I used my own power poll opinion to separate same records. Bottom 12 are wildcards and division leaders.
1. 0-5 Colts As of this moment they would takeQB Andrew Luck. If Manning returns they can trade the pick to a number of teams.
2. 0-4 Rams Gruden takes over the struggling rams and Gruden wants a big physical receiver to go with his QB. Rams select 6-4 230lb. Alshon Jeffery
3. 0-4 Dolphins Dolphins new head coach Bill Cowher wants 2 things, great defense and a great run game. Well he gets his run game by selecting Alabama RB Trent Richardson.
4. 1-4 Jaguars Gabbert needs receiving options and Oklahoma St. receiver Justin Blackmon fits the bill.
5. 1-4 Cards This team needs a lot of everything but this line sucks more than the rest of the team. OT Jonathon Martin of Stanford gives this line a huge boost in pass protection as well as run blocking.
6. 1-4 Broncos This secondary doesn't seem to be able to cover anyone unless the front 4 gets pressure in less than 3 seconds. Alabama CB Dre Kirkpatrick could go a long way in helping this defense. He is effective in both press and man coverage.
7. 1-4 Eagles Seahawks get nervous and jump up for Matt Barkley QB USC.
8. 1-4 Vikings No brainer selection here with USC offensive tackle Matt Kalil.
9. 1-4 Panthers The Panthers have one of the most exciting offenses int he league but they also have a defense that is getting owned especially up front. Defensive tackle Alameda Ta'amu of Washington is my favorite tackle in this class and will skyrocket up the boards by season end.
10. 2-3 Chiefs I believe we will see Josh McDaniel taking over in Kansas City. The guy can coach he just has Butch Davis's talent evaluation skills. In KC he has a great personnel man who will give Josh what he wants and that is a big armed QB by the name of Landry Jones of Oklahoma.
11. Browns from 2-3 Falcons Knowing Heckert I could see a trade down here but Morris Claiborne CB LSU is just to good to pass up on but DE Coples will get a lot of consideration as well.
12. 2-3 Seahawks Eagles draft here. The Eagles could go many directions North Carolina outside linebacker Zach Brown would add desperately needed talent to a very weak linebacker corps
13. 2-3 Bears This OL can't handle the defenses of the Lions and Packers without major upgrades. A healthy Carimi will help but another stud is needed and Iowa's Riley Reiff should add a very good bookend to match with Carimi.
14. 2-3 Jets The Jets need a true stud pass rusher and it should come down to UNC DE Coples and Florida State OLB Brandon Jenkins. I believe Jenkins speed and more prototypical 3-4 OLB type body will lead the jets in his direction.
15. 2-2 Cowboys Romo is damaged goods. I just don't believe the trust is there with him and Jerry Jones. Ryan Tannehill QB of Texas A&M imho is going to be the best QB in this class if given a year or two to develop. he may not get that time but he gets a team loaded with talent.
16. 2-2 Browns DE Quinton Coples should not have fallen this far but I just aint seeing the love for defensive ends in this draft. He could slide to the Browns and if he does, he will be the blindside pass rusher the Browns have been looking for since Courtney Brown was lost to injuries.
17. 3-2 Titans With Kenny Britt's issues and injury, Malcomb Floyd WR Notre Dame becomes a very valuable selection at this point.
18. 3-2 Steelers I could easily see Pitt trading up for an offensive tackle but they need guard help as well. Hey they took a 1st round center so why not a guard in Cordy Glenn of Georgia. Big powerhouse blocker fits what they want.
19. 3-2 Bengals Bengals are building a solid young team and I just don't know where Cedric Benson fits in. Lamarr Miller RB Miami is perfect for the Bengals blocking scheme. He is patient but runs with power and has tremendous burst.
20. 3-2 Raiders Raiders love fast kids with attitude and CB Stephon Gilmore of south carolina will fit right in with Raider Nation.
21. 3-2 Giants Brandon Thompson is big old DT from Clemson that can pressure the pocket and if you can pass rush, the Giants can use you.
22. 4-1 Patriots The Pats want to get back tot he 3-4 and they just need linebackers. It starts with Manti Te'o inside backer for Notre Dame.
23. 3-2Bucs Bucs has a swiss cheese secondary. North Alabama has a speedy corner by the name of Janoris Jenkins that will liven up this secondary.
24. 4-1 Lions Lions need offensive line help and never draft it. That continues once again as they target Nebraska corner Alfonzo Dennard.
25. 3-2 Texans DT Josh Champman can play the nose in the 3-4 of the Texans as he plays the nose for Bama. He will add a lot of run stuffing ability to a pretty good pass rushing defense.
26. 4-1 49ers The 49ers and Alex Smith look like the perfect combination. How long until Alex Smith remembers that well he sucks? 49ers take Baylor QB Robert Griffin.
27. 4-1 Chargers Vincent Jackson wont be back and Nick Toon of Wisconsin looks like a pretty good replacment.
28. 3-1 Redskins The skins have to improve this line a good start would be by adding OT Levy Adcock Oklahoma St.
29. 3-1 Ravens With Lewis set to retire, Dontay Hightower of Alabama will be a welcomed addition.
30. Patriots from 4-1 Saints Pats keep rebuilding their 3-4 with Courtenay Upshaw OLB Bama.
31. 4-1 Bills Dontari Poe is 350lbs of Memphis beast. He can take over the nose and allow their rookie Marcell Dareus to become a disruptor from the DE position.
32. 5-0 Packers The Packers do not have a lot of holes to fill but you can never go wrong with immediate corner depth and future starting corner in cornerback Chase Minnifield Virginia.
If the Colts traded the pick or drafted anybody but Luck they would be insane. Even if Manning returns, it would only be for a couple years and he is one hit away from having his career end and he may never be the same... worst case you draft Luck and sit him for a year or two if Manning returns to form, then Luck learns under the most intelligent QB this league may have ever seen and you have your next 15 year starter...
How would the Colts feel to not take Luck and then in week 2 Manning gets crunched from behind and never plays again?
Quote: If the Colts traded the pick or drafted anybody but Luck they would be insane. Even if Manning returns, it would only be for a couple years and he is one hit away from having his career end and he may never be the same... worst case you draft Luck and sit him for a year or two if Manning returns to form, then Luck learns under the most intelligent QB this league may have ever seen and you have your next 15 year starter...
How would the Colts feel to not take Luck and then in week 2 Manning gets crunched from behind and never plays again?
+1
In fact, having Manning play 2-3 years with Luck learning behind the scene's is probably the best scenario for his future NFL success.
The new salary pool for first rounders will actually allow teams to take best player instead of just protecting salary of the team. This kid is a beast and is the best back I have seen since AP.
I don't know if the Browns go D with two first rounders. Your first thought about trading down is probably a good one. One I'd really believe., for what, who knows..
There is always one player's name that gives me trouble. last year it was Jordan cameron and Cameron Jordan. Before that Gaines Adams killed me. I still want to call him Adam Gaines. Guess Michael Floyd and Malcomb Floyd is this year's disaster name.
good job overall on this mock. i like that you didn't stick to the conventions alot of places use (need to have DE, LT, QB dominate top5 picks, etc) and tried to go with who you really felt was BPA.
Quote: The new salary pool for first rounders will actually allow teams to take best player instead of just protecting salary of the team. This kid is a beast and is the best back I have seen since AP.
Richardson has nothin on McFadden coming out of college. Also teams are starting to get decent production from UDFA.
Quote: Vontaze Burfict, I have him mid to late 2nd. He will need a pretty good 40 time to get into the first.
First of all, I'm going to sound like a huge douche in this post because I don't feel like going through the effort to soften my criticisms up. I assume you won't care.
Vontaze will go in the top 15... Maybe higher.
I think you're batass insane having Miami take anything but a quarterback there. Richardson is the best RB prospect since AP, but he is not good enough to be taken over Landry Jones or Matt Barkley.
Matt Kalil is the second best player in the draft and is a ton better than Martin. Kalil is the best OT since Long and Martin is maybe a top ten pick in a weak draft.
I pray the Browns don't take Quinton Coples. I think he's a pure 3-4 defensive end.
I don't think Kirkpatrick is anything more than a mid 1st-rounder.
I don't think there's a prayer Tannehill goes that high. In a draft with three top level quarterback prospects, and another likely first rounder in Griffin, he is lucky to go in the second. I know you're big on him, but most people (including me) aren't. In the end, it's the opinion of those in charge that matters, and they don't like Tannehill in the first.
I think Cordy Glenn is far and away the most overrated player in the draft. I wouldn't touch him before the fifth round.
I liked most of it pretty well, but I will add that your spelling of some prospect names is atrocious.
BTW guys- -The Floyd on the Chargers doesn't have a b at the end. It's just Malcom.
Quote: I know you're big on him, but most people (including me) aren't. In the end, it's the opinion of those in charge that matters, and they don't like Tannehill in the first.
This is classic DT.
The people that matter think Christian Ponder is at best pick 30-45, as well. And Jake Locker will fall to the third.
I'll also throw in that I fully expected a team to be stupid enough to take Ponder in the first round. There were a ton of teams that desperately needed quarterbacks, and teams liked him. I still think he will bust and wasn't worth more than a third round pick, but it was well established that he was liked throughout the league. The same situation happened with Dalton.
I know you're big on him, but most people (including me) aren't. In the end, it's the opinion of those in charge that matters, and they don't like Tannehill in the first.
Obviously you have this great knowledge of what general managers around the league are thinking, so enlighten us with your brilliance. What does Tom Heckert think of Mr. Tannehill? I think your post has the stench of total bull crap.
As for Burfict, he could go top 15. I never thought anyone was dumb enough to draft Wimbley top 15, or Boby carpenter in the first or Curry in top 5 but there are a lot of bad experts out there.
Miami taking QB, I tell ya I like what I saw in Henne. I just really didn't like what I have seen from their run game. Just to many missed holes and wasted opportunities.
No, I don't talk to any NFL GM's. But I have had conversations with scouts and I have talked to many people in the business. Tannehill is considered a project similar to Colin Kaepernick.
I would pick Burfict in the top 15 without hesitation. I see very little not to like. He's an animal. He can play the pass, he can play the run, he's fast and he's intimidating. I'm willing to take the chance on the personal fouls.
I'm going to have to disagree here, although i see good things from ryan tannehill, i just dont see NFL QB in him, but i can tell he's very athletic. My track record isn't so good either, i was a big fan of Matt Leinart.
Luck is solid, his play making ability it uncanny. Now who do i think is the 2nd best qb? Nick Foles please! He's huge! He's got a cannon! and hes pretty accurate shooting at 70% this year.
1. Colts 0-7 QB Andrew Luck, Stanford Nothing has changed here. Manning doesn't look any closer to playing and after seeing the Saint's game, he might hope they they do draft Luck.
2. Dolphins 0-6 QB Landry Jones, Oklahoma Jones may not be the next Marino but he looks the part with a terrific arm and a very quick release.
3. Rams 0-6 OT Jonathan Martin, Stanford Everyone right now seems to be riding the Kalil bandwagon but Martin imho is the best tackle in this draft. Rams need receiver, but they can't keep their former #1 at QB healthy because of their other former #1 pick at tackle that is always injured.
4. Vikings 1-6 OT Matt Kalil, USC Ponder was a major investment, the Vikings might want to protect that investment with a stud tackle.
5. Cardinals 1-5 RB Trent Richardson, Bama There always seems to be some kind of issue with Wells and Kolb needs a strong run game to be successful and it would really help if he actually came within 5 yards of his receivers on his throws.
6. Jags 2-5 WR Justin Blackmon, Oklahoma State Gabbert is in dire need of a true #1receiving option. His other receivers are in dire need of Gabbert throwing an accurate pass.
7. Panthers 2-5 DT Alameda Ta'Amu, Washington This kid is starting to creep into the first round of many mocks, about time. The Panthers are in desperate need a monster run stuffer in the middle to free up their talented ends. Needs to improve his pass rush skills but he can force the double and dominate in the run game.
8. Broncos 2-4 CB Morris Claiborne, LSU Claiborne is now my top rated corner. Looks like everyone going after him last year to avoid Peterson is paying off this year. Kid is a beast in the secondary.
9. Seahawks 2-4 QB Matt Barkley USC Enough wasting time and money on dud castoffs. Seahawks get their man in Barkley.
10. Eagles 2-4 OG David DeCastro, Stanford The guard play for the Eagles reminds me of the 99 Browns, it really is that bad. DeCastro fills the void left by Shawn Andrews. Top 10 guard, I know it will never happen but the Eagles wont be drafting here either but they will probably be drafting a guard in the first. Man was this kid impressive last week.
11. Browns 3-3 QB Ryan Tannehill Texas A&M Colt McCoy has the Browns at 3-3 and he has thrown 8 touchdowns and only 4 interceptions but a completion percentage of 56 when you throw beyond 5 yards twice a game? He still has plenty of time to right the ship and I want Colt to succeed but my confidence in the young man is reaching bottom.
12. Redskins 3-3 CB Dre Kirkpatrick, Alabama One thing about Mike Shannahan, he believes in strong corner play. Dre fits their scheme perfectly.
13. Titans 3-3 WR Alshon Jeffery, South Carolina The Titans simply do not have the offensive firepower to make teams respect the passing game. Pair Jeffery and Britt together and you have the makings of a terrific tandem especially if the Titans can get their run game going.
14. Chiefs 3-3 DE Quinton Coples, North Carolina This kid just seems like a great fit for Romeo's 3-4 scheme.
15. Cowboys 3-3 CB Stephon Gilmore, CB, South Carolina The Cowboys most likely will make a big push to land a quarterback in this draft but for now corner is a huge need and Gilmore's ability to make the open field tackle is enough to make Rob Ryan drool.
