I understand the pick, but don't like it.

I'm not a fan of this pick either.

Got to be kidding me. They passed on Jonathan Allen, Malik Hooker, OJ Howard and drafted this guy.

Wasn't he highly regarded? Why don't you like the pick?

I don't know if he's good, but hits makes sense wit Gregg Williams as defensive coordinator.

We also got a first next year.

Bet you we were the team that was going to draft Conley and we went too far back. We did not get enough in that trade. This sucks.

Underwhelming. He needs to learn how to play whatever position they put him in.

He's also a great return man.

It will take me a while to accept this one ...

He's going to be a hybrid type of player. Cover the slot and play in the box.

Terrible.

So he's basically TJ Ward?

I think he's probably better in coverage.

We should look at how Mark Barron was used with the Rams.

Three year project.

If we have Peopers at one safety we REALLY NEED a single high centerfielder. #33 better be Marcus Williams.

Gruden likes him .....

I don't think that's the best endorsement a player can have.

Let's hope Gregg Williams is as good as he thinks he is.

Time to go back to his film.

We passed on Hooker to take Peppers ...

who plays offense, defense, and specials teams

I like it. The blitz packages could be pretty sexy this year.

this is all gregg williams

Really wanted Hooker or Obi. But I'm happier than most on here.

I don't think he will play safety. He's a hybrid guy. Like Deone Bucannon with the Cardinals.

probably a blessing in disguise.

Hooker was not a good tackler

And got a first round pick next year.

I like this pick as long as he covers better than Ward.

Peppers is a football player. He will be a good player for the Browns. Versatile player will help in many areas. Williams will use him wisely.

Peppers plays like Polamalu. He'll be all over the field playing different roles. I believe this is a good pick. I like HATE we gotta cheer for a Michigan player!

j/c....

Ward is a very good player and we should have never let him walk

Master of none.

...project that hopefully Gregg can get to play a position. Other better choices to be had...

Not sure about the pick, but hoow much better is Hooker than Peppers? Once he concentrates on one position I think he will be good.

in college.

(I don't like the pick, but I think he will have a more defined pick in the NFL.)

1st round punt returner.

Hope I'm terribly wrong.

Are you kidding. Big Ten defense player of the year. 88 solo tackles. He is actually faster and more explosive than Adams picked in the top ten.

The dude's a defensive chess piece for a DC. I'd liken him to a bishop.

I despise this pick.

GW will move him all over the field. He's a football player. He hustles and is a good tackler. Solid pick.

Jabrill Peppers: "This is the best day of my life ... Myles Garrett is going to be a terror, and I'm going to do my part."

lol... He's made the Pro Bowl 2x and was an alternate last year. I'd say he was better than anything we had last year.

People loved his big hits, but love to forget how awful he overplayed the ball here in Cleveland. Let's not even talk about his lackluster coverage ability, too.

#goblue

I thought peppers had a dilute sample issue though???

I like the pick. I hate the team he came from...

Are you serious??? He did all that? Plus he runs faster than Adams in a straight line? Wow!!!

We may love him in a few years, but you want a fist round pick to start tomorrow, not start learning his position tomorrow. That's my knock on it.

Peppers does whatever coach asks him...and always puts his team before himself which i love...hes not a me me me guy...heck they had no LB fast enough to get outside the tackles last summer so asked him to switch to help the team even though his stock would drop with a change...and he did so willingly...that i love

I get it. I probably wouldn't have made the pick, but we'll see how it goes. We're stocking up on young guys with high Sparq scores and solid production. Peppers has the physical ability, and Williams can use him in different ways and hopefully clean up his coverage.

I don't know if I'm way off base and I hope I'm wrong, but Peppers reminds me of a more athletic Nic Harris; who was a hybrid type out of Oklahoma in 2009. I think that in today's environment a versatile player is key, but I would rather we find a front seven player with the athleticism to drop into coverage in passing situations rather than a secondary player who has the ability to come up on the box in running situations. Maybe I've been influenced by others opinions, considering he always showed when I watched Michigan play, but I think there was better value at corner and we could have got a solid safety at the top of two before the trade up to 29.

Mayock ... Who I think is the best of the commentators ... Says with a lot of conviction in his voice, he LOVES Peppers.

Hue Jackson said Jabrill Peppers will play defense but they will find a role for him on offense.

yeah he needs to learn...but he offers imense upside my biggest knock with him is he isnt a play maker...however I hope he can become an enforcer we need.

I like the versatility, coupled with a 1st next year, I approve.

Link please

We were so bad on returning kicks and punts...he will help immensely there

Harris was the better football player. "Athletic" is just code for "does not know any true position."

Can he play quarterback?

Wildcat

Gonna be honest. I know you're a troll and I think you should crawl back under your bridge, but in this case I agree; that pains me.

This. We got a safety and we got an extra first rounder next year. Peppers plus a first round pick is greater than Hooker IMO. Time will tell. We did get an elite pass rusher, a safety and the TE that the Steelers were said to have wanted.... We also have two first round picks and three second round picks in next years draft so whatever QB we covet we can likely get him. Not a bad night in my opinion.

JC: I'm okay with the pick. I think he will be a SS who fits Williams system. Like someone said earlier, I'm interested in what Barron's role was. I don't expect Peppers to be returning many kicks, but who knows.

I'm not a big Buckeye guy, so I don't care that he's from Michigan.

Guy's definitely an athlete, and I'm hoping his best football is ahead of him.

Plus we got an extra 1st next year, one I suspect will be top 20 pick. That's fine by me.

I'd prefer Hooker, but Peppers and a 2018 QB-less Texans 1 sounds good to me

Let me get this straight. Jabrill Peppers makes plays all over the field, is good against the run and is a good tackler. Weren't there chronic complaints on this board last season about our D not making plays when we needed to, lousy tackling and not being able to stop the run? Sounds like this guy can do all 3 and he's a hustler too. Also sounds like a team player. So what's the problem?

Time will tell. Could turn out to be a star. Skeptical at this time.

On a side note, Lindor hammered a HR to put the Tribe ahead tonight for the win!

Yeah, I'm coming around to your line of thinking. Yes, we passed on the best TE and arguably the best Safety in the draft at 12 ... but instead we got a Safety, Tight End AND a first round pick next year. That's pretty good. (So long as Hooker doesn't turn into Ed Reed)

The problem is is DB who isn't good at coverage.

Heres another thing that slowed us last year...team speed...we just looked slower than most teams weekly in all phases...all 3 of our guys are rather quick and fast for their given size...Jabrill also brings energy...something we struggled with back there.

Indeed.

Through team need he was asked to play LB most of last year. So is it that he can't cover, or that he wasn't coached to?

We'll find out. Dude has some spark and electrified his team. Looks to be a impact play waiting to happen.

He was rarely asked to "cover" at Michigan. Peppers was the #1 CB coming out of high school and has more ability than most. Harbaugh said he and Andrew Luck are the smartest players he ever coached, and I think Peppers will blossom as a SS once he can focus solely on that.

My 3rd favorite safety in the draft...and alot of experts had him that way as well.

Hopefully we got alot of tape on Jourdan Lewis while they looked at Peppers...I would love Lewis in round 3. He'll take Haden or Taylors job from them.

We all have our opinions. I liked the other two picks. It's not like I am being biased. I have said I did not like Peppers as a player in the first 3 rounds for quite some time.

Right, everyone has their opinions. No guarantees for any player, but I've watched Peppers a ton and he always seems to be in the right place at the right time. He is instinctual, blazing fast, a great tackler, and I feel he has great potential in coverage.

If true about his CB ability I'm really encouraged.

And while I don't like Harbaugh, I think he's a great coach and straight shooter... This post makes me feel much better about the pick.

I don't like the pick, but I hope to be wrong.

Instinctual? Blazing fast?

Nah, don't think so.

I wouldn't be surprised if we use him as a halfback. Punt returns etc.

I think Williams can get a lot out of him but, at 25 I was hoping for Obi. Now, at 52 I hope we get Marcus Williams.

Did you watch that breakdown video that somebody linked that talked about his assignments? It kind of makes sense. I definitely shared not really wanting Peppers leading up to the draft, but I could have been wrong. The sacrificing for the team aspect I hadn't really considered. Maybe Williams can put him in the best position to maximize what he is good at. The "commentator" talked about teams possibly being able to stay in base with Peppers when teams go 11 personnel, and with Collins to cover TEs I can see us possibly giving it a try.

Still not crazy about him, but I have a little more hope for him working out. Plus, we apparently share a birthday, so I might try to cut him some slack.

We'll have to disagree then. I've watched every collegiate game he played in and sure, he made mistakes like every player. He also routinely was in the backfield on runs, bubble screens, blitzes , and also made some very good coverage plays as a LB.

I am not going to dis this pick. I saw a difference maker on the field.

Polarizing figure, no doubt. Hopefully he becomes another Honey Badger and proves folks wrong.

I hope so too.

I am not sold on him, but we'll see.

He's a Brown. Welcome aboard, Mr. Peppers.

That helped a lot, thanks for the linkage.

Welcome to Cleveland! Love this pick!

