Your (and My) Mock Drafts - DawgTalkers.net

Mays physical abilities can make him a force of nature. No one can disagree with that. However I just don't think he has the brains or the cover skills to maximize his abilities.

I'd say his physical abilities are overrated.

Quote:

Sometimes there is more to football then just measurables...if not, then the Raiders would be playing in the Superbowl every year

This is one of the best statements I've seen on this board in a long time.

Quote:

Updated 2/1/10

Round 1

1. St. Louis Rams: Ndamukong Suh, DT, Nebraska
2. Detroit Lions: Gerald McCoy, DT, Oklahoma
3. Tampa Bay Buccaneers: Joe Haden, CB, Florida
4. Washington Redskins: C.J. Spiller, RB, Clemson
5. Kansas City Chiefs: Anthony Davis, T, Rutgers
6. Seattle Seahawks: Sam Bradford, QB, Oklahoma
7. Cleveland Browns: Eric Berry, S, Tennessee
8. Oakland Raiders: Carlos Dunlap, DE, Florida
9. Buffalo Bills: Jimmy Clausen, QB, Notre Dame
10. Jacksonville Jaguars: Derrick Morgan, DE, Georgia Tech
11. Denver Broncos (from CHI): Rolando McClain, LB, Alabama
12. Miami Dolphins: Dez Bryant, WR, Oklahoma State
13. San Francisco 49ers: Bruce Campbell, T, Maryland
14. Seattle Seahawks (from DEN): Brandon Graham, DE, Michigan
15. New York Giants: Earl Thomas, S, Texas
16. Tennessee Titans: Russell Okung, T, Oklahoma State
17. San Francisco 49ers (from CAR): Mike Iupati, G, Idaho
18. Pittsburgh Steelers: Kyle Wilson, CB, Boise State
19. Atlanta Falcons: Jason Pierre-Paul, DE, South Florida
20. Houston Texans: Jared Odrick, DL, Penn State
21. Cincinnati Bengals: Jermaine Gresham, TE, Oklahoma
22. New England Patriots: Sergio Kindle, LB, Texas
23. Green Bay Packers: Trent Williams, T, Oklahoma
24. Philadelphia Eagles: Bryan Bulaga, T, Iowa
25. Baltimore Ravens: Arrelious Benn, WR, Illinois
26. Arizona Cardinals: Brandon Spikes, LB, Florida
27. Dallas Cowboys: Nate Allen, S, South Florida
28. San Diego Chargers: Jonathan Dwyer, RB, Georgia Tech
29. New York Jets: Arthur Jones, DT, Syracuse
30. Minnesota Vikings: Tony Pike, QB, Cincinnati
31. New Orleans Saints: Ricky Sapp, LB, Clemson
32. Indianapolis Colts: Brian Price, DT, UCLA

2nd round

33. St. Louis Rams: Demaryius Thomas, WR, Georgia Tech
34. Detroit Lions: Perrish Cox, CB/RS, Oklahoma State
35. Tampa Bay Buccaneers: Dan Williams, DT, Tennessee
36. Washington Redskins: Charles Brown, T, USC
37. Kansas City Chiefs: Taylor Mays, S, USC
38. Seattle Seahawks: Maurkice Pouncey, C, Florida
39. Cleveland Browns: Everson Griffen, DE, USC

A few notes:

--I think CJ Spiller’s speed will get him in the top 5. Nobody wants to miss the next Chris Johnson, potentially.

--I can see Sam Bradford dropping way down if the Seahawks don’t take him at either 6 or 14. The personnel people I talked with in Mobile are extremely concerned about the structural stability of his shoulder

--Keeping with that injury risk theme, I factored health flags in this version more harshly than normal. Many players that you expect to see higher up, or missing altogether, are slotted lower for injury reasons.

--As always, please do not mistake this for what I would do with the picks. This is my best guesstimate as to what the given teams would do in the given situations. It may or may not be the same decision I would make. I do a 7-round “What I would do” mock on the message board here at RealGM the week after the Combine, if you must see into my head...

web page

Can read the entrie 4 round mock draft on the link above. I have no issues with Berry falling to us.

I would much rather take Golden Tate, Brandon La Fell, Cody or J. Best over Giffien from USC. Granted I dont know much about him but I have watched USC play a ton this seaons and he never stood out to me.

Quote:

30. Minnesota Vikings: Tony Pike, QB, Cincinnati

Let's ignore the fact they have 4 QBs on their roster including two young guys (if they still have JDBooty)

But why would you take a QB everyone has in around the 3rd or 4th round, in the first?

Especially one with only one year as a starter, didn't play the whole year, and probably has to learn to get under the snap.

I agree.

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2010/02/cleveland_browns_tom_heckert_i.html

Cleveland Browns Tom Heckert impressed by Florida's Tim Tebow
By Mary Kay Cabot
February 03, 2010, 8:51PM
Gus Chan / The Plain DealerBrowns' new general manager Tom Heckert was impressed with Florida's Tim Tebow at the Senior Bowl.CLEVELAND, Ohio -- Browns General Manager Tom Heckert just returned from the Senior Bowl in Mobile, Ala. and had good things to say about Florida quarterback Tim Tebow, who was criticized sharply by experts such as ESPN's Todd McShay.

"I think (Tebow) knew (he'd take heat) there and he went way up in my book for doing that, because originally there was talk that he wasn't going to go,'' said Heckert at the Greater Cleveland Sports Awards, where he was a presenter. "I think it's great that he went. He's a competitor and he wants to show what he can do. I thought it was great that he showed up, I really did. Because he knew what was going to happen."

Heckert disagrees with the critics who say Tebow can't play quarterback in the NFL, that he'd have to try another position such as tight end.

"I think he's going to be a quarterback first of all,'' said Heckert. "Now, where he goes, and how well he plays, that's the question. Everything besides actually playing the position, he's got it all. He's everything you want, the greatest kid in the world. People can knock him all they want, but he won a ton of games. And they didn't just run the ball. He threw the ball and threw the ball well. It's tough to knock a kid like that, but to say he's going to be a franchise quarterback, that's going to be a big decision for whoever takes him.''

He said Tebow's intangibles can make up for a lot of his shortcomings.

"You've seen guys with maybe not the strongest arm or a different delivery, they've won games,'' Heckert said. "It's really hard to overlook the other stuff. I think somebody's going to get a good player. How high he goes and what he does in the long term, who knows?''

He also said he thinks Tebow's mechanical flaws can be corrected.

"I'm sure they're going to get with an ex-quarterback coach or somebody like that,'' he said. "Maybe they already have. He can't completely change his whole thing because that's tough to do. He does have a little longer delivery, but he can shorten that up a little bit. But he's not going to change a whole lot of what he does, because he won a lot of games doing what he's doing.''

Heckert addressed a number of other issues:

• On suspended receiver Donte Stallworth, who's eligible for re-instatement on Monday: "We really haven't (made a decision). It's something (Browns owner Randy Lerner) is probably going to be involved in as well. We'll have to discuss it as an organization.

• On linebacker D'Qwell Jackson, who's recovering from surgery to repair a torn pectoral muscle. Jackson will be a restricted free agent in what figures to be an uncapped 2010 season: "We have not started (negotiations). Obviously we like him and we think he's a good player. We'll just have to see how it goes.''

• On the roster: "We have probably more talent than I originally thought as an outsider looking in. Plus you throw in the draft picks and we have some money to do something in free agency if there's somebody available, so I think we have a chance to be a better football team.

• On Harrison, who would also be restricted with no cap: "It's a projection. He did a heck of a job at the end of the season, but whether a guy like Jerome can carry the ball that much throughout the whole season, that's a little difficult to say. But at least he proved that he can play in the league. It was unknown until this year, so I think he did himself a favor and we think he's a good player.'

• On the quarterbacks: "It's probably a little too early to say on (Brady Quinn and Derek Anderson). It's a difficult decision and we have to get together and we have not made any decisions on anybody. That's going to be something that's going to happen down the road. They both have talent, there's no doubt about it. They both played well at times and we'll have to wait and see what happens.

-- My .02: I'd love to see Tebow here. Will he be a great pro? I don't know, but I'd love the national attention and built in fan base Tebow would bring to the Browns. It would be cool.
The way I see it, if the whole draft is a risk, then why not take a risk on a player that was one of the greatest college qb's of all time.
It would be cool to have him here.

I'm going to start making my noose now...

Quote:

I'm going to start making my noose now...

Much GM blabber meaning nothing. Uh, they have a fine team and play good defense, that XYZ guy is a good QB.. He has good football skills.. They are well coached.. we need to sit down and make a decision as a organization...

Was he channeling Lou Holtz?

"Yawn"

I had a horrible nightmare that the Browns drafted Tebow with the 7th pick

Quote:

I had a horrible nightmare that the Browns drafted Tebow with the 7th pick

That won't happen. - Maybe take him with our first pick in the third round though.

I wouldn't even mind him in the 3rd.

Quote:

I wouldn't even mind him in the 3rd.

This is the thing I don't get about QBs and the draft. Either you think a guy can start at quarterback or he can't. A 3rd-round pick is a starting guard or RT... A nice LB prospect. Maybe even a starting safety or running back. I just don't understand how QBs have a 3rd-round "value" but not first or second-round value. To me, any player you draft in the first three rounds has to have starter ability, especially if you're a losing team. The value of a backup is never as high as the value of a starter.

Can someone please offer a differing opinion?

High bust factor, limited passing potential and long development time are why Tebow is only a 3rd rounder.

Quote:

High bust factor, limited passing potential and long development time are why Tebow is only a 3rd rounder.

That's what I mean... why spend a 3rd-round pick on a guy who is likely to bust and best-case scenario is a 3-year project when it could be a starter at another position?

I thought Spiller going that high was a bit of a suprise. I think that could really shake up some draft boards if that happens. I wouldn't mind it as it gives a better chance to get the player we want.

Quote:

That's what I mean... why spend a 3rd-round pick on a guy who is likely to bust and best-case scenario is a 3-year project when it could be a starter at another position?

Because the QB is the most important position on the field, and someone like Tebow might have a potential that is very high.

Every player has a risk of bust. Sam Bradford has a shoulder issue which leads to durability concerns, Jimmy Clausen has character issues (I just think he reminds me of a real jerk) and played for Notre Dame (the same school that gave Quinn a high completion percentage).

Tony Pike has issues so does Jevan Sneed, so does everyone, QB or WR or any position. No one is a guarenteed "Hit" and no one is a guarenteed superstar. So it's a matter of value between how much of a sure thing as well as how good can they possibly get.

If Tebow turns into the next Steve McNair or something, drafting him in the 3rd round would be great. Not every QB looks like a protypical starting NFL QB right away. And sometimes people can suprise us. I didn't think Joe Flacco was going to be able to start right away, but he did and was better than anyone else on that team.

And where do you get this three-year project from. May be it's one year before he's ready to start, may be he can start toward the end of the year this year. We don't really know. May be he'll have a great offseason this year and makes some of the necessary changes to his game. And then slowly, throughout his career, he becomes a better passer and less of a runner (like McNabb and Steve McNair did).

So how about that Everson Griffen, DE, from USC, anyone got any insight/info on him?

