DawgTalkers.net
The Supreme Court Is Poised to Shred Its Credibility to Let Trump Rig the Census

By all indications, the Supreme Court is poised to let the Trump administration add a citizenship question to the 2020 census. The consequences of its probable ruling will last longer than Donald Trump’s presidency, well into the term of the next president, and possibly the one after that. Hispanics and immigrants will be undercounted, leading to overrepresentation in the House of Representatives and state legislatures of disproportionately white and rural regions. The result will entrench Republican power into the 2030s, depriving Democrats of representation in Congress and state legislatures, as well as electoral votes. States with large immigrant communities will lose billions in federal funding. Ultimately, the citizenship question is not some wonky dispute about proper census protocol. It is a dispute over who counts in America.

Here is the worst part: The Trump administration should have no legal authority to wreak this havoc. In his opinion blocking the citizenship question, U.S. District Judge Jesse Furman listed six separate ways that the administration violated the law in its effort to rig the census. Yet on Tuesday, the Supreme Court’s conservatives seemed prepared to reverse Furman and let the government include the question. To do so, these justices deployed credulity and hypocrisy in equal measure, abandoning their principles to reach the outcome desired by the Trump administration and the Republican Party. It was a very bad day for truth at the Supreme Court.

The genesis of the citizenship question is a notorious story of blatant deception, one that lay just beneath the surface of Tuesday’s arguments in Department of Commerce v. New York. Commerce Secretary Wilbur Ross, who oversees the Census Bureau, initially claimed that the Department of Justice asked him to add the question so it could better enforce the Voting Rights Act. In reality, however, Ross’ excuse was a lie: He asked the DOJ to send the letter because he wanted a reason to insert the citizenship question. Every expert at the Census Bureau counseled against it; all available data, they told Ross, proved the question would lead Hispanics and immigrants to fear the census. Because many would refuse to participate, the citizenship question would prompt an “undercount” of these groups.

From a legal standpoint, Ross’ behavior is puzzling: The Constitution mandates the “actual enumeration” of people, not citizens; a citizenship question only makes that goal more difficult to accomplish. From a political standpoint, though, the secretary’s behavior is perfectly rational. If Hispanics and immigrants are undercounted, blue states like California will lose billions in federal funds, seats in the House of Representatives, and votes in the Electoral College. Yes, some diverse red states, like Texas, will be affected too. But the burden will fall primarily on urban areas where minorities and noncitizens live—areas, in other words, that lean Democratic. Rural regions populated primarily by whites—that is, Republican regions—won’t suffer. These rural, Republican regions will gain seats in the state legislature, while urban, Democratic areas will lose them.

From the calculus of a pure power grab—constitutional commands be damned—Ross, then, had no reason to listen to the experts who counseled against the citizenship question, and simply overruled them. So he ran roughshod over a series of legal obligations meant to limit the addition of unnecessary questions to the census—rules laid out by Congress, which the secretary ignored. Thus, not only did Ross conceal the real reason for his action, but he also repeatedly broke the law in his mad dash around statutory roadblocks designed to keep gratuitous and counterproductive questions out of the census. (To give two of many examples, Ross missed the deadline to report a new census question in Congress, and failed to comply with a requirement that the secretary exhaust all other options for data gathering before adding “direct inquiries” to the census.)

The liberal justices spent much of Tuesday’s arguments trying to lay bare Ross’ falsehoods. Justices Stephen Breyer, Sonia Sotomayor, and Elena Kagan pushed Solicitor General Noel Francisco to acknowledge Ross’ duplicity, with mixed success. “A lot of your argument[s] just do not appear” in Ross’ explanation for his decision, Kagan told Francisco. “And the fact that” lawyers in the solicitor general’s office “can come up with 60 pages of explanation for a decision—that’s all post hoc rationalization—the question is, what did the secretary say? Where did he say it? When did he say it?” Kagan dismissed Ross’ justifications as “conclusory” and “contrived.”

Sotomayor echoed Kagan’s comment. “This seems like [Ross] thought of something,” the justice said. She then channeled Ross: “ ‘I want to add a citizenship question. I don’t know why, but this is a solution in search of a problem. I’ve got to find a problem that fits what I want to do.’ ” And Breyer cited Census Bureau expert John M. Abowd five times to drive home the point that all evidence suggested a citizenship question would impair the “actual enumeration” of people in America.

Then New York Solicitor General Barbara Underwood approached the lectern to argue against the citizenship question—and suddenly, after taking a beating for 35 minutes, the Trump administration’s fortunes turned. Chief Justice John Roberts asked why “it wouldn’t help voting rights enforcement,” since “citizen voting age population is the critical element of voting rights enforcement, and this is getting citizen information.” Justice Brett Kavanaugh then told her that “the United Nations recommends that countries ask a citizenship question on the census. And a number of other countries do it. Spain, Germany, Canada, Australia, Ireland, Mexico ask a citizenship question.”

“The question,” Kavanaugh asked, “is, does that international practice, that U.N. recommendation … affect how we should look at the inclusion of a citizenship question in this case?” He also called Ross’ decision a mere “policy judgment” and asked why the court should halt it in light of conflicting “policy considerations.” Justice Neil Gorsuch also pointed out that “virtually every English-speaking country and a great many others besides ask this question in their censuses.” And Justice Samuel Alito hypothesized why the citizenship question suppressed noncitizens’ responses.

“Citizens and noncitizens differ in a lot of respects other than citizenship,” Alito told Underwood. “They differ in socioeconomic status. They differ in education. They differ in language ability.” Sure, maybe noncitizens are afraid of a citizenship question because they’re afraid of being deported. But maybe they’re also afraid of it for mysterious reasons we can never fully understand!

What’s startling about Roberts, Kavanaugh, and Gorsuch’s questions in particular is that they seem to betray fundamental principles of the court’s conservative bloc. Gorsuch has disclaimed reliance on international law, proclaiming: “We have our own tradition and our own history. And I don’t know why we would look to the experience of other countries rather than to our own when everybody else looks to us.” Kavanaugh, echoing a Republican mantra, has argued that international law has virtually no role in the American legal system outside of treaties. (Even more disturbingly, the two justices seem to have derived their international law questions from an amicus brief filed by Eagle Forum, a fringe reactionary group founded by Phyllis Schlafly.)

Meanwhile, Roberts, who seemed so deeply concerned about the Voting Rights Act on Tuesday, has written and joined opinions gutting it of its force. And deference to executive agencies? Seriously? The contemporary conservative judicial philosophy, touted by Gorsuch and Kavanaugh, is rooted in opposition to agency deference. Yet the conservative justices want to defer to an unelected bureaucrat’s manipulation of the census. A greater hypocrisy is difficult to envision.

