Your new Brown...Pick #21! - DawgTalkers.net

Im readin a lot of stuff now that says he could be a very good 3 technique DT...so perhaps he would be well suited to be our DT along with a guy like Rubin.

Im intrigued now. A 334 pound guy that seems to play like a guy who is 280/290...but, even if he can get handled by smaller guys like he has had a tendency to in college...he has 30-40 pounds on other DTs that teams have. I think we have our Pat Williams and Kevin Williams in him and Rubin.

Go with a DL of Jayme Mitchell, Phil Taylor, Ahtyba Rubin, and Matt Roth/Marcus Benard/FA/Draft Pick?

That could be tough to move on

Quote:

We probably could have gotten Taylor at #37.

How can you even remotely surmise that?

Do you have draft boards for all the teams from picks 21-36?

There was a run on DT's and Taylor was rated higher than Austin, Paea, Casey, etc.

There's no sense in waiting if you want a DT. Taylor was the last guy left with a first round grade. Why wait and hope he's there when you have a stockpile of picks?

Quote:

We snatched up 3-4 NT run stuffer with issues for our 4-3 D in a division that loves to throw the ball, and all it cost us was our 3rd round pick. Awesome!

Seriously. I want to be wrong, I really really really really do.

Well, i don't know if we've finished above 25th in run defense since our return to the league. I'd like to see that fixed sometime before I kick the bucket.

Hopefully.....HOPEFULLY....this is a start.

Quote:

Quote:

We snatched up 3-4 NT run stuffer with issues for our 4-3 D in a division that loves to throw the ball, and all it cost us was our 3rd round pick. Awesome!

Seriously. I want to be wrong, I really really really really do.

It'd be nice to see we may some kind of run D now. I was really afraid we'd go for the smaller, faster DT types.

I dont like the 3rd round pick, but this guy wouldn't have made it to 27 ... he was supposedly the best nose tackle ... and I wouldnt be surprised to see someone try to go get him .... especially a pittsburgh or a baltimore?

Who knows. For now ... he's a brown, and I can't wait to see the rest of the picks. Hopefully we can continue rebuilding the defensive side ... and next year we will have enough ammunition to take anyone we want.

J/C

I remember not so long ago, was it KNIGHT? that was talking about how bad our defense was and we couldn't get off the field.

Not a sexy pick to be sure, and I am surprised actually that they didn't go offense given the coach they hired but right now, instead of saying nay nay nay!! I rather mull it over, see the guy play and hope that the deal was worth it.

And don't forget gentleman, we have a TON of other picks to work with still.

Quote:

We probably could have gotten Taylor at #37.

Umm, like NO WAY?

Several teams would have taken him before that..debatable if he'd make it to #27 but I like to go for what you really want...Colts, the Chiefs themselves and surely the Seahawks were candidates to pick Taylor...

I think it's a great pick at a value position which sets up the draft perfectly position wise....there simply weren't many more 3 down DTs left...he was the most balanced along with Paea and he surely wins the size battle with Paea....good pick, trust me

Read this:

http://www.thehuddlereport.com/huddlenotes/?p=532

Quote:

Quote:

We snatched up 3-4 NT run stuffer with issues for our 4-3 D in a division that loves to throw the ball, and all it cost us was our 3rd round pick. Awesome!

Seriously. I want to be wrong, I really really really really do.

I don't hate the pick, I hate the pick we took where we took it and don't agree with what it cost us. I seriously hope the guy is a beast. He better be, we have one less pick because of him.

After seeing all these teams go DL, there is no way we were gonna get Taylor at 27.

Quote:

After seeing all these teams go DL, there is no way we were gonna get Taylor at 27.

THIS!! I'm good w/ the pick.

Strengths:
• Excellent size and bulk with a big frame
• Very strong, powerful and physical
• Nice balance and stays on his feet
• Stout at the point of attack and can anchor
• Able to take on and occupy multiple blockers
• Does a terrific job of stuffing the run
• Good bull rusher and will push the pocket
• Violent hands and uses them well
• Aggressive and plays with an edge
• Offers some schematic versatility

Weaknesses:
• Weight, conditioning and stamina are problematic
• Not very fast, quick, agile or explosive
• Doesn't always play with proper leverage
• Not real mobile and lacks great range
• Is awfully limited as a pass rusher
• Questionable instincts and awareness
• Might have some durability issues
• Character concerns after off-the-field trouble

Notes:
Began college career at Penn State, where he redshirted then started five games over the next two years --- Arrested on assault charges following a fight at a frat party in 2008 and after initially being suspended was dismissed from the Nittany Lion football team and opted to transfer --- Was a two-year starter for the Bears --- Named 2nd Team All-Big 12 in 2010 --- Was hampered by a sprained knee in '07 and missed time with a turf toe in '09 --- Showed lots of potential early in career then struggled as a junior before really coming on as a senior and improving draft stock -- Possesses intriguing size and profiles as a prototypical nose tackle in a even (4-3) or odd (3-4) front.

Link

Not even out of the 1st round and we have had 2 trades ... still have 8 picks to work with including 2 tomorrow... right? And who thinks we wont make some moves anyways?

I hear stuff but who would have taken him. It was a bunch of 4-3's after us. The Chiefs, the Ravens? I doubt that. We obviously did it for a reason but a 3-4 NT who has an in-operable physical problem and a questionable additude for our very slow defense that is moving to a faster scheme... it just doens't make sense on a dozen levels.

And I'm watching vid of the kid and it's NOT making me feel better. No push, single teams, nothing special. Big and slow.

Who do you like for round 2?

Daquan Bowers
Aaron Williams
Kyle Rudolph
Akeem Ayers
Justin Houston
Brandon Harris
Ryan Mallet
Stephen Paea
Marvin Austin
Brooks Reed
Andy Dalton
Mikel Lashoure
Jabaal Sheard
Martez Wilson
Christian Ballard
Ras I-Dowling
Titus Young
Bruce Carter
Rahim Moore

Quote:

Who do you like for round 2?

Daquan Bowers
Aaron Williams
Kyle Rudolph
Akeem Ayers
Justin Houston
Brandon Harris
Ryan Mallet
Stephen Paea
Marvin Austin
Brooks Reed
Andy Dalton
Mikel Lashoure
Jabaal Sheard
Martez Wilson
Christian Ballard
Ras I-Dowling
Titus Young
Bruce Carter
Rahim Moore

I hate saying this, but no one on that list outside of Bowers intrigues me. All decent players and could be some stars in there, but the only one that is going to make me say YES! is Bowers.

I dont give a crap about sexy!

This guy is big, mean and ugly and thats what i want in the trenches!

Well for another, the Jets, Pittsburgh, Green Bay, Baltimore, New England could have taken him as the best 3-4 tackle? He was rated above wilkerson by many and for all we know he was also a steal at 21 for us the way that many thought TJ was a reach ...

Let's hope so.........................................

He was compared to Ngata by some. We passed on him, remember?

I like Houston, Reed, and Beard at DE and I love Titus Young if he's there with our lower 2nd rounder

Right ... we passed on wilkerson - a kid from a mac school ... to take a guy who won play time as a true freshmen in the big ten and became a solid starter at baylor.

Taylor was rated higher than baylor is what I was saying ... I guess you didn't read.

I hope the kid is the next resurrection of Jerry Sherk,...

But I won't hold my breath.

I take a shot on Bowers if he is there. I wouldnt have taken a chance in the first but 2nd he is worth the risk if u think he can play.

As for the Phil Taylor pick, the dude can ball and chances are Seattle would have taken him and the Jets were probably trying to trade up for him as well. Rex Ryan loved the kid.

I dunno ....... probably Ras I-Dowling, Brooks Reed, or Torrey Smith would be interesting names.

Also ... Rahim Moore is still there is they want to really make that secondary a strong point.

He and Ward could make an interesting duo.

I almost wouldn't be opposed to trading DOWN with our second - second round pick ... (or even the first one if we don't go too far ... if a team really wants to come up for a QB then let Oakland do it for Kaepernick for example, or seattle fo it for mallet?) ... if we keep a mid / late round second ... plus have the 2nd from atlanta, then we could still net another third?

At that point I wouldn't mind picking up Leonard Hankerson Now or a Randall Cobb pretty soon ...

But if Brandon Harris or Aaron Williams are on the board in 5 picks ... look out.

There's a LOT of talent in the top 10 or so of the 2nd round.

Depending on how things fall, I wouldn't even be opposed to trade back slightly with our 1st 2nd rounder, if I could pick up a 3rd as well. I don't think that I would drop more than 5 spots ... and only if I had 5 guys fairly close in my rankings. However, I think that Heckert has let it be known that he is willing to be blown away in a trade.

Personally I like the pick, nothing sexy just a mean nasty guy that does the dirty work. Really sick of teams running up the gut on us, Sick of watching Rothlesburger scramble straight up the middle to convert a third and long. This guy isn't moving. Between him and Rubin we are young, strong and stout up the middle. Good job Heckert!

With this pick and trade, we are going to be loaded with young top end talent over the next few years. You build through the draft. Guarantee Mike pouncey isn't looking forward to playing against the Browns. they need to commit 4 guys to just two of ours...

Apparently Julio Jones was not a "target" then, since we traded out after Peterson and Green were gone. Obviously also then, Fairley, Bowers, and Quinn never were on the radar either.

Watt, Heyward, Costanzo,..all Goodbye Boys.

Just goes to show, you can't believe a thing anybody says -- OR posts -- before draft day.

It's a crapshoot.

The way I see it, it's like we netted a poor man's dareus with a lot of ability still ...

and while we had to trade away a 3rd rounder to get him, we also netter a pair of fourths, a second, and a 1st next year .... I don't see a problem.

J/C
Here it is in a nutshell,
with a draft board full of athletes we trade up to draft a fat guy that can't move.
In a division that's turning into a passing one,we have the fatest and slowest.

Only the first next year has any value, in my opinion.

more highlights from a Jets site.

http://www.thejetsblog.com/2011/04/14/film-room-baylor-nt-phil-taylor-highlights/

Im not proclaiming him to be the best ever mind you, as there is footage and film of EVERY player in this draft having bad snaps or games. But furthermore, I don't buy into other random fan's viewpoints just for an FYI ... those guys might call Taylor a ham sandwich after all ... and then we don't know what that means ...

Quote:

J/C
Here it is in a nutshell,
with a draft board full of athletes we trade up to draft a fat guy that can't move.
In a division that's turning into a passing one,we have the fatest and slowest.

And,..while six offensive tackles were taken in those first 32 picks.

Somebody, please reassure me, we know what we are doing.

There were also how many quarterbacks taken in the top 15? Just because others have higher grades doesn't mean we don't (or do) know what we are doing ... it just means we have yet to see what our plan is ...

The point is, we don't need a QB,...we NEED a tackle. And we also need the DT we took in Taylor. It just doesn't match my personal philosophy of what I believe the Browns should be doing, and that is an opinion.

It isn't fair,nether is life.
I'm at a draft party with a$50,000 Apex machine and some staunch Browns supporters.And it was "who?"
There was film on this kid from his freshmen practices,and the big mystery was "how does this big boy with no movement,no athleticism become a 1st round pick?"
B.U.S.T he will eat himself out of the NFL.

Understood, and that I can agree with. My side is that if we worry too much about what everyone else is doing, we will still have a lot of holes to fill while ALSO reaching on a prospect.

Besides, they do seem set at bringing back our current incumber Pashos as the projected starter, so we can still grab another linemen soon or maybe with the late 2nd or early 4th to develop for a year?

Believe me, nothing would make me happier than knowing Pashos was going to pan out this year and Lauvao steps in, and this line becomes the 1980's Redskins Hogs.

In my mind,...THAT's what wins football games.

One thing to think about.

This pick implies we will be running a dual 2-gap DT system (Rubin/Taylor on the inside).