Round 1

1. St. Louis Rams: Ndamukong Suh, DT, Nebraska

2. Detroit Lions: Eric Berry, S, Tennessee

3. Tampa Bay Buccaneers: Russell Okung, T, Oklahoma State

4. Washington Redskins: Jimmy Clausen, QB, Notre Dame

5. Kansas City Chiefs: Joe Haden, CB, Florida

6. Seattle Seahawks: Carlos Dunlap, DE, Florida

7. Cleveland Browns: Sam Bradford, QB, Oklahoma

8. Oakland Raiders: Gerald McCoy, DT, Oklahoma

9. Buffalo Bills: Anthony Davis, T, Rutgers

10. Jacksonville Jaguars: Derrick Morgan, DE, Georgia Tech

11. Denver Broncos (from CHI): Rolando McClain, LB, Alabama

12. Miami Dolphins: Dez Bryant, WR, Oklahoma State

13. San Francisco 49ers: Brandon Graham, DE, Michigan

14. Seattle Seahawks (from DEN): Jonathan Dwyer, RB, Georgia Tech

15. New York Giants: Mike Iupati, G, Idaho

16. Tennessee Titans: Bruce Campbell, T, Maryland

17. San Francisco 49ers (from
CAR): Jason Pierre-Paul, DE, South Florida

18. Pittsburgh Steelers: Kyle Wilson, CB, Boise State

19. Atlanta Falcons: Jared Odrick, DL, Penn State

20. Houston Texans: Arrelious Benn, WR, Illinois

21. Cincinnati Bengals: Jermaine Gresham, TE, Oklahoma

22. New England Patriots: Brandon Spikes, LB, Florida

23. Green Bay Packers: Trent Williams, T, Oklahoma

24. Philadelphia Eagles: Taylor Mays, S, USC

25. Baltimore Ravens: Demaryius Thomas, WR, Georgia Tech

26. Arizona Cardinals: Sergio Kindle, LB, Texas

27. Dallas Cowboys: Bryan Bulaga, T, Iowa

28. San Diego Chargers: C.J. Spiller, RB, Clemson

29. New York Jets: Arthur Jones, DT, Syracuse

30. Minnesota Vikings: Brian Price, DT, UCLA

31. New Orleans Saints: Perrish Cox, CB, Oklahoma State

32. Indianapolis Colts: Earl Thomas, S, Texas

Notes:
Eric Berry is the second best talent in the draft, I think Detroit realises that, Swartz gives his Defense an identity

Mike Shannahan likes young guns with attitude (Cutler). Clausen fits that mold, and may even get the benefit of sitting for a year with Cambell still there.

The Chiefs need help on defense, but have spent so much on drafting upfront already, they grab up the best corner in the draft.

I don't think our QB is on this roster, if Bradfords shoulder checks out, and he falls to us, Holmgren will grab him up, and with our running game, he can possibly have Sanchez-like "success".

If Seattles smart, they'll realise they already have a speed back in forsett, and take Dwyer to complement him, this causes Spiller to drop and replace LT in San Diego, unless someone trades up for him.

Safeties Mays and Thomas, Philly really missed the attitude that was Dawkins, Mays gives them the physical presence they need, and Thomas is almost a clone of Bob Sanders.

I dont think our QB is on our roster either. Not sure if we get on via trade, draft, or FA. I havent been able to get a feel for Holmgren yet.

I have a feeling that we will see Kevin Kolb at QB this off-season.

I'd be fairly upset if we didn't draft Gerald McCoy if he was there when we draft.

Actually, I'd be very upset.

Agreed. I think there are three elite guys in this year's draft. Suh, Berry, and McCoy. NFL Network's Mike Mayock even has McCoy ahead of Suh.

If we passed on one of them I would be upset. Also, Manholmkert's background shows that they like to draft offensive/defensive linemen early. If he's there we take him. I just don't think he will be there.

Quote:

I have a feeling that we will see Kevin Kolb at QB this off-season.

Where?

Quote:

I'd be fairly upset if we didn't draft Gerald McCoy if he was there when we draft.

Actually, I'd be very upset.

Ill admit to not knowing that much about him. I just have a feeling that Bradfords a guy that will prove a lot of doubters wrong about his injury. And I'd like him to do that here.

In order of preference for Cle I'd take.

Berry
Hayden
Bradford
Trade down for McClain.

I leave out Suh and McCoy due to not being familiar with mccoy and knowing suh won't be there.

If we don't take Bradford, I'd like Colt McCoy in around the 3rd round. Paired up with Matt Hasselbeck.

Quote:

And where do you get this three-year project from. May be it's one year before he's ready to start, may be he can start toward the end of the year this year.

It's been a heavy majority opinion for a while now...

Washington Post

Quote:

As a whole, it's going to be a long process for Tebow to develop into a better quarterback. I'm slowly coming around to the idea that he could be a starter in the NFL, however it wouldn't happen for at least two years. This is just one step in the process of developing Tebow into an NFL quarterback

Yahoo.com Sports

Quote:

I can tell you what will happen if Tebow stays in Florida. Fans will expect immediate greatness. They won’t stay patient and wait for what is likely to be a protracted period of development if Tebow does indeed play quarterback at the next level.
...
Tebow is going to be in a similar situation if he lands in Jacksonville. If the process was done correctly, he’d sit and develop for a number of years behind current starter David Garrard

Draft Countdown

Quote:

A long-term project who will likely require at least 2-3 years of development but can contribute in other ways in the meantime

These are just a few examples. You can find more if you look, but I didn't feel like it.

So, I spent some time while sick this week (a) coming up with my big board, which is a combo of boards, plus a lot of reading, notes from games this season, and senior bowl performances (b) all 32 team's needs and (c) a needs based mock.

I did a full 4 rounds, then projected the remaining picks for the Browns...

1.....St Louis.....Ndamukong Suh
I contemplated Clausen and would not be surprised if Clausen is a Ram come April. I can see a trade dropping St. Louis down a spot or two to make it happen, but I'm not doing trades in this draft and Suh is the best guy in the draft.
2.....Detroit.....Gerald McCoy
McCoy was the second best defensive lineman in the NCAA this past season IMHO. Detroit can't go wrong with him. Berry was a close second choice.
3.....Tampa Bay.....Derrick Morgan
Surprise. Not sure why exactly I chose Morgan over Berry here, call it a gut feeling, and he fllls a huge need.
4.....Washington.....Jimmy Clausen.
Bradford or Clausen is the question. From the sites I trust, Clausen is rated higher than Bradford more often, so I went Clausen.
5.....Kansas City.....Eric Berry
KC could go OT or safety here. I can't imagine KC passing up on such a potential impact player over an OT, when many OTs can be had later in the draft.
6.....Seattle.....Joe Haden
Seattle's defensive backfield was very poor last year. Trufant was injured most of the year and struggled when he came back. Kelly Jennings has underperformed, and Josh Wilson shows potential. Haden is a big upgrade and has the potential to make Seattle's two starting DBs the best in football (assuming Trufant returns to form)
7.....Cleveland.....Brandon Graham.....OLB
Tough choice here. Thoughts were Bradford, Iupati, McClain, Okung, and Graham. Graham dominated the senior bowl and fills a big need. I didn't go with Bradford solely because I think Holmgren has other plans (again a gut feeling, nothing concrete), but I can seem him making a splash in his first draft with a QB.

Remaining Browns picks
38.....Jermaine Gresham.....TE
I was surprised to see him still available at 38 and doubt this will be the case come draft day, but he was available in my draft and fills a need, so...
71.....Morgan Burnett.....SS
92.....Jordan Shipley.....WR
102.....Kyle Calloway.....OT
130.....John Jerry.....OG
133.....Major Wright.....FS
156.....Pat Angerer.....ILB
167.....James Starks.....RB
175.....Devin Ross.....CB
198.....Freddie Barnes.....WR

I gotta say, if our first two picks went like that I would be extremely happy.

A guy to get after the QB and a TE who can catch the ball.

Not too far fetched either.

Sorry dude, but there is no chance that Graham goes top 10. He's a late 1st rounder.

Why?

mid to late, yes probably - though I'm thinking he'll go a little earlier than most think he will.

i'd guess the Browns would go with Bradford if my first 6 were the case. i wound't be upset with that pick, but i went with the guy I liked the most. if the first 6 in my draft were the first six taken in reality, who'd you grab?

Supposedly limited upside. Teams don't like his lack of elite athleticism.

clwb, I'd take Bradford there.

There's talk that St Louis, like every team that's ever had the 1st pick, wants to trade out of it.

My question is, is there anyone here that wants Suh enough to trade up for him?

I didn't have McCoy at our pick because I don't think DT is a glaring top ten pick type of need right now.

I'm not sure how Suh fits in the 3-4, he's around the build of a Richard Seymore, no?

What's our new Green Bay/Seattle/Phillys FO past philosophy when it comes to top ten picks? Mangini wants to trade down we know that, but we already have 11 picks.
We could pull a Bmore and trade down and then trade back up?

Who knows. Is it April yet?

But, if at the combine Graham proves he doesn't athleticism then he can most definitely go top 10. Right? If he runs anything under a 4.65 I'd say he is a top 10 pick.

I'm not normally in favor of drafting guys who have to switch positions in the 1st round. But Graham has thoroughly impressed me.

He was good in high school. He was good in college. I don't see how he won't be good in the pros.

solid choice. my biggest fear is that Suh, McCoy, Berry, Clausen, Bradford, and Haden are the first 6 taken.

Quote:

solid choice. my biggest fear is that Suh, McCoy, Berry, Clausen, Bradford, and Haden are the first 6 taken.

Trade down or take Okung and have the best Oline for the next 10 years.

Quote:

I'm not normally in favor of drafting guys who have to switch positions in the 1st round. But Graham has thoroughly impressed me.

Sounds like someone else that we recently drafted in the 1st.
Is that you Phil... (sorry couldn't resist)
Take McClain

I take Dez Bryant with no regrets.

I would have thought you would take McClain. I don't see us taking him since MH is a pass/stop the pass kind of guy and McClain is more of a run stopper.

As for Bryant, if this scenario played out, I would probably take him too. But with some regrets.

As much as I love McClain, the value for an ILB isn't as good as a WR, and they are both top 5 players IMO.

Get your point.

Personally I would be ecstatic if Berry fell to us and extremely disappointed if Haden didn't. The other 2 I would like are Suh and McCoy but no way either fall to us. without some kind of combine controversy (in which cae I might change my tune).

I would also consider Bradford if the shoulder is healthy - this will tell us a lot about the kid ie what kind of worker he is, how hard he rehabbed.

After that I would probably favor trade down if possible. Otherwise Bryant, but I wouldn't be happy about it.

Well heres my mock so far, subject to change after the combine of-course.

Free agents signings

Troy Smith
from Baltimore for a 5th round pick, worht the shot to let him compete and see if he can do somethign for us, and he comes pretty cheap.

Torry Holt
Rumors a circulating that Jacksonville will cut him. Still has some play left in him and he would be the perfect guy to groom our young guy's.

Dunta Robinson
Probably on the out's with Houston after his long hold out. Solid corner to help solidify our secondary.

Draft

1- Eric Berry S Tennessee
The more I look at it the more I think he could slip to us. The teams drafting ahead of us could defiantely use some help in some other areas and I think they will try and land a safety in the second round beign as this year is kind of deep with em'.

2- Dominique Franks CB Oklahoma
Speedy guy who has tons of experience in a pass happy Big 12. Descent size and a solid tackler. With Wright, Berry, Robinson and Franks our secondary immediately go's from sub-par to a strength.

3a- George Selvie DE/OLB
Selvie could have went as early as the first round last year and theres still a possibility he could go in the second. But with so much talent through the first few rounds Selvie is probably going to slip. Paul-Pierre is the one getting all the attention but I think it was Selvie who helped to make that happen. I hope he sends Selvie a thank you card.

3b- Mike Johnson G Alabama
This guy is a future pro-bowler and has a bright future in the NFL. Great pass blocker and run blocker. Watched him in the National Championship game and what I seen was a dominant guard who could probably step right in from day one. Could go higher but as it stands right now he can be had around this general area. Hopefully it stays that way

4- Jason Fox OT Miami
A bit slim for the position but he is smart, athletic and has alot of room to grow. Been the starter at LT in Miami since his freshman year and has done a pretty good job. Would move to RT for us and with time could be a special player. Has to work on his technique and gain a little weight but if he has a good showing at the combine then he could go a bit higher based on potential alone.

5a- Jeremy Williams WR Tulane
This guy does it all. He was one of the bess receivers in college, returned kicks and rushed the ball. Has had some injury concerns but he's still been able to put up solid numbers. Isn't super fast but runs good routes and is a good blocker. Reminds me a little bit of Percy Harvin in his versatility, could be a pretty big pipe dream to land him here but teams might shy away from him because of his injury history.

5b- Al Woods DL LSU
Big guy who has experience at both DT and DE. Needs a little more experience and time to develop and we need youth on the defensive line.

6a- Mike Williams WR Syracuse
We need help at receiver and bringing in two guys with mid to lower round picks that have potential is probably a bright thing to do. Williams has had a bit of a troublesome college career but theres no doubt that he has talent. If he pans out then it's great but if he proves to be problematic or doesn't develop he's only a 6th round pick and we can just cut him and it won't be the end of the world. Definately worth a look.

6b- Arthur Moats LB James Madison
Not an overly huge guy at 6'1" 250lbs but he has alot of speed. Completely dominated the FCS in tackles for a loss and even added 11 sacks, making it two years in a row he recorded double digit sacks. Could be one of those small school gems.

