So we are still not hitting

I don't like JRam in the #2 spot. I think he is too good an RBI guy and shiule be batting somewhere in the 3-5 spots

Tribe now in a 2nd place tie with the Sox, 1 game out of 1st with 1 game to play.

We should have the tie breaker with the Sox right? Head to head we win that!

My TV might not survive an Adam Cimber appearance in any of these games.

In the meantime, who's our backup 1B after Santana?

Freeman, and Reyes has played 1st as well.

Not to be argumentative, but neither of those guys has any meaningful experience at 1B. Reyes played 3 games at 1B and that was in Rookie League and low A League in 2012 and 2015. Never played it in the majors. Freeman has played 1B three times in the bigs, and he's a .230 hitter, .645 OPS. Would it maybe make some sense to only carry 2 catchers instead of 3, and call up Jake Bauers or Bobby Bradley for backup at 1B and possible PH duty?

Lame. Was excited to watch this tonight. Nothing like losing early.

Tito isn't a 9 run difference, but I'm not sure I want Alomar managing this team permanently.

He was nervous. It looked like was close to hyperventilating.

It's hard to know how a guy will react to the pressure in his first appearance on the big stage.

My wife and I were watching the game and I pointed out how quick and deep his breaths were. I swear that it looked like he was close to hyperventilating. Hard to pitch effectively when you are battling your nerves like that.

The yankees batters grind the hell out of you too, he threw 105 pitches in just 4 innings and change

What a bad signing deshields was

Actually, he was part of the Kluber trade, along with Clase.

Carracco is erratic, our whole pitching staff forgets how to pitch as soon as playoffs start.

Absolutely horrible AB by Naquin.

Opportunity for Frankie to prove his worth.

Need to sell off some of this pitching for offense, simple as that

I've been checking in and out on the game .... and did I see right? We pulled our best hitter in this series, Josh Naylor, for Jordan Luplow???

Welp, no way we get 2+ runs on Chapman.

The Indians are known for their ability to develop pitchers throughout baseball. Their front office is very data driven and is able to cultivate pitchers and strengthen what they do well.

Until they get to the playoffs that is

The Tribe have now lost 8 straight playoff games and 10 straight elimination games.

Lovely.

The playoffs are a roll of the dice. As Billy Beane once said, “Out [poop] doesn’t work in the playoffs.”

Maybe if the owners were willing to spend money the Indians would have a better chance in the playoffs.

After a season w/o fans in the stands as a source of revenue, the Dolans will really seize this opportunity to slash payroll further.

Lindor traded.
Santana gone.
Hernandez gone.
Hand gone.
Jose Ramirez traded.

Renewing my season tickets now seems like a horrible mistake.

There’s certainly a good chance they keep Ramirez around. His final two years of his deal are club options.

I pointed him out as a possibility, because if you’re entering a rebuild, will the Indians FO see the point in keeping Ramirez around or max out his trade value?

Ouch.

Ouch.

Indians, biggest chocks in sports history.

How do you think the offeseason goes? This is my $.02.

1. Trade Lindor to the Dodgers for Gavin Lux and Dustin May.
2. Re-sign Caeser Hernandez
3. Decline option on Carlos Santana
4. Decline option on Brad Hand
5. Sign the best RF/OF with the money you save from Lindor/Santana/Hand
6. CUT Adam Cimber

Here’s my lineup:
1. Caeser Hernandez, 2B
2. Gavin Lux, SS
3. Jose Ramirez, 3B
4. Franmil Reyes, DH
5. Joc Pederson, RF, just throwing his name out there
6. Josh Naylor, LF
7. Bobby Bradley, 1B
8. Roberto Perez, C
9. Oscar Mercado, CF

Pitchers:
1. Shane Bieber
2. Carlos Carrasco
3. Zach Plesac
4. Aaron Civale
5. Dustin May

Bullpen:
Nick Wittgren
Emmanuel Clase
James Karinchak, him or Clase close.

So they’re cheaper than we even thought?

Or more broke than we thought.

The value of the franchise is not necessarily liquid. They could borrow against its equity value or they could sell it, but that is not the same thing as having the available funds that you are suggesting they have to use for player salaries.

The value of the franchise is not necessarily liquid. They could borrow against its equity value or they could sell it, but that is not the same thing as having the available funds that you are suggesting they have to use for player salaries.

They can afford Brad Hand.

The Indians make a profit??

