https://www.yahoo.com/beauty/14-women-were-brutally-attacked-140600254.html?nhp=1

Pretty pathetic. And this has been an ongoing problem that yes, people just don't wanna talk about.

I hate when ya act like a woman is obligated to speak to them. If she says no, or just walks away, then keep it moving.

Whats to talk about? We have mentally ill people in our society?

We have all come to this conclusion long ago.

The question is how do we protect ourselves from these people?

You chalked this up to mental illness?

"You don't love me so I must kill you."

Yea, Nuts.

I'd chalk it up to poor parenting.

That's also what I thought. Most of the time, when dudes act like this, they learned it from somewhere.

I'm pretty sure people are talking about it. Maybe not these 14 cases specifically but there is an on-going national discussion about violence against women, date rape, rape, and domestic violence.

I would have to ask because I don't know... are statistics up for this kind of violence against women? I mean, it's deplorable, it's always been deplorable, but if statistics aren't above what people are used to, it's not going to get any more attention than it normally does.

As for why it's happening, I guess on some level it's always happened.. if statistics are up, I would look to one thing for the cause... Porn. I read a study a while back about how porn is skewing men's view of women.. they have these "scenes" a woman on the street or in the mall or at the grocery store, gets "picked up" by a guy in about 2 minutes, goes home and has sex with one or more guys whom she has never met. Dude it's all over the internet. It's not hard to imagine how somebody with poor social skills and a weak mind, who sits and watches this stuff for hours at a time could be led to believe that this is real.... that women walking down the street are just waiting for a guy to ask so they can go home and have sex with them. So the loser builds up the courage to ask, get's shot down, and reacts violently... because hell, everybody else is getting it.

Again, poor parenting. If you raise stupid children that have no social skills, it's due to poor parenting.

I'd argue it's been going on for centuries, if not thousands of years. What's different now is that women feel comfortable to speak out against it.

Look at dominant society. Who has been in power? Men. Men make the rules, determine waht's acceptable, etc. Now we're becoming a more diverse global society with women leaders, rulers, and agents of change.

Much now gets brought to light about what's been going on.

'A husband should beat his wife so long as it does not make her ugly': Palestinian leader gives horrific advice for dealing with a rocky marriage.
Hassan al-Laham, mufti of Gaza, was speaking on Palestinian Authority TV

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-...y-marriage.html

ok, thats terrible, but we know the middle east is trash.

we're talking about america, 40. try staying in the country instead of trying to make comparison.

Oh, you didn't say "Only in America" in your original post.
I thought this Thread was about the abuse of women by men.

I read this also...and to ad one point..the porn is also getting more violent in nature...more aggressive..spitting in the woman's face fake rape ect..and it has to have some kind of impact with the amount of people watching massive amounts of it....also in the same article it talked about men having problems with achieving their happy ending and in extreme cases impotence with their spouse/partner

I have a very happy wife in this area and I'm glad Ive not needed porn since I was very young

Porn is to real sex as fried food/trans fat/sugary pop is to healthy food. They're poor substitutes and wreak havoc on the system in a variety of ways.

As for porn, everything DC and FBHO wrote is true about it being highly unrealistic and overly optimistic, etc. Much of it is also highly aggressive bordering on violent. Keep in mind that I'm talking about the mainstream stuff that is readily available to anyone on some of the highest bandwidth using sites on the internet.

Boys aren't learning about sex and women through their parents or health class or whatever. They learn about it through porn. Nearly all adolescent boys and young men watch it.

A lot of guys get absolutely wrecked on porn. It just isn't talked about due to the taboo nature of the subject. I personally stopped watching it a long time ago and as crazy as this sounds, I can pick out a heavy porn user from a mile away. There's this general creepiness, like my mind is flashing 'stay away from this person!', and there are more overt signs that can be picked up like general depression, apathy, lack of self-confidence etc. To anybody out there who thinks I'm crazy, quit yourself and you'll see that I speak the truth. If you don't trust my judgement, ask a female that you're close with. Women usually have a much better 'awareness' on this than men do.

Porn doesn't just rewire the expectations and nature of sex. It also has very negative consequences on the brain. The old-timers out there have to realize that porn today is different, for a variety of reasons:

1. As noted above, there is the unrealistic and often violent nature of it and increasingly so

2. There's so much of it that people can (and do) watch hundreds of different clips at a time, searching for the perfect shot, etc. and you could do this every day and only watch a tiny portion of the porn that's out there. This rewires a person's brain to seek out change, novelty, and excitement. Another thing to ask women is their experience with dating. The great majority have trouble finding men who will show any degree of commitment (even far less than historical norms)

Due to the type and amount of content and how this can all be streamed in real time in high-def with modern internet connections, porn has evolved into something that dramatically overloads the brain with stimuli. The brain just can't handle it. Well it can, but there are dire consequences for it. Porn studies of the past few years show this in depressing detail, from reduced brain size (yes, really), depression, sky-rocketing rates of E.D. in otherwise healthy young men, etc. Here's a good collection of some of the recent brain studies on porn users: http://yourbrainonporn.com/brain-scan-studies-porn-users

So take this reality that virtually all young men watch porn, some tolerate it fine but others handle it very poorly, that this mainstream porn is aggressive and sometimes violent, and that it leads to addiction-related brain changes that in and of itself lead to depression, inhibit the ability for logical thinking and emotional regulation etc. and yes porn is a huge factor in violence to women. It's not the only factor of course.

Wow that's interesting stuff haus. DC and FBH, I never really thought porn would have hat big of an effect

I'm glad you found it interesting. I don't make it a point to go out of my way to talk about porn as it's not something that comes up regularly in conversation, lol.

Everything I wrote about the status of porn is obviously true, the effects of porn are very much accurate, how exactly it affects the rates of violence toward women is more up for debate. Some of that latter bit is speculation/my interpretation although I have seen research that has supported it. I've also seen research that suggests porn use actually lowers rates of sexual assualt against women in a sort of counterintuitive way, maybe because heavy porn use has a way of making a man docile. Like the stimulus/dopamine rush is so great that everything else just seems kind of boring in comparison, almost like video games on steroids (again, just some speculation there on my part).

Uh, what is porn anyway?

Is that them half naked ladies you see thru a Stereoscope? Kinda 3D like?

Let's be honest, you can learn the health aspect from your parents or in school.. but most boys learned about sex in the backseat of a Chevy or in the basement when their parents went out to dinner. And there was a girl there, just as nervous, just as inexperienced, but you were able to learn IMMEDIATELY what was appropriate and what was not. Now these boys start watching porn at about age 9 or 10 and they think they know everything before their first actual experience.. and everything they think they know is based on lies.

