Don’t matter who the QB is, these receivers are a damn disappointment. The amount of drops is crazy. And don’t get me started on our LT, and the fact that Stefanski left him out on an island despite being beat repeatedly.
I'm just frustrated that key injuries have decimated this team and squandered our best D in decades. "Elite" defenses never reach the same potential as their predecessors...Anyone ever talk about the 1986 Bears D? or the 1992 Eagles? or the 2001 ravens? just really frustrating and depressing all in the same
Pre-snap penalties -four in the first half- dropped passes, can’t execute a frikking handoff or a one-yard lateral. Clowns are back, even my wife laughed when Strong effed up that reverse.
Flacco is the only QB on our roster who can save us. Walker and DTR can’t deal. Bring in the grizzled vet who can throw the damn ball on time. Our D made good adjustments when they were up 14, kept us in it. We got gashed on the ground but this loss is on the O, and oh yeah, the play caller should have committed to the run when it was first and goal from the seven.
Stefanski and Berrys seats need to be on fire. Playoffs or bust. Can’t keep accepting this mediocre bs just because it’s not as bad a hue Jackson. Yeah it can always be worse , but middle of the road and never getting anywhere is just as bad imo
Pre-snap penalties -four in the first half- dropped passes, can’t execute a frikking handoff or a one-yard lateral. Clowns are back, even my wife laughed when Strong effed up that reverse.
Flacco is the only QB on our roster who can save us. Walker and DTR can’t deal. Bring in the grizzled vet who can throw the damn ball on time. Our D made good adjustments when they were up 14, kept us in it. We got gashed on the ground but this loss is on the O, and oh yeah, the play caller should have committed to the run when it was first and goal from the seven.
I thought DTR was improving as the game went on, despite drop after drop from his receivers.
With that said I won't complain if Flacco gets the nod next week.
This one's on Stefanski, the team just wasn't ready to play and this was his worst game plan of the year. How you don't focus on running the ball against the worst run defense in the league with a rookie qb is just mind boggling. I haven't been this upset after a loss in awhile.
To me, nothing about the entire Browns effort felt in synch; right out of the gate the entire plan seemed awkward. The Browns seemed like they had found an identity with their D, but wow, Denver just showed how to beat Schwartz's scheme. The Offense had previously been able to do just enough to stay close and pull out a win. Clearly the lack of talent at QB and Stinfanski's Dr. Evil play calling combined with the D who gave up too much, exposed just how shaky the Browns truly are. The curtain at Oz has been pulled back, and Mr. Wizard is Hue Jackson's cousin. I would not be shocked to see the Browns finish at 7-10 after seeing today's shellacking.
Not Stefanski's finest hour. He was basically being mocked by butt fumble the entire game for his playcalling. His playcalling was hard to justify today.
Season isn't lost. On to LA. Hopefully we have enough players to field a team next week.
What a sloppy game. Bad gameplan. Too many drops. Defense missing Ward. Everybody is injured. DTR played well. That was the only bright spot. Otherwise, total team and coaching L.
How’s about you stop calling the coach stinkfanski? You keep lining up in the neutral zone.
I personally didn't line up in the neutral zone. Players lining up in the neutral zone would be on Schwartz's list to fix.
When his coaching doesn't stink, I'll consider not referring to him as Stinkfanski. He dials up more trick plays than the Savannah Bananas and Harlem Globetrotters combined. He doesn't adjust and insists on running plays that the personnel on the field are not geared to do.
In the time that he's been here, he's made mistakes at game management and play calling. He's arrogant in that he will not try another approach, such as letting his OC call plays when it's clear he struggles during the game to call plays and manage the game. The single playoff win they have is when he was out with Covid and AVP called the game.
A good leader recognizes his weaknesses, and surrounds himself with people that will help him. I don't see that happening with KS.
Those two plays aren’t why we lost, but they are microcosms of how we continually muffed up today. I’ve already explained my POV on the game. drops, dumb penalties, clown-like execution on a simple reverse. And we probably missed Ward today.
On both calls against Wright, did anyone notice, they never showed him offsides. Both times the replay was from the offensive backfield. You couldn't even see where he was lined up.
