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Posted By: edromeo 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 12/09/17 04:06 PM
Greeting fellow couch scouts!



Once again we're going to try our hand at a group evaluation of the current draft class QBs.

If you don't remember the format can be viewed here:

https://www.dawgtalkers.net/ubbthreads.php/topics/1207770/film-breakdown-deshaun-watson#Post1207770

https://www.dawgtalkers.net/ubbthreads.php/topics/1204045/film-breakdown-mitch-trubisky#Post1204045

https://www.dawgtalkers.net/ubbthreads.php/topics/1247069/film-breakdown-the-other-guys#Post1247069

Anyhow...the lofty purpose of these threads is to have an objective view of youtube cut-ups of the QB prospects.


How?

View a games posted on youtube / http://draftbreakdown.com/. Individually watch/chart the games keeping note of the plays that stand out.

Reference the plays that stand out via time stamp e.g. @2:43 blah blah
@ 3:32 blah blah etc...


Anyhow who is in? And where to start?
Posted By: kwhip Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 12/09/17 04:12 PM
Hell yeah. We need to pick these guys apart.

I'd start with the 2 consensus picks to go #1.

Darnold and Rosen.

Cause I'd BANK IT we're going QB at #1.
Posted By: edromeo Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 01/13/18 02:15 PM
Games on the que for breakdown/discussion:

This is the full cut-up of the UCLA vs USC game

Posted By: edromeo Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 01/13/18 02:18 PM
Games on the que for breakdown/discussion:

This is the full cut-up of the Louisville vs FSU game

Posted By: Day of the Dawg Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 01/13/18 02:23 PM
Josh Rosen vs Texas A&M 2016

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=87DN6a3Di8U

Josh Rosen vs Texas A&M 2017

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0H_BQAimYfA
Posted By: Day of the Dawg Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 01/13/18 02:24 PM
Sam Darnold vs Penn State 2016

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqjBJbowLSk

Sam Darnold vs Ohio State 2017

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dVwQ718zvpc
Posted By: edromeo Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 01/13/18 03:15 PM
You posted games but didn't really say anything about why you posted them...are those the game you are going to chart?

The 2 games I posted earlier are because those are the next games that are going to be charted by CHSdawg and myself for discussion.
Posted By: Day of the Dawg Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 01/13/18 03:55 PM
Originally Posted By: edromeo
You posted games but didn't really say anything about why you posted them...are those the game you are going to chart?

The 2 games I posted earlier are because those are the next games that are going to be charted by CHSdawg and myself for discussion.


Yes. I want to look at Rosen vs A&M in back to back year and Darnold vs A Big Ten team in a bowl game in back to back years.
Posted By: Day of the Dawg Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 01/13/18 04:51 PM
Originally Posted By: Day of the Dawg



In 2016 vs Texas A&M

Rosen shows the ability to read the defense both pre and post snaps. There is a pay at the 2:53 mark that shows a slow motion replay of him going thru his progressions quickly. Delivers NFL caliber throws on time to receivers with anticipation. Has a very nice play action pass. Give this kid time in the pocket and he will kill you.

He is a better athlete than I thought example was this tremendous athletic play at the 8:22 mark where he drops the snap in shot gun and still completes a back shoulder throw for a first down still basically on time.

At the 9:33 shows more ability to scramble with the ball than I anticipated. Won't beat anyone with his feet but mobile enough to scramble when needed.

at the 10:39 mark rolls out to right sees defender running with head not turned and throws a strike to receiver for log TD. Shows ability to make plays when nothing is initially available.

8:46 mark executes a really good play action pass and hits wide receiver in stride for what should have been a huge gain possible score but receiver drops ball.

When the pocket breaks down he loses some of his good mechanics and is prone to making bad decisions.

One of the worst decisions I have ever seen happened on play at the 1:23 mark in the video 8:41 left in the first half ball at midfield on a 3rd and 4 play leading 3-0. A flipper int off a blitz where the safety gets home.

6:24 mark in video throws off back foot anticipating pressure off edge.

7:40 mark misses open receiver deep.

At 11:40 mark with the game tied throws terrible pick (3rd of game) Throw came off back foot after for the 2nd time in the game he dropped snap.

Overall in this first meeting with A&M as a Sophomore you could see the talent he is at QB. He commands the LOS, reads defenses, knows where to go with the ball, and given time delivers strikes. Struggled for most of the game with pressure and lost the good mechanics throwing rushed and sometimes off his back foot. Then with the game on the line used his feet to combat the pressure and improvised to make big plays.
Posted By: Day of the Dawg Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 01/13/18 05:30 PM
Originally Posted By: Day of the Dawg


In the 2017 game

Early in the video you see the same good traits that struck out from the 2016 video. He makes pre and post snap reads. Quick decisions from the pocket, sneaky athletic ability. But, what stood out for me in this video is his command of the no huddle 2 minutes offense that UCLA was in the entire 2nd half.

At the 1:09 mark throws a great deep ball that not only draws a pass interference but a long completion off of a good play fake.

At the 2:41 mark stands in face of a open blitzer and delvers strike from spot where blitz came from. This is an improvement I noticed from the 2016 game where he throw off his back foot in similar situations.

At the 3:00 minute mark executes a great pump fake to freeze a linebacker and throw a strike to the tight end.

Made back to back plays at the 7:00 minute mark first with pressure in face throws ball off back foot side arm with velocity for a first down.

Next play rolls to left throws again off back foot into a crowd and receiver comes up with the ball. I am giving him the benefit of the doubt here because the receiver seems to be the only person the made a play on the ball. But, pass looked kinda forced. Time and score did dictate forcing throws though.

At the 8:20 mark cleanly grabs a bad snap and delivers a strike to the tight end for a first down.

At the 9:30 mark fakes the spike of ball play for the go ahead touchdown to complete the comeback from a 44-10 deficit.

Does it again at the 8:20 mark executes a pump fake to freeze the linebacker and throws a strike to tight end for big gain.

At the 5:54 mark throws a bad pass more of a bad read that should have been intercepted ball goes thru defenders hands and right to receiver.

After watching both games I would have no issue with Browns drafting Rosen. I see a QB that understands the offense and knows where to go with the ball. Reads defenses pre snap with good crisp quick decisions. Reads defenses post snap showing ability to either move safeties with his eyes or linebackers with pump fakes. He can be influenced into bad decisions and bad throws off back foot with pressure.

Overall I have to compare his game to Eli Manning coming out of college.
Posted By: bonefish Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 01/13/18 05:51 PM

Just my two cents.

When you breakdown "one" game you can fall into a trap. This guy made this mistake in this game. Or WOW watch this game and see how great this guy is.

20 year old college quarterbacks are not going to look or play the same after three years in the pros.

You are trying to project an entire career based upon a few college games.

Sam Darnold threw some int's in 2017. I don't care.

You have to see the forest not a tree.

The pros coach you way better than what happens in college. Look at what great quarterbacks did their first years in the pros. Pretty ugly really.

For me it is all about the true talent the player has not the rough edges. NFL coaches perspective: "What do I have to work with here?"

Does Derek Carr look and play now like he did in college?
Posted By: kwhip Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 01/13/18 06:38 PM
Good stuff, Dawg!

It takes time to do that. All you guys that do it, just wanna throw y'all a BONE!

It's appreciated!
Posted By: edromeo Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 01/13/18 06:49 PM
Good stuff DD and thanks for your contribution!

Are you gonna post your charting for the whole game?

Like I said earlier CHSdawg and myself are still charting out the games I posted earlier so I won't be able to respond to your post for awhile.
Posted By: FATE Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 01/13/18 07:02 PM

JOSH ALLEN BOISE STATE 2017

http://draftbreakdown.com/2017/10/27/josh-allen-vs-boise-state-2017/


I looked through through schedule and results to intentionally pick a less than desirable game.

Lost 24-14 to Boise State ~ 12 27 131 44.4 1/2 82.6
I hear the same sentence over and over... "makes dumb decisions, not very accurate". TBH, when watching a "highlight" video, you salivate at his size, arm strength, touch, vision, open field running and toughness. I said "Wow, whatever the bad things are, if they can be corrected you have a prototypical championship caliber QB cast out of a mold to play in the AFC North, no two ways about it."

On to the game...


0:04 TD Josh allen being Josh Allen, this is what he does best - making amazing throws on the run.

2:45 RUN looks at all three receivers before he takes off... Tucks the ball and becomes a RB after he crosses LOS. Makes a subtle move to fake defender and gain more yardage (his little stutter steps and head fakes makes him look a lot like Gronk when running the ball).

4:05 INT Pump fake (for no reason, actually probably sold safety on the throw) Overthrown for the INT as the safety made a great read. On the bright side: stood steady as last line of defense and actually made the tackle after a big return. Inaccurate throw into what became triple coverage the biggest culprits here.

4:41 INC Wobbly pass low and behind open receiver, this is (from what I read) the biggest knock on the kid.

5:40 COMP Kid throws a nice dart without overthrowing most of the time. If you watch the two replays you'll also see that he scans the field quickly and thoroughly to find open receiver, this is pretty typical from what I've seen.

6:36 COMP Never afraid of the rush, times a screen type pass to RB well and throws a very catchable ball. Very good at adjusting touch and velocity on most of his passes.

7:36 COMP Sees pressure and flushes out, great instincts ensue and another highlight quality play goes in the books. Again, JA at his finest, making things happen outside the pocket.

9:57 TD On the run, defender all over him, throws across his body. Accurate throw with velocity for a TD. I sometimes think he is better and more accurate throwing on the run. Like Big Ben he kept defender at bay with a couple pump fakes.

NEXT PLAY INC Standing flat footed, easy throw, short distance, fires it at receivers feet. Go figure.

11:33 INT Ill advised pass down by 10 with under a minute left.


OTHER NOTES: Saw four or five sacks. Goes down like Big Ben, not an easy tackle, protects the ball (two sacks were attempted strip sacks that failed).

Has "happy feet" but seems to throw better that way lol.

One of the better college QBs (I've seen) at working through progressions and looking off receivers. Makes decisions very quickly and delivers the ball quickly.

There were several runs that were solid gains, probably should have charted them but did not. Nothing extravagant but he definitely seems to find a lane quickly and maximize yardage without taking punishment.


* This is from http://draftbreakdown.com, I thought all plays would be shown, they were not. Were his best throws and worst throws shown? Don't know.
Posted By: Hammer Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 01/13/18 07:46 PM
Don't sleep on Allen.
Posted By: eotab Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 01/13/18 11:16 PM
Thank you for sharing ed... wink
Posted By: dean_fairchild Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 01/14/18 02:14 AM
What does his release look like to you? To me from the little I’ve watched of him he reminds me to some extent of Blake Boryles, but with better mechanics. The kid makes a lot of “wow” throws but then leaves you shaking your head. In your opinion from what you e watched are his faults and bad throws something that could be correctable?
Posted By: FATE Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 01/14/18 06:38 AM
A little long in the windup, overcome by the ball moving very quickly through the throwing motion.

I think most faults are correctable, well, except Tim Tebow's throwing motion. Statistics show that accuracy issues at the collegiate level usual don't go away so easily in the NFL. JA is a strange animal... after watching a few games he seems to have an uncanny trait that is completely counter-intuitive... Much of the time he seems to go through his progressions too quickly. When he gets to his third or fourth receiver he just fires the ball at him, or throws into coverage. After 1.5 seconds in the pocket he is doing 1 of two things... throwing a pass whether someone is open or not (his arm bails him out a lot because he can throw a ball on a ROPE and very often threads the needle... OR flushing out, sometimes for no particular reason at all. Thing is, once he does flush, he is at his most dangerous. Throwing on the run with success, while obviously a trait of having an incredible arm (his arm is elite at ANY level), also gives him time to make an accurate throw. If he flushes out and runs, he is EXACTLY what you want as a QB running the ball - big, strong, fast and just shifty enough to avoid direct hits.

Bill Belichick should consider drafting Allen because it will take two years. He is raw, he throws the ball.. he needs more spin and to deliver more "catchable" balls. He can throw a ball through a tornado but it will look like the same wobbly duck as if he's tossing it 10 yards on the practice field. Not all of the time, but much of the time.

Bottom line. Anyone that argues there is a QB with more upside is a fool (I mean that in the nicest way), but this is a two year experiment. If we trade for Alex Smith and take Allen, I'm fine with it... and excited. If JA and DK are our QBs going into next season without a solid vet QB, we are in big trouble.
Posted By: dean_fairchild Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 01/14/18 11:53 AM
I agree, need a vet. Just haven’t gotten to see a lot of Allen.
Posted By: RedBaron Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 01/15/18 10:04 PM
I really don't like Josh Allen. I'm sorry. He reminds me of Derek Anderson, except Josh Allen has better feet.

Both seem to be mid 50's in their college completion percentages though.
Posted By: edromeo Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 01/18/18 10:11 PM
Originally Posted By: edromeo
Games on the que for breakdown/discussion:

This is the full cut-up of the UCLA vs USC game

Finally finished charting this game.

Is anyone interested in discussion of this game?
Posted By: CHSDawg Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 01/18/18 10:28 PM
Absolutely thumbsup
Posted By: Hammer Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 01/19/18 12:28 AM
So much better than derek anderson.
Posted By: edromeo Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 01/20/18 05:35 PM
Accuracy is currently one of the most subjective and ambiguous 'traits' in the draft process.

It's a label that can applied to anyone.
Even when some draft experts take the time to chart the accuracy for the prospects it dismissed in favor of people's subjective 'eyeball' accuracy test. 

Accuracy is a trait that gets talked about without any attempt at an objective measure or assessment.

Any how Ian Wharton has taken the time to chart for accuracy and I will post his assessments later.
Posted By: AlwaysABrownsFan Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 01/20/18 09:51 PM
So hard to evaluate any of these guys purely by stats. I just rely on my "EYE" test to pick the top guy.


Look at the raw numbers below without taking ANYTHING else into consideration about the team the guy was playing for and his support staff.

GAMES- COMP- ATTEMPTS-- %- - YDS---- TD---- INTS Rating
12 ---- 221---- 378--------58.5----2432----17-----23----115.2



Above is Dan Marino's Senior year.
He was NEVER above 60 Percent completion ratio in 4 years of College ball.
Posted By: edromeo Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 01/20/18 10:06 PM
Posted By: edromeo Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 01/20/18 10:07 PM
Posted By: edromeo Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 01/20/18 10:08 PM
Posted By: edromeo Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 01/20/18 10:16 PM
Posted By: edromeo Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 01/20/18 10:17 PM
Posted By: edromeo Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 01/20/18 10:18 PM
Posted By: edromeo Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 01/20/18 10:20 PM
Posted By: mgh888 Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 01/20/18 11:00 PM
In regard to the USC game I watched the first 4 minutes early this a.m. and have come back to finish and this time make some notes. It's my first game of watching Rosen. Damn the kid throws the ball beautifully. In no order and speed typing:

very accurate and very consistent. I don't know when i last saw a college qb consistently lead the receiver with catchable balls so they can make plays. catching ball away from body even on crossing/slant routes. really impressive. ** How good or bad was the USC defense? ? ?

while he's tall - he looks skinny and thin legged. does not look tough - though threw the ball well when about to be hit - like throw made at 6:48

no real escapability - a statue in the pocket. could easily get hurt in NFL if he's that static and not a lot of pocket awareness.

seems like he had a good set of WR's and pass catching TE - wonder how that compares to someone like Josh Allen.

4:31 - even though it was an incompletion, areally nice throw showing how he leads the WR
5:03 - under pressure and still gets to second read
5:40 - looked like an NFL throw/play. v good
6:48 - immediate pressure and hit but made the throw
9:43 - clean pocket no pressure but an awful decision and throw
11:06 - made me think of Kizer - coz that's a throw Kizer has struggled to make and it seems (to me) to be one reason our TE's weren't as productive with Kizer as they were with other QBs
12.18 - had to wait an awful long time for him to suddenly look like Kizer and have the ball sail.
13:32 - incompletion - but a really great/accurate throw into tough coverage with a man underneath.
14:18 - just a great throw, something he could throw to Josh Gordon 2 or 3 times a game!

Damn impressive.
Posted By: FATE Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 01/21/18 12:04 AM
Good stuff edromeo.

Rosen vs Allen:

Overall PRE LOS

Rosen 90%... 22% of his attempts are PRE LOS

Allen 83%... 14% of his attempts are PRE LOS


Overall 0-10 yds

Rosen 72%... 45% of his attempts are 0-10 yds

Allen 72%... 44% of his attempts are 0-10 yds


Overall 11-19 yds

Rosen 76%... 24% of his attempts are 11-19 yds

Allen 62%... 26% of his attempts are 11-19 yds


Overall 20 yds +

Rosen 33%... 9% of his attempts are over 20 yds

Allen 33%... 16% of his attempts are over 20 yds


Glaring differences...
Rosen throws a much higher percentage of passes that are behind the line of scrimmage where he has a completion percentage of 90% (Allen 83%). Allen throws a much higher percentage of passes that are over 20 yds, where his completion percentage is 33% (Rosen the same). Although we all know that Rosen is more accurate, this helps explain the large disparity in completion percentage.

Allen completes 62% of his passes between 11-19yds while Rosen completes a very impressive 76%. Wow, when I was working through the numbers I expected this percentage to be much closer. One might argue that this stat does more to explain the disparity than the percentage of longer passes.
Posted By: Razorthorns Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 01/21/18 03:12 AM
Originally Posted By: edromeo


That is insane accuracy on deep balls to the left side at 62%. BTW I notice the stats are only for a sample size and not their full career. It's still very interesting. Where did they come from?
Posted By: eotab Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 01/21/18 10:58 AM
Question???

Its says USC vs UCLA 2017 but Rosen completes a pass to Jordan Leslie...isn't that our Leslie that was on our team this year...or am I thinking of Higgins???

Posted By: edromeo Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 01/21/18 11:25 AM
The sample size for the accuracy charts covers the 2017 season. They are from Ian Wharton.
Posted By: Jester Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 01/21/18 11:42 AM
Originally Posted By: eotab
Question???

