cut sendejo.

our defense.....just couldnt stop anything today, even though we didn't give up the usual amount of points. even still, the game was winnable.

Baker mayfield actually had a solid game, but man the OL and his receivers absolutely failed him today.

Jarvis had like 3-4 drops, including a TD. Njoku dropped an easy catch that would've kept a drive alive.

Bryant also fumbled in the 1st quarter.

our defense is injury ridden, and we have a lot of guys starting that wouldn't start on any other team. but still, they got manhandled at the LoS.

we got manhandled at the LoS on both sides of the ball. just straight up bullied.

one team looked like a bad weather team, and the other looked like they play in a dome 8 games a season.

i really dislike i how weak we looked at the point of attack. and i want to re-emphasize this:

Baker showed up to play. pretty much the only one to do so, but this is a team loss.

im looking at Stefanski and Woods at this loss.

all 3 losses so far this season, we couldn't score a TD at all. When we lose, it's the most embarrassing way imaginable. we got to get healthy, and fast.

oh yea, should've resigned schobert. cause our LBs are hot garbage, and there's no way to defend the crap we see from them week in and week out.

I'm curious if someone would like to look it up...

How many punts have we received in the last 3 games?

We will get killed by the Ravens and Steelers. We need to aspire to be like them. Another game where our defense did not allow a punt the entire game.

5-3 going into the bye with the schedule we have remaining is not a bad spot to be in.

Our defense folded. We had no chance at stopping the run and Carr thrives on shorts passes. A recipe for disaster (we also dropped an easy INT that would have been six).

It seemed like going into the game we took passing off the table because of the weather and then later in the game when we had to pass we were able.

Ok were 5-3 two weeks to get completely healthy, Chubb, Tiller and Hooper will be back maybe we beef up the D before the trade deadline

Just a Bad day

Can't wait to get Chubb back

A lot of drops today

Defense SMH

Joe Woods Needs to look into what he is doing

No Myles Garrett

Kareem Hunt is very good but will be even better with Chubb

Going into the bye feeling ok with where we are except the Defense Please Berry do Something

Overall OL did ok no sacks and 4.6 YPC

They punted once and this is the NFL anyone can beat anyone on any given Sunday look at the Bengals beating Tennessee today ..

Frustration squared.

LOS loss. Time of possession loss.

Drops.

The one thing that stood out to me was our linebacker play.

Horrible read/react. Taki? Wilson?

I mean damn make a damn play.

In the end the drops killed us. But you don't win weather games like this when you get beat up-front.

This game was winnable but not the way we played.

Out defense is bad.

It may as well not even take the field without Garrett. For real.

Ward did make a nice play stripping the Ball but everyone stood and watched the Raiders recover it

- The defense is absolutely atrocious. Only forced 1 punt in the last 8 quarters of football.

- Landry with a couple of big drops. Bryant with the fumble. Njoku with a big drop.

- The Browns are a very average team that will beat the bad and mediocre teams.

- The Browns never win the statement games. Could've moved to 6-2 and solidified a playoff spot, instead they lose and more questions are raised.

- The defense needs completely overhauled.

- Killed in the time of possession.

- I never thought I'd be so bored watching a 5-2 Browns team. Never felt like they were in this one emotionally.

- This team really needs the bye right now.

One of those days where we couldnt catch a break ... nor did we have much will power to stop their run

Sadly, I don’t see any easy answers in that regard. Teams that can be physical with us thus far have dominated us

In hindsight, we could have played the hurt up offense all second half, at least to shake things up.

I still laugh that some people were glad we didn't make Schoebert one of the highest paid linebackers in the league.

Bottom line is we should have, it's not my money. People just need to let the whole overpaid thing go.

You say willpower, I say we don't have enough good players.

They are the Clevelan Browns. No D.

The whole team was flat, outside of Hunt and Baker at times. It looked like nobody really wanted to be there, they were all going through the motions, and like they didn't care about winning. I felt like I was watching the hopeless teams from before this season. It sucked.

well, at least we go our 'W' back at some point; I was happy to retire that t-shirt.

How many teams have a shut down corner and dominant pass rusher?

I tend to be weird and listen to Jim & Doug and watch with a delay. I can't remember how many times the past couples weeks Jim D said "almost intercepted by the Browns. Last week Mitchell & this week Harrison I think.

Also does anyone else think we tend to tackle too much by just lowering our shoulder trying to bump the player down. I swear teams must average 5 yards per play after contact.

It is a game of inches sometimes. On the fumble, the lone Raider recovered among 3-4 Browns.

This may sound stupid but the Browns looked like they thought they could just show up and win.

Not many. But many teams have above average players as depth. We have linebackers that are all backup quality and one of the worst players in the league at safety..

There's a coaching aspect to this.

To some degree, yes. But if you don't have the players then it's hard to do what you want. Getting killed at the line of scrimmage versus a team missing two starting tackles is not a coaching issue, it's a talent issue.

Drops killed drives.

Fumble killed a drive.

Penalties on Wills killed field position three times.

They had back ups all over the line, yet when Garret went out they could do nothing.

We have no linebackers that are good. Berry needs to rethink the value of good linebackers. We haven't had a stud for years. We need an enforcer in the middle. Once the ball passes the line of scrimmage, we are cooked.

Our running game is still decent, but with Hooper, Teller, and Chubb, it can be dominate.

Defense lost this game

When is Chubb coming back?

There is a chance he is back for our next game.

Correct. Possible, not necessarily likely.

and Freddie pops a cold one; toasts Hue.

That's what happens when you have no defense,

It turns out that it's hard to score when you don't have the ball.

What was the TOP discrepancy?

Nail. Head.

I didn't see them do anything when MG was in to be honest. Very disappointing all round. Good time to have a week off.

I think there was one in the first quarter

In 30 seasons?

And that's a talent thing?

LOL

So we've had many, many seasons where we didn't have 1 all pro caliber player on the D much less two, and this has never happened?

