Ok.. here's Diam's "Come one, Come all" Post

Maybe it's not that people don't care, it's just that people don't want to type out the same things they've probably typed out for the past 5 or 6 seasons.

It's called apathy.

My main concern is that people aren't going to be able to see the light at the end of the tunnel that is going to be there and we'll blow it all up again.

There's a new owner. He's going to want to have his own guy in there, and his own guy is NOT going to want the guys that put the team in this position.

They will blow it up make no mistake about it. The current FO will be gone.

I'm not going to be long-winded with this post, but I will make an ultimate prediction.

Offense

I'm really hoping to see an improved OLine, but things are definitely shaky. Our guards are putrid IMO and Schwartz hasn't shown anything close to being "plug and play" material. If the line stinks, our offense will be worse than last season. In terms of our WRs, I'm wary of Little's ability to improve as a weapon. Also, Gordon is going to take A LOT of time to develop ... I mean like three years. He'll have some production, but it's a long process and he's light years away. TRich's value is being overrated simply because he has nothing else around him. I don't see him making it through the year healthy. Weeden has been my biggest concern since April. I watched him over the past few years, and I was so angry when we drafted him. IMO he's not a franchise QB ... he's DA reincarnated, including his athleticism. Weeden will never lead us to more than 8 wins, book it.

Defense

The injuries hurt. Taylor and Gocong at least made us competitive, not to mention the suspensions that are pending. I'm high on our young defenders (especially the DTs) but they can't possibly be ready to play effectively yet. I'm also very down on Ward .. IMO he's putrid as well. Not to mention Sheldon Brown.

All in all ... it's a very long year ahead. People will say they will be patient ... until they aren't. Plus, the schedule is brutal (the worst teams you could play for the most part).

Ugh, that's enough, I shouldn't have even started this. My final prediction:

3-13 with wins over Indy, Cincy, and Washington.

It's about to get ugly guys. But, there's always next year!

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Maybe it's not that people don't care, it's just that people don't want to type out the same things they've probably typed out for the past 5 or 6 seasons.

This is the reason I usually only post in Tailgate.

You can only type "This team sucks" in so many ways

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It's called apathy.

My main concern is that people aren't going to be able to see the light at the end of the tunnel that is going to be there and we'll blow it all up again.

Yep. People see that this team has been around since '99, so we treat the team as if we've had the same coaches and proper personnel in place in '99.

Let's face it. This is year 2 of an expansion team. It sucks to high heaven, no doubt, but just because we've been around a while doesn't matter, IMO.

My outlook and hope for this season is that we improve each game. If we lose to teams because the other teams are just better than us, but we make it respectable and you can see that hope for the future, I'm "ok" with that.

JMHO

i think i said this last year but man...

this group is depressing! We havent even played a game and we're already throwing in the towels!

Let it happen first...

Again we have a QB that can throw a pretty deep ball.
We have a running back who could have similar immediate impact to Adrian Peterson...and guess what, his former head coach is our OC
We have big physical receivers mixed with small quick receivers and some can actually get open
Moreso our QB is willing to throw guys open and take said chances
Our OL CANT be WORSE than last year, its entirely the same save for RT in which we improved. Nevermind that the guy is a rookie, but remind yourself that with a 2nd year in the system, they'll know better what they should be doing, and anything is an improvement over the gangrenous Oniel Cousins/Tony Pashos/Artis Hicks disaster combo of last year. It cant possibly be worse.
Also...when Obi started at RB in his 2 stars he ran for 90 on 19 carries v. the Rams and 115 on 21 carries against the Jags. He also broke out for a 28 yarder against Pitt...Thats Obi...We now have a WAY better running back in Trent nevermind that hes a rookie. The man is beast.

We have improved Tight ends...really, we've improved everywhere from a team that went 4-12. We're better in LBs (JMJ, Robertson, Fort) better in the secondary (healthy Ward, Hagg, Haden, Skrine, Wade...save for Brown but he wont start all year), better at DEs (Rucker, 2nd year Sheard, Parker, Stephens)...only DTs have slipped, and not really because our depth is better...

Every spot is improved save for DT which cancels because now we can rotate guys. How can it get worse?

ok, here's my take:

offense

QB - I didn't like taking Weeden that early, but he's our QB now and we have to roll with it. He is going to struggle mightily under pressure and our OGs have not shown that they can keep the pressure off of him (and Schwartz has one of the most ridiculous opening season slates a rookie RT could possibly have). So, I expect a ton of frantic mistake passes early and often. However, I also expect him to beat these defenses geared towards putting on the heat with some big plays as well. I think he has the arm and the gusto to go deep to our bigger more physical WRs (and with the refs letting more bumping downfield that actually might be a slight advantage to us).

WRs - I expect massive improvement. How can I not? Little and Benjamin will have their drops (just seems to go with them), but I expect them to cut down on those and I expect Gordon to flash brilliance (with rookie mistakes - really bad ones at times). and, I expect more depth here since we have made our return.

TEs - I don't know what to expect. I like Watson "if he can stay healthy" I am intrigued by Jordan. Lot's of ? here though.