This is actually a much easier switch from the 3-4, than playing a 3-gap system (like we would be playing with a Fairley/Dareus type).

With two 2-gap DTs in the middle, we can afford to play our 3-4 OLBs (Roth/Gocong) as undersized DEs on the outside - instead of having to go out and find larger run stopping DEs for our system.

Our DL next year could look:

Roth/Rubin/Taylor/Gocong

If we could pick up a guy like Ayers at the beginning of the second tomorrow, to pair next to Jackson - we'd have a pretty complete transition, while only using two picks to do it.

That being said - really would have liked to grab Carimi at 27 -- or even better, take that trade with the Saints so that we'd control the draft next year.

~Lyuokdea

As you can well guess, I would have pissed myself to get a tackle like Carimi.

Well, if we don't scoop up a top DE (which would be unfortunate), we might have a pretty solid one come over in FA ... with the money we saved on the cap from trading down from 6 to 21 overall .. we can also look to bring in a Sidney Rice (as a side note) or whoever ...

But with the top picks remaining that I would like to have ...

Gotta think about Bowers.... barring a knee issue he could have been the #1 overall ... to get him at 37 would be awesome

I still like Hankerson and Cobb .. Aaron Williams and Brandon Harris ... Brooks Reed ...? could be fun tomorrow!

I like the Taylor pick quite a bit. It looks like Jauron is going to be running the defense he ran in Chicago. He had two big defensive tackles in the middle to take up blockers and stop the run with two small, fast defensive ends to make plays. Expect us to take someone like Brooks Reed or Jabaal Sheard soon.

Taylor is a player. He's athletic for his size, and he's incredibly strong. Honestly, he can even play 3 tech. Good luck running up the middle against us with him and Rubin there.

I think my board going into round 2 looks something like:

Brooks Reed, DE Arizona
Akeem Ayers, OLB, UCLA
Justin Houston, DE, Georgia
Clint Boling, OG, Georgia

I think we'll be able to get one of these, since Cincy will probably go QB....

I would be psyched with Da'Quan Bowers, for sure -- but I can't project him at this point without injury knowledge.

~Lyuokdea

I read that he was compared to Kris Jenkins. If he can be that type of player it would be a steal. I would have rather picked Carimi at 27 but that's me.

btw........

Someone needs to change their sig

Quote:

We probably could have gotten Taylor at #37.

I was just ticked about the 3rd. It's a good pick. I was saying I wanted 2 DL with our first two picks. If the feet aren't a problem, then it was a very good pick. And if I didn't see how quickly Indy was on the phone with Castonzo I could see them making that pick at 22. It was a good pick. I just thought we way overpaid to get not the best guy available. I felt like we were losing value. You look at the Bengals coming away with Green and the ravens getting Smith and the Steelers getting Heyward at #31... And we're dropping one of our prime picks to move up for Taylor.

It feels like reaching for need. We traded down from a prime position, see the Bengals get an elite player, the Ravens and Steelers getting terrific values on players we could have taken, and we're giving away a 240 point pick for a 120 point pick difference to a team who was allegedly "desperate" to trade out of the first round.

Cameron Jordan was still on the board. We had just not moved up to take Amukamara. I just felt like we wasted a golden opportunity and lost value.

Ok, I have had a chance to think about this.

I like the player, but I don't think it was appropriate to move up for him.

I thought it was going to be Jordan... which would have made sense.

The loss of the 70th pick (3rd rounder) bothers me.

I could've gone either way on our last two first round picks (Mack and Haden) and I feel the same about this one.

Let's hope this one turns out to be as successful as the past two.

Quote:

(On his general reaction to being drafted by the Browns and if he was surprised)- “No, I wasn’t that surprised. I didn’t think it was going to be me at first when you guys were at the sixth pick overall, but when I saw you guys trade back, I started to think a little bit. Then when the 21st pick came around and Kansas City was still there, then my agent told me that you guys were doing some trading around and I kind of thought it was going to be me and that’s when the phone rang.”

(On how he describes himself as a player and what he does well)- “I stop the run. I’m a great run-stopping defensive tackle and I can give you a good pass rush as well.”

(On if he is comfortable in the 4-3 defense)- “Yes, I played the 4-3 my whole college career.”

(On if he has thought about starting or playing a lot right away)- “I’ve thought about it, but going to the next level, it’s a tough task. I just want to take it all in and work hard and do what I’ve got to do to get on the field.”

(On playing in cold weather)- “I’ve played in the cold before. I was at Penn State for two years and also I grew up in Washington D.C., so playing in the cold wouldn’t be problem for me at all.”

(On why he thought the Browns were going to draft him)- “My agent was just giving me a lot of info. When I was on my visit it felt like home and I liked the coaches a lot. When I saw that they had traded up to the 21st pick, I just had a feeling it was going to be me.”

(On if leaving Penn State was a concern during draft process)- “I don’t think it was a concern. I was young and I made a mistake, but I moved on from it. Then I went down to Baylor and just made the best of a second chance and I’m happy to be in this situation now.”

(On where he is right now)- “I’m backstage at the draft, still at the draft. I’m in New York.”

(On if he is glad the issues with his feet are over with)- “It’s was just rumors that’s all it was. I just figured it was a couple other teams later back that wanted to throw some things out there so they could maybe end up getting me. That’s all that was.”

(On if he took note of where he was rated in mock drafts)- “It’s not up to those guys in rating players and all that, it’s all up to the g.m.’s and the coaches in who they want, so that’s what I think.”

(On his statistical improvement from his junior to senior year at Baylor)- “The biggest thing was getting my weight down. That was one thing that helped me out a lot my senior year was playing at a lower weight, doing the necessary things off the field with my cardio which is what helped me out tremendously.”

(On the impact of his trip to Kenya on his life)- “It was just a humbling experience. I went down there and helped out the underprivileged kids there and it just made me realize how blessed I am and how fortunate we are to be here.”

(On his pre-draft conversations with Tom Heckert)- “We didn’t really talk a lot other than when I was there for the visit. I guess they were trying to keep it a real secret but, I’m just glad they picked me. I look forward to being there and playing for the Cleveland Browns.”

(On who he compares himself to as a player)- “I compare myself a lot to like a Casey Hampton, Vince Wilfork type of person.”

(On being selected over other big names still on the draft board such as Da’Quan Bowers)- “Yes, I was waiting. I didn’t think he would drop this far. I thought he was going to go like every pick after the 15th or so I thought it was probably going to be him. I’m just happy right now.”

(On if he will use being passed up by other teams as motivation this year)- “Who wouldn’t? I’m going to use it as motivation to make me better, to play even harder.”

.com

I look at it this way.

Phil Taylor is a good player. Pairing him at DT with Rubin solidifies our interior DLine. We needed tons of help on the DLine, so there are worse things in the world than getting a really good player at a position of need.

The flip side of this is, we entered the night with the #6 pick in the draft. SIX. We left the night with Phil Taylor. A late 1st/early 2nd round talent. Not only that but we had to trade UP to get him, so now we have no 3rd round pick.

Yes we added a very late 2nd rounder. The 4th rounder we got is "meh". The 4th rounder next year is "meh". Yeah we'll get a late 1st rounder next year. That will be nice next year but does nothing right now.

We started the night with picks
#6
#37
#70

we now have picks
#21 Phil Taylor
#37
#59

So we dropped 15 spots, from an elite position, to the end of the round to draft Taylor. In exchange we essentially moved up from #70 to #59 and added a first NEXT year. If somebody said "Hey we'll give you picks #21 and #59 for your #6 and #70?" I'd tell them to take a flying leap.

So again, I don't hate the pick or the player, but I hate what we had to give up to get him...and the fact that we had the ability to get a flat out stud at #6 and openly chose not to. Not to mention some of the talent on the board when we picked him. Hello Cameron Jordan anybody?? It appears we chose to get 3 "B/C" players instead of 1 "A" player and 1 "B" player. Quantity over quality. I understand the thinking considering the number of holes we have, but I'm not sure I agree with it. Of course we wouldn't have half the holes we currently have if we didn't fire the coach and force a new offensive AND defensive scheme on us...but I digress.

I like the extra picks that came with trading down from 6. After Peterson was taken at 5 (I knew he would of not been available). I'm happy with the Taylor pick, but in all honesty I didn't see it coming, but hey we still have plenty of draft left and a 1st and 4th round picks from Atlanta next year.

Good Job H&H.

Folks seem to be upset that we traded away our 70rh selection in the 3rd round, but hey we still have the 59th to ho along with our 37th selection and we maybe be in a better position now to draft a WR in the 2nd round with one of our two picks. Lots of good talent is left on the board for tomorrow

The Eagles selected two defensive tackles during Heckert's tenure Brodrick Bunkley and Mike Patterson.

I don't know much about either, but just from looking at those pages I can tell that Patterson has started 4 1/2 years for the Eagles. And Bunkley started three consecutive years for them until he was injured last season.

I'm sure someone else has more knowledge of these players that they can share with us.

j/c

My only question on this pick is... Was he the BPA? If so, then great. If not, then why did we draft him?

Neither guy lived up to the hype. We did need a DT, though, and Taylor is a good player.

Quote:

j/c

My only question on this pick is... Was he the BPA? If so, then great. If not, then why did we draft him?

Not a chance. We reached based on need. And gave up picks to do it. Granted he's a good fit at a position of need, but it was a reach to fill a need nonetheless.

Two things:

1. I loved the trade down out of 6. That's 5 picks, two first round picks at that. In a draft that's considered by many, including me, to be subpar. Awesome move.

2. To use a poker analogy, it's like Heckert had tons of chips all of a sudden and misplayed a hand because of it. Once I made that trade I watch what happens. There are guys like Christian Ponder going at 12 and other reaches and I'm thinking I may have 4 or 5 guys I'd love to have at 27. But he didn't and I think that was a mistake.

Phil Taylor must have been on a clearly different level from the rest of the options to trade away a very valuable 3rd. If he truly is and is a Casey Hampton, Vince Wilfork, Kris Jenkins type then I'm all in! If he's not...and judging by some highlights I don't think he is...then it was a misstep.

I'd have loved to sit pat and grab Carimi at 27. But that didn't happen. Great job on the trade down. Count me in for another trade down for a 2012 first rounder at 37.

2011 is a learning year where we end up at .500. 2012 maybe we make noise. 2013 we start challenging. And that's BEST CASE SCENARIO.

And that's why trading down in 2011 is smart.

Every GM has some amount of hubris. Belicheck does it best because he trades down consistantly getting more picks to get one of them right. It would be my modus operandi.

Welcome to Cleveland kid. Bust your butt, and keep a good attitude and we will love ya. Also learn to ignore all the wanna be GM's running around Cleveland who prove every year just why they don't have jobs in the NFL. It's because they don't know squat but love to run around like roosters trying to strut their stuff and impress everybody.

Analysis: Taylor has been automatically labeled a true nose tackle simply because he is 337 pounds (and much more throughout his career). He will need to improve his hands and make his hat reads more consistently. The physical ability and the inability of linemen to budge him throughout the week was impressive, but Taylor will require technique work to accompany his staggering natural ability.

Two points, which I originally wrote in January, must be elaborated.

First, hand play was somewhat of an issue in Mobile. Upon further review, particularly the Texas Bowl, Taylor’s hands were much better upon further review. He continually controlled offensive linemen. He shot his hands and he hustled throughout the entire game. Two positives that were questioned earlier.

Second, Taylor has been labeled as a pure two-gap performer. That’s the furthest thing from the truth after watching him in person. He was continually shooting gaps and has the needed athleticism to be a 3-technique in the Browns new four man front. Physically, his potential play and size remind scouts of former Brown Shaun Rogers.

As Cleveland transitions into said scheme, one only has to look at history to see the type of defense new coordinator Dick Jauron prefers. Ted Washington and Keith Traylor were mammoth interior defenders which were impossible to budge as Chicago jumped out to a 13-3 record during the 2002 season. Taylor’s size has already been mentioned, but he will pair with one of the best interior defenders in the NFL, the 335-pound Ahytba Rubin.

