Can the blackmon supporters sell me on him? Just so I wont have to put my fist through my TV if we draft him tomorrow.
I look at him and I see a player that doesn't have elite size, speed, and average hands that played in the spread offense in a division with the worst defense in college football. Why do you (assuming you're a blackmon fan) feel he's worth it and will produce at the next level? And please leave out words like "winner".
I had to shake my head this eve watching NFL network when Blackmon says get your popcorn ready. I mean everytime i try to convince myself he isn't the next TO it is something with this kid that reminds me of TO.
Quote: I had to shake my head this eve watching NFL network when Blackmon says get your popcorn ready. I mean everytime i try to convince myself he isn't the next TO it is something with this kid that reminds me of TO.
TO had a pretty dang good career. If he can play like TO and just keep some of that off-field stuff TO had in check, then we're talking a borderline HOFer.
IMHO his #1 asset is his ability to find the soft part of zone defenses. It reminds me of Marvin Harrison in his good years, how he just ate up zones. I do worry about his ability to separate from press coverage at the next level but zones he will shred.
Quote: I had to shake my head this eve watching NFL network when Blackmon says get your popcorn ready. I mean everytime i try to convince myself he isn't the next TO it is something with this kid that reminds me of TO.
I dont mind when the kids boast. I actually like to hear it, cause you better go back it up now. You know he will be on the field somewhere this year from game 1.
Quote: I had to shake my head this eve watching NFL network when Blackmon says get your popcorn ready. I mean everytime i try to convince myself he isn't the next TO it is something with this kid that reminds me of TO.
If Blackmon can be a TO, I take him and don't think twice.
TO is ...
6th in receptions 2nd in yards 2nd in receiving TD's 4th in rushing/receiving combined TD's 11th in yards from scrimmage
All time.
Dude is arguably the 2nd best Wide Receiver to play the game, behind Jerry Rice.
i did a huge write up on why we needed to draft a wr with the #4 pick(blackmon) about a month 1/2 ago. I have no clue where I put it on this site.
i believe that he will end up being a roddy white/ Dwane Bowe/Wes Welker/ Jerry Rice type player- not super fast not super tall but does great in traffic finds soft spots, fights for the ball and does well in the NFL.
I also believe the Browns brass have another plan and I think that Heckert's board looks like this: the two obvious qb's
First, let me assuage your measurables concerns about him. He's taller and bulkier than 3 of the 5 leading receivers in the NFL last year. He's the same height and has a couple pounds on Roddy White. He also ran the same 40 time at his pro day that White did. His size will not prevent him from becoming an elite WR.
As you say, he played in a spread offense in college. Guess what... so did 75% of all college WRs, so how come only Ryan Broyles' production even comes close to his?
In his last 25 games, he had 232 receptions, over 3300 rec yds, and 38 TDs. Last season, Browns QBs only threw for 3300 yards. The Browns as a team didn't score 38 TDs of any sort.
Justin Blackmon has possibly the best combination of tackle-breaking and defender-avoiding abilities of any receiver to enter the NFL since the guy Mourg and Toad are so quick to negatively associate Blackmon with... TO.
Well, guess what. He plays just like TO. I think Mourg and Toad are praising Blackmon with faint damnation when they say they watch him play and he reminds them of the guy who has more TD receptions than anyone not named Jerry Rice (currently tied with Moss). Why wouldn't we want someone who scores a ton of TDs despite defenses knowing he's the focal point of the offense?
An article was put on this forum trying to say there are receivers better than Blackmon in this draft. The stats provided in that article showed that of the ten receivers compared, Blackmon gained the highest number of yards per pass attempt thrown less than 10 yards downfield. That's ideal for our limited QB and the WCO in general. His average gain for that metric was more than twice that of Stephen Hill.
Blackmon got open in the short, intermediate and deep routes every game this season. The guy is just a physically dominant presence. He already is what Greg Little's potential was supposed to be. People say Blackmon isn't fast, please find me a play where he's caught from behind.
Better yet, tell me why he would be more beneficial than Richardson.