This was a team loss. Defense couldn't stop the run, and the offense could score TDs. Newsome was horrible all day. Feilds at LB was terrible. Drops left and right, and at crucial times. Kareem looked hurt, along with Myles, Cooper, Emerson. DTR has a concussion, he won't be playing next week. All the passing early had me throwing fits. I usually don't bash Kevin for playcalls, but this gameplan was not good.
Once again tied with Pittsburgh, and they have a cake schedule from here on out. I see a slide coming, right out of the wild card race.
Lol. Nice try. You’ll convince some people with that post.
This game can also be summed up by calling out poor execution on O, and bad QB play. Bring on Joltin’ Joe. At least he can throw it 20 yards with accuracy and some tomato sauce on the toss.
Ford: 9 carries for 65 yards .... then we stopped handing him the ball.
Overall, we ran the ball 24 times for 107 yards.
We threw the ball 42 times.
Why?
My questions exactly, it was that bad today for Stefanski. And that's without getting into the reverse to Strong that made absolutely no sense. I like Stefanski but he has these days where he thinks he has to outsmart the other team when all he has to do is keep it simple. Of all days to do this today was not one of them.
Did anyone notice, in the 3rd quarter, down near the endzone. Penalty on the Broncos to make it first an goal. Next play, Hunt in the backfield. And for a second or 2, BEFORE the ball was snapped, the "telestrator" showed exactly where Hunt would run? And, he did. I made my wife rewatch it with me.
Hunt in the backfield. Players lining up. And BAM - that yellow telestrator line showed up for a second or so. Ball was snapped, and that's exactly where hunt ran.
Last week poster were calling for Ski to be extended… Bad Ski showed up today. The injuries were just insane. With DTR concussed, we’re either Starting the turnover machine or the old timer. Myles is injured. This game was as deflating as the Chubb game. I won’t count them out, but the Donks whipped our asses for 60 minutes. It was a team loss.
you bring up a good point: it seems like KS is quite hot and cold. Obviously it's a win/loss league, but some games he seems to REALLY have a feel for how to attack a defense and others it's a head scratcher
Last week poster were calling for Ski to be extended… Bad Ski showed up today. The injuries were just insane. With DTR concussed, we’re either Starting the turnover machine or the old timer. Myles is injured. This game was as deflating as the Chubb game. I won’t count them out, but the Donks whipped our asses for 60 minutes. It was a team loss.
I was at the game, just awful. Constantly hearing Denver fans saying “this is the best defense in the league”? Just an embarrassing performance all around.
Last week poster were calling for Ski to be extended… Bad Ski showed up today. The injuries were just insane. With DTR concussed, we’re either Starting the turnover machine or the old timer. Myles is injured. This game was as deflating as the Chubb game. I won’t count them out, but the Donks whipped our asses for 60 minutes. It was a team loss.
You can go ahead and count them out. This season is done.
I was at the game, just awful. Constantly hearing Denver fans saying “this is the best defense in the league”? Just an embarrassing performance all around.
The were definitely exposed today. Outside of JOK, Defense was pretty pedestrian. Very little to no QB pressure, bad tackling and bad angles. Run defense was exposed big time with big runs up the middle. No spy on Wilson who gashed us with QB runs.
I was at the game, just awful. Constantly hearing Denver fans saying “this is the best defense in the league”? Just an embarrassing performance all around.
Welp. They were far better than the supposed #1 defense in the league today.
Listen. The Browns will never be taken seriously if they consistently blow these big games in the most embarrassing ways over and over again.
Face it. We blow. We will ALWAYS blow and no matter what we do, we will never get anything more than a glimmer of hope before we crash and burn in the most horrific, embarrassing, historically humiliating ways.
That’s the Browns way. And the sooner we realize this, hopefully we can all find som sort of peace with the notion that we will never, ever enjoy rooting for a team that will ever be able to win anything ever.
I'm more depressed right now than I was during the Hue Jackson years.
Yeah going 0-16 and 1-15 sucked, but at least I knew the team was terrible.
Now we actually have something but just can't keep it together with all the injuries. What a disaster this season is.
