Might as well start them now.

I got nothing to say as what i would really like to say would not be good...since this forum frowns on the use of "color methaphors" i digress.

this team is sad

I say we draft more offensive and defensive linemen next year.

Give McCown His Clip board and start Johnny ...

My team stinks.. But I saved a bunch on my auto insurance!!

#startmanziel

Oh yeah, the Cavs start next month!

#STARTMANZIEL!

This team is a mess on all sides of the ball. Raiders pass at will on us, run the ball at will on us - they just do whatever they want at will on us. Our pass protection sucks, we have no lanes to run through and we're supposed to have this "elite offensive line"... heh. Josh McCown looks/looked inaccurate all damn day. It's clear we have no WR to cause seperation and I'm sick of hearing about Bowe.

The defense sucks, can't get off the field on 3rd down and when they finally do, it's a running into the kicker flag right back on it. Forever the story of unable to plug up the run. This team is a total, complete and horrendous mess. We are constantly getting beat deep.

Mingo is useless too. All our OLB are useless outside of Kruger and Bryant when he plays there. Whatever...

Time to tee off.

What will the excuses be this week?

Y'all need to shake your battered fan syndrome.

This game's not over yet!

Well ... maybe now ....

OL let the LB just crush mccown on that sack.

That was a QB read. Assuming he has control over the line protection.

I thought the Browns split line calls.

Two post game thoughts:

1. This team is poorly coached.

2. Haden is a fraud. Him getting punked by a rookie receiver set the tone for this game.

Why did you post this way before it ended?

Post game thought? That was the McCown that I thought the Browns signed. Always was a loser and deserves to be relegate to the bench in his usual backup role! Start Manziel the rest of the year and evaluate.

I don't know. Just know that the guy came clean on a delayed pass rush straight up the middle.

This is what you get when Josh McCown and Dwayne Bowe are your big free agent acquisitions for the off season. Thanks Pettine, for taking the "safe route" by playing the veteran QB and proven loser who gives this team absolutely no future. Man. Why do I continue to watch this year after year hoping for something different?

because it was over at halftime.

Regardless of everything that happened late in this game, you CANNOT play defense like we did most of today. There was some missed coverage and guys open and that happnens. Whiffing on tackles and not wrapping up is unacceptable at this level. That's awful. These guys are professionals.

Credit the team for hanging in there, but this offense and defense was so bad early on. McCown has to hit those deep routes. I kinda laugh at people who say Manziel underthrew guys on his TD passes. The NFL with QB's is all about giving your guy a chance. Even the great QB's put up bombs that are slightly underthrown. The deep balls thrown by McCown didn't even allow for the WR to make a play.

The running game is a joke. The run defense is also a joke. Pettine needs to take a lot for that. Defensive guy and his team looks unprepared on defense. That better get cleaned up.

Joe Haden was awful today.

Our linebackers were terrible.

This offensive line can't run block to save their mothes' lives.

Better come out prepared next week.

Defense did not play there best game, BUT we lost on 4 count them 4 underthrown deep balls to wide open WR's ... JMHO

post game thoughts:

our entire team is terrible.

Our QB sucks
Our OL sucks. stop making excuses for this unit. they can't runblock for anything. they're barely average in pass protection.
WR were open all game. but our OL and QB sucks.

our defense......ugh...haden was the main one, but we got zero pressure on Carr. another game with zero sacks. we can't stop the run, we can't stop the pass, we can't tackle.

Special teams also was terrible today. a muffed punt, running into the kicker, and a illegal block in the back. both penalties on mingo, of course.

I'm tired of Gabriel, benji, and hawk absolutely destroying guys running routes, getting open deep, for McCown to either underthrow it or underthrow it.

manziel needs to start.

Whats the point in having such a deep threat like Benji if we dont have a QB in who can get him the ball

I think I'd rather put up with the lumps we're going to take while our young qb gets reps to get better and not our old qb get reps and not get better.

After seeing the first 3 games this team is not as good as some of us thought. The D was suppose to be very good it is not same with the O-line. Today felt just like many other Sundays over the years. The same play and mistakes are made year after year it never changes.

Bengals just beat the Ravens who are now 0-3
tiny ben went down today for the steelers. Don't know how bad it is, but one can hope he blew a knee.

Point is, if this team was worth spit right now we'd have a good shot at moving up a few spots in the division. Unfortunately I don't think we can beat even a mediocre team. Our ONLY shot is beating bad ones. And we don't play many of those this year.

We can't play defense. Can't stop the run. Can't stop the pass.
We can't play offense. We can't run the ball. We can barely pass the ball.

As bad as the run game is, and as bad as our defense is, we are going to have to throw the ball virtually every down. I don't care who the QB is, if we have to throw every down we are doomed.

Unless Pettine lights a fire under this teams ass we are in for a LONG season followed very quickly by a new GM and HC search. I'm hoping for Brian Billick at HC.

Positives: They didn't quit.

Negatives: Everything else.

Defense looked on the verge of quitting. They were arm tackling like PeeWee's. Hell if I arm tackled like that I'd have been running a LOT of laps when I was in PeeWee. Coach didn't feature poor tackling....

half a dozen potential TDs left blown by McCown. He held it to long and missed guys that had their man beaten badly. Pet will say its not the QB, but this was one crappy performance by Pet's guy.

Defense is a joke. Other than Hughes and Bryant I dont know if anyone else bothered showing up.

I have no desire to watch this turd festival on display next sunday.

So, after today, does Pettine still say that McCown gives him the best chance to win?

There are no ZIP ZERO positives for this team. We are looking at another re-boot. We are at least 5 years away from a 0.500 record with the current talent...that's if we fire Farmer.

When do the Cavs start?

Every fan in the world knows McCown stinks and all the play call mistakes were going to make game after game.

Why is the coach of the Cleveland Browns always the only one in the world thats clueless?

I'll be at the game!

Go Browns!

I was glad to see 1 of our TE's to step up.Barnidge had a good game

who do we play?

@ San Diego.

Guys if we can't run the ball it really doesn't matter who plays QB. You really want to see Johnny throwing the ball 40 times a game? Losing our running game is killing this season. Our "top five" defense playing more like bottom five is killing this season. That said, we should play Johnny until he gets hurt. He's better than McCown. That doesn't mean he's awesome, doesn't mean he's even an NFL starter. But while he can stay healthy he should be playing. McCown blows. Bad.

This staff believes the mccown in practice when no one is hitting him is the QB that shows up on sunday. idiots

we're gonna get smoked.

we have nobody that can guard Allen. haden can't cover anybody this year.

Team loss, Oakland is WAY more talented. I give the Browns props for coming back as much as they did, but they were not the better team today.

