Glazer: Rams, Redskins strike deal for No. 2 pick Posted by Mike Florio on March 9, 2012, 10:29 PM EST The Dolphins had better offer Peyton Manning more money, because their Plan B has now evaporated.
Jay Glazer of FOX Sports reports that the Rams and the Redskins have agreed to terms on a deal that will send the second overall pick in the 2012 draft to Washington. The Redskins undoubtedly will pick quarterback Robert Griffin III. (Or, at the very worst, Andrew Luck.)
Glazer says that the team will swap first-round picks in 2012, with St. Louis taking the No. 6 pick. The Rams also get two future first-round picks and additional selections, one of which is believed to be a second-rounder.
Quote: Glazer: Rams, Redskins strike deal for No. 2 pick Posted by Mike Florio on March 9, 2012, 10:29 PM EST The Dolphins had better offer Peyton Manning more money, because their Plan B has now evaporated.
Jay Glazer of FOX Sports reports that the Rams and the Redskins have agreed to terms on a deal that will send the second overall pick in the 2012 draft to Washington. The Redskins undoubtedly will pick quarterback Robert Griffin III. (Or, at the very worst, Andrew Luck.)
Glazer says that the team will swap first-round picks in 2012, with St. Louis taking the No. 6 pick. The Rams also get two future first-round picks and additional selections, one of which is believed to be a second-rounder.
Wow, do I feel relieved . . . Just knowing RG3 is taken, and he's off our radar altogether . . . If he'd fallen to us at 4 & H&H took him, I wouldn't have minded, but all this talk of us trading up made me want to puke.
Way to go, Rams!
I'm still thinking Claiborne. But get back to me in an hour . . .
If we were in fact involved with trade talks, I'd have loved to be a fly on the wall when the Rams called back asking if we'd match. I'm sure there was probably lots of laughter. Even if he does pan out, not having a 1st for the next 2 years hurts.
Quote: If we were in fact involved with trade talks, I'd have loved to be a fly on the wall when the Rams called back asking if we'd match. I'm sure there was probably lots of laughter. Even if he does pan out, not having a 1st for the next 2 years hurts.
Here's the thing. If this report is true - St. Louis will have Washington's first rounders in 2013 and 2014. They'll have two first rounders in back-to-back years. With the way that the Redskins manage to kill themselves, the Rams could have a top 5 or top 10 pick even if they make the playoffs!
If we were in fact involved with trade talks, I'd have loved to be a fly on the wall when the Rams called back asking if we'd match. I'm sure there was probably lots of laughter.
I think at that point Shurmur says to Fisher, " I believe Mike has the final say here." Shurmur reaches the phone out to Holmgren and he bends over and rips a rather large explosion of bodily gases.
Quote: If we were in fact involved with trade talks, I'd have loved to be a fly on the wall when the Rams called back asking if we'd match. I'm sure there was probably lots of laughter. Even if he does pan out, not having a 1st for the next 2 years hurts.
It hurts but will be worth it if he really pans out. Heck we wasted a future First for Quinn.. Id gave TWO for RGIII
Man, have to wonder what Griffin thinks about this. Stick him on a team with a poor O-line and mediocre targets, a couple of "guys" at RB, then take away a second rounder and the next two firsts? Good luck, Griffin.
Quote: The Rams will trade up to 3 and take Blackmon. We get a CB or or Running back with a bum knee.. Oh shoot .. we have one of those already.
I wouldn't be complaining if I was sitting at #4 and the best LT in the draft (and 2nd best overall by most ratings), and the best CB in the draft (and the best CB in some time) are both sitting there in front of me.
I dont want to spend the 4th overall pick for a right tackle and we have NO offense. Unless the CB can intercept two balls a game for TD's it doesn't help us score points.
I would have taken RG3 at 4, but did not want to trade this much, or much at all, to get to 2 and take him.
I believe it will be Blackmon or Claiborne, if we stay at 4. Trade down seems more likely now, but I would be happy with either or those two, or the trade down. Maybe we can get Stl to pony up one of those 'additional' firsts to move up to 4, haha.
Quote: I dont want to spend the 4th overall pick for a right tackle and we have NO offense. Unless the CB can intercept two balls a game for TD's it doesn't help us score points.
Quote: I dont want to spend the 4th overall pick for a right tackle and we have NO offense. Unless the CB can intercept two balls a game for TD's it doesn't help us score points.
But it does help in trying to prevent the other team from scoring them. We can try to go for a perfect 0-0-16 season.
Quote: Man, have to wonder what Griffin thinks about this. Stick him on a team with a poor O-line and mediocre targets, a couple of "guys" at RB, then take away a second rounder and the next two firsts? Good luck, Griffin.
Well if he looked at it THAT way, he'd at least START OUT thinking he's a Brown . . .
I would have taken RG3 at 4, but did not want to trade this much, or much at all, to get to 2 and take him.
I believe it will be Blackmon or Claiborne, if we stay at 4. Trade down seems more likely now, but I would be happy with either or those two, or the trade down. Maybe we can get Stl to pony up one of those 'additional' firsts to move up to 4, haha.
If that espn story is right and Cle would have given 3 1sts plus a 2 I don't understand why st Louis didn't do it? Cle picks wee higher? Shanhan friendship?
If we refused to give up pick 22 this year, I highly doubt we would have offered the 2013 and 2014 first rounders. That was never going to happen. It isn't in Holmgren's nor Heckert's nature to do a trade like that. Hell we may have driven up the price just to get the Rams enough to trade up with us. It happens. Teams been doing it to the RAiders forever lol.
Quote: The Cleveland Browns had stepped up their efforts to try to acquire the No. 2 pick in recent days, going so far as to offer at least three No. 1 picks to the Rams and possibly even the second-round pick, according to one source familiar with the deal. Cleveland sensed it was going to get the deal done, only to be informed that St. Louis planned to deal the coveted No. 2 pick to the Redskins.
Quote: If that espn story is right and Cle would have given 3 1sts plus a 2 I don't understand why st Louis didn't do it? Cle picks wee higher? Shanhan friendship?
The only way that makes sense is if we wouldn't part with #22.
Quote: The Cleveland Browns had stepped up their efforts to try to acquire the No. 2 pick in recent days, going so far as to offer at least three No. 1 picks to the Rams and possibly even the second-round pick, according to one source familiar with the deal. Cleveland sensed it was going to get the deal done, only to be informed that St. Louis planned to deal the coveted No. 2 pick to the Redskins.
I'm glad we didn't throw too much into the pot for one unknown guy. However, if he becomes great, that's just one more QB we missed.
As of tonight, I think I'm ok with this. Use the 4 + 22 on good talent (WR and CB) and see what happens with Manning to Arizona (I think he'll go there and then they'll cut Kolb).
Three firsts and possibly a 2nd? That's very high for someone not named Andrew Luck.
That's what I was willing to give for Luck, but not for RG3. Now, I've seen a lot more of RG3 than Andrew Luck, but it's relieving that we didn't give up something ridiculous like this.
Worst comes to worse, hold off on drafting a QB this draft. Let's re-sign our guys (Patterson, Adams, Hillis). I wonder when Steinbach's salary will come in to effect. I'd like to see how he looks, but I think he'll be cut too, and that's okay, with a decent RT I think that Lavauo and Pinkston will do just fine. Cutting Steinbach should give us no reason not to sign our other free agents. Patterson and Adams were both significant contributors last season. Ward is great, but his injury history (college and last year) make me nervous. Adams is a vet, played on the team as long as anyone but Phil Dawson. He's gotten better every season.
Patterson brought a lot to the team last year, he's young and fiesty. I like the guy, and may be what I like the most is that he had such a bad reputation coming from Philly (hence why I wrote him off early on, and found myself pleasantly surprised)
I don't think Colt is a franchise QB, but I don't want to force a change just to force a change. I do think there's plenty of room for improvement for Colt, and I expect he'll be a much better player next season. People have really written him off, but I do think he was put in a very difficult situation last year. No OTA's, first year in WCO/new coaches (who he didn't get to work with until post-NFL strike), best receiver was Greg Little (rookie raw receiver who missed his junior season.......), Peyton Hillis injured most of the year. None of this helped him. Do I think Colt will become Drew Brees? No. But I don't think Colt as our QB next year would be that bad and I would like to see what kind of progress he makes
Quote: The Cleveland Browns had stepped up their efforts to try to acquire the No. 2 pick in recent days, going so far as to offer at least three No. 1 picks to the Rams and possibly even the second-round pick, according to one source familiar with the deal. Cleveland sensed it was going to get the deal done, only to be informed that St. Louis planned to deal the coveted No. 2 pick to the Redskins.
The Redskins had to have offered more than 3 ones and a 2 then ....... because our 1st would be far superior than their 1st ....... and if the 2 deals were equal, then we would have had the better offer.
Who knows though.
I almost give up on us ever getting any better. The NFL officially sucks. I cannot post my real thoughts without getting thrown off the boards.
A kid who stares down his WRs and has what a grand total of 13 starts?? Yeah Mour I'm jonesing to get another 1st round bust.
I hope we stay with Colt at this point......not because I think he's the answer, but because I don't want to waste resources on redundant crap like Tannyhill/Flynn. Build up the team and make a move next year to get our guy (and we won't be bidding against the crazy uncle next year either).
I just read some insider info that said the Brown's refused the Rams overtures of offering three 1st round selections or both in 2012 and additional in 2012 and 2013.
I just don't think the interest was there on our end. I think you are hearing the rumors they want us to hear as far as what we offered.
Agreed. If we would have offered 3 1sts we would have had him. My guess is we offered the 4 and 22, and that is why the Skins were forced to offer the 3 1sts.
If we were willing to offer 3 1st round picks I doubt a 2nd rounder would have been a deal breaker.
Quote: I just read some insider info that said the Brown's refused the Rams overtures of offering three 1st round selections or both in 2012 and additional in 2012 and 2013.
I just don't think the interest was there on our end. I think you are hearing the rumors they want us to hear as far as what we offered.
Whatever the case, I'm happy we didn't give that up. Heckert has done well with his picks, and I've been very happy with our last two drafts.
I want this organization to have time, or at least Heckert to have his time to keep on drafting and putting together some solid talent.
My theory was, if we want RG3, my max is right around that Giants San Diego deal, two firsts, a third, and a five.
Quote: Forgive me for being cynical... what if Glazer's wrong?
He rarely is. However, the league year doesn't officially start until Tuesday, so another team, possibly us, could come in and offer more and Stl could back out of this deal and take the new offer. It would be a jerk move, to go back on your word to another team, but gotta take the better offer, in most cases. I don't see that happening though.
Tuesday is when this will become official, 4pm Eastern (iirc). So ytown, and any others, you have a sliver of hope until then.
Another thought/question...
IF (big IF), Stl wanted to get our #4 pick, what would you ask for in return?
I would want the 2nd rounder they got from wash, and a 1st. I said this in another thread, if they tried to fleece us to move up 2 spots (granted for a QB) we should try to do the same for them to move up 2 spots (6 to 4).
Quote: This damn team better show some massive improvement this year.
Honest to God, I can't take much more crappy football.
Did you want to trade three firsts to get him? I mean; to me, it looks like the Redskins went overboard.
I mean, if that's what we're betting against, we can't just get him. Understand you're frustrated, but I think we should be patient. I like this organization and coaching staff more than I liked our past groups. Continuity is important.
Quote:
and in other news Jim Irsay just tweeted, "I could have got what?"!
This quickly made me check out Irsay's twitter. For those who are interested, this is not true, lol. He said no such thing
OK, this front office is much better ..... and they've brought us 5-11 and 4-12 the past 2 years.
Sooner or later "great front office" has to translate to the field. Sooner or later they have to do something beyond acquiring a player here or there, they have to win games.
Quote: OK, this front office is much better ..... and they've brought us 5-11 and 4-12 the past 2 years.
Sooner or later "great front office" has to translate to the field. Sooner or later they have to do something beyond acquiring a player here or there, they have to win games.
I agree with this somewhat. I do think the FO is the best we've had since the return. But we do need to see it paying off sooner rather than later.
The problem is you need two main ingredients to win in the NFL. A bonafide QB and a bonafide coach. We have neither.
Quote: OK, this front office is much better ..... and they've brought us 5-11 and 4-12 the past 2 years.
Sooner or later "great front office" has to translate to the field. Sooner or later they have to do something beyond acquiring a player here or there, they have to win games.
I think it is fair to expect 6-8 wins in year 2 of this system and year three of the rebuild. Next year I expect Playoffs or pushing for a Wild Card. After Four years I fully expect this team to be a perennial Playoff contenders and challenging for division titles yearly.
Quote: OK, this front office is much better ..... and they've brought us 5-11 and 4-12 the past 2 years.
Sooner or later "great front office" has to translate to the field. Sooner or later they have to do something beyond acquiring a player here or there, they have to win games.
If they can start giving our offense a boost on par w/ the boost they've given our defense, I'll regain quite a bit of hope . . .
Quote: OK, this front office is much better ..... and they've brought us 5-11 and 4-12 the past 2 years.
Sooner or later "great front office" has to translate to the field. Sooner or later they have to do something beyond acquiring a player here or there, they have to win games.
Quote: IF (big IF), Stl wanted to get our #4 pick, what would you ask for in return?
I would want the 2nd rounder they got from wash, and a 1st. I said this in another thread, if they tried to fleece us to move up 2 spots (granted for a QB) we should try to do the same for them to move up 2 spots (6 to 4).
I'd demand the 2nd rounder they got from Washington this year, their own 2nd rounder this year and the 2014 first rounder they got from Washington.
Heckert and Holmgren are living off their past success in Philly and GB/Seattle. lets not forget,the Browns are 9-23 the past 2 years and are facing a killer schedule this season
Quote: IF (big IF), Stl wanted to get our #4 pick, what would you ask for in return?
I would want the 2nd rounder they got from wash, and a 1st. I said this in another thread, if they tried to fleece us to move up 2 spots (granted for a QB) we should try to do the same for them to move up 2 spots (6 to 4).
I'd demand the 2nd rounder they got from Washington this year, their own 2nd rounder this year and the 2014 first rounder they got from Washington.
If you want to move up from 6 in a 5 player draft, then that's the price you should have to pay...
After all this, if we let them move back up to 4 for a bunch of mid round picks, I may cry...
Quote: OK, this front office is much better ..... and they've brought us 5-11 and 4-12 the past 2 years.
Sooner or later "great front office" has to translate to the field. Sooner or later they have to do something beyond acquiring a player here or there, they have to win games.
We need to get a damn quarterback period.
Yep.
Look at us competing for free agent WRs.
"Hers's a nice contract offer, and we'd really love to have you join us. We think you're an up and coming WR who is a superstar in the making."
"Who's your QB?"
"Colt McCoy"
"Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha ..... no really ......."
"Colt McCoy. We think that he's poised for a breakout year."
"See ya, I don't want to be y'all's next whipping boy."
Peter king is saying no team in NFL history has ever traded 3 first round picks before ... I can't think of any and glad we weren't the ones to do it....especially with the new rookie wage scale
Just to let you guys know, the redskins didn't trade 3 first round picks. They will swap this year's first round picks and give the Rams 2 first round picks and a 2nd.
They are giving up 2 first round picks and a 2nd. Not 3....
I don't see this front office settling for a cobble of mid-round picks to move up from 6 to 4.
I think they would demand (in light of what the Rams received from Washington) would indeed be something akin to what I listed. The two 2nd rounders and a future (2 years out) first rounder. I think I could live with that trade back with the Rams.
Imagine the #6, #22, #33, #37, #39! That's 5 picks in the top 40 of the draft! I'd take that alone to move back from #4 to #6.
Quote: Just to let you guys know, the redskins didn't trade 3 first round picks. They will swap this year's first round picks and give the Rams 2 first round picks and a 2nd.
They are giving up 2 first round picks and a 2nd. Not 3....
From the first post in this thread . . .
"Glazer says that the team will swap first-round picks in 2012, with St. Louis taking the No. 6 pick. The Rams also get two future first-round picks and additional selections, one of which is believed to be a second-rounder."
There could be even more than the swap, 2 firsts, and the second . . .
And just the swap and the 2 firsts is way too much in my book . . .l
Quote: Just to let you guys know, the redskins didn't trade 3 first round picks. They will swap this year's first round picks and give the Rams 2 first round picks and a 2nd.
They are giving up 2 first round picks and a 2nd. Not 3....
I've seen some bad first posts before but that is a shameful entrance to the board.
Starts off condescending then proceeds to demonstrate no understanding of basic English or elementary math. Swap means trade. Swapping this year and two future years ... Equals 3.
Quote: Just to let you guys know, the redskins didn't trade 3 first round picks. They will swap this year's first round picks and give the Rams 2 first round picks and a 2nd.
They are giving up 2 first round picks and a 2nd. Not 3....
That #39 pick overall is almost like a first rounder. Even at that, it is still 3 first round picks. This year's first, next years first, and the following year's first rounders, plus the second this year! That's insane! The Rams robbed the Redskins!
