Before the season, I had three keys to the season. Coaching, QB play, and Chemistry. Thus far, the coaching and qb have been dreadful. Chemistry has seemingly not been an issue. Will it be if the team drops to 1 and 3 w/a loss to a division rival?

Do the Browns have to win this game? Or do you think they can lose it and still regroup and play well enough to win the division or make it as a Wildcard?

Personally, I am torn on this. Logically, 1 and 3 isn't terrible and there is a ton of time to come back. On the other hand, after all the hype, the inexperience across the roster, a first year HC, a QB struggling to read coverages, and some volatile personalities makes me pray that we win this game because it might get ugly if we lose.

Now..........consider if we win. We will be 2 and 2 and tied for first place in our division. We will have just beaten the team we are tied w/on their home turf. Either the Steelers or Bengals will be 0 and 4 and the other will be 1-3.

We would get some much-needed confidence back and winning this could be the fuel that propels us toward a successful season.

Either way..........I think this is a huge game for the Browns.

If we want to make some noise for the playoffs and be a legit contender this year, yes it’s a must win. If we’re satisfied with gelling and learning as a team, then I guess not so much.

To me, this team should be a winning team already. The expectations should be to win games like this ... so, we’ll see if we’re ready

I wouldn't say this was a 'must win' game if it wasn't for the gauntlet of tough opponents we have coming up. Sure, we played the Rams tough, but we have a whole bunch of opponents coming up that are either very good, or are starting out the season with a lot of momentum. I think the Ravens are more beatable than their last few games would suggest... we just have to not beat ourselves.

I think with some of the personalities we have in the locker room, plus with some of our guys (in)ability to handle the media, it's going to be important to start getting some momentum and build off that. A win vs the Ravens would go a long way to starting that off.

I won't go as far as to say it's a must win. But it's certainly a game where we need to see a marked improvement on the O side of the ball.

I also can't say it isn't a must win. We have a lot of ego's in the building and it could be a turning point in some infighting and seeing the blame game come into play. That would be a total disaster.

A loss could simply mean another step in the process or it could cause a compete melt down. I have no way of knowing how that may turn out.

I'm thinking it is. To be the best in the division, you have to beat the other teams. 2 games below .500 isn't a good look.

Absolutely this is a MUST WIN game. It's a divisional opponent and they are currently leading the Division and have set the current standard. We have yet to put together a great three-phase game and have underachieved in several aspects. It also closes out the first 1/4 of the season and will set us tied w/Baltimore, yet above them due to beating a divisional opponent.

ALSO, it is a must win for our team morale, spirit & psyche. I think last week was a great test, but this is an essential win. If we lose it could be damaging to our spirit and the outside world and media will be relentless in their criticism.

It's not just a must win but the offense has to play well.

If we win and the offense plays like crap I don't think it will mean very much.

Very huge. A loss takes us to 1-3 with a trip to the west coast to play a Niners team headed off their bye.

It might not put a nail in the coffin, but a loss then a loss to SF would.

We don't even need to go there. Win the friggen game this week and head to SF ready to make a roll.

Time to start stacking wins.

In life we don't get many chances to make a good first impression. I think a Win against Baltimore by a Browns team that looks like it's supposed to puts us right where we should have started the season. Baker (and Freddie) need to start building credibility towards what they are trying to do here.

You flub your home opener
You squander a chance to beat one of the top teams in the league
If you blow it against what looks to be your only real competition in the Division and they look like they can be exposed....

Our personalities are too big not to talk about. All the negative noise will just get louder and I don't think this team will be able to block it out over the long haul.

We need to play like it is. It's obviously not a "must win" in terms of making the playoffs, there is plenty of season left... but in terms of the things mentioned such as establishing ourselves as a credible contender, lightening the criticism around the team, building confidence and momentum for the next couple weeks, etc... it's pretty darn important.

The reason I say it’s a must win game is because we have to prove we can beat good teams.