Sorry, it's not all talent.

I'm not calling for Woods head but he's gone the entire season without anyone looking at him.

You have some good players on D. I probably count 5 that would start on most other teams. You went up against a very average QB and RB today and they made you look foolish.

And that's all talent?

Not buying it.

LVR - 37:43

CLE - 22:17

This defenxe depends too much on the Dline getting home. The linebackers are horrible

What's nutty is that LVR only had 7 drives.

For comparison, The Rams (16 drives) and Miami (14 drives) each had more drives today than the Browns and Raiders combined.

The linebackers are the main problem. We can't get pressure on short passes like the Raiders killed us with today. Their receivers did nothing. They killed us on passes to the tight end and screens to the running backs.

We also had no chance at stopping the run. Their offensive line destroyed us.

I don't usually talk about drops by receivers all that much, but man, we dropped a lot of passes today. Njoku dropped a easy 1st down pass. Hunt near the end of the game...and Jarvis...he dropped more today then he probably has the rest of his games put together.

One was a sure TD and one could have been a TD...we can call that one a push.

Half way point in the season, 5-3. I'll take it. I think we have a shot at 4-5 more wins, and that is basically with no defense.

Hilarioulsy though Stafanski has almost won as many games as both of them through his first 8.

This pile of bile, on the tile for a while, I'll file under no-smile for a whole mile, and Put on my Nikes, don't grab a pike, Yikes! take my trike bike, and don't be like mike, (the little tike), I'll go on strike

Until I, smite some hittites and Jebusites,

Albeit, a weird, defiant, Jon Merrick, forfeited his generic, english, asteroid, to a special medium, comedian, not a centrist, dentist,
without exception, lacking affection, and an evil devilish, benign, stein, got taken by a genie, who was teenie weenie for a thesis to the terminator,
with Festive, merriment in Georgia, with receeding, preceeding, entrails, and a spelling diotride of conceding, senior, impoverished, nepotism, Rendering, hysterical, hernia, mesotheleioma
deception, recession, impression, suspending the blending and bending opening; strengthening the loosening, of the insane, bleeding membrane, as a Merriam Webster Revision of a Deisel Mermaid; to relish an elite epitaph, with precision, on the extension of a tension, fencing decision,.. spelling depression at Meijers with commercial elephantism
To accentuate, the envisioned Jesuits effective affection exception, of stein thesis jellies, embellished relish hemmorhoid and keeping, steaming, weeping, peeping, sleeping, mnemomic Bernie in service,
to weild, entreating conceit!

But the nice ice mice lice suffice to entice, once or twice, maybe thrice the vice of rice in a vice

to keep alive the hive jive drive, and Thrive a shive to dive five, give live live live, and let live Dominoes,
and Katies' ties, accidental time line lime were quite quiet,
with the nitey lite tite white lite mite, nine pine include attitude shine directive
for mighty, alrighty righty titey of the almighty
that scrbble, dribble, is drivel, or accidential

Advise the vise guise disguise, with the squishey dishey, wishey washey, life fife, prince price, rinse and repeat;
admire the hire fire practice discreet distance, fissure tissue pillattes lighter,
NO Brainer, insurance, Maine, poisoner business police, licensed chisel,
direct lies dies, and dies wrinkle spine, incite, Lucite, nubile futile wife,
swipe, twine, irate, thief, glacier, pliers
Dianne's Diatride
pipe diaper alive displeased

... index bacterial displeasd is watching this game,
security, about as much of a point.

GO BROWNS!!!

Get well soon, everybody, including Myles apparently, Oy Vey!

Our linebackers are killing this team. Our defense would improve greatly if we traded for 2 average lb's. Since ours suck so bad... our D breaks and gets gassed and our offense would have a chance to take the field.

I think I counted 6 drops today? Disgusting.

Yeah, very out of character for Jarvis. Broken ribs are probably playing a factor but I know he won't use it as an excuse.

And I'm pretty sure most on the board would have been happy if someone told us before the season started we would be 5-3 at the bye. Never the less, today's loss still stings as this game just felt so winnable and there were so many missed opportunities. Oh well, on to the next.

I think this is the third game this season it has been out of character for Landry to drop passes.

I recall a couple drops, but nothing like today?

we really need chubb back. hunt is amazing, but we miss that 1-2 punch to really control the flow of the game.

For sure, Hunt is good really good but he's no Chubb. Chubb is an elite talent, a special player that you just can't replace.

And Teller.

Two guys that have been quite bad for us IMO: Larry O and Claiborne ... they don’t give us much

Then when you couple that with a horrid LB and S corp ... and then Myles goes out .. that ain’t good

Yes, been disappointed in Larry, and he's one of my favorite players.

I'm still not convinced these guys are being put in a position to succeed.

Ogunjobi hasn't been very good since his rookie year. He's a league average starter.

Jacksonville is 1-6

The sting is in what to expect two weeks out. The teams who beat us didn't;t expose some mysterious hidden weakness. The showed us rife with holes to take advantage of and we are not closer to Woods figuring out and shutting off the gashing. How often did the run the middle today? Did they need to do much more? Expect more of the same. No lead is safe with this defensive group as it is played.

Beat the trade deadline, please!

1. Njoku can leave now. Tired of him. I give Landry a pass on the drops because it’s out of character for him. Njoku just blows.

2. LBs are lousy, Sendejo made a couple of nice tackles today, but still dreadfully slow in coverage.

3. Ref missed an obvious facemask on a Hunt play down the sideline, near our bench. The zebra down there was looking right at it.

4. Refs aren’t why we lost though. Too many drops, not many stops.

5. Remember off-season when some of us worried about a dearth of LB talent on the roster?

Yet some said linebackers aren’t important in a Joe Woods defence. And now we have what we have.

6. Vernon has a couple of sacks, which was good to see.

I’d have felt much better at 6-2 going into the bye, but 5-3 is pretty damn good for us.

