Day 2. What happens next? - DawgTalkers.net

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To move into the 2nd, I think it'd cost us Sheard and next year's 2nd, or possibly 3rd. I'd consider it for Sheard/next year's 3rd.

Guys I'd like to see us target - Amerson, Poyer, Swearinger, Warford, Winters, Wreh-Wilson. FS/CB, then OG...

Most Browns fans overvalue our own players but you have EXTREMELY UNDER-VALUED Jabaal Sheard. Charlie Casserly was on record stating that the Browns would be able to get a late 1st rounder for him if they wanted to move him. Conservatively speaking, they could get a 2nd & 4th from somebody for him. Not sure how you figure it would cost us a 2nd rounder AND Sheard to get a 2nd rounder this year. No way.

And btw if the Browns can't get a 2nd rounder PLUS for Sheard, then forget it. Banner/Chud are right, you can't have enough pass rushers. My only concern is if Sheard can make the transition.

Put this in the Mingo thread, too.

If a team is giving up their 2nd rounder, I think they'll want a physical on Sheard. I don't see them risking that pick without knowing he is healthy. And once that pick is gone, no way for the trade partner to get it back. Not saying it won't/hasn't been done, but I bet we evaluate our LBs and Sheard's transition and if we still want a trade it will be around the start of the season for a 2014 draft pick.

Trading up to Round 2? I've got no problem giving up our 3rd and a couple late rounders if we see the right guy. CB, FS, TE, G. I don't care. our roster is overstocked in late-round picks, got plenty of young projects. We Need more starters.

What do we do tonight? Well, what we don't do, in my opinion, is draft a QB, I don't care if one falls.

I'm thinking that if I'm the Browns I have identified a couple DBs that I want and I watch to see who starts to fall and if I need to move up just a little to grab one, then I might consider it but I'm not giving away the farm to do it. If we sit still, we take the best DB or OG available..

I'm not sure what he's done to garner a late first for him...I just don't see it. He's got 2 years in the league, and a 50-60 tackle and 7-8 sack guy. I just don't see us getting more than a late 2nd/early 3rd for him (unless someone reaches out to us and wants him bad). Add that to a mid 2nd or mid 3rd next year that it equates to a 2nd this year. (250-350 points plus 200-400 points = late first to mid second, so maybe the 2nd next year is too high, 3rd or 4th is better, I didn't look at the numbers)

I agree with you on not getting rid of him, we can't have enough pass rushers. My preference would be to keep him, but with the right deal for the right player, I'd consider it.

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Not that I wanted him in the 1st round, but I'm a little shocked by a couple of guys not going in the first and one that did.

can't believe that Geno Smith and Matt Barkely didn't get snagged in the first. Maybe not so much Barkley. But I was listening to you guys about EJ and am shocked that he was taken so high..

Well, I guess we need to fills the CB and S Spots in the 3 or 4th unless we trade someone (sheard/taylor/rubin) to get a second rounder.. I'd hope we'd get more than just a 2nd rounder for Taylor or Rubin.

Mingo has the right name for the Dawgpound, but I didn't think he'd go that high.. I guess I"m still in a little shock.

Here's the thing Daman..team boards are totally different than the player rankings/mocks that draft sites put out.
That doesn't mean that the picks are going to turn out good, diesn't mean they don't make mistakes...it just means they evaluate differently than we are aware of.

I think Sheard fills a nice role for us as a situational OLB/DE in Horton's multi front defense. He has skills, and I don't think there's a second rounder worth the risk of giving up what Sheard brings to the table.

I think we sit tight and take one of the 3rd tier CBs that drops to us in the 3rd.
Then, tomorrow, Escobar falls into our lap in the 4th.

I look for one of three positions: OG, FS, CB.

If we don't draft one of those positions, I will be questioning our sanity (unless somebody really falls into our laps)

Edge Rushers went quick...Sheard could be a very attractive Player for a 4-3 team only because we drafted an Edge Rusher at overall #6. It would be different if Sheard has been playing LB all these years. More than worth an early 2nd round pick for a team needing that DE...Hunt n other prospects just don't play up to Sheards level.

If no trade then I suspect this first season we will only see Mingo on passing downs ala Aldon Smith n Sheard in there as the starter.

Trade into??? Only if the pickings are slim n we are targeting a guy at a position that is having a big run...For Instance if there is a Safety that we WANT Really WANT n because 3 Safeties got taken in the first round all ready...We have high regards for Cyprien n he won't drop any further...We might go get him cause all others we consider projects??? Not saying this is going to happen just saying this type of scenario could have us move into the 2nd...Probably have to give up our 3rd, 4th n one of our 5ths.

JMHO - I'm w/Vers...trade for a player - I'm ok - I'd rather get 3 solid players with the picks we would have to give up...strength of this draft is in the depth of mid-late round talents.

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...our roster is overstocked in late-round picks, got plenty of young projects. We Need more starters.

Yes, we do, but you're not very likely to find any gems in the late rounds. Therefore, I'd bundle picks to move back into the 2nd, while keeping our 3rd, if possible...

banner said last night sheard wont be traded............so you can forget about getting back into the 2nd round. Banner will continue to ignore the glaring and massive hole at cb. This years you will see teams blow us out of the water through the air....especially if and when haden gets hurt.......

You clearly have no idea how deep this draft is in corners.

We'll get one, and it'll be a good one.

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You clearly have no idea how deep this draft is in corners.

We'll get one, and it'll be a good one.

I think you are correct.

Blow us out of the water through the air???

Better have that pass rush than just one coverage guy...Of course the prospect has to deliver. Lets say Millner does lets say Mingo does. Millner locks his guy down...leave 2-3 others blowing us out of the water.

Mingo delivers as an outstanding edgerusher. Improves Kruger, Improves 4-5 DB we got back there. Really I don't see anything stopping these great air attacks better than a Pass rush!

Banner for all the adjectives he has been called has been rather truthful - Come on JOE be a little sneakier. Don't really want Sheard to go but he has good value n with Groves n Mingo at the same position combined with the fact that Sheard has to make the Transition himself (I think he can) - unless we move him inside I see him as the only option for us to go into the 2nd. I see 6th very worthy CBs still on the board with/close to 2nd round grades...n not counting Mathieu as one of them or Logan Ryan.

JMHO

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Mingo delivers as an outstanding edgerusher

but... does he?

If he does, I don't think anyone will be upset with the pick.

Totally agree.

Amerson is going to be a hell of a corner, and he may last to the 3rd round.

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Mingo delivers as an outstanding edgerusher

but... does he?

If he does, I don't think anyone will be upset with the pick.

after re-watching the Chik-Fil-A game, I am sold. Heck, that 2nd play of the game is ridiculous.

he plays out of control, but that's part of the reason he is so disruptive.

We do what the Bengals did in the first. Get our second quality TE to go with Cameron....Travis Kelce.

