I am living proof that age is irrelevant. Roger Staubach was late 20's when he made his Dallas debut,that worked out ok.Plus,Weeden has been throwing footballs whereas Staubach was throwing bullets.
Maybe we can go back and re-draft Brady Quinn and get a couple of really bad years of football out of him before we wind up dumping him?
Quinn cost us a 1st and a 2nd to move up to get him. In return he gave us 3 years of awful QB play. Again, he cost us a 1st and a 2nd round pick. 3 years later, he was gone.
I wish that we could have waited to the 2nd for Weeden..... but the brain trust felt that he would be gone if they waited. I'm OK with them taking him at 22 in that case. There are no other potential starting QBs in this draft. There are still a lot of guys I believe we have targeted at other positions who will be available when we pick at 37.
I called the 1st 2 picks correctly ..... and I'm calling Fleener for us at 37 if he's still available. Man ... imagine the meltdown if that happens ......
It's gotta be the RT at 37. Just hope one of Glenn, Martin, or Massie is still there when we pick. The last thing we need is for 'Old' Brandon to get blasted from a bad right side on a consistent basis and I have to confidence that we can get a guaranteed starter at RT in the 3rd. Also, it wouldn't hurt our #3 overall pick either to have better blocking on the right side.
Everyone is saying we should have gone WR there, but there won't be a WR taken today before we pick.
Yea heckert may be lucky or did a good job of reading the draft but right now we have the 3 best RT prospects in Jonathon Martin, Glenn and Massie also we have imho the best hands in the draft in Alshon Jeffery as well as the most athletic receiver in Hill, best pure route runner in Sanu.
I really like the pick. QB is more of a cerebral position where his age is not that much of an impact as it would be in a more physical position. Plus he has the added maturity that you have to have when you transition to the pros.
QBs can play well into their 30s, so if we get 2-3 years of good play out of him, that's 2-3 more than we have had since '99. He's a smart kid, has all the ability, has shown leadership and other intangibles. What's not to like?
I preferred him to Tanehill who has arguably higher ceiling but I still have ??? regarding him due to his rawness.
AS we're already onto part 2, I wanted to drop in my two cents.
As a player, I'm not totally against Weeden. He's put up some nice numbers against legit competition. Throws a very nice looking ball and we've likely gone a step up in arm strength. I think he's a skilled guy who hopefully can be a great starting QB.
HOWEVER, there's multiple things I don't like here...
AGE.... Although age is not always the biggest factor, it IS a factor. Realistically, we drafted a guy who has 6 years of football ahead of him....if we've lucky 7 or 8. Granted, if its 6 winning seasons, I'm a happy dude. However, his time becomes NOW and if he's not successful out of the gate, we've got problems.
THE CONDUCT OF OUR FO... My buddy CanadianDawg alerted me to the reports circulating that Heck told Colt that the Browns would not be taking a QB day one. We now have and are shopping Colt McCoy. I realize that football is a business but this is unethical to the highest degree. If you can;t make the promise 100%, don;t make the promise. Colt went from being the starter to trade bait in 24 hrs. Business may be business but sweet crap, let's show some respect for a guy who has played his guts out for this team.
DRAFT POSITION/WHO IS ON THE BOARD.... With Riley Rieff on the board, a tackle projected higher in the draft and one of the best Guard prospects since Hutchinson (DeCastro) on the board, we take Weedon. Or looking at it the other way, we could have locked up a WR- which there will likely now be a run on.
End of the day... I'm not a fan of the pick but I won;t be quite as mad as many until I see what the guy (I can;t even call him the kid) can do. If he comes out of the gate and plays lights out, great. But my expectations are pretty high and if we don;t see at least a 3200 yd and 2 to 1 TD to INT ratio season out of him, I think we got f'd.
Quote: If Weeden wasn't 28 years old, where do you think he would have gone?
Probably would have went to us with the number 4 pick, lol.
May be even ahead of RG3. That he's 28 years old is the reason why he sort of wasn't in the discussions the way the other guys were IMO
I do not care about his age. I do not care about his age. I do not care about his age. I do not care about his age.
I care that the guy is completely immobile and has never taken a snap under center. I care that drafting a QB in the first round is committing to that guy for at least three years. I care that "it takes two years to learn the WCO" and we're hitting reset again. I care that we still have nobody to throw the ball to and that we have to choose between an average WR and a RT.
Just like any other first round pick, it's all about production, and if he can produce well for us for the next 7-8 years (assuming that his age will deteriorate his skillset eventually) then I'm very happy! If Heckert believes he can be the guy, then we just have to wait and see. If he fails, it won't be because of his age. It'll be because his talent.
With all that said, I'm very excited to see this offense next season. I think Colt was holding us back a lot more than people think.He wouldn't throw in NFL-sized windows of opportunity and that killed our passing game. True, our receivers weren't good enough to get WIDE open enough for him to pull the trigger, but they were getting open enough that a good QB with trust in his arm and the ability to anticipate those windows could exploit. Hopefully, Weedon will be that guy.
As mentioned above, I do think his age and maturity WILL help him to acclimate to the pros, at least culturally. He's man, not a kid... and that will earn him some respect in the locker room a 22-year old rookie wouldn't get.
I keep thinking about the years Kurt Warner gave St. Louis after arriving there in his late 20s.... a rookie to the NFL.
Luck is the best QB, big mobile, can throw on the run, moves within the pocket and will stand in the pocket and deliver the ball in the face of pressure and he may be the best I have seen at presnap reads but if you want someone to play pass and catch, weeden is the man lol.
He may not be able to walk and chew gum but if he doesnt have to move he is deadly accurate and shows good timing. To bad in the AFC North they will occasionally rush the passer lol
I blasted django when he claimed we should take Weeden at 4. Only because I thought 4 was too high for someone that old.
However, at 22, how do you pass on a guy with his skill set? Regardless of age.
If he plays and gives us 7-8 GOOD years, isn't he worth the pick?
Or should we have gone WR and STILL not had a QB, and go through this all over again next year?
I think Weeden is the answer at QB for another 7-8 years. Give me that out of the #22 pick and I'm one happy person.
Hell... right now I'd be happy with 5 years of good, consistent QB play.
With that said I don't know if he comes in and lights it up like Cam Newton and Dalton.... Newton was bigger and can run. Dalton had Green to throw to...
Weeden has potential, but he needs to learn the system quickly
Quote: I care that the guy is completely immobile and has never taken a snap under center. I care that drafting a QB in the first round is committing to that guy for at least three years. I care that "it takes two years to learn the WCO" and we're hitting reset again. I care that we still have nobody to throw the ball to and that we have to choose between an average WR and a RT.
Unlike you, I do care about his age a bit, but more about his skills at his age.
There is still one quality WR (Hill) in the draft and some very good RT that can be gotten. I really have doubts about whether the Browns will get either one.
Sure, they could get a WR and/or a RT, but will either of them be the quality players that the Browns need? I'm not convinced of that.
I'd try to move back into the second. A run on WRs will start quickly and really there;s only two RT prospects that I really like left (Bobbie Massie and Cordy Glenn)
If the dang on Bengals can do it.. why the heck can't we??
Where to start? Ah! AJ Green and much more to go along with a 21st Century process of building a team and it pains me so to say that, but it's the truth.
While we are busy dinking and dunking and Clubing our way down the field, they will strike back with sudden furry with their vertical attack and we will be left with no answers.
Did the Bengals care if they lost their RB? Did they panic? No, because they knew that to get one of those jalopy's all they had to do was go to the nearest used car dealership
Quote: I'd try to move back into the second. A run on WRs will start quickly and really there;s only two RT prospects that I really like left (Bobbie Massie and Cordy Glenn)
Stephen Hill is going to be gone with the 33rd pick to St. Louis. I think Baltimore gets a receiver too. They could go OL, but I think they'll add another fresh weapon.
Quote: [ I am of the opinion that as long as we have this FO, then we will never Draft a Julio Jones or Justin Blackmon blue chip WR.
I Don't think Justin Blackmon is a blue chip WR. Everyone has said he isn't the game changer WR, he was just the best in this draft but wasn't elite when compared to other guys.
Most people seemed to want either Reiff or Decastro, simply because they were no brainers in terms of BPA.
Weeden would have been fine at #37 or even at the end of the 1st (in a trade up). It just didn't make a ton of sense when an elite guard prospect was there and also the #2 OT (who was a perfect RT prospect).
The Steelers never help me feel any better in these situations either. They seem to ALWAYS take the guy I want and that guy almost always seems to be better than the guy Cleveland passed on him for.
I do value the OLine, don't get me wrong, but at what point are our fans going to stop wanting 1st round Offensive Linemen? We playmakers. We needed a QB. We got Richardson. Now we go get a receiver at 37, IMO.
I don't disagree with that sentiment but when you draft a power runner, does it not make sense to then draft the grinder at OG when he falls in your lap?
Sometimes you have to set aside need when a player like Decastro is unexpectedly there. Cleveland passed on a consensus top 15-20 player in favor of a 28 year old projected mid second round QB. It was a big reach.
I understand Cleveland needs playmakers at WR but there is little difference between the WR you take at #37 and the WR you could take at #67 (or even move in to the late 2nd). I just don't see Hill or Jeffries as guys who are so good that you pass on an elite OG in favor of going QB / WR with 22/37.
Oh well. Maybe I'm completely wrong but when Decastro is steamrolling our LB's twice a year, I have a feeling we're going to wish we had him.
After sleeping on this ridiculous gamble at #22, I've chosen to to try and find the positive in this, which is that I'm at least not going to be subjected to another year or two of Colt McCoy as the Browns QB.
After sleeping on this ridiculous gamble at #22, I've chosen to to try and find the positive in this, which is that I'm at least not going to be subjected to another year or two of Colt McCoy as the Browns QB.
Quote: [ I am of the opinion that as long as we have this FO, then we will never Draft a Julio Jones or Justin Blackmon blue chip WR.
I Don't think Justin Blackmon is a blue chip WR. Everyone has said he isn't the game changer WR, he was just the best in this draft but wasn't elite when compared to other guys.
No everyone hasn't said that, but your welcome to have a different opinion.
Jacksonville went out and signed Robinson in FA, but did that stop them from trading up to the 5th pick to select, justin Blackmon? No it did not.
This FO (obviously) doesn't value the position like the rest of the league.
They still believe that they can make a silk purse out of a sows ear.
Two of the best WR's [Rice & Irvin] to ever play the position said that Blackmon was a beast and a special talent.
After sleeping on this ridiculous gamble at #22, I've chosen to to try and find the positive in this, which is that I'm at least not going to be subjected to another year or two of Colt McCoy as the Browns QB.
Thank you Tom Heckert.
Do you think it will be an improvement?
I believe in the concept of addition by subtraction.
it was a gret move by Jacksonville... they were in more need of a WR than we are... they had nothing on offense except MJD... I think Blackmon is a great WR but TR I think has a higher floor and can make an immediate impact.
Quote: I don't disagree with that sentiment but when you draft a power runner, does it not make sense to then draft the grinder at OG when he falls in your lap?
Sometimes you have to set aside need when a player like Decastro is unexpectedly there. Cleveland passed on a consensus top 15-20 player in favor of a 28 year old projected mid second round QB. It was a big reach.
I understand Cleveland needs playmakers at WR but there is little difference between the WR you take at #37 and the WR you could take at #67 (or even move in to the late 2nd). I just don't see Hill or Jeffries as guys who are so good that you pass on an elite OG in favor of going QB / WR with 22/37.
