-Trade Baker.

-Fire Freddie

-Trade Myles

-Fire Wilks

-Tank for Tua

-Why was OBJ returning a punt?

Well, that sucked.

----- Crickets -----

Baker mayfield: 8/22, 100 yards, 2 picks, 1 fumble, 36% completion. 13.4 QB rating.

Defense allowed 275 yards rushing.

I really don’t have anything else to add. This was a straight up beat down in every aspect of the game. No one did anything right, except the punter.

- It was a tough game for us just in terms of the schedule. West coast after a tough away game and the 49ers coming off a bye ... tough sledding

- Besides, that ... we laid another egg. We simply aren’t ready for prime time yet. Baker has regressed and our coaching is an atrocity.

- Our OTs were quite bad tonight, as were our LBs.

- Putting a TE on Bosa isn’t wise.

- I’m trying to say that the sky isn’t falling ... but we have a very tough stretch upcoming and don’t seem to be gaining any sort of good identity

The team doesn't handle adversity, off the field or on, or success very well.

Seibert made a kick.

Jamie Gillan looked good.

I thought the field goal block team played well...what did they miss like 3??

Still can go 13-3 and get a playoff bye.

Couldn't watch the game...did we have alot of dumb penalties also?

San Francisco looked like they prepped for a game at 5:30pm, West Coast time. We looked like we prepped for a game at 1pm Eastern time .... on a Sunday.

IMHO, the two biggest indicators of a successful offense are 3rd down % and red zone efficiency. We are near the bottom in both. Hard to establish rhythm, hard to build momentum, hard to win when you suck at those two things...

eh, not as many as you’d think. It was more of just a physical beat down coupled with a downright coaching circus ... they ran circles around us in all regards

My thoughts.

This team has butt loads of talent that isnt being utilized correctly.

Why are they doing all these weird things with OBJ? Why dont we ever blitz?
We arent well disciplined and our playcalling and execution suck.

What on earth is the point of Monken if Freddie is running things? I hate this approach.

The coaches suck. I feel like at the end of last season we werent in the right place to attract the best coaches.

But now with our talent we are.

So I suspect new HC and OC, DC at the end of the year. I also suspect the OL/DL will be addressed in the offseason.

I 100% support our talent. The coaches can go.

Dorsey will get it sorted. Turning around an 0-16 team in 2 years is hard, and yet, we still may limp into the playoffs.

This offseson lets address the coaching and lines. And use the remainder of the season to learn and grow our talents experience.

Baker got sacked in under 3 seconds against a 2 man rush. Whatever they wanted to do, they did... and we put up little resistance. they ran right through countless tackles simply because they wanted it more.

I am the real Optimist.

Seattle is in real trouble next week.

Defense gave up 446 yards of total offense to the 49ers.

OMG!

I hope you aren't serious........

If so, try to get some good sleep and come back with a level head tomorrow. Honestly.



This was one game against a top-notch defense. At the moment, we're 2-3. We're a wildly inconsistent team that has a lot to work on (coaching and players). That being said, we aren't trading anyone and no one is getting fired. We're only one game behind the Ravens.

At the end of the season, we'll evaluate ourselves. If we can become consistent, we'll win our division. Otherwise, we won't.

So, on to the Seahawks..............

Well I remember back in the summer when Bob Wylie said some things and EVERYONE THOUGHT IT WAS SOUR GRAPES!!.. Doesn't seem so sour now!!.. The oline has regressed, plus trading away Zeitler and not replacing him is not looking smart.

Then how is it that the game plan on both sides of the ball was crap!!.. On D, Kyle runs a Zone Read/ =Play action pass game... ALL DAY, even when Kyle was here. WE were not ready as they ran it down our throats!! On Offense, or tackles were horrible... and we did not max protect or slide protections.

Fat Freddy needs to understand that the offense runs through Chubb, not Baker! Baker cannot hold the ball nor is he reading zones well at all.

7 for 55

We need Myles to play like Bosa.

Outcoached outcoached outcoached outcoached

Baker looked bad

Embarassing

Oh yea, we also need a couple of offensive tackles.

j/c:

--Baker has been awful this year. He is a one read qb and holds the ball way too long. He stares down receivers and is unable to throw it away when pressured. Overrated.

--Shanny schooled Freddie. He is the best offensive play caller/schemer in the league. Freddie is not.

--This will make y'all mad, but loved seeing Bosa simulating Baker's flag planing gesture. Screw you Oklahoma!

--I wonder how many times OBJ practiced returning punts. I'm guessing zero. Another panic move.

--How many overthrows did Baker have. Yep, height means nothing.

--The Scottish Hammer and Seibet did their job.

--We complain about our OL, but our OL has more talent than theirs. The difference? Scheme. We were out-coached.

I think Freddie is now taking heat for Baker's shortcomings. I don't agree with that.

It's strange, last year I was surprised if we didn't convert a 3rd and 15. This year every time he passes I fear a pick.

I wonder if any of the greats ever had a stat line like Baker did tonight. The regression we are seeing...I would never have predicted anything close to this after his play last year. This is much more than he's a one read QB or he doesn't know how to read coverages post snap. While those are factors, yes, that's not the whole story. He's even inaccurate to his first read.

I think we need to evaluate after 8 games. If we are 4-4, I think we can win the division.

We are more likely to be 2-6 like I predicted than 4 and 4.

I think he does understand that. But when you are 1-11 on 3rd down conversion, it's hard to stick with or build on the run game.

Not sure what happened between the Rats and the 9ers... what happened to the slants, dump offs... all the things we did to sustain drives which allowed us to stick with the run game...

We go against a better DL, and suddenly we are going to park Baker in the pocket and expect it to work?

- Absolute embarrassment on MNF

- Baker panics and has happy feet, looks like a one read QB. Is he seeing ghosts?

- Greg Robinson got absolutely abused.

- I don't care that SF was coming off a bye, the Browns changed times zones, etc..

- Focused again way too much on getting OBJ involved early instead of what worked in Bal

- Baker and Freddie feel the need to get OBJ involved and distracts from the flow the offense

- Run defense was disgusting

- We looked so slow and fat compared to SF

- Baker needs to protect the ball. It's a real problem.

- Callaway not catching the TD pass at the goal line effectively ended he game.

- Shobert needs paid. Losing a guy like him makes this team worse.

- This team has lots of talent and big name payers, but they can't quit smelling themselves

- OBJ attempting to return the punt was flabbergasting. What was the point?

- Luckily the Browns play in a dreadful division this year.

- Scottish Hammer was great

- Run Chubb more, let Juice be the safety valve, quit worry about OBJ's feelings and enough of the empty sets

- Until the next win....same old Browns.

Your sarcastic post does not make the deserved criticism less warranted. This was a very poorly coached and played game. I’m disappointed after some better play last week. I don’t trust Freddie. I feel like he made some bad decisions in the preseason, and continues to make them. He seems to feel like he is smarter than other coaches in the league with his deferring and such. He’s not. Learn from your mistakes, don’t be arrogant for no reason, and turn this around, Freddie.

Baker is the exact opposite of what he was last season. I don’t know if it’s the scheme, coaching, teams have figured him out, he’s regressed, or all of the above, but he looks terrible. The offensive line excuse is not enough to explain how bad he is playing. From decision making to his physical play, he sucks right now.

We will get more wins against inferior to mediocre teams, but will not beat a good team unless something changes drastically with this team.

While Baker certainly has had his sophomore slumping issues, his coaches and his line sure aren't helping. Kitchens seems content to draw up all these razzle dazzle plays when we can't even execute the basics. He also seems to forget we have a RB that's averaging over 5 yards a carry, and when he does utilize him to get to a 3rd and short, we go empty backfield and pretty much nullify any benefit of the Defense playing against the run.

The Oline also can't seem to hold up for longer than three seconds against a 3 or 4 man rush. Pretty hard to hit targets when the Defense knows your passing, knows they can drop 7 back into coverage, and still get a sack pretty quickly. Baker's playing like he has Tim Couch disease already.

Freddie's press conference was brutal.

I think Baker is fine. The coaching sucks. We have an amateur with no HC experience at HC, who is trying to call plays while overiding the OC.

That will never work, ever. EVER.

Our DC has done an alright job this season, but this game was a fail. He needs to learn how to bring the heat.

We need to bring in some experienced coaches who have a history of success in those roles.

And BTW.. Teams have figured out that you can run RIGHT AT Myles Garrett!! There were times the TE for SFO would set the edge blocking down on Myles and off to the races the RB would go. Also, our inside LBs got handled all day!!

Indeed!

Your prediction may still pan out. Do not give up yet.

I'd rather be wrong.

I agree Jules. I feel like both Baker and Freddy bought into all the hype about them, and haven't bothered to focus on the details to get things right. Rather than trying figure out what things we do well and do it great and figure out what other teams do well and take it away. We just try to get cute with everything.

Hey DC,
Man, Freddy thinks he can go 3 Wrs and just pass it down the field. If so, he should use short passes or even on long passes, use the back as a Safety valve. But Freddy does not do it.. Pass rush getting to you, run a draw with Chubb. Those SFO linemen were just pinning their ears back.

Freddy is over thinking things when teams are giving the Browns alot of short completions.

Of course we can win the division at 4-4, it doesn't mean this team is any good. We are fortunate to play against a junk division right now.

It reminds of Seattle winning their division at 7-9 in 2010-11.

Arians and Bowles would have been a nice pair....

Boils down to dorsey trying to be too cute and not just trying to stick with what worked. No one outside of Berea was giving freddie and OC job let alone HC. We did a pathetic search and didn’t do due diligence to bring someone more credible in here. So this is the result. A career position coach benefiting from game plans and an offense designed by someone else and can’t translate to his own success. All eyes on dorsey imo at this point. What he does will really determine direction. People forget, Dorsey has never hired a HC before so this is new to him

They have the guy that should be our coach.

They have the guy that should be our QB.

God hates us.

I thought it was Baker who wanted Freddie as HC?

I know you're prone to overreacting after a loss, but I tend to agree with you here. I think Dorsey panicked and felt we'd lose Kitchens, when it was more a sum of the parts last year. Kitchens parlayed half a season of success into a HC gig that he looks really unprepared for. Worse yet, he's even wearing the duel HC/OC hats which only a rare few have ever pulled off.

Dude. Why? The "committee" worked for six weeks, interviewed eight candidates and decided on Freddie unanimously. Yet you want to keep riding this narrative to get people riled up. You're smarter than that... and so is everyone else.

We can't score anymore in the red zone. Why?

Absolute garbage in primetime!!! I took a sick day to stay home to watch this, never again.

- maybe give Robinson some help from a te
- run chubb more!!!
- why do other teams have wr’s running open all the time, but we never have any
- our dl was supposed to be great, other than the one sack by garrett, nonexistent
- scottish hammer looked good
- if we truly believe we can win this year, trade for trent williams tomorrow!!!
- you gotta have better pass blocking, don’t know the answer but it’s gotta get fixed
- I don’t think we score next week vs seattle

Baker certainly gave Freddie his vote of confidence. But...

From the Seth Wickersham article...

"Today, Dorsey not only got his preferred coach but also his preferred structure. Kitchens will report to Dorsey, forcing collaboration and eliminating the appeals court to Haslam. Nobody knows if it will matter, given how Haslam operates. But for one day, at least, it feels good to be a Brown. As Dorsey privately told an associate: "I flexed my muscles and got what I wanted."

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/2579...history-collide

If this was any other coach, he would get BBQ'd for all the penalties. But everyone wants to give Freddie a pass. Hell Freddie admitted putting Calloway in too early and Odell in on a whim.

Freddie is a rookie coach that is in over his head. The Browns need to get back to basics and eliminate the stupid mistakes.

I get that you love Baker and will go to whatever length to defend him including losing a friend, but it was reported that Baker wanted Freddie as HC and that Dorsey did everything he could to give Baker everything he wanted.

Whatever............I don't even want to talk to you guys.

He stinks right now and you guys getting on my case doesn't change that.

Just so you know, we ran a ton of plays w/two TEs lined up right beside Robinson.

This part is 100% accurate. We were 100% outcoached. I'm getting LEERY of Freddie Kitchens with every game.

Call Mayfield what you want but the coaching isn't helping him. And he's certainly not overrated. Baker has his issues, I agree, but him playing QB isn't one of them. Calling him a "one read" quarterback is also irresponsible and incorrect.

You may not like this, but anyone loving an opposing defender "showing up" your team's QB under any circumstance isn't rooting for the right team. I'm not mad, that's just disappointing and pathetic.

There were so many coaching issues in this game, I lost count. Baker is still a young quarterback who has plenty to learn. We are doing an awful job teaching him. And Freddie knows it.

OBJ returning punts is a moment of desperation. That's not good. Awful.

We were dominated. After having been dominated 4 weeks ago this is not a good look. Light bulbs need to turn on.

I believe we will still win the division. And I'm worried that could be the worst thing for this team. Things need to change, soon and rapidly.

