so, what can he learn from?

It clearly isn't from sitting on the bench.

There better be a lot he learns from, cause there was a lot that needs corrected.

well, he needs to learn fast from his mistakes yesterday, that's for sure!

11 STUFFS I LEARNED IN MY FIRST PRO GAME
-by Johnny "Football" Manziel


1. These guys are big. Really big. I can't see over them when they are (almost) blocking for me.

2. These guys are really fast. I noticed it when those really big guys who were "blocking" for me couldn't stop them.

3. A pocket is a sometimes thing. I used to take my
time, look over the field, and choose where I wanted to throw the ball. Yesterday, I had enough time to throw the ball. Maybe next week, I'll be able to throw with my eyes open.

4. These guys are very strong. This one big guy grabbed me (behind the LOS) with one hand... and hauled me to the ground- on my head! How did he do that? I'm "Johnny Magic"... stuff like that isn't supposed to happen...

5. The turf in Cleveland is hard as hell. Maybe it's because it's so cold. Maybe it's because I'm still too soft for the pro game. Maybe it's because all these big guys slam me against it harder than anyone I've ever faced before.

Wow. Maybe it's "all of the above."

6. College was fun. I could do anything I wanted, and it worked. Yesterday, I couldn't do anything I wanted. I couldn't do anything the coaches wanted. I couldn't do anything my team wanted. I couldn't do anything the fans wanted. I guess I have a lot more to learn, before I can "money up" in the NFL. If I learned anything at all yesterday, I guess it's this:

7. College was fun; The Pro job is WORK. This is going to be a lot harder than I thought. Glad I thought of this now.

8. Brian Hoyer had a great gig before he came to Cleveland. So did I, while Brian Hoyer had 'my gig' in Cleveland. Backup QB is a plush spot: you never make a mistake, your QB rating is always 140+, everybody loves you, and you never miss an NBA game if you need a little 'downtime.'

9. A "successful massage" in the NFL doesn't involve a "happy ending." I need true professionals today... and that ice bath was no picnic. I guess I'll have to put "Taffy", "Cinnamon" and "Cherry Turnover" on hold until the offseason... and go with those strappin' lads who get their paychecks from 76 Groza. Sven, Lars and Gunther can do more for me than The Bikinis. After all... I'm actually on the job, now.

10. Thank God my season is only 3 games long. I can't imagine what I'd feel like if I'd started the season as our #1... or what week would have put me on IR. I'm just glad that I'm healthy enough to start next week. (Oh, GOD... I'm healthy enough to start next week....)

11. My next offseason will be very, very different than my first. Growing up is hard. Growing up at 22 is even harder. Growing up 'hard' at 22 is even harder than the first two. I have a lot of catching up to do. I'm not sure that one offseason will be enough. If I want to be "JayFoot" again, it must start now.

Wish me luck, Browns fans... you may not need me to be The Man- but I need you to help me become to become The Man. Can I get a little backup? For at least a season? Please?


Humbly submitted,
Jonathan Paul '#2' Manziel

can I get a link for that Clem?

I can accept the guy making rookie mistakes, but his qb rating tied Brandon Weeden's rating on his debut.

Johnny Weeden scares me.

As I said all year long Johnny was not ready but so many posters busted my chops for telling the truth

Dawg... you just read the only link that exists.

It was my own 'fanfic' for this site, written by me.


(Satire is a funky kinda thang that way, son...)


HEY! Where's my smiley, winky, devily emoticons??? I don't deal well with change!!!

Unfortunately, neither was Hoyer. He seemed to be early on, and then went to crap. Manziel then gets his shot. That's the way it works.

Oh I agreed with giving Johnny a shot as Hoyer just fell apart. Now it's time to give the kid two more games and see what happens.

Oh, I think we can all predict what will happen, GM.

The Bengals wrote the book on that.


Unless Shanny gets a bolt of lightning from The Heavens, I sadly predict that Sunday is but a precursor to the remainder of the season.

That said, all's not lost. I truly think that JM has what it takes to play well in the Modern NFL.... just not just this year. Too many cards in the deck are stacked against him.

-Our team is decimated on both sides of the ball.
-He's coming in late... when other (quality) teams are hitting their strides.
-His timing with WR's and RB's will not have a chance to gel.
-He's still learning the playbook, so his O scheme will be pedestrian, at best.

As I see it, these last 3 games are for QB evaluation purposes. I believe that the coaching staff went into "next year mode" when we lost the Colts game. I also believe that the team sensed it- and that's why they phoned in their game against Cinci.

I don't like it at all, but I think I can understand it, from a "strategy/tactics" POV.

We don't have enough of a team to make a strong SB push, so let's see what we have. If we can capture 'lightning in a bottle,' run with it. If not, evaluate JM in the worst of all possible lights, and see if Farmer needs to draft another QB for 2015's "competition."