16. Ravens 4-3 Inside Backer, Manti Te'o, Notre Dame The most instinctive linebacker in this draft with better than advertised cover skills, he will have tough shoes to fill in Baltimore.
17. Jets 4-3 OLB Courtney Upshaw, Alabama Upshaw will give the Jets that outside linebacker that can rush the passer.
18. Bears 4-3 OT Riley Reiff, Iowa Bears may break the land speed record turning in their card, if Reiff is still there when they draft.
19. Bucs 4-3 CB Janoris Jenkins, North Alabama Bucs coaches are familiar with Jenkins and are unlikely to let him slip past them.
20. Bengals from Raiders 4-3 CB Alfonzo Dennard, Nebraska When healthy he is an elite corner that can shut down his side of the field.
21. Bengals 4-2 OT WR Michael Floyd, Notre Dame Floyd and Green. Crap
22. Browns from Falcons 4-3 OLB Zach Brown North Carolina He is a top 10 prospect talent wise but his size likely makes him slide.
23. Bills 4-2 DT Dontari Poe Memphis Bills have to get the beast in the middle to allow Dareus to truly emerge.
24. Lions 5-2 CB Chase Minnifield Virginia Lions need help at offensive tackle but the lions have avoided reaching and stuck to best player available, they do so again.
25. Houston 4-3 DT Brandon Thompson, Clemson Thompson lacks the ideal height to play in the 3-4 but if you can play they will find a spot for you and Thompson is fierce.
26. Giants 4-2 CB Jayron Hosley, Virginia Tech He is a flat out pure cover corner with Deon speed. He also has Deon's size, well when Deon was 15.
27. Chargers 4-2 WR Jeff Fuller, Texas A&M With Nick Toon injured again, Fuller moves up the boards.
28. Patriots from Saints 5-2 LB Dont'a Hightower, Alabama Can play inside or out and is becoming a pretty good pass rusher. The Pats are looking to reload their linebacking corps and Hightower is a fantastic prospect.
29. Steelers 5-2 OT Mike Adams Ohio St. They love Ohio State prospects in Pittsburgh.
30. 49ers 5-1 C Peter Konz, Wisconsin the 9ers are slowly putting together a pretty good line but they could use an upgrade in the middle.
31. Patriots 5-1 Tweener DE Alex Okafor Texas Alex has a strong motor and is always around the ball. His lanky frame and flexibility should be enough to get him in the role as an OLB in the 3-4.
32. Packers 7-0 DE Jared Crick Nebraska Crick will give the Packers defensive front some added flexibility and quickness.
11. Browns 3-3 QB Ryan Tannehill Texas A&M Colt McCoy has the Browns at 3-3 and he has thrown 8 touchdowns and only 4 interceptions but a completion percentage of 56 when you throw beyond 5 yards twice a game? He still has plenty of time to right the ship and I want Colt to succeed but my confidence in the young man is reaching bottom.
Just my opinon, We have so many other holes to fill and if we take a QB at 11 and Tannehill besides, than we deserve to sqander with losing records for years to come, We need to take a LB, another corner or a RT or a WR before we even consider a QB.
I stopped reading after seeing this, but again just my opinon. dosent mean anything.
There isn't a LB, RT or WR in all of history that you could add to the Browns that would have as immediate an impact on the Browns winning football games as getting good production from the QB position. Now we can all debate whether Colt is eventually going to be that guy or if we are going to have to go get that guy... and I agree with you that we have other holes to fill as well, but none as important as QB.. I'm not saying Tannehill is THE GUY, don't know enough about him to tell, draft reports look good but he has very little experience at the NCAA level so far...
I also like using the Falcons pick on OLB Zach Brown, because even if he never becomes a great LB, he can still sing and entertain the lockerroom.
Quote: I also like using the Falcons pick on OLB Zach Brown, because even if he never becomes a great LB, he can still sing and entertain the lockerroom.
Plus, he's already rich, so he'd likely sign a team friendly contract.
Quote: 19. Bucs 4-3 CB Janoris Jenkins, North Alabama Bucs coaches are familiar with Jenkins and are unlikely to let him slip past them.
dislike dislike dislike, the kid is sooooooo overrated its unreal just cause he came from Florida, the kid sucks, im glad hes owning in D2, but hes got lots of character problems
Quote: 11. Browns 3-3 QB Ryan Tannehill Texas A&M Colt McCoy has the Browns at 3-3 and he has thrown 8 touchdowns and only 4 interceptions but a completion percentage of 56 when you throw beyond 5 yards twice a game? He still has plenty of time to right the ship and I want Colt to succeed but my confidence in the young man is reaching bottom.
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
If we can't go up for a Barkley or even Jones then I'd just assume rather suffer through another year of McCoy...Don't stretch for a QB just because we may need one...I hate that...It's exactly what Minny did with Ponder and Tenn with Locker...Hell even Jax did it with Gabbert...
I would be jumping all over if we could somehow land Claiborne at Corner and Burfict...Solidify one side of the ball and get another End...I would then back that up with a DAY ONE starting RT in Round 2...IF value is there...Or get that DE...Even a FS could be in play in 2...
DO NOT REACH FOR A QB.....
I don't buy this Holmgren brilliance in developing QB's...He's not even a HC anymore...
Right now Tannehill is my 3rd ranked QB and rising. He is a tad raw but he is well coached and he has everything you want in a QB.
Barkley is the best college QB in this draft but he is limited physically. If he had a stronger arm and was a couple inches taller, he would be ahead of Luck, but he doesn't and has fallen to 4th for me. I still think he is a strong top 10 talent.
Jones scares me the most but damn that boy has an arm and he has about as quick of a release as I have seen in a very long time. I have him 2nd because I love the physical skill set but man I keep getting that gut feeling with him, and it isn't a good feeling. He just seems destined for Miami.
I think the big 4 are likely to all go in the top 10.
I still have Griffin ahead of Weeden as well. they are early 2nd late first talent. frankly they are more talented than several of last years first rounders.
But I've seen things written that say that Luck and Barkley don't have the strongest arms.
So what makes them different from the McCoy argument that McCoy doesn't have a strong arm?
Is it that their arms are stronger than McCoy's, but not as strong as say Landry's? Are they strong enough to make all the throws?
I guess I'm just confused when people say that Luck (and some say Barkley, too) is the most surefire guaranteed stud, but that he doesn't have a strong arm.
I'm no guru, either. But, the reason I prefer Barkley over Luck (Yeah, I said it), is Luck's constantly throws to receivers that are wide open, and he only reads half the field a lot.
Barkley on the other hand, is already reading the entire field, looking off DB's, and making NFL throws (Throwing unopen receivers open).
I'm sure Deep will be along to tell me what I'm wrong about here, but that's what I see...
Barkley does nothing that makes me think "wow, this guy is a franchise QB." He plays like your average USC QB. He will be just as average in the NFL. He has the tendency to throw some passes that make me think WTF and not in a good way.
First and foremost, Luck and Barkley have much stronger arms than Colt. I'd say Luck's arm is average for an NFL starter, and Barkley's is slightly above average.
I definitely have Barkley has my #2 QB and to be honest, I don't get the criticisms. For one, he is incredibly smart. He is also one of the most accurate passers to enter the draft in recent years. He doesn't have a Matthew Stafford type arm, but it is not nearly as bad as some people are making it sound.
I think Barkley can be a Drew Brees type player, and while I don't have a good comparison for Luck, I think the latter can be slightly better.
Ya if we were in a position where luck wasnt reachable (I even think 3 firsts is too low of a price to be honest, so we probably wont be able to snag him), I think Barkley has the tools. I want Colt to pan out so we can hit on a WR or something but if we're in position to grab Barkley it probably means Colt didn't pan out :P
honestly, I don't think we end up in position to draft Luck, Barkely or Landry. I think Miami, Indy and Seattle all end up with worse records and I think all 3 draft a QB.
yes, I think Indy is drafting a QB even if they miss out on Luck. they know how they have built their team and they know they won't have the opportunity to draft this high if Peyton stays healthy for a couple of seasons.
Again, I trust your gut feeling with Tannehill but he's too raw to go in the 1st normally, but stranger things have happened....haven't seen enough of him, will try to catch some Aggies games. What scares me most is his 7/9 TD/INT ratio against ranked teams...if he can't solve decent to good CFB teams he's not ready for the big show...1.5years QBing in College also is simply not enough experience, he's too raw and too much of a gamble at this point
L.Jones is this year's version of A.Smith, Rodgers, Gabbert = a shoutgun QB...he has the best arm but he's so raw with the rest, he needs a complete overhaul and you never know how he's going to come out of it or if he can adjust
Barkley is as day 1 ready as Luck but I simply don't see much upside and playmaking skills...he looks like a pro style version of McCoy with better arm and better mental skills (reading Ds, progressions etc)...so he IS Colt's ceiling which would be an upgrade obviously....the question is: how much upside is left in there? I'm warming up to him but he just does not have that Top QB feeling to him, more like "what you see is what you get"
Someone mentioned Foles and he's a sleeper guy to look for...and I obviously am the only Weeden fan around. Scouts love him and on tape he's really up there with the rest...if we can't get 1 of the higher rated ones I'd rather gamble a 2nd/3rd on Weeden/Foles than reach Ponder style
I guess this is the defacto 2012 draft thread... almost seems like we should have a draft section of the forum year-round.
Anyway, I'm not an expert by any means, but a few weeks ago I officially (in my mind) gave up on Colt and got interested in the QBs coming out.
What's everyone's opinions on Robert Griffin QB Baylor? Upon first glace, he looks to have a lot going for him. A high TD-INT ratio (22-2) and completion % (78%) would indicate that he's pretty accurate with the football and doesn't make a lot of bad decisions. At 6-2, 220 he has good size and is being touted as a dual-threat as he can run the ball as well. Apparently, he quite smart off the field as well.
Obviously, I don't see him going in the top 10, but I definitely think we'll have an opportunity to get him if Heckert and the rest of the staff grade him high.
before this season, I would have laughed about drafting Griffin. he was the prototypical college running QB.
but, this season, he has been more of a QB who can run. he is always looking to pass, gets his passes to the right spot and can move around to buy time (find passing lanes). and, he has yet to have a bad game. then again, he's yet to play a tough defense. the Oklahoma game could be the bell-weather game for his draft stock.
You were too busy in all of the Colt bashing threads?
Ah cmon that was too easy but a good one
Just avoided the tailgate section since I've realized it's not satire what you guys write in political threads, you guys mean it...oh well, it's a football board I guess, what did I expect...I'll keep it football on here, there are other places to have intellectual discussions at eye level
Griffin reminds me of Jeff Garcia except Griffin doesn't make my skin crawl. On the short side very good mobilityboth inside and outside the pocket but has to work to find throwing lanes. Garcia has a better arm but Griffin has better legs.
Quote: Missouri and A&M play saturday at noon on FX. USC and Stanford at 8. So get a pretty good look at the QBs tommorow.
Foles looks just like DA imho.
Weeden combination of age and system really kills his stock. 29 year old rookie QB reminds me of the movie unnecessary roughness.
I know, but it's Saturday evening/night over here so I often see only some noon games and some of the late ones...A&M playing at noon gives me a chance to see Tannehill and I'll try to see some of Stanford/USC for sure....Griffin vs Weeden at 3:30 is another nice matchup with a couple of high profile WR prospects as well in Blackmon and Wright
Haven't seen much of Foles, just looking at stats and measurements he looks like 1 to watch though....Weeden being a 29yo rookie really doesn't disturb me, every rookie contract is for 4-5 years and he'll be able to play in that time...nobody knows what happens beyond that anyway
Griffin is a special player but not sure about his draft stock right now and how to evaluate him for the NFL....great College player for sure though
Quote: Jacory Harris hasn't been to bad this year. He'd be an interesting project but he is very inconsistent.
Harris looked like the real deal in 2009 when he was a sophomore, then he took a big giant step backwards in 2010 and looked awful.. he has looked ok this year but the team isn't very good.. he is a MAJOR project and if there is one thing we don't need, especially at QB, it's project.
Plus there was that instance after his freshman year (before he had done ANYTHING of note) where, IIRC, he promised to show up to collect his future Heisman wearing a pink tie and carrying a "pimp glass" or something like that.
I would have rather had Pryor than Harris... and I didn't want Pryor at all... I see them as very similar.
This QB class in my opinion will go down as one of the very very rare, elite classes.
I am usually the guy taking pot shots at the QBs like Vince Young and Matt Leinart and lets face it there really havent been a lot of talent coming out over the last decade. They just keep stacking everything against the defense so your crappy QBs can look average and your good QBs are unstoppable.
Even last years class, that so far has looked pretty good, was a class of potential starters not a class of potential stars. Cam just lucked into having Chud coach him.
What do you think? I don't have us drafting a QB because Luck is the only one I want badly and think will be a stud. I like Landry Jones but he has some concerns
I want to see more of Gocong, DQ and Kaluka together. Also Broyles would be a monster in the slot. I feel like teams will need 3 WRs. I would love a group of Blackmon, Little, Broyles, Momass, Cribbs and Robiskie.
I just believe that we really need to fix the offense. WR, QB and OT are the biggest needs. Other than Matt Barkley, Landry Jones is the only other guy I would consider. With those first 3 picks, we could turn weaknesses into strengths. A guy like MoMass would be awesome as a #4 guy. Broyles would beast as a #3 and Little would be awesome as a #2. Reiff gives us two bookend tackles. Believe me I hate the idea of drafting RT high in the draft.
