Your 2013 Cleveland Browns NFL Draft

First off, I would like to commend the Browns for a certain two players that they drafted this week. These two players, who I think were good picks, especially for where they were taken, are 'Cornerback Leon McFadden Jr, SDST' and 'Safety Jamoris Slaughter, ND' and despite these picks not being sexy picks, (Which I know Is what alot of people wanted) I still think these players are pretty solid.

Both Slaughter and McFadden Jr are very agressive players, and have high ceilings, both from a Athletic, and Skill perspective. Both players are a perfect fit for the Browns, and would be perfect compliments alongside Joe Haden, and my boy TJ Ward. I truly believe that our FO scored big with these two players, and I'd be surprised If they both weren't starting by Week 4.

Another player who I think stands out well Is 'OT/OG Garrett Gilkey, Chadron ST'. The kid has a great work ethic and has the attitude of a great player. Again, may not be a sexy pick that everyone wanted, but he Is definitely a talent. And correct me If I'm wrong, but wasn't Gilkey projected to go In the 5th or 4th round? definitely a steal since the Browns picked him up In the 7th, but besides all that, I definitely think that Gilkey has what It takes to be a starter for the Browns. I think he would be a great Offensive Guard.

As far as 'OLB/DE Barkevious Mingo, LSU' goes, like I said before, really wasn't what I was expecting at #6, would have thought the Browns would have traded down before picking Mingo, but It's not a bad pick. Mingo undoubtingly has what It takes to be a star, and Is quite a freak himself. He ran a 4.5 at the Combine, and can get to the QB quick, so I'm interested to see what he can bring to the table. He's around 6'4, 242 lbs, so QB's will have to be cautious when throwing over him. When It's all said and done, he'll probably be around 250 lbs at the season opener, which Is good for a 6'4 Linebacker, I truly think that Mingo has serious potential.

The only pick that I'm not to high on, (but I'm sure he Is) Is 'DE Armonty Bryant, ECO' I mean sure, Bryant Is a freak athleticly, and since he's a big boy, It makes It even better. I'm also pretty sure that he can hit harder then Hurricane Katrina, so I mean, as long as Bryant cleans up his Marijuana act, and gets his head straight, then I think this pick Is okay.

So there you go, my two cents on the Cleveland Browns 2013 Draft Class. My complete grade would probably be a solid B, but of course, we'll have to wait for everything to pan out, before even giving this draft an appropriate grade.

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Very good job by our new FO, We added 2 excellent Wr's counting Gordan, we added extra picks in 2014 and we got a great pass rusher a pretty decent CB and a G that was projected much higher than where we drafted him ... job well done

I don't know how much value we really got from trading away the round 4 and round 5 picks away for the round 3 and round 4 picks.

We were picking high in the 4th this year but traded away to a team that will probably be a playoff contender (and an AFCN rival). So, we went from a Top 4th rounder to a likely bottom quarter of the 3rd round next year.

The same goes for the 5th rounder we traded away to Indy, another possible playoff contender next year. They should be drafting in the bottom half and possibly in the bottom quarter of the 4th.

We should have demanded more from Putzburgh.

You obviously forget the draft where our top pick was Beau Bell I believe he was our first pick, a fourth rounder.

But seriously,if I was the owner of this site I would ban you for life for that post. I would prabably be wrong in doing so but I would surely do it.

JMO, but I think Pittsburgh is in a downward trend and that 3rd rd pick could be in the middle of the round. Plus they are one hit on Roethlisberger from having a disastrous year, not that I hope it happens, which would make it a high 3rd.

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Also an F, not even a D-

Here are the positives.
Barkevious Mingo, Well if you draft 6 you should get a player who contributes to the team, and they did, but if you want a quarterback, they passed on all 9+ drafted when they picked Mingo at 6, so, you can't claim you were waiting on Nassib and got overjumped by the Giants, they just choked.

2nd most Positive, Davonne Bess, Well it has to be an F grade if the next best thing to a 1st rounder is the fact you traded for a 27yr old player already in the league and didn't have to give up a whole lot. That means you didn't find anyone else in the 254+ to 500 players you could have drafted.

3rd positive, Leon McFadden fills a need, but I don't know if he will be able to play, and hopefully, hopefully, he won't get his backside handed to him at the NFL level.

4th positive, Out of everyone else they drafted, maybe one of them will work out, and getting one of them to last will be better than nothing, better than waiting on next year for an intangible pick.

5th positive, Given that I consider this the worst draft in the last 10 years, I have to look back on the good they did when the Overpaid by the Millions for 3 free agents on the defensive side of the ball. The players should be able to play,and make an impact, even if it is the wrong philosophy to add overpaid free agents.

6th positive, They did not trade Sheard away, they still Have Jabaal Sheard on the team and I'd expect him to keep putting pressure on opponents.

7th positive, The fact that they didn't take anyone with the middle round picks that they traded for next years picks will clear up space for playing time and roster spots for hopeful free agent signings other than the 3 big defenders, including Tight ends Barnridge and Davis, and the wide receiver from Buffalo.

Overall, F, You just can't trade away 2 of only 7 picks, and 2 of only 4 picks in the top 165 overall.
Go Browns !

Why do you list them as positives and then bash everything? I don't understand are you saying drafting Mingo caused us to pass on 9 QBs? Its pretty obvious we had no plans on taking a QB in this draft.

JC

If you look at Bess, Gordon and the future picks, there's already some positives about this draft. Now, its up to Mingo and McFadden. We'll have to wait and see.

we had a really young roster to begin with, so there wasn't much need for another crop of youngsters this year. It would be different if we were loaded with 32 year olds. Have to see who steps up this year (Lava, Cameron, Robertson, etc) and use those extra picks next year to solidify this thing.

Kind of hard to be patient, but its not like a 4th or 5th round rookie was going to be "the answer" anyhow. We've got plenty of late round picks just hitting the make/break stage.

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Why do you list them as positives and then bash everything?

Some on here just trash everything because that's the only way they can get attention.

Value isn't always seen immediatly. I think we will see the value next year.

