When Beyoncé took to the field during the Super Bowl 50 halftime show, she apparently had a political message to convey.
Clad in a black leotard with a gold embellished jacket, Beyoncé was flanked by dancers who sported afros and black berets, reportedly in reference to the Black Panther Party. Beyoncé’s outfit was also a nod to Michael Jackson.
At one point during the performance the backup dancers and Beyoncé gave a salute, and they later formed an X formation, which the Twitterverse was quick to declare was a reference to Malcom X.
This year marks the 50th anniversary of the Black Panther Party.
Many praised Beyonce for her bold statements during the performance. More on this...
Beyonce signed up for Super Bowl
And if there was any doubt that Beyoncé’s performance was politically-charged, her dancers were also filmed in a video that was posted on the Black Lives Matter Twitter page shortly after the halftime show.
In the clip, the dancers hold up a sign that reads “Justice 4 Mario Woods.”
Woods was shot and killed in San Francisco by police officers on the afternoon of Dec. 2 after he refused commands to drop an 8-inch knife he was carrying.
Agree Arps. She was pathetic. Too bad her effort wasn't spent improving her performance for this major audience. Guess she had another agenda. This is really funny!!
It wasn't pathetic, people just don't like the message.
the performance was amazing, the choreography was on point.
people would say something completely different if she wasn't paying homage to the black panther party of the 1960's.
cause fighting for equal rights is a horrible message, apparently.
Absolutely false. We did not even realize her message as it was happening and everybody was commenting on how bad she was. Sorry! Opinions vary here. Got to respect that.
Why would the NFL hire her to pay homage to the black panthers for a Super Bowl Halftime show?
one: they didn't pay her for anything specific. the idea most likely came from the Artist themselves or their managers.
two: they got beyonce because she is literally the most popular female artist on the planet. the only close rival she might have right now is Adele.
three: as i said in my first post. who cares? it isn't offensive, and there's nothing racist about it, especially when people actually know the history behind it.
as long as it isn't anything offensive, the nfl isn't gonna care. and guess what? all you're doing is filling her and the nfl pockets by complaining about it. giving her more publicity.
look, i don't like beyonce. i personally don't like her music. my wife does though, and so does ton of other women and hell, even guys.
but nothing she did was offensive. nothing she did was racist.
people would say something completely different if she wasn't paying homage to the black panther party of the 1960's.
You are correct. If she chose to pay homage to a cause that was not responsible for multiple murders and more recently accused of voter intimidation, it would probably not be nearly as big of a deal.
Names, plaques, statues are being removed all over the country of names of otherwise good people simply because they supported segregation, at the time, in a non-violent way.. those folks are not allowed to be recognized even though the good they did in their lives far outweighed their political views...
So yea, when you use a platform like the super bowl halftime to pay homage to the black panthers, expect a response.
Sorry swish, you don't get to tell other people what is and is not offensive to them.
Black Panthers are a part of our history, people should understand the role they played during a difficult time in that history.. the good and the bad should be openly discussed... but let's not pretend that they are without controversy, that they were some squeaky clean group protesting for social justice... in short, let's not pretend they were just an extension of MLK.. this group was surrounded by drugs and violence and questionable tactics.
she was referencing the 1960's black panther party. which isn't at all racist.
i could see if she was paying homage to the new black panther party. as even i have beef with them.
for the uninformed, they aren't the same group. if you choose to still believe that, then that's your right, but don't be mad when i correct people.
The KKK of the 60's is not the same KKK of today so if a group came out in KKK robes and hoods at the next Super Bowl halftime paying homage to the KKK you would be OK with it?
On top of that, Vambo, y'all throw racist around like candy.
Racist means somebody thinkI their race is superior to others.
The black panther party of the 60's didn't think that.
The KKK has always thought that.
Now, if it was a bunch of white nationalist up there, then while it would be a bit uncomfortable, white nationalist aren't racist, they just feel that they want to preserve the white race by staying within their own, but they still coexist with people.
So you can make a comparison with the black panthers to white nationalist. Neither is racist.
And while sometimes the KKK and white nationalist intertwine, they aren't the same. Y'all need some history lessons.
The kkk has and always is racist. That isn't even remotely the same. You're severely reaching.
Black Panthers have always been racist exact same thing.
?You are grasping at straw and sinking fast.
This comment shows you know nothing of why the black panthers existed in the first place. Jeez, I don't understand how the uninformed can make arguments like this. Read up on them, then get back at me.
The black panther party of the 60's didn't think that.
So you were there to witness this first hand? Do you live through the 60's?
What does that matter?
Did you live when Jesus was alive?
Were you there personally durin the holocaust?
We're you in Japan when the US dropped the bomb?
Come on bro.
Nope, but you can't tell me for a fact the EVERY member of the Black Panthers of the 60's was not racist in the least little bit. If they were not why the BLACK in the name why not just PANTHERS.
just like you can't tell me that everybody in the republican party is straight.
just like you can't tell me that every politician is a slim ball.
just like you can't tell me that all chicken taste the same.
are you a yoga instructor? you go some serious reach from those stretches.
You made the statement the Black Panthers of the 60's were not racist I made no claim to any of the groups you listed you are trying to deflect the issue and failing.
You can't make that statement for a fact but you can say you believe it to be true, which doesn't make it factual.
Beyoncé references Black Panther Party at Super Bowl halftime show
And 99.9% of those that watched had no idea until 2 days later when it is pointed out to them.
Gimme a break with this outraged crowd in here. I forgot how bad it was since I've avoided the Everything Else section for years now. It's like Cheech (I'll give you one guess) showing up at a conservative retirement home to argue about political/social issues.
Might as well start talking about Beyonce's SHOCKING new music video while we're at it. OUTRAGEOUS. SHOOOOOCCKING, I tell's ya! Gimme a break.
Beyoncé references Black Panther Party at Super Bowl halftime show
And 99.9% of those that watched had no idea until 2 days later when it is pointed out to them.
Gimme a break with this outraged crowd in here. I forgot how bad it was since I've avoided the Everything Else section for years now. It's like Cheech (I'll give you one guess) showing up at a conservative retirement home to argue about political/social issues.
Might as well start talking about Beyonce's SHOCKING new music video while we're at it. OUTRAGEOUS. SHOOOOOCCKING, I tell's ya! Gimme a break.
