Key Picks: Jedrick Wills (OT, Alabama), Grant Delpit (S, LSU), Jordan Elliott (DT, Missouri)
Analysis: Wills and top free agent Jack Conklin as offensive line bookends will improve Baker Mayfield. Second-rounder Delpit was a top-10 talent and is a steal if he cuts down missed tackles.
Mike Renner @PFF_Mike · 1h Finished up the @PFF draft grades. The 4 teams that earned A+ drafts:
Cowboys Broncos Browns Cardinals
I'm a bit tougher on the draft than these guys are. I'm still annoyed we traded back and got NO's 3rd next year.. that going to amount to a 4th. It was a needless move IMO.
I'm thinking borderline A- to a strong B+
I'm thinking life got much better for Bake. Getting the *ichigan guy was a great move. The first 2 pick are solid. We'll see about the TE.
After Day 2, I was feeling somewhat underwhelmed. On an emotional scale of 0-10, I was a '4'. After Day 3 (and further research/reflection), I was trending upwards and settled at a '7'. IMO, this draft (as an entirety) was more about quantity rather than pure quality...
No grades for me ... I’ll just say I’m happy with a semblance of a plan (and maneuvered a bit to garner future assets) ... we addressed some weaknesses and obviously drafted to fit our offensive schemes
So many promising looking drafts over the years flopped that I simply can't call the quality of the draft until I see the players play for a season or two.
AFC NORTH CINCINNATI BENGALS Round 1 (1): QB Joe Burrow, LSU Round 2 (33): WR Tee Higgins, Clemson Round 3 (65): LB Logan Wilson, Wyoming Round 4 (107): LB Akeem Davis-Gaither, App State Round 5 (147): Edge Khalid Kareem, Notre Dame Round 6 (180): T Hakeem Adenji, Kansas Round 7 (215): LB Markus Bailey, Purdue
Day 1: Joe Burrow was an easy pick for the Bengals with the first overall selection. He was the best prospect in the class, coming in at first on the PFF Big Board, and he is coming off the best season at quarterback that we’ve seen since we started grading college games in 2014. His 94.1 passing grade in 2019 was over three points higher than any other qualifying SEC quarterback over these past six years, driven by outstanding accuracy to all levels of the field.
“He demolished college football in a way we’ve never seen before. Burrow is easily the most accurate quarterback we’ve ever scouted and looks NFL ready in every regard.” — PFF’s lead draft analyst Mike Renner
Day 2: There were all kinds of options available to Cincinnati at the top of the second round, and Tee Higgins at that selection makes a lot of sense, both as A.J. Green insurance and a piece that can add to the offense alongside him and Tyler Boyd. He has a monstrous catch radius, and made plenty of plays downfield. His 15 receptions of 20 or more yards downfield last season were the most in the class among Power 5 wide receivers. He also has more ability after the catch than you would expect for someone his size, with 10 or more broken tackles in each of the past two seasons.
We were lower on Logan Wilson than many, as he came in at 110th on our board, but the filling of a need is clear here. He showed at the Combine that he was athletic enough to be a three-down linebacker in the NFL, but the concern is how his game will translate as a coverage defender in the NFL. He earned grades above 80.0 in coverage in both 2018 and 2019, but he wasn’t asked to do much at Wyoming, particularly in the way of man coverage. The fact that Cincinnati has still yet to address the offensive line was surprising through two days.
Day 3: The two off-ball linebackers Cincinnati targeted on Day 3 are good athletes with injury concerns, but both could develop into formidable contributors for the team.
Davis-Gaither got the starting nod in the overhang role for App State back in 2018 in his redshirt junior season. He put on a show that year, earning an 83.6 run-defense grade and a 75.9 coverage grade while generating seven pass breakups. He added to his bag of tricks when he returned for his senior year and the coaching staff decided to deploy him as a blitz weapon. He rushed the passer 190 times this past season, registering 25 pressures and an 82.2 pass-rushing grade in the process. That high pass-rushing grade means those pressures were no fluke. Davis-Gaither was beating offensive tackles to rack up those bad boys, oftentimes in impressive fashion. He also built upon his excellent run-defense grade to earn an 87.1 this past season. All that adds up to one of the most well-rounded linebackers in college football.
With multiple ACL injuries over his career, Bailey's draft stock is in the hands of doctors now. He's one of the most productive and versatile linebackers in the class when healthy, though. He ranked inside the top-50 among qualifying off-ball linebackers in PFF grade in 2017 and 2018.
Draft Grade: A
CLEVELAND BROWNS Round 1 (10): T Jedrick Wills, Alabama Round 2 (44): S Grant Delpit, LSU Round 3 (88): DI Jordan Elliott, Missouri Round 3 (97): LB Jacob Phillips, LSU Round 4 (115): TE Harrison Brant, FAU Round 5 (160): IOL Nick Harris, Washington Round 6 (187): WR Donovan Peoples-Jones, Michigan
Day 1: There were some concerns that there may be a run of tackles prior to the Browns’ selection, but they were left with their pick of the top options sans Andrew Thomas. Wills came in as PFF’s OT3 — and the 11th player overall on PFF’s Big Board — and he was the top tackle on a lot of boards out there, drawing a player comp to Lane Johnson in the PFF Draft Guide. He has special explosion and agility for someone that large and should be able to immediately make an impact in the run game after earning a 90.5 run-blocking grade with the Crimson Tide in 2019.
“His ability to crush a double team then take a linebacker for a ride is special for a college tackle prospect.” PFF’s lead draft analyst Mike Renner
Day 2: The Browns were able to pick up not one, not two, but three top-25 players on the PFF Big Board. Two of those players came at selections 44 and 88, which is a testament to the value Cleveland was able to get.
Delpit fell down boards largely due to his concerns as a tackler, but what he is able to do in coverage is special. He has tremendous instincts and ability to read and break on routes, he has smooth movement skills on the back end of a defense and he has the kind of length that can give bigger wide receivers or tight ends problems in the slot. That playmaking ability is apparent when flipping on the tape from his 2018 season when he recorded five interceptions and seven pass breakups.
Elliott was an even bigger steal in the third round. He has a solid combination of size and athleticism, and from a production standpoint, you can argue that no interior defender in this class has been better. Elliott has the highest overall grade of any interior defender in the class over the last two seasons. He is coming off a 2019 campaign in which he earned grades of 90.0 or higher as both a run defender and pass-rusher. Getting that kind of player — the 23rd-ranked player on the PFF Big Board — at No. 88 is tremendous value.
“He has all the makings of a player who can develop into a versatile starter with plenty of upside in the NFL.” – PFF senior writer Ben Linsey
As for Jacob Phillips, this looks like more of a reach than the other selections for the Browns, with guys like Troy Dye and Akeem Davis-Gaither still on the board at linebacker. From an athletic standpoint, Phillips has the explosion and burst that you like, but the change of direction ability isn’t quite there. That is something that’s likely to show up in coverage.
Day 3: Bryant isn't athletic enough to pass for a receiver and not strong enough to be a traditional tight end. Unless he transforms his body one way or another, he'll be in no man's land in the NFL. He did, however, improve his overall grade every year of his collegiate career and finished the pre-draft process inside the top-150 on PFF’s Big Board.
Harris ground out 2,921 snaps on the Huskies’ offensive line over the past four years. During his true freshman campaign in 2016, Harris saw four starts but was mostly rotated in at both left and right guard and earned just a 47.6 grade in pass protection. He was then moved to the starting role at right guard in 2017 and improved his pass-blocking grade to an average 63.3. He was moved to center after that, where he has thrived as a starter over the last two years. Harris improved in both pass protection and in run blocking, leading to a PFF overall grade that was among the 20 best FBS centers in both 2017 and 2018. If there’s a center you want playing out in space either in the running game or on screens, it’s Harris. The scary thing is that he’s just scratching the surface technique-wise.
The physical tools may be there from a testing perspective, but we never saw them consistently translate to separation down the football field with Peoples-Jones. Without another trump card, it's difficult to be convinced with his lack of production.
Draft Grade: A+
PITTSBURGH STEELERS Round 2 (49): WR Chase Claypool, Notre Dame Round 3 (102): EDGE Alex Highsmith, Charlotte Round 4 (124): RB Anthony McFarland Jr., Maryland Round 4 (135): IOL Kevin Dotson, Louisiana Round 6 (198): S Antoine Brooks Jr., Maryland Round 7 (232): DI Carlos Davis, Nebraska
Day 1: The Steelers were without a first-round pick in this year’s draft after trading what became the 18th overall pick in exchange for Minkah Fitzpatrick. It’s hard to think that they’re regretting that decision too much at this point. Fitzpatrick is still just 23, and he brought a much-needed dose of playmaking to the back end of Pittsburgh’s secondary. Over the first two weeks of the season, the Steelers ranked 27th in team coverage grade, but they improved to second from Weeks 3 to 17 after trading for Fitzpatrick.
Day 2: There was a lot of discussion of the Steelers going running back with their Round 2 selection, but they made the right call here by going with a player who can win downfield instead. Claypool has a freakish physical profile at 6-foot-4 and nearly 240 pounds with a 4.42-second 40-yard dash and a vertical jump over 40 inches. He also made plenty of plays down the football field at Notre Dame in 2019, pulling in 16 receptions on passes thrown 20 or more yards downfield (tied most in the class). The concern is that he won more with physicality than separation, not quite playing as fast as his 40 time would indicate, but there’s a lot of potential for him on this Steelers offense as a downfield threat.
Highsmith was listed in the PFF Draft Guide as lead draft analyst Mike Renner’s sleeper in this edge class, and the back end of Round 3 is about where he was slated to come off the board. His 91.4 pass-rushing grade this past season is excellent, but that has to be taken with a grain of salt given the level of competition he faced at Charlotte. That said, there are some nice things to work with in Highsmith. He just has a ways to go before becoming an NFL starter. Expect him to continue to develop behind T.J. Watt and Bud Dupree.
Day 3: Dotson has the strength to stick at guard in the NFL, but pass protection will be a concern from the jump. He's a late-rounder you hope can make considerable strides with NFL coaching. He earned an impressive 92.1 overall grade this past season and finished the pre-draft process ranked 160th on PFF’s Big Board.
Brooks looked far more comfortable playing in the box in 2018 than he was manning the slot last season. Yet another player whose best bet is at linebacker in the league.
Draft Grade: B-
BALTIMORE RAVENS Round 1 (28): LB Patrick Queen, LSU Round 2 (55): JK Dobbins, Ohio State Round 3 (71): DI Justin Madubuike, Texas A&M Round 3 (92): WR Devin Duvernay, Texas Round 3 (98): LB Malik Harrison, Ohio State Round 3 (106): iOL Tyre Phillips, Mississippi State Round 4 (143): IOL Ben Bredeson, Michigan Round 5 (170): DI Broderick Washington, Texas Tech Round 6 (201): WR James Proche, SMU Round 7 (219): S Geno Stone, Iowa
Day 1: This Patrick Queen selection at 28 was one of PFF’s favorite picks of the first round, especially after the Los Angeles Chargers moved up to take a linebacker at pick 23 and the Seattle Seahawks went linebacker right in front of Baltimore at 27, and both teams took players we ranked significantly lower than Queen at the position. Queen is an elite athlete who can bring positive play in coverage (81.8 coverage grade in 2019) and get sideline to sideline on that defense. He may not have the ability to take on blockers in the run game like some of the other prospects in the class, but his explosiveness and smoothness as an athlete more than makes up for that.