And I have to cash it in at 7-4? Even more depressing, during those years I would've wished to be in this position and I still had hope. But now those hopes are crushed with Garrett getting hurt and Coop going down (thanks Walker)
I hate this season, just the worst ever, just a big tease.
Going to cry myself to sleep, have a goodnight guys and hopefully we'll get them next year.
I'm more depressed right now than I was during the Hue Jackson years.
Yeah going 0-16 and 1-15 sucked, but at least I knew the team was terrible.
Now we actually have something but just can't keep it together with all the injuries. What a disaster this season is.
And I have to cash it in at 7-4? Even more depressing, during those years I would've wished to be in this position and I still had hope. But now those hopes are crushed with Garrett getting hurt and Coop going down (thanks Walker)
I hate this season, just the worst ever, just a big tease.
Going to cry myself to sleep, have a goodnight guys and hopefully we'll get them next year.
yep thats the long and short of it for me.. Just because you arent 1-15 doesn't mean its good , tons of middling teams that just sit there and never really do anything.. yeah they win a few and lose a few and end up +/- a game or two from .500. Does that mean they shouldn't be looking at KS and AB and seeing what the malfunction is, because what you have is a major one, youve got AB on one hand that can't draft to save his life, blows the cap on FA because he can't draft. Gives a ridiculous contract to a guy who was mired in drama and controversy and did something to put even more eyes on it and gave him a full guaranteed contract and spent all your draft capital for the next 3 years.. totally screwed up the Backup QB position, even knowing the deadline was there and he still did nothing. Even if you had to overpay, which you should have because everyone knew you created this desperate scenario. And we're supposed to just say... good job berry, one season removed from playoffs. Then stefanski refuses to give up playcalling, can't manage the game or clock, calls dumbest plays since mo carthon, can't challenge correctly, doesn't do anything to protect his Rookie QB, doesn't do anything to slow down pass rushes, just lines it up and calls whatever his finger lands on the denny's menu. Its going to cost him his job in the long run. He might be a helluva HC but we'll never know because we keep seeing the flaws come through with playcaller stefanski. So how many years do we sit here a couple games +/- .500 before we decide we need to make a move and get football people in here before Chubb and Garrett are out of their prime.. much like we squandered 10 years of JT. All teams deal with injuries and bad games, Pittburgh has been outgained in offense every single game this year except the last one(after firing their OC) and they have the same record as us and every indication is they are a better team than we are. The reality of it is stefanski with everything going right is a middle of the road coach, when things go wrong, it gets exposed. We have never finished higher than 3rd in the division with him at the helm. Those are the stats that matter, not feelings.
2. DTR did improve as the game went on, and he took a step forward, I think in terms of building up his career, but that does not excuse the poor playcalling. We really needed to keep the D off the field in that environment. When Mark freaking Sanchez is seeing something as obvious as that, and our HC isn't, then it becomes a problem.
3. What percentage of our cap is tied up into injured players right now? I mean, man, WTF??? Not blaming anyone, but holy hell do we have the worst luck.
4. Newsome is not Ward.
5. Despite #4, the PI call was BS.
6. I expect to see a lot more teams run up the gut. We were vulnerable there yesterday.
Last week poster were calling for Ski to be extended… Bad Ski showed up today. The injuries were just insane. With DTR concussed, we’re either Starting the turnover machine or the old timer. Myles is injured. This game was as deflating as the Chubb game. I won’t count them out, but the Donks whipped our asses for 60 minutes. It was a team loss.
Frustrating game yesterday but not surprised we lost.
- I wish Stefanski would have started the game running more with Ford but after getting down two scores, I can understand why we continued to pass. Tons of drops by receivers didn't help him but DTR just isn't ready. At least not ready for a team with playoff aspirations. He was off on a good amount of his throws, frankly throws too hard at times as well, and is more of a liability than an asset at this point. In short, it's Flacco SZN. I think DTR has a lots of confidence in his ability and can get better, but not during a time when we are trying to secure a playoff berth.
- On defense, we tackled poorly and continued to show our main weakness on defense.....run stopping. I'd rather have that than a poor passing defense, obviously, but teams are going to exploit that more, IMO.
- These injuries to key players is getting out of hand.