That or BPA.

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banner said last night sheard wont be traded............so you can forget about getting back into the 2nd round. Banner will continue to ignore the glaring and massive hole at cb. This years you will see teams blow us out of the water through the air....especially if and when haden gets hurt.......

I am confident that the front office is aware of our needs at CB, and elsewhere. I am also confident that they did their due diligence on Milliner and for whatever reason, had Mingo graded higher. A lot of the mocks I have seen had Milliner gone by our pick, and I think as many had Detroit taking Milliner as there were us taking him. Not only did he get past Detroit to us, but he dropped 5 slots after us. Him falling to the Jets says there were some concerns, as almost any team would have room for a top flight corner. Especially us and Detroit.

Since we did not see Milliner as our top choice at #6, an even bigger mistake would have been to take the next CB on our list, which would have been a reach. At #6, you go BPA; not best CB, or best QB or whatever.

Possibly you missed this:

"Better have that pass rush than just one coverage guy...Of course the prospect has to deliver. Lets say Millner does lets say Mingo does. Millner locks his guy down...leave 2-3 others blowing us out of the water."

No where am I claiming this as a fact ("Mingo delivers as an outstanding edgerusher"). Just trying to do a FAIR comparison with the two prospects. Cause some dawgs act as if Millner delivers n Mingo does not n then compare them. I'm looking at it as if BOTH Deliver as prospects. That's all...I was guaranteeing nothing. I don't mind a little criticism...but please read my posts then criticize.

We have no clue or assurance which prospect DOES DELIVER. Was trying to show that Pass Rusher reaching their Potential would help the Browns more than a CB.

JMHO

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We do what the Bengals did in the first. Get our second quality TE to go with Cameron....Travis Kelce.

That or BPA.

Just a tad concerned about the prospects of BPA..Banner said they can't fix every hole and they were not going to force a pick.
So it all depends on what CB is on their board vs another positional player and who is rated higher..we could see a TE or a FS.

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I'm sure we want into the 2nd, but without a trade down from 6, I don't see how that's going to happen. And no, we better not trade any of next years draft.

We'll wait for our 3rd round selection.

I can see it happening with a trade of players. With the selection of Mingo, it appears that Sheard is being shopped. Can we get a 2nd for him from a 4-3 team? It's not beyond the pale. He's demonstrated his ability at the position on the Browns that past two seasons.

If you're an NFL GM, would you rather have any of the 4-3 DEs left or Jabaal Sheard? Jabaal Sheard has two years against NFL level talent has has been the Browns leader in sacks both seasons (8.5 in 2011 and 7.0 last year). I would say that he's probably better than any of the remaining DEs on the board and he comes with a reasonable price tag with 2 years remaining. We could probably seek and get a 2nd rounder for him. We might have to take a discounted bit for him but considering what's available in the draft or having Sheard? I think the Browns may very well be drafting in the 2nd round still.

OK gotcha... you were continuing your scenario of him panning out. Yes, I absolutely agree that a terrific pass rusher is better than a terrific 2nd corner. Still lots of startable guys left in the draft. Thanks!

*Sigh*

Why the hell does everyone want to trade Sheard?

Honestly, I don't get it.

The Browns have said, all along, that they want to be able to send wave after wave of pass rushers after the QB. Right now they are 4 deep as far as being able to do so. Groves is a nice piece, and Kruger is a big OLB who can rush the passer. Both Sheard and Mingo are quick off the line. Sheard is probably our 2nd most explosive pass rusher off the line.

I think of this alignment, and just go crazy with anticipation .....

Bryant, Taylor, Rubin, Sheard
Mingo, Robertson, Kruger

On a 2nd or 3rd and long, this is insane speed. We could slide Kruger up tot he line, and drop Sheard back ...... or move Mingo up ....... or keep DQ in and leave one of the 3 outside rushers out ..... or so on. We can use Groves if we want. We could run a defense with ....

Mingo, Bryant, Rubin, Sheard
Groves, Robertson (or DQ) and Kruger

For passing situations, this is scary speed off the edges.

We could also use all of Groves, Kruger, Sheard, and Mingo all at the same time. Big pass rush ability there.

I read an article that said that we had the worst pass rush production from the LB corps of any team in the league. I think that we'll be much better this year, and I doubt that the team has any desire to weaken this new strength. I want to build on this strength.

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Totally agree.

Amerson is going to be a hell of a corner, and he may last to the 3rd round.

I would love it if we get Amerson. I think he is going to be a total ball hawk

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banner said last night sheard wont be traded............so you can forget about getting back into the 2nd round. Banner will continue to ignore the glaring and massive hole at cb. This years you will see teams blow us out of the water through the air....especially if and when haden gets hurt.......

I am confident that the front office is aware of our needs at CB, and elsewhere. I am also confident that they did their due diligence on Milliner and for whatever reason, had Mingo graded higher. A lot of the mocks I have seen had Milliner gone by our pick, and I think as many had Detroit taking Milliner as there were us taking him. Not only did he get past Detroit to us, but he dropped 5 slots after us. Him falling to the Jets says there were some concerns, as almost any team would have room for a top flight corner. Especially us and Detroit.

Since we did not see Milliner as our top choice at #6, an even bigger mistake would have been to take the next CB on our list, which would have been a reach. At #6, you go BPA; not best CB, or best QB or whatever.

Very well summarized.

Of course, the Banner/Lombardi haters will try and push their agenda ad nauseum. Who in their right mind would take a flyer on a guy coming off 5 frickin' surgeries? I don't care how minor, if you've had 5 surgeries before taking your first hit in the NFL, you have durability issues.

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Do we trade into the 2nd round, or stand pat? If the latter, what position are we targeting?

Prediction time.

Considering what we've done so far, a LB or another DE.

From what was said last night at the end of the draft, somewhere between 8-10 CB's could easily be taken in the second round. So unless they're willing to gamble in the 12th to 15th CB in this draft, they better do something.

And for those claiming we can wait till the 3rd because this draft is deep at CB? That's far more wishful thinking than a reality.

Well, it's a gamble. But there most certainly could be a very good corner sitting there in the third round.

Since I'm pretty sure you've seen Lombardi's record in the draft at the GM position in the NFL, could you please tell me what there is to like?

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Well, it's a gamble. But there most certainly could be a very good corner sitting there in the third round.

Could possibly, but not likely. I just know as weak as we are at the position and as many serviceable FA's as were on the market, that there would be some plan in place to address the CB issue with some quality.

I know we can't address all of our needs in one off-season, but to focus all of your energy and main investments in the front seven and ignore other glaring weaknesses seems like they're putting all their eggs in one basket.

From round three on, it's far more gambles than answers so I hope we get back into round 2 some way and address the CB issue. But I'm not holding my breath here.