Yup.

Since we don't spend, Dolan makes a profit on the team each and every year.

It's a garbage league compared to the others.

For awhile I was on the "we need a salary cap!" train, but then I realized it's just a distraction for small-market teams such as us and Pitt to make hand over fist in profit.
-----------

Dave,

I believe a lot of the NFL stuff is for player safety to minimize concussions and injuries.

Yes, because its so much fun to watch the NBA where 5 guys play one-on-one 82 nights a year. Dribble-dribble-dribble, and chuck up a step-back 30-footer. Yippe-ki-yay.

Or the NFL, where DBs can't even breathe on receivers without a flag, and you better not let your hand even touch the QB's helmet when trying to tackle him.

As far as I can tell, the only major sport that hasn't sold out, catered to, and knelt before their new altar - Offense - is hockey. I'm waiting now for the NHL to make the pipes an extra foot wider on either side of the goalie, or maybe just do away with that pesky blue line.

It'll happen too, because the dollars have gotten so big that sports franchise owners know that they MUST have the casual fans to make money, to the detriment of their sport, and at the expense of their fans who loved what their games used to be.

Sorry for the rant, but don't pretend that baseball is the only major sport to sell out.

The Rays were just in the World Series and are consistently one of the best teams in the league.

Capitalism is a hell of a thing.

Not a fan of this trade. Kind of a head scratch her to me.

Florida State’s pre-game ritual, a tribute to Chief Osceola on horseback, was developed in consultation with the Seminole Tribe. (Phelan M. Ebenhack/Associated Press)
By Chuck Culpepper
December 29, 2014

TALLAHASSEE — Given the 80-odd mostly white students, the occasional ball caps and tattoos, the Tuesday morning hush and the student quickly punching her phone for the time (10:30), this Room 208 could grace most any pretty campus. Only two things hint as to the whereabouts. The preponderance of shorts means this could be in Florida, and the professor’s subject matter means this must be Florida State.

“History of the Seminoles and Southeastern Tribes, Pre-Contact to Present” is an elective many have chosen because they’re “Seminoles” who wish to know more about real Seminoles than just the Florida State Seminoles, the football team for which they’ll root in a national semifinal against Oregon on New Year’s Day. So the details of Seminole history flow from the captivating voice of Andrew Frank, whose brain never seems to lose its place across 75 minutes.

He tells them it’s hard to look back through the past few centuries and peg when the Seminole Tribe self-identified as Seminoles, but they first centralized as a tribe in 1957. He tells how Seminole ancestors, including the tribe called Creeks, traveled by “dug-out canoe” because, “If you need to go 20 miles, better to float there than walk there.” He’s on his semester-long way toward modern day, when he again will inform students that modern-day Seminoles are adept businesspeople, and that the trappings of mascot-hood can fail miserably at accuracy.

He might even tell them, as he said in an interview, “It’s hard to imagine 4,000 people wielding real political power and economic clout, and they do so gracefully.”

The course — born in 2006, hatched right after the NCAA clamored about changing Native American mascots, conceived with input from the Seminole Tribe of Florida — doubles as epitome. It demonstrates the unusual bond between a 41,000-strong university way up in the Florida Panhandle and a 4,000-strong tribe that history shoved into the Everglades and below Lake Okeechobee and way down almost to Miami, some 400 miles from Room 208 of the HCB Classroom Building. It helps explain why, if Native American mascots keep ebbing in the United States through the 21st century, “Florida State Seminoles” could be the last one standing in the 22nd.
A Florida State Seminoles cheerleader runs with a flag bearing the team’s logo. (Ronald Martinez/Getty Images)

As a contrast to, say, Washington and the controversy over the Redskins name, any rancor with the Seminoles nickname has gone deluged in conciliation and cooperation.

“It’s an absolute reverence,” said Myron Rolle, the 28-year-old former Florida State safety and Rhodes Scholar. “It’s a reverence where the spirit, the unconquered nature of the internal values and ethos of these people, FSU tries to embody that. I love the way it’s intertwined.”

“I just feel a huge amount of honor,” said Justin Motlow, a freshman walk-on wide receiver who just became possibly the first Seminole Tribe member to play football for Florida State.

“I think it was a learning process for both parties,” Louise Gopher, an elder in the Seminole Tribe of Florida, wrote in an e-mail.

