Team that takes Tannehill in top 12 is really rolling the dice
By Rob Rang | The Sports Xchange/CBSSports.com
Before I attempt to argue why a quarterback I like shouldn't be drafted in the top half of the first round, let me point out that I gave Texas A&M's Ryan Tannehill, a first-round grade prior to the 2011 season, a first-round grade halfway through the season and a first-round grade now. Frankly, there isn't a player in the country I've watched more tape on than Tannehill in the past calendar year, which is why my grade hasn't fluctuated on him like it has for others.
The simple fact is Tannehill boasts all of the physical characteristics that every team is looking for at quarterback. He's big, athletic, strong-armed and shows the ability to make every NFL throw. I've watched him fire the deep out from the opposite hash, show beautiful touch to lay the ball over the linebacker and under the safety and give the pump fake to force the safety to bite before driving the ball downfield ondeep combo routes. He can roll to either direction and throw accurately on the move. He has the guts and speed to be a threat scrambling. Having started 19 games at quarterback in former Green Bay head coach (and current Miami Dolphins' offensive coordinator) Mike Sherman's version of the West Coast Offense, Tannehill has been trained in a pro-style attack.
And yet, because he has only started 19 games I have serious reservations about Tannehill's ability to come in andcontribute immediately. Much like how former Washington Husky quarterback Jake Locker didn't progress in his second season under highly regarded offensive guru Steve Sarkisian, Tannehill didn't take the next step in terms of anticipation in; Year Two under Sherman.
For as maddeningly inconsistent as Locker was at UW, I believe the Tennessee Titans drafted him No. 8 overall last year primarily due tothe improvementsin technique the former Husky made during the final months of the pre-draft process and the ability he showed to win some tight ball games over his career.
And, of course, Tannehill (due to the broken foot that has kept him sidelined since January) wasn't able to make the gradual steps of improvement that Locker did in competing at the Senior Bowl, 2011 Combine and his Pro Day.
Frankly, I saw Tannehill play with more poise late in games as a junior than I did during his senior season. Sure, Tannehill was plagued by drops and defensive collapses in the Aggies losing four games last year in which they led by at least a touchdown at halftime, but I never saw the command of the huddle and ability to stop the bleeding once it started that I believe is critical to be a successful field general in the NFL. This isn't to suggest that Tannehill won't develop better anticipation and poise as he gains more experience at the position, only that he did not prove the ability to do so in 2011.
And because of that simple fact, I cannot support the argument that Tannehill should be selected in thetop half of thefirst round of the 2012 draft -- though I wouldn't be surprised at all to see the Cleveland Browns (No. 4), Miami Dolphins (No. 8) or Seattle Seahawks (No. 12) do precisely that. web page
Cool that you prevent both arguments for a guy you like and believe the Browns will draft as well.
I'm so torn on the Browns picking him. I'm wondering how much better that will be than just drafting WR, RB, RT (in no particular order) with the first three picks and seeing if McCoy will grow. Because if we go Tannehill, the likelihood we get a talent at those positions of need that can start day 1 really goes down.
Ugh. I can't wait until the QB position on this team is settled.
Right or wrong I've looked at him as kind of Joe Montana(ish). Great tools but had to grow into them. Don't know if that's his upside as that's a tall order!
I'd love to see Hasselback here with Tannehill for two seasons!
Tannehill is a great investment even at 4. You just don't find guys with that kind of upside falling into the Browns lap very often. with the cost of draft picks plummeting, the price of drafting these QBs are only going to rise.
Think about it we back into the playoffs at 8-8. Colt has played like garbage but the defense has kept us in games and we pulled a rabbit out of our hat in a couple games with big Cribbs returns. Now we are sitting in the 20's still in need with of a QB. Only jones and Barkley stepped it up to show they are worthy of going in the first. Damn better take one of the other guys and develp him. Might only take a couple more years.
We have picks 4, 22, 37, 68 plus 2 4th round picks, that is enough picks to get what we need.
#4 Tannehill and you still have a boatload of picks to load the offense. You coach him up allow him to compete. If he isn't ready to go this year, you have him ready for next year. A year coached up with all these QB guru;s should be ahead of a Jones or Barkley next year.
Take Reiff or Glenn if they fall to 22, much better chance than what most think. If not trade back with the eagles and their two 2nd round picks or go ahead and pull the trigger on Lamar Miller/ David Wilson if you believe they are as good as advertised.
37 I like Jeffery and Sanu as they really fit Heckert's desired receivers. Big guys that can gain separation by using their strength and size.
68. Bobbie Massie or Mitchell Swartz. Whichever is available if you didnt get your RT, if you did then you have Lamichael James or Robert Turbin.
We have Qb, RT, WR, RB and you have more picks to play with and add a couple injured prospects that fall on draft day. Boykin, Broyles, Datko
gotta draft smart. last year I thought Heckert drafted Brilliantly. We are positioned to have another good draft.
Quote: with the cost of draft picks plummeting, the price of drafting these QBs are only going to rise.
Please explain? I think the opposite should be true. If picks are more expensive, you are pushed towards picking high value positions = more QBs (a $60M OG isn't worth it no matter how good they are).
Quote: RG3 will make a little over 20 mil over the next 5 years. Brees will make a little over 20 mil next year.
I perfectly understand that -- but it's true regardless of what position you draft. I don't understand why this makes it more likely that you get a QB rather than another position?
If QBs became cheaper but everybody else was expensive, then it would make sense - that's not happening here?
I know that some people here love him, but the fact is that inexperienced QBs so rarely succeed in the NFL that I can't see spending a 1st round pick on him. Him having only19 starts is terrifying to me. I don't see a lot of special attributes when I watch him. He looks competent, but he doesn't really do anything that makes me say "wow". He folds big time under pressure. He basically needs built as a QB. The NFL is not an ideal place to build a QB. If it was, there would be all kinds of guys with incredible measurables drafted late and "built" over time. However, this simply does not happen.
Most of these QBs coming out have zero reps in any type of pro system. Tannehill has 20 starts under his belt but all in the WCO. That is a big difference. There was a really good honest review on tannehill from Charlie Casserly a week or two ago. He was raving about how good the kid was in going through his progressions and he showed improvement in anticipations. He is a bit raw and rough around the edges but that is what coaching is for.
He also made the comment of he would need a year of absorbing the qb position. Bottom line, Kid has some skills, I think a year of being groomed will have him ahead of Barkley and next years class.
Qbs used to be groomed all the time. When they started handing out those 60 million dollar deals, everyone rushed their QB onto the field and that trend continued last year. I would rather see a kid play if you can pass protect for him but Holmgren still believes in sitting a year as he did with Colt. If you are gonna sit a guy why not sit the guy with all the upside in the world that needs the refinement.
When I see Weeden I see the Brian robiskie of QBs. He is pretty close to a finished product. When forced to move at all, he is awful. I do see some things I like (fantastic arm, accuracy when he sets his feet and he will take shots downfield) and like Colt, I think he is worth a 3rd round risk but I wouldnt take him before there.
Anyway we will know a lot more after his workout next week.
BTW WE would be the only team in the NFL whose best RB is their #1 receiver and their best receiver is their QB lol.
Quote: Tannehill is a great investment even at 4. You just don't find guys with that kind of upside falling into the Browns lap very often.
Fortunately I believe the FO disagrees with your assessment. Tannehill should be pretty easy to get just sitting at #4. I highly doubt we tried to trade two extra #1s and a #2 because Tannehill has "that kind of upside". Selling the farm for RGIII when Tannehill is right in our wheelhouse says as much about our view of Tannehill as it does McCoy.
I wouldn't mind if we got Tannehill at #22 or #37. At that value point, we're afforded the luxury of being able to miss on Tannehill because the price wasn't exorbitant (and there is a legitimate chance he busts given that he's played more games at WR than QB and didn't improve much in his senior year). I personally would refuse to be one of those desperation teams that pushes a guy way too high on the draft board simply because he's the best of what's left. Teams that draft those guys almost always get busts.
It sucks that we missed out on the elite QBs but to me, that means waiting for the elite guys next year (and actually being willing to do what it takes next year to get one) and making due with what we have now. If we force Tannehill just because we need new blood in here, I'll seriously begin to question this front office.
If you believe the kid is gonna be a franchise QB then he is worth the risk and not a reach. If you dont believe he is the guy, then you dont take him. Wishy washy as in well maybe if the stars align properly never works even if the kid is good. We have all these supposed offensive guru's if they think the kid has it, it says he has it. If they don't it also says a lot.
Not sure RG3 can be classified elite. He's just like a shiney new toy that's unknown as to whether it's REALLY fun or not and how long it holds interest.
I figure his bust potential is nearly as high as Tannehills.
Quote: Not sure RG3 can be classified elite. He's just like a shiney new toy that's unknown as to whether it's REALLY fun or not and how long it holds interest.
I figure his bust potential is nearly as high as Tannehills.
NFL Elite, nobody know. You cant really say he hasnt been elite (by definition) at the college level.
I would say his potential is higher then Tannehill.
Eh...Tannehill is mostly potential where RG3 may have been playing at his highest level. Who knows. I liked the kid but he's still a risk.
Everyone seems to like Tannehills tools and thinks time behind center is the missing ingredient. Love to get him at 22 but it aint gonna happen.
Doesnt bother me he hasnt played alot of years at QB. In fact, I think I'm more impressed he's done what he's done with little playing time at the position.
4 isnt a reach if you want him and do not think you can move back and get him. I just wish we had a vet in place to school him.
Quote: If you believe the kid is gonna be a franchise QB then he is worth the risk and not a reach. If you dont believe he is the guy, then you dont take him. Wishy washy as in well maybe if the stars align properly never works even if the kid is good. We have all these supposed offensive guru's if they think the kid has it, it says he has it. If they don't it also says a lot.
I completely disagree.
If a guy like Tannehill has the physical skills but needs a year to learn and we have to figure out how to fix his reading of defense and penchant for making mistakes in the big moments, then his risk could very well outweigh the idea of taking him at #4 (and that includes passing on an elite talent of Blackmon, Claiborne, etc.).
But, if our staff thinks he has a chance if given time, then maybe that risk is considered worth it compared to the players we would be passing on at the #22 slot.
The entire draft is a measure/balance of risk/reward. You don't take a QB just because you think he has a chance (if given time, etc.) when you think there are better talents on the board. You take a QB in a cold-hearted calculation value based approach. If his value is good for the slot, then you take him. If not, then you pass. Simple as that.
Quote: You just don't find guys with that kind of upside falling into the Browns lap very often.
You don't draft someone at #4 because of his upside. You draft someone at #4 because he is a stud and instant starter. All these guys have upside. I don't want the browns drafting because of upside, I want them drafting because of proven talent. If Tannehill is drafted at 4 then our future for the browns will never get better. I wouldn't select him at 22 or even in the 2nd rd. He is onehelluva athlete that played qb for a pass happy offense in a very poor defensive conference, from a school whose previous biggest/greatest QB (with much better numbers and more experience) couldn't even make a team in the NFL.
Quote: You just don't find guys with that kind of upside falling into the Browns lap very often.
You don't draft someone at #4 because of his upside. You draft someone at #4 because he is a stud and instant starter. All these guys have upside. I don't want the browns drafting because of upside, I want them drafting because of proven talent. If Tannehill is drafted at 4 then our future for the browns will never get better. I wouldn't select him at 22 or even in the 2nd rd. He is onehelluva athlete that played qb for a pass happy offense in a very poor defensive conference, from a school whose previous biggest/greatest QB (with much better numbers and more experience) couldn't even make a team in the NFL.
Quote: If you believe the kid is gonna be a franchise QB then he is worth the risk and not a reach. If you dont believe he is the guy, then you dont take him. Wishy washy as in well maybe if the stars align properly never works even if the kid is good. We have all these supposed offensive guru's if they think the kid has it, it says he has it. If they don't it also says a lot.
This is what I don't get in all those QB discussion...IF you think a QB has franchise QB potential, you take him ANYWHERE in the 1st...if you think he has only AVG starter potential and is a good backup then you take them in the 3rd+...I've never understood picking QB's in the 2nd (there are rare excpetions like Weeden this draft, but I'd be ok with him at 22 too)...and most of them have busted recently...
I get what you're saying, though. If you're looking for a starter, why would you wait until the 2nd. If you're looking for a backup, why would you use such a valuable pick on one?
Like, what's the difference b/w a 3rd round QB and a 5th round QB?
Quote: Like, what's the difference b/w a 3rd round QB and a 5th round QB?
The difference between wasting a couple of seasons trying to make the 3rd rounder into a starter while not wasting any time trying to convince yourself that the 5th rounder is.
Quote: Like, what's the difference b/w a 3rd round QB and a 5th round QB?
When speaking in general terms, it'll be one thing... but overall, it really depends upon a lot. The person himself, the situation he moves into, etc...
In the end, you draft a player at the lowest possible slot that you feel he will be available, period. You might be gambling that nobody else is looking at the guy in the 3rd and so he should be there in the 4th. It isn't saying that he is that bad, it is just saying that there were a lot of other guys with higher value at that point. Draft position dictates absolutely nothing in regard to a player's ability, or ceiling.
Quote: If you believe the kid is gonna be a franchise QB then he is worth the risk and not a reach. If you dont believe he is the guy, then you dont take him. Wishy washy as in well maybe if the stars align properly never works even if the kid is good. We have all these supposed offensive guru's if they think the kid has it, it says he has it. If they don't it also says a lot.
I don't think anyone is ever a sure fire franchise QB coming out but there is a certain likelihood to it. Those odds usually determine where a guy gets drafted. Luck is going #1 because he seems very likely to be a franchise QB. To take a guy at #4 means you think his odds of being a stud are pretty darn high. I just don't see a near "lock" in Tannehill.
He absolutely has the ability and potential but he doesn't have nearly enough experience to make a solid determination one way or the other. That potential is definitely enough to make him a high pick (mid 1st-early 2nd) but not #4 overall. I'd feel much more comfortable taking a different guy like Claiborne or Richardson who are near locks to be a stud and waiting to find a QB next year who is worth that pick.
We have to stop asking if a QB is a possible upgrade over Colt and start asking if they're a significant enough upgrade to justify the cost. The answer was yes on both Luck and RGIII. Tannehill, unless we can get him later, is where I draw the line.
Quote: We have to stop asking if a QB is a possible upgrade over Colt and start asking if they're a significant enough upgrade to justify the cost. The answer was yes on both Luck and RGIII. Tannehill, unless we can get him later, is where I draw the line.
I think they have to ask, would they trade a 1st round pick for a Jake Locker clone?
I'd be happy enough if they took him at 4 and moved on to the rest of the draft knowing they've done something more than absolutly nothing to address the problem of the poor quarterback play.
But then I was in love with the Hardesty pick. Still think it was the right pick. I just wasn't a fan of the trade up, I rarely am.
Tannehill is a much better prospect than Locker, Ponder, Flacco, Freeman and they all went from the 8 to 18 area. Right now the only QB considered 1st round in next year's class that would be ranked higher is Barkley and he is going #1 and even he lacks the upside of Tannehill.
The QB position is always one of great debate, and I do get why opinions vary so much on this kid but I gotta say, I like the kid better than Barkley and believe he is more of a Matt Flynn with great mobility and accuracy throwing on the run.
I take him at 4 and never look back. His proday will be huge next week.
Well, in fairness we won't know how good Ryan Mallett actually is for quite a while. I've mostly heard that it is considered a "pro-style" system. Does that not agree with what you know of it?
I'm not a big fan of Barkley. AT this point I am hopeful that some kid puts it all together next year like Griffin did this year, and that we can get into position to take him. Barring that ...... maybe I just hope that we get lucky with a QB. I have this sinking feeling that this was our year ....... and that we'll be looking, and stretching, for a QB in years to come, and settling for bums like Brady Quinn .....
Barkley was the best QB in college this year. That says a lot, especially in this elite draft class, but at the same time I dont know what it is about him but he scares the hell out of me as well. Sad part is even with those doubts, if I had the #1 pick next year, he is my guy for better or worse lol. Well that is true unless someone offers me 3 #1s and a #2 lol
Maybe that's it but I thought both were absolute busts coming out.
Hell he does play behind the best OL in college football and in a conference where no one plays much defense. If I saw him face more pressure, I would be more sold on him.
Quote: Our Luck, the dolphins will trade ahead of us lol.
I was thinking the same thing. Might be why there have been rumblings out of Minny about trading the pick since they know we want a QB in a bad way and know Miami is in the same boat...
I think they would love to pick up another pick to move down 1 slot to get the guy they want in the first place.
I think it's going to happen. Miami is going to look at jumping up.
Man, those goofs have this so balled up it isn't all that upsetting anymore, it almost funny.
At least that's what I tell myself every time I start to think about it and feel the blood start to boil.
Quote: Over at Walter football, here is his projection and write up on where we go with our 1st pick.
Cleveland Browns: Ryan Tannehill, QB, Texas A&M The Browns blew it. They absolutely blew it. They had a chance to move up for Robert Griffin in exchange for Nos. 4 and 22, as well as a first-rounder next year. That was the correct price to pay for a franchise quarterback. Mike Holmgren doesn't realize that for some reason, and that's why Cleveland will continue to dwell in the AFC North cellar.
So, let's recap. The Browns whiffed on Young Griff. Peyton Manning didn't want to sign with them. Neither did Matt Flynn. Kevin Kolb and Matt Hasselbeck weren't available because Manning didn't sign with Arizona or Tennessee. Because of this, Cleveland absolutely has to draft Ryan Tannehill at No. 4.
There's really no question about it. Will any Cleveland fans be in the stands when their team is 1-4 with Colt McCoy at the helm? Absolutely not. The Browns, under any circumstances, cannot go into the 2012 season with McCoy as the sole option. They need a franchise quarterback, and Tannehill, a consensus top-12 prospect because of the demand for signal-callers, can no longer be considered a reach. If the Dolphins are dying for him to fall to No. 8, then Cleveland can absolutely take him at No. 4.
Tannehill is a good fit for this offense anyway. I believe that Holmgren and the rest of the front office will talk themselves into drafting him. They may not want to right now, but they'll fall in love with his potential over the next month. I know what Holmgren said about sticking with McCoy. As I tweeted @walterfootball, "I don't believe that Holmgren is fully committed to Colt McCoy. He doth protest too much. Ryan Tannehill's a viable option for #Browns."web page
But we've not heard it being a stupid move among NFL circles. In fact, the stuff you see has had him as a second rounder, to a late first, to inside the top 12.
Quote: But we've not heard it being a stupid move among NFL circles. In fact, the stuff you see has had him as a second rounder, to a late first, to inside the top 12.
Somebody thinks highly of the guy.
That's fine, but remember that there is a reason before the season that Tannehill was graded low.
Drafting a project QB in the top 5 is not a smart move for a football team starving for talent.
I think the only people that believe he is a 2nd rounder are Browns fans that are still pouting over not getting Luck and RG3. Hell most of them didnt even want RG3 until they were told we couldnt get him lol Kid is top 15 talent in any draft.
I'd hoped RT would be there at 22 early on, that obviously aint happening now.
Do I want him at 4?...Eh...I want a real contributor at that spot. But I aint H&H. If they go that route and he works out great! If not, it spells their walking papers and extends fans and teams miseries.
I've followed his career since he was a freshman. Yes, he was on my radar.
Quote: I'd hoped RT would be there at 22 early on, that obviously aint happening now.
Do I want him at 4?...Eh...I want a real contributor at that spot. But I aint H&H. If they go that route and he works out great! If not, it spells their walking papers and extends fans and teams miseries.
The fact that there is such a hit or miss with that pick is the reason I do not want him, especially when you have great talents around with that pick. This team needs a lot of talent still, not just at the QB position. If they reach for a need rather than drafting the best player available, then I'd be very upset.
I'd hoped RT would be there at 22 early on, that obviously aint happening now.
Do I want him at 4?...Eh...I want a real contributor at that spot. But I aint H&H. If they go that route and he works out great! If not, it spells their walking papers and extends fans and teams miseries.
The thing that has held Tannehill's stock from gaining any momentum is the fact that he was not able to play in the SR. bowl or workout at the Combine and he has yet to have his pro-day.
Quote: But we've not heard it being a stupid move among NFL circles. In fact, the stuff you see has had him as a second rounder, to a late first, to inside the top 12.
Somebody thinks highly of the guy.
For the record, those places are not "NFL circles", either. They are simply draft sites... people who make a living putting together mock drafts. That is not "NFL circles"... not even Mayock or whatshisname at BSPN. These places also keep their traffic to their sites up by routinely changing their mocks and having players move up and down their board - mostly for no reason at all..
...and I'm pretty sure we don't have actual NFL GM's letting it be known what THEY think about players and rounds.
