Draft Day Scenario - DawgTalkers.net

Well, I don't believe that Ansah has character issues, I thought that I made my comparison clear, but maybe not. I just see him as an "OK" player, who will never be worth the investment made in him.

I prefer, at this point, to trade down, if we can find a trade partner.

Mingo, Star, Rhodes, Hayden??? n Warmack.

Only saying Hayden cause of Mayock putting him high up...He knows DB he also is getting some feedback from NFL active friends??? Trufant???

Ytown...why hate on a guy...just pimp your own. Quite frankly what you fear is an awesome defensive player. One question cause you insult my HOPE PICK for us

Pray tell...just what do Ansah has in common w/Warren. POT? Laziness? Motor? Intelligence? Come on man...throwing a name out there and hoping it sticks??? pfft

We got a shot hopefully of a 8-10 year Dominating OLB for our new D...one who can be versatile in any Multiple front situation the DC is looking to utilize. One who is Good against the run naturally. One who is learning n picking up things at an alarming rate.

Gee he reminds me so much of Warren too

Come on Man. lol

...who do you like so I can HOPE HE's GONE...lol

I don't take it personal...I just don't get the fear. I understand the lack of playing time, etc. But he seems to get better with the more advanced competition not worse. He could at worst become AVERAGE...but the upside is one of the most DOMINANT Edge guy to come around in AGES!!! Yep - I hope he gone too

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Quite frankly what you fear is an awesome defensive player.

If we wind up drafting him, then I will be praying that I'm wrong.

I'd rather be wrong and have a great player, then to be right and have a so-so player. (or worse)

What I fear is drafting an awesome athlete who doesn't know how to play football and doesn't have the right skillset to play 3-4 OLB.

I think birthday congratulations might be in order. If so, Happy Birthday! Also, thanks for letting me agreeably disagree with you.

Thank you.

As to the other matter, this place would be pretty boring if everyone agreed with everyone else 100% of the time. Just because we agree to disagree doesn't mean that we have to be disagreeable.

jc

If millner is gone AND we cant trade down then I want hyaden. We NEED our #2 CB baddly.

I wont be disappointed if we end up taking Ansah or wormack though. Myabe even take Elam or reid at FS which would fill a huge hole. I think Elam is going to be a probowler on the defense we will be running. I can just see Horten licking his chops to draft him. If we gained a second round pick Elam is my number one choice.

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I don't take it personal...I just don't get the fear. I understand the lack of playing time, etc. But he seems to get better with the more advanced competition not worse. He could at worst become AVERAGE...but the upside is one of the most DOMINANT Edge guy to come around in AGES!!!

Boy I hope you're right Eo. But as much as you like this guy you have to think that this is the epidemy of BOOM/BUST.

And THAT scares me to at 6.

I just don't want to see a scenario where we are sitting at 6 and all of Jordan/Anzah and Milliner are gone. That would suck in the worst way. What do we do? Reach for Rhodes cause of need? Warmack at 6 is also a major reach. Eifert at 6? NO WAY.

This scenario would play heavily in us leaning toward BPA and that guy is FLOYD for this DL.

Everyone is slobbering over Milliner. Newsflash folks. Milliner is NOT a Top 5 talent. Personally I don't think he's anywhere near the talent of previous Top 5 CB's. Hell, Champ Bailey went 7. There's just very few Corner's that go that high.

And then there's Jordan. PURE OLB in a 3-4. OLB's just don't go that high either. And one could argue Anzah being a 3-4 OLB also. Though he could easily be a DE in any 4-3. Unless Philly takes Jordan with ties to Kelly, I can easily see him at 6 for us along with Milliner.

Why? Because DT is also a rare breed and studs go Top 5 all the time. Therefore I would be shocked if Floyd/Lutolelei and Richardson or any combination of the 3 DON'T go Top 5.

Having one or two of the DT's and QB Smith going early will open this up for us.

Just busting your Chops Ytown...

Powder...just what are his skill sets? Considering you have classed him as a 3 point player only. When I don't think there is ONE GM/Personnel guy who has classified him as that. Oh maybe a Casserley who doesn't like him might.