Going forward, Manziel gives us a much better chance to win. McCown is average only when he is at his best.

Yes.

You need to give this up.

Pettine is not making a switch unless Haslam comes into his office and says you're safe if we don't win another game this season. Start Manziel.

Pettine doesn't really have any idea what he's doing along with his two coordinators. We are going to have to live through these growing pains.

And if you keep this up I will have to add a fourth person who doesn't know what he's doing.

Like I said, Pettine has no idea what he's doing.

That's a sure loss. West Coast road trip for a team that is near the bottom at road trips.... plus zero defense....

In my best Mr. T voice: "What do I predict? Pain!"

I don't want to be all gloom and doom, but this was a hot mess. Our decisions on starting qb should be questioned. McCown is inaccurate and lacks arm strength. He has feet of stone. I just do not see what Pettin sees in him. I'm not a Manzel fan but at least he provides something to look at. Continuing this course will go nowhere. Three games into the season we should have an identity.

We'll win because I will be there. I've been to two Browns' games and they've lost both. Third times a charm!

how is it that we had zero sacks.

we only pressured carr once.

No one has touched Carr in the first three games.

I'd expect more of the same next week. Rivers throws it like two yards every play.

There are dozens of people on this site who know way more than I do. But I wanted us to draft Derek Carr. I thought he was better than Bridgewater or Bortles. I threw things when we drafted Gilbert. I liked the Shelton pick, but hated the Erving pick. The idiocy we went through to get Terrance West - what the hell was that?
There were so many receivers over the years I wanted. I wondered why we couldn't use a late pick on La'ell Collins. On and on. I guess my point is, why am I, who has a regular job, better prepared for the draft than Ray Farmer? Why is it so many of us, and not at all with 20-20 hindsight, make better decisions than this front office?

Pettine just said that maybe some of these guys got caught reading their own press clippings. Buying into their own hype.

When are the players on this team going to stop doing that. We play bad, and lose. Guys come in more focused and ready to play, and play well. The following week they relax and have a day like today. It's like they don't learn from their own mistakes. Like sure, coaching plays into that with prep and everything, but that's more on the player than anyone else. I can bury Pettine and his staff for a lot, but I won't on this one. That's on the player. Anyone who has watched a full week of the NFL knows that's not how it works.

If Pettine was smart he would make the switch tomorrow in time for next week's game and let Johnny take all the first team reps. That way he would have a better chance of being on the same page with everyone. I'm sorry, but I don't want to wait until the year is out of reach to bench McCown and start Manziel. We need to do this now and not dilly dally around. I know that we have the contract situation with McCown but the writing is on the wall with how the guy plays on the field, it's pretty simple in my opinion.

https://twitter.com/NateUlrichABJ/status/648237602148118530

No poop. Like he could have put more air under it if he wanted to.

i hope he wasn't talking about the WR hype though.

because they was on it today, but our QB couldn't deliver a strike to save his life.

gabriel and benji were tearing up the secondary.

I don't care what Mike has to say at this point he's JAG. Felt that way she we hired him. He was just a last resort option becaus nobody else wanted to coach this team.

Benjamin also muffed a punt.

yea he sure did.

Regardless of whether or not Farmer and Pettine survive this year, I really hope they stay almost entirely away from free agency.

You want to sign lower level guys or maybe try to find a gem? That's totally cool, but we should not be handing out 9m guaranteed to Dwayne Bowe. That should end this year. The majority of this core should be on hoemgrown drafted players. Dwayne Bowe is a burglar and nothing more.

Just look at Suh in Miami and other big time signings, they never pan out. I hope fans realize that the next time we don't spend cap money.

Unless Drew Brees becomes a free agent. If that's the case then give him all the money.

Post Game Thoughts:

The heavy investment in the o-line and ignoring skill positions has proven futile. The o-line leaves a lot to be desired.

The Browns have the second highest, if not the highest defensive payroll in the NFL and we still can't stop the run or get off the field in 3rd and long situations.

The Browns cannot tackle.

Poor preparation and initial effort from the team. It oddly seemed reminiscent of when Manziel got the start over Hoyer in the Bengals game last year.

I can't see the team winning, but maybe two or three more games this year.

Hell, it's hard to tell what exactly is the plan. A bunch of aging players on defense and an inept offense.

Start Manziel from here on out. There is nothing to be gained by continuing with McCown. We are looking at double digit losses either way.

I hope Farmer had on the NFL Sunday ticket to see that WRs actually do impact the game, see: Amari Cooper, Julio Jones, Antonio Brown and AJ Green. Hell, the old vet Steve Smith kept the Ravens in the game down to the wire.

The bottom line, this team needs playmakers and strong leaders and the Browns severely lack both.

So that jackass saw the safety and still threw that ball? unfreakingbelieveable.

Pet is done for, to bad. I like the guy and believe he has it in him to be a good coach but I watched the presser and put a fork in him.

Donte Whitner was our worst player. And we had a lot of bad players.

He's also been terrible the first two weeks.

wish we would've kept Ward.

Obviously.

It's 5:00PM in Ohio isn't it?

Good.

Since I was born in Ohio my body is on EST and I can go ahead and start drinking.

After that game, it's warranted.

Not directly to you Sperg...More or less to Pettine and his idiocracy...How does he say his own players brought into their own hype? what hype? We were 1-1 leading into this game...I think what Pettine means is he cant coach players nor have them stay focused for him...Sad

Blaming the players is the first sign of a cracking exterior.

SPEAK FOR YOURSELF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

SuperBrown was right about something!?!?!?!?!

Like you are telling me/us something new???

And Brian Billick is a moron and has been out of coiaching for yearssssssssssssssssssssssssssss!!!!!!!!!!

You people are amazing.

Wow! I wonder if the tackle saw Mack the second time he came and still whiffed the block that made Josh throw from his back foot for like the 25th time in the game?

Two things right in a row.

He's on a roll. Get out of his way.

One other thing.

Really with that roughing the punter? How DUMB is this team?

Three separate guys hit the punter. Obviously, it was an all-out block. We were trying to make something happen. It sucked, but I kinda understood it.

But....they CAN'T DRAFT AT ALL. They have been freaking gawd damn awful in the draft for 17 straight years. Where is the talent going to come from?

Especially with a fourth and five. Even a running into the punter gets a first down.

I have no sympathy for McCown. He was holding the ball to long all day. His passes were everywhere but on target. These receivers were getting open, they were getting behind the DBs deep and the QB would step up, step up again for some reason then throw off his back foot all freaking game.

The draft. It has to turn around. That's the only way we're going anywwhere. Building vi FA will not work in Cleveland.