That and Joe Schobert has been really bad this year.

Per PFF:

Overall grade = 38.6
Coverage grade = 29.8
He's ranked 70th of 80 of all LBs

Watching Sendejo try to cover Ruggs on that almost TD was like watching a sloth chase a rabbit.

Yikes.

I will also. A new coaching staff, injuries, new faces behind the face masks. I expected a loss, not sure why but I did.

Not having Chubb, Hooper, OBJ, Tretter fighting a knee issue, Hunt fighting a groin injury on the Offense.

5-3 is better then 3-5. This team needs time to gel. Things will come along. I really hope we don't see the fall apart as in the past.

If we do, I don't expect it to be much.

Face it, we are more than 1-2 players away on D.

I don't know how much a player or two at mid season is going to improve our position all that much, especially long term.

Stefanski and Berry aren't under pressure to win it all this year, so they aren't in trouble. I don't think Depodesta is eager to trade off several decent draft choices for a few band-aids.

We may make a play for the Minnesota safety if the price is right, but you have to remember that Berry and Depo are very much in favor of building through the draft and holding on to draft choices to use in the draft.

If we needed one player to plug and play, they would probably make a move, but we need 3-4 players on D this year. Next year we gain Greedy and Delpit, so things will look different before we select some defensive players in the draft.

JMO

More likely than not according to Stefanski ...

I will take Myles Jack and Anthony Harris what say you?

J/c

Another thing that has seemed to haunt us: dropped INT chances. We seem to have at least 2-3 a game

j/c:

--Disappointing loss. Baltimore and Pittsburgh are really good teams. The Raiders are average, at best.

--The worst thing I am seeing is that we aren't physical enough. We get bullied at times. The Raiders OL beat up our front seven despite being banged-up.

--We did have too many drops, but I bet only two will be counted as drops. I mean, you can say that Landry dropped that one when he got sandwiched by two defenders in the end zone, but that was not a smart throw. And again, Baker put another receiver at risk w/an ill advised throw. The diving one in the end zone was a really hard catch. Landry did drop an easy one and so did Njoku.

--With that said, Baker did not lose this game. He didn't do enough to win it, but this loss was not on him.

--I think the biggest factors in the loss was that they were more physical than us. Also, the wind was a big factor and I think we only had one possession in the third quarter when we had the wind at our back.

Yeah, there’s a discouraging theme ... teams that can bully us basically pin us down and make us useless

We need to get better up front defensively .. at LB defensively ... and at S defensively haha

I was really happy to see signs of life from Vernon (2 sacks, even!), but I think both of those came on the same drive (?), and otherwise, nothing.

Sendejo did make 2 difficult open-field tackles, but was otherwise playing his usual terrible.

But the guy that's really starting to get under my skin is Njoku. Dude absolutely SUCKS at making the big catch when it matters. Ball clanged right off his chest/hands. And he's out there demanding a trade.

I don't know how well/poorly Mayfield played. Tough to tell. I do know everyone around him was pretty bad. I saw our vaunted Oline get handled, overall. The weather played to our strength, but instead we never really got our run game rolling, and they absolutely imposed their will on us. No passing attack, they just slowly marched down the field. Browns are still good at pulling guys out of their ruts.

I'm hoping we can take max advantage of the bye, get healthy and perhaps blame this on being banged up.

I don't think our OL got handled. They played pretty well other than Wills having three penalties.

The thing I'm really struggling with us that one of the teams decided to pound the ball and had great success, on a day that made it hard to throw... and that team wasn't us. Raiders D is very mediocre, and our run game is still tops in the league. Why are we struggling so much? Hunt is not your average backup. Dude has 1 more rushing title than Chubb... so why are we thinking we'll magically be ok when he's back?

I'm holding off on saying anything about Baker... I'm not sure how I feel about his performance. I'm really disappointed in our Oline.

I forgot one thing. Our offense and Baker sure did look a lot better today w/out OBJ holding them back.

Why is that ? Seems a substance for the years past. This Team just can't get physical.

Ohhhh noooo I'm hearing a song, cant get it out of my head now. Dang it. Olivia Newton-John

Not sure if you saw it, but I posted a stat that the Browns earlier this week that the Browns are facing more 7 men in the box sets than any other team in the league. Teams are gearing up to stop the Browns running game and daring them to beat them though the air. That might answer your question, at least partially.

LOL....I hated that song.

Wills three penalties were all at bad times, turning short yardage into long yardage on third down. I believe that if the defense would have got one stop at least, we could have had a different outcome. When the opponent has 7 to 9 minute drives, you will probably lose.

This defense needs to regroup and make some changes. What changes? I don't know. Our LBs, including Mack are horrible. I think the rookie who hurt his knee was the most effective against the run, and he seemed to sniff out screens pretty good.

Disagree on a couple of the Landry ones. The dropped TD was a perfect throw and should have been an easy catch. The one in the end zone at the end was also a perfect throw with Baker trying to make something happen. We absolutely needed a TD there. There wasn't anything ill advised about that throw, but I don't blame Landry for dropping it.

I agree the Raiders are an average team and losing to teams like this is very disappointing. Not sure how you ever get good when you let a team like that come into your building and push you around.

I think that was a great throw by Baker on the one they overruled. It was also a great effort by Landry. It was good coverage. On the other throw, I said ill-advised because he was double covered. It was an accurate throw, but it is kinda hard to blame Landry for not catching it. He got killed.

I did forget that Hunt had an easy drop, though.

We had a chance to make a statement at home in inclement weather against a 3-3 team. And we did.

I was thinking about that earlier. A team from Las Vegas travels east in a bad-weather game and they seem more suited to it than we were.

We both agree that we don't blame Landry for dropping that last one, but we needed our QB to make something happen and he did. That's what we are always asking for and he put it on him. Landry catches that and we have three timeouts and could possibly get one more drive and tie with a FG (probably not with this putrid D).

