Dude is killing it at the Combine and he killed it all year long. He might even be available at 10.

A couple of questions:

Would you draft him?

How would you use him on D if you did draft him?

https://twitter.com/richeisen/status/1233940375661875200

This trio of simulcams of
@isaiahsimmons25
vs. NFL stars he will most likely have to chase down is amazing.

Because, here, they're all chasing HIM down.

I would draft him. He had speed and instincts to play anywhere from ILB, OLB, and either S position ... and can also rush the passer well. He is the kind of guy who would make any defense better,

Loved your posts, except for the last one. LOL

This morning, I heard a discussion on NFL Network that Simmons could easily fall out of the top 10.

#4 is a far cry from that.

I mentioned on another thread he is the one player that I would take at ten that wasn't one of the top tackles. I would play him at SS. I think he would fit well with Woods' preference to play more man-to-man than zone. I do think we are going to be in Nickle a lot.

I’d find it very unlikely to take anyone but a tackle at 10.

Obviously, where players are located matters, but the LT spot must be secured.


Until someone shows me a way to secure it other than the #10 pick, that’s where I’m going. Wirfs, Thomas, Benton. That’s where I’m at. Protect Baker.


Good athlete, jack of all trades players is nice, but LTs are difficult to find. That’s what we need

I think I might use him as a CB/Nickel LB on TEs and bigger receivers. Have him outside the box as he doesn't deal with the inside traffic the greatest, but he's good in space and can blitz off the edge. You could sort of keep 3 corners and 3 LBs on the field all the time with him as he more or less counts as both.

Still prefer Wills, but if the top 4 OTs are gone, I wouldn't hate it.

I don't think there is any chance Simmons is there at ten. If he is you draft him and figure everything else out as you go. He's a perfect player for the NFL right now.

I think that he is ideal to help defense the modern running QB. He is fast enough to catch them, and big enough to bring them down.

j/c

I watched him at the combine and have to think he’ll be gone by pick 10. If he’d be there, I’d run to the podium.

Imagine his versatility with Lamar Jackson on the other side of the ball.

Everyone likes to discuss best player available, Simmons is it.

Let me be clear, Simmons is my #1 target. I move up to get him. I draft OT in the 2nd

The problem is, you may have to trade the 2nd rd pick to move up.

I would give up some picks/players to get him. Like a faster Polomalu. His combine run was amazing. We need tackle(s), but this is a huge impact player. I would jump on it.

I don't argue that at all, my comment was we may not have a second round pick to use, to pick up the tackle, if we move up to get Simmons. Do we wait til 3rd round to get a starting Left Tackle, or mortgage next year, as in # 10 this year and our first round pick next year, to move up and get Simmons ?

Simmons, if available at 10 is a beast. If he gets picked before 10, you gotta go, Xavier McKinney S from Alabama. He reminds me of Ed Reed. While OL is a need, it isnt as bad as Browns fans think it is. OL is not a difference maker. You dont waste Top 10 picks in the Draft on OL. The Browns have a ton of holes on defense. Joe Thomas proved, OT doesn't translate to wins

Browns Needs:

TE
LB
CB
S
OL

For sure, you need impact players in the Top 10

Assuming he is available at 10.

I'm not sure if he's Polomalu or if he's Obi Melifonwu 1.5 with a better defense around him.

His stats and athletic measurables look amazing, but his tape isn't as definitive. The tape isn't bad by any means, but I wonder how much being used perfectly in a great scheme contributed to his success. Are his instincts great or was he told exactly what to do most plays? How often did he win by skill vs by alignment? A TFL is great, but one when the offense doesn't account for you isn't as impressive as a DE/DT beating a doubleteam to do it.

It's not so much a knock as something I'm still trying to figure out how to weigh/separate.

Browns needs:

OT
OT
S
OG (don't think Teller is a fit in the new scheme, and Forbes is still an unknown. Plus, inside pressure kills Baker)
S
LB
TE
CB/WR

j/c...

If Simmons is who I think he is, unfortunately he will not be there at #10.

If Simmons is there at 10 (doubtful) draft him.

With his speed and athleticism, he can shutdown RBs and TEs.

You need a guy like him as the game continues to evolve as guys continue to get bigger, stronger and faster.

He's a game changer and you can line him up in multiple positions on the field.

Here are his snaps by position last year:

- Slot CB: 257
- Safety: 225
- Off-ball LB: 192
- Edge defender: 115

I'd honestly consider trading up for him.

For this team, with the holes that need to be addressed Simmons only makes sense if he drops to the Browns at 10. Otherwise, he's a luxury that I hope the FO won't chase by trading up. As much as I am enthralled by his talent even if he did fall to the Browns at ten I'd be open for business if somebody wanted him badly enough to pony up multiple picks. I think Simmons is going to be a star in this league. I think he is a Jackson antidote.

None of that will help our red-zone offense which was inept last year. This was the glaring problem for this team. Scoring, when they were in position to score.

If Simmons is there, the Browns will trade down for more picks.

If you want Simmons you have to trade up to three. That’s at least this year’s second round pick and probably more. That’s too much for a non-QB on a team with huge holes at several positions.

go look at Watson, Wilson, Matt Ryan, Kyler Murray, Ryan Fitzpatrick, Josh Allen, Jameis Winston, Aaron Rodger's numbers, all who got sacked the same or more than Mayfield, then look at Mayfield's numbers and get back to me

U mean like they did with Watson? LOL

Combine has everyone in a tizzy.

Obviously, if he goes as early as 3 (doubtful) it's too much.

If he's there at, let's say 8 maybe 7, I strongly consider making the move up to get him.

Lol.

A trade down at 10 will not surprise me this year.

I agree with whomever said they only way we should take Simmons is if he falls to us at #10. The same would go for Derrick Brown or Jeff Okudah. We'd have to think hard before passing on any of those 3 at #10, IMO. The reason I think this is because trading up for any of them would compromise our ability to trade back into the late 1st round to get one of the second tier OTs (Josh Jones, Austin Jackson, et al). Above all else, IMO the Browns must come out of this free agency/draft season with a starting LT, and the only FA LTs are in their mid-to-late 30s (Peters, Whitworth). (Indy's Anthony Castonzo has said he's returning to the Colts.)

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001...urning-for-2020

I respectfully disagree. Think back to your BPA vs Need thread. Moving a spot or 2 from your big board is a mistake and it has gotten more teams in trouble than anything else.

Stick to your Vertical board and use the Horizontal board to make some minor adjustments.

I probably should not have started this post. Almost all of you are saying Simmons is going to be drafted much higher than 10. I was just going off of what I had heard earlier in the day when 3 analysts were discussing that Simmons might fall outside of the top 10 if certain things happen, such as the qb thing. I didn't realize that there wasn't any way that he would fall. I haven't been following the draft as closely as most of you.

I read your post a couple of times before responding. I think I understand you to say if Simmons were there at 10 take him don't trade down. Right?

Just by the way you phrased your comments, I don't think you are advocating moving up for Simmons, right?

If my reading of your post is correct we agree 100% about chasing Simmons with a move up. I'd really have to know what other teams were offering to flat out reject a move down. If we didn't move and took Simmons the consolation prize is a guy who would be special on the back end of our defense. I think he could help defend TEs, stop Jacksons' running and Burrows's legs too.

You are saying the OL is not as bad as people think. Problem is we don't even have a LT now. Robinson is gone, besides him who else is going to play LT?

I still think we need to address the OL 1st. The fact we are debating about taking a D player at #10 shows we need more talent on this team than some think. JMO

Ideally I’d like OT as well ... but our defense proved to be as much of a problem than our OL ... we were gashed and got zero pressure on QBs when Garrett was out.

Our offense was bad last year, but our D didn’t live up to the hype at all either

It is still possible he is there at 10. I think it depends on O Tackles. If there is a run on OT's between 5-9 then it is a real possibility Simmons would be there at 10. If he is there I would have no issue with the Browns taking him over reaching for a Tackle.

McKinney should be available in the late teens. No way you take him at #10. If he is a target, he is a great player, trade back 5-6 slots and grab him there and get a 3rd or 4th rounder in the deal. Maybe a 2nd if you can wait until next year for the pick.

I can understand why some would like us to draft Simmons or a good SS, CB etc. We are going to have to face Lamar twice a year and probably Joe Burrow. If we somehow manage to finally make the playoffs we will probably have to face D. Watson and for sure Patrick Mahomes. We certainly will need players on D who can cover and get to the QB. Seems to me we will have to get very lucky to fill all our holes with 1 draft and 1 FA period. We probably need 2 and that's hoping we can keep the good players we already have.

I might not be following you and you correct me if I am not.

But, I am thinking that you are talking about my comment on the Vertical vs Horizontal board????

If so, I am steadfast in that I believe in the Belichick's Vertical board that guys like Ozzie, Demhoff, etc have followed.

Don't deviate from your Vertical board by more than 1-2 spots because of need. Most of the time, 2 spots is too many. Of course, there are exceptions and BB even said he went 3 spots down "one" time.

So, if you have Simmons rated as your 7th overall player [I'm making this part up because I have no idea] and an OT as your 10th or 11th best overall player, it would be a mistake to take the OT instead of Simmons. Draft BPA almost always!!!

I know that might sound odd to a lot of you. Let me try this...........Remember the J. Ogden/Lawrence Phillips thing I talked about on your thread? Ozzie had Ogden higher on the Vertical board. Modell wanted Phillips because the team needed a RB and for other reasons. Ozzie stayed true to his board and drafted Ogden. He's in the HOF. Phillips, I believe, was killed in prison.

That's to dramatic. The key is to remember that you can always fill need in upcoming years, via trades, or in FA. Your draft picks........and this is extremely important is to draft players [especially in rounds 1 and 2[ that will be the cornerstones of your franchise for years and years.

Good conversation and feel free to ask me questions if I wasn't clear. I kind of feel I wasn't. Or, debate me. It's all good.

Do you put Burrow on your board, even though you have no intention of drafting a QB ? Or do you build your board based on positions you plan to draft, based on need ? I can see using both boards. One to track the draft, to follow what other teams are doing, and to focus on the positions you have planned to draft for. Or is that what you meant by Horizontal and vertical boards ?

Yes, Burrow would be on your boards. You rank the players all the way from 1 to ??. I'm not sure how many players they rank. I just know it is a lot.

The horizontal board will slot the draftee into your team's positional group. Your team has obviously identified positions/units that need an upgrade, but the Horizontal board allows you to be more precise.

Thanks, I understand better what you are saying. I originally thought when you said "two slots" you were referring to draft slots. But now I realize that you were talking about evaluation/grades. When faced with a dire need for Oline and possible perennial pro-bowler like Simpson it would take quite a bit of discipline to resits addressing the need. Especially when the need involves supporting your biggest investment at QB. You would have to practice draft scenarios where you did not draft OT in the first round. Winging it while on the clock would be disastrous.

I do now understand the logic behind your post. Thanks again.

Agree and totally understand.

The question that I raised before in regards to the Browns is:

Who does the ranking and how do they derive at the final ranking?

Scouts handle a territory. Then there are positional scouts. They report to a director of scouting. Then there is a VP of Player Personnel and a VP of Football Administration. Then there are assistant directors for pro scouting, and scouting. Then at the top the GM.

Then the head coach and coordinators have a say as well as position coaches.

Lots of layers. Lots of people judging players in the league and college players.

So building a vertical and horizontal board and final rankings are where the meat is.

Mis rank someone and the Board is wrong.

Consensus must be difficult? Add analytics to the process.

Link of the chain bad evaluators. Bad ranking = poor draft.

So how this is set up, who is involved, and how does it end in ranking and the ultimate decision (owner)?

Lot of factors.

Sorry that I wasn't clear.

You bring up a good point about having the discipline to resist moving too far off your Vertical board and filling a need.