Okay, how does his 40 time compare to other defensive backs?

Also, how many picks did he get last year?

I read this about Gregg Williams defense earlier in the off-season and I think it applies to Jabrill Peppers and his role on our team:

http://www.scout.com/nfl/browns/story/1749375-x-s-o-s-the-hybrid-defender

4.46 in the 40. One of the fastest safeties. To compare, Jamal Adams ran a 4.56.

Peppers had 1 INT last year. As a LB. Who wasn't asked to sit back in coverage all that often.

I hope this helps. I found it on another sight.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pW4HK4HXEi0

According to a simulcast they showed, faster than Earl Thomas. 4.46 is solid.

Not many picks, but it sounds like he was asked to focus elsewhere for the good of the team.

I get where you are coming from b/c I was there, too, but after digging deeper it might be better than I had thought. Please take a fresh look and do look at his "job" w/in the D to see if it might make sense what the guy in the film room video is selling.

He played linebacker last year. The team asked him to play out of position and he did so for the good of the team. Had he played at SS the entire season his stats would be different....

http://www.acmepackingcompany.com/2017-s...ts-and-40-times

Ran a 4.46 but not listed with safeties because he ran with Lbs. Fastest was a 4.46 that I can tell.

1 career pick.

I like the pick. I stop caring about where people played in college once they get to the Pros.

Guy is a Cleveland Brown now. I'm excited.

Dude has speed and is all over the field in the highlights I'm looking at. He looks like he's got a couple steps on most of the people on the field. In essence he looks like a Pro amongst more Amateurs. You want that out of 1st round picks. If they can dominate the field most of the time in high quality conferences that will translate to the next level.

I don't care where they play him, he will make an impact.

well he was flagged for watered down urine for a drug screen so I guess he makes sense as a Brown. God what a horrible trade ..

For as much as Ds are in the nickel package now days I think this pick makes plenty of sense. Our new D coordinator definitely drove this pick.

Yeah, IMO Peppers' best shot at transitioning to the NFL was with Williams

Peppers plus a first rounder? As good as it gets IMO.

Awesome ... nothing hypocritical or two faced here ....

Wind the clock back a year ...

- FO was given a pass for missing on Dak cause of his dui ... EVERYONE on here except for maybe one or two of u BLASTED ME when i suggested we were MORONS if thats why we didn't take him ...

But that is what everyone of u said ...

- Today ... we just took a guy that basically failed his drug test at the combine .... and the pick is being APPLAUDED ... given a STANDING O ...

Can't wait to see the BS that rolls in now to justify it ... thats always worth a good laugh ...

VERS - roll with it .. *L* at it .. no sense letting other folks inability to have any sort of consistency when accessing anything brown ruin your reasons for coming here ... I know i won't ...

I wanted Hooker going in. Thought this guy would go in 2nd round actually. Hope he pans some gold for us.

I also wanted Hooker, and I was utterly dumbfounded when we traded back with him on the board waiting for us!

However, getting another 1st next year and still getting Peppers has me feeling a whole lot better this morning. I think this kid is gonna be a freak for us.

I'm kinda on board with this now ( wanted Howard at #12 )

I agree. I think most people would agree that Hooker would be a better selection than Peppers in a vacuum but I understand why the Browns couldn't pass up a first rounder next year.

I will say that I was frustrated the we traded out of the 12 spot.
Too many studs on the board. but..
when Foster, Peppers, Cook, Awuzie as well as a couple others were still on the board when we picked, I feel the trade was solid.

I like Peppers.

The dude is a football player. He will be good and I am more sure of his success in the NFL than Garrett's. I know we won't know anything for sure for a while but I am thrilled with last nights picks.

Go Browns!

I've said other places that Peppers' best shot to make the transition to the NFL is with Williams IMO. He loves that hybrid type player. It is important we draft a FS with range ASAP though

J/C. Great pick, I realize there are a lot of Malik Hooker fans on board, But, this guy was clearly the MVP for the Wolverine D. I am not a Michigan fan or a Buckeye fan, both were amazing defenses. Considering what we got and still landed a stud in a Need position, awesome job by Sashi and company. Greg Williams is gonna really have fun with this new toy. When former and current coachs love this kid, I trust their judgement. Great Day 1.

I don't like this pick. I only see him playing strong safety and I didn't think Ibraheim Campbell was doing THAT poor of a job. Maybe he'll make a little splash in the return game.

We could've very well selected a position of more need IMO. Just not feeling it. I mean... Hooker fell right into our bread baskets.

A so-called "dilute sample" can be lots of things. His agent said it was the direct result of them over hydrating the guy out of fears of cramping. That's plausible I guess. Those guys are all pushing their limits at the combines because draft spots are big bucks. The whole drug testing policy in the NFL is a circus.

I don't know of any real history while he was with That Team Up North that leads me to believe he's another Josh Gordon.

It's not a terrible pick and he was taken at about where many said he'd go. Seeing as how we picked up two solid defensive players in the first round I'm happy enough.

Joe Thomas has actually had some very interesting takes on dilute samples on Twitter lately. Apparently he's had some that have tested as dilute due to drinking too much water. They make him wait around and try again. I guess the kids at the combine only get one shot, though.

I had dilute samples in the military -- if you're actually properly hydrated (urine running clear & plenty), it's easy for it to happen.

Funny how people view the same thing. I LOVED the Peppers pick. He can play with a lber mentality. He returns punts, kicks and quite possibly is the best athlete in the draft. A Troy Palumalu type but a better athlete. Wow is all I can say.

If Williams utilizes Peppers to stop half the RBs who got outside on us last year he'll be worth the pick.

I am not a Peppers fan after he sat out of the 2016 Orange Bowl game. What would have been the biggest game of his career.

That move screamed "personality problem" to me.

Someone who loves football and is totally committed to football would have played that game no matter what.

And they would have played to win.

Michigan lost to Florida State 33-32.

The NFL Draft Geniuses had Peppers predicted to be drafted in the first round. I have to assume, I'm not the only one who questions Peppers' attitude.

But there he was, predicted to go in the first round by the geniuses. So that in and off itself, made him a good pick.

The Browns had an absolutely awesome first round yesterday.

Three first round picks this year and an extra First Rounder next year?

Unbelievably awesome draft. Right out of the movie Draft Day.

PS. Personally, I put the odds of Peppers ever becoming a Pro-Bowler at less than 10%.

Because he's a Brownie now, I hope I'm wrong.

I think Peppers is vastly overrated and I had a 3rd round grade on him, but I don't think he wanted to sit out that bowl game. I think they made him sit out. I saw camera shots of him before the game and he looked angry as all get out about not being able to play.

If he can help cover the WIDE OPEN tight ends that killed us last year, this is an instant upgrade.

https://twitter.com/MoveTheSticks/status/856853376918839297

the only reason, I don't like the pick is because I am weary of players with jack of all trades master of none qualities. coaches try them everywhere and it stunts their growth everywhere. They never really establish themselves at the one position to make them great.

Punt returner he is awesome. I would keep him doing that but on defense I don't know where he really fits. we will see what they do with him, they obviously have a plan, just don't know whether its a good plan or not.

At least with Williams we can point to a guy he had in the past and think about how Peppers will be used. Whether or not he can succeed in that role is a different question entirely.

5'11'' safety covering 6'4'' TE's? He will tackle the TE for a 1st down, that's for sure.

In Hue and Sashi's presser, they expressed that same point. Williams with history of those types of players and etc.

One thing is for sure, Jabrill is in a good opportunity with Greg and untapping and getting the most out of his potential, skill-set and etc.

I just listened to his conference call, the kid is bursting with excitement. Bursting.

Because he is very far from being a Troy P. kind of player. Troy was all about instincts, even in college, one of his problems was to over trust his instincts and disrupt the D. Troy was a very intelligent player, quite the opposite of Peppers.

The draw on Peppers is the lack of instincts and lack of football intelligence....

In a capsule, think of a dumb Troy P. Running around in the field like a "chicken"... That's Peppers...

Maybe a more athletic "dumber" TJ Ward, would be a better comparison

Peppers problem was he tried to do too much and was pry gassed most of the time. Once he focuses on one position and dedicates 100% to one spot rather than 30% over three spots he will be better than most think. You people complain about everything no matter what. Be glad we didn't reach for a crappy qb and let's play some ball!!!

I call BS. That is exactly who he is compared to. It is why Pitt was hot for him.

"COMPARES TO: Troy Polamalu, Pittsburgh Steelers (retired) -- Few players can match Polamalu's instincts, improvisation and flair for the dramatic but Peppers is close. He will occasionally frustrate with his over-aggressive style of play but like Polamalu, Peppers will make more big plays than he will ever surrender."

Love the pick and the player...

