Sorry guys, I was at the game and missed the discussion.

What I wanted to see was a running game and first team dominance. I saw both. After the first teams came out, the second teams didn't look as sharp, in fact they looked rather lost. I will have to watch the game on TV to look at details.

I don't really have any other than I love both of our QBs (you know the ones) ability to move in the pocket. Good stuff.

Also, A.J. McCarron broke his collarbone. This was probably his only shot at starting and it's gone. The Bills will be very bad with Peterman or Allen starting.

I thought Joel Bitonio looked like a left tackle and not a left guard playing left tackle. I also thought PaulChris Hubbard played well. I think our offensive line can be a strength when Zeitler comes back.

The first team defense was very good. There are a few guys who we can't afford to lose (Garrett, Ogbah, Kendricks, Ward, Randall, and Ogunjobi come to mind) and if they stay healthy the defense should be very good.

Yeah, I've been very impressed with our defense so far. Outside of that big gain by Barkley on the first play of week one, they've been nearly lights out. Our first team D anyway.

I think the game plan this week was to focus on the short game. We did much better than last week, especially on that first drive, where we didn't even see a third down. After that though, we seemed to sputter a bit on Offense.

Baker looked more like a rookie this week than last, but he still did some good things. You could see exactly why he needs to sit and learn for awhile. Let the game come to him and slow down for him, so that he doesn't need to sit in the pocket for 5 seconds. He still looked very poised and did a lot of things right.

Chris Hubbard played well also.

Oh no!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Hubbard

I actually had hopes for him to be a useful receiver.

keeping things in perspective. the Bills are the worst team in the AFC.
any team that trades for Corey Coleman or drafts Corey Coleman is god awful.
yep the Browns defense lookex stout tonight.
but consider the team it beat.
its oline lost its best olineman this year.
their qb room is a career backup and 2 guys fresh out of college.

the Browns ran the ball vs a 64 yr old Kyle Williams and a defense lacking difference makers.
Hyde ran with a purpose.
Chubb had holes and took advantage of it.

shame on Haley for being very uninspiring on offense.
one end around by Calloway.
the WRs ran the same 5 routes tonight

Drango is really pathetic. he allowed a sack and couple pressures tonight

Garrett just man handled Dawkins. they will miss Glenn big time
very unexciting game

It was a pretty "blah" game from an offensive standpoint

- It was nice to see the run game work early
- Chubb looked a little better, which is nice
- Jeff Janis probably got himself axed
- Our STs are an atrocity, which is about what they've been
- Landry had a great block on the TD run ... but nothing else
- Hyde is our best back ... he looks quick
- Tyrod underwhelmed ... you can see why Bills fans say he's "just alright"
- Baker is fun to watch ... he makes progressions, is great in the pocket, accurate, etc
- Orson Charles got himself axed
- Bitonio is our best option at LT
- Shon Coleman is our worst option anywhere
- Jamie Collins MAY be a surprise cut ... he's a disappointment
- Kendricks is a great pickup IMO
- Ogunjobi had a nice night
- The refereeing was atrocious ... literally cost us the game
- The Bills will be a bad team; one of the few teams we should beat this year on paper

- We gotta figure out the Ref situation.

This isn't just "one guy complaining" as people usually think. Even the announcers kept calling penalties "phantom".

I don't even mean just against us, the Bills got some weird calls too. No way I'm gonna be able to watch a full NFL season if the games are so arbitrary. I hope Haslam lobbies hard for fairness.

- Hyde, Chubb and Johnson all looked great.
- First team O-line looked good, 2nd team O-line looked atrocious.
- Tyrod seems to be as advertised. Overly safe, elusive in the pocket.
- Baker's accuracy is next level. Excited to see him tear it up next year.
- Higgins looks to be a serviceable possession guy.
- Njoku is a tank (look at his mid section it's like a bowling ball of muscle).

