Thoughts on E.J. Manuel QB/Florida State and trade down scenario?

No Thanks...We'd be replacing one problem with another problem, and using a 1st round pick for that is crazy.

Only way I'd use a 1st round pick for a QB is if Luck type QB was availible and well there isnt any this year, so lets take a OLB or CB and see what's availible in the later rounds,

I'm not oposed to taking a Landry Jones in the 4th or 5th but we all know what would happen, bye the 5th or 6th game were all yelling for him to start and he wouldnt be ready. Lets stop feeding young QB's to the dogs.

I like EJ Manuel as much as any QB in this class (I understand why Geno is ranked ahead of him though).

I think there's too much risk with him to use that plan though.

Weak QB class with several guys "bunched up" in similar rankings.
After 2 years of QB runs in the 1st round, not as much demand for early QBs.
Weeden is part of that ^^^ group, we've got a chance that he will be fine.

I think its the perfect year to wait and see which one of the top QB falls into the mid-rounds.If its a guy we rated as one of the best in the draft, make a move to get an add'l 3rd rounder or wait until the 4th if we're confident no one in front of us is going after a QB.

Now if Norv and Chud thinks Manuel or one of these guys is "The Man" that's a different story. If not, I don't see much reason to jump early.

"A weak QB class" who says, who truly knows, this could turn out to be a great QB class, now I'm not saying it will be or won't be, I'm just tired of these so called "experts" who are guessing just like us!!! JMHO

I would be ALL for taking Manuel in the 1st. Ok, maybe if I had the big stick in picking for the draft...I wouldn't have the fortitude to make that pick....but I would be excited if we did it. I think Manuel is going to be the best QB in this draft, and a very good QB overall. Not ELITE but very good...definitely good enough for the playoffs. He's big, accurate, fairly fast, and has a big arm. Plus he is really smart. I've been saying for months now that I want him in the 2nd...but he won't last past the Eagles in the 2nd...we'd have to get him in the 1st near the bottom. I have no idea how to pull that off, unless we do another huge trade down like we did with Atlanta years ago. I'd make them pay dearly for that big jump though.

Eagles will take Geno in Round One. No way EJ goes in first, and probably not in No. 2. There are other interesting guys to consider, but if he's there in Third, maybe.

I think this QB class is much stronger than it has been given credit for. I like it better than the Cam Newton class but similar to that class, it is more of a developmental class than a ready to roll class like last year. I don't know if any QB should go in the first but we all know they will.

It is all about potential with this class and noone has more of it than Manuel. I wouldnt spend a first on him but someone probably will. I hold my ground and take a QB in the 3rd with Landry Jones or Bray. Manuel is going to come off late first.

I was just thinking about the Cam Newton class (2011)..

So we have Newton, Locker, Gabbert, Ponder, Dalton, Kaepernick..

I find it funny at this point that Locker and Gabbert went so high, but we are debating whether or not Geno should be a top 10 selection. (Though I realize you can easily argue both sides of that.) Especially when arguably Kaepernick is the most talented QB in the draft (he went 1 pick after Dalton and 1 pick before Sheard).

I don't see the hit rates on finding an Elite QB being very good.. Even when we are looking at the 2nd QB selected (as a top 10 pick), it is still pretty shaky. Heck, even top selected QB's (Bradford, Smith, among obvious others) don't seem to pan out consistently.

I've got to say stick with Weeden and go all-in on an elite QB when we can. Are the chances of these 3rd round QBs materializing going to be worth not picking up a starting FS, TE, or Guard? If you look at the drafts of Frye and McCoy some talent came off the board at lesser positions shortly after they were selected.

Warning: Hindsight: I'd rather have Justin Tuck and Jimmy Graham over Charlie Frye and Colt McCoy

If any of these 3rd rounders shape up to be a Schaub, Wilson (or heck even Kirk Cousins).... I will gladly eat some crow. I haven't watched squat of their game play and know some of them have good to great arms. It seems to me that is all Chud really needs in a QB. Statistically I favor going to lesser positions at that point, but if the players have a shot at panning out in this offense then by all means take a QB.

EJ Manuel is a better passer right now than Cam was when he came out, Cam is a better athlete but Manuel is a smart kid and Cam is well not lol. Geno, Barkley and Jones are much better passers with a higher level of accuracy than Gabbert, Locker and Ponder. It is really not even close.

Gabbert was a 2 year developmental guy when they took him and then decided to throw him to the wolves. I see a lot of these kids with that same type of developmental ability if you will develop him. Dalton well he still sucks and honestly, Kapernick imho is a flash in the pan runner that will be forgotten soon enough. That entire class were really horrible with accuracy. Gabbert was probably the best of the bunch.

This group consists of better arms and better accuracy.

Any thoughts on why so many went in the first round in 2011, but arguably the better passers this season are predicted to fall out of the first entirely?

Heh.. could it be because of the failures of 2011?

I think the QB classes had been so weak that people bought into nothing but potential. Teams were desperate.

This time around, teams aren't as desperate but it seems like a lot of teams are positioning themselves to get a QB at the end of the first. I didnt think a QB would go in the first a couple months ago but now, I could see Geno, Manuel, Barkley, Nassib all going in the first.

People bag on Newton because he didn't have a great year last year .... but he completed 57% of his passes for 19 TD and 12 INT. He averaged almost 8 yards/pass. He also ran for 700+ yards and 8 TD.

He didn't have the year he had as a rookie, but he still had a damn good season. His QB rating actually went up from his rookie year. (for whatever that says)

I like Newton but he is what he is. He has a big arm with great mobility, limited accuracy and not very bright. I think Chud got the most out of him, I mean the guy throws more dirt balls than anyone in the league besides Colt lol

I agree Mourg that this QB-class is over-hated, but still a developmental class. I also agree that the value to pick a QB thus comes in the 3rd to 5th range. The best fits are Bray and Glennon (I assume EJ Manuel is long gone by then), but L.Jones can play in Norv's scheme too. The most stupid thing to do would be to buy high on Geno, hopefully it won't be us

for the 1st round.. IF the Browns do decide to get a QB in the first round.. in my mind its Geno Smith or die. Anyone else would be a waste.

