Before I begin, let me please have the opportunity to tell you that this is a thread about good, bad, and ugly. Players and coaches can actually appear in more than one category. So please, please don't hijack the thread like you did last time when I put Joe Haden in more than one category. Thanks.

The Good:

--Kessler's TD pass. Great decisive throw.

--Browns FO for signing guys out of nowhere. I don't know his name, but number 57, I think he came from Cards' practice squad, has real game time speed and is pretty active.

--Pryor displayed strong hands, arms, and shoulders again. He really gains separation when he pushes off. I love it.

--D. Davis made some nice plays.

--Shelton is becoming a force in the middle. I was down on him last year, but he is playing well.

The Bad:

--Joe Haden getting beat deep again.

--Why in the hell do we play either I. Campbell or Kinard at deep safety. They both suck at that position. Both are in the box SS types. They can't cover and they sure as hell can't read plays. This should go in the Ugly, but it's too late to change.

--Tackling against Gronk.

--Covering TE's.

--I love Greco, but he struggled at center today. He is a guard.

--Ogbah. I pimped him before the draft, but dude, what are you doing to justify a pick that was really a first round pick?

--Our FO for not keeping Whit and Gipson, and throwing Kinard, Poyer, and IC out there. You gotta be kidding me.

The Ugly:

--Kessler's body. He looks more like the Pillsbury Doughboy than an NFL qb. After his first game, I made the comment that he was fragile. Nothing has transpired to change my mind. He's soft.

--The FO for their off-season moves, both in FA and in the draft.

--The Browns are 0 and 5. The only team in the entire NFL w/out a win.

--The dude who was sitting next to Jimmy Haslam. Ewwwwwwwwwwwww.

--The guys on here who make fun of anyone who ever questions the moves the Browns make. As usual............you are wrong!!!

our secondary is quite ugly ... can't cover with LBs and can't lock down anybody to be honest

i pretty much agree with everything you said.

i have a question: is russel wilson just built thicker? i mean the only injuries he gets are ankle injuries, and he still plays through them.

he never gets hurt from body shots. but all of our QB's seem to be made of glass.

and i didn't think Cody looked all that small in frame, but he certainly looked like that today.

it's really odd bro.

I think RG's shoulder was just a fluke. A qb has to protect himself, especially on the sideline.

McCown and Kessler, as I recall, got hit while in the throwing motion and got flattened - landing on their shoulder/s.

That's a good question, Swish and I really don't know the answer.

Guys have different body types. Some of the strongest guys I ever had to deal with were lean, wiry guys and some of the guys I used to just run over were muscle-bound brutish looking thangs.

Kessler looks soft to me, but of course, I have no scientific proof of that. I do think I mentioned it in his first game. Just as I did w/RGIII. Some guys come up "sore" after almost every hit.

Hell, look at some of the shots and falls Hogan for NE had today. How was that guy NOT severely injured? It's about body type, but it would take someone smarter than me to explain it.

agreed ... kessler "looks" like he's a little pudgy or without muscle mass. Like he hasn't put a lot of time into his body.

Who knows if it's true or not

The defense cannot tackle. Nightmare ugly!

As far as body type, just look at Tom Brady. Guy doesn't have an ounce of muscle on is whole body and yet he is incredibly durable. Yeah he usually has a pretty decent line but last year in the Broncos game he took a brutal beating.

Kesslers body looks fine to me.

So, ask him for his phone number?

Btw..................what did your post have to do w/The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly?

Look, if you homers wanna ruin this thread every time I make it..........I'll quit making it. No problem.

My bad VD.

Ahhhh.............the VD thang.

Classy.

I have an addition to The Ugly:

--The number of Patriot fans at the stadium. It proves just how poor just how far this team has sunk under the leadership of Jimmy "The Crook" Haslam.