I genuinely liked RGIII over Barkley. I think Bakrley will be yet another Socal QB who flops the NFL. I should have known better the football gods would smite me yet again. Why couldn't my dad be anything other than a Browns fan....
Book it we're getting Matt "Noodle Arm" Flynn or Ryan "Small Hands" Tannehill.
I imagine there are many in Washington who feel the same way right now
I bet Washington is celebrating right now, and this probably ensures Obama's re-election. (just th throw in everyone's other favorite topic ...... and to show that I haven't totally lost my sense of humor ...... just that it's taken a morbid, graveyard kind of turn)
Quote: The Cleveland Browns had stepped up their efforts to try to acquire the No. 2 pick in recent days, going so far as to offer at least three No. 1 picks to the Rams and possibly even the second-round pick, according to one source familiar with the deal. Cleveland sensed it was going to get the deal done, only to be informed that St. Louis planned to deal the coveted No. 2 pick to the Redskins.
This doesn't make any sense. So we offered the same picks, but they took the Redskins deal instead? If that is true something fishy is going on.
I think that the Redskins probably leaked this little tidbit to show their fans that they had to offer what they did.
The league should make future first round picks, or any draft picks, more than 24 months in the future, unable to be traded.
For the record, I'm not too Happy or too Sad about this news.
There are still a dirth of quarterbacks out there.. ( is dirth a word?) There's alot of QB's out there alot alot alot of them,
If you shake the dice, throw them down and put 32 musical chairs of starting QB spots on NFL teams, these guys still don't have a place to be. Peyton Manning is going to be somewher, Flynn is going to be somewhere and if Manning goes to KC, then Cassell will have to go somewhere, and Orton started a whole year for Cassell because he was injured, and Kolb is going somewhere and the Raiders won't have both Campbell and Carson Palmer.
Oh well!, Manning to Miami, Flynn to Seattle, and Herman Cain to Cleveland.
I understand you're upset because you wanted RG3 because you believe he's going to be a good QB.
But Trading all those picks doesn't guarantee that..
Part of me thinks he's going to fail now, not because they traded 3 firsts (even though according to some, 1st round picks are the ONLY way a team can aquire talent)
I don't think anyone, coach or player, can succeed in the Daniel Snyder lead Washington Redskins organization...
And now you add all of the pressure of being the guy they traded 3 1st round picks for.. and It's downhill from here...
But, while everyone will be like "see told ya so!" I won't, because I don't think he ever really had a chance to begin with...
I think that they will go sign a WR, and a couple of other free agent pieces, maybe even Peyton Hillis who would be a good fit there, and be off to the races. (although they reportedly like Helu, who showed a lot as a rookie)
Washington was average or above in almost every offensive and defensive category. They also get Hightower back.and he's a solid RB. They have Moss and Gaffney, both average WRs at least. This is the right year to go find a upper level WR in free agency, and they now have a great selling point. They'll get Fred Davis back from suspension, and Chris Cooley back from IR at TE. They also will have Trent Williams back.
They are ready for a QB to step in, while adding a few key pieces in free agency.
I think that they'll win at least 7 games next year, and then be off to the races.
Now that I thought about it... With the fact that the trade can't actually happen until Tuesday, I wonder if this is a PR test by Washington?
Put out the trade ow, and see how your fanbase reacts, and if it's anything like YT said their Message Board is, you can go through with it without the fear of fan revolt...
I doubt teams base decisions solely on fan reaction, but you need a fan base for a team to survive, and if they put this out now, and the entire fan base threw their arms up and screamed, they could then change their minds before tuesday...
Saw this while at work and couldn't believe it. Sure, we all had opinions of what it'd take to get Griffin, who was interested, and when it'd happen, but did any of us really see it happening just like this? I can't think of anyone who said it would. I was absolutely certain it'd take our two firsts, and was very sure we'd have to throw in another pick. I had no idea that in addition to that extra pick, it would cost us yet ANOTHER first rounder.
Three. First. Round. Picks. (nevermind whatever the other pick or picks are).
Well, I wanted to see Griffin III as a Brown, but that's more than I would have wanted to pay. Snyder always gets his man, even when he has to sell his mother's eternal soul to do it.
Ok, not gonna dwell on what could have been. There'll be time for that in five seasons. Time to focus on the facts:
1) Any belief that Heckert and Holmgren don't believe in 1st round QB's has been debunked. 2) Any belief that Heckert and Holmgren feel that McCoy is the future has been debunked. 3) At the absolute least we are going to have our choice of players which include but aren't limited to the best LT prospect to come along in years, the best RB prospect to come along since Peterson, a very safe bet at WR or a very safe bet at CB. 4) We have two first-round selections if we don't make a move and three of the top 37 picks in this draft. 5) We could have more than three of the top 37 picks in this draft if we are willing to slide back. 6) Dan Snyder is about to become the greatest "all-in" gambler in history, or the biggest punchline in history.
So, I feel less confident about Claiborne than I do any of the rest. I'd be perfectly content taking Kalil and making him play right tackle. I'd be perfectly content taking Richardson and forgetting about the RB position for the next 8 years. I'd be perfectly content taking Blackmon and forgetting about the #1 receiver position for the next 8 seasons. I'd even be perfectly content trading down with the Rams and going with the next tier of players, but wouldn't do it for anything less than one of their newly acquired #1 picks.
I'm somewhat deflated that we have lost out on Griffin, but in terms of where we now stand, it's hard to be anything but excited.
So how about some predictions...
There's no way in Hell the Vikings will pass on Kalil. Charlie freakin' Johnson? Yeah, right.
So that's gonna leave us with Blackmon, Richardson, Claiborne, or a trade. Are any of those guys so exciting that another team is gonna be willing to give us a ransom to drop further down the draft? I don't really think so, but there is one exception. The key is Brandon freakin' Lloyd. If the Rams lose him and can't acquire a big-name free agent, they just may be willing to trade us a future #1 so they can get Blackmon.
I think Blackmon is our guy with Richardson #2 and Claiborne #3. If we trade down, well, it all depends on where we land.
The only slam-dunk winner today is the Rams. For a bunch of losers, they sure feel like winners today...
Quote: 1) Any belief that Heckert and Holmgren don't believe in 1st round QB's has been debunked. 2) Any belief that Heckert and Holmgren feel that McCoy is the future has been debunked.
Just want to say - this all depends on the rumor of us being that interested - how do we know that St. Louis wasn't just making that up to increase the price for Washington? Certainly if we weren't interested, the Rams were going to tell as media members as possible that we were.
Not saying it's not true - but at this point I only trust interest that I see come out in actual deals -- not even 100% trusting this one until the trade is actually made.
Well, Django (and YTown among others), looks like I was right about the trade getting done well before the draft. Let's just all thank God that we didn't outbid Washington here.
I think Minny takes Kalil, but if not, we better. You simply do not pass on a tackle prospect of his caliber (protects the right side and is excellent insurance if god forbid something happens on the other side) with the new rookie wage scale.
To address your Colt point, all I think this shows is that H/H liked RGIII's potential more than Colt's. I don't think it means they think Colt is destined to be pure garbage. That being said, maybe if the Donks get Manning, we can get TEBOW!!!!
Quote: I think Minny takes Kalil, but if not, we better. You simply do not pass on a tackle prospect of his caliber (protects the right side and is excellent insurance if god forbid something happens on the other side) with the new rookie wage scale.
At last minute, Browns tried and failed to trade for Rams’ pick Posted by Michael David Smith on March 10, 2012, 7:01 AM EST Griffin III of Baylor University looks for a receiver during NCAA football game against Huskies in San Antonio Reuters
Although the Browns tried to avoid publicly tipping their hand about trading up to the second overall pick, they were interested: And they attempted to work a deal out with the Rams on Friday night, only to have the Redskins beat them to the punch.
ESPN’s Adam Schefter reports that before the Redskins-Rams deal was reported, the Browns tried to make a last-minute push to acquire the Rams’ No. 2 overall pick for themselves. But the Browns weren’t able to get it done.
The fact that the Browns were in the mix indicates that they do have an interest in drafting someone to push Colt McCoy aside and become the franchise quarterback. The only question, now that we know they won’t get Andrew Luck or Robert Griffin III, is whether the Browns are still looking to draft a quarterback.
If they are, their focus would then be on Texas A&M quarterback Ryan Tannehill. Browns head coach Pat Shurmur talked up Tannehill recently, and if the Browns like Tannehill as much as Shurmur suggested they do, they could take him with the fourth overall pick.
The Browns may also decide to take care of the quarterback position before the draft by signing a free agent. They’re not in the Peyton Manning sweepstakes, but Matt Flynn is a possibility.
Or the Browns could be ready willing to give McCoy another year. All we know for sure is they won’t be drafting Griffin, after the Redskins beat them to him. PFT
Quote: Peter king is saying no team in NFL history has ever traded 3 first round picks before ... I can't think of any and glad we weren't the ones to do it....especially with the new rookie wage scale
This is ticking me off..I surely won't get mad at the Browns for giving up next years #1 and another one??? But it should tell all McCoy fans they know they can't roll with him another year..now I hope RG busts out..yep that's the way I am today..
Quote: I understand you're upset because you wanted RG3 because you believe he's going to be a good QB.
But Trading all those picks doesn't guarantee that..
Part of me thinks he's going to fail now, not because they traded 3 firsts (even though according to some, 1st round picks are the ONLY way a team can aquire talent)
I don't think anyone, coach or player, can succeed in the Daniel Snyder lead Washington Redskins organization...
And now you add all of the pressure of being the guy they traded 3 1st round picks for.. and It's downhill from here...
But, while everyone will be like "see told ya so!" I won't, because I don't think he ever really had a chance to begin with...
I get that sense too. Any QB that comes to the Browns would be coming into a bad situation. The situation is even worse in Washington. I didn't want RG3 but I'm having some sympathy for the guy. Just his bad luck to be going into even a worse situation than that which he'd face if he came here.
Just how interested the Browns were in a trade can be debated until the cows come home and we won't know if that interest was serious or used to drive the Redskins bid higher.
Doesn't matter now...
This part of the story, become the story looking forward...
The fact that the Browns were in the mix indicates that they do have an interest in drafting someone to push Colt McCoy aside and become the franchise quarterback. The only question, now that we know they won’t get Andrew Luck or Robert Griffin III, is whether the Browns are still looking to draft a quarterback.
If they are, their focus would then be on Texas A&M quarterback Ryan Tannehill. Browns head coach Pat Shurmur talked up Tannehill recently, and if the Browns like Tannehill as much as Shurmur suggested they do, they could take him with the fourth overall pick.
The Browns may also decide to take care of the quarterback position before the draft by signing a free agent. They’re not in the Peyton Manning sweepstakes, but Matt Flynn is a possibility.
Or the Browns could be ready willing to give McCoy another year. All we know for sure is they won’t be drafting Griffin, after the Redskins beat them to him. web page
Quote: ESPN’s Adam Schefter reports that before the Redskins-Rams deal was reported, the Browns tried to make a last-minute push to acquire the Rams’ No. 2 overall pick for themselves. But the Browns weren’t able to get it done.
Is this the same Adam Schefter that repported that Hillis was going to retire and head into the CIA????
Quote: ESPN’s Adam Schefter reports that before the Redskins-Rams deal was reported, the Browns tried to make a last-minute push to acquire the Rams’ No. 2 overall pick for themselves. But the Browns weren’t able to get it done.
Is this the same Adam Schefter that repported that Hillis was going to retire and head into the CIA????
Adam is nothing more than a gossip monger anymore. When he was with NFLN, he seemed to have connections. I think when Jay broke the story that the browns and phins inquired and the Skins raised their offer with a lets finish this up now proposal, Schefter had to one up him and come in with details, whether true or not. Now to be fair Adam has ties to the skins and he very well could have gotten all his info from Snyder.
I have felt all along that Tannehill was the target and I have not seen or heard one thing to change that. I felt we would try to trade down and take him but with what the Skins gave up, probably better off taking him where we are.
I think it was Wednesday when Jason Laconfora said that the Browns were intrigued by RG3 but were uncertain about him for this offense but they had their eye on Tannehill. Anyway we will all find out soon enough.
For the love of everything Brown and Orange I hope they don't go after Tannehill. I'm no expert but I've watched everything I can find on him... games, highlights, combine stuff and I'm just totally underwhelmed. There's such a HUGE drop off in talent from Luck & RG3 to Tannehill it's not even funny. Is he really appreciably any better than Colt? I don't see it. I see a permanent back up.
At this point personally I think our best option is to stock the cupboard and give Colt another crack at it. I think know how its going to turn out but if can muster 7 wins and somehow have 2 firsts again next year im going to feel much better about "mortgaging our future". Get the WR, the RT, another RB, another DL in the 1st 3 rounds and see if somehow we can coax someone into giving us their 1st or 2nd next year.
Quote: Adam is nothing more than a gossip monger anymore.
Oh I agree completely...He is a twitter journalist.....he is incredibly irresponsible in the way he reports his stories as he just wants to get the stories out there as fast as possible and damn the consequences as long as it gets his name out there as the first to report it....as if he has the "in" story.
The same could be said with Jamison Hensley, the AFC North Blogger for ESPN...he has virtually no clue about what the Browns FO truly thinks or wants to do and is a very lazy journalist and pumps out a crapload of articles (pun intended) stating his opinion as fact when in reality he doesn't know a single thing about the team he is reporting on. And they are reports for the most part with some opinion pieces thrown in. Now, granted it is a "blog" but it is presented as viable news source and not just as some editorials. And even in an editorial, it still should be noted that the article is the view of the author and not elicit fact. However the complete lack of knowledge this person shows of the teams he is reporting on is blatantly apparant...
And yet millions of people read this person taking his words as absolute fact, grossly skewing the perception of what is really going on. And in the extreme we get people like YTown who look like they are going to slit their wrists because we are not going to get RGIII....and I am not saying YTown built his opinions and perception on his articles and such...I am taking a jab at his over reaction to the QB situation...but that is just a difference of opinion....I am however saying that perception is reality and the irresponsible media is creating the worst possible perceptions that couldn't be further from the actual truth and it is not doing the fans any good. The only ones profiting is the media...They profit from the hysteria and or ignorance of us people who fall for the world they present us with.
If we draft Tannehill at 4 then we deserve the continued losing that will certainly follow from drafting such an underwhelming player that damn high.
If we want a QB at this point, the only option left is to go after Weeden. He's not a perfect solution, but he's better than the other options, especially Tannehill.
Like I said though, the Rams will probably screw us again by trading the #34 pick to someone else who wants Weeden.
#4 for a QB with a good arm, good footwork, decent mechanics, pro system, great pocket presence, NFL size, athleticism and to quote casserly is terrific going through his progressions.
Or we could have spent 3 firsts and a 2nd well maybe two 2nds to get a QB with a good arm, horrible footwork, horrible mechanics, from a 1 read shotgun spread offense, good pocket presence, tremendous athleticism.
No wonder you thought Mangini was doing a good job.
Ok, not gonna dwell on what could have been. There'll be time for that in five seasons. Time to focus on the facts:
1) Any belief that Heckert and Holmgren don't believe in 1st round QB's has been debunked. 2) Any belief that Heckert and Holmgren feel that McCoy is the future has been debunked. 3) At the absolute least we are going to have our choice of players which include but aren't limited to the best LT prospect to come along in years, the best RB prospect to come along since Peterson, a very safe bet at WR or a very safe bet at CB. 4) We have two first-round selections if we don't make a move and three of the top 37 picks in this draft. 5) We could have more than three of the top 37 picks in this draft if we are willing to slide back. 6) Dan Snyder is about to become the greatest "all-in" gambler in history, or the biggest punchline in history.
7. Cleveland will not acquire a franchise QB or anything close to one...again.
WINNERS: The Rams: Obviously, the Rams made out like bandits pulling in an unprecedented haul to move down four spots in the draft. Trading away #2 and getting #6, a 2013 first, a 2014 first, an unchronicled 2nd round pick, and an additional pick or additional picks is an absolute no-brainer. I expect those firsts they got to be high picks as the Redskins seem to always find a way to be bad. Turns out Jeff Fisher's bravado was right. This is a franchise-defining moment.
Mike Shanahan: Rumors have been swirling about Shanahan running out of rope with Snyder after two lackluster years, going 11-21 and cellar-dwelling in the NFC East. By getting Griffin, he hopes he's fixed the team's number one weakness, an electrifying, playmaking QB. It was generally discussed that Shanahan had three choices: Manning, Griffin, or Unemployment. If Griffin stars, Shanahan keeps his job and has a luxury most coaches don't. If he flops and Shanny is fired, the future picks being lost are meaningless to him. After Manning brushed off the 'Skins' advances, Shanahan had no option but to acquire Griffin at all costs.
Andrew Luck: How is it that the most-talked about QB in the draft is the one expected to go second? The best thing that has happened to Andrew Luck in this entire draft process has been Robert Griffin. The drama surrounding where Griffin would go has overshadowed any media buildup around what expectations for Luck will be, despite him being regarded as the best QB prospect since the guy he's replacing came out of college.
