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Posted By: candyman92 1st Round Mock - 02/20/11 11:02 PM
1. Carolina Panthers--------Nick Fairley DT/DE, Auburn
2. Denver Broncos----------Patrick Peterson CB, LSU
3. Buffalo Bills---------------Marcel Dareus, DE, Alabama
4. Cincinnati Bengals-------AJ Green WR, Gerogia
5. Arizona Cardinals--------Von Miller OLB, Texas A&M
6. Cleveland Browns--------Da'Quan Bowers DE, Clemson
7. San Francisco 49ers------Prince Amukamara CB, Nebraska
8. Tennessee Titans---------Blaine Gabbert QB, Missouri
9. Dallas Cowboys----------Cameron Jordan DE, California
10. Washington Redskins---Julio Jones, WR, Alabama
11. Houston Texans---------Robert Quinn, OLB, UNC
12. Minnesota Vikings-------Cam Newton, QB, Auburn
13. Detroit Lions-------------Aldon Smith, DE, Missouri
14. St. Louis Rams----------Ryan Kerrigan, DE, Purdue
15. Miami Dolphins----------Mark Ingram, RB, Alabama
16. Jacksonville Jags--------Brandon Harris, CB, Miami
17. New England Patriots----J.J. Watt, DE, Wisconsin
18. San Diego Chargers----Cameron Heyward, DE, Ohio State
19. New York Giants---------Nate Solder, OT, Colorado
20. Tampa Bay Bucs--------Adrian Clayborn, DE, Iowa
21. Kansas City Chiefs------Phil Taylor, DT, Baylor
22. Indianapolis Colts-------Derek Sherrod, OT, Miss St.
23. Philadelphia Eagles------Jimmy Smith, CB, Colorado
24. New Orleans Saints-----Akeem Ayers, OLB, UCLA
25. Seattle Seahawks-------Jake Locker, QB, Washington
26. Baltimore Ravens-------Justin Houston, OLB, Georgia
27. Atlanta Falcons----------Torrey Smith, WR, Maryland
28. New England Patriots---Stefen Wisniewski, C/G, Penn St
29. Chicago Bears----------Tyron Smith, OT, USC
30. New York Jets-----------Muhammed Wilkerson, DE, Temple
31. Pittsburgh Steelers----Mike Pouncey, OG. Florida
32. Green Bay Packers----Gabe Carimi, OT, Wisconsin
Posted By: cfrs15 Re: 1st Round Mock - 02/21/11 12:05 AM
I've said it before and I will say it again. If Bowers falls to us, I will crap myself.

Then again maybe Buffalo grabs Newton, the Bengals take Dareus, and the Cardinals take Gabbert, Green, or Amukara.

That would leave us with the choice of Bowers or Green.
Posted By: E.Ryze19 Re: 1st Round Mock - 02/21/11 02:11 AM
Ive seen quite a few mocks with Cinci taking a WR, I don't get it. They have some decent WRs besides the two jackaholes. Anyway, I hope we get Bowers also.
Posted By: clwb419 Re: 1st Round Mock - 02/21/11 02:39 AM
TO is a free agent. With Chad Whateverhisnameistoday - I think many people think he's going to be released or traded.
Posted By: ThatGuy Re: 1st Round Mock - 02/21/11 04:41 AM
1. Carolina Panthers - Da'Quan Bowers, DE (Clemson)
2. Denver Broncos - Nick Fairley, DT (Auburn)
3. Buffalo Bills - Von Miller, OLB (Texas A&M)
4. Cincinnati Bengals - AJ Green, WR (Gerogia)
5. Arizona Cardinals - Cam Newton, QB (Auburn)
6. Cleveland Browns - Marcel Dareus, DE (Alabama)
7. San Francisco 49ers - Patrick Peterson, CB (LSU)
8. Tennessee Titans - Cameron Jordan, DE (California)
9. Dallas Cowboys - Prince Amukamara, CB (Nebraska)
10. Washington Redskins - Blaine Gabbert, QB (Missouri)
11. Houston Texans - Brandon Harris, CB (Miami)
12. Minnesota Vikings - Robert Quinn, DE (North Carolina)
13. Detroit Lions - Nate Solder, OT (Colorado)
14. St. Louis Rams - Julio Jones, WR (Alabama)
15. Miami Dolphins - Mark Ingram, RB (Alabama)
16. Jacksonville Jags - Ryan Kerrigan, DE (Purdue)
17. New England Patriots - J.J. Watt, DE (Wisconsin)
18. San Diego Chargers - Aldon Smith, DE (Missouri)
19. New York Giants - Derek Sherrod, OT (Miss St.)
20. Tampa Bay Bucs - Jimmy Smith, CB (Colorado)
21. Kansas City Chiefs - Akeem Ayers, OLB (UCLA)
22. Indianapolis Colts - Anthony Castonzo, OT (Boston College)
23. Philadelphia Eagles - Mike Pouncey, OG (Florida)
24. New Orleans Saints - Adrian Clayborn, DE (Iowa)
25. Seattle Seahawks - Jake Locker, QB (Washington)
26. Baltimore Ravens - Aaron Williams, CB (Texas)
27. Atlanta Falcons - Justin Houston, OLB (Georgia)
28. New England Patriots - Dan Watkins, G (Baylor)
29. Chicago Bears - Phil Taylor, DT (Baylor)
30. New York Jets - Muhammed Wilkerson, DE (Temple)
31. Pittsburgh Steelers - Tyron Smith, OT (USC)
32. Green Bay Packers - Cameron Heyward, DE (Ohio State)
Posted By: Sheppard1972 Re: 1st Round Mock - 02/21/11 03:42 PM
I am going to say what everyone is thinking already. I want an impact player at this pick. Give us a star that is going to be around for years. Wasn't a big fan of the pick last year but changed my mind as he got better. Hope to repeat or do better . The Browns need playmakers and lets face it we, the fans, have watched the 1st round be a joke for years. Put good drafts together, FINALLY , so that it can be built on. I also think that this is the first year I am not sold on just one player for the Browns but see that if any number of players are there it is a good thing. There is my 2 cents for what it is worth. Now back to lurking for me.
Posted By: cfrs15 Re: 1st Round Mock - 02/21/11 05:27 PM
Whisenhunt doesn't seem like a guy who would want to take a chance on Newton.
Posted By: HotBYoungTurk Re: 1st Round Mock - 02/21/11 09:25 PM
Quote:

Whisenhunt doesn't seem like a guy who would want to take a chance on Newton.




if he reminds him of Big Ben he will.
Posted By: FL_Dawg Re: 1st Round Mock - 02/21/11 10:56 PM
Revision 1:

1. CAR -- DE, *DaQuan Bowers

2. DEN -- DT, *Nick Fairley

3. BUF -- DL, *Marcell Dareus

4. CIN -- WR, *AJ Green

5. ARI -- CB, *Patrick Peterson

6. CLE -- DE, Cameron Jordan

7. SF -- CB, Prince Amukamara

8. TEN -- QB, *Cam Newton

9. DAL -- OLB, Robert Quinn

10. WAS -- QB, *Blaine Gabbert

11. HOU -- OLB, *Aldon Smith

12. MIN -- DE, *J.J. Watt

13. DET -- OLB, Von Miller

14. STL -- WR, *Julio Jones

15. MIA -- RB, Mark Ingram

16. JAC -- DE, Ryan Kerrigan

17. NE -- DT, *Cory Liuget

18. SD -- OT, Nate Solder

19. NYG -- OT, *Tyron Smith

20. TB -- DE, Adrian Clayborn

21. KC -- LB, Akeem Ayers

22. IND -- OT, Derek Sherrod

23. PHL -- CB, Jimmy Smith

24. NO -- RB, Mikel Leshoure

25. SEA -- QB, Jake Locker

26. BAL -- CB, *Brandon Harris

27. ATL -- WR, *Torrey Smith

28. NE -- OT, Gabe Carimi

29. NYJ -- NT, Phil Taylor

30. CHI -- OT, Anthony Costanzo

31. PITT -- OL, *Mike Pouncey

32. GB -- DT *Muhammed Wilkerson

#1 2nd round
OL, Danny Watkins

* = underclassmen
Posted By: ClayM57 Re: 1st Round Mock - 02/23/11 08:41 PM
General Comment...I see Washington trying to trade up to draft Cam..just my opinon....They might be a nice trade partner to move down to # 10 pick up a 2nd rounder just saying,

Cam Would sell more tickets in Washington than Blaine and thats what Snyder wants
Posted By: cfrs15 Re: 1st Round Mock - 02/23/11 08:43 PM
Seems like Snyder is no longer running the show.

The treatment of McNabb and Haynesworth seem to show that.
Posted By: Brownoholic Re: 1st Round Mock - 02/23/11 09:36 PM
Quote:

General Comment...I see Washington trying to trade up to draft Cam..just my opinon....They might be a nice trade partner to move down to # 10 pick up a 2nd rounder just saying




I don't care who we traded down with, but if we could do this and still land a solid player (JULIO maybe!), I'd be ecstatic.
Posted By: ExclDawg Re: 1st Round Mock - 02/23/11 10:22 PM
Most the mocks I've seen have Green going to Cinci at #4, Miller going to Arizona at #5 ... and some combination of Fairly, Bowers, Dareus and Peterson going to the top 3 and us. Then almost everyone has Gabbert going to San Fran.

Good to know we could be getting a top 3 worthy pick this year.
Posted By: Jester Re: 1st Round Mock - 02/24/11 01:17 AM
I would love to see somebody give up the farm to us to move ahead of SF so they can grab a QB :-)
Posted By: FL_Dawg Re: 1st Round Mock - 02/24/11 01:32 AM
Quote:

General Comment...I see Washington trying to trade up to draft Cam..just my opinon....They might be a nice trade partner to move down to # 10 pick up a 2nd rounder just saying,

Cam Would sell more tickets in Washington than Blaine and thats what Snyder wants




I can see that as a good possibility. Of coarse much of that would depend on the top 5 picks passing on a QB.

The 9ers @ 7 and the Titans @ 8 might either or both look to draft a QB, so it would make since.
I don't think if we draft down it will be much lower then the 10th pick. It would cost too much for us to take the trade.

Unless we trade with NE for their two 1st round picks and I don't think BB will be looking to trade up to the #6 selection.

I personally feel that the 9ers will pass on Newton or Gabert.

I have had the Titans picking Cam Newton @ 8, where most have them taking Gabbert. I think if Washington or let's say Miami wants their pick of QB's they will have to move up to pick #6 or #7
Posted By: Jester Re: 1st Round Mock - 02/25/11 11:03 PM
Didn't want to start a new thread for this so I tacked it on here. I found this mock draft which has some interesting commentary on the picks, so I thought I would share. I only read a couple of them so far but found the Robert Quinn analysis to shed a new perspective on him.

Mac’s mock

AUTHOR: Mackenzie Pantoja | IN: 2011 NFL Draft | COMMENTS: 50 Comments |

I put a lot of time into this mock (just look how long it is). I feel pretty confident with most of my picks.
Enjoy.

1. Carolina Panthers- Nick Fairley, DT, Auburn
The Panthers only have two viable options with this pick. It’s between Green and Fairley. I put some thought into it, and I just couldn’t stop remembering that the Panthers have too many young receivers with potential on the roster to pick Green and too many former 5th/6th round picks with little potential at defensive tackle to not pick Fairley. With the big and athletic David Gettis getting 508 receiving yards in his first year as a 6th round pick out of Baylor in spite of poor quarterback play, receiver doesn’t seem like it is quite as pressing of a need. Gettis could break out. However, I see no talent from the Panthers’ Nick Hayden and Dmitri Landri, so defensive tackle is quite a pressing need. I like Fairley, but it must be understood that he is not at Ndamukong Suh’s level. Suh was the most dominant defensive tackle I have ever seen. They aren’t near the same level. But Fairley has impressive short area quickness, an outstanding array of pass rush moves, solid strength, and he gets impressive leverage on lineman. However, I think his instincts are a tad below average, and I will see him be fooled on a play action. He is still a good prospect.

2. Denver Broncos- Patrick Peterson, CB, LSU
I have taken A LOT of heat for my opinion of Patrick Peterson. Everyone thinks I am crazy. But he seems like a really overrated prospect. I’ve seen him on film, and it feels like he is just a workout warrior. I see him allow so many catches, and make so many mistakes in coverage. Sadly, I don’t have many numbers that backup my opinion, but I want my readers to consider this: am I the only one that has noticed that a lot of teams’ number one receivers seem to get a lot of yards against LSU? Seriously? Last year, Jarius Wright, Markeith Summers, Julio Jones, and Jeff Fuller all got over 68 yards against LSU. That can’t be said about Amukamara, Janoris Jenkins (he is staying in Florida, though), Brandon Harris, Texas’ Aaron Williams, Ohio State’s Chimdi Chekwa, and even Louisville’s Johnny Patrick. Whenever I bring up this point, people will tell me that Peterson only covers one side of the field. I realize this. Most first string corners are going to cover the strong side of the field. But, most number one receivers start at flanker, which is the strong side outside receiver. So, a majority of the time, Peterson will be lined up against the opponent’s number one receiver. I will admit, Peterson is probably the most physically gifted corner I have ever seen. 6’2 and real fast. A lot of talent, but a lot of catches allowed, too. I’ll get deeper into the subject of Peterson later. On the other hand, cornerback is a pressing need for the Broncos. Da’Quan Bowers is another option here too, but the pass rush for the Broncos should improve when Dumervil comes back, and a pass rusher won’t be as much of a need.

3. Buffalo Bills- Da’Quan Bowers, DE, Clemson
I am undecided on my opinion of Bowers. Honestly, I saw half a dozen Clemson games in ’09, and I had so much scouting information of the Tigers that I hardly made an effort to watch them in 2010. I saw two games, and, by sheer coincidence, they were the only two games all season in which Bowers didn’t get a sack (South Carolina and South Florida). The only Bowers I am aware of is the instinctive, strong run stopper (on pace for 73 tackles in ’09 before an injury), but the raw, below average pass rusher (on pace for 4 sacks in 09′ before the injury). Frankly, the Bowers that got 16 sacks in 2010 doesn’t exist to me. I am going to watch the N.C. State vs. Clemson game on ESPN3 in the next couple of days, so I will get back to you guys on my opinion of him as a pass rusher soon. However, I can confidently say that he has phenomenal strength and instincts, and he is among the best athletes I have ever seen. With the release of Marcus Stroud on Wednesday, 3-4 defensive end becomes a must need for Buffalo, and Bowers would be a great fit for the Bills. Although he played in a 4-3 in college, his tremendous 285 pound frame makes him an ideal fit for 3-4 defensive end at the NFL level.

4. Cincinnati Bengals- A.J. Green, WR, Georgia
Drafting A.J. Green right here would be a common sense pick for the Bengals. However, as a resident of Cincinnati, I have come to realize that the Bengals aren’t exactly known for their common sense. Green is outstanding. Watching him play, I can’t help but see a Larry Fitzgerald clone plus a bit more speed, but a bit less bulk. He can jump as well as any receiver I have ever seen, he adds a lot of height to his ridiculous jumping ability, and he does an excellent job of catching the ball at its highest point, just like Larry Fitzgerald. With the expected departures of Chad Ochocinco and Terrell Owens, wide receiver is a vital need, and A.J. Green makes a lot of sense here. But I am skeptical that they will draft him.