7- Lorenzo Washington DE Alabama
Depth and a developmental guy. Has experience playing the 3-4.

Berry will not fall to us at 7. There are three elite guys in this draft (Suh, McCoy, and Berry). Why would a team with a need at safety pass on a potential All-Pro safety? They won't.

Torry Holt has dropped off these passed two seasons. He had no TD's this year. If he was worth anything a semi-contender like Jacksonville wouldn't be getting rid of him. He's had a great career but will be 34 when the next season starts, he will not be a help to any team that plans on contending.

Teams draftingahead of us are...

Rams- needs at QB, DL, OG, CB, WR
No need at Safety so they go Suh

Lions- Needs at DL, CB, OL
No need for a saftey they go McCoy or Okung

Tampa- Needs at DL, WR, CB, S
They have young safteys in Sabby and Jackson If the Lions go Okung which they probably will Tampa go's McCoy

Washington- Needs at OL, LB, RB, Possibly QB if Snyder pushes it.
They have no need at saftey so they could either go QB or they could go with McClain

Kansas City- Needs at OL, LB, WR, S
They have a need for a safety but they have the worst offensive line in football. This pick will go to one of the top LT's available. Pioli KNOWS you need a good offensive line to win in this game.

Seattle- Needs at OL, QB, RB, WR, S, DL
Matt Hasslbeck is pretty much finished, the offensive line is old and they don't have a go to reciever. They have two first round picks and an early 2nd round pick with a deep draft class for the saftey position. They could go many different ways but safety I don't think is one of them this early. Also startign LT Walter Jones has either retired or is hinting at it. They need a replacement.

Say what you will but there is a real possiblity Berry WILL fall to us.

The reason I want Holt here is because he can still contribute a little bit and he can also take our young guy's under his wing and help them learn the position better. Look at how he helped with Mike Thomas and Mike Sims-Walker. And yes he had a major role in they're development, which is why Jags fans want to keep him.

Teams don't pass on All-Pro talent because of other position needs. When you finish 1-15, 2-14, 3-13, etc you take the best player available.

Anyway, here's a look at the safeties for the teams that draft before us:

Rams - Someone named Craig Dahl, Someone named David Roach, a player released mid-season by a playoff contender in Clinton Hart, and a stop gap Spagnuolo brought with him from the Giants (James Butler). There is a clear need at safety on the Rams. They need a safety.

Lions - Marquand Manuel, a guy who has played for four teams the last four years and six teams in right years in the league, Kalvin Pearson, a 31 year old guy I've never heard of, Louis Delmas a guy who should start long term in the league, and Ko Simpson (started the last four games of the season, but Berry would be a clear upgrade). Daniel Bullocks missed the entire 2007 and 2009 seasons due to injury. They need a safety.

Buccaneers - Sabby Piscatelli a average player can start in the league, Corey Lynch has never started in two years in the NFL (he's the dude that blocked the kick for Appalachian State against Michigan), and Tanard Jackson a clear starter and possible future star. Will Allen was injured most of the 2009 season and is a solid starter. Berry will be the best player available if he's there when they pick, but they don't have a clear need at safety.

Redskins - Reed Doughty started seven games for them this past season and is an average starter, Chris Horton is an above average starter when healthy, they have someone named Lendy Holmes, LaRon Landry is an above average to good player, and they have someone named Kareem Moore also who had one start and one pick at safety in 2009. Berry would be an upgrade over Horton, but they have some depth at the position with Doughty. Berry would be the best player available if he's available in this slot. Also, it seems like Shanahan would want to go offense in his first draft back.

Chiefs - DaJuan Morgan started two games for them last year, Jarrad Page started for two straight seasons and the first five games of the 2009 season before being put on the IR, Mike Brown started all sixteen games for them at safety but will be 32 when the 2010 season starts and has been injury prone his entire career, Reshard Langford didn't play in any games for them last year, Jon McGraw is mostly a special teamer who can play when needed. Scott Pioli was with the Patriots from 2000 to 2008, in that time the Patriots always had pretty good safeties. Yes, Pioli knows that you need a good O-Line, but he probably also knows you need a good safety to direct your secondary. Berry will be the best player available if available and the Chiefs have a need at safety.

Seahawks - Deon Grant has started every game for nine seasons. You don't do that being a bad player. He is 30 years old though. Last year Jordan Babineaux started all sixteen games for the first time in his career. Lawyer Milloy is ancient. Jamar Adams has never started a game in two years. The Seahawks could keep both Babineaux and Grant and be okay, but Berry would be an upgrade over both. He would also be the best player available at this spot.

Like I said before. There are three elite players in this draft (Suh, McCoy, and Berry). Teams with an obvious need at safety will not pass up the best player available at a position of need.

I understand you want Berry (as do I) but we have to be realistic about this. The only way we get him is if we trade up.

I agree Holt would mentor our young receivers. But we already have a guy who is around to do that. His name is George McDonald. If Holt came in understanding that he is no longer a #1 receiver and didn't demand top dollar I think he would be a good fit in the role Joe Jurevicius played. I don't think he's capable of much more.

Rams- You conviently forgot O.J Otogwe, one of the top safety's in the leagueprior tohis off year last year, partly because of his injury. Again Safety's not a need.

Lions- Terrible offensive line, drafted a QB last year first overall, would make sense to protect him wouldn't it? Safety position is just fine and is no way shape or form needed over offensive or defensive line. And no teams go 1-15, 2-14.....because they refuse to draft for the holes they need. Everybody in the league knows Detroit needs offensive and defensive lineman.

Tampa- you said it, not a clear need at safety

Redskins- Horton and Landry are emerging stars. End of story, no need at safety.

Chiefs- They need offensive line help in the worst way. Pioliis smart enough to know that he can walk away with a good left tackle here and draft one of the talented safety's that could be there in the second round. Earl Thomas, Chad Jones or Nate Allen one or two could be there when they pick in the second round. I would much rather walk away with a starting left tackle and a second tier safety then a star safety and a second tier left tackle. That shouldn't even be questioned. They have more glaring holes than saftey.

Seahawks- This could be the wild card because this is the ONLY place I see Berry landing, however like I said they have needs everywhere. They could go a number of ways here. They could go QB, OL, DL, S, hell they could even go Dez Bryant (not very likely though). I put this pick the same way I put the Chiefs. They have alot of holes to fill that are more glaring than the safety position. Plus they have another first round pick and a second round pick that either one could land them a saftey. Do you think that Carroll isn't thinking that Mays could fall to their pick at 14 and they could draft him there? Hell if he doesn't they can draft Earl Thomas.

I love Eric Berry as much as the next guy but that is NOT the reason I think he will fall. That would be idiotic.

Looking at the players available, the situations they are in and the way they can go about filling the holes they have I firmly believe that there is a strong chance Berry will be available when we pick, and it's not just a pipe dream.

As for Holt you said we have George McDonald. O.k I will counter that with.......We have George McDonald

This is his second year at the pro level coaching Receivers, it's not like he is some sort of guru. Young players benefit from having a veteran presence at thier position. Only problem is Holt is at that age now where he would probably like to join a contender. He's getting up there in age and has had the taste of a superbowl and i'm sure he would love to get it again.

I think there is ver little chance that Berry falls to us.

Rams: Will take Suh, Bradford, or Clausen. I think Suh at this point.
Lions: Will take Suh or McCoy. With Suh gone, it's McCoy. Okung would be a terrible reach at #2.
Bucs: Will take McCoy, (if he's still there) Haden, Berry or Bryant. I think Bryant at this point.
Redskins: Will take Okung, Bradford, Clausen or Anthony Davis. I think Clausen.
Seahawks: Will take Okung, Bradford, Clausen, Derrick Morgan, Eric Berry, or Anthony Davis. I think Berry.

also, let us not underestimate someone realizing our dire need at safety and jumping us to pick Berry....

So who will the chiefs take?

My prediction

Rams: Suh - BPA and makes them have a sick D-line

Lions: McCoy - Need a DT bad

Bucs: Berry - Would be perfect in a Tampa 2. Hope they pick Haden because Barber is old

Cheifs: Mcclain - They have the D-line but they continue to build on front 7

Redskins: Clausen or Bradford - Could be Okung because their O-line stinks

Seahawks: Okung - Walter Jones just retired. I could also see one of the remaining QBs.

They are going to forfeit the pick.

Somehow I forgot the team that I think Berry goes to. The Chiefs have a huge need at safety, and he will be the BPA there.

My bad, I missed Atogwe because the depth charts I was looking at didn't include guys that were on the injured reserve. And I guess I forgot to look at the injured reserve for the Rams.

So even if Atogwe is healthy they still have a need at safety as you need two safeties.

Also, Chris Horton, a future star a safety. Please. He is a nice player, but no future star.

You don't need a star at every position. Also, Berry and Atogwe both play FS. No way the Rams take him, and I have about a million reasons.

I don't think the Rams will take him either. Just pointing out that he would fit with them if they wanted him.

I think the Rams will take Suh or McCoy.

Quote:

I think there is very little chance that Berry falls to us.

Rams: Will take Suh, Bradford, or Clausen. I think Suh at this point.
Lions: Will take Suh or McCoy. With Suh gone, it's McCoy. Okung would be a terrible reach at #2.
Bucs: Will take McCoy, (if he's still there) Haden, Berry or Bryant. I think Bryant at this point.
Redskins: Will take Okung, Bradford, Clausen or Anthony Davis. I think Clausen.
Seahawks: Will take Okung, Bradford, Clausen, Derrick Morgan, Eric Berry, or Anthony Davis. I think Berry.

I disagree if the draft played out this way I don't think the Seahawks even question taking Okung. I really wouldn't even be suprised if they take Bradford. Carroll is an offensive minded guy and he's gonna wanna get a QB of the future.

I could see the Chiefs either going McClain or Okung.

Quote:

My bad, I missed Atogwe because the depth charts I was looking at didn't include guys that were on the injured reserve. And I guess I forgot to look at the injured reserve for the Rams.

So even if Atogwe is healthy they still have a need at safety as you need two safeties.

Also, Chris Horton, a future star a safety. Please. He is a nice player, but no future star.

Horton had 76 tackles, 1 sack, 3 interceptions and 5 passes deflected his rookie year as a 7th round pick and only played in 14 games. He was injured this year. Yes the guy is an emerging star.

Carroll is admittedly a defensive guy, and Okung is gonna drop. Just watch.

An inside linebacker will not go top 5. Patrick Willis didn't, Jarod Mayo didn't, and Rolando McClain won't.

I wouldn't say won't. Looking back, Willis should have gone top 5.

And I know he's not an inside linebacker, but last year Aaron Curry went top 5.

If a guy is good enough he will go top 5. Is McClain good enough? Probably not.

Quote:

An inside linebacker will not go top 5. Patrick Willis didn't, Jarod Mayo didn't, and Rolando McClain won't.

but AJ Hawk did.

agree that McClain likely drops...but it just takes one team falling in love with him to take him. with the DL and DB options though, it would be surrpising this year.

Hasn;t happened for awhile but in the early 90s, it was all the rage

Marvin Jones in 1993
Quentin Coryatt in 1992
Junior Seau 1990

I happen to agree with you deep although I think McClain is a better prospect than either Willis or Mayo was.

AJ was drafted as an outside backer I think.

Green Bay ran a 4-3 at the time so I think they did draft Hawk to be a ILB.

I double checked on this.... Hawk played OLB until GB switched to a 3-4. Packers MLB in the 4-3 was Nick Barnett.

He has always been an OLB until this year.

There hasn't been an ILB taken top 5 in a long time.

I think he's similar to Willis. Willis offered mover schematic versatility, but McClain is more of a thumper.

See above...1993. It was all the rage to do it in the early 90s.

I think McClain has a shot of going top 5 this year for the following reasons:
A) There is no elite RB in this draft
B) There is no franchise left tackle in this draft
C) The top two QBs have serious question marks.

In most years, I'd say he'd have little shot of breaking top five, but with the weak elite class this year, there's a case to be made for him.

Quote:

I double checked on this.... Hawk played OLB until GB switched to a 3-4. Packers MLB in the 4-3 was Nick Barnett.

Okay for some reason I thought Barnett was hurt which caused Hawk to make the switch my mistake.

I like McClain due to the rave reviews about his leadership and defensive smarts. Having a true field general out there can do big things for a defense.

When we gave away Brian Russell, our defense got immediately worse. Not because he was great skill wise but because he had good vision and field smarts and could direct a D.