Just know one thing on the skill sets. When the combine separated the DL who would go get worked in drills for LB...he was the first ("A"nsah) in all the drills. He picked the instructions up at the onset and showed no difficulties in transitioning his "SKILL SET" to OLB. I'm telling you all - This kid has improved at a rate NOBODY HAS EVER SEEN! Tape you saw of him in Nov. Tape you saw of him in Bowl games. Tape you saw of him at the Senior Bowl...just amazing growth. Combine his skill set kept on that growth. Really to evaluate him correctly is to work him out Privately now n talk to him about football. For some reason I think he KNOWS the game n is intelligent n a very very fast learner. What I do know is we worked him out. He is proving to be an amazing Football player - I have never NEVER seen a DE dominate the Senior Bowl the way he did. And that was going against some highly regarded OTs. The kid was making Tackles all the way to the other Side line for goodness Sake!

You all got to stop thinking Gholston or Chaun Thompson, Junkin - Not only is Ansah closing in on the Can't MISS Prospect but he is perfect for these New Hybrid/Fronts whatever you wish to call them as he is 270. He is a FREAK OF NATURE that can Dominate a game! DOMINATE! Time for us to start thinking GREAT TEAM

tired of safe...you want safe then pimp Warmack...he is the safest pick in this draft!

JMHO

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Powder...just what are his skill sets? Considering you have classed him as a 3 point player only. When I don't think there is ONE GM/Personnel guy who has classified him as that. Oh maybe a Casserley who doesn't like him might.

I see him as an OLB in a 3-4 just like everyone else does, but I prefer him as a 4-3 DE. I think that's where he can excel.

As for why I don't like him as much in a 3-4, he doesn't have that elite first step that all the best pass-rushing 3-4 OLBs in recent years have had. I think his ceiling in a 3-4 is a slightly better version of Tamba Hali, but he's still so far away from that level in terms of technique that he kinda scares me.

This is admittedly a superficial analysis. I haven't studied him much at all, but what little I've seen doesn't scream "superstar" in a 3-4 IMO.

Think you have to go with Sharrif Floyd if that's how it plays out.

Definitely not a spot of need, but he'd be another impact guy up front.

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Think you have to go with Sharrif Floyd if that's how it plays out.

Definitely not a spot of need, but he'd be another impact guy up front.

Then you will have Gerard Warren - FLORIDA DT EARLY PICK FAILURE ... JMHO

What about Tavon Austin at #6

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What about Tavon Austin at #6

He is good but if i am taking a skilled position I would take Tyler Eifert TE ND ... JMHO

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I pray that Ansah is gone when we pick.

I just look at him and see Gerard Warren .... a competent and capable NFL player, and a guy who could have a long career in the league ...... but a guy who will never be the difference maker he was drafted to be. He'll be a useful piece for a good team, but never a cornerstone. Top 10 players are supposed to be cornerstone types, that you build around ...... not guys who are limited, situational players. I just don't see special in Ansah.

Obviously, I will hope desperately that I am wrong if we wind up drafting him.

I don't want Ansah either. A major project and I am not sure the guy isn't older than Weeden.

To go with the thread, if if plays out as listed and we can't trade down. Warmack. Pretty simple IMO.

Cooper over Warmack.

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Then you will have Gerard Warren - FLORIDA DT EARLY PICK FAILURE ... JMHO

I don't put any stock in school affiliations and prior pick position. Sharrif is what he is. If he's another Gerard Warren based on talent or attitude? Than definitely avoid him at #6.

A couple of other guys I could see in this scenario... Eiffert or Warmack. And Memphis, you've concocted a worst-case-scenario here. Hope it doesn't happen!

I simply do not see the value in a Guard at 6. This team needs weapons and attackers, not interior linemen. (especially shorter interior linemen who lack any versatility at all) Guards are one position that can develop in the NFL. They can be built, rather than paying top dollar for them in the draft.

Teams, good teams, have Guards drafted in the 2nd, 3rd, 4th, or later rounds .... or who even went undrafted altogether. Good teams develop these players into starter quality players ... they generally don't invest 1st round picks in them.