LOSERS: Cleveland Browns: After appearing to be in the driver's seat to acquire Griffin, they are now back to what they had previously at QB: a bunch of guys. What is available in the rest of the draft is another bunch of guys. They have to decide if they want to burn a round 1 or 2 pick on a QB prospect who isn't special, or give Colt McCoy an abundance of talent around him to remove any remaining question marks about the reasons for his lack of success and production.
Robert Griffin: Griffin is now all but locked in to what has been a very dysfunctional fanchise for most of his life. There will be tremendous pressure for him to produce immediately, and perhaps without the necessary supporting cast. It will be difficult for him to live up to the expectations that will be placed on him. He's probably got more riding on NFL free agency than anyone else.
Washington Redskins: If ever there was an appropriate application of the term "mortgaging the future," the Redskins have just demonstrated it. They currently lack talent at skill positions and now they lack premium draft picks to fill those positions for the next few years. They have no good WRs under 30 but hope Leonard Hankerson can develop into one. Their OL play has been dodgy and injury-plagued. They've got nothing but question marks and HGH at safety in a division with teams that like to go deep. Skins fans better hope RGIII brings his Superman socks, because he's going to have to do a lot of this on his own. They do have a whole bunch of cap room, but Free Agency isn't as sure a thing as some make it out to be... Washington still has to shake it's image of being unstable for people to want to play there. See: Peyton Manning.
Kendall Wright: I had a sneaking suspicion when track star Kendall Wright ran one of the slowest 40s for wideouts at the combine at 4.61 that he was tanking. I think he and Griffin were hoping to be teamed back up together and the only way that was going to happen would be him falling to 22. Now his stock has sunk a bit after being talked about as a potential target as high as 12 to Seattle pre-combine. He's got to re-establish his true speed in the eyes of clubs if he wants to recover his draft stock.
I think we will look back on this and laugh one day. I am laughing now and feel much better about this team going forward. It show's we are in good hands and are sticking with the plan of building through the draft. Anyone who is knocking Cleveland should turn their scorn the way of Dan Snyder and the Redskins. Now that he traded all his draft's away, he will be left to continue trying to go Free agent crazy which never work's in the NFL. Especially given that Rookie 1st round picks are now so much more reasonable to sign. I see them being over the cap for the foreseeable future. Griffin just entered into a horrible situation trying to save a Coach his job and the pressure of living up to 3 first round picks and some 2nds or whatever it is. If you ask me today is a good day to be a Brown's fan and am excited for the draft and see what Heckert has up his sleeves.
Quote: If we draft Tannehill at 4 then we deserve the continued losing that will certainly follow from drafting such an underwhelming player that damn high.
I don't believe we will.. in fact, I have a doubt that we'll even Draft tannehill anywhere.. I also doubt we'll draft Weeden.. I just have a feeling that we will draft a QB but it won't be 1st or 2nd round at all..,
Let me go one step further,, unless the Browns are in love with Richardson or Blackmon,, my guess is we trade down this year and get a 1st out of someone for next year.
I only say that because that's kinda been the way Heckert seems to like to work things.... we'll see
Quote: #4 for a QB with a good arm, good footwork, decent mechanics, pro system, great pocket presence, NFL size, athleticism and to quote casserly is terrific going through his progressions. and is 28 years old
Everything he has done has to be downgraded due to the bolded part I added. He's a 28 year old competing against 18-22 year olds, I would certainly hope he'd be lighting up the place if he had any sort of NFL aspirations. Many on here have said that the WCO is a 3 year process, so a 1st round pick on a guy that will be 31 by the time he learns the system does not a sound appealing to me. I'd love him if he was 5 years younger, but then again he wouldn't be this "highly touted" prospect if he was playing against people his own age.
As I expected (and said a week or so ago) the Redskins are paying whatever it takes to move up to #2. I knew that no price would be too high for Danny Snyder.
I also expected to see the usual group of posters ready to jump off the proverbial roof because the Browns weren't willing to outspend the maniac in DC. So far I have been right on this front as well.
We will not have to forfeit the season because we don't get RG3. Contrary to what some will have us believe.
I don't know if Mourg is right but I have a sneaking suspicion he is and that we will make whatever moves we have to make to acquire Tannehill. I can live with that. Hopefully, the more manic posters on here can as well.
Weeden is 29 not Tannehill. Weeden is also from the spread, has horrible footwork with the slightest hint of pressure and should not even be considered until the 3rd.
Tannehill is from Sherman's offense which is pretty damn close to this one.
Quote: The same could be said with Jamison Hensley, the AFC North Blogger for ESPN...he has virtually no clue about what the Browns FO truly thinks or wants to do and is a very lazy journalist and pumps out a crapload of articles (pun intended) stating his opinion as fact when in reality he doesn't know a single thing about the team he is reporting on.
Pete...speaking of Hensley, did you read what this jerk wrote this morning? ESPNs Hensley
Hensely is a Baltimore native who signed on with ESPN just last year. He is obviously an anti-Browns and pro-Ravens writer...so what does espn do with him...they assign him to blog about the Browns...thanks for Ravens plant, ESPN.
Here is what Jamison Hensley wrote when he left the Baltimore Sun newspaper just before joining ESPN last year...
Jamison Hensley says goodbye to his hometown newspaper
September 14, 2011 By Jamison Hensley
It’s hard to think of my life without The Sun in it. I delivered The Sun when I was a kid in Northeast Baltimore. I answered phones for it when I was a college student. I covered the Ravens for it for over half of my adult life.
Quote: LOSERS: Cleveland Browns: After appearing to be in the driver's seat to acquire Griffin, they are now back to what they had previously at QB: a bunch of guys. What is available in the rest of the draft is another bunch of guys. They have to decide if they want to burn a round 1 or 2 pick on a QB prospect who isn't special, or give Colt McCoy an abundance of talent around him to remove any remaining question marks about the reasons for his lack of success and production.
That about says it all.
The factory of sadness remains at full production.
Quote: Weeden is 29 not Tannehill. Weeden is also from the spread, has horrible footwork with the slightest hint of pressure and should not even be considered until the 3rd.
Tannehill is from Sherman's offense which is pretty damn close to this one.
Ah, for some reason, I thought you were talking Weeden. Ignore this lol.
Quote: RG3 will now and forever be in an elite group with the likes of Ricky Williams and Hershell Walker.
I happen to agree Mourg, Time will tell but I feel good about this one. I hope those Griffin fans now hope he fails miserably because he is now the enemy. I have a feeling that he is the guy that came out and said he didn't want to be drafted by the Brown's. Only QB's pull that crap, and maybe Heckert caught wind of it and the report that we were attempting to trade is fabricated slightly to show a good will effort but both teams knew He wasn't coming here. Did anyone ever once get the feeling we were in the slight bit interested? They were general statements about how good of an athlete he is. If he stumbles as a QB, he can try at Receiver which some before this year projected him as in the NFL.
I am sorry but whomever put the Browns as "losers" for not switching #1's this year, two #1's the next two years and #2 this year simply has no friggin idea how teams are built in the NFL . Free agency has not even started yet, of course the Rams were looking for a sucker and they found one.
That being said-there already may be a way to acquire more draft picks for us if we want to move down a couple. There is already a report out this morning that the Vikes want Kalil. So now we hold all the cards. We have Blackmon and Clairborne if we want or we can take one of the #1's back from the Rams.
Rams loved Blackmon’s Pro Day, may have traded down too far
Posted by Michael David Smith on March 10, 2012, 11:32 AM EST
Getty Images The St. Louis Post-Dispatch has a story in Saturday’s paper about Oklahoma State receiver Justin Blackmon’s Friday Pro Day, written before news broke that the Rams and Redskins had agreed on Thursday night to swap first-round picks.
We already knew that Blackmon ran well at his Pro Day, but the Post-Dispatch report makes clear that the Rams like a lot more about Blackmon than just how fast he can run 40 yards in a straight line. Rams receivers coach Ray Sherman was on the scene alongside director of college scouting John Mancini and director of player personnel Lawrence McCutcheon, and Sherman offered some lofty comparisons about what kind of receiver Blackmon can become.
“I thought he ran well,” Sherman said. “I thought he caught the ball well; he was very good. . . . I coached a Hall of Famer in Jerry Rice. Everybody said he wasn’t fast, and all I know is when he caught [the ball] nobody could catch him. And I went against guys like Michael Irvin. Those guys are football players. This guy — Justin Blackmon — is a football player.”
That sounds like a football player the Rams would love to take with the sixth overall pick in the NFL draft, but the question now becomes whether Blackmon will still be there at No. 6. Vikings coach Leslie Frazier and Browns coach Pat Shurmur were both at Blackmon’s Pro Day, and Shurmur made a specific point of approaching Blackmon afterward and telling him how much he liked what he saw. With the Vikings picking third and the Browns picking fourth, there’s a good chance that Blackmon will be off the board before the Rams pick sixth.
The other player the Rams are said to be enamored with, LSU cornerback Morris Claiborne, also may go to the Vikings, Browns or, at No. 5, the Buccaneers. So the Rams may have traded down too far to get either of the players they’re reportedly most interested in. Mel Kiper suggested on Friday that both Blackmon and Claiborne will be gone, and that the Rams may be choosing between Iowa offensive tackle Riley Reiff and Memphis defensive tackle Dontari Poe.
For the Rams, this trade was about a lot more than one player, and this trade will be defined not simply by what they do with the sixth overall pick but also with what the Rams do with the other two first-round picks and the second-round pick they got from the Redskins. That’s good, because the Rams may find that the players they’re hoping for at No. 6 aren’t there for the taking.
What has Tannehill done that looks like it will translate to the NFL level?
Seriously.
He is unsettled under pressure, and makes stupid throws. He is fine on short throws, but struggles with accuracy the deeper you ask him to throw the ball. He will never hit a deep out with authority. His arm is decent, but not some special rocket as some have implied. His accuracy is spotty, especially down the field. He lacks experience. and experience is one of the biggest factors in predicting NFL success for a QB.
Someone put up tape on Tannehill's games, and it looked like he was throwing almost every single pass within 5 yards of the LOS. Sure there was an occasional foray deeper down the field, met with mixed results, but the majority of his passes are short little flares, and not big boy NFL throws.
I just don't see a special NFL talent there. I see a guy who might make it someday ...... but not any time soon. I don't see HH&S picking a guy who won't help them for 2 more years. They might not have jobs in 2 more years if things don't improve before then. This is year 3 of Holmgren/Heckert, and we are coming off 5-11, 4-12. I don't care who did what before this, the simple fact is that we're in year 3 with no real improvement in win/loss yet. Sooner or later, you have to win if you want to stay in the NFL.
Plan A is gone (we obviously were in the bidding from all reports), and I'm not sure I would have paid THAT price but we should have paid less since we're at 4 and had another 1st this draft...
anyway...I'm confident enough in Heckert that he has a plan B, C, D and more
At this point I'll join Mourg's bandwagon and pull for Tannehill, that'd be my plan B now, plan C being Weeden, plan D Flynn and plan E Campbell and mid rounder
Not sure Tannehill can come in day 1 and beat out McCoy...so maybe both "camps" get their wish...McCoy gets another half season to show he's trash and then Tannehill takes over as soon as he's ready (or as soon as fans are finally fed up with Colt)...I hope though that we sign a stop gap QB like Henne, Orton, Campbell if we draft Tannehill...because....if we draft Tannehill, he'll be considered our franchise guy and McCoy has still some trade value as a backup QB option....he won't re-sign with us anyway as a backup, might as well get what we can and trade him then, rather then keeping him around as a "lame duck QB"...would be best for both
Quote: I am sorry but whomever put the Browns as "losers" for not switching #1's this year, two #1's the next two years and #2 this year simply has no friggin idea how teams are built in the NFL . Free agency has not even started yet, of course the Rams were looking for a sucker and they found one.
I didn't say the browns were losers because they didn't give away the picks the skins did, I said they're losers in the trade because they still don't have a great QB... Maybe not even a "good enough" QB, and that there's nobody else that is special to go after. If you'll actually read the post I made, you'll see that I also listed the Skins as losers for the reason you mentioned.
To you and Otto, the people bemoaning this trade aren't upset with Heckert for not topping the deal, just for the fact that we're stuck with mediocre QB options.
To you and Otto, the people bemoaning this trade aren't upset with Heckert for not topping the deal, just for the fact that we're stuck with mediocre QB options.
Quote: or give Colt McCoy an abundance of talent around him to remove any remaining question marks about the reasons for his lack of success and production.
jc...
Why wouldn't the Browns want to give our QB, whomever that is, an abundance of talent around him, to give him the best chance to succeed.
If the Browns had landed RGIII and mortgaged our future to do it, we would still be faced with adding the talent around our QB to help him and the team succeed.
The Browns would have found themselves in the same situation they setup for Tim Couch...a top pick QB without the talent surrounding him to succeed.
Rather than repeat history by giving up so many future draft picks for another top QB, the Browns need to go back to doing what they started, two years ago...rebuilding this team by laying a sound foundation. A foundation built upon solid draft picks with the best talent available.
With the high priced, and maybe over priced QBs gone, now the Browns have no choice but to return to the formula that turned the Browns pass defense into the 2nd best in the NFL...and that is with a ton of young guys who will only get better.
I just don't see Tannehill as a good option for us. Frankly I don't see him as that special a QB. He was a 2nd rounder prior to the combine, and now people are talking about him at 4. That's just crazy talk IMHO.
Maybe if he could come in and sit for a couple of years like Rodgers did ..... then maybe I'd take him ...... but I just don't see him being a viable starter until, at best, sometime in his 2nd year.
If we go through yet another horrible year, the pressure is really going to be on HH&S. I think that they have to come up with surefire starters in this draft, not guys who will sit on the bench and hopefully develop ... not in the first round anyway. I think that they almost have to get to 8-8 this year, no excuses, questions, or reason why they didn't. 3 losing seasons to open up their tenure (Holmgren and Heckert's anyway) would be a pretty damning indictment on their regime. I don;t care how bad the team was, people turn around teams in less time. Hell, the 49'ers sucked in a bad division last year, and turned around in one year.
I think that we go one of 3 ways at this point, and they all suck.
1) We sign Flynn. He's going to be a highly questionable, and expensive choice now. I'm not sure we'll even be able to sign him. If we do, he better be "all that", and he better win too.
2) We draft Weeden. Heckert loves the guy. Who knows?
3) We stick with Colt McCoy. This is risky for HH&S. If McCoy continues to struggle, and the team continues to lose, then everything they do is called into question. These guys were brought in to find the QB, and fix the offense. Thus far we don't have a real answer at QB, and the offense looks more limited than Mangini's. Not a good sign for a trio of offensive guys. Tannehill might buy them a season ..... but damn, they better be right, and he better be a breakout superstar in his 2nd year. If not .... then why do they have jobs? This was their entire reason for being brought in.
Right now the Browns have a lot of bad choices. Par for the course for us.
Quote: the people bemoaning this trade aren't upset with Heckert for not topping the deal, just for the fact that we're stuck with mediocre QB options.
This quote made me realize that I don't know exactly how to feel right now.
Fact 1: You cannot win in this league without a QB.
Fact 2: There is no guarantee RG3 is going to be any good.
Talk about the ultimate risk/reward. There is a part of me that wished the Browns would have been aggressive and did whatever it took. There is an equal part of me that thinks the price was too high.
This is going to sound very obtuse, but maybe we will finally get lucky for once. Maybe we will bring in a guy like Flynn or Tannehill, and they will surprise. Or maybe McCoy pulls a Brees. Aren't we due for some luck?
I'm numb to most of this by now anyway. Not really looking forward to the season. Just kind of blah. Probably because I feel like all we have to hope for is a little bit of luck. But we've got to be due, right?
I do agree that the Browns should not have made the trade that the Skins did.
I think that given the two options I laid out that the Browns should focus on upgrading the talent at the positions other than QB, since I don't think as significant an upgrade is available at the QB position as there is at other positions of (in some cases dire) need. WR, RB, RT, DE, CB all need to be invested in getting premium talent. QB upgrade is needed too, IMO, but you can't get water from a dry well.
I'm surprised that the deal got done now. I was firmly in the camp that it wouldn't get done until draft day. So, I was wrong about that (assuming this all goes through, which it likely will).
That being said, I also was firmly in the camp that if we were going to give things up to the Rams, I wanted them to be just from this draft. I didn't like the idea of getting a guy like RGIII, then having to rely on later round draft picks and free agents to fill in.
I am surprised the Rams wouldn't trade with us, especially if we offered our 4, 22 and next year's first. They gave up 2 1sts this year and 2 1sts next year for 2 1sts next year and 2 1sts the following year. Maybe a wash, I don't know. I can see what another poster said, though, too, that the Rams may have dropped down too far (unless they're certain we're not going to take Blackmon and neither is TB. But, that doesn't mean we wouldn't trade out with someone who does want him).
In any event, I'm glad we didn't do it. I think we can get a very good player at 4 and another very good player at 22. I think that there will be some very good options for us at 37, too. Then, next year, we can still get 1st round talent.
That all being said, and putting my man love for Blackmon aside, I hope we trade down. Still in the top 10 (especially if someone wants to jump up to grab Claiborne or Blackmon before the Rams can take him, e.g. Jacksonville) and stock up on more picks next year.