So don't open the thread and post in it there your problem solved!
you seem to be stuck thinking what beyonce did was super wrong and racist.
Yes, yes it was wrong was not the time or place for political agenda of any kind.
if there's no rule saying it's not, then what?
all you can do is be mad and act outrage. if you're so pissed off, make a petition, and get the signatures needed to ban political stuff from the SB halftime.
if you're not gonna take action, then have fun losing hair over nothing.
Nope, but you can't tell me for a fact the EVERY member of the Black Panthers of the 60's was not racist in the least little bit. If they were not why the BLACK in the name why not just PANTHERS.
Geez, probably because they were already segregated way before the political party was started. You're looking at an already segregated group, due to the racist policies of the United States pre-60's, which includes, but is not limited to: Slavery, Segregation, Jim Crow Laws, Blockbusting and other acts of Housing Discrimination. However, they weren't even racist(!) They worked with many other minority groups, including White Appalachians, and other white majority groups, including The Weathermen.
I think a better question is: Why were there no groups, ran by or alongside, white people, that emphasized community empowerment and support (The Black Panthers created free clinic programs, one of the first orgs to do it after The Brown Berets, the Hispanic org. They also did free breakfasts and dinners for their communities. Feeding many people who would have starved otherwise), the self defense of African Americans (Not everyone thought getting stomped on by KKK members was a good idea), and a reformation of our justice system (Something that's still being debated about today)? Is it because they're racist?
Of course not. Neither were the Panthers. Can we stop labeling everything as racist now?
you seem to be stuck thinking what beyonce did was super wrong and racist.
Yes, yes it was wrong was not the time or place for political agenda of any kind.
if there's no rule saying it's not, then what?
all you can do is be mad and act outrage. if you're so pissed off, make a petition, and get the signatures needed to ban political stuff from the SB halftime.
if you're not gonna take action, then have fun losing hair over nothing.
Ahh I see so as long as there is no rule saying don't do it right or WRONG, it's OK to do got it. For someone who breaks the RULES by smoking pot you sure are a stickler for the rules.
I'm not mad I don't think it was right to do but in the end she made herself look foolish.
At one point in time there was no RULE about owning slaves either but we all know how wrong people were to do that...common sense.
I'm willing to put money on this. When she was the Headliner one of her associate singers flipped the bird to the camera. She was still invited this. This is pretty minor and the NFL is desperately trying to reach out to women. The best way to do that is Bey. She's unstoppable. She'll probably be Bill Gates when she's 80.
Beyoncé references Black Panther Party at Super Bowl halftime show
And 99.9% of those that watched had no idea until 2 days later when it is pointed out to them.
Gimme a break with this outraged crowd in here. I forgot how bad it was since I've avoided the Everything Else section for years now. It's like Cheech (I'll give you one guess) showing up at a conservative retirement home to argue about political/social issues.
Might as well start talking about Beyonce's SHOCKING new music video while we're at it. OUTRAGEOUS. SHOOOOOCCKING, I tell's ya! Gimme a break.
So don't open the thread and post in it there your problem solved!
Sorry. Just thrown off seeing this nonsense in the NFL Post-Season section. If I sniff anymore hot topics like Beyonce, Janet's Boob, or what Katie Perry wore, I'll be sure to steer clear.
We all know that all whites are racists and trying to hold down the black man and that all blacks are not racist and are just trying to be treated fairly.
It really is that simple. As clear as black and white.
Gotta admit I had no idea who she was when she came out... Thought she was lil Kim or someone... Personally thought she was awful but I don't typically care for halftime show in general
Had no idea she was paying homage to black panthers... Didn't find it racist when I watched it and still think it's overblown... If it was a political stunt then she got what she wanted because everyone is talking about it
The one thing that would have made this halftime show totally epic is if Beyonce had come up one side of the stage with her wannabe black panther dancers while Kid Rock was coming up the stairs on the other side of the stage in his confederate flag jacket... I would have paid money to see that.
This thread is hysterical. People can't possibly be truly offended by a SB halftime show, can they? Beyonce, offensive?. God bless message boards for their entertainment value!
This thread is hysterical. People can't possibly be truly offended by a SB halftime show, can they? Beyonce, offensive?. God bless message boards for their entertainment value!
This thread is hysterical. People can't possibly be truly offended by a SB halftime show, can they? Beyonce, offensive?. God bless message boards for their entertainment value!
If people try hard enough they can find something to be offended about everywhere
This thread is hysterical. People can't possibly be truly offended by a SB halftime show, can they? Beyonce, offensive?. God bless message boards for their entertainment value!
If people try hard enough they can find something to be offended about everywhere
And to think the outrage over the Rebel flag was 100 times worse.
Being pro black means fighting to be treated as equals, not to be better than anybody. Pro black means uplifting yourself after society treaties you as second rate.
We aren't trying to be isolated. We're trying to be equal. That's all.
Once you guys understand the concept, the situation makes more sense.
If you refuse to want to understand the idea, well, that's your right, and I dunno what else to do except say I tried.
It's not a major contradiction. You just don't wanna hear what I have to say.
I love everybody from every race, from every culture. I also understand that certain races are treated worse than others, and that certain races are fighting to just be on equal grounds with others.
You are pro people. That's awesome, and I get that, but it seems you and Vambo don't understand the oyher dynamics that go into that.
But I'm going to bow out of this thread. It's clear that we aren't allowed to try and uplift black people in this country to become better integrated into society.
I, swish, apologize to the board for wanting equal rights and treatment under the law. I should have known my place, and just accepted that you guys hate beyonce so postive message. I'm sorry. It won't happen again guys.
As Nigel Powers said in Goldmember: There's only two things I hate in this world. People who are intolerant of other people's cultures ... and the Dutch.
Perhaps it is you who doesn't want to hear what others have to say?
And speaking of contradictions........the message that Beyonce was supposedly conveying is completely opposite to her demanding and receiving a police escort to the game.
Another phony hypocrite that feeds off the system and then complains.
Well you are insinuating that Swish doesn't want to uplift "ALL" people in this country. He never said. It's almost like you're trying to stir the pot. But hey, race baters gotta live too I guess.
Well you are insinuating that Swish doesn't want to uplift "ALL" people in this country.
Here is his direct quote..."It's clear that we aren't allowed to try and uplift black people in this country to become better integrated into society. "
Where is my insinuating that Swish doesn't want to uplift "ALL" people in this country? His words.
