I agree with most of your post except I can see the case for taking him at #1 if he's "the guy". The accuracy issue isn't much of an issue for me personally because I think there are correctable mechanical issues that will greatly improve that aspect of his game, and I think pre & post snap coaching, time in system, and NFL calibre WRs will also improve that aspect. The one shortcoming that concerns me most is his propensity to see/throw instead of relying on timing and anticipation. He does have the gun to make it work but it is another factor that affects accuracy and may consistently get him into trouble when faced with the speedy DBs and tight windows in the NFL. Having the ability to see/throw/complete is a great asset, one that will factor into the decision to take him, but relying on it soley would be detrimental.

We can agree to disagree on whether or not a QB with Allen's resume warrants the #1 overall selection. If the Browns did it, I would understand and wouldn't have a meltdown. I would expect the cleanest prospect to go #1 overall and although Allen has the most potential I don't think he's the cleanest prospect.

Although accuracy and comp % are linked I separate them. Allen like all prospects is gonna have to become a much better player in the NFL then he was in college. I think Allen enters the league as the with the a much higher propensity to miss throws then the other QB prospects in this draft class. I don't have an issue with his accuracy; I just think it needs to be judged and compared in the right context and for me that part of his grade is low.

I am certain his comp% will increase because Wyoming passing game featured some ridiculous throws as staples of their offense eg. 15+ yards deep outs thrown from the opposite hash to the far sideline.

I'm not sure you'll can coach anticipation into a QB. I'm not sure if/how much Jay Cutler, Cam Newton and Joe Flacco have improved their ability to throw with anticipation. The offense you built around Allen will have to account for that.

Well stated, Edromeo.

I posted this in the other thread its a good listen:

https://player.fm/series/nfl-move-the-sticks-with-daniel-jeremiah-bucky-brooks/ep-281-josh-allen-360



This is the shorter version:

http://www.giants.com/videos/videos/MTS-Best-of-Josh-Allen-360/08e64643-d310-4fec-a9b9-f64954c6599c

Yeah, I don't know that we really disagree. You're saying he shouldn't be taken at #1 but could be and I'm saying I can understand why he would be. Lol. I appreciate your takes.

Excellent posts. I agree with both of your assessments.

Thanks for posting, fun listen. Good stuff from Palmer and the other trainer. Love hearing about the improved mechanics, and the point about the lack of talent around him is very valid. Great kid too. He has so much to offer in terms of physical gifts, smarts & upside potential it makes me want to draft him.

Should the Jets be afraid of Josh Allen's low completion percentage?

http://www.espn.com/blog/new-york-jets/p...tion-percentage

The weekly New York Jets mailbag focuses on a couple of hot-button issues surrounding the team:


Matt_Woodrum
@MattWoodrum3
@RichCimini why are so many people scared of J. Allen heading to the jets? Completion % means nothing. Look at Favre and Montana’s completion % in college. Absolutely comparable! I think he would be a great fit for the jets. #jetsmail

12:43 PM - Mar 29, 2018
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@RichCimini: Matt, you sound like Mel Kiper Jr., who recently said "stats are for losers" when referring to Josh Allen's 56.2 career completion percentage at Wyoming. Mel is a huge Allen supporter, as you probably know.

For the record, Brett Favre was 52.4 in college, Joe Montana 52.0, but the game has changed a lot since then. The game is made for passing, and completion percentages should be higher nowadays. So, yes, I disagree with your comparison. By the way, neither Favre nor Montana was a top draft pick. Favre was a second-rounder, Montana a third. When you're picking as high as the Jets (No. 3), every blemish becomes magnified and deserves intense scrutiny.

Allen's percentage is concerning. Mel believes it's due, in part, to not having as many "layups" (short passes) as the other top prospects. I did the research via ESPN Stats & Information, and that is not true. In fact, Allen had more short passes than the others. Consider: 30 percent of his attempts traveled zero to five air yards, more than UCLA's Josh Rosen (29 percent), USC's Sam Darnold (28 percent) and Oklahoma's Baker Mayfield (18 percent).

Did Allen take more downfield shots than the others, lowering his completion percentage? Not really. The breakdown of attempts that went 25 or more air yards: Darnold (12 percent), Mayfield (12 percent), Allen (11 percent) and Rosen (5 percent).

Was Allen victimized by a lot of drops? Not really. Wyoming's drop percentage was 4.2 percent, a fraction higher than the national average (4.1). The guy who really got burned by drops was Rosen; UCLA's drop percentage was 6.3. Oklahoma was 3.6 and USC was 3.0.

I will say this about Allen: His accuracy was sharper in the postseason, meaning the Potato Bowl, the Senior Bowl and his scouting combine/pro days workouts. He has been working with quarterback guru Jordan Palmer, and scouts believe he has cleaned up his mechanical issues. That is encouraging for the Jets, who absolutely love his arm talent.

________________

and we've seen the theories around these boards as well.

so, to recap, he had more short throws than others, didn't suffer from as many drops as others, and didn't throw the ball downfield more than others.

why is he being considered as a top 5 prospect, again?

potential? odd because when i mentioned lamar's potential, guys like bone said i couldnt do that.

Rosen
Lamar
Darnold
Baker
Rudolph
some other dudes
Allen

He also threw a significantly less number of passes than any of the other QBs.

Allen - 270
Rosen - 452
Darnold - 480
Mayfield - 404
Jackson - 430
Rudolph - 489

Interesting.

Happy Egg Day.

Honestly I find it hard to believe that Allen is in the picture as the first pick.

It is based upon his potential. That is a false premise when looking at the first pick in the draft.

Allen would have to be incredibly impressive in the private workouts.

It is easy to look at Allen and his arm and convince yourself even as he has shown improvement in the draft process. How can you be sure it will be there when in a NFL game ?

I like the young man. And his potential is off the charts. But you can't go there with the first in the draft.

He would be worth the gamble mid to late first round.

If the Browns do draft him at one; they would have to be sure he will reach that potential in a year.

Certainly Rosen and Darnold do not present that kind of risk.

The closer we get, the more I think that Allen is the pick.

I'm starting to feel the same.

It would be the Browns thing to do. To have the #1 overall pick and then draft the worst QB in the draft.

Is it just a feeling or is there a reason you think this?

IMO the 2 biggest assets I look for are accuracy and anticipation.

Package all that with size and you got your franchise guy. You can add in leadership, speed, pocket presence, and arm strength but without accuracy as the #1 attribute I pass.

Bud Shaw's Sports Spin

Wyoming QB Josh Allen is a small town guy with a big-time arm -- Bud Shaw

April 2, 2018

By Bud Shaw, cleveland.com


CLEVELAND, Ohio - The farmland near Josh Allen's hometown is known as the Cantaloupe Capital of the World.

In that part of California's Central Valley more recognized for bountiful crops than for cultivating NFL quarterbacks, the town of Firebaugh, population 8,311, is located 20 miles from the nearest freeway.

Its claim to fame is subjective, for now. The sandlot scene from Kenny Rogers' music video "The Greatest" was filmed in Firebaugh. That's not a claim to fame as much as it is Wikipedia notoriety.

The town is also known for the Farmer's Daughter restaurant, once owned and operated by Allen's mother and semi-famous for its Godzilla burger. LaVonne Allen sold off the restaurant when the family began traveling to watch University of Wyoming football games.

The high school gym is named after Allen's grandfather, Buzz. Josh's sister is the leading scorer for the Firebaugh girls basketball team. "A scoring machine," a former Firebaugh High coach calls Makenna Allen. The school opened in 1976. Its colors are appropriately patriotic. The mascot is an eagle. School enrollment is predominantly Hispanic.

"California is a monster, recruiting-wise," said Wyoming offensive coordinator Brent Vigen, one of the few talent evaluators to find his way to town to meet the Allen family after watching Josh on tape.


"There is a long long list of typical places for a recruiter to stop. Firebaugh is not one of them. The college recruiters who knew where Firebaugh was before Josh was a pretty small (group)."

Many of the young people in Firebaugh have experience working what Bill Magnusson, Allen's high school football coach, calls "the most productive farmland on Planet Earth."

If the 6-5, 235-pound Allen looks like the classic American farm boy, the casting call is not that much of a stretch. But it wasn't always the case. A delayed growth spurt helped keep him below the recruiting radar in a outpost town.

All sports were Allen's passion

"(We had) a 2,000-acre operation, my dad owned a thousand acres of it," Allen said at the NFL combine. "Strictly row crops of cotton, cantaloupe and wheat. During the summers, (my chores were) helping my dad move irrigation pipe, picking cotton, picking weeds in the cotton field, driving disc tractors, whatever the case may be.

"It wasn't an everyday thing and my dad kind of experienced that throughout his high school career. Our out was sports and that's what we did. We stayed competitive year-round to try to stay off the field as much as we can, but we did help out quite a bit."


Allen played football, baseball and basketball in high school. In some ways, his decision not to specialize may have cost him with recruiters. Firebaugh's basketball coach, Jim McCall, coached two generations of Allens over his 43 years on the job and says Josh "finally just blossomed when he got to focus on one sport."

Basketball gave way to baseball which gave way to training for football and then the football season itself. Magnusson remembers Allen climbing out of his truck with friends to lift weights after a day in the field, dirty from the work. He'd stay late, then rise at 5 a.m. and do it all over again the next summer day.

"He had his advanced degree from the FFA (Future Farmer's Association) said Magnusson. "He comes from a family of winners with a great work ethic.

"A lot of Americans don't get up as early as some of these kids get up in the summer. If I were a football coach in the NFL, I'd be looking for a guy like Josh. Especially if I'm the Cleveland Browns."

Well, funny you should say that.

Firebaugh is the kind of town where you can someday soon imagine a sign planted at the town outskirts: "Home of Josh Allen, NFL Quarterback." No tourism dollars to reap, the motivation, as is the custom across America, would be unbridled small-town pride.


Or, if the Browns agree with the early projection of draftnik Mel Kiper Jr., maybe the sign will be even more specific: "Home of Josh Allen, No. 1 pick in the 2018 NFL Draft."


From junior college to Laramie

As an overlooked player from a small farming town, Allen accepted one of the only scholarships offered him, and it required a year of junior college for him to get even that. Indiana showed interest after Allen threw for 2,055 yards and 25 TDs at Reedley J.C. (where one of the coaches was married to a cousin of Allen's). But the Hoosiers didn't offer him a scholarship.

Maybe when your breakout games are against Gavilan and Merced (470 yards, seven TDs in that one), word still travels but not so fast or so far and wide as you might like. But Wyoming and Eastern Michigan offered Allen scholarships and Wyoming head coach Craig Bohl and offensive coordinator Brent Vigen heard about this "special player" at Reedley and visited Firebaugh to find out more.

Bohl and Vigen came from North Dakota State where Carson Wentz starred. It didn't take them long to see similarities, not only in size and mobility. They saw both quarterbacks throw live for the first time on their first day of practice with their respective schools.


"(Josh's) biggest attribute is his ability to extend plays with his legs and then be able to get the ball in different places while he's moving," Bohl recently told Pro Football Talk Live.

"When a quarterback can roll to his left and then throw the ball 60-some yards on a rope, that really stresses a defense."

Vigen says Allen is a "slightly" better athlete than Wentz with a "slightly" stronger arm. He gives Wentz the edge in touch. And, of course, if Allen can make the transition to the NFL half as well as Wentz did, everyone involved would be happy.

"You knew they had special arm talent," Vigen said. "Sometime the ball just sounds different with guys who can sling it."

One NFL team looking for a franchise quarterback will make the same determination coaches have made about Allen all along. They will take him knowing he's raw but betting that his arm, competitiveness, size and instincts will trump issues with mechanics and accuracy.

Allen did not start immediately at Reedley. At Wyoming, he sat (though not for long) behind Indiana transfer Cameron Coffman. There were flashes and then setbacks. In his first start for Wyoming, Allen broke his clavicle on a 24-yard run and was finished for the season.


"It happened 13 plays into (the game)," said Vigen. "It allowed him for the first time to focus on the weight room and that's where he made his biggest gains."

As a redshirt sophomore in 2016, Allen was terrific in a season-opening overtime win against Northern Illinois but followed that with a six-turnover game in a blowout loss to Nebraska.


A final season, but with flaws

He completed 56 percent of his passes, throwing for 28 TDs and 15 interceptions. Despite that completion percentage, the days of flying under the radar were over.

Allen came close to declaring for the draft after that season. Despite the Cowboys limping to the finish line with four losses in their last five games, Allen was projected as a high pick who would only become more coveted once talent evaluators saw his arm up close at the combine and workouts.

But after talking to Wentz over the phone, Allen decided to return to Laramie for one more season. He had moments in 2017 for sure. But he also suffered another injury (this one to his shoulder against Air Force), Overall, he didn't have the kind of season that dispelled concerns about his accuracy issues.

He completed 56.3 percent of his passes for 16 TDs and six interceptions. Vigen says there were mitigating factors. Dropped passes. Allen learned to throw the ball away.


"We were 7-3 when he got hurt against Air Force," Vigen said. "I thought he was playing as well as he'd played for us before the injury."

The Cowboys lost their all-time leading rusher, Brian Hall, after the 2016 season. Three top receivers declared for the draft. To his credit, Allen didn't use any of that as an excuse when asked about his poor completion percentage at the combine. He says he's improved in that area by dedicating himself to better footwork.

"(But) without live bullets and live action coming at you, we're not going to find that out until game time situations, whether that be in minicamp or any of those events leading up to the season," Allen said. "But I'm extremely confident in myself and we're working on it and there's no doubt in my mind that we'll figure it out."

Can dedication, leadership outweigh accuracy concerns?

Would the Browns bet on a strong-armed quarterback with accuracy issues one year after drafting DeShone Kizer and just one month after trading Kizer to the Green Bay Packers?

Allen's coaches point out he was responsible for helping turn programs around wherever he's been, that his teammates love him, that he keeps getting better. They point to the Senior Bowl in Mobile where he finished strong after a ragged start to the practice week.


Bill Magnusson, the Firebaugh coach who heard Allen's name for the first time when Allen was a little kid dominating swim meets, says he would be perfect for Cleveland. He brings up the movie Draft Day.

"Let's just say if Josh ever had a birthday party like in the movie, you wouldn't have to worry about teammates showing up. The offensive line would be there, the receivers would be there, the defensive guys. They'd all be there. Including the kicker."

"It's awesome," Allen said at the scouting combine in Indianapolis when asked about the support he felt growing up in such a small town. "I get texts and calls from everybody back home just wishing me luck.

"Sometimes it's a little crazy to get back to every single one of them. I can't thank them enough for everything they've done."

What the people of Firebaugh have done in addition to traveling to watch Wyoming play when geographically feasible is put the administration at Fresno State on notice for failing to recruit their favorite son.

Via the Casper Star Tribune in Wyoming comes this story: When new Fresno State head coach alum Jim Tedford was introduced in 2016 after three losing seasons, the school's athletic director wanted to put everyone at ease about Tedford as a recruiter. In a reference to Allen's status as The One Who Got Away, Tedford was introduced with the assurance that he "knows where Firebaugh is."


But it wasn't just Fresno State that didn't consider Allen a scholarship candidate. There was a consensus on that topic.

Magnusson says Allen, who was 6-3, 180 pounds, didn't target one sport while in high school. He also starred in basketball and baseball.

"We talked once his junior year and he said, "Coach do you think I should start lifting and eating like a horse?" said Magnusson. "I told him, no. Be a superstar. Do all you can do in sports you love to play."

So he did. And went unheralded. At least until now, or whenever his name is called in the NFL draft.

Allen wore a smile at the scouting combine in Indianapolis that suggested he's aware of the fantastic turn of events his football career has taken since his Firebaugh-Reedley JC days.