The refs were horrendous; to me, they were about a 10-14 point swing in the outcome of the game. Yes, it's preseason, but in two weeks it won't be

Myles Garrett broke AJ's collarbone on his sack.
Clean hit, bad landing.
Then as Jamie Meder was pushed into them MG actually shielded AJ or the injury could have been a lot worse.
If MG stays healthy he will be a Beast to be reckoned w/.
First Team D looked very nice.
I only saw the first half but it was obvious we were working on the short game.
Hyde looked very good and Chub looked like what we were drafting.

Game will be replayed on NFL NETWORK Sunday August 19th at 10 AM.

Thats what happens when u make rules that are virtually impossible to enforce ...

Not the refs fault this time ...

Chubb’s VERY SLOW ... no quickness what so ever ... no burst at all ... Dayes is better than him ...

His feet are very good ... just slow as hell ... no quicks at all ...

Josh Allen is the guy we should have drafted #1 overall. He throws the ball with so much more force than Mayfield.

Secondary fall off to surrender a late lead. Our running didn't sparkle, but we scored. Like Hyde a good deal. Our one's looked pretty solid. Defense was watchable.

Looking for some breakdown of offensive line play. Smaller TV's at our new bar.

I wondered what Drango did. I saw pressures, thought they were over him, but I wasn't sure.

They flushed us pretty regularly for Mayfield, which I was hoping for better honestly.

I'm happy with Mayfield. He throws the ball just as forcefully as Allen.

Some thoughts:
Our 1st teamers outplayed their 1st teamers.
Running game was better.
Too may penalties but I think all teams are going to have problems with penalties because of the new rules.
Chubb played better.

I agree on the weird tackling rules but the calls that cost us points were actually a facemask that didn't happen and a fumble that was blown dead for no reason. Both of those have been around, the refs should've known better.

Why you can't challenge penalties baffles me. Seems like obvious control move, but people get mad if I point that out :-P

we have talked about the lack of depth on the OL & DL at length , and it was exposed for all to witness.. Not to sure about the play calling in the second quarter ?? We ( all teams ) are going to have games decided by the Refs this season .. Fans will be outrage by mid-season ..

The execution by the first team OL gave my reason to breath better ..lol.. I believe our Running backs will be a nice piece to the puzzle . first team D was a force , and that was with out Coley on the field ..

I hope Taylor steps up or we will have one big Ass QB situation in short order .. Orchard is fast but has no body control .. Yea , Football is back ; ya but its only Pre Season Football ..lol

Did you watch?

Obviously we worked the Run game all week and it showed.

Now we'll put it all together for Philly Thursday.

Defense has been MAJORLY upgraded. And what you saw was straight up defense. Nothing even fancy.

We're going to eat Sudfeld alive Thursday.

Jamie Collins better watch out. Kendricks and Avery are for real.

Boats fired up and ready to pick up the next load!

I agree, that was clearly a fumble. The play was blown dead by the quickest whistle in preseason history!

Ya I watched ... good and bad ... just like all games ... well DUH .. sometimes were all dumb asses ... *L* ...

My takeaways other than Chubb running like he had a piano on his back ...

It was nice to see us plan on doing something (run the ball) and go out and execute ... first drive could have been a 3 or 4 or 5 and out ... instead we ran it right down the field ...

That was real nice to see ... its one thing to plan it ... its another thing to execute it the way we did ...

Our 1st team D shut them down ... that means very little to me as there O is going to be the worst in football this year ...

9/9 can’t get here soon enough ...

I’m actually glad the 1st team O didn’t score another TD ... not sure we have the ferries to accommodate the flood of dawgs coming over if we did ...

Didn’t see witch ref made the call on the face mask ... wa s more than likely the angle ... he saw Nassib’s hand up around the face mask and Allens head jerked like it was a face mask ...

Ref ASSumed it was a face mask ... the very first thing your taught as a ref once u get on the field is to not call anythng u DON’T SEE ... if u DON’T SEE IT ... don’t ASSume ... thats what he did ... at least that would be whats happend in my experiences ...

Refs are human also ... and QUICK is usually the culprit ... QUICK whistle ... QUICK judgement ...

