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Posted By: candyman92 Holmgren: Tough to fix Tebow's mechanics - 03/03/10 01:21 AM
INDIANAPOLIS -- The transition from Florida quarterback Tim Tebow to Browns president Mike Holmgren in the NFL combine media room was an appropriate one.

Holmgren has long thought it virtually impossible for quarterbacks to make significant changes to their throwing motions and overall deliveries. Tebow, of course, is trying to change his mechanics.

"The things we are looking at right now is, he played in a system offense that used to be unique and is a little bit different than what we ask quarterbacks to do in our league most of the time," Holmgren said. "The second thing is, his motion has been talked about a little bit. It's always been my opinion that is the most difficult thing to change in any quarterback. I've read he has a lot of guys coaching him up on that and he is trying to change it. It's really hard to do, I think, particularly in pressure situations."

I'd be shocked if a Holmgren-coached team drafted Tebow and surprised if a Holmgren-presidented team selected him.

"Do you want a Tim Tebow on your football team?" Holmgren said. "I think absolutely. Absolutely. You need guys like that, players like that. That is an ongoing study that will go right up to the draft as far as we are concerned. I wish him well. I love him as a young man and as a player. It's just how he will translate into our league."


http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcwest/post/_/id/14647/holmgren-tough-changing-tebows-mechanics
Isn't there another Tebow discussion going on in here already?

Or does it just seem like it?
Tim Tebow sees everything and is everywhere!
Mike Holmgren is right (like he needs my validation ).

There is nothing Mike Holmgren will ever say about a quarterback that I disagree with.

However, if Holmgren isn't interested, why would he set out to discourage teams from drafting Tebow? - Which is exactly what he did.
Sorry, but this isn't anything new,, this was posted in the Tebow thread I think either last sunday or maybe even saturday..
Posted By: ClayM57 Re: Holmgren: Tough to fix Tebow's mechanics - 03/03/10 11:44 AM
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Tim Tebow sees everything and is everywhere





Tim Tebow = Tim Couch......????????


Coincedence.....I think not
Posted By: Ammo Re: Holmgren: Tough to fix Tebow's mechanics - 03/03/10 12:10 PM
Holmgren conveniently forgets about the "Grandson of God" factor that factors in when evaluating Timmy Tebow.
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Holmgren conveniently forgets about the "Grandson of God" factor that factors in when evaluating Timmy Tebow.





I hope the Steelers draft Tebow.
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I hope the Steelers draft Tebow.





Why? The kid is a heck of an athlete.. and you know he's not going to be a QB there.. Not with Ben in the lead dog role..

So if they did, they'd find a way to use him to our dismay... Guaranteed...
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I hope the Steelers draft Tebow.





Why? The kid is a heck of an athlete.. and you know he's not going to be a QB there.. Not with Ben in the lead dog role..

So if they did, they'd find a way to use him to our dismay... Guaranteed...




the state of Florida would become Steeler fans. does anyone really want that?
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the state of Florida would become Steeler fans. does anyone really want that?




To be perfectly honest,, I"m not sure it matters all that much to me what Florida does
my motivation is then, hopefully, Ammo and Peen would stop pimping him so hard.

I can't wait for the draft to be over just to have the Tebow pimping in the rear view mirror.
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I can't wait for the draft to be over just to have the Tebow pimping in the rear view mirror.




What if the Browns draft him?
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the state of Florida would become Steeler fans. does anyone really want that?




I live in Florida, and can tell you, THAT ain't happenin'.
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I hope the Steelers draft Tebow.





Why? The kid is a heck of an athlete.. and you know he's not going to be a QB there.. Not with Ben in the lead dog role..

So if they did, they'd find a way to use him to our dismay... Guaranteed...




the state of Florida would become Steeler fans. does anyone really want that?




looks to me like WV and VA are already Steeler fans judging from all the bumpers stickers, hats, jerseys, license plate frames etc.

We need a "barf" smiley.......
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I can't wait for the draft to be over just to have the Tebow pimping in the rear view mirror.




What if the Browns draft him?




I would stay away from Ammo and Peen b/c things will get very "moist" in their neck of the woods.


I actually like Tebow and think he's going to be better than many folks think he will be in the Pros..
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I can't wait for the draft to be over just to have the Tebow pimping in the rear view mirror.




What if the Browns draft him?




Oh man I don't want to imagine how Peen and Ammo will react. It will be like Diam after we drafted Brady on 100 ecstacy pills. Then they will become chronically depressed once he turns into a bust at QB.
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I can't wait for the draft to be over just to have the Tebow pimping in the rear view mirror.




What if the Browns draft him?




Then I hope he becomes the best Tight End we have.
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Then I hope he becomes the best Tight End we have.




we could do a helluva lot worse than him at TE..

Size wise, he's an inch shorter than KW2 and the same weight.

But he's not a flaky kid... he'll stay off motorcycles...

And he would become another Wildcat type option... could be interesting...

I just don't know about his hands.. can't say I ever saw him catching...
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I just don't know about his hands.. can't say I ever saw him catching...




uses his hands, triangle form. even moving lateral on that second catch.

