Well, we didn’t roll over.....but we still got smacked hard for our last home game of the season.

Our defense tried. Especially the 1st half, they tried their asses off.

But man.....our offense is so pathetic. Disorganized, still getting penalized, and so many other things.

Baker mayfield....not clutch. Again, passes sailing high and wide. Being thrown behind receivers. However, he also had 3-4 drops from receivers, two I think from Harris. But mayfield could’ve easily had 2 more picks to go with his 1.

We didn’t commit to the run yet again as a team. Chubb had 45 yards. As a team we rushed for 49.

THREE DIFFERENT PLAYERS for the ravens had more than us, and Lamar by himself had over 100.

Freddie needs to go.

So it’s a lump of coal again this year...

More questions than answers going into next season.

Haslam needs to hire manning as a consultant and make baker sit with him all offseason. 8-5 working on reading defense per/post snap. How to use his eyes and footwork. Spending whole summer breaking down tape. If baker refuses, draft one

This was my thought too

Since we’re just going to have another losing season, it’s time to jettison the dead weight for this season.

At least I won’t have to hear from Freddie about he’s just going 1- 0 next week.

Mayfield needs to improve yes, but that won't happen under these coaches, our OL needs to be improved through the draft and FA, and I hope the new coaches figure out that Chubb is our best Offensive weapon which in turn will open the passing game for Baker and our WR's ...

I agree with this.

I thought Baker had said something about changing his offseason a couple weeks back. But what I think he said was that they need to treat OTAs importantly but kind of shut down the thought he needed to do more on his own. I don't think there is a work ethic issue with Baker but I'm not comfortable he's going to put in the work or knows what work to put in.

Penalties, showboating with watches and shoes, sidelined bickering etc. and so on.
This thing is a big, smelly mess! An unmitigated disaster all the way around

I don't know what they do. Heck, I'm close to not caring what they do. I dont think status quo will cut it going into next season. Saw NOTHING to indicate this staff figured ANYTHING out all season.

I'll just throw up my hands, wish all a Merry, SAFE Christmas and hope someone knows what ails this franchise.

Their lack of relying on Chubb as their primary weapon has been apalling all year. How an NFL head coach doesn't recognize that while fans do is beyond me.

I don't think Freddie has lost the team. We were in the lead with a taped together DL.

In the end, Baltimore's offensive talent was too much.

Our offense needs cleaned up. Our short yardage running game isn't good. It kills us in the redzone. I like Tretter, but he's been injured a lot. OTs and TEs not great blocking on the edges.

More near misses such as the pass off Harris' fingertips.

We need more precision. I don't think changing things will help with that.

I mean damn guys.....this was the 2nd week where all the help we needed to get into the playoffs happened. The Steelers lost, the colts won, and the titans are down by 10.

But once again, OUR team can’t take care of business.

Man......I was born in 87. I’m tired of highlighting history of his team I wasn’t even apart of. Trying to get my kids to watch browns games but they hate it cause we always lose. Even the bengals had a run where dalton was taking them to the playoffs like 5 years in a row.

This crap blows.

Freddie just doesn't inspire me. Up with a buck and change left in the half, Ravens out of timeouts and you dial up three pass plays that fall incomplete.
I know you have to execute, but man. . .

When you want to run Chubb at the goalline, you get no blocks, you stupidly go for two and you don't catch. Harbaugh figures Wilks out, Wilks just wilts. Odell needs told where to line up, he yells at Freddie on the sidelines, Jarvis too . . .

At least my wife was baking Christmas cookies and I got to taste test quite a few!

Merry Christmas to all!

Baker had so much success last year that it is hard not to think he got cocky in the off season. Hopefully, this has humbled him. He can still play like he did. I think.

Discipline falls right in Freddies lap

Fire Freddie. He’s clueless on offense. We need an o-line. We drastically need some team/player discipline. The loss of MG really killed our D. Worst penalized team in the league.

I like what one of the commentators questioning why a team with the leagues leading rusher is (now) 6-9.

I’m not hopeful against theBungles.

And the jury is still out for me on Baker. His height has been a huge disadvantage this year.

It was watchable until 2min left in half and Freddies tries the trick play on 3rd and 1...disaster unsued following that...it is just mind numbing to watch.

Ravens receivers open by five or more yards on many plays. How does that happen? Is our defensive schema that bad or our player so dumb they can't recognize what is going on? In either case the defense still lacks talent and coaching...not obvious what they are trying to do.

And I am soooo sick and tired of our after play antics by OBJ. Catch the ball, hand it to the ref, and ACT LIKE YOU HAVE DONE IT BEFORE! That crap by OBJ on Ravens sideline was so bush league...and it hurts the team when it undoes a big play.

Kind of done with Fred....but not my call.

The Ravens are a 12-2 team that steamrolled most teams. We were within one score in the 4th (well, if we had kicked the PAT). One stop after our 15th point, who knows.

The defense played well, but not well enough.

J/C

Are we gonna talk about the game or just bitch?

Our D did as much as it could, but when you’re relying on backups on DL against a team like that, you likely get beat.

and the Baker-bashing for the most part is unwarranted. Overall he was pretty solid, was under duress too often but delivered strikes when he could plant and deliver.

I agree that he has to treat this off-season in a mindset of working like hell on his weaknesses.