I'd rather have a guy like Tyler Bray in the 4th (if he's there) to bring on board than draft Manuel.

There is no scenario in this draft that I would want us to pick a QB in the 1st round - We do not have an established Franchise QB but that doesn't mean we do not have a prospective Franchise QB. We do not have URGENT NEED. There really is no QB in this draft that would step up n provide a better chance to win then what we got. In lieu of that - 3rd round or later could be where the strength of this QB class is.

I'm hoping a Wilson, Glennon or Nassib will be there. All will depend how far the top 3 drop. Geno, Barckley n Manuel. But if we amass all those 2nd round picks by dropping back. I still do not want a QB investment in the first round.

JMHO

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There is no scenario in this draft that I would want us to pick a QB in the 1st round - We do not have an established Franchise QB but that doesn't mean we do not have a prospective Franchise QB. We do not have URGENT NEED. There really is no QB in this draft that would step up n provide a better chance to win then what we got. In lieu of that - 3rd round or later could be where the strength of this QB class is.

I'm hoping a Wilson, Glennon or Nassib will be there. All will depend how far the top 3 drop. Geno, Barckley n Manuel. But if we amass all those 2nd round picks by dropping back. I still do not want a QB investment in the first round.

JMHO

Agreed 100%, but I'll expand your first sentence to say that there is no scenario in this Draft that I would want us to pick a QB, at all.
We have a prospective franchise QB and a solid backup..... sign an UDFA and be done with it.

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sign an UDFA and be done with it.

Lalich! Lalich!! Lalich!!!

The 2013 NFL Draft is only 6 days away. I have put together a prediction as to what I think the Cleveland front office might do to strengthen this team. I beleive a lot of these picks and actions are a real possibility for our Browns in this draft. Hope it's a good read for you.

2013 NFL CLEVELAND BROWNS DRAFT PREDICTION:

#6 Browns trade down with Miami:
To move up from No. 12 to 6, the Dolphins need to surrender 400 points on the trade-value chart, which is Pick No. 50. Miami owns the 54th-overall selection, so that should definitely be enough. The Dolphins actually possess two second-rounders, so giving up one of them to get a highly athletic left tackle is well worth the price. If they have the ability to make a move like this, they absolutely have to do it and Cleveland appears to be a willing partner.

12. Cleveland Browns: Xavier Rhodes, CB, Florida State
The Browns may want to add a pass-rusher, and there will be plenty available at this juncture. However, Xavier Rhodes will almost definitely be on the board at No. 12 and it makes all the sense in the world to slide down six spots, fill a CB need at this point and to get back into the 2nd round. This move is a no brainer for a Cleveland team with 18 wins in 4 years and lots of holes to fill.

TRADE
Tampa Bay needs a DT at this point with the #13 pick and a CB too. The Bucs will trade for DT Ruben from Cleveland and give up their 2nd round pick #43. The Bucs then draft Desmond Trufant, CB, Washington and fill both needs in the 1st round with one being an experienced NFL DT in Ruben.

2nd Round
#43 from Tampa Bay trade:
Kevin Minter, ILB, LSU
The Browns catch a falling prospect here. Kevin Minter is projected to go at the end of the first round, so he's a steal at this juncture.

#54 from Miami trade:
Damontre Moore, DE/OLB, Texas A&M
The Browns have this pick from the trade in Round 1.
Michael Lombardi loves having tons of pass-rushers, so he could be looking for one early in the 2013 NFL Draft. With Ruben gone and the middle still solid, the Browns go after that pass rusher they need with this pick. These moves could keep Sheard at DE where he truely belongs.

ROUND 3
#68 Mike Glennon, QB, N.C. State
Michael Lombardi signed Jason Campbell to compete with Brandon Weeden for the starting job, but neither quarterback is a long-term solution. The Browns will probably draft a signal-caller in Rounds 3 or 4.
Mike Glennon has been linked to the Cardinals so the Browns pull a fast one taking Glennon a pick earlier. It could be smoke, but Glennon is a perfect fit for Turner's vertical offense.

ROUND 4
#104 Tony Jefferson, S, Oklahoma
The Browns need someone to play opposite Ward. Here's another great need pick for the Browns as they continue to fill holes for Horton's new defense.

ROUND 5
#139 Kenny Stills, WR, Oklahoma
The Browns get a late round steal here and fill a need as well with Stills. Josh Gordon improved as the 2012 season went along, but the Browns need another receiver to go along with the inconsistent Greg Little and injury recovering FA Nelson.

#164 Brian Winters, G, Kent State
The Browns address another need and get a versitle player here in Winters. Winters is a tough finisher at left tackle, garnering plenty of recognition as a long time starter. He possesses the athleticism to be a late second to early third day pick and a solid NFL starter at guard or tackle in a zone-blocking system.

ROUND 6
#175 Nick Kasa, TE, Colorado
The Browns signed Kellen Davis and Gary Barnidge, but that won't prevent them from drafting a tight end in the middle to late rounds.

ROUND 7
Best players available

I've watched a fair amount of EJ, he always looked like the kind of kid that should be great... he just never was. Very inconsistent, poor decisions, questionable accuracy.. As they say around the NFL, he's one of those guys that looks great getting off the bus and working out in shorts, he just doesn't seem to have what it takes on the field for me to consider as a first round pick...

Honest to God, I don't understand why people want the team to trade Rubin.

He has consistently been our best DL, and the best player on what might be our strongest unit, Why would we dump him, and weaken our DL? He's not old. He's not in decline. He has shown that he can be a strong player in the 3-4.

I just simply do not get it.

