This time for allegedly assaulting his son.

https://www.kansascity.com/sports/nfl/kansas-city-chiefs/article227983684.html

Wow. Broke the kids arm. Doesn't bode well for a player with a domestic violence history who is currently on probation for previous conviction.

Maybe Kansas City will cut him.

So you’re saying the guy who beat up his pregnant girlfriend doesn’t magically now know how to control himself?

If Hunt got 8 games, what does a 2nd offender get? I'd say at least the whole season, and maybe an indefinite suspension beyond that.

KC’s dynamic trio is looking like a solo act this coming year.
We’ve got their RB. The league will be holding Hill’s cleats for at least a few games is my guess.
Mahomes is going solo. He’s going to need Kelce to have a career year.

I am so sorry for their family. Violence within a family is always a horrible thing.

I see a full season suspension, as he was already in the violence program, IIRC.

Should be more than that. How on earth can somebody break a little boy's arm? I really hope this was some sort of accident.

We gotta get this guy

RB’s are interchangeable to a degree, not so much with WR’s. We’ll see if KC keeps their no tolerance policy of domestic violence.

It’ll be interesting if they keep Hill, who has a worse history than Hunt (assuming this is true).

Didn’t Adrian Peterson get a year for switching his kid? I would think a broken arm, if deliberate, would warrant more than that.

i'm hoping this turns out to be untrue ... i feel for that kid if it's true

I have a hard time imagining any rationale for hitting a 3 year old other than a light smack on their bottom or maybe a slap on the wrist if they're reaching for something dangerous, like a pot of boiling water or an electrical outlet.

j/c:

A possible big blow to KC.

Hopefully, it was an accident. If not, he should receive a long suspension.

I'm all for giving guys a second chance, but this would be a repeat offense on a family member.

Again, I hope it was an accident. Mostly because I don't want his child to grow-up in such a toxic environment. If Hill loses his ability to play football, can you imagine how frustrated and angry he will be. That doesn't bode well for his son or other family members.

Fairly certain child services will be involved with this.

I think I saw on NFLn last night that Hunt was being looked at for three incidents.. One of which he was found to be not responsible for. So that leaves him with 2 incidents which is why he got 8 games..

I know you are kidding....I have him on both of my keeper teams...I think I am going to have to adjust who I keep. I don't think he is going to be playing anytime soon....and shouldn't be

j/c

Let's not jump to conclusions. The child has a broken arm. From the article, "KCTV 5 obtained another Overland Park police report from March 5 on a report of child abuse or neglect. That report was closed three days later when authorities declined to prosecute, according to KCTV 5’s report."

It often happens that if a child is injured during a suspected lapse of parental or custodial attention, the police will report that lapse as possible neglect to the local children's/family authorities and let them decide whether that lapse was criminal or not.

I don't know what happened, but the fact that both Hill and Espinal were named, and no charges made open the possibility that the child was injured accidentally.

good point, the neglect wording may lend itself to that scenario

They need to let the investigation play out before doing anything, whether anyone thinks that's a good thing or a bad thing. It's just a true thing.

He has a history of domestic abuse, so unfortunately, that looks bad, especially in the media.

If he did it, man, he's in trouble.

And, sadly, IF he did, their's no video of it that we know of, so with being cut, fined, suspended, or worse as a possible penalty, there is a chance someone else may take the fall for it in light of the job/contract, etc. situation.

Terrible situation, no doubt, but until more information is known by the people/organizations doing the investigation, we probably shouldn't rush to judgment just yet. It certainly, on the face of it, looks bad.

8 to 10 games I dee coming down the pipe

Second time he tried to hurt the same son. The first time, his momma's belly protected him.

Yep, you reqd that correctly. Hill allegedly tried to cause her to miscarriage by pounding on the belly.

And Tyreek Hill has twins on the way. Lovely.

Excuse my language here, but what kinda Jackarse does stuff like that... Seriously, it's not like he has to worry about how he's going to handle the costs of a child...

Idiot

Very interesting to see how KC handles this since they set such a harsh precedent with Hunt.

I don't think in anyone's mind this incident is the lesser of the two.

But I also think KC wishes they hadn't jumped the gun on releasing Hunt to begin with.

Ok the Mighty Chiefs have lost 2 powerful weapons (Hunt/Hill) in one year, that will be hard for them to overcome, it would be hard for anyone to overcome losing those two weapons ...

If the stories are accurate, hitting a child in the womb is, in my mind, way worse that kicking a woman who appeared to be drunk and somewhat angry about something... Neither is right, but hurting a pregnant woman,, Come on..

Well we already know he beat his pregnant girlfriend. He pled guilty to that charge.

I am not including you in this, cfrs. However, I think some people are confused about the current Hill case.

Wow! This is so, so sad to hear.

Didn't they show interest in signing him when we did? I thought I read it was us, KC and CHI that reached out to him. If so, then you are obviously correct.

Apparently I'm one of them

If it is proven that Hill broke the arm of a 3 year old after what he has already done.

He should never see a NFL field again.

I suppose it’s a little odd Hill hasn’t made a statement to the media attempting to clear his name. Meaning, if you knew your son fell off his bike and then the media took off with “Hill’s under investigation for breaking his son’s arm”, you’d want to get out in front of that FAST.

The silence is deafening (and I only have one working ear).

He's probably following the advice of his attorney since this is under investigation. You have the right the remain silent, it's always a good idea to utilize this right.

R Kelly disagrees!

Right, I get that 100%, but if you really did nothing wrong, I would be screaming that off the mountain tops if it was for a charge like this.

A simple, "He fell down the stairs. The investigation will prove that this was a simple accident. I'd never intentionally hurt my own kid, again."

Okay, the "again" is my own little sarcastic addition, but you get the idea.

It would probably just come across as excessive in protest, as Shakespeare portrayed in Hamlet, "The lady protests too much, methinks".

It's best to just shut-up and do what your lawyer tells you to do.

Punch has what I would call a typical response. I mean if you pull and R. Kelly a lot of people will think you are guilty. If you say nothing a lot of people will think you are guilty. The only thing about saying nothing is people can't twist you words.