My question was why did he use the term BLACK instead of ALL?
Using the term Black isolates other races just the opposite of what he said he wanted to do.
We aren't trying to be isolated. We're trying to be equal. That's all.
Once you guys understand the concept, the situation makes more sense.
Well explain then why everything has to have BLACK prefix
Black Panthers, Black History, Black Channel, Black Pride or having to be African American instead of just Americans?
Seems that isolates rather than trying to be equal.
When I walk into a room, you don't see a man, you see a black man and then all of your bias, stereotypes, assumptions go into a affect.
And, if I walk into a room, you don't see a man, you see a white man, and then all of YOUR biases, stereotypes and assumptions go into affect.
The best thing to do is not have those.
If you and I met, let's face it: The absolute first thing EITHER of us would notice is the color of the others skin. That's not a problem. What we DO with that is what matters.
We aren't trying to be isolated. We're trying to be equal. That's all.
Once you guys understand the concept, the situation makes more sense.
Well explain then why everything has to have BLACK prefix
Black Panthers, Black History, Black Channel, Black Pride or having to be African American instead of just Americans?
Seems that isolates rather than trying to be equal.
When I walk into a room, you don't see a man, you see a black man and then all of your bias, stereotypes, assumptions go into a affect.
And, if I walk into a room, you don't see a man, you see a white man, and then all of YOUR biases, stereotypes and assumptions go into affect.
The best thing to do is not have those.
If you and I met, let's face it: The absolute first thing EITHER of us would notice is the color of the others skin. That's not a problem. What we DO with that is what matters.
I whole heartily agree, there is nothing wrong with noticing each other skin colors its how we act after we meet.
Here is the wrinkle, If you walk in to a group of white people they see you as a man, if I walk into a group of black man they see me a man. Why? Because the color barrier does not matter, there is no difference between people of the same skin color so our bias, stereotypes, assumptions are redirecting to something else like; "what type of clothes are they wearing".
So back to my original statement, when I walk into a room the first thing you notice is that I am different from you. People are scared of the different people.
We aren't trying to be isolated. We're trying to be equal. That's all.
Once you guys understand the concept, the situation makes more sense.
Well explain then why everything has to have BLACK prefix
Black Panthers, Black History, Black Channel, Black Pride or having to be African American instead of just Americans?
Seems that isolates rather than trying to be equal.
When I walk into a room, you don't see a man, you see a black man and then all of your bias, stereotypes, assumptions go into a affect.
And, if I walk into a room, you don't see a man, you see a white man, and then all of YOUR biases, stereotypes and assumptions go into affect.
The best thing to do is not have those.
If you and I met, let's face it: The absolute first thing EITHER of us would notice is the color of the others skin. That's not a problem. What we DO with that is what matters.
I whole heartily agree, there is nothing wrong with noticing each other skin colors its how we act after we meet.
Here is the wrinkle, If you walk in to a group of white people they see you as a man, if I walk into a group of black man they see me a man. Why? Because the color barrier does not matter, there is no difference between people of the same skin color so our bias, stereotypes, assumptions are redirecting to something else like; "what type of clothes are they wearing".
So back to my original statement, when I walk into a room the first thing you notice is that I am different from you. People are scared of the different people.
Are you scared of Asians? Latinos? Women? They are different.
As a minority I understand the other minorities plight.. Also those minorities are not in the position, politicly, and/or have the the power to make it harder for other minorities.
As a minority I understand the other minorities plight.. Also those minorities are not in the position, politicly, and/or have the the power to make it harder for other minorities.
Like being President of the United States?
Darn my education I didn't know the President had the power to make any thing he wants happen. Who cares about the congress or senate. Darn Columbus Public Schools!
I'm black, so I don't know all the plights of other minorities.
But just a few posts up, you said you did understand.
Quote:
Slavery has affected my fore-fathers more then any other minority in America.
Pre-Civil Rights has affected my grandparents/parents more then any other minority in America.
(those to items really affected who I am today)
Laws, policies and other bad things (education, jobs,real estate) that affect black minorities, more so then other minorities
Thanks for your reply.
You really think "laws, policies, and education" affect blacks more than than Hispanics, Asians? Heck, as for education and laws, whites deal with the same thing. And there are laws about policies - whether you think they are carried out equally is a different story, I get that.
I'm black, so I don't know all the plights of other minorities.
Slavery has affected my fore-fathers more then any other minority in America.
"One of the most vexing questions in African-American history is whether free African Americans themselves owned slaves. The short answer to this question, as you might suspect, is yes, of course; some free black people in this country bought and sold other black people, and did so at least since 1654, continuing to do so right through the Civil War."
You really think "laws, policies, and education" affect blacks more than than Hispanics, Asians? Heck, as for education and laws, whites deal with the same thing. And there are laws about policies - whether you think they are carried out equally is a different story, I get that.
War on drugs really put many black and Latinos in jail. Jails are privatized which means the more people who go to jail, will make money for corporation. Data says that poor people go to jail at pretty much the same rate no matter what race, however there are more blacks and Latinos who are in poverty which means more of them go to jail.
Education is linked to high paying jobs, data proves that kids in poverty won't perform well in school. So these kids will not have the same education opportunity then others. More Black and Latinos are in poverty which means they have less opportunity to get a high paying job.
I have provided links for all of these issues in the past to support this argument.
A list of minorities does not mean that all of those minorities are current elected officials which means this is completely irrelevant to the discussion.
Currently in 2015 there are 46 black congressmen(roughly 10%) out of 435 total congressmen. So collectively politically they have no power on their own.
Quote:
Overall, non-whites (including blacks, Hispanics, Asian/Pacific Islanders and Native Americans) make up 17% of the new Congress, but that is below these groups’ 38% share of the nation’s population
Quote:
But despite these non-white gains, whites account for 83% of the new Congress but just 62% of the population.
So these kids will not have the same education opportunity then others.
That is as far from the truth as possible!
Look..........I don't wanna get into this race war y'all have going on, but you are dead wrong about that. The opposite is true. I taught in all types of schools and the Title One schools get TONS MORE MONEY THAN OTHER SCHOOLS. IT IS NOT EVEN CLOSE!!!!
BTW: It is "than," not "then." Then addresses time rather than a comparison.
So these kids will not have the same education opportunity then others.