Hey, I think they cover as well as they tackle, and they press cover as well as they ever have! Blitz pressure is hard to get when you put so many guys into dropping off the line; we do it so much and so badly, I am convinced it is skill building process of some type that I fail to comprehend. How would change that up? We must be realizing the results we want or we wouldn't persist in doing it so often, week after week. It is The Horton, so it must be better than last year; after all, I read the pressers and such.

Credit where credit is due, Goose.

He commented to your pudgy comment.

Look nobody gives a crap whether you post here or not so it's not like posting that you'll give it up is the big threat that you think it is.

Despite all of your efforts otherwise, you aren't in charge here. If you want to post stuff and not have comments then go post your pocket lint collection on Pinterest.

If you put as much effort into football as you do other posters on this board, you'd be Vince Lombardi by now.

Good:
The ILB's bounced back this week with 26 combined tackles between them.
Shelton continues to look better every week.
Conner Hamlett got a TD on his first catch.

Bad:
Greco had a no good very bad day.
Our safeties in general.
Hue not coming up with a way to take the top off of their defense and keep them from putting 8 or 9 in the box every play.

Ugly:
Our safeties in general. Yeah I posted that twice.
We can't cover a TE to save our life.
Looking for QB number 5 on the waiver wire in week number 5.

Uhmmmm.......I didn't call him "pudgy."

Close enough for ya?

VD

Are you saying he doesn't look soft?

I'm not saying that at all.

I'm saying that when you post that he's soft, you shouldn't get your panties in a bunch when Turk posts otherwise in the same thread.

Despite what you think you aren't in charge.

Despite what you think, nobody cares what your opinion of other posters is.

Despite what you think, your opinion is not as important as you think.

Classic.

Good
Eh, not much I can say here.

Bad
How the offensive line got handled.

Ugly
Our te coverage. Every team's TE seems to destroy us.
Injuries, I mean it's really becoming a big head scratcher.

I'm skipping right to the ugly...

Yes, the patriots fans were plentiful.

On my way to the stadium, it was a sea of blue. In the stadium I was in section 104 and there wasn't a browns fan seating to my left my right in front or behind me. There was one annoying Cubs jersey wearing patriots fan from chicago sitting nearby. He wouldn't shut up and didn't really know much about football.

I used to love coming to the stadium and this day was just tragic. Too many gimmicky things at the stadium. The sheets pulled down over people to let me know where the dawg pound is located. The drum line... swagger... I really don't have issues with any of this, except the only reason we have them is because the product on the field is just no good, so they need reasons for the fans to cheer.

I'm actually on the same page as Vers with quite a few things. I think it might be one of the signs of the Apocalypse.

Good
- Kessler looked good in limited time. I have hope. I'm certainly not saying that franchise QB isn't still tops on our list but I want to see more of Kessler.
- Defence actually did a few good things in the second half.

Bad
- As mentioned, Greco just isn't a good center. Good guard, bad center. Did Mike Matthews sign anywhere?
- Run blocking was non existent. Browns got owned in the trenches.
- Lack of a pass rush. Our OLBs are applying no pressure. That's kinda important in a 3-4.

Ugly
-I had to look at Whitehurst in a Browns jersey. His arm strength is good but dude has dick all for accuracy and looked like he couldn't do anything but check down to crossing routes and the occasional seam. If he's the starter next game, I don't even know if I'll watch.

GOOD:

Not much, I guess....

Hamlett might develop into a big go-to target.
We " battled", Kessler was solid again, but Charlie can throws this seam routes, 15-20 yards down the field, with ease. An NFL QB has to make those throws.
Colquitt earned his money today with all his punting.

BAD & UGLY:

Tight ends continue to gash us.
We couldnt create any holes for Cro.
Centre of OL didn't play well.
Safeties have to be better in coverage, I'm not sure if our LBers covered well, but we need Haden to be a shutdown corner, or our secondary will be - IS?? - terrible.

Anybody have thoughts on Alvin?