Prosecutors do it all the time to try and sway a jury. Most of us understand that different people process grief differently. Some people it doesn't really hit for a while. Some people feel they need to be strong for their children, family or others. As such they hide their grief.

But if a prosecutor decides to come after you, he will use the way you grieve against you no matter how you react. If your grief is overwhelming he'll portray it as a show and over the top. If you don't show a lot of emotion he'll say that you didn't act normally and weren't bothered by the death of a loved one making you look suspicious.

Perception is an odd animal.

There were rumblings about Chiefs trading Tyreek Hill, per Jay Glazer - Arrowhead Pride
https://www.arrowheadpride.com/2019/3/21...-per-jay-glazer

When The Athletic’s Jay Glazer writes about something NFL-related, it is worth taking it seriously. Glazer was the first to report any inkling about the New York Giants potentially trading Odell Beckham Jr. when many regarded it as impossible. As we know now, Beckham Jr. eventually was traded to the Cleveland Browns.

That is why this quote regarding Kansas City Chiefs wide receiver Tyreek Hill in his latest mailbag deserves some attention. Glazer speculated that Hill’s “name was being thrown about in trade talks” at the start of free agency.

[social:tweet]https://twitter.com/TheAthleticNFL/status/1108738749935042565/photo/1[/social]

Here is the full excerpt:

Any updates on the Tyreek Hill situation? — Anthony S.

I don’t think the league will jump to do something very quickly. It will take them time because of the severity and sensitivity of the matter.

On a separate note, even if none of this happened, there were questions in Kansas City about whether they could re-sign Tyreek Hill. I heard some rumblings at the start of free agency that his name was being thrown about in trade talks, but at the time thought it had to do with his contract more than anything else. I think this one will take a little while to play out.
Reports in early March said that the Chiefs were working on a “record-setting” deal for Hill, which would have presumably made him the highest-paid wide receiver in the NFL. Those talks may have been tabled once The Kansas City Star reported about Hill’s involvement in an investigation for alleged battery.

Another point we haven’t identified is if Glazer’s note means the Chiefs were shopping Hill or other teams were asking about him. And if they were shopping him, for what reason? What could have they received in return?

As our own Matt Stagner points out, it is a good reminder that there is only one untouchable player on the Chiefs, and that’s Patrick Mahomes.

There is a lot of speculation but no real news. If Hill had broken his son's arm out of anger/violence, he would most likely have been arrested on the spot. Law Enforcement generally takes DV very seriously and is quick to separate suspects from victims to ensure no further action. Again, I don't know any more than anyone else what happened. But fact that he hasn't been arrested or charged suggests to me that it's very likely an accidental injury where there may be questions of negligence.

It is more about parental neglect IMO. The kid could have fallen down the steps. My kids, your kids could have fallen and broke a arm.


Too many woosies in this world...."You let your child near steps?"

Now if he actually did that, screw him.

' Wussies' is the correct spelling. Otherwise you're 100 % correct.

Edit: lol, corrected my spelling error of you're.

yeah... sounds like a non-story.

either the Chiefs were trying to lower his contract value or Hill's agent was lowering his trade value. LOL

I think he was not arrested because it was something reported by the hospital because the child had been in before for injuries and it raised a flag, so DCF is investigating. It was not a call by the mother or anyone, they are trying to determine if it was truly an accident or it was abuse.

At least that was the story I read back when it first came out.

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/26596672/chiefs-hill-not-face-child-abuse-charges



What a horrible situation.

I guess he got the Jussie Smollet treatment.

Before Roger Goodell, Tyreek Hill’s Fifth Amendment rights won’t save him

by Mike Florio on April 24, 2019, 4:31 PM EDT
ProFootballTalk.com

Chiefs receiver Tyreek Hill won’t be prosecuted for hurting his three-year-old child, even though prosecutors believe someone hurt Hill’s three-year-old child. A prosecution won’t occur because both Hill and the boy’s mother, Crystal Espinal, can invoke their Fifth Amendment right against self-incrimination and refuse to cooperate with the investigation and, ultimately, to testify at trial.

That won’t save Hill from the scrutiny of the NFL.

Here’s the key language from the Personal Conduct Policy: “Because the Fifth Amendment’s protection against self-incrimination does not apply in a workplace investigation, the league will reserve the right to compel a player to cooperate in its investigations even when he is the target of a pending law enforcement investigation or proceeding. A player’s refusal to speak to a league investigator under such circumstances will not preclude an investigation from proceeding or discipline from being imposed.”

Given Hill’s history — he pleaded guilty before entering the NFL to assaulting Espinal while she was pregnant — and the age of the child, the NFL should do what the prosecutor couldn’t do. Specifically, the NFL should presume that Hill is guilty, unless and until Hill persuasively convinces the league that he isn’t.

If he won’t talk to the league, he’s guilty. If he talks to the league but he tells a story that isn’t believable or consistent, he’s guilty. If Espinal tries to take the blame but does so in a way that, given her clear financial interest in protecting Hill, seems flimsy or not credible, he’s guilty.

Indeed, if Hill isn’t guilty he should be committed to bringing to justice whoever injured his child. And it’s fair to assume that Hill and Espinal have circled the wagons to protect each other from potential incarceration.

While that apparently will fly in Johnson County, Kansas (some would say the prosecutor should charge both of them with a crime and let a jury sort it all out, if Hill and Espinal both refuse to testify), it won’t fly at 345 Park Avenue. Especially since Hill escaped scrutiny for assaulting Espinal at a time when he was not yet subject to the Personal Conduct Policy.


https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/20...-wont-save-him/

Why doesnt someone just ask the child who hurt him?

I am not defending Hill and the his son's mother, but I want people to take a close look at this sentence and see how freaking misleading the media can be.

Without commenting on Mike Florio's writing skills, I would just say I'm a believer in Occam's Razor: the simplest explanation is usually the right one. Hill has a history. Odds are he hurt his son.

I'm not arguing that, Dave. I am pointing out that Florio is using slanted tactics. It used to be called "yellow journalism" back in the day. Not sure what they call it now, other than "mandatory daily writing techniques to draw more attention to your articles."