Lamar is amazing and I hate him for it.

Seibert missed another PA. You usually end up chasing that one point the whole game.

Can we not cover tight ends? Why are they running free so often? Is it because we were focussed on stopping the run today? If so, understandable. I guess.

The game changed in that awful last two minutes of the first half. That was ugly and embarrassing.

frankly, we got beat by a better team.

Don't know what game you were watching but Baker was not solid.

Don’t agree and I’m not going to argue about it with you.

Baker got pressured a bit, but he wasn’t even sacked today.

More than ‘a bit’, swish. He wasn’t engulfed all the time, but was consistently harassed imo.

Some mechanical flaw is causing him to throw high...alot!

Bottom line is no matter what at this point we have a worse record than last year, after supposedly adding a whole lot of assets to the team. Someone has to be held accountable. Can't really blame it on injuries either..This was one of the healthiest seasons we've had, particularly on offense

With some new players, new coaches and no expectations we can start fresh next year and hopefully do better. This season has been a mess since game one and isn't any better after game 15. On the postgame show Phil Simms was comparing Baltimore to us and said nonsense come out of Cleveland every week. I'm inclined to agree.

How about Greg Roman as HC?

That makes sense so we won't hire him.

The end of the first half epitomized our poor season. Bad management, a folding defense, bad play calling, etc

One more loss and we get a new HC

The men at the bar were very fun.

More fun than watching crappy Browns football.

Let's start on a better foot next season.

Team performed way below it's potential all season. They were Undisciplined, committed too many stupid penalties, and too many bad coaching decisions ruined what should have been a playoff season. Just one more game then hopefully Kitchens will be done! Dorsey did a great job regarding player personnel but his biggest mistake was promoting Kitchens to HC. Something that didn't need to be done.

I said the same thing a couple weeks or so ago.What he's done with Lamar is exceptional and I'd love to see what he could do to help Baker reach his potential plus it could also help us by taking him away from Lamar and Baltimore

I think a team that many considered a legitimate SB contender before the season not making the playoffs, or not even having a winning record, is enough to get a new HC.

I’d be okay with Roman

Ill conceived offense and poorly executed.


Most of the offensive plays it looked the Ravens knew every play right off the formations.

Honestly I have no clue what Randall is doing?

Once the Ravens got to the two minute mark of the first half they just blew us out from there.

Outside of the special team coach this team needs to bring in a new staff.

It is obvious the team has little respect for Freddie.

Oh well another losing season in the books.

Over and out till the draft.

-Sheldon Richardson was flat out dumb today...seemed like he wanted to get kicked out...He was doing it multiple times today...yet none of our leaders or coaches told him to knock it off? ...just dumb

-Did obi play? didn't hear his name called one time

-Our DES whom were forced to start, belong on the practice squad

-Scho looked off beat, slow reacting and often near invisible today

-Taki does not belong seeing the field, I said it when we drafted him...He looks lost in all sorts. Mack Wilson plays with great energy, not sure if the defense is allowing him to "lurk" or if that's part of his zone...but I notice it a lot.

-Randall is not happy, and I could of sworn he gave up before the half.

-S Tierre Thomas blows

-Greedy actually tackled very well mostly today.

-TE's dropped way too many easy balls today...why are we still holding Njoku back? He drops passes too...but least he stretched the D some.

-Baker threw some awful passes, lucky he didn't have 3 interceptions today. Also threw some nice ropes down the field too. His whole setup delivery mechanics are awful, he is playing backyard football and no coaching has stepped up and improved on it.

-Wyatt Teller struggles a lot, Hubbard didn't seem as bad as usual. Greg Robinson stinks as usual, wiffs on blocks too much and moves like a RG.

-OBJ...still doesn't know he is supposed to line up, saw at least twice Baker having to take time away from his snap to redirect him where to go....smh

-Hunt looks to be a better receiver than OBJ...

-Ratley doesn't belong on the field

-Freddie...Man, I don't see logic in firing a coach after one year, but I do this year. Just watched his interview, he has no idea what's going on on his own sidelines with his own players??? That's uncalled for...I won't even get to how awful his plays and formations are set...the lack of the players still not being on the same page, and the lack of discipline on this entire team. I truly believe Freddie Kitchens would coach the NE Patriots to 5 wins max...This guy just has no idea on what he is doing.

-Can we please open the draft talk link

Late lining up on offense all year.

including on KEY plays

I rarely agree with anyone 100 percent in football posts, but the last couple of weeks when I’ve read your posts on the team, I’m like, yeah, no reason for me to post because this is spot on.

This is another one of those times.

I’m only surprised at the people who are still making excuses for this team. This team has shown no improvement, no discipline, and no reason to believe that continuity would be a good thing.

Agreed, it’s counterproductive to keep FK past next Sunday. It simply isnt working

Anybody notice that when we run on the goal line the Oline is moving sideways when the play starts? I don't get it.

Kitchens is going to cost Chubb the rushing title

I was a much bigger fan of Phil Simms as a player than as a talking head - but this point about the nonsense and distractions coming from within is one more reason i want McCarthy or Rivera as the HC. Experience with enough authority to prevent the self destruction and drama.

