Remember when we were supposed to be good?

The Dolphins, who tried to tank and traded almost all their good players, are 5-11. The Browns, who sucked my soul from my body, are 6-10.

I’m.......numb.

Coaching matters

Will he (Frederick) stay or will he go....

Browns ended with a worse record than last year. Kitchens sucks and needs fired. There's always next year.

Bring in fitz, bridgewater or dalton.

Well, that ought to just about put an end to the Freddie Kitchens nightmare. This time tomorrow he will be out of a job and we will be in full-on coach search mode. Here's praying that this time we hire an experienced head coach and not another damned coordinator.

You're not going to be good when you don't have a QB.

I just watched the dolphins beat the patriots, yet we just got bounced by Ciny by 10 points.

I was just thinking that about the Dolphins. They have the worst roster in the NFL and are playing with the ultimate journeyman QB. But they never gave up. We had a roster full of stars. I would take their coach right now.
Freddie is done, obviously. Baker should tell his agent no commercials. He should go underground, be humble and work his ass off. He may not have a future in the league.

Flores is definitely a superior coach over Kitchens.

Imagine what he would do with talent. He might be a top five coach!

How many people want to keep Freddie now ?

It's not the record so much, as HOW that record was won/lost. We played like a bunch of misfits all year and this game was the capstone on a horribly coached team.

Freddie should be fired. He is not head coach material. This game proved beyond all doubt that this team has no pride. The Bengals, played with more pride than we had all season long. And in a perverse way, I am happy for Dalton to end his career there on a winning note. Cause that's what winners do. Us, not so much.

Some of you mentioned the Dolphins. Case closed. Freddie needs to go. Period!

Freddie will stay. This was his rookie season. Improvement to come.

Baker had the sophomore jinx, improvement to come.

We pick up a world class left tackle. Thomas hired to tutor him.

Offense has plenty of talent otherwise. We build on that by addressing the line.

New Defensive Coordinator to be purchased. Defense needs more talent.

Agreed. I don't care if they write a blank check to whoever is the best option out there. They have to get it right this time so the talent on this team isn't wasted before it's too late.

- Another season of double digit losses

- Organization is a dumpster fire

- Hurry up and fire Freddie.

- What an absolute embarrassment.

- The miserable season finally is over.

Anyone still want to keep this continuity?

No! I don't.


Was Van Halen the number one music act back then?

Freddy will be lucky if he could get a job as a high school coach after this total dumpster fire he presided over.

He better spend the millions he duped us out of wisely. It'll be the last football money he ever earns.

Feels like we have more holes than last year

Sure does...

Good grief...

Freddie shouldn't get the chance to talk.
Haslam needs to write his own pink slip while he's at it. He's a total failure as an owner.

This is just silly. Mayfield is a solid QB, and he will get better.

The good old days!

I remember when this season was supposed to be fun.

Go back to the threads where Freddie got hired
He could do no wrong and if you questioned the hire the Homers jumped all over you

Left tackle
Right tackle
Maybe right guard
Tight end (although a new coach should want to get a look at Njoku)
At least one safety
A linebacker if Schobert is not retained

Post game thoughts.

McCarthy or Rivera please, please, please.

This game reminded me of the last game or two at the end of the Chud era - team on the field could care less for the most part. Flat and disinterested.

Baker Mayfield resume two years in --

No playoffs.
Lost to a guy who never started a game.
Lost to a guy known for making duck calls.
Lost to a 3 win team.
Lost to a 1 win team.
Multiple multiple INT games.
Multiple INTs on game winning or tying drives the Browns had to have.
Multiple failures on game winning or tying drives.
Did not work in the off season.
Says he won't seek help this off season.
33rd ranked QB out of 32 teanms in the league in 2nd season.
Doesn't make game winning plays.
Plays his best only when executing scripted plays that were practiced.
Consistently demonstrates slow eyes. Takes way too long to go through progressions.
Appears to have no idea what is going on pre or post snap.
Stormed out of presser.
Repeatedly says dumb things.

#franchiseQB

#itsallcoaching

#loser

Someone feel free to post his list of positives for comparison sake.