Its says USC vs UCLA 2017 but Rosen completes a pass to Jordan Leslie...isn't that our Leslie that was on our team this year...or am I thinking of Higgins???




Jordan Lasley
http://uclabruins.com/roster.aspx?rp_id=5467
Posted By: Razorthorns Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 01/21/18 12:28 PM
Originally Posted By: edromeo
The sample size for the accuracy charts covers the 2017 season. They are from Ian Wharton.


Thanks for clearing that up!
Posted By: eotab Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 01/21/18 02:53 PM
different person...Leslie on our team...memory tells me he is kid from BYU???
Lesley from UCLA...got it, I think...lol:D
Posted By: edromeo Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 01/21/18 03:30 PM
Originally Posted By: edromeo


UCLA vs USC

51 plays

Under pressure plays:
1:01
1:46
2:14
3:03
3:49
4:09
4:56
6:36
6:53
7:20
8:54
10:05
10:23

Muddy pocket:
3:49
4:09
5:21
7:20

Evasion plays: -

Plus displays of arm talent:
1:01
2:14
2:42
3:03
3:10
3:34
4:29
5:21
5:38
6:53
11:03
11:19

Improvisation: -

Plus progression/cov read:
Over 15 plays where he goes beyond the 1st read. Usually half field but some full: 6:53
8:16
9:20



Movement throw: -

Run instincts: -

Held ball/missed receiver:
4:50
8:00
9:38
10:23
11:34


Off backfoot: 6:39, 6:53

Off target:
2:42
4:50
5:21
5:48
6:36
8:00
8:54
9:20
9:38
10:00
11:34
12:15
12:39


Negative Plays:
7:20
8:00
9:38
10:23
11:34


Tipped: 1:33
5:56
11:29

Play-action: 19 plays

Under center: 7 plays
39s
2:42
3:03
3:34
8:40
10:05
12:15

Classic pocket passer. Throws with consistent fundamentals.
Drop back, balance, ball carriage and delivery are all sound and consistent. Throws a very nice ball and is a confident thrower. Throws with good accuracy and ball placement. Not a power thrower with elite arm strength but can easily make all the throws.

Plays in a 'NFL' style offense with identifiable route concepts and progressions. Goes through progressions to include some full field progression. Can get to his 2nd, 3rd options and backside progression or checkdowns with poise. Had ~7 plays from under center, which is probably going to be the most from any of the top prospects. A polished rhythm drop back passer.

Limited in terms of mobility. Did not avoid sacks or escape from the pocket to extend plays. Did not throw on the move. Didn't bring much to the table this game in terms of playmaking or improvisation.

Made some really good, NFL throws. His bad plays came in bunches mainly starting in the 3rd Q after the pressure/hits/sacks began. Couldn't get the offense going though. Had a bad RZ turnover and 2 other dropped INTs.

A question that crept into my mind from watching his tape and charting this game: why he wasn't more efficient and productive with his passing skillset?

Posted By: dean_fairchild Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 01/22/18 03:33 PM
Hey edromeo can you do a game like that of Mike White at some point, I’d like a second opinion on him and to see if what I’m seeing is truly what I’m seeing? If you don’t have time, that’s fine, if you do thanks much.
Posted By: dean_fairchild Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 01/22/18 03:49 PM
Did you get those accuracy charts from a site? Did that guy do one for Mike White?
Posted By: edromeo Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 01/22/18 06:58 PM
Originally Posted By: dean_fairchild
Hey edromeo can you do a game like that of Mike White at some point, I’d like a second opinion on him and to see if what I’m seeing is truly what I’m seeing? If you don’t have time, that’s fine, if you do thanks much.
I probably won't have time to chart White's games but I will watch his tape at some point. Still working through the current "top" guys.

Any thoughts on the Rosen game chart?

Oh and the accuracy charts: https://twitter.com/NFLFilmStudy/media?lang=en

Ian Wharton on twitter.

I don't think he was one of Mike White.
Posted By: dean_fairchild Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 01/23/18 09:57 PM
I come away with similar takes to what you have.

The kid is just very fundamentally sound and has been since he stepped foot on thecUCLA campus. He looks great throwing the ball and will look great throwing at the combine(if he does indeed throw) and at his pro day.

But I’m completely with you, while I like him, every game I watch I come out of it wanting more. Maybe it’s nit picking, IDK. Just seems like I’m thinking “well he had a decent game but....”. To me he just doesn’t make me think, great. Solid, especially with his fundamentals, but maybe not great. If I had to compare him to the kind of player he might be, I’d have to say Eli Manning, who has won two superbowls but really isn’t an overly spectacular player. Don’t get me wrong I’d take a player with Eli’s success in a heartbeat.
Posted By: edromeo Finally finished Louisville vs FSU - 01/28/18 11:38 PM


Lousiville vs FSU

~32 plays (+ designed runs not charted because well he’s obviously a dynamic runner)

Under pressure plays:
:30
2:12
2:25
4:28
4:42
5:27
5:54
6:19
6:35
7:15
12:49

Muddy pocket:
:30
2:12
2:25
4:28
5:27


Evasion plays:
:40
1:38
2:37
3:11
6:44
9:13
13:16


Plus displays of arm talent:
3:11
4:42
8:00
12:16
12:49
13:04
13:16
13:39
14:52


Improvisation:
5:27
6:44
9:13
13:16

Plus progression/cov read:
5:27
7:03
7:45
13:16
14:52

Movement throw:
4:42
13:16

Run instincts: well duh

Held ball/missed receiver:
5:54
10:15

Off backfoot:
2:12
2:25

Off target:
2:25
5:27
6:35
7:45
10:15

Negative Plays:
5:54
10:15
2:12
2:25

Tipped:
4:28

Play-action:
4:42

Under center:
None

Above average arm strength. Has plenty of arm strength to make all the throws. Quick, clean throwing motion not a full 'over the top' throwing motion can sometimes slip to 3/4 side-arm type motion. Can 'flick' the ball with velocity. Good accuracy, especially on the deep ball. Receivers dropped some balls on him.

Louisville passing game includes identifiable NFL concepts from identifiable NFL formations. It is not a true 'spread' offense like OU, OkSt etc. You can see him usually executing half field reads; he does get through some full field progressions. Did a good job of staying in the pocket didn't bail from the pocket early in this game. Throws from a very narrow base but maintains good balance on his throws. Occasionally executes basic pass drops and throw on time e.g. 3-step from shotgun.

Made some good NFL throws. Didn't make many bad decisions. His negative plays came from missed throws with only a couple bad decisions.

Lamar is the offense for his team.

Creative player. Can an make plays. Can evade pressure. Can throw on the move. Is a dynamic runner.
Posted By: Jester Re: Finally finished Louisville vs FSU - 01/29/18 12:01 AM
Hey Ed, I like this new format better. Thanks for all the hard work
Posted By: edromeo Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 01/29/18 05:23 PM
Originally Posted By: dean_fairchild
I come away with similar takes to what you have.

The kid is just very fundamentally sound and has been since he stepped foot on thecUCLA campus. He looks great throwing the ball and will look great throwing at the combine(if he does indeed throw) and at his pro day.

But I’m completely with you, while I like him, every game I watch I come out of it wanting more. Maybe it’s nit picking, IDK. Just seems like I’m thinking “well he had a decent game but....”. To me he just doesn’t make me think, great. Solid, especially with his fundamentals, but maybe not great. If I had to compare him to the kind of player he might be, I’d have to say Eli Manning, who has won two superbowls but really isn’t an overly spectacular player. Don’t get me wrong I’d take a player with Eli’s success in a heartbeat.

Rosen throws a nice ball, with consistent mechanics. His pro-day is gonna be money.

I'm a QB at heart and youth football and basketball coach. QBs are my soft spot. So I tend to like most of the QB prospects. When it comes to ranking them there is some much criteria to sort out. In regards to Rosen I would like to see more efficiency from a QB with his skillset to be mentioned in the same breath with Andrew Luck and Russell Wilson (barring height) as prospects.

I like your Eli Manning comp for Rosen in terms of passing ability. But Eli had the pedigree, body and took on raising a struggling football program and clean injury history.

I have to take a closer look at some of games but right now I think the difference in their efficiency stems from a mix of athleticism compared to those 2 and questionable decision making at times. BUT maybe he would have attained that efficiency IF he didn't miss half his sophomore season.

--------------------------------------------------------------

To the few interested:

I was thinking about posting some gifs from the 2 QBs I have currently charted. I was thinking of posting some plays from each category...eg: missed throws, improve, 'plus' throws, bad decisions etc.

Thoughts?
Posted By: edromeo Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 01/29/18 05:40 PM
Also which QB next? Darnold, Allen....? Which game?
Posted By: devicedawg Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 01/29/18 06:05 PM
Originally Posted By: edromeo
Also which QB next? Darnold, Allen....? Which game?



Darnold. There appears to be a large consensus in the NFL world that he will be our pick at #1.
Posted By: PastorMarc Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 01/29/18 08:31 PM
Originally Posted By: devicedawg
Originally Posted By: edromeo
Also which QB next? Darnold, Allen....? Which game?



Darnold. There appears to be a large consensus in the NFL world that he will be our pick at #1.


I would be ok with Darnold ...
Posted By: waterdawg Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 01/29/18 09:04 PM
Those two TD's ,( touch pass's ) from Allen should cause some discussion !
Posted By: Razorthorns Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 01/30/18 03:52 AM
It's going to be darnold or mason I think. I think it's most likely mason because they are keeping quiet about him while talking heavily about all the other candidates. It's a perfect trade down scenario where they talk up the trade bait while they sneak in for the pick they wanted all along after picking up some draft picks.
Posted By: edromeo Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 01/30/18 09:45 AM
Sam Darnold vs Western Michigan coming up
Posted By: kwhip Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 01/30/18 10:24 AM
Originally Posted By: Razorthorns
It's going to be darnold or mason I think. I think it's most likely mason because they are keeping quiet about him while talking heavily about all the other candidates. It's a perfect trade down scenario where they talk up the trade bait while they sneak in for the pick they wanted all along after picking up some draft picks.


C'mon Thorns.

I know you love Rudolph, but man we'd be the mockery of the league AGAIN if we took Rudolph at #1.

There's 3 things I'm pretty sure are LOCKS at #1.

We ain't taking Allen and his Consistent INNaccuracy.
We ain't taking Mayfield and his Lack of Size.
We ain't taking Rudolph period.

4th. And this is a HUGE one.

Josh Rosen. I have a REAL hard time getting past these Concussion problems he's had. I don't give a rats ass about his comments or perceived Attitude. It's the Concussion problems.

TWICE he had them and missed time. And that's only the 2 that were actually Reported. Were there more?

That SCARES me away.

It's DARNOLD and don't look back.
Posted By: edromeo Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 01/30/18 10:44 AM
Can the regular draft QB prospect discussion/argument stay in the other threads and keep this thread about film breakdowns?
Posted By: devicedawg Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 01/30/18 12:09 PM
Actually at the moment, I think Mayfield is the favorite to be picked #1. That may change when we talk with Rosen, Darnold, and maybe Rudolph or Jackson. But I would agree Allen is off the list at 1.
Posted By: kwhip Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 01/30/18 12:37 PM
Originally Posted By: edromeo
Sam Darnold vs Western Michigan coming up


While we're all watching Darnold, keep an eye on how well Ronnie Jones II picks up pass rusher.

Potential 2nd Rounder.
Posted By: eotab Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 01/30/18 12:52 PM
mason is a possibility for the 2nd round.

Ed keep the film coming...hard for me watching on phone.
Also I hope dawgs know what to look for. Individual plays are irrelevant you have to see repitition of good or bad.arm strength, look for release is it effortless or does he strain to get mustard on the ball. Footwork does it look natural how does the shoulder line up as QB is mobile...nurse here have to stop.
Posted By: Razorthorns Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 01/30/18 03:36 PM
I seriously doubt Mason last to the second round. At the very least he won't make it beyond the Steelers. Because he is a younger and smarter Big Ben. Definitely better moral character.
Posted By: waterdawg Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 01/30/18 04:07 PM
I'll say it one more time .. This a very good and deep QB class .. There will one big time rush to grab one in the first and second rounds .. Some of yous folks are going to be surprised !
Posted By: Homewood Dog Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 01/30/18 04:17 PM
Agreed. There could be as many as 7 QB's taken in the 1st round. I think that would break the record of 6 taken in 1983 if I remember correctly.
Posted By: waterdawg Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 01/30/18 04:26 PM
Not sure about the number , but a lot of talent will move down in rounds two / three for sure . We are in the Cat Bird seat with our picks in rounds 1 through 3
Posted By: Homewood Dog Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 01/30/18 04:39 PM
Your right about that WD. Someone might like one of the 2nd tier QB's enough to move up in Round 2 to take him. Besides the top 5 QB's there are guys like Rudolph, White and the kid from Richmond moving up the charts. It's a deep and talented QB class. Between now and the draft someone else may open some eyes. It will be interesting to see.
Posted By: dean_fairchild Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 01/31/18 07:51 PM
Your a QB at heart? That’s ironic, I’m a DB at heart. Easiest position for me to evaluate also. Especially if I have good tape or see them play live, gottasee thier hands and eyes. QB the most difficult.
Posted By: edromeo Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 02/03/18 02:43 AM
Originally Posted By: dean_fairchild
Your a QB at heart? That’s ironic, I’m a DB at heart. Easiest position for me to evaluate also. Especially if I have good tape or see them play live, gottasee thier hands and eyes. QB the most difficult.
I like evaluating DBs too. I did some DB breakdowns last year. Look forward to talking DBs with you down the road. 2 under the radar guys I like are Reaves and Duke Dawson.
Posted By: edromeo Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 02/03/18 02:53 AM
Rosen:


Posted By: edromeo Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 02/03/18 02:54 AM
Mayfield:


Posted By: edromeo Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 02/03/18 02:54 AM
Jackson:


Posted By: edromeo Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 02/03/18 02:55 AM
Rosen



Posted By: edromeo Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 02/03/18 02:56 AM
Mayfield


Posted By: edromeo Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 02/03/18 02:56 AM
Jackson


Posted By: Versatile Dog Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 02/03/18 03:07 AM
This is why I despise the cutups and prefer watching the "every throw" videos. Picking and choosing a few plays to show can be very deceiving.
Posted By: dean_fairchild Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 02/03/18 10:48 AM
Have only looked at Josh Jackson, Carlton Davis, Tarvarius McFadden, Kevin Tolliver, Kameron Kelly, Brandon Fayson, and aholton Hill, so far and only briefly, all the bigger corners. Initial thoughts are Jackson is the best, with Davis close behind. Kelly intrigues me, looks like he’s got some good ball skills.

The safeties I’ve looked at, Fitz, Marcus Allen, Quin Blanding, Derwin James, Ronnie Harrison, Kyzer White, Terrell Edmunds, Tre Flowers, Travin Blanchard. Love Kyzer, think he’s underrated as is Edmunds, think Blanding is gonna be a solid guy, along with Allen, James, Blanchard, and Flowers intrigue me, Blanchard especially but he’s had some off the field stuff.

I’ll gave to check out the guys you mentioned, I usually start with the bigger corners and safeties cause that’s what I like, work my way down so to speak. I’ve read the experts don’t think this is a great DB draft but I like a lot of these guys this year.
Posted By: edromeo Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 02/03/18 11:58 AM
Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog
This is why I despise the cutups and prefer watching the "every throw" videos. Picking and choosing a few plays to show can be very deceiving.
Vers the cut-ups ARE the "every throw" videos. They are exactly the same. They show every throw, not every completed pass.

Maybe you haven't read the OP for this thread or followed the games that were posted. But, every pass play, EVERY pass play the QBs (except for Jackson) were involved from those youtube game "every throw" cut-up was already posted, charted and broken down with a time stamp.

Just scroll up to the youtube cut-up of their games. You see the full game chart with EVERY play.

Maybe you didn't realize that every play from those games was charted, but now you do.

Posted By: edromeo Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 02/03/18 12:26 PM
So far ive only looked at D.Ward, Josh Jackson and B. Fayscon from last year.

Ive checked out Allen, Quin Blanding, Derwin James, Ronnie Harrison.

The guys I mentioned before were players from the Senior Bowl that caught my along with Trayvon Henderson. I have some gifs I'm dumping will post some of their 'flash' plays

Are there any specific games of Mike White that you want chop up in your thread?
Posted By: dean_fairchild Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 02/03/18 12:42 PM
He had a rough game when he played Alabama, last season I believe, and a good one ve old dominion. That could be the good vs the bad for him.
Posted By: dean_fairchild Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 02/04/18 01:28 AM
OK ed watched a couple games on your guys here's my take.....

Duke Dawson....Mirrors really well, great feet for it. I see him more as a slot, can he press, IDK. How fast is he? Those are my two questions for him. I know that's not much but I've only watched the Michigan game.

Reaves.... Jeremy or Malik? Assuming Jeremy. Ball skills. played both corner and safety, good in run support, lacks length and possibly athleticism, will make him probably have to stay at safety.
Posted By: edromeo Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 02/10/18 03:30 AM
Im excited for the combine....

it get a chance to see the prospects side by side help break them out of clusters and watch/re-watch and re-rank

going into the combine right now i have the QBs in a close cluster

using comps right now have

in no order

Josh Allen - a bigger armed, bigger bodied, less athletic, less leaderships traits version of Jake Locker a sprinkle of Joe Flacco

Sam Darnold - Andy Dalton, less polished Andrew Luck

Lamar Jackson - bigger, stronger armed, more athletic but less big game tested version DeShaun Watson

Baker Mayfield - bigger, strong armed version of Manziel w/ a sprinkle of Sam Bradford

Josh Rosen - better version of Connor Cook w/ a less athletic mix of Jameis Winston
Posted By: Hammer Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 02/10/18 04:56 AM
I'll Play.

