If ever there was an area where the ''analytics'' folks could do something to help the Browns, it is to take an ''honest'' look at the Browns approach to player health and conditioning. The Browns health and conditioning program has to be near the bottom of all 32 teams when it comes to players injured and out and on IR the Browns approach to player health and conditioning must be one of the worst of all NFL franchises.

The Browns ''analytics crew'' needs to do an honest assessment of the Browns approach to conditioning and strength and weight training.
JMHO, but the Browns training and conditioning is TOO SOFT and if the Browns don't scrap the existing training program, we can expect nothing but a continuation of the current trend, with the Cleveland Browns Health and Training Program being rated as one of the worst conditioned franchises in the NFL.

Heads need to roll as the failure of the Browns ''strength and conditioning program'' is being exposed every week with a new rash of Browns players put on the IR list.


Strength and conditioning-link
Director of high performance – Shaun Huls
Director of strength and conditioning – Larry Jackson
Assistant strength and conditioning/sports science – Josh Christovich
Assistant strength and conditioning – Monty Gibson
Assistant strength and conditioning – Dale Jones
Assistant strength and conditioning – Evan Marcus
Director of performance nutrition – Katy Meassick

I expect the Cleveland Browns management AND OWNER to do their own assessment of the the Cleveland Browns Strength and Conditioning program and FIX IT.

How freaking hard is it for the Browns' owner and management team to survey the NFL franchises with the most successful Strength and Conditioning programs in the NFL and incorporate what those franchises are doing with the goal of turning the Browns Strength and Conditioning Program from one of the worst in the NFL and build into one of THE BEST staffs that Haslam's money can buy.

Fix the Browns Strength and Conditioning department and it will pay BIG DIVIDENDS in return.

This is a very timely article from ANTHONY MOEGLINNOV 29, 2023 9:35 AM EST ...who took the time to put a dollar value on the Browns injury problem.


Quantifying All of The 2023 Browns' Injuries

We say it on camera, we write it in our stories so let's put a number on the injuries that the Browns have experienced this year.
ANTHONY MOEGLINNOV 29, 2023 9:35 AM EST 
link
 
 

This Cleveland Browns team is one of the most injured teams of all time. The Browns have lost star players, starters and backups. Guys at every level have fallen to injury and have left this great roster scratching their heads. 

We have said it so many times in our stories and in our videos so let's put a number to this injury report so that we can really wrap our hands around exactly what Kevin Stefanski and this team are experiencing.

To date, each of these players has missed time. The money lost is an account of their salary and the percentage of games missed. An asterisk indicates that the guy is done for the season. 
 
Nick Chubb - $13,976,470 *
Deshaun Watson - $12,331,000 *
Jack Conklin - $7,785,522 *
Jakeem Grant - $1,796,666 *
Denzel Ward - $1,110,465
Jacob Phillips - $1,104,500 *
Jederick Wills Jr. - $799,146
Greg Newsome - $632,168
Mike Woods III - $517,072 *
Rodney McLeod - $449,852 *
Juan Thornhill- $205,818
Dawand Jones - $170,654
Anthony Walker - $99,318
Dorian Thompson-Robinson - TBD 
Amari Cooper - TBD
Myles Garrett - TBD

TOTAL - $40,978,651

For the guys who have only missed portions of this season, I took their Cap Hit number and multiplied it by the percentage of games missed to this point. The total is not a fixed number and will increase as the weeks go on. All salary cap numbers were provided by Spotrac.
 

The names on this list are amazing and the fact that the Browns have a seven-and-four record is an incredible feat. It's hard to not imagine what the outlook of this team would be if even half of these guys stayed healthy throughout the year. 

The Browns have an uphill battle to climb to just make the playoffs and at this point, the question isn't how can they get there, it's how much more can they take?



BY ANTHONY MOEGLIN

Anthony Moeglin is a northeast Ohio native, who most notably quarterbacked John Carroll University to the NCAA DIII National Semifinals in 2016 after beating the No. 1 team in the country twice in a 4-week stretch. He contributes written and video/podcast content for Browns Digest, as well as serving as the lead football analyst for BuckeyesNow on the FanNation network.

I'd be curious to see the ratio of guys we have on IR compared to other teams ... perhaps it's just bad luck that we have KEY guys on IR this season.

Injuries seem to dominate each week ... but you wonder if there's some sort of trend with us in particular

It seems that the "root of the problem" with the Browns Strength and Conditioning program might date back to April 2016, when major changes were made to the Browns S & C program. Below is an article that addresses the changes that were made. Just my opinion, but it does seem that the issue of the mounting injuries to our players might have began at that point in time.

That is just a guess on my part and hopefully someone has the information that can add some facts to backup the origins of the Browns mounting injury issues. Below is an article that addresses the origin of the point in time when the Browns made changes to their S/C program.


Browns' revamped strength and condition program features tailorized training for every position
 
Tony Grossi, ESPN Cleveland
Apr 4, 2016, 09:11 AM ET
link
 

Next level: You want outside the box? You want “next level” thinking? Well, check this out. The Browns have seven strength coaches. That’s right. Seven.

When the Browns entered the NFL in 1950, Paul Brown had a coaching staff of four assistants. Total.

Yes, things evolve over 66 years. But seven strength coaches?

Basically, each position group has its own strength and conditioning coach.

This is the brainchild of Adam Beard, who holds the title of Browns director of high performance.

Beard is a native of Australia who answered the call of a recruiting agency and left as head of physical performance of the Welsh Rugby Union last summer to join the Browns. He spent the entire 2015 season essentially observing the Browns’ operations and American football in general in preparation for revamping the way the Browns think about training their bodies to maximize performance and minimize injuries.

The result is a fairly drastic, non-traditional football approach to strength and conditioning that may be a culture shock to players convening on Monday for the official start of the program.

And the most obvious change to the way the Browns -- and most every NFL team -- have been doing things starts with assigning a specific strength coach to tailor training regimens to the nuances of each position group.

 

“You look at the coaching structure and you have your head coach and coordinators and position coaches,” Beard told me in a thick Australian accent. “I think it’s important that, in terms of performance, you have to have a look at the needs analyses for different positions.

“I read an interview with Jim Brown and he said when he was a running back it didn’t make sense for him to do the same strength and conditioning as an offensive lineman.”

Beard, who has trained track and field athletes, likens it to a javelin thrower needing different training methods than a sprinter or long-distance runner.

Sport science evolution: When NFL teams first inaugurated strength training as a part of daily football life in the 1980s, the strength coach generally was a former player not good enough to play football professionally who knew the head coach and was tasked with barking at players and motivating them to pump iron months before they had to report to training camp.

The first Browns’ strength coach was Dave “Red Man” Redding, a former Nebraska defensive lineman and a colorful character with an orange beard. Redding developed one of the league’s first conditioning programs under coach Sam Rutigliano, and then followed Rutigliano’s successor, Marty Schottenheimer, to Kansas City, Washington and San Diego before ending his career with the Green Bay Packers and a Super Bowl championship after 24 years in the league.

Nowadays, conditioning is a science. Beard’s resume is long and loaded with international training positions and academic achievements.

He was head of physical performance for the Welsh Rugby Union. Head of fitness for British and Irish Lions rugby. Strength and conditioning coach at Western Australia Institute of Sport, English Institute of Sport and Aspire Academy of Sports Excellence.

He has a masters of sports science in biomechanics and is working toward a doctorate in hypoxic exercise physiology from the Université de Lausanne in Lausanne, Switzerland.

“It’s a fancy word for altitude,” Beard said. “Hypoxic environment [is] when you’re in a plane.”

With that academic background, Beard last year made recommendations to reduce jet lag on the team’s trips across three time zones to San Diego and Seattle.

Now, if he can just reduce the occurrence of hamstring injuries and concussions.

Keeping up: The appointment of Beard to reorganize and reconstruct the way the Browns look at training and nutrition is a function of the organization’s reliance on analytics and new technology to plot its future direction.

When it comes to training, however, the Browns are not at the forefront, but rather trying to keep pace.

At the NFL owners meetings last month, Arizona Cardinals coach Bruce Arians spoke of his team’s use of technology in monitoring players’ training regimens and performance.

“The gadgets we have ... I call our strength coach Gizmo,” Arians said. “He’s got a phone that measures the speed of the ball. They have a chip they put in the ball and they measure the speed, how many revolutions they’re throwing at the start of practice compared to the end of practice after 150 throws.

“The conditioning -- strength drills and warmups -- it’s light-years to where it used to be. So I think all these guys are getting better at [age] 33, 34, 35.

"We have [stuff] all over. [We measure] heart rates, how far they run. There’s a guy, that’s his job. He’s got a computer at the end of the field monitoring all those guys.”

Beard takes over a team that led the NFL with 16 concussion injuries in 2015 and routinely had a dozen players missing practice with assorted soft-tissue injuries.

 

“The big thing about pro sport is you want to increase performance but you want to decrease injury,” Beard said. “That’s a really hard paradigm. Because you’ve got to push men to the lengths of making them more powerful and stronger than the average man. There are going to be injuries. I’d be lying if I said we’re not going to get any injuries any more. We just have to learn from them.

“I think it’s an evolution. We have to make sure that guys peak on Sunday. You can develop a lot of those physical qualities in its purity away from contact and competition, but it’s how we maximize that and reduce the detriment of power and speed without getting too many injuries.”

More than 30 years ago, the Browns' were at the forefront of the strength and conditioning movement in the NFL. They got flabby and soft and lost their way. And now they have an army of sports scientists and high performance experts to straighten them out.

Do you really believe that if there was some kind proven superior way to do strength and conditioning that the Browns or for that matter any NFL team that it would Not be done?

Football is like a car accident. It is a collision sport. The contact can happen in a million different ways.

Injuries are random.

Football players because of the nature of the sport train damn near year around. They are in football shape. Everyone of them have specific training schedules. In addition many have to go through many forms of rehab which all occurs under the supervision of highly trained medical professionals.

You are grasping at straws.

Are you surprised?

That was my thought as I was reading these articles. Especially the one written by the former John Carrol QB. I kept waiting to read his credentials asor career as a high-end physical therapist/sports medicine background.

IF you really look at our injuries I don't a lot of critical ones that could be related to conditioning. Let us look at some, shall we?



Chubb : was drilled in his knee while being stood up by defenders.

Watson: was drilled in the shoulder running the ball. If only he had done more heavy lifting with that had shoulder arm.

Myles: Shoulder injury. Do you want to suggest that Myles is not properly conditioned.

Conklin: knee injury

Wills: knee injury

Jones: Another knee on a 380lb body.

Concussions I can think of: DTR, Ward, Amari, Anthony Walker.


Maybe muscle/tissue injuries like Delpit, Newsome, McCloud could be related to conditioning.

Other teams have injuries. How many backup QBs have started this season for NFL teams.

The thing is that from the perspective of the overall cap space in injuries the Browns are at the top, however a closer inspection shows the Browns are not the team with the most injuries or the most players on injured reserve. There are several teams with both more injuries and more on injured reserve. But of course in some people's zeal to paint the most negative picture possible none of that is shown. Here's a look at all the NFL teams injuries and an overview.....

Reserve/Injured Summary By Team

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/injured-reserve/

I know as it stands Browns fans "feel like" they're the most unlucky team in terms of injuries and maybe if you broke that down to the most injuries among key positions that's true. I don't know. But as it pertains to the total injuries on NFL teams the Browns aren't even close to the team having the most injuries.

If the Browns are ever going to build a "winning franchise" those running the franchise cannot accept a subpar strength and conditioning program. I know I'm not the only one questioning what the hell is going on with all the Browns injuries.

Cleveland Browns strength and conditioning program is failing

By Elliot Kennel | Nov 4, 2021
link


The Cleveland Browns are earning a failing grade in strength and conditioning.

This long-overdue article calls out the strength and conditioning program of the Cleveland Browns.


Let’s look at some numbers. Remember, the idea was that the Browns were going to rest up after a long break following the Thursday game, and play the aging, decrepit Steelers, right? Readers of this space were warned that that was not true.

Just look at the injury report.

The Cleveland Browns had 19 players listed on their injury report. The Steelers had only six.

Next week’s opponent, the Cincinnati Bengals, played a terrible game versus the Jets. But you know what? They only had five players on their injury report. Nobody has injury reports like the Browns.

Not only that, Cleveland has four players on their Injured Reserve list with soft tissue injuries: fullback Andy Janovich, halfback Kareem Hunt, defensive back M.J. Stewart, and center Nick Harris. In all, six of the 19 players on the injury list have what appear to be soft tissue injuries.

Three of the six Steelers on the injury list were there with soft tissue injuries, including old Ben Roethlisberger, who always has aches and pains, and Chase Claypool who had a full practice by the end of the week and started. The Steelers do not have anyone on IR with a soft tissue injury.

The Browns and their fans think that they have a premier offensive line, but it’s time to admit that it’s not true, at least not on a week-to-week basis. On a per-snap basis, Baker Mayfield is second in the NFL at getting sacked, having taken 22 sacks in 460 snaps. That’s one sack every 20.9 snaps. Only Justin Fields has had a tougher time, with an astounding 26 sacks in only 408 snaps, or one sack every 15.7 snaps. .

The point is that quarterbacks who are getting pasted like this rarely have good seasons and usually wind up on IR.

Man for man, it could not be more clear that the Pittsburgh defense was able to overpower Cleveland’s offensive line. The Browns players are just weaker than their Pittsburgh counterparts.

This is not a new problem. Back in 2015, running backs coach Wilbert Montgomery called out his players for showing up to summer camp in less than stellar condition, with the result being a rash of minor muscle pulls. He probably could have said the same thing to the entire 2021 team.

"“The disappointing thing was that all those guys not being in tip-top shape. I think that was a total setback and now they are climbing back up hill….your job is to get hit and your job is being able to bounce back from injuries really quickly because it’s most like playing a game every week. Each day you’ve got to be healthy and ready to go and you’ve got to play injured, you’ve got to play sore and you’ve got to play banged up. And if you can’t play with those things, you really can’t play.” – Browns running backs coach Wilbert Montgomery, quoted by Mary Kay Cabot, Cleveland.com, Aug 9, 2015"

Any one injury might be unavoidable and might not be the fault of the player. Certainly, if the player breaks a bone or ruptures a ligament or something, conditioning is not at fault. Also, it’s one thing if a veteran with several surgeries has recurring problems, but the Browns have first and second-year players routinely missing time with pulled muscles. It’s just the magnitude of the number of injuries.

Is there any other team in the NFL close to the Cleveland Browns in terms of pulling hamstrings? It’s year after year after year and we’ve grown used to it. But this is not normal.

Most of us fans thought at the beginning of the season that Cleveland had a truly deep team with real talent even on the practice squad. This isn’t true. At any point in time, with 15 to 20 players on the injured list, that means that there are only about 35 players who are healthy enough to have practice during the week. This is crazy. The Browns are the thinnest team in the NFL and have to populate the practice field with practice squad players just to have practice.

Something is way wrong with the way that the Browns are carrying out their conditioning program. From the outside, we cannot see what is going wrong, but there must be something wrong, judging from the poor results that are all too apparent.

We cannot say whether it is diet, hydration, cardio, weight training, aerobic exercise, anaerobic exercise, or what. But these soft tissue injuries among young players are a sure sign that something is wrong somewhere and they need to get it fixed.

If Cleveland cannot fix it, they are going to continue to get beat up by the Steelers year after year after year no matter many free agents they sign or how many first round quarterbacks they draft.

So let’s not even talk about drafting some kid in 2022 or trading away a bunch of first-round picks for Deshaun Watson or some other high-priced players to fix the team at the trade deadline this week. Not after losing to the Steelers at home with 19 guys on the injury list and four more on IR with soft tissue injuries. That just isn’t going to fix the team.

I want to know if the Browns have strength and conditioning coaches and trainers who are truly at the top of their profession. Do they understand injury prevention, and how are you able to measure their expertise?

Are they on top of the latest methodologies for avoiding muscle pulls and other injuries? For example, when is the last time each employee took a university class invoving sports medicine and training? What plan do they use, and how do they know it works?

Do the Browns know what the Steelers, Bengals, and Ravens are doing? Whatever the Browns are doing now, they need to be doing something different because the 2021 program is the pits.

If Cleveland is missing eight players due to soft tissue injuries and another half dozen are playing hurt; and the Steelers have only one player out and three playing hurt, who do you think is going to win?

My problem is I believe the Browns have better athletes, but I also believe deep down that, the Steelers, Ravens and even the Bengals just have better strength and conditioning training and it is starting to show at the midpoint of this disappointing season.

They are going to manhandle the Browns down the stretch while key players have to sit on exercise bikes hoping to get well. Better order a few extras, because these hamstring injuries are not going away.

Elliot Kennel - I cover mainly personnel decisions, salary cap, team building and the human element of football. I watch semi-pro, high school, college XFL and NFL ball, it's all good. I follow all four teams in the AFC North and write about the Cleveland Browns.

https://dawgpounddaily.com/author/ekennel/

What is his expertise in strength and conditioning again?

Pitt...I went back 4 or 5 yrs and the Browns were in the upper 1/3 of total IR nearly every year...in 2021, the Browns led the NFL with the most total players on IR.

I'm sorry, but there is something wrong with the Browns Strength and Conditioning Program. I look at the list with an entirely different approach than you have. I look at those teams that have the best results from their Strength and Conditioning programs. I look for trends and then I compare the Browns numbers to those teams that have the best results.

There were some teams that had a history of lower numbers on IR...I ask the question...WHAT ARE THOSE TEAMS DOING DIFFERENT THAN THE BROWNS..?

Then I would challenge our staff to try to duplicate those teams that have a high success rate, with the fewest number of players on IR. One of the best franchises won the Super Bowl last year...Browns might want to be smart and try to find out what KC does differently than the Browns.

The damn IR list could be the greatest obstical facing the Browns and it needs to be taken seriously..and not have a defeatist attitude like OH WELL, NOTHING THE BROWNS CAN DO ABOUT THAT...

The number of Browns on IR is a very serious issue and needs to be addressed.

Mary Kay Cabot
@MaryKayCabot
·
6m
#Browns left tackle Jed Wills Jr. underwent arthroscopic surgery this morning and is out for the season, source says

You make a lot of accusations, ask a lot of questions but are lacking in substance. You haven't pointed to a single thing that the strength and conditioning department have done or is doing wrong.

Pointing those things out is not a defeatist attitude and you still can't face the obvious that several NFL teams have more injuries and more players on injured reserve than the Browns.

I do agree with your over-arching point that the Browns should take a hard look at their S&C program, but you gotta look at it over the long-term, and compare to other teams. This year is crazy, and freak injury years do happen (Ravens went through similar last year).

You also have to acknowledge that some injuries just can't be avoided regardless of how well you've prepared for the rigors of the NFL. Chubb got hurt on a brutal hit to the knee, Watson because he somehow hasn't learned how to slide, all the concussions, Conklin's body has simply degraded to glass.

With the soft-tissue stuff, I absolutely agree with you. I've felt that we pick those types of injuries up at a crazy pace... but this year those seem to be down (this is just my feeling after peeking at the injury list each week).

There are other areas (like lower-body/joint injuries on linemen) where I'd be really curious to see if changes to S&C could help. When I ran cross-country in high school and college, strengthening and stabilizing the ankles was always a priority (did quick resistance exercises with bands). I always felt that helped on missteps while running on uneven ground. My example is probably not applicable to 300-400 lb men slamming into and stepping on each other, but maybe there is an equivalent... I honestly don't know.

This article is from 2021. It took me a while to realize it and was questioning because I was trying to figure why Andy Janovich was mentioned.

Let me know what those routines are. I've been running on neighborhood trails through the woods by Kyle's Station and damn near thought my ankles were going to disintegrate last week. Don't know what I did. Got new shoes, which has helped.

I challenge you to use your own data and tell everyone that the Browns don't have a problem with the number of injuries. I used your data to show that the Browns have had an issue dating back a number of years, with the Browns being near the upper 1/3 of teams with the most injuries in the NFL.

Try to be honest about the trend that is being shown...and admit it is not a good trend if the franchise is looking to be a consistant winner in the NFL. The article below is just another that touches on the Browns problem with so many injuries. The article is dated March 25, 2021 and again, I post it to show the trend the Browns have had over the last few year.

It's a trend that will keep the Browns from ever winning a Super Bowl if THE BRAIN TRUST of the Browns do not turn it around.


The injury stat that proves the Cleveland Browns are even better than you think: Doug Lesmerises

Updated: Mar. 25, 2021, 9:18 a.m.|Published: Mar. 25, 2021, 6:15 a.m.
link


If the Browns’ health could be even league average in 2021, that would be another way in which they can take a step forward.

Football Outsiders provided new context with rankings this week that compiled games lost last season, with an emphasis on the players who matter most. Here’s their nuanced definition of how they produce their rankings of “adjusted games lost.”

Adjusted games lost captures that distinction with separate weightings of starters, replacement starters, situational players, and bench players. In addition, the metric adjusts the weightings of active players who appeared on their teams’ injury reports prior to playing to account for an anticipated decrease in effectiveness while playing hurt.

They ranked all 32 teams both on adjusted games lost to injury and COVID, and to those only lost to typical injury. I think the combined ranking tells you the most, because it was a crazy season, and luck, both good and bad, played an even greater role. Sixty-seven players opted-out of the season because of COVID concerns. Others missed time because they were diagnosed with COVID, or because they were held out by close contact monitoring.

The Browns, with their Week 16 wipeout of the receiver room by COVID, directly lost a game to the Jets as a result.

So guess which team had the fewest missed games last season? Why ... it was the Super Bowl champion Tampa Buccaneers, with 30.6 adjusted games lost in the Football Outsiders formula.

Which team had the most games missed? The San Francisco 49ers, who went from the Super Bowl the year before to 6-10 and last place in the NFC West.

Of the 13 teams with winning records last season, which did it while dealing with the most adjusted games lost?

Obviously, the Browns. Again, the metric measures a player’s value, so the Browns didn’t rank high just because they were second in the NFL in full opt-outs with five. Three of those players had little effect, but backup offensive lineman Drew Forbes and rotational defensive tackle Andrew Billings mattered. But this is putting a number of everything they lost with Delpit, Williams, Beckham, the five games lost by Wyatt Teller, the four lost by Nick Chubb, the two by Myles Garrett, and more.

Injuries are part of the game. The Browns won through them better than any team.