If the Browns want to be an attack style team I see the targets at 6 being an OLB or CB. I think if either of these 2 players are there they will pull the trigger rather quickly.

Dee Milliner to play opposite Joe Haden. An attacking style defense has to put their corners on an island with no fear.

Dion Jordan to be the impact pass rusher an attack style defense needs, Also, teams that rush the passer needs to have mulpile pass rushers to rotate and keep fresh,

If neither of these players are there they will trade down if possible to acquire more picks then target the next best batch of OLB and CB's. I would also add a S and TE to the list.

At CB Xavier Rhoades, Desmond Trufant, or DJ Hayden for the same reasons I see Dee Milliner at 6.

AT OLB Jarvis Jones or Barkavious Mingo for the same reasons they would select Dion Jordan.

In a trade down Kenny Vaccaro or Eric Reid becomes an option. Lets not forget Lombardi and Belichick selected Eric Turner as their first pick with the Browns in 1991.

Tyler Eifert also comes into play as the best playmaker that fits what Chud and Turner wants to do on offense.

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I simply do not see the value in a Guard at 6. This team needs weapons and attackers, not interior linemen. (especially shorter interior linemen who lack any versatility at all) Guards are one position that can develop in the NFL. They can be built, rather than paying top dollar for them in the draft.

Teams, good teams, have Guards drafted in the 2nd, 3rd, 4th, or later rounds .... or who even went undrafted altogether. Good teams develop these players into starter quality players ... they generally don't invest 1st round picks in them.

I understand. Most don't. I do get it, but after 14 years in the pro's, and the guy is a 10 time pro bowl player, you and they will.

If you recall, a number of years ago I pimped Steve Hutcherson, and got the same "stuff".....how did that pick work out?

It might not be a "sexy" pick, but a pancake machine on the interior line isn't a bad thing....is it?

I do not disagree with your philosophy. If your drafting in the 1st round and Chance Warmack is the top player on your board pull the trigger. Best player available in the 1st. Fill needs 2nd thru. Cannot argue with that philosophy. Many experts say that is the best philosophy to gain value to your team and not draft busts. I would not mind at all if our knew front office used that philosophy no matter who they draft as long as it is the highest rated player on their board talent wise.

Steve Hutchinson (#17 in 2001) or Reggie Wayne? (#30)

Steve Hutchinson or Todd Heap? (#31)

Steve Hutchinson or Nate Clemons? (#21)

Steve Hutchinson or Casey Hampton? (#19)

Steve Hutchinson or Jeff Backus? (#18)

Steve Hutchinson or Ryan Pickett? (#29)

Steve Hutchinson or Drew Brees? (#32)

Steve Hutchinson is a very, very good player. However, I don't think that I would take him over Wayne, or Backus, or Clemons, or Brees .......

I would take him over Heap or Hampton.

It's hard to know what kind of impact he's had in the run game over the years, because he got to block for 2 really great RBs in Shaun Alexander and Adrain Peterson.

With the Vikings, they allowed:

In 2006, 43 sacks.
In 2007, 38 sacks
In 2008, 43 sacks.
In 2009, 34 sacks.

In 2004 and 2005, the 2 years prior to signing Hutchinson, the Vikings allowed 46 and 54 sacks. So, his presence did improve some things ..... but the Vikings were still up and down as far as allowing sacks.

I just don't see the huge impact that Hutchison, a likely Hall of Fame player, had on the Vikings. I would argue that Peterson and Brett Favre had a bigger impact.

Steve Hutchinson (American football)
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Steve Hutchinson

Steven J. Hutchinson (born November 1, 1977) is a former American football guard who played twelve seasons in the National Football League (NFL). He played college football for the University of Michigan, and was named an All-American. The Seattle Seahawks picked him in the first round of the 2001 NFL Draft, and he also played for the Minnesota Vikings and Tennessee Titans. He is a seven-time Pro Bowl selection.