I have a friend who is a psychiatrist and the addiction is very real and the unwanted effects from it are very real...

One of the big problems is that it creates feelings of inadequacy... the way porn clips are filmed, you are led to believe these sex scenes actually go on for hours... normal guys feel bad if they can't last forever.. the women are usually fairly well built with fake boobs so guys can't get aroused by their "normal" looking wife.. plus the guys are usually well endowed, well above what is average, so the guy feels inadequate... then there are the positions and the freaky things the women will do that most women won't.. so guys start feeling like either something is wrong with them or their wife is a "prude" because she won't do these things...

and you are right hasugopher... it's becoming ok to stand and admit to people at work or at church or in your neighborhood that you have a problem with alcohol and you are seeking help for it.. People will support you. You say you have an addiction to porn they will look at you like a pervert and refuse to let their daughters come to your house any more to play with your kids...

If you have an addiction to porn you should get mental help. It is considered an illness.

my question is...what was causing the harassment of women prior to porn?

because this isn't a new problem.

Men have had lust in their heart since the dawn of time (and violence for that matter).. most control it but some can't. I just think the number who can't is growing...

If you have time to kill read up on it, its a real problem...especially when they start watching very young...it does warp the reality of what intimacy is and what women want and how.

I thought it was kind of goofy at first...but man the more I read it is sound science behind this stuff. I found it fascinating...and Haus. article hits on it....The porn industry has changed its not your 1970's type stuff anymore.

Ted Bundy was started down his murderous path by porn. That guy raped and killed over 20 women. And that was in the 70's/80's.

What would qualify as a porn addiction? How much is too much? Is watching any amount acceptable? I don't really expect you to answer those questions. They're not rhetorical; they're just really hard to answer.

One thing that I found interesting is that one of the major porn sites regularly releases demographic and search data, and one of the striking facts was that bandwidth used from smart phones has overtaken bandwidth used from computers in the U.S with tablets being a distant third.

Think about that-- people are watching more porn on their phones than they are the computer. It's everywhere. I've had friends pull up videos at the bar, seen a stranger watching it in line at Chipotle, it's like people just have no shame anymore. Maybe we're looking at an addicted society.

I would think porn addiction becomes a problem needing treatment when:

1) It affects your relationship with others, such as your wife
2) It takes over your life to the point it hurts/prevents normal activities.
3) It becomes an obession that comsumes a large percentage of your time.

At that point you should receive some counceling.

I would agree that in all 3 cases, that would obviously be an addiction.

The thing is that sex drive is already very potent in men. None of us would be here if that weren't the case. Porn hijacks that to an extent and is actually far more stimulating than actual sex. That's might seem odd because it's such a poor substitute, but the sheer number of insanely sexualized women doing the most hardcore and freaky things (even just in video) just makes one normal looking woman doing normal things boring in comparison. That's the brain's primitive reward system in play there. It's hard for most men to just watch small amounts of relatively tame porn.

It almost always escalates in terms of amount watched or the intensity of the videos. The most popular/searched for genres makes this abundantly clear. My advice for men out there is to never watch it-- just completely eliminate it as a possibility from your life. Anybody who actually takes that advice can thank me sometime down the road.

Can't define it but I know it when I see it.

We are being desensitized to all kinds of thing in this society in which we live; sex, violence, lies, hatred .... and the list goes on .... but they all fall under one main heading: evil.

Young people are being more and more isolated, in that personal interaction is becoming more rare. Text messaging has overtaken verbal conversations. I almost laugh, until I realize how sad it is, to watch 2 young people, sitting across from one another, both texting away ...... one laughs ...... the other looks confused ..... then they get this "aha" look, and laugh ...... it is actually pretty scary.

Back to evil, though ...... We live in a fallen world. The Bible tells us that the world is under the rule of the evil one. For those of us who are Christians, the direction of the world should not surprise, us, even though it does grieve us.

Oh, and before anyone asks me ... I absolutely stand against abuse of anyone. I have had friends who were raped, or abused, and it is absolutely, 100%, completely wrong. Always.

The type of attacks in this article are just part of a much larger issue. It is horribly wrong for anyone to have to be concerned about whether or not saying "no" will put her life at risk.

I just know I am tired of all these women treating me as nothing more than a sex object. There is more to me than just being a boy toy for them

I don't think religion needs to be invoked here. Certainly nothing I've written in this thread has anything to do with religion, and I still think that good arguments necessarily can stand without invoking God and all that (I know you disagree with that; I'm just letting others know where I'm coming from).

With that said, I do agree with your overriding point about society going downhill and people being disassociated with each other. It's scary. I know a ton of people who either won't or can't put their phones down and it will only get worse as these phones keep getting better, and even moreso when virtual and augmented reality devices start taking off in coming years.

they are very hard to answer (and even harder to detect in others) because porn, unlike drugs, alcohol, violence, doesn't have the outward symptoms or the lingering effects.

You watch a couple hours of porn one night, you aren't late for work because you are hungover, you don't fail a drug test, you don't get arrested because somebody called the cops.. you just go through a lot of paper towels... and that's not a crime.

And Kimberly Clark thanks you for that.

I wonder if Disability will now cover a Porn addiction?

I believe that many of the issues in life today are the direct result of a loss of morality, and that loss of morality is the direct result of people turning away from God.

It's funny ..... I read the Bible, and much of the Old Testament tells the story of the Israelites, and the way they would turn away from God, only to bring disaster on themselves ..... and then in times of disaster, they would turn back to God.

I look at us today. Following 9/11, we rushed to churches, to find comfort in the face of senseless hatred.

That lasted maybe 2 months, and as we felt safe again, people turned away from God, and back to their everyday pursuits.

I look at how live in this country, and most are not concerned about providing for their families. Well, I shouldn't say that exactly, because they are ..... but their idea of providing for their families involves lots of stuff. Gotta have a house that, in my grandfather's generation, could have housed 3 families. Have to have 3 or 4 cars, so that no one has to share. Oh, we have to have the latest iPhone, and other technology. A 32 inch TV isn't enough, we "need" the 65 inch, and it has to be 3D. Stuff, stuff, stuff, stuff.

Beyond this, we have "entertainment" that puts all kinds of unrealistic images of life and relationships, (including porn, that even some church Pastors admit to watching) and we have people who spread the message of our right to be "happy", no matter the impact on others. We hear messages that imply, or outright state, that if we are not euphoric in our marriages, then get out and try someone else. In many ways, we are told to commit to nothing for life. (except maybe a political party)

Yes, I believe that having people attend churches that actually teach the Word of God, from the Word of God, would improve our society in many ways. Maybe people would think about things before they jump into bed with someone, and create children they cannot, or will not support or care for. Maybe people would think about "what do I need", as opposed to "what do I want, because everyone else has it". Maybe we would have people who are not concerned about "what we should have", and more thankful for the things we do have.

