So, we know Scho was not resigned and we have a HUGE hold at ILB. (at this exact moment)

The 3 questions...

1. what would it take to trade up for Chase?
2. Would Berry and co do something like that?
3. Should we trade up for Young?

Young should also be a lock Ray Lewis type LB for the next 10-15 years (barring injuries and bad coaching)

1. A LOT .. probably this year’s 2nd and next year’s 1st
2. I don’t think so ... I think we value picks too much, especially when an OT will be there
3. I would not do it. Of course having him would be awesome, but given the cost I’d still be cautious

Would love to have him but would be a huge cost..

Um, Chase Young is not a linebacker. . .

Personally, I think he could easily go into an LB role if he lost 5-10 lbs. I think he is definitely a tweener. (in my book) I think he has all of the speed and football smarts for it.

If he stayed at DE, I don't think it would be worth it. Texas tried that and it backfired with Watt/Clowney.

Rather have Simmons.

But stay put and finish the Oline with Thomas.

3-4 OLB? Maybe. Schobert replacement? I don't see it.



Keep that huge dude attacking and affecting things in the backfield. Why drop him into space?

Young and Simmons are both studs but if we were to trade up and both were available I would have problem taking Chase Young over Isaiah Simmons ... I can't Imagine the pressure on opposing QB's with Garrett and Young ...

is that what you meant?

???

It means what it says Young and Garrett will be great together but Simmons is also great ..

yes

Sorry Marc, when you made the original post, you wrote "have problem taking Chase Young over Isaiah Simmon." That makes more sense if you said "have no problem". So I inserted the word no in your quote, in brackets, and asked if that is what you meant. I wasn't trying to be snarky, just asking for clarification.

If the Browns has pick #2 then I would be advocating for the Browns to select Chase Young because he is the top talent on the board. The Browns do not have the 2nd pick and would have to give up way too much capital to get up tp the 2nd pick to draft Young. So, they need to focus the best player available at #10.

If we had to trade up to the 2 spot... no.

If he miraculously fell to the 5-10.. I think it's at least worth a call for the asking price.

I personally think the more realistic think to do is to keep an eye on Simmons and where he might go.

j/c...

1. Chase would be a DE in our defense.
2. We would have to give up 2 years of drafts to move up to the #2 spot where probably we would have to go to get him.

Too much and I don't think the analytics will justify it nor do I thin Berry will want to give up that much he'd rather get pieces to the puzzle the next two years then put all the eggs in one basket. Besides he will probably hit the Steeler QB in the head with his helmet after being called a N....and get punched in the nutz...Steelers were rewarded for doing so we can only ASSume they will do it again.

I don't think common sense would justify it.

So what are you saying??? We aren't going to give up 2 years of drafts for ONE PLAYER??? lol

I mean it would be a dream of "WHAT IFS" teaming Young up with Garrett but we can still stud out as we got 3 amazing DLmen right now in Garrett, Richardson and Larry O!! Simply amazing for a DL in a 4-3 Defense. That next DE and who knows what Vernon will look like all healed up? We need another to keep them fresh, personally I DO NOT LIKE Chad Thomas, on paper he is ok, on the field ehhh Not for me. Another can be gotten.

If we get Simmons do we put him opposite of Garrett, 238 ain't big enough but in passing situations if we play with the lead a lot cause of a stud O he would get passing downs pinning his ears back.

Do we go for one with our 2nd round pick.
Yetur Gross-Matos
Alton Robinson
James Smith-Williams

One of those 3 will be there for sure and would work well teaming up with Vernon for that DE

jmho

The more I think about it, the more I would MUCH rather go hard for Clowney on a front-loaded three year deal, then let the Draft come to us and not try to move up in Round 1.

My guess is that a bunch of teams have offered him that and that’s why he’s still unsigned.

I don't really have an issue with trading up per say. I mean if it just so happens to be one or two spots up for someone we have highly touted who has fallen. But that price tag wouldn't cost mortgaging our future in order to do.

Actually, he was wanting more and since he didn't get the super big deal he was seeking on Day 1, reports were that he was thinking about switching up to seeking a shorter deal that would get him to free agency again in just a few years.

All we gotta do is come in at around $20M/year and make a fat chunk of it guaranteed.

I'd prefer to keep Vernon.

I don't think it would be wise to trade future assets to move all the way up to number 2 for Young and I don't think Clowney is worth the kind of money he is asking.

Just my opinions...

My guess is that Clowney is off the board pretty soon. Probably to the Titans.

if you can get him for 2 number 1s and 2 number 2s.

