I like the insurance of him

Mary Kay Cabot
@MaryKayCabot
·
39s
#Browns Joe Flacco is signing with the Browns practice squad, which was the plan when he left here on Friday.

Smart. Get him up to speed and then move PJ Walker to the PS.

If DTR falls to pieces, start Flacco.

I see no downside. He could certainly help on the sideline when DW is recuperating from surgery.

I agree... PJ to the PS, get Joe up to speed for the stretch run

Adam Schefter
@AdamSchefter
Former Ravens’ QB and Super Bowl MVP Joe Flacco is signing with the Cleveland Browns’ practice squad, per me and
@FieldYates
. It is expected that Flacco will get promoted to active roster. Flacco will give the Browns added QB depth in light of Deshaun Watson’s season-ending shoulder injury.

he’s insurance and might even be a starter in a week or three. He brings a deep ball threat, even if he is 38.

Let’s not be silly. Get him up to speed on the PS but keep PJ active. At least until there is no chance we’re going to the big dance. You never know when you’ll need that third QB and PJ could use all the game exposure he can get. Even if it’s riding pine. And if we don’t have room on the 53, make him dress in civi’s and stand on the sideline.

If DW is unable to be on the sidelines due to his surgery and rehab, Flacco should be on the 53 to have that experienced veteran input for DTR. DTR said in his presser how much he relied on Watson's input during today's game.

We’ll see. I think Flacco might work out. DTR drove us down for the W today but he is still a rookie.

I get that. I’m saying if we can reasonably keep all three active, do it. Our QB room is a later round rookie, a turnover machine convinced he’s Joe Montana and Mike Vick’s baby, and a QB on Geritol. Meanwhile, with some luck, we make the play offs with a D that could take us all the way. I want all three active. If it’s possible.

At this point, we’re not sure if we put all three in one uniform that there would be enough talent and gas to get it done. So short of Flacco looking like his prime, we don’t have a clue if any of them can fill in consistently for DW. DTR did enough today, but we will need to take more chances in the games left. We have no idea what that will look like. We know PJ is a mess, but we can win with him as a last resort. And will Flacco even look like he belongs? I have no idea how old he is now, but he has to be getting up there for QBs.

Eventually, teams will figure out DTR. Hopefully, by that time, Flacco will be ready.

No thank you.

Wow, just looked it up. Flacco is 38 and had limited action with the Jets last year. I have no idea what this will look like, but at this point, I hope they hit the lotto on DTR.

The Jets simply overused Flacco IIRC ... he was throwing 50-60 times a game at age 37 (and taking a beating)

He was sharper in the beginning of the season

I totally get the signing and I’m down for moving him up and PJ down when the time’s right but ya gotta think if Flacco is strapping on his helmet and running onto the field things have probably gotten pretty dire. It’s a sad state of affairs that he’s the best option but it is what it is. He wasn’t very good with the Jets, which I saw way more of than I’d like to admit living in NJ. I can remember friends screaming “throw the damn ball already Flacco!!!!” Haha. He was a sack muncher, especially last year.
Well, he’s ours now. Hopefully he’s born anew! Go Browns!

Great signing. Proven vet who has beatup on the Browns in his career. I'd like to see him get up to speed and start sooner than later. I think he has just enough in the tank to lead us to the playoffs. Throws some of the prettiest looking deep balls.

Time to put the PJ Walker experiment to bed.

Keep me honest here folks, but my understanding is that because we elevated PJ 3x to the active roster we would have to waive him to get him back on PS.

I think this is the case, but I get confused too

dude, ... ... dude the proverbial pistol is still luke warm from today's matchup,
telling on how they, somebody must have felt about today's game.

Wow.
... hang on, is this the first of April? ... did they 'really?

No one will want Walker

First QB to win Super Bowl MVP on both the Ravens & Browns? :-P

On the NFL Network this morning, Kyle Brandt said that everyone is sold out of Flacco Browns jerseys, he couldn't find one anywhere, lol.

haha unbelievable

I really hope this is to be DTRs backup. I think that's a great move if so. If we are asking DTR to hold down the fort until Flacco is ready I don't like it.

Ride with DTR unless he absolutely collapses. I think he's only going to get better.

Stef called a brilliant game yesterday to protect and develop his QB while securing the win. He panicked a little after Warren's long run and after the score was tied and got pass happy but for the most part he called a great game. With this defense we have the luxury to continue to do this while developing the kid for the future. Stay on this track.

He delivered a game winning drive yesterday and I've read calls for Flacco to start on here. Say what? Hope the Browns aren't thinking the same.

I thought we had a really nice offensive plan yesterday too ... our first few drives flipped the field, which led to points .. and then he recognized in the end something about attacking them out of empty formation ... the passes to Njoku and Cooper put Pittsburgh in a bind and won us the game

Keep DTR as the starter hopefully is the plan, unless as you say he fails miserably

It seems that's how they handled the Walker situation, let him play as he won

Then took the opportunity to put DTR back in as the starter

The players on both sides of the ball talk highly of DTR

Pit brought up a good point about Flacco being a good mentor to DTR due to the different styles of play

Hopefully DW can be on the sidelines to help DTR for a few games and Flacco can learn from DW on the sidelines on how to help with game making decisisions with DTR's playing style

GM mentioned how yesterdays game resembled the Cardiac kids

Fun days, lets hope DTR Hopkins and the Defense can keep the wins coming

I like this signing. Flacco seems like he’d be a great mentor to a few guys on this team. Guy has won a superbowl and knows this game inside out.

I don't believe Watson will be on the sidelines now for a few weeks. he is scheduled to have surgery this week in LA. I heard the plan is for the Browns to visit him during the week they are in LA preparing for the Rams.

I don't mind the move. I don't think we will be asking much from Flacco. But I do wish we would have at least looked at RGIII. I was impressed with his leadership and playing hurt when he was here last time. His style of play is closer to DTR's. Also add that he was a huge help to Lamar Jackson in his time in B'more. I don't know how he is physically....according RGIII he can still run a 4.3...lol...regardless, he is probably fast enough...lol. Also according to his own words, he is more than willing to take the clipbook and help DTR.

But I am just fine with the Flacco move. We can see the game calling moving back to the run heavy 12 and 13 personnel to help DTR....and we did the same for Brissett so not overly worried about Flacco if he has to play.

I did not know that

Thanks for that information

Hope it goes well and he recovers fully

I had hoped they would sign a veteran. The Browns needed it. Their O managed a whopping 13 points yesterday. That's not going to get you where you need to go.

You're on a run of putting out great posts on here. Couldn't agree more.

Dating back to when I signed up on the board.

It's easy when you're "always right".

Am I right?

Yes.

I feel his pain.

Adam Schefter
@AdamSchefter
Browns officially signed QB Joe Flacco to their practice squad.

The correct answer was "always". 👊

Not many will agree with me but I see Flacco as our most realistic chance to get to the SB. I don't see DTR doing it, I don't see P.J. doing it. All Flacco needs to do is hand the ball off, make the occasional deep/intermediate throw to keep a defence honest and not make too many mistakes.
Now, y'all tell me I'm crazy.

You’re crazy.

but you might be right.

I certainly agree with you there.

But it just may be a lunatic we're looking for?

oh fate, turn out the lights

Tony Grossi
@TonyGrossi
·
22m
Per source, Browns were not only interested in Joe Flacco's arm strength in workout, they tested his mobility, and were pleased with what they saw. He won't be running bootlegs if he plays, however.

I remember the Jets game last year and the 2 tds in the final 2 minutes to win the game for the Jets.

Yikes. That is a painful memory. Flacco had it that day.

DTR should still start

yes he is

This week.....

Lmao because I just came back to this page 90 minutes later and those exact words were ringing in my head as I read them in your post. Been singing the song in my head or out loud since my first post.

I think DTR is the guy, at least until it looks to be above his pay grade, if it does. I don't think the team wants a QB merry-go-round. Flacco is a good back-up and a guy we can start if DTR gets hurt or starts to stink up the joint.

I think DTR plays this week and I think they will assess week to week. I don't think the staff are counting on DTR being the guy in the playoffs.. he's got a ton of work to do on just the basics, then you ramp up the pressure to perform.. he was pretty bad yesterday as attributing to his 54 PFF rating. I think everyone hopes he catches fire and become the next Purdy but the chances are pretty small. I think its going to come down to two things, how fast Flacco gets up to speed and how fast DTR can get comfortable and start moving the offense more. The more tape teams get these next few games, the less those fastball only throws are going to work before we start getting into Walker turnover territory, he had like 4 close calls on top of the one that was. I think the other part of it is obviously staying healthy, I legit cringed when I saw him out there blocking on the edge for a run play.. i'm like WTF are you doing. I expect KS to open the playbook up a little and maybe get the TE's involved in the middle of the field. I just worry these fastballs in that area will bounce off hands and become turnovers. I think its just compensating for the mental issue he's probably is having about throwing into NFL windows and as he gets reps it will slow down for him and he can throw with more anticipation. But the big knock on him coming out was he doesn't always make the best decision and he lacks vision to see defenders and to throw with anticipation.. So we will see.. But make no mistake, Flacco was brought in with sole purpose of being that steady hand in the playoffs.

Exactly. I feel our FO is making the right moves. They probably realize a mistake was made not having a better back-up QB and now they're remedying the situation.

I disagree. I think Flacco is an insurance policy. I believe DTR will be the starter unless he does not perform well or gets injured. Flacco is the veteran that will help guide him on the sidelines. I see so much improvement in DTR's game vs the Ravens game earlier this year and I believe he will continue to improve week in and week out. His receivers did not help him out yesterday with the dropsies. I think that will also improve as they get more comfortable catch passes from him.

So you think a pocket passer style QB was brought in to mentor a 5th round draft pick who plays an entire different style of QB?

No, but a qb with over a decade of experience reading opposing defenses, managing game situations, keeping emotions in check and winning a Super Bowl might help.

I agree with you up until what you said about playoffs. I think it's an honest "TBD" at this point. To your point, he's gotta show a whole bunch more than he did yesterday but they can't hold it against him that that was his first start (I'm choosing to ignore the Ravens game when he had a whole 3 hour heads up). He can show gradual progress with additional starts, or he can regress as teams get tape on him. Only time will tell.

As pedestrian as his game was yesterday, I think it still did a LOT to explain the Ravens game, as well as to argue for his receiving additional snaps.

You're right and probably more so on the field than on the sideline.

I think practice squad player/coaches will happen more often.



Flacco is way beyond his prime. However, his brain is probably still NFL-ready and can allow him to take the next steps into coaching while on the PS.

Still have Glass Houses on vinyl, dawg, 43 years old.

Mentoring doesn't mean he coaches the way he plays. It's more about reading defenses, what he might expect to see on the next series. The style of play has little impact on that.

If Joe has to start this season - and he might have to- then wins the game, he’d be the fourth QB to win for the Browns THIS season. 4

Yeah obviously perfect scenario DTR catches fire and he starts to put it together as we roll into the playoffs. but remember, this FO loves them some analytics. so they know the numbers and probability that happens. Thats why I think it was Flacco and not one of the other options like mccoy. Flacco can come in and play at any time and probably be successful enough and his extensive playoff experience and playing in the elements this time of year will be huge. DTR is from SC and played in Cali.. I fully expect that he would struggle if we made a deep run or are playing to try to make the playoffs in December. We have 3 game stretch coming up against 2 good teams sandwiching a trap game against LA. We will be underdogs 2 out of the 3. we wil see how much patience they have. I hope he does well.. but hes got to get alot better quickly down the stretch here. I think alot of the drops sunday were because receivers not used to getting fastballs at every angle and route.. it will take some adjustment. DA syndrome.

I'm slowly coming around to the idea that DTR doesn't have to "catch fire". He just has to "do his job". I doubt Stefanski is chomping at the bit to completely open up the playbook with the quarterback room being what it is now. DTR just has to take care of the football and help the offense not grind to a halt.

PJ isn't starting anymore because he showed that he's not always great at taking care of the football.

While these games are going to take years off of our lives, we've shown we can win with QB play like we saw Sunday. I'd be surprised if there's a "lightbulb moment" for DTR. I think it's more likely he begins to regress as there is more tape. But in the meantime, we can hope for slow and steady improvement as our defense, playcalling, and special teams carries us.

DTR is only going to get better.

He's got the work ethic, talent, and belief from his teammates. Did you see all the team that came up to him after the game? They saw all week what he put in to it, how much it means to him, and his ability. In his presser he talked about getting back to work on Monday. This isn't baby carrots!

Watson will be hurt at various times over the next three seasons. It's just the way he plays. DTR will continue to get better and will be Watson's long-term successor.

Don't get caught up in where he was drafted.

And remember the Riz is always right.

One compliment and now you're referring to yourself in the third person. You went 0-100 just like THAT.


All kidding aside, I'm not going to let myself get too excited over DTR. He's proven that the Ravens game can be chalked up to circumstance. It will be fun/interesting to see how he progresses with additional starts.

The Riz is always right goes back a long way before your post.

Just digging it out for fun.