Oh, Cool, thanks for the vid...

Wonder how he'd do with someone draped all over him? or on the run being defended by someone that's an all pro?
Posted By: Ammo Re: Holmgren: Tough to fix Tebow's mechanics - 03/05/10 12:17 AM
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/03/04/gruden-spends-day-tutoring-tebow/

Gruden spends day tutoring Tebow

Posted by Michael David Smith on March 4, 2010 6:40 PM ET
Former Buccaneers and Raiders head coach Jon Gruden spent today tutoring former Florida quarterback Tim Tebow, becoming the latest coach to attempt to do what Urban Meyer didn't: Teach Tebow how to play quarterback in the NFL.

The Tampa Tribune reports that Tebow had a chalk talk session in Gruden's office and then worked out with him on the football field of a local school. Gruden came away impressed.

"I love quarterbacks and today I had a blast," Gruden said. "How can you not root for Tim Tebow? He's a courageous, competitive, play-making, undeniable force. I think he's going to be a great success."

Despite the fact that Tebow reportedly doesn't approve of cursing, he apparently made it out of his workout with Gruden having warm feelings for the coach.

"It was wonderful," Tebow said. (It's surprising he didn't say, "It was a blessing.") "To be able to spend a day with Coach Gruden was a lot of fun. He's got a passion and love for the game that's unrivaled."

Gruden has also worked with Oklahoma's Sam Bradford and Notre Dame's Jimmy Clausen and plans to work with Texas's Colt McCoy before the draft. Perhaps Gruden views this as some homework for when he's calling these quarterbacks' games on ESPN. Or perhaps he'd like to learn as much as he can about them because he expects to be coaching them or coaching against them in the NFL some day.
And how many QB's did Gruden go through will in Tampa?

Is he really a QB expert? lol. or just a fan of QBs?
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And how many QB's did Gruden go through will in Tampa?

Is he really a QB expert? lol. or just a fan of QBs?




well, say what you will, he built a team in Oakland that went to the superbowl the year after he left to join Tampa, which oddly enough played Oakland and won..

I'd say that in Tampa he had that many QB's becuase he was looking for one to take the lead... That doesn't make him someone that doesn't know QB's.. that makes his GM someone that couldn't find him one...

Remember, he learned under holmgren... I guess that doesn't count for anything...

Just saying.. I think sometimes the hatrid for Tebow (I just don't understand it) gets in the way of reason...
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well, say what you will, he built a team in Oakland that went to the superbowl the year after he left to join Tampa, which oddly enough played Oakland and won..




Not so fast my friend!

We all know that Tampa team was created by Dungy and had a great D. Also it's not that hard to win when you have Tim Brown and Jerry Rice at WR.
Posted By: Ammo Re: Holmgren: Tough to fix Tebow's mechanics - 03/05/10 01:28 AM
Could Gruden be doing undercover work for Holmgren regarding Timmy?

Who knows.
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Not so fast my friend!

We all know that Tampa team was created by Dungy and had a great D. Also it's not that hard to win when you have Tim Brown and Jerry Rice at WR.





what's your point, Gruden built the raiders.. and I said that very thing. I never ever gave him credit for building that Superbowl winning tampa team... What he did was take what was there and in short order, took them over the hump..
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Not so fast my friend!

We all know that Tampa team was created by Dungy and had a great D. Also it's not that hard to win when you have Tim Brown and Jerry Rice at WR.





what's your point, Gruden built the raiders.. and I said that very thing. I never ever gave him credit for building that Superbowl winning tampa team... What he did was take what was there and in short order, took them over the hump..




Dungy could have won a superbowl with that team. I just question how legit Gruden is.
He has the size, but I would rather go with someone who has played the position in the NFL before.
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Dungy could have won a superbowl with that team. I just question how legit Gruden is.




But he didn't and Gruden did. and when it was over, Gruden gave Dungy his props..

Are you totally discounting the job that Gruden did in Oakland?
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Dungy could have won a superbowl with that team. I just question how legit Gruden is.




But he didn't and Gruden did.




And Mike Tomlin won with Bill Cowhers team but gave him props too so what's your point?

I think Gruden is very overated as a head coach. He has a career win % of .540.
no one praises tomlin for his QB skills, or anything else.. He's just a coach. lol.
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He has the size, but I would rather go with someone who has played the position in the NFL before.




Has Tebow ever done any blocking before?
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I think Gruden is very overated as a head coach. He has a career win % of .540.




Well, what can I say, I think your assessment of Gruden is flawed,, but it's your opinion and you are welcome to it...
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He has the size, but I would rather go with someone who has played the position in the NFL before.




Has Tebow ever done any blocking before?






He has...I remember on a double reverse to Harvin a few years ago Tebow destroyed some LSU backers....or maybe safety....think it was a backer
Posted By: cfrs15 Re: Holmgren: Tough to fix Tebow's mechanics - 03/08/10 12:32 AM
That counts as blocking I guess. But I think the previous poster meant blocking as in "blocking" not "trick play, oh crap there are guys that might tackle the ball carrier I should hit them".
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That counts as blocking I guess. But I think the previous poster meant blocking as in "blocking" not "trick play, oh crap there are guys that might tackle the ball carrier I should hit them".