Kind of like buying a stock.

I'm ok with the draft, 2 needs were filled and 2 additional picks were added for next year.

I think people railing on them for not taking that rumored St. Louis trade are smoking crack. You never assume your guy will be there later. They liked Mingo a lot. The pick came in early, they clearly were set on getting him.

How would it have looked if they liked EJ Manuel and decided to screw around and try and trade back and add a second round pick to take him? Egg on the face. You can never assume that the rankings and big boards that you see are the same as these teams'.

I like Mingo a lot. I watched a ton of LSU. I've heard a lot of people saying he's the next Kam Wimbley. Mingo is a ton faster. He gets off the line quick. He's relentless. As far as his weight, Jason Taylor played at pretty much the same size in the NFL that Mingo played at in college. Don't write him off for his weight. Let's see if he can make plays and disrupt offenses. With his speed, Ray Horton has a few different options for him.

I'm not going to lie, I know nothing about Leon McFadden. I'm glad we added a corner, but I really wonder if this guy is starting material or just depth.

I have no problem with trading with Pittsburgh. If you're worried about Shamarko Thomas "haunting you for years" please stop watching football. The only way that logic works is if this pick had been in the first round and had it been for a QB, then maybe I'll sit with the worriers. Not for a safety drafted in round 4. Child please.

I don't know anything about Armonty Bryant, but I watched some highlight plays, and seeing how big and strong he is, my guess is the Browns see this as nothing or maybe by chance he's the next James Harrison.

I love what I have read about Garrett Gilkey.

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JMO, but I think Pittsburgh is in a downward trend and that 3rd rd pick could be in the middle of the round. Plus they are one hit on Roethlisberger from having a disastrous year, not that I hope it happens, which would make it a high 3rd.

I think that they're also on the downturn but still a playoff contender next year.

I think the Bengals are making tsunami-sized waves in the division. They're going to be perennial leaders in the division in the future.

BallsNoMore is also on the downturn although with the disintegration of their defense, they've been forced to get young talent there and they've gotten it. There are still some holes for the Ravens to fill there, but they're starting the process and it won't take them too long to rebuild it. Ozzie is a very good GM. Something that the Browns haven't really had since our return in 1999.

I honestly beleive that with our new and much improved coaching staff (on paper anyway) and all the new players we brought in we could be an 8 or 9 win team and have at least an outside shot at the playoffs. Alot will depend on what Chud and Norv Turner can do with Weeden.

I think Banner and Lombardi and company did an excellent job with acquiring Bess for next to nothing, and acquiring the additional 2014 draft picks. I feel they got great value for what they gave up. They addressed the pieces we needed to for the most part (seeing lack of QB class) - corner, lb and safety and offensive linemen (I guess the guy we picked up can play both guard and tackle) - so now the gaping holes are a little close up, but still need to upgrade AND add depth at many spots.

All and all I am satisfied.

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I think Banner and Lombardi and company did an excellent job with acquiring Bess for next to nothing, and acquiring the additional 2014 draft picks. I feel they got great value for what they gave up. They addressed the pieces we needed to for the most part (seeing lack of QB class) - corner, lb and safety and offensive linemen (I guess the guy we picked up can play both guard and tackle) - so now the gaping holes are a little close up, but still need to upgrade AND add depth at many spots.

All and all I am satisfied.

Actually it was a 3rd and a 4th.

I know I already had corrected it, just wording my thoughts wrongly.

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Also an F, not even a D-

Here are the positives.
Barkevious Mingo, Well if you draft 6 you should get a player who contributes to the team, and they did, but if you want a quarterback, they passed on all 9+ drafted when they picked Mingo at 6, so, you can't claim you were waiting on Nassib and got overjumped by the Giants, they just choked.

2nd most Positive, Davonne Bess, Well it has to be an F grade if the next best thing to a 1st rounder is the fact you traded for a 27yr old player already in the league and didn't have to give up a whole lot. That means you didn't find anyone else in the 254+ to 500 players you could have drafted.

3rd positive, Leon McFadden fills a need, but I don't know if he will be able to play, and hopefully, hopefully, he won't get his backside handed to him at the NFL level.

4th positive, Out of everyone else they drafted, maybe one of them will work out, and getting one of them to last will be better than nothing, better than waiting on next year for an intangible pick.

5th positive, Given that I consider this the worst draft in the last 10 years, I have to look back on the good they did when the Overpaid by the Millions for 3 free agents on the defensive side of the ball. The players should be able to play,and make an impact, even if it is the wrong philosophy to add overpaid free agents.

6th positive, They did not trade Sheard away, they still Have Jabaal Sheard on the team and I'd expect him to keep putting pressure on opponents.

7th positive, The fact that they didn't take anyone with the middle round picks that they traded for next years picks will clear up space for playing time and roster spots for hopeful free agent signings other than the 3 big defenders, including Tight ends Barnridge and Davis, and the wide receiver from Buffalo.

Overall, F, You just can't trade away 2 of only 7 picks, and 2 of only 4 picks in the top 165 overall.
Go Browns !

I happen to really like this draft, the Browns addressed came away with five players and addressed the most important needs on this team:

They addressed the pass rush, they addressed CB, they addressed FS and G.

They added a proven solid, productive possession WR (Bess) by swapping draft picks then used those same picks to trade for better picks next year. Which was absolutely brilliant IMO!

Nearly every FA pickup in the NFL is over payed, so they only added FA in areas of great need.

Browns are making a statement in this division by adding FA Kruger and the drafting of Mingo while keeping Sheard. The statement is that the defense is coming after your QB from both sides, we will be in your QBs face all game long.

This DL is stacked with solid players, they can rotate in and out and stay fresh all game long with little to no drop off in talent.

I give this draft a grade of an A because they addressed all the greatest needs, added a go to WR on 3rd downs (Bess) while strengthening the draft next year.

This was smart drafting from start to finish.

.