Eotab does

HAHAHAHAHAHA - You so funny.

w/Browns loss 6 - 10

Going into week 17 with 9 teams a head of them in the Draft,

3 tied records

7 wins with wins
Jets win - check
Falcons win - check
Broncos win - ?

^Cardinals 5 - 9 - 1 ?

Come even

Jaguars 5 - 10 ?

j/c:

What a fitting ending to our season. Doesn't surprise me at all that we lost this one one bit (sighs).

Baker is not a franchise QB.
Freddie is in deep water, way over his head and with an anvil chained to his legs. He should have never been given this job. He had no experience and it’s not his fault. But, he needs to go.
Ward only played 11 games. Last year 13. Is health a question?
Vernon played 9 games. He;s not worth the price.
And we all know what happened to MG. I hope he’s back for a full season next year.
And of course our o-line could use some tweaking.
Davis N-joke-u needs to go.

I like Mayfield. I want him to succeed. But saying he is a “solid QB” is delusional. He was the worst ranked starter in the league. Right now, Daniel Jones is better. Gardner Minshew is better. Derek Carr, Josh Allen, Sam Darnold and Ryan Fitzpatrick are better.

My gawd ... The Jets and "crazy-eyes" Adam Gase just finished the season with a better record than the Browns.

Give up 33 points to the bengals. Get a clue.

I’d like to see your sources for the facts on Mayfield’s off-season workout schedule. Why do you post such nonsense? Mayfield got mad at Grossing for asking a nonsense question. He’s human.

We need to do what Pittsburgh, Baltimore, and Dallas do, and invest in the OL. If we are going to go with Baker, and a downfield passing game, we need to OL to do it.

The Final 3 games as a referendum on the whole season????????

???

Boo!!!

---

Ogunjobi deserves better teammates.

----


Season overview as as whole, They Lost Myles Garrett, "Healthy"

Forever!!!! after a Steelers game win!!!

Can anyone even begin! to Fathom that? What the

----

I think the final 3 games, as a group, are kind of a referendum on the future of staying the course,
or,
nevermind, what do I know.

----

Sheldrick Redwine, Taki Taki, Mack Wilson, Greedy Williams..

JUST STOP! Trying to tell us as FANS! That "understudys" should be acting in lead roles,

I mean, we've been watching for 30 years, we ain't fooled by the team telling us that players who shouldn't see the field in more than "spot duty"
are every down players, but we get this, Continually.

The first 8 games were 2-6

The final 3 games were 0-3, it's Amazing this team found a way to win 6.

The headline a few weeks ago was, "Kitchens safe, barring horrific collapse". I guess the players got the message.

I remember saying I could see us going anywhere from 4 - 12 to 11 -5, so I would compromise on 8 - 8, and was told I was stupid to think we would only do a half game better than 2018 when we had Hue here for half a season and far less talent.

I said it all depended on Baker.

That's what the NFL is. It's all about the QB.

When you don't have one, you get double digit losses, season after season.

I agree. In no way do I see him as a franchise QB. IMO, he is a back up at best.

Disappointing loss. Gonna miss my Browns.

But I'm looking forward to see which new coach we get.

Fun day with my football crew. Everybody was cheering for Miami, then everybody was cheering for Falcons.

I don't need to get a clue.

The results speak for themselves.

Now go ahead and write an essay that makes little to no sense telling me I'm wrong.

This is classic! Thank you Browns!

We need 2 OT's and perhaps a RG.

Can we at least wait to see what Baker can do with actual NFL caliber competent coaching AND an offensive line that knows how to pass protect?

We HAD a killer RG !

This team cashed it in when Myles bashed Rudolph in the head.

Redwine is horrible. The Oline is horrible. Landry was dogging it most of the day. Beckam just wanted his 1000. Randall only plays half the time, I think he has wanted out for weeks now. Baker just does not make plays when they are needed, IMO he is not a franchise QB.

Look for another turnover in staff and roster, and another subpar year next year. I can't take this for much longer. I'm actually glad the season is over, and I didn't even feel that way during 0-16.

Kitchens should be done, but only the Browns would keep him, so they will.

another dumpster fire awaits... especially if new HC doesnt want John Dorsey. trade the following players for draft picks... OBJ, Landry, ...and it wouldn't suprise me.... Myles Garrett.