Good attributes, but not good enough. I can't see him helping us more than Trent. We had no run game whatsoever last year, and drafted a WR, and the offense was putrid. With Hillis in 2010, even though we weren't elite, the offense obviously looked better. It takes the pressure off the QB to be able to hand it off, and know he can move the chains on his own.
I think the gap between Richardson and Martin is greater than Blackmon and Floyd.
Mayock is trying to say that we take Blackmon because we can land Martin later. It works both ways, and if you want the BPA and he's rated higher on their board, then it has to be Trent.
The case against receiver at 4 is that this is one of the deepest receiver classes ever. Alshon Jeffery, Sanu, Greg Childs, Criner, Blackmon, kenny Wright, Stephen Hill plus about 8 or 9 more than will be major contributors as rookies.
Quote: DP17, Floyd isn't making it out of the top 10, either.
We should be able to get Martin at 37. What receiver can we get at 37?
He may make it out the top 10, but not to 22. I do know that, but wasn't my point.
I thought the point was improving the team? What does the relative gap between the two #1 and #2 players at the position matter? To me, what matters is what can you add to your team.
Quote: DP17, Floyd isn't making it out of the top 10, either.
We should be able to get Martin at 37. What receiver can we get at 37?
He may make it out the top 10, but not to 22. I do know that, but wasn't my point.
I thought the point was improving the team? What does the relative gap between the two #1 and #2 players at the position matter? To me, what matters is what can you add to your team.
Mayock said we'd take Blackmon and come back to take Martin at 22.
The point is, if we are going after a RB and WR, take the BPA. IMO, the gap between Richardson and the other RBs is greater than Blackmon and the other WRs. Richardson is head and shoulders above the rest of the backs. Hell, I can't even say Blackmon is the best receiver. So why take the WR first? Take Richardson.
All of Blackmon's size and skill talk aside, I'm going to dumb it down and talk about his demeanor and attitude.
Even in games where he's tearing it up and racking up stats, he seems to get frustrated and impatient. Just seems quick to get pouty about getting the ball. Sure, that's called fire and competitiveness, but is that going to work w/ him being a rookie on OUR team? What if he just doesn't get all those receptions? How's he going to handle it?
As talented as the dude is, I really still see him as a super compliment to an established #1 receive in the pros. Another Boldin or Julio Jones. I think he NEEDS a better team than ours in its current state to really succeed.
Mayock said we'd take Blackmon and come back to take Martin at 22.
The point is, if we are going after a RB and WR, take the BPA. IMO, the gap between Richardson and the other RBs is greater than Blackmon and the other WRs. Richardson is head and shoulders above the rest of the backs. Hell, I can't even say Blackmon is the best receiver. So why take the WR first? Take Richardson.
I disagree, there is not one other WR who has better PA's for our offense at WR then Blackmon does. For a different system and philosophy I'll give you that, but for what we need for this offense Blackmon is head and shoulders better then the next in this class of WR's.
Man...that is a lot of solid and Steady Production. Teams tried to stop him and key on him but the guy just keeps on producing. I would love to see what a Blackmon and Martin could do for this offense. This is the type of Football player any Browns fan should be happy to have.
Thanks for all the responses guys. So interesting arguments in here for sure. I still go back to last season when he was thinking about coming out and I wasn't a huge fan of him then. I think I'm just to the point where I'll have to see the production at the Pro level to believe it. I would put him 3rd or 4th on my board at the WR position and I just dont think he'll be the top WR from this class. If the Browns take him, I hope I'm wrong.
I know you weren't asking me, but I felt like answering anyway lol.
1. Michael Floyd 2. Justin Blackmon 3. Stephen Hill 4. Alshon Jeffery 5. Rueben Randle 6. Kendall Wright 7. Nick Toon (WAY higher than anyone else will have him, I'm aware) 8. Mohamed Sanu 9. Chris Givens 10. Junior Hemmingway (Again, WAY higher than anyone else will have him)
just to keep this going (and since I had already done it in another thread), here was CleveSteve's extracted WR list (for the Browns specifically, might be different overall):
Childs, Rainey, J.Wright, and Wylie are way up his board compared to ours and others. Everything after Blackmon/Floyd being the top2 (in some order) is completely random everywhere this year.
