I don't have time to confirm this but didn't Texas A&M have leads in the 4th Quarter in every game this year? I thought I read that somewhere. And if so isn't that what you're asking your QB to give you?
I know I would be ok with 4th Quarter leads in every game. And if we lost I might be asking the defense a question or two.
I'm not sure the answer to that specific question, but they were down going into the 4th quarter in 3 games (all 3 were losses).
Oklahoma State 24-20 Oklahoma 41-10 Texas 24-16
As I was looking that up, I saw that TA&M played 6 ranked teams this past season and in those games, Tannehill had 15 TDs and 12 INT. Remove Baylor, and he had 9 TDs and 11 INT. That's a little concerning. That being said, in the other games against non-ranked opponents, he had 14 TDs and 3 INT.
Quote: I don't have time to confirm this but didn't Texas A&M have leads in the 4th Quarter in every game this year? I thought I read that somewhere. And if so isn't that what you're asking your QB to give you?
I know I would be ok with 4th Quarter leads in every game. And if we lost I might be asking the defense a question or two.
Just providing some perspective.
since I did the breakdown for the OkieState game, take a look at what happened to him when the WR fumbled the ball. he looked good until that point, then pressed/choked/whatever-you-want-to-call-it the rest of the way.
A&M did not have a good defense but Tannehill didn't do them any favors down the stretch either.
I didn't follow A&M during the year so I got caught up in the group think that Tannehill would be a second rounder. Then I took a look and found some elite throws on film which project a guy with that skill set as a top end QB prospect.
That is all.
I just hope that if he is taken at 4 by us that the fanbase will accept that and that he has the opportunity to sit at least till the bye week.
If we draft him I don't want him fed to the top 5 defenses that reside in our division just yet. And that went the same for RG3.
Version 1 of Tannehill was the college wide receiver, version 2 was the college quarterback, version 3 is an NFL quarterback that throws himself passes?
LOL.. ok, so I'll add to the posts and maybe by draft day ( just in case ) we will be up to v4 or even 5. Maybe his hands will grow 3/8" by v5 so TOAD won't think we are drafting a QB that throws like Yepremian.
It's going to suck when they have to buy them all over again..I guess it will be worth it if he ends up having a breakout year and we are winning games with him under center. That's all as fans that we can ask for after all.
Posted by Mike Florio on April 2, 2012, 8:00 AM EDT
With quarterbacks Andrew Luck and Robert Griffin III already spoken for (barring an incredibly unlikely and unforeseen development), the top remaining quarterback on the board is Ryan Tannehill.
With the Browns (at No. 4) and the Dolphins (at No. 8) and the Seahawks (at No. 12) all apparently very interested in the converted receover whom Greg Cosell believes is more accurate on the run than Luck or Griffin, Peter King of SI.com points out in his brand-new MMQB column that the Eagles and Chiefs will each put Tannehill through a private workout.
Both already appeared on our visits and workouts tracker, but the dates hadn’t been set. Per King, the Eagles will check out Tannehill on Monday, and he’ll work out for the Chiefs later in the week.
So what does it mean? Based on history, it’s hard to say. This is the time for smokescreens and misdirections, with teams talking up players they don’t like (in the hopes someone higher in the order will take them) and saying bad things about players they hope will slip down the board.
But both the Chiefs (at No. 11) and the Eagles (at No. 15) were interested in Peyton Manning, Kansas City admittedly and Philly reportedly. And so each team has to at least be contemplating the possibility of making a move up to land a new quarterback.
The question is how high will they need to go? With the Browns believed to be interested at No. 4, the safest strategy would be to move to No. 3, which would duplicate the 1-2-3 quarterback class of 1999, when Tim Couch, Donovan McNabb, and Akili Smith came off the board in back-to-back-to-back fashion.
Of that class from thirteen years ago, only one of those three quarterbacks ever turned out to be anything. (Some would say none out of those three.) This year, the Colts, Redskins, and a team to be determined will be counting on a much higher success rate.
I think if he is taken by us (whenever he is taken) that our FO and coaches are strong enough to ignore the fans and play him when they feel he is ready (barring injuries like what happend to Colt his rookie year).
Quote: In the end, the answer could have less to do with Tannehill and how the Browns feel about some of the second-tier quarterbacks on the board. Cleveland also picks 22nd overall, and at that point will likely have its choice from a group that includes Oklahoma State's Brandon Weeden, Michigan State's Kirk Cousins and Arizona's Nick Foles, all of whom belong in the top 40 picks.
Really? - I think if Miami trades up for Tannehill before draft day, the media will start talking about Brandon Weeden at #4, it's getting ridiculous.
There is no QB worthy of 2nd round consideration past the big 3. I might actually go root for Buffalo if we were to waste the 22nd pick on one of those bums. Hell I already like Fitzpatrick, Johnson and Super Mario lol.
Absolutely, in 5 years, Tannehill has a very good chance to be a top 10 QB in this league. 5 years from now, Cousins will be a backup, Osweiller will be coaching highschool ball and Weeden will be filing for social security.
best pass defenses he faced last year were OkieState, Arkansas, Oklahoma, K-State, and Texas
in those games (all losses):
59% 2TD 3 INT 71% 0TD 1 INT 50% 2TD 3 INT 59% 3TD 1 INT 41% 2TD 3 INT
*All of those above numbers with one of the best running games in the country
More pressing was how he handled things when something bad happened on the field. Against Ok-State a WR fumbled a ball early in the 2nd half that led to the Cowboys coming back (they had already scored once that half). After that fumble, Tannehill looked terrible and made terrible decisions. This was not the only game he fell apart on the year either.
He has 1st round "tools" but he does not have 1st round "makeup" Especially in this city, we need both. I'd rather roll with a mid-round QB and use the prime draft picks to fix other areas of the team (because I don't think QB gets fixed with Tannehill).
Quote: Absolutely, in 5 years, Tannehill has a very good chance to be a top 10 QB in this league. 5 years from now, Cousins will be a backup, Osweiller will be coaching highschool ball and Weeden will be filing for social security.
I hope we can all check this five years from now...
The comparison between Tannehill and Anderson is worrisome to me, given that Anderson's accuracy and inability to handle pressure in his face was his downfall.
if I had to put a percentage on Tannehill being a star, I would put it about 20-25%. I see a lot of holes in his game, which have been outlined, and I don't think that those are the odds to take at #4.
Man he worries me .... especially if he goes to Cleveland where he can't sit for a couple of years. I don't see him ever becoming a top QB ...... but if he winds up in Cleveland then I really don't see him becoming anything at all. I want no part of him.
his ceiling is a guy like Romo (that you mentioned). but, his floor is a guy like Tavaris that Toad mentioned (well, technically it could be lower, but I'm willing to give him this one). there's alot of wiggle room in between.
And before you chuckle, if you're being realistic, here's a scouting report with Jackson's name taken out and Tannehill's inserted. It sure looks like a real possibility in the future:
Quote: Comment: [tannehill] has good size and a strong arm with enough athleticism to move the chains with his legs. He continues to be raw and show his lack of accuracy. His footwork has improved. He can improvise and make plays. [tannehill] has the tools to continue to develop but at some point the [team] need's to make a decision whether he is their quarterback for the future.
That's Scouts Inc.
Both guys ran in the 4'6's. Both guys make plays with their legs. Both guys throw from 3/4's. Both guys have strong arms. Both guys came to the NFL very raw. Both guys have iffy footwork and mechanics. Both guys started their final college season's as developmental prospects. Jackson went from a 6th round guy to a guy taken in the 2nd round based on upside. Tannehill has gone from a 2nd or 3rd round guy to the top of the 1st round based on upside.
Here's another scouting report about jackson from 2006. Sure looks like a photo copy of Tannehill's:
Quote: BIO: Second-team All-Conference selection who totaled 60.9%/2,941/29/5 as a senior.
POSITIVES: Athletic passer who took his game to another level last year. Displays improved field sense, has a strong arm and drives the ball into targets. Puts air under corner patterns and lets receivers run to the ball. Does not force passes into coverage and displays toughness running with the ball. Escapes the rush and loses nothing throwing on the move.
NEGATIVES: Erratic with his accuracy and usually high off the mark or behind receivers. Shaky under pressure, rarely sets his feet and takes off out of the pocket too quickly.
Well, if we want an underdeveloped Tavaris Jackson, why don't we just trade for Tavaris Jackson? I would think that the Seahags would move him for a 5th or 6th round pick .... and we have a bunch of those. Since the Hags signed Flynn, they should be willing to move Jackson.
Quote: I don't have time to confirm this but didn't Texas A&M have leads in the 4th Quarter in every game this year? I thought I read that somewhere. And if so isn't that what you're asking your QB to give you?
I know I would be ok with 4th Quarter leads in every game. And if we lost I might be asking the defense a question or two.
Just providing some perspective.
It's good stuff to talk about. Thanks for sharing that. This is just my goofy take. I worry about the QB prospects that climb way up the draft projection boards at the last minute. These are the defenses that Tannehill was treated to (and where they stood up against 120 other Div IA Defenses):
This doesn't always work but it's something I have fun with. I like to see what a QB does with a margin of error he's provided with especially since Cleveland is rarely favored on game day. Oklahoma State's Brandon Weeden actually had the 107th ranked defense to carry on game day. That means if he got sloppy - they lose very easily. His team won the Big 12 and their BCS Bowl Game. When he beat Stanford, they had to erase deficits and keep up with the scoring pace of Andrew Luck's offense on his 107th ranked defense.
I know the age concerns but Kurt Warner played another 11 seasons after he was 28 in 1999. Warren Moon didn't get NFL snaps until mid-late 20s like Joe Theisman and Jeff Garcia. You could also say Steve Young didn't play for a real NFL team until he was 28. Cleveland has the same type of play makers Young got sentenced to in Tampa. If we don't change this - lesser talents than Steve Young can show up here and stink it up.
When I was watching the NFL Channel's Path to the Draft and Total Access that week talking about Tannehill, here were a few comments their staff made from their research that jumped out at me:
1. Doesn't locate the Safety well. We're in a division with 2 of the best Safeties in the league. 2. Lost 4 second half leads (defense might have collapsed but this is where a legend is made at QB as we once saw in both our versions of the Kardiac Kids). Had a higher ranked D than Weeden. 3. Had two different 3 INT performances in a conference that doesn't play a lick of defense. 4. "He shouldn't play at all in 2012..."
There's some red flags here. Why did Tannehill need excuses when Weeden didn't? Struggling to score on Big 12 Defenses in the second halves of football games won't get easier in the AFC North especially counting on the WR Corps that dropped the most passes in the NFL last year.
We can either trade back to add picks and get Weeden later than #4 or take him at #22. Here's how he stacked up nationally and vrs other Big 12 QB prospects the last 2 years:
2011 Passer Rating Leaders 2. Robert Griffin III 189.5 (Russell Wilson was #1 with 191.8) 8. Brandon Weeden, Oklahoma State 159.8 34. Landry Jones, Oklahoma 141.6 39. James Franklin, Missouri 139.9 Outside the top 40: Ryan Tannehill, Texas A&M 133.2
2011 Total Passing Yardage Leaders 2. Brandon Weeden, Oklahoma State (Case Keenum was #1) 3. Landry Jones, Oklahoma 6. Robert Griffin III, Baylor 8. Seth Doege, Texas Tech 12. Ryan Tannehill, Texas A&M
2010 Passing Efficiency 16. Brandon Weeden, Oklahoma State 24. Landry Jones, Oklahoma 29. Robert Griffin III, Baylor 30. Carson Coffman, Kansas State 37. Taylor Martinez, Nebraska
2010 Passing Yardage Leaders 2. Landry Jones, Oklahoma 3. Brandon Weeden, Oklahoma State 9. Taylor Potts, Texas Tech 13. Robert Griffin III, Baylor 21. Blaine Gabbert, Missouri 45. Garrett Gilbert, Texas
That's all useful, analytical info which can be filtered down to reflect one singular point: Drafting Tannehill at #4 is taking a player who isn't in the same tier as the first two QB's at nearly the same position. That's the definition of a reach.
Taking Luck or Griffin is based on known tools and production. Taking Tannehill is based on tools only.
That's a helluva gamble, and one I don't believe we can afford to make with a pick where you absolutely must hit a home-run.
Hel, I would do it but I live close to Aggie-land and know it wouldn't take long before one of these pig-rapists popped off and I ended up getting banned so, sorry.
Hel, I would do it but I live close to Aggie-land and know it wouldn't take long before one of these pig-rapists popped off and I ended up getting banned so, sorry
I think this may mean I've been reading too much draft stuff but when I read this I immediately thought, "Mmmm....some bacon would taste good right now".
One thing that has gone unsaid is that players and coaches have asserted that it takes two or three years for QBs in the WCO to "get it" and play on autopilot.
The structure in the system is such that the QB is thinking more than playing.
And there was a terrific article on Aaron Rodgers where he says just that...
Now Colt McCoy has played one year in the WCO.
Ryan Tannehill has played two years.
I think drafting a QB like Weeden makes no sense. He's two years younger than Methusalah and by the time he feels comfortable in the WCO he'll be in a walker.
Drafting another young pup with no WCO experience is pressing the pause button on that position.
It's Polian, not Analyst X, pushing Tannehill for Cleveland now
By Steve Doerschuk
It’s one thing to hear it from Mike Mayock. It’s another to hear it from Todd McShay. When Bill Polian says it, it’s time to take it seriously.
Polian, one of the few NFL personnel men mentioned as a Hall of Fame candidate, says Tannehill is a serious contender to be the Browns’ long-awaited answer at quarterback.
Vic Carucci of Cleveland Browns Daily drew out Polian on the subject.
We don’t know whether Polian was doing a favor to the Browns by amplifying any actual interest they may have in drafting Tannehill at No. 4.
We do know that Polian got the attention of the Dolphins and perhaps others as he talked about the viability of Tannehill in Cleveland. Polian, architect of the Colts’ heady run through the 2000s, says Tannehill is “a unique talent” who “merits a high pick.”
“Tannehill merits the attention based upon talent and a very, very high upside,” Polian said. “He has not played as much quarterback as have Griffin and Luck, but he is immensely talented and he is a winner and he is a high-character guy and a very exceptionally smart guy, so he’s got all the characteristics. This is real.
“His pick is kind of a pivotal pick, and the Browns are now the team to watch. “The quarterback sweepstakes is on.”
• • • Polian was fired in January by the Colts, who will pick Andrew Luck at No. 1. Robert Griffin III goes next to the Rams. That leaves one team, Minnesota, in front of the Browns.
“People who are interested in Tannehill are going to look to come up there and perhaps even come up with Minnesota and try and get in front of the Browns ... or do business with the Browns,” Polian said. “There’s a lot of action right around that 3-4 spot. That’ll be where all the action is.”
Plenty of reports are being leaked as to who i visiting the Browns and other teams this week. These amuse Polian.
“Intelligence gathering is done more frequently than you think,” he said. “A player you have absolutely no interest in ... you bring him in to find out who’s interested in him, where he’s been, what people have asked him, etc., etc., etc., while at the same time creating a smokescreen for everyone else in the league.”
Polian laid out an imaginary scene based on reported visits:
“As these visits are chronicled ... somebody in Indy looks up and says, holy mackerel, Player X was just brought in to Cleveland. They’re not interested in (so and so) ... why are they bringing him in? If that’s the guy you’re interested in, you panic right away, and you might be interested in trading with them.”
• • •
Polian cited reasons the Browns’ seeming interest in Tannehill isn’t a smokescreen.