With Tampa (30.6 adjusted games lost) at No. 1 and San Francisco (166.6 adjusted games lost) at No. 32, Football Outsiders ranked the Browns No. 22 with 89.7 adjusted games lost in the overall metric, combining injuries and COVID. Without COVID, the Browns were still No. 22, Tampa was still No. 1 and San Francisco was still No. 32.

Reviewing some other playoff teams, Pittsburgh missed 55.2 games, Baltimore 59.6, Buffalo 63.1 and Kansas City 65.2.

The 2020 issues on defense are easier to take with the reminder that the lost games were focused there. In offensive games lost, the Browns ranked No. 11. In defensive games lost, they were No. 27.

That’s it. That’s the point. They played hurt and won. While it happened, I think some people didn’t take it into account enough. The favorable schedule got a lot of attention. The lost players, I felt, not as much. It’s because injuries are so prevalent, and no one wants to use them as an excuse in a violent sport.

These Football Outsiders numbers tell a story. The Browns saw players miss more than their fair share of games last season and still were one of the final eight teams standing. Imagine if they have more injury luck on their side this year.

Pitt and others..l posted this article to point out that the Browns have had an injury issue dating back years, 4 yrs in this case. The TREND was not good and THE TREND IS NOT GETTING BETTER. Some tried to make that point years ago...and the Browns didn't find a fix to change that trend and that is on OWNERSHIP AND BROWNS MANAGEMENT.

DePo must have hired the strength and conditioning team.

How does "strength and conditioning" prevent: Concussions, blown out knee, jacked up shoulders, another knee, etc?

It does not prevent any of those injuries.

When 300 lb. guys land on players and they are in awkward positions like being rolled up on. Joints get damaged.

I have been saying for years that the playing surface is a major cause of injury. Many concussions are caused when the head slams back into turf.

Spikes used on turf get velcro like traction. There is little give when players legs are hit. The joints get torn up.

Analytics.

Yeah stuff like that, jfan.

Now instead of getting the FO and coaches fired, because we’re 8-5 despite all the injuries, let’s see if we can run the athletic trainers out of town.
Might as well give pink slips to the nutrition staff. They’re obviously screwing up the vegetable portions.

Cool should we narrow it down to Shaun, Larry, Josh, Monty, Dale, Ty, Katy, Carson, or Anthony?

morning GM...hard to admit the Browns have a failed strength and conditioning group but the figures do not lie. NFL teams like Green Bay and Kansas City show a trend that is the opposite of the Browns with both having fewer injuries than the Browns over the last few years.

How freaking hard is it for the Browns to admit their strength and conditioning program is SUB-PAR, compared to franchises like GB and KC..?

How hard is it to copy a S&C program of those teams that have shown successful trends, with fewest injuries by the time the playoffs arrive.

No one is hired in Cleveland without the approval of those at the top of the franchise and nothing will change within the S&C program without the approval of those who are responsible for making such decisions.

If those at the top honestly want to build a Browns franchise that is a successful and able to compete for a shot at a Super Bowl on an annual basis, changes must be made within the S&C program...simple as that..!

These guys and gals are hired to do a job..

Support staff
Senior assistant/special projects - Kevin Rogers
Coordinator of coaching logistics – Riley Hecklinski

Strength and conditioning
Director of high performance – Shaun Huls
Director of strength and conditioning – Larry Jackson
Assistant strength and conditioning/sports science – Josh Christovich
Assistant strength and conditioning – Monty Gibson
Assistant strength and conditioning – Dale Jones
Assistant strength and conditioning – Evan Marcus
Director of performance nutrition – Katy Meassick



The question becomes, are these the people responsible for developing the present Browns S&C program..?

OR, are these folks following a S&C program that originated from someone at the top of the franchise..?

The trend line for injuries is obvious and as this season progresses and the injuries continue to mount as the Browns announced the loss of two more starters being placed on IR just yesterday.

The Browns S&C program is a failure if the goal is to condition the Browns players to help PREVENT INJURIES and promote DURABILITY.

Why would any NFL team continue a failed program for years if the program showed terrible results?

How hard is it to admit that the present Browns S&C program is a failure and the best path forward is to look at those franchises that have a history of establishing successful S&C programs that do produce the kind of results the Browns say they are seeking?

It is rather obvious that those at the top of the Browns franchise must accept responsibility for the continuation of the Browns failed S&C program.

The buck stops at the TOP..!

Your conclusions on this are so far of base that it is not a worthy topic.

Based on what?

Based on he wishes Freddie Kitchens and John Dorsey would come back.

They don't lie, they're just not actually saying what you're saying. You reference an article that talks mostly about COVID holdouts in the COVID year, which is not at all applicable. You post an article further up about players showing up out of shape... also not applicable. You post these articles thinking nobody is going to actually read them and pay attention. These articles are saying 1/2 - 3/4 of what you're saying, and you're trying to fill in the rest with assumption and innuendo.

I do think the FO should look at the trending of certain injuries. Soft-tissue injuries (pulls and some tears) should absolutely fall within a standard deviation of league average. Point is, we don't know... but I know that's not going to stop you from grinding that axe.

Based on innuendo and nothing more.

Based on the total IR numbers for each team accumulated over a period of each of the last 4 or 5 yrs.

As I said earlier, I looked for trends, such as which teams had lower rates of players on IR and whether those teams were successful on the field over the same years.

Understand this "everyone"...it's not just me that writing about this subject. Do some searching and see what you find. I have posted some articles but there are more writings available.

Also, look at the money the Browns are spending on the players who are producing nothing on field as they heal while on IR. Building a better Strength and Conditioning Program would help to pay for itself if it could produce players who were better prepared to endure the physical beating players are subjected to over a 17 game season.

I want the Browns to be the best possible team they can be and I do look for areas of weakness, knowing that correcting the weakest areas of the Browns should produce the greatest positive results.

Now please explain what blown out knees have to do with strength and conditioning. What concussions have to do with strength and conditioning. What Covid had to do with strength and conditioning and what players coming into camp out of shape has to do with the strength and conditioning department.

Magic? It has to be something, so I am going with magic, after of course an incompetent FO, coaching staff and owner. One thing I am pretty sure it isn't the announcer. Or is it? Has anyone checked to see if more players are injured when Jimmy D does the games? Gotta be worth looking at.

So, based on purely circumstantial data and conjecture.
You're saying they should look at other programs while knowing absolutely NOTHING about our program, much less any of the programs you're suggesting they look at, OR whether or not they already do look at those other programs.

There are some things that Strength & Conditioning just cannot account for and big ass collisions is one of them.
Guys diving to make tackles out of position is another.
Guys reaching out to tackle a guy going past them is one more.
Legs getting rolled up on is another.
Getting your knee blown out because it is forcibly bent in directions it shouldn't go is another.

On top of it all, you have to always be riding a fine line between flexibility and explosiveness. Well stretched, elongated, muscles are not explosive. Muscles that aren't explosive are not fast. You want the body warmed, but not totally loose. On top of that, every individual is different and responds differently. There are no "one size fits all" solutions.

Even if those are your feelings it still has nothing to do with injuries.

Browns have lost 14 key players to multi-game injuries this season


December 12, 2023 5:43 pm ET
Tyler Greenawalt, USA Today Sports
link


The Cleveland Browns have endured some devastating injuries this season.

The Browns currently have 12 players on injured reserve after offensive tackle Dawand Jones and defensive tackle Maurice Hurst were added this week. That number is tied for fifth in the NFL, per Spotrac.

However, the players who’ve landed on said reserve list have been major Browns contributors. Key Week 1 starters like offensive tackle Jack Conklin and running back Nick Chubb were lost by Weeks 1 and 2, respectively, while offense tackle Jedrick Wills Jr. and quarterback Deshaun Watson joined them by Weeks 10 and 11, respectively.

And yet, the Browns sit at No. 5 in the AFC playoff picture with an 8-5 record. They control their playoff destiny with four games left and veteran quarterback Joe Flacco at the helm.

Give credit where credit is due – head coach Kevin Stefanski has this team believing that no one injury can tank their seasonal hopes.

It’s still daunting, though, to see so many big names on the injured list. Here are 14 important Browns players who’ve already missed or are expected to miss at least three games this season.

QB Deshaun Watson (shoulder) – injured reserve since Week 11
RB Nick Chubb (knee) – injured reserve since Week 2
OT Jack Conklin (knee) – injured reserve since Week 1
OT Jedrick Wills Jr. (knee) – injured reserve since Week 10
WR Jakeem Grant (knee) – injured reserve since preseason
OT Dawand Jones (knee) – injured reserve since Week 14
S Rodney McLeod (biceps) – injured reserve since Week 11
LB Jacob Phillips (pectoral) – injured reserve since preseason
OT Ty Nsekhe (biceps) – injured reserve since Week 8
DT Maurice Hurst (pectoral) – injured reserve since Week 15
CB Cameron Mitchell (hamstring) missed 4 games
WR Marquise Goodwin (concussion) missed 4 games
CB Denzel Ward (shoulder) – missed 3 games
S Juan Thornhill (calf) – missed 3 games


This story first appeared on USA Today within the last 24 hours, I'm not even sure if the story is up to date as now.

The better approach for anyone looking to change things - or just throw shade - would be to start with identifying how many of those injuries absolutely could have been prevented by changes in the S&C program.

So, of the players that have gone on IR, or have missed multiple games, which ones would have benefitted from doing something different?

pit..not sure if you ever played football, but I did and we had special exercises to build up and protect our knees. In my 5 yrs (4 in HS, 1 in college), I never suffered a knee injury...between my junior and senior year, I did develop my own conditioning program which I credit for remaining healthy my senior season.

If you don't know the answers to your own questions, I'm not going be of any help to you.

So you think that strength and conditioning coaches for the Browns don't know as much now as your high school coaches and yourself knew decades ago? If you can't see how far you are reaching here I don't think anyone can help you. The impact that knees take in the NFL and the subsequent injuries that result from those impacts can not be stopped by conditioning.

prp.."throw shade"..? What the hell is that about.

You might be such "a Browns Homer" that you can't even admit to yourself when the Browns have a real issue that will likely prevent the Browns from ever challenging for a Super Bowl appearance with the chances of ever winning a Super Bowl having longer and nearly impossible odds...and you don't believe it is an issue?

I have cited stories that have been published recently...you think they are all reading dawgtalk and are following my line of thinking, writing about the Browns injury issues only after first reading this thread..?

I've wanted to write on this subject for the last two seasons but have only touched on the issues that I'm concerned with.

The time has come for "all homers" to admit, that if the Browns don't do something to cut down on the number of injuries, the Cleveland Browns are not going to ever win a Super Bowl.

This IS THE TIME to bring this subject up if we ever hope to change anything that might help the Browns take the field next season with a better, healthier roster of players.

1. if the use of the term "throw shade" upset you, you know exactly what it is about. So don't feign innocence or ignorance

2. I'm no homer. I fancy myself quite the realist, bordering on pessimist. I actually prefer at all times to call things for what they are, and right now, that is calling out things that aren't based on anything substantial while lacking any credibility whatsoever.

3. WE don't change anything. WE don't identify anything. WE - and this definitely includes YOU - don't even know what exactly they do currently.


Now, I repeat: take the list of injuries that has you so concerned that you have decided the Strength & Conditioning team is at fault and tell us which ones would absolutely have been avoided by a change in the S&C program. What should have been done differently from the current state of things?

You haven't shown any evidence that it is a "real issue" other than throw shade.

pit...I know that you like to stir the pot and make assumptions as if they are fact...thus the reality is, you just make crap up so you can continue to argue.

I can relate my experiences and use my own strength and conditioning program that I used as an example and I know that you would try to crap on me for even thinking my experiences could relate to todays game.

I never compared what I did to any other program or claimed that my method of dealing with conditioning and training was superior to anything..did I?

I never claimed that my program for preventing injuries was the best method the best method for ANYONE ELSE, did I..??

I never claimed that it was my HS coach who advised me on how to develop my own off-season workout regimen ..DID I..?

Pit...it was YOU THAT manufactured these assumptions so you could ARGUE. It's so damn close to simply making up lies in order to prolong an argument...ISN'T IT..?

I relate my own experiences concerning my own knowledge of Strength and Conditioning programs to assure board member that I know enough about the Browns Strength and Conditioning program to recognize when the desired results are not being produced.

I expect the Browns strength and conditioning approach to be superior to what I practiced in HS and College...but the results have not been produced by the Browns approach for the last 4 or 5 yrs. It is not a one year issue that the Browns are dealing with and that is the main reason the issue needs to addressed now if we are to expect better results next season.

So, tell us, please, what was your strength and conditioning program in high school? Detailed. And while you're telling us, please also tell us WHERE you played high school football - what division?

That was the very purpose of you creating this entire thread. To cast shade on the strength and conditioning staff in order to stir controversy. And yet you continue. Of course it isn't the first time people have pointed the finger at others for what they themselves are doing. It's actually become quite the trend.


It's because they don't realate to today's strength. It didn't even relate to the NFL level back then. i played high school football as well. The difference is I'm not fooling myself into thinking that some high school program in the 70's has anything to do with strength and conditioning in the NFL in the 21st century.


Let me get this straight. You posted about your own strength and conditioning because now you claim it has nothing to do with today's NFL strength and conditioning. I simply pointed out what you just admitted and you act as though I'm the one arguing with you? It sounds to me like we agree.


Good God man. You admit that it in no way compares to anything you did in high school and now claim it gives you some insight to how NFL conditioning "should work"? I'm not sure you hear yourself.


And many on the board expect this from you.

If you all can hold your responses to this until my popcorn is done popping, I'd appreciate it.

Only if it's microwave popcorn.

Like some have said... I'm dying to hear what you did back in high school, that apparently lifelong pro's haven't discovered, that could prevent knee injuries at the pro level. I also did not play football, so I don't have the knowledge you gleaned from your years of high school.


And just in case the sarcasm isn't apparent... I'd actually stick with posting Grossi articles to back up your claims.

It was sarcasm. I am in agreement with you on this issue, believe me. Imagine if we had the staph infections happening like the one that nearly killed Jerry Sherk in the 70s.

oobs...better eat that popcorn before it gets cold because I'm not about to be played by someone who would rather make crap up so he can satisfy his need to argue.

He and others can argue with themselves while the NATIONAL SPORTS MEDIA continues to bring up some of the very same issues...why do the Browns suffer so many injuries..or why do so many of the Cleveland Browns players end up on IR..?

I'm happy you decided to stop posting things like that. It appears you met those needs for today.

So, again, what was your strength and conditioning routine in high school that kept you from getting inured? And at what level did you play? And did you PLAY, or were you on the team.

Thanks in advance for answering.

To date nobody has figured out a cure for "The Cleveland Curse". If they ever do they will be a billionaire.

Oh, the irony.

This is almost as much fun as the call to Dak Prescott's lawyer.

I thought it was Watson's lawyer, but what ever.

I also play football in high school. Was quite good - all state. From a small school, of course.

My pre season regime consisted of running about 2 weeks before practice started. Only enough so I could do the 12 minute run. (a mile and 3/4 in less than 12 minutes).

Oh, and I never got hurt, other than that 1 concussion.

Still wanting to know Mac's regimen that he discovered in high school that the Browns don't know about.

Mac???????????

None of the strength and conditioning matter if you dont stretch and warm up properly.

I didn’t think it was possible but I’m actually dumber than I was before I read this thread. Thanks for nothing Mac.

I think it’s more a stretching thing… we need a Yoga GURU to come in and teach the team how to get and keep themselves ridiculously flexible. Strength and conditioning programs are more concerned with endurance and being the strongest you can be. But these young guys getting harder than they’ve ever been forget that they need to train that new muscle to be flexible enough to take continuous NFL impacts. You add that to a reduction in physical practice and more games than before under the player health focused CBA and players go down more often. It’s obvious, and not just on the Browns, in my opinion. I think a week of intensive stretching exercise before camp, a daily Yoga/gymnastics hybrid style stretching regiment, and a year round program to keep guys accountably flexible would fix most of this league wide.

Additionally, the issue we’re really having is not the number of injuries, as much as who is getting those multi-game and season ending injuries.

Clean house. But keep Katy.

Sitting on the JV pine?

Also, he was claiming it all starts at the top and those at the top must be setting the training program. Mac blames Depo for everything, Depo must be in charge of the training menthods....lol

So which of the folks I mentioned are to blame? and why?

Not me writing but it does look as though some who write about football for their living are questioning the same issues I have touched upon in this thread.

Numbers Show How Severely Injuries Have Affected This Browns Season

By Ernesto Cova
December 14, 2023
link


The Cleveland Browns have been through everything this season.

The fact that the team still has an 8-5 record should be more than enough for Kevin Stefanski to run away with Coach of the Year honors, all things considered.

To put it in context, NFL insider Camryn Justice just revealed the teams with the most players on injured reserve, practice squad IR, non-football injury/illness lists, or physically unable to perform lists, with the Browns trailing only the Houston Texans (18) with 14 players, possible 15.

NFL teams with the most players on injured reserve, practice squad IR, non-football injury/illness lists or physically unable to perform lists:

Camryn Justice
@camijustice

Texans: 18
Browns: 14 (15 possible)
Panthers: 14

Team with the fewest players on those lists:
Bears: 1
3:06 PM · Dec 13, 2023

You are here: Home / Daily News / Numbers Show How Severely Injuries Have Affected This Browns Season
Numbers Show How Severely Injuries Have Affected This Browns Season
By Ernesto Cova December 14, 2023 @ejcovap

Cleveland Browns running back Nick Chubb
(Photo by Joe Sargent/Getty Images)


The Cleveland Browns have been through everything this season.

The fact that the team still has an 8-5 record should be more than enough for Kevin Stefanski to run away with Coach of the Year honors, all things considered.

To put it in context, NFL insider Camryn Justice just revealed the teams with the most players on injured reserve, practice squad IR, non-football injury/illness lists, or physically unable to perform lists, with the Browns trailing only the Houston Texans (18) with 14 players, possible 15.



The Browns have suffered injuries all over the field, with Dawand Jones being the latest addition to the report.

From running back Nick Chubb to quarterback Deshaun Watson, that has been the story of the year in Berea, and perhaps it’s time to take a deeper look at the strength and conditioning coach job.

To make things worse, the Browns pretty much cannot afford any more setbacks from here onward.

Also, the team’s next rival, the Chicago Bears, currently has the fewest players in that condition (1) in the entire league, so they should be almost at full strength for that crucial matchup.

The Browns will square off against the Bears, Houston Texans, New York Jets, and Cincinnati Bengals en route to the playoffs, and the AFC postseason race is going to be one for the ages.

This team has been one of the most resilient squads we’ve seen in recent NFL history, and regardless of the outcome of the season, you just have to be very proud of them.

As I have pointed out, many have written about the Injury trend in Cleveland in past years, attempting to get Browns fans to take notice. The injury issues did not suddenly just appear but the Browns management, just like some of our fans have ignored the issue.

The high incidents of injuries in Cleveland is costing the Browns owners and the franchise as a whole, costing millions and millions of dollars in lost production on the field.

You are the person that's making crap up.

You sound like that one Steelers troll that only shows up in the Shack when they are playing well. You're cherry-picking articles that don't even say what you think they say.

I'll reiterate what I've said before (but you'll ignore it and just post another Grossi article). I would also like to see how the Browns soft-tissue injuries stack up to the rest of the league. I feel like there might be something there.

This year, we've had a ton of injuries, and the worst have been freak things. I'm not going to break it down because it's already been done numerous times. You'll ignore it because it doesn't allow you to grind that axe.

We aren't even the worst this year. There are other teams that have more people on IR... both current and total. With many of those injuries being on freak hits, you're clearly driving a narrative that has been proven wrong over and over.
https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/injured-reserve/

What was this magic regimen that kept you healthy in your non-pro ball playing days (seriously, talking about your high school days in a convo about pro injuries is such a clown move).

First of all, this guy pumps out about 20 click bait articles a day covering the NFL, the NBA, MLB and international soccer for various rinky dink sites. He's not a dedicated NFL reporter. Secondly, he's not questioning ANYTHING in that article. He's just quoting Camryn Justice's injury numbers....meaning he did no research and offered no information supporting your stance.

Added: Per his LinkedIn page, he's based in Buenos Aires, lol.

So you think "perhaps it’s time to take a deeper look at the strength and conditioning coach job" coming from a sports psychologist means something? And that's the entire problem with all of this. You've shown zero causation between these two things.

Ernesto Cova is a sports psychologist and diehard sports fan

https://nbablast.com/author/ernesto-cova/

Old. Well young kid looks 17 is not a legit writer even. And you didnt even answer my question. Which of the folks i listed are you saying we should blame.

Mac NEVER answers a question.

So if I'm reading those articles correctly...

analytics is telling us if we average "14 (15 possible)" players on the IR/PUP yearly, we will be at least 8-5. It's remarkable how Depo figured that out.

I wonder if he updated his how to run an organization chart from 7 years ago with this groundbreaking information.

Well I was wrong he is older than 17.

You must have missed where I asked you to explain your own conditioning program. Explain it.

You should be banned for posting that !

I won't sleep for weeks !

LMAO Jfanet, just kidding ! Do not want you banned ! it was funny

Could only watch about 5 seconds before I thought

Richard Simmons was going to come out wearing a Myles Garret Jersey !

lol !

We actually did that for summer conditioning before two a days started. It was a helluva workout and the lady running it was ok to look at for 14-18yo’s.

jc..to add an article that points out how the Browns are surviving the injury issue and still putting a team on the field that can "compete".


3 reasons the Browns have been able to navigate a rash of injuries

Story by Dan Labbe, cleveland.com 
link

BEREA, Ohio — The Browns will be in familiar territory this week, attempting to plug holes left by injuries to starters or key players across their roster. The defense got hit the hardest in this recent wave of injuries. Safety Grant Delpit is on IR. Defensive tackle Mo Hurst II is out for the season. Ogbo Okoronkwo, the third edge rusher who has played nearly as many snaps as starter Za’Darius Smith, could be lost for the season.

The common NFL mantra of “next man up” is being put to the test in a big way by this Browns team.

So far, they’ve managed to get to 8-5. Sure, part of why they’ve been successful is adding Joe Flacco via free agency, but they’ve also had to rely on players down their depth chart to step up and fill important roles.

Here are three reasons the Browns have made “next man up” work so far.

The assistant coaches
Special teams coordinator Bubba Ventrone said head coach Kevin Stefanski makes it clear to his assistants that they need to make sure players are ready if they’re called upon.