I mean I see people talking about how tough our schedule is throughout the threads.....umm...good teams are suppose to be able to beat other good teams. So far, How many teams with winning records has baker beaten?

Not 'must win' as in the season is over, but must win to stop the wrist slitting definitely.

Zero.

Now would be a good time to get #1

I'm calling this a "Must be willing to adapt" game. So far, we haven't seen the adjustments made on the offense necessary to counter the disguised zone scheme/heavy pressure defenses that have been used to thwart the "Must put on a grand show" offense we've been unsuccessfully and stubbornly sticking to. These adjustments could have and should have been made at halftime week 1. So if Freddie and Co. don't come out this week with a plan to get rid of the ball quickly and into the hands of the play makers, and get Chubb a head of steam by handing off from under center, then Kitchens may be just too stubborn for his own good, and that could cost him his job.

Getting rid of the ball quickly, and relying heavily on the run game is football 101 when trying to protect a young QB, get him into a rhythm, and open up the field. It's not rocket science yet Freddie is acting like he's never heard of the concept. I'm sick of watching the offense stumblefrak around when they coud be picking up first downs instead. You only need 3.4 yards per play, yet Freddie is calling plays like we need to get to the end zone in four plays or less. Enough is enough. If he can pull his head out of his ass and get these very simple concepts working, then we just may win this game. If not, then we're in for a long season and probably looking at a new HC at the end of it. Again. So yeah, this is definitely a "Must be willling to adapt" game.

Not a must-win.

Too early for that.

We'd be two games behind the Ravens, but with plenty of season left. Not worried about steelers or bengals. Things could change but this division is looking to be a two-horse race.

It is however, a huge game that would be a confidence boost, put us in first place and maybe jump-start a run.

I'm quickly falling back into my negative I don't care about the results of the game mindset. So I can only imagine how the mindset of the team is.

I agree that this is a must win, not for just the playoffs. But for the culture change of not having the losing mentality anymore which we were getting rid of last year. It feels like we have taken so many steps back in that department, so to me this is a very important game.

Another loss and that oh well here we go again, we're gonna lose again mindset creeps back in just a bit closer.

Totally agree...I wo think it would've been more a must win if it was at home.. lot of season left... but it would be huge if we win

This is a statement game, vers.

I think no team actually knows who they are until about half the season is played. If we can get to 5-3 or even 4-4 after 8 games, I think we will be just fine. Is this a must game. I do not think so.

"MUST WIN" is the most debated term in football it seems like :-P

To me this is the definition of "MUST WIN": "Do you have to win this game or be eliminated from the playoffs?"

And the answer is no. In THEORY, we could lose this week and still end up 13-3 at the end of the season.

However, I agree it's HUGELY important in terms of gaining confidence, keeping the media off our backs, preventing drama, etc.

Add to that the fact that it would be a HOME LOSS for the team we are most competing against in our division, a division WIN for us, and an AFC win for us, and I'd say it would change our playoffs chances by a margin of 15-20%.

So for instance, say we are currently a 40% chance to make the playoffs, it would change us to a 55-60% chance and a loss would drop us down to 20-25% chance, so it's VERY IMPORTANT BUT NOT 'MUST WIN'.

Every game is a must win game when you only play 16 games in the regular season.

I don't think our goal should change. We've gotta win our division to make the playoffs.

In that, I'd say this is a very important game. not a must win (i've seen the chargers go through bad beginnings of seasons and come back to win their division), but it's a very very important game.

The regular season goal is the regular season goal. Win the division. We win the division, we don't need to worry about all the other teams. In general, the teams in our division all play the same schedules, so that's our measuring stick.


We win this game, we're 2-2 with the tiebreaker over the Ravens. We've got momentum going into Monday Night vs the 49ers.

So, it's the most important game of our season so far. That's for sure

I kinda agree. Need to at least look at it that way...