Yes, I believe that if we had more faith in God, and less pursuit of temporal gods; wealth, stuff, sex, and all of the other things the world tells us we have to have in order to be happy, then we would truly be happier. Yes, I believe that teaching the Word of God, from the Word of God, would benefit every single person in this country. I believe that this country has suffered in so many ways as we have moved away from God. You might put a different name on the cause, but I believe that the systematic elimination of God from everyday life is a major contributing factor, and in fact, the primary factor.

This is where what I wrote, "... good arguments necessarily can stand without invoking God..." comes into play.

I agree with a lot of what you say. I just don't think you have to go the religious route to do it. I have no interest in debating ambiguous passages written by men thousands of years ago that have been selectively chosen and often mistranslated through the years.

There is a lot of good, sound advice in the Bible. I will agree with that! The thing is that with many of those things, you can clearly articulate why something is good/bad in a completely analytical way. Don't rape or kill for instance-- it is easy to explain who is harmed and why those things cannot be tolerated in society. Using the Bible (or someone else's interpretation of it) as the sole guide on things without critical analysis can lead to some bizarre views on things, for example, being against stem cell research or against abortion even in cases of rape.

Religion is not the basis of morality. In fact, many of those most prosperous, lowest crime areas in the world are also the least religious (Western and Northern Europe, Northeast Asia) while many of the most hostile and dangerous areas of the world are highly religious. I'm not trying to imply religion is the sole cause of this as it's obviously not, but it sure doesn't seem to be helping.

I agree people buy too much stuff and with some of the other faults you write about as well. I just don't see loss of religion as being a major cause of that. I think the causes are more the result of many other things in today's society that I have written about in other threads. Porn is indeed one of them, but there's also a lot more to it than just that (a quick list off the top of my head: excessive playing of video games, binge watching TV shows, internet addiction, social media stuff, plummeting rates of physical exercise, addicting/highly-refined junk food, toxicity of environment and water/food supply, some political/social unrest perhaps and maybe even ineffectiveness of schools).

Look at it this way. I put forth what I think are some very strong arguments (based on empirical and neurological research) against porn that I personally think resonated with a lot of people. At the very least, a few people seem to agree with me and maybe I opened up some eyes to the negatives of that stuff. If somebody wants to debate me on this, I'm all for it, but it seems like I don't have any takers. Now if someone were to go in and try to shame porn users because 'God does not want you to watch it' or some such, I bet most people will not take that argument seriously. Quite honestly I don't want to conflate my perfectly good arguments with the religious angle because, in my opinion, that actually weakens the argument.

See, it's not about "religion" to me. It is about a personal relationship with God.

I believe that those who truly have a strong personal relationship with God are less likely to do some of these horrible things we see happening in the world today. Why? Because we know that these are not the things God wants for us. We do our best to obey God's Commandments, not because we "have to", but because we want to. It's the right thing to do, and more importantly, it is the right thing for us to do as Christians.

That is the difference. You see a shaming process, that tells us what we cannot do. What I see is a relationship with God, who showed ME so much love, that he sent Jesus Christ to suffer and die upon the cross, for MY sins. God tells me how to live, because it is the right way for me to live. He wants me to avoid sin, because that is what's best for me. He forgives my sins, because I cannot be atoned on my own.

I am not ashamed. The gospel of Jesus Christ brings salvation to everyone who believes. (Romans 1:16)

Man Id like to ask questions on this...but Im not sure if its worth it....I watched Geronimo today and he was arguing with Luptan sp? and he says the "One God" will accept him and isnt worried about Luptans Christian God.

I think thats where I'm at..the One God...though I do love the story/beliefs of Jesus...all the different sects of Christianity not so much.

"Christian churches" are all over the place, from Biblical churches to those who "act in the spirit" exclusively, without using the Bible at all. There are very few truly Christian churches in this country, IMHO. These churches who make decisions, not based on what the Bible says, but rather on public opinion, are not Christian, IMHO. God is the final Word on all things, not man. I eliminated the Lutheran Church, Presbyterian USA, Episcopal, and others because of their desire to put man's concerns above God's Law. I do not see God's Law as "suggestions".

I believe in the Bible, in God, and in Jesus Christ. Jesus said that he is the truth and the life, and that no man goes to the Father, except through Him. There is the romanticized image we have of some different people, and the faith they have in animals, rocks, the sun, rivers, and all other kinds of things as gods. It is somehow seen as serene. It better be, because, unfortunately, the only way to the Father is through the Son.

I think that there are so many churches today that are so worried about their financial futures, that they have decided that they will just try to attract everyone, So what if they never receive a Biblical message, and so what if they don't save people, they get the money rolling in. They are afraid to mention sin, and some never even do mention sin. It's like the Christian can have Christ within, and yet still live a life that is completely reflective of the unrepentant sinner. It just doesn't make any sense, and it is not what the Bible says. I believe that a Christian should do his best to obey God's Law ..... and that he will find himself living a life that more closely follows Christ's example if he does truly have Christ within. I think that someone who calls himself a Christian, yet does things that any reasonable person would know with just a cursory knowledge of the Bible, offend God, has to know that they are in trouble. I know that well. I was there. I had talked myself into believing that because I "believed in" Christ, that I was somehow able to go do anything and everything, in the most sinful ways, and be just fine. I now realize that I was never really saved. I was the hard path, where the seed of the Gospel fell, sprouted quickly when I was a kid, but once I got back home with my friends, it withered and died. Thank God, God decided to do so much to draw me back to Him.

Anyway, I don't know what happens to those who have never heard the Word of God. The Bible is not 100% clear on that. It does say that even those who have never heard the Gospel still have God's Law written on their hearts. I don't know if they will receive an opportunity to accept Christ at death, or how that works. I trust God to make the proper decision on that, however He decides. However, in this country, we don't even have that "cover". We have all heard the Word of God, at least at some point, and if we have rejected it, then we have rejected life.

I dont know how to respond to that...Ive studied different religions through my life...I'm probably mentally more in line with the Jesus view of things...the New Testament.

But IDK anymore...I believe in a higher power...and have struggled with what Jesus said and how to go to heaven. I am at the point where I try to do right by people...live as close as I can to the commandments...not because of Christianity but because I think its a good guide line.

And if I die and God says well FBHO71 youre going in the hell fire because I didnt believe in the bible 100% then so be it.

I try to be spiritual..have a personal relationship with God...but man I just cant pick one of the sects of religion and say yep thats the one and only way and everyone else is wrong...I just cant do it...and dont think it is set up the way it says in the bible either.