I didn’t see the fumble .... i quit watching the D at halftime ... only watched Baker after that ... so i can’t take an educated guess on that one ..

The three offensive pass interference galls will get some air time this week I'm sure .

I thought the same thing about Chubbs, so far? He starts off running too slowly.

He did have a much better game this time around, obviously.

Chubb seems like a dancer. He tries to bust it outside but is to slow.

Only watched sporadically but it looks like we were finally able to defense the screen pass but still can't run a successful screen.

There was no face mask call. The announcers on TV thought it was Nassib but when you listened to the ref, it was a hands-to-the-face call on Avery, who was right behind Nassib. It was the right call, he had the RT's head pushed way back while Nassib made the tackle with his hands on upper part of the QB's shirt.

If we suffer any injury of consequences on offensive or defensive lines, we are in trouble. There is zero depth there.

Otherwise, I thought we looked good on 1st teams. The linebackers and secondary looks very good. Ward, Kindred, Kendricks and Avery on particular impressed me quite a bit.

I didnt see a slow Nick Chubb. Thought he looked much quicker in both his cuts and his runs.

Thought we saw the real Tyrod and Stanton. Stanton you suck and shouldnt even make the team. Tyrod is better but he just leaves to many plays on the field. Our D looks like a true playoff caliber D.

The Bills knew we were gonna run it and we ran over them. We ran through them and we ran by them. First team OL was beasting.

Thought Baker moved about as well within the pocket as any QB i have seen. to many holes in his OL for him to get comfortable. I thought he played pretty good. He needs that trust guy, which he had in Higgins last week. Gonna be hard to keep him on the pines but he still has a long way to go.

Run the ball and play good defense and we will win a lot of games this year. Passing is just gonna be up and down with some really frsutrating downs.

the Bills are a poor barometer for this defense.
the real test is Steelers week 1.
if the Browns defense can hold the Steelers to under 20 pts thats impressive
Bills have the worst team in the AFC.
they are rebuilding.

Nate Orchard is not a good player.

First team run game and OL was clicking a lot better. Nice seeing Hyde busting it up a little, he's incredibly power both lower and upper body.

Stanton looked horrible.

They kept their o-line starters in for Josh against our #2's.

Baker seems limited in weapons with the #2 and beyond string players. Another display of good pocket presence.

Garrett looks good man. Can't wait to see him in regular season. Myles looking to have a good year.

Joel looks good at LT what plays I keyed on him again.

Todd was probably calling plays to test players, gain info/judgement on his players but the play calling was horrid there. Again, preseason though.

Oh, and Jamie Collins was running a lot with the #2's. Did Kendricks overtake his spot? Is he still healing up/being cautious? IDK, but it was shocking to see him and no other first string D out there. IDK if he even had snaps with the first stringers.

If I am not mistaken Williams through a bunch of ones back on the field for the Goal line stance .. Didn't work .. Watch Orchard over run the play ( again )

Ogunjobi had a sack, but it was Garrett that forced the QB into Larry. Garrett, for the time he was in, looked beastly.

For goal line, yes. I recall Kendricks out there. But the non-goal line, I don't recall any #1 outside Jamie.

Makes me feel like Jamie could be traded or something.

Obviously this game was all about running the ball.

Haley wanted to know could we impose our will on another team?

Could we establish "push" from the OL.

Mission accomplished.
=========================================

Defense first string was dominant. The Bills got one first down.

The rest of the game was about evaluating personnel and units.

I thought given the tone of the game and personnel groups that he played with: Mayfield did fine.

Taylor was not asked to do much so not much can be said regarding his performance.
=========================================

Next week is the dress rehearsal. The first half against the current champs should give us a decent view of the state of the team.

I just wanted to mention that we are currently down quite a few DL, who sat out injured. (Coley, Brantley, Frazier, Ekuale, and Lenny Jones have all been hurt recently, and I don't know that any of them played yesterday)

Browns’ defensive snap counts, stats, and PFF notes: Preseason Week 2
The Browns’ defensive line shows up early.