"I was begging teams to get me a scholarship, sending emails out and hoping to hear back from them and I got one opportunity," said Allen, beaming.

His next opportunity could come in Cleveland, which is more famous for a 0-16 Browns season than for having a franchise quarterback.

For now.


http://www.cleveland.com/budshaw/index.ssf/2018/04/wyoming_qb_josh_allen_is_a_sma.html

I am kind of thinking the same thing.

I want Rosen #1. I am OK with Darnold instead.

But I am starting to wonder if they go with Allen. If so, it strikes me as a pick to show you are the smartest guy in the room. It's a huge risk, all based on being able to coach this guy into an NFL QB. Outside of arm strength, which is not close to being the most important attribute, what about him is NFL ready, right now?

See, the closer we get, the more I think Darnold will be the pick.


Listening to Browns Daily and Nate Ulrich, they really don't see Allen as part of the conversation. And the guys on Browns Daily are actually inside the building. That's where they work. John Dorsey knocks on their window when he passes by and they're broadcasting

They seem to think it's Darnold or Baker Mayfield. That's what I'm thinking. I think Rosen, for whatever reason, isn't a fit.

There suffering from BBFS ... Battered Browns Fan Syndrome ... we’ve seen the same movie 20 times over the last 20 years ... BLOWN PICK after BLOWN PICK after BLOWN PICK ...

What we’ve done would seem statistically impossible ... just throwing darts at a board u would have done better than us ... seriously .... look at records since our return ... our record bares that out ...

Its what we expect ... can u blame us? ...

I have faith in these guys ... they all ready brought in TT ... best qb we’ve had since our return ... and i’m no fan of his ... he won’t hurt u with turnovers but he will have some very less than stellar overall performances ... his accuracy can be spotty ...

With that said we’ve got the best weapons by far and offensive coaches he’s ever worked with ... we can win with him this year while the rook sits and learns .... hes not the future but hes the best we’ve had since our return ... witch is more an indictment of how inept we’ve been than how good TT is ...

I trust these guys to get this pick right ... taking Allen wouldn’t be my choice and I wouldn’t be thrilled with it ... but i’ll trust them and hope like hell they got it right ...

I NO LONGER SUFFER FROM BBFS ....

It wouldn't shock me.

I don't think there is any way to know whether or not the Browns opinion of Allen has changed.

Allen is uber talented and has tons of potential.
There many flaws in his game.
I think he would be gamble to select with pick #1 or #4.

But another way to view Allen situation is through the lens of situation.
IF the Browns draft the QB based on potential think could view their current situation as an ideal place where they put on him on the shelf to sit and develop (ala Aaron Rodgers/Green Bay where a lot of the scouting department comes from) then they could do that for at least the entire season....maybe longer.

Josh Allen - QB - Player

MMQB's Peter King was told by a "friend of Cleveland GM John Dorsey" the Browns will select Wyoming QB Josh Allen with the No. 1 overall pick.

Source: MMQB

If this turns out to be true ... the honeymoon will come to a very quick end ... *LOL* .... this place would EXPLODE .... ...

Nothing to point at specifically. Just a combination of interviews, articles, and knowing Doresy likes a big arm.

Allen is the type of player that grows on GM's. He checks all the boxes. Accuracy is the only issue, and accuracy is one thing most GM's and coaches feel can be improved upon since it is mostly a mechanical issue.

I dunno. I'm pretty against Josh Allen.

I'm having trouble trusting them if this was their choice.

I mean, Jesus. This is the most important pick we've had in a long long long time.

God I hope they don't screw this up.

Josh Allen
Positives:
1) Strong Arm
2) Athletic
3) Big Hands
4) Tall
5) Good at Wonderlick Test

Negatives
1) Inconsistent Accuracy
2) Doesn't throw with anticipation
3) Questionable decision making
4) Hasn't had much success in a small conference
5) Virtually no awards in a small conference - SHOW ME A FREAKING SMALL SCHOOL QB WITH NO AWARDS!


HOW THE HELL CAN ANYONE JUSTIFY PICKING THIS GUY NUMBER ONE!



Honestly, if we select this guy, I'm gonna have a melt down. I can't take this much anymore. Losing and losing. Watching us screw up over and over. Everything failing.

Now we have the number 1 pick, three viable QBs who should be quality starters in the NFL right in front of us, and we're thinking about [censored] Josh Allen.


I just can't take it. I have to believe they aren't this stupid

Be ready. I think it could happen.

Yeah, i think i'll jump off the freakin tugboat into the middle of the Gulf Of Mexico.


It's so depressing. How can they do this kind of crap.

I wish I could figure out how to become a Giants fan. Instead I'm obsessed with the Cleveland Browns; watching us lose over and over and over. Fail after fail after fail.


And then Josh Allen. Or should I say Jemarcus Allen. I mean, jesus christ.

I like to think these NFL Guys are smart. But really? I dunno. I wonder if I can do a better job

As Diam and others have said, you just have to trust the process. I might not like it either, but it is what it is.

Trust the process, lol.

Who was the coach that kept talking about "the process"? Eric Mangenius?

The one who traded down and netted us superstars like Kenyon Coleman and Abram Elam?



It's hard to trust anything with this team. Especially when I can see something so freaking stupid right in front of my eyes. I can't see any possible reason why we would draft this guy. Why do we keep getting linked to him?

The Giants win superbowls, i havent seen him linked to them. Dorsey needs to get a clue!

Calm down. We are linked to a few guys. Nobody links us to Mayfield. Maybe we want it that way, but with the #1 overall, it isn't as important to blow smoke with that pick.

Found This Searching the Internet on QB's Who Had A Less Than 60% Pass Completion Rating in College It's Not Me But I Do Agree With It ...

let's look at the QBs drafted in the first round since 2000:

Of these 42 QBs, these QBs career completion percentages were below 60% in college:
1. Michael Vick
2. Joey Harrington
3. Patrick Ramsey
4. Carson Palmer
5. Kyle Boller (below 50%)
6. J.P. Losman
7. Jay Cutler
8. Brady Quinn
9. Matt Ryan
10. Matthew Stafford
11. Josh Freeman
12. Jake Locker

Counting Vick, Palmer, Cutler, Ryan, and Stafford as the non-busts...that gives us a 5/12 success rate (41.7%). Removing these 12 QBs, that leaves you win 30 QBs. After omitting the 5 QBs drafted in the past two years (since it's too early to make a call on them), that leaves us with 25 QBs. Out of those 25 QBs, these are the guys that I'd label as busts:
1. David Carr
2. Byron Leftwich
3. Rex Grossman
4. Jason Campbell
5. Vince Young
6. Matt Leinart
7. JaMarcus Russell
8. Mark Sanchez
9. Tim Tebow
10. Christian Ponder
11. Blaine Gabbert
12. Brandon Weeden
13. E.J. Manuel

I didn't count Sam Bradford as a bust. That leaves us with 12 out of 25 QBs as non-busts. That's a success rate of 48%.

Basically, there's very little difference in your success rate. Refusing to draft Allen in the first round because of this one stat seems very suspect to me. It reminds me of the people claiming they wouldn't draft Jameis Winston because he threw 28 INTs over his final 2 college seasons including 18 INTs as a senior.

Evaluate the player, not the stats. If you don't like Allen because of the things you see in his game, so be it. You're entitled to your evaluation of the kid.

It's just not that easy when i'm reading MMQB headlines saying Dorsey's buddy thinks we'll take Allen 1 now.


Here's a way for the Browns to gain my trust. Select Rosen, Mayfield, or Darnold. Any of them. Just not Josh Allen. If they want Josh Allen, select the guy at 4. If they have to select Josh Allen at 1, then select one of the guys I mentioned at 4.

Then I'd feel better.

Because you blow a QB pick, and you set yourself back pretty far. We only have Tyrod Taylor for one year.

If that's the QB we select, Josh Allen, I'll be ready to see John Dorsey out the door.



But, I have to have faith that these reports are nothing. Maybe we're drumming up support for a trade down at the number 4 spot. Because thinking about Josh Allen at 1 isn't good for my blood pressure.

Normally, I can talk myself into decisions. Just the homer I am. This one, not happening. This is Paxton Lynch. It's Jemarcus Russell. It's a disaster. Or should I say, a continuance of a disaster.


I wish we just got Kirk Cousins at this point. Paid him whatever he wanted. I'd rather have given the 4th pick of the draft for Alex Smith than get Josh Allen.

I've seen tape of Josh Allen. I'm not impressed

Here's a clue. Find me a small school college player whose only accolade is 2nd Team (once). Find me one that's been successful. That might make me feel better. Big Ben, Derek Carr, Tony Romo, Jimmy Garapollo, Joe Flacco, Carson Wentz, Chad Pennington, Byron Leftwich; they all have awards. Every single one of them.


How can we possibly justify drafting a guy at number 1 who isn't even one of the best in his own conference (that being the Mountain West Conference)

Do you think John Dorsey, savvy, proven and well respected NFL GM John Dorsey, is gonna let thee most important franchise information 'slip' this casually?

I said at the beginning that I didn't write this, but I agree with what he is saying about not all QB's that had below 60% completions turn out to be bad QB's in the NFL, I want Darnold but if they were to draft Allen I wouldn't freak out because I have to trust that Dorsey sees something in the kid we don't ...

Sure hope not. I just wish this was over and done with.


But as was said earlier, being this discreet and smoke screening the number 1 pick. What's the point?



I've trusted a lot of things man. Think of how many "saviors" we've had for this franchise. Phil Savage (draft guru), Tom Heckert, whoever that guy Mangini brought in, Joe Banner/Mike Lombardi, Ray Farmer. Whoever Butch Davis had (that's when I started seriously following the team). All failed.

I've been fed this story a lot. I'm excited about John Dorsey. Seems like a good one.


But it's hard to have faith when you see something that just doesn't make any sense with your eyes.

Yeah, but I don't presume the rumor to be accurate.

The reason not to announce the pick early is for competitive advantage. The other teams have an easier time setting their board when they know who the Browns are going to pick.

There is no denying the kid is oozing with talent. I always go back to the great QB's.

Peyton Manning - No one would call him athletic
TB12 - No one would call him athletic
Drew Breese - same
Big Ben - same

The above example show you that it's how you have to win mentally in the NFL way more so than physically. Nothing in the Josh Allen tap suggests to me that he will win mentally in the NFL.

I would say Drew and Ben are athletic.


I have no idea whether or not Josh has the 'win mentality' but how would you know if he did?

Mentally, not mentality. You can see him slow to process, even in the Video Bucky said he "gets stuck". It's pretty clear he isn't at a stage where he can process post snap reads quickly.

Gotcha, my bad there.

I agree that he's not quick with his reads but some believe he can improve with coaching and talent upgrade.

It's because we own the #4 pick too. I've mentioned before that if we talk up Allen a ton, we might convince another team to move up for him at that position. We may also be trying to bluff the Giants into trading up for #1 if they think we might take someone they really want like Barkley or Chubb at #1, if they think we'll just take Allen at #4.

Now, if the interest is genuine I can only think of one thing. They may really not that thrilled in any of the other QBs. Darnold has a weird arm motion, Rosen has had a few concussions, etc. Maybe Allen just has the most potential of all QBs, and they figure if they have to get a QB they aren't thrilled with, they may as well go with the one with the highest ceiling. As far as potential goes, Allen has to be tops, right? He's got the biggest arm, biggest frame, fastest 40 time (of the "top 4"). He's probably had the least amount of coaching up until now. His Wonderlic shows he's not lacking in intelligence. And most importantly, he seems to be willing to do whatever it takes to prove himself.

During the Senior Bowl, Mayfield was saying he didn't want to play at first, and then changed to say he would play in a limited number of series. Allen was reportedly saying he would play the whole game if coaches needed him to. he was also taking whatever advice he could get from coaches during the weekend. I could see a coaching staff viewing him as the perfect piece of clay that they can mold into their ideal QB.

All that said, I'm still going to be bummed if they take him #1 overall.

Very possible but it's my opinion that that ability is innate. I believe some guys can get better with experience, but a guy like Josh McCown is a perfect example. Experienced, physically gifted, yet struggles on post snap reads.

I may be alone, but I'm in the camp that processing speeds can be helped only marginally with coaching and experience.

It is so funny to read all this.

One day I wake up and think damn they are gonna draft Allen.

Then it's like well they may really like Mayfield.

I guess like most because we don't hear much at all about the Browns and Rosen; they won't draft Rosen.

Then there is Darnold the favorite of the mocks.

I don't have a clue who they will draft.

I like it that they are looking at the workouts back to back. Then bringing them all in to Berea for interviews etc. back to back.

Somehow I am confident they will get it right.

It would be great if it is my guy. However, that never seems to the case.

This just in. Peter King reporting that a friend of Dorey's "believes" we're going Allen at 1. Barkely at 4.

Grain Of Salt

U know what bone ... i’ve been duped so many times in the past .... not this year ... i refuse to believe a thing until Dorsey’s wife’s hairdresser speaks .... the wife’s hairdresser is NEVER WRONG ... til then ... all nonsense and innuendo ... ....

I have no clue where there going at 1 or 4 and neither do none of us nor do these so called experts .... only ones that know are a few inside Berea if even they know for sure yet ... im sure they have a pretty good idea ... but I highly doubt there “locked in” ...

24 more days of ANTICIPATION ....

Then hopefully i get my guys .... if not, i pray these guys got it right and root like hell ....

I'm surprised tabloids are still in business with the regular media pretty much taking their niche.

Wondering if like in the past they will announce ahead of time that they want to sign him.

Maybe that was before rookie salary structure.

The NFL wants the suspense. So just have to wait.

For those who are against drafting Josh Allen #1 overall in this years draft and are for drafting Baker Mayfield. I would like to remind you that the Browns had a Baker Mayfield type player on the team and traded him for a 2019 conditional 7th round pick. I am not saying they are the exact same players but they are close enough statistically and physically. If you did not want Kessler, you cannot really make a case for Mayfield.

I say again as I have in the past, the Browns cannot take a 20 year old QB 1st overall and expect success. The list of success for a QB who started his first NFL game before his 22nd birthday is small. The Browns are in no position to [censored] away another high draft pick. Josh Allen is the the prototypical AFC North QB. Look at the teams in the AFC North QBs. Roethlisberger 6'5", Flacco 6'6", Dalton 6'2". It could be said that Andy Dalton has held the Bengals back from being consistently successful in the AFC North. I want the Browns to take Josh Allen if for no other reason than to give the Browns a chance to compete in the AFC North.

That is not the criteria that should be used to make a decision on a quarterback.

We just gonna ignore Brock Osweiler then?

He has all the tools and then some, he takes to coaching really well, he's smart and a hard worker with a pristine past and is morally sound. I really don't have a problem taking him #1 overall if that's the way Dorsey wants to go. I don't get the hand wringing.

I'm gonna let Tab have at this one.

Are you serious? Have you seen Baker Mayfield? Did you see Cody Kessler? Completely different players and different abilities. I mean, not even close. Other than them being both accurate and maybe the same height/body, what could be the similarities.



Okay, that's what's holding Andy Dalton and the Bengals back. His height.......

The scary part is Peter King is pretty connected, and usually isn't wrong. I love Allen's potential, but he has way too many questions to be the #1 pick.....imo anyway.

That's what I'm thinking. I mean, Jesus. I'm happy with three different guys, and rumor has it they favor the fourth.

It's unbelievable

Why? The closer we get we can also assume that more miss information would be let on. He might turn out to be a franchise QB but he also would carry the biggest risk factor. I don't see us taking the biggest risk with pick #1???