Day 2: After nailing the Queen selection, Dobbins at No. 55 isn’t a move that brings a whole lot of value to this offense for us. He has clearly been uber-productive at Ohio State over the course of his career, rushing for over 2,000 yards last season along with three consecutive seasons of 78.7-plus rushing grades. The issue is that they didn’t need to go running back here, especially with how much space is created by a Ravens rushing attack that is spearheaded by Lamar Jackson and what was one of the better offensive lines in the NFL just a season ago.
Then, there were all the third-round picks — four in total. Madubuike at pick 71 provides a player with a strong history of stuffing the run (run-defense grades of 87.0 or higher each of the past two years) and solid production as a pass-rusher. Duvernay brings more speed, yards-after-the-catch ability and solid hands to this wide receiving corps, but just don’t ask him to win on routes downfield. Malik Harrison is much more of a downhill player at linebacker than Queen, but his proficiency as a blitzer at Ohio State (38 pressures over last two seasons) should play well on a defense that blitzed significantly more than any other defense in 2019. Lastly, Tyre Phillips is more likely than not to kick inside to guard at the NFL level. He has issues in pass protection, but the Ravens should be able to use his strength and body-moving ability in the run game.
Day 3: Stone is one of the most underrated safeties in the draft class. His processing and quicks are a fit for every defense in the NFL. You may not want him in the box, but he can easily rotate between deep and the slot.
Considered a three-star recruit by 247Sports coming out of Pennsylvania’s New Castle High School, Geno Stone received some interest from several Power 5 schools, but Iowa was the only school to offer him. According to Iowa’s official athletic site, Stone earned first-team All-State honors as a senior defensive back. He was a three-year letterman and played defensive back, wide receiver and quarterback for New Castle. He also lettered in basketball and track in sprints and jumps.
Stone dominated in coverage throughout his career for the Hawkeyes. On his 883 coverage snaps over the last three years, Stone had put together one of the best coverage grades in the country at 91.8. He’s played a majority of his snaps deep, and that’s exactly where he belongs — he played over 600 snaps at free safety in his career and has been responsible for only 137 yards while intercepting three passes and forcing seven incompletions. While Stone has been good in the box, he’s nowhere near the same elite player when playing deep, which is evidenced by the 71.1 overall grade that he’s earned in the box over his career.
Proche's ball skills are elite enough to see the field in the NFL. He may be pigeonholed to the slot, though, as he struggled to create for himself.
Its a general rule that other team's picks always look better than ours. Doesn't make it true.
I'm very happy with our picks as they address areas of need and all seem to be credible good picks. Now just gotta prove it.
For once we have a year where people aren't hurling themselves off cliffs about the picks. That's a good thing. John Dorsey gets credit for that because he shored up our skill positions in major ways.
Browns are going to have a tough time competeing against the Ravens, and the Steelers had a good draft too.
The Bengals still don't know what they are doing,
The Balance of power in the AFC North, did not shift in the Browns favor in the last 2 days.
The Coaches, and team, are going to have to show major development and progression in their effectiveness to end with a winning record and a playoff berth.
Stefanski is going to have to pull a rabbit out of his hat!
I'd say it's probably , Baun was there on the board and you traded down, and he was taken with the pick you gave up.
Malik Harrison looked better at the same position as the player you took the linebacker out of LSU Phillips, for shaking off blocks and looking to bring more intensity on hits,
And the OT you took at 10# was matched by other teams in your division, Same with the Defensive Tackle,
So basically, it can be argued, you picked them at the better spots, but what really matters, what's on your team, didn't beat out your division rivals for improvement and they didn't start out with picks in the top 20
Cept for the Bengals, The bengals still don't know what they are doing, and nothing they did scares me, beyond Joe Burrow which was an accepted thing to begin with. So the Bengals didn't get better.
But the Ravens D did, and the Steelers did too, and the Browns filled holes, and the only problem the writers have with the Ravens is they didn't need, they didn't have need where they improved.
They ran roughshod on offense last year for most of the league, and they had 10 picks, and don't be blind, it's going to be tuff to compete against them which know how to develop their own players.
On paper, this team as it is is considered a top 10 most talented team in the NFL.
On paper this draft looked wonderful because it filled needs that we desperately needed and helped shore up depth that we desperately needed. I don't feel that this front office did anything wrong with what they drafted. There was no major move that would leave us wondering if we've stunted ourself in the future. There was no overreach on some player that we hope turns out. They even looked toward the future and picked up extra pics.
This is the first time in a long time that I can look at this team and go... there's no reason why this team shouldn't make the playoffs with the talent that this team has... on paper.
I think we can solidly say that it's up to Berry and Stefanski to make this team run at its highest level.
The team quit last year. I want to see this team play a whole 16 games this year (should things go back to normal)
Key Picks: Jedrick Wills (OT, Alabama), Grant Delpit (S, LSU), Jordan Elliott (DT, Missouri)
Analysis: Wills and top free agent Jack Conklin as offensive line bookends will improve Baker Mayfield. Second-rounder Delpit was a top-10 talent and is a steal if he cuts down missed tackles.
Mike Renner @PFF_Mike · 1h Finished up the @PFF draft grades. The 4 teams that earned A+ drafts:
Cowboys Broncos Browns Cardinals
I'm a bit tougher on the draft than these guys are. I'm still annoyed we traded back and got NO's 3rd next year.. that going to amount to a 4th. It was a needless move IMO.
I'm thinking borderline A- to a strong B+
I'm thinking life got much better for Bake. Getting the *ichigan guy was a great move. The first 2 pick are solid. We'll see about the TE.
None the less, it is still a 3rd rounder. You can get good players there. Plus, those two 3rd rounders can turn in to another 2nd round pick or another 1st if you want to move up for another 1st rounder.
I like having added ammo heading in to the next draft. It gives you added options of trading up or trading down.
Face it, that is the strategy. Embrace it. We are going to do that most years.
Come on man. We agree on many things, that just isn't credible.
If you had said C or C+ , I might have asked you why you thought is that low and listened.
An F?? No way. Even if Wills is a bit short for LT, if he can't make it there, he is going to be a good RT or a really good guard. That does have value even if that wasn't what you were drafting for. The guy is a good player. Delpit, a guy who played well at the top of the chain. Some of the middle round guys I don't know much about. That 6th round receiver, he is a steal. He is a good player.
He will make us proud, even if he is a Michigan guy and a Big 10 guy. If I was in charge, pretty much just draft SEC guys, but I am not the smartest egg in the carton so cool, he was a good pick. Excellent pick for the 6th round.
It wasn't a F. We were a B at minimum. Probably in the A range.
All I know is this and I'm trying to be realistic as we are now out of our Expansion mode and will be more and more competitive.
This is what I know. Our two biggest holes going into this draft was Left Tackle and Safety. We got two of the best for their positions. The first and second rounds are where your 1st year IMPACT picks are. The teams that hit it there become the most productive. The rest of the rounds its a place to take prospects that can work hard to become contributors.
We took the bull by the horns and took care of two very important Needs of the team!
Jordan Elliot will get the opportunity to put in quality reps while giving our starters a rest, we have 5 solid DTs and some pretty good top end talent. Richardson is one of the best!
We got a LB who can contribute to special teams while he gets acclimated to the NFL. He has some excellent features and played on the best college team of 2019. I know he wasn't OSU but the kid can play football! Lets see what he does with his opportunity. He has excellent LENGTH and good explosion. I think he is VERY UNDERRATED as a pass defender. That will be the key for us and his production.
The next 3 picks in rounds 4, 5 and 6 were by far quality BPA's Hunter Bryant a top 100 player with some good size and speed but I think he was over looked because of his height (6'2"). But the kid can play FOOTBALL which is key! He has those big hands and he reminds me of Hernandez the Murderer, but he plays a lot like him.
Nick Harris...over achiever, all he does is get better again the amateur scouts didn't like his HEIGHT...For center who cares about that meaningless spec. He has good lateral speed for our system and hopefully we won't need to start for quite several seasons. But he is smart and all the reports on him is that he will work the HARDEST!
6th round DPJ...Has a lot of DJ metcalf in him lets see what he does with his extraordinary specs! What else can you ask for in a 6th round pick. Right now maybe some red zone reps but its what he can do on our special teams in 2020.
EO, I loved everything you said, it keeps me from having to type it all out. 1 thing , we drafted Harrison Bryant, TE, FAU, not Hunter from Wash. Our guy is 6'5 the guy you mentioned is the 6'2 guy. Sorry to point that out , but our guy is better. Go Browns
That's why teams like Seattle always trade during the draft, it's the more swings of the bat theory. Each draft is usually loaded at certain positions, this year it appeared to be at WR. Grabbing a stud in the later rounds due to the sheer numbers is huge for the salary cap as you pointed out.
It looks like on paper the Browns got some players that can make Plays Right away and contribute. But like anything else its a wait and see issue
So many years every Browns draft got overhyped and what happens, 4 -12 seasons. Intresting how many SEC players were drafted. But it seems like coach and GM were on same page for once
Every year I feel however I feel after the draft but 2-3 years later I look back and realize the same thing. 50-75% of the guys will be gone or lower level rotation guys and if you get 3 solid starters you did great. This is true for every team in the league. I think, to my unpolished eye, we have potential for 4 eventual starters out of our haul, which probably means 2, but a lot will depend on coaching, team stability, injuries etc. Two solid starters and a couple of rotation guys three years from now is not a bad draft considering Browns draft history. If we do better than that, it’s an unequivocally great draft. Any draft that produces a single probowler or position group lynchpin is a great draft regardless. I don’t see any potential probowlers but who knows. Again, this is true for any team in the league IMO.
Also, there will have been lots of chatter about mid-level guys and people will be upset or happy about us drafting them or not but the vast majority of the time they’re pretty forgettable in 3 years. Not always, but most of the time. The same is not true for 1st rounders as far as I can tell but strongly held opinions either way about players in rounds 3 on often look foolish a few years later.
Grades are silly right after the draft, we all know that. There’s zero point. It’s like trying to predict the weather on this day in 3 years. One thing I will say is that’s it pretty obvious to me that the team is using a lot of the same data analysis techniques and emphasis as PFF so of course we grade highly with them. Whether that translates to field, we’ll see.
Funny every year I hear all the GM's of every team say we draft BPA.
Then the draft happens and it seems to a large degree that all the picks just happen to address what was listed as needs. Then the media grades the draft by addressing needs.
In the Browns case it appears that to a degree need intersected BPA. At least with Wills. The trade down and getting Delpit was a target and value move. They moved down and got Delpit to address a need but made sure that that they got him where he was valued.
The rest of the picks? The TE may have been a BPA pick. It seems like he was too good to pass on at that spot.
I like the Peoples pick at where he was taken. After Odell and Jarvis we seem thin. This guy has all the physical tools to excel. Why he didn't seems to be in question. Was it him not trying or the team not handling him right?
I don't pay much attention to draft grades. I mean hell if there are a million questions on who to draft. How can there not be questions on how they will actually play?
1) Correlation between Draft Position and "Starter Status"
Using Pro Football Reference as a resource, I looked at all players who were classified as starters at the beginning of the 2014 season to determine what round they were drafted in upon entering the league. Of the 595 players designated as such, the results reveal the following:
While the data is from 2014 - I have to think any variance will be small. According to this the starters in NFL taken in rounds 1-2-3 account for 60% of the total. It seems unlikely that the backups would vary enough from this % to flip the total number of players on a roster to 65% coming from rounds 4-7.
