Our defense played better at the end of 2009, but IMO we still have glaring deficiencies. We need to upgrade our back end on D and If we stay at #7, I'd prefer to go defense and would be happy with Berry, Suh or the Haden corner. I'm not a college football freak or a draftnik, and every off-season I formulate most of my draft opinions from what I read on here (death sentence hahaha).
I know Suh and probably Berry will be gone before #7, but of the guys who will realistically be there at #7, who do you want if we take a defender? Would it even be worth it to take a safey that high, since this is supposedly a deep draft at that position?
And, which LB would be worth picking seventh overall if any of 'em? Which LB(s) might be there in the 2nd that could step in and immediately improve our defense?
After Haden and Berry, there isn't a defensive player worth taking at 7 IMO. Rolando McClain (ILB Alabama) is the closest thing, but I don't think the value is there.
Jason Pierre-Paul (DE/OLB USF) could end up in the top 10, but again, the value isn't there IMO. He has a ton of potential, but he is very boom or bust.
In the 2nd, there are a lot more options on defense. Brandon Graham (DE/OLB Michigan) has a slim chance of falling to the 2nd. He's basically a Woodley clone, and my dream pick in the 2nd. Jerry Hughes (DE/OLB TCU) will be available in the mid 2nd. Ricky Sapp (DE/OLB Clemson) will be there at the top of the 2nd.
My thoughts are this: there are 3 guys i'd take with the 7th pick, the 1st is DT N. Suh who is not likely to be available when we pick, the 2nd is FS E. Berry, i'd say the odds on him being there are 50/50 just because the teams that need a FS (KC & Seattle) also have other big needs and the 3rd and mostly likely choice is CB J. Haden. If for some reason all 3 are gone then i'd say we trade down and pick up extra picks, if we can't find a partner to trade down with then i would consider OG M. Iupati and S E. Thomas.
I don't see any LB's worth a 1st rnd pick. I like B. Graham as an OLB but i wouldn't take him till the 2nd rnd. Others i'd consider in the 2nd would be R. Sapp, J. Hughes, and S.Weatherspoon.
I really hadn't heard much about Haden but Deep you seem pretty knowledge about him...what NFL player would you compare him to and if Browns selected him with the 7th, would it be considered a value pick.
I've read some mocks that had him in the 6-15 range, but I've never actually seen him play.
He's a more athletic, but slightly less physical Darrelle Revis.
j/c
Everyone is saying that this draft is Deep at the Safety spot. If that is the case wouldn't it be smarter in taking the best Corner... Haden at #7 then picking up a Safety later... than drafting Berry #7 and looking for corner help later. It seems that the former would give us the better chance of getting two starters out of it.
if I'm reading Heckert right, (and there is NO guarantee that I am) I think he subscribes to the "Best Player Available" drafting plan.
So, I think that it's gonna be real hard to figure what he will do..
Theres also some good value at the cornerback positon that could fall to the second round.
Guy's on the bubble of the first/second that I wouldn't mind having are Patrick Robinson, Kyle Wilson and Dominique Franks.
Although Robinson could very well be a lock for the first round. But every year there are risers and fallers at alot of positions. The first two CB's taken should be Haden and Cox. Then if another corner impresses during the combine and rises up a little bit Robinson could be there in the second. But I think Robinson will be one of the ones to put up eye poping measurables at the combine.
Highly doubtfull we could land both but if our first two picks were Berry and Robinson I would probably pass out.
Not a big Robinson fan. He's my 3rd corner.
Haden is a top 10 pic, Cox is a borderline 1st/2nd rounder.
But basically, the corner and safety positions are both very deep, so you can't go wrong either way.
I feel that theres a strong chance the Jet's could take either Cox or Robinson. My guess is there will probably be 3 cb's taken in the first round.
Hell, I'd take a half Revis in the first round.
I don't see that at all. They have Revis and Dwight Lowery is a plenty good #2.
I do, their corners got smoked in the afc championship game. My ex brother in law is a huge Jet's fan and almost every Jet's fan i've talked to on another board say they need another corner opposite Revis.
Ryans defense strives on good corners.
no one has mentioned Brandon Ghee... If Berry is there at 7, snagging Ghee in the 2nd would boost our secondary to the fullest.
Ryan's D had nothing for corners last year. All he needs is a pass rush.
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Ryan's D had nothing for corners last year. All he needs is a pass rush.
Ryan covets corners, it allows him to get more creative with his pass rush.
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Ryan's D had nothing for corners last year. All he needs is a pass rush.
The Jets had Darelle Revis. And at the end of the year Lito Sheppard (who continued to improve). Whoever their number 2 was is better than our number 2, that's for sure.
