The rules are simple. Pick one guy in the 2010 NFL draft who you think is a "Must have." Try to be realistic.
Explain in detail:
1. Players name, position, school, size 2. Positives of him 3. Negatives of him 4. What round you think he will be available 5. Post a highlight video of him if available
I'll go first
Damian Williams WR, USC 6'1, 210 LBS
Positives: Ran a west coast offense at USC. Could easily be a #1 WR. He has good agility. He has a rare big play ability in him. He's the best route runner in this year's class. Can create seperation. Very elusive and tough.
Negatives: Needs to play more physical with the ball in the air. Has had some injury problems. Average speed. Needs to get stronger.
Okay, I'll go with a UK guy who I think could really help this team...
1. Trevard Lindley, CB- Kentucky.... 6'0 175 lbs
2. Positives- Good speed and very good in press coverage. Quick break on the ball, and a very good tackler.
3. Negatives- Struggles against the run at times, and needs to add some weight. Bigger physical WR's like an Andre Johnson could give him trouble if he doesn't bulk up.
4. An injury in his senior season probably dropped Lindley from a Top 15 pick, to where he could be available in the 2nd round. If he's available in the 2nd, and we haven't taken Haden in the 1st, I'd love to take Lindley in the 2nd.
I have been thinking about Williams a lot in round 2 also. But I don't think he'll be there........... He might be the second guy taken after Dez Bryant.
He seems like a very confident guy, and from the skills challenge i saw during superbowl week, he looked very athletic. 40 time only means so much, and he seems taller than 6'1 or at least he should be able to get some decent UPs.
He'd fit in very well here with Massaquoi and Stuckey/Robiskie in the slot.
Someone said earlier that they thought our receivers got open this year but our QB wouldn't hit them. Well I dissagree, I didn't think our receivers did a great job at getting open. And it looks like Williams might be able to get some seperation on NFL corners which is essential if you want to be an NFL receiver.
But yeah, as I said, he's probably going at the end of the 1st round or early 2nd. And this team has a lot of needs that could be filled.
Lets also remember that we're getting MoMass and Robiskie in their 2nd season + Stuckey will be here a full training camp. Whether receiver is upgraded or not in the draft, I expect to see a better performance out of this group
Here's my guy. He's going to be a lethal change of pace guy in the NFL at RB. Perfect WCO threat. He's a highlight waiting to happen:
And here's a previous post on him concerning scouting and their sometimes wacky rankings.....
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Just a question.
How do you explain Chris Johnson, mid January, being a third or fourth rounder even after his amazing 2007 Aloha Bowl performance? He wasn't even invited to the Senior Bowl in December.
I was in attendance. I had free tix due to Hawaii not being bowl eligible and they gave plenty out to UH supporters to fill the seats.
What I saw with my own eyes was a dynamic runner. Who ran away from everyone. And he wasn't given the time of day by any scout. Once he ran his 4.24 then people poured over his tape and he was drafted in the first round. I couldn't believe that it just wasn't obvious from the start. My own opinion is that there are very few people with actual opinions and then there are sycophantic others that just echo the few.
Scouts can be awfully wrong.
Case in point this year is Dexter McCluster. Same thought too. And that was I want that guy on my team no matter the cost. Right now I look on the draft sites and all I see is how much these scouts hate the guy. Like your boy Scott Wright.
Here's every touch from the Tennessee game this year which I watched wire to wire. And it was one of the most impressive performances I've ever seen against a defense with NFL athletes. They had no chance of stopping him.
What am I missing? Tell me why Dexter McCluster's amazing skills wouldn't transcend to the NFL. And tell me why Cleveland shouldn't draft him. I've never seen such quick hip shift, coupled with immediate burst and breakaway speed.
The guy is in the SEC. For a team that was ranked in the Top 5 this year.
calling Ole Miss a top5 team is funny....yes, they started the year there....then everyone saw them play
that said, McCluster has a similar skillset to Steve Slaton and Reggie Bush. if he can stay healthy (always a worry with RBs big and small), then he should be a pretty good back
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I am going to start off with a RB as well.....but going to go with a lesser known we can get a little bit later
if we can get Mathews with our second 3rd round pick or in the 4th round, he would be a steal. he is extremely explosive and has good vision with a little more size than some of the other backs.
he likely needs to work on his pass blocking and receiving as he was their 'run' RB and they had a 'pass' RB that came in on passing downs.
I think 4th or 5th round as a player to develop after we get Eric Berry in the 1st. Ha ha ha....ok, we're not getting Berry. But I'd like to keep Barry in the discussion as another safety, not the #1 guy drafted there but I think we need more than one anyway.
Positives: the guy can catch (something our Browns struggle to do) Negatives: I suppose he's short, didn't play for a top tier team, is probably slow, didn't play for a top tier team, doesn't run good routes, didn't play for a top tier team, can't block, didn't play for a top tier team, etc.
Availability? Probably 4 round or lower - probably lower.
Upside? Not much money invested in a guy that can catch. (and, he played 45 miles from my house - maybe 50)
I think 4th or 5th round as a player to develop after we get Eric Berry in the 1st. Ha ha ha....ok, we're not getting Berry. But I'd like to keep Barry in the discussion as another safety, not the #1 guy drafted there but I think we need more than one anyway.
+1. I had Church in my mock draft...seems like a solid prospect.
Bruce Campbell, OT, Maryland, 6'7" and 310 lbs Positives - Amazing athlete, strong and relatively quick. Great pass blocker. Currently ranked as the #5 OT in the draft. Probably better than Jared Gaither was when he went in the supplemental draft last year.
Negatives - Has missed a few games due to injury, still developing as a run blocker, only a junior with 17 NCAA starts.
Projected in the late first, if he's there when we pick early in round 2, take him.
This is the only video I could find and it's minimal.. it's all from one game and the best part is that on about the 5th play of his highlight video he grabs a guy, drags him to the ground and gets called for holding. web page
Pro's- Good technique, long arms, great pass protector, above average run blocker. Extremely smart player and has experience at both tackle and guard.
Cons- isn't very agile, a bit slow and needs to hit the weight room
I watched a few games of him this year and I think he plays an integral part of Ingram's production. I especially noticed him in the championship game because I really keyed in on him. He held his ground all game long and looked to be pretty dominant. He was never pushed in the backfield and quite a few times I seen him getting to the second level clearing the way. He also seemed to be pretty good at switching off blocks and picking up the blitz.
He can be had anywhere from the 3rd round to the 4th round as it stands right now but if he really comes out and puts on a show at the combine he could go mid to late second. He's definately a guard in my mind that has a ton of upside and could turn out to be a future pro-bowler.
Oh and I forgot, the guy has never missed a game in his entire college career.
Mike Johnson looked dominant in the 3 Bama games I saw this year....VaTech, Florida and TX. If he can look dominant against those defenses, I'll take my chances on him panning out in the NFL.
1. Zac Robinson, QB, Oklahoma St, 6'3" 218# 2. Very mobile, good arm, good accuracy 3. Had a bad senior season (some say it was an early injury), arm strength not elite, ran the spread 4. Projected round 4-6 5. Highlight video (could only find something from his 2007 season.. 08 was his best)
finally, everyone sees the sucker punch...which I still say was not the worst part of that evening. the sucker punch is forgiveable......losing his mind, going after coaches, teammates, security and trying to get into the stands to go after fans is completely unacceptable and unforgiveable.
we do not need a player like that on our team....moot point anyway because he wouldn't last through Mangini's OTA's and Holmgren is smart enough to realize that. we will not draft Blount.
Myron Rolle SS/FS 6'2 - 218 lbs. He is as smart on the field as he is in the classroom, which is pretty smart. He has great instincts and always seems to be around the ball, but his best assets are a little easier to notice. Rolle, at 6-2 and 218 pounds has great size and strength. He defends the pass extremely well and has the quickness to cover the field sideline to sideline.
If he's still there in the 3rd, I would grab him QUICK!
I doubt Rolle will be there in the 3rd.. his stock has been rising steadily since he returned to the football scene a few months ago. He came back in great shape, arguably better than when he left and based on his senior bowl practices, he didn't miss a beat.
I want him as a Brown....but I think a 1st, 2nd, and 3rd rounder is too risky. Maybe an early 4th. I know he'll be long gone by then though. Oh well, I'm content with what we have now. Plus, we have bigger holes elsewhere on the roster.
I've pimped an early round running back every year for the past 5 years in hopes that we'd finally address the position and this year will be no different. 2009 was Beanie Wells and LeSean McCoy, 2008 was Jonathan Stewart, 2007 was Adrian Peterson, 2006 was DeAngelo Williams and 2005 was Cadillac Williams. This year, I present to you: Jonathan Dwyer. I’ve watched some of his games, so this breakdown comes from that.
Jonathan Dwyer, RB, Georgia Tech - 5'11", 235 lbs.
