Stefanski is the worst. Even the announcers were criticizing him.

Sure glad the players got up for him.

Next year is already doomed.

Some of the worst play calling all season. Pass crazy with sub zero wind chills and 30mph winds against one of the worst run Defenses. Absolutely inexcusable.

Best thing that happened was losing, the more winnable we games we lose by bad coaching decisions the better the chance we have of gettting rid of the the cancer that is this staff

This was a bad, ugly loss. We suck

inexcusable 4th down call.

Tough smart accountable . Funniest 3 words in the English language as it relates to this team.

If we had nfl average talent at wr and te this was a win. Despite the horrid playcalling

Why would you pay to watch this as they can't execute on offense.

Maybe Dee Haslam, or Jimmy Haslam can explain why they can't average ten points with their offense over 4 games.

Good first half. In the second half our offense couldn't do much at all. Sad.

Regardless, Merry Christmas everybody!

The Saints passed 15 times. It was almost like they realized that running the ball was the key in sub-zero weather with strong winds. I blame whoever did not tell Stefanski about the weather predictions.

I have been a supporter of Ski. But that play calling on the 3rd/4th and 2 made me mad. You have Chubb. Give it to Chubb!! He was gashing them.

It was an awful play...

Overall pretty disappointing game... felt we should have won... lots of dropped passes... defense played well overall... tough game...

He is an abysmal play caller. I can’t think of any NFL coach that can’t outcoach him, either with schemes and adjustments or with fiery inspiration. He just doesn’t have it.

3 points against the Texans
I0 against Cincy
I3 against Baltimore
and I0 against the saints today. Four Games Thirty six points from the offense.
NINE point average over 4 games, and this with the hollow superman at @uarterback.

Whomever is responsible for the offense? THIS SUCKS x 2.

Getting beat by Taysom Hill

Tight End

Special Teams

QB

They opened with a 3 and out, and punted on the first 3 poss. if not 4.
Merry Christmas

The defense overall, played good enough to win. The offense was another story. To get beat in our own house, in poor weather conditions, by a dome stadium team, is inexcusable. We should have been able to run over these guys....

Stefanski refuses to play Chubb on 99.9% of 3rd and 4th downs.

Cooper drop for a TD, DPJ drop for the game tying TD followed by Njoku drop for the game tying TD.

Watson throwing 31 times in 30mph winds with -15 degree wind chills

Chubb on the bench on 3rd and 4th downs ALL season

Run defense gave up 152 more yards vs gaining 124 yards.

Play calling some of the worst of the season. Outside of the Watson running TD, no designed QB runs.

Absolutely boring Offense that can't score more that 13 points since Watson took over.

:sigh
sad.

Honestly, did any of us really expect them to win today and make our Christmas a little bit merrier? I didn't and I got just what I expected. Don't let it ruin your holiday like they've ruined so many other days. Merry Christmas to all my fellow Dawgtalkers and Browns fans!!! !!

Stefanski at his best. Better get used to him and Berry another season because more incompetent organization then this is hard to find these days.

Myles Garrett for the Saints first and right to Payton?

I challenge anyone to name 5 head coaches you'd take Stefanski over. Can you come up with even 5 names? Dude just got outcoached by Dennis freaking Allen who brought a severely injured, shorthanded dome team to the elements and Sterfanski still couldn't win...while having so much to play for trying to stay alive in the playoffs.

4th best head coach in his division. Bottom 5 head coach in the NFL. Has gotten worse every year. About 5 games ago, teams started completely ignoring the pass and only playing the run and he is yet to adjust.

He is simply one of the worst head coaches since the return considering the talent he has to work with.

Get rid of Depo, Berry, and Sterfanski. Hire Payton, let him pick his GM,.and let's go on a 3 to 4 year run. He already has a bona-fide DC lined up in Fangio.

This trust in Sterfanski is absolutely deflating as a fan. He had three seasons to show what he's got. He squandered them. Time to move on.

The reality is Chubb isn't a good 3rd down or short yardage back.

how do we lose to a Dome team from Louisiana in these elements at our house? Answer: Stefanski

This could not be further from the truth. This is one of those things that got said on here and is now repeated as some type of fact.