Broyles dropsies worry me. I dont have a problem with RT or even guard in the first if they are clearly the best player available at that point in the draft. Those types are very rare in my opinion, we have one of those guards this year.
Quote: Broyles dropsies worry me. I dont have a problem with RT or even guard in the first if they are clearly the best player available at that point in the draft. Those types are very rare in my opinion, we have one of those guards this year.
He was throwing an ugly ball last night from what I got to watch, the ball didn't have much rotation on it.
I beg to differ on this statement ... He threw some on a rope last night and his delivery was quick and compact. His foot work was also very good and that translates to a well thrown ball. He also had many dropped balls that very much should have been caught.
He doesn't have the extra dimension of his legs that Luck has, but his arm is right on par with Lucks.
Quote: [ I beg to differ on this statement ... He threw some on a rope last night and his delivery was quick and compact. His foot work was also very good and that translates to a well thrown ball. He also had many dropped balls that very much should have been caught.
He doesn't have the extra dimension of his legs that Luck has, but his arm is right on par with Lucks.
It's ur right to disagree and I didn't get to watch much of the game because my Buckeyes were playing but from what I did see, he was throwing a very wobbly ball.
seriously though, he's been up and down so much that he might be the heir apparent to Tony Romo. that's been better than what we have had, but it sure would bge frustrating as well
A&M should have won the game but that loss had absolutely nothing to do with Tannehill. He played a great game. Almost every single throw he made against Missouri hit the receivers hands. I doubt he threw 5 passes all game long that weren't catchable, one being the tipped ball to end the game and another being the pick when his arm was hit.
I want Jones since the Browns have no chance at Luck. I view Barley as a McCoy with slightly better tools. Jones has a cannon with a quick release and has really improved his accuracy.
I want Eddie Royal so he can be a slot guys for us.
1a Landry Jones, QB, Oklahoma - 6'4 230 with a laser arm. Has decent mobility and good accuracy.
1b Michael Floyd, WR, Notre Dame - Reminds me of a bigger Santonio Holmes. He has great hands. He can find open spots in zones. He doesn't shy from contact. He does well after the catch.
2 Mike Adams, OT, Ohio State - Massive frame. Has light feet. As a pass blocker he can move well for his size. He can create movement in the run game and match up with his power.
3 Donnie Fletcher, CB, Boston College. - Solid size, can play physical man to man. Would be a very solid #2 CB.
4a Jay Howard, DT, Florida - Has very good size and can move well. Excellent against the run. Provides depth for our two big men in the middle.
4b Mitchell Schwartz, OG, California - Provides depth at OT or OG.
5 T.J. Barnes, NT, Georgia Tech - A massive human being at 6’7” 333lbs. He is still quick enough to shed blockers. An interesting project.
6 Troy Woolfolk, CB, Michigan - Depth that has played in an NFL defense.
I love the skill Michael Floyd has. I am still concerned about the injuries though. He always seemed to get injured and miss a few games.
if those injuries make him slip (like Eric Decker last year), then I'd jump at drafting him. but, picking him in the 1st round with his history seems risky to me.
Every week I want chase minnifield more and more. Big strong kid, tackles great in the open field, big time hitter, athletic, makes plays on the ball, and we could finally correct not drafting the matthews brothers.
A strong, well put together quarterback with a live arm and the ability to make all the throws with ease. Is a former second round pick of the Yankees in 2002, but his baseball career ended in 2005 due to an arm injury. Enrolled at Oklahoma State in 2007 and took over as the starter in 2010. Plays in a spread and takes nearly all of his snaps from the gun. Displays sneaky athleticism for his size and exhibits a natural feel inside the pocket. Keeps his eyes down the field when he feels an outside rush, can maintain balance when stepping up and throw absolute darts all over the field. However, gets too upright at times in his drop, causing him to struggle to quickly re-set his feet and really stride toward his target. Will fall off his fair share of throws when he feels pressure inside causing his accuracy and decision making to struggle because of it. When he does have more time does a much better job bending at the knees and really transferring his weight well, generating good torque from his lower half. Can really spin the football on all levels of the field and exhibits good accuracy and ball placement both in the intermediate and vertical passing game. Anticipates routes well down the field, snaps his head around quickly when working off play action from the gun and can fit the ball in tight areas on time with receivers. Also, displays "plus" touch vertically down the field, routinely drops the football into the outstretched arms of his target and looks comfortable using the same throwing motion.
Will drop his arm angle down a bit underneath in the short passing game where he gets lazy with his plant foot and his ball placement will struggle because of it. Is a smart kid who does a nice job recognizing defenses with his pre snap read and as the year went on did a better job looking off safeties and working through his progressions across the field. Gets a bit unbalanced with his footwork when working his way across the field because he gets upright at times, but should improve with more experience. Will throw blind when going back across the field and get himself into some trouble with interceptions because of it. Is a good enough athlete to throw on the move, isn't going to be dynamic by any sense in the open field, but can create time for himself when flushed from the pocket and scamper for additional yards.
An older prospect who will turn 28 years old in October.
Impression: His age will likely keep him from going as early in the draft as his talents deserve. But there isn't a throw this guy can't make and he has the skill set and mental make-up to mature into a potential starter with some time.
at the end...scouts and GMs decide...and they LOVE and value good tape...and on tape Weeden is the 2nd best QB in this class (oh look, Luck and Weeden are undefeated too)...if I can't get Luck, I take Weeden...if that's mid/late round 1 with the ATL pick or in the 2nd I don't care...but Weeden won't fall into the 3rd
remember Danny Watkins? He's a G, he'll turn 27yo in a couple of days...and he was drafted in the 1st by the Eagles...a GUARD !! now imagine an overaged QB with good tape and the fact that 10 or so teams are in a QB hunt come draft day...
at this time last season nobody saw Ponder as a top 15 pick...and Kaepernick and Dalton were mid to late rounders
Weeden is a top50 pick (and if 1 of RG3, L.Jones, Tannehill return for their SR season a 1st round lock) and if you really want him you have to take him no later than late 1st
I don't know what it is, but I just don't like Wheedon as an NFL prospect. I've watched probably 3 or 4 OkSt games this year. He's really good don't get me wrong, but I just hope we don't take a shot on him.
I love Weeden's arm but his age combined with the system, makes him a pretty big risk. 29 year old rookie that has never played in a pro scheme. Teams will also be asking him, why baseball over football, don't you love the game? He is gonna get his game picked to death over the coming months.
At the end of the day someone is going to take a shot on him because of that terrific arm. That will likely come in the 2nd round.
Hell I know...I mocked him for the Browns in round 2 and I couldn't believe how bad he played when I saw him...pretty strange as he was considered by pretty much anyone as "sure" a spec there was in that draft...gotta be nerves or mental stuff because dude can play
I don't think age has anything to do with his failing so far....correlation doesn't imply causation
As for Weeden: Many scouts say "if he was 23/34, he'd be top 10 guy", Bunting even said he'd rank him higher than Jones...and I think that's stupid...if he has top10 tape, he's a top10 prospect..end of story...rookie contracts go 4-5 years...he'll be 28 to 32 throughout his 1st contract....so much happens in the meantime you never know IF you want to keep him etc...if you do, at 32 and at QB there are still 3-4 good years left...if not, if he fails or whatever....wouldn't it be better to have failed on a late 1st than high 1st (maybe even more to trade up for a Jones or Barkley) when their game is considered equal? Only because they're 5years younger?
Everyone talks about BPA....Best PLAYER Available, NOT youngest projectable player...there isn't even the upside excuse as Weeden's upside is as high as any QB in the draft
However, age does have to be a factor for those teams who have an established, or potentially established QB already.
If the Patriots, for example, feel that Brady is going to be able to play for another 5 years, they probably aren't going to invest a high pick on a guy who probably won't see the field until he is 33. Same thing for a team like the Rams. They probably aren't going to give up on Bradford for 3-4 years ...... and a guy like Weeden would be 32-32 then.
Age will play a factor in those types of cases, and will, potentially, push a guy like Weeden further down the draft board, as there are fewer teams he would fit with.
Mourg, I'm coming around a bit on your boy Tannehill..saw him play last week against Mizzou and he looked good...you're right, he'd be a good fit and has a lot of upside left, probably the most among the top QBs (to be fair he's more raw than the other 1st rounders too, so there's that)..I'd be ok with him with the ATL pick...but he needs to sit his rookie year....that means we need to sign a vet FA QB and trade Colt for whatever we can get
What do you guys think we'd get for Colt this offseason?
That's a good point and absolutely valid...I just thought of his value for a team like us....you're right, probably less teams will rate him according to his tape but that's actually a chance for teams like us to get a pretty good talent on the cheap...
but ultimatively since we're talking QB....all it takes is 1 team to really like him and I think that he'll be "plan B" for several teams in the hunt for a QB come April
I think that the Browns would take a guy like him ..... if they saw him as a potential starter a year or so down the road, and if they thought that McCoy was probably not going to be the answer. I just don't see us taking him in the 1st. I truly believe that the "backup age" factor will push him down the draft charts quite a way, and with 3-4 other potential 1st round QBs in this draft, (and teams with holes filling them) I can see him winding up 2-û. (or maybe even lower)
I just wish we could get Luck and be done with it ..... but that's a pipe dream at this point.
Watching A&M it is alarming at the difference QB play makes in the exact same system compared to the Browns. That little drag route that we run constantly with the TE or RB results in huge gains for A&M when they are often more covered than our guys. The difference is the ball gets there before the defense can converge and the A&M receiving options aren't breaking stride.
Colt throws that pass, it is most often slightly behind the target.
Hell those 12yard curl routes, we can't run because the ball takes so long to get there. As much as Tannehill has convinced me of his talent, he has convinced me Colt's shortcomings are killing us.
Man, I love the way he puts the ball right on the receivers as they break.
He got that one unblocked blitz, (right around 2:20 or so) and the ball was out immediately. It was incomplete, but he recognized what was happening, and delivered the ball before the free blitzer could get to him. The ball went off his receiver's hand, but it was right there.
Then, of course, the very next play he gets strip sacked.
Man he does a nice job on those slants though. That ball is out immediately.
That play at 8:50 or so is a thing of beauty ..... under heavy pressure and he throws a beautiful fade for the TD. Nice pass.
He makes a few mistakes, but overall I see some nice things there.
I agree, what a quick release. I loved that roll out to the left....he still got the ball off accurately with mustard on it. He made some bone headed decisions, but LSU's about as close to an NFL defense as there is in college. That was a good video for evaluation. It wasn't just bloated highlights.
His arm is right behind Jones and Weeden and they have two of the best arms you will ever see. Jones and Weeden are in the Marino, Derek Anderson, Bret Farve type arm strenght.
Now if you consider a 25-30 yard rope a deep ball then he can throw that and throws it well. He isn't asked to make that throw very often however.
Now if you want a 45+ bomb down the sideline, dropping into the hands of the receiver, Luck is probably the only guy in the draft that drops it in better than Tannehill.
Tannehill's throws are mostly of the 15 yards or less variety as he is running the same offense we are currently running. He just has the arms to make some of the throws our current QB has trouble making.
Again, to say he doesn't throw the deep ball well is a falsehood.
A&M and Oklahoma play 3:30 est on either ABC or espn 2. Not sure what is up with that. Anyway, will be a terrific game to compare Jones and Tannehill. I want to see more of these guys, well of Barkley, Jones and Tannehill anyway lol.
Quote: A&M and Oklahoma play 3:30 est on either ABC or espn 2. Not sure what is up with that. Anyway, will be a terrific game to compare Jones and Tannehill. I want to see more of these guys, well of Barkley, Jones and Tannehill anyway lol.
since I have been the anti-Tannehill guy on here, I've got to bump this. sorry mourg.
game was pretty obvious that landry is leaps and bounds better. part of it is that he has better weapons and a better OL (and playing a worse DL), but his 20-30yd passes were on a line. Tannehill's were lobs (even the TD pass was a lob - not nearly as bad as Pryor-jobs, but especially next to Landry's passes they did not look NFL-caliber)
I wasn't impressed with either of them in that game, but there were 30 mph winds. That could factor into it. And, I'm not going to judge them on one game.
I know Landry Jones has a cannon. You see some of his highlights from other games, and it's ridiculous. I just haven't seen enough of Tannehill to really form an opinion.
I'm firmly in the Justin Blackmon camp right now. That guy is a downright stud.
Quote: game was pretty obvious that landry is leaps and bounds better. part of it is that he has better weapons and a better OL (and playing a worse DL), but his 20-30yd passes were on a line. Tannehill's were lobs (even the TD pass was a lob - not nearly as bad as Pryor-jobs, but especially next to Landry's passes they did not look NFL-caliber)
I agree with this.
Weeden made a lot of bad throws on Saturday, too.
Barkley doesn't have the gun that Jones has, but he showed some really nice touch on some deep balls.
i watched some of the USC v. Colorado game. thought Barkely had a non-descript game because his WRs were so open on those deep plays.
he had a much better game to judge on last week vs. Stanford where he was getting the ball into tight windows (he does not have the gun as you mentioned, but getting into those windows was impressive - especially on fade routes)
Quote: game was pretty obvious that landry is leaps and bounds better. part of it is that he has better weapons and a better OL (and playing a worse DL), but his 20-30yd passes were on a line. Tannehill's were lobs (even the TD pass was a lob - not nearly as bad as Pryor-jobs, but especially next to Landry's passes they did not look NFL-caliber)
I agree with this.
Weeden made a lot of bad throws on Saturday, too.
Barkley doesn't have the gun that Jones has, but he showed some really nice touch on some deep balls.