Cleveland is making a concerted effort to stop the run and allowing its young and talented secondary to make plays when opposing teams are put in obvious passing situations.

scout.com

Tom Heckert

(On rumors about Taylor’s feet having problems and if he checked out okay)- “There was absolutely nothing with it. I would have to check on this and I’ll tell you tomorrow, but something showed up like a false-negative on one of the things, so they did a CAT scan, but he’s fine. There are no problems at all, no issues what so ever.”

http://www.clevelandbrowns.com/news/arti...3d-8987b61e33bb

Phil Taylor.... I just don't know a thing about him other than what some have posted on this thread.

Seems to be iffy.. Apparently a solid run stuffer, I got no issue with that, we've not been able to stop the run consistently since we returned in 99. So maybe it's time to address that problem.

still can't believe that cinci took Green.., who's gonna throw to him?

I kind of like this pick.

With Rubin & Taylor facing teams on the line, I think we'll see blocks being eaten up.

We've got Benard and maybe Roth out there on the edges. I don't think I mind that so much.

We could be looking at a receiver and a corner in the second.

Roddy White doesn't seem impressed...lol...

CHARLOTTE, N.C. -- I just finished a news conference with Carolina coach Ron Rivera and Marty Hurney, walked out and got hit with the news the Atlanta Falcons had traded up to grab wide receiver Julio Jones at No. 6.

Wow, that’s a leap. In fact, it’s such a big leap that further analysis on new Carolina quarterback Cam Newton can wait a bit.

My first reaction as a reporter was to say to myself, “What does Roddy White think?’’, so I turned to White’s verified Twitter account.

His first reaction: “Well we got Julio Jones. I’m excited.’’

Apparently, White then saw the same details on the trade that I saw. The Falcons gave up their first-round pick (No. 27) this year as well as their second- and fourth-round picks in this draft. They also gave up their first- and fourth-round picks in 2012 to move up to No. 6 to grab Jones.

“Well, I was wrong,’’ White tweeted exactly a minute later. “We give up our draft.’’

White’s pretty much right. The Falcons basically gave up most of this year’s draft to get Jones. He’s a playmaking receiver from Alabama and, in theory, he and White should team together to provide franchise quarterback Matt Ryan with a great duo at receiver.

http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcsouth/post/_/id/20555/falcons-go-all-in-for-julio-jones

Hate to root against them this year as I like them but they are "just" a solid team that had some little things going to win the close ones (maybe that's what makes a good team in the NFL nowadays) but there's alwas potential for a drop off in production, due to injuries or increased expectation/pressure/schedule etc...they aren't sure shots to be picking this late again next draft...we just could have landed a 10-20 pick as well

For us the deal was ok and made sense...for them? I think they overplayed their hand for what will essentially be their #2 WR the next years

After all that movement we end up with... Phil Taylor. Talk about a buzzkill! LOL. Oh well... I don't know much about him, so I trust that Heckert and crew made a good pick.

It's just hard for me to imagine we had Taylor rated higher than Cameron Jordan (who I THOUGHT was the guy we were moving up to get -- I was pretty excited about THAT LOL). Apparently, he was our target though. Interesting indeed.

Quote:

After all that movement we end up with... Phil Taylor. Talk about a buzzkill! LOL. Oh well... I don't know much about him, so I trust that Heckert and crew made a good pick.

It's just hard for me to imagine we had Taylor rated higher than Cameron Jordan (who I THOUGHT was the guy we were moving up to get -- I was pretty excited about THAT LOL). Apparently, he was our target though. Interesting indeed.

Think Vikings Williams/Williams Interior...

Think Bears Traylor/Washington Interior...

This is a huge step in stopping the run...

Now go get A. Williams CB...NOW...

Quote:

After all that movement we end up with... Phil Taylor. Talk about a buzzkill! LOL. Oh well... I don't know much about him, so I trust that Heckert and crew made a good pick.

It's just hard for me to imagine we had Taylor rated higher than Cameron Jordan (who I THOUGHT was the guy we were moving up to get -- I was pretty excited about THAT LOL). Apparently, he was our target though. Interesting indeed.

Yeah, I went to bed last night worked up. The girlfriend is angry because I got all worked up. So the Browns ruined my night and my girlfriend's night (which can be a dangerous thing for the Browns).

But I slept, woke up this morning, shook it off (and so did the g/f). Phil Taylor welcome to the Browns. Tom Heckert is a great manager, I'm sure he knows what he's doing. Hopefully Phil Taylor will be a good pro DT. I don't really care what the "Experts" say, Heckert is paid a lot of money to be an expert. He's the guy I trust.

I am still frustrated that the guy I wanted (Gabe Carimi) was picked with our spot at 27. I hope the Browns pick a RT with one of their 2nd round picks!

I guess Jordan was too "balanced" and "heavy" as a 4-3 DE for Heckert to really like him, too much of a base end. He prefers bigger guys than Jordan at DT (see Rubin and now Taylor) and smallish, pass-rushing only DEs...we better have some athletic and good tackling LBs and S to stop all those outside runs we will face

When we traded up my wishlist was 1. Jordan 2. Taylor 3. Paea 4. Watkins 5. Carimi and there were a lot of guys I'd be very disappointed with (WR Baldwin, DL Wilkerson, DE Heyward and many more)...so I'm pretty happy with Taylor

I think the Browns did not go with Gabe Carimi because, as the announcers were saying, he's a mauler, a big guy, and an excellent run blocker. if there is a better pass blocker out there, that is probably who we are targeting being we want the wco. i dont know, just my opinion

Yeah... After a small amount of reflection, I'm really not down on the pick at all. It certainly makes sense. We needed a DT to pair up with Rubin. It just wasn't what I was thinking at the time.

Too early to tell, I guess. I'll feel better after this kid slams Ray Rice to the ground a couple of times.

everyone describes him as a run stopping plug in the middle of the line. what's wrong with that?!

Quote:

Quote:

We probably could have gotten Taylor at #37.

Umm, like NO WAY?

Several teams would have taken him before that..debatable if he'd make it to #27 but I like to go for what you really want...Colts, the Chiefs themselves and surely the Seahawks were candidates to pick Taylor...

I think it's a great pick at a value position which sets up the draft perfectly position wise....there simply weren't many more 3 down DTs left...he was the most balanced along with Paea and he surely wins the size battle with Paea....good pick, trust me

Read this:

http://www.thehuddlereport.com/huddlenotes/?p=532

I thought I did a mock(not the one with Wilkerson) and had his name and I could have sworn U said sumptin bout him also being a 34 prospect...?

Still a little disappointed....feels like we drafted need and gave up our 3rd to do so. Maybe it was a jump move because all the D-linemen were moving fast...and we had to get him, but jeez.

Well, I'll open up my arms and greet him to the team. Maybe he becomes the next Pat Williams.

I believe you are totally downplaying what we got.. and exaggerating what we gave up.

Quote:

Yeah we'll get a late 1st rounder next year. That will be nice next year but does nothing right now.

Good, somebody is FINALLY trying to build a winning team, which takes a few years, instead of making a big splash in the draft so they can sell tickets and jerseys right away.

The only question I have, and I'll assume Heckert and his team know more than me, is... I think we could have gotten Phil Taylor at 27... but I don't know that for sure.

Quote:

everyone describes him as a run stopping plug in the middle of the line. what's wrong with that?!

Exactly. We have sucked against the run for a long time. And "sucked" doesn't quite do it justice. Taylor next to Rubin should make it more difficult for others to run up the middle.

The more I think about this, the more I like it.

Quote:

Apparently Julio Jones was not a "target" then, since we traded out after Peterson and Green were gone. Obviously also then, Fairley, Bowers, and Quinn never were on the radar either.

Not necessarily. We could have had some of those guys on the radar, but felt the Atlanta deal was too much to pass up.

Quote:

everyone describes him as a run stopping plug in the middle of the line. what's wrong with that?!

Nothing. We don't have Shaun Rogers anymore. I was seriously concerned about what our D would do with the loss of some serious poundage like that. They, apparently, wanted to go D line and fix that problem. Big guys with athletic skills don't grow on trees.

Quote:

I thought I did a mock(not the one with Wilkerson) and had his name and I could have sworn U said sumptin bout him also being a 34 prospect...?

Well, he is a prototypical 3-4 NT and I was sure we wanted a smaller 3tech guy next to Rubin...apparently that's not the case. He can also play in a 4-3...I liked him but he was off my radar simply because I thought he'd be gone by 37 and not being a typical 4-3 3tech

j/c
well, not surprised to see people complaining about the pick.

Hey, it was a solid pick. An anchor in the middle. Rubin next to another 334 pound beast is hard to move. I'm sick of seeing teams run up the middle. This should put an end to it.

I'm not complaining about the pick, I'm complaining about giving up a 3 to move from 27 to 21 to take a guy who I don't think was significantly better than the others who were on the board there.

I've watched his "highlights" on youtube and, while he DOES seem like he uses his size well, I was not overly impressed.
I think the Browns knew they were in dire need of some size in the middle on defense and they just didn't want to take a chance of him not being there at 27.

Bottom line is this: We trade: #6 overall and 3rd round pick this year

and we get : #21 overall pick, 2nd round (2011), 4th round (2011), 1st round (2012), and 4th round (2012).

Sounds good to me!

Quote:

The only question I have, and I'll assume Heckert and his team know more than me, is... I think we could have gotten Phil Taylor at 27... but I don't know that for sure.

I thought the same thing until I looked at it and read some things on the old Interweb this morning.

I now think that 2 maybe 3 teams were thinking of taking Taylor before 27.

If Taylor is who they really wanted, and it sure looks like he was, then jumping up to get him is OK by me.

Now we need to get a pass rusher or two and I'll feel a lot better about the upcoming season......

Quote:

I'm not complaining about the pick, I'm complaining about giving up a 3 to move from 27 to 21 to take a guy who I don't think was significantly better than the others who were on the board there.

That's a point...but you forget position value...imho DT has much more value than RT and this draft does not have many 3down DT who are scheme versatile...from that angle he was worth the move...maybe the 3rd was a steep price but keeping the 3rd and losing out on a position of urgent need whith little chance to make up for it later in the draft? It's easy to armchair GM, I know for a fact...I was somewhat disappointed too to give up the pick but when you job is on the line you tend to take the safe way to egt what you WANT and NEED...simply put: it was worth it, especially with the extra picks we got from ATL

2 ways to look at those 2 moves we did:

1. We got Taylor AND a 1st n 4th next AND a 4th this AND moved up from 70 to 59

or

2. We got Taylor AND a 1st n 4th next AND 2nd this AND moved down from 70 to 124

We still have 1 more pick in this draft than 24hours ago AND 2 valuable picks next draft

I'm VERY happy with boths ways to look at this...this wasn't a Mangini-like discount...we got real value and used about 20% of that value to secure a guy we wanted and needed, I like being pro-active and not passive like Mangini was...I screamed at the TV to trade up for Nicks with our picks...Mangini stayed put and we got Robo and Massa...I'd trade both AND Veikune for Nicks today, woudln't you?

We are now in position to get good value at positions who offer much better mid round value than DT imho...the draft isn't just the 1st and I applaud Heckert the way he played out his hand here, we finally might have a real GM here

What drafting Taylor means.

First it means we are one step closer to actually stopping everyone from running the ball down our throavs over and over and over and over and over again.

Secondly we saved enough money to sign a STUD free agent.

Third, his biggest knock in my eyes is that he doesnt fully understand how to use those long arms and big paws. Ray Rhodes is one of the best teachers in the game and should be a major asset to the young man.

Forth, DT was the strongest position of this draft and we got a good one. In fact I would not be the least bit surprised if we didnt get the second best off the board.