RBs - I'm cautiously optimistic that the Richardson + BJAX combo can be potent. BJAX isn't great but he fills the secondary RB role great (very good blitz pickup and receiver out of the backfield).

OL - again, I want to see the OGs perform before hoping for more. Schwartz will struggle on the rookie learning curve. JoeT is JoeT and Mack is above average.

-----------------------------------------------------------

Defense

DL - ugh. Losing Phil Taylor may prove to be a fatal blow. Glad to see the youngsters doing their best to fill-in, but that one hurt. I want to see some more pressure from the DEs, but we'll see what happens. I have a feeling DE is going to be high on the list of needs for the 2013 draft.

LB - again, tough with Gocong being injured. Might be ugly at times early with aggressive rookie mistakes (they better be aggressive mistakes). JMJ is the guy I have tabbed to make some noise as the season goes along.

DBs - I like our CB depth (though don't think Brown should be starting). I don't like our S depth, but am intrigued to see Hagg + Ward as the starters. Hopefully, we can keep healthy here since we are not staying healthy at the other defensive spots.

Overall - I think we are going to be better offensively than most people think and worse defensively. Around a 17-20 NFL rank in both really. And, by that, around 6-9 wins, but the 6 is much more likely with our youth.

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Ok guys.. I know you have opinions. Lets not be shy here. I know some of you can write novels..

5-11

And that's being optimistic IMO.

There are too many questions and not enough answers right now. My biggest two concerns are pass protection and playcalling.

If we continue to run on first down every single posession, this offense will go nowhere fast. At some point, you have to make your oponent actually guess which play you are going to run in order to succeed with where we are at this time. Having second and longs ot telegraphing your plays simply won't cut it this year.

We simply don't have the experience on the OL, or talent at G depending on your opinion, to maul people and run the ball down their throats. We certainly don't have the pass protection to give Weeden a three to four second pocket on any type of regular basis.

So to have success on offense, we will be in need of Shurmer coming out of his cacoon and soaring ¿ike a butterfly this season. Some "under two second routes" on first downs. Preferably of the 10 to 15 yard variety. Quick slants, hooks and comeback routes come to mind.

We will need our rookies to grow quickly into their roles. We saw Little last year afte a year out of football. For people to expect more or even the same from Gordon who didn't even have a Junior year is quite unrealistic IMO. Next year will be the year to get a clue what he will become just as it will be with Little this year.

Our D? Well, last year our secondary was not put to much of a test. When teams know they can run all over you, they do. And they did. Will they again this year? That's still up in the air. By up in the air, I mean it depends on what we can do through the air.

If you can put up points, it forces your oponents to pass the ball. 13.6 points per game does not accomplish that. If you can get that total up somewhere between 21-27 points, it most likely will force them to pass more than they run. Some offenses use the run in order to pass. Some pass in order to open up the run. With our oponents consistantly putting eight men in the box, we will have to prove we can pass to open up the run.

The only reason I feel that 5-11 is doable is due to continuity developing between the QB and the WR's as the season progresses. I hope that will also develop in terms of pass protection with this OL, but I'm not nearly as optimistic of that.

So IF Shurmer has it in him to be somewhat innovative in his playcalling and the WR's and QB develop some timing and rythym, I expect to see a 5-11 record. If either of these two things do not happen, 2 or 3 games may very well be all we win.

I'm hoping a new owner will put a fire under Shurmers butt. Whether that's to stay here or as a resume' for another job. Certainly he has figured out what he was doing is broken. If not, we're all in for a very long season.

Sometimes it's not having the greatest talent, but doing the most with the talent you have. I'm not a Mangenious fan, but that team he won five games with wasn't nearly as good as this one.

So here's to hoping the glass is half full...... At least in the last half of the season. In the first half of the season? We may not even get a sip......

7 wins max with most of them coming in the second half of the season., Reason, simple Lots of very young guys that will get better as the year goes on.

We'll struggle at first. then if these guys are real, we'll improve enough to squeak out some wins.

I've been within one win in my predictions for the last five years or so ... then again, it doesn't take a genius to see that we've been pretty bad. I don't have much optimism for this year, though I'd love to be dead wrong.

I'd say 4-12. 6-10 is the ceiling, 2-14 is the floor.

I've yet to see anything out of Pat Shurmur that instills any confidence. I think it's very possible that he gets canned unless we win six games. Not saying he should or shouldn't be ... but I think the guy is already on the hot seat.

I think Weeden has bust written all over him.

Our WR's are raw, and I expect lots of mistakes.

Richardson needs to show up in a big way. If he goes down with an injury, I think 1-15 or 2-14 is a distinct possibility.

Losing Taylor, Gocong (and possibly Haden) is going to hurt. You know your D is bad when losing Gocong is a big blow.

I fully expect us to have a top five pick again next year.

I'm going with 3-13.

I see this season as one big struggle for an inexperienced squad facing one tough opponent after the next. God help the team if the injuries mount up. I think we are going to have to scheme well week in and week out to stay in these games.

