I can't believe anybody believes that god created us and has had no contact with us what so ever since creation and never came to earth to see us or anybody since we are all his children right? When we die we all go to heaven right? Well where is this heaven and god and christ? where's his second coming? He didn't come back because he's dead. Man he didn't even come back so you no it's all BS. There is no eternal life it's all lies but people believe it. If your dead family members can talk to you in heaven they can talk to you on the earth I mean when they die they never say goodbye before they go to heaven right so it's all lies and people still believe them. Got Jesus? People still believe he's coming back lol...

XTC - Dear God

Acts 2:29

29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.

There are a lot of good people on this forum that believe, and there are a lot of good people on this forum that don't believe. What's the purpose of your post, other than to insult those that do? You're intent is obvious, as you ended with a snide, jackwagon comment followed by an lol. Did you get bullied today or something and feel a need to take it out on good folks here?

I've read some very good atheist-point-of-view posts on this board.

This isn't one of them.



Well thanks for filling us in professor.

I would much rather believe in god, and run the risk of finding out that there is no heaven when I die.

then not believe in god and find out that there is a heaven in the afterlife, but I can't enter...

In other words, you mind as well find a faith that you can live within......because, honestly, what do you have to lose.....with faith you have everything to gain....

I choose to believe in God we all have a choice and that's mine ...

I don't agree that we all have a 'choice'. If we did, everyone would believe because, well, why not?

Because it's not a choice between believing or not, but a choice between believing whom and not.

Don't know what ya mean.

The following is an actual question given on a University of Washington chemistry mid-term:

"Is Hell exothermic (gives off heat) or endothermic (absorbs heat)? Support your answer with a proof."

Most of the students wrote proofs of their beliefs using Boyle’s Law (gas cools off when it expands and heats up when it is compressed) or some variant. One student, however, wrote the following:

"First, we need to know how the mass of Hell is changing in time. So, we need to know the rate that souls are moving into Hell and the rate they are leaving. I think that we can safely assume that once a soul gets to Hell, it will not leave. Therefore, no souls are leaving. As for how many souls are entering Hell, let’s look at the different religions that exist in the world today. Some of these religions state that if you are not a member of their religion, you will go to Hell. Since there are more than one of these religions and since people do not belong to more than one religion, we can project that all people and all souls go to Hell. With birth and death rates as they are, we can expect the number of souls in Hell to increase exponentially. Now, we look at the rate of change of the volume in Hell because Boyle’s Law states that in order for the temperature and pressure in Hell to stay the same, the volume of Hell has to expand as souls are added. This gives two possibilities.

1) If Hell is expanding at a slower rate than the rate at which souls enter Hell, then the temperature and pressure in Hell will increase until all Hell breaks loose.

2) Of course, if Hell is expanding at a rate faster than the increase of souls in Hell, then the temperature and pressure will drop until Hell freezes over.

So which is it ? If we accept the postulate given to me by Ms. Therese Banyan during my Freshman year that "It will be a cold night in Hell before I sleep with you," and take into account the fact that I still have not succeeded in having sexual relations with her, then (2) cannot be true, and thus I am sure that Hell is exothermic."

The student got the only A.

There is no such thing as objective universal truth, therefore, whether you are religious or not, you have placed your faith somewhere.....

I was having a chat with my boss a while ago, and after she made a crack and I laughed...I said "you know, we're both going to hell over that". She said, "Don't worry, I heard it's a dry heat".

In the words of Robert Muldoon, Jurassic Park’s game warden:
"Clever girl..."


oooops. Wrong thread-

let he who hath understanding reckon the number of the beast

Iron Maiden

*Gives ohio1974 a hug, and says a prayer for him*

I prefer faith.

See no point to this post except personal attention. Prayers for both of us.

I guess you are better in this.

j/c

I think we should all remember the lesson that rock and roll teaches us.

There's a Stairway to Heaven and a Highway to Hell. This should tell us everything we need to know about the anticipated traffic flow.

The point is did Christ ever come back? He would of all ready came back a long time ago. He's dead he's not in heaven or hell he's dead. Even he said it best "why have you forsaken me" Even he found no god at his time of death.

So you wish to quote the bible where it suits your agenda but refuse to look that it also says he was resurrected. Got it.

Who cares about the bible Christ said it.

Selective beliefs. "I select the part that furthers my agenda and ignore the rest."

Like I said I will pray for you and give you a hug. However I am far far from perfect myself, and if you just want to stir the pot and make a donkey of yourself. I will be happy to ride you every time you show up.

*grabbing my spurs*

Pray for me for what? You out to lunch or something? I don't need you to pray for me. The truth is Christ never came back and there was no resurrection it's all lies.

I read your posts and I completely understand.

I was once like you, many decades ago.

So you can count me among the foolish who became a believer.

God gives us a lifetime to figure it all out, waiting patiently with open arms and in the end, He judges us.

I wish you luck and I have hope for you, for deep inside, when you originally started this thread, you unconsciously spelled the Almighty's name with a capital "G".

All they found was an empty tomb and no Jesus. An empty tomb does not by itself prove the resurrection at all. Let me no when you see him.

Thanks for posting and your not foolish at all I'm glad you believe in God. I spelled it that way on purpose. Can't believe some people tell you they'll ride you everytime how rude! Instead of discuss it. Man the nerve of some people.

Do you know where my nerve comes from? It comes from the FACT that you have done nothing but troll since you showed up here. If your posts were for real I would respond to you if a much different manner. But since you want to act like nothing more than a jack butt, I will treat you like one. WHILE I pray for you.

It is my hope you come around to praying because our boys only had 7 and a half wins last year and everybody is now talking Superbowl. We need you man!

Troll here are you for real? Ive been here since this board started.

"But since you want to act like nothing more than a jack butt, I will treat you like one. WHILE I pray for you."

"I will treat you like one" Man you are one rude person. Your one of my favorite posters to. Unreal post when you can contribute to it ok? I don't want to ruin this post any more with you.

I hope so lol Because I want them in the playoffs bad. I've waited just as long as everybody else has. Im with ya Go Browns!

Believing in the Flying Spaghetti Monster is just as valid as believing in man made religion.

Watch it, talk like that will end with you next to a pillar of cracked pepper.

"Believing in the Flying Spaghetti Monster is just as valid as believing in man made religion."

That's what I about think


Most people don't get the man made part.

What do you have to lose as a believer in god?

Supporting dumbass policies that screw over the rest of the country, for one.

Have a good day.

Saying dumbass things during natural disasters, such as they deserved to get hit by hurricanes cause they were living in sin, as a second reason.