Oh well. Maybe I'm completely wrong but when Decastro is steamrolling our LB's twice a year, I have a feeling we're going to wish we had him.
I was hoping we would have grabbed DeCastro at 22. I really think Weeden would have been there at 37. I don't see any other team knocking at the door to trade up to snag him. Between Weeden and WR, I'd been fine with going Weeden, but when Decastro and Reiff fell so far and landed in our laps, it was questionable to why we didn't take one of them.
Now if we can get a quality WR and RT or RG today, I think my concerns will be eased, but until then it is what it is.
I'm not on the Fleener bandwagon. We currently have four tight ends on the roster. Hopefully Cameron can be Fleener. I just don't see it. I take Glenn and then see what is available later in the draft a wide receiver.
The Browns have said that they want to add weapons ..... and Fleener is probably the biggest and best weapon they could add at this point.
Watson is getting old, and is coming off 3 concussions last year. We can bring in a major upgrade with Fleener. Just because we have guys at the position doesn't mean that we can't upgrade.
Quote: Just because we have guys at the position doesn't mean that we can't upgrade.
Cameron's ceiling is what Fleener should be as well. It's just that Fleener is closer to his ceiling already. And even though Moore doesn't play (for whatever reason) he is just as good a pass catcher as Fleener.
Moore doesn't play because he can't, or won't block. When he goes into the game, teams know that we're throwing the ball.
Smith is our most "complete" TE at this point, followed by Watson. Then Cameron might be next, but man, he didn't show much last year. Moore is a situational player.
We could definitely use a great pass catching TE who can also mix it up a little bit blocking.
The thought of seeing Weeden fake a handoff to Richardson ... the defense collapses towards him ...... Fleener breaks out over the middle against a deep Safety ,,,, Weeden hits him in stride, and he runs away from that poor lone Safety for the TD ....... well, frankly, that makes me happy.
Quote: Other thread is 10 pages long and about to get locked.
Honest question for you guys ...
If Weeden wasn't 28 years old, where do you think he would have gone?
Hard to say, Again, I'm no Guru But from what I saw, he didn't 'exactly light it up in those clips to anyone but Blackmon.. So you gotta ask, if he didn't have blackmon,, would he even be on anyones radar at all....
I"m just not sure he's as good as advertised... We sure are going to find out however......
Quote: Moore doesn't play because he can't, or won't block. When he goes into the game, teams know that we're throwing the ball.
I agree with that. I don't even see why Moore is even called a tight end. Because he is tall and white? They don't even put him in the position to try and block.
Quote: Then Cameron might be next, but man, he didn't show much last year.
Cameron caught only 16 passes at tight end for USC. Then he missed an entire off-season due to the lockout. He is raw. I didn't expect to see much from him.
Fleener would be nice to have, but at this point he is a luxury. We have gaping holes at multiple positions. I haven't even seen linebacker or defensive end mentioned as a potential pick in round two, but I think both are distinct possibilities.
Quote: I don't think we'll win any of those games, including against Luck or RG3.
Are you predicting 0-16? (Not being smart, just asking.)
I think that the Browns final record will be closer to 0-16 than it will be to a playoff spot. I dare say that if we win 4 games next season (even with Richardson), we'll have to consider it a successful year.
The question would remain whether another season of double-digit losses will be acceptable. Holmgren has said that it was unacceptable, but one has to question whether they believe him. Mangini was fired for getting 5 wins, which were unacceptable, but 4 wins seems to have been.
I'll state right now that I expect that the Browns will be drafting in the Top 5 again next year. I dare say it will be Top 3 and the chances are better that it will be the #1 overall pick than it is for any other team in the NFL, including Jacksonville.
Not only that, but I expect that the Rams will take Stephen Hill at #33. I think that it's a done deal already. I wouldn't be surprised that Goodell has already been informed of the Rams selection at #33.
Quote: but given that he can play OT & OG, he's got to be Baltimore's target, no?
He would play guard for the Ravens, so I don't think he would be their target. I think the Ravens try and replace Jarret Johnson and select Upshaw (if the Colts don't take him first).
I read an article that said that Jeffrey was off the Browns board. I don't know why. Seems to me as I remember it, that it was a pretty reputable source too.
1. Quarterback 2. Quarterback 3. Quarterback 4. Quarterback 100. Insert other needs here
Okay. We got the quarterback.
I fully expect we will go, at a minimum, 9-7 this year. If we don't? Failed pick. Period.
And yes, I'm using the same measuring stick that has been afforded McCoy. The "experts" on here all blamed Colt. Or whoever our qb was. We drafted a qb in the first round, and we're gonna ride him into the sunset.
I don't want to hear any excuses this year. We WILL score a minimum of 21 pts. per game. (we'd better, with a "stud" back, and a first round qb). No "you need two years to learn the offense" crap.
9-7 minimum. 8-8 is a failure with this "stud" first round qb and a first round running back. Period.
I will hold Weeden to the same standards our 3rd round qb got from the "experts".
We WILL see 350-400 yard passing games, right?
We WON'T see any checkdowns when receivers are downfield wide open, right?
Receivers WILL catch the ball, and since it will be placed in a perfect spot, most 10 yd. catches will result in a minimum of 20 yard plays, right?
5 yd. passes WILL end up 15 yd. gains.
If our first round qb can't do that?????????? Failed pick. (at least according to the people that seem to think their "expertise" matters)
Oh, I forgot to add that, since we are - according to the haters a month ago - in year 3 of H and H and yet another rebuild - IF we didn't go at a minimum 8-8 this year, it would be time to fire the front office.
So, I'll hold that "truth" that was espoused on here many, many times, to be self evident.
9-7 - hey, we have a first round qb. Less than 8-8, front office gets fired, PLUS we draft another qb first round next year. Right guys?
You're literally the only one on this board that thinks Colt McCoy was held to those standards.
My standard for Colt was to see progress. He regressed. End of discussion.
I was the biggest Colt McCoy fan on this board, even before we drafted him. Go back and search for it if you want. But sometimes you gotta admit when you're wrong, and I was wrong about Cold McCoy.
Look at successful programs, they either built the team, and then get a QB, or they get a QB and accept the growing pains. NOT the Browns! two years . . . need a QB . . . 2 years . . .Need a QB.
05 . . . 3rd rd. Frye fans love it, then turn when they realize he stinks, and we dont have much talent 07 . . .2 #1s . Quinn fans love it, then realized what i predicted, he's not that accurate and we dont have that much talent. 10 . . .3rd rd. Colt, was promised to be developed, beats the superbowl champs and the steelers in his rookie year, and takes a beating with little talent around him. 12 . .. 1st rd. Weeden, like colt, but your trading a stronger arm, for less mobile legs.
Quote: it was a gret move by Jacksonville... they were in more need of a WR than we are... they had nothing on offense except MJD... I think Blackmon is a great WR but TR I think has a higher floor and can make an immediate impact.
Jacksonville signed Robinson who is better then any WR on this team, so no I don't agree that they needed one more so then we.
Quote: You're literally the only one on this board that thinks Colt McCoy was held to those standards.
My standard for Colt was to see progress. He regressed. End of discussion.
I was the biggest Colt McCoy fan on this board, even before we drafted him. Go back and search for it if you want. But sometimes you gotta admit when you're wrong, and I was wrong about Cold McCoy.
Fair enough.
Forget our lack of a running game. That didn't matter last year - I sure as hell won't let it matter this year - oh, wait, we got what could be a pro-bowler at running back.
Forget our "receiv........" Hell, I won't even that word all the way, it would be a waste of time.
We have our first round qb. I am a Browns fan.
I WILL hold our first round qb to higher standards. Absolutely, positively, without a doubt. PLUS, he's going to have, like I said earlier, a running back that should be awesome.
No, sir, I won't take 5-11 this year. No excuses. We'll be scoring 21 pts. or more in all games with this first round qb and a stud running back. We'll have probably 2 1000 yd. receivers.
Man - this is going to be a fun year for me. If the expectations that colt was supposed to fulfill are held for Weeden - we'll finish over .500. And I'll be the happiest guy around. If we don't? Boy, howdee - I'll be ripping certain posters on here non stop.
It's the same old crap every draft - "oh, this year we took the step". It's the same old thing with every coaching change we make. Same old thing with each new front office........
I will hold Weeden to the same standards - the SAME standards - our 3rd round qb was held. I would think that's fair.
No "he needs 2 years to develop"
No "he didn't have a running game".
No "his receivers aren't good".
No excuses - ESPECIALLY not with a top tier running back!!!
If we aren't 8-8 - everybody should be fired.......right?
Most people seemed to want either Reiff or Decastro, simply because they were no brainers in terms of BPA.
I love Stephen Hill, but if you can get a OL of the quality of DeCastro or Reiff at the #22 selection, you take them! You don't take a 28 y.o. rookie QB. Well, no sane, thinking person does.
I would have give up on Stephen Hill for either of those linemen. As it stands, I think Pittsburgh gets the best interior lineman in the draft. We get to play him twice.
It's like what I kept hearing on ESPN Cleveland leading up to the draft. You don't pass on elite players if you have the chance to draft them. If you do, you end up playing against them.
In the past 4 seasons, we have 4 divisional wins.
2008 - 2 divisional wins, season record (4-12) 2009 - 1 divisional win, season record (5-11) 2010 - 1 divisional win, season record (5-11) 2011 - no divisional wins, season record (4-12)
And Weeden improves that how? A shotgun QB in the WCO with a front office whose football knowledge has seemingly drained from their heads.
Quote: Weeden would have been fine at #37 or even at the end of the 1st (in a trade up). It just didn't make a ton of sense when an elite guard prospect was there and also the #2 OT (who was a perfect RT prospect).
Slight disagreement here. I wouldn't have wanted Weeden at any pick.
Quote: The Steelers never help me feel any better in these situations either. They seem to ALWAYS take the guy I want and that guy almost always seems to be better than the guy Cleveland passed on him for.
Ain't hard when the Browns are on the clock and the two guys you'd like are still there. You think, 'They can't eff this up!' and then when the card is handed in, the both of the guys you would have wanted are still on the board, it gets depressing!
Nope, I'm not going to support Weeden, just like all McCoy's detractors never supported him. I don't like the Weeden pick (a first rounder) just like they didn't like the McCoy one (a third rounder). It'll be interesting to see what the Browns are able to get with the compensatory picks because that's where they're going to have to make it even worth caring.
I fully expect this front office to screw the pooch with the 3rd, 4th and 5th rounders that we still have. Pathetic draft! We'll get one piece out of this draft when we had 13 selections! Epic failure in my view! Epic!
Quote: Jacksonville signed Robinson who is better then any WR on this team, so no I don't agree that they needed one more so then we.
we'll see if Laurent goes back to his pre-Dallas days now that he doesn't have all those other Cowboy playmakers deflecting attention from himself (and Romo delivering the ball)
Quote: I'd be willing to bet there's not a single receiver off the board before 37.
Greg Jennings and Jordy Nelson were both 2nd rounders.
Jusssssssst sayin.
Here's the million dollar question. Heckert has 18 guys with Round 1 grades, right? Are there any left, and if so do you pass on them to take a receiver or do you stick with the game plan?
I say stick with the game plan. Don't screw around with it. If it's a D-end or a corner or whatever, I am ok with it. I just want good players.
I would like to see us take a chance on a WR late, seems like every other year someone pops out of nowhere from those rounds at the WR position. With a good QB in place (we hope) we have a better chance at finding one.
I feel your pain. When my 1st wife left me,I cried like a littlebaby,much as you are now. After my 2nd wife left,it wasn't that bad. Now when a broad dumps me,who cares. The moral of the story? There will always be another QB to fall in love with.