I stated way back in November or December that Allen could be the pick for Dorsey and to not be surprised by it, not predicting it to be the case just that it is a possibility. The more info being printed the more it looks like it very well could be the case.

Well Allen does resemble Flacco out of all the QBs in the North. Just inaccurate enough to not win the big ones!

I just smh with all this talk about Allen. My goodness ever since Kiper, of all people. Came out with his Mock draft claiming Allen is the #1. People acting like its true.

I would be SHOCKED if we took the major risk. This franchise and its history and search for a Franchise QB with the overall #1 pick in a QB draft class that looks to be one of the best. We pick the highest risk guy? I could see if we only had pick #4 and Mayfield, Rosen and Darnold goes 1,2,3 and we take the risk pick at 4.

But to purposely take the highest risk. again I just don't see us doing that.

I would hope we traded out of #1 if that was the case. Same difference.

Just a waste of overall #1.

First I would not freak out yet.

I also have Allen fourth.

Why would Dorsey tell a friend so his friend could tell King?

They are bringing in these guys all week. I would think this week is where the rubber meets the road.

I like Allen. He seems like a straight forward honest young man. Supposedly he is very bright. Teammates love the guy. You can tell the kid wants it. Loves football. Wants to be great and will work his tail off.

What's not to like about Allen? Height, weight, speed, and giant arm.

The problem is will he get the mental side? Physically he is a specimen. Will he learn to anticipate open? Will he make better decisions? I am not that afraid about his completion percentage. I think he will improve that with more consistent footwork. He shows he can put touch on the ball. He throws well off the run.

My major issue is can he process the info of the NFL game? Will he adapt to the game where so much is placed on the right post snap read? Throw the ball to right guy at the right time. Trust the receiver to run the route and throw to the right spot before being open.

He has to be able to convince the Drosey group that he will be able to do that when the tape doesn't show it.

The one thing I will say is if this guy has "it". If he develops the mental aspects of the position. Man he could be special.

Dorsey bought into Mahomes. So Allen will be in play.

I have Allen 3rd and closer to Darnold than people would like. He is the ultimate "projection" QB. I compared him to Cam Newton recently and it was strange hearing someone else echo that like Bucky Brooks.

I also was not a fan of Cam Newtons for all the reasons I've listed about Allen.

food for thought.

This is comical. Cal or Petey are in a tizzy.

I've got my Popcorn. Keep on.

I agree and I've made the Cam comp myself but based only on size, arm and the type of passers they are (power as opposed to touch). But when it comes to rationalizing them equally as worthy of the #1 overall well....Cam had a much better resume:

Cam won at national championship at JuCo. Then Cam won a national championship at Auburn. Cam also rushed for 1400+ yards and 20 TDs. 66 comp%. 30 Td-7 Ints. Efficiency rating of 182.

Even today Cam is not a great quarterback.

But you are right he had the credentials.

Allen should not be the first pick.

In my opinion you can't use the first pick on a bet that he will develop.

Yeah it's strictly a physical comp. His combine #'s and the arm.

I wonder if Cam had the same numbers would he have gone #1?

I doubt it very seriously.

I listened to Brian Billick on Allen.

He compared him Kyle Boller. Billick's death pick.

Billick the guy manages a Super Bowl winning team and nobody would hire him after that.

I don't see the Boller comparison. Allen shows more talent and leadership.

But I do agree he is not worthy of the first pick.

I disagree. It is the only criteria worth using. Winning the AFC North should be the goal. The goal should not be some mythical NFL QB type.

Here here Pastor Marc.

bonefish, I am only making a reasonable assessment of a QB abilities. Why don't you tell me what has kept Andy Dalton back? I am sold on Josh Allen. If GM Dorsey picks him 1st overall, I will not have a fit. I also like Sam Darnold. I believe Sam Darnold will need a full season with a clipboard before I would let him see the field. It has nothing to do with his athleticism. It has everything to do with his ability to turn the ball over and his age. Statistically starting QBs in the NFL under the age of 22 have not fared well. I am not inclined to support a 1st overall pick that will sit an entire season. I am and have been on the Josh Allen bandwagon. I would be pleased with Josh Allen being chosen 1st overall.

What is it you like so much about Allen that you'd take him #1?

I want Sam but I'm guessing the thinking behind Allen is there should be ample time for him to develop. Well, I'm thinking that time with Darnold should produce even a better QB since I think Sam is the better prospect. I can't take Allen at one though and even four kinda galls me a bit.

j/c

The rumors of Allen to Cleveland are making me ill. I sure hope Dorsey knows what he is doing if that is his guy.

I do not believe Josh Allen will be there at #4. I believe he is the best AFC North QB in the draft. I believe he is worth the 1st overall pick for the Browns.

The big arm IS enticing. I'm not convinced he can make that big arm NFL accurate. I hate to see an eventual repeat of the display we saw this year...

I'd be livid if we get Allen. Livid.

No way Sashi died just to draft Allen.

Right there with ya. My trust in Dorsey's QB evaluations will go right into the toilet.

I had a friend tell me I look like Josh Allen. The last time a friend told me I looked like a QB in the draft, it was Peyton Manning.

That's all I got ...

The regular media is tabloid trash.

A lot of this pre-draft stuff is smoke, mirrors, hype, and people making stuff up. Don't beat yourself up over it.

I think Darnold is and was the guy all along. We'll find out on April 26th.

Sure win the North is the goal.

But that has little to do with the evaluation of the position.

This is all about projecting a skill set to the NFL and over a career.

What can they do? What do they need to learn? Are they coachable? Can they lead men? Will they commit to the work required to be great? Are they winners?
Can they handle the pressure both on the field and off?

Then you are looking all the nuances of the position.

It makes no difference what Division. It applies to all divisions.

What's that based on?? For Allen to be the best anything it is going to require significant improvement... His potential might be off the charts but I'm tired of the projects we've had,especially with the #1 pick. I want the best QB with the least risk of busting. That means it won't be Allen in my opinion. . . If it is him I'll wait and see and support the guy, but man what a risk.

Folks, we have no say in this matter; we have to trust that Dorsey knows what he's doing. If he fubar's this draft, he's not only out of a job, his career is over. Try to have a little faith.

We've seen so many guys fubar drafts, it's just difficult.

I'll just feel so much better if we don't draft that guy. Rosen, Mayfield, or Darnold. Any of those three. Just not Josh Allen.

We have a serious opportunity here. If Dorsey screws it up, he loses his job. But how does that help me? My team still has had two winning seasons in 20 years and made the playoffs once in 20 years

He's already had a better off-season before the draft, than most of our GMs have had with the draft. As long as he picks anyone close to where they are evaluated, it will be a successful off season.

j/c...

That MMQB article citing a "friend of Dorsey" spilled the beans that Dorsey is leaning Allen is a hoot.

There is very little chance Dorsey stakes his career on Allen. Hell, he just traded his doppelganger in Kizer.

Some numbers....

Mike Clay Verified account
@MikeClayNFL
Worst final FBS season off-target rates among top QB prospects last 3 years:
Josh Allen 16.3%
DeShone Kizer 14.5%
Jeff Driskel 14.4%
Connor Cook 13.5%
C Hackenberg 13.4%

Tweet

And...

Brent Sobleski
@brentsobleski
Catchable ball accuracy, per @PFF:

Mayfield: 64.9%
Darnold: 62.1%
Rosen: 54.1%
Allen: 51.0%
Rudolph: 50.6%
Jackson: 49.0%

Tweet

I admit to being somewhat intrigued by Allen .... and if I was picking in the 20's, I might take him ..... but I will be extremely unhappy if the Browns take him at #1 overall.

Twenties, sure. Overall number one is so ridiculous, I commend the FO for being so tight-lipped people believe it's a possibility.

Exactly. I just get so nervous seeing all these reports linking us to him lately. At some point, where there's smoke there's fire

He can go ahead and risk his job on Josh Allen with another team as far as I'm concerned.

I'm sick of losing. I'm sick of failures at QB. We have the number one pick, it's not something to screw around with.


All the trades and free agency mean nothing if he screws up this QB pick. And that's the truth. Screw up this QB pick and he's just like all the rest of the GMs we had before. Guys that helped us have two winning seasons in 20 years

Remember .. Last year they were predicting the Browns would take Trubisky right up til the card was read...

I just hope I have some hair left by the time the draft gets here....

Didn't Dorsey pick Mahomes last year....

I have a feeling he's going to try to outsmart himself and will look like an ass...

Mid season Hue and Dorsey will be out of here, if he tries to be a smart ass...

I think all carry a risk factor. Make no mistake, I am not Pimping Allen.

I am going to trust what Dorsey wants. Have no real choice.

I love your logic. LOL

You are sick of losing. Any other QB in this year's draft will bring winning to the Browns in 2018? The talk is the Browns should draft Darnold 1st overall and sit him for the entire year. In essence, to throw away this year's first overall pick for a future prospect in 2019. I believe any player taken first overall should be played immediately and I believe Josh Allen is the guy for the Browns.

I can support this point of view.

If you are willing to take a QB in the first round as your franchise QB, you should be willing to take the QB first overall.

I would rather see the Browns take Allen than Darnold.

Baker Mayfield should be the pick, but they will go with a taller guy.

They've made clear that Tyrod Taylor will be the Browns 2018 starting QB. So that's that. And I'm fine with that. I accepted it. But Tyrod has only one year left on his contract.

What i'm not okay with is having the number 1 pick, and three QBs who have shown themselves to be viable options for that pick, and saying, "Frig it, I'm gonna choose what's behind curtain number four".


This isn't about this year. It's about 2019, 2020, and 2021, and so on.

I'll tell ya what; if we select Josh Allen, Ken Zampese better get ready to coach his butt off, and then pray that any of it correlates into actual games

Why is that?

I get a kick out of some of these "advanced statistics".

Rosen is regarded as the most polished passer in the draft... throws with anticipation, throws receivers open, pin point accuracy, etc... Allen, well he can't hit the barn side of a broad lol.

What is "catchable ball accuracy" anyway? Is that like "happily married marriage rates"?

Gee, I'm sold.

What the heck is "AFC North QB" anyway?

An AFC QB is a QB that can play in inclement weather, large enough to absorb repeated hits by good AFC defenses, can play under center, is a good play action QB, has a strong arm to throw the ball through the winds that often are present on game day in AFC North games.

I would say that a QB with a history of concussions, played in a gimmicky offense in college (spread, read option, any Big 12 school), no football IQ (able to make adjustments) are all criteria of a non-AFC North QB. Take it for what it is or not. It is what I see as a AFC North QB. Winning the AFC North is the only excepted minimum goal every season. Until you win the AFC North, you are just the Cleveland Browns, laughing stock of the NFL.

Not only would Dorsey be risking his career on a QB analytics says has a 62% chance to bust (Mayfield under 30%), but he's risking his career that Hue and Haley can develop him.

I get the impression that now that we have Tyrod, it's ok to take a risk at #1 because we have a very serviceable QB.

I also believe this pick is going to be all Dorsey. I don't think he's going to be diligent with this pick, I think he's going to pick the guy he has a "feeling" about. I've read that's partly why he was let go in Kansas City. Without any consent from the organization, he went rogue and drafted Kevin Hogan.

If he picks Allen, I hope he's right, but the odds say he's not.

Allen is intelligent, has generational physical tools, displays a great attitude and wants to be in Cleveland. He's the guy!
I really like Mayfield, and I think Rosen will be good right away. But long term, Allen looks special to me.

I have heard Hue Jackson say things before. Remember Hue what said about drafting Cody Kessler? Hue Jackson has less and less to say about the team personnel in my opinion until he wins. I believe that Tyrod Taylor was brought in because they wanted to win now and were unsure of the play now, win now prospects in the draft. Hue has no cover left. He wasted it with RG3, Josh McCown, Deshone Kizer, and Cody Kessler. His reputation as a QB whisperer is tarnished. I believe that Todd Haley has more to say about who the Browns play at QB in 2018 than Hue Jackson does.

As this is only my feelings about the matter, I believe that Todd Haley would not have come to Cleveland under other circumstances. I have no inside knowledge of the Browns plans. I am only trying to make a reasoned and logic guess. If Allen is taken #1 overall, if Darnold is taken #1 overall, I believe they will be given every opportunity to win the job and if they do, Hue Jackson will come out and say so in a press conference even though he previously said that Tyrod Taylor was the starting QB in 2018.

And what evidence you have to back any of these claims up?

This is all speculation with no evidence behind it? Correct?

Hogan was a 5th round pick. I find it doubtful that a QB picked in the 5th round is going to jeopardize someone's career.

And, if you read what's being written Dorsey uses the word "consensus" alot. Some opinions might carry more weight than others but he certainly has not given everyone the finger and sat in his office deciding who he and he alone will pick...

I agree. The guy has walked on at two different programs and started. He is the most accurate and has a good arm.

If he was a inch or two taller there wouldn't even be any talk about who we would take.

You can already see people talking themselves into this rubbish.

Baker Mayfield is definitely a player i wouldn't doubt to be successful in this league.

Not one bit.

I'd love Baker Mayfield to come here. Not my top guy (Rosen), but still a solid choice.

He's had a lot of experience, and he's proven himself wherever he goes. He's certainly not someone i'd ever tell that they "can't" do something.


My biggest nervousness with Mayfield is that he might have a bit too much of a "Me" attitude. Which is something that might work in college, but grown men will see right through

I think the point is being missed here that no matter who we start, he's not going to play right away anyhow.

Taylor is a Pro Bowl starting QB throwing to two pretty decent targets (three if you count Njoku). Unless he gets hurt and Stanton gets hit by a bus, our rookie isn't gonna play in year one, nor should he (regardless of where he gets picked). He's gonna get paid like a back-up and should be so until he is ready.

So I don't care if it's Darnold, Rosen, Allen, Mayfield or who ever. That kid is not gonna play unless he is head and shoulders above Taylor, and personally I don't think any of these kids will be.

NFL experience will win out and Taylor has that by miles. So if we pick Allen, then he will not be the player we see now when he's leading our team...he will be better.

We need to get ready for the Pick em, Sit em version of the NFL. Especially the Browns who need wins more than they need a rookie QB to play because we picked him high.

Sure we do.

But looking forwards, as Tyrod is only signed for 2018, wouldn't you want the best prospect?

And with understanding that Tyrod is merely our QB for 2018, what makes anyone think that in 2019, Josh Allen will magically "Get it" and become a good QB?

I have a lot more faith in guys who already have had some success in college, than a guy like Allen who really hasn't shown much other than inconsistency at Wyoming.

The NFL is a big step up, and in some ways, you are what you are. You can improve on it, but you still are what you are. And Allen, in College, was inconsistent with his accuracy and his decision making.

The other three, are far ahead of him in those terms. Wouldn't it make sense to draft one of them? Even if they wait out the season, I'd have more faith in the guys who already kind of get it, verses the ones who don't get it at all.


Accuracy, anticipation, ability to read defenses. Those are the most important traits in a QB. Pick one that has those traits. Don't pick some guy who doesn't, hoping you can coach those traits into them for 2019.

It's absolutely ludicrous.

Drafting #1, you want a true franchise QB and a 6 ft QB with immaturity issues isn't a franchise QB.

We.will draft Darnold and leave the running around, running from the cops Smurf QB to be someone else's problem.

As for Allen, the fractured clavical and shoulder issue worry me more than accuracy.

Yeah the fractured clavicle really stopped him from throwing 70 yard bombs at his pro-day and the combine.

I be more concerned with soft tissue injuries (ie. labrum, rotator cuff). A. Rodgers has had 2 collarbone breaks and he seems to be pretty good still.

It's not the ability to throw the ball, it's the ability to take a hit. He didn't play much and even then it wasn't against the size speed combo if the nfl.