I agree why trade Rubin when we have already managed to recoup our second round pick trading down with Miami( hypothetical). We would be trading a player we know is good for one that has a chance of being a bust. I wouldn't mind Rhodes and Moore. Don't really want Glennon. If Weeden ain't the guy I say we roll with what we have until next draft. I wouldn't mind if we spend a late round ( 5-7) pick on a QB.

I like EJ Manuel a lot but not with the Browns 1st round pick. I think Manuel will go in the 1st round so no hope of getting him. My hope is the Browns get a chance to draft Dion Jordan who I think might be the best player in the draft. I think it would be a mistake to draft Milliner. There are plenty of CBs that can be found in later rounds.

Watching ESPN 32 earlier and Polian former Colts GM said he had Landry Jones as his #1 QB with Barkley as his #2 and I forgot who he said for #3.

I have to admit, even though I like the upside of Manuel more, if the owner comes in and says draft me a QB in the first, I probably go Landry Jones. I am not convinced any QB should go in the first but I love the arm and the accuracy of Jones. I dont love the brain farts from Jones.

Manuel I think you take if you are prepared to teach him how to be an NFL Quarterback for a few years.

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Honest to God, I don't understand why people want the team to trade Rubin. He has consistently been our best DL, and the best player on what might be our strongest unit, Why would we dump him, and weaken our DL? He's not old. He's not in decline. He has shown that he can be a strong player in the 3-4.

I just simply do not get it.

Well, he's getting close to 30 so you know banner

Honest question...What has Landry Jones accomplished that EJ Manuel hasn't? Honestly, when I hear someone say a player at the same position "needs more work" over another player I get interested in the analysis. Especially since EJ Manuel is rated higher than Landry Jones by every expert other than Bill Polian.

There's a few reasons why the Browns should trade Rubin. Now you do not have to agree but try to keep an open mind just for a minute.

1. Ruben is scheduled to be paid 6.2 million in 2013 and 6.9 million in 2014. That is a heck of a lot a money to pay for a rotational player.
2. As far as pure position players go, the Browns only have 2 true DE's on the roster (Sheard 6'3" 254 and Adams 6'5" 255) and they are thinking of moving Sheard out of position (OLB). That leaves the Browns with Rubin 6'2" 330, Bryant 6"6" 300, Winn 6'4" 294, Hughes 6'3" 309, Sanford 6'2" 280, Taylor 6'3" 355, and Kitchen 6'1" 344 all 6 of which are DT's to fill the 3 positions along the line. That will mean at least 2 of them will be playing out of position. For a team that had next to no pass rush in the last 4 years combined with only 18 wins, why would you want to go into the season with no true DE's hoping they can make the conversion?
3. Not to mention the fact that the DE's in the 3/4 are critical in forcing the pass rush but must be nimble enough to drop into coverage if both OLB's rush - who the heck out of these guys do you believe can cover anybody - Rubin? not in this lifetime. Or do the Browns just skip that part of the 3/4 defense because they don't have the players?
4. Finally, when a team has only won 18 games in 4 years (with the players mentioned) I don't believe you go into the season with a minimum of 3 players (in this case Rubin, Sheard, and Winn) playing positions they have never played in the NFL. The Browns were ranked 23rd in total defense in 2012. The Browns have never finished a season since returning to the league in 1999 higher than 20th against the run. Knowing this, why the heck would the Browns even consider going into the season with at least 3 players playing out of position in what can only be considered an experiment.

18 wins in 4 years, never better than 20th against the run, and the 23rd ranked defense and the Browns are going to try players in different unknown positions? Could be why the Browns are the 3rd losingest team in the last 10 years - this is not a time to experiment. Build a winner, not a patched together team just so you can take the field.

Rubin at this stage gives the Browns the most value in a trade. He can most likely get the Browns back into the second round where they can actually draft a true position player and save 6 plus million. Can it work for the Browns playing these guys out of position - MAYBE. However, it's a huge risk for a team that has been as poor as the Browns have been over the last 10 years (3rd losingest team) and has a much greater chance of backfiring than being successful. I don't believe that a team that has only won 18 games in 4 years is in a position to take that risk.

I guess this could be just another "hard learned lesson" for the Browns if they stay this course. Of course, as fans, we should be used to this type of management by now and the ultimate 4-5 win season. Same moves just a different management cast with probably the same results. Time will tell!

On the EJ Manuel question - when are the Browns and their fans going to understand that until they complete the rebuild proiject and get players playing positions where they produce - no QB is going to be successful in Cleveland.

It's time to quit talking about a QB and start fixing the other parts of this team that need fixed. Truefully, the Browns offense still needs a true #1 WR - like it or not. The Browns are still suspect at G and it needs to be addressed. QB might or might not be a question but until the rest of the team gets fixed how do we really know?

A good offense will help a defense. A good defense will really help an offense. The 23rd ranked defense and never higher than 20th against the run since 1999 does not help an offense. The Browns need to fix the defense to help the offense. BAL and PIT are contenders every year because their defenses are top notch and help the offenses be successful. The Browns 23rd ranked defense is not helping make our offense successful.

Before the Browns talk QB again, how about trying something successful like the winning teams in our division have proved works - finish building the defense - get some offensive weapons - then look for that franchise QB who at least has a chance of being successful.

Wow, what a novel idea.

You did see the purple font right?

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That is a heck of a lot a money to pay for a rotational player.

Aren't most big men on the D line rotational to some extent?

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18 wins in 4 years, never better than 20th against the run, and the 23rd ranked defense and the Browns are going to try players in different unknown positions?

Are you putting those records on Rubin? Do you think they are his fault?

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Rubin at this stage gives the Browns the most value in a trade. He can most likely get the Browns back into the second round where they can actually draft a true position player and save 6 plus million

Saving 6 mil is fine, but do you really want to trade a proven player for an "I hope this guy can do the job" kinda player?

I don't want to trade Rube. However, I'll completely understand if they do and get an early 2nd Rd pick.