Committing acts of terrorism in the name of your god, for a third reason.

Having your kid raped by a catholic priest in church, for a fourth.

I can agree with you on that one bro

Being sold in to sex slavery in the Middle East, as a fifth.

Honestly thinking you saw Jesus in your toast, as a sixth reason.

Using religion as a reason to justify slavery and segregation, as a seventh reason.

Burning witches at the stake, for an eighth.

Thinking the earth is only 6000 years old, as a ninth.

Saying your anti abortion, til we find out you was trying to get your mistresses an abortion before wifey found out, as the tenth reason.

I gave you 10 reason, shout to to the Ten Commandments.

Love you to Swish, even if we butt heads all the time

Love you too GM

Simply believing isn't going to lead to any of these things you mentioned....but taking that belief and trying to adapt it into a system to control others--this is where you are going to run into trouble...

You have posted less than 50 times over the last several years. You seem to be a Bengals fan just trying to stir up crap. Sorry that you feel the need to troll

possibly nothing. Possibly everything. Imagine the egg on someone's face if Allah does not exist, but Odin does. Pascal's wager only works if there are two options.

A bengals fan are u mentally deranged?

Quit ruining my thread

LMAO you ruined your own thread.

Sure it could. Besides, you’re believing in something man created.

I’m not knocking it, by the way, but there’s plenty of reasons to not believe, since you asked.

I don't get offended by his observation. Everyone has the right to decide what they believe. As for me I believe Jesus Christ is my Lord and Savior. He died for me so I will live for him.

I think you're confusing religion and god. A belief in god is not the same thing. It's the rules at down by man that you seem to have a problem with.

Man was the one who created the concept of god.

And then created rules around it.

There’s no confusion since man is the beginning of both.

My main problem with the God concept: if He is so terrific, why do so many bad things happen?
Can't he make life better for us on Earth, instead of putting a carrot in front of noses?

Is that the fella you want to spend eternity with? No heaven, no hell and the world isn't flat.

Lol.... you try to have a conversation about God.... and Jesus breaks out....

Why is this?

The post is about heaven,God and Christ.

I would say that man pigeonholed god into his narrow understanding of the universe. Even physics tells us that something cannot come from nothing, therefore something must have been there before there was everything. In science, we can trace back the beginning of the universe to a single point in space and time. That singularity is god. It's a concept we still don't and probably never will understand.

By that logic, who created god.

BINGO!!!

The Prophet ErikInHell has spoken!





This is perfect. The best written succinct description of God I've ever read. It aligns perfectly with my personal belief.

I'll take it one step further and say "Why not worship JESUS?" (or any other God or religion) It makes the incomprehensible incarnate. (a simple representation (that we can grasp) of our weird origin, existence and purpose)

"Praise be to Allah." "Praise Jesus." "Praise our Lord Buddha."

Better than thinking WE are God.

That's why it's god. The alpha and omega. The beginning and end. Not of this earth. Timeless. Haven't you read any scripture?

You do understand your posts are no different than those that stereotype black people or Mexicans, right?

Trying to claim that all believers fit any of your descriptions are no less offensive than when someone stereotypes your race.

I believe in God but fit none of your stereotypes. I repeat, none of them. You don't have to follow a religion, and even many of those who do are nothing like you've described.

In life, to get respect you have to give respect. That is earned, not given.

Thanks. The pic almost looks like me too.

I was trying to stay out of this but...


Can he? Yes. But there is no carrot dangling in front of you..... go out and do good things, be nicer to people, be more understanding, be more giving, be more forgiving, be more humble, take better care of yourself..... now imagine if 7.5 billion people all did that at the same time.. How many bad things would be happening? Sure, there might still be the random natural disaster and it probably wouldn't eradicate all disease.... but imagine your daily life if everybody, and I mean EVERYBODY, lived that way...

yea sounds like a ton of BS.

religion = race

- Pitdawg

Generalities and labeling people are universal. Quit acting like people should judge people as individuals when you refuse to do that yourself.

And in case you missed it, the same discrimination right exist for both race and religion.

You're not that special.

never claimed to be special.

still dont like religion. wont like religion. dont believe in your god or anybody's god.

yall got a whole religion based around some chick who got knocked up, then claimed it was the son of god.

yea, its really easy to judge people who honestly think it went down like that. just like how god flooded the earth, killed everybody accept a couple people, then left them to commit incest in order to repopulate the planet.

either god is a massive creepy ass sex fiend, or he's a catholic priest.

I never try to convince anyone to believe in God. I also don't lump everyone who disagrees with my views into a one size fits all box. I also don't try to degrade them for their beliefs or lack of them. We've both posted here for a very long time. You know I'm none of those things you described in any of those previous quotes.

It's the exact same thing as you point the finger at others for. When someone says things like "all gays", or "all blacks", you take issue with it. I don't blame you. Then you turn around and label all believers in God the exact same way.

You know what they call that, right?

the hypocrisy of christians in one meme:

She didn't abort the baby.

i dont respect your religion. i dont respect islam, or judaism, or buddhism, or hinduism, or any of it.

this isn't anything new, please stop acting surprised.

yea the romans took care of that.

Nobody asked you to respect it. But normal people don't disrespect people's beliefs either. There's a difference. You are just acting exactly like the people you claim to despise.

Oh well. Religion is trash

I don't care much for religion myself.

Which is why I’ve always said I don’t have a problem with people who believe in god. I have a problem with the system and those who run it.

The system got people all kinds of jacked up.

I agree. But I'm not one that's going to judge someone for their religious views.

Well, okay, I have a hard time with Catholics.

If god is all-powerful and all that is good, then how does evil exist?

either he isn't all powerful, or he isn't completely good...

If god can do anything, and nothing falls short of his power?

then can god create a rock so heavy that he himself cannot lift it?

Interesting questions posed by men....

Regardless, I consider myself a Christian....

Then we need to have a discussion on what ‘perfection’ means.

A god has to be perfect and all powerful. But what does that actually mean?

This may have been touched on already, but God has already come to earth.

He came as Jesus Christ, the Son of God and died for our sins so we might have eternal life. He took our place at the cross.

It is your job to believe that He did or He didn't. That is where faith is required.

Faith is everything.

Amen brother

you have to have faith in something......even our so-called reality is a question of faith....

Whether you like it or not, everything around us can only be perceived through the 5 senses that we have and the brain that interprets the information gleaned through our senses...

Do we know what a tree is really like objectively....no... we receive visual stimuli, olfactory stimuli, and tactile stimuli that our brain use to construct our perception of said tree....Is this really what a tree is like.....you can't really know as we are limited to the perception that our brains produce....Outside of the world our brains construct, there is no way of knowing what the universe really is like...

