http://www.nfl.com/superbowl/story/0ap10...kle-ted-ginn-jr Quote:
Joe Flacco willing to break rules to tackle Ted Ginn Jr.
NFL.com
Published: Feb. 7, 2013 at 12:02 a.m.
Updated: Feb. 7, 2013 at 05:37 a.m.
Joe Flacco made all the right moves in leading the Baltimore Ravens to a world championship and winning Super Bowl XLVII's MVP award. But Flacco's superb instincts seem to have abandoned him in one case.
As revealed on NFL Films' Super Bowl XLVII edition of "Sound FX" Wednesday night (see video above) on NFL Network, Flacco had an interesting contingency plan as the Ravens lined up for a free kick to the San Francisco 49ers' Ted Ginn Jr. with 4 seconds left in the game.
We'll pick it up as Flacco paces the sideline, approaching tight end Dennis Pitta.
Flacco: "If he starts to break it, go tackle him."
Pitta: "Really?"
Flacco: "I don't know ... what else can ... I mean, they might be able to get a touchdown on that, but I don't know."
Sensing he's not getting anywhere with Pitta, Flacco seeks to recruit others for his plan, turning to face center Matt Birk and offensive tackle Michael Oher.
"Hey, if he breaks it, if he busts this for some reason, tackle him; go tackle him ... I don't know what the rule is on that, but ..."
Birk: "Why can't you?"
Flacco: "I will -- I'm going to."
Of course, it didn't come to that, as the Ravens special teams did the job and tackled Ginn legally.
So what would have happened had Flacco or another Ravens player left the sideline to make a touchdown-saving tackle of Ginn?
According to the NFL Rule Book's Rule 12, Section 3, Article 3:
"Palpably Unfair Act. A player or substitute shall not interfere with play by any act which is palpably unfair. Penalty: For a palpably unfair act: Offender may be disqualified. The Referee, after consulting his crew, enforces any such distance penalty as they consider equitable and irrespective of any other specified code penalty. The Referee may award a score."
Wow...so the Refs could have awarded a score. Wouldn't it have been great if the Ravens lost the Super Bowl because of something like that.
Ahh...if only...
It continues to amaze me when NFL veterans don't know the rules.
There really aren't all that many.
I'll say a couple things on this:
1) If I was the SF special teams coach (is it Seely?), I would have advised Ginn to try to return it to the SF sideline if possible to avoid something like this. Again, if possible.
2) If I was the BAL special teams coach, I would have told Koch to punt it toward the Baltimore sidelines, just in case.
3) I can't blame Flacco for this. When you're playing for the biggest trophy of your life, you do whatever you can. However, it would have been dumb for Flacco to do it without knowing the possible consequences.
In the end, doesn't really matter, but it's an interesting thing.
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I'll say a couple things on this:
1) If I was the SF special teams coach (is it Seely?), I would have advised Ginn to try to return it to the SF sideline if possible to avoid something like this. Again, if possible.
2) If I was the BAL special teams coach, I would have told Koch to punt it toward the Baltimore sidelines, just in case.
3) I can't blame Flacco for this. When you're playing for the biggest trophy of your life, you do whatever you can. However, it would have been dumb for Flacco to do it without knowing the possible consequences.
In the end, doesn't really matter, but it's an interesting thing.
Sorry, that's dumb. Why not just have every Ravens player immediately run on the field and tackle him then?
There's a rule in place specifically for this which would award them the game. I have to imagine most people in the game, including players and coaches (and refs), know this rule. There's no need to make your electric returner question his instincts because of a lunatic scenario that is as close to best-case scenario for your team as it gets.
Well, you answered your own question.
Why wouldn't they all just run on the field and tackle him? Because there's a rule in place to punish that.
I'm saying I don't have a problem with the mindset. If the consequences aren't dire (like maybe just a 15 yard penalty or a re-kick or something), then you have to at least consider it.
But you're probably right about advising Ginn about returning it one way or the other. Let him do what he does without getting in his head.