One of the biggest problems with Stefanski is I guarantee you he doesn't believe the 4th and 2 play was a bad play call, just bad execution.

Please, please, please can we move on. I don't want to go into next year with no hope.

I was always under the assumption that when the weather worsens and you have a good RB/TE combo you should lean on them

shoot me into the sun. another year another sadness.

Would have liked to have seen Watson run a bit more like he did the first half

Also I know Stefanski is taking a lot of heat

Two very crucial drops by Amari and the Chief on the last drive that could have had the game tied up

Haslams. The Haslams.

They have been, arguably, the worst owners in league history. They entrench when they should revamp and they bail when they should support.

I honestly think that depodesta is the problem. Haslams have given this clown the keys with impunity and what has he done?

The “core” of this team that everyone talks about as being so damn good, was built by Dorsey. Aside from baker (and Freddy ) Dorsey was the MAN. Berry had sucked. This team is currently over-paid, under-talented, terribly coached and without draft picks. Your cap situation is going to become unmanageable in the next years. You literally couldn’t be in a worse scenario.

This team is garbage and management has ensured that we will continue to be garbage for the next 4-5 years.

I blame the Haslams. The people they have running this team, from top to bottom, are absolute jokes - in the enduring Cleveland Browns tradition.

Merry chistmas all.

KS is, for whatever reason, calling the lowest percentage plays for the situation he's in. It's dumbfounding.

KS is, for whatever reason, calling the lowest percentage plays for the situation he's in. It's dumbfounding.

It's worth pointing out twice. It's happened all year and it's happened in previous years. Some blame the players for failing to execute - others think asking your back up QB to come in and throw a perfect 30 yard pass (previous game) is smart, or like today in unfavorable cold and wind conditions isn't a sign of an elite play caller let alone a Head Coach. .... just ugh.

The Patriots and the Titans both lost, if the Browns had won today, they'd still be behind the chargers but we could be rooting for the colts, either way, the Browns lost so.
The offense couldn't execute.

I feel like KS always wants to break tendency and go against the grain

He's outsmarting himself.

He's smarter than all the other coaches in the NFL.

Pretty funny how Many Homer's had this game as a automatic
Win in the schedule game a few months ago

How can you say that when he is never on the field on 3rd and 4th downs? Chubb can make something out of nothing more times that not.

"You've got to factor in the conditions," Watson said. "(We) Didn't want to throw it too much down the field...try to run."

Watson - 31 passing attempts
Dalton - 15 passing attempts

I see a lot of people complaining about dropped passes. The temp was the worst in Cleveland Browns history. -13 0n the field. It was bitter cold in that stadium. You don't think our guys hands were cold? They probably couldn't even feel their fingers let alone catch a football.

That's why if we had a coach with half a brain, with these conditions, this was a day to run the ball as much as possible. The wind was blowing which a normal coach would say "that's gonna affect throwing the ball too". But our pass happy coach just keeps on flinging them.

If the Haslams don't let him go they deserve every game they lost this year and next year. If I were the owner, half the coaching staff would be job hunting come January.

Which half of the coaching staff would be safe if you were the owner?

He isn't a good straight line runner. Hit the hole and get a yard or two. He also isn't a plus pass catcher. he is better off tackle and cutting back in to seams.
That is hard to do in short yardage situations with teams selling out. That's how I can say that.

That doesn't mean iI don't like the guy.

That would make a good new thread

The owners may keep coaches

It's the new HC that comes in that makes the final staff

Why is the Browns fan base the only fanbase that gripes
About how many carries their #1 RB gets per game ?
I doubt they complain in B-more about Dobbins and Edward's
Or in Dallas with Elliot and Pollard or Cincy with Mixon and Perine.
Some Browns fans think it's still 2010. Offenses that
Put points on the board are driven by passing

First, you are wrong. My Ravens friends are constantly complaining about Roman and the play calling and they want him fired. Primary complaint is they don't run enough.

Also, Bengals 11-4, Ravens 10-5 ( and winning with backup QB). If the Browns were winning, most people wouldn't be as concerned with "how" but when you're losing everybody wants to speculate on why.