Also the stat discussed below that talks about how long careers are in the NFL - players in rounds 1-2-3 have WAY longer careers on average than players in rounds 4-7. Making it almost impossible for that claim to of 65% of the roster come from rounds 4-7 to be true.
Not saying they don't play a big part in any teams roster or that it's not important to find some contributors in those rounds .... just that the claim made on TV was not accurate.
It was a relatively safe draft with projectable players that should range anywhere from good backups to great starters.
Wills and Delpit can be anywhere from good to great. I think Elliot and Harris are likely starters, while Phillips and Bryant are situational players with starter upside. DPJ is a risky pick but can provide some serious value to special teams. Blocked something like 3 or 4 field goals and was a punt and kick returner.
If you want to break it down into even more simple terms:
Wills is an upgrade to Robinson, even if he's a better RT or G
Delpit is likely a wash in his first season for Randall, but with a better attitude
Elliot is a significant upgrade to...Ekuale?
Phillips is likely the same as Takitaki
Bryant is an upgrade to either Seals-Jones or Pharaoh Brown
So 26.3% of starters from rounds 4 on. That doesn’t really surprise me and jibes pretty well with what I said in the post above. About twice as many from rounds 4-7 as UDFA’s.
Not for nothing, this management team seems to be saying, while we love the players that were here that did a good job (Schobert and Kirksey and a few others) it's time to crank it up and doing a good job isn't enough.
Let's see if we picked the guys that can meet or exceed that challenge.
it does appear that we filled all the holes that were there.. LT, DT, S, LB.
This was an a++ draft. We got all the way to the 6th round before I saw a pick that I hated.
I believe we got the #1 tackle, #1 safety, 3rd or 4th best dt. The rest are just core type players.
Loved the TE pick as well after watching some video on him. Not a great blocker but he has tremendous effort on every play and he can get iut and catch.
There is a few undrafted receivers I would love for us to take, u know one that can actually catch the ball.
I believe this was a really solid draft for the Browns.
Jedrick Wills was a no-brainer he will be a stud, very solid pass blocker and an absolute muller when run blocking. With Chubb, Hunt and the rebuild at the TE position, I see the Browns becoming a power running offense. Wills to me was the best run blocker of the T group. Conklin on the right end is going to help Chubb and Hunt become the best RD tandem in the league. The Browns have needed an identity for many years so here it is, Chubb and Hunt running behind Wills, Bitonio, Tretter, Teller, Conklin.
I really like that the Browns went big in FA at T the turned around and used the 1st round pick on a T to solidify the ends of this line for a long time and I like just as much that they did the same at TE by bringing in Hooper in FA the drafted Bryant the 4th. Stefanski's high use of two TE formation would not have looked as good without the additions made in FA and this draft. Bryant was one of my favorite picks made in this draft.
I think by drafting WR Peoples-Jones so late shows that the Browns intend to keep Higgins around a bit longer, its a new coach and a new start for Higgins this year and I think he fits in well in this WR group.
I like the pick of C Harris which gives the Browns a legit backup behind Tretter.
Delpit was a value pick in the 2nd at a position of need and I can see him becoming a fan favorite once we see the difference he makes in the backfield. Not worried about any of the tackling issues that have been reported, he will be surrounded by Greedy Williamd and Denzel Ward who showed last year that they are not afraid of contact.
My other favorite pick in this draft was Elliott who I think is going to become the player that takessome of the pressure off of Myles Garrett. Elliott's ability to burst into the backfield at times is going to create problems opposing OL's. Think we will be seeing much more rotation on the DL than we did in the last few years. The addition of Billings in FA and the drafting of Elliott address some of the failure the Browns defense had stopping the run last year.
Last is the LB Phillips pick in the 3rd, many seem disappointed whit this selection and I really have no clue about the LB, but when you remember back to last year just how bad the tackling was with all the Browns LBs I can understand why he was drafted. The Browns desperately need a sure tackler at this position and I think they got him. I bet we will see him on the field for most plays two games a year when we play Baltimore and need his tackling ability to keep Lamar in check.
Thanks for this post with our other teams. Happy to see it, read it, and be able to compare a bunch of these guys. Didn't know a number of them this year.
eve, I think we improved ourselves every bit as much as the ravens did. we added a starting left tackle and a starting free safety. Even tho it does not affect this season I especially like taking a guy to be our future center when j.t. is done, and he will have a couple of seasons in the system to boot. the d lineman we took will strengthen our rotation with that group.
I am surprised that none of those reporters asked about the decision to pass on Malik Harrison for Phillips. They seemed pretty comparable in measureables but Malik is 20-25 lbs heavier. Ii would have liked to know what went into that call.
According to Andrew press conference nothing has come down from the nfl about resumption of team activities. I think they should start rookie camp at the normal time. Get every player tested before camp and isolate them in camp for the duration. When it comes time for the otas do the same thing with the entire team. There is no reason to delay things that are limited to a small testable group.
I do not know which (if any) of the talking heads you like but I like Daniel Jeremiah. In the weeks leading up to the draft he mentioned several times that this was one of the deepest drafts he could remember.
bizarre small world thing. When I was a kid Daniel jeremiah’s grandfather was the pastor at my church in Dayton.
65% of all NFL Rosters are comprised of Players drafted in Rounds 4 thru 7 and UDFA's.
Never thought about that. That's interesting. Salary Cap plays a role.
No wonder the CBA passed. Lol.
A good case for Contraction, Remove about 4 teams from the NFL by disbanding them, allowing their talent to be dispersed to the remaining teams.
And maybe a case they are getting paid too much. Well. I can't even believe that statement with what the owners make, how about: The top 4 round players are getting paid too much in relation to the bottom other round players, and that's why!
The top 4 round players don't make up more of the rosters, because the owners keep on cutting them for rookies,
And we see Bad Football as a result. ------
Yeah C- C- Ytown! They passed on JK Dobbins, if you believe he's going to be great, They had Beckton at 360 lbs go to the Jets a pick after you had your choice of OT's and picked a smaller one, if you believe that matters, They passed on Malik Harrisson in favor of the player they took Philips, if you believe the first one was better, one pick later
They watched Baun go, if you believed he was a fit, when he fell to your pick, for a "trade down" and he gets selected in the pick you gave up, and the trade down was of poor value, I don't need to explain, picks gained for given up
The Texans, Jets, Titans, Steelers, and Ravens, had nice drafts, I, I don't recall, but my memory is guessing at least 3 of those teams found solid DT's comparing favorably to the DT the Browns picked up, and at least marginaly matched with OT's the OT you picked up
IN a poker game of high card, you kept drawing 9s and Jacks, and watched your AFC rivals, division and otherwise pull out 9s and Jacks, to match you, So you didn't get better vs. them, in improvement
As one might have hoped.
So that, even a very solid draft, in the context of your rivals, A slightly unfortunate case of C-
But of course, You can fix all of that, One simple way,
Stefanski, Berry, and the rest just need to be More Adept, at developing your young talent than the other teams in the AFC, Texans, Titans, Jets, Steelers, Ravens, and Bengals,
Given the Browns track record: Of player development, and scheme, They got this!
Anyway, I really only knew two of the guys. I'd heard the name Harrison Bryant thrown around. Maybe SeniorBowl Coverage or something. Maybe a Podcast. Obviously I knew Jedrick Wills and Grant Delpit
Jedrick Wills was the guy i've touted all along. I took a good look into two groups of players. First the tackles. I knew i wanted one in the first round, so i did a heavy amount of research on 5 of them (Wills, Thomas, Wirfs, Becton, Jones, Cleveland), a bit on the 6th (Austin Jackson). Not going into the rest of them, Wills was hands down the top guy on my board for tackles. He was my number 2 guy for the Browns on the Browns Draft Board (Chase Young being number 1).
Wills was an easy A+ pick to me. We stayed calm, stood our ground, let the draft come to us, and we got my guy. First, Wills moves like a tackle. He moves side to side very fluidly, and he has great technique. I don't know much about the fundamentals of football. Never played it, only have watched it. But it became clear to me, early on, that Wills was very technically sound. His passblocking was his strongest asset, but he also was a real tough runblocker. He also seems to play the game with a mean streak. When he gets his hands on you, he hits you. He tosses guys to the ground (pass blocking and runblocking). Dude is ferocious. He has all the athleticism to play the part, and he just seems smooth out there.
From the beginning, i had him as our number 1 tackle on our board. And for everyone that tried to convince me that making the switch to LT would be more difficult for him than all the LT's that switch to right, no one ever gave me any real concrete evidence why it's any different. Later on Andrew Berry and Joe Thomas relayed my point. Plus, we've got a coach who's done it before in Tyronne Smith.
I don't think i've ever been happier about a Browns draft pick (since Joe Thomas) than i was with Jedrick Wills. That name was called, i hopped around, said thank god, and breathed relief.
Grant Delpit: I had Grant Delpit as my 2nd safety (and close with Winfield). I'd have liked to trade up for McKinney, no idea if that was an option, he was the 4th pick of the 2nd round. I think McKinney is a better all-around player and a stud for Alabama. But Delpit is great for our defense and I think he'll immediately be our starting FS. He's a great athlete and he finds his way to the ball/makes plays. He does need to work on his tackling (lots of missed tackles), but it's not like he's unwilling to do it. I think he just needs to clear up some fundamentals. He also played last year with the High Ankle Sprain (hopefully that doesn't become a re-occuring issue). As a FS/Centerfielder, he flies to the ball. He's in the action. He'll be making interceptions and making big stops. Hopefully, we can get the missed tackles figured out, because often the FS is the last line of defense, and he can stop a 25 yard gain from becoming a TD.
I prefered him over Winfield, because i was nervous, in today's TE NFL, that Winfield would have TE's catching jump balls over him in the endzone.
Elliot: Looks like an exciting penetrating defensive linemen. Hope that he works out here. Maybe he can find himself in a 3rd down/backup spot. With Richardson (so underrated for us last year), Larry Ogunjobi (who i like, but didn't seem as great last season), and Andrew Billings (run-stopper), i think Elliot will be the fourth man in the rotation for passing downs. I hope he can make a difference. I'm excited to see where he goes. I also hope that this doesn't spell the end of plans with Larry Ogunjobi (or Richardson, who as i said, i love)
Philips: Obviously, very few of us no much about him. Seems to be a tackling machine though. From what i read, he is great at getting to the ball. Not great at dropping into coverage/zone. We'll see how he fits. Played on the best team in the country, so there's that. Sometimes guys get lost in the mix when they're around a bunch of other studs.
Harrison Bryant: This guy i had heard of. From looking into it, he's a good blocker too. That makes me excited. While many don't seem to, I like Njoku. I'm very excited about Hooper too. I'm not sure what the plans are for Njoku after this year, but i do think he's too talented to forget about just because of the mess that was last season.
So this guy seems like a good all-around athlete, but most importantly, a good blocker. A balanced TE. I think that pretty much sets our TE Group with Hooper, Njoku, Bryant, Carlson
Harris: I don't know much about him, i'll have to look into him to really give my opinion. We just re-signed JC Tretter to an extension. I guess it's good to have a depth signing for Center. JC just turned 29, so it's good to have an insurance policy. Losing a Center can be a disaster as we saw Brian Hoyer's season (when we lost Alex Mack). Seems easier to slip a different position player in at guard, than it is to just put someone in at Center or Tackle. So i've got no problem with a Center Specialist on the team.
Peoples-Jones: Don't know much about him. Guess he's a very good athlete with a lot of talent, who just hasn't produced. Maybe a switch will turn on. I'm not that concerned. I wish we'd just re-sign Rashard Higgins and call that it.