Agreed. Keep Vernon. Hope he has a good year. Let his contract expire, transfer that money to Myles Garrett. Get a decent Comp pick


Try to find a DE this year in the draft after round 1



And don't trade a lot of assets to move up for Chase Young............

I would keep Vernon, too.
And add Clowney.

For one, Vernon is only here for one more year unless we do a new deal.
Two, it gives us one helluva rotation, but also the option of putting all three out there at once on big-pressure downs.
Lastly, if one gets dinged up for a bit, we still have two high-end DE's out there.

After this year, Vernon (and that extra salary) is likely gone, and then we'd still have Clowney opposite Myles.

It's going to take a 1st round pick to move from 10 to 2, so as much as I would like to say yes, I probably wouldn't.

Chase is going to be a monster like the Bosa brothers for almost certain.

so, would you trade OBJ for Chase Young?

In a heartbeat...

I would.

I don't know, but I would trade Baker for Chase Young. In a heartbeat.

Honestly, I would.

J/c

I’d trade OBJ for Young as well ... Baker would be a tougher call for me

New regime, honestly this is Bakers last year as a question mark. He either swims or sinks, either we will have our guy or we will be looking at the draft again.

Time will tell, but I think I agree.

I love Baker but I agree this is his prove it year to a FO that did not draft him ...

New offense & New coach. Probably no OTA's & i think we get extra practices BECAUSE we have a new coach. Who knows about training camp at this point (maybe they'll find a way to test them all and keep the training facility in Berea isolated?)


I'm not sure it's quite fair to be "sink or swim" for Baker here.


Either way, i'm sold on the guy. I'm sick of the QB carousel. This guy plays, rarely is injured (last time was freshman year of college), started three more seasons after that i believe, never missing a game. Then two with us.


He's the best and most consistent we've had in quite awhile.


I see absolutely no reason to move on from him. I'm rolling with number 6, ride or die baby.


As for OBJ, yes, of course i'd trade him for Chase Young. I imagine Andrew Berry would too. But i don't think whoever has the number 2 pick is gonna go for that

Very quickly.

I would think that Baker Mayfield has more trade value than OBJ. It's an interesting question.

I can't believe there's folks that would consider trading Baker for Chase Young.


Sorry Vers, there's many football takes we agree on. That one. Heck no.

Baker's the most important player on this team. He has the biggest impact. And we've seen how hard it is to get a halfway decent QB.

No way am i trading Baker for just about anyone. Wouldn't trade him for Joe Burrow either. Last season was a mess all-around. But i'm still sold, and i find it stunning that other folks aren't.


I haven't been around the board that much recently (until lately), maybe i missed something

If Baker Mayfield were available for trade what would we get in return?

If OBJ were available for trade what would we get in return?

I'd bet the returns would be similar. A first round pick along with some later round picks.

Mayfield was terrible last season.

Truth be told, I thought the original question of trading OBJ for Young was silly. I added to the silliness.

Moving on...

If so, Baker is undervalued by the rest of the league.

Sell all the stock of his you want, i'll buy it.


I've been convinced since his rookie year. Last year was just a speed bump. Probably the worst organized offense we've ever had. I am not putting all that on Baker

Evidence can usually be used as factual data is changing people's opinions. In some cases not so much.

I'm not sure how anyone who watched the "2019 Baker" wouldn't say there are big questions left to be answered. Sure the potential is certainly there. But we've seen how well that has played out many times over the years.

The jury is most certainly out on Baker. If we see more of 2019 Baker, those questions will only grow. If we see more of 2018 Baker more of those questions will be addressed.

Would you trade him for Chase Young?

No. After watching him for two seasons, one of those seasons looked very promising. Last year was a major cluster on many levels. I would have to be sold on the fact he is not the answer at QB to risk letting go of that potential at this juncture. But then on the other hand, would anyone give up Chase Young if they knew Baker wasn't the answer?

I guess if I broke it down, by the time I would give up on Baker everyone would know that he isn't worth giving up Chase Young for.

I think the discussion of trading Baker or OBJ for Chase Young is crazy.

How many times have teams in the history of the NFL draft traded a veteran player to another team for the 2nd pick in the NFL draft?

Come on...

I think it's absurd to consider depleting any area we are strong in to bolster a position we are weak in. That's not building a team.

I see your point.

Although, we did this last year with Peppers (better than Burnett) & Zeitler (a top quality RG). We did get OBJ and Vernon. Stronger at DE & WR yet weaker at guard and safety.


Of course, the idea is, it's easier to get a RG than a DE. I'd agree with that one. Same with strong safety vs a top WR that opponents have to account for in their defensive gameplan.