Especially division games.

so first part, they're talking about lamar and his comments about running. the second half of the video, they are talking about what baker mayfield said about wanting this season to be easy.



i really dont like Nick wright that much, but he might have a point.

Interesting.

Or at least 'must winnish", I guess. I have never put much stock in post-loss speechifying such as admitting to needing a different call, need to see the tape, so much to learn here, this could be a real catalyst, we need to move on, we practiced well, and we battled.

I would rather see a ferocious focus on winning and handing out punishment rather than a casual shrug and "I gotta do better." Do better while you can. Snappy explanations in interviews after we lose are not your job. More touchdowns. Fewer interviews and commercials. Script more deeply. And differently. Our losses have seemed to me to be agonizingly similar.

Every game is a must win. If it’s not, it’s time to get out of the game.

We really need a win .... its too early in the season to declare it a must win IMO ... especially in this division ... its not very good again this year IMO but i’d rather not fall 2 games and the tiebreaker behind the rats regardless of how early in the season it is ....

It’s gonna be interesting to say the least .... IMO this is one of the most unpredictable games we’ve had in years ...

LETS GOOOOOOOoooooooooooo

For the fans it is a must win. Most are already throwing the team under the bus. If they lose this week, it will be full mutiny

Is This a Must Win Game?


Captain Obvious

I think we are about to find out what the Browns are made of.

I have always thought teams that consistently win in the NFL are the teams that grind the best. Never give up or never give in, this is truly gut check time.

I also think the Ravens are made of paper, I really do LJ may have had success against suspect defenses he is about to see the 1st real defense of the season so will see if he is truly improved or just has padded numbers because he played against horrid defenses. I think the later is likely true.

This isn't a must win but its awfully close to a must. It sure would go a long ways towards making everyone on the team/fans/coaches feel a lot better about where we are going.

It's time to grind.

To remain relevant in the division, for the foreseeable future, yes it is

J/c

I thought we’d “find out a lot about our team” against the Jets after the embarrassment against the Titans ... and we played like crap offensively.

Then I thought we’d find out a lot about Baker and the O after TWO poor performances and on SNF at HOME ... and we played like crap again.

Lol, at this point I don’t think the offense is capable of showing us anything that would warrant us to win at Baltimore

This is the first must win game of the Mayfield era.. A loss tomorrow and I see it getting out of control. This team really is lacking leadership. From both the QB and HC position. That doesn't fare well

I think a win here completely changes the narrative. I think it's a huge game for us. If we win, all is right w/the world.

+1

I can't see us winning after the latest Mayfield social media fisticuffs, and I take back saying the Browns are a good bet at +7. I agree with lead....this team is lacking some serious leadership. Focus is in all the wrong places.

You two seem to agree a lot

I don't think Baker's tweet has anything to do w/this game. I do think he needs to shut up and concentrate on football, but that tweet wasn't a huge deal.

I will also say that Browns fans deserve better.

This has to be the most loyal bunch of fans on this planet.

Yet we keep getting fed a poop sandwich. Then we get our hopes up, only to get another poop sandwich.

It's maddening.

Summary, The Browns don't look like a team that's ready to win this week, to me.

Question,
set up

I was watching the SNF packers last week and the Gbay offense looked so familiar, (I hated it) I don't think it fits the afc north, I think the Browns were running the exact same O, each play after play looked like one I've seen Baker run this year with the Browns,
And what I keep feeling they need to devolve from, back to normal looking plays to have a chance in afc north divisional matchups.

I feel the trash packer offense, was evident in the late season loss the Browns had to the Ravens in 2018.
and the result was needing a TD and failing to tie late in the game.

The BRowns last week's game, same looking O, same result, Browns need a TD late to tie, and fail to get it.

The Packers on SNF, same result, the Packers needed a TD late in the game, to tie the score and fail to get it.

I guess I don't have a question except what do you think about that.

So Mayfield posted some stuff on Instagram, and now we're going to lose because of it? Saying this team lacks leadership is a joke IMO. They are playing below their talent, but leadership has nothing to do with that.