I agree on all 3 Mourg...Taylor has some major upside left in his game and he was pretty good to begin with, everyone raves about his run stopping ability and hustle to make tackles downfield too PLUS he generates some push..sounds like a Rubin with better athleticism/pass rush potential..I like

I might add...what this also means: Dqwell's value just increased immensly, now his instincts will show up even more....I just hope he hasn't lost too much with the injuries

Quote:

everyone describes him as a run stopping plug in the middle of the line. what's wrong with that?!

Absolutely nothing, if it happens. Trusting the FO here.

Quote:

That's a point...but you forget position value...imho DT has much more value than RT and this draft does not have many 3down DT who are scheme versatile...from that angle he was worth the move

I agree that DT was an urgent need, and that by our 3rd rounder they may be all gone... but I don't see Taylor as a significant upgrade over Kenrick Ellis, who at worst we sit tight and take at 59. Heck I wouldn't have been mad had we taken him at 37 with Heyward at #27. He is definitely a 3-down guy and from what I've read of Taylor probably has more pass rush ability. He looked like a terrific player at the senior bowl week, which was the same arena that turned me on to Tubby Rubin.

I really like the pick. Loved the trade with Atlanta. I trust Heck's judgement with regard to the trade to move up to 21, and I think that this player is going to have a much bigger impact on our defense than anyone currently expects.

I think his combination of size/strength/agility was what attracted us the most. And this combination also set him apart from all the "top-tier" DL projected to go early in the draft. I don't think any of them were on par with this guys size---and we really needed his kind of size in the middle. (though I could be wrong, haven't really paid a lot of attention to the measurables this year.)

The value we got in the trade down afforded us the opportunity to draft a need-type player without necessarily abandoning the bpa strategy that most professional gm's subscribe to.

His talent is right on par with where we grabbed him. And he fills a huge void in the center of our DL that Rubin would struggle to fill by himself.

We still need to add some more talent on the D side of the ball with the next 2-3 picks. Maybe look for a change of pace RB late in the draft. I could also see us possibly looking for WR in the 4th round.

I agree that they are comparable DT types but Taylor has much more talent and upside imho and already a more rounded game...better strength too...he wsa highly recruited out of HS

Sure, we buyed high on Taylor but there def was a crowded market for him..so the team who wanted him most is going to get him...apparently we were that team.

If this move was isolated I'd agree but in combination with the ATL trade I'm happy

Also, no guarantee that Ellis is still there at #59, so we would have to take him at #37 to make sure...I get what you're saying you'd rather have Ellis + #70 prospect than Taylor...debatable, I think both scenarios would be good with me....but don't forget: we already traded down from 6...we probably wanted more upside and impact with our 1st pick than a Carimi or Heyward (no fit anyway)

Everyone last year said we reached for TJ Ward. After a year it looks like we didn't reach at all and got great value for him. So let's wait a year before we start talking about reaches.

Today is going to be a good day. We got two 2nd round picks and 2 4th rounds picks to get back in the 3rd if we really want to. We aren't afraid of injury concerns (Ward, Hardesty, Taylor) So if we pass on Bowers again it will really say something about how scared teams are of Bowers knee.

i have to be honest, i didn't watch any of baylor live, other than some highlights. so i know nothing about phil taylor, but from what i hear, it sounds like a very smart pick, he fills our biggest need, he's great against the run.

but what i do know is that i loved the trade. the 3 guys i was hoping for were gone, and sure enough they get out of that spot.

i like julio jones, i think he would have been fine in cleveland, but what was atlanta thinking? he's not a number one receiver. and i know they won't try and make him be, but i thought it was quite the stretch to give up a number one, a number two and even a four on top of it to move up and get him?

my philosophy is that you don't trade up unless you are getting either a quarterback or a linebacker/captain/leader type. those are cornerstone guys.

but hey, i am glad we were at the other end of this deal. i would have thought our value for that pick would have dropped ridiculously with green, peterson, dareus, miller off the board. apparently not. heckert should be arrested. i think there is a warrant out in atlanta for him.

it's crazy that people went heavy on a few positions yesterday. 1 linebacker taken, no safeties, 4 quarterbacks, a truckload of defensive linemen, 1 rb, 2 wr.

i'm still saying we go bpa with these 2 picks though. just get us 2 more players, the best pros available.

I don't think Taylor was a real injury concern. Someone posted something on here earlier I believe, the foot thing was a kind of misinformation, a faulty diagnosis.

At least, per Heckert.

U know ..this is how I feel..I ,like the pick..I was distracted because my upstairs computer is screwed up ,so I got tied up with that and didn't even see the first tradedown..then didn't see the move up..I feel that Taylor would still have been there @ 27 ,but I don't know for sure ..I don't like giving up hard-earned picks.

I will never complain about Dline/Oline pick. Build from the inside out. Great pick IMO.

I'm on the fence about this pick.

On one hand, he's a run stopper, and everyone knows we need help stopping the run.

On the other hand, we left the first round without getting a playmaker.

I guess with Green and Peterson both off the board, it's not a bad move to trade down that low and end up with Taylor, though.

Time will tell, but I'm neutral right now.

IMO, this was not the draft for play makers....there were a couple and then a lot of talent in the trenches

http://www.draftcountdown.com/ScoutingReports/DT/Phil-Taylor.php

Phil Taylor, Defensive Tackle | Baylor | SR

Strengths:
• Excellent size and bulk with a big frame
• Very strong, powerful and physical
• Nice balance and stays on his feet
• Stout at the point of attack and can anchor
• Able to take on and occupy multiple blockers
• Does a terrific job of stuffing the run
• Good bull rusher and will push the pocket
• Violent hands and uses them well
• Aggressive and plays with an edge
• Offers some schematic versatility

Weaknesses:
• Weight, conditioning and stamina are problematic
• Not very fast, quick, agile or explosive
• Doesn't always play with proper leverage
• Not real mobile and lacks great range
• Is awfully limited as a pass rusher
• Questionable instincts and awareness
• Might have some durability issues
• Character concerns after off-the-field trouble

Notes:
Began college career at Penn State, where he redshirted then started five games over the next two years --- Arrested on assault charges following a fight at a frat party in 2008 and after initially being suspended was dismissed from the Nittany Lion football team and opted to transfer --- Was a two-year starter for the Bears --- Named 2nd Team All-Big 12 in 2010 --- Was hampered by a sprained knee in '07 and missed time with a turf toe in '09 --- Showed lots of potential early in career then struggled as a junior before really coming on as a senior and improving draft stock -- Possesses intriguing size and profiles as a prototypical nose tackle in a even (4-3) or odd (3-4) front.

Quote:

IMO, this was not the draft for play makers....there were a couple and then a lot of talent in the trenches

I agree. I mean, I do like the pick. I guess I'm still just disappointed that Green and/or Peterson didn't fall to us

Quote:

What drafting Taylor means.

First it means we are one step closer to actually stopping everyone from running the ball down our throats over and over and over and over and over again.

Secondly we saved enough money to sign a STUD free agent.

Third, his biggest knock in my eyes is that he doesnt fully understand how to use those long arms and big paws. Ray Rhodes is one of the best teachers in the game and should be a major asset to the young man.

Forth, DT was the strongest position of this draft and we got a good one. In fact I would not be the least bit surprised if we didnt get the second best off the board.

We have to be able to stop the run..I was looking this kid when i first started doing my mocks ,but took him off when all the madness started..it surprised to a bit,but I remember reading some thigns ..plus the Browns had brought him in..no doubt he was high on the list after Dareus..probably the # 2 DT.

Quote:

Yeah, not sure what the upheaval is over this.

Browns run defense ranks:

2010: 27th
2009: 28th
2008: 28th
2007: 27th
2006: 29th

You win on defense by stopping the run. I get that there are some concerns with Taylor but the Browns want to neutralize the point of attack. Taylor and Rueben should do that.

I think there's only one or two players that there'd have been no upheaval over - Peterson or Green.

I personally love the pick. Lets pick up 2 quick DEs (Reed and Chinasa please), an OLB, an offensive lineman and BPAs and try for Holmes or Rice in FA for WR and we've improved our team leaps and bounds this offseason.

Everyone bickers that we should have Ngata on our team.. well now we got a guy very similar to him..

Stop complaining.. the guy will be a huge asset to our new defense. It automatically means that our DE's will be playing one on one against the tackles b/c either Rubin or Taylor will require a Double Team.

No bickering,...it is many (five?) years later. We traded with a division rival to let them get what they wanted and we got nothing while he still plays/contributes,...Hopefully we now have our Ngata.

Quote:

Everyone bickers that we should have Ngata on our team.. well now we got a guy very similar to him.

Not to sound down on Taylor, as I like the pick and see the need for him ...

But he's no Ngata (coming out of college, anyway) Ngata was a physical specimen at the time he was drafted. 350 lbs of muscle who had some speed and quickness. People were thinking he was athletic enough to play as a DE despite his proto-typical NT size.

Plus people bicker because of what we picked instead. We passed on a prototype NT and instead took a tweener DE that we had to pigeon-hole as an OLB.

It's not like we had a need at nose tackle or anything though. We had 97-year-old Ted Washington to play that position! And Babatunde Oshinowo!

....,....that we don't even have anymore.

I think I would compare him to Vince Wilfork before Ngata. I think their measurables, and even combine numbers are nearly identical.

...and Vince Wilfork was the 21st pick.

So I may have posted here last night or not, saying that I hated the pick.

Today, after sleeping it *and...other things* off, It is rapidly growing on me. The thought of jamming up the middle with Rubin and Taylor, guys who both, at times, can take on two guys...wowww.

This will improve our run defense MASSIVELY. And last year, when we stopped the run, we won a lot.

I think one part of Rubin and Taylor;s skill set that is overlooked in the passing game is their ability to take away the pocket. neither are gonna get a lot of sacks but their ability to push that pocket right back into the face of the QB can be monumental.

It leads to interceptions as the QB cant follow through. It leads to big hits as it makes the QB take that extra step backwards beyond his protection. it can also lead to receiver decapitation as the QB will often try to loft the ball into coverage.

Everybody who keeps saying how this pick is great lists the following reasons:

1) He's a monster run stuffer in the middle
2) He's Shaun Rogers-light to pair with Rubin
3) He will command double teams allowing our DE/LB to run free

My simple thought to all of that is, those same exact things were said about Shaun Rogers when we had him. Yes it was in a 34 front but we plopped him right next to Rubin. How "awesome" was our run D then? How many great athletic plays did our DE/OLB make because Rogers and Rubin were eating blockers? If Taylor is Rogers-light and yet we sucked with Rogers...how is Rogers-light automatically awesome? I dunno.

I repeat, I don't hate the pick or the player. I hate that we had the opportunity to get some elite talent here and CHOSE not to. Fourth round picks and later are crap-shoots. You don't count on those picks getting you anything of value. If they do it's just a bonus, so throw those 4th rounders we got from ATL out the window. So again we traded #6 and #70, to get picks #21 and #59 and a 1st next year. THAT is what I don't like. Losing that extra pick at #70 is a killer. We could have gotten 1 elite player (6) and two solid contributors (37/70) or 4 solid contributors (27/37/59/70). Now we're only going to get 3 solid contributors (21/37/59). I hate hate HATED the trade up. You never ever ever trade UP unless it's to get a stud (like ATL did to grab Julio Jones). We traded up to get....Shaun Rogers light? Unimpressed.

The Browns motto is apparently quantity over quality, but that happens when you blow up a team for no good reason and start from square one....again. If Shurmur doesn't make filet mignon out of the dog poo he's been given and figure out a way to win 8 games (I'm predicting 3-4 wins), then he better start looking for a new job. It's the Cleveland way!

rogers didnt play his position. he tried to penetrate (thats what she s.....) and did not eat up blockers. different player.