I hope RGIII does well in the league. There are few guys I wish failure upon. Him going to Washington means we'll play him pretty rarely.
I'm kind of torn now on a trade down. Would love to draft Claiborne there and have the best young starting corner tandem in the league. Would also love to trade down, get an extra pick, and take Richardson.
The only thing I know for sure is I don't want to reach for a QB because we missed out on RG3. I think if I hear Tannehill's name announced with the 4th pick (and I have nothing against him and trust some of the good opinions on here about him), I think I'll just turn off the TV.
The answer IMO is because all that are available are average QBs. Why burn premium picks to hopefully upgrade a position from below average to average when you can turn a weakness into a strength?
At this point, we need receivers who can break and avoid tackles on quick hitters, then run away from defenders. I'm hoping for Blackmon and Wright with our first two picks.
Hard to even come to grips with how disgusted I am right now.
Washington made it happen. The Browns failed.
The reasons are obvious. Why do you think Denver is rolling out the red carpet for Manning?
Washington and Denver recognize that you have to have a great quarterback to win.
I thought there was no way the Browns were not going to land Griffin. Just the history of Holmgren with Walsh. His experience with mobile quarterbacks. Steve Young, and Seneca Wallace playing in the offense he was so committed to.
Griffin having every characteristic you could want.
Now they can put all the spin they want to on Tannehill or "we love McCoy".
All garbage, our view of the AFC North will remain the same as it is now.
Players like Luck and Griffin do NOT come along often. Talk all you want about Barkley, Landry Jones, or Tannehill sorry not even close.
There is no player in this draft that can have the effect that Griffin would have brought.
Holmgren and Heckert have failed and they will join the others before them in a couple years because their failure.
the Browns have no choice but to return to the formula that turned the Browns pass defense into the 2nd best in the NFL
Post the the 3rd worst rushing defense in the NFL?
Yep ..... but people won't see that.
We allowed 133, (to the Rams, the 2nd worst team in the NFL) 108, (to Jacksonville, the laughing stock, other than us, in the NFL) 132 to the Bengals, 290 to Baltimore, 147 to the Steelers, 74 to the Cardinals, (yea) 162 to the Ravens (Yeah, but look at the improvement from a few weeks ago) and 161 to the Steelers.
For comparison's sake, the Jags game was our 2nd best effort in the 2nd half of last season. 11 teams did better than that for the entire season.
The answer IMO is because all that are available are average QBs. Why burn premium picks to hopefully upgrade a position from below average to average when you can turn a weakness into a strength?
At this point, we need receivers who can break and avoid tackles on quick hitters, then run away from defenders. I'm hoping for Blackmon and Wright with our first two picks.
Then why not sign one of the FA QB's and upgrade the QB position that way?
Another year of below average QB play is, for me, unacceptable. This regime's number one goal was to solve the QB position and so far they have failed spectacularly.
Flynn is still available (if he's as good as some think he is). There are quality QBs in the draft (Tannehill and Weeden). There may be some quality QBs in FA (like Jason Campbell).
Not sure I'm ready to give up on this regime just yet.
In fact, if you want to be optimistic, I'd say that it's encouraging that this regime was willing to give up what I think is a big payment in order to get RGIII. I think that shows they recognize that our QB position needs help.
Quote: Glazer: Rams, Redskins strike deal for No. 2 pick Posted by Mike Florio on March 9, 2012, 10:29 PM EST The Dolphins had better offer Peyton Manning more money, because their Plan B has now evaporated.
Jay Glazer of FOX Sports reports that the Rams and the Redskins have agreed to terms on a deal that will send the second overall pick in the 2012 draft to Washington. The Redskins undoubtedly will pick quarterback Robert Griffin III. (Or, at the very worst, Andrew Luck.)
Glazer says that the team will swap first-round picks in 2012, with St. Louis taking the No. 6 pick. The Rams also get two future first-round picks and additional selections, one of which is believed to be a second-rounder.
Nice post! Thanks! If we look at all the teams drafting in the top 8 this year - how many of them have first round QBs? 5 right? If we ask how many of these teams have young QBs starting there's 6.
Don't many of these young QBs need either need an important pass protecting Tackle or a game changing WR? Giving up at least 2 consecutive 1st round draft picks and 1 second round pick removes the perk other young QBs are going to receive in getting this key offensive prospect to help the young QB.
Do you know what Andrew Luck is going to get that RGIII won't receive? First round help in 2013 and 2014. We're not exactly talking about Pittsburgh's front office that can land ho a Mike Wallace, Antonio Brown, or Emmanuelle Sanders after round 1. We're talking about NFL body by Daniel Snyder, which has every football fan in DC missing the previous ownership considerably.
I haven't given up on the regime yet either. I'm just saying that below average QB play is not going to be acceptable again next year. If McCoy is back, he has to be at least average.
I'm not asking for much. I'm asking for average QB play. That should easily be obtainable. I do hope that Kolb does get cut in Arizona, because I think I'd like to see him here.
I agree 100% (though not necessarily about Kolb as I have no opinion on him). If we enter this year with the QB tandem of McCoy and Wallace, I think we will suffer unless they both improve dramatically. I don't expect that from Wallace. We know what we have in him. McCoy is the one who "might" improve.
Because if we get help at RT and WR and he still can't look like a true NFL QB, then that makes the decision easier. Then maybe next year we sell the farm to get a guy like Barkley. Heck, if McCoy struggles again this year, we might not have to owning the no. 1 pick.
I think we end up with Tannehill at 4 unless we drop a couple spots and draft him at 6 or close.
btw...saw Tannehill throwing it around with WRs before the drills.
He looks like a stud tossing it around.
Combine that with some serious athleticism and experience under Sherman in the WCO....
Holmgren is going to figure out how to sell this but he will....bank it.
Looks like this is going to come to fruition.
I'm excited about having Tannehill under center. I do hope we hold him back until after the bye week because AFC North defenses are just a wee bit better than the Big XII.
Resign Hillis, get a top flight free agent WR and draft a competent RT for the long term...and I'd be excited to see how this develops.
A lot of people are down on Tannehill but he has two main things going for him.
For all those guys freaking out that we must get a QB... do we? If we don't get a potential starter in this years draft or free agency.. so what? its not the end of the world. There is always next year.
We drafted Colt in the 3rd round.. he hasn't set the league on fire, but he will grow and get better.
Build up all the other pieces.. and then insert QB.. if Colt is not ur guy.
Quote: Plan A is gone (we obviously were in the bidding from all reports), and I'm not sure I would have paid THAT price but we should have paid less since we're at 4 and had another 1st this draft...
anyway...I'm confident enough in Heckert that he has a plan B, C, D and more
At this point I'll join Mourg's bandwagon and pull for Tannehill, that'd be my plan B now, plan C being Weeden, plan D Flynn and plan E Campbell and mid rounder
Not sure Tannehill can come in day 1 and beat out McCoy...so maybe both "camps" get their wish...McCoy gets another half season to show he's trash and then Tannehill takes over as soon as he's ready (or as soon as fans are finally fed up with Colt)...I hope though that we sign a stop gap QB like Henne, Orton, Campbell if we draft Tannehill...because....if we draft Tannehill, he'll be considered our franchise guy and McCoy has still some trade value as a backup QB option....he won't re-sign with us anyway as a backup, might as well get what we can and trade him then, rather then keeping him around as a "lame duck QB"...would be best for both
U and I tend to be on similar pages on analysis,but after this...I almostfeel like..WHATEVER..the wind was taken out of me a bit..I thought the Browns like RG because Shurnmur gave it away when he wanted to watch his game on TV..I hope Washington implodes from not having any draft picks to use..
Quote: For all those guys freaking out that we must get a QB... do we? If we don't get a potential starter in this years draft or free agency.. so what? its not the end of the world. There is always next year.
We drafted Colt in the 3rd round.. he hasn't set the league on fire, but he will grow and get better.
Build up all the other pieces.. and then insert QB.. if Colt is not ur guy.
I personally don't see McCoy growing into 'the guy', but if he's under center for another year, I can live with it, so long as we're building a solid foundation for his replacement to stand on.
I, for one, am pretty stoked that Washington pulled the trigger on this and not us. Griffin at 4, fine. Staking the mortgage on an unproven commodity when the cupboard is already bare is not my idea of success.
But some people around here act like Griffin is the last QB prospect that's going to come down the pike for decades. There will be more, and the more we've built up a solid team, the brighter the idea of them under center will become.
But some people around here act like Griffin is the last QB prospect that's going to come down the pike for decades. There will be more, and the more we've built up a solid team, the brighter the idea of them under center will become.
Quote: I personally don't see McCoy growing into 'the guy',
I think he can. I think we need to give him the tools to work with. A running game, RT and WR's that don't drop every pass thrown to them
Quote: but if he's under center for another year, I can live with it, so long as we're building a solid foundation for his replacement to stand on.
Solid back up plan.
Quote: I, for one, am pretty stoked that Washington pulled the trigger on this and not us. Griffin at 4, fine. Staking the mortgage on an unproven commodity when the cupboard is already bare is not my idea of success.
But some people around here act like Griffin is the last QB prospect that's going to come down the pike for decades. There will be more, and the more we've built up a solid team, the brighter the idea of them under center will become.
Quote: I just don't see Tannehill as a good option for us. Frankly I don't see him as that special a QB. He was a 2nd rounder prior to the combine, and now people are talking about him at 4. That's just crazy talk IMHO.
Do you really believe that was the case? Someone shows up at the combines and goes from 2nd round to top 10 prospect because hmm interviews. I mean that is all he was able to do since he was out with a broken bone in his foot.
Draft boards are 99% set before the National championship game. The only reason that you see guys shoot up the board is because the media and draft sites are slow to recognize people the scouts already held in high regard.
these kids rarely move up at all to be honest. Others may fall due to poor interviews, medical, background checks, or in the case of Mauluga ask the team driver to stop at the strip bar or a drink before going in for your interview.
The only time a great workout helps is when you have two guys rated even on everything else and it may help then but more often than not it will come down to need or a GUT feeling.
We have been scouting Tannehill especially hard for some time and for good reason. Hell I think we will draft him but if we don't I won't complain because there are some good prospects. Now if we don't take him and take a guy like Coples then i will rip Heckert as bad as I did when we signed Delhomme.
Quote: Lol, guess I was wrong, there are some people that wanted us to top Washington's deal.
I know right, crazy.
Had we kept raising until we got the #2, those people would be happy.....but they would also be the same people saying how horrible of a trade it was when RG3 doesn't deliver a playoff win within 2 years.
RG3 isn't a franchise QB. He could be, just like Luck or any other guy in the draft. I'm not going all in, at those stakes, for an unknown.
I think the "Factory of Sadness" people need to go take a leap. Being a fan of a team doesn't mean you're guaranteed winning seasons or titles.....you're just a fan of them, that's it. If you can't accept losing, tough times and feel like your team are failures when they don't trade 3 firsts and 1 second for ONE unproven QB......then leave.
People are acting like we owned the #2 pick and are passing on RG3....like it's a massive oversight on our part. The Skins paid WAAAAYYYY too much for this guy and all the pressure in the world will be on him. We still have all of our picks, lots of cap room and many years in the future to continue the build.
Three first rounders ( 4, 22, and 2013) plus a third this year.
The fourth pick is a swap. So it cost pick 22, next years unknown first and a third this year. If you have to then give up the second this year. if the third is not enough.
There is no excuse for the Browns to let a team behind them in the draft land Griffin.
Now we all get to watch for the next 15 years and say "I wish we would have".
Like I said, I can't see us taking a guy who will be zero help this year with #4. Some teams can afford that risk. Some teams can take a guy with very limited experience and hope that he beats the long odds that shortfall entails. Cam Newton did it last year. However, Ryan Tannehill isn't Cam Newton. He may have been that once in a generation guy who makes a huge leap like that.
Some teams can take a guy with their first round pick and get nothing from him this year, and maybe even part of next. We aren't that kind of team. If we don't get a true franchise level QB, then we can't take the 3rd best option that high. That would be career suicide for HH&S. Imagine this team winning 4 games again, with Ryan Tannehill sitting on the bench, and the braintrust still not sure that he's ready to go on day 1 of the 2013 season. Ugh. They might as well start packing then.
Right now I am changing my thought process, and saying that we should go with Richardson at 4. I am against taking a RB that high, but we need a player with that pick who will make a huge impact as a rookie, and he's the best we could get on offense. We can look at WR with our 2nd 1st round pick to "surround McCoy with weapons", and finally know for sure what he is. We can take Weeden with our 2nd round pick, and hope that he is what we need if McCoy continues to struggle. We can fill holes from there. Hopefully we can find a veteran WR who actually wants to play here under our current situation, but i cannot imagine such a player's agent recommending us if the player has a choice. I don't see that happening until and unless we get the QB position filled by a player who makes a visiting free agent WR think that he can make him a star. Guys want money, no doubt about it ..... but they also want their career to continue and be successful. A WR is completely reliant on the QB he plays with. A bad QB can end a WR's career in no time flat. Heck, we have a guy who looked really promising in his rookie year in MoMass ....... over 18 yards/catch ...... yet here he is, struggling with QBs who cannot throw a deep pass ........ and on the verge of being cut. I would think that a free agent WR would see the same thing, and would, at the very least, have major reservations about signing with a team with nothing but question marks at the QB position.
Right now that's all we have.
As far as your question to me ..... do you really believe, even with the premium placed on the QB position, that Ryan Tannehill is anywhere near the 4th best player in this draft? 7th best? 10th best? I don't see him in the top 15 personally ..... and that's with a super QB premium added in. Inexperienced QBs generally do not make it in the NFL. That is fact. QBs with less than 2 seasons worth of starts, no matter how supremely talented, usually don't become successful NFL QBs. Can you find me 5 such guys in the last 10 years? I'll give you one: Cam Newton. I'll even give you a second of dubious distinction in Matt Cassell. Can you give me 3 others?
Quote: "We have been scouting Tannehill especially hard for some time and for good reason."
So why did we go after RGIII so hard if we love Tannehill ?
Hell we could have been inquiring about a trade up if Luck happened to fall. Rams call up Snyder, Hey I got the Browns on the phone and they are wanting to move up so if you want to make a deal better do it now.
Three first rounders ( 4, 22, and 2013) plus a third this year.
The fourth pick is a swap. So it cost pick 22, next years unknown first and a third this year. If you have to then give up the second this year. if the third is not enough.
There is no excuse for the Browns to let a team behind them in the draft land Griffin.
Now we all get to watch for the next 15 years and say "I wish we would have".
That is wrong. It was a swap of this years first plus 3 additional 1st round picks and a second. St louis was hell bent on getting three firsts because they knew their buyer from day 1 and that was Snyder. I agree that if the Brown's wanted him they could have had him, but they didn't want him. If you believe any of this funny stuff that they entered the bidding at the last minute and raised their bid then you are delusional. I don't think any of us will yearn for Griffin at any time in the next 15 years.
I have been a fan of this team for almost 40 years ..... game in and game out ...... living and dying with each victory, or far more often, loss.
I started following the Browns about the time I was 10 years old. That's 38 years ago.
What have I seen?
I have seen this team manage 12 winning seasons. 12. That means 23 losing seasons. (we lost 3 to oblivion when MoSMell screwed us) I have seen them go a combined 236-319. Think about that for a minute. I have lived every stinking year in a Steelers fan infested town ... hearing all about their 8 trips to, and 6 wins in the Super Bowl .... while we haven't even made it to one.
I have watched this team march out wretchedly awful players at the QB position, one after another after another ..... and we, surprise, keep losing.
Our best QB, from both a statistical and wins standpoints, since this team came back from non-existence, is Derek Anderson.
Think about that for a minute. Derek Anderson is the standard of excellence by which all others must be compared. he is the franchise leader in single season TD passes. The franchise leader.
I watched my beloved team stolen away, and then win a Super Bowl elsewhere.
Yes, I am sick of it. I'm not going to leave the team that I love ..... because even though it's an abusive relationship, I must somehow enjoy the beatings. I have been here for every single heartbreak ..... every single disgusting blowout, and the all too few high points that I could rub in Steelers fans' faces.
Go take a leap? I think not.
Just because I love this team doesn't mean that I cannot be disgusted with their inability to get things turned around. I don't think that a winning season now and then, or even a streak of winning seasons is too much to ask. Maybe you do. maybe you like losing. I don't. I am sick of it. I can't leave, but that doesn't mean that I am going to pretend that I am just fine with us stinking up the joint every freakin' year.
If you can't handle that, then maybe you should take a leap.
Where have you read that St Louis got 4 first round picks?
if it was 3, why would they take 3 from Washington, where their pick this year is inferior to theirs, and we could offer a 1st round pick this year, locked in at 22, while the Rams have to gamble on what they will wind up with from the Redskins?
I bet that we could have had the pick for both 1st round picks this year, a 2nd next year, and a 1st in 2014. is that an ideal situation? No. However, by accounts, it was the Browns refusal to add their second 1st rounder this year that doomed our bid. I would have done that.