Quote: Jacksonville signed Robinson who is better then any WR on this team, so no I don't agree that they needed one more so then we.
we'll see if Laurent goes back to his pre-Dallas days now that he doesn't have all those other Cowboy playmakers deflecting attention from himself (and Romo delivering the ball)
He did it for the most part without those other talents on the field [injuries]
Quote: I feel your pain. When my 1st wife left me,I cried like a littlebaby,much as you are now. After my 2nd wife left,it wasn't that bad. Now when a broad dumps me,who cares. The moral of the story? There will always be another QB to fall in love with.
Whoever would've made this team better, immediately.
Now I'll be the first to say (and if you check the pre-draft threads, you'll see I didn't say much, if anything, as I don't follow college football a whole lot).
However, my posts are directed not at Weeden - or the team, as much as they are towards 2 specific posters that blamed Colt for everything this year.
I simply will be wrong this season - which will make everyone of us happy - me included. OR, these 2 specific posters will ALSO have to admit they were wrong.
No excuses. Last year was "all Colt's fault". Okay.
This year? Stud back, stud qb - 9-7, 8-8 at a minimum. More than 21 pts. per game. Less than 8-8? We fire the front office, get rid of the coach, and draft a qb next year. Right? Isn't that what we do every couple of years?
Quote: Jacksonville signed Robinson who is better then any WR on this team, so no I don't agree that they needed one more so then we.
we'll see if Laurent goes back to his pre-Dallas days now that he doesn't have all those other Cowboy playmakers deflecting attention from himself (and Romo delivering the ball)
He did it for the most part without those other talents on the field [injuries]
at no point was Dez, Miles, Felix, DeMarco, and Witten all injured at the same time. He also always had Romo throwing him the ball.
anyways, enough about Laurent, we have our own issues to deal with.
we will have had 11 starting QBs in 14 years if Weeden starts week1.
2012 Brandon Weeden? 2011 Colt McCoy 2010 Jake Delhomme 2009 Brady Quinn 2008 Derek Anderson 2007 Charlie Frye (1 half only, but he was the guy who started) 2006 Charlie Frye 2005 Trent Dilfer 2004 Jeff Garcia 2003 Kelly Holcomb 2002 Kelly Holcomb 2001 Tim Couch 2000 Tim Couch 1999 Ty Detmer
Quote: Look at successful programs, they either built the team, and then get a QB, or they get a QB and accept the growing pains. NOT the Browns! two years . . . need a QB . . . 2 years . . .Need a QB.
05 . . . 3rd rd. Frye fans love it, then turn when they realize he stinks, and we dont have much talent 07 . . .2 #1s . Quinn fans love it, then realized what i predicted, he's not that accurate and we dont have that much talent. 10 . . .3rd rd. Colt, was promised to be developed, beats the superbowl champs and the steelers in his rookie year, and takes a beating with little talent around him. 12 . .. 1st rd. Weeden, like colt, but your trading a stronger arm, for less mobile legs.
So who is your 2014 prospect?
Here's a starting point for the 2014 QB prospects.
I am taking OTHER posters standards, and applying them to our brand new shiny first round qb. Fairly simple concept.
Look - I've been a Browns fan since I knew what football was. I didn't watch football when we had no team (aside from a bit of the playoffs, and the superbowls.)
I am a Browns fan today. I want the team to win as much as anyone.
I also expect MORE out of a first round qb than I did a 3rd round qb what wasn't expected to play. Based 100% on THEIR criteria - I fully expect to finish the coming season 9-7. I fully expect, according to their criteria - that NO receiver will have a pass not thrown in the perfect spot to gain an additional 10 yds or so after they catch every pass thrown to them.
And yes, I'll allow for a minor adjustment here and there.
Long story short - I'll be holding this first round qb to the SAME standards as these certain posters held Colt to last year.
Quote: If we draft Martin or Glenn at 37, can we just pretend we drafted them at 22 and we got Weeden in the 2nd, complaining would be reduced by 50%.
That wouldn't make any change in my view. I didn't want Weeden under any circumstance.
But, let's say that we do get Jonathan Martin or Cordy Glenn at #37. That just gives Weeden even more protection than McCoy had. Less reason to expect anything less than a playoff game in season #1 with Weeden at the helm.
Quote: This year? Stud back, stud qb - 9-7, 8-8 at a minimum. More than 21 pts. per game. Less than 8-8? We fire the front office, get rid of the coach, and draft a qb next year. Right? Isn't that what we do every couple of years?
Got it. So what happens if we score more than 21 points a game, heck even several more points a game...call it 25 ppg, but our defense "regresses" (a term I'll use loosely since our defense really wasn't anywhere near as good as most people say it was last season), and we only win 6? What do we do at that point?
Quote: Jacksonville grossly overpaid Robinson who is not better than Little.
Debatable, because I have to see Little hold on to the pass first.
But... but... our receivers are good! They were All-Pros without the accolades! Greg Little even won the Nobel Prize for Physics for reminding everyone that gravity still exists when a football hits him on the hands. Coincidentally, Quincy Morgan won the same prize for the same reason.
The thing I hope everyone knows or at least thinks, is that Weeden being 28 years old,,, there is virtually NO TIME for development. He's gotta come out firing and winning almost from day one. At his age, we don't have the luxury of giving him 2 or 3 years to develop (as if anyone on here would anyway)
Quote: This year? Stud back, stud qb - 9-7, 8-8 at a minimum. More than 21 pts. per game. Less than 8-8? We fire the front office, get rid of the coach, and draft a qb next year. Right? Isn't that what we do every couple of years?
Got it. So what happens if we score more than 21 points a game, heck even several more points a game...call it 25 ppg, but our defense "regresses" (a term I'll use loosely since our defense really wasn't anywhere near as good as most people say it was last season), and we only win 6? What do we do at that point?
Exactly what was done this year: blame the qb.
We've been "told" all last year that our problem was the qb.
We were told a semi decent qb would have us winning even. Well, we got our first round qb. I expect to win. If our d lets us down? No problem - we'll just score more than the other team.
Quote: This year? Stud back, stud qb - 9-7, 8-8 at a minimum. More than 21 pts. per game. Less than 8-8? We fire the front office, get rid of the coach, and draft a qb next year. Right? Isn't that what we do every couple of years?
Got it. So what happens if we score more than 21 points a game, heck even several more points a game...call it 25 ppg, but our defense "regresses" (a term I'll use loosely since our defense really wasn't anywhere near as good as most people say it was last season), and we only win 6? What do we do at that point?
That is still a tangible that you can see. I'd expect better offensive production and with TRich along, we should see that.
Whoever would've made this team better, immediately.
Now I'll be the first to say (and if you check the pre-draft threads, you'll see I didn't say much, if anything, as I don't follow college football a whole lot).
However, my posts are directed not at Weeden - or the team, as much as they are towards 2 specific posters that blamed Colt for everything this year.
I simply will be wrong this season - which will make everyone of us happy - me included. OR, these 2 specific posters will ALSO have to admit they were wrong.
No excuses. Last year was "all Colt's fault". Okay.
This year? Stud back, stud qb - 9-7, 8-8 at a minimum. More than 21 pts. per game. Less than 8-8? We fire the front office, get rid of the coach, and draft a qb next year. Right? Isn't that what we do every couple of years?
Once again a whiny, non-specific non-answer to a direct question.
You don't follow college football, but you are whining about the Weeden pick. Why? Because Colt McCoy somehow didn't get a "fair short"? Bull.
He was a 3rd round longshot. If he had worked out, then great ..... but he didn't. It's now time to move on in a different direction. The McCoy era has mercifully come to an end, and I can almost hear the cheering of the linemen and receivers in Berea. Man, the whole team took such a beating from so many people for the flaws of their QB.
The rest of the team wasn't perfect .... but they started dropping passes this past year. Why didn't they do so the year before? Maybe they got tired of being thrown into kill shots.
I can't wait till next year when a 3 yard pass is a rarity instead of the bread and butter of the offense. I can't wait until an uncovered receiver is actually seen, and is a big play instead of being ignored by the QB. I can't wait to have a QB who will actually throw down the field instead of checking down on ever damn play, even against single cover.
Man, last year was some of the worst QB play I have seen, and that includes the Quinn and Frye eras. I am glad that it's over with. Hopefully next year will be better. I suspect it will. If I never see another noodle-armed QB wearing a Cleveland Browns jersey it will be too soon.
Quote: Jacksonville grossly overpaid Robinson who is not better than Little.
Debatable, because I have to see Little hold on to the pass first.
But... but... our receivers are good! They were All-Pros without the accolades! Greg Little even won the Nobel Prize for Physics for reminding everyone that gravity still exists when a football hits him on the hands. Coincidentally, Quincy Morgan won the same prize for the same reason.
Yeah and how much would you like to wager that those same folks will be the first ones to blame our WR's for an inept offense this season?
Quote: This year? Stud back, stud qb - 9-7, 8-8 at a minimum. More than 21 pts. per game. Less than 8-8? We fire the front office, get rid of the coach, and draft a qb next year. Right? Isn't that what we do every couple of years?
There should be a call, right now, for Lerner to sell the team. He obviously has no idea what the hell he's doing! This ain't soccer, Randy. This is real football!
Quote: This year? Stud back, stud qb - 9-7, 8-8 at a minimum. More than 21 pts. per game. Less than 8-8? We fire the front office, get rid of the coach, and draft a qb next year. Right? Isn't that what we do every couple of years?
Got it. So what happens if we score more than 21 points a game, heck even several more points a game...call it 25 ppg, but our defense "regresses" (a term I'll use loosely since our defense really wasn't anywhere near as good as most people say it was last season), and we only win 6? What do we do at that point?
Well, since he stated that 9 wins, 8 wins at the (absolute) minimum was the bar set, anything lower than 8 wins and the whole thing needed to be scrapped, including Weeden.
Quote: The thing I hope everyone knows or at least thinks, is that Weeden being 28 years old,,, there is virtually NO TIME for development. He's gotta come out firing and winning almost from day one. At his age, we don't have the luxury of giving him 2 or 3 years to develop (as if anyone on here would anyway)
I expect that he takes the team to the playoffs, whatever the record required to do so is.
Andy Dalton took Cincy to the playoffs last year. He was chosen in the 2nd round last year. Since Weeden was taken in the first, he is obviously better than Dalton. Weeden has to prove it by taking the Browns to the playoffs in year #1. Anything less is a complete failure.
When McCoy's daddy went crying to the press, i said it then "Colt will never take another snap for the Browns". Well now he won't for sure.
I hate to see him go as he was one of the most likeable players that has ever dawned a Browns uniform but his issues were numerous. He struggled to read a defense. He struggled to understand pressure. Struggled with pocket presence. Struggled with NFL throws. He struggled to go through his progressions and he struggled mightily with putting the ball into the receivers hands giving them a chance for any type of yards after catch.
Weeden is an upgrade but he has a number of issues to be resolved before he will be anything close to an NFL QB. Hey when Holmgren said they would probably draft a QB every year until they find their guy, they weren't kidding. WE will be drafting another next year most likely lol
Quote: Jacksonville grossly overpaid Robinson who is not better than Little.
Debatable, because I have to see Little hold on to the pass first.
But... but... our receivers are good! They were All-Pros without the accolades! Greg Little even won the Nobel Prize for Physics for reminding everyone that gravity still exists when a football hits him on the hands. Coincidentally, Quincy Morgan won the same prize for the same reason.
Yeah and how much would you like to wager that those same folks will be the first ones to blame our WR's for an inept offense this season?