Weeden's 2 INTs were pretty bad but the guy was 36of46 for 502yds against a ranked team and they put up 52p...."a lot of bad throws" is a little exagerated imho
Landry DOES have a great arm but the last scouting vid I saw of him showed a really RAW shotgun passer who locks onto his 1st option and needs complete overhaul of his mechanics...you absolutely can't put him on the field anytime in his rookie season...he needs to sit 1 full season minimum
Barkley is more day 1 ready but has less ceiling...the question here is how much he can improve
Quote: Landry DOES have a great arm but the last scouting vid I saw of him showed a really RAW shotgun passer who locks onto his 1st option
I agree with this part, I can't comment on mechanics but he pretty frequently was able to go to his first option. He manages to pile up a lot of stats, throw the ball with a lot of velocity, yet somehow look not that impressive (see also: v. Texas this year)
You're right, "a lot" (regarding Weeden) is a mischaracterization. He threw several bad passes, not just the picks. It was my first time watching him and I was hoping to see him play well. He did make a handful of really good throws, but too many iffy ones for me.
Tannehill just looks like a bigger McCoy to me. Dumps, screens, passes over the middle, stop/hook routes... not much downfield or in-stride passes. Maybe it's just the offense they run but there was nothing that said he was a good prospect. Also, I haven't seen him really shoot the ball into a tight window like Jones was able to.
I can see where you're coming from with Barkley in that he also doesn't have a real strong arm. I used to think that was overrated, which made me not impressed with guys like Rodgers, Cutler, Newton, and Stafford and overrate guys like Bradford, McCoy, Quinn, and Leinart.
Quote: Weeden's 2 INTs were pretty bad but the guy was 36of46 for 502yds against a ranked team and they put up 52p...
Who cares...U don't bring a QB that is that damn old into ANY franchise other than as a Back-Up...Get off the Weeden BS...
Quote: Landry DOES have a great arm but the last scouting vid I saw of him showed a really RAW shotgun passer who locks onto his 1st option and needs complete overhaul of his mechanics
GREAT arms don't mean squat...The OU offense is nowhere near an NFL caliber offense...THIS is the kid that will have the most difficulty transferring to the NFL...Bradford's having the SAME damn problem so far...Landry's STARTS are gonna be a problem also...There is a MAJOR difference concerning College STARTS when it comes to NFL success...It's PROVEN and has been documented numerous times...(Not lookin' it up yet again)...And Newton is having fun right now...Wait till this league gets a BOOK on em'...
STAY AWAY FROM JONES...I don't care what he does in Indy next spring...He's AT LEAST 3 years away from grasping any NFL caliber offense...Spreads DO NOT WORK in the NFL...
Quote: Barkley is more day 1 ready but has less ceiling...the question here is how much he can improve
Tannehill is a project but I like his upside
The most OVERATED word pertaining to any collegiate QB is "UPSIDE"...Upside what???...What's the upside???...Is he gonna get taller???...Stronger arm???...Fix his mechanics???...Learn to look off a defender???...Pre and post snaps read???...Learn to read an NFL Defense???...
It's NOT UPSIDE...It's called EXPERIENCE...
Barkley is more Day 1 ready but u like Tanny's "UPSIDE"...
Don't over-think it...Which is exactly what u guys do...And it's got everything to do with this "Upside" thing u refer to...
Quote: This time next year Weeden will be thirty-years old. Not exactly a guy you will have leading your franchise for the long term future.
Little correction..he got 28yo in October, so he will be a 28-29yo rook when the NFL season starts next year..his rookie contract will be for 5years max, so his last season of that contract he will be 32/33yo...not exactly too old for a QB
Again, most scouts LOVE him and on tape he's the 2nd or 3rd best QB....I've follwed this hype fest for too long....the closer we get to draft day the more tape will prevail (with some Mike Mamula-Al Davis-like brainfart picks mixed in)
We could have the unique chance of drafting a day 1 ready WR-QB combo....while Im no fan of drafting WRs in the top 10, we have a huge need there and backing Blackmon up with Weeden would solve some offseason or early season "chemistry" problems on top
as long as you are willing to ignore a bunch of components from the offenses of GB, NE, Buffalo, Carolina, NO, Philly (less so with them), etc.
then again, we run the WCO and it doesn't seem to be working in the NFL
I agree to some point though. Landry is going to have to adjust to not having all day to throw, his WRs not being so wide open, and not having every athlete having an advantage on the field for most games.
that's been a problem with college QBs since the beginning of time though (football was there since the beginning of time, right?).
There are rarely any NFL players drafted in their late twenties. I can only think of two, this past draft Danny Watkins was taken by the Eagles (he was 26). And Chris Weinke who was 29 during his rookie season, he was taken in the 4th round.
Just curious, what was the take on Chris Weinke coming out of college?
Quote: There are rarely any NFL players drafted in their late twenties. I can only think of two, this past draft Danny Watkins was taken by the Eagles (he was 26). And Chris Weinke who was 29 during his rookie season, he was taken in the 4th round.
Just curious, what was the take on Chris Weinke coming out of college?
Quan Cosby was 27 or 28 as well (Bengals cut him when they replaced him with ex-Longhorn teammate Jordan Shipley)
i don't really remember much on Weinke other than there were alot of people that were really high on him for winning the Heisman, beating Vick for the nat'l championship, being dominant for FSU, etc.
there may have been as many detractors (I just don't remember those offhand)
Quote: Glad to see you're not averse to taking Blackmon with our first pick. I haven't been this excited about a college player since Lesean McCoy.
I remember you pimping him hard before that draft and your "gut feeling" was spot on, so that bodes well for Blackmon, who IS a top talent at a top need position for us, so that makes him pretty valuable for our 1st pick
I have him in my 1st mock along with TY Hilton (speed) in the 4th for the slot....that would give us a depth chart of Blackmon-Little-Hilton-Cribbs-Norwood
I would look to trade Massa if he catches a 4th or better, if not keep him around...he's just so meh across the board and I hate his effort
As much as I like this QB class, I think there is a really good chance we go after Matt Flynn via free agency. If that were to happen, Heckert could go any direction, but I would just go ahead and get my franchise running back with Trent Richardson.
Atlanta's pick appears to be headed for late teens, the value there is probably best in linebacker or corner at this point. Would be a good spot to trade back as well.
As for Tannehill, he had a so/so game, None of the QBs looked like their normal stud self this week. 1 game doesn;t mean anything. This group of QBs are outstanding.
Quote: but I would just go ahead and get my franchise running back with Trent Richardson.
Wouldn't that require us using our first rounder on him? That should be a top ten pick and I would never even think about drafting a RB in the top ten unless the player is a transcendent talent (like Adrian Peterson or C.J. Spiller).
Do you think Richardson is that type of player (I'm not saying he isn't, just curious)? What about LaMichael James later in the draft?
It would be nice to be able to get Blackmon and then a linebacker/corner/right tackle with our second first rounder
I like Richardson as a player. I think his talent is similar to Peterson. My concern about taking him that high would be will Shurmur use him in a manner to make him worth the pick? I can't blame him for not doing much with Clayton and Obie but he didn't get great use out of Hillis or Hardesty when they were healthy.
Richardson is the more complete player. Better hands, better blocker and doesnt fumble. AP probably has better top end speed but Richardson has a great and I do mean a great initial burst and covers that first 10 quicker than QP.
I love that he has that he also has that emmit smith get low and squeak out yards when there was none to gain but really its that shimmy and spin move he can use at high speed which is just insane. He is a rare back.
Wanted to add similar style to AP in that both run with tremendous power and can break tackles. He also has fantastic vision to find that narrow hole. If he had played 8 games for us this year, with the kind of holes this OL has opened. He would be averaging a 100 a game.
A.P. was a better runner but Richardson is better as a receiver. I'd say A.P. was better overall, but he also had the injury issues coming out. Richardson can be the best in the NFL.
Indy will go receiver or trade down. Pretty sure they have a slew of free agents this year with Reggie Wayne, Garcon *spelling killer I know*, Mathis is a FA also, maybe Jacob Tamme too.
Rams need OL and Receiver Jags need receivers Panthers desperate for defense Arizona needs an OT desperately Seattle is starting to warm up to Tavaris Jackson The Denver Tebows are starting to put wins together and no one sells jersey's and fills seats like Tebow.
Redskins are the most likely to trade up for a QB, I could see Snyder and shanahan both going gaga for Luck. Sell the farm.
Miami will go QB but Moore has that team playing with confidence. Not sure where they will be picking.
KC has invested in Matt Cassell but he is now on IR and just hasn't played that well.
Even though more teams are getting off the QB must have list, other teams are climbing on it. We will probably end up drafting 4-6 so major decisions coming. Then with Atlanta say 14-17.
about the only thing in common all the teams listed have which includes us needs OL and recievers and perhaps QB. I think manning is done and unless someone offers them a New Orleans Ricky Williams trade I think they take the QB and call it another decade of domination.
We will have 3 picks in the top 40 players. A qb would be nice but I would be ok without drafting a qb as long as we get 3 high quality guys. Meaning above average NFL players. TJ Ward is an ok player but not acceptable in my opinion for a high 2nd round pick. We need to do better and this draft should be deep at positions in which we are weakest. We need players with talent, speed and power. Playmakers who will make us a better. Whether they are on the offense or defense or a combination of the two we need to get premier players and really bump up the talent quotient on this team.
He's just a guy to me- when I've seen him playing at least- who just looks skittish if there's any semblance of a rush. With us not having the support at ANY of the positions NE's offensive side of the ball has, particularly the trenches and skill positions, he'd be a huge risk here given his maturity level. Matt Kassell hadn't started since high school and could relax, sip Long Islands, and smoke cigs in the pocket to move the football. I mean his arm is amazing, but I certainly aren't giving up a first for him.
Peen I liked Mallett as well, but I get the feeling the Pats are looking to groom him for Brady's replacement. I dont think we would consider a 1st for a guy we passed on in the 3rd anyway.
I think Matt Flynn is more of a realistic option. No draft pick involved.
DnD, when they have these workouts Jones is gonna wow like no other. Now if he can show that he can pickup and run an NFL offense, then there will be owners a few general managers thats just gotta have that arm.
I don't think there is any way we don't get a QB in the offseason. I still have some hope for McCoy, but he hasn't done enough to prove he's the answer and that means we need to at the very least offer him some competition.
whether that means a guy like Flynn, drafting a QB in round1, or even waiting until round2 to draft a QB is the question. i don't see us waiting longer than that to nab our guy.
Quote: Peen I liked Mallett as well, but I get the feeling the Pats are looking to groom him for Brady's replacement. I dont think we would consider a 1st for a guy we passed on in the 3rd anyway.
I think Matt Flynn is more of a realistic option. No draft pick involved.
DnD, when they have these workouts Jones is gonna wow like no other. Now if he can show that he can pickup and run an NFL offense, then there will be owners a few general managers thats just gotta have that arm.
Maybe, maybe not.
Part of the draft process last year was to see what we had in Colt this season. Had we gone right out and drafted a QB it wouldn't have been the vote of confidence the guy needed headed in to this season.
i see your point, but i think heckert/holmgren could have drafted a 3rd round QB and said they were grooming him as Colt's backup and current QB3 (and even talked about how we needed all 3 QBs last year).
with Holmgren's QB draft history specifically, it would not have been too big of a surprise (more drafts with a QB than without).
By Chad Reuter Tell Chad your opinion! Senior Analyst - NFLDraftScout.com As the calendar flipped to November, the general order of April's draft has begun to take shape.
The top eight picks go to teams jostling for position through their poor play, with a falling Washington Redskins team possibly joining that "fight" if their offense can't muster points or protect the quarterback.
There is also a logjam near the playoff/non-playoff line, especially in the AFC where at least one of four teams that went into Week 9 at 5-2 teams -- Baltimore, Buffalo, Cincinnati and New England -- won't make the playoffs.
That means they'll miss out on the draft's elite talent by selecting in the late teens without getting a chance to play for a championship.
As the tension builds, NFLDraftScout.com will continue to bring you weekly mock draft updates until the pieces have all fallen into place. NFL Mock Draft - 11/17/2011 Round 1
1. Indianapolis Colts Andrew Luck, QB, Stanford: The winless Colts now have a stranglehold on the No. 1 pick. Even if Peyton Manning can return in 2012, his multiple neck surgeries can't give the Colts much confidence he'll stay on the field more than a couple of seasons. This means bringing in Luck to replace the future Hall of Famer seems a prudent move.
2. Miami Dolphins Matt Barkley, QB, Southern California: Matt Moore has played well enough for the Dolphins to win the past two weeks over rapidly descending Kansas City and Washington squads, but it's unlikely the team will stand pat at the position for 2012.
3. St. Louis Rams Zach Brown, OLB, North Carolina: At least one defensive player is selected in the top five of every draft. Brown is the odds-on favorite for this honor after displaying an excellent all-around game for North Carolina in his senior year, and his Combine performance is only expected to cement his status as an elite prospect.
4. Carolina Panthers Justin Blackmon, WR, Oklahoma State: Adding another legitimate big-play threat to pair with veteran Steve Smith can only help the progression of their 2011 top pick, quarterback Cam Newton.
5. Minnesota Vikings Matt Kalil, OT, Southern California: Adding Kalil up front should help keep last year's first-round pick, quarterback Christian Ponder, calmer in the pocket.
6. Washington Redskins Ryan Tannehill, QB, Texas A&M: Head coach Mike Shanahan will have his pick of quarterbacks unless the Redskins right the ship in a hurry. Tannehill's upside is intriguing, as his size, athleticism, strong arm, and intelligence are what coaches and scouts like to see -- even if his decision-making isn't as consistent as they'd like.