Depth on the front 7 is a great thing to have. But with a secondary devoid of a second CB or S, depth on the DL seems more like a luxury we can't really afford right now.

I think we are going to draft a CB and S in the 3rd and 4th. Then which ever is the 3rd will likely start and we will sign a FA to take the other starting spot. Not ideal but I think the 3rd rounder will be a solid starter.

Just to throw another log on the fire:

web page

BEST AVAILABLE NFL FREE AGENTS - DEFENSE
By Adam Caplan
Last updated:
April 23, 2013 9:09 am ET

...

Safety
Kerry Rhodes
Charles Woodson
Gerald Sensabaugh
Quintin Mikell
Sherrod Martin
Atari Bigby
Jordan Babineaux
Madieu Williams
Ronde Barber
Erik Coleman
Abram Elam
Charlie Peprah
Eric Smith
Chris Crocker
Quintin Demps
Chris Hope
James Sanders (suspended four games)
Sean Considine
Sabby Piscitelli
Corey Lynch
Matt Giordano
Josh Barrett
Troy Nolan
Eric Frampton
Tyrone Culver
Ray Ventrone
Derrick Martin
Nate Ness

Cornerback
Quentin Jammer
Shawntae Spencer
Sheldon Brown
Jason Allen
Terrence McGee
Drew Coleman
Rashean Mathis
Cedric Griffin
Nate Clements
Stanford Routt
Will Allen
Marcus Trufant
Chris Carr
Ryan Mouton
Jacob Lacey
Elbert Mack
Michael Coe
Justin Tryon
Brandon McDonald
Michael Adams
Bruce Johnson
Travis Daniels
William Middleton
Kennard Cox
Brian Witherspoon

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Depth on the front 7 is a great thing to have. But with a secondary devoid of a second CB or S, depth on the DL seems more like a luxury we can't really afford right now.

Sorry, but bull.

The 3-4 is an attacking, pressure defense. It is all about getting pressure on the QB immediately off the snap. That attacking attitude and pressure help the secondary far more than the reverse.

Look at the Ravens last year. Who were their corners when they faced (and beat) Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, and Colin Kaepernick in the playoffs? Remember that their #1 CB, Ladarius Webb, was out with an injury.

Who were the Steelers CBs last year?

They had the #1 defense in the NFL last year. They had the #1 pass defense. They brought pressure in torrents. Who were their starting CBs?

I remember Keenan Lewis, because he was a highly sought after free agent after his season last year. Are their other CBs Hall of Fame candidates? Ike Taylor is decent, but older, and winding down. Curtis Brown? Cortez Allen? Heck, they just re-signed William Gay. Isn't that an impressive CB corps? They make it work though, because of the pressure they bring wave after wave after wave. Why do so many of their players who don't create pressure do well in Pittsburgh and fail elsewhere? Because that pressure makes them a great deal better. Opposing QBs never get comfortable. Receivers get frustrated because they can't get anything deep, because the QB doesn't have time. The Steelers bring pressure off the edge, and guys who are 6.3" to 6'5" inside to cause a breakdown of the passing lanes. They blitz anyone and everyone from anywhere and everywhere.

They didn't have the #1 defense, and #1 pass defense last year because of their great CBs. They did because of the incredible pressure they bring.

just for the record...never ever stated - I WANT TO TRADE SHEARD...just contributing in the discussion of getting into the 2nd round. Sheard would be the only player that would be
a. Worth a 2nd round pick
b. Might be expendable.

I've stated I would love to see him transitioned to ILB.
Right now we got an overall #6 pick who will be getting all the attention n OPPORTUNITY...we also have Groves (maybe he will compete ILB?) just stating that he could be expendable. Not wishing him gone or anything. Just stating the probability could be there.

Why I suggest Sheard at ILB cause I too covet that versatility putting him with hand down...blitz packages with him on the field...maybe put Bryant at 4 Tech...Sheard at 50Tech...n Mingo at 70/90 tech... that would be Bryant right over the DE...Sheard standing up just outside shoulder of Bryant n Mingo standing up just outside of Sheard. You know an Overload that we never do...or execute lol

I like the multiple looks which again why I suggested Sheard ILB.

But if we truly are going to Want to trade a player for a 2nd rounder I don't see anyone else but Sheard. Not cause I want him...just Possibilities.

As always JMHO

Best available at each position including guys Browns have shown interest in:

G Larry Warford, Kentucky
TE Zack Ertz, Stanford
TE Vance McDonald, Rice
TE Travis Kelce, Cincinnati
TE Gavin Escobar, SD St
CB Johnthan Banks, Miss St
CB Darius Slay, Miss St
CB Jamar Taylor, Boise St
CB Blidi Wreh-Wilson
CB Robert Alford, SE Louisiana
CB Logan Ryan, Rutgers
CB Jordan Poyer, Oregon St
CB Dwayne Gratz, UConn
CB BW Webb, William & Mary
S John Cyprien, FIU
S JJ Wilcox, Southern
S DJ Swearinger, South Carolina
S Philip Thomas, Fresno St
S Bacarri Rambo, Georgia

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Just to throw another log on the fire:

web page

BEST AVAILABLE NFL FREE AGENTS - DEFENSE
By Adam Caplan
Last updated:
April 23, 2013 9:09 am ET

...

Safety
Kerry Rhodes
Gerald Sensabaugh
Quintin Mikell
Madieu Williams

Cornerback
Quentin Jammer
Shawntae Spencer
Sheldon Brown
Stanford Routt

I was just checking this. I would take any of the guys here. Based on them the S look better so I would go CB in round 3. Then sign Kerry Rhodes.

Amerson or Logan Ryan. Or Slay if he's there.

[quoteVery well summarized.

especially shoulder injuries

Jet's are getting blasted for taking him.

I don't see Sheard as "expendable". That's the difference.

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We'll get one, and it'll be a good one.

Robert Alford
Dwayne Gratz
Logan Ryan
Darius Slay
B.W. Webb
Blidi Wreh-Wilson

All of these corners should or could fall to us in the third.

Whose talking about HOF CB's?

Name one guy on our roster other than Haden you feel is worthy of even being an NFL starter, much less HOF'er?

How about S? Other then Ward, who do you have penciled in? Now I don't think Ward is great, but in Hortons scheme I think he will do quite well.

And I fully understand about pressure. I also understand we will be VERY vulnerable to two TE sets as it stands now. We will be vulnerable at short to intermediate slant routes.

I would have been very happy with more than a few of the FA CB's available. None of which I consider to be great CB's, but very serviceable ones. We don't even have that.

And saying we will find one in round 3 is a big gamble. And which LBer's do we have that we can depend on to drop back in coverage?

You can go on and on all you wish, but we don't have a serviceable secondary, we have a VERY poor secondary. Big difference and if we don't do something, somehow to seriously address that, it will show all too well.

Saying it won't doesn't make it so.