Quote: If it's me, at this point, I draft Richardson.
I was against it, but we need something on offense, and a WR isn't going to have that big of an impact.
I would go WR with our 2nd 1st rounder, and then draft Weeden (and pray) with our 2nd.
I know we're just rehashing old debates (what else do we have to do?) but I'm so against a RB w/ our first pick. I'm happy w/ Heckert's best player available there at #4. And thre are awesome WRs to be taken in the 2nd round and awesome RBs to be had in rounds 2 - 4 . . .
And whoever is talking Tanehill at pick 4 needs to stop right NOW . . .
I am so ready for free agency to come and go!!!!!!
I just don't see Blackmon as being in the same league as AJ Green, or even Julio Jones. He's a nice WR, but not a WR you build around ..... if there even is such a thing.
Quote: There is no excuse for the Browns to let a team behind them in the draft land Griffin.
Now we all get to watch for the next 15 years and say "I wish we would have".
And if RG3 is a failure we say...... Man we sacrificed three first round picks on this guy and a 3rd rounder (like you'd be willing to give up).
You're just blowing this WAY out of proportion. 15 years? You act like this is the only QB prospect ever.
Man, I wanted Matt Barkley over Griffin in the first place. I think we need to settle down, let Heckert do his job, and hold the course.
If we don't get a QB this year, that's okay. Especially if Weeden isn't a good long-term option. I mean, heck, we also need (saying that we re-sign Hillis), a WR, RT (which will have to be filled in the draft prob, Kareem McKenzie is better than Pashos, but he's definitely not the option I want), and a DE to pair with Sheard.
That's going to improve our team for sure.
I understand that a new QB would be nice, but Colt is better than what we saw last year, and knee jerk reactions are no good. If there's a different option that is better than our current one (Colt McCoy starting), let's do it. But DO NOT reach to get a guy and if we aren't in love with Matt Flynn don't get him either.
We didn't get RG3, that's okay. There's either other QB's out there or other QB's down the road. I never heard of RG3 until this year. He isn't even the best QB in the draft.......
Diddling while Cleveland burns Mar 10, 2012 -- 12:25pm By Bruce Hooley
It’s time Browns president Mike Holmgren and general manager Tom Heckert brush up on their geography.
Gentlemen, you work for the Cleveland Browns, located in Cleveland, Ohio….Eastern Standard time zone, 41 degrees north latitude, 81 degrees west longitude.
In other words, boys, we’re not in Alaska any more.
After two seasons and only nine wins on the job, you no longer toil in the Land of the Midnight Sun, where it’s perpetually daylight in the dreams we have for the future of our beloved franchise under your direction.
There is no more tolerance for a “second first year,” a “process” or any of the other measured mumbo jumbo you’ve been spinning about the ponderous pace of rebuilding our Browns into something other than an NFL punchline.
It’s time for some urgency, fellas…the kind you did not show in allowing Washington to trump your queen and obtain the No. 2 pick in the NFL draft from St. Louis.
The Redskins will now get Heisman Trophy quarterback Robert Griffin to lead their franchise into the next decade.
It doesn’t matter what you offered the Rams for the No. 2 pick. All that matters is you didn’t offer enough.
If SI.com’s Peter King is correct, you let Griffin get away because you weren’t willing to include a second-round choice – No. 37 overall – along with three No. 1 picks.
Washington met St. Louis’ price – believed to be the first time in NFL history a team has traded three No. 1 picks for another first-rounder.
The Rams made clear their preference for completing the deal before the start of free agency.
Washington pay heed and acted boldly.
Heckert and Holmgren heard the same admonition and waited for someone else to make a move so they could continue to rest on their comfortable roost on the fence.
It’s where they’ve resided since coming here, trying to make do with a third-round project as their quarterback of the future, failing to upgrade via free agency skill positions bereft of talent, overdrafting prospects that no other teams rate as highly and relying on the brilliance of their West Coast system to outsmart the rest of the league.
As Heckert said Thursday on Cleveland Browns Daily on ESPN 850 WKNR: ''We feel very comfortable staying at four and getting a good player there, and that could happen. And we feel comfortable in moving down and getting more picks, we really do. It's way early to start talking about this stuff.''
Way too early for him. Not too early for Washington.
How can the word, “comfortable,” still remain in Heckert or Holmgren’s vocabulary after the product they’ve put on the field the past two seasons?
Pittsburgh, Baltimore and Cincinnati – the Browns’ competition in the AFC North – all made the playoffs last season and have far brighter prospects for the future.
Oh, but the Browns have lots of draft picks with which to overtake them.
Tell that to Cincinnati, which has nine picks in the first three rounds of the next two drafts, with its franchise quarterback and wide receiver plucked in the draft last season.
Or tell it to Pittsburgh and Baltimore, which have proven track records of de-pantsing Cleveland in the draft (Joe Flacco, Haloti Ngata, Mike Wallace, Antonio Brown, etc., etc., etc.).
The Browns don’t have a quarterback, have dubious interest in retaining the only facsimile of an offensive playmaker they have in soon-to-be-free-agent Peyton Hillis, averaged just over 13 points per-game last season and scored only one more point than the expansion Browns of 1999.
Yet, still, Heckert and, presumably, Holmgren, are comfortable.
If it’s true they balked on making the RG3 deal with Washington to preserve a second-round choice, that ranks as H&H’s dumbest move yet.
Allowing a second-rounder to stand between them and a possible transcendent talent at the most important position in football is akin to walking away from a home purchase because of a $5,000 difference in price.
Amortized over a 30-year loan, that $5,000 might hike the home-buyer’s monthly payment by 20 bucks.
Similarly, the second-rounder the Browns preserved is unlikely to make any appreciable difference in the team’s fortunes going forward. Unless, of course, you consider the loss of a second-rounder like Brian Robiskie crippling.
Here’s hoping the arrival of the summer solstice jars Holmgren and Heckert to advance their time clocks at least an hour on getting the Browns back into competitive shape.
If not, Holmgren might never have a team capable of allowing him to make good on his threat to withhold playoff tickets from non-believers.
When it comes to seeing the Browns as a viable Super Bowl contender, the view right now looks a lot like it did to Yogi Berra when he once spoke about the sun making left field in Yankee Stadium problematic for him to play.
“It gets late early out there.”
Bruce Hooley hosts The Hooligans from 3-6 p.m. weekdays on ESPN 850 WKNR. Email Bruce at hoolz@espncleveland.com. Follow Bruce on Twitter @bhoolz
Quote: I just don't see Blackmon as being in the same league as AJ Green, or even Julio Jones. He's a nice WR, but not a WR you build around ..... if there even is such a thing.
Oh I hear you. I'd take Claiborne over Blackmon or Richardson at #4. If we can't trade down, Claiborne's still my guy . . .
Quote: I just don't see Blackmon as being in the same league as AJ Green, or even Julio Jones. He's a nice WR, but not a WR you build around ..... if there even is such a thing.
See, I see Blackmon closer to Julio Jones. His decent 40 time makes me feel better about him, but I'm still not sure about drafting him at 4 either.
Honestly, I wanna re-sign Hillis and trade down. Claiborne isn't a bad option either. You seem to be offense happy with your picks but you haven't mentioned a RT. That'll make a huge impact for our running game and passing game too.
I'd love something like 1) Cordy Glenn (Trade Down) 1B) Mercellius or WR 2) WR or TE 2) RB
Find ourselves a new weakside LB in FA, re-sign Mike Adams, Hillis and Dimitri Patterson.
I would have taken Claiborne until this morning. However, the more I think about it, a WR is not going to make a bit of difference without a QB. If we don't have a QB, then we might as well be able to run the ball.
Even with Claiborne, I don't see us shutting teams down to the point where we can win games scoring 13 points. I cannot imagine receivers beating down the doors to sign here with the condition of our QB position, not top caliber ones anyway. We're going to need help on offense, and if we can't get a premiere QB, then we need a premiere offensive talent that doesn't depend on the QB.
Plus people say that McCoy can play fake. At least Richardson would be someone teams would be concerned about on a fake.
Barkley, Jones, EJ Manuel and Tyler Wilson make next years class just as talented as this year. Would love to get Tannehill because I do believe he is going to be Elite but those 4 QBs right there have as much potential as the QBs in this draft. Could also have Casey Pachall of TCU if he comes out early, kid has some skill.
I . . . FRIGGIN' . . . CAN'T . . . STAND . . . Bruce Hooley. I was so glad he was forced out of Columbus and now here he is all whiney and negative, complaining about the Browns.
the Browns have no choice but to return to the formula that turned the Browns pass defense into the 2nd best in the NFL
Post the the 3rd worst rushing defense in the NFL?
That's BS...our TOTAL/game was 3rd worst...AVG/play was at 4.4 and we were t19th with that....when you just win 4 games and trail in most games of course the total numbers go up
I'm really getting sick and tired of these negative nancies here. OMG! We didn't mortgage our future to land RGIII.. "OH NOES WE ARE GOING TO STINK FOREVER!" I got lambasted for saying that RGIII supporters thought that RGIII would be our savior and guess what.. I was right. They are walking around in defeat as if we will stink forever because we didn't land an over-hyped quarterback PROSPECT.
Sorry, but 3 first rounders and our second rounder which is basically close enough to the first round to be a first rounder is too high a price to risk on taking a prospect that may or may not pan out, especially when you have an OL that couldn't protect worth a penny and WRs that couldn't catch a cold while swimming in a pool of cold-infected mucus.
The Redskins got fleeced and a lot fans around the league feel that they did. Adding RGiii is not the only solution to our problems. If we did trade our 4,2 and 37 pick for RGiii, we wouldn't have a pick until the 5th pick in the 3rd round. Who woulld solidify our WR at that pick? When would we pick a DE or LB to helpd solidify our run defense? When do we pick up a RT to protect the QB's right side to fix the turnstile that exists?
While RGiii at 4 would have been great, mortgaging the draft to pick him up would be a folly. You can say we can work the FA, but unfortunately that is expensive and we'd have to pay an arm and a leg for players who would most likely would rather go to a team with a better chance to go to the Super Bowl. In the past, Offensive FAs haven't worked out that great for us either.
And, I wouldn't trust any reports saying that we offered the same deal as the Redskins and lost. If we had the exact same deal, the Ram would be big losers to pass that up because the 4th pick is better than the 6th pick in this draft in terms of what the Rams possibly are seeking out.
Wow, Hooley sounds just like every other fan board poster who just found out we wouldn't sell the future for their man crush 2ndbest qb in the draft this year. And this "it was just a 2nd round pick difference" stuff has to stop until a real source (holmgren/heckert) confirms it on the record, otherwise it is just rumor and conjecture.
We are going to be a far better TEAM for not doing this trade.
Quote: To you and Otto, the people bemoaning this trade aren't upset with Heckert for not topping the deal, just for the fact that we're stuck with mediocre QB options.
BS. You and Ytown and all the other moaners are pissed because we didn't get your guy. Period.
Free Agency hasn't started and the Draft is a month and a half away but you've already decided that we're doomed.
You guys really need to take a cold shower, take a deep breath and quit your bitchin'. At least until the Draft is over. When you MIGHT, MAYBE have a reason to gripe.
Quote: I'm really getting sick and tired of these negative nancies here. OMG! We didn't mortgage our future to land RGIII.. "OH NOES WE ARE GOING TO STINK FOREVER!"
I haven't really seen a lot of complaining other than a couple guys. Lets not start making generalizations on the last page you read from 1 or 2 posters.
Quote: Barkley, Jones, EJ Manuel and Tyler Wilson make next years class just as talented as this year. Would love to get Tannehill because I do believe he is going to be Elite but those 4 QBs right there have as much potential as the QBs in this draft. Could also have Casey Pachall of TCU if he comes out early, kid has some skill.
1st Off - This Bruce Hooley guy or whatever? He brings shame to the name of the so many great Bruce's out there (Bruce Willis, Wayne, Lee, Springsteen, Smith, Bowen). I was thinking about naming my first born son Bruce, although my girlfriend isn't really sold on that idea.........
Anyway, this Hooley guy seems to be so doom and gloom. I like where our team is headed, I wish we didn't keep Mangini around, but that's okay. That's why I look at this as year two of this regime. Almost 1.5 because of no OTA's.
With Brad Childress coming in as OC, I'm looking forward to progress next year.
2nd - I agree. I'm interested in Landry Jones improving, like Matt Barkley. I have no idea who Tyler Wilson is. And EJ Manuel, not so much. But who knows, may be Manuel will improve!
I'm gonna have to take a closer look at Tannehill and Weeden I think. But yeah, people just seem to be so.......... We didn't get RG3, we're going to regret this forever!
I'm excited about who else Heckert finds. Phil Taylor, Jabaal Sheard last year. May be Greg Little will show up.
We've got 3 early picks and a guy who finds some real talent, things are looking good for us (even if we don't get a QB this year!). As I've said though, just no knee jerk reactions. No, Oh No! We have to get a QB! Evaluate our options and be sensible. Another year of Colt is not the worst thing in the world.
If Tannehill is seen as a franchise guy, let's get him. Same thing for the other QB's. People need to calm down and relax
Mine look like this: (assuming that Kalil will go to Minnesota at 3)
Richardson Claiborne Blackmon
Claiborne would be my #1 in a normal year, but this is not a normal year. We are so incredibly awful on offense that we need a heavy duty difference maker there. We scored just 13 points per game, and we are going to lose Hillis. We need to shore up some area on offense so we can do something well. Blackmon isn't going to turn around the offense by himself. Richardson would let McCoy at least be able to run play action that teams would have to pay attention to. I think that would open up more than any WR will.
I would ordinarily go CB before either RB or WR, but this is not an ordinary year. If we had anything resembling an average offense, then I might go CB. However we are so bad, that we need the biggest possible impact player, and at this point, that's Richardson. he is also the guy who will help McCoy more than any other, if he winds up being our QB again this coming year.
For the Browns, no deal for Robert Griffin III was the right deal: Terry Pluto Published: Saturday, March 10, 2012, 1:19 PM Updated: Saturday, March 10, 2012, 2:24 PM Terry Pluto, The Plain Dealer By Terry Pluto, The Plain Dealer
CLEVELAND, Ohio -- Three first-round draft picks for Robert Griffin III?
I don't make that deal.
Yes, I know what Washington did, shipping its top draft picks in each of the next three years to St. Louis for the right to pick the Baylor quarterback. Also in the deal is Washington's 39th pick this season.
Maybe the man known as RG3 will be worth it. Maybe Browns fans will add the 'No Deal For RG3' to the list of laments, along with 'Red Right 88', 'The Drive' and the other stops on the local football trail of tears. Maybe failure to out-bid Washington will forever haunt the current front office of President Mike Holmgren and General Manager Tom Heckert.
But I doubt it. And I would not have risked it.
Griffin is a unique talent and an exceptional student. It would be a shock if he fails to become a good NFL quarterback. But great quarterbacks need superior players to help them reach those heights.
This trade would have almost assured the Browns of not being able to protect and maximize Griffin's talent. Losing the top picks over the next few seasons cuts off the main flow of talent.
Besides, do we really know what was the final price? Suppose the Browns actually offered their top two first-rounders this season, plus their top pick in 2013, plus a second round pick. There is a report that the Browns did offer three first-rounders, but that was "too late."
I doubt it ... either the offer, or that it was "too late." The draft is April 26. Trades can't even be announced until Tuesday.
But suppose the Browns were willing to trade three first-rounders, would that have been enough? Who knows? Washington could have raised its offer because Washington is reckless and desperate, a combination that rarely leads to success.
Two weeks ago, I wrote a column saying the price for Griffin would probably include three first-round picks. Several readers argued otherwise. They mentioned the infamous Jimmy Johnson draft value chart along with some history where no more than a pair of first-rounders were part of mega-deals for rookie quarterbacks.
My counter was two words: Daniel Snyder.
The Washington owner doesn't care what he pays for free agents, trades or coaches. He spends wildly and cares little about next year's team. The problem is that he's not won in the present, despite all the big money and big names. In the last three years, Washington is 5-11, 6-10 and 4-12. Since Snyder bought the team in 1999, Washington has had only three winning seasons -- and six head coaches.
Why would a respected football man such as Mike Shanahan make this trade?
A) His owner wants it.
B) His record in his first two seasons was 5-11 and 6-10.
C) If he doesn't win now, he'll be fired because Snyder likes to hire and fire big-name coaches. So he won't have to worry about the future and those draft choices.
Some fans and media people say that no matter what Washington was willing to pay, the Browns should have paid more -- as if making the deal (even a damaging one) is the same as turning a losing team into a legitimate playoff contender.
But the opposite could be true.
Giving up three first-round picks, a second-round pick, and who knows what else very well could have ensured that the Browns remain out of the playoff picture for a long time -- despite the excitement that Griffin might have brought to Cleveland web page
Quote: I doubt it ... either the offer, or that it was "too late." The draft is April 26. Trades can't even be announced until Tuesday.
I don't suppose we'll ever know for sure, but to me, this is what it really boils down to.. we don't know if the browns ACTUALLY made an offer or if the Rams were starting that rumor in order to drive the bidding up.