“When those injuries happen, guys go to IR, but you’re using the practice squad as like an extension of the roster,” Ventrone said. “So (Stefanski)’s communicating with the coaches like that, we need to develop those players that are on the practice squad because they’re really an extension of the roster. Those are the next guys that we’re looking to play and elevate. So his communication to the coaching staff at the beginning of the season, and obviously the players understand that you got to be ready to go, you got to prepare every week like you’re playing in the game. I think our coaching staff has done a really good job of rallying and preparing those players that are having more opportunities now due to injury.”

Offensive coordinator Alex Van Pelt echoed those sentiments.

“There’s a ton of work that goes on behind the scenes, not on the practice field,” he said. “Our young coaches do a great job of getting the extra work with those guys, whether it’s (assistant offensive line coach) Scott Peters or (offensive assistant) John Decoster working with the younger players off to the side, (assistant wide receivers coach) Callie (Brownson) working with (wide receiver) Ced (Tillman) and some of the younger receivers getting them ready. There’s a lot of work that goes in on the side to get those guys ready, but it is important.”

Even in the small glimpses of practice the media is able to view during the regular season, you see players all over the roster getting reps and getting coached. Brownson, for example, spent part of the open portion of practice on Wednesday working with the backup quarterbacks throwing to the practice squad receivers.

D’Anthony Bell, a safety who signed here in 2022 as an undrafted free agent and could get an opportunity this week with Delpit gone and Juan Thornhill dealing with a calf, credits the coaching staff’s approach.

“It mainly starts with the head guy, Coach Stefanski, and then on down from him, (Defensive coordinator Jim) Schwartz, they just talk about being prepared and being ready when your time comes and when they call you,” Bell said. “So they’re not going to bring the standards down for nobody. So just living up to that standard of what we hold ourselves by as a team and as a coach, hold us by. So just staying on that course.”

Offensive line coach Bill Callahan is a master at getting his whole room of linemen ready.

“I think the way Coach Callahan coaches is so detailed in his process from day one until now that when you plug in a new piece, they kind of have to be caught up to speed to really understand what’s going on,” left guard Joel Bitonio said. “And so his focus every week we have to put someone in like he puts in the extra time, he puts in the extra work. The guys are focused on getting extra work when they need to. And you have however many runs, you could really focus on those runs and the detail behind which formations we’re going to get, which defensive fronts we’re going to get. And it breaks it down for him. I think it just starts with how detailed he is and how focused he is on the little things and that allows guys to go out there and kind of play free.”

The position coaches become very important when players get thrust into a new role because of injury.

“A testament to the coaches, position coaches doing a great job,” linebacker Anthony Walker Jr. said. “The DB coaches, linebacker coaches, D-line coaches, whenever we have somebody step up, there’s no drop off.”

Player development
One of the benefits of stability is the Browns have had some young players in their building for a while. When you have the same GM and coach for four years, there’s not a rush to get players out and Andrew Berry and Stefanski have remained committed to developing young players.

“You look at Nick Harris who took tons of reps for (former Browns center) JC (Tretter) in practice,” Bitonio said, “so he had all that prep time and then was going to be the starter, obviously got hurt.”

Bitonio is referencing years when Tretter wasn’t practicing, so Harris was getting first-team reps. Harris was slated to take over at center before an injury on the first series of preseason in 2022 ended his season.

Still, Harris’ experience in practice is vital and the Browns have kept Harris engaged by giving him opportunities in their jumbo packages.

Michael Dunn has been a regular as an extra guard while James Hudson III has been their swing tackle since he came into the league.

Bell is an example of a player who has thrived on special teams and bided his time for an opportunity.

The Browns are hoping Alex Wright has developed in his second season to the point where he can fill in for Ogbo Okoronkwo and rookie Isaiah McGuire can do the same.

There has been stability up and down the roster and it’s giving the Browns a chance to allow young players to grow into opportunities when they present themselves.

Players staying ready
In the end, it’s about the players.

“We’ve had guys in here in this locker room that have been with us the whole time as well that have been waiting for their opportunity,” Walker said, “and it just happens like that sometimes. You never know when your number’s going to be called, so all you’ve got to do is stay ready and when your number is called, you go out there and you’re prepared.”

And, to hear Walker say it, it seems like this year has been a little different.

“I think we’ve prepared ourselves, I believe, a lot better than we have probably in the past of guys going down and not executing at the same tempo and everything like that,” Walker said. “I think we’ve gotten a lot better at that, guys being ready to go when their number’s called.”

Linebacker Jeremiah Owusu-Koramoah thinks it has to do with the Browns family-like culture.

“When you have a family that has a family creed and a family mission, gives those players and people that’s inside of that family a bit more pride to go towards something we have established here looking to build continuously,” he said. “I think they want to be a part of it and it’s a bit more help.”

Players buying in and being coached to be ready — and a team staying committed to those players — has allowed the Browns to navigate a rash of injuries this season. They may reach their breaking point soon, but to have even made it this far shows they’re doing something right in making sure “next man up” isn’t just a cliche.

©2023 Advance Local Media LLC. Visit cleveland.com. Distributed by Tribune Content Agency, LLC.

but wait, there's MORE!

OMG !!!


LMAO !!


Ban yourself !!!

While this article link does point out some good points, Browns fans need to ask the question "are these replacement players as good or better than the players who ended up on IR or those who out for shorter periods of time, due to injury..?

Each of the 4 remaining games will test the Browns 'next man up' philosophy. Can the Browns coaching staff continue to prepare those players being called upon to fill in for the Browns starters..?

Can GM Berry and his staff continue to find talented players to help fill the Browns needs that are being created as the Browns injuries continue to mount.

Can Stefanski continue to adjust his game plan on a weekly basis based on the talent available..? Finding Flacco might have been a blessing for Stefanski who seemed to do his best as a OC while coaching Vikings QB Kirk Cousins. Flacco's style of play is similar to the play of Cousins when he arrived in Minnesota in 2018, when Stefanski was named the Viking OC.

I'm hoping that the entire franchise realizes what is on the line for the players, coaches, front office, ownership and the fans. The work will continue and the work load could increase if the injuries continue to mount.

NEXT MAN UP must succeed as the team fights to make the playoffs and see just how far the Browns can go.

The issue of the high rate of injuries being suffered by our Browns players must be an area of major concern once the Browns season has ended. It's too late to do anything about that issue this year. We need everyone focusing on what they can do to support the team the rest of this season.

And without any evidence connecting the two, the band played on.

Don't laugh! This is the new SB halftime (part-time?) entertainment. Looking for audience participation. . . .

Not a damn thing wrong with bringing the Browns injury problem up now or at anytime. The trend has gone on for years and should have been addressed long before now.

But, as I pointed out, nothing can be done to reverse the injury issues that have been ignored as just the cost of doing business in the NFL. If the Browns fail to achieve their goals and the number injuries suffered throughout the year appear to be a major factor...that would be a good time to discuss what the Browns franchise needs to do better in the off-season to improve for next season.

Sure sure. Invent dots so you can connect them where dots don't exist.

No they don't.
All the Fans need to do is watch and hope the Browns win. Ask how they will win with the players they have.

The Browns Can Win with the Healthy players that they have suiting up to play, who are some of the best players at their position, In the National Freaking Football League.

SMOTHER the Bears, You Need Every game, you are playing against the Bengals, steelers and Bills, in this game against the Bears

and the Browns, in Jeron Christian and James Hudson have 2 of the best OT's in the entire NFL, so POUND THE Bears,
Run it right at them,
Run right over them
and run it right through them.
screw the Bears.
You only play one game tomorrow, so Get after it.

Camel toe.

Yep, 50+ years old too… smh.

50 is the new 30.

Many 30 year olds haven't even moved out of their parents' houses yet.

Maybe the dimmer ones do. My thinking is it is obvious that the replacements aren't as good or better than those they have replaced. In a couple of cases a few might be nearly as good. If they were better, why would they be replacing anybody?

I understand the concerns about the injuries this season, or any season for that matter. I just don't think one can conclude that the source cause of the injuries stems from an insufficient training program. I don't see any way how the training staff could have altered anything in the program that could have prevented Chubb from blowing out his knee, Watson from breaking a bone in his shoulder, or could have strengthened the brains for any of the multiple players who have had concussions.

In years past I have railed about the over training of players. When players were tearing pecs and biceps because their muscles were as taut as piano strings, training could be a source cause. Little emphasis seemed to be directed at flexibility. I don't see any way the training staff could have trained Chubb to where his knee could bend horizontally without damage.

Whenever a team gets a rash of injuries, there is always the trainers. Maybe that's fair,.,, But since the injury bug is hitting a lot of QB's around the league, maybe it's not training.. all the training staffs around the league can't be bad at their jobs. Not all at once....

I heard or read somewhere that each new generation of men has less testosterone than the previous. Maybe that has something to do with at least the soft tissue aspect of the injuries. The players who are in the league now are bigger, faster and stronger than the ones that played in the 50’s, 60’s and 70’s but I think they were tougher back then. Just an observation for what it’s worth.

7am Sunday morning and we already have our post of the week.

Is it less testosterone or is it they are filled with more microplastics, anti-biotics, artificial preservatives/additives, anti-depressants/medications, and petroleum byproducts?

Good point Bull. Lord knows what the players are taking behind the scenes.

Theres something to that, these guys now are built in a gym. they are built for size and speed, guys back in the old days we big strong guys that got that way through genetics or their hard labor off season jobs, functional strength was being built that way and it holds up..its why in combat sports gym muscles are looked at as being less favorable than strength developed by functional training and calisthenics. The soft tissues of tendons and the areas around the points of movement or exertion will give way, plyo type exercises help strengthen tendons but once you have an injury they almost never go back to same elasticity, which increases chance for re-injury. Its common in NFL sure, but at the rate we are experiencing non contact type injuries (like chubbs wasn't going to matter what was done prevenative) one has to think there has to be something we can do better in terms of building functional strength and flexibility

I think a lack of fat plays a role.

What a croc. 50 didn’t feel like my 30s to me, that’s for damn sure.

I'm healthier and in better shape in my 50's than in 30's.

So maybe its just you.

anyone ever look at pictures of people who were in their 30s/40s from history? it's crazy how they legit look like they're in their 50s/60s

If the Browns could figure out Nick Chubb's secrete to getting the most out of the Browns H&C program..?


Browns RB Nick Chubb Creates Buzz After Viral Video

Cleveland Browns running back Nick Chubb appears well on his way to making a full recovery from a devastating knee injury he suffered in September.

In a video posted by Cleveland.com, Chubb was spotted walking without crutches or a brace on his injured left knee before Sunday’s game against the Chicago Bears as he entered the stadium.

Chubb had surgery to repair his ACL in mid-November. He previously had surgery on his MCL in September. Chubb was injured against the Pittsburgh Steelers on September 18. The play that he suffered the injury on was so gruesome that the broadcast did not show a replay. Despite worries that his career might be at risk, Chubb is once again demonstrating his ability to surpass all predictions.

Chubb has not spoken publicly since the injury but he’s been around the Browns’ facility and at home games. He’s also been spending some time with his teammates and seems to be in good spirits.

“Nick doing real good,” Hunt said on November 2. “He’s keeping his spirits high. He’s working hard in the training room and I know he’s looking forward to getting back.”

Since arriving in 2018 as a second-round pick Chubb has been the heartbeat of the Browns, both on the field and in the locker room as a stoic leader. He rushed for 1,525 yards and 12 touchdowns during the 2022 season. It was his fourth consecutive season rushing for over 1,000 yards and his career 5.2 per carry average is among the league’s elite.

Nick Chubb Channeling Batman in Recovery

The picture depicted the shattered mask of Batman, a consequence of his battle with the antagonist Bane in “The Dark Knight Rises.” In the encounter, Batman is overpowered and severely wounded, leading Bane to remark, “victory has defeated you.” Despite this, Batman manages to overcome his setbacks and ultimately triumphs.

Chubb had previously discussed how the film, especially that specific scene, served as an inspiration during his recovery from a similar knee injury he sustained while playing at Georgia.


“I remember I was like on top of the world, coming off a good [freshman] season, feeling myself, doing good in everything, and he said that, and I feel like he was talking to me,” Chubb told The Akron Beacon Journal in 2020. “I kind of used that as motivation to keep me up and keep me going because of how he came back from that. That’s how I attacked my rehab and my recovery from my injury.”

Chubb is expected to be ready to play at some point next season, although an exact timeline is still unknown.

Despite picking up a 20-17 win, the Browns’ running game had it’s roughest showing of the season against the Bears. Cleveland had just 29 rushing yards as a team. To pick up the slack, quarterback Joe Flacco came through with 374 passing yards and a pair of scores.

The ground game has been inconsistent for the Browns this season without Chubb but Jerome Ford and Kareem Hunt have had their share of big plays. The Browns are averaging 123.7 yards on the ground this season.

Ford leads the Browns with 718 rushing yards. He’s averaging 4.1 yards per carry. Hunt has been primarily the short-yardage back for Cleveland. Hunt — who was signed shortly after Chubb’s injury — has collected 369 rushing yards and a team-high seven touchdowns.

J.R. DeGroote covers the Cleveland Browns and Los Angeles Lakers for Heavy.com. He covered local and statewide sports as a reporter for West Hawaii Today and has decades of experience in digital media with previous stops at SB Nation and Bleacher Report. He has won multiple state, regional and national honors for sports reporting and photography. More about J.R. DeGroote

Glad to hear he is in good spirits and on the way to a sound recovery.

The man is a beast, and he has remained in good spirits. Nobody will outwork him in his quest to return by the start of next season.

I know. I never doubted his determination. Now it is just a matter of how close to 100% he can get. His new 100% might not be equal to his old 100%. Time will tell.

We will find out, but if it's possible Chubb is determined to do it. The man is just amazing.

the big trick with an ACL is in getting the body to re-learn how to fire the quadriceps muscles. Once the surgical site is healed and enough time has gone that you can start working the reattachment, then as long as you can get those muscles to fire, you can walk.

Good to know. Lets hope he gets things firing enough to allow him to run.

The thing I'm most interested with in regards to our Injured Reserve corps of players is figuring out who on that list might be able to return for the playoffs.

Yes, they could have. If they had mac's high school training regimen that strengthens knees to withstand any collision, then we'd never have had a single person on the injury report all season.

Why do they not have this info? Mac hasn't given it out. He's been asked repeatedly on here, and hasn't disclosed. You'd think that if mac wanted his Browns to win, then he'd have shared, right?

It's clear. Mac is a Steelers fan.

70+ now. I saw that prancing lady workout back in the late 90’s

Was the amount of Browns injuries this year an out layer or really a problem unique to the Browns? I don't know that answer, but the NFL injury report shows a trend that is marking the Browns number of injuries as disturbing considering the difference between the league as a whole and the Browns.

Injuries as a whole were down this season, as NFL players collectively missed 700 fewer games due to injuries than last season. That was driven, league health and safety officials said, largely by reductions in lower-extremity strains (such as injuries to hamstring, calf and groin muscles) and knee injuries. The 52 torn ACLs suffered during preseason and regular season games and practices represented a roughly 24 percent reduction from the average of the previous two seasons.
https://sports.yahoo.com/nfl-consid...5.html?.tsrc=daily_mail&uh_test=0_00

We had a lot more hamstring, calf and groin injuries than the rest of the league?

Not the point, there were 700 less games missed compared to the overall games missed by injuries in the NFL in 2023 compared last season. The Browns had significantly more games missed by injury in 2023 compared to 2022. The question is why the spike for the Browns when the league as a whole showed a significant reduction? I don't claim to know the reason but it's an obvious trend that is not conducive to winning going forward if it doesn't change.

I think you need to stop it right now!

You are starting to travel down the road of stealing Mac's conspiracy theory.

Uhhh... you just tried to make it the point.

Ah, you left out and knee injuries. Those would include Wright - knee, Walker - hamstring & knee, Thornhill - calf, Takitaki - hamstring, Newsome - elbow, hamstring, groin, knee, Mitchell - hamstring, Keyes - hamstring, Jones - shoulder and knee, Hunt - thigh, Hudson - ankle, Hurst - pectoral, Ika - foot, Kunaszyk - knee & calf, McLeod - bicep, Moore - concussion, Okoronkwo - pectoral, Phillips - pectoral, Pocic - chest and stinger, DTR - concussion and hip, Tillman - hip and concussion, Ward - shoulder, Watson - shoulder, and Wills - foot and knee

I'm not sure if knees are a Strength and Conditioning issue or an awareness issue (or just a bad luck issue.) When 200-400 pounds whip or roll into the side or back of a planted knee, something is gonna give. With luck, it is the ground that gives, but a lot of the time it is a ligament. Maybe we need more peripheral vision, keep your head on a swivel, or protect yourself (/each other) training.

I agree. It’s football. Guys get hurt. Yoga might help and I’m not really joking.

No one should take it as a joke.
I'm certain that it helps- and I'll bet there are some players in the NFL who are already taking advantage of yoga's benefits.


Reminds me of back in the day, when it was revealed that Steeler's WR Lynn Swann studied ballet as part of his training regimen. It was big news back then, and came with a certain degree of controversy/derision. Made total sense to me when I first heard it- ballet dancers are the most physically fit, precision-based athletes you'll ever see. Lynn Swann was the prototype for today's WRs. When you see them do an insane double toe-tap at the sidelines, you can than Lunn Swann for re-establishing the bar. That guy made the WR position look beautiful.

Yoga seems like the perfect fit for what these guys do.
All that kinetic exertion needs a balance/release.


.02

But does anybody really want to see Joel Bitonio in a tutu

I have been talking about yoga for 20 years on this board. No doubt that raw strength is important. Strength with range of motion is the key.

The only injuries that conditioning MIGHT prevent is pulled or torn muscles. Having more flexibility might prevent some of those. Injuries non muscle related are just luck of the draw. Conditioning isn't going to reduce concussions, that is a technique issue. Things like ribs, blown out knees, broken bones, bruised kidneys, etc. are just the hazards of the game.

Let's get over this idea that we are somehow doing something wrong. Geesh.

Better question:
Who doesn't?

I agree...Ill add this:

I recently met a new client who was on the team until final cuts this last year. I asked him about the Strength & Conditioning aspect in Cleveland. He said that the trainers/people are fine or quite good...but the equipment in Berea is absolutely not fine...nor good. FWIW. BTW...I don't ask him for the 'scoop' or 'dirt' on players and coaches...he would answer me, but that's not the relationship I want with him.

He does share interesting stories about the NFL life and playing against certain players. Let there be no doubt that the NFL is a J-O-B.

https://www.clevelandbrowns.com/video/training-facility-renovation-update-17041178

The Browns have spent a lot of money since 2017 fixing up their training facility.

Maybe they should buy their equipment the same place mac did in high school.

Voila…problem solved.

The thing with equipment is it is expensive and seems outdated in 2-3 years. For a team to equip a room for maybe 30 lifting at a time, some spot, you aren't going to change it up but maybe every 8-10 years.


Like it or not, as in any business or home, there is a limit to how much and when they allocate the money.

There is a term called "farm strong". One can get a pretty darn good, well rounded workout chopping wood for 30 minutes. LOL...5-10 minutes for most of us will have us sweating like horses after a race in summer.

Joel is much too large for a tutu. He would need a fourfour.

The beauty of my off-season HS workout, it didn't take much of an investment to participate...maybe $20 for a weighted vest and ankle weights.

If only the Browns could buy a well conditioned roster that had fewer injuries.

Money can't buy Haslam everything even if he buys the latest/greatest exercise machinery.

Some seem to believe that the Browns can buy their way to a healthier roster, but based on the record produced by the Browns strength and conditioning department, they proved to themselves that buying all that expensive exercise equipment was MEANINGLESS in the hands of those in charge of the Browns health and conditioning department. The Browns were one of most injured teams in the NFL over the 23/24 season.

The health of the Browns roster is an area of the franchise that needs to be improved upon.

Yep, definitely time for Haslam to turn the injuries off. Sadly, real life doesn't have Madden options.

One can do everything right preparation-wise and still get hurt. Unfortunately, the human body wasn't designed to withstand torpedoes flying at its joints and extremities at high speed with extreme force from any and every direction.

Yet, somehow the staff received an A+ from the players survey from March of last year. I would expect if anyone is going to be critical about the staff in a survey, it would be the players. Their success and getting that next big contract are not only tied to their coaches, but also their S&C team.

Survey

Towards the end of the season I made a comment after one of the games about wanting to say something, but didn’t want to jinx it.

You know it was a weird year for injuries, when our only healthy OL the whole season was Teller. The previous few years he was always out a couple games.

Well Mac which one of these folks are not getting their job done?

Shaun Huls
Larry Jackson
Josh Christovich
Dale Jones
Ty Taylor
Monty Gibson

or Maybe it's Katy Meassicks fault for not providing them with the right nutrition.

Player report cards of NFL facilities reveal jaw-dropping details about some teams — including Commanders

Charles Robinson · Jori Epstein
Wed, Mar 1, 2023
Player report cards of NFL facilities reveal jaw-dropping details about some teams — including Commanders - Yahoo Sports
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INDIANAPOLIS – The goal, NFLPA president J.C. Tretter says, was to point out deficiencies rather than evoke shame.

But in arguably the most comprehensive look at how NFL players view the quality of their own teams, the NFL Players Association released a set of eyebrow-raising “team report cards” Wednesday, laying bare some of the best and worst aspects of the league’s franchises.

The players' union celebrated the New York Giants and Minnesota Vikings clubs, as staff and facility overhaul generated significant improvement for players in the first year of each team’s new coaching regime.

The club report cards also highlight clear concerns at facilities across the NFL, from three teams failing to provide dinner for players in season to two teams failing to offer vitamins for athletes whose jobs depend heavily on health and fitness metrics.

The Cincinnati Bengals, in both categories, are the lone team across the league not to provide players with supplements.

Add the Bengals' “showers and toilets consistently not working,” a closure of the Bengals' cafeteria on days players are encouraged to voluntarily report to the facility and players’ wives nursing on the floors of public restrooms at games due to a lack of team-provided family rooms, and it’s perhaps unsurprising that fewer than half of players believe team owner Mike Brown is willing to spend to improve facilities.

The Bengals nonetheless ranked above five teams in composite league rankings. The Vikings, Miami Dolphins and Las Vegas Raiders, in order, topped the report card results, while the Los Angeles Chargers, Arizona Cardinals and Washington Commanders, in order, steadied the descent to the bottom.