Is it their (WR) fault? nope!
I know. It'll be some stupid argument like Hardesty was expected to be healthy but got turf toe on the first play in training camp and was out for the season and he was critical to Weeden's success and that Reggie Hodges hadn't fully recovered from his injury and wasn't punting the ball as far, giving the opponents better field position than expected.
Once again a whiny, non-specific non-answer to a direct question.
Wrong. It was a direct answer to a direct question. I don't follow college ball all that close. Got it? According to what I read on here, Weeden was thought to be a round 2 qb. If not lower.
I have, by the way, watched the vid's on here about Luck, RG, Tannehill, and Weeden. That doesn't mean I know anything any more than YOU know anything.
Quote:
You don't follow college football, but you are whining about the Weeden pick. Why? Because Colt McCoy somehow didn't get a "fair short"? Bull.
Dude, take some of your pain pills and try to follow along, okay? Or, maybe quit taking them and try to follow along.
Here's the deal: Drop Colt McCoy from your assessment of me. By that, I mean - let's say John Doe played qb for the Browns last year. I'd have said the exact same things as I said this year. Basically: no running game, terrible receivers..........how do we judge John Doe? It's really simple, actually, if you'd just open your eyes. But no, you blamed Colt entirely. You've called me a McCoy lover, an apologist. You are so far from the truth you look foolish.
What I AM is a realist. You? Not so much.
Quote:
He was a 3rd round longshot. If he had worked out, then great ..... but he didn't. It's now time to move on in a different direction. The McCoy era has mercifully come to an end, and I can almost hear the cheering of the linemen and receivers in Berea. Man, the whole team took such a beating from so many people for the flaws of their QB.
See? Those are your words.
I will be holding our FIRST round qb to the exact same standards. If you can't deal with it, perhaps you need to back off. I have a feeling you are worried that Weeden won't get this offense to win. I mean, in the past, you always talk about the qb carrying the team to points and wins. (newton ring a bell for you? Dalton? You know, how you spoke all season about how the qb is THE reason .............)
Well, sir, we got our first round qb. AND a top notch running back. I WILL be holding Weeden to the exact same standards as you held John Q Public qb last year. If you don't like it, tough. They will be YOUR standards, sir, that I hold Weeden to.
Quote:
The rest of the team wasn't perfect .... but they started dropping passes this past year. Why didn't they do so the year before? Maybe they got tired of being thrown into kill shots.
Yup. That happened so often.
Oh, by the way - I watch a lot of nfl football. No other qb had a receiver that got hit after they caught the ball, right???????????
But, with YOUR wish, we have our brand new shiny first round qb, so our receivers will flourish and hardly get dirty, right????
Quote:
I can't wait till next year when a 3 yard pass is a rarity instead of the bread and butter of the offense. I can't wait until an uncovered receiver is actually seen, and is a big play instead of being ignored by the QB. I can't wait to have a QB who will actually throw down the field instead of checking down on ever damn play, even against single cover.
Me too.
Sad thing is - just because you say receivers were wide open all the time doesn't make it true. Or, did you go to the games and see it for yourself? Or, did you take the 1 or 2 times a game that the t.v. actually showed an open receiver that didn't get thrown to and assume, ASSume, that it happened all the time?
Grab a clue bud - I see wide open receivers on other teams that don't get thrown to. Why? You tell me. Even Aaron Rodgers.
Quote:
Man, last year was some of the worst QB play I have seen, and that includes the Quinn and Frye eras. I am glad that it's over with. Hopefully next year will be better. I suspect it will. If I never see another noodle-armed QB wearing a Cleveland Browns jersey it will be too soon.
OH, you'd better hope our brand new shiny first round pick is awesome. Seriously. He'd better hit 95% of the open receivers, or I'll be calling on you. (even though, like you last year, I won't know the play that was called). It will be nice to see our receivers won't get hit, since your brand new shiny first round qb will be throwing darts to the only place that can be thrown. If not, I'll ask you about it.
Hey, bud, you got what you wanted. A brand new shiny qb, in the first round.
Don't back off your standards and expectations now.
Dang, Weeden isn't even a Brown for 24 hours and you're trying to lower expectations of him? Please, child........it's unbecoming.
All I ask is you hold Weeden to the same expectations you held last years qb. And I will hold you to it. It'll be neat to see you be right, as that's good for the Browns. It'll be funny if you have to waffle on your expectations. Sad thing is, with your posting history, there's no in between ground. Every thing was last years qb's fault. This year? We'll see, right?
Oh, and just so you know - I am a BROWNS fan. That means I support the TEAM. Not individual players. You seem to think that implying I'm a Colt guy furthers your agenda. You look foolish doing that, and you couldn't be further from the truth.
I've supported every player we have. While I question a play, or a player at times, I have NEVER gone to the extremes you have.
You made your bed with your hatred of Colt. Now lay in it.
I hope so bad I'm wrong, because that means the Browns will be in the playoffs with our stud back and our first round qb.
Quote: I really wish you'd stop saying you're using "other peoples standards" while completely making stuff up.
Child, please.
I'm not making things up.
You know it.
No, what I know is that you're making a fool out of yourself saying you're using other peoples standards while saying that you expect EVERY pass to get 10 extra yards
Thinking to myself here. If we took Hill at 22 and Weeden at 37 it would have been alright. But since we took Weeden at 22 (assuming Hill at 37, it's a good bet) it's a bad draft.
Quote: Thinking to myself here. If we took Hill at 22 and Weeden at 37 it would have been alright. But since we took Weeden at 22 (assuming Hill at 37, it's a good bet) it's a bad draft.
Once again a whiny, non-specific non-answer to a direct question.
Wrong. It was a direct answer to a direct question. I don't follow college ball all that close. Got it? According to what I read on here, Weeden was thought to be a round 2 qb. If not lower.
I have, by the way, watched the vid's on here about Luck, RG, Tannehill, and Weeden. That doesn't mean I know anything any more than YOU know anything.
Quote:
You don't follow college football, but you are whining about the Weeden pick. Why? Because Colt McCoy somehow didn't get a "fair short"? Bull.
Dude, take some of your pain pills and try to follow along, okay? Or, maybe quit taking them and try to follow along.
Here's the deal: Drop Colt McCoy from your assessment of me. By that, I mean - let's say John Doe played qb for the Browns last year. I'd have said the exact same things as I said this year. Basically: no running game, terrible receivers..........how do we judge John Doe? It's really simple, actually, if you'd just open your eyes. But no, you blamed Colt entirely. You've called me a McCoy lover, an apologist. You are so far from the truth you look foolish.
What I AM is a realist. You? Not so much.
Quote:
He was a 3rd round longshot. If he had worked out, then great ..... but he didn't. It's now time to move on in a different direction. The McCoy era has mercifully come to an end, and I can almost hear the cheering of the linemen and receivers in Berea. Man, the whole team took such a beating from so many people for the flaws of their QB.
See? Those are your words.
I will be holding our FIRST round qb to the exact same standards. If you can't deal with it, perhaps you need to back off. I have a feeling you are worried that Weeden won't get this offense to win. I mean, in the past, you always talk about the qb carrying the team to points and wins. (newton ring a bell for you? Dalton? You know, how you spoke all season about how the qb is THE reason .............)
Well, sir, we got our first round qb. AND a top notch running back. I WILL be holding Weeden to the exact same standards as you held John Q Public qb last year. If you don't like it, tough. They will be YOUR standards, sir, that I hold Weeden to.
Quote:
The rest of the team wasn't perfect .... but they started dropping passes this past year. Why didn't they do so the year before? Maybe they got tired of being thrown into kill shots.
Yup. That happened so often.
Oh, by the way - I watch a lot of nfl football. No other qb had a receiver that got hit after they caught the ball, right???????????
But, with YOUR wish, we have our brand new shiny first round qb, so our receivers will flourish and hardly get dirty, right????
Quote:
I can't wait till next year when a 3 yard pass is a rarity instead of the bread and butter of the offense. I can't wait until an uncovered receiver is actually seen, and is a big play instead of being ignored by the QB. I can't wait to have a QB who will actually throw down the field instead of checking down on ever damn play, even against single cover.
Me too.
Sad thing is - just because you say receivers were wide open all the time doesn't make it true. Or, did you go to the games and see it for yourself? Or, did you take the 1 or 2 times a game that the t.v. actually showed an open receiver that didn't get thrown to and assume, ASSume, that it happened all the time?
Grab a clue bud - I see wide open receivers on other teams that don't get thrown to. Why? You tell me. Even Aaron Rodgers.
Quote:
Man, last year was some of the worst QB play I have seen, and that includes the Quinn and Frye eras. I am glad that it's over with. Hopefully next year will be better. I suspect it will. If I never see another noodle-armed QB wearing a Cleveland Browns jersey it will be too soon.
OH, you'd better hope our brand new shiny first round pick is awesome. Seriously. He'd better hit 95% of the open receivers, or I'll be calling on you. (even though, like you last year, I won't know the play that was called). It will be nice to see our receivers won't get hit, since your brand new shiny first round qb will be throwing darts to the only place that can be thrown. If not, I'll ask you about it.
Hey, bud, you got what you wanted. A brand new shiny qb, in the first round.
Don't back off your standards and expectations now.
Dang, Weeden isn't even a Brown for 24 hours and you're trying to lower expectations of him? Please, child........it's unbecoming.
All I ask is you hold Weeden to the same expectations you held last years qb. And I will hold you to it. It'll be neat to see you be right, as that's good for the Browns. It'll be funny if you have to waffle on your expectations. Sad thing is, with your posting history, there's no in between ground. Every thing was last years qb's fault. This year? We'll see, right?
+1
This post was full of beautiful gems but the diamond was this one:
Quote: Hey, bud, you got what you wanted. A brand new shiny qb, in the first round.
Don't back off your standards and expectations now.
I have no problem holding Weedon to the same standards as McCoy.
If he holds the ball too long when the play calls for it to leave his hand in 3 seconds, yep, I'll blame him. If he misses receivers when they're open downfield without a defender 10 yards from them, yep, I'll blame him. When he's unable to anticipate reads and hit receivers in "NFL-sized" windows of opportunity... yep, I'll blame him for that too.
I do agree with Ytown that Colt held this offense back in many ways. The reason why he's being replaced is because he did this, and he wasn't getting any better. If Weedon comes in and provides the same level of play and fails to progress... then yes, I'll be calling for another QB.
There is a level of excellence we need to expect from our QB play. And if our QB isn't at that level, then he better be progressing steadily towards it. If he's not doing that, then he needs to be replaced immediately. It's just that simple. QBs can be evaluated accurately in this system by our coaches and front office despite the poor play of those around him. Holmgren and Heckert have done that and decided it was time to try someone else. I'm happy they're not wasting any time trying to find "the guy." Now, if they'd just have to prove they can do that.
Quote: What are your expectations for Weeden this year?
I know you're probably directing this to TopDawg, but I'm feelin 7-9 this year.
All depends on how the rest of the draft pans out. If we get ourselves a WR and a RT, then that number seems realistic
Of course with injuries and stuff, who knows how things will pan out.
I mean, someone like Joe Thomas goes down and we're screwed. Playing in the AFC North, we can't afford injuries like the Chiefs suffered last year. That's basically game over
If he holds the ball too long when the play calls for it to leave his hand in 3 seconds, yep, I'll blame him. If he misses receivers when they're open downfield without a defender 10 yards from them, yep, I'll blame him. When he's unable to anticipate reads and hit receivers in "NFL-sized" windows of opportunity... yep, I'll blame him for that too.