- If I don't hear Mark Sanchez do another game, I'd die a happy man. Good god, he was terrible.
You can point to drops and poor execution (and you wouldn't be wrong), but I just find it really dumb to come out throwing and... continue throwing....
against a defense that's last in run defense, that feasts on turnovers, with a raw rookie QB on what's essentially his 2nd pro start. DTR needs to be coddled, not unleashed.
The defense was REALLY missing Ward today. Newsome vs Surtain was NOT a good matchup. This D seems to have trouble with QBs that can rack up yards with their feet. Wilson isn't a running QB anymore, but he's still got some wheels when needed. It's a weakness. Throw in some uncharacteristic undisciplined play, and you had a poo-the-bed situation.
Season isn't lost. Could be just a bump in the road for DTR (or not). On the next game where (IMO) I think we'll have a much clearer picture of DTR and the season in general. If DTR and the O can bounce back, then that'll be VERY positive for the season. If the D can heal up a little bit, that'll obviously be key.
Disappointing loss, but not one where we need to scope out bridges like some are saying.
What a sloppy game. Bad gameplan. Too many drops. Defense missing Ward. Everybody is injured. DTR played well. That was the only bright spot.
You've got people in glee here that he got hurt so we can start the Flacco era...the guy we just signed off his couch.
Super Bowl baby.
Who are these people? After the way DTR played it's obvious he's not ready for a playoff run whether he had gotten hurt or not. The fact you think anyone is celebrating that a Browns player got hurt shows your lack of understanding anything.
Thankfully I didn't see the game as I am travelling overseas and did watch the first half on ESPN gamecast whenever I could log in
What stood out on the stat line while checking espn and then seeing the final score is that we were runnung the ball less than we passed the ball. We had success running the ball and we didn't have success passing but we still run the ball less than we passed the ball. We got within 2 and kept passing.
It's an example of why I have continued to be suspicious of Stefanski as a play caller. I didn't see the drops. Didn't see the defense or other factors.... Reading that the team was flat and looked less well prepared than last week is another concern.
But onwards and upwards. If it's DTR or Flacco, I don't care. Whoever gives us the best chance to win.
He won't. This guy will NEVER get it. The Browns are going NOWHERE under his "leadership". And by NOWHERE, I mean being a consistent deep playoff performer in the AFC. If that is too much to ask, then so be it. But I think we can all agree that we have seen more than enough SUCK for a lifetime. And I am damn tired of it.
We're all damn tired of it Beast. Except for an occasional game or 2 it's usually the same nonsense. When the schedule came out months ago and I saw Denver I was 95% sure it would be a loss. WE can't beat them no matter what. Why is that? Ridiculous. We finally put together a talented team that can play with anyone and we have a plethora of injuries to our best players. Some have said that we are a cursed franchise. I'm starting to believe that in spades!! Don't we all already know what the news on MG will be?
Thankfully I didn't see the game as I am travelling overseas and did watch the first half on ESPN gamecast whenever I could log in
What stood out on the stat line while checking espn and then seeing the final score is that we were runnung the ball less than we passed the ball. We had success running the ball and we didn't have success passing but we still run the ball less than we passed the ball. We got within 2 and kept passing.
It's an example of why I have continued to be suspicious of Stefanski as a play caller. I didn't see the drops. Didn't see the defense or other factors.... Reading that the team was flat and looked less well prepared than last week is another concern.
But onwards and upwards. If it's DTR or Flacco, I don't care. Whoever gives us the best chance to win.
People forget that this game (if not for the 2 pt conversion drop by Cooper) would have been tied 14-14 with 6 minutes to go in the third quarter. I, too, would have liked Stefnaski to run the ball more early in the game but it is not the reason for the loss. I think we all expected the offense to more or less struggle (relatively speaking) because we have been playing backups most of the year. However, the defense equally matched the struggling yesterday. They played poorly as a unit (perhaps to do with both coaching and playing) outside of JOK who had a nice game. That, and we turned the ball over and were called for far too many defensive pentaties that gave them great field position at times.
There is a chance, by default, it will be Flacco due to the concussion sustained by DTR. That said, we need better QB play if we want the playoffs. So, if the team thinks they see that in Flacco, then go with him.