I think it's pretty obvious that a lot of teams have lacked that discipline over the years. Sometimes, we all say "how did that guy fall so far in the draft," and sometimes the answer is that there were teams who did not have a need at the player's particular position. [Note: obviously it can for other reasons, like off-the field issues, etc.]

I just think history shows that you hurt the long-range success if you pass on better players for guys who fit a need. That's why I chose the stories of Ogden/Phillips and Ed Reed/Lito Sheppard in your BPA vs Need thread.

With all of that said, I have no idea what the boards look like. Simmons might not be ranked higher than one of the OTs on some of the team's boards. I was just speaking in hypothetical terms.

Good post.

I truly have no idea how the Browns are doing things. That's not a sarcastic insult. It's just that I don't know.

J/c

Could anybody with more expertise than myself compare Simmons to Edmunds (the athletic LB drafted by Buffalo).

As a player or as an athlete?

https://www.mockdraftable.com/player/isaiah-simmons
https://www.mockdraftable.com/player/tremaine-edmunds

I believe Fe'Zahn (his real name) Edmunds was considered more of a versatile linebacker while Isaiah Simmons is a versatile defensive player.

I think Simmons is going to better, but I think 4Life found a pretty good comparison. Both guys are big, fast, and are versatile enough to play multiple positions.

I will add that I believe Edmunds skipped a year of high school. That's something to consider when evaluating his potential.

None of us do.

That is why I have refrained from the draft and free agency etc.

When the final roster is set I will look at the players that were drafted and their college tape. Saw a couple highlights of the combine watched none live.

I see no sense in going through all I used too. Lost interest. Have no predetermined feeling about the new regime. Not concerned really.

Results. I will tune to watch the season opener and be ready to go cheering for the Browns to win.

What I see I will judge nada till then.

I like Stefanski and Berry wish them the very best. Again it is all about results though.

Same goes for Baker, Odell and the rest. Shut up, play ball and win games.

From PFF's updated draft guide. He's the only player in their guide where they could not find an NFL comp. Pretty crazy...

Thanks for the links

That’s impressive to skip a year like that. I think it’s a pretty solid comparison athletically ... I remember BUF used him as a spy against Lamar with some success when I saw the game

I have no idea how good he will be, but I think he is worth taking at 10. I also think your Edmunds comparison was pretty damn good. Big, fast, athletic guys who play a variety of positions. I also get the Derwin James comparison, but I think Edmunds might be a better comparison.

It depends on how he's used in the NFL. In college Simmons played basically every position besides the interior of the defensive line. That's more similar to how Derwin James is used. Edmunds is a versatile linebacker.

No matter what, Simmons is a true difference maker. His athletic profile is basically a big, faster Julio Jones.

Simmons would also likely be the only front 7 player who could shadow Lamar Jackson.

I think the real problem is that history shows that the "jack of all trades" tends to still be the master of none. But from what I've seen, Simmons may very well be the exception that proves the rule.

Assuming, at least, that the DC is willing to do more than just line him up at WILL or nickel safety.

Then again, that still makes him two players.

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/news...rs-into-top-10/

If that draft happens I'll travel to Berea and show Berry the error of his ways.

JC

To me, this is run up and hand in the card if he's there at 10.

He won't be. There is NWIH he gets past Rhule in Carolina at 7.

If you want to move up, your only real trade partner is the Chargers @ 6. If they're not in love with Justin Herbert QB, they can get their much needed OL help at 10. They'd want your 2nd (41) and next years 2nd. You won't pick again til #74.

That's really the only way I see him being a Brown.

Wouldja?

No doubt. The only way we might fix it this year is to sign 2 starting quality offensive linemen in FA to fix the line, but the reality is we probably only sign 1. But if we did, we could concentrate on defensive players in the draft because we have holes at the three defensive units on the field.

j/c...

My wish list is Simmons, Wirfs and Becton ONE OF THE THREE

That means 9 picks leaving us one of the above.
2 would be on the list leaving 7 picks:

QBs we got Burrow and Tua...we need another to be taken leaving 4 picks. Who would be the 4 taken??? ahead of our last guy in the above list.

jmho hopefully things will fall in place for us!

Herbert is usually mentioned as a top 9 qb selection. Lots of buzz on Jordon Love. He might go up there.

I’ve seen Love’s name creep up too. Likely a top 10 pick. So that means Burrow, Tua, Herbert, Love could all be top 10 picks. Excellent

That is the scenario I was talking about that might lead to Simmons falling to 10.

Sign a tackle(s) in free agency.

Do what you can to move up and draft Simmons.

That would be a pretty good start to next year.

If Simmons is there then it is a slam dunk for me at 10 even if we had to roll the dice with a Peart, Niang or Cleveland at tackle in the 2nd.

This is a copy of that CBS mock that was driving me nutso.. We take Jedrick Wills and 2 fornicating picks later the Raidaz take Simmons??

NOTE** Jordan Love creeps up there..


Cincy
Joe Burrow QB

Washington
Chase Young EDGE

Miami
Mock Trade from Detroit Lions
Tua Tagovailoa QB

Giants
Mekhi Becton OL

Mock Trade from Miami Dolphins
Lions
Jeff Okudah CB

Chargers
Jordan Love QB

Carolina
Derrick Brown DL

Arizona
Tristan Wirfs OL

Jax
Javon Kinlaw DL

Browns
Jedrick Wills Jr. OL

NYJ
Andrew Thomas OL

Raiders
Isaiah Simmons LB

Jedrick Wills works for me.



He was my top OT pre-combine. Going back through now.

40: 4.39


What else did he do? Did he not run the 3 cone?


Malik Harrison had the best 3 cone time.....I love that kids potential at the next level. Yes a homer pick.

I’m good with Simmons, Wills, or Thomas at 10

I've got a feeling the following will be taken before #10: Burrow, Young, Tua, Becton, Okudah, Herbert/Love, Simmons, Wirfs, Wills.

What do you do? Thomas, D. Brown, Kinlaw, trade back????

Depends on what people are offering to trade back.

I hope Brown and/or Kinlaw go top 9.

I might have to consider Chaisson. I still need to actually watch his film, though. Just looking at big boards, positional value, and considering Vernon's towards the end of his deal. Plus, Woods had some fierce pass rushes on his recent Defenses.

I’d go Thomas there

https://www.mockdraftable.com/player/isaiah-simmons

He didn't run the 3 cone.

I agree with yours through the fist six picks.

1--Bengals
QB Joe Burrow

2--Redskins
DE Chase Young

3--Dolphins
(Mock Trade from Detroit Lions)
QB Tua Tagovailoa

4--Giants
OT Mekhi Becton

5--Lions
(Mock Trade from Miami Dolphins)
CB Jeff Okudah

6--Chargers
QB Jordan Love (choice)

7--Panthers
LB Isaiah Simmons (his Draft floor imo)

8--Cardinals
OT Jedrick Wills Jr.

9--Jaguars
DT Derrick Brown

10-->Browns
OT Tristan Wirfs

Wires was impressive. I just think it might be worth extra for Simmons. Speed kills. We need impact players for tackles and a safety. Simmons seems able with speed and experience in college to be able too check a number of boxes.

Realistically he should not make it past the Giants, but the Giants are a different breed come Draft day.

I am ok with Simmons, Wirfs, or Becton

Although I have a feeling that if 1 of those 3 are there at 10, we are going to trade down.

I’m kinda hoping one of the QBs fall to us and the Raiders get antsy

Yeah, Gettleman has already let it be known that he is willing to move down.

LOL.....Of course, that is ground-breaking news. That dude is such a clown.

Right there!

Yes, but he forgot that Detroit is in play @3.

Does he really think that he can sucker Miami into thinking they will go QB? *L*

What are you talking about? He's trying to auction off the RB who's the best player in the class, otherwise he's going to take him himself.

Or a few more. It also pressures some teams to trade-up. We might be in a pivotal sport where we can trade down just 3-4 slots and still get one of our top 1st round targets and add something else.

But if Simmons is there, we best take him. Everything is for sale, so if we do, it better be a darn good price. I would tell them Simmons is my player. Don't talk to me about draft value charts. He is my player and you are wanting to trade for my all-pro player. Your 1st this year and next, and that solid starting guard you have is a good place to start.

I like that line of thinking, to bad this FO will trade it for a 4th next year and a box of skittles.

I do not follow college ball as much as most of you guys, and certainly not up on potential draftees. So this is more of a question than anything else...Simmons is listed as a LB mostly. Just in looking at him, if he were to line up as an OLB against my O, I would run right at him and let him try and deal with a pulling OL all day long. LB in the NFL neds to take on the run on the edge. People thnk he can set the edge, or is this guy really a SS?

If the consensus is he is someone who can play "all over the place," then aren't there concerns that he is a jack of all trades master of none kind of player? Drafted in the top 10?

Jack of all trades, master of a couple.

That is a good post. You raise valid concerns.

I haven't been following this draft all that closely, either. So, I am no expert on it.

I think Simmons' value is that you can utilize him in multiple ways. You might play him at SS one play, then put him at edge on another, and then as a zone coverage guy the next play. You might play him at Will the next play and let him cover the TE. You might use him as a spy on QBs like Lamar and R. Wilson.

I don't know if he will be good or not. He just has a fairly unique ability to play multiple positions and play them well.

I think Simmons is an uber talented freak of and athlete. Regardless if where he plays he will be an above average to good player. But if he winds up on a team with a smart creative defensive coordinator then he could be something special.

Take Troy Polamalu, if you try to make him play a traditional SS role then he would have been just an average player. But Dick LeBeau was able to use his unique skills in creative and innovative ways allowing Troy to become one of the greatest of all time.

JMO

Good take.

I think that Simmons would have been perfect for last year's "3 Safety" defense.

I do think that he is the perfect type of player to handle the running QBs in today's game.

Sound reasoning sounds solid!

I like him because speed and a little coaching can forgive a lot on the field. Just assigning him to a QB at times or making him part of a stunt and moving him around seems like great football to me where he can potentially contribute to almost every snap.

Ahem.. any of you dweebs notice that the Lions picked up Jamie Collins?

He's an OLB. Any immediate need they have for an OLB is likely eliminated. I think they go Okuda or try to create a Tua bidding war at 3. I see only the Panthers or the Jags standing between us and Simmons who will get pushed down by virtue of the Lions / Collins move..

Simmons would be a great get for the Browns.

Simmons is that type of talent where the offense
Has to be aware of him every play.
That's special in my book. Ultra rare traits.
Can you imagine on 3rd and 9..
He can line up on the outside boundry. Force the the X to the sideline
He can line up in the slot. Off the edge
Middle backer and shoot the a b gaps.

For me it’s either OT or Simmons ... no other options at 10. I don’t think Simmons slips, but if he would ... you turn in the card and have him be our disruptor for 10 years

To have any chance at a successful season, we need to add an impactful player to the D. It would be great if we could get Simmons and he could be that guy.

Otherwise, it's going to be a long season.

The D is putrid.

People will balk at the money, but I want to add Clowney and then get Simmons.

I wonder what it wound take to get Clowney?

Cutting:
Vernon = 15.5 million
Hubbard = 4.8 million

Suh is available as well .. and would work as a tackle. He was played out of position last year as a 3/4 DE

My guess is Clowney is looking to be the highest paid defensive player ever. That means more than $60 million guaranteed.

I would add in Derrick Brown DT Auburn if he were to fall.
Big run stopping DT but not just a stuff the middle guy, disruptive in the run game. He also gets penetratoin against the pass. Total defensive stud.

I agree on Derrick Brown.

I like Simmons as well. It wouldn't surprise me if we moved up to get him.

So doing the math ... if we want one of the four OTs, Brown, or Simmons ... it means that we have to hope 4 other people are selected in the top 10

Burrow
Chase Young
Okudah
Tua

If those 4 are selected, we will get at least one of those 6 guys

I think that is pretty much a slam dunk to happen.

The problem for me is I don't think all 4 of the OT are top 10 talent. I think Whirfs and Becton fall out of that range. But that is JMO. I just don't think LT is as important as it was several years ago. The QB position has changed in a big way. When that happens, all others follow.