“I’m never under-enrolled,” said Frank.
A fascinating culture

At Florida State’s fall commencement on Dec. 13, the keynote speaker and honorary-doctorate recipient was Gopher, the Seminole Tribe of Florida’s first female college graduate (1970, Florida Atlantic). “I don’t think my feet have touched the ground yet on receiving an honorary degree,” she wrote in an e-mail.

As Florida State administrators altered the sports teams’ logo and fashion last spring, they consulted the tribe, and new patchwork appeared on jersey sleeves. Tribe leaders who visit Tallahassee know both the president’s yard and the stadium’s cheers.
Two Seminole Native Americans named Heni Yahula, known as Cowdow Billie, and Hia-Et-Tee, known as Annie Tiger kiss after they were married in front of members of their tribe in Miami on March 16, 1930. (AP Photo/Associated Press)

For Florida State’s national title game against Auburn last January in Pasadena, Calif., a Seminole Tribe of Florida jet stopped in Tallahassee to collect Bobby Bowden, the retired 34-season head coach at Florida State, and Bill Durham, the Tallahassee businessman who in the mid-1970s devised, and who still oversees, the cherished mascot concept of a “Chief Osceola” riding a horse onto the field during pregames. Durham, unprompted, says this: “How would it be if somebody comes in, knocks your door down again and says, ‘You’re out of here,’ then takes your precious metals and you have to move again? Basically, that’s what the white man did. We took this land away from Native Americans. We took it. We stole it. I’ve never understood why. I still can’t understand. My heart won’t allow me to.”

Last Mother’s Day weekend, Frank joined a few Florida State officials on a flight south, where they attended a powwow and a Tribal Council meeting and brought gifts that included women’s basketball uniforms. A flute player/storyteller visits Frank’s classroom every semester for no cost other than hotel and gasoline, and he stops off to stock up on Florida State apparel. Some students from Frank’s classes have gone on to internships with the tribe.

When Rolle sought to use his football stature to start a benevolent project, he consulted then-university president T.K. Wetherell, who suggested Rolle look into the Seminole Tribe. Rolle did so. He learned of obesity, hypertension and Type 2 Diabetes in Native American children, made that his project, spent 100-plus days at the three South Florida Seminole reservations, lectured children about vegetables, became something of a local hero and served as grand marshal in a parade.

Across the Atlantic at Oxford, he wrote his Rhodes medical anthropology thesis about North America. Title: “The Native-American Body: Internal and External Controls.”

“It just fascinates me, this culture,” he said.
Eliminating stereotypes

Rolle also notes that his brother, McKinley, a Florida high school football coach, graduated from St. John’s (N.Y.), which in 1994 changed its nickname from “Redmen” to “Red Storm.” That joined the decades of nickname exodus that have included Dartmouth (“Indians” to “Big Green”), Stanford (“Indians” to “Cardinal”), Miami of Ohio (“Redskins” to “Red Hawks”), Syracuse (“Orangemen” and “Orangewomen” to “Orange”), Utah (“Redskins” to “Utes”). When the University of North Dakota played the men’s ice hockey Frozen Four last spring in Philadelphia, it brought along no nickname.

North Dakotan voters overwhelmingly nixed the name “Fighting Sioux” in 2012. A new name will appear in 2015.

The same NCAA that aimed to scrub away the stereotyping granted a waiver to Florida State in 2005. It cited unique circumstances. Those included the partnership that stretches from Tallahassee to the six reservations near the base of the state, including Hollywood, Brighton and Big Cypress. While the Seminole nickname dates back to 1947, the partnership accelerated in 1976, after Bowden arrived to coach and Durham arrived to dine one night at Bowden’s house. The football program had no real national identity. When Durham suggested forging a tradition of a student horseman depicting the revered Chief Osceola (1804-38), with a seasoned student horseman riding out to the field with war paint and a spear, and Bowden agreed, Durham consulted the Tribe straight away. He asked Howard Tommie, the former tribal chairman, who said, “I’ll have ladies here at the reservation make your first regalia for you.”

“And so he did,” Durham said, “and he sent it on a Trailways bus.”

Through time and Seminole input, the university has made tweaks including, Frank noted, the discontinuation of a Sioux headdress for the Homecoming king. “Lots of changes took place outside the public view,” Frank said. “One of the things was there was a booster club, a group on campus that used to be called ‘Scalp Hunters,’ and they were the ones at the football games who would paint your face on the way in. Now they’re ‘Spirit Hunters.’ The name was changed, became remarkably innocuous, and I know there are groups out there that don’t call themselves ‘Spirit Hunters,’ but they’re not the official group on campus anymore. And ‘Spirit Hunters,’ how hard is that?”