Why are you even going after the punt. You are gonna get the ball back in good position. Its 4th and 1. even a simple running into the kicker gets them a first. just set up your blocks and enjoy the benefits of a good defensive stop.

That's why you fire Farmer tonight. Not tomorrow tonight and move on immediately. He as been even worse than Heckert when I didn't think it was possible.

All I can say is two fifty yard gains were directly Whitners fault. The one with the fullback, he tried his usual shoulder tackle and knocked Gipson off the runner. He can't cover anybody, and misses more tackles than anybody on the team.

This defense is horrible. I blame the scheme more than anything. Constant man to man in the NFL is a QBs dream. Haden was just behind Whitner for being the worst player today. I have not seem him cover anybody good all year.

Teams have punished the Raiders with the TE, hell Barnidge was lighting them up, but they waited too long to get him involved. McCown was absolutely horrible for three quarters. Guys open everywhere and he is missing them. The Oline is not a strength, they are average at best, but McCown holds the ball forever, and when he does throw quickly, he's off target.

Trying that same run play for two quarters was driving me batty. I don't blame the backs, IMO they are both good, it is the blocking that is lacking.

McCown showed me one thing today, he can't handle adversity. He looked shaky and uncertain for most of the game. He does not feel pressure well, and takes hits unnecessary.

All in all, IMO the defense lost this game. I don't want to hear about being on the field too long, that was their fault. Kruger is still not setting the edge, and when the back turns the corner Whitner either whiffs, or the run right past him.

As bad as McCown was all day, he managed to bring us close. If the defense does anything at all, we still had a chance.

I wonder why they didn't review Benji's muff. It sure looked like he fell right on the ball, and had it pulled away from him on the ground. No review. I thought all turnovers were subject to review.

My hope for this team is over. The defense plays with no passion, and the Oline looks like a bunch of rookies. I don't usually blame Pettine much, but this team did not show up inspired to win. They are the same in game. They make a good play then blow a big one on the next. Dansby is not showing me much this year either.

My optimism is gone, I see another double digit loss season.

Exactly. It wasn't a player issue, it was a coaching issue.

All is not lost. Our true #1 WR (Invisi-Bowe) should be back next week to rescue us from this turmoil.

So we had zero sacks, 1 tackle for loss, zero qb hits.

oakland had 5 sacks, 8 tackles for a loss, 7 qb hits.

Invisi-Bowe.

I say cut him and bring back Pryor. We need somebody with big play ability

How sweet would it have been to give Chud another year, then fire him, the hire Rex Ryan?

At least we would have a team that plays hard and a coach that shows some fire.

If you don't start Manziel now, there is no plan. What is the plan for this team? Stop bowing down to guys like Thomas and Hartline. Who gives two craps what these guys think. They are paid to play, not make personnel decisions or worry about the short-term vision of the team. Tell them to shut the hell up and if they don't like it too bad.

If you don't start Manziel now, you have no plan.

And as agitated as I am, you have to stick with Pettine and Farmer. Can't turn this over again. Haslam needs to demand they start Manziel. When you lose at home to the Raiders and look like crap doing it, it's likely a wasted season. Take your lumps and let him get some experience. Focus the draft on all other positions except QB. Give Pettine and Farmer another year.

So why sign Pryor?

He could at least take the field

The Raiders do seem to have acquired quite a bit of talent.

Not sure what to think about that. I originally meant it as an excuse...as in...losing to them might not be all that bad, but then I started thinking that they sure have seemed to do a better job of upgrading their roster than Farmer and company has.

<<sigh>> Who knows........

Who knows - maybe the Raiders win even without that play but that felt like the game right there.

Other thoughts - I am now ready for JMM ... maybe I still have my rose colored spectacles on but I think JMM wins the game if he is on the field for the last drive ... it was a beautiful route by TB to get open ... and McCown could have thrown the ball to him on a line for a big play .... or gone deep and hit him for a TD. . . but he didn't and I gotta feel that 3 times out of 5 JMM hits him for the big play.

I dont think Pet can get out of his own way to coach another year and Bowe is probably the end of Farmer as well. Benching the hot hand and then having a team show up with no heart, refusing to tackle, just going through the motions. He has a chance to turn it around but we both know, this team is close to total collapse. We are talkign 1-15 type of effort today.

Signing Pryor isn't going to do anything to help this team...

We need an experienced receiver who could step in and play right away.

I'm not convinced our receivers are the problem right now. Sure, we could use a legit #1 but McCown did an OKAY job spreading the ball around today.

Today a few things really stuck out to me...

#1 - My lord does Mitchell Schwartz stink. I cannot believe he still has a job at right tackle.

#2 - Our run blocking sucks. That's it.

#3 - I really, really miss Kyle Shanahan. I knew when he left that our offense was going to suffer, and it is. His fast pace, no huddle, zone running offense was great last year. This year, our offense is slow, flat and extremely predictable. It took being down 20-3 to finally spread the field and pick up the pace a bit.

#4 - McCown started slowly, but honestly I didn't think he looked THAT bad when you consider he had ZERO run game, and the offensive line got worked early on...

#5 - The defense looked really, really lethargic. We addressed the interior of the defensive line, but now it looks like our linebackers need evaluated. None of them seem to shed blocks, or make any kind of positive impact...

All in all.

Today was a team loss all around.

I'm not screaming for McCowns beheading (yet) but I do think if we end up losing in San Diego next week (which is very possible) it would make sense to just play Manziel. I don't necessarily think he'll turn us into a winner, but he needs the experience.

It was nice that they got to focus this year's draft on non-QB positions. That helps.

If we don't let Johnny play, we will have no choice. We will have t draft a QB next year. Wash, rinse, repeat.

We could have had Buff's first, Beckham, K.Benjamin, and Carr.

I read that Carr was the #1 rated QB on Farmer's board.

the raiders offensive weapons are 10 times better than the Browns ... Carr, Murray, Crabtree, Reece, Cooper, Holmes ... wow

It was probably DAvid Carr lol

The plan appears to be self preservation. Pettine doesn't appear confident in Haslam's statement that he and Farmer were safe no matter what. That explains starting the vet.

Pettine is severely lacking in strong leadership qualities.

The plan as a whole seems ill conceived.

I don't think Johnny Manziel did enough to close the gap in the preseason and training camp, that's likely why Pettine chose to go with Josh McCown. The plan before the season was to play elite defense, and then be efficient on offense and minimize what we needed out of our quarterback. It just hasn't worked out that way yet. Mike Pettine had to consider all the veterans in the locker room when making the decision on the QB. You have to go with the guy who you think gives your team the better chance at winning, and I think McCown has/had a lot of locker room support during training camp and the preseason.