Asked by Carucci is Tannehill might need lots of seasoning, Polian said:
“That would be the conventional wisdom. He could prove you wrong, because he is immensely talented and very bright and very hard working. On the other hand, common sense probably tells you he won’t contribute right away. But what better situation than the Browns, where Colt McCoy is already there and an incumbent and can play and, if I’m not mistaken, has two or three years on his contract.
“You could make an investment in the long-term future, bring Ryan Tannehill in there, let him get his feet wet at his own pace. In the meantime, you have a really quality backup quarterback.
“That’s an entirely plausible situation, assuming of course that Mike (Holmgren) and Pat (Shurmur) and Tom (Heckert) really believe he’s the right guy. That’s a huge assumption. I wouldn’t stack my judgment on quarterbacks up against those guys. They’re terrific.”
At minimum, “Mike and Pat and Tom” should send Polian a thank-you card for driving up Tannehill’s trade value in whatever helpful way.
Or is it time to start getting fired up for seeing Tannehill slinging it against the Lake Erie wind?
It really is like every day things change, I get feelings one way then another, Not about who they should take or what they should do trade wise, but what they will do.
2 weeks ago, in spite of all my hopes, I thought for sure they'd take Justin Blackmon, then he comments he hopes he doesn't go to Cleveland. So sometime last week, probably if I had to bet on who they WILL take I'd have said Richarson, but then it's reported they're working out Michael Floyd and Heckerts talking about trading back to 6, ish, So today I could really see them taking Floyd even with Blackmon still on the board.
Bottom line is alot of me WANTS them to take Tannehill, even it some of that is simply because they're already two Qb's going and no real good ones will be available later, and that's not so much the case at Rb, and WR,.
So I'm kind of in denial mode, forcing myself to just accept Tannehill's not a possibility ( listening to comments from Mark Clayton saying since Holm, and Heckert, weren't at his pro-day but were at Richardsons, that they really aren't interested in RT) Forcing myself to think it's not gonna be Ryan, so I won't feel bad when he goes to another team.
And yes, preparing myself for Ryan Tannehill to light it up on the Dophins or somewhere else and hear how 3 stooges the Browns were Once Again. Duh!
With the list of RBs we have brought in, I am even more doubtful on Richardson. I dont believe we will take defense at 4 although with a trade down Claiborne gets interesting. Blackmon just didn't seem to be a likely pick from the start.
Months ago, I thought it was Tannehill and nothing has changed other than the fact I thought we would draft him at 22 instead of at 4. Everyone wants to draft the flawless QB right out of college but folks those only exist in fairy tales. We have a chance to get a supremely talented kid in here to mold into a franchise QB. I think you have to take that chance when you have that much upside and a high level of intelligence.
If the kid wasn't so damn smart, I might be inclined to think well he isn't worth the risk because he might never get it but his smarts is one of his greatest assets.
Miami Dolphins coach Joe Philbin asks fans to have ‘faith’ in team’s direction, and emphasizes WR and pass rusher as team needs by Ben Volin
Joe Philbin realizes that most Dolphins fans had never heard of him until the team interviewed him for its head coaching job in January. And he knows the team has a bit of a credibility issue in South Florida after suffering three straight losing seasons, and reaching the playoffs just once in the last decade.
Philbin reached out to the season-ticket base on Tuesday night in the first of several conference calls this offseason between the Dolphins’ leadership and their most loyal fans. And he pleaded with fans to trust him and his new coaching staff to turn the team around.
“Sometimes you have to have faith,” Philbin said. “There’s a little bit of the chicken and the egg here, but I’m asking you for your faith and your confidence in me that I’m going to be able to deliver the results that will make everybody in Miami proud of what this football team does on the field and off the field. And I’m very, very confident that we’re going to get this thing done, and we’re going to have a great time and have fun, and everybody’s going to be a part of it.”
Philbin may have also dropped a big hint as to the Dolphins’ philosophy for April’s NFL Draft. While many expect the Dolphins to draft Texas A&M quarterback Ryan Tannehill with the eighth overall pick, Philbin listed only two positions when asked about the Dolphins’ needs: Pass rusher and receiver. The Dolphins still need to find someone to replace the retired Jason Taylor and fill in for Brandon Marshall, who was traded last month.
“You can never have enough pass rushers,” Philbin said. “Probably 30 teams out of the 32 are talking about acquiring pass rushers and guys that can put pressure on the quarterback.”
He also added: “Certainly, receiver is an area we’re looking at hard.”
Other highlights from the 45-minute conference call between Philbin, CEO Mike Dee and season-ticket holders:
* Philbin reiterated that the quarterback competition between Matt Moore and David Garrard is truly open. The winner may be whoever picks up the new offense the quickest.
“Everybody’s going to start from square one,” Philbin said. “Part of the whole evaluation process is going to be how quickly those guys can separate themselves mentally, how quickly they can separate themselves physically, with their production on the field and their grasp of the offense. Because obviously a big part of the job of a quarterback is the decision-making, the leadership, and we’ll see how that picks up here quickly.”
* Like he did last week at the NFL owners meetings, Philbin stayed away from putting any expectations on his team. Because he and his staff haven’t met the players yet, he said “You’re never totally sure exactly what you have.”
“I can’t tell you that I can put a solid number on how many wins we’re going to have,” he said. “But from a philosophy standpoint, I’ve always felt like the teams that I’ve been a part of have had a chance to win every game we’ve played. I know that’s the way we’re going to approach it here.”
“It’s a disservice I think to the guys that you coach to sit around here on April 3 and say, ‘Jeez, we’re going to be a 7-9 team and that’s good enough. or 9-7. We kind of have a broader perspective at this point in time, but we’re excited about getting started, we’re optimistic. The key is how quickly we can forge this group into playing like a team.”
* Philbin said “we’ll tailor the scheme” to fit the players and “We’re not married to anything in particular,” and doesn’t envision a tough transition to the West Coast Offense. He will start teaching it to the players when the offseason program begins next Tuesday.
“There’s a lot of diversity – a good bit of ball distribution, various personnel groupings, formations, motions, etc, so there is a lot to digest,” he said. “But the good news for our players is it’s easy to teach and it’s easy to learn. I don’t think it’s going to be a big adjustment for the players.”
* Philbin, who didn’t call plays as offensive coordinator in Green Bay, reiterated that Mike Sherman will be the playcaller.
“He’s going to be in charge of the offense. He’s in charge of the staff,” Philbin said. But “this is not going be a one-man operation in any way shape or form on any side of the ball.”
Philbin, showcasing a dry wit several times throughout the call, also added, “I worked it out in his contract that I get to put in one play per week maybe. I don’t get to call it, but I get to put it in.”
* Speaking of Philbin’s dry sense of humor, he had a funny interaction with a caller named Diego.
Philbin: “You got any good plays for us?”
Diego: “Actually, I played Madden today.”
* The Dolphins are trying to better connect with the fans to sell season tickets, which are now hovering somewhere in the mid-30,000s, the lowest level since the pre-Dan Marino days of the early 1980s.
Tuesday’s conference call with the season-ticket holders was the first of many to be held this offseason. Philbin will participate in at least one more, as will owner Stephen Ross. The team also invites former season-ticket holders who haven’t renewed, with the goal of selling tickets during the call. And alumni Mark Duper and A.J. Duhe will also be hitting the community to help sell tickets.
* Philbin reiterated several times that his goal is to develop players on the roster instead of making big splashes in free agency. He is especially intrigued in some of the young receivers, including Clyde Gates, Roberto Wallace, Julius Pruitt and Marlon Moore.
* The Dolphins are considering several changes to Sun Life Stadium, which turns 25 this year, though nothing has been finalized. Prior to the phone call, a team source said the team is considering placing tarps over some of the upper deck seats in an attempt to reduce capacity. At the Super Bowl, Dee said he hopes to bring the seats closer to the field now that the Marlins have left.
And on Tuesday’s call, Dee said the team is looking to bring a “shade component” to the seating area of the stadium to protect fans from the intense heat and inclement weather.
“Have a plan to add a canopy, as well as a number of other improvements which we believe will keep the stadium viable for the next 25 years,” Dee said. “Providing shade is a big part of that plan.” _________________________________________ It may only be smoke but there has been a lovefest going on between Ireland and Michael Floyd. I think we will draft Tannehill but we will try to move down to the Rams or Jags to do so and add that 2nd round pick.
Quarterback talk: In his job as a CBS-TV college football analyst, former Browns quarterback Gary Danielson attends mostly Southeastern Conference games during a typical season. And since it was not exactly a banner year in the SEC for quarterbacks – remember those two dreadful Alabama-LSU games? – Danielson doesn’t have a strong conviction on the quarterback Class of 2012 in the draft.
Yet once a quarterback, always a quarterback.
“The way the league is structured now you cannot win without a franchise quarterback,” Danielson said, echoing the sentiments of just about everybody. “That thing gets stretched a little bit. What is a franchise quarterback? I don’t think you try to make one up. But if you believe in a guy, it doesn’t matter what you pay to get him. I don’t believe you can draft him too quickly or pay him too much.”
Which brings up Ryan Tannehill: The Texas A&M product is the best quarterback available to the Browns in the draft. If the Browns pass up Tannehill at No. 4, they will commit to Colt McCoy for another season. McCoy either will make them look good in 2012 or the Browns will be quarterback-shopping again in 2013.
And on and on it goes.
Tannehill is no finished product, of course, having started more games at wide receiver (30) at Texas A&M than at quarterback (19). But Danielson says flatly, “I think Tannehill is superior to the kid Cincinnati took last year, (Andy) Dalton.”
Dalton, a second-round pick in 2011, started all 16 games as a rookie, led the Bengals to a 9-7 record and a wild-card playoff berth. He made the Pro Bowl as an alternate.
“If you’d asked me prior to the draft, which college quarterback in the past 10 years most reminds me of Bernie Kosar, it’s Tannehill,” Danielson said. “It’s his toughness, he’s a little unorthodox, and he’s as competitive as I’ve ever seen.”
This is high praise from the man who personally tutored Kosar in 1985 and taught him the nuances of the NFL game. Danielson pushed Kosar to the hilt in that 1985 season, giving way to him during the season only because of a torn right rotator cuff.
My lasting image is of the two competing in fierce ping pong contests in the players’ lounge at the Dodgertown complex after hours as the Browns prepared in Vero Beach, Fla., for a playoff game against the Miami Dolphins. Epic matches between the two of them, kill shots impaling each other’s chest. Both refusing to lose.
“Tannehill, you have to commit to him,” Danielson said. “He doesn’t look like a natural, like he was born to be John Elway. I don’t care how pretty you throw it. At that position, if you’re not tough and competitive you have no chance. Now, you have to have other skills, and he does. But he’s definitely 10 for 10 in toughness and competitiveness.”
Danielson had no great physical skills as a pro quarterback, but he had the qualities he speaks of. I covered a game in which he overcame five interceptions and put the Lions in position to defeat Joe Montana and the San Francisco 49ers in an NFC playoff game. A missed field goal enabled the 49ers to win by a point.
“As quarterback, there are so many things that you control. You’re making so many mistakes – throw it earlier, or later, read this and that. You have to be tough enough to play that position,” Danielson said. “It’s an awesome responsibility. It’s a 10-month job and it requires special toughness. (Tannehill) definitely has that.
“Now, I don’t classify him as a pretty thrower. Usually a guy taken in the first or second round, you have no doubts when he releases the ball. Tannehill is still in training to be a quarterback. If the Browns were drafting, say, 11th, and he was there, everybody would be happy (to take him). But if you like the guy, you take him (at No. 4). You don’t try to jockey around and take him.”
You may detect that Danielson is not the biggest fan of Colt McCoy. He doesn’t think they win big with McCoy at the throttle.
“The Browns are in a terrible, terrible position,” Danielson said. “You passed on (receiver) Julio Jones last year. You’ve got to have a No. 1 receiver. Just have to. And No. 2, you didn’t get RG3 (Robert Griffin III). If by some chance Tannehill turns out to be a franchise quarterback and you didn’t take him, you’re all fired.”
Thanks for the read. I agree with the guy in that, I don't get the whole I would draft him at 8 but not at 4 stuff. If you believe that you have a chance to take a franchise QB then you take him where you can get him. End of story.
first, I missed the part where Tannehill has a strange delivery, uncanny accuracy, and led his talented team to a ton of wins. also, Colt may not be a very good NFL QB but he is tough and competitive. scrappy might be the first word I use when describing him.
so Tony Grossi is just going to spend the next few weeks talking about the 80s era Browns teams? (after his last article about Clay and Frank)
better than talking about the current rendition I suppose.
up next, how David Wilson reminds Grossi of a young Earnest Byner
What are your thoughts on the FO's evaluation of Tannehill?
The RG3 attempt took me by surprise...so I'm wondering where they have Tannehill slotted. Why give up so much if you are content with Tannehill (or prefer him) ? Did the attempt at RG3 make you wonder how the FO rated Tannehill Mourg?
You know we have scouted Tannehill probably harder than any team out there. We swarmed the Car Care Bowl to check him out. Then it was bam we have offered up 3 firsts to get RG3. It blew my mind.
When it was first reported, I didnt believe it. I could not believe a team that chose not to spend in free agency, with as many holes as we have on offense would spend all those picks on one player. It made no sense and still doesnt.
I didnt really question whether they liked Tannehill, I questioned their sanity lol.
If there was a run on offensive tackles, Nobody would be saying, " We can't take a the 10th best offensive tackle at 22 because he's not first round talent.
They'd be saying, We got to get the only offensive tackle left.
But when it is a quarterback, everyone wants to talk about value.
Do you honestly believe that if we are sitting at 22 that Heckert would take Donald Stephenson the 93rd rated player and the 10th ranked OT in the draft because we need one? Not a chance.
No but I honestly beleive that if glenn, Adams, Martin, Kalil, Sanders, Massie, and Mosley somehow happened to go in the top 20, the folks on this board would be clammoring for Schwartz with the 22 pick.
and it would be the right thing, because there will be little chance after to adress the hole.
Not much of a difference considering Schwartz is the 9th ranked tackle and 83rd ranked player. I don't think people would be clamoring for that and I know Heckert would never do something like that..I disagree entirely as it reeks of desperation and reaching for a need and is absolutely not the right thing to do. It would mean that there is a lot of good players at other positions because of the stupidity of other GMs.
Quote: “If you’d asked me prior to the draft, which college quarterback in the past 10 years most reminds me of Bernie Kosar, it’s Tannehill,” Danielson said. “It’s his toughness, he’s a little unorthodox, and he’s as competitive as I’ve ever seen.”
I wonder what rock Danielson has been hiding under, and who has been delivering the crack-cocaine to him.
Phillip Rivers? Nah, he isn't like Kosar at all. Afterall, Kosar was a converted wide receiver who has fast wheels and a strong arm...
Danielson couldn't be any more transparent with this one...
Quote: “If you’d asked me prior to the draft, which college quarterback in the past 10 years most reminds me of Bernie Kosar, it’s Tannehill,” Danielson said. “It’s his toughness, he’s a little unorthodox, and he’s as competitive as I’ve ever seen.”
I wonder what rock Danielson has been hiding under, and who has been delivering the crack-cocaine to him.
Phillip Rivers? Nah, he isn't like Kosar at all. Afterall, Kosar was a converted wide receiver who has fast wheels and a strong arm...
Danielson couldn't be any more transparent with this one...
They are both extremely gifted in reading a D maybe?