This is the first loss this year I don't blame the QB.

Succinct, direct, and true.

I don't blame Baker for any of the losses. We lost as a team today. And we got murdered by Baltimore and Pittsburgh.

Today's loss was the most deflating for me because of how we lost. They were more physical and I don't think they are a very physical team.

I thought Goodson was supposed to be physical and good against the run? He got bullied today. Hell, Sendejo was better than BJ.

we’ve heard for years the same old cliche: We want to be a dominant home field team ... we want to play AFC north football in the inclement weather ... etc

Well, today we got manhandled by a team from LAS VEGAS in a “graupel” storm

LOL...........what was up w/that graupel crap? I never once heard anyone say that in all the decades I lived in Ohio.

jc -

Something I was thinking about today...

It's really disheartening to watch teams like the Ravens add players like Peters and Calais and the DE they just traded for while the Browns stand pat and do nothing. Every new regime that comes in here always thinks they are smart by playing the long game as if if it's some type of scientific way to do it. I feel like I want to yell like Apollo Creed in Rocky III "there is no tomorrow!". You strike when the iron is hot. Too many things change from year to year that negate long term plans.

I hate when people say the Browns are a couple of off seasons away. That's only if everything outside of the Browns stays the same while the Browns get better. It's such flawed logic.

The thing is we only gave up 16 points today. We should have been able to score more than 16 points with or without this weather.

We couldn't get the ball.

And I don't think it's just a weather-thing. It seems so often Browns failure is attitudinal. When they show up to play, they can play with anyone. When they don't they get pushed around. Today they folded in the face of a mediocre team who wanted it more, IMHO.

The weather was The Browns best defensive player.

I don’t get the comments about the OL.

It was the Defense that was beaten to a pulp.

Your right. I just checked they beat us by 15 minutes in TOP. That won't get it done.

we had SIX drives ... I’ve seen teams have that in nearly a quarter lol

jc

I felt like the playcalling was craptastic.

The first half we mostly tried to run.

And they stacked the box.

Should have been more passes called to keep the D honest.

Baker can throw on a rope so why not more 10-15 yard throws?

I know weather was a thing, but we played way too conservative.

we are 5-3 and should be 6-2 if we had a half-way decent lb core.

Perhaps we let the weather dictate our offense too much .. or maybe we have no deep threat without OBJ. I don’t know. It seemed like the old days today when we were playing in a box that didn’t go past 15 yards

The oline did their job. We averaged 4.6 ypc. Baker was kept clean when he was in the pocket. We only had six possessions. The only issue I have is the three penalties by Wills.

Back to the possessions
One ended in a fumble after driving to around the thirty
One ended in a Njoku drop on 3rd and ten. He had enough yards for the 1st down plus room to run well inside Raiders territory.
Two ended in field goals one of which we had a dropped TD on 3rd down.
One drive ended on a missed 32(?) yard field goal.
One drive I believe was a 3 and out.

Defensively we were horrible against the run. We gave up 208 on 45 carries for 4.6 ypc. Our dline was constantly being pushed back. Our linebackers gave up a ton of yac. We didn’t give up many big plays, just a steady amount of 5-9 yards at a time. Very frustrating.

Myles has been great all year but his offsides penalty was a killer. We had them at 2nd and goal from the 8 and he fell for a lame attempt to draw us off with 2 seconds to go in the quarter.

Vernon did show up with two sacks. Ward played well as did our other two corners.

The Myles penalty was frustrating. Carr yelled out something like "we have to hurry." I knew it was a ploy because they were going in the direction where the wind was playing havoc, so no way were they going to snap that ball.

It is possible that our play calling was too conservative. From what I can tell is that we ran a lot of short to intermediate routes. The wind looked very bad and the Raiders didn’t throw long either.

I hated to even mention it because Myles haas played so well and has cut out most of his penalties.

Everyone makes mistakes. Myles gets his share of off-sides penalties. Most premiere pass rushers do.

I'm still deflated. That was a disheartening loss.

It was a confirmation game, the Browns can’t cover up their defensive weaknesses.

They will win some more games, but it will be a struggle against another good team.

I have only one post-game thought on this date:

If I were the opposing OC, I'd game-plan to take a knee on 1st and 2nd down...

...because 3rd & long is the 'kiss of death' for any Browns defense, dating all the way back to 1999. Such is as it ever was, and such is what we saw today.

Teams could find themselves at 3rd & 48... and a running back could convert on a draw play.

This team can be so frustrating. Everyone knew that the weather was going to dictate the game plan(s)- and yet we allowed LVR to run our own game upon us... in our own back yard. Absolutely unacceptable.

A CLE team should NEVER lose a weather-based home game.
If you can't exploit a built-in home-team advantage, you don't deserve a place on the post-season dance card.

This team needs a ton of work.
Post-season is still a mirage, as far as I'm concerned.

It really is, and we've been hearing it since the return. Like there's going to be steady progress over the course of a couple seasons and then we'll be ready to play with the big boys.

1. Drops, drops, drops
2. Without OBJ, I saw no motion, we really will miss him
3. Hate to complain about refs, but if Renfrow’s catch was a TD, so was Landry’s
4. Anyone else notice our playcalling wasnt very smooth today? We were pushing the play clock alot today.
5. Hunt is no Chubb, hope Chubb is back for our next game.

First half of the season is done, we are 5-3. If you would have told me this, I would have taken it, If we can go 5-3 in the 2nd half of the season 10-6.

If you can't run, and you can't pass, and you can't stop the other teams run and pass, often times you lose the game. The end. Penalties, drops, getting run over, etc.

Hunt is hurt. The whole team is banged up.

Some local weather forecaster was on tv, localy here in OHIO abour 3 years ago, first time I ever heard that stupid word!

Probably made up by some liberal, elitest, overeducated, white coat wearing, degree holder, who thinks they know better than everyone else,
because, in all these years,
it's called, sleet, freezing rain, hail, or, a windy exceptionaly cold day for November 1st,

but graupel sounds like the noise someone makes who throws up in their mouth.