And remember this, both the Steelers and Ravens know this type of D because they play it and practice against it every week. It won't be some foreign animal to them.

Our CBs will be better because of the pressure we'll bring. Pressure makes coverage guys better, and constant, intense pressure makes them better still.

I gave 2 examples of teams that have played 3rd round, 4th round, and other CBs, and been successful doing so. There is no reason we can't do the same, if we can consistently bring pressure.

I'm hoping you're right. I just know from experience that more times than not, 3rd and 4th round talent is more of the project variety that don't pan out more often than do.

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Put this in the Mingo thread, too.

If a team is giving up their 2nd rounder, I think they'll want a physical on Sheard. I don't see them risking that pick without knowing he is healthy. And once that pick is gone, no way for the trade partner to get it back. Not saying it won't/hasn't been done, but I bet we evaluate our LBs and Sheard's transition and if we still want a trade it will be around the start of the season for a 2014 draft pick.

Trading up to Round 2? I've got no problem giving up our 3rd and a couple late rounders if we see the right guy. CB, FS, TE, G. I don't care. our roster is overstocked in late-round picks, got plenty of young projects. We Need more starters.

Is there a question about Sheards Health?

What did I miss?

People seem to think having 4 good pass rushers is a bad idea.

List of talent available for third and fourth:

CB's: Jamar Taylor (Boise); Johnathan Banks (Miss. St.); David Amerson (NC St.)
Safety: DJ Swearinge (S. Carolina); Bacarri Rambo (Georgia); Shamarko Thomas (Syracuse); Phillip Thomas (Fresno State)

Other good peeps:
DT: Jesse Williams (Alabama); Johnathan Hankins (THE Ohio State Buckeyes)
DE: William Gholston (Mich St.); Margus Hunt (SMU);
C/OG: Barrett Jones (Alabama); Brian Schwenke (Cal)
TE: Zach Ertz (Stanford); Jordan Reed (FL); Travis Kelce (Cincinnati); Gavin Escobar (San Diego St.); Stoneburner (THE Ohio State Buckeyes); Nick Kasa (Colorado)
WR Speed: Markus Wheaton (Oregon St)
WR Possession: Keenan Allen (Cal); Ryan Swope (Texas A&M)
WR Combo Possession/Speed: Justin Hunter (Tennessee); Robert Woods (USC); Quinton Patton (Louisiana Tech)

A lot of good talent still left in the pool. I foresee a big push for QB's and Receivers in the second. Don't forget no one took a RB. We should see plenty of good CB's and Safeties fall into the third round. In my opinion, I think it would be bigger help if Browns get a safety.

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People seem to think having 4 good pass rushers is a bad idea.

Oh, it's great....I'd also like 4 good WRs and 4 good Gs and 4 good CBs, oh wait....we only have one, mabye we should get a 2nd good CB first before we get a good 3rd/4th pass rusher. People want to love the pick because they're homers, if we picked Milliner half the board would be saying "thank god we didn't go Mingo over Milliner"

Funny enough you were the only one in the other thread who had Mingo as a category 1 player labeling him "a bust waiting to happen". That's exactly why I opened that thread and it's quite telling that no one has the guts or knowledge to say what he wants the Browns to do with pick 68....after the fact "homerism" is guaranteed

I did. And I still think it's a boom or bust pick.

I don't love it. He's raw. He's sort of weak. I would have picked Millner.

But I also thought that Jordan and Ansah would be there, so Mingo being the clear #1 pass rusher makes him much more tolerable.

Also, that was after it was rumored we would be trading UP for Mingo. I would have been livid if we did that.

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Oh, it's great....I'd also like 4 good WRs and 4 good Gs and 4 good CBs, oh wait....we only have one, mabye we should get a 2nd good CB first before we get a good 3rd/4th pass rusher. People want to love the pick because they're homers, if we picked Milliner half the board would be saying "thank god we didn't go Mingo over Milliner"

Who is running the defense Jauron or Horton? I'd agree having two CB's is important for Jauron, but not in Horton's schemes, you need pass rushers.

If we had your list of 4's above, how sweet we wouldn't have drafted early!!!

Just so you know, Bugs, Swope had the fastest 40 time of all the wideouts you listed there...

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Just so you know, Bugs, Swope had the fastest 40 time of all the wideouts you listed there...

I debated where to put him. To me, I wouldn't put him in the same category as Tavon Austin (speed receiver). His size is right on the bubble as a pure possession receiver. You could say both speed/possession. In the end, I placed as a possession. The real question: Is he a better option than Norwood, Cooper, or Benjamin? I believe he'd put up a good fight.

i watched that youtube vid of Mingo... there was nothing on it that made me say wow. He had 4 tackles for loss, 2 of which were missed blocking assignments. Got credited for .5 sack when he shouldnt of. I saw player that played out of control and only had 1 move (spin). I didnt see a very quick first step, which supposedly he has. He got no push on the very poor Clemson line. He is undersized and tackles poorly. His production shows this. I would of much rather of had Jarvis Jones if we wanted another OLB.

This kid has a lot of work to do. I dont expect him to start nor make a big splash when he does play. If your a top 10 pick, #6 overall, you should immediately come into the NFL and start, if not shine. Not one person on here has sure fire said he will start next year. And if thats the case than I have to give a very poor grade on the pick.
I hope he gets bigger, i hope he learns to play undercontrol, I hope he learns... but these things aren't what I should be saying after we draft at #6 overall.

Paco, other than the two OT's Fisher and Joeckel, what player looked the part of a sure thing? Isn't this years theme "highest potential?"

Dion Jordon and Javaris Jones had the better college stats but more medical concerns. If you go another positions, Milliner had medical issues and stats weren't nearly as eye popping as past year CB draftees.

In the end, it boiled down trading down taking Jones or get Mingo. Per their draft board Mingo rated higher. A lot of mock drafts had Mingo going 9-12. To me, it doesn't seem a huge reach. If I had to guess, I bet the trade partner was St. Louis, so we would have taken Jones at 16.

Do you take Tyrann Mathieu if he is there when we pick?

I say yes. He can cover the slot and play safety. He can also return punts and kicks.

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Do you take Tyrann Mathieu if he is there when we pick?

I say yes. He can cover the slot and play safety. He can also return punts and kicks.

Yes, just opened a thread on this subject...

Is he going to start over Mingo or Kruger??? of course he has become Expendable...that does not mean he is not an asset if he remains. But unless Mingo is a Bust - He's going to start - Kruger was this regimes big FA investment you know he is going to start. I don't get it? just where is Sheard not expendable...as a role player or back up. The only...ONLY way he is not expendable is if these guys believe he can be a stud as a starting ILB.

If not he is expendable n available for trade.