Todays breed of QB don't stand in there making multiple reads. Few have been required to do that. Make the deep read first, then look second, then roll to buy some time or run the ball. Most QB's are right handed, so they roll away from the LT. Some QB's today may not even look at the second read before they make their break right, then make something happen.

It is what it is. I talked about this 10-15 years ago. Things evolve. As they do, other things do as well in reaction to the change.

I agree Peen...

I want either Simmons, Brown, or Thomas. Anyone else I'm ehhh on..

I like Simmons. IF FA has been good enough for us, I say spend whatever to get Simmons and a tackle. Trading up for these makes sense to me.

And my guess is that ... that ship has sailed.

When Healthy Vernon is a Much Better Overall Player Than Clowney ... JMHO

I like Vernon, (more so than most) but his age and availability are a factor together with his cap hit.

If we can guarantee Vernon is healthy, he’s worth the money. Of course, we cant guarantee that with anyone lol

j/c:

Clowney and Myles would be ridiculous. Who do you double/chip/etc? Clowney might not have the sacks, but sacks are misleading. Does he effect plays? Yes, Clowney does.

I feel like Vernon is underrated on here in some quarters, but Clowney's better.

and Clowney is just as much of a beast against the run, too.

He would be stupid-expensive, but probably worth it - and our DLine would be terrifying. Hell, even keep Vernon and work rotations to keep them fresh, and or do some funky stuff with all three out there. Vernon is all cash for this year, so why not?

I'd offer Clowney a shorter term deal that gets him to free agency in 3 or 4 years and give him the $20M/year that he is looking for... frontloaded.

Yeah this dweeb sees the ex-Pats DC Patricia getting another who knows the system and Collins seems to have become a team guy finally as per his performance from last season.

??? for me is. Simmons and Wirfs both there at #10 who do we take!

I know who I would take...tough tough choice but its Wirfs for me all day long.

I'd start with whom I have graded higher as a player, but after that - if I have the same grade on them - then I go with the one more likely to have a large impact and that is Simmons. Largely because the Offense is pretty much solid now. Worst case, this Offense could roll out right now and do pretty well.... we cannot say that for the Defense.

We have no LT

That can be fixed before the draft simply by signing a guy like Jason Peters to a one year deal.

And we can see who drops to our 2nd pick.

So ... sign Peters, trade up for Simmons

I dunno. Let’s solve our LT issue. Worry about defense with the rest of the draft.

Peters is 38 years old. That’s who we’d be counting on this season? Bit risky. Then we’re in the same boat next year.


There’s LTs in this draft every bit as good as Simmons. Bad option. 1st we sign Peters thinking Simmons will be there, and then when he isn’t, what do we do then?

I think we should sign the BPA. Teams kill themselves by drafting for need. I think you move down 1 spot, maybe 2. Three spots once every freaking decade, especially if it is a qb.

Gotta think long-term. Draft the BPA on your board.

But i am thinking long-term.

LT is a position that when drafted correctly, sticks with your team through their entire career.

I know you're older than me, but in my lifetime, Walter Jones stayed in Seattle, Bryant McKinnie was in Minnesota, Jonathan Ogden was in Baltimore, Orlando Pace was in St Louis, and Joe Thomas was in Cleveland.


Positions like safety, those guys change teams. Even the best of them. Left Tackles, much less often. They don't reach free agency. When they do, it's someone like Jason Peters at 38. I believe he was traded to the Eagles from Buffalo. I doubt he ever was a free agent. Trent Williams, he's disgruntled. He also was drafted by Washington.


Top LT's are drafted. That's just how it is. They aren't found in Free Agency. There's two guys this year that, barring some unforseen circumstance, play their entire career here (as far as i'm concerned). That's long-term. Those guys are Andrew Thomas and Jedrick Wills.

Anything but a LT, with either one of them on the board, and i'll be pretty disappointed.

We need a LT. We don't have one. That guy protects the franchise.

I'm not going to debate it. We have different opinions and stated them. That's a good thing.

It would hard to pass on Simmons if he were setting there at #10 ... Just Sayin'

Agreed ... if he’s there, I run to the podium

I don't think we can hang with Pitts and Balts of the world without a difference maker on defense.

This is my biggest concern.

I agree .. we really dont have much talent on defense

I think we have some talent on defense.

Myles is one of the best in the game.

Ward is excellent.

Greedy is young and athletic. Rookie corners struggle. He wasn't great, but you can see he is talented.

Mitchell is a quality corner.

Richardson is a very good DT.

Ogunjobi struggles to get off blocks, but he can penetrate and make plays.

Vernon is a quality DE.

Randall can play. Not sure if he is going to be here, though.

Wilson is athletic. He is just very raw and growing physically.

I still can't figure out why we didn't keep Joe.

There are plenty of pieces to build around.

agreed

I agree. We have a good O. It was poorly coached last season. Our D needs a big boost. It's tough to win many games if you are counting on the O to put up 28-30 points a game to have a chance.

MG is not a difference maker ...

For u and rish and anyone else who wants to play ...

What is your definition of a difference maker
What “category” do u put MG in if not the difference maker one
Who are difference makers currently in the league

I do think MG is.....I only agreed in the sense we need to start improving the D. It lags behind what we have on the O side of the ball.

lol, not for Peen. But for anyone who thinks he isn't, what happened to the defense after he got suspended last year? I think that showed pretty loud and clear what kind of Difference Maker #95 is.

I reckon he'll be the highest paid defensive player in football sometime in 2020 (or early 2021). I think he's entering in year 4.



I maintain what i say though. I know folks want a difference maker on defense. That can wait. We've got an opportunity to get a legit NFL LT. That's a position that's very difficult to get. Guys like that don't just become available. The good ones are locked up and kept forever.

I am not sure when we'll be in this position again.


Get a real LT while there's one available. Draft a LB next year

Okay.........I am going to try this again w/you. Not to argue back-and-forth, but to clarify my position.

I say that you draft BPA and never move more than a spot or two. BB said the most ever would be 3 spots off of your vertical board, but that would have to be for a qb.

I said that drafting the BPA gives teams a better chance at long-term success. The thinking is ....... better players will almost certainly make your team better over a long period of time rather than reaching for players who fit a need.

You countered with Left tackles are for the long term. You named a few. I will counter w/this......the Rams needed a LT in the worst way not too long ago. They drafted Gregg Robinson #2 overall. How did that work out? The Rams didn't get better until they parted ways w/him and signed Whitworth in FA. There are many more examples like that.

I am not asking you to agree w/me, but I think not drafting the BPA is almost always a mistake.

Let me add two more examples that might be more familiar.

Years ago, Savage asked RAC about what he wanted. The latter wanted an edge rusher. We traded w/Baltimore to move back one spot and get a 6th round pick. The Rats selected Ngata, which allowed us to choose Kam Wimbley. Huge mistake!

There was another time when Pet wanted Gilber. We traded out of number 4 and then back up to get him at 8. He was a position of need. Khalil Mack was available at 4. So was Mike Evans. Imagine Khalil Mack on this team instead of Gilber?

Nah man............don't draft for need. Draft BPA!

Your examples though. I mean, Greg Robinson had plenty of question marks when he was drafted. A guy with ability but who hadn't put it together. That's not the case with the two guys i mentioned.

As for Gilbert, that was just a bad pick. I was high on him when he came out, but who knew he was a lazy player with more athleticism than skill (without the interest in getting better).


Just to be clear, i'm not for trading down. I'm just saying, Thomas and Wills are can't miss guys. Not saying they're gonna be in the HOF, but to me, they'll certainly be decent quality starters beginning this year and will develop into good to great starters in the future.

They're far safer bets than either of those guys.



We're just going to disagree here.

Either way, my question is, what's your solution at LT if we don't get one? Kendall Lam? We gonna sign 38 year old Jason Peters? Trent Williams (who we'd have to trade for, has missed games every year since 2013 (and didn't even play last season because of his dispute with Washington?)

Cause i'd rather go into next season with an answer at LT and a question mark at LB/S instead of a question mark at LT and Issiah Simmons.

Maybe i just am having flashbacks of Bud Dupree blindside rocking Baker on a joke of a play by Justin McCray. That position is just too important. And my two top guys are very good players. Maybe if both are gone, i'd think twice with Becton and Wirfs. But certainly with Wills and Thomas, I wouldn't think twice about them. LT is a vital position. LB/S is not.

The only player i'd consider over those two would be Chase Young. Obviously he won't be there, but that guy's really good. And he's a pass rusher.


EDIT: All in all, i see your point. Generally, i agree. But LT must be settled. We have a chance to settle it. And if there's a very good LT there, the fact that they're LTs raises their value immensely. There's a reason that they aren't easy to get in FA. (It's because they're hard to find)

I think successful teams go more BPA than drafting off of need.

I think between Simmons and any Tackle.. both of those players would fill a need since we lost two of our starting LBs, and never quite got the quality answer at tackle last year. So we win either way. Another reason I personally wouldn't trade up.

Good counter-post. I enjoy civil debates such as this one. You made some outstanding points.

Do you remember back in the day when that was the norm? I miss those days. Now, I have guys quoting me and then saying I said things I never even came close to saying. It's disgusting.

We do disagree and that's cool. On the other hand, we might agree more than we are letting on.

Good football conversation, bro. I appreciate it. I wish the board could get back to debates such as this one.

We could always bring back Whitner vs Ward,lol.

But yes, good debate. I don’t think either of our minds will change on this one.

Just different strategies.

Lets put it this way...I would be a happy camper getting either one. LT or LB with madd speed. LT would be here for 10 years giving us top status at that position a rare position at that.

The other I think would have a more positive result seen with the D talent we got now but where would he be when his 2nd contract rolls around???

Do we go Sexy or just steady no frills???

jmho as mentioned I'm happy with either.

Soooo, what if Wills or Thomas is within 3 spots on their vertical board with Simmons?

Burrows, Young, Simmons, Okudah, Brown, Wills/Thomas/Wirfs/Becton.

Obviously, I have no idea what the Browns vertical board looks like, so it's hard to answer. I'll throw something out that addresses your hypothetical.

Regarding Simmons, Wills, and Thomas: I would never drop down three spots on my Vertical board to fill a position of need unless it was a qb. Even then, I would be leery. That's how the Rats ended up w/Kyle Boller. Ozzie wanted to follow his board and Billick convinced ownership to draft Boller anyway. That didn't work out so well.

Anyway.......I would draft the BPA of those three guys. I might move down one spot for the LT, but maybe not. It depends on how much of a difference your point total is. The ideal situation for the Browns would be if they had Thomas rated higher than Simmons and both were still available.

I am one that thinks that LTs are still extremely important. I don't believe that RT's and guards are as important. The gap has closed, but there is still a gap.

On the other hand, I don't think it would be wise to discount the importance of all the things a guy like Simmons could do for your defense. Rush the passer; cover TEs and RBs; play in the short, intermediate, and deep zones; shadow athletic QBs like Lamar, etc.

I kinda doubt that Wills/Thomas and Simmons will all be available, so we are just shooting the breeze. We just have to hope that some of the qbs shoot up into the top ten.

Ward all day long.

Wellput and reasoned, Vers. I would take Simmons in a tossup because he could have game-changing impact about every play. He could expand how the defense plays and gives it more options and looks. The tackle is crucial, but contribute at a different level in different ways. If Simmons falls to us, I take him; I might try to get back in soon in that round if a solid LT was wanted. I much prefer filling these two than BPA as our scheme in the draft. I am eager to see how this works out.

I don't think we can hang with the Pitts and Balts of the world without another difference maker on D.

Better?

Myles and a bunch of stiffs don't mean much.

It like there should be an additional score, or a modifier to the board that accounts for impact potential. Like a force multiplier score.

LT is still VERY important.
Safety is still VERY important.