I'm not particularly interested in Florio's tactics because I already thought he was a hack. If there were any one thing I would critique it would be his presenting the use of fifth amendment rights by Hill and his wife, when there were no reports that I'm aware of which said they asserted that right. Not that I care, because I think Tyreek Hill hurt that child.

This often happens when people draw conclusions without evidence.

The sentence in the audio from @KCTV5 that will likely doom Tyreek Hill's future with the Chiefs & the NFL is this one that he said to Crystal Espinal:

"You need to be terrified of me, too, b****."

https://twitter.com/ByNateTaylor/status/1121550939243122688

A portion of the Tyreek Hill audio with Christal Espinal:

Espinal: "What do you do when the child is bad? You make him open up his arms and you punch him in the chest."

Hill: "You use a belt too."

https://twitter.com/TerezPaylor/status/1121552127942365191

Because 3 year olds with violent abusive fathers always break their arm on their own.

There is NOTHING wrong with saying someone broke the kids arm if that is what their investigation leads them to believe.

Yes, because little kids with broken arms arent evidence.

I thought so.

Shame on the posters who prop up violent child abusers.

The authorities need to get this kid away from these sick deranged people.

I am so tired of you misrepresenting my positions. I clearly said I wasn't supporting Hill. I only spoke of the biased journalism. Of course, you ignore the first part and yet again trash my character.

Please stay the hell away from me.

One thing I've learned over the past few weeks: While I haven't been posting much at all............the same people find something to get offended about - just with other posters. Here, politics,.....any thread. I find that interesting.

You post on a message board, you get a response. Deal with it.

There is an ignore button.

You routinely support violent athletes in these abuse stories.

Its disgusting.

As is your assertion that somehow the journalist is biased when reporting the prosecution's results. You do realize that it's the authority's responsibility to determine the cause of the injury, correct? And determine if it was an accident or not, correct?

Sorry you cant handle the results.

Your support of these types of men make me wonder about you.

Interesting take.

You tell me who in the world

?

You disgust me w/your lies. I will leave yet another thread where Eve gets away w/her BS!

Probably the same person who threatened physical violence on posters of this board because they disagreed with them.

Why did you include that quote, that I never said or typed, in your reply to me?

For the record, I wasn't replying to you anyway. I made a post about people arguing and fighting even when I wasn't posting.

I misunderstood your point. Sorry.

But, I left this thread. LOL

I'll leave it for real now. Let Eve continue to spread her poisonous lies.

j/c:

Explosive recording reveals NFL star Tyreek Hill 'threatened his fiancee when she confronted him about terrifying their 3-year-old son and breaking his arm,’ saying: 'You need to be terrified of me, too, b***h'

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article...-recording.html

Chiefs ban Tyreek Hill from offseason workouts
Posted by Mike Florio on April 26, 2019, 12:37 AM EDT


The story of draft day came roughly an hour before the draft started.

Chiefs receiver Tyreek Hill, one of the best players in the league who not long ago was on the brink of a new contract that perhaps would have paid him upwards of $20 million per year, will no longer be participating in offseason workouts.

G.M. Brett Veach told reporters in a late-night, end-of-round-one press conference that, in light of the audio that emerged on Thursday evening of Hill and Crystal Espinal discussing the events that led to their three-year-old son suffering a broken arm, Hill will not be taking part in any team activities.

“We were deeply disturbed by what we heard, we were deeply concerned,” Veach told reporters. “We decided that at this time and for the foreseeable future, Tyreek Hill will not take part in any team activities. We are going to gather more information, we’re going to evaluate this information, and we will make the right decision regarding Tyreek Hill.”

Barring evidence that the audio was doctored or falsified in any way, the right decision — the only decision — is to permanently sever ties with Tyreek Hill.

Link

Based on his history, the kids broken arm and this tape, the dude isn’t getting that extension and he might be suspended 8+ games. I don’t see how the Chiefs can keep him on the roster after having drawn that line in the sand with Hunt. KC has painted themselves into a corner.

100x worse what Hunt did. 100% knee jerk with hunt.. This is the guy that should be in prison

Hill has to be gone IMO ... No way the NFL allows him to play based on this information

This is where that "empathy discussion" we had gets me in trouble.

I will state up front and for the record, the woman and the child need to get as far away from Hill as possible and whether he ever plays football again is really none of my concern and.. ultimately he is responsible for his own actions.

But this type of behavior doesn't develop in a vacuum, this is a learned behavior from his past. Somebody did this man seriously wrong somewhere in his past and he's carrying it forward because he doesn't know any other way.... and the fact that he now has money and fame and the world on a platter, it's not enough for him to forget where he came from... he's recreating it. I hope he gets help..

he needs jail time.

Sure seems like it.

I'd have to think it's a possibility

I had a broken collar bone when I was six. Does that mean I was beaten? No, it doesn't.

The more that is coming out the more Hill is looking like a scum bag in this.

But that doesn't excuse jumping to conclusions.

Did you have an abusive violent father, and did the authorities feel your broken bone was the result of an abusive act?

Also, 3 and 6 are vastly different as far as typical physical activities/play. 3 year olds are typically supervised and arent going to be doing things that result in broken bones. Not if they have a responsible parent.

But sure, keep making excuses for scum.

Don't know who has heard the audio.

I did.

If the decision were left to me he would never play another down in the NFL.

I have zero tolerance for a child abuser.

In addition he threatened his wife. This guy is scum. The worst kind of human being.

This is not a case for a second chance. He has been given chances. The audio is sickening.

It is disgusting that he is not prosecuted.

A three year old, 30 lb defenseless child. A child petrified of his father. A child whose arm was broken and gets punched in the chest for crying. And then he threatens his wife.

His wife is also at fault for not turning Hill over to the police.

I would pay someone to terrify Hill and break his arms and legs.

I heard the tape. There is no dispute unless the tape was falsified.

In my eyes this is worst than Ray Rice incident or any of the other I am aware of.

Don't blame the victim.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victim_blaming

Let me myself perfectly clear.

A mother protects her child. If a abusive father is a physical danger to a child who else is responsible for the child's safety?