Quote: I think the only people that believe he is a 2nd rounder are Browns fans that are still pouting over not getting Luck and RG3. Hell most of them didnt even want RG3 until they were told we couldnt get him lol Kid is top 15 talent in any draft.
Since you didn't exclude me by name, you're including me.
People are too hung up on his tools. To my eye, he has too many question marks for a guy taken in the top-15. I view him in the same light as Brady Quinn: Overhyped college QB who is a long-term project.
There are too many red-flags that underlie his tools. Not enough experience. Shoddy mechanics and footwork. Non-special comp percentage in an offense tailor-made to absolutely blow teams away. And when you compare what he did to what RG3 did, well, he's not in the same class as a passer. I'm also not at all buying that he ran something close to what we'll run here. He NEVER went through progressions. That's an absolute necessity in the NFL.
Will he go in the 1st round? Sure. Do I personally think he should? Hell no. Browns at #4? Shoot me now.
I don't wanna be the team that takes the booby-prize QB because we lost out on the others...
edit: Ok, Mourg. You've forced me to pull out all the stops man, hehe. I'm going to have to bring out all the big guns for this one:
Every player I've put in my sig has suffered the fate of the ToadCurse. Couch, Frye, Edwards, Winslow, and finally Colt. Well, it's time because outside of debate, it's the one ace-in-the-hole I have left...
Quote: I think the only people that believe he is a 2nd rounder are Browns fans that are still pouting over not getting Luck and RG3. Hell most of them didnt even want RG3 until they were told we couldnt get him lol Kid is top 15 talent in any draft.
you'd have to say I have been pretty consistent throughout the college season and since on him not being a 1st rounder, no?
Quote: But we've not heard it being a stupid move among NFL circles. In fact, the stuff you see has had him as a second rounder, to a late first, to inside the top 12.
Somebody thinks highly of the guy.
For the record, those places are not "NFL circles", either. They are simply draft sites... people who make a living putting together mock drafts. That is not "NFL circles"... not even Mayock or whatshisname at BSPN. These places also keep their traffic to their sites up by routinely changing their mocks and having players move up and down their board - mostly for no reason at all..
...and I'm pretty sure we don't have actual NFL GM's letting it be known what THEY think about players and rounds.
Quote: I'm not a big fan of Barkley. AT this point I am hopeful that some kid puts it all together next year like Griffin did this year, and that we can get into position to take him. Barring that ...... maybe I just hope that we get lucky with a QB. I have this sinking feeling that this was our year ....... and that we'll be looking, and stretching, for a QB in years to come, and settling for bums like Brady Quinn .....
The best thing that could happen is for Colt McCoy to prove you wrong.. not because I want to all over you.. But because, if he proves you wrong, the team will be improved and the team wouldn't have to spend a ton of picks or money to grab someone else that may or may not work out
Now you are going to come back and say,, "NEVER HAPPEN" and I'll say,, RG3 might turn out to be a bum..... and we'd both have a point...
Ha ha, you fool! You fell victim to one of the classic blunders! The most famous of which is "never get involved in a land war in Asia" but only slightly less well-known is this: "Never go all in against a Sicilian when DEATH is on the line!"
So....
Just remember that I'm more an Adrianna Lima guy than a Jessica Simpson guy.
Quote: Ha ha, you fool! You fell victim to one of the classic blunders! The most famous of which is "never get involved in a land war in Asia" but only slightly less well-known is this: "Never go all in against a Sicilian when DEATH is on the line!"
So....
Just remember that I'm more an Adrianna Lima guy than a Jessica Simpson guy.
Toad offered a golf vacation replete with female companionship if Tannehill was drafted at 4. I made that prediction a month ago and said Holmgren will figure out how to explain it to the fanbase later.
I haven't the time to follow college ball,so I don't get involved with who will go where. But,I come to believe one thing,with the new labor agreement there's been a shift in the way teams now value draft spots. Before,drafting a questionable QB high,huge salary plus lost pick,could set your team back multiple years. Now,because of the salary structure,it's just another pick,a gamble yes,but only slightly more than any other pick. Therefore I believe there will be QBs taken in 1st round,some way higher than they should be.The risk isn't that great,but the reward is still the same.
I would be perfectly happy to say I was wrong if McCoy puts up an elite year or 2.
I just don't see him ever putting up a 25-30 TD season. (which would put him in the top 5 range in the NFL)
I would love to see it, and I would love to be wrong, because then we could continue to use draft picks elsewhere.
Unfortunately, I don't think that I'm going to be wrong in this case. I think that trying feverishly to replace McCoy will be an annual event until it is finally accomplished. I have this nightmare, and someone else said something similar, that McCoy is just good enough to be "not too bad" ........ and we never get out of mediocrity hell as a result.
It just hit me, Tannehill at 4 is a better pick than Claibourne at 4, and here is the proof. It's because of the state of the Browns roster at the moment.
Look at it like this.
If they DON'T draft Claibourne and fix that 2nd cornerback spot, can you argue that McCoy is going to get in shootouts with all the opponents next season and that other teams are going to throw all over the defense and we would have missed out because we didn't get that best Cb in the draft? x 12
or
If they DON'T draft Tannehill McCoy is going to suddenly get a fire lit under his belly and come out and play like a top 10, 16, 0r top 25 quarterback in the league.
or, If they DO drat Tannehill he's (Tannehill) is going to come into this offense and be coached down to short arm every pass to the dump off option no matter what he sees, and it probably won't matter because they'll never send someone out on a deep route.
I'm starting to think that Tannehill to Greg Little + late round receivers is a better option than McCoy to ANYBODY.
We need to draft THE guy not just A guy. I don't happen to believe that Tannehill is THE guy. But I do believe that taking him at 4 is a panic move. I don't believe that Heckert will panic and make this pick. I believe that Holmgren will. The question is: who will win out come draft day?
I'm not a fan of Tannehill, so I wouldn't just "take him and forget it."
As far as McCoy, I'm not saying he's that good ..... but my fear is that he becomes just good enough to be "not bad", and thus the team has hope that he might become more ..... even though he probably won't.
Quote: I would be perfectly happy to say I was wrong if McCoy puts up an elite year or 2.
I just don't see him ever putting up a 25-30 TD season. (which would put him in the top 5 range in the NFL)
I would love to see it, and I would love to be wrong, because then we could continue to use draft picks elsewhere.
Unfortunately, I don't think that I'm going to be wrong in this case. I think that trying feverishly to replace McCoy will be an annual event until it is finally accomplished. I have this nightmare, and someone else said something similar, that McCoy is just good enough to be "not too bad" ........ and we never get out of mediocrity hell as a result.
8,17,22,10,18,10,18,8,8 guess what those were.......
Quote: I would be perfectly happy to say I was wrong if McCoy puts up an elite year or 2.
I just don't see him ever putting up a 25-30 TD season. (which would put him in the top 5 range in the NFL)
I would love to see it, and I would love to be wrong, because then we could continue to use draft picks elsewhere.
Unfortunately, I don't think that I'm going to be wrong in this case. I think that trying feverishly to replace McCoy will be an annual event until it is finally accomplished. I have this nightmare, and someone else said something similar, that McCoy is just good enough to be "not too bad" ........ and we never get out of mediocrity hell as a result.
8,17,22,10,18,10,18,8,8 guess what those were.......
I would guess Kosar.
Makes no difference. I have said that Kosar was a really good, but not great QB. Plus he played in a different era.
Toad offered a golf vacation replete with female companionship if Tannehill was drafted at 4. I made that prediction a month ago and said Holmgren will figure out how to explain it to the fanbase later.
Quote: As far as McCoy, I'm not saying he's that good ..... but my fear is that he becomes just good enough to be "not bad", and thus the team has hope that he might become more ..... even though he probably won't.
I think that's exactly what's going to happen, whether we draft Tannehill or not. Colt just doesn't have the tools. He'll play just well enough to knock us out of position for a good qb next year. We may as well draft Tannehill, sit him for a year and let him develop. I'm not convinced Blackmon and Richardson are bonafide instant starters, and Claiborne isn't Patrick Peterson........so I think Tannehill is worth the risk.
Quote: Over at Walter football, here is his projection and write up on where we go with our 1st pick.
Cleveland Browns: Ryan Tannehill, QB, Texas A&M The Browns blew it. They absolutely blew it. They had a chance to move up for Robert Griffin in exchange for Nos. 4 and 22, as well as a first-rounder next year. That was the correct price to pay for a franchise quarterback. Mike Holmgren doesn't realize that for some reason, and that's why Cleveland will continue to dwell in the AFC North cellar.
So, let's recap. The Browns whiffed on Young Griff. Peyton Manning didn't want to sign with them. Neither did Matt Flynn. Kevin Kolb and Matt Hasselbeck weren't available because Manning didn't sign with Arizona or Tennessee. Because of this, Cleveland absolutely has to draft Ryan Tannehill at No. 4.
There's really no question about it. Will any Cleveland fans be in the stands when their team is 1-4 with Colt McCoy at the helm? Absolutely not. The Browns, under any circumstances, cannot go into the 2012 season with McCoy as the sole option. They need a franchise quarterback, and Tannehill, a consensus top-12 prospect because of the demand for signal-callers, can no longer be considered a reach. If the Dolphins are dying for him to fall to No. 8, then Cleveland can absolutely take him at No. 4.
Tannehill is a good fit for this offense anyway. I believe that Holmgren and the rest of the front office will talk themselves into drafting him. They may not want to right now, but they'll fall in love with his potential over the next month. I know what Holmgren said about sticking with McCoy. As I tweeted @walterfootball, "I don't believe that Holmgren is fully committed to Colt McCoy. He doth protest too much. Ryan Tannehill's a viable option for #Browns."web page
I mocked Jimmy Clausen here recently, but the more I thought about it since then, the more I realized that it's not Mike Holmgren's style to pick Clausen. Clausen is clearly the right choice for the Browns, but my goal is to predict what teams will do instead of what they should do.
Holmgren has never spent a first-round pick on a quarterback. There's a reason for this. Like Bill Walsh, Holmgren firmly believes that he can take "inferior" quarterbacks and make them into really proficient passers. These "inferior" signal-callers don't have to possess a great or even a very good arm; they just need to make quick decisions, and be accurate in the short and the intermediate passing game. Clausen could absolutely thrive in Holmgren's offense, but I don't think Holmgren would be willing to spend the No. 7 overall pick on the Notre Dame product - even if he is the top quarterback prospect in this class.
2010 NFL Draft Day - Final Thoughts: This is obviously Eric Berry if he's here. If not, I say Joe Haden. I don't understand how anyone could mock Derrick Morgan to the Browns. He is not a 3-4 rush linebacker; he would be a terrible fit in that scheme. But then again, this is the team that paid Jake Delhomme $7 million, so who knows?
Other 2010 NFL Draft Possibilities:
1. Joe Haden, CB - Cleveland traded for Sheldon Brown, but he's 31 years old. He doesn't have much time of high productivity remaining in this league, and could be moved to free safety this year.
2. Jimmy Clausen, QB - The right pick for the Browns, but one I don't think they're going to make.
Quote: I would be perfectly happy to say I was wrong if McCoy puts up an elite year or 2.
I just don't see him ever putting up a 25-30 TD season. (which would put him in the top 5 range in the NFL)
I would love to see it, and I would love to be wrong, because then we could continue to use draft picks elsewhere.
Unfortunately, I don't think that I'm going to be wrong in this case. I think that trying feverishly to replace McCoy will be an annual event until it is finally accomplished. I have this nightmare, and someone else said something similar, that McCoy is just good enough to be "not too bad" ........ and we never get out of mediocrity hell as a result.
8,17,22,10,18,10,18,8,8 guess what those were.......
I would guess Kosar.
Makes no difference. I have said that Kosar was a really good, but not great QB. Plus he played in a different era.
It was indeed Kosar, a QB held in high esteem around here. Three AFC Championship games, Lots of wins, low INT's, receivers that CATCH the ball and for the most part, A line that protected him, a pretty strong running game, a TE that was All Pro..
The difference between now and then,, let's look at it,, QB's throw, Receivers Catch, Runners Run, Blockers Block..
Yeah Big difference
I'm not trying to be a wise guy here, But the fact of the matter is, a QB that gets the ball to his receivers, doens't make dumb mistakes, commands the huddle and HAS PLAYERS around him that do thier jobs will work in any era.
Kosar had that around him, McCoy doesn't/didn't..
But he does have the intangibles,,, so, let's see what happens when we surround him with some talent and let them learn the offense under the tutleage of the coaches instead of trying to do it by themselves..
Oh, and one last thing, I'll be happy as hell with a QB that is REALLY GOOD like Kosar was. I'd think you would be as well, unless you put ONE measurment on him,, just the number of TD's..
Quote: I think the only people that believe he is a 2nd rounder are Browns fans that are still pouting over not getting Luck and RG3. Hell most of them didnt even want RG3 until they were told we couldnt get him lol Kid is top 15 talent in any draft.
I don't want the kid at #4 or anywhere and I think he is a first round talent. I don't even want Richardson or Blackmon, although I could understand Blackmon more than Richardson.
I initially thought that Claiborne would be our pick (and I would not be upset if he was), but I think the full intention has always been to trade back (despite the trade-up offer to St. Louis - which I think was directed by Lerner). It was a silly offer and I'm glad that it fell through.
My inclination is that we'll see another trade down on April 26th and a loading up on more picks, perhaps in this draft or next year and even following years.
I think that OL will be on the minds of Holmgren & Heckert with the first pick. I would prefer DeCastro, but I have the sense that it could be his teammate, Jonathan Martin.
Then, I think they'll go WR with the 22nd pick. I would love to have Stephen Hill here and I think he might be the selection.
Quote: Holmgren has never spent a first-round pick on a quarterback. There's a reason for this. Like Bill Walsh, Holmgren firmly believes that he can take "inferior" quarterbacks and make them into really proficient passers. These "inferior" signal-callers don't have to possess a great or even a very good arm; they just need to make quick decisions, and be accurate in the short and the intermediate passing game. Clausen could absolutely thrive in Holmgren's offense, but I don't think Holmgren would be willing to spend the No. 7 overall pick on the Notre Dame product - even if he is the top quarterback prospect in this class.
Well, Clausen was well off the board when Holmgren would have overruled Heckert and chosen in the 3rd round. If Colt McCoy and Jimmy Clausen were both there in the third round, it's quite possible that Holmgren would have frozen and unable to make the selection.
Just wanted to repost this from another locked thread....
Was curious what people thought of the specific throw I mentioned because I think it's an elite throw.
If you have an opinion please post...there was odd radio silence on it the last time I put it out there.
Quote: The talent/skill gap between Luck and RGII when compared to Tannehill is huge. This is not one of those "coin flip" MIT decisions
Quote: show me tape of him looking like a first rounder
Ask and ye shall receive. Watch the throw at 6:38 and let the tape roll from there.
That throw will remind you of someone...Tom Brady.
That's an NFL throw...beautiful footwork, beautiful balance, perfect throwing motion and release to a WR outside the numbers on a line. Simply effortless.
If anyone doubts why I like this guy so much...and Mourg and others just watch this throw over and over and over. That's the potential to go with brains, brawn, durability and college WR athleticism. There it is for all to see.
If Tannehill can make that type of throw with consistency he's going to be a top level NFL QB.
You wanted the proof. There it is.
The rest is just fun with RG3 and Tannehill. Nice scramble at 7:48 too.
btw....A&M beat Baylor 55-28 behind 415 yards and 6 TDs from Tannehill.
Sorry Heldawg, I did mean to reply to this. I had actually commented on that video in another post prior to that. Yeah, that's a nice throw. It's not the only nice throw in there for him. But isn't that the same game where he throws the middle screen pass to the linebacker? This is a highlight video, and lots of college QBs can make nice throws here and there. I said when I looked at his videos that this game made him look much better than the northwestern and Arkansas games. But again, this is a highlight video. It sure made that wide receiver look good, though.
Showing the highlights of a QBs best game (in a home game no less) doesn't make someone a first round player to me. Yes, he does mostly look good int his game, so thanks for posting this, but it's definitely not enough for me.
Toad offered a golf vacation replete with female companionship if Tannehill was drafted at 4. I made that prediction a month ago and said Holmgren will figure out how to explain it to the fanbase later.
Now that's not looking like too bad a prediction.
Have you played golf in Texas in July?
Not what some would call a vacation...
Maybe the golf was just an excuse to get drunk and compare the girls to one-another
Were they point totals scored by the Browns offense when McCoy got a start? I think the team scored 22 once and no more than 20 more than once the rest of the year.
Quote: might as well poast Tannehill's pro-day instead of baylor's "defense"
Yeah, "Baylor defense" was quite the oxymoron last year ......
They were 110th in pass defense, and 112th in total defense. (out of what, 120 Division 1 teams?) They allowed almost 39 PPG during the regular seaaon.
They were as awful on defense as they were explosive and capable on offense.
Were they point totals scored by the Browns offense when McCoy got a start? I think the team scored 22 once and no more than 20 more than once the rest of the year.
No, they were the number of TD's Kosar threw during his career in Cleveland...
Wow. It's one of those things you read and swear there's no way. Funny thing is, most people would want much better numbers from their QB, but many of those same people (myself included) would take Bernie in a heartbeat!
Quote: Wow. It's one of those things you read and swear there's no way. Funny thing is, most people would want much better numbers from their QB, but many of those same people (myself included) would take Bernie in a heartbeat!
Are you kidding? Have you seen his mechanics or his footwork? No way, BUST!
Different era too. Different passing rules. Far different rules on covering receivers. Far different rules on hitting QBs.
It was night and day different. People played the same positions, but (Hall of Fame QB) Dan Marino, the most prolific passer of that generation, hit 48 TD passes once, 44 once, and hit 30 twice. The rest of his career he was below 30 TD passes every year.
Jim Kelly, Hall of Fame QB, threw 33 TD passes once, and never threw 30 again in his career.
Hall of Fame QB John Elway never threw 30 TD passes in any season he played. His high was 27.
Hall of Fame QB Joe Montana threw 31 TD passes one time in his career.
Hall of Fame QB Steve Young threw 36 TD passes once, 35 TD passes once, and never topped 30 again in his career.
Totally different era with completely different rules.
Last year, Drew Brees threw 46 TD passes. Aaron Rodgers threw 45. Matthew Stafford threw 41. Tom Brady threw 39. Tony Romo threw 31. (he threw 36 in 3007) Eli Manning and Matt Ryan threw 29 each.
It's a different era of NFL football, in case you never looked. The things that worked against rules allowing for receivers to be mugged anywhere on the field no longer work when defenses breathe wrong and get a penalty. Pass offenses have to carry the day today. QBs have to carry their teams today. People talk about receivers who can't get open ...... but our receivers are open, especially when compared to the Kosar days. Go watch a replay of some of those games where receivers had to work for every single inch of space to work in because they were being beaten on the whole way through their route, the whole way down the field. Today receivers can run free, once they get beyond the 5 yard bump zone.
A QB like Kosar got by in those days without a great arm, but with spectacular anticipation, and very good accuracy. If he was drafted today, he would probably be a 30 TD guy in his prime, just because of his anticipation and accuracy ... even without a huge arm.
I would really think that our longer tenured fans (that's older, for guys like me) would remember those days.
Most consider Tannehill top 15. Some consider him top 10. I think to make that final push he will really need to wow at his proday. We will also need to bring him in for a private workout. See how he looks throwing to our receivers.
Whether anyone will want to believe it or not, he is a very strong consideration at 4. 29th is huge. NFL network should have his proday, ESPNU might have it.
I am coming around on Jeffrey. I think that a combination of Richardson and Jeffrey would eliminate any and all excuses fir this offense.
I have started watching a fair amount of Jeffrey tape, and I think that I may have bought into some of the negative hype a bit, about his weight and all ..... but I can admit when I am wrong. He looks like a premiere receiver ready to take the NFL by storm. He's definitely got premium height, and his body control is uncanny.
I'm convinced. Give me Richardson and Jeffrey, add a RT, and see how McCoy does with that kind of premiere talent around him. Hopefully he busts out and has a huge year, but if he continues to struggle, then we have answered another question for sure.
Just posting Tannehill's game against OSU this past season. It's one of the good edited tapes where it just shows all his offensive plays, not his highlights.
Of course I see the arm and the ability to make all the throws as well as the straight-line speed (he isn't an allusive runner). What I also see are some accuracy issues, some very poor decisions, and a terrible "tell" that he's got to correct. Tannehill has a timing mechanism that needs to be fixed. It's an old-school thing that coaches try to work out of their QB's today, which is to pat the ball before they throw it. Such a thing allows defenders that extra split-second to read what the QB will do. Neither Luck nor Griffin do this. The INT at the 4:40 mark gives a great view of this. The DB is watching Tannehill and you can actually see Tannehill pat the ball before he throws. NFL DB's will get great jumps off of that. That also allows defensive linemen to time getting their hands up to knock down passes.