I think we really have to take a long look at what needs to be done to maximize Watson. Whether that’s scheme, play calling, personnel, etc

Look.. Can anyone really say that the Browns this year come out prepared, fired up and full of fight every game? No!!.. So who's job is that?? And how many times does the offensive coordinator for the Browns calls plays that head scratchers, wrongly timed, and usually not converted?? BTW, that same offensive coordinator has a offense that has not scored over 13pts since Watson came back. We all see that his play calling is never consistent. We know where the problem with the Browns lie, and it starts with the head coach!

My point being is that if Nick Chubb got the ball
30 times a game the fan base would still
Gripe he isn't getting the ball 37 times
Ravens fans are complaining about Roman not
Being imaginative enough and there is no
Sizzle in the vertical passing game
Nothing would make Browns fans happier
Than the QB taking the snap , pivot and hand off
To Chubb 54 times a game

Yea,,, but on the coldest day of the year, Kevin dialed up more passes than runs!!... Also, how come we never during the whole game went 2 TE or bring in a extra lineman and go unbalanced running on one side? Or how about a draw play or a designed check down pass to a back?? Kevins play calling is so predictable is painful to watch sometimes.

I was kinda glancing at the Pats game today
At BW3s...Joe Burrow threw the ball 35 times
By HALF TIME in extreme cold conditions
Mac Jones threw it 40 times by games end I think
It's funny to think if it's really cold out
You have by rule throw it under 20 times
And run it 58 times.

I said this earlier but it bears repeating. Teams don't care about the Browns passing game. They are willing to roll the dice on the passing game and live with the results because st the end of the day they just don't fear it. This started about 5 games ago. Teams simply focus on stopping the run. That's it. Just stop the run. It doesn't appear Stefanski has any answers for it. A little concerning considering Watson came back 4.games ago.

I mentioned Payton earlier but that's a pipe dream considering the comp that would be required. Would love Harbaugh. You simply can't go into next year hoping Stefanski becomes competent. You can't trust the careers of the players and staff to hope.

We are REGULARLY behind the sticks after his first down play selection. "Third and two" haunted us today. We have some plays which aren't working well but being called repeatedly. Ski's play calling isn't generating wins; it is predictable; I suspect his judgment. Surely MANY coaches as OC play callers could equal his point production. The drops and flags are problems. This team may not be worse now than the "shoulda won" games early in the season, but it would be arguable which is the pick of that litter.
Are we better now? Have we shown the growth that needed to happen moving forward that gets mentioned after every loss? Especially by Ski? I do not understand the premium he places on "taking ownership" of losses. Why should that matter to any fan? Personally, I am sick of these post-loss interviews with these kumbiyah moments and rosy assurances that XXX will learn YYY and get the win ZZZ after they have learned from the mistake and corrected the same. I think we have lowered the bar considerably this season. We cannot reliably beat even the ones we should. The status quo is sacred. Why he is still calling plays is beyond me. Change something. We are wasting this overly-hyped roster. At least fail in new directions trying to solve problem issues we fall to weekly. Living in Ground Hog Day many weekends. Thank you, sir, and may I have another?

Merry Christmas to you and yours 3rd!

I felt like Stefanski heard the narrative that we run it too much on 2nd and long and he just did the opposite today haha. We just have zero rhythm and consistency. The entire year has been a mess

He is simply the worst. I hope we lose the last two games huge so Haslam has no choice. You have to send Stefanski and Depo packing. See if Harbaugh will sign off on Berry.

Look, this has to be a very attractive job with a franchise qb in his prime as well plenty of talent throughout the roster. Coaches should be calling the Browns telling them they want to come here. You have negatives in Depo and Haslam which could impact that but geez don't blow this opportunity to get a real coach here. It will never be more attractive than it is now.

Don't worry. When they lose out the coaching staff and FO are all gone.

The Payton/Fangio combo is really enticing, however I’m not sure they’d want to be here (or if we have the ammo to trade New Orleans)

Payton won't come with Depo here and might not come with Berry here.

The last two games will have zero bearing on Stefanski returning. He's coming back, as is DePo. Haslam does not allow a deal like Conklin's to happen if the whole gang isn't returning.

Woods will be gone. His defense has been bad.

At most, Stefanski will do what Nick Sirianni did 2/3 of the way through his first season as HC, and give up play-calling duties to become more of a CEO. Personally, this would surprise me nut not an impossibility.