Dude had a rushing title on a really good team ... Chubb is a Beast ... he makes his own yards despite a mediocre line, zero passing offense, and poor coaching.

Chubb will magically change our rushing game.

The most boring game I think I've ever watched... Neither team was very good..

DO2, one of the pregame shows showed this stat. During our games with Chubb in the lineup we were averaging about 225 yards per game rushing. Since his injury we are averaging 90. The loss of our right guard is a factor but we really miss Nick.

This was a weather game. Wind gusting to 50 mph. The first field goal try went sideways.

Clearly the team that could run the ball and control the clock would win.

They enforced their will on us. Drove us back off the LOS. It was depressing.

They did to us what we should have done to them.

If we can't find a way to get the defense off the field; we will go no where.

It is hard to say if the issue is scheme related or talent.
When you see the DL getting pushed back? You think talent.

Taki was supposed to be a attack run defender? He doesn't seem to know which gap to go through.

Wilson does not seem to react well off the snap. He seems to hesitate on his first step causing him to be late.

The only player that seems to be getting better on defense is Harrison.

I hate losing like that. It was a very frustrating game to watch. I hate getting pushed around.
=========================================

We had chances on offense. We did not make the plays that were there.

The bye week is coming at the right time. This team needs the break. We need to get Chubb, Teller, Greedy, and Hooper back.

If Myles is lost for any time then we are in trouble.

Right now I am unsure what KS and Woods are going to do?

The three loses have a common theme. Physicality on defense. That will give fuel to the teams we will play.

If we can not fix it. We will get exploited.

Full disclosure - I did not the entire 2nd half, so I may have missed some things. My take:

- I expected more points. As both Baker and Carr can zip the ball, with little air under the passes, I did not think the wind would make that much of a difference. Missed that one.

- I am having a hard time figuring this game out. I think our D played terrible - missed tackles and getting man-handled at the LOS especially. But, at the end of the day, we only gave up 16 points. They had what, one punt? And only 16 points? A lot of long drives.

- Of course, 16 points is a lot when you're putting up 6. When they got the TD to go up 7 in the 3rd quarter, I felt like the game was out of reach.

- I have been critical of Baker (when it has been appropriate IMO) but I will say I think his ball placement was pretty good yesterday. This was one of those games where we did not look prepared, where we were out-coached, and at times did not look interested in being there. But I think Bake came to play. He seemed intent on showing that the Cincy game was not a fluke.

- A lot of drops. A lot. I'm not one of those who will call out a drop by one guy and ignore a drop by another (apologies - the election is getting to me). I saw drops by Hunt, Njoku, and a couple by Landry. I know there were others. The one TD Landry dropped (the one that was overturned, not the one where he was sandwiched between 3 guys) is one he normally catches. The overturn was correct.

- Was a little surprised the LV TD was upheld. But it did not move as much as Landry's.

- I do not think the LV TD that was overturned was incorrect. It looked to me when his toes came down they were on the white. The pic that showed the green was before the toes came down.

- Two face mask penalties early negated good plays by the D. Neither intentional, but both face masks. LV got away with one, on Hunt I think.

- I have been really critical of Sandejo. In the spirit of fairness (even in the face of the election) I will point out a couple of open field tackles he made. I still would prefer he not take any snaps, but he made a couple of plays.

- Bryant. I know there are some on here who have deemed him a stud and a future top-5 TE. Not saying he won't get there, but I am not seeing that now. Yes, he has made some plays. But when he makes a mistake, it always seems to be at a critical time. Missed block, a dropped pass. And don't forget we lose against Cincy if Landry does not scream at him to line up properly at the end of the game. Yesterday it was the fumble. A nice drive going. The hit was not even all that violent. To me he seems like a tweener. Too slow to be a WR and not physical enough to be a TE. There may be a reason he was available in the 4th.

- After the Pitt game, I called this game out as a sure loss. Needing a TD with 11 seconds left in the game to beat a 1-win team by 3 did not change that in my eyes.

- I have accepted what we (IMO) are. We can beat bad teams. We are not in the same league as the good teams. We have a chance against the middling teams as long as they are not mean. Physical teams have their way with us. Pitt showed that, and LV followed that script.

- After the Pitt game, I felt that there were 4 sure losses left on the schedule. LV, Tenn, Pitt, and Balt. And two sure wins (NYJ, Jax). The other four games could go either way. We seemed to split with Cincy no matter what (we barely escaped that, so good). Both Philly and NYG took Pitt well into the 4th quarter while our game with Pitt was over before the half. So I see neither as a gimme. Houston - who knows. I see 7-8 wins.

- In light of that, I would be very careful at the trade deadline. I think we need draft capital more than an 8-game rental. Someone we can sign for a few years makes more sense. Of course, for all I know we made some deals last night. I did not check.

- I think with the FO and coaches we are on the right path. We have too many holes in the D to make it to the playoffs. Maybe Chubb and Teller can make the difference.

I agree ... Bryant had a very crucial fumble. That was a game changer IMO. We had momentum and could have struck first in a low scoring affair (we still were up 3-0 ... but it could have been 7 or 10)

In terms of looking ahead:

Houston ... this is a true 50/50 game IMO. Much like Indy. We better get healthy and prepared.
Philadelphia ... another 50/50 game. I know they stink, but they have talent
at Jacksonville ... SHOULD be a win
at Tennessee ... probably a loss
Baltimore ... probably a loss
at NY Giants ... another 50/50 game. Their offense is not THAT bad and it’ll be bad conditions.
at NY Jets ... SHOULD be a win
Pittsburgh ... we MAY be facing their backups


Putting all of it together, let’s assume we win the ones we should and go 2/3 on the toss ups:

That puts us at 9-6 heading into the Steelers game. Something tells me we’ll have to win that game to get in the playoffs.