We have faith in our senses without any way of proving that those senses correctly perceive reality....

Just saw your post.

No need to be this way with those that believe in God. I've been on here a long time and am openly Atheist. Just as you do not care when they try to push their beliefs on you, they don't care for unprovoked assaults on their beliefs. Just live your life your way and let them live theirs the way they choose. In the end we might all be wrong somehow and will need each other in some way.

But if the bible thumping knuckle draggers get in your face for being Atheist, then all bets are off.

God talks to me daily. You may not see or hear Him, but that isn't my problem. That is your problem.

Seek, and you will find the reward.

This convo was about what I expected from the very start.

On Voltaire's death bed a priest knelt beside him and asked Voltaire to renounce the devil. He replied, "This is no time to be making enemies."

So God created mankind in his own image, in the image of God he created them; male and female he created them.

This took a turn I did not expect.

"RIP"

Only god I pray to is the porcelain god. And I make regular donations.

Fine.

Since, this thread isn’t dead yet.

I guess all you atheists are really, really smart and every one who follows a religious tenet is really, really stupid.



What is that, a bible?

At Neil Gorsuch's U.S. Supreme Court swearing in?

Why do they do that? Are they just pretending that the bible means some thing?



Of course they're not as smart as you.

Bush swore on the Bible too.

And then two wars happened.

Jesus Christ is not God you need a new bible.

Or you could just read yours. The Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit are ONE.

"Christians cannot possibly believe that the God who created this vast universe actually entered into His own creation as a carpenter’s son in an unremarkable corner of the Roman Empire nearly two thousand years ago, can they? Surely, Christians are only making a theological statement when they speak of the deity of Christ, right? They can’t possibly believe Jesus is actually the God-man, the Creator amid His own creation, right?

As amazing as it sounds, that is exactly what believing Christians claim. Moreover, we actually believe that is the only consistent way to read the writings of His disciples. In fact, Jesus’ own words, when read in the context of first-century Judaism, clearly indicate that He viewed Himself as having come down from heaven as the very Son of God. One such indication can be derived from the gospel generally regarded as the earliest, the gospel of Mark. When Jesus stood at His trial before the Jewish Sanhedrin, He was solemnly asked, “Are you the Christ, the Son of the Blessed?” His response was forthright: “I am, and you will see the Son of Man seated at the right hand of Power, and coming with the clouds of heaven” (Mark 14:61–62). Modern readers might miss the significance of Jesus’ words, but His hearers surely did not. They knew He was drawing from two well-known and significant passages from the Hebrew Scriptures, Psalm 110:1 and Daniel 7:13, the latter presenting a divine figure who has followers who worship Him. The response was quick: “The high priest tore his garments and said, ‘What further witnesses do we need? You have heard his blasphemy. What is your decision?’ And they all condemned him as deserving death” (Mark 14:63–64). Those who heard His words knew what they meant."

Blah, blah, blah, blah, BLAH.

Making false claims is what got him killed.

How could a very minor rabbi, from a conquered country, and from its smallest family, and raised in a disrespected area of the country, and who dies as the enemy of 2 states, become everything Jesus Christ did?

Jesus is named in historical records outside of the Bible. The names of the 2 thieves who died with him are not known. The names of most people dying on crosses, in public and humiliating torturous deaths are not known. Why is one minor rabbi recorded.

Before 1961 (IIRC) the name "Pilate" (who the Bible says is the one who sent Jesus to die) was not accepted as being anyone in power during the time when Jesus lived. Some considered him to have been invented. Then historians found a limestone nameplate for Pilate. There were no records of Pilate, a governor, but there are records of Jesus.

These are relatively minor ideas.

The Apostles are not portrayed as brilliant and courageous men in the Bible. They are portrayed as dense during Jesus ministry, missing the obvious meanings of Jesus's words. Jesus had to teach them over and over again. They became flat out cowards when Jesus was taken to be executed. Even after Jesus had appeared to them, after His resurrection, they were still hiding in a locked room. However, after God sent His Holy Spirit to the Disciples, they became bold evangelists. Saul was a Pharisee, who was on a hunt to capture, and maybe even put to death, the Apostles of Christ. He was struck down and blinded on his trek. He turned from being a hate filled enemy of Christ, who he saw as being a blasphemy, to being the greatest evangelist for Christ. He spread the message of Jesus Christ to the (then) known world. The Apostles did the same throughout Israel and Judea. They all faced possible death sentences for going against the Jewish authorities, and their Roman overlords.

Side note: The Romans didn't care if Jesus was really God, or if he was a heretic. The only thing they cared about was not the Jewish territories were quiet and peaceful, or not. They didn't want anyone fomenting rebellion, in any form. They worked with the Jewish leadership to make sure that they would keep the area quiet. The Jewish leaders did so in order to keep their prestige and positions in their society. Truth was secondary to these concerns. It's sad how little society has changed since then.

Now, as to the biggest reason that I, personally, believe. I spent decades on the periphery of Christian faith. I kind of believed. I know a little of the Bible. However, I had no personal relationship with God. I thought I was a Christian, but the life I lived certainly didn't demonstrate my faith.

Then my back went bad. Eventually my doctor put me on a pain medicine. He put me on a Fentanyl patch. I went insane. I almost threw myself out my 2nd story window. I was frantic and desperate. I started yelling at God, really irrationally, asking why He would do this to me, and asking what I had ever done to Him. All of a sudden, I felt this voice saying "Be calm, my son". Yes, I didn't so much hear it as feel it. I was immediately perfectly calm. I took the patch off, and called my doctor. They had no idea that Fentanyl could do that. I went to the ER. They had no idea either.

Anyway, that was the start to my true journey of faith. I have no question whatsoever that God is God. I have no question that Jesus Christ is the Messiah, who came to redeem and save us from our sins. I have no doubt that Jesus came and died as a substitutionary sacrifice for my sins, taking my place to pay the price I could not.

Of this, I have no doubt. Through intense and often excruciating pain and disability, I have no doubt. The more I read the Bible, the more I see the complete way things interweave, and show God's love for us. Sin is God's enemy. However, He gives us free will. We can choose God and salvation, or we can choose sin, and death. He does not force us.

So, each of us has the right to choose our own path, and our own destiny. God loves us. He woos us. He pleads with us to come to Him. However, many people chose to close their ears, hearts, and minds to God. That is their right. It is your right.

From my perspective, it is also incredibly sad.

That wasn’t god who told you that. That was the nurse trying to tell your ass to sit down before she called security to come in and taser you.

Sound like you were about to start eating people’s faces off.