5. Arizona Cardinals- Von Miller, OLB, Texas A&M
So far, this is the hardest pick I have had to mock yet. I have been extremely back and forth between the Cardinals drafting Miller and Blaine Gabbert, but with the likely departure of Joey Porter, I decided to choose Miller here. In regards to Miller, I think he is a slightly underrated prospect. His instincts and quickness is above average, but he is a mediocre athlete for a first round prospect and he could afford to improve how he uses his hands. An okay player, and this would be an okay pick.

6. Cleveland Browns- Marcell Dareus, DE, Alabama
I don’t really know what to do with this pick until I know whether Cleveland will be running a 4-3 or a 3-4 this year. Most people say that Marcell Dareus would be a great fit in either, so that’s why I went with Dareus here. But I am not into the idea of Dareus being a defensive tackle. What I have always found is that a heavy 4-3 defensive end transitioning to 3-4 end is usually an easy, seamless transition. Because, let’s be honest; a 5 technique end is a 5 technique end, whether the team he plays on runs a 4-3 or a 3-4. The transition isn’t difficult. But a 3-4 end going to 4-3 defensive tackle or visa versa will be tough. Because going from a 5 technique to a 3 technique will be difficult and will require a long adjustment period. I’d keep Dareus, who played as 5 technique in a 3-4 at Alabama, at end, and away from the Browns if they run a 4-3, but I think Cleveland may draft Dareus regardless of what defense they run. I think he would do better in a 3-4, but I can’t say for sure. Regarding need, Brian Schaefering and Kenyon Coleman are the starting defensive ends right now. They need to upgrade. On another note, I think Dareus is an overrated prospect. I love stats for defensive lineman. And frankly, Marcell Dareus is awful statistically. He got 66 tackles and 11 sacks in his entire career at Alabama (33 tackles each year and 6 sacks as a junior and 5 as a senior). To give my readers an idea how bad that is, Bowers got 67 tackles and 16 sacks this season while playing the same position. These horrible stats despite a high grade from most NFL scouts makes me think of Gerald McCoy from a year ago, who got 32 tackles and 6 sacks his final season at Oklahoma, and struggled with Tampa this season, ranking 5th among rookie defensive tackles in sacks and in tackles. Expect similar numbers for Dareus in the NFL. Dareus lacks quickness, instincts, and change of direction skills and will struggle at the NFL level.

7. San Francisco 49ers- Cam Newton, QB, Auburn
This was a hard pick to mock. I have already dished out my love for Newton in a different post. I love his decision making ability and I do think he is an accurate quarterback. He is an underrated prospect. What made this pick hard to mock was whether I would go with Newton or Blaine Gabbert (even Amukamara is a possibility too). I just think Gabbert is overrated. Most people think Gabbert is a better prospect than Newton. Most people think he is the best quarterback overall. Some will say he is the number one overall prospect. I’ll sum up argument against Gabbert with this statement: how can anyone justify ranking a spread offense system quarterback with the 69th ranked quarterback rating in the FBS as the number one quarterback in the 2011 draft? Gabbert isn’t even a system quarterback. In order to be a system quarterback, he needs to have success in the spread offense he plays in. That can’t really be said about Gabbert. I do like Newton, though, and I bet Jim Harbaugh is smart enough to draft Newton instead of Gabbert. This would be a good pick for the 49ers.

8. Tennessee Titans- Blaine Gabbert, QB, Missouri
As I mentioned in the 49ers pick, I don’t think Gabbert is a very good prospect. I don’t need to reiterate those numbers. Now, I am going to explain why Gabbert isn’t productive. He is a poor decision maker, he is a poor athlete, and he has mediocre accuracy. However, he has impressive arm strength, and he has a very quick release. I don’t like what I have seen from him, and I think he won’t be successful at the NFL level. Quarterback is an obvious need for the Titans though, and I don’t see Tennessee drafting another running quarterback after the Vince Young debacle, such as Jake Locker.

9. Dallas Cowboys- Prince Amukamara, CB, Nebraska
Amukamara is a slightly overrated prospect, but he is a very good fit for the Cowboys and they are in dire need of a corner. Amukamara has average production for a first round corner. Neither excellent nor poor. My issue with him is that if he is going to be a first round corner prospect with mediocre production for a first round corner, he ought to have superior physical tools. Amukamara has average physical ability. He is 6’0 tall and he runs a 4.49 40 yard dash. And to be picked as high as he is despite his production, he ought to be one amazing athlete. Guys that are 6’0 tall and run a 4.49 grow on trees. I’ll need a lot more to be impressed. Terrence Newman is 32, and the Cowboys 26th ranked pass defense won’t get better without Amukamara. This would be an okay pick, but Amukamara is slightly overrated.

10. Washington Redskins- Cameron Jordan, DE, California
If the previous scenarios mentioned all come true, then Washington doesn’t have many options with this pick. The lone other player I really considered with this pick is Alabama’s Julio Jones. I ended up going with Jordan because I feel like that, by now, Washington must know that if they are going to switch from a 4-3 to a 3-4, they absolutely must draft accordingly. In 2009, the Packer switched from a 4-3 to a 3-4 and drafted accordingly, bringing in B.J. Raji and Clay Matthews in the first round of the draft. They made an effort to make sure that the transition from a 4-3 to a 3-4 would go smoothly, and it resulted in the 2nd ranked defense in the NFL in the first season with the new defense. In 2010, Washington went from a 4-3 to a 3-4, and drafted no players in the entire draft that had any experience in a 3-4 in college or would be well suited in a 3-4 at the NFL level, and, not surprisingly, they finished with the 31st ranked defense in the NFL during their first season with the 3-4. The lack of an effort by Washington to change their defensive personnel in 2010 killed them this year, and I don’t think they will make that mistake again. Regarding Jordan, he seems like an underrated prospect. He is an exceptional pass rusher for a 290 pound prospect, he is pretty athletic, he uses his hands well to shed off blocks, he is very versatile, he has a long wingspan, and and he has been very productive at Cal. A good prospect, and this would be a good pick for Washington.

11. Houston Texans- Robert Quinn, DE, North Carolina
Very few people have Robert Quinn falling this far. The Texans (who are switching to a 3-4 this year) really don’t have many options with this pick. They need a pass rusher (23rd ranked pass rush in the NFL), and Quinn fits the bill. The only thing that makes me hesitant is the fact that I don’t like converting a 270 lb end to 3-4 outside linebacker. The best 3-4 outside linebackers in the NFL, such as James Harrison, Clay Matthews, DeMarcus Ware, Joey Porter, and Cameron Wake, are all well under 265. I’ll make an exception for Quinn, whom I believe is fast enough for linebacker at the NFL level. If the Texans stay off Quinn, they will probably draft Adrian Clayborn or Julio Jones, with Jones being a second receiver to Andre Johnson. However, I really think Quinn is an overrated prospect. My main issue with Quinn is his stats. At first glance, his stats appear to be great; 52 tackles, 11 sacks Sophomore year. But let’s take a closer look. Let’s divide the stats from all of the North Carolina games last year based on the strength of the teams Quinn played against. Against The Citadel, East Carolina, Virginia, Georgia Southern, Duke, Boston College, and North Carolina State (7 games), he got ALL of his 11 sacks and 33 of his tackles; against Virginia Tech, Pittsburgh, Florida State, Miami, Connecticut, and Georgia Tech (6 games), he got a mere 19 tackles and 0 sacks! That is a staggering dispersion of stats between teams he played! He made absolutely no impact in games against good teams, yet he dominated against bad teams. First of all, this is pretty awful. I don’t care if he can dominate against whatever tackle the Citadel has. Considering he played in the ACC, he was engulfed and dominated by every lineman that could be considered average that he faced. His lack of production against decent linemen makes me think he won’t be a legitimately good prospect at the NFL level (think: Vernon Gholston, who took over the Big Ten in one of its worst years). But, I will admit this; I have an extremely clouded opinion of Quinn. I can’t get game film on Quinn playing against these bad teams. The five games in which I have seen him play are the ones against the teams I considered good (except I didn’t see him play Georgia Tech). He didn’t get over three tackles or a sack in any of those games. And, honestly, amateur or pro scout, if someone sees an end play 5 games, get 0 sacks and 3 tackles or less in every game, and then get suspended for an entire season, and this scout is told that he is an early first round prospect, would they think he is overrated? Absolutely.

12. Minnesota Vikings- Cory Liuget, DT, Illinois
I want to start out by saying that I don’t think defensive end is the slightest position of need for the Vikings. Although the Vikings have the 20th ranked pass rush in the NFL, it had nothing to do with the play of Ray Edwards and Jared Allen. Somehow, the Williams duo plus every linebacker on the team got a combined 3 sacks. But the 19.5 sacks put up by Edwards and Allen is pretty impressive, and isn’t an issue. Pat Williams is 38 and the Vikings need youth at defensive tackle. Liuget was a late riser whom I haven’t got much game film on yet, but I will see some Illinois games over the next few days on ESPN3. Analysis will come soon.

13. Detroit Lions- Jimmy Smith, CB, Colorado
I considered Ryan Kerrigan, Aldon Smith, and Akeem Ayers with this pick, but I went with Smith because of the Lions’ need for an improvement at corner. I think the Lions are headed in the right direction, so I am not very confident the Lions won’t be smart enough to draft another player, but they need a corner. I haven’t seen much of Colorado this season, but Colorado has the 110th ranked pass defense in the FBS yet most scouts say they will have 2 corners drafted (Smith and Jalil Brown). I can’t be the only one that notices this issue. I haven’t seen much of Smith this season (again, I’ll watch them on ESPN3 soon), but 68 tackles? I have never seen so many tackles from a corner. To get that many tackles, Smith is probably awful in coverage. I see a lot of size speed, but the outlook does not look good. Many people will content that his supporting cast is awful and that’s why the pass defense numbers are so bad. But, how can these people explain Texas? Awful supporting cast for corners Aaron Williams and Curtis Brown in the Big 12, but they can overcome their supporting cast and have the 8th ranked pass defense in the NCAA! Why can’t Smith and Jalil Brown do that with Colorado? Because they aren’t that good! I’ll get back to you guys on Smith later.

14. St. Louis Rams- Julio Jones, WR, Alabama
This was a pretty easy pick. The Rams are in desperate need of a wide receiver, and Julio Jones would be good value at pick 14. Coming into the season, I though Jones was overrated. He got a mere 596 receiving yards sophomore year. But this year, I saw a significant improvement from Jones, getting 1113 receiving yards Junior year. And that improvement in production makes him an underrated prospect. He has impressive size and strength, and he is pretty athletic, but his route running is mediocre and his hands are extremely inconsistent. A great fit for St. Louis.

15. Miami Dolphins- Mark Ingram, RB, Alabama
Mark Ingram would be a good player for the Dolphins. The Emmit Smith comparisons are very apt. He isn’t too fast, but he is a really tough runner with outstanding vision and strength. His is extremely productive, and he has excellent hands. The Dolphins are very desperate for a running back, and Ingram’s yards per carry is ridiculous. A good fit here. Ingram will do well with the Dolphins.

16. Jacksonville Jaguars- Ryan Kerrigan, DE, Purdue
It’s never easy to tell what the Jaguars will do with their picks. This year, I see them drafting either Kerrigan, Aldon Smith, or Adrian Clayborn. I see them drafting Kerrigan because of their recent history of drafting high character guys that don’t have a ton of physical tools (such as Tyson Alualu, Eugene Monroe, and Eben Britton). Kerrigan isn’t fast, but he uses his hands well, and he is absolutely relentless in pursuit. No player on the Jaguars got over 5 sacks last year, which is pretty awful, and Kerrigan could change that.

17. New England Patriots- J.J. Watt, DE, Wisconsin
J.J. Watt would be a very good fit for the Patriots. They’ve gotta pick a 3-4 end. This year, opposite Gerard Warren (who isn’t that good anyway), they used a pretty pitiful rotation of Mike Wright, Ron Brace (who is pretty good, but is best fit for nose tackle), Brandon Deaderick, Myron Pryor, and Kyle Love. Ty Warren will be returning to the Pats this year, but there is no guarantee that he will be healthy, and Watt would be an improvement over Gerard Warren regardless. I also considered Adrian Clayborn and Aldon Smith here. I think Watt’s intangibles is a more natural fit for the Patriots over Clayborn, and Smith’s lack of experience doesn’t make him seem like a great fit for New England. Any of these players would be good here. Watt has underrated quickness, good strength, and he uses his hands well to shed off blocks. Watt would be a good pick here, and I think he is an underrated prospect.

18. San Diego Chargers- Nate Solder, OT, Colorado
I think Solder is the best tackle of this year’s draft class. He is an outstanding athlete with a lot of strength and potential, and he is among the best run blockers of this years draft class. His strength is outstanding, he plays hard, and he is a very productive run blocker, but he has one major flaw in his game; he can’t stay low in pass protection. He has tremendous height, so he really needs to learn how to stay low in pass protection to get good leverage in pass protection. He is a very poor pass blocker for this reason. But he is a small change in fundamentals away from becoming a tremendous player, and I think he has the work ethic to make this change in fundamentals , which makes him an underrated prospect. He will probably replace Jeromey Clarey at right tackle. Adrian Clayborn, who wold probably replace Jacques Cesaire, would be another good option, but Solder would be a good pick.

19. New York Giants- Stephon Paea, DT, Oregon State
This would be a bit of a reach here, but I have absolutely no idea why so many people think the Giants need a lineman. They allowed 16 sacks last season, tied for fewest in the NFL last season, and they got among the most rushing yards of any team in the league. Offensive line is not an issue. I am not to0 high on Paea. He is very short, he is poor at using his hands, and he isn’t the best athlete. However he has impressive strength, and he would be an upgrade over Chris Canty. This pick would be as reach, but the Giants don’t have many options.

20. Tampa Bay Buccaneers- Adrian Clayborn, DE, Iowa
Clayborn is a good prospect, and would be a great fit for Tampa at pick 20. Tampa is in desperate need of a defensive end. Their leading pass rusher last year, Stylez White, got 4.5 sacks last year, and Clayborn would be a good fit for Tampa Bay. He is very athletic, he uses his hands well to shed off blocks, he is instinctive, and he has good strength. He also has a lot of quickness off the ball and he plays very hard. However, he did regress as a pass rusher this year, and he has some character issues. However, his on field intensity makes not worry as much about his character issues and makes me think he is an underrated prospect. A good player and a great fit for Tampa.