7. Cleveland Browns Trent Richardson, RB, Alabama: The drama surrounding Peyton Hillis may keep the Browns from signing him to a contract extension. If this is the case, the talented Richardson would be a natural fit.
8. Jacksonville Jaguars Alshon Jeffery, WR, South Carolina: Right now the Jaguars are using other teams' castoffs in Jason Hill and Brian Robiskie to support 2011 first-round pick QB Blaine Gabbert.
9. Seattle Seahawks Robert Griffin, QB, Baylor: Though not the biggest quarterback, Griffin will present challenges for NFL defenses with his strong arm and quick feet. He can sit behind a veteran for 2012 while adjusting to the NFL game, but the junior is already in graduate school and the play of 2011 rookies Cam Newton and Andy Dalton is showing teams they can help their young quarterbacks succeed early with good talent and game plans.
10. Philadelphia Eagles Michael Floyd, WR, Notre Dame: DeSean Jackson's issues may have him leaving Philly sooner rather than later, and Jeremy Maclin has not been the consistent playmaker the team needs.
11. Arizona Cardinals Riley Reiff, OT, Iowa: The Cardinals' investment in Kevin Kolb makes it crucial for him to stay healthy, and the team may not re-sign veteran free agent left tackle Levi Brown.
12. Kansas City Chiefs Jonathan Martin, OT, Stanford: Martin isn't as athletic as the tackles going ahead of him in this draft, but should be a solid starter for years to come at either left or right tackle.
13. Denver Broncos Landry Jones, QB, Oklahoma: The Broncos went 3-1 in the first four games with Tim Tebow leading the way. His 2-of-8 passing effort vs. Kansas City isn't likely to earn points with Hall of Fame passer and current VP of operations John Elway, who will look for a prototype pocket passer.
14. Tampa Bay Buccaneers Morris Claiborne, CB, LSU: If Ronde Barber decides to retire, Claiborne's ball skills and closing speed could allow him to flourish in Tampa's system.
15. San Diego Chargers Dre Kirkpatrick, CB, Alabama: The Chargers need more talent at cornerback to prevent the big plays they've given up the past couple of weeks.
16. Tennessee Titans Quinton Coples, DE, North Carolina: In recent drafts, top-rated 4-3 defensive ends have fallen into the middle of the first round, like when the Titans picked Derrick Morgan two years ago. Coples is actually a better fit for their defense, which may need another end with Jason Jones, Dave Ball, and William Hayes all potential free agents.
17. Buffalo Bills Mike Adams, OT, Ohio State: Signing quarterback Ryan Fitzpatrick to a contract extension makes re-signing left tackle Demetrius Bell or finding his replacement in free agency/the draft a major priority.
18. NY Jets David DeCastro, OG, Stanford: The Jets could move up to get DeCastro if they don't believe he'll be available here, as his ability to block on the move is very reminiscent of former Jets Pro Bowl guard Alan Faneca.
19. Cleveland Browns (from Atlanta) Whitney Mercilus, DE, Illinois: Mercilus could help the Browns increase their sack total and contain the edge to funnel run play to the team's linebackers. He complements last year's second-round pick, Jabaal Sheard, very well.
20. Dallas Cowboys Luke Kuechly, ILB, Boston College: The ultra-productive Kuechly could replace either of the team's free agent linebackers, Keith Brooking and Bradie James, to combine with Sean Lee to give the Cowboys a very instinctive duo inside.
21. Cincinnati Bengals Devon Still, DT, Penn State: Adding girth and athleticism in the middle tightens up the run defense and flushes opposing quarterbacks into the arms of Cincinnati's outside rushers.
22. Detroit Lions Manti Te'o, ILB, Notre Dame: The Lions' leading tackler, DeAndre Levy, may hit the free agent market after the season.
23. Cincinnati Bengals (from Oakland) Alfonzo Dennard, CB, Nebraska: Free agency could decimate the team's depth at corner, and Dennard's toughness and knack for knocking away passes should overcome his average size to keep him in the first round.
24. Chicago Bears Cordy Glenn, OG, Georgia: Even if the Bears like what they've seen from J'marcus Webb at left tackle, Glenn could play inside to bolster Jay Cutler's protection and make room for Matt Forte (assuming they sign him to the large contract everyone expects).
25. Houston Texans Peter Konz, C, Wisconsin: The nation's top center suffered an ankle injury during Wisconsin's win over Minnesota on November 12, but he is expected to be back for the Big Ten Championship Game if the Badgers are participating.
26. NY Giants Brandon Thompson, DT, Clemson: The Giants stopped San Francisco from running the ball effectively, but have generally given up a lot of plays on the ground so finding some strength in the middle could shore up that part of the defense.
27. New England Patriots Dont'a Hightower, ILB, Alabama: Owner Bob Kraft was on the sideline for LSU-Alabama, and the Nick Saban-Bill Belichick connection seems likely to result in at least one of the Tide's talented defenders to help bolster a non-existent pass rush.
28. New England Patriots (from New Orleans) Chase Minnifield, CB, Virginia: The Patriots are constantly looking to improve the depth of their secondary, so the son of former NFL Pro Bowl cornerback Frank Minnifield -- who was coached by Belichick for two years in Cleveland.
29. Baltimore Ravens Courtney Upshaw, OLB, Alabama: Upshaw's versatility should allow him to excel inside or outside in the Ravens' scheme.
30. San Francisco 49ers Nick Toon, WR, Wisconsin: Josh Morgan, Ted Ginn and Braylon Edwards are scheduled to be free agents after the season -- the team will need playmakers at the position.
31. Pittsburgh Steelers Kelechi Osemele, OG, Iowa State: The Steelers seem to have trouble keeping their offensive lineman healthy, and love wide tackles with great length and toughness; Osemele has all of the above.
32. Green Bay Packers Dontari Poe, DT, Memphis: Poe has the size and athleticism to play any spot along the Packers' three-man line. web page
By Rob Rang Tell Rob your opinion! Senior Analyst - NFLDraftScout.com The surprising success of rookie quarterbacks Cam Newton and Andy Dalton will only encourage NFL teams to eschew other needs and make quarterback the ultimate draft priority.
This fact could pay off for teams "lucky" enough to be in competition for the right to select Stanford's Andrew Luck, Southern Cal's Matt Barkley or Oklahoma's Landry Jones.
Other than the top quarterbacks, the 2012 draft does not appear to be an especially elite. The elite defensive linemen that have characterized each of the past few drafts are gone. On the other hand, assuming a few noteworthy underclassmen leave early as expected, this could wind up being a strong draft for offensive tackles, wide receivers and cornerbacks.
No mock draft written this far in advance is going to be 100% accurate. After all, the easy part-- the draft order -- is even far from being finalized. So, take this mock draft for what it is -- a preview of what may happen in April so that you can focus on the players your favorite pro team may already be scouting. NFL Mock Draft - 11/17/2011
Round 1 1. Indianapolis Colts Andrew Luck, QB, Stanford: Some have made the argument that the fact that the Colts are winless without Peyton Manning and viewed as a Super Bowl contender with him only reinforces his brilliance. While the argument might have merit, it doesn't change the fact that Manning will be 36 next season and coming off several neck surgeries. Bill Polian won't allow loyalty to Manning to keep him from doing what is best for the Colts moving forward -- and what's best is drafting Luck first and deciding what to do with his two franchise quarterbacks later.
2. Miami Dolphins Matt Barkley, QB, Southern California: The surprising victory in Arrowhead Stadium over the Chiefs only proved what has been obvious to anyone paying attention to the Dolphins (all four of us) this season - that this is a pretty talented team that simply hasn't figured out yet how to win. Some would argue that is the skill that makes Barkley an elite prospect.
3. St. Louis Rams Justin Blackmon, WR, Oklahoma State: The Rams invested heavily this past season in wide receivers to develop with young star quarterback Sam Bradford. If Billy Delaney is once again picking in the top five, however, that plan hasn't worked. As such, it would be tough to pass on the playmaking Blackmon.
4. Carolina Panthers Quinton Coples, DE, North Carolina: Fielding one of the league's most porous run defenses, the Panthers could elect to stay close to home and draft Coples to help fill the gaps. Primarily playing defensive end this season for the Tar Heels, Coples has been unable to take advantage of the momentum he'd made last season while playing inside. In the NFL, he'll likely be asked to move back inside.
5. Minnesota Vikings Morris Claiborne, CB, LSU: Prior to his arrest for domestic assault, former second-round pick Chris Cook had been playing well for the Vikings. With his situation up in the air and depth behind him a concern, Minnesota would be wise to look at replacement options. Claiborne has been the most impressive corner in the country in 2011 and is quickly rising up draft boards.
6. Washington Redskins Trent Richardson, RB, Alabama: The Redskins would love to see Luck or Barkley still on the board, as both possess the mobility and accuracy to be very successful in the Shanahan's offense. Richardson, arguably the best player in the draft not named Luck, is a heckuva consolation prize.
7. Cleveland Browns Matt Kalil, OT, Southern California: The Browns are set at left tackle with Joe Thomas, but have struggled to get consistent play from veterans Tony Pashos and Oniel Cousins on the right side. Kalil is gaining a reputation for lax technique, but that is only because he's able to dominate at the collegiate level due to his natural ability.
8. Jacksonville Jaguars Michael Floyd, WR, Notre Dame: The Jaguars need help at wide receiver. Bringing back Mike Sims-Walker (before placing him on Injured Reserve) only reinforced this fact. Floyd is being rated by some scouts as the elite senior prospect in the country. He'd give 2011 first round pick Blaine Gabbert a needed weapon.
9. Seattle Seahawks Devon Still, DT, Penn State: Still has been as dominant as any defensive lineman in the country, but the inconsistency and durability concerns that haunted his early career could limit how high he will rise on draft day. Big, strong and capable of playing either defensive tackle position or backing up Red Bryant at left defensive end, Still would make sense if the top quarterbacks are off the board
10. Philadelphia Eagles Zach Brown, OLB, North Carolina: The Eagles' much-maligned linebacking corps could use an infusion of athleticism and playmaking skills. I'm not as high on Brown as some seem to be, but there is no denying that he possesses a great deal of upside.
11. Arizona Cardinals Riley Reiff, OT, Iowa: Kevin Kolb has been a disappointment in his first season as the Cardinals' starting quarterback, but the team isn't likely to panic after just one year. Rather, the team would be wise to protect him with better blindside protection. Reiff, a left tackle for Iowa, has the size, technique and physicality to contribute early.
12. Kansas City Chiefs Jonathan Martin, OT, Stanford: With injuries robbing Kansas City of three of their best players (Eric Berry, Jamaal Charles, Tony Moeaki) early this season, the team has struggled to play with any consistency. How these players appear to be proceeding in their rehabilitation may go a long way in determining what direction GM Scott Pioli will look with his 2012 first round pick. As it stands now, Martin would make a great deal of sense as he'll provide aid to an average offensive line and is the best player available.
13. Denver Broncos Landry Jones, QB, Oklahoma: Should the Broncos continue to win with Tim Tebow they could elect to spend this pick differently. If picking in the top half of the draft, however, John Elway and John Fox aren't likely to pass on a quarterback with Jones' natural passing talents.
14. Tampa Bay Buccaneers Dre Kirkpatrick, CB, Alabama: Only four teams are allowing more passing yards per game than the Buccaneers (263 yards). Kirkpatrick's inconsistent technique worries some scouts, but his size, athleticism and physicality could eventually make him the best cornerback to come out of this draft. At this point in the draft, he'd be a steal.
15. San Diego Chargers Orson Charles, TE, Georgia: Newsflash - the Chargers feature arguably the league's elite tight end in Antonio Gates. Gates' inability to remain healthy, however, too often puts San Diego in a precarious position. While smaller than most teams prefer, the 6-3, 245-pound Charles is a matchup nightmare with surprising prowess as a blocker.
16. Tennessee Titans Dwayne Allen, TE, Clemson: The Titans feature one of the NFL's best athletic talents in tight end Jared Cook, but injuries and inconsistency haven't allowed the former South Carolina standout to become the star Tennessee expected. With young receivers stepping up and their quarterback of the future already secured in Jake Locker, the club might be interested in adding another threat down the seam to aid in the offense's transition. Allen (6-4, 255) is viewed by some scouts to be the most complete tight end in the country.
17. Buffalo Bills Manti Te'o, ILB, Notre Dame: The surprising play of Buffalo's offense has helped hide what remains one of the league's leakiest run defenses. Last season Buffalo finished dead last and this year they've been only slightly better. The physical and instinctive Te'o could help remedy that.
18. NY Jets David DeCastro, OG, Stanford: The Jets have been one of the league's better running teams since Rex Ryan took over, but they are struggling so far this season. DeCastro doesn't have much name recognition yet, but is viewed by some as the elite interior offensive lineman in the country.
19. Cleveland Browns (from Atlanta) Alfonzo Dennard, CB, Nebraska: The Browns feature one of the league's better young cover corners in Joe Haden, but have been inconsistent, at best, on the other side. Dennard lacks the height scouts prefer, but is a physical press corner who could provide the Browns' with an athlete equally capable of providing lockdown coverage as Haden.
20. Dallas Cowboys Jerel Worthy, DT, Michigan State: The Cowboys' defense has made gains under Rob Ryan, but inconsistencies up front have led to plenty of breakdowns in coverage on the back end. With longer arms than most 6-3, 305-pounders, Worthy could contribute at end or nose guard in Dallas' 3-4 alignment.