As long as Beckham and Landry are healthy, i don't think any other WRs are going to get much work. Looking at our roster, i just don't see a lot of three WR sets. I'm not interested in Taywan Taylor or Damian Ratley at this point (good special teamers, but i don't expect any substantial production).
Trade Down: I thought we got good value in the trade down, although i'm not sure what the value of 2021 picks are with the college football season in question. Undoubtably, Andrew Berry has thought of this. Some folks get angry because of players on the board, but we dunno where they were on the Brown's Board and we don't know how they fit into our defense
To sum up all my feelings as a whole, I can't really grade it but i'm excited about all the new players. Free Agents and Draftees. I'm ecstatic that we got our two biggest needs covered with great/good players (Wills and Delpit), and i think we can look toward one more LB at some point being added to the roster. We'll keep 5, and i think we'll have a competition of 6. The main five right now i can think of would be Mack, Takitaki, Goodson, Philips. We'll bring in a FA, and there'll be an UDFA pushing guys like Philips and Takitaki. I mean, get on the phone with Michael (however he spells it) Kendricks. That'd be the best thing we could do
I do not think the gap between us and then increased at all. Not sure if it decreased but it did not increase imo. The gap last year was predominantly qb play. If baker returns to his old self that gap will go away. Those are going to be two very competitive games.
I do not think the gap between us and then increased at all. Not sure if it decreased but it did not increase imo. The gap last year was predominantly qb play. If baker returns to his old self that gap will go away. Those are going to be two very competitive games.
I agree keithfromxenia, these 2 games are going to be very competitive, we are 2-2 against them in the last 2 years and we are much better now, with a much much improved OL, and Baker done with his sophamore slump, I think we see the Baker from year 1, these 2 teams IMO are close and IMO Pittsburgh's hopes lay with Rothlessburger, but overall are 3rd in this division and I think the gap is bigger now than last year, the Bengals will be improved, how can they not be, but 5 wins would be great for them ... JMHO
Seals Jones was pretty good last year. If Bryant is an upgrade to that, people will start buying a bunch of Bryant jerseys.
I think Bryant is more of a TE/HBack than RSJ. Much better blocker than RSJ. Might not be as dynamic of a receiver, but a quality guy to have. Reminds me a little more of Barnidge and Steve Heiden than a F Tight End.
The draft is only part of the battle. Now we've got to get them ready and develop them.
It's the development side of things that we've stunk at as much as the drafting. Some of it was guys that were drafted in the past (Manziel,Gilbert, etc) not putting in the work. Some of it was just not having good plans for players (Erving, Corbett, etc).
One thing about the Wills interview that stuck with me is they talked a good bit about how he prepared and his process. I think they tried to draft "professionals" more than just athletes. Good athletes, certainly, but not just good athletes. Grinders that like getting into the film.
Hopefully the plans the staff have come to fruition.
I can see the fits with what they have talked about as far as scheme. Values seemed to line up well with the PFFs of the world.
Brent Sobleski @brentsobleski "I don't know if it is some mystery, but I think Andrew & I see this thing very similarly," Stefanski said. "When we are talking about this draft, we have some cultural non-negotiables and then we have some schematic non-negotiables."
Browns are going to have a tough time competeing against the Ravens
Like 2018 and 2019
I took a quick read on the R's draft, their paper didn't like it, but I did learn one thing, and it hit me
The Browns havent'(seemed to have) done this in 20 years why does it seem like something the Ravens always would.
The Paper was complaining the R's Ot they took was going to have to transition to the middle guard positions.
I dunno, Seems like OT's are far and away the better linemen, more sought after, and Drafting true OT's to transition to a guard spot would give you better toughness on your line. Than drafting centers, and Guards, which aren't able to transition to the outside because needing more speed and agility.
throw, I think we do that some. Wasn’t bitonio a tackle at unlv? And Corbett? And I think Forbes was too tho not sure. So we do draft tackles and move them inside.
throw, I think we do that some. Wasn’t bitonio a tackle at unlv? And Corbett? And I think Forbes was too tho not sure. So we do draft tackles and move them inside.
Works for me. If we add in a roster grade for FA, we are sitting as well as we have. Especially seeing, Kizer, JFF, and such in the mirror. The double-barrel of Hue and Freddy. Yeah, this draft and roster look pretty good.
GM Andrew Berry’s first Browns draft allays fears of Sashi Brown rerun
By Marla Ridenour Posted Apr 26, 2020 at 5:18 PM
If Alabama's Jedrick Wills can't make the switch from right to left tackle, Andrew Berry's first NFL Draft will lose much of its luster.
If LSU's Grant Delpit doesn't prove to be a playmaking safety at least on par with the University of Minnesota's Antoine Winfield Jr., the afterglow of what Berry oversaw will dim.
The afterglow is real, but Northeast Ohioans have experienced that before. All must remind themselves it might take years to assess what the seven rounds Thursday through Saturday brought the Browns.
But after the draft wrapped up, the youngest general manager in league history showed through his actions and words — at least those heard via Zoom — that he was poised and in control. Berry, 33, allayed some of the fears fans and observers had when he returned to the team in late January.
At that point, some wondered if Sashi Brown 2.0 was in store. Berry was the vice president of player personnel under Brown, who rose from his role as a salary cap and contract manager to become executive vice president of football operations as the Browns went 1-31 over two seasons. Only three players — Myles Garrett, David Njoku and Larry Ogunjobi — from Brown's two drafts remain.
With Berry back after spending 2019 with the Philadelphia Eagles and a more high-profile role for Chief Strategy Officer Paul DePodesta came the worry that analytics would once again reign in Berea.
When GM John Dorsey, assistant GM Eliot Wolf and vice president of player personnel Alonzo Highsmith walked out the door in the front office reshuffling, there was a sense that the football men had left the building.
But Berry and new coach Kevin Stefanski sounded like a leadership team in sync, with Berry praising Stefanski's insight, calmness and intelligence and calling him "a great thought partner in terms of strategy," and not just in terms of Xs nd Os. Considering some of the bad coach-GM marriages of the past (Mike Pettine-Ray Farmer, anyone?) that in itself sounds like progress for a team that hasn't reached the playoffs since 2002.
The Browns did not make the predictable analytics-driven move and trade down in the first round. They stayed at No. 10 and selected Wills, the highest-rated offensive tackle on their board, sparing fans the horrific freefall to No. 30 orchestrated by former coach Bill Belichick and Mike Lombardi in 1995.
They saved their maneuvering for day two, when moving down from 41st to 44th in a deal with the Indianapolis Colts netted them a fifth-round pick used on University of Washington center Nick Harris. The Browns also traded Nos. 74 and 244 to the Saints, sliding to 88th to select Missouri defensive tackle Jordan Elliott. They picked up a 2021 third-rounder in that deal.
That set the Browns up with 10 picks in the 2021 draft, their own in the first six rounds and four more (a third, fourth, fifth and seventh) via trades, three of those coming on Dorsey's watch.
Day two is also where the Browns' moves deserve second-guessing. They chose Delpit over Winfield, the son of the former Garfield High School and Ohio State star lauded for his professional habits and nose for the ball. They passed on Wisconsin linebacker Zack Baun to boost a position of need at No. 74 and selected LSU linebacker Jacob Phillips at 97. The ninth linebacker taken, Phillips was ranked 17th at the position by The Athletic's Dane Brugler. Adding to the teeth-gnashing was the fact that the Baltimore Ravens pounced on Ohio State linebacker Malik Harrison (Brugler's No. 8) with the next pick.
Phillips, the Tigers' leading tackler in 2019 and No. 2 in that category in 2018, was the most head-scratching selection over the three days.
But it didh't feel like Harvard graduates Berry and DePodesta and Stefanski, a Penn product, were trying to prove they were smarter than everyone else by reaching for players or taking several from smaller schools. Their first four picks came from the Southeastern Conference, two from national champion LSU. Three-time All-Ivy League cornerback Berry and Stefanski, a defensive back in college, seemed to find athletes to fit the "smart, tough, accountable mantra" that West Coast scout Adam Al-Khayyal said they have continued to preach.
Of course, it may be four or five years before we know for sure.
The Browns' mystifying avoidance of Ohio State players continued, but that's an indictment of every regime. Since 1977, they have chosen only five Buckeyes. At least Michigan receiver Donovan Peoples-Jones, a sixth-round pick hampered by poor quarterback play during his days with the Wolverines, was heavily recruited by former OSU coach Urban Meyer. If Peoples-Jones sheds the underachiever label, he could be the steal of the draft.
Analytics was obviously in play for the Browns, but it did not overshadow their selections. Pro Football Focus loved their draft, as Cleveland was the only team to choose three of PFF's top 25 — Wills (11, taken 10th), Delpit (15, 44th) and Elliott (23, 88th). PFF had Phillips ranked 184th (taken 97th), Bryant 147th (115th), Harris 93rd (160th) and Peoples-Jones 159th (187th).
The throwback nature of the virtual draft during the coronavirus pandemic eliminated pro days and the 30 pre-draft visits allowed in Berea. Face-to-face interviews were conducted at postseason all-star games, the Senior Bowl and the NFL Combine, but relegated to Skype, Zoom and other remote platforms after that.
Small-school prospects were most affected, according to Glenn Cook, the Browns' assistant director of scouting, but the Browns chose only one, Bryant.
"It was (a challenge), but I'll say this was probably one of the funner times for the pure scout, right?" Cook said Saturday. "It's one of those moments where you have to rely on the tape and leverage that as much as you can.
"I wouldn't say we watched any more tape. To a degree it could become a little bit of an issue if you just second-guessed yourself too much. You had time here and there to say, 'Let me take just one extra look at this particular player.'"
COVID-19 may have forced the Browns to turn back the clock in how they evaluated players, but Berry, Stefanski and their staffs seemed to have a handle on it. Perhaps the football men have not left the building after all.
Very happy with the Wills pick, but Delpit is a pick that I like the most after that. I’m liking what I read about him. We haven’t had a true great safety since Eric Turner, so I hope he studs out.
I agree. We haven’t had a true safety ... especially for numerous years. It’d be awfully nice to have someone back there that teams had to game plan to work around, not work towards
One never knows. Wills is a great pick. He may end up having trouble moving to the left side. I don't think he will, but if so, we still have a good O-lineman. The guy can block, both pass block and mauling people at the line in run blocking. Just look at the guy. He is about as wide as the desk at which I am typing. He's a big boy. I hope his Mama was a wide hipped woman because I don't think she dropped a 7 pounder when she birther that kid.
Delpit….solid player
I like the Phillips pick, backer from LSU. I watch a lot of SEC football and that guy while not flashy always was around the ball. He is a run stopper. They say his coverage skills lack. I don't know. I don't think guys like Butkus or Lambert were all that good at covering guys. I know they were good at putting running backs on the ground in a hurry.
He might be the opposite of Shobert. Sho was good at covering people, this kid is good at meeting people at the LOS. All things being equal, I'd rather have a tackling machine at backer over a slightly upsized safety who can cover. JMO
Like I said, you don't watch Butkus highlights to see his coverage skills. You watch to see him put people in to the dirt.
Well for starters it sort of reminded me of a Dorsey draft - I remember when Dorsey took over and our drafts went from having an air of panic to them and reacting to what was going on ... to seeming like we had a plan and contingency and knew who we were targeting without fear. And that's how it felt this year with Berry at 32 or 33 as the youngest GM in football. So that was a plus.