By Chris Pokorny@DawgsByNature Aug 18, 2018, 11:40am EDT

Below, we analyze the snap counts and stats on defense for the Cleveland Browns’ Week 2 preseason game against the Buffalo Bills.

Defensive Line
Pos Player Plays % Stats
DL Zaycoven Henderson 45 63% 2 tackles (2 combined). 1 TFL.
DL Chris Smith 43 46% 1 tackle (1 combined). 1 TFL.
DL Nate Orchard 42 59% 1 tackle, 2 assists (3 combined).
DL Chad Thomas 30 42% 1 tackle (1 combined).
DL Jeremy Faulk 27 38% 2 tackles, 1 assist (3 combined).
DL Lenny Jones 24 34% No stats registered.
DL Carl Nassib 15 21% 2 tackles, 1 assist (3 combined).
DL Larry Ogunjobi 15 21% 2 tackles (2 combined). 1 sack, 2 TFL, 1 QH.
DL Emmanuel Ogbah 14 20% No stats registered.
DL Myles Garrett 14 20% 1 QH.
DL Jamie Meder 7 10% No stats registered.
The Browns’ defensive line made their mark early, forcing stops against the run and disrupting the passing game.
Larry Ogunjobi was a machine in particular, logging a sack and having another tackle for a loss on a running play.
Myles Garrett and Emmanuel Ogbah didn’t combine for any tackles, but Garrett had a hit on A.J. McCarron that was nearly a fumble as he was passing the ball. Per PFF, “Beyond Garrett, the Browns struggled to create pressure without blitzing.”
Rookie Chad Thomas made his debut and played 42% of the snaps.

Linebacker
Pos Player Plays % Stats
LB Justin Currie 43 61% 1 tackle, 2 assists (3 combined). 0.5 sack, 1 QH, 1 FF.
LB James Burgess 23 32% 3 tackles, 2 assist (5 combined). 0.5 sack, 1 TFL, 1 QH.
LB Genard Avery 22 31% 1 tackle, 1 assist (2 combined).
LB Jamie Collins 21 30% 4 assists (4 combined).
LB Mychal Kendricks 20 28% 1 tackle, 2 assists (3 combined). 1 TFL.
LB B.J. Bello 15 21% 1 tackle, 1 assist (2 combined).
LB Joe Schobert 14 20% 1 tackle (1 combined).
LB Brady Sheldon 12 17% 3 assists (3 combined).
LB Christian Kirksey 8 11% No stats registered.
LB Jermaine Grace 7 10% 2 tackles, 1 assist (3 combined).
A running trend on defense this week seemed to be to give extra playing time to guys who had been injured in Week 1. In this case, I’m referring to both Justin Currie and rookie Genard Avery, who were among the top three in snaps at the position after not playing last week.

Cornerback
Pos Player Plays % Stats
CB E.J. Gaines 29 41% 1 assist (1 combined).
CB T.J. Carrie 28 39% 1 tackle, 2 assists (3 combined).
CB Denzel Rice 26 37% No stats registered.
CB Briean Boddy-Calhoun 23 32% 1 tackle, 1 assist (2 combined). 1 pass defended.
CB Mike Jordan 19 27% 3 tackles (3 combined). 1 pass defended.
CB Denzel Ward 14 20% 1 tackle (1 combined).
CB Terrance Mitchell 13 18% 1 tackle (1 combined).
CB Jeremiah McKinnon 12 17% 1 tackle (1 combined).
Briean Boddy-Calhoun was in the game early, so hopefully that is a sign that he is in the plans for the defense in 2018.
The starting cornerbacks were Denzel Ward and Terrance Mitchell, and they didn’t allow anything against A.J. McCarron and the Bills’ first-team offense.
Safety
Pos Player Plays % Stats
S Simeon Thomas 32 45% 1 assist (1 combined).
S Elijah Campbell 24 34% No stats registered.
S Derrick Kindred 21 30% 1 tackle, 1 assist (2 combined). 1 sack, 1 TFL, 1 QH.
S Micah Hannemann 21 30% 2 tackles, 1 assist (3 combined).
S Derron Smith 18 25% 1 tackle (1 combined).
S Jabrill Peppers 16 23% No stats registered.
S Damarious Randall 14 20% 1 tackle (1 combined).
S Tigie Sankoh 11 15% 1 tackle (1 combined).
S Christian Boutte 9 13% 2 tackles, 1 assist (3 combined).
Rookie Simeon Thomas led the way in snaps.