Waiting on McCarthy or Rivera to arrive ASAP!

You know they won't hire either...

Don't tell me, tell Dorsey...

Austin Corbett?

He refuses to take my calls . lol

Actually He was the highest rated PP guard in nfl

Baker wasn't throwing to OBJ or Landry, and it was evident that both OBJ and Landry were so much better than the Cincy CB's it was amazing how we could lose this game.

OL can't be faulted when the QB can't recognize the pressure and make the D pay for blitzing...

Baker is playing awful... kid is rattled and needs to regroup.

The same guy who set the rookie TD record in 13.5 games last year? That guy? Absurd. He had a sophomore slump, coupled with terrible play calling.

Stop with the excuses. It's Baker that made Freddie look bad! Can't you see man !

Not comfortably, I assume.

You know that's funny I remeber watching that play asking myself why the hell do we only have 3 down lineman on a goaline defense??..Oh that's why!!

No. Great or transcendent players make everyone else better - and overcome deficiencies instead of blaming them. If Baker needs a perfect situation to succeed (great coaching, great OLine AND great playmakers) then he's not very good. Everyone in the NFL could succeed in those circumstances.

I hope Baker improves next season because I doubt we draft someone this draft, but after two years he is what he is - and that's the same guy I never wanted to draft b/c he's a short, hot-headed, 1-read, gimmicky gunslinger (none of which translates to NFL success) who is exactly that, a below average NFL QB.

Another clear example of why Baker isn't a franchise QB.

We could also argue that it wasn't the D throwing up the Int' and stinking up the field...

Its also very possible that both the D and teh QB really sucked...

Baker should have been benched at least at the bye... it was clear he was rattled and regressing.

Ding ding ding. Imagine that.

Shhhhh...that does not fit the "It's all Baker's fault" agenda.

I saw him yesterday, and will see him on Tues.

funny thing is is he was starting on another team,

sadly, he'll probably have a 10 year career, Does That Tell you Coaching matters?

Coaching matters,
organization matters,
not fixing what ain't broke matters,

Telling New York to screw off as opposed to ever listening to a thing they have to say matters,

having no new ideas on offense or defense matters,

Watching tons of ex Browns on playoff teams and super bowl teams and know the Browns told me they weren't good enough to keep, matters,

becoming your own best brand of a football team, Matters.

This time last year, One year ago,
We may not have had much, but this young Quarterback, He sure looked to have a big future in this league, and

somehow

at this point of "this" season, they've managed to make it look like he doesn't.


CONGRATULATIONS BROWNS, you managed to have just "one" quarterback start all 16 games for the first time since Tim Couch.

All I want for next year is NO FLIPPING SUPSENSIONS !!!

I just don't see what that has anything to do with Baker, sounds some are just trying to find some excuses....

Are you guys drunk or just stupid? Maybe both.

It's possible that Freddie is a terrible coach (he is)
Our OLine is garbage (it is - thanks Lord Dorsey)
Our offensive weapons are self-serving divas (they are)
Our defense might be worst in the NFL (they were after Garrett went down, and will finish close to dead last in rushing defense)

AND

Baker Mayfield can still be a bad/below average QB who isn't the answer.

Pointing out the last point does not mean "it's all Baker's fault". It just means he isn't very good - and he's not.

I can't say that we should get rid of this player or that player. Baker played like crap to be sure, but how much of that is squarely on him, how much is it on his teammates, how much is on the play design, the play call, the coaching staff . . . on and on

Baker was mugged all game long. Chubb couldn't get a block at all. Our dline couldn't plug a gap. This isn't a loss on one player. This is a team loss, from staff on down.

We have a good running game, so the OL can't be that bad. Also our QB can't read D's and adjust to save his life. Baker simply has no clue.

Landry and OBJ can be divas, they are both great players. And to my recollection none has ever been involved in anything problematic.

Our D is not that good, I'll give you that.

Also just take into consideration what the good players in the team must be thinking when they see the rookie QB take all the credit for last year and choose the HC...

It all starts with Baker and this idea that he was the franchise QB that could turn the team around...