Mark 4

The Parable of the Sower

1Again Jesus began to teach by the lake. The crowd that gathered around him was so large that he got into a boat and sat in it out on the lake, while all the people were along the shore at the water’s edge. 2He taught them many things by parables, and in his teaching said: 3“Listen! A farmer went out to sow his seed. 4As he was scattering the seed, some fell along the path, and the birds came and ate it up. 5Some fell on rocky places, where it did not have much soil. It sprang up quickly, because the soil was shallow. 6But when the sun came up, the plants were scorched, and they withered because they had no root. 7Other seed fell among thorns, which grew up and choked the plants, so that they did not bear grain. 8Still other seed fell on good soil. It came up, grew and produced a crop, some multiplying thirty, some sixty, some a hundred times.”

9Then Jesus said, “Whoever has ears to hear, let them hear.”

10When he was alone, the Twelve and the others around him asked him about the parables. 11He told them, “The secret of the kingdom of God has been given to you. But to those on the outside everything is said in parables 12so that,

“ ‘they may be ever seeing but never perceiving,

and ever hearing but never understanding;

otherwise they might turn and be forgiven!’ a ”

13Then Jesus said to them, “Don’t you understand this parable? How then will you understand any parable? 14The farmer sows the word. 15Some people are like seed along the path, where the word is sown. As soon as they hear it, Satan comes and takes away the word that was sown in them. 16Others, like seed sown on rocky places, hear the word and at once receive it with joy. 17But since they have no root, they last only a short time. When trouble or persecution comes because of the word, they quickly fall away. 18Still others, like seed sown among thorns, hear the word; 19but the worries of this life, the deceitfulness of wealth and the desires for other things come in and choke the word, making it unfruitful. 20Others, like seed sown on good soil, hear the word, accept it, and produce a crop—some thirty, some sixty, some a hundred times what was sown.”

You are seeing, and hearing. Now try perceiving bro

SMH why do you hate Christians. That's an honest question bro. I know you say you don't but you sure act and post like it.

I believe Jesus Christ is a man that died by his own lies.

And I believe that Jesus Christ is a man that died because those around him and in power didn't want to hear the truth.

I was at home, alone, at the time. My only company was my dog. Maybe he learned English?

Thats fine bro. You have every right to believe that just like I have every right to believe otherwise. I did jump all over you for your post (I shouldn't have that was wrong of me) But have you ever seen me start a thread telling YOU just how wrong you are? The answer would be no because I have enough respect for others to not bash them or to put them down about their beliefs by starting a threat to do so.

Thanks GM were cool. I won't put them down either but I'll discuss it with them.

I don’t hate anybody. That’s like asking why I hate my grandmother and mother, both Christian women.

I tell them the same thing I tell you. Love you guys, but the religion sucks. Same thing I told my family about Islam. The religion can kiss my ass.

You and YTown are cool though overall. Just like Pit and DC and rocket and etc.

But it doesn’t change the fact you believe in a dude who’s mom made up a story about getting preggo without sex.

The universe is billions upon billions of years old, and expanding. The earth is billions of years old. There’s been thousands of religions, thousands of man created gods to worship.

But don’t worry, somehow, we’re the special snowflake species, and somehow, you’re religion is the right one.

Like I have told others. We can disagree all day long on some subjects, and agree all day long on others. I hope you don't take anything I say on here as personal as I would say the same things face to face as we sat at a bar. *giving you that hug I first posted about*

OK maybe I was wrong for saying HATE. If so I apologize. I am not real high on organized religion myself, but I am high on my relationship with Jesus, God, and the holy spirit.



You see it as made up. I see it as God's plan. That's cool we can agree to disagree.



Don't worry I never have said my religion is the right one (Please feel free to look up my posts from the last 20 years lol) I talk about my faith, not my religion.

We agree to disagree.

You think that's bad they believe she got knocked up by the invisible boogeyman The only woman to get pregnant without having sex. Which is impossible but people believe it.

Women get pregnant all the time without sex. It's called artificial insemination.

The only difference is that man uses scientific equipment. God uses His will.

I don't know why people think that man can easily do something that an Almighty God cannot.

Yeah with male semen they do.

Could this be the second coming lol.

Maybe. But you might the the Next Going.

Did you have McDonald's again?

j/c:

We are all entitled to our unique beliefs. However, I don't agree w/those who feel the need to attack the beliefs of others simply because they do not align w/their own.

“God uses his will”

That sounded rapey as hell.

Nobody has been attacked in this thread.

j/c

There's a difference in disagreeing with people on the topic of religion and disrespecting, belittling and insulting the beliefs of others.

That’s gods will though.

No, no it isn't. He gave man free will. No excuse absolves poor behavior.

Constipation could qualify.

He didn’t give anybody anything except PTSD. Out here raping women and calling it gods will.

Without Jesus Christ, the United States would not exist, and neither would you.

What's Jesus Christ have to do with the United States?

He thinks religion is the only reason people do anything.

As if we didn’t have people exploring this country for non religious reasons.

Apparently Jesus was the one who said “no taxation without representation”.

I can’t find that anywhere in the Bible, but supply side Jesus might have his own version.

Now that is true wit and funny as hell! Hmm must be nitrous oxide in hell too if it makes us laugh so much =P

I'm not a man who puts much stock into religion in general. Religion to me is just the clothes you wear to make peace with your spirit.

I am a Christian because I believe what Christ proclaimed when he said the only way to heaven is through him. I believe you have to be baptized as a way of publicly proclaiming your faith and to be obedient to God.

You either believe in Christ or you don't. It doesn't matter what denomination you are or whether your Catholic or not. I don't really think one is better than the other but each just comforts people in their own way.

I don't believe Jews or Muslims will go to heaven because they deny Christ. Atheist don't want to believe in God or Heaven or Hell and that is their choice. I think it's a poor choice but that is between them and God and he doesn't force anyone to believe in him. I don't believe they are evil or bad people. I don't believe in hating anyone because they disagree. However I am a Christian so I believe what Christ says over anyone else. Either they are right or I am along with hundreds of millions of others.

I don't believe that Christians are better than anyone else. I just believe that if your a true Christian than you will repent of the evil that you do and that you will be forgiven when you give up enough of your pride to ask for that forgiveness. Repentance means you try your best not to keep doing the same wicked things over and over again. Saying your sorry but then you just go out and do it again is not repentance.

To me excessive self pride is the most dangerous of things because it blocks you from seeing your own faults and correcting them. I mean you can't be forgiven if your too proud to ask for forgiveness. Most people avoid Christ and God simply because they are too proud to admit they have done anything wrong.