https://www.dawgsbynature.com/2018/8/18/...reseason-week-2

Browns’ offensive snap counts, stats, and PFF notes: Preseason Week 2
The passing game went dead, but the running game was more alive than ever.

By Chris Pokorny@DawgsByNature Aug 18, 2018, 11:07am EDT


Below, we analyze the snap counts and stats on offense for the Cleveland Browns’ Week 2 preseason game against the Buffalo Bills.

Quarterback
Pos Player Plays % Stats
QB Baker Mayfield 32 55% 7-of-13 for 75 yards. 4 carries, 9 yards.
QB Tyrod Taylor 24 39% 4-of-7 for 22 yards. 1 carry, 5 yards.
QB Drew Stanton 6 10% 0-of-4 for 0 yards.

Unlike the first preseason game, the preseason home opener against Buffalo wasn’t a banner day for the quarterbacks, despite a strong running game to work with. One thing I like to think about in the preseason, though, is “what did we try and repeatedly fail at in this game, so we know to work on in better in the coming week?
Last week, it was the running game that needed work. This week, it was the timing and blocking of wide receiver screen passes, which led to several penalties that assisted in killing drive. Baker Mayfield had a touchdown pass taken off the board.
Drew Stanton got a little bit of work at the end of the game, but could not complete a pass in four attempts.
PFF says “Taylor didn’t really test any throws downfield, while Mayfield had a decent outing as he protected the ball and made a few nice plays with both his arm and his feet.”

Running Back
Pos Player Plays % Stats
RB Nick Chubb 30 48% 11 carries, 53 yards (4.8 YPC). 1 TD. 2 catches, 0 yards (2 targets).
RB Carlos Hyde 16 26% 9 carries, 64 yards (7.1 YPC). 1 D. 1 catch, -5 yards (1 target).
RB Matthew Dayes 8 13% 2 carries, 3 yards (1.5 YPC). 0 catches (1 target).
RB Duke Johnson 8 13% 4 carries, 27 yards (6.8 YPC).

Now that is more like it!
All three of the Browns’ top running backs averaged 4.8 yards per carry. I predicted a heavy emphasis on Carlos Hyde this week, and that is what we saw: 9 carries for 64 yards. He and rookie Nick Chubb had a touchdown.
Duke Johnson nearly had his own touchdown on a nifty run, but was tripped up by the turf monster. Cleveland is hiding their usage of him as a receiver at the moment.

Wide Receiver
Pos Player Plays % Stats
WR Damion Ratley 34 55% 2 catches, 18 yards (2 targets).
WR Da'Mari Scott 29 47% 2 catches, 31 yards (2 targets).
WR Derrick Willies 24 39% 0 catches (3 targets).
WR Antonio Callaway 23 37% 1 carry, 3 yards (3.0 YPC).
WR Jarvis Landry 23 37% 0 catches (1 target).
WR Rashard Higgins 21 34% 2 catches, 20 yards (3 targets).
WR Jeff Janis 11 18% 0 catches (4 targets).
WR C.J. Board 3 5% 0 catches (1 target).

Considering Tyrod Taylor only connected on 4 passes, it is no surprise that Jarvis Landry went without a catch despite playing 23 snaps.
Overall, it was an uneventful day for the receivers. I like how Rashard Higgins seems to have a good knack for being in the right spot just as the quarterback’s clock is ticking down. Antonio Callaway’s lone touch came on a reverse.
After not playing last week, Jeff Janis played 11 snaps. He was targeted 4 times, but did not catch a pass. His stock is dropping a bit.