Ugly stuff: Patsies fans everywhere. The Brady Brady Brady stuff was obnoxious.. we chanted 2 things that made them shut up: Cheater, cheater! and Lets Go Buffalo!

j/c
Watching Sheard look like an all pro! Ugly on our part.
And as every one else DB's And O line.

I agree, especially the draft. We are starting to get a good enough sample to see we wasted a lot of picks on receivers. We really haven't seen Coleman, but the other 3 look like they are just "guys". We could get as much value by cutting them and bringing in a few street free agents.

I agree on EO...that guy has shown me nothing other than batting down a pass or two. Really? That's what we are going to get?

The Good. I've got nothing except Kessler and the offense looked good on one drive.

The bad. The Oline. You told me it would be a hard year for them. You were right. Just not enough depth and talent.

The ugly. 4 QB's in 5 games. Geez...stop the bleeding.

I think the O-Line would be better without the injuries and everyone playing where they belong. Unfortunately, we have the injuries and have to deal with it the best we can.

Well, in all fairness he has talked about how he's starting to get up in years and been focusing on his golf swing. If Eotab has been playing OLB for us and knocked down 2 passes... I'd say Hue's got him playing at a higher level than expected!

But seriously, I'd have to say so far Ogbah has been underwhelming. He's made some smart plays, sniffed out a few screens... but he's not getting to the QB like I hoped he would.

The Good:

Jabaal Sheard played hard and had a nice sack. Oh wait, never mind.

and mingo had energy

We'll see when we get them back if true. The depth has been the big issue IMO. And that's a sign of poor drafting. We need to draft better. Get the elite talent and stop trading away our top picks.

He's the most annoying chipmunk.

A lot have made the case we were better when Cam Erving wasn't present on the football field. It's a case that I don't think I, personally, could debate against. I mean... McCown and RGIII were being literally destroyed each play. A lot of those times where the camera angle left because one of them ripped it and got the throw off, didn't reveal the amount of devastating hits they were taking. And legit, clean and by the rules type crushers.

I will say, if anyone wants to argue about the toughness of Josh McCown, then let's argue because I'll defend that man 100%.

Except in rare instances, it takes a WR at least a year to adjust to the NFL level. A Randy Moss type rookie season does not happen often, so I'd be patient with these rookie wideouts and give them time to develop.
The expectations some posters put on rookies is, IMO, unreasonable at times.

Quoted for truth...

The Good

Offense:

Cody is supposed to be available for the Titans game

The passing game was able to move the ball fairly easily when the Pats played 8-man box Cover-1

Hawk- getting open,creating separation

Gary Barnidge-5/76

Ricardo Louis-quickly beating press man/jam at the los and getting separation on vertical routes

Connor Hamlett-carrying over his production form preseason

Defense:

Danny Shelton-nuff said

Kirksey-making plays in the run game, being in the unenviable position of playing man-to-man against Gronk and Bennett had good coverage despite getting beat by some pinpoint passes

I'd be interested in reading more about the bold italics above. I read all week about how the Pats were going to shut down our offense by taking away the short, dink and dunk of our newbie QB. Then in our second series he marches the team down the filed going 5-7 with one throwaway and one egregious drop by Cro. That was a GREAT drive...as good or better than any I've seen by us in a long time. CW even lead a drive to a nice TD to yet-another new guy when we couldn't run to save ourselves.

I have difficulty seeing - and naming - the different strategies like the one you mentioned. If you would expound on that comment, I'd be interested in reading it.

forgot about Hamlett ... nice debut for him. He had high praise all TC

The ugly: I noticed that. The crowd sounded like a home game for the Pats. But...as I often do...usually not until the Browns are 2-8...;season ticket holders are having a fire sale on individual game seats and lucky stiffs like me can get field level seats for a song. I can't blame them. I see a ton of PSL's up for grabs on eBay. Plus, keep in mind this was Brady's first game back and a lot of Pats fans traveled to see him. And I imagine there are quite a few Brady lovers in our area,

Really ugly:
Giving up over 500 yards of offense in the NFL. Allowing 9.8 yards per pass average. It's not a wonder the Pats didn't run the ball.