The INT at the 5:10 mark is just a terrible decision. That shows how far he needs to go before he's ready for the NFL. When he has issues, it's when his first read isn't there. That's very-much a Colt McCoy problem, which is a product of running a wide-open offense in college where your talent level is so much better than the defenses. In the NFL, that advantage is largely negated which exposes the problem.
He somewhat reminds me of David Klingler, in that he throws lower than his actual height, somewhat negating his size advantage.
Now to hear former QB's like Tony Banks say he hasn't seen Tannehill make an NFL throw, well, that's just ludicrous. He has enough power to put the ball anywhere on the field. All the tools are there, but his tools aren't what make me give him a 2nd round grade.
So do I see a guy that is worthy of being selected two spots below the top-2 QB's in this draft? Not at all. I do see a guy who is very worthy of being a starting prospect, but the 3rd best QB in this draft being taken 4th? That's terribly over-valued. He's a project, not a guy who is going to be ready to step right in which is what you want with the 4th pick of any draft.
Quote: Of course I see the arm and the ability to make all the throws as well as the straight-line speed (he isn't an allusive runner). What I also see are some accuracy issues, some very poor decisions, and a terrible "tell" that he's got to correct.
This is what I saw in the games I watched of him, too. I look forward to checking out the game you linked when I'm back home.
I just watched the entire game you posted...the patting should be correctable but I liked what I saw....good timing, accuracy, quick (mostly good) decisions...that 1st INT was actually a good throw that's a 15yd gain if thw WR doesn't slip...Im not sure the DB is reading anything there, he clearly takes his eyes off Tannehill before he throws it, then looks at the ball when it was in the air again..I think you over-interpret that play
His deeper throws seem effortless...the 2nd INT was the only deep pass that was NOT thrown into single coverage and as bad as that play was there still was 1 positive out of it: he kept his eyes downfield and still sensed the pressure, it was a hero INT...we've all seen Favre and Roethli do the same thing when trailing and late in the game...I really like his decision making more than I though I would, for a guy under 20 starts that's already looking pretty promising imho
I'm on Mourg's bandwagon....we should get him...Is he the 4th best prospect day 1? No way, but does he have the highest ceiling of a high value position left? You bet...
Best mix of value-day 1 readiness and upside is Claiborne...the only problem I see is that it'll be tough to keep both Haden and Claiborne 4 years from now and I don't want a top 5 pick gone after 4or5 years
Best VALUE imho is JAX calls us to jump STL for Blackmon, we get an extra 2nd and draft Tannehill at 7...if MIA jumps us, so be it, since we'd still get either Claiborne or Richardson....trading down to 5to7 is the best value and I think every Brownsfan would be happy with whoever is left from Claiborne, Blackmon, Richardson or Tannehill THEN
Quote: Im not sure the DB is reading anything there, he clearly takes his eyes off Tannehill before he throws it, then looks at the ball when it was in the air again..I think you over-interpret that play
It can ambiguously read that way, but I didn't say the DB waited until Tannehill patted the ball, only that in the NFL DB's will use that as a way to read when he's going to make a throw. I'm also of an old-school camp which says anytime you're trying to change something a QB does at the fundamental or instinctual level, you're not going to have an overwhelming high success rate.
Patting the ball is instinctual. Even though he's young and inexperienced, it's still going to be hard getting him away from that.
We see examples of just how hard it is to get QB's to change things all the time. The most recent example has been all this BS about Tebow shortening his motion. Sure, it looks shorter during workouts, but when the game is going, he reverts back. He always will. It's his natural motion and it's instinctual and it won't change.
Now I do want to be fair and say that this isn't a really big issue. It's not like trying to shorten his release. I'm using it as an example to show why he's not in the same class as Luck and Griffin, and therefore a reach if we were to take him at #4.
Quote: Is he the 4th best prospect day 1? No way, but does he have the highest ceiling of a high value position left? You bet...
I disagree. That distinction goes to Kalil.
Quote: Best VALUE imho is JAX calls us to jump STL for Blackmon
I don't think Blackmon has that kinda value, as I don't think he's that much more gifted than the rest of the guys in the class. Do I think he's the best? Yes I do. Do I think I would rather have him over one of the other next two or three receivers AND a 1st round pick next year or the 39th pick in this draft? No I don't.
Gonna steer this back to Tannehill, there's no doubting the tools. However, to put this in over-simplistic terms, he's great at playing catch, but falls apart when he gets pressure or has to read defenses and work down the reads. That doesn't tell me he's a value at #4. That tells me he's a reach out of desperation, and teams that reach have historically failed far more than they've succeeded.
Quote: he's great at playing catch, but falls apart when he gets pressure or has to read defenses and work down the reads.
Untrue. The kid has excellent composure and does a very good job of escaping pressure and finding the open man. Even when forced to move, he keeps his eyes down field and is looking for the open man.
You are the only one that says he doesn't progress through his reads. I'll take Casserly's and Mayock's word for it as both have stated on numerous occasions that he does an excellent job in progressing through his reads.
He must improve in his ability to read defenses and that will come with time and experience.
As for patting the ball, this is something he will need to fix and that is by practicing his drops with an oversized football. Makes the QB concentrate on keeping the ball high and using both hands to keep it up high. Patting the ball is something is annoying to NFL coaches and they will get rid of it.
He has come a long way in improving his mechanics also. By the time he played in the northwestern game that dipping the shoulder was almost completely removed.
After watching game film of Texas A&M QB Ryan Tannehill, NFL Films guru believes he is a superior prospect to 2011 No. 12 overall pick Christian Ponder. Ponder skeptics may argue that he was a second-round talent. Tannehill possesses a legit first-round skill set, however, with plus pocket mobility, a willingness to "make stick throws," and the ability to make legit NFL throws on game tape coming from Texas A&M's aggressive pro-style scheme. Per Cosell, Tannehill "may have the best pocket command and mobility in the class."
Quote: You are the only one that says he doesn't progress through his reads. I'll take Casserly's and Mayock's word for it as both have stated on numerous occasions that he does an excellent job in progressing through his reads.
They undoubtedly have more film than I do. All I have are edited video's of select games. They also have obviously more clout than I do. But I reserve the right to disagree with them. Afterall, here's something Casserly said about Brady Quinn, per CBS draft insider, circa 2007:
Quote: Brady Quinn would be ranked behind Matt Leinart and Jay Cutler. (Getty Images) I asked 16 teams last fall for my segment on the CBS pregame show: If you take Brady Quinn in the draft, do you have your QB problems solved? All 16 said yes, and I agree with them.
Taking this a step further, Mayock had Blaine Gabbert rated higher than Cam Newton, and said this:
Quote: NFL Network chief draft analyst Mike Mayock rendered his verdict on QB Blaine Gabbert following Missouri's pro day Thursday.
"Bottom line, he's the first quarterback off the board, and it wouldn't surprise me if Carolina takes him at No. 1," Mayock said on Path to the Draft.
So sure, they are the talking heads, but sure, they are wrong quite often.
I'm not doing this out of spite, but I wanted to see what Mayock really said about Tannehill. I came up with this:
Quote: For as much as he likes Tannehill and his potential, however, Mayock doesn’t see the 6-foot-4, 222-pounder as ready to take over as a starter right away.
“Tannehill has 19 starts, and he’s a former wide receiver,” Mayock said. “I can see all the attributes of a Locker in Tannehill. He’s a big, strong kid that can push the ball down the field. He’s athletic. I like everything about him except for the fact that on tape, I think he stares his receivers down and waits for them to come up before he rips it. That’s typical of a young quarterback without a lot of starts. I look at him and say kind of like Jake Locker. He’s going to take a little bit of time. It’s going to take a year or so. Nineteen starts is not a lot of starts for a college quarterback.”
Then this from Mayock's interview with Florio:
Quote: "There's something pretty interesting about this Tannehill kid," Mayock told Mike Florio.
Star-divide
"You know the background," Mayock continued. "He was their leading wide receiver in '08 and '09, and then gets converted to quarterback half-way through the 2010 season. He's only got 19 starts at the quarterback position, which is not enough, in my opinion, for most guys coming out. Does he have some development ahead of him? Absolutely."
Tannehill is a tall, commanding figure in the pocket with a big arm and the athletic ability to extend plays. The small sample size is a concern, and operating out of a college spread offense, Mayock sees one chief flaw in Tannehill's game at the moment: a lack of anticipation.
"What I see though, Mike, is a kid that has a big arm; understands and has a work ethic and a passion for the game; and the thing that he doesn't have that needs to develop... he lacks some anticipation, and he'll throw late into coverage," Mayock said. "In other words, he doesn't have enough trust in himself yet where he can throw a guy open. He's got to see the guy open before he throws it."
I haven't found anything from Mayock about Tannehill doing a good job of making reads.
To be fair, I did find that Casserly said what you've stated:
Quote: 3. Ryan Tannehill, Texas A&M. He has only been the starting QB for the past year and half. I like him. He is very athletic. He can make plays running and passing the ball outside the pocket. He has a strong enough arm to throw the deep out, which is a measuring stick for me. He has played in a pro-style offense and operated behind center quite a bit, which puts him ahead of many college QBs. Despite his inexperience at the QB position he has shown me the ability to go through a progression of reading a defense. I have seen him on a number of occasions get to his second or third option. His accuracy is above average. I like his ability to throw deep. He needs some work on his ball placement with receivers even though I like his accuracy. At times, he pats the ball before he throws it. This telegraphs his throws. I did not see him make many "wow" throws, but it is possible I might not have seen the right games. Joe Flacco went No. 18 and Josh Freeman went No. 17 in the first round. I liked both of those QBs coming out, but I would rate Tannehill ahead of them.
But I haven't seen it on the games I've found, which have been numerous. If he's watched all 19 starts then maybe he's seen something I haven't, but on the 5-6 or so games I've looked at he didn't show anything when it came to moving through his progressions. In fact, not too many of the scouting reports around the net say much about his ability to go through progressions.
Sorry, Mourg, but I haven't seen that out of him, Casserly be damned. All I see are locked eyes on his primary, then things break down for him when he has to go away from that. I don't believe he has good pocket awareness, which is different from his escapability in the pocket.
He's a huge risk for us at #4. That's way too soon to take a developmental guy, and if Mayock says he's in the same mold as Locker and the like, Hell no I don't want him at #4.
I'll end today's rant against Tannehill by quoting the source I've found to be the most accurate amongst their piers over the years, which is Walterfootball. Here's their take on Tannehill:
Quote: Ryan Tannehill, QB, Texas A&M Height: 6-4. Weight: 221. Projected 40 Time: 4.61. Hand: 9. Projected Round (2012): 1. 3/5/12: Tannehill is working his way back from a foot injury and couldn't work out at the Combine. However, he has his hand measure, and the number was alarmingly small. Tannehill's small hand size could lead to a lot of fumbles in the NFL. He is getting pushed higher into the first round because of the demand at the position.
Tannehill had some massive games in 2011. He also had some bad performances in the second half of games that contributed to the Aggies blowing big leads, and thereby losing games, to Oklahoma State and Arkansas. Tannehill threw three interceptions per game against the Cowboys, the Sooners and the Longhorns. For the season, he completed 62 percent of his passes for 3,744 yards with 29 touchdowns and 15 interceptions. Tannehill is an excellent athlete and is very dangerous running with the football. Aside from his passing, he ran for 355 yards with four touchdowns. Tannehill has a strong arm with the potential to grow into an accurate passer. The senior also has special mobility.
Tannehill still needs to make up for a lot of lost time to learn the mental necessities of the position. The lack of quarterbacks in this class pushes him into first round, but he will enter the NFL with only 20 starts at quarterback. Tannehill has a special skill set, but he is going to need a lot of grooming at the professional level. However, the unknown of if Tannehill can handle it, pushes up the riskiness of picking him. He should be a second-day pick, but the demand for the position has seen his stock rise significantly.
I had no idea about his hand-size. That was a HUGE red flag of mine for old Chuck Frye.
Now I like Tannehill even less. He's a 2nd tier prospect who is going to go 1st tier because of desperation. If we do this, we're reaching badly...
Ok, had some time to kill while some jobs were running and figured I would give it a fair shot. Here is every pass (yds are what he threw, routes are what I could gather as they didn't always show them).
I noted the plays I thought were especially good and bad.
7yd out right – complete & immediate tackle 6yd out right – complete & immediate tackle 8 yd out left – greatly overthrown high and inside, incomplete QB draw up the middle – good speed – long TD Move in pocket, find open WR 15yd downfield in middle, complete (nice play) 2yd out (dump off) – fires like rocket and high, incomplete Roll right, shovel pass Scramble right, sack (didn’t show downfield) 4yd DB-pick play – 1st down complete (nice design play by Sherman) 6yd out left – DB jumps route and bats it away -1yd out right – complete and on target Slant to middle, S jumps route, WR pulls the ball away from him, TD 13yd hitch left, complete Deep post middle, double covered, batted away Roll right, hits short dump-off Short out right – complete QB draw snuffed out. Slant/stop middle right, complete 6yd out left thrown out of bounds (WR tripped but the ball was so far out – didn’t look like Tannehill could see the trip before the pass) Shovel pass Wide open 10yd slant middle, complete (WR later fumbles) 15yd hitch left – DB jumps route and picks it off (WR did stumble, but DB was playing it inside the whole way. Possible bat away instead of INT without the stumble though) Deep throw left, DB had WR pinned on sideline and only DB had a play on this ball, incomplete. Pressure, steps up but gets nothing on the ball, throws short into triple coverage, easy INT 5yd out right, way off target (pressure in front of him) Feels pressure too late, sack Nice 20 yd seam route throw and completion (maybe his best throw of the day) 4 yd dump-off to middle 8yd slant, DB had inside, bad read, incomplete 5yd out left, complete (right at the sticks) 0yd screen left, a little pressure and he flubs the pass, incomplete No pressure, 10yd hitch left, ball batted down at LOS 3yd dump-off to left (on 3rd and 10 – RB makes nice move to make it close) 4yd out left, immediate tackle 6yd stop-route left, immediate tackle (just beyond the sticks though) Deep go route, DB had good position, ball underthrown, WR doesn’t adjust, incomplete 5yd out left, DB completely jumps, does get completion 7yd out right for 1st down 12yd slant right, WR straight-up drops it. 10yd hitch left, 1st down QB draw 4yd out left 4yd out left, TD (nice fake-slant by Fuller to get DB to bite in) Dump-off out right Deep hitch left (doesn’t show), DB was in position with help from 2 others nearby. Bad read, ball tipped, INT, game over.
Now, why did I highlight a play that ended in the WR fumbling, which has little to do with Tannehill? Because one of his greatest negatives is that he let's what happens in the game affect him to the point where he self-destructs. Happened time and time again last year.
From that point forward, he was throwing the ball much more wildly and not making the same plays he did earlier. During this time, A&M went from a comfortable lead to a 10pt deficit. Outside of 1 really nice throw (one of the better ones that I have seen from him at all), the rest of the way he was checking down more often and bad things were happening when he didn't.
Marino use to pat the ball. But then it didn't really help the DB's other than getting a better look at the smoke coming off the ball as it wizzed by them
Quote: Marino use to pat the ball. But then it didn't really help the DB's other than getting a better look at the smoke coming off the ball as it wizzed by them
So did Kosar.
You're showing your age, ABF
If he's Marino-like, then no problem. If he's mortal, it's something he'll need to improve upon if he wants to be the best.
Quote: HEL: Hey Tolstoy!
How about keeping your replies under 10,000 words.
Quote: I had no idea about his hand-size. That was a HUGE red flag of mine for old Chuck Frye.
Now I like Tannehill even less. He's a 2nd tier prospect who is going to go 1st tier because of desperation. If we do this, we're reaching badly...
Sorry for cherry picking one "minor" thing from the great stuff you've been posting about Tannehill but hand size is a BIG issue for me too. I have 9" mitts like Tannehill (but I'm barely 6'0", not 6'4") and I'll tell you right now, it's not easy to maintain control of the football if conditions are poor.
At minimum, I'd like a QB prospect to have 9 1/2" hands (which are still on the smallish side) if not 10" because anything less than that and ball security can be a real issue in bad weather. We saw Colt struggle controlling the ball in rain several times last year and his hands are bigger at 9 3/8". Tannehill's 9" hands are the smallest in the draft at QB and are another red flag on a prospect I'm terrified of taking at #4.
OK finally found time to watch Tannehill video. things I saw:
-For one I do not see this kid having an NFL arm whatsoever. it is just mediocre. -His throwing motion is horrible. His release point is below his ear almost shoulder level. Throws almost sidearm and pushes the ball out. His footwork is very slow setting up for the pass. Doesn't keep his feet moving and stands almost still. -Pocket presence is so-so, stands damn near flatfooted in the pocket. -almost every pass looked like his first read. Didn't get too many oppurtunites to see how he does in his progressions. -His throws weren't all that accurate. He had some decent timing throws with curl routes. His throw to the sidelines need some work and more zip. I dont see him making NFL throws. Looks like straightline passes to whomever or whichever route he goes too. Trajectory needs work. The Fly route on the left in the second half was way underthrown and inside. Not sure if he was attempting a backshoulder throw or didnt get enough arm on it to go downfield (receiver had to slow down and come back inside.)
I don't see how anyone is considering him a 1st rounder. He is a developmental project and i would use a 3rd rounder on him no higher. Let him sit for 2 years and then evaluate. He is helluva athlete but QB pos. takes way more then that to be good.
I would much rather take Osweiler, Cousins, or Kellum Moore.
Yeah, like NLR pointed out, he started off really well and then just kind of went to crap. He definitely has some tools but man, he seems inconsistent.
I don't want to hear about "developing" people who have deficiencies in their game or their focus. If people need to be developed o acclamate to a system, that is one thing. But developing physical and mental consistency seems pretty risky to me. At number 4? I'd be pretty bummed.
BTW, here's another video from this year. Great throw to the TE at the end, but throws seemed to lack zip throughout the game, which is not an issue I'd seen from him in other videos. I really like Swope, though.
Browns will bring in Ryan Tannehill for pre-draft visit Posted by Michael David Smith on March 27, 2012, 1:55 PM EDT Texas v Texas A&M Getty Images
Although Browns coach Pat Shurmur says his team is moving forward with Colt McCoy at quarterback, drafting Texas A&M quarterback Ryan Tannehill remains a possibility.
Mary Kay Cabot of the Cleveland Plain Dealer reports that the Browns will bring in Tannehill as one of their 30 pre-draft visits. That doesn’t necessarily mean the Browns view Tannehill as their best bet with the fourth overall pick in the NFL draft, but it’s still a move they’re considering. And NFL Network’s Mike Mayock endorsed Tannehill as the player the Browns should take.
“Franchise quarterback trumps all,” Mayock said on Path to the Draft. “We talk about that all the time, and I don’t believe Colt McCoy is the answer. And I do believe Ryan Tannehill could become the answer. So I believe at No. 4 they ought to pull the trigger on Tannehill.”
The question is whether they’d be passing up on an offensive playmaker they love when they pulled the trigger on Tannehill. Alabama running back Trent Richardson and Oklahoma State receiver Justin Blackmon are other potential targets for the Browns at No. 4. But Mayock said the Browns would be better off drafting Tannehill at No. 4 and then using their second first-round pick, the 22nd overall selection they acquired from the Falcons in last year’s Julio Jones trade, on a running back or receiver.
“Don’t forget, Cleveland’s got No. 22 in the first round,” Mayock said. “So don’t look at this as just No. 4. You’re trying to come out of this draft the best you can. And if you want a tailback because you lost Peyton Hillis, how about Doug Martin? How about David Wilson? At No. 22 you can get one of those tailbacks. If you need a wide receiver at No. 22, what about Kendall Wright? The way I think they have to look at this thing is, go get the franchise quarterback, sit him on the bench for a little bit behind Colt McCoy, get him comfortable, and then at 22 get yourself a playmaker.”
Fourth overall is higher than most people think Tannehill will go. But if the Browns think there’s a chance Tannehill will be their franchise quarterback for years to come, they can’t pass him up. web page
"... could become the answer" is a long way from "... WILL become the answer." If RG3 is a risky top 5 pick (which I think he is - particularly given what Washington paid to get to #2), Tannehill would be a patently stupid risk given the other talent we're going to be able to pick from at #4.
With all the holes we have to plug, we can't go wrong with BPA at #4. We can go horribly wrong taking a project QB at #4, however.