But anyways I came to this THREAD cause I'm hearing we have been working on a trade for Davone Bess a slot WR n punt returner from Miami supposedly a done deal just a mid-late round pick being haggled on - deal has to be done by 7pm cause that is the flight needed to bring him to Cleveland to pass the physical before tomorrow's draft which I guess is where the picks are that are concerned???

Just letting you know. source is NFL network.

Banner has been pretty true to his word n he has stated he will not trade Sheard. So don't get mad at me Ytown...just stating he is expendable now cause of who n where we picked a guy who plays the same position. So far Banner has been consistent n since he says we aren't trading Sheard...I doubt he would be traded. just if we did that is the guy to get us in the 2nd.

JMHO

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Oh, it's great....I'd also like 4 good WRs and 4 good Gs and 4 good CBs, oh wait....we only have one, mabye we should get a 2nd good CB first before we get a good 3rd/4th pass rusher. People want to love the pick because they're homers, if we picked Milliner half the board would be saying "thank god we didn't go Mingo over Milliner"

This is 100% correct.

If we picked Millner I would have praised the pick probably cause that means we had an excellent medical review of him.

I always try to understand the pick. And assume our guys did their due deligence after all we know Django had a full medical report of Millner after the combine sent to him. Oh n had personal interviews regarding X's n O's.

Keep in mind Pit...again siding with anyone you can

100% with ok...but keep in mind DJango wanted Ziggy Ansah (as did I btw) for the SAME EXACT REASONS our FO wanted Mingo...just wasn't his CHOICE so it sucks...that's the difference between he n I...I'm like ok I get it why we went for Mingo. I preferred Ziggy but we got Mingo n are excited about that as in he seemed like the guy we were targeting. Has nothing to do with Homer n Real...very simple Django actually thinks he is the best GM in the NFL after all he does a mock every year....lol

Come on DJ doesn't even know our Defense what is exactly needed for our DC to covet Mingo means a lot I know I know that don't count cause Horton guess what is a HOMER too....

later n enjoy

I can never have a problem going best player available and it's obvious that's what we did.

If people don't think Mingo was the best player available I can understand their consternation with the pick.

I disagree.

The Cardinals played Groves, Acho and Schofield at OLB last year. They would have played them all even without injuries, because Horton likes a rotation. I bet that he would have added another player to the rotation if he'd had one. It would have kept his pass rushers fresher, and probably healthier to boot. I bet that Horton is just licking his chops with anticipation over the tools he gets to work with on this front 7.

Guys in the Jags war room are passing the phone around.

I'd recommend speaker phone.

If we add Kiko Alanso then we'd have a Kiko and a KeKe. Can you even imagine?

I'm wondering if the Titans take a QB here.... would make sense for them...

Titans just got a man in Justin Hunter.

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I'm wondering if the Titans take a QB here.... would make sense for them...

Nope - went with Hunter... like the kid but a little surprised that they didn't go QB... I know Locker is young and Fitzpatrick but I'm not sold on either...

My buddy is a big Titans fan.

He likes the Justin Hunter pick.

Hated the Chance Warmack pick though. Said they have bigger needs. He actually was hoping Mingo would fall to 10.

He's a good pick for them - they needed help at WR... especially if Locker is finally going to get it...

Eagles just took my guy, Zach Ertz.

One of my favorite players in the draft.

I want the Jets to take Teo... another defensive guy and Teo in NY with Tebow (if he stays) would guarantee a HUGE circus!

I think the Jets went into this draft with no intention of taking a QB, but if Geno is still there, he's going to be too much of a value for them to pass up.

Geno to the Jets if he's there, is my guess.

I read an article about them trying to move up in the 2nd to get a QB... so we'll see...

I like Daruis Slay a lot, too.

I'm glad we got Gordon and would still give up our 2nd for him but man there's a lot of talent at the top of this 2nd round.

He doesn't fit the WCO while Barkley does.

Also, if the Browns trade up into the 2nd round pick will we have someone announce for us?

Wonder if Lacy is going to Cincy here...

La Caforna said it was Geo Bernard.

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La Caforna said it was Geo Bernard.

ESPN, too.

ESPN is also saying Teo to Chargers.

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Wonder if Lacy is going to Cincy here...

Well I was right on RB but not the player...

SD would be a good place for him - get him back closer to family... should have some good support in that area.

I need to stay off the board, I like not knowing the picks til they're announced.

NFL Network guys are guessing, but they're not telling who it is.

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I need to stay off the board, I like not knowing the picks til they're announced.

NFL Network guys are guessing, but they're not telling who it is.

Haha - i was thinking the same thing - I really like finding out when Roger announces it...

Well, at least Teo's girlfriend is happy he's going to be near her in California! Oh, wait......hahaha

ESPN is saying we got Bess.

Looking for a credible link.

NFL Network saying that too.

Wondering what we gave up.

And there goes Geno to the Jets.

Well they got their guy... Most fans happy... some not so much... gotta love it... either way they had to do something at QB...

Glad I'm not a Jets fan.

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Glad I'm not a Jets fan.

ain't that the truth.

http://www.thephinsider.com/2013/4/26/4272134/dolphins-trade-davone-bess-to-cleveland-browns

Supposedly a 'mid-round pick'.

I look at whoever we pick like this.

If the player pans out, Banner will look like a Genius

If the flop, Lombardi will look like an idiot

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I look at whoever we pick like this.

If the player pans out, Banner will look like a Genius

If the flop, Lombardi will look like an idiot

Not to me. Banner is obviously running this show. Any flubs go on his ticket. Lombardi is just a yes man to Banner. That's why Banner hired him. Make no mistake. Everything goes through Banner.

Everyone looks at corner as a big need and of course it is. But I think we need another DE and an ILB just as badly. We need a real enforcer to play next to DQ(and hopefully take DQ's place soon). A Ray Lewis type that can blow up a running back, and fast enough to roam sideline to sideline. We also need another DE. We have Bryant on one side. We have nothing on the other but BIG questions. I had hoped we would trade some of our 4-3 centric players for picks that better fit our current system.

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I look at whoever we pick like this.

If the player pans out, Banner will look like a Genius

If the flop, Lombardi will look like an idiot

Not to me. Banner is obviously running this show. Any flubs go on his ticket. Lombardi is just a yes man to Banner. That's why Banner hired him. Make no mistake. Everything goes through Banner.

Everyone looks at corner as a big need and of course it is. But I think we need another DE and an ILB just as badly. We need a real enforcer to play next to DQ(and hopefully take DQ's place soon). A Ray Lewis type that can blow up a running back, and fast enough to roam sideline to sideline. We also need another DE. We have Bryant on one side. We have nothing on the other but BIG questions. I had hoped we would trade some of our 4-3 centric players for picks that better fit our current system.

Good for you.. I was speaking of those that won't get it.. LIke that video thats on here somewhere.. A reporter asking fans in NYC waiting to get into the draft what they thought of Curvin Johnson and Buster Hyman.. LOL That's a classic

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http://www.thephinsider.com/2013/4/26/4272134/dolphins-trade-davone-bess-to-cleveland-browns

Supposedly a 'mid-round pick'.