21. Cincinnati Bengals Cordy Glenn, OG, Georgia: The Bengals have their young quarterback and boast talent along their offensive line, especially at tackle. Glenn's size and power makes a lot of sense in Cincinnati's downhill running attack.
22. Detroit Lions Janoris Jenkins, CB, North Alabama: With all of the focus on Ndamukong Suh and the Lions' talented defensive line (not to mention Calvin Johnson and Detroit's explosive offense), not enough credit for the team's turnaround has gone to the improved play of their secondary. Rivals, however, think that Detroit is doing it with smoke and mirrors and will almost surely look to address the secondary in the draft. Jenkins has top 20 talent, but his off-field problems could cause him to slip. The Lions were lauded for snatching up Nick Fairley when he dropped last year and could get better immediate dividends from the playmaking Jenkins.
23. Cincinnati Bengals (from Oakland) Lamar Miller, RB, Miami (Fla.): If there is a running back in the country capable of leaping into the first round to join Alabama's Trent Richardson, it is likely this redshirt sophomore. Possessing big-play speed to go with his 5-11, 212-pound frame, Miller could prove to be a difference-maker and insurance for the Bengals behind the bruising Cedric Benson.
24. Chicago Bears Mark Barron, SS, Alabama: The Bears have shuffled through several veterans at safety this season and surprisingly enough are getting the most consistent play out of rookie Chris Conte, a third-round pick out of California. Conte's range makes him a natural free safety. Barron, more of a downhill thumper, would be a solid complement in Chicago.
25. Houston Texans Dontari Poe, DT, Memphis: The Texans have emerged as one of the NFL's best teams, but run defense remains a concern without a dominant nose guard. Poe, at 6-5 and 350 pounds, possesses a rare combination of size, strength and athleticism and would surely intrigue the Texans and any other teams in search of a nose guard, should he leave Memphis early
26. NY Giants Luke Kuechly, ILB, Boston College: Giants' head coach Tom Coughlin, who served as the head coach at Boston College from 1991-1993, has hit big with former Eagles Mathias Kiwanuka, Chris Snee and Mark Herzlich. It isn't difficult to imagine Kuechly continuing the BC pipeline.
27. New England Patriots Courtney Upshaw, OLB, Alabama: One of the real surprises of the 2011 draft was that the Patriots elected not to add bodies to a front seven sorely in need of reinforcements. With yet another two first-round picks this year, don't expect Bill Belichick to ignore the needs again. Upshaw lines up at defensive end much of the time for Nick Saban, but has proven the ability to drop into coverage, making him a potentially perfect fit in Belichick's varied fronts.
28. New England Patriots (from New Orleans) Kendall Wright, WR, Baylor: Considering the dominant play of slot receiver Wes Welker and the Patriots' fearsome two-headed monster at tight end in Rob Gronkowski and Aaron Hernandez, it might seem unlikely that the Patriots would look to add more weapons for Tom Brady. All Bill Belichick knows to do, however, is attack. Wright lacks name recognition, but is an elusive speedster who is quickly moving up draft boards.
29. Baltimore Ravens Kelechi Osemele, OG, Iowa State: The Ravens boast one of the better all-around offensive lines in the NFL and are especially strong inside at guard where I ultimately project Osemele to play. Arguably the Ravens' best blocker is left guard Ben Grubbs, who is scheduled for free agency after this season. With a team as talented as Baltimore, the first round isn't so much about finding new stars as it is reloading for the inevitability of losing some to free agency.
30. San Francisco 49ers Mohamed Sanu, WR, Rutgers: The injury to Josh Morgan and relative disappointment that Michael Crabtree has been since being the 49ers' 2009 first round pick makes wide receiver an area of concern. A prototypical receiver for the West Coast system, Sanu's size, physicality and toughness make up for a lack of elite speed.
31. Pittsburgh Steelers Mike Adams, OT, Ohio State: The Steelers seemingly patch up their offensive line annually, only to struggle with injuries and consistency up front. Adams (6-6, 320) has the monstrous frame that Pittsburgh has traditionally preferred up front and would reunite the Buckeye left tackle with his old practice partner - Steelers' 2011 first round pick DE Cameron Heyward.
32. Green Bay Packers Billy Winn, DE, Boise State: General manager Ted Thompson loves to use high-round picks to fortify his lines. Winn doesn't get a great deal of recognition due to the fact that he plays for Boise State, but the versatile defensive lineman certainly would make sense for a Packers' team on the lookout for size, strength and youth up front. web page
Don Banks talks about the QB carousel for this upcoming offseason. I am just putting the relevant portions here.
Quote:
Is Green Bay Backup Matt Flynn The Wild-Card Factor? The draft is never the only source of starting quarterback options, of course. Next year's Kevin Kolb might well be Packers backup Matt Flynn, the fourth-year former LSU starter who was a seventh-round pick in 2008. Flynn played fairly well in a two-game relief stint of the injured Aaron Rodgers late last year, just before the start of the playoffs, and he now has the imprint of the Packers' Super Bowl success attached to his name.
Dilfer makes a compelling case for how some teams in the market for a new starting option might find Flynn their most attractive candidate.
"The big wrench in the whole quarterback market could be Matt Flynn,'' Dilfer said. "What happens when a superstar quarterback like Aaron Rodgers has a signature year with a signature coaching staff, and all the offensive coaches on that team then start finally getting their due? In that situation, the backup quarterback sometimes all of a sudden becomes a prized commodity. Especially when Aaron, one of his best friends, starts telling everybody, 'This dude can play. He's just like me when I was a backup for Brett Favre. He does all the same things I did when I was a backup.'
"He's kind of like an Aaron Rodgers clone the same way Rodgers looked a little like a Favre clone, and the way Matt Hasselbeck in Green Bay looked like a Favre clone. His value is going to be off the charts for some teams. They may not evaluate all the college quarterbacks and say, 'Okay, what's the easy fix? Matt Flynn, let's go get him. Because we'll coach him just like he was coached in Green Bay.' They may or may not do that, but he'll be a player in this thing, in this market.''
Two scenarios that sound plausible in terms of Flynn are Cleveland and Miami. Browns football czar Mike Holmgren may not think he has the time or inclination to go the rookie quarterback development route again, and that's where Flynn's experience level becomes more attractive. Even as strong competition for McCoy, Flynn might fit well in Cleveland.
As for the Dolphins, perhaps they win their way out of the draft position to land Barkley or Jones, and Flynn becomes their fallback plan. If Miami fires head coach Tony Sparano as expected, someone off Mike McCarthy's staff in Green Bay could get interviewed, given that the Packers' program is the current NFL gold standard. Maybe quarterbacks coach Tom Clements or offensive coordinator Joe Philbin is the next Dolphins head coach, and Flynn becomes a viable starting alternative in Miami. That's the way the NFL often works.
Who Else Might Be Facing A Quarterback Question? Reading the current tea leaves, here's how we see the rest of the quarterback issues around the league, besides those teams we've already mentioned:
• Cleveland -- The Browns don't seem convinced Colt McCoy is their long-term answer at the position, but it's also not likely Holmgren would go shopping in the first round for another quarterback. Holmgren is a big believer in the idea that you can find QB talent in the second or third round, without paying a first-round premium at the position.
How McCoy ends his second season in Cleveland could play a significant factor in the Browns' plans, but if the above-mentioned pursuit of Flynn doesn't materialize, the most likely scenario would be for Holmgren to zero in on the second tier of prospects, such as Cousins, Griffin, Tannehill or Lindley.
the more I think about it, the more that Griffin seems like he fits the recent Holmgren QB model. Accurate, athletic, and not necessarily a strong arm. He'd fit right in with Seneca and Colt (not sure that is a good thing or not though).
I have been saying for awhile that the Matt Flynn option just seems like the most likely scenario. I haven't seen a lot of Flynn since his college days, but I have liked what I have seen. Pretty good arm, tight spiral and improved accuracy. Guess the biggest difference is the confidence he appears to have in his own ability to make the smart decision and the accurate throw.
I love this QB draft class but if we can get a really good QB without the high draft pick then I am all for it.
I love Hillis but I can't trust that Hammy. Hardesty, just doesn't have it anymore, to many injuries and he has lost his vision. We need a RB with good vision to fit this offense. Hey lets see what Armond can do. When the draft rolls around there is no doubts as to where we stand at RB.
Receiver, H&H does not like 1st round receivers. there will be some good ones in this years draft in the 2nd.
LB is the most underrated position in this draft. Not a lot of love but man there is some mad talent here. *I think Lewis from Oklahoma could be this years Aldon Smith*. 4 rounds of linebackers so we should find a good one since we will probably be looking for a smaller LB that can tackle and Cover. Again Danny Trevathon from Ky is gonna get a long look from this staff. barring injury he will have led the SEC in tackles the last 2 years and is probably a 3rd round linebacker.
Arguably the teams biggest need is Pass rushing RDE. Outside of the kid from Marshall, I really havent seen a pass rusher that stands out for me. Is Osi a FA?
Corner class is loaded but for as much flack as Sheldon Brown gets we still may not take a corner in the first 3 rounds.
Great class for RTs. You can get a starter anywhere in the first 3 or 4 rounds.
most recent outing he had Gray running rampant on K-State and still could only manage a 4.6YPA. that is against a college defense that was soley worrying about stopping Gray (and failling as he had a 7.3YPC).
Tannehill recent stats. The last number is the YPC of A&M in that game.
Iowa State 24/43 263yds 2TDs 0Int 6.11YPA (5.3YPC - in large part to Tannehill's sacks. Michael 7.9YPC / Gray 6.0YPC) Mizzou 35/53 317yds 3TDs 1Int 5.98YPA (4.0YPC) Oklahoma 32/63 379yds 2TDs 3Ints 6.0YPA (5.1YPC) KState 27/46 210yds 3TDs 1Int 4.6YPA (6.3YPC)
Yes, he shredded SMU, Idaho, and Baylor. But, outside of the above he also struggled against OkieState and Arkansas. He was a non-factor in the TxTech game (not good or bad).
All of this coming with one of the nations best team running games.
• Cleveland -- The Browns don't seem convinced Colt McCoy is their long-term answer at the position, but it's also not likely Holmgren would go shopping in the first round for another quarterback. Holmgren is a big believer in the idea that you can find QB talent in the second or third round, without paying a first-round premium at the position.
How McCoy ends his second season in Cleveland could play a significant factor in the Browns' plans, but if the above-mentioned pursuit of Flynn doesn't materialize, the most likely scenario would be for Holmgren to zero in on the second tier of prospects, such as Cousins, Griffin, Tannehill or Lindley.
God help us if that's what the Walrus is thinking....
Hey Mikey, this isn't the 1999 NFL version anymore...the QB bust ration in the 1st has gone down recently, GMs around the league have figured something out about QBs...
I'll be nice, just the 2nd to 4th round QBs since 2000:
Brees and Schaub the only above AVG or better QBs on that list with Dalton having a shot to get there...both Dalton and Brees were very high 2nd...32nd and 35th overall....and guess who was the only QB even worth mentioning in that time from the 5th+....yeah, Brady....and moronic homers around team message boards since then compare every late round QB to either Brady or Brees...but they are the 2%, the big rest is garbage
but yeah, Holmgren "believes" he can find one in round 2+, lol...good luck on that 2% Walrus
Meanwhile, just to list all the QBs from the 1st in that time span just to crosscheck:
Still a lot of busts, but the hit % is WAY higher than 2-5%
I hope Holmgren steps out of the way and lets Heckert do his job....Holmgren hasn't been a great prospect evaluater in Seattle and I hope he doesn't "pull rank" in this draft when it comes to a QB selection
So he had a bad game....in which he still had a 8.2yds/PA, 3TDs to go with his 3 INTs and over 450yds btw....go watch everybody's darling Barkley against ASU with his 63% comp, 1-2 TD/INT and 6.9yds/pass or Landry Jones against TT, FSU or A&M....I'm sure everybody will feel good spending a Top 5 pick after watching those games....1 game is 1 game, happens
I'd rather have Luck too but he's a longshot, so I'd roll the dice on Weeden late 1st, early 2nd rather than spend a top 10 (or probably more) to get Barkley or Jones
Thought this was a pretty cool link you guys might enjoy/find useful. The problem with it is that right now they only include Seniors. I am sure the others will be added when they declare for the draft but I woud like to see those guys now. Otherwise a pretty dismal draft if no underclassmen were to declare.
The 2012 NFL draft might be more than five months away, but we at Pro Football Weekly never stop preparing for it. With that in mind, we thought we'd take our loyal readers along for the ride as we scout the top college talent in the nation.
Check out Nolan Nawrocki's early scouting reports, which are now available. Chart the prospects' progress throughout the year, and hear the latest buzz from the scouting trails.
As far as draft strength, don't get too hung up on that. Top prospects usually leave after their junior year, so all drafts look weak without adding them.
If you added last years juniors to this class, it would look as good as any other year.
After kids make the jump this year, next years class is going to look weak....until the next wave make the jump....and so on
The player that really got my attention last night was Adcock. Another good RT prospect that should be there in the 2nd. 2nd round appears to be the round for a RT. Wouldn't mind having a couple 2nd rounders though lol.
Weeden and Blackmon's stock is pretty steady. I still see a 2nd round prospect in Weeden due to scheme and age. As bad as some will say he played last night, man he made some Aaron Rogers throws last night.
Blackmon will come off the board quick as teams want to put their young QB with a stud young receiver and I could see a few teams on the back end looking to trade up for the kid as well.