Positives:
- Great size/speed combination with great body type - Has the frame to hold up to an NFL punishing - Very strong and powerful runner with well built lower body - Solid top speed with good acceleration; able to score "home run" touchdowns - Lowers shoulder and plows ahead in traffic, delivering quality hits to defenders and bounces off tackles well - Doesn’t really have fumble problems aside from the goofy fumbles that come from running a triple option
Negatives:
- Comes from the triple option offense which has him playing fullback, meaning that he's very hard to project to the NFL game - Not as good of an outside runner as he is between the tackles - Doesn't have a lot of wiggle; he's not going to make a lot of defenders miss - Somewhat choppy in his long stride and directional changes - Little experience as a receiver though he seems like he has good hands when he's thrown the ball (ala Adrian Peterson) - Little experience as a blocker because of the system he comes from
Availability:
I expect Dwyer realistically to go late 1st-early 2nd round. He has an upside of mid-1st if he knocks his combine out and a floor of late 2nd if he doesn’t. Both of those scenarios are unlikely although I expect him to run well.
Summary:
If we’re looking for a feature back in the 2nd round this year (which I am all for), my preference is Dwyer. He’s an incredibly well built power back who should be able to take hits in the NFL for years to come and he has speed that makes him a multi-dimensional threat. He would make a fantastic thunder/lightning combination with Harrison. He’ll still be 20 come draft time and his system didn’t overwork him, so there are still plenty of carries left in him.
The big problem with him is just that… his system. His system didn’t ask him to block or receive much, so to ask him to do that in our offense (which he’ll have to do to succeed) is a projection. He has the body-type to do it, but it’s difficult to determine whether he actually can. I’m not nearly as worried about him running from a standard set, as he showed he was capable of it as a freshman.
Still, that kind of uncertainty is the reason (to me) why he’s not a 1st round lock because physically he’s everything you’d want. There is definitely a bit of risk with this pick, but the upside is great - Dwyer has the potential to be a star feature back in this league. Plus, don’t forget the story of another triple option running back who was able to make the conversion: LaDainian Tomlinson.
1. John Skelton QB, Fordham, 6'5 250lbs 2. Positives: Big/ tall quarterback. Was accurate with the throws that he was asked to make. Has a huge powerful arm. Can gain positive yards scrambing. 3. Negatives: Played in a wide open system in Division 1AA. 4. Round available: rounds 5-6 5.
I have actually read a lot about Skelton after his practice week at the East/West Shrine game. From what I read he had poor accuracy and very bad footwork.
Quote: I have actually read a lot about Skelton after his practice week at the East/West Shrine game. From what I read he had poor accuracy and very bad footwork.
This is contrary to what I have read. I would love to read your information. Do you have any links?
Sure...if you have ESPN Insider. I would provide a link but it's against the rules.
Here is some stuff from National Football Post. It doesn't really add up, I'll post it in chronological order.
Quote: John Skelton, Fordham’s standout quarterback, is a tall drink of water who can really spin the football. He throws a tight, clean spiral even when asked to drive the ball outside the numbers and displays much more polished footwork than expected, generating a lot of power from his lower half once his back foot hits the ground. He isn’t the most gifted athlete and struggles with his accuracy when asked to reset his feet and quickly realign his body into throws, but he has a good physical skill set and looks like one of the more intriguing senior quarterback prospects in the draft.
Quote: The more I watch Fordham quarterback John Skelton, the more I become a fan of his game. There’s no denying his physical skill -- he has the strongest arm down here by far, effortlessly spinning throws outside the numbers with impressive overall zip. However, the game finally looks to be slowing down a bit for him, as he seemed more comfortable during 7-on-7 and 11-on-11 drills Wednesday and even led an impressive two-minute drill at the end of practice. He’s still a long way away and, like any strong-armed passer, he gets sloppy with his footwork and trusts his arm too much at times. But the fact that he’s made some strides this week makes me think there’s some significant long-term upside to his game.
Quote: How does Fordham quarterback John Skelton handle the jump in competition? The guy has all the tools to play at the next level and seemed to get more and more comfortable as the week went on. This could be his chance to take the next step in front of NFL teams during live game action
So according to "Link #1" he "displays much more polished footwork than expected". But in "Link #2" "he gets sloppy with his footwork and trusts his arm too much at times. But the fact that he’s made some strides this week makes me think there’s some significant long-term upside to his game." So either his footwork was expected be really, really bad, but was only horrible...or this writer doesn't know he's talking about.
I know Eric Berry is good. You cant dispute taking him if he's available at 7. But why did Taylor Mays stock drop??? He's a lot bigger and faster. Once he does the 40 at the combine he will move way up, imo. I just really like this kid on the field. And I hate USC.
Taylor Mays was horrible all year for USC and was horrible all week at the Senior Bowl. Also, as a starting safety for four years he only had five INT's. I think he was overrated on a defense that also had Cushing, Maualuga, Ellison, Maiava, Moala, and Harris.
With that said, I agree his stock will rise after the combine because teams will fall in love with his measurables.
Mays was supposed to be a big hitter. - Terrelle Pryor tatooed him and so did Brandon Saine. - Mays went for a couple knockout hits and got knocked back himself.
I'm going to be a PSU homer and suggest TE Andrew Quarless as a potential 4th/5th rounder. He seems to have put some maturity issues behind him. He has size, speed, and hands. I think he poses mismatch issues for a defense.
He's 6'5" 252 lbs. His blocking has improved as well and he had a solid week at the East/West Shrine Game.
Quote: Taylor Mays was horrible all year for USC and was horrible all week at the Senior Bowl. Also, as a starting safety for four years he only had five INT's. I think he was overrated on a defense that also had Cushing, Maualuga, Ellison, Maiava, Moala, and Harris.
With that said, I agree his stock will rise after the combine because teams will fall in love with his measurables.
Or did Mays have a down year on a defense that lost Cushing, Maualuga, Mathews, Maiava, Moala, and Harris
How good would Troy Polamalu look without James Harrison, James Farrior, Lawrence Timmons, Lamar Woodley, Ryan Clark, Casey Hampton, and Ike Taylor.
Great college player, but he doesn't have the size/speed combo to make in the NFL. His coverage abilities just aren't there, and he isn't big enough to be a force against the run.
I like Kurt Coleman a lot...but he is definately a role player in the NFL....I don't see him as a star in the making...but I see him having a solid career as a backup SS....playing in nickel and dime.....and being able to get a few games out of if injury strikes.
Peen stole my thunder in another thread but I want to second OG John Jerry in the fifth round. I have a feeling he's going to be a solid player and a real value as a 5th round pick.
Quote: How good would Troy Polamalu look without James Harrison, James Farrior, Lawrence Timmons, Lamar Woodley, Ryan Clark, Casey Hampton, and Ike Taylor.
Hack,
Do I remember correctly that Polamalu didn't have a great rookie year & was even considered a wasted pick early on by some? Not that it really fits the thread totally, but it does serve as an example of how even the best could have some adjustment issues at this level.
Do I remember correctly that Polamalu didn't have a great rookie year & was even considered a wasted pick early on by some?
Not sure he was ever considered a wasted pick, but his rookie season and I believe part of his second season were somewhat a problem in terms of his performance...
Quote: Mays was supposed to be a big hitter. - Terrelle Pryor tatooed him and so did Brandon Saine. - Mays went for a couple knockout hits and got knocked back himself.
I'll never forget when Dan Herron lowered his shoulders and drove Mays to the ground when Mays was gunning for a big hit.
Do I remember correctly that Polamalu didn't have a great rookie year & was even considered a wasted pick early on by some?
Not sure he was ever considered a wasted pick, but his rookie season and I believe part of his second season were somewhat a problem in terms of his performance...
Troy was called a bust early and often....I liked him..but I was calling to stay put and take Asomugha......Then many felt they could have not made the trade...and just taken Mike Doss later.
So Troy was blasted because he did not start for a while....but I think a lot of that was because the Steelers gave up a 1, 3 and 5 to get him...and when he did not produce right away...they thought the price was too high.
Quote: I'll never forget when Dan Herron lowered his shoulders and drove Mays to the ground when Mays was gunning for a big hit.
Youtube is the greatest. - Mays figured he was going to get his way, Herron had other plans. - I'd say they developed a mutual respect for each other after this:
I didn't know that.. I spoke to relatives in the Pittsburgh and all they were saying is that he's disappointing but they thought he could come around.....
Quote: I like Kurt Coleman a lot...but he is definately a role player in the NFL....I don't see him as a star in the making...but I see him having a solid career as a backup SS....playing in nickel and dime.....and being able to get a few games out of if injury strikes.
You're too polite. He's a backup and special teamer worth taking in the 6th or 7th round.
I didn't know that.. I spoke to relatives in the Pittsburgh and all they were saying is that he's disappointing but they thought he could come around.....
Keep in mind...I am referring to MB talking heads....he was never called or considered that by people in the know...or even the main stream media
I would take Kurt Coleman in the 5th...and not think twice....
I think Coleman can be better than he is...but I honestly think he won't be worse than he is.....ie...potential to be better...very little risk to be a bust.
Honestly..I think he can be a poor mans Earl Thomas....and Thomas will be taken in the first.
There is no way Jerry is around in the 5th round. At the National Football Post they have him ranked as the 22nd overall player in the entire draft and he had a solid Senior Bowl.
I'm reluctant to say anything with certainty regarding guards, as they are generally unpredictable, especially this year.
I, personally have Jerry as a 4th rounder, but he could easily go as high as the 3rd, or as late as the 5th.
Just a word of advice. It's typically better to listen to websites and publications which focus exclusively on the draft. The National Football Post has an exceptionally bad reputation.