Not a lot you can do when you get limited first team snaps, and zero reps in preseason with the first team.

McCown was all but announced the starter going into preseason. There was no quarterback competition.

Johnny's problems obviously played into that, because I think the team didn't want to put that much pressure on him in training camp.

So you can fault Johnny for losing a year and part of an offseason, but don't fault him for not winning a non-existent quarterback competition in the preseason.

I said it in the Game Day thread and to anyone else around that would listen....

We have the stupidest football team in the history of the NFL. I mean, you almost have to try to put yourself into these situations. Even the worst teams can avoid it on occasion. Not the Browns.... Moth to the flame. Every. Single. Time.

This is what I believe Farmer is doing also. Just my opinion, but I think Farmer's super conservative (mostly defense) approach to the draft is what he thinks will buy him more time. Same kind of thing Holmgren/Heckert, to a smaller degree, were doing before their last draft when they pretty much knew they were goners. All it's doing is buying him a ticket out of town.

I don't think he has to at all. Screw what the veterans think. Make decisions that benefit the long-term future of your team.

45-86 - The Browns record since they drafted Joe Thomas.

Raiders were 2-22 on the road the past 4 years

That's how bad the 2015 Browns are

Shelton is terrrible. Did you see that 2&10 run after the Offense scored the first TD to get some momentum? He was completely moved out 1on1 by an OL. The hole was so big a SUV could have driven through. This is the third game opposing RBs have rushed for about 150yds on less than 30 carries. Pathetic. The run D has gotten worse under Farmer/Pettine and both share responsibilities for it. And it will get both fired. Only 13 games left.

Agreed, other than Joe Thomas the rest of the vets on the team can go cry somewhere else. Ain't a single damn "vet" on this team outside of him that deserves to be thought of. They're nothing but scrubs collecting a free paycheck. Who cares what they think?

Starting a QB that isn't ready is how you lose a locker room too...

You can't play a QB just because he needs experience, when you have a veteran who might be capable of winning right now. When you have a competitive team full of veterans (most of which are sick of losing) you have to go with the safer choice and play the guy who gives you a better chance at winning.

I'm not defending McCown. I'm being objective because I see logic in starting him.

But I am in complete agreement that Manziel needs the experience, and I think a loss in San Diego might warrant a switch at QB because Manziel DOES need the reps.

This isn't a competitive team full of vets. If there were guys in the locker room worth worrying about I'd get it.

Oh man


This really is like a Mangini team. Let your talent go. Be more concerned with vets, character and special teams players then actual talent. This is going to be a LONG season fellas.

a list of guys who I never heard doing anything positive today:


Whitner
Gipson
Haden
Gilbert
Dansby
Starks
Kruger
Mingo
Mack
Schwartz
Gabriel
Housler
Dray
Shelton
Bitonio


The list goes on and on ... a lot of high draft picks on that list too

Gipson had a nice TFL on a blitz.

Mingo made a great play for the Raiders by roughing the punter.

I'm curious how many posters like Eotab and GM Dawg can come out defend the
Job Farmer has done.
No playmakers at WR,LB.a oline built on finese.
He overpaid for a WR who scored ZERO Tds in 2014.
Signed a journeyman QB WHO IS A CAREER LOSER!

This team has to play perfect to win on Sundays. No margin for error.

see i disagree with a couple points...yes you DO start Manziel because he needs reps, thats the new standard today..noone just sits anymore, especially first round picks. You take the lumps year one and then you have an idea what you need to move forward.

As far as losing the locker room, pfft, there isn't one person in that locker room that I care to keep if they don't want to do a job they are being paid millions to do. Its not their place to influence coaching decision, its their jobs to trust the coaching decision. So if they are that fragile, than we have much bigger problems imo. McCown isn't safer by any stretch of the imagination..being a veteran and being a veteran worth anything is two different things. McCown has not shown he can do anything more than we've seen out of Manziel and he's been given much more opportunity. I promise you Manziel hits 2-3 of the 4 of those long passes and I think it would have been another win. But we went "safe" and he looked scared and lost and to be honest looked more like a rookie than Manziel has all this year.

i like how people are always like "all the vets except Thomas"

how many wins, or how much leadership has he provided, again?

they all suck.

What evidence of big play ability have you seen from pryor? I'm thinking the fact he still isn't signed should tell us all we need. I agree with the premise, just not the player..lol

Funny you should say that..I'd almost consider trading him if the price was right...ring ring..Elway? could you guys use a LT? Joe is a great pass blocker, very durable but a crappy finesse guy who can't open holes in the run game...just like the rest of the line.. I'd almost consider trading him, almost as much for his benefit as hours. All I know is theres so much futility on this team is so hard to see any light in the tunnel then alone the end of it. We need a Parcells/Cowher/Accorsi type guy to manage this for Haslam..Not a single person on our staff earned their position.

They changed the game from Browns/Raider today to Tenn/Colts on TV so I was listening on the Radio. At least 6 times, I heard the announcers say he overthrew receivers that were open and McCown was not under pressure. I don't know if that it true but it sounded like he was just 'off' for most of the game..so much so i was wondering if he was indeed having lingering affects from the concussion - maybe downfield vision or timing?

The only reason I wouldn't trade JT is that he'll be a HOF and I want him to play his entire career in Cleveland. It's a weird reason, but he's gone this far with us ... he can get through 3-5 more years

JT is not a run blocker? When do they ever try to run to the left?

we never do ... our staff thinks pulling Bitonio is his best strength, which explains why we always run to the right.

except that never works either

#BadNewsBrowns.

I love the Browns but we suck. I have never seen a team that looks terrible but still manages to be "in it"

we have to find a new identity because playing like a Brown is not an identity I want to see any longer.

Thats kind of selfish, Sure if we were decent or showing signs of being close yes, but let the poor man get a taste of meaningful football

He looked better when we abandoned the run. Too many times we'd run on first for 2 yards, then either incomplete pass, maybe a penalty. But the offense is to reliant on having to inch your way across the field. You've gotta be able to pick up big plays on first or second so you don't have to constantly convert on 3rd down. Can't live like that. It's great when it works, but the odds are against you. That's why I kinda laugh when people say McCown's first and only drive in New York is some kind of style. It's not. You're not going to string together multiple 17 play 6-7+ minute drives in a game. It just doesn't work that way.

McCown missed some easy throws. He missed a simple inside slant that high school quarterbacks have down pat. Some of the play calls didn't work as well, where even if it was a complete pass, it wasn't going anywhere.