All I am going to look for is progress out of the first and second year guys to give me reason to have hope for next year. Not that i don't need that anyway because next year here I'll be.

I really don't get all the negativity around here....we were a pretty young team too last season and won 4 games...Vegas has us at 5.5 wins with all media boobs going hard on the Under (fade material) and we DOMINATED the trenches in both Steelers games....have we already forgotten that we played them to the end twice and had a good shot beating them if we had some kind of passing game? I just don't see how Weeden can be worse than McCoy, even if he busts

Otoh, maybe it's a good thing too, so that the casual fan might be saying "we were better than expected" at the end of the season

Sorry Django I wish I had your optimism. This team sucks IMO. Too many young and inexperienced guys. The defense will end up missing Haden and Taylor. Our offense is going to struggle because our guards can't block and we will have an abysmal passing game. We can't beat Pittsburgh or Baltimore.

I am predicting 6-10 at best.

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Ok guys.. I know you have opinions. Lets not be shy here. I know some of you can write novels..

Random thinking here...

I think much WAY to much was made of how close some of the games were last year and how high our D ranked. I believe those two thing have led to a false impression of overall improvement. I don't have the numbers handy, but I do know what I saw. I saw the Browns get their asses handed to them week in and week out, with the second half of many of those games being a mere formality that allowed us to score meaningless points and pad our D stats.

I think Shurmur was in WAY over his head last year, and that Jauron and Chldress are here to make sure he doesn't fall on his face week to week. I think that, in itself, is detrimental to the team as a whole, and would not be surprised if he were some type of joke in the LR. He may be better this year, God knows he can't be worse, but he was a ridiculous selection made by a pompous blow hard. That decision could bite us in the ass at worst, and at best will probably prove to be a simply mediocre coaching choice. If he turns out to be a great coach for the Browns, I will type "I want to bear Shurmur's love baby" 100 times. (Okay, maybe I'll just type it once copy and paste it 99 times.) He MUST learn to game plan effectively or he's just goofy collection of gooey organs in a meat suit.

I think our O-line is going to suffer against great D-lines, and I think Wheeden will be killed several times. His lack of mobility will burn us, and so will his tendency to lock onto receivers. I also think we are going to see the occasional OMG! play from him, and that will give us hope. Whether he can develop into a solid, NFL QB remains to be seen.

Our running game will be simply mediocre unless Richardson comes back 100%, and can stay healthy for 16 games. Without an excellent running game this year, I doubt the passing game will ever gain traction.

Our receivers scare me. I think they are capable of big plays and good plays. I also think they are capable of courting disaster through poor route running which causes turnovers. Hugely inconsistent and that is scary, especially with a shaky line and a rooking, immobile QB. I am hoping they are a huge and pleasant surprise this year.

Our TEs are major questions marks right now. Question mark #1 - Watson's Health. #2 - Cameron's ability when the Harrisons of the world are flying at him.

Our young D-line must hold their ground against the run and get some pressure on the QB. We have to be able to exert pocket pressure rushing four or this defense is useless. I don't know that we can do that yet.

Our linebackers scare me. I think they are capable of big plays and good plays, but are equally capable of being out of position and giving up big plays. As with our WRs, I am hoping the LBs are a huge and pleasant surprise this year.

Our DBs are the strength of the team, and that isn't saying much with Haden suspended, Ward questionable as to whether he can stay healthy, Brown opposite Haden and Hagg in his first year as a starter.

Special teams scare me. (Execpt for Dawson.) I think our highly praised punter is inconsistent. I don't trust us on coverages, and I don't trust the coach. I think return-wise, we will be average to slightly above average.

Heckert hits and misses, I think he hits more than misses, but the jury is still out. If Haslam turns it all over next year or the year after, it won't matter any way. Continuity will be shot.

I'll be incredibly happy when Chumley is gone.

I am extremely excited to watch these young guys play, and hope to see some close games, a few wins, and consistent and steady improvement with a nasty streak full of attitude. Give me that and I'll be happy with the season and the direction of the team. Show me the Keystone Browns week in and week out and it's SSDY.

It's not a novel, but that's the Reader's Digest version of my take.

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I really don't get all the negativity around here....we were a pretty young team too last season and won 4 games...Vegas has us at 5.5 wins with all media boobs going hard on the Under (fade material) and we DOMINATED the trenches in both Steelers games....have we already forgotten that we played them to the end twice and had a good shot beating them if we had some kind of passing game? I just don't see how Weeden can be worse than McCoy, even if he busts

Otoh, maybe it's a good thing too, so that the casual fan might be saying "we were better than expected" at the end of the season

I never put any stock in Vegas or the media... of course, I also over-estimate our wins every year. Last year, heading into the weakest schedule we've had since Anderson & Company nearly got us to the playoffs in '07, I expected 8 wins from this squad, and even looked at the schedule and felt that I could see that many wins. Go figure, eh?

Well, this year we're younger, and believe it or not, less experienced, than last year (how many rookies this year... 15? And how many of those are starting or playing regularly on normal downs?? 7-8??), and playing a significantly tougher schedule. That's a terrible mix.