Quote: “If you’d asked me prior to the draft, which college quarterback in the past 10 years most reminds me of Bernie Kosar, it’s Tannehill,” Danielson said. “It’s his toughness, he’s a little unorthodox, and he’s as competitive as I’ve ever seen.”
I wonder what rock Danielson has been hiding under, and who has been delivering the crack-cocaine to him.
Phillip Rivers? Nah, he isn't like Kosar at all. Afterall, Kosar was a converted wide receiver who has fast wheels and a strong arm...
Danielson couldn't be any more transparent with this one...
it is the evil plot by Mayock, Polian, Brandt, McShay, Danielson, LaCanfora and myself to make Tannehill ruler of the world. First stop QB of the Browns.
or they all need page clicks, QBs drive page clicks.
Indy nabs Luck. Yawn, so December. Skins nab RGIII. Yawn, so 2 weeks ago. Vikings have Ponder, yawn.
Hmmm, this Browns team seems to need a QB. Who is the next QB on the list? Tannehill? The same guy who got Sherman fired? Really? Okay, Tannehill to the Browns. Muwahaha, here come the page clicks.
it is the evil plot to by Mayock, Polian, Brandt, McShay, Danielson, LaCanfora and myself to make Tannehill ruler of the world. First stop QB of the Browns.
I don't want to start a firestorm, but Since Holmy was talking to the season tkt holders about missing out on RGIII, I've wondered just how much we did offer. Heckert even said the talk about all those picks was crazy. And Fisher just laughed when they told him how Holmy was saying we offered just as much.
Sorry I just don't see it. Were in Re-building mode. There's no way were going to trade all those draft picks for a guy that has that many ?? marks.
Yeah, I know what Holmy said, but you have to remember who he was talking to and He Had To Convince The Season TKT. Holders that he was Doing Something.
He couldn't ignore the fans and their support. He put on a show. I'm glad that trade did not go thru and I bet Herkert is still shaking his head.
Course we will never know the true story, but I have doubts that we ever offered anything over #4 and #3 this yr. and a possible #2 next year. We just can't afford to give up that many picks, and not on a #2 prospect.
I'm not a conspiracy type guy, but man, I've been around business and the way dealings work, and what we need vs. what we were going to give up? I just don't see it. Heckert has not operated that way since he's been here and unless Holmy demanded he do it (which I doubt) I say he was just saving face with the fans.
I can't say I've heard a stranger comparison. Smarts and competitiveness may be similar. Weird is all I can say.
A month ago I said that he's be the pick at 4 and Holmgren would find a way to sell it to the fanbase. Is Danielson doing the Browns a favor here? Comparing an unpopular yet in my mind a good pick with one of the most beloved Browns of all time?
That's the only thing I can come up with that makes even remote sense.
Agree - I don't get the comparison. I saw Kosar play, and I've seen Tannehill a couple times, but there was never once a time when I watched Tannehill and thought of Bernie. Tannehill is athletic and mobile, but I didn't see any of the manifest intuitiveness and audacity that Kosar showed as a QB.
I think this is just a big smoke screen. And the browns are playing their cards perfectly. Build up Tannehill, make the dolphins nervous, the dolphins trade with the vikes, Kalil drops to #4, the rams trade up to get him and we come out of this with extra picks. ITS all a win-win, except we'll be called losers in the media because we lost out on another QB.......
The game has changed tremendously in the past 10 years. The passing game IS the offense now. I would bet anything neither Dilfer or Brad Johnson would ever win a super bowl in this era, no matter what defense they had.
Quote: The game has changed tremendously in the past 10 years. The passing game IS the offense now. I would bet anything neither Dilfer or Brad Johnson would ever win a super bowl in this era, no matter what defense they had.
Alex Smith was a couple muffed punts from having a shot at one.
Quote: The game has changed tremendously in the past 10 years. The passing game IS the offense now. I would bet anything neither Dilfer or Brad Johnson would ever win a super bowl in this era, no matter what defense they had.
Alex Smith was a couple muffed punts from having a shot at one.
And the browns were a drive and fumble away too. Does not matter unfortunately.
in the overall scheme, no it does not. however, to suggest that a team cannot possibly win without a premier passer while relying on their defense is folly when 2 teams who made the conference championship games did just that (SF and Baltimore).
Both lost, but they were very close and both could have won. One of those teams was a dropped pass from winning or missed FG from going to OT. The other a couple of muffed punts from winning.
And, I can bring up the Jets in the 2 years prior also getting to the doorstep.
It makes the margin for error much slimmer, but it still can be done.
Quote: Both lost, but they were very close and both could have won. One of those teams was a dropped pass from winning or missed FG from going to OT. The other a couple of muffed punts from winning.
My point is that you can literally say this for any team to ever play in those types of games. Look at the past decade and the strength of those teams passing attacks that played in the SUPERBOWL.
To be fair Sanchez steps his game up big time in the playoffs or when the playoffs are on the line. Anyway if you dont have a terrific QB, your chances are slim to none.
ok, what about Pittsburgh? Ben's 1st SB year he sure wasn't a high-flying passing man. NYG's 2007 season wasn't built on Eli's arm. He played much better in the playoffs but noone was pointing to them as a high powered attack until after they won. Or, take a look at how Peyton actually did in the SB that he won.
I understand having an elite QB gives you much, much better odds of getting there and winning. However, I think people are taking it too far and saying that it is the ONLY way to get things done. Plenty of successful teams disagree.
Quote: Both lost, but they were very close and both could have won. One of those teams was a dropped pass from winning or missed FG from going to OT. The other a couple of muffed punts from winning.
My point is that you can literally say this for any team to ever play in those types of games. Look at the past decade and the strength of those teams passing attacks that played in the SUPERBOWL.
I never understood the logic that you should emulate the team that played in the super bowl but not the team that lost the conference championship game in the final minute. Are they really that different? Why not only emulate the team that WON the super bowl? Why not emulate the division winners and not the wild card teams? What do you do then if the wild card team makes it to the super bowl? Oh the quandry.
Simple fact is that to win consistently in this league you have to be good at more than one thing because eventually some other team is going to successfully take that one thing away from you and you better be able to rely on something else. The other simple fact is that a lot of teams that get to the super bowl end up relying on things in the playoffs that were not necessarily strengths in the regular season... some teams just freakin' get hot in the playoffs and its hard to explain why.
The more facets of the game you are good at, the better your chances of winning consistently in the regular season and the playoffs and I'm not sure there is one single facet you can look at and say, "This is the one you HAVE to be good at to win the super bowl."
Quote: I think this is just a big smoke screen. And the browns are playing their cards perfectly. Build up Tannehill, make the dolphins nervous, the dolphins trade with the vikes, Kalil drops to #4, the rams trade up to get him and we come out of this with extra picks. ITS all a win-win, except we'll be called losers in the media because we lost out on another QB.......
The Rams wouldn't beleive the Browns would take Kalil at #4. Who is at 5?
Tannehill is going to go to either the Browns, Tampa Bay, Miami, or maybe even Dallas.
If the Browns don't take him, then they passed on him. If they pass on him, then it is their own fault.
I never understood the logic that you should emulate the team that played in the super bowl but not the team that lost the conference championship game in the final minute. Are they really that different? Why not only emulate the team that WON the super bowl? Why not emulate the division winners and not the wild card teams? What do you do then if the wild card team makes it to the super bowl? Oh the quandry.
Simple fact is that to win consistently in this league you have to be good at more than one thing because eventually some other team is going to successfully take that one thing away from you and you better be able to rely on something else. The other simple fact is that a lot of teams that get to the super bowl end up relying on things in the playoffs that were not necessarily strengths in the regular season... some teams just freakin' get hot in the playoffs and its hard to explain why.
The more facets of the game you are good at, the better your chances of winning consistently in the regular season and the playoffs and I'm not sure there is one single facet you can look at and say, "This is the one you HAVE to be good at to win the super bowl."
I never understood the logic that you should emulate the team that played in the super bowl but not the team that lost the conference championship game in the final minute. Are they really that different? Why not only emulate the team that WON the super bowl? Why not emulate the division winners and not the wild card teams? What do you do then if the wild card team makes it to the super bowl? Oh the quandry.
Simple fact is that to win consistently in this league you have to be good at more than one thing because eventually some other team is going to successfully take that one thing away from you and you better be able to rely on something else. The other simple fact is that a lot of teams that get to the super bowl end up relying on things in the playoffs that were not necessarily strengths in the regular season... some teams just freakin' get hot in the playoffs and its hard to explain why.
The more facets of the game you are good at, the better your chances of winning consistently in the regular season and the playoffs and I'm not sure there is one single facet you can look at and say, "This is the one you HAVE to be good at to win the super bowl."
The Rams wouldn't beleive the Browns would take Kalil at #4. Who is at 5?
Tannehill is going to go to either the Browns, Tampa Bay, Miami, or maybe even Dallas.
If the Browns don't take him, then they passed on him. If they pass on him, then it is their own fault.
Actually I think KC and Denver would be real strong possibilities even More so than Cleveland, Tampa and Dallas. I agree Dallas would be a good destination for him and Denver would be ideal. The Rams might not believe the Brown's would take Kalil but they know they would trade out of that spot.
I agree that Denver would be the ideal landing spot for Tannehill. Provides them protection if Peyton gets hurt down the line, while giving Tannehill tons of time to learn without pressure (if Peyton stays healthy).
Jim Irsay calls Ryan Tannehill “a hidden gem in this draft” Posted by Michael David Smith on April 11, 2012, 1:23 PM EDT Ryan Tannehill AP
Colts owner Jim Irsay has already tweeted that Andrew Luck is the Colts’ likely selection with the first overall pick in the NFL draft, but that isn’t stopping him from talking up another quarterback, Texas A&M’s Ryan Tannehill.
Irsay is not, however, suggesting that there’s any chance the Colts will take Tannehill. Instead, he’s saying that after the Colts take Luck and the Redskins take Robert Griffin III, some team will trade up with the Vikings and take Tannehill third overall.
“Tannehill is a hidden gem in this draft,a quiet secret who was always sneaking up to #3..you want him,you better talk to Zigi The Biggie!” Irsay wrote on Twitter.
“Zigi The Biggie” would be Vikings owner Zygi Wilf, whom Irsay apparently thinks is the person who will ultimately decide what Minnesota does with the third overall pick.
From all indications Irsay has been totally locked in on Luck for months, but he apparently likes Tannehill as well. And he’s not alone. Although few people viewed Tannehill as a Top 10 overall pick during his senior season at Texas A&M, over the last few months his profile has steadily risen, and now it doesn’t sound totally unreasonable that some team would offer the Vikings a package of picks to take Tannehill third. Whether Tannehill is a gem or not remains to be seen, but he’s no longer hidden. web page
Irsay really seems to see his football team as a toy I think. Not saying that's good, bad, or indifferent, but he seems to make light of it quite a bit compared to other owners.
Surprised that you posted this Mourg. I thought you started a thread about why Twitter shouldn't be allowed on here and this whole article is derived from a tweet.
Which makes me wonder why Irsay would tweet this. I mean... Is he just sitting around having lunch and gets the sudden urge to tweet about a QB that he will have no part of? If he is a hidden Gem does that mean he will take him at 1? What is the point? Is he going through tweet withdrawals after the Manning fiasco?
I think Irsay just discovered that in a matter of a few seconds he can tweet random, sometimes off the wall things, and get lots of attention... and he really likes the attention.
Quote: I think this is just a big smoke screen. And the browns are playing their cards perfectly. Build up Tannehill, make the dolphins nervous, the dolphins trade with the vikes, Kalil drops to #4, the rams trade up to get him and we come out of this with extra picks. ITS all a win-win, except we'll be called losers in the media because we lost out on another QB.......
The Rams wouldn't beleive the Browns would take Kalil at #4. Who is at 5?
Tannehill is going to go to either the Browns, Tampa Bay, Miami, or maybe even Dallas.
If the Browns don't take him, then they passed on him. If they pass on him, then it is their own fault.
Do you think that the Rams where going to take Griffen at 2? No, but if the Vikings trade out of pick 3 and Kalil falls to us then the Rams will want to go after Kalil to beat another lower teams chance at trading up for Kalil.
Kalil would probably draw a few teams into thinking about trading up for the best LT.
I think the Vikings were hoping for another QB needy team giving up a slew of picks for Tannehill. I could however see the Rams giving up pick 33 to move up to get that LT.
Starting to believe if we trade down, it will be at 22 and not at 4.
Then again, Merciless, Jonathon Martin, Stephen Hill, I don't know if i would trade down lol.
Quote: I think the Vikings were hoping for another QB needy team giving up a slew of picks for Tannehill. I could however see the Rams giving up pick 33 to move up to get that LT.
Starting to believe if we trade down, it will be at 22 and not at 4.
Then again, Merciless, Jonathon Martin, Stephen Hill, I don't know if i would trade down lol.
Yeah, I like either J Martin or Perry at 22. I don't think that Hill is a good fit or even in our plans, because he needs to go to a team like the Cardinals who has an established veteran #1 WR imo. (He will not do as well as the go to guy right from the start).
I really don't want to target a WR at 22, because of some of the other positions of need figure to be in the mix there.
Merciless I think will be gone by 22, because like Ingram he will appeal to both defensive types as a OLB / DE.
I think Perry will be better off at DE, although I have seen some mocks having him go to the Steelers in the 1st round. I think they are in the same boat as we are hoping to get one of the top 4-5 OT's.
Quote: I think Irsay just discovered that in a matter of a few seconds he can tweet random, sometimes off the wall things, and get lots of attention... and he really likes the attention.
He didn't just discover it, this clown has been doing this for quite a while now.
This article is written by Dolphins Beat Writer for the Palm Beach Post similar to Ulrich or Doershuk so I don't see any issues. It's the Yin to Gary Danielson's Yang. If by some chance there is please Remove ref.
ESPN reporter Adam Schefter went on the Mike and Mike radio program on Wednesday and said that the Dolphins face a lot of pressure to draft quarterback Ryan Tannehill with their first-round pick “to at least quiet this perception that has existed that they have been unable to get guys that they targeted,” (Jeff Fisher, Jim Harbaugh, Peyton Manning, even Matt Flynn).
Schefter said the Dolphins may have to do whatever it takes to get Tannehill – graded by many as a low-first or second-round prospect – even if it means trading all the way up to the No. 3 pick to get him.
“If somebody catapults them in the draft … no matter how much they did or didn’t want Ryan Tannehill, it’s going to look bad for the organization,” Schefter said.
That might be true. But host Mike Golic and former Ravens Super Bowl-winning coach Brian Billick both agreed that that would be a terrible reason to draft Tannehill.
“If you don’t think he’s a franchise quarterback, that’s not the way to solve your problem,” Golic said Thursday morning on air. “Just because you feel your organization has taken a hit on quarterbacks is no reason to be taking a guy, even at your spot at 8, let alone trading up to 3.”
“By saying, ‘We better take a quarterback because people are starting to talk around here that we can’t get a quarterback, so let’s just grab the next quarterback available,’ that’s a bad road to go down.”
In our Mock Draft, we have the Dolphins taking UNC defensive end Quinton Coples for just that reason. Getting an elite, game-changing pass rusher is a better use of the eighth overall pick than gambling on a raw quarterback.
Billick said on the show Thursday that Tannehill has the feel of “a classic miss,” given that he only started 19 games at quarterback at Texas A&M and has risen up many mock draft boards simply because he happens to be the third-best quarterback in the draft, behind Andrew Luck and Robert Griffin. And just because the Dolphins haven’t drafted a first-round quarterback since Dan Marino in 1983 doesn’t mean they have to take a shot at Tannehill.