I flamed Brian Hoyer for showing his true colors when the run game was taken away. Good QB play is a given in the NFL when you have success with the run. The great quarterbacks in the league can operate when it doesn't. Brady, Rodgers, Ben, etc.. Those guys can set up running plays by their passing.

We kept hearing over and over about how Hoyer learned from Tom, and blah blah blah.

With McCown, he's being brought in as a vet with all this experience, and he looks like a young quarterback at times. He's gotta get dinged for that. He's throwing behind receivers, missing deep routes, and just like we grilled Manziel, he's holding onto the ball a little too long.

I have to say through 7ish quarters of Manziel, and almost 5 of McCown, Manziel looks better. Given, Manziel was handed better defense last week, and McCown reeived a turd burger by ours this week, but there's no doubt that Manziel's deep ball looks a lot better, and this offense is big play starved.

I'd at least consider it for Sunday.

it's very selfish of me ... but if I have to stick with the browns so does he

I just looked up the stats from the game today..

McCown was 28/49 for 341 yards...2 TDs and 1 INT...5 sacks...about 84 QB rating...

Listening to the game - he was way worse sounding that his actual numbers came out.. I didn't remember us throwing almost 50 times!

More telling - Rushing...WOW : A meager 14 attempts for 39 yards.. I had not idea we were so lopsided.

Not sure what to think of that disparity..

I don't think Joe Thomas even likes football.

I think he likes it ... doesn't love it or have a driven passion to be the best/a winner. JMHO, I've never met him ... but he seems to be content with whatever

Listen to his interview on the Brownscast. He definitely doesn't care.

touche...lol

That's great. Don't know what to do in free agency. Don't know what to do on draft day. I'd say the Browns are in EXCELLENT shape for the future. Farmer. LMAO

Our MNF game against the Ravens is shaping up to be a classic.

Oh...great...we're now at the "owner needs to make the call on the QB" strategy. That will work just fine.

I agree in principle...but please just word it a little better. Give Pettine next year IF he puts Manziel in now. Just don't let the media print "Haslam makes lineup change with Manziel." That's all I'm saying.

Disagree on Farmer. He is a complete waste. If he has a job after his suspension is over, Haslam is dumber than I thought.

Not many GMs getting fired in week five.

The Browns don't do anything else like an "NFL team". Might as well fire him and make that a first too. LOL

He should but you're right he won't. I'd fire him and get the other guy in place before next years draft so it isn't a complete waste especially since we will likely be picking top 3.

My post game thought is that I am glad that I was unable to listen to most of the game due to a prior commitment and that I couldn't record it because it wasn't broadcast locally.

Paraphrasing..."We're going to win by running the ball and playing defense." Really? Well please let the fans know when you intend to make an effort in doing so. Because today, from what I read, that did NOT happen.

I will continue to say this: As long as the fans keep filling seats, buying food and beer and Browns gear, NOTHING is going to happen. Berea is interested in their bank account, not much else. It doesn't matter who the next coach or GM is. It really doesn't.

Until I actually see progress, I have ZERO faith in this team. I will NOT spend a single dime on them. They are not worth it. They are barely worth my time.

Exactly. Start putting a plan together NOW. Work WITH the coach, not in spite of him.

That means another crappy hire. Our past three GMs were hired without a real GM search.

That only works if you draft well. Richardson, Mingo, Gilbert, Manziel, Shelton, Cameron Erving Six first round picks in four years. Shelton seems a solid starter. Otherwise we have hurt ourselves greatly. Richardson of course was a bust. Mongo? Bust. Dilbert? Bust. Johnny is a LONG shot, Erving wasn't good enough to beat anyone out for a starting spot... You can't draft guys like Mingo and rely entirely on the draft. Guys like Dilbert the bumbass KILL any hope of improvement.

Fire Farmer now and you'll have plenty of time for a long GM search. Not like a GM does a lot during the season anyway. Use one of his underlings as an interim and do your search. Then work with him to hire a head coach after the season...

The Browns should not fire another coach until they know exactly who they want, and through some back channels, know that he wants to come.

We keep swinging and missing on the coaches we want. The fact that our last 3 fired head coaches got no more than 2 years probably plays into that.

I want Pettine to turn this around, but that dude won't be taken seriously on anything when his team is getting burned on the ground like they did today, and 2 weeks ago, and all of last year. That's unacceptable.

No respectable GM is interviewing during the season. Firing Farmer at the end of the season will give us plenty of time to find a replacement (if we fire him).

General thought. I know a lot, a LOT of posters on this board have been posting here for decades, and that means they've been following the Browns for just as long. And all of those posters have seen some devastating losses.

Now we can blame the offenseive line, (who played like a bunch of little kitties in my opinion.) A lack of a running game. A defense who can't stop "every" pass, because Idiots believe an all pro corner should stop "every" pass all freakin year long.

But those aren't the real reason, and it took me years, and all these decades long dawgtalkers know over the years.
No matter the coach, the defense, the run game, the o line, the d line, even a ...well except or a defesne who refuses to tackle and gives up 700+ yards to one guy in two games, except for that

NOTHING OVER TRUMPS BAD QUARTERBACK PLAY!

Now whether one guy is not intelligent enough to even see more than one receiver, and he can't start for that reason,

And for that reason you have to go with the inaccurate veteran who lacks the strength to even have a D- day.

Well, you're going to end up with this pile of dirt we saw today. Because in spite of the offensive line, the db's or even the run game.

It all coulda, been better if the Qb coulda got the job done.

The Raiders were held to 3 points for the first quarter and a half. And THIS OFFENSE, couldn't muster anything but broken dreams of broken drives.

Forget anything else to complain about.
I'm saying None of the other stuff matters. Not the Coaching, the coordinators, the owners, the Draft picks, the free agent signings, the overpaid 9 million dollar contracts.

The only thing that matters in today's game. Is the most highest card in the deck.

Nothing overtrumps bad quarterback play.

You can't fix it by getting Shelton and cutting Phil Taylor
You can't fix it by hoping Robert Turbin will heal up and be a beast.
You can't fix it by bringing in a super kicker from the 9ers.
You Can't even have fixed it if you had drafted someone like Amari Cooper instead of Xavier Cooper.

because Nothing overtrumps bad quarterbadk play. And it's nothing against Josh McCown, who might fix it all by next Sunday.

But if your quarterback plays like he's the only one in a rainstorm, then it's just like a pitcher in baseball who can't throw anything but high fastballs up the middle, You're going to lose and lose bad.

Nothing over trumps bad quarterback play. Not turnovers, pass rush, or muffed punts, blocked kicks, or field position.

Nothing over trumps bad quarterback play.