Due diligence and posturing. I wonder if Miami bites on this? Browns are said to be willing to deal with any team in the top 8. Heckert has a very good possibility of being able to trade down twice within the first 8 if he plays his cards right and the stars align. Can you imagine dropping to 8 and still being able to get Richardson and picking up extra high picks along the way..at 22 they could go with Hill and still have two seconds or a second and three thirds and two fourths to maneuver and address needs. I'm excited!
Quote: Due diligence and posturing. I wonder if Miami bites on this? Browns are said to be willing to deal with any team in the top 8. Heckert has a very good possibility of being able to trade down twice within the first 8 if he plays his cards right and the stars align. Can you imagine dropping to 8 and still being able to get Richardson and picking up extra high picks along the way..at 22 they could go with Hill and still have two seconds or a second and three thirds and two fourths to maneuver and address needs. I'm excited!
I'm so excited i'll be dissapointed if we stay at 4...
Wow..that brought back memories..I am trying to remember who that was calling Quinn his "Boy", and totally forgot about that. He was sure as you know what that Quinn was the answer though.
Wow..that brought back memories..I am trying to remember who that was calling Quinn his "Boy", and totally forgot about that. He was sure as you know what that Quinn was the answer though.
it was Diam and he ran away tail tucked between his legs after that. luckily, Mourg has more scruples than that.
Quote: it was Diam and he ran away tail tucked between his legs after that. luckily, Mourg has more scruples than that.
He called me everything under the sun. Talking loud doesn't make you right. Like me thinking Burfict was a first rounder and I didn't put weight or thought into his Character. Turns out the guy is lazy and will be the downfall of himself if he doesn't start changing his attitude and work ethic. I was wrong and despite being a top ten pick at the beginning of the year in many mocks and my love for his tenacity has proven why some players are not worth it. I have been right more than I have been wrong and as of now I was totally wrong about the guy. I would take him in the fourth round and break him down. He would carry other rookies pads drafted ahead of him just to prove a point and who is boss, because he needs it. I will tuck my tail but not because I am afraid to admit I was wrong but because I am a Man of my word. Anyway, I like Tannehill but not at 4 in where he is in his development but do think he will have a better career than Griffin. It is a crapshoot though and not a pick we can afford to make at this point that early with the holes we have. I would take him in the second round for sure. The good news is every year there is a new crop of can't miss QB's and QB's with great upside. It's like my Dad always told me growing up..Women are like buses if you wait long enough, another one will come around.
If ...... If ...... If the Browns trade down to #6 or so, and add a 2nd and another mid round pick next year, then I might say just go with Tannehill. What the hell, we have to start drafting QBs if we want to find one .... and going into this season with just McCoy seems like a recipe for disaster to me. I am not convinced that Weeden is going to be the answer, so if we can add another 2nd rounder, then I might be OK with taking Tannehill around 6-7.
I don't known that he will be any better than McCoy, but he would be hard pressed to be worse. Plus,, he was able to learn the offense mid season and was able to be effective.
His late game collapses worry me, as they imply that teams figure him out and how to stop him. The 2nd half has been unimpressive for him, with him throwing 8 TD and 9 INT in the 2nd half of games last year, compared to 19 TD and 6 INT in the 1st half of games. He didn't seem to be as good later in the season as earlier in the season either. I know that they lost a lot of game sin the 2nd half last year.
I am hopeful that the football gods will look down upon us with favor for once, and maybe slide us a miracle QB. Who knows? He can't suck worse than what we've seen here lately. (with a 1 year exception)
One concern I do have about Tannehill is his smallish hands. He has the smallest hands of any QB in the draft at 9 inches. I just wonder about gripping that ball on a frozen lakefront. I know it is weird but they measure them for a reason. He is smart and Athletic and looks great in the pocket..Just getting a lake effect snow and a glazed over ball might give him some problems..
Quote: That will work been a few years since i have been to one. Taking care of mom full time and not working doesn't provide many opportunities.
That would be perfect and a privilege than. I took care of my Mom too. We will set it up..If there is a particular game you would like to see let me know and I will see what I can do.
The Packers’ Brett Favre had his hand measured at 10 3/8 inches, from thumb tip to pinkie tip, during the National Football scouting combine in 1991. Favre’s grip on the ball is so enormous that the thumb and little finger of his outstretched right hand probably would cover almost exactly half the circumference of an NFL football.
Daunte Culpepper’s hand size was 9½ inches at the ’99 combine. Culpepper’s hand measurement of 9½ isn’t extremely low by NFL standards, but for someone his size (6-4, 264), it is. Not only the size but also the unusual shape of Culpepper’s hands was a concern not only for the Vikings but other NFL teams before the ’99 draft. Several sources confirmed that Culpepper has what is commonly referred to as a “web hand.” It’s a hereditary condition in which his fingers don’t separate easily because the skin between them is connected upward toward the knuckles more than normal.
Michael Vick, who stands barely 6-0, has merely an 8½-inch hand. However, Drew Brees, who stands just 6-0½, has a hand of 10¼.
In the ballyhooed quarterback class of 1999 that included Culpepper, Tim Couch’s hand was 9 7/8, Donovan McNabb’s hand was 10-0, Akili Smith’s was 9¾ and Cade McNown’s was 9 3/8.
A list of other quarterbacks and their hand sizes includes Brad Johnson (10 1/8), Patrick Ramsey (10-0), David Carr (9¾), Joey Harrington (9¾), Trent Dilfer (9 5/8), Jay Fiedler (9½), J.T. O’Sullivan (9½), Jake Plummer (9¼) and Chris Chandler (9¼).
One of the largest measures of any quarterback drafted in the first round was the 11¼ of Jim Druckenmiller. He was a bust, as was Heath Shuler (10 5/8 ). David Klingler (9¼) had a small hand and flopped.
I actually had read that a few minutes ago. I just had to satisfy my own curiosity.
9" hands are small by NFL standards. That explains why Tannehill pushes the ball somewhat. Same thing with Chuck Frye and the like.
The vast majority of NFL QB's with below-average size hands had fumbling problems. Jason Campbell has small hands for a guy his size, though his hands are just a tick larger than Tannehill's, and Campbell has fumbling issues.
Does that mean Tannehill will fail? No, it doesn't. However, the more I see of him, the more incredible I find it to be that he could go top-10 in the draft.
Good luck to the team that decides to throw the dice on him that early in the draft. I haven't seen a prospect with this kind of inflated value since...well...last year in Christian Ponder and Blaine Gabbert.
Cosell: Tannehill throws on the run better than Luck or Griffin
March 28, 2012, 7:13 AM
With talk around the NFL that Texas A&M quarterback Ryan Tannehill could be drafted as high as fourth overall to the Browns, more analysts are talking up Tannehill’s tape. And Greg Cosell of NFL Films has offered up an assessment that gives plenty of reason to like Tannehill’s chances of going very high in next month’s NFL draft.
“One benefit of Tannehill’s three-quarters delivery is it allows him to throw very well on the move, both to his right and impressively, to his left,” Cosell writes. “In fact, he’s a better, more accurate passer on the run than either Andrew Luck or Robert Griffin. Tannehill was very efficient off the boot-action pass game. That will translate very well to the NFL.”
Cosell has some concerns about Tannehill, including missing some throws, a tendency to lock his front leg as he delivers the ball, and poor reads of the defense — especially not seeing the safeties. And Cosell said he didn’t see the improvement over the course of Tannehill’s 19-start college career that he would have liked.
But Cosell says Tannehill compares favorably to last year’s 12th overall pick, Christian Ponder, and that some quarterback-needy team is going to take him high.
“Tannehill is a better prospect than Christian Ponder was a year ago,” Cosell writes. “Tannehill possesses the skill set to be a quality NFL starter. At this point, he would be best in a quick-rhythm, short-to-intermediate passing game that featured play-action and boot-action passes. One thing we know for certain: He likely will be drafted higher than his body of work suggests he should be.”
Quote: I actually had read that a few minutes ago. I just had to satisfy my own curiosity.
9" hands are small by NFL standards. That explains why Tannehill pushes the ball somewhat. Same thing with Chuck Frye and the like.
The vast majority of NFL QB's with below-average size hands had fumbling problems. Jason Campbell has small hands for a guy his size, though his hands are just a tick larger than Tannehill's, and Campbell has fumbling issues.
Does that mean Tannehill will fail? No, it doesn't. However, the more I see of him, the more incredible I find it to be that he could go top-10 in the draft.
Good luck to the team that decides to throw the dice on him that early in the draft. I haven't seen a prospect with this kind of inflated value since...well...last year in Christian Ponder and Blaine Gabbert.
I guess my question still remains that when winter comes and the ice and snow and rain coupled with throwing in the wind, could that be a problem? Is it something they even consider? He would do well in the South with his little hands but most of the teams we play late in the year are up North in Pitt, Balt, Cinci., etc. Just Curious..
Simple physics tell us he'll have more problems in cold weather than the average QB.
On the importance scale of attributes, having small hands isn't a major factor, but it is a factor. It tells us he's going to fumble more than the average NFL QB. So now each person has yet another factor to consider when evaluating Tannehill.
I understand the desire to knock a guy you may not want, but is the hand issue really half as significant as the height issue of any of the Qb's that have it.
Just curious, because I don't recall reading of a small hands issue on any player in years.
Edit: I recall Jevon Kearse, defensive lineman being reported as having Huge hands.
I agree and even when he is in the pocket and a defender swipes at his arm his little grip of the ball could be easier to knock out. It definitely will make a difference on accuracy and arm strength in bad conditions if he has to push the ball more in order to not lose control of it during his motion.
Quote: I understand the desire to knock a guy you may not want, but is the hand issue really half as significant as the height issue of any of the Qb's that have it.
Just curious, because I don't recall reading of a small hands issue on any player in years.
Who said I didn't want him? I like him, but not at 4. I would be fine taking him in the second round which is what he is rated as. We can't take a gamble on upside at 4 or what he can project to be. It's as simple as that with where we are at this point. I think it is an issue, why else do they measure their hands?
We'd have a shot at getting Blackmon AND additional ammo to trade back up for Richardson while losing nothing.
Time to start selling the idea of Tannehill to Miami.
to do that then we have to sell Miami on the idea that we are taking Tannehill. perhaps we could bring him in for a visit and really talk him up to our media friends. oh wait!
I think the Browns should take Tannehill at 4,( and you can use that against me in the furture,), , and that is Not saying I think he will be any good. I just think it is the move. IF he's even available at 4. And it's mainly because they haven't done anything at quarterback to this point.
And He won't be there at 8. Even though he should be there at 22, or even 30, Should has nothing to do with it, but he's got a premium price, He won't be there at 8. Who knows, look up the last time 2 qb's went 1 and 2, I think the next one went 33 or something like that.
Kind of like one of those big men in the Nba draft who get picked because they're big I think he'll be great. Maybe, I definetly think he can throw the ball well, I think he's got that winners fire in his chest.
I think he gives you a better chance to win, because they have to be able to throw the ball.
Quote: Simple physics tell us he'll have more problems in cold weather than the average QB.
On the importance scale of attributes, having small hands isn't a major factor, but it is a factor. It tells us he's going to fumble more than the average NFL QB. So now each person has yet another factor to consider when evaluating Tannehill.
To a degree my old friend.
On the other hand, as a ex receiver, possibly he has strong hands where the "3'8" isn't going to matter.
jk 9inches from the way they said from thumb to pinky is very small hands Im a normal sized guy and just measured and am at 10 3/4. I can palm a basketball but not quite off a bounce have to actually pick it up that way.
Cosell Talks: The Tannehill Project by Greg Cosell
Ryan Tannehill started 19 games at Texas A&M. I watched six of them, all from his senior season in College Station, Texas. Given his lack of experience at the quarterback position (only six starts to end his junior year), my evaluation was chronological. I was anxious to see how he progressed as he played more snaps and gained a greater feel for the subtleties of the position.
I began with Oklahoma State, A&M’s first conference matchup in the Big 12. It was the Aggies’ third game of the season, after consecutive easy wins against non-conference teams. Remember, at that early point in the season, no one knew with any certainty that Oklahoma State would be a contender for the national championship. Quite frankly, that was not that relevant to me. When I study a quarterback, I am not overly concerned with the opponent. In addition, I don’t spend a lot of time analyzing the specifics of his college offense. That’s only important in one sense: You get a feel for what he’s asked to do, and then you can analyze his reads and throws accordingly. Think of it this way: If you based your evaluation of Cam Newton a year ago on the mechanics of Auburn’s run-first option offense, then you would have missed the more essential evaluation — that Newton was a special talent as a passer.
When I watch coaching tape of a college quarterback, my focus is on the attributes of quarterback play that are necessary to succeed at the position in the NFL. Passing the ball well on Sundays demands particular and identifiable traits. There’s no question different players possess these characteristics in distinctive and varying degrees. The overriding point, however, is that consistent quarterback play requires a tangible skill set that can be quantified.
Back to Tannehill — against Oklahoma State, a number of things were evident. Let’s start with arm strength, often dismissed as an overrated attribute — until, of course, it’s needed in a critical situation. Tannehill had a good arm, but not a gun. What helped him spin the ball was good weight transfer. He did not lift his back foot off the ground too soon, and effectively drove through his throws.
Three other points emerged from this game. First, he was willing to pull the trigger on difficult throws, which is a necessity in the NFL. Second, he threw the ball well and with confidence when working outside the numbers. Lastly, and surprisingly given his relative inexperience, he exhibited comfortable pocket mobility. In response to pressure, he moved within an area that approximates the size of a boxing ring while maintaining both his passer profile and his downfield focus. Pocket movement is a far more important attribute in the NFL than leaving the pocket and running.
This was one game, so these were snapshots more than final grades. As I continued with Arkansas, Iowa State and Missouri, I developed a more fully developed picture of Tannehill. His delivery was a bit low, more three-quarters than over-the-top. It was compact with good arm speed, which also accounted for the aforementioned velocity. One concern: I thought he had a tendency to lock his front leg as he delivered the ball at times. There were instances in which that hindered his usually precise ball location. Some throws were a little high, especially ones between the numbers. Those problems can be coached and fixed, but it’s a process and, at this point, a concern.
One benefit of Tannehill’s three-quarters delivery is it allows him to throw very well on the move, both to his right and impressively, to his left. In fact, he’s a better, more accurate passer on the run than either Andrew Luck or Robert Griffin. Tannehill was very efficient off the boot-action pass game. That will translate very well to the NFL.
The final two games I evaluated were Texas A&M’s contests against Oklahoma and Texas. Pocket movement remained a strong element of his game. I would argue that Tannehill exhibited the best pocket command and mobility of any quarterback in this draft class. To take it a step further, Tannehill was very good when improvising within structure. When the pressure forced him to abandon the boxing ring, he did, but the objective was again to find a quieter area to deliver the ball rather than to run. While the threat of the run was present, Tannehill remained a passer first, allowing the defense to dictate his reaction. We always talk about extending plays. Tannehill did that well, preserving his downfield focus and making accurate throws at the intermediate and deeper levels of the defense.
Some inconsistencies in his play also appeared. He did not drive the ball as well against Texas as he had in the earlier games. He missed some throws that were there; overall, his ball location was inconsistent. I am not ready to say it’s a red flag as he transitions to the NFL, but it is something to watch, especially with his tendency to lock his front leg.
One other problem became increasingly evident the more plays I watched. In every pass offense, the quarterback must locate the safeties to best determine where to throw the ball at the intermediate and deeper levels. Tannehill at times did not do a good job of verifying the positioning of the safeties after the snap of the ball. That led to some poor reads and ill-advised throws, especially against Texas. As I mentioned earlier, that can and will be fixed through coaching in the context of his NFL pass offense.
Overall, I did not necessarily see the kind of improvement over time I would have liked. In the final analysis, Tannehill is a better prospect than Christian Ponder was a year ago. Tannehill possesses the skill set to be a quality NFL starter. At this point, he would be best in a quick-rhythm, short-to-intermediate passing game that featured play-action and boot-action passes. One thing we know for certain: He likely will be drafted higher than his body of work suggests he should be. web page
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Love this stuff. Nice to actually read football breakdowns instead of fluff pieces.
Everyone has him pegged to go to Miami at 8, but wouldn't they be better off going with Moore and getting him a weapon (say Floyd) then trying to over draft a project, regardless of who their OC is?
If he gets passed 8, he drops, How far? I don't think he'd make it to 22, because that's when a team like Miami would trade up to get him...
sort of funny the last time we passed on a QB in the top5 that everyone had pegged to go Miami later in the top10, they passed on him for an undersized speed WR.
so, are the Dolphins drafting Kendall Wright and Tannehill dropping into the lower 20s when we make a terrible decision to pick him up there?
If he drops past Miami, then I don't want him...if his College HC who has a huge QB need doesn't believe in him then I don't want him either....it's at #4 (or 6-7) or not at all with Tannehill for me
Boom or bust, roll the dice or don't...I don't want another Quinn pick
Quote: If he drops past Miami, then I don't want him...if his College HC who has a huge QB need doesn't believe in him then I don't want him either....it's at #4 (or 6-7) or not at all with Tannehill for me
Boom or bust, roll the dice or don't...I don't want another Quinn pick
Wow --- "i'd take him at 4, but not after that, because then he might become Quinn"
really???
People think the draft is like madden apparently "if I pick the guy higher, they might be an 83 instead of a 79"
Quote: If they pass and Sherman was Dolphins HC, it would be a big deal but the OC not getting the player he is begging for well, that happens all the time.
So we better pick him up before we know whether they'd pass or not -- because then we won't know, and he will be good.
And passing a guy at #9 is different than passing on a supposedly first round QB in the second round (Clausen) -- that starts to say something.. Passing on a late first round QB (in many people's opinion) at #9 says nothing.
Quote: If they pass and Sherman was Dolphins HC, it would be a big deal but the OC not getting the player he is begging for well, that happens all the time.
Oh it HAS a big say...the Dolphins need a franchise QB as much as we do and they hired Sherman to coach the Offense...who do you think will they ask 1st when it comes to Tannehill? Sherman has coached both College and NFL....if he thinks Tannehill is a franchise QB then they will draft him...if we don't take him at 4 Miami has probably no shot at the top tier of prospects (Richardson, Blackmon, Claiborne, Kalil, 2x QB)...so if they are willing to be the 1st or 2nd team to dip into that wide open 2nd tier OVER Tannehill...then you have all information you need to know
I'm pretty sure we will bring in competition for McCoy and the draft is the last opportunity to do so...the only question remaining is if the FO likes Tannehill at 4 or Weeden at 22/37....Cousins has an outside shot, but he's so meh across the board that I don't see them falling in love
Ryan Tannehill impresses at his pro day March, 29, 2012 Mar 29 4:15 PM ET
By Jamison Hensley Texas A&M quarterback Ryan Tannehill had an outstanding performance at his pro day, according to NFL.com's Gil Brandt.
This likely solidified his status as a top-10 pick in the NFL draft. There was "a large contingent" from the Cleveland Browns, which included offensive coordinator Brad Childress. Dolphins coach Joe Philbin and Seahawks coach Pete Carroll also attended the workout.
Tannehill reportedly has a pre-draft visit set up with the Browns, who have the fourth overall pick in the draft.
At his pro day, Tannehill showed off his mobility, accuracy and arm strength. While he wasn't throwing against a defense, he only had three incompletions (he missed one long pass and had two drops) on 68 passes thrown. He also ran the 40-yard dash in 4.62 seconds. As ESPN's Todd McShay pointed out, Andrew Luck ran it in 4.67 seconds, although Luck is an inch taller and 13 pounds heavier.
McShay said on ESPN's "SportsCenter" that Tannehill is a legitimate top-10 pick and believes he is a better fit for the Browns than the Dolphins, who select eighth.
"I would say the Browns, because they are a better team," McShay said when asked which team was a better fit for Tannehill. "They have better parts around the quarterback position. Miami, I'm not sure what the plan is when I look at the Miami organization. While they have Matt Moore and they brought in [David] Garrard, I just don't know if you want to bring in a young quarterback with everything else that’s going on in Miami."
Fellow ESPN draft analyst Mel Kiper Jr. disagreed.
"I can see Cleveland taking [Tannehill], but I disagree with them being the best fit," Kiper said. "I think it's Miami. When you have [offensive coordinator] Mike Sherman there, you have familiarity, and there's some personnel. I think you're [McShay] underrating that personnel base a little bit. Granted they have to do some work in the draft, no question about that."
Whether or not the Browns are the best fit, Tannehill shouldn't be in the conversation for them with the No. 4 pick. That choice should be between Alabama running back Trent Richardson and Oklahoma State wide receiver Justin Blackmon.