In a normal organization Baker would have been benched 10 games ago.

It's entirely possible the QB has been bad most of the year. And it's entirely possible that it's a combination of things that are the root cause. And it's entirely possible that the collegiate career of accuracy and his rookie year of accuracy are more indicative of Baker's arm talent compared to the one season under an inadequate rookie HC whose play calling and play design was as anything I can remember in the last 20 years. We'll know this time next year. Anyone declaring Baker as never going to be a franchise QB is talking out of their rear end. . . just like anyone who wants to anoint him a FQB at this time!

Talk about a trainwreck of a season. Yes, I’m pessimistic by nature when it comes to the Browns, but even this season was worse than I envisioned.

IMO, you have to get rid of FK and seriously question Baker’s methodology and approach going into next year

I completely agree, but anyone who watched this season knows it starts in Baker and the idea he was the chosen one...

The whole team was built for Baker, so its time for some accountability.

The question is if it can be reverted and Baker can accept a minor role and just be one of the guys...

Baker looks like he’s aged a decade in 6 months

You clearly don't watch the games to say our running game is good. . . . Which is not true. If our running game was good, first and goal at the 5 yard line, we would run it in. That's what good running teams do. . . . What the Browns have is an exceptional, top 3 RB in the entire NFL. Chubb makes the plays - normally about 3 or 4 a game when he makes something amazing happen, the rest of the time he is trying to avoid not being tackled at the LOS or behind it.


Again - if you watched the games you'd see that OBJ has not been good this year and has dropped a ton of balls and consistently lined up in the wrong place. He also ran the wrong routes several times early in the season .... telling that OBJ gets a pass on reputation only but you want to hang Baker.

Baker is dressed like he’s going to an AA meeting.

He is completely delusional... He acts like he owns the team...

I've been playing better and pushing the others, that's when I stopped watching...

Throws 3 ints and talks about execution... pfff

Yep baker has to accept coaching/mentor ship the next 6 months from a viable source

J/C

Perhaps Baker is better off going to another franchise so we can watch him excel while we continue the revolving door of quarterbacks. Some Browns fans may not deserve a franchise quarterback.

ARE YOU COMFORTABLE WITH THAT?????

If so, join me.........

I think the jacket and tie is a good look. Glad he got rid of the stocking cap/hoodie look.

Or coming from one.

Amazing.... so you are saying that Baker is being miss treated here?

He would have been benched in any other franchise. This game was simply awful, to bad to be true.

The Ints were bad
The screen pass to Hunt was bad
He just can't read D's and adjust
HE does not recognize the pressure

Landry and OBJ were balling today.

And from his press conference, he for sure isn't a franchise QB, he is completely delusional...

Coaching was the biggest reason the Browns had a disappointing season. Dorsey needs to make a change.
Baker suffered through a sophomore slump, should bounce back next season.
Too early in Baker's career to give up on him.
We are pretty set at the skilled positions, now need to build up the lines. If Dorsey fires Kitchens and hires the right coach, Browns should make the playoffs next season.

what sophomore slump, he played at Kizer level this year.

He showed no improvement, he stopped throwing Ints because they dumbed the game down for him.

Today was awful, you don't end a season like this and keep your job.

Nope. It has been continuous for quite too long now.

FK has lousy judgment about himself and game management.

Take your own advice Freddie,and get away from football for awhile,a long while.
The fishing is good this time of year down in Backwater,AL,enjoy it.

I think he is maturing. This is a good presser after a disappointing season. He come off as very genuine and reasonable.

Sorry but you’re wrong. Baker is a QB we can move onward with. Our OL didn’t give him much help today, it blew. We need to go hard at OL. I

Crappy ending to a crappy season, but this year was about gaining experience.
We will be a better team next year:

Hopefully Chubb won the rushing title.

I miss Gregg Williams. Told ya.

You watch a different game than I do.

No it does not

???

44.4% completion %. 3 Int's, 2 off them extremely ugly + many WTF moments...

Maybe you were not watching the Browns... the red hair QB was Dalton not Baker...

Quite possibly his last start with Cinci. Good to see he finished well...

The New York Jets started out 1-7 and finished with a better record than the Browns.