I mean, we literally only have one reporter using another report as a source that is using another reporter as a source.. how in the hell can anyone trust that?
j/c In the end I am glad we didn't go all in on the RG3 sweepstakes. In C-town or in Washington at this price the only one he could throw it to for the next few years is himself.
IMHO, both teams have so many problems to fix that I don't think having RG3 is going to matter too much. In the end, whether we traded with the Rams or Washington traded with the Rams, the winner is the Rams when they hear "With the first pick in the 2013 NFL draft, the St. Louis Rams select..." With the Redskins problems, they might hear that in 2014 too!! I think this might be a case where the "winner" might be the "loser". I am ready to turn the page and hope the FO does it's job and gets quality / value AND QUANTITY in this draft and drafts to come.
Did I want RG3? Sure. But at that price it's like buying a Corvette and then having to live in the parent's basement for the 10 years because you are out of cash. Just my $0.02
LO effing L @ Washington. They just traded 3 1st round draft picks for Akili Smith 2.0. Way to go idiots!
Man this is looking GREAT for us.
#4 - Justin Blackmon trade #22 and 4th rounder to move up to 15-16 range - Ryan Tannehill #37 - best DE on board (Mercilus / Perry / Ingram) 3rd round - best CB on board (Brandon Boykin) 4th round - Bernard Pierce 5th round - Best RT on board
Call it a draft.
FANTASTIC. I am soooo glad we didn't over pay out the wazooo for this kid. I think he's a 95% chance bust. Even if by some miracle he does pan out, it's not worth the cost and risk associated with that deal.
the Browns have no choice but to return to the formula that turned the Browns pass defense into the 2nd best in the NFL
Post the the 3rd worst rushing defense in the NFL?
That's BS...our TOTAL/game was 3rd worst...AVG/play was at 4.4 and we were t19th with that....when you just win 4 games and trail in most games of course the total numbers go up
Ok, at the end of the day only two teams gave up more yards on the ground than the Browns did, but we'll change it to bottom-third rushing defense. Make you feel better? Is that something to hang our hats on? 11 teams were worse than us, instead of 2? Color me unimpressed.
Bottom line: our run defense blew, statistical ranking be damned.
Quote: Wow, Hooley sounds just like every other fan board poster who just found out we wouldn't sell the future for their man crush 2ndbest qb in the draft this year
Anybody have the pleasure of listening to this tool actually speak via radio? My LORD, did he ever annoy me on The Fan here in C-Bus.
Quote: I'm really getting sick and tired of these negative nancies here. OMG! We didn't mortgage our future to land RGIII.. "OH NOES WE ARE GOING TO STINK FOREVER!"
I haven't really seen a lot of complaining other than a couple guys. Lets not start making generalizations on the last page you read from 1 or 2 posters.
I guess that is true, but they have been very vocal about it. But it's not the end of the world as they try to make it. I'm just glad we didn't trade the farm for RGiii.
But my 3 would be..
1. Kalil - create a great OL with two solid LT on both sides, assuming Kalil can handle the right as good as the left.
LO effing L @ Washington. They just traded 3 1st round draft picks for Akili Smith 2.0. Way to go idiots!
Man this is looking GREAT for us.
#4 - Justin Blackmon trade #22 and 4th rounder to move up to 15-16 range - Ryan Tannehill #37 - best DE on board (Mercilus / Perry / Ingram) 3rd round - best CB on board (Brandon Boykin) 4th round - Bernard Pierce 5th round - Best RT on board
Call it a draft.
FANTASTIC. I am soooo glad we didn't over pay out the wazooo for this kid. I think he's a 95% chance bust. Even if by some miracle he does pan out, it's not worth the cost and risk associated with that deal.
You would trade up 4 tannehill when there is maybe 1 team between 15-16 range and 22, that would draft a QB (titans)?????
I dont care what anybody says, Tannehill is not first round talent!!!!! If we did pick him at 22 its a reach. I would rather get a plug n play starter with the pick like solid OL/DL. There are some really good DL and OL in this draft. I would love for Melvin Ingram to be there @ 22 but that is just a dream.
Evaluating the Redskins Trade for Robert Griffin III March 10, 2012 by kevinmeers
Baylor's Robert Griffin III
On Friday night, reports emerged that the Washington Redskins had agreed to give the St. Louis Rams their first and second round picks this year, along with their 2013 and 2014 first round picks in exchange for the second overall pick. While there are a number of storylines in this trade, this post examines the expected value that the Redskins sacrificed to get the second overall pick. Because I grew up in Washington, this post is Redskins-centric. If you are wondering how it affects the Rams, just flip all of the analysis below.
Using my previous analysis of the draft, this post examines two things: first, how much the Redskins actually paid for Robert Griffin III, and second, how well RGIII has to perform to justify this price. Because this trade involves future draft picks whose exact overall number is impossible to know, we must assign some value to them. Since teams cannot know what draft position they will have the following year, I assume that the expected value of those picks is the average of the picks in that round. For example, a future first round pick is worth the average value of all picks in the first round. Using this assumption, I evaluate this trade and compare it to the Julio Jones and Ricky Williams trades from previous years.
From an expected value perspective, the Redskins definitively lost this trade (to put it mildly). The second overall pick carries an expected Career Approximate Value Over Average (eCAVOA) of 435.4. The 6th and 38th overall picks have a combined eCAVOA of 525.1. If the Redskins had given up just these picks, they would have lost 89.7 eCAVOA, which is the equivalent of the 114th overall pick (the middle of the 4th round).
If this price had been the extent of the trade, it would have been defensible. A 525.1 eCAVOA translates to a CAV of 78.7, essentially equaling Matt Hasselbeck’s CAV. So RGIII would have only had to equal Hasselbeck for this trade to be equal.
However, the Redskins gave much more: their next two first round draft picks. The average expected value of a first round pick is 276.8 eCAVOA, which brings the total eCAVOA the Redskins gave up to 1078.7. The Rams only gave up 435.4 eCAVOA, giving them a net gain of 643.3 eCAVOA, equivalent to the first and 57th overall draft picks.
However, the above calculations assume that picks this year have equal value to picks in the future. Since that assumption is false, we have to discount the value of those draft picks. We can calculate the discount rate the Redskins placed on their future first round picks by setting the values on each side of this trade equal to each other, with r equal to the discount rate:
276.8/(1+r)n + 276.8/(1+r)n+1 = -89.8 + surplus value
This equation cannot be solved where surplus value = 0. Even if r equaled infinity, this equation would not balance without a surplus. The only way it could be possible would be if the Redskins negatively valued their future first round draft picks. Given their previous willingness to trade away picks, this may not be far off. However, assuming that having first round picks is actually good for your team, this trade is awful for the Redskins.
But just how bad was this trade? In The Loser’s Curse, Cade Massey and Richard Thaler found that teams discount future draft picks at a rate of 173%. I agree with the authors’ comment that this discount rate is “staggering”, but it is much less clear what rate teams should use. With this value, our equation becomes:
276.8/(2.73) + 276.8/(2.73)2 = -89.8 + surplus value
138.5 = -89.8 + surplus value
228.3 = surplus value
An eCAVOA of 228.3 equates to the 22nd overall pick. So with this trade, the Redskins lost the expected value equivalent to the 22nd overall pick.
But let’s not jump to conclusions. RGIII could be better than the average second overall pick. In fact, he could be the best second overall pick ever. So how good does RGIII have to be to justify this trade?
Given the discounted value of the future draft picks, the total price the Redskins paid was 753.5 eCAVOA. That price translates to a CAV of 113.0, comparable to Tom Brady’s current production to date (109 CAV). For the Redskins to get the equivalent value from RGIII as they spent acquiring him, he must produce at least as much as Tom Brady. If RGIII merely lives up to his eCAVOA, he’ll finish his career having slightly outperformed David Garrard (61 CAV). Because all-time-great quarterbacks are rare commodities, the Redskins likely lost value both on paper and in reality.
This trade is very comparable to some of the most lopsided trades from the past few years. Last offseason, the Atlanta Falcons gave the 26th, 69th, and 124th, overall picks along with their 1st and 4th round picks this year for the 6th overall pick, which they used on Julio Jones. The calculations below determine the value they lost from this trade.
This calculation shows that the Falcons sacrificed almost the exact same value to acquire Jones as the Redskins did for RGIII. For the Falcons to get the same value from Jones as they spent drafting him, he must perform similarly to Keyshawn Johnson (78 CAV).
For what it’s worth, the Redskins trade is still much better than the Saints’ trade for Ricky Williams. In 1999, the Saints traded the 12th, 71st, 107th, 144th, 179th, 218th, along with a first and fourth rounder the following year for the 5th overall pick.
665.7 + 276.8/2.73 + 91.9/2.73 = 357.1 + surplus value
443.7 = surplus value
That surplus is almost exactly double what the Falcons and Redskins gave up in their trades. For the Saints to get the production that they paid for out of Williams, he would have had to perform as well as Barry Sanders (CAV of 122). A Hall-of-Fame career is too much to expect from any draft pick.
Regardless of the rationale behind this move, the Redskins lost a tremendous amount of value in this trade, potentially setting the team back for years. If RGIII does not pan out – whether because of talent or injury – Washington would be left with no quarterback and no first round draft picks for the next two years. Regardless of RGIII’s future, the Redskins lost about as much expected value as the Falcons gave up last year to acquire Julio Jones. While RGIII will bring excitement to Washington, the conclusion here is clear. This trade was a bad move by the Redskins, and one of the worst moves in recent history. Vintage Redskins.
Quote: I think we will look back on this and laugh one day. I am laughing now and feel much better about this team going forward. It show's we are in good hands and are sticking with the plan of building through the draft.
Weren't we going to build through the draft by trading for Griffin?
I also think that's worth noting we CLEARLY were offering multiple 1st rounders here. The question is if we did indeed offer 3 first round plus more but just came up short.
If we are in good hands with Heckert and Holmgren, keep in mind they were willing to give up the farm for Griffin.
Quote: If you ask me today is a good day to be a Brown's fan and am excited for the draft and see what Heckert has up his sleeves.
I think we saw what Heck had up his sleeve, which was to give up the farm for Griffin. That didn't work because the Deadskins offered an even more ridiculous deal to get their guy.
Count me as one of the people who wanted to replace McCoy with Griffin. However, ALSO count me as one of the people who would have said no long before it came to offering three first round picks PLUS a second round pick for him. In that vein, I'm glad we didn't do it, as there just wouldn't have been any blue-chip draftees in our future to make us a winner. We'd have been going down the road of over-paying for free agents, and that's just not a recipe for success.
Now if you mean you're excited to see what Heck does next, well, I'm excited for our very first pick, but after that? I'm not excited about Tannehill. I'm not excited about any of the other QB's in this draft. I'm not excited about McCoy, and clearly neither are Heck and Holmgren.
I'm excited for the long term future of the team because of how many draft picks we have, but for this next season, well, let the rebuilding continue behind a QB who has nobody's faith in the FO.
Bringing this back full-circle to what I'd typed, I AM excited because we've got AT LEAST 3 picks in the first 37, and that could turn into more. That's the very worst thing that could have happened to us. However, if you're saying that you're excited because Heckert made this great decision not to go after Griffin, I think that's incorrect logic. It looks for all the world to me that he wanted to try to offer even MORE than the the 3 1st rounders, but the Deadskins weren't going to allow it to happen.
Just conversation here, because I'm NOT going to bemoan the fact we didn't get Griffin because the price was just too high.
While I can't disagree with the spirit of your post, comparing him to Akili Smith is moronic and probably at heart some form of bigotry/racism
-Smith had one good year, could not run, was by all regards not very intellegent but he was black -RGIII was a fourth year junior, earned his college degree and is known for his intelligence and leadership, had 2 very good years and 1 great, won Heismann and is black
While I did want him, the price was too steep for me. His closest comparison would be Vick b/c of athleticism and arm strenght but RGIII appears to be the better human, scholar, and leader.....we'll see....personally, he's truly unique and w/o comparison at this point. Will be glad to follow his career
Every single statement about the Browns offering anything goes straight back to Adam Schefter and his report. A report that is about as likely as Hillis joing the CIA. Until heckert says he tried to trade up to 2, I wont believe it. He said he asked about Bradford and about Newton, so I am pretty sure he will say if he called to trade up for Griffin.
Quote: To you and Otto, the people bemoaning this trade aren't upset with Heckert for not topping the deal, just for the fact that we're stuck with mediocre QB options.
BS. You and Ytown and all the other moaners are pissed because we didn't get your guy. Period.
Free Agency hasn't started and the Draft is a month and a half away but you've already decided that we're doomed.
You guys really need to take a cold shower, take a deep breath and quit your bitchin'. At least until the Draft is over. When you MIGHT, MAYBE have a reason to gripe.
Talk about overreacting......
Right, I was bummed because we're not going to get the guy that I thought would improve our team the most... the only guy in this draft (after Luck, who we had no shot at) who could significantly improve our QB situation.
What's wrong with that?
I didn't once say we should have outbid the Redskins. I said the Redskins were crazy to give up that much for anybody. I said it put them i a bad situation, put Griffin in a bad situation, and keeps us in the bad situation we've been in.
I said the only parties benefitting from this were the Rams, Shanahan, and Luck.
the Browns have no choice but to return to the formula that turned the Browns pass defense into the 2nd best in the NFL
Post the the 3rd worst rushing defense in the NFL?
But aren't we told repeatedly by those advocating that we needed to get RG3 that it's a passing league? If that's the case, what are we concerned about if the rush defense is 30th? It's a pass league, right?
He's how I'm seeing it. We need to improve our LBs and increasing our pass D (a top-quality CB does that). Adding some pass rushing would help contribute to that by causing some turnovers and setting up a field position advantage.
Improving the OL, especially the interior part of the line and getting some legit receivers will help.
I know, that's a lot of holes to fill. You don't have to fill all of them at once, but a certain poster thinks that 13 picks - 9 regular picks and 4 compensatory ones, is plenty enough of them. I don't think that you can have too many picks, especially since the compensatory picks can't be traded and they'll be no higher than 5th or 6th rounders.
Signing just a single FA to fill one hole is sufficient, but getting two would be ideal.
We have 6 picks in the first 4 rounds (2-1st, 1-2nd, 1-3rd, 2-4th). We can fill a lot of holes with quality players with those picks. If we wanted, we could package the 5th, 6th and 7th with some of those and move up more in a round or up into an earlier round
Then use those compensatory (2-5ths, 2-6ths) to add depth or special teams players.
I want to know, from all these self-styled gurus, why we won't find quality players with those first six selections?
I really like RG3 and I am disappointed he won't be an option for us at #4. If we made the same trade Washington did, I feel it would have crippled our chances of really rebuilding this team. QB is just one of many needs that we have.
I do hope now we really make a smart decision on Flynn. Overpaying for him would also hurt.
If we lose 2 or 3 of our first 4 next season, we should just tank the rest to ensure we have the top pick.
In response to the poser you replied to ....... all I would like to know is: Who are we going to get in free agency who is a comparable talent? Really, when it comes down to it, who are we going to get in the draft who is a comparable talent?
Quote: I really like RG3 and I am disappointed he won't be an option for us at #4. If we made the same trade Washington did, I feel it would have crippled our chances of really rebuilding this team. QB is just one of many needs that we have.
I do hope now we really make a smart decision on Flynn. Overpaying for him would also hurt.
If we lose 2 or 3 of our first 4 next season, we should just tank the rest to ensure we have the top pick.
Why even play? We didn't overpay for RG3 - Are Lives Are Over!
Quote: I really like RG3 and I am disappointed he won't be an option for us at #4. If we made the same trade Washington did, I feel it would have crippled our chances of really rebuilding this team. QB is just one of many needs that we have.
I do hope now we really make a smart decision on Flynn. Overpaying for him would also hurt.
If we lose 2 or 3 of our first 4 next season, we should just tank the rest to ensure we have the top pick.
Why even play? We didn't overpay for RG3 - Are Lives Are Over!
Perhaps I misread the tone of your posts. But it seemed to me that your tone was along the lines of, "We didn't sell the farm to buy that sleek new tractor so we're doomed to failure", so to speak.
I know many are disappointed that RG3 will soon be a Redskin. Truth be told, I am too. A little.
But as sure as I'm sitting here posting on a Browns board in March I believe the 'skins will be hard pressed to come up with a winning record in the next half dozen years because of what they had to give up to get their new QB.
I also believe that no matter what we offered, DC would have topped it. Which is why I'm only a little disappointed we won't get to bring RG3's talents to the North Coast - I never really thought he'd be coming here.
At this point in time I choose to believe that what lies ahead will strengthen the team more than giving up "the farm" for immediate gratification. If only because if Daniel Snyder and the Redskins thought it was a good idea it probably isn't.
Quote: I really like RG3 and I am disappointed he won't be an option for us at #4. If we made the same trade Washington did, I feel it would have crippled our chances of really rebuilding this team. QB is just one of many needs that we have.
I do hope now we really make a smart decision on Flynn. Overpaying for him would also hurt.