The Joe Woods Experience.





Merry Christmas to all!

Yeah he’d have to be the GM (or help hire his guy)

Plaster this across the board. The Browns will regret giving Stefanski another season.

I am always right about this stuff.

Did they ?

It's certainly possible Stefanski fails in 2023 and ultimately gets fired. The real fun starts when J-Dubs is heading up the HC search committee!

J-Dubs and Jimmy were "yes" votes on Kitchens.

I try not to think about J-Dubs. I hope Haslam lives to be 110 years old. And that's saying something.

Brighter future...Steelers culture/organization/ownership, Tomlin, Pickett...or Browns culture/organization/ownership, Stefanski, Watson?

Can't believe I'm even asking this.

LMAO. Is Woods even trying anymore?

He's averaged 4.9 yards a carry on 3rd down for his career.

Same back at you SB!

That is a wonderful stat. It still doesn't make him a good short yardage, 3rd down back. I also see us running more RPO's. I don't think he is a good back in that type of O.

People keep talking about Peyton as some miraculous coaching solution, but have what did he do without Drew Brees, we only have one 9-8 season to know.

It's to the point that some of you are actually hoping we lose so you can further your agenda. We win last week and the Post Game thread is quiet. We win 3 out of 4 and people diss our opponents or say nothing at all. We lose and the board lights up.

Some coaches have personalities that infect their teams with a will to win. Some are genius play callers who draw up brilliant game plans and make astute halftime adjustments. A few can do it all. What exactly does Stefanski do well?

I have a legit question about the man vs zone coverage thing that people are bringing up. I love Burns and his analysis, but what is his point? Are folks really arguing that man coverage is superior to zone coverage? LOL........it's not. Not even close, especially in today's NFL where there are so many dual-threat qbs.

I agree, not to mention that the rules in place make it very difficult to play man coverage. Dixson and Minnifield would be bums in todays NFL.

I think most teams mix it up. There are various zone coverages and then there is Cover 0 and Cover 1 in man. Cover 3 has some man tendencies w/their outside corners, but good QBs will destroy teams that play too much Man. Earlier this year, I posted the percentages of which teams play the most Man. They were ranked from 1-32. The better defenses [by a wide margin] play more zone and less man. That may have changed over the course of the year, but I doubt it changed too much. For example, Buffalo played more zone than anyone.

The real key for all of this is to give the offense one look presnap and then play another post snap. That's what causes confusion and keeps offenses off-balance. For example, give a Cover 2 look and switch to Cover 4. Or, give a Cover 4 look and actually play a Cover 6, which is Cover 4 on one side of the field and Cover 2 on the other.

And I am not sure we are very good at giving one look pre-snap v. what we end up playing.

I think the point is supposed to be the following:

1, all teams play a mix of man and zone
2, we seem to be better when we play man
3, we play more zone than man

Just my interpretation of what was posted

Painful truth about Browns loss and season on display in the frigid weather – Terry Pluto’s Postgame Scribbles
Published: Dec. 25, 2022, 5:51 a.m.

By Terry Pluto, cleveland.com
CLEVELAND, Ohio – Scribbles in my notebook after the Browns’ 17-10 loss to New Orleans:

1. A few times in his postgame interview, New Orleans coach Dennis Allen said: “We talked all week about how this game was going to be about mental toughness, and I thought our guys showed incredible grit.”

2. Allen was right – about his Saints. As he also explained, “We went down 10-0 (in the second quarter) and ... were able to take the lead. Then the defense finishes the game.”

3. More from Allen: “The most mentally tough team was going to win ... heart and grit, it’s what they (the Saints players) have.”

4. Here’s the sad part. Those are the kind of words Browns fans should have expected to hear from coach Kevin Stefanski after the game – a game that was there for the Browns to win. A warm weather/dome team playing on the road ... on Christmas Eve ... in well below zero wind chills ... that was set up for the Browns to win. And that was especially true after taking the 10-0 lead.

5. Browns veteran Joel Bitonio said: “We have had too many games that we’ve not been able to close out this year – Jets, Falcons, Chargers and this game. It’s four or five games ... Good teams find a way to win those close ones and find a way to close the door. We’ve not done that enough this year.”