All we have to go on of this team is what we've seen in pre-season... which, at best, is a mixed bag of ugliness; and that based on judging execution, not win/loss. If we try to factor in last season, well.... you're adding even more ugliness, lol.
I reserve the right to change my opinion following Week 1 when we've seen them play for real with an actual game plan, but, I just cannot see us being very good at all.

3-13. Horrendous. Barkley and a new HC next spring... everyone "of power" will be gone except Heckert.

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3-13. Horrendous. Barkley and a new HC next spring... everyone "of power" will be gone except Heckert.

Puke

I don't want Barkley

My fearless predictions.

Weeds throws for about 3900 yards. He tosses 23 TD passes, and 15 INTs. . He completes only around 57% of his passes, but he averages a very good 7+ yards/pass attempt.

Richardson runs for 1250 yards and 10 TDs. He will also have another 400 yards in receptions.

Sheard get to the opposing QB 13 times. Parker has 5 sacks in part time duty.

The Browns wind up with 45 sacks on the year.

JMJ breaks through as a rookie to become a force on the outside.

Cribbs really slows down. Benjamin may take over some return duties by the end of the year.

They also finish the year with 12 INTs.

Cameron Jordan becomes the starter at TE by year's end. The TE position winds up with somewhere in the range of 1400 yards receiving.

Our leading receiver among the WRs will have somewhere in the range of 700-800 yards. I do think that all of our receivers on the roster will have some production.

I do not believe that Hardesty will be on the roster by year's end.

I see the offense running mostly 1 back ........ 2 TE or 3 receiver sets.

I have us going 3-3 in the AFCN, and 8-8 overall.

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I think much WAY to much was made of how close some of the games were last year and how high our D ranked. I believe those two thing have led to a false impression of overall improvement.

i agree, but i don't think we were handed our butts each week. we had alot of close games because of alot of the QBs we got to face.

wk1 Dalton's 1st game giving way to Gradkowski
wk2 Painter
wk3 Henne
wk4 Hasselbeck (and before he got hurt, so 1st above avg QB we faced and we got killed)
wk5 Bye
wk6 Boller
wk7 Whitehurst
wk8 Alex Smith (average QB - killed us)
wk9 Schaub (above average QB - killed us)
wk10 gimpy Bradford
wk11 Gabbert
wk12 Dalton
wk13 Flacco
wk14 Roeth
wk15 Skelton
wk16 Flacco
wk17 Roeth

So, after wk12, we started seeing decent QBs on a more regular basis (other than Skelton), but before that the QBs we faced were mostly terrible (and when not, we got shredded).

My God, lol... that's so demoralizing, hehe!

Seriously, I never bought into the whole "our defense was good last year" thing, but that just highlights it in a big way. Ouch.

well, not to worry, we get to face Vick before his annual injury, Romo, Eli and RGIII from the NFCE and Brady, Fitzpatrick from the AFCE

at least we still get Sanchez/Tebow, Henne?, Cassel (or Quinn

), and Gabbert

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Again.. he's not here anymore.

I'm pretty sure I saw him lurking around...I was on the who's on line...and I saw his name...But hey...who knows...

I think I like having 15 rookies...Maybe they may be to numb to the fact that they are suppose to suck... and actually make more of an effort to win then some of the old vets that just want to get a paycheck....

I'm willing to give this coaching staff a chance to teach the rookies on how to win and be proud to be a Cleveland Brown...

I'm hoping the coaching staff don't hold this team back by playing conservative because they don't trust them in tougher play calling...Go balls to the wall...What else is there to lose....I love Dawson...but I don't want to see him much...unless he's kicking off after we put up 6...

I think this young team needs to kick the crap out of that old Steelers team...And the Rats don't scare me neither...

I would rather see this team go for it and make the effort to win..and if they look crappy learning fine...Because if this team plays conservative lay back and lose cause we don't think you can play to win...then I will puke and turn the game off..

Not much more to say..they haven't played a real game yet...

I'm not too good at predictions ... I would rather hear it from DiamDawgs fingers.

Like Clem said I look for spirited play from our youngsters. These Dawgs are still cutting their teeth. They will give us some head scratching moments, but I think that we will also see their talent potential as well.

I'm not one who buys into the team being blown up at the end of this season. It's possible, but I don't think that it's a forgone conclusion.

Ask me with 6 games to go and then I might be able to speculate a little better on that one.

With Weeden at the helm I'm anticipating some deep balls for TD's and more +20 yard plays.

I think that offensively T Rich will be key. If we can get him and the running game going, then I think that we have a chance to maybe hang around in some games and possible even win a few games in the fourth quarter.

Defensively I think that we have some talent there (albeit inexperienced at some key position) even without Taylor.

I think that other then injuries the only thing that will keep us from being a top 10 defense will be ineffective offense. (again)

ST's was not pretty in the preseason, but I think that could be in part do to playing a lot of players there who didn't make the cuts.
Cribbs will have help covering kicks and punts with Bademosi and Ventrone. Dawson and Hodges are pretty darn solid.