Allen - Roethlisberger
Darnold - Luck
Jackson - Right Handed Vick
Mayfield - Wilson/Brees
Rosen - Eli Manning
Posted By: WooferDawg Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 02/10/18 05:20 AM
Give me Darnold and I will call it a day.
Posted By: Razorthorns Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 02/10/18 10:53 AM
I much prefer Mason =)
Posted By: devicedawg Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 02/10/18 02:20 PM

Allen - Jeff George/Rex Grossman
Darnold - Matt Ryan/Tony Romo
Jackson - Kordell Stewart/Deshaun Watson
Mayfield - Jeff Garcia/Drew Brees
Rosen - David Carr/Alex Smith
Posted By: edromeo Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 02/11/18 04:13 PM
Originally Posted By: devicedawg

Allen - Jeff George/Rex Grossman
Darnold - Matt Ryan/Tony Romo
Jackson - Kordell Stewart/Deshaun Watson
Mayfield - Jeff Garcia/Drew Brees
Rosen - David Carr/Alex Smith
Interesting comps....not sure if serious but I'll bite...


These are the comps I don't get...
Allen-Rex Grossman
Jackson-Kordell
Rosen-David Carr/Alex Smith
Posted By: Jester Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 02/11/18 04:26 PM
Since we are all doing comps, I'll play:

Allen - EJ Manuel
Darnold - Dan Fouts
Jackson - Vince Young
Mayfield - Case Keenum
Rosen - Eli Manning
Posted By: edromeo Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 02/11/18 05:34 PM
Originally Posted By: Jester
Since we are all doing comps, I'll play:

Allen - EJ Manuel
Darnold - Dan Fouts
Jackson - Vince Young
Mayfield - Case Keenum
Rosen - Eli Manning
I would be curious to hear the reasons behind your comps for Allen and Darnold
Posted By: Jester Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 02/11/18 05:45 PM
Allen and EJ
Both Big physical specimens with cannon arms and accuracy issues. EJ couldn't read a defense either and I don't get the sense that Allen can.

Darnold and Fouts
Both have that stocky build and are accurate. They both throw the medium sideline pass beautifully. And they both fumble a lot.
Posted By: Jester Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 02/11/18 05:47 PM
I'd also like to add that I think Vince Young was a pretty good Qb and could have been highly successful if he could have stayed out of his own head.
Posted By: edromeo Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 02/11/18 05:51 PM
I guess I don't remember EJ as having Allen's type of arm

I think Darnold is way more mobile/playmaker then I recall Fourts being
Posted By: Jester Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 02/11/18 06:01 PM
I remember EJ having a cannon. Allen's might be stronger but I always find arm strength the most difficult thing to evaluate on TV/video. SO much different in person.

Darnold is more mobile that Fouts was.

I guess I am going by the feel of how they played the game
Posted By: dean_fairchild Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 02/12/18 03:44 PM
I’ll try.......

Allen - Favre, both had not great stats in college but big time arm talent and potential, country boys, good work ethics, willing to work.
Darnold - Bortles, big, athletic, but need to shorten there delivery. I do think Darnold is more accurate coming out of college though. But am concerned about the release, watched more of him and slowing the tape down it’s even longer then I thought.
Jackson - this is an easy one for me, Vick. To me they are just very close.
Mayfield - this one is a struggle for me, he isn’t Brees, he isn’t Manziel, there are similarities but not close enough for me. I think right now the closest one for me would be Andy Dalton. I know Andy is taller but I think they play very similar.
Rosen - this one is also easy for me, Sam Bradford, both do everything right when throwing the ball but have durability concerns.
Posted By: devicedawg Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 02/12/18 04:27 PM
Quote:


These are the comps I don't get...
Allen-Rex Grossman
Jackson-Kordell
Rosen-David Carr/Alex Smith




Grossman and Allen, known gunslinger mentalities with very strong arms who lack consistency and accuracy. They like to throw deep and it looks good when completed. Allen is more mobile and possibly a better overall prospect than Grossman. Favre wasn't known as being mobile and I've seen comps to him.

Stewart was Jackson before the type of QB became more "popular." I think you could make the argument that Jackson is the most athletic QB in the draft much like Stewart was in his time. Similar in size, Jackson has been mentioned in a sentence with "position change." Jackson could thrive in a "slash" type role.

Recently read a scouting report of Carr and it sounded like Rosen's of today. Similar in size, although Rosen perhaps a bit thinner. Both known as being able to read the defense, find secondary targets, quick release, leads the receiver, have nice touch on short passes, but both have propensity for batted balls due to lower trajectory and are pocket passers without leaving the pocket to extend plays. Rosen may take less sacks as he tends throw the ball away more while Carr would take the sack. Although I wouldn't be surprised if Rosen leads the league in sacks at some point. Rosen in the discussion as the #1 pick, Carr drafted #1.
Posted By: PitDAWG Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 02/12/18 04:39 PM
I would certainly agree with you about Rosens lack of mobility outside the pocket. However, he does seem to be able to move well within the pocket to help extend plays.
Posted By: Razorthorns Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 02/12/18 04:46 PM
Mason Rudolph - The next Big Ben. He will end up as a top 10 QB in the NFL after a somewhat slow rookie year. He is the most accurate deep ball passer to come out of college in over a decade. He is also the one QB most teams have their eye on. How do I know this? Because no teams are talking about him. They are trying to not draw attention to him.

When it comes to QBs the one they talk about most and the one they talk about least are usually the two qbs teams want the most. The rest of the talk is used for distracting dumb owners to pick one on impulse. Think Johnny Manziel. Rookie owner fell hook, line, and sinker for a QB everyone else knew was damaged goods.
Posted By: devicedawg Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 02/12/18 04:47 PM
Yes.

And I'm not necessarily comparing mechanics. Rosen seems pretty sound mechanically. Carr has a bit of a funky delivery. But I think Rosen has more batted balls than even Mayfield, I'd be curious to know the exact stats, but I felt the 6'4" quarterback struggled with batted balls moreso than the 6'0" quarterback... but I don't know if that's entirely true as I never actually counted or looked it up.
Posted By: edromeo Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 02/13/18 02:15 AM
Originally Posted By: devicedawg
Grossman and Allen, known gunslinger mentalities with very strong arms who lack consistency and accuracy. They like to throw deep and it looks good when completed. Allen is more mobile and possibly a better overall prospect than Grossman. Favre wasn't known as being mobile and I've seen comps to him.
I don't recall Grossman having a big arm at all. I had to suffer throw watching him play for Washington...he certainly liked to chuck it deep but didn't have a strong arm....no where near the same category as Allen.
Favre was very mobile.

Originally Posted By: devicedawg
Stewart was Jackson before the type of QB became more "popular." I think you could make the argument that Jackson is the most athletic QB in the draft much like Stewart was in his time. Similar in size, Jackson has been mentioned in a sentence with "position change." Jackson could thrive in a "slash" type role.
I remember watching Colorado and Kordell Stewart was an option QB that played in an option offense....wasn't in the same ballpark as passer as Jackson.

Originally Posted By: dean_fairchild
I’ll try.......

Allen - Favre, both had not great stats in college but big time arm talent and potential, country boys, good work ethics, willing to work.
Darnold - Bortles, big, athletic, but need to shorten there delivery. I do think Darnold is more accurate coming out of college though. But am concerned about the release, watched more of him and slowing the tape down it’s even longer then I thought.
Jackson - this is an easy one for me, Vick. To me they are just very close.
Mayfield - this one is a struggle for me, he isn’t Brees, he isn’t Manziel, there are similarities but not close enough for me. I think right now the closest one for me would be Andy Dalton. I know Andy is taller but I think they play very similar.
Rosen - this one is also easy for me, Sam Bradford, both do everything right when throwing the ball but have durability concerns.
Really like your comps.
Posted By: edromeo Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 02/13/18 02:40 AM
Originally Posted By: edromeo
Y'all can laugh...this is mine from last year:
Originally Posted By: edromeo
QB Eval-- Acc-----Arm----Ath/Esc-----Drop/Foot-----Exp-----Play-----Prod/Eff----Size----Thr/Mot—Pro/NFL
Trev.B-----4-------4---------4-------------3-------------5---------4----------5---------2----------5----------3.5
C.Cook----4--------3.5-------3-------------5------------4---------2-----------4---------4---------4----------5
Goff-------4--------4----------3-------------3------------5---------3-----------5---------3----------5--------3.5
Hack-------2-------4----------3-------------4------------4---------2.5---------3---------5---------3----------4
Lynch------3-------5----------4-------------3------------4---------4-----------4---------4---------4----------3
Dak.P------3-------4----------5-------------3------------4---------5-----------4---------4---------4----------3
Wentz------4------4.5---------4-------------4------------2---------3-----------3---------5---------4---------4

Just in case it wasn't clear the QBs are in alphabetical order not in ranking.

If its easier to read here was the sum of each QBs grades; although the score in each category for me is more important then the sum.

Trevone=39.5
C.Cook=38.5
Goff=38.5
Hacken=34.5
P.Lynch=38
Prescott=39
Wentz=37.5



Acc-Accuracy
Arm Strength-Velocity

Athleticism/Escapability-Combination of speed, agility and strength used to escape or elude sacks and pass rush

Dropback/Footwork- Ability to execute a 3-5-7 step drop rhythm passing offense and also the pass drop itself: get away from center, set up, weight transfer and ability to reset when moving indside the pocket.

Experience
-- 1 year as starter + less than two years on bench = inadequate
- 1 year as starter + at least two on bench = below average (Matt Sanchez)
- 2 years as starter + at least 1 on bench = average (Sam Bradford/Blaine Gabbert)
- 3 years as starter = above average (Matt Stafford)
- 4 years as starter = elite (Colt McCoy)

Playmaking-Not just making a play on the run but when a play breaks down and the QB uses a mix of improvisation/decision making and athleticism to make a play.
Display the ability to turn a possible negative play into a positive. What can they do after the given play fails? (broken play, good coverage, pass protection breakdown etc)

Production/Efficiency-Based not only on raw stats and efficiency rating but, trying to consider and account for differences in overall team talent (pass protection, WR, number of draftable players on offense etc). e.g. Andrew Luck would be handicapped for playing behind one of the best OL in football for the past 2 season and only being sacked 12 times combined or Scott Tolzien for having 2 1,000 yard rushers in the same season.

Production baseline average baseline= 60% completions, 750+ attempts, 40+ passing touchdowns.

Size-

Throwing Motion- Mechanics/quick release/variety angles/consistency

Pro/NFL-Pro-readiness/amount of NFL concepts in college offense



Scale:

1-does not demonstrate given ability
2-below average
3- average
4-above average
5-elite

Here's
Posted By: edromeo Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 02/13/18 03:37 AM
Early eval 2018 raw scores unweighted (subject to change)

QB Eval----Acc-----Arm----Ath/Esc-----Drop/Foot-----Exp-----Play-----Prod/Eff----Size----Thr/Mot—Pro/NFL
Allen-------2.5-------5---------4-------------4------------3--------4----------2----------5---------5----------3----(37.5)
Darnold-----4--------3---------4-------------4------------3--------4----------4----------4---------2----------3----(35)
Jackson-----3--------4---------5-------------3-----------3.5-------5----------5----------3---------3----------3-----(37.5)
Mayfield-----4--------3---------4------------3------------5---------4----------4----------2---------3----------4----(36)
Rosen-------5--------4---------2-------------5------------3--------1-----------3----------3---------5----------5-----(36)
Posted By: devicedawg Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 02/13/18 03:41 AM
I guess I'm getting old... haha.

Yes, Grossman had a pretty strong arm, perhaps not the strongest as is the case with Allen, but in the top 10 of the league at the time nonetheless. Known as a gunslinger. His issue was accuracy as is the case with Allen.

Freeman is another decent comp to Allen I feel.
Posted By: edromeo Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 02/13/18 03:45 AM
Not really worth the argument but I think you are misremembering Rex Grossman's armstrength or should i say lack there of..

Good call on Freeman as an Allen comp though, didn't think of that one
Posted By: Hammer Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 02/13/18 04:12 AM
In my opinion,

Darnold has better than average arm strength.
Mayfield is the most accurate of the bunch.

Allen likened to Grossman and Freeman - fascinating.

Grossman really - The guy was 6'1" and had nowhere near the arm strength of Allen.
Posted By: devicedawg Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 02/13/18 01:10 PM
I wasn't concerned much with height when I compared Allen. I think that's where people run into issues with comps for Mayfield. He's really in a league of his own, but I think he's most like Brees.

Back to Grossman.... I didn't dig deep, I was thinking of strong armed inaccurate QBs with mild success and went from there. Grossman is still in that group for me.

I went back to find anything that could support or debunk my claims. I read a few different reports. Apparently he was considered having a strong arm coming out of Florida, but reading his days in Washington he was considered not to have a strong arm. Maybe something changed for him?

Reading this scouting report of Grossman, I'm not sure it's necessarily a bad comp, but it's not as good as I thought...

Danielson Scouting Report
Posted By: HotBYoungTurk Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 02/13/18 01:12 PM
I still think the best comparison for Mayfield is Colt McCoy. I'll give advantage Mayfield in the arm strength category, but other than that.. roughly the same player.
Posted By: Jester Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 02/13/18 01:59 PM
Here is my belief on Colt McCoy with no objective evidence to prove or disprove:

In Colt's final game, Alabama knocked him out of the game with an injury to his right shoulder. It is my personal belief that Colt never fully regained his arm strength from that injury and that loss of arm strength really impacted his career.
Posted By: Bull_Dawg Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 02/13/18 02:18 PM
Originally Posted By: HotBYoungTurk
I still think the best comparison for Mayfield is Colt McCoy. I'll give advantage Mayfield in the arm strength category, but other than that.. roughly the same player.


I think Favre is probably the best comparison. But, I doubt he has the durability to survive the punishment he'll take or the cannon to get away with many of the throws Favre made. So basically, he plays like Favre, but most likely lacks what made Favre special.
Posted By: devicedawg Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 02/13/18 02:31 PM
Originally Posted By: HotBYoungTurk
I still think the best comparison for Mayfield is Colt McCoy. I'll give advantage Mayfield in the arm strength category, but other than that.. roughly the same player.




Other than being under 6'2" what do McCoy and Mayfield have in common?
Posted By: Versatile Dog Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 02/13/18 02:34 PM
You think Mayfield is more accurate than Rosen? If so, did you just use stats?

Because throwing to huge windows is not even close to throwing into tighter windows. It's also not the same as leading receivers into YAC.
Posted By: Dawg_LB Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 02/13/18 04:07 PM
I've been reading, watching and etc on mainly Darnold, Allen, Rosen and Mayfield.

Long story short, I don't know which one I'd pick. I like this draft's QB class. Teams needing a QB will want to trade up imo, so we stand to get our QB, trade, and still get a playmaker like Barkley or someone with extra picks..

Appreciate all the links and etc given here.
Posted By: Hammer Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 02/13/18 07:49 PM
Let me expound on that. I think they are both highly accurate and I recognize that they ran entirely different offenses and that spread offenses lead to significantly higher completion percentages than pro-style offenses (Stats). However, even in often time huge windows to throw, Mayfield usually hits his receivers in stride leading to YAC and he was very accurate on the run as well. Call it even, in my opinion.
Posted By: edromeo Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 02/14/18 01:38 AM
https://mobile.twitter.com/PatrickClaybon/media

This guys media feed is must watch, its filled with good video cut-ups of the QBs prospects
Posted By: edromeo 2018 NFL.com Draft Tracker QBs - 02/23/18 07:17 PM
http://www.nfl.com/draft/2018/tracker#dt-tabs:dt-by-position

HT WT COLLEGE GRADE WATCH

DARNOLD, SAM* QB 6'4" 220 USC 7.1
ROSEN, JOSH* QB 6'4" 218 UCLA 6.1
MAYFIELD, BAKER QB 6'1" 220 Oklahoma 6.0
JACKSON, LAMAR* QB 6'3" 200 Louisville 6.0
ALLEN, JOSH QB 6'5" 233 Wyoming 5.9
RUDOLPH, MASON QB 6'5" 230 Oklahoma St. 5.6
FALK, LUKE QB 6'4" 225 Washington St. 5.6
WHITE, MIKE QB 6'4" 225 Western Kentucky 5.6
Posted By: edromeo Re: 2018 NFL.com Draft Tracker QBs - 02/23/18 07:19 PM
I posted in a QB thread that got locked:

https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/draft-2018-nfl-draft-qb-rankings-after-week-14













Posted By: CalDawg Re: 2018 NFL.com Draft Tracker QBs - 02/23/18 08:38 PM
I think it's only fair to point out that these rankings are only for week 14, not through week fourteen, or for the season. (IIUC)
Posted By: edromeo Re: 2018 NFL.com Draft Tracker QBs - 02/23/18 09:58 PM
Originally Posted By: CalDawg
I think it's only fair to point out that these rankings are only for week 14, not through week fourteen, or for the season. (IIUC)
It's crazy that I feel trepidation correcting you here but the ranking posted are in fact through week 14.

No disrespect intended, its in the link

https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/draft-2018-nfl-draft-qb-rankings-after-week-14
Posted By: Razorthorns Re: 2018 NFL.com Draft Tracker QBs - 02/24/18 03:02 AM
The only stat that isn't relative in my OPINION is the time to throw because a lot of those can be messed with depending on how they watch things.

Anyways Time to Throw to me is the hallmark stat that directly reflects how fast they process information. The closer to 2.5 they are the better they often transition to the NFL because that is avg NFL throw time.

Of course I'd like to know if the way they got that info is reliable because that is a lot of snaps to time on video that might or might not be in real time and I doubt they were there at each game to time these QBs live each game.
Posted By: devicedawg Re: 2018 NFL.com Draft Tracker QBs - 02/24/18 01:50 PM
Where's my second round guy Lauletta? No love?
Posted By: edromeo Re: 2018 NFL.com Draft Tracker QBs - 02/24/18 02:25 PM
Originally Posted By: Razorthorns
The only stat that isn't relative in my OPINION is the time to throw because a lot of those can be messed with depending on how they watch things.
I don't even understand what this means? Are you referring to PFF stats from there QB ranking cards?