3 *Justin Blackmon WR 1 Oklahoma State 5 Michael Floyd WR 2 Notre Dame 8 Kendall Wright WR 3 Baylor 18 *Alshon Jeffery WR 4 South Carolina 22 *Stephen Hill WR 5 Georgia Tech 30 Greg Childs WR 6 Arkansas 31 *Mohamed Sanu WR 7 Rutgers 38 Ryan Broyles WR 8 Oklahoma 57 Chris Rainey WR 9 Florida 58 A.J. Jenkins WR 10 Illinois 59 Devon Wylie WR 11 Fresno State 60 Jarius Wright WR 12 Arkansas 61 Joe Adams WR 13 Arkansas 72 Juron Criner WR 14 Arizona 95 Marvin McNutt WR 15 Iowa 97 DeVier Posey WR 16 Ohio State 98 Danny Coale WR 17 Virginia Tech 99 T.J. Graham WR 18 North Carolina State 100 Travis Benjamin WR 19 Miami (Fla.)
108 *Tommy Streeter WR 20 Miami (Fla.) 109 Dwight Jones WR 21 North Carolina 110 *Eric Page WR 22 Toledo 118 Keshawn Martin WR 23 Michigan State 123 Chris Owusu WR 24 Stanford 130 Marquis Maze WR 25 Alabama 145 Jermaine Kearse WR 26 Washington
A lot of separation is made by how you run your routes, how you get into and out of your breaks, and your short burst, all of which he is excellent at, and nobodys running him down from behind and if they do it is 50 yards downfield.
Hes plenty fast, what was Jerry Rices 40 time? Does anyone know or care?
Size, speed, better hands, better route running. Played in a pro style offense that didn't throw the ball and pathetic QB play. Its a speculation/projection I'm aware.
Sanu is a slot guy at best who's ceiling is Joe J. Have him at #3 just doesn't even make sense. Then to have an under sized RB ahead of Randle is just crazy. Seems like you're trying too hard to be different.
I love his toughness, route running and overall athleticism and have him as the 4th rated WR.
General internet consensus had him in the 2nd-3rd round. His value the past week or so has dropped for whatever reason, but he's generally viewed in the 6-10 range on the WR lists.
I know, I just picked that video because it answered some questions about his athleticism. Any video of any player makes a guy look like the next coming of (insert HOF player from that position)
#1 for the Browns, keep trying though. Also having a WR on most people's baord at #3 or #4 as my number 1 isn't nearly as crazy as having him #17 behind an under sized RB who doesnt play the position.
Quote: #1 for the Browns, keep trying though. Also having a WR on most people's baord at #3 or #4 as my number 1 isn't nearly as crazy as having him #17 behind an under sized RB who doesnt play the position.
So, at number 4 you want Reuben Randle over Blackmon?
Justin Blackmon Stephen Hill Kendall Wright Juron Criner Ryan Broyles Greg Childs Marvin Jones Michael Floyd Alshon Jeffries Jarius Wright
I have concerns about Hill for us. To fit into our offense he will need to work on his route running. Also, he is currently a purely deep threat wr and we do not have a Qb to take advantage of that.
I have concerns about the reports on Kendall Wright about his lack of strength, high body fat and lack of work ethic. These are issues that I would really need to look into but obviously I don't have the access/resources that NFL teams do.
Criner, Broyles and Childs have health issues that need to be explored. But I really like these 3 guys and can get them in the 3rd/4th round.
Of all the Wr classified as system Wr's I would put Floyd at the top of the list. I don't see much explosion in his game. Also, People talk about the lack of pass defense in the Big 12 but ND didin't exactly have a tough schedule.
Quote: today is a day to air all ideas. I like it (though obviously from my list, I am not high on Randle)
I am not high on Randle either although he might be a Brown I will have to learn to like him. I have seen enough LSU games and watched enough video(not highlights) and I just don't see it. He has no suddenness about him, no quick twitch moves. He doesn't look all that fast on film but he does get separation and had some good games against good competition. I keep seeing that ball hit him square in the hands on a beautiful throw for a long gainer and he drops it. Not that drops don't happen but when I envision him in Brown and Orange I can't help but think underwhelming. If we take him I hope I am wrong.