If she is a victim of abuse as well then she must take legal action to protect herself and her child.


I don't need a wiki link about the term victim.

Since I didn't make any excuses for him you lie means nothing.

You did, congrats for supporting a child abuser and wife beater.

That's a lie. If i did then post it. You can't. All you can do is make up BS and talk crap.

This is called excuses, and trying to minimize/deny the crime. Especially when the authorities straight up said someone broke the kids arm.

I'm not sure if this was in reply to my post that said:



or if maybe you were just using Quick Reply, ie, replying to the thread.

But if it was a reply to my post about believing Hill was guilty of hurting his son, I just want to say that the conclusion wasn't based on "no evidence". It was very largely based on the fact that he brutally beat his pregnant fiancée before he was drafted, and my subsequent belief that he is just "bad people".

Probably longer. If Hunt gets 8 games for a soft kick to a woman's butt...a woman who wasn't exactly acting in a nice way, you break your kids arm, and then tell his girlfriend she needs to be afraid as well....not even in the same ballpark.

As sad as this situation is, it's just as sad that Tyreek is playing out the life he probably lived as a child.

The authorities reopened the case against Hill.

https://www.thescore.com/nfl/news/1764092

The criminal case against Kansas City Chiefs receiver Tyreek Hill was reopened Friday following the release of an audio clip Thursday of him and his fiancee, Crystal Espinal, discussing their three-year-old son and the investigation into possible child abuse, head coach Andy Reid confirmed, according to The Kansas City Star's Brooke Pryor.

In the recording, Espinal asks Hill why their three-year-old son said "Daddy did it," in reference to an incident that left the child with a serious arm injury.

Hill and Espinal were both under investigation for child abuse, but district attorney Stephen Howe said Wednesday that no charges would be filed, citing a lack of evidence in the case over who committed the act. However, Howe stated he believes a crime did occur.

The Chiefs told the receiver to not to participate in team activities until the organization learns more about the incident.

My hope he is found guilty and spends a long time in prison.

You forgot the next line of that post. But of course you would because you just love to lie it seems.



Nice try but another fail at a character assassination.

And that's fine to conclude that. But at the same time, when you made that conclusion we didn't really have the evidence to support that conclusion.

We do now. Some people make a mistake in their life and learn from their mistakes. Others have a propensity to continue to walk down a dark path. Hill seems to be one of those that continue to make the same mistake over and over again.

But when you try to judge someone over something from their past, in many cases you will be mistaken.

I don't want to belabor the point (too late?), but I think the sheer brutality of his prior offense made him Suspect #1, with a bullet.

Or, it could be making excuses and you ignoring the fact that the authorities said it was not an accident.

Which could have been done by his wife or anyone who came in contact with the child besides his dad.

My only point was that jumping to conclusions before we actually have some firm evidence as to who was actually responsible is a leap to take.

That was before the tape came out. Now the answer is obvious.

Dude, the authorities said this wasn't an accident, even if they didn't have enough evidence to pin it on the husband or the wife. Just that it was not an accident.

This was BEFORE you posted your typical holier than thou know it all lame ass WRONG comment.

Talking about how your broke your bones on your own. Because your experience is supposed to mean something more than the FACTS in this case.

But sure, try to spin it, to cya, when we all can see what you typed.

Its guys like Hill that make me wish the Punisher was not just a fictional character from a comic.

The "authorities" make mistakes all the time. As long as humans are involved mistakes will be made.

Evidence has come out since that makes it look like he's probably guilty.

But you'll have to excuse me if I don't take everything the "authorities" say at face value.

My hope is he finds religion and help for his issues...and then he can spend a long time being a better father to his son and healing the wrongs. Another child with a daddy in prison is becoming way to normal and it is very sad.

I agree

I know three sisters who went to Canton Central Catholic. All three were drop dead gorgeous and I knew all of them well. Their dad was kinda cool when you would talk to him about sports and similar topics, but he beat his wife.

All three girls got into bad relationships that were also abusive. Drugs and alcohol became coping measures for two and one in particular. I lost track of the eldest sister, so I can't say for sure if substance abuse became an issue later on.

It's really sad because they were such fun-loving, beautiful girls who somehow chose guys that had the very same character flaw as their father.

That is sad Vers... There are so many stories of this kind. I love the stories of people who were beaten and locked up in closets to starve and they became DRs and wonderful people.

I wish people could learn from the negative things that have happened to them. And are able to turn them into a positive thing. Not easy, just wish it was.

My wife overcame those things. Her sister and brother did not.

Let's face it, bro......people who are subjected to abuse are more prone to be victims of it throughout their lives. Even worse, many become abusive, themselves.

I don't know who all reads these forums. I see a lot of anonymous posters reading this board each day in addition to those of us who talk a lot. But, I would encourage all to break the chain of abuse if you were abused. Children should never be subjected to such things. They always will be because some folks will become abusers and others will continue what they learned growing up...........but, I plead w/people to do the best you can to break the chain of abuse.

Many people go to church, but few accept Christ into their hearts as Lord and Savior.

It is extraordinarily sad that so many grow up seeing abuse, and then choose abusive relationships for themselves.

THis is the leagues biggest problem. Inconsistancy.

Well I take that back, they are consistent in wanting money. They know the Chiefs and Mahommes are drawing people to watch, so they want to keep it that way and are letting this POS play.

Man, the NFL is making it hard to watch.

how in gods name did this clown dodge charges AND punishment from the league?

Well, Florio got this one wrong....unfortunately.

Exaaactly. Smart money was on attorneys that knew enough loopholes and people to get the records sealed? Easy for the NFL to play dumb and keep a superstar on the field.

“...based on the evidence presently available,” is the NFL washing it's hands and Goodell riding off on his white horse.

Nothing to see here folks, move along...

Goodell and the NFL are straight up crooked. The evidence, especially concerning Goodell, is alarming.

Everyone looks the other way because of the money involved.

except if you play in cleveland

Travesty.

I have zero compassion for a child abuser. None. I don't care where he came from or what his childhood was like.

We are all born knowing what is right and wrong.