ANALYSIS

STRENGTHS Athletic and fluid in space with desired change of direction talent. Moves with the changing flow of a play. Willing to sacrifice body to honor contain against run. Jack of all trades. Can play slot, safety or linebacker in sub-packages in any given game. Won't hesitate to race downhill once he diagnoses run. Hits with as much force as he can muster. Has big closing burst. Runs plays down from sideline to sideline. Able to knife into gaps and make tackles for losses or disrupt runs. Has man cover talent and is physical enough to handle most tight ends. Has enough quickness to match receivers. Aggressively re-routes receivers. Capable blitzer who buzzes in from all angles. Electric return man with ability to charge up crowd and his own sideline with big kick or punt return. Has experience carrying and catching the ball and as wildcat quarterback. Could offer red-zone flexibility on offense.

WEAKNESSES
Scouts question his instincts and lack of ball production. Has just one interception and 10 passes defensed at Michigan. Slow to recognize construct of play and can be found playing through a straw at times. Needs better recognition and anticipation to become an improvising play-maker. Doesn't always trust his feet in coverage and will maul at the top of the route. Just a guy when asked to play deep safety. Slow to read and range until ball is in the air. Can be overzealous against play-action and drawn below his deep ball responsibilities. Too small for take-on duties at linebacker. Leads into tackles with ducked head. Opts to hit rather than wrap-up.


SOURCES TELL US "These comparisons to Charles Woodson are nuts. Both are really good return men, but Woody is one of the greatest playmakers of all-time. Peppers has one interception and I don't think he's ever forced a fumble. Michigan might move him around too much. He will really improve when he can lock in and learn a position." -- AFC Director of Scouting

NFL COMPARISON Eric Weddle

Gee. Being compared to Weddle and Polamalu is such a bad thing.

Not sure Peppers has the range Troy did

j/c:



https://twitter.com/JabrillPeppers/status/857963939610734592

Click to see the video.

Those dance moves are...

I would take an Eric Weddle type player ...

Link

"Sweet fancy Moses"

My comparison is to TJ ward, or a small Ray Maualuga, not a bad thing but not 1st round pick, and not in a team so lacking of intelligent football players.

Intelligence to me is a requirment in the safety/ILB position, not an option.

Youtube-Uninterrupted-Draft Diary-Jabrill Peppers

There is a link to a few videos with Jabrill. I'd embed them, but there is some language.

I can see how the "thermostat" thing could appeal to us.

LMAO

Are you questioning his intelligence, because Harbaugh feels differently than you, if so.
Quote:
Harbaugh said he's come across only two players with the ability to absorb and apply football knowledge quickly and at the highest level: Peppers and Indianapolis Colts quarterback Luck, whom he coached and developed at Stanford. Harbaugh said that -- despite the fact that Peppers, listed as a linebacker, has played virtually every position on the field except for the offensive line and defensive line interior -- there's no need to simplify things for him:

"No, I don't have to keep it simple. He proved that last year. I've seen very few athletes with the ability that when you show it to them on the white board or show him a clip, he will go right out to the practice field and do it better than anyone on the team. He's one of those rare guys.

Good is good, he's a BROWN now- helps in lots of areas-GO Browns!!!

Personally I love the pick. Not too many months ago Peppers was talked about as a potential top ten talent.

Can't deny he's physically gifted and has a ton of heart. I'm excited he's here.

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2017/01/a_gregg_williams_defense_5_thi.html

I re-read the article and compared it to what Harbaugh was saying about Peppers. The rationality behind the pick then made sense to me.

I still don't like the pick necessarily, but I can understand more now as to why they drafted him.

Wanna have 10 minutes of fun? Check out Peppers HS highlight reel:

Link

Just clicking -

Not happy with the pick, but not devastated either. I mentioned before the draft I had no interest in him.

He's a Brown, so he's one of "my guys." Hope to see why the hype. Hope I have to admit I was wrong.

We get it, you wanted Hooker.

https://twitter.com/AlbertBreer/status/858035297258491904

Especially for a guy who actually WANTED to add some weight to his stat sheet to meet the cookie cutter NFL standards.

I watched the Peppers in Cleveland video, and danggggggggggg is Chris Tabor pumped up for Jabrill. I do think he'll excel BIG TIME on special teams, but still I'm not seeing much else from Peppers.

But one thing is for sure, Chris Tabor seemed like the little kid that got everything he wanted on Xmas.

Hue looked pleased too.

For those that are trying to figure out what a Mark Barron type role is, do a Google search for "Moneybacker" , "Will Safety"(That's what Barron calls himself) or "Dime LB".

The nickle defense will be basically our base defense followed closely by the dime.

Williams mantra is basically Peppers job description. "See ball, find ball get ball." He will be expected to get a huge amount of tackles and a bunch of tackles for loss.

While he will be expected to cover RB's and TE's out of the backfield, his coverage responsibilities are the secondary part of his job. Check Mark Barron's PFF coverage grades. They aren't very good. There will usually be 4 or 5 other DB's on the field with greater coverage responsibility. He is just expected to be better than most LB's in coverage.

The downside of trading size for speed like this is that a power running team with a big back can wear you out. I would expect him to play less against teams like this.

I am less concerned about Peppers having the ability to do what Williams wants and more concerned whether we have the DB's behind him that will allow him to do it.

Intelligent and informative post.

Peppers is a talent - period.

The NFL loves this type of guy. Reminds of Palomalu. Who by the way really struggled at first.

Peppers is a football player and they will find many ways to use him.

The people that criticize him will find out when the season starts.

It's almost as if we should have drafted some DBs behind him to allow him to not be a liability.

You proved my point about how we view a player. He is more athletic than Palamaulu IMO. His instincts might be a little behind at this point but he is a rookie but that in no way takes away or adds to ones athletic ability. I would have to say from what I have seen and studied what scouts have said is contrary to what you say. As far as Intelligence...that is his STRONG suit. Again....this proves my point.

I didn't like Peppers before the draft and said so many times. I'm not going to start pretending that he is a good player just because we drafted him.

I do think he will flash and many fans will love the guy. However, I think he is very limited in terms of coverage and will be a liability in that area.

Like clevesteve, I don't get our not picking up a couple DBs and/or picking a CB or a certain FS high.

Picking Peppers is sort of the cherry on top of that complaint.

I believe we will be a primary 4-2-5 with a run to the ball philosophy. We wont really see a lot of 1 deep FS roles but more of a right side safety/left side safety quarters role.

I'm not sure what we'll be, but I am interested in seeing what Williams cooks up.

They must have some role in mind for Peppers, but I don't really think it's the same as Barron. I've heard Alexander's name mentioned a few times and he might end up in more of that spot.

Hue called Peppers a SS, and I thought I heard that someone from the Browns used a Blaine Bishop comp.

Peppers is a bit of an unknown because of the way Harbaugh used him. What I do know is the guy is a football player that plays with heart and intensity no matter what he is asked to do. On that front, scUM made him do all kinds of things that never let him really develop one solid positional skillset. Instead of complaining about it affecting his draft stock he just said ok and did whatever to help the team.

We need players like that. I am a DIEHARD Buckeye, but I have always respected this kids game. We got a good player here. Maybe not an All-Pro Safety or LB, but a player who loves the game and will do anything to help his team win. I love the pick. We need players like this on our young team.

They traded for a 1st next year, which will absolutely not be better than 12. Traded 12 for like 26, idiotic and sent them a 4th. ugh

No idea where Houston finish next year. Is Savage better than Brock? Will Watson shine? Many questions. They were 9-7 with inconsistent QB play but, solid defensive play. Could be worse, could be better. But, the package of 2 firsts/3 seconds and the other picks will certainly allow us to move up and get a guy we want.

Two first round picks is better than pick twelve by itself. That is not that hard to figure out.

Hypothetically. But ECAV isn't all it's cracked up to be.

You state that as a fact, but it's an opinion. Guys like Tim Tebow were drafted at 25. Guys like Bobby Carpenter were drafted at 18. Guys like Marshawn Lynch and Haloti Ngata were drafted at 12.

We can spin that a million ways.

All I know is this.............I had a 3rd round grade on Peppers and Hooker as the second best player in the entire draft.

To use your logic. It's not that hard to figure out who to take.

I'm sure the team has some proprietary system that makes a little more sense than that. With that said, you have to make the right picks.

Adams was my 2nd ranked player. Hooker was in my top 7. I can't factor in the injury since I don't have the insight, none of us do.

Reading the detailed report from Mike silver , which was excellent, I think it's very clear Hue wanted Hooker, but they had a high grade on Peppers and hoped he would fall.

I'm also certain Williams was high on him. And while you wanted continuation with our Def coordinator.... I gotta say I loved what he said to MG and Peppers .... And the txt from Bruce Smith was special. Hope u are feeling at least a little love for Williams after an episode like that..... And we'll see who was right about peppers. The first round pick next year is for sure nice and of value, but peppers does need to be a starter and a GOOD player for this to pan out as the FO hoped.

I hope Williams does well w/the Browns because that would make my team better.

However, I despise the dude. I think he is a punk who talks tough. I played for guys like him and coached w/guys like him. Guys who couldn't fight their way out of a wet paper bag, but talk tough to players and anyone else who will listen.

It's fake. It's lame. It's pathetic. I'm an old man, but I'd whoop his punk ass.............guaranteed!