21. Kansas City Chiefs- Aldon Smith, OLB, Missouri
With Mike Vrabel at the age of 35, the Kansas City Chiefs need an outside linebacker, and Aldon Smith would be a great fit in a 3-4 outside linebacker position. I love Smith and it kills me to have him fall this far in a mock. I will be honest; Smith’s athleticism is overrated. It’s slightly above average. Nothing that special. Not as good as everyone says it is. But that doesn’t mean he is an overrated prospect. I have never seen a player that has learned the fundamentals of football as quick as he has. He played wide receiver in high school, but in redshirt freshman year, he was one of 6 players in the country with 60 or more tackles and 10 or more sacks. A redshirt freshman new to defensive end with those kind of numbers? Unbelievable. His numbers make him really underrated. Not only that, but his greatest strength is his uses of hands. His array of pass rush moves is astounding and nothing short of perfect, he has outstanding short area quickness, and he has suddenness with the use of his hands. I will never know how he managed to become such a polished player with the use of his hands in such a short amount of time, but it is astonishing. Smith is a great player, he is such a quick learner that I have absolutely no fear in how well his transition to linebacker will go, he has the instincts and speed for linebacker, and he will have success wherever he goes. This would be a good pick for Kansas City.

22. Indianapolis Colts- Justin Houston- DE, Georgia
I know I am in the minority with this pick, but why not? Houston would be a bit of a reach here, but I have absolutely no idea why so many people think the Colts need a lineman. They allowed 16 sacks last season, tied for fewest in the NFL last season. The Colts tend to crave undersized defensive ends in their 4-3, with the 6’1 Dwight Freeney and the 245lb Robert Mathis starting at end, Mathis is a free agent 2012 and is unhappy with his contract, and the Colts don’t have a history of drafting players for need (Mike Pollak when they have Jeff Saturday and Donald Brown when they have Addai come to mind). At 255lbs, Houston fits their history of undersized speedy pass rushing defensive lineman and makes a lot of sense here.

23. Philadelphia Eagles- Gabe Carimi, OT, Wisconsin
Philadelphia doesn’t exactly have many options with this pick. They really need an offensive tackle to play opposite Jason Peters (Winston Justice was awful last year), and Carimi’s run blocking ability would really help the Eagles. He is tall, athletic, and strong but he really needs to improve his ability to combat pass rush moves and good fundamentals. This would be a solid pick.

24. New Orleans Saints- Mike Pouncey, C, New Orleans
I considered Muhammad Wilkerson here, but Jonathan Goodwin isn’t a very good center and Mike Pouncey would be an improvement here. Mike isn’t as good as his brother. He fails to snap the ball successfully often, and he isn’t actually a great blocker, but he has the on field awareness to make valuable audibles and line calls before the play. Would be a decent pick.

25. Seattle Seahawks- Brandon Harris, CB, Miami
I have always loved Harris, whom would be an immediate impact on the Seahawks 27th ranked pass defense in the NFL. I agree with everything my colleague Jesse Bartolis said about Harris. I love Harris’ intangibles and fluidity as an athlete. And Harris would be a major improvement over Kelly Jennings immediately. This would be a good pick.

26. Baltimore Ravens- Akeem Ayers, OLB, UCLA
I considered Aaron Williams here, but the Ravens need an improvement at outside linebacker opposite Terrell Suggs, and Ayers could be the guy. Jarrett Johnson got only 1.5 sacks at outside linebacker last year for the 27th ranked pass rush in the NFL (I can’t believe it either), and that’s unacceptable in a 3-4 defense. Ayers is an athletic linebacker that has a lot of coverage skills and strength, but he is a raw prospect. He could afford to improve his instincts, and he is poor with the use of his hands, but he has great height and athleticism that would allow him to be a playmaker in a 3-4 at the NFL level. His pass rush skills (4 sacks at 4-3 outside linebacker, which is pretty rare) would be a good fit for Baltimore, and this would be a good pick.

27. Atlanta Falcons- Torrey Smith, WR, Maryland
I love Torrey Smith and I think he will be a pro bowl receiver at the NFL level, and the Falcons are in desperate need of a receiver that will play opposite Roddy White, but I don’t feel too confident with this pick because Smith is an exact clone of Roddy White. They couldn’t be much more alike. Smith would be an immediate improvement over Michael Jenkins, but Smith isn’t the tall back-of-the-end-zone threat that would be an ideal compliment to White. White and Smith are identical prospects. It’s almost spooky. They are both 6’1, run a sub 4.45 40, one has a 14.5 career yards per catch (Smith), the other has a 14.1 career yards per catch (White), and, if this mock comes true, they would both be 27th overall picks by the Falcons! They are also both excellent route runners and fluid athletes, but the both will trap some passes against their frame. The resemblance is unbelievable. And, even though Smith is a great player, he isn’t the big receiver that will make catches in the back of the end zone that would be a good compliment to White. He is White. Part of the reason I like think Smith is underrated is because of his resemblance to White. I have a feeling they will have identical careers. But they aren’t the best compliments to each other. However. considering how well the Donald Driver/Greg Jennings tandem worked out for Green Bay the past few years, I think the same could happen with White/Smith. And that’s why I think Smith will go here. And he will be a great player.

28. New England Patriots- Mikel LeShoure, RB, Illinois
In a few days, I am going to come out with an article about taking running backs in the first round. To be honest, in this scenario, I see the Patriots trading down as usual, but, if they pick anyone, I think it will be LeShoure. In this mock, the Patriots have very few options with this pick. They end up filling their biggest hole by drafting J.J. Watt for defensive end at pick 18, all the top tier outside linebackers are already taken, and they have the option to reach on a big receiver like Jonathan Baldwin, but it doesn’t sound like Patriots football to reach on a player. I ended up going with LeShoure because, even with the emergence of BenJarvus Green-Ellis (an awesome name), the Patriots have a history of using multiple running backs, and Danny Woodhead is too small for a major workload. LeShoure is an underrated prospect that is big, and he moves really well for a 230lb back (think Steven Jackson), plus he has been very durable and his vision is excellent. Also, considering Illinois never passes, his receiving numbers are insane for a big back. He has absolutely no downside whatsoever.

29. Chicago Bears- Tyron Smith, OT, USC
This scenario would make the Bears extremely happy. The only thing that could possibly stop the Bears from drafting Smith is the historical ineptitude of the Bears scouting department when drafting offensive linemen. They always turn out terrible. And it may make the Bears draft some other lineman, aka Castonzo. Smith is a solid player. To me, he always seemed like a “jack of all trades, but the master of none,” kind of tackle. I see good (but not great), athleticism, intangibles, strength, on field awareness, and polish from Smith. He is among the safest picks among all linemen in the draft, but he also doesn’t have a very high ceiling. This would be a good pick for the Bears, and an immediate improvement on a Chicago offensive line that allowed the most sacks in the NFL last season.

30. New York Jets- Muhammad Wilkerson, DE, Temple
As I have said before, I hate making a player transition from defensive tackle to defensive end when switching him from a 4-3 defense to a 3-4, but Muhammad Wilkerson is a good player. Because I don’t like making these guys change positions, I feel that Cameron Heyward would be a better pick here, but I adore Muhammad Wilkerson. He is an outstanding pass rusher (which is why most think he would do well at end) for a defensive tackle, he is pretty athletic, he uses his hands well to shed off blocks, and his numbers are just ridiculous (68 tackles and 10 sacks in 2010), but he has mediocre short are quickness. He is an underrated player, but I still think he would be better suited for defensive tackle. This would be an okay pick for the Jets.

31. Pittsburgh Steelers- Anthony Castonzo, OT, Boston College
This is an easy pick to mock. The Steelers offensive line has been horrendous for a while, and Castonzo would probably start immediately. I always thought he was overrated. He is an awful pass blocker and his strength is mediocre, but he is a solid athlete with good size and some potential. This would be a decent pick for Pittsburgh.

32. Green Bay Packers- Cameron Heyward, DE, Ohio State
My favorite team is pretty lucky (I’m from Cincy, but my mom is from Green Bay). Rarely does a Super Bowl winning team have a need that will be easy to fill with their first pick. As mentioned before, most of Packers needs the Packers have will be filled via injured players returning, but the Packers have two needs that won’t be filled this way; 3-4 end opposite Cullen Jenkins and 3-4 outside linebacker opposite Clay Matthews. Ryan Pickett is a good player, but at 340lbs, it’s amazing that the Packers survived with him playing end. Frank Zombo isn’t a long term solution at outside linebacker. And it would take a miracle for Heyward, Akeem Ayers, J.J. Watt, Aldon Smith, Muhammad Wilkerson, Cameron Jordan, Justin Houston, and Christian Ballard to all be drafted before Green Bay picks. So Green Bay will have an easy pick to make. With 4 sacks this year, Heyward is slightly overrated due to his poor numbers, but he is an ideal fit for 3-4 defensive end because of his bulk and experience at defensive end. Heyward has solid strength and quickness, but he is inconsistent and he has mediocre athleticism. But this would be a good, easy pick for the Packers.

http://nflmocks.com/2011/02/19/mackenzies-first-mock/
Posted By: candyman92 Re: 1st Round Mock - 03/21/11 03:08 PM
1. Carolina Panthers--------Marcel Dareus, DT, Alabama
2. Denver Broncos----------Da'Quan Bowers, DE, Clemson
3. Buffalo Bills--------------Cam Newton, QB, Auburn
4. Cincinnati Bengals-------AJ Green, WR, Georgia
5. Arizona Cardinals--------Von Miller OLB, Texas A&M
6. Cleveland Browns--------Nick Fairley, DE/DT, LSU
7. San Francisco 49ers------Patrick Peterson, CB, LSU
8. Tennessee Titans---------Blaine Gabbert, QB, Missouri
9. Dallas Cowboys----------Prince Amukamara, CB, Nebraska
10. Washington Redskins---Julio Jones, WR, Alabama
11. Houston Texans---------Robert Quinn, OLB, North Carolina
12. Minnesota Vikings-------Jake Locker, QB, Washington
13. Detroit Lions-------------J.J. Watt, DE, Wisconsin
14. St. Louis Rams----------Aldon Smith, DE, Missouri
15. Miami Dolphins----------Mark Ingram, RB, Alabama
16. Jacksonville Jags--------Ryan Kerrigan, DE, Purdue
17. New England Patriots----Cam Jordan, DE, California
18. San Diego Chargers----Muhammad Wilkerson, DE, Temple
19. New York Giants--------Tyron Smith, OT, USC
20. Tampa Bay Bucs--------Justin Houston, DE, Georgia
21. Kansas City Chiefs------Phil Taylor, DT, Baylor
22. Indianapolis Colts-------Anthony Castonzo, OT, BC
23. Philadelphia Eagles------Jimmy Smith, CB, Colorado
24. New Orleans Saints-----Adrian Clayborn, DE, Iowa
25. Seattle Seahawks-------Mike Pouncey, C/G, Florida
26. Baltimore Ravens-------Brandon Harris, CB, Miami
27. Atlanta Falcons----------Derek Sherrod, OT, Miss State
28. New England Patriots---Stefen Wisniewski, C/G, Penn State
29. Chicago Bears-----------Nate Solder, OT, Colorado
30. New York Jets-----------Cameron Heyward, DE/DT, Ohio State
31. Pittsburgh Steelers----Gabe Carimi, OT, Wisconsin
32. Green Bay Packers----Brooks Reed, OLB/DE, Arizona
Posted By: anarchy2day Re: 1st Round Mock - 03/21/11 04:23 PM
Quote:

6. Cleveland Browns--------Nick Fairley, DE/DT, LSU
7. San Francisco 49ers------Patrick Peterson, CB, LSU




Why the hell would anyone seriously consider Fairley over Peterson if Peterson is sitting there?

Any chance you get to make an opposing team one dimensional, you take it.

Of course, this is only my opinion.
Posted By: HotBYoungTurk Re: 1st Round Mock - 03/21/11 06:34 PM
Not only urs but mine too. Lol
Posted By: AndraDavis4MVP Re: 1st Round Mock - 03/21/11 07:07 PM
DL > CB. Also perhaps fairley takes away the run game, that would then be taking one aspect away.
Posted By: HotBYoungTurk Re: 1st Round Mock - 03/21/11 07:59 PM
Bpa standArds says: Peterson > fairley. Atleast in my book.
Posted By: AndraDavis4MVP Re: 1st Round Mock - 03/21/11 08:10 PM
I'm not high on Fairley, underszed Dts who penetrate are always worrisome to me, see Peria Jerry or Glenn Dorsey. I was making the arguement for Dline in general.
Posted By: YTownBrownsFan Re: 1st Round Mock - 03/21/11 08:14 PM
Whichever of these guys Heckert decides on will be fine by me.

I suspect that 2 QBs and Peterson will be gone before we pick. I could see a situation where 2 QB, Peterson, Green, and Miller are all gone ..... and we have a choice between whatever DL Denver doesn't take.

I dunno though .... if it comes down to Fairley, Peterson, and either Bowers or Dareus ..... who do you take?

I'd be hard pressed to pass on a real force on the DL. If you can pressure the QB and help stop the run at the DL level, you help your LBs and secondary quite a bit.

I think we're going to have a hard decision when our pick rolls around.
Posted By: no_logo_required Re: 1st Round Mock - 03/21/11 08:43 PM
I hope you are right. I really want our FO to have a hard decision between 2 of the 3 best players in this draft (Bowers, Dareus, Peterson).

at that point, whichever player we pick, we win (personally, the above order is the order in which I would pick them but I wouldn't mind any other order either)
Posted By: CapCity Dawg Re: 1st Round Mock - 03/21/11 08:56 PM
Quote:

I could see a situation where 2 QB, Peterson, Green, and Miller are all gone ..... and we have a choice between whatever DL Denver doesn't take.





If those 5 guys are gone when we pick, then Denver did not take a DL.
Posted By: no_logo_required Re: 1st Round Mock - 03/21/11 09:02 PM
Quote:

Quote:

I could see a situation where 2 QB, Peterson, Green, and Miller are all gone ..... and we have a choice between whatever DL Denver doesn't take.





If those 5 guys are gone when we pick, then Denver did not take a DL.




I assume he has us trading down 1 spot to pickup an extra 2nd round pick because 2 DL guys that were tied on our board were still there
Posted By: YTownBrownsFan Re: 1st Round Mock - 03/21/11 09:13 PM
Quote:

Quote:

I could see a situation where 2 QB, Peterson, Green, and Miller are all gone ..... and we have a choice between whatever DL Denver doesn't take.





If those 5 guys are gone when we pick, then Denver did not take a DL.




Ooops. LOL Well, we might even have a choice between either guy then.

The fun (and funny) part about this draft is that most of the usual "premium" positions (QB, LT, RB, OLB, CB) are fairly week, and really lack depth, and this could "panic" some teams into overvaluing talent in order to fill positions. DL is incredibly deep, and we should see a DL in the 2nd round available who might ordinarily warrant 1st round consideration.

This draft could, and should work out very well for us as the position we are weakest at is the position where this draft is deepest.
Posted By: no_logo_required Re: 1st Round Mock - 03/21/11 09:16 PM
I don't think that CB is weak this year at all. Neither at the elite level or depth.

Outside of that, I agree and hope it plays out that way.
Posted By: ExclDawg Re: 1st Round Mock - 03/21/11 10:08 PM
Quote:

I suspect that 2 QBs ... will be gone before we pick.