Quote: What are your expectations for Weeden this year?
My expectations for Weeden ARE much higher than my expectations for Colt McCoy would have been.
Why? Because Colt McCoy sucks.
Weeden - Complete 60+% of his passes. 3,300 yards. 18+ TD's, 14- INT's
Colt would have to go up 3%, stay healthy for 16 games and manage to get 2 more TDs on the season (and 1 more INT) based on his per game averages from last year. The year where our offense was terrible, had no RT, and we needed a WR1 and RB1 (both of whom we could have right now for Colt).
I don't think that's such a big leap from last year's Colt stats.
Quote: What would my expectations have been for Colt McCoy?
See I don't hate Colt McCoy. I simply do not think that he is a good QB, and I think that having him try to play QB hurts this team, and its ability to win games. We will be a better team with him no longer taking snaps from under Center during real games.
We scored 13 points per game last year. Man ... let that sink in. 13 points per game. Oh ... I'm sorry .... 13.6 points per game.
That is historically awful. It is one of the worst performances ever in the history of the Cleveland Browns, and was almost as bad as the expansion Browns.
I watched Colt McCoy attempt to play the QB position last year,. and damn near get guys killed. I watched him ignore wide open receivers. i watched him throw passes that were completed, but which had no chance to go anywhere. I watched him, and this team, get worse as the year went on.
I watched receivers drop passes ..... until Wallace took over. Then I saw excitement from the receivers, and I didn;t see a bunch of dropped passes.
I don't hate Colt McCoy .... I just hate the way he played QB for my favorite team. I hate the fact that he turned our offense into one that was so bad that I was actually getting sympathy from Steelers fans instead of smack talk.
Will Weeden be better? I would say probably so. he really would be hard pressed to be worse. McCoy played a timid, scared QB. He played so far beyond "not to lose" that he reached "not to even compete" level. He did nothing well. Nothing. Now he has been replaced. This is a good thing.
You whine about anyone complaining about Colt McCoy, yet I'm not the one saying that I will blast the team if we don't make the playoffs and score 25 points per game, or any of the other stuff you have spewed on the board.Man ... read your posts. You come off as serial whiny.
You want to talk about hate though ......
Read your last statement. "My" first round QB and RB, and you'll be here to "remind" me. Yep ... that sounds rather like a fan to me.
I never said that we would make the playoffs this year. I did say that we better improve a great deal over last year. I said that we better improve significantly on the 13 points per game we put up last year. I have every reason to believe that this will happen.
I hope it will happen.
I would have hoped that we would significantly improve if McCoy had still been our QB, although I would have also known that there was no chance of this happening. Colt simply was not a good QB, and now he has been replaced. If Weeden isn't a good QB, then I suspect that he will also be replaced in a year or 2.
Whatever happens, I hope that the Browns finally develop a winner.
No, I mean you were comparing win total with McCoy and with Weeden. But if we hadn't drafted Weeden, we'd have taken another player. I was wondering how you can compare those record expectations without knowing what the difference on the team other than the QB would be.
Quote: I really wish you'd stop saying you're using "other peoples standards" while completely making stuff up.
Child, please.
I'm not making things up.
You know it.
No, what I know is that you're making a fool out of yourself saying you're using other peoples standards while saying that you expect EVERY pass to get 10 extra yards
You see, that's what you expected out of McCoy. You wanted every completed pass to result in a first down. You wanted an 8 yard pass over the 1st down marker when there was nobody open there and McCoy checked it down. God help the kid if there was actually (a rare occasion to be sure) a receiver open down field and McCoy didn't see them.
Quote: because we have a new QB learning a drastically different system than the one he's run previously and we've added so much talent to the offense. Duh.
You mean that the Air Raid college offense doesn't project well to the NFL? Really? And Weeden will now have to learn how to make quick reads required by the WCO?
Well now. I didn't know that. What do you think Weeden's champions will say abou that? You think that when he sucks in year #1, that they'll ask for year #2? Maybe by then, they'll be ready to champion another QB to be drafted in the first round.
Which one do you think they'll ask for the next regime to draft?
Quote: I'm curious to know why you expect more than 4 wins.
On most draft days I'm disappointed when we don't get the guys I want. I was upset when we drafted TJ Ward, I was upset with drafting Phil Taylor, Sheard, and Little last year. And I've been upset with years before that.
But, I like what Heckert has done with this team. I like Dick Jauron as our D-Coordintaor. And I like bringing in Brad Childress as our O-Coordinator. I wish we never lost our old special teams coach, but that's in the past.
Anyway, I do feel like things are going in the right direction.
While I wasn't into the idea of drafting Weeden, I do recognize that Colt has some things that go against him. He doesn't have a very good arm and his timing on his throws is sometimes very off. When we drafted Colt, I was expecting a much more accurate QB.
What drafting Weeden shows me is that the FO and coaching staff, really think that Colt McCoy's flaws are hindering the offense. I didn't think that this was the case originally, but that is what is apparent. They work with this guy in practice, they have the best view of the game, and they watch the games over and over again. That guy who used to be the Miami OC, whatever his name is, knows McCoy up and down.
Obviously, they felt that Brandon Weeden would significantly upgrade the QB position. It's not like they're trying to sabotage the Browns and just picking guys without thinking about it.........
I'm very interested in seeing how today goes, and I'm praying we get a RT to handle a problem that's plagued our O-Line for years.
But overall, I do think that we finally have a decent organization. And that some people here want to rip it apart seems ridiculous to me. Heckert screwed up with Hardesty so far. That's it. McCoy was a third round pick. I do wish that Heckert was better at not drafting guys who have injury issues, but so far last year and this year; he didn't do that.
I'd really like to give this FO and coaching staff a real chance. And some people on here are just so doom and gloom. I want to watch the Browns, see an improved offense and a decent defense, and look forward to another year of building ourselves a real team. We need talent before we can become good. That takes patience.
We've had so little talent for so long, I mean, what past player on the Browns was a "good" player on any other team. Lance Moore? lol. Kamerion Wimbley was decent with the Raiders. Jeff Faine (couldn't cut it in the AFC North). KW2, got a 2nd round pick for him (which we probably squandered), and he blocked probably worse than Evan Moore. Braylon had a good year with the Jets, and now he can't find a team. Andra Davis (what happened to him?) and Andre Johnson (or Davis, the WR who was tall and fast and had a good rookie year for us awhile back). Oh, and Super Bowl Champ Shaun O'Hara! So, in reality, this organization has been a mess for awhile. Brodney Pool played well with the Jets, but I didn't want those concussions on my conscience. I was happy to let Brod go, although I loved him as a player.
Finally, I see us getting good players. Phil Taylor, Sheard; both these guys could start on most teams in the NFL. Joe Haden, he'd start anywhere. TJ Ward is one of the better safeties (and hopefully he can keep moving these injuries behind him). Greg Little was one of the better rookie receivers last year, coming off not playing or practicing really at all the year before. D'Qwell Jackson won like comeback player of the year or something like that. And Joe Thomas, of course, is the best player at his position probably in football. Or at least one of the top 3.
I do like where we're headed, and when I see these decisions and i'm like I just try to have faith in Heckert, because he's picked better than anybody we've had since coming back in 99 or 2000 or whatever. Just gotta be patient, find a system and let it be put in place.
We do need stability. That's essential. We won't get better without it. So when I see people say "If we don't win 7 games next year, everyone should get fired", that's ridiculous. There's so many factors that go into a season. What if a key player is injured, what if many key players are injured. There's just too many factors. I don't like doing things like that. I like watching, seeing the situation as it is, and making my opinion based on that
I haven't read any posts but I know some are melting down but I'll tell ya something, I like the selections..sure I wanted Weeden later but it didn't happen for the same reason Heckert had to move to get TR @3...so I WON'T COMPLAIN one bit..people the still have 10 picks..
Quote: I haven't read any posts but I know some are melting down but I'll tell ya something, I like the selections..sure I wanted Weeden later but it didn't happen for the same reason Heckert had to move to get TR @3...so I WON'T COMPLAIN one bit..people the still have 10 picks..
I thought we lost three in the Richardson pick and then used a pick on Richardson and a pick on Weeden. That's 13 down to 8. 8 Picks left. Of course, how many of those are comp. picks?
If we can somehow get ourselves a RT and WR in the 2nd round (trade up with our third and a fourth, may be next year's third or fourth), we'll be looking pretty good.
Must draft one of Glenn, Martin, or Massie at 37. We have to protect our two new 1st round investments. We can find a WR later much easier than a stud RT (plus, our WR should be greatly improved with a "real" QB throwing them the ball). I am going to be very upset if we don't find a RT in this draft and it leads to Weeden/Richardson getting killed.
Quote: I'm a big fan of Nick Toon out of Wisconsin.
Since he'll be there in the 3rd, I'd be okay with going Johnathan Martin at #37 if he's there, then Nick Toon at #67.
See, I want Cordy Glenn. He's a big boy but still an athlete.
He'd do a great job opening up holes for Richardson and he can withstand a bull rush, that's for sure. But I'd still be okay with Martin too. Or even this Massie guy. Just someone who can man the RT spot and do a decent job
I have my doubts about Weeden as well guys but if you watch some of his games you have to admit the basic skills are there. I love the overhead type delivery, very quick release, arm strength and touch when he needs it. Some of the throws he makes here, Colt would have to wind up 3 times to make.
None of those seasons ended with the Browns making the playoffs.
Shall I go back further?
Let's take a look at the last 10 years.
In 2006, the Browns went 4-12.
In 2005, the Browns went 6-10.
In 2004, the Browns went 4-12.
In 2003, the Browns went 5-11.
In 2002, the Browns went 9-7 and made the playoffs.
Now, since we've done that, let's take a look at how many head coaches and front offices we've had over that span.
From 2002 through mid-season 2004, the Browns had HC Butch Davis. To be fair, Davis was also the HC in 2001. He quit on the team and Terry Robiskie was given the interim job.
From 2005 through 2008, the Browns had HC Romeo Crennel.
In 2009 and 2010, the Browns had HC Eric Mangini.
Last year, we had a new HC and a new scheme under Pat Shurmur.
Under Davis' regime, we had 3 different starting QBs (Couch, Holcomb, Garcia) in those 4 seasons.
Under Crennel's leadership, we had 3 more different starting QBs (Dilfer, Frye, Anderson) in 4 seasons.
Then, under Mangini two-year reign, we got two more starting QBs (Quinn, McCoy).
Now, under Shurmur, in only his second season, we're going on QB #2 (McCoy, Weeden).
Tell me why you think that the pattern in Cleveland will change? Will Shurmur get 3 years instead of 2 or 4? Will Holmgren & Heckert have their jobs if the Browns don't make the playoffs? What if the Browns suffer yet another 4 or 5 win season?
There was, when the schedule was released, an article on NFL.com (the league's own website) stating that the Browns could start 0-13! I think it's since been removed but there are many articles referencing it.
The article had asked the question 'Guess when the Browns get their first win' in a comedic game show type of fashion.
I think the Browns could, with Weeden as the field general and this front office making the decisions, actually go 0-16. It won't matter that Richardson is on the team and it won't matter that the best player on the team is still the team's LT, Joe Thomas.
Let's just be candid about this team and this franchise. It sucks from ownership down to the front office to the product on the field.
I think it's funny that either of you are making judgments on a guy who hasn't even stepped on an NFL practice field.
This is what we know. Our coaching staff/front office doesn't think Colt McCoy is a starting QB. No one has any clue how Weeden will perform, but if McCoy wasn't the answer we needed a QB.