I think people get muddled with a win. I think we all can agree Pickett is a horrible QB.. guess who had a worse rating this week.. yep.. DTR. So everyone saying Oh he's going to get better or he just needs time.. thats the hope, not the fact. Truth is noone knows how he's going to play week to week.. he was a 5th round pick because he has alot of holes to his game. So simply we hope for the best (DTR plays well enough to win), and plan for the worst (bring in a SB winning QB with tons of experience) I think the thing that remains to be seen is what they end up doing.. we go out next week and only score 13 points, I think you see Flacco against LA. I also thing KS will keep adjusting the gameplan the more he sees what DTR can and can't do. The fact we are 7-3 with all that has happened to us from injury standpoint is crazy, anything more at this point is gravy.

I agree. He did better. He didn't turn the ball over. I know the stats say so, but I discount balls tipped by our receiver. He still has a way to go...a long way.

You sound like an old man sitting next to me, making love to his tonic and gin…

Hope that helped get the other tune out of your brain.

Pickett is an ESTABLISHED horrible QB. DTR has a lot working against him right now (mostly lack of experience/snaps... hell, he's probably still getting into the swing of things being the starter in practice). IMO, there's enough there to give him more opportunities. Not to say any of the upcoming games are gimme's, but we're definitely through the tougher part of our schedule. Given what he was able to do (and able to NOT do) vs Pittsburgh's D, as long as he doesn't regress we should continue to stack wins barring anything crazy.

Flacco is NOT the future. He’s here primarily because PJ is a turnover machine. And I think unless DTR shows he can’t be competitive, he’s the starter until DW is back. This is such a weird season, us winning and all, yet injuries have taken a toll and we are still fighting like hell. This never happens here.

Oh? So quick with a joke? You just light up that smoke... and you'll have me feeling alright. (Hendrick's Neptunia FTW)

Like him or not at this point, DTR seems to be working hard at his craft. Certainly green and needs to polish his game. I am pulling for him, and the chemistry and attitude seem genuine to me. Like him or not, we all would have to admit he has some upside while the jury is out. Go, Browns! Unleash the Elf!

Was never a fan of Flacco... but we needed a vet... would not be surprised to see him starting against the Rams... but we'll see... hoping DTR keeps improving and Flacco is just insurance... but if we can get good QB play there's no reason we can't take the division...

I have mixed feelings.

I guess it boils down to how much can DTR really improve in a few games?

One also has to consider that we are a few games away from being able to talk about playoffs. Once that happens the question is would you rather go with the rookie in the playoffs or the experienced guy who has won in the playoffs?

Naturally we have to see how everybody progresses, but all things being equal, I lean towards the experienced guy.

Again, we might be getting ahead of ourselves with playoff talk. We still have 6 games to navigate. Lot's can happen in 6 games. November helps set the playoff foundation. December is when you punch the ticket.

Flacco was a good add. He is a safety valve.

He is just what you want. Experience and a slow heart beat. He will not be overwhelmed by pressure.

However, DTR has been with the team all year. He has that one element that Flacco does not have - mobility.

KS has shown a lot of different looks. Pistol, OL fullback, direct snap, Bryant under center. DTR can be a threat as a runner.

Opposing teams do not have much tape to look at on DTR. His mobility can be used in RPO's, draws, fake reverses etc.

Some of the rollouts KS did with Baker can put DTR in single read with run options.

There is more that can ne done to confuse teams because they do not know DTR.

Flacco provides a backup plan B. Pocket passer and a guy who can read defenses. Flacco has a great arm. Make no mistake about that.

If we are behind two scores late Flacco can run a two minute passing drill to get chunk plays. He is a perfect guy to have in your back pocket.

when looking at DTR, again, I have to go back and look at the gameplan. Let's not discount the Steeler's D in that game. They adjusted in the second half and jumped on everything short. Don't think other teams won't do the same. BUT, The gameplan in place protected 3 players on O. Obviously the young QB...But also LT and RT...and really the RT. Getting the ball out quick did 2 things. It made things simpler for DTR, and allowed him to put the game in the hands of his playmakers and not on his own shoulders. And he quick throws meant that Watt and Highsmith would have their pass rush negated a bit. Deeper routes means more time in the pocket for the play to develop meaning more time/chances for Watt to wreck plays. I also point to he final series when Jones played the entire series....he negated Watt and We were able to push the ball a little more. My point being...is that within the confines of the gameplan. DTR played pretty well. Despite the straight numbers. His is definitely one of those where the stats and analytics does not tell the whole story. DTR still has a lot of growth. OBVIOUSLY and both the eyes and the analytics will point some of that out. I, however, did not see anything that wasn't fixable.

I expect this weeks plan will still be similar in one way. Get the ball into the playmakers hands and don't put the game on DTR's shoulders. But each gameplan has been entirely different from game to game. More so this year than any we have seen thus far from the Browns. Do they push the ball more...possibly...with the suspension upheld for the Denver Safety...and the Denver D as a whole is just barely ahead of Myles Garretts on sacks...so they are not really known for sacking the QB. Meaning we may be able to give DTR more options. What they are known for is turnovers. Expect a gameplan that opens up "a little"....especially if Jones plays the whole game.

JMO

I said earlier somewhere. It’s insane not to have a viable backup QB. Not sure how viable Jflacco is but considering how often our QB’s go down to injury, Flacco will do for now.

I think we are going to see how DTR plays the next two weeks. If he crashes and burns, Flacco will start against the Jags, Bears, Texans, etc

Yep. Definitely a two week proposition. Unless he looks like Kenny Pickett this week (mostly joking).

And the odds that a fifth round rookie QB pick is the future is highly unlikely as well. The Browns aren't playing for the future right now. They're playing for right now. If this team believes in analytics in any way, shape or form, they're not making the decision of who will be starting at QB based on future seasons of a fifth round rookie. Teams in the building process and with bad records make those types of decisions at this point in the season. Watson will be back and healthy next season. That's what they see as the future of the QB position in Cleveland.

I have no idea how this will all work out as it pertains to which QB will be starting for the rest of the season. But that decision won't be based on "the future". It will be based on who gives the Browns the best chance to win now and which QB has the best odds to lead this team to the SB. As it should be.

I believe the Browns are banking on DTR having a successful end of the season. They may turn a fifth-round pick into a third or second in the coming years.

It is no secret AP and KS can produce results at the QB position. Turning DTR into a respectful QB would put a feather in their cap!

A few years ago, I was lamenting another Browns loss and had a Broncos game on. I watched for a few series and I have to say, I had never seen a worse looking QB than Joe Flacco. Flacco was "playing" for the Broncos.

It was like he was moving in slow motion and just mailied it in.

All I see here is a stopgap QB whisperer on the 52.

yeah he may just be here as a vet voice while Watson is gone

I take it you missed last years Browns/Jets game then.

I think there's a big difference in banking on something and hoping for something. I'm sure we're all hoping he does well. What could be better? But banking on something with the type of odds you have of a fifth round rookie QB being successful in that rookie year isn't something smart gamblers do. That's why they signed Flacco. Because while you're going to try it and hope for the best, banking on it would be foolish.

I take it you missed how incompetent our defensive, special teams and defensive coordinator was.

The Browns had held them to 14 points through the first three quarters of that game. Flacco rallied the Jets to score 17 points in that fourth quarter. But never mind all of that, right?

Yea, that really impressed me. No other NFL defense was that putrid last year. Thanks for playing. We have some parting gifts for you.

I wouldn't be surprised to see him starting against the Rams... I think Peen said it well.. if you're thinking playoffs, it makes more sense to have a superbowl winning vets.... I like DTR... but having a rookie starting in the playoffs is nerve wracking... unless you've got someone playing like CJ stroud, I'd rather have an aging vet who has been there before...

Flacco is 3-14 n his last 17 starts. Not exactly playoff winning football.

Pluto reported Browns want to start DTR the rest of the way. Obviously that's up to DTR and how he plays, but I don't think there is a bigger plan to start Flacco, and I think him giving the team a better chance to win is being overrated. Don't forget the guy is a statue.

Watson just had surgery and will probably not be on the sidelines. DTR needs Flacco for support.

And DTR has a QBR rating of 49 with 4 INTs, 0 TDs, and a 55% complete percentage... I hope the kid plays well, but I'd have him on a short leash...

His first start as rookie he had no first team reps and found out he was starting an hour before the game.

His second game they purposely called the game conservatively against a team and coach who are notoriously hell on rookie QBs. Oh, and he led a game winning drive.

But give me the stats again.

Sure... against the steelers he had 165 yards an INT and no TDs... QBR of 54%.... I get that he had "the game winning drive'... but lets not pretend that he was good during the steelers game... the defense won that game...

I've heard people say "I don't want to ruin DTR's confidence by having a short leash" ... my response is "we have no time to be patient in the middle of a division/playoff race"

We need to start whoever gives us the best chance to NOT lose

That’s fine, however DTR is starting unless there’s an injury or DTR just bombs. DTR also faced two of the top defenses in the league.

Flacco is 38 years old, played in 12 total games in the past 3 years. He’s immobile. We are starting second or third string OTs. While the line has been good, their legs (the 3 QBs) have extended plays/drives at key times. We had a chance to pick Flacco up this year and we chose PJ Walker instead.

I assume he still has a strong arm and should still be able to move an offense. Stef being the coach I feel he can still get something out of him, if needed.

I don't disagree.

I don't think there is a grand plan to start Flacco. Naturally it all depends on how DTR plays but in my old eyes, he has to improve quite a bit to make me comfortable to think he can lead a team through the playoffs. Maybe even get us to the playoffs. We still need to win 3-4 games to lock that up.

That said, I might feel better about Flacco at this point, but I don't know if he has what it takes anymore. The only thing I know is that Flacco has a decided edge in experience.

Tomlin wishes the Steelers would have signed him first… he’s got that going for him.

We have played ten games.

The trade deadline has passed.

What were our options? We need to win three or four games to get into the playoffs. DTR and PJ Walker are the quarterbacks in the qb room.

Flacco has been in the NFL for fifteen years. He can step into any situation with a slow heartbeat. He is not going to rattle.

When or if he plays will be determined by how DTR plays.

I would rather have Flacco as the backup than PJ. We can run. We have a solid offensive line. Flacco can read a defense. If he is protected; he can spin it.

It is not like at this time of year you call 911 and ask for a quarterback to be sent.

Ab always has plans A, B, C, and D in place.

DTR is Plan A in this case
Plan B is either PJ or Flacco with the other being plan C
Plan D...no clue but rest assured AB already has one if we lose one of those three guys.

The Steelers defense is currently ranked 27th.

https://www.foxsports.com/articles/nfl/2023-nfl-defense-rankings-team-pass-and-rush-stats

The memories of years gone by aren't the facts of today. So if you wish to be accurate DTR managed to lead the O to scoring 13 points against the 27th ranked defense in the NFL while passing for 24 of 43, 165 yards an INT and no TDs with a QBR of 54.

I have no problem with people stating what he did but not stating what he didn't do.

What DTR did, aside from one tipped pass, is he managed the game and didn't lose it for us. He didn't put points on the board for the other team, and he got some time in the saddle against a defense that is notorious for the pressure they bring.

Playing that game while minimizing mistakes and doing just enough to keep us in it and not lose it is pretty much EXACTLY what we need to start with. Our QBs have been killing us all year by scoring for the other team, so when Watson went down, what we needed more than anything is a game-manager that won't give points away. He did that well enough and it is something to grow on and this team, with this defense, can absolutely work with that. As long as he keeps progressing and minimizes mistakes, there's no reason for Flacco to be anything more than a backup.

He is stopgap. Nobody thinks he will be here after this year. He is here as a stopgap back-up QB.

People don't need to compare Flacco to himself while he was a legit starter. People need to compare him to DTR here and now.

Right now DTR isn't playing for the future. He is playing for the next game. His ceiling doesn't matter the rest of this year. Are we trying to get in to the playoffs and win games once there or trying to develop a back-up??

At this point we need to be concered with floors with these QB's. I don't give a darn about the ceiling the rest of this season.

DTR has really only played in 2 games.

SEA he had 1 pass attempt

SF he didn't play.
TEN he didn't play.
BAL he was told 30 mins with 0 prep that he was going to play. So, it's not worth looking at that game.

I think we will give him Den and Rams to decide if we can roll with him or not. If we can't, Flacco will get pulled up.

Question...



Can't another NFL team claim Flacco? He's only on our practice squad.


Practice squad players are free to sign with other NFL teams, but they have to be signed to the 53-man active roster of the acquiring team. A practice squad player cannot be signed to another practice squad unless he is first released or waived.