And what do you mean when you say their stats are 'relative' except for time to throw?

Do you really think stats meticulously gathered by a professional service used by both NFL teams and NFL broadcasts is puts out subjective stats?

I don't get it.

Quote:
Anyways Time to Throw to me is the hallmark stat that directly reflects how fast they process information. The closer to 2.5 they are the better they often transition to the NFL because that is avg NFL throw time.
Actually 2.5 is not the average time to throw in the NFL.
https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/final-nfl-qb-rankings-by-pff-player-grades-2017

I think its important to consider context for any stat before ascribing "thee" skill that you think it isolates to it. Rarely does any football stat reliably isolate an individual trait because football is a team/system sport with 11 people working in concert to produce the end result.

And time to throw is no different.

I do agree that the ability to process information quickly plays a role in time to throw but I think scheme plays a much bigger role. Scheme takes into account the pass protection, the better the pass protection the longer the time to throw can be due to the ability to call deeper drops 5 and 7-step drops that take longer whereas a team with poor pass protection may be forced to call more 3-step drop and quick game designed to get the ball out quick to mitigate poor pass blocking.

The same applies to receivers. If the receivers can separate quickly, then the QB can get the ball out quickly on slants etc. But if the receivers need time/distance to separate then the pass plays will take longer because.

Or the OC simply might prefer a downfield passing attack based on air yards more then its based on yards after catch.

Then you have to factor in whether or not the QB extends plays. The average of the time to throw can go up when the QB extends the play a few times per game. A couple Russell Wilson or Aaron Rodgers scramble plays a game has them at 3.14 and 2.78 respectively.


Quote:
Of course I'd like to know if the way they got that info is reliable because that is a lot of snaps to time on video that might or might not be in real time and I doubt they were there at each game to time these QBs live each game.
Why would you think it the source of their information is unreliable? Again, PFF is professionally recognized and utilized data service used by college and NFL teams, sport media/new organizations and the actual NFL broadcast coverages.
Posted By: W84NxtYrAgain Re: 2018 NFL.com Draft Tracker QBs - 02/24/18 04:57 PM
Originally Posted By: devicedawg
Where's my second round guy Lauletta? No love?
FWIW, on FirstPick I have taken him in the 7th and gotten a D grade. They recently re-ranked and he's now disappearing in the 3rd/4th rounds. White is similar, C- in the 7th up to disappearing in the 2nd/3rd.
Posted By: edromeo Re: 2018 NFL.com Draft Tracker QBs - 02/24/18 05:00 PM
First pick gets more accurate the more people use it.
I believe there prospect rankings adjust to how/where people drafting on their site select them.
Posted By: Glw12 Re: 2018 NFL.com Draft Tracker QBs - 02/24/18 05:53 PM
Everyone has an ego. Proving they are smarter than everybody else is a game and a huge part of the draft. The combine just further clouds the common sense needed select get the right players. Hopefully Dorsey and company use what the have seen watching film and make this our greatest draft ever.
Posted By: MemphisBrownie Re: 2018 NFL.com Draft Tracker QBs - 02/24/18 06:15 PM
PFF loves Mayfield.
Posted By: Hammer Re: 2018 NFL.com Draft Tracker QBs - 02/24/18 06:24 PM
So does devicedawg.
Posted By: Razorthorns Re: 2018 NFL.com Draft Tracker QBs - 02/24/18 07:07 PM
Originally Posted By: edromeo
Originally Posted By: Razorthorns
The only stat that isn't relative in my OPINION is the time to throw because a lot of those can be messed with depending on how they watch things.
I don't even understand what this means? Are you referring to PFF stats from there QB ranking cards?

And what do you mean when you say their stats are 'relative' except for time to throw?

Do you really think stats meticulously gathered by a professional service used by both NFL teams and NFL broadcasts is puts out subjective stats?

I don't get it.

Quote:
Anyways Time to Throw to me is the hallmark stat that directly reflects how fast they process information. The closer to 2.5 they are the better they often transition to the NFL because that is avg NFL throw time.
Actually 2.5 is not the average time to throw in the NFL.
https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/final-nfl-qb-rankings-by-pff-player-grades-2017

I think its important to consider context for any stat before ascribing "thee" skill that you think it isolates to it. Rarely does any football stat reliably isolate an individual trait because football is a team/system sport with 11 people working in concert to produce the end result.

And time to throw is no different.

I do agree that the ability to process information quickly plays a role in time to throw but I think scheme plays a much bigger role. Scheme takes into account the pass protection, the better the pass protection the longer the time to throw can be due to the ability to call deeper drops 5 and 7-step drops that take longer whereas a team with poor pass protection may be forced to call more 3-step drop and quick game designed to get the ball out quick to mitigate poor pass blocking.

The same applies to receivers. If the receivers can separate quickly, then the QB can get the ball out quickly on slants etc. But if the receivers need time/distance to separate then the pass plays will take longer because.

Or the OC simply might prefer a downfield passing attack based on air yards more then its based on yards after catch.

Then you have to factor in whether or not the QB extends plays. The average of the time to throw can go up when the QB extends the play a few times per game. A couple Russell Wilson or Aaron Rodgers scramble plays a game has them at 3.14 and 2.78 respectively.


Quote:
Of course I'd like to know if the way they got that info is reliable because that is a lot of snaps to time on video that might or might not be in real time and I doubt they were there at each game to time these QBs live each game.
Why would you think it the source of their information is unreliable? Again, PFF is professionally recognized and utilized data service used by college and NFL teams, sport media/new organizations and the actual NFL broadcast coverages.


No each team aquires its own information. It's very hard to find consistent statistics across major stat providers. NFL.com, espn, cbs, pff, etc don't have universal stat information even on things like completion percentage. I always find it aggravating doing analytics and having different results depending on which sites I gather info from.

pff is not any better than nfl.com they just have their own flavor of stat tracking. I am not saying they do a bad job at it but everything should be taken with a grain of salt.

on the 2.5 let me rephrase that. To me its the ideal time a QB should hold the ball. At 3 seconds and longer things start to really break down in protection. Sure sometimes a pass takes longer due to many issues but I want to draft a QB who can process and get rid of the ball at that speed because it's a good sign they will adjust well to nfl game speed. It's not the end all but its a darn good sign.
Posted By: waterdawg Re: 2018 NFL.com Draft Tracker QBs - 02/24/18 07:45 PM
Naked eye told me that Ferguson has one fast release .
Posted By: edromeo Re: 2018 NFL.com Draft Tracker QBs - 02/24/18 08:41 PM
I couldn't disagree more.
I don't consider it a matter of opinion either.

PFF is unquestionably better then nfl.com.
Hearing you say that makes me believe you don't u understand what they do.

Your post is very puzzling to me. On one hand you dismiss their metrics and say they should be taken with a grain of salt but then turn around and say that their time to throw metric can be used to assess how an individual QB processes information.

To each his own......strikes me as bit hypocritical though.

Originally Posted By: Razorthorns
.....on the 2.5 let me rephrase that. To me its the ideal time a QB should hold the ball.
Just for reference some of the QBs that take longer your 2.5 benchmark:
Tom Brady
Matt Ryan
Carson Wentz
Russell Wilson
Alex Smith
Jimmy Garappolo
Aaron Rodgers
Tyrod Taylor
Marcus Mariota
Matt Stafford
Jamies Winston
Dak Prescott
Blake Bortles
Jared Goff
Kirk Cousins
Mitch Trubisky
Cam Newton
Deshaun Watson
Jacoby Brissett
Nick Foles







Posted By: hitt Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 02/24/18 09:15 PM
Film breakdown, Mayfield slow out of blocks, cops make clean takedown....his best verbal...Are you kidding me? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ezjlgpg-9iw How many NFL QBs run from cops cuz they're drunk...name one who grabs his crotch who represents an NFL team/ city. I'd pass for sure, judgement....GO Browns!!!!
Posted By: devicedawg Re: 2018 NFL.com Draft Tracker QBs - 02/25/18 08:49 AM
I believe Lauletta will be drafted day 2.
Posted By: W84NxtYrAgain Re: 2018 NFL.com Draft Tracker QBs - 02/25/18 09:28 AM
Originally Posted By: devicedawg
I believe Lauletta will be drafted day 2.
I agree. He impressed at the Senior Bowl, and if he does well at the combine, I see him going as early as round 2.
Posted By: 8Taylor2 Re: 2018 NFL.com Draft Tracker QBs - 02/25/18 09:38 PM
Hey guys, I am new here. I apologize if this has been discussed a lot here, but I was curious, do ya'll think the Browns could pass on taking a QB in the first round?

I think all of these QBs have some question marks. While I definitely think some of them will be good, none of them seem to be a sure thing. With the Browns history, can they afford to take that chance at #1 overall, or maybe #4 overall?

I was just wondering, what do ya'll think the possibility is that the Browns sign a guy like Cousins, or if that fails, try to find a stop gap QB like McCarron. If they take that route, they can draft Barkley and Fitzpatrick, while taking a bit more time to develop Kizer. If in a year, its still not looking promising, then target a QB again next year.

Do ya'll view that as a possibility or do you think the Browns are definitely going to get their guy this year in the draft?

Thanks!
Posted By: Dawg_LB Re: 2018 NFL.com Draft Tracker QBs - 02/25/18 09:39 PM
Welcome aboard!!!!!
Posted By: 8Taylor2 Re: 2018 NFL.com Draft Tracker QBs - 02/25/18 09:41 PM
Thanks man!

Full disclosure though, I'm not actually a Browns fan, but I would like to see them do good. I think ya'll have a very bright future with last years draft class, plus this years coming up. Ya'll definitely seem to be heading in the right direction, which is great.
Posted By: W84NxtYrAgain Re: 2018 NFL.com Draft Tracker QBs - 02/25/18 10:30 PM
Welcome 8Taylor2. The answer to your question is that all of the permeations and possibilities have been dissected and discussed all over the board. In this forum there are threads (sometimes multiple threads) for each of the draft possibilities, and the the "Pure Football" forum there are multiple threads about the FA and trade possibilities.

But possibly the best place to get a quick feel of the board is 2 threads; "User Name record of Number 1 pick wish ?" in this forum has a running ballot for what most of the regular posters want to do with the first pick; and in the Pure Football forum; "What Is Your plan?" is a good thread to read what everyone's overall plan for FA and the draft would be.
Posted By: Jester Re: 2018 NFL.com Draft Tracker QBs - 02/25/18 10:35 PM
It's exactly because of our history with Qb's that we hav to take a Qb with the #1 or #4 pick.

Except for Couch we haven't taken a Qb in the top half of the 1st round.
Our failed selections have been at #22 (Quinn, Weeden and Manziel) in the 1st round or we hoped to luck into someone in the later rounds. We haven't taken the first Qb in a draft either (again except for Couch).

We now have the opportunity to get out Qb of choice in a talented Qb draft.
We have guys who have shown that they know how to talent evaluate - for the 1st time since the return.
If we pass on Qb this year, who knows when we will have this kind of opportunity again.

In my mind we should take a Qb #1 overall, but if not we need to take one at #4.
Posted By: 8Taylor2 Re: 2018 NFL.com Draft Tracker QBs - 02/25/18 10:38 PM
Thank you! I actually did read the "Number 1 pick wish" thread a little bit, but a lot of that seemed to indicate the Browns would take a QB at #4 if not at #1. At least from what I saw.
Posted By: 8Taylor2 Re: 2018 NFL.com Draft Tracker QBs - 02/25/18 10:40 PM
That definitely makes some sense.

Thanks for the opinions!

One reason I was thinking this is with the reports the Browns tried to trade for Alex Smith, but that obviously would have been more of a stop gap guy. If they were trying to get Smith, would they have still gone QB?
Posted By: Hammer Re: 2018 NFL.com Draft Tracker QBs - 02/25/18 10:41 PM
We could have only hoped.
Posted By: 8Taylor2 Re: 2018 NFL.com Draft Tracker QBs - 02/25/18 10:45 PM
Haha yea, I definitely thought that would have been a weird move for ya'll.

It was a weird move for the Redskins too, but yea.
Posted By: W84NxtYrAgain Re: 2018 NFL.com Draft Tracker QBs - 02/25/18 10:45 PM
I think if you read the other thread, and read the 2-3 'Cousins' threads, you'll see that many, if not most, on the board agree that our best course would be to sign Cousins. The problem with that plan is that Cousins has to agree, and the odds seem to be against that.

(for the record, I'm all in on drafting Darnold or Rosen with a preference for Darnold.)
Posted By: edromeo 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 02/25/18 11:17 PM
Welcome to the board!

Full disclosure I visited this board just like you are looking for information (fantasy football and podcast show) and keeping track of Robert Griffin. I ended up sticking around.

You can probably find the answers you're looking for in the other threads like other posters have said. My ideal would be to sign Nick Foles, but he's not even available yet. Personally if I was drafting for the Browns I would listen to offers for both pick #1 and #4. I think the QBs in the class are all about the same and none jumps out to me as a must have at pick #1.

But, that's what I would do...I think they'll take Darnold at #1 though and keep their fingers crossed that Saquan makes it back to them at #4.

Anyhow....this thread, or at least the pie in the sky hope for this thread, was to be purely a film based discussion of the 2018 QB draft prospects. Check out some of the earlier posts in this thread if you have time.

If you stick around would be interested in any film based takes you have on the QBs.

Cheers!
Posted By: eotab Re: 2018 NFL.com Draft Tracker QBs - 02/25/18 11:23 PM
Taylor...
Accordibg to Joe Thoma we are passing on Cousins. We wish to spend the bug bucks on our #1 pick.

AJ...seems like a strong possibility for us to go for.

We will utulize our #1 pick on our franchise QB. So to answer your question we will pick QB.
As for our History. Only Tim Couch was overall #1. Our bad history with first round picks have been in the later first rounds so we will make the pick we have not made since 1999.

Welcome to the board.
Posted By: YTownBrownsFan Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 02/26/18 09:18 PM
I figured this could go here, since it is mostly about the QBs.

Will Hue Jackson have more say in the QBs and other questions for the Browns at the 2018 NFL Combine | cleveland.com
http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2018/02/will_hue_jackson_have_more_say.html#incart_m-rpt-1


Will Hue Jackson have more say in the QBs and other combine questions

The Browns head to Indianapolis for the 2018 NFL Scouting Combine this week with a new general manager in John Dorsey, a new offensive coordinator in Todd Haley and a new personnel consultant in Scot McCloughan.

With six picks in the first 65 of the draft — including No. 1 and No. 4 overall — it’s like the Browns’ Super Bowl again.
For the fifth time in the last seven years, the Browns head into the draft with two first-round picks, and for the sixth time, they have at least one top-10 pick. They also have the No. 1 pick for the second straight year, and a chance to transform the franchise with a star player.

This year, it’s all about the quarterbacks, with top prospects such as USC’s Sam Darnold, UCLA’s Josh Rosen, Wyoming’s Josh Allen and Oklahoma’s Baker Mayfield headlining the field and in the mix for the Browns at No. 1.

The Browns will also consider elite prospects such as Penn State running back Saquon Barkley, North Carolina State edge-rusher Bradley Chubb, and Alabama defensive back Minkah Fitzpatrick, most likely with their No. 4 pick.


1. Will Dorsey draft the QB that Jackson wants?
In his two seasons with Sashi Brown, Jackson didn’t have much say in who the Browns acquired or drafted at quarterback. Brown traded away the No. 2 overall pick in 2016 despite the fact Brown liked Carson Wentz over Jared Goff in that draft. Brown also drafted Cody Kessler in the third round with almost no input from Jackson or then top offensive assistant Pep Hamilton.

Last offseason, Jackson pushed hard for Jimmy Garoppolo and AJ McCarron to no avail. When the Browns lost Garoppolo to the 49ers at the trade deadline, Jackson appealed to Jimmy Haslam to trade for McCarron, and Brown didn’t execute the trade in time. In the 2017 draft, some members of the front office wanted Mitch Trubisky over Myles Garrett at No. 1, and they ultimately agreed on DeShone Kizer at No. 52 after trading away from Deshaun Watson at No 12.

This year, the Browns must agree on a veteran QB to likely start right away, and reach a consensus on one of the rookies, from the pool of Darnold, Rosen, Allen, Mayfield, and depending on how things go in free agency, Lamar Jackson and Mason Rudolph.
All signs point to Jackson, who will take the combine podium Wednesday at 9 a.m., having a much bigger voice in his QB this season.

2. How will Dorsey run this show?
Dorsey, who has final say over all roster decisions, has surrounded himself with a strong supporting cast in assistant GM Eliot Wolf, Vice President of Player Personnel Alonzo Highsmith, and McCloughan. He also still has Chief Strategy Officer Paul DePodesta and Vice President of Player Personnel Andrew Berry from Sashi Brown’s staff. The Browns have significantly upgraded their scouting ability, and are shifting away from the analytics-based approach.

Questions for Dorsey include:
How much will he take into account what the coaches need to run their schemes?

How much will he rely on McCloughan, who could join the team long-term if this draft goes well?

If Dorsey and his group like a quarterback and Jackson likes another, who wins? McCloughan is already on record as saying he loves Mayfield, and Dorsey has watched most of his games and likes him. But enough to draft him No. 1? Jackson, on the other hand, doesn’t generally like 6-foot QBs.
Would Dorsey be willing to trade the No. 4 pick if they get their QB at No. 1?

With an overhauled coaching staff and front office, it will take some time for this crew to figure out how to best work together.

3. Sam Darnold's turnovers
If the draft were tomorrow, Darnold would have a good chance to be taken No. 1 by the Browns, but it’s still fairly early in the process, and the Browns must determine why Darnold turned the ball over so much at USC.

In two seasons as a starter, the 20-year-old threw 22 interceptions and lost 14 of his 21 fumbles in 27 games — more than one an outing. Three of those turnovers came against Ohio State in the Cotton Bowl, on a pick-six and two lost fumbles.