THE GRINCH & THE BROWNS
Cleveland Browns fans donned holiday outfits and braved the freezing temperatures to watch the Browns lose. John Kuntz, cleveland.com

6. The Browns are 6-9. They are now guaranteed of one thing – a losing record ... again. They could lose even more games than a year ago, when they were 8-9. Even with Deshaun Watson sitting out the first 11 games with a suspension, did those in Berea who make big decisions expect the Browns to be 6-9 at this point in the season? Did they think they’d be 4-7 with Jacoby Brissett at QB when his offense was 11th in the NFL in scoring?

7. Interesting point made by Myles Garrett: “I don’t think the intensity dropped, but I think the attention to detail of being where you are supposed to be – and making those plays when they come to you, that really came back to bite us.”

8. Something has been missing with this team for most of the season. They will play a good game, such as last week’s 13-3 cold-weather win over Baltimore and the 32-13 Halloween night victory over Cincinnati. But they don’t sustain much. Since the Browns were 11-5 and made the 2020 playoffs, they are 14-18. Given the talent level, that’s underachieving.

9. I wrote a lot about the strange play calling in my game column. Coach Kevin Stefanski and Watson were looking to hit some big pass plays in the second half. They had receivers open. They had some balls overthrown. They had two drops that could been TDs.

MISSED CHANCE
Cleveland Browns wide receiver Amari Cooper slipped and then dropped a possible TD pass. Joshua Gunter, cleveland.com

10. But this day with 25 to 55 mph wind gusts and below zero wind chills made it hard for receivers to run their usual routes. Players were slipping. Quarterbacks had to throw the ball hard to cut through the wind, but that also makes it tough to catch on frigid days. If you noticed, the Saints rarely tried passes other than short and a few medium throws. They didn’t fight the weather, they adapted. Andy Dalton was 8 of 15 for 92 yards passing.

11. New Orleans used Taysom Hill several times in the wildcat running formation. Snap it to him, try to stop him. He had 56 yards on nine carries, including a rugged 8-yard TD run.

12. Allen: “I thought we did the things we needed to do to win the game. That was run the ball effectively and stop the run effectively on defense.”

13. The Browns ran it 34 times, but averaged only 3.6 yards per carry. Kareem Hunt had only 8 yards on seven carries. Nick Chubb rushed for 92 yards on 24 attempts. The longest run of the day was 19 yards by Chubb.

14. The Browns only TD was a 12-yard designed run for Watson. This weather begged for the Browns to let Watson use his legs and athleticism more. But he had only three total carries for 24 yards. The Saints continually used the wildcat formation with running back Alvin Kamara and part-time QB Hill. They lined up and dared the Browns to stop them. Nothing tricky. And when it meant the most in the second half, New Orleans won the test of wills.

ARE WE HAVING FUN YET?
Cleveland Browns fans braved the freezing temperature and wind to watch the Browns lose to the New Orleans Saints.John Kuntz, cleveland.com

15. Comment from Bitonio: “We have investments up front (the offensive line) and in the running back room. On a day like today, it’s cold out, windy and hard to throw ... we are trying to run the ball and they are trying to stop the run ... it didn’t work out.”

16. In terms of investments, the Browns have their offensive linemen on long-term contracts: Wyatt Teller, Jack Conklin and Bitonio. Chubb also has a long-term deal. The Saints had allowed at least 148 yards rushing in four of their last six games. New Orleans beat Atlanta 21-18 last week, but gave up 231 yards rushing. This was not a good run defense the Browns faced, but they didn’t capitalize on it.

17. Still can’t figure out why Watson tried a relatively long sideline pass to Donovan Peoples-Jones on fourth-and-2 in the fourth quarter. The pass got up in the wind and sailed over the receiver’s head. In case you were wondering, Watson didn’t change the play, according to Stefanski. Why not run, or just a play-fake to a running back and quick short pass for the first down?

18. A final thought: The fans who did show up deserved better than what the Browns gave them Saturday – and all season. For the record, the Saints are now 6-9 and have won two in a row for the first time this season.


https://www.cleveland.com/browns/20...her-terry-plutos-postgame-scribbles.html

Good point. I'm not sure, either. I'm guessing we are not because I recall Woods saying he had to "simplify" things.