JMHO
LOL Pretty funny article. Thing is, Flacco's plan would only have worked if Ginn was running up the sideline in front of the Ravens' bench. There's no way Flacco would have been able to run down Ginn once he's running full-steam.
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LOL Pretty funny article. Thing is, Flacco's plan would only have worked if Ginn was running up the sideline in front of the Ravens' bench. There's no way Flacco would have been able to run down Ginn once he's running full-steam.
Now THAT would have been worth it to see! 
There's a rule in hockey where if you take someone down from behind on a breakaway, and the goalie is pulled, they just automatically award the goal. It rarely ever happens, but it's pretty much the same thing. I don't blame Flacco for not knowing that rule, because an NFL QB has a million other things to worry about.
I don't think it's a big deal, because I don't think he really would have done it.
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LOL Pretty funny article. Thing is, Flacco's plan would only have worked if Ginn was running up the sideline in front of the Ravens' bench. There's no way Flacco would have been able to run down Ginn once he's running full-steam.
That was my thought too.. he's talking to a TE and an OT about catching Ted Ginn and tackling him... by the time he broke through and you realized what was happening, unless he was right in front of your bench.. no way could they catch him... It would have been funny to watch though and gone down as one of the most memorable super bowl moments...
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LOL Pretty funny article. Thing is, Flacco's plan would only have worked if Ginn was running up the sideline in front of the Ravens' bench. There's no way Flacco would have been able to run down Ginn once he's running full-steam.
That was my thought too.. he's talking to a TE and an OT about catching Ted Ginn and tackling him... by the time he broke through and you realized what was happening, unless he was right in front of your bench.. no way could they catch him... It would have been funny to watch though and gone down as one of the most memorable super bowl moments...
there was a coach a few years ago who tripped a player returning down the sidelines (in college). it has happened.
basically, if Ginn was returning down the Baltimore sideline and they positioned themselves around the 25 yard line (or past the marker as they apparently are willing to just break rules here), then yes, I could see them being able to tackle an unsuspecting Ginn (as they would be in front of him).
as the rule states, the refs would then likely award the TD and it would overtake the Titans v. Rams game as the greatest ending in the history of the Superbowl.
It happened in a Jets game a few years ago too, although I think the guy missed and nobody noticed it until well after the game was over. An assistant coach tried sticking his leg out on a pick 6 and luckily he wiffed.
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It happened in a Jets game a few years ago too, although I think the guy missed and nobody noticed it until well after the game was over. An assistant coach tried sticking his leg out on a pick 6 and luckily he wiffed.
I remember that. Isnt there a line they have to stay behind now during play?
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It happened in a Jets game a few years ago too, although I think the guy missed and nobody noticed it until well after the game was over. An assistant coach tried sticking his leg out on a pick 6 and luckily he wiffed.
I remember that. Isnt there a line they have to stay behind now during play?
I'm not sure. I know the guy was fired, but of course, the NFL being a buddy-buddy operation, I believe he's still working somewhere in the league.
Here's a NFL incident, the Jets strength and conditioning coach tripping a Miami player/gunner to try to setup a return for his own guy:
http://voices.yahoo.com/jets-coach-trips-player-latest-debacle-7394546.html
What kind of guy is Flacco ? A Winner
Karma....Flaco might have run onto the field to tackle Ginn, and during the tackle dislocated his shoulder, requiring surgery, couldnt finish the game and distroying any leverage he would have for Free Agency, & they award SF with a TD.....Now thats funny
Your first two points I suppose have some merit I guess
But this:
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3) I can't blame Flacco for this. When you're playing for the biggest trophy of your life, you do whatever you can. However, it would have been dumb for Flacco to do it without knowing the possible consequences.
You don't blame Flacco for this? WHAT?
I mean, you are not coming across as a guy that wants players to ignore the rules, but come on. Actions like this can't be condoned at all.. Thoughts of actions like this are just nuts. Ozzie better have a little talk with him for that dumb exchange. That should come up when they sit down to do his next contract.
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Actions like this can't be condoned at all.. Thoughts of actions like this are just nuts.