Generally I thought we made picks that made a lot of sense - but that doesn't count for squat. We find out about our draft picks through how they play. I will agree that on paper we improved the team significantly.
Regarding the final 3 draft picks - all on Offense - seems to scream to me that they went BPA instead of drafting for need. That's important when you consider we traded out of being able to draft Baun and we didn't take Harrison. Clearly they weren't BPA on the Browns draft board ... commendable that they went with their board, lets hope they were correct!
I was impressed by Berry and Company's first draft. They had a plan, let the draft come to them, and executed. That was shown by how quickly they had most of their picks in.
It would have been interesting to see what would have happened if Simmons or Brown fell to the Browns at 10. We will never know now.
It seems like the drafted to fill needs, but still got good value. The biggest question mark was the LB, but we'll see how it plays out.
Too early to grade the draft, but I'll just say I was pleased to see how well it looked like everyone was working together (at least on the surface), and how prepared they were. It bodes well for the future. That was my biggest take-away.
Once again I was told Columbus Ohio had the highest television ratings for the NFL Draft, nationaly. Maybe local radio just "tells" us this every year.
I'll try not to comment too much on the picks themselves. We haven't even seen them on a Browns field yet.
I was happy to see we weren't trade-down-happy. I think that proves that this regime isn't Sashi 2.0, which makes me very happy. I think this FO group has done everything they need to do in order to shake that characterization. I will do my best to stop putting that moniker on them.
I don't know if I'm off-base here, but I feel like we were a little too "locked-in" on certain players. It felt like a couple times we were targeting a very specific player, and once that guy was gone, we bailed on the pick and traded down. Conversely, other teams had no problem picking a player from the same position group as we had just picked. This stuck out to me. I'm not sure if I'm noticing something that wasn't actually there, or did notice something but am making a mountain out of a molehill. I think if we had been a little more open-minded on who we wanted, we would've stayed at one or more of our trade-downs, and gotten a possible-impact-player at a position of need (I'm worried about LB position).
I think we did a great job, overall, of picking players that were projected to go much higher. Projecting draft spots is an extremely subjective process, so I understand that's a "take it for what it's worth" thing, but at the same time, this was a recurring theme throughout our draft (all the way down to a couple of our UDFAs), and I think that's very encouraging (really can't take it any other way).
I definitely got a strong BPA vibe from our draft. We can argue the actual picks themselves, and I already argued above about not landing that impact LB, but that was said with the perspective of what we did is far better than swinging in the other direction. I definitely prefer our approach over the opposite. I also need to keep reminding myself that the LB issue is a FA-problem... not a 2020 draft problem.... in that the problem was created via FA (not re-signing Schobert and not filling that need prior to the draft).
EO, I loved everything you said, it keeps me from having to type it all out. 1 thing , we drafted Harrison Bryant, TE, FAU, not Hunter from Wash. Our guy is 6'5 the guy you mentioned is the 6'2 guy. Sorry to point that out , but our guy is better. Go Browns
Sorry...no please nothing to be sorry about, that is a big mistake on my part and my apologies to all...Crap now I got to study this kid Harrison
this kid Harrison is not bad at all. Played LT so will understand blocking assignments especially as the Y TE even though the EXPERTS don't like him there cause they are looking at his weight.
But our Strength and conditioning coaches should be able to add 10-20 lbs of muscle over the next 2 seasons and increase his speed in the process. But he has the experience and knowledge to become adept at his duties as Y TE. Its all about angles not head on power.
He had a higher prospect grade than the other Bryant I was looking at. Going on NFL site in grading these rookies.
Kid could be better than expected regarding Red Zone possibilities. Again this mid-to late round picks its all about HOW THEY DEVELOP.
CLEVELAND BROWNS Round 1 (10): T Jedrick Wills, Alabama Round 2 (44): S Grant Delpit, LSU Round 3 (88): DI Jordan Elliott, Missouri Round 3 (97): LB Jacob Phillips, LSU Round 4 (115): TE Harrison Bryant, FAU Round 5 (160): IOL Nick Harris, Washington Round 6 (187): WR Donovan Peoples-Jones, Michigan
Day 1: There were some concerns that there may be a run of tackles prior to the Browns’ selection, but they were left with their pick of the top options sans Andrew Thomas. Wills came in as PFF’s OT3 — and the 11th player overall on PFF’s Big Board — and he was the top tackle on a lot of boards out there, drawing a player comp to Lane Johnson in the PFF Draft Guide. He has special explosion and agility for someone that large and should be able to immediately make an impact in the run game after earning a 90.5 run-blocking grade with the Crimson Tide in 2019.
“His ability to crush a double team then take a linebacker for a ride is special for a college tackle prospect.” PFF’s lead draft analyst Mike Renner
Day 2: The Browns were able to pick up not one, not two, but three top-25 players on the PFF Big Board. Two of those players came at selections 44 and 88, which is a testament to the value Cleveland was able to get.
Delpit fell down boards largely due to his concerns as a tackler, but what he is able to do in coverage is special. He has tremendous instincts and ability to read and break on routes, he has smooth movement skills on the back end of a defense, and he has the kind of length that can give bigger wide receivers or tight ends problems in the slot. That playmaking ability is apparent when flipping on the tape from his 2018 season when he recorded five interceptions and seven pass breakups.
Elliott was an even bigger steal in the third round. He has a solid combination of size and athleticism, and from a production standpoint, you can argue that no interior defender in this class has been better. Elliott has the highest overall grade of any interior defender in the class over the last two seasons. He is coming off a 2019 campaign in which he earned grades of 90.0 or higher as both a run defender and pass-rusher. Getting that kind of player — the 23rd-ranked player on the PFF Big Board — at No. 88 is tremendous value.
“He has all the makings of a player who can develop into a versatile starter with plenty of upside in the NFL.” – PFF senior writer Ben Linsey
As for Jacob Phillips, this looks like more of a reach than the other selections for the Browns, with guys like Troy Dye and Akeem Davis-Gaither still on the board at linebacker. From an athletic standpoint, Phillips has the explosion and burst that you like, but the change of direction ability isn’t quite there. That is something that’s likely to show up in coverage.
Day 3: Bryant isn't athletic enough to pass for a receiver and not strong enough to be a traditional tight end. Unless he transforms his body one way or another, he'll be in no man's land in the NFL. He did, however, improve his overall grade every year of his collegiate career and finished the pre-draft process inside the top-150 on PFF’s Big Board.
Harris ground out 2,921 snaps on the Huskies’ offensive line over the past four years. During his true freshman campaign in 2016, Harris saw four starts but was mostly rotated in at both left and right guard and earned just a 47.6 grade in pass protection. He was then moved to the starting role at right guard in 2017 and improved his pass-blocking grade to an average 63.3. He was moved to center after that, where he has thrived as a starter over the last two years. Harris improved in both pass protection and in run blocking, leading to a PFF overall grade that was among the 20 best FBS centers in both 2017 and 2018. If there’s a center you want playing out in space either in the running game or on screens, it’s Harris. The scary thing is that he’s just scratching the surface technique-wise.
The physical tools may be there from a testing perspective, but we never saw them consistently translate to separation down the football field with Peoples-Jones. Without another trump card, it's difficult to be convinced with his lack of production.
However, I think you can look at the draft and draw some conclusions.
There is always the BPA/Need argument. Then there is value.
Ideally you would like need to intersect with BPA. That appeared to be the case for Wills. LT was a need and according to the Browns their top choice of the LT prospects. They also stated that Wills was the top guy on their Board.
They traded back and got Delpit. Obviously a FS was a need going into the draft. Was he the top guy on their Board? Well they traded back. So probably not. But in trading back 3 slots they picked up a fifth. Then they selected a need at what they perceived was at the proper value.
The TE and DT seem like solid value picks.
The linebacker?
I like the center/guard pick he seems like a good fit who could develop.
People's the receiver looks like a steal. He seems a scouts pick. A guy with great measurables with low production from improper utilization.
I don't have a grade but the picks have logic.
The final test is still to come. I am not going to go overboard either way about great or poor the draft was.
Yup. Aside from the fact that none of them have done anything on the field in the NFL, all we're doing is comparing what we did with what the Draft gurus thought we should do... and their speculation is wrong more than anything. If anyone needs proof or wants to dispute that, I simply refer you to how many Drafts we've been given that the media raved about where three years later we were talking about what bums those guys were.
Beside that, I think you nailed it: Need vs BPA is really a Venn diagram and you look for the player whose area of intersection is the largest. Given that, we theoretically did pretty ok this year.
This Draft seems different than most others for the Browns, I mean they targeted certain positions and from what I see they pretty much stuck to the plan.
ROUND 1 (PICK #10) We all knew we needed a Top RT, and LT, they filled the RT position with an all-pro from Tennessee Jack Conklin, and then they may have picked the Best LT in the draft in the 1st Rd., in Round 1 (10): We Selected T Jedrick Wills, Alabama.
ROUND 2 (PICK #44) We have all known how badly our Safety Position needed an upgrade, they did so in FA with the acquisitions of Andrew Sendjeo from the Vikings, and Karl Joseph from Oakland, and in the 2nd Rd. they may have gotten a massive steal because his 2019 season wasn't what most "Experts" who had him as a Top 10 pick after his 2018 Season wanted, so they picked maybe the best Safety in the draft, in Round 2 (44): we selected S Grant Delpit, LSU.
ROUND 3 (PICK #88 and #97) On Defense we Needed help inside against the Run, So DL was a position of interest, so they added DT Andrew Billings from the Bengals, then they drafted in Round 3 (88): We Selected DL Jordan Elliott, Missouri, who may have been an even bigger steal than Delpit and was, he was the 23rd-ranked player on the PFF Big Board — and picking him at No. 88 is tremendous value. Then came LB, they brought in BJ Goodson from GB, but this position needs more help, even after they drafted in the 3rd rd. maybe the best tackling LB in the draft. In Round 3 (97): we selected LB Jacob Phillips, LSU. Even with his tackling ability many think this was our weakest pick, we will see.
ROUND 4 (PICK #115) We were pretty solid at TE, but many thought we would bring in a young TE on day 3, and man did they ever, The Mackey Award winner, 1st team All-Amecican TE who may be once again the best player at his position in this draft. In Round 4 (115): We Selected TE Harrison Bryant, FAU.
ROUND 5 (PICK #160) We all were thinking and the Browns were saying we could use some depth in the Interior of the OL, JC Tretter just signed a nice contract to be our Center for a while, but we took in the 5th rd. from Washington Center Nick Harris who can also play Guard, he was a pretty good choice, he is very durable and will learn from and backup JC Tretter, but could play Guard if needed, much need depth. In Round 5 (160): We Selected IOL Nick Harris, Washington.
ROUND 6 (PICK #187) We knew the Browns were looking to draft a WR somewhere in the 2020 draft, not that we were hurting at WR as much as some other positions. And they may have landed the Steal of the draft, at any position. When they took WR Donovan Peoples-Jones out of Michigan, right away the talk started around the NFL of how Jim Harbaugh may have held this kid back with the kind of Offense he ran, and how he was a great PR as well as a great WR and playing behind Landry and OBJ will only make him better. So in Round 6 (187): We took WR Donovan Peoples-Jones, Michigan.
Overall most are saying we had a top 5 draft, we will have to wait and see, but I will say that the Browns new FO and HC did a pretty good job for their first draft together ...
Not at all. I didn't go to a Ivey. My ACT score was good enough to maybe get in....,it was 32 but that is the low end. I am glad I went to Florida. Swamp girl's and Honky Tonks with real country music about 25 miles west of campus in Dixie County. I mean swamp country.