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1 (6) - Barkevious Mingo, DE/OLB, LSU
2 (supp.) - Josh Gordon, WR, Baylor
3 (68) - Leon McFadden, CB, San Diego St.
6 (175) - Jamoris Slaughter, S, Notre Dame
7 (217) - Armonty Bryant, DE/OLB, East Central (OK)
7 (227) Garrett Gilkey, OT/OG, Chadron State

Additional acquisitions:

Davone Bess, WR
2014 3rd round pick (PIT)
2014 4th round pick (IND)

Discuss.

Taken as a whole, bringing in Bess, getting the '14 picks, not over drafting any prospects, I consider it a success. Add Gordon to the haul and it's one of the best team drafts of 2013.

I really don't grade drafts but I'll make a few comments...

- I love the Mingo pick as it pertains to our style of defense. I wanted him as our first pick.

- Don't know much on McFadden but am concerned about his size as he's thrown into a group of other small CBs, especially going against big receivers in the AFC North. If he can become our long term starter as the legit #2CB, it's a huge win. If he becomes solid depth and we find someone else higher in another draft, I'll be ok with that too.

- I'm fine with trading 2013 picks for future picks a round earlier in 2014 but it's a wait-n-see. I don't like that we handed a rival a player they really wanted.

- The back end of the draft is a crap shoot. If we find a guy, it's a steal. It not, nothing lost. However, we took two Division II prayers (one slanging to teammates of one team and transferred off another for academic issues) and safety coming off an Achilles injury.

This FO's first draft will live and die by Mingo and McFadden, IMO. Two picks out of five. That's a lot to lean on at this point. Who knows if we'll even use the 2014 picks we acquired to draft players.

jc

I sure hope the Honey Badger isn't All Pro in his first year.

I definately agree with your post Franklin.

I started to creat a separate thread to ask the board what they might have selected had the front office done the exact opposite in this years draft and opted not to and just add my 2 cents worth here.

Can anyone imagine how badly this board would have "blown up" if the front office did the opossite in this years draft, with regard to the swapped picks? There would be effigies burning in the streets if we had given up our third next year for the Steeler's fourth this year and our fourth next year for the Colt's fifth this year, just to fill holes that we "imagine" are there based off of media hype and the so called experts on this, or any other, board. People would be committing cyber suicide for pages.

Some times we need to be a little less "FANatical" about what we don't know. I, for one, am pretty satisfied with the moves that are this years draft.

As I see it:

1- Bark - a pass rushing inside Linebacker we have needed since '99

2- Josh Gordon - a Wide Receiver with1 year of NFL, experience that showed huge potential of becoming a true #1 WR, again something we have not had on the team since the return.

3. Leon McFadden - Good Value CB at a need position. My take is that Brian Sipe gave the Scouts and Coaches significantly more inside info on him than anyone else would have just because of his Cleveland ties.

4- A 2014 3rd round pick - I cannot wait to hear the screams of pain coming from Pittsburg next year when we take the BPA for a 3/4 Defense out from under thier noses.

5a- A 2014 4th round pick - with how poor this draft class is, I am all for developing what we already have so we can have a better understanding about our real needs for the team when we draft next year.

5b- Davon Bess - A sure handed Slot Receiver, that we did not have, with a proven 4 year NFL history. This is such a win/win for the Browns I can't wait to have him helping the our younger receivers with thier game.

6- Jamoris Slaughter - See below
7a- Armonty Bryant - See below
7b- Garrett Gilkey - What I see from the 6-7b picks are exactly what we usually expect to see, potential for development players that may add depth to thier position that the front office does not expect to slip into free agency.

Overall a solid draft to begin the new front offices transition.

Granted I'm not doing the

, but neither am I doing the

, like I have during previous drafts.

So, as a FAN I'm going to be

with the draft and

for the best from the team we have assembled. Definately looking forward to seeing the team at Training Camp in July.

Go Browns

Ok, back to your regularly scheduled

j/c

just some notes.

Mingo stats...hope you stat guys realize he was asked to play a Box Containment for most games. I'm going to take a guess n state NO WAY IN HECK he will be doing so in our New D

McFadden...love his cover skills...Size - same height btw as Sheldon Brown. Height wasn't his problem at all throughout his career. Aging legs were his problem.

Vers...our late round pick Bryant was the kid arrested

but I think he has a lot of talent.
http://www.youtube.com/v/nPxEfFmRESg

Only Anger on the traded picks we made in 4th n 5th rounds were that our pick disappeared n I look back to Steelers n Indy later picks for the move up n I still saw them there...I'm Yelling at the TV SHUT YOUR MOUTHS n LET US KNOW WHAT JUST HAPPENED. Around a round later they explained the 2014 picks we got. I was like WOW...only mad at the Talking Heads!

I know a Homer but I've implied it in the past n did not push it...but Gipson is going to be a Surprise Find for our FS starter!

Grading a draft??? I don't understand HOW...who knows who is going to be good...Grading our guys against who - The BOZO's without a JOB in the NLF

Grades are phony n mostly are reflective of HOW MANY PROSPECTS you pick. Can only assume with five picks made I would be shocked if anyone gives us a grade above C.

Honey Badger...Zona came right out n stated he will be playing FS not CB.

JMHO as always

J/C

I have mixed feelings with this draft. I love the trade for future picks. Though, I wish had a warm fuzzy about the secondary coming out of this draft. I thought we'd be getting a first round CB for sure. In the past 3 years, I probably feel less comfortable with this draft than the last in regards to the first 3 selections. Gordon is a shining spot in this draft.

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j/c

just some notes.

Mingo stats...hope you stat guys realize he was asked to play a Box Containment for most games. I'm going to take a guess n state NO WAY IN HECK he will be doing so in our New D

This reminded me of a point I had rumbling around in my head. Although this scheme at LSU resulted in plays where Mingo either didn't make the play himself or at times got taken out of the play by bigger linemen, he was often successful in playing his responsibility on those plays. AND he played routinely right on the D line at times on the interior. He held up physically in those circumstances.

Here is a link with good information about current cap space. There are going to be more cuts. I think we find our starting CB there.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/04/23/team-by-team-cap-numbers-from-nfls-calculations/

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- Don't know much on McFadden but am concerned about his size

I concern myself less with height than with vertical leap...