If its higher than a 5th it's idiotic...

Well, we got that veteran receiver everyone wanted. He's not a big scorer but he consistently makes a lot of catches. If he fits our new O it's a decent move. In the modern NFL you can't have too many wide receivers...

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Well, we got that veteran receiver everyone wanted. He's not a big scorer but he consistently makes a lot of catches. If he fits our new O it's a decent move. In the modern NFL you can't have too many wide receivers...

Especially in the slot - Little and Gordon can have the outsides and now we have a legit slot receiver.

I'd rather have seen if Da'Rick Rogers was there then make the trade.

Idk why the Browns trade our very limited draft picks...for a wideout when there was plenty in FA that would cost zero in trade compensation

All we did was swap picks in two different rounds for Bess.

We didn't actually give up any picks.

It's an outstanding trade.

Good pick for Steelers... they seem to be having a good draft so far...

Wow, two runningbacks off the board, and neither one was Lacy.

Great trade for us. Perhaps a better move than drafting Mingo was.

Sounds like we didn't give up a pick for Bess but swapped picks in two rounds - one being the fourth...

That's right. And we signed him to an extension.

Gordon/Little/Bess/Nelson is an excellent set of wide receivers.

JC

Is there any pick that Mcshay doesn't think is a great player and a perfect fit?

Sorry to hijack

I am happy with the Bess pick up esp since we didnt lose any picks. swapping picks is not a huge deal. only 7 spots.

now the question is who is out.. Norwood and/or Cooper

Sorry didn't see the update on what we gave up

Jets take a $17M cap hit if they cut Sanchez.

Uggh, Arthur Brown to the Rats.....

Ravens quietly having a very good draft...

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Ravens quietly having a very good draft...

Unfortunately, they always do.

Is that 3 RB's before Eddy Lacy?

Yep - so far I think all three divsional opponents have had good drafts

JC

Like the Bess trade. Beats using the 4th rounder or 5th rounder on WR. we get a proven guy and don't have to draft any WR.

Big run on inside linebacker and secondary

I fear we might go QB with Nassib and Barkley still there....

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I fear we might go QB with Nassib and Barkley still there....

I'm saying DB or LB...

-Larry Warford (OG)
-Brian Winter (OG)
-Q. Patton (WR) i like him but not sure they'll go there with the Devon Bess acquisition
-Bacarri Rambo (S)
-Nico Johnson (ILB)
-Blidi Wreh-Wilson (CB)
-Logan Ryan (CB)
-Jordon Poyer (CB)
-Ryan Nassib (QB)

I don't like any of the tight ends in the 3rd....4th though seem like good value

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Is that 3 RB's before Eddy Lacy?

yup...kind of crazy...I wonder if Montee Ball will be like Kevin Smith...(way too many college carries...legs can't translate to NFL) Never thought Lacy would still be here...ontop of durability concerns I wonder if the NFL sees that maybe Bama backs are a tad overrated

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Is that 3 RB's before Eddy Lacy?

yup...kind of crazy...I wonder if Montee Ball will be like Kevin Smith...(way too many college carries...legs can't translate to NFL) Never thought Lacy would still be here...ontop of durability concerns I wonder if the NFL sees that maybe Bama backs are a tad overrated

No kiddin - wonder if he's still in the green room... he's going to go from being invited to the draft to being a 3rd round pick... love the kid's story, but wonder if he's questioning coming out this year.

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Is that 3 RB's before Eddy Lacy?

yup...kind of crazy...I wonder if Montee Ball will be like Kevin Smith...(way too many college carries...legs can't translate to NFL) Never thought Lacy would still be here...ontop of durability concerns I wonder if the NFL sees that maybe Bama backs are a tad overrated

No kiddin - wonder if he's still in the green room... he's going to go from being invited to the draft to being a 3rd round pick... love the kid's story, but wonder if he's questioning coming out this year.

forget which network i was watching but someone said something about his injuries

NFL Network has been talking about his injuries.

Kind of a sidenote ... Deion Sanders is the reason people started using the phrase "shut down corner"

I loved watching him play.

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Is that 3 RB's before Eddy Lacy?

yup...kind of crazy...I wonder if Montee Ball will be like Kevin Smith...(way too many college carries...legs can't translate to NFL) Never thought Lacy would still be here...ontop of durability concerns I wonder if the NFL sees that maybe Bama backs are a tad overrated

No kiddin - wonder if he's still in the green room... he's going to go from being invited to the draft to being a 3rd round pick... love the kid's story, but wonder if he's questioning coming out this year.

I forgot all about him in the green home (because he was there yesterday when they brought them all in) what a bad year to be invited to the green room...the NFL draft is looking like an NFL timeout I swear I don't recall this many commercials...ever

Pretty crazy that Damontre Moore is still sitting out there. So much production. So young. Crazy.

Through two rounds there have been 2 QBs. Crazy.

There goes Eddie Lacy to Green Bay.

There you go Lacy! Glad he went in the 2nd round... saw his story the other day and really liked the kid - hope he does well at GB...

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Pretty crazy that Damontre Moore is still sitting out there. So much production. So young. Crazy.

Rich get Richer...Seattle is stacked at RB

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Pretty crazy that Damontre Moore is still sitting out there. So much production. So young. Crazy.

No kiddin! Loved watching him play for the Ags... wouldn't mind taking him if he's there in third though I know DE is not an area we need right now but kid has a ton of upside IMO

If we took another OLB this board might just shut down.

My guy Jordan Poyer is still on the board

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If we took another OLB this board might just shut down.

lol just like the official browns board

Anyone else notice that Eddie Lacys pic resembled a fat girl smiling? Lol

Only guy that would make bigger waves would be Barkley.

Alabama RBs are overrated. Ingram, TRich, Lacy all benefitted from a superior OL that opened up huge holes for all 'Bama RBs.

Back to who we are going to take:

I think we will take the BPA over a position of need. That is why I like the new FO. They are doing it right.

The Lions just got a hell of a player in Warford.

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The Lions just got a hell of a player in Warford.

Yep, really wanted him. Though I wouldn't mind for us to get Alvin Bailey instead.

Don't be surprised if our next pick is Brian winters instead of CB. It's possible

I like Kennan Allen he's rather slow...but with Bess now a Brown I don't see that happening...I really like Logan Ryan or Poyer...really liked the Kentucky G but he's now gone

If we pick Brian Windhorst, I'll be really upset.

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Don't be surprised if our next pick is Brian winters instead of CB. It's possible

met his sister today..

I'd be okay with Winters, but I want Poyer.

I also really wouldn't be upset about Honey Badger, honestly.

1. Poyer
2. Mathieu
3. Winters

I'm okay with any of them.