Wrote Gopher, “FSU in earlier times was showing the Seminoles in feathers and war bonnets, which they never wore, and with caricature faces. We were being stereotyped with what was seen on the movies and television. Now Florida State University makes sure that the Seminoles are not depicted in a disrespectful manner in any way. They check with the Tribe for accuracy of any changes they make.”

Historical oddities do linger. Stadium rituals include fans “war-chanting” and using arms for “tomahawk-chopping.” “We also understand that some of it is for show, such as the horse, Renegade, and the flaming spear, and we are okay with it,” Gopher said. Around town, Native American iconography still appears on some local businesses such as vacuum repair. A restaurant at the edge of campus goes by the name Tomahawk’s, which baffled some scholars visiting Florida State for a conference.

Things don’t get removed from history. They are perceived differently the farther we get from the moment.

Why is "history" always being punished for not having some magical foresight and knowing how I may be feeling now, hundreds of years later?

I am a Cleveland Indians fan.

There's a vast difference in punishing history and setting things right. It's never too late to fix a mistake and never too early either.

So you're more of a fan of a name that the game of baseball itself?

Come on, YTown. You're better than that.
------------------------

I dealt with red sambo while that was around and still cheered for the team. I cheered because I enjoy the game of baseball. I cheered because I could somehow rationalize that I was doing my part without wearing merchandise that had red sambo on it.

So you're more of a fan of a name that the game of baseball itself?

Come on, YTown. You're better than that.
------------------------

I dealt with red sambo while that was around and still cheered for the team. I cheered because I enjoy the game of baseball. I cheered because I could somehow rationalize that I was doing my part without wearing merchandise that had red sambo on it.

Imagine that tomorrow the people of your state decided to rename it "Trump". Surely you'd stay, because you love the state, and people, more then the name, right?

This isn't a shock, and I think it will be for the better.

And let's not pretend that the Indians have some rich history of excellence. Yes, right now, they have good people in the scouting and developing departments of the team, but this organization once went 40 years between playoff appearances, and hasn't won a title in a million years. This isn't the Yankees changing their name, it's not.

I applaud whatever they decide to do.

I bet the Dolans are excited, new merchandising opporunities. They can take all the current stuff that doesn't fit the criteria and sell it 20% of to kids in underprivileged countries.

I don't think this is cancel culture, or the wussification of america. I think this is just doing things the right way.

I’m not a huge fan of Spiders ... I really haven’t heard many that I’ve liked much.

It’s not a popular one or a likely one, but I like Blue Sox for two reasons:

- Shorten it to Blues as homage to music
- It’d give the AL the red, white, and blue Sox ... a good shout out to the “American” League

move forward to determine a new name that will better unify our community

Mixed emotions. In some ways I do not like parting from the history of the team.

At the same time I understand the intent.

In the end it is baseball and the city of Cleveland that counts. Like Washington's Football Team it will pass and become a new standard.

I like the name Cleveland White Caps. It is a good Lake Erie reference.
=====================================================

I live right outside Atlanta. I am also a Braves fan.

Ownership in this case a corporation has made it clear. They will not change the name. And have no intention of removing the tomahawk logo.

My college degree was in anthropology in pre-history of North America. I am very sensitive to Native American culture.

See no reason to change the Braves name. The team has made a real effort to reach out to the Native American Community. Their feedback was the name Braves is not derogatory.

I doubt the KC Chiefs will change either.

Could not agree more. So is removing statues punishing history or setting things right? I guess that's the sticking point. It seems like, with a lot of these issues people prefer sweeping things under a rug rather than education, probably just me. I'm speaking in terms beyond the scope of this thread, and I shouldn't be. Don't want to argue, your statement makes perfect sense.

While I'm sad to see the Indians name abandoned, there are a few nicknames I wouldn't mind

Since we were always called "The Forest City" because we have so many trees in our city neighborhoods, and also because the Cleveland Metroparks form an "emerald necklace" that circles the city from the Rocky River reservation on the west side to the North Chagrin reservation way over on the far east side, we could name them the Lumberjacks, and shorten it to Jacks. (Get it? Lumber : Wood Bats, Jacks : Homeruns.)