Like I said... I don't like it, but I kind of understand it.

Alot of QBs struggle in their first start, lets not forget he played against a playoff ready D. Not making excuses for his poor play but at least he owned it and didnt try to pass it off on others the way Hoyer did.

From what I understand we was already eliminated from the playoffs before the Bungles game anyways. So why not get the kid some experience. I bet you he comes back next Sunday night and day difference than this past game.

The kid has it between the ears, he will learn from his mistakes. The coaches will do their jobs and get him up to speed, as well as the players around him. Have patience remember Rome wasnt built in one day.

So do I but I would like to see how Johnny reacts to the last game. I think it will tell us a lot about him.



I am still 50/50 on if the kid has what it takes.



He has had all of the pre season and 14 regular seasons to learn the playbook, and from what I understand he knows it. If the kid has not learned it by know we have yet another problem to worry about with him.

Johnny didn't play as bad as everyone is saying. The offensive line did not help one bit, neither did the penalties. He needs to plant his feet and throw the ball with more velocity. He needs to never lob pass the ball ever again, that doesn't work in the NFL. He needs to be more vocal and be the leader. We as fans expected him to be the savior, and to explode out of the gate. Rookies dont do that. Manziel learned a lot from that game, i expect a better game plan going into Carolina. Best part of manziels game was, he was reading the entire field. he didn't have the time too, but he was, Manziel isn't as big of a project as the media is making him out to be. These 3 games plus the offseason is going to be huge for his development.

I think that it will be interesting to see what hapens.

Hopefully the OL does a better job this week. According to Pluto, (who used ESPN data) Manziel we sacked 3 times, was hit 3 others, and was under pressure 10 other times ..... on 24 total dropbacks. That was with the Bengals blitzing exactly twice the entire game. The run game added nothing, except for 3 runs, 8 or 9 yard runs each by Manziel, West, and Crowell. Other than that, we ran for nothing.

*Sigh* We played like crap. By the tim we ran our 7th offensive play, we were down 17-0. The only pass manziel had thrown to that point, was the one to Hawkins, that he dropped.

Bleh. The whole game left a bad taste in my mnouth.

The o-line did nothing to help him, including piling up penalties and killing drives. He looked like a 22-year old rookie making his pro debut, he has a ton to learn.

Cleveland Browns' Johnny Manziel brutal in first NFL start: DMan's QB Report, Game 14

Interesting insight from the outside: Manziel did not play like a quarterback who had training camp and 14 weeks to prepare for his starting debut. Maybe it is because he did not, in fact, steadily prepare as needed.

In the final minutes Sunday, as Fox showed Manziel sitting on the bench with his head down, analyst and former standout defensive back John Lynch spoke of an interaction he had with Manziel: "The best quarterbacks in this league, they're the hardest workers in the building. Johnny Manziel was, this week -- by all accounts. All year, he hasn't been. And I asked him: 'Are you willing to do that?' He said, 'Well, this week was a good start.' He was stand-up. I think he didn't argue that he hasn't been. He said, 'This was a good start.' And we'll see from here, and I think that will go a long way in determining his success.''

Obviously, Lynch saying, "I think he didn't argue that he hasn't been'' left plenty open to interpretation -- Manziel's interpretation. Manziel might counter that Lynch misunderstood that he conceded a lack of required study habits for most of the season. At the same time, Lynch is a solid analyst who doesn't open his mouth to hear himself talk, nor has he picked a side in Hoyer vs. Manziel. Lynch must have gotten his information from somewhere credible, if not Manziel, or he never would have tweaked him.

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2014/12/johnny_manziel_dmans_report_ga.html

interesting take:

http://nypost.com/2014/12/15/how-the-browns-sabotaged-johnny-manziels-first-start/

Johnny Manziel’s much-anticipated starting debut was an utter disaster Sunday, but the Browns — offensive coordinator Kyle Shanahan, in particular — certainly didn’t do their rookie quarterback any favors.

As bad as Manziel was in the 30-0 loss to the Bengals, a game in which Cleveland mustered just 107 total yards and crossed midfield only once, it remains puzzling why Shanahan mostly put Manziel in a straightjacket instead of playing to his creative strengths.

Manziel carried just five times, most of them on scrambles instead of designed runs, and Shanahan even had Manziel try to be a pocket passer and take snaps from under center with deep drops.

That wasn’t going to work against a disciplined Cincinnati front that both overwhelmed the Cleveland offensive line up the middle and mindfully protected the edges, leaving Manziel with nowhere to go except on his back for much of the day.

The 6-foot Manziel is too short to be a pocket passer in the NFL, yet Shanahan didn’t do much in the way of designed rollouts or bootlegs to take advantage of Manziel’s ability to make plays on the run.
Indeed, the only bit of flare from Shanahan came in the first quarter, when he had four receivers line up to the right in a diamond formation. But the play call appeared to be a simple screen pass to the trailing receiving in that formation, and it flopped when Manziel decided to keep instead and was quickly swallowed up for a minimal gain.