If someone asked me if I could hit a home run in a major league stadium on one swing, I would tell them no I cannot do that. If the person asked me if I could hit a home run on ten swings, I would say no, but my chances would be better. If a person asked me if I could hit home run on one hundred swings, I would say yes because my chances would be better (for the sake of argument let's assume I'm an average ball player who does not fatigue). More swings at the plate increases the odds of hitting a home run. Getting more picks increases our odds of selecting a good player.

I've stated on here countless times that picking NFL players is hard. If you are bad at picking players (Thomas Dimitroff recently said that the Falcons did a study and determined only 56% of first round picks end up starting), then you should want as many chances at picking players as possible. Thus the trade down. In trading down every year our front office is acknowledging that picking players is very hard.

While it seems like Hooker will be a great player (I wanted him too, I stated as much in the draft day thread), there is a certain percentage chance that he is not a great player (or even serviceable). My guess is that the front office determined that whoever they picked at twenty-five and the first round pick in 2018 has a greater chance at being good than Hooker by himself (this was probably determined in the weeks leading up to the draft). Also, each player has their own lesser chance at being quality.

I also believe that the front office had input from the coaching staff on who they wanted and had an inkling they could get Peppers later in draft (Williams reportedly wanted Peppers, Tabor too). This type of collaboration with people who have been in the game a long time (the coaches), combined with the outside the box thinking of the front office can create a very good football team if given time.

.

The world might be full of flakes and fakes. And Williams might sound like some you've known. That doesn't mean you know him. And when you read comments from past players and when you hear a HOFer, Bruce fkg Smith giving him love and friendship, to me it sounds like there's much more there than being a loud a.ho!e. . . . Whether u can kick his ass, I don't know and I hope I never find out !

We all have our opinions and that is fine.

I liken it to buying a product. I am the type who prefers buying quality products that provide great performance and last a long time rather than purchasing cheap products that don't work correctly and need replaced not too far down the road.

In the end they drafted the players they felt fit what the coaches wanted. I say just let it play out. I really wanted Allens so I hate that we did not pick him BUT we had a glaring need at SS. We picked up a first and filled a major need with a good player that our DC WANTED. I for one am excited to see how this new defense improves.

I'd rather have Beckham than Johnny AND Gilbert.

Trading down from 12 was incredibly dumb. After reading the reports I'm convinced Sashi was flexing some muscle, letting everyone know who was top dog in the organization.

I can get on board with more draft picks equals better chance of success AFTER the first half of the first round when all the blue chip guys are gone. That's not what happened here. We had blue chip guys staring us in the face but we always have to be the smartest guys in the room.

We will just have to wait and see if Peppers plus Houstons first next year is better than what the colts get out of Hooker. I really liked hooker but I cant complain about them passing on a player that wasn't able to work out for them due to a medical.

I really think the interesting one to watch is OJ Howard vs Njoku. I loved Howard but man Njoku has some mad athleticism.

We could have had OBJ after the trade down.

The problem with the draft is that you don't know which product you are buying a lot of the time.

You say this like we know that players picked later in the draft will not be blue chip players.

They traded 12 for 25 and a pick that will be between 1 and 32 next year. Also, we didn't give up a 4th in the deal.

I think a major reason they did the trade is the injury concerns. Hooker and Allen have injury/medical concerns and that has to factor in. Obviously our draft approach is to accumulate draft picks as well, so I'm sure that played a role as well.

The thing is that when you increase the number of tries your bat is getting thinner, so in your example you get your 100 tries but with a straw not a bat....

..OJ Howard vs Njoku...

I had Howard as my #12 pick , crazy about his potential in the Pro's ..Guess I was way different than most boards , as I had Njoku as my second TE .. Amazing athlete with huge up side ..

PS , Had Obe ( conn ) at #52

I don't know. They still don't have a QB, but their D should be able to win 4-5 games alone. Just to broad brush where the Texans finish, I'd say that pick will be from 10-20.

Unless some people get hurt.........

Watt has back problems. Clowney has shown injury issues in the past. That Bouye guy is gone. Crennel is a great coordinator, but injuries happen.

We could get a top 10 pick from the Texans next year in that 1st round.

Not to toot my horn but if you guys remember I brought obj to light on here when he was still a 4th rounder and I've never came close to pimping a prospect more since. Y'all are bumming me out

I think a better example would be fatigue. A straw would imply a later pick wasn't valuable at all. Not on either side just thought it'd make more sense.

Defense is very key but I think they were very lucky to get the wins they did being so one dimensional and without watt. With no offensive progress I don't think they could replicate That luck

Could be....though I don't plan on injury. Hard to predict those. At any rate, agreeing with you, I think the chances of it being in say the teens or better are better than it being in the 20's.

Peppers was Williams choice...btw I don't think Hooker is a SS. But here is what we can expect from Peppers the Williams "Monster" position.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FUQYW7Od2XQ

Oh and excuse the vocabulary in the music...mute if you watch it with kids...heck mute it if the words offend you...lol

you know if Deshaun Watson has an Andy Dalton quality season next year they could easily make the AFC championship game or possibly the Super Bowl. That team is stacked.

That's a pretty big IF

idk that's like asking him just to be average in every way possible. Much better odds than parlaying all their injuries into one season.

lol, I disagree.

Watson doesn't strike me as an NFL QB. When you look at his whole body of work (and not just the "big games"), he often was carried by his defense.


We've seen many winners in college football. Guys like Tim Tebow. And they never were as good as Andy Dalton.

Dalton isn't a superstar, but his "average" is something I don't think Watson will achieve this year.


EDIT: All in all, I think it's much more likely, that JJ Watt (coming off back problems) and Clowney who went through injuries in 2014 and 2015, plus the loss of AJ Bouye, and Deshaun Watson not being good is more likely to compound to a pick below 20.

yeah and if my pig had wings it could fly.

The kid will not be ready to play next year. Not enough for them to win games, their D is pretty awesome though but their division is getting tougher. They very well could be 8-8 or less.

jmho

In my rankings we took Myles Garrett right where I thought we should take him. We took Peppers 4 picks lower than I thought he would be taken at #21. We took Njoku 1 spot higher than I had him listed at #30. (I had him going to Pittsburgh.)

Unless they finish in the top 9 next year with a new QB, the trade that we made for a second #1 pick works on the trade chart.

The odds of failing with any pick in the NFL are high. Even in the first round, there are tons of failures. Does anyone remember Tony Mandrich, Ryan Leaf, Aaron Maybin or Steve Entman?

Mandrich wasn't just a sure thing when he was drafted. People had him pegged as a future HOFer.

I did have Hooker at #7 on my draft board, but I don't have access to his medical records. He fell for a reason because a lot of teams needed a safety above us in the draft.

Mathematically, it's pretty easy to prove that the bat isn't thinner, it's thicker.

If I were the GM, I probably still would have taken Hooker but I certainly can't throw stones at FO for the value that they got with these picks.

Dak and Russell Wilson were not ready also....

I have no doubts that Watson's command of the huddle will allow him to be successfull in his first year.

Dak had the best O-Line in football and fit into a team great. He figured out the Cowboys Offense quickly

And Russell Wilson was a far different QB than Deshaun. He played in different offenses too.

We don't know how Watson will do. Clemson's offense is not like the NFLs. More than likely, there will be growing pains.

Do you wish me to list 100 that weren't...was does that have to do with the price of tea in China?

How come everything is in teenie tiny font size???

Watson sucks.

If we would have drafted him even at 52, I would have been upset.

+1 he's honestly the only qb I didn't want

I am so happy we passed on Watson ...

I didn't want Watson in the 1st round. But to say not at #52 is a little mind bending. I view him as good as someone like Bridgewater who was at least adequate for the Vikings. Watson is a little thicker and more durable and one quality you can't deny is his leadership of his team. I don't see the same high ceiling as Trub, Mahomes and Kizer - but he's also less risk imo than Mahomes or Kizer.

.... anyway I thought this was a Peppers thread?

I was 100% on board with that. I did not want him anywhere. I got nervous when he was there at 12.

I like Watson, but not for Cleveland. It will take a tough son of a gun to right the QB position in Cleveland. For whatever reason, our QB's always get mauled. Watson doesn't have the size to take the hits our division unleashes.

Watson may have some success in the league, especially playing most of his game in a warm environment. He may have some success like Teddy Bridgewater.

j/c:

A few points:

--Dak does not get enough respect. How did Dallas do the previous year w/that same great OL when Weeden and Cassell were the qbs? I thought they won something like 4 games? Am I wrong about that?

--Are posters really pretending that they preferred Kizer over Watson BEFORE the draft? Hmmmmmm.........I'm not the type to go back and look things up because I think that screams "loser," but I could have sworn that Trub, Watson, and Mahomes all got way more love from almost all y'all in the last few months. Something smells fishy. LOL

--Back to Peppers. He is the kind of player fans will like. He will dazzle on special teams. He will make a few big plays [similar to TJ Ward] and will also be a liability to our pass defense, which will not be recognizable to most fans. I hope I am dead wrong, but I think that was a terrible pick.

I certainly was higher on Kizer than Watson. You'll see in more than a few threads that I said that I thought Watson would be there in the 2nd round and I wouldn't take him then.