The results stem from a poll sampling more than 1,300 responders — nearly 60% of the league’s active players — in an effort to offer wide-ranging opinion data ahead of free agency.

Tretter, who played for the Cleveland Browns through the 2021 season, said the goal of the report cards was to help players and agents understand more about the franchises they were weighing in free agency. Simultaneously, a new means of public accountability puts franchises on notice to improve inequities. Tretter believes the first annual results are telling, but how teams use this information to better support their players, which the union expects next year’s survey to emphasize, will arguably be even more telling.

The report cards scored teams on eight categories: treatment of families, nutrition, weight room, strength staff, training room, training staff, locker room and travel. Each area was graded by players on a scale of A+ (considered exemplary) to F- (essentially zero effort by the team), with thumbnail descriptions that detail why the grades landed where they did. Each team was graded based on all the categories, funneling into an aggregate report card for all of the teams.

Composite grades did not clearly correlate with on-field success, as the defending Super Bowl champion Kansas City Chiefs ranked a surprising 29th — fourth-worst in the league — and were hurt by older facilities and discontent with head trainer Rick Burkholder, whom they believe “does not treat players fairly and consistently.” No training staff ranked worse in the league than Kansas City, whose players reported they “feel discouraged from reporting their injuries” and “fear retribution for speaking up for better care.”

The Super Bowl runner-up Philadelphia Eagles landed 14th overall. Their coaching staff was lauded, while their family care (a family room at the stadium is accessible to coaches and football operations staff members’ families but not those of players) ranked poorly.

The New Orleans Saints and Arizona Cardinals joined the Bengals in drawing recognition for failing to provide players dinner; the Cardinals are allegedly willing to box dinner in season, though they’re the only team to “charge you via payroll deduction” for that service. Arizona also charges players for offseason meals.

Health and safety concerns
Cardinals players similarly reported concerns about the safety of their weight room, with uneven floors and “peeling” floorboards.

Carolina Panthers players requested an upgrade to their “unsafe” pool room, amid “complaints of a slippery surface with players falling regularly.” Of Carolina respondents, 92% believed team owner David Tepper was willing to invest to fix that.

The Jacksonville Jaguars drew one of the most grisly concerns, stemming from a rat infestation.

“When asked what the number one thing they want changed at their facility, the answer was unanimous — get rid of the rats!” Jacksonville’s report card reads. “Players reported that for 3-4 weeks this season, there was a rat infestation in the locker room and laundry hampers.”

Chargers players described “gross” and often broken hot and cold tubs, with only 50% feeling confident that team owner Dean Spanos would invest to change that.

Training concerns, including one team that needs it
Commanders players, in line with public reports in recent years, directly said they do not want to rehabilitate from injuries at their facility.

Green Bay Packers players often outsource physical therapy to supplement an understaffed team department.

And in Arizona, only 48% of players believe the team has enough physical therapists — the second-worst confidence level from any team. With franchise quarterback Kyler Murray set to return midseason, could that hinder his progress toward a speedy return?

While six teams don’t have a sauna and four don’t have a steam room, two — the Houston Texans and Los Angeles Chargers — don’t have either.

Some teams, including the Baltimore Ravens and Chargers, have replaced their training staff since the survey period, which the league believes reflects responsive management.

Responsiveness, on personnel and facilities, is the union’s goal.

The survey authors made that clear in broad assertions — seven of the eight coaches viewed as most respecting players’ time made the playoffs — and specific ones.

“Every respondent believes that [Giants head coach Brian] Daboll is respectful of the players’ time,” the Giants’ report card reads, “and they also feel he is willing to listen and collaborate with them. In many players’ opinions, his tenure is a stark change from former head coach Joe Judge’s tenure and an example of how quickly things can improve if the club prioritizes the well-being of players."

The overall aggregate rankings of franchises from best to worst were as follows:

1. Minnesota Vikings
2. Miami Dolphins
3. Las Vegas Raiders
4. Houston Texans
5. Dallas Cowboys
6. Green Bay Packers
7. San Francisco 49ers
8. New York Giants
9. Buffalo Bills
10. New Orleans Saints
11. Seattle Seahawks
12. Carolina Panthers
13. Chicago Bears
14. Philadelphia Eagles
15. Detroit Lions
16. Indianapolis Colts
17. Baltimore Ravens
18. Tennessee Titans
19. New York Jets
20. Denver Broncos
21. Cleveland Browns
22. Pittsburgh Steelers
23. Atlanta Falcons
24. New England Patriots
25. Los Angeles Rams
26. Tampa Bay Buccaneers
27. Cincinnati Bengals
28. Jacksonville Jaguars
29. Kansas City Chiefs
30. Los Angeles Chargers
31. Arizona Cardinals
32. Washington Commanders

It's hilarious to see posters here continuously attempt to manufacture some macro issue about the organization especially when their first assertion years ago (usually related to the FO) was shown to be wrong and misguided...if not flat-out fraudulent. And now after that initial prophetic vision was shown to be as ridiculous as an episode of Ancient Aliens, every other subsequent topic they choose to create an issue over has also been either also shown to be wrong or are willing to wait years for their outrage to come to fruition. It'll be 2028 and some will say...."See! I told you Berry wouldn't work out as GM" or it'll be 2033...."I was the one who told you about the cap problems!"


They are now on Plan H and pivoting to manufacturing new outrage they hope will stick and others will jump on to. This is why we cannot have nice things.

scott...the results of the 8 categories surveyed in 2022 show that the Browns ranked 21st out of the 32 teams...just a guess, but it looks like you "cherry-picked" an area that earned the best survey score and ignored the results of the entire survey of the 8 categories named... The report cards scored teams on eight categories: treatment of families, nutrition, weight room, strength staff, training room, training staff, locker room and travel.

He made reference to the strength staff grade which is what this entire thread is about and YOUR main premise. The training staff also got an A.

Strength coaches were tied for 1st. Training staff tied for 9th.

Can you start a new thread about the Treatment of Families grade? I think it's high time we address this mediocrity with only a family room and daycare provided.

Here is more information regarding the Browns "grades" and the comments for each area within.

https://nflpa.com/cleveland-browns-report-card

Some of the same people that have said time and time again that the AFC North is the toughest, most physical division in football now wish to use an agenda to blame the strength and conditioning staff as whipping boys. And as you have shown, based on nothing but their own conjecture while dismissing the facts.

Your a little late Mac.

Cleveland has been planning on expanding the facility in Berea for over 5 years. Including a new weight room, and expanded indoor practice field.

ttps://www.cleveland.com/community/2023/09/berea-approves-next-phase-of-home-demolitions-for-browns-facility-expansion.html

He "cherry picked" THE area that is the basis of your complaint. Sorry, but he took you to the woodshed on that. Adding a survey that includes other unrelated areas where the score was lower to offset the damages isn't a good look.

Thanks! I was looking for that yesterday.

Some seem to be losing focus on the subject...

...the Browns had a major issue with the number of injuries suffered during the 23/24 season, with many of our best players and starters ending their season on IR and the team being handicapped, unable to field a team of our best and healthiest players and being forced to play with "back-up" quality players.

If the Browns address the issue of injuries, it will help the franchise overcome the issue of "player availability" and will help to improve the performance of the entire team. Improving the health and conditioning of the team should be a major goal of those who are employed by the Browns franchise to ensure that our players are among the best conditioned and strongest in the NFL.

The number of starters lost due to injury is solid proof of A FAILED STRENGTH AND CONDITIONING PROGRAM.

The present members of the Browns Strength and Conditioning Program are a FAILURE, based on the results they produced during the 23/24 season, with approx 19 of the Browns players unable to play due to injuries.

Cut that number in half with only 9 or 10 of the Browns best players on offense, defense and special teams unable to play due to injuries and how much better could the Browns have been..?

It's not simply BAD LUCK folks...there are REASON'S that some players are more injury prone and it is up to those responsible for Strength and Conditioning to improve upon their own performance if they have a goal of improving their own department and area of responsibility.

If anyone in area of Strength and Conditioning believes they have done all they can to improve the S & C department, the franchise should be looking for a replacement. Staying the same as the 23/24 performance isn't good enough.

You seem to have lost focus that the players themselves are saying you're wrong.

pit...you don't even know how many of our players voted in this survey or how the vote broke down among the 8 categories they voted on..lol

BTW, you do understand that this survey HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH THE 2023/24 season injury results, don't you..?

I don't think the point you've been trying to make has anything to do with the 2023/24 season injuries either. The categories you are trying to dismiss are EXACTLY in reference to the point you've been trying to make.

Thank you.

Pit..with the first 3 words above...YOU NAILED IT..!

You admit THAT..."YOU DON'T THINK"...

My entire point that seemed to skim right over your buzz-cut scalp is that from the beginning I have focused on the Browns injury history of the 2023/2024 season and the negative impact those injuries had on the Browns hopes of a playoff run and a super bowl opportunity.

Teams that are able to limit injuries seem to win more Super Bowls when we examine the records over the last 5 yrs...
THINK ABOUT THAT, pit.

You've blamed it on the strength and conditioning staff all along and everybody knows that. I don't have a buzz cut but I would prefer that over what appears to be the frontal lobotomy you have had to endure.

Well Mac you have now blamed all the injuries on our strength and conditioning. I will give you a chance to expand on it. Like I asked and you ignored the first time. Who of the people I listed above is to blame and why?

You are the last person that should be calling anyone out for cherry-picking. You're trying (and failing) to crusade against the S&C staff and he posted the grade for the S&C staff. You can't even keep up with your own BS.

Speaking of which, we're still waiting on your high school strength regimen that would've withstood a SS to a locked knee. Still waiting....

Rumor has it, the reason the Food Service/Nutrition received a D+ was the players were upset. It is expected their plastic Transformers lunch box to include a Lunchable, a Capri-Sun, and a desert of Fruit by the Foot with an option of an orange Push-Pop.

Browns news: Myles Garrett says healthy roster would have ended in Super Bowl appearance

Myles Garrett believes the Cleveland Browns would have been in the Super Bowl had they stayed healthy

By Randy Gurzi | 7:00 AM CST

link


The Cleveland Browns were watching the Super Bowl with the rest of us on Sunday but Myles Garrett believes they should have been playing in it. Speaking before the big game, Garrett said he was confident that his team could have made it if they were healthy.

Cleveland lost several players but the top two injuries happened to Nick Chubb and Deshaun Watson. The Browns won 11 games even with them going down, making this claim from Garrett sound very logical. That story and more can be found in today's news round-up.

Myles Garrett Sends Bold Message on Browns’ Supremacy on Eve of Super Bowl - Max Dible, Heavy

“I think if we stay healthy, there’s no reason we’re not playing this Sunday. And, you know, it hurts every time I think about [Deshaun Watson] getting hurt, [Nick] Chubb getting hurt and other big injuries that we had,” Garrett said. “But I’m proud of the men I had in the room. I’m proud of the brotherhood that we created from training camp all throughout the season and everything we had to fight through, the adversity that we saw. It was awesome to see how those guys rallied.”

Injuries were the theme for the Browns all year and they still won 11 games. They also secured wins over the No. 1 seed in each conference this season. That makes it easy to believe the claim from Garrett that they could have run the table with their full roster.

The injury issues facing the Browns will continue to be an issue, simply because full recovery for those on IR is not determined by a calendar...
link


Monday, February 12, 2024

PLAYER POSITION UPDATED INJURY INJURY STATUS

Dawand Jones OT Mon, Feb 12 Knee - MCL Questionable for the start of training camp

Grant Delpit SS Mon, Feb 12 Groin Questionable for the start of training camp

Drew Forbes OT Mon, Feb 12 Back Questionable for the start of training camp

Michael Woods II WR Mon, Feb 12 Achilles Questionable for the start of training camp

Thompson-Robinson QB Mon, Feb 12 Hip Questionable for the start of training camp

Jedrick Wills OT Mon, Feb 12 Knee - MCL Questionable for the start of training camp

Jacob Phillips LB Mon, Feb 12 Pectoral Questionable for the start of training camp

Deshaun Watson QB Mon, Feb 12 Shoulder Questionable for the start of training camp

Nick Chubb RB Mon, Feb 12 Knee - ACL + MCL Questionable for the start of training camp

Anthony Walker MLB Mon, Feb 12 Knee Questionable for the start of training camp

Maurice Hurst DT Mon, Feb 12 Pectoral Questionable for the start of training camp

Jack Conklin OT Mon, Feb 12 Knee - ACL + MCL Questionable for the start of training camp

Rodney McLeod FS Mon, Feb 12 Biceps Questionable for the start of training camp

Jakeem Grant WR Mon, Feb 12 Kneecap Questionable for the start of training camp

At some point you need to take that horse to the barn, brush it, let it rest along with watering and feeding it. You've been riding it for so long now without rest you're about to kill thew damned thing.

Questionable is media-speak for we have no idea/access but want to put something out there because there are people who will keep clicking our articles no matter how little information the articles contain.

It seems that some believe that if they dig that hole a little deeper and hide there head in it, the injury problem that plagued the Browns last season will simply "go away"...

As we can see by the information posted, we have 14 players listed as questionable for the start of training camp. Put another way..the affects of the injury problem that began in 2023 will continue to be an issue when the new training camp begins.

Even team leaders recognize that the injury history of the Browns IS AN ISSUE affecting the teams ability to be achieve team goals, such as playoff wins, division titles and a shot at a Super Bowl...and the best response some have to the injury problem is...THAT THERE IS NOTHING THE BROWNS FRANCHISE CAN DO.

Why is it that some teams are able minimize the impact of injuries upon their franchises while some franchises like the Browns are overwhelmed with injuries..?

I do know this much...players can be "overworked" during training and practices, leading to injuries...

...I also know that players can be "underworked" during training and practices, leaving those players more susceptible to injuries.

There are 32 NFL teams with 32 different approaches to training and conditioning and there is NO ONE SIZE FITS ALL. It is up to each team to tailor a conditioning/training program that is best for their franchise and those team programs must be further refined and tailored to meet the needs of each individual player.

IMO, some teams do a better job of tailoring their conditioning and training programs than other teams.

Are the Browns OVERWORKED, UNDERWORKED..?

So you know a little that may or may not be related to the Browns injuries? Yeah, me too. Somebody should really call the Humane Society about your abuse of that horse.

Half of those injuries were knees (or tendons around the knee).
So what was your high school regimen that would've prevented these knee injuries?

My guess would be walking to school and back five miles a day uphill both directions in a foot of snow.

While carrying a 50# bookbag. (and going barefoot)

oobs...after missing 3 games games of my sophomore season with a broken bone in my wrist, not being able to play football due to that injury struck a nerve with me. I was determined to find something to improve my conditioning during the summer between my soph and junior seasons.

A few weeks ago I posted a video of Walter Payton's famous Hill climb workout and and noted that Walter, a 5-10/200 lb RB played 13 seasons (averaging 14.6 games per season) for the Bears without a knee injury and he credited his personal workout regime of running a hill near his Chicago home in the offseason to improve his conditioning. I used Walter's example to show how effective that type of workout could be at protecting football players from knee injury.

Doing what Walter Payton did was not a workout I could duplicate living in farm country where there were no hills. So I decided to try the next best thing ... I devised a workout routine that utilized the fire-escape stairs at the HS. There were two sets of stairs, one set of stairs that went to second floor and the other flight of stairs was
evacuated the 3rd floor.

It was exactly what I was looking for in a workout...After a month or so of running those stairs 3 times a week and got the idea of adding a weighted vest and ankle weights to increase the intensity of the workout. I was in the best shape of my life by the time football season rolled around and did not miss a game due to injury, playing Outside LB on defense and filling in at OG on offense.

During the offseason between my Junior and Senior season, I continued my off season workout, increasing the reps with additional weight added to the ankle and vest.

I started at OLB on defense and RT on offense and did not miss a game due to injury.





Anything else, feel free to ask...mac

My recall is you once said you played center.

Another coachb?

I don't think so. I just recall him saying he played center.

I liked Coach B. That was a pretty strange ending to all of that.

Early on there was a poster who posed as a woman. I don't recall the name, but s/he ended up admitting s/he was in reality a man. Bizarre for sure. I am sure a few around here remember that.

peen...when I was a sophomore, I was the starting center on the offensive side and the starting OLB on defense for the first 6 games until I broke a bone in my wrist in practice missing the last 3 games of the season.

As for the comment about coachb and the attempt to label me a fake or phony...I can back everything up as the records live on.

Why is it that some on this board have a difficult time believing that a fellow board member actually played the game and is willing to share their thoughts and information based on their experiences..?

The title of the workout says that it's for power, (and for runners). Do you honestly think running hills (or a fire escape) in a weighted vest is going to do anything when a 200+ lb safety launches himself into a locked knee?


Maybe you weren't picking up what I was putting down. I think your whole shtick is a joke. Trying to posture like you know more about injury prevention than people who are paid for their expertise... citing your high school playing days as some sort of evidence to back up claims... it's laughable.

Take me for instance. I played ice hockey growing up (goalie). The only injury I ever had through high school and college was a fractured thumb when someone swung their stick and whacked my hand when I went to cover a puck. Other than that injury (which I played with after getting a cast), nothing. No soft tissue stuff or tears or anything. You wanna know what my secret was? Nothing. I barely did any training other than practicing on ice. I was usually the smallest guy on the team and never lost time to injury despite being in goal every practice and every game.

The difference is I'm not going to try to draw parallels between high school and college (club) hockey and the pros. That's because I have a little common sense and no axe to grind.

Skipping wrist day, eh?? You'd fit right in here in Berea, where every player skips the workout for the body part he is most likely to injure!

And YOU obviously skipped thumb day.

oobs...you ever run stairs for conditioning..?

Running stairs and hills is not some miracle workout that is going to be the answer for everyone looking to get themselves in better shape or to help protect themselves from injury...but it worked well for me and it seems to have worked well for Walter Payton who earned nearly every award a Professional football player can earn. Even if Walter Payton attributes his ability to stay healthy for 13 seasons, there is bound to some on this message board calling Walter a liar.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Jerry Rice...
https://www.stack.com/a/jerry-rices-legendary-hill-training/

..Jerry Rice played 20 seasons, starting 284 regular season games out of 303 games..and starting 29 out of 29 post season games.
 
.....
Conditioning,Football
Jerry Rice’s Legendary Hill Training
By STACK
Published On: 2010-10-17
https://www.stack.com/a/jerry-rices-legendary-hill-training/ 
 

Jerry Rice, 2010 NFL Hall of Fame inductee, played a remarkable 20 years as a pro, collecting more than 1,500 career receptions, 197 touchdowns, and three Super Bowl rings.

Whether it was late in the fourth quarter, during one of his Super Bowl appearances, or in the latter stages of his career (post-49ers), it didn’t matter: #80 never shut down. He would race past double teams, outleap corners on jump balls and shed tacklers to break free into the end zone.

 

Rice’s secret?

“The Hill” at The Edgewood Park & Natural Preserve, the covert training destination for the playmaking wideout and running back Roger Craig during the golden age of 49ers football.

Hill training is wildly popular among both high-performing athletes and fitness enthusiasts, but Rice and company were the originators. Hitting the rugged hills is what the NFL legend attributes his body of work to—as well as his finely-tuned body.

Rice would run insane distances uphill—2½ miles nonstop—each and every day during the off-season.

 

“The main thing for me was conditioning, and it started with this hill,” Rice told us this past summer during our visit to the park where he put in some of his finest work. “We did this, and it’s what made us capable of outdoing everybody else during the football season. It was about being able to put your body through pain.”

His cooldown—ten 100-yard “Easy Stride-Outs” up the first leg of the hill—was more intense than some players’ entire workouts.

“I was always surprised,” he said, “because there were a lot of professional players that would wait until training camp to work themselves into shape.”

Not Rice.

“I would take two weeks off during the off-season, then go right back into my regimen.”

We joined the great #80 for the cool-down portion of his hill runs this summer. (Yes, he’s still doing his thing at 48 years of age.) From a starting point at the bottom of the hill, we ran approximately 60 yards up to a slight bend in the path, turned, and ran back down. After a 20-second breather, it was back up the hill—repeatedly, in work-to-rest fashion, ten times.

After a few light laps around the gravel lot at the base of the hill, it was back to work for ten “quick bursts,” as Rice called them. Same thing, but working for an explosive start. We sprinted 20 to 30 yards uphill, focusing on pumping the knees and driving the elbows forward and back.

Rice’s advice for hill training newcomers: “Leave your ego at the bottom of the hill. The type of conditioning that goes into this, it’s something you have to work at every day.”

 If you’re not doing it, hill training could be the missing link in your routine. Get started today, and maybe one day you’ll find yourself sprinting uphill for the same remarkable distance and at the same remarkable pace that Jerry Rice once did—and still does today.

We’ve got plenty more from Rice, so be on the lookout for future interview content from the all-time great. Meanwhile, view the following video highlighting his legendary hill training:

And he did it for two decades!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


The Patriots use an old-school training method that players hate, and it paid off big-time in the Super Bowl

Scott Davis Feb 7, 2017, 1:17 PM EST
link


When the Atlanta Falcons faltered down the stretch of Super Bowl 51 on Sunday, the New England Patriots kept coming.

Over the course of the game, the Patriots ran 99 plays to the Falcons' 49, according to CSN New England's Phil Perry, simply wearing down the Falcons.

Conditioning can be an overlooked aspect of sports, in part because it's hard to see and define. However, in Super Bowl 51, it ended up being a defining factor. The Falcons defense was tired after spending so much time chasing the Patriots, and down the stretch, they couldn't get to Tom Brady or slow down his receivers.

The secret to the Patriots' conditioning is a basic, old-school drill that players alluded to after the game as a deciding factor: sprinting up a hill.

Julian Edelman, one of the game's biggest heroes, said of the Patriots outlasting the Falcons: "We've got these stupid hills in Foxborough that we have to run, like literally, until we left. We all b---- and complain about it. But hey, we do it. We put in the work. We put in the conditioning."

As Perry documented in July, the hills behind the Gillette Stadium are a big part of the Patriots' training. There are two hills, according to Perry. "One is 20 yards long and steep. The other is 60 yards long and features more of a gradual incline," he wrote. They are both finely manicured, with 5-yard lines so players know the distance left to run.

The Patriots run these hills in training camp, but apparently they were running them up until the week before the Super Bowl.