Hopefully Cribbs still has something left in the return game ... If he struggles I would not hesitate to bring in Benjamin in that role.

Diam ... you have been on your hiatus long enough my friend

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Sorry Django I wish I had your optimism. This team sucks IMO. Too many young and inexperienced guys. The defense will end up missing Haden and Taylor. Our offense is going to struggle because our guards can't block and we will have an abysmal passing game. We can't beat Pittsburgh or Baltimore.

I am predicting 6-10 at best.

Oh I think that we will miss Taylor and Haden, but the 2nd half of the season I think that we could be a pretty good defense with both of those guys back in the fold and our younger guys will be a little better seasoned.

Rucker can fill a really big hole that was exploited in every game we played last year.

Our Rookie LBers will make mistakes, but they have the speed to help make up the distance.

Billy Winn I think will surprise a lot of fans and I think that Hagg is going to be an upgrade at FS.

Our depth at CB is about as good as I could wish for (other then more experience).

Patterson, Skrine and Wade will giver us the ability to match up with multiple receiver formations and speed ... especially when we have Haden available.

I see us as having a great year if we get to .500, maybe one above. I think if we score more with Chilly, we could (maybe!) double the wins. If the D can get off the field, stops or turnovers (rarely), we shade it up.
One of my yardsticks will be if we can win in our own division. Used to be growing up that we split with several teams; was told early"Don't bet on the Browns, but don't you dare bet against them!" Ignored the advice and made some money a few times (the Kardiac Kids were good to me, but it almost killed me!). I want us not to hand out games like Halloween candy for a change and really get after our "friends" and beazt them. That is the only doorway to the playoffs, and we will need to stand on a few throats to do it. I hope to be surprised if we get crazy solid. With ten field goals possible for us per game, any game could be within reach! I heard Phil Dawson is OK with TDs.

What do you expect from a defense who's offense goes 3 and out and turns the ball over (Hillis I recall had quite a few fumbles as did our receivers) on a regular bases? Drops

We where actually pretty good in the Red Zone IIRC.

Teams won't have the luxury to run left over Mitchell when ever they so chose to like last year either.

I think that this defense is a year ahead of the offense right now and fully expect to see some improvement made over last season.

Our defense could be dramatically improved over last year and still allow more yards and more points. I fully expect this to be the case, because I fully expect us to score more than we did last year, and to put more pressure on opposing defenses.

We start out the year with one hell of a tough test though. The Eagles were #1 in sacks last year, and almost all of them came from their DL. They are a few handfuls, to say the least. If we somehow beat the Eagles, then people are going to get all kinds of unrealistic ideas. lol If we get blown out, people are going to jump.

In other words ..... same as every year.

j/c

but... but... Weeden will save us.

BTW Where have all the Weeden bible thumpers gone?

We should win about 8-10 games this year because a QB like Weeden makes the WR OL TE and RB better. We really should have a high scoring offense with Weeden at the helm.

I think we'll really struggle at times and show some glimpses at times.

Offensively I'd love to see TR around 1200 yards for the season... not sure if it'll happen with this OL. But even is a rookie with this line he should be over 1k if he stays healthy.

Would love to see Little get up around 800-100 yards with Jordon getting around 700yards which would help Weeden get around 3200-3500 for the year

Defensively I think it's going to be tough especially if we lose Haden for 4 weeks at some point.

Over-all record I really think we'll be around 6 wins, but I wouldn't be surprised at 4 and I wouldn't be surprised up around 8... honestly our division and schedule is just really tough. I think we're going in the right direction, but not there yet (obviously)

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Great post.

it's a terrible post. i wish i made it up. it looks worse reading it back too.

Ok so here I go...

On offense we try to become a running team. This makes sense, but can we pull it off? If we can turn into a running team, there will be hope. If Weeden is throwing the ball 40 times a game, we are in trouble.

There are a lot of new parts on offense, it will take time to develop. I am concerned about Watson, who needs to stay healthy, otherwise the hype about Cameron will be tested.

The defense will be tested against the run. If other teams are able to run, they won't have to pass, and it will be a long season. I am thinking that JMJ and Robertson will be playing a lot. Look for Sheldon Brown to continue to be a target, and possibly Skrine to play more. I think we will see a lot of new faces on the D.

2-6 for the start, 4-4 for the end, 6-10 overall.

General reply:

Someone mentioned this earlier. I'm expecting really bad (I mean REALLY bad) play at the beginning of the year. Mistakes that make you throw things in your living room and violently remove your TV from whatever room you're watching.

But then I expect improvement in the second half of the season. I expect a handful of our rooks to step up in a big way. I expect Weeden to lead the offense according to what I said earlier regarding a crappy first half season and then show improvement.

My bold prediction is that I expect Jordan Cameron to be our new Peyton Hillis this year (turn heads, even outside of Cleveland).

I said 2-14 before Taylor and Gocong were injured, and I now have even less hope that I'm wrong. Sophomore unproven coach, rookies in most of the money positions and then some, injuries to two of our best defenders and another one may be suspended, receivers still dropping balls, OL not performing well, new OC, a brutal schedule to start the season....I'm going to stop before I start crying.