To uphold the citizenship question, the court’s conservatives will have to feign respect for the Voting Rights Act, international law, and agency deference—three of their greatest enemies in any other context. In the process, they’ll have to pretend that Ross’ absurd pretexts, his many lies and obfuscations, are believable, even reasonable. And they appear willing to do exactly that to let Ross and Trump have their way. Such a decision would be an embarrassment to the judiciary, evidence that a majority of the justices place the goals of the Republican Party above the truth. A partisan ruling in this case would diminish the court’s legitimacy and fuel support for the addition of more justices. If SCOTUS abandons any pretense of neutrality and throws its weight behind the Trump administration, court packing may come to look like the only sensible option to save democracy from its wayward guardians.

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2019/04/supreme-court-census-case-citizenship-question.html

Trump is the hill the GOP chose to die on...
I don't know who this Ross is, but it's clear as day that its the Left acting with duplicity.

They claim to be concerned with Voting Rights, making sure every vote counts... but clearly by "every" they don't actually mean "every". How can they? By not allowing an accurate count of citizens, people who have a legitimate political Right and say, they are in effect gerrymandering the House of Representatives. By continuing to advocate for the artificial inflation of regional populations in order to benefit from re-apportioned Representation, they are essentially suppressing the vote of a citizen from another State!
Wow. That writer isn't biased at all, is he?

Why is, "are you a citizen" such an inflammatory question. I thought the point of the census was to get an accurate count,not to hide information.
It's just the lefts outrage of the day. They look to twitter to find out what the outrage is and then these silly articles to find out what their talking points are supposed to be. Once the little lemmings know what to be outraged on, then proceed to disseminate these ineffective points far and wide on social media so all their minions are drooling about the same points.

You can set your clock by this detritus.
Originally Posted By: Tulsa
It's just the lefts outrage of the day. They look to twitter to find out what the outrage is and then these silly articles to find out what their talking points are supposed to be. Once the little lemmings know what to be outraged on, then proceed to disseminate these ineffective points far and wide on social media so all their minions are drooling about the same points.

You can set your clock by this detritus.


Exactly I agree. And that’s exactly how trump dictates his talking points to Fox News for his rage riders to deliver to the GOPer minions and sheep. It’s all the rage today to be outraged.
It's seems you missed the entire point of the census. But I'm not surprised. It's to check the population of cities, localities and states. The amount of people in a given area.

To try to dissuade people from filing the census only acts as a tool to make it appear areas have less people to reduce funding to those areas. That's not a census. That's a political tool.
One purpose of the census is to divide the house seats by population. Furthermore as with any Census Bureau survey the data provides a beginning for allocation of Federal resources.
Originally Posted By: 40YEARSWAITING
One purpose of the census is to divide the house seats by population. Furthermore as with any Census Bureau survey the data provides a beginning for allocation of Federal resources.



If you take an honest look at the makeup of the governments of Sanctuary States and Cities, you will see it is nothing more than a Liberal/Progressive gaming of the system to increase power in Congress and receive more of other people's money.
All at the expense of the American Citizen who foots the bill.
Originally Posted By: 40YEARSWAITING
Originally Posted By: 40YEARSWAITING
One purpose of the census is to divide the house seats by population. Furthermore as with any Census Bureau survey the data provides a beginning for allocation of Federal resources.



If you take an honest look at the makeup of the governments of Sanctuary States and Cities, you will see it is nothing more than a Liberal/Progressive gaming of the system to increase power in Congress and receive more of other people's money.
All at the expense of the American Citizen who foots the bill.




Quote:
It's seems you missed the entire point of the census. But I'm not surprised. It's to check the population of cities, localities and states. The amount of people in a given area.

To try to dissuade people from filing the census only acts as a tool to make it appear areas have less people to reduce funding to those areas. That's not a census. That's a political tool.


I view both of these statements as having a lot a truth to them.
Maybe when a vote in Wyoming isn't worth the same as four votes in New York in the electoral college you can convince someone of that.

Quote:


The average electoral vote represents 436,000 people, but that number rises and falls per state depending on that state’s population over 18 years of age. (The map above shows the population 18 years and older per electoral vote by state.) The states with the fewest people per electoral vote, and therefore the highest “vote power,” are Wyoming, Vermont, and North Dakota. In Wyoming, there are 143,000 people for each of its three electoral votes. The states with the weakest votes are New York, Florida, and California. These states each have around 500,000 people for each electoral vote.

In other words, one Wyoming voter has roughly the same vote power as four New York voters.

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_p..._50_states.html
Originally Posted By: BpG
Originally Posted By: 40YEARSWAITING
Originally Posted By: 40YEARSWAITING
One purpose of the census is to divide the house seats by population. Furthermore as with any Census Bureau survey the data provides a beginning for allocation of Federal resources.



If you take an honest look at the makeup of the governments of Sanctuary States and Cities, you will see it is nothing more than a Liberal/Progressive gaming of the system to increase power in Congress and receive more of other people's money.
All at the expense of the American Citizen who foots the bill.




Quote:
It's seems you missed the entire point of the census. But I'm not surprised. It's to check the population of cities, localities and states. The amount of people in a given area.

To try to dissuade people from filing the census only acts as a tool to make it appear areas have less people to reduce funding to those areas. That's not a census. That's a political tool.


I view both of these statements as having a lot a truth to them.


Counting the people of an area is important and people should not be dissuaded from being counted. We need an actual count of who is to be considered for Federal monies and who is to be considered for Congressional seats. Illegal Aliens, Undocumented residents, Documented Visa holders and visitors should not be considered for either but should be counted nonetheless.
In that case there should be different ways of counting each. But that's not what's being proposed.
The simple minded solution of "Just Don't Count Them" doesn't work for America. Citizens alone are entitled to the benefits of their own tax dollars and seats in Congress.
Well how many illegals will you know to complain and whine about then if they're not counted?
“The left”

I swear you conservatives will find a way to be scared of your own shadow. What a bunch of cream puffs.

The left....the lefties.... THE LIBERALS *thunder strikes*.

Y’all the kind of dudes who need to be coddled by your wives during a scary movie instead of the other way around.
Originally Posted By: PitDAWG
Maybe when a vote in Wyoming isn't worth the same as four votes in New York in the electoral college you can convince someone of that.