Post Game thoughts? . . . I think Lamar Jackson might be Tony Romo's illegitimate love child. He clearly loves Lamar just a little too much when ordinary plays get worshiped and praised to the highest.

Sterling effort for 28 minutes on D. But we had no answer at all once they cut loose and opened up their Offense. I think part of that was they were vanilla (saving plays for post season I believe) until they realized they might not win without opening up some.

On O - Baker was pretty decent for the first half. I think as the game went on the play calling leaned more towards passing and it was as if we'd used our best pass plays vs the blitz up. Some accuracy issues but we didn't lose because of Baker. Chubb was neutralized and as usual we deserted the run too easily. . . . was annoyed with Romo (again) this time chastising Baker for the trow to Hilliard where Hilliard took the big hit. BM was under pressure pretty swiftly, he looked over at his check down option that was open and running flat towards the sideline. Impossible for Baker to check to see whose out there potentially ready to tackle Hilliard before he makes the throw, that idea/statement from Romo was dumb.

Oh well - Baltimore is ascending and we are still bumping along still trying to figure out what direction we are going to go. At least I have Lamar in both my FF finals and he scored enough points to keep me in one, and win the other.

Yes! I pointed out how much we move laterally inside the 10 too

On Romo's criticism of Baker on the throw to Hilliard...what on earth would Tony Romo, a Pro Bowl caliber QB for many years, know about making those throws? He clearly doesn't know what he's talking about.

So all Pro Bowl caliber players speak truth when on TV, all the time, every take?

Got it.

It does. I was thinking they are running zone and they're getting burned as the Ravens fill gaps.

Bad call, bad play design. . . .

McCarthy isn't coming here, not unless Dorsey is no longer part of the Browns.

The Browns reach out to McCarthy last year wanting to hire him, and Dorsey insisted on McCarthy keeping kitchens as OC, and McCarthy declined the job because of it.

https://247sports.com/nfl/cleveland-brow...hens-127627640/

https://twitter.com/RuiterWrongFAN/status/1083072080046968833

Highly doubtful Riveria will come here either, not unless Dorsey is not here. Dorsey won't hire a guy like Rivera who he could lose a power struggle with like he did Reid. Riveria has a winning record as a HC in the league, held the Carolina job for 10 years, has a Super Bowl appearance. This means Rivera has clout, lots of it, which means, push comes to shove Haslam will listen to Rivera...which means Dorsey could be pushed out...won't happen unless Haslam is already planning on canning Dorsey.

I also don't think Urban Meyer will come here either. Not as long as Dorsey is here. You need to look at this from the outside looking in.Coaches are a tight knit fraternity. Don't think other coaches were not watching when Dorsey traded Hyde away in 2018 because Jackson wouldn't play his draft pick and the HC found out about it on ESPN that night. Urban isn't stupid, and that stuff won't fly with him. Even though Dorsey was right about Chubb, no way Meyer will put up with that kinda backstabbing BS undermining. Urban Meyer will want input on roster and the draft, the guy is good(infact probably better than Dorsey) at identifying good football talent from the college ranks. Dorsey won't go for that.

Simply put, McCarthy, Riveria, and Urban Meyer are not coming here unless Dorsey is out of the picture. If Haslam decides to retain Dorsey, we will have an NFL coordinator/Assistant as our next head coach not named Josh McDaniels.

Why would he lie?

80% chance Kitchens is fired at end of season!

Maybe Dorsey is humbled a bit by his failure with Junior Samples?

Hey I know you blame Baker for everything including the way the D plays. That's up to you. If you have a take and want to disagree on whether Baker needs to be omnipotent, go ahead spell it out. Knock yourself out.

- Up at the game today, crowd chanting, "Chubb! Chubb! Chubb!" again to remind Freddie Chubb is the best RB in the NFL.

- The 3rd down plays calls, especially the one to Hunt, were hysterically vintage Kitchens play calls. Failed miserably.

- The Raven -10 was an obvious and easy Christmas bonus.

- Crowd was in it for awhile until the Ravens decided to actually try in this game.

- Seibert misses another extra point.

- OBJ finally got a TD. Also drew a PI on a pass to the end zone.

- Denzel had a nice stick on a TE.


Sadly, the Browns and fans alike, enjoyed the traditional Christmas beat down at home. Same old Browns.

- The Ravens clinching home field advantage throughout the playoffs in Cleveland was fitting for this season.

In other words, you have no answer.

BS - you are such a hater, it is not funny. He made perfect pass after perfect pass and you know what he got for it. Nada, nunca, niente. Dropped pass after dropped pass.

So tired of your spiel. From Harris, to Ratley, to OBJ (great play by Peters). He put the ball on the money. D lost this game plain and simple. 8 minutes of hell betweem EO 2nd amd beginning of 3rd. See randall and company. Don't cover their main receiving threat. Gee...

ahh yes, the idiots yelling Chubb, Chubb, Chubb. Beatiful. You what that did, made everyone in the stadium including the Ravens knew what was coming. what did we get for that - 5 yards. Brilliant. Perfect opportunity to PA pass, but no, run it straight it into their D twice. Brilliant...

Even fans have adopted the loser mentality that is the Cleveland Browns. Mediocrity is defined as a success, unlimited patience is tolerated/expected and losing is always excused away.

Essentially, it's the mental antithesis of successful organizations.