The North Carolina game killed Zach Browns stock imho. Linebacker is the hustle position and when I see a linebacker that stands around waiting for others to make a play, he is done for in my book. At times I see Demeco Ryans at other times I see a good CFL prospect. Kid must have ADD or something.
While we are talking UNC prospects. Coples looks like a pure 3-4 end. The kid that I think is going to be a star off that team is WR Dwight Jones. Will probably go mid to late 2nd. Kid is going to be really good at the next level.
Tonight USC vs. Oregon is the game to watch if you want to really compare Barkley to Luck.
Weeden is a good prospect, django just thinks you can completely overlook his age.
He's 28. He's older than Aaron Rodgers. You can't take him in the 1st.
If I could get him in the 2nd, early 3rd, I'd be all over it though. (Assuming we don't take a 1st round QB.)
What do u think of Danny Trevathan?
I've been working on a mock draft and got us drafting both Sean Spence and Danny Trevathan in the mid-rounds.. Both are undersized but great tacklers, especially behind the LOS.
I realize that. Just making an observation that the best players in the draft will be the underclassman (As it tends to be every year) and that it will be hard to project any kind of draft position for a player until we know which underclassmen will/won't declare. The draft will look a lot different if players that we think will declare (Luck, Barkley, Richardson, Burfect etc) return to college. Everyone is saying "Oh I would be happy with Barkley". What if he doesn't come out?
Definitely not a cause for concern, the draft will be what it will be.
Weeden is a good prospect, django just thinks you can completely overlook his age.
He's 28. He's older than Aaron Rodgers. You can't take him in the 1st.
If I could get him in the 2nd, early 3rd, I'd be all over it though. (Assuming we don't take a 1st round QB.)
I am mostly yanking DJs chain...if you could photoshop McCoy's body over Weeden's body last night, DJ would have said Weeden will go undrafted and would get cut in the CFL.
I'm nowhere near the "draft guy" that many are on this board...not even close...but I would not take Weeden until the 4th at the absolute earliest.
I am of the opinion that our first (4) picks MUST be capable of being starters on Day 1 next season...Lord knows we have the holes. (I might even say our first (5) picks if we are picking in the top 5 each round.)
CB & WR in the 1st RT in the 2nd LB/RB in the 3rd RB/LB in the 4th
Even with the little I know about players outside Rd 1, I'd say that is very do-able.
Quote: If you're expecting to get a Day 1 starter outside of the first two rounds, you're going to be very disappointed.
Not saying it doesn't happen, but it's rare ... Very rare.
Even the guys who come in rounds 3-7 that eventually become good starters in the NFL, generally weren't ready to start Day 1.
I agree with you generally...but we are bad enough at enough places and our 3rd & 4th round picks will likely be very, very early in the round.
I EXPECT our first three picks to be starters next year. It is reasonable to think that the best available of RT/WR/CB/LB when we pick would be able to beat out what we have now. (I say that assuming that the WR & CB would be taken in the 1st...maybe second.)
If we go DE , that guy could easily start as well if taken early. Also at RB depending on what happens with Hillis/Hardesty and how Jackson recovers.
I keep saying/hinting/hoping that we need one more really good draft and off-season to get to the point where we could "sell out" to draft a QB or sign a FA to get us over the top.
This next draft and offseason will dictate whether we start to be consistently competitive in 2012 or if we need yet another year just to get to that beginning.
Trevathon is one of the most underrated player in this draft. He is great in coverage and about as sure handed of a tackler as you will find. The kid is going to lead the SEC in tackles for a 2nd straight year. He reminds of Thomas Davis before the knee injuries. This kid can play. Would love to see him in a Browns uniform as he would be perfect for the Weakside Linebacker position.
Quote: Trevathon is one of the most underrated player in this draft. He is great in coverage and about as sure handed of a tackler as you will find. The kid is going to lead the SEC in tackles for a 2nd straight year. He reminds of Thomas Davis before the knee injuries. This kid can play. Would love to see him in a Browns uniform as he would be perfect for the Weakside Linebacker position.
yea.. watching him today.. he missed no tackles.. and every tackle he made there was no way the runner/receiver was getting away.. He was decent against the run too. If I remember correctly.. he may have even forced a fumble.
He had a 3rd round grade as a junior, he thought he could improve upon that and came back for his senior year. Right now he is considered a 3rd round prospect again. With so many teams going to the 3-4, it cuts down on his value but he is going to be a steal for someone. I suspect he will end up late 2nd early 3rd area.
1 - There is a lot of talk about the various Qb's in this draft (Luck,Barkley,Jones,RG3,Tannehill) but a guy who looks to me like he is having a very good year is getting absolutely zero notice. Tyler Wilson of Arkansas. A 6'3" 220# redshirt junior.
SEASON CMP ATT YDS CMP% YPA LNG TD INT SACK RAT 2011 243 385 3215 63.1 8.35 68 21 5 18 148.7
Why is there no talk about this guy? Am I missing something?
2 - D'Qwell is having a nice year but at season's end he is a FA. I don't know if he wants to re-sign with us or at what price. Regardless he has the injury history which I still have some (though significantly decreased from the start of the season) concerns about. But more so I would prefer a big mean thumper in the middle of our defense. Someone to bring a meanness and attitude. Which I don't think D'Qwell does. I also think we could move D'Qwell to OLB and improve both LB spots.
With the Atlanta pick we might have our choice of the 2 top ILB in this draft. Vontaze Burfict and Manti Te'o. IF we decide to go that direction, which one would you choose and why? I ask because I have yet to see either in action personally.
1 - There is a lot of talk about the various Qb's in this draft (Luck,Barkley,Jones,RG3,Tannehill) but a guy who looks to me like he is having a very good year is getting absolutely zero notice. Tyler Wilson of Arkansas. A 6'3" 220# redshirt junior.
SEASON CMP ATT YDS CMP% YPA LNG TD INT SACK RAT 2011 243 385 3215 63.1 8.35 68 21 5 18 148.7
Why is there no talk about this guy? Am I missing something?
2 - D'Qwell is having a nice year but at season's end he is a FA. I don't know if he wants to re-sign with us or at what price. Regardless he has the injury history which I still have some (though significantly decreased from the start of the season) concerns about. But more so I would prefer a big mean thumper in the middle of our offense.
With the Atlanta pick we might have our choice of the 2 top ILB in this draft. Vontaze Burfict and Manti Te'o. IF we decide to go that direction, which one would you choose and why? I ask because I have yet to see either in action personally.
I'm not sure if the Arkansas QB is coming out.. I think thats why there isn't much talk about him..
If Burfict is there with the Atlanta pick.. sure.. I would take him. He brings an fierce presence to his defense. For whatever reason though, I'd rather use the pick on a corner like Chase Minnifield who is good in man coverage, and GREAT against the run.
Our defense is pretty good w/ the mediocre LB's that we have. Adding some mid/late picks like Sean Spence and Trevathan would be sufficient to me. Tackling is the biggest weakness on this team, and both of them are tackling monsters. I think D'Q will get an extension too.
From GBN Report: Austin Davis, Southern Mississippi, 6-2, 200, 4.75, SR … Prototype west coast QB who actually came to Southern Miss as a baseball prospect; very good athlete with the ability to run out of trouble; throws well on the run; accurate passer completed 63% of his pass attempts in 2010 for 3,100 yards and 20 TDs; reads the field well, makes quick decisions and has a quick, compact release; takes care of the football and had just 6 picks last season; character player has already graduated with a degree in business administration; missed 8 games in 2009 with a foot injury.
wilson has played better of late but he was looking pretty sloppy early on. Another year will do him good.
Burfict, I would not touch with a first round draft choice. Maybe 3rd where there isn't much risk involved. The guy is headcase and he just seems like the type that when he gets some money in his pockets look out.
Saw on ESPN this morning that Trevathon finished the game with 16 tackles and 2 forced fumbles. He had been putting up 18 a game.
From GBN Report: Austin Davis, Southern Mississippi, 6-2, 200, 4.75, SR … Prototype west coast QB who actually came to Southern Miss as a baseball prospect; very good athlete with the ability to run out of trouble; throws well on the run; accurate passer completed 63% of his pass attempts in 2010 for 3,100 yards and 20 TDs; reads the field well, makes quick decisions and has a quick, compact release; takes care of the football and had just 6 picks last season; character player has already graduated with a degree in business administration; missed 8 games in 2009 with a foot injury.
If they stick with McCoy for another season, that sounds like the kind of kid they might bring in behind him as a "developmental" guy.
wilson has played better of late but he was looking pretty sloppy early on. Another year will do him good.
I agree that he would be better served coming back for a senior season. Especially given the number of 1st 2 round rated qb's coming out. He looks good though - from the little that I have seen. But if he did come out ...
Quote: Burfict, I would not touch with a first round draft choice. Maybe 3rd where there isn't much risk involved. The guy is headcase and he just seems like the type that when he gets some money in his pockets look out.
I don't get that whole money issue impression about him. I get the impression that he is just a crazy football loving beast. Only question is: can you keep him from being too crazy/out of control?
Quote: Saw on ESPN this morning that Trevathon finished the game with 16 tackles and 2 forced fumbles. He had been putting up 18 a game.
So you are saying he is starting to slack off? Resting on his laurels?
I'm all for grabbing the top two defensive players with our first two picks. We are developing a positive defensive identity, and I'd like to keep going in the right direction. Great defenses can win championships.
I'm all for grabbing the top two defensive players with our first two picks. We are developing a positive defensive identity, and I'd like to keep going in the right direction. Great defenses can win championships.
with what offense? no way we spend both of those picks on the defensive side of the ball.. its possible for sure as we could address positions like DE, LB, and CB.. With Hillis on the mends of going elsewhere.. this offense needs a star..
I leave Luck off because even if the Browns lose out, there's a zero percent chance Indy wins 3-4 games.
I might even move Claiborne above Richardson as putting a player that talented opposite of Haden instantly makes the defense that much better. RB is probably something we can get with our Falcons 1st or our pick near the top of the 2nd.
Browns need some more help on the DL but with Taylor and Sheard looking like keepers, along with Rubin, I think you try to go out and get an established DE to pair with that young crew. Not sure if you need to take a defensive lineman with that top pick. Browns really need a difference maker on offense.
I'm really not a big Blackmon fan. I don't think he's explosive enough or fast enough to be a stud in the NFL. I think he can be an Anquan Boldin type guy, but not elite.
And there's no way I'm drafting Boldin in the top ten.
Quote: I'm really not a big Blackmon fan. I don't think he's explosive enough or fast enough to be a stud in the NFL. I think he can be an Anquan Boldin type guy, but not elite.
And there's no way I'm drafting Boldin in the top ten.
Don't we already kind of have a Boldin type in G. Little?
While Blackmon doesn't have elite speed, my guess is he'll run much better than people think.
At 6'1"-6'2", he's a bit of a long strider, so he doesn't "look fast" but he certainly doesn't have any trouble getting open.
He also has great hands, something none of our receivers do. Great on 3rd down with his bigger frame and also great on the goaline with the ability to make the leaping catch.
I think he's a much better prospect than Bolden. Straight line speed is so overrated at WR. Larry Fitz ran a what at the combine? 4.65?
I'm not talking about 40-times. I don't care about them whatsoever. Blackmon doesn't play with great speed. He isn't explosive in and out of his breaks and doesn't have that high of upside. He's another receiver who doesn't have the speed to run deep and make big plays. This is, of course, all just my opinion.
Torrey Smith is a guy I wanted last year, and he is exactly what the Browns need on offense.
Yeah, but the issue being the Browns don't run a vertical scheme. The WCO is all intermediate routes, 7-15 yards downfield.
I suppose you could work in some deeper routes if you drafted a speed guy like Smith but he doesn't really fit in to the offensive scheme the Browns are running.
The bigger, more physical receivers tend to be what you look for on the outside. Guys with good hands who can go over the middle are much more valuable when everything is 3 step and on occasion 5. The ball comes out so quickly in the WCO that a vertical threat can just get lost in the wash.
I think a lot of people are buying into the stereotypical WCO too much. The Packers run a WCO but primarily utilize a down-field passing attack. The Eagles also run a WCO, but their two best receivers are speedy, vertical players.
Once the Browns add vertical threats, they will go deep more often. Right now the talent isn't there for that.
And that's kind of my point.....Green Bay doesn't have a deep threat ala Smith. They have a bunch of big, physical receivers.
Jennings is more of a technician, in terms of his route running ability and hands. He has pretty average speed for a #1 WR (in the 4.5 range). Nelson is a Blackmon type. A big, physical receiver who can make catches in traffic / up in the air. Finley is a big, physical freak of a TE. James Jones is another bigger body who lacks top end speed but has a strong frame and the ability to go over the middle. Driver is simply a possession receiver at this point in his career.
Jackson is an anomaly among WCO teams but that has more to do with Vick's arm IMO than it has to do with wether or not you need those kind of guys in a true WCO system. Jackson is pretty average in short yardage situations because he's so small. That and McCoy doesn't have the arm of Vick (or Rodgers), so that certainly mitigates some of the effect of a deep threat in the Browns system.
I'm not saying the Browns couldn't use a fast WR but passing on someone like Blackmon in hopes of finding a DeSean Jackson type seems a little silly IMO. Blackmon looks like the prototypical outside receiver in a WCO. Great hands, physical, great over the middle, great in short yardage and the ability to make things happen in the red zone.
I don't think he's a perfect prospect but IMO he would make a huge impact on this offense. It's probably all moot though. The Browns are likely to win another game or two which will probably slot them too far down to have a chance at him.
Comparing Nelson to Blackmon is an insult to Nelson's speed.