Even though the Browns need to upgrade at quarterback over Colt McCoy, it's a stretch to validate taking Tannehill that high. There are six elite prospects in this draft (Luck, Robert Griffin III, Matt Kalil, Richardson, Blackmon and Morris Claiborne), and Tannehill is not among them. His 19 starts in college make him too much of a risk.
If the Browns decide to trade back, then they should consider Tannehill. web page
The plot for Blackmon + Richardson is going nicely
Quote: McShay said on ESPN's "SportsCenter" that Tannehill is a legitimate top-10 pick and believes he is a better fit for the Browns than the Dolphins, who select eighth.
"I would say the Browns, because they are a better team," McShay said when asked which team was a better fit for Tannehill. "They have better parts around the quarterback position. Miami, I'm not sure what the plan is when I look at the Miami organization. While they have Matt Moore and they brought in [David] Garrard, I just don't know if you want to bring in a young quarterback with everything else that’s going on in Miami."
I don't understand how it is possible for Turd McShart to be so clueless. Doesn't he know who their OC is? Doesn't he know who our WRs and RBs are? Oh wait, we don't have any!
I think he's just trying to make his mocks easier.
BTW, who was the last QB who wasn't impressive at their pro day? Luck, Griffin, Weedon, Cousins, Tannehill... what the heck is the point of a pro day, anyways? Is it just for smokescreens?
Don't be surprised to see this go Mourg., It's from a blog columnist and I got suspended for posting a blog Column. The ref was pretty clear about that and I asked to post Browns Salary breakdown by players and my permission was denied due to the fact that it was a blog, even though it was just number crunching. It was actually a good piece of information that we could have used on here due to everyone's uncertainty about the Cap hit of each player. Plus he is from Baltimore..
Interesting that people were telling me that the Browns personnel was horrifically below that of the Dolphins, yet here is one expert who believes that we have stronger talent to put around a young QB.
I would say this ...... both teams have excellent LT ...... The Dolphins have our cast off Artis Hicks penciled in at RG ...... and they have a guy with 9 starts in 4 years penciled in at RT. (at least according to their depth chart)
We have Cousins currently penciled in at RT, but I think that our OL from LT to RG is probably stronger than theirs. Modest advantage us.
They have Reggie Bush and we have a hole at RB. Advantage them.
They have Fasano at TE, and we have Watson and the cast of ... well, 3 behind him. I think that Smith and Moore are both effective role players, and I would take Watson over Fasano. Advantage us.
Their top 2 receivers are Best and Hartline. That doesn't impress me at all. I think that Little is better than either of them, and they only have 1 guy behind those 2 with more than 2 career catches. I have to go advantage us.
So ........ overall, I would have to give us an advantage in overall offensive talent. We also have an advantage in draft picks.
Quote: I disagree with Jamison because his worst fear is that the Browns would actually get a decent QB in here.
I agree with this view of Jamison. It's like he thinks the Browns are obligated to be bad and should make FA and draft moves to continue to be bad.
Agreed, maybe Baltimore should trade picks for Tannehill. Flacco isn't getting it done with all that firepower on offense and that stellar D they have had for years. He would thoroughly enjoy more years on a QB Carousel for the Browns.
I agree with the Browns having offensive talent. 1-4 on the offensive line are good and should really improve, just need the RT. Little is good outside and Cribbs & Norwood have the slot covered and Mo is good depth but we need one more legit threat on the outside. TE position while not great is above average. RB needs work but Jackson healthy and Armond Smith with a year of learning will have the 3rd down back solidified.
Aggies QB Tannehill impresses with several teams watching By Dane Brugler | The Sports Xchange/CBSSports.com
COLLEGE STATION, Texas -- After a right foot injury sidelined him for the last two months, quarterback Ryan Tannehill finally had his day to shine in front of NFL scouts and evaluators on Thursday in College Station. And he didn't disappoint.
Tannehill, NFLDraftScout.com's third-ranked quarterback, ran one 40-yard dash -- Texas A&M listed his time at 4.62 seconds -- and threw for over 30 minutes with 22 NFL teams represented.
Seattle and Miami brought the most firepower. Seahawks head coach Pete Carroll, GM John Schneider and offensive coordinator Darrell Bevell were all on hand. The Dolphins' contingent included head coach Joe Philbin and GM Jeff Ireland. The Browns sent offensive coordinator Brad Childress and quarterback coach Mark Whipple to College Station to watch Tannehill.
Tannehill completed 65 of 68 passes with two drops and one slight overthrow on a 40-yard bucket pass downfield to Jeff Fuller. He started his passing session with rollouts, bootlegs and several drop-back motions that required him to maneuver inside and outside the pocket. It became evident quickly that his foot was healed. Tannehill displayed his strong arm with very good technique, using his hips and follow-through to establish top velocity on difficult passes. He showed very good ball placement, especially on the run.
"I felt good, it was a good day," said Tannehill after his workout. "I'm a competitor. It was tough sitting on the sidelines (because of the injury). To get my day today was great and it was fun."
With scripted passes, no defensive pressure and perfect conditions throwing indoors, Tannehill was expected to look good. Most important for his pro stock -- teams saw what they needed to see -- he's healthy.
Tannehill had surgery in January after he broke the fifth metatarsal in his right foot and was forced to miss the Senior Bowl and combine. He even had to limp down the aisle with crutches at his wedding in late January. Nonetheless, the foot looked healed and Tannehill impressed those in attendance.
"He should be very proud of his workout today," said Carroll. "He did a nice job."
Tannehill ran in the high 4.5s and low 4.6s in the 40-yard dash and did not repeat the sprint as is customary. He did not participate in any other shuttle or agility drills. Tannehill, who was recruited as a quarterback out of high school, carries some questions about his playing experience with only 19 career starts under center after playing two seasons as a wide receiver.
"I had fun helping my team," Tannehill said, "but at the end of the day I wanted to be a quarterback."
Childress, the former Vikings head coach and current Browns offensive coordinator, brought a fresh perspective. He said he's fine with the lack of experience because Tannehill is extremely moldable and isn't already set in his ways.
"It's remarkable that a wide receiver came in as proficient as he did at a big-time program," said Childress. "I have no reservations (about lack of experience). I like kids who haven't been playing the position since Pop Warner."
Tannehill had dinner with the Dolphins and Seahawks -- he was dining with the Dolphins' brass when the Seahawks showed up -- Wednesday night and also mentioned several upcoming private workouts with teams. He has been working out in Florida at IMG with former Heisman Trophy winner Chris Weinke, who was instrumental in preparing 2011 No. 1 overall pick Cam Newton last year. Weinke had high praise for Tannehill's Thursday pro day.
"I couldn't be more happy with his performance today," said Weinke. "He processes at a fast pace, very good understanding of offense and had the luxury playing for a former NFL guy in college (Mike Sherman). There is no question in my mind that he's a franchise quarterback."
Former Aggies wide receiver Fuller and running back Cyrus Gray participated in the workout and both looked good catching passes from Tannehill. Sherman, the Dolphins' offensive coordinator who was fired by Texas A&M after the 2011 season, was not in attendance.
But the buzz today was about the quarterback. With Andrew Luck and Robert Griffin expected to be drafted in some order with the top two picks, Tannehill is expected next off the board anywhere from fourth (Browns) to the mid-first round. The Dolphins, who missed out on several quarterback targets in free agency, are a likely destination with the eighth pick. web page
Quote: "It's remarkable that a wide receiver came in as proficient as he did at a big-time program," said Childress. "I have no reservations (about lack of experience). I like kids who haven't been playing the position since Pop Warner."
Quote: CLEVELAND -- After watching Texas A&M's Pro Day today, NFL Network's Mike Mayock concluded that Ryan Tannehill can be a franchise quarterback and wrote on his blog "I think Cleveland has to take him at No. 4.''
Tannehill is one of about five players the Browns are considering with their No. 4 pick, and they dispatched offensive coordinator Brad Childress and quarterbacks coach to his Pro Day. The Browns will also conduct a private workout with Tannehill and bring him to Cleveland for a visit.
"He's a big, strong kid that can rip the ball,'' Mayock wrote on nfl.com. "He ran the 40-yard dash in 4.62 seconds, but we all knew he was athletic already because he’s a former wide receiver. His foot (following surgery) is fine. He threw the ball extremely well on short, intermediate and deep passes. His movement skills in the pocket were excellent; he had good feet and good accuracy on the run. Everything checks out.
Tannehill completed 65-of-68 attempts with two drops.
"I expected to see all that,'' Mayock said. "This was a scripted workout and it confirmed what I saw on tape. Potentially, down the road, he could be a franchise quarterback. The problem is, he’s not ready to play right now. He’s very raw; he only had 19 starts in college. However, because the NFL is so overheated right now when it comes to finding franchise quarterbacks, I think the kid is probably going to go higher than he should. I think Cleveland has to take him at No. 4, and if they don’t, Miami is sitting there at No. 8. So the worst-case scenario for him is, I think, that he’s going to go at No. 8 to the Dolphins.
"But I don’t think he’s ready to play Day 1. I don’t think he trusts his reads yet. He’s got a long way to go, but I think he’s got the tools necessary to be a franchise quarterback.''
Quote: "But I don’t think he’s ready to play Day 1. I don’t think he trusts his reads yet. He’s got a long way to go, but I think he’s got the tools necessary to be a franchise quarterback.''
We can't afford to have our fourth overall pick sitting on the bench. And if he does play it could be a Blaine Gabbert situation.
There was a time when pretty much all QBs were brought in and sat for a year or two. If you believe he is thee guy then you take him. If you don't believe he is going to be a franchise QB, then you pass. I would play him but Holmgren would redshirt for certain if we were to take him.
Quote: "I would say the Browns, because they are a better team," McShay said
and we'll continue to be the better team by passing on Tannehill
I disagree man....this is past the point of a few message board posters saying maybe we need to look at this Tannehill kid, and even past the point of the so called draft experts in the media. Now proven NFL'ers are saying he is a top 10 talent.
At some point you have to get a QB. I know we don't have one now.
Is Tannehill the guy??? I don't know.....just as I would say the same if Luck fell in our laps.
Here is how I look at it.....if we work out Tannehill and like him, we better be prepared to deal off our #22 pick if Miami even sniffs at moving up with the Vikings if they start offering Monopoly money.
I have a feeling people are going to love him and at minimum we have to deal our 3rd rounder. Someone is going to try to jump us.
Bottom line is a entertainment business can't keep taking PR hits and expect to sell tickets.
The Cleveland Orchestra is a world renowned institution. The city and area should be proud. Even if you don't like classical music, you should go at least once a year, just to support them, but now I digress. Anyway, this team is a institution, and it can't keep playing fourth fiddle.
NFL Draft Rumors: Ryan Tannehill, Justin Blackmon, Trent Richardson, Courtney Upshaw, Broncos
Written By: Nate Bouda |
March 29, 2012
Ryan Tannehill
Update: NFL.com’s Jason LaCanfora reports the Browns are “thinking of selecting” Ryan Tannehill with their #4 overall pick.
LaCanfora mentions that the Browns are “monitoring Tannehill closely and have favorable scouting reports.”
—————–
Texas A&M QB Ryan Tannehill was clocked at 4.58 in the forty-yard dash at his Pro Day. He also completed 65 of 68, two of which were dropped passes.
ESPN’s Adam Schefter mentions that he’s hearing that Tannehill is a “lock” to be a Top 10 pick. Mike Mayock compared Tannehill to Jake Locker and mentioned that he still needs time to “develop.“
“If Cleveland doesn’t take him at four, I have to believe Miami does at eight,” said Mayock, via the Miami Herald. “This kid has a big arm. He’s a heck of an athlete. Like Jake Locker, he’s not ready yet. He still has a lot to learn.“
Dane Brugler tweets that Tannehill has setup private workouts with the Eagles, Chiefs and Browns. Brugler also tweeted that Seahawks head coach Pete Carroll crashed a dinner with the Dolphins last night.
Justin Blackmon
NFL Films’ Greg Cosell told Sirius XM Radio that he doesn’t see the characteristics of an elite receiver prospect in Oklahoma State WR Justin Blackmo.
“I struggle with Justin Blackmon,” Cosell said, per Ross Tucker . “He’s not an elite prospect like Andre or Calvin Johnson. (Michael) Floyd’s right there with him.“
This isn’t the first time that we’ve heard this regarding Blackmon but there’s really no one that’s heads above him. Michael Floyd and Kendall Wright have both increased their draft stock since the beginning of the process but neither or them have done enough to supplant Blackmon as the #1 receiver in this year class. With that being said, Floyd certainly has the ability to be a better receiver than Blackmon but there’s no guaranteeing that.
We have Blackmon listed as the #8 and Floyd as the #10 best prospects in our Top 50 Big Board. Trent Richardson
NFL Network’s Lindsay Rhodes reports that Alabama RB Trent Richardson ran times of 4.46 and 4.51 in the forty today at his Alabama’s Pro Day.
If these end up being the official times, Richardson would have done everything possible to solidify him as a Top 10 pick in this year’s draft. Mike Mayock has called him the best running back prospect since Adrian Peterson.
We have him listed as the #4 best prospect in our Top 50 Big Board. Courtney Upshaw
Josh Norris of Rotoworld.com tweets that Alabama DE/OLB Courtney Upshaw posted forty times of 4.81 and 4.81 today.
Norris adds that Upshaw lacks “elite burst” and ”wins with persistence and tenacity.”
Many felt that Upshaw would end up being a Top 10 pick but his stock draft has been declining in recent weeks thanks to a poor performance at the Combine and some average at best forty times.
We have him listed as the #16 best prospect in our Top 50 Big Board but he could continue dropping as the draft nears. Mark Barron
Josh Norris of Rotoworld.com tweets that Alabama SS Mark Barron ran forty times of 4.54 and 4.73 during Alabama’s Pro Day.
Barron ‘s coming off of double hernia surgery so this is definitely a step in the right direction. The 4.73 time was reportedly because of a poor start so that may not be as big of a red flag as it seems.
It’s hard to say where Barron’s stock is currently sitting considering the injury, but he figures to be a first-round pick at this point in time. Broncos
Jeff Legwold of the Denver Post expects the Broncos to target a defensive tackle with their first-round pick.
Denver lost Brodrick Bunkley to the New Orleans Saints last week which only makes it even more imperative that they address the position in the early rounds of the draft. The Broncos could be looking at anyone of Devon Still, Jerel Worthy, Kendall Reyes or Michael Brockers at #25 overall.
We actually have the Broncos going with Brockers in our most recent 2012 NFL Mock Draft. One Liners
Nate Ulrich tweets that a league source confirms that the Browns will meet with Justin Blackmon. Mary Kay Cabot adds that Morris Claiborne, Trent Richardson, Brandon Weeden & Kirk Cousins are also scheduled to visit the team. Tony Pauline of SI.com tweets that Wisconsin G Kevin Zeitler will join C Peter Konz during next weeks workout. Tony Pauline also mentions that Karl Dunbar of the New York Jets put UConn DT Kendall Reyes through position drills yesterday. Tony Pauline notes that the Jets have not scheduled visits with with either Alabama DE/OLB Courtney Upshaw or Illinois DE Whitney Mercilus. web page
Bottom line is a entertainment business can't keep taking PR hits and expect to sell tickets.
While that's true a professonal football team cannot run their "entertainment business" based on PR moves. If they take their time, make good decisions and slowly build a winning football team the tickets will sell themselves.
Winning cures everything.
Even though football people know a professional football team is a part of the entertainment business, football people are in it to win games not PR challenges. Unless they are being steered by their owner, who is not a football man but a business man, their first choice will be to do what is necessary to win games not necessarily win over the public at the risk of not winning games.
Taking a guy like Blackmon or Richardson would contribute to both the increased chances of winning games and the PR challenge. Claiborne not so much on the PR front but certainly equally well in the direction of winning games.
All they have to do is build the team into a winner and all the griping and grumbling and pissing and moaning will go away without them ever bowing to making a decision based on PR.
But those football decisions and the build have to work amidst the grumbling. The PR move, if it doesn't pay off in winning, is nothing but a very short-term elation of the fans who will once again return to pissing and bitching when the wins don't come.
Brady Quinn was a PR move. It didn't last long and the result was a wasted 1st round pick which was a contributing factor in a regime being fired.
I think Holmgren has talked Lerner into letting he and Heckert build the team slowly through the draft and into accepting the growing pains that go along with it. That's why I give no credence to the "FO needs cleaned out if we don't start winning right away" kind of talk. I think they will get the time they need to finish what they started unlike anyone since our return.
We just can't keep changing regimes nor can we sign or draft players as PR moves when we so desperately need players who have a high chance of succeeding as quality starters.
Otherwise we'll be right back here again in a few years just as it's always happened and is exactly why we find ourselves in the crap were in now. Yet again.
We've been conditioned to think a regime has 3 years to build a winner and we get very impatient at that point. But we've been making wholesale changes every two or three years and what good has it ever done?
That was the Modell method. He was a TV man. To him it was all about PR. It was all about giving the fan base hope. Unfortunately, that method creates only false hope as it soon reverts back to the same 'ole thing needing another PR move to create the illusion of hope.
Keep the faith and have some real hope because these guys are doing this in a manner unlike anyone before them who has tried to build the Cleveland Browns since our return. They're doing it in a professional football manner. Build through the draft and don't throw big money around in FA. When we're winning we will still do it like that. Some moves work out. Some don't. Keep on plugging in the planned direction and we'll be back on top again.
Saw some highlights on BSPN. Loved the way he ran the 40. Looks like a track guy running it. Hated some of the push 3/4 arm shot put guide the ball crap that I saw. Ugh. He's got to learn to throw that like he does the intermediate to deep stuff with good spin.
I'll be happy if he's he pick but I want him to watch the AFC North games this year from he bench and I want to true up some of his mechanics. The ceiling is too high on this guy to pass him up.
I agree with your post 100%. I'm to the point where I am all-in with every move that Heckert and Holmgren make. I honestly think they are doing everything they can but a lot of things haven't gone their way. Just as an example, I do think they were targeting RG3 but first Matt Barkley AND Landry Jones decided not to become top ten picks. Had these guys come out RG3 would have fallen into our lap as crazy Washington would have waited for one of these other guys. Tannehill would have fallen to the 2nd round where he belongs.
Anyway, I do believe they know that a franchise QB is what is needed and they are trying to address it but they are resisting just accepting the 3rd or 4th best option with their top picks. I believe that they need to continue to build slowly and when we finally find our franchise guy this team will be loaded with talent.
I just don't want to start over again with another regime change. Please.
if we pick him, then i hope i'm wrong. i really do.
but, i don't think we pick him. heck, childress at his proday didn't even know he was a QB in HS? seems a bit strange if we were focusing on him.
also, most all articles I see on Tannehill say he's not a top10 talent but he'll get taken there because he's the 3rd best QB. that scares the heck out of me.
then, you get to his tape where he is extremely inconsistent and fell apart in the OkieState game when things soured. things sour here often, we need a QB who has resolve.
I have been saying the kid is top 15 for months and the Browns were very interested in him. It is really really rare to find a kid with all the parts including tremendous intelligence and not have him going top 2. Tannehill was a year and a half into his career as a College quarterback. He is behind where a college senior should be but he is way way ahead of what a guy with 20 starts should be.
Does anyone really believe Holmgren isn't strongly considering taking this kid? He loves the QB guru label and here is a raw kid with everything you want in a QB. You also have Heckert who is looking for his signature draft pick at the QB position. It is how general managers are remembered.
They also know he needs to sit. I don't think they have the luxury of using the fourth overall pick on a player who isn't going to play. Holmgren pretty much guaranteed that we will be "a lot better" than last year, that will be hard to do if we use our best pick on a player that shouldn't play.
See I think there is a whole new angle on this thing.
The April draft is in April and this is still March. Now when the Rg3 trade took place, ALMOST a month ago, this entire draft switched out.
Ordinarilly , this RG3 trade takes place on draft day and 30 other franchises have ehh less than 72 hours to take it all in, but NOW they have a MONTH to take it all in.
Bottom line it makes Ryan Tannehill THE #1 qb in this draft. Luck is already slotted Rg3 is already slotted. 6 months ago, Tannehil was behind, everybody, for selection in this April 2012 6 months ago, you had, Matt Barkley, you had Landry Jones.
1 month ago, you had Matt Flynn, you had Kyle Orton, Jason Campbell,
Today everybody's been signed. They played musical chairs, ( in which the Browns claimed no interest in alot of guys. ) and everybody's now sat in a chair.
The Browns are still, ahem, committed to McCoy.
All that means is, anyone who thought Tannehills value was at 22, or his value was at 30, or 32+ and it's terrible to pick him at #4, it's no longer terrible to pick him at #4.
As Me! If the Browns, found a way to trade all 13 picks this year, ( I know comp picks can't be) and pick Ryan Tannehill and nobody else, then I"d be sure they could reasonably expect to improve on the 4-12 record.