You do, I would never knock you for that...but Y-town its the way Ive been treated by people in the church that turned me away in the first place...so it will be what it is when I have to answer for my life...if thats even what happens.

I can understand the problem some have with various churches. I see a lot of churches that abuse their members. They set rules that have nothing to do with the Bible. Many are all over the place.

Fortunately, we have God's Word. His Word tells us exactly how to be saved, and how to live the life He has given us on this earth. I know that a lot of people love sin more than they love God, and I get that. Sin has a very strong allure.

I also understand your feelings that other religions should have some value. I have also studied many different religions, more when I was much younger, but 1 or 2 more recently. However, I believe the Bible above all else.

I think of it as a freeway, with hundreds of lanes. One lane goes to heaven, and all of the rest, unfortunately, go elsewhere. Jesus spoke of a wide gate and a narrow gate, where all kinds of people will rush through the wide gate, but only a few will go through the narrow gate. We all have the opportunity to make our own choices. God does not force us into a relationship with Him, and He does not force us to love Him, or choose Him. He desperately wants us to, but he will never force anyone to do so.

I have to wonder about what punishment will look like for the unrepentant sinner. We have the image of the parable of Lazarus and the rich man, and that implies that is probably where the idea of hell comes from. However, it appears that the man's sons are still living on earth while he is being punished, so that implies that he was not yet sentenced in final judgement.

Maybe that is like jail for a man awaiting arraignment? I don't know, and I have no desire to find out.

I did have a dream/daydream ..... I really don't know. However, I was pondering the topic, and I had this extremely real dream, of a man who was condemned to being cast out of the presence of God. The man considered it to be a good thing, because he wanted nothing to do with God, and so he was pleased, and figured he had beaten God. However, what the man never considered was that nothing exists outside of God, and so the man was cast out into nothing ...... no light ... no dark ..... no sound .... no voice .... no feeling .... no one for company ....... just absolutely nothing .... not even a voice with which to scream out in rage or horror.

This dream was absolutely horrifying. It was scarier, by a factor of ..... oh ...a million, than any other dream I have ever had. The sinner got what he wanted ... no more interference from God ..... but that came with a price ..... and that price was nothing. Absolute nothingness.

If this is how things go for unrepentant sinners ... well ..... this is why I pray for people. That dream shook me to my core.

So, I believe that the unrepentant sinner will go from his death to punishment in Hades. I believe that this punishment will depend upon just how sinful he was on earth. Then comes the Judgement, and I believe that the person who rejects God on earth will again do so at judgement. It is at that point that God casts the sinner out, and possibly into some remote corner of hell, maybe into a scenario I stated above. God finishes Judgement, and I believe that the soul can only last for so long outside of God's presence, so (again, this is just my belief/feeling) it begins to eventually fade to nothing. Once this happens to all of the souls in hell, it is cast into the fire, and burned up forever.

Once the unrepentant souls are cast in the fire, in Revelation, then the new earth and new heaven are created. (and I believe, again, just my belief, that hell is destroyed. From what I understand, the word in the Bible that is translated "forever" is often a word that really means "till the end of the age, as long as the age lasts") The creation of a new heaven and a new earth would seem to me to be the end of the former age.

Anyway, I could be completely wrong about this all, but I'll just put it out here for whatever it's worth. I do know this for sure, hell will not be some happy place. The idea that hell will be some party for the "cool people" is pretty ridiculous when you stop and think about it. Hell will be hell for those who wind up there. It will be a punishment appropriate for being an enemy of God. I thank God that he put His message in front of me so many times that it finally sunk in, and that He saw fit, for some reason, to rescue me from myself, and my sins.

I also will say this, God doesn't care if we go to a particular church, or denomination. He wants us to read His Word, to accept Christ as our Lord and Savior, repent of our sins, and obey Him. He also wants us to humble ourselves, and accept that we cannot do enough to gain salvation on our own. Our "good deeds" are never enough. We need to leave our sins at the foot of the cross.

A Christian should want to obey God, and should be willing to ask God for His help in doing so. We obey God not because it is the right thing to do, but because it is the right thing for us to do.

As far as Jesus, I want to ask you to think about this. God loved you so much, that He sent His Son, Jesus Christ, to come to this earth, to be born a human being, to live a sin free life, and to be the perfect sacrifice for our sins, yours and mine. Jesus, God in man's flesh, was sentenced to die on the cross. He was tortured, relentlessly. He was abused for the pleasure of His guards. He was beaten half to death. He was then hung on the cross in such a way as to extend His dying, in the most painful way possible. He was hung on that cross naked, in front of His mother and at least one friend. He was tormented as he hung there. God took all of the sins of mankind, from Adam through the end of this earth, and piled them on top of Jesus Christ. Think about that for a minute .... the man who was perfect, and sinless, whose very nature abhors sin, had the sins of all time piled on Him. God hates sin, and since Jesus was laden down with man's sins, well, God refused to look upon Him anymore. This is when Jesus cried out in His agony, "Father, why have you forsaken me?" Then he died, with all of that repugnant sin piled upon Him. He essentially became sin, so that when He died, our sins could die with Him.

They He was resurrected 3 days later. He did so to defeat sin, and death, so that we too could defeat sin and death through Him.

God didn't just say "Do as I say, or else." He also gave us a perfect way out of sin, and out of death. That way is Jesus Christ. Many other religions have different ideas, but there is only 1 perfect way, only 1 way that works, and that way is Jesus Christ. I absolutely and completely believe that with every ounce of my being. I hope that you will find your way to faith as well. Ask God. He does answer, if we come before Him humbly seeking Him.

That is great that you have a personal relationship with God. I am actually a little bit jealous of that because I have difficulty understanding what you mean by it. Do you talk to God? Does God talk to you? Has he revealed himself to you in some unmistakable way? Are you implying that the voice in your head/subconscious mind is actually God? When I was younger, I did indeed try to reach out to God and to be quite blunt, never got anywhere with that. There were no lines of communication. It is all faith and no evidence, which bothers me, because I am a 'show me' kind of guy. I even tried praying before and some of those prayers were indeed answered. However, it seemed as if the prayers were answered at about the same rate that they would have been had I never prayed in the first place.

My intent was never to get into a debate with you about whether and which God exists, bible passages, or any of that. My point was that most people (and this includes many Christians-in-name-only who don't go to church, don't read the Bible, and make no effort to follow Jesus's teachings) have experiences that are more similar to mine than they are to yours. So if you try to get someone to change their behavior because that is what your interpretation of what God wants, the vast majority will just kind of roll their eyes at you. There has to be at least some tangible benefit to society and ideally to the individual as well (if you want people to actually change their behavior).