They only scored 16 points because that's how long it took to march down the field at 4.5/play.

Raiders did exactly what they wanted, and we only presented a speed bump, if that, at times.

I'm really surprised to see that we had a 4.5 average. From watching the game, we didn't seem to get much push, and Hunt was getting hit at or right before the LoS. There were also quite a few successful arm tackles at LoS that Hunt usually bulldozes through.

I thought Hunt ran real hard, but it was just very tough sledding against a mediocre run defense. Our run D was rated much higher coming into the game, and we barely slowed them down.

That was a difficult game to watch for all of us who grew up watching one of the more physical franchises in the NFL. Baltimore definitely took our culture when they took our team.

As far as the game goes, our guys need to take a good, hard look in the mirror, and confront how soft they are on defense. When you're on a defensive line and you still don't make a similar impact as Myles Garrett on one leg, you need to step up your game.

Poor gap discipline and poor integrity at the point of attack on the DL in the middle.

Defense needs to be a huge priority in the draft and FA this offseason.

Speaking of Myles, I hope he's okay.

We need to heal up during this bye week. This game was one where we desperately missed Chubb. Hunt is definitely good and it makes for a great 1-2 punch, but there were plays I saw where Hunt picked a spot and ran it to get a short or decent gain. That is his style and it works sometimes. On those same plays this past game, though, I saw a couple times where gaps opened up more as the play developed that would have been huge gains. That is more Chubb's style and I think it would have had much better returns, especially in this weather.

This would have been the perfect game to run Chubb at them for 3 quarters and then put Hunt in the entire 4th. That's also assuming that our guys would have caught the ball to keep the defense honest, which also didn't happen.

Good point about gap integrity. Our DTs were soft, soft, soft. They either got blown back or lost any integrity in their gaps ... how many times did they shoot up field and have no awareness.

One play that epitomized our defense ... 3rd and 18 and they run a screen ... Clayborne (IIRC ... maybe it was Vernon) just had no awareness and rushed the passer ... then we had NO pursuit and the guy gets the 1st down. Just inexcusable

Yeah, I agree. Recognition is a huge problem with our defense. I feel like often times - and your example of screens is a good one - they get overly aggressive and leave their teammates out to dry by not recognizing the play and doing their job.

j/c

Jatvis dropped (9) points in the end zone today. He's not DPJ, he SHOULD HAVE CAUGHT THOSE THROWS...period. I love the guy...want to keep him...but that's 9 points plus PATs. Those two drops were darn near equal to turnovers in a 30+ mph wind game. He had an earlier drop that looked like the wind pushed the ball away from him.

Njoku with a huge drop...again. Seems like he will catch the TD opportunities and bone up the other big needs/catches.

Hunt with an uncharacteristic drop...Bryant with the fumble.

Game changing/losing mistakes aren't just fumbles and picks - and dropped picks. In a game where you only get the ball (6) times, those drops were the mistakes that cost us a chance to win the game.

The defense was pathetic...but the mistakes above are what cost us the game. We knew the D was going to suck...we knew the weather was going to suck...we did not expect to drop the game on the field and especially in the end zone.

Neither was a drop.

Thinking more, I really don't feel I can speak intelligently without re-watching the game... and I just have zero interest in doing that. That's why we got all the groppel (sp?) talk. Talking heads have to fill the void with something. The field reporter also needed something to laugh about... tough to be down there on the field chilled to the bone for a pretty boring game.

I'm just going to say I hope we get guys healthy and get other guys un-dinged (as much as possible), and the rest take this game as a big kick in the junk and we come out the other side of the bye strong and ready to knock some teams around.

Njoku’s drop was the killer for me personally. It was a NEEDED play. And it was the easiest pass of the day

I think you are one of the guys who try to be objective in your analysis along w/guys like oober, Tru, Cap, etc. So, I want to run something by you guys just to give you something to think about and watch for as we navigate the remainder of the season.

It's two-fold and involves both lines. I will start w/the DL.

I think we saw Ogunjobi getting moved on some of LV's running plays, but let's look at a bigger picture. What was our fear [both fans and coaching staff] coming into the game. Woods talked about having a plan to stop Waller. Many of us talked about it leading up to the game. We feared Waller and then Ruggs over the top. How do you slow that down? The obvious answer is to drop your linebackers in zone coverage and also commit at least one safety to cover the intermediate middle of the field. So, what area of your defense is compromised when you do that? The obvious answer is stuffing the run because you are outnumbered up front. My conclusion is that while we need more productivity and toughness on the DL, the bigger culprits are the linebackers and safeties because they are not adequate in either defending the pass or stopping the run w/a larger emphasis on their inadequacies in the passing game.

The second part involves the OL. Comments have been made about us not getting a push. However, the Browns have faced more seven man fronts than any team in the league. Teams are stacking the LOS because we were leading the league in rushing for most of the season. The question is how do you defeat loaded LOS boxes? I think our passing game needs to step up and make the opposing defenses pay for committing so many men to the box. That should open up the running lanes again. Do we have the right guys in place to be a good passing team?

Something for some of you to ponder...

Your point about our defense’s focus is really valid. We certainly didn’t want to let Waller and Ruggs beat us, which makes sense. You gotta pick your poison.

My only gripe would be that, IMO, we needed to adjust after the game had started. The weather and THEIR game plan were both well known. Short, quick passes and the run game. I don’t think Gruden trusted Carr yesterday any more than we trusted Baker. I would have liked to see a bit more of us making them beat us through the air once the variables were known.

I don't disagree with anything you say. I do have one question, though.... It's truly an honest/sincere question, but at the same time I think you can see where I'm going with this.

If our Oline/RB is truly a strength, wouldn't we be able to still run it some even with them dialed up to stop it? If so, are we really that banged up to where our strength isn't one until we get people back?