“He is an intriguing prospect, he has great potential, but let’s remember the old saying – ‘Son, your potential is going to get me fired,’” Billick said. “‘Need’ is an absolute terrible evaluator.”
Billick compared Tannehill to former No. 1 overall prospect JaMarcus Russell in that both had tremendous physical skills – Tannehill is 6-4, 221 pounds with a strong arm and good mechanics – but neither played much in college.
“The way he’s rushed up the charts concerns me a great deal,” Billick said. “Here is Ryan Tannehill, who was not thought of this highly at the end of the season after you looked at the film, but has shot up the ranks because what we’ve seen of him in shorts. All of a sudden now we’re talking about him being a top 3 pick? That’s a dangerous area.”
Golic said that if the Dolphins take Tannehill (either with the eighth pick or in a trade-up), it will put a lot of undue pressure on both Tannehill and the Dolphins.
“You are now saying, ‘Our franchise, he’s going to make it or break it for the next five to 10 years’” Golic said. “And that’s a lot to put on a guy.”
What happened that he is now overrated? Kiper doesn't want to go through another Quinn episode where he about Cried when he had him rated so high and teams kept passing him over..
Billik and kiper have been taking shots at tannehill for awhile. It is probably why his stock keeps rising. When McShay said Tannehill was a more accurate passer when rolling out than either Luck or RG3, I thought Kiper would explode. lol
As for the PHins. I don't expect them to trade up. They would take Tannehill if he happened to fall to them but I can't see them trading up with Moore coming off a strong finish the season.
When time expired on Tannehill's/Weeden's last second as a college athlete, where were they thought to be worthy of being picked in the draft?
You know...after their last meaningful game?
I'd say maybe the end of the 2nd for Tannehill and probably late 3rd or 4th for Weeden.
Several months later, these guys are being talked about at #4 OVERALL or mid 1st.
I hope we stick to the tape and stay away from the hype.
That was Billicks point when comparing Tannehill to Russell.. not that he was going to flame out that badly but that both were later projections as football players, then when evaluated "in shorts" (his term) they shot up due to their athletic ability (and teams need for a QB)...
These guys doing the projections are lazy. I had Tannehill top 20 well before regular season ended. I had Griffin in there as well when most had him as a 3rd rounder. those during season rankings don't mean all that much when you have people doing them that have never watched a kid play.
Griffin really wasn't on anyone's map until the game against Texas A&M. He showed up and looked like a real prospect.
I had Dontari Poe as a solid first round prospect when few had him in the top 10 of DT's.
You are just giving way to much credit to guys that watched less tape on these prospects than you did. Now these guys have talked to scouts and found out what their true value is.
I know where you are coming from and you are probably correct...what I did not say...is that I was/am talking more about the actual NFL teams than the talking heads.
For example: I doubt Heckert has Tannehill rated any differently today than he did after his last game ended. The meeting and workouts will have meaning for sure...but won't likely move a guy from the slot he is thought to be appropriate for drafting.
Quote: “The way he’s rushed up the charts concerns me a great deal,” Billick said. “Here is Ryan Tannehill, who was not thought of this highly at the end of the season after you looked at the film, but has shot up the ranks because what we’ve seen of him in shorts.
I held this high of an opinion on Tannehill after his bowl game vs Northwestern.
I don't think it would be possible for him to improve his impressions with GM's by what he does " in shorts" , that doesn't happen at the Qb position. It would be possible for him to fall down the ranks if hes showed signs of any problems but a Qb can't improve over his film by having a good combine, because Qb's are required to make so many decisions and the only way they can show improvement on that is on the field with with a defense and an offense.
i love seeing turd mcshart sweat when Kiper basically calls him out for parroting articles on the internet that were out two weeks ago and TM has got nothing to back up his claims.
Quote: i love seeing turd mcshart sweat when Kiper basically calls him out for parroting articles on the internet that were out two weeks ago and TM has got nothing to back up his claims.
I love it too! I just wish they were both wearing shirts that said "Tool" on them..
Thursday April 12, 2012 - 1:29 PM Mike Freeman Tannehill a top-10 draft pick? Only when the annual madness sets in By Mike Freeman | CBSSports.com National NFL Insider
So here we are again, the annual NFL Draft, where smart men suddenly become incredibly dumb. Example No. 7 trillion: Texas A&M quarterback Ryan Tannehill is suddenly a first-round pick.
If Tannehill moved any faster up the NFL's draft boards, he'd be Deion Sanders. Starships don't travel this quickly. Still trying to figure out why. Was it his 1-5 record against ranked teams? Was it his completion percentage that fell last year? Was it his quarterback rating that was lower than Brock Osweiler's?
Or the 19 starts? Or that not too long ago he was a wide receiver.
Maybe it's the remarkable pedigree of Big 12 quarterbacks in the NFL, like Chris Simms, Brad Smith, Colt McCoy or Vince Young. They've been just swell.
In January 2011, Tannehill went against LSU and its NFL-caliber defensive backs. It was his sixth start, and he tossed three picks. This was a Tannehill pattern for much of his college career at quarterback. The more athletic the defense, the worst he performed, and as we all know, there are no athletes roaming NFL secondaries. None at all.
Tannehill has the greatest bust potential of any possible first-round pick. This is nothing personal against Tannehill. He seems like a fine young man and a smart dude. This is about the people doing the evaluating. This is the great follywang of the draft, and we see this every year.
Common sense is replaced by hope. Words like "potential" become fruitful and multiply. It was in this environment players like Blaine Gabbert and JaMarcus Russell floated to places they should have never gone. We've all suffered from draft dementia at some point, but this seems to happen to significant segments of the NFL every year.
In speaking with several team personnel executives, there is a distinct possibility the Dolphins will take Tannehill with the No. 8 pick. This could be the Dolphins using their Enigma machine to send out counter-intelligence (another draft staple), but the Tannehill-Miami speculation seems legitimate.
Thus, if you Google the phrase "setting up to fail," there's a picture of Tannehill right alongside Ty Tryon, Bode Miller and Ricky Williams. Tannehill is a third-rounder or maybe -- maybe -- a late second-round pick. I've seen him play. Good athleticism, nice arm, but there's nothing that should elevate him into the top eight in the draft. He wasn't even among the eight best players in his conference.
The big issue with Tannehill is throwing accuracy. That's an important quality for an NFL quarterback. Allegedly.
"I feel like he's being pushed up the board not necessarily on his ability to play the position at the next level but on his athleticism and people predicting his potential," former Denver general manager Ted Sundquist said on the NFL Network recently. "I think the Dolphins, if they take [Michael] Floyd, have an opportunity to find a quarterback with that second (round) pick ... much like Cincinnati did last year when they took A.J. Green and found Andy Dalton waiting for them. I would take Michael Floyd with the Miami Dolphins' pick at No. 8."
That man makes sense. Maybe because he has been out of the NFL for a few years. The more distance you get from football, the less you are affected by draft silliness. It's like escaping a radioactive plume.
NFL personnel types never learn their lesson. Ever. A combine performance changes everything, overshadowing what they witnessed with their own eyes when a player was on the field.
Tannehill vaulting upward like Carl Lewis is more a sign of teams desperate for a quarterback and wishful thinking. There are two great throwers in this draft: Andrew Luck and Robert Griffin III. After that, it's more of a hodgepodge. After that, for the most part, it's a cluster of second-tier guys, and you're fooling yourself if you believe Tannehill's drastically superior than some of the other quarterbacks.
Or you're also suffering from draft dementia. ----------------------------------------- Freeman, Kiper and Billick have declared Tannehill is the world's greatest bust. Three QBs they believed in the most. Billik = Boller Kiper=Quinn Freeman= Vince Young Make room in Canton
Weeden better prospect than Tannehill, says ESPN's KC Joyner...
Maintaining a rational perspective this time of year is an invaluable trait, but it seems that perspective is being lost when it comes to measuring the relative draft day merits of Oklahoma State Cowboys quarterback Brandon Weeden and Texas A&M Aggies passer Ryan Tannehill.
Tannehill's huge edge in age (he will be 24 years old at the end of the 2012 NFL season, while Weeden will be 29) is a primary reason he has been vaulted over Weeden on many draft boards, but a variety of metrics reveal that Weeden is the better QB prospect and more than makes up for the calendar difference.
Overall metrics
Let's start by reviewing their 2011 route depth metrics in contests against BCS conference-caliber foes (sans the Kansas game for Weeden).
Weeden beat Tannehill in yards per attempt (YPA) at every route depth level except for the bomb pass category, and his 4 YPA lead in stretch vertical passes shows that he was still more productive on aerials deep downfield.
Consistency
Weeden was also much more consistent than Tannehill.
Tannehill completed 70 percent of his passes in two of his 2011 contests against BCS conference teams. Weeden topped that mark six times.
Tannehill posted a YPA total of 8 yards or higher in three games. Weeden did that five times.
Tannehill notched a passer rating mark of 140 or higher three times (if the Northwestern game in which he came up just short of this level is counted in his favor). Weeden reached that mark nine times and actually only had two games in which he did not achieve this goal.
Career growth
Tannehill started on a high note in his first three starts of the 2010 season (switching over from WR), but when the competition level increased dramatically over the last three games of the season (versus Nebraska, at Texas, versus LSU in the Cotton Bowl), he went 55-for-94 for 504 yards with three touchdowns and three interceptions. That equates to an abysmal 5.4 YPA and an equally bad 107.7 passer rating. Rumors: Who Wants Tannehill?
ESPN Insider takes a deeper look at the teams that are rumored to covet quarterback Ryan Tannehill. Rumor Central Insider
The late-season swoon for Tannehill recurred in 2011 during the last seven BCS-caliber games of that season, as he posted a YPA mark of 6.1 or less five times. Take the contest against the abysmal Kansas Jayhawks' defense (ranked No. 118 in passer rating allowed) out of his totals during that time frame and Tannehill had a 5.9 YPA and a 113.8 passer rating, both of which are quite comparable to the aforementioned poor statistical marks he had in 2010.
To get an idea of how much Weeden's passing performance grew from 2010 to 2011, note that he topped the 140-passer rating mark in only five BCS games in the 2010 campaign; in 2011 he did it nine times.
Ability to raise the level of play of those around him
This factor is huge for Weeden, because contrary to popular belief, Justin Blackmon did not have a dominant 2011 campaign. This was a primary reason Blackmon ended up ranking sixth in my recent review of the top 10 wide receiver prospects in this year's NFL draft class.
Blackmon's overall YPA numbers were more than three yards off of his dominant junior season totals yet Weeden was able to keep the Cowboys' offense scoring points at an even higher rate.
Tannehill did face something of the same issue with one of his star wideouts, as Jeff Fuller regressed from a 9.1 YPA against BCS teams in 2010 to a 6.5 YPA mark in that category in 2011, but a lot of that credit has to go to Ryan Swope. Swope set Aggies single-season totals in receiving and receiving yards last year and established himself as the team's true No. 1 wideout. Weeden did not have the luxury of an alternate No.1 wide receiver (Josh Cooper, the Cowboys' second-best wideout, is merely a possession receiver), and thus his achievement here still ends up being superior.
Big game performance
The most disturbing part of this analysis is that Tannehill fell apart when the Aggies needed him the most. The most egregious example is when he posted a career-low 80.45 passer rating in Texas A&M's farewell Big 12 contest against the archrival Texas Longhorns. That passer rating was not a statistical anomaly, either, as Tannehill made a slew of passing errors and looked rattled by the Longhorns' defense. 2012 NFL Draft
NFL The Indianapolis Colts are officially on the clock. Follow the latest draft developments on ESPN.com.
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Weeden did not have a dominant statistical performance in the Cowboys' biggest game of the year, a blowout victory over the archrival Oklahoma Sooners in a Bedlam game that decided the winner of the Big 12 conference, but he had zero interceptions and zero bad decisions in that contest (a bad decision being a mental error, such as a dropped interception, that leads either to a turnover or a near turnover). That stands in stark contrast to the three interceptions he posted against the Sooners in 2010 and again shows how Weeden was able to grow with experience.
Age isn't a big issue
Trent Dilfer made a terrific point when he noted in a recent Insider article that NFL teams rarely think of their quarterbacks along the lines of a 10-year plan.
History affords many cases of elite quarterback play over the age of 29. According to the seasonal NFL YPA leaders chart on pro-football-reference.com, 47 out of the 95 quarterbacks who have led or tied for the lead in that category since 1936 have been 29 years or older.
Biography
In some ways this may be the most important factor of all.
Tannehill wasn't able to win the Aggies' starting job in 2008 and was only moved back into that role two a half years later when Jerrod Johnson's injuries and erratic play left the Texas A&M coaches with little choice.
By contrast, Weeden came into a program that had a record-setting starter in Zac Robinson, so he had to wait until Robinson graduated to get a shot at the job. Once he received that opportunity, Weeden won the gig and dominated from day one, breaking Robinson's marks and winning all-conference honors.
This leads to an obvious question. If Tannehill had trouble winning over his collegiate coaches less than two years ago and his play since that time has been inconsistent at best and Weeden's path has been pretty much the exact opposite, why are people banking on Tannehill as the better prospect?
A five-year age edge is certainly significant, but when the entirety of the evidence is taken into account, Weeden is by far the better quarterback prospect.
Quote: Freeman, Kiper and Billick have declared Tannehill is the world's greatest bust. Three QBs they believed in the most. Billik = Boller Kiper=Quinn Freeman= Vince Young Make room in Canton
I think Billik admitted he loved Russel. Now I know you're stating that because he drafted Boller, but if I recall correctly, didn't he end up taking Boller because he lost out on a higher rated QB? I'm too lazy to look it up, but didn't he really want someone like Leftwich? My memory of how that went down in the draft is just fuzzy enough not to remember who he really wanted, only to have to settle for the next rated QB in Boller.
Hmmm...speaking of that, didn't we really want Griffin? We didn't get him, so aren't we settling for the next best guy if we go Tannehill or Weeden?
Quote: History affords many cases of elite quarterback play over the age of 29. According to the seasonal NFL YPA leaders chart on pro-football-reference.com, 47 out of the 95 quarterbacks who have led or tied for the lead in that category since 1936 have been 29 years or older.
Wow... what an idiotic "proof" this is. Problem is, Weeden will just be STARTING OUT at 29. The elite QB play he talks about didn't just happen at age 29. For most, it took 4-5 years to get to that point. Nobody is talking about Weeden as an "elite" prospect to begin with. Add his age to the equation and we're looking at a guy who SHOULD be taken no earlier than the second round.
We're inside two weeks... We're inside two weeks... We're inside two weeks...
Quote: Tannehill has the greatest bust potential of any possible first-round pick.
I'm picking out this quote from the article, not to take a shot at Tannehill (I've got other ammo for that ) but to exemplify the madness that's happening with QB's.
I'm going to DISAGREE with the above statement, actually. Just like how badly Tannehill has flown up the charts only because he's a QB, Weeden is gaining momentum and according to some "experts" he's now also a 1st round QB. If that's the case, then Weeden becomes the most likely to "bust" and it's not close.
Tannehill is so raw it's sickening. Because of that and that alone he shouldn't be a first round pick (something I've contended since day one). However, because he is so raw, it's going to take him years to put it together, if he even can. That means he's going to get time to learn, whether it's with his first team or his second.
Now Weeden is a different story. He's going to be 30 in his sophomore season. He doesn't have the luxury of waiting until his 4th season to figure it out. If he doesn't get it by his second or third season, no team is going to be patient with a guy in his 30's. That means Weeden has about two years...maybe three...to effectively become a legitimate starter in the NFL or he's done. And since he's now a supposed top-40 player, that makes Weeden the guy with the biggest bust potential.