I'll say it again, because I'm not getting through to some of you people:

Atheists don't 'choose' to not believe in God, heaven or hell. We just DON'T.

I believe in God just not the god man created with the bible. Any man that says you must believe in me to get into heaven is a liar and a fraud.

Hopefully, we'll get this issue figured out tonight.

Only if you kicked the bucket last night.

...just the one that you created in your mind?

If that isn't attacking another man's beliefs, I don't know what is.

In effect, ohio1974 is claiming to have supernatural powers to see beyond the mortal world.

I think it's safe to say that if there is a God, he can do things beyond what you are able to comprehend...

The notion that God can't exist because humans can't explain miracles is the non-believers weakest argument. If you believe in God, miracles are possible... if you don't, they are irrelevant.

It's not an attack it's my opinion.

Like I said, you don't wish to add your opinion, you wish to instigate and attack the beliefs of people who believe differently than yourself. It's disgusting.

Not me Christ did.



I don't no where you get that from? I sure never said that.

No i believe in a god a creator just not the one man created with heaven and angels and eternal life.

So would that be God Light or God 2.0?

And how did you arrive at your theory?

Years at studying the bible god heaven and angels and christ.

Yet your theory goes against what the Bible teaches. So it's impossible to derive your theory from the information obtained in the Bible.

The bible is truth according to man it actually helped me quite a bit.

Thanks for no real explanation at all.

Everything in life is a choice. You were told God existed. You choose not to believe what you were told. Therefore you choose not to believe in God.

It's ok. It's your choice and your free to make it.

God is a potter who makes a lot of pots. Some crack in the fire and get thrown out. Some survive it and become useful pots with a purpose. The pots are not evil, bad, or good. They are just pots. What makes the pots happy is to be filled up with purpose and be useful.


Isaiah 64 vs 8 and 9

"Yet you, Lord, are our Father.
We are the clay, you are the potter;
we are all the work of your hand.
Do not be angry beyond measure, Lord;
do not remember our sins forever.
Oh, look on us, we pray,
for we are all your people."

Many people have purpose and are useful without believing on God. Many are fine, upstanding, charitable people without believing in God. Many wonderful people do not believe. The two don't have to go hand in hand.

I don't normally laugh out loud at work, but this comment made me do so.

Glad to help!

Razor, I'll put it another way:

I didn't choose to be a Browns fan, it just happened. I haven't been able to change my Browns fandom in 31 years, I mighta done it years ago if I could, and be celebrating another Patriots title.

Not everything is life is a choice.

As Brother Lampdogg said in his immortal teachings....

"The mind struggles to control the heart
For the heart, in light or in darkness, knows what it most desires
Praise the Lord and pass me a beer... It's game day at the pound"

No... there are two ways that we become something:

1. Genetics
2. Choice

Now we can jokingly say that being a Browns fan is genetic, but it's really not. For most of us it is just a choice we made as a kid that was heavily influenced by the people/factors in our lives.

I became a browns fan in 1985 when I was 11 years old. I started to really like football after playing it with friends and turned on my first browns game and never looked back.

God moved you.

Of course. I don't disagree with that at all. Like I said, the cup is neither evil or good. But a broken cup can't hold water like it was meant to. I view people much like spiritual cups. Some folks just can't hold their water or rather spirit. They can't hold it so they can't feel it or understand it. I have often seen this condition linked to depression or people searching for something they can never find. Not all of course, but certainly some.

I don't blame people or judge people for not feeling or understanding spirituality. After all if you can't feel it then it's very hard to accept it. Some people are the opposite. They feel spirit so much they are almost drunk on it.

I know that I personally can feel the presence of God at certain times in my life. I can tell the difference between a hollow church and one where the lord is there with purpose. My brother, who I love, feels none of the things I do. I don't blame him or think less of him for it. Instead I share what I can in hopes that someday he will feel what I feel too or that he will take a greater leap of faith than me and believe even when he doesn't have a way to feel things the way I do.

I leave it up to God to reveal himself in his own good time to those he chooses to call to him.

For me, it wasn't. I'm 1,300 miles from Cleveland, live in Canada and never knew a Browns fan. O barely paid attention them until the fumble game.

Why are you a Browns fan?

Bro, you aren't making sense. You "chose" to become a Brown's fan.

Theres no such thing as a genetic Browns fan.

You are indocrinated in some form or fashion.

No, I believe in my soul that it '"just happened'.... I've always compared it to falling in love - you don't choose that, it just happens.

jc….

On my travels I've been seeing more and more churches boarded up, or up for sale....I guess there is a growing number of ppl who share the op's perspective....

The most interesting discussion would be what are the repercussions if that is indeed true? Of course, we can't have that on this board because ignorance and bias reigns supreme.

Happening in a lot of places. People don't go to church every Sunday as they once did. People are busier, with too many things on the go. In the small town I live in, two Catholic Churches have closed in recent years, while another teeters on the brink. Sign of the times, and probably won't get any better.

I think there is a huge misconception that causes some to connect religion to spirituality. I do not see them as the same thing at all. I don't believe you need a group, a religion or a church building to be a spiritual human being.

Well, they're pretty good at raising money.

I wonder how many of those churches you saw empty had simply built a bigger, better church? Or even reached what appears to be the ultimate goal of some, mega church status.

Lot's of things we can't explain my friend. Where does outer space end? How does gravity work? - The greatest and most brilliant scientists in the world can't answer these questions. They can't prove or disprove God either. Personally, I think the concept of God drives some scientists crazy. - They are so brilliant and can quantify so many things but no matter how hard they try they can't explain God.

Essentially, no human being alive has the intellectual capacity to understand or prove God. I personally believe in God because it is nearly impossible to explain things that happen right in front of us that we can't see or track. Take childbirth for instance, cells that we can't see merge and despite being microscopic, they know how and when to divide and what to do once they've divided. - The finished product is you, me, everybody. And no matter how smart we are, no matter how hard we try, we could never merge onto each other and form some supreme being. This process, to me, gives insight into God's brilliance. Once his work is done we are here to thrive and discover but we could never duplicate or come close to God's brilliance. Interesting stuff if you think about it. I'd love to read your thoughts in response.

Hi RememberMuni I haven't seen you in a while good to hear from you again. We got to remember how many different religions there are and we got remember each one man created. Christ was also supposed to come back over 19 centuries ago.I believe there is a creator just not the god man created with religion. I don't believe in the word of Christ or in angels or heaven or eternal life. One day we will all find out the truth.

And you said you learned that from the Bible.