Quote:


The average electoral vote represents 436,000 people, but that number rises and falls per state depending on that state’s population over 18 years of age. (The map above shows the population 18 years and older per electoral vote by state.) The states with the fewest people per electoral vote, and therefore the highest “vote power,” are Wyoming, Vermont, and North Dakota. In Wyoming, there are 143,000 people for each of its three electoral votes. The states with the weakest votes are New York, Florida, and California. These states each have around 500,000 people for each electoral vote.

In other words, one Wyoming voter has roughly the same vote power as four New York voters.

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_p..._50_states.html


I try to stay out of this pit, but for some reason I read this thread.

The Electoral College is designed to prevent small states from being overlooked in the Presidential race. The number of electors is not based on population alone, but rather is based on the number of Senators (2 per state) and Congressional Representatives. (based on population) These small states don't get a landslide of electors, but rather receiver the same number of total votes they get combined in the House and Senate.

This policy will prevent states that 'load up on" illegal immigrants from using them to artificially inflate their number of Congressional Representatives,. and Presidential Electors. California, for example, has roughly 2.2 illegal immigrants. They cannot vote, but they do give California roughly 3 extra Congressional Representatives, because these seats are based on population, and if there is no way to back out the illegal portion of the population, they all get counted to allocate Congressional seats. (and Presidential electors) This devalues the votes of citizens in other states. .

Many Democrat controlled states are also in the process of trying to have their their electors go to the winner of the national popular vote, regardless of how their state votes. In other words, if one of their states were to vote 99.1% Republican, and the Democrat won the national popular vote, they their electors go for the Democrat. (or visa versa) I am not sure how this is somehow better than the current system.

Anyway, just a couple of thoughts. Make of them what you will.
Originally Posted By: Swish
“The left”

I swear you conservatives will find a way to be scared of your own shadow. What a bunch of cream puffs.

The left....the lefties.... THE LIBERALS *thunder strikes*.

Y’all the kind of dudes who need to be coddled by your wives during a scary movie instead of the other way around.

Don't you have a Kate Smith statue to go p*ss on?
who is kate smith?
Sorry, I thought you were up on current events.
California is a pretty bad example since their votes and the state of New York's vote per person only count as a fraction of what a voter in a state like Wyoming's count.

If you want to look at it more realistically, it seems like they want every single vote in liberal states to be worth even less than the 3-1 and 4-1 ratios they already are.

When a citizen in your own state has one forth of the voting power that someone does in Wyoming, adding a single congressman in your state won't "load up" anything. But losing one will even further devalue the worth of a single vote by an even greater margin. Which is exactly what the intended goal is.
Originally Posted By: PitDAWG
California is a pretty bad example since their votes and the state of New York's vote per person only count as a fraction of what a voter in a state like Wyoming's count.

If you want to look at it more realistically, it seems like they want every single vote in liberal states to be worth even less than the 3-1 and 4-1 ratios they already are.

When a citizen in your own state has one forth of the voting power that someone does in Wyoming, adding a single congressman in your state won't "load up" anything. But losing one will even further devalue the worth of a single vote by an even greater margin. Which is exactly what the intended goal is.


Thats because unlike what Swish said about GOPers California and New York are a bunch of Girlly Men who vote the way their wives tell them.
Funny how the guy and his pals who spent 3 years destroying their own credibility post a thread about destroying credibility.
The census is to calculate US citizens not people who are here illegally and who should not be counted towards a state's legal representatives. Only legal citizens should be counted towards the census.

Then again liberal states love to use illegal aliens to cast fake votes to begin with so that criminals can help to run their states. Then they wonder why they keep falling apart.
Originally Posted By: Razorthorns
The census is to calculate US citizens not people who are here illegally and who should not be counted towards a state's legal representatives. Only legal citizens should be counted towards the census.

Then again liberal states love to use illegal aliens to cast fake votes to begin with so that criminals can help to run their states. Then they wonder why they keep falling apart.


Show me that in the constitution.

Or here is this:

The U.S. Constitution empowers the Congress to carry out the census in "such manner as they shall by Law direct" (Article I, Section 2). The Founders of our fledgling nation had a bold and ambitious plan to empower the people over their new government. The plan was to count every person living in the newly created United States of America, and to use that count to determine representation in the Congress.

https://www.census.gov/programs-surveys/decennial-census/about/census-constitution.html

But if you seen it on Fox News it must be true.
Originally Posted By: OldColdDawg
Originally Posted By: Razorthorns
The census is to calculate US citizens not people who are here illegally and who should not be counted towards a state's legal representatives. Only legal citizens should be counted towards the census.

Then again liberal states love to use illegal aliens to cast fake votes to begin with so that criminals can help to run their states. Then they wonder why they keep falling apart.


Show me that in the constitution.

Or here is this:

The U.S. Constitution empowers the Congress to carry out the census in "such manner as they shall by Law direct" (Article I, Section 2). The Founders of our fledgling nation had a bold and ambitious plan to empower the people over their new government. The plan was to count every person living in the newly created United States of America, and to use that count to determine representation in the Congress.

https://www.census.gov/programs-surveys/decennial-census/about/census-constitution.html

But if you seen it on Fox News it must be true.

As I understand it, they are still going to be counted, they are just going to be accurately counted as non-voting, non-citizens...
Originally Posted By: DCDAWGFAN
Originally Posted By: OldColdDawg
Originally Posted By: Razorthorns
The census is to calculate US citizens not people who are here illegally and who should not be counted towards a state's legal representatives. Only legal citizens should be counted towards the census.

Then again liberal states love to use illegal aliens to cast fake votes to begin with so that criminals can help to run their states. Then they wonder why they keep falling apart.


Show me that in the constitution.

Or here is this:

The U.S. Constitution empowers the Congress to carry out the census in "such manner as they shall by Law direct" (Article I, Section 2). The Founders of our fledgling nation had a bold and ambitious plan to empower the people over their new government. The plan was to count every person living in the newly created United States of America, and to use that count to determine representation in the Congress.

https://www.census.gov/programs-surveys/decennial-census/about/census-constitution.html

But if you seen it on Fox News it must be true.

As I understand it, they are still going to be counted, they are just going to be accurately counted as non-voting, non-citizens...


Would you check that illegal box in Trump's Murica? Can't count those who are scared to be counted. A lot of families with children that are citizens, maybe one adult legal and the other not... wouldn't count on ICE not getting these details.
Quote:
Would you check that illegal box in Trump's Murica?