That is as far from the truth as possible!
Look..........I don't wanna get into this race war y'all have going on, but you are dead wrong about that. The opposite is true. I taught in all types of schools and the Title One schools get TONS MORE MONEY THAN OTHER SCHOOLS. IT IS NOT EVEN CLOSE!!!!
BTW: It is "than," not "then." Then addresses time rather than a comparison.
Money to the school doesn't solve education problems. If kids go to sleep hungry or are babysitting their siblings because their parents work 2 jobs than they will not do well in school. Those are the facts.
No race war here, I step out from the shadows to inform when there is too much nonsense and misinformation going on.
There are a lot of facts, Lurker. I've lived it. I've seen it. I have tried to be part of the solution. I just do not like when misinformation is presented.
There are a lot of facts, Lurker. I've lived it. I've seen it. I have tried to be part of the solution. I just do not like when misinformation is presented.
Here are some facts, please let me know what you think, especially if this is misinformation.
Quote:
Children living in poverty have a higher number of absenteeism or leave school all together because they are more likely to have to work or care for family members.
Dropout rates of 16 to 24-years-old students who come from low income families are seven times more likely to drop out than those from families with higher incomes.
A higher percentage of young adults (31%) without a high school diploma live in poverty, compared to the 24% of young people who finished high school.
40% of children living in poverty aren’t prepared for primary schooling.
Children that live below the poverty line are 1.3 times more likely to have developmental delays or learning disabilities than those who don’t live in poverty.
By the end of the 4th grade, African-American, Hispanic and low-income students are already 2 years behind grade level. By the time they reach the 12th grade they are 4 years behind. In 2013, the dropout rate for students in the nation was at 8% for African American youth, 7% for Hispanic youth, and 4% for Asian youth, which are all higher than the dropout rate for Caucasian youth (4%).
Less than 30% of students in the bottom quarter of incomes enroll in a 4 year school. Among that group – less than 50% graduate.
Money doesn't necessarily equate to quality one way or another, Vers.
There's tons of title one support programs, but idiots in the school systems mismanage it.
We have bureaucrats enacting policy in high risk education areas, and these individuals enact an unequal opportunity. They don't understand what these community needs. So therefore, yes we still have a separate but unequal problem.
When I walk into a room, you don't see a man, you see a black man and then all of your bias, stereotypes, assumptions go into a affect.
If you walk into a room I would see a man. Would I notice you were black, sure. I would also notice if you were wearing browns gear or steelers gear. I would notice if you had hair or were bald. If you were short or tall, skinny ir fat, wore glasses or not. Had any earings, or tatoos. I would notice if you had any large burns or scars. Had a beard, or a mustache. You see I would notice many things about you. However I would still see you as just a man.
You really think "laws, policies, and education" affect blacks more than than Hispanics, Asians? Heck, as for education and laws, whites deal with the same thing. And there are laws about policies - whether you think they are carried out equally is a different story, I get that.
War on drugs really put many black and Latinos in jail. Jails are privatized which means the more people who go to jail, will make money for corporation. Data says that poor people go to jail at pretty much the same rate no matter what race, however there are more blacks and Latinos who are in poverty which means more of them go to jail.
Education is linked to high paying jobs, data proves that kids in poverty won't perform well in school. So these kids will not have the same education opportunity then others. More Black and Latinos are in poverty which means they have less opportunity to get a high paying job.
I have provided links for all of these issues in the past to support this argument.
You can pull up studies to say pretty much anything you want. For example there is published research out there that says IQ correlates strongly with wealth/success, and that the average IQ is different among different races. That last bit has been shown to hold even after adjusting for economics, education, researchers have done all sorts of interesting things like using info from adopted households etc. and the conclusion is that the economics/education aspect of it makes up only a part of the difference (half or less). So I think you have to be careful drawing conclusions from research-- anybody could derive dangerous conclusions from that depending on their motivation and biases and such.
If you take a worldly view, honestly, the situation is not pretty. Look at predominantly black/African areas anywhere in the world, it is pretty much the same thing-- lower income, high crime, poor education, high rates of disease, etc. This is the part that is making me sick and tired of hearing about how the plight of African-Americans is the fault of whites, and that most Americans are racist. At best it's just wrong; at worst it's a friggin' lie.
You can't say that the populations of all countries are racist against blacks. Take a look at the predominantly black countries themselves, there's no way you could say that African countries are racist against blacks; I wouldn't take you seriously if you did. Yet it's the same thing there-- low income, high crime, high rates of infectious diseases especially AIDS, etc. Actually as far as I can tell, the situation is worse in every Sub-Saharan country than it is for African-Americans in inner cities. And we can point out that there's greed/corruption/poverty there, but Africa also has the most abundant natural resources of any continent in the world. Humanity also happened to begin there, so ancestors of Africa had a head start of literally hundreds of thousands of years over the rest of civilization. What is going on there? I'm actually genuinely curious. This would actually be a very valuable explanation as well as corporations and governments around the world have spent a lot of money trying to apply the European models of economic growth to African countries and it just does not work.
Here are some facts, please let me know what you think, especially if this is misinformation.
Are you deliberately trying to fight? You really did not know that I was talking about how much funding is allocated to the various schools?
The statistics you provided have to do more w/the people involved than the government and/or schools. I know it is tough to escape poverty, but it can be accomplished. I was poor. My brother and I do fine.
I have told the story of my wife [who is Hispanic] several times on here. She didn't have heated water, shared a bathroom w/eight other families in a tenement building, actually wore newspapers as shoes, etc..........and she makes over $300,000 a year.
The key is to motivate the children of similar families to "want to" escape poverty rather than enabling them to "stay" impoverished. While they do have legitimate excuses for their plot in life, allowing those excuses to hinder success is an even bigger problem.
As a teacher, I left the "white schools in suburbia" for the inner city schools and have helped turn many lives around. Now, I am entering a challenging, yet exciting, endeavor to help reach and assist even more kids escape poverty.
Excuses and enabling are not helping our poor. Hope and hard work will!!!