Weeden does not throw well once he has to move around. It is the same knock with Landry Jones. Teams see this they will jam the receivers and bring heat. His age isn't the only issue. NFL teams will expose this major flaw in his game.
Tannehill is a top 10 pick because of his amazing skill set and upside. Now he just has to finish selling himself to the Browns Sunday and Monday. They will probably head back to Texas for his private workout after his visit.
His workout and visit will be fresh in the minds of the FO with it being so close to the draft.
I'll tell ya this...I don't want any of these over-rated 1st-round QB's. Outside of Luck and RG3, they are all developmental guys, and if I'm taking a developmental guy, I'm not going to blow a high pick on him. Give me instant starters at need positions, then give me a Cousins in the 3rd or 4th.
Quote: Now Aol's Sportingnews has us taking Weeden with our other 1st rounder.
Screw that.
I agree..If I'm the Brown's I stay pat and hope he falls to at least 37..If he is not there it was not meant to be. I can't see anyone else taking him before then..Maybe Miaimi if they don't get Tannehill. but they will have to trade up to get him and we would be informed about that as our picks are more appealing.
He gets rid of the ball though, he's not stupid...he has worked in an Offense where he got the ball out early on most plays...he's a pure pocket passer, sure...but since we have an All Pro LT, good C and probably a high pick rookie RT, they can be valuable for a change instead of blocking for Colt "5sec freeze" McCoy and be wasted more or less
I don't how anyone can't get excited watching Weeden throw the ball...dude sprays it all over the field with easy and unlike DA he has underneath touch
I see, this will be another Ward-pick moment if we pick him at 22 or 37...where every Brownsfan went WTF !?! and I was happy....who wants hype-Mays over Ward today?
Weeden is a fine QB and I agree Toad: he gets 2 years max...I even think we can go QB in 2013 if he doesn't look good enough....we're going to find out quickly on Weeden which way he'll trend: Boller/Losman or Roethli
Quote: We already have Cousins on our roster. We call him Colt.
To a certain degree, yes, but Cousin's is really the only QB in this draft class that comes to the league out of a full-time pro-style offense. McCoy sucks so bad at it that we've had to build shotgun plays just so he can feel more comfortable. Also, McCoy will only have one more season on his contract once this season is over. He's on life-support and won't survive being the starter if he doesn't get it quickly. That's assuming the Browns even have an intention of letting him be the starter. He wasn't going to be with RG3 here. Cousins would come into the league with the promise of upside and a non-expiring contract.
However, beyond all that, they are somewhat the same player. Both mobile, both with average arms, good short-range accuracy, both good leaders. Cousin's is two inches bigger.
I'd rather we just use our picks this year to build the team and worry about the starting QB position next year. I talk about Cousins only as a hedge-bet, and he only makes sense as a long-term backup if he doesn't happen to make enough gains to become the starter. Once McCoy is benched, he's done as a Brown. He won't sign a new deal to stick around. That means we'll need a backup QB in 2013, and Cousin's fits the mold.
If we aren't sold on Tannehill, we should wait until next year and take our shot at a QB there. At least with Colt, I will be able to save some money. There would be no reason to renew NFL sunday ticket.
Quote: I'll tell ya this...I don't want any of these over-rated 1st-round QB's. Outside of Luck and RG3, they are all developmental guys, and if I'm taking a developmental guy, I'm not going to blow a high pick on him. Give me instant starters at need positions, then give me a Cousins in the 3rd or 4th.
Weeden is no more developmental, then is Griffen. Griffen's ceiling is higher, but he is no more ready imo, but he won't have that luxury being the 2nd overall selection.
I am totally on board with us taking Weeden in the 2nd round, but I don't think he is a must have, because there will be some pretty good talent at other positions there too.
Quote: We already have Cousins on our roster. We call him Colt.
To a certain degree, yes, but Cousin's is really the only QB in this draft class that comes to the league out of a full-time pro-style offense. McCoy sucks so bad at it that we've had to build shotgun plays just so he can feel more comfortable.
This is why people questioned Griffin coming here because as Bill Walsh Disciples they have been very ridged in their system and not adapting to the times or the strengths of their players..Cam Newton and Tebow were guys that they tailored the system to make them more comfortable..we used the Shotgun because our line was bad.
Here is a fun fact..although it is only through October.. I would be interested to see the end year results and maybe look harder later.
Running the shotgun has resulted in a lot of blanks for AFC North quarterbacks. According to ESPN Stats & Information, none of the division quarterbacks rank in the top 14 in the league when throwing out of the shotgun formation.
The best in the shotgun has been the Browns' Colt McCoy, who ranks 15th in the NFL with a 81.6 quarterback rating. He has completed 62.8 percent of his passes for 493 yards. McCoy has thrown four touchdowns and two interceptions.
Bengals rookie quarterback Andy Dalton has averaged the second-most passes out of the shotgun behind McCoy. He's completed 59.6 percent of his passes in this formation for 703 yards and a rating of 75.6.
Ben Roethlisberger has averaged the most passing yards per game in the shotgun (166.6), but the Steelers quarterback has struggled the most at times in it. He's thrown one touchdown and four interceptions for a 69.4 rating.
The most surprising production has come from the Ravens' Joe Flacco, who primarily workout of the shotgun in college. His quarterback rating of 65.1 ranks 30th in this formation.
Russ Lande: Tannehill has strongest arm in 2012 draft Posted by Evan Silva on April 13, 2012, 3:22 PM EDT
Former Ravens head coach Brian Billick isn’t high on former Texas A&M quarterback Ryan Tannehill as a 2012 draft prospect, but league evaluators certainly seem to be. Tannehill is widely regarded as a surefire top-12 pick.
Russ Lande of Sporting News isn’t in the league anymore, but he has experience as an NFL scout. Now a leading “draftnik,” Lande rates Tannehill with the strongest arm among quarterbacks in the 2012 draft class.
“Tannehill has risen up draft boards so fast because he reminds many of a more consistent Jay Cutler,” Lande wrote in a piece ranking and analyzing this year’s draft-eligible quarterbacks. “The ball explodes out of Tannehill’s hand and gets to the receiver before defenders can make a play.”
Tannehill is suddenly the most polarizing player in the draft. Thursday’s episode of NFL Live on ESPN opened with a Todd McShay-Mel Kiper back-and-forth argument debating Tannehill’s draft-day value, as well as his outlook as an NFL player.
McShay is much higher on Tannehill than Kiper. Appearing on ESPN radio Thursday, McShay opined that Tannehill’s physical talent is superior to currently projected 2013 No. 1 overall pick Matt Barkley.
“I think [Tannehill] has greater upside, physically,” McShay said. “I just look at the two. Tannehill has a better arm, more mobile. I think he has better tools [than Barkley] if he can get there.” web page
Just look at his (Tannehill's) bowl game vs Northwestern, it was mid 4th quarter to late 4th quarter. The game situation, he really could have shut it down went conservative, made the short throws, try the dump off passes, run the clock out, shorten the game.
What I saw was a guy who wanted to extend the game, who made deep passes, who moved the ball down the field in a couple plays, in short, what I saw was a guy who in my opinion was trying to say, " I can play 8 quarters every Sunday and my arm won't be sore" .
One thing is for sure, If they took Tannehill and he came here, and all of a sudden, at the ( time frame of) 1 and a quarter seconds after the snap the ball leaves the qb's hands in route to 15-20ish yards past the line of scrimmage for a completion,
It would be something we haven't seen around here in a while. Young Brett Favre I tell ya.
Look the Browns blew it by letting Griffin get away. At this point they should try to just upgrade the roster with BPA.
Clearly Richardson is the best player available to the Browns. He would provide immediate returns in offensive production.
What is the point about reaching for a player like Tannehill? Potential, really? Measured against risk, I don't think so.
You take a guy like Tannehill and leave out guys like Richardson, Blackmon, or Claiborne. The Browns are not in a position to do that. Their offense is lacking playmakers. Guys who can score points. You don't reach for potential and leave talent behind.
Again what would be the point in taking a QB later (meaning 3 round or beyond)?
The percentages of a player really contributing drop like crazy after each round especially at QB.
Upgrade the roster. Give McCoy this year with better tools. If he stumbles then mortgage next years draft for the best QB you can get.
I want no part of Tannehill. We did blow it by not managing to acquire RG3. However, now we have to move on with what we have, and I think that we have enough to take a chance on a guy like Weeden in the 2nd round. I don't want to risk a 1st round pick on a QB at this point, but if we have 2 day 1 starters under our belt by the time the 2nd round rolls around, then I have no problem with taking Weeden then as a guy who could potentially bump McCoy out of the starting lineup, and who would not cost a 1st round pick. He would not stop us from taking a QB high next year if we still wanted or needed to.
Quote: Russ Lande: Tannehill has strongest arm in 2012 draft
Russ Lande of Sporting News isn’t in the league anymore, but he has experience as an NFL scout. Now a leading “draftnik,” Lande rates Tannehill with the strongest arm among quarterbacks in the 2012 draft class.
Who is Russ Lande? And Tannehill doesn't have a strong arm. Weeden has the strongest arm in the draft. Looking at Tannehill's games and workouts i dont see how ppl are saying he has such a great arm. He pushes the ball, throws it below his ear, and almost never has a tight spiral on the ball. I havent seen very many passes that had zip on them. Then to add to that.... he gets frustrated easily and has leadership issues.
He is just another Brady Quinn coming out of college(but not as good).... the media always has to hype up some QB. This year its Tannehill. It was RG3, but now since that situation is resolved, the baton gets passed to Tannehill. If Minnesota said they where interested in Tannehill all the media would be talking about is how Weeden is a top 10 pick.
I will admit I have seen very little of Tannhill's throws...but the ones I have...the ball looks like it is "heavy" to him and he certainly appears to push it more than throw it.
I simply don't see the "great" arm that I sometimes read about.
I know he was a scout for the Browns at one time, pretty sure he was with the Rams as well.
Tannehill has one of the strongest arms in this draft. To say otherwise is nonsense. He has everything you want in a quarterback besides the experience and that is why he is a solid top 10 talent. It is also why he will be the next QB for the Browns.
Quote: Russ Lande: Tannehill has strongest arm in 2012 draft
Russ Lande of Sporting News isn’t in the league anymore, but he has experience as an NFL scout. Now a leading “draftnik,” Lande rates Tannehill with the strongest arm among quarterbacks in the 2012 draft class.
Who is Russ Lande? And Tannehill doesn't have a strong arm. Weeden has the strongest arm in the draft. Looking at Tannehill's games and workouts i dont see how ppl are saying he has such a great arm. He pushes the ball, throws it below his ear, and almost never has a tight spiral on the ball. I havent seen very many passes that had zip on them. Then to add to that.... he gets frustrated easily and has leadership issues.
He is just another Brady Quinn coming out of college(but not as good).... the media always has to hype up some QB. This year its Tannehill. It was RG3, but now since that situation is resolved, the baton gets passed to Tannehill. If Minnesota said they where interested in Tannehill all the media would be talking about is how Weeden is a top 10 pick.
Well you are not the greatest judgement of arm strength. You did after all say Kellen Moore has a "strong arm"
I agree that Tannehill has a strong arm. The strongest in the draft? Eh not so sure, who knows. But I think that he is a very poor decision maker. Will that improve with experience? One would hope but the question is how much?
Quote: I'll tell ya this...I don't want any of these over-rated 1st-round QB's. Outside of Luck and RG3, they are all developmental guys, and if I'm taking a developmental guy, I'm not going to blow a high pick on him. Give me instant starters at need positions, then give me a Cousins in the 3rd or 4th.
I'll take anybody's cousin over Cousin..dude made some hairbrain decisions..and he doesn'r have a arm..give me Foles..
Yeah, I am tired of these wimpy, noodle armed guys who can't fit a pass into a department store size window. I want a real QB who can fit the ball into NFL windows, and who can throw the ball accurately to at least the short and medium depths ...... and who can deliver the ball with proper placement so receivers can run with the damn thing after they catch it.
The kid reminds me so much of Jay Cutler. I believe we are bringing him in today and he is staying till monday. After watching Colt for 2 years, they have to be wowed by tannehills skills lol.
Quote: The kid reminds me so much of Jay Cutler. I believe we are bringing him in today and he is staying till monday. After watching Colt for 2 years, they have to be wowed by tannehills skills lol.
The ones where he completely melts under pressure and folds in the second half in a conference with some of the worst defense in the Country? I can see how that would wow them after watching Colt for 21 games in the pros and torch the same competition not long ago.
He can sit behind Colt and learn how to check down on 4th and 15 with a minute to go. I know Colt can teach him the old center toss to mack with the game on the line. Maybe Colt can help him refine his mechanics so he can throw some of those passes that were so bad that the opposing coaches thought they were tipped and threw challenge flags lol.
Quote: He can sit behind Colt and learn how to check down on 4th and 15 with a minute to go. I know Colt can teach him the old center toss to mack with the game on the line. Maybe Colt can help him refine his mechanics so he can throw some of those passes that were so bad that the opposing coaches thought they were tipped and threw challenge flags lol.
He doesn't have to watch Colt to do that..You've watched enough tape on Tannehill to know his best pass is the Quick screen..I actually watched him throw a whole drive of them..it was quite amazing actually. Why Check it down? Tanny could just chuck it to the other team when under pressure,lol
Mourg, on the one hand you say tannehill has been the browns target all along, but on the other hand you say heckert wouldn't draft a WR that high. What gives?
It is just their philosophy in that receivers can be found later. Now a guy like Green, Andre Johnson, Calvin Johnson or Larry Fitzgeralds are rare and if you have a chance you grab them but 2nd level guys you can get 2nd and 3rd round unless you are Mangini or Butch Davis.
The 2nd tier guys and I include Edwards, Julio Jones, Blackmon, are not worth the high investment. Generally, they are more likely to bust or be Quincy morgan journeyman types, than to be, what you are paying for.
RG3 has the worst footwork I've seen from an otherwise successful and accurate college QB. Because he doesn't use his lower half well he does not throw with good velocity.
My stance on his arm strength has evolved though after a throw of his in his bowl game that was very very good. I think he'll be a below average arm strength starter year one and could progress to be a slightly above average guy in the future.
Quote: It is just their philosophy in that receivers can be found later. Now a guy like Green, Andre Johnson, Calvin Johnson or Larry Fitzgeralds are rare and if you have a chance you grab them but 2nd level guys you can get 2nd and 3rd round unless you are Mangini or Butch Davis.
The 2nd tier guys and I include Edwards, Julio Jones, Blackmon, are not worth the high investment. Generally, they are more likely to bust or be Quincy morgan journeyman types, than to be, what you are paying for.
I disagree, that you can find #1 go to type WR out side of the first round. There are exceptions, but those are very far and few in between.
Everyone is so fixated on size these days and that's a big reason for the bust rate of WR. Just because a prospect has the size that teams look for in a WR, this doesn't mean that prospect will have the other 'more important attributes' of a successful WR.
I find it very amusing that the so called experts (who are not always right) can speak of nothing else when talking about justin Blackmon weaknesses. Well some also say that he doesn't have elite speed, but that has been shown to be not the truth. He runs a 4.4 40: and yet is most always not given credit for his actual time. Whereas Richardson runs in the 4.5 40: range and yet is given credit for running in the 4.4 range ... What gives here?
I say screw the dam 40: times and let the film speak for itself.
If you want an example of why the sticking with McCoy is not a winning move just take another look at the Titans game last year.