We would have had a blast my friend. Well, assuming you like to drink beer, have fun, and hang with a bunch of Daisy Dukes, before there was a Daisy Duke. Now I remember, Daisy Mae from the Lil' Abner cartoon strip. Yep, you would have liked those chicks. Good times.
I mean, what's not to like about short shorts, big breasts, pretty faces, and cold beer? It usually has a pretty good ending.
And bro ... the best part ... there down to earth girls that act like they have no idea just how hot they are ... always loved about about women from across the pond ...
Just having some fun with U dawg ...
Let me know what’s left after u give your tickets away ... would love to go to a game with U ... i may head up anyhow and if i do I’m coming up Saturday just to buy u dinner Saturday night ... if that’s OK with u ...
Will do man. It has to happen this year. I am not getting any younger. Keep putting it off, well, you know, there may not be a next year.
There are no swamp bars in Cleveland, and none that I have found that play real country music, and don't tell my wife, but there are places where you find pretty faces, big breasts, and cold beer.
The ending is as I choose. I just go back to the room and watch sports center. It is what it is.
Well Well Well.. I must be on a Cleve browns board if I see Ballpeen and DiamDog going at it!!
I hope you two have been in good health!!...
And you two should have liked the draft. They picked good talent for positions of need, not just flashy names. But of course, we will see what happens when the pads are on!!
Well Well Well.. I must be on a Cleve browns board if I see Ballpeen and DiamDog going at it!!
I hope you two have been in good health!!...
And you two should have liked the draft. They picked good talent for positions of need, not just flashy names. But of course, we will see what happens when the pads are on!!
Good to see you Dog. We had some good, honest conversations in the past. I appreciated that. Much respect.
Actually it's not the same. Diam and I are pretty good friends these days. Age has a mellowing effect.
I liked the draft and I like some of the undrafted guys we signed. We filled needs but didn't reach in doing so, so we held to the BPA as well. Both important.
Only time will tell, but I think we have a pretty solid triumvirate with Berry, Stefanski, and DePodesta. All sharp men, with different skill sets.
Well Well Well.. I must be on a Cleve browns board if I see Ballpeen and DiamDog going at it!!
I hope you two have been in good health!!...
And you two should have liked the draft. They picked good talent for positions of need, not just flashy names. But of course, we will see what happens when the pads are on!!
Hope your in good health too my friend ... hope all is well with u sir ,...
Loved our draft ...
Wasn’t happy with the firing of KJ but I think (hope) were in good hands ... thesy’ve done a good job so far IMO (that prolly don’t bode well for them as I have been wrong more than usual lately ... ) ...
I really like Wills. I think Delpit could be an impact players. We'll see on the rest. If they all become more than a situational player/special teamer, then it's all gravy.
I am on the side that grading drafts immediately after them is just plain dumb. I understand the need for them by the networks, especially at a time like this when there is little to no live sports going on.
With that said, I like that we addressed some needs. We have a LT prospect. I hope he can take over the job from day one.
I love Grant Delpit. Ridiculous athlete with playmaking ability. Also love his size cause it really seems like our guys in the past have gotten bullied by bigger more physical receivers. Delpit played hurt last year and still was one of the best players on a championship defense. I think he's definitely an opening day starter.
It's going to be a tough road though, especially with a brand new staff, new scheme, veteran guys having to learn right with the young guys. I really hope this coaching train stops with Kevin Stefanski.
I really like the pick of Donovan Peoples Jones. I think you can move him around a little bit, he can return on special teams. It will be tough to find him playing time with the current depth chart, but I really don't think he was fully utilized in that Michigan offense. You can't beat the value though.
So yeah I like the positions they addressed, but we will have to see how everything fits in this brand new system.
I hated to see JK Dobbins end up in Baltimore. He's going to be a player and a guy we are going to have to deal with twice a year. It was a really good pick on their part
I agree how can anyone really evaluate the draft except by seeing how teams possibly filled some holes. In lieu of that I think we filled our holes with proficiency.
My sleeper pick is Jordan Elliot...pleased with all that I have read about him.
Every year the the consencus on this board applauds and oggles the Browns draft. Doesn't matter the year or the GM making the picks. Heck Sashi and Farmer were getting ready To have statues erected outside the stadium in their likeness based on their drafts. Time will tell. But dont be surprised if Wills and Delphit aren't All Pros right out the gate They are still rookiea
From what I know, it appears that the Browns had a solid to better draft .... as did much of the NFL. I think that this draft was really, really deep. We'll see in a few years (and hopefully not a few front office and coaching staff changes) from now.
Every year the the consencus on this board applauds and oggles the Browns draft.
Yeah, I have come to pretty much despise post-draft posts. It's always so one-sided and you know what folks are going to say as soon as you see their name. If someone questions a pick, a half-dozen posters call him out. If a poster says stuff like I am so glad the Browns did not draft Malik Henderson and did not re-sign Joe Schobert....no one says a word. LMAO.
With that said, I am okay w/our draft. I thought they made some good picks. Just way too early to tell.
An inside look at Cleveland Browns draft: Why they took who they took Updated 11:49 AM; Today 6:05 AM
By Terry Pluto, The Plain Dealer THE BIG PICTURE
One of the reasons the Cleveland Browns draft went so well is GM Andrew Berry and coach Kevin Stefanski got to know each other when Stefanski first interviewed for the coaching job in 2019.
That’s important.
Berry was among those who interviewed Stefanski in 2019. So was Paul DePodesta, the Browns’ chief strategy officer who recommended Stefanski to be hired over Freddie Kitchens. Former GM John Dorsey pushed for Kitchens, and he had the most influence. But DePodesta and the Haslam family saw the chemistry between Berry and DePodesta a year ago. That’s why they quickly pivoted to them after Dorsey and Kitchens were fired following the 2019 season.
When Stefanski was hired, I was concerned the Browns would be a coach-driven team. That means the coach would run the draft, the GM would be nothing more than a glorified player personnel director who brought information to the coach.
It turns out Berry had the final say. But he and Stefanski had discussed how to build the team, the “tough, smart and accountable” mantra being part of it.
COACHING AND SCHEMES
Berry has a clear understanding of how Stefanski runs his offense – lots of tight ends, zone blocking schemes, etc. The Browns also used significant input from offensive line coach Bill Callahan, defensive coordinator Joe Woods and other coaches when putting the draft plan together.
For example, the Browns wanted to avoid what happened to Genard Avery in 2019. Avery was the team’s fifth-round draft choice in 2018. The linebacker/defensive end had 4.5 sacks playing 58 percent of the snaps in the Gregg Williams defense. But in 2019, Steve Wilks replaced Williams. The bottom line was Wilks ran a different defense and Avery didn’t fit. He played five snaps on defense for the Browns last season.
In the middle of the 2019 season, Avery was traded to the Philadelphia Eagles (where Berry was an assistant GM) for a fourth-round pick in 2021. Avery played little on defense (33 snaps), but was a core special teams player.
The scheme was why the Browns drafted LSU linebacker Jacob Phillips (No. 97) over Ohio State linebacker Malik Harrison. In the Joe Woods defense, that inside SAM linebacker needs more speed – a strength for Phillips. Harrison is an old-fashioned run-stopper.
Harrison was picked directly (No. 98) after Phillips. He went to the Baltimore Ravens, whose defense is better suited to Harrison’s skills.
The Browns wanted to avoid drafting a player who doesn’t fit their schemes. This is especially true in the middle and lower rounds of the draft, where success often depends upon which team selects a player and how he’s used.
ABOUT TACKLES ARE TACKLES
When Berry said “tackles are tackles,” it was based on a few things:
1. He was talking about tackles who are worthy of being drafted in the top 10 to 15 picks. These are young men with a high level of athleticism, not just any tackle. These are players with quick feet and the intelligence to adapt to coaching and learn a new position.
2. Berry believes defenses have changed. The days of lining up your best pass-rusher over the left tackle and allowing the two to duel it out on every snap are over. Now, defensive coordinators move their best pass rusher to different parts of the line.
3. The Browns wanted two strong tackles. That’s why they invested $42 million ($30 million guaranteed) in free agent Jack Conklin to play the right side. Conklin did play left tackle in college and made the switch to right tackle in the pros.
4. Callahan had a very strong voice in this selection. The Browns rated Wills as the best pure tackle in the draft. He has always been a right tackle in high school and college. The Browns believe he has the mentality and physical gifts to play either side. Callahan is convinced Wills is ready to make the switch.
5. Wills is very open to the change. It’s why he’s already been in contact with former Browns left tackle Joe Thomas. He’s studying videos of other great left tackles. The Browns talk about Wills being “coached hard” by Nick Saban and his Alabama coaching staff. That also is a reason they rated him so highly.
6. Callahan has a specialized zone blocking scheme. It’s also one favored by Stefanski. Wills is a powerful run-blocker, something very important as the Browns plan to put more emphasis on the running game.
7. Much of the success of this draft is based upon Wills making the change to left tackle. It’s possible that he could end up at guard or right tackle in the future, but that’s not why they drafted him.
WHAT CAN HE DO?
1. Second-round pick Grant Delpit said some of his tackling problems were due to the high ankle sprain he dealt with for at least half of the 2019 season. But the fact is Delpit has missed a lot of tackles in the last two years: 18 in 2018, 20 in 2019.
2. While the Browns believe Delpit can improve his tackling, they didn’t want to draft him simply on that projection. Rather, how can he help the team even if his tackling is inconsistent?
3. This is where Woods played a role. Woods loves Delpit’s versatility. He can play either safety spot. He makes big plays with pass breakups and interceptions. He can blitz the quarterback.
4. The “smart, tough, accountable” standard came into play because Delpit missed only one game with the high ankle sprain. He knew his team had a shot at the national title and he wanted to be on the field.
5. Profootballfocus (PFF) gave Delpit a first-round grade: “Missed tackles be damned, Delpit does things in coverage no other safety in this class can match. At the very least, he can completely erase tight ends or bigger slot receivers in a man-heavy defense with his length.”
6. The Browns had the same view of Delpit, valuing what he can do and planning to put him in position to accentuate his strength.
TOO GOOD TO PASS UP Florida Atlantic tight end Harrison Bryant was a big fourth-round surprise to the Browns. Paul Vernon, AP
ABOUT THE BROWNS DRAFT
1. The Browns did have an interest in Wisconsin linebacker Zack Baun, but this is where the scheme issue came into play. They were certain he was not the right fit. His style of play was ideal for the New Orleans Saints, who swapped their No. 88 pick for the Browns’ pick at No. 74 and took Baun.
2. The Browns also added a third-round pick in 2021. They had a high third-round grade on Missouri tackle Jordan Elliott and believed they could grab him at No. 88. So the deal was Elliott and a third-rounder in 2021 for Baun.
3. After Wills and Delpit, it’s unfair to project the other players as starters. If you can come out of a draft with a pair of starters and a pair of role players, that’s a success.
4. The Browns and other teams have used some data showing most drafts have 30 to 35 starters. It’s a higher standard than simply a player who starts for a season or two. It’s a player who would start for multiple years on a good team. Elliott might not develop into a full-time starter, but the Browns believe the 303-pounder can be a good role player on the defensive line.
5. The Browns didn’t intend to pick a tight end at the start of the draft, but they were overjoyed when Harrison Bryant fell to them in the fourth round. Bryant is the Mackey Award winner as college football’s best tight end. He showed excellent pass receiving skills at Florida Atlantic. Stefanski loves tight ends. Don’t think twice, grab him now... and they did.