Bingo !

J/c

Wasn’t Randall talking earlier this week about how really good he is? Chump needs to take a hike.

We have no real downfield threat so let’s tell Njoku to stay home. Smh

I turned the game off after our first series of the second half. I was 50/50 about wasting time to watch it to begin with. At this point i could care less about next week.

Your contention is the Ravens were only prepared for Chubb to run the ball because the fans were chanting his name? I wonder how they have run off 11 straight wins then?

People keep complaining we don't use Chubb enough, then we do and it was stupid to do so....

It is when everybody and the their brother knows it is coming.

Lindley.

I and I am sure Baker is missing Zampese.

My answer was my first post which was my take.

You on the other hand have pretty much nada - other than trying to create discord. If you disagree with my take - have at it. . . . but that's not what you are doing.

I really can't fathom why anyone would still want Kitchens around at this point.

I would say it's a forgone conclusion that he's out.

So who is our next guy? I would hope for river boat Ron, he's a proven winner. I think he could do some positive things for this roster. I'm sure I'll be laughed at, but give me a proven guy.

Secured our 12th losing season in a row.... factory of sadness...

The only one who said that was the fat guy. Everybody else was just quoting him.

I found a way to give them the appropriate amount of time/attention. We played our last holiday joint this afternoon at 4 PM. I found other stuff to do while the game recorded, then went to work. Came home to dinner (shrimp creole) and speed-watched the game (think: NFL Replay). It's great- I can shut Tony Romo down like an MVP, back the tape up for important plays, etc... and see the game start to finish in about 90 min.

My playback has some nuance, as well. At points when the game tightens up and gets interesting, I'll let the tape roll. Get a real-time feel play to play. Case in point: the last 2 min of the first half. That's when I watched the Browns hand BAL a win. Those offensive play calls when all we needed was a first down.... well, they were just that: offensive.

This Keystone Kops season can't be over soon enough for me. I was always one of the fans with tempered expectations from the start, but I had no idea this team would look so sloppy, undisciplined and amateur. That's what has me football-numb like every other December Sunday. It's been a wholotta ugly with not nearly enough pretty to keep me interested.

They can have 90 min of my time. They can't have my entire afternoon. They refuse to earn it. That's their fault, not mine. I do my job when they do theirs. Give/get. That's how this works.

All Saints Catholic Church is a modern, arched ceiling greatroom with super echo-y boomy acoustics. The crowd is always a bit more raucous than others, and the gig is freewheeling because it's the last one before holiday break. Always a good time, after a long slog (25 concerts in 25 days/over 1K road miles). Last piece is always 'Sleigh Ride.' Everyone has a hat/set of antlers/prop of some sort that we slap on just before the encore. I have a pair of Bootsy Collins-type shades shaped like Christmas trees... and yes, they blink. And you know that horse laugh at the end of the piece- the one that's played by the first trumpet? At All Saints, it sounds like a zoo. One of our horns can do a great elephant, I do a great cow, our 2nd oboe can sound like a startled duck... it's a blast. And- All Saints also feeds you well at intermission. Great way to close out the first half of the season.

I'll send you the Creole recipe. You will volunteer money out of sheer gratitude.

So you see- my day was pretty damn good, pretty damn full. The Browns were the least important part of a positive productive day. Perspective has its perks.

Here's where we played today. Imagine temp flooring turning the alter area into one single level.

Maybe because Kitchens, as Head Coach, is the 1st coach in a long, long time to beat every team in the division in the same season.

It sometimes takes a new head coach a little while to settle in. Sometimes pieces that looked like good hires around him just don't work, and the staff needs to be adjusted. Sometimes position groups just don't work at all. (OL, TE, etc)

People act like this team established that they were supposed to contend for the Super Bowl last year. It's obvious that they were not. The team had a much harder schedule last year, and played hard enough to beat a couple of playoff teams, and a team that was in the #6 position until the end of this week. We will have played 7 games against playoff teams, in total .. plus 2 against the Steelers .... and 1 against the Rams.

People freak out .... but I hope we don't go dumping yet another 1st year head coach because of them.

None of the other coaches got to face a steeler team missing every one of their offensive weapons and a bungle team picking first in the draft. If FK showed any sign at all that he can improve with some staff adjustments, I'd be there with you. He kept making the same mistakes over and over. It seems like he's incredibly stubborn and won't face the fact that some things aren't working...and his pressers bear that out. I don't want to see him back here next year.

because this staff has managed to put a worse record than a team with hue jackson and an interim coach did with more talent then they had

Lol. Blaming the fans for a failed play call is so Cleveland.

Chubb wasn't even in the game when the fans were chanting 'Chubb'.

It's the fans fault. I'm in tears!

Yes, I'm sure Harbaugh was thinking, "they're going to pass here, oh wait, the fans are chanting Chubb, we better watch out for him now."

Holy smokes is that mindless.

I guess we now know how all those coaches and players who said we were predictable were able to predict ! Lol

What's mindless, is running the ball right into the line when there are 10 men lined up defending the run at goal line.

Chubb ran the ball on back to back plays after the first down and lost 5 yards, and yes the fans were chanting for him throughout the whole series.

Probably because enough people would rather watch Nick Chubb get the ball literally every play so at the very least they had something consistently worth rooting for.