But, what are the game changing impacts of an elite LT vs an elite S?
It's hard to gauge because the impact plays by a Safety show up in the stat sheet, but the impact made by a LT are stats that are prevented from happening.

I agree with that completely. We need difference makers at all levels of the defense. Each position group should have one.

How about this?

Trade OBJ to Jets for their first this year. Package our first and Jets first, move up and take Simmons. Sign Clowney to front loaded contract. Re-sign Higgins. Draft best WR with one of top 4 picks.

I'm not "we should trade OBJ" guy. Just want a balanced team and dominant D. We have no chance to win the division without a dominant D.

In most every case, if one follows the money, it tells us a story.

Top safety money.....

Titans safety Kevin Byard: $14.1 million.
Chiefs safety Tyrann Mathieu: $14 million.
Redskins safety Landon Collins: $14 million.
Ravens safety Earl Thomas: $13.75 million.
Dolphins safety Reshad Jones: $12 million.
Raiders safety Lamarcus Joyner: $10.5 million.

Aug 7, 2019

Top OT money

Raiders offensive lineman Trent Brown: $16.5 million.
Titans offensive lineman Taylor Lewan: $16 million.
Giants offensive lineman Nate Solder: $15.5 million.
Falcons offensive lineman Jake Matthews: $14.5 million.

Aug 8, 2019

Whether that be impact or the skill set required, the NFL values the OT position higher than the S position.

In this scenario, I’d rather sign Peters or get Trent than sign Clowney then ... the only drawback to drafting Simmons would be passing on a top OT in my opinion.

I’d love to get Simmons AND a top OT haha

Myles Garrett has 30 1/2 sacks in 37 games 13 1/2 in 2018 10 in 10 games last year I think you guys way underestimating how much of a difference Myles makes ... Put him on the open Market and I will bet you (even though I don't bet) he would have 31 teams salivating over him and would break the DE market ... JMHO

You missed the point.

Really you tell me what the point is?

No one said Myles wasn't a difference maker.

Just that he's the only one.

Will Simmons or Thomas be available?

Guys surely taken before our pick.
Joe Burrow QB
Tua Tagovailoa QB
Chase Young DE
Jeffry Okudah CB

Ok I think it is 100% certain that all four of those players will be gone before we pick. So who will be the other 5??? And are there 6 players that are worthy, leaving at least one at our pick???

The pundits think Justin Herbert QB will be gone in the top 9 Leaving 5 players who are worthy.

It would be amazing if another QB went. Perhaps Jordan Love??? Leaving 4 worthy.

Would a WR go, lately they don't get taken early but there are 3 potential early WRs out there. Ruggs the fastest and then you got Judy and Lamb both amazing WRs.

I think Derrik Brown will be a top 9 pick for certain.

So lets say ONE of the WRs go and Brown of course. Leaving 2 worthy...
Simmons, Becton, Thomas, Wirfs, Wills So I think its safe to say ONE of these 5 desireables will be there at 10.

You also have Kinlaw and Henderson in case defense starts going early. I am pretty sure we will have the 2nd feed of an OT out there. Pretty sure with all the Combine wonders somebody is going to fall for Becton an amazing specimen of an athlete although I don't think he is the best LT out there. Leaving us with the best. Thomas, Wirfs or Wills for sure.

Simmons if he is the stud all think he is surely he will be gone. If he is a workout wonder then I think he will be there at 10 or possibly drop even more.

jmho...time to change my sig...lol

Ok My fault I misread the post forgive me ...

It is going to be very interesting
If 2 qbs go off the board before 3 there is a excellent chance that 4 qbs go off the board before ten.

It would be a excellent draft with chase young at 5 and redskins have 3 number 1 picks.
That would mean that there are 4 tackles at 5 and Chase Young
WR there is no way 9 picks come and go without 1 wr being drafted.
In conclusion there will be a top tackle available at 10.

Simmons has great LBer instincts..seems to always be around the ball and gets off blocks quick enough to make the tackle.

I found it interesting the way Clemson used him, lining him up deep..so deep that he played as a Safety, yet with his speed he was able to cover enough ground to be an effective LBer, still making stops near the LOS.

Special talent..but I doubt the Browns will be willing to pay the price to move up from 10 to get him.

jmo..mac

Simmons will probably be gone by the time we pick. We really have a desperate need at LBer due to the moves made and not made this off-season. So, I was thinking of who we could draft to play LBer. I want a guy who is good in coverage. Here is an article from PFF on this year's linebackers. Who stands out to you as a possible LBer who can cover?

https://www.pff.com/news/draft-2020-nfl-draft-position-rankings-linebackers

The top three LBs' are all pretty good in coverage. (Simmons, Murray, and Queen)

The next best coverage LB is Willie Gay.

Troy Dye is also good coverage LB too, but he is a terrible run defender and lacks playing strength.

Thanks.

Murray is the one that is a bit confusing. Some sites say he is good in coverage. Others do not. Here is what PFF said:

I would love to have Patrick Queen I’d we trade down for pick #10.

I think Willie Gay Jr. can be a steal in the 3rd round! I like him a lot. I also like Murray more than most but he will go in the late first round if there at our 2nd round pick we should take him. His coverage is not bad and remember all of these guys are suspect in NFL coverage they have not seen TE and RBs with the Receiving and route running skills as those in the NFL so they all are starting at that square one situation.

jmho

https://www.theringer.com/2020/4/7/21210273/isaiah-simmons-positionless-versatile-defender

I actually would like to clarify my previous post keeping the top three the same, only I shouldn't have included Murray in top coverage LBers.

I think that Queen is hands down the best
Complete LB in the Draft not named Simmons who I will simple call the defender.

Murray is a down hill LB whose talents lend themselves to the college game making splash plays, but overall he shows inconsist play when not making said spash plays, and he was a non factor in their PD.

He has all the tools, but he is going to need time in transitioning to the League.

A team who Drafts him is going to have to be patient,and the same with Willie Gay imo.

The guy I am intrigued with is Logan Wilson, OLB/ILB, Wyoming.

Give me OG Jonah Jackson and Logan Wilson with our two 3rd rounds selections.

That was a good read. Thanks.

Simmons might be my favorite LB coming out of the draft since Leighton Vander Esch.

I want him. LOL

I wanted Aaron Curry too .. yikes. Lol but I think Simmons is a sure shot

I don't know why but Queen has never been in my radar and I am ignorant on him as a prospect. Only the last couple of days have I heard him mentioned. So hard for me to speak of him.

Murray reminds me of Peppers.

jmho

For a number of reasons I have been almost completely out of this draft.

I just started to look at a couple of players.

Simmons really stands out. My comparison Sean Taylor.

Bucky Brooks made an interesting comment the other day. When he said "if Simmons was there at 10 the Browns would have to take him. He is one guy who could neutralize Lamar."

The article makes perfect sense. Simmons game translates to the NFL today. Offenses are always looking for matchups. Simmons is the type of player that is never mismatched.

I would love to get this guy.

It will be interesting to see how the Browns handle the first round.

j/c

Random thought/prediction; Simmons is special, not so much because his skill set is unique, but because of his ability to apply that skill set so flexibly within a defensive scheme. Like Taysom Hill, others with the same skill set see how he plays and imitate. 2-3 yrs from now, we will be talking about Simmons-type players.

Derwin James is the prototype. Now there will be a bunch of new models.

The problem with those down hill type players in college, like Murray and Peppers, who made the majority of their splash plays attacking the LOS ... is the fact that they will be asked to do many more things in the scheme of the defense that does not play to their strengths of attacking the LOS the majority of the time.

Some of these liabilities of inexperience can be overcome if the prospects have the physical attributes, but their physical attributes are no guarantee, nor an indication of mental processing and football IQ going forward.

That is the risk incurred in drafting players whose skill set is not a good transition to the next level.

The perception is that that they will make simular plays at the next level, but the reality is that know body knows for sure, because there is a lack of evidence of a body of work from which to project.

To me Murray falls into the boom or bust moniker.

We have a serious problem and his name is Lamar Jackson...

I have been in the mindset of drafting a LT at 10 all along but my thoughts around that have started to change. LT is the obvious need but I do believe trying to stop Lamar twice a year and possibly the playoffs outweighs our need for a top of the first round type LT. We did beat him once last year but in the other game he could of ran for 300 yds if he wanted to.

I'm not opposed to drafting Simmons at 10 and I may not be opposed to moving up to get him....he is the ideal player to counter Lamar - top end speed, sure tackler and he can shed and explode through gaps...

Simmons may be more impactful than a top Lt in terms of winning the division we play in.

I agree w/the thought of stopping Lamar ... but we also have to block Watt, Bush, Minkah, etc too. They expose the crap out of poor OTs

Agreed, but what's the drop off between Simmons and the next guy, and the top 4 LT and the next level.

It's why you almost always draft BPA. Of course, there are exceptions, such as if a WR is your highest remaining player, but if it comes down to Simmons and one of the LT's, I think you have to draft your highest rated guy.

The more I look at this draft. The more I want Simmons.

With Schobert gone and safety a question mark. The Browns need a player like Simmons.

My take is if we can get Simmons we have other options to land a LT. A trade for Williams. Or, a move to land the 5th, 6th or 7th available LT.

Josh Jones, Austin Jackson, or Ezra Cleveland are all possibilities. I am just going off LT prospect rankings. Have not looked at any tape.

Simmons is an impact specialist. A play maker with great versatility and a guy who can bring turnovers. In addition he could be a Lamar stopper.

I am always in favor of players who can change games. Make plays that turn games around. Simmons looks to be that type.

The Giants could very well take him at four. If so go to plan B. If he is there with pick 7. The Browns might have to consider moving up to get him. If there at ten IMO. You gotta take this guy.

Brian urlacher

Yikes lol

Best post of the year vers.
That said if Simmons could just shut down the other teams tight end we win 3 more games putting us in the playoffs.
Playoffs first game he shuts down Travis Kelce we double tyreek
and put ward on Watkins Browns win that game because KC could not stop the run.

This of course is the fan in me speaking but it illustrates the upside of simmons

If Simmons is there, you take him. He might be the best player in this draft. Then sign Williams. Get a safety in round two, and don't look back.

Ok so if he is there at 7 do you jump up and trade a 3rd to get him? I would in a heartbeat

yep - if that is all it costs. Doubtful, though.

Each day, I am more and more in the mindset of getting Simmons. As others have said, he is a difference maker. And would be a huge asset to have to try and neutralize Lamar.

Does this mean we need to acquire Williams to play LT? That would cost some capital (draft pick(s)/player(s)). Peters would not cost capital but doesn't have the shelf life of Williams.

Getting Simmons might also cost some capital, no guarantee he falls to 10. But what a get he would be.

Thats not a big jump altough they could ask for a 2 or maybe a 3 and 5

My thought on Simmons is he either falls to us at 10, or we take an OT. Trading for Trent Williams might change my mind about that.

The Draft Chart Has #7 and #10 as a 200 point difference our first 3rd has a value of 230

I am probably leaning this way too with us needing that LT ...

I think people are going to be very disappointed if they think we will be able to draft Simmons.

If he's there after the Giants pick at four, the phones will be ringing off the hook for the next three teams.

5. MIAMI wants their QB - no go.

6. CHARGERS are a possibility, especially since Miami will take their choice at QB

7. PANTHERS - I've said since the beginning that there is no way Simmons gets past Rhule at 7. I doubt that they would trade out.

In any event, supply and demand kicks in and these three teams will demand a lot. I doubt if you get there with less than a 1st round swap and your 2nd round pick... that may not even be enough.

I would start working on the Chargers now. With the 10 pick they still get their QB...

I would offer my 3rd round (no 41) and Kareem Hunt. If the Giants take Simmons you have your pick of OL, BPA or the bevy of offers once teams get itchy for a certain player.

This works for the Chargers because their QB will still be there @ 10. Carolina (7) has Bridgewater, Cards (8) have Murray, and Jax has Foles and Minshew and need serious help on the Oline and Dline.