Flacco can count to 2 (that was the number of QBs we had rostered prior to his signing), and has watched the Browns from afar for most of his career. He knew what he was getting into when he signed, and if he didn't want to play, he wouldn't have signed.
There is a chance, by default, it will be Flacco due to the concussion sustained by DTR. That said, we need better QB play if we want the playoffs. So, if the team thinks they see that in Flacco, then go with him.
It's unclear to me what Walker brings to the table by being on the roster. If DTR is concussed and can't go, we are back to being 1 hit away from playing/starting Walker.
While I understand Denver's D rushing ranking (thank you Mark Sanchez for reminding us the whole game ) I think the game plan was to come out throwing early in the game to stop the d-backs from creeping up early in the game. In other words, stop them from stacking the box and instead have to respect the pass. I don't see anything wrong with that. There's two ways to go about it, either that way or do the obvious and come out running, which Denver probably expected. The issue became: dropped passes, penalties, team playing flat, players playing undisciplined, and being in the hole 14-0 right away.
When his coaching doesn't stink, I'll consider not referring to him as Stinkfanski.
The Browns are 7-4, not 4-7.
Browns AFCN Standings since KS arrival: 2020-21 - 3rd 2021-22 - 3rd 2022-22 - 4th 2023-2024- Currently 3 He has not coached the Browns in a playoff game - credit Alex Van Pelt for the lone victory since 1987.
I'm not calling for his firing, I'm calling for him to just be the HC and get someone capable of calling his offense in a more productive manner to be the "real" OC. He's not capable of consistent output for a sustained success rate.
He has had to use three QB's and will possible be starting a fourth this season. Who do you suppose you can find that will have a consistent success rate with P.J. Walker and DTR starting at QB? I'd like to see JAG with a 7-4 record after all of that.
So I watched... And Baskin is calmer and more balanced and Daryl is over the top..... But they aren't actually wrong.it's just varying degrees of how much you want to agree.
He has had to use three QB's and will possible be starting a fourth this season. Who do you suppose you can find that will have a consistent success rate with P.J. Walker and DTR starting at QB? I'd like to see JAG with a 7-4 record after all of that.
Despite the challenges of which they have been many the question for me is whether in every game and in every situation your head coach gave team the best chance to succeed. Again I have not seen the game so I am making a based on observations others have made but it does not seem as if that happened in this game
I am a big Stefanski guy but his play calling early was mind boggling to me knowing that Denver can’t play the run. I assume he was trying to open up the offense to make it easier to run but when Ford started to gash them he should’ve stayed with it. I don’t blame him for the double reverse. He had a new QB in and he wanted to get a chunk play.
Stefanski isn’t the only one to blame. The stupid penalties were killers. Newsome should spend less time trolling Ohio State fans (most are also Browns fans) on Twitter and more time studying film.
a small tear forms whenever I see the CBS graphic about the playoff standings, and see the Browns in the Top Wild Card slot, only to come to the realization that in a few weeks we'll be over on the other side where it says "In the Running", and will be having to win out and rely on some bizarre scenario to even make the last seed. And our luck will be that we'll be forced to play the steelers (again!) in the 1st round at their field.
He has had to use three QB's and will possible be starting a fourth this season. Who do you suppose you can find that will have a consistent success rate with P.J. Walker and DTR starting at QB? I'd like to see JAG with a 7-4 record after all of that.
Injuries are a part of every team, every year. It's a challenge. We agree that right now the Browns look like the ED on New Year's Eve. I'd be a lot more comfortable if the record was 7-4 if at least two of those 4 losses weren't due to mind boggling play calling when it's ok to play conventional football.
To your point - PJ is a documented Serial Drive Killer. Why put the ball in his hands when you need ball control - Seahawks game (INT + 2 Plays = Browns loss)? Denver, 32nd ranked run defense and Offensive plays were 24 Run vs 42 Pass with a Rookie QB and PJ.
This is why I think KS coaching stinks. It's why I think he's a JAG of coaches. He's a horrible game manager and does not appear to practice situational game management. He doesn't seem to learn from his mistakes and fans get to witness the futility of it. The Browns are 7-4 in spite of his play calling, not because of it.