I just looked at Scout's Inc top 32 draft picks and Jimmy Clausen was nowhere to be found. Bradford was ranked 11th. Has Clausen's stock dropped that much already? What's the deal? (I do not want him, but just wondering).
Quote: There is no way Jerry is around in the 5th round. At the National Football Post they have him ranked as the 22nd overall player in the entire draft and he had a solid Senior Bowl.
Hey, I am just going by what I see scouring the net. We may go to different places.
I am not a scout and don't go to private workouts.....just like everyone else around here.
If we need to select him earlier, we need to select him earlier.
I don't think he is at 22, but if you think so, well, we probably won't get him.
I just think he is a good player.....that SEC "thang"
It's a mock by people who don't know squat.....don't get so worked up.
Quote: Just a word of advice. It's typically better to listen to websites and publications which focus exclusively on the draft. The National Football Post has an exceptionally bad reputation.
You would be better off taking draft advice from a high schooler.
Quote: Just a word of advice. It's typically better to listen to websites and publications which focus exclusively on the draft. The National Football Post has an exceptionally bad reputation.
You would be better off taking draft advice from a high schooler.
Quote: Just a word of advice. It's typically better to listen to websites and publications which focus exclusively on the draft. The National Football Post has an exceptionally bad reputation.
You would be better off taking draft advice from a high schooler.
Is DeepThreat in high school now? Holy crap, the kid's growing up!
Quote: Just a word of advice. It's typically better to listen to websites and publications which focus exclusively on the draft. The National Football Post has an exceptionally bad reputation.
You would be better off taking draft advice from a high schooler.
Quote: There is no way Jerry is around in the 5th round. At the National Football Post they have him ranked as the 22nd overall player in the entire draft and he had a solid Senior Bowl.
I know not, of this national football post you speak of .
The sites I looked at had him slotted in the 4th or 5th round. Frankly I hope your right and he gets drafted in the 1th round. It'll confirm my (and peens) savy eye for talent
Corey Wootton, DE, Northwestern Corey Wootton is a mountain of a man at 6'7" 270 pounds. He would be an ideal fit for a 3-4 defense as a space-filling run stuffer who can also open blitzing lanes for outside linebackers and safeties.
Quote: Sporting News' Pro Football War Room has hundreds of player evaluations in preparation for the 2010 NFL draft . Here is a capsule look at prospect Ryan Mathews.
NFL position: RB Height: 5-11 Weight: 220 40 time: 4.50 Current projection: Second-round pick NFL comparison: Kevin Jones, Bears
Inside running: Is a powerful inside runner with great pad level, leverage and balance through the hole. Gets downhill fast, and looks to run through contact. Keeps feet moving, and falls forward after contact. Is better at breaking high arm tackles than withstanding contact around his feet. Can dip shoulder with quick lateral move in hole to make a defender miss. Grade: 8.5
Outside running: Is much more effective as a north/south runner. Runs best when he can get to the perimeter and turn shoulders downhill. Lacks elite speed to consistently gain the edge or outrun angles for defenders. Looks to run over would-be tacklers near the sideline rather than try to make them miss. Is not creative or elusive in the open field. Grade: 7.5
Blocking: Can be a devastating blocker in pass protection, especially against a blitzing safety or linebacker. Keeps shoulders square, rolls hips and uncoils body into pass rushers. Shows sufficient skills to play immediately on third downs. Grade: 8.5
Hands/routes: Shows soft hands and ability to adjust to off-target passes. Is most effective on screens and checkdowns. Is more likely to break a tackle than evade anyone on wheel, swing or angle routes. Grade: 8.0
Durability: Is strong and powerful. Runs behind his pads with great lower-body flexibility, nimble feet and balance to bounce off tackle attempts. Wears down defenders. Runs with square shoulders and a strong stride. Shows exceptional toughness, but little elusiveness. Grade: 7.0
Bottom line: Mathews, a first-year starter as a junior in '09, lost playing time to other backs late in the season. He has the body and athletic ability to excel, especially for a team seeking a sledgehammer inside back. He will become a complete player who lacks Pro Bowl-caliber speed and ability, but he should have a solid career. Mathews has the chance to play right away on third down because of his ability to pass protect. We should be paired with an undersized, fast and explosive back.
Quote: Curious as to why he "lost playing time to other backs late in the season".
Also, he was just a one year starter. Did somebody come out in the draft last year who had been holding him back? Why didn't he start as a sophomore?
For your first question
(2009) Leads the NCAA in rushing by more than 25 yards per game (161.6 yards per game)... has two of the Top 10 rushing games in the NCAA this season, 234 yards against No. 5 Boise State and San Jose State, those games rank third and fourth in Bulldog history, respectively... against the Broncos he score on runs of 69, 68 and 60 yards and a averaged 12.3 yards per carry... leads the NCAA win seven runs of 50-yards or more (69, 68, 68, 60, 59, 58, 55).... set a school record with seven straight 100-yard plus games... had 104 yards in the first half against UC Davis in the season opener and never played in the second half... had a career-high 38 carries for 145 yards against No. 7 Cincinnati... only played two plays in the fourth quarter in the last three games combined, both against New Mexico State in a 157-yard two touchdown performance... didn't play in the fourth quarter at Hawaii or San Jose State in Fresno State's large wins.
It would appear they used him sparingly late in games with big leads.... that's all.
As for your second question...
(2008) Ranked in the Top 10 in the NCAA in rushing after four games with two games of more than 160 yards before suffering an injury against UCLA ... played sparingly in the next three games that followed and missed five full games, including the last four of the regular season ... was averaging nearly six yards per carry before the injury ...
He was hurt in 2008 but was having a great season prior to getting injured.
He sounds like a good one. I would love to get him in the 3rd but from what I have been reading he looks like he is projected to the middle of round 2. Perhaps we trade down in round 1 and pick an extra pick in round 2 because I am not sure I want to go Rb at the top of round 2. I think there will be options I prefer with our round 2 pick because we could get Hardesty, Tate, Dixon or Scott later in the draft without that much of a difference in talent (from what I have been reading).
I still like this guy in the 3rd. If he is there in the top of the 4th we have to take him.
Toby Gerhart Runningback
Stanford
Senior
Ht: 6’ 1” 235 lbs.
Strengths: Strength, toughness, Power, Vision, Patience, Explosiveness, Blocking, nose for the end zone.
Weaknesses: Not much at all, speed is a question mark, but he looks very fast on the field.
Early projections make the 2010 NFL Draft the “Year of the Big Back” as seniors LeGarrette Blount of Oregon, Charles Scott from LSU and Toby Gerhart out of Stanford and junior Jonathon Dwyer of Georgia Tech are listed as some of the best backs available for next year. All four are at least 230 lbs and all four could potentially be franchise backs at the next level.
Only the fifth Stanford RB to reach 1,000 yards, Gerhart proved his status as a top prospect by running for 101-yards and a TD against USC and 103-yards with a TD against Cal last season (both Cardinal losses), finishing the year on a strong note for the 5-7 Cardinals. For the year, Gerhart had 8 100-yard games, including a 152-yard, 2 TD game against Oregon State and 138-yards and 2 TD in a close loss to UCLA, 23-20. Gerhart’s 1,136 yards set the school record.
His 2007 season became a wash due to a knee injury, but he gave a glimpse of his potential after cruising for 141-yards and a TD on only 12 carries against San Jose State in his only action of that year. In 2006, he was Stanford’s second leading rusher with 403-yards.
A power back with excellent speed, Gerhart is simply too powerful for many LB and especially defensive backs to handle. He runs with no fear and can surprise defenders with a good burst through the middle. Able to plow through defenders or bounce of them, Gerhart possesses the sound feet and balance to keep plays alive, pushing forward for extra yards with defenders draped over him. Lacks an extra, breakaway gear but has the speed to get outside and makes life miserable for corners trying to bring him down. Shows great patience in letting the play develop and the vision to find a crease. His strength carries over into pass protection and he’s already proficient in this area.
Gerhart has solid hands and can catch the ball out of the backfield. As Stanford’s lone offensive threat, Gerhart routinely had to face extra defenders in the box looking to slow him down. Few succeeded as he was credited with only 40 yards for loss on the entire season.
A member of the Stanford baseball team as well, Gerhart will need to ease team’s minds that he is focused solely on football but it seems like football is where his career is taking him. Gerhart lacks the burst and explosiveness to make him truly elite as a prospect and will likely keep him from being an early selection. In the open-field he has few moves but does possess a little wiggle in him to at least keep from taking huge hits. As he continues to develop, he will learn to harness his power even better, a scary thought for future opponents.
Not as flashy as other backs and not at the level of Dwyer, who could be one of the best backs to enter the NFL, don’t sleep on Gerhart. He’s expected to carry the ball 25 times a game in 2009 and his stats should rise once again. He may not be a Heisman candidate but an injury free season and more solid games against big boys like USC, Cal and UCLA should assure Gerhart of at least a second round pick come next April.
Toby Gerhart Update:
As predicted, a rise in Gerhart’s carries (18 to 24 per game) has given a rise in Gerhart’s production. He leads the nation in touchdown runs by a large margin with 27 TDs and he is currently ranked second in the nation in rushing with 311 carries for 1,736 yards. He is in the hunt for the Heisman Trophy and looks to me like a legitimate late first/ early second round selection in the 2010 NFL Draft.