I disagree. You do whatever you can within the rules.
If the rules state that tackling him would be a 15yd penalty (or 1/2 the distance) and that it would not be a touchdown, then it would be the prudent thing to do (assuming no chance of your STs getting him at that point). Give your defense a chance to win the game.
The rules were that it'd be a touchdown anyway though.
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it's like Wisconsin forcing a rule change to the kickoffs a few years ago. they just kept onsiding it out of bounds because they figured out a loophole in wasting time that way (believe it was against Illinois).
here it is (it was Penn State):
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=2652043
Someone was telling me about the final plays in the game the other day, that John Harbaugh told his guys to hold on the play where they took a safety on purpose, because what does it matter if you hold on a play where you're trying to do that anyway. If you can waste a few extra seconds, all the better.
Heads up, and maybe they will somehow figure out a way to get that out of the game.
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and during the tackle dislocated his shoulder, requiring surgery, couldnt finish the game and distroying any leverage he would have for Free Agency, & they award SF with a TD.....Now thats funny
It was the last play of the game.. there was no more game to finish... all the rest of it would be funny as hell. 
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Someone was telling me about the final plays in the game the other day, that John Harbaugh told his guys to hold on the play where they took a safety on purpose, because what does it matter if you hold on a play where you're trying to do that anyway. If you can waste a few extra seconds, all the better.
Heads up, and maybe they will somehow figure out a way to get that out of the game.
Why should they try to get that out of the game? (I'm asking even though I advocated ways to enforce the penalty like, put 10 seconds back on the clock and give 15 yards)... but the intentional foul is a big part of basketball... if you have the ball with 8 seconds left and I'm up by 3, I let you in bound the ball, dribble for a few seconds then foul you on purpose, let you take the 2 free throws and take my chances that way... in baseball they intentionally walk people all the time... so why, in football, should intentionally holding somebody because it benefits you, be that much worse?
Me personally? I don't care either way. The game is over for the most part anyway. I mean yea there's a chance that maybe the jar the ball loose on the inentonal safety, or Cal/Stanford happens on the following play, but just like I said when Schiano was having his guys go at OL's legs in victory formation, the damn game is over.
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LOL Pretty funny article. Thing is, Flacco's plan would only have worked if Ginn was running up the sideline in front of the Ravens' bench. There's no way Flacco would have been able to run down Ginn once he's running full-steam.
I'd guess he was mainly joking... can't imagine he'd be actually serious about jumping on the field to tackle someone.
I don't know if he was joking...he was just talking crazy talk a few seconds from winning the Superbowl.
If it was the Browns in that position I'd be talking about running on to the field to make the tackle. That was pure adrenalin talking.
Watch the video...he is completely serious
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Why should they try to get that out of the game? (I'm asking even though I advocated ways to enforce the penalty like, put 10 seconds back on the clock and give 15 yards)... but the intentional foul is a big part of basketball... if you have the ball with 8 seconds left and I'm up by 3, I let you in bound the ball, dribble for a few seconds then foul you on purpose, let you take the 2 free throws and take my chances that way... in baseball they intentionally walk people all the time... so why, in football, should intentionally holding somebody because it benefits you, be that much worse?
I am in complete agreement. At the professional level, you should know the rules and use them to obtain any advantage you can. If committing a penalty will enable you to win a championship, you'd be foolish not to do it. The intentional holding was smart football. I don't fault Flacco at all for considering tackling Ginn, if he felt it meant the difference between being a champion or an also ran. (The rules didn't support his train of thought, though.)
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Birk: "Why can't you?"
Flacco: "I will -- I'm going to."
That would have been fun to watch.
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Birk: "Why can't you?"
Flacco: "I will -- I'm going to."
That would have been fun to watch.
The guys on PTI said it would have been the greatest happening in sports history (in terms of shocking, crazy and just plain awesomeness).
Think about the chaos and panic that resulted from the replacement refs call in that Seachickens and Packers ending....this would be 7 million times worse/bigger.