I know I saw him moving Left n Right always keeping n eye on his containment but not committing staying discipline...some dawgs here I think are translating that to him not handling blocks well. I actually thought he handled blocks well especially on some double teams where he just put his head in like a baby coming out of the womb n squirting through the Double Team!

Definitely needs to get stronger...expect to see him around 260 in 2 years.
I was not pleased with his Tackling of RBs...my only negative.

First Step is amazing.

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- Don't know much on McFadden but am concerned about his size

I concern myself less with height than with vertical leap...

Sure, but if the WR is 4-5 inches taller, that's gonna have to be some pretty good vertical leap, cause wide receivers can jump too. And when I say size, I'm just not referring to getting to the ball when it's in the air. I'm also referring to going against big, stronger WRs at the line. Specifically, if he loses the physical battle near the line and during the route. Can he recover and make plays? Again, I don't know.

Instincts and speed will be equally important, which apparently he has.

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I honestly beleive that with our new and much improved coaching staff (on paper anyway) and all the new players we brought in we could be an 8 or 9 win team and have at least an outside shot at the playoffs. Alot will depend on what Chud and Norv Turner can do with Weeden.

I agree with this. I think that the new coaching staff should be worth at least 2 wins, just from preparation and clock management. We should be at 7 wins on that alone. The question becomes whether our opponents have added better production players than we have. It's possible that they did, but we should still improve by at least 2 wins just through improved coaching.

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Value isn't always seen immediatly. I think we will see the value next year.

Kind of like buying a stock.

I wouldn't recommend buying stocks. Not in today's economic climate.

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jc

I sure hope the Honey Badger isn't All Pro in his first year.

Only in the prison league.

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- Don't know much on McFadden but am concerned about his size

I concern myself less with height than with vertical leap...

I agree. And, if these guys are real corners, you can strip a receiver of a reception. A lost art, but you can be 4'8" and strip a 6'8" receiver if you practice the method.

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Here is a link with good information about current cap space. There are going to be more cuts. I think we find our starting CB there.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/04/23/team-by-team-cap-numbers-from-nfls-calculations/

and trades. I think that's what is going to happen with those 3rd and 4th round draft picks are going to go. jmo.

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We stole Bess and that has to count.

Absolutely, I will go as far as saying it saved the entire draft and they accomplished something I could hardly see them accomplish before the draft. I thought we would add more young players to the youngest roster in the league. Instead, we "punted" two picks into next draft and devalued another 3rd day pick into a veteran starter. Banner created space for the young players he inherited to further develop AND added a veteran. That's just smart.
Many have not realized yet how smart it was to turn half the price for Bess (4th round swap) into a wash (punt pick into 2013), as we would have gotten the same deal for pick 104 as we did for pick 111

I LOVE the Bess trade, it's an A+ and that's not because of the low price we paid. I would have given it an A for our 4th too. It works on pretty much every level for me. Need for a veteran in a very young group of WRs? Check. Need for a sure-handed safety walve for Weeden? Check. Need for a pure slot-WR who isn't afraid going over the middle? Check. Need for adding returning help? Check

Bess will be an immediate producer out of that draft and that balances out the Mingo pick, who will probably need his rookie season to get acclimated to the NFL. He needs to get stronger, he needs to finish of tackles, he needs to refine his technique, he needs to learn better hand usage....all that while learning to play OLB. That's a lot of learning and rawness for a top 10 pick from the SEC who has played under NFL-like coaches at LSU. Still think they over-valued Mingo and implemented too much of that projection as a given instead of devalauting his worth since it's all still "virtual". Really, the difference between him and Armonty Bryant is pretty much character and motor only. They're both big time projects as players. I'm not saying Mingo is a 3rd day prospect, as both character and motor have their worth and help elevate the floor projection, but simply stating what I see on tape with Mingo.

McFadden is a high-floor, low-ceiling guy and he should be ready by week one to start. I have my concerns but I think he's a clear upgrade over Skrine and Owens (not that hard though).

The 3rd day guys I have to take a closer look at, but all 3 have a shot to make the team as there are open spots at their positions. All three are high ceiling, low floor gambles with either character/medical or small school red flags (or a combination). Bascially taking a huge swing on a 0-2 pitch instead of going for contact...why not, I guess. If one of them turns into a homer or even double, it was worth it

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Can anyone imagine how badly this board would have "blown up" if the front office did the opossite in this years draft, with regard to the swapped picks? There would be effigies burning in the streets if we had given up our third next year for the Steeler's fourth this year and our fourth next year for the Colt's fifth this year, just to fill holes that we "imagine" are there based off of media hype and the so called experts on this, or any other, board. People would be committing cyber suicide for pages.

Yup.

Some Browns fans will find a way to turn everything into a negative.

I was listening to talk radio yesterday, because Cleveland talk radio before, during, and after the draft might be the best form of entertainment. The guy on the line said that the Browns were throwing away the season, and that Mike Lombardi didn't respect what we had on the roster. I was befuddled. If he didn't like what we had, wouldn't he have drafted more guys?

I really think he doesn't quite know what we have. Yes, he said publicly he hated the pick of Weeden last year. The rest of this roster though? How do we know how good any of these players really are, especially on offense? They were put into a horrible scheme, an outdated scheme. Do we really know how good Greg Little is? I don't. I see some qualities, but I want to know more. How about Mitchell Schwartz? We all like the pick, we like some of the things we see, but Pat refused to run the ball at appropriate times last year. It's tough to gauge how good some of our players are because of the horrible position they were put in.

I won't rail on the defense like I did with Pat/Mike's offense, but it's going to be a complete flip flop. I'm not going to say Jauron's defense wasn't a bad defense, I just don't think he quite had the personnel for it. He needed at least one primo top tier pass rush, and obviously a better corner.

In Horton's defense, he just needs Haden to be on the field, and another corner to be starting caliber. You don't need Revis out there. The front 7 on paper looks good.