Or, for a nautical spin, name them the Captains, shortened to Caps.

Bulldogs wouldn't suck.

I'd also be okay with honoring the Negro Leagues from the 40's and 50's, with either the Buckeyes, Comets, or Monarchs.

Other possibilities, just because I like alliteration: Coyotes, Cougars, Cobras, Condors.

Just please, no Spiders, no Rockers, no Naps.

+1

The Cleveland baseball team is better known for it's long non-title drought and losing in extra innings of game 7 in the WS, amazingly twice! So yeah, change the name, change the colors...get that stink off the team.

For those that don't want to buy the new merch, don't. Heck, call them the "Tribe" or "Indians" until the day you die. Nobody will care. If you want to root for a baseball team in Cleveland, they're still here. I don't see this as a big deal. Heck, the Browns moved away and came back in three years and 99% of everyone didn't miss a beat. This team isn't leaving, just changing their name.

I've moved on from following baseball. I don't think it was a conscious decision, but after 2016, I stopped following. After they kept losing in the playoffs, I just stopped caring. Mix in the Astros bullcrap and I never came back. Honestly, I didn't know the Indians made the playoffs or what place they were in all throughout the pandemic season. I heard they lost the first game in the series, that was my first update of the season. I've replaced my baseball time with Formula 1. My wife and I are addicts at this point.

I would say though, announcing you've made the decision to then make a future decision on a new name seems odd. What have you been doing all these months? You need another whole year to come up with a name? All you needed was one press release yesterday or a year from now, "From now on, we're known as <insert name here>."

Yes, but when you call them Native Americans it sounds like they may have been here first and that we slaughtered them and took their land. Oh, wait a minute. Never mind.

Everyone has been talking about the Spiders, but that seems a little hokey.

I guess if you call genocide and stealing a continent from its indigenous people the same as people starting a civil war you have a point. I mean if Russia were to invade the United states and we fought back, would you consider that a bad thing?

I guess if you call genocide and stealing a continent from its indigenous people the same as people starting a civil war you have a point. I mean if Russia were to invade the United states and we fought back, would you consider that a bad thing?

With respect, it doesn't matter what you mean. Sitting Bull and others killed many US Soldiers at Little Big Horn.

You can't pick and choose when it is OK and when it isn't.

Why is "history" always being punished for not having some magical foresight

With respect, it doesn't matter what you mean. Sitting Bull and others killed many US Soldiers at Little Big Horn.

You can't pick and choose when it is OK and when it isn't.

FATE, my friend: it's not "History being punished." It's simply History continuing to be written.

New chapters, new names. New memories to be made.

You did a much better job of describing the situation than I did .. well done. Maybe if we also put it content with all we witnessed from Cancel Culture this year on top of everything else.

Personally, I am quite happy with the name change. It is offensive to Native Americans and as such should be changed. If the team was called the "Cleveland N-word's" would you be ticked the name was being changed? It is the right thing to do and I am glad they are finally doing so. I support the teams from this area. The Cleveland area. As someone said above, if the Browns had come back under another name I would still be a fan of OUR team regardless of the name. I will still cheer for the Cleveland Baseball team regardless of whatever new name is chosen. Doing the right thing is more important than a name.

j/c:



This makes 107 outfielders for the Indians.

Never good when your resume highlight is a below-league-average stat.

Like the kid at the high school sports banquet and the coach touts what a good student he/she was in the classroom.

Eric Wedge would say he's a "grinder", a "glue-guy", good in the clubhouse, doesn't get cheated at the plate, blah-blah-blah.

So....he "battles"?

Do you think Bradley can hit in the Major's ?

Only one way to find out. He's hit at every level of the minors, but its a big jump from AAA to the bigs.

https://www.baseball-reference.com/register/player.fcgi?id=bradle000bob

His first go at it wasn't so hot.

His first go at it wasn't so hot.

Only one way to find out. He's hit at every level of the minors, but its a big jump from AAA to the bigs.

https://www.baseball-reference.com/register/player.fcgi?id=bradle000bob

Yeah, but it was less than 50 AB.

I remember when they took a look at farmhand Jesus Aguilar a few years ago and he was pretty unimpressive. They shipped him out and he's had a few decent seasons - and one monster season - with the Brewers and Marlins.

Even if he struggles, it would be better than watching Jake Bauers roll into another 4-3 groundout, or 4-6-3 double play.