EVERYONE watching would all say in unison, "WTF!"
Had I known this was a slight possibility, I would have been wishing for it like I've never wished for anything before. The Ravens players run onto the field to cheat, Flacco gets blindsided breaking his collarbone in the process, all Hell breaks lose, the refs award the TD and those purple weenies would have to sulk back to B-more beaten and disgraced?!?!?! I'll take that.
And yes, it's funny he didn't know the rule. I didn't either, that the refs can award the TD if they thought the player would have scored. Even if the refs didn't think he was going to score, the game wouldn't have ended on a defensive penalty...so the 9ers would have run another play.
Man, that would have been great.
Sooooo...do I think less of Flacco? Nah, he was caught in the moment, his brain was thinking too fast and didn't really know the rule. No big crime here.
Funnist part was Birk saying why dont you go do it...LOL...
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Actions like this can't be condoned at all.. Thoughts of actions like this are just nuts.
I disagree. You do whatever you can within the rules.
If the rules state that tackling him would be a 15yd penalty (or 1/2 the distance) and that it would not be a touchdown, then it would be the prudent thing to do (assuming no chance of your STs getting him at that point). Give your defense a chance to win the game.
The rules were that it'd be a touchdown anyway though.
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it's like Wisconsin forcing a rule change to the kickoffs a few years ago. they just kept onsiding it out of bounds because they figured out a loophole in wasting time that way (believe it was against Illinois).
here it is (it was Penn State):
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=2652043
Then I guess Cheating is ok with you then as long as the penalty isn't too tough
Even worse than the cheating angle, I'm kind of disappointed that Flacco is apparently stupid or arrogant enough to think he's the first to ever think of doing this kind of thing. Did he really think it was a viable idea without game-changing consequences? This guy's too dumb to get $20M a year.
it's not cheating. that's the point. it is playing within the rules to bend things to your advantage.
if the rules state that it was a 15yd penalty, then he SHOULD have tackled Ginn if the situation warranted. it's either lose the Superbowl or give your defense a chance at winning the game.
of course, that is why the penalty is to award the TD.
You could also phrase it that Flacco is a fiercely competitive QB, 6 seconds away from a super bowl victory, stuck on the sidelines, looking for any other way he can contribute to a victory.
I would be surprised if Flacco was the only guy to ever consider this, I am sure it happens a lot in situations like this.
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it's not cheating. that's the point. it is playing within the rules to bend things to your advantage.
Let me get this right, it's not Cheating? Ok, I'll buy that, it's not cheating. But it IS breaking the rules. Wanna tell me it's not breaking the rules?
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if the rules state that it was a 15yd penalty, then he SHOULD have tackled Ginn if the situation warranted. it's either lose the Superbowl or give your defense a chance at winning the game.
So, it's ok to break the rules if the penalty isn't to stiff?
Flacco should know better than to even suggest that kinda action. Ozzie needs to have a chat with that young man.
If nothing else, he should at least go over what the penalties for certain actions are.
What Flacco proposed was no different than taking a hold or PI on a receiver that's about to blow by a db, and that's considered a smart play. How is this different?
I think the DB actually belonging on the field makes it different.
I feel like you're asking me to explain the difference between misdemeanor and felony. The DB in your example is on the field as a defensive player. A strategic decision to take down a receiver breaking free is NOT the same, or even analogous, to interferring with a play on the field of play of which you are not even a participant. What Flacco proposed is no different than a fan jumping out of the stands and running on the field to tackle a punt returner - ie; assault and battery.
Granted it's a more severe penalty, but felony assault? These aren't the Saints and there's no intent to injure. Using the idiosyncrasies of the rulebook to win games is part of the NFL, and the ones that did it best are considered innovative geniuses. I'm in no way considering Flacco in that light, but I would not have held that act against him.
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What Flacco proposed was no different than taking a hold or PI on a receiver that's about to blow by a db, and that's considered a smart play. How is this different?
So you would condone that kinda thinking as HC of an NFL Team>?