Kareem Hunt is not under contract.

If the Chargers want a QB why would they screw around and not take him at seven?

The interesting thing at #4 is the Dave Gettlmen factor. In the past two drafts, he has taken a RB and QB with their first pick. Does he go OT to further protect and justify the prior picks and surround them with line help to possibly benefit both players? Don't forget, he traded for Zeitler.

I also think the LB is losing its value for many teams in the NFL, but I wouldn't believe that Gettleman would be a part of that thinking. He's a "Good Ole Boy", "Trust Your Gut" kinda GM.

Because they get assets and the QB will still be there at 10.

Forgot about Hunt's situation, at what point can we trade him?

Yeah. I don't think we'll be drafting Simmons. I also don't think we'll be trading for Williams. (For a number of reasons)




We didn't re-sign Schobert. We cut Kirksey. With no guarantee for Simmons, it sort of shows our team's priorities in terms of LB.

I don't see us trading up. I think if we were going to get Williams, we probably would have by now (that or we have something secure in the case that someone we want that isn't a LT is there at 10). And it's doubtful that Simmons will even be there.


Even if he is, we need to cover the LT position. Financially, it makes sense for us to pick up a LT in the draft. I don't think they're going to want to designate more money to the O-Line with the age that we're invested in it. Doesn't fit the spreadsheet.

Just like signing Clowney for any set of time over a year. Doesn't fit the plan. Garrett has to be re-signed to a mega deal, and they will want a rookie contract alongside him.

What's to stop another team that needs a QB to trade up in front of them? If teams need/wants QB they stay where they are and pick them.



Once he signs his tender. Also, the Chargers just signed Austin Ekeler to an extension. My bet is that they won't want to sign Kareem Hunt to an extension. If they don't wan to sign him then he has little value on a one year deal.

If a team values Simmons as only a linebacker then they are doing things wrong.



The cap will not be a problem. We have over $40,203,974 in cap space. If Clowney was signed Vernon would be released so we would lose probably about $5 million in cap space for 2020. In future years the cap is going to have a huge spike because of the new TV deal. There are rumors that the cap will go up about $40 million as soon as next season.

Carolina (7) has Bridgewater, Cards (8) have Murray, and Jax (9) has Foles and Minshew and need serious help on the Oline and Dline.

Right. What's to stop a team like the Raiders or Buccaneers or Patriots or whoever from trading in front of the Chargers if they think they are going to take a QB?

The bottomline is this -- if there is a QB you like on the board and you need a QB you take the QB. You don't trade down. You don't say, "We really like this QB, let's grab this extra third round pick and hope he is there after three more picks."

The guy has to play a position. He has to learn a position. What position do you see him playing?



As the cap goes up, so will everyone's contracts. The way i see it, we have potentially 3 very high costing deals. Baker, Myles, and Denzel. Those three will have to be paid. Their contract will reflect whatever the future cap is.

We're preparing for this. That's why we're signing these 1 year deals, hoping to get compensation picks. I don't expect us trading away draft assets this year (or next), only acquiring. We will not be active in FA next year

j/c:

This thread got crazy. LOL

I don't even want to get into the possible scenarios, but Simmons is not just a LBer.

That's the whole point about Simmons.

He is a human Swiss Army knife.

I am speculating here about Stefanski. He played safety. He knows the value of slot coverage in nickle and dime packages. Having a player like Simmons who can cover, rush, read, and tackle is a great asset that I am sure he would covet.

Berry? But I am sure Berry and Depo would see the value that Simmons would bring.

I liked your first post about Simmons. I was talking about all the trades and who will draft whom posts. Yours was good and I tend to agree. Hell, that is why I started the thread. The dude can ball.

One word of caution. I don't think he gets off of blocks very well. Thus, he might not be a good run defender in traffic. He will be good in the open field, but not when it is real congested.

I'd move the dude all over the place and not ask him to be a big-time run defender w/set responsibilities. But, that's just me.

He can do things beyond a LB, but he still has to have a position.

Like it or not, he’s a rookie. You don’t want to overload him with too much on his plate. The NFL is a big step


And if we change the defense for him, playbook and all, we need to think about who can back him up

Well, we're going to disagree on that one. But, that's cool.

For the first time in many years I have not gotten into the draft.

Until just recently Simmons was just a name to me. Then I watched him and was like damn.

I didn't watch a minute of the combine.

Watching Simmons made me go and look. Again damn son.

I have no idea how the draft will play out? Who will trade? Outside of Burrow going one. And who knows the Bengals?

No matter what happens and who gets Simmons. He will be a player to watch.

I would love to see an orange helmet with a stripe down the middle on his head.

Like I have said several times in this thread. Derwin James is the prototype. Just do what the Chargers do with him and then build on it because Simmons is better.



I don't think the cap sets the market, other players' contracts do. I believe the QB market is going to be set by Patrick Mahomes and everyone is waiting on him.



I agree with this.

I don't think James is the same player as Simmons. He is quite a bit smaller. He is more of a true safety.

Both are similar in that they are athletic and versatile, but their strengths are different.

I would say that Simmons is rather unique. He is a cross between a guy like James and an Urlacher or a Tremane Edmunds.

We have to hit on draft picks and player development in order to hit next year's FA with less holes than we did this year. The 1-year deals do their job as long as you don't have to do more 1-year deals to fill the whole from the last 1-year deal.

I kind of worry Simmons is just a more creatively used Obi Melifonwu with more publicity. His performance on the whiteboard/in interviews will be (should be?) big with him. It's easy to get caught up in the athletic measurables. The supremely gifted guys might be the ones that need dug into the most.

The idea of Simmons is tantalizing. Doing the homework and having a plan will be paramount in the idea being realized.

What is he? How does he fit our scheme? What is our scheme?

Counting on talent and assuming things will work out is what people thought would work with Erving and the Nevada OL guy whose name I already forget.

Jc...Simmons is a freak athlete, he reminds me a lot of Boss Bailey when he was coming out of UGA...Minus the injuries, and obviously more versatile than Boss ever was.

I ask because I don't know. Not trying to troll...

I wonder if he reminds anyone of Aaron Curry. That "can't miss" LB that Seattle (?) drafted right in front of us that was the darling of that draft. He busted pretty hard.

Significantly better than Curry. Completely different athlete. Reminds me of Sean Taylor. Long, lean, strong, and fast.

I'm liking him more as well and all depends who we have determined to be the #1 or #2 LT prospect in this draft and if he is available when we pick but who ahead of us is a possible/probable suitor for Simmons.

4-9 got D, QB or LT on their mind...they can go either way.

What if Simmons and Okudah are both available???

Pretty sure Okuday will be taken but also pretty sure Simmons will be taken. How much do teams value Derek Brown...that kid is a BEAST!!! He should be gone.

Pretty sure 3 QBs will come off the table.

It would be great if somebody would go for Lamb before us.
How many would think about Kinlaw if DT was a big need?

Also CJ Henderson should be a stud as well!

So many deserving to be top 10.

If we get Trent Williams along with Simmons that would be key and pretty excellent as a pair. Do we go for Cleveland in the 2nd round? and let him learn the position all the while be security for a Guy who has gotten hurt a lot.

jmho???? Lot of questions none bad for us Browns all Good options.

No worries, I didn't take it the wrong way...After all, its all a projection anyways. I say Boss Bailey, as I can't remember a top LB who was 6'3 almost 240lbs and that could run a 4.42 (Boss's speed if I remember correctly) Boss was a projected top 15 pick that year, and dropped to the top of round 2 (Not saying Simmons will by any means, Boss had medical issues) Simmons has super elite skills, and can play multiple positions...something Boss couldn't do. Though I wonder if he could be a tad overhyped, but that happens often...Then again his testing numbers were at levels that are rarely seen for a LB. I surely won't be mad if he selected him, providing he falls to us.

I remember Aaron Curry...And I believe he was never able to play at his level once tearing his knee badly...Showed promise, but I remember he was considered a safe pick as well. Oddly and sadly, those rare instances and occurrences can happen to anyone...even the safe picks.

Did a little research and Curry's knee injury happened after Seattle let him go (so after he "busted").

Fun fact: Eric Barton (lb that played for the Browns during the Mangini years) is Curry's brother.

The Browns are in a very good position at ten. The Giants at four will be a tipping point. It is my belief that they will draft a tackle. My guess is Becton.


After that the question is who jumps up for a qb?

We have options and flexibility. So I feel pretty good. If things go my way we will land Simmons. But the draft can be a wild west show.

In the end I feel we will field a good team.

I'm going for one of the tackles, but I definitely agree. The Giants will give us a hint as to where this draft is going to go

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/mock-draft/

Check this one out.. bears to the point.. 2 of 3 have GMen taking Wills the 3rd has them taking Simmons.

Something tells me that's accurate percentages. And all 3 have us taking Andrew Thomas

I guess we'll have to see.

I'm not sure any of these guys know that well. No one is even in their team facilities. I bet reporters are struggling to reach out to their sources like they used to. Easier for teams to give out info they want to give out and keep a lid on what they want to keep a lid on

That would be a dream come true for King John.. remember how little came out of Berea during his reign..

I remember that and I loved it - it was like we were a professionally run outfit once again.

This is true. Seemed like there weren't many leaks with Dorsey.

Jeremiah has Simmons dropping to #10 and the Browns taking him ...

I wish that would be true, but I kinda doubt it, Pastor.

I think the Browns are in a really wonderful situation with this draft.

There is enough top tier talent that is going to fall to the Browns at 10. Even with only a couple of QB's going (Burrow & Tua) - we are extremely likely to have Thomas, Kinlaw or Simmons fall to us. The Browns brass may even prefer Wills or Wirfs ... Simmons is absolutely a long shot to slide, but there is definitely a chance.

That gives us the chance to land a potential plug and play starter at 10.

There are also a number of excellent players that we could potentially trade back for into the late teens and early 20's and who would be great pick ups for us: Delpit, McKinney and Patrick.

In round 2 there are guys like Davis, Muti, Winfield ... and depending how they climb or who we take in Round 1 - Becton/Cleveland might be options at OT.

I really think we have the chance to - without drafting for need - fill holes with excellent talent in rounds 1 and 2. And depending on a player someone covets falling, we have enough quality options to make something work in our favor.

Simmons will be off the board at pick 3 or 4.

For sure I do not see the Panthers letting him get past their pick.

But crazy things happen especially when trades go down.

So, we shall see.

Should we file this under an "Act of God"? I have trouble with it; this seems like an answered prayer or at the least well beyond wishful thinking, hopes and dreams. I might surrender a bit of the future for Simmons, especially if he can help in a variety of positions/situations. Speed kills. I like his speed in our division.

Him, a tackle, a LB. We have done well in FA. I am not frantic too round up a bunch later round picks. Hopefully we can impact our starters. Simmons may be a pricey bargain.

I like Simmons a lot but I do wonder in the scheme of making a team and fitting pieces of the puzzle together, if
there is a team of superstars but the pieces just don't mesh. So my question is what would help our team more in the future.

A pure LT that is not a stop gap but here for the next 10 years. Or an excellent Will LB in a 4-3 scheme.

The other question is why would a player of the athletic ability of Simmons be available in the draft at pick #10. I have his Athletic ability just a tad under Youngs. One would have to question Hey why is Young available at #5??? Is it possible? For me its the same question with Simmons at #10.

jmho...would he be best for this team?

Simmons is much more than just a Will LBer.

It will be interesting to follow how whomsoever drafts him ... utilizes him.

I would move him all over the field. Edge rusher, Cover the flat WLBer. Cover 2 safety. Cover 3 safety. Mirror mobile QBs. Inside blitzes from all 3 LBer spots.

Lining him up at one position would be a huge mistake.

I agree, ... And I think that it will naturally be a process of adding more wrinkles as he gains more experience (if) he goes to the right team.

Which brings up a question regarding the Giants as a possible landing spot.