I expected a loss tonight. The niners are far better than most gave them credit for, but this was just a horrible showing on our part. That's twice in 5 games we've been completely dominated. If people want to blame Baker, that's all fine and well, but it's ok to be wrong... fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me.

Hopefully we are taking notice.

Ohio State is my team and Baker showed them up, so there is that...

Btw...............I could care less what you think.

Just saw on ESPN that Baker held the ball for 3.35 seconds per play. That is totally unacceptable.

Jimmy G was not very good tonight statistically, but he knew to dump it when the rush came. Baker did not. He holds it and rolls into pressure. He's a one-read qb who doesn't have the speed to make plays w/his legs.

Baker held the ball for his worst yet. . . 3.35 seconds per snap. That's almost a full second too long.

Freddie isn't ready!

What happened to our offense from last year?

If it was Todd Haley's offense then GEZZZZZZZZZZZZZ, go back to it!

Our only salvation is that the AFC North Sucks!

We need to get Baker's college coach, Mile Reilly from OK.

I'm starting to have some concerns about our DL and QB coaches.

We've got talent, but I'm not sure what they are being told technique-wise. This isn't Alabama and you can't just out athlete people in the trenches at this level. Jumping outside is not setting the edge.

Baker's regressed. I'm thinking we need to get him under center and help find a rhythm with 3, 5, and 7 yard drops to go with hard play action. The sit in shotgun and wait approach isn't working. He's drifting back from shotgun giving our OTs no chance of pushing guys past the pocket. Run more RPOs where our linemen can be aggressive. Waiting on pass rushers is not their strength. Even Bitonio was getting bullied.

When we've got no rhythm, our offense resembles old white dudes trying to dance. No one's quite sure what the heck they are doing out there.

I know they did but not enough, Bosa was in our backfield all game

Vers,
Part of the reason he holds the ball too long is that Freddie does not provide a outlet pass or a check down on alot of routes. Yes, Baker is having alot of trouble reading zone coverages but the WRs have to know to settle in zones or take the shorter routes.

Think, other than a called screen, the Browns hardly ever throw to a back out the backfield. Our Oline had problem with protection, there are no throws to backs and we wait until our receivers are 10-15 yards down field... = 3.35 seconds.

I rest my case.

I think our qb holding the ball was the bigger problem. All qbs get pressured. Some throw it away. Some throw picks. Some take sacks.

Also 100% correct. Baker will eventually figure it out, but will Freddie?

Let me say again.

WE HAVE A ROOKIE HC WHO WAS NEVER A COORDINATOR. LAST SEASON HE WAS A RUNNING BACKS COACH, WHO SUBBED AS OC AND LET THE PLAYERS INVENT THEIR OWN PLAYS.

HE IS UNQUALIFIED. THIS IS THE PROBLEM.

THE END.

Lincoln Riley

I don't know, bro. I think Baker passes up throwing to open guys underneath and tries to force the ball downfield.


Steve Young did a piece on it before the game and he showed a play where Baker had all freaking day to throw and had open receiver, only to try and make the "Superman" throw to a covered guy in the end zone. He said that doesn't work in the NFL.

I wish that this would be true, but it won't be. You will feel the need to attack me in some lame-ass attempt to defend Baker.

This is the biggest problem. 100% yes.

I'm hopeful he can figure it out. He's got 11 games. If he doesn't, we can't wait and see. Time to go. This is a results based league. You can't waste Baker, OBJ, Jarvis, Chubb, Garrett, etc on a coach who can't produce results.

Yo Fate. Remember when you made fun of me on the Hype thread about this subject? A lot of posts that are similar in nature lately.

If Dorsey allowed the QB to pick his own HC then that isn't good. I like Dorsey. He has brought more talent to this team than the last 10 GM's combined. But he picked the wrong HC. We should have hired BA or maybe just kept Greg Williams. For now, it is what it is and FC will have to go back to the drawing board. He could still pull this out.I'm surely not ready to call for his head yet. We just have to go back to the basics. Playing good defense and running the ball.

I don't know what the D was doing tonight but their game plan sucked. Badly! We stopped the Ratbirds cold but let the Santa Clara Niners kick our butts. Strange.
Shanahan is a very good HC. He has his team playing good football. I thought we would probably lose tonight. I did not think we would get our asses handed to us. We got beat from jump street. I stopped paying attention before halftime. I had it on in the background while I played Mass Effect.

Yo Fate. You feeling me yet? LOL

j/c...

I'll always defend the truth. Just seems like the proper thing to do.

Well, that's encouraging.

"Hate him back, it works for me" Martin Riggs Lethal Weapon

I never advocated the hiring of Freddie. Stop making things up.

I don't agree. I have seen the Baker Boys like Fate get on me about that, but I don't see it as a big negative. Dorsey believed in Baker and he did his best to put him in the best situation to succeed. That is why he traded for OBJ and signed Hunt. It's why he gave him his coach.

What is wrong w/that? I wasn't insulting Dorsey or Baker when I made that claim. I think it makes sense.

The only caveat is if Baker is good enough to warrant such faith?

Frankly, I do not remember.

Are we allowed to have nice things?....

You should have told him...
"Frankly my dear, I don't give a damn!

Feel free to prove your case that i ever attacked you about Baker. More lies.

That isn't what I said. I told Fate on the Hype thread that the fans would turn on Freddie. I wasn't even talking about you.

I am going to ignore you now because it is obvious that you are the one making things up. Good night.

Or maybe Freddie deserves it. He is a crap HC so far.

Like I have said for a long time, Baker's big mouth upsets opponents and it draws unnecessary attention from opponents. There was a reason why the Kansas dudes would not shake his hand and then frustrated him enough where he grabbed his junk in front of a packed stadium and a TV audience. There is a reason why Bosa did what he did.

Or maybe Baker is a crap QB?

Um. Yes. 100% yes.

Anyone watching the first 5 games saying coaching isn't the issue isn't really paying attention to the first 5 games.

Baker is a big boy who can handle some trash talk.

Do you ever go out in public? In Browns gear? To a bar? You will receive about the same trash talk.

Big effing deal. But "OMG HE'S A TARGET!!! PEOPLE ARE TRASH TALKING!!!"

This is football, dude.

Lol a third stringer had a better QBR than mayfield.

All this talent...and he does have time to throw.

And why is baker still throwing these fade away passes rolling to the right?

Kyle Shanahan is an underrated coach.

I'm ok to admit that.

What qualifies Baker Mayfield, a ROOKIE quarterback, to hire the head coach of the Cleveland Browns? I like Baker, but I don't like him that much. I don't like ANY player enough to let one of them make those kinds of decisions. If our GM deferred to a player on such an enormous decision I have a big problem with that. Not enough to fire him, as I really like Dorsey and he's done a magnificent job overall. However, allowing Baker or any other player to hire an HC is a terrible idea. I hope that wasn't the case. In hindsight, we should have hired Williams on a two year deal with the understanding that he keep Kitchens as OC and if he refused then hire BA. Too late now. So the best we can hope for is for FK to pull it out and get it together. We are 2-3. New systems, new coaching staff, new players. The first half was always going to be the worst half. If we can make a surge in the last half of the season who knows what might happen. We have a really really good RB coming back the last 8 games. That will be quite a two headed monster type backfield just in time for the sloppy weather.

He should have been our HC.

Spirit........I am not really arguing w/you. I am just saying that if they truly believed in Baker, it would make sense to give him everything he wants. I am not insulting Baker. I am not insulting Dorsey. It just kinda makes sense. Again, the only caveat is if they overrated Baker.

With better coaching we could be 5-0.

Even if QB is a weakness in anyone's eyes, with the rest of the talent on this team we shouldn't be blown out in 2 of 5 games.

Im shocked how many people want to blame the QB. Actually, not really... there was a lot of hate for Baker before we drafted him.

Tonight should end the silliness that says we have a good OL...because we don't...didn't...haven't...just...no.

its still early in the year and still in the hunt

We lost this game upfront, in retrospect we should have drafted OL first

How much less could you care?

Too much (supposed) talent to let a rookie coach cut his teeth and take his lumps learning by trial and error. You can't keep squads together long enough anymore to allow it. Most people don't learn to drive in a Mercedes. Trouble brewing...

Takeaway #1 for me tonight: Shanahan ran CIRCLES around Freddie. We have the worst HC in the league right now. Heck, even with Wilkes (who KNOWS SF very well) we had no chance. I watched with ENVY of the 49ers offensive scheme and play calling ... truth be told, if we had Shanny as the HC, Baker would look better IMO.

Takeaway #2 for me tonight: We are now in the “concerned” mode when it comes to Baker. He has looked like dog poo since the TB preseason game .. and has gotten worse and worse. No confidence, no accuracy, no rhythm ... he’s being taken to school as well.

The 49ers are a team put together the way the Browns may have thought they were...but last night showed a more realistic view of the Browns.

Do the Browns get to be the type of team that the 49ers are in just one year?...like so many of our fans may have thought?

I say Browns fans have been "SO UNREALISTIC" about where this years team should stack up when it comes to rebuilding for the long term.

The 49ers rebuilt their team IN JUST ONE YEAR!!!...didn't they?

THE CORRECT ANSWER...NO!...no the 49ers went 6-10 finishing in 4th place in their division in 2017, in the first full year under Shanahan.

The 49ers regressed to only 4 wins last season, year number 2 under Shanahan. I'm sure their were many 49er fans that were hoping that Shanahan would be fired.

This year, the third season where the 49ers players are playing under the same coach in the same system, 3 years in a row. The 49ers looked like a team that some Browns fans thought we had in Cleveland.

Once the Browns get to the level where the 49ers are, some ...many of the players presently on this team today, will not be around when the Browns are finally done "rebuiling".

A little food for thought for the short-sighted Browns fans, who had their dreams and expectations shocked back into "reality".

https://mobile.twitter.com/AroundTheNFL/status/1181465080522661888

Baker didn’t shake hands in the beginning of the game apparently

Liked the post, the only issue I have is that Kitchen is not Shanahan...

I was one of the very few who liked Todd Haley...now that he is not here and IMHO it shows..

Others have said it in more or less words, I’ll say it also. More that anything else this was squarely on coaching IMO. Lack of preparation. Lack of mental readiness. They don’t dynamically adjust. They don’t seem to handle adversity well. Other teams know at this point that the way to beat the Browns is through easy confusion and disruption because once knocked off their plan, they don’t recover well and adjust. We’re a classic momentum team. Just don’t let us establish any momentum and we don’t have the wherewithal to quickly pivot.

I am NOT alluding to replacing Kitchens. He should be given every chance to succeed and that means sticking with him through the inevitable black eyes of couple season. He’s still very green. (I do wish we hadn’t hired someone so green but that’s in the past). But a major thing to watch with this team is if, as the season progresses, the team starts coming back from behind, makes things interesting even if still not winning, doesn’t give up, makes adjustments. If they don’t and they still lose badly to good teams, win with pure talent against marginal ones while still blowing the occasional dumb game, then it’s not looking good IMO. It’s about being able to turn when down and break negative momentum. To know when the other teams primary defensive strategy is just pure disruption, shoving a stick in our spokes because we’re simply not a team that adjusts or improvises well. That takes a well led team.

Right now they look poorly led. The game plan was not a good one. There does not seem have been contingency plans or much thought given to what the 9ers were going to do to specifically disrupt them. The 9ers plan seemed to be pretty simple. I cannot believe we simple don’t have the talent to sell out against the run and establish our own run.

Anyway, I could go on but won’t. On to Seattle.

It looks like we have a bad HC. Dorsey made the wrong decision regarding Kitchens.
The OL is bad, especially the tackles.
Baker has regressed. Playing like a rookie.
Have a Jeckle and Hyde team. Looks good one week and bad the next.
Penalties continue to be a problem and the head coach doesn't know what to do about it.

I cant help but wonder if we’d look much better with an experienced HC (like Bruce Arians, Mike Munchak, etc ... just one of the average NFL HC’s) ... I think this team already had too much youth, inexperience, and unknown. Adding a rookie HC (with no experience) might just be too much for us to overcome this year

I stopped watching in the 3rd. It was too hard to stomach.

I will add that our tackling was putrid. Putrid. We were making contact short of the 1st down but SF plowed on to get the first. Multiple times.

It seemed the game was over when Calloway batted a TD into a pick. That was a score, at the end of a fairly good drive that would have pulled us close. Instead it is SF ball on the other side of the 50.

I think 5 games in to the season is way early to make statements that our coach is bad. He may end up being that, but now isn't the time to think that.

They were abused all night. SF lived in our backfield and even got a sack rushing TWO! How anybody can defend the OL tonight is mind boggling. That crap performance wasn't just due to Baker holding the ball too long. He was holding it because he was running for his life. I'm not absolving Baker. He could have done a much better job throwing the ball away or dumping it off.

You mean like Greg Williams. Although I kept my mouth shut at the time, I was 'miffed' that we didn't keep the status quo from the end of last season...

Yeah, I get why he wasn’t selected (I think all of the NFL owners may have a pact not to hire him, at least silently) ... but someone like that and have Freddie sticks as OC seems to be the path that made most sense.