IF, the Browns add players with all 13 picks, and don't get a legitimate quarterback at all and play all of 2012 with McCoy, Wallace, Lewis, then As Me!, I can't say they could reasonably expect to improve on the 4-12 record.
Quote: They also know he needs to sit. I don't think they have the luxury of using the fourth overall pick on a player who isn't going to play. Holmgren pretty much guaranteed that we will be "a lot better" than last year, that will be hard to do if we use our best pick on a player that shouldn't play.
Tell it like it is, you dont draft a guy in the top 5 and sit him for any amount of time he is expected to come in and start DAY !. Then he becomes either Boom or Bust. If someone said well we're taking Richardson or Claiborne or Blackmon and they will ride the pine because they are not ready but have some potential I would be furious. Those guys are starters on this team 2 seconds after we draft them.
I fully expect who ever we pick at 22 to start day 1 and the guy we get at 36 to press to start before the season is over. So no way do I take a guy that is a project and needs to sit at #4.
Quote: See I think there is a whole new angle on this thing.
The April draft is in April and this is still March. Now when the Rg3 trade took place, ALMOST a month ago, this entire draft switched out.
Ordinarilly , this RG3 trade takes place on draft day and 30 other franchises have ehh less than 72 hours to take it all in, but NOW they have a MONTH to take it all in.
Bottom line it makes Ryan Tannehill THE #1 qb in this draft. Luck is already slotted Rg3 is already slotted. 6 months ago, Tannehil was behind, everybody, for selection in this April 2012 6 months ago, you had, Matt Barkley, you had Landry Jones.
1 month ago, you had Matt Flynn, you had Kyle Orton, Jason Campbell,
Today everybody's been signed. They played musical chairs, ( in which the Browns claimed no interest in alot of guys. ) and everybody's now sat in a chair.
The Browns are still, ahem, committed to McCoy.
All that means is, anyone who thought Tannehills value was at 22, or his value was at 30, or 32+ and it's terrible to pick him at #4, it's no longer terrible to pick him at #4.
As Me! If the Browns, found a way to trade all 13 picks this year, ( I know comp picks can't be) and pick Ryan Tannehill and nobody else, then I"d be sure they could reasonably expect to improve on the 4-12 record.
IF, the Browns add players with all 13 picks, and don't get a legitimate quarterback at all and play all of 2012 with McCoy, Wallace, Lewis, then As Me!, I can't say they could reasonably expect to improve on the 4-12 record.
I don't know what I'm talking about.
Are you drinkig my beers? So if we pick only 1 player Tanny you are sure we will be better then 4-12 but if we use all our 13 picks on players except QB you dont expect us to improve on 4-12?????
I will say if they had NO PICKS and fielded the team we have now adding in only street FA and UDFA I expect them to win more then 4 games next year.
Quote: Even though the Browns need to upgrade at quarterback over Colt McCoy, it's a stretch to validate taking Tannehill that high. There are six elite prospects in this draft (Luck, Robert Griffin III, Matt Kalil, Richardson, Blackmon and Morris Claiborne), and Tannehill is not among them. His 19 starts in college make him too much of a risk.
If the Browns decide to trade back, then they should consider Tannehill.
Most logical thing I've seen any talking head say. Couldn't agree more.
Quote: See I think there is a whole new angle on this thing.
The April draft is in April and this is still March. Now when the Rg3 trade took place, ALMOST a month ago, this entire draft switched out.
Ordinarilly , this RG3 trade takes place on draft day and 30 other franchises have ehh less than 72 hours to take it all in, but NOW they have a MONTH to take it all in.
Bottom line it makes Ryan Tannehill THE #1 qb in this draft. Luck is already slotted Rg3 is already slotted. 6 months ago, Tannehil was behind, everybody, for selection in this April 2012 6 months ago, you had, Matt Barkley, you had Landry Jones.
1 month ago, you had Matt Flynn, you had Kyle Orton, Jason Campbell,
Today everybody's been signed. They played musical chairs, ( in which the Browns claimed no interest in alot of guys. ) and everybody's now sat in a chair.
The Browns are still, ahem, committed to McCoy.
All that means is, anyone who thought Tannehills value was at 22, or his value was at 30, or 32+ and it's terrible to pick him at #4,
Everything Above is literally the best thing I've ever seen you post...
And then...
Quote: it's no longer terrible to pick him at #4.
As Me! If the Browns, found a way to trade all 13 picks this year, ( I know comp picks can't be) and pick Ryan Tannehill and nobody else, then I"d be sure they could reasonably expect to improve on the 4-12 record.
IF, the Browns add players with all 13 picks, and don't get a legitimate quarterback at all and play all of 2012 with McCoy, Wallace, Lewis, then As Me!, I can't say they could reasonably expect to improve on the 4-12 record.
I don't know what I'm talking about.
Just because there's no other QB, doesn't mean you HAVE to REACH for one...
I would rather trade up to 3 and draft Kalil then take Tannehill at 4...
Quote: Even though the Browns need to upgrade at quarterback over Colt McCoy, it's a stretch to validate taking Tannehill that high. There are six elite prospects in this draft (Luck, Robert Griffin III, Matt Kalil, Richardson, Blackmon and Morris Claiborne), and Tannehill is not among them. His 19 starts in college make him too much of a risk.
If the Browns decide to trade back, then they should consider Tannehill.
Most logical thing I've seen any talking head say. Couldn't agree more.
I see a LOT of wheeling and dealing come draft time. Probably for the last chair in the QB crapshoot. So.... lets try to work the board, slide a couple spots for a extra 2 or 3, take our first stud and then trade back up from 22 to steal our second stud from someone else.
Gonna be a lot of fun watching this play out. Are we just faking our interest to make another team move to 3 and take Tannehill so we get the very first choice in a non QB pick ? Is Miami doing it to us so a player slides ? Would we trade down to a team that wants the LT ?
We have ammo to slide around at will, and even more so if we move down a slot or two.
I just somehow wish the Vikings would select Blackmon instead of Kalil. The scenarios which such an action would bring in to play are so favorable for the Browns it's nearly impossible to quantify them...
Quote: I just somehow wish the Vikings would select Blackmon instead of Kalil. The scenarios which such an action would bring in to play are so favorable for the Browns it's nearly impossible to quantify them...
Doesn't Miami trading to 3 for Tannehill do the same thing for us ? Even better I would say. Unless your trying to fool everyone with your Sig and really DO want Tannehill.
Quote: I see a LOT of wheeling and dealing come draft time
I agree. This might be one of the more interesting drafts in years. The last several years I've been away on a mountain fishing trip with no TV during draft weekend. This year the trip is in May, so I'm really excited to belly up to some beers and watch the show - and I do think it will be a show in the first round!
Quote: I don't think they have the luxury of using the fourth overall pick on a player who isn't going to play.
I can't say I totally disagree with you, but the other side of the coin is that if there is a year to do that, it's this one. Why? Because we DO still have another pick in round 1. Not saying the Browns are thinking that way, but it does remain a possibility.
Thanks for the read. They did a good job with the kid. His game has been refined. Keeping the front leg relaxed and unlocked *CONSISTENTLY* was vital. Would hate to see him get that front leg rolled up on with it locked. Also helps with his accuracy.
I thought he showed more balance in his drops as well. Less thinking just dropping and popping will make him a very rich man.
"My interest in Tannehill and Cleveland is for purely selfish reasons. I've been mocking Tannehill-to-Browns for months, and pretty much everyone and their mother laughed at me for doing it. Now, it's the new fad. Also, aside from the joy it would bring me to rub it in people's faces should Cleveland draft Tannehill, I personally think he is the better pick at No. 4.
Nothing against Richardson, but this is a quarterback-driven league now. Ten years ago, absolutely I say Richardson over Tannehill. Today, running backs are a dime a dozen. The Patriots went to a Super Bowl with an undrafted player at tailback, and the Giants won two rings in four years with backs like Ahmad Bradshaw (7th round pick) and Brandon Jacobs (4th round pick). You have to throw in this league to win, and right now the Browns don't have anyone who can. If you seriously think Colt McCoy is a real NFL quarterback, I'm sorry.
No, really. I am.
Tannehill at least offers the potential to get over the hump and compete in the brutal division that is the AFC North. With McCoy, Cleveland is what they've always been since 1999, an easy win for the opponent."
I know how he feels. Browns were scouting this kid hard especially at their bowl game, I put him in my mock and everyone jumps like I insulted their children or something.
I was late to the game on Tannehill but I was about three weeks ahead of the media and "draft experts" like McShay and Mayock.
Bottom line:
If you want to have the second best QB play in the AFC North in 2013 and beyond until Roethlisberger starts to fade then draft Tannehill.
Continue to stockpile picks and groom youth. Get through this year at 6-10, 7-9 or 8-8. And be prepared to sneak into the wildcard in 2013 with competitive games against all opponents moving forward.
Yea now Mayock saying Browns should take him at 4 and McShay is saying Tannehill is every bit as good as RG3. lol RG3 doesnt care much for McShay either after saying he would move to receiver at the next level. Then RG3 lights it up this year.
Quote: CLEVELAND -- Another top draft analyst agrees with NFL Network's Mike Mayock that Texas A&M's Ryan Tannehill can be a franchise quarterback and that the Browns should draft him at No. 4.
"I don't think the difference between Robert Griffin III and Tannehill is all that big, I really don't,'' ESPN's Todd McShay said on a conference call today. "I'd have a very difficult time passing on him at that No. 4 pick. I just think he has everything you look for in a future franchise quarterback if you develop him properly and you're willing to be patient.''
McShay said Tannehill's stock is climbing so high that he's not sure if he'll be available at No. 4. The Dolphins are one team that might be interested in trading up for him.
"It'll be interesting to see if Minnesota trades out and a team tries to trade in ahead of them, maybe Cleveland won't have a chance to get Tannehill at that No. 4 spot,'' said McShay. "I think it's going to be a huge internal struggle trying to figure out if they're going to go with Tannehill and if not, what do you do? I think the whole draft swings at No. 4.''
He said he'd go with Alabama running back Trent Richardson over Oklahoma State receiver Justin Blackmon if Tannehill is gone at No. 4. But a franchise-type quarterback trumps those two positions if he's there, McShay said.
"You can have Trent Richardson and he's going to be a phenomenal back,'' said McShay. "You can have Justin Blackmon, and he's probably going to be in that second tier of wide receivers in the NFL. and that's great, but they don't win Super Bowls. We haven't seen Adrian Peterson win a Super Bowl. We haven't seen Andre Johnson win a Super Bowl. You have a great quarterback you win Super Bowls and I think Tannehill has a chance - if developed properly and you're patient with him -- to become a great quarterback. That's kind of what they're up against.''
McShay said he understands that Tannehill won't be ready to start from day one, but that Colt McCoy is professional enough to compete hard in the interim.
"If you bring in Tannehill and you sit him ideally for a year or the majority of the year, and put him in toward the end of this year to get him some experience, I do think that now you're looking at an organization that has its future franchise quarterback, has a guy that has all the physical tools, the size the arm strength, the accuracy, which continues to improve, has the right mentality, can handle pressure, and has just intangibles through the roof,'' said McShay. "That turns everything around.''
McShay said he's moved Tannehill up to No. 8 on his board after watching the rest of his film over the past four or five days/
"In my mind he was a mid- to late- first-round prospect with a lot of upside, but when you start to look at it and you take your initial bias out of it, he has everything you look for,'' said McShay. "It took taking a step back and looking at everything I had down on paper on this guy to realize he belongs in the top 10 and he has a chance to be an elite quarterback in the NFL. I think he belongs in the top 10 and I'd have no problem pulling the trigger on this guy.''
From what I've read on these boards the past couple of years, most people think McShay is an idiot. I agree with those people.
Quote: "I don't think the difference between Robert Griffin III and Tannehill is all that big, I really don't,''
Quote: You have a great quarterback you win Super Bowls and I think Tannehill has a chance - if developed properly and you're patient with him -- to become a great quarterback.
If I am drafting a quarterback 4th overall I want him to be a slam dunk in my mind. Like Luck and RGIII (for some). I do not want to sit him. If I did draft a project QB at #4 (which I wouldn't), I would want a veteran QB to start in front of him. Like Hasselbeck/Locker in Tennessee.
Quote: 2011 NFL draft: Film shows why Blaine Gabbert is atop QB board Todd McShay In preparation for Blaine Gabbert's pro day workout, Todd McShay breaks down Blaine Gabbert's performance against Iowa in 2010, one that shows why he is atop the 2011 QB class. March 17, 2011
Quote: Let’s be clear that while Gabbert is a very good quarterback he is not on the same level Atlanta’s Matt Ryan and St. Louis’ Sam Bradford were coming out of college. Gabbert is a notch below that level, similar to where Detroit’s Matthew Stafford and the New York Jets’ Mark Sanchez were when they entered the league, but he certainly has the tools to become a solid NFL starter.
Quote: "I don't think the difference between Robert Griffin III and Tannehill is all that big, I really don't,''
This guy has to be the biggest Moron there is! How in the world can he advocate trading three 1's and a second for Griffin not even a month ago when Tannehill could have been had at 6? Does he realize how stupid he sounds. I am sorry about the rant but these guys are out of Control. I guess this is great news because now if Miami wants to trade up it will cost three 1's and a second or maybe 4 1's? He threw 9 interceptions in his three biggest games and had foot surgery and now his stock has gone from late first to 2nd down to top 3? Did he squeeze in another college season why we weren't looking?
Quote: This guy has to be the biggest Moron there is! How in the world can he advocate trading three 1's and a second for Griffin not even a month ago when Tannehill could have been had at 6?
man, that was a wacky mock. Maybe the one most-fitting of the term that I've seen. I like when people propose alternative scenarios, but that had me scratching my head. Thanks for the link.
1) Tim: Colts select with the 1st pick Stanford QB Andrew Luck 2) Pat: Redskins select with the 2nd pick Baylor QB Robert Griffin III 3) Tim: Vikings trade the 3rd overall pick for next year’s first round pick with the Panthers. Minnesota moves down to 9 Panthers select with the 3rd pick Oklahoma State WR Justin Blackmon 4) Pat: Cleveland trades their pick to St. Louis. Rams take with the 4th pick LSU CB Morris Claiborne 5) Tim: Bucs select with the 5th pick Alabama RB Trent Richardson 6) Pat: Browns trade their pick to Miami. Dolphins select with the 6th pick Texas A&M QB Ryan Tannehill 7) Tim: Jaguars select with the 7th pick North Carolina DE Quinton Coples 8) Pat: Browns trade their pick to Buffalo. Bills select with the 8th pick USC LT Matt Kalil 9) Tim: Vikings select with the 9th pick Notre Dame WR Michael Floyd 10) Pat: Browns select with the 10th pick Iowa RT Riley Reiff
The only plausible reason for this would be to have any amount of ammo for next years draft without mortgaging the future in case you need to grab one of the QB's. You still have the 10th pick and you solidify your line for the foreseeable future plus get the rest of the guys you target in the draft substituting a Richardson for a Wilson or Pead, Blackmon for Jeffrey or Claiborne for one of their highly rated CB's. They would still be ahead and looking at what it cost to go up for Griffin might play a part in their decisions today for the future so they don't put themselves in the position the Redskins did.
Quote: The only plausible reason for this would be to have
an extra 3 1st round selections in the 2013 draft for dropping 6 slots (we could still very well end up with Reiff, Sanu, Wilson in that scenario).
now, there's no way it would play out like that, but it's fun to think about. and think of the threads we'd have debating which 4 guys we should select (or if we should trade all 4 picks to move up to #1 for whichever QB du joir is supposed to be taken there).
1) Tim: Colts select with the 1st pick Stanford QB Andrew Luck 2) Pat: Redskins select with the 2nd pick Baylor QB Robert Griffin III 3) Tim: Vikings trade the 3rd overall pick for next year’s first round pick with the Panthers. Minnesota moves down to 9 Panthers select with the 3rd pick Oklahoma State WR Justin Blackmon 4) Pat: Cleveland trades their pick to St. Louis. Rams take with the 4th pick LSU CB Morris Claiborne 5) Tim: Bucs select with the 5th pick Alabama RB Trent Richardson 6) Pat: Browns trade their pick to Miami. Dolphins select with the 6th pick Texas A&M QB Ryan Tannehill 7) Tim: Jaguars select with the 7th pick North Carolina DE Quinton Coples 8) Pat: Browns trade their pick to Buffalo. Bills select with the 8th pick USC LT Matt Kalil 9) Tim: Vikings select with the 9th pick Notre Dame WR Michael Floyd 10) Pat: Browns select with the 10th pick Iowa RT Riley Reiff
LOL I'd be perfectly OK with that, depending on what we get for each trade.
No way in hell do I see Kalil falling to 8 though.
1) Tim: Colts select with the 1st pick Stanford QB Andrew Luck 2) Pat: Redskins select with the 2nd pick Baylor QB Robert Griffin III 3) Tim: Vikings trade the 3rd overall pick for next year’s first round pick with the Panthers. Minnesota moves down to 9 Panthers select with the 3rd pick Oklahoma State WR Justin Blackmon 4) Pat: Cleveland trades their pick to St. Louis. Rams take with the 4th pick LSU CB Morris Claiborne 5) Tim: Bucs select with the 5th pick Alabama RB Trent Richardson 6) Pat: Browns trade their pick to Miami. Dolphins select with the 6th pick Texas A&M QB Ryan Tannehill 7) Tim: Jaguars select with the 7th pick North Carolina DE Quinton Coples 8) Pat: Browns trade their pick to Buffalo. Bills select with the 8th pick USC LT Matt Kalil 9) Tim: Vikings select with the 9th pick Notre Dame WR Michael Floyd 10) Pat: Browns select with the 10th pick Iowa RT Riley Reiff
Loyal...this mock parallels a potential scenario I brought up in another thread, only I had the Dolphins trading up to the Vikings slot to draft Tannehill.
With the best QBs off the board, the Browns might as well start planning for next years draft, trading down to accumulate more picks that can used if necessary to position the Browns so they can land a QB in next years draft.
It is best that the Browns plan ahead should the worst case scenario become reality this year. Just as this mock shows, the Browns are well positioned to trade down multiple times and still be in position to land top talent.
I'm not claiming this is how the draft will go for the Browns, but I am saying the Browns need to plan for every possible scenario...including not taking a QB in this draft, but looking ahead to 2013.
For those who are interested, here's his workout. The guy in the beginning is a total loser. But afterwards, it's the whole workout. Why is this guy wearing what he's wearing in the beginning? lol
But yeah, shows all his throws. Not really showing me anything I didn't know. Better than average NFL arm strength, not as precise as you want. Didn't know prodays had so many passes to stationary targets. Don't really see what that proves.
But, you can watch footwork and release (for those guru guys), I prefer the youtubes with every throw in games
I like his intermediate throws...the ones that travel 30 yards from A to B (not 30 yards from the LOS) a lot more than the short throws that travel 15.
5:42 5:56 6:22
An example of a throw I don't like is at 4:45. He has a tendency to push his short passes, like he's trying to guide it in mid throw. That needs to be addressed.
Overall the guy is a heck of an athlete. Plenty of arm. Runs faster than most linebackers. Watch his 40. Smooth. Compare that to another fine athlete in Andrew Luck. Watch them back to back. Really nice on Tannehill's part.
There's a whole lot to work with here and I can see him being a top end guy with the right grooming.
Quote: I don't think they have the luxury of using the fourth overall pick on a player who isn't going to play.
I can't say I totally disagree with you, but the other side of the coin is that if there is a year to do that, it's this one. Why? Because we DO still have another pick in round 1. Not saying the Browns are thinking that way, but it does remain a possibility.
Exactly....after the pick, we still have a full slate of quality picks.
Take Tannehill, then act as if the draft is just starting. If one puts it in those terms it makes a lot of sense.
It looked early on in the film that he corrected his throwing motion with releasing the ball higher... as the video went on he did still throw from below his ear on a few occasions.
Like someone else said he seems to push the ball alot in the short passes.
His footwork looked much better then in some of the game films that some people posted. And his release looked quicker.
Another knock that I have is that I really dont see this incredible arm that everyone keeps talking about. I know that throwing a tight spiral isn't indicative of how well of a passer he is but it looks like almost every pass was wobbly.
Take Tannehill, then act as if the draft is just starting. If one puts it in those terms it makes a lot of sense.
So forget about getting a quality starter for years to come in a position we need help at... lets just get a project QB w no experience simply because we have 2 first rounders?
WOW... WOW lost all respect for u Peen with that one.
All of you Tannehill torchbearers are killing me.. Mourg you especially! Aren't you always pimping the bpa philosophy?