Green Bay must be lacking leadership. They threw 4 passes from the one yard line and the last was a INT. Better check Roger's Instagram to see if he posted something that took away from his play.

So glad many have knowledge of what goes on in the locker room, while never stepping foot in it. When I hear the players talk, they all see Baker as a leader, and say it often. It's wishy washy fans and the media that start the narrative.

You don't know that. There is a good chance that it might be a real issue.

Nobody knows, but I don't see how people are claiming that there is none. The team seems tight, I just think it has to take time to become consistent when dealing with so many changes.

There is also a chance that it's not an issue, till someone shows me something besides some stupid Instagram posts as proof I won't believe it's a problem.

I* find it hard to believe that Baker is focusing more on social media than football. Players talk crap on social media all over the league, thinking that would effect their play on the field is ludicrous IMO.

Browns can't cover 'cuz Baker said AB froze his feet??

Disagree, Rish. I like the +7 quite a bit. Likely throw some on the ML for the Browns as well, but I certainly took the +7.

Not one person has said such a thing. What some are suggesting is that all the questions that are being asked by the media become a distraction for the team.

I can guarantee you that almost every coach who has ever lived that was worth a damn never encouraged their players to trash other people in the media. Keep making excuses for poor behavior.

It's deeper than that.

I don't believe the focus is where it needs to be. I would be uncomfortable putting my money on this team because of that. I'm tired of hearing Baker talk and not deliver. One of the reasons I don't believe he's delivering is because he's focused on things he shouldn't be focused about.

He's lacking confidence also. His Instagram post that this whole thing off was him trying to convince himself he can still play.

I'm smart enough, I'm good enough, and doggone it, people like me.

Maybe you should read this:
https://www.brownszone.com/2019/09/25/fr...omment-asinine/

I don't care about articles.

I care about wins.

When we start getting some of those I'd be happy to read articles about them.

So, you only care about what Baker has to say when it fits your negative narrative?

Because that article is full of Baker and Freddie talking about focusing on the right things.

But by all means you, and Vers, and all the other haters can keep crying.

So why isn't he doing it then?

If you read the article it tells you.

That article is just a regurgitation of their pressers this week.

The same presser where Mayfield displayed stubbornness, a reluctant accountability, and again treated the media like crap. While not performing on the field.

What was I supposed to get out of that article again?

That his focus is fine.

Yall are hopeless. In more ways than 1.

Whoopty hell!!!!

Lose this game and become irrelevant.

I’m slanging hyperbole, and a little truth

What were they going to say when called on it?

"We're sucking right now and we don't know what to do!"

Of course not. They're saying what they're supposed to be saying. Now just show us rather than talking about it. When did talk start meaning more than actions?

No if we lose and knock out jackson for the rest of the season
we win the division

I think this is a must win (at this point of the season) This team has under performed thus far. A win against the Ravens (whom look legit) will help propel this team, and shut off a lot of negative glow...

However...I don't think much will change from the past couple weeks, even though they like to talk that they are going to fix things...I think we will struggle again.

[quote Keep making excuses for poor behavior.][/quote]

Keep searching for negativity towards him.

See it was time to grind and the Rats ended up in the grinder.

Definitely made the necessary adjustments.

To answer ... YES it was a must win

Not sure how this happened because baker was clearly not focused. After all he tweeted some crap with brown earlier in the week and there is no way he could have gotten his focus back. And dang, he has made a couple of commercials too. Fortunately our qb and our team and our coach have way more faith in themselves than some of the “fans” on this board.

Agreed D4Life, it was definitely a must win, 1-3 is never a good place to be.

I really hope today was a must win, because we matched up well, and we passed our gut check. It had nothing to do with tweeting or other stuff mentioned about BM earlier this week. Realistically, it was good enough when it counted, an maybe a wee bit more. Sometimes, that is the most you can ask for, and all you can expect. Some of this other noise is just knitting distractions. Are we better off without it? Sure. Did it impact meaningfully today. Simply no.