I think if we had gone out and snagged one of the top top QB FA's (Smith or Cousins, only) then I could get on board with grabbing Allen later in the first (with a trade down/up, whatever). As much as I love having Tyrod here, we still have to take the most sure thing at QB in the draft. There is a chance that Allen will turn into everything people think he can be, but we're not in a position to take on that type of risk at #1. We don't have a Favre for Allen to be our Rodgers.

When I put everything I have into driving the golf ball, I can hit it pretty far. It usually ends up on another hole.

No benefit to hitting it far if it doesn't go where you need it to go.

With QB, if I had to choose between accuracy and a cannon ... I will take accuracy.

That's not what I am saying. If we only had a pick in the 20s, and he fell in the draft, and was there when we picked, I would consider taking a shot with him. However, I think that there is much better quality at 1 and 4 than Allen. If we were in the mid 20's, and if we didn't have a franchise QB, then I would be willing to take a chance on Allen. I am not willing to do so at 1 or 4 though.

NFL.com had Casserly's draft, and he has us going Darnold at 1, Chubb at 4, and then has us trading back to the 1st with the Eagles, and us getting Michel in the 1st as well. (which I assume would be us trading either 33 or 35 and some combination of a 4th, 5th and/or 6th)

I would love that 1st round.

Several posts have suggested that Dorsey is going to like Allen because of his arm strength and site the drafting of Mahomes as evidence. However , i seem to remember reading that what Dorsey liked about Mahomes was hiw smart he was on the whiteboard during interviews.

I would suggest that Dorsey is going to value the whiteboard evaluation over arm strength.

Outside of throwing it a little harder and farther is Allen better in any area of quarterback play versus the other three?

Has he played in big games against top level competition? Did he face the same type of pressure as the other three as far leading a team on and off the field?

Did he dominate where he played? Does he have injury concerns?

As much as I love Allen's potential; I can see no logic in picking him over Rosen or Darnold.

Both of them have done more at a higher level. Both show the skills already to play in the NFL. Allen has to develop those skills.

The gamble is he will develop. Why gamble?

Oh, I'm 100 percent with you. I just can't get through my head how we could choose Allen over the other three.

Just leaves me completely lost that these guys would risk the future of our team/their careers on this guy.

Of course, this whole situation has me losing sleep. I was tossing and turning lastnight, wife was knocked out at 1030, and I was up until 130, until I read a Benjamin Albright Tweet that made me feel better

There sure is a whole lot of hand-wringing going on about something Colin Cowherd said, that Peter King said, that 'a friend' of John Dorsey said. And the core assumption is that Dorsey confided in 'his friend' something that his years of experience in the field dictates he keep private.

Thank my lucky stars I have a planned vacation to Arches National Park from April 8th to the 13th.

Hopefully I can get this crap out of head for a little while.

It is making me crazy.

As much as I trust Dorsey and his team.

And as much as I see all the great options at One and Four. It seems like nobody could really blow our first two picks.

Rosen or Darnold I am good. Mayfield? I can accept.

Allen in my mind would have to be overwhelming in the private sessions.

Pick four. How can you go wrong with Barkley, Chubb, or the best DB?

Even with these great options they may not all work out.

I can't remember a draft where my guys were selected.

I just want Dorsey to get it right. I don't care if I'm wrong.

At the same time I would like to proven wrong with Darnold and Barkley.

+1 Exactly

Chris Fedor
‏
Verified account

@ChrisFedor
2h2 hours ago
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Josh Allen had the lowest drop rate of all the top QB’s in this year’s draft class. The highest drop rate was Lamar Jackson followed by Josh Rosen.

so, lowest drop rate, weak conference, didn't have most attempts down the field, etc.

Allen is not a #1 QB

He also threw 130-200 passes less than the other 5 QBs.

which makes him inefficient in just about everything.

or maybe their offense was much more conservative and balanced than the pass happy offenses of the other QBs.

Yeah not a bad #22 pick...better than BQ and Manziel and Weeden. But we ain't picking 22 we are finally taking a QB overall #1 in a strong QB class.

or maybe he just sucked.

but he will still get drafted higher than your guy.

however true it may be, it certainly won't be based on the actual resume.

Or maybe their offense didn't get a lot of first downs because Josh Allen was their QB

Also, if we were picking in the 20's, more than likely we already have a franchise (franchise-ish) QB on the roster. A QB like Allen, with all the potential in the world, is afforded time to work on their game and bring mechanics up to NFL-level instead of being immediately thrown to the wolves without a chance to make it.

We were trying to tell you earlier.

Anyhow we got a long 23? days left don't stress over the mishigas

We're deep into lying season

Rosen is one good thump from QUITING football and Darnold has fumbled so many times it's scary. How'd Darnold do against Ohio State.....all these QBs have issues, proves they're human like us. I'd take Allen every time over Rosen....won't be unhappy if we take Darnold......Mansfield wouldn't be on my board- maturity. Go Browns!!!!

Just kinda thinking out loud here... and I might get shot, but if you had a quarterback who is "good enough" to be a #1 pick in the NFL draft, shouldn't the offense revolve around him?

Exactly - and even more strange, it isn't like Darnold or Rosen have weak arms. Both have excellent tape throwing deep, and showed off their stuff at their respective pro-day.

Allen is undoubtedly a prototypical quarterback with immense talent, but he's never really put it together on the field. His strength really is just that he has the best combination of arm strength and athleticism. Yet, his tape is basically Brock Osweiler at ASU.

I'd be shocked if the Browns legitimately consider him the top QB.

...Every player is one good thump from quitting football.

Unlike other players who play as a means to get out of their situation, Rosen is playing because he wants to despite other opportunities. I worry much more about other players losing their drive once they get paid.

Could he get injured and stop playing? Yes, but that is true of every player. Having your body smashed by freak athletes on a regular basis takes a toll.

I think we might actually be a good fit for each other as Rosen's biggest problem is pressure up the middle where we have a quality interior OL. His positives of being good at manipulating the pocket and ability to make quick reads can help our less established OTs. His lack of scrambling also might actually make it easier for the OTs as they won't have to worry as much about where he might be.

Josh Allen looks like a long string of 3 and outs waiting to happen to me. Sure, he'll have the occasional amazing looking play, but they'll probably be in garbage time when opponents have marched out their reserves. I think Allen looks a lot like Paxton Lynch coming out. I have higher hopes for Allen developing, but I see a similar starting point.

If Josh Rosen can lead a strike across the NFL then he can lead this team to a Super Bowl imho

[quote=hitt]Mansfield wouldn't be on my board- maturity.


Jayne Mansfield had a notorious weak arm. Also pretty sure her Wonderlic was very low.

The reason John Dorsey won’t draft J. Allen is because he knows the definition of potential and prospect. He can’t take a chance of not taking the safest choice in the draft, and then 2 or 3 years from now being in the same boat they’re in now. Can’t keep passing on QB’s for QB’s with potential. Need to be focusing on the 4th pick now, and no not trading it. Don’t need more picks.

Old read from 6 months ago, but a good one.

Talks about the differences between what the general public and NFL teams see in Allen...

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/27370...-twitter-debate

Dorsey already has a starting QB in Tyrod, he will have time to develop a rookie because he doesn't feel the pressure to play him. The pressure to start winning is real and Dorsey knows it. I am starting to think Allen may be the pick because of his potential and the time to develop him.

There is enough crazy upside that I wont be angry if we takeAllen rosen just will be hoping Dorsey is right. Same with Mayfield, I see enough good things that i wont be pulling hair out if we take him but I would take Rudolph, Darnold or Rosen ahead of them. I do believe all have potential to be franchise QBs. Based on everything I have heard, it will be all about the interviews and putting them infront of the board.

Those that are hoping for Baker Mayfield, this is the area where he is supposedly shinning. He has wowed with his football IQ and ability to retain information.

I dont believe we take Rosen, due to his lack of mobility.

If we're talking safest QB pick in the draft, we're talking Mayfield. We can only hope he takes him.

That must’ve been what the Browns Execs saw in D. Anderson, B. Quinn, B. Weeden. Oh yea almost forgot D. Kiser.

On Darnold in the OSU game I have heard enough.

Please he threw for 356 yards. His OL was completely overmatched.

Honestly that is the type of game you want to see how a quarterback handles adversity.

He made a ton of great throws.

He threw a bad pick and had a strip fumble. The pick was a poor decision. The fumble a good play by the defense. He has learned more about protecting the ball.

He has worked extensively since that game on ball protection. It is correctable. He is 20 years old. The position is a learning process over a career.

Darnold is the best quarterback prospect in this draft period.

Darnold is the best Quarterback in the draft period... Fixed it for ya.

I'm just worried that the strike would give him a concussion.

I rewatched this game and came away impressed with the throws he made. I'd love to see Rosen play behind Darnolds offensive line that game, and see what happens. My guess is he'd be dead.

Mayfield also played well against OSU and people use the two games of Mayfield and Darnold agaist OSU to compare the two QB's. I know I have. But I think I was wrong to do so. USC played OSU at the end of the season and OSU's D-line teed off against Darnold. Oklahoma played OSU in game 2 of the season. And OSU was not the same team it was at the end of the season.

One thing I want to say about the games vs OSU, Mayfield got the ball out quicker than Darnold. He had the better line but he got the ball out superfast and I thought at times Darnold held it a bit to long.

I would take Darnold at 1 but Mayfield man he has a quick release.

Regardless who we take I would hope we bring them up slow and get him ready. TT at QB actually gives us that opportunity! Every QB would benefit. Assuming TT is efficient with his Football Intelligence and the fact that he is a low turnover guy and got the Bills to the playoffs last year I think is testimony that he does have those skills.

jmho

I

do not hate that draft scenario. I would not do it myself. I do not see it as a losing 1st round draft. I do not like the idea of "taking a chance on a player" in the 20's in the first round. I expect them to be a starter or very significant contributor in year one.

OSU's secondary was playing much better at the end of the season than it was at the beginning. We were replacing Conley, Lattimore, and Hooker. They looked pretty awful against Oklahoma outside of Ward, but the CBs hadn't seen the field much, so it was somewhat to be expected.

Josh Allen's shoulder injuries deserve more attention

By: Jeff Risdon | 5 hours ago

The debate over Josh Allen as the potential No. 1 overall pick is hitting fever pitch. With a little over two weeks left until the 2018 NFL Draft, many prominent pundits have projected Allen as the Cleveland Browns selection with the first pick. Many other prominent pundits, as well as some of the same who believe he’ll be the No. 1 pick, are openly critical of Allen’s poor accuracy and unrefined mental game.

One issue which seldom sees the light of day in the debate is Allen’s troubling medical history. Specifically, his oft-injured right (throwing) shoulder.

Allen has broken his right collarbone twice, including a devastating shatter fracture in his first year at Wyoming. As chronicled by the Casper Star-Tribune,

Allen's next drive began with an 11-yard run. Incompletion to Gentry. Five-yard run. Incompletion. Twenty-four-yard run. Clavicle broken in seven spots.

Season over.

"(It) was a little bit of a fluke thing, in my opinion," Allen said of the hit he took after his long run. "His helmet just kind of squeezed between my shoulder pads and my helmet.

It wasn't Allen's first broken collarbone. His sophomore year of high school, he missed four weeks with a fracture in his right collarbone. He had been told by a doctor that calcium buildup would prevent another break in the same spot.

Allen also missed Wyoming’s final two regular-season games in 2017 after suffering an injury to the same shoulder in the win over Air Force. That malady was deemed a soft-tissue injury not directly related to the prior fractures or surgeries.

Given his take-no-prisoners style, nicely detailed in the Star-Tribune feature, the three prior shoulder injuries should be a more prominent focus of attention in the debate over Allen and his NFL fate.

Fever Pitch...as in you have to be Delusional to think of taking him....lol

I doubt Allen is a serious consideration at 1. We're going to take Darnold and if he has a major injury or whatever sometime before the draft, it would probably be Rosen. It's probably not something any of us want to think about, but you have to be prepared for the possibilities.

If all this talk of Allen at #1 is even coming from the Browns (I have my doubts), it's probably with the idea of pumping up the value for the #4 pick, either because Allen is still there or he went 2/3 and a more desirable player/trade opportunity fell to 4.

Yea, Here is hoping that all this talk of taking Allen @1 is smoke and mirrors.

If Josh Allen is really our number 1 pick, I'll really start questioning the Dorsey hire. Probably have a melt down too.

Honestly, I hate the thought of the pick. There's three other good choices. Im so sick of sucking, and Josh Allen could really set us back.

I just have such a bad feeling about this draft. It's depressing. I'm pretty much ABA, anyone but Allen. Rosen will have me dancing. Mayfield will have me dancing. Darnold will have me smiling. Allen will have me furious. It's insane to think how incompetent our organization would have to be to select the guy at 1, let alone 4

I could take Allen #1 if not for the injuies. His progress from senior bowl to proday is tremendous but man the injuries against smaller sized college kids is alarming when he is gonna be facing a Myles Garrett type of body for 16 weeks.

Agreed, I would rather trade out and draft Rudolph later on. Not that I think that we should trade out...we just been waiting since 99...which if you told me that in 99 we would still be waiting on a franchise type QB...I might have given up all together on this sport.

What progress are you referring to? It's not like he had to perform under pressure, which is really the best way to evaluate a QB.

How the heck can you gauge progress in non-game situations? The idea that anything supersedes the flaws on film is nuts.

Of course you can evaluate progress, from the start if senior bowl week till the end of that week, he improved. Inproved stance, improved footwork. Combines showed more improvement and it was cleaned up even more at his proday.

I have this argument every year as folks say u don't imprive after the season but in GM's eyes players do just that.

Mayomes did and he went from 2nd rounder to stolen out from under us with the chiefs move into the top 10 for him.

Game isn't played in shorts and t-shirts but guys are evaluated in them.

How do you know that a player will not revert back to his bad habits under pressure? You can't know.

Exactly, and there's no way to evaluate progress in his decision making on the field. Which sucked too

Yes, Allen's lack of poise in the pocket is imo his biggest red flag.

His play looks a lot like Jake Locker, yet with less consistency.

It's just not high 1st round pick quality

We aren't taking Allen at 1. In my opinion, it will be darnold or Mayfield. I believe we are hyping Allen for the 4th pick. We want to increase the value of that pick to rg3 trade level.

12, 22, 53, 56 would be awful sweet. How bout move down one spot with broncos for their first next year. Hype of Allen is for a reason.

Darnold is our pick, Rosen to Giants, Mafield to Jets and Allen goes 4.

God I hope you're right. I'm counting on it.

I prefer that we stay @4...it's time to start using those picks...not to mention that imo this is not a deep class across the board.

whats up fellas? Going to remind you guys when Dorsey made these comments:" if you guys know what Im doing, then Im not doing my job."

Yes, thanks, I agree...Peter King has been fanning the flames.

Thanks for that reminder, Attack.

Great to see u brother.

Chubb and Quinton nelson are the only guys where there is a big drop from top guy at his position to the 2nd guy.

Once u get out of that top 65, the drop is epic at most positions but there is a boatload of talent in these first 2 rounds.

Firewall at my job won't always allow me in..plus I lost my password but found it again..
I do below the Browns are intentionally putting things out there to see who bites(also to see who leaks things internally).
Notice you don't see certain people tweeting stuff hardly ?
I think they toned down Jackson a lot so his buddy isn't getting a lot of info as before.
But that # 4 could garner a haul if a team thinks the Browns will take their guy.
I do expect a QB @ 1 but I suspect it might NOT be who people think..
I haven't written off Rosen.Not saying he's the pick..but its awful quiet about him with the Browns.