“The biggest 'if' for me with Darnold is the turnovers,” NFL Network draft analyst Mike Mayock told 92.3 The Fan last week. “He’s got more fumbles than any other quarterback I’ve seen in recent history, and that, by the way, goes back to high school. He fumbled the ball a bunch in high school, and it continued at USC.

“Some of that you can cure. The fumbles in the pocket, the strip sacks, those kind of things, he’s got a tendency to keep his off hand, his left hand, off the ball. It needs to be on the ball. You can learn how to do that in an NFL pocket, however, he’s a bit of a gunslinger. He makes some bad decisions. He makes some bad throws.”

Darnold’s hand measurement at the Combine will be key, with the threshold for most teams somewhere around 9.1 or 9.2 inches. He checks off a lot of boxes, but also started only two seasons at USC, which makes the projection tough.

4. Josh Rosen's issues
When it comes to the Browns, Rosen must address a report by ESPN’s Adam Schefter in December that he’d prefer to play for the Giants over the Browns. To this point, Rosen has done nothing to dispel that report. If the Browns have a comfort level that he’d be "all-in" here, he’ll remain in the mix for the No. 1 pick. But the Browns must also have a comfort level that he can move well enough to escape pressure and be scheme-versatile.

He also has some injury concerns, including multiple concussions and a shoulder injury. But some believe he’s the prototypical NFL QB.

“Nobody throws a prettier ball,” Mayock said. “Nobody is a more natural thrower in this class or maybe the last five classes than Josh Rosen. He’s always on balance. He’s accurate at all three levels, but I would take your point about injuries, and I’d take it one step forward.

“When you complement that with the fact that he’s less athletic than I thought he was, he struggles getting out of trouble in the pocket. When you combine the two, his lack of escapability and his propensity for injuries and his slight frame, I’m not sure he can survive an NFL pocket over a 16-game season for any extended length.”

The Browns will conduct private workouts with all of the top QBs over the next month or so, attend their pro days, and bring them to the Browns facility for visits. By then, they’ll know which one is their No. 1.

5. Josh Allen's accuracy
At 6-5, 233, the Wyoming product passes the eyeball test. He’s also a high-character player with exceptional arm talent. But his 56.2 completion percentage has NFL scouts and coaches on red alert. If Allen performs well in Indianapolis, and also wows the Browns at his private workout and Pro Day, he might be able to sway them. But many coaches believe inaccuracy follows a quarterback throughout his career, and won’t touch one with that completion percentage.

ESPN’s Mel Kiper Jr., however, has Allen going to the Browns at No. 1.

"He's got the best arm of anyone in this draft,'' Kiper said on his pre-NFL Scouting Combine conference call Wednesday. "He has tremendous size, he has tremendous athleticism for a big man. You saw his mobility. You go back to that Iowa game earlier in the year. You go look at the Senior Bowl, in that first half, that second quarter, his mobility there. He's just got all the physical traits you want. Athletic prowess, he's got the will to learn, he's got great competitive desire on the football field, (Wyoming coach) Craig Bohl raves about him.''


6. Baker Mayfield's height and character
McCloughan said before the Browns hired him that Mayfield would be his man if he needed a QB, and that he reminds him Brett Favre in the gamer department.

Dorsey has also said that Mayfield’s height — a shade over 6-0 — wouldn’t be a dealbreaker.

But the Browns will have to get comfortable with his size and character concerns if they’re to reach a consensus on the Heisman Trophy winner. As for the height, he measured 6-foot-3/8 at the Senior Bowl. Will it be the same at the combine? The two successful QBs in the NFL shorter than 6-1 — Drew Brees and Russell Wilson — both have exceptionally large hands at 10.25 inches. Mayfield’s measured 9 1/2 inches at the Senior Bowl.

As for the character issue, he’s out to shed the Johnny Manziel comparisons, but at least in the minds of some evaluators, he has a ways to go in this regard. He’s been arrested for disorderly conduct and fleeing the arrest, taunted the Kansas sidelines by grabbing his crotch, and planted a flag on the Block O at Ohio State after beating the Buckeyes. Dorsey seems to like his moxie, but most agree that maturity is a big issue.

“Some teams are going to say it’s not a problem. Other teams are going to say it is a problem,’’ said Mayock. “I struggle a little bit with it because I want your quarterback to be that guy that’s never going to be in trouble. He’s going to work his tail off and he’s going to be your ‘Alpha Dog’ in the locker room, and right now, with all the stuff surrounding him, it gives me some agita, I don’t think agita equals the first pick or the fourth pick for me.”

7. Do the Browns view Barkley as a top five pick?

Would the Browns draft Barkley with their No. 1 or their top No. 4 overall picks? It’s doubtful they’d use their No. 1 pick on the Penn State back, but would they take him at No. 4?

If they determine he’s in the mold of an Ezekiel Elliott, Todd Gurley or Leonard Fournette — all recent top-10 picks — they’ll likely strongly consider it. But they must decide if they need to spent a top-five pick on a back or if they can get a game changer in the second or third round. At 5-11, 229, Barkley catches as well as he runs. But he must prove to the Browns he’s a special, dynamic runner to be picked that high.

"If you think a running back is a top-five or a top-10 talent, and you're willing to commit your offense philosophically to 20 to 25 touches a game, then draft him,’’ Mayock said. “And look at recent history, whether it's (Elliott) in Dallas, Gurley in LA, Fournette (in Jacksonville) this past year, all three of those guys were top-10 picks, all three teams committed to them and they've been phenomenal.

"This kid at 230 pounds is as good as any of them if not the best, and he's totally clean off the field. He's explosive, he's quick, he's got burst, acceleration, he can catch the football, he can pass protect. He can be a three-down back in this league for a long time.''
Posted By: edromeo Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 02/26/18 09:29 PM
Darnold vs Texas 2017
Posted By: kwhip Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 02/26/18 09:48 PM
THIS right here is my problem with Rosen. Mayock NAILS it. And I'm not sure if ANY of these things are correctable.

"When you complement that with the fact that he’s less athletic than I thought he was, he struggles getting out of trouble in the pocket. When you combine the two, his lack of escapability and his propensity for injuries and his slight frame, I’m not sure he can survive an NFL pocket over a 16-game season for any extended length.”
Posted By: kwhip Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 02/26/18 09:53 PM
Ronnie Jones II is going to be a STUD in the NFL.
Posted By: Hammer Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 02/26/18 10:28 PM
Looked pretty damn good to me. USC O-line sucks, by the way. 6 drops that i counted, 1 resulting in a pick 6. 1 other horrible interception. Some very impressive throws on the money as well.
Posted By: Jester Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 02/26/18 11:25 PM
After watching that video one of the links was to Josh Allen vs Iowa.
Holy cow, Allen is frick'n Derek Anderson

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9pqRs8Z8eGA
Posted By: Versatile Dog Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 02/27/18 12:26 AM
Originally Posted By: kwhip
THIS right here is my problem with Rosen. Mayock NAILS it. And I'm not sure if ANY of these things are correctable.

"When you complement that with the fact that he’s less athletic than I thought he was, he struggles getting out of trouble in the pocket. When you combine the two, his lack of escapability and his propensity for injuries and his slight frame, I’m not sure he can survive an NFL pocket over a 16-game season for any extended length.”


I have a question for you? Did you watch the USC/UCLA game video I provided? Did you not hear Fowler and Herbstreit talk about how he bought time in the pocket? Did you not see him avoid rushers w/subtle moves in the pocket so he could get the pass off?

Some of you guys act like a guy has to run around like a chicken w/head cut off when all that is really needed is pocket presence and moves that keep you in the pocket so you can deliver the ball on time.

Look KWhip, I don't care if you don't like Rosen. I just think you really haven't watched him because it is pretty obvious to anyone w/a clue that he does indeed buy time in the pocket w/movement. I am NOT saying he is scrambling all over out of the pocket. I am talking about movement that buys him an extra second as he avoids the rusher and he delivers the ball to his receiver.

Watch the damn video if you haven't watched it yet. It's as clear as day to see.
Posted By: Versatile Dog Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 02/27/18 01:07 AM
KWhip, here is a quote from Rosen's head coach, Jim Mora:

Quote:
“He has a great feel for where there’s going to be a spot in the pocket, where he can set up and shuffle into and find time to get the ball down the field,” Mora said. “He’s as good as I’ve ever seen in doing that. He just has this innate feel for where the rush is and being able to slide up to buy time.”


Full article here: https://www.ocregister.com/2015/12/24/uc...-his-fast-feet/
Posted By: Versatile Dog Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 02/27/18 01:15 AM
Want another one?

Quote:
Strengths

Josh Rosen is your prototypical pocket passer, and has all of the tools that make NFL GMs salivate. He has terrific footwork, balance and mechanics. His throwing motion is solid, and he has a huge arm, fitting the ball into tight windows and spinning it with ease. He hardly threw a wobbly ball all year. His feel for throws is also impressive as he can throw receivers open and put back shoulder throws on the money. He is NFL ready as he operated in a pro-style offense at UCLA and showed the ability to move to second and third progressions and alter defenders with his eyes. He is not a threat to run but can move in the pocket and keep his eyes downfield. His skillset is the total package.


https://fantasyfootballcalculator.com/dynasty/dynasty-scouting-report-josh-rosen-ucla
Posted By: Versatile Dog Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 02/27/18 01:18 AM
Here is one more for you, KWhip:

Quote:
Good field vision, quick to move through progressions
Pure pocket passer. Willing to stand in there, knows when to ditch, can set and deliver smoothly across the field
Senses pressure well and can make plays under duress


https://www.ganggreennation.com/2018/1/1...s-new-york-jets

Let me know if you need more.
Posted By: Versatile Dog Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 02/27/18 01:22 AM
Oh, what the heck. Here is one more. It's from Greg Cosell, perhaps the brightest mind out there in his field:

Quote:
Strengths: Clean footwork on his drop from center with excellent ball position and a quick, compact delivery. Consistently delivered with a firm base and good balance. Good arm, not a gun, but the mentality and sense of timing of a pocket quarterback. Efficient from waist down, with eyes and feet consistently working together. Good feel for timing and rhythm of drop-back pass game from under center, with a strong sense of progression reading and decisive throws. . . . Showed pocket movement with eyes remaining downfield, and an understanding of manipulating coverage. Toughness in the pocket with look-down-the-gun-barrel traits. . . . Extensive experience turning his back to the defense and executing play-action pass game.


http://www.latimes.com/sports/nfl/la-sp-darnold-rosen-nfl-20170827-story.html
Posted By: Bull_Dawg Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 02/27/18 01:31 AM
He can manipulate the pocket well, but there is still some small concern with me in his ability to deal with free rushers. He will stand in there and deliver, but he hasn't always gotten back up. When there aren't open receivers, he can hold the ball too long and take extra hits instead of throwing it away. Having free rushers as well as not having open receivers are things he'd probably see here often enough to be a concern worth considering.
Posted By: Versatile Dog Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 02/27/18 01:35 AM
That's a different argument. He does stand in there and take shots. Some might see that as a positive. Others may not. However, I was specifically addressing a couple of posters trying to say he can't move in the pocket. That is "false."
Posted By: dean_fairchild Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 02/27/18 01:39 PM
I don’t know exactly what Mayock was trying to articulate there but the way I took it was that what Rosen does struggle with is when he has to escape the pocket he has a much harder time then when he can just slide away from pressure within the pocket. I personally think Rosen does well when he moves around in the pocket. Can he run away from pressure? Probably not. If Dorsey and company want a true pocket QB who’s gonna live and die in the pocket then Rosen is that guy. If they want someone who can break the pocket and scramble ala a Rogers type then maybe Rosen isn’t their guy. We’ll have to wait to see what they like better.
Posted By: edromeo Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 02/27/18 10:46 PM
Whoops* trying to link a post
Posted By: edromeo Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 02/27/18 11:13 PM
Grimm and dean,

I'm gonna quote myself here, lol, but here's part of my observations and comment from the Rosen's USC every throw cut-up that i think fit this current conversation:

Quote:
Limited in terms of mobility. Did not avoid sacks or escape from the pocket to extend plays. Did not throw on the move. Didn't bring much to the table this game in terms of playmaking or improvisation....His bad plays came in bunches mainly starting in the 3rd Q after the pressure/hits/sacks began. Couldn't get the offense going though. Had a bad RZ turnover and 2 other dropped INTs..


link to post:
https://www.dawgtalkers.net/ubbthreads.php/topics/1395454/edromeo#Post1395454


So i noticed some of the same things you guys mention and Mayock mentioned.*

Originally Posted By: GrimmBrown
He can manipulate the pocket well, but there is still some small concern with me in his ability to deal with free rushers. He will stand in there and deliver, but he hasn't always gotten back up. When there aren't open receivers, he can hold the ball too long and take extra hits instead of throwing it away. Having free rushers as well as not having open receivers are things he'd probably see here often enough to be a concern worth considering.


Originally Posted By: dean_fairchild
I don’t know exactly what Mayock was trying to articulate there but the way I took it was that what Rosen does struggle with is when he has to escape the pocket he has a much harder time then when he can just slide away from pressure within the pocket. I personally think Rosen does well when he moves around in the pocket. Can he run away from pressure? Probably not.


Rosen's escapability and playmaking (scrambling) doesn't compare to some of the other 1st round QB prospects in this class.

*If you guys want to discuss some of these types of play from the USC game I charted them by time stamp and category...I would be happy to post them as gifs
Posted By: Versatile Dog Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 02/28/18 12:36 AM
Quote:
Scouts say Rosen's movement within the pocket is excellent, but he's not blessed with great mobility, either.


cfrs posted this today in the new Josh Rosen thread. There are some negatives and you can read the entire article in that particular thread. I just posted the above comment because it addresses the question of whether Rosen can move w/in the pocket. Lot's of people seeing him being good in this area, including his head coach and NFL scouts.

Are they all wrong?
Posted By: Bull_Dawg Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 02/28/18 02:07 AM
Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog
Quote:
Scouts say Rosen's movement within the pocket is excellent, but he's not blessed with great mobility, either.


cfrs posted this today in the new Josh Rosen thread. There are some negatives and you can read the entire article in that particular thread. I just posted the above comment because it addresses the question of whether Rosen can move w/in the pocket. Lot's of people seeing him being good in this area, including his head coach and NFL scouts.

Are they all wrong?


I think people just mean different things when they talk about evading the rush.
Posted By: rastanplan Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 02/28/18 11:29 AM
Originally Posted By: GrimmBrown
He can manipulate the pocket well, but there is still some small concern with me in his ability to deal with free rushers. He will stand in there and deliver, but he hasn't always gotten back up. When there aren't open receivers, he can hold the ball too long and take extra hits instead of throwing it away. Having free rushers as well as not having open receivers are things he'd probably see here often enough to be a concern worth considering.


If he is a "great pocket QB" there will never be a free rusher, he will have them recognized and all rushers will be expected... Actually he will be able to exploit it...

If he can't, then you have big problems,because you end up with a statue with problems reading the game...

That's what makes or breaks pocket passers, and that's why they are so hard to find...
Posted By: edromeo Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 02/28/18 09:28 PM
Originally Posted By: rastanplan
Originally Posted By: GrimmBrown
He can manipulate the pocket well, but there is still some small concern with me in his ability to deal with free rushers. He will stand in there and deliver, but he hasn't always gotten back up. When there aren't open receivers, he can hold the ball too long and take extra hits instead of throwing it away. Having free rushers as well as not having open receivers are things he'd probably see here often enough to be a concern worth considering.


If he is a "great pocket QB" there will never be a free rusher, he will have them recognized and all rushers will be expected... Actually he will be able to exploit it...

If he can't, then you have big problems,because you end up with a statue with problems reading the game...

That's what makes or breaks pocket passers, and that's why they are so hard to find...
I'm guessing there might be misunderstanding here....and I could be wrong but I don't think Grimm is referring only to unblocked/unaccounted for rushers owhen he said 'free rushers'.

There are times when an OL is gonna get beat and a rusher will come free closing in on the QB. That's not the QBs fault.

But its a bonus skill when a QB can make those free rusher miss or escape from the pocket and occasionally turn what could be a driving killing sack or incompletion into a positive play. That's a pretty good skill to have and when it comes to this area Rosen from what I've seen on tape isn't on par with the other top prospects.
Posted By: Versatile Dog Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 03/01/18 12:01 AM
Quote:
That's a pretty good skill to have and when it comes to this area Rosen from what I've seen on tape isn't on par with the other top prospects.


So, you are going to ignore what his coach, scouts, and well respected draft guys have said and stubbornly hold onto an opinion that was based on not watching all of his games?

Sometimes it's best to just admit you were wrong. Or, if that is too much for the ego to handle, perhaps just stay quiet and hope no one rubs your face in it.
Posted By: edromeo Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 03/01/18 02:52 AM
lol
Posted By: Versatile Dog Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 03/01/18 03:04 AM
Nothing that I am aware of.

You challenged me repeatedly about Rosen being able to move in the pocket. I was willing to let it go, but you wouldn't let up. Thus, I posted several articles that proved he can move in the pocket. You then ignored them and are sticking to your guns.

Look ed, you don't know more about Josh Rosen than his freaking HC does. You don't know more about him than scouts do. You don't know more about him than Cosell does.

Give it up. You are making a fool out of yourself.
Posted By: edromeo Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 03/01/18 03:23 AM
Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog
You challenged me repeatedly
My tone was conversational. I was seeking discussion.

The fact that you view seeking a discussion as a 'challenge' isn't my problem. Some people actually come here to discuss football and exchange view points.


Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog
You challenged me repeatedly me repeatedly about Rosen being able to move in the pocket.
Pure lie.

Quote where I said anything about Rosen's ability to move IN THE POCKET.

Quote it. I'm waiting.

We are all waiting.

Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog
You are making a fool out of yourself.
You lie, fabricate and purposefully misrepresent my argument for what? Then you say insult me?

You are what is wrong with football message boards. Some people actually want to talk football not have to put up with your lies and misrepresentations. Imho you bring this forum down.