Gawd, I hope so! That would likely leave 3 of the top players in the draft left on the board.

I don't really see the QB's going that high though, unless someone trades up in desperation. "Worst case" scenerio would probably be (and the way I see the draft going right now):

1. Carolina Panthers--------Da'Quan Bowers DE, Clemson
2. Denver Broncos----------Patrick Peterson CB, LSU
3. Buffalo Bills---------------Marcel Dareus, DE, Alabama
4. Cincinnati Bengals-------AJ Green WR, Gerogia
5. Arizona Cardinals--------Von Miller OLB, Texas A&M
6. Cleveland Browns--------Nick Fairley DT/DE, Auburn
7. San Francisco 49ers------Blaine Gabbert QB, Missouri
8. Tennessee Titans---------Cam Newton QB, Auburn

"Worst" being that Fairly is the one guy with a few red flags. If any of the QB's get taken in front of us, that just means one more "elite" guy to chose from that I would happily take.
Posted By: FL_Dawg Re: 1st Round Mock - 03/21/11 10:27 PM
With 4 of the 5 teams picking ahead of us in need of a QB, I'll be a little shocked if one doesn't pull the trigger on a QB. Heck I wish 3 of them would take a QB in the top 5, but I don't see that as being too realistic. Maybe a team like the Redskins at 10 tries to trade up too who knows teams make panic decisions every year. Some times it works out.
Posted By: PStu24 Re: 1st Round Mock - 03/21/11 10:46 PM
What is (in everyone's opinion) the % chances that we are flat out surprised on draft day without a trade down? I mean last year a lot of people "mocked" us taking Haden or Berry if he fell. But this year what if it's someone that we have no idea?

I mean, is there really a chance that if a guy like Green or Peterson or Bowers or Dareus is still on the board ... what are the chances that we take a Watt, Kerrigan, Amukara, or another real good player that many have seemed to overlook with the 6th pick?
Posted By: no_logo_required Re: 1st Round Mock - 03/21/11 10:57 PM
Quote:

I mean, is there really a chance that if a guy like Green or Peterson or Bowers or Dareus is still on the board ...




well, that's 4 players and there are 5 picks ahead of us. if 2 picks ahead of us go QB and/or Von Miller, then one of those 4 will be there. Most have at least one QB going top5 and I haven't seen a mock without Von Miller in the top5, so I would say the odds are pretty good, but you never know.
Posted By: PStu24 Re: 1st Round Mock - 03/22/11 12:06 AM
Right, but that's not what I asked. What I was saying was IF those guys are still there (which should happen) what are the chances that we actually let them slide by and take a player that many think is a reach ... similar to how TJ Ward was a good pick but there were more talented players on the board at the time?

I just want to know if anyone thinks that if Green or Dareus (or whoever) is on the board .. that we PASS on them?
Posted By: cfrs15 Re: 1st Round Mock - 03/22/11 12:30 AM
Quote:

similar to how TJ Ward was a good pick but there were more talented players on the board at the time?




How do we know our front office didn't think Ward was the most talented player available?

After the way he played last year it seems like he might have been more talented than anyone else at that point.

The only guys that I see that might be more talented (and taken after Ward in the 2nd round) are Rob Gronkowski and Carlos Dunlap.

On to your main point...

Quote:

I just want to know if anyone thinks that if Green or Dareus (or whoever) is on the board .. that we PASS on them?




No. If one of those two is there I think that has to be the pick. (Assuming Peterson is gone also.)
Posted By: clevesteve Re: 1st Round Mock - 03/22/11 03:50 AM
I think it's waaaaay more likely they pass on Green than on Dareus. You don't find tackles as big, strong, and athletic with no motivation problems like Dareus. The drop off in talent at DT from Dareus and fairley to the next tier is so huge in my opinion that they'd be crazy not to take Marcel if he's available.
Posted By: anarchy2day Re: 1st Round Mock - 03/22/11 04:19 AM
Quote:

DL > CB.



Not in my opinion.

Quote:

Also perhaps fairley takes away the run game, that would then be taking one aspect away.




Perhaps, but Peterson and Haden absolutely take away the passing game.
Posted By: anarchy2day Re: 1st Round Mock - 03/22/11 04:23 AM
Quote:

I dunno though .... if it comes down to Fairley, Peterson, and either Bowers or Dareus ..... who do you take?



Peterson for reasons already stated.

Quote:

I'd be hard pressed to pass on a real force on the DL. If you can pressure the QB and help stop the run at the DL level, you help your LBs and secondary quite a bit.



If you take away an opponent's ability to pass the ball, you make the job of the DL and LBs easy.
Posted By: anarchy2day Re: 1st Round Mock - 03/22/11 04:27 AM
Quote:

I don't think that CB is weak this year at all. Neither at the elite level or depth.

Outside of that, I agree and hope it plays out that way.




I agree that this draft isn't all that weak at the CB position, but I still want the best one we can get. If Peterson is there, in my estimation, you have to select him. No doubt about it.
Posted By: anarchy2day Re: 1st Round Mock - 03/22/11 04:32 AM
As Von Miller is part of the lawsuit against the NFL (and thereby, the owners), I think he's hurting his stock value as a complainant. He might get drafted that high anyway, but I would not be surprised to see him fall (and possibly, quite dramatically) because of it.
Posted By: AndraDavis4MVP Re: 1st Round Mock - 03/22/11 12:34 PM
Quote:

I dunno though .... if it comes down to Fairley, Peterson, and either Bowers or Dareus ..... who do you take?




Dareus for me.
Posted By: E.Ryze19 Re: 1st Round Mock - 03/22/11 11:37 PM
I absolutely take Dareus over Peterson. BPA? Who knows? But one thing is for sure, with the defensive changes coming, a stud DL would be the BPA for the Browns.
Posted By: anarchy2day Re: 1st Round Mock - 03/23/11 01:15 AM
Quote:

I absolutely take Dareus over Peterson. BPA? Who knows? But one thing is for sure, with the defensive changes coming, a stud DL would be the BPA for the Browns.




Interesting that you say that. I remember the Browns drafting the best DL in the draft a few years and getting next to nothing for it. To be fair, we didn't have anything in secondary, which made the job of the DL that much more difficult.

I still say that having the cornerbacks that can actually cover and hard-hitting safeties looking to lay some smack on a receiver will improve your defense more than an DL will.

That isn't to say that you can just plug anyone in the DL. Those players still have to have skills to stop the run or eat up the blocks so the LBs can make the stops on run plays or get the sacks on pass plays. But as long as the threat to go deep exists, you're not going to be able to successfully stop either the run or pass.
Posted By: AndraDavis4MVP Re: 1st Round Mock - 03/23/11 12:22 PM
If you're refering to Country Brown the guy couldn't stay on the field. He played well when on the field though. Gerrard Warren was a solid player, that was perhaps over evaluated/over drafted coming out of college. I know reputable sites like OBR has always defended him to a bit saying he was a good player. Granted his comments about "big money" didn't sit well with Browns fans.
Posted By: clevesteve Re: 1st Round Mock - 03/23/11 12:33 PM
Big penny!

Always gregarious.
Posted By: PeteyDangerous Re: 1st Round Mock - 03/23/11 02:15 PM
Quote:

If you're refering to Country Brown the guy couldn't stay on the field. He played well when on the field though. Gerrard Warren was a solid player, that was perhaps over evaluated/over drafted coming out of college. I know reputable sites like OBR has always defended him to a bit saying he was a good player. Granted his comments about "big money" didn't sit well with Browns fans.




Is that a joke? Big Penny was not much of a player at all. He was pretty useless in the run game, and he wasn't particularly good at the pass rush.

He had no discipline which left our defense trying to fix the mistakes that he was making. Especially under Dave Campo's system where he was supposed to be disciplined and let the linebackers make more of the plays. He was selfish, and put our defense out of position against the run

Isn't he the one who made that line before playing the Steelers and Roethlisberger

"Cut off the head, and the team is dead" or something like that.

Big Penny was NOT a good D-Linemen. Is he NFL caliber, yes. But GOOD, no way!
Posted By: AndraDavis4MVP Re: 1st Round Mock - 03/23/11 02:42 PM
Sounds to me like the GM then didn't draft a player to fit the coach's system.
Posted By: PeteyDangerous Re: 1st Round Mock - 03/23/11 02:48 PM
Quote:

Sounds to me like the GM then didn't draft a player to fit the coach's system.




And the GM (might as well have been Butch Davis), drafted Big Penny over LT and Richard Seymour, when all the scouts said the guy wasn't that good.

What system has Big Penny been good in? He wasn't GOOD in Denver, and I think he's in New England now, and he's not particularly good for them.

The guy had a big mouth, didn't back it up, he had lazy practice habits. He was undisciplined, bad against the run, and only concerned with trying to get to the QB while leaving his teammates out to dry (which he wasn't even that good at, if you're Albert Haynesworth you can be undisciplined, Big Penny no way).

Other than being able to stay in the NFL, he has not been a good NFL player. Mediocre, may be. Good, no way.
Posted By: Rambo Re: 1st Round Mock - 03/23/11 04:19 PM
I remember every summer back then there was a story on how Gerard Warren was feeling rejuvinated and ready to have a monster season. Too bad it never happened.
Posted By: anarchy2day Re: 1st Round Mock - 03/23/11 11:33 PM
I'm referring to both of them. I'd also throw in Shaun Rogers in that mix.

Give me shutdown corner over the best DL in any draft EVERY TIME. If I already had two shutdown corners and another one was available, I'd select him and have three shutdown corners in my backfield.

I might be convinced to select an outrageous sack machine LB like Lawrence Taylor or Derrick Thomas, then I might be willing to take them over a third shutdown corner.
Posted By: anarchy2day Re: 1st Round Mock - 03/23/11 11:41 PM
Yes, I know we didn't draft Shaun Rogers. We got him from Detroit. The same applies. He was brought in to be a force on the DL. Never happened. We would have been better served getting a quality DB.
Posted By: AndraDavis4MVP Re: 1st Round Mock - 03/24/11 12:39 PM
Shaun Rogers in 2007 was a force and about the only decent Dlineman we had.Guy player his heart out.; Injuries and scheme changes along with butting heads with the coach plus age kept him off the field since.
Posted By: cfrs15 Re: 1st Round Mock - 03/24/11 06:11 PM
Quote:

Give me shutdown corner over the best DL in any draft EVERY TIME.




Reading this I thought, "WHAT!?!?!"

Why would anyone think you would want the shutdown corner over the best D-Linemen in the draft....EVERY TIME?

So I've done a little research. Since 1995 the following corners have been taken after the 1st round (I know not all are "shutdown corners" but that is a hard term to define. So I just picked out the guys I thought were very good. Please click on the links to see the players' career stats and draft round):

Bobby Taylor
Donnie Abraham
Ronde Barber
Sam Madison
Al Harris
Samari Rolle
Patrick Surtain
Mike McKenzie
Dre' Bly
Ken Lucas
Asante Samuel
Rashean Mathis

So that's twelve guys since 1995 that have been very good corners for most of their career.

In that same time span here are the same criteria (very good corner) drafted in the 1st round:

Ty Law
Charles Woodson
Champ Bailey
Chris McAlister
Antoine Winfield
Nate Clements
Terrence Newman
Marcus Trufant
Nnamdi Asomugha
Chris Gamble
Darrelle Revis
Leon Hall
Joe Haden

That's thirteen guys since 1995 that have been drafted in the first round and been very good most of their careers. (Twelve if I wasn't a homer and didn't throw Joe Haden in there). I will admit, the second list has better overall talent (Woodson, Bailey, Asomugha, Revis).

Now, let's look at how many very good defensive ends (I'm going to separate defensive ends and tackles because they are very different positions, I didn't include safeties in the corner discussion) have been taken after round one since 1995 (this list doesn't include players that would have been defensive ends but got drafted by a 3-4 team, i.e. DeMarcus Ware, LaMarr Woodley):

Jason Taylor
Leonard Little
Aaron Smith
Kabeer Gbaja-Biamila
Aaron Schobel
Osi Umenyiora
Robert Mathis
Jared Allen
Trent Cole

Nine defensive end drafted after the second round turned out to be very good players. There's even one Hall of Famer in there (Jason Taylor).

Now the defensive ends that were drafted in the first round since 1995 that were very good:

Kevin Carter
Hugh Douglas
Simeon Rice
Jevon Kearse
Patrick Kerney
Shaun Ellis
John Abraham
Richard Seymour
Julius Peppers
Dwight Freeney
Mario Williams
Tamba Hali

So twelve. And out of those twelve Rice, Kearse, Abraham, Seymour, Peppers, Freeney, and Williams are all about on the same level as Revis, Bailey, Woodson, and Asomugha. And it is well known in the NFL that if you can get a elite pass rush you don't need elite corners to shutdown the other teams' receivers (i.e. the Steelers the past few years).

This got me to thinking, "Well yeah, you're better off taking a defensive end in the first round, but there are more defensive end busts in the first round than there are corners."

Since 1995 these are the 1st round bust at corner:

Craig Newsome
Tyrone Poole
Alex Molden
Tom Knight
Bryant Westbrook
Terry Fair
Fernando Bryant
Rashard Anderson
Jamar Fletcher
Willie Middlebrooks
Phillip Buchanon
Mike Rumph
Sammy Davis Jr.
Andre Woolfolk
Ahmad Carroll
Marlin Jackson
Fabian Washington
Pac Man Jones
Kelly Jennings
Tye Hill
Leodis McKelvin

Twenty-one cornerback busts since 1995. Compared to:

Jason Peter
Andre Wadsworth
Lamar King
Erik Flowers
Courtney Brown
Jamal Reynolds
Jerome McDougle
Michael Haynes
Kenechi Udeze
Erasmus James
Jarvis Moss
Adam Carriker
Jamaal Anderson
Gaines Adams
Vernon Gholston
Derrick Harvey
Lawrence Jackson
Aaron Maybin
Mike Mamula
Cedric Jones
Marcus Jones
Jon Harris

Twenty-two defensive end busts since 1995. Let's see...let me pull out the calculator. That's a difference of one. There has been one more busted defensive end than corner in the first round since 1995.

So in conclusion (I know I didn't do the defensive tackles, but I already took up way too much time and space and the results are similar to the defensive end), you should not take a shutdown cornerback EVERY TIME. In fact, you should probably take the elite pass rusher because there is an equal chance of finding a pretty good corner in the later rounds. And pairing that good corner with the elite pass rusher is a very good combo. We also know that is much harder to find an elite pass rusher in later rounds. So taking the corner first and the pass rusher second doesn't seem like a good idea because there are less pass rushers available after the first round. Furthermore, we know that cornerback is safer pick for this reason since 1995 there has been twenty-one busts at corner and twenty-two busts at defensive end.

Take the pass rusher.
Posted By: Lou Groza Re: 1st Round Mock - 03/24/11 07:27 PM
Quote:

Quote:

Give me shutdown corner over the best DL in any draft EVERY TIME.