Thanks for good discussion; it's ok to have opposite perspective.
Browns Postgame Scribbles: Hey Kevin Stefanski, PLEASE ... run the ball more & play smarter – Terry Pluto Updated: Nov. 27, 2023, 9:14 p.m.|Published: Nov. 27, 2023, 5:02 p.m. Cleveland Browns quarterback Dorian Thompson-Robinson vs. Denver Broncos, November 26, 2023
By Terry Pluto, cleveland.com CLEVELAND, Ohio – Scribbles in my notebook after the Browns lost 29-12 in Denver.
1. I’m trying not going to dwell on Kevin Stefanski’s ridiculous play-call in the fourth quarter. That was the reverse – or whatever – where No. 3 QB P.J. Walker handed the ball to Elijah Moore … who flipped the ball to Pierre Strong Jr. … who fumbled. Denver recovered and went on to score a TD. The game went from 17-12 Denver to 24-12 in favor of Denver. Game over. My column from that game titled “OH NO!” dealt with that fiasco.
2. What I didn’t realize until checking the stats after the game was that Stefanski called 29 passes for Dorian Thompson-Robinson (DTR). The rookie QB was knocked out of the game with 22 seconds left in the third quarter. He suffered a concussion. The score was 17-12 in favor of Denver. There was no need to throw the ball that much.
3. Hey, Kevin, you have a QB making his third pro start ... on the road ... in Denver, a tough place to play. You need to run the ball more, period. While DTR was in the game, Browns running backs Kareem Hunt and Jerome Ford carried the ball 15 times. That’s 29 passes to 15 runs when the score was 17-12.
4. Ford had nine carries for 65 yards. That’s productive. Hunt ran six times for 20 yards. Not good, but not awful. They were a combined 85 yards in 15 carries, a 5.7-yard average vs. a defense that ranks dead last in the NFL vs. the run. Let’s be fair on the run/pass ratio: DTR also carried the ball five times (21 yards). That still makes 20 running plays compared to 29 passing plays with DTR on the field in a close game. It’s still poor planning.
5. DTR was hurt by drops. Pro Football Focus said the Browns had only three: One each for David Njoku, Elijah Moore and Ford. I saw at least one other drop by Njoku, who is really struggling with catching the ball lately. Amari Cooper dropped a pass in the end zone that would have been a 2-point conversion. DTR was 14 of 29 passing for 134 yards, a TD and zero interceptions. As he did in the 13-10 victory over Pittsburgh, DTR looked poised – especially for a rookie thrown into the frenzy of midseason football.
6. I had to check when the Browns ran that trick play with Walker/Moore/Strong. It was the second play after DTR left the game. The score was 17-12 … I know., I keep dwelling on that … but why be tricky? My guess is Stefanski had little faith in Walker moving the ball running or throwing. So he tried a gadget play.
8. The argument against Walker and the trick play is that he had just come into the game – and a lot can go wrong. Which it did.
9. Three times, the Browns lined up in the “neutral zone.” That means they lined up wrong. It happened twice with Alex Wright, once with Myles Garrett. Center Ethan Pocic also had a pre-snap penalty for moving the ball too early. There also were false starts by offensive tackles James Hudson III and Geron Christian.
10. Add up all those penalties and you have SIX pre-snap penalties. That’s embarrassing. The Browns had only one penalty in their previous game, the13-10 victory over Pittsburgh.
11. Then there’s the defense. The Browns are being hurt by trap plays and other runs through the interior of the line. Stefanski did mention the need for the Browns to stop the run. Denver raced for 169 yards and a pair of TDs.
12. There are a lot of reasons to be disappointed by how the Browns performed, but the big three in order are: 1) Not running the ball enough. 2) Poor run defense. 3) Pre-snap penalties. Regardless of who is the QB this week vs. the Rams, that has to change or it will be another frustrating day for Browns fans.
All of the above on the road in high altitude is a formula to lose any game anywhere.
IMO it was a team loss. A few players like JOK played well. The coaching on offense and defense was poor.
The mental mistakes were drive killers, extra chances for Denver, or field position losses.