"The basic reason there is a debate about the delay in Christ’s return is that Jesus told the first generation of his disciples that he would be back before the last of that crew kicked the bucket: “Truly I tell you, there are some standing here who will not taste death until they see that the kingdom of God has come with power” (Mark 9:1).

He assured them, “Truly I tell you, this generation will not pass away until all these things have taken place” (13:30)—“all these things” apparently including reference to the “Son of Man coming in clouds with great power and glory.”

In light of that promise he adjured them again and again, “keep alert . . . keep awake . . . keep awake” (Mark 13:33-37), for “truly I tell you, you will not have gone through all the towns of Israel before the Son of Man comes” (Matt. 10:23).

Admittedly, he said that nobody would know the “hour or the day” of his return, but in general terms, Jesus definitely prophesied that he would be back before the end of the first century.

And since we are still here, it seems like he was pretty wrong!"

"And if the basic message of Jesus was wrong, then how can anyone presume to find “salvation” through faith in him?

More pointedly, why are people living and dying in hopes of being received into the Kingdom of Heaven when the terms of that offer (its nearness) seems to have expired nineteen centuries ago?"

I've always felt that parts of the Bible are metaphor. Don't get me wrong, I firmly believe in God and the Holy Bible, but don't forget that metaphors are interpreted differently.

Can you list a full quote that makes you question the Bible to see if I can make sense of it for myself and try to express my interpretations to you?

You use some verses as if the next don't exist at all. I will answer the 1st of your verses.

Mark 9:1; And he said to them, “Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see that the kingdom of God has come with power.”

What happens in the very next 6 verses?

Mark 9:2-7; 2 After six days Jesus took Peter, James and John with him and led them up a high mountain, where they were all alone. There he was transfigured before them. 3 His clothes became dazzling white, whiter than anyone in the world could bleach them. 4 And there appeared before them Elijah and Moses, who were talking with Jesus.

5 Peter said to Jesus, “Rabbi, it is good for us to be here. Let us put up three shelters—one for you, one for Moses and one for Elijah.” 6 (He did not know what to say, they were so frightened.)

7 Then a cloud appeared and covered them, and a voice came from the cloud: “This is my Son, whom I love. Listen to him!”

(Ytown's note: The cloud was a form in which God had used to guide His people from Egypt)

These 2 right here:

“Truly I tell you, there are some standing here who will not taste death until they see that the kingdom of God has come with power” (Mark 9:1).

He assured them, “Truly I tell you, this generation will not pass away until all these things have taken place” (13:30)—“all these things” apparently including reference to the “Son of Man coming in clouds with great power and glory.

It never happened before their death. There also was no second coming like he said there would be. Too many falseaties for me.

There are 2 times that could be considered "kingdom of God has come with power."

One is the one I referenced, that occurred immediately after the verse you quoted. The Glory of God was in full display.

The 2nd is the resurrection of Christ. He was "glorified", going to His death as a sheep to the slaughter, to accomplish God's purposes. He was then returned to life, and after having spent 40 days with His disciples, Jesus was lifted up to Heaven.

Jesus said that only The Father knows the hour when He will return to judge the world.

If you read Mark 13, Jesus breaks events down into 2 categories. Things that must occur, and in fact, did occur, as the temple was razed, and Israel was all but crushed.

Then he speaks of things to come later, at a time only the Father knows.

24-27: “But in those days, following that distress,

“‘the sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light;
25 the stars will fall from the sky,
and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.’
26 “At that time people will see the Son of Man coming in clouds with great power and glory. 27 And he will send his angels and gather his elect from the four winds, from the ends of the earth to the ends of the heavens.

Then in 32, Jesus says that even He does not know the hour of the final events.

32 “But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. 33 Be on guard! Be alert! You do not know when that time will come.

Reading one Bible verse is never wise, because often confusing items are cleared up shortly thereafter.

I think the first thing to understand God is to remove references (including the prophets) and religion from the discussion.

They just obscure the truth.

The danger in removing the Bible from trying to know God is that inevitably everyone makes up their own god, who does exactly what they think this "god" should do, in a warped inversion of creation obeying the creator.

As if that never happened before...

Agreed.

I think the BEST place - and perhaps the only REAL place - to find God is outside of any religion. Find your own understanding and eschew dogmatic teachings.

Keep in mind that I am not well versed in the bible, I don't know much of the history behind and around it, so these are my interpretations. I am a special education teacher who helps kids learn how to behave while also providing math and reading intervention.

I personally feel that the people who wrote the bible and 10 commandments were incredibly smart. To me, the words within the bible are a source of comfort for so much of what plagues us today - stress, violence, misguidance, etc. While the 10 commandments are a perfect guide to leading a calm, peaceful life.

Regarding the first quote you posted "“Truly I tell you, there are some standing here who will not taste death until they see that the kingdom of God has come with power” (Mark 9:1)."

I feel that if you take this quote literally, then yeah you'd be disappointed that people never saw this grand kingdom of God come down from the clouds. But if you interpret it differently as I do then you might think that the kingdom of God comes down with power in numerous ways and that those people, like many of us, saw it before they died- food being shared amongst the poor, people living through destruction, a baby being born to somebody who was told it would never happen, somebody who gets wronged but responds with kindness, somebody who receives a violent blow to the head or body but lives to tell about it. - This is how I interpret God's power.

A couple quotes that I read again and again to deal with my biggest enemy: stress.

"Cast your cares on the LORD and he will sustain you; he will never let the righteous be shaken." Psalm 55:22

"So do not fear, for I am with you; do not be dismayed, for I am your God. I will strengthen you and help you; I will uphold you with my righteous right hand." Isaiah 41:10


Keep in mind that when I found these quotes it was in a period of major stress in my life. I didn't start reading the bible, rather I went to google and searched Bible quotes about stress. These quotes came up and really helped me regain confidence.
I hope you found this insight interesting and I'd love to keep corresponding if you have any more questions.

You are much too logical, cooperative, kind, self-effacing, and reasonable to participate on this board.

I better add that I mean all of that as a compliment.

Thank you Verse. Now that I'm old I kind of learned how to evolve with people. I remember posting on here when this site still belonged to Browns.com and I used to get into it with so many people still on here. You, DC, GM, Arch, 'Peen, to name a few.

LOL............the good ol' days.

the bible is man made. so it was warped from the jump.

"The danger in removing the Bible from trying to know God is that inevitably everyone makes up their own god, who does exactly what they think this "god" should do, in a warped inversion of creation obeying the creator."

I always point to the Ten Commandments, and also the 7 deadly sins as central messages to respect for myself, my family, and my friends. Granted, the 7 deadly sins aren't in the bible but they have roots from the church. I think of how brilliant and influenced by God these people must have been to create such guiding principles thousands upon thousands of years ago. It really is incredible.