Afterall, how many RG's are drafted in the top 10? (i guess the guy on the Colts). Safety and WR is a lesser battle because the safety position seems to have become higher and higher valued lately (in the draft)

I don't think Peppers was that much of a loss. I mean the conversation revolves around Baker and OBJ. I don't think either of your examples rise to anything close to that.

Uh oh. THAT might come back around in another thread.

I'm not worried about it. All people can bring up are marginal players.

Sorry, not following. If you leverage a position of strength to bolster a position of weakness, why wouldn't that be considered building a team? How else are you going to bolster the position of weakness?

Doesn't mean it always works out. Take OBJ, for example. But this is certainly an avenue to explore when you are trying to build a more well rounded team.

The Browns have good WRs. Considering this is a WR rich draft and we have 4 picks in the top 100 or so, I think it would be an interesting discussion if we could trade OBJ for the #2 overall pick. Landry, Njoku, re-sign Higgins, Hooper, Hunt, Chubb, draft WR … and also put a bookend to Garrett.

Sign me up for that any day of the week and twice on Sunday. Baker doesn't need OBJ to play better.

OBJ was injured the entire season so that isn't an example.

I learned my lesson about "drafting WR's" before. I think Detroit Lions fans did as well.

Good drafts and good FA signings are how you build a team. I guess some people never learn.

Neither of these would be reasons for not having a discussion about trading OBJ for #2 overall pick.



So no team that makes trades are trying to build a team? Maybe teams that make trades are trying to unbuild a team.

There are trade and there are stupid trades. Just like everyone who buys a car doesn't get a good deal.

I get that a lot of folks hate OBJ, but I will try again...

How many times in NFL history has a team w/the second overall pick traded that pick for a veteran player?

This conversation is like a sci-fi or fantasy novel.

Only while your hard head decides to participate in it bro ....

I must be slow, but I don't get what you are saying???

I asked how many times have teams traded the second overall pick for a veteran player?

I am guessing that it just doesn't happen. Hell.....let's expand it to the top five picks in the draft. How many teams have traded a top five pick for a veteran player? I bet it's not many and I can't recall any in recent years.

It sure seemed that way when Mangenius traded our pick to the Jets (they got Mark Sanchise that year and we got Alex Mack. I think we got a 2nd as well or something, and then guys like Kenyon Coleman and Abram Elam)

Huh?

Mangini's first year. We traded out of pick number 5 and got a ton of veterans (as well as a couple picks).

That's my best example for the scenario you say never happens to a top 5 pick

I guess you proved my point. The trade w/the Redskins is NOT going to happen.

lol, no. It won't happen. Especially with the way a #2 pick's salary gets slotted vs the way it used to. Those picks are very valuable for just that reason. Rookie contracts used to be a huge risk, now, they're a huge value

Very true.

That has been my point the entire time. It was a dumb question/discussion because it will never happen.

Your hate for Baker is at least confirmed.

Of the question was for OBJ and yes I would trade him for Chase in a blink of an eye.

To give away a Franchise QB is so so bad after all the struggles we had since 1999 without one. With Chase we would have a much stronger Defense and all that would tell me is that we will NEVER be in position to get a Franchise QB as we will be in the middle of the pack - possibly getting into the playoffs but never going far as teams without a QB rarely do.

The rules have changed so that the 2000 Ravens scenario will not be achieved again.

jmho

You're probably right, but the discussion had evolved to ways to improve a team. I thought your verZa made a silly comment.

Are you in a name-calling mode today?

Oh come on. I thought that was light-hearted. The term is funny.

Plus, if some claimed I had a group of Rishenzas following me around, I'd be flattered. Although Rishenza sounds like another infectious disease. Need to rethink that name.

If Clem had followers they could be the Clemenzas ... "leave the canoli, take the cello."

Clemenzas has a nice ring to it.

It does. Specifically one that hits the digestive tract.

Adding the title to my sig line. I'm a Clemenza.

That sounds like an STD.

I'm offering a 25 percent discount on versZa's memberships due to the hardships of COVID-19.

We want to let all of our members know that we have your best interests at heart and are going to make every accommodation we can to ensure your safety during these trying times. Please practice social distancing while you are making your payment to versZa.com.

http://www.versza.com/index.php

They literally sell forks that scoop up poop.

LOL...........I have a good joke about that, but I would get suspended.

Our mental health patients are in good hands.

Probably better hands than your students were.

Nah..........you're a bully. You love making fun of others. You get off on it. That isn't the guy I would want treating a mentally ill person.