If they do trade him, it will be because he doesn't project to the DE position AND he makes too much money if that's the case.

I think he will do well at DE.

If we trade down, it is to draft Manuel...that's my prediction

I posted an article the other day that said that Rubin is down to 305 to play DE. He should be even quicker than he has been.

In his last season in the 3-4, Rubin had 83 tackles. (with 2 sacks) That is a staggering total for a DL, especially a NT.

Then he switched to DT, and had 83 tackles and 5 sacks.

Last year he had some lingering injuries, and recorded only 44 tackles and 2 sacks in 13 games. Oh, he did force 3 fumbles though.

Regardless, look at a team like the Steelers. It took 2 of their DL combined to account for 83 tackles.

On the Ravens, Ngata had 51 tackles and 5 sacks last year as a 3-4 DE. I see no reason not to expect at least those tackles numbers from Rubin, and we might even see that number of sacks given out of him.

Rubin is probably my favorite player on this team. He is a guy who came in without fanfare, and made himself into a player. He was a 6th round pick in a draft that went from downright awful to decent just because he was a part of it. (other players that year ... Bell, Rucker, Hubbard, and Hall) He has shown that he can play in any defense, and play well. He has done well under more sedate defensive coordinators like Jauron, and "wild man" types like Ryan. He is a football player, through and through.

That's what we need.

1. Ruben is scheduled to be paid 6.2 million in 2013 and 6.9 million in 2014. That is a heck of a lot a money to pay for a rotational player.

If a DT is getting more than 65% of the snaps, there is a serious lack of depth or that DT is in great condition. Rubin I believe plays around 70% well until last year when he was injured.

2. As far as pure position players go, the Browns only have 2 true DE's on the roster (Sheard 6'3" 254 and Adams 6'5" 255) and they are thinking of moving Sheard out of position (OLB). That leaves the Browns with Rubin 6'2" 330, Bryant 6"6" 300, Winn 6'4" 294, Hughes 6'3" 309, Sanford 6'2" 280, Taylor 6'3" 355, and Kitchen 6'1" 344 all 6 of which are DT's to fill the 3 positions along the line. That will mean at least 2 of them will be playing out of position. For a team that had next to no pass rush in the last 4 years combined with only 18 wins, why would you want to go into the season with no true DE's hoping they can make the conversion?

Most 3-4 DE's are converted 4-3 DTs

3. Not to mention the fact that the DE's in the 3/4 are critical in forcing the pass rush but must be nimble enough to drop into coverage if both OLB's rush - who the heck out of these guys do you believe can cover anybody - Rubin? not in this lifetime. Or do the Browns just skip that part of the 3/4 defense because they don't have the players?

Yea I see 3-4 DE's sprinting back into coverage all the time well at least once ever couple of games or atleast a couple times a year anyway.

4. Finally, when a team has only won 18 games in 4 years (with the players mentioned) I don't believe you go into the season with a minimum of 3 players (in this case Rubin, Sheard, and Winn) playing positions they have never played in the NFL. The Browns were ranked 23rd in total defense in 2012. The Browns have never finished a season since returning to the league in 1999 higher than 20th against the run. Knowing this, why the heck would the Browns even consider going into the season with at least 3 players playing out of position in what can only be considered an experiment.

Winn is one of those rare hybrid college DE's that could slide inside which makes him perfect for 3-4 DE. Rubin can play either nose or DE, he was pretty good at DE when Rogers was healthy. Sheard is the only guy that is really changing position.

Anyway, I would not be surprised at all if we trade Rubin but I will be upset about it as he sets the standard on that line and has everyone hustling on every play. It is contagious and it starts with him.

Good points Mourgrym agree with most n I don't understand all the talk about trading Rubin...6 mil is not that much for a Good Starting DLman.

Also noted was Rubin being 330...he now is 305 n should be quicker. Excellent against the run n can rush the pass as he was not know as a pass rusher but has surprised us with some impressive sacks. Note most Passing downs he has not been in.

Just cause he is playing a position not played before...why assume he will Struggle when he has not struggled as of yet. Attack D is not that hard to transition to...it is not a discipline read n react - it is point the player at a specific GAP n saying...SICK EM!!!

Not that simple but I can guarantee you a lot more simple than the 3-4 D we were in w/Rac n then Mangini...Simpler than the Jauron 4-3 DT. Now at 305 I'm curious on his quickness as long as the 25 lbs lost was all FAT! His motor has been amazing...he also has been such a good LEADER to other young DTs. I don't know why we would get rid of him...6mil is not that much. He could be AWESOME.

Winn actually did not fit as a DT in our 4-3. He was about as perfect a 3-4 DE as there can be. We got Rubin, Bryant n Winn...we actually need one more to step up for the Roster n Rotation or in the draft for depth.

New D...for EVERYONE on our ROSTER except for Groves!

Got to go n get ready for Church...hey we need all the help we can get

From the beginning of this draft process the guy that I liked in the quarterback class was Tyler Wilson.

Leadership and toughness go along way in the NFL. Wilson has those characteristics in spades. He also possess and quick live arm.

Here is an article by this guy who sees Wilson in the same light as I do:

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000...-in-qb-rankings

Dream draft for me is Dion Jordan at six or trade down. Then get Tyler Wilson in the third.

Doubt that will happen. The Browns do not seem to have Wilson on their radar.

EJ Manuel get good vibe after his visit with the Browns:

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ss...t_river_default

"CLEVELAND, Ohio -- While watching film of EJ Manuel during a private workout Saturday at Florida State, Browns coach Rob Chudzinski turned to Manuel and said, "Man, that reminds me of somebody I used to coach."

That somebody was Panthers quarterback Cam Newton, whom Chudzinski coached as a rookie in 2011 and again in 2012. But Manuel, one of the players the Browns are considering with their No. 6 pick, didn't have to ask Chudzinski who he was talking about.