Sorry but noone should hold that Broncos season against flacco, they had a ton of issues, and he played well at his last stop last year and if not for them signing rodgers would probably be the starter. I agree that its DTR's job to lose, but like I said before, people have blinders on how bad he was in the second half that game.. his longest pass play was the last drive for 15 yards...... thats not going to do much, because guess what Denver going to do with their good secondary.. yeah they are going to sit on everything short just like Pittsburgh showed. This week I think is going to tell us more about stefanski thatn DTR.. how does stefanski manage a QB thats green, has obvious flaws, and still find a way to get up and down the field. I think that answer has to be using the run to setup the pass.. even when it appears it isn't working, sticking with it, make that defense run sideline to sideline, then hit them with the PA. It would be great if we had good TE's because they could be his best weapon right now. I just hope they don't make him run more than he has to and by no means should he be out on the edge trying to block a running play. That was one of the dumbest things I've ever seen. I don't like when Watson was doing it and I liked it even less when the guy as thick as a piece of paper was doing it. Just a side note, did anyone see the video of flacco from practice with the other QB's..lol, looked like flacco had his kids in gear and they were going through practice with the team. I know they say DTR is 6'2, but I don't know if I buy that, like mayfield being 6', but Flacco is a big dude out there. I know he's 6'6/245 so yeah, he may be a "statue" which actually isnt' true, he's been shown to be mobile like brady/manning mobile, they can move around and still look downfield, and at 245 lbs, its like big ben trying to get them down. I dont know whats going to happen, but this is first time since probably 2007 I've let myself get excited about where we can go.. It just sucks because you think of all the injuries and if we still had even a healthy Chubb/Watson how much different this team would look.

I understand what he did do. I also understand what he didn't do. I'm sure I can speak for everyone when I say that I hope the kid develops into a good QB. But the fact is he's going to have to get a lot better quickly. Unless of course you think the Browns holding their opponents to 10 points is going to be the common theme from here on out? There aren't enough Kenny Pickett's to go around for that to happen.

And despite the hyperbole surround the Steeler defense, that's not who they are this year.

This my thought as well.. I think we can't wait too long if the results are meh, you have to try something else. Thats not to say Flacco could come out and be straight trash then you go back to DTR. Its not a great position and its caused mostly by Berry not doing more at the deadline and in preseason. But I will say he atleast recognized it now and went and got probably the best option available.

The rest of the season will depend on three things ...

1. Stefanski's handling of the QB position.
2. The play of the QB.
3. Health of Ward.

I think #3 might be a bigger deal than #1 and #2 honestly. The Browns have weathered the injuries to date. Not sure how much longer that can last.

I think depends if Thornhill comes back or not, but we are down like 4 players in the secondary and Denver has a nice group of WR

Just read a great analogy on the OBR boards for Ward...Bob Sanders.

Dominant when healthy, always throwing themselves around and getting hurt.

Pretty spot on.

Have been very unimpressed with Thornhill. Very similar arc to JJ3 in my opinion. Hope he can give the team something down the stretch. Guy hasn't made one nice play that I can recall, which is truly remarkable considering he has the best front four in the game. The best I can describe him is non-descript.

he def. isn't what we thought, but we've had alot worse.. see JJJ, both Delpit and Thornhill pretty close in PFF grade but McLeod was actually our best performing safety, so him going down with Ward hurts even more.. So we need Thornhill just so we don't have hickman and bell as the safeties.

Technically, yes. However, another team cannot simply tell him he's signing with them, he has to agree to it. I don't see that happening.

As others have already posted: ride DTR until the end of the season. (If for no other reason than his mobility, his familiarity with the offense and he might well be our #2 going into next season.) I like the Flacco signing, but he won't be around next year. Good arm but sitting duck.

IMO, we might squeak into the wildcard, but Flacco will be demolished within two weeks before that. Stifle Ford and Hunt, then end of 2023 story.

As I've posted before: as goes our D, so goes our season.

Unless DTR gets injured or completely implodes in the next couple of games, why not?

Flacco will give us no better chance in the last stretch (except as a serviceable and smart back-up).

Once Watson was out for the season, everyone knew it would be on Schwartz and the relative health of the D.

If KS wants to go all in on the pocket passer and the reliability of our #2WR, #3WR and Njoku in December and their dependability (and I am a Njoku fan), then so be it. But that would be a mistake, imo.

Let the kid show what he's got, let the chips fall and see it through. Playoffs - maybe? But we're not getting to the AFC Championship much less the SB. See how DTR does in leading this team beyond the wildcard round. Big IF. If nothing else, then trade bait.

Does anyone really think that Flacco will put up more points than DTR? Ride DTR until the end.

On to Denver. Go Browns.

If the Steelers game is any indication of how many points DTR can put on the board, then yes I "really think that Flacco will put up more points than DTR."

But whether DTR becomes more productive than that remains to be seen. The Browns just can't wait too log to find out if they want to get into the playoffs.

I’d bet my pension that Flacco could put up more points than DTR consistently. You really doubt a Super Bowl mvp, in a passing league designed to protect the qb, who’s thrown for 40k yards and 230+ tds wouldn’t be able to outperform a 5th round rookie who’s hasn’t thrown For 300 yards total yet and has zero tds, 4 ints and has a sub 30 qbr. Add in the fact that his yards per pass is well below the average ypc of an nfl running back. I get wanting him to do well but let’s not pretend he’s given any indicator that things are clicking. If they we just going to ride him out the season we would have just a vet camp arm. We didn’t do that, we got a proven playoff qb. That tells me the FO isn’t going to hesitate to move to flacco if DTR doesn’t start playing better

I would guess that the FO views it as a race between the two. Can DTR get the hang of it enough to keep us from switching to Flacco before Flacco can get the offense and terminology down.
There's also a lot to be said for DTR being a guy that has been here all year; he's one of the team; he's paid his dues alongside everyone else all season. Flacco is a new guy that has to learn everything, and everyone, and fit in while coming into things more than half way through the season. It might not play well if the FO gets too trigger happy on yanking DTR.

Not having a "nice" play as you describe it isn't necessarily a bad thing. I haven't noticed any "bad' plays either. Safety is the last line of defense so to speak. If the ball isn't getting to that last line of defense, he isn't going to have many "nice" plays.

on the flip side, DTR has been here the whole year and still looks like that..lol. I would also say a guy like Flacco won't need much time at all to get the terminology down, and the defenses are the same defenses he's seen for 10+ years, the key will be how fast he develops chemistry with the WR, same goes for DTR, he was throwing behind, above, in the ground off their facemask the whole game.. So he has his own chemistry to work on with the receivers too, so yeah it could be a race to who gets there faster.

I get what you're saying, but when you're playing with the practice squad it's doing nothing to help build chemistry with the starters. Sure it's learning the plays and the play book, but Flacco has been in different systems where he has had to adapt so I don't see that as being as big of an obstacle as some might. I saw what Dobbs was able to accomplish in a matter of days when he went to Minnesota and he has a fraction of the experience Flacco does.

I don't think the entire, " been here all year; he's one of the team; he's paid his dues alongside everyone else all season" matters. These players want to win. They want to be in the playoffs. They want the QB that gives them the best chance to accomplish those things under center on game day. DTR hasn't been beside the starters all year. He's been working with the practice squad until just a couple of short weeks ago. If anything I would suppose that the starters respect the accomplishments and abilities of Flacco.

I'm all for giving Flacco a couple of weeks to get acclimated before the discussion seriously begins on which QB is the starter. But unless DTR improves a lot over the next couple of weeks, the Browns simply can't risk missing the playoffs over sentiment.

Our O, right now, needs a quarterback who can chuck the football down the field. P.J. and DTR aren’t that guy right now. Perhaps DTR will improve but Joe can distribute the pigskin.

Flacco's stats for the last three seasons when he was 35,36, and 37 years old. He is now 38 and has not played in 10 1/2 months.

last 3 seasons
12 games
comp percentage 57%
yards 2249 which is 187 yards per game.
TD's 14
Int's 6
11 rushes for 33 yards.
Won 1 game and lost 11.



QB rating for those 12 games

2022 36.1 QBR
2021 49.5 QBR
2020 50.3 QBR

Flacco's chance of leading us to a Superbowl at this stage of his career is NOT better than our chances with DTR. DTR will still improve and he can run. Flacco at his age will regress from what he was the last 3 years and he can't run.

But he only put up 13 points against the Steelers in his second start.

And that's all we have to go on.

This was an error on my part about the rankings. My apologies.



Though unless i’m reading it wrong, Pitt was ranked #10 last year for the memories comment. As for the ranking this year, it is a little skewed as they didn’t have Cam Heyward a good portion of the season.

While I don't disagree their D is hampered by not having Heyward, this is the ranking of the D DTR played against. Maybe they will rank better next year with a healthy Heyward but hopefully we'll have watson starting against that D.

How long can we keep winning when we score one TD per game?

well, this is Flacco's team now

Guess who is starting in LA next week...

I don’t know. I’ll tell you once DTR goes through concussion protocol

I think it'll be Flacco in L.A.. DTR has already been confirmed to have failed the concussion test and has a concussion. Likely tough to pass out of the concussion protocol testing that quickly.

Also, it means he will not be able practice.

Not long. I usually don't go in the gameday chat but stopped in a few times yesterday. When we went down 14-0 I commented that we were now 5FG behind and it probably wasn't going to happen unless we scored some touchdowns.

DTR! DTR! DTR!...come on everybody, let me hear ya...I didn't think so.

I am confident 90% of this board has no idea what they are watching. Maybe the number is higher.

The whole anti-DTR thing on this board is really strange after a game where he lead a game winning drive and another where he was playing solid with a couple splash plays that show his ability and again getting crushed by drops.

But because he was drafted in the fifth round people have made up their minds. If this was Baker's rookie year and he had the same game against the Steelers with the game winning drive people would be claiming we finally had a franchise QB.

Before a lucky jet sweep to seal the game last night Lamar had lead his team to a grand total of 13 pts. They better get Matt Ryan and Carson Wentz in there asap for a playoff run.

This place is nuts.

LOL...I know what I am watching, and have no illusions of who DTR is. He can be a decent QB, but my deal is we are in a tight playoff battle and he isn't ready for that.

If he is our best chance, so be it. At this point I am 100% in favor of Flacco's experience. He may not have it, and that is that, but I am not interested in DTRs development and experience at this point. I'd like to see what Flacco has.

No doubt DTR's ceiling is higher than Flacco since Flacco has reached his and is on the way down. I am just not sure that DTRs ceiling will be higher than Flacco's level when he was younger. I do know that Flacco has the experience and DTR doesn't, and isn't going to gain the same level of experience over the next 2-3 games and he isn't going to gain it in those games.

I ask the question again, are we tring to develop a back-up QB or are we trying to win a Super Bowl?

DTR doesn't have the NFL body to play. the hit that took him out wasn't bad or dirty, but being 125lbs is what hurt him. But the reality is he's not ready, there are very few rookie QB's that get their teams to the playoffs and majority are one and done anyways, injury replacements fare even worse. Funny enough, the two most successful rookie QB's in the playoffs, Russell Wilson and Joe Flacco. But I think that talk is premature and unfortunately we have issues now where we are pretty much done for the season so at this point if DTR can play he should so we know what we have for next year.. this year is over. You don't come back from this amount of injuries

I 100% support and understand the argument that Flacco has more experience and may be the better choice at this juncture because of those reasons. I don't think that's the way it will turn out but I understand the argument.

But that's not the argument being made in some cases. There's an anti-DTR argument that he's not putting up points because he isn't good and will never be good. He's not putting up enough points for the Browns to be successful. In his 2nd and 3rd starts...one in which he lead a game winning drive.

Does that argument make any sense? Jackson and Herbert were locked in a 13-10 stalemate last night with under two minutes to go in the 4th quarter.

I would also ask people to watch the game again yesterday. Notice the extreme drop-off in play from DTR to PJ. DTR was actually reading the field, making throws, not taking sacks, and not turning the ball over. A couple of his throws were elite throws. He also read the field slowly and delivered the ball inaccurately at times. PJ dropped back, literally had no idea what was going on, ran into sacks, and basically gave the Browns no chance. How you don't walk away from that encouraged by DTRs performance I don't know.

People want Flacco, great. We are going to get him. I will be pulling for the Browns to win no matter what. But I don't necessarily agree he gives us the best chance to win even with DTRs inexperience.

I think next game will say a lot in terms of DTR and the remainder of the year.

Denver was daring/begging DTR to hit med/long passes from the first play of the game. Drops were bad and on the receivers, but DTR's placement was not great either. Couple that with a lack of touch and you get hard-to-catch balls. Not saying the drops were on DTR, simply saying his game was not good. If he's healthy then I'd love to see him bounce back vs Rams. If not... Flacco has now been in the building for a few weeks throwing to these receivers.

If so you are certainly on the 90+% side.


Drops happen on every team in the NFL. Nobody is "anti DTR". They are "pro Browns make the playoffs and compete in the playoffs". In case you missed it, those are not the same thing.





Yes, Lamar doesn't have a proven track record, far more W's than L's and playoff appearances that mean anything. It's like the exact same thing! When you sink to this level it's obvious the desperation has set in. DTR has potential. He may develop into a very good QB. But that isn't what he is yet and the playoffs are on the line. This isn't the situation you spend developing a QB.

I'm just wondering if DTR throws a ball that's really hard to catch, like DA did on his short passes. Even Cooper has dropped a few, and we've not seen that before DTR.

I think it’s more a case of DTR not being very good at finessing the ball yet. He seems to have one throwing speed; BULLET.

Good point, he rips them in there, but guys gotta catch the ball, too.
I’m not anti-DTR, and he wasn’t even that terrible and nor was he the biggest culprit in the loss, but bottom line is we can’t sustain wins when we’re scoring a TD every game.

If we could have caught the ball yesterday the game might have been different. We could have scored a little more. Hope our receivers understand that!!!