If you subtract the third and longs the run/pass ratio was 50/50.
DTR played a decent game. However, the drops were all in critical situations that would have changed the game.
Another observation regarding Jerome Ford. His vision to see the hole and accelerate is pss poor. He runs into the back of his blockers when the hole is right off his shoulder. He is so late at times to cut to the hole. I yell at the tv.
We are playing games with a 5th round rookie quarterback. A turnover prone PJ Walker backing the rookie. A second string tailback who is average at best. We have one legit experienced receiver. We are 7-4 because we have a good defense.
Expectations need to be realistic. We are not a team that is going to win playoff games. If we get to the playoffs and have a winning record. We will have over achieved.
I just enjoy hearing people with no idea how to coach an NFL team bloviate on how it should be done. I won't be joining in any reindeer games even though it tis the season as they say.
I think they tried to rotate guys to give them small breaks. Hudson and Jones as well as along the DL. They made an effort to keep guys fresh.
In the end there were just to many mistakes and turnovers. I am hopeful they will rebound.
I like this Browns team. They play hard and support each other. It appears that there is strong chemistry on this team.
I would have loved to see what we could have done with DW and Nick for a full season. Injuries are so common in football. It is impossible to look at a roster in camp and start to dream when injuries can ruin a season.
IMO one of the positions we should be looking at in the draft is running back. Ford is young. He may get better but I am uncertain about that.
Nick will attack rehab. We all know that. But we will need better depth.
I just enjoy hearing people with no idea how to coach an NFL team bloviate on how it should be done. I won't be joining in any reindeer games even though it tis the season as they say.
Not many sports writers out there with a pedigree of coaching at a high level in the sport they write about. Basically it'd be possible to pour the same scorn on anyone posting any opinion good or bad on these forums.... Doing it only selectively when you don't like the message isn't very fair imo.
IMO one of the positions we should be looking at in the draft is running back. Ford is young. He may get better but I am uncertain about that.
No doubt. Nothing says Nick will come back strong. He will be 28 next year which is nearing a RBs decline years under the best of circumstance. As for Ford, I think he is a very solid lead back. Even if he doesn't improve much, you can win with the guy.
We do need another back, be it in the draft, trade, whatever. Actually, maybe two. I think a team needs 3 pretty solid options at the position and I am not confident that Nick will be ready to start the season, and even when ready he won't be the same back we remember.
Because of the injuries at qb the receivers as a unit are hard to judge. Cooper is bonafide but only has another year on his contract.
Tillman shows promise. The rest have not done much. I thought Moore would be better. His production could be quarterback related. However, I do not see the explosive speed I was expecting.
We need more production from the passing game. Obviously DW has to produce. We need a real scary receiver. A stud who can really play.
I just enjoy hearing people with no idea how to coach an NFL team bloviate on how it should be done. I won't be joining in any reindeer games even though it tis the season as they say.
Not many sports writers out there with a pedigree of coaching at a high level in the sport they write about. Basically it'd be possible to pour the same scorn on anyone posting any opinion good or bad on these forums.... Doing it only selectively when you don't like the message isn't very fair imo.
People on this board don't claim to be experts, well with few exceptions, and they certainly don't make a living from it. Pluto seems to think he's an expert on everything including all sports and even things outside of sports. And he gets paid well for it. I would hope you understand that different standards apply. And I don't actually think he does any better job of stating his opinion than some people on this board have done. The only real difference is that he's a writer so it's better formatted.
Sports writers could easily have it's own thread nationally and local.
My family moved back to Cleveland in 1960 when I was twelve. My first job was delivering the Cleveland Plain Dealer seven days a week rain, snow, or shine.
Every morning at 5:00 am I went to the corner to get my bundle for delivery. I would sit in the garage and read the sports page.
Reading sports became a life long habit.
Reading the coverage of the Browns now is way different for me. Some of the local people I have gained respect for and others not so much.
Grossi I can do without. I find him dull and petty. Mary K has gained my respect. She has persevered in a tough business. She has seen a lot and has knowledgeable insight into the Browns. I think she is trusted and probably has the best inside info on what is going on.