If only Landry and OBJ were on the field for that play call on 3rd down when the crowd was calling for Chubb.

Maybe it wouldn't have been so obvious we were running the ball.


Who would want their best 2 wide receivers (both pro bowlers) on the field during a critical point in the game?

Not Freddie that's for sure.

Maybe he is getting the bighead cause he is in so many commercials. Needs to focus on his job first.

I don't think it is going to take another loss, so lets win the game. Freddie can't manage a football game and team from a coaching standpoint. Another win or loss isn't going to change that.

Maybe next week OBJ can do his chin wave thing again. I won't miss this crap.

What exactly is that, anyway?

A cursory look gave me this:

Flicking fingers under chin
The chin flick.
Brushing the back of your hand underneath your chin in a flicking motion means “get lost” in Belgium, northern Italy, and Tunisia. In France, this gesture is known as la barbe (”the beard”) and is the hand-sign equivalent of macho grandstanding.

I'm assuming he's using the French version, la barbe.

Otherwise I had no clue and could have meant he had fleas.

What’s mindless is calling passing plays at the 1 yard line on 1st and goal.

JC...I always thought OBJ was doing that thing off of little rascals lol

Also forgot to mention anyone else see Larry Ogunjobi huddled up near the offense on the sideline during a break or timeout...I was wondering if they were going to put him in at FB for a play, however they obviously changed the play as he never went out there...I'm pretty sure we at a goal line situation.

Just some random thoughts,,

I still believe that Mayfield can be "The Guy"

The D isn't very good without Vernon and Garrett.

Kitchens isn't the answer, sorry to say, like the guy,

Wilks had these guys playing pretty well for what he had to work with.

Not sure what Monkin does.

Some of the receptions by Landry and OBJ show me that they are for real.

What the heck is up with Njoku. Injured? Dog House? What?

What the heck is up with Higgens? Dog House? What?

I don't understand what Kitchens is doing. Such innovation last season, and this year, falls flat on his face. I don't get it.

I have no problem with giving a 1st year HC a little slack, the problem is, FK has not shown ONE OUNCE of improvement, ONE single iota of understanding game management, and his game time decision making has actually been getting worse.

I mean, honestly, you take a timeout just to punt? Let the clock wind down, take the delay - and then punt. Save the time out and give your punter an extra 5 yards. HE IS AN IDIOT.

The only person the staff that has not had success is Freddie. You see, Monken has had success in the league as an OC. Heck, even Wilkes. Freddie? He had 8 games of success. And that is arguably under someone else's playbook mind you. This is not a normal situation. Freddie had no experience to lean on. Freddie has no success in the past to look at and say "this is why we will stick with him". And Freddie is not learning at all.

Do you realize with a MEDIOCRE HC we are in the playoffs, right? Like not even a good one, a half decent one. Freddie and his gameday decisions, and management of the clock etc has cost us games. He has not won us a single game. The team's talent has won us games in spite of FK.

They cannot fire FK fast enough.

Let's mail it in next week. Bunglers will appreciate a win and still get their QB. Doesn't mean much to us., so it can be another baffling "game day decision" by FK. Then next season we can start the season "1-0" all season long. After they showed the fire in their belly and went to overtime yesterday, we may have a MAJOR trap game song.

Exactly what will Monken do this week?

I was only able to watch first half. I was so disgusted I lost all appetite for the second half. FK and the Dreamers didn't disappoint. They met ally expectations, sad to say.

We have the same record as the Jets. That's disheartening.

They way we finished out the half and let Baltimore score twice is beyong any reasoning or logic.

That alone deserves firing. FC has no concept of game management, and is not learning after 15 weeks.

Yes - because no team ever does Play Action at the goal line and hits the wide open Receiver as the D goes all out to stop the run.

Unfortunately, this team passes at the goal line without the illusion of running the ball (ie. empty backfield).

Here's a thought FK, go 3 TE look with Chubb in the backfield. Take the snap under center, fake the handoff to Chubb and throw to an open and reliable catching TE not named Demetrius Harris (ie. Carlson).

Ouch.

And, their starting QB was out a month with the cooties.

This season cannot end fast enough.

J/C

Has anyone asked Freddie why he took a time out to punt? #askingforafriend

I plan to bitch about the game.

What happened at the end of the first half can't happen. Most teams, with the ball and 3-4 minutes on the clock are thinking about scoring... our team needs to think about how to give them the ball back without enough time for them to score... and we failed at that, not only did we give it back to them with time to score, we gave it back to them with time to score again.

Defense played great for 28 minutes.. the last 2 minutes of the first half and the entire second half, they were barely a speed bump. Got manhandled and pushed around up front, secondary was confused and out of position a lot, guys running wide open. Little dump offs into the flats and the guy is 8 yards downfield before a Browns defender comes into the screen... They were the definition of "on their heels"..

The offense... I don't know what to think other than it has to be the coaching and playcalling. It just seems like we have to work 10x harder than other teams to get the same results. I know that NFL QBs are expected to make NFL throws but every single one of Baker's throws seems like it needs to be near perfect.. while Lamar has guys running all alone down the field.. I think the biggest difference in Baker and Lamar in throwing the ball is that Lamar throws with more touch, Baker seems to try to throw everything 100 mph, generally because the coverage is always right there.