I think Peppers will be fine for the coverage responsibilities that he'll have which won't be a ton in his first year. We'll have 4 DB's behind him. We drafted him to get some speed in the box and to be a tackle machine, which I think he'll do well at.

Dep, I wasn't saying everyone and I believe you when you say you liked Kizer better than Watson..........but, it's not hard to go find that way more people wanted Watson than Kizer. There was even a thread about drafting him first overall.

We are going to have to disagree on Peppers. You say that he won't have a ton of coverage responsibilities. Okay. I counter with that being a problem. Why the hell draft a DB if he can't cover? I don't like DBs who can't cover and it is why I wasn't a fan of TJ Ward. They get to do a lot of cool stuff, but meanwhile, they compromise the entire defense because you can't count on them or even ask them to do what they really should be doing.

Im going to have to disagree with you, Verse. TJ Ward with elite returning ability is a FANTASTIC player that I would take on my team every day.

Lets also not forget that Peppers will bring some fire and leadership from the players side, the emotional heartbeat of the team. Very important.

That's fine. Debates on a message board are great. I respect that you disagreed respectfully.

Who knows who will be right down the road?

Well he'll probably get plenty of kickoff return opportunities this year.

Ouch. LOL

In a roundabout way, I was kind of agreeing with you about guys liking Watson. There's a guy like him every year that everyone thinks will be the next Michael Vick.

Peppers is going to be more of a LB than a DB, just like Mark Barron. He'll be lining up on the weak side of the field like Barron as well. So the TE is usually going to be on Collins side. So he'll have a second TE in 2 TE sets or a RB coming out of the backfield. He'll get worked into more coverage than that as time goes, but Michigan didn't do him any favors by playing him at LB and we'll have to work on his technique as we go.

He'll get 100 plus tackles his first season if he stays healthy and a bunch of tackles for loss and that is exactly what Williams wants out of him.

He is just a fast LB.

I was actually going to ask you this earlier Vers but now that it's brought up I guess I will.

Now I'm not going to be an apologist for peppers or say that he will improve his overall skillet. He has deficiencies.

We both felt the same about ward. I was never a fan. His missed tackles made me cringe. That said I would say where tj laid wood and missed tackles peppers has less thump and more security in his wraps. I think he also has quite a bit more speed and burst. I'd also say while he is a relative unknown as a coverage guy I can't say 100% that he can't develop there. I won't say that he will or that he's inept but it's a risk. It is promising that he was a cb initially.

So that said the tj comp is interesting. I didn't like him but if he missed less tackles, was more athletic and still showed room to grow as a coverage man well I bet I wouldve like him. I initially liked peppers. Did my hw. Still liked him. Let the heads infiltrate my mind and cooled. But when I revisited in early April having studied the other options, man, he may only be a tj ward but he also has a chance to be special. We need special. Does that not sound like a decent prospect for a late 1st especially in this scheme? If not, to each their own. He's not a gut I would've pumped but I heavily support this move.

In 2010 TJ Ward ran a 4.56 forty yard dash. Jabrill Peppers at this years combine ran a 4.46 forty yard dash.

Pred............good post.

I was unclear. Sorry about that.

I am not comparing Ward's and Pepper's speed, tackling ability, discipline, etc.

I was just comparing that both guys were/are a liability in coverage. That's it. Nothing more to it. Well, w/one amendment. Both make "flash" plays and many fans and media members only see those things.

And pred.........my biggest issue w/this pick is that we didn't take Hooker at 12. Hooker is a rare talent that can make the entire defense better, rather than having the rest of the defense, and especially the secondary, compensate for a DBs lack of ability to cover.

And even if you don't like Hooker...........guys like Allen [who so many on here loved and wanted over Garrett,] Howard [who so many were hoping for at 12,] Humphrey, and Jackson were all available.

The draft fell perfectly for us to get a dynamic player at 12 and we foolishly passed on that pick and ended up w/a DB who can't cover.

I'm so disappointed by this.

Greg Cossell says Peppers's best position is RB.

Ouch.

Don't remind me.

Came across this article earlier. Here's just an excerpt, but the whole thing is worth a look.



NY Post-Link

The Peppers with 10 PBUs and Adams only having 15 stood out to me when I read it earlier. Adams had 4 PBUs and 1 INT last year Link. Peppers had 1 PBU and 1 INT, but he had more TFLs and sacks Link

You don't really hear the same coverage knock on Adams, though.

There are some negative perspectives on the article, too.

I always thought hooker was terrible at tackling.. The Browns needs for stopping the run are in such demand. I feel we get a better run stopper and special teams player with Peppers than with Hooker.

Browns could use versatile Jabrill Peppers on offense

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000...pers-on-offense

Since drafting first-round safety Jabrill Peppers, the Browns have attempted to answer the question that no other team could: How will he be used?

"He's football player, a very dynamic player," Browns head coach Hue Jackson said, via the team's official site. "Obviously, he's going to play defense for us, but we'll find a role for him over there on offense. No question."

The term "mismatch player" has been thrown around an awful lot since the draft and creates the need to be cautiously optimistic for Browns fans. Is "mismatch player" just a rebranding effort for the "hybrid" player Browns defensive coordinator Gregg Williams had in Los Angeles? Safety-turned-linebacker Mark Barron is listed with the exact same height and weight as Peppers, though he made the transition from safety to linebacker and not the other way around. Will it end up being a similar role?

"We were really excited just to get a player that fits our scheme and the experience that Gregg has had finding players like Jabrill and making them successful," said Sashi Brown, the team's executive vice president.

Brown went on to say Peppers has "perhaps a dynamic play style and athletic ability that probably Gregg hasn't had in that position and the other guys he's actually turned into Pro Bowlers."

A look back at Williams' Pro Bowlers over the last decade -- Sean Taylor, Roman Harper, Darren Sharper, Jonathan Vilma, Robert Quinn and Aaron Donald -- doesn't provide much context. But I'm sure in Pappers' rookie year they'd take the production of Barron, who picked off two passes, broke up eight more, recovered a fumble, logged a sack and posted 90 solo tackles. Add in some returned kicks and a few trick plays on offense, and that's a Year 1, first-round value.

Freak alert

Based on combine measurables, Michigan's Jabrill Peppers is faster than Antonio Brown (Peppers 4.46 in 40-yard dash, Brown 4.57), quicker than DeSean Jackson (Peppers 1.54 seconds in 10-yard split, Jackson 1.55), and jumps higher than A.J. Green (Peppers 35-1/2 inch vertical jump, Green 34 1/2).

http://www.nfl.com/photoessays/0ap3000000800660/Eight-facts-for-the-2017-NFL-Draft

I think the rap on Hooker's tacking is far overblown. Furthermore, you rarely find true FS's anymore. By that, I mean guys who can range from sideline to sideline. They are so rare and so valuable.

Btw----------check out Peppers on this run play:



Good angle? Fought off block? Make tackle?

Free safeties always seem to get knocked for their tackling and SS's get knocked for their coverage. It just seems to be the way it is.

You are preaching to the choir on Hooker. A FS with his range makes all of the other DB's look better.

Vers, I had a 3rd round grade on Watson.

As far as the Pepper selection goes.
I'm going to let that play out before I jump to judgment.

No he wasn't a prospect on my wish list, but I can grow to like this pick if he meets the teams expectations on how they plan on using him.

A person can cherry pick plays from ANYONE'S career and make them look good or bad. Are you suggesting getting swallowed up in a power sweep makes him a horrible player? Tsk Tsk that is petty.

That's fine, my man.

Just conversating. Damn........that is not misspelled and it is a real word. LOL

Welcome to the board.

Not to worry, far beit for me to play gramer police. LOL

Just don't misunderconversate. That'd make you W.

Ah I see. I somewhat addressed that I just thought maybe it would help you understand others perspective by comparing to tj. I had hooker as my no2 so I'm right there with you. But you know my process probably by now. I value blue chip traits more than total skill sets in high prospects. I also value round 1 and 2 picks like gold whereas most people just top 15.

I was very upset we didn't take hooker or o.j. for that matter. I even thought the plan was to jump back up once 2 or 3 of my top 4 were gone(o.j., hooker, Allen, mcdowell,). That said based on the way I evaluate and value assetts jabrill+njoku+1st>hooker+33+106. Even with trading back jabrill was no 3 on my board.

If all else were the same I would've traded up for 25 to 18 for o.j., McDowell at 33 and Kizer unless jabrill, maye, or Williams fell, and sutton at 65. I would've lost my damn mind if we walked out with that draft

What is anyone supposed to do in this situation? Curtis just took his first step forward to the line of scrimmage. Michigan has 3 players on that side of the field and Ohio State has four blockers. Also shouldn't the strong safety have maintained his inside presence instead of following Jabrill to the outside. That's just good playcalling and a dangerous weapon.

All I can think of seeing that play is.

THANK YOU CLEMSON!!!

Thankyou, been lurking around for years. Finally decided to join the fray. I always appreciate good football conversations.

Ada boy!

Welcome!