If we lose 2 or 3 of our first 4 next season, we should just tank the rest to ensure we have the top pick.
Why even play? We didn't overpay for RG3 - Are Lives Are Over!
If you don't object, I have a few thoughts on your comments:
Quote: Weren't we going to build through the draft by trading for Griffin?
Yes, but not by giving away 4 picks to get 1. Especially when 3 of the 4 picks were 1st rounders... you can't build through the draft if you keep giving it away
Quote: I also think that's worth noting we CLEARLY were offering multiple 1st rounders here.
CLEARLY? well, maybe you've seen where someone from the Browns has said we offered anything.. But really, all I've seen is that it was Reported by a reporter and then re-reported by another then another and so on and so on.
I think I read that Heckert said they spoke to the Rams.. but I don't remember anyone saying that we offered anything? I'm not at all convinced that the Rams didn't float that in order to wrangle more out of the Redskins..
Quote: If we are in good hands with Heckert and Holmgren, keep in mind they were willing to give up the farm for Griffin.
Again, I don't believe it.. remember, these "offers" that supposedly came from the Browns were reported first by a guy that covers the Rams in St. Louis. It was then picked up by a bunch of other reporters that, thankfully, credited the St. Louis guy for the story.
Pluto even doubted an offer was made in his column today.. it's posted here somewhere..but for sure you can find it at www.cleveland.com.
Quote: I think we saw what Heck had up his sleeve, which was to give up the farm for Griffin.
3 of the first four lines of your response that i'm quoting make the same point.. and unless I missed something, it's unsubstantiated..
Quote: It looks for all the world to me that he wanted to try to offer even MORE than the the 3 1st rounders, but the Deadskins weren't going to allow it to happen.
again?
the truth is, none of us actually know if the Browns made any kinda legitimate offer for the 2nd pick in the draft...
As for not caring that we didn't go crazy to get RG3, I'm with you
Unless someone can show me where the Browns have said they offered something... it can't be confirmed..
I can't in total disagree, but something tells me a QB is the biggest piece to the puzzle. A piece that is still missing...at least as of now and the prospects aren't nearly as good.
No matter what, even if we had gotten the QB, we'd still have to build the other parts of the team..... so, we're completely green-lighted to do that now and the QB issue gets pushed back a year.
Next year is simply Year 2 in the rebuild (the last year under Mangini was just kind of a completely lost year because we tossed everything aside when we tossed him out), we were/are NOT going to be contenders and no QB was going to change that... so, it's not all that bad. We're BUILDING. Getting RG3 wouldn't have magically put us into the BUILT category. Hell, it would have only (theoretically) checked off one need.
I don't see it that way. Next year is year 3. Both Holmgren and Heckert were here in both year 1 and 2. They don't get a "bye year" because they wanted someone to be a scapegoat for a really tough schedule. This is year 3 of the program. Heckert didn't draft anyone when Mangini was here who doesn't fit under Shurmur/Jauron. In fact, Heckert brought in a guy in Mitchell who had no position on a Mangini team. That tells all that needs told about when they knew they were changing coaches.
Quote: Every single statement about the Browns offering anything goes straight back to Adam Schefter and his report. A report that is about as likely as Hillis joing the CIA. Until heckert says he tried to trade up to 2, I wont believe it. He said he asked about Bradford and about Newton, so I am pretty sure he will say if he called to trade up for Griffin.
I agree, until we have conformation, then it's all just speculations.
But hey ... that never stopped some from posting it as fact.
I'm just glad the speculation for us trading up is finally over.
I'm also not surprised Snyder mortgaged their future Draft picks away ... he has always been a big FA spender and values his draft picks very little.
Quote: They don't get a "bye year" because they wanted someone to be a scapegoat for a really tough schedule. This is year 3 of the program. Heckert didn't draft anyone when Mangini was here who doesn't fit under Shurmur/Jauron. In fact, Heckert brought in a guy in Mitchell who had no position on a Mangini team. That tells all that needs told about when they knew they were changing coaches.
Dude, you need to readjust your trousers.....Your Mangini love is showing again.....
Quote: They don't get a "bye year" because they wanted someone to be a scapegoat for a really tough schedule. This is year 3 of the program. Heckert didn't draft anyone when Mangini was here who doesn't fit under Shurmur/Jauron. In fact, Heckert brought in a guy in Mitchell who had no position on a Mangini team. That tells all that needs told about when they knew they were changing coaches.
Dude, you need to readjust your trousers.....Your Mangini love is showing again.....
How is that anything resembling "Mangini Love"? Your Mangini Paranoia is showing, yet again.
We are in year 3 of the HH regime. We're not in year 2, as some would like to pretend. If a regime goes 3 years, then fires their head coach, they don't get a "do over" starting from scratch.
Diddling while Cleveland burns Mar 10, 2012 -- 12:25pm By Bruce Fooley
It doesn’t matter what you offered the Rams for the No. 2 pick. All that matters is you didn’t offer enough.
If SI.com’s Peter King is correct, you let Griffin get away because you weren’t willing to include a second-round choice – No. 37 overall – along with three No. 1 picks.
This is typical of Fooley..first,he wanted no part of Griffith,but his collegues talked him into changing his tune..next to slam them over this is utterly stupid even for him and his arrogant self-centered opinions..I wouldn't want the Browns to fork over 3 first round picks plus a second ..thats freaking stupid..
I think it's absolutely crazy how much the media is piling on the Browns as some type of loser for not meeting the asking price for RG3. I'm a bit taken a back by it quite honestly.
Seems like the Browns are everyones favorite whipping boy.
Quote: I really like RG3 and I am disappointed he won't be an option for us at #4. If we made the same trade Washington did, I feel it would have crippled our chances of really rebuilding this team. QB is just one of many needs that we have.
I do hope now we really make a smart decision on Flynn. Overpaying for him would also hurt.
If we lose 2 or 3 of our first 4 next season, we should just tank the rest to ensure we have the top pick.
First, I don't think you'll find any players 'tanking' any game during the season. I don't even think you'll have the coaching staff doing it because another 4 or 5 win season will likely mean their dismissal as a coach.
Secondly, I have no inkling that we'll be overpaying for any free agent QB, whether it's Flynn, Peyton Manning, or anyone else.
As for RG3, I didn't dislike him. I just think that we have bigger needs for the team than a starting QB (yeah, I think McCoy with weapons and a stable system to work within will do just fine). He had none of that in either of the two years he's been here. And I thought the amount that some fans were willing to give up for him got me thinking that we have some really silly fans that just weren't thinking clearly at all.
If the Browns were even considering giving up three 1st round picks, they should have been talking to Indy for the services of Luck, not RG3. Even then, it would have been too much for my liking, but it would have left less of a bad taste in my mouth.
I have been a fan of this team for almost 40 years ..... game in and game out ...... living and dying with each victory, or far more often, loss.
I started following the Browns about the time I was 10 years old. That's 38 years ago.
What have I seen?
I have seen this team manage 12 winning seasons. 12. That means 23 losing seasons. (we lost 3 to oblivion when MoSMell screwed us) I have seen them go a combined 236-319. Think about that for a minute. I have lived every stinking year in a Steelers fan infested town ... hearing all about their 8 trips to, and 6 wins in the Super Bowl .... while we haven't even made it to one.
I have watched this team march out wretchedly awful players at the QB position, one after another after another ..... and we, surprise, keep losing.
Our best QB, from both a statistical and wins standpoints, since this team came back from non-existence, is Derek Anderson.
Think about that for a minute. Derek Anderson is the standard of excellence by which all others must be compared. he is the franchise leader in single season TD passes. The franchise leader.
I watched my beloved team stolen away, and then win a Super Bowl elsewhere.
Yes, I am sick of it. I'm not going to leave the team that I love ..... because even though it's an abusive relationship, I must somehow enjoy the beatings. I have been here for every single heartbreak ..... every single disgusting blowout, and the all too few high points that I could rub in Steelers fans' faces.
Go take a leap? I think not.
Just because I love this team doesn't mean that I cannot be disgusted with their inability to get things turned around. I don't think that a winning season now and then, or even a streak of winning seasons is too much to ask. Maybe you do. maybe you like losing. I don't. I am sick of it. I can't leave, but that doesn't mean that I am going to pretend that I am just fine with us stinking up the joint every freakin' year.
If you can't handle that, then maybe you should take a leap.
Have a nice day.
That's a little better explanation.
I was where you are after the Browns/Steelers playoff game loss. I was ready to throw it all in but I then realized something, following a team is taking all the losses and wins the same...being a fan is just going along for the ride. It's entertainment. Sports are supposed to be fun and to help us get away from the daily grind.
Quote: I really like RG3 and I am disappointed he won't be an option for us at #4. If we made the same trade Washington did, I feel it would have crippled our chances of really rebuilding this team. QB is just one of many needs that we have.
I do hope now we really make a smart decision on Flynn. Overpaying for him would also hurt.
If we lose 2 or 3 of our first 4 next season, we should just tank the rest to ensure we have the top pick.
First, I don't think you'll find any players 'tanking' any game during the season. I don't even think you'll have the coaching staff doing it because another 4 or 5 win season will likely mean their dismissal as a coach.
Secondly, I have no inkling that we'll be overpaying for any free agent QB, whether it's Flynn, Peyton Manning, or anyone else.
As for RG3, I didn't dislike him. I just think that we have bigger needs for the team than a starting QB (yeah, I think McCoy with weapons and a stable system to work within will do just fine). He had none of that in either of the two years he's been here. And I thought the amount that some fans were willing to give up for him got me thinking that we have some really silly fans that just weren't thinking clearly at all.
If the Browns were even considering giving up three 1st round picks, they should have been talking to Indy for the services of Luck, not RG3. Even then, it would have been too much for my liking, but it would have left less of a bad taste in my mouth.
Totally agree. I like RG3 a lot and am bummed he's not coming to the Browns, but the fact that it was that team that traded up to get him, should make us feel better about the people in charge of our team. Daniel Snyder is one of the worst owners in professional sports. I believe he's worse than Mike Brown and Randy Lerner.
Dan Snyder didn't win anything. Some of these writers are trying to make him out to be some uber-bad-ass because the Browns brass weren't stupid enough to send away that much for one player.
Maybe that's why this happened now. Because the Rams were laughing on the other end of the phone as this deal was going down.
I'm still against trading down just to trade down, because pushing picks back another year (which is usually the situation) doesn't make you any better. If you do that every year like it seems we do, it puts us right where we are.
I see this as 3 picks in the top 37, and a chance to add 3 very good players. I want 3 mainstay players. I don't care what position. I don't want to chase a QB simply because we didn't get Griffin, although if Tannehill is high on their list or any of these other guys, do it. Just don't do it because you lost out on RG3. Stick to your plan. We've come this far, right?
I'm upset we lost out, but I'm also happy that Tom Heckert won't be taken to the cleaners. Not that guy. Glad he's on our side.
Quote: I think it's absolutely crazy how much the media is piling on the Browns as some type of loser for not meeting the asking price for RG3. I'm a bit taken a back by it quite honestly.
Seems like the Browns are everyones favorite whipping boy.
That will change once Washington stumbles out of the gate with their rookie QB and no first round picks to build a team around him with for the next couple of Drafts.
I can foresee them having cap problems down the road too, because they will have to spend big in FA.
Also I hope that the Rams don't get Blackmon or Claiborne either at # 6.
Quote: The Redskins will now get Heisman Trophy quarterback Robert Griffin to lead their franchise into the next decade.
If that actually happens. It's not guaranteed.
Quote: It doesn’t matter what you offered the Rams for the No. 2 pick. All that matters is you didn’t offer enough.
Yes it did matter what they offered. They offered enough to show they were willing to do anything within reason to acquire a top-rated QB prospect. What they were not willing to do was make NFL history in giving up picks.
Quote: Washington met St. Louis’ price – believed to be the first time in NFL history a team has traded three No. 1 picks for another first-rounder.
Unprecedented, yet the Browns are fools for not doing it?
While Washington is known for making big, bold overpaying deals and getting nothing in return.
Quote: If it’s true they balked on making the RG3 deal with Washington to preserve a second-round choice, that ranks as H&H’s dumbest move yet.
Allowing a second-rounder to stand between them and a possible transcendent talent at the most important position in football is akin to walking away from a home purchase because of a $5,000 difference in price.
No, it's akin to NOT paying more to move up two spots than has ever been paid in the history of the NFL.
Quote: Similarly, the second-rounder the Browns preserved is unlikely to make any appreciable difference in the team’s fortunes going forward.
Maybe not. But the #22, #37 and next year's #1 will certainly make an appreciable difference in the team's fortunes going forward.
Quote: Bruce Hooley hosts The Hooligans from 3-6 p.m. weekdays on ESPN 850 WKNR.
Now I see I've wasted my time responding to this 'KNR idiot.
I think the bottom line is, anyone who is cracking on the Browns just needs to look back at the details of that deal.
3 first round picks, a second round pick, and you aren't even getting the top player at his position in the draft?
It was too much for anyone but a moron like Daniel Snyder.
What would be funny now, is if RG3, who said on record he hopes whatever team takes him doesn't give up too much, pulls an Eli Manning and says he doesn't want to play for Washington. Not gonna happen but it''d be funny.
Quote: I think it's absolutely crazy how much the media is piling on the Browns as some type of loser for not meeting the asking price for RG3. I'm a bit taken a back by it quite honestly.
Seems like the Browns are everyones favorite whipping boy.
That will change once Washington stumbles out of the gate with their rookie QB and no first round picks to build a team around him with for the next couple of Drafts.
I can foresee them having cap problems down the road too, because they will have to spend big in FA.
Also I hope that the Rams don't get Blackmon or Claiborne either at # 6.
U said something I thought about this morning..no freaking way would I do a tradedown with them..and I wish I knew who they really want at 6 and take that player..I have no problem if the Browns draft either Blackmon or Claiborne..I like both ..U guys know I like my corners..but I have liked Blackmon for a while,he's a baller.
Quote: I think it's absolutely crazy how much the media is piling on the Browns as some type of loser for not meeting the asking price for RG3. I'm a bit taken a back by it quite honestly.
Seems like the Browns are everyones favorite whipping boy.
That will change once Washington stumbles out of the gate with their rookie QB and no first round picks to build a team around him with for the next couple of Drafts.
I can foresee them having cap problems down the road too, because they will have to spend big in FA.
Also I hope that the Rams don't get Blackmon or Claiborne either at # 6.
U said something I thought about this morning..no freaking way would I do a tradedown with them..and I wish I knew who they really want at 6 and take that player..I have no problem if the Browns draft either Blackmon or Claiborne..I like both ..U guys know I like my corners..but I have liked Blackmon for a while,he's a baller.
I just think that either of those two would fit in with our needs as well as TB's needs too.
I don't think we can go wrong with either of those two at # 4.
Attack, If they are REALLY in love with one of those two and for some reason we were not, I would be really happy to do to them what they did to the Redskins and drop 2 spots. I would want at least a #1 next year and something in the 3 or 4 range this year. If not, I am more than happy to stay with our picks. Actually, I said a few pages ago, if the Vikes take Kalil, we are in the drivers seat and we can either shop for best deal or just take either of these 2 guys that would fill a big need for us.
Wow,, I'm really afraid for some fans. I mean, that guy in the video,, wow,, that is a total nutbag.
I'm also a wondering where did the reporters get the information that the team had made an actual offer?
I'll ask this again, Heckert said that rumors of them trading up to get the 2nd pick were crazy. to those that wanted RG3, it's misdirection. to those of us that didn't care, it's,, hey,, he said it was crazy.. why was anyone suprised when he didn't do it?
It's funny how a persons hopes change the meanings of things said....
I wouldn't be surprised if we did make that kind of offer to move up.
I will say there's a part of me that's a little skeptical, though. Most of that centers around, if we were willing to give up 2 firsts this year and a first next year, the dealbreaker was that we didn't want to give up no. 37 this year. But, if I was the Rams, I'd rather have 2 this year and 1 next year but not get no. 37 than get the 'Skins' 2nd this year, a 1st next year, and a 1st the following year. But, that's just me.
Quote: Wow, Hooley sounds just like every other fan board poster who just found out we wouldn't sell the future for their man crush 2ndbest qb in the draft this year. And this "it was just a 2nd round pick difference" stuff has to stop until a real source (holmgren/heckert) confirms it on the record, otherwise it is just rumor and conjecture.
We are going to be a far better TEAM for not doing this trade.
And that second round nonsense is simply ludicrous. He goes on about a second round pick being nothing of value that couldn't be surrendered but then speaks about Cincy making the playoffs last year with Dalton, a second round pick. Wait! Did Hooley even consider the stupidity of his argument?
wow, i'm coming to the news really late. Just about fell out of my chair when i see 3 firsts (really two and changing #2 for #6) and the second rounder- yikes- that is a boat load of picks. Good for the rams, Fisher has got to be really excited about how fast he is going to be able to transform the rams. Poor RGIII, he is going to a losing franchise with a coach on the hot seat and no future high round picks to fix the problems....