It's not so much that he lacks arm strength, but rather arm strength endurance. ( McCoy that is.)
When I re watch half of that Tennessee game, because the Browns are not on in Columbus for most of the games and I have little chance to get stuff to watch during the off season ( again, The Browns are not on in Columbus that often.) If that is not a statement on needing a new quarterback what can be?
When I re watch part of that Tenn game, I get so frustrated, I'd take ANY, ANY , I'm talking trade a 1st round pick for T. freaking J. Yates frustrated, ANY strong armed quaterback just to give them a shot.
I re watch that Tennesee game ( Colt disappeard for the whole game?) You read scouting reports on players, defensive linemen who disappear , take plays off, take a whole game off, but the starting quarterback?
I re watch that game, I get so frustrated, I think Josh Freaking Cribbs can be a better Quarterback than Colt McCoy, and given a whole season would win more games.
NOt just to continue to Bash on Colt, but Tannehill has the arm strength and Colt, well he's got alot of problems, ONe of which is his Height, it is not a big deal until you start to think...
why , Why does the Qb's launch point from any pass have to be 17 yards behind the line of scrimmage,? Why , Why does the ball have to travel 20 yards through the air for a 5 yard pass completion? Why, Why does the Qb shotgun 7 yards deep, and take a 7 step drop? Even if he's got a 3 man wall, and no pressure, the center and both guards have locked up any up the middle blitz or pass rush from the defense.
Then I think, it is because he is not tall enough and cannot play insde the pocket.
You bring Tannehill onto the Browns, OR, Christian Ponder, or another quarterback with something similar to those two, and what you'll find is? Well I'm starting to think, if You bring Tannehill onto the Browns, it won't take 3 weeks into the regular season before he clearly takes the job from McCoy.
But again. I don't know what the hades I'm talking about. You can't coach height. You can't coach speed.
Quote: Mourg, on the one hand you say tannehill has been the browns target all along, but on the other hand you say heckert wouldn't draft a WR that high. What gives?
Quote: If you want an example of why the sticking with McCoy is not a winning move just take another look at the Titans game last year.
It's not so much that he lacks arm strength, but rather arm strength endurance. ( McCoy that is.)
When I re watch half of that Tennessee game, because the Browns are not on in Columbus for most of the games and I have little chance to get stuff to watch during the off season ( again, The Browns are not on in Columbus that often.) If that is not a statement on needing a new quarterback what can be?
When I re watch part of that Tenn game, I get so frustrated, I'd take ANY, ANY , I'm talking trade a 1st round pick for T. freaking J. Yates frustrated, ANY strong armed quaterback just to give them a shot.
I re watch that Tennesee game ( Colt disappeard for the whole game?) You read scouting reports on players, defensive linemen who disappear , take plays off, take a whole game off, but the starting quarterback?
I re watch that game, I get so frustrated, I think Josh Freaking Cribbs can be a better Quarterback than Colt McCoy, and given a whole season would win more games.
NOt just to continue to Bash on Colt, but Tannehill has the arm strength and Colt, well he's got alot of problems, ONe of which is his Height, it is not a big deal until you start to think...
why , Why does the Qb's launch point from any pass have to be 17 yards behind the line of scrimmage,? Why , Why does the ball have to travel 20 yards through the air for a 5 yard pass completion? Why, Why does the Qb shotgun 7 yards deep, and take a 7 step drop? Even if he's got a 3 man wall, and no pressure, the center and both guards have locked up any up the middle blitz or pass rush from the defense.
Then I think, it is because he is not tall enough and cannot play insde the pocket.
You bring Tannehill onto the Browns, OR, Christian Ponder, or another quarterback with something similar to those two, and what you'll find is? Well I'm starting to think, if You bring Tannehill onto the Browns, it won't take 3 weeks into the regular season before he clearly takes the job from McCoy.
But again. I don't know what the hades I'm talking about. You can't coach height. You can't coach speed.
It shouldn't be a question of if Tannehill is a better QB than McCoy... it should be about whether or not he's a franchise QB. QB is one position where it's not just good enough to be an upgrade, I'd need serious conviction that the guy I take has good odds to be a star if I'm going to take him at #4. If not, wait until next year for a brand new QB class.
Since the last "elite defense" champion in 2002, these are the names of the QBs who have won Super Bowls: Manning(s), Brady, Brees, Rodgers, Roethlisberger. That's it. The only way I'm taking a guy in the Top 5 is if I think he is likely to one day join those ranks. I'm sorry, but I just don't see that in Tannehill. MAYBE Roethlisberger at best in a perfect scenario but even then, it's not worth the risk at #4 because the odds of that are remote.
Honestly, I'd be flabbergasted if the Browns viewed him in the same light the Tannehill lovers do. We tried to trade 3 1st round picks + extra for RGIII. If we had any conviction at all that Tannehill is a franchise QB, why wouldn't we have just sat on the sidelines and taken him at #4 while saving all those extra picks?
Thankfully this will be all over soon... I don't know how much longer I can deal with the notion that our front office might be angling to make a huge mistake.
Quote: Thanks for the post. The kid is special. Gonna be hard for the QB gurus to take a pass on the kid.
You don't think they already passed on him when they effectively said that it was worth two #1s & more to be able to draft RGIII instead? I'll bet you if Barkley had declared this year, that RGIII offer would have never been made...
Quote: save it for when the Dolphins pass on him too
Ahhhhh....I've said that for two weeks now....Every year a QB falls in the draft, & gets passed on bye all the teams the experts predict will grab him up if he's there, This year it's Tannihill, so many questions....
I don't pimp QBs very often. The last QB that I actually truly believed in was Cutler. I feel Tannehill is just the perfect fit for this offense and this regime. He doesnt have to learn the WCO language. He will have much of our playbook already down pat before he takes his first rep.
he has a year and a half as a starting college QB under his belt and is going to go top 10. The only flaw to his game is experience and folks that is the easiest thing for a player to acquire. just have to let him play. I would put him in there and let him gain that experience.
If we don't no big deal, we suck for another year and hope we suck bad enough to get a decent QB.
yeah, I know, my post was sarcastic. we both have our views on him and at this point I do not expect them to change until we see him play on Sundays.
you focus on the system he played in and the fact he can and did make NFL throws in that system. I focus on that he struggled against any decent college pass defense, he fell apart when things went poorly, and was generally inconsistent compared to other college QBs we are discussing (not to mention his release point, etc - but that stuff can be more easily fixed).
if we draft Tannehill, then I hope like heck I am wrong. if we don't, then we'll all move on.
The Browns couldn't have done more in terms of an evaluation on Tannehill. He was here for two days and went through a private workout with us in Berea. Everyone has had a chance to get to know this guy.
If he's not the pick I will be shocked. Honestly shocked.
Top end tools. Top end smarts. All the size and athleticism you could ask for.
The other options:
Richardson - stiff looking to me and can get caught from behind. Plenty of good RBs in draft. Claiborne - not elite size, speed and we have a very good CB already. Blackmon - not elite size, speed and might be a headcase Kalil - do we draft a RT at 4 overall?
I'm telling you I fully expect Tannehill to be a Cleveland Brown next week.
Any one of Blackmon, Richardson, Claiborne, or Tannehill won't shock me. They will be met with varying levels of disappointment (ascending from left to right.)
What about the part where Tannehill had the seventh-highest completion percentage in his conference? What about him folding in the second half? What about him throwing an unpressured middle screen to a LB for a pick-six?
Trent Richardson has never been caught from behind, going all the way back to pee-wee football according to him.
What is "elite size" for a corner? He's one inch shorter and 4 pounds lighter than Champ Bailey.
Blackmon has elite run-after-catch ability, which is the primary skill for a WCO WR along with catching and getting open. 232 catches, >3300 yards, and 38 TDs over the last two seasons say he can do that.
I think Richardson's best case scenario is to have a career on the level of Ray Rice and Maurice Jones-Drew.
Excellent backs that do not have elite top end speed. I would enjoy watching either of those players playing for the Browns.
Claiborne and Kalil both should be valued lower for us because we have a very good CB1 and a HoF LT.
Blackmon I like a lot. More than most here. But he has question marks that are obvious. Character concerns, DUI, and does not have elite athleticism at the position. I have compared him to another WR that I love in Hakeem Nicks. Would love to have him on the Browns.
Bottom line is a top end QB who has years of experience in the same very complex offense that we run.
Top end, really? I want my top end QB to be able to start day one. Tannehill cannot start day one.
Yes, he has years of experience in this offense. But he only started 19 games. His years of experience are nothing compared to someone like Andrew Luck, who was a quarterback in the west coast offense for four years.
Not as complex at all. But I can guarantee you Luck knows a whole bunch more than Tannehill. I was watching the Gruden/Luck QB camp show and thinking to myself, "Luck was the perfect fit."
I have seen more than a few people state that if H&H select a QB in round 1 and especially at 4 that they are tied to the success or failure of that guy. If they are going to tie themselves to a QB do people really think Tannehill would be that guy? They have the luxury right now to build this team up around the QB and the Built in excuse that they went after a guy and couldn't swing it and can stick with McCoy for a year to see how he does and if need be get their guy next year. They can say they didn't have Tannehill rated in the top of their draft and wanted to go in a different direction than Weeden and no one can argue. They put themselves in a much better position if they need a guy next year for him to be successful than to draft a guy this year and play him with a 1/4 to 1/2 of the guys around him being rookies or second year players.
I think it is 4/24. And after watching it I will wonder to myself, "Why isn't Tannehill going #1?"
Gruden makes all of these guys look like the best QB's ever (besides Kellen Moore and Case Keenum). Is it good TV? Yes. Should it be used as an evaluation tool? No.
On a side note, Gruden called Case Keenum "Cam" multiple times.
Quote: Top end, really? I want my top end QB to be able to start day one. Tannehill cannot start day one.
Yes, he has years of experience in this offense. But he only started 19 games. His years of experience are nothing compared to someone like Andrew Luck, who was a quarterback in the west coast offense for four years.
That is why Luck will go #1 and Tannehill will go #4. Tannehill really has a little over 1 year as a starter. He needs time under center. I start him and allow him to learn as he goes.
I don't give a lot of weight to the fact that we tried to get RG3 so can't have any interest in someone else. Just cause you bid higher on something and end up with your next pick doesn't mean you don't think it's an upgrade, it just means you thought your odds were better trying to get what you thought was the best.
The cost difference is huge, even if we spend our 4th on a QB. I love the fact that he can show the WR how to run a route properly cause he did that very well for two years. He has more starts than Sanchez had and I would trade the Jets back for what we got for Sanchez. It might take a little more time but if the braintrust thinks he has IT, then I'm all in where ever they take him.
Quote: Give me the scoop! Will have to find it when I get home then and tape it.
Did he impress?
Actually I should have disclaimed that.. I saw a snippet of it on NFL news. Gruden talked to him about playing WR and making the transition to QB, he had him diagram a play on the board and show his progression, then he went out and Gruden bet him that he couldn't complete this one pass route 3 times in a row... to a guy in shorts who was not covered then acted amazed when he did it.
Funny thing is Browns fans will love the play he diagrammed, I forget what it was called but it had a WR on each side doing a deep route, a guy crossing over the middle, a guy crossing the other way under him, then the RB in the flats.. his 3 read progression was the crossing route, the shorter crossing route and the guy in the flats.... the WRs running down each sideline were not a part of his read AT ALL in the play he diagrammed... so maybe he will fit in here.
I didn't really have a problem with the ball placement. I'm not expert but they were all catchable and should be caught by NFL wide receivers. I'm not going to complain that a ball was a foot higher than perfect on a 30 yard throw.
I did notice that the double move route they were running took about 3.5 to 4 seconds to come open and I was wondering if we could give him the time to run that play here on a regular basis.
I have watched every single one of those and Tannehill was by far the not sure what word to use..but slow and not in depth. Watch the other ones if you want a good barometer on where he stacked up. Russel Wilson knew the languages of both offenses, Luck was amazing, Griffin gave you an idea about how the offense is a free for all and to me seemed to be winging it, Kellen Moore really impressed me and that personalized and different Boise State offense, Cousins was good..It didn't flow for Tannehill and you can tell he was thinking about it..Most of the other guys drew Backers told you what scenarios would cause them to switch their routes or if they should go inside or outside..I really enjoyed the show and it is only a show, but I think the kid has a lot to learn. I like Tannehill, I just wish he wasn't going to be overdrafted as he could use a solid year or two to sit.
I thought they were perfect because if there was a defender on his hip and a safety coming over to help the ball is where neither has a chance to catch it and your receiver can easily go up and make it.
Quote: I think it is 4/24. And after watching it I will wonder to myself, "Why isn't Tannehill going #1?"
Gruden makes all of these guys look like the best QB's ever (besides Kellen Moore and Case Keenum). Is it good TV? Yes. Should it be used as an evaluation tool? No.
On a side note, Gruden called Case Keenum "Cam" multiple times.
The Gruden camp crap is a joke that's contrived for television. However, the one thing it does provide is some Q&A stuff with the QB's which gives a little insight into their personalities.
I hated Clausen when he was coming out, and liked him even less after I saw him on Gruden's show. That's the only thing I've ever gotten out of Chuckie's QB love-fest.
He did struggle mightily with that throw but Gruden was messed up. Inside Kirk asked him about 3&5 I believe and then they get outside he is saying 3&3 or something along those lines..I don't think Cousins knew exactly where he wanted to throw it. Kirk was trying to be a good student and ask him and I think Gruden confused him..But I don't even think they showed many up close or where it was caught or what the throw looked like..I know the one guy nailed the camera.
Had all the right answers. Was coached well in what to say. Sounded like Bayless was trying to set him up against Weeden but Tannehill didn't take the bait. He was a little quick to turn it back on himself and profess his self-confidence.
I dunno. I don't see a star in him. He shouldn't go as high as he will go, but stands a decent chance of becoming a solid starter if the team that over-pays for him has the balls to sit him and let him develop. He's gotta have the Steve McNair/ Philip Rivers blueprint or he's going to fail.
Posted by Michael David Smith on April 19, 2012, 1:00 PM EDT Dolphins General Manager Jeff Ireland talked up Texas A&M quarterback Ryan Tannehill today, but he also sounded a note of caution about just how aggressive Miami might be to acquire him.
“He’s a great kid. He’s smart, tough, has a good family background,” Ireland said of Tannehill.
But Ireland also made clear that the Dolphins are going to stick to their draft board and take the player they think is the best, and they’re not going to feel any sense of desperation about either trading up for Tannehill or taking him with the eighth overall pick.
“There are times you should go after a first-round quarterback, but you shouldn’t be pressured into it,” Ireland said.
There’s been talk that Tannehill has climbed up draft boards since the season ended, but Ireland said the Dolphins’ draft board more or less has the same players in the same places now as they did at the end of the college football season.
“Very few change drastically,” Ireland said.
This year’s draft clearly has two elite quarterback prospects in Andrew Luck and Robert Griffin III, followed by four players who have separated themselves from the pack in USC left tackle Matt Kalil, Alabama running back Trent Richardson, LSU cornerback Morris Claiborne and Oklahoma State receiver Justin Blackmon. Tannehill is the wild card near the top of the draft.
That’s seven players, which might indicate that the Dolphins are in a position where they’re likely to miss out on all the elite prospects with the eighth overall pick. But Ireland is expressing confidence.
“There are certainly some glaring things that are hitting me this year,” Ireland said. “I have a pretty good idea of what I want at No. 8.”
Quote: Them trading up for him was really too much to ask for.