Posted By: eotab Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 03/01/18 03:28 AM
reading that edge rusher or more important the disguised blitz. That will take time.
But also the WR must be on the same page for that adjustment
Posted By: Versatile Dog Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 03/01/18 03:32 AM
Whatever ed. I provided articles that disproved your claims. You counter w/personal attacks.

Rosen can move in the pocket and avoid rushers. That is a fact and your personal attacks do not change that fact.
Posted By: Versatile Dog Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 03/01/18 03:38 AM
Let me post this again...............It comes from Jim Mora, his HC at UCLA. The same Jim Mora who coached in the NFL.

Quote:
“He has a great feel for where there’s going to be a spot in the pocket, where he can set up and shuffle into and find time to get the ball down the field,” Mora said. “He’s as good as I’ve ever seen in doing that. He just has this innate feel for where the rush is and being able to slide up to buy time.”


But ed, watches one game and tells us that Rosen can't move and buy time in the pocket. We are supposed to believe ed--the self-proclaimed qb expert over Rosen's HC. You know, the same ed who said Cody Kessler was a better qb than Carson Wentz. The same ed who said RGIII was accurate and could read coverages. The same ed who said Kizer was accurate and could go through progressions quickly. The same ed who says Tyrod Taylor is a very good qb.

I gave you chances to stop. You refused. You reap what you sow, ed.
Posted By: PitDAWG Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 03/01/18 05:26 PM
But he can't scramble and run like the great RG3 can.
Posted By: edromeo Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 03/01/18 09:11 PM
Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog
Whatever ed. I provided articles that disproved your claims. You counter w/personal attacks.

Rosen can move in the pocket and avoid rushers. That is a fact and your personal attacks do not change that fact.
No Vers the articles you posted don't disprove anything I've said. The only thing they prove is that YOU are perfectly willing to fabricate a strawman argument.

You can't quote anything where I've insulted you either. You can't claim calling you a liar and troll aren't insults because both are true that's what you are and what you do. This exchange proves it.

You can't provide any quotes where I've said anything negative about Rosen in the pocket.

If you can post them.....we are all still waiting.

You are completely full of it and i'm sure anyone reading this exchange can see that.

You feign interest in actually breaking down film. When engaging in discussion rather then discuss differing view points you attempt, in vain, to shout them down with your lies, fabrications then insults. And when called on it you just double down.

You and your disgraceful antics bring this place down.

But, either way i'm moving on.
Posted By: eotab Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 03/01/18 09:33 PM
you both are starting to sound alike

In phone mode I only can see a couple of words drugged up I soon have to scroll up n read the name...Im like ok this is vers posting style I get to the name of the poster...ooops its ed not vers...lol
Just letting you know smile
Posted By: edromeo Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 03/01/18 10:02 PM
I had high hopes for this thread.....
Posted By: Versatile Dog Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 03/02/18 12:27 AM
Quote:

You can't quote anything where I've insulted you either. You can't claim calling you a liar and troll aren't insults because both are true that's what you are and what you do. This exchange proves it.


Classic.
Posted By: edromeo Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 03/02/18 12:18 PM
Originally Posted By: edromeo
Grimm and dean,

I'm gonna quote myself here, lol, but here's part of my observations and comment from the Rosen's USC every throw cut-up that i think fit this current conversation:

Quote:
Limited in terms of mobility. Did not avoid sacks or escape from the pocket to extend plays. Did not throw on the move. Didn't bring much to the table this game in terms of playmaking or improvisation....His bad plays came in bunches mainly starting in the 3rd Q after the pressure/hits/sacks began. Couldn't get the offense going though. Had a bad RZ turnover and 2 other dropped INTs..


link to post:
https://www.dawgtalkers.net/ubbthreads.php/topics/1395454/edromeo#Post1395454


So i noticed some of the same things you guys mention and Mayock mentioned.*

Originally Posted By: GrimmBrown
He can manipulate the pocket well, but there is still some small concern with me in his ability to deal with free rushers. He will stand in there and deliver, but he hasn't always gotten back up. When there aren't open receivers, he can hold the ball too long and take extra hits instead of throwing it away. Having free rushers as well as not having open receivers are things he'd probably see here often enough to be a concern worth considering.


Originally Posted By: dean_fairchild
I don’t know exactly what Mayock was trying to articulate there but the way I took it was that what Rosen does struggle with is when he has to escape the pocket he has a much harder time then when he can just slide away from pressure within the pocket. I personally think Rosen does well when he moves around in the pocket. Can he run away from pressure? Probably not.


Rosen's escapability and playmaking (scrambling) doesn't compare to some of the other 1st round QB prospects in this class.

*If you guys want to discuss some of these types of play from the USC game I charted them by time stamp and category...I would be happy to post them as gifs

Cont. discussion of USC game:

@ 1:46
@3:49

@7:20

@10:05

@10:23
^^That's a pathetic attempt from the RB...ole! Not much any QB could do there


Posted By: edromeo Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 03/04/18 01:47 AM




Posted By: eotab Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 03/04/18 08:16 AM
I tell u now Im really confused. I know its just shorts...but he Josh Allen looked so smooth and hit all his throws. I was impressed.
Posted By: dawg66 Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 03/04/18 07:17 PM
I'm beginning to think that this class might rival 1983 after all. Maybe not in terms of greatness but in the number of good QBs in this draft.
Posted By: edromeo Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 03/05/18 01:57 PM
Originally Posted By: dawg66
I'm beginning to think that this class might rival 1983 after all. Maybe not in terms of greatness but in the number of good QBs in this draft.
I think all of these QBs (Allen, Baker, Darnold, Rosen) all could be good NFL QBs. I don't have this group rated as highly as last year's or the year before though.

Every QBs has different strengths and weaknesses, they offer different flavors. None really separates themselves from the others. The good thing is that SB and HOF QBs come in all different shapes and sizes.

Over the years I have much better success predicting which QBs will succeed after the draft.

Situation matters.
Posted By: edromeo Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 03/05/18 02:30 PM
Combine and overall QBs thoughts......

Oddly enough the QB that looked least accurate to me on tape (Allen) I thought by far threw the ball the best at combine from both an arm strength, footwork and ball placement.

Allen looked confident in drop and just let the ball rip. Dude has a hose.
His ball placement was more consistent then the others and he didn't have any really wild misses that I saw.
It makes sense that he looked good though...the combine throwing sessions are based on 3-5-7 step drops and Allen comes from that type of offense.

But, again on tape Allen was the least accurate of this class.

I thought Rosen looked good ball. But I have to admit I expected him to shine in this forum...this type of throwing session is in his wheelhouse and he didn't light it up like I know he can. I thought he being cautious both with his footwork and with his some of his throws at first but he settled in and threw some nice ones. But, I know he's the best passer in this group from his tape.

Baker looked comfortable and threw the ball with confidence but his footwork, like with many spread QBs, was kinda all over the place (taking 2 instead of 3 etc) but he threw on balance. He threw the ball more or less the way it looked on tape, on target for the most part good but not great velocity..feet need work.

Mentioned Lamar in his thread but he was up and down. I think he and Rosen showed some nerves because both missed early but settled down. When he did put it together you could see the ease of his velocity but I thought he was aiming the ball and should have just let it rip like Allen did. He did make an effort to match his feet to the drop the drill required but i thought he was being cautious like Rosen was early. I've definitely watched both of them take much more confident and explosive drops on tape then they showed at the combine. I think Lamar showed more of the 'bad' Lamar that sometimes pops up on film where he misses a throw that makes you think of Favre's worst and not enough of the 'wow' Lamar throws arm talent. But, that's kinda of who he is right now. Like with all these prospects they'll all have to be better in the NFL then they were in college. And Lamar is going to have on consistency and that's what you saw. You're gonna have to live with some of his misses in exchange for some of the wow.
With Rosen you're gonna live and die within the scheme of the offense and pass protection but right out of the gate he's gonna be the best at running and executing the scheme. And you're gonna be a little nervous about injury. With Allen you're gonna bank on your coaching staff making him look more like the QB you saw at the combine then the QB you saw on tape. With Darnold you have to figure are the turnover issues going to follow him? Can you live his throwing motion? It didn't appear to be a problem in college but the NFL is faster...you've had QBs with funky throwing motion kick tail like Rivers but you've also had other where its an ongoing process Bortles.
Posted By: Jester Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 03/06/18 11:18 AM
Not sure how to embed youtube videos, but this is a link to Greg Cosell breaking down the Qb's


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7R7FUzc3rlE
Posted By: edromeo Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 03/06/18 05:37 PM
Originally Posted By: Jester
Not sure how to embed youtube videos, but this is a link to Greg Cosell breaking down the Qb's


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7R7FUzc3rlE
I watched it sometime last week. Greg also brings good insight.

What did you think?
Posted By: edromeo Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 03/06/18 10:14 PM
Originally Posted By: Jester
Not sure how to embed youtube videos, but this is a link to Greg Cosell breaking down the Qb's

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7R7FUzc3rlE



Chris Simms:
Posted By: DiamDawg Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 03/06/18 10:16 PM
Good stuff .. thanks for sharing ...

Bummed he had no film to break down .. i could listen to that guy ALL DAM DAY ...

I ALWAYS LEARN a bunch!!!

thumbsup
Posted By: edromeo Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 03/07/18 11:48 AM
Are you doing any QB film breakdown this year?

Although we didnt always agree last year it was still informative.
Posted By: DiamDawg Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 03/07/18 03:20 PM
I been buried since the first of the year ... i have some time now ...

Some time later this week or next i’ll go through what u have done and go give watch and give my take on some of it ...

I really enjoyed what we did last year ... that was fun and as u said informative ... i learned and thats why i come here .... weather u believe that or not .. *L* .. i was dissapointed i couldn’t participate this year ...
Posted By: CHSDawg Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 03/07/18 07:03 PM
https://www.si.com/tech-media/2018/03/07...flow_twitter_si

ESPN Replaces Jon Gruden’s ‘QB Camp’ With Show Where Russell Wilson Talks to Draft Prospects

Russell Wilson will host a limited-run series for ESPN in April in which he will interview four of the top prospects in the NFL draft, the network announced Wednesday.

The series serves as a replacement for the popular “QB Camp” with Jon Gruden, who left ESPN in January to become head coach of the Raiders.

The Wilson series will be called “QB2QB” and feature interviews with quarterbacks Baker Mayfield, Mason Rudolph and J.T. Barrett, as well as running back Saquon Barkley. (The episode with Barkley will be branded as “QB2RB.”) Mayfield and Barrett are somewhat similar to Wilson—undersized quarterbacks who are comfortable outside the pocket.

Wilson will speak with the players about “making the transition from college to the NFL, winning and losing Super Bowls, being the face of an NFL franchise, starting over with new coaches, and building relationships with teammates,” ESPN said. He will also discuss the “mental conditioning” of his “cognitive coach” Trevor Moawad.

All four 30-minute episodes will premiere on April 17, nine days before the draft.
Posted By: edromeo Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 03/07/18 11:14 PM
I'm disappointed ESPN didn't have the foresight to plan for Gruden leaving.

The QB sit-downs were easily the best thing that network did.

I can think of bunch of people on their own network that could have taken over. ;(

I'll still watch though.
Posted By: edromeo Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 03/07/18 11:20 PM
Originally Posted By: DiamDawg
I been buried since the first of the year ... i have some time now ...

Some time later this week or next i’ll go through what u have done and go give watch and give my take on some of it ...

I really enjoyed what we did last year ... that was fun and as u said informative ... i learned and thats why i come here .... weather u believe that or not .. *L* .. i was dissapointed i couldn’t participate this year ...
No worries. There was very little discussion this year. CHSDawg chipped in though.

Having the QB game tape discussion is my favorite event on the forum after the mock draft; look forward to it if you have time.
Posted By: Bull_Dawg Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 03/07/18 11:38 PM
nvm.
Posted By: edromeo Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 03/08/18 09:42 PM
Posted By: myka Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 03/08/18 10:30 PM
Originally Posted By: edromeo
I'm disappointed ESPN didn't have the foresight to plan for Gruden leaving.

The QB sit-downs were easily the best thing that network did.

I can think of bunch of people on their own network that could have taken over. ;(

I'll still watch though.


Totally agree.

I don't mind them doing QB2QB. They usually have some kind of player interview series anyways, but I'll miss it being a coach.

I wonder if they just didn't have any other ex-coaches that were charismatic enough?
Posted By: edromeo Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 03/08/18 11:16 PM
Originally Posted By: myka
Originally Posted By: edromeo
I'm disappointed ESPN didn't have the foresight to plan for Gruden leaving.

The QB sit-downs were easily the best thing that network did.

I can think of bunch of people on their own network that could have taken over. ;(

I'll still watch though.
Totally agree.

I don't mind them doing QB2QB. They usually have some kind of player interview series anyways, but I'll miss it being a coach.

I wonder if they just didn't have any other ex-coaches that were charismatic enough?
Some in house choices:
GREG COSELL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Bring back Jaws
Steve Young
Tom Jackson
Randy Moss
Matt/Tim Hasselbeck, Mark Brunell, Ryan Clark, Darren Woodson, Trent Dilfer, Teddy Bruschi

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
more QB breakdowns

Steve Palazollo PFF on Good Morning Football
Posted By: Bull_Dawg Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 03/09/18 01:33 AM
Originally Posted By: edromeo
Originally Posted By: myka
Originally Posted By: edromeo
I'm disappointed ESPN didn't have the foresight to plan for Gruden leaving.

The QB sit-downs were easily the best thing that network did.

I can think of bunch of people on their own network that could have taken over. ;(

I'll still watch though.
Totally agree.

I don't mind them doing QB2QB. They usually have some kind of player interview series anyways, but I'll miss it being a coach.

I wonder if they just didn't have any other ex-coaches that were charismatic enough?
Some in house choices:
GREG COSELL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Bring back Jaws
Steve Young
Tom Jackson
Randy Moss
Matt/Tim Hasselbeck, Mark Brunell, Ryan Clark, Darren Woodson, Trent Dilfer, Teddy Bruschi

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
more QB breakdowns

Steve Palazollo PFF on Good Morning Football


...I think they are waiting for Hue to get fired. angel
Posted By: Swish Re: Finally finished Louisville vs FSU - 03/09/18 03:14 PM
Originally Posted By: edromeo




so the first throw was an easy read, easy throw that was on target.

second throw, another clean pocket, that lead to an easy read and easy throw across the middle.

the first run of the game. notice how he runs? he doesn’t run upright. he runs low, keeping that center of gravity as low as possible, like a running back, but he avoids contact until somebody has to tackle him front side/behind.

the second run, same thing for a touchdown.

third throw of the game, o line was leaky, he’s essentially backpedaling, but makes an on target throw in the middle of the field thats dropped.

so on the 4th throw, it’s 3rd in 7. he has a somewhat clean pocket, but clearly he feels the blitz coming, and makes an inaccurate throw.

third run, again, is just the fastest player on the field. hits open field so fast.

5th throw, clean pocket, throws an accurate dart over the middle for a completion. it takes this guy zero effort to throw the ball.

4th run was just a simple design run for a few yards. nothing special.

6th run was a read option. the o line absolutely sucked, and not only did the rb who didn’t even get the ball get blown up, but lamar had nowhere to go with the ball.

7th run, another designed run, nothing special for a few yards.

so the 6th throw. this is where his lower body mechanics becomes a problem. he had a clean pocket, but his stance is so narrow that he throws behind the WR for in incompletion. now, the ball was indeed tipped at the line, but thats not an excuse for his narrow stance.

7th throw, bootleg, and he threw the ball accurately on the run into the flat for a completion.

8th run was a read option, ran and got the first down

9th run, another read option, easily runs and gets the first, but also runs out of bounds to avoid contact.

so the 8th throw. right now you can clearly see him reading the field and going through progressions. he has a clean pocket, but again, his narrow stance makes for an inaccurate throw to an open receiver down the field. just above his arms.

10th run, runs into a wall.

so on the following play, he actually climbs into the pocket, like you want your QB to be able to do, but the line is so bad that he climbs into the pocket, only to get sacked.

9th throw, he gets blitz, and dumps it off accurately to his RB.

10th throw, another pass to the RB in the flat.

11th throw, he rolls to his left as if he’s running, but is always looking down field, and then does a shovel pass to his receiver for the first down.

12 throw was an accurate throw on slant, again with the narrow stance.

what would’ve been another throw, another bad job by the o line, and he gets sacked while keeping his eyes downfield.

13th throw, clean pocket, narrow stance, overthrows the receiver, who was well covered anyway. clearly, arm strength is there. but that play ended up being PI on florida state.

14th throw, inaccurate for an incompletion, clean pocket.

15th throw, clean pocket, narrow stance, throws a beautiful pass into the end zone for a TD, 26 yards. accuracy is there.

11th run, designed run, picks up about 5.

12th, read option, runs into two defenders for whatever reason. dumb, but picks up yards.

13th run, it’s 3rd and 1, he keeps it, easily picks up the 1st, but isn’t actually tackled. just stood up and stopped due to forward progress.

14th run, he starts off with a clean pocket, goes through 1st and 2nd read before pocket begins to collapse, and then proceeds to make the defense look stupid on a long run.

15th run. how in gods name is he so fast? he was already at the second level before any defender touched him, easy run for a 1st down.

so, the 16th throw. open receiver, but leads this target too far into the boundary. narrow stance again, clean pocket.

16th run, 5 yard pick up down the middle.

17th run, defense was reading run the entire time, lamar gets stopped short of the first down on 3rd and 3.

18th run, easy pick up for about 7.

19th run, designed run, but #73 gets absolutely blown up by the defender and lamar gets tackle for a loss.

17th throw, clean pocket, narrow stance, throws an accurate ball in the middle of the field for a long gain.

20th run, read option, easy pick up for about 8.

18th throw, clean pocket, he throws a beautiful accurate pass that is DROPPED in the end zone.

19th throw, clean pocket, throws an accurate ball to his receiver for a 1st down

20th throw, pocket is breaking down, but he moves within the pocket and throws in the middle for a completion.