6. Why draft Nick Harris in the fifth round? Like Bryant, there is no reason to expect him to start this season. But Harris is a zone-blocking center, perfect for Callahan’s scheme. He is the “tough, smart and accountable” athlete loved by Browns scouts. He also played 17 games for Washington at guard. This pick, No. 160, came from the Indianapolis Colts when the Browns dropped from No. 41 to No. 44 in the second round.
7. Just as Elliott gives the Browns depth on the defensive line, Harris does that for the offensive line.
8. In the sixth round, the Browns took Donovan Peoples-Jones from Michigan. They know his raw physical skills have far exceeded his production in three Big Ten seasons. He was picked No. 187. Sort of a “why not?” pick, see if the Browns can coach up this guy who was perhaps the top high school receiver in the country when he passed up OSU to sign with Michigan. He also can be an asset on special teams as a punt returner.
9. The Browns want to begin developing their young players, not simply throwing them immediately into action. It’s what good, stable organizations do. It’s what the Browns have never done since 1999 because of all the changes. The hope is ownership will be patient with Berry/Stefanski, who do seem to work well together.
I like the sounds of Delpit being able to matchup with TE’s ... our Achilles heel for so long. Especially now since Baltimore so heavily relies upon them.
Every year the the consencus on this board applauds and oggles the Browns draft.
Yeah, I have come to pretty much despise post-draft posts. It's always so one-sided and you know what folks are going to say as soon as you see their name. If someone questions a pick, a half-dozen posters call him out. If a poster says stuff like I am so glad the Browns did not draft Malik Henderson and did not re-sign Joe Schobert....no one says a word. LMAO.
With that said, I am okay w/our draft. I thought they made some good picks. Just way too early to tell.
I like that this draft actually felt kind of "thought out"
Like there was actually intent behind all the picks made this year.
There's totally been years in the past where I kind of felt like every pick except one or two felt like a head scratcher.
Like people forgot about their homework and just sort of scrambled things together.
This year felt calculating. A lot of the picks fill needs, but didn't feel like drafting for need. Not a lot of picks that felt like they were reaching anywhere.
Gives me a better understanding of this Fo and staff Drafted .. On record as concerned with Wood as we start a new season. Have feeling we will get gassed in the run game again. I am an old fashion D guy . I Draft Harrison , stick him in the middle and watch him grow as the seasons roll by. Malik shuts down the run game and is a hell of a blitzer up the middle. I Would have picked either the Tweener Chinn or the Swiss Army knife Davis over Delpit .. Would have reached for an Edge guy over a TE at that point in the draft.
The last few seasons the D scheme has been as much a problem as the personnel. Light weight often hurt DB's don't help.
I agree. We knew we had holes to fill, but didn’t reach ... and still did take BPA at positions where we didnt really need.
It seemed like our priorities were: - Scheme fit - Youth - Character
I think scheme fit and youth were near the top of the list along with raw talent. I would say that’s why we took Bryant and Elliot when we did even though they weren’t positions of great need.
Every year the the consencus on this board applauds and oggles the Browns draft. Doesn't matter the year or the GM making the picks. Heck Sashi and Farmer were getting ready To have statues erected outside the stadium in their likeness based on their drafts. Time will tell. But dont be surprised if Wills and Delphit aren't All Pros right out the gate They are still rookiea
That is totally false, and utter horse crap. No, for many years many of the people on this site would have done better than the Browns management. Me included. I will say that Dorsey did better, I have no issues with this draft. Plus or minus there is an approach that can be seen.
Horses don't have utters bro... You're thinkin' of cows.
I remember fishing on a remote lake with some locals in the UP of Michigan. We drank way more than our share trying to keep up with them. Started getting into some good natured ribbing, and they were laughing at the way we spoke, claiming that their dialect was actually more correct as far as the English language goes. As soon as he said that, he looked at the water and said, "hey, where's my udder bobber, eh!". My brother and I laughed so hard I thought we were going to throw down.
The theme of this draft was all about drafting for NEEDS. the team had needs so they drafted to fill those needs. I am not so sure they got the best players available though. In general when a team drafts based on needs they tend to settle for lesser quality players but since they fill a need they tend to start right away whether they deserve to or not.
I was not thrilled with drafting a RT to fill our LT spot because whenever there is a switch to the other side of the field it slows down the learning curve. Joe Thomas made a fair point though when he mentioned a player will receive more practice in his rookie year than he does his entire college career. Also, Joe knows a thing or two about Left Tackles and if this kid is truly the one he wanted the Browns to pick then there must be something. Hell, if the kid will just soak up what Joe is willing to share with him then there is a chance he will do great things.
If we have our new LT and he plays at a pro level then this draft is great. I don't even care if the rest bomb if we have our LT position fixed now. It's that important a pick.
We haven't had a team meeting together, not a single combined practice of any sort...yet, grade the draft. OK, I'll bite.
Love the tough, accountable, smart, etc mantra of this regime.
Believe the "normal" high selections should be starter for many years....except in Cleveland where we've thrown away top picks.
With all that- I give us an A. Why, because from what I've read and seen so far.....NOT much on seen...our first round pick IS dedicated to his craft, is very young and talented, and is from among, IF not, the BEST college football program. He has shown WANT TO, and Callahan, who has been around forever stated character and smarts win over most, our "kid" has superb athletic ability to go with his want to....and Joe Thomas is helping him. AN A+ pick....and a NEED, sweet!!!!
Delpit, many stated he was first round talent, slipped due to tackling concerns....he was hurt, and he wasn't going to make his money by tackling, rather by covering. PLUS, comes from among the best college programs, faced top talent yearly- another A.
The rest are potential starters, role players....Mackey winner in a TE heavy O....when, we got some good value for picks late in my humble opinion. Homer, yes, but living in Fl still give us a much needed A. Go Browns!!!!
I loved the draft.. I didn't get nearly as into it this year (pre-draft) as previous years but from all that I've read, I'm very happy with it. Nobody is calling it the sexiest draft or making outrageous predictions like last year.. nobody is really mocking it or making fun of it... the general consensus among people who know a lot more about it than I do is that it was just a very solid draft and we got some very good football players. It reminds me a lot of most of Ozzie's drafts with the Ravens, not a lot of flash or flair, just football players who project well to do what it is we are going to want them to do.
The one big assumption is that Baker can return to (and improve on) his rookie season.. if he can do that, we are an 11 or 12 win team on paper... the question is do we have an 11 or 12 win coaching staff and how, with the likely shortened and modified offseason, how is that going to impact teams with new staffs...
Veteran staffs with veteran teams in key positions are likely to have a HUGE advantage going into this season.
Maybe I just haven't watched enough drafts yet, but I get really encouraged when the consensus of talking heads (not one or two, but many) say the majority of our picks were expected to go higher than we selected them. To me, that means we picked good players, and we were largely picking BPA. Both of those things are big positives.
I felt our draft deserved an A. I think the Phillips pick at LB is going to be a lot better than most people think. I really like his hustle, tackling, attitude and desire to play the game.
I felt our draft deserved an A. I think the Phillips pick at LB is going to be a lot better than most people think. I really like his hustle, tackling, attitude and desire to play the game.
He is a good, smart player.
If we are going to two LB sets a good deal of the time, you need some speed as well, and he has that.
I don't blame anyone for trying to project how a draft will turn out. It's the nature of the beast I suppose. I however choose not to. I'm not the crystal ball type. Not only do fans often get it wrong, NFL GM's and the self appointed draft gurus do as well. Just looking at NFL GM's averages on picks shows you just how wrong experts can get draft picks.
All I'm willing to do is say how I feel it looks on the surface at the time of the picks without projections. On the surface, on paper it looks like a very solid draft to me. We addressed several positions of need be that at the starter or depth positions.
How it pans out in the long run is anyone's guess.
That is totally false, and utter horse crap. No, for many years many of the people on this site would have done better than the Browns management. Me included. I will say that Dorsey did better, I have no issues with this draft. Plus or minus there is an approach that can be seen.
I remember people ready to ride Dorsey out of town because he picked Mayfield over Darnold/Rosen and Ward over B.Chubb.
You can only draft talent, character and players who love football.
After you do so its totally up to the Coaches and the Program to develop them into successes. We have been hurt so far in the sense that WE HAVE NO PROGRAM... And until we do we will not be successful in developing our talent.
Lets hope we get it right now and we keep the majority of the staff together for a long time!
jmho - time to change this team and as we all crave it. Continuity is how we can become a team. Got to have it.
I too hope this new group is the group that can turn it around. And I certainly agree with you about the continuity issue. At the same time, looking back, other than elevating Shanahan to HC I really can't think of a single guy who has been here I would have stuck with for the long haul.
This year is like nothing the NFL has ever seen. The circumstances make it very difficult for a coaching staff to fully implement all new schemes, verbiage and playbooks. Nothing can replace the team working together in person.
I just hope the fans are realistic about that. Especially early in the season.
With all new coaches, systems and verbiage during the restrictions the virus will place on us, I simply won't allow myself to be disappointed that early on.
First, i only really knew the first two guys we selected. After that, only what i've really read on them.
But. I did do my homework on Jedrick Wills. I did my homework on the guys i deeemed to be the top 7 Left Tackle Candidates (Wills, Thomas, Wirfs, Becton, Josh Jones, Austin Jackson, and Ezra Cleveland). That's how i had the guys graded too.
So Wills was my top guy, and clearly my top guy. Thomas was the next tier. The third tier was Wirfs and Becton. And i was okay with the third tier guys at 10 (assuming that there were no character concerns i didn't know about with those top four guys).
What i saw in Wills was, certainly the best pass blocker in the draft. And that's what you want in your LT. He always seems to be a mauling runblocker who has good movement skills. People he blocked just always seemed to end up on the ground. He just plays mean.
I'm not that concerned the way others have been about the switch from right to left. No one could ever explain to me why folks don't seem to worry about the switch from left to right, the way that they seemed to be from right to left. There's no reason why learning how to switch your technique is any harder from one side to the other, it's just a difference in competition. And that has been changing as more DE's line up over the RT. Vers made the point that he might play next to a TE more often and not on an island as much as LTs do, but, watching his tape, i didn't seem to notice that.
Then i started noticing actual guys who actually played the position at a high level (like Joe Thomas and Ronnie Stanley) back me up. Stanley made the point that covering the blindside is a major responsibility, but, that's the responsibility that Wills had at Alabama anyway. Closer to the draft, as Joe Thomas talked about how Wills moved like an NFL tackle, i felt even better about what i saw. I'm ecstatic about the Wills pick. As far as i'm concerned, we got the best tackle in the draft.
As i watched Round 2, i saw the Penn State DE go, who was the top guy i wanted, and after him, Xavier McKinney and Grant Delpit were the next guys I keyed in on. McKinney went before our pick as well. So, i was standing at the TV praying for Delpit (with a backup prayer for Winfield), and we got the guy i wanted the most in Delpit. Guy's all over the field. A total playmaker. And he's not like Earl Little. He's not afraid to make a tackle. He missed a fair share of tackles this year. Some of that is due to the injury, some is due to poor technique. But, it's something that he isn't afraid to do. And hopefully, it's something he can improve on. Otherwise, he's versatile, good in coverage, and he can play the Deep FS position we need. So i was very excited about that.
After those two, i really didn't know the rest of the players. I like what i've read about them, and i enjoy their highlights (but anyone can look good in highlights).