You shouldn't be comfortable checking it in anybody's America.. because you are violating the law.
Originally Posted By: DCDAWGFAN
Quote:
Would you check that illegal box in Trump's Murica?

You shouldn't be comfortable checking it in anybody's America.. because you are violating the law.


Violating the law? Big deal. The POTUS does that 10 times a day or more.

I'd break bread with an illegal about a 1000 times faster than with Trump.
Originally Posted By: OldColdDawg
Originally Posted By: DCDAWGFAN
Quote:
Would you check that illegal box in Trump's Murica?

You shouldn't be comfortable checking it in anybody's America.. because you are violating the law.


Violating the law? Big deal. The POTUS does that 10 times a day or more.

Then prove it and lock his arse up... STOP DEFLECTING.
Originally Posted By: DCDAWGFAN
Originally Posted By: OldColdDawg
Originally Posted By: DCDAWGFAN
Quote:
Would you check that illegal box in Trump's Murica?

You shouldn't be comfortable checking it in anybody's America.. because you are violating the law.


Violating the law? Big deal. The POTUS does that 10 times a day or more.

Then prove it and lock his arse up... STOP DEFLECTING.


Doesn't matter if you prove it or not, he'll never get in trouble because the GOPers keep him above the law. It's just poor hard working people who get screwed in this country. Mostly people of color.

This whole census question is nothing more that GOP gerrymandering on a new level.
jc

i guess im struggling to understand why trying to figure out how many people, and who, are in this country is a bad thing

we need an update to the roster. obviously we will never get a true number on how many illegal immigrants are in the country, but we should absolutely see a hard number on how many americans/green card holders we have.
Agreed.

If we don't have an accurate as possible Census, why have one at all?

Just spin the big wheel and we can all guess.
Quote:
This whole census question is nothing more that GOP gerrymandering on a new level.

Then what is wanting to extend the vote to illegals? To incarcerated felons? etc?
Originally Posted By: DCDAWGFAN
Quote:
This whole census question is nothing more that GOP gerrymandering on a new level.

Then what is wanting to extend the vote to illegals? To incarcerated felons? etc?


Haven't heard anybody say that illegals should have voting rights. The incarcerated felons thing is a constitutional debate. Personally I don't care either way because inmates will vote across the board so that's not gerrymandering IMHO.
Why take politics into the prison system?
Things are violent enough there.
Why have convicted felons fighting over their favorite candidates?

This place is a prime example and most of us are not convicted felons, yet.
Quote:
Haven't heard anybody say that illegals should have voting rights.


Quote:
"When we talk about newcomers, we have to recognize the constant reinvigoration of America that they are, that we all have been, our families," Pelosi said in Texas. "These newcomers make America more American. And we want them, when they come here, to be fully part of our system and that means not suppressing the vote of our newcomers to America."

Nancy Pelosi


"Newcomers".. that's cute.

Quote:
The incarcerated felons thing is a constitutional debate. Personally I don't care either way because inmates will vote across the board so that's not gerrymandering IMHO.

Let me help you with some math... Blacks and Hispanics make up about 64% of the prison population (compared to about 31% of the overall population).. blacks vote 91% democratic, hispanics at 67%...

If you think prison voting wouldn't matter because it would mirror a cross section of voting, you are delusional.
Originally Posted By: 40YEARSWAITING
Why take politics into the prison system?
Things are violent enough there.
Why have convicted felons fighting over their favorite candidates?

This place is a prime example and most of us are not convicted felons, yet.


Yet? Don't include the rest of us in your criminal ponderings.
Originally Posted By: OldColdDawg
Originally Posted By: 40YEARSWAITING
Why take politics into the prison system?
Things are violent enough there.
Why have convicted felons fighting over their favorite candidates?

This place is a prime example and most of us are not convicted felons, yet.


Yet? Don't include the rest of us in your criminal ponderings.


With you Libs looking to make certain guns illegal, you will make felons of millions of us overnight.
Originally Posted By: 40YEARSWAITING
Originally Posted By: OldColdDawg
Originally Posted By: 40YEARSWAITING
Why take politics into the prison system?
Things are violent enough there.
Why have convicted felons fighting over their favorite candidates?

This place is a prime example and most of us are not convicted felons, yet.


Yet? Don't include the rest of us in your criminal ponderings.


With you Libs looking to make certain guns illegal, you will make felons of millions of us overnight.


I won't make you anything. You will.
Originally Posted By: Dawg Duty

Thats because unlike what Swish said about GOPers California and New York are a bunch of Girlly Men who vote the way their wives tell them.


This is where people like you appear to be so foolish. Upper New York state is not liberal. There are six members of congress from New York that are Republicans. There are seven members of congress from California that are Republicans. There are very conservative areas of California.

When do you propose that Republicans started voting for who their wives told them to?

See what happens when you try to paint everyone from some place as the same? It just proves how little you actually know.
Future Headline: "Dawg Duty get his ass handed to him in California Gay bar for using the term Girly Men! See Video Below"
Originally Posted By: OldColdDawg
Originally Posted By: DCDAWGFAN
Quote:
This whole census question is nothing more that GOP gerrymandering on a new level.

Then what is wanting to extend the vote to illegals? To incarcerated felons? etc?


Haven't heard anybody say that illegals should have voting rights. The incarcerated felons thing is a constitutional debate. Personally I don't care either way because inmates will vote across the board so that's not gerrymandering IMHO.



If you don't believe illegals should have voting Rights than why should they be counted when determining Representation? I get that some areas need additional funding to deal with the negative impact of illegal immigration. But I view that as a separate issue from the number of allocated seats in the House.
Originally Posted By: DevilDawg2847
Originally Posted By: OldColdDawg
Originally Posted By: DCDAWGFAN
Quote:
This whole census question is nothing more that GOP gerrymandering on a new level.

Then what is wanting to extend the vote to illegals? To incarcerated felons? etc?


Haven't heard anybody say that illegals should have voting rights. The incarcerated felons thing is a constitutional debate. Personally I don't care either way because inmates will vote across the board so that's not gerrymandering IMHO.


If you don't believe illegals should have voting Rights than why should they be counted when determining Representation? I get that some areas need additional funding to deal with the negative impact of illegal immigration. But I view that as a separate issue from the number of allocated seats in the House.



Why shouldn't they be represented as part of the greater communities they live in? A lot of these 'illegals' pay the same taxes you do. They don't have the personal right to vote and I agree with that, but congressional representation is not an individual thing, it's a community thing. This is just an extension of the GOP's persecution of the other. They want to transfer more congressional power to districts that vote republican. Ohio has a huge illegal population, so you better be careful what you wish for because the GOP run state already sucks ass. Less money for roads, schools, and hospitals is not going to help that.