"He already brought up Cam when I was up in Cleveland on Monday," Manuel, a dual-threat quarterback who went 25-6 at Florida State, told The Plain Dealer after the workout. "I think coach Chudzinski sees a lot of Cam Newton in me, so that's kind of in my favor as far as being a guy that's very similar to Cam's playing style."

Manuel, who's been projected to go anywhere from the top five in the draft to the second or third round, has also taken some of the same pre-draft beating that his good friend Newton -- the No. 1 overall pick in 2011 -- endured.

"They said Cam was a third-round pick and he went first overall," said Manuel. "I'm sure a lot of people doubted him just like they're still doubting me. Coach Chudzinski did a great job with Cam and you saw how well he transitioned to the pros. He was Rookie of the Year and a Pro Bowler. If I get drafted by Cleveland, I know coach Chudzinski and (offensive coordinator) Norv Turner would do a great job of getting me ready to play."

Manuel, who threw 41 TDs against only 18 interceptions in his two seasons as the fulltime starter, got a great vibe from the Browns after they worked him out Saturday and hosted him for a pre-draft visit on Monday. In addition to Chudzinski and Turner, Turner's son Scott, the Browns receivers coach, also attended Saturday's workout Saturday.

"There's no telling what these teams are really thinking, but I think it's good that Cleveland wanted to come work me out five days before the draft," said Manuel. "I left Cleveland on Monday and they were here on Saturday. The turnaround was quick, and when they left today, I felt like I made a good impression."

Manuel has also received a good look from other teams picking high, including the Jaguars at No. 2, the Eagles at No. 4, the Bills at No. 8 and the Jets at No. 9. Eagles coach Chip Kelly, who figures to run a read-option, recruited Manuel for Oregon and worked him out privately last month.

"Those are most of the teams that have worked me out and brought their head coaches, GMs, quarterback coaches, the whole crew," said Manuel. "After the way some of these workouts have gone, I think I'll go fairly high. I don't know about the top 10, but I expect to go in the first round. Some of the teams might consider me (a top five pick). We'll have to see how it all plays out."

In addition to the Newton comparisons from Chudzinski, Manuel got some great feedback from Turner, who will double as the quarterbacks coach.

"He had a lot of good things to say about my game and what I can do moving forward," said Manuel. "They know I can throw the football, but they wanted to see how I'd react to coach Turner's coaching, my footwork, how the ball comes out of my hand, everything."

When Manuel left Cleveland on Monday, the coaches packed him up with a little offensive homework for the weekend.

"I had to write a few things down for them and I think they wanted to see if I put in the time to study it and I did well," he said. "I wasn't perfect, but they also wanted to see how you react when you're wrong -- if you figure it out and correct yourself."

During his pre-draft visit, Manuel ran into quarterback Brandon Weeden, whom he first met at an Elite 11 quarterback camp in California two years ago.

"I'm good friends with Brandon," Manuel said. "The possibility of the Browns drafting me didn't really come up. If I happen to get drafted by the Browns, I'll obviously want to compete and he knows that. But it was moreso just saying hello and letting him know it was good to see him."

Manuel, who feels he's the top quarterback in the draft, anticipates starting somewhere in 2013.

"Any opportunity I go into, I think I'll have an opportunity to start," he said. "If a team drafts you early, they expect you to come in and battle at that position, so I think I'd do really well moving into the Browns organization. At the same time I think I could still learn from Brandon and Jason (Campbell)."

Despite the comparisons to Newton, Manuel (6-4, 237) patterns his game after Pittsburgh's Ben Roethlisberger, which should please Browns fans.

"I know I'm very similar to Cam in size, and speed and things like that, but I usually watch film on Big Ben," he said. "I'm a big, strong, durable quarterback. That's what I love about Big Ben. He doesn't run to run. He runs to try to get open to throw the ball. A lot of people may say I'm a runner, but anytime I'm scrambling around, I'm looking for a receiver and trying to get the ball into their hands."

NFL Network's Mike Mayock has been so impressed with Manuel that he could see him going No. 4 to the Eagles.

"(Manuel is) as raw as can be," Mayock said on a conference call this week. "He has a big arm and he's very athletic. That's why I moved him up to my second quarterback. Because his upside is better than all the other quarterbacks in the draft, except for Geno."

He added: "I think Chudzinski and Chip (Kelly) very much have their eyes open as to quarterbacks who can throw the ball, because that's critical. But also who can hurt you in the run game?"

ESPN's Jon Gruden said this week: "I like EJ a lot because I think you can call just about any scheme you want to call. He's a presence inside the 10-yard line much like Cam Newton in Carolina is. I've seen him run various option plays and we know that's certainly a major point of emphasis in the NFL right now. . . . I think he has a tremendous skill set that allows him to do a lot of different things. If you're with a creative offensive coach, look out. He could be a good player."

Manuel stressed that there's at least one comparison with Newton that's dead on.

"Cam wanted to be great," he said. "And I want to be great too. I don't want to just get into the NFL. I want to make a career out of it and make an impact in the league."

Has Chudzinski found his next Cam?"

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There is no scenario in this draft that I would want us to pick a QB in the 1st round - We do not have an established Franchise QB but that doesn't mean we do not have a prospective Franchise QB. We do not have URGENT NEED. There really is no QB in this draft that would step up n provide a better chance to win then what we got. In lieu of that - 3rd round or later could be where the strength of this QB class is.

I'm hoping a Wilson, Glennon or Nassib will be there. All will depend how far the top 3 drop. Geno, Barckley n Manuel. But if we amass all those 2nd round picks by dropping back. I still do not want a QB investment in the first round.

JMHO

I'm going to disagree with you on this one Tab. Ironically I use to think QB was less a piece until you convinced me otherwise a few years ago! I don't think Weeden is the answer. If my assumption is correct, Browns draft either Smith or Manuel at #6.