We were sloppy as hell, botched handoff, reverse that totally was laughable, pre-snap penalties, dropsies. In essence we played like garbage.
Even our punter couldn’t pin them deep, had an off-game with too many touchbacks (he does hammer it though).

yeah I'm def. not anti DTR, he is what he is, he's a 5th round rookie being thrust into service under the worst possible scenario, a brain dead playcaller and injuries everywhere and the expectation of getting to the playoffs. I don't wish that pressure on anyone, I think its detrimental to development . I want flacco because I think he's the guy that isn't going to get bothered by all that, has had the expectations of having to make plays to get to the playoffs and then be successful. Its about whats best for the team given all the extenuating circumstances to navigate, a seasoned vet is the best person to do that. DTR def. doesn't understand NFL windows yet or anticipation. He doesn't have great ball placement. Perfect example of this is the throw to cooper for the 2pt. Should cooper caught it, as WR1, yeah thats a play you want to see him make, but he was WIDE OPEN, there was no need for the 100mph fastball at his feet. Those are things he will learn and you want him to learn them, but right now it can't be at the expense of us winning ballgames.

That's a pretty good question. I wonder?

I think DTR throws a ball without much touch ... and seems to be slightly behind guys, which is awkward. The combo of the two is probably an issue.

I think he's shown some growth, but is still erratic

I'm not anti-DTR, but I'm not pro-DTR, either. Like you said, he is what he is. So far, that isn't much and he is not our best option even when healthy.
Before the game, I thought it was a race between Flacco & DTR to see if Flacco could get up-to-speed before DTR figured things out.... that race was over before DTR was knocked out of the game. He played poorly enough to lose the job. The fact that we looked marginally better and moved with more of a rhythm when Walker went in is all that needs to be said. Ready or not, we need to move forward with Flacco.





Watching the game, I kept saying to myself, and texting with my brothers, that he reminded me of Weeden with all of the low fastballs. I said Weeden, but I probably meant DA. They're all interchangeable to me at this stage, but the point was that he looked like whichever QB it was that was always throwing the ball 100 miles an hour and on a low, downward trajectory. I saw more balls thrown at knees and ankles than anything else, or so it felt while watching.

"The fact that we looked marginally better and moved with more of a rhythm when Walker went in is all that needs to be said."

wait, what????

Not the game I watched. Down 14-0, he led the team on 3 scoring drives to what should have tied the game - thanks Coop. Upon leaving the game concussed, PJ came in and did absolutely nothing and proved he belongs in the XFL, CFL, or the Lingerie League - anything but the NFL.

Maybe I should re-watch it (not going to), but I felt the offense was executing better as far as he goes (play calls were still stupid, and I never complain about those, and the receivers still dropped balls).

Agree all around.

If it was possible to have a candid conversation with players on the team, I'd bet the vast majority would rather see Flacco start.

Experience counts, especially at the QB position.

LOL The club and I named DA "Mr. Potato Cannon" because of the low screamers. Man must have hated worms. Some bad misses making easy ones look hard. Still a much better place than Flipper.

Look at the arm on that guy! I bet he can really throw a football!

DA went to the Pro Bowl.

The backup QB is always the most popular player of the fans.

No one knows what he looks like on the field.

There was a very noticeable difference between DTR and Walker. DTR looked like an NFL QB; Walker did not.

I agree. DTR led a couple really nice drives. His next step is learning how to finish these drives in the red zone.

Today KS will most likely name the starter.

Given the shot that DTR took. I don't think he should start even if he clears concussion protocol.

Trying to envision Flacco in the Browns offense requires a little speculation.

What we know is he lacks mobility. He is a pocket passer. That maybe a good thing. Dewand Jones is already good in pass protection. Christian has done a good job in place of Wills.

Flacco is predictable. He will stay in the pocket moving on only a little. He is accurate. If the receivers run precise routes. He can throw with anticipation.

If the run game can be efficient. Flacco can go under center and we can go back to play action. The OL will know that in pass protection the qb will be in the pocket and then it becomes all about getting the ball out.

In play action the routes are timed to the qb drop. Cooper runs great routes. If Flacco can show some chemistry with Cooper in practice. It should translate to the field.

I like Tillmans size. He seems to be the type to win on the 50/50 balls.

I am in favor of starting Flacco. Give DTR a week to recover and learn. See how Flacco looks. We can always go back to DTR. He is to young to worry about his confidence etc. He was not expected to play this year at all.

So, yes I want Flacco to start this week.

Do not disagree here comparing the two. But DTR still needs plenty of seasoning. Not sure we have time for that with the remaining games for a playoffs push.

That said, I think DTR not being cleared yet paves the way for Flacco to start. After this week, I think we'll get a sense of who we're are going to stick with to ride out the season and not look back--- Flacco or DTR (if both are healthy).

and threw 3 picks in that game, LOL, if I recall.

So did Tyler Huntley and Andy Dalton... it isn't exactly an endorsement, but more a case of "everybody that earned it declined to attend".

haha honestly this might be correct

Added to GameDay Thread

Only 1.


YDS ATT CMPSK/YDS INT RT
D.Anderson 103 26 10 2/11 1 34.6

He also cost us a playoff spot with a dreadful game at Cinci, in a clinching game.

He's going to come with a raft of other issues that are different than PJ and DTR - mobility being the single biggest and obvious challenge/difference. But in terms of experience, not being over whelmed, not panicking - there should be a huge increase in competency. All we can do is hope he and the result isn't worse than PJ because I don't feel we have any chance with PJ. And even if DTR is healthy - I'd certainly look to see if Joe can still manage a game ok. I think defences are more likely to respect deeper pass attempts with JF than either other option. And by deeper passes I mean defenses won't be keying all game on 8 yards and under.

Flacco avoids getting sacks by getting the ball out quick

The receivers need to get downfield and open fast

Or you may just be seeing more of those 8 yard and shorter passes

Isn't the "getting the ball out quick" thing largely erased by only having a couple week in the offense and getting limited time with your receivers?

The best way to avoid sacks...RUN THE BALL..especially on early downs. Try to keep the offense ahead of the down and distance game..in other words, focus on making first downs.

Use the jumbo package on 1st down in an attempt to make positive yardage on 1st down. Hopefully Stefanski has a package of passing plays out of the jumbo package. When the Rams defense adjusts to stop the run take advantage with quick passes that might turn into YACS.

If the Browns OLine is able to control the line of scrimmage and give Flacco the time needed to throw deep, try to burn the Rams defensive backfield on deeper passes.

I'm not saying use "jumbo package" exclusively..but as long as the running game can produce positive yardage and keep Flacco out of 'must pass' situations...don't get pass happy...but if the Oline can protect Flacco, don't be afraid to go with deeper passes when we have an advantage.

The key to winning...MAKING FIRST DOWNS...the game is played 10yds at a time. The key to making those 10yds at a time 'the offensive line'.

That all depends on how quickly he adapts. Having been in different systems one would hope he has a quick response. I mean I doubt the Browns run any plays he hasn't ran in other O's. If anything a few of them may be slightly different and the verbiage is different.

A player in the concusson protocol cannot practice. I don't know if that includes working on the side or not, though.

I have no idea if this is some sign of things to come but the timing of it I do find a bit curious......

Alex Van Pelt feels 'a lot left in that tank' with Joe Flacco if Browns need QB to start

LOS ANGELES — Joe Flacco came to Cleveland some 10 days ago believing he still had enough left in his tank to help a NFL team — specifically, in this case, the Browns — win football games. Offensive coordinator Alex Van Pelt doesn't disagree with that assessment.

"I think he's very self-aware and I think he's correct," Van Pelt said on a Zoom call Thursday. "Yeah, I think there's still a lot left in that tank. Again, yesterday would solidify that for me. Just watching him get the accuracy and the philosophy, the footwork and everything that he showed yesterday."

Flacco is potentially going to get his chance this Sunday when the Browns play a critical game to their playoff hopes against the Los Angeles Rams. The chance depends on whether or not rookie starter Dorian Thompson-Robinson is cleared from the concussion protocol, which he's been in since being knocked out of this past Sunday's loss at the Denver Broncos.

Whether or not that happens is likely to last until the weekend. Thompson-Robinson was not a practice participant on Wednesday, the first day of preparations for the Browns at his college alma mater, UCLA.

Van Pelt, who spoke nearly two hours before the Browns' Thursday practice, wasn't clear where the fifth-round pick was in terms of progressing through the protocol.

"I'm not sure right now," Van Pelt said. "I know he had some testing this morning, still going through the process of the protocol. I'm not exactly sure that stands this morning. I know he did some testing earlier in the day."

While the rookie was an observer Wednesday, the 38-year-old veteran Flacco was the one getting the starter's reps throughout practice. That didn't just give the 16-year pro who is still technically on the practice squad a chance to finally get significant work in with the Browns' No. 1 offensive group.

That gave Van Pelt a chance to really assess what Flacco can bring to the Browns whenever he is called upon.

"It was very impressive," Van Pelt said. "Again, he's a guy that's done it before. His size and stature, he demands attention in the huddle. His play calling is clear and crisp, and I think the guys appreciated that."

What both offensive coordinator and quarterback appreciated was the ability to get on the field and do some legitimate preparation work. Flacco may be a veteran, but again, he's been with the Browns for a week-and-a-half after not being with any team since the end of last season.

That experience that Flacco brings to the game built up over years of playing at a high level can help accelerate the ramp-up process. Still, be it a rookie like Thompson-Robinson or a former Super Bowl Most Valuable Player like Flacco, the repetitions during the week leading up to a game are critical because it provides both quarterback and coaches with information to process and put into the ever-evolving game plan.

Van Pelt, himself a former quarterback, said it's a simple answer to how Flacco can get up to speed.

"A lot of meeting time," Van Pelt said. "He does a great job on his own, really did a nice job yesterday and stepping into the huddle and calling the plays. All the operation that comes in the huddle, he was excellent at. For him. It's just spending time in the playbook. It's about operation at the line of scrimmage, getting out of the huddle, getting to the huddle, and then operating. So again, his experience in multiple systems, getting ready for NFL games, he's done many times, so just a little more emphasis on understanding exactly what we're going to ask him to do if he's the guy on game day."

Flacco wasn't elevated for the game in Denver, which left only P.J. Walker as the other quarterback on the active roster after Thompson-Robinson. However, he was on the sideline and was included in the various aspects of the gameday operations.

It's not the same as actually playing in the game. It's not insignificant, either.

"I think it's huge really just to get a game under his belt where he had the earpiece in on the sideline and he was listening to the communication from (head coach) Kevin (Stefanski) to the QBs. Just how Kevin talks to those guys, how the play calls come in, our sideline mechanics after each series and what we have to get done before the next drive. All that, just getting a dry run under his belt, will be beneficial."

https://www.beaconjournal.com/story...ms-dorian-thompson-robinson/71748958007/

This is pure speculation on my part. I could be dead wrong.

I believe Flacco will start and unless he plays terrible. He will be the starter till the season ends.

DTR has potential. However, he was a developmental pick. He was never expected to a starter this year.

Flacco has a ton of experience. He has elite arm talent. The guy can flat spin it. Cooper and the other receivers will benefit. He will be way more decisive.

In the Denver game the Broncos pre-snap were putting 7 or 8 in the box. Trying to get DTR to check out of the run. Then they would drop back as DTR tried to pass.

Experienced teams are going confuse DTR. It is a simple matter of experience. Flacco has seen it all. He is not going to get rattled. He is not going to get frustrated like DTR did when plays went sour.

If Flacco does the right things in meetings and preparation this week. IMO he starts.

https://www.yardbarker.com/nfl/arti..._flacco_ready_for_rams/s1_17049_39607016

This is a indicator and why I believe he will be the starter going forward. Veterans like Cooper know what Flacco will bring.

DTR has a good arm and mobility. But his lack of experience is glaring.

I certainly tend to agree with you. DTR definitely has potential moving forward but I think the team should be focused on playing who they feel gives the team the best chance of making the playoffs. I think Flacco would not only help the passing game somewhat, but opposing D's would be much more cautious in stacking the box with his arm strength as well. I could easily see it helping both the passing game as well as the running game.

Stefanski and Van Pelt are experienced coaches. They know the value that experience brings.

Berry saw the need late but he did react.

When DTR did not practice Wednesday. That pretty much cemented it for me. Add today and the guy that gets the first team reps play.

You are installing the game plan.

I have seen plenty of Stafford. If he is healthy? He is really good. I looked at the Rams record and the scores of their games.

I have not seen them play. They won the last two games. They are at home. I don't know what to expect from them.

The Browns have to play clean football. I know it is cliche. But we lead the league in turnovers. Last week was filled with mental mistakes and drops.

You cannot win doing that. We have enough talent to win. It is all about limiting mistakes.

Have to admit it looks strange to see Flacco in a orange helmet.

I remember when Flacco was at the combine. I had never heard of him but when I saw him throw the ball. I was thinking that dude has a gun.

Flacco throws a tight ball with high spin. He has easy gas. The ball flies out with little effort.

This will be interesting watching him Sunday.

Hopefully Ski has Joe ready to go. Great pickup. I’ll repeat myself. Not having a viable Quarterback backup in Cleveland is insane.