"Upside" and potential are terms saved for the 2nd rd and beyond...
We will be picking top 10 again next year with or without your golden boy.. Difference is I don't want us passing on Aaron Murray or the likes because our F.O. will be building a team around a sub par qb that they blew their #4 pick on this year...
And Heldawg? His short game inaccuracy? Didn't DA have that same issue?
I will seriously question this f.o. if they pi$$ this thing away on a project...
The Browns 1st round pick has often been out the whole season due to injury, In Kellon Winslow's case 2 straight years. In Db, Pool or was it Sean Jones, it was the 1st and 2nd rounder for the bulk of the year.
So it's not that it would be all that out of the ordinary, to just pick Tannehill and act like the rest of the draft is just starting. If they took Tannehill and he gets better than ( something like 10 catches for 44 yards) he'd be beating KW2's stats his first year or two.
This kid is going to be a top QB in this league if groomed properly. His ceiling is every bit as high as RG3 and Luck.
It is just like people complaining about Greg Little being so raw and being a converted RB as they refuse to see just how much potential the kid has. Hell I did the same thing with Ward, I wasn't thinking ahead with his topside potential. The guy couldnt cover a fence post in college but before the injury last year, I saw tremendous growth in that area.
Heckert loves upside and Potential, do not be shocked if we go that direction on draft day.
Colt can make the long throw.. Its just not his forte so to say.
Colt needs to work on two things IMO. Colt needs to work on keeping his eyes down the field when he's in hot pursuit of a defender and working on throwing the ball a little earlier on certain routes. If he can do that.. things will open up for him.
and one thing from the video i noticed.. a speedy WR would benefit Colt.
Mour might be right about the kid.......he has lights out potential. However a phrase that I absolutely NEVER want to hear when talking about a QB prospect that the Browns might draft is........struggles with accuracy and decision making. Name me one QB who has been an upper level QB who struggles with accuracy AND decision making?? Decision making can be improved on, and accuracy can a little as well, but when you combine both of them together I can't think of a single prospect who made it.
There are lots of good QBs who had ???s about their arm strengths, intangibles, etc, but I can't think of a single one who had both of those knocks who went on to be upper half starters in the NFL. I wouldn't draft him before the latter half of round 2 or round 3, and if we draft him in the top 5 it's time to start wondering who the next FO is, because these guys will have proven themselves incompetent.
Quote: This kid is going to be a top QB in this league if groomed properly. His ceiling is every bit as high as RG3 and Luck.
Sounds like an excuse already... if groomed properly
Quote: Heckert loves upside and Potential, do not be shocked if we go that direction on draft day.
Of course you have a huge upside when your fundelmentals and experience are near the floor.
I'm sorry but I'm gonna give our FO some credit here... the only reason we may be pimping Tannehill is so that we may trade down. I don't see us going that route with the first pick AT ALL. I would be shocked if Holmgren breaks tradition and shoots for Tannehill at 4. I seriously doubt he would even pick him at 22 if he's still there. There are far too many more pressing needs that this team has and 2 first round picks to fill some holes is a blessing. I really dont see the FO going in that direction.
Quote: WOW... WOW lost all respect for u Peen with that one.
Why, because I want Tannehill at this point?? OK.(shrug)
I look at it like this, when the football guys....not Kieper and McShay, but guys Mayock and Gil Brandt are saying the guy is a top 10 talent, then I don't think taking him at 4 is a reach.
I understand you and others don't want him for one reason or another, but I won't lose my respect for you because you don't.
If I was clamoring for some total 4th rounder as the 4th pick, sure, that would be crazy, but there are people who know way more about it than I do, and most probably more than any of the posters here have him rated as a top 10 player.
It's not so much of the Opinion of who u like or dislike... its the concept of "oh well heck with it we have another pick so why not take the chance" that i disagree with.
I'm normally in the same opinion as u in most matters football or not.
Remember Mike Junkin is all I have to say.
Wait one more... Brady Quinn.
Expert or not... I watch tons more college games then NFL and I usually have a good nose for who has talent, who is incredible combine talent, and who is just a pure football player at their position. Tannehill is combine talent with no experience and I believe him to be a project reach in whatever round you get him in. You don't draft projects in the top 10. Those are suppose to be your studs that you pick and come in and start from day 1. Not reaches, not projects, not incredible athletes just because their combine numbers wow'd someon.
Quote: It's not so much of the Opinion of who u like or dislike... its the concept of "oh well heck with it we have another pick so why not take the chance" that i disagree with.
Oh, Ok....then we just disagree.
First i don't look at it like we are throwing in the towel so to speak.
Is it a risk??? Sure, but then again I think all early round QBs are risks. For all we know, Luck might suck.
My feeling is all the metrics point towards Tannehill having as good a chance to be a solid player at the position, and when I say solid I say that in context with the value of the pick, not in comparison to Colt being a fairly solid player for a 3rd round pick.
To put it in to overall context, I think Tannehill is the type of player a team can ride a long ways for a long time.
Why, because I want Tannehill at this point?? OK.(shrug)
I look at it like this, when the football guys....not Kieper and McShay, but guys Mayock and Gil Brandt are saying the guy is a top 10 talent, then I don't think taking him at 4 is a reach.
Well, Gil Brandt thought McCoy was a top 10 pick too. He came out recently and supported McCoy.... and you respect him?
Brandt said he views McCoy as a potential “top 10 guy” worthy of a first-round pick because of his work ethic, accuracy, leadership skills and long-term value.
NFL: Gil Brandt: Colt McCoy is Drew Brees on and off the field
By Jimmy Burch McClatchy Newspapers
FORT WORTH, Texas — In the copycat world run by NFL executives, former Texas quarterback Colt McCoy may have caught a break in Super Bowl XLIV.
At least that is the opinion of Gil Brandt, personnel analyst for NFL.com. Like many peers who draw paychecks as NFL talent evaluators, Brandt compares McCoy — winner of the 2009 Davey O’Brien National Quarterback Award — to Drew Brees, the New Orleans Saints’ accurate-but-undersized quarterback who became a Super Bowl MVP by leading his team to a 31-17 upset of the Indianapolis Colts. McCoy (6-foot-2, 215 pounds) is 2 inches taller than Brees (6-0, 209). But he remains short by NFL standards, where Colts quarterback Peyton Manning (6-5, 230) is considered the prototype. Manning, of course, was outplayed by Brees — arguably the league’s shortest starting quarterback — during that game. Brees completed 32 of 39 passes for 288 yards and two touchdowns, without an interception. Brandt said Brees’ prime-time performance should make NFL executives take a closer look at McCoy, who set an NCAA record for career victories by a starting quarterback (45) and finished with a career completion rate of 70.3 percent, before pulling the trigger in favor of a taller quarterback in the 2010 NFL Draft. “I think it opens some eyes. No question about it,” said Brandt, the former Dallas Cowboys director of player personnel. “To me, Colt is Drew Brees on the field and Drew Brees off the field. But he’s about two and a half inches taller and he’s faster.” For undersized quarterbacks, Brandt said Brees’ emergence as a Super Bowl winner could have similar repercussions to the Cowboys’ decision to select Bob Hayes, an Olympic sprint champion, with a seventh-round pick in the 1964 draft. Despite a limited football background in college, Hayes morphed into a 2009 inductee into the Pro Football Hall of Fame. “This is like when we drafted Hayes,” Brandt said of Brees’ potential impact on future NFL thinking. “After that, everyone started drafting those kinds of receivers. People emulate what has proven to be successful ... in every business, including the football business.” In Brandt’s estimation, that could boost McCoy’s stock in relation to taller quarterbacks who will join him at the NFL Combine, Feb. 24 through March 2 in Indianapolis. But that does not prevent ESPN draft analyst Mel Kiper Jr. from projecting Oklahoma’s Sam Bradford (6-4, 223) and Notre Dame’s Jimmy Clausen (6-3, 223) as the top two quarterbacks available in the draft. Kiper projects both players as first-round picks likely to be taken among the top 10 overall selections. Kiper rates McCoy as the third-best quarterback prospect but not as a first-round pick. Todd McShay, ESPN Scouts Inc. director of college scouting, goes even further, saying “there’s not a lot of elite quarterback prospects” available in the 2010 draft. After Bradford and Clausen, McShay said, “You have a little bit of a dropoff” in the quarterback talent pool, especially with McCoy coming off a pinched nerve in his throwing shoulder that knocked him out of the Jan. 7 BCS National Championship Game in his final college start. “I think Colt McCoy is a second- or third-rounder,” McShay said. Brandt said he views McCoy as a potential “top 10 guy” worthy of a first-round pick because of his work ethic, accuracy, leadership skills and long-term value. In short, the same attributes he admires most in Brees, a second-round pick by San Diego in the 2001 draft. Brandt is far from alone in making the connection. Archie Manning, a former Saints player who is Peyton’s father, got to know McCoy last summer at the Manning Passing Academy in Thibodaux, La. The elder Manning echoed the McCoy-Brees comparisons, saying McCoy “reminds me a lot of Drew Brees,” because both players are accurate passers with quick releases who have “better arm strength” than scouts acknowledge. Brad McCoy, Colt’s father, said the Brees comparisons “can’t hurt” as his son prepares to begin his NFL career. Colt McCoy said he has heard the Brees comparisons, understands them and embraces them. But he knows he must prove his mettle to scouts after departing with an injury five plays into Texas’ 37-21 loss to Alabama in the BCS title game. He said he is “fully confident” he will be able to do so, either at the combine or during individual workouts later this spring. “My body has responded very well so far to the things that I’ve done,” said McCoy, who has been going through rehabilitation workouts in Southern California for the past month. “I’m really looking forward to ... proving that my shoulder’s OK and being ready to go.”
At the end of the process, people have picked apart these kids game to death. Thing is the more they pick at Tannehill the more the experts fall in love with the guy and at the same time half of the big six are losing their luster.
Hell more than a few guys are starting to say that Blackmon isn't even as good as Floyd. Actually they are comparing Blackmon to Boldin and that just isn't good.
Claiborne's inability to stay low in his backpedal is making teams weary and I think he has a shot to fall to Buffalo.
Richardson was dropping passes left and right at the end of his proday and if you require your #1 to have great hands, that is now a question.
The difference in current talent level is leveling out under the microscope.
I watched all the big 12 QB's this year,and IMO the one who stood toe to toe with the other ones(RG/Luck) was not any mentioned like Tanney but actually Weeden..Tanneyhill foled in bigger games..that has caught my attention big time as had this evaluation:
Quote: I watched all the big 12 QB's this year,and IMO the one who stood toe to toe with the other ones(RG/Luck) was not any mentioned like Tanney but actually Weeden..Tanneyhill folded in bigger games..that has caught my attention big time as had this evaluation:
Quinn was said to be pro-ready, but winning the big game was a big knock on him and I guess you could say he was wound too tight also. No way am I comparing Quinn and Tannehill..but one can't discount the ability to rise to the occasion. Part of Tanny's problems have a lot to do with understanding what he is looking at and being raw, so that could change with time and is not necessarily a character trait.
Quote: I watched all the big 12 QB's this year,and IMO the one who stood toe to toe with the other ones(RG/Luck) was not any mentioned like Tanney but actually Weeden..Tanneyhill foled in bigger games..that has caught my attention big time as had this evaluation:
I think part of my issue with an OSU QB is that they seem to put up huge numbers in that system.
I always wanted Zac Robinson. Well, where's that guy now? He's been on like 4 times as a backup. I guess may be he could Jeremy Lin it somewhere, but it's not looking like he'll be anything but a number 3 QB. Nobody seems to want him.
Looking at it, Weeden put up much better numbers than Robinson did (even when Robinson had Dez Bryant), so may be i'm just upset about little love going to a guy I liked a lot.
Still 28 years old, just makes me think of Drew Henson
Again let your eyes tell the story..Weeden was very proficient in big games..he didn't regress..Tanney did..thats what bother me about RT..Weeden I like a lot in spite of his age.
Quote: Again let your eyes tell the story..Weeden was very proficient in big games..he didn't regress..Tanney did..thats what bother me about RT..Weeden I like a lot in spite of his age.
I think that it comes down to QB or WR if we stay at 4 and that might be a big if, but I still like Weeden for us and he would not require the 4th selection. Worst case scenario he cost us the 22nd selection. Best case the 67th. More probable would be the 37th selection.
The thing that bothers me the most about Tannehill is his extra hitch/hopping at the end of his drops. That needs to be corrected for timing sake and it was very apparent on his pro day I think.
I absolutely cannot see us taking Tannehill. Heckert said that he wanted guys who can contribute from day 1 at the top of the draft, and that's not Tannehill in any manner imaginable.
Quote: Thing is the more they pick at Tannehill the more the experts fall in love with the guy and at the same time half of the big six are losing their luster.
I believe that it's the fever of draft-time, and that during draft-time, players who play elite positions see their negatives overshadowed by their upside.
The knocks on Tannehill had nothing to do with his measurables. The months leading up to the draft sway the evaluations from game-day results to measurables and upside.
We need look no further to the two dudes taken in the 1st round last year that had absolutely no business being taken in the first round in Gabbert and Ponder.
Teams without a QB are left looking over the scraps because Luck and Griffin will be long gone. After Tannehill, who is left in this draft that stands even an outside chance of becoming a starter? The consensus #4 is Weeden, and he's gonna be 29.
I'm also going to say I've read more than one report that flat-out says he's not a top-10 talent but will go there because he's a QB. That doesn't speak to his chances. That speaks to the level of reaching teams will do because he's a QB. I'm not good with that at #4.
If McCoy had a quick release and better arm strength than scouts acknowledged then they coached it out of him. The ability to get a pass quickly out to a receiver has been lacking.
Quote: Thing is the more they pick at Tannehill the more the experts fall in love with the guy and at the same time half of the big six are losing their luster.
I believe that it's the fever of draft-time, and that during draft-time, players who play elite positions see their negatives overshadowed by their upside.
The knocks on Tannehill had nothing to do with his measurables. The months leading up to the draft sway the evaluations from game-day results to measurables and upside.
We need look no further to the two dudes taken in the 1st round last year that had absolutely no business being taken in the first round in Gabbert and Ponder.
Teams without a QB are left looking over the scraps because Luck and Griffin will be long gone. After Tannehill, who is left in this draft that stands even an outside chance of becoming a starter? The consensus #4 is Weeden, and he's gonna be 29.
I'm also going to say I've read more than one report that flat-out says he's not a top-10 talent but will go there because he's a QB. That doesn't speak to his chances. That speaks to the level of reaching teams will do because he's a QB. I'm not good with that at #4.
Agree 100%. Tannehill will go in the Top 10 due to the media and the need of a franchise QB. He went from a mid-season projected second day pick to a Top 10 pick in a couple months. He may have had a good pro day but I just don't see a guy who is going to come in and start immediately.
If I'm a GM I'm making my basis off of tape and the combine.
1) The combine means more to me than a pro day b/c it shows you have some heart and aren't afraid to compete for your future career. Not to mention you get to see how he throws to guys he is unfamiliar with.
2) The game tape is all i need. If you are that interested in a QB, chances are you should have seen him play at a game live at some point during their last year. If not the GM, then one of the scouts for sure.
If we draft Tannehill, I sure don't want him playing in the 2nd half of games. He showed up in a couple of games but the tendency is the aggies couldn't score worth a crap in the 2nd half. They were ranked as low as #8 and by the 10th week they were out of the top 25.
The entire team collapsed in the 2nd half this year. They would try to go conservative then the defense would give up a couple big plays and let the opposition back in it. Receivers would start dropping everything and you could feel Sherman's frustration.
Then Tannehill would start pressing to come up with the great play and forcing some stuff he shouldnt have tried. As bad as those circumstances were, they are great experience and something he can look back upon and say, what could i have done differently.
year 3 is when QBs should emerge, he just didnt have that year 3. private workout will be huge for him.
Quote: The entire team collapsed in the 2nd half this year. They would try to go conservative then the defense would give up a couple big plays and let the opposition back in it. Receivers would start dropping everything and you could feel Sherman's frustration.
Then Tannehill would start pressing to come up with the great play and forcing some stuff he shouldnt have tried. As bad as those circumstances were, they are great experience and something he can look back upon and say, what could i have done differently.
year 3 is when QBs should emerge, he just didnt have that year 3. private workout will be huge for him.
Sound's like a description of the Browns season and McCoy..Year 3 should be the year Mourg.
Tannehill can only hurt his stock with private workouts, not improve them. The "why" of this is because the things that are question marks aren't about the things he can do in private workouts. They are the things he does on the field when the pads are on and there are 11-guys facing him.
He can absolutely confirm the positives, but there's no way to address his specific negatives. Only the game-tape and gut-feelings can do that.
Posted by Mike Florio on April 1, 2012, 1:05 PM EDT
Getty Images After former Texas A&M quarterback Ryan Tannehill worked out in College Station on Thursday, Mike Mayock of NFL Network proclaimed that “Cleveland has to take [Tannehill] at No. 4.” If the Browns don’t take him with the fourth pick, the Dolphins (whose offensive coordinator is former A&M coach Mike Sherman) would likely gobble Tannehill up at No. 8.
And if Tannehill somehow slips through the cracks to No. 12, the Seahawks apparently will be interested, given the presence of coach Pete Carroll, G.M. John Schneider, and offensive coordinator Darrell Bevell at the Pro Day session.
With three teams possibly clamoring for Tannehill, the team that holds the third pick in the draft may finally have a trade market. Whether it’s a flip-flop with the Browns or a five-spot discount with the Dolphins or a nine-position plummet with the Seahawks, three different teams could make a run at the clear shot at Tannehill.
At a bare minimum, the Vikings should squeeze the Browns into a one-spot swap, like the Vikings did with the Dolphins back in 2004, when Vikings G.M. Rick Spielman was coincidentally the G.M. in Miami. Then, the Vikings could still pick tackle Matt Kalil and finagle an extra pick (maybe a third-rounder) from the Browns.
To make that happen, Spielman will have to entice his former team into making an offer to move up from No. 8. Unless the Browns fear a jump by Miami or Seattle, the Browns will be inclined to call Minnesota’s bluff and sit tight.
If anyone ever posted or states that the Browns should trade up to 3 for Tannehill, I believe their immediate expulsion from this board and psychiatric help should be mandated. If Any talking head suggests it... I say they are no longer a viable source of anything. The thought of that makes my stomach churn. It's not that I don't like Tannehill it's that it is just insane.
Quote: If anyone ever posted or states that the Browns should trade up to 3 for Tannehill, I believe their immediate expulsion from this board and psychiatric help should be mandated. If Any talking head suggests it... I say they are no longer a viable source of anything. The thought of that makes my stomach churn. It's not that I don't like Tannehill it's that it is just insane.
To which I say, AMEN. You don't trade up for a non-day 1 starter who has upside but is known for questionable game day decisions.
Quote: Everyone is entitled to their opinion, LOYAL... even those who thought Burfict was a first-round lock.
It was a joke Steve..the difference is last year Burfict was a top 10 pick that slid due to a sub par Junior year. His play dropping off is up for argument, his attitude and Character concerns has clearly been confirmed. Tannehill is purely being projected on upside in my opinion..but nice shot.
Quote: If anyone ever posted or states that the Browns should trade up to 3 for Tannehill, I believe their immediate expulsion from this board and psychiatric help should be mandated. If Any talking head suggests it... I say they are no longer a viable source of anything. The thought of that makes my stomach churn. It's not that I don't like Tannehill it's that it is just insane.
To which I say, AMEN. You don't trade up for a non-day 1 starter who has upside but is known for questionable game day decisions.
I have said this before, but I'll say it again here ......
I think that there are 3 things you do not pass on in the draft, unless you already have one.
1) Franchise QB 2) Pure Shutdown Corner. 3) Franchise Left Tackle.
I think that there are 2 franchise QBs, and 1 franchise LT available in this draft. Everyone else is just a half step or more behind that level. The Vikings would be fools to trade down, barring another trade offer like the Rams received.
This is a list of the 3rd quarterbacks taken in their drafts since the Browns return. I found 2 Pro Bowlers (Roethlisburger and Cutler) in the last 13 drafts. Twice, the 3rd QB taken was the best of the three. Cutler was better than Vince Young and Matt Leinhart. Kolb is better than Brady Quinn and J. Russell. The 2004 draft with Roethlisburger produced 3 franchise QBs with P. Rivers and E. Manning.
1999 Akili Smith 2000 Chris Redman 2001 Quincy Carter 2002 Patrick Ramsey 2003 Kyle Boller 2004 Ben Roethlisburger 2005 Jason Campbell 2006 Jay Cutler 2007 Kevin Kolb 2008 Brian Brohm 2009 Josh Freeman 2010 Jimmy Clausen 2011 Blaine Gabbert 2012 Ryan Tannehill
I'm ok with rolling the dice on Tannehill, even at 4 IF and that is a big IF the Browns love him. I don't want to pick him just because we need a QB. We will be doing this again in 3 years if he doesn't work out.