"We were running the hill last week," said tight end Martellus Bennett. "And I was like, who runs the hill in Week 23? Guys were tired, but guys got out there, they ran full speed up the hill. We're just a team that works."

It's not a fun task for the players. Wide receiver Danny Amendola told Perry that "it's a beast, for sure," while tackle Nate Solder compared it to taking medicine.

However, the act of sprinting up the incline helps players. Nick Caserio, the director of player personnel, told Sirius XM Radio over the summer: "That hill's great. That hill gets them in shape pretty quickly. Those guys don't like it, but they'll probably, in the fourth quarter, realize it's worthwhile."

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~.

The Broncos...

Are you saying the Browns don't have incline machines where players run on a grade? Or are you saying you have no idea if they do or not? I'm guessing you have no idea. In fact I would put money on it. It sounds as if you may have missed your calling. I suppose weighted sleds wouldn't accomplish the same thing? Dear Lord man.

[video][/video]

oob...a football player has to "want it"...

I do understand that some players just don't have "the desire" to do anything extra to improve themselves andf unless the training staff mandates such a workout most players are not going expend the energy to do a tough voluntary workout like some of the NFL's greatest players have done.

Myself, I wanted to do more to make sure I was ready to compete for what ever challenge I might face. I wanted to make the most of my opportunities.

....if only all those injured Browns players had your drive.

Well some of them don't want to be in top shape. They want their careers to be short and plagued by injuries. They don't care about extending their careers so they can make more money than they possibly will at any other point in their life. *I didn't think purple was necessary.*

It is true that on rare occasion you will find a player who is lazy or can't seem to stick with a diet regiment. But this is a rarity and no way explains a laundry list on injuries. The more he posts the farther the stupidity of it grows.

I thought it was our S&C team wasn't doing their job. Now you're saying our players just don't "want it".

You'd be a lot more effective at grinding that axe if you kept your story straight (then even better if it made sense).

I gave examples of some of the best players to ever play the game, Jerry Rice and Walter Payton who credited there workout routines for the successes they have had. Both credited their ran hills that helped them develop superior condition compared to their opponents. Both had exceptionally long careers with few games missed due to injuries...Payton had a 13 yr. career while Rice's career was 20 yrs long, missing only 19 regular season games over that span.

I gave two examples of teams that required hill running as part of their conditioning program...

The Broncos...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VozERJoI5eM&t=2s

The Patriots... https://www.businessinsider.com/patriots-players-hill-sprints-paid-off-in-super-bowl-2017-2

If a team is not going to require workouts such as running an incline such as hills or stairs, for example then it's up to the individual to set their own goals and devise their own workouts. But any idea that running an incline, such as hills or stairs is not beneficial to those looking improve their durability and help to avoid injuries..that issue should be settled.

The Browns had a serious injury problem last season and I happen to believe that the Brown need to adjust their approach to training and conditioning. Our own players realize that the team has in injury problem that is affecting their ability perform and compete at a playoff and super bowl level. As Myles said, we had a roster that was good enough to compete in the Super Bowl...but the injuries stood in the way.

Nick Chubb has one of the most effective workout regimens, and yet he tore up a knee horribly.

Sometimes injuries just happen. LeCharles Bentley lost his career following the 1st snap of his Browns career. Unfortunalely, injuries happen.

To make the record clear, I didn't say you were like Coach B. I said I didn't think so. I am glad I was able to recall you playing center from some discussion we had more than a few years ago. I don't doubt you played football. Many of us played.

Don't the Browns have "Belicheck Hill" anymore? I know they had it at one time. I am sure most in here have read stories about Bill installing a hill at the practice facility for the said purpose of inclined sprints.

As someone pointed out, treadmills today can produce incline. They may not be as steep, but I am not sure that at some point the incline doesn't matter all that much. Sports science has probably determined what incline, how many sprints and at what length of time produce optimal benefit.

You'll have to understand that facts can ever be allowed to get in the way of an agenda.

Peen...The last time I attended training camp in Berea, the Hill was there but it didn't look like it was being used.

Here is a picture of two Browns players running a Hill but reading the text below the picture, there seems to be a question just where the hill in the picture was located on the training grounds.

The date on the picture published by Dawgs of Nature is Jun 12, 2012; Berea, OH

Here is the link:

https://www.dawgsbynature.com/2012/...s-caption-contest-6-16-running-up-a-hill

So an inclined treadmill doesn't serve the same purpose?

mac, I can only lead a horse to water. You have to take that first drink.

Job Opportunity- Strength & Conditioning Intern - Cleveland Browns (Berea · OH)
https://www.teamworkonline.com/foot...698/strength-conditioning-intern-2070478

I found a picture of the Hill, taken from the Beech Street gate at the Browns Training Camp in Berea.

The picture appeared in a Cleveland.com article,

titled... Cleveland Browns Training Camp in Berea opens July 25

dated...Updated: Jul. 18, 2013, 4:40 p.m.|Published: Jul. 18, 2013, 3:40 p.m.

link... https://www.cleveland.com/berea/2013/07/cleveland_browns_training_camp_4.html

The Hill is to the right of the building and is a bit grainy.

The Hill was still there at the Berea training facility as of July 18, 2013.

The Hill is gone if my memory is correct. I don't remember seeing it the last few years.

GM..thanks for the info.

I did a search titled...Pictures of the Cleveland Browns Training Camp in Berea...and I was able pull up pages of snapshots showing the players going through workout with the background showing the Hill location at various moments in time.

The Hill was still visible in 2013...at some point in time the Hill was turned into an advertising prop used to promote FORD products.

There are pictures dated 2022 and it appears that Hill is no longer visible.

So an inclined treadmill doesn't serve the same purpose?

The hill was there on the side of the building the last time I was at TC. Chud was the coach. We got to see such stars as Brandon Weeden, Barkevious Mingo and Monterio Hardesty,

pit..IF our players did use an inclining treadmill it could provide a good workout that might be close to running a hill or running stairs. But, looking at the injury results the Browns racked up this season...if a player relied on an incline treadmill to mimic a hill/stairs workout the individuals would have chart the results of their workouts to see if they were able achieve their goals.

Look at how long it took guys like Rice and Walter Payton to accumulate enough information about their workouts to conclude that their workouts helped to keep them injury free...20 yrs for Rice and 13 yrs for Payton. Just do the real thing that has already been proven to work for some of football's very best players.

I know what worked for me and I didn't have enough time to test out every workout routine that came along.

And look at all the scientific development in strength and conditioning science since Jerry Rice and Walter Payton played. I would suggest rather than to bloviate about something you have had no experience other than at the high school level decades ago maybe you should look at all the advances into sports science since that time. I'm pretty sure that billion dollar corporations using the latest advancements in sports science have a better clue as to what's going on than you do.

So..with all the latest/greatest exercise equipment..why are the Browns one of (if not the most) injured teams in the NFL?

The issue of Brown injuries it's not just a 2023 issue. Here is article concerning Browns injuries during the 2021 season.

Browns Announce Significant Upgrades to Training and Recovery Facilities

Browns announced Wednesday a significant plan of upgrades and new facilities specifically targeting recovery and training at the team's site in Berea, Ohio.

ANDREW SPAYDE, Apr 21st, 2022, 2:22 PM
link


BEREA, Ohio -- The Browns announced Wednesday a significant plan of upgrades and new facilities specifically targeting recovery and training at the team's training facility in Berea, Ohio. You'd be forgiven for missing this news in the flurry of stories that came out yesterday as the Browns returned to Berea for the beginning of offseason activities but it's big news for one of the most troubling areas of the team over the past few seasons. The team announced the following improvements to their facilities:

A cryo chamber, which uses freezing or near-freezing temperatures to reduce inflammation and swelling around joints while promoting immune response.

A photobiomodulation light bed, which uses red and near-infrared light to decrease inflammation, reduce pain, improve energy, improve sleep, increase circulation, enhance soft-tissue healing, enhance mood and reduce stress.

A hyperbaric chamber, which increases air pressure and oxygen levels to improve recovery.

An altitude chamber, which increases oxygen in the body to improve recovery and cardiovascular training.

A deprivation float tank, which implements sensory deprivation to enhance mental and physical relaxation and recovery.

A fuel bar that will help the training staff optimize the timing of nutritional delivery in players' individual nutrition plans.

A yoga area, where sessions will be held twice a week in training camp and on Fridays during the regular season.

A room devoted to phlebotomy, which will be used for biomarker assessments and IV therapy and will support players' metabolism, promote recovery and replenish electrolytes

The training and recovery area will replace the weight room, which will remain in the indoor field house. The work began in early March and is expected to be completed before the team reports for training camp in late July. It will also include offices for the Browns' training and performance staff, which will see them all located in the same part of the building for the first time.

"It doesn't replace hard work by any means," said Shaun Huls, the Browns Director of High Performance "It's bringing the staff together, and we'll all be in a centralized location. After we identified the direction we wanted to go in, everyone in the building was just aligned and really put the plans together on the fly."

"Everyone on the staff is excited," said Huls, "It's all another component of the program. Having these new, innovative ways will serve a purpose and get more work out of the players because they'll be able to recover faster and feel better. In turn, you'll get guys to want to do more (on the field)."

The Browns' shortcomings in this area were laid bare in some direct comments by star safety John Johnson III after the 2021 season. In his postseason conference, he said "The biggest thing for me is being proactive about our health and our bodies. [Specifically,] soft tissue [injuries.] I think we can get a yoga instructor in [the building] to work on our flexibility."

Johnson continued, "I think our relationship with the training staff can be a whole lot better. Just staying proactive about things, getting guys in there that usually wouldn't until they're hurt. Trying to implement a plan for each individual player on the team, I think that goes a long way."

The team was motivated to address the significant number of soft tissue injuries that have plagued the team, especially in the preseason and it seems likely that Johnson's pointed comments were part of the inspiration for the decision.

As persuasive as John Johnson III's words may have been after the regular season, the data on the soft tissue injuries suffered by the Browns in 2021 is even more convincing and something the Browns are all too aware of. Soft tissue injuries comprise 5 separate areas of the body, the groin, hamstrings, ankles, knees, and calves. In total, 33 players reported soft tissue injuries, with multiple reporting several soft tissue injuries over the course of the preseason and regular season.

There were eight players with groin issues, nineteen players with hamstring issues, ten players with ankle issues, sixteen with knee issues, and five with calf issues. Some of these issues could have been from the previous season, but it does not include Odell Beckham Jr. or J.C. Tretter who both battled knee injuries throughout the preseason and regular season.

The Browns and Browns fans will be hoping that the changes planned for the Browns facility ahead of the 2022 season will help to reverse this worrying trend so that it doesn't run the risk of torpedoing another promising season for the team.

Since you have a degree in Sports Science why don't you tell us..... factually. Instead of taking random shots with nothing to verify it.

The following was written February 23, 2022..after last season. Notice, some of the very same issues I have brought up in this thread were subjects of discussion last season.

Those looking to prove me wrong...DO SO..!

The Browns have a problem in their Strength and Conditioning Department and have had for at least two years.


Is There A Problem With The Browns’ Medical Staff?

By Wendi Oliveros February 23, 2022 @WendiOliveros1

link

The Cleveland Browns had a host of injuries during the 2021 NFL season.

That is unfortunately not unusual as other teams dealt with similar issues.

What is different is the fact that Browns players may have played or returned to play quicker than they should have.

While no one knows what goes on between the medical staff and a professional athlete, it appears that the Browns medical staff’s procedures in 2021 should be audited.

Jarvis Landry‘s latest admission about coming back before he was fully recovered sheds new light on what appeared to be a recurring theme for the Browns this season.

BenAxelrod
Jarvis Landry admitting he came back way too early this season speaks to what seemed to be a larger issue with the way the Browns handled injuries this season. Can think of at least three other examples of players who seemed to have similar experiences.
9:11 AM · Feb 22, 2022

Landry was not the only player in this situation.


Gio - 216
@gcastelli216
Wills, Landry, Baker, etc. Couple that with John Johnson saying that the team could have a better relationship w/training staff. #Browns mismanaged injuries all year. Period.

Ben Axelrod
@BenAxelrod
Jarvis Landry admitting he came back way too early this season speaks to what seemed to be a larger issue with the way the Browns handled injuries this season. Can think of at least three other examples of players who seemed to have similar experiences.

B-mac™️
@BmacGOAT
All 3 of the starting Ravens running backs tear their ACL before week 1? #RavensFlock https://twitter.com/AIIeeez/status/1429300458787647489/video/1


As a result, it was not surprising to hear that Coach John Harbaugh was going to take a long, hard look at the Ravens’ strength and conditioning practices this offseason. Following Injury-Plagued Season, Harbaugh Pledges Full Review Of Ravens' Strength And Conditioning

Jedrick Wills, Baker Mayfield, and Donovan Peoples-Jones also seemed to be in a regular cycle of dealing with an injury, healing, playing, and reaggravating the injury.

Buffalo Bills Stayed Healthy

The medical and strength and conditioning teams of an NFL team should be working together to come up with the best methods to prevent player injuries and to have a method of treatment that promotes a safe and complete recovery should a player get hurt.

Teams are not always plagued by injuries.

The Cleveland Browns warm up prior to a game against the Buffalo Bills at Ralph Wilson Stadium in Orchard Park, New York. The Browns defeated the Bills 6-3 for Cleveland's first win of the season.



The Cleveland Browns had a host of injuries during the 2021 NFL season.

That is unfortunately not unusual as other teams dealt with similar issues.

What is different is the fact that Browns players may have played or returned to play quicker than they should have.


While no one knows what goes on between the medical staff and a professional athlete, it appears that the Browns medical staff’s procedures in 2021 should be audited.

Jarvis Landry‘s latest admission about coming back before he was fully recovered sheds new light on what appeared to be a recurring theme for the Browns this season.


Landry was not the only player in this situation.


Jedrick Wills, Baker Mayfield, and Donovan Peoples-Jones also seemed to be in a regular cycle of dealing with an injury, healing, playing, and reaggravating the injury.


What Does It Mean?

Andrew Berry is a smart guy.

Presumably, every facet of the team is reviewed and evaluated in the offseason so he probably has the medical staff on his list for this process
Consider the Buffalo Bills whose injury report had only one player in mid-January.



What Does It Mean?

Andrew Berry is a smart guy.

Presumably, every facet of the team is reviewed and evaluated in the offseason so he probably has the medical staff on his list for this process.


Following a review, changes could be necessary to both the medical and the strength and conditioning protocols.

John Johnson III already provided a recommendation to add yoga for overall strength and conditioning.

It is likely he had yoga available in Los Angeles when he was with the Rams.

Hayden Grove
@H_Grove
·
Follow
John Johnson III says he would love a yoga instructor in the building for the Browns, along with other things in regards to training: "I think our relationship with the training staff could be a whole lot better..." #Browns

The Browns Are Not The Only Team With This Issue

The Baltimore Ravens lost their running backs one after another in the preseason to ACL injuries.


The Cleveland Browns warm up prior to a game against the Buffalo Bills at Ralph Wilson Stadium in Orchard Park, New York. The Browns defeated the Bills 6-3 for Cleveland's first win of the season.



The Cleveland Browns had a host of injuries during the 2021 NFL season.

That is unfortunately not unusual as other teams dealt with similar issues.

What is different is the fact that Browns players may have played or returned to play quicker than they should have.


While no one knows what goes on between the medical staff and a professional athlete, it appears that the Browns medical staff’s procedures in 2021 should be audited.

Jarvis Landry‘s latest admission about coming back before he was fully recovered sheds new light on what appeared to be a recurring theme for the Browns this season.


Landry was not the only player in this situation.



Jedrick Wills, Baker Mayfield, and Donovan Peoples-Jones also seemed to be in a regular cycle of dealing with an injury, healing, playing, and reaggravating the injury.



What Does It Mean?
Andrew Berry is a smart guy.

Presumably, every facet of the team is reviewed and evaluated in the offseason so he probably has the medical staff on his list for this process.


Following a review, changes could be necessary to both the medical and the strength and conditioning protocols.

John Johnson III already provided a recommendation to add yoga for overall strength and conditioning.

It is likely he had yoga available in Los Angeles when he was with the Rams.


The Browns Are Not The Only Team With This Issue

The Baltimore Ravens lost their running backs one after another in the preseason to ACL injuries.


As a result, it was not surprising to hear that Coach John Harbaugh was going to take a long, hard look at the Ravens’ strength and conditioning practices this offseason.

You are here: Home / Daily News / Is There A Problem With The Browns’ Medical Staff?
Is There A Problem With The Browns’ Medical Staff?
By Wendi Oliveros February 23, 2022 @WendiOliveros1

The Cleveland Browns warm up prior to a game against the Buffalo Bills at Ralph Wilson Stadium in Orchard Park, New York. The Browns defeated the Bills 6-3 for Cleveland's first win of the season.



The Cleveland Browns had a host of injuries during the 2021 NFL season.

That is unfortunately not unusual as other teams dealt with similar issues.

What is different is the fact that Browns players may have played or returned to play quicker than they should have.


While no one knows what goes on between the medical staff and a professional athlete, it appears that the Browns medical staff’s procedures in 2021 should be audited.

Jarvis Landry‘s latest admission about coming back before he was fully recovered sheds new light on what appeared to be a recurring theme for the Browns this season.


Landry was not the only player in this situation.



Jedrick Wills, Baker Mayfield, and Donovan Peoples-Jones also seemed to be in a regular cycle of dealing with an injury, healing, playing, and reaggravating the injury.



What Does It Mean?
Andrew Berry is a smart guy.

Presumably, every facet of the team is reviewed and evaluated in the offseason so he probably has the medical staff on his list for this process.


Following a review, changes could be necessary to both the medical and the strength and conditioning protocols.

John Johnson III already provided a recommendation to add yoga for overall strength and conditioning.

It is likely he had yoga available in Los Angeles when he was with the Rams.




The Browns Are Not The Only Team With This Issue
The Baltimore Ravens lost their running backs one after another in the preseason to ACL injuries.


As a result, it was not surprising to hear that Coach John Harbaugh was going to take a long, hard look at the Ravens’ strength and conditioning practices this offseason.


Buffalo Bills Stayed Healthy

The medical and strength and conditioning teams of an NFL team should be working together to come up with the best methods to prevent player injuries and to have a method of treatment that promotes a safe and complete recovery should a player get hurt.

Teams are not always plagued by injuries.

Consider the Buffalo Bills whose injury report had only one player in mid-January.

The Bills don’t let their players do squats during the season.

Squats are part of the offseason regimen.

Is there a direct correlation between the lack of squats and minimal injuries?

There seems to be, but it involves further review.

Conclusion

Injuries are an inevitable part of the game; however, teams seem to minimize and manage them better than the Browns did in 2021.

Those same teams tend to get to the playoffs because they are healthier.

If the Browns have problems in these areas, this is the time to make changes and get better.

For the Browns to take the next step and be a playoff and Super Bowl contender, the strength and conditioning and medical parts of the organization need to do better to protect the players’ health.

What the heck is that? It's a mish mash of repetitive tweets with no useful information to make your point. The same few lines are repeated multiple times. John Johnson recommending yoga, because "is it likely he may have had it in Los Angeles?". Good Lord. You can do better than that.

I have to admit, that was a tough article to follow.

As you read through this article, you might believe the author is discussing the Browns 2023/24 season, but the article is actually referring to the 2021 season. That would be an indication of just how long "the Browns injury rate" has been a concern of some Browns players...IT'S BEEN YEARS dating back to at least 2021.

How much progress has been made to reduce the Browns injury rate...? Based on the number of injuries the Browns suffered during the 2023 season, it seems that little has been accomplished to reduce the injury rate and it might have actually gotten worse since 2021.

Soft Tissue Injuries have been the main concern of some and how to address the issue was one of JJ3's concerns...yoga.

Joe Johnson also mentions the need for better relations between the training staff and the players. I'm not sure exactly what or who he might be talking about. Are there problems with some individuals of the training staff and how they relate to the players health concerns..?

Those running the franchise can pretend that the Browns just have "bad luck" when it comes to dealing with injuries...or they can face reality and do more to address the high rate of injuries that have plagued the team for the past few years.



Does John Johnson Have A Point About Strength And Conditioning Staff?

January 15, 2022
link



Relationships in the NFL are important.

The chemistry between the front office, coaches, and players goes a long way toward building prolonged success.

If something is off, negative results will follow.

This typically applies to general managers, head coaches, and coordinators.

However, another group should not be forgotten.

The strength and conditioning staff for a team are also important.

What also matters is the relationship between the players and this group.

After all, in terms of dealing with injuries and recovering from them, the strength and conditioning staff is who players work with.

This week, Cleveland Browns safety John Johnson III discussed this dynamic in Cleveland.

He claimed the relationship between the training staff and the players could use some work heading into next season.

Soft Tissue Injuries

Johnson mentions wanting a yoga instructor in the building for next season.

Soft tissue and muscle injuries, presumably, are a big reason for this desire.

Yoga promotes flexibility and helps prevent some of the more common injuries across the NFL, such as hamstring issues.

Think about Nick Chubb for a second.

One thing that bothered him during points of the season was his calf injury.

Yoga is a great way for anyone to build up leg muscles, especially the calf.

Chubb is someone who might also appreciate some in-house yoga next season.

The Browns were certainly not the only team impacted by injuries this season.

COVID-19 also played a role in guys missing time. However, it’s impossible to deny that nagging injuries negatively affected the Browns this season.

The addition of a yoga instructor and a better, working relationship with the strength and conditioning staff could help prevent some of these injuries next season.

BrownsNation wrote about potential issues here back in November.

Perhaps this is an area that needs more attention, and Johnson seems willing to spark that conversation.

Best Interest in Mind?

NFL players aren’t immediately fully trusting of new strength coaches.

Disasters, such as those noted in Washington a few years ago, keep players skeptical.

Does an athletic training staff really have the best interest of the players in mind?

Antonio Brown certainly didn’t seem to think so in Tampa Bay.

Although, he may not be the best defense for my case.

he Browns’ strength and conditioning staff developing a poor reputation is another headache the team doesn’t need right now.

The fan base has certainly taken notice of the number of injuries that pile up.

It’s hard to tell whether a complete overhaul of the staff will occur or if minor tweaks will be made.

Perhaps the solution is as simple as bringing in a yoga instructor and having players work closer with the training staff.

The Browns were plagued by injuries this season, so changes of some sort are to be expected.

Well that one was easy...

I stopped at John Johnson. 🤣

Trying to assassinate sources who dare speak out about ways to cut down on injuries...what a great approach..!