Quote:

Quote:

I double checked on this.... Hawk played OLB until GB switched to a 3-4. Packers MLB in the 4-3 was Nick Barnett.

Okay for some reason I thought Barnett was hurt which caused Hawk to make the switch my mistake.

No, you are right there....hawk played inside in the 4-3 when Barnett got hurt, but he was drafted as an OLB and played his first two years outside.

But there are two top DT's, a top WR, two QB's who could very easily go top 5, a top safety, and a top corner. All of those positions are valued ahead of ILB.

I can't remember a draft where I liked this many guys who will be avavilable at our spot. McClain, Haden, Iupati, Graham, Bryant. Give me any of these guys and I will be happy. Trade down and I will be happier.

What a terrible QB class. Sam Bradford and Jimmy Clausen as top 5 QB's. Yikes. I'm glad we don't need a QB....

I love Bradford.

Quote:

But there are two top DT's, a top WR, two QB's who could very easily go top 5, a top safety, and a top corner. All of those positions are valued ahead of ILB.

True....but

Safeties also very rarely go top 5.
The two QBs are questionable.... one did not consistently show he could win (Clausen) and the other has an injured shoulder that hasn;t been greenlighted yet (Bradford).
Dez Bryant has some mixed reviews on him and some even rank Benn ahead of him (I think Bryant is awesome personally)

In my mind, the only real locks to go top five are McCoy and Suh. These two I would bet every penny I have that they go top five. Is it likely that at least one QB and Berry will go top 5? Absolutely. Would I guarantee it? Nope.

Where is your mock anyways Deep? I remember you said you were doing one after Senior Bowl...I'd like to see who you like.

I believe it is the 9th last post of the 1st page here.

A spread QB who has never played in a pro style offense and has had major shoulder injuries and surgery in the passed year, forcing him to miss most of his Junior season. Good accuracy, questionable arm strength.

Did the guy I just described make you think of a top 5 pick. Or even top 10. I don't think so.

I think if given time to develop Bradford can be a good QB in the league. But nowadays if you are drafted top 10 as a QB you are expected to start from day one.

I wouldn't be surprised if both Clausen and Bradford fell into the 13-24 range.

Here is what I see with Bradford:

Pros-

-- Great accuracy; very rarely throws behind receivers.
-- Amazing release. He gets rid of the ball as quick as anyone.
-- Good mobility.
-- Very good throwing on the move, even going to his left.
-- Good, but not great arm. Can make all the throws needed.
-- Rarely makes bad decisions.
-- Great mechanics.
-- Good footwork when dropping back.

Cons-

-- Shoulder.
-- Spread offense.
-- Surrounding talent.

If he comes out at the Scouting Combine/Pro Day and puts good zip on the ball with no signs of shoulder problems, he is my guy.

Quote:

Carroll is admittedly a defensive guy, and Okung is gonna drop. Just watch.

An inside linebacker will not go top 5. Patrick Willis didn't, Jarod Mayo didn't, and Rolando McClain won't.

Okay well that's all fine and good but they guy should be smart enough to realize that he has no QB and no line to protect one.

I wouldn't bet on McClain goign top 5 but it's a possibility. But I wouldn't bet on nobody drafting Clausen, Bradford or Bryant in the top 6 either,possibly leaving Berry to fall to us. I think the chances are as good as any. And hey if he doesn't i'm perfectly happy with Haden. But I still think Berry will fall to us.

Suh- Ecstatic

Haden, Berry, Bryant, McClain- Happy

Clausen, Bradford- Nervous but not immediately against it

McCoy, Okung- Me screaming "NO!" at the tv.

Quote:

No, you are right there....hawk played inside in the 4-3 when Barnett got hurt, but he was drafted as an OLB and played his first two years outside.

I started this tangent.....sorry and thanks for the correction.

Quote:

Clausen, Bradford- Nervous but not immediately against it

McCoy, Okung- Me screaming "NO!" at the tv.

Switch those two reactions and that's how I'd feel. I will flip out if we draft Clausen. Bradford has taken snaps under center.

Also Deep Okung will not slip past the Redskins mark it down.

Redskins will go QB IMO.

And I respectfully disagree their O-line is bad

So was the Lions' last year. There's a basic rule in the draft. If you don't have your franchise QB, get one.

There is already talk about the 'Skins taking a QB. PFT even posted an article about it.

I could see that.... New coach...might want to give Campbell a try.

Although I've seen lots of rumours that Shanahan is enamoured with Bradford.

Quote:

So was the Lions' last year. There's a basic rule in the draft. If you don't have your franchise QB, get one.

There is already talk about the 'Skins taking a QB. PFT even posted an article about it.

The skins do have a decent QB. Also going by your logic the Rams should draft Clausen/Bradford over Ndamukong Suh? It doesn't always work that way.

Quote:

Clausen, Bradford- Nervous but not immediately against it

I am i've got Christian Ponder in my crosshairs next season. Next years draft class is going to be a good one me thinks.

You've got the possibility of Locker, Ponder, Mallet, Devlin, maybe Prior if he lights it up this year and decides to declare (I don't think he will do either)

I don't even want to think about investing in a QB this year.

As I said, it's a general rule. And IMO the Rams should draft Suh, because he is that much better than Bradford as a prospect.

It isn't a popular opinion amongst fans to take a QB, but more often than not, that is a huge problem for a team picking that high.

The Skins may not have a huge need at QB, but JC struggled last year, and with a new HC/FO, there is a very good chance that they want to clean house. It is well known that Snyder doesn't like Campbell too.

But I thought Shanahan has came out and said he likes Campbell. Plus Shanahan has the final say on his team doesn't he?

Of course he is going to say that. It just sounds like he really wants to start over and get his guy at QB.

And he technically has final say, but so did Jerry Reese with the Titans. Reese wanted Leinart, but their owner (whose name escapes me at the moment) wanted VY. The guy writing the paychecks always wins.

Yeah I agree with that. Thats why I said the Redskins could go QB if Snyder pushes it.

I was just thinking that if they do go QB it probably won't be because Shanahan wants to clean house.

the Skins need 2 tackles,a guard, halfback and a free safety.

IMO, Shanahan trys to build a running attack with OL and a halfback.

I've read two different Mock Drafts today (which are pretty much meaningless, but still fun).

This is the top 7 in the one from the National Football Post

1. St. Louis Rams: Sam Bradford, QB, Oklahoma

2. Detroit Lions: Ndamukong Suh, DT, Nebraska

3. Tampa Bay Buccaneers: Gerald McCoy, DT, Oklahoma

4. Washington Redskins: Jimmy Clausen, QB, Notre Dame

5. Kansas City Chiefs: Russell Okung, OT, Oklahoma State

6. Seattle Seahawks: Eric Berry, S, Tennessee

7. Cleveland Browns: Rolando McClain, ILB, Alabama

I hope both QB's are gone by the time we pick that way we have no chance at either of them.

And here's another one that I read today

1. St. Louis Rams: Gerald McCoy, DT, Oklahoma

2. Detroit Lions: Ndamukong Suh, DT, Nebraska

3. Tampa Bay Buccaneers: Jason Pierre-Paul, DE, South Florida

4. Washington Redskins: Anthony Davis, OT, Rutgers

5. Kansas City Chiefs: Russell Okung, OT, Oklahoma State

6. Seattle Seahawks: Bryan Bulaga, OT, Iowa

7. Cleveland Browns: Eric Berry, S, Tennessee

I have to say that my best case scenario would be Berry falling to us. I just don't see it happening.

Quote:

Quote:

So was the Lions' last year. There's a basic rule in the draft. If you don't have your franchise QB, get one.

There is already talk about the 'Skins taking a QB. PFT even posted an article about it.

The skins do have a decent QB. Also going by your logic the Rams should draft Clausen/Bradford over Ndamukong Suh? It doesn't always work that way.

We'll see when the draft comes around but it wouldn't surprise me one bit if the Rams went with a Qb #1 overall.

Scout.com

This is Scout.com's Chris Strueber's 2 rd mock draft. Has us taking Haden and Ryan Matthews. Not a fan of the Matthews pick as I think Harrison/Davis is a solid backfield and dont see the need there, would rather us take Benn if we decide to go offense, or another Oline man. Would rather see us go defense with both picks though.

Quote:

And here's another one that I read today

1. St. Louis Rams: Gerald McCoy, DT, Oklahoma

2. Detroit Lions: Ndamukong Suh, DT, Nebraska

3. Tampa Bay Buccaneers: Jason Pierre-Paul, DE, South Florida

4. Washington Redskins: Anthony Davis, OT, Rutgers

5. Kansas City Chiefs: Russell Okung, OT, Oklahoma State

6. Seattle Seahawks: Bryan Bulaga, OT, Iowa

7. Cleveland Browns: Eric Berry, S, Tennessee

I have to say that my best case scenario would be Berry falling to us. I just don't see it happening.

More evidence that Todd McShay is a quack.

Little to early to say quack. Last yr at this time, having KC taking Tyson Jackson, most people would have said you were crazy too, as he was a late board riser. Jason Pierre-Paul has been gaining momentum as he is literally the only player of his kind (meaning elite pass rushing talent) in this year's draft. Buluga that high is a stretch especially considering his health condition. Lets not forget that McShay gets paid big money by sports biggest network to do his job. He must have some cred to back it up.

Quote:

Scout.com

This is Scout.com's Chris Strueber's 2 rd mock draft. Has us taking Haden and Ryan Matthews. Not a fan of the Matthews pick as I think Harrison/Davis is a solid backfield and dont see the need there, would rather us take Benn if we decide to go offense, or another Oline man. Would rather see us go defense with both picks though.

I like Mathews a lot, but would be disappointed if we had to use our 2nd round pick to get him. Really hoping he drops to the 3rd for us (at this point sites are all over the map from late-1st to early 4th on him).

RB just isn't as important as some other positions....in that particular mock, we'd be skipping Sergio Kindle and Jerry Hughes as very much needed rush-LBs to get him.

I was just about to come on here to talk about him.

I have heard that teams love his potential. I don't think he will go top 5, but I could see Seattle taking him. He is rising fast.

Quote:

Jason Pierre-Paul has been gaining momentum as he is literally the only player of his kind (meaning elite pass rushing talent) in this year's draft.

Is Jason Paul-Pierre really that good or did he benefit from having George Selvie on the other side, who drew alot of double teams this year?

Don't be so quick to forget about the Mario Williams-Manny Lawson situatuion. Lawson was another guy who flew updraft boards because of his freakish abilities but really benefitted from having Mario Williams playing on the other side. Lawson played o.k this year but was pretty much considered a bust.

I don't know nearly enough about Paul-Pierre and Selvie other than reading that Selvie drew alot of double teams this year. I hope some team takes him in the top 6 because that will give us a better chance of landing Berry but I don't see it happening.

From what I watched, teams focused on JPP a lot more than Selvie. I didn't see Selvie getting double teamed, chipped or anything of the sort. I have only watched a few games of USF though.

He is good, but I don't think he's a top 10 player. More like top 15 or 20.

Who knows how far he may shoot up, though. I'm hearing he's going to be this year's workout warrior at the combine.

Quote:

Scout.com

This is Scout.com's Chris Strueber's 2 rd mock draft. Has us taking Haden and Ryan Matthews. Not a fan of the Matthews pick as I think Harrison/Davis is a solid backfield and dont see the need there, would rather us take Benn if we decide to go offense, or another Oline man. Would rather see us go defense with both picks though.

Haden pick is obvious..if Matthews is the BPA at that time you take him but I suspect he won't be..the Browns should go safety/LB with that second pick..but I have no problem with a power runner like Matthews..I like Dwyer better..but he could be gone.

Quote:

Is Jason Paul-Pierre really that good or did he benefit from having George Selvie on the other side, who drew alot of double teams this year?

I don't know nearly enough about Paul-Pierre and Selvie other than reading that Selvie drew alot of double teams this year. I hope some team takes him in the top 6 because that will give us a better chance of landing Berry but I don't see it happening.

In SoFLA games I saw this year, the announcers kept saying how JPP may be a better pro prospect that Selvie, and that he still has a lot of raw talent with a super-high ceiling. However, the guy I would always see making plays all over the field was Selvie. While he is a talented pass rusher, Selvie's real strength IMO (I've been watching him 2 or 3 years now) is his ability to just be around the ball. All the time. Doesn't matter if they're running to his side or the other, he's in on the tackle. He doesn't have the elite body that JPP has, but the guy is a football player. He's definitely a finesse football player, but he's a football player.