Rueben Randle Stephen Hill* Mohamed Sanu Alshon Jeffery*
3rd round Grade:
Kendall Wright (SWR variable applied) Greg Childs Brain Quick And I am having trouble coming up with #10 in the Top 100, because there isn't one, but if I have to make that determination on who is #10
I would say A.J. Jenkins
(*) "Boom or Bust" so I couldn't give them a higher grade.
Quote:
it was open for everyone. WR is crazy this year where everyone seems to have a different list.
Sanu is a slot guy at best who's ceiling is Joe J. Have him at #3 just doesn't even make sense. Then to have an under sized RB ahead of Randle is just crazy. Seems like you're trying too hard to be different.
Rueben Randle Stephen Hill* Mohamed Sanu Alshon Jeffery*
3rd round Grade:
Kendall Wright (SWR variable applied) Greg Childs Brain Quick And I am having trouble coming up with #10 in the Top 100, because there isn't one, but if I have to make that determination on who is #10
I would say A.J. Jenkins
Ok, so how do you rank your other 90 remaining receivers?
Sanu is a slot guy at best who's ceiling is Joe J. Have him at #3 just doesn't even make sense. Then to have an under sized RB ahead of Randle is just crazy. Seems like you're trying too hard to be different.
Sanu a SWR, that's a first.
JJ I'll take on any given Sunday to do battle with.
Ok, so how do you rank your other 90 remaining receivers?
Sorry don't have time, but they are all outside looking in. Rounds 4 and 5 are a dead zone and really no better then taking a flyer on one in rounds 6 and 7.
With that said I have a few in mind with those Compensatory picks.
Sanu is a slot guy at best who's ceiling is Joe J. Have him at #3 just doesn't even make sense. Then to have an under sized RB ahead of Randle is just crazy. Seems like you're trying too hard to be different.
well, I'm just a ridiculous kind of guy
no, I was not trying to be different, but I wanted to form my opinions on my own and WR is a position that I have watched most of these guys quite a bit through the season.
I know I love Sanu more than most. He reminds me of Hakeem Nicks at UNC. Same amazing hands, good route running, while playing in a pro-style system under Schiano at Rutgers. I view slot guys as the smaller, quicker guys in general, so that is definitely not Sanu. JoeJ is probably his floor, Anquan Boldin is more who I see him becoming (or Nicks as mentioned).
Obviously, I don't like Randle. I don't like the routes he ran (too often just a go deep and have Jefferson air it out to him), and I didn't like that he never seemed to make an impact (part of that is on the QBs, I know). He doesn't adjust well to balls in the air, didn't have the same "fight" to get them from DBs compared to other guys in this class, etc.
The other 'weird' placement: Kendall Wright is the one guy that I have moved down on my list as the offseason has progressed. I have watched more of RGIII when we were in the running for him and the more I watched the more I noticed that Wright tended to not get open initially and it was RGIII running around that bought time and gave Wright a bunch of his long plays. He wasn't great breaking tackles, has small hands (hurts for the over the middle plays), and I wanted to see a Jeremy Maclin player in him and just didn't.
you like Randle and Sanu? it's apparently got to be either or in this thread buddy, pick a side
obviously j/k
I like how you have your 1st round WRs the complete WRs 2nd round WRs the physical trait WRs 3rd round WRs the other highly sought WRs but not quite the physical traits of the above
was that on purpose or just how it played out for you this year?
I really like Broyles. He was my clear cut #2 Wr (behind Blackmon) up to the point that he tore his ACL. I hope that we can get him for a steal in round 4. Just look at the change to Landry Jones after his injury. Jones went from a "sure fire" top 10 pick to a guy who needed to return to college for his senior year to try to re-establish his draft status.
Childs was on the verge of being a spectacular receiver before his injury a year ago. As the season went on you could see his recovery progressing. He hasn't made it back to where he was but I am expectant that he will with another off-season. Which begs the point on Broyles. If we draft him we might not want to expect too much his rookie year.