I get the cries that we should have used Chubb more but he wasn't getting big yardage and if you can't convert first downs, you can't just keep running the ball. This was another game where their defense appeared to know what play was coming.. Chubb was regularly running to a side that had more defenders that blockers.

I believe Freddie was elevated up the ladder much too fast. I like the guy, he needs to take a step back, be and OC somewhere for a while, or maybe go be a college coach, his temperament seems like it might fit college football better.. If he's here next year I'll be rooting for him but with each passing week, I'm hoping more and more that he's not.

I find that I don't make good decisions without all the correct facts in front of me . Can't for the life of me figure out what happened to the Kitchens play caller from the second half of last year ?? Can't be the same guy we saw on the sidelines this season ..

you know, perfect, someone else was complaining Freddie ran two running plays into a stacked defense at the goal line. You are complaining he threw a pass on first down at the goal line. A week ago someone else was complaining that Freddie called a pass play. He/she didn’t mind a pass but Freddie called the “wrong pass play”. When you have so many smart play callers on a message board it is dang near impossible to please them all.

On the bright side, if we decide to fire Freddie, and I hope we don’t, we will have a tremendous number of play callers to choose from without leaving dawg talkers.i

Maybe we can petition the NFL to allow us to call plays by poll in the K-9 forum.

I'd support that

I get it.. when the play works, play callers look like geniuses.. the balance between play call vs execution... yep, I get it.

We have a horribly low success rate in a lot of these situations, so are you saying it's all about execution?

I'm not an NFL recognized play caller, heck I'm not even one of the board expert play callers... I stopped playing football in the 6th grade.. but based on watching it a lot, if I, from the comfort of my couch, can sit and watch the Browns and.. taking into consideration game situation, down and distance, and formation... tell you what play is coming and be right more than half the time... then I'm damn sure defensive specialists who actually study such things can be right far more often than me.

Whatever we are doing, we are tipping our hand, we are predictable... 3 or 4 different defenses said after playing us that they knew what was coming before we ran it and if they knew, odds are that other teams knew as well... I don't care how talented you are or how well you execute, you aren't going to be very successful trying to run plays against a defense that knows what you are going to do. It is that lack of deception and creativity that really scare me about bringing Freddie back... because I'm not sure it's something you can just "learn" but rather it's something you have...

Another thing: Seibert has been decent, but his XPs still concern me

Zane Gonzo has been excellent this year.

Yes, Siebert has been ok - but he still shows issues. I have believe he will though.

Yeah zane’s been good

He was 28-32 in PATs this year. He missed his very first one ever and there was a 15 yard penalty on one that made it nearly 50 yards...

And he missed zero FGs from insider 40 yards.. was 8-11 from 40-49 and 1-2 from over 50.. I remember 2 of the misses from 40-49, well struck balls that the wind blew 25 feet offline.. he will just have to learn that over time.

Overall I'd say he had a very good year for a rookie kicker who plays in one of the tougher stadiums to kick.

The saddest part is that he only kicked 32 PATs... that's sad.. Justin Tucker kicked 57 PATs...

I think that he did well in the stadium that is probably in the top 3 hardest for a kicker to kick in.

I would sum up my feelings this way... Austin Seibert was not the problem.

Hes not, but lets be honest, we didn't know who the kicker was going into week one until the final cut day IIRC. That was an issue that shouldn't have been if you ask me. We are lucky, very lucky - he has so far panned out. I look forward to a long career with him.

But lets be honest, its not like the kid was a lock coming into this season.

You cannot miss as many xtra points like Seibert has.

How many has he missed 4 or 5??

He must go along with Freddie.

That's just a bad take IMO.

He can get better, surely. But the difference with Siebert vs. Freddie - Siebert has shown he has talent and can get better. Freddie has not.

Statistically he was probably the best rookie kicker in the NFL this year... his numbers are also better than Phil Dawson when he was a rookie in 1999... so there is that.

I'm sure we will bring in some people to challenge him in camp, if one of them beats him out it's not like I'm going to lose any sleep over it... but if we go into the season with Seibert again next year it's also not something I'm going to lose sleep over.

Dc, I was going to comment on your earlier post but you have had three good ones in a row.i do appreciate your stats on siebart. We already gave up on Gonzalez too early, I hope we don’t repeat the mistake with siebart.

Your comment earlier about the “problem with the offense must be coaching and playcalling” seems to presume a lot. Bill Walsh could call the plays and if lineman don’t block, receivers don’t run the proper routes and qb does not throw accurate passes then the playcalling is for naught.

Dc, a few weeks ago Freddie was an idiot because on our 5 he had a pass play called and an empty backfield. Baker had not even turned around when two defenders sacked him. But the play did not fail because of the formation of play all, it failed because two lineme failed miserably at doing their job.

Yesterday Freddie called a terrible play because he called that little pitch to Kareem, I think, and he was gonna throw a short pass to an open receiver. The played failed, not because it was a bad playcall, but because somebody did not block the linebacker and he was all over Kareem before he could do anything.

I listen to about every press conference Freddie gives after the game. I have yet to hear him call out a player for failing to perform. He says he has to call better plays and do a better job getting them in position to succeed. He never throws anyone under the bus, except himself.