If you're talking about this team's D, the pass rush this year was exciting, but our corners/safeties got killed. Our defense was not very good, or even good at all. A number 2 corner who could potentially be our number one (making EW a good number 2!) and someone to play safety would be a huge benefit. Especially if we re-sign DQ and Roth. We'd be able to get off the field on third down and hold our opponents to less points.
I was talking about the '08 Ravens.
How do you know this? His Baltimore defenses always relied on the linebackers and d-line with the corners as an afterthought.
I don't see any chance of him going corner in the 1st.
The corners there were not an after thought.
They had three good corners in Foxworth, Washington and Rolle. Not to mention they have Ed Reed and Landry back there.
Theres no way around it dude, a good secondary is crucial in ANY pass rushing team. That's why Ryan covets corners.
I can't say i'm 100% sure they will draft one in the first round but I will say i'm about 80-20. If they don't go CB in the first I will bet you just about anything they take one in the second round.
Here is a little quote directly from Rex Ryans mouth on how he feels about corners (Revis in paticular)
"I’ll just put it this way: Having Revis allows us to do things that most people don’t do, or have the courage for," Ryan said. "Man coverage. Man-up, and say, ‘Here we are.’ Now, Kerry Rhodes covers a lot of ground. So what may look like cover-2, because of the range Kerry has, might’ve been cover-1. Hey, all I can say is, we’ve got the best corner in the league and I don’t think there’s any dispute about that."
Ryan is not dumb. If you look at the way the league is forming up most good teams in the league have 2-3 good/great receivers now. If you don't have a quality secondary in this league you aren't goign to go very far. With the way the Jet's got manhandled in the AFC championship game you can be sure he will be bringing in a CB early. He was already talking about trying to bring Aso from Oakland even though that might have just been general chit chat).
Ryan never had Foxworth.
They still ignored corner after Rolle and McCalister were over the hill. You really overrated Washington.
Then you talk about safeties. We're talking corners.
And this whole debate is completely irrelevant, and I have no idea why we are having it.
Forgot they brought in Foxworth last year....
But they ignored corner probably because they had 4 4 year pro's or younger, I suppose.
And it actually was relevant because I was talking about who might fall into the second round.
But why we are having it I have no clue, from what I have read from your post's lately you know everything.
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Then you talk about safeties. We're talking corners.
Well then, when looking at the secondary as a whole, a great safety like Ed Reed would also satisfy some of the need to get a corner. And that is a fair point, but a cover corner would help create turnovers and slow down offenses. There is no doubt about it this secondary needs help.
And I do believe that no matter who we get at safety, we cannot have Brandon McDonald, Mike Adams, Hank Poteat, or any other garbage player trying to match up in a situation like when we are against santonio holmes/hines ward and the one of these three bad corners (Mike Adams is a backup safety) is trying to cover one of these good receivers. Unless the weather is awful, it just doesn't work, our corner gets killed and they get a 1st down or a touchdown or whatever.
Improving the secondary is very important for this team no matter what. Ryan runs a high pressure defense and a good secondary would be a great way to compliment it.
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Our defense played better at the end of 2009, but IMO we still have glaring deficiencies. We need to upgrade our back end on D and If we stay at #7, I'd prefer to go defense and would be happy with Berry, Suh or the Haden corner. I'm not a college football freak or a draftnik, and every off-season I formulate most of my draft opinions from what I read on here (death sentence hahaha).
I know Suh and probably Berry will be gone before #7, but of the guys who will realistically be there at #7, who do you want if we take a defender? Would it even be worth it to take a safey that high, since this is supposedly a deep draft at that position?
And, which LB would be worth picking seventh overall if any of 'em? Which LB(s) might be there in the 2nd that could step in and immediately improve our defense?
Seriously doubt Suh would plumment to 7..Berry/Haden could..then it's a toss-up..there are enough safeties in this draft to warrant taking Haden..and anyone who knows me well,I love top notch corners..Haden would come in and immediately put McFluff in the nickle for good or cut loose...
Berry would also start if he were drafted but there are some bigger safeties I like a lot that can be had that are upgrades to Pool/Elam..
Forget any backers at 7 but in the second round Spikes/Weatherspoon are two that I strongly like.
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..Berry/Haden could
What would you do if at 7 both of them, along with Bradford were available? not that I believe that will happen,, just asking
Me??? I'd go Haden..I'd be tempted to go Bradford..it would be close..if I knew I could get one of the other top corners and a solid safety in rounds 2-4..I might go Bradford..but in grading them out Haden would probably be a better corner than Bradford a QB..
I would love to have a shutown corner. If Wright were the second-best CB on our team we'd be in great shape there.