Shanahan was the offensive coordinator in Washington in 2012 when Robert Griffin III — a player with a similar skill-set to Manziel’s — tormented opponents out of the read option with both his legs and his arm.

Of course, Shanahan and father Mike both got the blame when that offense ended up getting Griffin hurt and sending the quarterback’s career into its subsequent freefall. Maybe that’s why the younger Shanahan was so conservative with Manziel out of the box.

But that would beg the question why the Browns drafted Manziel in the first place if they weren’t going to play to the strengths he showed in college.

If the speculation among other league executives is true that Manziel is only a Brown because of owner Jimmy Haslam and was taken against the wishes of coach Mike Pettine, then Manziel probably can’t count on much help from Shanahan in the future, either.


personally, i don't buy "too short" Drew and Wilson are not too short to throw from a pocket.

i know hence that's why I smiled.

it was written better than most of the articles I see floating around.

When he came in against Buffalo, albeit in a releif role, he did fine running plays from our regular O. When he had a week to prepare he did lousy. As I said in another post let him run our O as it is and just add some plays that play to his strenghts. Our whole O was completely out of sync on Sunday like it would be for our first pre- season game.

With a rookie HC and a OC trying to ramrod a read option system, that's going to be a tall order.

If by 'it', you mean 'rocks', I agree.

Scrap the read option...keep the boot leg. Shore up the center cause he was almost a one man wrecking crew. Never ever so saw much failure from ONE OL position. Where's my emoticons? lol

I was wondering if the Browns shouldn't think about moving Greco back to Center for the rest of the season, along with McQuistan to RG. They looked good vs Pitt after Mack got hurt. Not so good after that, but maybe with some more reps they could at least stop the sieve.

I would like to add. That was Seymours first Start as Center in the NFL. It sort of showed. Wonder if they did it cause JM n he worked together on the Scout team???

naw. he started against the colts too.

Great to be back.

I think the monkey is hanging on for dear life and JM
will shake it off soon. I'm expecting a better
performance the next two weeks. BUT I'm not holding
my breath.

I'm in your camp. I didn't say anything because you
we're handling it so well.

Could have sworn McD started and he Seymour came in after an injury.

that was the buff game. doesn't seem to matter. they are both the same.

LOOK: Johnny Football T-shirt placed on clearance rack

You probably already know this, but Johnny Manziel, making his first start Sunday for the Browns, didn't play well, joining a sad list of rookies who were shut out in their first starts and allowing the Bengals to drop tons of money fingers celebrations during their 30-0 victory.

And capitalism has responded rather harshly.




So, after just one bad performance, the price on that shirt has basically been cut in half.

Browns coach Mike Pettine already has said that Manziel will start next Sunday. If he plays the same way he performed in his debut, you might have a chance of getting that Johnny Football shirt for free.

damn so my net worth just dropped by $15

The last month my entire life seems to be one big Groundhog day!

Seymour looked really good in the Colts game. He even blocked to the 2nd level on occasion, which I did not see McDonald do in any of his starts.

Unfortunately, he seemed to get confused facing the Bengals 4-3. He did well with a NT right on his nose against the Colts, and struggled in trying to figure out how to handle being uncovered against the 4-3.

I really don't recall how he played against the Bills after coming into the game. I really didn't key on him except for a couple of plays.

Gloating is so unbecoming.

not gloating. I wanted the guy to do well. but there was a reason why JT and pettin didn't really want him to start. now we know why.

greg cossel
analysis

got pics of a couple of plays.

wow. this site is kicking my butt lol. had a hard time putting a link up.

John had new plays, the offense had new plays.

John sucked at running the new plays.

His arm is not elite (at least, with his mechanics)

He held the ball too long a time or 2, as a rookie will do.

He got sacked one time immediately after he made a play fake.

He is NOT a strong arm

His mechanics suck. Side arm throws off his back foot?

His foot speed may have been good in college, but this isn't college, it's the nfl. Even the big d linemen are quick.

Cincy read him like a book. Or, read what the O wanted to do, like a book.

John needs to sit is butt in the film room with shanahan.

I hope this was a wake up call for John - because if not, we're drafting a qb high next year.

And yes, I call him "John". He doesn't deserve an extra n and a y. He's not JFF. He's "dang, this next man up sucked along with the rest of the team."

Good read, thanks for posting.

The arm strength issue is one that had me scratching my head back in the spring. I understand the college game can be deceiving in terms of abilities, but everyone was going on and on about his arm. "He can throw a laser on a rope while on the move!"

And I'm watching A&M highlights thinking 'what the hell are they seeing?"