I think it is easy to blame playcalling and not look at where the breakdowns really occur. But continuing to play musical chairs with our coaches will continue to give us the same results.

Ok, what about the litany of other issues with Freddie? The lack of discipline, the penalties, the idiotic game time decisions, the depth cart questions, inexcusabile use of timeouts or lack thereof, throwing 3 pass yesterday to allow Balt 2 scores before the half? Players not being able to get lined up correct, former players saying that a 3 and whatever team is more organized then they are.....the list goes on and on.

Yes, you make a good point and kickers are a dime a dozen.

Yes, I agree with you also.

Freddie is the most important one to go out the door.

I disagree with that. Most games in the NFL are within a few points. A good Kicker can make all the difference in a playoff push, or winning a championship. Ask Pittsburgh last year. If Boswell didn't struggle for them, they run away with the division - he did, and they missed the playoffs.

How many SB would NE have if they had a bad kicker? How many playoff games did Manning lose in Indy because of his Kicker?

I would actually contend that K is one of the top 5 most important positions on the team.

It did fail because it was an empty backfield....Most coaches would have known our line was suspect and left a blocker/dumpoff option/perceived running threat back there. Freddie always seems to go against what common sense tells him.



It was a bad play call. Another in a multitude of failed gimmick plays. We can't even line up correctly for traditional plays, let alone that crap. We need to get the basics down before trying to be cute. The blocking schemes were probably technically very difficult for that play to be successful. This is one of my biggest beefs with Freddie. Trying to be too cute, too smart while ignoring the obvious. I was waiting for our weekly failed shovel pass yesterday.



He's been saying that since week 1 but week after week he fails to deliver.



Even by your own admission, Freddie blames his playcalling. Yet he continues to do the same thing week after week. He hasn't changed since opening day, and other teams even tell us they can tell what he's calling. So yes, it is easy to blame the playcalling.

geez will, you are makin my point. There was over a minute left when we got the ball. Maybe 1 min and 25 secs. If we had run three runs into the line to run out the clock some other Freddie critics would have called him a lousy coach for not trying to put points on the board. For some reason you walked right past the main point. Our execution stunk!! We could not even complete one lousy pass.

Some of the things you mention are part of growing into your first head coaching job. A lot to learn and get better at. We did not hire a polished Tom Landry. But our coach will improve if given time. Or we bring in another rookie head coach who will exhibit some of the same growing pains.?or we bring in one of the several experienced hc’s who have had some success mixed in with much less success.

Will you seem to place little or no importance to execution. Truth is if the packers ran Jim Taylor on a sweep right and Jerry Kramer and Forrest Gregg failed to block their men the play would have been blown up. I guess from your perspective that would make Vince Lombardi a terrible play caller. We had too many players who failed to perform their tasks satisfactorily. I admire Freddie taking for claiming responsibility when he knows the breakdowns were on the field.

Sorry, but I can not give him a pass on the final two minutes of the first half.
(He knows this today too, but...)

Football 101 ... you run the ball in that situation, if you happen to get a first down, great, if not, you have left them no time and in this particular case they had no timeouts.

He reminds me of Jerry Glanville always going against the grain.

A good Coach calls the game with timing in mind, because he knows the heart beat of his team at a given time. It is not all about execution, though it is a prerequisite to success.

We call it rythm, but we have seen no such animal this year imo.

It's intuitive, like with Shanahan calling playes.

Worse yet, he repeats the same mistakes from week one hitherto.

And I know that he talks about fixing the teams mistakes continually, but when it comes to his own ... not so much.

Sorry Fl , but I do not agree. I have seen, and I would bet you have too, teams move the length of the field in 60-80 seconds and put points on the board. Seen it too many times done against us. A coach counts on his players making plays and we failed to do that. That said, our defense was embarrassingly bad to allow them to score like that. We may as well not been on the field the way they walked thru us. Honestly as disappointing as our o has been, I think our d has been even more disappointing.

Hail special teams. Bright spot of the season.

He's a rookie kicker. Theoretically he should improve.

Im not trying to be rude, but are you kidding me??? You honestly think calling 3 pass plays in that situation was the right thing to do? If you runt he ball ONCE, just ONCE!!!!! you bleed 35 seconds AT LEAST off the clock. You dont give the best team in the damn league a chance to score AGAIN on you. Its literally football 101. Im sorry, but there is NO, 0, notta, not a single iota of an argument to make about that series.


Name one area, or thing Freddie has grown to learn from this year?

Go ahead, ill wait.

It does presume a lot. Primarily it presumes that with our offensive talent, we should be better than the 22nd scoring offense. If linemen don't block and/or receivers don't run the proper routes, then one of two things are to blame.. either they physically aren't good enough to do their job, or they aren't being properly coached in how to do their job. I think it is primarily the latter.


Fundamentally, you have the NFLs leading rusher in the backfield, a second great runner standing beside him.. it's 3rd and 1 at an important moment in the game.. your offense has been struggling to sustain drives.. you call a play to get the first down. That's it, it's pretty much that simple. If your 6'2" guard steals the ball in basketball and is going to the hoop as time expires to win the game, he shouldn't try a 360 windmill dunk that he has never actually executed before.. just make the play. Freddie has been outthinking himself all year on plays where the simplest answer is the one he should have chosen.