Biggest indicator is Browns aggressively conducting visits and/or workouts with the following: Matt Scott; Geno Smith; EJ Manuel; Ryan Nassib; Matt Barkley. Lombardi said in his presser they are simply doing their do-diligence on every position. Really? How many running backs have they worked out? 1-Jamaine Cooke Youngstown St. How many TE's? 3-Gavin Escobar San Diego St.; Travis Kelce Cincinnati; Cordale Scott Toledo. Lombardi put a bigger emphasis on QB then TE, which was stated a high priority by many.

My gut tells me Browns draft EJ Manuel if he still is on the board at #6. Realistically I think Geno Smith goes to Jacksonville and EJ Manuel goes to Philly. Teams needing a QB either have a veteran or got one. Browns brought Campbell to camp. Manuel has a lot of similarities as Phillip Rivers...shotgun thrower; arm strength ;tall; physical; leadership. I also think Lombardi's ego comes into factor stating Weeden wasn't good enough.

I read that article and really don't know what to make of it.

if you listen to folks on here, Manuel sucks. Some on here have likened him to another DA. Strong arm, bad accuracy etc etc.

He's supposed to have (according to his article) the same skills as Cam Newton. Makes you wonder how anyone can say bad things about him if that's even remotely accurate.

Sometimes I wonder what the odds are if I just stand up and say that everyone sucks.. I think I'll be right more times than I'm wrong.. LOL

What, 300 new player join the league every years. I'd have to think that most fail.. I'd have to be right more than I'm wrong.. hell of a strategy

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if you listen to folks on here, Manuel sucks. Some on here have likened him to another DA. Strong arm, bad accuracy etc etc.

Remember what everyone said about McNabb. If I recall, people said physically built, mediocre arm, and non-accurate. Strange Banner was in Philly drafting McNabb. Is Manuel similar to McNabb? One plus for Manuel he has a strong arm. I haven't done it. Has anyone looked at Florida State? Did Manuel make those receivers better than they were? Did Seminoles have a running game? How good was their OL?

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if you listen to folks on here, Manuel sucks. Some on here have likened him to another DA. Strong arm, bad accuracy etc etc.

Remember what everyone said about McNabb. If I recall, people said physically built, mediocre arm, and non-accurate. Strange Banner was in Philly drafting McNabb. Is Manuel similar to McNabb? One plus for Manuel he has a strong arm. I haven't done it. Has anyone looked at Florida State? Did Manuel make those receivers better than they were? Did Seminoles have a running game? How good was their OL?

I really like Manuel, and if we acquire a #2 I would love to see us take him ... He could learn behind Weeden and be next in line ... JMHO

Yeah Wilson grew on me...I do like the throws of Glennon but the accuracy (footwork) of Wilson made me think he was a good prospect.

Pastor, I wish your scenario would work but EJ Manuel definitely will be selected within the top 20 players.

Wilson throws a lot of wobblers and in this division I want someone that can spin it into the wind. Everyone has their own favorites in this draft and it really is anyones guess. I like Jones, Manuel, Bray and I like Barkley just not for the Browns.

Reading this article, this thing that kept jumping into my head is "golly, we're showing a lot of interest right before the draft.... I wonder why, unless a team in the range we're wanting to trade down to might want him".

I'd say that you can look for us to trade down with the Eagles.

The most logical answer for us showing interest in a QB at this time is to make people ancy. More likely that they'd consider a trade up to take a QB ahead of us. Meaning someone we may covet falls(Milliner,Ansah??).

I'd gladly take him in the third. No sooner.

If we traded down in round 1, drafted in round 2, & then traded up into the 2nd & took him, I probably wouldn't care either...

If there is not a run on QBs - I think there might be an excellent value pick for QB at our 3rd round slot. Glennon, Nassib - look right now its the Bozo's n Talking Heads...Speculating with every team as they work out a QB...Buffalo works out Nassib n all of a sudden they are talking about the Bills taking Nassib at overall #8??? Really not for their 2nd round pick???

I mean QB position you never know. There could be a run where 3-5 are taken in the first round (hope we are not one of them) All depends on the Eagles if they take Geno or Manuel for that matter...if Chip wants one of them I'm sure they will go get em cause they are committing to that System! If so then you might see Buffalo n a couple of more taken in the first.

If not and they start to drop with none taken...the further they drop the more we are heading into teams with good records which usually means they got their Franchise QB...the run might be in the 2nd round.

Which if so a good prospect that would be considered a steal would be available in the 3rd round. Glennon sitting back perfecting his technique a couple of seasons. Wilson...someone mentioned fluttering the ball??? didn't see that would mean something if he has a Small Hand. Nassib? Bray? I think we are working out 5 or so QBs.

The only scenario I see us taking a QB in the First is if we dropped back not ONCE...but TWICE - maybe back to 12 n then back again to 49ers. This is a very weird draft is all I will say!

I'd love a LG n a TE for the O.
I'd love a Edge Rusher extraordinaire OLB, CB n FS for the D.

I think we WILL take a Developmental QB as for draft purposes we actually might get a Steal in the 3rd???

Who knows about this draft...Every pick in the Top 10 seem UP IN THE AIR...usually by now with obvious slotting we sort of know who is being taken TOP 5-7.

JMHO

I have the Chargers trading up into the end of the second for him in my mock.

We didn't work out Manuel to take him sixth overall. I feel he was being looked at in case of a trade down scenario. He is not a top 10 pick. Now somebody will prolly take him in the mid to late first but he is a 2nd round talent IMO.
More less jocking for draft positions is what I think we doing!

Teams are loading up. The new rookie salary structure combined with the success of the Julio Jones trade for the Falcons has teams at the back wanting to get that top 10 pick.

Every NFL draft instinct says we are trading back into the end of round 1 and I think it is going to be a trade with Chargers or Phins and then it will be followed with the Falcons or 49ers.