Breaking a 3 year old's arm. Punching him in the chest because he cries. Listen to the tape.

It was already a proven fact that he punched his pregnant wife in the belly.

What kind of person does those things. Listen to the tape. That is a father talking?

He doesn't deserve the title of father.

I would pay to see every limb on his body broken.

A defenseless 3 year child and a women. Abused by NFL football player and league does nothing.

Disgusting.

Travesty was exactly the word I used for it.


Terelle Pryor got suspended for 5 games for taking Tattoos...IN COLLEGE.

Vincent Jackson got suspended 3 games for DRIVING WITHOUT A LICENSE!


Zeke got 6 games for pulling down a womans top.

PLaxico got like 4 games for SHOOTING HIMSELF in the leg.

Richie Incognito got basically a YEAR for talking trash to a very troubled Jonathon Martin.






This is disgusting and if he were not on a team with Patrick Mahommes he would be done. The NFL wants to protect their star players at any cost and it is awful.

I don't buy that. In every other case it was clear something had been done to violate the policy.

In this case, there isn't any evidence that points to Hill. If there was anything, in the case of a child, I mean anything, Hill would be out on bail at this point with a scheduled hearing.

As the NFL said, if things change, their position can change.

Right. You also have stated in this forum that it's ok to kick women on the ground as long as you don't kick them hard.

That video can be interpreted in different ways, especially considering about 6 minutes were not aired.

I think they both come across as sinister characters. I think he's dumb. I think she may have been trying to set him up by the things she said.

I get that we are supposed to think he is guilty after watching that video, but I'm pretty good at comprehending things and I'm just not sure.

Apparently, the prosecutors were not, either.

Also, I don't think this is about money. The NFL suspended Tom Freaking Brady and Zeke. Both are way bigger stars than Hill.

With all that said, Hill could be guilty. He does have a history. I'm just not sure.

When I hear "You need to be terrified of me too, b----.", I hear a physical threat, in this case, from a guy who punched his pregnant fiancée in the stomach and choked her in an earlier, separate incidence. IMO, Goodell had adequate cause for at least an 8 game suspension, based on Hill's history.

Yeah, I agree w/that. That is why I'm unsure.

I think her dialogue was contrived. She was trying to set him up and that made me suspicious. After all, she is the one who recorded it, right?

He seemed kinda confused for the most part and really dumb. But yeah, that sentence was damning and made me wonder. I think he may have just been threatening her, but it's hard to say for sure.

There is no doubt that he is a piece of crap for what he did to her before.

I also think that it is probably telling that the station did not air the rest of the recording. They did mention that Hill accused her of being the abuser, but the news station left all of that out when they played the recording. Remember, the video was actually 11 minutes in length.

I don't know, Dave.............I just don't think that video was enough for the prosecution to move forward and I am sure there is more information out there that they have and we are not privy to.

I am not defending HIll, but I can see how many folks could be fooled by that video.

No proof because a three year old can't be testify.

What Hill did to her before - fact. Broken arm - fact.

Not self inflicted. Fact.

No other witness? No. Because these two scumbags would not testify against each other.

No proof but no custody.

Legal protection that is what is in play.

I listen to that tape my blood boils. These people don't deserve to be parents.

I get that there's some room for doubt, but I'm a big fan of Occam's Razor, which states (paraphrased) that the obvious answer is almost always the correct one.

I wasn't asking anyone to agree w/me. I was just giving my opinion on the matter. He may be guilty and he may not be guilty of this particular crime.

I do think both of the parents are scum-bags. I also think he comes across as dumb as a box of rocks. I have very little doubt in my mind that she was playing him and trying to get him to admit to something he may or may not have done.

I still wonder why they did not show the entire video?

I will only say that I am not as gullible as some folks are. There's much more to that story than we are being told. But again, I think both are scum-bags and I'm not defending either one. I just can see why the prosecution thought that video was bogus.

bro what sucks is that let it be you or me or anyone else on this board, and nevermind worrying about suspension, we gotta worry about the next 5-10 year behind bars.

as we SHOULD, btw, it just sucks that once again, there's a system for the rich, and then there's a system for everyone else.

Tyreek Hill’s Verbal Threat Should Have Warranted an NFL Suspension

https://www.si.com/nfl/2019/07/19/tyreek-hill-chiefs-child-abuse-investigation-avoids-nfl-suspension


By JENNY VRENTAS July 19, 2019

When the Chiefs report to training camp next Friday, Tyreek Hill will be there. The star receiver will be allowed to practice, and he will enter the 2019 season without any penalty for the child-abuse investigation or the threatening comments he made to the mother of his three children, Crystal Espinal, on a secret audio recording this offseason.

The NFL announced its decision Friday morning, stating that, “based on the evidence presently available, the NFL cannot conclude that Mr. Hill violated the Personal Conduct Policy.” The end of the statement left the door open for discipline “if further information becomes available through law enforcement, the pending court proceeding, or other sources.” NFL investigator Lisa Friel interviewed Hill for 8.5 hours in Kansas City in late June; the MMQB’s Albert Breer reports that the league made multiple attempts to interview Espinal, but she did not participate.

This case was always going to be a complicated one for the NFL to adjudicate—as many domestic violence cases are—because it was a complicated one for the district attorney to adjudicate. In April, Johnson County District Attorney Steve Howe announced he would not press charges against Hill or Espinal for abuse of their young son. Howe added that “we believe a crime has occurred,” but the evidence did not “conclusively establish who committed the crime against this child.” Hill has denied these child-abuse allegations, calling them false in a statement he tweeted. The NFL said that its understanding is that the boy, who turned four this month, is safe and that his care is being directed and monitored by the Johnson County District Court and the Johnson County Department for Children and Families.

The NFL labeled its investigation “comprehensive,” but the statement makes clear that league investigators were not privy to all of the information surrounding the case. The NFL’s personal conduct policy states that it will make an effort not to interfere with local authorities’ investigations. In this case, the information the NFL was not able to obtain included the court proceedings, which are confidential, and the law enforcement records, which have been sealed. Regarding the abuse investigation, the NFL defaulted to the decision made by local authorities.