Quote:

You don't count on those picks getting you anything of value. If they do it's just a bonus, so throw those 4th rounders we got from ATL out the window.

Wait what? Those 4th rounders don't count? We got hosed!

Quote:

My simple thought to all of that is, those same exact things were said about Shaun Rogers when we had him. Yes it was in a 34 front but we plopped him right next to Rubin.

Correct my if I'm wrong here. Last year Rubin started most of the games (or "all" if you want to get technical) and Rogers subbed in for him when he got tired last year. They hardly played together as Colemen, Schaefering, Robinson, and Smith played end.

Wow. Stay away from the knife drawer.

I was not happy with losing the 3rd rounder...but Heckert did well last year...so no reason to be too skeptical this year.

It sounds like they had Taylor rated fairley high. Like TJ Ward...this apparent reach may not be such a reach afterall. Time will tell.

Also, don't overlook the salary cap implication here.

I think we are happy with our WRs and the trade was too good to pass up. The opportunity too great.

Lastly, that "throw away 4th" this year will likely land a serviceable DE.

I think we fleeced Atlanta and paid a little too much to KC.

Quote:

I think we are happy with our WRs

I hope not. Now maybe we saw the value in getting 3 or 4 potential really good players over getting one potentially great player... but I'm still hoping we add a WR somewhere in the next 2 rounds.

Shaun Roger was old, slowed-by-injury, unmotivated, overweight, and rarely saw the field outside of obvious running situations. He never practiced, was uninterested in his future here, and was a borderline malcontent.

This guy is young, motivated, healthy, and his skill set suggests that he will be on the field for both running and passing downs. He also demonstrated throughout college his willingness to hustle down the line to make tackles in pursuit. He will practice and grow with the team, play a high percentage of downs, and make an impact on our defense immediately.

He is not SR-lite. He is a bigger Vince Wilfork, with near exact attributes. He will anchor the line for the next 5 years. He is anything but another SR, and he will prove that over the next few years.

I find it hilarious that to justify his point you have to "throw out" the 4th rounders.

The point is much easier to make when you throw out some of the other side of the argument.

Quote:

Lastly, that "throw away 4th" this year will likely land a serviceable DE.

Having a couple extra 4th round picks are also great if you want to package them to trade back up...

Nope. There are just throw aways.

Quote:

Nope. There are just throw aways.

Tell that to Baltimore.

If everything after the 3rd round is a throw away, lets just make the draft 3 rounds and then let everyone go to free agency

Love this pick, i laughted at Kiper asaying he didnt understand because this guy is a 3-4 nose. Hey Idiot, NT and DT are the same thing, take up 2 blockers so the LB's can do thier job.

In last year's 4th round there were four players taken that made pretty big impacts for their teams.

Mike Williams of the Buccaneers had 964 receiving yards and 11 TD's.

Alterraun Verner started twelve games at corner for the Titans with 3 INT's and 11 pass defenses.

Jacoby Ford made a couple of huge catches for the Raiders last year and had three kick returns for TD's, 2 receiving TD's, and 2 rushing TD's.

And Aaron Hernandez was one of Tom Brady's best weapons last year with almost 600 yards and 6 TD's.

Those are only the guys that I spotted that made a significant impact this year for their teams. I'm sure down the road a bunch more guys will end up starting.

Quote:

Jacoby Ford made a couple of huge catches for the Raiders last year and had three kick returns for TD's, 2 receiving TD's, and 2 rushing TD's

I remembered that somebody was pimping him pretty hard last year.

Couldn't have been you.

Hopefully I'm not doing the same thing with Jacquizz Rodgers next year at this time.

j/c

I'm surprised to see so many calling Taylor a reach. Many mocks had him going at exactly 21 to the Chiefs.

I am a big Taylor fan. I had him around 30 due to the alleged foot issue, but that appears to have been misinformation. I would have had him quite a bit higher if I had known that. He has good quickness and burst for his size, and he is incredibly strong. He's athletic and plays with a good motor. Surprisingly, he actually is well conditioned and doesn't take many plays off at all.

I've seen the Wilfork comparison, but I don't buy it. Wilfork is quicker and a better pass rusher. I'd say that Taylor is more like Kris Jenksins. Regardless, have fun running at him and Rubin.

Now time to change my sig...

Quote:

It sounds like they had Taylor rated fairley high. Like TJ Ward...this apparent reach may not be such a reach afterall. Time will tell.

I don't think it was much of a reach. I know I had Taylor going to KC in that spot, and know that some of the talking heads on TV and radio did as well. Not that me having him there means anything

I also love that building the line is going to make some free agents want to come here ... Ray Lewis played night and day in the seasons before and immediately after the Ravens got Ngata. Now I have no idea if we actually go Martez Wilson or get any MLB ... but we could have some amazing backer play if they have almost 675 of a Rubin/Taylor sandwich in front of them...

I'm surprised to see so many calling Taylor a reach. Many mocks had him going at exactly 21 to the Chiefs.

Thats because it's a Cleveland pick..me,I hesitantly say they probably could have sat @ 27 and still got him even though I hear two teams might have moved on him..but he's was the first rated NT ..and probablt the second biggest DT left in the top 30 after Dareus.
It should tell everyone that Heckert had MD rated # 1 on his board and wanted a run stuffer early.

Quote:

Quote:

It sounds like they had Taylor rated fairley high. Like TJ Ward...this apparent reach may not be such a reach afterall. Time will tell.

I don't think it was much of a reach. I know I had Taylor going to KC in that spot, and know that some of the talking heads on TV and radio did as well. Not that me having him there means anything

I know there is a lot of talk that Phily and the Jets really liked him. I don't think it was a reach at all.

#27 against the run in 2010 (avg of 129.4 yds a game)

2009 we gave up an average of 144.6 yds a game. Couldn't find the rank but I thought we were dead last.

In 2008 we gave up 151.93 yds a game. Again don't know the rank but can't imagine imagine being higher than 31.

We have to fix the run defense.

Ok found it

2009 28th against the run

2008 28th against the run

2007 27th against the run

Do you sense that it was really the middle of the defense that allowed those kinds of numbers, or the perimeter ?

Quote:

Do you sense that it was really the middle of the defense that allowed those kinds of numbers, or the perimeter ?

I'd say both. I saw plenty of runs up the middle as well as out side. Now a lot of it was on the LB's in the 3-4 defense. So switching back to a 4-3 and having Ruben and Taylor in the middle I think is going to help.

BTY since 1999 we have been higher than #27 rushing defense one time, #23 in 2003.

Quote:

Do you sense that it was really the middle of the defense that allowed those kinds of numbers, or the perimeter ?

Early on, when we were healthy, it was the perimeter only.
Once we lost Fujita, it was everywhere.

Rogers was not good at maintaining his gap... SO MANY runs went right by him, it was sick; and it was because he'd be trying to make a play rather than doing his job. He'd overcommit and the RB would just be patient and watch to which side he would go, and the linemen would just help him go that way.

The perimeter was suspect because other than Roth, our OLB's weren't very good at getting out and setting the edge to force things back inside, and once Fujita went down and things got shuffled, the outside was even worse.

Either way, we're in a different defense now, one where more is asked of the DLine than just eat blocks and maintain gap control for the LBers to make plays.
It'll be interesting to see how this pans out, but I do find it odd that we let Rogers walk just as we switch to a D style that should fit him well.

Heck, make him get conditioned better and rotate him at both DT and DE. Him going as hard as he can from the outside would DEFINITELY draw attention.

Quote:

Do you sense that it was really the middle of the defense that allowed those kinds of numbers, or the perimeter ?

Last year, without looking. Id guess most came on the edge. My sense was that we played well up the middle for the most part. Except for the few times a game Rogers would get caught out of position. In prior years I was much more concerned about the interrior.

Let's look at it this way -

Cincinnati Bengals - AJ Green
Baltimore Ravens - Jimmy Smith
Pittsburgh Steelers - Cameron Heyward

Cleveland Browns - Phil Taylor

You tell me how we're doing against the division. The point of the draft is for the weak teams to get better players than the good teams so they can like..you know...get better right?

you forgot about the 2 fourth round picks.

Quote:

you forgot about the 2 fourth round picks.

Quote:

Cincinnati Bengals - AJ Green
Baltimore Ravens - Jimmy Smith
Pittsburgh Steelers - Cameron Heyward

Cleveland Browns - Phil Taylor + #59 + #124 + Falcons 2012 RD1 Pick + Falcons 2012 RD4 Pick

Fixed it.

j/c

I was only able to pay minimal attention the draft last night (cannot stand the new format), but when we traded down I casually remarked to a friend that we'd take 'that nose tackle from Baylor'. Had to skip out and didn't initially see that we'd moved up again, but that we'd snagged him.

Savage was always the type to stay mum on the guys he was going to draft ... Heckert seems to have the opposite, and Mary Kay spent a lot of time talking about Taylor as well.

It seems he tips his hand a bit openly ... not that that's a bad thing at all.

Quote:

Quote:

Cincinnati Bengals - AJ Green
Baltimore Ravens - Jimmy Smith
Pittsburgh Steelers - Cameron Heyward

Cleveland Browns - Phil Taylor + #59 + #124 + Falcons 2012 RD1 Pick + Falcons 2012 RD4 Pick

Fixed it.

Cleveland Browns - Phil Taylor + #59 -#70 + #124 + Falcons 2012 RD1 Pick + Falcons 2012 RD4 Pick

Fixed it for real... I am still a bit irked about the move.

Quote:

Do you sense that it was really the middle of the defense that allowed those kinds of numbers, or the perimeter ?

Let's be honest, it was a lot of things.. the middle of the defense, the perimeter of the defense and it was also that the offense wasn't generally a big threat so other teams just pounded us and didn't worry most years about us scoring points...

Yes, because statistically teams get dynamic players in the 4th round and lower all the time. You're lucky if there are 3-4 starters drafted in the entire 4th round each year. I have 0 faith we'll be one of those 3/4 to get "lucky". If we are then awesome, but you do not COUNT on it.

It's like we suffered through eating beans and rice instead of steak (trading back and getting Taylor instead of staying at #6) so that we could save up some money. Then we're going to sit down at a roulette table with what we saved. Sure you MIGHT win it big...but is that really how you want to spend all of your hard earned money?

I'd much rather have elite talent from the top of the draft coupled with good, solid, projectable starters from the 2nd and 3rd rounds. We lost on the ability to get the elite talent. We took a reach for a need (albeit a good fit for that need) instead. And in return we didn't even gain any of those valuable 2nd/3rd rounders beyond moving up from #70 to #59. So the cherry on the cake is the 1st rounder NEXT year. A good consolation, I'll agree, but it makes this years draft look like crap.

Quote:

Quote:

Lastly, that "throw away 4th" this year will likely land a serviceable DE.

Having a couple extra 4th round picks are also great if you want to package them to trade back up...

Agree, Its what? 9% of 4th or 5th rounders start in the NFL. I hate this draft and am really disapointed in HH and MH. We cut Shuan Rogers and then drafted Shuan Rogers with our 1st & 3rd rounders. We could have a real playmaker for Colt in J Jones and I'll bet we take Bowers in the 2nd if he's still there at 37. The kid is down to bone on bone but the Browns are saying he is fine. Tampa wanted him bad but every time they checked his knee it was still bad. The NFL is shying away from but we will undoubtly draft him and tell us what a steal in the 2nd. .... I see Bowers at 37 and fast WR with good hands that runs excellant routes for the PRACTICE SQUAD.

Quote:

(trading back and getting Taylor instead of staying at #6) so that we could save up some money.

I think it had more to do with Stock Piling picks.

Quote:

And in return we didn't even gain any of those valuable 2nd/3rd rounders beyond moving up from #70 to #59. So the cherry on the cake is the 1st rounder NEXT year. A good consolation, I'll agree, but it makes this years draft look like crap.