How weird that nobody wants to trade up for Tannehill. Right? I mean he has more upside than Luck and RGIII combined, you'd think teams would be trying to trade up and take him. I'm starting to think the Colts might take him first overall, he just has soooooooooooo much potential.
Quote: My tea leaves say the Dolphins call the Browns bluff on Tannehill and let him fall to 8. Them trading up for him was really too much to ask for.
I think the Browns will trade down to 6, take Tannehill at 6, and then offer him in a trade to the dolphins for 8 and a 1 next year. Where they either keep Tannehill, or look for Weeden at 22.
For what it's worth, it seems one of the biggest knocks on Tannehill is the number of starts at QB (22 - although he played in 25). Just for comparison (again take from it what you will), I looked up Kosar's college #s.
G YDS TD INT Kosar 23 5,971 40 29 Tannehill 25 5,382 42 21
I haven't seen enough of Tannehill (other than highlight films, which can be skewed) to say yea or nay to drafting him. I for one, just found this comparison interesting.
I'm concerned about his completion percentage. I'm concerned about his QB rating relative to other QBs in his conference. I'm concerned about his top trait being his "familiarity with our system" but most of his completed passes are out of the shotgun. I'm concerned about his team's history of blowing games in the second half. I'm concerned about his team never living up to expectations. I'm concerned about him losing his team's QB competition to Jerrod Johnson. I'm concerned about him melting down when things start to go wrong.
Had all the right answers. Was coached well in what to say. Sounded like Bayless was trying to set him up against Weeden but Tannehill didn't take the bait. He was a little quick to turn it back on himself and profess his self-confidence.
I dunno. I don't see a star in him. He shouldn't go as high as he will go, but stands a decent chance of becoming a solid starter if the team that over-pays for him has the balls to sit him and let him develop. He's gotta have the Steve McNair/ Philip Rivers blueprint or he's going to fail.
Was it just me or did Skip Bayless try to do his best Gruden Camp routine?
Posted by Mike Florio on April 20, 2012, 5:15 PM EDT
With the top two quarterbacks in the 2012 rookie class destined to be the first two picks in the 2012 draft (barring something entirely unexpected in the next six days), the player to whom the most uncertainty and intrigue attaches for round one is Texas A&M quarterback Ryan Tannehill.
He could go anywhere from No. 3 (if the Vikings trade down) to No. 15 (if the Eagles take him or trade down). Seahawks G.M. John Schneider recently has said he expects Tannehill to be gone by the time Seattle exercises the 12th pick in the draft. However, there’s one specific factor that could push Tannehill out of the top 10.
Under the new CBA, a team may sign its first-round pick to a four-year contract with an option for a fifth year. The salary for the fifth year is based on a formula that hinges on whether the player is picked in the top 10 or the next 22.
For the top 10, the salary is determined by calculating the average of the 10 highest-paid players at the pick’s position in the prior season. For the next 22, the number is determined by calculating the average salary of the third-highest paid player at the position through the 25th highest paid player at the position in the prior season.
It’s a potentially huge difference, especially at the quarterback position. And, by 2016, it could be a gigantic number for Tannehill, given that the 10 highest-paid quarterbacks make considerably more money than No. 3 through No. 25 on the cap-number list.
And so, after Tannehill’s fourth season in the NFL, a team that takes him in the top 10 would have to be ready to give him elite quarterback money in year five, regardless of whether he’s playing at an elite level. Complicating matters is the possibility that Tannehill, a converted receiver, will need a year or two on the bench before being ready to play, giving a top-10 team even less time to assess whether Tannehill deserves top-10 quarterback money for 2016.
This year, the Chiefs hold the No. 11 selection in round one, and G.M. Scott Pioli recently pointed out the value that comes from the shift in the fifth-year calculation that applies at that spot. I also addressed the situation during Friday’s PFT Live, and I misspoke regarding the precise difference between the top 10 picks and the next 22. I incorrectly said that the top 10 players get the franchise tender under the fifth-year option. It’s actually the transition number.
Tannehill also appeared on PFT Live today. And I didn’t get into these nuances with him; it wouldn’t be good for the guest to fall asleep during the interview.
Still, it’s an important factor that could cause a team in the top 10 to ultimately pass on Tannehill. If a team in the top 10 still takes him, that team is buying itself a potentially significant dilemma for the 2016 season.
"I think this guy is a top-10 talent at QB, but I'm not going to draft him because his 5th-year salary will be too high." Couldn't be any other reason.
I dont know how that would have the least bit of influence on drafting a QB. Noone is going to draft a QB top 10 unless they feel he is going to be a top 10 QB in a few years. If he isn't they will be looking for his replacement and will dump him. If he hits woo hoo.
Teams drafted these top 10 QBs when it was costing them 65 million for 5 years. Now they are getting a #1 for something like 22 mil.
Oh wait...no I didn't, and furthermore, that's one of the most ridiculous premises I've ever seen as to why a player will fall out of the top-10.
If you believe in Tannehill, you believe in Tannehill. You won't pass on him because of some 5th year to his contract, a year that he'll likely never see. If he rocks, he'll get a new deal before then, and if he's a pud, he'll be long-gone.
Someone needed another draft story in a bad way and didn't think that one through.
I took some time to do a little research of information concerning Tannehill. I wanted to look at how he performed in some of his tougher games.
I broke the games down according to the ranking of each teams pass defense and how each defense ranking in 120 teams ranked in NCAA division 1 stats. I included the Bowl game against Northwestern.
team.....pass def rnk....cp/att....yds......%......td/int...rating.................... TEXAS......#42............20/49....224.....40.8.....2/3......80.4.......L 27-25... N WEST....#71............27/40....329.....67.5.....1/1....139.8......W 33-22... OK............#79............32/64....379.....50.0.....2/3....100.7......L 41-25.... K ST.........#103...........27/46....210.....58.7.....3/1....114.2......L 53-50 ot.. OK ST......#107............28/47....309.....59.6.....2/3.....116.1.....L 30-29...
note...Texas' pass defense would rank 7th in the Big Ten ...".....Northwestern's pass defense ranked "last" in the Big Ten ...".....Northwestern's pass defense would have ranked "4th best" in Big 12 conf.
I'm sure every scouting dept. and front office in the NFL is aware of the quality of pass defenses Tannehill faced last season. His stats, just like any QB who plays in the Big 12, are going to be "padded", due to the poor quality of the pass defenses each QB faced in 2011.
Tannehill had decent game against Northwestern in the Bowl game, but NW was the worst pass defense in the Big Ten. It has to be more difficult to judge a QB when the level of competition (pass defense) that QB is facing is weak, overall.
The last game of the regular season, against the best pass defense in the Big 12, Tannehill had his worst game of the season...20/49..224yds..40.8 comp%.....2 tds and 3 ints......80.4 qb rating.
NRTU but people act like 2010 didn't exist for some reason. Texas A&M beat Baylor that year too. And #11 Oklahoma and #9 Nebraska.
He had a completion percentage of 65%.
And for anyone questioning his completion percentage just take a look at the Northwestern bowl game highlights. I don't know if I've ever seen more drops in a single game.
I said it in another thread and I'll say it here again. If he's there at 22 I'd take him. At 4 there are much safer picks and you can't afford to miss on top 5 picks. We've been down that road before.
Posted by Mike Florio on April 23, 2012, 9:08 AM EDT
It’s Monday morning, so part of my routine includes taking a look at Peter King’s Monday Morning Quarterback on SI.com.
Over the last two years, MMQB has become even more intriguing for me personally because I spend every Sunday during the regular season with Peter, and I see how hard he works on the column and how much care and sweat and emotion he puts into harvesting information and presenting it in an 8,000-word manifesto on the biggest stories in the NFL at that moment. From Week One through Week 17, there’s no natural transition for Peter between Sunday night and Monday morning because he doesn’t sleep until the sun is up.
And of course I’m being a little extra effusive in my praise of Peter’s efforts today because there’s something in Peter’s latest offering that has pushed the pendulum in PFT’s direction regarding our Sunday night report that Dolphins owner Stephen Ross is pushing the team to take quarterback Ryan Tannehill with the eighth overall selection in the 2012 draft.
The Dolphins reacted in animated fashion to the report, with a “very, very, very highly placed source” telling Armando Salguero of the Miami Herald that the report isn’t true.
King writes that he heard over the weekend that Ross indeed wants Tannehill, and that the punctuation mark was supplied on Monday. “[T]his morning, I got a call from someone saying Florio was right on,” King writes. “Ross wants the quarterback.”
Peter also points out that Tannehill’s former college coach, who coincidentally now serves as Miami’s offensive coordinator, isn’t pushing for Tannehill as aggressively as believed. Publicly, Mike Sherman has compared his former pupil’s confidence level to Brett Favre and Aaron Rodgers; privately, per King, Sherman isn’t standing on the table for Tannehill.
The fact that the Dolphins responded so swiftly and so forcefully could be evidence of frustration that yet another piece of evidence of organizational dysfunction has trickled out of the building. Regardless of the motivation, reacting aggressively to the report sets a precedent that will cause future reports regarding the team to seem true if the Dolphins say nothing.
In this particular case, the fact that they said something opened the door for Peter to confirm that there’s a lot more than nothing to the notion that Ross is nudging the football people to take Tannehill.
Quote: Next few days will be interesting with the stories coming out. This is soap opera week.
yessir. lots of gossip and only 0.00001% of it true this week. basically, anything that comes out new this week should be considered false until it happens for real
Quote: Next few days will be interesting with the stories coming out. This is soap opera week.
The one that has me is Leslie Frazier of the Vikings coming out right now and saying that left tackle isn't a "game changer."
Now I'm more certain than I ever was that the Vikings are going to take him, only because there isn't a really strong trade market so the Vike's will be stuck with Kalil.
We're nearing the point where the smokescreen's and games are finished...
Soap opera weekly lol. Browns Jags rumors have been going for months with the Jags supposedly looking to trade up and now it is Browns looking to trade up to 22 lol. there will be a million of those types of rumors this week. Everytime one teams is looking to move up 10 minutes later they will be looking to move down.
Miami and the Browns both looking to trade up to #3. Browns targeting Blackmon & Weeden. Browns will take Richardson. Holmgren wants Tannehill. Lerner wants a QB. Browns worked out Brockers for Phily and Phily worked out Tannehill for the Browns. Eagles trading up to 4. Cowboys trading up to 4. Browns targetting Doug Martin. Browns targeting Merciless. Browns targeting Gilmore. I mean damn almost all of those rumors have come within the last week.
I have never seen this much stuff about a team picking 4th lmao it is crazy.
Still think it's between Richardson and Claiborne.
The only difference is I now think it's 51/49 Claiborne instead of Richardson.
Clairborne, WR, RB, RT ... with a trade up in there somewhere because of a guy they really like. Could be a good haul. Just depends on who those other names are.
Haden and Claiborne w/ Patterson and Skrine. We might finally be putting the pieces together for a really nice D. Sometime in the next couple of years we get our Patrick Willis and we might start beating the Steelers and Ravens once in awhile. No knock on DQ. But to have a Ray Lewis/Patrick Willis type would be awesome.
Quote: if the owner truly doesn't believe the guy who coached the QB in college the past 4 years, then he is a complete maroon.
however, I think this story is make believe.
However if Tannehill goes to the Dolphins, then it put this rumor in the background of their selection ... True or not.
You just know that a percentage of Dolphin fans will say that he was Ross's pick. Probably the same ones who have some one other then Tannehill on their wish list.
Or my head will explode, damn your eyes! (Where's that middle-finger smiley when I need it!)
Quote: Mourg: I have never seen this much stuff about a team picking 4th lmao it is crazy.
While true, there's at least a reasonable explanation for it...
It's not every year when the first two teams are locked in to their QB's so soon. It's almost as if Luck and Griffin are outside of this draft, where it effectively has been the Vikings picking #1 and the Browns #2 for a month now.
And who says losing out the previous year doesn't pay
Tannehill may join Quinn and Rodgers, slide out of Top 20 Posted by Michael David Smith on April 24, 2012, 11:53 AM EDT Meineke Car Care of Texas Bowl - Texas A&M v Northwestern Getty Images
Two of the deepest draft-day slides in recent memory came from a pair of quarterbacks, Brady Quinn in 2007 and Aaron Rodgers in 2005, who fell all the way out of the Top 20. At least one NFL executive thinks a third quarterback could join that group on Thursday night.
Texas A&M’s Ryan Tannehill will be the third quarterback off the board, after Andrew Luck and Robert Griffin III, but he could fall much further than most people expect, according to an executive who talked to Ian Rapoport of NFL.com.
“The one that’s gonna shake things up is Tannehill,” the high-ranking AFC personnel chief said. “I don’t think a lot of teams think of him as a first-round pick. I can see a situation where he doesn’t go at all in the top 20. That’s really going to change things. You got a guy who started for a year and a half. He hasn’t really been, from a team perspective, a winning quarterback. He’s got good numbers, there’s a lot of things there (to like). But they lost a lot of games in the fourth quarter. Why is he not pulling things out? Why are they losing games?”
If “a lot of teams” view Tannehill as less than a first-round pick, that could be a problem for him. However, it only takes one team to pull the trigger on Tannehill high in the first round. Many observers think the Dolphins — whose offensive coordinator, Mike Sherman, was Tannehill’s college coach — will be that team that takes Tannehill at No. 8. So Miami could be the team that stops Tannehill from falling too far.
The flip side of that is if the Dolphins pass on Tannehill, it could scare other teams away. That’s a scenario being floated by another NFL decision maker.
“If Miami doesn’t grab him, and they got Mike Sherman there, the teams behind them are going to start questioning, what the hell are we doing taking him?” he said. “If his own coach won’t take him, why are we taking him?”
Tannehill will hope that’s a question no one needs to ask on Thursday night. web page
Man if we could walk out of the draft with Richardson at 4 and Tannehill at 22 woooo hoooo. When reports came out that the Phins owner was pushing Tannehill, I thought that might be enough to talk them out of taking him lol Soft skinned owner and GM. Chiefs will go Poe or Decastro. Seahawks have probably already printed up Kuechly jerseys. Phins pass we could get him at 22.
Quote: Man if we could walk out of the draft with Richardson at 4 and Tannehill at 22 woooo hoooo. When reports came out that the Phins owner was pushing Tannehill, I thought that might be enough to talk them out of taking him lol Soft skinned owner and GM. Chiefs will go Poe or Decastro. Seahawks have probably already printed up Kuechly jerseys. Phins pass we could get him at 22.
I don't think it will really matter Mourg if the stuff that is being said is true. If we don't have him with a first round grade, Heckert was pretty clear about not straying from the board. That doesn't even take into consideration where they presumably have Weeden and Tanny respectively on their board. I think that the apple of their eye is reuniting Blackmon and Weeden.
You will like him after he posts multiple 100 plus yard receiving games and is a difference in our offensive output and win total. It's a toss up between Weeden and Tannehill and I guess they like Weeden more. Neither are first round QBs so it is irrelevant.
I honestly do not see why anyone would consider Blackmon as a 1st round prospect. He isn't big and he isn't fast and he drops a lot of balls. Mangini would have loved him lol.
I don't understand where you get he drops a lot of balls. Have you happened to notice how many receptions he has had? Jerry Rice wasn't big or fast but he excelled in the WCO and so will Blackmon. He plays big and fast..don't get yourself too wrapped up in combine stuff. When you turn the tape on that is what matters. I don't see how you can think so highly of Tannehill but don't consider the best Receiver in College football a first rounder. There is not one GM that agrees with that assessment. He is a playmaker and a game changer and scores TD's. Everything that Heckert and Holmgren want. Roddy White is 6'1 and 207 and ran a 4.45 40. He leads the league in drops but also hauls in a ton of passes and scores TD's and changes games.