I agree on Broyles being a steal in round4. I guess I factored his likely PUP candidacy into his placement on my list.
Childs is very hit or miss but yeah, if he gets back to where he was, another mid-round steal.
Marvin Jones is the other guy for me in the mid-rounds that could be a steal. The measurables of the "top" guys on most boards along with production. Yet, very little is said about him.
Blackmons a beast, he is explosive and knows how to get open.
King
This video again?
I guess you also have to admire the separation he's getting from that NFL defense he's up against . . .
I watch these videos, and they always bring up the statistics ...... but I wonder how these guys compare to the elite athletes who make it to the NFL in the upper rounds?
I have yet to see one of these guys test badly on Spots Science. They always look great, and do something so far out of the norm that it's almost abnormal. However, are they that far above the normal person ..... or the average 1st to 2nd round player at their position?
They brought up Burress as a comparison ..... but is that today's 34 year old Burress, or was it the 31 year old Burress prior to his prison term ..... or the 27 year old Burress when he was overall a disappointment with the Steelers?
Blackmon did make some impressive catches in that video though.
i assume the producers of this show look at the measurables of the athletes and purposefully test them in areas where they will be well above the normal even for a professional athlete at their position.
Something that can be overlooked, Blackmon is intelligent and can find holes in defenses. That is HUGE for a WCO WR. If they have good hands and a high IQ they fit.
See, the biggest issue I have here is where we are drafting. We need both guys, and it ain't gonna happen.
At 4, you can't screw around. IMO you absolutely HAVE to go with BPA at 4. I just don't see Blackmon being higher on the board than TR. So you throw out everything, go with BPA, and take him. Come back at 22, see who is there as far as WR, and take him. We have ammo to move up a few spots if there is someone fall/available.
It's just Blackmon is everything you want from a WCO WR. He's intelligent, has phenomenal body control, great hands, plays very hard, breaks tackles, and doesn't mind running the dirty routes diva WR's don't want to run
Don't get me wrong, I like Blackmon. I really do. But like I said, for me it's BPA, and it's Trent. I wouldn't be mad if we go with him. I would be down a bit, but I know he'd come and help right away. But I'd be ecstatic to get Richardson, then a WR at 22. Like pooping myself ecstatic.
It's just Blackmon is everything you want from a WCO WR. He's intelligent, has phenomenal body control, great hands, plays very hard, breaks tackles, and doesn't mind running the dirty routes diva WR's don't want to run
Quote: you like Randle and Sanu? it's apparently got to be either or in this thread buddy, pick a side
obviously j/k
I like how you have your 1st round WRs the complete WRs 2nd round WRs the physical trait WRs 3rd round WRs the other highly sought WRs but not quite the physical traits of the above
was that on purpose or just how it played out for you this year?
No I do this every year with all positions.
It coincides with my big board, with all of the positions rated overall.
And obviously you saw some of the reasons why some are higher then others. ie; rounds.
I think that Hill will go higher, but yes I like both Randle and Sanu and see them as complimentary types as I do with the 3rd round prospects.
Hill and Jefferson have a chance to be #1's, but there is a bigger risk taking them higher then the 2nd round imo.
It's just Blackmon is everything you want from a WCO WR. He's intelligent, has phenomenal body control, great hands, plays very hard, breaks tackles, and doesn't mind running the dirty routes diva WR's don't want to run
He really is a hard worker in and out of games. There was some rumors going around that this was contrary to his work ethics, but I believed them [rumors] to be incorrect.
I agree on Broyles being a steal in round4. I guess I factored his likely PUP candidacy into his placement on my list.
Childs is very hit or miss but yeah, if he gets back to where he was, another mid-round steal.
Marvin Jones is the other guy for me in the mid-rounds that could be a steal. The measurables of the "top" guys on most boards along with production. Yet, very little is said about him.
I truly believe that we come out of this draft with 2 wr's. Even if we take Blackmon we will take another complimentary guy in the 4th or 5th. If we take a Blackmon or Sanu or Jeffries type of player then I can see them leaning towards a take the top off the defense guy who also has great punt return skills, like a Joe Adams or a TY Hilton.