21st throw. throws a beautiful and accurate bomb to a WR down the field, but its DROPPED in the end zone. theres no QB that would’ve thrown it any better. right in the breadbasket.

21st run, it’s 3rd and 1 with 40-something seconds to go, and its a read option. he pulls it back and takes off for the 1st, putting the team in FG range.

so, he’s 13/21, for 61.9%. with 3 flat out drops.

the thing is that this is a common theme with Louisville. i’ve watched multiple games, and lamar jackson IS the offense. he has to play with shaky talent at the WR spot, an ok RB, and a terrible o line.

notice how he runs the ball? he doesn’t run like a typical mobile QB. he runs with a low center of gravity, allowing him to avoid contact. he isn’t a physical runner, which is why he doesn’t get hurt. and actually the main reason he never gets hurt, he rarely ever looks for contact. and when defenders tackle him, its mostly from the side or from behind, because he already put a move on everybody. his agility, and ability to make subtle cuts in limited amount of space is absolutely next level.

so thats why i don’t get the comparisons to RG3. he’s definitely more like Vick, because Vick had the same running style that allowed him to stay healthy in his career.

Lamar runs like somebody running an offense designed for that. RG3 runs like he’s trying to show defenses he’s tougher than they are. those are completely different running styles. and one absolutely leads to more injury over the other.

also, his throwing motion is fine. its his lower body mechanics that need to be worked on. but guess what? all the “experts” say lower body is the easiest to fix, as it just comes with repetition. he had plenty of arm strength, can CLEARLY make all the throws.

and one thing that a lot of people refuse to acknowledge: he ran pro style concepts at louisville. you can see him clearly going through progressions. he isn’t running the spread. and his eyes are downfield more often than not, as he isn’t looking to run the ball on passing plays, only if he has to or gets fluttered with the rush.

he has shown that he can absolutely operate in the pocket, that he can make plays from within the pocket, and doesn’t get hurt when he decided to run the ball.

the things he has to work on as a passer is what most college QB’s have to work on as a passer. the only QB in the draft that has hands down better mechanics than him is Rosen.

but Rosen can’t make defensive coordinators lose sleep at night trying to figure out how to defend against him. Lamar can.
Posted By: edromeo Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 03/11/18 12:28 AM
Posted By: edromeo Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 03/11/18 12:34 AM
Posted By: edromeo Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 03/11/18 12:37 AM
Posted By: edromeo Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 03/11/18 12:40 AM
Posted By: edromeo Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 03/11/18 12:41 AM


Posted By: edromeo Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 03/11/18 12:48 AM
Posted By: edromeo Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 03/11/18 01:03 AM
Posted By: Hammer Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 03/11/18 02:32 AM
Clearly, Baker should be the top QB drafted.
Posted By: edromeo Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 03/11/18 03:19 PM
Originally Posted By: Hammer
Clearly, Baker should be the top QB drafted.
It depends on how you look at the stats.

I believe you always have to contextualize. And the fact of the matter is 1) the OU scheme gives him easier throws 2) he had the best pass protection.

I know for me i look at his stats with a "correction" due to scheme.

It also depends on whether or not height matters to you.

Likeswise with arm strentgh and off the field concerns.

But yeah there are reasons to view him as the top QB and there are reason why he isn't.
Posted By: eotab Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 03/11/18 04:17 PM
take your stats...take your bs about the OU scheme...just look at the film. Look at the games. Point blank he has arm strength and is the most accurate QB in this draft.

If 6'3" or more he is THE OVERALL #1 pick hands down. Of course he is 6'n 5/8". So his status is in question. All that other stuff is pure garbage.
Posted By: OldColdDawg Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 03/12/18 12:41 AM
We would be fools to pass on mayfield at number 4, but if he's gone then Darnold, Rosen, Allen would be there. Barkley at #1, Mayfield or other QB at #4. Best thing we could do.
Posted By: PeteyDangerous Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 03/12/18 02:28 AM
Originally Posted By: OldColdDawg
We would be fools to pass on mayfield at number 4, but if he's gone then Darnold, Rosen, Allen would be there. Barkley at #1, Mayfield or other QB at #4. Best thing we could do.


Posted By: devicedawg Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 03/12/18 03:02 AM
Yeah, I don't get the lack of arm strength with Baker. He has one of the strongest arms in this draft class.
Posted By: TripleOption Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 03/15/18 01:38 AM
I watched a lot of end of the season games for these guys and finally reviewed almost all of this thread.

A lot of the conversation seems to be around Darnold or Rosen...Mayfield seems like a game changer though. Is the lack of love for him mostly attributed to the earlier in the season comparisons to Manziel?

I read an article I think on CBS that Buffalo may try and trade up to get Mayfield...am I missing something or do folks really think Darnold is just that much better?
Posted By: PeteyDangerous Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 03/15/18 01:42 AM
Originally Posted By: TripleOption
I watched a lot of end of the season games for these guys and finally reviewed almost all of this thread.

A lot of the conversation seems to be around Darnold or Rosen...Mayfield seems like a game changer though. Is the lack of love for him mostly attributed to the earlier in the season comparisons to Manziel?

I read an article I think on CBS that Buffalo may try and trade up to get Mayfield...am I missing something or do folks really think Darnold is just that much better?


I think folks are really starting to come around on Mayfield.

My ratings are 1) Rosen 2) Mayfield 3) Darnold then further off 4) Allen 5) Jackson.

I just hate that stupid headband thing that Mayfield wears. Looks like a t-shirt sleeve or something.


But yeah, Rosen is ahead of the pack (but I don't know his medical or personal evaluations so I can only say what I know from what I've seen on tape), then Mayfield and Darnold are pretty close.

But from the film, Mayfield is a heckuva QB. I think a lot of folks on here would agree too.



I just didn't want to draft Barkley at 1 (which is why I posted the guy heaving)
Posted By: TripleOption Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 03/15/18 02:54 AM
I initially was somewhat high on Barkley, as this week has gone on, I've started to shift my mindset a bit. Mayfield has really been growing on me though.

Question on Rosen...he seems to already have some physical issues/limitations...
Freshman Year - 13 GP
Sophomore Year - 6 GP (shoulder injury)
Junior Year - 11 GP (concussion)


Also interesting comments from Dorsey before he came to Cleveland - https://247sports.com/nfl/cleveland-brow...Rosen-112784642
Posted By: eotab Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 03/15/18 03:07 AM
just to let u know you get sweat in your eyes you start wearing a headband wink
Posted By: PeteyDangerous Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 03/15/18 03:16 AM
Originally Posted By: eotab
just to let u know you get sweat in your eyes you start wearing a headband wink


yeah, but his is that ridiculous thick t-shirt material cotton one.

I just don't like it

Like look at this picture from his pro-day. I found an article just typing in Baker Mayfield Headband. And it's showing how he compares to the Karate Kid.


















He even wears the stupid thing when he gets off the airplane

Posted By: eotab Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 03/15/18 03:22 AM
He's going bald also, looks like full head of hair...lol laugh

Its how he looks with the helmet on!
Posted By: PeteyDangerous Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 03/15/18 03:25 AM
Originally Posted By: eotab
He's going bald also, looks like full head of hair...lol laugh

Its how he looks with the helmet on!


Man, if he takes us to where he says he'd take us, I'd sport one of those stupid things around too.

Probably wouldn't even be forced to wear it neither. It would be the new thing to wear if you're a Browns fan, lol



But as of now, I can't stand it. Hopefully Dorsey doesn't draft based on headbands though (not saying Mayfield should be number 1, but his headband shouldn't be a factor)
Posted By: Jester Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 03/15/18 05:20 AM
I don't know where the videos was posted of his pro day, might be in a different thread, but did you hear what one reporter asked?

He said: Are you going to be taking on Ralph Macchio after your done here?

Gave me a huge guffaw.
Posted By: edromeo Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 03/17/18 09:21 PM
Posted By: edromeo Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 03/17/18 09:22 PM
Posted By: edromeo Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 03/17/18 09:23 PM
Posted By: kwhip Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 03/17/18 09:34 PM
Originally Posted By: edromeo


How are they saying Time to Throw is calculated?

Give us variables because THAT one REEKS of Darnold and Rosen.
Posted By: edromeo Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 03/17/18 09:55 PM
Originally Posted By: kwhip
Originally Posted By: edromeo


How are they saying Time to Throw is calculated?

Give us variables because THAT one REEKS of Darnold and Rosen.
Maybe that what that stat means for you.

You can interpret however you want. The stat itself is merely a measure of the time it takes from when a QB receives the snap to when he releases the ball or get sacked.

And its only 1 of several metrics (already posted) that PFF tracked.

I think there are much more meaningful 'stand alone' stats then time to throw.

Having a high or low time to throw isn't measure of "goodness" or "bad(ness)" lol. Just information thats speaks more to "style" of play then anything else. And its a piece of information that makes more sense in combination with film. QBs that scramble and extend plays tend to have a longer TtT numbers. QBs that "hold the ball" tend to have a higher times. Playing in an offense that throws a lot of screens (for example) can lower TtT. Taking sacks can lead to higher TtT etc...

I was surprised though, that Darnold's TtT was 2.60 because he does scramble quite a bit...but there offense does throw its fair share of quick hitters screens and such.

Posted By: kwhip Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 03/17/18 10:31 PM
Exactly what I thought.

Darnold's so called Wind Up means NOTHING.

Thanks
Posted By: AlwaysABrownsFan Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 03/17/18 10:48 PM
Does it matter if they throw to the WRONG guy ? Even if its quick ? LMAO
Posted By: edromeo Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 03/17/18 11:31 PM
Originally Posted By: kwhip
Exactly what I thought.

Darnold's so called Wind Up means NOTHING.

Thanks
TtT isn't a measure of a QBs physical release time at all though.

Darnold's wind-up may be a non-issue. Other QBs have wind-ups worse then his and have success...other have wind-ups like his and struggle.

Maybe the increase in speed going from college to the NFL will make his wind-up more of an issue...but maybe not.

However; compared against a "baseline" of evaluated QB traits "throwing motion" would be an area where Darnold would be deficient compared to other prospects or the "desired" level.

Whether or not it makes a difference is a question only time can answer.

TLDR:

If I was evaluating/ranking Throwing motion: Scale 1-5 1=Tebow 5=Namath

Allen=4
Darnold=2
Mayfield=3
Jackson=3
Rosen=4

How would you rate them in terms of throwing motion?
Posted By: PeteyDangerous Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 03/17/18 11:44 PM
JC: The one thing that wind up does is expose the ball to pass rushers. That's what worries me about the wind up, not how long before he throws the ball
Posted By: Swish Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 03/18/18 12:04 AM
also, long wide ups means plenty of batted balls at the line of scrimmage.
Posted By: PeteyDangerous Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 03/18/18 12:15 AM
Originally Posted By: Swish
also, long wide ups means plenty of batted balls at the line of scrimmage.


True, players theoretically have an easier time recognizing the motion (earlier)
Posted By: Swish Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 03/18/18 12:24 AM
we saw that with weeden. defensive linemen were timing it every game.
Posted By: CHSDawg Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 03/18/18 02:16 PM
Rosen 5 - Clear and away the best. It's very compact. It's not super quick like Jimmy G's, but he does a good job at quickly releasing the ball.

Allen 4 - To watch him throw the ball is a beauty. To watch him play QB is infuriating. Makes a lot of dumb throws and gets dumb ideas a lot. However, he is a great thrower.

Mayfield 4 - I like it, it's much more like a baseball stance than a football stance. I wonder if he'll be able to get enough room to open up his stance consistently in the NFL, but good thing he's not two inches taller so this wouldn't become a debate.

Darnold 3 - My biggest problem isn't with his hitch, it's with how low he holds the ball while in the pocket. That's just multiple strip sacks waiting to happen.

Lamar Jackson 3 - The gigantic problem with him is how narrow his stance is. His narrow base really limits his control and his power. Which is why so many of his balls sail over the middle. You give him a year or two to fix it and he could be money.
Posted By: edromeo Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 03/19/18 11:25 AM
Link to the evaluation categories post in this thread. (10405407)

https://www.dawgtalkers.net/ubbthreads.php/topics/1405407/edromeo#Post1405407

Acc-Accuracy - ball placement, ability to make throws to body position (back shoulder), ability to throw receivers away from coverage/harm

Arm Strength-Velocity

Athleticism/Escapability-Combination of speed, agility and strength used to escape or elude sacks and pass rush

Dropback/Footwork- Ability to execute a 3-5-7 step drop rhythm passing offense and also the pass drop itself: get away from center, set up, weight transfer and ability to reset when moving indside the pocket. Throwing base and stance.

Experience
-- 1 year as starter + less than two years on bench = inadequate
- 1 year as starter + at least two on bench = below average (Matt Sanchez)
- 2 years as starter + at least 1 on bench = average (Sam Bradford/Blaine Gabbert)
- 3 years as starter = above average (Matt Stafford)
- 4 years as starter = elite (Colt McCoy)

Playmaking-Not just making a play on the run but when a play breaks down and the QB uses a mix of improvisation/decision making and athleticism to make a play.
Display the ability to turn a possible negative play into a positive. What can they do after the given play fails? (broken play, good coverage, pass protection breakdown etc)

Production/Efficiency-Based not only on raw stats and efficiency rating but, trying to consider and account for differences in overall team talent (pass protection, WR, number of draftable players on offense etc). e.g. Andrew Luck would be handicapped for playing behind one of the best OL in football for the past 2 season and only being sacked 12 times combined or Scott Tolzien for having 2 1,000 yard rushers in the same season.

Production baseline average baseline= 60% completions, 750+ attempts, 40+ passing touchdowns.

Size-

Throwing Motion- Mechanics/quick release/variety angles/consistency


Pro/NFL
-Pro-readiness/amount of NFL concepts in college offense

Injury - Clean bill of health, sustained major injuries/missed time (how much?)
Posted By: edromeo Film Breakdown: Throwing Motion - 03/19/18 12:10 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9AiYYUY9mls&list=PLIi2fitORCcZU377esdr8MQrzUgIFm436&index=23

^^These guys kind of nerd out too much but they have some info worth considering in regards to throwing motion of some of the top prospects.

Quote:
Originally Posted By: edromeo

TLDR:

If I was evaluating/ranking Throwing motion: Scale 1-5 1=Tebow 5=Namath

Allen=4
Darnold=2
Mayfield=3
Jackson=3
Rosen=4

How would you rate them in terms of throwing motion?

Originally Posted By: CHSDawg
Rosen 5 - Clear and away the best. It's very compact. It's not super quick like Jimmy G's, but he does a good job at quickly releasing the ball.

Allen 4 - To watch him throw the ball is a beauty. To watch him play QB is infuriating. Makes a lot of dumb throws and gets dumb ideas a lot. However, he is a great thrower.

Mayfield 4 - I like it, it's much more like a baseball stance than a football stance. I wonder if he'll be able to get enough room to open up his stance consistently in the NFL, but good thing he's not two inches taller so this wouldn't become a debate.

Darnold 3 - My biggest problem isn't with his hitch, it's with how low he holds the ball while in the pocket. That's just multiple strip sacks waiting to happen.

Lamar Jackson 3 - The gigantic problem with him is how narrow his stance is. His narrow base really limits his control and his power. Which is why so many of his balls sail over the middle. You give him a year or two to fix it and he could be money.
Great post. Nice to get back talking evaluation, instead of just bickering back and forth.

I rarely give out 5s in my ranking/evals. And on my eval criteria list I separate the categories. So for me throwing motion is separate from decision making, footwork. But, I don't have a separate category for carriage i.e. how a QB holds the ball so I mix that in with throwing motion when evaluating Darnold.

here's my criteria list btw:

https://www.dawgtalkers.net/ubbthreads.php/topics/1405407/edromeo#Post1405407

Anyhow i'll flesh my throwing motion rankings out a little:

Allen=4
Compact, quick, text book....picture perfect

Darnold=2
Loopy or "big" motion but still quick, low single handed carriage when he's throwing on the run

Mayfield=3
Compact, quick, can vary arm angles.....sometime unnecessarily, inconsistent with high maintaining a high release point

I've struggled with how to classify the QBs that vary their arm slot/arm angle. In once sense its good to be able to throw from different arm angles and slots. However for a shorter QB i think they need to have a more pronounced over the top throwing motion like a Russell Wilson or Drew Brees that almost exaggerate their high release point. Baker's release point even at it peak doesn't match theirs.

Jackson=3
Ultra quick (maybe the quickest?), compact, can vary arm angles sometime unnecessarily

(again for me I separate footwork into a different category so I don't knock his throwing motion for having a narrow base)

Rosen=4
Teaching tape throwing motion, not ultra quick but compact, consistent, smooth
Posted By: edromeo 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown: Weaknesses - 03/19/18 05:20 PM
CHS and whomever else...I've posed this question:

What do you view as the weakness(es) of ______________?

In the top 6 QB thread prospects threads.

I'm thinking of posing a series of questions about different skillset/traits of each prospect.

Would welcome your comments/suggestions...you know group effort type of thing.

Ranking/evaluating this years college crop of QBs based on skillset category seems like a good exercise for those posters interested in actual discussion of the prospects.

What categories do you look at?
Posted By: eotab Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown: Weaknesses - 03/20/18 05:25 AM
ed...I'm a K.I.S.S. kind of guy, I eliminate all QBs that have Accuracy issues for our pick at #1. Only Allen would get a break because of his lack of talent and coaching on his level and the improvement he has shown since going to the QB camps. But the rest. Lamar, Rudolf and I hate to say this. I squint on Darnold as he has some accuracy issues.