Many are saying how Shelton was a great draft selection. I always believed that first round draft picks, particularly high first round, are supposed to be difference makers. How is Shelton making a difference? The run defense is as bad as last year and the pass rush even worse. To me, he has been virtually useless.

Is "Dilbert" still on the team?

This was "Text's" first pick in his pathetic tenure.

He's on the team. Don't think he has been active yet.

Hard to fathom, isn't it?

He was active today. He just didn't play defense. We went with Poyer, Desir and then Bademosi before him.

And people rip on Mingo and Whit over him?

Wonder why?

People were hoping for another Haloti Ngata. He doesn't look like that so far, but it's only been 3 games.

He's one of those players you'll appreciate once you get better players around him. A true pass rushing DE, and smarter/better linebackers.

I don't have a problem with the choice of him, but I certainly do with Erving, considering we lack playmakers on offense. As I said that night, if Erving was more of a "best player available" philosophy pick, that's a god sign. You just get no payoff this year for it.

Bademosi is a ST stud. Flat out stud. He is, however, an absolutely atrocious DB.

The fact that we are willing to play him over Gilbert is about the most damning thing you can say to a player. Justin has to be about 2 steps from getting cut at this point IMO. Maybe he took Pryor's spot as Mr. 53.

Yeah it was pretty clear that K'Wan Williams who was out today, was missed in that nickel position.

Really sucks that he has multiple concussions already in his young career.

The problem with firing people is what respectable coach or gm would come here? This team is a mess. No one that has a clue is going to touch this organization. We're stuck with first time coaches/gm's that want a shot. Those usually don't work out.

We used Kirksey to cover a wide receiver, man to man, in the redzone over Gilbert today.

Yeah I rip on Mingo. By all means explain how the 6th overall pick in the draft is such a force for us. How he's an elite PASS RUSHER. How he's a force in the run game. Better yet explain to me why he's even on the field. I heard his name twice today. Once running in to the kicker for a big penalty. Once getting carried in to the endzone for a Raider TD. Impressive. He's really going to make us forget Lawrence Taylor. Mingo is a bust. You take a linebacker at 6 he better be more than a situational cover guy. I know you love the guy for some strange reason, but if he were to leave tomorrow I wouldn't miss him one bit. He can take Dilbert and Meathead along with him....

You find the right guy, a GM that has shown he is capable and throw money at him. A lot of it. You find a HC that has won in the past but isn't too far over the hill and you throw money at him. If Haslam REALLY wanted Cowher? 15 million a year ought to do it. Personally, I would LOVE to see Brian Billick get the HC job. He had the Ravens playing good football for a very long time. Has a ring.... And you'd probably get him cheap. You could probably get Gruden out of the announcer box for 12+ million. Yes, it is a lot harder to get good front office talent here. But it's not impossible. There is no cap limit on front office/coaching staff.

I want what y'all are smoking!

First - Shelton is a rookie and a beast. Leave him alone.
Second - I agree that Mingo was selected way too high.
Third - I also don't understand the continuation of the Gilbert and Bowe experiments.
Fourth - Spirit who is Meathead... no idea who you are talking about with the cutesy man-crush nicknames.
Fifth - Can we all take a step back from the ledge? Been a fan my whole life and understand the constant pain and sorrow... We had a complete team loss today, period. Firing the GM, the HC, this player or that player won't change the fact that we have sucked so long.

So let's all take a deep breath and give Pettine (who I still believe in) a chance to fix things. 5 years. 5 years. 5 years. These coordinators, the GM and HC need to figure this thing out. We are going the right direction, we have and will make mistakes but that doesn't change the fact that we are going the right direction.

If JFF played today, I think we would have won. I absolutely understand why Pettine did not play him. But I noticed when the D had a chance to catch their breath they played much better. When the O got pissed, the went balls out to not be embarrassed... THAT IS PROGRESS!

I never expected us to set the world on fire this year, as a matter of fact when you look at our schedule, none of us did. Let them gel and refine this YOUNG team. Let them have time to swap out players as needed, correct mistakes and grow a little. Every loss is not the end of the world.

Game wasn't on TV here so I listened to it on the radio. When it got to the half I realized it sounded like the team did not feel like playing, so I decided I did not feel like listening. I had better things to do, so I did them.

They sounded pathetic. Missed tackles, no running game, can't stop the other team on 3rd down. Stupid penalties. Someone watching Haden v Cooper without knowing who they were would most likely guess Joe was the rookie.

I found out later that we had a chance to tie the game at the end. Then I figured I would hear about how we battled and almost won. A chance to tie, especially with our weapons, is not almost winning. Almost winning is another way to say we lost. And saying we battled also means we lost. Winners win, they don't battle.

We are a bad, bad team and that's they way it will be this year. If McCown is our best chance at winning then we can pack it in this year, because Oakland at home might have been the best shot we had at a win for the rest of the year. If McCown is our best chance at winning then Johnny is as bad as I feared.

Wasn't too long ago Oakland was seen as a joke. They draft Mack, who we passed on. Then when they decide to draft a QB they do not reach for one, and take the best one left on the board. They did not feel the need to show the rest of league that they were smarter than everyone else and take a huge gamble on a QB.

We have done some nice moves acquring extra 1st round picks. But that is like giving a Gulfstream to a monkey. It's a great thing to have but he has no clue what to do with it.

yeah I'll give Oakland credit, drafting Mack and Carr and Cooper seems to have given them a bright future

I woke up this morning to use the bathroom, got back in bed, and then remembered our game yesterday and bummed out.

It was a rough game. It pretty much went how I thought it would, but I didn't think our D would be that lame.

We don't deserve this crap year in and year out, but unfortunately it's what we get, all-too often, almost every Sunday afternoon.

Even the two games right after ours sucked.

I would love to have a coach that gets red in the face and the spit starts flying on the sideline when players screw up. Pettin is starting to remind me of Crennel and Shurmur, zero emotion like he could care less if we win or lose. Gruden seems to have a mancrush on Manziel I bet he would at least be curious. I would love any of the guys you named one condition though Haslam better have one of the locked up before he gives Pet the boot, don't want to settle for a bum again.

Just watched this on NFL game pass. Figured I'd watch the condensed version given the insipid effort I'd read about. Downside is you probably miss a few things but the pain doesn't last as long.

Running game just didn't get off the ground. Tackling. Man, where are the basics. Too many just looking to hit and not wrap up on first contact. Haden did not cover himself in glory. He was abused by the rook who is clearly gifted. Where was the help? That match up just was not countered.
McCown was all over the shop. His arm was just scattering all over the place, behind, overthrown, under thrown.

I think we should go Manziel. But we won't.