Reading this I thought, "WHAT!?!?!"

Why would anyone think you would want the shutdown corner over the best D-Linemen in the draft....EVERY TIME?

So I've done a little research. Since 1995 the following corners have been taken after the 1st round (I know not all are "shutdown corners" but that is a hard term to define. So I just picked out the guys I thought were very good. Please click on the links to see the players' career stats and draft round):

Bobby Taylor
Donnie Abraham
Ronde Barber
Sam Madison
Al Harris
Samari Rolle
Patrick Surtain
Mike McKenzie
Dre' Bly
Ken Lucas
Asante Samuel
Rashean Mathis

So that's twelve guys since 1995 that have been very good corners for most of their career.

In that same time span here are the same criteria (very good corner) drafted in the 1st round:

Ty Law
Charles Woodson
Champ Bailey
Chris McAlister
Antoine Winfield
Nate Clements
Terrence Newman
Marcus Trufant
Nnamdi Asomugha
Chris Gamble
Darrelle Revis
Leon Hall
Joe Haden

That's thirteen guys since 1995 that have been drafted in the first round and been very good most of their careers. (Twelve if I wasn't a homer and didn't throw Joe Haden in there). I will admit, the second list has better overall talent (Woodson, Bailey, Asomugha, Revis).

Now, let's look at how many very good defensive ends (I'm going to separate defensive ends and tackles because they are very different positions, I didn't include safeties in the corner discussion) have been taken after round one since 1995 (this list doesn't include players that would have been defensive ends but got drafted by a 3-4 team, i.e. DeMarcus Ware, LaMarr Woodley):

Jason Taylor
Leonard Little
Aaron Smith
Kabeer Gbaja-Biamila
Aaron Schobel
Osi Umenyiora
Robert Mathis
Jared Allen
Trent Cole

Nine defensive end drafted after the second round turned out to be very good players. There's even one Hall of Famer in there (Jason Taylor).

Now the defensive ends that were drafted in the first round since 1995 that were very good:

Kevin Carter
Hugh Douglas
Simeon Rice
Jevon Kearse
Patrick Kerney
Shaun Ellis
John Abraham
Richard Seymour
Julius Peppers
Dwight Freeney
Mario Williams
Tamba Hali

So twelve. And out of those twelve Rice, Kearse, Abraham, Seymour, Peppers, Freeney, and Williams are all about on the same level as Revis, Bailey, Woodson, and Asomugha. And it is well known in the NFL that if you can get a elite pass rush you don't need elite corners to shutdown the other teams' receivers (i.e. the Steelers the past few years).

This got me to thinking, "Well yeah, you're better off taking a defensive end in the first round, but there are more defensive end busts in the first round than there are corners."

Since 1995 these are the 1st round bust at corner:

Craig Newsome
Tyrone Poole
Alex Molden
Tom Knight
Bryant Westbrook
Terry Fair
Fernando Bryant
Rashard Anderson
Jamar Fletcher
Willie Middlebrooks
Phillip Buchanon
Mike Rumph
Sammy Davis Jr.
Andre Woolfolk
Ahmad Carroll
Marlin Jackson
Fabian Washington
Pac Man Jones
Kelly Jennings
Tye Hill
Leodis McKelvin

Twenty-one cornerback busts since 1995. Compared to:

Jason Peter
Andre Wadsworth
Lamar King
Erik Flowers
Courtney Brown
Jamal Reynolds
Jerome McDougle
Michael Haynes
Kenechi Udeze
Erasmus James
Jarvis Moss
Adam Carriker
Jamaal Anderson
Gaines Adams
Vernon Gholston
Derrick Harvey
Lawrence Jackson
Aaron Maybin
Mike Mamula
Cedric Jones
Marcus Jones
Jon Harris

Twenty-two defensive end busts since 1995. Let's see...let me pull out the calculator. That's a difference of one. There has been one more busted defensive end than corner in the first round since 1995.

So in conclusion (I know I didn't do the defensive tackles, but I already took up way too much time and space and the results are similar to the defensive end), you should not take a shutdown cornerback EVERY TIME. In fact, you should probably take the elite pass rusher because there is an equal chance of finding a pretty good corner in the later rounds. And pairing that good corner with the elite pass rusher is a very good combo. We also know that is much harder to find an elite pass rusher in later rounds. So taking the corner first and the pass rusher second doesn't seem like a good idea because there are less pass rushers available after the first round. Furthermore, we know that cornerback is safer pick for this reason since 1995 there has been twenty-one busts at corner and twenty-two busts at defensive end.

Take the pass rusher.




Thanks for letting us know the draft can be risky.
Posted By: clevesteve Re: 1st Round Mock - 03/24/11 07:42 PM
Thanks for the all-quote.
Posted By: cfrs15 Re: 1st Round Mock - 03/24/11 07:48 PM
Quote:

Thanks for letting us know the draft can be risky.




Among other things.
Posted By: PStu24 Re: 1st Round Mock - 03/24/11 07:53 PM
It also comes back to scheme, if you want to take a look at all the factors. What percentage of the field has 2 corners compared to 3 corners. What percentage of the field do you turn your D-Ends loose versus having them play gap control or drop as anchors into coverage? What percent do you have your corners play man on versus playing zones?

The style of defense you want to play determines the importance of the players selected.

Also, it's difficult to tell specifically from the list above, but I don't know how many of those D-Ends can be considered 'busts' if they were moved from D-End to OLB in a 3-4 scheme.
Posted By: anarchy2day Re: 1st Round Mock - 03/25/11 12:58 AM
Yes. Every time.

Let's look at just last years draft.

The DL that were taken in the first round that were available when Joe Haden was available.

DE - Tyson Alualu (drafted 10th to JAX)
DE - Brandon Graham (drafted 13th to PHI)
DE - Jason Pierre-Paul (drafted 15th to NYG)
DE - Derrick Morgan (drafted 16th to TEN)
DT - Dan Williams (drafted 26th to ARI)
DT - Jared Odrick (drafted 28th to MIA)
DE - Jerry Hughes (drafted 31st to IND)

Since we're talking about someone like Peterson compared to the DL that might be available, I think it's a fair comparison. Now, tell me which of those DL you would have selected instead of Joe Haden?

I'm sorry, I'll close the door on your argument already.
Posted By: no_logo_required Re: 1st Round Mock - 03/25/11 01:50 PM
using one example in a draft that had 2 elite DL and not much else is your way of "closing the door"?

i'm sorry, i'll take a composite history that was done above over your 1 example from a DL-weak draft.

as for DL or Peterson. I'm think Dareus, Bowers, and Peterson are the elite players in this draft. if we have to choose between 2 of them, then I really don't care which we pick.
Posted By: CanadaDawg Re: 1st Round Mock - 03/25/11 02:17 PM
Quote:

Yes. Every time.

Let's look at just last years draft.

The DL that were taken in the first round that were available when Joe Haden was available.

DE - Tyson Alualu (drafted 10th to JAX)
DE - Brandon Graham (drafted 13th to PHI)
DE - Jason Pierre-Paul (drafted 15th to NYG)
DE - Derrick Morgan (drafted 16th to TEN)
DT - Dan Williams (drafted 26th to ARI)
DT - Jared Odrick (drafted 28th to MIA)
DE - Jerry Hughes (drafted 31st to IND)

Since we're talking about someone like Peterson compared to the DL that might be available, I think it's a fair comparison. Now, tell me which of those DL you would have selected instead of Joe Haden?

I'm sorry, I'll close the door on your argument already.




The best of those guys would be a late first/early second in this draft.

This year's draft is bunk except for D-Line prospects...and there's a ridiculous number of them, I would have no problem in moving down considerably in the first round and picking up an extra first next year.
Posted By: cfrs15 Re: 1st Round Mock - 03/25/11 03:42 PM
No. Not every time.

Let's take a look at just last year's draft.

The DL that were taken in the first round when Tye Hill was taken.

DE - Tamba Hali (drafted 20th to KC)
DE - Manny Lawson (drafted 22nd to SF)
DE - Mathias Kiwanuka (drafted 32nd to NYG)

Since we're talking about someone like Peterson compared to the DL that might be available, I think it's a fair comparison. Now, tell me which of those DL you would have selected instead of Tye Hill? (The answer is all of them).

I'm sorry, I'll close the door on your argument already. (Anyone can cherry pick a draft to help their argument.)
Posted By: anarchy2day Re: 1st Round Mock - 03/26/11 03:30 AM
Yes. A shutdown corner is much rarer than a productive DL.

I'll continue to close the door on the case for a DL at #6.

I respect your view, but I think your wrong. We'll just have to agree to disagree about it.
Posted By: anarchy2day Re: 1st Round Mock - 03/26/11 03:36 AM
Are you telling me that Tye Hill was a shutdown corner? Really? Is that what you're saying?

Posted By: cfrs15 Re: 1st Round Mock - 03/26/11 03:49 AM
No I'm saying that not every draft is like last year. And there were good to useful defensive linemen taken after him.
Posted By: cfrs15 Re: 1st Round Mock - 03/26/11 04:13 AM
Quote:

Yes. A shutdown corner is much rarer than a productive DL.




Right. But "DL" includes two different positions. Defensive end and defensive tackle are two very different positions. So grouping them together is like grouping together cornerback and safety.

When you look at it, an equivalent to a shutdown corner at the defensive end position (Revis/Peppers, Bailey/Freeney etc.) is equally as "rarer". And how do you know what a player will be in the NFL? There is no such thing as a for sure thing in the draft. No one knows if anyone will be a shutdown corner.

Also, the same could be said about defensive tackles (Suh/Asomugha).

When you are talking about elite talent it is very hard to find no matter what.

Here's the difference. If you have an elite pass rush it takes pressure off the guys who are covering (the corners and safeties).

Quote:

I'll continue to close the door on the case for a DL at #6.




That makes no sense at all. I think you mean, "I'll continue to close the door on the case for a DL at #6...if Peterson is gone."

I just want to make things clear; I think Peterson is a great prospect. I think he is one of the very top prospects in the upcoming draft. I just think that your argument of taking the corner every time is a very bad one. Especially when any player you take in the draft is an unknown commodity.

Taking a corner when you have other positions that need help more and have equal available talent is not a smart thing to do. With that said, Peterson might be better than every player in this draft besides one or two. So there might not be equal talent at other positions of need. If so, take the best guy.
Posted By: anarchy2day Re: 1st Round Mock - 03/28/11 04:42 PM
And there will be good an productive DL taken after Peterson and Prince. I'd still take either of them before I'd select DL.
Posted By: anarchy2day Re: 1st Round Mock - 03/28/11 04:56 PM
Quote:

Right. But "DL" includes two different positions. Defensive end and defensive tackle are two very different positions. So grouping them together is like grouping together cornerback and safety.




Choose which one you want to compare them to. Choose any position on the entire defense that is more crucial to a defense's success than a shutdown corner? Any LB? Any DL? A safety?

Quote:

That makes no sense at all. I think you mean, "I'll continue to close the door on the case for a DL at #6...if Peterson is gone."




I'd be ecstatic if Peterson is gone and the Browns decide to take Prince Amukamara over any DL.

It's probably true that my viewpoint won't win out in the Browns FO though. I suspect that they think that drafting some DL for the 4-3 will be necessary in the 1st round but I might be pleasantly surprised on April 28th.

If I'm drafting at #6 and a highly-prized shutdown corner is there (and unless I have at least two of them on my team), I don't even consider a DL over that shutdown corner. I would seriously consider taking a third shutdown corner before I take a DL unless I have Reggie White's clone sitting there and I have those two shutdown corners already on my roster.

We'll just have to agree to disagree.
Posted By: cfrs15 Re: 1st Round Mock - 03/28/11 05:11 PM
Quote:

I'd be ecstatic if Peterson is gone and the Browns decide to take Prince Amukamara over any DL.




In this upcoming draft it is probably true that taking the corner is the right thing to do. Both Peterson and Amukamara are higly rated players with probably only one defensive linemen rated above them (Dareus).

But I'm talking overall value. You say you would take a shut down corner. But there is no way in knowing that player is a shutdown corner. Just like there is no way in knowing a defensive end will be an elite pass rusher. Which means you should take the higher rated player.

If Amukamara and Dareus are both on the board, who do you take?
Posted By: RageDawg Re: 1st Round Mock - 03/28/11 05:59 PM
Quote:

If you take away an opponent's ability to pass the ball, you make the job of the DL and LBs easy.





You might see a game where someone runs 50 times against us if we dont get some D line help. Another elite corner would be nice, but a luxury we cant afford imo. We need to see if Wright can come back into form this year.
Posted By: BuckDawg1946 Re: 1st Round Mock - 03/28/11 07:28 PM
Do these "mock drafts" get archived somewhere? People always "pimp" this player, or trash this player, but what's the point?

You really can't find out if a player pans out for a few years. Unless these mock drafts get archived, it's almost useless debating. Because you won't know for years, and by then, do people even remember who they picked?

Ehhhhh
Posted By: BuckDawg1946 Re: 1st Round Mock - 03/28/11 07:30 PM
I guess futile is the word I'm looking for.
Posted By: Jester Re: 1st Round Mock - 03/29/11 01:20 AM
A shutdown corner is great to have but there are so many shutdown corners drafted that can't shutdown anybody in the NFL.

A great defensive lineman is also wonderful to have but too many of these guys turn out to be "Big Money".

If you can get a superstar player you take him. You don't pick a corner over a lineman or vice versa just because of position. You cannot really compare the positions you need to compare the individual players.

If you take a player who turns out to be a true stud (not a wannabe) then he will have a tremendous impact on your team regardless of whether he is a shutdown corner (Revis), a dlineman (Freeney) a safety (Palamalou, Reed), a linebacker (Matthews) etc etc. But if you pick a wannbe regardless of position, you wasted the pick.

I close the door o the argument
Posted By: anarchy2day Re: 1st Round Mock - 03/29/11 04:52 AM
Quote:

If Amukamara and Dareus are both on the board, who do you take?




I think I've made it abundantly clear who I would select in that instance. Amukamara without hesitation.
Posted By: anarchy2day Re: 1st Round Mock - 03/29/11 04:58 AM
If the opponent is running the ball 50 times, I'm tremendously happy if I have Haden and either Peterson or Amukamara as my corners with T.J. Ward back there too. That means my corners are doing the job that they've been given and the opponent has reverted to the run because they have no chance of passing the ball.

I've got my DL and LBs keying on the opponents backfield. If any player back there has the ball, I'm closing on them like a sledgehammer. I might even cheat a bit with Ward coming up to assist on the run stopping.
Posted By: PStu24 Re: 1st Round Mock - 03/29/11 05:16 AM
Maybe St. Clair could try D-Tackle? If he gets half as much qb pressure on defense as he allowed on offense ... we wouldn't need any dline in this draft ...
Posted By: cfrs15 Re: 1st Round Mock - 03/29/11 06:29 AM
Quote:

Quote:

If Amukamara and Dareus are both on the board, who do you take?




I think I've made it abundantly clear who I would select in that instance. Amukamara without hesitation.