That's a fair question. I really can't say. All I can say is that I had expected that the front office had their man as the HC. I never thought he'd do double duty as the OC also. That's not McCoy's fault though. What I actually think happened was that McCoy ended up paying for Shumur being so far over his head that he'd have drowned had it not been Holmgren holding his head above water (his hiring being Holmgren's decision).
Quote: I think it's funny that either of you are making judgments on a guy who hasn't even stepped on an NFL practice field.
This is what we know. Our coaching staff/front office doesn't think Colt McCoy is a starting QB. No one has any clue how Weeden will perform, but if McCoy wasn't the answer we needed a QB.
I think its funny that we're going to have at least 18 more months of Weeden debating. In fact, we should just do auto correct on every post about McCoy for the last two years and put Weeden's name in. I LOVE being a browns fan.
Posted by Michael David Smith on April 27, 2012, 3:43 PM EDT
AP Kurt Warner didn’t start an NFL game until he was 28 years old, but when he finally became a starter he made the most of it, winning the MVP in 1999 and the Super Bowl MVP that postseason. That sounds like a good path for Brandon Weeden to follow.
Weeden, the Browns’ second first-round pick on Thursday night, knows he has a very long way to go before anyone will compare him to Warner for any reason other than the late start to his NFL career. But in a conversation with Warner on NFL Network, Weeden said that as a 28-year-old rookie, he’s using Warner as a role model.
“As you know, maturity, leadership, how you go about business in a locker room, I think that goes a long way — especially playing this position,” Weeden told Warner. “I use you as an example all the time. You had a tremendous career, won a lot of games starting at 28, all the way through your 30s and had a fantastic career. I’m not comparing myself to you — I hope to be mentioned in the same sentence as you — but longevity-wise, I think I’ve got a lot of football left in my tank. If I can play for eight, 10, 12 years, that’s a heck of an NFL career and something I would take a lot of pride in.”
Weeden referred to Browns quarterback Colt McCoy as “a great player,” but he said he’s looking forward to competing with McCoy. The Browns will have a good pick if Weeden is better than McCoy. If Weeden can become anything like Warner, they’ll have a great pick.
I'll remind you though that it is Holmgren himself that says that 6 wins won't be acceptable next year. He said that 5 wins wasn't enough when he fired Mangini and the team proceeded to lose 1 more game than Mangini after firing him.
I was willing to give them the benefit of the doubt. I didn't mind the Richardson pick because I thought that they were finally getting some legitimate weapons around McCoy. Then when they chose Weeden at #22, I lost all faith in them. The good feeling I had about the Richardson pick (despite the trade up - which I don't think was necessary), evaporated and then some.
I have no faith whatsoever in them. None. Sure, they have drafted some good players on defense - namely Haden, Taylor and Sheard, but Rubin was a 6th round pick by Mangini and D'qwell Jackson was selected by Crennel / Phil Savage. I won't include TJ Ward on the list of good players just yet. I like him, but I'm not giving him the benefit yet of being a good selection.
Honestly, I'm ambivalent until this front office is dispatched. To take that further, I want Randy Lerner to sell the team that knows that a football is oblong and not round.
Quote: I thought we lost three in the Richardson pick and then used a pick on Richardson and a pick on Weeden. That's 13 down to 8. 8 Picks left. Of course, how many of those are comp. picks?
We have 4 comp picks, all of them 6th and 7th rounders. None of them are before the selection #200 of the draft. We have 4 picks in the last 50 picks or so of the draft. Woohoo! Maybe we can get first round talent in the 6th and 7th rounds!
Quote: If we can somehow get ourselves a RT and WR in the 2nd round (trade up with our third and a fourth, may be next year's third or fourth), we'll be looking pretty good.
It won't matter. They'll reach for a player just like they have proven to do when doing a straight trade up. Don't give me Richardson because drafting him in the Top 5 wasn't a problem in my estimation.
Quote: I was willing to give them the benefit of the doubt. I didn't mind the Richardson pick because I thought that they were finally getting some legitimate weapons around McCoy. Then when they chose Weeden at #22, I lost all faith in them. The good feeling I had about the Richardson pick (despite the trade up - which I don't think was necessary), evaporated and then some.
That's fair. I just think you need to take a deep breath. Try to look forward to this season, or at least give this team a chance, and hopefully you'll be pleasantly surprised.
Just don't have your face in the ground and not recognize that we're making improvements.
Should we have let go of Mangini from the start, yes. That set us back, system wise, by a year. But that's in the past, and you've gotta look toward the future IMO. I didn't want us to fire Mangini before his first season with Holmgren, and I only was onboard with the decision when Mangini repeatedly played Jake "Gimmie A Break!" Delhomme over Seneca Wallace. Man did that . me off. But while it was a mistake to keep Mangini another season when you know he doesn't fit the way you run things, you don't want to judge him on it too harshly if the team is finally headed in a positive direction.
There's nothing that can be done now either. The coach and president and manager won't be fired until January (if they're fired). So I'm just saying, for your own sake (so your spring, summer, and early fall can be better), go into this year with an open mind instead of being negative and upset. YTown came around (although all it took was replacing Colt, lol). Wait until mid-season and the off-season before condemning this regime and running them out of town.
It's no fun beginning the season with the idea that the team is hopeless. That's what New York Mets fans do. And those folks are a sorry bunch
Posted by Michael David Smith on April 27, 2012, 3:43 PM EDT
AP Kurt Warner didn’t start an NFL game until he was 28 years old, but when he finally became a starter he made the most of it, winning the MVP in 1999 and the Super Bowl MVP that postseason. That sounds like a good path for Brandon Weeden to follow.
Weeden, the Browns’ second first-round pick on Thursday night, knows he has a very long way to go before anyone will compare him to Warner for any reason other than the late start to his NFL career. But in a conversation with Warner on NFL Network, Weeden said that as a 28-year-old rookie, he’s using Warner as a role model.
“As you know, maturity, leadership, how you go about business in a locker room, I think that goes a long way — especially playing this position,” Weeden told Warner. “I use you as an example all the time. You had a tremendous career, won a lot of games starting at 28, all the way through your 30s and had a fantastic career. I’m not comparing myself to you — I hope to be mentioned in the same sentence as you — but longevity-wise, I think I’ve got a lot of football left in my tank. If I can play for eight, 10, 12 years, that’s a heck of an NFL career and something I would take a lot of pride in.”
Weeden referred to Browns quarterback Colt McCoy as “a great player,” but he said he’s looking forward to competing with McCoy. The Browns will have a good pick if Weeden is better than McCoy. If Weeden can become anything like Warner, they’ll have a great pick.
Quote: If Weeden can become anything like Warner, they’ll have a great pick.
Love the Kurt Warner story. You know, he wasnt that bad as a Giant either, they just thought he was washed up with his hurt thumb and immediately put in Eli (although the Giants were having a winning season).
Kurt's got a quick release and can throw the ball when the heat is coming. He credited the AFL or whatever for that. I sure hope that Weeden can do that too, especially if we can't figure out this RT situation.
Quote: If Weeden can become anything like Warner, they’ll have a great pick.
Love the Kurt Warner story. You know, he wasnt that bad as a Giant either, they just thought he was washed up with his hurt thumb and immediately put in Eli (although the Giants were having a winning season).
Kurt's got a quick release and can throw the ball when the heat is coming. He credited the AFL or whatever for that. I sure hope that Weeden can do that too, especially if we can't figure out this RT situation.
Problem, of course, is that they are nothing alike in their stories. Warner played football out of college for years before the NFL. Weeden was playing baseball. Drew Henson is a better comparison.
Even Henson is not a good comparison. Henson played college football, then baseball, then football again.
Chris Weinke is the only guy that I can think of that played minor league baseball, then went back to college and played football, then to the NFL. Let's hope Weeden is more successful than Weinke.
Quote: Chris Weinke is the only guy that I can think of that played minor league baseball, then went back to college and played football, then to the NFL. Let's hope Weeden is more successful than Weinke.
Sorry bud, you, YOU were the one griping about all of colt's shortcomings last year. YOU were constantly ripping on him as being the reason for our suckiness on offense, regardless of any of the facts of having NO running game, etc, etc. YOU constantly blamed Colt for ALL problems on offense.
You got your wish. We drafted a first round qb. However, you seem to be backing off your expectations already. ALREADY?????
Must be neat to live in your world. Seriously - go back and read your posts from this past season and off season.
Hey, bud, you got your wish.
I'm expecting 8-8 at a MINIMUM. If we don't hit that with your first round qb and a stud r.b..............can them all, right?
Comparing Weeden to Warner is laughable. MM, Little, and Norwood could carry Bruce's, Holt's or Proal's luggage. But I guess according to the Colt haters Weeden (or most other QBs) should make these jokers into HOF types. Right?
Quote: Comparing Weeden to Warner is laughable. MM, Little, and Norwood could carry Bruce's, Holt's or Proal's luggage. But I guess according to the Colt haters Weeden (or most other QBs) should make these jokers into HOF types. Right?
Being a Colt "hater" and a Weeden supporter have nothing to do with each other. I personally think both QBs suck.
Quote: I'm expecting 8-8 at a MINIMUM. If we don't hit that with your first round qb and a stud r.b..............can them all, right?
What if Weeden gets injured? What if Joe Thomas gets injured? What if Joe Haden gets injured?
Bad things can happen in a season. I think putting records down as the mark as to whether we fire an organization or not is ridiculous. Let's watch the games, understand the circumstances, and make a decision based on that
Sick of everyone jumping on Weeden as if he is some scrub. He outplayed all the other QBs selected before him when he played them head to head. His only knock at this point is his age. He's got the size, smarts, and ability.
Regardless if he pans out or not Colt isn't the answer either, the team needed to give the offense an opportunity to be successful, they didn't believe Colt gave them a chance, and I don't blame them.
Quote: Sick of everyone jumping on Weeden as if he is some scrub. He outplayed all the other QBs selected before him when he played them head to head. His only knock at this point is his age. He's got the size, smarts, and ability.
Regardless if he pans out or not Colt isn't the answer either, the team needed to give the offense an opportunity to be successful, they didn't believe Colt gave them a chance, and I don't blame them.
Did you see Baylor's D? Most decent QBs shredded them. Head to head means nothing. RG3 had to play against OSU's D and vice versa. That 'out played' arguement means nothing unless both teams line up against the same D.
Quote: I'm expecting 8-8 at a MINIMUM. If we don't hit that with your first round qb and a stud r.b..............can them all, right?
What if Weeden gets injured? What if Joe Thomas gets injured? What if Joe Haden gets injured?
Bad things can happen in a season. I think putting records down as the mark as to whether we fire an organization or not is ridiculous. Let's watch the games, understand the circumstances, and make a decision based on that
Interesting theory. It didn't fly last year though, so why should we change this year, right? Injuries were no excuse last year, they damn well won't be this year.
Well I guess H&H's plan was to see for sure if Colt was the problem. Weeden is going to have basically the same team around him that Colt did. He will be throwing to the same targets. Let's see what he can do.
(I understand TR>Hillis. Cousins at RT at least has experience over our rookie. While the rook may be an upgrade in the long term I don't know that we'll see that this season.)
Quote: Well I guess H&H's plan was to see for sure if Colt was the problem. Weeden is going to have basically the same team around him that Colt did. He will be throwing to the same targets. Let's see what he can do.
May I introduce you #33 Trent Richardson, arguably best player in the draft, and new centerpiece to our offense. Trent Richardson tore up NCAA when everyone loaded the box on him and now he's going to have to do it again.