Pluto is an opinion guy. I sometimes read him. I agree with you. I don't think he is much better than some on this Board.
People try to make football more than it is. I don't think the game it is all that complicated. The detail of position technique is complicated. Like learning a golf swing, hitting a baseball, or casting a fly line. There is minute detail.
When national writers talk Browns. They are nothing more than headlines. They cover all the teams so really they know little about any single team.
The one person who I like and respect is Aditi Kinkhabwala. She knows football. Knows the league. Asks good questions. Has a ton of contacts inside the league. She seems like a really cool woman. Whenever she is on "The Ultimate Cleveland Show." I listen to her and I respect her opinion.
What happens often times is what people think of reporters is based on what their opinions and takes happen to be. At one time most liked MKC. Then she started publishing things that were unpopular and people trashed her. Now that they like what she's saying again they deem her credible. I'm not referring to you here just the overall vibe of the board. Grossi was hugely popular at one point. Then when they no longer liked what he was reporting his take he was trashed. Sadly for Browns fans he was far more right than wrong. But people just didn't like hearing it. It's simply the way things work. People are willing to hear what they want to hear and reject what they don't.
The dilemma we have as a team is we really don't know how good we can be because of all the injuries. We've seen glimpes of what we could be on O when DW plays well and we have a healthy O-Line. We've seen more examples on D where we've been dominant and then we get hit with a multitude of injuries. Very frustrating and demoralizing not only for us fans but I'm sure for the players too.
I just enjoy hearing people with no idea how to coach an NFL team bloviate on how it should be done. I won't be joining in any reindeer games even though it tis the season as they say.
Not many sports writers out there with a pedigree of coaching at a high level in the sport they write about. Basically it'd be possible to pour the same scorn on anyone posting any opinion good or bad on these forums.... Doing it only selectively when you don't like the message isn't very fair imo.
People on this board don't claim to be experts, well with few exceptions, and they certainly don't make a living from it. Pluto seems to think he's an expert on everything including all sports and even things outside of sports. And he gets paid well for it. I would hope you understand that different standards apply. And I don't actually think he does any better job of stating his opinion than some people on this board have done. The only real difference is that he's a writer so it's better formatted.
But it was you who conflated posters and journalists when you talked about you - as a poster - not joining in. It read to me that posters were also tainted with your criticism. And people always gravitate to reading articles and journalists who they tend to broadly agree with. We have Qunicy (Carter?) widely liked and posted in the forums - I've never heard you trash his opinion because he wasn't a coach. So again - I'm not sure you are being balanced with who and how you attack other opinions. jmo. If it wasn't meant that way I won't take it that way.
And people always gravitate to reading articles and journalists who they tend to broadly agree with. We have Qunicy (Carter?) widely liked and posted in the forums - I've never heard you trash his opinion because he wasn't a coach. So again - I'm not sure you are being balanced with who and how you attack other opinions. jmo. If it wasn't meant that way I won't take it that way.
So you mean I'm just like everyone else who sticks up for what they agree with and go up against things they disagree with? If so, guilty as charged. I'm still not sure what you think the big deal is about that.
You dimissed an opinion because the person making the opinion isn't an NFL coach. You then said you weren't going to jump on that same wagon. I pointed out that with that pemise you can dismiss any and all opinions by writers and posters.... at which point you said you were only dismissing professional journalist's opinions...It's not hard to follow and it's not a big deal.
And I do that as well. Pluto writes about every sport and even things outside of sports. I don't take him seriously. There are certain posters I feel the same way about and there are posters who feel that way about me. Professional journalists have one goal. To get hits an their web sites and sell their publications. That's what their profession is. It's much easier to see how some of them say even more outlandish things that Pluto in order to achieve that goal. Once one understand what their actual goal is it's much easier to understand a lot of what they write.
) I think the game plan was to come out throwing early in the game to stop the d-backs from creeping up early in the game. In other words, stop them from stacking the box and instead have to respect the pass. I don't see anything wrong with that. There's two ways to go about it, either that way or do the obvious and come out running, which Denver probably expected. The issue became: dropped passes, penalties, team playing flat, players playing undisciplined, and being in the hole 14-0 right away.