But, what do I know lol

Just when they gave me a glimmer of hope that we were relevant again, they go back to what they have been since the re-birth. I think I'm going to take a break. I will catch up on my Walking Dead on Sunday's.

Being a Browns fan is like getting a kick in the nads every week.

Oline is not very good, we need to stick to quick 3 step and pass plays and runs.

Baker is off. He's not playing well, part of it seems to be lack of trust in the line. Large part is he seems confused or not sure of himself.

We can't overcome adversity. Almost immediately after that long opening run by SF, the team looked defeated.

Our defense STILL cannot stop the run.

Def Still giving up those 10-15 yard plays easily to TE's.



On a side note...ESPN sucks for games.

The announcers babble about all kind of things, most have nothing to do with the game.
They seldom show a replay, especially on objectionable plays.
How many times did they not air the ref's explanation of a challenge?
And the half time show crap just sucks. I didn't tune into MNF for music videos.

Was the Shanahan in his first season as the 49ers headcoach the same as the Shanahan today?

The 49ers winning 6 games in yr one under Shanahan then winning only 4 games last year under Shanahan's leadership. It took Shanahan 2 full seasons as HC to turn the 9ers around.

Good coaches learn from their mistakes and improve year to year...Shanahan did and hopefully Freddy will too.

I'm sure he meant "couldn't." I'm guessing he was weary.

In defense of the Oline, Baker has been part of the problem.

We weren't playing as a team and Freddie said it best when he said they have to do a better job coaching these guys.

Mike Silver probably couldn't wait to write that.... lol.

The coach may end up not being bad, but his coaching up to this point has been bad.

Baker not shaking hands before the game?

I'm embarrassed for him. I'm embarrassed to be a fan.

At least show up and play if you're going to act like a d-bag.

If he wants to act like he's in college, may be the team should treat him like he's in college and bench him for a game.

I'm sorry, but that kind of behavior deserves every butt kicking it gets and all the mock that comes with it.

This team not only embarrassed themselves on the field, they embarrassed their fan base off it.

Jc

I can’t even get on IG right now cause the meme game against the browns is brutal. No sports shows for me today.

I agree ... we’ve brought on all of the criticism ourselves with poor coaching, poor playing, and immature/misguided professionalism by our leaders.

Not shaking hands is straight disrespectful IMO ... shows that he’s immature and ignorant

I’ll have to refrain from any sports shows related to the NFL for another week now as well

I disagree. I thought we saw steady improvement from games 1 to 4. Incremental changes to adjust weaknesses, great game plans. Game 1 I chalked up to an anomaly as many game 1s often are.

But yesterday did not continue that trend. It was a regression, but I don't think it had been bad all year...just the opposite I thought it had been encouraging.

Here are Sherman's comments for those who have not seen them.



Like I've said before. Putting a target on your back is not smart in the NFL.

I saw a quarterback who just wasn't delivering the goods. He was inaccurate and made some questionable decisions. Most of the points on the board were the direct result of his poor decision making. He needs to fix that. I believe he's going to be a great quarterback some day but right now he's just getting started.

Defense? Some days you're the windshield and some days the bug. I don't really know of many middle of the pack NFL teams who could have done any better against that. The Niners are loaded for bear.

I think one major change that can be done right now and not really have any down side is to start letting the OC call the game. It's time to see what Monken can do. Kitchens needs to spend his time on the ENTIRE team and see to it that they are prepared. He does not need to be calling the offense. If Kitchens can't adjust to that reality of NFL life then I doubt he's the answer in the long haul.

No coach firings, no panic trades, the Team just needs to get it's mind right.

Exactly, you’re going up against MEN with their livelihood on the line ... no need to put a target on your back for no reason. It’s just not a good look either

wonder who Mayfield will tick off against the seahawks.

you know Clowney is waiting to have a destructive game with his new team.

That's fair. We just see it differently. To have a game like that in week 5 is awful. Callaway shouldn't have been playing, he was atrocious. OBJ returning a punt late in a 28-3 game? Atrocious.

After the first play of the game, we never had a shot. We were not a very well coached team last night. Starting to wonder if the coaches are in over their head.

Our coaches are definitely in over their heads ... Shanny and his staff legit dominated us last night. It was like we were a puppet and they were the puppet master.

In terms of OBJ ... I’m not sure why, but there’s just no chemistry or ability to get him the ball as a WR

If people are expecting Freddie to be perfect with no mistakes, then they are going to be seriously disappointed.

It's what they learn from the mistakes. I'm sticking by what I said before this game...I think Freddie has this team on the right track but we may not notice it until the end of the year. I think there's a method to his madness.

Yesterday was a regression for sure but if he does what I think he's going to do...believe in himself and stay the course...not get too high or too low...I think we will see it pay dividends.

Something else that people are making too much of...just because he's never been a coordinator before doesn't mean he can't be a good head coach. You're either a leader or you're not. But even leaders aren't perfect and will make mistakes.

BM,
Make all the commercials you can while you can. Just awful to watch what you are doing to hurt us. I recommend Vitamin P (Pine) for folks who just can't get their head ready for games and produce. Sit until you can play. I think Monken needs a shot at calling plays. Keep Callaway off the field.

Eliminate or solve one or two mistakes this week. Try throwing to an open receiver. Fix these tall ball passes that seem to be all you can manage which are not accurate.

We expect better. One way or another.

The offensive scheme is just horrific. The receivers never line up correctly, they have no idea where they are even supposed to lineup how can I trust they have any idea where they are supposed to be in their routes? We spend either a timeout or get flagged on nearly every single drive for lining up incorrectly. The flood concepts almost ALWAYS look awful, no one is open, the receivers aren't at the correct depths.

Baker is constantly confused, he has not only not gotten better he is regressing. There is no excuse for not throwing the ball away and turning it over at this clip.

Your offensive line is struggling and has been all season, so you go empty on a whole lot of plays early......makes absolutely no sense.

At least 4 QB hits in the first half, they had a freaking tight end 1on1 versus Nick Bosa. You have to be a complete moron to scheme that up more than once after he annihilated the TE the first time.


The coaching is horrific, these players are not put in a position to succeed, they are confused, top to bottom. I knew there would be rookie HC growing pains but this is flat out stubborn ignorance.

Problem is, by the end of the year when we’re finally good the year is over haha

I'm not advocating for Kitchens to be fired. I think he could be a very good HC, but he has a long way to go. Perhaps it was too soon for the young Kitchens. I feel like we've been outcoached in most our games this year, even one of the wins... however, our talent is keeping us in games and sometimes that's producing wins, but the coaching needs to get better in a hurry.

Pat Thorman
@Pat_Thorman
Baker Mayfield (66) and Lamar Jackson (67) have faced pressure on a similar number of dropbacks.
However their passer rating while under pressure is not similar.

LJ: 99.0
BM: 22.3

Baker has been a part of the problem, no doubt about that, but our tackles have been downright embarrassing. I don't feel like Baker has much confidence in the overall line play and I cannot blame him.

Kitchens has been flat out bad so far. I'm beginning to think Monkon calling plays might not be a bad idea.

CLEVELAND BROWNS
Baker Mayfield had two interceptions in the first half. The first was caused by Richard Sherman making a nice play, and the second was no fault of Mayfield’s as his pass bounced off Antonio Calloway and into K’Waun Williams’ hands. Mayfield also lost a fumble on a scramble and had another fumble recovered by his teammate.

Odell Beckham Jr. dropped a first-quarter screen and fumbled a fourth-quarter punt. Beckham’s only really productive play on the night was catching a 20-yard out route underneath Sherman, who seemed more than happy to stay over the top and let Beckham have the catch.

Cleveland’s defense didn’t play with much energy and was unable to control their gaps in the run game. The unit allowed 275 rushing yards with a large bulk of the damage done by Brieda and Coleman.

Cleveland didn’t play very good coverage, either. Linebacker Joe Schobert, who was responsible for Kittle’s 22-yard touchdown, was particularly poor in coverage throughout the night.

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-week-5-pff-refocused-san-francisco-49ers-31-cleveland-browns-3

need to speed the game up for baker..When he has to think he falters..run the 2 minute or no huddle to establish rhythm. When you watch the game back and focus on the WR and the routes, we almost run nothing crossing the middle of the field. We dont run rub routes or pick plays to get guys open..not sure why, just about every NFL does this. Theres just so much broke right now, problem with bad coaching, they've spent all offseason with bad coaching and now magically its supposed to get better. I'd seriously consider getting rid of Lindley and getting a real Qb coach in here. Zampese is available

First half comedy of errors on offense. Niners controlled the line of scrimmage on both sides of the ball. Another wake up call.

We beat the Seahawks at home next week and go 3-3 we are still good to go. How many of you picked Browns to win back to back road games at Baltimore and SF at the start of the season? Next week is very big though.

Ive seen a few ppl mention it, but where has the no-huddle gone? We ran it to perfection at times and we rarely employ it

We get the 9ers after their bye week and we travel to THEM. We get the Seahawks after they have a week-and-a-half to prepare - and while they must come to US - we have the short Mon-Sun week AND have a travel day to boot. Rookie HC...new Asst Coaches all around...new schemes...scheduling BS. You can't make this stuff up.

Our OL is bad. We have a C and a LG (who got abused at times last night) and the rest are simply below average. Baker had confidence in his OL last year...and it showed. Baker does not now have confidence in his OL...and it shows.

Our DL is crazy-ridiculous overrated. The middle is way too soft and the edges couldn't get on the 6th Rd rookie LT. Myles needs to step up his game or stop proclaiming his DPOY desires.

I'd sure like to undo the part of the trade that lost Zeitler...regardless of any other player we may lose/gain if we could get in that time machine.

I read again where Freddie thinks he may be asking too much of these guys. Really? You think? Hey Freddie...quit saying it and start doing it. That comment stinks of a coaching staff/plan to have the team do what the Coaches want to see rather than what they are actually capable of doing. The very thing that made FK successful last year.

The game ended when Callaway handed the ball to the 9ers rather than scoring a TD. Calling that a deflection is so inaccurate that it's a borderline lie. A TD there and we get a breath and the 9ers have to respect the O a little...instead...they continued to lay their ears back and come after us. We never recovered.

Where did our TEs go last night? FK outsmarting himself? (And no...I do not want him fired or on any hot seat of any kind.)

Our 4-2 defense can't stop the run...maybe a real LB in a 4-3 would be appropriate at times?

What a huge disappointment that game was...equal to the opener.

The team quit on Kitchens... again......

Team never quit on Hue...

Nuff said.

I know. I could care less is one of the most common mistakes in our language. I wasn't nagging him. I see people say that all the time and every once in a while I reply back as I did this morning. Maybe I should have added a wink at the end of that.

Our team would look much different if we had Darnold, Chubb, Chubb, Hernandez ... wow

The 49ers are a bad team to fall behind. Their DL is stacked.

I think that played into Freddie's decision to receive the opening kick.

We started the game giving Chubb the ball early and often. Once we fell behind, they didn't have to worry as much about giving up plays and just tee'd off on Baker.

Callaway's bobbled TD turned pick was the tipping point.

If he'd caught it, things could have very well turned out differently.

I'm still concerned, but how they respond will determine a lot.

j/c:

I wonder how everyone other than Baker being blamed for what's wrong w/the team is going to play in the locker room?

Back in the day, players could just not read the paper or listen to talk radio, but all of these young guys are on social media and are going to learn how one player is being protected and they are taking the blame.

I can tell you first hand that that crap does not fly well in locker rooms.

It's one game - yes it was atrocious but it's WAY too early to freak out. These guys are still learning: Coaches, players, everybody. The OL is not exactly NFL caliber at tackle. This affects what can effectively be done in terms of game planning. You can't run on the edge (not sure why they are trying). You can't really throw deep because the QB doesn't have the time. Freddie is in over his head right now and we all know it. It's tough learning on the job at this level. Hang in there. Works needs to be done. Attention to detail needs to be raised. On to Seattle. Have a good week everyone.

Players don’t just read social media, they’re downright obsessed with it (most of them anyways) ... it’s their way of life. To be bashed on social media is a huge hit to their ego. Baker has probably read a lot of what has been said (and that goes for OBJ, Landry, etc)

Baker's getting blasted practically everywhere. I'm not sure how you are seeing otherwise.

Booger must have mentioned 1-read QB 20 times during the broadcast. The first time when it showed Baker throwing to his second read, no less.

Hopefully, they can rally together.

There is plenty of blame to go around. They all need to do better. Baker included.

Starting with Baker, he's not the same quarterback from last year. He has definitely regressed. How much of that is coaching and how much of that is due to the line I don't know. Add to that I think not shaking hands before the game is bush League just like Richard Sherman said.

With that said, anyone quoting how long Baker held the ball for to suggest that baker has plenty of time it's not watching the game. The 49ers had penetration and will collapse in the pocket instantly, Baker was under pressure as soon as the ball was snapped.