Other than a few sanctuary cities, this will hit the GOP as hard or harder if you just want it for representation. Illegals live in conservative areas too, I'd say more so between the coast.

Trump and company just want to create bad will towards hispanic people, this is why they want this so bad. It's just another wedge to divide us. Supporting Trump is the hill y'all decided to die on, the GOP is over.
Originally Posted By: OldColdDawg
Originally Posted By: DevilDawg2847
Originally Posted By: OldColdDawg
Originally Posted By: DCDAWGFAN
Quote:
This whole census question is nothing more that GOP gerrymandering on a new level.

Then what is wanting to extend the vote to illegals? To incarcerated felons? etc?


Haven't heard anybody say that illegals should have voting rights. The incarcerated felons thing is a constitutional debate. Personally I don't care either way because inmates will vote across the board so that's not gerrymandering IMHO.


If you don't believe illegals should have voting Rights than why should they be counted when determining Representation? I get that some areas need additional funding to deal with the negative impact of illegal immigration. But I view that as a separate issue from the number of allocated seats in the House.



Why shouldn't they be represented as part of the greater communities they live in? A lot of these 'illegals' pay the same taxes you do. They don't have the personal right to vote and I agree with that, but congressional representation is not an individual thing, it's a community thing. This is just an extension of the GOP's persecution of the other. They want to transfer more congressional power to districts that vote republican. Ohio has a huge illegal population, so you better be careful what you wish for because the GOP run state already sucks ass. Less money for roads, schools, and hospitals is not going to help that.

Other than a few sanctuary cities, this will hit the GOP as hard or harder if you just want it for representation. Illegals live in conservative areas too, I'd say more so between the coast.

Trump and company just want to create bad will towards hispanic people, this is why they want this so bad. It's just another wedge to divide us. Supporting Trump is the hill y'all decided to die on, the GOP is over.


You don't even know what your talking about. Illegal aliens cost the USA about 140 billion dollars lost from from taxes. That's 9-11 every single friggin year.

What taxes do you think illegals with no social security number are paying? It sure isn't income taxes unless they are committing tax fraud and identity theft. What's one more felony right? Never mind that businesses pay much lower wages in areas with large pools of illegal labor. So not only are job taken away from people who deserve those jobs as American citizens but the jobs become so undervalued that normal citizens can't earn a decent living at them after a while because of the wage being driven down. Businesses then get used to not paying a fair wage for work that is done and value the employees even less because they are easily replaceable by illegal labor. Thus even more tax wages are loss because people making a living wage on honest pay for honest work pay a LOT more in taxes.

Also your pretty racist to think it's only Hispanics are here illegally. There are a lot of russians and asians here illegally too. Of course many of them came here against their will. Maybe, just maybe if we could secure our southern border we could put more effort into securing out interior and actually making out country safer by doing a normal thing a country does all over the rest of the world by simply knowing who is in your country and getting rid of the ones who are not there legally.
Originally Posted By: OldColdDawg
Originally Posted By: Razorthorns
The census is to calculate US citizens not people who are here illegally and who should not be counted towards a state's legal representatives. Only legal citizens should be counted towards the census.

Then again liberal states love to use illegal aliens to cast fake votes to begin with so that criminals can help to run their states. Then they wonder why they keep falling apart.


Show me that in the constitution.

Or here is this:

The U.S. Constitution empowers the Congress to carry out the census in "such manner as they shall by Law direct" (Article I, Section 2). The Founders of our fledgling nation had a bold and ambitious plan to empower the people over their new government. The plan was to count every person living in the newly created United States of America, and to use that count to determine representation in the Congress.

https://www.census.gov/programs-surveys/decennial-census/about/census-constitution.html

But if you seen it on Fox News it must be true.


Again you show your ignorance. It's been on the long form of the census for a very long time now. Comparing the original census when we didn't even have clearly defined borders or even territories or states for that matter to this day in time is just silly.

Here are some stats for you. Even as far back as 2003 18 million illegal aliens took over influence of over 29 congressional seats. That is a FACT. It literally changed the political landscape by GIVING california 6 new seats in the house of congress.

So you have California gaining representation because of illegal aliens and stripping them away from other states and US citizens. Those are real Americans losing their voice to THEIR government to lawbreakers and thieves who stole their way in and then lie to stay in and keep breaking the laws of our country.

Yet you sit there in ignorance with the audacity to say these criminals are a benefit to our country and to real Americans? Please just stop. American has suffered enough.
Originally Posted By: Razorthorns
Originally Posted By: OldColdDawg
Originally Posted By: DevilDawg2847
Originally Posted By: OldColdDawg
Originally Posted By: DCDAWGFAN
Quote:
This whole census question is nothing more that GOP gerrymandering on a new level.

Then what is wanting to extend the vote to illegals? To incarcerated felons? etc?


Haven't heard anybody say that illegals should have voting rights. The incarcerated felons thing is a constitutional debate. Personally I don't care either way because inmates will vote across the board so that's not gerrymandering IMHO.


If you don't believe illegals should have voting Rights than why should they be counted when determining Representation? I get that some areas need additional funding to deal with the negative impact of illegal immigration. But I view that as a separate issue from the number of allocated seats in the House.



Why shouldn't they be represented as part of the greater communities they live in? A lot of these 'illegals' pay the same taxes you do. They don't have the personal right to vote and I agree with that, but congressional representation is not an individual thing, it's a community thing. This is just an extension of the GOP's persecution of the other. They want to transfer more congressional power to districts that vote republican. Ohio has a huge illegal population, so you better be careful what you wish for because the GOP run state already sucks ass. Less money for roads, schools, and hospitals is not going to help that.

Other than a few sanctuary cities, this will hit the GOP as hard or harder if you just want it for representation. Illegals live in conservative areas too, I'd say more so between the coast.

Trump and company just want to create bad will towards hispanic people, this is why they want this so bad. It's just another wedge to divide us. Supporting Trump is the hill y'all decided to die on, the GOP is over.


You don't even know what your talking about. Illegal aliens cost the USA about 140 billion dollars lost from from taxes. That's 9-11 every single friggin year.