But yeah, fans will find a way to rail on anything. We take Mingo and people whine about Milliner. We don't trade with St. Louis and we're horrible. We do trade with Pittsburgh and it's the worst thing ever. I think some fans are too obsessed with draft picks. How would you feel if Mingo turns out to be a hall of famer, but you passed on him so some other player you picked in round 1 turned out to be ok, and you got a second pick out of it for another average guy. I said it a million times, if they like a guy, PICK HIM.

Can we at least see how things work out before we bury these players and front office guys? Mike Lombardi wasn't my first choice either, but I'm at least going to give him a fair shot, not put him back into unemployment before the team has even played a game.

I heard people on the radio whining simply because we didn't take enough players. It didn't matter whether or not we had players to fill the holes we have ..... it just mattered that we didn't add bodies.

Frankly I expect next year's draft to be better than this year's, and I expect a "slot to slot" draft pick to be a better value next year than this year. This draft was historically weak. I could be wrong, but I cannot imagine having another really weak draft next year. Usually there is a rebound to a strong draft. We're well situated to take advantage if this is the case.

I heard people on the radio whining about the kid the Steelers took and how he would have been "perfect" for the Browns. Well, except that he's a SS, and we need a FS ..... and that he's already had numerous concussions from leading with his head into tackles. Other than that he would have been perfect for us.

People complain that we never give our players the chance to develop ..... and that is clearly the plan here, especially on offense. You can't develop players by replacing them with similar (or worse) players. Many people were worried that the new brain trust would come in and clean house of the young base we have, and now they seem disappointed that we didn't.

I guess I'm just confused.

Maybe a lot of browns fans who remain do so because they like being freely able to *whine* and moan about something. Maybe if we start becoming a serious playoff contender a lot of the current fans will disappear, or at least their complaining will start to look silly. I'm sure plenty of people complain about the Patriots drafting.

As a side note about the Patriots.. Their drafting really isn't that impressive at all. I want to harp on about this or make it my sig..but they win because they have Tom Brady. We can write off this season if Weeden doesn't become elite because that is 90% of the game now adays. Mingo vs. Milliner is significantly less important than Weeden vs. Manziel.

When you have the QB in place it makes everything, and I mean everything, easier. Receivers become better. The OL becomes better. Even the defense becomes better. It's so hard to win in the NFL without the QB. Look at the Niners. They had to have the best running game, and the best defense in order to win in their first year under Harbaugh. (#1 in both areas, IIRC) That's kind of what it takes to win without the right QB.

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When you have the QB in place it makes everything, and I mean everything, easier. Receivers become better. The OL becomes better. Even the defense becomes better. It's so hard to win in the NFL without the QB. Look at the Niners. They had to have the best running game, and the best defense in order to win in their first year under Harbaugh. (#1 in both areas, IIRC) That's kind of what it takes to win without the right QB.

Muddling those waters are the interdependent relationships between QB & scheme/system, and QB & WR's.
The QB can make players better just as the other players can make the QB better; and the same goes for the scheme/system.

The trick is to find the best possible matchup of all of those variables. Obviously, a QB like Peyton Manning makes it a lot easier, but he's a once-in-a-generation kinda player. This is where guys seeming come out of nowhere and turn into rock stars, because every now and again a coach is able to get a guy who just pretty much perfectly fits what it is that he is trying to do. Meanwhile, every other coach is racing against the clock trying to find that guy before their tenure is ended.

I heard the whining too.

My guess was that it would have been confined to us taking Mingo over Milliner or a trade down but I didn't hear much of that. One of the radio personalities was pitching a fit because we didn't take Honey Badger but bashed us for taking the 7th round flyer on Bryant. I know both have troubles, but its a completely different ballgame taking a 3rd than a 7th when it comes to that stuff IMO. He would have had a better argument if he fell further....even still, I'm glad we didn't draft him.

I did hear a bunch of concern about the trade with Pittsburgh, not necessarily the person Pitt drafted. I tend to surf all those radio shows and perhaps I missed it, but some callers shared my concern, that we simply did a deal with Pitt regardless of the draft pick. Either way, we'll find out later who wins this one.

To your reference about giving our players time to develop, if you are referring to the current roster, I agree. I think evidence of the trades allow more of this to happen. It will be interested to see what happens and #2CB, FS, ILB now...

One person I am interested in seeing more of is this Gilkey guy. Very raw it seems but with a big mean streak.

Having a good offense sure does help your defense when you're able to put them in positions where they know the other team has to throw.

How would the Steelers or Ravens defense look if they were always down 7-10 points like it always seems like we are?

Actually we saw that in 2007 with the Ravens when they had a horrible offense and we swept them.

Yeah, I saw a few references to "Why didn't they take the Honey Badger" ....... then later in the same article, "Why did they take a chance on a kid caught selling pot?" Maybe because one was a 3rd round pick and the other was a 7th round flyer?

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This is where guys seeming come out of nowhere and turn into rock stars, because every now and again a coach is able to get a guy who just pretty much perfectly fits what it is that he is trying to do. Meanwhile, every other coach is racing against the clock trying to find that guy before their tenure is ended.

And some coaches take what they are given, analyze the strengths of the players, and tweak up their system to take advantage of the players abilities... that's the kind of coach we need...

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This is where guys seeming come out of nowhere and turn into rock stars, because every now and again a coach is able to get a guy who just pretty much perfectly fits what it is that he is trying to do. Meanwhile, every other coach is racing against the clock trying to find that guy before their tenure is ended.

And some coaches take what they are given, analyze the strengths of the players, and tweak up their system to take advantage of the players abilities... that's the kind of coach we need...

I think we have three of them, Chud, Turner and Horton.

That could end up making all the difference.

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Yeah, I saw a few references to "Why didn't they take the Honey Badger" ....... then later in the same article, "Why did they take a chance on a kid caught selling pot?" Maybe because one was a 3rd round pick and the other was a 7th round flyer?

LOL. Honey Badger admitted he had no idea how many drug tests he failed because he stopped counting at 10. Good stuff there, in the 3rd.