Really ugly:
Brady chewing on chiclets and grabbing our defense by the groin repeatedly beacuase he's a star and stars can do what they want to the Browns.

+1

I don't care if I'm "right" or "wrong"

I just want my team to win.

because you are not a narcissist

The Pats sold out hard to stop the run. They made no pretenses about it.
They built an 8-man box and everyone played downhill hard.

Hue still tried to establish the run because that's the team identity and imho good run teams need to be able to run the ball some against 8-man fronts.
It didn't work for various reasons. The scheme imho wasn't creative enough. I speculate that Hue thought he could get some hard yards line up and just fireout, kinda ole school neanderthal strongest man wins football but the OL didn't get it done.

However Hue did attack the 1-on-1 match-ups across the board. But instead of focusing on Pryor they spread it around and exploited Hawkins match-up also. Teams are respecting Pryor going deep and the comeback has been open (it something they have to watch out for now though i.e teams jumping the comeback route with safety help over top). Kessler took advantage of Cover-1 man to man in the redzone when Hawk beats his defender 1-on-1 on a corner route.

Its a good sign that Hawk can get separation vs man-to-man and its only a matter time that they start throwing go routes/fades to Louis who thus far has been winning against press man with ease.

I would also like to see them work more drag/rub routes vs man and even some quick slants with Pryor and Louis.

Much appreciated.

Do you see where CK had to make choices in exploiting those one-on-one matchups or was he able to pretty-much stick with the pre-snap read given that the Pats were loading up with 8 in the box? In either event, it appeared that his execution was quite good.

Very interested in your comments on Hawk and Louis basically showing some consistent ability to get open. That helps explain why the other new WRs aren't seeing the field much yet.

Good stuff there

I can't answer that one. I don't know whether the match-ups are predetermined or QB choice. Often times the reads are split and the QB can choose which side of the field to work based on certain keys/rules.
But, even on a given side of the field the QB still can choose which match-up to exploit OR the play may have a set progression he has to follow OR both.

Either way the combination of Kessler's decisions and the playcalling is working well.
in In either event, it appeared that his execution was quite good.

I think some traits were evident on their college film, the available metrics and in pre-season reps/opportunities (and not to mention draft position).
-Higgins is very good route runner that struggles when pressed
-Louis is a physical freak, height, weight speed and measurable that rivals Andre Johnson, he's tough to press and if he's is pressed and he wins very few DBs are going to be able to run with him deep, but he's also an unpolished route runner with a limited route tree


If you are really bored and want to talk Browns and/or fantasy football stuff you can call/listen in to a fledgling amateur show tomorrow from 130-300 pm:
realtalkfantasyfootball

All are welcome. If you want to call in mention that you got the link from edromeo on dawgtalkers.net 240-718-8262/301-546-3501

This was the 1st 3rd down of the game:


Cover 1 man across the board Single post S playing middle of the field not shading to either side


Louis(slot) and Pryor(wide) have already beat the press
top side Barnidge is still covered
Unfortunately: Greco (I think) missed his assignment and a free rusher is already pressuring Kessler
IF the play called for Kessler to read the left side of the field with Louis+Pryor he would have an quick pass available because both won.

Pressure is already home and Kessler had to bail from the pocket but you can see here the results of beating press vs Cover 1: Pryor was open on a fade/go route and Louis was open over the middle

ed...good stuff, the pics.

On the play, big question..why is our RB going out for a pass while a defender is on Kessler in an instant?

Kessler never had a chance because the RB misread the play, imo. He should have taken the first man to show, imo.

new phone number:
301-336-6000 ext 3501

I would assume because he was supposed to?

.

thanks for the pics. I wish I had all 22 ... neat stuff