I'm not sure Flacco will play well, but I do trust him to not kill us with mistakes or turnovers. He may end up being our best option for this team this year

Where would the Brown's passing game be had the Browns management simply resigned Jacoby Brissett to continue as the Browns backup..?

When GM Andy Berry realized the Browns were in serious trouble due to Watson's injury, Berry tried to trade with the Commanders to get Brissett back but failed. Clearly letting Brissett leave Cleveland in the first place was a huge misjudgment by the Browns "brain trust".

If the Browns fail to make the playoffs, I will look back at this "misjudgment" by those running this franchise.

I hope Flacco can fill the need at QB...he is our ticket to the playoffs..!

Speaking for myself alone. Flacco is precisely the kind of backup I want.

My criterion is an experienced guy who has been a starter with success. Flacco fits that.

You want a guy who has been there done that. A guy who under pressure will have a slow heartbeat.

At 38 he is past being a guy who will play a full 17 game season. The body has a hard time recovering from that kind of grind.

However, as a guy off the bench. He is what you look for.

Expectations still have to be realistic. He is no miracle worker. He has not played much. He will not be mistake proof.

But right now he is the guy who gives us the best chance to win games.

...or Berry rewarded Brisset's efforts here by trading him to a team where he'd have a much better opportunity to snag a starting gig. That seems more plausible than just throwing an assett down the crapper for no reason. Those types of mutual respect moves also pay off in the future when trying to get other FA's to sign.

I agree (as usual actually). But Berry and Co...all the way to Ski didn't see - or maybe just didn't DO - any of that ^.

We had Dobbs who STILL isn't a better backup option than Flacco...then traded Dobbs and went with DTR instead. (BTW I like DTR...just not yet.) That's even more egregious than playing a season without viable WRs and/or DTs. Not world-beaters...but NFL viable guys.

I'm going to vomit if I have to hear AGAIN how we 'went with' Dobbs and DTR (when we did) because they mimic DW4. First of all, no they don't/didn't. Just because they are a threat to run doesn't mean they mimic the starter. If the team/coaches are so stuck-in / fragile-in what they 'WANT' to do that they can't gameplan with a guy like Flacco vs DTR in a backup situation then we have the wrong group of people in there.

That said, having a developmental guy like DTR behind a guy like DW4 certainly carries some similarities and makes sense...but not at the moment for BU1 with DTR...whether in TC or today. Berry has now had three STRAIGHT seasons in which he failed to get the right guys in certain positions...and at (3) different positions at that...with the latest miss being the most egregious of the (3) with the QB.

I'll go as far as to state now that if Flacco looks fair as a backup, they should plan to sign him next year as the BU1 with DTR as the BU2. He won't command the $$$ that Brissett did and he can play in many different systems.

BTW & FWIW, I'm not calling for Berry & Co to be fired. However, I DO expect there to be some tough questions about these decisions especially in the 'window' that we are in - or THINK we are in.

JMO

I don't disagree with your premise there...but Berry didn't trade Brissett. He simply chose to not re-sign him or Brisset wanted a different opportunity.

Honestly I do not know if that is the case

My thoughts are more of who the QB is coming in

Someone with the experience of Flacco vs a back QB with limited experience

Seems someone like Flacco should be able to pick it up quicker and know how a receiver will run, just by seeing so many receivers in his time.

There have been QB's who were on a team Wednesday then got traded off to another team and was the starter on Sunday and did well.

Anxious to see how things turn out Sunday.

While I won't break down your entire post one thing stood out to me that I strongly agree with. This team has the highest payroll in the NFL in 2023. It would be hard to disagree that with watson under contract and all of the salaries being paid out that the window of opportunity to win and win now is open. As to how the watson story plays out here is yet to be seen. But they heavily invested building this roster to compete now and during the window watson is under contract. Under those circumstances I can't accept any excuse as to why the Browns went into this season with P.J. Walker and DTR as the backups at QB.

Berry has been both good and bad. Myself and others did not like the DT situation last year. He did correct that.

York was a waste. Again Berry reacted and found gold in Hopkins.

I questioned drafting DTR but I liked what i saw from him. A fifth round pick sometimes is BPA.

I did not like the backup plan this year and that was with Dobbs. Dobbs have proven in his career to find his level over time. He was out played by DTR.

When Dobbs was traded I felt we were in terrible condition with the backup qb. No way do you have a 5th round rookie as the backup.

Has nothing to do with DTR and his potential. It has to do with the job. You need an experienced guy. You can be thrown into a game on the fly. It is not a place to begin learning. On the job training does work in pressure situations.

I know what Flacco was. If he is still that guy. He can help us.

It's always nice when someone makes a feeble attempt to define a player off of one play. Let me know when the Browns have another QB on the roster at the backup position with Flacco's resume. Don't worry I'll wait.

Flacco also said the final drive against us with the jets was one of the easiest drives he has ever had. Maybe he can give our D some advice.

jfan...that is fairy tail SPIN/thinking..! Some attempt to inflate what was clearly a a Browns GM major screw-up into a positive for our front office and management. Sure, the Browns were just doing Brissett a favor.

One of the major "guardrails" that the Browns operate by is "Don't Pay For Backup Players"..look it up. The Browns were being as cheap as they could at QB and Brissett would cost them some money to keep him here. It didn't matter that Brissett 'earned' a raise from the Browns for the job he did filling in for the 11 games Watson was suspended...by the way, Brissett actually out-playing Watson last season.

jfan, tell us how much Brissett has played for Washington this season...Brissett was brought in as backup security for Washington but to also mentor their young QB Howell, who would was their choice to start. Brissett could have served the same function for the Browns, mentoring DTR, but the Browns front office never understood Brissett's total value and the talent he brought to the Browns franchise

The fact that Berry was to willing bring Brissett back this season, once Berry realized the Browns offense was in trouble once Watson went down with injury, is a clear indication of how much of a misjudgement/mistake Berry and his Boys made by letting Brissett walk away.

My fear...that the Browns fail to make the playoffs due to a front office screwup rather than our players being beaten by a team with better talented players.

The season rides on Flacco's shoulders and I'm hoping he has enough left to give us some decent QB play.

Or maybe Berry thought, why should I spend a bunch of money on a backup Qb? Stefanski won't use him anyway. After all, I was paying Case Keenum $10/year and Baker still played over him with a broken arm.

Take that as you prefer:
A criticism of Berry for paying Case that much or a criticism of Stefanski for not letting Baker heal
Or both

Those guardrails were written in 2016, just before the Sashi Brown/Hue Jackson 31-1 era. You're stating as fact that the current regime is currently following them to the letter. ...and my realistic alternative theory is a fairy tale?

It may not be a fairy tale but if what you say s true, that the GM of the Browns is more concerned about the future of a single players career on another team somewhere over stability of the Browns QB depth they have and even bigger issue than some thought they did.

If the @uarterback situation doesn't get fixed the Browns may not win 2 more games all year.

I think we’ll win today, and it won’t be close.

jfan...you conveniently left out the name of Chief Strategist that Haslam hired on Jan.05, 2016, Paul DePodesta, the baseball guy.

It's Depo's name at the top of Browns Guardrails that have been followed since 2016. Guardrails link

As long as the Browns follow Depo's Plan of Operation, it will come back to hurt the franchise's goal of winning a Super Bowl.
For example: Depo's first guardrail listed on the top left..."DON'T PAY FOR DEPTH"
How did that Guardrail work out for the Browns at QB this season?

How do you know the guardrails haven't evolved over time?

That's actually one of the foundations of the guardrails.

first rule of guardrail, is don't talk about the guardrail.

" old colddawg" " I think We are going to win today and it won't be close" ...
I would LOVE to see that.

I think Joe and Kevin look like each other

Kev looks more like Clooney.

lol !!

I seriously thought that too!

so he's back on the PS now.. wtf

Most likely a procedural move.

I would not be a bit surprised if Flacco was blamed for the loss to the Rams and demoted by Berry and Stefanski in an effort to "scapegoat Flacco".

To a fault, both Berry and Stefanski (and others) in this franchise fall in love with their own draft picks and choices and manipulate the roster to promote their own picks and choices.

If Flacco is demoted, IMO, it will prove that winning the football game vs Jags is secondary to promoting their own draft picks.

Flacco was the first QB Browns QB to read quickly and get the ball out on time and accurately, throwing a catchable ball that his WRS could handle.

Flacco was on the practice squad and called up for the Rams game. After the game he automatically returns to the practice squad. We can call him up again (I think 4 times. total) or put him on the 53

Flacco will be our starter again until he's injured IMO

IIRC, we can only have 3 PS players brought up to the active roster at a time, and those can only be for 3 weeks until they are either signed or cut.

Right now we have at least 2 holes we need help with, at WR (depending on Cooper's condition) at CB (Ward) plus any potential needs at S. We'll probably have to sign someone to the active roster, and that's probably going to be Flacco. (but probably not til Friday, or so)

If I was Jax, I'd try to sign Flacco off of our practice squad

They are not allowed to per league rules (something about we are allowed to promote him to the full roster 3 times)

I hope you are right.

Clearly we can see the difference between a veteran like Flacco, who has been where the Browns want to go...a Super Bowl (win)...and a rookie like DTR who is just happy to get playing time but has no experience at winning playoff games in the NFL.

Experience does matter...get DTR and PJ ready to backup Flacco, if needed..!

agreed Mac

That seems to be a much more popular sentiment on the board now than it was only a couple of short weeks ago.

Jc

I just had a weird day dream where Flacco led the browns to a playoff victory in Baltimore.

As a Dawg who lives around hundred of thousands of Steelers and Ravens fans, I would LOVE to see that!

There seems to be a lot of confusion about the Browns tactic of placing Flacco on the practice squad. One of my major concerns was that the Browns would be taking a chance of losing Flacco to another team that needed help at QB.


Just as was explained by some board members who knew about rules that apply to the use of the practice squad, I found the following article that explains how the tactic being used by the Browns works. 


 
Joe Flacco to Remain on Browns' Practice Squad

The Browns announced on Tuesday that they will keep Joe Flacco on the practice squad despite speculation that opposing teams could attempt to pluck the veteran from Cleveland

ANTHONY MOEGLIN14 HOURS AGO
link


The Cleveland Browns announced on Tuesday that Joe Flacco was going to remain on the team's practice squad before their upcoming game against the Jacksonville Jaguars. 

While this is standard procedure in the NFL, this news sent Browns' nation into a bit of a panic as some fans believed that this would make him eligible to be signed and picked up elsewhere.Do not worry! Joe Flacco will be a Cleveland Brown next week and throughout the remainder of the season. 

Do not worry! Joe Flacco will be a Cleveland Brown next week and throughout the remainder of the season.

At the highest level, the practice squad rules are pretty straightforward:

Practice squad players can be placed on the gameday roster THREE times during the season
After those first three designations, they revert to the practice squad
Upon the fourth designation to the gameday roster, they must be signed to the 53-man roster
If they are not signed to the team's 53-man roster after their fourth game, they will then go to the waiver wire and be available for any team to pick up
Teams are allowed to activate two practice squad players per week

We experienced this same thing earlier in the season when quarterback PJ Walker was going through the same routine. After his third game of the year, he was placed on the 53-man roster and is a part of the active roster now.

In a situation like this the "why's" are most likely because the Browns wish to keep their intentions in the dark.

The Jag's will have to plan on both quarterbacks. Today is the day when the game plan begins implementation. If DTR remains under concussion protocol it would be a clear indication that Flacco will start.

ahouldn't matter if DTR is in concussion protocol or not for a team thats clinging to the laughable playoff aspirations, the only QB on this roster that will even give them a shot if Flacco.. All this cloak and dagger BS is just more shenanigans of an incompetent FO.

How does keeping your opponent guessing make one incompetent?

yeah.. they are really guessing.. gmab. Theres 15 years of tape on Flacco, and DTR scares noone

To even suggest that DTR belongs above Flacco on the depth chart is laughable and a slap in the face to long time Browns fans who have seen enough good football to recognize the difference between a veteran like Flacco, playing the QB position vs a rookie, like DTR playing the position.

The first tip off might be whether the QB throws a 5 yd pass with the same velocity as a QB who is throwing a 15yd curl.

DTR might show some QB talent but he has a lot to learn from a veteran like Flacco. Flacco can teach DTR and PJ a lot if the Browns coaches allow Flacco the opportunity to teach them.

I stated before the game last week that Flacco would start for the rest of the season if he looked decent.

Experience matters.

DTR practiced today. So he cleared protocol.

The one consideration would be weather and field conditions. Rain is the forecast. If the field is really sloppy with wind etc.

One would have to consider a running quarterback with hardly any passes. Other than that Flacco would be the guy.

DTR has not been cleared yet. Depending on if he had any symptoms after practice he might be on track to be cleared.

https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nfl/news/nfl-concussion-protocol-process-return/neo5aga3ey4c4zzvshu6exwf#:~:text=The%20player%20is%20taken%20to,or%20a%20focused%20neurological%20exam.

thats adorable you think KS will run the ball when the situation calls for it

Thus why I don't think it is cloak and dagger stuff, just procedural. If the Browns signed Flacco to the 54 man roster, they would have to cut somebody from the roster. By elevating him to the gameday roster they don't have to cut anybody. Flacco just takes somebodys place on the gameday roster.