I have no problem with that philosophy especially in this draft. It is funny but at the end of the first, you could find your top rated QB, RB, TE, S, OG and possibly even your top rated Corner all still available.

say we trade down with Phins then 49ers. You can take your developmental QB and have him secured for 5 years at a super low cost. You can take a guard like Warford that Norv really likes and give Richardson a beast in the middle of that line. Hell, Moore, Werner, Collins, Carradine are some of your best pass rushers and we could see those guys at the end of the first.

Weird draft folks gonna be fun but would be more fun if I was in chat instead of at work Thursday and Friday nights.

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We didn't work out Manuel to take him sixth overall. I feel he was being looked at in case of a trade down scenario. He is not a top 10 pick. Now somebody will prolly take him in the mid to late first but he is a 2nd round talent IMO.
More less jocking for draft positions is what I think we doing!

I'm not so sure. Manuel, and many other QB's this draft, are not seen as starters right out the gate, but up until last season it was rare any QB started right away. It is even more rare a QB is successful his first season without heavy support. You also have to weigh investing in rookies make it easier to take a chance.

After Browns picked up Campbell. I thought it was an odd combination. When I read...

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"I think coach Chudzinski sees a lot of Cam in me, so that's kind of in my favor as far as being a guy that's very similar to Cam's playing style,” Manuel told the Cleveland Plain-Dealer. “Coach Chudzinski did a great job with Cam, and you saw how well he transitioned to the pros. He was Rookie of the Year and a Pro Bowl (quarterback).”

I started thinking Campbell makes a lot more sense. Only other team I see where Manuel fits is Philly. If Eagles do pass, I see Browns making a trade down 5 or 6 spots. It will depend on how soon Geno Smith is taken. It would not surprise me one bit Browns make a trade even with Milliner available at #6.

If Browns do take Manuel, I believe Lombardi tries to trade Weeden for a second or third round pick. Everyone keeps saying value is in the second and third rounds. Browns FO did a lot a homework on QB's. Lombardi said he was doing his do-diligence. Funny he didn't make the same commitment toward RB's and very little on TE's.

One last thing leads me to believe Browns may take Manuel. They looked only at Milliner and not Xavier Rhodes or D.J. Hayden. They primarily looked at DB's projected to go in the second and third round. If the don't get Manuel, I predict they draft a OLB.

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On the EJ Manuel question - when are the Browns and their fans going to understand that until they complete the rebuild proiject and get players playing positions where they produce - no QB is going to be successful in Cleveland.

It's time to quit talking about a QB and start fixing the other parts of this team that need fixed. Truefully, the Browns offense still needs a true #1 WR - like it or not. The Browns are still suspect at G and it needs to be addressed. QB might or might not be a question but until the rest of the team gets fixed how do we really know?

Right, because the Colts had pro-bowlers at every other position when Peyton started and the Patriots were a juggernaut when Brady took over and the Steelers were 2 deep at every position when Big Ben came in, and the Redskins before RGIII, etc, etc...... Bullcrap. People need to stop confusing the fact that we keep drafting the WRONG quarterback with the fact that we aren't ready for a quarterback.

The Colts didn't go from 10-6 to 2-14 and back to 11-5 because the other 10 players on the offense suddenly got horrible for a season.. they did it because the other players were pretty good and the QB went from great to horrible and back to pretty darn good. The Browns are young but fairly talented, a good QB would make a world of difference with the talent we have right now... maybe it's Weeden, maybe it's not.. but stop complaining that our WRs aren't great and we are a little thin at OG...

Simple fact is that Marvin Harrison had not had a 900 yard receiving season before Manning got there, Marshall Faulk was ok but nothing special, Ken Dilger was their TE, Sean Dawkins was their other WR.... they had zero pro-bowl players on the offense... in comes Manning and all of the sudden Harrison is a star, Faulk is a star, everybody on the offense is a star.. why is that? It ain't because everybody else suddenly got great, it's because the QB helped make them great. We have plenty of young offensive talent that to this point is largely unrealized, waiting for high level play from the QB and a competent coaching staff...

I don't want a QB this year for two reasons.. 1 is I'd like to give Weeden another year and 2 is because I don't see any that I like in the draft... pretty simple.. the fact that our OGs aren't great plays no part in it.

Weeden wasn't Luck or Griffin, but how many QBs stack up against those two guys, Cam, but in last ten years, who else.....NO ONE, so Weeden wasn't too bad and Shurms O didn't fit Weeden......having written that.....we are into another regime and they can do what they want.....Manuel ain't polished, but he comes from great program and he's a stud......I wouldn't mind having him on the roster at all......especially if the coach and front office want him......Go Browns!!!!

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Right, because the Colts had pro-bowlers at every other position when Peyton started and the Patriots were a juggernaut when Brady took over and the Steelers were 2 deep at every position when Big Ben came in, and the Redskins before RGIII, etc, etc...... Bullcrap. People need to stop confusing the fact that we keep drafting the WRONG quarterback with the fact that we aren't ready for a quarterback.

The Colts didn't go from 10-6 to 2-14 and back to 11-5 because the other 10 players on the offense suddenly got horrible for a season.. they did it because the other players were pretty good and the QB went from great to horrible and back to pretty darn good. The Browns are young but fairly talented, a good QB would make a world of difference with the talent we have right now... maybe it's Weeden, maybe it's not.. but stop complaining that our WRs aren't great and we are a little thin at OG...

Simple fact is that Marvin Harrison had not had a 900 yard receiving season before Manning got there, Marshall Faulk was ok but nothing special, Ken Dilger was their TE, Sean Dawkins was their other WR.... they had zero pro-bowl players on the offense... in comes Manning and all of the sudden Harrison is a star, Faulk is a star, everybody on the offense is a star.. why is that? It ain't because everybody else suddenly got great, it's because the QB helped make them great. We have plenty of young offensive talent that to this point is largely unrealized, waiting for high level play from the QB and a competent coaching staff...

I don't want a QB this year for two reasons.. 1 is I'd like to give Weeden another year and 2 is because I don't see any that I like in the draft... pretty simple.. the fact that our OGs aren't great plays no part in it.