Then finally as has been mentioned, they seem to be very few plays where there is an outlet receiver for Baker to dump the ball off to. I will say that in week 1, Baker was ignoring wide open receivers underneath all game. Against the 49ers we did not seem to have receivers open full Beaker to throw the ball to. I was watching in a ball but it even seemed that they showed replays of our wide receivers being covered up.

Last point and probably the most important point. we were outcoached. Not by a little .... we were taken out behind wood pile and given a bloody beating. Lack of preparation, lacck of offensive game plan, execution and tragic play calling.... I said this last night and I saw somebody else make the point today, kitchens is coaching and calling plays like he's smarter than anyone else. Just look at the first offensive Play We called, which was a gadget Play. Their first play was a base zone run and it went for a touchdown.

I absolutely wanted Gregg Williams as head coach. the two things corrected as soon as he became interim head coach, was instill discipline and have the team prepared. I am happy to continue to support Freddy oh, he's got to learn and continue to show progressions though.

Voice to text sorry for any inaccuracies

I am off the Kitchens train, he is clearly over his head.

You just hope our players stay with it because if they don’t, things will get way worse

Even before Chubb, we could have taken Nelson instead of hospital ward. Another mistake is not going after Mack because of Garrett saying he wanted Ogbah.. hell i would have traded Garrett for Mack

I turned it off before the Half.

Not over-reacting: this team is Fool's Gold.


ONLY by virtue of how soft our schedule is the second half, we're no better than 10-6, more likely 9-7, and probably not a Wild Card team.

I'm just going to say it, the conversation in this thread kinda sucks. I'm gonna try to redirect with some humor and some of what I saw. This is gonna be a long post, and I doubt most people read any of my posts, but I'd love to hear constructive opinions on what I thought I saw.
-I'm also going to focus solely on the first half. The game was pretty much out of control after that, and I don't feel good giving credit or criticism when a game is essentially over.

Long story short... I blame Farmer for the loss last night.
I'm gonna start off with giving credit where credit is due. Shanny stole our dinner, ate it, took a dump on the plate and handed it back to the Browns. I always loved Shanny the playcaller, but I hated Shanny the coach. I didn't think he had the personality/leadership to be an effective coordinator much less HC. Well, his stops in Atlanta and SF are proving me so wrong. I dunno.... maybe guys that are that arrogant really ARE that much smarter than everyone else. Kudos to him. He has a solid-if-unspectacular group of guys playing some amazing football. Jimmy G really hasn't had to do much, and there are far more talented runners and pass-catchers on other teams (like ours), but he just takes it and makes it into a work of art on the field.

I honestly didn't see anyone on our team really stick out as the reason for the loss. Don't get your undies in a bundle, Baker sucked and Freddie sucked, etc... but not any more than I was expecting coming out of training camp, and not enough to be close to being single-handedly responsible for the beatdown.

Baker
-Baker needs to be better. I do think he will be, which is why I may come off as lenient on him. The handful of times they showed WRs downfield, he had guys either wide open or WIDE open. I'm not sure I saw him throw a perfect pass the whole game (on time, on the hands or leading in the right direction to pick up more yards). That's concerning, but I've seen him clean that up (if temporarily) last year. I'm also hoping the dude just needs to spend more time getting acclimated to the playbook and WRs. Talking heads were pointing out numerous times when he had better passing options and/or wasn't reading the field and/or moving the safety. If Freddie wants to run the offense he obviously wants to run (passing the ball all over the field, he's gotta get Baker's head out of his butt).
Lastly, if he's really pulling that college crap with the handshakes, bench the kid. Seriously. When Richard Sherman is lecturing you about respect and acting right (and he's correct) you've got a serious problem. Freddie won't do it because Baker is his meal-ticket, but this kid needs a real hard smack upside the head. Sherman was right, you pull that crap in a pro game and then lay an egg on the field like that? Guy is a joke.

Freddie
I'm debating who should shoulder more blame between Freddie and Baker (my scapegoat is still Farmer). We kept going to the 3WR sets, and literally every time we did that in the first few drives, something bad happened. Whoever thought it would be a good idea to put a TE on Bosa and have the tackle double the guy next to him should seriously rethink if they're cut out for their job. That's just stupid. A couple posters on here have been beating the drum about offensive formations, so it's hard not to notice (even for a noob like me) how they're lining up, and also where the WRs end up. It was either on the Calloway INT drive, or the drive before when we kicked the field goal, Landry and OBJ ran into each other in the endzone (and the ball didn't even go there). You have two guys that literally cannot be covered by their DBs, so you take them out of the play for the defense? No defensive coordinator can say we're NOT a generous bunch.
That said, I saw some adjustments from Freddie towards the end of the first half. We started running some creative plays from our 3WR formations. That quick give to Chubb with OBJ in the backfield was really clever. They were definitely trying to put the ball in OBJ hands in space and let him go to work. The OBJ trick plays were working... say what you want about force-feeding him the ball, but those plays were actually working. It looked to me that Freddie was adjusting well on offense in the first half.

Calloway
It's a good thing I'm not a decision maker for this team. I'm sick and tired of this kid. Make him a gunner and only let him out there on special teams, or make him inactive and let people that actually want to be a pro get a chance. We know, from firsthand experience, you can have all the talent in the world and not be able to do a damn thing if you don't have the attitude.
Comes into camp out of shape, promptly gets suspended. Comes back and his only contribution is LITERALLY GIVING a ball to the defender in the red zone. As I mentioned before, that wasn't a well-thrown ball, but it was catchable and was a sure-fire TD. Then he goes and mopes with his helmet on on the sideline. He's another one that could use a real good smack upside the head. Can't WAIT until Higgins is back.

Chubb
It's decided. I'm buying a Chubb jersey. Guy comes to work and grinds and gets it done each game. He didn't get the yards, but he was up over 5/carry, and that was against a monster Dline. He worked for each and every one of those yards. Lots of times the hole just wasn't there (and many times it was... I'm not bagging on the oline, but giving credit to their dline).

Defense
I thought they did real well. They obviously had some breakdowns and miscues, and that happens, and they definitely weren't going to shut out Shanny's O. They have things to work on, but I can't get too much on their case when the offense only puts up 3 points. 3 points isn't ever going to cut it.

Other WRs
I looked at the stat line after the game. Landry and OBJ had some stats, and Chubb (I think) had a catch and.... that's pretty much it. IIRC, no other WR had a catch. That's insane. A finger needs pointed at someone for that, but I'm not sure who it is.

Hammer
He was busy and did pretty well. He's overdue for some stinker games, I think... but he's been real impressive.


Shanny was our OC, and couldn't handle the Farmer show. If not for Farmer, I doubt he would've quit. Now I dunno if that means he would've stayed (we had at least 1 more reboot between then and now), but the fact remains that we drove off a guy that's looking pretty dang awesome in his HC role right now. I'm not down on Freddie, but the truth is that he has A LOT to learn about being a HC (and playcaller). Freddie will never be Shanny, Shanny is simply a different breed that doesn't come around very often, but I do think Freddie can get there. The question is how long that will take, and do we have the patience.

It would be 10x worse right now if we didn't win that Bmore game.

I wanted to get a walk in after getting home from work late and before I settled down to watch the game. I listened to the first 30 minutes or so while walking. My first thought was our play selection on our first 2 drives.

We just finished running the ball very successfully against the Ravens so I expected some control the ball type of philosophy. I was surprised that 4 of our first 5 plays were passes (at least that is what I remember).

I usually listen to Jim & Doug with the TV sound down. I think I turned it off mid-third quarter and watched king of queens reruns. Needed to laugh at something that wasn't also sad.

Regarding some of the Baker comments, I am a huge Buckeyes fan and was definitely bothered by the flag planning but at least I could understand it was a huge win for them. The thing that bothered me more was the Kansas crotch grab. For crying out loud I think Kansas has averaged 2 wins a year for the past 9 or 10 season. Why mess with their fans? The Sooners were up about 40 points, let the scoreboard do your talking.

This kind of brings me to the character thing. Does it matter in pro sports? I certainly don't expect 100% choir boys but I always preferred guys who let their good play on the field speak for themselves. I don't even know what Callaway's issues were but I remember the "gamble" when he was drafted because of character. I was listening to the radio on Baker's 1st int but saw a replay later. AS soon as Sherman caught it Callaway (the intended receiver)just kind of stopped for a second then made a weak attempt to go after Sherman. Add to that his multiple times he could not line up and I was very disappointed.

Not throwing in the towel on any player or the season now but then I wasn't buying the 11-5 12-4 predictions. I sort felt more like Vers in that we had a ton of new players the past 2 years and thought it would take a while.

This sums up our concern w/Freddie:

Jake Burns
@jake_burns18
·
20m
Kyle Shanahan: "Everything we do starts with the outside zone. We build from there. We check how they react to it."

This is an identity on offense. I am not quite sure what Cleveland's currently is.



What’s our identity? It seems to change

Darnold? Really, come on man.

I'm not going to ride you for being negative but this is extreme. And the other Chubb is out for the year and had no sacks through 4 games. This is like always wanting to be with another woman other than your wife or girlfriend because the grass is always greener.

Be negative. Keep it realistic at least.

The thing that people should be the most upset about is Bakers behavior. You can have a whole thread on just that.

And I'd bet anything in his midweek presser he's going to double down.

Our identity was to replicate the greatest show on turf.

It's not working. Time for a new one.

I would like to hear Baker's side of the story. So many here are quick to hate on their quarterback....

If anything, it looks like Sherman passes him over.

This sitution mirrors political fake news. Good job, everyone.

#owned

Baker went 8-22 and threw 2 int's. None of that is on Freddie. It's about time you man up and admit that while it's true that Freddie is part of the problem, Baker is too.

And while we're at it, maybe it's time you own up to the fact that Baker's antics are creating undo attention that doesn't help.

Bosa gave us proof of that last night. Running your mouth and putting a target on your back doesn't help.

It's about time you get a better grasp on people's posts before you say something like this. Device has mentioned Baker being an issue as far back as three weeks ago.

Do better.

H
i owe Baker an appology for buying into Sherman's lie.... others do as well but I'm sure we wont see that

You're just here to pick fights, aren't you?

So what happened? Did him and Sherman just not shake hands? Why would Sherman lie about this?

I'm confused.

Who knows what Sherman was thinking but the video, granted a short one, says a lot.

Hopefully we see it from another angle, as there has to be more than just that shot of the captains meeting up.

It's a short clip, and Sherman is coming up to Baker right at the the start of the video. To my eyes it looks like Sherman walked past Baker, Baker looks surprised and looks back at Sherman s he walks past him.... i see zero disrespect from Baker and Baker goes on to hug the next guy.... Sherman is lying and is the instigator of any non-handshake.

history is written by the victor.

maybe in ancient history and battles where the losers are dead or enslaved ... when there is video of the lie Sherman smeared Baker with .... not so much thankfully.

A simple way to avoid a lot of this criticism, drama, media backlash, etc is to just play well and win. Winning cures all ... unfortunately, we’re still a losing team. And our QB play and coaching (among other things) doesn’t look to be on the way to winning

I don't know if he is trying to lie. Maybe he perceived something incorrectly, felt it slighted him, and he took it the wrong way.

By the way, I think evidence of the past clearly shows that Sherman thinks everyone is against him and is generally wrong in relation to his position, according to him.

But that video shows that it looks like what Sherman said is not what happened. That's all I really care about.

Freddie has an OC, why is the OC not calling the plays, it's not like Freddie is some play calling guru with a track record.

Baker threw 3 TD passes that were not caught. 2 to Callaway 1 to Harris. If they gave OBJ effort the game would have been different. I dont know what to think of the run D. Bosa was the game changer. It was a sad night. Baker will be fine he is just having some problems early in games.

After some coffee this morning I knew what the Board would sound like.

Pretty much like the first post.

Putrid performance. Beaten at everything that one can do on a football field.

But again all look to hang it on one thing or person.

I guess after we beat the Ravens John Harbaugh was out coached. Should be on the hot seat etc. Lamar should be benched. They should tank and look for a new qb.

This is the NFL today. Over exposed. Over commercialized. Everybody is an expert. All looking for "I told you so".

There are no excuses for Monday night. Poor performance by all involved. It is easy to single out a player for a bad play. Easy to look at the coaching and lay the blame there. Keep digging and start looking at Dorsey as well. I mean if Freddie is to blame so is Dorsey right?

The Browns got beat. Yes it sucked. Today is Tuesday and the next game is Sunday against another good team.

So all those that want to fire everyone and play the blame game and I told you so. Get your pencils out you have all week to let it fly.

The season is sixteen games. The Browns are 2-3 a game behind the Ravens.

There is not a single game on the schedule that will be a cake walk. At the same time there is no game the Browns are incapable of winning. If we play well.