Get ready. More on the way!

They need to earn the faith.

They took a big step today.

This was a huge win for the Browns. I really do think it was a must-win game and the team made a big statement. We beat them pretty bad on their home field.

The season looks entirely different now than it did before the game. This game was fun to watch.

I agree.

It's like the talking head said...we are a young team that needs to gel.

Well, we did a lot of gelling today. Our future opponents might be a bit concerned.

It was easy to forget that we were in their house when we whooped them. Our fans showed up.


I don't remember what I said earlier in the week in this thread. I don't know about the whole "must win" thing so early in the season (but I think I'm just getting caught up in silly semantics).

We waxed a divisional opponent that usually embarrasses us... in their house. They had all the momentum going into the game, and we had silly instagram/twitter feuds. With us getting such a convincing win, this is such a huge win for this team. I gotta rewatch, as I was mostly following around on the radio and/or online tracker. Sounds like we came a long way in terms of scheme, execution, and chemistry. That's almost better to hear than the final score.

I think we learned we could close out a game against a good team.

This is a "won" game.

I truly hope this is a sign of better things to come and I believe it is. Go Browns.

The next 3 games are the buzzsaw.. yes this was a must win game.

Travel to the 9ers as they're getting off their bye on a monday night. If that doesn't spell B-U-Z-Z-S-A-W then I don't know what does.

Then they get the Hawks at home.

Then they get a bye...

But come back against the fricken Patriots. (They have 2 weeks to prepare) There is no reason why they shouldn't come out and play inspired ball after the bye.

The next 8 after that are all winnable games. There is no excuse not to go 7-1 through the back half of this schedule. Steelers are without Ben... Miami is trash, Bengals are trash, Broncos are a tough 0-4 team. and they get a Home against the next Division contender.

Keep an eye on how well Balt does against the NFC West as that's gonna be the deciding factor.

Winning at Baltimore is a statement game.

I still say 10-6 can win the division and I still think 11-5 is where they might land.

Yesterdays big win had to ruin a few peoples day.

Let’s also not forget: the Ravens go to Pittsburgh next week, so one of them will lose. They also play the Rams, Patriots, 49ers, etc. themselves

Lol

This is what u decide to share after yesterday ...

Says way more about who U are than who your mocking ...

One of the most beautiful sights was seeing all the empty seats as we kicked an extra point later in the game. That was a special picture of real beauty worth at least a thousand words IMO. That, and seeing Harbaugh's tortured expression on the sidelines.

I just never seem to get tired od beating a Harbaugh like a drum. I think its is the way they squirm and grimace. I want to do it again this year when we are at full strength. And BM under center for some snaps seemed a good part of the mix.

It's ok. This is the same guy that wants free handouts for his kids because they live in the bay area.

And I don't mind eating crow. And I don't take back what I said. I did not have any confidence at all in these guys. Baker is still insecure and immature. Stop talking and start winning. Keep doing it. One game doesn't change that message.

And Baker still has a long way to go. Yesterday was much more about Freddie than Baker. I'm starting to think we may have underestimated Freddie. I think there's a method to his madness that we may see play out over the long haul.

I think that's not an accurate statement at all. Freddie and the play calling was compounding the Baker struggles in games 1, 2 and 3 ... they were both at fault. In this game vs the Ravens they both improved. Both deserve some credit. It's very much a symbiotic relationship.

I agree .. and I’ll also add that the Ravens D was ripe for the picking. Their secondary is by far the worst one we’ve seen ... and they put ALL of their effort into stopping OBJ ... so we had easy pickings to basically everything else we did

Not sure I agree. I think the two are pretty much wrapped around each other like DNA..

Freddie called, what appeared to be, a better game.. Baker hung in the pocket and made short throws to move the chains and stay on the field.. this allowed us to open things up and run the triple reverse pass and the handoff to Juice to run the option and things like that.. Baker even took off running once, it wasn't very effective, but at least he showed he was willing to do it.