The only thing Weeden will be able to compare himself with Warner is they will both have worked at giant Eagle...of course with Weeden finishing his career at Giant Eagle vs Warner starting his there......
I actually like Weeden as a player, but the problem is he's 28 years old and has never played in an NFL game............or taken a snap under center nonetheless. He's two years away from being productive (and that's if he works out). At that point he's 30-31 years old and his body is going the wrong way on him.
If we take him in the 2nd or 3rd round I'm fine............but at 22??? Just stupid considering the players that were on the board. I know Colt sucks......not a fan at all, but why reach when we aren't winning many games next year regardless. We will pick high again next year, but now we are stuck with a QB who might not be the prospect available to us next year. That's why you don't reach for need.
Loki Did you read the TR>Hillis part of my post? Yes TR is a stud. He was 'my' pick. I'm merely talking about Weeden having the same targets as Colt. Now we'll see if it's Colt's fault we led the league in drops or is it our laughable WR core. How many drive killing drops are we going to overlook before we start calling for Weeden's head? I like Weeden's arm. I just think he'll be in Depends undergarments by the time he adjusts to the NFL. OSU ran a hot read, hurry up, spread, shotgun O. He admits they barely huddled or called actual plays using pro style terminology. I'm behind the guy. I want nothing more than for the Browns to win. I'm just skeptical until given reason not to be. The Browns have given me no reason not to be.
He is 3 years older than Colt McCoy. I don't see the age thing as a huge problem. Colt McCoy is likely to be a former NFL player by the time he hits 28. I don't say that to be hateful, but because I just don't see the ability there. I honestly do not see him ever starting another game, barring disaster.
McCoy is 25. he will be 26 when the season starts. Is there really that big a difference in age between him and Weeden?
I think you are discounting how much TRich will mean to this team. TRich could be as good as AP. The best thing about RB is that they are day 1 starters who do not need to adjust as much as any other position. Add in the fact Schwartz is probably better than anyone that played RT last year and the run game has been upgraded tremendously. QB's best friend is a running game and play action. I expect the Browns to run a WCO with an emphasis on TRich like the Seahawks did when Alexender was there.
My prediction is 1300 yards rushing and 400 yards receiving and 15 TDs and OROY honors.
We can give Weeden a dozen or so plays to learn, and I bet he'll have them down by the end of training camp. Add in the runs, and I think he'll be just fine.
One thing I know is this ..... he won't ignore an uncovered receiver on the outside. That happens again next year and it'll be 6 baby.
I look at every other QB in our division who had to learn to play under Center coming in from the spread, and those guys adjusted just fine. I suspect that Weeden will too.
Yep he will start this year....and struggle like rookies do. He'll struggle, reading D's, staring down WRs, etc. because they all do. Let's say you and me are right and he can make the NFL transition....well by the time he starts really getting it he's on the wrong side of 30 and the body starts breaking down.
Sorry but his age is a HUGE deal. Your talking about getting 0-2 prime years for a 22nd pick. I don't like Colt at QB either, but that is utterly stupid. If we traded the 3rd and 5th to move up in the latter half of the 2nd I would have defended the pick based on how bad our current QB play is, but 22nd for a guy who in theory could never play a true prime year for you?.....stupid.
Why are we assuming that Weeden's body is going to break down in his early 30's?
Sure, normally QB's don't play until they are 40, but most all of the QB's who came into the league late have been able to play well into their late 30's and some into their 40's.
Quote: I look at every other QB in our division who had to learn to play under Center coming in from the spread, and those guys adjusted just fine. I suspect that Weeden will too.
Name one of our receivers that would start for any of the other AFCN teams. I've never seen a WR fight less for a ball that is in the air than MM. I've never seen a WR fight so hard for a ball that is in the air than AJ Green. Weeden has his work cut out for him. I'm a fan of Little. Let's hope he makes a big leap or Weeden is going to look like a repeat of every QB we've had since our return.
Quote: I look at every other QB in our division who had to learn to play under Center coming in from the spread, and those guys adjusted just fine. I suspect that Weeden will too.
Name one of our receivers that would start for any of the other AFCN teams. I've never seen a WR fight less for a ball that is in the air than MM. I've never seen a WR fight so hard for a ball that is in the air than AJ Green. Weeden has his work cut out for him. I'm a fan of Little. Let's hope he makes a big leap or Weeden is going to look like a repeat of every QB we've had since our return.
We'll see what happens when our receivers have a QB who can actually throw a decent pass their direction.
Weeden may play until he's 50, but those aren't his best years...aka the prime of a man's life. Favre could still get a check if he wanted to, but no none is going to compare 2010 Favre with the guy that won all of those MVPs anytime soon. You guys are acting like because he's 28 there isn't the normal learning curve for rookie QBs. He is going to struggle next year. He'll get somewhat better hopefully year two, but the light isn't going to come on completely more than likely until year three. At that point dude is turning 32 years old and we are silently already looking for his replacement.
This is assuming he works out. If not then we wasted not only a 22nd pick, but will have missed an opportunity to draft a potential high valued prospect at QB next year......and sorry, but with that schedule we aren't winning more than 6 games.
We will have to agree to disagree on this one, but this is the worst 1st round pick I can think of in a while......well since I bagged on the BE pick...lol
Quote: I look at every other QB in our division who had to learn to play under Center coming in from the spread, and those guys adjusted just fine. I suspect that Weeden will too.
Name one of our receivers that would start for any of the other AFCN teams. I've never seen a WR fight less for a ball that is in the air than MM. I've never seen a WR fight so hard for a ball that is in the air than AJ Green. Weeden has his work cut out for him. I'm a fan of Little. Let's hope he makes a big leap or Weeden is going to look like a repeat of every QB we've had since our return.
We'll see what happens when our receivers have a QB who can actually throw a decent pass their direction.
Maybe they'll only drop 35 passes this year. That'll be a huge improvement.
Quote: You guys are acting like because he's 28 there isn't the normal learning curve for rookie QBs. He is going to struggle next year. He'll get somewhat better hopefully year two, but the light isn't going to come on completely more than likely until year three. At that point dude is turning 32 years old and we are silently already looking for his replacement.
I agree with ya. I loved the TR selection at #3, just love it, but we used a #22 pick on a QB who'll turn 29 in a few months?
Like others said, by the time he's in his "prime", he'll likely be 32 or 33 and then we'll reach the point where we start worrying about our next quarterback of the future.
If the kid can play, then he can play. If he turns out able to play, then he could have a 6-10 year career ahead of him. Given that the bums we've paraded through Berea over the past 9 years or so have had an average shelf life of about 1.1 seasons ...... I could deal quite nicely with a QB giving us 6-10 high quality years.
Plus, if he stabilizes the QB position, we can then go about developing a QB the right way instead of always having to draft them and throw them in the fire.
I like the pick a lot. I would have preferred Luck or RG3, obviously, but I feel that Weeden will wind up being a really good pick for the Cleveland Browns in the long run.
Quote: I think it is very significant, when you're talking about the "lifespan" of an NFL quarterback.
What do you think are the biggest factors in an NFL QB's lifespan? I'd say they're his health and his skills, and I think those are pretty safe, "Captain Obvious" answers.
Let's assume for a moment that Weeden's skills are up there with those of QBs who've been at least pretty good, if not great (because if the skills aren't there, then his age becomes a moot point). How many seasons does an above average QB last in the NFL before getting beat up week after week takes its toll in the form of diminishing his skill set? Brady has played 12 seasons, is 34, and looks like he's got another 5 seasons left. Peyton Manning had 13 before his neck injury, and we're about to find out how many more seasons he has in him. Kurt Warner played 11 seasons before deciding to retire at 38, and probably could've played until he was 40.
Point is, if the skillset is there, there's no reason Weeden can't give us 10 years at QB. Two of the three best QBs in this league will be 33 and 35 when the 2012 season begins, the ages Weeden will be a month into his 4th and 6th seasons as a pro. Those guys aren't showing any signs of slowing down and they've both got a decade-plus of NFL punishment under their belts, and both have had significant injuries to boot.
Cue people bashing me saying I'm comparing Weeden to Brady or Manning or Brees
IF he stabilizes the qb position, THEN we can go about developing a qb the RIGHT way instead of throwing them into the fire.
The way it sounds, Weeden is going to get thrown into the fire.
Sound familiar to what the Browns have done over the years?
Draft a qb to have him sit and learn - change mind after a few games, throw the new guy in, ruin him, then draft again. Although this time it sounds like the new guy is the starter right now, as opposed to giving him a year to sit. (sounds that way - we'll see come opening day).
I'm expecting a LOT from our first round qb.
On a side note - Weeden's age doesn't bother me at all. So he's older than Aaron Rodgers..........so what?
People that are letting his age bother them, saying things like "his body is going to start breaking down",......they forget that he spent, what, 6 years playing baseball?
He's got no more wear and tear on him than any other qb coming out of college.
A body's "breakdown" occurs from one of 2 things. The first thing would be repeated hits over years. Weeden doesn't have any more or any less of that than any other qb. The second thing would be that one big hit that separates a shoulder, or knee, etc. And that can happen to any player on any given play. (as for qb's - it's much more likely with a "running" qb, and Weeden doesn't appear to be that type of qb.)
My problem with Weeden is he's a second round qb the Browns reached for with a first round pick. His accuracy is nothing special. (comparing his college throws to any other nfl qb's college throws)
Strong arm? Great. What's that mean?
Can he play under center, or are we going to run all shot gun plays this year?
Some (me) might say Blackmon made Weeden. Others (you?) might say Weeden made Blackmon.
In watching some more of his college games, as that's all anyone has to go on at this time, I didn't see superb accuracy. No more so than most top flight college programs qb's. I didn't see him hitting "nfl open" receivers. Can't fault him for that as he was playing the college game. But I will say "open" in the nfl is generally much different than "open" in college. That's not a plus or minus for him - it's just a fact.
But, we got our first round qb.
I expect a LOT from him in terms of points scored per game, yards thrown for per game, and wins. I also don't expect him to get 3 years to put it all together. Why? He's a first round qb - it will all be there this year, right?
I also expect a no excuses attitude. He'll be coming in with a full camp, a good running back, and an improved line. (hopefully improved line).
Arch is just mad because McCoy is on his way out of town.
I fully expect Weeden to be an upgrade over McCoy, however he may struggle at times, especially early. We are going to have a rookie QB, RB, and RT, so pass protection breakdowns are almost inevitable. Regardless, I fully expect Weeden to be effective where McCoy was ineffective.
I do not expect a repeat of last year's 13.6 points per game debacle. I do expect that our offense will look considerably more professional, even with the rookies, and that we will no longer see wide open (or completely uncovered) receivers waving their hands futilely in the air as the QB ignores them to throw a 2-3 yard pass to the middle of the defense instead.
I think that our offense will take major steps forward. Do I expect perfection? Obviously not. No one should. (unless they are spiteful, and looking for problems even if we improve dramatically ..... and I fully expect that there will be a couple of posters with that attitude even if we improve on offense by leaps and bounds) Regardless, I suspect that we will start the year in a somewhat limited fashion on offense, as we did last year, but I would be willing to bet that we expand the offense as the year goes by, instead of having to contract it as we did last year.
Hilarious dude!!!! I'm upset because Colt appears to be on his way out of town? Seriously?
Sorry bud, couldn't be more wrong.
See, I'm a BROWNS fan. I don't CARE who the qb is. Please, get that through your skull, could you?
What I WILL do is hold Weeden to the same standards you have held our past qb's. If you can't deal with it, ignore me, or quit posting. It's fairly simple bud.