After this season ends there will be plenty of time to figure out what went wrong or right.

the video isnt clear though, unfortunately.

combined with how Bosa was acting, including what all these other players have been saying about our team....i mean it shouldnt be a surprise to anyone that our team has a massive target on their backs.

it also doesnt help that baker has a very clear history of being an absolute jerk to opposing teams, both before, during, and after. so....i dunno man.

put it like this: it would be a lot easier dealing with baker and the teams hype and trash talk if we were actually winning. but we are not, and as such, these things will be highlighted constantly until we start winning consistently, IF we start winning consistently.

and beating up on the bengals and steelers toward the end of the season wont help with that. because we've already got the rep of not being able to beat good teams.

are we gonna throw another party because we beat the dolphins, for example?

I can agree to an extent, i guess my overall opinion of Sherman based on passed shinanigans as re-hashed in the other video is low enough to let me believe this was a calculated smear by Sherman .... he could easiky have simply misread Baker. Would love a more complete and frontal video clip.

Available video evidence leaves a lot to be desired, but I'm feeling like an idiot criticizing Baker for the non-non-handshake.

This refuting info may take a little bit away from the argument that Baker is in sore need of an attitude adjustment, but hopefully not too much.

I think the video is plenty clear to show that Baker was not being disrespectful. I'd love to see more video and a frontal view to see what Sherman is doing as he clearly walks past Baker. Just how i see it.

thats fine, but overall, baker should probably do a lot less yapping in press conferences and on the sidelines and more focusing on being a good QB.

its great for sound bites, not so great when it comes to winning games.

No, but I'll stand up to your BS every day of the week.

Yeah it appears Sherman is doing Sherman again ... but again, if we win this isn’t an issue. Heck, even if Baker plays well and we lose ... we’d get respect. But it’s just a continued trend of not ready for the lights (and we certainly have a lot of attention)

ESPN just showed the clip. I bet Grateful won't post that one. LOL

If Sherman is lying about this, that's pretty bad. However, I'm not going to "apologize" to Baker. Play better and win some games.

I won't bring up the handshake anymore as it appears to be something either made up or misconstrued. But even if it is made up it starts with guys not liking Baker and wanting to stick it to him. Maybe Sherman and Bosa talked about this all week. It's obvious Bosa had this date circled on his calendar.

Less talking, more working, more winning.

What did the clip show?

I'm sure many have alluded it to it...I shut the game off with 11 minutes left...obviously I missed some stuff.

-How in the world do we score only 3 points with this supposed deadly O? Soccer teams fair better with points than we do.

-We seemed to be out hustled and timid-not a good combo by any means

-Chad Thomas and Lawerence flashed more than Sheldon Richardson and Vernon...considering what it took to get those guys, thats not a good look.

-Myles Garrett had a sack, but was pushed around all game...how come noone was able to feast off SF's back-up LT?

-Garrett's ceiling is more of Simeon Rice, than the Reggie White many make him to be...regardless he's our best pass rusher.

-Our interior was quiet, I saw Obi flash once or twice

-TJ Carrie seemed to be picked on

-Eric Murray seemed invisible

-Why was Lesean McCoy returning a punt for us...oh I mean Odell...carrying it like a loaf of bread, dude wasn't even surprised when he fumbled...smh

-Our OTs have issues with movement...both were graded in the 60s in overall ranking last year (horrible) Desmond Harrison was ranked in the 60s as well...He sucked, as does both Hubbard and Robinson.

-Do we have any idea how to chip block? None of the TE's seemed to hold their own...Hilliard can't block as a RB either

-Man Baker...I hate to say it but he plays awfully similiar to Manziel nowadays...holding that ball too long, scared, running around aimlessly, issues with seeing the field...It's really sad to watch anymore...Something major needs adjusted here today...if not, this team will ruin him.

-Calloway needs shipped off, lackadaisical in the truest form.

-I could be wrong, but it seems Mack Wilson was in on more plays...could be very wrong...Though I think he had a blunder on special teams.

-Randall seemed quiet and got beat more than usual.

-So ours TEs had zero catches, ditto with our #3 and #4 WRS...Have to spread the ball around

-On replays once again, I saw all of our routes downfield...Cannot make those routes continually when we are having severe issues with our Oline and QB.

-San Fran was significantly quicker...all of our players acted as if they each had a gallon of ice cream before kickoff.

-Totally got owned on MNF...I don't know whats going on with Freddie.

What a joke. You just failed at trying to call Device out for not getting on Baker and then say he is the one with the BS?

So what did the espn video show?? And was it before or after the game? Other than the captains meeting before the game when it why would those players meet to shake hands?

What is sad, is that a bunch of posters choose to believe Richard Sherman about what went down because it fits their narrative about Mayfield and his character "flaws". The guy screams and taunts the GOAT - classy and respectful. How about the Erin Andrews incident. He is a POS and always has been. I call BS with this "handshake" episode, too.

what Erin andrews situation? im tired of people acting like he was yelling at Erin.

the dude just made the play of the game to send his team to the SB, and was CLEARLY hyped up over Crabtree.

https://ftw.usatoday.com/2014/01/erin-andrews-happy-richard-sherman-interview

this how Erin felt about it. sorry but you can't be out here talking about narratives and then turn around and pull that BS.

Good take, tru. Thanks for bringing it back to football.

Check out these charts from Next Gen Stats. They show all the passes from Baker and Jimmy G last night. Notice how Jimmy G used the entire field and how Baker heavily favored the right side. In fact, Baker did not complete a pass over the middle or on the left side that was past the LOS. Being a one-read qb who doesn't see the whole field is much easier to game plan against.

What's up man, long time no see.

I agree with you and I have no idea what happened. We had some rhythm, we got first downs, we scored points against the Ravens with a lot of dump offs, quick crossing routes, screens, etc... then we go up against a better DL and we just stop doing all of that. It worked.

Part of it is execution though... we had one 3rd and 3 I remember and we got 2 guys running across the middle from the same side of the field about 4 feet from each other... one of them is in the wrong place.

I am NOT a big fan of the no-back sets, under any circumstances really.. Chubb is a weapon from anywhere on the field and I HATE when they split him out.. that's not his game. Leave him in the backfield, at least make them consider the run, use him to chip (God knows the OL could use the help), use him to dump off, whatever.

Great post mac.....

The past week or 3 been thinking about starting a post titled......

HOW LONG DOES IT REALLY TAKE TO GO FROM RAGS TO RICHES?.

Imo still piecing it together man. Still piecing it together.

And we've got 8 pass attempts over 15 yards.. they barely have 2....

More noise form the peanut gallery I see......

I agree with you on that. I just about scream every time we go into a no-back set. Especially, when we're in a 3rd and short or goal line situation. At least make the Defense consider the run! You have a RB that averages nearly 5 yards a run, you're in a situation that favors a running play, and you have an O-Line that struggles to block a 3-man rush. So your plan is to motion the back outside, completely take the guesswork out of it for the defense, let the front four pin back their ears and ignore any running lanes, let the linebackers drop back directly into coverage, and hope that works out for you?

We just need to completely rip the no-back sets out of the playbook.

Vers, can you please expand on this instead of letting it drop. Wth happened?

And almost all our "short" routes were behind the line of scrimmage. Probably some sort of screen pass. It's like the coaching staff completely ignored what worked last week and decided that we could win with the vertical stuff that completely failed the first couple of week.

Vers posted that chart of his passes ... and that’s pretty damning. Teams are destroying him with his tendencies and weaknesses ... and he hasn’t really progressed and adjusted (hopefully he does)

In basketball we call it getting guys “off their spots” and it’s very effective to limit FG percentage

Thats something, as we all know....shorter the pass, normally the easier it is...Yet we seem be avoiding the short routes and short throws altogether...makes you scratch your head.

I think this might end the debate.

Thats a great break down, seemed like Baker is blind to that section of the field...I do remember he took that deep shot to OBJ on the left sideline, but beyond that...looks like he didn't even see that surface area of the field. He does, how many allude to...seem to lock his eyes on the right side of the field, and rolls that way out of the pocket...And he is NOT making any plays by doing that this year....very frustrating as we all expect better.

The biggest Baker pimp on the board who is trying to put the bulk of the blame on Freddie has nothing to laugh about.

How did you like the Bosa flag plant imitation? Not so funny when someone acts like the guy you pimp so hard, huh?



8-22, 2 int's, 2 fumbles.

Why did Freddie play so poorly?

finally, a good shot of it!

It's as if the coaching staff said since we played well last week we can go back to what we were trying to do at the beginning of the year.

It’s like the Zapruder film haha .. at least we know Baker wasn’t being a jerk here

You're so weird.

Are you suggesting that coaching isn't a problem? Are you suggesting Baker gave up 31 points?

Perhaps you should discuss and debate rather than aimlessly call out other posters for things you're trying to make up?

How can I take you seriously if you're telling me I didn't do the things you say when I clearly did (proof is on this board)?

Who are you? Richard Sherman?

I would never expect you to take me seriously. You've been living in fantasy land since April of 2018.

The play calling is a part of the problem, but that doesn't explain how a QB suddenly can't hit the broad side of a barn and coughs up the ball like he is allergic to it.

I wonder if Mike Silver will apologize for his article....

Thank you, Mr. Sherman.

So, the 49ers are a bunch of liars.

I guess I am the only one who doesnt care if Baker shakes someone's hand.
Even though he apparently did.

I am looking forward to new competant coaches next season.

Yep, I’m in agreement with you on that last point. We’ll give Freddie the year, but I think we’re way better off with an experienced HC and an innovative OC.

Looking back, hiring Arians and keeping Freddie as OC woulda been ideal

Dude, you're downplaying how badly Freddie is impacting things while overplaying things that happened.

One INT wasn't on him at all; the fumble, while stupid and inexcusable, wasn't "coughs up the ball like he is allergic to it".... you're a little too hyperbolic there.

Freddie has done very little to put Baker in a good position, and Baker has done very little at making the most of the situations he's put in.

They are both a crap-sandwich right now.

Hell, this entire team - coaches and players - is just a collection of Wannabes and Posers right now. lol, they're Kendall Jenner.... famous, but haven't done a damn thing to earn it.

He's got nothing, just likes to talk.

Why stop doing something he is so good at?

Maybe I'm making this up, but I could've sworn I saw their Dline get visibly relieved/excited when Chubb left the backfield. When he motions out, they reset and tense up.

So you're now on the 8-22 is a Freddie thing? Seriously?

Baker played like dog crap.

8-22

But what? Is he supposed to change the playcall? Or just roll with the failing crap he's being asked to work with? These comments are ridiculous when adding the word "but". What is a 2nd yr QB supposed to do with the play?

Same thing with these types of OL comments. "The OTs are bad and all and the line is getting abused...BUT...Baker has to do better." Wait...what? Is he supposed to block too?

Can Baker play better? Hell yes he can..and he HAS in the past. He isn't helping matters at times with his own issues...HOWEVER...there is NO WAY he could reach a level of "Better" that will overcome bad playcalling AND bad OL play.

Are you trying to wear that badge with honor?

8-22. Sounds like a lot of excuses to me.

I'm trying to point out that blaming the HC for crappy QB play isn't realistic. When your QB can't hit the broad side of a barn you need to stop making excuses for that.

Accuracy is a QB thing.

Like his signature.

8-22 sounds exactly like what you'll get with bad playcalling and bad OL play.

No, I'm on the 8-22 is a Freddie & Baker & Crappy WRs thing.



How do you figure all of it falls on just one person?
They're all crap.

Post-game thoughts:

This is a team still under construction. They are good enough to play above teams like the Jets and Ravens, but not yet good enough to play up to teams like SF and NE. We have the talent on paper, but the games are played on turf.

It takes time and togetherness to put out consistent product- time and togetherness we don't yet have. And you can't fast-track either of those things.

Each of these games is part of the learning curve all successful teams must go through. Road games, travel, time changes- all these are factors the can/could effect performance. Well-coached complete teams will be especially challenging this entire season. A few weeks ago, I stated that this team would look better in the 2nd half of the season, and not just because the schedule is a bit softer. I said it because I figured it would take at least 8 games to get the bugs worked out.

I think this is a 8-8 team at present. I hope to see them play up to 10-6, and take the AFCN, but the realist in me says to just sit back, relax and study this team's evolution throughout the 2019 campaign.

As sad as last night's performance was, it's still too early to hit the panic button. We're 5 games into a brand-new product. The rollout is bound to hit some bumps. Last night was a big speed bump. Keep driving to the destination.


.02

And no one is absolving Mayfield for his play, simply pointing out it's been crappy all round.

You ARE really good at presenting things no one is saying. Bravo!

Only one problem. My signature is a quote directly from the horses mouth and 100% correct.

"Mmmmm Hmmmmm"

8-22 falls on the QB. That's an accuracy issue. The QB is the one who throws the ball. I thought that was a rather basic concept. When your QB goes 8-22 you aren't going to win crap. I thought that was something everyone could understand. When your QB fumbles the ball twice, that's a ball control issue. Freddie isn't throwing or holding onto the ball. I didn't think it was all that confusing.

It must be.

Oh, sure... be all rational and douse the faux-rage I'm feeling. Great


It's must more satisfying, in a visceral way, to rage and rail, though!!
Boo.

No, each one of those 14 failures gets evaluated for its own cause. You don't just blindly lump them all on one piece because it is convenient and fits your narrative.