You have to wonder how different the NFL would be if we had made a vastly different pick in 2004 and went with Roethlisberger instead of Winslow before Pittsburgh could get to him...

I'm still intrigued with the hiring of McCoughlan...

Do you think he convinced Dorsey to draft Mayfield or do you think Dorsey convinced him that there's someone better than Mayfield? Or will there not be a consensus with the pick @ #1?

Neither. I think they all have talked and are concerned about fit and who really has a winning attitude.
Now unless something really leaks out, I don't think it's Mayfield ..watch them draft him as I said this..

You say this, but the right fit and winning attitude screams Mayfield to me. I feel like Rosen and Tyrod are two different style quarterbacks.

If we take Rosen, I'm back to thinking how weird it was signing RG3 and drafting Kessler. Nothing would surprise me, however.

I still feel it's down to Darnold or Mayfield.

Allen is simply not a first round pick in my eyes.

Reminder: Josh Allen hasn't even had his private meeting with the team yet.

Everybody wants to know. What rumor is true?

There are no answers. We don't know period.

Sure we hunger for inside in the know information.

We will not know till the card is turned in.

No rumors are true. If it were true it wouldn't be a rumor.

A rumor could be true, but without verification, there is no way to know.

That's a big one. Private meeting is where they really put them in front of the board test their knowledge and at the end test their recall. That was why he loved mahomes.

With these 4 fairly even, it probably comes down to these private interviews. It's why I haven't eliminated the possibility of Baker.

The team that drafts Allen isn't drafting him for what he's done. They would be drafting Allen on skillset and what he could do.

Its a huge gamble no doubt....it could pay off huge or fail.

Well it better not be us. We've won 1 game in two seasons (and were lucky to win that one). Dorsey can risk his career with some other franchise for all i care.

I've never seen less people in the stands than I did this year in my annual trip to Mecca (Cleveland Browns Stadium). Things have gotta change, folks can't take much more losing.

ABA, anyone but Allen

U know my friend .... if its gonna happen ... its gonna happen ... I can see your BP rising to a near boil through the screen ...

no sense having a stroke now over something that ...

A. More than likely won’t happen .... theres 4 potential .... thats 25% at MOST ...

B. U can’t control .....

Your getting yourself all riled up ... WAIT TIL IT HAPPENS ....

TRUTH is Pete ... we have NO CLUE ... and neither do the so called “pundits” mocking Allen #1 to us or writing the articles about its him or Darnold ....

We FINALLY have PROFFESIONALS running the draft .... there not LEAKING SQUADOOSH .... as it should be ...

Take a deep breath bro ..... exhale .... repeat ..... 10 times ... its gonna be OK .... may as well look at it that way now .... its better than riling yourself up over what at this point is a BIG FAT NOTHING ....

We have an impeccable record for finding failures.

There has to be some reason we are being tied to a couple of players. A reason Dorsey wants.

We hold the #1 pick. He could just come out and say we are taking this guy.

To me it means we are willing to deal the #1 pick. My guess is a 1-2 slot drop with the Giants or Jets. Interest the Jets in jumping the Giants, or interest the Giants to move up to keep the Jets from Jumping them.

The Giants like Darnold. Scare the Giants in to switching positions. Then do it again with the Jets at #3. Scare them that someone like the Broncos are going to move to the #2 position.

Make both of the deals fair enough that you don't scare them away because of price. A 1 slot drop insn't the type of move that you can carry a big club. Be nice. Get a few nice picks and get one of the players you want.

Maybe we have 3 QBs we like and would be willing to take any of the three?

Darnold and Allen have to be linked to one of those teams IMO and we are hoping we can gain some value by dropping 1-2 slots.

I would make either one pay ... Say Giants #1 in 2019 and Jets 3rd rd. 2018 and 1st rd. 2019 ... We still get our QB and top player.

I think the opposite. We are talking a 1 slot drop. Make the Giants pay what it would cost the Jets to move up, then give a discount to make it a easy move for the Giants.

Then turn around and do it to the Jets, afraid some other team is going to jump them.

I am not saying we give things away, but the attitude "make 'em Pay" isn't the best way to actually get teams to move up. I'd be happy to get the turnip. Not see how much blood I could squeeze out of it.

Of course there's a reason..but I am not certain what, except that it could be anything.
Dorsey could want to see what type of package he could get for the # 1 pick..keep # 4 and take a QB.
Or he could have the # 4 pick in play.
I'm not really tied to any QB, I just the Browns to get the best one.
I will still remind people what he said about if you know what he's doing , he's not doing his job.

Unless someone tweets a pic of our draft board again...

Josh Allen is in town visiting the Browns today.

I still don't think there is a chance Dorsey takes him at #1.

Cleveland Browns will host Josh Allen on Thursday (today)

Did I miss Wednesday ? Man that was a LONG sleep I took .

More than you realize. This is 2060 AD.

Lol, oops!

When I say today, I definitely mean tomorrow.

And the Browns are still a crappy team and we are deciding between which one of two QBs to take #1 overall, Sam Darnold III or Josh Allen III.

I was fairly upset with the idea of taking Darnold over Rosen.....then they said it was Josh Allen and I was clamoring for Darnold lol

There is a ton of noise on Allen from guys who usually do a pretty good job. That doesn't mean we are taking Allen, but it means there is a reason for it coming out.

1. Could be we really like Allen and are just letting the shock and initial hate the fanbase will give wear off a little.

2. Could be a ploy to gauge interest in the 4 pick from Bills/Cardinals

I don't know which one it is, but guys like Jeremiah, Brooks, and King aren't making stuff up....they are hearing this, but that also doesn't necessarily mean it will or won't happen.

Right now today.... I would rather have the Browns Pick Allen, or Mayfield than Darnold. Darnold strikes me as a turnover machine who will never be a solid NFL QB. I could be wrong and I have no problem admitting it down the road if Darnold ends up be a better QB than Allen and Mayfield but I just don't see that happening.

Are you Serious? Holy fecies.

110 percent bro. Like I said you can beat me down in three years if I am wrong. I won't put up a fuss.

We are just doing the bidding of the NFL. They ask for teams to keep it exciting and not reveal the intentions of #1.

Last year I think we waited for the last minute to put in our pick.

jmho

Since we are hearing a lot about Allen being in play for the 1st overall pick, I went back and looked at a couple of his games. Normally I choose to watch games vs the the best opponents but I didn't think that would be fair. Iowa and Oregon have such a talent disparity over Wyoming that no Qb could have a good game. So I watched the games vs Colorado State and Utah State.

1, Some people have attributed Allen's low completion percentage to him throwing more deep passes and fewer screens/dump offs than the other other guys. In these 2 games he threw a lot a short screens and check downs. I didn't count it up but if felt like almost 40% of his passes.

2, I spent most of the time I was watching just shaking my head. I have no idea how this guy is even considered in the 1st 3 rounds let alone #1 overall. I don't even know how to describe how awful he was in these 2 games. Ugh.

He's big and white and is nice and throws the ball far.

https://www.theringer.com/2018/4/11/17224760/josh-allen-cleveland-browns-analytics-nfl-draft

I would rather have Darnold, Rosen, Mayfield, and yes, Jackson, before Allen. Man, I just see huge, destructive bust written all over him.

Vers always says that you can't teach accuracy at this level, and while I think that accuracy can be improved upon, the level of inaccuracy Allen shows makes it hard to believe that he will manage to develop into a legitimate NFL starter. He has poor ball placement, and I don't care how big an arm he has, if he can't fit the ball where it needs to go, NFL defenses will make him pay.

I like a lot of the moves Dorsey has made thus far, but drafting Allen would really make me question his ability to build a Super Bowl team.

Doesn't get better than that.

I figured I'd offer a ridiculous comment in reply to yours.

Looks like our football guys want him. It's not about whatt a player has done. It's about how he projects going forward.

'Bill Connelly: Josh Allen has never played quarterback well'

He says possibilities are intriguing, but nothing concrete that he'll succeed

https://923thefan.radio.com/articles/bill-connelly-josh-allen-has-never-played-quarterback-well

If we draft him I will hope he does well, but will not be surprised when he fails.

Right, because being white is part of it. Ever hear of Michael Vick? Supremely skilled athlete with a cannon arm who was overdrafted because of his ability but wasn't a good QB. Jamarcus Russell?

I would say there is a 75 percent chance we take Darnold, 20 percent chance we go Mafield and five percent we do anything g else. We simply aren't drafting Allen unless we take two QBs.

I seriously doubt our football guys want him. Possibly we can create a demand for him as the 4th pick in this draft. But I cannot believe a guy with the bally hoo of Dorsey comes on board and his first pick...that he will be remembered by for the rest of his career and he makes it for the biggest Reach and Risk of one of the strongest QB draft classes since 2004.

I ain't buying it Peen...cfrs, what does White have to do with it. This ain't the 70s. Winston, Cam must of claimed they were French or something...

I'll say one thing his face reminds me of somebody from TV a young teen but the baby face...looks just like him if I can remember the name. Good kid big and strong but that is where it stops. JOSH ALLEN IS NOT AN NFL FRANCHISE QB.

jmho

I hope that all of the Allen talk is just that .... talk ... and misdirection ....

Has to be...so much so that normally I'd be afraid that we are taking him...but the kid is so inept as a QB that I just don't see it. It reminds me of some kind of hyped up Heavy weight boxer just to get the $$$ then he lasts like 10 seconds and gets knocked out.

I don't disagree. I am not pimping Allen...I like Mayfield.

I have just come to know that football guys get all excited over measurables such as arm strength, height, etc. They tend to chase the fools gold. I hope we don't, but through the years we have seen it over and over...and not just our team.

Two weeks from today we will know who we settled on. Should be some interesting conversations going on at that point!

I really don't think Allen is a choice at all..I would not be shocked by the other two names if they are called..Mayfield/Allen.
.

The question is, did people finaly start correctly calling it "twenty sixty", or are there still some (people) like "Alex Trebec, of Jeopardy" who call it

"two thousand sixty" , or the unacceptable to mathematics, "two thousand and sixty"

When seriously, any rational, err, irrational thinking human being already knows, that the whole "two thousand" thing was cute/fine for a couple years but any year referred to after 2012 at the very latest

Has to be called "twenty" thirteen and so on unless they don't understand the concept of year number pronunciation.


On Josh Allen: I was going to say: -------(wait I had him confused with Rosen,).

But on the top Qb's, / whomever for the #1 pick.

If you considered it this way, the Browns have the best 5 on their team and have to send 4 away without compensation to other teams,
The Browns would not send Baker Mayfield off their team to the Jets without compensation.

In fact, when I considered it that way, Saquan Barkley was the hardest to part with without compensation,...

Until I remembered about Mayfield.

That is a terrible way to look at things when picking a player.

It's not right to ignore what a player has done so far when projecting how he will do going forward, unless you are trying to get the wrong answer.

Isn't it psychologists that say the biggest indicator of future behavior is past behavior.

The Browns don't have some world beating development of raw arm strength/height weight/athleticism, system in place that inserts raw material and outputs a polished NFL quarterback... in place.
The Browns don't have that.

I think the 6 or 7 month process might cause people to over think these things.

If the NFL draft were a 1 day 15 minute decision at the end of the season, I don't think Josh Allen would even be in consideration.

He played in Wyoming
Where?!
Canada? no Wyoming.

He may as well have played football in the South Pacific, as a Qb,.

In my opinion, Wyoming is not a football school that brings talent into the NFL, so I'd say it's like

bringing a double A player into the majors in baseball,

when you have the whole triple A system in front of you.

To be honest, I said the same thing about Aaron Rogers of Green Bay, because he played some time in Butte Jr College.

How this board will completely unravel if Allen is indeed the pick, lol.

While he’s not my favorite, I’ve said all the way back into last year how Allen could be a a Dorsey type of QB. Basing it on how Dorsey has drafted in the past. It really wouldn’t be a surprise to me.

Mahomes makes it a consideration.

However, each draft is different. Different players. Different situations.

This is not a trade and draft. We have the first pick.

This a matter about determining which player will be the Best going forward.

And forward doesn't even start until the season after this.

Thats the plan for now ...

I’m not sure what u think we have in TT .. hes a MASSIVE upgrade for us ... but he has his limitations ...

Its REALISTIC the rook could become a viable option at some point during the year ... if we draft Rosen or mayfield ... its very realistic ...

I like TT. I think he can be perfect with Haley and the players we have with him.


Let me put it this way....if we win, Hue will go with TT. If we start 1-4, Hue will be screaming he needs the rook, and I would be screaming that Hue hit the door.


Hue is out for Hue. He jerked Kizer around like a ragdoll for his own good. I don't like that, and I was never a big fan of Kizer, but that kid got screwed by Hue.


If I was Dorsey, I wouldn't even let Hue to talk to the new QB, let along decide on when he starts.


LOL....ok, he can talk to him. I would just tell Hue that Haley makes that call.



I don't like Hue, but do feel sorry for him.


I can see him going to Williams and saying we need to do this.....lol....same with Haley.



Hue may be liked and respected by players. I don't think so much around the coaching world.

A lot of screaming meemies if we select Allen I suspect - LOL.

Not I, however.

Give it up guys.. NO ONE has a clue what Dorsey is going to do. I love all the rumors from 3rd party unnamed sources that say we like certain players or Dorsey will pick this or that guy based on his previous drafts. The players in THIS draft for this team are a different world in a different time. I wouldnt be surprised if he took Barkley and then say he never had a chance to draft a RB with his skill set and he was BPA period.

Ah, Mahomes. I wonder if this is why many think the pick will be Allen...

The Mahomes pick for the Chiefs and Dorsey last year makes me think Mayfield is a consideration, not Allen necessarily. The body of work for Mahomes is far superior compared to Allen. And the only thing I feel they really have in common is the strong arm. I think people compare the arm strength and say we are taking Allen. I don't think Dorsey drafted Allen for his arm strength.

The things Dorsey said about Mahomes remind me of the things Mayfield does well. One thing that sticks in my mind is when I read that Mahomes was given a test to challenge his memory and retention. I've read, and can't locate where, that Mahomes passed this test with flying colors. In fact I believe he was the only one who passed. We also know that Dorsey was enamored with the fact that Mayfield memorized the Oklahoma playbook in 48 hours.

I've read this notion of information retention is a huge factor when drafting quarterbacks, but it's something we as fans never get any info on... Gruden would always rest this in his QB camp and most recently there's a clip of former Coach Mariucci with Mayfield and he's asked to remember a play the coach experienced to him minutes ago. Mayfield remembers.

My question is how does Allen fair in this regard? How about Rosen, or Darnold? If they don't fair as well as Mayfield, he's going to be the pick, easily.

I agree. Not much has been said about Mayfield since early on when Dorsey was linked to the guy one way or the other, and we hired some guy who says Mayfield is the best.

Since then, nothing.

My guess on the hush hush is we hope to get the Giants to move up one slot. I don't see how playing this QB bluff would have any impact on the 4th pick.

I think Mayfield is going to be the pick. Yesterday I read in one of the articles where a transition from TT to the new guy should be seamless. My thinking is that Baker would be that guy.

Until we hear from Dorsey’s wife’s hair dresser ... its all BS ... the wife’s hair dresser is always the first to know .... ALWAYS ....

J/C

For what it's worth, Nathan Zegura gives the quarterbacks these odds of being a Cleveland Brown on draft day;

Sam Darnold - 51%
Baker Mayfield - 20%
Josh Rosen - 15%
Josh Allen - 14%

Interesting. With all the buzz on Allen, someone who spends their day in Berea gives him only a 14% chance of having his name called.

I'm not saying Zegura is in the know, he himself often says he's not, but I do think he often knows more than he lets on. Which isn't shocking given his proximity to staff compared to that of some talking heads who have likely never even met anyone in inside the Browns building.