Finding out that the players had concerns about this training department, dating back to the 2021 season..that fact kind of destroys the theory that the 2024 injury issue was a "one time event" or that the Browns just had "bad luck" when it comes to injuries.

The reality is, the Browns have had "an ongoing issue" that dates backs years.

After JJ3 spoke out in Jan. 2022 with concerns about the Browns injury situation during the 2021 season the Browns did respond with upgrades associated with the training program.

In April 2022, the Browns announced the the addition of the following:
link
A cryo chamber..
A photobiomodulation light bed..
A hyperbaric chamber..
A room devoted to phlebotomy..
An altitude chamber..
A deprivation float tank..
A fuel bar..
A yoga area..

The training and recovery area will replace the weight room, which will remain in the indoor field house. The work began in early March and is expected to be completed before the team reports for training camp in late July. It will also include offices for the Browns' training and performance staff, which will see them all located in the same part of the building for the first time.

"It doesn't replace hard work by any means," said Shaun Huls, the Browns Director of High Performance "It's bringing the staff together, and we'll all be in a centralized location. After we identified the direction we wanted to go in, everyone in the building was just aligned and really put the plans together on the fly."

"Everyone on the staff is excited," said Huls, "It's all another component of the program. Having these new, innovative ways will serve a purpose and get more work out of the players because they'll be able to recover faster and feel better. In turn, you'll get guys to want to do more (on the field)."

The Browns' shortcomings in this area were laid bare in some direct comments by star safety John Johnson III after the 2021 season. In his postseason conference, he said "The biggest thing for me is being proactive about our health and our bodies. [Specifically,] soft tissue [injuries.] I think we can get a yoga instructor in [the building] to work on our flexibility."

Johnson continued, "I think our relationship with the training staff can be a whole lot better. Just staying proactive about things, getting guys in there that usually wouldn't until they're hurt. Trying to implement a plan for each individual player on the team, I think that goes a long way."

The team was motivated to address the significant number of soft tissue injuries that have plagued the team, especially in the preseason and it seems likely that Johnson's pointed comments were part of the inspiration for the decision.

As persuasive as John Johnson III's words may have been after the regular season, the data on the soft tissue injuries suffered by the Browns in 2021 is even more convincing and something the Browns are all too aware of. Soft tissue injuries comprise 5 separate areas of the body, the groin, hamstrings, ankles, knees, and calves. In total, 33 players reported soft tissue injuries, with multiple reporting several soft tissue injuries over the course of the preseason and regular season.

There were eight players with groin issues, nineteen players with hamstring issues, ten players with ankle issues, sixteen with knee issues, and five with calf issues. Some of these issues could have been from the previous season, but it does not include Odell Beckham Jr. or J.C. Tretter who both battled knee injuries throughout the preseason and regular season.

The Browns and Browns fans will be hoping that the changes planned for the Browns facility ahead of the 2022 season will help to reverse this worrying trend so that it doesn't run the risk of torpedoing another promising season for the team.

You refused to answer my question mutiple times Mac. So I'm going to ask you another one

Why is it the only complaint we have heard is from Johnson. Yet Josh, and Katie have been with the Browns since 2016. Ty has bee here since 2017, Larry, Dale, and Monte have been here since 2018, and Shaun has been here since 2020. If they were not doing their job they would have been fired by now, and we sure as hell would have heard from multiple players not just one.

Maybe it just comes down to us being unlucky with the injuries. Who knows?

You've officially hit bot status. That article was a dumpster fire, not unlike the overall point you're trying to make.

One of the Tweets that was repeated in your copy-paste was that the Ravens had all 3 of their RBs tear ACLs in the preseason (in addition to a whole host of other injuries that same year). NFL football is a bigboy job that does a number on the body. While the Ravens message boards also probably had a clown or two with an axe to grind, all that proves is that injuries happen in the NFL, and sometimes there are bad years.

Those tweets are riddled with "may have caused", "could have" statements that really don't carry any sort of weight, especially considering the source (Twitter personalities like Hayden Grove).

All the upgrades mentioned in the 2022 article above..the addition of..
A cryo chamber..
A photobiomodulation light bed..
A hyperbaric chamber..
A room devoted to phlebotomy..
An altitude chamber..
A deprivation float tank..
A fuel bar..
A yoga area..

...they do show a degree of concern by the franchise... BUT..

..did these improvements reduce the number of injuries..? Looking at the results of the 2023 season it seems that more has to be done.

The improvements made by the Browns seems to focus heavily on "injury recovery" and the latest technology to help players recover quickly...

IMO, the one issue that the Browns are not addressing enough or lagging behind on..INJURY PREVENTION.

Stretching to avoid injuries is one area that each player must address on a personal level or on a level where a member(s) of the training staff is/are in tune with the needs of each player.

In a Jared Mueller article
Dated:Mon, Jan 10, 2022
Link
JJ3 does mention that he would love a yoga instructor in the building for the Browns, along with other things in regards to training: "I think our relationship with the training staff could be a whole lot better..."

I'm not sure what JJ3 means when he speaks about the need for a better relationship between the training department and and the players but it does sound as if there is something more that needs to be done. Until we can identify exactly what he was referring to, we can only guess. Also, while the Browns management and training staff likely know what JJ3 was talking about, obviously the franchise would rather not discuss the subject in a public way or the issue has been addressed.

GM..as for your question about JJ3 being the only one to speak out...You already know the answerl..!

JJ3 signed on as a free agent with 2021 being his first season as a Brown and he likely didn't realize that Haslams Browns are not supposed to talk "out of school".

Anything that might reflect negatively on Haslam or his staff is frowned upon. JJ3 was known for being outspoken when the Browns signed him but JJ might not have realized what the boundary line were until he went further that Haslam was comfortable with. JJ3 did get results, with some of the issues he specifically mentioned were addressed within a couple of months from JJ speaking out.

To my knowledge JJ3 did not have much to say about the subject of the training staff and the Browns cut him after the 2022 season and JJ signed back with the team that drafted him..the Rams.

oobs...what did the Ravens do when their strength and conditioning department failed to produce acceptable results..?

Yes I do already know the answer. Which Is why I know your wrong Mac.

gm...wrong about what?

That the Browns don't have a problem with the amount of injuries they have suffered in the last few seasons?..I'm wrong about that..?

Myles Garrett believes the Browns would have been in the Super Bowl had they stayed healthy...is Myles wrong..?

It's my opinion that PREVENTING INJURIES is the #1 issue facing the Browns.

Bottom Line
Myles Garrett's belief in the Browns' potential with a healthy roster underscores the impact of injuries on the team's performance.
link

So what did Myles say about the strength and conditioning staff? Do you mean he's came to an aha moment that dictates a healthy team has all of their starters so they'll perform better? Yet another swing and a miss.

A quick Google search showed that they fired their strength and conditioning coach in the 2023 offseason... and promoted his underling. One of the factoids of info was that the S&C coaching had received a grade of F- in the players poll (I believe it was the same poll that has been referenced in this thread).

So yeah, they fired a guy but then replaced him with his own underling. So they didn't really do much.

Injuries happen. You've swung and missed again.

Refs, please end this gong show and lock the thread. Mac, please find another drum to beat upon.

Your wrong about this subject. In plain English The players speak out all the time if there is a problem. These guys treat the NFL as a Business (which it is) and any player that feels a team is doing something to ruin their career, or cost them Millions, or even a few hundred thousand they will not sit back and take it. Your doing nothing but placing blame on a group of people when you don't have a clue bro. As I pointed out to you already the People you are complaining about have been around since 2016, 17, and 18. One person joined the staff in 2020. Yet you are just now barking about it, and we heard crickets from you all those years.

GM..so Myles Garrett is wrong when he speaks out about just how damaging the INJURIES were to the team's playoff/Super Bowl goals...and you are OK with that..?

OR, are you simply going to call Myles Garrett a liar and proclaim he doesn't know what he is talking about..?

Bottom line..the Browns have a serious issue when it comes to PREVENTING INJURIES and it not only cost the Browns a serious shot at the a Super Bowl appearance this year...it also cost the Browns a ton of money due to lost time on the job.

Quantifying All of The 2023 Browns' Injuries
link

TOTAL - $40,978,651

lamp..no one is forcing you to participate in this thread...

Your approach is rather odd, imo..asking the board refs to censor me because I dare to speak out and discuss the subject of injuries.

oobs...due to the Ravens rash of injuries they decided to take a serious look at their training and conditioning department and they made changes.

The Browns franchise seems to have the same attitude that you have...oh well, nothing the Browns (ownership) can do about the rash of injuries because injuries "just happen"...the Ravens used to have the same attitude about how they dealt with their own injury problem.

They made equipment updates to improve their program based on feedback from that player poll. You yourself have posted this. So they care.

Ravens had an actual problem. Their players gave their S&C coach a grade of F-. They fired that guy, but then promoted his underling. If you call that actual change, but not the investment made in the equipment the Browns did.... you're just a clown.

This thread belongs in the Smack Shack. You're no better than Clown Hunter at this point. At least he has the decency to stick where he belongs.

Nice

What the hell are you talking about? Did Garrett say a single word trying to indicate it was the fault of the strength and conditioning staff? You are taking two separate things and trying to play connect the dots. And you're not doing a very good job of it at that.

You're not "speaking out about injuries". You're making speculative at best accusations and attacks on the S&C staff of the Browns. Let's be perfectly clear about that.

With no formal training or education on the topic. Only "Yeah but when I was in high school" BS and it makes you look very foolish.

False equivalency.

Yes, the injuries were a problem this year. That is undeniable.
No, the S&C program could not have affected that in any way.

As an actual trainer and coach, I am telling you: there is absolutely no training regimen that will 100% prevent injuries. Even what might mitigate injuries is subjective guesswork. There is only so far that any soft tissue will stretch/bend before it snaps. There is only so much cumulative damage things can take before they break (think bending a piece of aluminum back and forth repeatedly... that's how lots of muscle tear injuries end up happening). The bottom line is that if they aren't HURT, they have to line up and play, and they get paid to play all-out every snap of every game. So, if they're a little banged up from the previous week(s) and a muscle or ligament pops when they do an explosive move, sometimes, that's just what happens. When a player has a limb trapped and bent at angles joints should go, there is ABSOLUTELY NO TRAINING PROGRAM to prevent that injury. There is no training program that prevents injury from impact, either. The best you can do is put on as much muscle mass as you can and trade heavy bruising for deeper injury and pray the impacts don't happen on bone or joints. Lastly, there is a fine line between being limber enough to move any which way you want like a contortionist and having enough tension in your muscles to be able to play explosively and FAST. The more stretched out you are, the less "quick" your muscle fibers will be. Period.

I did not know this. Thanks!

pjrp...when have I ever said such a thing..?

You are intentionally moving the goal posts to make an argument about something you made up.

So when Myles claimed injuries hurt the Browns in a SB run, you weren't moving the goalposts by trying to tie that to the S&C staff? Dear Lord man. But I mean you played sports back in the day in high school, right?

 
 




We agree on this point...finding how hard and how fast to push the individual you are training..a certain amount of guesswork is involved if the goal is to achieve max conditioning.


Push too hard or too fast and there is a possibility that the trainer ends up injuring their pupil...go too easy and the trainer and pupil might not achieve their goal. When a trainer is dealing with an athlete you need to be careful because in general, athletes have the mindset that NO PAIN/NO GAIN. The athlete pushes themselves too hard, ignoring what their body is telling them.


In some cases, the athlete might not know enough about their own body to accurately interpret what their body is telling them via the pain they feel. The trainer must know something about the athlete they are working with when attempting to judge the limits of how hard and how fast to push the athlete.


IMO, most trainers err on the side of being too easy on the pupil, not wanting to risk injury. 


Is that the case with the Browns training staff..that they have set up individual training programs that err on the side of being TOO EASY, in effort to make sure they don't inflict any injury to the athlete they are attempting to train. 

Here is a good article dealing with under-training...

How to Know if You’re Undertraining
By Brian Grant
Published On: 2021-08-16
link


In today’s world of sport, much is made of overtraining. Seemingly every day, coaches, parents, and athletes are warned of the nasty effects associated with training too hard or too often.

In youth baseball, pitch counts are treated like gospel while the number of jumps is meticulously tracked at volleyball practices. We’ve certainly turned 180 degrees from the “Start counting when it begins to hurt” mentality.

For the most part, these barometers are beneficial. Many athletes need protection from themselves, and coaches should be aware of how much is too much. Making sure life has balance, especially for youth athletes, is vital. However, what’s also important is seeing the fruits of your labor.

An athlete seeing improvements in their performance is paramount. Without noticeable improvements, motivation to train takes a dip, which in turn can cause further waning of performance or burnout. This cycle can become vicious quite quickly.

So, if results are suboptimal, where do we turn? After all, dedicating hundreds if not thousands of hours to a craft builds character, but what about building performance on the track, in the weight room, or on the field. Well, the answers to these situations are largely individual. However, there are some broad, scientific variables to understand related to the phenomenon we refer to as undertraining.

What is undertraining? What variables are associated with it? If you are undertrained, where should you go from here? If these questions pique your curiosity, allow these words to shed some light on the topic of undertraining.

What is Undertraining?
Undertraining refers to a declining or stagnation of performance due to insufficient training frequency, volume, or intensity1.

Practically speaking, though, undertraining means you simply aren’t working hard or smart enough to make the appropriate improvements you desire. As it pertains to team sports, it’s much easier to view undertraining from a “run faster and jump higher” point of view than via batting average or free throw percentage. This is because the latter examples are indicative of far more than speed or strength.

For example, a 14-year-old volleyball player who wants to improve her vertical jump from 22 inches to 24 inches will need to train to make that happen. That much is clear. What’s murkier is how much and how often training is needed. If her vertical jump continues to stay at 22 inches, or worse, it begins trickling down. A few questions then need to be asked.

How to Know if You are Undertraining
Performance Stagnation
This is probably the most important and literal sign of undertraining. Though there are many reasons performance may not be progressing, undertraining is certainly on that menu. If your body isn’t given an appropriate training stimulus, it sees no reason to respond to it. Of course, this is an overly simplistic view, but the principle is sound. A master of taking the easy way out, the human body needs to see adaptation as a must, not a luxury.

To ensure consistent gains, you must follow the holy grail of training, which is progressive overload. Progressive overload basically means the amount and intensity need to be consistently overloaded to force the body to respond with the results you desire. So, if you notice your workout performance is at a stalemate, whether that be sprint times, jump height, or otherwise, consider the fact you may be undertraining.


Boredom
As you may imagine, there’s much more research on overtraining than undertraining. Therefore, these last two points will be more anecdotal in nature. Boredom is as much a concern to long-term progression as anything else, especially for youth athletes. As a physical therapist myself, boredom with a given exercise program is something, I monitor religiously because both compliance and sufficient effort are more likely when it’s enjoyable.

Therefore, coaches’ and athletes’ varying workouts are essential. It’s not that the “old workouts” won’t work. This is no foray into the muscle confusion rabbit hole. However, imagine performing the same speed workout for ten consecutive weeks—effort and concentration wane. Sometimes, human nature is the toughest nut to crack.

Unable to Break a Sweat
Again, this is largely anecdotal, but unless you’re resting 5 minutes between each sprint, you ought to be breaking a sweat and increasing your heart rate while training. Oftentimes, those same people convinced their body is unable to sweat the same folks spending ample practice time handwringing instead of using time efficiently to train. Do yourself or your athletes a favor, and start sweating.



References
1. Haff, G., & Triplett, N. T. (2016). Essentials of strength training and conditioning (4th ed.). Champaign, IL: Human Kinetics.

Much of what you describe is really only attributable to the casual athlete or the average gym goer. Early on, most grossly underestimate their abilities and have to learn to find where their limits are. Most, early on, struggle to really tell the difference between being sore and being hurt. Pretty much every individual with at least 6 months of regular gym attendance in a structured gym program is fairly in-tune with what their body is telling them (I leave out people running their own ad hoc program because those people are prime candidates to be going too hard on easy days and too easy on hard days).

A good trainer NEVER pushes the athlete into territory they shouldn't go. You CAN push them beyond what their mind thinks it can do, but NEVER beyond what their fitness level has them prepared for. The good trainer tests their athletes and then designs programs geared toward specific measurable goals based on the results of the testing, and then they re-test at regular intervals to validate the training while also constantly checking in with the athlete to evaluate how they're doing/feeling, and you adjust things daily, weekly, and at the end of every cycle. All training is a combination of Load + Intensity + Volume. You may increase any two at one time, never all three, and which ones you alter depends on where you are at in a cycle in the grander sense (e.g. are you training for a specific competition, or in the world of football, are you building toward the beginning of the season?). Also in the football world, the trainer will likely switch the athlete to a Maintenance regimen rather than a build cycle simply because the single most important aspect of ANY training program is how you Recover, and mid-season your athletes' bodies are trying to heal themselves so they can play again the following week, they don't need the central nervous system fried from Max Lift attempts, nor do you want to risk a torn pec from going stupidly heavy Benching.

Athletes at the professional level, after playing several years of high school and college ball, and especially those that have more than one season under their belt in the Pro ranks and in very structured training programs do NOT have the problem of not knowing enough about their body to accurately interpret things. All athletes at that level are VERY well attuned to their bodies.

In the end, the ONLY way you can throw shade at the Browns S&C staff for the injuries is if you actually have REAL knowledge of what the various training programs are. Period. Without that information, you're just guessing, at best.

All that said.... what the trainer tells the athlete to do, and the stupid crap the athletes do on their own are often two VERY different things.

I never once heard Myles complain about the Strength and conditioning coaches or nutrition. As far as injuries costing the Browns this season... DUH it happens every year. Teams don't play as well as they could if they had no injuries. There is some luck required having a great season and the luck includes being able to avoid to many injuries.


Not calling Myles or you a liar. But I am saying you don't have any idea what your talking about.

Dang. Black knight should have done hill sprints.

Browns Weight and locker room rated as one of the worst by NFLPA.. so yeah.. there is some credibility that our S&R program needs work

Browns rank 23rd in NFL in NFLPA survey, with players unhappy with weight room, locker room

Scott PetrakFebruary 28, 2024
link


INDIANAPOLIS — The Browns went 11-6 and made the playoffs in 2023 but dropped two spots to 23rd in the NFL Players Association player report card.

The major issues from a year ago remained a problem: The weight room is substandard and the locker room too small.

The union released its second annual survey of the league’s players Wednesday, with 1,706 players having completed it in full, a 77 percent rate, according to union president and former Browns center JC Tretter.

The weight room was shifted to the end of the field house during the pandemic and remains there. The players want a self-contained weight room and don’t like losing 15-20 yards of the already less-than-full-length indoor field. They also said the quality of the equipment is below average.

The weight room was graded a D and the locker room — one of the smallest in the league — a D-plus.

Coach Kevin Stefanski announced plans to build a new weight room.

“Every year you have to be open to everything information-wise to get better,” he said at the scouting combine. “I’m happy to tell you guys, we’re building a new weight room so we know that that’s an area that we want to get better.

“I take input from our players. I feel really strongly about our leaders, our leadership committee, my office downstairs, the door is always open. Even if it’s closed, it’s open. So I welcome input and that will never change.”


Click the link below for details

Scott PetrakFebruary 28, 2024
link

Browns ranked 23rd overall on NFLPA report card

Highlights weight room and locker room as biggest issues

By Leah Doherty (WOIO)
Published: Feb. 28, 2024 at 8:54 PM EST
link

CLEVELAND, Ohio (WOIO) - The NFL Players Association released their second annual team report card, and the Browns ranked in the bottom third of the league.

The NFLPA gathered information from 1,300 players to highlights positives, but also identify areas that need improvement.

The areas the Browns struggled in the most were the weight room and locker room, which were issues in last year’s survey as well.

Since 2020, the Browns weight room has been located in the indoor practice field, taking up 15-20 yards of the field. The Browns received a ‘D’ score for the weight room which was ranked 30th overall.

Below is a breakdown of how the Browns scored in key categories-

--Category--------------Grade-------Rank out of 32
--Treatment of Families--D- -----------26th---
--Food/Cafeteria---------C+------------18th---
--Nutritionist/Dietician---C+------------23rd---
--Locker Room-----------D+------------23rd---
--Training Room----------C+-------------20th---
--Training Staff-----------B---------------24th---
--Weight Room-----------D---------------30th---
--Strength Coaches------B+-------------19th---
--Team Travel------------D---------------23rd---
--Head Coach------------B- -------------28th---
--Ownership-------------B---------------17th---

Browns Head Coach Kevin Stefanski did address the low score on Wednesday in his press conference ahead of the NFL Combine and said it’s an issue that’s being addressed.

“I’m happy to tell you guys, we’re building a new weight room, so we know that that’s an area that we want to get better,” Stefanski said. “I take input from our players. I feel really strongly about our leaders, our leadership committee. My office downstairs, the door is always open, even if it’s closed, it’s open. So I welcome input and that will never change.”

Another area they scored a ‘D’ in was their locker room. According to the report card, the Browns locker room is one of the smallest in the league, and players feel like they don’t have an adequate amount of personal space to simply get changed.

Other low-scoring areas were team travel which received a ‘D’ and was ranked 23rd overall. Only 67 percent of the players felt like they have a comfortable amount of personal space during flights. The Browns are one of seven teams that require some of their players to have roommates the night before a game.

Treatment of families received a ‘D-’ citing that the Browns are one of 12 teams that do not provide their players’ families with a family room at the stadium. The biggest issues were that the postgame family meet-up area is a tent in the parking lot, which is rough in the winter weather, and that early in the season players who had been carted off the field with an injury were not able to contact their wives or loved ones from the locker room to let them know how they were doing.

The Browns ranked highest in ownership which was 17th overall in the league, and strength coaches which earned a ‘B+’ and was 19th overall in the league.

93 percent of the players felt like they get an individualized plan and felt that the strength coaches significantly contribute to their success.

Two-time AP Coach of the Year Kevin Stefanski received a ‘B-’ and was ranked 28th overall. 70 percent of players felt like Stefanski is efficient with his time, and said that he is “somewhat willing to listen to the locker room.”

...Sadly, mac's hill isn't fancy enough for modern players....

This is a mole hill being made into a mountain situation.

"No it's not! They cut out the hill in Berea. That's why all these players keep cramping up!"

If only our S&C coaches were worthy of an A- instead of a B+...