Freddie is making bad calls.
WRs are doing stupid things or just outright missing.
The QB is screwing up.
The OLine is screwing up.
Their defense was just playing well.

It's all of the above, and no amount of wishing or trying to declare otherwise changes that in any way.

Going live to Richard Sherman.....and a few posters on here:

Wait...so they DID shake hands. Huh...imagine that. He just didn't LIKE the handshake...so he says there wasn't one. Got it.

I'm not sure if you watched the game according to your post. Baker was putrid. Anyone who saw his performance knows that.

Apparently, there is a special ESPN video or something.

And here I thought Kitchens had a weak playbook.

I watched the first half... EVERYTHING in Brown & Orange was putrid.

Even if I didn't watch it, it doesn't change any part of the above. None of it.

Yep...and now there is $.04 in the kitty.

Usually takes me until about Wed afternoon to find that peace though...I'll get there eventually. I predicted 8-8 from the start of training camp...so there's that.

Imagine if we started off with the Dolphins and the Cardinals and then Bengals and maybe Steelers and looked like world-beaters...only to get destroyed by the "good" teams on the schedule. Now THAT would have sucked even worse.

Hopefully we get or are-getting the kinks out in games we were likely to lose anyway...maybe that's part of FK's diabolical plan? I'm going with that one until Sunday afternoon anyway.

Bottom line, you'll never win a game when your QB goes 8-22. Never.

Baker shaking hands before the game.


It's an old trick old timers use to get their team hyped..they lie, make up some kind of BS...Sherman used it against Baker and it worked on the 49ers like charm. Not only that, but just look at how many of our own Browns fans bought it, trying to blame Baker.

Kind of sad...

Jc...

Everyone is upset, frustrated, and angry with this team....of course they did...its human nature...I personally didn't even care, I was more upset over the poor display of football vs a handshake lol

No one "bought it". It was reasonable to assume it was true based on his past behavior.

j/c:

Key Takeaways from the San Francisco 49ers’ dominant 31-3 win over the Cleveland Browns

Baker has yet to rise in 2019
This was far and away the worst performance of Mayfield’s career. In Mayfield’s rookie campaign last season, he finished with seven game grades above 80.0. Through five weeks in 2019, he has zero.

In the blowout loss in the Bay, Mayfield had one big-time throw and three turnover-worthy plays (keep in mind, he had two interceptions in the box score, but only one of those was a turnover-worthy play: that red-zone interception should’ve been a touchdown, and it was solely on wide receiver Antonio Callaway). Taking out plays that negated by penalty, Mayfield dropped back to pass 26 times, and 14 of those he was facing some type of pressure. When under duress, Mayfield put up a 30.0 passing grade, 0.0 passer rating and completed 1-of-10 passes.

Nearly 50% of Mayfield’s pressured dropbacks in 2019 have ended with him outside of the pocket (highest in NFL). His adjusted completion percentage on those passes is over 20% lower than any other quarterback in the league, and he is averaging just 1.2 yards per attempt. Last night, Mayfield had six dropbacks under pressure and outside the pocket, with one leading to a sack and the other five leading to incomplete passes. In other words, his offensive line is giving up a good amount of pressure and Baker is trying to overcompensate for it.

Cleveland’s offensive line is a liability
As a whole, the Browns’ offensive line gave up a horrendous 50% pressure rate and recorded a poor 52.2 pass-block grade – both of which rank among the bottom-six in a single-game by a Browns offensive line in the PFF era. The only person that can walk away and say they did a decent job was center J.C. Tretter, as he had a 77.5 pass-block grade and allowed one pressure. On the other hand, the rest of the line had little to no pass-block success.

Left guard Joel Bitonio (62.7 pass-block grade), left tackle Greg Robinson (48.2 pass-block grade), right tackle Chris Hubbard (47.2 pass-block grade) and right guard Eric Kush (48.5 pass-block grade) all each recorded a double-digit pressure rate by themselves. They were getting sliced and diced on the edge and in the interior. With Baker being as bad as he has been under pressure and his forcing of some throws under duress, this offensive line needs to clean up their act if the Browns want to be the Super Bowl-caliber team the public was making them out to be.

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-takeaways-from-san-francisco-49ers-31-3-win-over-cleveland-browns

Fixed it for ya...

Richard Sherman as the bastion of football traditionalism, etiquette, and sportsmanship. Gimme a break. Enough of that. i will stick up for my QB on that nonsense.

I do not understand debates about the relative failures of the QB and HC last night. Team game. They need each other to succeed. They certainly did not help each other out last night. poor performance on both of them.

Beat the Seahawks and go to 3-3 into the break.

Bosa mimicked that perceived past behavior. Nah, Bosa just made that up. lmao

j/c:

Just watched the game. Man, that was really bad, a rough game to watch. Simply put, SF did whatever they wanted to and were a much better team overall.

I agree with the posters and the announcer who said Baker stares down his receiver(s). I noticed that in the last game too.

Glad I didn't take off work to watch this mess.

Oh. It's you again.

Thanks for missing the point again to create you're own little argument in my "fantasy world."

I just saw somewhere where they said Baker threw 22 handshakes last night lol

You almost heard that right... he was 8 for 22 on handshakes.

lol

Last nights loss was a team effort..from very first offensive play the 49ers ran...a simple off tackle dive play.

I understand that some of our younger fans have to find someone to blame...but that performance sucked all the way around...offense, defense and special teams.

Are you sure?

Sure seems to me that Baker was responsible for that 83 yd scamper for a touchdown. If we had drafted Darnold, that would have never happened.

Because Darnold would be out with mono!

What was it that Dorsey said before the season started...?




Oh how quickly some fans and media types forget...you were told what to expect.

I don't think so.

Fire Freddie.

Draft a QB.

Do both before next season.

Still waiting for the Jussie Sherman clip bro.
You dig it up yet??

Not reall... ok, yeah.

Look, I feel pretty dumb about taking Richard Sherman at face value... that's on me, but the reason it was believable is because he accused Baker of acting like a tool. Just because this time turned out to be false, doesn't erase the times before this.

I'm a Baker fan. I think Baker can make it given time, guidance, and some handholding/babying via easier playcalling for the near future. I think he will develop into a true franchise QB, and one that has the talent and attitude to bring this team up. Part of that will involve maturing into a pro, and acting as such.

I too would like to see the ESPN clip. I searched for it but came up empty.

mac,

I think what we're seeing is somewhere in between what Dorsey is saying there, and what some of the more extreme posters are saying on here.

I, for one, wasn't thinking this team would hit the ground running. But if you watch the game, it's also not as rosy as that Dorsey quote would lead you to believe. This team has regressed from last year, and has no identity (as long as you don't consider overhyped or 'all bark and no bite' an identity).

While time and patience ARE needed for this team, those 2 are not going to do it alone. Kitchens and Baker need to pull their heads out of their butt, and Kitchens needs to keep getting back to what worked last year, and build off of that.

J/c

It’s become more apparent to me just how rarely Mayfield completes it to anybody other than his primary read ... we HAVE to give him check downs and swing passes and outlets. Just go: first read? No... check down. It’s not that hard to add honestly ... and it’ll avoid negative plays and it’ll get him in rhythm

That was kinda my point. A lot of people perceive Baker to be a tool. But there really isn't anything he's done that would say he would not shake the hand of a fellow competitor. If he did I'd have to think Sherman did something to warrant such an action.

That's basically how Baker operates. Most of his actions are a response to something from a fellow competitor. If you look at his actions, tell me I'm wrong...

Nice football post...

well he certainly didn't respond well last night to anything. he folded.

Not that it means a damn thing about how poorly we played.. but other players had the bro-hug with Baker, Sherman was walking by without allowing that to happen. If anything, the "petty handshake" is on Sherman...

this is a total non-story

I saw that he started the handshake ... he just didn't complete it.

Too soon?

Either he doesn't complete it or he holds their hand too long.. he can't win with some of you.

or he was leaning to his right while doing it

The guys in front of him barely gave him enough time to get a proper handshake done. Sherman was on top of him before he knew what to do.

Except that it was a story used by those with an agenda against Baker to attack Baker. It also matters that while he has acted like a punk in the past hey, he's never done that as a brown. Closest thing he's done to being a rebel as a Brown was staring down Hue.... i had no problem with that after Hue did what he did when he left .... some might try to tarvand feather him over the Duke comments but for most it was proven to be a noyhing burger.

As you said earlier, it doesnt explain or change his woeful performance during the game.

Lastly over the back and forth posts over his 8-22 ... Baker owns the 8-22 performance and has to be accountable for some of it. Playcalling also had a significant impact, as did tipped and dropped balls, as did being under pressure on 80% of his drop backs .... thinking "blame" belongs all in one of those buckets is flat wrong.

I am wondering what shot some people said probably wouldn't be posted, like it showed disrespect.

Are people making things up just to stir the pot or tick people off?

Poor form.

Screw Dick Sherman.

Their Oline looked way bigger than our Dline and totally manhandled them.

Myles gets all the praise, but Bosa is doing what Myles should be.

Baker has got to quit trying to hit the long ball every play. Also, I never see any recievers coming back towards him to help when he starts to scramble. Higgins was the guy that bailed him out, we need him back.

OBJ was a joke on that return. First he runs backwards 10 yards, then reverses field and goes backwards again.

While we had two tight end sets, Many times it was just the TE trying to block Bosa. Robinson could not handle him, and our probowl LG got steamrolled by him.

Many keep saying that losing Zeitler is what's wrong. But the pressure doesn't seem to be coming from his guy, mostly from the left side. This has been the case in most games. The Tackles are the problem.

Baker is becoming a INT machine. On the first pick, I believe it was Callaway who had five yards on the defender. If Baker puts some air under that ball it's a TD. The comments about him being a one read QB are coming true. I think his height is becoming a factor. Once he is pressured, he falls apart. I don't think he can see the check down receiver over the pass rush.

I like Freddie, but this shotgun offense sucks. I also think he is trying to get too creative and overlooking simple fixes. I disagree that the playcalling is bad, I believe it is more the play structure that is the problem.

Just like our Dline looked little compared to their Oline, Our Oline looked smaller and weaker than their Dline.

Baker is not playing good, but I believe the offensive scheme is horrendous.

In the end it was apparent that SF was a far superior team. Stronger, more disciplined and better coached. Saying that though, people have to realize that their system is not new to them, ours is.

It was a hard game to watch, but it really made me realize that this team has made many changes and have not figures out who they are yet. I think they will improve as they go along, but the preseason hype is being shown as a mistake.

They are going to lose the next couple games and the fire the coach and bench the QB crowd will be loud and present. Then when we hit the back end of the schedule and win a few in a row people will start the hype all over again. The division can be won, but this team better get it together a lot more if they think they can compete in the playoffs.

Team loss IMO. Hope they can learn from it.

Your comments on Bosa/Garrett seem to hold true. Would we rather have Bosa (remember, he’s a rookie) or Garrett (as a 3rd year guy)

Bosa was a one man wrecking crew last night. He set up camp in our backfield.

Every time I see Richard Sherman's name in this thread, my brain keeps wanting to read it as Richard Simmons.

Trust me, it makes the thread soooo much better!

He stopped short.

That's my move!

haha classic

That was tough last night, they just looked outmatched at times. There were few adjustments made to help the offense deal with a lack of running game, and a lack of time to throw the ball.

The only way Nick Chubb was going to get going last night was if the passing game showed anything, so that the defense would back off a little. We kept running plays that needed several seconds to develop, when Mayfield only had half that time to stand in there.

That's not to absolve Baker Mayfield of this game either, he wasn't nearly good enough to win the game.

Defensively was what disappointed me the most. Just letting that guy break off that huge run on the first play. That's week 1 college stuff, when Alabama or Clemson play Nobody State. You can't let that happen. Several guys made awful mistakes on that play.

Even with the horrible play in the first half, the Browns found themselves at the 5 with a chance to make it 14-10, and the Callaway play was a bad play with a mix of bad luck. Just awful. Not only did you come away with no points, but SF went down the field and scored a touchdown, essentially icing this game.

The second half was just icing on the cake, allowing George Kittle to muscle his way for first downs. They did what you're supposed to do when you have that kind of a lead and the game is going your way, chew up clock and get the hell out of there. They're a hell of a team, and it really wasn't our night.

But hey, it's just one game, the overreactions are hilarious. Freddy needs to go, Baker is a bust, etc.. Just relax. I don't understand people with those takes. How do you enjoy games? Like for me, yesterday sucked, but it doesn't ruin my life. I honestly think people need those takes because they just want that "I was right moment" when it doesn't work out.

Neither Freddie nor Baker are going anywhere during this season, so why not just let things play out, instead of being irrational and ridiculous. Just take the game for what it is.

It's also 1 game, we're 2-3, and we are a few games away from getting through the toughest part of our schedule. I think the team will play well at home against Seattle. We haven't won at home yet, and I think they'll be ready to play.