But again, if you want to ignore me.....I'll ignore you. You wanna dance...........the call is yours.

You calling someone else a bully is hilarious.

I get you........and I am bringing this back up because jfan was the dude who started the versZa thing. He wasn't doing it w/good humor. He started it to make fun of me and anyone who agrees w/me.

The dude is in the mental health field and spends his free time making fun of others.

That's not funny.

The only people I make fun of are crap starters like you and that 2020 dude. I got a few chuckles from what I said about both.

What a guy.

Yet, you ignore folks who call others liars and who dedicate almost every single post they make to discrediting others. Thee were dudes calling me a liar on multiple posts. I then posted links. They ignore them and proceed to call me a liar again.

You ignore all that and continue to berate me. Up yours, medical health professional.

Once again................I will ask you...........will you agree to not talk about me if I agree to not talk about you? We don't like one another. This crap clogs the board. I am more than willing to let it go. Are you?

As some great teacher once said....I'll post WTH I want.

That is your right. It is also my right.

I am asking for a truce and I am assuming you are refusing that truce?

But yeah, I am the bully.

I hear you. Once again, you take the high road.

Wait. Did I respond to you first or did you respond to me first?

Dude.......one more time.......we don't like one another and that is fine. How about we ignore one another so the board doesn't get clogged down by our BS?

See.........I have no problem w/that. You apparently do. So do others. I think that is revealing. Shout down the opposition!

You could start.

Amazing.

And true. Thank you.

You did with the mental health crack.

Wait............you didn't talk about me before that?

And one more time, jfan......................I will gladly never talk to you again. I even tried to politely ask you this in a PM, but please leave my name out of your mouth?

I am good w/us ignoring one another. Are you? Or do you feel some deep indebted need to trash my character?

Nope. Do your research, teach.

Can I say verZa?

So ignore him. Problem solved. Period. Unless you think you have to have the last word on every thing.


You hate him? Ignore him.

This is stupid and I apologize to everyone who just wants to talk about football.

In my defense, I will say that it really, really gets old reading insult after insult on thread after thread for simply voicing my opinion.

I try to ignore those dudes, but somehow, I get sucked in. Especially after some beverages. I apologize for my participation in these stupid arguments, but I want you all to consider how you would react if you were faced w/at least a dozen insults/lies directed your way each and every freaking day.

Good day.

I'm having a gin and tonic in your honor right now!

Ah, based on your past, I wondered if you hadn't been drinking tonight. No harm, no foul. I've thought about popping some tops myself.

Thanks for being a compassionate human being.

In the end, we will all be judged by our acts. The cool part is that we get to choose how we act.

You're welcome, And, you're correct. Make a choice.

Given the fact we could get young and create 15 million in cap space.

Also next year maybe Dupree and or 1 of the Baltimore linebackers
would come available this would create a super bowl level defense in 2 drafts with the young trade.

Interesting ....

Basically you have to weigh your options.

You would have Chase and lose this years 2 and next years 1 at LEAST

or you can stay put and have Simmons/Becton/Wirfs at 10, and then have this years 2nd and next years 1.

Is Chase THAT much better than Simmons/Becton/Wirfs, that he is worth not having 2-3 other players that could start?

Frankly, I dont think so. IMO, you only trade up that high for a QB.

young with Myles for 5 years plus sign another pass rusher next
year talking about a defense that would kill all your playoff
advisory qbs and running backs.

Sign Clowney, Draft Simmons.... you are every bit as good as you would be with Young, more experienced, and you haven't lost any other draft picks.... and there is still plenty of ammo to get a LT.


Chase Young is a tempting target, but it just is not worth what Washington would demand to trade up to #2. It simply isn't.

Even *IF* he is a better player than Clowney, especially right out of hte gate (very doubtful), at that level it is a matter of diminishing returns.

He isn't a guy you sell your draft for unless he is the LAST piece you need and there aren't other options available. In our case, we still need quite a few other pieces and there are free agent pieces available.

J/c

If we could get Simmons, sign Clowney, and sign Peters/Williams ... that’s probably the fastest way to best results

To me, trading up to #2 would not be wise, considering what we’d have to give up.

I agree with the last 2 posters. Trading up to #2 would be too costly. If we get Simmons and Peters/Williams That would go a long way to solving our remaining weak areas.

I like DE's as much as the next guy, but trading into the top two is reserved for franchise QB's.

It would cost the 1st and 2nd this year and next year's 1st. That's beyond even flat out signing someone on a franchise tag straight up.

There's a reason that does not happen anymore and the "tag and trade" has been the norm for years.