Personally, I'd prefer we get brandom graham or george selvie to jpp. Especially when you consider the value where you'd have to take jpp this year.

1 - CB Joe Haden - Florida - Day 1 starter
2 - G Mike Iupati - Idaho - Could move to RT, Day 1 starter
3 - G Jon Asamoah - Illinois - adds depth and possibly start at RG
3 - TE Aaron Hernandez - Florida - adds depth, could possibly start
4 - S Myron Rolle - Florida State - very smart, could possibly start
5 - T Sam Young - Notrie Dame - adds depth, could push to start at RT
5 - RB LaGarrette Blount - Oregon
5 - RB Stafon Johnson - USC

i would take this draft in a heartbeat

we need to draft 2 safeties..

I would love this draft if it happened....but I don't think Iupati will get out of the 1st and I don't think Hernandez will get out of the 2nd.

Iupati is a Top 15 pick. Not going to be there in the 2nd.

Hernandez will not be there in the 3rd.

Blount will not be there in the 5th.

Iupati won't be there in the 2nd, but he is not a top 15 pick.

Also not able to move over to RT. The senior bowl practices showed that he isn't very good in space. I think he will be a pro bowl guard someday but at RT I don't think he would be much better than St Claire is right now.

Quote:

I don't think Hernandez will get out of the 2nd.

- He's rated as the 5th best TE. - 3rd round I think.

Says who? Just about everyone has him as 3rd best.

One pompadoured guy on ESPN has him rated as the #1 tight end.

Which is just ridiculous. Gresham is a stud.

Quote:

Which is just ridiculous. Gresham is a stud.

The big question of course, is whether he'll come back 100% or he'll never be above 90% again (a la KWII.) Will he be able to block at an NFL level at his weight with that knee injury? There's no doubt that athletically and as a receiver he is unmatched in this draft at TE.

He'll be fine. Wasn't that bad of a knee injury. Winslow had the staph infection as well.

What people forget about with K2 was that he was a terrible blocker before the knee injury.

there is no need to draft a TE high.. I would not touch one til' the fourth atleast..

TE is an interesting position for us. I think Moore solidified a roster spot with his play last season. But what about Heiden? Solid player (actually I would say better than solid) but he never seemed to completely come back from his injury. Will he this year or is he retirement bound? Gaines looked pretty good at times. A big boy for sure. I think he really helped the run game. But he is one of our unrestricted free agents. Does he want to resign with us? Does the team want to resign him? And of course there is still Dinkins. Only room for so many TE's. And I almost forgot about Estandia. Not sure what to make of him.

Then there is the whole issue of how important MH considers the TE position. Does he want a down the field receiver type guy or a bruising blocker type guy who can also be a redzone threat?

Personally I would resign Gaines. Paired with Moore and 1 or 2 or the other guys mentioned above and I think TE is solid. Not spectacular but good enough to get the job done. I would then utilize my draft choices elsewhere unless a steal fell into my lap. I would rather improve at safety, CB, RT, RG, get a young DE and try to improve our pass rush then draft a TE. I would also like to get one of those bruiser type Rb's later in the draft as well (Hardesty Scott, Tate or Dixon - I like Gerhart too but he will probably go a round or 2 higher than these guys with not much more value). Not to mention the Qb position.

So while we are nowhere near set at TE, I think improving the position is lower on our needs than many others. Never pass up great value but if value is roughly the same then the need is greater elsewhere.

Dinkins is not on this team anymore, so that's one guy you don't have to worry as much about............

But I will be interested in what happens between Estandia, Gaines, and Heiden. None of the new TE's show themselves as superstars. But they're both very big guys that are good at blocking and very large targets. Estandia is very tall and both have decent hands. I believe Gaines seemed a little more sure handed than Estandia (i think I remember him dropping one). Neither is going to run a very quick route for you, these guys are both better at blocking. But I believe that Estandia is better at getting open, I remember him going over the middle a few times. I don't mind either being on our roster.

I don't think any of their jobs are guarenteed, and we could draft a TE from round 2-7 which would replace all of these guys. But Moore definitely has to be the starter unless Steve Heiden comes out really strong or a rookie/FA is brought in (which would make him number 2).

And we could possibly cut Steve Heiden if he doesn't come back strong from his injury. He is kind of old. I just don't see more than three TE's on the roster. Dinkins finished this season on the NO Saints and Heiden is 33, plus this team's best football was without Heiden on the roster.

I agree that TE will be an interesting position.

And I hope that we cut Robert Royal. He simply dropped way too many passes. He's okay at getting open but makes himself too convincing for the QB to throw him the football. Then they throw it and he drops it or hits it in the air and the other team gets an INT. Robert Royal is a good runblocker, but he was absolutely unreliable last year. I guess it's Eric Mangini's decision what to do with him, but if he keeps him on this team, he cannot be used the same way as a target.

I don't see how we can possibly rely on Moore.

Quote:

I don't see how we can possibly rely on Moore.

I don't see how we can ignore his contribution.. he was activated on Dec 5th of 2009... Played in 5 games, had 12 receptions for 158 years or a 13 yard average.

While that isn't a story book tale, it's intersting in that some of his catches were rather tough to make, yet he made them look easy. I just happen to think there is more to this kid...

Not that I know for sure he's the answer.. but he's not bad..

I am not ignoring his production.

What is being ignored by others is his history of injuries and the fact that he only showed something for about a quarter of a season. In no way is that enough of a sample size to see if he will be a productive player.

Quote:

I don't see how we can possibly rely on Moore.

deep...Good football teams have a coaching staff capable of developing raw talent such as Moore.

At 6-6, 250, with good hands, Moore could develop into an outstanding TE. He does have an injury history that concerns me, but if he dedicates himself to improving his strenght and conditioning, it might help his durability.

Too soon to say what Evan Moore's future holds but I feel he's got the basic qualities to become a good TE.

I doubt the Browns are thinking TE in this years draft...too many other needs...jmho

Quote:

In no way is that enough of a sample size to see if he will be a productive player.

Or that he won't be a productive player

First of all, Moore has had huge injury problems, which is the reason the Packers cut him in the first place. I doubt he will do anything differently that will improve these.

Second of all, there are tons of players who don't get developed well, many of whom have much more talent than Moore.

Last but not least, a team needs more than one tight end. Heiden is pretty much done, and Royal is straight up awful.

I'm not saying TE is our biggest priority, but it is definitely a need.

Quote:

First of all, Moore has had huge injury problems,

I agree with everything you said but weren't you saying the same thing about Jerome Harrison?

Harrison has missed time due to injuries each year, with limited playing time.

The facts speak for themselves.

Quote:

Harrison has missed time due to injuries each year, with limited playing time.

The facts speak for themselves.

Yeah and the fact he produces speaks for itself.

I have always said that there is a place for Harrison on the Browns, but it's not as the feature back.

I swear, reading comprehension.

Quote:

I have always said that there is a place for Harrison on the Browns, but it's not as the feature back.

I swear, reading comprehension.

Did I ever imply that? Don't put words in my mouth kid.

I was just saying just because someone is hurt doesn't mean they can't produce or make a contribution to this team. I think Evan Moore can so TE is not a big need.

But can you rely on him without bringing in another option?

The answer is no.

Well I say yes, because I've seen TE's come out of nowhere and become stars for their team. It takes patience, the Browns won't be good for awhile so we might as well develop guys for now.

Quote:

But can you rely on him without bringing in another option?

The answer is no.

I understand your concerns and I'd like to have options at every position... the question is how important is it to have another option? What draft pick are we willing to spend on it? What are we willing to pay in FA? ... Then it becomes an issue of value... can we get a decent guy without reaching or overpaying... if we can, fine... if we can't, then roll with what we have and address it later. We can't possibly address every need in one off-season and I don't view TE as a pressing need... but I would love an upgrade (or depth depending on how you want to look at it) if the value is good.

It's one thing to develop, it's another to go into a season with zero backup plan to a guy that is very risky.

DC - I agree. The value has to be there, but I can't see how anyone is comfortable going into the season with Moore at tight end.

Quote:

It's one thing to develop, it's another to go into a season with zero backup plan to a guy that is very risky.

We don't need a stud at TE. So that's what Gaines and Royal's job is. They're geting paid too. I hate Royal but he's a decent 3rd stringer or at least I hope so

Exactly, he's a 3rd stringer. Even IF Moore can develop enough to be a starter at tight end, depth is still needed.

That's all I'm saying here.

What I'm trying to get at is that we don't need to draft a TE. Plain and simple, if we REALLY need depth then just sign some guy in FA.

Quote:

DC - I agree. The value has to be there, but I can't see how anyone is comfortable going into the season with Moore at tight end.

I'm not real comfortable with that.. so put that on the long list of things I'm not comfortable with at the moment.. I'm always weary of signing aging veterans, even at a decent price, but this is one case where I'd be very much in favor of that. Find me a solid (not stud) TE who has 2 or 3 years left in the tank and sign him... that would buy us an insurance policy to see what we really have in Moore and give us the ability to fill other holes that I think are more crucial right now... deal?

Deal.

Quote:

But can you rely on him without bringing in another option?

The answer is no.

THIS year, yes.

TE should be one of the last things on our mind about fixing this team. We need so much more, that I want to focus on other needs, and not worry about TE.

Unless a guy like Hernandez somehow falls into our lap in the 3rd, which isn't going to happen.

The value would have to be unbelievabel for us to draft a TE with all the other needs we have.

During the draft we can have a lot of things on our mind. We will have 11 picks and possibly more (free agent compensation/trades etc.) If we don't take a TE at some point I will be disappointed.

Read what I write. I said we have much bigger needs, but that doesn't mean we should ignore TE.

When I said Dinkins I meant Royal. I always get those 2 confused. When we did have Dinkins I think I actually called him Royal at times. Thanks for the pickup.

I am more than ok with Moore, Gaines (needs to be resigned), Estandia, Heiden (if healthy) and Royal in some some combination. We don't need depth. If we draft a TE it should be a stud, otherwise why? And I think we have too many other holes that are bigger and more important. Get a steal take it otherwise go in a different direction.

Hey, I agree. When I think of what held this team back this year... lack of a great TE isn't real high on the list.

Quote:

Read what I write. I said we have much bigger needs, but that doesn't mean we should ignore TE.

I read exactly what you wrote. You said do we rely on him without bringing anyone else in?

I answered yes. Unless the value of a TE in the draft is just unbelievable.

There is this magical thing called free agency you know.

Quote:

There is this magical thing called free agency you know.

Have you seen the free agent TE list? There's about 2 that I'm even midly interested in.

And besides. We're in the draft forum, talking about the draft. And I want no part of a TE in the draft, unless the value is unreal.

I think free agency will be extremely limited this off-season.

If we can get a guys like Anthony McCoy, Jimmy Graham, Colin Peek, Tony Moeaki, Dennis Pitta, or Ed Dickson later in the 3rd round or later I think it would be a great pick. Also, if guys like Jermaine Greshem, Aaron Hernandez, or Rob Gronkowski are available in the 2nd round I would give all of them serious consideration.

Tight end would be even more important if Manholmkert decides Quinn is going to be the quarterback. As we all know, he loves those short passes to the tight end. Although, Evan Moore did have some nice chemistry with Quinn in the few games they played together.

I have seen, and ranked every available TE.

Quote:

I am more than ok with Moore, Gaines (needs to be resigned), Estandia, Heiden (if healthy) and Royal in some some combination. We don't need depth. If we draft a TE it should be a stud, otherwise why? And I think we have too many other holes that are bigger and more important. Get a steal take it otherwise go in a different direction.

Yea, I agree with that.

Royal has had some decent, not great, seasons.His signing looked like a solid choice at the time. Royal may actually rebound and make us cheer for him.

But he did stink this past year.
Heiden has also had some decent seasons.
Moore looks like he can get open and make tough catches.
All are solid blockers.
I would not feel we need a TE unless Heiden retires and maybe not even then. Let Gaines and Estandia fight it out.

1. Heiden
2. Moore
3. Royal

I would not be uncomfortable with this. I'm also ASSuming that both Heiden and Royal return to past form and Moore is the real deal.

At the upcoming owners meeting they will discuss expanding the roster, the practice squad and how many players dress on game day.Having a TE prospect stashed on the PS could be an answer. If a project is available late,why not?