Well everything I've seen says the Browns did good. As far as the draft looking like crap, can we at least finish the draft and let these guys play before we pronounce how bad the draft is? And for that matter you never know what will happen this season coming up, that is if we have one. If ATL has some injuries and loses a bunch of games then maybe we are looking a good pick. You never know.

Quote:

We cut Shuan Rogers and then drafted Shuan Rogers with our 1st & 3rd rounders. We could have a real playmaker for Colt in J Jones and I'll bet we take Bowers in the 2nd if he's still there at 37. The kid is down to bone on bone but the Browns are saying he is fine. Tampa wanted him bad but every time they checked his knee it was still bad. The NFL is shying away from but we will undoubtly draft him and tell us what a steal in the 2nd. .... I see Bowers at 37 and fast WR with good hands that runs excellant routes for the PRACTICE SQUAD.

Wow ... every team said that he was fine. The analysts even said when he was falling that the teams in the back end would take him if he got there ... but noone took him. Someone will take a chance.

Concerning Julio? What good would 1 top receiver have done? Was Julio the difference between us going to the superbowl or not? We will be able to draft any wide receiver or playmaker we want next year as well with 2 first rounders, but at least now we can continue building a thing called a defensive line. It doesn't matter how many points we score (or would have with Julio) ... if the other team scores more ... we lose.

And if Taylor is as good as a motivated Rogers, then we have a monster. But the only difference is this monster is about a decade younger and isn't going to retire in a year ...

Quote:

Quote:

.

nce
Well everything I've seen says the Browns did good. As far as the draft looking like crap, can and loses a bunch of games then maybe we are looking a good pick. You never know.

Yeah, and maybe ATL wins the SB and we have what is like a high 2nd.

Quote:

Let's look at it this way -

Cincinnati Bengals - AJ Green
Baltimore Ravens - Jimmy Smith
Pittsburgh Steelers - Cameron Heyward

Cleveland Browns - Phil Taylor

You tell me how we're doing against the division.

Considering two of those teams already had a Taylor, they can take the other players.

I'd say Taylor is more talented than Heyward though. And who the hell is throwing the ball to Green?

Smith to Baltimore though...that sucks...

Quote:

And if Taylor is as good as a motivated Rogers

Nobody is as good as a motivated Shaun Rogers. At least not the version you're thinking of. Not Ngata, not Wilfork. The healthy version of Shaun Rogers from 3-4 years ago (if motivated) would be the best DT in the league.

Quote:

perhaps it is that we could finally answer our RT question? that's what GB did with the 32nd pick in this draft after all.

I'm 100% cool with that.

I've never seen any injured player climb boards faster than Julio Jones....ever! I mean the guy is fast, but wow! Once everyone found out he had ran a sub 4.4 with a fractured foot, forget about his hands and ability to get separation, all of a sudden he's an elite prospect. I'm very glad we passed.

I look at the Falcons like this. They are in a division with the Saints who are fresh off a Superbowl a couple of years ago and got much better in this draft. There is a good chance NO wins the division. They then would be in a fight to make the playoffs as a wild card. I think they would but if they don't go far in the playoffs or by chance not even get in this could be a great trade for us.

Quote:

2003 #3 Andre Johnson (after Carlos Rogers)

When did Charles Rogers take on a new hispanic version of his name?

Anyway, the more I read about the pick (from our own interviews), the more comfortable I am with the pick. People say Taylor was a reach, yet he was the BPA on the Browns draft board at that time.

Sure I read what all the draft sites say about people, but in the end; Heckert makes how many million dollars a year, paid by NFL TEAMS. Most of these draft site guys have never even been scouts.

Shurmur said the coaches were ecstatic to get Phil Taylor. He said he was the BPA on our draft board, and that he was one of their targets and they were nervous someone was going to take him.

So if this is the case, then it's a fine pick. Heckert was smart enough to pick Joe Haden last year, so the guy he's picking this year should be fine too. We could have gotten Costanzo or Carimi, so I'm guessing they have a lot of faith in Phil Taylor.

So now we're in the 2nd round, let's get the next best player for the Browns.

whoops. I was trying to get him more marketing deals in SoCal or TX

Quote:

Let's look at it this way -

Cincinnati Bengals - AJ Green
Baltimore Ravens - Jimmy Smith
Pittsburgh Steelers - Cameron Heyward

Cleveland Browns - Phil Taylor

You tell me how we're doing against the division.

Quote:

Considering two of those teams already had a Taylor, they can take the other players.

So what you're saying is those teams already have good talent, so they can just draft BPA and get even MORE good talent while our talent sucks so we are forced to draft less-talented players because we have more needs? Sound philosophy if that's what our FO is thinking

Quote:

I'd say Taylor is more talented than Heyward though.

I had Heyward at #24 and Taylor at #35 so they are in the ballpark but I'd argue that Heyward is the slightly better player and will be the better pro ESPECIALLY in that Pittsburgh D. Not to mention I had Cam Jordan ranked #13 and he was sitting there ripe for the picking and we passed...by choice.

Quote:

And who the hell is throwing the ball to Green?

Carson Palmer, Ryan Mallett, Colin Kaepernick, Andy Dalton. Pick one. $20 says Cincy goes QB with their first pick tonight. The goal of the draft IMO is to acquire the most talent. You get enough talent, regardless of scheme or fit or need, you'll have a good team (note I said good not great...great comes when you have both talent AND scheme/fit). AJ Green is an elite talent, period. Sure the Bungles might have some QB issues that hold them back from winning a bunch of games next year but their team talent level just went up a ton. Ours went up some, considering we have...well nobody other than Rubin to play DLine, but Taylor is far from an elite talent. I hope (and think) he'll be a solid 3 down run stuffer. It's a good thing to have and why I keep saying I don't hate the selection, but rather I hate what we COULD have had instead.

While we're at it, who the heck is going to throw the ball to any WR on OUR team? Charlie Frye McCoy? I'll believe he's for real when I see it...and I haven't yet.

Once Green and Peterson were off the board I was honestly fine trading back. I wasn't happy that it was SO FAR back. We essentially punted our 1st round. Knowing that, I wanted ATL's 1st, 2nd and 3rd this year and 1st/3rd next year at a minimum. We got their 1st/2nd/4th and 1st/4th so not as much as I wanted but probably the best offer we were going to get. I'm fine with that. What I'm NOT fine with was going with the idea of stock-piling solid 2nd/3rd round picks (no the 4th round picks aren't solid) and then an hour later getting rid of said picks to negate all that advantage you just gained to move UP....for Phil Taylor. Then why move back in the first place if you're just going to trade away your extra picks?

Moving up for a top talent like Cam Jordan? OK. Phil Taylor, not a chance. So big picture we effed this up royally.

Quote:

Shurmur said the coaches were ecstatic to get Phil Taylor. He said he was the BPA on our draft board, and that he was one of their targets and they were nervous someone was going to take him.

Do you honestly think anyone would say anything else? Are they going to say "man we really wanted AJ Green or Patrick Peterson, but once they were gone we were screwed so we traded down out of necessity. Taylor's alright but he's not who we really wanted or envisioned coming out of the first round with."

Of course not! They will spin, spin, spin till the world ends so fans like us will read their comments and say "ohhh ok he's the guy they wanted all along! Well then it makes perfect sense now!".

Yeah right.

Quote:

We cut Shuan Rogers and then drafted Shuan Rogers

Shaun Rogers is 32 years old..... it's hardly like an even swap.

I preferred Cam Jordan as well, but as others have noted, Jordan does not fit our 4-3 scheme as it requires fast DEs. to be fair, until we picked Jordan, we couldn't have been sure which 4-3 scheme we were going for.

Also, I have always been a believer in building a team inside-out. So, if we had Jordan and Taylor at the same rating, then Taylor was the proper pick (being that he is on the inside and we have needs at both spots).

Quote:

So what you're saying is those teams already have good talent, so they can just draft BPA and get even MORE good talent while our talent sucks so we are forced to draft less-talented players because we have more needs? Sound philosophy if that's what our FO is thinking

I'm saying that if those teams didn't have a great NT already, they would have drafted Taylor in a second to stop the run.

2 things.

1. apparently we have been talking with ATL for 2 weeks on this trade (both sides have confirmed that in interviews). so, we likely did think that if Peterson, Dareus and Green were gone that Taylor was the pick.

2. you mentioned that we have more holes, so that means we need to draft lesser players to fill 'needs'. I disagree. I think it means that we can feel free to draft BPA based on our board because the odds are that whatever position that player plays is a need. Whereas many 'better' teams end up reaching because they have a particular need.

Quote:

Quote:

Shurmur said the coaches were ecstatic to get Phil Taylor. He said he was the BPA on our draft board, and that he was one of their targets and they were nervous someone was going to take him.

Do you honestly think anyone would say anything else? Are they going to say "man we really wanted AJ Green or Patrick Peterson, but once they were gone we were screwed so we traded down out of necessity. Taylor's alright but he's not who we really wanted or envisioned coming out of the first round with."

Of course not! They will spin, spin, spin till the world ends so fans like us will read their comments and say "ohhh ok he's the guy they wanted all along! Well then it makes perfect sense now!".

Yeah right.

So they make the trade, take someone they dont like and then spin it to make themselves look good!

Yeah right.

The league HAS to take the franchise away from Al Davis....Belicheck has a built in advantage trading with them every year

Quote:

The league HAS to take the franchise awle by manyay from Al Davis....Belicheck has a built in advantage trading with them every year

Won't happen, heck I don't even see a legitimate reason too do so, it's his team, picks, money, etc... It does take two to pull the trigger and though his methods are odd, Al Davis doesn't need the league to intervene unless they do find out there is some "illegal activity" going on, which I easily assume their are none, because no complaints have been made from anyone other then a few NFL fans so if he makes a bad trade it happens. Does the Atlanta owner need to sell or need the league to intervene with the team as well since they made a move which is considered terrible by many with the trade for our pick? Nah he's fine just like Al Davis. Get a grip my friend reading your posts tonight sounds like the draft is about you being right LOL, it's a guessing game by us common folks.

Not to mention that they had a better record than we did last year.

Nice article by a Seattle blogger about Phil Taylor: LINK

Phil Taylor (DT, Baylor) vs Oklahoma
This is the tape many of you have been waiting for. Thank you once again to the irreplaceable Aaron Aloysius for delivering.

I’ve mocked Phil Taylor to the Seahawks in my last two projections. Let’s look at the footage and see what he offers.

This is tape from Baylor vs Oklahoma and includes every snap directly involving Taylor – positive or negative.

The first thing that really stands out is how well Taylor carries his 337lbs frame. He doesn’t look sloppy at that weight – he’s a pretty compact build. The comparisons to B.J. Raji are legit in that both have unnatural movement for a prospect carrying that size. The key difference between the pair, however, is that Raji is a much more flaccid body type.

That could be crucial if you’re considering endurance as a determining factor on whether this is a logical option for Seattle. A lot of people argue against selecting a prospect in round one who can only play 25-30 downs per game.

You can see Taylor’s mobility clearly in this video. At 0:21 you see a play where the ball is dumped off to the running back in the backfield. Taylor tracks the play and pursues the ball carrier, eventually making the tackle for a loss. There are guys 40-50lbs lighter who don’t move like that who are currently starting in the NFL.

Perhaps the best play in the entire video comes at the 1:32 mark. Landry Jones calls a play action boot leg to the right. Taylor disengages from his block and sprints to the left hand side. Jones can’t see a viable passing option so pumps perhaps with the intention of selling out a scramble. He initially ducks to run, but senses Taylor’s presence and ducks out of bounds for no gain.

Elite mobility for 337lbs.

The next play on the tape shows the main issue I have with Taylor – leverage. When he gets low and uses proper hand technique he’s nearly unblockable. When he goes high he’s easily washed out – and it’s the guard shifting his frame out of the way which leads to the rushing score. It’s a technique problem he really has to work on.