Which for me sort of leaves: Mayfield, Rosen and out of leftfield Allen.

jmho
Posted By: edromeo Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown: Weaknesses - 03/20/18 11:36 AM
Allen-Lack of production/efficiency (decision making) while playing at a lower level of competition, injury history, accuracy

Darnold-Throwing motion, turn-overs

Mayfield-Size, transition from OU's offense to NFL scheme, inconsistent release points

Jackson-Consistency in his stance too often throws with a narrow base, inconsistent release points

Rosen-Ability to avoid pressure that forces him out the pocket/situations that call for extend plays out of the pocket, injury history
Posted By: eotab Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown: Weaknesses - 03/20/18 12:46 PM
Mayfield-Size, transition from OU's offense to NFL scheme, inconsistent release points

I smell conveniently made up stuff there... tongue
Posted By: hitt Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown: Weaknesses - 03/20/18 05:33 PM
EO, you really overlook being publicly drunk, running from cops, and grabbing your crotch...he represents our team... we went thru Johnny not to long ago....he, Mansfield, can say he's not JM all he wants.....actions vs words...AND all his bluster, just like Manziel, let's wreck this league. OK, he's not small, but don't forget Manziel got hurt QUICKLY too. I much prefer Allen, even with percentage competition rate...put Allen on OK team and wonder what the results had been.....GO Browns!!!!
Originally Posted By: hitt
EO, you really overlook being publicly drunk, running from cops, and grabbing your crotch...he represents our team... we went thru Johnny not to long ago....he, Mansfield, can say he's not JM all he wants.....actions vs words...AND all his bluster, just like Manziel, let's wreck this league. OK, he's not small, but don't forget Manziel got hurt QUICKLY too. I much prefer Allen, even with percentage competition rate...put Allen on OK team and wonder what the results had been.....GO Browns!!!!


Allen was playing against bad teams also...

But I agree with some of the concerns with Mayfield.... I don't think we have the structure to control this type of players.

And losing is very hard on players, it takes a special kind of player to resist and improve when he is under the microscope and being blamed for the losses...
Posted By: edromeo Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 03/22/18 09:28 PM
reply to get a link, disregard
One thing to keep in mind is that Johnny's actions vs Baker's actions aren't the same. Johnny was a party animal. Baker is a homebody. You constantly hear they are the same person off the field but they really aren't.
Originally Posted By: devicedawg
One thing to keep in mind is that Johnny's actions vs Baker's actions aren't the same. Johnny was a party animal. Baker is a homebody. You constantly hear they are the same person off the field but they really aren't.


So Johnny has friends and no one likes to hang out with Baker cause he keeps grabbing his crotch, throwing stuff at folks heads, and breaking the law? Got it.

lol
Originally Posted By: PeteyDangerous
Originally Posted By: devicedawg
One thing to keep in mind is that Johnny's actions vs Baker's actions aren't the same. Johnny was a party animal. Baker is a homebody. You constantly hear they are the same person off the field but they really aren't.


So Johnny has friends and no one likes to hang out with Baker cause he keeps grabbing his crotch, throwing stuff at folks heads, and breaking the law? Got it.

lol



Not sure I follow that except that's not what I said.
Originally Posted By: devicedawg
Not sure I follow that except that's not what I said.


lol, just messing with ya man
Posted By: edromeo Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 03/27/18 03:24 PM
Posted By: edromeo Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 03/27/18 03:25 PM
Posted By: edromeo Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 03/27/18 03:26 PM
Posted By: edromeo Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 03/27/18 03:28 PM
Posted By: ExclDawg Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 03/27/18 03:31 PM
Those chart at least make me feel a "little" better about Josh Allen. Surprised that Josh Rosen scores so poorly in the Red Zone though.
Posted By: PortlandDawg Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 03/27/18 04:50 PM
Originally Posted By: ExclDawg
Those chart at least make me feel a "little" better about Josh Allen. Surprised that Josh Rosen scores so poorly in the Red Zone though.


His best receiving threat in college was Jordan Payton.
Take that for what it’s worth.
Posted By: dean_fairchild Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 03/27/18 05:29 PM
Jordan Payton was Josh Allen’s best receiver? You mean Josh Rosen? If it’s a vote for Josh Rosen not having much to throw to, who did Allen have to throw to?

Not arguing, Honestly don’t get your post.
Posted By: PortlandDawg Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 03/27/18 05:49 PM
Excl stated this...”Surprised that Josh Rosen scores so poorly in the Red Zone though.”

My reply was related to that. Rosen had Jordan as his ‘best’ receiver. Not much of a red zone threat.
I don’t know who Allen had to throw to but I can say with certainty that he was throwing against lesser defenses than Rosen either way.
I’d go so far as to guess that Rosen threw against more NFL DBs and LBs in single games than Allen threw against in an entire season.
Posted By: DiamDawg Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 03/27/18 06:18 PM
U dont watch much pac 10 football do u .... rofl ...
Posted By: PeteyDangerous Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 03/27/18 07:00 PM
Originally Posted By: DiamDawg
U dont watch much pac 10 football do u .... rofl ...


I know you're joking. But it's a legitimate question. I mean, Josh Allen played against inferior competition and didn't look like a superstar out there.


He never even was like 1st team MWAC. He was 2nd team in MWAC last year.

Look at other small school QBs. They all have awards. Tony Romo, Jimmy Garappollo, Carson Wentz, Chad Pennington, Byron Leftwich, Ben Roethlisberger. They all have these big time awards.

Josh Allen doesn't have anything to his resume other than 2nd team MWAC.
Posted By: PortlandDawg Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 03/27/18 07:20 PM
I do watch Pac 10 football. They may not play a lot of D but they put a lot of defensive players in the NFL each year.
A little quick research. In 2017 Rosen faced USC who fielded Adoree Jackson, a first round draft choice CB for the Saints, and Leon McQuay, an undrafted CB picked up by the Rams. In that game he also faced Stevie Tu’ikolovatu, a DT chosen in the 6th round by the 49’rs.
One game, three NFL caliber defensive players. I didn’t even check to see if Stanford or Washington or any other team had more.
So now the question is, did Allen face at least three NFL caliber players last year? I honestly don’t know.
Posted By: DiamDawg Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 03/27/18 07:48 PM
It was only a joke ... but ... ok ... i’ll play ...

If u want to ask those questions ... thats fair .. i get it and can see it ...

But then u open up ALL THESE QUESTIONS if you want to be fair ....

- how many nfl caliber players did Allen have on his team compared to Josh ...
- who were their coaches and what were their experiences ...
- were they behind or ahead a lot ...
- what kind of o did they run ...
- what kind of d did usc play against them ...

Not that it matters .. i get your point ... but Josh did not play against Adoree Jackson last year unless they scheduled the Titans by accident .. wink ...

There’s so many variables ... its one of the reasons why in football .... i’ll quote Mel Kiper here ... rofl ...

STATS ARE FOR LOSERS ... naughtydevil
Posted By: PortlandDawg Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 03/27/18 07:54 PM
Sorry. I meant Rosen faced those guys in 2016. Jackson and the rest were 2017 draft picks. My honest mistake.
Look I’m not arguing necessarily. I will say I don’t want Allen at 1. In my mind Rosen is the better prospect.
All the coaching and everything of course is different. That can’t be argued. I was merely showing that my assumption of Rosen playing against more NFL talent was correct. Which it was. The rest I don’t care to argue. It’s a dead horse at this point.


FYI Jackson went to the Saints not the Titans.
Posted By: DiamDawg Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 03/27/18 07:56 PM
Them damm dead horses are everywhere around here ... their littering up the place ... *LOL* ...

Its all we gots this time of year ... in a month we’ll have a few new horses ... thumbsup
Posted By: dean_fairchild Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 03/29/18 04:10 PM
www.cfbstats.com does a good job breaking down situational and split stats


Rosen is also playing WITH a lot more NFL talent, if you’re gonna use the arguement Rosen is playing against better talent you can’t ignore the fact he’s playing with better talent too.
Posted By: Hammer Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 03/29/18 05:04 PM
Ummmm, No - Jackson was drafted in the 1st round by the Tennessee Titans with the 18th pick.
Posted By: PortlandDawg Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 03/29/18 05:43 PM
Originally Posted By: Hammer
Ummmm, No - Jackson was drafted in the 1st round by the Tennessee Titans with the 18th pick.


My bad. Not sure why I got that in my head. Either way, my point stands that Rosen likely faced more NFL talent in one game than Allen faced in his season.
Posted By: PortlandDawg Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 03/29/18 06:07 PM
Originally Posted By: dean_fairchild
www.cfbstats.com does a good job breaking down situational and split stats


Rosen is also playing WITH a lot more NFL talent, if you’re gonna use the arguement Rosen is playing against better talent you can’t ignore the fact he’s playing with better talent too.


Yes Rosen did play with better talent than Allen. In two seasons Rosen’s only NFL level receiving threat, to my knowledge, was Jordan Payton... and we’ve seen his NFL play. So it’s not as though UCLA had a great NFL worthy offensive roster around him.
Who’d Wyoming play again?
Apples to apples Rosen has faced more NFL talent. Period. That was my only point.
Could Allen turn out to be the best QB in this class? Sure. So could Rosen, Darnold, or White or anyone else we’re not even thinking about. Another Cousins type guy that surprises everyone.
Posted By: edromeo Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 03/30/18 12:15 AM
Originally Posted By: PortlandDawg
Originally Posted By: ExclDawg
Those chart at least make me feel a "little" better about Josh Allen. Surprised that Josh Rosen scores so poorly in the Red Zone though.


His best receiving threat in college was Jordan Payton.
Take that for what it’s worth.
Just an fyi in case you are unfamiliar with PFF's metrics. They don't grade the outcome of the pass itself so the positively graded throws and adjusted completion percentages in the RZ factor in WR drops, QBs being hit while throwing, spikes, throw aways and batted balls.

One more note about UCLA receiving talent I meant to add but didn't want to post until I found the graphic:
Posted By: eotab Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 03/30/18 06:58 AM
j/c...

Mayfield is amazing.
Posted By: edromeo Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 03/31/18 10:52 PM

I thought I already posted this^^
Posted By: edromeo Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 04/01/18 01:16 AM
need a link, disregard
Posted By: edromeo Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 04/01/18 01:26 AM
Posted By: eotab Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 04/05/18 07:34 PM
I've been touting this QB class as one of the best in a long long time and how we are finally in the right place at the right time to be picking #1 and get the pick of the litter.

I think the scouting place is saying best in 15 years.


http://www.clevelandbrowns.com/news/arti...db-a94bb43d4fa6
Posted By: edromeo Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 04/06/18 12:50 PM
Spread QBs:





Later round spread QBs:

(sleeper late round QB/udfa)



Non-spread:





Posted By: DiamDawg Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 04/06/18 01:55 PM
J/c

Baker Mayfield - QB - Player

An "NFC quarterbacks coach" told MMQB's Albert Breer Oklahoma QB Baker Mayfield is "the most accurate signal-caller he’s ever evaluated coming out of college."

"He doesn’t miss throws," the coach continued. Mayfield has been knocked for his size (6-foot-1) and the offense he ran at Oklahoma, but he is exceptionally accurate and a natural playmaker. He seems destined to be a top-10 selection.

Source: MMQB Apr 5 - 10:23 AM
Posted By: PeteyDangerous Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 04/06/18 04:57 PM
Originally Posted By: DiamDawg
J/c

Baker Mayfield - QB - Player

An "NFC quarterbacks coach" told MMQB's Albert Breer Oklahoma QB Baker Mayfield is "the most accurate signal-caller he’s ever evaluated coming out of college."

"He doesn’t miss throws," the coach continued. Mayfield has been knocked for his size (6-foot-1) and the offense he ran at Oklahoma, but he is exceptionally accurate and a natural playmaker. He seems destined to be a top-10 selection.

Source: MMQB Apr 5 - 10:23 AM


I dunno, if he's the most accurate. But Mayfield is definitely very accurate. The guy's a very good football player. Love to have him on the Browns.

He's only an inch and a half shorter than Mitch Trubisky. The guy can play
Posted By: eotab Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 04/06/18 06:52 PM
Been saying that for how long Diam... wink
Posted By: DiamDawg Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 04/06/18 07:05 PM
Your pretty good at this qb stuff bro ... thumbsup
Posted By: edromeo Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 04/09/18 12:58 AM
Non-Spread QB raw counting stats + 2017 PFF Adjusted comp%*+ espn QBR

QB...................YR..Yards...Atts....Pct........Y/A...TD..INT...PSR.....QBR
Josh Allen..........16...3203.....373....56........8.6...28...15.....145........74 (#26 NCAA)
Josh Allen..........17...1812.....270....56.3......6.7...16....6.....128........53 (#75 NCAA)
Career..........................................56.2
2017........................................PFF ACP 65.7

Lamar Jackson...15...1804.....247.....54.7.....7.4...12....8......128........72 (#27 NCAA)
Lamar Jackson...16...3543.....409.....56.2.....8.7...30....9......149........85 (#4 NCAA)
Lamar Jackson...17...3660.....430.....59.1.....8.5...27....10......147........85 (#4 NCAA)
Career...........................................57
2017.........................................PFF ACP 73.3

Josh Rosen........15...3670.....487.....60.......7.5...23....11......134........68 (#39 NCAA)
Josh Rosen........16...1915.....231.....58.3.....8.3...10.....5......139........58 (#67 NCAA)
Josh Rosen........17...3756.....452.....62.6.....8.3...26....10......147........66 (#45 NCAA)
Career...........................................60.9
2017........................................PFF ACP 74.6

Sam Darnold......16...3086....366.....67.2.....8.4...31.....9.......161........86 (#45 NCAA)
Sam Darnold......17...4143....480.....63.1.....8.6...26.....13......148........75 (#3 NCAA)
Career..........................................64.9
2017..........................................PFF ACP 71.3

*PFF Adjusted Completion Percentage factors in drops, spikes, throw-aways, batted balls and hit while throwing*
Posted By: bonefish Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 04/09/18 02:30 AM
Interesting.

Mayfield has dominant stats.

He is accurate. However, in a NFL offense you have to be able to time drops to route patterns and fit balls into that window with anticipation.


Darnold does it better than anyone. He sees things others do not.

As the one guy said. Crunch time. Big plays when big plays are needed.

College is now behind these guys. It is about being
In the NFL now and over a career.

You have to project these players into the pros.


I am taking Darnold seven days a week. With Rosen close behind.

Mayfield third. Allen fourth. Why gamble?
Posted By: hitt Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 04/09/18 03:41 PM
SI posted film analysis of Allen- changed protection package but didn't react to LB blitz, also locks on receivers/ no anticipation.....I'm jumping ship- USC all the way.....GO Browns!!!
Posted By: devicedawg Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 04/09/18 06:19 PM
Quote:
SI posted film analysis of Allen- changed protection package but didn't react to LB blitz, also locks on receivers/ no anticipation.....



Is this sorta what you're alluding to?

Josh Allen


I like to think this is why he's not going to be our #1 pick... If he is, we're in deep doo doo.
Posted By: devicedawg Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 04/09/18 07:58 PM
I'll put this here for anyone who is interested. I think some have already read this. I haven't finished and I didn't want to lose the link.

NDT Scouting
Posted By: edromeo Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 04/09/18 08:15 PM
Great link. Ty.

I read the parts of this report that were posted on Twitters here and there.
Reading through the top guys now.

Plenty of convo worthy observations....but most are too locked onto 'their' guy and seem to post only towards that agenda.
Posted By: devicedawg Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 04/09/18 11:37 PM
Quote:

Plenty of convo worthy observations....but most are too locked onto 'their' guy and seem to post only towards that agenda.



I know a lot people have their favorites. I'm probably considered to be in this group you name, but I believe most of us are receptive to other possibilities.

I think it's when people get attacked and slammed for their opinions by certain posters that ruins it for everyone. Plus a lot of things are just fabricated as reasons for not liking a player. I've been told "thousands of short quarterbacks fail," "Mayfield is inaccurate because he throws to wide open spaces," and "Mayfield has an impulse disorder." None of these things are accurate.

I think when people see untruths such as these, they end up fighting harder for their own guy.
Posted By: devicedawg Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 04/09/18 11:44 PM
I might have posted this somewhere else but couldn't find it...

Another fun link...


qbase
Posted By: W84NxtYrAgain Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 04/10/18 12:00 AM
Originally Posted By: devicedawg
[quote]
"Mayfield has an impulse disorder."
For the record, I have said he lacks impulse control. YOU are the one who decided that comment equates to me claiming he has a psychological 'disorder.' I stand by my statement, he has repeatedly shown that he acts on impulse without thinking through the consequences. Maybe he grows up, maybe he doesn't. I still don't want that to be the face of the franchise.

That said, he is one of the top quarterbacks and the most accurate. I would grudgingly accept him.
Posted By: edromeo Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 04/12/18 09:56 PM
[img]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DZjxsNEXkAA9Hv6?format=jpg[/img]
Posted By: Bull_Dawg Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 04/12/18 10:23 PM
I'm kind of curious as to how those numbers compare to the NFL. I'm sure there is some disparity between the two levels, but I'm not sure it would necessarily be as great as one might expect.

When looking at teams vs. the Browns in particular, I imagine the "Beyond first read" share would be quite low (last year especially).
Posted By: edromeo Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 04/12/18 10:56 PM
Which numbers?
Posted By: edromeo Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 04/16/18 03:56 PM
https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/draft-2018-nfl-draft-narrative-busters
Posted By: bbrowns32 Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 04/16/18 05:10 PM


Thanks, ed! An eye-opening read...
Posted By: edromeo Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 04/21/18 05:42 PM
Posted By: edromeo Re: 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown - 10/04/20 01:09 PM
Originally Posted By: edromeo
Early eval 2018 raw scores unweighted (subject to change)

QB Eval----Acc-----Arm----Ath/Esc-----Drop/Foot-----Exp-----Play-----Prod/Eff----Size----Thr/Mot—Pro/NFL
Allen-------2.5-------5---------4-------------4------------3--------4----------2----------5---------5----------3----(37.5)
Darnold-----4--------3---------4-------------4------------3--------4----------4----------4---------2----------3----(35)
Jackson-----3--------4---------5-------------3-----------3.5-------5----------5----------3---------3----------3-----(37.5)
Mayfield-----4--------3---------4------------3------------5---------4----------4----------2---------3----------4----(36)
Rosen-------5--------4---------2-------------5------------3--------1-----------3----------3---------5----------5-----(36)
Just revisiting QB prospect grade rankings after 3 years

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