What I find amazingly humorous is you are now backing off your expectations of Colt. Your hatred of Colt is well known. More than well known.
You have repeatedly, almost to the point of absurdity - blamed last season on Colt, single handedly holding the team back.
I, on the other hand, looked at the TEAM. Your only response to my logic is, was, and has been: "oh, Arch is a Colt lover".
Makes you look petty and uninformed to those with an open mind.
However, I will play your game. We have upgraded our line (hopefully). We have a stud running back. And we got the first round qb you desired.
There WILL be huge improvements in our team..............or, you'll look even dumber than you did this past year blaming everything on Colt. And for the record, I don't care what the qb's name was last year. YOU, sir, blamed everything on the qb - unless his name was Seneca - then you almost wet yourself over how much of an upgrade he was over the other qb.
YOUR hatred and blame towards Colt is my issue. You're going to get proven right, or wrong, come this season.
I most certainly do NOT expect to see or hear you lay out excuses for Weeden. He's a first round pick, with a stud back, and what we hope is an improved line.
Last year, according to you, all we needed was a qb. You got your wish. You made your bed. But the way you're posting now.......seems like your backing off your claims that the qb was the problem.
You talk in circles, blathering on incoherently about the most insignificant minutia, and now you are preparing for our future QB to fail because ....... I didn't like Colt McCoy as a QB, and didn't feel that he had the ability to be an NFL QB ..... and our front office evidently agrees?
Wow. That's being pretty petty dude. Plus, and I don't really know how to break this to you ..... but I simply don't have that much power within the Browns front office. They don't call me every day for advice ....... it's only been once or twice a week this off-season.
For the record, I never said that our only problem was McCoy, but rather that our BIGGEST problem, BY FAR, was McCoy.
There is a significant difference.
When you can't tell the difference between the starting QB and the bum backup, even when the bum backup is forced to play without the starting and backup TE, and slot receiver .... then there's a major problem. When a receiver and team leader like Josh Cribbs says that he "looks forward" to how the offense will look with said bum backup .... then there's a problem with the starter.
Colt McCoy might as well pack his bags today. He is done in Cleveland, and he is done as a starting NFL QB. There is not one NFL team who would substitute him for their starter. I don't even think that the Jaguars would .... because there guy as a rookie was Colt McCoy as a 2nd year player.
I am going to go root for the Cleveland Browns. You can root against them if you like, hoping for a player to fail so you can be "right".
I have always said that I would happily be wrong about a player when I said they stink. I said that I would own up to it as well. I did so last year with both Little and DQ. I was HAPPY to be wrong.
I get the feeling that it would make you miserable beyond words if Weeden succeeds. I also doubt that you will say anything good about him if he does, instead going back to petty nitpicking. I can hear you now ........ "We went from 13 PPG to 60? Shoulda been 62. A good QB woulda got us to 70."
I think that it will be Weeden's fault if the receivers are thrown into bad situations.
I don;t expect that to happen though.
How many dropped passes did Wallace have in his 3 starts? I think 2 by the normally reliable Norwood ...... but that's really all I can remember.
Anyone else remember any other drops when Wallace was in the game?
Edit to add: Also, Watson is normally reliable, and last year he had 7 drops. I think that he had 1 in 2010. It seemed like every receiver we had hit career highs in drops last year.
You make it sound like all 40+ drops were because of ball placement. I can recall MANY hitting Little in the hands, in stride or just standing still in a curl route... Yet dropped. I don't care where the ball is placed. If it hits your hands you have to catch it. Be it thrown by a QB or my nephew.
Quote: You talk in circles, blathering on incoherently about the most insignificant minutia,
I do? What would that be?
Quote:
and now you are preparing for our future QB to fail because ....... I didn't like Colt McCoy as a QB, and didn't feel that he had the ability to be an NFL QB ..... and our front office evidently agrees?
I'M preparing Weeden to fail? I'M WANTING Weeden to fail? Seriously? Weeden is everything YOU said was needed: tall, big, big arm............dude, all last year you blamed everything on Colt. It would appear Weeden will be the starter. But now you back off of what you expect? Hilarious!!!!
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For the record, I never said that our only problem was McCoy, but rather that our BIGGEST problem, BY FAR, was McCoy.
You got your wish. It would appear McCoy is either gone, or not the starter. You got your wish and your shiny brand new first round qb. I guess we'll see, right? I will hold this first round qb to the exact SAME standards YOU set, and posted over and over and over, as a third round qb. If you can't deal with it, pound sand.
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When you can't tell the difference between the starting QB and the bum backup, even when the bum backup is forced to play without the starting and backup TE, and slot receiver .... then there's a major problem.
What?
Quote:
When a receiver and team leader like Josh Cribbs says that he "looks forward" to how the offense will look with said bum backup .... then there's a problem with the starter.
Honestly, are you THAT stupid? Seriously?
Show me one single player in the nfl that would say anything different after the starting qb gets injured. Show me one, just ONE player that would say, after a starter gets injured, "well, the backup sucks, so we're screwed." Geez, dude, you make yourself sound stupid using Cribb's comment like you did.
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Colt McCoy might as well pack his bags today. He is done in Cleveland, and he is done as a starting NFL QB. There is not one NFL team who would substitute him for their starter. I don't even think that the Jaguars would .... because there guy as a rookie was Colt McCoy as a 2nd year player.
May very well be. Has he been traded yet?
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I am going to go root for the Cleveland Browns. You can root against them if you like, hoping for a player to fail so you can be "right".
Here, again, you sound like a stupid jerk. I root for the Browns, and I defend the Browns players. YOU, on the other hand? Actually, what you did all last season was pathetic. Again, if you can't deal with it, tough! YOU, sir, are the one that berated Colt, constantly. You got your wish. If you can't deal with it now, sucks to be you. YOU made your bed - lay in it.
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I get the feeling that it would make you miserable beyond words if Weeden succeeds.
So, you honestly think I would be miserable if the Browns were good? Honestly? Did you mean that? I cannot fathom a more stupid statement being made. I simply can't fathom it. That just blows my mind - that you think I would enjoy the Browns stinking.
Here's what I DO know - you blamed our past qb, and the one before that, and the one before that...............I have rooted for EVERY one of not only our qb's, BUT every player. YOU, sir, did nothing but berate our last qb. Look in a mirror bud. The guy looking back at you is NOT a fan, he's a bitcher.
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I also doubt that you will say anything good about him if he does, instead going back to petty nitpicking. I can hear you now ........ "We went from 13 PPG to 60? Shoulda been 62. A good QB woulda got us to 70."
Idiotic remarks are just that: Idiotic.
I still find it amazing that you are backing off your expectations ALREADY!!!!
And your only reply is "well, arch is mad about colt". Sad man, really.
I will be expecting out of Weeden exactly what you have said we'll get. YOU said it, not be bud.
If Weeden pans out, I will be the happiest guy around. I will be the first to say I was wrong.
If he doesn't - YOU will be the first to start laying out excuses for him. Excuses don't cut it, remember?
First, I don't know of a single Colt fan on this board. The strongest praise I've read was that the light might turn on this year. Hardly a ringing endorsement from a fanboi. Although there is a lot of hate, ahem.
We selected the 4th best QB of the draft, to sign the 4th best QB in the AFCN. This isn't something to get excited about.
His potential drops dramatically if he starts game 1. It isn't about age, its about adjusting to the pro game. It doesn't matter if you're 22 or 29. The 29 year old rookie isn't magically given the ability to be up to speed because of age.
IMHO, the Browns would be better served to let Colt start, and let Weeden get up to speed for a year. Colt is cheap, and would at least make a decent back-up. He won't be worth much in a trade.
Quote: You make it sound like all 40+ drops were because of ball placement. I can recall MANY hitting Little in the hands, in stride or just standing still in a curl route... Yet dropped. I don't care where the ball is placed. If it hits your hands you have to catch it. Be it thrown by a QB or my nephew.
And I have never said that either.
However, guys tend to get on rolls when this stuff starts. Guys get a concussion or 2, and they start dropping balls. They get tired of being belted as soon as they catch the ball, and they start dropping stuff.
I don't like it, but it happens.
Plus, receivers drop balls, Dwayne Bowe, who people were hoping we'd be able to get in free agency dropped the 2nd most passes last year. The most was by another high end receiver, but ai can't remember who, and I'm not looking it up.
Bottom line is that I think that our receivers will be greatly improved this year. I do not expect as many drops. Again, how many passes did Wallace have dropped on him? (even with backups playing significant minutes)
Terry Pluto spent part of Sunday talking to a vice president of an AFC team about what the Browns have done this weekend. Here's what the official had to say about Brandon Weeden.
"We had Weeden rated higher than (Ryan) Tannehill," said the executive. "Better arm, more experienced, more mature.
"The Browns had to take a shot with Weeden. They couldn't come back with Colt (McCoy) as a starter and expect a big change on offense. Weeden is more like (Bengals QB Andy) Dalton than he is like (Baltimore's Joe) Flacco or (Pittsburgh's Ben) Roethlisberger, but he should be an upgrade over Colt. We thought Colt couldn't consistently get the ball down field, no matter who they had at receiver."
Quote: Weeden is more like (Bengals QB Andy) Dalton than he is like (Baltimore's Joe) Flacco or (Pittsburgh's Ben) Roethlisberger
What is this supposed to mean? Is this about their arms? Weeden has a pretty strong arm, I think stronger than Dalton's. The guy was a pitcher for my New York Yankees. Stronger than Flacco's or Big Ben's? I dunno, but I bet as strong as or pretty damn close.
But what I do know is that next year he's going to come in prepared, and The Rocket is going to start lighting defenses up
Quote: Weeden and Dalton both have red hair, Flacco and Roethlisberger are both brunettes
I wish this was the case as to what I think they were referring too. But I kinda take this personally, and I think Bengals fans should too. Big Ben is an awesome QB, but the idea that Dalton (and for us, Weeden), isn't in the same class as Flacco is ridiculous
Time to make that sucka eat his words. I think Weeden will be pretty successful for us. Do I wish we had better targets? Yes, but I think our offense will be more productive with Weeden as our QB and I think he will attract FA WRs.
Besides, good QBs have done it without great players on their offense. And we have a similar offense to one of those. Donavan McNabb did it for years before TO came to town. Running guys like Todd Pinkston, Greg Lewis, Hank Baskett, (Justin Gage?)
T-Money and the Saffron Slinger are gonna do some work. Results will come
I have finally gotten around to watching the senior bowl which has been sitting on my DVR... I had just clicked on this thread to remark how weeden was doing well from under center, then he stumbled on step 2 of a five step drop, then flung an INT to Bobby Wagner. Man, I hope that's something he can correct by the time the season rolls around.
Quote: Big Ben is an awesome QB, but the idea that Dalton (and for us, Weeden), isn't in the same class as Flacco is ridiculous
He's not, at least not yet anyways. Andy Dalton pooped his pants in the playoffs. Joe Flacco showed some serious sack last post-season, and this is coming from one of his biggest critics. I've said the last few years that he's overrated and his honeymoon has lasted way too long.
Truth be told he shut me up in these playoffs. Can't pin that AFC chip game on him. He's a good quarterback.
Big Ben is elite, he has two rings, and makes a ton of plays by using his feet (still hate him) Joe Flacco is a notch down, he's in that group with Matty Ice and Jay Cutler who are good QB's but have yet to take that next step.
Dalton is a quarterback with some prmoise, but he is going to have that Houston game haunt him for some time.
Weeden? Who knows. We won't have any idea until Philadelphia.
Man ... imagine the meltdown if that happens ...... 
there is no high floor for a RB today.