Here's the full set of report cards. You can sort on any of the eleven criteria.
https://nflpa.com/nfl-player-team-report-cards-2024

Atlanta Falcons S&C Coaches.. F-

mac posting multiple iterations of the report like it validates his original point. S&C coaches/staff got higher grades. It's the weight room itself and locker room (not even a room, a section of the indoor field that has the equipment set out... this was a hold-over from COVID, and I believe the old weight room was repurposed for other stuff (cryo chamber, etc).

Browns are supposedly in the process of putting together a new weight room.


What I found odd was comparing the grades vs the rankings. B+ for the S&C staff is good but the ranking is low. Seems weird.

[color:#FFFFCC]The Browns were one of if not the most injured team in the NFL during the 2023/24 season. I seem to take this issue more seriously than most simply because the Browns have NO FIX for the injury problem and there is no sense of urgency as the Browns ownership and management teams have gotten away with the old, lame excuse..it's just the Browns "bad luck"...

...to that excuse, I say BS.

Why do the Browns have such a high rate of injuries?

What are the Browns doing to address their high injury problem..?

I'm not a believer in the excuse that the Browns just have "bad luck" when it comes to their high rate of injuries and I do not believe that there is "nothing that can be done" to improve the Browns injury situation.

There are factors/reasons that contribute to everything that happens and while finding answers might be difficult it does not mean that those most responsible for the Browns injury trend (ownership, management and the training staff) should get A PASS.

First, there is no such thing as "bad luck" and falling back on that excuse is not a solution...it is a "cop-out".

After the 2021 season... JJ3's spoke out about the Browns injury situation, suggesting that Browns training department focus more of their attention on "stretching" and suggesting the need for a dedicated yoga area. The Browns did respond, saying that they were adding an area for yoga when they laid out their new training area which was supposed to happen in early 2022...but it's unknown if the Browns management followed through.

After the 2023 season...the Browns team captain Myles Garrett spoke out about the seriousness of the Browns injury situation in 2023/24, saying that he believes the Cleveland Browns would have been in the Super Bowl had they stayed healthy.

IMO, for a team that has never been in a Super Bowl, such a comment from one of the Browns team captains should have struck a nerve with those running the franchise.The Browns management allowed one of their best opportunities to finally get to the Super Bowl, letting it slide by because they did not pay enough attention to their injury problems.

Feb 28, 2024: NFLPA publishes their results of their annual survey given to the players who are asked to rate various areas of their franchise related to working conditions. I'm the most concerned about how the opinions of the Browns players, concerning the Browns weight room, strength coaches, training room, training staff.

How the Browns compare to the other 31 teams is what I'm concerned with. What I'm looking for from the Browns is "improvement" compared to the other 31 NFL team, not someone else's grade/opinion. The goal should begin with improving within each category from the lower half of franchises to the upper half of the 31 other NFL teams.


..Category.........Rank out of 32
..Traning room.........20th..
..Training staff...........24th..
..Weight room...........30th..
..Strength coaches....19th..

Since you're the expert on injuries, Mac, just curious...


Where do the Falcons rank in injuries by the metrics you used to rank the Browns so low?

You have a lot of questions with nothing that actually ties the answers you provide to those question as in any way being accurate. AKA A fishing expedition. For there to be any validity to your assertions please explain how the Browns S&C department graded out at a B+. I'll wait.

After poor NFLPA grades, Browns are building new weight room

Story by Ben Axelrod • 20h
link


The NFL Players Association released the results of its survey regarding the league’s 32 teams on Wednesday and the results weren’t too kind to the Cleveland Browns.

Altogether, the Browns ranked 23rd overall and received D+ grades or worse in multiple categories, including treatment of families (D-), locker room (D+), weight room (D) and team travel (D).

Speaking to reporters at the NFL Scouting Combine in Indianapolis, Browns head coach Kevin Stefanski addressed his team’s poor showing in the NFLPA report card. And the two-time NFL Coach of the Year noted that the team has already taken steps to improve its weight room, which ranked 30th out of 32 teams based on the survey.

“Every year you have to be open to everything information-wise to get better,” Stefanski said. “In there, talking about the weight room was one thing. I’m happy to tell you guys we’re building a new weight room. So we know that that’s an area where we want to get better. I take input from our players. I feel strongly about our leaders, our leadership committee. My office downstairs, the door’s always open. Even if it’s closed, it’s open. So I welcome input and that will never change.”

Since becoming the head coach of the Browns in 2020, Stefanski has amassed a 37-30 record in four seasons, twice leading Cleveland to the postseason. In 2023 he was named the NFL’s Coach of the Year after helping guide the Browns to an 11-6 record and Wild Card spot despite the team starting four different quarterbacks throughout the season.

The disappointing part...look at how long the Browns players have been waiting for an upgraded weight room...going on 4 yrs now.

The Big Brain Front Office and owners have been kicking that can down the road for years and the only thing that got them "TO SAY" they are finally going to get it done is when the fans and media find out the truth..that the Browns have been ignoring the team's needs going on 4 yrs now.

Want to get Haslam and his baseball boys off their ass...let the media start telling the truth about this Browns franchise operates...

Talk about embarrassing..the Browns players busted their ass to get the franchise to playoffs and yet the only way Haslam helps out and provides a facility worthy of the effort his team gave to reach the playoffs is if Haslam and his Boys are exposed to the media.

Anyone wonder if the quality of your training facility can contribute to the high injury rate the Browns have suffered over the last 3 seasons..?

It sure sounds like the players would be better off finding a quality training program and facility if they sought out their own outside establishment.

And what does that have to do with the quality of the S&C staff? You keep trying to dodge bullets. Either by deflection or by outright ignoring things. So I'll ask again, if the Browns S&C staff is so bad, please explain how the Browns S&C department graded out at a B+? Still waiting.

pit...did I focus on the individuals in the training facility..?

OR, did I refer to the TRAINING DEPARTMENT..

I have said the Browns have a problem with their injury rate and I have commented that we don't know exactly what the issue is, but that the Browns management needs correct whatever is wrong...

As for the grading scale you seem to be impressed with...How the Browns compare to the other 31 teams is what I'm concerned with. Anyone wanting to compare the Browns have a choice...compare the Browns to some fantasy grade someone made up to make many "feel good"...

OR we can compare the Browns performance to reality, comparing them to the performances of the teams they are being compared with. In the case with the NFLPA Survey, the Browns are being compared with the other 31 teams in the NFL.

What I'm looking for from the Browns is "improvement" compared to the other 31 NFL team, not someone else's grade/opinion. The goal should begin with improving within each category from the lower half of franchises to the upper half of the 31 other NFL teams.

..Category...............Rank...

..Training room.........20th.. out of the 32 teams...someone believes that grades out to a c+...the Browns didn't even rank 50% out of the 32 teams...but that's a C+

..Training staff...........24th..out of the 32 teams...just 8 places from being "the worst" in the NFL...and that earns the TS a B-..

..Weight room...........30th..out of the 32 NFL teams...just 2 places from being the worst weight room in the NFL...that is good enough for D

..Strength coaches....19th..out the 32 NFL teams...just 3 places from 50%...that should made some feel great...a B+...

If we expect the Browns to compete for a Super Bowl someday, the franchise needs to do a better job of supporting their players, providing them with the best training staff and equipment the franchise can afford...

The grade vs ranking was something I didn't get. I believe our S&C staff got a B or B+, which was good for a rank of 20th.... I don't really get that. You are so predictable that you focus on the rankings and ignore the grades. Keep grinding that axe, nobody is taking you seriously.

Food/Cafeteria was graded C+ but ranked 18
Nutritionist was also graded C+ but ranked 23rd (??)

Training Room was graded C+ but ranked 20th
Training Staff was graded B+ but ranked 24th (??)

Head Coach (who won CotY) was graded B- but ranked 28th (?!?)

During COVID, the team moved the weight room onto the indoor practice field. The room it was in was re-purposed for new equipment (I believe I read they got a cryo chamber, and other similar equipment). Now they're building out the new weight room, so the weight room grades are deserved but understandable.

Mac starts this type of thread every offseason.

Much like Grossi, he is interested in clicks, no matter how flimsy the point. This thread will keep getting bumped for months.

Yep. Eeeeeverytime there is an injury.

This is an interesting graph to study and compare link


One question I have...can the quality of the Browns training equipment/weight room be linked to the Browns high injury rate..?

Are athletes who are well trained less likely to suffer injuries..? Could the state of the Browns (temporary) training facility contribute to the Browns higher injury rate..?

One question? That looks like 3. The way you connect dots, anything is possible.

Two answers.

I don't know.
We don't know.
They don't know.
The world may never know.

But I bet you do.

To be honest: A personal DT goal of mine is to start a thread and have it go 10 pages without a rhyme or reason.

The issue is: if I had a rhyme or reason or didn’t have one… I will never reach that goal. Some of us aren’t made to play the game no matter how hard we play.

#macLyfeRules
#ReturnoftheMacBSCDpart2comingsoon
#OurinjuriesareworsethanUrs
#mySnCDcanwhipurSnCDbutt
#whyamI#tagging?

Well Mac as I pointed out several times on these boards the Browns are expanding their facilities in Berea. Sorry it's not getting done fast enough for you.

https://neo-trans.blog/2023/10/11/browns-add-more-land-to-berea-development-site/

Cleveland Browns Alerted by Low NFLPA Report Card Rankings and Alarming Facility Concerns

By BVM Sportsdesk, 20h ago
link


The Cleveland Browns received a low ranking in the NFLPA annual report cards, placing 23rd out of 32 teams overall. Players identified several key areas where the organization fell short, including treatment of family, the locker room, the training area, coaches, ownership, and food provided.

Specifically, the weight room was a major concern, ranking at No. 30. The treatment of families earned a D-, with early season issues regarding communication of injuries. The weight room was deemed below average and lacking equipment, while the training room was reported as understaffed, potentially contributing to the team's soft tissue injuries.

By the Numbers
Cleveland Browns ranked 23rd out of 32 teams in the NFLPA report cards
Weight room ranked at No. 30, ownership ranked 17th

State of Play
Browns' weight room is reported as below average, with a temporary setup taking up limited indoor practice space
Training room is understaffed, potentially contributing to soft tissue injuries

Bottom Line
The Cleveland Browns' low ranking in the NFLPA report cards highlights concerns regarding the organization's treatment of family, training facilities, and potential impact on player injuries.

Alarming issues spotlighted as Browns are slammed in NFLPA report card

The Cleveland Browns need to work on how they treat players and their families

By Randy Gurzi | Feb 28, 2024
link

The NFLPA annual report cards are in and the Cleveland Browns have some work to do. Out of 32 teams in the league, they scored 23rd overall according to players when judging several key aspects of the organization. Focusing on areas such as treatment of family, the locker room, the training area, coaches, ownership, and food provided, the Browns fell short.

Cleveland finished outside of the top half of the league in every category with their weight room coming in as their worst at No. 30. Their top area was ownership, which was ranked 17th in the NFL. Beyond that, there were a lot of concerns with the treatment of families earning a D-.

Below are the two main issues players had with the way the organization treated their family and the second one is a major red flag.

"The postgame family meet-up area is a tent in the parking lot, which is rough in the winter weather"
"Early in the season, the team was not allowing players who had been carted off the field with a significant injury to contact their wives or loved ones from the locker room to let them know how they were doing"
Thankfully, this report says this was an issue early in the season. Hopefully, this changed because it's unbelievable to think someone couldn't tell a loved one how they were doing after suffering an injury on the field.

Another major area of concern is the weight room, where the majority of the players felt the equipment was below average and didn't have enough equipment. They also report that the current weight room is a temporary one that takes up 15-20 yards of their already limited indoor practice space. Although Kevin Stefanski has recently said they're building a new one now.

The training room is also an issue with there being claims that the room is understaffed. Physical therapists and trainers seem to be limited, which could help explain why the Browns suffered so many soft tissue injuries not just in 2023, but over the past several years.

We all hope to see some of these problem areas addressed but they went from 21st in the NFL in 2023 down to 23rd this year. If there were no changes from the previous report card, there might not be much this time around either.

93 percent of the players felt like they get an individualized plan and felt that the strength coaches significantly contribute to their success.

The Browns management should build upon the positives contained in the NFLPA survey and double down, working to improve upon the negatives within the survey.

Are you kidding me? This is the first post in the thread. You called for them to be fired and listed them by name. Yes, you directly addressed the S&C staff.

Pit..The only names that franchise listed as being directly linked to the Strength and Conditioning Department...I listed them, as a source to reference. But I clearly addressed "THE PROGRAM".

I would hope that most would understand the Browns S&C program is much larger than just the names listed and as we now know, the 'decision makers' of the franchise must accept some of the responsibility for the high injury rate due to management's failure to upgrade the Browns facilities beyond "a temporary level". The Browns players have been waiting years for the upgrades that seem to get a lot of lip service but ultimately the responsibility falls back upon The Haslam Sports Group.

If you bothered to read the entire post you would see that I called for a need to learn more about the program.

I STARTED THE THREAD WITH THE FOLLOWING PARAGRAPH IN MY FIRST POST..."If ever there was an area where the ''analytics'' folks could do something to help the Browns, it is to take an ''honest'' look at the Browns approach to player health and conditioning. The Browns health and conditioning program has to be near the bottom of all 32 teams when it comes to players injured and out and on IR the Browns approach to player health and conditioning must be one of the worst of all NFL franchises."...(note: I made this comment weeks before the NFLPA survey results were known)

It seems that some would rather troll around trying to score "gotcha points" rather than add anything worthwhile to address the Browns high injury rate.

Yep, "heads need to roll as the failure of the Browns 'strength and conditioning program' is being exposed every week" isn't accusing the S&C staff directly or calling for them to be fired....... in mac's world.

Only troll here is you.

Hey Boys...tell us why the Browns failed to even sniff a Super Bowl appearance this past season..?

I thought you already told us....


It sounds as if you already said the problem is the S&C program and heads need to roll.

Bad injury luck

Bull...I'm not one to fall back on such an excuse as "just bad (injury) luck"..especially when the same issues have contributed to the Browns high rate of injuries have been a factor for several seasons. One season of bad luck injuries might be a reasonable excuse..but not if the problem persists for several seasons. There are "reasons" that are contributing to the Browns high rate of injuries and the problem continues because the franchise fails to adequately address the issues.

If it's the expertise of the training and conditioning staff...hire better people...

If it's a lack of adequate manning, hire more staff..therapists, trainers, yoga instructors...

If it's a lack of equipment...invest in the best equipment to improve the health of the team...

If it's a need for a larger facility, expand the present structure...

Kicking the can down the road hoping the high injury rate corrects itself...that is not an option.

Forward all resumes' to......

Cleveland Browns
76 Lou Groza Blvd.
Berea, OH 44017

To contact by phone; 440-824-3434

Bad things happen when large humans smash into each other repeatedly. It's the nature of the sport. Players are going to get injured unless they eliminate contact and/or go fully virtual. Joints/ligaments weren't designed to take impacts in excess of 1600 pounds of force from any and every direction.

Football Physics: The Anatomy of a Hit

93 percent of the players felt like they get an individualized plan and felt that the strength coaches significantly contribute to their success.

Yeah but what about that other seven per cent?

Which might be 4 malcontents.

j/c:

I know we can put users on ignore but can we do the same with threads?

Actually, post here again and I'll let you know. Wow this may be a game-changer.

If

If

If

If

My feeling is every player goes in to the season with a 50/50 chance of being injured or completing the season in decent shape.

In other words, nobody knows and I don't think you can change those percentages.

I think I read on the internet that the 7% were the players who earned their degrees online at Dewey Cheatum and Howe University. Berry found out he could hire them for much less and he needed to save money because of Watson's contract. There were also reports that Berry has a majority interest in D,C & H.

Well,,, that's what I heard.

There are reasons/issues that have contributed to the Browns high injury rate and the Brown have failed to adequately address those issues for years. Below is an article that points out some of the reasons/issues that have contributed to the high injury rate.

Browns notes: Need for larger field house apparent after camp gets moved indoors

By Daryl Ruiter
92.3 The Fan
August 11, 2021 5:30 pm
link

BEREA, Ohio (92.3 The Fan) – The Browns packed themselves like sardines into the Casey Coleman Field House Wednesday for practice due to inclement weather.

It wasn’t the first time, and unfortunately it won’t be the last. There are high schools in the state of Ohio with full size indoor facilities, but not the Browns.

The team’s indoor facility covers 70 yards of playing field but 20 yards of that are dedicated to the weight room because the actual weight room is still the auxiliary locker room to comply with COVID protocols.


That’s 90 players and just 50 yards of field to work with to run a 2-hour practice.

“We can get our work done in there,” head coach Kevin Stefanski said prior to practice. “It is going to be a lot of bodies. It is going to be hot and humid, but we can get our work done.”

To Stefanski’s credit, he offered no complaints about the situation and continues to make the most of less-than-ideal conditions.

“The good news is we are working red zone today and we are working goal line today so those are smaller area drills, if you will,” Stefanski said. “We have been in there before with the full team. We will space out as much as we can. The intensity ramps up when you are inside, there is shorter area and you are not running from one field to the other.”

While this is the second year the Browns have dealt with this, the current indoor facility just isn’t sufficient. What was once state of the art in the early 1990’s when it opened has now become obsolete and outgrown, even with a new field installed in 2020 along with a fresh coat of white paint.

The Haslam Sports Group, which owns and operates the Browns, has been acquiring property around the facility for future expansion and it stands to reason the field house is on their ‘to do’ list, hopefully sooner rather than later.

Nope. Doesn't work.

And that indicates heads should roll among the S&C staff how again?

WKYC article and comments concerning Browns NFLPA [color:#FF0000]survey.[/color]

Cleveland Browns score D- on 2024 NFLPA report card survey

Author: Chris Beeble
Published: 3:08 PM EST February 28, 2024
Updated: 3:08 PM EST February 28, 2024
link

The team received low marks from players in the categories of treatment of families, locker room, weight room and team travel.

CLEVELAND — The Jimmy Haslam era will reach to 12 years in October of this year.

For the better part of that first decade, the team toiled at the bottom of the NFL, all but cementing the team's spot as the league doormat and laughing stock. Since the arrival of GM Andrew Berry and HC Kevin Stefanski, the organization has made major strides in turning that perception around in a small time frame.

Fresh off of their clean sweep of 2023-24 regular season awards (head coach of the year, assistant coach of the year, defensive player of the year, comeback player of the year), today's release of the NFLPA team report cards show much is left to be done.

Players for each NFL team ranked their respective teams based on 11 categories ranging from how the team treats players' families to how they feel team ownership supports the players

Here is how the Browns scored in each category:

Treatment of families: D-
Food/Cafeteria: C+
Nutritionist/Dietician: C+
Locker room: D+
Training room: C+
Training staff: B-
Weight room: D
Strength coaches: B+
Team travel: D
Head coach: B-
Ownership: B

Here is how each category got to the grades earned above:

Treatment of families
The Browns are among 12 other teams that do not provide a family room at the stadium for the families of players, nor do they provide a daycare service.

Players listed two specific issues with how the team handled players' families on game day:

Teams required families to meet-up in an outdoor tent even during cold weather days
Early season access to family members after a player was carted to locker room with an injury was not allowed by the team

Food/Cafeteria
Based on ratings compared to all other teams, the Browns ranked 19th in both food taste and freshness.

Nutritionist/Dietician
82% of players reported feeling like they were able to get a personalized nutrition plan, which ranked 19th overall in the league.

Locker room
39% of players reported that the locker room is too small, ranking the team near the bottom of the league at 27th overall. 29% of players feel like they don't have enough room in their individual lockers, also ranking the team near the bottom at 26th overall.

Training room
The team ranked in the bottom half of the league based on player rankings of the training room in the following categories:

Number of full-time trainers
Number of full-time physical therapists
Hot tub space
Cold tub space

Training staff
Player ranked the availability of one-on-one treatment towards the bottom of the league (25th overall) while the team scored near the middle of the pack (18th overall) in terms of the players feeling that the training staff contributes to their success.

Weight room
It may be no coincidence that Kevin Stefanski announced the team's plans to build a new weight room for players in Berea after seeing the marks given to the team in this category.

Brad Stainbrook
@StainbrookNFL
·
Follow
#Browns Kevin Stefanski announces the team will build a new weight room. Since 2020 it has been inside the already small field house.

Strength coaches
A majority of players felt like they had individualized plans and that the staff contributed to their success.

Team travel
Another area of improvement needed for the Browns as only 67% of players felt like they were comfortable or had enough personal space on team flights. The Browns are also one of only seven teams to require players to have a roommate on the night before games.



 Head coach
This is the category that may leave most who observe the team from the outside looking in the most puzzled. Given the close-knit atmosphere that we observed with the team throughout their magical playoff run with QB Joe Flacco and Kevin Stefanski's Head Coach of the Year honors, one might assume he would score near the top of the list.

However only 70% of players say Stefanski is efficient with their time, which ranks 29th out of 32 head coaches. He also ranked 23rd out of 32 when it comes to the players feeling like he is willing to listen to the locker room.

Stefanski's overall ranking of B- would suggest that while there are gripes about his style as head coach from the player's perspective, none of those gripes appear to be a hinderance to his leadership or ability to lead.

Ownership
The NFLPA cites that players feel owner Jimmy Haslam is willing to invest and improve the team facilities.

To see the full report, visit the NFLPA's website HERE.

So heads should roll?

pit...I'm not responsible for the survey results..nor am I responsible for the opinions expressed by those who took the survey...the Browns players.

You want to complain about the comments and concerns attributed to the Browns players, have at it..!

I do find it interesting that those most knowledgeable about the Browns Strength and Training Program seem to have some of the same concerns that I have with the program. It is an area that the franchise must improve upon if they ever hope to win a Super Bowl, imo.

No, no they don't have the same concerns. Your statement from the start is that "heads should roll" as it pertained to those employed by the S&C department. None of the "concerns" you have listed say anything remotely close o that. As has been pointed out to you, which you have avoided like the plague, is that "93 percent of the players felt like they get an individualized plan and felt that the strength coaches significantly contribute to their success." Your attempted redirection to try and avoid what your assertions were from the very beginning aren't working.

it says in the article:


I am not sure what else you want them to do. They see the needs and are taking steps to deal with the need.

Do you want the Haslams to ask the county to step in and see if they can somehow invoke eminent domain laws in some way and take homes and other business property? I doubt they could. It usually has to involve using the land for the publics benefit, such as some road project that is needed or building park space. I don't think building a new field house would pass the criteria.