Attention: Intelligent Thinking Right Here!!!

This same discussion went on relentlessly on the other board. People fail to understand only two HOF receivers ever made a terrible QB great and those two were Stallworth and Swan. Funny it took two HOF receivers to make Bradshaw look good. I sure hope Bradshaw is forking out serious coin to those two guys. Oh by the way, you throw in a HOF offensive line, running back, and third best defense ever. I still question the validity of HOF inductees.

One other team you forgot to mention...Cardinals. How much did Fitzgerald help that gang of num nut QB's. Amazing how well Fitzgerald performed working with Kurt Warner.

Ooopss...agree with everything but that last paragraph. Weeden? I'm not so sure.

Mr Kelso, If E.J. Manuel is going to be their franchise quarterback then they better not trade back and risk some other team selecting him. Hope that he is there at 6, take him 6th overall and wait until late in the 2nd day for that next pick to come up.

Wow! That would be tough medicine to take, the majority here would be up in arms with hate, but if EJ Manuel is that good and he ends up being all that.

Well then sometimes you just have to take the medicine and live with it.

Well I have heard Lombardi say many times, "The worst mistake a new head coach can make is not drafting a new quarterback". Now you can't just draft a new QB to draft a new QB. That is why we have Ponder, Locker, Gabbert, Cam all drafted in the top 15. Cam worked out only because Chud redesigned his offense to fit him.

Anyway none of those guys should have gone in the first as all were developmental QBs. This class imho is better than that class and none should be drafted in the first. That however is probably one of the reasons why we are working so hard to trade down and get that 2nd rounder.

Fortunately there are now a few teams working to get up

So we will see how it goes.

This draft may get pretty exciting this year. Teams up top want to move down while teams in the middle want to move up. Draft might get better then WS of poker!! If Lombardi does not go QB, he definitely shows he will use visits and workouts to bluff.

draft him at 6 then play him that way we get 1st overall next year.

I like him a lot as a 2/3 round pick. I think he needs at least a year on the bench, and another 1-2 years of growing pains before you could really judge him. He's a project, but not a huge project.

If we stay at 6, draft someone there, and don't pick again until the 3rd, do you really want to draft someone who shouldn't be on the field at all? That's assuming he's even there. I still think you can get contributors in that part of the draft, and sometimes even get lucky and get a good starter.

excellent thought but I am a firm believer when life deals you lemons you make lemonade.
2 If you feel he is the right guy then draft him and play him period dont hedge bets for every aaron rodger there is two matt ryans.

Well, Manuel is gone and it was a controversial pick - not surprising though. I think the lack of any other QB taken in the 1st round tells you that the majority of the teams in the NFL have determined this QB class is weak - Buffalo making a huge reach (much like Cleveland normally does) is going to come back and bite them.

The Browns missed on trading back or maybe actually got the guy the always wanted. I have been posting that the Browns were hurting for certain at DE. It would appear that Horton and the crew believed so too. So the Browns drafted Mingo to fill that void. This brings me back to what I've been saying all along, the Browns have too many interior lineman and most are questionable as to being able to convert to DE or in Sheard's case OLB.

This is the perfect setup for the Browns to make the move and trade Rubin now to get back into the 2nd round. Rubin is the only player of the DL front that can get the Browns back into the 2nd round. Let's not kid ourselves, CB is a huge need on this team and I don't believe the Browns will want to wait until the 3rd round to get a shot at a CB. With 2 safetys and 4 CB's already off the board in the first 32 picks, it would appear that getting back into the 2nd round for a CB would become critical at this stage.

The top 4 CB's left on the board are:
Taylor, Boise St
Banks, Miss St
Alford, SE LA
McFadden, San Diego St

There's a huge drop off after that so if the Browns are looking at CB then they need to make some kind of move to get back into the 2nd round and I think it will take trading Rubin to do that.

I think we also have to keep in mnd that if the rumors are true about us potentially going after Miami WR Bess then it will cost us a late round pick. Though not popular at all, I think the Browns have to pull the trigger of trading Rubin to get back into the 2nd round to get a much needed CB. The positives are the Browns can unload a 6 plus million dollar contract and address a serious need at CB. The negatives are the Browns lose a great DT. However, Winn, Hughes, and Taylor have been great finds and Rubin will not be missed as much as people might think. Not getting a CB to play opposite Hayden will be a huge void in the defense. Sometimes you have to make tough decisions - question is will the Browns pull the trigger or will they take a chance on being continually burned in the passing game much like they were in 2012?

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The Browns missed on trading back or maybe actually got the guy the always wanted. I have been posting that the Browns were hurting for certain at DE. It would appear that Horton and the crew believed so too. So the Browns drafted Mingo to fill that void. This brings me back to what I've been saying all along, the Browns have too many interior lineman and most are questionable as to being able to convert to DE or in Sheard's case OLB.

This is the perfect setup for the Browns to make the move and trade Rubin now to get back into the 2nd round. Rubin is the only player of the DL front that can get the Browns back into the 2nd round. Let's not kid ourselves, CB is a huge need on this team and I don't believe the Browns will want to wait until the 3rd round to get a shot at a CB. With 2 safetys and 4 CB's already off the board in the first 32 picks, it would appear that getting back into the 2nd round for a CB would become critical at this stage.

If anyone gets traded, I'd imagine it would be Sheard. You say that the Browns have too many interior linemen and most are questionable if they can convert.

Then, the one guy we're sure can convert is the one you want to trade? That just makes no sense to me.

If I'm trading a guy, I'm trading the one that we aren't sure about. Reuben has played a bunch of different defenses and played pretty well in all of them.

But if we trade Sheard I hope it's for a high (close to now) 2nd round pick. He's a young starting 4-3 DE. And even at that, I'm not sure if that's what we want to do. I kinda want to see if Sheard can make the switch, he's a good football player: he might just be able to do it