You could argue that on that play, he gets outside and seals the edge turning the RB back inside to interior pursuit. But #25 took the wrong angle and failed to fill the hole and the inside pursuit didn't do it's job.

I don't know if that is what happened not do I know what he was supposed to do. Just offering another interpretation for consideration.

sorry. I should have put spoilers around it and a trigger warning

In my opinion the day Jabrill Peppers walks onto the field wearing a Browns uniform he will instantly be the team's best tackler. He tackles like he loves it. We will see what kind of coverage skills he has, but I believe we will love his sure tackling. Hope that rubs off on some of the other guys....

Here's hoping Greg Williams uses him creatively. Love to see the kid get some sacks! I love a good safety blitz!

No it's not Vers. You like Hooker so much you're willing to overlook it.

I like him too. As a center fielder. But loathe him as my last line of defense. It's all opinion.

Many are overlooking something here.

It's pretty obvious that we wanted to improve our RUN DEFENSE.

A QB has hindered our Offense for years. The inability to control running games has hindered this Defense for years.

Adding Garrett to Ogunjobi, Brantley and Peppers could solidify it. When we can hold teams to under 100 rushing YPG this Defense will have turned the corner. Peppers is a HUGE part of that.

Side Note. From previous years. What do you remember about Powell when at Ohio State?

Hooker's tackling issues are way overblown. He made plenty of very good tackles where he really broke down. People have shown a few where he took bad angles and then everyone acts like it was a huge issue. It wasn't. That is why I showed the video. I am not saying that Peppers is a bad tackler. I am saying these things happen in the course of a year.

Powell? I remember that he had good size. He made some nice picks. I remember him being a passionate player. I also remember that he missed a lot of tackles and got beat deep too often. I did think he would be drafted and was a bit surprised when he wasn't.

I don't think you guys are saying different things were all just too bullheaded to be wrong. Hooker actually has great technique at times. He breaks down and wraps as good as any s in the class. It's a consistency issue. Sometimes He doesn't extend, attack and bring his feet. He missed a lot of tackles but his tape suggest he can clean it up over time. It wasn't really a concern for me but to say it's overblown I think is wrong. I just think everyone views it black and white and it's not.

Just to add some stats to the argument/discussion about Hooker's tackling:

PFF tracks missed tackles, Hooker's results:
65th in tackling efficiency with 13 missed tackles

j/c

I was thrilled when it became apparent that we could get Hooker to go along with Garrett. I thought we'd be on Hooker like me on a Bud Light. Then we traded...which wasn't a shock other than Hooker was right there. I started reading more about the guy - if that's even possible - and seeing the comparisons to Ed Reed.

Their college careers are not comparable. Reed played S for four years at Miami...Hooker played one year at S and one at STs...but ONE year at S. It was a great one...but it was still ONE. Then he required surgery after that ONE season. That's when the trade down started to make sense to me...not saying I would have done that, but I get it.

Looking deeper into Peppers' college career...he basically had a nothing first year that ended with an injury and then had two productive, improving years after that...on a bad team. I still think I'd rather have Hooker straight up...but getting a #1 next year + Peppers lets me see that light.

Why must we bow down to DAK why is that important to you??? sometimes you confuse me.

Watson fell off my list completely when his velocity at the combine was recorded at 49mph. In the first round it was only Trubisky. At 33 Mahomes, Kizer I didn't even consider cause he was a 1st round QB I thought...we drafted him just where he belonged. Good upside, no rush to start him I like the pick where we got him.

Peppers I think you are totally missing the boat on him he is an excellent tackler and fits that Monster role of Williams...he was a top priority for Williams the FO accommodated him. The only negative I have is if this Regime is blown up and Williams D is no longer here...is this a player that just won't fit in?

I think his cover skills will get better with proper coaching,
I don't think he was asked to cover too often as a LB and was asked to attack a lot. I think it was a great pick...of course its a ying and yang thing I guess.

Just a guess but from what I've read JP sounds like a player that really fits GW system and that's why we drafted him. If that's the case he could turn into quite a player for us.

it'll be interesting to see what transpires between Peppers (and whoever we pick next year w/Houston's pick) vs Hooker

agreed. Peppers has to be happy to land with Williams IMO

I think Hooker's range works against him somewhat as far as tackling. Yes, he missed some tackles, but he came screaming across the field to get close enough to miss.

For all that I love Hooker, looking back at his season he may be a bit more of a straight line athlete than I really thought about. It would have been interesting to see his agility numbers.

He has the speed and explosion to see it, run straight to it, and go up and get it with the best of them, but I'm starting to wonder about the Ed Reed comp some. Yes, he's got the ballhawk factor, but the ways that they do it is somewhat different.

He's got a long way to go to catch up with the savvy Reed had. It'll be interesting to see how he develops.

I'm not sure how much help Hooker is going to get from his pass rush. Indy scooped up Mingo and Sheard at OLB.

Hopefully Peppers benefits from a ferocious pass rush with us.

Eo, like allways people tend to pick the info that validates theire prejudices (I'm also guilty)

Watch this video: http://www.espn.com/video/clip?id=19209620

ESPN sports science, velocity of Deshaun is 53,5 and is limited by is flat footed throwing motion (something he will get better for sure)


The combine values were not official values, but done by a guy with a blog, and were never validated by anyone.

Trubisky is QB that has problems in the huddle, and no extraordinary physical skills...

Too bad nobody will allow him to return them unless the kickers "misses" on the kick-off and only drives it 4=5 yards deep. Most kickers will be practicing on driving the ball through the uprights.

Actually, I wouldn't want him on kick off returns. To many get hurt in that role. Punt returns is another deal. He should get plenty of action there.

It may be premature(and wishful thinking) but we may now have in MG and JP guys who we now can build our D around. In DK we also may have a guy who we can now build our O around although we may have to wait a bit longer there. I have no misconceptions about the Browns but it looks like there may finally start to be some hope.

Since this is the Peppers thread I forgot to mention that:

21st in tackling efficiency with 6 missed tackles

Pet peeve of mine too....



this is pretty much what I guessed it would be in another thread...smh that the combine number is repeated by so many...

yeah most stats I go by the Combine...53.5 is not much either...consider Kessler gets some insults about arm strength here and I could of sworn, remembering, he was 55mph could be wrong on that cause I know that's Trubisky's as well.

Kessler gets "insults", as you call them, regarding his arm strength because he doesn't have a lot of it. They're not insults, they are opinions forged by watching him throw the football, without the brown and orange glasses on.

I also go by stats from the combine. I go by stats from the combine because they standardized and uniform across the board.

The "velocity" numbers from the combine does not come close to meeting combine criteria for measurement. They use a radar gun and test the velocity on certain throws during the throwing sessions. And the intent on those throws isn't even to throw the ball hard its to throw the ball with accuracy and placement and by all accounts Watson did that the best at the combine. While some QBs were throwing high velocity passes behind, late, off target to the inside of routes where the throw should have been outside etc.

Also, you can't compare Watson's true velocity scientifically calculated number to Kessler non-standardized radar gun (with a several mph standard variance).

You can also watch them throw and clearly see that Watson has a better arm then Kessler.

Anyhow it is what it is... ole weak armed Watson has been labeled by the media and despite all the actual evidence to the contrary the media wins.

I called a girl ugly today. I told her it wasn't an insult because I had watched her and forged my opinion based on what I saw. My black eye suggests otherwise.

Your opinion of her appearance has no bearing on her ability to deliver a right hook.

No questions about her arm strength!

I don't know if this has been brought up, but did anyone let Mr. Peppers know that he's a 'marked man' seeing he went to Michigan?

1. Lampdog...I've watched Kessler and I think you guys are incorrect about this weak arm...hopefully you will get to see how wrong.

2. Ed the clear picture you state about Watson is from college ball and you cannot tell via college ball with the players being slower. NFL CBs and DBs a ton of Interceptions...well a ton more of the ton he already threw...lol

3. Possibly they can fix Watson. If they don't he's going to have arm problems.

Thats all and back to PEPPERS. Here is an article well the Brown section of it from a former player named Bowen who writes for ESPN:

MYLES GARRETT AND JABRILL PEPPERS, DE/S, CLEVELAND BROWNS
Both of these first-round picks make this list because of the scheme and the coaching style under new defensive coordinator Gregg Williams. I played two seasons for Williams in Washington and saw firsthand how he works with rookies. Williams will coach these guys extremely hard and demand accountability in everything they do.
Some questioned Garrett's effort level in college, but I don't see that being an issue in Cleveland. Along with the multiple fronts that will allow Williams to create matchups for Garrett as a pass-rusher, Williams has a unique ability to get the most out of his players. And I can't think of a better coach to develop Garrett's massive upside as he makes the jump to the NFL.
With Peppers, the fit under Williams is ideal. The Browns' defensive playbook is going to be deep, loaded with multiple packages, personnel groupings and exotic pressures. Peppers can play that strong safety/hybrid role in a variety of nickel and dime sets that cater to his versatility. He will match up inside of the numbers, drop down as a rover and get home to the quarterback in Williams' blitz schemes, which create chaos on the field. Those concerns on Peppers' fit in the NFL will fade away once he gets on the field in Williams' defense.