In all honesty...

I still dont know how we can be worse than last year. Last year we got 4 wins. Ugly wins sure, but wins nonetheless...The NFL and sport dont care how you get the wins, or the losses. If theyre close, you can build, if not you need to improve. We had several close losses. Whether or not we were outplayed or what it was, they were close.

Now we have a 2nd year in the system, and the guys that arent in their second year in the system are talent upgrades over the guys that would have been. Save for Haden for 4 games and Taylor for 6. EVERY other spot is improvement. That is shown in guys like Emmanuel Stephens that started last year and are now backups.

Every trouble spot we upgraded. Sure they were with rookies (or older guys at DE) so we can expect some warts, but like I've said, when you have a QB that isnt afraid to sling it all over the place and wherever he wants it, and he has the ability to place it everywhere he wants it, you have a punchers chance. We didnt have that last year, because we had hesitation from the QB spot.

You think that MoMass and co last year really dug out their routes last year because if they were slightly open in their window they wouldnt get it and had to work hard AFTER the route to get the ball...that's what players will end up doing. Now we have a guy that will hit them in their window so the accountability raises. You'll see guys getting more open in their windows so that they can keep their job or keep the chains moving.

What I see is that theres no way for us to be worse. Rookies make rookie mistakes but talent makes plays. We have talent now on the roster, just young talent which will lead to mistakes, but to me talent always wins out.

Whether its raw, whether its inexperienced, it will shine, and we will shine approximately 7 times this year. Improvement.

My expectations for this team are at an all time low. Normally I am an optimistic "half full" type guy however, I see little hope for this season.

To much riding on too little experience.

When I look at the schedule it is a stretch to find a win. It would not surprise me if this team did not win a game.

But the NFL is based upon parity and it is really hard to go 0-16.

4-12 is about as good as it gets.

Question for all you pessimistic types:

Say we do go 4-12. Would it still be possible for you to see some glimmer of hope? Or is 4-12 mean getting rid of everyone.

For example, say we go 4-12, but in our 12 losses, most of them we are competitive right to the end, but our inexperience and lack of talent at some key positions is the tipping point. Say we play all our games like we did against Pittsburgh last year where we're right in it. But, we lose because the other team is just better.

Would you be "satisfied" (or as "satisfied" as you can be with a 4-12 record)? Or is the only way we keep this FO and coaching staff is if we go to the playoffs?

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Question for all you realists types:
fixed it for ya

Say we do go 4-12. Would it still be possible for you to see some glimmer of hope? Or is 4-12 mean getting rid of everyone.

For example, say we go 4-12, but in our 12 losses, most of them we are competitive right to the end, but our inexperience and lack of talent at some key positions is the tipping point. Say we play all our games like we did against Pittsburgh last year where we're right in it. But, we lose because the other team is just better.
Would you be "satisfied" (or as "satisfied" as you can be with a 4-12 record)? Or is the only way we keep this FO and coaching staff is if we go to the playoffs?

i think there is hope... for the first pick in the draft. The good thing is this team is getting loaded with talent. it's just not there this year. we need another year of drafting quality players and we will be there. I think we will keep them around one more year after this year and go from there. H&H will have 5 years at that point.

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Say we do go 4-12. Would it still be possible for you to see some glimmer of hope? Or is 4-12 mean getting rid of everyone.

Depends on if the team looks better at the end than it probably will at the start. Improvement won't likely be realized in the win/loss column this year. However, the hope is we'll see some tangible progress by some of our key starters as the year goes on.

If we start out a disorganized mess and end the same way, I would expect changes at the top with new ownership.

In my opinion, a 4 - 12 record will not be the primary reason for the blow up. The primary reason is simple.

We have a new owner. Jimmy Haslam.

The indications are that the new owner Jimmy Haslam is more hands on then Lerner was.

Jimmy Haslam will have his own people. His own people will have their own philosophies and will want to have their own people implementing those philosophies.

These new guys that come in may or may not be from the same coaching / management tree as MH.

MH record is not that great.

IMO, it's a foregone conclusion that we have a blow up at the end of the season.

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I still dont know how we can be worse than last year. Last year we got 4 wins. Ugly wins sure, but wins nonetheless...The NFL and sport dont care how you get the wins, or the losses. If theyre close, you can build, if not you need to improve. We had several close losses.

...and we could have and probably should have lost 3 of our 4 victories. Miami, Jacksonville and Seattle pretty much handed us those victories with idiotic mistakes. Our schedule looks to be much tougher this year.

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What I see is that theres no way for us to be worse. Rookies make rookie mistakes but talent makes plays. We have talent now on the roster, just young talent which will lead to mistakes, but to me talent always wins out.

Whether its raw, whether its inexperienced, it will shine, and we will shine approximately 7 times this year. Improvement.

I wish I could be that optimistic, but the rookie talent you speak of is as unproven as every other draft class we've had here. What's sadly funny is that the more folks argue that we'll have a better record this year, the more I believe we won't. This is our 14th season back, and I've seen it each year...expecting rookies to come in and have an immediate impact....and it's just not materialized with the exception of JT and Mack.