But what about the audio recording, in which Hill can be heard telling the woman he plead guilty to abusing in a 2014 assault, “You need to be terrified of me, too, dumb b----”? This threat, which Hill has admitted he made, constitutes a violation of the personal conduct policy as it is written. The first item in the policy’s list of prohibited behaviors is “actual or threatened physical violence against another person.” Last year, Ravens cornerback Jimmy Smith was suspended four games by the NFL for “evidence of threatening and emotional abusive behaviors … that showed a pattern of improper conduct.” This is one example of how players who may not face criminal charges can still be subject to league discipline.

The NFL’s statement regarding its decision did not address Hill’s threat. Asked to provide clarity as to why the recorded threat did not result in punishment for Hill, league spokesperson Brian McCarthy said it was viewed in the context of the full audio recording in addition to evidence gathered through the league's four-month investigation, which included speaking with family members on both sides and other electronic information from before and after the recording, as Pro Football Talk first reported.

The 11-minute audio recording, which Espinal secretly taped on a trip to Dubai with Hill in March and sent to a friend for safekeeping, was partially aired by a Kansas City TV station in April and released in full by a local radio station earlier this month. (The NFL had access to the full audio since April.) During the recording, Espinal asks Hill why their son says “Daddy did it,” regarding his broken arm, and says that the boy is terrified of him. That’s when Hill replies that she needs to be terrified of him, too. They also accuse each other of using a belt to discipline their son.

In the portion of the recording that was previously unreleased to the public, Hill denies abusing Espinal in 2014, when they were students at Oklahoma State, and accuses Espinal of lying and ruining his life. Espinal, who was then eight weeks pregnant with their son, told police Hill punched her in her face and stomach, busted her lip and choked her. According to the Stillwater Police Department incident report, the responding police officer observed bruises and markings in the areas she had described. Hill pleaded guilty in 2015 to domestic assault and battery by strangulation, signing a statement in which he acknowledged that he “wrongfully” put her in a headlock and compressed her airway, causing bodily injury.

When the Chiefs selected Hill in the fifth round of the NFL draft in 2016, the team defended its decision by explaining that Hill was remorseful for his actions, would continue to be in counseling and was trying to “right the wrong.” In his second meeting with local reporters, Hill apologized for “my mistake,” saying, “I did something wrong. I just let my emotions get the best of me, and I shouldn’t have did it.” Chiefs coach Andy Reid said at the time that he believed there would be a positive end. The remorsefulness that the Chiefs stated as a factor in their taking a chance on Hill three years ago stands in stark contrast to Hill’s comments on the audio recording, in which he blames Espinal for his assault and battery conviction.

The Chiefs will have their most explosive player, the one they were in talks with for a mega contract extension early this offseason, back in the fold for the 2019 season. But while the NFL chose to not suspend him, let’s be clear about what the statement does not say: It does not say that it has all of the information about the child-abuse investigation and the crime the D.A. believes was committed against Hill's son. And the it does not directly address why a player, who previously plead guilty to assault and battery by strangulation against the mother of his children, was not disciplined for telling her, “you need to be terrified of me, too, dumb b----.”

I tend to agree with this article. The NFL isn't the law, and their conduct policy is pretty wide. The threats he made against his baby momma should be enough for a suspension.

This is a dangerous situation. Hill is a very volatile personality who has been told, once again, that his actions really don't have consequences.

And "law and order" in the NFL - every time I think it can't possibly look more ridiculous, Roger says "hold my beer".

This was a genuine chance for the league to address an individual's issues before they get out of hand. Hope nobody gets hurt.

I don't think the NFL suspending Hill would help protect those around him. In fact, it probably would increase the chances of him lashing out in anger.

I wonder if the NFL or the team could make him go to counseling?

SMH

I feel sorry for the kid having to put up with both of his parents

It's not that I disagree with what you're saying, you're right. That video really doesn't reveal anything definitively, other than neither should be parents. What the thread kinda started in on is that other players were suspended over WAY flimsier evidence. Why would the NFL suddenly flip to lawyer speak as if NFL suspensions were conducted like an actual legal matter. Their zealousness in the Zeke case (and others mentioned above) was replaced by an abundance of caution. Why? Especially in this case where you have a kid getting his arm broken. Why now?

Could it be an olive branch being extended to the NFLPA in advance of upcoming CBA negotiations? I know in the past the NFLPA has been critical of what they thought were arbitrary and overly harsh disciplinary rulings by Goodell. To me it looks like Goodell has come full circle to his botch-job of the Ray Rice situation.

This effing bum has been in consoling since he was drafted. When he confessed to punching his wife and chocking her.

The tape. Listen.

They are talking about a three old. A three year old.
Teaching him to respect them. After punching a three year old in the chest and discussing discipline with a belt.

A three old needs only love and affection. They are just beginning to put sentences together.

Nothing is more precious than a three year old. They are in their prime of cuteness. Funny, loving.

I can hardly type this. I came from from great parents.They taught me how to be parent. I have been a parent. And now I live with my grandsons. I am helping to raise them.

Nothing has been more fulfilling in my life.

The court has taken custody. Yet the NFL fails to act.

The Chiefs have failed.

When I witness this sort of injustice; I want to scream.

j/c

You know, these threads used to sound the opposite of this. You would hear people complaining that a player was not convicted of a crime so the NFL didn't have enough evidence to suspend that player. That the NFL had no right to suspend those players. That the NFL acted like they were above the law.

Now it seems the opposite is true. And what are some basing that on? A recorded tape from a source that is plainly trying to paint this story in one direction and does so by leaving out 6 minutes of an 11 minute video? An obviously slanted story that those 6 minutes probably wouldn't support?

One thing I can certainly tell you, the court system does everything possible to protect children. If there was any possible way they could convict Hill for child abuse they would.

Now I don't know what happened and I don't claim to. But it's about time the NFL stops suspending players upon accusations instead of evidence. It is odd how so many seem to be able to draw a conclusion even though a court system can't.

Heaven help anyone who has some of our posters on a jury. Because beyond a reasonable doubt certainly wouldn't apply.