You can't say that the populations of all countries are racist against blacks. Take a look at the predominantly black countries themselves, there's no way you could say that African countries are racist against blacks; I wouldn't take you seriously if you did. Yet it's the same thing there-- low income, high crime, high rates of infectious diseases especially AIDS, etc. Actually as far as I can tell, the situation is worse in every Sub-Saharan country than it is for African-Americans in inner cities. And we can point out that there's greed/corruption/poverty there, but Africa also has the most abundant natural resources of any continent in the world. Humanity also happened to begin there, so ancestors of Africa had a head start of literally hundreds of thousands of years over the rest of civilization. What is going on there? I'm actually genuinely curious. This would actually be a very valuable explanation as well as corporations and governments around the world have spent a lot of money trying to apply the European models of economic growth to African countries and it just does not work.
I am not going to get too detailed but the simple answer is technology, resources don't really mean anything if you don't have the technological advances in order to use/sell them. People who have the technology will come in use/sell them in a way that benefits them.
Europeans were able to dominate the world with the invention of the firearm a huge technological breakthough. They used the firearm to colonize the world.
You can't say that the populations of all countries are racist against blacks. Take a look at the predominantly black countries themselves, there's no way you could say that African countries are racist against blacks; I wouldn't take you seriously if you did. Yet it's the same thing there-- low income, high crime, high rates of infectious diseases especially AIDS, etc. Actually as far as I can tell, the situation is worse in every Sub-Saharan country than it is for African-Americans in inner cities. And we can point out that there's greed/corruption/poverty there, but Africa also has the most abundant natural resources of any continent in the world. Humanity also happened to begin there, so ancestors of Africa had a head start of literally hundreds of thousands of years over the rest of civilization. What is going on there? I'm actually genuinely curious. This would actually be a very valuable explanation as well as corporations and governments around the world have spent a lot of money trying to apply the European models of economic growth to African countries and it just does not work.
I am not going to get too detailed but the simple answer is technology, resources don't really mean anything if you don't have the technological advances in order to use/sell them. People who have the technology will come in use/sell them in a way that benefits them.
Europeans were able to dominate the world with the invention of the firearm a huge technological breakthough. They used the firearm to colonize the world.
Modern humans have lived in Africa for 200,000 years. There are 54 countries and it is the second most populated continent in the world. Why isn't the technology better?
FWIW the firearm was actually invented in China but that really doesn't change much here. Maybe there is something to the whole, 'Asians are smart thing'? If we are talking about technology, think about any of the East Asian countries really. There is a lot of technological progress that comes out of China, South Korea, Japan, etc. There's also a ton of technological progress in the U.S. and some in Europe as well.
Think about Japan... that is an archipelago of awfully placed (earthquakes, tsunamis) islands with very little in the way of natural resources. And they're doing just fine. This might be a sensitive subject for some Americans but they were able to fight major wars against major powers in WWII. Think about the attack on Pearl Harbor, while nobody has to like anything about it, the technological prowess and planning needed to pull off an attack like that were incredible. Yet here we are, 75 years later, and no African country has ever built an aircraft carrier.
Why is it in the United States, we factor race into who gets into colleges? Why can African-Americans get into colleges with lower scores than Asian-Americans? I really don't have any vested interest in this; I just think it's wrong (I'm neither African nor Asian) and that we should treat everybody the same. Nobody should have an advantage or disadvantage based solely on their race. It just seems that Asians (really meaning people of East Asian descent) do well everywhere. The flipside is that African descendants don't do well anywhere (at least by most of the objective measures-- wealth, crime rate, technology). Hey if I'm wrong, I'm wrong, and I hope that you will tell me why I'm wrong if that's the case. But like I said, I'm tired if being told that it's the fault of white Americans. It's just inaccurate.
Yet even with some disadvantages (past discrimination, they look different, even discriminated against in affirmative action which is supposed to help minorities) Asian-Americans have managed to exceed the prosperity level of white Americans by a significant margin, so it can be done after all. Do you know what I say about that? Good for them. It doesn't bother me in the slightest.
We can treat everyone "the same" when institutionalized racism is extinguished against minority groups. Not everyone gets treated the same in this country, and a lot of that is due to deep rooted fears in "the other".
I love when people talk about "what about Asians?! They're the prefect model minority!" Want to know why that is? It's because they are submissive by nature, and they rarely, if ever, challenge the paradigm of the majority in America.
How many times have you heard an Asian person whine about why they couldn't get ahead in life? Let me guess, none. Why is that such a bad thing? Asians get ahead because (speaking in generalities/averages here) they are smart, they work hard, and there is a culture of excellence and taking action. I view all of those as major positives. In fact, I hold everybody to that standard. I will not make excuses for anybody (some exceptions could perhaps be made for those with mental and/or physical handicaps).
I know the 'institutionalized racism' argument; I just don't agree with it. Some minorities get a large amount of welfare, affirmative action, lowered standards for college admittance, companies go out of their way to be more diverse (this is not necessarily the same thing as hiring/promoting the best person), etc etc. There is actually a lot of institutionalized racism that goes against whites and Asians. Does that cancel out some of the bigotry and such that is still out there? We can go in circles about that but I'd rather not.
I will say that in modern day America, I strongly believe that anybody who is smart, works hard, and makes good decisions (especially financially) will do well. I also think that once you start indoctrinating people with how they are treated so unfairly, it's such and such's fault, and that they are generally entitled to things that you are setting them up for failure. I know from past experience having some very high highs and very low lows, that my successes were the result of my attitude changes, not the other way around.
I will say that in modern day America, I strongly believe that anybody who is smart, works hard, and makes good decisions (especially financially) will do well. I also think that once you start indoctrinating people with how they are treated so unfairly, it's such and such's fault, and that they are generally entitled to things that you are setting them up for failure. I know from past experience having some very high highs and very low lows, that my successes were the result of my attitude changes, not the other way around.
I think this is very true, but the "majority" doesn't want to hear it......so, be prepared to be labeled.
I, as a black guy, am not smart nor do I work hard in your eyes then?
Your post is really bothering me.
So intelligence is based off race. Ok.
You are a smart guy. You work hard. I'd consider you successful-- you've posted about how much money you have stacked, you have a beautiful family, and I admire how you 'think big.'
Same with Lurker. You guys have had some discussions on here about how you guys grew up in rough areas on the East Side of Cleveland. Lurker has also posted on here about how has a nice car, a few houses, whatever (I forget the exact details). He has a tech startup he's working on. I don't know if that will take off but he will hit it big, either on that or some future project.
Clem, same thing, right? He seems like he's doing pretty well? Smart, hard worker, right? See where I'm going with this?