Agreed. And DE is not a position of desperate need.

j/c

I don't think Chase Young is going to be all that he's being hyped-up to be. He disappeared in way too many games - against mediocre competition - for me to be comfortable trading up to go after a guy like that. JMO

You and I are in lock step on this.

Something tells me that Simmons position wouldn't rank very high on the analytics board. I wouldn't be surprised if he were there at 10 if we passed and drafted someone else.

Thomas is the only one I'd consider over Simmons at 10 if they are both there. With both there, we'll probably trade down. LOL

The Giants last two first round picks (Saquon Barkley and Daniel Jones) leaked pretty early on. Lots of people have Simmons going to the Giants. I'm not saying, I'm just saying.

With that said, I'd like to sign Clowney and get a veteran left tackle.

I'd also be shocked if "analytics" didn't like Simmons. He performed in well at a big time college and his combine numbers were insane. That sounds like someone the analytics would love.

The only way I think the front office might not like him is if they consider him strictly an off ball linebacker.

Simmons should never be viewed at just one position. This guy can do it all. Watch him on this play as a deep safety against Ohio State in the playoffs. The read, recognition, and range were incredible.

I don't view him that way at all. I am just saying a team may not value him as much if they view him as exclusively an off ball linebacker.

(That play you posted above was one of the easier plays a deep safety can make. The QB stared down the receiver the entire time.)

I should say that I don't think signing is plausible/likely. It's a pipe dream at this point.

Not even sure where your head is at? I posted the play not due to its degree of difficulty, but instead to show that this guy can play all over the field. He is NOT a one-position player by any stretch of the imagination. Any FO who thinks he is would be clueless.

I will say this though.........I've been watching some of his tape and he does struggle to get off blocks at the LOS. He is not the most physical guy.

If I were coaching him, I would create a new position for him. I would move him all over the field to take advantage of his unique gifts. Lining him up at Will play after play would be ignorant.

I think there has been a miscommunication. I agree with everything you said about Simmons the player. I think there are teams that will misuse him. Teams should just watch how the Chargers use Derwin James and replicate it.

Okay. I'm sorry. I misunderstood.

j/c...

the kid is 6'4" does he have the build to sustain adding 20 lbs over the next 2-3 years and be close to 260 with that 4.4 speed to play that DE not LB opposite of Garret?

also I see him as a Will LB and then on passing downs get as a DE or better yet stay in 2 point and move around on passing downs becoming the 5th pass rusher or at the snap drop back into coverage??? In the NFL Speed Kills and the kid has it.

I still prefer a LT for this team to improve.

jmho

I'd like to see the Browns offer this years first (#10), next years first, and this years fifth to the Skins for the #2 pick and Williams. They would be loaded for bear and we take Chase at #2 to gain two stud starters... And that's the best offer they'll get for Williams.

That is not nearly enough to move from ten to two.

So find more. Give them the third instead. You know the chart, you tell me what it would take. And don't forget your trading partners are the Skins.

Why is acquiring Chase Young so important? He's a talented DE to be sure, but it's not like he's a generational player. There was Nick Bosa last year, Bradley Chubb the year before that, Garrett the year before that, Joey Bosa the year before that, and Dante Fowler the year before that. Truly talented edge rushers seem to be an annual thing. Trading all or most of your assets into 1 player is a waste of assets.

It would be great to have Young, but we're not in a position to acquire him, so we find another way to improve the team without putting all our eggs in one basket.

I wonder.... is some of the is cuz he’s a Buckeye..... ?

Baker Mayfield wondered the same about the animosity in 2018. And still today, I suppose.

I'm sure to a degree, but Chase Young is a really good player.

That said, I would not trade up to #2 for him. I would much rather trade up a few spots for Simmons.

I think people use the Ohio State thing to further their dumb-ass agendas. I don't think lamp is like that, but that idiocy has been repeated so many times on here that others actually believe it.

It was the go-to defense for when some of us criticized Leon. Now, some are using it to defend Baker due to the flag-planting thing. Just pure agenda BS from those who can't debate w/intelligence.

OK, I need a refresher.....who is Leon?

I remember Leon Wagner from middle 60's Indians, baseball. Dumb as a stump Leon Spinks, the boxer.

Leon was a nickname I gave to Braylon Edwards due to how selfish he was. Here is a commercial about Leon. It's funny and fit perfectly.

I forgot about the Leon commercials.

Me too.

I never forget them. They are too classic.

Maybe... but dude was better than the bosas in college.... he has potential to be a hall of famer... but would cost a ton to move up.... no way we have a shot at him