If the people in the homes adjacent to the complex don't want to sell, or are holding out for $2,000, 000, it isn't going to happen. The homes around there are nice enough, but they aren't super deluxe by any means. It looks to me like 2 homes are holding out when looking at google maps. Maybe you should go knock on their doors and tell them they are screwing things up and they need to sell at fair market price.

All of this adds to the push by the Haslams to find a place for a new browns stadium complex.

OH THE HORROR It's a wonder we ever signed a free agent. I can't believe all players have not refused to ever be traded to Cleveland. I can't believe our draft picks didn't ignore us and sign with the CFL.

BTW how is your works daycare, and Family room at work working out for you?


HOW DARE THEY You should march right into Berea and demand that each and every member of the Cleveland Browns organization have thier own wife/mother hired as their own person cook. I hear that one player even got three grains of salt to many of his mashed potatoes and another player was shorted one flake of pepper in his.


Now carry on with your poo flinging against the wall in hopes that one day one piece of it sticks.

 


peen...the need has been a need, for years, since 2021 according to the date of the article below (August 11, 2021). Not many articles have been written that address the lack of adequate space at the Browns training campus but it sure helps to get the input of the players via the NFLPA survey. As long as no one brings the subject up that might contribute to the lack of urgency to find a solution.


Browns notes: Need for larger field house apparent after camp gets moved indoors
link


If the issue comes down to 2 or 3 homeowners holding out, Haslam either has to pay them or come up with different solution.


There's a wooded area to the east behind a trucking business that might be an option. Looking at a google map..

link

the obvious solution appears to be to extend the field house to the North, which could add 50 yds of indoor playing surface and move the parking lot to the wooded area to the east.

 

I thought you said the obvious answer was that "heads should roll" in the strength and conditioning department?

GM...treatment of families and the quality of the food...if that's what trips your trigger, have at it...

pit..


Why Better Conditioned Athletes Have Fewer Injuries.. link

So is that an indication that even after 93% of players endorsed what the S&C staff were doing that heads should still roll? It seems as though the actual players who endorse the staff don't share your concerns about them.

pit..use whatever grading scale or method that makes you "feel good".

As of today...the grading scale that I'm the most concerned about is number of players who will be available when training camp starts..

The Browns training staff has a lot of work to do this off season.


Cleveland
PLAYER POSITION UPDATED INJURY INJURY STATUS
Grant Delpit SAF Tue, Mar 5 Groin Questionable for the start of training camp
Jacob Phillips LB Tue, Mar 5 Pectoral Questionable for the start of training camp
Dawson Deaton C Tue, Mar 5 Knee - ACL Questionable for the start of training camp
Pierre Strong Jr. RB Tue, Mar 5 Back Questionable for the start of training camp
Cedric Tillman WR Tue, Mar 5 Concussion Questionable for the start of training camp
Dorian Thompson-Robinson QB Tue, Mar 5 Hip Questionable for the start of training camp
Drew Forbes OT Tue, Mar 5 Back Questionable for the start of training camp
Anthony Walker MLB Tue, Mar 5 Knee Questionable for the start of training camp
Maurice Hurst DT Tue, Mar 5 Pectoral Questionable for the start of training camp
Joel Bitonio OG Tue, Mar 5 Ankle Questionable for the start of training camp
Dustin Hopkins K Tue, Mar 5 Hamstring Questionable for the start of training camp
Dawand Jones OT Mon, Feb 12 Knee - MCL Questionable for the start of training camp
Michael Woods II WR Mon, Feb 12 Achilles Questionable for the start of training camp
Deshaun Watson QB Mon, Feb 12 Shoulder Questionable for the start of training camp
Nick Chubb RB Mon, Feb 12 Knee - ACL + MCL Questionable for the start of training camp
Jack Conklin OT Mon, Feb 12 Knee - ACL + MCL Questionable for the start of training camp
Rodney McLeod FS Mon, Feb 12 Biceps Questionable for the start of training camp
Jakeem Grant WR Mon, Feb 12 Kneecap Questionable for the start of training camp
Jedrick Wills OT Mon, Feb 12 Knee - MCL Questionable for the start of training camp
Kareem Hunt RB Wed, Jan 31 Groin Questionable for the start of training camp
link

Please try to address the question rather than deflecting. Do you still think "heads should roll" in the scouting department or not? While I'm not asking you to answer that question with a simple yes or no, an actual answer to that question would be nice. Because you started out with that and it has now evolved into everything but that. The only metric I have used is the players approval of how the S&C staff has done. I'm not throwing everything else and the kitchen sink into it. So simple question. Should heads roll in the S&D department or not?

I looked at that land as well. It appears to be a drainage spot. Part shows as a pond. Seeing as that land isn't being used now, it probably is in a flood plain of some sort and isn't zoned for building. If it is built up for construct, you flood someone else. You can't build up a property you might want at the expense of flooding someone else.

Water has to have a place to drain and flow. Water finds it's place. It looks like it has, so you have to leave that alone. Water flow isn't just creeks and rivers.

How do you know if the players were or were not better conditioned?

Concerning the wooded area to the east of the the current parking lot (north of the field house)...

...I see no evidence of a pond in this area and if the area is low, the solution is to install a "tile system" to drain any excess water into the cities drainage system. Proper drainage is part of the expected expansion project that will be required regardless of where the Haslam Group chooses to expand.

...Haslam Group would need an area comparable to the size to the current parking lot to the north of the field house. Keep in mind, we are talking about building a new parking lot..not constructing homes.

... tHG would need to seek the approval of local authorities regardless of where they choose to expand their current property...N,S,E or West.

The Haslam Group needs to make some decisions and invest in the needed upgrades, asap! The players have waited for 4yrs for the Browns brain-trust to solve the issue and upgrade their current facilities...it is time!

scott...I suggest you do a search...type in "Do Better Conditioned Athletes Have Fewer Injuries".

I've related my own experiences and how I devised my own off season workout to avoid injuries..worked for me.

I've given examples of some of the NFLs greatest football players and how they devised their own workout routines so they could stay injury free.

Might be time to read some of the available material to learn as much as you can on the subject.

I do know this...if the Browns players continue to be injured at the current rate, the chances of the Browns winning a Super Bowl will remain nothing but a dream.

Pit..I believe you are confused...

You have never answered this question and you refused to answer it again this time. I think you may have a great future as an escape artist.

It goes to show just how stupid the article is you posted. No need to waste time on it. It reminds me of the surveys Gm and ford use to send out on new car sales. Every single car gets a full take of gad and somebody from the dealership calls every customer after they bought the car to make sure everything was ok
They don't ask those questions any more. Do you know why??? I will make it easy for you. Less than 70 percent of people surveyed said they got a full tank, or that anybody had contacted them. When the fact is 100 percent of peeple got a full tank, and were contacted by the dealership.

Now that we wasted everybody time. Lets get back to pure football.

So just what does a family room have to do with the Browns strength and conditioning. Department

It's a prime opportunity to troll, and a poster is making the most of said opportunity.

Let me spear you in the knee, and let's see how that goes. Maybe toss a 300 pound lineman at you while you're looking the other direction.

How has your conditioning held up to those things? I'm guessing that it hasn't had to.

Ok, will there be an exam afterwards? I failed the surprise Mac test last time and my parents grounded me for a week.

YES THERE WILL BE A TEST! How else will DT know if you are learning anything? Smh, these lax standards around here are getting pretty damn old.

So are the fallacies you keep creating. That and you're so unqualified to be giving lectures on S&C. So should heads in the S&C staff roll? It appears you've been given a very effective vaccine that keeps you protected from addressing that question.

Bull...your opinion seems to be that the Browns just have BAD LUCK when it come to injuries...you absolutely have a right to your opinion.

But, I've never been one to rely on excuses for poor performances. There are factors and reasons that contribute to results and if we want to solve a problem or improve a situation we have to attempt to figure out WHY the current results are poor.

I played against the best competition from the area and it did include 300 pounders. Playing strong side outside LB at a time when it was legal to cut block and roll block and double team high/low...the rules were lax and anyone playing OLB was at risk of for a knee injury.

The level of competition is in no way comparable to the NFL but when I look at the records established by some of the greatest to ever play in the NFL and I read their accounts of how they stayed healthy during their careers...I can relate, noting my own personal experiences.

I view the Browns injury situation as the #1 obstacle standing in the way of a Browns Super Bowl victory. We have the talent..we have the coaching..it's time that weaknesses with in the support structure be addressed if the franchise goal is to produce a Super Bowl winner !

jmo..mac

How was Nick Chubb having his knee exploded "poor performance?"

He's probably the best conditioned athlete we've had since the return. "Perfect" conditioning won't save you from some things.

Injuries are the biggest obstacle for every team in the NFL. Generally, the healthiest teams are the ones that are winning at the end of the season. Unfortunately, there is no magic recipe for staying healthy. You can do everything right in preparation and still get wrecked by a bad confluence of uncontrollable events.

... edited to remove the long quote
He won't answer you. He's a clown. If more people put him on ignore, pointless threads like these wouldn't last in PF.


He's done this at least twice in this thread alone. How anyone can still stand to read any of his posts at this point is beyond me.

Yeah but he played football which makes him a S&C expert. Haven't you been paying attention? I mean not at the pro level and not in decades which was before they had sports science in football or anything, but still.


Josh Christovich

Assistant Strength and Conditioning/Sports Science

College: James Madison

Hometown: Woodbridge, Virginia

Please, for the love of dog, lock up this stupid thread. I think I lost 10 points off my IQ just opening this thread.

bull...have I ever said the goal for the Browns should be or must be NO INJURIES..?

I've stressed that the Browns goal should be to improve upon their current high rate injury status so don't try to start down a road that is not part of this discussion. There will always be injuries but that does not mean Haslam and his boys should continue to kick the can down the road and not emphasize the need to improve their injury record.

I DO THANK YOU FOR ADMITTING that the healthiest teams seem to the teams that are winning at the end of the season...in other words, teams that do a better job of
fielding a healthy team seem to win more more Championships. I believe I read somewhere that 5 out of the last 6 Super Bowl winners were teams with fewer injuries.

This is why the Browns injury record is such a big deal...especially for those of us that would like to see the Browns win a Super Bowl in our lifetime. Those who don't give a damn about winning will ignore the fact that a team's injury rate can have a direct impact on a teams ability to win.

Obviously, DTers are making some progress concerning the subject of the Browns injury situation.

From the very start you said "heads should roll." And you have not progressed in addressing that since then.

300 pounders in the 80s were rare. If you played before that, it would've been even more rare. That's part of reason William Perry was popular. It's been a long time since I've seen a video on the Fridge, but I remember him being hard to bring down, but really slow. Nowadays, 300 pounders are everywhere and it is normal to see them being super athletic and running sub 5 40s.

These collisions today are like two super cars going full speed at each other. Injuries will happen more frequently, especially leg injuries considering the rules are in place to penalize hitting higher.

Nick Chubb, David Njkou, Miles Garrett just to name three players with the bodies of a Geek god and in peak condition. All were injured/battled injuries.

Are you Izzy Mandelbaum?

You think you're better than me? It's go time!

Let’s get this thread to 10 pages, refs will lock it, and we collectively agree to ignore Mac’s next strength and conditioning thread.

Lots of free posts here, people!

We're trying. Doesn't hurt to add a little humor.

We were close, Pit and I had our posts deleted for spamming. 🤣

I've had a couple, so it's late for all of you (considering most of you are 5 hours ahead of me, reminder daylight savings this weekend...so soon to be 6 hours ahead). So my post will be worthless soon and good for us all.

Mac should've went with the old school "injuries happen when you don't go full speed". This way he would've added the Stef/Berry haters to his side. Stef not pushing his team and etc.

Anyways, what makes this thread obsolete for the many reasons you all posted b/c of conditioning is our team closed most games. If you look at our team this past year there were very few games where our team looked gassed in the 4th quarter. Heck, all of us saw how our team willed some victories by pushing the pile in the 4th quarter. That is a testament to conditioning.

It's the offseason for players, they relax, they train wherever they want. They have money, they know what they need to do to be successful. They can go to whatever training complex they choose to get the best offseason training required. Their personalized trainers can focus on whatever they deem is important to better themselves. This isn't a "woe is me", they know what is needed to be season ready and get that next contract.

As for the humor side as lamp and jfanent suggested, YouTube Bill Burr crazy guy at target. This is why I am a smart-a on some subjects. "now there's two of them". Opinions are great when they aren't absurd. If they are absurd, expect some pushback.

Mahalo, now on to the locked thread!

You should drink and post more. Not as much as Lamp, but more.

A very good point about conditioning and it's actual bearing on gameday.

I've had the same thoughts on players as well. These are pros with millions of dollars but some act like their held captive in a boys home, heed to their captor's every order, and someone's walking around smacking them with a stick and yelling "AGAIN!!" everytime a rep isn't perfect. I guarantee there have been players that have pulled a hammy and known they were half-assing during warm-ups. At the beginning and end of the day -- it's all on them.


Nine pages in -- pretty much the only thing I've learned as a fact came from prp... if you stretch too much, you actually lose some of your 'twitch'.

Adjusted Games Lost...click the link to see the graph showing the teams with the most Adjusted Games Lost

Browns near bottom, but not last, in games lost due to injury

Injuries decimated Cleveland but not as much as it did the Texans

By Jared Mueller@JaredKMueller Mar 6, 2024,
link

The story of the Cleveland Browns 2023 season will be written with injuries as the headline, subheadline and final point. Seemingly every week, the Browns dealt with some starter, mostly on the offensive side of the ball, going down for the year. Starting with OT Jack Conklin and RB Nick Chubb in the first two weeks, Cleveland seemed cursed.

Despite that curse, the Browns made the playoffs with QB Joe Flacco and their fourth and fifth offensive tackles on the field.

Injuries weren’t limited to the offensive side of the ball as later in the season veteran safety Rodney McLeod, LB Anthony Walker Jr. and DT Maurice Hurst were lost. DE Ogbo Okoronkwo was severely limited but returned to the field.

Interestingly, Cleveland’s playoff opponent, the Houston Texans, actually had the most games lost due to injury. The Adjusted Games Lost data takes a number of variables into account:

Adjusted games lost doesn’t just add up total injuries. It accounts for both absent players and those playing at less than 100%, and it specifically measures injuries to expected starters and important situational players rather than little-used backups. As such, AGL estimates the impact of injuries on teams and provides a comparable total that often succinctly explains why teams improved or declined from one year to the next.

Here is a look at the top 10 (read most games lost) in 2023 with the Browns ranked as having the fourth most lost:


It is interesting to note that four of the most injured teams still made the playoffs while a few of the worst teams last year also appear on the list.

Obviously, the data doesn’t take into account the talent of the player missing. Chubb, Conklin, Jedrick Wills, Dawand Jones and Deshaun Watson off the offense is a hugely talented group.

I asked before and you didn't answer. I did my own digging and found that the very first site you mentioned is defunct, gonzo, 404. Now this latest chart you posted doesn't show the whole league.

I'd really like to know where Atlanta falls on this list since they were graded F-. I think that may go along way toward showing us how reactionary we are towards injuries.

fate...you do realize that you are talking to "yourself"...

That's because I quoted myself to bring my original post back up. Don't bother responding, I just found the answer.

There was a link on the page you posted to the original table. I assume we can drop any correlation between player grades and S&C facilities after this.

Whenever my radar goes off, it's usually for a reason.

Atlanta #1 in Offense / #14 in Defense... #5 overall... Yet rated F-






https://www.ftnfantasy.com/articles/FTN/116705/texans-lead-2023-agl-numbers-with-ol-injury-record

And on page 12 the only one you seem to be able to convince is yourself.

Fate...the article I posted was written on Wednesday, March 6, 2024..written by Dawgs By Nature's Producer, Jared Mueller.

If you have any concerns about the information contained in his article, there is a link so you can discuss your issues directly with him.

Concerning your complaint about the graph Mueller used in his article, if you would bother to read the article again, you will see that Mueller addressed that issue within his article. He only intended to show the part of the graph that included the Browns...thus he showed the 10 teams that ranked from 23 to 32 and showed the Browns ranking 29th.

...after all, Mueller's article is about the Browns 2023 injury issues.

Hope this helps you to understand the article.

What??

I don't need any 'help' understanding the article. And I'm not going to write a strongly worded letter to DBN.

I've already made a post with the whole table, did you miss that while crafting this latest masterpiece? Pay attention.

I found that really interesting too. Never realized that flexibility and explosiveness is a give/take relationship that you have to balance (not me and you, moreso pro athletes... and mac).

And nothing in that article indicated that "heads should roll" in the S&C department. Maybe you should take a course in sports science to understand what's really going on and how things have changed since the 80's.

pit...Understand this..we live in a society that is based on performance, competition and results..especially in the area of sports.

...Players are judged according to their performance within their sport and how their performance compares to their competition for the same position.

...Coaches are judged based on their performances and the results their team produces.

...Everyone hired within a football franchise has a role to play and each is responsible for producing satisfactory results established by their franchise's owner. Let one area fail to perform at a satisfactory level and it can affect the goals of the entire franchise.

Let Stefanski's team produce an 0-8 record to start the 2024 season and I have no doubt in my mind that Haslam could fire him mid-season.
Everyone hired by Jimmy must meet his standards if they want to remain employed with the Browns. All should be judged based on their job performance as well as the results they produce. Failure to produce the expected results can result in termination.

...pit, that's just the way it is in America...every job I've had in my lifetime...I was judged on the results I produced.

If you want to live in a society that "rewards failure", you might have a tough time adjusting to American standards, as well as the standards the NFL uses to judge "their best". Being the best in the NFL is clearly defined.

IMO, the Browns extreme injury rate might be the determining factor standing in the way of the Browns stated goal of winning the Lombardi Trophy.

According to team captain Myles Garrett, the Browns had a talented enough roster to compete in the Super Bowl in 2024.

The Browns had the coaching talent to compete at a playoff level and possibly at a Super Bowl level.

But surely everyone can understand if that talent is standing on the sidelines unable play due to injuries, it won't matter how talented the Browns are, they will not win a Lombardi Trophy.

Through research we learn more about some of the issues that might be affecting the conditioning, training and strength programs. Through research, it becomes obvious that the issues can be linked all the way to the top...including the performance of the Haslam Group.

The Haslam Group is responsible for providing their employees with the necessary equipment and facilities needed to produce the best trained and conditioned Browns players. Also, these folks at the top, the Haslam Group, they need to conduct their business in a timely manner. The Browns players have been forced to use a  CRAMPED, TEMPORARY weight room since July 2020 and only after the results of the NFLPA survey became public, have we seen the franchise react and finally address the core issues contributing to the Browns high injury trend. There must be a since of urgency to address these issues.

If public exposure is what it takes to push the Haslam Group to finally get serious about the issues contributing to the Browns high injury situation, so be it..!

We might need more articles or progress reports written about how the franchise is progressing on the issues related to the Browns' injuries situation.

I'm not about to stop discussing the Browns #1 obstacle standing in the way of a Super Bowl victory. 

In 2023/24, the Browns had the talent, they had the coaching and they had the desire to compete for a Lombardi Trophy...

...but a good portion of our talent was on the sidelines watching, on IR.

The Browns are getting closer to achieving their goal...the entire franchise just needs to work harder and smarter to achieve their goal.

jmo...mac

So is it the facilities that are the problem or the S&C staff that's the problem? I'm waiting for you to make up your mind. Did you ever take that sports science class so you actually have a clue what's going on with S&C in the 21 century? I didn't think so.

Well thats a bold face lie Mac. The weight room was moved due to covid (not the Browns choice) The facility in Berea covers 18 acres, 15 other acres have been purchased and 7 more acres are either now owned by the Browns or will be soon. Plans have been in the works since 2019 to expand the facility which will include a new weight room. So you just keep making up your fairy tales Sir.

You have yet to establish ANY link whatsoever between ANY of the injuries that affected this roster and their training.
You have yet to cite even a single shred of evidence that even remotely correlates the injury being due to poor/improper conditioning or training.

You Have Nothing.

GM...you would have to click and read some of those articles I post along with my own comments. One of the most recent articles pointed out the reason why the weight room had to be moved..such as this, from an article I linked to on the previous page and dating back to 7/2020. Below, some of the information I provided to establish a complete understanding of the situation...but the reader must have the ability to click and read..!

Quote

The team’s indoor facility covers 70 yards of playing field but 20 yards of that are dedicated to the weight room because the actual weight room is still the auxiliary locker room to comply with COVID protocols.

Quote

While this is the second year the Browns have dealt with this, the current indoor facility just isn’t sufficient. What was once state of the art in the early 1990’s when it opened has now become obsolete and outgrown, even with a new field installed in 2020 along with a fresh coat of white paint.

The Haslam Sports Group, which owns and operates the Browns, has been acquiring property around the facility for future expansion and it stands to reason the field house is on their ‘to do’ list, hopefully sooner rather than later.

The Haslam Group began work on a new weight room proposal dating back to July, 2020...4 years ago. Now and only after the 2024 NFLPA survey was made public did we witness a 'sense of urgency' to complete what the Haslam Group started in 2020.

I will say this, those who are unable to debate an issue and resort to calling some a liar...it is a direct reflection upon "you and your character".

Maybe it's the fact he knows a lot of what's going on within the Browns organization while you don't. If you haven't paying attention over the years of course you wouldn't know that. I'll ho with what PPE said....

Just bad luck, right Perp..?

I know for a fact that conditioning is linked to a players health and their ability to perform on a football field.

IMO, prp..you are ignoring "your own personal goals and pursuits ". Prp...do you perform better when you put in the time and effort, training and conditioning to be the best that you can be, in your own sport..?

Or, do you just rely on LUCK, hoping you will accomplish your goals. Turning in your best performance, regardless of the sport you are participating in, is reliant upon the effort you are willing invest to be the best you can be.

I believe "BAD LUCK"..it's just an "easy excuse" for those who are are not willing to face reality and the truth as it relates to one of the main reason the Browns can't achieve their goal.

Discussing the injury trends the Browns are facing...I'm not expecting or insisting on "perfection or zero injuries". I'm hoping for improvement..!

If our players are standing on the sidelines, watching during the team's most important game of the year...there are REASONS contributing to the Brown excessive injury situation...and any claim that it's just BAD LUCK is nothing more than an "poor excuse".

Oh dear Lord. Still nothing.