As I wrote in that post, the comment about Asians was averages and generalities and yes I think that in general Asians are smart and work hard and that has a lot to do with why they are a different-looking minority in the United States that has exceeded white wealth and prosperity. Do you have another explanation?
here at Cleveland State, all the students are required to take a US Diversity class. i wasn't really down for it, but mandatory is mandatory, so i took intro to black studies.
we was watching clips and documentaries about the civil rights movement.
they did interviews with white students, and one of the recurring statements that seem to always be repeated was "it just easier to accept hispanics and jews because they look like us, blacks just look so different".
as far as asians go, they have the great stereotypes. they ALL are smart, and work hard. hell, the only two negative stereotypes i ever hear about them are their terrible driving skills and the guys small, uh...genitals.
my mother is puerto rican. have you ever been there? they range from blond hair blue eyed to nigerian black.
but a lot of hispanics...sometimes you have to really look to tell if they are hispanic or not. it's also why on applications you have white-non hispanic and white-hispanic.
have you ever been to spain? if not, you need to go, barcelona and Ibiza are amazing party spots. anyway, i can't tell bro. especially northern spain, they just look like white guys.
also, asians and hispanics(for the most part) don't have the added consequence of not only being enslaved, but they also didn't have to do with Jim crow laws. the jim crow laws were specifically written for blacks.
hispanics didn't have the problem because a lot of them can routinely pull of being and looking white. as far as us? good luck, Tyrone.
now, people are already jumping down the rafters with the slavery comment, but the fact is that our history has a lot to do with race relations today. take out slavery, still have the jim crow laws, take our jim crow laws, still have the civil rights movement.
people also seem to forget that relatively speaking, segregation wasn't that long ago.
anyway, as i have said a ton on EE, yes, we have a lot of things we need to fix within ourselves in the black community, but what bothers is me is when whites act like their majority had zero to do with the reasons we are in the hole.
as far as intelligence goes, this is why your comment really infuriated me.
dude, my first two years of high school was in the hood. we didn't have enough books to take home to school and do homework. if the teacher was absent, we didn't have a substitute, we just sat there in class with no adult there to watch us. our computers didn't work, and the few that did were old as dirt. even our lockers were busted.
so yes, i'm absolutely making excuses for some blacks with regards to intelligence, because if i grew up in a white dominated area, i bet my test scores will be comparable to everybody else.
when my parents finally have enough bread to put me in private school, i was so far behind, it was amazing i was able to catch up, because they were talking about holding me back a grade. but my SAT scores were trash, my ACT scores were trash, because all the kids, even in the public schools on the west side, actually knew the material. i'm 28, and i'm college just now starting to understand all this stuff. i joined the military because in a sense, i had no other choice. i wasn't smart enough to do anything else. i would've had to take a lot of remedial courses.
there's a host of other things. but you're not gonna get an argument from me and lurker with regards to crime, or people acting ghetto or such.
but when people are downgrading our ability as if we had the same opportunities growing up as the average white person, i feel the need to speak up. it just simply isn't true.
and that isn't me making you guys have "white guilt". screw that. be proud to be white. be proud of what you got. be proud that you get to start at ground zero, instead of in the hole like minorities do. hell i'm proud of you guys. my wife is german, it's been a cake walk for her in this country so far.
but with regards to this thread, don't get mad at us black people for trying to encourage each other to do better. cause that's all we're doing. so when you guys are complaining about beyonce paying homage to the black panthers of the 60's, who helped protect blacks from getting smacked in the heads with bricks by whites, who helped keep those german shepards that the police let loose on us, then it makes it seem as if you DON'T want us to succeed in this country.
There were plenty of things to get infuriated about during Beyoncé’s Black Panther-themed Super Bowl 50 halftime show. Arguably the most egregious, however, is the Black Panther salute being given by several of Beyoncé’s dancers as they posed with a sign saying “Justice 4 Mario Woods.”
Woods, it turns out, was a thug who was killed by police after stabbing a man and then refusing to put the knife down when confronted by cops. A pretty cut-and-dry case, but something Bey’s dancers decided needed to be paid attention to.
Now, according to the U.K. Daily Mail, Beyoncé’s camp is denying all knowledge of the “Justice 4 Mario Woods” sign, with the media blaming the whole incident on — get this — two women who won a radio call-in contest to go to the Super Bowl.
Really.
Rheema Calloway and Ronnishia Johnson, both 25, say that they somehow managed to sneak the sign past guards at Levi’s Stadium in their panties and bras, managed to get to the dancers, then managed to give the sign to the dancers and take a picture of them, which just so happened to go around the world, all without Beyoncé’s knowledge. I’ll take “(Im)plausible Deniability” for $200, Alex.
Beyoncé’s dancers in an X formation — a tribute to Malcolm X — and the dancers who held up the Mario Woods sign.
“We did not know Beyoncé was going to have a Black Panther theme to her performance even though she had dropped the ‘Formation’ video the day before which has a lot of black culture references,” Calloway said.
When she saw the dancers in the Black Panther outfits, she said, “That was confirmation that we needed to do what we came to do there.”
“After the halftime show we were rushed off and our group was headed in another direction. I said to Rheema we had to go and we started running after the dancers,” Johnson said. “There were a couple of dancers walking out with their fists up so I tapped one of them and asked her initially if she would be willing to take a photo and she said yes.
“As we were taking a photo, I asked he if she had heard about the case of Mario Woods. Other dancers came around us and from the expressions on their faces it seemed as if they had already heard about Mario’s case and were empathetic,” she continued. “They agreed to hold the sign and say ‘Justice for Mario Woods’ and we filmed it on my iPhone.”
Neither Calloway nor Johnson — nor anyone in Beyoncé’s camp — seemed particularly concerned with the man Woods stabbed, identified by the media as “Jacob.”
“He tries to open my car door and out of defense I already knew he had a knife on him,” Jacob said about Woods’ attack. “After a few blows were exchanged between him and me, I got stabbed in the arm.”
As for the activists who overlook what Woods did to get killed, Jacob said, “I acknowledge what they’re doing trying to get justice and everything, but at the same time you have to realize there are victims of black-on-black crimes that I don’t feel they acknowledge.”
And this was hardly Woods’ first rodeo in terms of lawbreaking. Seven years ago, San Francisco law enforcement officials described Woods as an “active gang member” whose rap sheet included “armed robbery and attempted armed robbery; shooting incidents; weapons possession offenses; and driving a stolen car.”