Here we go!!!!!!!

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Here we go!!!!!!!

fricking commercials...

La Canfora is saying "no QB for the Browns".

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Here we go!!!!!!!

fricking commercials...

haha

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La Canfora is saying "no QB for the Browns".

Rumored to be CB Leon McFadden.

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La Canfora is saying "no QB for the Browns".

lord I hope not

5'9 corner?

Edit: ok - don't know a thing about him... time to learn...

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Rumored to be CB Leon McFadden.

4.5 40 and 5'9

and I know nothing about him...

I like McFadden.

He's right there in that group of CB's I liked in the 3rd.

Yep.

But, uh, what's with all the old guys saying "19"? So uh, they've been sleeping for the past 2 decades?

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5'9 corner?

Edit: ok - don't know a thing about him... time to learn...

I'm seeing 5' 10" more than 5' 9"...for what it's worth.

Damn, gettin' some love from Dilfer.

I like the pick, solid rap up tackler, and most team's went away from him.

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/1701015/leon-mcfadden

Wow a skrine sized CB...why not Logan Ryan...sighh I truely believe we need bigger secondary players not tiny ones

Really like this pick. Kid has great feet. Great break on the ball. Excellent value.

Little guy that can hit? I hope so.

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Wow a skrine sized CB...why not Logan Ryan...sighh I truely believe we need bigger secondary players not tiny ones

I think it's obvious our defensive philosphy is "Get to the ball, and create turnovers"

McFadden has a good break on the ball, could equal lots of picks on the back end of the pressure we're going to put on QB's.

Being out west here ive had the chance to see him and have heard good thing's

A midget? geeze.

interesting snippet from that article:

A former wide receiver recruit out of high school, McFadden moved over to the secondary as a freshman and worked his way into a starting role. He progressed each season and earned First Team All-Mountain West honors each of the past three seasons. With lofty expectations, McFadden had a productive senior season in 2012 with 15 passes defended and a career-best 3 interceptions, which he returned for 124 yards (41.3 average) and a pair of scores.

McFadden finishes his career as one of the most decorated defensive players at San Diego State. He leaves the Aztecs with 47 career passes defended and 8 interceptions, starting 45 games over his career. The son of a nine-year MLB veteran, McFadden is a talented all-around athlete with the fluid skill-set and productive resume to make an impact at the next level

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Wow a skrine sized CB...why not Logan Ryan...sighh I truely believe we need bigger secondary players not tiny ones

Size is overrated if you can't get to the ball. I'll take speed.

Analysis

Strengths: Fluid feet, hips and joints to quickly change directions and stick with receivers up and down the field. Natural speed to cover vertical routes and recover after false steps. Aggressive with the ball in the air and won?t concede anything thrown his way. Natural instincts with a knack for always knowing where the ball is located. Plays the position with a fearless demeanor to bait throws and takes chances in coverage. Good chase skills and plays fast in pursuit, only knowing one speed. Solidly-built and has better functional strength than expected. Very strong resume with excellent experience and production. Already has strong practice habits and a pro demeanor.

Weaknesses: Lacks ideal height and length and doesn?t have much growth potential. Needs to be more consistent as a tackler to hit through the ballcarrier and wrap. Can be out-muscled by bigger receivers and his lack of size will show at times. Inconsistent in press coverage and looks more natural in off-man or in space.

Link Again

Great reasoning.

Maybe Phil Taylor can play cb in your defense.

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I truely believe we need bigger secondary players not tiny ones

Agreed.

We signed that Barnes guy to a 1 year deal. He's 6'1" maybe he surprises us.

If Barkley is still there at #111, should we take him?

All about schemes, guys.

McFadden is a better fit for what we're trying to do than a bigger guy like BWW.

I really like this pick. Some of you are bad-mouthing every move we make. So be it.

However, I think this kid fits our defense very well. He is going to be aggressive. He has great feet. Good closing speed. He concedes nothing. He will go after the ball.

I'm telling you-------w/all the pressure that I expect our front seven to get on the qb, this guy will be a productive player.

Great freaking pick!!!

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I'm telling you-------w/all the pressure that I expect our front seven to get on the qb, this guy will be a productive player.

Great freaking pick!!!

sounds good to me.. I know nothing about the guy

Tampa Bay takes Mike Glennon with Matt Barkley and Ryan Nassib still on the board.

Hmmm

From what I'm reading, he was a better fit to what Horton wants to run. And his combine height was noted at 5' 10"

NFL Comparison
Brent Grimes

Bottom Line
McFaddens a tenacious three-time All-Mountain West selection possessing the strength, quickness, attitude, and ball skills required of NFL starters, even if his size is not ideal to handle the physicality of veteran wideouts. Many shorter corners who play with similar strength and temperament have succeeded at the next level, which will help him nail down top-75 grades from scouts.

NFL.com Bio

Link

Wow! Glennon?? Barkley continues to fall...

I don't know much about him, he could be a steal for I know. I'd still like 1 guy with size to matchup with all of the tight ends, and its the AFC North. But Hey, If McFadden can play, there's room for him in this secondary.

I' hate to project 3rd rounders to start, but Does Anyone think he can come in and start? Be the #2 we do not have on the roster right now?

It's just my opinion. Not sure if I am right. He is one of the guys I was looking at earlier.

I like his moxie. Love his feet. He will attack WRs. Sometimes---he's too confident. He'll probably get burned some.

I only watched a little tape on him. I could be wrong, but it was nice to see us pick a guy I was hoping for, which is unusual. LOL

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Wow! Glennon?? Barkley continues to fall...

I think the lack of QB's is more about teams not needing a highly drafted QB than the fact that these guys can't play.

Even teams you think might draft a QB, are only a couple years into their experiements with other 1st round QB's (JAX and TEN for example)

I just find it hard to believe that teams really have Barkley rated as a 3rd/4th round guy ... I mean, come on, teams took Christian Ponder, Blaine Gabbert, and Jake Locker in the first round. They took Jimmy Clausen in the early 2nd.

I find it hard to believe teams had those guys graded higher than Barkley, just not a lot of need for QB's right now.

Thanks Vers. Are you concerned with his size at all? I think he's the same height as Sheldon Brown, but didn't know if it seemed like a red flag to you.

Well, hopefully he won't be covering too many TEs. Was that a typo or brain fart?

I do think he will start. And when we go to nickel and dime coverages, I think he will move inside and cover the slot receiver. I am telling you this.........there is not much difference between this guy and Trufant, except that he tackles better.

I am getting really excited about the talented players we're going to have on the roster this year. Definitely the most talented group we've had since the return. Hopefully it translates into Ws!

Minnifield was not that tall and did just fine.

I remember McFadden being listed as a sleeper in several mocks. Then he seemed to drop....

Fingers crossed....