Should have got game pass for the Ravens instead. At least I'd enjoy the games

I actually though Pettine WOULD be that emotional/rigid coach when he was first hired. He's from Rex Ryan's coaching staff and he seemed like a hard a$$ ... but he's definitely not what I thought in that regard

We are a worse team this year than last. I thought the goal was to get better? Move forward?

The facts are, there is just too much wrong with this team and in so many different aspects.

I would have thought we're better with McCown, but now, I'm for Johnny. I could see him getting away from the rush way better.

They aren't going to go back to him yet I don't think.

The Raiders are certainly trending the right direction. KMack is an absolute STUD. I remember watching him cause havoc against OSU when he was in college. Another swing and a miss by our FO in passing on drafting him.

I found myself being extra critical of McCown during the game. Every 3-n-out or every missed pass, I was disgusted because I do want to see JM play. However, I gotta give credit where credit is due...he brought the team back and didn't give up. Of course, to end the game on an INT near the goal line is what you get with him. It is what it is. I don't know if JM would have played any better or worse.

Travis Benjamin should have had 3 TDs. His ability to get behind the defense is a thing of beauty to watch.

Our defense is downright embarrassing.

Didn't see the game. All I have to do is look at the yards given up by our embarrassing defence and I know what I need to know.

I kinda felt playing the veteran was also the best decision, but... when your veteran plays like he did I mean gzzz. I mean people rip, and rightfully so, JF coughing up the ball but Josh did as well and then you include the many plays McCown left on the field, many touchdown plays more than likely, I don't see how anyone could support Josh.

It's hard to shake the syndrome when you are still being beaten...

j/c:

We got next to zero pressure against Carr yesterday. Disgusting.

I can't even see I've been hit in the face so much

And he's me... "oh I think we'll get consistent pressure with just four", man how freaking stupid am I I feel for saying, and believing, that.

He looked as comfortable as my cat in his favorite blanket after a full meal.

53 seasons here.

53.

And i agree. Play the "new" Manziel. Cant be worse than this.

You can't be beaten if you walk away. The hard part for most Browns fans is they can't walk away. I have no idea why...

Finally did it. Al Browns items removed from my car, Browns attire packed away, things around my home removed. Now all I need to do is address the void in my Sunday for the next 12 weeks.

My 14 year old son finds this Browns debacle amusing and I guess I do now as well.

Insanity: doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. Not for me anymore!

Go Browns! I think..............

Riddler, i am not a Manziel fan; argued heatedly not to draft him, didn't think his college skills would translate well into the NFL, where the guys are faster, smarter, and well-prepared (mostly- even though i think we have been unprepared 2x now) BUT nobody is going give up a 5 star QB now, have to wait for the draft, and clearly Josh is not the guy, so we should fish or cut bait with Johnny. He fails and we move on, or he's just good enough to win or better.

Clearly he wants to win this year, and at least he is exciting and has a decent arm.

Remember Brian Sipe? I couldn't wait to see him every week.

My one friend, generally he avoids the "we suck" and "we need to fire..." and countless other negative conversations and has for the most part, texted me this morning asking if I knew anyone who wants to buy his season tickets.

I was flabbergasted, but I get the sense he's done doing anything but maybe watching them on Sundays on TV. He said the raised tickets prices for even less a quality product is quote "a jip". This guy was as die hard fan as they come.

I completely understand. Its not the losing but a genuine lack of effort and desire to play the game that is so depressing. I dont care if i watch another game this year, thats how I feel about this team. They can blow this mess all to hell.

That's my biggest issue with everything as well Mourg.

The fact that Pettine thinks the team is prepared and motivated is disturbing on many levels as well.

People hate when I say this, but I wouldn't even mind if they moved the team again.

I would focus on fantasy football and just general watching. I think I would enjoy my Sundays and the week that follows a lot better.

This entire team is a fraud.


The defense is a complete joke, and the offense is even worse.
For as much individual talent as is on our OLine, they play terribly as a whole.... so, yeah, we have Joe Thomas, Mack, Bitonio, etc... but it is strue: Our OLine sucks.

I no longer see any reason or justification for keeping Manziel on the bench. At this point, he no longer has anything to learn from McCown.

I see no reason or justification for either coordinator to remain employed this morning, and Pett & Farmer should be freaking EMBARRASSED and ashamed to show their faces after what they've put out there. Seriously disgraceful.

j/c:

Can anyone confirm if Paul Kruger was on the field at all yesterday?

Obviously they need to compartmentalize this game.





We're at the point where not much matters with this team anymore. We've been here before.

Good for you! Becoming a closet Browns fan is the best. Hide everything Browns you own, try not to talk about them outside of social media, and most importantly don't spend another dime on this crap! Nothing vested nothing lost!

I haven't spent a dime on the Browns in a few years. Yes, I still watch them religiously and post on DT ... but I don't spend anything (outside of my damned free time)

the vets will have a meeting and say they want mccown

I'm more than just a little sick of reading how you can't blame McCown because we couldn't run the ball..

In the first half, Carr converted a
3rd and 12
1st and 20
2nd and 15
2nd and 15
3rd and 9


And before our late FG drive, in 3 possessions we had converted 1 first down through the air.. 1. In order to sustain a running game, sometimes the QB has to pick up first down and keep the offense on the field to run.... and keep running. They talk about how many rushing yards we gave up.. at halftime the Raiders had about 30 yards on 13 carries, but they were able to sustain drives because they could complete passes... this allowed them to keep running and eventually they broke a couple long ones...

We failed to convert first downs, failed to stay on the field, failed to score, fell behind, and had to abandon the run... hard to break long runs when you are in a position where you have stopped trying to run the ball.

Other teams make it look so easy, indefensible, to run a man across the middle for quick hit 5-6 yard pass and a first down.

And you'd assume with all our slot like, speedy and shifty type WRs we have, we'd be to tear those kinda plays up too at will.

Other teams get to try these plays against our defense.
We have to do it against theirs.

I simply look at the plan this coaching staff had, or at least what they told us going into the season.

Run the ball.

Minimize the QB position.

Strong secondary.

Stop the run.

None of these things have materialized. Reading this entire thread, I wonder how many fans are actually focusing on where the real problem lies?

So you're saying that we lost because I forgot to wear my lucky Browns socks?

Well, that may have been a part of it. lol

What I'm saying is two parts.

1. I'm quite sure at the very least, going into the draft plans these past two seasons, that Pettine made it clear to Farmer what he wanted to do. What his plan was. And that it's Farmers job to get those players. It's not working.

2. Pettine sees this team in training camp and pre season. As a HC, he should know the strengths and weaknesses of this team. As such, your plan should revolve around the talent you have on your roster and its strong suits. That's what his plan was based on. It's not working.