I wish I still had my crying baby meme.

Jordan Palmer and others who work with these prospects prepare them for that type of pop quiz.

The agents know the process. Here is the play. Talk about something else for a while. Now draw up the play.

Retention is one of many tests that are given.

This is not a surprise to the prospects. They are prepared.

And actually Mayfield was not completely right. He misplaced where Garrison Hurst was supposed to be.
===================================================

"If they don't fair as well as Mayfield, he's going to be the pick, easily. "
====================

That will not be the only criterion considered.

the same jordan palmer who worked with christian hackenberg?

how's he doing in his starting role with the jets?

What has that got to do with retention and draft evaluation?

Can't make chicken salad out of chicken sh@#(#@(t.

j/c...

1. I would love for it to be Mayfield but will be happy with either Darnold or Rosen as well.

2. This is such BS about Allen being our pick those analysts all should be ashamed of themselves.

3. Mahomes was taken #10 right around where Allen should be taken.

4. I hope Allen is the guy Denver is targeting and they believe Dorsey that Buffalo is trying hard to move to 4. I want #40 out of all this and we get Barkley or Ward at #5.

I just can't stop shaking my head at my keyboard when thinking anyone is stating reasons why Allen is the overall #1 pick and mostly draft analysis guys.

Point blank I will root for the kid but I will forever lose faith in Dorsey until the kid actually becomes a franchise QB...and guess what. If he is a bust Dorsey should be FIRED as FOREVER from the NFL. I will never forgive him.

Im right there with you.

Rosen and Mayfield are my guys. I get Darnold. The idea of Allen would leave me baffled.

I'll root for the kid, but I'll hate he pick and really begin to question Dorsey. The rest of his moves so far I've liked, so I really have to hope that these rumors are all smoke and no fire.

But your post really sums up exactly how I feel. Although, forgiving Dorsey or not doesn't matter to me. All that matters to me is making this a stable winning organization. And that starts with the QB position

Going back to November when I first started looking (unfortunately) at the quarterback class my first take on Allen has not changed.


Because of the route Allen traveled to get to this point he is a challenge to evaluate.

I really wonder what he would have done playing for one of the big college football programs.

When you play with guys who will never be pros and you play Wyoming's schedule??

Hard to tell what you have.

The other three are easier to judge.

Allen at the Senior Bowl for the week and the game was insightful.

He played with better players and made obvious strides.

At Wyoming you see Wow plays. You see touch throws. You can't deny the potential.

However you see lots of ugly. You see poor decisions. Inconsistent accuracy. Bad placement. Poor footwork. You see the arm but you see the same problem big arm guys often have. Wait till open then power throw.

So Allen kind of represents the ultimate high risk high reward guy. Like he will be spectacular or he will bust biggly.

In this class that puts him in the fifteen and below range.

It just seems illogical to take that risk with the first pick.

Darnold, Mayfield and Rosen are just way safer.

They produced in a higher level of competition. I can not rationalize the gamble associated with the selection of Allen.

He would have to be overwhelming in private workouts and interviews.

Agreed Bone. Allen may become a franchise QB but the pick at #1 is risky. I've liked Darnold and Rosen right along but SD is my #1. Rosen's injury history are concerning to me. I like SD at #1 and Chubb or Barkley at #4 but Whomever our FO takes at 4 will be a need and a good player that I really have no problem with.

Pick four is gravy. Hard to go wrong with the options available.

The First Pick, a quarterback for the Browns with our history.

Dorsey has to be right. You can't blow this.

The floor should be a above average quarterback who has a decent career.


You cannot bust this pick. You just can't.

Darnold to me has a high floor. I just can't see the guy being a bust. At the same time he has a high ceiling. He could be a great.

I know I'm in the minority here, but I don't get it...

Why do we quantify whether or not a QB is worthy of the #1 overall pick? That's the pick we have. If you view him as your franchise QB, it doesn't matter if it's #1, #15 or #22 (okay, 22 is cursed). Is he going to play any better or worse depending on the number? Probably not.



Not picking on you, just making a point... Mahomes pick is viewed as good value. Why? Because most people think (with very limited proof) that he is going to translate to franchise QB. Now, I'm not going to get into comparing and contrasting him and Allen. I think most would agree that they are both viewed as high ceiling, rough around the edges, strong-armed, "gonna take some time" prospects.

Yet- The Chiefs traded their #1 (27), 3rd round and 2018 1st round pick for him. That's at least two impact players, right?

Isn't that just as big, if not a bigger, risk than us taking Allen at #1?

My point is - you draft where you are slated to draft. QBs are almost always over-drafted, it's the nature of the beast. Be thankful you have the opportunity to draft your guy, the draft slot doesn't really matter.

A good question is this...

Who is the better QB prospect. Mahomes or Allen?

We all know Dorsey moved up to take Mahomes. Let's assume for a moment that Mahomes and Allen are equal. The question is would Dorsey have taken Mahomes (or Allen) if he had Darnold, Rosen, and Mayfield as options?

In my mind, this year's QB class is better, at least deeper, than last year's class. If Mahomes were in this class, I don't think he would have been the 2nd QB taken, he would have been 4-5th.

I think you are spot on.

Mahomes and Allen are close and similar.

This draft is a matter of independent perception.

Some teams will go for a number of these guys. Just look at the trades made for a shot at any of the top guys.

So yes Mahomes and Allen would have teams liking them close to the way it is now.

You are spot on.

Bonefish is spot on as well... perception.

Teams between 10 and 20 in the first round are looking from the perspective of "deep class". The Browns? Just pick your guy.

It's almost as if the Browns are starting over with the ammunition they should have been given by the NFL in '99.
"Go ahead and pick your top QB, and grab yourself a high-impact player as well."

The extra scrutiny comes because it's the #1 pick. The best way for the Browns to battle that is to make sure that QB never takes the field in '18. Period.

Continue the build-out with the talent you have. Taylor an offense around Tyrod. Draft Chub and wreak havoc on defense. Take advantage of "deep class" in the RB dept.

If we draft Allen, it just means we've seen enough progress in the instruction he's received the last few months... the tools were never a question. It also means we're willing to take on the burden of development.

One thing we know for sure. It would be a brass-balls move by a new GM and one that will probably dictate his fate within two years.

Allen is being mentioned at for a reason.

I don't think numerous people are projecting him to us because they think he stinks and we are bound to blow the pick.

It's probably because he has the highest ceiling. Along with that he has bust potential.

So, are we wanting the best QB or are we wanting the safest choice? That's the decision.

Again, I am not saying Allen is the best QB, but a lot of people seem to think he will be the best. All of these people running mocks and evaluating players aren't just goofing around and linking us to Allen because it is a big joke on us.

I see what you did there...cleverly done.

Why do we quantify whether or not a QB is worthy of the #1 overall pick? That's the pick we have. If you view him as your franchise QB, it doesn't matter if it's #1, #15 or #22 (okay, 22 is cursed). Is he going to play any better or worse depending on the number? Probably not.

I see what you mean. No that is not actually what I'm saying when I say #1 - top 5 #10 or 15.

Is a QB is associated with a slot due to their SKILL SET. The more away from #1 the more risk you expect. So when I say #1 or #10 I'm stating skill set and risk factor. And the only reason Allen would be 10 is a run on QBs - if they go 1, 2, 3
That moves everyone up slots.

But for me actually skill set and risk factor. Allen shouldn't even be considered in the first round. But if taken it shouldn't be sooner than 10 but I know NFL teams get wowed by the big guys while the Rodgers, Brees and probably Mayfield will drop.

But the kid just isn't close to being accurate enough to be successful in the NFL. Yes, his high ceiling could be Favre but his low ceiling could be Brady Quinn.

Just too much risk for an overall #1 pick.

jmho

I just can't see how we can justify drafting the guy.

I don't see what the analysts who view him as a possible top guy see. I don't see any of it.

I see a tall, athletic player, with a big arm and big hands; who is inaccurate, makes poor decisions, and doesn't produce on the football field. I've seen comparisons to Matthew Stafford, but I watched Matthew Stafford at Georgia. He was a very good QB. You watched him play and said, man, he's an NFL QB. Ben Roethlisberger and Carson Wentz, those guys were really good players. I mean, every field that Big Ben stepped on his final season at Miami (OH), he stood out as probably the best player on the field. At least in terms of impact. Carson Wentz played very well and led his team to championships.

Josh Allen hasn't shown any of that. The guy has yet to impress me. Because, i'm not going to be impressed by a workout. None of it means a thing IMO. I don't care how you look in shorts. Nor do I care how great you did on an IQ test. The only thing that matters is what you can do in a game. And Josh Allen doesn't pass my eye test at all.


So, yup. No idea what could justify this guy being the number 1 pick. If it's gonna be Allen, I'd rather just trade down or something

Lets be honest here Dorsey has a 75 percent chance of getting bashed by Browns fans no matter what he does with the 1st pick. Whichever QB we take has to turn out to be the best of the top 4 guys during his career to keep from having most fans calling for his head to be severed, tared and feathered, and then served to them on a silver platter.

I still believe that will be Allen or Mayfield. If we want a QB who will be average or good then it's Rosen. If we want to draft Kizer 2.0 then we take the turnover machine from USC

Well said, I agree.


Just reading comments, it seems most around here would opt for the safe pick, and that very well could be the way we should go.

I keep reading about player negatives. Turnovers, isn't accurate, isn't committed. With Mayfield the only knock is his height.

As I have said before, if Mayfield was 6'3" there wouldn't be a QB discussion about #1. The only talk would be about who goes after Mayfield. Next in line would be Allen IMO.

I don't think you can go in to a draft trying not to be wrong.

Before Allen took over in 2016 as QB at Wyoming, they were 3-9 in 2014 and 2-10 in 2015. They went 8-6 and 8-5 the next 2 years and a bowl game, I would say that he turned that program around.

But I am sure you will twist that around to be meaningless. Your bias towards Allen is incredibly transparent.

Didn't Wentz play there 2 years ago?

I'm not sure that is exactly true. If the QB he drafts proves to be a good long term QB, I don't think it will matter if one or more of the others have a better career, within reason. If one or more absolutely studs out, and we end up with a league average starter, it may have repercussions. But if the guy he drafts becomes a top 10 QB while another becomes a top 5, I think the fan base will be fine with the choice as long as he captains a winning team. We've been too long in the wilderness.

Wentz played at North Dakota State

Comparing Kizer to Darnold is absurd.

Kizer was drafted when?

What was his numbers in college compared to Darnold? What did Kizer accomplish at ND versus Darnold?

Just watching them on the field; two completely different players.

There is no way you could have watched them play very many games and come to that conclusion.

I got my guy ... Sammie .... if we pick him i will be happy and root for him and hope me and the rest of Sams army was right ....

If we draft anyone else ... i wont be as happy but wont be upset either ... we all have our favorites but the fact is theres 3 really good picks and then Allen who has a lower floor but also the highest ceiling ... if they draft him it means they saw enough senior bowl week to think his accuracy is from mechanical issues that are being and can be fixed ... i have to hope their right ...

No matter who we pick ... im not going to bitch and moan ... im just gonna root like hell for whoever we pick to be really really good ...

If we do pick Allen ... it will be an EPIC board meltdown and the SHORTEST HONEYMOON EVER ... the pick may be worth it for that alone ... *L*

I actually think Kizer and Allen are a more apt comparison than Kizer and Darnold.

Yeah. We'd have to HIDE Allen for the entire year. And I'm not kidding.

Just a general reply to some stuff in here,

Allen's receivers never got open but Allen sure as hell didnt do them any favors either. 8 yard cross ball goes 30 yards not good. His feet however were everywhere and that can be correctd over time but Rosen and Darnold throw with a great deal of anticipation and accuracy, Mayfield gets the ball out super quick and shows tremendous accuracy,

Since the big ben class, I have 2 QBs rated above Darnold and Rosen and those are Andrew Luck and Derek Carr. Mayfield would be up there as well but his size and maturity worry me, His game on the field is as good as anyones,

This is a hell of a QB class, I would not be surprised if we dont see 9 or 10 starting QBs out of this class over the next 3 or 4 years, hell I think we could see 7 QBs go in the first this year,

Allen's play those two years does not suggest he's the one who "turned around" the program. In 2014, Wyoming hired Craig Bohl who led NDST to 3 straight FCS championship titles. Tough to overlook that...

I saw that as well... and without Gruden's camp, I don't see too much about this from the other quarterbacks.

And I don't think any of us, me included, know how much teams weigh the retention factor. I've read somewhere it's the most important trait some GMs look for, but I agree, it's not the only criterion. I believe it's the trait that got Mahomes drafted by the Chiefs last year.

Who do you think recruited Allen to Wyoming thinking he had the next Carson Wentz.

Why does his play not suggest he was significantly responsible for turning that program around.

Was it all the other NFL bound players in Wyoming?

Well, now I'm curious to see how Wyoming does this upcoming season to see if you're right...

I am comparing the turnovers I believe Darnold will commit to the ones Kizer did commit. Like I said this is my opinion. I may be right I may be wrong. I have not bashed and will not bash anybody who disagree's with me. Down the road we will all find out who's opinion was correct.

Sam Darnold - 90%
Josh Rosen - 8%
The field - 2%

edit: for clarity, these are my estimations.

Darnold's int's are not much different over his two years to anyone's in this draft.

If you factor in the OL play from 2016 and 2017 there are obvious differences.

His fumbles. No excuses there. But that is correctable. You can see that since the season ended.


The real differences between them is in what they can do.

Darnold throws with accuracy and anticipation. Kizer never did.

Darnold carried his team to many victories. It is clear in record alone. Kizer that was not the case.

Darnold will be selected early. Kizer was not.

What confuses me is that people wish to listen to the draft gurus who make a living getting hits on their web sites and ratings on TV over the experts in Vegas putting their money on the line.

These draft sites put new mocks up several times before the draft and people can't grasp the concept that they're doing it for ratings and hits on the internet?

Here's MY odds..

Sam Darnold - 50%
Josh Rosen - 50%
Baker Mayfield - 0%
Josh Allen - 0%
The Rest - 0%

Agreed! I have no horse in this race; that is for those guys making the pick. I do listen to those on this board whose opinions I respect. I may "cherry-pick" those posts, but only sway my opinion slightly...

Yes. It is transparent. I spent March and January watching film on these guys. I have seen Allen play. I'm not impressed.

How could I not be biased? I'm reading all these reports of him coming to the Browns, and I'm baffled. A guy who doesn't make good reads, is inconsistent with his accuracy, and doesn't throw it with anticipation. What the heck is there to like?



As for Wyomings turn around. I didn't see Wyoming before Josh Allen. So I don't know too much about them. I do know that they brought in a coach who won multiple national championships. I reckon that helped improve the play of the team.

As I've said. I've seen small school QBs. They generally dominate against their competition. This guy didn't.

Drafting Josh Allen, IMO, would be a huge mistake. It would be a career killer for Dorsey and Hue Jackson. Most importantly, it would set the Browns back a couple years, as being successful in this league with even mediocre QB play is very difficult

Which is why we WILL NOT draft Allen.

It's Darnold.

We're talking up Allen for a move from 4.

Right. It just comes down to common sense. Allen has too many negatives. Why would we then draft him? I believe Darnold is the guy. JMO

Sure hope so. Although, I'd rather stay at four or only move down one to the Broncos. I'd like the best non-qb in the draft be-it Chubb, Fitzpatrick or Barkley.