Overall I think what we are seeing is the coming together of the Monken offense, the Freddie play calling, and Baker producing... all getting more comfortable in the system and what is working and what isn't... and how it can be adapted to a specific game plan every week. The next phase is defenses are going to figure out what's working and try to take it away.. Monken and Freddie have to be able to anticipate that and game plan around it..

Not to be argumentative, but cfrs posted a stat about our personnel packages on the Offensive Scheme thread. In the first 3 games, we ran 12 Personnel a total of 24 times. We matched that total in yesterday's game. That is a schematic adjustment.

Also, Trent Green brought up how Freddie really wanted to emphasize getting the ball out of Baker's hand quicker yesterday. For the most part, that was accomplished. I think this is also a schematic adjustment.

The above is not a knock on anyone. I just think Freddie deserves some credit for making adjustments.

I don’t think you guys are “hearing” what he’s typing .. *L* ... its so hard to communicate on here ....

I think i may know where he’s headed with this .... but i’ve been wrong before ... more than once ... *L* .... so I’ll let him explain ...

RISH

I know u gots some thick skin brother .... you’ve went a few rounds with me before and neither of us has a weak chin .... *LOL* ...

Freddie took steps last game as far as play calling went and bake getting the ball out of his hands quicker ... yesterday he added to that and went all in with it if u know what i mean ..

He cut down on his STUPIDNESS quotient also ... against the lambs i wondered if he was letting Hue manage the clock for him ... *L* ... he did 3 or 4 dumb ass things against the lambs (not clock related .. that’s just what the reminded me of) ... this week ... going for two was DUMB AS HELL ... and U (no clue if u will) nor the sashiettes can convince me other wise ...

I think he did one other really dumb thing IMO ... can’t remember it ...

Freddie has his first good day at the office IMO ... lets see if he can heed his own advice and string some good days together ...

It's not a big deal, and I didn't really feel like explaining it because I'm on my phone, but I'll give it a shot.

Freddie ran a physical camp. He stated over and over again to only focus on the next play. He sounded less than happy after both wins this season, including yesterday. He continues to make adjustments weekly. His defensive coordinator continues to draw up brilliant game plans. He doesn't panic and is the same person day in and day out. His team completely out physicaled one of the traditionally most physical teams on their home field when the Browns could have easily rolled over.

My point is maybe he knows what he's doing. Maybe there's a method to his madness. Maybe he's showing us exactly what he said would happen...that if you do the things he asks you to do, then each week you'll be playing better than you were the week before.

Everything he's said has happened so far. I just think we may be witnessing a culture change, and that was why I said it was more about Freddie.

He had to go for two yesterday. It's simple math. Being up 12 or 13 still requires the Ravens to have to score 2 TDs. If your opponent has to score at least 2 TDs to take the lead or tie, you have to take the opportunity to go up by 14 in case they do. Their behavior isn't going to change no matter if you're up 12, 13, or 14.

Ya well .... in football MATH CHANGES a lot ... and there were over 9 minutes left i believe when he did it ...

The fact the math changes means by definition its not simple ... ....

And its not like extra points are automatic anymore ...

In this case IF the math stood the same .... i’d rather force them to make both extra points to beat me rather than have them only need one ...

Key part here being ... IF the math changed ...

Thats the last time i defend U ... *L* ...

Different opinions bro .... i thought it was MORONIC of him .... at least u confirmed your a sashiette ... ...

True, the big difference is that you force them to go for 2 if they want to win vs kicking if they want to play for OT...

Going for 2 didn't bother me at all, I thought it was the right thing to do. What did bother me was the play call and/or the execution.. we weren't even close.

9 minutes left plays a huge role in the equation. That's maybe 2 more possessions each. You have to assume they are going for TDs both times.

And you'll still defend me when you believe I'm right. You're good like that.

Yes, this is still a must win game...