I agree with ya Peen if that was someone's weakness on a good team and was just filling a few holes from a otherwise stellar roster. It then makes perfect sense to take a stud guard that high. We just not to that point yet. We have glaring needs in other positions to me that we can land and make a bigger impact (which we need) than a interior OL.
I sure do look for the day when we can do that Peen. That means we will prolly be picking.on the backside of the first round then!!!! Here is to wishing!!!!!

My scenario for only the Cleveland Browns would be a corner to shutdown other side of Joe Haden,then pick up a spy well a great gap and stop spy.The read option needs a spy on Qb and running back in opinion.Cleveland Browns might have that great spy and gap plug.Then say Cleveland Browns get there pass rusher,even though Kruger should be that with the money he was paid.So say a Qb because Brandon Weeden doesn't perform well enough,In opinion two or three Qb stand out to me for Cleveland Browns.EJ Manuel and Matt Barkley if you can get him to play mad.Matt Barkley reminds me of Terry Bradshaw in a way that determination out willed the athleticism,again have to get Matt Barkley fired up to want to win.In opinion might be easy,seems when you say you can't is when you can with sheer determination to prove nay sayers wrong or that it can be done.

Hey Bubba!

I understand your point, but somehow I don't think it is ever a bad idea or bad time to select a pro-bowl type player.

You never know - do Banner/Lombardi have the luxury of not being afraid of Risk regarding the draft? If you study "OUR" draft history n you know what pretty much the same around the NFL. Taking OL is a pretty safe pick. Low risk involved and Long term reward. If our guys just want their first pick ever to be known as a solid pick...we will have Warmack, Cooper or Warford on our roster. OL is not rocket scientist stuff in Evaluation which is why they have high success compared with other positions.

I think we need to take a risk...get a Ansah or a Jordan. If we trade back I can see a solid pick like OL (Warmack) or TE (Eifert)...JMHO

Your correct Ball.In opinion this 2013 NFL draft has some wella lot of hidden gems.Might have more probowlers than any class since Cleveland Browns was established again in 1999.All prospects have the potential but still comes down to a whole Team mentality even though the player has to hold up his end with the opposition across from them.The coaches,front office and yes fans have to give a positve to push each other to want it more than the other Teams out there.The player is only as good as the plan behind them and the fans voice to cheer and motivate that hard work thats been put in for the season.We as fans could help a lot by being the loudest fans in the NFL for 2013-2014 season.

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So this top 5 draft scenario has been running through my mind and wanted to get thoughts on who the Browns should select if they cannot find a trade partner. I believe if it played out this way (which I think is a real possibility) this could be a nightmare for those that think the Browns would then "reach" for their selection....

1. Luke Joeckel (Chiefs)
2. Eric Fisher (Jaguars)
3. Dee Milliner (Raiders)
4. Dion Jordan (Eagles)
5. Ziggy Ansah (Lions)

Again, If the Browns are unable to find a trade partner, who would be a logical choice?

is it really that hard?
Star Lotulelei or Sharrif Floyd.

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So this top 5 draft scenario has been running through my mind and wanted to get thoughts on who the Browns should select if they cannot find a trade partner. I believe if it played out this way (which I think is a real possibility) this could be a nightmare for those that think the Browns would then "reach" for their selection....

1. Luke Joeckel (Chiefs)
2. Eric Fisher (Jaguars)
3. Dee Milliner (Raiders)
4. Dion Jordan (Eagles)
5. Ziggy Ansah (Lions)

Again, If the Browns are unable to find a trade partner, who would be a logical choice?

is it really that hard?
Star Lotulelei or Sharrif Floyd.

Apart from my opinion that I think BOTH are incredibly overrated (along with Richradson..they just happen to be the "best" DTs...but nowhere near close to the best OTs, imho)...I think it'd be incrdibly stupid to have one of Rubin/Taylor/top10 pick on the bench and pretty much gutting off Winn and Hughes from playing time...we'd pretty much waste a top 10 pick on an already strong DL rotation....even if you trade one of them, you're losing value galore

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So this top 5 draft scenario has been running through my mind and wanted to get thoughts on who the Browns should select if they cannot find a trade partner. I believe if it played out this way (which I think is a real possibility) this could be a nightmare for those that think the Browns would then "reach" for their selection....