I am fine with Darnold. I'd far prefer Rosen and I'd prefer Mayfield. But Darnold is fine by me. Allen would be very difficult to take. Let's just say that I've lost sleep dealing with the idea of selecting Allen. I haven't for the three other QBs

Who's talking up? ( besides some press wanna be's) I Never hear a GM talking about any draft prospect in a negative light before a draft. Only ONE person knows who he wants and he AINT talking. The rest is pure gossip at a water fountain.

I imagine they all sit together and try to have a consensus (Dorsey, Jackson, Berry, Hightower, Wolfe, Haley, Zampese). It would be stupid with the number 1 pick for Dorsey not to discuss his feelings with these guys.

Unless he's not concerned "these guys" will be around long enough to matter... If they don't like the pick and don't want to coach him, then he'll find someone who does... This is Dorsey's team now.

I don't see how that bluff would have any impact on 4? I don't see other teams rushing to move up to 4 after we didn't draft him. What are they going to do? "Well, the Browns really liked him, he must be good!"

I could see trying to get the Giants to move up 1 slot. Maybe we think they like Allen.

I agree. I do not see the point in "bluffing" with Allen. I think they really like 2 QBs - Darnold and Allen. One of those will be the choice at #1. I would prefer Darnold, but would not lose my mind, as some would, if we chose Allen.

I think we end up drafting Baker Mayfield #1 and Denzel Ward at #4.

I don't think Allen is even in the picture. I'm not sure how you can take that big of a risk drafting a guy like this with the #1 overall pick when there are better options.

Sorry for the tangent on the Allen thread, but I've contended throughout the process we were going Darnold or Mayfield.

Mayfield makes a lot of sense when I look at the information. The rumors that Mccloughan was talking up Mayfield to Darnold at the combine and then the Browns hired him? And now nary a peep about him?

Mayfield had a two day visit with the Browns. Have any of the other quarterbacks visited for this long?

I've read that because he drafted Mahomes, that means Allen is the pick. They both have strong arms and that is what Dorsey covets... No it isn't. Alex Smith doesn't have a strong arm, neither does Kevin Hogan, Tyrod Taylor, Drew Stanton....

You listen to Dorsey talk about Mahomes and he doesn't mention arm strength. He never mentions size. But everything he does mention fits Mayfield to a T.

Link

Mayfield was also the 1st quarterback brought in for a visit.

Link

Mary Kay, who I really don't care to quote but will, said yesterday she talked to some upper level scout who said the pick is going to be Allen or Mayfield. It's not going to be Allen, so that leaves....

Link


Mayfield.

I read an interesting article on another site.

To make a long story short, the coaches wanted Rosen. The FO wanted Mayfield. The coaches came to Mayfield after the med reports on Rosen weren't good.

Our picks according to this "insider" will be Mayfield and Denzel Ward at #4.

I would be fine with Mayfied as well.

You read the same thing as I. And that we've been mum on Mayfield in hopes to see if we could draft him at 4. But Dorsey is prepared to take him at 1 and he's been all in on Mayfield this entire time.

I hope it's true. I guess we'll know in a week and a half.

This is the shortest game cut-up I could find.

Its a decent microcosm of Allen as prospect.
You see him sail a couple of throws.
You see him rip a 20ish yard deep out from the opposite hash that gets dropped.
You see him throw a rip a ~25ish yards in the air corner route against the hole in cover 2 that gets dropped.
You see him break free pressure on 3rd down and scramble for a 1st down.
You see him force a some balls into coverage that get broken up and almost intercepted.
Then you see him boot right and throw back across his body for TD for the win as time expires.

I wouldn't put much stock in that. Dorsey is notoriously close to the vest when it comes to the draft (this should be taken as a positive), and I highly doubt someone in a position to know would anonymously relay information about our #1/#4 picks on a message board.

I think that's why this is entirely plausible.

Brett Favre-ish...

I have trouble seeing how some have Allen as the #1 QB in the draft when the vaunted Mountain West conference has him at #3.

I understand what you are saying. But that last line is very confusing. What possibly bias would Petey or for that matter myself have regarding Allen outside of the fact we think that at this moment HE SUCKS as a QB. What is transparent? again yes, Petey and I both think he sucks that most certainly is transparent. I guess you can say we both have a Bias opinion on the Browns taking a SUCKY QB. In that situation I guess your claim is true.

I understand the kid can progress but the risk is great and Accuracy is a big thing to overcome, I would be fine if it was decision making or something of that nature. But ACCURACY is to me and I think most NFL GM/Personnel men the most important variable in a NFL Prospective QB. Its also the hardest to turn around.

Its like lets say 40 time speed wise is the MOST important variable for X position. And you got a guy who is 5.2 speed.
Do I expect improvement? Yes possibly he can be instructed to the point that he will become 4.7 speed. But its a position that you are looking for 4.4 to become great.

There is just so much you can improve on Accuracy as a QB.

Man, I hope we shock the NFL and pick Mayfield...I would love that pick to no end!

jmho

Didn't we get rid of Kizer?

For the record that quote was made by me not Petey.

Yes, I see and actually agree with that statement. They actually are so so similar. How can we trade one and then pick another not at 52 but at #1. Actually more similar than one would think.

I forgot about looking at Kizer. The pick of Allen just doesn't make sense in many ways. Probably #1 would be they are very very similar QBs and we just traded one. Allen would simply be Kizer 2.0 and one year behind.

very good point there DaveyD

Show me 1 big arm QB who has not had some accuracy issues. Some overcome it (Favre, Stafford), and some do not.

This kid has superb athleticism, can extend plays, is intelligent, hard-working, a leader, has won some in college, and has one of the best arms to come into the NFL.

Comparing him to Kizer and Quinn is utter nonsense. Nothing like either, especially the latter. Watch him throw vs either of them and it is night and day. His throwing mechanics are spot on. Quinn and Kizer had/have horrible arm mechanics. He gets his footwork straightened out, his ceiling is higher than anyone in this draft - in my opinion.

Having said that, I hope the Browns take Darnold.

No QB in this draft is a sure thing but to me Darnold is a safer pick than Allen with just as much upside. JMO

Is this the one about how some guy's brother in law is (was?) an employee for the Giants? Even if he is legit... how would he be plugged into John Dorsey's thinking?

I don't put a lot of stock in it, but it was believable....more so than most.

I also read somewhere that there is a push to change Mayfields mind about not attending the draft. Word is that there is a team who wants him hoisting their jersey on draft night.

Well, from what you are saying at least Kizer had the excuse of bad mechanics, and could improve on that...

If Josh's throw mechanics are spot on, why is he so inaccurate?

I think Kizer was a better prospect than Josh.. Honestly don't know why his stock is so high, except for the Jordan Palmer's endorsement, INMHO he would be a 2d round pic at best.

Could be. If I had to guess, I'd say that team would be the Jets.

I'll be very surprised if the Browns take Mayfield at 1. Completely shocked, in fact. But, you never know.. that's the exciting part about the draft.

I'm with Peen on this... I'm not saying it's true, but I'm saying it was said and it sounds entirely plausible.

I've wondered for weeks why did we sign Mccloughan right after it was reported he was talking to Dorsey about Mayfield. Did we want him as another voice in the room to support Mayfield?

I read many things and no doubt it's not everything, but I've never seen anyone comment that we hired a guy who quickly said Mayfield was his #1 QB. And it was reported on 2/10 that he was still his top QB.

Granted, maybe not all of this is true... but with Highsmith and Wolf, what need did we have to hire McCloughan other than having another voice for Mayfield in the building.

The ultimate decision on QB is technically with the owner. If Haslam doesn't sign off on it then we aren't drafting him. But Haslam said he was going to stay out of the way.

Highsmith is also a fan of Mayfield. He's even liked tweets about Mayfield being the top QB. Maybe this is all smoke and not sure why he'd even do that...

I think this is one of the most awesome drafts we've ever witnessed because we are less than 10 days away and we have no idea who the #1 pick is... heck it could still be a position player like Chubb.

I'm not taking what I read from some Giant's scout as gospel, but I think it is entirely possible that the first pick in the 2018 draft is Baker Mayfield. I don't understand how anyone could be "shocked" that he'd be the pick. He was the heisman trophy winner and was easily the best QB we've seen coming out of college since Andrew Luck.

The shock would be if we draft Josh Allen....

My opinion is the pick is, was, and always has been Darnold. Everything else is due diligence, smoke screens, and people making stuff up.

I guess we'll find out on April 26th.

Ok I'll admit that this probably oversimplifies things. I'm sure there are dissenting opinions. What I mean by this is that Darnold is the pick, and at any given time we've had the discussions, Darnold would have been the pick all along. Not everyone in the Browns organization has to like it. At the end of the day, Dorsey calls the shots and he is going to pick Sam Darnold.

It might even be true that some guy on a message board has a brother in law who works for the Giants, and he really was told that Mayfield is going to the Browns.

It's still hard to tell what that means. Maybe the Giants brass really thinks that. Maybe the Giants want Darnold to fall to 2. Maybe they want other teams to think that is a possibility, thereby increasing the value of the 2nd pick. Maybe it's just disinfo, trying to sniff out leaks, or putting it out there for whatever reason. Maybe this anonymous poster isn't being honest about his connections. You just don't really know.

As I stated, his footwork is his biggest issue with accuracy. He has a tendency to over stride and as a result, his ball will sail. That is correctable with repetition.

I always thought the misinfo was that we wanted Darnold.

Things stand out to me. For instance what Dorsey says about Mahomes it sounds just like Mayfield. When Dorsey says if you know what I'm doing I'm not doing my job.

I've followed Allbright since the email incident and he seems wired in. He's been saying Darnold since day one. But his source is someone on the coaching side of things. If legit, these "new leaks" are obviously from the front office side of things.

I have resigned myself to the notion that Darnold is the pick, guys like bone have talked him up that I think he's going to be very good player, but I still believe Mayfield is the prize.

I haven't give up hope on this, however... The one thing that I keep going back to is the hiring of McCoughlan. Why? We have Highsmith and Wolf, how many top execs do we need? Why hire a guy who says Mayfield is the top QB without blinking an eye. Why bring that controversy into the fold? Why? Why hire a guy who is trying to convince the organization to draft a quarterback when that quarterback isn't the one you really want to draft? Why?

Maybe I'm just thinking way too hard about this. Maybe that's just a smokescreen and Mccloughan doesn't care that much for Mayfield. Maybe we want teams to think we are going Mayfield and we'll end up with Darnold or Rosen. Maybe the pick is Rosen and everything we see and hear is us trying to convince everyone else we aren't taking him and we will take Chubb 1 and Rosen 4?

Everything is still on the table....

I'll be disappointed if we don't draft Mayfield, but I'll be excited if it's Darnold or Rosen. I really don't see how it could ever be Allen. I'll throw up if that's the case.

Reading your post, I wonder if you were fine with the drafting of Kizer last season? None of the QB's in this year draft have proven a thing at the NFL level. All the hype is just projections on potential. If Allen is there at number 54 in the 2nd round, would you take him? We all know that Allen will not make it to the second round. For a QB who you have said SUCKS, he will most likely be taken early in the NFL draft. The Browns can not play it conservatively with this draft. They have to draft BOLDLY and with an eye on winning.

Few analysts think Darnold will play day one or would be ready to play day one in the NFL. Many believe that Darnold will benefit from sitting a year or two behind a veteran QB. The #1 overall pick is not a place to have a player sit for a year or two IMHO. If you feel some compulsion to sit a QB a year or two, Allen has a higher upside in my opinion than Darnold so you will not lose if you do sit him a year or two as is projected for Darnold.

Allen is the choice in my opinion. He has always been the choice in my opinion based on size, pro-style offense in college, arm strength, and mobility. I would not be upset with the Browns if they take Darnold #1 overall. I just would not do it if the choice was mine to make. I believe the upside to Darnold is at best Matt Ryan. I believe the upside for Allen is Ben Roethlisberger. Ask yourself who you would rather have as an AFC North QB if my upside comparisons come to pass?

Voleur

Allen may pan out, but do we have the right coach to get him there?

Just listened to these analysts on this pod cast:

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ss...art_river_index

Both picked Darnold.

Allen was ranked 7th as in the 7th best quarterback. The other analysts said Allen is not a first rounder.

There is way to much risk with Allen. It would be different if he was in another draft. But it makes no sense to gamble when there are three guys that flat out are better.

I wouldn't even consider Allen at 1. It would be one thing if this were 2013 (where the Chiefs picked first and EJ Manuel was the only first round QB that year, at #16), or if we only had the #4 pick this year and Darnold/Rosen/Mayfield were all off the board. Then you'd have to decide whether that risk is worth it.

As is, it's not going to happen. Why would you take Allen #1.. it doesn't make any sense. We should go with that, and not get caught up in all the smoke and mirrors that said Allen is going #1.

Just figure we hired McCloughan for his expertise on all prospects, not just the QBs. We have a lot more picks than #1. He already made his comment about Mayfield to that radio station. The Browns didn't hire him just to confirm that.

Like I said though, we'll see on April 26th. I think it'll be Darnold. If I had to pick a dark horse, it would be Rosen. It's a small chance, but I don't think you can completely dismiss the guy who is the best pure thrower in the draft, who has great mechanics and high football IQ. I'd be shocked if it was anyone else. In one of these threads I suggested the following probability:

Darnold - 90%
Rosen - 8%
Others - 2%

I resigned myself to that take as well which is why I didn't bring it up. And maybe that's all it is... but why bring in a guy who you knowingly may not want to draft the guy you want to draft at #1?

I jokingly but not really put Mayfield at 90%. But I think your Darnold 90% is 50/50 Darnold/Mayfield. I don't know how we could overlook the best quarterback in the draft, so I really think Mayfield has been in play this whole time... and he's a "finalist" for the top pick overall.

Actually, nothing will surprise me, but I'll be a little curious if the pick is Allen.

Now, forgive me if I didn't understand you on the first place.

Throw mechanics, like you define, are considered to be intrinsic to the QB and will hardly change. Also you can have a number of difference throw mechanics and be accurate.

Taking in consideration Kizer, it was believed that the major reason for his inaccuracy his the same that you are mentioning with Josh. There was nothing wrong with Kizer's throw mechanics, problem was the platform.

All this takes us to my point. All in all Kizer was a much better prospect, better career and more accurate... Josh has a better arm, but Kizer also has a cannon.

Allen was a baseball pitcher. He knows how to throw a ball - watch the damn tape. If you cannot tell what proper arm mechanics are, I cannot help you. Smooth,fluid, and effortless is Alleb. Kizer has to muscle up to throw anything with velocity. Kizer poor, Allen good.

Allen >>> Kizer.

Weeden played baseball too.

My son quit HS football because playing QB was throwing off his pitching mechanics so much. He decided being a pitcher was more important than being a quarterback.

For someone to say that they are the same... has never plated QB or a been a pitcher at the same time. They are so different it's not even funny. However, because they are close to the same, it causes a lot of issues when kids do both. You have to be pretty rare in nature to look good mechanically throwing a football and being a pitcher.

allen made a throw rolling to his right along the sideline during senior bowl practice that literally made my chin drop. He is a freak but again, concerns with the shoulder and collarbone. Was not a small crack but it was in 7 pieces. this was after he broke it the first time. He improved steadily thoughout the senior bowl week and looked much more fluid through the combines and proday which shows he is far from a finished product. greatest upside to anyone in the draft.

Now also consider he just never had a game where he looks unstoppable and this was against C level competition. I gives a damn that his receivers struggled to get open, he just didnt shine brightly as the star above everyone else. It wasnt that he failed to throw people open he failed to get it in the same area code at times.

Not saying he is destined to fail but for me, I would take 5 QBs ahead of him, and I still think he is a first round QB. Just back end of first not at the top.

At the end of the day, I am happy with Darnold, Rosen or Mayfield although Mayfield scares the crap out of me also.