You win next week, you go and play an obviously tough game in New England, if you come out of the first 7 3-4, with the remaining schedule, including 2 bengal games, 2 steeler games, the dolphins, broncos, cardinals, and a home game against baltimore? I think we'd all have taken that when the year started. LONG way to go boys and girls.

I wish I could "LIKE" this post twice, but the board won't let me. Well said, Sperg.

Well put, and we need more ground help. Our line play needs to improve. I'd have been all giggly over how little we managed to throw at the Sans last night if I were on their team. Not much changed except BM got worse and the bench didn't help.

Remember what we were good at and had success with. Play Gilbert some this week perhaps. Wake up this defense. We might need more help in the middle. W also need about four days of tackling practice.
This wasn't loss; it was a beating. We chose not to be ready.

It was a football post. I watched it on Sportscenter. Baker did indeed greet guys before the coin toss. So, Sherman wasn't being totally accurate. However, after the toss, Baker peeled off early instead of shaking hands w/the opponents, so Sherman wasn't exactly lying either.

Pretty much, it's a non-story other than Baker has a target on his back. And no amount of insults from posters on this board to those of us who see what's happening is going to change that.

Hey Grateful............do you have the clip of what Bosa said about Baker?

“What’s amazing, and annoying, was him not shaking hands at the beginning,” Sherman said, “That’s some college [censored]. It’s ridiculous. We’re all trying to get psyched up, but shaking hands with your opponent—that’s NFL etiquette. And when you pull bush league stuff, that’s disrespectful to the game. And believe me, that’s gonna get us fired up.”

"wasn't being totally accurate"
"not exactly lying"

Got it.

The "beginning" can refer to the coin toss. Look man, I was busy all day and haven't been on the board and when I came back on I see multiple posts of you calling me out. I tried to PM you and Rish, but you have me on ignore. But somehow, you read and respond to my posts.

I wanted to say this in a PM because it doesn't really need to be on the board, but you blocked me. You are being a bully, just like some others. You concentrated on something I saw on SportCenter and then made it sound like I said I watched a video.

Yet, I posted charts of Baker and Jimmy G's pass distribution and you completely ignore it. Wonder why?

This thread started w/people talking football. device and Eve came on here and made things personal. You ignored all of that and then attack me as if I am a liar. We're done.

I thought Bosa's flag plant mimic was classless. In old school ball, someone goes after that effeminate-sounding punk.

He's a rookie, "what's he done" in the NFL?

Callaway's drop and the quick 49er score was the ball game. If we make it 14-10, we have momentum and not so dependent on throwing the ball, can still keep them on their heels with the threat of a run.

BTW, I agree with the other posters who do not like empty backfield sets. Use it occasionally, not inside the freaking 10. Or on third down and short yardage.

They owned us anyway so it might not have mattered, but our D, early on, kept it close despite the turnovers.

We had no answer for their pass rush. Or their run game.

That equals: loss.

I think we'll beat Seattle, though, I really do.
Burn the MNF tape, get ready for the Seahawks.

What did you think of Baker trying to plant a flag in OSU's turf? Was that classless, as well? Or, was it okay because he now a Brown.

Here is the thing, lamp. Baker has a character flaw of disrespecting other players and coaches. I have maintained for a long time that kind of crap catches up w/you. Some posters love to dismiss that by saying "you hate Baker," but bro...........the blank is real. He put a target on his back and other players are starting to take shots.

It was inevitable.

That's weird since they were posted at different intervals throughout the day and deleted almost immediately... As I'm sure this one will be once you report it. X-Ray vision or reading minds? Were there multiple posts last night of you calling me out? Nevermind, you won't answer. I'm the bully?

#morefakenews

I thought baker doing that at OSU after a win was classless, too. Immature.

I grew up a hockey guy: if a road team won a game and planted a 'flag' - literally or figuratively - at centre ice, there's probably an on-ice brawl coming very soon.

You win, you pack up your stuff and quietly go home.

Yep. Wendell Clark or Ty Domi would have seen to it, lol.

Probert or Joey Kocur would have straightened that out at Joe Louis Arena in a hurry.

Domi btw is an a-hole. I'll send you a pm sometime.

You are resorting to lies? Show me where I posted later on after the ESPN post?

Dude, get lost.

i tried PMing you so we would not clutter the board.

Here is what appeared:




So, you are ignoring me............but reading all my posts.........and critiquing them. You have certainly went to the Dark Side and joined forces w/Memphis, device, jfan, and WSU.

Sorry Vers,
Just saw this and I see you and FATE are going at it.
Yes, Baker was not even looking at checkdowns sometimes but then again, that is why your O-coord, QB Coach and Vet backup are suppose to bend Baker's ear and tell him to take those check downs.

Also, Freddy has to see that the oline, cannot handle a good pass rush and call plays for quicker throws.

Oh come on, there has to be more on the dark side than just that...

sad thing , 888, is those people with an agenda that you speak of, they are browns fans with a hatred of our qb.

I’m beginning to think we screwed up by not keeping Greg Williams as head coach imo.

Dog, I am pretty sure that Freddie is trying to call quicker plays. Trent Green mentioned it during the Ravens game that Freddie spoke of it.

I also think that the offensive coaches are in Baker's ear and I do think that there are guys he can check down, too. Steve Young was talking about it the other night. He showed a clip of Baker in college, where he had a ton of time in a remarkably clean pocket at Oklahoma and how there were open receivers, but Baker kept holding the ball and fired a deep pass into coverage for a TD. He said something like Baker needs to take what is given and stop trying to make Super Man throws.

Kitchens was out coached in every phase of the game. He had nothing for Shanny.

Oh there is....they're part of the silent majority.

Dan Orlovsky said it best: Shanahan looked like a college professor and Kitchens looked like a substitute teacher. Not saying Kitchens can’t improve and become a good HC someday, but he’s not even close right now. IMO we would be in a MUCH better spot as a team had we hired an experienced HC (and I think we would have been able to land a good candidate given our situation)

I admit that I was (and still am) very disappointed that we didn't keep GW as HC, and FK as he OC. There seemed to be a synergy between the two of them that boded well for the future. Oh well, too late for that so let's get behind and support what we've got and give it a fair chance. Most of us acknowledged that we might get off to a slow start due to all the changes that were made...

Took me until today to be able to think,,,,,

That game sucked.. We have a long way to go..

J/C

I have stayed off since game night out of frustrations. I am sick of the back and forth on whose fault this is - the coach, baker, the line.

Monday night was an atrocity, and I don't think you can call that effort a professional football team.

Freddie -

He is lost. He has no control over this team, and OBJ taking the team aside on the sidelines tells me he has lost them. They have checked out on Freddie and his message. Unprepared, horrible game planning albeit the Ravens game, and just poor decisions all around. So far, he has been Hue 2.0. Enough said.

Oline -

They were atrocious. Giving up a sack under 3 seconds on a 2 man rush?! Give me a break. I don't want to hear its all Bakers fault either. This line is awful. The tackles are the biggest need. Robinson is a joke, and Hubbard was a backup in Pittsburgh that we think can start.....Even Joel was getting manhandled. They have checked out.

Baker -

He has regressed. And if he doesn't turn it around FAST, I fear he may never will. I have stuck up for him, and I think deep down he is a good kid, but he needs to get his head straight. Far too often he actually HAS TIME, and he bails on a good pocket, or doesn't step up. The one Bosa sack, all he had to do was step up and he would have been fine. Instead, he tries to roll out right. Hes not going to outrun anyone (especially since he looks like he put on 20 lbs of fat). Stay in the pocket and move your feet in there. Learn to read a defense, learn to check down, and learn to move you EYES!

Wilks -

I have praised him over the last two weeks, but how the heck do you come out running a 4-2-5 against one of the most run heavy teams in the league? That may have worked against Balt. because it helped contain Lamar, but Jimmy G aint running the ball. You need LB's in there to help stuff the run. This was evident ON THE FIRST PLAY FROM SCRIMMAGE!

Myles -

I am getting sick of hearing him saying he wants to be DPOY, when he cant stop a cold in the run game.

CB -

They finally played like backups, so I wont be too hard on them. But Randall, my man - I saw you pull up on that first play. Not a good look when your trying to get a big deal.


Overall Effort -

Its one thing to be a poor tackler, but I time and time again, I saw guys not even trying. The effort of this team is what is the most concerning. They are lost. I don't believe they have any faith in the coaching staff, and are not playing hard for them.

That is the biggest concern of all to me. Ive seen better effort from the Dolphins this year.

As of right now, I see us as a Tampa Bay type team. Loads of talent, not sure about our QB as one day he looks great, one day he looks like pooh (even though Baker didn't even look GREAT against BALT, just improved), not sure about our coaching staff, just dredging along through the season looking good one week, and like poop the next.

SMH

I don't know that they checked out. OBJ pulling people to the side would be evidence to the opposite, I think. If you're saying that there are individuals that are prone to checking out, or never really bought in in the first place, I could agree with that... or that the team as a whole handles adversity about as poorly as possible, I wholeheartedly agree with that.

I'm no Kitchens fan right now, but comparing him to Shanny is totally unfair. Shanny has been preparing and groomed for this spot for his whole career. Early on, dude knew he was going to be a HC. We all knew. He's put decent offenses together with subpar talent (ours), he's put together amazing offenses with good talent (Atlanta). He's failed and learned from said failures (ex. 'skins). He took his lumps last year in San Fran leading that team decimated by injuries. Kitchens hasn't experienced a quarter of that. Kitchens wasn't going to have it all figured out straight out of the gate, and neither was this team (new pieces and coaches and a 2nd year QB).

What if he went 9-21 instead like Big Ben...who won a SUPER BOWL with that stat line? That one more completion in one less attempt really turned the tide. Calloway catches the TD throw instead of handing to the defense and his stat line was 9-22...same as Big Ben's SUPER BOWL with one more attempt. How oh how did the Steelers win a SUPER BOWL with essentially the same stat line from the QB? It's a mystery.

The more you harp on that stat...the more you show who stats are for...and it highlights an appearance that you don't understand that there is much more to winning a game than what the QB stat line says.

I thought the same thing when I saw some kid do it at The Shoe.

Karma is a biotch.

The 49ers had 15 days rest before playing the Browns...I did not realize that.

I don't think either instance was bad, imo. I enjoy some rousing by other players. I think the if Ohio State didn't want the flag planted, they should have played better. I think if Baker didn't like Bosa planting the flag on him after getting knocked down - he should have played better.

That's the type of stuff that creates rivalries. I love it. To each their own though, I like trash talking a little bit between teams. Makes the game more fun to watch. We were on the bad side of it both times though, which is insanely odd lol.

The art of sportsmanship is officially dead according to some.

And even when sportsmanship is shown, all it takes is 1 person to lie - despite video - and SOME people go off on our qb.

Yep...one of the guys who did that did so as a college player after leading his team to victory over arguably the best team in the nation...certainly one of the best teams...on the road...after getting smoked at home the previous year.

The other guy did it as a "Professional" after beating a team his was 'supposed' to beat...at home...after a 15 day vacation to prepare (and fired up by a teammate who is a proven liar). That same guy quit on his team just last year to enhance his draft stock/status.

This is too easy.

It was just as easy to do both times.

Hmmmmm...........we have 3 people who actually "like" a post that refers to another poster a loser.

Richard Sherman Apologizes
https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/2780...-baker-mayfield

Actually, Nick Bosa did it with :04 left in the 2nd quarter. For all Intents and Purposes the game was over, but not really.

Without a doubt.

Sherman lies and the Baker haters use it to attack Baker.

Sherman is shown to be lying with video evidence... instead of retracting those attacks they basicakly said " well it could have been true so I don't need to apologize"

As i said ... as a Brown, Baker has stared down the ex HC who went on a media tour blaming everyone but himself for his 1-31 record .... and he made a comment about Duke when asked about Duke seeking a trade. THAT comment got blown out of all 0roportion and some haters even went as far as to basically lie and claim Duke left because of Baker .... pretty sad.

You can still be a sportsman with having a good rivalry talking a little smack, its not one or the other.

Mmmm hmmm. Trying to plant your flag on an opponents field is so sportsmanlike. Just not when somebody does it to us.

One guy was a college kid...one guy was a "Professional". Kind of a difference there.

How's that Sherman apology working for you and Vers? What about Vers' ESPN video?

YOU are butt-hurt about someone saying the "stats are for losers" mantra?

How are you liking Richard Sherman now? Sherman is set to apologize for being a liar. You have anything to say about that "video" now that you've lost yet-another agenda item?

Really? And one is still shooting his mouth off on a fairly regular basis.



You may wish to go back and look. I don't recall really saying anything about the hand shake. Make sure when you take a jab you have a target to swing at.

Yeah, Sherman still is, even in his apology. Glad you noticed that.

Well he certainly isn't alone in that department.

Uhhhh...no. No...he's not.

Don't bother him with facts. He's a keyboard expert on anything and everything.........and still burning fossil fuels to do it.

And you run around from forum to forum carrying over debates you continue to lose.

earth to arch. This is the pure football forum.

You seem to think that less than a month ago is ancient history. It's not.