Taking Amukamara, who is a very good prospect, over Dareus, who is either the top player or second best player (according to most people), is quite ridiculous. And that's in any situation, not considering a team's needs. Then you take into account the needs of this current Browns team and it makes it even more ridiculous.

Yes, you have made yourself abundantly clear. But I think most would agree that you are dead wrong on this one.
Posted By: anarchy2day Re: 1st Round Mock - 03/29/11 10:59 AM
Quote:

Maybe St. Clair could try D-Tackle? If he gets half as much qb pressure on defense as he allowed on offense ... we wouldn't need any dline in this draft ...




Now that is a rib-splitter!

But, in seriousness, we do need some DL. We won't need to get any in the first round.
Posted By: anarchy2day Re: 1st Round Mock - 03/29/11 11:07 AM
Quote:

Taking Amukamara, who is a very good prospect, over Dareus, who is either the top player or second best player (according to most people), is quite ridiculous.




If he is the best or 2nd best player in the draft with the needs of those above us, he won't be there. Frankly, I don't think he will, but even if he was, I'd take the CB over him.

Quote:

And that's in any situation, not considering a team's needs. Then you take into account the needs of this current Browns team and it makes it even more ridiculous.




And you think that the team needs a DL more than a corner who can shutdown the opposing receivers. Okay, I get it. I hope that he can cover WRs too, because he's going to need that ability.

Quote:

Yes, you have made yourself abundantly clear. But I think most would agree that you are dead wrong on this one.




Of the people that I've asked the opinion of on this matter (two fans of the game brothers of mine), they both agree with me. I know what the majority of fans on this website think. I happen to disagree with them.
Posted By: Bard Dawg Re: 1st Round Mock - 03/29/11 01:54 PM
Thought he was quite a run stopper on OFFENSE. Sure did a lot for the opponent's pass rush. Not sure he could cover that much ground regularly; also not my choice for goalline stand defense. Two-legged sieve.
Posted By: anarchy2day Re: 1st Round Mock - 03/30/11 10:57 AM
He was a Pro Bowl DL.
Posted By: cfrs15 Re: 1st Round Mock - 04/01/11 05:54 PM
Here's a story (stories) about how the Panthers are going to take Cam Newton #1. That would be great for us.

1. Panthers - Newton
2. Broncos - Dareus
3. Bills - Peterson
4. Bengals - Gabbert
5. Cardinals - Miller
6. Browns - Green/Quinn/Amukamara/Jones/Fairley
Posted By: anarchy2day Re: 1st Round Mock - 04/02/11 04:28 AM
After taking Clausen in the 2nd round last year?

If Carolina is going to tell their fans that they've given up on their 2nd round pick from a year ago and will be selecting a QB with first overall pick this year, they can expect a backlash.

If Carolina does that, they're setting their franchise back another 5 years. If Clausen is the reason that Carolina went 2-14 and ended up with the first overall selection this year then the whole Panthers fan base needs to be put on a lithium diet. They're going to be depressed for a long, long time.
Posted By: PStu24 Re: 1st Round Mock - 04/02/11 07:43 PM
Quote:


If Carolina is going to tell their fans that they've given up on their 2nd round pick from a year ago and will be selecting a QB with first overall pick this year, they can expect a backlash.





The same way that we did with Veikune? lol I understand your point.. but new regimes mean they bring in their own guys. You really think Ron Rivera wants to bank his entire career as a head coach on Jimmy Clausen? Or (to put it another way) on a young quarterback who didn't help save the last guys job?
Posted By: anarchy2day Re: 1st Round Mock - 04/03/11 03:46 AM
Well, let's look at it this way. You're the owner of the Panthers. You've shelled out some bucks for last years draft (including Clausen) and you've hired a new coach. He tells you that he wants his players and that last years picks just won't do and that you'll be taking a QB with the overall #1 selection and to open up your pocketbook some more. I don't think that will sit very well at all.
Posted By: PStu24 Re: 1st Round Mock - 04/03/11 03:58 AM
I don't know if he would love the idea ... but the new coach doesn't owe the old coaches selections anything. If the GM is still high on Clausen (I think that the same one is there) then maybe they give him a year ...but the owner has more or less no say in it. They will be spending "1st pick" money on anyone they draft anyway ... and it's not like owners can afford to have back to back 2-14 seasons ... because even if they save money on not drafting a top quarterback, they will lose when no one comes to the games ...

It happens all the time ... a brand new coach isn't coming in unless he either A. likes his quarterbacl or B. has the option to get his own ... in the last few years alone Quinn and Anderson were both jettisoned when the new guys came in ... heck McDaniels cut the rope on Cutler ...
Posted By: anarchy2day Re: 1st Round Mock - 04/03/11 07:39 PM
Quote:

I don't know if he would love the idea ... but the new coach doesn't owe the old coaches selections anything.



You're right. But he does owe the owner something, if nothing more than giving the players drafted last year a shot. If they draft Newton, they're going to be like the Browns have been for the past 12 years.

Quote:

If the GM is still high on Clausen (I think that the same one is there) then maybe they give him a year ...but the owner has more or less no say in it.




I disagree. The owner has the final say in it. They're the people with their names on every one of the checks.

Quote:

They will be spending "1st pick" money on anyone they draft anyway ...




That's true enough. All I'm saying is that it isn't likely to be a QB. Who knows, they might find a trade partner to trade up to the #1 overall spot.

Quote:

...and it's not like owners can afford to have back to back 2-14 seasons ...




No they can't, which is why taking a QB with the number #1 overall pick that isn't worth that selection and won't make you back those bucks that you've invested in them is a bad idea.

Quote:

...because even if they save money on not drafting a top quarterback, they will lose when no one comes to the games ...




Are you contending that Cam Newton will fill the seats in Charlotte? Will Blaine Gabbert do it? I didn't think so either. The only thing that will do that will be a winning team and you don't win by throwing money down an bottomless pit.

Quote:

It happens all the time ... a brand new coach isn't coming in unless he either A. likes his quarterbacl or B. has the option to get his own ... in the last few years alone Quinn and Anderson were both jettisoned when the new guys came in ... heck McDaniels cut the rope on Cutler ...



Anderson was cut (but he was signed as a FA, not a #1 overall pick) and Quinn was traded for Hillis (who got your money back for the Quinn fiasco).

Cutler was jettisoned and went to the NFC Championship. Denver is likely drafting #2 because of that decision. Not so much because of the player but because of the inconsistency at the position.
Posted By: PStu24 Re: 1st Round Mock - 04/03/11 11:01 PM
Don't get me wrong, I see your point. And I'm not sure that they WILL take a quarterback or if they do believe in Clausen.

I just remember when they were talking about the Denver situation ... one of the problems would be when the new coach comes in, he is going to "inherit" Tebow as a first round pick and that could create controversy.

I just see it the same way here ... if Ron Rivera walks into the meeting and they say "You are the head coach, and if you can't produce in the Not For Long league, you are gone.... so While we will do anything to make your team better, you HAVE to go forward with Clausen as your quarterback..."

I would just assume that most coaches would want to at least have their say in their franchise quarterback than have a "shotgun wedding" of a quarterback situation.

I'm not arguing that it wouldn't set them back .. and I think that Rivera lived and died by the blitz and the front 7 pressure in San Diego. All the more reason for him to want to take one of the monsters.

That being said ... if they aren't set on Jimmy Clausen, I'm not sure that they can "wait" to fix the position. If they think that Cam or Gabbert is better than Clausen, then they can instantly win more games (or at least sell that to the fans don't forget).

Any pick that can help is great, but a Quarterback has more impact than any other position. If you can't get that position right, you're in trouble.
Posted By: anarchy2day Re: 1st Round Mock - 04/04/11 04:35 PM
I understand where you're coming from but if a coach has to bring in a QB that will fit the system he wants (and Rivera coming from the defensive side of the ball shouldn't care) who the QB is. Rather, he should worry about getting the right pieces there and should inform his OC that he needs to plan on going forward with Clausen at the helm for the moment.

If a team, any team, begins to draft to replace their field general every year, they're on a losing track.

Let's take a look at Carolina, for example.

Last year, they selected Clausen in the 2nd round as the QB they will be using to go forward. The coach got fired because the team went 2-14.

If they select a QB in the 1st round but the selection turns to be a bust (or even if it doesn't) and the team does not meet expectations and the coach is replaced in 2 or 3 years, your suggestion is that the new head coach should be allowed to bring in new players that fit that scheme. That's fine.

As Cleveland fans, we know about the coaching carousel and the QB carousel all too well and we know that doesn't lead to success at all. That is, I think, the reason that Holmgren brought in Delhomme (as a stop gap) and Wallace but drafted McCoy. As soon as Holmgren was brought in, I think Mangini's fate was sealed. McCoy was drafted to be the field general under a coach who knows Holmgren and will execute that system. Hence, Pat Shurmur was brought in.

The Browns will improve next season precisely because the pieces on offense fit the system that Holmgren and Co. want to institute. There might be a few growing pains on the defensive side of the ball, but even that isn't a given. There was a lot of players shed that wouldn't fit the 4-3. We'll have missing pieces there (if we don't acquire them in the draft or free agency), but they'll fit the scheme that they want.
Posted By: no_logo_required Re: 1st Round Mock - 04/04/11 04:39 PM
one of the reasons an owner replaces a coach is the he fully expects a new coach to come in with a clean slate on the players. come in, re-evaluate every position and figure out which players are worth keeping and which to replace.

this is regardless of draft position, etc. but obviously the coach needs to hold some regard for how well they fit with their schemes.

if Carolina believes that Claussen was a 'bust' draft pick or if they just feel like Newton and/or Gabbert are going to be franchise QBs and Claussen is not at that level, then they should go that route.

personally, I think it would be folly this year to draft a QB. But, that has got to be the thought process, otherwise why replace a respected coach?
Posted By: PStu24 Re: 1st Round Mock - 04/04/11 05:22 PM
Quote:


If a team, any team, begins to draft to replace their field general every year, they're on a losing track.





I absolutely agree with what you are saying. The only reason I could see them doing this is that players really aren't evaluated on their draft position once they have been brought in and a new coach is there. They don't care that Tebow is a 1st round pick, that Orton was a trade for Cutler, or that Quinn was a 6th round and Hillis trade essentially ... They will play the best Quarterback. If they think they can get a guy who is better than those three and will be the real deal, they need to draft him.

I'm not really arguing so much to retool and blow it up every 3 years (god knows us Browns fans are experts in that) ... but like I keep saying ... Rivera doesn't owe anything to Matt Moore, Jimmy , Tony Pike, Or Brian St. Pierre ...

I mean, I completely get that it's terrible to cut a guy after JUST bringing him in ... but you also see the guys in the league who a team spends (arguably) too much time experimenting with ... Jamarcus, Matt Leinart, Alex Smith, Joey Harrington ... and those were top guys too... I won't even throw in the Quinn, Young, Losman, Carr, Leftwich, Grossman names (well .. I just did I guess ) ... but I think you at least see my point that just because a guy was a big name and a high pick doesn't mean you should throw good money after bad ... or that a new coach owes him anything. You might as well bring in a guy (if you think he's better) and let HIM grow while you put the pieces together.

I guess it's just different strategies of drafting? Not saying you are wrong but I just don't think that the new guy "owes" anything to the old players. If they were so good, why was the last coach fired ... so to speak?
Posted By: Halfback32 Re: 1st Round Mock - 04/04/11 07:11 PM
Can a new coach.. coming in.. evaluate a QB whom he has never worked with.. to the extent that he would spend the top pick of the draft? For YEARS.. I have listened to people on this board say.. NO.. you have to give at least 3 Years to evaluate ( insert name here ) [ Frye.. Anderson.. Quinn.. Wynn.. Couch.. Garcia..]

When you have a bad team.. You can not blame everything on the QB. The QB does not rush the passer.. the QB does not block for the running backs.. the QB does not defend the other teams receivers. Sometimes, a team is just so bad that not even Joe Montana can save them...

Granted.. I have heard that Clausen is a problem to work with.. that he has off the field issues.. and is a problem in the locker room. I ask.. shouldn't a new coach see if he can work with a player before he throws out two back to back high draft picks ( the # 2 spent on Claussen last year and this years # 1 overall ) to cover one position.

Picking high round QBs, year after year, as well as changing coaching staffs, is throwing good money after bad. Are the Carolina Panthers going to become this decade's 1990s Cincinnati Bengals ?
Posted By: no_logo_required Re: 1st Round Mock - 04/04/11 07:23 PM
Quote:

Are the Carolina Panthers going to become this decade's 1990s Cincinnati Bengals ?




if they don't find a good QB, then quite possibly.
Posted By: cfrs15 Re: 1st Round Mock - 04/04/11 07:51 PM
Carolina's GM Marty Hurney is the guy that drafted Clausen.
Posted By: no_logo_required Re: 1st Round Mock - 04/04/11 08:09 PM
Quote:

Carolina's GM Marty Hurney is the guy that drafted Clausen.




true. however, I still suspect that if the new coach comes in and tells him that Claussen doesn't have the tools for his offense and is going to be a career-backup that the GM would listen.

anyways, I don't think there's a QB worth picking at #1 this year, but I still hope that they do.
Posted By: anarchy2day Re: 1st Round Mock - 04/04/11 11:23 PM
Oh, Rivera doesn't owe any player anything. I just think that you can't go spending a 2nd round pick on a QB and then abandon that selection to go out and select a QB with the first overall selection the very next year.

Hey, I guess if you want to do that or feel, like you said, that he doesn't fit the scheme that going to be used, then you might. I suspect that you'd probably draft one in the 4th round (or even later) to back up that 2nd round selection from the previous year.

Let's take for example a QB with these stats in the first couple years in the league.

Year 1: 52.9% comp, 9 TD, 18 INT in 11 games.
Year 2: 56.6% comp, 11 TD, 18 INT in 15 games.

That QB wouldn't make it passed the first year in the league in today's game. If he followed up his rookie season with a season like year two, he'd never see a field again. However, he went on to win 3 Super Bowls and has been inducted into the Football HOF.

Yeah, Troy Aikman wouldn't last in today's NFL.
Posted By: PStu24 Re: 1st Round Mock - 04/04/11 11:50 PM
Fair enough.

But also Carolina doesn't have a 2nd rounder. They need to draft well and while to you or I that might mean trading down a few spots to get more picks or taking the most impactful player in the draft ... they might see it as "who can we take that not only helps us win in 5 years or in 3 years... but this season too." If either QB could develop into a franchise QB and they like him over Clausen, then they take him.

Once again, I'm not arguing that they SHOULD or that they WILL ... I almost think it's between CAM and Dareus myself ... but the point is I could honestly see them going EITHER way.
Posted By: no_logo_required Re: 1st Round Mock - 04/05/11 02:19 PM
Troy Aikman wouldn't have lasted in the 90's either if Minnesota didn't gift the Cowboys a team

(well, and Jerry let Jimmy make the picks sure helped out too)
Posted By: anarchy2day Re: 1st Round Mock - 04/05/11 04:13 PM
Quote:

Fair enough.