Tight End
Pos Player Plays % Stats
TE David Njoku 26 42% 0 catches (1 target).
TE Orson Charles 22 35% 0 catches (1 target).
TE Devon Cajuste 19 31% 1 catch, 26 yards (1 target).
TE Darren Fells 12 19% 1 catch, 7 yards (1 target).
Much like the receivers, it was an uneventful evening for the tight ends. Darren Fells had a catch near the goal line to set up Cleveland’s first score. Hard Knocks hero Devon Cajuste had the longest catch of the day for the Browns at 26 yards.

Offensive Line
Pos Player Plays % Stats
OL Austin Corbett 62 100%
OL Spencer Drango 62 100%
OL Shon Coleman 38 61%
OL Austin Reiter 38 61%
OL Joel Bitonio 24 39%
OL Chris Hubbard 24 39%
OL J.C. Tretter 24 39%
OL Desmond Harrison 22 35%
OL Greg Robinson 16 26%
OL Christian DiLauro 1 2%

The Browns’ offensive line allowed 2 sacks.
Spencer Drango and Austin Corbett played the entire game.

https://www.dawgsbynature.com/2018/8/18/...reseason-week-2

Orchard was really bad last night

I laughed out loud on this one. I actually know Paul Hubbard. We used to work together. He's a Cop in Colorado Springs now.

And here I thought Paul Hubbard was a blast from the past

I'm glad you're still lurking on here.

I thought the Browns looked a lot closer to going 0-16 again than they did look like a team that is closer to going 8-8 this year.

I think Chubb got the ball too often, and Dayes not enough.

I don't know how Hue Jackson, or Anybody can say Drew Stanton should be the #2 Qb ahead of whomever, after this.

Stanton is a seasoned Vet; He went 0 for 4 in the 4th quarter of "preseason game #2 when trailing.
^ Say that out loud.

If this team is 0-16 again I don't know what I'm gonna do.

dont understand people saying the Browns have a "playoff calibur" defense
can someone explain that term to me
and its relevant to 2018.
I thought it more imperative to have "playoff calibur" offense

Offense is more important than defense in 2018. That doesn't mean having a good defense is bad.

Stanton playing with guys likely to be cut in two weeks proves he is a bad QB. How about his winning record as a NFL QB? Guess that means nothing.


Not saying he is a great QB, but to judge him from a 4th quarter of a preseason game is asinine.

At least you know (Vince Young's career record is 31-19, he literally couldn't get a job. Stanton's record is padded, he's 11-6 as a starter, because he played in short stints on very good Cardinal teams.

Drew Stanton has a 52.4% completion rate for his career. He's a poor man's Josh McCown. He is on the team to mentor Baker Mayfield.

Not sure how you saw what you described?

Maybe you could explain.

It was clear they wanted to run the ball. They accomplished that convincingly.

The Browns first string defense dominated the Bills first string offense.

Aside from that it was nondescript.

I just didn't anything resembling an 0-16 team.

Running game was good.

Defense was hard to acccess, since most probably Bills were testing the passing game.

That was it for me.

No one standing out.... and we badly need for players to stand out.

It's the preseason. It's supposed to be uninspiring. For the most part, we are lining up, giving the defense a good hint as to what we're doing, and then seeing if we can execute anyway.

Cowherd was tweeting that the Browns running on 3rd and 10 might be a sign that they are "protecting Mayfield"...

It's the 2nd game of preseason, the Browns have a ton of new/young pieces including a new OC.. I know it's hard to believe, but they could have been trying things or looking at any of a number of things that have NOTHING to do with Mayfield on that play... not every play is designed to test or protect Baker Mayfield, they have a lot of other things to look at.

Cowherd just throws stuff out there to get a rise.

He is clueless about really takes place inside football.

This game was Haley's plan. It was so obvious what he was trying to accomplish.

He wanted the OL to prove that they could move people off the line. He wanted the runners and OL to work together. He ran on passing downs for a reason and it had nothing to do with Mayfield.