Pit, when mayfield planted that flag on the block o I was looking for Andy katzenmoyer or James laurenitis to appear on the field and take his head off. that was then when baker was a sooner, this is now when baker is a brown. What bothers me is not what bosa did but how some so called browns fans seem to be reveling in the fact that bosa made baker’s life miserable during the game and got baker his comeuppance with the flag. For these folks it is like bosa is the hero and baker the villain. Baker is our qb.

I do think bosa’s gesture was meaningless since it was his home field. Now if he had planted it on the orange helmet I hope someone would have taken his head off.

I remember years past when we got on QBs for checking down too early and too often.. but this isn't then. We have a good running game and, for the most part, a pretty good defense.

I would much rather see Baker look at the checkdown half a second too early than half a second too late... get the 5 yards and run another play.

Could you name any “ shooting off the mouth” that baker has done as a brown that resulted in bulletin board material for our opponent. Anything else is just fluff. Well, that and an excuse for a small group of people on here to complain about baker. I honestly believe the sashi obsession has been replaced by the baker obsession.

...Actually, this is the "Looking Back..." forum.

It would be nice if everyone kept it to football, though.

You should have read my follow-up to Vers's follow-up, when I told him I thought it was classless when baker did it,

I said the same thing of Hue Jackson, that just because you call great plays, or that you have a great offensive/defensive mind, doesn't mean you are qualified to run the whole show.

The 53-man, practice squad, coaching staff, etc.. It's a lot.

Now, I'm not saying Freddie is Hue Jackson, but Jackson prior to the Browns was the hot candidate. And indeed, he does have a great offensive mind, but he failed in so many of those extra areas that appear when you become head coach.

Some of Freddie's play calls both last year and this year have been downright awesome. The shovel pass play to Landry. Mixing in both a successful pass and rush play with Odell Beckham Jr in the same half? Pretty innovative. He clearly can call plays.

But there is definitely a learning curve that is really getting to him, and I really hope he figures it out, because with that offensive mind, it would be an awesome thing to see, but there is no guarantee of that.

I think you have to really trust your coaching staff, and I don't think he's quite there yet. Hue Jackson failed there miserably. All the other coaches we've had pretty much failed there with maybe the exception of Romeo Crennel who completely understood the concept of leaning on your coordinators.

I said it before the season, that this was quite the jump, to go from a positional coach to an NFL head coach in less than a year. I think we need to be a little more patient with him. We're going to have some turd games this year, we've already had 2. We're going to have games like the Baltimore game where we look like actual contenders.

But man, he's gotta help his young QB out a hell of a lot more. He's doing him no favors right now.

j/c:

Thanks to Sperg for talking football. But just look at all the posts that have absolutely nothing to do w/football or the game itself and how many posters constantly attack and lie about other posters.

I really wish the Refs would put a stop to these guys ruining thread after thread because they have to resort to personal insults and character attacks instead of just making their points about the game and/or football.

Btw Sperg. I disagree w/almost every one of your takes in that particular post. But, that's okay. Because at least you are trying to talk about the game and football and are not resorting to the personal attacks and lies that so many others are engaging in.

I think having different opinions like you and I do in this particular situation is a good thing. It paints a more complete picture and there is no need to disparage the other poster to "win" an argument.

So, here is where I disagree w/you.

I think the biggest problem that Hue Jackson had was a team that lacked talent. Do you know how hard it is to keep a team playing hard and believing when your front office is tanking and getting rid of good players? Players on teams like the Dolphins gave up BEFORE the season. The players loved Hue. A couple didn't, but most of them did. His faults were that he talked too damn much and he was too easy on the guys. The penalties were on him. But, the guy was a great motivator and his play calling was actually good.

I also disagree that Freddie is the reason why Baker is not performing well. He's the same dude who turned around Baker's season last year. We are asking Baker to do more, but I think teams are catching up to Baker. He might very well be a system qb. I also think he plays hero ball, and guys like Steve Young are saying the same thing. Guys who have played the position in the freaking NFL. Not some guys on a message board like me.

Now, I don't know if Freddie is a good coach or not. Hell, one guy on here says I "hate Freddie." LOL I'm just saying that it's too early to write this guy off.

But again, I like your post and it's cool to debate w/out all the childish insults that dominate so many of these thread. Thanks for the discussion and I would actually welcome another post from you telling me why you disagree w/my takes.

His teams weren't talented, that I will give you, but not once when he was head coach, did I ever feel like he was getting everything out of his guys.

There's also that whole 3-36-1 thing. I can't blame talent on that. It's the NFL. Each of these guys is a unique talent. This wasn't a playoff roster, but I just never felt like he was getting everything out of his guys, and a lot of games, it felt like they were not prepared to play.

Okay. Thanks for keeping it to football.

You commented how the players loved Hue.

I don't think the players loved Hue nearly as much as you claim. I'd call it the opposite, maybe a couple loved him, but most did not.

I think the only player I can say definitively who loved Hue was Joe Thomas.

https://youtu.be/7O5W5su_vGo

Its not all Baker. Is there some on him, of course. The scheme, play calling, and execution is making him look bad.

I was just watching that video. Just so you know, bro...........it's a really bad take. There were guys open underneath on those plays. Baker "chose" to force the ball.

IMHO, Baker is a system QB, he never performed well in stress situations. He's a good system QB, and can be effective, but he will never carry the team, he is not that type of QB and Kitchens should know it.

once again, I never said made me mad lol.

You really need to go back and read. I said it sucked because we were on the receiving end of it from baker, and now on the receiving end of it from Bosa - but I had no problem with Baker or Bosa doing it. I think it was funny.

I'm not speaking for Sperg', but when I criticize Freddie, I'm not absolving Baker, and vice-versa. Baker has his issues, and Freddie has his issues, and they are both affecting each other's performance. The debate worth having, IMO, is how the ratio of blame should fall.

So I agree that Freddie isn't doing Baker any favors. That statement should be taken on its own, and not used to absolve Baker of blame.

Planting the flag on an opponents field was unsportsmanlike...

Getting retribution by re-planting the flag 2 years later when you have both moved on to different teams at a different level of football in a different environment is childish and petty...

How did you miss the part about disagreeing w/out resorting to personal attacks? LOL........it was a demonstration on how to disagree w/out bad-mouthing the other poster.

I think that, once again, the Browns killed themselves with stupid mistakes.

1st drive: 2nd and 10 becomes 2nd and 15 due to a false start on Brown.
Rams then have a 1 play, 83 yard TD drive.

2nd drive: INT. A what the heck???? throw.

Last drive of the 1st half: Callaway blew a sure TD by letting the ball bounce off of his hands into the air for an INT, and return it from their own goal line to their 49 yard line. They then score another TD, and instead of it being 14-10, it's 21-3.

The Browns then get lucky when the Niners miss a FG before the half.

Starting the 2nd half, the Niners score another TD to go up 28-3.

This was a poor game from Baker, but he had plenty of help.

I also have to wonder about PFF and their rankings. Scjobert has 11 solo tackles, (with 1 TFL) and gets a 30 rating for the game. Adarius Taylor has no tackles, and has a rating of over 50. Gotta call BS on that one.

How in the world did you take that as a personal attack? For a guy who throws a lot of stones, you sure have remarkably thin skin and don't seem to understand that YOU DO EXACTLY what you complain about in others...except YOU are usually the one doing it.

I didn't see that as a what the heck throw..

In the video it looks like Callaway is a couple steps behind him.. Baker is getting grabbed at release but if he throws that ball another 3 yards its probably a touchdown.

It was no less childish and petty the first time. Putting a different label on it doesn't change that.

Unless of course you wish to use the "NFL officials" line of thinking. We don't throw a penalty flag on the person who initiated the fight. We only throw the flag on the person who reciprocates.

Most unsportsmanlike behavior is also childish and petty.. sorry you took my different terms as defending or excusing one more than the other.. I was just using the words that had already been used..

Hey oober, I guess I have to clarify something. I was NOT saying your post to me was a personal attack. I think you know that, but I felt the need to explain just in case.

What I was saying that my reply to Sperg was an example of how to disagree w/out mentioning a thing about the other person's character, morals, etc. Just so you know, I would not have even replied to Sperg's post and would gladly have let it stand unchallenged. I was just trying to show how one can disagree w/out making things personal.

Hopefully, this thread will be locked soon.

Yeah, I think they highlighted the play even ... Kush got pushed back just enough into Baker to make him underthrow it by a few yards

I saw one of the guys on ESPN break down that play. I think it was Dan Orlovsky. He said Baker should have thrown it to the guy who was open in the intermediate area and it was a bad decision because Callaway was bracketed. There was another defender over the top of Callaway. It was a poor decision, especially since he was being pressured.

It’s another example of the lack of progression that he has during each play. Unless he starts to shift his attention to the backside of plays (or checkdowns) instead of going to his first read that’s a HR ball ... we’ll struggle

They asked Mayfield about Bosa's "flag plant" at a presser yesterday and he said "Good for him. Its been two years - that's a long time to think about a loss.". You could imagine him winking while he said it. He clearly doesn't place a lot of currency in all this smack-down drama, whether its outgoing or incoming, even if the media and the fans do.

Well I will respectfully disagree with Dan then.. the only other deep defender is #20 who is running diagonally in a sprint trying to catch Callaway because he sees what I see, if that ball gets over Sherman, there is nobody back there.

If you go to the link provided and pause it on the 5 second spot, the underneath guy has two LBs in front of him, a safety trailing, Sherman in front.. Callaway is absolutely breaking wide open behind it all.. If Baker had another half second, it's a TD... fitting it into the underneath guy would have been difficult.

I read that part and agree with it. I was trying to do the same. I read a lot of these posts that make it sound like it's all Freddie's fault or all Baker's fault... and because it's all the one's fault the other shoulders 0 blame. I don't agree with that take (whether it was intended by the respective poster or not). I'm not even saying you are doing this, just simply further explaining and clarifying my pov. I believe both Mayfield and Kitchens are stinking it up, and their individual stinkiness adds to the other's. I also believe both have shown enough that they can be the respective 'guys' at their positions on this team.

What is our progression tree? Does anyone know? Is it right to left, left to right, short to deep, deep to short .........?

They’ve said deep to short many times that I can recall, and given our current problems that seems to be the case

I just see so many people talking about scheme, but we don't really know what the scheme is. We can have opinions, but we just don't know for sure how his read progression is supposed to go.

I would also be interested in how often we are in max protect vs 3 or 4 receiver sets. Last year we made max protect work well for us. This year ..... not so much.

Much has been made of Baker holding the ball too lone, and perhaps part of that is scheme, as well, if he is reading deep to short.

I also don't know why we aren't using more screens. The Niners ran one against us that went for a big gain .... allowing the DL to penetrate and then a nice little toss top a wide open back out of the backfield. Man, we have a great RB in Chubb, and capable ones in Hilliard and Johnson. I don't know why we aren't using them to give the defense something to think about.

I also do think that missing 2 of Baker's main targets, in Higgins and Njoku, has hurt him. Some say "excuses!", but I think that he established a trust with those 2 guys. I think that missing them hurts the team, and Baker.

I do think that the Bye week will be important for the Browns coaching staff to watch all of the tape, and get this mess straightened out. We have a lot of problems on this team. About the only area that has been mostly consistently effective is special teams. We really need to get the offense and defense straightened out.

It was a great quote and moment in the presser. He handled that and the questions about Sherman well yesterday.

Wonder how long he will think about Monday's loss, and the massive turd he laid there.

IMO, a QB has to be like a relief pitcher and have a short memory. If a game blows up on you, you have to be able to file it and forget it. (The only proviso being that you have to be able to retain any lessons that you learned in that loss.)

Agree 100%. The time to go back and stew over losses and poor performances is immediately after said game, and after the end of the season. When the team starts preparing for the next opponent, that previous game is officially ancient history.

I agree w you, a QB needs a short memory.

In some ways I agree and in other ways not so much. If he can't look back on his mistakes and learn from them, how will he ever improve?

Hopefully he is done thinking about it. We have Seattle Sunday and that is the only game he should be thinking about.

There is a reason why Mayfield was drafted #1 overall and why so many teams coveted him.

I have no problem w/you disagreeing. You did so w/out the insults that others resort to.

I will only add that that was a long pass and those guys can travel great distances in that amount of time. There was also a receiver running the intermediate middle that was wide open. I have no problem w/you disagreeing, but I still think it was dumb-ass throw.

This guy is like captain obvious.

I agree ... he’s just not showing that at the moment and we’ve gotten away from stuff that he’s good at doing. He’s gotta improve and so does everyone else

Getting away from things he is good at doing is a coaching problem.

Yep. I bet the coaching staff is telling him to throw into double coverage twice as much as the next ranked guy. I bet the coaching staff is telling him to pass up open receivers and hold the ball and then try to outrun dudes who are faster than him. I bet the coaches are telling him to sail balls way over the receiver's heads.

Fire Freddie. Fire 'em all!!!!

Freddie is a crappy coach, and I'll be glad when all of them are gone after this season. And we can bring in some quality coaching candidates.