Quote: I'm ok with rolling the dice on Tannehill, even at 4 IF and that is a big IF the Browns love him. I don't want to pick him just because we need a QB. We will be doing this again in 3 years if he doesn't work out.
Me too...but think about it for a minute...why would the Browns offer 3 1st rounders for RG3 if they think they can get another franchise QB in Tannehill at 4?
They've said all along now that they lost out on RGIII they're going to try to "improve the talent around the QBs already on the roster... use those picks on starters."
Quote: I'm ok with rolling the dice on Tannehill, even at 4 IF and that is a big IF the Browns love him. I don't want to pick him just because we need a QB. We will be doing this again in 3 years if he doesn't work out.
Me too...but think about it for a minute...why would the Browns offer 3 1st rounders for RG3 if they think they can get another franchise QB in Tannehill at 4?
Ummm.....Ya know, Dj...that's a damned good question, and one I hadn't thought of...
Quote: I'm ok with rolling the dice on Tannehill, even at 4 IF and that is a big IF the Browns love him. I don't want to pick him just because we need a QB. We will be doing this again in 3 years if he doesn't work out.
Me too...but think about it for a minute...why would the Browns offer 3 1st rounders for RG3 if they think they can get another franchise QB in Tannehill at 4?
What if....STL and CLE staged this RG3 thing? The Rams and Browns fleeced the Redskins TOGETHER...the Browns want Tannehill over RG3, or like him as much and played along to get the maximum out of WAS...now STL gives back some of that haul of picks on draft day to select Claiborne or Blackmon at 4...with our "supposed" interest in RG3 and our trade down we signal no interest for Tannehill, so Dolphins stay still and think they'll get Tannehill at 8 easily....and then we take Tannehill at 6
Deep Conspiracy: we don't want either RG or Tannehill but force the Dolphins to trade up to 3 with our scening, freeing up Kalil at 4 for the Rams, who give us back some of the WAS picks...we have 2 of Blackmon, Richardson and Claiborne on the board when we pick at 6 and have some extra picks
And what if aliens really shot Kennedy from their invisible spaceship ..........
As cutthroat as the NFL is, if that were the case, the browns would have called the Redskins and tole them that they would trade 4 to the Skins for just a pair of 1s and a 2nd ....... and they can save that extra #1.
Quote: This is a list of the 3rd quarterbacks taken in their drafts since the Browns return. I found 2 Pro Bowlers (Roethlisburger and Cutler) in the last 13 drafts. Twice, the 3rd QB taken was the best of the three. Cutler was better than Vince Young and Matt Leinhart. Kolb is better than Brady Quinn and J. Russell. The 2004 draft with Roethlisburger produced 3 franchise QBs with P. Rivers and E. Manning.
1999 Akili Smith 2000 Chris Redman 2001 Quincy Carter 2002 Patrick Ramsey 2003 Kyle Boller 2004 Ben Roethlisburger 2005 Jason Campbell 2006 Jay Cutler 2007 Kevin Kolb 2008 Brian Brohm 2009 Josh Freeman 2010 Jimmy Clausen 2011 Blaine Gabbert 2012 Ryan Tannehill
I'm ok with rolling the dice on Tannehill, even at 4 IF and that is a big IF the Browns love him. I don't want to pick him just because we need a QB. We will be doing this again in 3 years if he doesn't work out.
If Tannehill gets picked at 4 it's because he is the next available QB and not picked on his actual performance this past year or combine (or lack thereof). Tannehil is a bad move on any team who takes him in the first round to start immediately. Write it down or chisel it in stone. I wouldn't touch him with the lack of protection or weapons on this team.
There is only way to continue to right this ship and turn this team around. Fix the protection and get the weapons this year then draft the QB next year if Colt falters.
It's a foregone conclusion that Andrew Luck and Robert Griffin III will be the first two quarterbacks to come off the board on draft day following their spectacular pro-day performances a week ago. The workouts confirmed scouts' opinions on each prospect and secured their spots with the Indianapolis Colts and Washington Redskins.
However, there are other teams near the top of the board still in need of a franchise quarterback, which has sent the stock of Texas A&M QB Ryan Tannehill soaring across the league. The consensus third-rated quarterback has been pegged as a potential fit in Cleveland and Miami, but questions persist about whether he is truly a top-10 talent.
While some view Tannehill as an athletic quarterback in the mold of Tony Romo, others see an unpolished passer with a game that is not quite ready for primetime. After taking some time to study his game tape in advance of his highly anticipated pro day Thursday in College Station, here are the three questions I believe evaluators must resolve before pulling the trigger on Tannehill as a top-10 pick:
1. Is Tannehill an elite talent?
Scouts are taught to look for special qualities in every prospect that will help them become successful at the next level. These traits are often dubbed "blue qualities," and top-10 picks typically possess two or three elite characteristics. Andrew Luck (accuracy, pocket presence and awareness, football IQ) and Robert Griffin III (athleticism, arm strength, leadership ability) have these blue qualities. Tannehill, in my opinion, only has one.
Tannehill certainly is a blue-chip athlete. He was one of the Aggies' top receiving threats during his first two seasons in College Station, and those skills are on display when he has the ball in his hands. He is nimble and elusive in the pocket and also shows above average speed in the open field. His ability to operate as a dual-threat playmaker on the edge makes him an outstanding fit in movement-based passing games. Reuter: QB musical chairs The offseason has been a big game of QB musical chairs. Who's still standing? Chad Reuter eyes draft quarterbacks. More ...
When breaking down other key components of Tannehill's game, I would rank his arm strength near elite level, but not quite there. And his accuracy and touch, particularly on deep throws, only receive above-average marks. While some of those traits can be improved through diligent training and repetition, Tannehill doesn't necessarily possess a skill set that will allow him to become a dominant player immediately.
Now, that doesn't mean that Tannehill can't become an effective starter early in his career (Matt Ryan has had success in Atlanta without having elite arm strength or athleticism), but he must be exceptional in other areas and have the right supporting cast to thrive. Given those unique circumstances, it is hard to view Tannehill as a top-10 talent at first glance.
2. Will his limited game experience prevent him from becoming an instant success as a pro?
Studies have shown that a young quarterback's success can be tied to his game experience as a collegian. In fact, Bill Parcells reportedly used a formula that required a quarterback prospect to have three-plus years of starting experience, 23-plus wins and a college degree to garner serious consideration. Others have employed similar formulas with 30-plus collegiate starts as a baseline. The common denominator in all of these philosophies is to acquire quarterbacks who enter the league prepared mentally and physically from extensive game experience.
Tannehill, however, falls short on those benchmarks, and thus, evaluators could question his readiness for the pro game. He enters the league with only 20 career starts, compiling a 13-7 record in those games. Although the record is not disappointing, the tale of the tape suggests he still needs to work on the finer aspects of the position. From developing a better sense of how to orchestrate the game at the line of scrimmage to showing improved awareness of defensive fronts and coverage, Tannehill needs more training and repetitions. Davis: Mock Draft 3.0 With the first three picks presumably set, Charles Davis says the Browns can really shape next month's NFL draft. More ...
While some would counter by referencing the immediate impact of Cam Newton as a rookie starter despite his limited collegiate résumé, I would point out that Mark Sanchez and Alex Smith also had similar collegiate starting experience to Tannehill.
That's why scouts must carefully scrutinize Tannehill's workout at his pro day to assess where he is in his development and how quickly he can grasp the complexities of the pro game. He must demonstrate sound mechanics from a footwork standpoint, while also displaying arm strength, accuracy and touch. If he can put on spectacular showing to complement the occasional flashes of brilliance that show up on game tape, a team might be convinced to ignore the limited résumé and gamble on Tannehill's upside and potential.
3. Does he possesses the "it" factor to take his team to another level?
When evaluating top talent, scouts want to see how players perform in big games. The idea is to see how well a prospect fares against pro-caliber talent in a pressurized environment that mirrors the weekly battles in the NFL.
In studying Tannehill's senior season, it is apparent that he struggled in the Aggies' biggest games. In a five-game breakdown against the top-tier teams on his schedule (Oklahoma State, Arkansas, Oklahoma, Kansas State and Texas), Tannehill only completed 54.7 percent of his passes with nine touchdowns and 11 interceptions. More importantly, his team lost all five games. Tannehill didn't make enough plays from the pocket to help his team take those competitive battles. Whether it was a critical interception or a poor throw on a pivotal third down, Tannehill appeared to come up short when it mattered most. Casserly: Mock Draft 3.0 How will notable free-agency acquisitions affect April's NFL draft? Charley Casserly projects the first round. More ...
Given those failures, scouts should strongly consider whether Tannehill has the "it" factor needed to be a franchise quarterback. Although this remains an unquantifiable trait, the ability to lead a team to victory despite difficult circumstances separates the elite from the also-rans at the position.
Without a signature win or a memorable moment to indicate Tannehill has the goods to be a clutch performer with the game on the line, I have a hard time considering Tannehill to be a top-10 talent. The Browns or Dolphins might eventually disagree with my opinion, but it is difficult to find a game tape that rebuffs that assessment.
There is only way to continue to right this ship and turn this team around. Fix the protection and get the weapons this year then draft the QB next year if Colt falters.
Why not do all the above? #4 Tannehill #22 Wright, Hill, Jeffery #37 Martin, Wilson, Miller #68 Bobbie Massie or Swartz might have to trade up but we have plenty of mid and late round picks to work with.
Tannehill has such a rare skill set, he is worth the risk.
Scouts are taught to look for special qualities in every prospect that will help them become successful at the next level. These traits are often dubbed "blue qualities," and top-10 picks typically possess two or three elite characteristics. Andrew Luck (accuracy, pocket presence and awareness, football IQ) and Robert Griffin III (athleticism, arm strength, leadership ability) have these blue qualities. Tannehill, in my opinion, only has one.
His accuracy is down because his receivers dropped way to many passes. We are talking Northcutt and Morgan type drops. He does need to refine his accuracy especially over the middle, but that looked like a timing issue more than anything else.
The guy has a great arm and can make any NFL throw.
No one is going to question his athleticism and he can throw accurately to either side rolling out.
Hell I dont know what he is looking for in pocket presence because, Tannehill's pocket presence is elite level. He moves very well inside the pocket and he trusts his OL and he is looking for a target downfield while he is moving.
Negatives 3/4 throwing motion and he dips his shoulder on occasion. Patting the ball before he throws is annoying. He takes some chances you wish he would not make but at that same time you want a QB that will take a shot. His accuracy and timing over the middle needs some work but he is great throwing to the edges. He needs work in reading defenses and that will only come with experience.
"Why would the Browns offer 3 1st rounders for RG3 if they think they can get another franchise QB in Tannehill at 4? "
Offering to pay thru the nose for a "sure thing" and then giving up less to get something most consider less than a sure thing makes perfect sense to me.
I'd offer a TON to have a date with certain women and slightly less for others but I would STILL be thrilled to land either one
Quote: Just thought I'd ping you and Mourg in this thread - what do you two think of Osweiler compared to Tannehil?
You didn't ask me -- but (as a slight Osweiler fan) -- I think that they have relatively similar strengths/weaknesses, although Osweiler is even more raw than Tannehill.
First thing to note is that the run two very different offenses. Tannehill runs a pro-style WCO. Osweiler runs something similar to a spread, with a lot of screen passes out to RBs/WRs in the flat, along with the occasional deep ball to keep defenses honest.
They both have good size and are athletic -- though Osweiler is huge for a QB, he plays a bit smaller (both in the positive that he has pretty good footwork and is not a Derek Anderson clone, but also the negative that he uses a 3/4 arm angle, so he doesn't use the height advantage as well as he could -- this is supposedly something he is working on over the offseason.) Tannehill, for his part, has a negative where he shot puts balls in the short routes, which he is also working on.
They both are above average athletes and can tuck and run for good yardage. Tannehill is a bit faster (4.6 vs. 4.8 40s), but Osweiler can run through arm tackles.
They both have plus arms, and throw an above average deep ball. I think Tannehill's strength is his great timing on the 10-15yd out routes, that's my favorite throw of his. Osweiler doesn't throw that much (due to scheme). Osweiler's best pass in my opinion is his deep ball on the outside. He does a really great job of putting the ball in a position where his receiver has the advantage (he almost always gets the ball to the correct shoulder - and he does a good job of throwing passes that the WR can go back and get).
I think Osweiler has better short accuracy - and you see a lot of these dump off passes. They aren't particularly hard passes, but they area always right in the breadbasket - and I'm surprised how good the timing is on these, given Osweiler's large frame (his athleticism shows in these quick, 1-step drop, turn and release passes). ASU likes to let the DE go completely free on these bootlegs to the outside - and Osweiler does a great job of beating them with the throw by a tenth of a second. Tannehill's short accuracy isn't bad, and would be better if he made some small mechanical fixes.
Tannehill has better pocket presence. One of my knocks on Osweiler is that he tends to drop his head under pressure. Every QB does this to some extent, and ASU offensive line was pretty terrible. Tannehill is a bit ahead of him in this regard, his footwork inside the pocket is supurb for where he should be at developmentally.
Tannehill also has better timing in the intermediate passing game. Osweiler is actually above average in this respect - but Tannehill is supurb. That being said, Osweiler has all the tools to develop a great intermediate passing game - his footwork is very good for his size, his delivery is extremely quick - he just hasn't been asked to do it as much.
The biggest negative I see for both Osweiler and Tannehill is the ability to move throw progressions at the NFL level. Tannehill was asked to do this more (in the WCO), and struggled. Osweiler also locks onto receivers. This caused the majority of interceptions for each player. It's the primary reason both prospects are seen as "developmental" - and could be corrected with good coaching.
Overall, I think both prospects have a really high upside, but need a year on the bench (or even two) to learn the NFL offense. I have a high 2nd round grade on Tannehill, and a high 3rd round grade on Osweiler.
I was just asking those two since it seems they had really been watching QB's closely. That was very in-depth and a thorough analysis thought so I really appreciate it, bud!
Quote: They both have good size and are athletic -- though Tannehill is huge for a QB, he plays a bit smaller (both in the positive that he has pretty good footwork and is not a Derek Anderson clone, but also the negative that he uses a 3/4 arm angle, so he doesn't use the height advantage as well as he could -- this is supposedly something he is working on over the offseason.) Tannehill, for his part, has a negative where he shot puts balls in the short routes, which he is also working on.
Do you mean Osweiler? Because this seems like a pretty accurate description of Osweiler to me. Because if you watch him, he definitely does not take advantage of his height, and it looks like he is shot putting the ball.
Quote: Negatives 3/4 throwing motion and he dips his shoulder on occasion. Patting the ball before he throws is annoying. He takes some chances you wish he would not make but at that same time you want a QB that will take a shot. His accuracy and timing over the middle needs some work but he is great throwing to the edges. He needs work in reading defenses and that will only come with experience.
Gotta talk about his experience and less-than-stellar results against real teams if you're gonna paint the big picture.
Quote: Just thought I'd ping you and Mourg in this thread - what do you two think of Osweiler compared to Tannehil?
You're catching me with my pants down regarding Osweiler....have seen very little of him playing and just have some film reports on him, but I've read a few tims what Lyo wrote, that he drops his head in the pocket when pressured...that's a big NO GO for me as it's one of the biggest reasons why I see no hope for Colt ...that's something you just can't learn, it's instinctual...you either keep the eyes downfield or get scared and go into fetal position...that's why I have a problem with lableing Colt as "tough"...pocket presence, feel etc should be no1 when scouting QBs...RG3's is elite, Luck is good, Tannehill is above AVG to good from what I saw, Weeden keeps his eyes downfield but is stiff moving around, but he senses pressure well, so he gets an AVG grade
It also should be noted that Osweiler has even less starts than Tannehill with just 15
Quote: This is a list of the 3rd quarterbacks taken in their drafts since the Browns return. I found 2 Pro Bowlers (Roethlisburger and Cutler) in the last 13 drafts. Twice, the 3rd QB taken was the best of the three. Cutler was better than Vince Young and Matt Leinhart. Kolb is better than Brady Quinn and J. Russell. The 2004 draft with Roethlisburger produced 3 franchise QBs with P. Rivers and E. Manning.
1999 Akili Smith 2000 Chris Redman 2001 Quincy Carter 2002 Patrick Ramsey 2003 Kyle Boller 2004 Ben Roethlisburger 2005 Jason Campbell 2006 Jay Cutler 2007 Kevin Kolb 2008 Brian Brohm 2009 Josh Freeman 2010 Jimmy Clausen 2011 Blaine Gabbert 2012 Ryan Tannehill
I'm ok with rolling the dice on Tannehill, even at 4 IF and that is a big IF the Browns love him. I don't want to pick him just because we need a QB. We will be doing this again in 3 years if he doesn't work out.
Nice job with the list. When you really think about it - the only time the Browns ever aced the 1st round of the NFL draft with the QB position was with former Northwestern RB Otto Graham.
Bernie Kosar was actually a supplemental pick where that type of system put him on our doorstep asking do you want him? Heck yaaa!
I don't think Couch, Quinn or Phipps ever got the consensus in their corner whether it was fair or not.
As fans, we count on the front office to be competant with the QB position. In 99, we got to choose between Couch and McNabb as well as in the expansion draft between Kurt Warner and Scott Milanovich (who had gambling issues in college).
A year or two later, we had a late round option of Spergon Wynn or Tom Brady.
Not for nothing, but didn't we have a chance to Aaron Rodgers instead of Braylon Edwards? How much study do you think went into Aaron Rodgers at the time? I realize a lot of teams whiffed or didn't forsee his true value. Having said that, if QB is as important as it has become - the guy at the top has to have a better understanding of who a guy like that is or projects to be.
Another year we traded up to snag KWII; and the kid landed on injured reserve in 2 of his first 3 years. Pittsburgh drafted Roethlisberger in the 11th slot of that same draft.
It's not always the QB choices we've made that messed up our compass. It's also been the ones we've never made that keep us contemplating "what if?"
Today I have a difficult time sifting through the supply and demands of first round QBs. I feel like we're seeing more 2nd and 3rd round prospects sneaking up into slots they don't belong in. The expectations tend to change accordingly. The problem is a JP Losman wasn't ever a first round QB so what followed was never going to be fair. This is what worries me about reaching on a QB at #4 overall if there are plenty of better players available. On the other hand, I pointed out someone needed to know what Aaron Rodgers projected. I think the difference with Rodgers was he led a less talented Cal team over a much more talented USC team so there was evidence he could elevate everyone's game above an opponent they weren't supposed to beat. I didn't see this from Tannehill. The good news there if you like Tannehill is my calling in life isn't to peg first round QBs. In fact, I'm terrible at it.
Gotta talk about his experience and less-than-stellar results against real teams if you're gonna paint the big picture. The questions...are between his ears...
Absolutely, they get answered with more experience.
The flaws in tannehill's game can be fixed with coaching and experience. You can't teach his physical skill set and when you throw in the fact he is highly intelligent and tremendously competitive, the recipe for success is there.
Tannehill with a year of studying and learning at the pro level vs Barkley and Jones with another year under their belts at the college level. I guess we can bring in another washed up vet to make the masses all giddy until game 7.
I have Osweiller as a 3rd rounder with Weeden and Cousins. He is really, really raw. He is however a big guy with a quirky motion that will push the ball and doesnt take advantage of his height. He has better than expected mobility, actually pretty good mobility for a kid his size.
Tannehill to osweiller is really a one sided comparison. Osweiller is a 3 or 4 year down the road grooming project. Tannehill has a better arm, mobility, accuracy, decision making, anticipation, pocket presence. It is really really one sided at this point in his career.
Quote: Bernie Kosar was actually a supplemental pick where that type of system put him on our doorstep asking do you want him? Heck yaaa!
Yes, he was from the supplemental draft, but he wasn't just placed on our doorstep. The Browns traded their 1st round picks in both 1985 and 1986 plus a 3rd in '85 and a 6th in '86 to get him. He was hardly dropped on our doorstep.
Not much of a comparison between the two guys. While I put Tannehill in the 2nd tier of QB's in this draft, he's the last of the guys who figure to have a solid shot of being a 10-year starter. All the rest are projects/long-shots/backups.
all over you.. But because, if he proves you wrong, the team will be improved and the team wouldn't have to spend a ton of picks or money to grab someone else that may or may not work out
x 12
I don't know what I'm talking about.
If the Browns don’t take him with the fourth pick, the Dolphins (whose offensive coordinator is former A&M coach Mike Sherman) would likely gobble Tannehill up at No. 8.