"the bible is man made. so it was warped from the jump."

I get your point. But, in my opinion, there is such a thing as spiritual guidance that may have been an influence on the people who wrote the Bible. Kind of like a positive action or feeling that overcomes us that normally wouldn't. I'm sure you've had moments like this. Learning how to ride a bike independently for the first time, watching a struggling reader read for the first time, watching the weakest kid on the team hit a home-run in baseball. - Stuff like this, but as adults thousands of years ago.

One thing I think one needs to keep in mind is that Churches acted as the government in many instances. They ran nations and set the laws. So it's only natural that you would have things like the Ten Commandments and the seven deadly sins as guidelines for the people to follow.

this issue is that for that to be logical, it has to apply to ALL religions.

not just the one you think is the right one.

We all worship the same God, IMO. We just battle over the politics of religion.

Christ is my road to God. Buddha is another's road to God.

God created us, God also knows the message to bring us home.


Who am I to say another persons road to God is a dead end?? If it is, they chose wrong. And I think the only wrong choice is to not believe.

Of course it was..Jesus was a man and his so was his disciples.




I would hope not...


I just bought 2 new Bibles yesterday.. NIV study Bibles. I read them because It's a cool story.

Harry Potter is a cool story..Most books are cool if that's what you like to read.

I read the bible because that's what i like to read...It's what I want to read so I can learn about something I'm still learning about.

I Pray to God I won't let any man not even Christ pull me away from God. I don't need any man to save me If Im worthy God will save me.

Buddhism doesn't integrate God nor heaven in their philosophies, but I agree with your post.

Just to answer this idea:

You do realize that this directly conflicts with what Christ taught? Jesus taught that no man goes to the Father except by the Son. No man.

If we truly believe in Christ, then why would we dismiss what He taught?

I put my faith in God not man. Do you think God would need any man to save his own children.

I don't understand what you mean?

Well I like Buddha quite a bit but he never once claimed to be a god or God. Viewing him as devine came more from the Hindus who viewed him as a reincarnation of Vishnu but Bud never said that about himself.

There are many buddhists who view Jesus as a reincarnation of Buddha since many of his teachings and many of the miracles he performs are very similar.

The goals of Jesus and Buddha are extremely different though. For Jesus wants you to be saved and go to heaven while Buddha seeks to lead you to enlightened oblivion.

Any religion that leads to the denial of salvation from Jesus is not leading you to worship the same God.

Religion is kind of a joke.

There is no doubt a God. But he cares little for humans.

I see it every day.

Otherwise his creation would be perfect. There would be no cancer. No disease. He wouldn't murder little babies for no reason.

Religion is for fools. You think you have free will, but you don't.

The fact for religious people is:

You follow your religion and jump through all of God's hoops, and be a good pet, to God.

Because he has that carrot: Everlasting life in Heaven.

Yeah, go jump through some more hoops, suckers. It amuses God to no end that he can control you however he wishes, because carrots.

OR God uses that religion as an excuse to punish you.

AND if at any time God feels you aren't kissing up to him enough, he will kill your family, your pets, give you diseases, make disaster happen, etc.

Just go look at the Book Of Job to see how little God cares about humans.

He makes bets with the Devil (himself) to see how much he can torture a human before it folds. Yeah God cares so much about humans.

We are nothing to him. Mostly like ants on the floor to [censored] with.

Or go ask the Jews, how much they loved being cooked alive in ovens, because yenno, they didn't follow God's commands enough. They are his chosen people. Chosen to die.

And, for the record, I don't believe in Hell. Or the Devil. I feel that God is inherently evil.

My life experience with this is why I became apostate.

Losing Paradise | Angels and Demons



not surprised. basically showing how christians state crap that isnt even in the bible.

Christians are deluded in general.

Religion is supposed to be a covenant between God and Man.

But it's not.

Man tries really hard to hold up his end.

While God just laughs at the wool he pulled over Man's eyes.

I see you haven't really read about the garden if Eden and how man lost his protection from God. And if you even watch the news you can see man isn't really doing much if anything to hold up his end.

God's covenant isn't with "People in General"
It's supposed to be with the individual, because when you go to "Heaven" you are judged individually.

So are YOU holding up your end? Are YOU jumping through enough hoops?

I don't really believe in a "Christian Heaven".

I believe in an afterlife that is more organic than that and has little to do with "Religion". Religion is for suckers who want to be manipulated.

I'm actually not a fan of religion in general myself. But the bible does tell us that we will all face trials and tribulations. That we will all have our faith tested. So I don't see that as anything that goes outside the bounds of what the bible teaches us.

But for the most part, when it comes to the subject of religion, I think we agree. IMO religion has dome more to bastardize Christianity than to further it.

Ask Job about being tested when his children were killed for God's amusement. HIS CHILDREN

This is why I reject religion, and God.

I don't accept any sort of God who would hurt me for his own amusement just to somehow test my faith in him. Those are not the values I would consider righteous in a diety. Those are evil actions.

One thing about me you'll find, I've never tried to push my views on God or religion down the throats of others. I believe freedom of religion also means freedom from the religious beliefs of others. As such I feel we should respect the rights and respect others to believe as they so choose.

So while we may disagree on what we actually believe, I do not feel it ever is or will be my right to try and cram my beliefs down your throat. This is America. And as such everyone has the same right to believe as they so choose without enduring the judgement of others. Even those who do believe in the Bible should know you don't judge others. Even though it seems they forget that sometimes.

I don't try to preach to others. I am just sharing my views based on life experience, on this thread.

I didn't mean to insinuate that you were.

So your saying Hollywood embellished stories it told about the Bible Who would have ever thunk it.

Just Hollywood? lol please.

The 10 commandments weren't, God carved them on a stone.

Bumping this thread up so I can apologize to you. What I said was way out of line and wrong. No excuse is acceptible so I will just say I am sorry for the choice of words I used and the tone I took with them. I was wrong to lash out in frustration.

Don't worry about it GM were fine. I'm not even mad.

God is nothing but love. Love is god and god is love. Enjoy.

Good
Orderly
Direction

Whatever put us here left a long time ago.

We all have a right to our own opinions

Ever hear of the “Hubble Deep Field”?

It’s a picture of space that the Hubble telescope took a few years back.

From earth, this photo is a tiny pin [censored] in the night sky.

Only two of the “lights” are milky way stars. The rest are all galaxies. (about ~ 10,000)



This is just a tiny pin [censored] in the night sky. Among trillions and trillions of pin pricks in every direction.