Sure the players have to execute the plays. But when your OL can't run block and your defense can't stop the run. When you say you want to run the ball and minimize the QB position, then throw the ball almost 50 times, you are refusing to even follow the plan you claim to be the blue print in game three of the season.

Seems like there's really not much of a plan. I mean can anybody really be surprised by the outcome when McCown throws the ball 49 times?

They materialized in week 2 when we won, well all except stopping the run, and even that can be argued was largely the result of a couple big plays.

Problem is that we aren't good enough at the moment to impose that kind of will on most NFL teams. The staff might WANT to do it, but when it isn't working, you have to try something else... And if you are going to win that way, then you need a very consistent steady QB who can throw for a high % on those 5 and 6 yard plays to keep the chains moving and you need to minimize the mistakes (penalties, turnovers, etc.)...

Yet, Shanny stuck w/the run. He still is and Atlanta's offense is taking off, despite having one of the worst offensive lines in football.

You are not allowed to speak of that. He isn't here so it doesn't matter now. Didn't you get the memo?

After three games we are dead last in run defense....again.

Incidentally the Packers are 31st but at least they have an offense to make up for it.

We play timid, and that obviously doesn't work in football. We have a tendency to let the other team be the aggressors on both sides of the ball. Pettine needs to find a way for the team to get its swagger back and dictate the action. We seem to have too many players on the team who are resigned to losing rather than guys that hate it. I'm not sure how you fix that. We could try blowing things up yet again, but I'm pretty sure the evidence suggests that that doesn't work. We might need to hire an army of sports psychologists. I like Pettine, but I'm not sure he has the chops as a motivator. I'm fine with the scheme and the personnel, for the most part, but they're just playing like a listless bunch of ninnies who should be put on suicide watch. Us against the world, the disrespect card, I dunno what, Pettine needs to find a way to get these guys playing fast, angry, and physical.

Group therapy

Their swagger back? Swagger is at every game!

our MVP so far.

Ya gotta admit, he battles!

He definitely plays like a Brown. He chases his tail, rolls over, plays dead, etc.

Does he crap on the field like the Browns do too? LOL

Trying to block Khalil Mack with Malcolm Johnson was probably a bad idea. Mitchell Schwartz didn't fare much better.

https://twitter.com/PFF/status/648960987245211648

Even he wants out of Cleveland!

I rewatched a little bit of the game, and also saw a few all-22 shots from Dustin Fox on twitter (he usually posts pretty good stuff a few days after the game)

It's amazing how many simple mistakes the team made. Crow hitting the wrong hole T-Rich stye on the 3rd & goal play, a simple checkdown to Duke Johnson on the game ending pick. I said it on Sunday after the game, but McCown missed a simple inside slant that would've gotten us a first down. So much little stuff that added up to a 3 score defecit and eventual loss. Mental errors are killing this team as much as the entire lack of talent debate.

The penalties. The dumb plays. I think the thing that infuriates me the most is that our running on first down is just so bad. It just screws the rest of the possession up. I told my cousin after the game that for us, that roughing the punter is a play that gets made by everyone. I mean it happens often. For us though? It's crushing. The Packers or Pats have that happen, and they've probably forgotten about it by the end of the game. Our margin for error is so small. It's almost as if they don't want to believe that. They truly think they're better than they are, and that is mind blowing.

The Browns have to be running 75 percent on first down. Tendancies are spotted and figured out, and the other team knows it.

PAP, Screens, High percentage completions, forget about it... Just run the ball into a brick wall.

That is a very good point.

I don't know the stats, but 75% sounds about right...

What scares me about Johnny, and I'm part of the crew that likes Johnny, is that 2 of his 3 touchdown drives started with really good field positon created by the defense. First one at the 50 (2 play drive with the bomb to Benji) and the other at the 38 (which was still a wonderful drive that gets overlooked and forgotten because it didn't end with a big play).

Shoot, his TD at NY started at the 45. Outside of those drives and one other where he missed a wide open guy in the end zone and we settled for 3, there has been nothing. Poor drives that end up 3 and out, and obviously late in the NY game, bad turnovers. He still has a long way to go. Still so impressed with that final drive against the Titans.

The last drive on Sunday against the Raiders featured some really nice catches by the way. Good throws and catches that would have beaten any defense. Sad that it ended the way it did.

By my count:

30 first down plays

8 run plays on those 30 first down plays

I post this link because it is the best recap I know of on the internet (or anywhere else):

http://www.dawgsbynature.com/2015/9/30/9...loss-to-raiders

A couple points from it:

Crowell lacks vision in a Trent Richardson sort of way:



Third and goal play:



Hole open up the middle. Chooses to bounce it outside.

I remember asking why Dray was blocking Mack one on one in the gameday thread, visual proof. So dumb:



When you can't run, nobody cares about playaction. When watching the game I thought this play was set up perfectly, except for the free rusher running right at McCown:







Whitner's first job when he is in the box is to stop the run, not rush the passer:



This play was a 55 yard gain, both of our safeties whiffed on the tackle:



Benjamin wide open for a 99 yard TD (underthrown):



Johnson wide open on McCown's last pass for an INT:

That was depressing. Does Bowe at least dress like a Brown this week.

These losses would upset me if I wasn't so smitten by the spiffy new unis. Now THAT is game timing spent well!

Dress like a Brown! Go unis!

I'm pretty sure Crow was supposed to follow the fullback on the goal line play, not cut it inside.

That last play is so disappointing. McCown was trying to be the hero. He was trying to get Flip to say "coaching is overrated". Manziel would have been ripped apart for this. Many people would have used that play to say he wasn't ready. Gunslinger. Doesn't recognize coverages. Btw, Pett says Barnidge was open on that play but I don't see him. And who the heck is the Raider defender at the top covering?

Our running backs are smart enough to not follow our fullback lol... if you can even call Johnson a fullback.

The arrow is showing where he went, not where he should have gone. He cut it back when he didn't have to. It should have been an easy one yard game.

Oh, gotcha. I thought it was pointing out the hole.

I miss Owen Marecic.

Django was ripping Manziel apart for completing a 50 yard TD pass.. yea, people would have had a field day if Manziel did that.


A few posts above yours, Barnidge is standing on the 30 all by himself, need to get to the 20 for a first down. You can see the corner leaving Benji to go cover Barnidge and turning Benji over to the safety because he realized Barnidge was (or should have been) the target for an easy first down.

I thought that was Johnson.

Where's Johnson?

Oh, my bad.. maybe that is Johnson, which makes it worse because put the ball in his hands with that much green in front of him and he'd do more damage than Barnidge. He'd be one broken tackle away from a touchdown.