But also Carolina doesn't have a 2nd rounder. They need to draft well and while to you or I that might mean trading down a few spots to get more picks or taking the most impactful player in the draft ... they might see it as "who can we take that not only helps us win in 5 years or in 3 years... but this season too." If either QB could develop into a franchise QB and they like him over Clausen, then they take him.

Once again, I'm not arguing that they SHOULD or that they WILL ... I almost think it's between CAM and Dareus myself ... but the point is I could honestly see them going EITHER way.




Frankly, I think that IF Carolina could trade out of that top spot and pick up another selection (or two) that they would take it - perhaps even if it was lower on the 'trade value chart' than one might expect them to accept.

For example, if they could get a 2nd quarter (picks 9-16) first rounder and second rounder (41-48) selections from a team, they might take it. They might even accept an even lower selection if another round selection (3rd) is added to the mix.
Posted By: anarchy2day Re: 1st Round Mock - 04/05/11 04:15 PM
You have a point... but I'm not sure that Jerry let Jimmy make the selections alone. I'll bet that they mutually agreed on the selections that were made. Jerry Jones doesn't let anyone take sole charge of anything.
Posted By: no_logo_required Re: 1st Round Mock - 04/05/11 04:20 PM
Quote:

You have a point... but I'm not sure that Jerry let Jimmy make the selections alone. I'll bet that they mutually agreed on the selections that were made. Jerry Jones doesn't let anyone take sole charge of anything.




probably a mix, but there are so many stories about Jimmy's boys doing real background checks through their coaching connections in college, etc. that it really seems like that was the 'most' that Jerry ever let go of control

of course, we all know how it ended with Jerry seizing that control back
Posted By: candyman92 Re: 1st Round Mock - 04/13/11 05:36 AM
I went RT and WR early for cleveland based on BPA and need. They can draft defense and sign some defensive guys in FA

ROUND 1

1. Carolina Panthers- Cam Newton, QB, Auburn
2. Denver Broncos- Marcell Dareus, DT, Alabama
3. Buffalo Bills- Von Miller, OLB, Texas A&M
4. Cincinnati Bengals- Blaine Gabbert, QB, Missouri
5. Arizona Cardinals- Robert Quinn, DE/OLB, North Carolina
6. Cleveland Browns- AJ Green, WR, Georgia
7. San Francisco 49ers- Patrick Peterson, CB, LSU
8. Tennessee Titans- Nick Fairly, DT, Auburn
9. Dallas Cowboys- Prince Amukamara, CB, Nebraska
10. Washington Redskins- Aldon Smith, DE/OLB, Missouri
11. Houston Texans- JJ Watt DE, Wisconsin
12. Minnesota Vikings- Ryan Mallet, QB, Arkansas
13. Detroit Lions- Da’Quan Bowers, DE, Clemson
14.St. Louis Rams- Julio Jones, WR, Alabama
15. Miami Dolphins- Mike Pouncey, OL, Florida
16. Jacksonville Jaguars- Ryan Kerrigan, DE, Purdue
17. New England Patriots- Cameron Jordan, DE, California
18. San Diego Chargers- Tyron Smith, OT, USC
19. New York Giants- Anthony Castanzo, OT, Boston College
20. Tampa Bay Buccaneers- Justin Houston, DE/OLB, Georgia
21. Kansas City Chiefs- Stephen Paea, DT, Oregon
22. Indianapolis Colts- Gabe Carimi, OT, Wisconsin
23. Philadelphia Eagles- Muhammad Wilkerson DT, Temple
24. New Orleans Saints- Adrian Clayborn, DE, Iowa
25. Seattle Seahawks- Jake Locker, QB, Washington
26. Baltimore Ravens- Torrey Smith, WR, Maryland
27. Atlanta Falcons- Brooks Reed, DE/LB, Arizona
28. New England Patriots- Nate Solder, OT, Colorado
29. Chicago Bears- Corey Luiget, DT, Illinois
30. New York Jets- Phil Taylor, DT, Baylor
31. Pittsburgh Steelers- Jimmy Smith, CB, Colorado
32. Green Bay Packers- Cameron Heyward, DE, Ohio State

ROUND 2

33. New England Patriots- Mark Ingram, RB, Alabama
34. Buffalo Bills- Christian Ponder, QB, Florida State
35. Cincinnati Bengals- Leonard Hankerson, WR, Miami
36. Denver Broncos- Brandon Harris, CB, Miami
37. Cleveland Browns- Derek Sherrod, OT, Mississippi State
38. Arizona Cardinals- Andy Dalton, QB, TCU
39. Tennessee Titans- Colin Kaepernick, QB, Nevada
40. Dallas Cowboys- Ben Ijalana, OT, Villanova
41. Washington Redskins- Randall Cobb, WR, Kentucky
42. Houston Texans- Kyle Rudolph, TE, Notre Dame
43. Minnesota Vikings- Stefen Wisniewski, C, Penn State
44. Detroit Lions- Aaron Williams, S/CB, Texas
45. San Francisco 49ers- Marvin Austin, DT, North Carolina
46. Denver Broncos- Akeem Ayers, OLB, UCLA
47. St. Louis Rams- Danny Watkins, G, Baylor
48. Oakland Raiders- Ras-I Dowling, CB, Virginia
49. Jacksonville Jaguars- Jon Baldwin, WR, Pittsburgh
50. San Diego Chargers- Allen Bailey, DE, Miami
51. Tampa Bay Buccaneers- Rahim Moore, S, UCLA
52. New York Giants- Bruce Carter, LB, North Carolina
53. Indianapolis Colts- Christian Ballard, DT, Iowa
54. Philadelphia Eagles- Martez Wilson, LB, Illinois
55. Kansas City Chiefs- Orlando Franklin, OL, Miami
56. New Orleans Saints- Mikel Leshoure, RB, Illinois
57. Seattle Seahawks- Clint Boling, OG, Georgia
58. Baltimore Ravens- Marcus Cannon, OL, TCU
59. Atlanta Falcons- Titus Young, WR, Boise State
60. New England Patriots- Rodney Hudson, OL, Florida State
61. San Diego Chargers- Jerrel Jernigan, WR, Troy
62. Chicago Bears- Mason Foster, OLB, Washington
63. Pittsburgh Steelers- James Carpenter, OL, Alabama
64. Green Bay Packers- Ryan Williams, RB, Virginia Tech
Posted By: YTownBrownsFan Re: 1st Round Mock - 04/13/11 10:39 AM
No offense, but if we pass on the plus, plus talent on the DL in this draft, Heckert should be fired.

I would bet money that we do not go WR or OT in the 1st 2 rounds. We already have 2 1st rounders invested in the OL, along with a 3rd last year. We also have a very expensive (and capable) LG in Steinbach. I can see us going OL in the 4th or later ..... but not before. Especially not when the DL needs rebuilt ... and with the DL being the most important unit on a 4-3 defense.

I honestly think that the braintrust thinks that some of the guys we currently have at WR will blossom in the WCO. I would be stunned to see a WR taken before the 4th ... if at all.
Posted By: Browns Lifer Re: 1st Round Mock - 04/13/11 11:03 AM
Fired?

It all depends on the grades Heckert and his staff have on these guys. If the draft were to play out this way (which I doubt it will, but you never know) with Peterson AND Green available at 6, I would not be surprised at all if one of them became a Brown. Both could be considered BPA at that point and both would upgrade their respective positions on our roster.

UNLESS... we get an offer we can't refuse to move down a few slots where a guy like Jordan is a better value than he would be at 6. With Peterson AND Green available at 6, I would imagine our phones would be ringing, but the offer would have to be REALLY good to move, IMO.
Posted By: RocDawg Re: 1st Round Mock - 04/13/11 11:34 AM
Candyman, I'd take Marvin Austin DT who is still on your board in Rd 2 over Sherrod OT.

Green WR
Austin DT

would be a bad 1,2..... load up round three and lets take a look.
Posted By: YTownBrownsFan Re: 1st Round Mock - 04/13/11 12:03 PM
I'm not trying to be an ass here .... but this is a once in a lifetime opportunity to set up our new 4-3 defense in a single draft.

The core of the 4-3 is a ferocious DL. Right now we have, really, 1 DL who we know will play and play well. If we don't find 3 more plus to excellent ..... not just good, but plus to excellent DL, then we don't play defense this year. This is a draft deep in DL .... with a lot of high quality DL who will be available throughout the top 3 rounds. This draft could set the defensive tone for our team for years to come.

There's a lot of talk about Peterson .... and I wouldn't complain much if he was the pick .... but only if we then go DL in the next 3 rounds. I'm really not kidding here. We have 3 of our 4 OL spots set, and I know that the powers that be expect Lauvoa to take the 4th spot. If he is a plus player, then that allows us to have Womack and Pashos handle the RT spot. I have read some stuff indicating that Holmgren likes Vallos as well. He might fit as a WCO RT. I would be stunned to see the Browns go OL early in this draft with gaping holes in other parts of the roster, and better talent available at deeper positions.

I do not see them going WR early. I have read srticles indicating that the braintrust thinks that we have a couple of WR who will excel in the WCO ...... and they are also high on Carlton Mitchell. I am also curious to see if a quick little guy like Norwood might be able to make an impact in the WCO. He ran great routes and had great hands in college. Those are premium qualities for a WCO WR.

I can see us addressing a 3rd down type speedy RB later in the draft. I can see us taking a developmental QB middle to late in the draft. Honestly, the rest I see spent on defense. We need DL desperately, and LB isn't far behind. If Elam leaves, then we need a FS as well. We need a lot of help on defense to make the change from 3-4 to 4-3. I do not see us making that change ..... hiring a guy like Dick Jauron, and leaving him with nothing to work with.

The offense has tons to work with. We have a QB, 2 RB, 2 TE, and solid OL, and potential at WR. (at least that's what the brain trust has said) On defense we have 1 DT, a pair of LB, a S and a lockdown caliber CB. (and some decent CBs) We need a TON of help on defense .... and luckily this draft is deep, deep, deep at the position we need most. I do like the idea of pairing Peterson with Haden ... and that might be an option ..... but I see us taking no less than 3 DL in this draft .... and higher rather than lower.

JMHO.
Posted By: Browns Lifer Re: 1st Round Mock - 04/13/11 01:09 PM
I don't disagree with you entirely. I'm just sayin' if we end up with either Peterson or Green in the first, I doubt Heckert's job will be in jeopardy.

The bottom line for me is that there are very few positions on this team that couldn't use an upgrade. Again, IF the draft plays out like this (and that is a BIG "IF"), I don't think we can go wrong picking Peterson and I wouldn't be too upset if Green ended up being our choice. Our wideouts are what they are: 2nd tier guys who need a real threat opposite them to open things up a bit. Holmgren said that he's looking for a home run threat (which implies that we don't have one currently -- an obvious fact if you've watched the Browns offense at all). Green would certainly fit that bill.

That said, I will be a bit surprised if either of these guys is available at 6 (Peterson moreso than Green). I still think we'll end up going DL at this pick as a result. I would be good with that as well.
Posted By: anarchy2day Re: 1st Round Mock - 04/13/11 11:17 PM
You have Patrick Peterson on the board and you take AJ Green?
Posted By: HotBYoungTurk Re: 1st Round Mock - 04/13/11 11:46 PM
Quote:

You have Patrick Peterson on the board and you take AJ Green?




i didnt.. lol.
Posted By: candyman92 Re: 1st Round Mock - 04/14/11 05:58 AM
Quote:


I would be stunned to see a WR taken before the 4th ... if at all.




I absolutely, 100% completly and utterly disagree with this statement.

To quote what you said if this happens

Quote:

Heckert should be fired




Momass is our only scrub that would make it on the Packers or steelers roster
Posted By: YTownBrownsFan Re: 1st Round Mock - 04/14/11 06:47 AM
I repeat ... I would be stunned to see a WR taken before the 4th .. if at all.

We'll see what happens ..... but yeah ... if we go WR/OL with our 1st 2 picks with the quality of talent at DL in this draft, combined with a desperate need at DL .. then yes, I would really, really question Heckert's ability to do this job.
Posted By: cfrs15 Re: 1st Round Mock - 04/14/11 07:10 AM
Heckert's job, at this point, is to collect talent. We obviously don't need a left tackle. And from everything the front office has said, we don't need a quarterback.

We have below average talent or players that don't fit our system at right tackle, wide receiver, linebacker, defensive tackle, and defensive end. And maybe right guard, safety, and cornerback.

Whatever player our front office determines to be the most talented player available when we draft is who we should take. This team is no place to take a player just because there is a need at that position. We need skilled players at many positions that can contribute both right away and many years in the future.
Posted By: YTownBrownsFan Re: 1st Round Mock - 04/14/11 07:15 AM
Actually, if you go by what the FO has said, we might not need a WR. Either that or we might want a veteran WR.
Posted By: cfrs15 Re: 1st Round Mock - 04/14/11 07:20 AM
I believe Holmgren also said , "I'm also looking for a home-run hitter."

That could mean anything from defensive end to a kick returner. I took it to mean a receiver.
Posted By: YTownBrownsFan Re: 1st Round Mock - 04/14/11 07:34 AM
We'll see what happens.

I have read that the brain trust likes Robiske and Mitchell. I have also read some good stuff about Norwood as far as short space quickness, hands, and routes.
Posted By: HotBYoungTurk Re: 1st Round Mock - 04/14/11 11:33 AM
Quote:

I believe Holmgren also said , "I'm also looking for a home-run hitter."

That could mean anything from defensive end to a kick returner. I took it to mean a receiver.




I know who he is talking about...

WR- Edmund Gates - Albein Christian U. The guy is a beast.
Posted By: no_logo_required Re: 1st Round Mock - 04/14/11 02:37 PM
Quote:


Momass is our only scrub that would make it on the Packers or steelers roster




I don't know. Robiskie played a heck of a lot better than MoMass down the stretch last year. Sure, he started lower, but at least he's been improving and seems to have chemistry with McCoy (where the best chemistry MoMass showed last year was with Jake)
Posted By: HotBYoungTurk Re: 1st Round Mock - 04/14/11 02:40 PM
must've been a carolina thing? lol..
Posted By: no_logo_required Re: 1st Round Mock - 04/14/11 02:44 PM
Quote:

must've been a carolina thing? lol..




didn't even realize MoMass was from Charlotte. thanks.

dang, we could have had "Carolina Connection" t-shirts made up after the TB TD
Posted By: Mourgrym Re: 1st Round Mock - 04/14/11 02:50 PM
Was thinking about who are the likely options for us in these first three rounds that fit.

1st

Peterson gives you the Peterson/Hayden combo of great press corners that are tackling machines.

Green gives you the playmaker, homerun hitter receiver and gives your young QB a go to player.

Quinn isn't talked about as much but he may be everything Heckert is looking for in a DE as well as a first round pick. speed, explosion and he has that home run factor and he is a Dick Jauron ideal DE.

2nd round

Jabaal Sheard DE Pitt Strong side de with good power and deceptive speed. Raw potential but Raw is the key word.