I think man vs zone really depends on the situation at hand. And it depends
On the offense you are facing. I've seen alot more defenses
Deploy half man half zone concepts
Kinda like a box and 1 concept in basketball.
I think with offenses that have a chemistry between the QB
And his WR/TE giving them a zone look is a death sentence
For the defense.
Now when facing a young inexperienced QB a zone is great way
To confuse him. And if you have really good DBs that can at the
Last second vacate their zone responsibility and break underneath
On a throw and the QB doesn't see him, that's great too.
But I believe everything is predicated on the pass rush up front
If you can get home with 3 or 4 rushers running zone or man
You can negate passing Games with

It sounds like Bitonio even wanted to run more yesterday

What did he say? I missed it.

Btw-------Chubb had 24 carries. Kamara had 20. I don't think 24 carries by one running back is ignoring the run.

It's about what your personnel does best. It's about which scheme your players execute the best. You don't try to fit square pegs in a round hole. You also adjust your scheme depending on your opponent. Sweeping generalizations won't change that.

AS bad as the offense was, all it took was for NO to find some running plays, and that was the end. This defense is absolutely horrible. I would replace 75% of it. Myles is talked about as a once in a generation player, but if he isn't getting sacks, he does nothing. Did he even have a tackle yesterday?

The talk of "next year" is laughable. This team is a loser, and they will continue to be losers. I can't think of one player on this team that inspires their teammates. Another losing season, and a place at the bottom of the division. All the talk of Pittsburgh being really bad, yet, they are ahead of the Browns, and will probably smash the Browns in the final week.

I used to get hopeful. At the beginning of this year I was hopeful again. It only took about three games for that hope to disappear. I have no hope for next year, and feel sorry for anyone who believes it will be any different. The Browns are what they are. Underachieving overpaid losers.

Agreed, and I'm sure the geniuses on this board know what's best far more than the coaching staff does.

This is where I'm at.

If we replace the project manager, I can manufacture some hope, but if we don't you can guarantee the Browns will finish last again next year.

There is no point investing in this team anymore.

11-5, 8-9, 6-11. This has some fans wanting to continue with this experiment where ego, pride, inexperience, stubbornness, analytics, and general incompetence are all prioritized over winning.

They knew how poor the interior of the DL sucked. So in some cases I would agree. So they do man coverage better and the answer is to use it less? If you're trying to argue this defensive coaching staff are NFL defensive experts I think the actual results would disagree with you without anyone actually having to post it.

So I agree with just about everything in Terry's article.

I have highlighted in green the issues I believe directly correlate or are related to coaching. I keep seeing posters defend Stefanski as if he isn't responsible for this team's record, or for the defense, or for the players preparedness. I keep seeing how Stefanski's play calling is great and the players are at fault for failure to execute - but the 4th and 2 play by Stefanski and the comment: the Saints rarely tried passes other than short and a few medium throws. They didn’t fight the weather, they adapted. together with They lined up and dared the Browns to stop them. Nothing tricky. sum up for me some of the biggest game day management/play calling issues with KS. Sure he has great games. Sure he got the best out of BM and JB.... but just like Woods inability to call/coach a good Defense week in and week out - too many games KS lays an egg. The season is too short to do that as often as we do/have.

Where did I argue that. I will be very clear. I think they are smarter than you guys when it comes to football. I also think they know their players better than you guys. I trust their judgments far more than I do guys like those of you who are pretending to know more than the coaching staff.

I have no doubt Stefanski knows way more football that I do. Unfortunately for him and the Browns, he isn't coaching against me. He is coaching against guys named Tomlin and Harbaugh.

This is a great point. Stefanski shouldn't be graded against message board posters but against his peers.

I asked this before and I'll ask again...can you name even 5 coaches you would take Stefanski over? Anyone?

Just a handful that came to mind immediately: Hackett, Saturday, McDaniels, and maybe Staley. Not sure any others

I was kinda glancing at the Pats game today
At BW3s...Joe Burrow threw the ball 35 times
By HALF TIME in extreme cold conditions
Mac Jones threw it 40 times by games end I think
It's funny to think if it's really cold out
You have by rule throw it under 20 times
And run it 58 times.[/quote]

The BRowns don't have great receivers at every position, just a couple.