I think coaches get caught up in the "have to go for two" scenarios when they don't need to. The only time you have to go for two is when you need two to tie or take the lead.

Yesterday's game presents a great scenario... we go for two because we're up by twelve and the chart says to go. If we kick the extra point, and score a FG (which we did on our next possession), we're up by 16.

Up by 16 means you CANNOT LOSE with two scores. Failing the 2pt conversion means you can still LOSE with two scores. If you understand math, throw the chart away and go with your gut. If you suck at math, well, better just use the chart lol.

This is absolutely true - big time.

However in an earlier post I am pretty sure you said that most of the credit needed to go to Freddie. . . From where I am sitting, I think Baker also played much better and it was a combination of Freddie's play calling and Baker doing the little things to improve that made the difference. I wouldn't credit one more than the other. I think Baker can be and should be a "great" QB - accurate, decisive and able to read defenses and get the ball to the open receiver ... he didn't do that games 1-3. He was much better at it game 4. I still want to see more.

If you or others are suggesting the improvement was all Freddie - it would seem to imply that Baker's performances in games 1-3 were mostly poor because of the play calling ... and again, while I think that was some of it, I also thought Baker was pretty stinky in addition to the dodgy play calling.

Bottom line - I think they are both improving. If we want to go to the play offs and compete they both need to.

To the poster above talking about how Freddie was not satisfied after the 2 wins - I agree, I do think there is a culture change taking place and I think Freddie knows what the culture needs to be to win. He's not there yet but he took a big step this week and the 40 points and the physicality we played with ... yeah, that's some serious culture change in my eyes.

Anyone else thinking this shtick is old?

Ahh yes .... another one of my favs ... ASSuming .... i’ll take Fate’s ASSumption for all the marbles Alex .... *L* ....

I’ll give u doing it with 9 minutes left is better than when some of the menZas do it like before the half but thats still to much time with all the unknowns ....

Lets leave it at if we were head coaches I’d love to play against u with your going for 2 philosophy ... just as you’d love to play against me cause of mine ...

Dave Ramsey just chimed .... time for a town hall about going to college debt free .... hopefully i’ll learn sumptin ...

I wouldn't rely on Fate's explanation.

It centered around ASSuming we scored another FG.

And I'll add...if it was the first half, I would have disagreed going for 2. Again, time left in the game plays a huge part in this.

You never chase points....Until the fourth quarter.

Actually, it's not, that's just what happened yesterday so I used at as an example. All I'm saying is there is no tried and true chart for what you "must" do. You said he "had to" go for two because we were up 12... I say bullpucky. There are a lot of factors, time of the game is obviously the biggest, flow of the game and the way scoring is trending is a close second.

Watch BB in that scenario, I almost guarantee he takes his free point and turns the other way... Not that he really knows what he's doing.

People get caught up in some crazy "rules" that don't actually exist. There is no predicting what happens in a game with that much time left. Someone else said yesterday that Harbaugh had "no choice" but to go for it on 4th and 3 at his own 30 - 9 minutes left in the game. "If he doesn't try he will lose", or some crazy comment. Yet in another game yesterday 44 points were scored in the 4th quarter. I don't think there was a slide-rule scripting that one with 9 minutes left...

Going for two there was the right call. Tucker wasn't going to miss a convert, we had to make it a 14-point game. I am surprised this is even an issue.

I assumed people figured that being up 12 meant that they could score a TD and 2 FGs to beat us (I think there was still like 9:30 left in the game)

This is where I'm at.

Yet we KNOW its a FACT its not SPECULATION or an ASSumption that we did kick the FG to throw all your ASSumptions out the window ...

AT THE TIME we had no clue how the rest of the game would play out ...

NONE ...

IN THIS CASE kicking the xp was CLEARLY the way to go KNOWING WHAT WE NOW KNOW ...

Yes ... my point is u guys can make all the ABSOLUTES u want ... it doesn’t change the FACT with 9 mins left u have NO CLUE how its going to play out ...