He has great hands and can catch the ball out of the back field as good as any of the smaller scat backs, the only thing that might cause him to slip into the 3rd or 4th round is if he has a mediocre run at the NFL Scouting Combine.
Being on the left coast I caught a bunch of Stanford games. Gerhart was a beast.
I don't understand the references to 2007 games, Stanford beat Washington, USC, UCLA, Arizona and Norte Dame last year. The wins against USC and Oregon were quality games, and Gerhart shined.
I would take Andrew Luck as QB anyday. He has a bright future.
Sure, I want to see his 40 time, but that is really the only question.
Right. Why would he be a fullback in the NFL? You are dead wrong on this one. He is 6-1, 235 lbs and will run a 4.5 forty. He ran the ball successfully as a tailback at Stanford and in high school.
I Googled "2010 NFL Draft" then looked at all the top searched sites for running back rankings. Not one of them even mention Gerhart as a fullback. He has the size, speed, and athleticism to be a tail back. The only reason you say he is a fullback is because he is white.
I heard a lot of people who think Gerhart will need to be converted to Fullback. They site his speed or rather lack there of. As of I now I would say we don't know how fast his 40 time is. But we should come next week when the combine takes place.
Personally I love his running style. He is tough to bring down and slipperier in the hole than most people give him credit for. He is a tough kid and I think a perfect fit for the Browns and an excellent compliment for the running style of Harrison.
One of Gerhart's problems is the comparison to "Touchdown" Tommy Vardell which I think is totally unfounded except that they are both big backs from Stanford. If you pay attention to both players there running style is pretty different.
Quote: We'll see, but there is a reason Jamal went top 10 and Gerhat is a 3rd rounder at best.
So how about you tell us what it is Deep? Folks are right...you've been a bit arrogant in draft discussion lately. How about you start backing up with fact rather than just telling people they fail?
I'm willing to give you cred as an informed poster but how about you back it up like you typically do.
Quote: So how about you tell us what it is Deep? Folks are right...you've been a bit arrogant in draft discussion lately. How about you start backing up with fact rather than just telling people they fail?
I'm willing to give you cred as an informed poster but how about you back it up like you typically do.
I would like someone to back up the Gerhart/Tebow/Rolle love with some fact other than the kid is a winner and plays hard. DT is 100% right on this one. Comparing Lewis in college and Gerhart is a futile arguement, they dont compare at all. Lewis = FAR superior prospect and I would challenge anyone to find some real scout's take on him to which they think he deserves a top 2 round grade.
Quote: So how about you tell us what it is Deep? Folks are right...you've been a bit arrogant in draft discussion lately. How about you start backing up with fact rather than just telling people they fail?
I'm willing to give you cred as an informed poster but how about you back it up like you typically do.
I would like someone to back up the Gerhart/Tebow/Rolle love with some fact other than the kid is a winner and plays hard. DT is 100% right on this one. Comparing Lewis in college and Gerhart is a futile arguement, they dont compare at all. Lewis = FAR superior prospect and I would challenge anyone to find some real scout's take on him to which they think he deserves a top 2 round grade.
I do agree that Jamal was a superior prospect which is why he went, what, 5th overall that year. All I was saying is that I'd like to see people put forth ideas apart from what they read on draft sites...especially when the person who is espousing the wisdom was six years old when Jamal was drafted.
The main difference that I see between Jamal and Gerhart is not top end speed, its the speed of the feet...the little steps. This is something Jamal had, allowing him to be a big back with a deceptive amount of wiggle. Gerhart doesn't really have this...he looks to be more of a long strider.
What Gerhart does have is a good burst to the hole and nice vision to go along with the boom he can provide being 235 pounds. If he runs well at the combine, he could potentially go second round.
That being said, I don't think he'll be a great one. A good one perhaps with an ok career but not great.
I see zero chance of us going OT. Right tackles are rarely drafted top 15, let alone top 10. Add in the amount of needs the Browns have, and I see no chance.
The fact of the matter is that it sounds like the Browns love Haden. Where there's this much smoke, there's fire. Our secondary is a huge need, and you know Mangini will be pushing for a DB.
Heckert has typically drafted for BPA, and Holmgren did that quite often as well.
If Berry and Bradford are gone, I fully expect the pick to be Haden, But even Haden may be gone by then, assuming he has the big combine that is expected of him.
Quote: There is no way this regime takes a db this high. No way. We're going to get a qb, or an ot, or we're gonna trade back.
One of the old standards was that when you're talking about a very high pick.......say top-10 or even better........the most important positions are LT, QB, and CB. So I would be surprised if we took a RT, Berry, a RB, or even McClain (and keep in mind I'd prefer McClain over Berry, which is unpopular, hehe).
Since we have a LT, that'd leave QB and CB. As bad as I think Quinn is, I can make an argument that he and his play is tougher to evaluate than McDonald's, so replacing a McDonald may be more vital than replacing Quinn with the 7th pick. It's worth noting that Haden is unquestionably the highest rated CB in this draft. As with my opinion regarding Berry, I'd rather take the more unpopular stance and take Bradford instead of Haden.
Taking a right-tackle with the 7th pick would be a pretty big reach on the part of Holmgren and Heckert. I think there'll be just too many higher ranked players available to us at 7.
Only part I disagree with you on is the probability of us taking Berry. Not only is Berry thought of as corner by many teams, but when a player is at his caliber, he breaks the general rules.
He is the consensus #3 player in the draft, at a huge position of need for the Browns. I think he's the pick if available.
Yeah, I'm going against the consensus opinion regarding Berry. I'm not sharing the opinion that he's going to be moved to corner. It could happen, but I don't think teams that would throw huge dollars at him will screw around with making him change positions. Being a Safety got him here, so I tend to believe that's where he'll stay. Making a guy who has earned his reputation facing the football turn around and put his back to it is risky.
Quote: Yeah, I'm going against the consensus opinion regarding Berry. I'm not sharing the opinion that he's going to be moved to corner. It could happen, but I don't think teams that would throw huge dollars at him will screw around with making him change positions. Being a Safety got him here, so I tend to believe that's where he'll stay. Making a guy who has earned his reputation facing the football turn around and put his back to it is risky.
Well, he was the #1 CB recruit coming out of high school. It seems like UT (yes Toad and other Austinites, the 'other' UT) moved him over to safety just because he's such an impact player and he has more of a chance to be in on every play at S. I'd keep him at safety, too... but I think he could be an upper-echelon corner.
Bruce Campbell Offensive Tackle If this guy could/can catch a ball he'd be a helluva tight end 4.76 forty 6'6 315 lbs 32 inch verticle jump What a beast
I am beginning to like Jimmy Graham. If he's available in the 4th round I think he'd be a very good value. 6'6'' 260 pounds, and ran a 4.56 forty. He's obviously raw because he only played one year of college football, but I think he would be a great pick in the mid-rounds. Especially for a team, like us, who is starving for a pass catching tight end.
How come no one is talking up cj spiller? He's been phenominal all year and now ran a 4.2 40 at the combine. This kids the real deal. Are we too high to snatch him? He would instantly amp up our running game. Harrison, CJ, and Cribbs in the wildcat... hmmm
IDK... I'm not saying we should take him at 7. I just think he's the next LT or AP... the next all pro back to come out of college. I get stuck every year watching acc games cuz of my area, this kid is impressive imo.
If Benn is there in the Second rd, I want him. He's the one WR I am getting behind in this year's draft. I would be pissed obv if we drafted him at #7 but as a late 1st/early 2nd I think he's amazing value.
This draft is incredibly deep. It's great that we are even discussing the possibility of getting a player like Benn in the 2nd round.
The more and more I think about it, the more I think we need to get at least one more pick in the 2nd round. I always hope we trade down, from #7 this year, but this year we have enough picks where trading up into the 2nd round is a possibility.
Quote: the more I think we need to get at least one more pick in the 2nd
Ya never know, Trade away our first round for a teams 2nd round in this years draft, another pick in this years draft and thier 2nd next year, save us money this year and would give us a extra 2nd next year. Never know I'm sure Holgrams looking at all the possiblities.
Given the combination of his measureables AND college production (1,700+ all purpose yards and 16 TD's on only 252 touches last season) would anyone here CONSIDER him at 7?
Clearly you trade down if you can but man I would be hard pressed to pass on an all-purpose back as talented as Spiller if Berry was off the board (especially with how little mileage is on his frame). I like Haden, I just don't know if he's a top 10 corner.
I think I would prefer a RB/DB combo of C.J. Spiller (round 1) / Patrick Robinson (round 2) vs. Joe Haden (round 1) / Jahvid Best (Round 2).
Maybe it's just me but Spiller looks like he's going to be an absolute weapon. Very few guys are incredibly productive in college AND show really well at the combine. My only thought has been, if Jerome Harrison can light teams on fire behind our OL, what could Spiller do?
The sensible thing is obviously to avoid a skill position at #7 (if possible) but with his production, coupled with his very good measurables, he seems like a sure thing at RB (something we haven't had in a LOOOONG time).
Spiller would be nice. - I don't know if he's big enough though. I think Holmgren may try to get Toby Gerhart later on in round two. - Trade back into the round.
Quote: I would take the Haden/Best combo over Spiller/Robinson every time.