I guess it can be a concern, but I am not one of those guys who cared much about height. Frank Minnifield was a great corner and he was in reality--less than 5'9". Ever talk to Hanford? He isn't tall.

Different era? True.

I don't know, man. Maybe I am wrong. I just watched some tape on the guy and read all I could. He was one of the guys on my list and he kept moving up. I really like him, but again, I never scouted him personally and I could be dead wrong.

We'll see.

I know nothing about him. I hope you're right, bro!

Frank had to stretch to reach 5"8 but man oh man could he jump.

and yes I have played golf with Hanford twice before and talked to him on several occasions He can't be more than 5"11

Ive seen him play against UNLV, sure not a great team but he had a nose for ball,

D. Moore finally picked... goes to the Giants... could be a great place for him... kid is young but a lot of upside IMO

One thing you guys will notice about him after he gets here is that he has great hands. He breaks quickly on the ball and reaches out and simply snags the ball.

I am not saying having great hands make you a good corner. I simply neglected to mention it earlier.

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Well, hopefully he won't be covering too many TEs. Was that a typo or brain fart?

True probably not too many. But QBs find a way to get these hybrid tight ends on the nickel corner. They go in the slot, even outside. And our OLBs look to need lots of help in coverage.

Just picturing him and Skrine together, think they'll see some mismatches with TEs. But, not all teams have that luxury at tight end. And honestly, Skrine is my concern. Guess this could all go in the McFadden thread.

Okay. Gotcha.

Considering a huge majority of our secondary is 5'9-5'10...I just don't know...with taller wideouts and freakish TEs in...I really don't see us striking fear in the red zone for those jump balls...I hope I'm wrong...just thought we could really use a corner at 6'0+ and a safety the same...I saw often last year our height and length were the reasons why opposing wideouts secured passes on us (good coverage by us right on the wide reciever...just no length to jar the ball out of grasp)

I hate to once again sound like I am dissing you guys, but........

---I keep hearing about the size differential and how WRs will catch the ball over the top of us.

Okay, but:

---The problem w/taller cbs is that they don't run as well as smaller guys. Their hips are stiffer. They don't back pedal as well. They can't change direction as quickly. So, is it worse that the QB has to throw over the top of a smaller qb or hit a wide-open WR?

Sorry man, but I think this cat can play!!!

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Great reasoning.

Maybe Phil Taylor can play cb in your defense.

Well ...... if he could get a good jam, it would be all over.

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Considering a huge majority of our secondary is 5'9-5'10...I just don't know...with taller wideouts and freakish TEs in...I really don't see us striking fear in the red zone for those jump balls...I hope I'm wrong...just thought we could really use a corner at 6'0+ and a safety the same...I saw often last year our height and length were the reasons why opposing wideouts secured passes on us (good coverage by us right on the wide reciever...just no length to jar the ball out of grasp)

Those are all valid concerns but, how good is a 6' 2" corner when the QB has all day to throw? I think that's the direction our team is moving (STRONG Front-7 and adequate secondary).

Just to spread some knowledge, 3 of the 6 Pro Bowl corners from last year were 6' or shorter:

C.Bailey (6')
Johnathan Joseph (5' 11")
Tim Jennings (5' 8")

If Leon is a legit 5' 10", I don't see how that would impact him being great or not. if he has the speed, skills and knowledge, he'll do fine.

San Francisco might go 19-0.

I'm dead serious. They are absolutely LOADED with talent.

I really like what this front office has done so far this off-season ..... from free agency through the draft, and the trade for Bess.

I think that we're closing on other teams in our division. We're probably not going to win the division, but I can see us winning one more game in the division, and going .500 against the Bengals, Ravens, and Steelers.

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I really like what this front office has done so far this off-season ..... from free agency through the draft, and the trade for Bess.

I think that we're closing on other teams in our division. We're probably not going to win the division, but I can see us winning one more game in the division, and going .500 against the Bengals, Ravens, and Steelers.

I'm just glad these guys understood what our needs were and aggressively attacked them. They want to build this defense.

Bess was an absolutely brilliant trade that I'm still not sure how they managed to pull that off. I am with you in that I am pleasantly surprised in how well the off season has gone. I know we are not going to the playoffs next year, but we continued to add to our core.

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Considering a huge majority of our secondary is 5'9-5'10...I just don't know...with taller wideouts and freakish TEs in...I really don't see us striking fear in the red zone for those jump balls...I hope I'm wrong...just thought we could really use a corner at 6'0+ and a safety the same...I saw often last year our height and length were the reasons why opposing wideouts secured passes on us (good coverage by us right on the wide reciever...just no length to jar the ball out of grasp)

Those are all valid concerns but, how good is a 6' 2" corner when the QB has all day to throw? I think that's the direction our team is moving (STRONG Front-7 and adequate secondary)

Just to spread some knowledge, 3 of the 6 Pro Bowl corners from last year were 6' or shorter:

C.Bailey (6')
Johnathan Joseph (5' 11")
Tim Jennings (5' 8")

If Leon is a legit 5' 10", I don't see how that would impact him being great or not. if he has the speed, skills and knowledge, he'll do fine.

Good Point(s) perhaps I'm just freaking out...but I feel a little better today...thanks for the info Punch

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I hate to once again sound like I am dissing you guys, but........

---I keep hearing about the size differential and how WRs will catch the ball over the top of us.

Okay, but:

---The problem w/taller cbs is that they don't run as well as smaller guys. Their hips are stiffer. They don't back pedal as well. They can't change direction as quickly. So, is it worse that the QB has to throw over the top of a smaller qb or hit a wide-open WR?

Sorry man, but I think this cat can play!!!

Exactly!!

Also, take at look at the first receiver taken in this draft Tavon Austin. What tall CB is covering these type of receivers? It appears the league is starting to swinging toward smaller and faster receivers.

Creating pressure reduces the probability throwing an accurate pass, and pressure gives a QB less time checking open receivers. Having quicker DB's creates an illusion a receiver is covered.

People need to park their thoughts on how Jauron ran the defense last year and think speed.

I think the protest about his size is not that a 5'10" corner can't play, but that that is our whole CB corps. I think Horton is likely to get Bademosi in the mix at corner because he's a hitter.

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I think the protest about his size is not that a 5'10" corner can't play, but that that is our whole CB corps. I think Horton is likely to get Bademosi in the mix at corner because he's a hitter.

Not trying to be condescending here.

What did Horton say in the very beginning? In the secondary, he liked little guys who can hit

Right, little men that will hit. I took that to mean defensive backs who are physical, no?

I'm not assuming Bademosi is a starter, but without him our DBs are ripe for a mismatch exploitation. I think Bademosi could be a big WR cover specialist tomitigate that. That's all I'm saying.

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San Francisco might go 19-0.

I'm dead serious. They are absolutely LOADED with talent.

If it finally gets those old Dolphins to fade away, I am all for it