What does this even mean?

My first thought is "One more season".

That's all I have left in the tank. We have lost in every fluky stupid way that anyone can think of, and yet we continue to come up with more. No other fan base can possibly understand. Lions, Texans, Saints are close, but at least they all had at least a few good seasons.

It's just not physically, emotionally, spiritually, intellectually possible for the things that happen to this team to keep happening.

I get the NFL wanted us to be bad this season which is why they overruled 2 judges whose sole job was to consider Watson's suspension and make it 11 games, the exact worst amount of game suspension possible, while also ripping us off on ref calls.

So you'd think "so the coaches get a pass?", NO, cuz despite the horrific sabotage the league (once again) took against the Browns, we still found ourselves in winnable games. Heck, the Jets game was OVER. We won, take a knee, run the clock out, GG, and we STILL lost. Just honestly some of the dumbest coaching I've ever seen in all 3 phases of the game.

Chubb was slicing up the Saints in the 4th quarter, so we decide to pass nonstop... what?

Meanwhile the Steelers are still in the playoff hunt with a trash QB, almost nothing at WR, and their best D player on IR all season.

I just refuse to believe this is real.

In theory, next year we are setup to rock. A "top 5 QB" (in quotes cuz I still need to see it to believe it), The best or at least top 3 RB, Top 5 O-line, and an insane amount of playmakers on D if we can shore up the DT spot and coaching can get it's head out of it's butt.

If we somehow fall victim to "bad luck" again, I'll throw in the towel. I know nobody will care or miss me, so I won't make some kinda dramatic goodbye post. I'll just leave and accept that my dad picked the whipping boy of the NFL's organized entertainment plan, and I was too dumb to realize it any sooner.

Rooting for Cleveland has robbed me of ever getting to root for a football team. Even if they won now it wouldn't be the same as if they won when I was younger, before the burden of cancer, friends & family dying, debt, bills, etc. You know, life. I still very much want them to win, but the evidence is overwhelming. If the NFL robs us again or the coaches do things that literally could only be explained by someone trying to lose, and Haslam doesn't raise hell, maybe even suiting the league, I'm done. Again, I know nobody cares, just venting lol

The Browns fans I've met IRL and on this forum are exceptional people and you all deserve better.

Oooh fun, I'll play!


1) Kliff Kinsbury
2) Todd Bowles
3) Lovie Smith
4) Nathaniel Hackett (honestly this one is close since Russ has played so bad no coach could win with that team, but he's also done some bonehead calls so it's a tie at least)
5) Josh McDaniels

But that's it, if not counting interim coaches. I can't think of a 6th, so I agree with you fundamentally for sure.

It’s like my wife always says … youre good at some things, but even those things you aren’t that good at

1) Hue Jackson 3-36-1
2) Freddie Kitchens 6-10-0
3) Pat Shurmur 9-23-0
4) Mike Pettine 10-22-0
5) Chris Palmer 5-27-0

No, it's moving the goal posts so that an agenda is being forced upon others. I was responding to statements where posters directly criticizing which schemes and packages fit our personnel the best. I'm saying those posters do NOT know more about those things than the coaching staff does. Once again, it's fans pretending they are smarter than the coaches. It's been going on forever and it's lame as can be.

I think this game proves that there is no such thing as a team being a cold weather team and we will somehow have an advantage.

All cold weather does is equalize things. It turns games in to luck of the draw.

Nobody likes playing in cold conditions, nobody likes sitting in cold conditions. People need to give up childhood memories of playing in the snow. Hockey is the only game that needs to be played in freezing conditions, and guess what, all but 1 game a year are played indoors.

It's not about trusting "us" or "you guys" as you say. It's about trusting the analytics of the situation which in the past you have been highly favorable of. The Browns have been one of the best in the NFL in man coverage yet use it the least. That's not an opinion.

^ This.


It's not luck of the draw, however. Each team is made up of guys from all over the country with all sorts of backgrounds all sorts of different levels of willingness to suffer for success in those sorts of conditions.

You have grown so old and grumpy that you refuse to even consider being educated. I posted my original points to help try to educate and all you want to do is argue by moving the goal posts.