Why not?? I'll play....Browns 5 round:

1. Joe Haden CB

2. Jahvid Best RB

3. Koa Misi OLB

3. Selvish Capers OT

4. Jevan Sneed QB

5. John Jerry OG

5. Myron Lewis S

5. Freddie Barnes WR

That's actually a damn good mock. I have no idea who Koa Misi is however.

I would not complain.

Even the Sneed pick? I think he sucks, and will suck even harder in the pros. Rather not waste a pick on him.

Quote:

That's actually a damn good mock. I have no idea who Koa Misi is however.

Misi is a DE who projects to backer in a 3/4...high motor guy.

In the second I actually thought about Brandon Spikes, but I was afraid you specifically would call me a homer...LOL....it's not my fault both Haden and spikes are good.

Sneed....first, he doesn't suck....he is a project guy. No way he comes in and plays his first year, maybe even second....he does have a good arm and QB'd a pretty good team.

I would assume he would sit behind a vet QB not named Derrick or Brady.

If we are looking for a qb to play earlier, well, we have to draft one earlier.

Quote:

Even the Sneed pick? I think he sucks, and will suck even harder in the pros. Rather not waste a pick on him.

Ehh... if he's available in the 4th, why not? He has some tools to work with, but he's still a bit on the raw side. If Holmgren's boys can develop him into a starter, then we've struck gold. If not, we didn't invest all that much in him in the first place. I'd say go for it is he's available that late.

What Peen said. He has insane potential, he just needs to get his confidence back.

Quote:

Quote:

That's actually a damn good mock. I have no idea who Koa Misi is however.

Misi is a DE who projects to backer in a 3/4...high motor guy.

In the second I actually thought about Brandon Spikes, but I was afraid you specifically would call me a homer...LOL....it's not my fault both Haden and spikes are good.

I personally like Spikes and Haden. However I would be pissed if we drafted Dunlap or Tebow.

Granted I only saw him play a few times in college, but everytime I forget it was him and I thought I was watching John Parker Wilson. When watching him run through the drills on ESPN he was throwing wobblers all over the place. Seemed really inaccurate. Based on what I have seen of him, no thanks.

Try watching some of Misi. I'd much rather have him than Spikes.

Does he project to be better than Veikune, who is also a "high motor" guy?

Any mock draft where we take Jahvid Best I will be happy.

Quote:

Does he project to be better than Veikune, who is also a "high motor" guy?

The answer better be yes or he's UDFA material.

Peen..

My mock had us taking Haden in the first, and Spikes in the 2nd.. and I even considered putting Major Wright in there as a 4th round Safety.. but haven't really seen much of him.

Quote:

Peen..

My mock had us taking Haden in the first, and Spikes in the 2nd.. and I even considered putting Major Wright in there as a 4th round Safety.. but haven't really seen much of him.

If we do indeed pick Haden at number 7 at least we can always keep our eye out for Myron Rolle and Major Wright sometime in the next rounds. Of course, right now, I really want Rolle over wright because like you I haven't seen much of him.

Quote:

Peen..

My mock had us taking Haden in the first, and Spikes in the 2nd.. and I even considered putting Major Wright in there as a 4th round Safety.. but haven't really seen much of him.

I like Major.

My thinking is this....most of those guys later are about the same. I think Major is better than Lewis as an example, but not all that much better from a value standpoint. So, if I am going to select one late, I want one as late as I can go without ending up with total crap, and as I said, Lewis is a pretty good player.

I gave some thought to selecting Nate Allen at the top of the 2nd over Best, but when I looked at 5th round backs, I didn't see nearly the value as I would get going safety.....plus...I want some insurance for Harrison....actually, I would like Harrison as my insurance at RB when all is said and done.

I think Best can be one of the Best....I am not sold Harrison can hold up for 16 games while flashing what he flashed last season.

Here's my mock I posted on another site.

* Round 1, Pick# 7 - J. Haden CB Florida
Teams with E. Wright and solidifies CB position.
* Round 2, Pick# 6 - C. Jones S LSU
Need major influx of talent and youth. Should step in as starter. Don't see Pool returning.
* Round 3, Pick# 7 - C. Black
RT is in need of upgrade. Gives solid bookend opposite J. Thomas.
* Round 3, Pick# 28 - J. Cunningham DE/OLB Florida
Wimbley doesn't have the moves to be a consistent pass rusher.
* Round 4, Pick# 7 - B. Stull QB Pitt
Big reach here, but I feel that he will be a good stop-gap/back-up QB. Good accuracy and and can sell the play-action.
* Round 5, Pick# 3 - R. Johnson Utah FS
When the veteran WR on your team spends more time on defense than offense, you have major depth issues. Great value here.
* Round 5, Pick# 6 - A. Quarless TE Penn St.
Great talent, bad character. Worth taking a chance here.
* Round 5, Pick# 29 - D. Dickerson FB/HB/WR
Cribbs Jr. Doesn't have a real position, but is a football player and always makes a play.
* Round 6, Pick# 8 - E.J. Wilson DE UNC
Starting DE's are in their 30's. Time to start the youth movement. Not a pass rusher, but solid vs the run.
* Round 6, Pick# 17 - R. Stephens OG Iowa St.
Versatile G/C. Could develop into solid back-up.
* Round 7, Pick# 7 - M. Dodge P East Carolina
Zastudil has had injury issues the past couple of seasons. The writing is on the wall here.

i knew this looked familiar.. saw this on condraft.com.

I'll play too.

1. Anthony Davis - OT
2. Myron Rolle - S
3. Aaron Hernandez - TE
3. George Selvie - Tweener LB
4. Eric Decker - WR
5. Ciron Black - OT
5. Pat Angererererer - LB
5. Jonathan Crompton - QB

Pat Angererererer?
Er....Did your keyboard malfunction or did you make that up to see if we were paying attentioner?

Did Rolle look amazing at the senior bowl or something? I am just not understanding the love for this kid. He was a major letdown at FL State as a player, esp with how hyped he was coming in as a freshman from highschool. I would also question his passion for the game.

Quote:

Did Rolle look amazing at the senior bowl or something?

He supposedly looked good enough that his stock should rise a bit.

Quote:

Did Rolle look amazing at the senior bowl or something? I am just not understanding the love for this kid. He was a major letdown at FL State as a player, esp with how hyped he was coming in as a freshman from highschool. I would also question his passion for the game.

He was an ALL-AMERICAN! A dissappointment? GMAB ADMVP. Have you gone off your meds today or something?

Quote:

I would also question his passion for the game.

Because he's smart? Because he can put together a couple coherent sentences? Because he has more to his life away from football than guns and ho's?

Quote:

He was an ALL-AMERICAN! A dissappointment? GMAB ADMVP. Have you gone off your meds today or something?

He was a THIRD yes 3rd! team all american and second team in the ACC ONE year. Not exactly as great as you make it out to be. With the hype that surrounded the kid coming into college he should have been 1st team.

Also after his final season looking at draft boards and experts he was graded as a 5th round pick, hardly worthy of a 3 round upgrade because he did well in the senior bowl and is a media hype storm. The kid doesnt have the play to back up 2nd rd grade PERIOD. If hes there in the 4th, sure take a flyer on him. Everyone on here is jumping on the media hype machine and fail to realize that his play doesnt back up drafting him in the top 3 rounds. Even Kiper/Shay/Wright all say so (the top 3 scouts) and Jeremy Green (Scouts, Inc Director, ex pro player personel for the Browns BTW!) dont see the play/ability to back up taking him before the 4th.

As far as his passion, I say that because he went away from the game, and might have bigger issues other than football on his plate. Your talking about an incredibily gifted person, and he has even stated he wants to be a doctor. That might be a major passion of his and each team will have to do their research before they invest on a player who may not want to play in 3 seasons.

I agree with him for the most part. Rolle was a disappointment on the field, and is in no way good enough to be a 1st or 2nd rounder.

I also agree. But, if you can get a player with his work ethic and character in the 3rd round or later, I think you have to do it. At worst he is an excellent backup/special teamer.

Sorry you dont draft STers, you pick them up as an UDFA. Also drafting a guy in the third rd and saying his "work ethic" he can be an awesome backup would be short of moronic. You draft starters in the first 3 rounds of the draft at min. ESP on a team as woeful in the talent department as the browns.

Quote:

Sorry you dont draft STers, you pick them up as an UDFA

Really, That's where most teams draft their ST's. 4TH round & down.

Any help you can get with 4th & down At All...Is gold to any team.

then tell me how out of a 53 man roster with an avg of 7 plyers in the draft where we get all of our starters if we only get starters in the first 3 rounds?

Between FA & a few UDFA, and years of drafting. Once youve been established as most teams have been for years, most teams now cut players they drafted in the 4th or lower. I don't think you can name many teams that have relied on ANY lower rd draft pick to pan out. You could argue "US" but hopfully that will change with MH.

Quote:

then tell me how out of a 53 man roster with an avg of 7 plyers in the draft where we get all of our starters if we only get starters in the first 3 rounds?

It's not about that, it's about expectations... you EXPECT to get solid starters in rounds 1-3... 4 is sort of a gray area... but if you draft somebody in 5 or below that turns out to be a quality starter, then you got a little lucky, if he turns out to be a depth player who contributes on special teams, then that was a successful pick in my opinion.

rounds 1-3 = 3 new starters per yer out of 22 starters.

That equates to the ability to do a full turnover of your starters every 7 years. Very doable given how long you should expect to keep someone of starter quality.

Then you occassionally strike gold in a lower round, and bring in the occassional free agent.

It isn't difficult if you can just get 1-3 to matter every single April.

Quote:

rounds 1-3 = 3 new starters per yer out of 22 starters.

That equates to the ability to do a full turnover of your starters every 7 years. Very doable given how long you should expect to keep someone of starter quality.

Then you occassionally strike gold in a lower round, and bring in the occassional free agent.

It isn't difficult if you can just get 1-3 to matter every single April.

Sounds good, but a little ambitious IMO. Maybe two solid starters a draft is more the norm(it may not even be that good).

Quote:

rounds 1-3 = 3 new starters per yer out of 22 starters.

That equates to the ability to do a full turnover of your starters every 7 years. Very doable given how long you should expect to keep someone of starter quality.

Then you occassionally strike gold in a lower round, and bring in the occassional free agent.

It isn't difficult if you can just get 1-3 to matter every single April.

Plus you could throw in 1-2 solid contributors in FA

It's almost like drafting is a chess match.. you have to think about 5 + moves ahead while still thinking of the here and now to really be good at it.

Quote:

It's almost like drafting is a chess match.. you have to think about 5 + moves ahead while still thinking of the here and now to really be good at it.

But it is a bit like poker.....you have to be a bit lucky when and where the cards are thrown.

As skillful as you might be, it is still largely a game of luck.

One guy/team screws up and you hit the jackpot.

Quote:

One guy/team screws up and you hit the jackpot.

Or you just blindly throw a dart and it hits the bullseye.

it's a little of both. You obviously have to have some training, and you also need some plain old luck.

Some of these picks may be overly optimistic - I tried to use players in the near-range of that pick, based on CBS Sports' and Draft-Tek's big boards. So here goes my first try at one of these:

1. Joe Haden, CB, Fla.
2. Golden Tate, WR, ND
3a. Toby Gerhart, RB, Stanford
3b. Jason Fox, OT, Miami
4. George Selvie, OLB/DE, Miami
5a. Darrell Stuckey, SS/FS, Kansas
5b. John Jerry, G, Miss.
5c. Andrew Quarless, TE, PSU
6a. Myron Rolle, SS/FS, Fla St
6b. Donald Butler, ILB, Wash.
7. Mike Kafka, QB, Northwestern

The Kafka pick is interesting. NFLDraftCountdown.com has him as the #15 Qb but hasn't done a breakdown of him yet. I remember seeing a NW game or 2 this past year and was impressed. I didn't "scout" him so not a lot of specifics but I really liked how he threw the ball. I sort of remember the Buckeyes being a little afraid of the guy a few years ago (2007) but he was coming back from an injury or something. Not sure.

Any of you Chicago boys get a good look at him and formulate an opinion? Did NW run one of those gimmicky offenses?