By waiting, the team may not have to cut anybody. Guys get hurt, and late in the season it becomes easier to just IR them the rest of the season.

It is adorable because the Browns are second in the NFL in rush attempts.

And if you knew what you were talking about you would know that.

In addition if you knew about the tackles on the team you would know what kind of run blockers they are and how they match up weekly.

Or, maybe if you knew the defensive tendencies of the team we play. You have an idea about a game plan.

But since you don't know any of that. You are better off calling plays from your couch.

In what world is saying nothing suggesting anything? Nobody has "suggested that". I think you are looking for excuses to be outraged where none exist.

lol you are wrong on every point... running attempts vs percentage of the playcalls are different... and running alot and running when you're supposed to are two different things as well.. and you should also know our tackles suck in the run game. oh and the defensive tendencies.... oh please enlighten me on how when playing the worst run defense in the nfl we had 16 carries...or against seattle when we need a single yard and we throw a pick instead.. sounds like you're better off just eating your applesauce and waiting for jeopardy

So where do the Browns rank in "running attempts vs percentage of the play calls"? Let me ask you, do you think the smart thing to do is call a running play when that's exactly what your opponents are expecting you to do? Run when they have 8 men in the box? Because it would seem you think that down and distance are the only two factors in play calling.

"and you should also know our tackles suck in the run game. oh and the defensive tendencies....???

So running with two backs that are below average behind tackles that suck is a good strategy when the defense is stacking against the run?

If you had one percent of the information that the coaching staff has week to week on individual match-ups please enlighten me on down and distance
defensive tendencies weekly.

In addition pre-snap there are check out calls based upon alignment. There are options.

So, please sit back down on your couch and justify to yourself how much more you know than the people who get paid.

Don't forget that in the last 2 games the defense wasn't shutting the other team down. We were behind the entire game. Even with how relatively run-heavy we are, I'd like to see us run more but when you're behind in a game you have to start throwing eventually (especially when the deficit is growing).

You are right.

In addition sometimes the guys on the other side make a play.

Play calling is like calling a pitch in baseball. You have to execute and still sometimes the hitter gets the hit.

When a game is over and plays are in question. If a play blows up. It is easy to be critical. He shoulda done this or that. Those who are so quick to criticise and the same people who never say a word when a great play works.

Couch experts.

Useful information.

The #Browns running backs have faced a 63.5% increase in stacked boxes by opposing defenses since Deshaun Watson's shoulder injury. If you're wondering why the Browns have been throwing the ball more in the last 3 games.

Add the fact that Ford is not very good and Kareem is a short yardage single purpose back.

Plus the tackles are not so hot in run blocking.

Bone,

I agree with your takes regularly...I even agree with that ^ one. BUT...Ski has gotten away from what was working - including running the ball - or having a feel for the game and being cute too often well before DW4 blew out his shoulder. JMO

I by no means think that KS is perfect. There are times that I disagree with calls.

In particular I despise long developing plays behind the LOS. I felt if I saw another end around with Moore I would hurl.

He is not a running back. He is small and not all that fast. He is a slot receiver who can at times can play outside.

We have to run the ball even though I know how limited Ford and Kareem are. This has been a rough year. We are on qb 4. The loss of Nick was devastating to me. The receiving unit is far from ideal. Yet we are 7-5 with a damn good shot at winning 10 games. If we win our homes we will be in the playoffs.

That is shocking really. There have been way too many years when we were done at Thanksgiving.

When you look at head coaches who have remained in the NFL. It is no easy task. Reid, Tomlin, Belichick and a few others. It takes owner patience. Roster change, and injuries occur. Stability at qb is super important. We have not had that under KS. That is a fact.

KS is a first time head coach. Berry is a first time GM. Although qualified for their jobs they are gaining experience. Experience matters.

I want these guys to remain because I believe in them. That does not mean I always agree with their decisions. I have been critical of both.

you really have zero clue and it shows.. you type these long winded posts about really nothing..and yeah.. when a team is the worst at something in the whole league and you don't attack that.. yeah I'm sorry but just because they are being paid to do it don't mean they should..this may be crazy to you, but sometimes those people that get paid to do something, get fired because they don't do it well.. I'm done talking about it.. KS is known for bad situational playcalling.. so yeah, I don't trust in a weather game him to run at all...which was the point of my post. I don't need to justify anything.. i have eyes. Sounds like yours have issues.. don't sit so close to the tv when you watch Murder she wrote

BINGO

I tell you what shows is your ignorance.

You want to trade insults. Let's go.

When you want to talk football crawl under a rock because your have nothing.

j/c:

This team is on its 4th QB, lost Chubb, both OTs, have had injuries and missed games by starters everywhere, and yet, has managed 7 wins battling for a playoff spot in December.

And people are complaining about Stefanski and running the ball with Hunt and Jerome Ford on a thread about the Browns' QB.... Joe Flacco.

Truly remarkable times.

Just look at the people doing the complaining. They whine about everything under the sun.

" And people are complaining about Stefanski and running the ball with Hunt and Jerome Ford on a thread about the Browns' QB.... Joe Flacco. "


What do you expect Memphis ?

The Kevin Stefanski thread is locked !!

Hahaha!!

Flacco really has 5 TDs in two games while Pickett has 6 TDs in twelve games.

Yeah, the old man is doing ok. I hated him for years (cuz he was a Raven and always beat us but who didn’t?), now he’s our QB and playing well, so love the guy. Life as a Browns fan is crazy, swish.

I formally apologize for calling Flacco a statue lol

There are a couple things that stand out to me watching the play of Joe.

When he gets protection and throws in rhythm. He anticipates the route and throws to the spot. His ball placement is precise.

He is decisive and the ball is out quickly. He can hit the small windows.

His arm talent is elite. He throws a beautiful ball. Tight spiral with speed or touch. The TD throw to Njoku was not rushed. He was wide open.

Joe made sure he caught it. He just layed it up.

On the throw to Bell on fourth down. That was such a cool play. Jumbo OL package. Everybody in the house was thinking run. Joe fit the ball at the right speed and height inside the action and Bell was gone.

Even Stefanski was high stepping as Bell scored. That is some good football right there.

It has to be a great feeling for Joe.

At 38 you are well aware that the clock is ticking. Every moment you can still compete is treasure. All that you have done to have a career is facing you in the mirror.

So being in a new locker room with a team deep in the hunt is a moment to savor.

Go Joe Go.

We’re running on fumes and heart. All these injuries... Now Hickman needs to step up, because no one else is available. The OL... Jesus h... it’s only Tuesday but we’ve learned Jed and Dawand are done in til 2024, then Hurst. At least Delpit could be available in the playoffs.

I have a kind fo strange comment regarding Flacco. I was very surprised when Joe chose #15. I have been a Browns fan since 1969 and it got me thinking of which former Browns QBs had worn that number. In recent history, I can't think of any. An obvious older QB who wore #15 was Mike Phipps, but IIRC I think Mark Miller from Bowling Green played in the 1970s and I think his number was 15.

Anyone else recall Browns QBs who wore number 15?

CB Players with the number 15 …..Av= approximate value of player 0-100

Player From To AV
Mario Alford 2016 2016 0
Davone Bess 2013 2013 2
Adrian Colbert 2021 2021 0
Steve Cox 1981 1984 6
Joe Flacco 2023 2023
Ken Gorgal 1953 1954
Gary Lane 1966 1967 1
Greg Little 2011 2012 9
Mark Miller 1978 1979 1
Marlon Moore 2014 2015 0
Jim Ninowski 1958 1963 7
Tommy O'Connell 1956 1957
Mike Phipps 1970 1976 35
Bert Rechichar 1952 1952
Bryan Wagner 1989 1990 3
Charlie Whitehurst 2016 2016 0
Dave Zastudil 2006 2009 7

I might have guessed Jim Ninowski. I see a couple punters in there. Only other QB I see if Charlie Whitehurst but I don't know the early 60s and 1950s guys/. Not surprising I forgot him, since he was a here for a drink of water.

Haha, I pretty much said the same thing.

Flacco is a point passer. He throws at or just before a receiver breaks in his cut. That is how he got picked last week. Our receiver got jammed up with a defender. Much like receivers try to pick a defender on various routs, this time the defender acted as the pick man, unintentional, and our receiver never got to his point, thus what looked like a dumb throw. Just the way it goes.

We have had many QB's going back a long way that didn't throw until they see the receiver open. Bernie was much the same as flacco. He threw to a spot and expected his receiver to be there. As a receiver you have to be on your toes. By the time a receiver makes his cut and looks back, the ball is going to be 3/4 of the way there.

Air Coryell concept. Still works as long as the receiver can execute and is not disrupted..

I saw that too. Good comment.

That always made Bernie's arm look stronger than it was.

thats an awesome video clip of Joe

That was a very accurate description all the way around Peen. That's exactly what both Flacco does and Bernie did. And your description of that pick was spot on.

I'm really curious about how both Flacco and the FO feel about him being with the team going into next year.

I'm going to keep beating this drum. Teams that consider themselves contenders have a capable backup QB on their roster. DTR is a QB with a lot of promise, but has a way to go before he can be counted on to go into a game and win.

I would sign Flacco as our backup next year in a heartbeat. DTR could learn so much from 2 vets like Flacco and Watson.

Given the life that Facco has brought in the door.

The one area of injury that really hurts is OT. I was hopeful that Wills would return and we would have Wills and Jones at OT.

Christian and Hudson are deep below average.

What I believe is KS will go back to the Baker playbook. That is 12 personnel, under center, play action. We will use a third TE at times. On some plays we will go OL jumbo and bring in an extra guard with a fullback.

We will use the rolling pocket and go back to a brand of WCO. Where the routes will be tied up to 3 and 5 step drops. That means get the ball out.

Flacco can run that offense. He has in the past. In fact play action is his game. He hides the ball well and is decisive when throwing. We saw some of that in the Jags game.

Scheme and assignment are strong points of a KS offense.

Really with the injuries at OT it is our best chance.

And with the way things have been going with DW Joe will probably be our starter next year too!!!!

I think we'd all gladly chip in to help with the bonus money

Forget the incentives, how much is Flacco making this year? League minimum?

$370,800.
A little better than league minimum for a 10+ year veteran.

Veteran minimum for 10+ years is $1.165M, or $68,529 per game.
He is getting $75,000 per game.

Again,I’d try and keep him around for next year too. We’ll probably need him. Insurance. We need insurance!!

IMO which I stated a number of times. the backup needs to be a veteran former starter.

A guy who can step in to any situation and get rattled. Joe is perfect. He is a seen it done that guy who can execute a playbook.

What we are seeing from him fits precisely.

Exactly Bone. I agree wholeheartedly!

If we go deep into the playoffs winning at least one game, Flacco should be on the roster for camp, imo. If he gets us to the SB, he’ll be a Cleveland Browns legend, and should definitely have a camp spot. He can ride pine behind the younger guys for a year or two and I’d be fine with that.

*per game IF he wins, is what that says. Does he get paid if he loses?

In hindsight, if we had traded baker, signed Flacco and not traded for Watson just 20
Months ago...

Well said, and it's just hard to find a QB that can do that anymore.

That's a great clip, and shows what kind of leader we have in Joe.

I hate to be negavite on Watson, he already gets enough. But this is just something we've never seen from him.

Except I didn't type the "not."

Not get rattled.

He's likely making the league minimum...THEN...add in the incentives for wins and playoff games.

Hell, I think Flacco could still teach a lot to Watson, let alone DTR.

I honestly don't think it matters what Flacco is making.. He's doing a damn fine job for us through two games. I suspect he'll continue. At this point, if his body holds up, I'd love to have him over Watson next year. He's a better QB and a better person and Leader.

I agree!

His salary is something he gets regardless of outcome. Bonuses can be contingent upon the result.

I pointed out this irony when we first signed him. We have a QB now that we can win it all with if he just takes care of the ball and we're getting it for league minimum while the savior we gave up the farm for sits sidelined.

With the way this roster was built, we never, ever needed "elite". We just needed stable, controlled QB play that moves the ball and doesn't score for the other team.
We gave up a ransom in draft picks and a quarter BILLION dollars for the QB that we "needed" to get us to the Super Bowl and in the end, we're capable of getting there right now with a veteran QB earning league minimum; and for anyone that wants to doubt or poo-poo that, we currently have the best record in the league against teams above .500 and we've beaten every playoff contending team in the AFC that has been on our schedule. THAT is good enough to get to a Super Bowl. Those 1st round draft picks could have been some nice depth on the DLine, or perhaps the OLine.


**Interesting note: most of the AFC is above .500, while most of the NFC is below .500

Flacco did say he attributes some of this success to being fresh and able to play at this point of the season without having 3 months of wear and tear on his body. Who knows what shape he'd be in if he started from week one.

Can you imagine what would have happened on these forums if we released Baker and signed Joe to be our QB going forward? WW3 😂

I'm not so sure. A lot of the watson debate was about his baggage and the price tag involved. I'm sure there would still be a QB controversy simply because that's the nature of the beast. But after two seasons of actually playing I think the questions would be answered when it comes to Flacco. When you have seen only 9 games played by watson, and most of them bad, questions still linger. I for one understand that watson has a better skill set than Baker ever had, but translating that onto the field on a regular basis hasn't happened yet.