I believe that a healthy and happy person almost never does some of these horrible things we see happening in the world today. Healthy and happy people think in more intelligent ways (often in more benevolent ways, like the area of the brain responsible for uplifting thoughts literally grows with good and healthy habits), they can get what they want in life without resorting to violent and/or sexual crimes, and on and on it goes. It seems like almost everyone has their own vices, but take a man who is in a horrible place in life and acts accordingly, and have him make the following changes:

1. If he is using any hardcore drugs, he must stop. No exceptions.

2. If he watches hardcore porn, he must stop. No exceptions.

3. If he plays video games, watches TV, uses social media, and uses the internet excessively, he must cut down to a reasonable level that does not majorly interfere with the rest of life. This all plays together. Is a few hours of these things combined per day such a bad thing? Probably not. But a few hours each per day of video games, TV, social media usage, and general web surfing is a major problem. It's not that uncommon either.

4. If he is not exercising regularly, he must start. Some basic cardio and weight training (or lifestyle equivalent), starting very easy and light and progressing from there, is fine. Exercise is not just healthy for the body, it is healthy for the mind. Literally exercise has shown to involve brain neuroregeneration.

5. If he is eating an unhealthy diet, he must clean this up. Part of this is due to the fact that healthy food has more/better nutrients and such for optimal functioning of the body. The other half of this, which is less understood, is that many highly refined junk foods have a sort of drug-like effect on the body (e.g. sugar rush which is really the same thing as a dopamine spike which is basically the common denominator in all addictive things, whether they be drugs, social media, or a can of pop).

6. He should have something to get up to. In practice this means a job or business or schooling. Loitering around all day is bad for the mind.

7. Sleep should be prioritized; healthy adults generally need about 6-8 hours of high-quality sleep (waking without an alarm clock) or about 5-7 hours at night with a short nap in the afternoon (often only 15-20 minutes in a healthy sleep cycle). The amount that is needed is usually overstated due to how many people ruin their sleep by artificially regulating it e.g. with alcohol, sleep medications, alarm clocks, etc. and due to the accumulation of sleep debt. Healthy sleep is necessary for a healthy mind yet very few people understand zeitgebers and other factors that affect timing, duration, and quality of sleep.

Now how many people do you know that follow all of this? I'd bet not many. But any person who follows this (stops using drugs, stops watching porn, limits 'screen exposure', exercises regularly, has a healthy diet and healthy sleep) will dramatically turn his/her life around for the better. If someone happens to be following this all already, their life is very likely to already be in good order. They're probably a healthy happy person that we're not even worried about in the first place.

Keeping this thread in mind in regards to violence against women:

One person pointed out that porn is highly unrealistic and leads to warped views on how easy sex is to get. Then some guys get frustrated at their lack of progress and act out accordingly. Yeah that's probably a good point. Heck I am a very looking guy and you know how many times I've been propositioned for sex by a stranger during the day, with no alcohol involved? Oh yeah, never

Another pointed out the highly aggressive nature of today's mainstream porn and how kids watch this stuff from very early age and never stop watching it. Again this leads to warped and even worse, sinister views. An excellent point, and I agree it's a problem.

I just add onto this that it's not always such a clear cut, direct thing. Oh this person saw this as a kid and he acted out in that specific way when he got older. It is usually not such an obvious thing. It is more the effect on the brain overall, and again, since all young men watch it, this affects all of them. It's an addicted society (again with the caveat that porn is only one of many factors).

I think if you have a generally healthier and happier society, you'll have less crime. Young people would stop behaving in such bizarre ways. You wouldn't need 'safe spaces' on college campuses, because a mentally healthy young man should not easily have his feelings hurt. On and on it goes (but there's a limit to how much I'm willing to type)-- all this stuff ties in together.

Like the Businessman who is interviewing others for a certain position in which he needs a particular trait and thought process, God is looking for people of faith. It is important to Him. As Jesus told Thomas, who after seeing the risen Jesus with wounds and all, "Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed."

In His search for men of faith, God has put it out there to believe or not believe for now. Once He reveals Himself, faith ends.

The only reason that bit about religion/God was included in that post was as a way to connect to those who are not inclined to change their thinking based on man's interpretation of religious texts, and to provide a reasonable alternative viewpoint as to the causes of some of the negatives in today's society. I'm not going to get into the whole, 'God thinks this, this is why God does that, God works in mysterious ways' thing. Inevitably it goes nowhere.

I know you agree with me on the lifestyle factors that I laid out in that post. You've said as much in another thread where I made a similar albeit shorter post. So whether someone gets to a better lifestyle through religious means or not probably doesn't matter as much as that they do it somehow.

Well I wasn't looking to make a believer of you, I was just trying to provide a reasonable alternative viewpoint to your statement from my point of view. I have no clue why God is looking for faith and why it seems so important to Him.

Touchy touchy touchy.

Not touchy at all. Friendly discussion.

K

Man you said a mouth full I believe there is like a purgatory for lack of a better word...for those that are truly evil souls....Ive read the Bible more times then I can count and have struggled with Jesus being the only way to heaven.

While I believe in Jesus and what he said, mostly...I just cant wrap my head around someone who lived a good moral life would be sent off to hell for not accepting his word as final say while on this planet.

Now if you die and youre standing there before them and they want acceptance or hell?? well holy crap is that late and why would they want you after you lived your life here on earth one way then get there and accept them.

I read all that you wrote Y-town....and you have no idea how hard it is for me to like/believe what Jesus said but it falls short for me when someone like Gandhi would go to hell for not believing...and I dont think for one second hell would be where the cool people would hang out...no hell would be miserable I'm sure of that much.

I just cant understand why if God spoke to early people...why wouldnt he do it again? Why would they go 2000 and more years since Jesus to show SOMETHING? Now if you get into the end times stuff I guess they are showing....man I better stop here...this could turn into a novel.

For what it's worth, I wouldn't say that I'm a believer or a non-believer. I have not made up my mind on whether and to what extent a God/creator/superintelligence has shaped this world. I suppose that makes me a non-believer by default but I have no desire to talk people out of religious points of view that they connect with or that make them happy. Sitting on the fence isn't necessarily such a bad thing

Well as far as not having made up your mind, I am sure God is awaiting your decision with bated breath.

If you do find a way to talk people out of their faith, it would be interesting to hear because I would think they never really had faith to begin with.

You would have to talk long and hard to convince me, as I travel from one room in the house to another, that my faith in there being breathable air in the next room was wrong.

Faith.

I have faith...just not very sure its in the Christian way...and no way in my mind are we here by accident...no matter how that developed. But man is it hard for ME to buy in to these religions...others dont feel that way...I envy that in a way..but I'll find out soon enough...and if I'm not good enough oh well snuff my soul out and I wont know anyway.