Draft sites I read talked about his accuracy and smarts (not too many dummies at Northwestern). Negatives are questions re: arm strength and adapting to a pro style offense - they ran a spread at NW. One site said he adapted very well at the East-West Shrine game to taking the snap from under center, and showed very good footwork considering his newness to dropbacks. I was impressed by his game vs OSU and also in their Bowl game, but thats all I've seen of him. Love the name, though ... is very Kafka-esque, which, as I understand it means nightmarishly complex, bizarre, and illogical. Perfect for the Browns, wouldn't you say?

More specifically, perfect for a Browns Qb

Quote:

Some of these picks may be overly optimistic - I tried to use players in the near-range of that pick, based on CBS Sports' and Draft-Tek's big boards. So here goes my first try at one of these:

1. Joe Haden, CB, Fla.
2. Golden Tate, WR, ND
3a. Toby Gerhart, RB, Stanford
3b. Jason Fox, OT, Miami
4. George Selvie, OLB/DE, Miami
5a. Darrell Stuckey, SS/FS, Kansas
5b. John Jerry, G, Miss.
5c. Andrew Quarless, TE, PSU
6a. Myron Rolle, SS/FS, Fla St
6b. Donald Butler, ILB, Wash.
7. Mike Kafka, QB, Northwestern

Would be ecstatic for that draft. But I think we'd be pretty lucky to have it happen...especially for Rolle. I bet the combine shoots him up into 2nd round territory.

If we could actually get all those guys that late (Tate, Selvie, Jerry, Stuckey, Rolle) I would be extremely pleased.

Personally, I'm not as high on Gerhart as most but I haven't seen him play a whole lot. Also, Fox seems to me to be a better fit at LT than RT, but if we do indeed go WCO then I think those differences diminish.

I've just started ranking the prospects, but let's give it a go:

1) Joe Haden, CB, Florida
2) Nate Allen, FS, USF
3) Anthony Dixon, RB, Miss. St.
3) Roddrick Muckelroy, OLB, Texas
4) Dan Lefevour, QB, Central MI
5) Dezmon Briscoe, WR, Kansas
5) Adam Ulatoski, T, Texas
5) Dennis Pitta, TE, BYU
6) Lee Campbell, ILB, MINN
6) Zane Beadles, OG, Utah
7) Doug Worthington, DE, Ohio State

It'll be interesting to see how these guys measure up at the combine and their respective pro days.

that is a fantastic mock...one of my favorites I have seen here.

If Pitta falls to the 5th.. I'd love the pick..

Don Bank's mock draft has us taking Joe Haden at #7. With Eric Berry still available. His reasoning is this, "From a value standpoint, landing the draft's best cover cornerback should trump getting the draft's impact safety."

I guess it makes a little sense. But I think we are at the point right now where we take the best player available, no matter what position the guy plays. With that said, I will be pretty upset if Berry is available to us and we don't take him. The only thing I would like more than Berry at #7 is trading down.

I understand how guys like Revis can impact your D. However guys like Ed Reed and Troy Polamalu can also greatly impact a defense. I want Berry if he slips, no questions asked.

If Berry is there and we pass on him, unless Berry has had a recent amputation, somebody needs to be shot.

give Don Banks credit for one thing. He says that the Browns have multiple options, all of them being good. And does not mention QB as one of those options.

Quote:

If Berry is there and we pass on him, unless Berry has had a recent amputation, somebody needs to be shot.

I volunteer to be the sniper.

Quote:

that is a fantastic mock...one of my favorites I have seen here.

Wait till I do mine..I've been very close in the past few years ..especially when I learn whom the Browns are targeting..

Here's Picks 1-10 of my mock draft...

This is my mock/wish list

Browns 2010 Picks
1-7 Cleveland (5-11) Eric Berry-S-Tennessee
2-6 Cleveland (5-11) Brandon Spikes-ILB-Florida
3-7 Cleveland (5-11) Toby Gerhart-RB- Stanford
3-28 Cleveland (5-11)(From Jets) Arthur Jones-DE-Syracuse
4-7 Cleveland (5-11) Akwasi Owusu-Ansah-CB-Indiana PA
5-3 Cleveland (5-11)(From Tampa) Blair White-WR-Michigan State
5-6 Cleveland (5-11) Ed ...-OT-Virginia Tech
5-29 Cleveland (5-11)(From Jets) Jimmy Graham-TE-Miami(Fla)
6-8 Cleveland (5-11) Kavell Conner-OLB-Clemson
6-19 Cleveland (5-11)(From Carolina) Mike Tepper-OT-California
7-7 Cleveland (5-11) Jeff Owens-NT-Georgia

Well, you won't be looking down the barrell of an M-16,....

(not really a good sniper weapon anyway,....)

I would love to have Brandon Spikes. He could sack Roethlisberger, then while on the ground he can blind him by poking him in the eye.

Quote:

I would love to have Brandon Spikes. He could sack Roethlisberger, then while on the ground he can blind him by poking him in the eye.

I wouldn't mind drafting Spikes in the 2nd round either. It'd be nice to have someone with an attitude on defense.

No problem with him bringing "The Attitude," as long as he doesn't cross the line.

Not trying to start anything, but if he isn't at Florida (or ANY other big school), he sits for a year,....

Anyone other than Barton is an upgrade.

He must have Mangini-acceptable locker room qualities or something,....he made some good plays, but,....I agree, he ain't no first-liner.

Which would people rather have Rolando McClain at #7 with a 2nd round corner Joe Haden with Brandon Spikes in the 2nd? I think I'd take the Haden/Spikes combo.

I think we'd all take Berry and anybody over anything else though, right?

Quote:

Which would people rather have Rolando McClain at #7 with a 2nd round corner Joe Haden with Brandon Spikes in the 2nd? I think I'd take the Haden/Spikes combo.

I think we'd all take Berry and anybody over anything else though, right?

I would be happy with either of those. Since Rob Ryan likes to blitz more, I would lean towards Haden/Spikes, but only a little.

Quote:

Which would people rather have Rolando McClain at #7 with a 2nd round corner Joe Haden with Brandon Spikes in the 2nd? I think I'd take the Haden/Spikes combo.

I think we'd all take Berry and anybody over anything else though, right?

To answer that, I want to know if I think better Safety play would improve our current LB situation and overall D play, or do I think better LB'ing improves us more,...??

I want Berry, at the expense of McClain--and he is an absolute beast,...

Tough, tough choice.

If Eric Berry is there at 7, I'll be crapping my pants. We have to pull the trigger on him. The guy has all the tools, reminds me of Ed Reed.

Would you pass on anybody who is likened to Ed Reed? He more than likely will be gone, unless St. Louis takes a QB like they are mentioning, and things can change up in a hurry.

My Browns mock would look something like this:

1. Joe Haden, CB Florida (Eric Berry if available!!!)
2. Ryan Matthews, RB Fresno St.
3. Dan LeFevour, QB Central Michigan
3. Dexter McCluster, WR (Ole Miss)

I see mocks with Tebow dropping to mid 3rd round..... the guy has work to do, but he's a winner. I'd have no qualms with us picking him up there.

Quote:

If Eric Berry is there at 7, I'll be crapping my pants.

Just in case he is, I'd like to avoid being in the same room with you,, where are you going to be on Draft day

Quote:

If Eric Berry is there at 7, I'll be crapping my pants. We have to pull the trigger on him. The guy has all the tools, reminds me of Ed Reed.

Would you pass on anybody who is likened to Ed Reed? He more than likely will be gone, unless St. Louis takes a QB like they are mentioning, and things can change up in a hurry.

My Browns mock would look something like this:

1. Joe Haden, CB Florida (Eric Berry if available!!!)
2. Ryan Matthews, RB Fresno St.
3. Dan LeFevour, QB Central Michigan
3. Dexter McCluster, WR (Ole Miss)

I see mocks with Tebow dropping to mid 3rd round..... the guy has work to do, but he's a winner. I'd have no qualms with us picking him up there.

I would throw up if those are our first 4 picks. I like the Haden/Berry pick, the rest....

No RT, no more help on defense....

Quote:

Quote:

If Eric Berry is there at 7, I'll be crapping my pants.

Just in case he is, I'd like to avoid being in the same room with you,, where are you going to be on Draft day

if he is there... at least we won't have to worry about trading down a spot so another team can pick him and only and get a late round pick out of it.

BPA....

Oh and Daman.....I'll be at my house.....wherever that may be since it's up for sale right now.

I'll have to go to the store that day to pick up some "Oops I Crapped My Pants" adult diapers.

Please post the address when you know it,, I want to avoid that place

With 017 crapping himself and you throwing up, I think I'm just going to watch draft day by myself.

Well, let's just be glad that other bodily functions have not yet been spoken for. Frankly, that visual would likely send me over the edge.

Quote:

Well, let's just be glad that other bodily functions have not yet been spoken for. Frankly, that visual would likely send me over the edge.

Que Andy Samberg.

"The Browns picked Eric Berry at 7 and I ...... .. .. ....."

Top 7 Picks:
St. Louis: SAM BRADFORD
The Closer and Closer we get to the draft the better Bradford looks. With the investments in Carriker (sp) and Long I don't know how they can justify passing on Bradford for another defensive lineman especially with the way their QB situation played out..I mean by the end of the year they were using Kyle freaking Boller as their starting QB.

Detriot Lions: NDAMUKONG SUH
Well the Lions are giddy that the Rams passed on Suh. They have a young QB and could use an offensive lineman but I think Suh was so dominant that its hard for any team to pass on him. With Schwartz's background on the defensive side of the ball I think it is too hard for him to pass up Suh.

Tampa Bay Buccs: GERALD MCCOY
I think McCoy has better penetration than Suh but Suh is a better run stuffer. I honestly think the Buccs would be happy with either. The bucs were their best when they had a dominant defense lead by Warren Sapp. The Bucs hope McCoy can be their new verision of Sapp.

Washington Redskins: RUSSELL OKUNG
I agree with toad that given enough tools Campbell could be a good QB. However, if you watched a Redskin game last year you saw how terrible their line blocked. Campbell is in danger of developing the David Carr syndrome if the Redskins do not address their pass blocking. Shanahan always seemed to have a good line in Denver and uses his first pick to start building one in washington.

Kansas City Chiefs: BRYAN BULAGA
Pioli made a big investment in Matt Cassel and needs to make his large investment look good. Bulaga is a smart, tough football player as are most Hawkeyes. It's known that Pioli and Kirk F. are friends and I'm sure Kirk F. will give Pioli the lowdown on Bulaga.

Seattle Seahawks: Jimmy Clausen
With the age of Hasselback and a new coach it seems like the Seahawks will be drafting a QB. I don't think Carrol would have a problem with a egotistical QB as lot of his USC players were also. Carrol also scouted and schemed for him 3 years and would most likely be familiar with him. How ironic a USC coach, coaching a ND QB.

Cleveland Browns: ERIC Berry
Honestly I would prefer Sam Bradford. I would even trade up for Sam Bradford (Maybe 1 or both of our 3rd draft picks)Sam Bradford is the perfect WCO QB. If you would draw up a prototype WCO QB Sam Bradford would be it. Our offense needs a QB and it's too bad Bradford most likely won't be available.

With that said Eric Berry is one heck of a consolation prize.Eric Berry has a chance to become our version of Ed Reed and let us begin building a good defense.

After that I could care less:
2nd round I hope we draft a pass rusher or a RT.

I've been hearing that Detroit is going to take Okung. - They are trying to take better care of Stafford.

I highly doubt it. He would be a huge reach with McCoy/Suh on the board. If they wanted to protect Stafford so much, they would have taken Oher instead of Pettigrew last year. Where did you hear that?

I've heard those reports as well on NFL Network... that they are inching towards getting a "great" LT, and THEN draft other positions..

As some say.. it's hard to pass up on franchise QB's and franchise LT's. They have one, and now need the other.

Quote:

I've been hearing that Detroit is going to take Okung. - They are trying to take better care of Stafford.

If that happens there is a slight chance that McCoy could slip to us
Rams Bradford
Lions Okung
Buccs Suh
Redskin Bugala/ Davis/Bruce Campbell
Chiefs Eric Berry
Seahawks Clausen
Browns McCoy or Haden

the chiefs or seahawks would take him. most likely the chiefs.

I've been hearing that Detroit is going to take Okung. - They are trying to take better care of Stafford

A month away from the draft and you believe that?
They will say anything to either sell the pick or fool someone ..