Sorry, Bey. Your excuses for your halftime show are almost as despicable as the show itself. Instead of dedicating it to Mario Woods, why not dedicate it to the man he stabbed? Or, perhaps you could have dedicated to the police officers who gave you a ride to the stadium that Sunday?
Think about this for a minute-- Vers made the comment that I might get labeled based on my posts in this thread. Now I was aware of that going in, but here's the thing, I don't think I have written anything too inflammatory in here. Actually it's pretty benign, about the most controversial stuff is just comparisons between how different races are doing relative to each other around the country and around the world in historical contexts. And it's all pretty much accurate.
Yet if someone important were to go on record with the exact sentiments in my posts, they would get hammered. I'm an anonymous poster on the internet so I can get away with it, and it doesn't really matter because nobody would care what I had to say anyway. Yet if the average white guy went on record saying any of this, he would be lucky to remain employed and with his reputation intact. A politician could never do it although Donald Trump seems to be the exception. I actually think his candidacy is the result of people like me, good honest people who are so sick of the narrative that it's white guys who are the cause of all problems in this country.
Why should it be so controversial to point out that Asians are pretty smart? If you think that's wrong, and that they are no smarter than any other race, then it should be pretty easy to show that. But I think most of our experiences have been that Asians indeed are pretty smart (i.e. smarter than average), and their test scores (including IQ testing) are consistently above those of other ethnicities and that holds true even when adjusting for economics, education, upbringing, etc. That is a fact, albeit a politically inconvenient one for many. And yes the economics/education aspect of it *does* count for a lot, but how much more can we really do about that? We are already pouring money into bad school districts, there's no shortage of entitlements, affirmative action, etc.
What else should be done? Or maybe another way to look at it, what else should white Americans do so that kids in inner cities can get a better education? I think you will find that the best and easiest improvements actually come from the black community-- fathers helping to raise their kids, reduction in violent crime, a change in attitude from rebellion/entitlement to *gasp* fitting in, education, working hard, etc.
About your diversity class: Was that the same class where the professor said that slavery is the reason that black men and black women don't trust each other today? That there's some kind of genetic memory thing going on where whites are actually at fault for why black fathers don't stay with their kids? I believe I'm accurately recalling one of your posts where you said that is what your college professor taught the class. If it's the same educator, how can you even take anything in that class seriously? Is that the kind of drivel we are teaching our kids?
I realize the history in this country is ugly with slavery, Jim Crow laws, segregation and all that but man, that was all before my time. What more can be done about that? I hate to say, 'get over it', I know it is not that simple, but I guess I do not understand what more can really be done about that beyond welfare, entitlements, affirmative action etc. and eventually some of those things have to go away. Keeping in mind that I had nothing to do with any of those things and that I think they are despicable, how much responsibility do I have for that stuff?
Also, please use the phrase 'we were' instead of 'we was'. Nobody will ever take you seriously if you continue to use 'we was'. Crappy school or not, you're 10 years out of high school and you should know better by now. Keep learning. Honestly the vast majority of things that I know are things I learned after being out of formal schooling.
And for the record, I don't get mad at you encouraging each other (meaning blacks?) to do better. I encourage everybody to do better. The truth is that I've always been the type to root for the underdog. It's as true in sports as it is in life. Please don't take my posts as being anything different. I want everybody to succeed. What makes me mad is whites being blamed for many black problems that whites today have virtually nothing to do with (black on black crime, the deterioration of inner-city public schools due to crime and insubordination, single parent black families, etc.) It's also annoying at best to have to constantly watch what I type because I know that a white guy can easily slip up and be labeled with the 'r' word even with an innocuous and well intentioned post. I've seen it happen countless times. It might even happen to me here. oh well.
I've been curious on this subject for years...I didn't even know there was race until I was 13. That's me.
In college hey the Italians had some hatred but I was surprised when my Jewish friends had some hate. I asked why Most had the same story, they got corner by a group and got beaten on.
Now many years later so much has changed for the best...but there is still hatred - I am amazed at the opposite how much bias there is to white...for some reason its alway...not you Coach.
But now I see most racism black to white and white to black is based on FEAR! For many different reasons. But fear usually brings the worst in people.
Anyways. I get it about the cops. But I try to teach my players to not get involved with that. The bad apples will get weeded out. No need to hate them all. Do they get profiled...without a doubt and its wrong. But we should be more involved in building up the lower class whoever they are. Poor is poor. relying on the government is not going to last forever. I'm trying hard to get these young men to become Entrepreneurs. I don't have enough cause its a large book I can write.
Times are changing. Politically I would have the black community become independents and have whoever wants the vote to do something for the communities involved not this set up where the vote doesn't count cause it a given to one party.
Geesh I'll stop here. sorry for thinking out loud.
i don't think anybody on this board is racist, for the record.
i think some people either don't want to understand the racial dynamics, or really haven't dealt with it in their lives to know.
as far as not being a part of it, you also need to understand, we aren't talking about you, as an individual white male. we are talking about the system.
you, Has, isn't the reason why we get 4 times more likely to get shot by the cop, or 21 times more likely to get charged and convicted for the same crime as whites, with the same criminal history.
but whether you want to or not, you support that system. just like myself, a black dude, support the system whether i like it or not, because our taxes fund this kinda stuff. and we don't have much of a say.
so just understand that. for me to blame you as an individual, is me blaming my wife for the same thing.
she's german, she didn't have crap to do with what happened here. she's been in this country all of 3 years.
so i just hope you get where i'm coming from, because i absolutely get where you are coming from.
Swish...I have many friends on facebook that I do try to mentor why I joined facebook mainly to communicate with my players...now they tell me I have to get on IM...lol
I will have to say at least once or more a month I'm smh and praying for their soul...a Brother, a Cousin young Male Americans of African descent - btw the other way. Greek Americans, Irish Americans, African Americans has bee purposely made that way to keep us separated. Why I will say Americans of Greek Descent, Americans of Irish Descent, etc. But they are being memorialized as they parted this earth way way too soon. Not one of them have yet come up as being shot by a Cop.
All from the neighborhood that they belong to and most because they were trying to lead a GOOD LIFE.
This has to be our concentration. Not saying to turn your head on a bad apple in the police force. But the efforts and organization to make this statement with police and have innocent policemen murdered. Is not the solution.