You bring up a very valid and interesting point. I've never been one to advocate that Flacco be the starter in Cleveland but a very valuable backup. Considering the points you made in your post it only solidifies that opinion for me.

What Pit ! with all do respect, well maybe a little LOL

You were asking the question a bit about who would be the better QB to start

As the Browns were moving in the direction of making the play-offs

DTR or the vetern Flacco

So I know in some way I'll catch some kind of hell for this

But ! wasn't you kind of advocating Flacco ?

Oh boy ! I'm in trouble now

I agree he is a better person....Qb probably not Leader??

His age just doesn't make it realistic to keep him after this season, at least in a starting capacity.

First, let me make it clear that Flacco has been phenomenal for the Browns these last two games. I'm pretty sure that no one expected this level of play when he was signed. Though his numbers are far from fantastic, they are an improvement over what we've seen from PJ and DTR. With a two game QBR of 41.5 and completion pct of 55.1, it ranks him about 24th in the league but getting a crucial win against a good Jacksonville team carries more weight than his overall QBR.

Watson - QBR = 43.7, completion % = 61.4, Record = 4-1
Flacco - QBR = 41.5, Completion % = 55.1, Record = 1-1
DTR - QBR = 32.2, completion % = 53.2, Record = 1-2
PJ Walker - QBR = 19.9, completion % = 48.6, Record = 2-1 (credited with Indy win)

I think this talk about signing Flacco for next year and even being a contender for the starting job is a little on the crazy side. Realistically, there was a reason why Flacco was sitting at home having been signed by no one this season. There's a reason why Flacco started only 9 games the previous 3 years while with the Jets. Sporting numbers like a 43.2 QBR, 57.5 comp %, and a 1-8 Record the last 3-years at age 39 starting next year doesn't scream franchise QB. Note: Neither does Watson's numbers over his 12 starts for the Browns, 43.5 QBR, 59.8 comp %, 7-4 Record. The clear difference is the upside of Watson at age 29 next season compared to the surely regression of a Flacco at age 39 going forward.

I, along with most Browns fans, am seriously hoping that Flacco can keep up the pace over these next 4-games. The concern of course, is we might have seen the best Flacco has to offer so far. With the mounting injuries on both sides of the ball, will Flacco regress to the player he's been the last 3-years? Being cautiously optimistic, I'm hoping that Flacco can carry this team these final 4 games but wouldn't be surprised if he regressed to a demonstrated level of play as documented these last 3-years. Asking a 38-year-old journeyman veteran to continue to over perform over a 6 plus game stretch is a big ask, especially with the mounting injuries. Keep it going Joe!

You're not in trouble. lol

I certainly was and am promoting Flacco be the starter. But it wasn't nor is it for the entire season. What I meant, and you are correct that I certainly wasn't clear, is that as the back-up, between DTR and Flacco I think it's very clear which of the two is the best QB at this point in their respective careers. The team was and is in the payoff hunt and I didn't think it was wise to start DTR in the role when watson couldn't play.

I don't think you would want Flacco to be the named starter going into the season next year. He will be 39 next season and a 17 game schedule would be grueling on him. The situation was that the Browns were and are in playoff contention and they were entering the 12th game on the schedule. That left 6 games to go on the schedule. At that juncture I thought Flacco would give the Browns the best chance to make the playoffs and still do over any other QB that was on the roster at that time. Coming in as the starter from the backup role is what I was advocating for.

Can Joe Flacco get his completion percentage up? They may have to line up, or benefit from lining up under center and run play action, to keep the defense looking for the run, so they can open up receivers in the passing game.


Can Joe Flacco, reduce the number of times his passes go incomplete or ehh,get his completion percentage up.

. Watson's year is done, the Browns year is not yet done, so we can talk about Watson later.

You’re selling but I am not ready to buy. Flacco is what he is, but I don’t think Watson had a 300 yard game with 3 TD’s. There in lies the challenge for Watson. Grandpa Joe passes the eye test for a QB who will make under 400 k for the year versus the 2.5 million per game that is roughly Watsons cost. Toss in the lost draft choices and that’s a hard pill to swallow.

55.1% is Horrible.

Numbers do not always tell the full story.

Flacco has been with the team for 3 weeks. He doesn't even know the names of all the players.

Some of the throws he has made were of the highest quality NFL throws you will see from any quarterback. He is executing the offense. He handles the huddle. The ball comes out on time. He throws with anticipation. He threw for over 300 yards and three TD's. We beat a division leading team.

To leave his backyard and throwing to his kids and step into a new locker room and lead an NFL team to victory. Not an easy task.

Just win Joe. I don't care about your numbers so much.

Well, when all some people do is look at a stat sheet........

There is the good and bad with Joe. I think we have to accept that Joe will make mistakes. He is going to try to make some throws that are really questionable.

At the same time he will stretch the field. The throws to Goodwin and Cooper show that.

He has thrown for two consecutive 300+ yard games. I doubt that is the best thing because he has thrown 5 picks while throwing 7 TD's.

We are going to need to run the ball. Right now it is a problem because of the injuries to the OL.

Having at least Bitonio, Pocic, and Teller will help. I really wish we could get someone to play better than Hudson and Christian. At least Hudson for sure.

We have Alex Leatherwood and Justin Murray on the practice squad. Perhaps it will be decided to give them a look at tackle. Both have experience.

I could be mistake, but doesn't Dunn have experience at OT? I'd be good with Bitonio, Teller, Pocic, Christian, and Dunn

On the depth chart Dunn is behind Teller.

We have a guy named Leroy Watson as the backup for Geron Christian.

Watson is 6'5" 310 lbs. age 25. First year player.

Alex Leatherwood was a Raiders first round pick by Mike Mayock. He is on the practice squad. I do not know what is up with him.

Don't know how he is viewed by the coaches. If there were any thoughts of him stepping in at RT. I guess he would be in there.

If we are going to have any real hope at making a run. The OL will need to be better.

Flacco is doing great and the coaches are squeezing the last little bit of talent out of him.

Next year, Watson will be back and better than he was in previous years.

He better be. That dude has squeezed every last drop out of the "rusty" excuse and after 3 weeks of Flacco I don't think that's going to fly anymore.

Amen. Mic drop.

Watson was never a polished passer or a good reader of Ds. He's a backyard football player that can sometimes make some spectacular plays with his arms or legs. He was also known as being a good leader and a crunch time player. He will never look like Flacco, a polished pocket passer.

Watson and Stefanski were a strange marriage from the beginning. I think Berry liked him coming out and probably didn't agree with the Browns passing on him. Then you add his now mythical season, and I think Berry and Stefanski got excited about the possibilities and probably talked themselves into believing he could thrive with Stefanski's offense with a few tweaks here and there and throwing in some packaged run plays.

I expect Watson to look exactly like he looked this year next year. It's just who he is as a QB. He will not look like Flacco. What he really needs to clean up is the gimme throws. Can't have 5 yard passes thrown into the ground or sailing two feet to the left or right of receivers. If he can just fix that, the Browns and Stefanski can probably make it work with him. For some strange reason, I really think the team believes in Watson and play hard for him believing he can get the job done.

ANDREW BERRY is the GOAT.

I think the DW trade was mostly, Haslam. It’s too bad too , Baker is balling out. And even Flacco, as old as he is, is playing leaps and bounds better than anything we’ve seen from any QB in the DW era.

I think Flacco fits what KS is comfortable with much more than Watson. KS likes the more fundamental/cerebral QB who can read and anticipate. DW is more of a wildcard.

I didn't mean to start rehashing the Watson debate in the Flacco thread. My response was more along the lines of the length it took Watson to start looking good. It was far too long and he got way too much slack, IMO. I was watching games and clips of practices and couldn't help but keep asking myself "what has he been doing all this time".

Flacco comes in and (while certainly not pretty) does just enough to win games. While frustrating, it's also an interesting comparison.

I’m not writing DW off as a bust for us yet, but if he doesn’t come out balling next year, and looks like an average of what we’ve seen so far, he will be a bust to me. But I do hope we keep Flacco on the roster just in case.

how are you going to call a QB that went 5-1 a bust...

this I believe is accurate, I think KS would prefer a pure QB that can run PA and get the ball down the field. Someone that can play from under center successfully. Maybe a little mobility to do designed rollouts.. Watson needs the shotgun to be successful which reduces the effect of PA, For what we gave up, (not going to be popular) but Baker and the draft picks are probably still a better value than watson given how baker has played this year.

Did you watch those games? I saw DW look elite in one game with flashes in a couple of others. I did not see a Franchise QB. I did not see sustained consistant good play. That’s how…

And I despise DW the person, the one that thinks he did nothing wrong with all those women… So unless he’s bringing consistent winning to the team, he’s easy to not want. Straight trash.

The old man came through for us again. At 38, he is the BEST QB we have ever had since Bernie. That includes Watson.

Watson's last 3 starts minus the Colts game where he only played 2 series and realized he was still injured.

Vs Tennessee 27 of 33 for 289 yards 2 TD's 0 Int's rating of 123.4 Had 4 carries for 16 yards. Would have been over 300 yards if ref did not call Cooper out of bounds and replay showed he did not go out of bounds.

Vs Arizona 19 of 30 for 219 yards 2 TD's 0 INT's rating of 107.5. Had 3 carries for 22 yards. Did not finish game because of large lead.

Vs Baltimore 20 of 34 for 213 yards 1 TD and 1 INT rating of 74.8. Had 8 carries for 37 yards. Watson has never lost a game college or pro against Lamar Jackson.

His last 3 games he was balling out 5 TD's to 1 pick and most importantly 3 wins to 0 losses. I think he looked elite in those 3 starts.

But his experience and size makes him a must keep. Of course he’ll probably be a back up. A damn good one.

The way Watson plays so recklessly, we NEED Flacco as backup!

IMO, the only way that statement can become true is if Flacco can clean up the turnovers. It's also no coincidence that if he were to do that and the team can retain what overall health they still have, we could end up doing some damage in the playoffs.

Oh, the irony.

I’m not concerned about next year. I’m worried about this one.

Watson will be our expected starter in 2024, if Joe still wants to play he will go to a team that wants him as a starter. I don’t think he’d want to hold a clipboard but maybe I’m wrong.

I’m just enjoying “the now”. the old curmudgeon being our QB, the grizzled veteran, the wily old man tossing the rock around the lawn and leading us to wins.

it can be argued that 5-1 is consistent winning. I think people don't like him (which is fine) so they are rooting for him to fail. I get the sentiment, but blame berry for putting the fans in the position of choosing between morality and rooting for a winning team.

Have you seen DW play? He takes a ton of hits. Flacco knows that too. And I can’t stand Watson the man, but I’m not rooting for him to fail because I want the team to win. I think your man-crush has your eyes clouded.

I guess Joe Cool could be applied to Flacco.

He can read a defense and make some beautiful throws. Nice. He will also misfire and miss an open receiver.

So far so good, with the difference being the team has rallied around him.

Best year since 2020.

I think Flacco’s contributions have been as important and surprising to him as they are to fans. This is why he didn’t want to look at the other offers while on our PS. Dude knows we’re a QB away most days and would love to go out on top. Who wouldn’t?

I don’t have a man-crush, nor are my eyes clouded.

I've been Flacco flag waver since it was rumored we interesting in signing him, i just wish we would have done it and made him the backup all year..With a vet like that, and the kind of success he's had, especially how he gets better in the playoffs, we have a punchers chance Alot of the turnovers are just rapport with receivers and him throwing to a spot and they aren't there.. I trust Flacco more than I do the likes of Tillman to know what the play was supposed to be. That being said, I see zero reason not to bring him back next year as a back up if he's willing. He's at the age I think he wants another ring, a healthy browns team next year would be a really good chance.

The weird thing (I said this somewhere else too) is that us NOT signing Flacco until so late might actually be good in the long run. He's not worn down by training camp, multiple more games, etc.

It could also be argued that the stated 5-1 is rather misleading, however, because several of that 5 was this team winning DESPITE him, not due to him.

DW is unfortunately an unknown.

Until he plays consecutive eight games after full camp and preseason.

We do not know. He was starting to look comfortable in the second half of the Ravens game. Even then he was hurt.

For myself I have to see him play games in a row. Where you can see he fits into an offensive scheme.

Leatherwood is dealing with an injury according to Stefanski last week.

Wylper got time at centre, replacing Harris and Pojic.

It's CentER.

Darn Canadians.

While true, we don't beat the Bears without our D playing lights out. 2 ints gave the Bears 14 of their 17 points. It goes for both QBs.

Absolutely no doubt about that, but we weren't talking about Flacco or his less than stellar performance at protecting the ball thus far. We were talking about Watson's performances thus far and how, with very few exceptions - way too few, we have won games despite him, not because of him. The "rust" excuse will probably get trotted out next August, too.

it could be argued, but found to be wrong.. he has better stats than any QB we have trotted out this year so if we are winning despite him , same would be true for all of them. Mind you, I'm a flacco fan and I'm glad we got him, mostly because the other options don't include Watson at this point.

Pretty sure my comment pointed out that the defense had more to do with our win last Sunday than Joe. The thread is titled "Browns acquire Joe Flacco" so bringing up DW being 5-1 crediting the D, is exactly what I pointed out. I didn't realize your comments were just exclusively DW.