So, we got the two guys i wanted to get in our first two picks. That rarely happens. So i'm ecstatic. Although, the guys i've wanted us to draft have often failed. (Corey Coleman, Justin Gilbert, Johnny Football, Brady Quinn, Sean Jones, can't think of any others off the top of my head). Hopefully i do better this time
You can only draft talent, character and players who love football.
Justin Gilbert disagrees with that.
I was listening to a Ringer podcast about the movie Draft Day .. anyways, they mentioned Gilbert and him being a top 10 CB bust of all time. Tough to argue with that.
I liked Mangini a lot - I thought that is where we missed out. He had nothing in the way of talent and yet we were winning games like against the Pats with a 3rd round rookie QB McCoy. also he won his last 4 games by running the ball but we then hired the Csar who was in a Resort holiday not football.
Jeannie was a control freak bully hoodie wanna be ...
I think he is by far the thing we disagree on the most since we’ve known each other ... and he went on to do literally almost nothing after he left here .. not even a hint at another HC job ...
I liked Mangini too. He had us playing tough disciplined football and we were winning games. We will never know how far he would have taken us but we were on the right track.
I think the 1st 2 games will tell us where the Browns are at. They could be 2-0 1-1 0-2. And they are North games. The Ravens will be a difficult match up. And the Bengals game isn't a automatic win. I saw where PFF had them as a potential playoff Team this year.
Mangini is was no better than Freddie Kitchens He's so loved on here by the 6% yet Mangini Couldn't even get a interview as a coordinator After the Browns fired him. He's a positon coach at best. He's tough guy act Here was phoney and transparent here
You make valid points about Mangini’s personality and lack of success after leaving Cleveland, but I’d still take him over Kitchens. IMO Kitchens was the worst head coach in our franchise’s history ... and I can’t believe I’m saying that after enduring Hue, Palmer, Shurmur, etc
Your valid on that . Kitchens was worse than Mangenius. In fact FK might be the worst top 5 all time in the NFL. He was so bad his 6 win season didn't feel Any better than the 0 16 season I remember a couple posters on here actually Wanted FK retained but they won't admit it.
Let me guess ... your referring to me ... if so ... ...
I love Freddie ... good peeps ... he was as bad of a coach as he is a good dude ... and he’s a really good dude ...
I never thought anyone could be as bas as him as a HC ... i didn’t think it was possible ... there’s not one aspect of coaching i thought he handled well ...
Let me guess ... your referring to me ... if so ... ...
I love Freddie ... good peeps ... he was as bad of a coach as he is a good dude ... and he’s a really good dude ...
I never thought anyone could be as bas as him as a HC ... i didn’t think it was possible ... there’s not one aspect of coaching i thought he handled well ...
Freddie wasn’t ready but KEV CAN ...
Yeah. I agree. Freddie is the worst Browns coach we've had since I've closely followed the team (Butch Davis)
I've never been more dissapoointed. We were a disorganized mess. It quickly became clear week 1. Last season felt awful. The playoff push was exciting. But overall, it was a clear let down. We could see the talent there, but it was just a total mess.
Although, I read somewhere that Chudzinskis team was a mess too. It was one year. I know there was some powerplay between Joe Banner and Lombardi. I think Joe Banner, had he been given the chance, would have done okay. Far better than Ray Farmer. But he's the one who picked Chud, so who knows
I have much higher hopes with Stefanski. Berry too. These guys just seem to have their act together. Of course, looking like they do might be different than actuallity.
That being said, I'm happy Freddie found a job. I hope all our coaches find a job. Hue Jackson too. I wish he could find a job. I don't think he's as bad a guy as some make him out to be. He deserves to be coaching football in some capacity.
Mike Pettine deserves a second shot at some point. His mistake was sticking with Jim ONeil. It's too bad because it was easy to see coming
There's no coach we've had where I've said, man he deserves a second chance except Pettine. Maybe Mangini, although he was terrible at drafting. I liked how Mangini coached, wish he could stay out of the team building process. But Pettine deserves another shot. More than Pat Shurmur did (I had to explain to Giant fans as soon as he was hired that he just wasn't cut out for the job)
I agree w/you about week 1 last year .. it was probably the most embarrassed I’ve been as a fan ... we were flat out unprepared and undisciplined. It was like the wheels were already off the wagon. Such a deflating moment.
I also agree though ... anyone who’s a head coach should be able to find a job at some level, even if it’s a position coach
People get hurt and also lose confidence...many a Brown Coach and staff were so scarred from being here they never went back to what they once loved. Mangini served as a consultant to several teams. Also if not the confidence thing. I believe it was said the only way he would go back to football is if he could be the Csar/GM type not a HC again.
He did so much with so little as a HC with us. I thought Daboll a much maligned coach here was way ahead of his time and he devised some pretty good game plans.
Just (very) casual considering what the results might be in Never-Ever Land if we were to hand this roster off to past-fail coaches. I think Pettine could do well; managing might be able to flog quite a bit out of these guys. Intensity matters. Freddy showed lack of it matters as well. The real interesting one is what palmer and his UFO mighthave been able to produce with a viable NFL group, which I consider this to be.
It's not a crime that Freddie failed as a HC. Right now his forte is that of a position coach and there's nothing wrong with that. Some guys coach 30-40 years as a PC coach because that may be all they want or what they are best at. There are many examples too numerous to mention but Bud Carson, Buddy Ryan, Norv Turner come to mind. Freddie is a good guy and I wish him nothing but the best.
How is that on Bake .. if KJ allowed that its on KJ ...
Based off 18’s result Freddie was a good hire ... i don’t get it .. he put in a system in 18 Bake THRIVED IN .... and because of that O the Isle was hopping and we were all full of optimism for the future ...
How was KJ or anyone suppose to know someone would perform a lobotomy on Freddie and take out everything he knew about designing and calling plays ...
I liked Mangini a lot - I thought that is where we missed out. He had nothing in the way of talent and yet we were winning games like against the Pats with a 3rd round rookie QB McCoy. also he won his last 4 games by running the ball but we then hired the Csar who was in a Resort holiday not football.
jmho
Mangina was the biggest piece of trash ever to hold a coaching position of any type in Cleveland, let along being in charge of the draft. Absolute trash, filth, a disgusting sub human species.... you know, the coach who would have players spy on each others and played favorites with his players...
Brian Dumboll was a worse OC than Mangini as A HC. But EM was proof positive he was,a poor Judge of talent and assistant coaches. EM tried to be another Belichek and the lockeroom Found it a joke
Dumboll gets so much love on here. And For what....cause he marched out Robert Royal And a Olineman and the Easter Bunny 12 yards away from the center in a formation Dumboll drew up in crayon that morning That hardly qualifies him as a genius. How many OC jobs has he held since then ?
When they speak of highly innovative offensive Minds around the league Dumboll is never Brought up.....
Daboll gets so much love on here...lol you totally lost me there cause I think I was the only one who like him so you lost big time Cred with that statement.
Where I became a fan of Daboll was with several things.
1. His handling of McCoy as a rookie.
2. He was the guy who established that weird formation...OTs out wide, used against the Bengals for a TD where Hue actually fell in love with it and would show it sometimes but didn't have the guts to commit to a series. Just google McCoy TD pass to Royal I think it was their only TD.
3. Also in a goal to go situation he did a trick play with Northcutt getting the handoff...loved the design. Our talent level pretty much sucked all the way around and I thought he got the most out of it and the 4 games which we ran the ball exclusively and won I thought was amazing, it screwed us with the draft pick next season but it still was a great thing to watch.
It was our GM who screwed us - as he didn't do his job. Won't go further than that.
jmho won't take this much further as it has nothing to do on our draft. Just explaining why I liked Daboll and Mangini.
I thought Daboll (and Mangini) handled McCoy really poorly? The treated him like dirt until he had to start. Went beyond just tough love, I believe. I remember reading that from one of the excerpts from the fringe player that came through here during the Mangini days.
And yet Daboll was praised by the main stream sports media as handling McCoy with prowess. Didn't hear this dirt thing. Just be aware of disgruntled players.
anyway here and gone just explaining why I liked both.
Wow, I never read or heard that. I can understand wanting to toughen up a kid BUT that is a little much. I dont know how many QB's he could treat like that now a days and get away with it. How would they have handled it if Colt had blasted him in the face. My guess would be Daboll would get canned not the player. In any event Colt has stayed in the league for many years now so maybe it did help him some.
Wow, I never read or heard that. I can understand wanting to toughen up a kid BUT that is a little much.
This is really the crux of it. When the articles mention other players just kinda looking at what's happening and either being shocked or shaking their heads, you know it's bad.
`1. yahoo sports 2. If you read into that it was not during the regular season games it was in the training as it was a crash course for him to become the starter.
3. If you read into that you would see it stated Just hang in there.'" McCoy did, putting up solid numbers after taking over as the team's starter six weeks into the 2010 season.
After which his demise started once Pat Shurmer took over.
But I know its just me. Its obvious what was going on and it was in his training...not regular season games!
I can understand a coach being tough, like a Parcells, Shula or Lombardi to name a few but what I read about Colt is a bit much. There is a limit before it becomes abusive.
I do remember reading this stuff about Daboll/McCoy at that time ... that coaching staff seemed like jerks. Re-reading that article it seems worse than I remember though.
Keep your eyes on him, follow him, then knock the snot out of him if he bolts.
I like LSU players. Some schools usually have players with "grit". LSU is one of those.
You don't play at LSU unless you are a leather neck. I don't have any proof, just my opinion.
I think Phillips was more drafted to meet Dobbins/Ingram in the hole, and that someone else more nimble can spy Lamar.
perhaps Delpit?
Maybe so. I do know he is fast. His 40 was 4.6....maybe not the fastest, but his shot shuttle was 4.3. That is really good in short space. But, you might be right, he might not be the spy. Clean up the holes tackle to tackle.
Either way, I am pretty happy we were able to get him. I think he was one of those choices where we broke a few hearts when we plucked him off other teams boards.
I don't see using a guy whose strength is playing center field, and who has issues tackling, against a guy like Lemar Jackson.
Sendajo is a hard hitter at S, and Joseph is very good in the box. I think that we will probably play one of these 2 against Jackson. It would make more sense.
I don't see using a guy whose strength is playing center field, and who has issues tackling, against a guy like Lemar Jackson.
Sendajo is a hard hitter at S, and Joseph is very good in the box. I think that we will probably play one of these 2 against Jackson. It would make more sense.
I didn't know he played center field. I thought he was a linebacker. Maybe I am just picking nits in the way you describe him, sorry if so.
To 4lifes comments, yes, 4.6 in the 40 isn't all that fast, yet respectable. 4.3 in the short shuttle is. That is the key time for a linebacker IMO.
Maybe I am old school, or just old fashioned, but to me a backers first job is to stop the run, not run step for step with some back or slot guy 35 yards down the field.
I think Phillips was brought in in hopes that he has the talent to become a starter and then upgrade the goal to be a Pro Bowler.
As far as our Game Plan against the Ravens and Steelers for our Division goals I don't think anyone was drafted with a specific role in a game plan that is not conceived yet.
jmho. I think it will be more Garrett and Vernon boxing Lamar in and make him do what he can up the middle where he will get a lot of hats on him.
Add Larry in that mix those are some big guys that are quick and fast!
I said previously that I feel Phillips will become a very good player for us. He is a good tackler, plays sideline to sideline, hustles and comes from a winning program which I feel is important. I don't think it's just a coincidence that we drafted good players in positions of need from LSU not to mention having JL and OBJ here already.
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