What taxes do you think illegals with no social security number are paying? It sure isn't income taxes unless they are committing tax fraud and identity theft. What's one more felony right? Never mind that businesses pay much lower wages in areas with large pools of illegal labor. So not only are job taken away from people who deserve those jobs as American citizens but the jobs become so undervalued that normal citizens can't earn a decent living at them after a while because of the wage being driven down. Businesses then get used to not paying a fair wage for work that is done and value the employees even less because they are easily replaceable by illegal labor. Thus even more tax wages are loss because people making a living wage on honest pay for honest work pay a LOT more in taxes.

Also your pretty racist to think it's only Hispanics are here illegally. There are a lot of russians and asians here illegally too. Of course many of them came here against their will. Maybe, just maybe if we could secure our southern border we could put more effort into securing out interior and actually making out country safer by doing a normal thing a country does all over the rest of the world by simply knowing who is in your country and getting rid of the ones who are not there legally.


I never said hispanics are the only illegals, but when is the last time you heard Trump mention those darned illegal Russians?

And many illegals use fake SSNs to get jobs. Their checks are taxed. I know not all, for the ones working under the table the blame should be placed squarely on the employer 100%. BUT income tax is only one of many taxes you pay. They pay all the other taxes too.
Originally Posted By: OldColdDawg
Originally Posted By: DevilDawg2847
Originally Posted By: OldColdDawg
Originally Posted By: DCDAWGFAN
Quote:
This whole census question is nothing more that GOP gerrymandering on a new level.

Then what is wanting to extend the vote to illegals? To incarcerated felons? etc?


Haven't heard anybody say that illegals should have voting rights. The incarcerated felons thing is a constitutional debate. Personally I don't care either way because inmates will vote across the board so that's not gerrymandering IMHO.


If you don't believe illegals should have voting Rights than why should they be counted when determining Representation? I get that some areas need additional funding to deal with the negative impact of illegal immigration. But I view that as a separate issue from the number of allocated seats in the House.



Why shouldn't they be represented as part of the greater communities they live in? A lot of these 'illegals' pay the same taxes you do. They don't have the personal right to vote and I agree with that, but congressional representation is not an individual thing, it's a community thing. This is just an extension of the GOP's persecution of the other. They want to transfer more congressional power to districts that vote republican. Ohio has a huge illegal population, so you better be careful what you wish for because the GOP run state already sucks ass. Less money for roads, schools, and hospitals is not going to help that.

Other than a few sanctuary cities, this will hit the GOP as hard or harder if you just want it for representation. Illegals live in conservative areas too, I'd say more so between the coast.

Trump and company just want to create bad will towards hispanic people, this is why they want this so bad. It's just another wedge to divide us. Supporting Trump is the hill y'all decided to die on, the GOP is over.



"Why shouldn't they be represented as part of the greater communities they live in? A lot of these 'illegals' pay the same taxes you do. They don't have the personal right to vote and I agree with that,"

This is easily one of the stupidest things I've ever read.

Please explain Professor how creating an entire class of people who can't vote = representation within the political structure?

Oh.. I see... they get their representation through the overseers of a certain political party. Why should they worry about speaking for themselves when the Democrats can speak for them (language barriers not withstanding). Sounds an awful like exploitation...
Originally Posted By: Razorthorns
Originally Posted By: OldColdDawg
Originally Posted By: Razorthorns
The census is to calculate US citizens not people who are here illegally and who should not be counted towards a state's legal representatives. Only legal citizens should be counted towards the census.

Then again liberal states love to use illegal aliens to cast fake votes to begin with so that criminals can help to run their states. Then they wonder why they keep falling apart.


Show me that in the constitution.

Or here is this:

The U.S. Constitution empowers the Congress to carry out the census in "such manner as they shall by Law direct" (Article I, Section 2). The Founders of our fledgling nation had a bold and ambitious plan to empower the people over their new government. The plan was to count every person living in the newly created United States of America, and to use that count to determine representation in the Congress.

https://www.census.gov/programs-surveys/decennial-census/about/census-constitution.html

But if you seen it on Fox News it must be true.


Again you show your ignorance. It's been on the long form of the census for a very long time now. Comparing the original census when we didn't even have clearly defined borders or even territories or states for that matter to this day in time is just silly.

Here are some stats for you. Even as far back as 2003 18 million illegal aliens took over influence of over 29 congressional seats. That is a FACT. It literally changed the political landscape by GIVING california 6 new seats in the house of congress.

So you have California gaining representation because of illegal aliens and stripping them away from other states and US citizens. Those are real Americans losing their voice to THEIR government to lawbreakers and thieves who stole their way in and then lie to stay in and keep breaking the laws of our country.

Yet you sit there in ignorance with the audacity to say these criminals are a benefit to our country and to real Americans? Please just stop. American has suffered enough.


You sound like every bigot I've ever seen. I thought you were some big Christian, but your views of your fellow man sound pretty damnable to me. The overwhelming majority of these people only want to work and contribute to society while escaping a much worse existence in their home countries. That is something you would condemn them for... The difference between you and me is that no part of me is ignorant like you just called me.

It's one thing to state your view, or dislike the 'illegal law breakers' for actually breaking the law, but you seem to seethe a putrid hatred that you only want to justify with that rhetoric. WWJD? Not act like you.
Originally Posted By: OldColdDawg


I never said hispanics are the only illegals, but when is the last time you heard Trump mention those darned illegal Russians?

And many illegals use fake SSNs to get jobs. Their checks are taxed. I know not all, for the ones working under the table the blame should be placed squarely on the employer 100%. BUT income tax is only one of many taxes you pay. They pay all the other taxes too.


You know who else pays "all the other taxes too"? Tourists. I guess you want to let them vote as well right? Oh, what about foreign companies who have businesses here too. They pay a ton of those other taxes as well through their commerce.. maybe their Board of Directors should be able to vote too?
Originally Posted By: DevilDawg2847
Originally Posted By: OldColdDawg


I never said hispanics are the only illegals, but when is the last time you heard Trump mention those darned illegal Russians?

And many illegals use fake SSNs to get jobs. Their checks are taxed. I know not all, for the ones working under the table the blame should be placed squarely on the employer 100%. BUT income tax is only one of many taxes you pay. They pay all the other taxes too.


You know who else pays "all the other taxes too"? Tourists. I guess you want to let them vote as well right? Oh, what about foreign companies who have businesses here too. They pay a ton of those other taxes as well through their commerce.. maybe their Board of Directors should be able to vote too?



When did I say let them vote? I want them counted on the census because they live where they live. But don't let facts stop your rant.
Originally Posted By: DevilDawg2847
Originally Posted By: OldColdDawg
Originally Posted By: DevilDawg2847
Originally Posted By: OldColdDawg
Originally Posted By: DCDAWGFAN
Quote:
This whole census question is nothing more that GOP gerrymandering on a new level.