You're no longer a teacher, we are not your students and this is not your classroom. The sooner you learn to accept that the better off we will all be. You call me grumpy yet fail to recognize that's the perception based on your own superiority complex. You act as though you're the smartest person in the room. You're not.

LOL..........of course you would find fault w/intelligent football talk and try to twist into another personality conflict.

It is what it is. Objectivity isn't your strong suit. To hear you tell it the only one who can possibly have a point in this forum is you. Anyone with a differing opinion has to be wrong. In your own post I responded to your claim was that you were educating me. Words have meaning.


That's exactly what I described in my follow up post. You simply refuse to own it.

I agree with what you said Peen.

I read this dumb comment by Pluto and similar from others over the years. How can you say this crap while their QB started 10+ years with the Bengals. Players are from all over the country, free agency/transactions change 20%+ of the roster every year, it's usually only cold for a a game or very few. It's a 17 game schedule (with just a few even close to the winter temps), it's not 60 game schedule throughout the winter. Just some of the reasons this is a dumbass comment this day in age.

Now if you want to say the weather can benefit or hurts a team's style of play, then I can agree with that.

While I think there is some merit to that the tendencies are for dome and warm weather teams to play a faster game than a physical game. Sure there are exceptions and the roster the teams field plays into that in some respects. But if this assertion is true then it's also true that the weather doesn't impact the passing game as much as some would like to indicate. First there is KC and Mahomes who seems to do well in cold weather conditions. Then there's the Bengals vs Patriots game played on Christmas Eve day.

Burrow went 40-52 and Mac Jones went 21-33. Cold weather didn't seem to hamper their passing games since both QB's threw for pretty much their season averages. In Burrows case even above his season avergae for accuracy.

Yes to this. Build a dome.

I agree with that assertion Pit.

Your examples is exactly what I was thinking while i was typing my post.

Just so I understand here - your premise seems to be that on a fan forum board, the fans should never offer an opinion on the coaches, their schemes, their successes or apparent failures - because none of us would even know as much as a professional coach in the NFL whose livelihood is coaching? If we do we are lame and you believe that anyone offering an opinion in these situations is pretending to be smarter than the coaches? I mean I honestly don't think I can read and interpret your post any other way.

Correct me or explain in more detail if I have not fully understood.

Retractable dome!

IMO, the issue with passing in bad weather isn't so much the cold rather the 20-30 mph winds.
They reported. that we had those duringour game. I don't know about the wind during Cincy game.

Hah. That is true he’s better than most of our other coaches since ‘99, but that’s like saying getting your hand slammed in a door is better than your family jewels. It’s true but I’d rather just not slam anything in the door.

I do have hope Stefanski can improve next year, but if not, oh well, maybe in another life we can win the SB haha

Fair point.

I still think there is a degree of randomness that is magnified and can't be factored in to the equation. I just chalk it up to luck of the draw. On another equally brutal day, maybe we catch some of those passes for TD's. Maybe we don't catch any passes. Maybe a defender slips and Chubb takes it to the house. Maybe Chubb slips and fumbles the ball.

Cold weather teams do have an advantage IF the cold weather team takes advantage of their opportunity to practice in cold weather and become acclimated to the weather conditions.

Problem is, many teams have indoor facilities that they utilize for practice in the days leading up to game rather than attempting to gain an advantage by practicing outdoors. In those cases where a team practices indoors rather than outdoors have no advantage due to weather conditions.

That said, I have no idea what the Browns practice priorities are when the weather changes with the seasons.

Oh I certainly agree with that. But that would actually hold true in warm weather games as well. And if we're speaking of the Saints vs Browns game specifically as it pertains to Sunday you are most certainly correct. I was speaking in overall terms of how people seem to indicate that cold weather games have a big negative impact on the passing game.

And the temp at the start of the Cincy game was 17 with a wind chill of +4-That equates to about 10 mph wind.

I checked accuweather for Cleveland about an hour before the game and it was 6 degrees air temp with a wind chill of -23. On the wind chill calculator, that is winds of 25-30 mph.

the next closest game the saints played in was almost 30 years ago and the game time temp was 24 in Philly.

This was a perfect day to use our top ranked o-line and running backs and use a slip screen or a DW scramble. We didn't use them enough when it mattered.