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Question for all you pessimistic types:

Say we do go 4-12. Would it still be possible for you to see some glimmer of hope? Or is 4-12 mean getting rid of everyone.

I think the FO will be blown up if that happens because of the reason Saint stated. A new owner combined with two bad seasons record wise. But I don't really see the roster being blown up accept for those who simply bomb.

And with this many rookies, they won't all be winners.

My prediction was 5-11. And no, I don't think that "has to be" such a bad thing. That depends on one overriding factor for me.

I expect it to be ugly early. With this many rookies at skilled positions, there hasn't been a chance for things to gel. Say what you want about training camp and pre-season, but you don't see peope in real time game situations. The D's and O's are very vanilla in pre-season.

The course of the season will tell that tale. I expect things to be ugly early, I really do. But as the season progresses, I expect to see improvement and some consistancy. If we start out poorly and finish strong, it shows this team and talent is developing.

If that happens, I consider that improvement and a good sign of things to come. That's really all I have hope for and expect to see.

I see 6 to 8 wins for this team as long as we don't sustain a ton of major injuries.

Offensively i think this will be one of our best teams but it will take time for the offense to gel with a new QB,RB,WR,RT and possibly a new TE. Weeden is a so much better QB then McCoy in that he can actually put the ball accurately down field. I know he didn't look all that pretty in preseason but i think most of the blame on that was poor blocking and miscommunications with the receivers which i think will get worked out in time. Add Richardson who i think is going to be a stud in this league and i think this will be a top 10 offense by the end of the season.

Defensively i think will be OK. I think our run defense will be better this year due to the young LBers flying to the ball but i worry about our pass rush, Sheard seems to be the only reliable pass rusher we have and opposing teams will double team him when possible to negate him. Hopefully Rucker and the DTs can generate some pass rush.

Special teams will continue to be solid for the Browns with Dawson and Hodges kicking the ball and Cribbs and Benjamin returning it. I'm not to worried about the blocked punts in the preseason as Shurmur had players in there who probably wouldn't play those positions just to see what they could do.

I do wonder why the Bills who went 6-10 last year seem to be getting some love this year when statistically they had one of the worst defenses in the league last year and their only upgrades were signing Mario Williams and drafting a CB and offensively they have a journeyman QB, one proven WR, and an Oline that was already a weakness and it lost its best player in Free Agency, yet people see them as playoff contenders and most experts pick the Browns to do worst then last year.

If Richardson is healthy all or at least most of the year, then we have a far better RB than we had two years ago with Hillis running behind a better offensive line. He could run for 1,400 and 12 and be rookie of the year. When you can run, you can do a lot of things. When you can't, you can't do anything.
We'll have better receivers than we've had in years, and they're a good mix of big guys and burners. I think Weeden is better than McCoy (who I really like). I know he has a better arm, better line, better receivers and a better running back. This offense could surprise people.

The defense could take a step back, mainly because of injuries, suspensions and a lack of LB depth. But it could still be average, especially with an improved offense giving it time to rest.

Put me down as 6-10 with terrible luck; 8-8 with no luck and 9-7 with a little luck.

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Question for all you pessimistic types:

Say we do go 4-12. Would it still be possible for you to see some glimmer of hope? Or is 4-12 mean getting rid of everyone.

For example, say we go 4-12, but in our 12 losses, most of them we are competitive right to the end, but our inexperience and lack of talent at some key positions is the tipping point. Say we play all our games like we did against Pittsburgh last year where we're right in it. But, we lose because the other team is just better.

Would you be "satisfied" (or as "satisfied" as you can be with a 4-12 record)? Or is the only way we keep this FO and coaching staff is if we go to the playoffs?

It's often difficult to apply logic to a situation where you're so heavily invested emotionally but another 4-12 season, even relatively competitive, I can't help but think my apathy is only going to deepen. I don't need the playoff's to feel we were successful but another 4-12 season is showing no improvement in the only column that matters. I want to see some improvement, something that shows we're headed in the right direction. If we are grading on a scale other than won/loss, we've already lost.

I'm just tired of being 4-5 or whatever, and thin king theres a shot at ANYTHING...

And then losing the last 6-7 games... Every time...

Only 4 wins? Somebodies gone. I assume Shurmur.

Part of me thinks Haslem will coerce Holmgren down to the Sidelines for one last hoorah if that happens. I'm sure that would make Mary Kay sad, because then she wouldn't have anything to speculate about anymore...

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Part of me thinks Haslme will coerce Holmgren down to the Sidelines for one last hoorah if that happens. I'm sure that would make Mary Kay sad, because then she wouldn't have anything to speculate about anymore...

Well there's always the chance we would trade for Tebow.

I was wondering if this post would make it's annual appearance.

I'll say it... this team will be downright AWFUL. The offense will not be much improved (mostly because 95% of the problems last year were play design, not execution). That being said, you start rookies and 2nd year guys all over the field without veteran leadership, bad results accumulate quickly.