I, personally, don't buy the explanation that Chubb coming back will cure all (or even most) of our problems. His backup is a rushing title holder that is still in the midst of his prime years. We've lost 1 guy on the line. OBJ being out also frees up some defensive attention, but we've still got guys that can get open and do damage.

Thanks Vers. Those are good lines of thought. I'll attempt to tackle them both:

On the DL and the LBs: Like you, I think they are both at fault. My inference from reading your post (and correct me if I'm wrong) is that you are putting more onus on the LBs than the DL. I think I put them more on level ground in being at-fault. Like you, I imagine that Woods' initial plan was to stop Waller and Ruggs over the top. Oddly enough, on a couple passing downs, I think that plan was executed well. I remember we showed blitz and then only rushed 3. I think the play either ended in pressure on Carr and either an incomplete or near-INT. However, I have to imagine, in light of the weather and the early successes that the Raiders had running the ball, Woods adjusted his scheme to focus more on stopping the run. In that scenario, we saw the DL get pushed back with LV's OL at the second level within 2 seconds of the snap, which was just demoralizing. I do not think that that LB's are great in either coverage or stopping the run. In this case, however, they had very little help from the DL in terms of eating up blocks.

I feel like we have DTs who are more "penetrators" when it comes to attacking opposing OLs. They aren't adept at taking up blockers. I felt like what I saw yesterday was the Raiders running a man-blocking scheme that squared up with our DTs and pushed them back. Once the RB made it to that level, the OL had already started taking on the second level of our LBs who also struggle with shedding blocks.

So, to answer your question on the first point, I think the initial scheme was the zone that you had described, but that had morphed due to the weather and due to the Raiders' early success running. When the Raiders did pass, we saw them exploit weak links like Takitaki and Sendejo, almost as though Carr's reads involved looking for either one of those two.
Sadly, I don't think we were able to execute either our coverage or run-stuffing effectively. So, pretty much the entire defense, except our outside corners failed at what I would say was an equal level of failure.

To your second point, I think our OL - outside of Wills - did a fine job yesterday. I definitely think we are at the point where defenses have adjusted to our early running success and our passing game needs to step up. The drops yesterday killed us. I will never even pretend to be a better play caller or scheme developer than Stefanski, but I would like to see us take more advantage of the defenses honing in on the run. More boot legs and more quick play action. More RBs coming out of the backfield and/or screens. We just struggle to get into a rhythm there. It seems like we were hitting guys in some of the intermediate routes, but they just dropped them.

I would like to focus on scheming for more 5 routes to Higgins and PA 1 or 2 routes to Landry to try and get into a rhythm. Also some 6 routes to our TEs, like the one Njoku dropped yesterday that could have really helped. Getting defenses to creep up on the run and then executing those routes I think would go a long way to getting a balanced, effective offense that keeps the D more honest. Those routes don't take an excessive amount of time to develop and our OL has shown, on average, that they can give Baker all the time he needs to hit those receivers.

My thoughts are somewhat jumbled in my head trying to break all this out. If we keep the convo going, hopefully I can continue to lay them out more clearly.

To your point, I think one of the most dominating things a team can do to another team is run the ball when the other team is expecting you to run it and scheming to stop it.

I still think you need to have some element of a passing game to keep the other team honest, though, for those times when your run game isn't as potent as you want it to be. If your run scheme is effective against 7 or 8 in the box, keeping the defense honest in terms of playing the past would make your run game an even more potent threat.

He had the ball in his hands both times...until he didn't.

It's easier just to say he dropped them though.

I would hope the one where he got sandwiched in mid-air doesn't count as a drop. Baker got him crushed.

The diving one in the endzone that was reversed was a ball that Landry catches (and secures) usually. Dude is getting paid the big bucks for a couple reasons, and that's one.

The first one was totally a drop.

Thanks for responding w/a thoughtful post.

Browns gotta start getting off the field on 4th down this season. Opponents 13-14 now.

I think Stef just couldn't figure out what we could do decently in that weather against that team. Success on anything we tried was very hit & miss, and unfortunately, just a couple of misses - or a couple of ill-timed penalties - in that weather is a killer.

We couldn't get any consistency at all and then the defense did us no favors.

Typically, this year, the defense has been good for coming up with at least one turnover or more. Stopping a drive and turning it into an opportunity for us. That didn't happen yesterday.

None of our playmakers made a play.

Everyone, raise your hand if you expected them to convert that 3rd & 18.

(yeah, yeah, they had to convert the 4th & 1, but close enough)

One he did a full extension jump to get, one he got speared in the back of the head.

Great post Vers.

I was one of the ones who thought Waller was going to have a career day. I noticed that we did contain him a lot better than I expected, and forgot to mention that in my post-game thoughts. Thanks for the reminder.

In taking away that threat, it makes sense we exposed something else. We are not at the level where that won't happen. Stop the biggest threat and try to deal with the next.

and, I quote myself from another post: "opportunistic hot garbage"

When they stop getting takeaways, they're just "hot garbage".

That's a great point (as someone else also said) about focusing on Waller and co. I forgot about that.

Where else was Baker supposed to put the ball in that wind tunnel? Jarvis had both hands on the ball...until he didn't. That's a drop.

He's Jarvis Landry...not Damion Ratley...he needed to hold on to the ball. We see stud receivers make that play all the time...we see Landry make tough catches all the time...but he did not on those two plays...and it was very costly.

And no...I do not want to trade him.

The answer to your first question is to someone else, or through the goal posts. Landry was all kinds of covered.

The 2nd drop, IIRC, was double coverage, and while Jarvis had both hands on the ball, the DB reached up between his hands and dislodged the ball.

When Porter Gustin is your highest-graded D player... that just about sums it up right there (I like him, but he's a backup).

I think Vernon's grade is inflated from his 2 sacks. Didn't those come on the same drive and I believe that drive still ended up netting the Raiders a FG.

I know Ogunjobi isn't playing well, but that grade is BAD.

Curious how Landry graded out. Thought Mayfield might grade out a little higher.