If you come to understand that "Religion" is a man made thang, it might give you a different perspective when you are thinking of your God.

OK, I am finally home, and I will try to get through your questions.



I have told this story before, but my communication with God is not a spoken word, where I hear His voice audibly.

Rather, I feel His voice. I have told the story many times of how I was ready to kill myself because of bad reaction to a medication my doctor gave me. I was freaking out, sweating like crazy, and truly going insane, The medication really had a horrible effect on me. (it turns out that I am very allergic to this particular medication) Anyway, at the depths of my despair, and with anger raging within me, and just generally freaking out, I called out to God, yelling, swearing at Him ..... I was not very nice.

I then felt this presence. That is the only way to describe it. This incredible calm came over me, and I was back to normal in a heartbeat. I .. well, I can only describe it as feeling God telling me that everything was going to be OK, and that He wanted me to follow Him.

It was the single most powerful experience of my entire life.

It is like that when God answers one of my prayers. (It doesn't happen every time. Not every prayer requires God to speak to me, and not every answer has to be verbal, or an approximation)

I had problems, as I was in deep financial problems due to my medical situation, and not having any insurance for almost 2 years. I finally decided to turn my finances over to God. Miraculous things started happening. (and I can prove every one of these) My long term disability was going to cut off the month before my Social Security started, and without medical insurance, I was going to be in trouble. The woman with the insurance company said that she would check to see if there was anything they could do. I figured that was just lip service, but I just felt God say not to worry ..... so I didn't.

The woman from the insurance company called me back, and said that she did some checking into the master policy and she found that mine had a rider, that covered the transition period from insurance to Social Security. She said that she had never seen a policy with it ever before, but mine somehow had it, so she sent me a check fir 3 months of insurance.

My father turned up, after being missing from the lives of myself and my brothers. I felt God tell me to forgive him, but I resisted. I continued to feel this need to forgive him, and so I decided that I should, as we are to forgive if we are to be forgiven.

My dad has done well for himself, and he came up for a visit, and sent me and my brother each a rather sizable check. I had no thought of even seeing my father ever again.

There was another bill that I was unsure of how I was going to be able to pay. I prayed over it, and felt God say that it was taken care of. I sent the insurance company a letter, explaining my situation, and asked if there was any way I could arrange a payment plan with them. I got a call from the office manager for the hospital, and she told me that she received my letter, but that they have no way of setting up payments. I started to say "OK I under ..." but she interrupted me and said, "I don't know why I am going to do this, because I have never done this before for anyone, but i am going to forgive your debt with our company. You don't owe us anything, and I will make sure your file is updated as paid." Mind .... blown.

There have been others as well. I asked God to take care of things for me, and He has never failed. To the contrary, He has succeeded in ways that I could never have imagined.

I have prayed to God for many other things as well, and have felt Him leading me in certain directions that I never expected.

I started reading my Bible regularly, and I have found too many times to count that I have had a problem, and that problem has an answer in what I read that same day. It is often downright astonishing. I started looking into things with the UM church, like what opportunities for service there were .... and saw things like Lay Servant, Lay Speaker, and such .... and one day I went to my Pastor with a Bible question, (as I had done a few times) and he answered it, and we got into a theological discussion, where I told him of my dream of the sinner's punishment, and he said to me, out of the blue, that he wanted me to take the classes for Lay Servant and Speaker. We had never discussed it. I had never expressed a desire to do such a thing. You can call it coincidence, but I feel that God set me in a certain direction.

I don't believe that God always answers with words. He also does not always give me what I want, or ask for. Sometimes he gives me something completely different, and sometimes something so much better that I never even considered it.

Anyway, I have found that the deeper in my faith I have gone, the more often these "incredible coincidences" happen. I think that God speaks in a variety of ways, and get His point across quite well, when He wants to.

I also know that it has happened more and more frequently as I have given myself over to Him more and more, and as I have studied His Holy Word more and more.



I believe that the reason people have experiences that are closer to yours is that they do not give themselves over to God. They offer lip service to asking for forgiveness, and so forth, but live lives that are identical to every other hell bound sinner. They make no attempt to serve God. They place their lives, and their sins, above God, and so God shuts them off. Why would God waste His time on someone who is going to do things in such a way that it leads others astray? Why give the sinner a miracle, then they flaunt their sins in God's face? God wants all of us, not just a little bit. He doesn't want us to "stick a toe in" and see how the water is, He wants us to jump in head first, and trust Him. Speaking for myself, I could feel my faith growing more and more and I got into God's Word on a daily basis. I started reading the Bible every single day, and sometimes 2 or 3 times/day. I found answers to my problems and questions appearing with remarkable regularity, and clarity. You have to take the steps to come to God. He could force you to do so ..... that would be well within the powers of the One who created everything ..... but He wants us to choose Him. He wants us to want to be with Him, and to Love Him. He wants us to rely upon Him for everything. If we accept Christ as our Lord and Savior, and turn our lives over to Him, then He helps us in ways we cannot imagine. However, sometimes the ways God chooses are not the things we asked for. Using the company I spoke of above as an example, in that case I asked God for help, and wanted a payment plan. God took care of the whole thing. God can do amazing things when we let Him. We run into problems when we decide that we know better than the immortal, omniscient God who created us all.

As far as interpretations of what God wants, the Bible is really clear on most things. In the early days, after leaving Eden, God wanted us to love and obey Him, and trust in Him for salvation. However, man thought differently, and in their arrogance, told God that they wanted rules to follow so that they could do it for themselves. So, God gave us the 10 Commandments, knowing that it was a perfect Law for imperfect beings, and using it to show us that we cannot hope to be sanctified by the Law. None of us can be. All God wanted was for us to come to Him, and ask for His help. Of course, those people, like people today, were prideful, and unwilling to accept that they cannot do everything for themselves, so they continued to try the Law, and continued to fail.

As far as the Law, the 10 Commandments, the reason that God gave us these Laws, is because they are good for us. Every single one of the Laws is beneficial for man. I would argue that each one is more beneficial for man than their opposite. However, people will roll their eyes at that too. People have been rolling their eyes at God, and willfully disobeying Him since the beginning of recorded history. It is no surprise that it continues today. However, God still loves us, and still wants us to be with Him, in fellowship, and in love and peace and joy. However, we have to choose it, and the way we choose it is to turn our lives over to Almighty God, who created us and everything else in the universe. We can choose otherwise, and God will never force us to choose Him, but when we choose otherwise, we are asking God to just leave us alone. So, He does. He doesn't force any of us to come to Him. It is always our choice.