Jimmy Smith CB Colorado probably the 2nd best corner but major major off the field risk talent alone will get him a look

Muhammad Wilkerson DT Temple 4 down player. The biggest secret in this years draft. Every bit as talented as Dareus and Fairley. I think he slides as teams attack DE, QB and OT needs.

Leonard Hankerson WR Miami Struggled early in his career in all aspects of the game but improved every year and continues to improve. May have the highest ceiling of any of the receiver prospects.


3rd.

Marcus Cannon OG/OT TCU 6-5 and 360 lbs a tom heckert/ andy reid bubble butt offensive lineman. Best run blocker in this draft and more than adequate in pass protection.

Bruce Carter LB North Carolina probably wont play this year due to a knee injury but he was a top 15 projection before the injury

Dontay Moch LB Nevada (likely gone to the raiders in the 2nd but he could slide and if he does, Jauron will be pleading for his services.

Marcus Gilber OT Florida big mean nasty tackle another that fits Heckert

Greg Romeus DE Pitt Tons of talent but injuries have pushed him down the boards.
Posted By: no_logo_required Re: 1st Round Mock - 04/14/11 02:53 PM
Quote:

Muhammad Wilkerson DT Temple 4 down player. The biggest secret in this years draft.




we don't read the same sites then. He's talked about a ton and I've seen him as high as NE's 1st pick.

I'd love for him to drop to us in the 2nd round, but I think GB or Pitt jumps all over him as he'd be a perfect 3-4 DE for them.
Posted By: YTownBrownsFan Re: 1st Round Mock - 04/14/11 03:07 PM
1st round I would go wth Peterson or Jordan ...... depending on which one is there. I don't think you can go wrong with either one.

2nd round I would take the highest rated DE/DT left on board. We must get the DL rebuilt. With a 4-3 we have to have a dominating DL or else we don't have a defense.

3rd round would be my highest rated WR, DL, OL, LB, CB or S. Whatever player I have at those positions is my pick.

4th and beyond I go strictly off of what player is the highest rated left on board. We could really use quality players at any position.
Posted By: Mourgrym Re: 1st Round Mock - 04/14/11 04:28 PM
I've seen Wilkerson anywhere from 18 to 58. Cannon is another that is all over the place some have him going to the Packers in the first others have him going in the 4th.

The reason I say Wilkerson is one of the biggest secrets in the draft is because he is never mentioned. I think if you ask any of the talking heads who are your top 10 defensive linemen few if any would list this kid in that group and he could easily be the best DT in this draft.
Posted By: cfrs15 Re: 1st Round Mock - 04/14/11 04:41 PM
Mayock has Wilkerson as ranked 26th overall on his top 32 prospects and has him the as the 3rd best defensive tackle.

I can't link to it (ESPN Insider) but the biggest talking head of them all, Mel Kiper has him as the 3rd best defensive tackle.

Scouts Inc, the scouting service Todd McShay works out of, has Muhammad Wilkerson slotted to play defensive end in a 3-4 and he's ranked as the 5th overall defensive end.
Posted By: candyman92 Re: 1st Round Mock - 04/14/11 07:46 PM
I think that if Mitchell could be a #1 in the NFL, we would have seen something. He has the potential to be a faster James Jones. To me, that's it. Somebody who works in the slot as a #3 or #4 receiver. He is not polished enough in his route running or in his catching of the football to work anywhere else really. He is not explosive off the line, which is crucial. He is not very strong. Any #1 cornerback would eat him alive at the LOS. He has a long way to go and if we go into our season thinking that Mitchell will just grow into a #1 guy, then our FO is a bunch of retards.
Posted By: candyman92 Re: 1st Round Mock - 04/19/11 06:20 AM
1. Carolina - Cam Newton, QB
2. Denver - Marcel Dareus, DT
3. Buffalo - Von Miller, DE/LB
4. Cincinnati - A.J. Green, WR
5. Arizona - Patrick Peterson, CB
6. Cleveland - Robert Quinn, DE
7. San Francisco - Blaine Gabbert, QB
8. Tennessee - Nick Fairley, DT
9. Dallas - Tyron Smith, OT
10. Washington - Julio Jones, WR
11. Houston - Aldon Smith, DE/LB
12. Minnesota - Jake Locker, QB
13. Detroit - Prince Amukamara, CB
14. St. Louis - Corey Liuget, DT
15. Miami - Mike Pouncey, OL
16. Jacksonville - Ryan Kerrigan, DE
17. New England - Cameron Jordan, DE/DT
18. San Diego - J.J. Watt, DE/DT
19. N.Y. Giants - Anthony Castonzo, OT
20. Tampa Bay - Da'Quan Bowers, DE
21. Kansas City - Gabe Carimi, OT
22. Indianapolis - Derek Sherrod, OT
23. Philadelphia - Jimmy Smith, CB
24. New Orleans - Muhammed Wilkerson, DT
25. Seattle - Ryan Mallett, QB
26. Baltimore - Cameron Heyward, DE/DT
27. Atlanta - Justin Houston, DE
28. New England - Brooks Reed, DE/LB
29. Chicago - Nate Solder, OT
30. N.Y. Jets - Phil Taylor, DT
31. Pittsburgh - Benjamin Ijalana, OL
32. Green Bay - Akeem Ayers, LB

33. New England - Mark Ingram, RB
34. Buffalo - Colin Kaepernick, QB
35. Cincinnati - Christian Ponder, QB
36. Denver - Kyle Rudolph, TE
37. Cleveland - Marvin Austin, DT
38. Arizona - Jabaal Sheard, DE/LB
39. Tennessee - Andy Dalton, QB
40. Dallas - Christian Ballard, DE/DT
41. Washington - Mikel Leshoure, RB
42. Houston - Aaron Williams, CB
43. Minnesota - Adrian Clayborn, DE
44. Detroit - Martez Wilson, LB
45. San Francisco - Brandon Harris, CB
46. Denver - Stephen Paea, DT
47. St. Louis - Randall Cobb, WR
48. Oakland - Stefen Wisniewski, OL
49. Jacksonville - Torrey Smith, WR
50. San Diego - Ras-I Dowling, CB
51. Tampa Bay - Danny Watkins, OL
52. N.Y. Giants - Bruce Carter, LB
53. Indianapolis - Rahim Moore, S
54. Philadelphia - Rodney Hudson, OL
55. Kansas City - Jonathan Baldwin, WR
56. New Orleans - Ryan Williams, RB
57. Seattle - Marcus Cannon, OL
58. Baltimore - Davon House, CB
59. Atlanta - Jerrel Jernigan, WR
60. New England - Orlando Franklin, OL
61. San Diego - Sam Acho, DE/LB
62. Chicago - Drake Nevis, DT
63. Pittsburgh - Curtis Brown, CB
64. Green Bay - Allen Bailey, DE/DT

65. Carolina - Kenrick Ellis, DT
66. Cincinnati - Tyler Sash, S
67. Denver - Quan Sturdivant, LB
68. Buffalo - Jarvis Jenkins, DE/DT
69. Arizona - Will Rackley, OL
70. Cleveland - Titus Young, WR
71. Dallas - Brandon Burton, CB
72. New Orleans - Mason Foster, LB
73. Houston - James Carpenter, OL
74. New England - Leonard Hankerson, WR
75. Detroit - Clint Boling, OL
76. San Francisco - Chris Carter, DE/LB
77. Tennessee - Greg Jones, LB
78. St. Louis - Taiwan Jones, RB
79. Miami - Daniel Thomas, RB
80. Jacksonville - Quinton Carter, S
81. Oakland - Chimdi Chekwa, CB
82. San Diego - Marcus Gilbert, OL
83. N.Y. Giants - Luke Stocker, TE
84. Tampa Bay - Lance Kendricks, TE
85. Philadelphia - Jurrell Casey, DT
86. Kansas City - Dontay Moch, LB
87. Indianapolis - Jerrell Powe, DT
88. New Orleans - DeAndre McDaniel, S
89. San Diego - Kelvin Sheppard, LB
90. Baltimore - Tandon Doss, WR
91. Atlanta - D.J. Williams, TE
92. New England - Johnny Patrick, CB
93. Chicago - Edmund Gates, WR
94. N.Y. Jets - Greg Little, WR
95. Pittsburgh - Sione Fua, DT
96. Green Bay - Kendall Hunter, RB
97. Carolina - James Brewer, OL

98. Carolina - Marcus Gilchrist, CB
99. Seattle - Pernell McPhee, DE
100. Buffalo - Jordan Cameron, TE
101. Cincinnati - Jordan Todman, RB
102. Cleveland - Jason Pinkston, OL
103. Arizona - Ricky Stanzi, QB
104. Philadelphia - Casey Matthews, LB
105. Houston - Jaiquawn Jarrett, S
106. Minnesota - Curtis Marsh, CB
107. Detroit - DeMarco Murray, RB
108. San Francisco - Jacquizz Rodgers, RB
109. Tennessee - Shareece Wright, CB
110. Dallas - Chris Conte, S
111. Miami - Vincent Brown, WR
112. St. Louis - John Moffitt, OL
113. Oakland - Virgil Green, TE
114. Jacksonville - Kendric Burney, CB
115. San Francisco - Kristofer O'Dowd, OL
116. Tampa Bay - Shane Vereen, RB
117. N.Y. Giants - Terrell McClain, DT
118. Kansas City - Jake Kirkpatrick, OL
119. Indianapolis - Terrance Toliver, WR
120. Philadelphia - Ahmad Black, S
121. Jacksonville - Nate Irving, LB
122. Buffalo - Colin McCarthy, LB
123. Baltimore - Jeremy Beal, DE/LB
124. Atlanta - K.J. Wright, LB
125. New England - Joseph Barksdale, OL
126. N.Y. Jets - Robert Sands, S
127. Chicago - Demarcus Love, OL
128. Pittsburgh - Lawrence Guy, DE/DT
129. Green Bay - Austin Pettis, WR
130. Tennessee - Greg Romeus, DE
131. Green Bay - Rashad Carmichael, CB
Posted By: RocDawg Re: 1st Round Mock - 04/19/11 11:22 AM
Great 1-3, Im not familiar with Pinkston in the 4th so I would be tempted to add stanzi to replace jake or seneca. But I would love if we ended up Quinn,Austin,Young.
Posted By: clevesteve Re: 1st Round Mock - 04/19/11 12:35 PM
I like any Moch that has us taking a good DE and DT in the first two rounds. I like Pettis, too... but I see Pinkston as strictly a guard. I'd have preferred Carpenter in the 3rd and V. Brown in the 4th, but that's nitpicking. I'd be happy if this was the way the draft went.
Posted By: Jester Re: 1st Round Mock - 04/19/11 01:29 PM
With Quinn DE NC in round 1 and Austin DT NC in round 2 you could have grabbed:

Little WR NC in the 3rd
Sturdivant LB NC in the 4th
Williams S NC in the 5th
Perhaps TJ Yates QB NC in the 6th or 7th.

If nothing else that would be the best draft Butch Davis ever gave us.
Posted By: Jester Re: 1st Round Mock - 04/19/11 01:35 PM
But seriously, nice work.

If the top 5 play out that way I am using all our time on the clock looking to trade down.

Titus Young or Leonard Hankerson in the 3rd are great value.

I see you have Brewer going to Carolina at the end of the 3rd but I firmly believe that if he is there when our 4th round pick comes around then he is the guy we choose.
Posted By: no_logo_required Re: 1st Round Mock - 04/19/11 02:42 PM
Quote:

I see Pinkston as strictly a guard.




I agree, but I also see Pinkston as a pretty decent backup OT. Also, he'd be a really good OG for us as he's quick with his feet (WCO tend to have alot of pulling OGs).

depends on if we decide we can resign Yates. if we are pretty sure we are keeping him, then no reason for Pinkston. if we think we will lose him, then Pinkston and Lavaou can battle for RG.
Posted By: clevesteve Re: 1st Round Mock - 04/19/11 02:43 PM
Quote:

I like any Moch that has us taking a good DE and DT in the first two rounds. I like Pettis, too... but I see Pinkston as strictly a guard. I'd have preferred Carpenter in the 3rd and V. Brown in the 4th, but that's nitpicking. I'd be happy if this was the way the draft went.




Wow... now there's a freudian slip that's hard to explain. Especially considering my feelings on the actual guy.
Posted By: no_logo_required Re: 1st Round Mock - 04/19/11 02:46 PM
Quote:

Quote:

I like any Moch that has us taking a good DE and DT in the first two rounds. I like Pettis, too... but I see Pinkston as strictly a guard. I'd have preferred Carpenter in the 3rd and V. Brown in the 4th, but that's nitpicking. I'd be happy if this was the way the draft went.




Wow... now there's a freudian slip that's hard to explain. Especially considering my feelings on the actual guy.




it's the first time I have seen you write "moch" and "good DE" in the same sentence.
Posted By: candyman92 Re: 1st Round Mock - 04/26/11 08:05 AM































Posted By: YTownBrownsFan Re: 1st Round Mock - 04/26/11 08:26 AM
I'm not trying to be mean or anything ..... but we went the big strong WR who drops the ball like it was second nature a few years ago ... and if we do so again, I will projectile vomit.
Posted By: no_logo_required Re: 1st Round Mock - 04/26/11 03:38 PM
Will Smith and Heyward as "Buckeye Bookends" in NO.

I've given up on Carimi falling to #37 (in September last year), so we're not getting our "Badger Bookends" so it'd be cool to still be able to use an associated nickname
Posted By: candyman92 Re: 1st Round Mock - 04/26/11 05:26 PM
Quote:

I'm not trying to be mean or anything ..... but we went the big strong WR who drops the ball like it was second nature a few years ago ... and if we do so again, I will projectile vomit.




Julio has much better character and works his behind off. That is what seperates him from braLEON
Posted By: YTownBrownsFan Re: 1st Round Mock - 04/26/11 09:05 PM
But he still drops easy passes that hit him in the hands. He lacks concentration. We went down that road, and it was great for 1 year, and frustrating as hell the rest of his time here.
Posted By: DeepThreat Re: 1st Round Mock - 04/26/11 09:07 PM
Julio has almost entirely overcome his dropping issues. It doesn't happen often. And like candy said, Julio is a completely different person than Braylon.
Posted By: DeepThreat Re: 1st Round Mock - 04/26/11 09:08 PM
Julio has almost entirely overcome his dropping issues. It doesn't happen often. And like candy said, Julio is a completely different person than Braylon.

Also, nice mock, candy. It's pretty similar to mine, actually.
Posted By: cfrs15 Re: 1st Round Mock - 04/27/11 02:37 AM
Jason La Canfora is saying the Redskins want to move up to pick #2 to get Gabbert.
Posted By: clevesteve Re: 1st Round Mock - 04/27/11 02:38 AM
Let's see... they have no 3rd or 4th round pick this year and they're at 10.

My guess is this year's 1st and 5th, and next year's 1st and 2nd should get them there.
Posted By: cfrs15 Re: 1st Round Mock - 04/27/11 02:41 AM
Shanahan traded up to get Cutler in Denver also.
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