1. Luke Joeckel (Chiefs)
2. Eric Fisher (Jaguars)
3. Dee Milliner (Raiders)
4. Dion Jordan (Eagles)
5. Ziggy Ansah (Lions)

Again, If the Browns are unable to find a trade partner, who would be a logical choice?

is it really that hard?
Star Lotulelei or Sharrif Floyd.

Apart from my opinion that I think BOTH are incredibly overrated (along with Richradson..they just happen to be the "best" DTs...but nowhere near close to the best OTs, imho)...I think it'd be incrdibly stupid to have one of Rubin/Taylor/top10 pick on the bench and pretty much gutting off Winn and Hughes from playing time...we'd pretty much waste a top 10 pick on an already strong DL rotation....even if you trade one of them, you're losing value galore

I'm with you on this.The games I watched of Cleveland Browns 2012-2013 season when struggling most or more than norm was when Joe Haden was suspended or out of game.Much improvement when Joe Haden was in the lineup.So in opinion get a lock down cb just in case Joe Haden is unable to get on field for whatever reason.In opinion defensive and offensive lines look good maybe one on offense line but he was improving at end of season last year.

Where do I start with your comment..value?
The Browns want to solidify the defense. They are looking at potiential..They have Star rated very very high.
The other two DT's are high on their list as is Jordan and I'm thinking Rhodes the CB.
Just based off things I'm seeing and reading if they were to go DT just figure the player was rated high in their minds.
I'll go into the Rubin rumors later but at some point they are going to turn their attention to him and his contract.
I'm in a wait and see mode because they have a plan.
Now we can debate Rubin's performance anytime but thats not what I'm saying..I would prefer a CB..but if Milliner's gone they could take Rhodes, but I do not think they want him @ 6.
They have 8 CB's that they feel can come in and start.,yes I said 8 .Think about that.

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Hey Bubba!

I understand your point, but somehow I don't think it is ever a bad idea or bad time to select a pro-bowl type player.

7 x Pro-Bowl player. Going to be a sure-fire HOF inductee.

Nah, we wouldn't need that on our team.

Now, I'm not going to say that Chance Warmack will be that kind of player, but he's more likely to do it than the likes of Ziggy Ansah or Barkevious Mingo, Dion Jordon or Dee Milliner.

Truth is, we could get a starting quality CB as far back as the 3rd or even 4th round.

Heck, many Browns fans wanted us to go after Brent Grimes to fill the CB need. Where was he drafted?

He was signed as an undrafted player. We'd be able to fill that need much, much further down in the draft (especially in this one!)
;
Positions that I don't think we take in the first round with this draft: QB, RB, OT, C, DT, WR, CB, LB, any ST position.

Narrowing this down, that means the the following positions are possible first round choices: OG, S, TE, DE.

Those positions are where I would put the focus on the Browns drafting logic. That is, if the Browns are in the position to select who they think is the best player at any of these positions, they may take them even at #6. That means that Warmack, Vaccaro, Eifert, or Ansah could come off the board at that spot.

The question becomes whether the Browns decision-makers think they can move back and get one of these guys at a certain spot and would the compensation be worth the chance of losing the person they want? If they can find a trade partner and think the compensation is worth the risk, they will probably make a trade. If they can't find a trade partner or don't think the compensation is worth the risk, they'll take one of those players.

I'm glad, quite honestly, that the front office puts no stock in what the fans have to say. If they did, we'd suck worse than what we have at this point.

I'm all for replacing Weeden, but I don't see the Browns taking a flyer on any of these guys as his replacement in the first round. Maybe in the 3rd round if they can find the team's future franchise QB to just groom. As for myself, I like Mike Glennon.

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Apart from my opinion that I think BOTH are incredibly overrated (along with Richradson..they just happen to be the "best" DTs...but nowhere near close to the best OTs, imho)...I think it'd be incrdibly stupid to have one of Rubin/Taylor/top10 pick on the bench and pretty much gutting off Winn and Hughes from playing time...we'd pretty much waste a top 10 pick on an already strong DL rotation....even if you trade one of them, you're losing value galore

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Quick to critique others but you don't have a selection of your own.