I really don't want to defend Hill. I was just trying to add some balance to the conversation and provide some food for thought.

I know a con when I hear one and that woman was definitely trying to play Hill in that video. That doesn't mean Hill is innocent, but she might have been covering her own butt. I don't know.

The NFL was wrong for suspending Zeke. They railroaded him and I posted articles that proved that when it all went down.

I just think that we need to be very careful about taking away someone's employment due to allegations. I also think that we should expect employers to hand out punishment instead of law enforcement.

I do think Hill is a piece of crap and he might even be guilty. I just don't think it's wise to punish people due to allegations and/or when law enforcement decides to not pursue the matter.

I would like to bow out now because I don't want my points to be misconstrued and having people think I am defending Hill.

So happy for due process in this case.

When the authorities said "they believe a crime was committed." Just can not prove it because there don't have a witness and can not say who did it. Well given their history and confessions from their past. And the fact they were there and no one else was. What conclusion is most likely? How about one of them or both? But that can't be decided in a court.

Yet the "parents" don't have custody. They have enough to take custody away from the parents.

What about the victim? A three year old whose arm got broken. And gets punched in the chest for discipline and gets hit with a belt. So he learns how to respect them.

Listen to them on the tape. Listen to what they say and how they say it.

I am fine with being a vigilante in this case. I hope somehow some way these scum face real justice for their actions.

A three old with the bruises and x-rays to show what happened to him is in foster care. While the parents walk and Hill gets paid to play football while the courts decide.

You seem to be confusing the victim with the suspect. I'm a firm believer in Justice. I'm also a firm believer in beyond a reasonable doubt.

Often times family and the public form a preconceived notion about someone's guilt to the point they actually want justice so badly that sometimes the innocent end up in their cross hairs.

I heard the exact same thing you are saying from all across the nation in the JonBenét Ramsey case and people were ready to crucify her parents. Well they ended up being wrong.

Now I'm not trying to profess Hill's innocence here. What I do know is there isn't even enough evidence to bring the case to trial much less get a conviction. And it may be wise for people to get their emotions out of it enough that they don't sound and act like judge, jury and executioner.

I am not confusing a thing.

I made it as clear as possible. Just because they are unable to prove it because of the circumstances of the case. Does not excuse what happened and what happened in the past.

There is a clear pattern.

I get due process. At the same time I don't there can be any misinterpretation of what happened.

The NFL and the Chiefs could have acted.

They did not. There lies the hypocrisy.

What rights does the three year old get?

Hopefully due process will lead to justice. As of now, the child is being protected from those you presume to be guilty.

So you feel the NFL should take action on something that hasn't been proven?

That's been the problem all along. They've taken action against players who did little to nothing in the past.

And hasn't what's happened in the past already been addressed in the past?

So it's your assertion that people be judged on something now, based on what happened in their past?

I'm sure glad that's not how it's supposed to work. I was a real problem to some extent when I was younger. But all that has changed.

Who else was there when the events took place?

A three year old and his parents.

Any other case is irrelevant. Your case or any others.

This case is what matters.

The NFL under code of conduct can act. The only shame is they can't break his arms.

The tape. What was discussed. The tone and subject matter. Was any other people involved in their discussion? Was there any mention of a baby sitter or relative?

A three year old and his parents. Bruises and a broken arm on the three year old. A history and confession by Hill for punching and choking her.

My assertion is documentation that the child was abused. No one involved but the parents. So the courts can not determine which person it was. So they take custody.

Clearly under their charter of "code of conduct" they can act.

Let's just say one or the other did it. No one else implicated. Both then are responsible. Because as parents it is up to them to protect the child.

What matters here is the child. The parents are scum. If I sat in judgement as king both would have their arms broken. And if the child was ever harmed again by either they would be put down. Simple.

So today because it is he said she said. The child is under foster care. He doesn't get to speak. He only gets to be terrified of his father.

I am done with this. Nothing left to say. I hope some day that POS gets what he deserves.

Totally agree. The police said they believe a crime did occur (which rules out an accident), but there's not enough evidence to determine who committed the crime. It was determined that the only people present were the parents. What this means is that Hill broke the little boy's arm, or at the very least he didn't protect the boy from the person that did it. Tell me that doesn't warrant a suspension.

Give it up ... Pitt can be a wee bit hard headed at times ...

He still thinks OJ is innocent ...

To him the amount of smoke here does not mean theres a fire ... the smoke just appeared out of thin air and tyreek is guilty of nothing in this he said/she said even though the child broke his arm and abuse is a re-occurring theme with him ... he’s just mis understood ...

There are different burdens of proof.

In aa criminal case there needs to be "Beyond a shadow of a doubt". However, in a civil case it only needs to be 50.1% to 49.9%

Just because the courts cannot prove beyound that shadow of doubt doesn't mean the NFL (or people on this board) can't be more than 50.1% certain.

Pulling down a woman’s top is inexcusable and I have no issues with Zeke’s punishment there, though it was likely for multiple actions as Zeke just can’t seem to stay out trouble.

Plaxico got 4 games for having a firearm in a restaurant, which is against the law in NY, or wherever he was. He got arrested for having the gun, not for shooting himself. Shooting himself is how he got caught with the gun.

That said, this Tyreek thing stinks. I also read somewhere how Goodell and the NFL want Josh Gordon on the field. Of course they do.

Good point Jester. Many people don’t quite get this concept. Civil cases are so much easier to win

No, you have to prove it "beyond a reasonable doubt". Not beyond a "shadow of a doubt".

In this case they felt they didn't even have enough evidence to try the case. Much less get a conviction. And nobody is talking about trying this case in civil court. Which is called a preponderance of the evidence.



No, that certainly does not rule out an accident. They didn't say a crime did occur. They said they believe a crime did occur. You guys are quick to take what someone believes or feels as enough to prosecute someone.

Diam, No I don't think O.J. is innocent. You see, they actually felt they had enough evidence to take him to trial. I saw that evidence. In this case, they didn't even have enough evidence to take it to trial so all people are going on is a tape.

I don't even know if Hill is innocent or guilty. But I do know a lot of people are convicting him without so much as a trial.