Quote:

I've been hearing that Detroit is going to take Okung. - They are trying to take better care of Stafford

A month away from the draft and you believe that?
They will say anything to either sell the pick or fool someone ..

or draft another WR

Quote:

or draft another WR

Charles Rogers, Roy Williams, Mike Williams, Calvin Johnson. - At least one of 'em worked out.

I'd say two worked out as they got a major haul for Roy Williams (they got first, third, and sixth round picks for him).

The Browns have been awarded 2 compensatory picks according to this listing.

http://nfl.draftsite.com/

Taking into account the Corey Williams trade, the Browns picks look like this.

Rd. Overall Acquired from

1 7 Our Pick
2 38 Our Pick
3 72 Our Pick
3 93 Jets (Braylon)
4 106 Our Pick
5 136 Tampa (Winslow)
5 139 Our Pick
5 148 Denver thru Detroit ( Williams)
5 162 Jets (Braylon)
6 180 Our Pick
6 189 Carolina (L Leonard)
6 205 Compensatory
7 218 Our Pick Traded Away with C Williams
7 247 Compensatory

So basically, we have 13 picks in this draft.. wow..

Compensatory picks haven't been announced yet. That site is just guessing. Compensatory picks are announced at the annual meeting, which is March 21-24 this year.

Comp. picks haven't been announced yet.

I think that site is projecting that we will get two compensatory picks.

And let's not forget that you can't trade compensatory picks. Not that we don't have enough other picks to trade around.

Quote:

I think that site is projecting that we will get two compensatory picks.

Crap you're all right

Right, we can't trade the compensatory picks. But we can trade the picks we do have if we are awarded some.

The only player I can see us getting one for is Andra Davis. Sean Jones didn't start enough games.

Here's how Wikipedia explains compensatory picks...

Quote:

In addition to the 32 picks in each round, there are a total of 32 picks awarded at the ends of Rounds 3 through 7. These picks, known as "compensatory picks," are awarded to teams that have lost more qualifying free agents than they gained the previous year in free agency. Teams that gain and lose the same number of players but lose higher-valued players than they gain also can be awarded a pick, but only in the seventh round, after the other compensatory picks. Compensatory picks cannot be traded, and the placement of the picks is determined by a proprietary formula based on the player's salary, playing time, and postseason honors with his new team, with salary being the primary factor. So, for example, a team that lost a linebacker who signed for $2.5 million per year in free agency might get a sixth-round compensatory pick, while a team that lost a wide receiver who signed for $5 million per year might receive a fourth-round pick.

If fewer than 32 such picks are awarded, the remaining picks are awarded in the order in which teams would pick in a hypothetical eighth round of the draft (These are known as "supplemental compensatory selections").

Compensatory picks are awarded each year at the NFL annual meeting which is held at the end of March; typically, about three or four weeks before the draft.

ok here is my version 1 i will update in 2 weeks as more trades and signings might happen but this is as of trades as of today 3-9 I believe we will have two comp picks but they arent awarded yet do I wont pick them till they are......

first name is who I think we will pick second name is my back up here we go

1) ERIC BERRY,S,TENNESSEE------ JOE HADEN,CB,FLA
2)TIM TEBOW,QB,FLORIDA----BRANDON SPIKES,ILB,FLORIDA
3)SERGIO KINDLE,DE,TEXAS----JOHN ASAMOAH,OG,ILLINOIS
3)TOBY GERHART,RB,STANFORD----JORDAN SHIPLEY,WR,TEXAS
4)GENO ATKINS,DT,GEORGIA----PARRISH COX,CB,OKLAHOMA STATE
5)O'BRIEN SCHOFEILD,DT,WISC----VAN ESKRIDGE,S,EAST CAROLINA
5)BEN TATE,RB,AUBRUN----CARLTON MITCHEL,WR,SOUTH FLA
5)CRIS SCOTT,OT,TENNESSEE----BRIAN JACKSON,CB,OAKLAHOMA
5)ROD MUCKELROY,OLB,TEXAS----NATE COLLINS,DT,VIRGINA
6)ANTIONIO BROWN,WR,CENTRAL MICH---- ED ...,OT,VIRG TECH
6)JOHN FLETCHER,DT,WYOMING----CAM THOMAS,DT,NORTH CAROLINA

THERE YOU GO VERSION 1

Tebow and Gerhart?!?!...Sorry I just threw up a little in my mouth.

Don't know if you knwo this or not, but O'Brien Schofield tore his ACL during Senior Bowl practice.

Even with that, I wouldn't mind if we took a late round flier on him as he will be ready to go at full strength in 2011.

NO i didn;t know that ok take out obrien and put in eric olsen,oc,notre dame

why they were both heisman trophy finalists this year both have winning records and both have awards what makes them so bad??

J/C

Updating my mock based on recent movements giving more players I like at our spots.

I only take players that are available at our spots based on: http://walterfootball.com/draft2010.php

1 – Eric Berry, S, Tenn (alternate: Joe Haden, CB Florida)
2 – Brandon Ghee, CB, Wake (alternate: Nate Allen, FS USF)
3a – Colt McCoy, QB, Tx (alternate: Alex Carrington, DE, Arkansas State) –
3b – Anthony Dixon, RB, Miss State (alternate: Donovan Warren, CB, Michigan)
4 – Mike Johnson, OG, Bama (alternate: Jason Fox, OT Miami)

Rounds 5-7 not mocked yet here.

Reasoning:

1 - If Berry is available, he has too much value to think of anyone else.

2 - There are very good CBs and Ss available to us in the first 2 rounds. I think we grab the BPA of each in them.

3a - I am not a huge Colt supporter in the NFL, but he has too much value in the 3rd round to pass up. He's bigger than most give him credit for and he is very accurate.

3b - tough choice between Gerhart and Dixon here. Both are the bruising RB we need. Flip a coin.

4 - we need RT more than RG, but Mike Johnson is so much better than Fox that I couldn't pass him up. I doubt he is still there in the 4th, but abiding by my ruleset, he is there.

Did the Pashos signing factor into your draft?

People are saying he would be "average" RT or even RG.

Quote:

Did the Pashos signing factor into your draft?

yes, in that I didn't really consider drafting more than 1 OL in those rounds.

i'd rather draft a RT, but Mike Johnson is so good that there's no way I pass him up in the 4th round.

If he's that good, how's he going to last until Four ?

he won't (he won't likely at least)

walter football is usually better than that, but i've always used them as my baseline and i'm too stubborn to find a different one.

that's part of the reason I put in the 'alternate'. With Fox's injury history, he could last to the 4th round.

Plus he is a guard. Guards usually slide.

that is true. i think he's the 2nd best OG though, which is why I doubt he lasts to round4.

He also might slide becaus eof his measurables.

He has short arms, he runs slow and he didn't have a very good broad jump which mean he probably doesn't have alot of explosion out of his stance but that can be worked on.

But all of that means absolutely nothing when you pop the tape in. The kid can flat out play. I've been pimping him for a while now and on my mock I did before the combine I had us taking him in the third. Theres a possibility he could be had in the 4th with his poor showing at the combine.

Pouncey, John Jerry and Iupati would all have to be ranked above him right? Or is Pouncey strictly considered a center?

Definitely. I'd also add in Rodger Saffold.

Quote:

Pouncey, John Jerry and Iupati would all have to be ranked above him right? Or is Pouncey strictly considered a center?

playing against the same teams this year, i thought mike did better than jerry (and petrus from arkansas).

i thought pouncey was being heralded strictly as a OC. that would be a tough call, but I think his value at center makes a team draft him there.

Deep, I've seen most scouting reports say that Saffold has LT potential. So, I was not considering him. I think I'd still lean Mike Johnson though it's tough to project the position switch for me.

another not mentioned I have seen higher on some boards is Asamoah from Illinois. but, he couldn't even make 1st team Big10 and it's not like Illinois had an overpowering running game with him (though I've only seen Illini twice last year and didn't focus on him so I can't be sure).

--------------------

anyways, thanks to all for the hope that maybe I was being pessimistic with Mike Johnson falling that far. i would be very, very happy if we drafted him in the 4th round. the guy can play.

Yep,...most good centers could make the switch to guard. The converse wouldn't be so acceptable, methinks.

Let's just assume you took Pouncey (whatever one of the two it is,...?) who can play center and made him that RG,....there you have not only filled that gaping hole, but backed up your future All-Pro in Mack.

AND restituted in losing Hank with a much younger, capable player.

This would not be a "terrible" move. And you guys all know how I feel about gettig this OLine up to snuff.

Quote:

2010 NFL Mock Draft, Version 8.0 11th March, 2010 - 11:57 am Jeff Risdon/RealGM -
Round 1

1. St. Louis Rams: Sam Bradford, QB, Oklahoma.

Just thinking out loud here...Either the Rams decide he’s the franchise QB they need and take him, or else the Redskins like Bradford enough and are nervous enough that STL will take him that they deal up to get him. Would #4 overall, Jason Campbell, and a 2nd next year get it done?

2. Detroit Lions: Ndamukong Suh, DT, Nebraska.

I get a different answer every day as to which DT the Lions prefer--McCoy or Suh. There is an emerging school of thought that the team would like to slide back a few spots and take an offensive tackle, but I’m not buying it. Yet.

3. Tampa Bay Buccaneers: Gerald McCoy, DT, Oklahoma.

Easiest pick in the draft to forecast: it’s either Suh or McCoy, whichever doesn’t go at #2. If they’re both somehow gone, it’s Eric Berry time.

4. Washington Redskins: Russell Okung, T, Oklahoma State.

I get the sense they’re not enamored enough with Jimmy Clausen to take him here, certainly not when they have no idea who will be playing at either tackle spot. Okung would have been the 5th-best tackle last year, but he’s the best in this lower-ceiling-but-much-deeper tackle class.

5. Kansas City Chiefs: Eric Berry, S/CB, Tennessee.

They need playmakers all over the field, and Berry is a dynamic secondary presence with versatility and a flair for the dramatic. He will sit atop some teams’ overall draft boards.

6. Seattle Seahawks: C.J. Spiller, RB, Clemson.

New coach Pete Carroll gets his answer for Reggie Bush, only Spiller has shown he’s more consistently tough between the tackles. His speed and playmaking potential are simply too good for him to fall, and the Seahawks need a big infusion of both on their offense.

7. Cleveland Browns: Jimmy Clausen, QB, Notre Dame.

Thinking out loud, part two...In trading for Seneca Wallace, new GM Mike Holmgren brought in a veteran mentor that can teach his offense to a rookie QB, and Clausen comes from a pro-style offense and has the rhythm and touch that are requisites. Brady Quinn still has some trade value and potential, but he’s clearly not the choice of Holmgren or coach Mangini, and Clausen helps close the door on the Phil Savage era. Or they trade for Troy Smith and take Joe Haden here...

39. Cleveland Browns: Dominique Franks, CB, Oklahoma
72. Cleveland Browns: Jermaine Gresham, TE, Oklahoma
103. Cleveland Browns: Chris Cook, CB/S, Virginia

web page

I don't know about those other three picks, but if we got Greshem with the 72nd pick I would be extremely excited.

But I think there is a 0% chance of that happening.

Agreed, but thought that it was interesting. Esp considering its coming from realgm.com.

Quote:

7. Cleveland Browns: Jimmy Clausen, QB, Notre Dame.

Thinking out loud, part two...In trading for Seneca Wallace, new GM Mike Holmgren brought in a veteran mentor that can teach his offense to a rookie QB, and Clausen comes from a pro-style offense and has the rhythm and touch that are requisites. Brady Quinn still has some trade value and potential, but he’s clearly not the choice of Holmgren or coach Mangini, and Clausen helps close the door on the Phil Savage era. Or they trade for Troy Smith and take Joe Haden here...

39. Cleveland Browns: Dominique Franks, CB, Oklahoma
72. Cleveland Browns: Jermaine Gresham, TE, Oklahoma
103. Cleveland Browns: Chris Cook, CB/S, Virginia

Very unimpressed with this draft......But Gresham at 72 would be robbery, that guy can play.

Quote:

Let's just assume you took Pouncey (whatever one of the two it is,...?) who can play center and made him that RG,....there you have not only filled that gaping hole, but backed up your future All-Pro in Mack.

yes, but you have to pay a pretty big premium to get Pouncey. We'd probably have to use our 2nd round pick rather than our 4th round pick to get a RG.

I can't wait to see our complete 7 round mock drafts. How can you properly predict 12 picks (come on lucky 13, Andra Davis compensatory pick!).