Posted by Michael David Smith on April 24, 2012, 11:53 AM EDT Two of the deepest draft-day slides in recent memory came from a pair of quarterbacks, Brady Quinn in 2007 and Aaron Rodgers in 2005, who fell all the way out of the Top 20. At least one NFL executive thinks a third quarterback could join that group on Thursday night.
Texas A&M’s Ryan Tannehill will be the third quarterback off the board, after Andrew Luck and Robert Griffin III, but he could fall much further than most people expect, according to an executive who talked to Ian Rapoport of NFL.com.
“The one that’s gonna shake things up is Tannehill,” the high-ranking AFC personnel chief said. “I don’t think a lot of teams think of him as a first-round pick. I can see a situation where he doesn’t go at all in the top 20. That’s really going to change things. You got a guy who started for a year and a half. He hasn’t really been, from a team perspective, a winning quarterback. He’s got good numbers, there’s a lot of things there (to like). But they lost a lot of games in the fourth quarter. Why is he not pulling things out? Why are they losing games?”
If “a lot of teams” view Tannehill as less than a first-round pick, that could be a problem for him. However, it only takes one team to pull the trigger on Tannehill high in the first round. Many observers think the Dolphins — whose offensive coordinator, Mike Sherman, was Tannehill’s college coach — will be that team that takes Tannehill at No. 8. So Miami could be the team that stops Tannehill from falling too far.
The flip side of that is if the Dolphins pass on Tannehill, it could scare other teams away. That’s a scenario being floated by another NFL decision maker.
“If Miami doesn’t grab him, and they got Mike Sherman there, the teams behind them are going to start questioning, what the hell are we doing taking him?” he said. “If his own coach won’t take him, why are we taking him?”
Tannehill will hope that’s a question no one needs to ask on Thursday night.
I'm not a Tannehill fan at all but if he fell to #22, I'd really, really consider it... especially if we're looking to make the epic Weeden mistake in the 2nd round otherwise.
Hell he had drops at the combines and at his proday, so don't act like I make this stuff up. He had a lot of drops throughout the year as well. As for measurables, when you take a receiver in the top 5 you are drafting an elite receiver so shouldnt an elite receiver be big, fast strong and have very good hands. Getting a free release in college against 165lb corners doesnt work in the NFL.
Quote: Hell he had drops at the combines and at his proday, so don't act like I make this stuff up. He had a lot of drops throughout the year as well. As for measurables, when you take a receiver in the top 5 you are drafting an elite receiver so shouldnt an elite receiver be big, fast strong and have very good hands. Getting a free release in college against 165lb corners doesnt work in the NFL.
Neither does throwing against Defenses that have them or are ranked in the bottom of the NCAA but that doesn't stop you from pimping Tannehill. You take a guy on what he has done at college and what he can bring to your team and how it translates. I will say it again..Roddy White is 6'1 207 and ran a 4.45. He was drafted in the first round and has been to 3 Pro Bowls and is a First team All Pro. The theory you have about Blackmon not translating to the NFL or that you have to be a certain size to be selected in the top 5 is borderline Al Davis mentality.
I think Blackmon has All-Pro upside. I am worried about peripheral stuff but not worried about his production on a football field.
He doesn't have elite height, size or athleticism. But he has a certain je ne sais quoi that I'll call electricity with the football in his hands that would be lethal in the WCO.
By the way...
How awesome would it be if we had Torrey Smith right now what a perfect complimentary pair that would be.
Some good stuff. His intelligence just jumps out at you. Kid is going to be a very good one at the next level. Seeing those 18 yard out routes are just wow when our QB cant throw the 7 yarder.
Quote: Some good stuff. His intelligence just jumps out at you. Kid is going to be a very good one at the next level. Seeing those 18 yard out routes are just wow when our QB cant throw the 7 yarder.
Actually that is the part I didn't see was his intelligence. I watched every one of those QB Camps and Tannehill took longer and was less in depth than any other QB. Luck has intelligence that jumps out at you, Griffin seemed like he was winging it. We all know McCoy can throw the 7 yard out and the 25 yard out.
Quote: Some good stuff. His intelligence just jumps out at you. Kid is going to be a very good one at the next level. Seeing those 18 yard out routes are just wow when our QB cant throw the 7 yarder.
Actually that is the part I didn't see was his intelligence. I watched every one of those QB Camps and Tannehill took longer and was less in depth than any other QB. Luck has intelligence that jumps out at you, Griffin seemed like he was winging it. We all know McCoy can throw the 7 yard out and the 25 yard out.
+1 I saw what you saw. I don't see the intelligence factor/experience.
As far as Blackmon... Mourg.. what is elite size and speed to you? The kid is 6'1" something and caught 260 balls the past few years in college, ran 4.45. He is strong and is known for being physically dominant over corners. Not sure why u hating so much but steady pimping a guy w no experience and rated 3rd best QB in is conference.
rated 3rd-best QB in his conference in this draft class you mean? Because he had the 6th(!)-highest QB rating for Big XII QBs and the 7th-highest completion percentage in the Big XII this year.
Quote: I honestly do not see why anyone would consider Blackmon as a 1st round prospect. He isn't big and he isn't fast and he drops a lot of balls. Mangini would have loved him lol.
I see him as a 1st round propspect....I'd take him at 22, not at #4.
And we won't. We will take Richardson at #4 unless somebody trades with the Vikes...which will probably happen.....we seem to be good at getting "Skinned" at the last minute....yes, pun intended.
I think Homie hired Heck so he didn't have the fastest face in the complex.
1. Tooting the ol' horn here. Gruden highlighted the throw that I highlighted back for those that were looking for top of Round 1 tape. 7 step drop against Baylor on an 18 yard out route. Money. Freakin money. Looks like Tom Brady jumped in an A&M jersey for a series. Seriously man it doesn't get any better at the college level right there on that throw.
2. His intelligence and passion for the game are obvious. 34 on the Wonderlic. Pre-Med major...that's not screwing around in college in some basketweaving field. Been in the West Coast offense for 4 years. Some of which spent at WR. Man I'm telling you he must have just had Childress, Shurmur and the rest of the staff in Berea grinning ear to ear going over things a couple weekends ago.
3. Far hash wide side Winstons. I learned a new term today. It's a 10-12 yard out route and the ball is traveling .... hold on
A little over a 90 foot throw that has to be delivered with a ton of velocity. If it's not then it will be intercepted.
This throw does not exist at the NFL level due to the narrow width of the hashes.
If Tannehill can make this throw there is absolutely no throw he cannot make in the Browns WCO.
Seriously that's a big boy throw.
McCoy cannot dream of making that throw.
I honestly believe he was the best intermediate thrower of the football that I've seen in college last year. From the tape I've seen.
4. The kid is built like a horse. If you wanted to create a QB to be durable it looks like you could do worse than create this guy.
He has the willingness to throw bullets in the midst of an A gap blitz that he knows is coming. That's something that not a lot of guys have. Tom Brady doesn't have it. Aaron Rodgers doesn't have it. Eli Manning doesn't have it. Roethlisberger does. Man it sucks that he went to the Squeelers. Anyway if you can deliver a throw in the face of an unaccounted A Gap blitzer then you're tough as nails.
He's a big boy with elite NFL QB wheels. That's pretty sweet.
5. He's got some room for improvement. Still don't like the way he throws the short stuff. It's imminently correctable. He's still green at the QB position. You could tell that on the CBs sitting on those outs. They went over that in detail and I loved the Jerry Rice 26 yard out comments...smart man that Jerry Rice. Make that guy get out of his backpedal even if it's to establish a future route. Wish we had guys like that on our team.
Anyway there's upside to his game. He's not a finished product at the position like McCoy was and that's fine.
But he brings elite tools, elite durability and elite athleticism to the table. Does he have that charismatic aura that RG3 has? No.
I think that's what Holmgren and Heckert fell in love with with RG3.
Because I see a better football player in Tannehill.
Every single media type is saying we are taking Richardson and we may very well do so but man, I could not pass on this kid for a RB. would love to wake up Sunday morning and have Tannehill, Jonathon Martin, Alshon Jeffery and Lamichael James as the newest members of the Browns. Now if we could figure out a way to add Whitney Merciless in there it would be even better lol.
We are drafting a QB in the top 10 that MAY be a potential franchise QB, that needs to develop for at least a year, while the front office is saying that 6-10 is not acceptable next year?
If they draft Tannehill in the top 10, they better start packing their bags, because they are going 3-13 next year.
Especially when you could probably trade UP from 22 and get Tannehill.
I've been a bit of a Tannehill basher as you can see by my sig....I shouldn't say basher, I should say against him with the #4 pick.
I won't pretend to know if that is impressive or not....I would hope a QB could describe routes, know the plays he ran 100s of times over the past 3-4 years. I do like the fact that he has arm strength and is atheltic...In our division, I think it is imperative you have both of those.
My concern and what a lot of people knock is the decision making....are there instances where this has been a big concern coming into the league and it worked out??? honest question
From the show, my concern would be his confidence and leadership....kind of seemed like a dud. Didn't look Gruden in the eye, got red a lot, didn't have that "IT" type of factor you'd like to see when someone walks in the room...(like him or not...like an RGIII). With a team like the Browns and the way the fans turn on you after a season or so, I'd be concerned he'd lose his confidence pretty easily and start that rock rolling downhill.
He can start Day 1 and is better equipped than RG3 to start Day 1.
That's what I'm saying.
My preference would be that he not start Day 1 so that he could see NFL defenses from the sidelines, watch the team prepare for opposing defenses, get some NFL level film study under his belt and get a feel for the AFC North before he's in there slinging it.
It's probably not going to happen like that though.
Just my preference.
But he could start a game Sunday for the Browns if he absolutely had to. That's one of the facets that makes Tannehill so unique.
He played in the WCO for 4 years as a WR and QB. And we're running the vanilla WCO.
The other QBs...could they start Sunday for the Browns....
Weeden couldn't. Cousins couldn't. RG3 couldn't. etc.
The NFL draft is this week and former Oklahoma State quarterback Brandon Weeden is determined to show that despite being the oldest quarterback in the group, he might be one of the most accurate.
Weeden took the spotlight on "Sport Science" this week to show off his accuracy and velocity by hitting moving clay pigeons with a football. According to the show, Weeden's throws were going 48 miles per hour.
Yeah, it's as awesome as it sounds.
Weeden said on Twitter it took him seven tries to hit the first one, but after that, he hits four of five, which is a pretty spectacular feat.
I see what you're saying on the getting red and stumbling a bit.
He's probably nervous and obviously is not the ultra confident, swagger, I wear children's superhero socks and I can pull it off type of guy.
I think it's easy to buy in to that type of guy.
But Tannehill has some things going for him that RG3 doesn't have.
He knows the WCO cold. You could tell with him talking to another WCO coach in Gruden. Man you could tell that Gruden enjoyed talking offense with him because they spoke the same language. He even noted it saying that Tannehill could walk into a QB meeting today and be ready to go.
He's also rugged. I have worries about RG3 and his running around with his head cut off plays that Vick gets injured trying to pull off. He got hurt in college doing it and he's going to miss games in the NFL doing it. The AFC North is probably the least forgiving for that kind of QB play
Quote: He's also rugged. I have worries about RG3 and his running around with his head cut off plays that Vick gets injured trying to pull off.
Except that's not what RG3 does.
RG3 didn't get to play behind a line that allowed 8 sacks and minimal pressure like Tannehill did. RG3 played behind a sieve. He had to learn to move in, and out of the pocket. He wasn't a run the ball type QB, (except mostly on called runs) but used his feet to escape pressure while still keeping his eyes down the field to make a play with his arm.
I saw very little "running around like a chicken with its head cut off". He moved away from pressure and made plays with his arm. The guy he most resembled to he was a Ben Roethlisberger in this regard. He'd get pressure, and would move using his feet, maintain his vision down the field, and burn a team deep.
I really don't get the Tannehill love. I watched a ton of his video, and he looks like a competent college QB, but I just don't see special talent there. He's a below average QB in his conference. He's OK at a lot of stuff. I just don't see special anywhere. He's not special in his accuracy, nor with his arm. He's not special reading a defense, nor throwing receivers open. He's .... OK .... but that's really all. He's probably better than McCoy, but I can't really say that he's a hug upgrade at this point. He throws a ton of screens. He throws a ton of short stuff. That's fine, because he'll do that in the NFL too ..... but I don't see the special throws down the field. He's an OK QB ...... and I just don't see an "OK" QB going #4 in a draft.
What bothers me most about both these guys (Weeden and Tannehill) is some of the throws ( a bunch) they make during the games and especially under pressure.. is they way they just throw it into tight double and triple coverage, off their back foot. The ball has ZERO chance of getting caught and most of the time they were picks. Many, many times they seemed to make up their mind to throw to a certain receiver NO MATTER what and didn't even look elsewhere. I don't want them afraid to throw into tight coverage but MAN.. you gotta know when to eat the ball too.
Watch this game with an open mind. Who would you rather have at QB for the Browns?
It's dangerous to draw conclusions from one game. But just watch and make up your own mind.
The Tannehill throw that I mentioned previously is at 6:40. It's as good a college throw as you'll see.
There's another big time back shoulder throw under duress at 4:28 that's worth noting. He sees two guys bearing down on him. Knows he's going to get hit. Yet there's no "protect the body and duck" reaction from Tannehill. Impressive.
Quote: What bothers me most about both these guys (Weeden and Tannehill) is some of the throws ( a bunch) they make during the games and especially under pressure.. is they way they just throw it into tight double and triple coverage, off their back foot. The ball has ZERO chance of getting caught and most of the time they were picks.
If people would watch the video's of Weeden they'd see how poor he is when he doesn't have a perfect pocket to throw from.
1st round QB? GMAFB.
I hate siding with McShay, but he noted something that should resonate with EVERY Browns fan: Of the top-7 QB's in this draft, Weeden ranked dead-last in terms of QB rating when faced wit pressure.
Dead. Freaking. Last.
And Weeden is going to be 29 in his rookie season. And Weeden has no idea how to read an NFL defense because he's never seen one. And Weeden has never run a pro-style offense because he's never been in one.
Here's how little I think of the idea of gambling on Weeden with any of our first several picks:
Here's how little I think of the idea of gambling on Weeden with any of our first several picks:
I'd rather take Tannehill at 4.
That's pretty little conerning your signature has been for 3 weeks, Tannehill at 4 would be a reach of biblical proportions.
... It's like, I read these statements from Heckert, or other Browns personel, and I think I get an idea of what they think by the way they word their answers and now I have to sweat it out for 40 hours or so until the Browns are on the clock.
Incidentaly the " " " days without embaresment as a Browns fan clock" " " has been counting since the day the Skins traded for pick #2.
I just hope nobody steals this opportunity to improve out from under this teams noses. What time does the draft start? 6pm eastern, 7 or 8.
Quote: Tannehill: I'm convinced he is a winner. I have no concerns.
what did he win exactly? he lost a QB competition with a new HC (so no ties to old regime QBs). he went 7-6 in 2011 where 3 of those wins were SMU, Idaho, and Kansas.
perhaps there was a wing-eating contest on campus where he proved he was a winner?
Danielson needs to be checked out at a local "Happy Place". I might try this next year.
If that's the case, then Weeden becomes the most likely to "bust" and it's not close. 