I still think people are buying into the WCO stereotype way too much. It's not all about having YAC wideouts. The key is to have balance between vertical and underneath weapons.
And I am not suggesting the Browns should pass on Blackmon in hopes of finding a speedster. I am suggesting they pass on him because he isn't good enough to be a top ten pick, IMO. If he had better speed and explosiveness, I would be all over him.
Kendall Wright has something unique about him. He is the only WR that I have seen that can read a secondary and attack the holes. He does it all of the damn time, it's just hard to notice.
I don't think he's a perfect prospect but IMO he would make a huge impact on this offense. It's probably all moot though. The Browns are likely to win another game or two which will probably slot them too far down to have a chance at him.
This is my thought too. (A moot point as was green this past Draft)
I find it funny that some are questioning Blackmon's speed and yet I've seen him out run many a defender(s) for long gainers and scores ... He's a play maker!
Quote: Comparing Nelson to Blackmon is an insult to Nelson's speed.
So you think Blackmon is slower than the 4.62 Nelson clocked in his pro day?
His best time at the combine was 4.51.
I think you're severely underestimating Blackmon's speed.
He's not a burner but neither is Nelson.
I agree. Just because you're a long strider doesn't mean your not fast. Blackmon is PLENTY fast. He's going to be a star in the NFL. He's a better version of Dez Bryant. Very similar to him but better in every regard.
if we keep Hillis.. which I think we should.. and then get a guy like Isaiah Pead (Cincinnati) in the mid/later rounds, we could actually use one of our firsts for a top flight WR like Blackmon.
Quote: Sorry. Kendall Wright plays for Baylor, Jarius Wright plays for Arkansas, Juron Criner plays for Arizona and Brian Quick plays for Appalachian State.
Thanks, saves me a lot of time as I try to research these guys. I have seen Wright and admit I am a little intrigued by him.
Arkansas has 2 good Wr's and I can never seem to keep them straight. Kind of like the Boise receivers last year.
I think you have mentioned Criner before. His name is familiar but I can't say that I have seen him play.
I live near App St country but can't say that I know anything about Quick.
Quote: Comparing Nelson to Blackmon is an insult to Nelson's speed.
So you think Blackmon is slower than the 4.62 Nelson clocked in his pro day?
His best time at the combine was 4.51.
I think you're severely underestimating Blackmon's speed.
He's not a burner but neither is Nelson.
I agree. Just because you're a long strider doesn't mean your not fast. Blackmon is PLENTY fast. He's going to be a star in the NFL. He's a better version of Dez Bryant. Very similar to him but better in every regard.
It'd be hard to be a better physically gifted prospect than Bryant, but it'd be equally as hard to be as emotionally bat-chit-crazy as Bryant as well.
Note to self: Don't draft any WR's who have the last name "Bryant" because they are all freakin' Nutz!
Blackmon may not have quite the physical tools of Bryant, but he's not the headcase either.
And........OH!........I didn't know there was a draft thread here in the tailgate!
I wouldn't mind seeing DeCastro in a Browns uni. He's the guy I'm sort of hanging my hat on. Every time I watch Stanford he stands out, something hard to do when playing on the oline. Some people at the Browns bar today were discussing getting Kalil and the DeCastro with our two picks. Thoughts on Kalil moving to RT?
I was watching a Stanford game, I don't remember which one, and the announcer said that DeCastro was the best guard he'd ever seen in college football.
I'd say that's worth a first round pick, but just not for us.
Quote: I'm really not a big Blackmon fan. I don't think he's explosive enough or fast enough to be a stud in the NFL. I think he can be an Anquan Boldin type guy, but not elite.
And there's no way I'm drafting Boldin in the top ten.
Blackmon is absolutely the #1 receiver in the 2012 NFL draft. I'd compare him to Larry Fitzgerald. He's going to be a keeper and clearly a #1 receiving threat on any team he goes to and he'll be able to go deep too!
That being said, he probably won't be available and I'm not convinced that either Alshon Jeffry or Michael Floyd will be the next Andre Johnson or Calvin Johnson. Maybe others will think so, but I'm not one of them.
I'd like to see us get OL help, DeCastro might be the best guard to come out since Iupati and a can't miss selection. It'll be fun trying to figure out where he'd go in the draft and seeing if we could nab him and maybe Oklahoma State's Adcock in the third, although 2 years ago, SF got both Mike Iupati (17th pick) & Antony Davis (11th pick) in the first round. We see the success that they're having, two years in.
Quote: I wouldn't mind seeing DeCastro in a Browns uni. He's the guy I'm sort of hanging my hat on. Every time I watch Stanford he stands out, something hard to do when playing on the oline. Some people at the Browns bar today were discussing getting Kalil and the DeCastro with our two picks. Thoughts on Kalil moving to RT?
I've watched him several times this year. He looks like your typical great USC tackle, hehe. If we were running a power running system I probably wouldn't like him as much as a RT, but if we plan on running a purer version of the WCO, then I'd be fine with him. He doesn't look as powerful as I'd want out of my RT. I think he's more of a pure LT. I don't think I'd want to spend our very first pick on a RT, not when there are so many other impact guys out there as early as we'll be picking.
As for DeCastro, yeah, he would look great in Brown and Orange, wouldn't he.
If McCoy keeps getting better, and a team decides they just gotta have Barkley, I'd be happy moving down and acquiring more picks. If that were to happen, then I might not mind spending a couple of 1st rounders on offensive linemen, just so long as we can get a real playmaker with our first 1st rounder.
Quote: I was watching a Stanford game, I don't remember which one, and the announcer said that DeCastro was the best guard he'd ever seen in college football.
I'd say that's worth a first round pick, but just not for us.
DeCastro is a beast - second best lineman I've ever watched in College (after Joe Thomas). I'd absolutely take him in the first round (he's probably not top 10 because of position, but easily in the 10-15 range).
Quote: and a team decides they just gotta have Barkley, I'd be happy moving down and acquiring more picks.
Seems like Barkley will be gone before our pick.
Quite possibly, but remember what the back end of our schedule looks like. If the Fish keep on doing what they are doing, there's a very strong chance they'll pass us by.
This is WAY too early to predict accurately, but assuming the Colts take Luck, many of the teams in front of us (as of right now) already have QB's.
Vikings: Ponder Panthers: Newton Jags: Gabbert (yeah, I know, but still..) Rams: Bradford Cards: Kolb (yeah, I know, again, but still..)
That kinda leaves the Redskins.
So there's a chance it could play out that way. I'm not suggesting it will, just that it's a scenario where I'd be very interested in dropping down so that we could get a RT and maybe even an elite guard as well as another playmaker.
Yeah it is...And if we keep getting these MEANINGLESS wins we won't see any QB or Blackmon or Tackle...AGAIN we're finding ways to screw up the future of this team via the draft...
DEEP...You're absolutely right on this WCO thang...We don't have the weapons to be throwing downfield right now...And QB is one of em'...
I'm getting a sinking feeling we're gonna be stuck with McCoy again next year...He'll put one great game together here on out and we'll win one more because we catch a team that can't get out of their way that given Sunday...6-10 won't get us anywhere near within QB striking distance...
Blackmon will go to one of Carolina or the Rams...
Might as well just go Claiborne and Burfict and beef the D up...Cause we ain't outscoring anyone anytime soon...We're doing our best imitation of "Screwin' the Pooch" as far as a REAL QB is concerned...
Round 2 guys???
Jenkins DE (Mitchell will never cut it)
What do u guys know about these 2 Safeties???...Need one of those too...
Quote: if we keep Hillis.. which I think we should.. and then get a guy like Isaiah Pead (Cincinnati) in the mid/later rounds, we could actually use one of our firsts for a top flight WR like Blackmon.
IMO if Hillis leaves it's because he gets a better offer and decides to take it. We aren't simply going to tell Hillis he can walk. We'll tag him. Whether it is a 1st round tender or a 2rd round tender is up for debate.
I suppose if we tag him with the 2nd it is more or less telling him we wouldn't mind the pick. I think there is a good chance a few teams might be willing to do that. I doubt anybody would give up a 1st.
And beefing up the D is a quicker way to staying in games since the D is pretty close to being pretty darn good.
I wouldn't mind trading down if someone wanted to make a move as long as it isn't a giant drop like last year....say 4-7 slots to pick up a 2nd rounder and a 4th rounder.
If we do that we are looking at corners/safties, backers, O-line, and 2nd tier receivers and backs.
I'd actually be pretty good with that. Getting foundation type players isn't a bad thing.
Quote: if we keep Hillis.. which I think we should.. and then get a guy like Isaiah Pead (Cincinnati) in the mid/later rounds, we could actually use one of our firsts for a top flight WR like Blackmon.
IMO if Hillis leaves it's because he gets a better offer and decides to take it. We aren't simply going to tell Hillis he can walk. We'll tag him. Whether it is a 1st round tender or a 2rd round tender is up for debate.
I suppose if we tag him with the 2nd it is more or less telling him we wouldn't mind the pick. I think there is a good chance a few teams might be willing to do that. I doubt anybody would give up a 1st.
He'll walk. I doubt that any team even gives a 2nd for him. I don't think that they want him around whatsoever.
Quote: if we keep Hillis.. which I think we should.. and then get a guy like Isaiah Pead (Cincinnati) in the mid/later rounds, we could actually use one of our firsts for a top flight WR like Blackmon.
IMO if Hillis leaves it's because he gets a better offer and decides to take it. We aren't simply going to tell Hillis he can walk. We'll tag him. Whether it is a 1st round tender or a 2rd round tender is up for debate.
I suppose if we tag him with the 2nd it is more or less telling him we wouldn't mind the pick. I think there is a good chance a few teams might be willing to do that. I doubt anybody would give up a 1st.
He'll walk. I doubt that any team even gives a 2nd for him. I don't think that they want him around whatsoever.
IIRC in this CBA, Hills will be an UFA and the only tag available would be the franchise tag and I don't see us using that on Hillis. I think that he might have worn out his welcome with the Browns brass and will be playing else where next season. Don't get me wrong I would like to see us get him under contract, but I just don't think it will happen.
We may be the only team willing to give him a halfway decent contract offer. If he hits the FA market it really says a lot about Hillis and how little we think of him. Now unless he lights it up the next few weeks and shows us that he wasn't a total one hit wonder, Heckert may pack his bags for him.
Would love to see Richardson in a Browns uni because we need that franchise back and looks like Luck, Barkley and Jones could all be gone in the top 5. The fact Tebow and Moore are making their teams go maybe, is a good thing for us.
We may be in position to land Richardson and still get a Tannehill with the Atlanta pick. Colt works out then corner is the probably the best value position in that area. Dennard or Kirkpatrick. I just dont want to take a RT that high unless he is a Shawn Andrews/Marcus McNeil type talent and I havent seen that kind of talent out of this group. Its a terrific group just more 2nd round talent than first.
Quote: IIRC in this CBA, Hills will be an UFA and the only tag available would be the franchise tag and I don't see us using that on Hillis. I think that he might have worn out his welcome with the Browns brass and will be playing else where next season. Don't get me wrong I would like to see us get him under contract, but I just don't think it will happen.
You might be right about the CBA. I don't really know (or care too much) about it's particulars. However, he might be back if he's given his free agency and no other team wants to sign him because of the situation with the Browns this year.
Quote: DeCastro is the best guard prospect I've seen. He is unbelievable.
Kalil could be an incredible RT (or LT) but I think the Browns would be ill-advised to draft a RT with such a high pick. They need to add playmakers.
That's a good point. When you put it like that, Kalil doesn't seem like a wise investment with our first pick.
Seems like you're not as high on Blackmon and what you're saying is the same criticzism he receievd last season (along with his 3rd round grade) which is why he decided to go back to school. What playmaker would you like the Browns target then with the their first pick?
Quote: DeCastro is the best guard prospect I've seen. He is unbelievable.
Kalil could be an incredible RT (or LT) but I think the Browns would be ill-advised to draft a RT with such a high pick. They need to add playmakers.
That's a good point. When you put it like that, Kalil doesn't seem like a wise investment with our first pick.
Seems like you're not as high on Blackmon and what you're saying is the same criticzism he receievd last season (along with his 3rd round grade) which is why he decided to go back to school. What playmaker would you like the Browns target then with the their first pick?
Richardson.
And the Browns can't tender Hillis, as he is a UFA. All they can do is franchise him.
I can understand that, I'm just never a fan of using a 1st rounder on a RB. I know he's a stud but just the way I've always been. I was against drafting AP as well and I know he's turned out to be nothing short of amazing for Minn.
He can play both I think...he may need some tiem inside first but can be developed into an outside WR...think Mike Wallace (and no, Im not saying he IS him, just similar style)
And drafting a RB in the top 10 would be the dumbest thing we could do btw..I'd rather trade down again before I select a RB..and I dont care which one, they are not worth it....end of story
If Luck, Barkley, Jones, Blackmon, Kalil, and Claiborne are all gone by our pick and no one wants to trade up with us, who would you pick instead of Richardson?
Quote: If Luck, Barkley, Jones, Blackmon, Kalil, and Claiborne are all gone by our pick and no one wants to trade up with us, who would you pick instead of Richardson?
Quentin Coples.. DE out of North Carolina? Either him or maybe Alshon Jeffries - WR - South Carolina. I'd prefer Coples.
I don't have a great feel for DeCastro. Haven't paid enough attention to him. Top ten for an OG though. How high did Hutchinson go? 12? Hutch is probably the best OG in the past 15-20 years. Will DeCastro be that good?
I don't see how we could pass on a player who could be special like Richardson (presuming we don't resign Hillis). We always say that we don't have any playmakers. Well here is our chance to get one.