Poor form IMO.

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So this top 5 draft scenario has been running through my mind and wanted to get thoughts on who the Browns should select if they cannot find a trade partner. I believe if it played out this way (which I think is a real possibility) this could be a nightmare for those that think the Browns would then "reach" for their selection....

1. Luke Joeckel (Chiefs)
2. Eric Fisher (Jaguars)
3. Dee Milliner (Raiders)
4. Dion Jordan (Eagles)
5. Ziggy Ansah (Lions)

Again, If the Browns are unable to find a trade partner, who would be a logical choice?

i think you have to think about hayden at #6

I believe this to be the Browns board:

Star Lotulelei
Shariff Floyd
Dion Jordan
Chance Warmack
Jonathan Cooper
Tyler Eifert
Dee Milliner
Ziggy Ansah
Barkevious Mingo

I agree that he's a great player, and have said that he is almost certainly a Hall of Fame candidate.

What I question is the impact that even a Hall of Fame Guard has on a team these days.

Oh lawd.....I sure hope you ain't right!!!!

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Quick to critique others but you don't have a selection of your own.

Poor form IMO.

I think I've made it clear in numerous other threads what I want to happen with pick no 6 in pretty much any scenario possible. I even started a thread about it, but if I can't even get a mid rounder for dropping down a bit I just take the next highest CB on my board.
It would not be great value, but that's what happens when you back yourself up for major needs going into a draft while sitting on 35mil of cap.

I've been a believer that a trade down just isn't going to happen. I would love for it to happen, but I really don't see why someone would give up what we'd want to move up to 6. Do you really pull that move for a tackle? That's a QB type of move. Maybe a big time impact defensive player. I just don't see it. I think we are stuck at 6. I'm ok with that becuase I believe we can add a good player.

I really like Jordan, Eiffert, Mingo, and Austin. To a lesser extent I like Floyd, Milliner, Ansah, Cooper, and Warmack.

I left the tackles off, even though there are a few that I think are very good, just because it's obvious we are set at that position and cannot use valuable resources for depth.

I left Star Lotoulelei off my list, because I haven't seen enough of him. Cooper and Ansah I have seen limited playing time. The rest of these guys I feel like I have seen a good portion, most of their games from last season, and even from the season before.

I like Milliner, but I don't see him as a top 10 pick kinda CB. I don't think you are getting Revis or even another Haden. He's gonna be a decent player but I think we can do better with this pick.

I really really like Eiffert. I've seen him a ton on TV as well as a few times in person. He's the real deal. Unbelievable feet and hands. He reminds me of Joe J. I know where he's ranked, but if the Browns really like this guy and don't see a trade down scenario where they still could get him, I have no problem with them overspending the pick. I think between Chud and Norv, they have a pretty firm grip on if this guy is NFL stud material. I also believe he is a player that helps this team immediately. His value could be even higher if he had a legitimate QB during his tenure at ND, he never really did.

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I've been a believer that a trade down just isn't going to happen. I would love for it to happen, but I really don't see why someone would give up what we'd want to move up to 6. Do you really pull that move for a tackle? That's a QB type of move.

What do you think we are asking for? A 2nd round pick would probably do the trick.

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Oh lawd.....I sure hope you ain't right!!!!

Why? It makes sense to me.

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I've been a believer that a trade down just isn't going to happen. I would love for it to happen, but I really don't see why someone would give up what we'd want to move up to 6. Do you really pull that move for a tackle? That's a QB type of move.

What do you think we are asking for? A 2nd round pick would probably do the trick.

That depends on where it's coming from but yeah I think a second rounder is involved.

I'm thinking from the other side of the deal though. What are you moving up to get?

I'm all for trading a few spots back. If we start getting into the late teens or beyond that I think a future 1 has to be in play. That to me is mind boggling over this crop of top 5-6 players.

A future first round pick does not have to be involved unless the team trading up is coming from the late first round.

Why? It makes sense to me ]

I guess that's all that matters!