I'd rather spend the 7th on someone who was putting what he learned in his finance class to good use

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Yeah, I saw a few references to "Why didn't they take the Honey Badger" ....... then later in the same article, "Why did they take a chance on a kid caught selling pot?" Maybe because one was a 3rd round pick and the other was a 7th round flyer?

LOL. Honey Badger admitted he had no idea how many drug tests he failed because he stopped counting at 10. Good stuff there, in the 3rd.

I'd rather spend the 7th on someone who was putting what he learned in his finance class to good use

hey, CBs have to work really hard to forget what happened on the last play. he's already got that short-term memory loss in the bag.

So true King Cob...Winning is the cure all.

When we become winners...most of the whining will stop not all but most.

Lets take a real good look at Gipson before everyone starts lamenting about us not having a FS.

Let us see what youngsters step up...Cameron could be an upgrade on Watson??? We don't know.

JMJ, Roberson , Sheard - I think one of these players will step up n into the role of ILB.

McFadden is going to surprise many n I think he will win the RCB starting position n look good doing it. In a season or two later we might have the Bryant Dawgs terrorizing the NFL on each side of the field. So much depends on our coaches now n getting these kids to all believe in their Systems...

We are getting closer to that competitive Browns team we once knew or for the newer Browns fans...the team they always envisioned us to be!

Woof! Woof! Woof!!
JMHO

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When we become winners...most of the whining will stop not all but most.

Personally, I think your being optimistic

I don't think any of the whining will stop. LOL

I agree Eo.

You have to give Banner and Lonbardi credit. As Banner said, we have some young guy who don't know what they will become, so we are giving some another year.

Now we have extra picks next year if they don't become who they want to become.

To steal a line.....Brilliant!

I was really hoping we would get Tyler Bray after the draft since he was an UDFA. I feel he would have been a great guy to coach up. I think we missed the boat on him. He has great size and decent numbers.

Oh well, that is why I work Construction and these guys acquire players.

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I was really hoping we would get Tyler Bray after the draft since he was an UDFA. I feel he would have been a great guy to coach up. I think we missed the boat on him. He has great size and decent numbers.

Oh well, that is why I work Construction and these guys acquire players.

Maybe he didnt want to come here.

As a UDFA you do get to choose if you get more than one offer

'Early returns on Cleveland Browns draft rate it average at best'

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2013/04/early_returns_on_cleveland_bro_1.html

By Mary Kay Cabot, The Plain Dealer on April 28, 2013 at 10:32 PM, updated April 29, 2013 at 7:13 PM

CLEVELAND, Ohio -- National experts weighed in on the Browns' draft Sunday, and the general consensus was that CEO Joe Banner and General Manager Mike Lombardi were very average in their inaugural selection meeting together here in Cleveland.

Most graders gave the Browns a C, with a couple of highly respected sites -- Sporting News and Sports Illustrated -- dinging them with D's. However, two analysts from Fox Sports liked what the Browns did, one giving them a B and the other a B-plus.

Most of the analysts seemed to like the first-round selection of Barkevious Mingo but some were puzzled by the pick considering the Browns signed pass rushers Paul Kruger and Desmond Bryant in free agency. Many didn't see the wisdom in the Browns surrendering fourth- and fifth-round picks this year for third- and fourth-rounders in 2014.

But third-round pick Leon McFadden, the cornerback out of San Diego State, was a popular choice among the pundits.

A look at the national grades and some of the comments:

Chris Burke, SI.com

Grade: D-plus

Burke described it as "bit of an unusal draft for the Browns, who landed an impact defender in OLB Barkevious Mingo at No. 6 and then picked just once more (CB Leon McFadden) in the next 167 selections." He noted the two selections for 2014 and feels the gamble on Josh Gordon in the supplemental draft paid off. "Strictly in terms of the 2013 draft, though, there's not much to go on here -- slightly disappointing for a team hoping to make big strides," he wrote.

Rob Rang, CBS Sports

Grade: C

Brugler, who accurately predicted the Browns would select Mingo in his draft day mock, wrote: "I understand the passion to attack the quarterback, but I wonder why the Browns elected to pay for Paul Kruger if they were going to draft Barkevious Mingo at No. 6 overall. Where does that put Jabaal Sheard, who was one of the team's better players a year ago? I love cornerback Leon McFadden's athleticism as well, but he's just 5-10. Frankly, I thought the Browns got their best value in the seventh round with intriguing developmental pass rusher Armonty Bryant and Garrett Gilkey, a developmental offensive lineman who impressed me at the Senior Bowl. Adding picks for the 2014 Draft helps what otherwise I thought was one of the least impressive draft classes."

Mel Kiper, ESPN

Grade: C-plus

Kiper has his doubts about Mingo, which hurt the Browns' grade.

"I don't know if it's a good thing, per se, but the guy who will impact the Browns most in 2013 might not be the player they took at No. 6 overall," he wrote. "At No. 68 overall, they took Leon McFadden, a much-needed CB who knows how to operate on an island. As I look at the depth chart, I don't see a reason why McFadden can't break camp as the starter across from Joe Haden. That's not a small deal because it also maximizes Buster Skrine, who will be able to spend more time in the slot, where he's much better."

Consistent with his pre-draft evaluation, Kiper felt Mingo should've had more than 4.5 sacks last season despite drawing double teams and being asked to contain mobile quarterbacks instead of attack them at times.

He described Mingo as "a player I'm at once infatuated with as a talent, but skeptical of because of what I considered production that didn't match up with his talent. Now, Mingo adds depth at outside linebacker, but he's going to need some developmental work because he played with his hand on the ground at LSU. After that, there isn't a lot here that you'll see in 2013. Jamoris Slaughter could provide depth at safety. The lack of a second-round pick really hurt the Browns, who could have used a higher-rated guard -- though I do think Garrett Gilkey has the chance to start eventually -- and I thought would have been wise to add another inside linebacker. But Josh Gordon is developing and Davone Bess should provide Brandon Weeden with another solid target in the passing game. The hope is Mingo becomes a star, and McFadden can perform early. The good news is, both could happen."