There is probably a League memo floating around the FO...that reads as follows;

The League will fine you --said-- amount of money if you, leak the information as to who you will be selecting or trading the first selection. This --said-- amount will be equal to, or exceeding to the calculated amount determined of the loss of media , and sponsors revenues.

If they don't know who they like with the first selection by now, then they are in the wrong business imo.

We are still over a week out from the draft.

We know who is going to be the #1 pick before the draft every year. I don't think this year will be different.

So did Matt Stafford, Tom Brady, and Russell Wilson.

I'm about as close to done with this team as one can be. I used to never miss a second, and I've thrown in the towel more times than I've made the time to watch the last few years.

If we take Allen, I may be done.

He's a fine 2nd-3rd round flier - big athlete with a gun who can move, but isn't accurate and can't read defenses. Those guys pretty much never pan out, and you don't take them in the first, let alone in the top 5.

Bout time you came around to the Mayfield camp...lol

I just can hope...best thing will be how he will slowly get some dawgs over on his corner. Kid will be great for us! I know some will love it. Some will be very skeptical. But he is so so good. As I think Peen keeps reminding everyone. If he was 6'3" or more it would be a no brainer. Well guess what. He's been over 6' and he doesn't have a stat regarding that. He is who he is all his life!

Oh man if he is a Brown come the 26th! Getting close and I'm getting a little giddy.

Also as stated as long as its one of the 3: Darnold, Mayfield or Rosen.

Allen is the only of the top 4.

There may actually be some truth to that. It might not be a memo that literally says that, but years back teams used to sometimes announce the #1 pick ahead of time. This took some of the luster off the draft and the league put the kibosh on it. It's reasonable to think that if the team with the #1 pick makes their selection widely known, it won't be looked at favorably by the league.

And yeah, Dorsey knows who he is going to select. It's a safe bet the Haslams know also. The next tier of people (who are likely to know, but not for certain) would probably be Hue and some of the higher level executives and anything that comes out from that group is probably more likely to be smoke than it is to be real. This is why we have some people convinced Mayfield is the guy, others worried we're going to pick Allen, and some even think it could be Barkley or Chubb. (???)

What was it that Dorsey said? If you know who I'm going to take, I'm not doing my job.

I agree, ...but first you must define...WE...because I can can count four different choices for that selection in this thread.

I guess that defines who we aren't by omission.

Good quote

thanks

So per the other thread (see Grateful's post), Hue says Dorsey hasn't settled on which QB he'll draft. Of course Dorsey knows who is he is going to draft. This makes me think Hue really doesn't know who it will be, or it's possible he does and this is his way to not spill the beans. Who knows.

Yeah, I saw that...I came away thinking...nice white washing lol.

Their board is set...maybe not set on which scenario of combinations, but their board is set, which doesn't preclude them from looking at whatsoever offers may come their way.

The right coach, I would hate to comment on that one. I have my doubts on the abilities of a coach who has a 1-31 record as your HC.

If you believe that Allen has the higher upside potential and you are not drafting to not lose but are drafting to win, Allen makes all the sense in the world, IMHO.

Allen is a low floor, high ceiling prospect, with high bust potential. His accuracy is horrible, and his anticipation is seriously lacking.

I cannot imagine a new regime, with the top pick, and 3 other legitimate options at QB, would take that chance.

And his low floor is like BQ low.

lack of poise in the pocket is an understatement in many of his games.
He will rush many throws, which in turn leads to his low completion %.

Lamar Jackson looks like a smooth operator in comparison to Allens tape and has a much higher floor, above that of Teddy Bridgwater imo.

The only way we should consider Allen is if we are set take another position (BPA), or to trade out of one (God forbid, we do) and expect three Qb's to come off the board by our forth selection, thinking to take Allen if he is available, but if Lamar Jackson was on the board in this scenario, then I would take Jackson.

Drafting Allen is not exactly drafting to win. Too big of a gamble. The bust potential is there. While he may have the highest ceiling of the top QBs in the draft, he also has the lowest floor. He is the least ready to play in the NFL right now, and it will take a lot of work to get him there, if he can get there.

Drafting Allen is more like trying to show everyone that you're the smartest guy in the room.

[quote=Voleur] If you believe that Allen has the higher upside potential and you are not drafting to not lose but are drafting to win, Allen makes all the sense in the world, IMHO. [/quote

Do you know who unquestionably had the highest upside potential in the 2007 draft?

JaMarcus Russell.

High ceilings mean nothing if the odds of getting off the floor are slim to none.

Hopefully when we start winning more than we lose this year and the years coming up. I hope all you dawgs are going to give Hue the credit for those wins and our record.

Some how I got a feeling I will not see that praise put upon him.

Josh Allen makes NO SENSE at all for us at #1...None!

Allen sitting behind eli for 2 or 3 years makes the most sense.

I hope this Allen talk is just to try to get the Jets to swap picks. First it was rumored we wanted Darnold and so did the Giants but they haven't bit so know it's rumored we want Allen to entice the Jets. I wonder if maybe the FO is looking at Mayfield or maybe one of the non QBs at #1.

https://twitter.com/PFF_Neil/status/986617154811387904

If Mayfield is the guy Dorsey wants, fine, I don’t like him as the face of the Browns but will trust what Dorsey sees. On the other hand he can be had, IMO with a small trade down, IE the jets, so why not do that?

Josh allen would make an awesome TE.

What if Josh Allen were black?

(That's my Jeopardy answer.)

lol

honestly though, if allen was black, he wouldn't come close to being considered #1 overall.

he'd be getting the Kizer treatment. with his numbers be worse than kizer, probably wouldn't go past the 3rd-4th round.

I believe that the success of the Cleveland Browns in 2018 has less to do with Hue Jackson and more to do with the HC Haley and the DC. Hue Jackson has had 32 games to show his abilities to lead a team. He has failed. I hope he has learned something. I believe the Browns have more talent on the roster in 2018 than 2019. All that being said, Hue Jackson has to win and win big now. A 5-11 season with the commitment the team has made to improve is not good enough in my opinion. I hope Hue Jackson succeeds beyond my wildest dreams. I am not confident of it though.

As for Josh Allen making no sense for the Browns, I still do not follow the reasoning you have given. If he is such a horrible prospect, why is he being associated with the top of the NFL draft even when the Browns take Darnold with the #1 pick? Are other teams more sense for him? Is having Josh Allen prosper in New York make the Cleveland Browns any better for having passed on him? If you believe that the #1 overall pick should be a QB, not named Allen, and they should sit behind Tyrod Taylor for the 2018 campaign, your logic for not taking Allen is destroyed by your own argument for taking another QB at #1.

Every one of the QBs in the draft have potential to be busts. I do not even know where the smartest guy in the room comment comes from.

For the Giants it makes sense. Makes no sense for the Browns.

No one has the bust potential of Allen. Of the top QBs in the draft he has the worst odds of becoming a franchise guy. Inaccurate, stares down receivers, poor decisions. He wasn’t even 1st or 2nd team in the Mountain West conference.

When you have the pick of any QB in the draft and you take Allen, you are trying to show you know more than all of the evaluators who have other guys rated higher. Huge gamble passing on guys for Allen. He is not ready, not close. I doubt one year will be enough. Draft him we better extend Taylor.

The next week will feel like a month . . .

Browns notebook: Former GM Phil Savage among those who believe Josh Allen-to-Cleveland buzz

Published: April 19, 2018 - 10:20 AM

By Nate Ulrich
Beacon Journal/Ohio.com
Former Browns General Manager Phil Savage is buying into the hype that Wyoming quarterback Josh Allen could be drafted first overall by Cleveland on April 26.

Savage explained his reasoning Wednesday when he was asked during a conference call which quarterback he thinks the Browns will pick at No. 1.

“If you asked me that a week ago, I’d give you a different answer than I’m going to give you right now, but in my estimation, with Tyrod Taylor being in place as the starter for 2018, I think they do have time to work or develop behind the scenes one of these quarterbacks that they take,” said Savage, the executive director of the Senior Bowl and an analyst for SiriusXM NFL Radio. “And in that division, in that environment weather-wise, AFC North, I think it could conceivably be Josh Allen when it’s all said and done.

Savage explained his reasoning Wednesday when he was asked during a conference call which quarterback he thinks the Browns will pick at No. 1.

“If you asked me that a week ago, I’d give you a different answer than I’m going to give you right now, but in my estimation, with Tyrod Taylor being in place as the starter for 2018, I think they do have time to work or develop behind the scenes one of these quarterbacks that they take,” said Savage, the executive director of the Senior Bowl and an analyst for SiriusXM NFL Radio. “And in that division, in that environment weather-wise, AFC North, I think it could conceivably be Josh Allen when it’s all said and done.

“He’s the biggest body of all [the top-rated quarterbacks in this class]. He’s played in cold weather. To me, the evaluation on him is not really what he would give you this coming weekend but what he’s going to give you 18 months from now. To me, he’s got the highest upside, maybe, but he’s got the most room to grow I think also amongst the four quarterbacks that are here at the top of the draft.”

The four top-rated quarterbacks are Allen, Southern California’s Sam Darnold, Oklahoma’s Baker Mayfield and UCLA’s Josh Rosen.

Browns coach Hue Jackson insisted Tuesday they’re all still in the mix for the top pick and that new General Manager John Dorsey has yet to settle on his choice. Dorsey is scheduled to hold a pre-draft news conference at 11:30 a.m. Thursday at team headquarters in Berea.

Darnold had been widely considered the favorite to become the top pick, but in the past few weeks the national buzz linking Allen to the Browns has been constant.

“I think Cleveland is going to stay there [at No. 1] and take either Sam Darnold or Josh Allen,” ESPN analyst Todd McShay said Wednesday during a conference call. “More people in the league I talk to are saying Josh Allen now, but until John Dorsey has said it or the commissioner announces the name, you just never know.”

Allen possesses elite arm strength, and many people in league circles have noted how Dorsey covets the trait. Dorsey worked for the Green Bay Packers when they won Super Bowls with strong-armed QBs Brett Favre and Aaron Rodgers. He was the GM of the Kansas City Chiefs last year when they traded up from No. 27 overall to No. 10 to pick Patrick Mahomes, who’s known for his ability to throw a football 80 yards or more.

Even before Allen participated in the Senior Bowl in January, ESPN analyst Mel Kiper Jr. predicted the Browns would draft him at No. 1. Kiper has maintained his stance, even though Allen’s career completion percentage of 56.2 at Wyoming has fueled skepticism about him becoming the top selection.

“He’s a great kid. He takes to coaching, and he’s got super-elite, rare talent in terms of size, arm strength, athleticism,” Kiper said Wednesday during a conference call. “All that working together, if you coach him properly, he could be spectacular. I’ve compared him to Matthew Stafford, Brett Favre.

“Remember, Stafford had his critics, too, because he was only 57 percent coming out of Georgia. People said, ‘He should be a second-round pick. He’s a thrower, not a pitcher.’ I heard the same things about Matthew Stafford when he went No. 1 [in 2009 to the Detroit Lions], and he should’ve gone No. 1. He’s had a heck of a pro career, and he’s been at 66 percent the last three years in the NFL.”

Allen has worked with private quarterback coach Jordan Palmer in an attempt to correct poor footwork that led to most of his accuracy issues in college. He showed improvement at the NFL Scouting Combine and Wyoming’s pro day, but the real challenge will come in games, when it’s not nearly as easy for quarterbacks to avoid reverting to bad habits.

“The ball does spray on him at times,” Savage said. “But if you’re forecasting what these guys are going to look like in 2019 or 2020, then, to me, he may in fact have the most upside.”

Thank God he isn't running our draft anymore! I'd say the actual performance record of Phil Savage should speak volumes in regards to his opinion.

You took the words right out of mt mouth Pit.

Allen would be worse then. the BQ pick, with similar results imo.

At the end of the interview they cut the mic off but I could hear in my mind Phil saying I see everything in him that I loved in Jamarcus 'russell, We almost had Russell but the Raiders backed out,

Listening to the Dorsey Presser as I type.
He of course didn't give anything away. But he did stress the variable of Accuracy regarding what you look for in your evaluations of the QB to pick. If that statement is true then he has to eliminate Allen from his board.

If we do take Allen, I will again have to say that Dorsey is very suspect as an evaluator. Now all the things I read/hear regarding US taking Allen it is only for the fact that he will sit a year or two due to TT being here. So that we have the opportunity to teach him how to be a QB and he has the highest upside. That is poppy [censored]...the time we have with the QB before we actually need him to start is not relevant. Bottom line and these are Dorsey's words.
"Bottom line you want a QB who knows how to win."
"When all is said and done, trust your eyes and watch the film."

I will be shocked if Allen goes before Darnold, Mayfield or Rosen. I think he is the perfect pick for Denver and John Elway.

jmho

Unless Dorsey just has true tunnel vision for Allen, the pick is gonna be Darnold. You go to a consensus and I think Darnold is gonna be everyone's 1 or 2 QB when they sit down, I think there will be folks in that room that sees Allen as the 5th or 6th QB. '

I see Dorsey with 3 QBs options and Mayfield's size and Rosen's injuries propell Darnold to that #1.

I like what he said there with, (in the end conclusion) you have to trust your eyes...

You can only do this based on your experience, so yes all of the new aged analytics are a great added resources to your team, but end the end...you have to trust your eyes...and Oh BTW...does he have small hands when it comes to a QB.

Both of theses examples are what many coming up in the new age mindset, concidered of a mythological nature.

7 Days and counting down.

In a bit of an oddity, the only other QB option available & worthy at that (Quinn) pick is now with the Browns: Drew Stanton.

Also, the very next pick after that has also spent time here - and also flamed out. Dwayne Bowe.

7 days can't get here fast enough.

btw, I guess we can't quote the bible on this board something about the C...crowing 3 times as Peter denies Jesus.

I used the word not in a swear actually its a reference to a term used as in GOSH DARN...you know a choir boy term.

Poppy... hope I don't get banned for it...lol

Back to Allen I like the way they usually reserve the BIG RISK for the Browns. What does scare me is the fact they are stating that the Giants will take Barkley if we take Darnold.
I do so wish for him to be there at #4. The kid could change our O like no other.

I guess my wish would be us taking Mayfield so that the Giants DO TAKE Darnold and then Jets get Rosen (although I've see some guys now say Allen for them too???)

7 Days...I got to fall asleep for 6 days then! Induced Coma anyone...lol

One of the traits Dorsey mentioned is accuracy. Allen is not an accurate QB. His ball placement is poor. I don't see how accuracy = Allen.

In referring to something Rosen said, I once posted the several characters stringed together to followed by "Trump". To quote what he said about Trump, and I got banned for masked profanity. And yes, technically it was masked profanity, but wasn't directed at anyone and I was just quoting Rosen while not dropping the curse bomb. I thought it was funny that I got banned for a day. Like, couldn't the refs have used some discretion on that one and determined that I wasn't masking profanity towards a user?

Weird.

Why I brought it up cause it came up (censored) as in an algarythem put in to automatically censor it and I can only assume it comes up to a red flag to the refs. When I stated a 6 day Coma I didn't mean a 6 day ban

That is a bit of an oddity.

It seems even longer ago in the past at least in my mind ... lol

Dead bones are meant to stay buried.

he talks about allen at the beginning.

Agreed. Accuracy is so important for QBs and it's so hard to fix that it just wouldn't make sense for Allen to be the pick.

I actually think Allen is an intriguing prospect. I like the arm, the intelligence, everybody agrees he's a great kid. It would just be crazy to take him when Sam Darnold (and also Rosen/Mayfield) are on the board. Let someone else take the risk. At a certain point it would be worth it.