Even so, we see at the 0:55 mark the benefit of having that big force up the middle on run plays. Taylor takes up two blocks (center and right guard) and still manages to wrestle free and tackle the running back for only a short gain. His ability to carry two blockers is again flashed on 1:21 and when stuffing the run on 1:42, 2:47 and 3:20.

This is crucial in Seattle’s current defensive scheme. You want the LEO to find one-on-one battles with the offensive tackle and that means persistent pressure up the middle on passing downs. If one guy is able to take up two blocks, it’s going to create opportunities not just for the LEO but also the three technique.

The play at 2:07 excites me from a Seahawks perspective. Taylor lines up slightly exaggerated to the left and ends up rushing the passer from the outside. He beats his man for speed and forces the QB out of the pocket. The end result is a broken play and Jones throws the ball out of bounds.

Why is that exciting? It’s further evidence that this guy can play the 5-technique (or Red Bryant role). If he can show speed like that off the edge and provide excellent run support, it means he can absolutely play the two most important positions on Seattle’s defensive line (5-tech and nose tackle). At the five he has the size of Bryant but could be an upgrade as a rusher. As a nose tackle he carries blocks and eats up space. Realistically you could start or spell him as a rookie for either of Seattle’s current starters – Bryant or Colin Cole.

The pass rushing skills flashed at 2:27 also make me wonder if the guy can play some snaps at the three-technique. He swats the left guard away with an incredible punch and flies into the backfield. Jones senses the pressure and just gets an incomplete pass away before Taylor makes a crushing tackle.

Both announcers over react by saying it’d be a penalty in the NFL – Jones isn’t driven into the ground. The combination of powerful right hook and explosive speed stand out in a big way.

His penetration skills are further emphasised when he breaks through the LT and LG to block a pass on 3:32.

It’s only one game’s evidence and I would rather do full game research on at least 2-3 times before coming to a respectable conclusion. However, the skills flashed on this tape scream top-20 talent.

Obviously there are some background issues. Taylor was kicked off Penn State’s roster for an ‘off the field’ incident and academic struggles. Will this put off teams? B.J. Raji was similarly held back a year at Boston College for academic reasons and had some other incidents on and off the field - he still went in the top-ten to Green Bay.

Taylor only recorded two sacks in two-years with Baylor. Is this lack of real production a concern? Perhaps – after all Raji had seven sacks in his senior year and nine total in the two seasons before turning pro.

Having said that, I still look at the potential with this prospect and wonder if he’s going to make a big rise up the boards. If the 3-4 teams see him as a defining nose tackle (like Green Bay did with Raji) then he won’t last very long. If teams are not entirely convinced, he will last into the 20′s as Dan Williams did last year (#26, Arizona).

On this evidence there’s no doubt what so ever that Taylor is a first round pick – and he could be a much higher selection than a lot of people are grading at the moment. Time to do more study.

But if he’s available when the Seahawks are on the clock this April he has to be a strong consideration.

If he has plus mobility, then we would have a pair of DT who both have plus mobility. Rubin is excellent in that regard, and chases down everything.

I'm kinda excited to see these guys like up together.

After seeing that youtube video, I'm excited....the guy moves like a DE

what getting a fat poorly conditioned DT with weight issues when the team dumped a pro bowl fat poorly conditioned DT with weight issues seems like spinning your wheels, when a fantastic OT Carimi was available. yeah i want to throw up as well.

Guess you didnt see the part where Heckert said he played 70/80 snaps a game compared to Fairley who they kept at 45? People on here spouting off like they know more than the people who watched HOURS of tape it gets old. Just because you were right on a guy who panned out in 1999 or whatever. SOmetimes people amaze me.

Quote:

Yes, because statistically teams get dynamic players in the 4th round and lower all the time. You're lucky if there are 3-4 starters drafted in the entire 4th round each year. I have 0 faith we'll be one of those 3/4 to get "lucky". If we are then awesome, but you do not COUNT on it.

It's like we suffered through eating beans and rice instead of steak (trading back and getting Taylor instead of staying at #6) so that we could save up some money. Then we're going to sit down at a roulette table with what we saved. Sure you MIGHT win it big...but is that really how you want to spend all of your hard earned money?

I'd much rather have elite talent from the top of the draft coupled with good, solid, projectable starters from the 2nd and 3rd rounds. We lost on the ability to get the elite talent. We took a reach for a need (albeit a good fit for that need) instead. And in return we didn't even gain any of those valuable 2nd/3rd rounders beyond moving up from #70 to #59. So the cherry on the cake is the 1st rounder NEXT year. A good consolation, I'll agree, but it makes this years draft look like crap.

I remember when the Seahawks got a big bag of nothing from the cowboys, lost of middle picks and marginal players for their top pick, and dallas rode Tony Dorsett to the super Bowl. I would have much rather of had carimi. taylor fills a self created hole of dumping Shaun Rogers. We went sideways at best.

Please tell me he is another Ham Sandwich!

Quote:

taylor fills a self created hole of dumping Shaun Rogers. We went sideways at best.

SO what you are saying is that regardless of HOW we got the hole ... it WAS there. In other words ... we could have taken Carimi and potentially had a dominant O-Line ... but we wouldn't have had ***ANYTHING**** outside of Rubin at the D-Tackle spot.

You yourself acknowledged that the hole was there.

I think that Taylor will, at the very least, help plug up the middle against the run. If he helps in that regard, then he's an improvement. I think that he'll be a nice interior partner for Rubin, and should help free up the speedier outside guys.

I really like the DE we took in the 2nd. He's a solid pass rusher with good technique. I think that he'll do well for us.

The WR, TE, and FB .... those are my really, really questionable picks. I would have gone with Cobb over Little. Maybe Cobb doesn't have as much upside, but he sure looks like a natural WCO WR, with a great release, and really good hand to go along with exceptional routes.

The TE .... meh. I'm not terribly impressed. He's another boom or bust kind of player in my eyes. Maybe he'll be great ..... maybe he'll flat out stink. Hard to tell with so little to go on other than measurables.

The FB ..... what a waste of a pick. He could be the best damn FB in the world, and we still could have gotten better value in the 4th. I'm not happy with this pick. The guy is slower than our DE. He runs a 4.81. 335# Phil Taylor runs a 5.20. So .... in a foot race, this guy might outrun a NT. Forgive me if I am not impressed. He did very little in a 4 year college career .. other than playing both ways. You cannot teach speed, and this guy has none. He is almost the opposite of the other guys .... he has terrible measurables, and modest production in college. This is the pick that really confuses me the most out of all of them. This seems like a pick we could have used better. If we wanted a great receiver out of the backfield, with great speed, who has been used as a blocker as well, then we could have looked at Charles Clay. (who went in the 6th round) He had over 2500 receiving yards in college, and is a bigger, stronger, and faster player than Marecic. I just don't get the pick at all. I think it was a wasted pick. Time will tell.

The last 3 picks? Don't know much about them, and if we get anything more than special teams guys from the 5th on we're doing OK. I see why we took the CB .... because he's fast. Pinkston seems like a high effort kinda guy. The S almost seems like a guy we could bulk up and make a LB out of. Maybe add 20# and put him at OLB. He's slow ... but seems like a player. Who knows? We'll see.

First impression is that this draft looks a whole lot riskier than Heckert's first draft. We'll see how it plays out. Hopefully all of these guys play at a high level.

Quote:

what getting a fat poorly conditioned DT with weight issues when the team dumped a pro bowl fat poorly conditioned DT with weight issues seems like spinning your wheels, when a fantastic OT Carimi was available. yeah i want to throw up as well.

First off, I do not post on here often, but I read here every day. So if I get banned so be it. But Akron you absolutly know nothing about football.. You probably did not even play little league. You know as much about football as my kids. Please stop posting on here and let me read from posters that actually know something about football.

Quote:

what getting a fat poorly conditioned DT with weight issues when the team dumped a pro bowl fat poorly conditioned DT with weight issues seems like spinning your wheels, when a fantastic OT Carimi was available. yeah i want to throw up as well.

Akron Joe You must really have stones to be on talking about anything related to player evaluation.You have proven yourself to be so utterly wrong that one would think you would keep your trap closed for a bit or at least see the guy on the field before spouting your nonsense, but no, not you.

Quote:

Quote:

taylor fills a self created hole of dumping Shaun Rogers. We went sideways at best.

SO what you are saying is that regardless of HOW we got the hole ... it WAS there. In other words ... we could have taken Carimi and potentially had a dominant O-Line ... but we wouldn't have had ***ANYTHING**** outside of Rubin at the D-Tackle spot.

You yourself acknowledged that the hole was there.

You only need 1 DT if Eric Mangini is still the HC and we're still running a 34.

Yeah, I went there!

And for the record, as much as I disliked our first round, I really liked the rest of our draft for the most part.

Phil Taylor - starter at DT from day 1. Disappointing knowing we had the #6 pick and had to burn a 3rd to end up with this guy, but I do think he'll be a good player for us at 43DT.

Grade C+

Jabaal Sheard - starter at DE from day 1 opposite Jayme Mitchell. He was the best pass rushing 43 end on the board when we picked and it was a huge need for us. He may not ever be elite but he was on my short list at 37 from the start. Our starting DLine is now set : Mitchell/Rubin/Taylor/Sheard.

Grade : B+

Greg Little - good God do I hate this pick. First the guy is an idiot for accepting $$ from an agent. Second, he has only played the WR position for 2 years. He's a freaking RB/wildcat QB. Third, he has questionable route running skills...aka the 2nd most important thing for an NFL WR right behind hands. Sure he has eye-popping athleticism but that usually gets you drafted for Oakland not real teams. Personally I think Baltimore rat-effed us by taking Torrey Smith one spot ahead of us at 58. I HOPE he was our actual target and then once he was gone we panicked and took Little. But, even if we were hell-bent on a WR here Randall Cobb or Leonard Hankerson were still on the board. Hello?

Grade : D

Jordan Cameron - Well this is a head scratcher but he is very athletic and a good catcher. Good fit for a WCO TE. This pick makes a LOT of sense IF IF IF we're trading/getting rid of one of Watson or Moore. If not, I'm not too sold on taking a 3rd string TE in the 4th round. I'm grading this assuming we're getting rid of one of the other two and he'll be in the TE rotation this year.

Grade : C+

Owen Marecic - probably my favorite pick of our entire draft. No not probably it IS my favorite pick of the draft. He's athletic enough to run the football, but he really excels as a pass-catcher which is the most important skill-set for a WCO FB. Vickers is gone. He was gone the day we hired Shurmur and switched to the WCO. I'm sad to see him go but Marecic will be a S-T-U-D for us at FB, you wait. Not to mention he's plain mean. Marecic and Hillis in the same backfield? Look out. He's an iron-man who played FB AND MLB AND special teams at Stanford. He was a fan favorite and more importantly Harbaugh's favorite player on their team. Not only will he be our starting FB day 1 but he will bring his LB skills to special teams and will be a ST DEMON. Cleveland fans will learn to love Owen Marecic.

Grade : A

Buster Skrine - A fast corner from a small school. Flew under a lot of people's radar. Definitely worth a flyer late in the draft where we got him. Sometimes these under the radar guys turn into gems. Sometimes they don't. Worth the gamble.

Grade : C+

Jason Pinkston - Just terrific fantastic value this late in the draft. I had him at #90 on my board and we got him at #150. I think he's too small to play tackle in the NFL so he kicks inside to guard but you never know. Could be Steiny's future replacement at LG or (more than likely) he's the future starter at RG or maybe even our RT. I was hugely disappointed in Lauvao last year so this is a young guy to develop on the right side of our line IMO.

Grade : B

Eric Hagg - Meh. Another safety from Nebraska. He's more of a hitter than a coverage guy IMO and we already have Ward for that role. I doubt he makes the team but being the 6th from the last pick in the whole draft I'm not too worried about it.