And RiSh and my Canadian friend ...

Your scenario is ASSuming there gonna score two TD’s and were not gonna muster another point ... NEGATIVE NANCY ASSUMPTIONS!!!

Or just for u RiSh .... NEgaiTAVE NAncY AsSomPTanS ...

But that's exactly the way you have to approach it.

It's like playing blackjack. You assume the dealer's hole card is a 10 and you make your decisions based on that to give you the best chance to win.

It's all about giving yourself the best chance to win.

In football what happens is in MY HANDS not left up to an automated card shuffler ...

We just disagree here .... i’m Out ...

Have a good one RiSh ...

IF all of Freddies DUMB ASS DECISIONS turn out like this ... we’ll all be smiling an awful lot ... now .....

LETS GOOOOOOOOOoooooooooo

Lampdogg, its was the right call. Really had the two call all around me. Great job, FK!

For the record, I've never said going for two was the wrong call, I've simply said people make a much bigger deal about it than they need to. And the "they HAVE TO go for two" crowd can pound salt. You don't have to do anything.

Up by 12 is a clear "go for two" on the chart. Statistically though, that option will win you one more game every ten years, at least when that scenario takes place within the final 10 minutes of a game. That's right, making the two point conversion there improves your chances of winning by 0.6%

The NFL talking heads (and fans) go crazy over some pretty silly stuff imo. Think about that 0.6% above and then ponder this...

You're down by 14 points, you score a TD... Do you go for two??

Seems that nobody does. YET, going for two improves your chances of winning the game by 10 percent. Funny to me that everybody looks at you like you're insane if you don't go for two up by 12, yet a decision that carries 16 TIMES the impact is never made in a real game. At least not until BB starts doing it, then it will suddenly be genius... problem is he will have to be down by 14 in an actual game before he reveals his genius lol.

Well, if you are up by 12... and your assumption is that you are going to keep scoring and they aren't... then the decision doesn't matter... you can kick it, you can go for 2, take a knee, doesn't matter. If you are a coach in that situation making those assumptions it is neither a good nor a bad decisions, it's totally irrelevant.

You're one of two fans in here going crazy over it. You've written several essays to that affect. The rest of us are just kind of matter of fact about it.

It's no biggie. The Browns won. That's all that matters.

**this was meant for Fate, not DC.

Harbaugh did and I thought it was a gutsy call. I wasn't aware of the stats but he forced our hand. If he had not gone for 2 (and made it), we would not have gone for 2.. they made it, we didn't. It was a nice swing in their favor. Fortunately, they weren't able to capitalize on it.

I'm glad we won, and made a couple Ravens get in a dispute in their own locker room lol for once it ain't us.

I could be wrong, and theres no source for it. But I think Earl Thomas was playing hurt, as he got beat more than I've ever seen before. And maybe that's why he was mad at Brandon William's for not playing hurt.

I think the adjustments to the scheme are far more interesting on whether or not to go for two. I think that talking about how much this game meant to our season is more interesting, as well.

I am happy w/Freddie for correcting some of the packages and to try to limit the things Baker is weak at.

I also think think this team was walking on the precipice of the season's success or failure. I know that game 4 is too early to put so much importance on a win, but I truly believe we were teetering on staying on solid ground or spiraling out of control.

I'm so happy and thankful the schematic adjustments and how the team rose up and won this extremely important game. I think the season is going to be successful now.

Could not agree more. This wasn't a "must win" because of stats or standings or math.. it was about confidence and the mental attitude and the cohesion of this team going forward...

lmao

I'm going crazy over it??

Nice take bro. I thought it was just an interesting conversation. Sorry I offended you!

If that's the case, maybe Williams did the right thing and Earl Thomas should have also sat. Lol, let them slug it out amongst themselves.

Exactly. we played with 1/4 of our secondary and seemed to do ok. Seems they don't trust their back-ups, if that's the case.