Best was just as much of a weapon as Spiller before he got injured. Getting him in the 2nd round would be a steal.
My only problem with Best is his head injuries. What did he have, 2 concussions in the span of a few weeks, one where he was knocked unconscious? Concussions can derail a career, especially at RB, VERY quickly. Throw in the fact that he had ankle and elbow surgery before his junior season and I wouldn't want to spend a 2nd round pick on that kind of player. Seems like somewhat of a glass man. For an undersized RB, that's obviously not a good thing.
He has talent no doubt but if the argument to pass on Spiller at #7 is the depth of the RB class, I don't see why you would then consider taking a gamble on an undersized RB with injury concerns in the 2nd? If the class is as deep as some are saying, I think you'd take a guy with less questions surrounding him as there should be plenty of bodies available.
My preference is clearly NOT to take a RB at #7 but I think the front office is kind of in a tough spot. Spiller is a homerun guy (9TD's of 50+ yards last season). Do you pass on someone like that for a good but not great CB? If they really like Haden, then he seems like the most reasonable pick there, I just personally am not 100% sold on him. A lot of experts are though, so it could be a case where I just need to stick to my day job.
Quote: He has talent no doubt but if the argument to pass on Spiller at #7 is the depth of the RB class, I don't see why you would then consider taking a gamble on an undersized RB with injury concerns in the 2nd? If the class is as deep as some are saying, I think you'd take a guy with less questions surrounding him as there should be plenty of bodies available.
I said I would rather have the combo that you presented of Haden/Best over the other combo. Also, as I said, I would rather not take any RB's until after round two because we have more pressing needs and the RB talent pool is deep. Usually on draft day RB's drop which means a player like Toby Gerhart, Jonathan Dwyer, LeGarrette Blount, Anthony Dixon, and/or Ben Tate will be available in the 3rd round.
Quote: Also, as I said, I would rather not take any RB's until after round two because we have more pressing needs and the RB talent pool is deep.
Agreed.
To touch on that, I think Gerhart is the sort of rb that Holmgren likes. - Big, strong, and athletic. - Kinda like Tom Rathman, Roger Craig, Edgar Bennett, and Shaun Alexander.
I would not be surprised to see us take Gerhart sometime in round 2 and definitely with our first pick in the 3rd round - if he's available.
So would I. - He's a great football player. He's also a great baseball player. - Not that the baseball side matters much, but it does prove that we would be getting a top notch athlete. - Which means he can play more than one position - rb, fb, special teams.
Quote: Joe Haden ran a 4.61 and 4.58 40 this morning. That's slow as hell for a CB. Malcom Jenkins ran a 4.53 forty and he slipped to pick 14.
I'm with ya man. I've been saying all along that Haden is not worth a top 10 pick. Haden is not as good as Malcolm Jenkins was, however, I would be cool if we traded back to 14 and grabbed him there.
Quote: I can't agree with that. Haden is a much better prospect than Jenkins.
I don't care about the 40 times. Haden has the speed to play corner. He's a lot faster than a lot of guys who have had better times.
Validation or confirmation will come when and if Haden runs at his pro-day. He'll either stop the questions or start the slide. I'll wait until then to see how he does............
Quote: I can't agree with that. Haden is a much better prospect than Jenkins.
I don't care about the 40 times. Haden has the speed to play corner. He's a lot faster than a lot of guys who have had better times.
Validation or confirmation will come when and if Haden runs at his pro-day. He'll either stop the questions or start the slide. I'll wait until then to see how he does............
Even though I was not incredibly high on him before he ran, I would have to agree. I find it hard to believe Haden is that slow. 4.6 for someone believed to be an elite corner is somewhat disappointing (and Haden has even said that himself in post workout interviews).
I've always thought putting too much stock in a 40 time, especially for a DB is somewhat silly. When you're talking .2 tenths of a second, there are a handful of things a good DB can do to counter such a "speed" disparity. A good hip turn, anticipation, re-directing a receiver with your hands / body, cutting off a route, etc., etc. etc,. If the team likes Haden, I would hope his 40 time wouldn't effect our evaluation of him but who knows.
Berry showing up and exceeding expectations surely didn't help Haden either. He could now be viewed as both the #1 saaety and #1 corner prospect. For his sake I hope he runs well at his pro-day.
Taylor Mays.... told you all he was gonna tear it up at the combine. Dont think we will take him at #7 but this kid is going to be onehelluva safety. 230 and runs a 4.3. People keep talking about Berry. But in comparison Mays has 20 lbs, 3 inches, and runs faster.
How u figure? His junior year he was the top safety in the nation and considered a top 10 pick if he came out. Not sure what happened his senior year. USC as a whole look like they played half ass all year. I like Berry but dont see a major gap between the two.
His junior year he was also surrounded by experienced talent (Cushing, Maualuga, Ellison, Maiava, Matthews, Moala, Moore). He was considered a top 10 pick because he thrived in his limited role and everyone knew he was an athletic freak. USC did look like they tanked it a little bit last year and Taylor Mays was supposed to be the leader of that defense.
I'll tell ya what... I want Mays and Berry I see a lot of pain delivering hits to players in Mays. After he hits them... they get carted off the field. He strikes fear into people with his hits. Plus he is freakishly fast. I would trade over half my draft to land those two and take care of our outfield. It would force teams to throw short with out patterns (no one would want to run thru the middle) and run the ball more plus the forced fumbles would be thru the roof!
+1......were talkin about recovery speed essentially.....
the good news is, its extremely rare hes out of position. it not like all the SEC receivers are 4.6 or slower.....he's faced serious speed and defended well. quickness and fluidity >> 40 time.
now, additionally....a great 40 does not mean mays is a capable safety. the spped is nice to close, but he constantly gets caught peeking into the backfield, and that 4.2 isn't gonna make any difference when hes 15 yards in front of the receiver.
lesson: instinct and smarts are more coveted and useful than flat out speed and hitting ability.
I would trade 2-3 picks in exchange for Berry. I think Berry is going to be so good, that I wouldn't even bat an eye trading something like our #1, late #2 and #5 for him. Maybe that sounds ridiculous to some people but that guy is a flat out animal. Great measurables, great production and the ability to play multiple positions at a high level. Those guys don't come along very often. If you have a chance to get someone like him, even if it costs more than it should, you pull the trigger.
For Mays, I would take him if he was there in round 2. Beyond that, I just don't think he's worth it.
You talk about FF but in 4 years as a starter, Mays forced 1, ONE fumble. How does a safety that's 230 LBS and runs a 4.3 40 only cause ONE player to fumble in 4 seasons?
Plus, the guy is not a great tackler. Sure, he'll sometimes lay the big hit on someone but he'll also take a bad angle and wiff just as much. People are falling in love with his measurables, not his production.
0 sacks, 1 FF and 5 INT's in 4 years as a starter. That stat line is absolutely pedestrian for a guy people think should be a #1 pick.
Safety isn't a position where you're going to put up gaudy numbers but the guy is just NEVER around the football when it's in the air. To me that means three things.
1.) He continually gets lost in coverage.
2.) He gets caught out of position and constantly trails the receiver he's covering (thus killing opportunities to make a play on the football).
3.) He doesn't have a feel for what the QB is doing, i.e. can't read his eyes / body language and anticipate what he wants to do.
He lacks the football IQ of a player like Berry and at the next level, that's typically what separates the men from the boys.
Maybe he'll prove me wrong who knows. I have a feeling he won't but we shall see.
Another prospect I would love to have is Angerer from Iowa. Not sure where he is projected or his physical combine stats(which I think gets way too much hype) but this kid can flat out play.
One guy I'm interested in is Obrien Schofield. I know he suffored a major knee injury during the senior bowl practices but he was projected to be drafted in the second or third round. Now you could get the guy in the 6th or 7th.
To me it's worth it to take the risk and let him have the season to recover from the knee injury. This guy could be a nice player at OLB.
I'm about to start pimping a safety that I really didn't know too much about.. but after reading about the guy, and watching some highlights.. I think he can contribute to the Browns defense.
Kyle McCarthy of Notre Dame 6'0 - 205 lbs.
He's a team captain, shows great leadership, and always seems to be at the right place at the right time to make a big play.
Gets a ton of tackles, and also had 5 INT's this past season.
He's projected to go anywhere from the 6th- FA.. Doubt if he goes undrafted.. He's not the fastest, but makes plays on a consistent basis.
O yea.. He's from Youngstown, OH.
from condraft.com
Quote:
Overview Senior Bowl invitee. Measurements - arm: 28.75" hand: 8.75" Notes: Solid frame, decent sized, but short-armed. Strengths Smart, steady SS who plays a disciplined, sound game. Extremely intelligent team captain who already had graduated with a finance degree prior to the season. Hard hitter but not reckless; squares up well and is a reliable tackler. Active in the run game and good in pass defense. Can cover RBs and TEs man to man, and makes a number of timely interceptions. Fine special teams player. Weaknesses Not the biggest or the fastest. Not athletic enough to cover WRs or play in the slot. Projection Mid-round pick who's almost a lock to make a team. Far too smart and competitive to fail. Might take a while to start, but should eventually get there.
We are definitely look for safeties, and I think this guy could stick in a Brian Russell/ John Lynch kind of way (not sure he hits as hard as Lynch though, lol). He can definitely put players in position to make plays as well.