Then what is wanting to extend the vote to illegals? To incarcerated felons? etc?


Haven't heard anybody say that illegals should have voting rights. The incarcerated felons thing is a constitutional debate. Personally I don't care either way because inmates will vote across the board so that's not gerrymandering IMHO.


If you don't believe illegals should have voting Rights than why should they be counted when determining Representation? I get that some areas need additional funding to deal with the negative impact of illegal immigration. But I view that as a separate issue from the number of allocated seats in the House.



Why shouldn't they be represented as part of the greater communities they live in? A lot of these 'illegals' pay the same taxes you do. They don't have the personal right to vote and I agree with that, but congressional representation is not an individual thing, it's a community thing. This is just an extension of the GOP's persecution of the other. They want to transfer more congressional power to districts that vote republican. Ohio has a huge illegal population, so you better be careful what you wish for because the GOP run state already sucks ass. Less money for roads, schools, and hospitals is not going to help that.

Other than a few sanctuary cities, this will hit the GOP as hard or harder if you just want it for representation. Illegals live in conservative areas too, I'd say more so between the coast.

Trump and company just want to create bad will towards hispanic people, this is why they want this so bad. It's just another wedge to divide us. Supporting Trump is the hill y'all decided to die on, the GOP is over.



"Why shouldn't they be represented as part of the greater communities they live in? A lot of these 'illegals' pay the same taxes you do. They don't have the personal right to vote and I agree with that,"

This is easily one of the stupidest things I've ever read.

Please explain Professor how creating an entire class of people who can't vote = representation within the political structure?

Oh.. I see... they get their representation through the overseers of a certain political party. Why should they worry about speaking for themselves when the Democrats can speak for them (language barriers not withstanding). Sounds an awful like exploitation...





Let me put this in TROG (dumbed down) for you...

Do you think illegals ONLY live where libs serve in congress? Answer: No

Do you think illegals will check a box on the census that says they are here illegally just to be counted? Answer: No

Do you think people living in those communities that are legal or citizens should be punished and lose government funding because illegals are afraid to be counted? Answer: You don't think that way

Do you think a representative in congress, any one of them, only represents illegal immigrants in their district? Answer: No

Did you know there are 321,000 unauthorized people in North Carolina? Answer: my guess is probably not

https://www.migrationpolicy.org/data/unauthorized-immigrant-population/state/NC

Will you be good losing funding or a congressional seat or two? Answer: nope

Do you despise those dirty sanctuary cities the liberals devils run that Fox News tells you about over and over every day? Answer: Yup, I hates em so much that I'd vote for crap that kicks me in the nads ifin Trump told me to...

smh@u
Originally Posted By: OldColdDawg
Originally Posted By: Razorthorns
Originally Posted By: OldColdDawg
Originally Posted By: Razorthorns
The census is to calculate US citizens not people who are here illegally and who should not be counted towards a state's legal representatives. Only legal citizens should be counted towards the census.

Then again liberal states love to use illegal aliens to cast fake votes to begin with so that criminals can help to run their states. Then they wonder why they keep falling apart.


Show me that in the constitution.

Or here is this:

The U.S. Constitution empowers the Congress to carry out the census in "such manner as they shall by Law direct" (Article I, Section 2). The Founders of our fledgling nation had a bold and ambitious plan to empower the people over their new government. The plan was to count every person living in the newly created United States of America, and to use that count to determine representation in the Congress.

https://www.census.gov/programs-surveys/decennial-census/about/census-constitution.html

But if you seen it on Fox News it must be true.


Again you show your ignorance. It's been on the long form of the census for a very long time now. Comparing the original census when we didn't even have clearly defined borders or even territories or states for that matter to this day in time is just silly.

Here are some stats for you. Even as far back as 2003 18 million illegal aliens took over influence of over 29 congressional seats. That is a FACT. It literally changed the political landscape by GIVING california 6 new seats in the house of congress.

So you have California gaining representation because of illegal aliens and stripping them away from other states and US citizens. Those are real Americans losing their voice to THEIR government to lawbreakers and thieves who stole their way in and then lie to stay in and keep breaking the laws of our country.

Yet you sit there in ignorance with the audacity to say these criminals are a benefit to our country and to real Americans? Please just stop. American has suffered enough.


You sound like every bigot I've ever seen. I thought you were some big Christian, but your views of your fellow man sound pretty damnable to me. The overwhelming majority of these people only want to work and contribute to society while escaping a much worse existence in their home countries. That is something you would condemn them for... The difference between you and me is that no part of me is ignorant like you just called me.

It's one thing to state your view, or dislike the 'illegal law breakers' for actually breaking the law, but you seem to seethe a putrid hatred that you only want to justify with that rhetoric. WWJD? Not act like you.


Jesus would say obey the laws and render unto Ceasar what is Ceasar's. He would also tell them not to lie, bear false witness, steal, etc.

I treat criminals as criminals. I treat immigrants as immigrants. People who come here illegally are not immigrants but criminals who broke the law and should be punished for breaking the law. It's not complicated.

Then again why even have laws if your not going to enforce them. Hell why have congress for that matter. I mean if they write laws but no one enforces those laws then why even give them a job to begin with. I am just so seriously tired of the lack of reasoning and logic ability some people seriously show.
The Sheep and the Goats

31When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the angels with Him, He will sit on His glorious throne. 32All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate the people one from another, as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33He will place the sheep on His right and the goats on His left.

34Then the King will say to those on His right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. 35For I was hungry and you gave Me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave Me something to drink, I was a stranger and you took Me in, 36I was naked and you clothed Me, I was sick and you looked after Me, I was in prison and you visited Me.’

37Then the righteous will answer Him, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry and feed You, or thirsty and give You something to drink? 38When did we see You a stranger and take You in, or naked and clothe You? 39When did we see You sick or in prison and visit You?’

40And the King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of Mine, you did for Me.’

41Then He will say to those on His left, ‘Depart from Me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42For I was hungry and you gave Me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave Me nothing to drink, 43I was a stranger and you did not take Me in, I was naked and you did not clothe Me, I was sick and in prison and you did not visit Me.’

44And they too will reply, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to You?’

45Then the King will answer, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for Me.’

46And they will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

_____________

I'm the Atheist... and I see the fault in your thinking in a more Christian way than you probably ever will because hate has blinded you to the truth of your own beliefs.
They don't want them to be counted in order to punish sanctuary cities and states by cutting their government funding. It's a classic right wing deal. "Do as we say or be punished."