I am not going to quote the rest. You have some nice ideas as far as how people should act, but what reason do they have to do so, if not God? They can choose to behave, but they often get the things they want far easier by not behaving as we might wish.

I believe that this world is a fallen, evil world. We have people in it who love evil, and who worship evil. They worship their lusts. They worship power. They worship money. They covet everything other people have. They not only want everything, but they want it today. They lie about their friends, co-workers, neighbors, and anyone else they can think of. If thoughts could kill, many would be murderers many times over. Evil is running rampant in this world today. "Easy sin" is the prime motivator. Far to often, instead of making a stand against these sinful actions and attitudes, we just fade back, and fit in. Many tell us that we don't dare bring faith into the public arena, saying that it has no place there. If there is one thing we need more of today it is faith in Jesus Christ, and the saving atonement of the cross.

I definitely agree with you about the way many people who call themselves Christians look at their faith these days ..... with some lukewarm faith, that is there as long as it is convenient, and doesn't get in the way of the rest of their lives .....

When we look at the lives of 2 people, one supposedly a Christian, and the other an atheist secularist, and we cannot tell the difference in any observable way, then I agree, there is a major problem. I truly fear that there are going to be a lot fo Christians who are going to be horribly surprised on Judgement Day, when Jesus does just as He promised, and spits them out for being lukewarm. Jesus doesn't want "almost saved" people. He wants people on fire with their Faith, and who want others to have what they have. I know that I drive some people nuts on this board, but I want them to truly know God, and I want them to be saved. The world encourages, and drives people in the direction opposite of God. What the world offers ends the very moment we draw our final breath, whether that is in 50 years, or 5 seconds. God offers us everything good, through Jesus Christ. It's all paid for, all we have to do is choose to accept it.

Let me add that I appreciate the opportunity to discuss this with you in a civil manner.

Let me ask you a question.

If you were God, Almighty and loving, all powerful and just, with all being essential aspects of who you are, and you have a rebellious creation, what would you do with it?

I know what I would have done. *Flush* Time to start over.

God didn't do that, though, He gave us every opportunity to be redeemed through the blood of His Son, Jesus Christ, who he sent to this earth to be a perfect and sanctified sacrifice for our sins, and to take our punishment for us.

God sent His Son to die for us. Imagine if you had sent your son to die for the world. Would you have some rules to follow, since he did lay down his life and all?

I would.

Gandhi, for all the good he did, basically said that the sacrifice of Jesus Christ did not matter. He said to God, sorry, but I am going to tell people that your Son simply did not matter.

Now, again, put yourself in God's shoes. You sent your only son, to die, a torturous and humiliating death on a cross, to take away the sins of the world,and you have someone who says that his sacrifice didn't matter, and that we can go to paradise through other means.

That is essentially what Gandhi said.

Is it any wonder that God would condemn him?

As far as why God would go 2000 years since Christ without saying "something" do us ... it's because Christ already did the talking upon that cross. We have God's Holy Word, and deep down inside, we have this gnawing feeling, even if we try to suppress it, that it's all true ... even those who say they don't believe it. (/all)

God sent His Holy Spirit to be with us, following the ascension of Jesus Christ to the right hand of God. We have His Holy Spirit, and that is God's voice in this world for now. We either choose to listen ..... or we choose not to listen.

Oh, and I am sorry for the even longer reply I posted before this one. If I have one talent, I can write ........ in volume. lol

Thanks for the response to some pretty tricky questions, Ytown. You do not drive me nuts on here. I may not always agree with things you write but appreciate you sharing your experiences in a meaningful and thought-provoking way.

I found the comments about the Ten Commandments pretty interesting. If we can temporarily put aside the bit about other gods and all that implies, I happen to think the Ten Commandments are a pretty good guideline to follow! Don't murder, don't commit adultery, don't steal, don't lie, covet, etc. I certainly believe in following all of that, as do many people I know (both religious and non-religious).

The sabbath day is another interesting one. This is something I learned in my younger days of being an athlete, that at least one (and preferably more) day per week has to be an off-day, meaning no strenuous exercise at all. In fact very hard stuff should really be reserved for no more than a few days a week, with a couple easier days thrown in there in addition to an off day or two. A similar thing can be said for work/employment-- work 7 days a week and most people will burn out rather quickly.

Lot of experts on porn in this thread. Just saying.

BTW, the sooner mankind gets over this god fantasy, the better off we will be.

The problem is that people do not follow the 10 Commandments.

The 1st 4 Commandments deal mainly with man and his relationship with God.

Do not have any gods before God
Do not make any idols
Do not take the name of God in vain
Remember the Sabbath, to keep it Holy


God them moves onto man's relationship with his fellow man:

Honor your mother and father.
Do not murder
Do not commit adultery
Do not steal
Do not lie about your neighbor
Do not covet your neighbor's belongings

We habitually thrash the 10 Commandments. All of them. Especially if we use the method of examining our behavior that Jesus used.

Jesus said that a man who lusts after a woman commits adultery with her in his mind. Why is this important? Because it devalues the other person, and it devalues any relationship they may be in. It is a form of covetousness.

Jesus said that a man who hates his brother murders him in his mind. How many times have we thought about someone having an unfortunate accident ..... or even strangling someone in some "funny" way .... (or some do so in a very serious manner) This behavior damages our relationships, even if we never act on these fantasies.

Do not steal is obvious. In the time of Jesus, a poor man could go into someone's vineyard and eat his fill. This was not considered stealing. However, when a man steals from another, doing so not out of need, but because he is jealous of the belongings of another, or because he just doesn't care about their property rights. This happens frequently in today's world. People steal music, and don't care. They take supplies from work, and, well, that's fair. People see a mistake on a bill that is in their favor, and say nothing. These are all forms of stealing. They all damage our relationship with others. These are not as egregious as pulling a gun on someone, but they do damage the way we relate to others, and if we can excuse a "small" theft against one person, it becomes easy to do the same against another.

In our society, we lie about people all the time. It is amazing at how vicious people can be about one another, telling lies in order to get ahead, get a certain person to date, and just to tear down someone else. This really is a form of murder, as it can kills the reputation of the person being lied about. There is an axiom that says that a lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.

We covet all the time. Our advertising is built upon coveting the things that belong to others. Look at the primaries right now. We currently have a political campaign that is all covetousness. "It's not fair that they have what you don't, so you should have their stuff." This is rampant today.

Our society really does not believe in following the 10 Commandments, and it is getting worse as time goes on, not better. Now I am not saying this is true of every single person, but ask yourself how many people you know who do these things, and it is perfectly acceptable to others.

We probably couldn't even hope to obey the last 6 Commandments, let alone all 10. In fact, I bet that even the very best of us break these Commandments each and every day at some point.