Quote: We are definitely look for safeties, and I think this guy could stick in a Brian Russell/ John Lynch kind of way (not sure he hits as hard as Lynch though, lol).
I, like you before, know nothing about this McCarthy. But from that statement alone I know he is white.
He reminds me more of a Kevin Ellison from USC than anyone else. Leader of a successful defense is college, smart, and undervalued. But if drafted he will eventually start for your team and be successful.
Browns to conduct private workout with Spikes Posted by Gregg Rosenthal on March 9, 2010 10:22 AM ET Mike Holmgren is already re-making the Browns offense, but Eric Mangini remains to pilot the defense. And he needs linebackers badly.
With that in mind, the team will conduct a private workout with Florida linebacker Brandon Spikes, according to a league source. The Buccaneers and Bills will also visit with Spikes.
Spikes has the size and instincts to make an ideal fit inside a 3-4 defense, but there are concerns about his top-end speed. On a 4-3 defense, he could play in the middle and some teams may look at him as a strong-side linebacker.
Draft projections have Spikes going anywhere from the mid-first round to the middle of the second round.
not really pimping the guy since i never saw him play but this guy is from my university and since it's a D3 school in cleveland, it's worth rooting for him!
Quote: As much as Dan Whalen would love to represent Case Western Reserve by sporting school garb on Friday in Columbus, he has a different plan intact.
Whalen's decision should not be confused as a slight to the college he attends while performing at Ohio State's pro day in an attempt to get noticed by an NFL team. The small-school product and South graduate is proud of where he hails.
His choice of workout gear has a specific purpose. He will be wearing a yellow Under Armour workout shirt.
"I'm thinking that will help me stand out," said Whalen.
Standing out is the goal on Friday for Whalen. His NFL dream depends on it. The most important stop to date for Whalen is at Ohio State's Woody Hayes Athletic Center, where NFL eyes will be upon him and other draft hopefuls from OSU and other small schools.
The nerves are there. The day is approaching. The pressure is mounting. For Whalen, it doesn't get any bigger than Friday.
"Yeah, I'm pretty nervous to tell you the truth," said Whalen, who headed to Columbus on Wednesday night. "It's like playing in a big game, but I'll be good to go. But the fact is, if you don't perform well, you won't get a call (from an NFL team). That's what makes it scary and nerve-wracking. But for me, I'm going in with nothing to lose."
Whalen's last workout with Tim Robertson at Speed Strength Systems at the Euclid Sports Plant was Monday. Rest is on the agenda until Friday, when check in at the OSU facility is at 7:30 a.m.
An hour later, field testing begins similar to the ones given at the NFL scouting combine. Whalen said he will take every test, among them the 40-yard dash, the vertical and broad jumps, the 3-cone drill and even bench press 225 pounds as many times as possible.
"I'm confident I'll be the strongest quarterback there," said Whalen.
After that, it will be time to throw the ball, a feat Whalen knows he must ace. Whether it's the 25-yard out or the seam route down the middle, crisp throws with zip and accuracy is most important.
"I know I have a strong arm," said Whalen. "From what I've heard, I'll probably make close to 70 or 80 throws. I'm confident I'll be fine throwing the ball. The biggest things with your throws, they want to see them on a line and accurate. You can't float anything."
The biggest difference from the combine to a pro day is players won't be interviewed by NFL teams, at least formally.
Whalen won't be the only small-school QB working out for the NFL masses. Joining Whalen is fellow small-school prospects Bill Cundiff of Ashland, a UConn transfer, and Trevor Harris of Edinboro.
The headliners from Ohio State who will be working out are defensive end/linebacker Thaddeus Gibson of Euclid and safety Kurt Coleman.
i can't either but in recent years, case has been doing a lot better. i think the head coach was up for a coach of the year, actually.if nothing else, this guy should be pretty smart.
As mall school prospect i'm pimping is Arthur Moats from James-Madison.
He's a de/olb tweener who's 6'1" 250lbs who had 90 tackles, 23 tfl and 11 sacks last year in the FCS. The year before he had 65tck, 15.5tfl and 11.5 sacks.
He's got pretty long arms and he also ran a 4.6 40.
He could end up being a pretty good OLB in the 3-4 defense.
Quote: actually.if nothing else, this guy should be pretty smart.
and wealthy (if you have seen the recent tuition hikes there)
well actually case has been one of the private institutions who have been great with giving out money, at least when i was in school from 03-07. unfortunately the economy definitely hurts but i remember, as a student, reading that 70% of students there received gift aid (grants, not loans), even though the avg income for the household was 100k. their motto was always, price shouldn't stop someone from attending and i definitely benefited from that as well from variation of scholarship, grants, and generally a small portion in loans. then again now, it costs 45k to attend and live on campus whereas, when i joined, it was around 30k.
Quote: then again now, it costs 45k to attend and live on campus whereas, when i joined, it was around 30k.
exactly. my class graduated the year before you started. when I started it was 20K/year w/ room and board. so, in just over 10 years it has more than doubled in price.
so, even with getting some aid, people are still graduating with a ton of debt now.
Quote: However, the cornerback’s father and trainer, Joe Haden Sr., says the poor times were a result of a lower back sprain the 20-year-old has been nursing, according to Ben Volin of the Palm Beach Post.
Two observations...
1) If this is true Haden will run a much better 40 at his Pro Day and rocket back up the draft boards (if he fell at all).
I think Suh would fit in any defense. He is just that good.
More on point, he is a much better guy against the run and consuming double teams (or just plain splitting them) than McCoy who is more of a pure 4-3 DT. I think Suh would be an excellent fit as a 3-4 DE.
You never know for sure, of course, but sometimes a talent is so good that you take that chance. Not that it will matter, if he lasts past #3, I will be shocked.
Watch the 40 on NFL Network for haden. The moment I saw it I knew it was a bad time. He started in the blocks as though he never had done it before. Deion Sanders had a tizzy watching his set up. I would be far more interested to see the 20 to 40 time and the 10 to 40 time to determine his actual footspeed.
Quote: I'm hoping Terrance Cody falls to us in the 2nd round.
He will be there in the second. He is only viable for 3-4 teams, and no-one except the Chargers will take him before the third. Too much of a risk with the weight.
Quote: Watch the 40 on NFL Network for haden. The moment I saw it I knew it was a bad time. He started in the blocks as though he never had done it before. Deion Sanders had a tizzy watching his set up.
I would be far more interested to see the 20 to 40 time and the 10 to 40 time to determine his actual footspeed.
How did he look in the drills? I didn't get a chance to see any of the combine this year.
I don't know about that man. With him down under 350, his stock just rose up a ton. And with half the teams running a 3-4 now, it's not like he fits with only a select few teams.
Gotta dig the Irish music from Boondock Saints in the video! Gets me pumped for St. Patty's Day.
Secondary just has to be in the first two rounds somewhere. We haven't added anyone to the secondary yet via FA, which has surprised me to a certain extent. Is the market for FAs in the secondary just that bad?
Quote: Tell me why Dexter McCluster's amazing skills wouldn't transcend to the NFL. And tell me why Cleveland shouldn't draft him. I've never seen such quick hip shift, coupled with immediate burst and breakaway speed.
or he at least knows how to play the media. a day after talking about needing a 'speed' guy we read that they are privately working out McCluster and attended Clemson's pro-day with Ford.
I don't want to waste a pick on a guy that's 5'9" 172 lbs and only ran a 4.5 40 at the combine. If he ran a 4.2 something or a 4.3 then I might think about it.
You're right he ran it. But there is enough film of him making playing and blowing passed people at Ole Miss to overrule his 40 time. And yes he's small, but as I've said before, guys who play in the slot don't have to be real tall (or tall at all) they just have to be quick and run good routes.
I like him as well. I only see two potential problems with him really. One is durability. Two is deciding how to get him involved in the offense. Using him conventionally won't work very well.
I know you've probably only seen highlights of Eric Metcalf with the Browns but this kid reminds me of Metcalf in the open field with his cutting ability.
I agree with both parts but I will say he seems to avoid big shots.
Lastly watching guys like McCluster make watching games fun. We don't have a dynamic offensive threat. As much as I am for building through the OL and DL we just don't have dynamic athleticism on offense at all. This guy would keep DCs up at night.
And you can't help but smile watching that guy tote the rock.
Quote: Theres way too much talent in this draft to take a gamble on a guy who could or could not be good in the NFL.
I'm kind of dumbfounded by this comment. Isn't every single prospect " a guy that could or could not be good in the NFL."
As bad as we have been picking the guys that "will be good" I don't mind taking a chance on a guy that could be GREAT. Besides could you imagine having Cribbs and McCluster in the wildcat together??
Quote: Theres way too much talent in this draft to take a gamble on a guy who could or could not be good in the NFL.
I'm kind of dumbfounded by this comment. Isn't every single prospect " a guy that could or could not be good in the NFL."
I just knew after I wroote typed that this comment would surface.
Yes any guy could or could not be good in the NFL but if I am a drafting for the Browns with all the draft failures we have had I am taking the guy's with the least amount of question marks.
Almost put this in the Bradford/Clausen or Bust thread just cause OoooRah and I had been talking about Armanti in there.