Shurmur's Browns have no personality. No identity. They don't intimidate teams with physical play. They regularly commit atrocious numbers of penalties, including penalties at the worst possible times. As we witnessed in the preseason, this has not been cleaned up. It seems there is no one holding these players accountable for their mistakes.

And worse, last season we had just about the easiest schedule imaginable. Heck, the other 3 teams in our division all managed to pretty easily make the playoffs with our schedule last season. This year, the competition jumps up a notch. So even assuming the team will be better simply because of another year in Shurmur's system (I'm not convinced), the team is not better enough to overcome the more difficult schedule.

The optimistic best case for this team is probably 5 wins. The worst case and far from outside the realm of possibility is an 0-16 campaign. But I'm going to give them the benefit of the doubt that they will face a bad back-up QB at some point this season and steal a win. Yep, 1-15.

At least the new regime will get a shot at Matt Barkley.

The main problem I see with this team right now is injuries on the defense.

Phil Taylor is out half the season. Our linebackers are currently scrapped. Haden will be gone at some point. Other players like Rubin and Patterson have been nicked up.

On offense I really have no complaints. Weeden has the arm strength and aggression I want. Richardson is a monster. And the line is generally good. One of the guards stinking it up could be a legitimate problem that may need to be resolved next off season.

Right now we have a lot of young talent. I think we can be fairly certain we will have a top 10 run game (Assuming Richardson stays healthy). The passing game is a question mark. I am a huge fan of arm strength, and I have seen some pretty passes from Weeden so far. I do not know how well the passing game will operate.

I think injuries to an already limited LB core and losing Phil Taylor will cost this team some wins.

2013 will be much easier to predict as most of our offense is new and unpredictable.

I would say best case scenario this season is 8.8. Worst case 2.14, I expect around 5 wins. That will be an improvement. We basically have a very rough schedule this season.

The last thing I want is to blow up the management of the team. I see no gains in constant change of organizational structure. This team will struggle though no doubt about that. This team has 15 rookies. That is hard to swallow and overcome in games.

That means 8 rookies who were not signed by any team came to the Browns and beat others out.

On top of that all 7 draft picks make the team. Plus many of these rookies are starting including the quarterback.

Number one thing that has to happen is for Weeden to show he is worth the investment. He has to perform like a first round selection. He must demonstrate growth over the course of the season.

Second the team although young must play with discipline and focus. Hopefully they play hard and keep the games fairly close. You can tell when a team is not well coached . That should not happen with the experience of this coaching staff.

Results are important but the teams youth and the schedule they play will work against them.

For me they need to improve over the season, fight to the end of every game. I will accept a poor season if I see true potential.

The Browns will go 8-8 this year and will beat the Steelers twice. I bet a Steeler fan at work. If the Browns sweep then he has to wear my Browns jersey to work and visa versa. If there is a split then nobody wins (duh!) The first game is important.

I think the Browns are going to surprise and beat the Eagles in game 1.

I've settled at 5 wins... I just don't feel in my gut that we will get more, but I do feel we could win a lot less than 5.

OFFENSE: We imported a lot of talent, and exported some dead weight. We have a 'core' now, and this season is all about seeing if that core has any ultimate potential. Weeden, Richardson, Gordon, Little, Benjamin, Jordan Cameron, these are all guys who will be looked upon to produce. If we can't put something on the field that resembles a valid NFL offense, then I don't even want to think about how Pat Shurmur will keep his job. Less than 14 PPG last season, and that needs to improve. IMO, Wins aren't the end-all-be-all. There's a bigger picture here, and if the signs don't point to that bigger picture then change could be on the horizon.

DEFENSE: The injury bug took a chainsaw to our depth chart, that and NFL suspensions. I think we've added some good talent here with Hughes/Winn on the DL, JMJ (hope his injury isn't as severe) Fort and Robinson give us depth we did not have last season at LB. Our secondary is solid, and I hope we can overcome the injuries. Any success we have this season, it will be on the defenses ability to keep games close.

OVERALL: We have a major youth overhaul, and 'ambitious' is a nice way of saying it's a gamble. Can Weeden/Richardson and company turn around a anemic offensive attack? Between growing pains, injuries on defense. I see 5 wins as a high estimate. We will win some games we probably shouldn't, lose some close games we should have won and overall, hopefully we will all agree the team is moving forward. IF it's not... we might be smacking our heads into the wall as Haslem introduces another regime change in Cleveland.

I think we can split with Pitt, Sweep Cincy, but would get swept by Baltimore.

I think we can beat Buffalo, Indy, Oakland, KC, Washington, and Possibly Philly(It's game 1, no one knows anything) and NYG (Defending SB Champs Lose to us alot for some reason)

So that's 8 or 9 wins I think we could win...

I also think we could go 4-12...

But all this 1-15, 2-14 talk is ridiculous to me...

15-1. We sit starters in Week 17, to get ready for a Super Bowl run.

Playoffs, our closest game is when we beat the Packers 38-10 to win the Super Bowl.

...then I wake up.

We've already seen the Packers once; I doubt they'll score ten points on us.