It's what I've been saying from the beginning. Hopefully with some work he can fix the preparation flaws but he's still going to have physical limitations...

No need to even watch A&M games - just re watch Sunday's game. No one has a clue if he has a good arm, because his mechanics sucked so bad.

Even the announcers said it. "You may get away with that in college, but this isn't college."

I hope this beatdown will "wake him up". Maybe he NEEDED a failure this big...

I hope so too.

What bothers me is the 12 minutes Debut as a real First NFL play - he didn't show the horrible mechanics. He showed actual comfort in the system and decent results.

jmho

The problem is that he only played "well" for 5 of those twelve minutes...

He said part of the reason Manziel couldn't run more was the Bengals took it away, in part corralling him with a wide-nine scheme.

"Johnny wants to run,'' said Shanahan. "He enjoys that stuff. They weren't going to let him. That was pretty obvious early. They were playing the quarterback. We had to give the ball off every time. Johnny's got no problem running. He wants to make plays any way he can. When it's there he'll take it, but people know he can run, also. It's not always there."

He noted that he couldn't call more than two bootlegs because Manziel would've gotten drilled. One of them resulted in a 19-yard strike to Josh Gordon.

"If people are playing it, you call one and you get some pretty violent hits into you,'' he said. "Usually, that does help out the run game and stuff so you're always looking for that as a coach. If they're giving you the bootleg, I'll call it every play as you probably saw with (Redskins QB) Kirk Cousins in 2012 when we played here, but if they're taking the bootleg away, I'm not going to call it and have him run into a knockout."

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2014/12/kyle_shanahan_still_confident.html

I was at the Browns/Redskins game that Cousins started..

It was uper depressing watching him roll out almost every pass play and have an eternity to throw it...

Its a problem to only those who wish to pee on him. He had two series...one a successful drive for a TD which we could not muster all day. The other a 3 n out.

You wish to look at STATS - I'm talking his technical evaluation that has been given by everyone in a very very terrible outing. What I'm saying is there was other data. To look at footwork, arm strength, accuracy, pocket presence. Why were the two pieces of data so different. Was it Johnny? Was it a new part of the playbook being thrown to everyone so that many pieces were off rhythm?

Talk football or talk agenda...your choice.

And that's the thing Tab. He looked in rhythm and his passes were crisp with good velocity in the Bills game.

He looked very uncomfortable and out of sync last week. Hopefully the coaching staff will go back to what's comfortable for the entire O instead of continuing to try to change everything mid stream like last week.

But then I'm a stat guy, so what do I know.

The little knowledge and experience I have with football. QB...so much of it is about comfort. So many things go wrong. One of the most common is squeezing the I mean tak a football and throw it against the couch. Nice n relaxed then squeeze it tight two different throws. A guy is relaxed he's not thinking about what he has to do he just does it.

So much ado about his burning of the midnight OIL ooooooh another way to bash the Browns and JM by the BOZOS well if studying was the principal product of becoming an NFL QB most it becomes an easy job. Of course you have to learn. JM knew his audibles something the Cutler situation is said to be void of. Not one player or coach stated anything but the opposite that JM was there in classes in film and working hard. Not one saying otherwise. JM gets corralled into an interview and he's honest - all of a Sudden Lynch is a genius. Maybe every starting QB who is worth spit puts in the extra hours other do not. Maybe he should have not..and we just kept it simple and execute the simple.

btw Pit..I cannot read a lick of the purple stuff, to dark for these tired eyes against a dark background so if I don't respond I'm not being a snob, I just cannot read it ergo my lighter posting color after posting I do like to read what i said to make sure what I did say

I really do appreciate your posts, but you keep saying 12 minutes as though that's true. At no point did I mention any stats other than the counter the false one you keep presenting. The only effective drive he had was 3 minutes and 14 seconds, the rest of your vaunted 12 minutes was either Bills ball or Manziel making a rookie mistake (for which I don't blame him, that's what rookies do, this last game wasn't rookie mistakes it was quarterbacking mistakes).

Where did he say anything about 12 minutes in that post? He said two series, you even quoted him.

Here is my take on JF..

He doesn't know how to execute a proper play action hand off fake (basic).

When he drops back to throw he lowers his eyes if his 1st option is covered and looks into the line followed by running up into and out of the pocket then he will bring his eyes back up as he runs forward and he has no feel for the pocket what so ever. Lowering your eyes and looking into the line is death to a QB at this level. He simply isn't ready the speed of the game overwhelmed him and it was obvious.

Every and all excuses to the side, he isn't ready and no amount of excuses can change that. If he is the future we are screwed.

He looked good against the Bills, he sucked against the Bengals. No excuses. I mean its not like he had the defense spot him 17 points and still found a way to lose.

He's been saying all over the board.

And Mougrym, he looked okay for exactly 50% of his series in Buffalo, hardly a fair comparrison to the entire Cincinnati game...