Are you going to blame Baker for OBJ dogging his route on that long INT?

Is there really any reason to keep Wilks, either?

Agreed. He dressed like a guy who had given up on life before.

At least he isn't sporting his Columbo meets John Holmes look!

The guy that's waiting for heads to explode?

Reading between the lines with Baker's presser....it sure does sound like they are aware of players, coaches etc. who are not committed. I think Oline is an obvious weakness, but defensive side of the ball really looks like players are not trying. When we got within 7 in the 4th quarter I jokingly said to a friend that the defense probably said to each other they need to allow Cincy to score again to not allow the offense to come back and force OT or win it. Pretty sure the defense want Wilks and Freddie gone.

I like his jacket and tie. As well as his beard. No more awful stache.

OBJ dogging the route? He wasn't even in the same postal code...

You are funny... are you ever going to stop making excuses, or even worst, using other players to excuse Baker's fault.

At what moment did Baker decide that was a good throw? Does he even look where he is throwing?

I honestly think he needs glasses, because so many WTF throws he makes could just be prevented by seeing what he is doing.

j/c...

Not fair, we tried to run Chubb but just couldn't

Another damn thing Baker responsible for.

Baker? I believe Freddie calls the plays

Freddie "Disaster" Kitchens

Well for sure a 44.4% completion, 3 ints and not being able to score on Cincy didn't help....

Also don't think Chubb got to shoot any commercials this year, while last year he was already the best player in the team...

Hey, you can't judge Baker too harshly this season lil fella considering he had a damn retard as head coach and play caller!

Sorry - sarcasm, fixed it for ya.

Along with Musical Chairs on the OL

I guess this means we're not still goin' steady?

What. A. Decade.

2010: 5-11
2011: 4-12
2012: 5-11
2013: 4-12
2014: 7-9
2015: 3-13
2016: 1-15
2017: 0-16
2018: 7-8-1
2019: 6-10

Total record of 42-117-1. (.359 win %)

Somebody please save us from this misery that is #Browns football.

https://twitter.com/MoreForYou_CLE/status/1211401937914122246

Goodness

That's a .266 win %.

Oy vey. Oy vey I say....

We pick top 10

Freddie fired per Schefter and Mortensen

Yes, either 9th or 10th

Let it be true ... not that I care to see a man get fired but ...

In a way he is.

The Bengals were stacking the box and run blitzing the entire game because they didn't fear the pass.

With Adam Gase and Sam Darnold.

Yikes.

Cleveland Browns fire Freddie Kitchens after one season

https://www.foxnews.com/sports/browns-fire-freddie-kitchens

Why is that funny when it's true?

Maybe if we had some o linemen who could block we would have run it more. In those thirteen runs I saw nick run into one hole. One! The rest of the time he had defenders hitting him before he even got to the los. Baker had very few downs where he dropped into a clean pocket. Freddie had to be wondering where the offensive line that kept baker clean and upright the last 8 games of last season had gotten. They sure were not on the field today.

When a head coach is released, it's rare the new coach keeps many, if any of the previous coaching staff.

I hope the new coach will consider keeping Mike Priefer. Monken and Wilks can go.

I agree

Conclusion/tinfoil hat theory: Freddie wanted out.


I wanted to give him the benefit of the doubt as much as I could, but you go into competely/utterly meaningless game (preseason games had more impact on the season than this one), and dress 2 WRs that required surgery literally months ago, let Baker hold the ball and stare at god-knows-what before running the ball and taking hits, and don't give the ball to the 1 guy that actually has anything to play for.
Chubb lost the rushing title not to the #2 guy heading into week17, but the #3 guy. Henry picked up 200+ yards and had Chubb on the sidelines to get to #1.


Freddie did everything he could to get fired.

I was at the game.

The defense completely mailed it in. A couple Mixon runs is all you needed to see. Baker sucked, but was trying. You don't scramble and take hits if you're not trying. His accuracy was terrible and he couldn't find receivers (held the ball). I can't comment on the Oline.

Receivers were open at times, but they mailed it in (arguably) worse than the D. You'd never have guessed we had OBJ and Landry out there based on how little they were getting open. Maybe their injuries caught up to them, but OBJ straight up jogged his route on that long INT. No joke, he ran like I do when I'm doing a slightly uptempo run.