And the question is; would NY be a good fit for Simmons with the 4th selection?

I don't know enough anout their team to know the answer, but I think that it's fair to say that thay haven't always done so in the past.

Yeah, it sure seems like the Giants are stuck in the Dark Ages.

I understand that he is a stud and a DC would have a ball with him moving him all around. The only key factor for me is that he would be the perfect Mirror LB to cover Lamar Jackson and render him ineffective. But as an awesome Defense you can make it so without drafting Simmons.

I'm not sure we can have an awesome O without that Stud LT and this is the ONE TIME draft to get one of this caliber.

I don't think we lose either way. However I do think the "TEAM" will become a better TEAM with a stud LT then a Stud player like Simmons. But I would be a happy camper if we ended up drafting him. I'm a defensive guy at heart and still think Defense wins Championships!

jmho

My concern is are they really stud OTs? Or do we think so because it's a down year for Edge players outside of Chase Young?

I'm not saying they are bad, but they might not be especially battle tested. They maybe didn't face competition particularly capable of exposing their flaws.

I'm ready to see how it plays out.

(I'm not trying to make bold declarations one way or the other, just trying to examine all the possible angles)

I'm on board with Simmons if he's there. I think he's more safety/big nickle than LB, though.

Best top 4 I've ever seen in a draft. As in EVER we aren't talking RBs who in a weak draft class move up and become valuable. This draft class is not weak at all.

The order of rarest of positions for studs is.

#1 QB
#2 LT
#3 Edge Rushers
#4 CB

Those are the rare skill set positions and this is the strongest ever that I can remember for LT. Its a plus when you can get one of those.

We got #1 never before since 1999 have we gotten #1.

We got #3 a great one in Garrett man when we lost him for those 6 games our Defense went South fast and we lost a lot of games that should have been wins.

We got #4 in Ward.

What is missing in this picture...Its pretty easy and that 4th best OT or 4th chosen OT is so far better than #5, 6 or 7 it ain't funny. I just saw another mock draft with - Oh I took Simmons and then got Cleveland in the 2nd. Who I like but its not the same as having one of the 4. It might be the best shot of a real LT. Of course I would like my first preference which is Wirfs, said that from day one. And now that its close to the draft he is coming up as the #1 OT taken as these guys get the word from GMs not looking for a LT on who is best.

If we get Simmons I will be happy cause he could be great in the right hands. Who knows what hands do we have. I liked Greg Williams. I have no clue on Woods.

Outside of Callahan and Stump Mitchell we have a very young staff. Who knows

Yup. No matter what personnel the opponent trots out, we could slide him around and takeaway any matchup/mismatch they were trying to exploit.

That sort of player plus guys like Ward on the back end gives a defense a LOT of flexibilty.

I guess I could say is why is a top LT available at #10?

My answer on Simmons is he won't be there at 10, and if he is, you jump on that in a hurry a hunt for another LT. Jump back in to the last part of round 1 if necessary and grab Cleveland or the kid from USC.

Face it, if there is a run on LT's, say 3 are drafted before us, we are going to be selecting the 4th best LT in the draft....at least according to 3 other teams.

Maybe it's just me, but I don't want to be drafting the 4th best anything with the 10th pick in the first round. That is a total reach IMO unless that 4th best LT grades out better players still on the board.

I have a feeling we have one LT in mind at 10. If he is there, we take him. If he isn't there we go D with that pick, and trade up to grab Cleveland near the bottom of the round.

We do have other needs on the team. I would sign Peters to a 2 year deal, front loaded and pluck a LT in round 2 so he could sit and learn behind Peters for a season or two.

Round 1, give the D some love. Javon Kinlaw would look great in our uniform. That guy has pro bowl written all over him.

I'd be okay with this plan if our OT is gone at 10. I'd do it for Isaiah Simmons, Derrick Brown, Javon Kinlaw, or Jeffrey Okudah if our LT of choice isn't available. I might do it even if he was available. Jason Peters (or Trent Williams) could man our LT very well for the short term. You'd have to trade draft capital to get Williams, but he has a longer window than Peters.

There are times when it is all about the measure of the player.

How do any of the the top four tackle prospects measure up to Simmons?

Are the top four so much better than Ezra Cleveland, Josh Jones, or Austin Jackson who we could get later?

In principle I agree this may be the draft to get a LT that could hold the position for ten years.

The big question is how good is Simmons? Is he a HOF prospect that can change games?

That is the question the Browns staff must answer.

How big of a contract do Williams and Peters require?

Do we really want to invest that much money into our O-Line? That's one of the reasons a rookie LT makes sense. Because we have serious contracts with Bitonio, Tretter, and Conklin.

I think so.

From what i've seen of Ezra Cleveland, he doesn't impress me that much. He's going to get pushed around by the big boys in the NFL.

Williams will probably need a $16-18M per year contract, but he is 6 years younger than Peters and many believe he's a top 5 LT, and maybe the best. Peters made $6M last year with the Eagles, so its hard to imagine him getting much more than that now that he's a year older (38 or 39).

I heard from DJ on NFL network that the Browns like Josh Jones and that he would be a good fit.

Again to me it is all about the grade on the player.

For argument let's say the Giants go tackle which I believe they will. If three qb's go in the top ten. I think we have a good chance to get Simmons.

Maybe for the Browns it is all about which tackles are there at ten. Maybe they rank them differently.

He's next on my guys to really watch.


I've really keyed in on five tackles at this point. Seen a little of Austin Jackson. So far, the top four are much better than the bottom two (Cleveland and Jackson).



I'm not getting the Cleveland stuff. It's clear he's a good athlete. He's quick with good feet, but i just don't think he's a particularly good tackle. Certainly not the one i want to bet on being able to protect Baker next year.

He just seems, soft. Not a bookend LT that's going to anchor the line for years to come

I notice you haven't been an active participant on the OL thread in the PFF. If a guy is quick and has good feet at the LT, why are you saying he isn't a particularly good LT?

I haven't studied the guy, so I am not defending him. I just don't get your analysis.

Had a quickie look to see what I can find on JJ - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ywIfVIGSyyk

If being quick and having good feet is all it took to be a good LT, wouldn't LT's generally all be TE's.


My issue with the guy is that he just seems to get pushed around too much. I don't see much power at all. I feel that with NFL competition, he's going to get tossed around. Susceptible to power moves and such.


Now, i have no clue what his combine stats were. Haven't looked at any of their combine stats. Just going off of how i felt watching his tape.


I'm not going so far as comparing him to this Bruce Campbell guy. Didn't even remember who he was, looked him up and saw he was a total bust. I just think he's a significant step down from the other four. I don't see what i see with Wills, Thomas, Wirfs, or Becton. Not at all.



EDIT: And i've lurked in the OLine thread a bit, just haven't posted that i can remember. I'm only active on a few threads because i'm pretty busy lately. I've become a stay-at-home dad while my wife works from home and daycare is closed. Turns out that's as much work as my actual job

I wasn't being confrontational. I was simply asking for clarification.

Oh, absolutely. Didn't think you were. I'm not being confrontational either.

No worries.

reason a quality LT prospect is there at #10 is cause there is more than one of them.

I'm liking Andrew Thomas more n more for us at #10 but the guy I'm dropping like a hot potato is Becton. Once I read "LAZY" I see bust all over him.

jmho If Becton is the last one and available at #10, I'm hoping Simmons is there

This year I have not studied film on draft prospects.


I am curious about ranking the top seven and how close they are in grades?

If anyone has studied Ezra Cleveland, Josh Jones, and Austin Jackson? I have read that they also could go in the first round.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001...ed-before-jeudy


Has anyone ranked them close to the top four. I heard early on from DJ of NFL network that Josh Jones has shot up the Board and would be a good fit in Cleveland.

We're getting much closer to being on the same page.

I am shocked if Simmons is there, but I don't need all these pre-qualifying conditions to pick him over a tackle. I like three, not four, of the most mentioned tackles. MY real quandary is how far up I would trade for a solid left tackle and Simmons. That pair would make for a greatly successful draft for me.

I doubt that Simmons get past Carolina at #7...

I agree.

Whose Carolinas tackles?

traded for Okung

If that was to me ... whose there other one? .. or wouldn’t they consider a RT at #7?

That was for you and I would think they would consider Wirfs and/or Wills as well as D. Brown and Simmons at #7.

They do not have much at DT.

But that is the team that worries me about taking Simmons.

The other is 23 year old Dennis Daley.

He will be 33 this year and he is on the last year of his contract so if a LT is there that they like I could easily see them taking one.

I thought we would need to move up to at least 7. That might scramble a few boards, I suspect. Simmons AND a LT would be a great draft IMO.

Simmons and the right LT, yes. Simmons and the wrong LT, not so much. I'm sure you were implying the right LT part.

We need an LT that won't get Baker/Chubb killed in the backfield consistently.

It would be nice to get both.

To note, though.... while it would be great if we got the 2nd coming of Joe Thomas, it's perfectly acceptable to get a guy that will simply be a solid starting LT for the next 8-10 years. That would still be the right LT.

Yeah, we just need an above average OT at 10. Which is why I want Thomas .. he’s probably the safest plug and play

I agree. LT as becoming less and less important. Defenses move players around. The QB position is changing.

Face it, and this is just a general impression, I have no researched data, but Joe T, as good as it gets at the position probably experienced the fewest wins of any HOF type LT.

It shows that LT's don't win many games for you. As you said, we don't need a HOF player out there, we had that to no avail. You just need somebody decent enough to help the players who do win games.

Good is all you need on the O line. You don't need the best. You just need good. Olinemen are like brick layers. Nothing fancy. They don't get much credit when the wall they put up stands up, but get crap if it falls down.

It is what it is.

Exactly what I thought was obvious, but yes, totally. If we had to spend some of later picks or a few lower future picks, all to get these two key things realized, the I would not care too much about the balance of the draft. I say this while acknowledging that there are no guarantees, but also positing that you get as right as you can on paper and go play some ball.

We aren't in a hand-wringing state with a ton of holes to fill as we have been in years past. We need the best we can manage while taking advantage of exceptional opportunities if they show up. I think IS may be one of those.

Go, Browns. Gonna watch DraftDay again today. Maybe put it on a loop until Thursday. <G>

Stay safe, dawgs!

The pay scale at the LT position does not support your theory.

Give it time.


I knew you would say that. That is about all you say on the matter.

I think ahead. I don' think 20 years ago.

I look at numbers from today, not 20 years ago. Physics doesn't change over time. The most devastating hit a person can take is the one he can't see coming. Time doesn't change that and the NFL understands that. The most important player to your franchise is the QB. It's actually quite basic.

Its 2020 bro ... get with the program ... qb’s now have eyes in the back of there head ...

Well now it all makes sense.

A bad LT, and for that matter, a bad RT = a long day for any QB even the ones that can run. You want to run when you want to not when you have to.

J/C - If Simmons is there at 10, I think we have to take him. We've addressed one of the tackle positions with Conklin. Peters is an option - hell - I would wager Washington might take our second round pick for Williams, if we felt that there were no options in the draft that were viable.

You have to take a difference maker at #10. From what I've seen, Simmons can be that. I just don't see him being there at 10. I do see one of the top 3 OTs being there.

This is a RICH draft class. This is one it may make sense to trade down but if a bonafide stud is sitting at 10, yous gots to takes him.

Physics don't change, but our understanding of them does change. The hit you can't see coming adage is a common refrain, but I'm not sure the data backs it up. Especially with the new rules, QBs don't have to worry about getting their knees taken out. I might argue with all the protections QBs receive, we should be worrying more about the pressure a QB sees in his face as that might have more of an effect on his performance. You still can't let him get hit, but I'm not sure they hurt any more if you don't see them coming. Getting hit square in the chops while trying to step up into a throw while staring down the barrel probably is pretty high up on the list of what hurts the most. It's physics. Two things moving in opposite directions (towards each other -> <-) result in more force when they collide.