I don't know why anyone ever punts against us. Wait, they don't ...

Ooof ... not a good look for Larry O or Mack Wilson or Wills

I thought Mayfield put that pass where Landry got crunched the only place he could have. I recall another TD on that exact same play where Landry made the catch, but that was without 2 cracked ribs. The other diving catch that got overturned was a catch, period, and should have been upheld. Great catch, great throw. Refs hosed us.

And that pretty much mirrors my post game thought.

I think most realistic fans were thinking the same thing before the season. I think we knew the defense was going to have a higher learning curve than the offense as well (regardless of injuries). How poorly the defense has played...well, I know I was sort of crossing my fingers that it wouldn't be quite this bad.

I guess this is why I'm not terribly surprised or outraged about yesterday. It's played out about the way we thought it would. At least for me.

Hell, I'm just glad that we're going to have 16 games this year. I was a bit more pessimistic about that than anything else.

I know that we were "built to win now" on offense in particular. But, still too many pieces missing in other facets of the team.

What does bother me (and has since the return, as many other posters have stated) is that we truly lost our identity as a bruising, tough home field team in '96. Yesterday's loss was a reminder of that.

Throw was where it needed to be. Landry has to make that catch.

The first hit the ground and moved - no catch.

I didn't see it move. I think its a catch, at the very least as much of a catch as Renfrow's TD. The NFL is wearing me out with these endless reviews involving what is a catch and what isn't.

We make those catches we win ...

PFF considers five drops for Browns. I’m willing to bet they weren’t counting the second ball in the end zone.

Drops by players

Landry 2
Hunt
Njoku
Janovich

The Njoku one was the worst IMO ... and I forgot about the Janovich. It was 3rd and long and actually a good playcall with a convoy in front

The NFL screwed up the whole catch thing with their stupid interpretation of what constitutes a catch. Hits the ground but receiver possesses and does not move, but does not use the ground to assist in the catch, makes a football move consistent with the game, blah, blah, blah. All crap.

Simply put, it should be like baseball. If the ball in any way, shape, or form hits the damn ground, it is NOT a catch. Brown on ground = no go at this station. Easy, peasy.

The overturned Landry TD was by far the worst.

both were killers.

Choosing which was worse fot that game is like trying to decide which is worse for dinner; cat feces or dog feces.

There is no choice. One was a TD that would have given the Browns the lead.

To claim that a first down drop is in the same category makes no sense.

The dropped interception should be in the running.

It was a way tougher catch though. Yes, he could have caught it and looked like he did. But Njoku’s was to extend a drive and all but guarantee us points. When he dropped it our chances to win decreased significantly. At least when Landry dropped it we still tied it

.

We will have to agree to disagree on many counts.

The most worrisome thing about that loss is that they manhandled us in the run game.

That is why we lost.
The Njoku drop lingers, though. That was not clutch. The total opposite of that, and btw did we trade him yet?

j/c:

Not sure how many will follow this logic because most did not seem to get it when I made similar points in the past, but given the nature of the recent posts on this thread, I will try again because all one has to do is scroll through the last page or so of posts to see the examples.

Problems can arise beyond just what is occurring on the field when you have a qb who plays poorly more times than not. There is typically a large faction of the fans and media members who are emotionally invested in the qb. That is understandable because a qb is perhaps the biggest key to a team's success and fans are hoping for the best. I'm not insulting anyone for that.

However, when things go wrong, those same fans and media members rush to assign blame to other players, coaches, etc. They will talk about poor OL play. Poor coaching. Changes in the organization. They will highlight drops. Conversely, they will ignore good OL play, good coaching, etc. And they will ignore really good to great catches. They won't acknowledge the catches that Higgins and DPJ made last week as winning the game. They will say the QB won the game. They won't acknowledge the great one-handed snag that Landry made or the tackles he broke on other plays. They won't acknowledge his superior blocking on successful running plays. They won't even consider that perhaps Baker could have released the ball a half second earlier on that TD that was overturned. That would have given Landry more time and space to run under it. They won't consider that maybe Baker could have went to a receiver who was not double covered in the end zone. Nope, it was Landry's fault for dropping two TDs and leaving 9 points on the field.

In this day and age of social media, the rest of the team hears these things. I can guarantee you that the narrative of many fans and some media members does NOT sit well in the locker room. I am not blaming Baker for that. I am saying that the blame game that many are resorting to is not good for the "team."

Njoku is really playing marginally, like the play you described. Isn't proving to be the "mismatch nightmare" we keep hearing about. No catch, no threat. Hype lives on in Berea. We need better production and points.

I think fans need a bye week as well.

re: Njoku... at the end of the day his hands suck and his blocking sucks. So he can outrun and outjump and/or outmuscle anyone all he wants... it doesn't really matter.

isn’t the old saying: “Looks like Tarzan, plays like Jane”

Really disappointed in that game. That was there for the taking and they just refused to go and get it.

I don't think this is concerning or anything. Just a dud. What is important, is how this team comes out of the bye against a team they should beat. As long as they keep bouncing back, I feel like things are still going in the right direction.

Mayfield got no help on Sunday, and there wasn't much he could do.

Our defense is a disgrace. 1 punt forced in two weeks. You have to get off the field.

This defense is not a finished product by any means but they have to find ways to pressure the QB other than Myles Garrett, you need linebackers to play better. It's just a whole mess. The Browns will find ways around it this year because of how talented their offense is, but what you saw Sunday is the main factor holding you back from the likes of the Steelers and Ravens. We got pushed around, and in a game like that, against that opponent, the Steelers and the Ravens do the pushing around.

Also, it was a shame Chubb was not available because that was a game where he could have gone for 300 yards.

I will say the same thing I said after the Steelers loss, these dudes gotta toughen up, they are getting pushed around when things don't go their way offensively.

Wills is doing great.

As it continues to settle in to the role, the sky's the limit.

I am amazed at the numbers. Keep up the great work, big fella!