Most of them have no idea who all this will actually impact and where they live.

Source: Immigration and Customs Enforcement Data

States

California
Colorado
Illinois
Massachusetts
New Jersey
New Mexico
Oregon
Vermont

Cities and Counties

California

Alameda County
Berkley
Contra Costa County
Los Angeles County
Los Angeles
Monterey County
Napa County
Oakland
Riverside County
Sacramento County
San Bernardino County
San Diego County
San Francisco
San Francisco County
San Mateo County
Santa Ana
Santa Clara County
Santa Cruz County
Sonoma County
Watsonville

Colorado

Arapahoe County
Aurora
Boulder County
Denver
Denver County
Garfield County
Grand County
Jefferson County
Larimer County
Mesa County
Pitkin County
Pueblo County
Routt County
San Miguel County
Weld County

Connecticut

East Haven
Hartford

Florida

Alachua County

Georgia

Clayton County
DeKalb County

Iowa

Benton County
Cass County
Fremont County
Greene County
Ida County
Iowa City
Iowa City, Johnson County
Jefferson County
Marion County
Monona County
Montgomery County
Pottawattamie County
Sioux County

Illinois

Chicago
Cook County

Kansas

Butler County
Harvey County

Louisiana

New Orleans

Massachusetts

Amherst
Boston
Cambridge
Concord
Lawrence
Newton
Northhampton
Somerville

Maryland

Baltimore
Montgomery County
Prince George's County

Michigan

Ingham County
Kalamazoo County
Kent County
Wayne County

Minnesota

Hennepin County

Mississippi

Jackson

Nebraska

Hall County
Sarpy County

New Jersey

Newark

New Mexico

Bernalillo County
New Mexico County Jails
San Miguel

Nevada

Washoe County

New York

Albany
Franklin County
Ithaca
Nassau County
New York City
Omondaga County
St. Lawrence County
Wayne County

North Carolina

Buncombe County
Durham County
Forsyth County
Mecklenburg County
Orange County
Wake County

Ohio

Franklin County

Oregon

Baker County
Clackamas County
Clatsop County
Coos County
Crook County
Curry County
Deschutes County
Douglas County
Gilliam County
Grant County
Hood River County
Jackson County
Jefferson County
Josephine County
Lane Countyn
Lincoln County
Linn County
Malheur County
Marion County
Marlon County
Multnomah County
Polk County
Sherman County
Springfield
Tillamok County
Umatilla County
Union County
Wallowa County
Wasco County
Washington County
Wheeler County
Yamhill County

Pennsylvania

Bradford County
Bucks County
Butler County
Chester County
Clarion County
Delaware County
Erie County
Franklin County
Lehigh County
Lycoming County
Montgomery County
Montour County
Perry County
Philadelphia
Pike County
Westmoreland County

Rhode Island

Providence, Rhode Island
Rhode Island Department of Corrections

Virginia

Arlington County
Chesterfield County
Fairfax County

Vermont

Burlington
Montpelier
Winooski

Washington

Chelan County
Clallam County
Clark County
Cowlitz County
Franklin County
Jefferson County
King County
Kitsap County
Pierce County
San Juan County
Skagit County
Snohomish County
Spokane County
Seattle
Thurston County
Walla Walla County
Wallowa County
Whatcom County
Yakima County

https://cis.org/Map-Sanctuary-Cities-Counties-and-States

In some cases they will hit those they actually wish to target. In other cases it will hurt some states and places they narrowly won in 2016. In the end they'll shoot themselves in the foot by not fully thinking this thing through.

It's what happens when Trumpian emotions and poor impulse control dictate your actions.
Originally Posted By: PitDAWG
They don't want them to be counted in order to punish sanctuary cities and states by cutting their government funding. It's a classic right wing deal. "Do as we say or be punished."

It's what happens when Trumpian emotions and poor impulse control dictate your actions.


Or perhaps it's really just a case of I don't want my taxes spent on illegal aliens and I don't want states to gain congressmen for people who are not citizens and should be kicked out instead of encouraged to disregard our laws by thinking that our laws don't apply to them.

Maybe we just want people to be treated fairly by the law and for those who break the law to be punished when they do.
I didn't know trying to not count people who actually live in the U.S. was the law.

cen·sus
/ˈsensəs/
noun
noun: census; plural noun: censuses

an official count or survey of a population, typically recording various details of individuals.
Personally I think we should have the census. It's not a new thing, it was around before.

We also need to have a mandatory voter ID law in all states and all elections in order to properly vote. There's no reason to disagree with that.
Originally Posted By: tastybrownies
Personally I think we should have the census. It's not a new thing, it was around before.

We also need to have a mandatory voter ID law in all states and all elections in order to properly vote. There's no reason to disagree with that.


I have zero issue with voter ID as long as it is an easily accessible free ID that can be issued in a very timely same day manner. As long as we are not using it to suppress any group of legal voters vote, I'm all for it.
I honestly don't think we need a census. Just force all citizens to have a national ID and make it free and mandatory to update the living address on it.

At the end of the year let the federal databases update where those citizens live and boom instant census of the legal voters of the country. Adjust house delegates accordingly and automatically.

Want to vote then have your national ID on hand. Instant end to voter fraud.
You need to count every person living in the country. Children getting IDs? Non-citizens? Prisoners? Not to mention that the constitution calls for a census... but hey why let that stand in the way of the GOPer agenda?

I'd like to know where all the tea party people are while the constitution is getting trampled on by the right.
Originally Posted By: OldColdDawg
You need to count every person living in the country. Children getting IDs? Non-citizens? Prisoners? Not to mention that the constitution calls for a census... but hey why let that stand in the way of the GOPer agenda?

I'd like to know where all the tea party people are while the constitution is getting trampled on by the right.


Kids can have a national ID that is also used for a school ID. Imagine that. Having to be a US citizen to spend US tax dollars. Terrible right?

Non citizens can't legally vote and neither can felons so no they don't need to be represented.

Perhaps you could educate yourself on the changes made to the census and why they were made. Our forefathers new the constitution would need to change and adapt to changing times. Thus we have amendments and new laws passed. Don't let the facts and logic get in your way though.
Originally Posted By: OldColdDawg
I'd like to know where all the tea party people are while the constitution is getting trampled on by the right.


More like being goose stepped upon. The press is being burnt faster than books during the Nazi era.
© DawgTalkers.net