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What Flacco proposed was no different than taking a hold or PI on a receiver that's about to blow by a db, and that's considered a smart play. How is this different?
So you would condone that kinda thinking as HC of an NFL Team>?
As a last ditch effort with the game on the line?.....hell yes. Just as I had no problem with Harbaugh having his players deliberately hold on that intentional safety. It's not cheating, they're committing the infraction and accepting the penalty. As others have said, this is no different than a deliberate foul in a basketball game. It's the coaches job to win games. The NFL meets every year to determine the fairness of the rules and decide penalties for violations. If they deem something unfair or unsafe, they can increase the penalty.
Would it be unreasonable to think that Flacco should know that the infraction he was considering would result in the opposing team being awarded a touchdown? Because I know that ... I would think a participant in the actual game would know it too. In that situation, that's not a strategy, its suicide.
It's pretty obvious he didn't know, and you're right...he should have. That would have been pretty funny if he actually did it.
People 50 years from now would be reading about "Flacco's Boner" ... LMAO.
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I feel like you're asking me to explain the difference between misdemeanor and felony.
In a way, he is. What is the penalty for either? Is one a lot worse than the other? Then the crime must be a lot worse... What is the penalty for dragging down a WR when you know you are beat? What is the penalty for running on the field and tackling a guy?
People want to argue that its ok to knowingly break the rules sometimes but not other times. As long as breaking the rules, even if you get caught, is to your benefit, people are always going to be willing to do it... that's why you try to set up rules so that it's not to your benefit.
For example, that's why they made the intentional foul rule in basketball, 2 shots and you get the ball back.. because they didn't want defenders hammering guys on a break away just to stop one easy basket and give the guy 2 shots... and it happens a lot less than it used to...
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People 50 years from now would be reading about "Flacco's Boner" ... LMAO.
Considering his nickname was Joe Flaccid*...yes, that's very funny.
*It's not his nickname on this board, thankfully. And I think it's very dumb anyway. But that was his nickname on this video game message board I frequent (www.gamefaqs.com - I'll check in there maybe once a day as opposed to dozen or more times here. I'll go to see what's being talked about on a national message board....and every once in a while, read about video games).
This is awesome. I would have died laughing if Ginn were going to break it along the bench and Flacco just decked him. Would have probably been the greatest moment in super bowl history.
LOL ... you chide one comparison, and then counter with an equally over-the-top comparison ... a player on the field, versus a guy trespassing onto the field from the stands.
The point he's trying to make is moot anyway. He's saying that *IF* the rule was that was only a 15 yard penalty, it would be a very "smart" penalty to take ... akin to a DB dragging down a WR if he got beat on a big play. Of course the game of football realized DECADES ago that this would be an extremely cheap and easy penalty to commit ... not to mention a much worse degree of rule breaking ... so they made the rule so that the refs would award an automatic score if somebody tried to do that. The penalty already fits the crime.
Actually the rule doesn't say "they will" award a score. It says they "may". It actually leaves the penalty very much in the hands of the officiating crew.
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"Palpably Unfair Act. A player or substitute shall not interfere with play by any act which is palpably unfair. Penalty: For a palpably unfair act: Offender may be disqualified. The Referee, after consulting his crew, enforces any such distance penalty as they consider equitable and irrespective of any other specified code penalty. The Referee may award a score."
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This is awesome. I would have died laughing if Ginn were going to break it along the bench and Flacco just decked him. Would have probably been the greatest moment in super bowl history.
and one of the dumbest.. talk about a headliner for a blooper reel LOL
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Actually the rule doesn't say "they will" award a score. It says they "may". It actually leaves the penalty very much in the hands of the officiating crew.
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"Palpably Unfair Act. A player or substitute shall not interfere with play by any act which is palpably unfair. Penalty: For a palpably unfair act: Offender may be disqualified. The Referee, after consulting his crew, enforces any such distance penalty as they consider equitable and irrespective of any other specified code penalty. The Referee may award a score."
You want to talk about memorable, forget Awarding SF the score, what if they didn't?