The only person that looked like they gave a flip was Chubb, and he was basically sat down. I still can't believe that you leave the one guy that has anything to play for on the sideline.

Exactly. Everyone but apparently Rasta saw this.

rasta saw how bad Mayfield played, and that's true.

But losing to the Bengals was a team disaster. Baker wasn't the one constantly calling passing plays against a run defense everyone else was somehow able to run all over.

I'm not sure Baker had the option to audible. I remember in the 4th quarter he made a call at the line, 3 Bengals shifted to the right (their left) leaving a wide area off tackle, there were several seconds to to make a change, but when the ball was snapped, Chubb ran to exactly where the bengals slid over to. It just made no sense. Add to that Chubb running to the short side to crowded short side of the field??

But yes, it was a team disaster. Lack of effort nearly all around. Lack of belief. Lack of even caring. AND Chubb misses out on the rushing title?

I said it before, this team didn't deserve Nick Chubb. Who knows if the team gave up on Freddie, but dang, at least try to help your guy accomplish something.

Right. One would think (hope) that a rallying cry for the last game of the season would be to make sure your guy gets the rushing title.

But nope. Can’t even do that.

“Not fearing the passing game” I guess led to three td passes including a couple of very nice accurate passes. Given the amount of time he spent trying to dodge oncoming d linemen. I think he did rather well.

You are kidding right....

What I saw was several times baker throwing and not even looking or seeing what was in front of him.

1. Pass to Landry when Landry had fallen way before the pass was made
2. Screen pass to Hunt, when Hunt wasn't even looking back and was still moving
3. Pass to the inside to Landry after he made the cut to the outside
4.The Int to OBJ where he has 2 players on top from the start of the play.

There are many,many,many other plays like this through the season.

So that's evidence pointing to the fact that Baker is not seeing the field even when he is throwing, how do you expect to even see the field before.

And it was clear from the start that both Landry and OBJ are far, far, far superior to the Bengals DB's... how we lost this game is amazing.

I know I tend to be to critical, but most of the times is just to make my point.

My feeling (and I hope I'm wrong) is that Baker is a one read one throw QB, take that one throw he can make in a play and he is completely ineffective.

But worst than being a one read one throw QB, is not being a smart QB, because a smart one read,one throw QB will adapt and react and change that one throw one read, but apparently Baker, even when it was evident that DC's were taking the first read out, couldn't adapt after 16 games.

You know a QB isn't very smart when you are in a 3rd and long and you start running...

I do not have the film to back it up, but he seemed to force it into multiple covers inside. I often saw perimeter routes open by a fair amount that never got the ball. It seemed to happen regularly; it also seemed he was told which receiver to go to or had made up his mind early.

This kid needs coached up to do some important QB stuff that FK didn't develop much or help with some of his play sets. If he can't do that, despite his interview assertions, then he may well be just a talented bust. Better than mantel, but lots of deja vu. Make me a believer!

Passes that came out early with the receiver not looking was generally due to the pass rush/guys all up in his business. I don't put that on Baker.

I did notice a fair amount of passes where he looked at 1 (and only 1) receiving option when (I think) he could've looked elsewhere.

But putting that long INT to OBJ on Mayfield is not the right take at all. Mayfield let the ball go before he could've seen that OBJ was taking the play off. If you wanna rag on a guy for passing the ball to a guy that's clearly checked out, then that's fine... but call it like it is. That INT was 100% on OBJ.

I’m certainly not saying Baker doesn’t have his problems and he’s certainly contributed to the crap fest, but you’re giving OBJ waaaay too much credit. He’s been hurt all year, an injury that has hampered his top end speed... yet he still pretended to be a deep threat. OBJ may be open on plays but how do you know he’s where he’s supposed to be? Virtually every other play for 16 weeks someone else had to tell him where to line up and we’re expected to believe the guy who has zero clue or care where he’s supposed to be pre-snap is going to care or know where he’s supposed to be post snap?

He’s got talent, but I’d pay a solid bet he caused way more confusion and was a big hit to Bakers confidence more than any other player.