Quote: Published: March 17, 2010
BOONE - Armanti Edwards was back in familiar territory yesterday, continuing pursuit of his goal to play in the NFL.
Edwards and five other former Appalachian State players worked out at Kidd Brewer Stadium in front of representatives from 10 NFL teams.
Edwards, who amassed 14,753 yards of total offense in four seasons as ASU's quarterback and was a two-time player of the year in the NCAA's Football Championship Subdivision, remains a candidate for this year's NFL Draft as a quarterback, wide receiver and possibly return specialist.
He ran the 40-yard dash yesterday, something he didn't do Feb. 28 at the NFL Scouting Combine in Indianapolis because of a sore hamstring.
Mike Kent, ASU's strength and conditioning coach, said that each NFL team did its own timing.
"Most of the times (for Edwards) were in the 4.4 range," Kent said. "You've got 10 different teams, so you might have a range of anywhere from 4.42 to 4.48. If you're averaging, you're going to say somewhere in the mid 4.4 range."
Edwards said that the times were in the range he expected. His times were faster than those of the eight quarterbacks who ran the 40 at the NFL Combine and in the same range as most of the receivers at the Combine.
Edwards said that the hamstring that bothered him a few weeks ago is fine.
"It felt 100 percent today," Edwards said. "When I ran my 40s, I didn't feel anything. When I did the rest of my workout, it didn't get fatigued on me."
Edwards, who has been training at quarterback and wide receiver since the end of last football season, did drills yesterday at both positions and also fielded punts, something he hadn't done before.
"It wasn't as difficult as I thought," he said. "The wind kept pushing the ball a little right, but as the ball started coming off the JUGS machine I started adjusting."
Edwards said he doesn't yet have a feel for if he'll be drafted or in what round, or what position he will play. He said that the main question he gets from NFL teams is if he will be willing to play a position other than quarterback.
"Being undersized for a quarterback (5-11, 182), they want to see if I'm willing to play wide receiver or special teams," Edwards said.
The answer, he said, is "yes".
"At this point, beggars can't be choosers, so just playing in the NFL (is the goal)," Edwards said. "I want to play football.
"Every team varies. A couple of teams like me as a special-teams returner, a couple teams like me at receiver, and a couple like me at quarterback and receiver, so it depends on what team.
"As far as talking and getting feedback from the teams, I think I would be at a couple of positions -- quarterback some, wide receiver some and maybe returning kicks…. They like me as an athlete, they just don't know what position they want to put me at."
He said that the multiple possibilities could work in his favor.
"I think it's switching over to that for the past couple of years with players like Josh Cribbs and Pat White," Edwards said. "Guys who have been in the Shotgun or running the option, it gives them more hope to be in the NFL and hopefully play."
Edwards has more workouts scheduled in Boone. He said he will returns punts and kickoffs for the Jacksonville Jaguars today and then work at quarterback and wide receiver for the Carolina Panthers on Thursday, New England Patriots on Friday, Miami Dolphins next Monday and the Indianapolis Colts on March 30.
The Jaguars and Panthers had representatives at yesterday's Pro Day, along with the Baltimore Ravens, Buffalo Bills, Cleveland Browns , Detroit Lions, Kansas City Chiefs, Philadelphia Eagles, Pittsburgh Steelers and Washington Redskins.
Other former Appalachian State players who participated in workouts yesterday were: defensive tackles Malcolm Bennett and Anthony Williams, tight end Tim Frye, cornerback Cortez Gilbert and linebacker Jacque Roman.
From everything I've heard this guy is an Andre Johnson clone...except for the maturity issues. If this guy was clean off the field he would be a top 5 pick.
No one has seen that much of him because of the suspension but I am not a big fan.
What I like: Big strong fast and runs great after the catch.
What I don't like: besides the reported lack of work ethic, I don't like his propensity to catch the ball with his body.
My #1 Wr in the draft is DeMaryius Thomas - Big strong fast. Good hands and catches the ball with his hands. And doesn't have the off the field issues.
He also has a HUGE question mark surrounding him as he didn't run many routes in college. Running the triple option majority of the time, he needs a lot of work to become a viable NFL WR.
Yes he only ran a few routes in college but Randy Moss only runs a few in the NFL
I think Thomas will be an immediate contributor then with some coaching will turn into a premier Wr by year 3. JMO. We'll see in a couple of years if I'm right.
I agree the kid is a tremendous talent, has Calvin Johnon potential. Just is lack of any sort of a pro style offense is a bit worrisome to me, esp for a position that it very difficult to make the transition in the NFL.
I love Bryant on the field. IMO He is the best WR prospect since Calvin Johnson. With that said, I would not touch him in the top 10. There are a lot of stories floating about his character.
I agree. I've watched some of his games and read some stories about him. If he had his head screwed on straight I would have no problem taking with our 1st round pick.
But there is no way I would want to guarantee the type of money it would take to draft him (Heyward-Bey got $23.5 million guaranteed last year as the 7th pick).
Too bad because the guy is really talented.
For me the only options are Berry, trade down, and Haden (in that order).
I dont want anything to do with JPP. He would just scare me at the #7 overall pick and I feel like taking him would be like taking Heyward Bay or Bruce Allen.
Yeah, obviously I would like to trade up for Bradford but I didn't include that in my options because I don't think it is realistic.
I'm not really a fan of Pierre-Paul because I don't like taking players who have to switch positions that early in the draft. Also, he only played one at South Florida after two years in JUCO. He seems really risky to me.
I wouldn't be ecstatic about the pick either, but it is an option for me. Only reason I wouldn't like it is because of how risky it is. But let's face it, every pick that high in the draft is risky, and JPP was very good last year. I have no problem with taking a tweener that high. Shawne Merriman, Brian Orakpo and DeMarcus Ware are looking fine right now.
I would characterize jpp's play last year as good... Not #7 material. In fact every time I'd watch sofla play I'd hear the commentators talk about how jpp was even better than selvie but then selvie would be the one all over the place making plays. Selvie has NFL instincts and range. Not sure about jpp (reaction/anticipation plays into range, not just speed and acceleration.)
if you ask me who I'd rather have at OLB... Jpp or Graham, I'll take the nation's leader in TFLs and not think twice. That's why I can't see taking jpp at 7.
Btw, my options are: 1) berry 2) suh 3) Haden 4) Bradford at #7 5a) trade down to target mcclain 5b) trade down to target Graham 5c) trade down to target Trent Williams 6) mcclain 7) graham 8) Bryant
No, you interpret everything I say as me being full of myself. Good luck finding a GM who likes Thomas more than Berry. I have indirectly heard that 20 NFL teams have Thomas ranked way behind Berry, and not in the top 20.
cmon Deep, starting off a post like this was begging for that response.
try out: most scouting sites right now agree that Thomas is well behind JPP.
I personally really don't believe anything that GM's are telling anyone outside of their organization this time of year (too much incentive to lie).
As for the scouting services, most out there available to us average joe's have JPP ahead of Earl Thomas. 15 seems about right for him, but I personally like him a lot and think he will be a very good player. I would love to trade down (to early teens) and get him if Berry and Haden are gone.
Quote: No, you interpret everything I say as me being full of myself. Good luck finding a GM who likes Thomas more than Berry. I have indirectly heard that 20 NFL teams have Thomas ranked way behind Berry, and not in the top 20.
He is not the only one that feels that way about you. You have a lot of good insight but you present it in a way that puts others down and elevates yourself. You take a lot of the fun out of this forum with your behavior. It seems that no one can make a comment without you showing them that they are wrong. Not very fun.
You make not like Thomas but his stock is really high right now. He may not be the playmaker that Berry is, but any other year he would be the #1ranked safety.
From everything I've heard this guy is an Andre Johnson clone...except for the maturity issues. If this guy was clean off the field he would be a top 5 pick.
What does everyone think of him?
Having read a recent article stating they couldn't get him to attend classes or practices on time, and that they essentially had to become an adult-babysitter just to keep him involved in things, I say there's zero chance we take him at 7.
There's always the "glass is half-full" belief that a guy like Bryant can be brought around by NFL coaches and maturity. Sometimes that happens. But the glass "half-empty" viewpoint asks what happens to a person like Bryant when they suddenly have $10 millions dollars deposited into their checking account overnight?
Bryant has serious question marks, and after the issues Holmgren had with Koren Robinson, I don't see him taking a receiver with those kinds of issues #1.
Haven't seen this guy's name around here, but there is a bit of a buzz growing. Can you say Cribbs 2.0? Had a ridiculous workout after not even being invited to the combine.
I saw him a bit during the Senior Bowl week. I would take him as an undrafted free agent but nothing else. He couldn't run any routes and dropped tons of passes.
Positives: nasty demeanor in the game. strong lower body strength. great experience (suh and mccoy in the big xii as DTs who he had to face). i believe his style of play translates well to OG.
Negatives: a bit small for Mangini's style of OG unless we go to the more WCO oriented blocking schemes.
Why would we draft a center a year after drafting Mack?
well, we currently need a RG and a backup OC. JD Walton could be both and might slip into the later rounds.
ESPN First Draft podcast today, McShay (yeah yeah we know our feelings about him) thinks the browns are in the market for Dan Williams. Sees him over Odrick, esp if Berry is gone. What I know about Williams is that he is a talent, but runs hot and cold. Anyone actually see any Tenn games this year, and what are your opinions on him? I saw two vol games and only watched/noticed Berry.