Vinnie Iyer, Sporting News

Grade: D

Iyer was puzzled by a couple of Browns' decisions, including not taking a quarterback and selecting a cornerback whom he feels is more of an inside guy than a starter opposite Joe Haden.

"For a young team with multiple issues, it's odd the Browns worked their way down to just five picks," he wrote. "LSU first-rounder Barkevious Mingo is a high-risk, high-reward edge pass rusher for their 3-4. They needed a corner for the outside, yet took one, San Diego State's Leon McFadden, better suited for the slot. The biggest head-scratcher was the fact Cleveland officials, not all in on Brandon Weeden, didn't at least take a chance on one of the quarterback prospects after most of them slid.

Peter Prisco, CBS Sports

Grade: C

Prisco's favorite pick was McFadden, whom he deemed a bit undersized "but a solid cover corner who fits a need."

He also questioned the Mingo pick.

"They had two outside rushers and had some other bigger needs. He's a good player, but not a great fit."

He granted Notre Dame safety Jamoris Slaughter, who's coming off the torn Achilles tendon, his "third-day gem" status, acknowledging that he's a risk, but worth it if he can bounce back.

"In his first draft as general manager, I just didn't get the wow factor from Mike Lombardi," Prisco wrote. "I like Mingo, but I thought they had other needs. They did add receiver Davone Bess in a trade (with Miami) for very little.

Evan Silva, Yahoo Sports

Grade: C

Silva excluded Gordon from his evaluation, but included Bess. In exchange for Bess, the Browns moved down seven spots in the fourth round and gave Miami a fifth-rounder for a seventh. He did like the idea of stockpiling picks for next season.

"Mingo was the most naturally explosive edge presence in this draft," he wrote. "McFadden may be stretched covering outside receivers in the NFL, but projects as an upgrade on Buster Skrine at nickel back. Bryant has some upside as a small-school project. Slaughter can be a core special teamer if his Achilles' is right. Lombardi's first draft haul underwhelms on paper, but the Browns can capitalize on his forward-minded thinking next year."

Jen Floyd Engel, Fox Sports

Grade: B

Of all the experts, Engel was the most complimentary of Lombardi and his first draft after five years as an NFL Network analyst.

"There is little not to love about what Mike Lombardi did, even the Barkevious Mingo gamble, which is the best part of this draft for them. They have a GM, a real-deal GM."

Alex Marvez, Fox Sports

Grade: C-minus

Marvez wasn't overly impressed with the Browns' "wait 'til next year" strategy in the middle rounds.

"Outside linebacker Mingo provides some bark to Cleveland's Dawg Pound, but the Browns added only one more player (San Diego State cornerback Leon McFadden) before Round Six," he wrote. "On the positive side, they secured extra third- and fourth-round choices in next year's draft through trades and have already started reaping the dividends of using its 2013 second-round pick in last year's supplemental draft on budding wide receiver Josh Gordon."

Peter Schrager, Fox Sports

Grade: B-plus

Schrager gave the Browns a higher grade than anyone else, particularly for parlaying the fourth- and fifth-rounders into third- and fourth-rounders in 2014.

"You can only do so much when you don't have a second-round pick, and I think Cleveland brass is awfully happy with Gordon, essentially their second-round pick," he said. "Mingo will complement Paul Kruger well in Ray Horton's 3-4. This was a productive draft for the long term."

(end)

It's way to early...

But I was talking the draft today with a buddie. I ask him one simple question and he really couldnt come right out and give me an obvious yes/answer. At which position did we no doubt get better at?

I like what the FO did in FA, but the draft is a different story. I think we got better at our 3rd wr and back-up OLB. If that's all you can take away from a draft, then I think the FO did a very poor job.

Combine that with our glaring needs at CB and S, they give up to 2 mid rd picks for next year w/out addressing those needs??????? Really makes me question whoever is making the calls.

In fairness to judge H&H post year ...
Gordon - good
TR- solid/potential
Hughes- solid
Winn- solid/potential
Weeden- struggling/potential
T Benjamin - solid
Schwartz- good/potential
Fort- solid/potential
JMJ- solid

All these players contributed and have potential. I know I'm missing someone.

Is there a rule against signing free agents after the draft?

nope... and I do believe we still have room in camp for more bodies

Then I don't think it is fair to judge the new guys when they haven't been given a full off-season to complete their objectives.

If we go out and sign Kerry Rhodes, Karlos Dansby, and Quentin Jammer tomorrow I'm guessing people would have a different view of the draft.

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Then I don't think it is fair to judge the new guys when they haven't been given a full off-season to complete their objectives.

If we go out and sign Kerry Rhodes, Karlos Dansby, and Quentin Jammer tomorrow I'm guessing people would have a different view of the draft.

I think we are forced to now... but it doesnt matter as far as the draft. Ill take Jammer/Rhodes. I think we got plenty of talent already at LB(young and vet). Even if they did sign those guys, I think they did a poor job w the draft. If we have more FA's to sign to fill gaps........then what will we have left to secure future contracts for our own players? Draft is cheaper way to go

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This is where guys seeming come out of nowhere and turn into rock stars, because every now and again a coach is able to get a guy who just pretty much perfectly fits what it is that he is trying to do. Meanwhile, every other coach is racing against the clock trying to find that guy before their tenure is ended.

And some coaches take what they are given, analyze the strengths of the players, and tweak up their system to take advantage of the players abilities... that's the kind of coach we need...

I think we have three of them, Chud, Turner and Horton.

That could end up making all the difference.

Not sure how many of you have seen, on the NFL channel, the documentary on the '95 Browns but I found it incredibly enlightening as to just how cruel Art Modell was, not just the fans, to the team and FO period. You could truly see the hurt and pain in the way everyone went through that season from Belichick on down. Ozzie stated it at the end of the show that they 'knew" they had a super bowl team that year before Fart broke the news and caused everyone to lose focus.

Lombardi and Chud were key players in that team and I for one, given the opportunity to do it again, think they want to finish what Art kept them from completing the first time around. These guys have Cleveland Fan in their blood and I know they have the desire, and even more experience, to bring home "The Ring". How about we give them a chance? It took "The Hoodie" 4 years the first time, I don't think it will take quite as long with the players we already have in place for Chud.