It's a sign of the times in which we live.

I really wanted to leave this thread, but I don't think it is a good point in regards to this particular thread topic.

What does Civil Court have to do w/what the NFL should do? It is a fool's task to take away a person's right to work w/out proof of a criminal act.

Playing in the NFL isn't a job that requires high moral character. You don't want people w/questionable backgrounds in professions like teaching or the clergy, but it would be a colossal mistake to take away a person's right to work due to the allegation of a crime.

Some see the bigger picture and some want to crucify. Unless he played for the Browns, of course. LOL

J/C

People keep saying things like "beyond a shadow of doubt" and that he has a right to work unless its proven.

The NFL is not a court. The NFL is a business and employer, and they have th right to tell said employee, you are not wanted here after these allegations.

People lose their jobs for talking smack on social media, yet some think its an outrage he would get suspended for this? I don't get it.

If I recall, there wasn't much evidence against Zeke, yet he was suspended. Wasn't there a guy that was just suspended and his GF said it was all made up? I think with the Redskins - maybe I am wrong.

Fact is, the NFL has every right to suspend him - and should have. they acted with their wallets, not their heads.

J/c .... ... talk about struggling with 0 + 0 ...


JARRAN REED
DL, SEATTLE SEAHAWKS

NFL suspended Seahawks DT Jarran Reed six games for violating the league's personal conduct policy.

Reed was accused of domestic violence in 2017. He was never charged or even arrested, but unlike the Tyreek Hill situation, the league evidently found enough evidence of its own to hand down a ban. Since the incident, Reed has emerged as a disruptive interior presence. He exploded for 10.5 sacks in 2018. His loss will be massive for the fire-and-brimstone 'Hawks, especially since Frank Clark has been traded. 2019 is a contract year for the 26-year-old.

SOURCE: Ian Rapoport on Twitter
Jul 22, 2019, 1:08 PM ET

Hmm, don’t we play Seattle in Week 6?

Ya, we play them in week 6 ... and thats good ... it is a bummer that the stilers and rats play them while he’s suspended also ... oh well, guess u can’t have it all ...

jc

I still think this guy never should have been allowed in the league, based on the following incident/guilty plea:

Yup, and when the NFL office notices that, the suspension will be reduced to 5 games.

This is interesting. I wonder if the NFL investigated Hill's case and determined it was the mother who broke the boy's arm?

Well, if that is true, the NFL should forward their evidence to the cops.

I would imagine the cops have more info than the NFL does and they did not see enough information that led them to press charges against either party.

So you were being sarcastic?

No, not at all. I'm saying that apparently law enforcement and the NFL both determined that there was not enough evidence to prosecute/punish Hill.

It's not about what people think. It's about what the DA can prove.

Thank God for that

Hill and the wife were the only ones present when it happened, right?

This is interesting:

j/c

The biggest difference between the Reed and Hill cases is that the NFL was able to get information from people in Reeds case. Whether that is through the police or their own investigators. In Hills case, no one is talking and the police cannot give out any information. So I agree with Pit that when it comes to abusing the child, Hill should not be suspended by the NFL. That does not satisfy my idea of justice. Especially for the child... I think it sucks, but it is the right thing for due process.

Personally I would like to see them being taken to trial jointly. They can use their fifth amendment right all they want. It does not preclude them from a guilty verdict. And if they are both facing a prison term...who knows...one of them may rat the other out.

With that said I think the article posted concerning the tape is absolutely correct. I think the tape is reason enough to suspend Hill on the basis of a verbal threat of implied violence.

I don't know why Hill isn't suspended...I mean Josh Gordon never hurt a fly outside of himself...And the NFL drove the bus over him and then backed up (of course they did also try to help him). But when looking at others like Mixon, Hunt, Reed, Elliott, Brady etc. I do think the consistency with which the NFL doles out its suspensions should definitely be questioned.

Gordon's problem was doing the same thing over, and over and over again.

"Reed was accused of domestic violence ..."

"Reed has emerged as a disruptive interior presence."


Interesting word choices in almost back to back sentences...

I agree, not the "best" example...But his punishments have been far more severe than those who have been violent. I think that is I would want someone to get out of the imperfect example.

I don't really disagree with your premise. And it is an indication of just how much the powerful are concerned with controlling you.

It makes their priorities obvious.

Like a comedian said,"You can't fix stupid." The repeaters are real problems, and expect folks to buy into whatever their rationalizations or justifications seem to be. I can be supportive; that is not to say that well is bottomless. Tyreek may fall into this category.

So much for your theory Pete ....


JARRAN REED
DL, SEATTLE SEAHAWKS

The Bellevue, Was. prosecuting attorney did not pursue domestic violence charges against Seahawks DT Jarran Reed in 2017 because he felt there was "insufficient evidence to prove the crime occurred."

The Bellevue PD recommended a fourth-degree assault charge, but Reed was never arrested or charged. Washington law enforcement could not gather the necessary evidence, but the NFL's investigators apparently did. The league has not elaborated on the findings that led it to hand down a six-game suspension.

SOURCE: Seattle Times
Jul 23, 2019, 7:34 PM ET

So, the NFL suspended him based on their own findings and not the legal system’s?

I also find it odd that a "former teacher" is personally ok with a child abuser to be playing in the NFL and not reprimanded.

Yet nobody has proven he's a child abuser.

I just heard MMQB's Albert Breer on local sports talk and he made a good point, IMO. Breer said that the difference between the Tyreek Hill case and other domestic abuse cases is that the alleged victim(s) did not cooperate with authorities or the NFL. One of the alleged victims wasn't questioned because they are 3 years old and in the care of child protective services, and the other (a victim because of Hill's threat to her after assaulting her in the past) - the child's mother - chose not to cooperate. Breer said (I'm paraphrasing) that Goodell sent a clear message to future domestic abusers in the league: threats and coercion work if you want to avoid suspension.

j/c:

am i wrong for saying im not happy for him?

Nope. I hope this dude gets his ish straight before something really stupid happens.

Good for him, and that’s with hoping that he stays on the right path

J/C

That contract I bet is about 8 inches thick with contingencies.