I watched probably every throw Kessler made in 2017.
Yeah I think we're gonna see 'how wrong' I am, which I highly suspect will be 'not very'.

JMO.

Okay...I know you cannot be wrong...lol Everything has to be a fight around here. I'm just saying you will be surprised. You say you won't be...that's fine.

I ain't fighting. Are you fighting?
I don't argue man, I just state the facts lol!

Well, the facts are he hasn't made a televised throw (that I'm aware of) in 2017, so I don't know what you're seeing.

lol my bad. 2016 I obviously meant.

I know,

*shrugs* I have no idea what this means in relation to our discussion at all.

I made specific comments; but your post above doesn't directly refer to anything that I wrote in my last post.

I don't know what you mean when you say 'clear picture'. But I do know that his velocity scientifically calculated velocity was 53.5 which they said was similar to Sam Bradford.

'College players being slower' doesn't have anything to do with his velocity and even if it did it would apply to all college QBs not just Watson.

So in short I can absolutely 'tell' that his measured velocity was 53.5.

And I would further add that his velocity could likely improve with hard work and tweak lower body mechanics.

But I digress....on to Peppers

No I'm actually smiling and enjoying myself here.
Why I hate arguing rather than discussing it kills the mood for me. Stuff like stating just the facts when its actually opinion sometimes gets to me...lol

I think Peppers is a freak athlete that will be learning how to play Safety in the NFL.

I don't think its an overstatement to say that Peppers brings Troy Polamalu level athleticism to the S position (and he's bigger then Troy).

However Troy w didn't enter the league needing to learn the position and Troy had rare instincts...but Peppers natural talent is off the charts.

Peppers will have a lot to learn in order to play a traditional Strong and especially a Free Safety role.

But, the good thing about Williams defense is that it already features a role similar to the role he played at Michigan. Gregg plays a lot of sub packages (nickel/dime ~70) of the snaps. Gregg used "safety" Mark Barron as a "Linebacker" in those subpackages and imho Peppers can walk in and fill that role in Gregg's defense day 1.

The question for me becomes....can you get 1st round value from a Nickel Safety? or does he have to develop into a Centerfield Free Safety to justify the selection in the 1st? And will they even try to develop him as Centerfield FS?

I read/heard somewhere that Pepper's wants to be like Earl Thomas....so maybe that could be his eventual transition...start off as nickel S ala Mark Barron or Deone Buchanon and transition into a Center FS ala Earl Thomas or Malcolm Jenkins.

j/c

I didn't pay much attention to Peppers' measurables and stuff ... how does he compare athletically to the top safeties?

I've heard some people say he's a GREAT athlete, and I've heard some people say he'll struggle to cover

https://www.mockdraftable.com/player/jabrill-peppers?position=ATH

The above link doesn't allow you to compare Peppers to other safeties because he is listed as a linebacker, but you can compare him to every player if you list him as an athlete.

It is not the best measure of his athleticism, but it is at least something to go off of.

His measurable are fine. Great actually. It's watching him try to cover that makes us concerned about his being able to cover.

But was he really asked to cover a lot?

I feel a good coach finds a way to use his players talents, not try to force a player to fit a mold. It will be interesting to see how Williams uses Peppers

Yes he was. He was ok in man but really bad in zone from what I saw. He lined up at LB, at slot, and at safety.

JC: Sashi Brown on Mike & Mike this morning referred to Peppers as learning the position of Strong Safety. He'd be involved on Special Teams as well, kick and punt returns.


But the guy who he compared his role to was Roman Harper of the New Orleans Saints (when Williams was there). Does anyone remember this? You would figure Mark Baron would be the easy guy for Sashi to compare what he is hoping from him, but Sashi goes Roman Harper. The Saints main LBs from what I remember were like Jonathan Vilma and Scott Fujita. Not Roman Harper.

I don't necessarily think we'll see Peppers in some Mark Baron role, like he played last year with the Rams where they only had one other LB that played all those snaps, and no one else seemed to (Besides Baron & the other LBer (Ogletree))

I just watched his Ohio State, UCF, Hawaii, and Rutgers games. (OSU was the latest game on draftbreakdown, and I'd watched the other tapes previously [Wiscy/Penn St/Colorado])

I can't say that I saw good zone coverage, but I can't really say that I saw bad zone coverage either.

I did see him get beat in man a couple of times, but once was against Curtis Samuel who if given time will get free from basically anyone. The other was an in breaking route by Baugh when he was playing with outside leverage.

I think a lot of people correlate not seeing him do something with him not being able to do something which isn't necessarily true. I think he could surprise some people.

I will say he is definitely electric with the ball in his hands, and was the guy the offense accounted for on every play. I can see why Tabor was pumped about him.

I see him in a Polamalu-like SS role and maybe some big slot in dime. May need some time to hone his instincts in zone, but as far as aggressively attacking, he's got that down pretty well.

I remember the days of Roman Harper, just not his play, per se.... but, if I recall, those were their best years.

If I had to guess, I'd say that Sashi makes that comparison probably because that is how Gregg (excellent name!) views him.... so, yes, Barron is the easy recent comparison that everyone can plainly see, it is more likely that Barron is something Williams tried based on his experiences with Harper.


I just did a little digging, and here is an article on Williams' creative use of Roman Harper


Edit: ... and, nevermind..... I guess that article doesn't really say much, except that it does point to Williams first doing this hybrid thing with Harper, so he was clearly recapturing it with Barron. Being that it isn't his first rodeo in trying to do this, and that he has about a decade of working with it under his belt now, I'm gonna say that I don't have any worries about how well it'll work - I think he's going to have Peppers do just what he wants, and I think Peppers is bright enough and willing enough to learn, and he absolutely is athletic enough.

I think it's going to be fun to watch!

The scary thing to me is when guys say "he'll be a great returner" when we draft a guy in the 1st round. The return game is already as insignificant as ever, and it'll probably continue down that path.

If Peppers can start, be effective as a defender, AND be a gadget/return guy, then it's a great pick. But if he's not the former, I don't see the latter as being all that valuable.

I remember Harper. Pretty good player for Saints and Panthers. I think he even went back to NO last year????

I remember him as a pretty physical guy who got after it pretty good. Solid would be the word I use to describe him, but not a real good cover guy or one who would be a ball hawk.

I think Peppers' best asset is his ability on special teams and gadget plays. I have thought that for quite awhile and have claimed he was overrated as a defender for quite some time. I had a 3rd round grade on him. I believe steve had a 4th round grade on him.

Initially, I'm looking forward most to seeing him on blitz packages.

Yeah, I think he'll do well there. I also think he will make some dazzling plays that will have fans and media types drooling.

My concern w/him is coverage ability. I really didn't like in the first two rounds for any team, but the Browns already had perhaps he worst secondary in the league and now we might be asking them to do more things in coverage because JP won't provide much help in that particular part of the game. That's rough, especially considering it's a passing league.

I've been wrong before and will be again. I hope this is one of those times.

I would like to see him on field covering after being coached up on it and practicing it as he is now a Pro Football player and its his job. I don't think he got that much coaching on it as he was a LB in college they don't usually get too many reps for coverage. I fail to see the FINALITY of his coverage skills on his College play which was not what he was called on as his primary skill set.

#1 asset right now is him stopping the run and utilized in blitz packages for the pass game. I'm sure he will work hard on his coverage technique...he does not seem like a slacker.
jmho

Jourdan Lewis is the Michigan DB I wanted in this draft. He is smaller, but he is an outstanding leaper and a great cover corner. Of course, he ended up w/Dallas.

I will tell my son that actually on draft day I was touting the kid from Colorodo for him as he wanted CBs...this draft was deep. Very curious on the kid we moved up for... I know he has to get bigger.

There were so many good kids that we all wanted somebody that we just liked what we saw...I liked Garrett like just about most Dawgs...so that was an easy one...but I was one of the few who liked Peppers as he fits the description of who we want on our defense and I love the way he tackles...we don't get too many Safeties in our past who are good tacklers,
he's not just a banger he wraps well! The coverage techniques can be coached and if he works hard its something he could make into a strength after a couple of seasons.

The slot we got him at was perfect thanks to the Water thing.
jmho

there were three DBs from Colorado. Which one? Awuzie? Thompson? Witherspoon?

Awuzie...

Thanks Purp and Vers for the updates on Harper. I just don't remember him that well. I hated that Saints team that won the Superbowl (hated Williams too). I was a big Kurt Warner fan and felt like they pretty much ruined his career with how they kept on hitting him kinda late. Really pissed me off. They did the same thing to Favre, except, I don't like Favre as much as I like Warner


But I liked that article/analysis Purp and thanks for some analysis Vers. I just hope we don't use the guy as a LB. I'm thinking more as a SS like we did with Robert Wiffith and my main man TJ Ward. Hopefully Peppers can improve his coverage abilities, and hopefully we can find some FS to play high zone like Earl Thomas does, so that we can keep Peppers down in the box, running toward the ball and making plays (like Kam Chancelor)

EDIT: Thinking of that, I'm assuming that's how it went with the Saints. Darren Sharper playing FS Cover 1 up in Deeper zone with Harper playing in the box. Darren Sharper was a heckuva a player (and scum of a human it turns out), but that's what he did best. Play back, help in the zone coverage, and make the saving tackle if need be

Peppers reminds me more of a smaller Maualuga than a bigger Polamalu.