Holding a team to 3 points from the offense makes Joe's 4th Q comeback a bit easier. If you say the Browns won in spite of Watson, in a Joe Flacco thread, to diminish one QBs play, the standard should be the same. Without 2 of Joe's 3 ints, we only need 2 FGs to win.

I love what Joe is doing for the team and I don't understand the instance to bring DW into the conversation. Reminds me of the constant reminders of Baker Mayfield references.

Yeah, three scoring drives and over 200 passing yards in the fourth quarter was what some might call "a bit easier".

That 200 yards in the 4th quarter was awesome. The 2 Int's that lead directly to 14 points is what he was pointing out. The defense held the Bears to 3 points. The defense playing as they did made it easier for the offense and Flacco to come back. If the defense would have allowed a couple TD's the comeback would have been much harder.

Actually it would have been, if in addition to the 14 points gifted to the Bears by TOs, our D gave up 2 others, we would have been down 31-7, which was a great deal harder.

No, it wouldn't be wrong, and whomever else may have been QB doesn't matter. What matters is that the performances given were sufficiently inadequate and flawed to point where we actually got the 'W' in those games DESPITE what he did.
And Flacco pulling off that insane 4th Qtr barely keeps him out of that category for this game, but because of his 1st through 3rd quarter performances, he's setting up camp in that territory as well.

Flat out, our offense has been generally abysmal this year when you look at turnovers and efficiencies. I feel we're getting more efficient, and we've cut down on the number of fumbles, but we're still giving opponents plenty of short fields just as we've done all season long, even in games we've managed to win. Yes, we've won games, but we NEED TO GET BETTER. It is true with Flacco now, and it was 1000% true with Watson, too. He literally started two separate games against division rivals this year with first-pass Pick 6's. We got blown out in one and managed to win one ... despite him.

It's misleading in the fact that it should really be 4-1 because that other win came against Indy when he was out after 5 pass attempts or something like that. Yes, he started, but shouldn't be rewarded as the starter for the W. Especially with the back-n-forth that ensued in the second half.

That said....what other win did we get DESPITE him? What game did he play so poorly that some other element of the Browns' performance allowed us to win?

Because the wins against Cincy, Tennessee, Arizona, and certainly Baltimore (particularly his 2nd half performance) don't indicate that, whatsoever.

I'm glad we have Joe Flacco now but let's not get carried away and start revisionist history either. Here are Flacco's stats vs Watsons stats this year.

Joe Flacco 3 games 77 completions in 133 attempts 57.9 completion% for 939 yards 7.1 yards an attempt 7 Touchdowns to 5 int's rating of 81.6 a QBR of 33.5. Rushing 5 carries for -2 yards 0 touchdowns. 2 Wins and 1 loss.

Deshaun Watson 6 games 105 completions in 171 attempts 61.4 completion % for 1,115 yards 6.5 yards an attempt 7 Touchdowns to 4 Int's rating of 84.3 QBR 43.5. Rushing 26 times for 142 yards and 1 Touchdown. 5 wins 1 loss.

Don't forget to add in Watson's 5 Fumbles (in only 6 games) to go with the 4 INT. (totals of 12 games played for us with 9 INT and 6 Fumbles and 37 sacks (the sack rate seems insanely high))

Aside from that, despite what some may think, it isn't a comparison between Flacco and Watson when people point out that Watson was... less than stellar (and certainly not worth what he is being paid).
Flacco also isn't the future in any way, and almost definitely will not be on this roster next year at age 39. Heck, he may just prefer to leverage this season into another starting gig next year, or perhaps he'll be ready to hang it up and officially retire.
Either way, I'd be shocked if we paid the man a real salary to stay on.

I don't really have a dog in this fight, but he was god-awful in the Cincy game (it was bad weather and Burrow was also not good).

That offense was responsible for 24 points. He passed for a TD and rushed for a TD. Again, what win did we have DESPITE Watson's performance? (again, excluding the Indy game of only 5 pass attempts)

He was 16/29 for an average of 5+ yards. He also threw a pick in that game. He was not good.

Chubb had 18 carries for a tad over 100 yards (almost 6 yards/carry). Chubb had more yards/carry than Watson had per completion. The other running backs chipped in another hundred yards. Beyond the numbers, I think you're forgetting how bad he looked (bouncing passes to receivers), as well. The Bengals got 3 points, and IIRC they didn't get a first down in like a whole half or something crazy like that.

If you were to make a ranked list of people that got us the win, I would have Watson very low. He was directly responsible for both TDs, but it was largely the D and run game that got him in a position to make that 3-yard pass and 13-yard run.

Again, it was a bad weather day and QB stats were not going to look impressive. See Joe Burrow's stat line. Watson looked much better than Burrow did that day. He also had a rushing TD in that game. The only stat that really matters in any game is a win or a loss. He was the QB, and the team won. Would you have liked it better if Watson threw for over 300 and the team lost?

When the team gets a decent lead, and their defense is playing well they will lean on the running game and start shortening the game. See wins vs Tennessee and Arizona. Watson had good stat lines, but not great QB stat lines and main reason is the team was up big and leaned on the run game. Now when teams fall behind like last week and have to throw to catch up QB's tend to throw for over 300 yards but usually don't win. Thank you Flacco for doing both vs the Bears. In games where it is a shootout like the Ravens game QB's will put up their best numbers and that is exactly what Watson did that day. On another note, Watson has never lost to Lamar Jackson college or Pro.

So how the team won means nothing. Only who the QB was means something?

That was a bad weather day. Our QB played better than the Bengals QB and got the win. Who by the way is the league's highest paid QB.

So we excuse QB play every time the weather is bad? In Cleveland and the AFC North? Since Burrow had a bad day it must mean something. I've sat in the stands in Cleveland when snow was blowing sideways and you couldn't feel your hands and seen better QB performances than that.

When it fits an argument. I recall a three game stretch of "poor QB" play by Baker that was long ridiculed and weather was not allowed to be part of the explanation for it.


The reality is that weather does matter.

It does matter. To what extent it matters is up for debate. Also just how bad the weather conditions are play into just how bad you can excuse a QB for playing. I remember people who are on the board who attended that game saying the conditions weren't all that bad. So at least partially my comments are based on people that were actually at that game. I have to give that more validity than people simply buying into a narrative.

In this case it's a fair argument, IMO. Burrow also struggled that game (though it's not clear to me if it was the weather or his calf).

I was starting to forget what exactly it was we were arguing over so I had to go back and re-read.
-poster states Flacco is best since Bernie, including Watson
-reply was an argument, cited 5-1 record of Watson
-response was record was inflated, and then someone asked for another instance where we won in spite of Watson


IMO, and given the context of the conversation, I maintain that the Cinci game is a fair argument. There's probably a difference in definition of "winning in spite of", and after re-reading I'll acknowledge I'm being a little too devil's advocate when criticizing a (at the time) statement win vs a division rival. What stuck out to me were all the short-hop throws to wide open receivers.

One of those games was some of the worst weather I've seen and NFL game played in. We threw the ball as much or damn well nearly as much as we ran it in that game. In similar wind conditions New England played a game and had his QB throw the ball a total of 3 times.... A second of those games you refered to was certainly as bad/worse than any weather Jacoby or DW has had to play in since then. Not sure about the 3rd game you are referring to.

But folks choose who they give excuses to. So no change I guess.

How many NFL games have you watched?

So how many times have you seen a team throw the ball 3 times? Hig winds gusting at 50 mph and rain to my mind is a worse combination than snow and white out conditions. jmo

Were you at that game? Because people on this board who were at that game said it wasn't that bad in the stadium during that game. Maybe you know something they don't.

LOL

I'll take that as a no.

LOL.

Because what game was it?
What posters said what, exactly?
Were they the posters who didn't want to give a QB any excuses.

And how many games have you seen 3 passes attempted by a team in the NFL?

I have no idea what your "3 passes" argument has to do with anything. They were posters who attended the game. I think one of them was Peen and I'm pretty sure he doesn't have the agenda you are suggesting. So your answer to my questions was to ignore them and ask me questions? Typical.

I will still take your answer as a no since you still refuse to answer any of my questions.

Hahaha.

So you can't name a game. You can't state what posters or what they said.

Thanks.

I'm sorry you didn't see or read them. Or are now just denying it. Which ever the case may be hopefully they will read these posts and explain it to you. It seems as though you think denying it makes it better.

Which game?
Which specific posters?
What did they actually say?

This is your post and your claim. Answer the questions or simply move on.

How has Flacco looked this year so far?

Las Vegas Raiders at Cleveland Browns - November 1st, 2020

Weather 49 degrees, relative humidity 56%, wind 35 mph

Forgive me Lord, for adding to this back n forth

Have fun with the game stats

If you want to be tortured in watching this mess

One thing for sure, I never expected you to claim I was lying about this. But obviously you do. Just remember this.

No Pit - you made a claim but then avoided a direct answer to any of the specific questions I asked regarding the claim. Not one Q answered.

And regardless if you had or not - your post sort of made the point Purpple made that I was agreeing with, that some posters didn't want weather to be an excuse for some QB's. In a really bad weather game - your comment was that 'some folks might have said the weather wasn't too bad'. No idea why you wanted to try and pick a fight but that's the way it read from the get go. If that wasn't your intent - maybe re-read what you wrote and explain how I was supposed to interpret your comments ?? 'Were you at the game' sounds a bit like saying posters can't criticize the coaching staff because none of us have done that job and are unqualified.

All I was saying is that according to people who were there the weather wasn't as bad at the stadium as reports were indicating. I do think it's unfair to criticize a coach based on weather while people in the stadium claim was not as bad as those who were not there make them out to be. And I also believe that people try to analyze every detail of NFL coaches who have no idea what they're talking about and are totally unqualified to do so. We see it all the time.

Let me give you an example. Posters will sit there and claim Stefanski should have made the exact call the opposition would have been expecting him to make. As if trying to catch the opposing defense off guard by calling something that they AREN'T expecting is a terrible thing. It's craziness.

You certainly did act as if I made that up. There's no question about it. As you yourself said, "explain how I was supposed to interpret your comments ??" You can interpret my comments any way you want to. Not everything that disagrees with your every word is "trying to pick a fight". But if a fight is what you want you came to the right place.

j/c

If you've been in the stadium enough you know that the weather in the stands can be very different than that on the field by looking at the wind whipping the pants and coats of the players and refs...or the large American flag that ate Brandon Weeden one day.

I can't tell you how many times have I seen the flags on the goal posts completely flat on one side of the field and whipping on the other.

$.02

Agreed. Went to the a game last year, kind of last second decision. 4:00 game. Cold, windy, and blowing snow pretty decent. Where we sat, it was fine, but you could see it was extremely different on the field.

You make an interesting observation that you’re not allowed to criticize Kev on here because although he is having a great season he is still deserving of criticism.

I say interesting because you didn’t take that stance with Baker. One guy you were in love with, the other not. Two different sets of rules depending on the emotional attachment.

I criticized Baker plenty - he was deserving of criticism when he played badly or acted immaturely or was out out of condition and badly prepared one year. I think it'd possibly be more accurate to say that you didn't want to ever acknowledge when he played well... but that's pretty much water under the bridge unless you are trying to rehash that debate. If you want to stick to the one isolated comment that Purple made - it might be simpler. I agree with what he said, do you agree or disagree with Purple?

I guess we can make it simple. You said posters said the weather wasn't that bad. You can see from links posted by ScottP.F. that the wind was 35 mph and sleet. If it was blowing consistently at 35mph - I imgaine the gusts were higher. Do yoiu want to agree with whatever posters said it wasn't that bad - or would you agree that maybe some of those comments might have been example of pricesly the point Purple made in his post above?

The only thing I agree with is that Baker had a rolleroaster of a four year span here with good and bad play, in good weather or bad weather. I both praised and criticized him plenty, with I'm sure an emphasis on the criticism. Probably my biggest criticism of Baker is that he was good when there were no expectations and poor when he had the weight of expectations on his shoulders. Tampa should proceed very cautiously with respect to this trend.

I thought your observation that Kev has been good when the chips are down and been poor when his circumstances were more favorable a pretty interesting parallel to Baker. Which got me thinking you didn't view Baker through the same lense that you are viewing Kev. I find it lacking in objectivity depending on emotions. Additionally a lot of the Baker fans here hold Kev responsible for that relationship not working out and the team moving on. They are exta critical of everything Kev does. You are on the fringe of that group.

For what it's worth I agree with you about Kev. I still think he deserves a lot of praise for this season but your observation about how he trends is pretty accurate. No one has done less with more. He's flipped the script this season. Hopefully that's a sign of things to come.

I'm not sure why you insist on continuing this and at the same time claiming it's someone else who wants to fight. But I've seen that a lot on here.

At first you claimed 50 mph wind. Now it's 35. At first you claimed it was raining so hard it was raining sideways. Now you've reduced that to sleet. It would seem from your ever changing description you yourself aren't quite sure what the weather was like that day. And that was a big part of it too. Your claim about it "raining sideways". The posters who attended the game said it was more of a sleet or drizzle. I'm pretty sure that didn't change based on where someone was sitting compared to the field.