Even if we only use these as the "Commandments", we're in trouble.

However, then add in 1-4, (and Jesus is the Sabbath rest of the believer, so we are not required to follow that Commandment in the way many think of it) and we are in desperate trouble.

This shows why we need a Savior. Thank God that He sent Jesus Christ to save us from ourselves.

Let's start with the idea of faith. I'm going to quote 40 here, and this seems to be a fairly common viewpoint from religious people. Keep this in mind:



Now take the first commandment: "Do not have any gods before God"

Add in the fact that humanity has followed thousands of gods throughout history and you have a whole clusterfudge of implications. Many of these competing gods have said largely the same thing. In fact, worshipping the wrong god, in many religions past and present, is the worst crime someone could commit.

This all seems very bizarre to me. So I'm supposed to go ahead and pick the right God from a pool of religions that I've had little reason to believe are accurate (due to the requirement of faith and the lack of direct evidence), from gods who will not reveal themselves, it almost seems like an impossible task to do. It's like playing Russian Roulette with a twist-- there's only one empty cylinder.

I wrote in this thread about my lack of experience in communicating with God and the relative lack of miracles that I've seen in my life, keeping in mind that more than 10,000 days have passed since I was born-- I have seen some crazy stuff of course but I do not see any particular reason to attribute this to God instead of mere chance, and that deep down, I believe the large majority of humans are good people.

It almost seems like I'm better off sitting on the sidelines. I try to live life in a good way, and if one of these gods happens to be very real (Judgement day, if you will), perhaps I can show that god that I almost always held myself to a high ethical standard and that he put me into an essentially impossible task to figure out which of the very similar and non-apparent gods was the right one. If this actually happens, I hope much pity will be given to me.


As for the latter six:
- Honor your mother and father.
- Do not murder
- Do not commit adultery
- Do not steal
- Do not lie about your neighbor
- Do not covet your neighbor's belongings

All good stuff. I wish more people lived in such a way as to follow that list. It seems our source of disagreement stems from you seeing religion/God as the best and perhaps only way for people to follow this and I see much less correlation there. Many atheist/agnostic types I know are very good/moral people, as are many of the Christians.

Wonder how this woman felt about a man not accepting no..

http://www.yesimright.com/woman-hitchhik...db20dd-Facebook

With all due respect to 40, God and Jesus showed Himself to the people of Israel and beyond, and yet they still rejected and defied Him. Even seeing God and His power just isn't enough for some people.

I think that we all know, for certain, that God could reveal Himself to the entire planet all at once, in some undeniable, awe inspiring, and yet absolutely unbelievable way, and a certain percentage of people would say that it was all a publicity stunt. Others would say it was a mass hallucination. There would be a large part of the scientific community who would have hundreds of explanations for what happened, They would come up with explanations that have no chance of truly explaining what really happened, yet they would coalesce around a certain theory or 2 anyway.

There are people who believe in God, other people who are not certain, and yet others who do not want God to exist because of what His existence means for them, and who will deny God's existence even when they stand before Him at Judgement.

This last group will deny God no matter what, because it is part of who they are, and their entire persona is built on there being no God.

I often enjoy the show Doctor Who. (even though they sometimes espouse some ideas I cannot agree with) One of the pseudo joking type aspects of the show is how ordinary people forget all about many of the unbelievable things that happen to them, and just assume that it was anything except what actually happened. People accept what is "believable" within their world view, and deny what is not. As I think about this, I can actually see a guy sitting at his desk at home, inside his locked house, with the alarm on, and all of a sudden Jesus appears. The guy freaks out, and Jesus asks them to be calm, and that He means no harm. The guy reaches for his phone, and it turns into a dove. The guy grabs his gun, and fires dead center, emptying the entire clip into Jesus. The bullets don't pass through Him, nothing in the house is broken, and yet Jesus is unharmed. The man cannot believe that it really is Jesus, so Jesus brings the man's late grandfather and grandmother physically back to life for a moment to try and reach the man, and then also miraculously transports the man's mother and father to his side, with them appearing out of thin air. Jesus asks the man to believe in Him, and accept Him as Lord and Savior. Then, as the man watches, the heavens open up, and Jesus walks off, into eternity, along with the man's late grandparents. Jesus leaves the man's parents with him, as continuing evidence of what happened.

The man then turns to his father and mother and says, "That was weird. I just had the weirdest hallucination."

I absolutely do not think that it would matter to many who deny God, even if He appeared before them right this second, because they simply do not want to believe, and would be actively and desperately looking for reasons to not believe.



I feel compelled to ask you ...... what would be enough for you to believe? What would be enough proof for you? What would make you say "I have zero doubt that God exists, and He is the God of the Bible"?

What would it take for you to believe? Would anything be enough, or would you then just say that it was a crazy coincidence, or just mere chance? I don't ask this to be smart, but I am just curious as to whether God could ever "do enough", or would anything and everything He does simply be written off as mere chance, or crazt coincidence?



"If" God is real, then He will have tried to reach you time after time after time, and you still will have refused to believe Him. "If" God is real, then He is a perfectly just God, who expects us to obey Him, and who punishes those who do not. "If" God is real, then He sent His Son, to be born into mortal life, and to suffer and die, in order to pay the penalty for our sins. "If" God is real, why would He just shrug His shoulders and pardon those who have heard, have felt His presence, and yet have refused to believe? The Bible tells us that we cannot be "good" enough to earn salvation. We have all broken God's Law, and we continue to do so each and every day. We are habitual lawbreakers.

Imagine if the authorities wanted to give everyone a fresh start, and so they said "just come in and confess what you did, and we will immediately pardon you. However, if you do not come in, them you will be prosecuted to the furthest extent of the law, and we will impose the maximum possible penalties, with no plea bargains."

The guy who is caught, 5 years later, is not going to be pardoned. He is going to be prosecuted for every single thing he did, and the maximum penalties will be imposed.

Why is it that we can clearly see this when it relates to man handling crimes, yet we refuse to see when it relates to God? Either we ask God for His pardon before we stand before Him for judgement, or we face the maximum. We don't convict criminals of capital crimes,and then let them go free. We don't convict criminals of capital crimes, where the evidence is absolute, and then work out a plea bargain as they go for sentencing.

Why do we expect God, who knows all, to somehow decide to work out a last second plea, when we have our entire lives to decide to throw ourselves on His mercy?

It wouldn't work in human courts, why would it work when standing before God's justice and judgement?

Please think about this. Please ask God for His mercy, and help. If we truly and earnestly seek Him, He will show Himself to us, and if we ask for His forgiveness, and accept Christ as Lord and Savior, He will always forgive us. Always.