How well did that best def player available help out the houston texans when they let the saints draft reggie bush.
If you think Quinn and Massaquoi are going to lead you to a superbowl on their own then you haven't seen too many playoff games.
If the Browns don't have any investment in the offense they will continue to lack touchdowns, they will continue to have point totals of 3, or 6, or 10 or less.
The defense during the worst games of the past two years, is not failing to give the offense posessions, but the offense is failing to do anything with those posessions.
If you could only invest in one player for the entire off season, if you could only take one gamble on a prospect, which every draft pick is, it has to be offense.
Every addition will change the outlook at the time of the next addition to the roster, but you cannot count on what will be there, draft wise, from round to round, What You Can Count On is what is on your roster right now.
On your roster right now the offensive skilled positions are just not there.
So unless you can argue that you are going to come up with 3 amazing free agents at offensive skilled positions before round 1 of the draft, then the focus and title of this thread is going to lead to more Browns failure.
Help on " D " in the 1st round would be a COLOSSAL MISTAKE!
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Help on " D " in the 1st round would be a COLOSSAL MISTAKE!
No... not taking the best player available at #7 (regardless of what side of the ball he plays on) would be the colossal mistake. Look, we lack playmakers on both offense and defense. If you disagree, just go back and watch the first 11 games again. 
If we stay in the #7 slot, we'll have a shot at a potential difference-maker. I don't care if Holmgren and company pick an offensive or defensive guy there so long as they are convinced the guy we pick is the best football player on the board. You can never have too many good football players on a team. 
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How well did that best def player available help out the houston texans when they let the saints draft reggie bush.
This is your argument against taking a defensive player? The Texans made the right call on that one.
It's a good thing that you aren't running the draft
Would you rather have one of the best defensive ends in the NFL or a backup running back?
I mean, who wouldn't take the running back there. 
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Would you rather have one of the best defensive ends in the NFL or a backup running back?
I mean, who wouldn't take the running back there.
I'm one of the few guys who still defend Reggie.....and there's no doubt Houston made the right call.
not only that, but they got a very similar player to him the next draft in the 2nd round (Slaton)
I like Reggie, but yeah, there is no doubt who is better.
Slaton was actually a 5th rounder.
3rd round.
That was a great draft for running backs. Of course, we decided against drafting one.
Touche. Someone I liked was a 5th rounder that year...
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3rd round.
That was a great draft for running backs. Of course, we decided against drafting one.
Fear us, for we have Travis Wilson!
Oh wait... no we don't.
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if I'm reading Heckert right, (and there is NO guarantee that I am) I think he subscribes to the "Best Player Available" drafting plan.
So, I think that it's gonna be real hard to figure what he will do..
I would agree with that. We have soooooooo many holes that my only expectation is that our #7 pick be a serious impact player... that could be at WR, OT, QB, DE, DT, LB, CB, SS... doesn't really matter but if he is an impact player at any of those positions, the Browns got a lot better and that's the goal.
I think everyone around here is hoping it's a safety though. Right?
yeah, that's kinda what I was driving at. Well, that and we don't have access to the info that teams have about players. So, what you and I might think is the BPA, may not be what Heckert sees..
but I have to believe you are on the money DC.. with all the holes we have, an impact player in any positon you named would be a HUGE improvement...
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I think everyone around here is hoping it's a safety though. Right?
There is only one safety that most people want, if he's gone then it probably won't be a safety. I let myself get my hopes up last year for Curry, then he was off the board and the saga of trading down started. I've vowed to go in more open and less focused on any one player this year... I just want an impact player and I don't really care at what position.
Same here. I got my hopes up for Clay Matthews, especially when we traded down.
I'm starting to think that Eric Berry will actually fall to us at 7.
Seattle and the Chiefs could get him, but I think they focus on offense... either o-line for both. and then Seattle could go RB and get the best RB this year in CJ Spiller. I think Carrol starts his tenure off with a very fast RB.
I can't imagine Spiller going top 10, but the Seahawks could easily go OT or QB. It looks like the Chiefs will go defense. I'm thinking Berry or McClain.
I'm almost to the point where I'm almost willing to bet that KC nor the Seahawks will take Berry.
EricBerry=Pain2quared
Why would you think that? KC and Seattle both have huge needs in the secondary, especially at safety.
At this point, I consider it possible that Berry will be there, but not likely.
In response to, this is your argument against taking a defensive player in the first round, my argument for taking an offensive skilled position player in the first round is that a first round investment on an offensive skilled positon player would most help the team.
On offense, you move the ball and score points. On defense, you force turnovers and try to score on that play, or count on the offense again. On offense you already have the ball.