I am really glad the browns did not do this trade, we are just not in the postion to take a QB without having some other pieces added to the mix.
I do not take a QB early this year. I've seen Tannehill, and he doesn't excite me one bit- well at least not in the top ten like some are saying. The #22 would be more palatable. I like next years class of QB's much better. The kid from Arkansas would look good in Cleveland. I would really like to trade back, pick up a first next year- and then have some ammunition to go get one of either Barkley, Jones or Wilson. And who knows- maybe with an off season to prepare, we don't even need the QB. Here is hoping Colt can figure it out.
For this year, the best case scenario right now is Manning signing with Arizona- and we add Kolb to the mix to battle it out with Colt. Kolb is a WCO QB that got stuck in a bad situation, again with no offseason to figure out a new offense.
All week been reading things like reports Heckert wouldnt include the 22nd pick or the 2nd round pick. Rams are suprised the Browns have shown very little interest. Heckert saying things like we Like Weeden (sp?) I know hes 28 but I may not be here in 6 years.
I think most of the talk about the Browns matching those offers are exagereated personally and just written so as to make it look like Washington got one over on us which I dont think was the case at all.
I dont care if the whole NFL world laughs at us and says Washington pulled the rug from under us I think we did that to them. They have now overpayed for a QB and are now out of the sweepstakes next year along with Indy both having their Franchise guys.
The media is just mad they cant try to hype up something now in fact today I had to laugh at the local talking heads they are now saying we should take Tann at #4. Ive lost almost all respect for most those on the air today as being anything but sensationalist. I mean come on the 3rd best at his pos over the best at any of the other 20 (assuming minny doesnt take a QB or trade down to someone who does)
Ive said before I want Blackmon but would be perfectly happy with any of the CB WR OT RB avialable to us at #4. At 22 I like Floyd/Wright Minny. or Tann. I dont know when I first heard that Washington made the trade I knew we will have a great draft again this year. A calming effect took over. We didnt give up the farm, tractor, and seeds to buy a spreader.
not sure but I really think Payton wants to stay in the AFC already said he wont play in the NFC East. I think they both have a dream to play against each other in the SB and of course money talks but if its close I could see Payton staying in the AFC somewhere like Denver or KC or even Miami if they wanted to toss their hat in the ring.
Quote: Every single statement about the Browns offering anything goes straight back to Adam Schefter and his report. A report that is about as likely as Hillis joing the CIA. Until heckert says he tried to trade up to 2, I wont believe it. He said he asked about Bradford and about Newton, so I am pretty sure he will say if he called to trade up for Griffin.
We are in year 3 of the HH regime. We're not in year 2, as some would like to pretend. If a regime goes 3 years, then fires their head coach, they don't get a "do over" starting from scratch.
Got any more excuses to use?
We're in year 3 of Holmgren and Heckert? Really? Technically, I suppose you're right.
Let's equate your thinking, though, to that of a high school student. They go to school as a freshman (year 1), they go to school as a sophomore (year 2). Technically, after the last day of their sophomore year, they are a jr, right? They are in year 3.
What you are doing is comparing a "1 day past sophomore" student - a jr. - to a "completed" jr. year.
Here: We're in year 3 of H H. About 1 day in - and you're calling them a failure already???
How's about letting the season actually play out. Heck, just let the draft and free agency play out before throwing in the towel on year 3.........would that be hard?
So we won't apparently get Griffin - your boy - big deal. That's reason enough for you to say year 3 "was" a waste?
I will say this: Griffin better be all world times 3. Why? Because if he's not - the redskins will be paying for a long, long time. If griffin is even average at qb - and that's a big IF - the redskins hurt themselves.
Reality. It's a neat place to live. And, being as I'm a Kenny Chesney fan - he's got a neat song about reality. Might want to listen to it sometime.
Quote: I think it's absolutely crazy how much the media is piling on the Browns as some type of loser for not meeting the asking price for RG3. I'm a bit taken a back by it quite honestly.
Seems like the Browns are everyones favorite whipping boy.
That will change once Washington stumbles out of the gate with their rookie QB and no first round picks to build a team around him with for the next couple of Drafts.
I can foresee them having cap problems down the road too, because they will have to spend big in FA.
Also I hope that the Rams don't get Blackmon or Claiborne either at # 6.
I agree on not wanting St Louis to get either at #6.
The way I look at it is we probably have Blackmon and Claiborne as our top two guys at #4. Tampa's biggest needs are CB, OLB,and MLB. St. Louis needs WR, LT, DT, OLB, and CB. I'll go one further with Jacksonville...DT, CB, WR. (Buffalo at 10 and Dallas at 14 need CBs too) That's a lot of CB needs and we hold the cards. I can definitely see us trading down from #4. Though moving down to the 7-9 area scares me a little. At this point, if we trade, I'd be pulling for a flip flop with Tampa (for a 4th) to take whomever is left over or Dallas at 14 (for their 2013 #1) so they can take Claiborne.
Though, my thinking is exactly how I projected my mock a week ago. We take Claiborne, and Jacksonville jumps St Louis to take Blackmon at 5. And St Louis gets Reiff. A few weeks ago an article I read stated at least one team saw Reiff as better than Kalil, maybe it was St. Louis?
I keep reading in this thread about 3 first rounds picks they gave up . I guess my math skills are shot in my aging years ,but I thought they SWAPPED positions in the first round this year and THEN added two firsts in the following years ( plus whatever) " Wow I can't believe they gave up THREE first round picks..." THEY DIDN'T More like 2 and 1/8 Firsts..
Lets at least TRY to keep the facts straight here and let the Media "twist" the truths as they see fit.
And for the record, the price WAS too high, but they have RGIII now and we have.. uh... well, hope.
If that would happen, then I would think it would be because they really want Claiborne ... I would take Blackmon at # 5 and another (high) 2nd round pick.
Quote: I keep reading in this thread about 3 first rounds picks they gave up . I guess my math skills are shot in my aging years ,but I thought they SWAPPED positions in the first round this year and THEN added two firsts in the following years ( plus whatever) " Wow I can't believe they gave up THREE first round picks..." THEY DIDN'T More like 2 and 1/8 Firsts..
Lets at least TRY to keep the facts straight here and let the Media "twist" the truths as they see fit.
And for the record, the price WAS too high, but they have RGIII now and we have.. uh... well, hope.
I know what you are saying as I once thought like that....but no swap....it was a trade of 3 first rounders + 2nd in exchange for one first rounder that was 2 slots higher. Place players in those draft slots....the 'skins TRADED 4 players for RG3. You wouldn't say they swapped John Doe for RG3 and traded 3 other players for nothing.
I'm going to go ahead and stick my neck out there and predict RG3 to be a bust. I've been quiet on this issue from the get-go, but I thought he'd be a bust from the get-go.
Now I think it even more so.
He's going to the Redskins. A team that has evaded an identity through its attempts to establish one: big splashes in free agency. They have been so hell-bent on crazy contracts and mortgaging the farm for instant gratification, that they have failed to establish culture and continuity. They have brought in many players that haven't worked and attracted a plethora of me-first personalities. This has led them to residing in the cellar of their division seemingly year-in-and out.
Now RG3 has all the weight on his shoulders (even more than Luck I think) to perform and perform well right out of the gate. AND, he's got to do it on a team that has failed so many times to improve itself by throwing money at instant gratification. Oh, by the way, they'll be without a first round pick for quite a while now, leaving less room for improvement.
Ok , I'll play that game.. I'll give you a William Green, Brady Quinn, Kellen Winslow and a Braylon Edwards for RGIII , and I'll even throw in a Courtney Brown for a tip. Wanna trade ?
Quote: Ok , I'll play that game.. I'll give you a William Green, Brady Quinn, Kellen Winslow and a Braylon Edwards for RGIII , and I'll even throw in a Courtney Brown for a tip. Wanna trade ?
Don't you mean you will swap Courtney Brown for RG3 and trade the others for nothing?
Quote: Ok , I'll play that game.. I'll give you a William Green, Brady Quinn, Kellen Winslow and a Braylon Edwards for RGIII , and I'll even throw in a Courtney Brown for a tip. Wanna trade ?
Well Jease, that's a negative way to look at it.
How about this, two CBs (One being Joe Haden and another being someone young with his potential) and Phil Taylor? We can throw in Sheard too for that fourth pick.
Had it not been for that staph infection (freak injury and motocycle too, but the staph really got him), Winslow had the potential to be a HOF TE IMO. The knee issues destroyed his blocking ability and hurt his ability to gain separation and make big plays. RG3 could just asoon, get hurt, catch the staph and destroy his knee too. Then you lost all those picks on one guy.........
Just saying, sure you can name our busts, but these past two drafts have gotten us solid players in the 1st and 2nd rounds (besides Hardesty)
Actually, I have not called them failures, other than being firmly in the driver's seat in this deal, and blowing it.
I am saying that we will almost certainly be the 4th place team in the AFCN again this year, and the primary reason will be that we will not have QB play anywhere near equal to the other 3 teams. As I have said elsewhere, all of those teams have good defenses, and good to great QBs. We do not.
This is the start of year 3 of the HH regime. How anyone can call it anything except that is beyond me. There's no "technically" about it. We are heading into their 3rd free agent market, and their 3rd draft.
Quote: How is that anything resembling "Mangini Love"? Your Mangini Paranoia is showing, yet again.
Every time you get even remotely peeved at the FO you bring up how Mangini got "jobbed".
He didn't. He sucked. He still sucks or he'd have a job in football, not on the graveyard for old coaches and players - ESPN.
We won't get RG3. We'll live and it's possible we'll end up ahead of the Deadskins in the end.
Build a bridge and get over it.
Now when they don't take Richardson with the 4th pick (which everyone but you knows they won't) you'll start your incessant crying all over again.
Please spare us all.
I said absolutely nothing about Mangini being "jobbed". I said that he was the coach for the 1st year of HH. I did also mention that Heckert traded for a player, well established, who absolutely no role on a Mangini team. None. Mitchell did not fit anywhere on a Mangini style 3-4 defense. Do you care to dispute that? I also did say that, IMHO, Holmgren kept Mangini because it was a no lose scenario for him. If the team won, then great. However, if the team did not win, while facing one of the most difficult schedules, then he could dump him and "buy" a year. However, as I have said, I don't buy the extra year theory any more than I do a regime buying themselves time by firing their coach 3 years into their reign. There's no "do overs". Every year so far that they've been in control is theirs. If they made a mistake with a coach, even in year one, then it's their mistake and no one else's.
If we go 4-12 again, and Holmgren fired Shurmur, does that then start the clock again? I don't think so. You seem to think it might. (since I must be allowed to put words in your mouth like you try to with me)
Quote: I did also mention that Heckert traded for a player, well established, who absolutely no role on a Mangini team. None. Mitchell did not fit anywhere on a Mangini style 3-4 defense. Do you care to dispute that?
I always took it that Mangini wanted Mitchell and Heckert acquired him only to have Mangini not play him. I also took Heckert's comment about Mitchell being the "best pass rusher on the team" as a sarcastic remark quoting something Mangini said to him when pimping the player.
I dunno. Either way it adds up to nothing. It's not like Heckert signed Mitchell against Mangini's wishes and then forced the coach to play him. Mitchell was a non-factor other than a roster spot. Lord knows Mangini misused, abused or wasted a few of them on his own.
Checking in again, I told y'all this was gonna be a bidding war lol Shanny was gonna get his guy. Good or bad, I gues we'll know in 3 years.
It's a coin flip, I feel that buyers remorse for sure, question everything, but the bottomline is I'm 27 and this is really the first time I have felt the skins could have a Franchise QB--we'll see how it goes.
Quote: Every single statement about the Browns offering anything goes straight back to Adam Schefter and his report. A report that is about as likely as Hillis joing the CIA. Until heckert says he tried to trade up to 2, I wont believe it. He said he asked about Bradford and about Newton, so I am pretty sure he will say if he called to trade up for Griffin.
X2
And adam Shefters report comes from a reporter in St. Louis,.
Now think about it for a second.. If you are the rams and you own the 2nd pick in this draft with a would be/so called QB Golden boy that will be sitting there. If you wanted to make a trade with someone,, what do you do?
I'll tell you, you leak it to a local reporter that 3 (or more) teams have interest in the trade and that one of them is offering three 1st round picks.. then you sit back and play one team like an old fiddle.
For all we actually know, the only team that showed TRUE interest in that trade was washington and St. Louis just jobbed them into thinking there were more teams involved.
I'm NOT saying this is what happened.. I'm simply offering another alternative.
Dude, you've been a Mangini apologist since his first loss. Everyone on here knows it. You take every available chance to hit the current FO because of that Man love. You may not have actually typed out his name but your intent was clear. You know it. I know it.
Now you've stated your preference for taking Richardson with the #4 pick. A pick that you know darned well no team is gonna make that high. This insures that you'll be able to whine about that until at least the start of the season.
I gotta hand it to you, though.....You are consistent.
Quote: Actually, I have not called them failures, other than being firmly in the driver's seat in this deal, and blowing it.
Are you saying we should have outbid Washington? How did we blow it?
Quote: I am saying that we will almost certainly be the 4th place team in the AFCN again this year, and the primary reason will be that we will not have QB play anywhere near equal to the other 3 teams. As I have said elsewhere, all of those teams have good defenses, and good to great QBs. We do not.
I see nothing special in Flacco or Dalton...or McCoy at this point. The difference is the talent around Flacco and Dalton
Quote: This is the start of year 3 of the HH regime. How anyone can call it anything except that is beyond me. There's no "technically" about it. We are heading into their 3rd free agent market, and their 3rd draft.
The fact that this is the third year is a lot like a statistic. It tells you something...but you have to look a lot deeper to see the reality.
The first year was an old coach giving his coach a shot after showing some life at the end of the prior year. Seems reasonable.
The second year we got a strike with no OTAs and a new coach and offense - and defense - with no time to install either. How rare is that?
So...if I own the Browns....not only would I say "it's like the start of year 2"...I'd say "we are about to start year 1".
I think Holmgren is here until HE chooses to leave...regardless of Ws & Ls.
I think Heckert will be here long after Holmgren - and maybe Shurmur - are gone.
We are gonna defend with the 4-3 and play a WCO-modified offense.
Quote: For all we actually know, the only team that showed TRUE interest in that trade was washington and St. Louis just jobbed them into thinking there were more teams involved.
jc..
Wouldn't it be funny if the Redskins were bidding against themselves the entire time?
I have little doubt that the Browns might have called the Rams simply inquiring while never making a formal bid...and I can definitely see the Rams hyping our "interest" to the Redskins in an effort to drive up the trade value.
So it was Adam Schefter who floated the story about Hillis joing the CIA?
I agree 100%. The Redskins "win" free agency almost every year. They bring in every big name possible and it never works out. The Redskins have placed in themselves in a position where it is going to be very difficult to draft starters for the next few years. RG3 will be finishing his rookie contract by the time they are able to draft players to surround him.
Quote: He's going to the Redskins. A team that has evaded an identity through its attempts to establish one: big splashes in free agency. They have been so hell-bent on crazy contracts and mortgaging the farm for instant gratification, that they have failed to establish culture and continuity. They have brought in many players that haven't worked and attracted a plethora of me-first personalities. This has led them to residing in the cellar of their division seemingly year-in-and out.
Now RG3 has all the weight on his shoulders (even more than Luck I think) to perform and perform well right out of the gate. AND, he's got to do it on a team that has failed so many times to improve itself by throwing money at instant gratification. Oh, by the way, they'll be without a first round pick for quite a while now, leaving less room for improvement.
Quote: For all we actually know, the only team that showed TRUE interest in that trade was washington and St. Louis just jobbed them into thinking there were more teams involved.
jc..
Wouldn't it be funny if the Redskins were bidding against themselves the entire time?
I have little doubt that the Browns might have called the Rams simply inquiring while never making a formal bid...and I can definitely see the Rams hyping our "interest" to the Redskins in an effort to drive up the trade value.
So it was Adam Schefter who floated the story about Hillis joing the CIA?
Perhaps this is what we wanted to happen to begin with, because now the Vikings will probably go with Kalil at #3, ensuring that either Claiborne or Blackmon will be on the board at #4.
After all Dan Snyder is very predictable in that he would probably 'over bid and over pay for the trade'. He took the bait hook line and sinker
Wonder if the Redskins giving away every pick that has been talked about as a potential fine for the Gregg Williams/ killing manning thing and then one more first expected to not be touched is a coincidence.
It puts the NFL in an awkward position. Do they strike down the deal and take away a key pick from this deal and run the risk of drawing even more attention to the bounty scandal and being accused of steering RGIII to the Browns? Of punishing the Rams? Do they decide instead to take away other draft picks, further crippling one of their great new marketing assets' (Griffin) ability to be successful?
There's a little bit of what we inappropriately call irony here. Peyton Manning's neck injury is the most visible malicious hit during Gregg Williams Washington tenure, and probably plays a part in his refusal of washington's overtures. Since he won't go to Washington, they have to get griffin III. In the process, the pre-empt the commish giving away all their picks before they can be fined. So in essence, they are not fined for the bounty scandal because they broke manning's neck.