As for the play itself, it's not that nobody blocked the guy, there was nobody on that side of the field to attempt to block the guy. That's poor play design. Not only that, let's say the guy does get blocked, Jarvis Landry had moved exactly zero yards downfield as the primary receiver you say was open. The defender was literally standing 2 yards in front of him. Even if the play "works" it's a 2 yard gain at best.

What is our success rate on "trick plays" this year? 1 in 5?


I agree. I think it's bigger than just playcalling in any given situation. I think it goes back to play design and overall scheme. 3 or 4 times this year opponents have said after the game they knew what play was coming before we ran it.

The lack of rhythm, the lack of discipline, the lack of imagination and creativity, the lack of execution... this has been a constant theme for our offense and it all comes back to coaching. And it's not just the offense, how many coverage busts did we have on Sunday? I know they capitalized on a few of them but replays showed several others we got away with...

I'm also worried about how much faith our players have in our coach. I've said before and will say again, if Freddie is our coach next year, I won't be mad, I'm going to root like heck for the guy to succeed.. but the learning curve he has to overcome to get this on track where it should be seems fairly steep with a LOT of things to correct.

I would like to add to this if I may, DC.

Iron sharpens Iron. So, in practice we are running this play and its probably working. You see, our defense has been and is garbage right now. So if we are running this play against our own defense and its working - we think its a good play.

Then we get into the game, against a real defense - and the play gets blown up because as you stated already, its poorly designed from the start.

that fact is covered up because it probably worked against our def.

The problem with your analysis is that Landry was the decoy. The TE was the intended target.

A corner blitz from that side was about the worst possible thing the Ravens could have called from our perspective against that trick play. Don't give a "the Ravens knew it was coming", either. We'd never shown the play.

If the pass was incomplete, the plan was to go for it on 4th down and short. Unfortunately, Hunt couldn't get rid of the ball and we lost yards.

Sometimes they just get you.

Could Baker have faked the pitch and thrown it himself if he saw the corner blitz? Maybe.

Our adjustments at the line need to improve. Is that because of Baker? If so, is that because of Lindley?

Is it because the process of getting plays in is too slow? If so, what is the process? Is Monken giving input to Freddie who is calling the plays?

Is it a mixture of a lot of things?

What perfect complete coaching staff is available that will have everything working perfectly immediately?

I'm pretty sure it doesn't exist.

We have been beaten by many Steeler teams playing a back up. Plus, they were not missing defensive players.

If you want to take something positive out of only splitting the series with this depleted steeler team, have at it. I see it as a failure.

"Fundamentally, you have the NFLs leading rusher in the backfield, a second great runner standing beside him.. it's 3rd and 1 at an important moment in the game.. your offense has been struggling to sustain drives.. you call a play to get the first down. That's it, it's pretty much that simple. If your 6'2" guard steals the ball in basketball and is going to the hoop as time expires to win the game, he shouldn't try a 360 windmill dunk that he has never actually executed before.. just make the play. Freddie has been out thinking himself all year on plays where the simplest answer is the one he should have chosen.'

I think a lot of it comes down to our Red Zone success last year. We were getting touchdowns on trick plays. Landry throwing the ball to Mayfield, end arounds, Statue of Liberty plays. Last year, we surprised people because Hue was actually pretty conservative in the Red Zone, Freddie was not. After people realized that Freddie was going to call plays by the seat of his pants, other teams began to prepare.

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

That pretty much sums it up

The Ravens have blitzed 54.3% of the time this season; more than half the time. (I think the TV announcer said they blitzed 60% of the time this season.) Point being, it should have been anticipated that they might very well blitz on that ill-considered play.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2019/opp.htm

Freddie isn't the only one who does that. That seems to be fairly common in football. They make the draft process too complicated, they make game plans too complicated.

There are different kinds of blitzes. Just about any version other than the corner to the side the pitch was going wouldn't have been so bad.

In short yardage, Freddie probably expected it inside, leaving a hole in the middle behind it.

What Freddie expects and what actually happens are usually not one and the same. He just won a bucket of coal on ESPN for the 3 most horrible sport performances in 2019.

When exactly did the focus shift from the OL to Freddie? Why?

I understand some of the blame goes to Freddie, but I feel like the OL affected Freddie more than Freddie affected the OL.

I don't know that our o-line was much worse this year than last year. But last year we ran designed rollouts with a moving pocket and did other things to help it out. I don't see those things this year. I have not seen all of every game but I have yet to see one moving pocket.

Keith, I see what you are saying even though I'm coming down more on DC's viewpoint.

But let's say it is primarily an execution issue...

... was the play set up properly by previous plays (think playaction off of runs)

... are the players not putting forth the effort?
... do the players have the skills and ability to execute the play to begin with?

So at what point as a play caller do you take an honest look at what your line is capable of and design/call plays that they ARE able to execute?

Look, we aren't very good on short, goal line yardage. But there's a huge leap between lining up 3 TE's with Chubb and Hunt in the backfield and running a play action off of the threat of the run versus completely ceding to the opponent and going empty backfield.

Has anyone else noticed the lack of talk about player input on the game plan? Maybe it's still there, but there I haven't heard any talk of collaboration between players and coaches, coaches and coaches like we did last year.