The offensive plan was to establish a run game period.

The next game you will see more of a true game plan in the first half. A balance in run/pass.

Haven't read the thread yet, so apologies if these points are redundant...

If this is the sort of game that Tyrod plays a good percentage of the time, I will completely understand why Buffalo wanted to move on. However, for us, I am very pleased. With him in place leading our offense, we're not going to put up 35/game, but going to win several. If Baker is to see the field before December, it will be up to him to really rise above. That's how it really should be, right?

Hyde and Duke are very capable, providing our line comes together and does their job. It's too bad that Zeitler is out for so much of the preseason...between Drango and the rookie, Tretter hasn't been as solid...weird that we've gone from a solid interior line with questions on the outside to solid tackles with a questionable interior.

I know a lot of people are high on our backers, but it is Kendricks that keeps actually making plays. The other guys have been ok, but just kinda there, IMO. From various reports, Schobert is super-intelligent and doing well at running the D calls, so I guess that is valuable. I expected more from Kirko and Collins, though. Ian Rapoport mentioned at one point that Dorsey may not be done with trades. I blew it off at the time I heard it, but could Collins be shipped out for a player or pick? Not advocating, necessarily, just wondering. Also, Avery might be a real find.

I got almost nothing from Baker's time on Friday. Protection was garbage, pass-catchers seemed to struggle to get open. If the plan is to continue to run Baker out with the entire 2nd string, I'd rather they skip him and go right from Tyrod to Brogan next week (nobody wants to see Stanton out there either, right?). If it were me, I'd play Baker with the 1's coming of the halftime for a series or two, provided the starters put up some points in the first half. If the offense really had struggled, I'd leave Tyrod in...don't want to start a controversy.

This is nit-picky, and could be all in my head, but even though Garrett was affecting the Bills quite a bit, he never seems to get all the way home. It's almost like his speed and athleticism take him into AND out of the play. Am I crazy for thinking this?

my friends who like Buffalo are saying FRI night is exactly why they don't want him: he's as vanilla as it gets ... never throws down field, dumps off too much, weaker arm ... he literally will not take a chance.

It won't win us anything of consequence, but it's an upgrade for us

We are not a deep football team.

You know who has a arm like Allen, Kizer.... How did tht turn out?

Mayfield throws the football 60mph which was clocked at the combine. Allen threw it 62mph. Mayfield arm is fine.

Would you rather a guy throw the ball 60mph and complete 65% of his passes or a guy throw it 62 mph and complete 55%? Asking for a friend....

Mayfield has to step it up a lot, both on the throws and completion %, and stop moving like a scared hamster, all plays its like he is running for his life.

So far I've seen BM arm like Colt Mccoy... good enough to have the job done , but I still have to see him throw a good one...

Also that is a good thing when you draft a QB because of the arm , Kizer and Allen already displayed the arm by game 2, while in the case of BM, we still have to see why did we draft him first.

For sure its not decision making, because he's taking a lot of time to get rid of the ball...

so you completely dodge the fact he has the second best arm in football coming out draft, and was by far the most accurate...gotcha.

seems to me we have a troll on our hands, nothing more, nothing less.

2nd best arm? Who Baker?

You are kidding right. BM has hardly better arm than Colt McCoy...

Just take a look at the 2 game highlights from Rosen, Darnold and Allen, or any other QB so far...

Maybe we are hiding is arm...

And so far his completion % has been on the 50's, and that's why I have been bitching about....

I want to see him moving the chains, not running around like an hamster

I already provided the links to you showing you that he was clocked at the combine at 60mph. If for some reason you have failed to learn how to read, that is on you.

Take yourself somewhere else, troll. you are not wanted here.

I couldn't possibly disagree more. Colt could never make a throw on the run like the one to Callaway on the sidelines was. Even if Colt could, there'd be no accuracy in it.

JMO of course

Baker has always reminded me of Colt.. but definitely with a stronger arm.

Oz called, your brain is ready for pickup, Scarecrow.