I understand that.....but there is no 'oh crap', I have to block...pull up a vid of Tebow running his 40 at the combine..tell me if the size of his thighs look like they belong on a guy who says "OH CRAP" when faced with a physical challenge.


I don't pimp players very often....the last I felt this way about were Hercial Walker and Emmet Smith...I am telling you right now, that kid can't be drafted to early.


He will be a Super Bowl MVP.....there is no doubt in my mind.
Quinn is quite a specimen himself..
Posted By: cfrs15 Re: Holmgren: Tough to fix Tebow's mechanics - 03/08/10 12:52 AM
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He will be a Super Bowl MVP.....there is no doubt in my mind.




Just wanted to repost that. That's all.

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He will be a Super Bowl MVP.....there is no doubt in my mind.




It would be kind of hard for a FB to win it but hey it's Tim Tebow!
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Quinn is quite a specimen himself..






He is....but frankly, he's a pretty boy puss.



Just being honest.
Posted By: Maddog Re: Holmgren: Tough to fix Tebow's mechanics - 03/08/10 05:19 AM
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.the last I felt this way about were Hercial Walker and Emmet Smith




I too felt that way when I watched those two in college and certainly many others did as well. It's notable that Herschel and Emmitt's talents translated directly and obviously to NFL skill sets.

I won't be yelling "OH NO" if we draft Tim. It's just the when / where. What I do believe that is that if the FO makes that decision then there is some semblance of a sensible plan. Holmgren is dead on about changing mechanics imo. Urban Meyer did alright with what Tebow brought to Florida.

I seem to remember a certain legendary Browns QB whose mechanics were not typical to the NFL. What with his awkward looking gait and sidearm throws. Otto Graham was a wingback at Northwestern and he did alright too (yeah I know...historical context).

Either way I am looking forward to the draft. Plenty of picks in what appears to be a deep one.


Quinn's no puss. He might have a mirror fetish though.
Happy Birthday Peen

As for comparing Quinn and Tebow,, there really isn't any comparison.

Quinn was ok in College, Tebow appears to be one of the, if not the Best college QB ever...

How they will compare in the NFL,,,,, Tebow doesn't have to be too good to be better than Quinn..
notice Peen did not say anything about another QB, but RB's...

Everyone knew Hershel Walker would be the ish.... and Most knew that Emmitt Smith would be very good in the league as well.. They both had great collegiate careers..

The QB position is different though.

My problem with Tebow is this... When the pressure gets to him, is he thinking pass first, or run first? If it's run.. He's gonna have a rather short NFL Career.
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notice Peen did not say anything about another QB, but RB's...

Everyone knew Hershel Walker would be the ish.... and Most knew that Emmitt Smith would be very good in the league as well.. They both had great collegiate careers..

The QB position is different though.

My problem with Tebow is this... When the pressure gets to him, is he thinking pass first, or run first? If it's run.. He's gonna have a rather short NFL Career.





I don't want to stay in this thread very long because I know it irritates some people, but I keep hearing how the guy will get killed if he runs the ball.


Most QBs in the NFL don't get hurt outside the pocket. They get hurt inside the 'friendly" confines of the pocket.

You also have to consider the guy is bigger than any back we have on the team...when running he dishes out as many licks as he takes. You might need to start worrying about smaller backers and DBs getting hurt.

This isn't some qb who is just built from the waist up...the guy has some tree trunks for legs.

That doesn't mean the guy can't be hurt just like anyone else isn't exempt from the possibility, but we aren't talking some ragdoll qb who easily gets slammed to the ground. He's bigger than Josh Cribbs. People aren't overly concerned when he takes off running out of the shotgun.

He knows how to curl up and deliver a blow of his own.
thats not the only part though...

if its 3rd and 7, and Tebow runs for the first.. theres a good chance b/c of his run first mentality, he will get caught short of the first down... instead of looking for an open WR, he's looking for an open lane to run..
Posted By: Adam_P Re: Holmgren: Tough to fix Tebow's mechanics - 03/09/10 03:39 AM
I would hope Tebow is bigger than any running back we have. I'd be kind of concerned if we had a 6'4" 240lb RB. Peyton Manning and Tom Brady are bigger than any running backs we have, too...

And as you pointed out, QBs get injured all the time, and a factor in that is that they're not as big as the LBers and DEs that are rushing them. Not even Timmy.
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I would hope Tebow is bigger than any running back we have. I'd be kind of concerned if we had a 6'4" 240lb RB. Peyton Manning and Tom Brady are bigger than any running backs we have, too...

And as you pointed out, QBs get injured all the time, and a factor in that is that they're not as big as the LBers and DEs that are rushing them. Not even Timmy.





LOL....fair point, but I think you know what I was talking about.

Turk...I don't think he has a run first mentality, but I agree he does have a running mentality. I don't think it is something that can't be changed a bit.

Anyway, good talking to you guys about it.

This seems like a good stopping point.
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