There’s at least 100 billion stars in the Milky Way. There’s more galaxies than that.

Science tells us this all came from a single infinitesimal point (The Big Bang).

Every single word in the bible is more believable than that.

Which part of the bible explains the universe, galaxies, billions of stars, etc.? It took god seven days to make the earth or to make it all? Because I mean other than let there be light, seems like he focused on earth for 6 of those days. Are we really that important in the grand scale of infinity?

Genesis 1:19; God made two great lights--the greater light to govern the day and the lesser light to govern the night. He also made the stars.

J/c

We’re on the outer arm of a small and insignificant galaxy that is inching ever closer to a collision with the Andromeda galaxy, killing any living thing in each one of them.

We’re in the trailer park of galaxies and God is saying, “here, hold my beer”.

What's the second / lesser light? The moon? That doesn't emit light.

Genesis was from several thousand years prior to the birth of Christ. No one would have understood it if the scriptures would have said; "And a reflective orbiting body that would store the suns light and illuminate the night".

Also, it doesn't say "emits light". It says, in poetic language, "to govern the night".

I would add that we use the terms sunrise and sunset, and none of us believe that the sun somehow actually rises and sets over a stationary earth.

so its flawed... got it.

Not really, moonlight/star light provides a light quite well. It just isnt much appreciated in populated areas because of city light polution.

It doesn't provide any light. That is sunlight reflecting off of it.

Well, stars do in fact generate their own light. Moonlight doesnt, but it provides light via reflection.

1000's of years ago, when the old testament was written, they wouldnt know the difference.

The technical details may be debatable, but the end result is the same. Nightime light is indeed provided by heavenly bodies.

Mental gymnastics to maintain that the book is perfect.

Is a notion created by humans, to explain their existence. Nothing more, nothing less.

Let's look at the fallacy within your statements..

1. the Bible isn't a science book, was never intended to be.
2. you make the assumption that an omniscient God can only focus on one thing at a time.
3. you make the assumption that explaining what He was doing millions of light years away would have mattered to what He was creating on earth.

I am not a bible fantasist but without the moon there would be darkness at night. The moon doesn't make light but it is responsible for the light at night.

You are the one who added the qualifier that it needed to make light.

Christ would have come back a long time ago if what he says is true he would be like a king on this earth.

He doesn't want or need to be a king on this earth.

Mark 4 11/12

11He told them, “The secret of the kingdom of God has been given to you. But to those on the outside everything is said in parables 12. so that,

“ ‘they may be ever seeing but never perceiving,

and ever hearing but never understanding;

otherwise they might turn and be forgiven!’ a ”

Your timeline is off. If you are interested read, "The Book of Signs" by Dr. David Jeremiah. (Subtitled "31 undeniable prophecies of the apocalypse.") This should give you a much better understanding of what's to come.

Free to read from your local library.

Matt. 24:33-39

33So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors. 34Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled. 35Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away. 36But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only. 37But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 38For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, 39And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

I'm not sure what to make of this.. are you saying that Christ coming back would be to satisfy his own ego?

And he wouldn't be "like a king on this earth".. he WOULD BE king on this earth... the king that other kings bowed to...

I mean I think he was a false prophet he can't come back because he's dead no one can and that means there's no after life. He was either a liar or delusional or both.

Maybe he's happier where he's at and doesn't want to come back. Would you?

Y’all Christians keep telling us that god created man in his own image so....

Yeah and they kept putting all their lies on paper and as time and years went by the Bible was created and as the years went by the Bible started to be read more and more and man started preaching that B.S. as truth and then churches started popping up and the lies started to spread like fire and as years and time went on man started believing that as the word of god and not the word of man which is what the bible really is anyhow and not the word of god.

Still trying to figure out why god was beefing with the shellfish. They must’ve buffed their chest at god, and he felt disrespected.

Moses said that:

The Bible doesn’t explain why shellfish are forbidden in the Law of Moses. It only says that “whatever is in the seas and in the rivers, that do not have fins and scales...you may not eat of their flesh” (Leviticus 11:10-11). Many attempts have been made to explain this and the other similar food laws as a matter of health, or based on the diet of the forbidden creatures, and many of these explanations are quite convincing. But the bottom line, according to the rabbis, is that these commandments were given to separate Israel from the other nations. This intention can be seen in the repeated refrain found in the commandments themselves: “it will be unclean for you” (Lev. 11:4,5,6,7, etc.), a phrase that refers “to the sons of Israel” (Lev. 11:2). So clearly, these commands were never intended for everyone.

Bacteria. Yep shellfish have to be put on ice after they are caught to keep bacterial growth down, otherwise you could get ill.

Last time I checked ice was not available.

Most of the food practices had some fundamentally sound hygienic reasoning, appropriate for the time.

The Israelites were to be God's holy people, in return for Him giving them a homeland; "a land flowing with milk and honey".

As we all do, the Israelites slipped, and disobeyed God. There was a sacrificial system in place for "unintentional" sins, but only God could forgive intentional sins, and He did so only if the sinner was truly contrite. (as He did with David, when he slept with Bathsheba, and literally had her husband deliver his own death sentence to his CO)

God had a dual purpose for all of the many, many rules and commands he put upon Israel. Some were health related, but others were to show just how far from holiness they truly were. (and also us) God gave Israel 10 Commandments. Jesus rewrote them, again showing how far from holiness we are, and how desperately we need a savior. (go look in the book of Matthew, when Jesus says: "You have heard it said ..... but I tell you ......" (Matthew 5: 17-48)

Jesus made the impossible (obeying the 10 Commandments) even more impossible by how he framed them. Man had no chance at salvation of his own abilities. We needed a Savior. God gave the 10 Commandments, and then Jesus showed that no one (except for Him) was able to fully obey. The Ceremonial Law of Moses was intentionally impossible, to show the need for God's Grace, and a Savior.

Once Jesus was glorified, and returned from the dead, there was no need for the ceremonial and/or ritual Laws of Moses. Jesus showed us how far we are from God's perfection, and then offered Himself as a perfect sacrifice to take away our sins. The only requirements are Faith in Jesus as Savior and Messiah, and a repentant (changed) heart. The 10 Commandments are a guide for the Christian. There is no longer a need for the ceremonial/ritualistic law. (food, sacrificing animals to atone for sin, etc.)

Matthew 3:16; "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life." This was about 24 chapters before Jesus was crucified.

Moses wasn't a very good speaker.. he was trying to say "selfish".. damn lisp..

I saw the movie. That's just not true.

You can't believe Hollywood.

Maybe not Hollywood in general, but how dare you question Charlton Heston!

Judah Ben Hur didn't have a lisp.