I think he's simmilar to TJ Ward, nothing stellar but could be solid FS if paired with a good/smart ILB.

Why are we always so caught up in player comparisons?

and why does everyone keep trying to stick him at FS?

Bingo.

Peppers' position depends on the situation.

Baron and Buchanon were both 1st round selections, so, yes you can get 1st round value from a Nickel Safety IMO.

if he turns into Buchanon, I'm happy

Maybe because they don't understand the responsibilities of the position????

I can't see him playing FS.

I must have missed it, but I haven't seen anyone suggest he would be a good FS. I think it would be silly to think so. I don't get the whole "what 's his position?" He's clearly a SS that might be able to play LB on obvious passing downs (ala David Fulcher from the Bengals a while back)

Posted by rasta:




And you do realize I was responding to a a comment from Purp, right?

I realize who you were replying to. I guess I was replying to that same post. Replied to yours to follow the sequence of comments.

I guess I did see that FS post but just took it as a typo. I think he meant SS based off my takeaway from his comment. Maybe he did mean FS as he typed. Guess I chose to give him the benefit of the doubt.

Wherever they put him I think he'll do well. He is a good athlete with skills who has a good attitude and is anxious to learn. With GW teaching him he'll be more than fine.

I disagree. I don't think he can cover.

Yet he will have to learn or he will become a liability.

I'm an intuitive person. My instincts say that Jabrill Peppers can be special.

My instincts say to be wary of him.

I hope you are right, but i am very concerned.

Watching Peppers play, I thought he was a special player who would fit well in a Greg Williams style Defense. Now, after living through the off field stylings of Manziel and Gordon, and hearing the speculation as to the reasons behind Peppers not signing his participation agreement, I am becoming more and more wary of a player I really wanted to see the Browns get.

I think I lean towards this side as well. Something doesn't sit right with him IMO.

Isn't Peppers agent Joey Bosa's agent too? If so, it explains tactics used.

IMO, Peppers is going to be a little difficult to sign. Jackson and Sashi expressed how they will play Peppers at multiple positions. I believe it will cost them negotiating a signing bonus.

If his agent is Bosa's, he will be hard to sign. Seems that Bosa held out almost until the 1st regular season game.

I would think Peppers being at 25 will be easier to slot his numbers, though we will probably have to wait until 24 and 26 sign.

No big deal, it is what it is. I would like to get him inked early, but if not, I won't lose any sleep over it.

The Chargers wanted to screw Bosa over. I doubt we will have a hard time getting Peppers to sign.

This post is going to be mostly for Vers. You've been very down on the peppers pick and I understand your perspective. Frankly your concerns were not something that could be proven otherwise so I totally agreed.

But I noticed recently you mentioned lack of coverage and I couldn't sleep so I went digging and found an interesting film session that I think you or any of you other guys might find educational or just intriguing. This guy was very vocal on pushing peppers out of the first round but I never saw his 2nd breakdown just before the draft. He admits he thinks his initial assessment was wrong. Peppers blew him away in position work in indy and made this youtuber return and rechart tapes that's such a rare thing in scouting that I think it's worth a look.
Peppers take 2

Thanks pred. I'll check it out.

I watched the video, and think the guy made some great points in explaining any coverage deficiencies.

I think he still needs to get better in coverage, but I mean what rookie doesn't have that challenge. Even vets are still perfecting their craft.

I think his film at Michigan needs to be erased in the sense that I hope our coaches don't over think his position. He's a strong safety. Simple as that.

Just watched it. Over 15 min. long.

Thanks for posting. It was a very good video.

The guy made a lot of sense, but there were a couple of things I disagreed with.

I don't see the good hips that he talked about and I think he would struggle as a slot corner in man.

Also, watch how slow his reaction time is when playing zone. Watch it w/your own eyes and not just listen to what the dude is saying. Go to the first pass play against Colorado. Probably around the 4:30 mark. Still feet are dead feet.

With that out of the way, I do like some of the things he does.

He:

1. is dynamic as a return man.

2. is going to be great as a blitzer.

3. is faster than I thought and pretty decisive.

4. can help on offense.

5. is a pretty good tackler

6. can play SS

7. will make dynamic plays.

Thanks again for the video. I enjoyed it.

Fantastic video. I enjoyed watching that and am excited to see the kid play for us. Thanks for sharing.

I enjoyed the video. I'm a little surprised that people are seeing it for the first time when the same video was posted by GratefulDawg on the first page of this thread. Thanks Grateful for posting it, and preditor for re-posting it

I'm a Buckeye, still, put me unabashedly in Camp Peppers.

I may be wrong but if you check out that play I think he had under responsibility
There's a guy rolling right for a dump. Either way it's nitpicking and I do agree that it's easily his biggest hurdle. He seems to always cheat towards the play rather than play his role in zone. Maybe it'll help having pros around him so he doesn't try to do too much.

I'd never want him full time slot like Mathieu I just like him in the position because it essentially shuts down the outside run and makes the O worry about a blitz. I think he has good hips, phenomenal for a ss, but compared to a starting cb I'd agree.

truer words never spoken

Fair point but, if one missed it the first time we are now 8 pages in so, it can easily be (and clearly was) overlooked.

Just to add.....

A lot of people don't even bother to read the thread. They'll just hop on and post when what they've posted has been posted right before them and claim they "just didn't see it".

Yeah, I think Peppers is good too.

It has happened to me that I will start a post, and before I hit submit, someone else submits a similar post.

and sometimes, they'll even post something even though it's been posted right ahead of them, too

And sometimes posters will post something that is almost exactly what a previous poster posted.

Sometimes it's almost like one poster is echoing another.

Or saying the same thing

Like a TV repeat.

A lot of times - a lot of the posts - are just like posts that have been previously made. Posts other people have made on the same thread. About the same topic. The posts are just like posts that were made before. They're very similar to earlier posts. They are posts that were like posts that appeared prior to the post that is being posted.

Never thought of that

I think I get the gist.

Not only that but often they don't even read the thread before posting.

Just in case anybody missed it. I think Peppers is going to be good.

That was a really good video.

I hope you are right, but I am still worried.

What's cool about it is, we WILL get an answer.

Quote above by Y:

"I hope you are right, but I am still worried."

lol (only if I really did)

Caught me off guard.

But you're right though. If guard dawg is right that he thinks Peppers is going to be good. That will really help the Browns. But I am a little worried too that he might not be really really good. I just hope they play him in the secondary.

And I agree with ddubia and texas. I think Peppers would make a good Safety. But I am a little worried.

I haven't read any posts in this thread, but can we discuss what position Peppers will play?

I think he fits our need at right tackle perfectly. It's already been discussed.

He's the ultimate hybrid player. He will play long snapper and holder...on the same play. LOL

I think he will play long snapper and holder... at the same time

LOL, I think that Peppers will be a work in progress on defense, but he could pay dividends immediately as a return guy.

This page made me laugh.

I think we finally have our long-term answer at QB.

Man, Peppers is fast....

Idk about long speed but I think he's our top closing speed player now.

And then kick the ball.

Peppers has the prototypical hips of a strong safety. But his hamstrings and wrists are more geared for the weak-side.

He has excellent shoe size for a nickel back.

I just hope Hue plays Peppers where he thinks Peppers is best suited.

So what are you thinking Rocky, Jos. A Bank? Lord & Taylor? Men's Warehouse?

I think he means next to the salts.

Naw, I’m just saying I hope Hue Jackson is going to evaluate the situation and the players and then think “What is the best way to use these players?”

And then act on those thoughts.

In a manner consistent with what he thought.

Hey, don’t laugh. We’ve gotten less than this in the past 23 years.

"I think Peppers is best suited for Strong Safety and it will be best for the team if he plays Strong Safety."

"Hey, Peppers, line-up at corner."

Has anyone seen, read, or heard anything about him from OTA's/Camps?

He hasn't been practicing.

Is there a joke in there somewhere? I don't get it.

There are pictures of todays practice showing him practicing on the home page.

Yes but his closing speed to the hotdog vendor is impressive

Great. Thanks for the update.

LOL tex.

I still don't get the shoe size thing. I feel dumb. Will someone please explain?

Think he was just trying to show how ridiculous it can get when you get caught up with what a player's measurables are rather than how he plays on the field sort of deal.

How I interpreted it anyways.

Okay.

I thought there was a joke in there that I couldn't figure out. You know....the shoe size thing. LOL

The shoe size quip just transported me back to all the Derek Anderson debates.

His shoes look great

He's been drinking a lot of water.

The best joke in there was:

"I just hope Hue plays Peppers where he thinks Peppers is best suited."

Like what's Hue gonna do?

"He is gonna be a superb Safety. Where do you think we should play him?"

I see him as a SS. Maybe a slot guy in the dime.