We have to create better economics in areas. Crime white or black is mostly due to economics. I think there is a higher pct. of young black men who are stuck in dead end economics.
Something should be done...but the effort is being put in the wrong direction and a direction that will not end well.
A young friend said he was going to post a black activist every day in the month of February. I stated there is more to the history of AofAD. I noted that the LONE RANGER actually was a black man. Why they reference him with a black mask...cause when the series was started in the 20's or 30's they just were not ready for a black hero so they actually subtly put it into the script.
Not to exclude activists but there are many heroes. I'm afraid of a vision a young lady had as I worked for the "MOONIES" in the late 70's her vision was a Civil War in America between Blacks and Whites destroying the foundation that the country was built on. I fear evil on both sides White & Black are trying their best to get to that Evil Result. My youngest son appears to be getting married (not engaged yet) too a young lady of African descent. I fear the future and will work my hardest to prevent this evil from happening.
It's all good between you and me Swish. I don't have the day to day experience with racial dynamics. I'll give you that. In fact I think that one advantage that I have is that I don't have to spend any time or energy thinking about it. Heck even thinking about and posting in this thread has taken up a good deal of my time today.
There are a couple funny things from my perspective. One is about education. Honestly I think the educational system in this country is so screwed up and that applies across the board. Even the kids that go to good schools don't really learn much useful stuff. So they learn more Revolutionary War facts or how much annual rainful there is in Brazil or whatever. Who cares. I mentioned this before-- the world is changing at an exponentially increasing rate; the best way to get ahead is to constantly adapt and learn new things, but I digress.
Another funny thing has to do with my physical appearance and my success (or lack thereof) in the real world. I'm tall, blonde hair, blue eyes, muscular, strong brow and jaw, etc. I don't think I get discriminated based on looks very often. Yet when I had done sales in the past, I was terrible at it. I was too soft, let the customers bully me around too much, and probably just didn't have my life in order enough at the time. If I could do that type of career over again I'm sure I would do better, but the fact is that hardly anybody would buy from me face to face.
Almost all the money I've made in my life is mostly anonymously (various web design/online marketing things) where nobody ever knew what I looked like. So there's no way I could have ever gotten an advantage there from being a tall blonde dude (I have been told on multiple occasions in real life that this had a lot to do with it. It always makes me chuckle.)
When you say that blacks are 21 times more likely to get charged and convicted of the same crime as whites, I don't believe that. There's no way that is true unless somebody is mincing words somewhere.
How could that possibly even be known? Like you can't just take the output and say everything is unfair about it. Take a hypothetical where blacks are convicted of a crime 21 times more than a white person for the same crime, but blacks are actually committing that same crime 10 times more often. In that case the more intellectually honest descriptor would be that blacks are twice as likely to get charged for the same crime. That would still be wrong of course but not nearly to the same extent. What exact crime are you talking about?
For what it's worth, I have shared my experiences on here with having an Indian girlfriend and the gist of it was that people on average were not as welcoming of her. I'd imagine that a black man has it worse in that regard than an Indian woman although that's not really a slam dunk-- she was a Christian adopted and raised in a white family but a lot of people thought she was Muslim based on appearance. And in my experience people are more likely to be discriminated against based on religion (Atheists and Muslims taking the worst of it in this country) than ethnicity although I'm sure there are a lot of people who won't agree with that either.
But now I see most racism black to white and white to black is based on FEAR! For many different reasons. But fear usually brings the worst in people.
And when people act with fear, people become fearful of them. It's a shame. A different set of letter patterns, skin color and a multitude of other, small, meaningless, differences divide us from one another as we become fearful. It's a tragedy that we allow fear to create enemies for us. Kind, gentle, would-be-friends turned to enemies, all because of perceptions of the mind. Tragic.
It's my hope that we can evolve and work towards an understanding of acceptance and comradery. [Why is that underlined as a misspelled word? I spelled it correctly, right?]
Anyway.......the blame game only fuels more hate. I pray that we can unite.
I wanna run something by you guys. It was brought up earlier and please consider it before automatically blowing it up because it doesn't "fit."
I'll need to start by telling a bit of history to set the stage. There was a time in the United States that a white man could be put in jail and a black man would be whipped in public if the white man was caught trying to teach the black man how to read. That's so powerful! It shows that the whites wanted to keep the blacks uneducated because knowledge is power.
Moving forward, I TRULY believe that excuses and enabling are the new ways of how some try to keep the poor down. It's like an opiate. You give them just enough to make them feel good. They become complacent and settle for far too little.
I suggest a movement where minorities not settle for handouts. They don't rely on excuses. Instead, they decide to dedicate themselves to the pursuit of excellence and prove to their detractors that they are capable of greatness and do not need excuses or enabling acts that only prove to hurt their own cause!!!!
How would you combat institutionalized racism? I get the keep on keeping on, but what do you do about those folks who get constantly pulled over just because of their skin color. Shouldn't instances like that get fixed instead of wringing hands of blame?
Not liking someone due to their name? Really, Peen?
In fairness, it sounds kinda French .... and who likes the French?
Seriously, though, these kind of stunts are for publicity, not to try to accomplish anything.
I don't like Beyonce's music. It's just not my thing. However, she is a very popular singer, and she could start a real conversation about race if she wanted to. Instead she pulled this stunt ...... and made sure that such a conversation cannot be begun by her. Further, what kind of message does she give her White fans, people who have supported her, bought her music, attended concerts, and so on?
True who cares racist, rapist, murder, terrorist or drug dealer their choice who cares?
All but one of those is a crime. Like I said, if one chooses to be racist, that's their problem. In fairness, I don't know that she is..It was just another stupid halftime show at the Super Bowl.
True who cares racist, rapist, murder, terrorist or drug dealer their choice who cares?
All but one of those is a crime. Like I said, if one chooses to be racist, that's their problem. In fairness, I don't know that she is..It was just another stupid halftime show at the Super Bowl.
A racist usually ends up committing one or more of those crimes.
True who cares racist, rapist, murder, terrorist or drug dealer their choice who cares?
All but one of those is a crime. Like I said, if one chooses to be racist, that's their problem. In fairness, I don't know that she is..It was just another stupid halftime show at the Super Bowl.
A racist usually ends up committing one or more of those crimes.
]
Which one did he wear? 