Grade : C

Hahaha. I can't argue with you there, but what I SHOULD ask ... is if Eric Mangini is still running the team ... would we trade down from 5 to 27 and only get an extra 4th round pick plus a 3rd string d-end for depth?

Seriously though. We are where we are, and to complain or be in disagreement is one thing, but to be mad about certain picks simply because they fill holes is starting to get out in left field.

If anyone on here thinks that keeping a monster when motivated shaun rogers (but the guy who played in 15 games and produced 17 tackles, a blocked field goal and 2 sacks ...in 2010 all for the discount rate $6.9 million .... ) then that's their business. BUT, let's say that we DO think we can push for the post season and the playoffs even by next year ... do we really want to try to get there with a 33 year old rogers who has already been banged up?

Makes sense with the youth movement to see him go. And, as long as he is gone, I would rather have an anchor in there with a first (or any early) round pick then go another season where we surrended 5+ yard runs on every play.

j/c

It's funny because they've been having the same arguments that we're having, over on the San Diego radio talk shows. People are upset that they took a non-sexy pick in Corey Liuget.

The one host had a real good point though ... He said something along the lines of:

"Liuget is never going to win any awards, will probably never go to any pro-bowls, and you'll likely not hear his name mentioned more than a couple times a game ... but if the Chargers had a guy like Corey Liuget on their roster for the last 4 years, they probably would of gone to 3 Super Bowls and won at least one of them." His reasoning was ... no matter how good the rest of the Chargers were, they were always getting run on up the middle. It didn't matter if they had Shawne Merriman, Antonio Cromarte or Shaun Phillips behind their line, they still couldn't get the big stops when needed. Add in a guy like Liuget (or Taylor) and suddenly the line is plugged, blockers are occupied, guys like Phillips and Merriman are free to run rampant, teams can't just pound the ball on you and control the clock, and the Chargers likely win some playoff games they should of the last few years.

The jist of his argument was that adding a guy like Liuget or Taylor is going to upgrade one position with a superstar ... it's going to upgrade one position quietly and give the other ten spots a better chance to be superstars.

Quote:

If anyone on here thinks that keeping a monster when motivated shaun rogers (but the guy who played in 15 games and produced 17 tackles, a blocked field goal and 2 sacks ...in 2010 all for the discount rate $6.9 million .... ) then that's their business.

The biggest knock I've heard about Rodgers is that he was undisciplined because he wanted "stats" ... A good DT is sort of like a good guard, in that the less you hear their name the better. DT's are supposed to build a wall at the LOS, which stops runningbacks from waltzing up the middle, lets the DE's collapse the pocket and get sacks, frees up the linebackers to occupy holes instead of having to shake off blockers, and prevents QBs from stepping up in the pocket and seeing instant daylight.

Rogers would try and blow up his man off the line of scrimmage trying to make a play in the backfield, and if the guard would push him far enough out of the way or the running back sidestepped him, there was now a huge gaping hole in the line for the RB to walk through. Sure he would get some sacks and put some pressure on the QB, but that's really suppose to be the DE and blitzing linebackers jobs. If a DT gets a sack, it should be because he stepped up into the pocket and ran into a wall.

Absolutely agree. This past year we moved him to d-end as well. I know 3-4 ends still aren't supposed to do a ton, but he didn't exactly do a lot this past season. I understand that he could have rebounded as well from coming off an injury, but it's hard for 375 pound men to work back from a leg injury especially when they are into their 30's.

I was surprised at the Liuget pick because I had only heard him talked about as a 3T DT and Jordan ws still on the board. If he can hold down the DE spot for them, then it was a good pick.

Quote:

If he has plus mobility, then we would have a pair of DT who both have plus mobility. Rubin is excellent in that regard, and chases down everything.

I'm kinda excited to see these guys like up together.

I am hoping for the next coming of the Walter and Jim Show.

I'm going to go a similar route as joe.

I say similar because I am putting up the disclaimer that I DON'T know all that much about football and subsequently could be totally wrong.

I just spent a good chunk of the day watching highlights of Taylor on youtube, and I'm really not that impressed. The guy was singled up half the time, and really didn't get that much push on most of his plays. More often than not, he would get pushed aside, turned around, etc. (out of position).

Lots of draft "experts", the general consensus on this board, and most draft grader-guys would lead me to believe that I'm wrong, but I'm looking at videos ("highlights" at that) and I just can't see it.

I see what you're saying since I've seen those as well. I do think one thing to consider is how many snaps he spent out on the football field. Also, bluntly, the fact Django and Mourg are both very high on this kid really makes me intrigued by him.

You present a valid argument, even though it doesn't mention any ham sandwiches ...

I guess I would have to ask, how "good" has baylor been recently? I mean, not that a lack of talent is everything, but it's not like he was at Butch Davis' North Carolina where they had 5 to 6 projected NFL players on the front 7.

I obviously didn't see what clips you were looking at, but many that I saw with Taylor showed him being double teamed and then often chipped by a back as well, yet his motor had him at least pushing people back still and driving towards the play. The things that stood out the most were where I would see him make a tackle on the other side of the field even if it was 5 or 10 yards downfield. That's hustle for a big man.

I have seen some plays that kind of remind me of Rubin.

If he can play at that level, we'll have an outstanding interior to our DL ... and a great foundation for our 4-3.

I probably saw the same clips as o-n, because I came away with the same feeling. If he plays up to his scouting reports, then great. If he's just a guy out there, then he counts as a third round bust, because that pick we traded should have otherwise been a starter.

Here's a clip against Oklahoma (who probably has better talent - I think it's safe to say that).

First play ... beats the center while baylor blitzes - still gets in the frame to chase down the running back as it was a flare out to the flats.

Second ... recognizes the screen and shows quickness (relative quickness for 345 pounds) and he makes the tackle across the field.

Third play ... rushes into the hole vacated by the pulling guard, looks like he tries to fight through the center then spins around to try and make the play behind him.

Fourth play ... double teamed, spins out of it and makes the tackle.

Fifth play ... engaged by left guard and pushes the kid back maybe 4 to 5 yards almost to Landry Jones.

Sixth play double teamed on a run up the middle ... gives no ground and splits the double team where he dives into the backfield to try and swipe at the running backs feet.

Seventh play ... double teamed again - spins out of it and chases Landry Jones out of bounds - holds him to about a no gain, but the linebacker comes off murray and at the last second Jones flips it to Murray for a 7 yard gain.

8th play ... run up the middle, hit by the center and right guard on a double team .. still clogs up the hole and I *think* makes the tackle.

9th play ... beats the left guard and makes the tackle for a 2 yard gain? Maybe 1 yd gain.

10th play looks like he gets a hand on jones, Jones stepped up into the pocket and threw it away when nothing was open.

11th play .. gets engaged, sheds the block, reaches across and still makes the tackle.

12th - beats his man one on one ... almost kills jones who just throws it away into the dirt.

It goes on .. I just wanted to get to the one where he knocks Landry on his behind. I wouldn't mind seeing a 345 pound man landing on the likes of Roethlisberger, Flacco, and Dalton? (or whoever) this next year. Preferably with the ball still in hand.

thanks for the vid post. this is the second one i've seen is the mini game format. I love that in both he seems to get better as the game goes on. Or he is wearing his oppenents down. either way looks good.

Thanks for the breakdown...

Also you have to consider what Heckert said when talking about him....he said he was on the field on EVERY snap, 70-80 plays, no way any player at the LOS, esp. a heavy DT can dominate on all of those plays...Auburn rotated and Fairley was reportedly in 20-30 fewer snaps per game...he was fresher. Taylor never will be asked to play that many snaps in the NFL...fewer plays to begin with and more rotation I guess. I'm sure Heckert had Taylor rated over Fairley or at least close enough...I'm very happy with Taylor-Sheard from a value AND player standpoint...good players and great value at premium positions....not sold on Little yet but he def has talent...2nd day was pretty good all around...we have a pretty good shot to come out with 4-5 starter out of this draft and if 2 of those develop into above AVG or better it's a great draft...and we still have ATL's 1st and 4th for 2012

DJ, you might want to sit down if you are standing holding your phone or something.

I completely agree with everything in your last post

The fact that Django likes this guy is not lost on me. Similarly, I'm not calling all the draft gurus stupid because they had this guy rated high, or the Ravens' staff poor evaluators of Dline talent since they were supposedly going to snatch this guy up. Just saying that, in my inexperienced football eyes, I don't see the hype.

The part about him playing tons of snaps is a good point. Anyone is going to tire out. One thing I DO see is that he can move for a big man. When he contained that RB all the way to the sideline was very impressive. When he comes back and makes a tackle on the other side of the field is also very impressive.

Oh well. We'll see. I'm looking forward to see how he does. A DT taken that high should have an immediate impact, right? I guess we'll find out soon.

That's cool. I definitely respect what you have to say. I suppose I try to look for the good things that any pick can ever bring to the table. Yes, some (or actually most) will have some major flaws to their game. That happens for every team and hopefully a good staff can coach that out of them once this becomes their job and they spend 100% of their time on it as compared to the NCAA mandated 20 hours or less per week ...

Overall, he's a big man with some concerns, but if he (and rubin) can anchor the dline, then we will be able to add some flash and more sexy picks of pass rushers and thumpers of linebackers soon. Can't see those type of players light it up without the big boys up front however.

Graff,

Quote:

but I do think he'll be a good player for us at 43DT

I never saw Baylor play did you? I can't assume he will be good. I wanted Hayward but if Taylor is 'good' then we may be OK...

Did anyone see him play?

The film shows a good rush but not dominating and he is alert to the runner and makes tackles. I saw Hayward for 4 years and he is better ...but maybe Taylor had better games.

I watched 4 Baylor games from this past year and every game of Heyward's career. From what I've seen (not too much), I would take Taylor every day of the week. I hate Heyward in a 4-3, especially at defensive tackle.

Teams wanted no part of Taylor. They schemed around him because he was pretty much all Baylor had. I wish there was an actual highlight reel of Taylor so everyone could see how dominate this kid was. He gets his paws on someone he doesnt tackle them, he throws them backwards and uses his 350lb body and all of his power to bury them.

yea.. we got a beast.

Really hope Benard is put at DE too b/c I think he's a pretty good pass rusher.

DE Sheard
DT Rubin
DT Taylor
DE Benard

I likes that.. Sheard and Benard..

Hope Sheard pans out and is a force against the run too..

I really think we are at the point where from now for the forseable future, we continue to invest heavily in both of our lines. We still have the need to spend a day 1 or day 2 pick on an OLineman probably every draft for the next 2 or 3 years at least ... but then any top flight defensive linemen in the future help the picks of Sheard and Taylor look even better.

Can you imagine our line of Sheard, Rubin, Taylor and Bernard with talent like (just hypothetically) Worthy from Michigan State or Coples from North Carolina rotating in? How about someone else like Jared Crick? I don't everyone in this upcoming class yet (thank goodness we still have 11 months before the draft

) but adding in a defensive line stud with a pick as early as our 2nd rounder could pay major dividends ...

We keep all of our players fresh throughout games and throughout the season, plus it's insurance for any major injuries.

It was Andy Reid and Heckert's M.O. to take many offensive and defensive linemen in every draft in Philly.

Well that does make me happy ... We need to finish the Right Tackle slot for the long term... my hope is in 2012 we spend a high pick if it isn't manned down this year.

By the 2013 draft we will need to see if Lauvao or Pinkston has become a starting guard or not, and if not we will need to draft for either a rotating door at right guard OR a 33 year old (in 2013) Steinbach ...

And as terrible as it is, by 2014 Joe Thomas is going to be 30 at the end of the season. He will still have a lot of football left in him (I hope) at that time, but when the O and D lines are just under 50% of the starting 22, we really can't play around with the patchwork games and expect to win. I just think we are so close to having a solid line, that we can't neglect it if we get it up to par.