I think we take the best player on the Browns board regardless of position at #10, it's not like we can't use Simmons or a another Dlineman. The only exception I would make is if we have a LT rated very close to the highest rated player on our board, then I would take the LT.

You can say that all you like, but a QB has options if he can see a hit coming. He can move to help deflect the hit and not take a direct hit. He can give himself up as we have seen pocket QB's do in the past to avoid a hit. Scrambling QB's have the option to scramble away from oncoming hits so that it minimizes the speed of the collision.

The one's from behind, that you can't see coming give you none of those options. They come from a direction that can cause the neck and spine to bend in ways they should never do. They can catch you standing still so that the impact has increased velocity.

I still have no idea how this is even worthy of debate.

....when was the last time you had a physics class? How would standing still increase velocity?

It's about angles. Edge rushers are often looping around rather than coming on in a straight line. Any more they often avoid the QB's body and swipe for the ball.

As far as neck and spine bending in directions they shouldn't, that's true for any hit.

You want to block them all.

If you said pressure they can't see is more likely to cause turnovers, sure. Hurt more? It's scientifically unlikely. Anecdotally, perhaps.

Yup. We simply need a guy good enough to not only make it through his rookie deal, but to have us want to give him a new deal after that.

We don't need HoF-quality to get that. We need "solid NFL starter".

Let me try to explain this a little slower. If someone is running at you and you are standing still, they hit you at their full speed. If you are running away from them, your speed offsets the speed at which they hit you. If you can move to help deflect the hit it lessens the impact. This is actually pretty basic stuff.



Any way you look at it, the hit you don't see coming is the one you can't prepare for. And hitting you from behind forces the back and neck to bend in the opposite direction it should.



You don't say.



Being able to duck, scramble and deflect a direct hit verses being hit from behind where you can't see it coming isn't a matter of being anecdotal to anything.

Basic, yes. But not what you had said earlier. It might be what you meant, but it's not what you wrote.



If you get hit in the front, the ground usually hits you in the back. It's that hitting the ground that frequently causes concussions. It doesn't matter if you're ready for it or not. It's that sudden change one direction then a sudden change in the other direction that's awful for brain injuries. If you get hit in the back you might rock your neck back a bit, but it's not into a solid surface.

With the rule changes, there aren't the many of the big hits there used to be on QBs. Most DEs are taught to go for the strip now. It's harder to strip if the QB sees you coming, so those in the face, quick pressures end up the bigger hits now.



How do you measure pain? Is surprise actually pain?

It matters how hard you get hit and where, not whether you see it coming or not.

Are there instances where seeing the player coming allows you to avoid them? Yes, but that wasn't the argument you presented earlier.

Can we get off this tangent and back on topic?

Isaiah Simmons, where will he land? He might not make it past Detroit.

He could fall to us. It'll be interesting to see where he ends up on Thursday.

https://www.dawgsbynature.com/2020/4/19/...iLfDGY2IdY9yZtg

Could Isaiah Simmons drop to the Browns at number 10? Here’s how
56
There are circumstances that must fall just right

By Barry Shuck Apr 19, 2020, 9:16am EDT
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NCAA Football: College Football Playoff National Championship-Clemson vs Alabama
Matthew Emmons-USA TODAY Sports
Going into the off-season, the Browns were in need of two safeties, two offensive tackles and linebackers. These were the top priorities. Luckily for Cleveland fans, two safeties, a middle linebacker and a right tackle were signed in free agency.

Cleveland owns the 10th pick in the first-round of the draft which just happens to be rich in offensive tackle prospects in each round.

Awesome. And, and, and - there are five offensive tackles linked to being taken in the first-round of this year’s college draft: RT Jedrick Wills, Jr. of Alabama, Houston LT Josh Jones, RT Mekhi Becton of Louisville, LT/RT Andrew Thomas from Georgia and Iowa’s Tristan Wirfs, who has played both positions in college. Therefore, the Browns should be able to have their pick of two or even three of these dancing elephants and fill yet another need for years to come.

And while taking a guy to man the left tackle spot is ultra-important, the defense has quite a few holes from last year as well. The linebacker position is far from being solved. Cleveland let go veterans Adarius Thomas and Christian Kirksey and then allowed MLB Joe Schobert to sign with Jacksonville in free agency.

But, what if the Browns could get Clemson Tigers LB Isaiah Simmons without having to trade up? With your GM hat on, would you take him? The better question might be, why wouldn’t you take him?

Who is Isaiah Simmons?
Before the angle of actually drafting Simmons is revealed, some thoughts on the player himself. First off, most mock draft sites have him listed as the fourth best player in this year’s draft. This places him the third best defensive player behind a pair of Ohio State athletes: EDGE rusher Chase Young and CB Jeffrey Okudah.

College Football Playoff National Championship - Clemson v LSU
Photo by Justin Tafoya/Getty Images
To say that Simmons (6’, 4” 238 pounds) has versatility is an understatement. In his first playing year for Clemson after a redshirt freshman year, he started 14 games at strong safety and had 45 tackles, six pass defenses, three tackles for loss, one forced fumble plus a single sack.

In his sophomore year as he put on more weight, he was switched to the SAM linebacker spot and beat out senior athlete Jalen Williams. Simmons started all 15 games. His stats that year were 88 total tackles, two sacks, nine tackles for loss, one interception, three forced fumbles, six pass defenses and scored a touchdown on a pick-six. In the college football playoffs, Clemson handled Notre Dame 30-3 and then clobbered Alabama 44-16 in the National Championship Game. Simmons led the Tigers in total tackles for the two games.


At this point, Simmons had been three years removed from high school and could have applied for the NFL draft. He was projected to be drafted somewhere in the first two rounds. He had just won a National Championship, led the Tigers in tackling during the season, and was guaranteed a pretty sizable contract. Instead, he returned to Clemson in order to improve his play.

And improve he did. His junior year Simmons remained as the strongside linebacker and busted out with 104 total tackles, eight sacks, three interceptions, eight pass defenses, two forced fumbles, one fumble recovery and 16.5 tackles for loss during 15 games. Clemson again played for the National Championship against the LSU Tigers, but lost 42-25. In that game, Simmons had seven tackles, one sack, two pass defenses and two tackles for loss.

Here is what The Draft Network says of Simmons:

“Isaiah Simmons is a blue chip prospect with unparalleled versatility. His unbelievable length and athletic gifts make him a sensible fit for a number of positions, including MIKE, SAM, SS and a nickel LB in coverage. Simmons has explosive qualities and will be an asset vs. the run and pass alike. He’s a game changing player who should be coveted as a true 3-down linebacker/hybrid defender who can be the pivotal chess piece in a weekly defensive game plan.”

If you watched any amount of Clemson games, you saw that Simmons was basically all over the field at every moment.

His final year with the Tigers, Simmons was awarded the Butkus Award (for the nation’s best linebacker), First Team All-ACC, ACC Defensive Player-of-the-Year, and was voted Unanimous First Team All-American.

DraftCountdown.com has this assessment:

“The uber-athletic Simmons is an extremely unique prospect who champions would call a linebacker / defensive back hybrid while detractors might use the phrase positional ‘tweener. Regardless of the label Simmons is a rangy, versatile chess piece ideally suited for a modern defense. This past season Simmons lined up at outside and inside linebacker, safety, at cornerback both outside and in the slot and even notched 7 sacks rushing off the edge. Questions about his position at the next level make him somewhat of a difficult evaluation for scouts, but the bottom line is Simmons is a playmaker whether it’s as a linebacker, safety, cornerback or edge pass rusher.”

Simmons is one of the most energizing players in this year’s college draft, and he just happens to be a linebacker.

ACC Football Championship - Clemson v Miami
Photo by Mike Comer/Getty Images
Just how would Simmons slip to the 10th pick?
Football is a game. And with Simmons, we are going to play another game: dominoes. But instead of playing these tiles flat for points, we are doing the stand-up falling dominoes variety.

In the first-round of the NFL draft, there are lots of trades. 2017 set the record for the most trades in the draft with 37 until last year’s 40 whooping trades. The Seattle Seahawks had only four picks before draft day and ended up with 11 new players.


But this year is quite different. Coaches, scouts, the owners and GMs are not even going to be in the same room come draft day while the NFL has augmented a “virtual draft” system. That means that clubs aren’t going to have the liberty of fast communication during the actual draft and therefore it is estimated that the amount of trades this year will become an all-time low. So, for this situation and for argument-sake, we are leaving every team where it is for these reasons and also because you cannot accurately predict which teams will swap places with another.

The first overall pick is AFC North division foe Cincinnati. They will pick LSU quarterback Joe Burrow.

The second selection is owned by the Washington Redskins who will grab who many feel is the best player in the draft with Chase Young of Ohio State.

Choice number 3 are the Detroit Lions, owners of one of the worst pass defenses in the league. Last year, the Lions were dead last in this category allowing 284.4 yards a game, dead last in total yards allowed per game with 4,551 and tied for last in total interceptions (7). Detroit wants to change that and will take Ohio State cornerback Jeff Okudah with the third pick.

NCAA Football: College Football Playoff Semifinal-Cotton Bowl-Notre Dame vs Clemson
Matthew Emmons-USA TODAY Sports
Up next is Domino Number 1 - the New York Football Giants with the 4th pick
Just like the Browns and every other club that is drafting in the Top 10, the Giants have many holes to fill with quality players. Make that quality new players. Their defense was also pretty bad last year, and Simmons should be a lock right here. But, hold that thought.

New York addressed many of their defensive woes in free agency. They signed CB James Bradberry to a three-year $43.5 million contract, one of the best available linebackers in Blake Martinez to a $30.7 million three-year deal, another LB Kyler Fackrell (one-year, $4.6 million) and then franchised their own DT Leonard Williams, which will cost them $17 million.


They also signed a free agent tight end, plus tendered four of their own players. This has left them with just over $11 million remaining. And they still need an offensive tackle - or two. With this in mind, all of the Top 5 offensive tackles projected in the first-round are sitting there with the fourth pick.

The Giants have a young quarterback, a second-year running back, spent money on a young first-round tight end, and own a porous offensive line. They need help with protection of last year’s first-round pick QB Daniel Jones. They aren’t real satisfied with Nate Solder at the left tackle spot, but are shackled with his four-year $62 million deal he signed back in 2018. They are better off keeping him than being sacked with a large amount of dead money. But the right tackle position has been a revolving door for years. And the draft’s best right tackle is sitting there.

The Giants drop the first domino and select Alabama RT Jedrick Wills.

Up next are the Miami Dolphins and the Los Angeles Chargers with picks 5 and 6, respectively. They will take quarterbacks, precisely Tua Tagnovailoa of Alabama and Oregon’s Justin Herbert. The Chargers will take whichever signalcaller Miami doesn’t select.


Which brings us to Domino Number 2 - the Carolina Panthers with the 7th pick
What does Carolina need is the first question to ask.

Let’s start with some statistics. One thing for sure – numbers don’t lie. On offense they were 20th in passing yards per game and points scored, but 31st in touchdowns scored. Their defense ranked a respectable 13th in passing yards allowed per game (231.0) while their rushing defense finished 29th against the run (143.5). Ouch.

And then there are two little stats that may reveal the Panthers’ plans for the draft: Carolina was second in the most interceptions thrown (21), and more importantly - the most sacks allowed with 58.

The Panthers can’t stop the run, and they can’t block their own grandmas. However, they have been blessed with six wonderful potential draft prospects staring them in the face: offensive tackles Wirfs, Bechton, Thomas and Jones, Auburn DT Derrick Brown, and Simmons who is still on the board.

Which free agents Carolina signed may provide a clue of what direction they will follow. The Panthers signed three (yes, three) quarterbacks: Teddy Bridgewater from the New Orleans Saints, their own backup Kyle Allen, and P.J. Walker which lit up the XFL. The Panthers also inked five wide receivers in Seth Roberts (Baltimore Ravens), Pharoh Cooper (Arizona Cardinals), DeAndrew White (Panthers), Keith Kirkwood (Saints), plus the second best receiver in the free agent market in Robby Anderson (New York Jets).