The argument for Help on "D" in the 1st round, is you are comfortable with the offensive skilled positions already on the team, leading you to success in 2010. Already on the team.
On the team, Jamal Lewis is not returning, Anderson and Quinn both failed to produce last year, and the Receivers are as bad as anytime since the Browns returned in 99 except maybe 2008.
So help on D in the 1st round isn't helping the D as much as neglecting the Offense, and it wouldn't matter if you have all hall of famers on defense if the offense can't score or move the ball the team is going to lose.
There is another argument for help on D in the 1st round that I would buy. It is the argument that anybody can just run right through or pass all day on the Browns defense. I know it is way to easy to pass on the Browns defense, but they didn't give up the rushing yards like in 02 and they did get some stops and turnovers.
If the defense is that bad compared to the rest of the league I didn't see it. If the offense is that great compared to the rest of the league, I still can't ignore the players who aren't returning.
The other argument for defense in the first (and I'm going out on a huge limb here
) is that the best player available might be a defensive player.
What if the best player doesn't make for the best team. There are so many different parts to football that an investment in one area is definetly confined to that area and does almost nothing to improve the other area.
I could see that the best player would always be the best pick if the sport was basketball or tennis.
So I don't always prefer to look at it as looking for the best player, but for looking for the best player at a certain position based on what the makeup of the team is currently.
Suppose you could only pick the best safety or the best quarterback, even if one was clearly the better player, I think the QB would be the obvious pick if you were maybe the 08 Ravens, Where the safety would be the obvious pick if you were maybe the Colts around 2003 or 2004.
Do you think the best player available is the best pick? I only think that applies to teams who have all the pieces in place and probably made the playoffs last year.
On a team with as many holes as we have. YES the best player at just about any position would also be a position of need. Outside of Left Tackle there is no other position I feel can't be upgraded.
You on the other hand feel a pick on the offensive side of the ball would be the only way to go. My opinion is that every position on the defense could use an upgrade.
Not to bump my own thread, I was gonna start a thread on this guy then thought it'd be better here.
Rolando McClain, anyone?
This is a bit old, from midway through the 2009 season, but he
sounds good.
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2010 NFL Draft Prospect Scouting Report:
person
Rolando Mcclain, ILB, Alabama
McClain has been a consistent force for Alabama ever since arriving on campus in 2007. He played in all 13 games as a freshman, and started eight before really exploding into prominence as a sophomore. McClain led the team with 95 tackles last season -- including 12 for a loss -- and was a finalist for the Butkus Award (given to the nation's best linebacker). Through five games of the current season, McClain is playing like he wants to be the winner of that award this time around. He is the undisputed leader of a defense that has been dominant most of the time, and -- at the very least -- able to keep the Crimson Tide undefeated heading into the second half of the 2009 campaign.
The Atlanta, Georgia product is well-respected as one of the biggest hitters and most feared defenders at the college level, and why not? McClain stands in at 6'4'' and 256 pounds and he reportedly runs a 4.6 in the 40-year-dash. That's a scary combination of size and speed to say the least. He has had some minor off-the-field problems in the past, but nothing that has developed into a major red flag or any kind of case for real concern. Plus, he is an Honor Roll student in the classroom and has earned rave reviews from Alabama coaches regarding his work at spring practices. Assuming McClain leaves after his junior season, he could find himself in the Top 10 of the draft if he finishes well and produces at the combine.
McClain is fantastic....hard to tell how much he benefited from having Mt. Cody taking up 2 blockers all the time, but he sure seemed like a beast.
Plenty have noted how rare it is for a ILB to go top10...and many are looking to trade back in this draft, so we might not have an opportunity to do that again.
So, the real question is......is he worth the #7 pick?
I say he is...but my wishlist for the Browns is as such and has been for a long time now:
1. Suh
2. Berry
3. Haden
4. McClain
I've seen his name tossed around on here quite a bit, but I'd never paid any attention to him.
That size & speed combination is rare, and for him to be a top flite ILB as well.... you can bet your bottom dollar that a team like the Ravens will be coveting him as an heir to Ray Lewis.
I can say that I believe I would be perfectly happy with his as the pick, and it even makes me second guess my absolute desire for the first pick to be in our secondary (Berry/Haden).
Just watched come vid on him.. damn.....
So, the real question is......is he worth the #7 pick?
I say he is...but my wishlist for the Browns is as such and has been for a long time now:
Here's another one of those players who when I watched the team play I didn't notice him that much .. just others..so what does that tell me?
I'm not high on him...doesn't mean he won't be a good player..I just didn't notice him..
Now Spikes from Florida I did notice a lot..second rounder..
Yeah if spikes actually does fall to our second round pick, we could do a lot worse than taking him.