Just my 2 cents worth.
Go Browns!

Very objective grades on last year's picks.

Now, I get why you don't think why we haven't improved at any position this year. LOL

I've been having fun listening to people on the radio who obviously don't follow the Browns or fully understand where they are, discussing the draft... it's pretty funny.

j/c

I simply don't get it. Browns draft is a bust because they turned down fourth round safety Shamarko Thomas!

I guess Banner/Lombardi/Farmer/Chud can salvage their careers quickly signing Quintin Mikell for a year!

Is this truly what people think a fourth and fifth rounder will break this team? Really?

Frankly I could care less what a bunch of TV guys say about a teams draft results. They are grading a team based on their individual draft board. With that said, Mel Kiper pretty much nails it with this...

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"I don't know if it's a good thing, per se, but the guy who will impact the Browns most in 2013 might not be the player they took at No. 6 overall," he wrote. "At No. 68 overall, they took Leon McFadden, a much-needed CB who knows how to operate on an island. As I look at the depth chart, I don't see a reason why McFadden can't break camp as the starter across from Joe Haden. That's not a small deal because it also maximizes Buster Skrine, who will be able to spend more time in the slot, where he's much better."

Consistent with his pre-draft evaluation, Kiper felt Mingo should've had more than 4.5 sacks last season despite drawing double teams and being asked to contain mobile quarterbacks instead of attack them at times.

He described Mingo as "a player I'm at once infatuated with as a talent, but skeptical of because of what I considered production that didn't match up with his talent. Now, Mingo adds depth at outside linebacker, but he's going to need some developmental work because he played with his hand on the ground at LSU. After that, there isn't a lot here that you'll see in 2013. Jamoris Slaughter could provide depth at safety. The lack of a second-round pick really hurt the Browns, who could have used a higher-rated guard -- though I do think Garrett Gilkey has the chance to start eventually -- and I thought would have been wise to add another inside linebacker. But Josh Gordon is developing and Davone Bess should provide Brandon Weeden with another solid target in the passing game. The hope is Mingo becomes a star, and McFadden can perform early. The good news is, both could happen."

Mel brings up solid points. Mingo's numbers should have been better. Mel states he is skeptical. Fine, I can live with it. Compare that with Jarvis Jones and Dion Jordon both have medical concerns. Nobody from the top three was perfect. Lombardi is gambling the medical concerns are a bigger issue.

For the Milliner crowd, he too had medical concerns. In the end, Lombardi decision is take the healthy athletic player trusting his coaches can make it work.

Next year Lombardi needs to find better players than Shamarko Thomas in the third and Montori Hughes in the fourth. I'm thinking it may take a whole Saturday afternoon this fall to make that happen! BrowŸs already have better QB's than any available in the fourth round. They traded a third round QB, so people are saying get a fourth or fifth rounder as a replacement! How is that improving the roster?

For all you Shamarko fans, you do realize he was ranked 7-10 best safety. Troy Polamalu replacement...gosh I hope so! Last year full back was the critical area. I guess the make or break position this season is free safety!! What will it be next year long snapper? If these are the biggest areas of concern, Browns would have more than 5 wins every year.

Thanks for the reads...I love these Bozos n Draftnicks all I got to read to know they are idiots is...Why did we take Mingo when we already picked up KRUGER...ummm really like we only play football on ONE side of the field...are these guys joking??? That Kruger solved our inefficient pass rush??? Amazing what these guys come up with...oh we didn't take a QB

Back in '07 the Giants won the super bowl, in large part because they had 4 legit guys that could get pressure.. they had 3 guys with more than 9 sacks and Kiwanuka who was young and disruptive....

All of these guys keep saying we didn't fill our needs.. none of them suggest who we should have taken at 6 to "fill a need"... many of them, I even wonder if they have watched enough of the Browns to know what our needs are.... my guess is most look at stats, see what the national media says, then parrot that.

I especially like the ones that say our defense wasn't the problem last year, our offense was and we didn't address the offense.. we have JT, we have a 1st round center playing well, a 2nd round RT playing well, 2 2nd round WRs playing pretty well, a 1st round QB and a 1st round RB, all drafted in the last 3 years... other than possibly TE, where were we supposed to go at #6?

Kiper came right out n said we should have taken Eifert...yeah I'm sure we would have been praised for selecting a TE at #6...

Kiper = seasonal Bozo lol

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Kiper came right out n said we should have taken Eifert...yeah I'm sure we would have been praised for selecting a TE at #6... Kiper = seasonal Bozo lol

But the last time we took a TE at 6 it worked out so .... well .......

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Kiper came right out n said we should have taken Eifert...yeah I'm sure we would have been praised for selecting a TE at #6... Kiper = seasonal Bozo lol

But the last time we took a TE at 6 it worked out so .... well .......

To be fair, that guy was on his way to becoming one of the best pass catching TEs in football before he got hurt and the wheels fell off (pun intended)...

Who the hell wants to be fair?

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Kiper came right out n said we should have taken Eifert...yeah I'm sure we would have been praised for selecting a TE at #6... Kiper = seasonal Bozo lol

But the last time we took a TE at 6 it worked out so .... well .......

To be fair, that guy was on his way to becoming one of the best pass catching TEs in football before he got hurt and the wheels fell off (pun intended)...

Didn't he get wrecked before he accomplished anything in the NFL?

Yeah, was an awesome move. To this day Butch is the only guy to get schooled by Millen on a trade.

It did not take a lot to figure out the Winslow did not have the hamster turning the wheel upstairs....

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It did not take a lot to figure out the Winslow did not have the hamster turning the wheel upstairs....

... and that's why he used handlebars to wreck his life...

2013 Cleveland Browns draft:

1-Mingo OLB
2- Gordon WR** supplimental draft
3-McFadden CB
4-Traded to Pukesburgh
5-Traded to Indy
5-Traded to Dolphins for Bess
6-Jamoris Slaughter S
7-Amonty Bryant DE
7-Gilkey OG