Other offensive players signed were offensive guard John Miller (Bengals) and tight end Seth DeValve.

On defense, Carolina signed a defensive tackle, a defensive end, linebacker, and two safeties including one of the most coveted: Tre Boston.

The Panthers sport one of the game’s best young running backs in Christian McCaffrey. They now have a new starting QB with Bridgewater, a tight end to replace the departed Greg Olson, and five new receivers. But when the offensive line cannot sustain blocks and guys keep pouring into the pocket all game/every game, interceptions go up (2nd most ranking), average yards per reception go down (28th ranking), offensive ranking falls out (dead last #32), and that all-important statistic: sacks go way up.

And in this case, all the way up to 58 allowed in a single season.

There is a lot riding on the Panthers’ offense beginning with Bridgewater. Carolina didn’t sign all those receivers just to have constant pocket collapses. The most significant move they can make is to protect their new quarterback and continue to open holes for their prized running back. Carolina drops the next domino and selects Louisville OT Mekhi Becton.

COLLEGE FOOTBALL: SEP 07 Texas A&M at Clemson
Photo by John Byrum/Icon Sportswire via Getty Images
Which brings us to Domino Number 3 - Arizona Cardinals and the 8th pick
The Cardinals had so many needs they made a list: offensive tackle, linebacker, tight end, cornerback, wide receiver, safety, EDGE rusher, defensive tackle, offensive guard and running back.

They were very, very busy in free agency and filled most of their most pressing needs during the first week of the free agent market period. Solved the linebacker issue with Devon Kennard (Lions) and De’Vondre Campbell (Cardinals). DT Jordan Phillips was signed from the Buffalo Bills, while All-Pro wide receiver DeAndre Hopkins was obtained in a stunning trade with Houston. And Arizona placed the transition tag on running back Kenyan Drake.

On offense, the Cards were in the bottom third in passing yards per game, touchdown passes, total offensive ranking, but was 10th in the rushing game. Arizona has placed quite a bit of their future on quarterback Kyler Murray. On the offensive line, they re-signed LT D.J. Humphries before he was able to hit the free agent market, and have inked LG Max Garcia and OT Justin Murray while RG Justin Pugh and C Mason Cole are holdovers.


The offense could use an infusion of firepower. The temptation is just too much to bear, and with their pick they take WR Jerry Jeudy, the speedster from Alabama to pair with Hopkins and the last season of the aging Larry Fitzgerald who now has seen his replacement.

Which brings us to Domino Number 4 - the Jacksonville Jaguars with the 9th pick
Here it is - so close you can taste it. Jacksonville loves defense and loves to take defensive players in the first-round. They also lost several key components to their defense from last year.

And at their feet are LB Simmons, DT Brown and CB C.J. Henderson of Florida. Last season, the Jags were the 28th defense against the run and a respectable 16th against the pass. But this franchise filled their linebacker need with the signing of former Brown Joe Schobert to pair with the sensational Myles Jack. And they have a glaring need at cornerback and stopping the run.

The squeaky wheel gets the oil, and Jacksonville takes an Aaron Donald clone and selects DT Derrick Brown from Auburn to man the middle of their prized unit.

Yes, Wirfs, Thomas and to some degree Jones are still on the board, and the Browns desperately need a left tackle.

But two things to remember: 1) Simmons is the fourth-rated player in the draft and can provide game-winning abilities, and 2) this draft is very rich in all rounds with offensive tackle prospects. In Round 2 Cleveland can find TCU’s Lucas Niang, Prince Tega Wanogho of Auburn, USC’s Austin Jackson, Ezra Cleveland from Boise State and who knows, maybe Josh Jones will slip into the second-round. Round 3 will offer Terrance Steele of Texas Tech and LSU’s Saahdiq Charles. So regardless, the left tackle position can be solved without taking one in the first-round.

And consider this: the trail to win the AFC North runs through Baltimore. The Browns need a counter-answer to Ravens’ QB Lamar Jackson.

Is it really that simple to get Simmons? Of course not.

Or.....

IMHO

There are a lot of people interpreting the Browns interest in Ezra Cleveland as evidence they plan to trade down and target him later in the 1st. I think they are doing their homework on who to target in the 2nd if they can use #10 for BPA. I've no doubt that, should Simmons (or Brown for that matter) fall to #10, he's the best player on the board. If the BPA at #10 is an OT, then great, we draft the tackle. But if it's not, we will target Cleveland in the 2nd.

ISAIAH SIMMONS
LB, COLLEGE PLAYER

NBC Sports' Peter King reports the Panthers "love" Clemson LB Isaiah Simmons.

It's not a surprise. Simmons is the best linebacker (or safety) prospect in the class, and the organization is replacing Luke Kuechly following his retirement. Simmons' positional versatility and elite athleticism (4.39 forty, 39-inch vertical) make him a consensus top-10 prospect. It's possible that he goes in the top-six, but he'll be squarely in the mix at No. 7 overall when the Panthers are on the clock if he slides beyond that.

RELATED: Carolina Panthers
SOURCE: NBC Sports
Apr 20, 2020, 2:17 AM ET

From the simple viewpoint of who would I like to see play for the Browns. Not how it could happen. Not about need or BPA.

I want to see Simmons play football. He has amazing talent. He seems like a hard working bright young man.

I see this guy as a difference maker for any team.

When Christian McCaffrey was in the draft I felt the same way. I thought he would be offensive rookie of the year.

He just stands out. Doesn't take much to see that.

I can just envision Simmons being all over the field making plays. One of those guys that you have to account for on every play. Like Ed Reed.

Agreed. No other player in this draft fascinates me with his potential like Simmons. I don't think it will happen, but he's the guy I want most for the Browns.

Get Simmons and trade for Trent Williams and call it a night.

Trent Green was great in his prime but I don't know if he still has it at age 49. He would be a good veteran mentor for Baker though. I wonder what CBS would want for him.

???????

I agree. I think that is the floor for that kid.

The whole Carolina connection....just makes sense.

If your talking about immediate improvement that scenario is the quickest.

I get taking a tackle at ten because it is longer term at less money. But Williams is plug and play for a least three years. There is no learning the position.

Simmons has the type of skills that can play right away and have impact.

I believe Williams can be had for a third and something else. A player or another pick like a third in 2021.

With Simmons and Williams the rest of the draft is depth and development. Just take BPA.

IMO, I'd wager the 'skins want a draft pick this year in a Williams trade. I don't have any evidence, just a gut feeling.

I think we've hit an impasse, and that's why rumors have cooled. I don't think we need to let the 'skins have their way with us in a trade for Williams in such a tackle-rich draft, and with Peters out there.

Already posted by Grateful in the PF "Trades" thread, but I think it fits here as a possible Plan B for the Browns in the (unlikely) event that Simmons slips to 10 ...

From Josina Anderson (Twitter) ...

I’m told acquiring Trent Williams is “still on the table” for the #Browns, per source today. "Nothing is imminent or super close right now," but the Browns are keeping their thumb on the situation--meaning something still may, or may not happen w/Trent before or after the Draft.

6:23 AM - 21 Apr 2020

https://twitter.com/JosinaAnderson/status/1252588674388238341

Jason Peters is still looking for a team, right?

I think Peters would suddenly make a whole bunch of sense for us if we ended up with one of the 2nd tier tackles coming out of the draft. A guy that we feel really good about, but know that he's got stuff to work on for at least a year.

Sounds more like a smokescreen/attempt to get someone to jump up for him and add more picks to me.

If they actually like him, they're less likely to let it slip at this time of the year-I think. Or at least, they may like him, but might have other needs they prioritize more highly.

Looking at their roster, I'm guessing they look to address OG/DT.

They could still address LB with Simmons. I'm not sure he's "Temple tough" enough for Rhule, though.

Then again, the new group could be looking to make a splash. Not sure the trenches move the needle marketing-wise. Simmons would probably be a popular pick in Carolina amongst the fans.

Simmons never gets past the Panthers !

That's what I have been saying, If we want him if he is our true #1 target they will have to go to #7 ...

Don't fool yourself. He might not get past the Lions.

I like this idea too. Trent is my first option, this is my 2nd.

IMO, at this point, if we get Trent it's because we either missed out on or didn't like the LT prospects and their likelihood of ending up with us.

Or it opens up a ton more options for us in the draft.

I don't think we're trading for him unless it's a fourth round pick or later.

Agreed. I might go as high as our second 3rd rounder, but that's the max...

Browns 3rd round picks since 1999:

Sione Takitaki
Chad Thomas
Larry Ogunjobi
Carl Nassib
Shon Coleman
Cody Kessler
Duke Johnson
Xavier Cooper
Christian Kirksey
Terrance West
Leon McFadden
John Hughes
Colt McCoy
Shawn Lauvao
Travis Wilson
Charlie Frye
Chris Crocker
Melvin Fowler
James Jackson
Travis Prentice
Jajuan Dawson
Daylon McCutcheon
Marquis Smith

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/cle/draft.htm

There's 5-6 "pretty good" players in there, but seriously folks, would you really not give up any of them for a perennial All-Pro Left Tackle, even if he is 31 years old?

It’s the contract more than the pick.

Last I heard, we have $37M avail cap money. I don't think anyone is suggesting we pay Williams that much, or even half that much. His agent suggested $16M per year would probably get him signed.

https://nfltraderumors.co/agent-refutes-report-regarding-trent-williams-contract-demands/

Right. That’s too much for a player who just sat out a year and is always hurt.

LOL...Made a fool of you.

You are very quick with the edit button.

He's not "always hurt". He has had a difficult couple of years due to a malignant growth on his head, but any contract would be contingent on a physical.

I’m all for trading later round picks for veteran players. It brings certainty of talent where there is usually none when you are picking a player in the later rounds. With that said, the value for the player and the contract has to be right. Paying $16 million a year for a player that not be that into playing is a disaster.

I don't agree. Most of the time all you've lost is a Travis Wilson or Charlie Frye. And I don't care about the money. The cap keeps going up, and most contracts are garbage, security-wise, from the players' POV.

Like maybe a Doug Dieken type..

He had other injuries prior to the growth. The "time off" chart was definitely trending in a certain direction.

That said, you gotta think the time off due to his growth/holdout has done wonders for his body. I would hope that the same guy that's making these trade/contract demands while not playing is doing everything he can to stay in shape.

Simmons was being interviewed yesterday and was asked why a team should draft him. He said something like: there are 53 players on your roster and if you draft me, you will have 56.

I thought that was pretty clever and I agree that he can fill multiple positions on the team.

ISAIAH SIMMONS
LB, COLLEGE PLAYER

NFL Network's Ian Rapoport report "most teams" view Georgia's Isaiah Simmons as a safety, but that debate over his best position could cause him to fall in the draft Thursday evening.

Simmons worked out as a linebacker at the Combine, but has experience at linebacker, safety and slot corner. Rapsheet reports Simmons' evaluations are all over the map. Simmons has been rumored to go off the board as high as No. 3, but Rapsheet's words hint at an evening one plunge. Tweeners always create more uncertainty than teams are comfortable with.

SOURCE: Ian Rapoport on Twitter
Apr 23, 2020, 2:06 PM ET

Georgia? Issiah Wilson goes to Georgia. Doubt he'll be a safety though. He'd have to lose like 100 pounds and get faster

Good eye.

If we take Simmons he will be our MIKE... Sideline to Sideline snuffing out everything and on passing downs anything and everything. Covering the TE which we had problems last year as well as blitzing...or mirroring Lamar type QBs which has always burnt us

jmho

Doesn't a Mike have to be able to get off blockers? I was thinking he needed to be a free-roaming Will

Yes I would draft him. Move him around on D. He can play LB and rush the QB or he can be an extra DB and drop into coverage. He is really versatile.

You don't say.