Why is this? Do you not think he has the mindset to play nose, or can't convert to DE? Outside of what I read on a draft site I know very little about him.
brought up this guy before and exciting to know he was checked out by the browns. go case!
Quote: CLEVELAND -- Dan Whalen hoped he saved his best for last.
The Case Western Reserve University quarterback was pleased with his workout for the Browns on Sunday, saying, "I think it went great. Honestly, probably my best one so far. I threw 75 passes on my count and missed on only three or four balls. Hopefully, I raised some eyebrows."
Whalen, who starred at Willoughby South High school before setting multiple records at Case, was among about 25 local-area players who worked out for the Browns. He was the only quarterback on hand. Whalen threw to Ray Small (Ohio State and Glenville), Trey Stross (Iowa and Avon Lake), Rob Parris (Notre Dame and St. Ignatius), Derek McBryde (Kent State and Glenville), and Frank Ross (John Carroll and Canfield).
The players performed in front of the Browns' coaching and scouting staffs, with the exception of President Mike Holmgren and General Manager Tom Heckert.
"They filmed the workout, so I hope they have a chance to go back and watch," Whalen said.
It probably was Whalen's last formal workout before the April 22-24 NFL draft. He's hoping to gain at least an invitation to an NFL rookie minicamp workout if he isn't drafted. If not, Whalen probably will proceed with his career in the Canadian Football League. Calgary owns his rights. CFL training camps open on June 2.
Not pimping, exactly. Jules found this article about our neighbors grandson, Austin...
Bellbrook native, OSU linebacker Spitler getting looks from NFL teams
Ohio State linebacker and Bellbrook native Austin Spitler is climbing up the draft board as we approach this month’s NFL draft. Spitler has created a buzz around the league by grabbing teams’ attention with a solid Pro Day performance last month.
His performance forced teams to go back and watch film of him. Now the linebacker is being put under a microscope by at least 15 teams. The Miami Dolphins brought Spitler in for a visit and Cleveland has expressed interest.
“The draft process has been a whirlwind,” Spitler said in a recent phone interview. “There are stressful moments, but you have to sit back and take it all in. On the other hand, it’s a fun and exciting time in your life.”
The recent attention has raised Spitler’s draft status significantly. It is no longer a question of whether or not he’ll be drafted but rather when. Spitler will likely come off the board in the sixth or seventh round.
Not many people knew about Spitler until this past season and there is a good reason for that.
Spitler had to bide his time on the Buckeyes’ defense working behind three-time All-American and Butkus Award-winning linebacker James Laurinaitis for three seasons. The linebacker could have easily gotten discouraged over the lack of playing time and transferred to another program, but quitting wasn’t an option.
“A lot of people would have taken it personally, but not me,” Spitler said. “I continued to work hard and did whatever was asked of me. I wouldn’t change anything that happened at O-State. It was a blessing in disguise.
“I don’t think I would be the player I am today without James being there and learning from one another. We pushed each other on a daily basis in the weight room, practice field and film room. I think he made me a lot better player and I think I made him a better player because of the competition we had.”
Spitler said there were some difficult moments throughout the three years but he never thought about transferring.
The 6-foot-3, 245-pound Spitler is a physical, hard-nosed linebacker who loves to hit and punish ball carriers. He shows good versatility, work ethic, high football IQ and doesn’t make many mistakes. Spitler’s strong point is taking on blockers and driving them backwards. He’s perfectly suited for the middle linebacker position but will be asked to do other things in the pros. He will likely earn his living playing special teams early on in his pro career. Spitler was a special-teams demon for the Buckeyes.
I believe players know players best. Former Ohio State linebacker and teammate Marcus Freeman, now an undergraduate assistant coach, shared his thoughts on Spitler.
“Spit is a very good football player,” Freeman said. “I don’t think he received enough credit for the things he did while on the field. He was a guy that we always knew could get the job done. We knew if anything happened to James and he stepped in there wouldn’t be much change. I think he’s going to surprise some team once they get him in camp. He’s definitely a player.” Dayton Daily
A couple weeks ago I said that Kyle Wilson was better than Joe Haden. People said I was crazy. And now:
Quote: Boise State cornerback Kyle Wilson's stock has seemed to be on the rise since a very good Pro Day performance in late March. But his stock may be rising even higher than anyone thinks.
Charles Robinson of Yahoo reported today that Wilson could be the first cornerback drafted, and that many teams like him better than Florida's Joe Haden.
Following up on Robinson's report, Michael Smith of ESPN tweeted that Wilson could go as high as seventh overall, where the Cleveland Browns are drafting.
Per Robinson, teams think Wilson is better than Haden in man coverage, has more lateral quickness and changes direction better.
Our last mock draft had Wilson going 19th overall. As draft day gets closer, his chances of going high in the first round appear to be getting better.
Quote: 2010 NFL Draft, Cornerback Big Board 19th April, 2010 - 9:21 pm Jeff Risdon/RealGM - Updated 4/19
1. Kyle Wilson, Boise State. 5’10”, 194 pounds.
Positives: Very aggressive, physical corner with good strength and speed. Rocked up physique packd with quick-twitch muscle. Has lots of experience playing on an island and likes the challenge. Great hands and feet, very advanced in that regard. Natural cover skills, very quick recognition and recovery ability. Can turn and run with any receiver. Loves to crash the run. Feisty and plucky and not afraid to show it. Ultra-competitive with a motor that does not quit. Has experience as a return man and a gunner on special teams and enjoys it. Demonstrated coachability and leadership during Senior Bowl week.
Negatives: Ball skills are good, not great. Too happy to fight with the blocker instead of shedding to make the tackle. Big, physical receivers (see Seji Ajirotutu of Fresno State) were able to get separation, and he has not faced off against much NFL-caliber competition. Got away with a lot of holding in press coverage, esp. when the receiver crossed his face. His aggressiveness can be used against him by patient offenses.
NFL Comparison: Darelle Revis
Forecast: Top 20 overall pick with Pro Bowl potential
2. Joe Haden, Florida. 5’11.5”, 193 pounds.
Positives: Exceptional athlete loaded with quick-twitch musculature that he understands how to deploy for football. Great reflexes and quick to react and change direction with control and power. Strong in run support and very difficult to block. Closes on the ball with authority and can highpoint the pass better than most receivers. Very smooth with an economy of movement. Has proven very adept in short coverage and can steer receivers off the line when asked. Not afraid to turn his back to the QB and reads eyes very well to find the ball, though he doesn’t pick off a lot of balls to his own man. Has shown some aptitude at blitzing. Confident without being arrogant. Well-liked and respected by his teammates and coaches.
Negatives: Played boundary corner behind a dominant pass rush that made life easier for him. Only average speed, though he does play faster than he timed at the Combine. Will bite on double moves and had some instances (see Ole Miss game) where he got lost when one receiver stayed short and one went deep and other combo routes. Peaked earlier than most athletically and has never had to really work hard to stay on top, though nobody questions his work ethic.
NFL Comparison: A slower, stronger Carlos Rogers
Forecast: Top 15 overall pick, though he’s far from a slam dunk success.
3. Devin McCourty, Rutgers. 5’11”, 196 pounds.
Positives: Excellent all-around corner and football player. Has experience and proven success at both zone and press coverage. Good feet, fluid hips, controls his hands nicely. Exceptional in run support; strong tackler with sound technique and will chase down all over the field. Quick out of breaks and has good form in and out of his backpedal. Sees the play and reads routes quickly. Translates film study to on-field action like a seasoned pro. Has strong hands and can peel off his man when he sees the throw is going somewhere else to help make more plays. Assumed a great deal of leadership and responsibility after Rutgers graduated two NFL players in the secondary in 2009. Very high character, intelligent student. His twin brother dramatically outperformed expectations and made an immediate impact, and Devin is significantly more highly regarded coming out of Rutgers.
Negatives: Not real big, only average size and strength. Not a real dynamic or explosive athlete. Gives up the inside on crossing routes a little too easily. Doesn’t have a lot more upside than what he is already, which some teams see as a limitation.
NFL Comparison: Ronde Barber
Forecast: Fits in the 30-40 overall range and is probably more ready to handle NFL duties than any other CB in this class.
4. Kareem Jackson, Alabama. 5’10.5”, 196 pounds.
Positives: Very quick, well-coached man coverage corner with innate cover skills and excellent instincts. Very physical for an averaged-sized corner, uses his hands and shoulders to steer the receiver as well as anyone in this class. Reads and anticipates routes and has a great feel for what the offense is trying to do. Quickly flips his hips and adjusts to cuts. Can make the acrobatic catch and has excellent ball skills. Confident, competitive, and poised. Highly respected by his teammates and opponents.
Negatives: Looked uncomfortable playing off-man. Steps in the bucket coming out of his backpedal and has a tendency to over-stride on his first step. Receivers that are physical back to him can hinder his aggressiveness (see Brandon LaFell). Needs improvement at tackling and overall run support effort; too often half-heartedly dives and reaches for tackles and is too easily blocked. Body is only average size and could use some weight room work.
NFL Comparison: Ronald Bartell
Forecast: Has major momentum up draft boards at the right time, which could vault him into the latter halfHof the 1st round, but probably belongs in the 2nd.
