White House says Turkey will soon launch Syria operation

The White House on Sunday night said Turkey will soon be launching a military operation in northeastern Syria and that U.S. troops will no longer be "in the immediate area" when it happens.

"Turkey will soon be moving forward with its long-planned operation into Northern Syria. The United States Armed Forces will not support or be involved in the operation, and United States forces, having defeated the ISIS territorial 'Caliphate,' will no longer be in the immediate area," White House press secretary Stephanie Grisham said in a statement.

The announcement comes hours after President Trump held a phone call with Turkish counterpart Recep Tayyip Erdogan, in which the two reportedly discussed the conflict and agreed to a meeting in Washington in November.

More than 1,000 U.S. troops are currently deployed in northeastern Syria, where they work closely with the Kurdish YPG, which leads the Syrian Democratic Forces in the region. The Kurds have proven to be among Washington's most effective allies in the fight against the Islamic State in Iraq and Syria (ISIS).

Erdogan has repeatedly expressed frustration with Washington's close alliance with the Kurds along his country's border with Syria, linking them to the Kurdistan Workers' Party (PKK), which is designated a terrorist organization in Turkey. Washington also labels the PKK a terrorist group, but not the YPG.

The U.S., in an effort to reduce tensions in the region, has been working on establishing a safe zone along the border. But the plans have faltered, and the Turkish president in recent days has warned that Ankara will soon be launching a military operation across the border, as soon as within the next couple of days.

Grisham in her Sunday statement added the U.S. will not be holding any more ISIS fighters, and that "Turkey will now be responsible for all ISIS fighters in the area captured over the past two years in the wake of the defeat of the territorial 'Caliphate' by the United States."

U.S European Command tweeted Saturday that Washington was working "to address Turkey’s legitimate security concerns."

The official Twitter account of the Syrian Democratic Forces responded on Sunday night saying it had fulfilled its commitment to the U.S. proposal for the "security mechanism" along the border.

"But Erdogan's threats are aimed to change the security mechanism into a mechanism of death, displace our people & change the stable & secure region into a zone of conflict and permanent war," the SDF tweeted, warning that a Turkish military invasion could erase gains made against ISIS and make Syria "a permanent conflict area."The White House on Sunday night said Turkey will soon be launching a military operation in northeastern Syria and that U.S. troops will no longer be "in the immediate area" when it happens.

"Turkey will soon be moving forward with its long-planned operation into Northern Syria. The United States Armed Forces will not support or be involved in the operation, and United States forces, having defeated the ISIS territorial 'Caliphate,' will no longer be in the immediate area," White House press secretary Stephanie Grisham said in a statement.

The announcement comes hours after President Trump held a phone call with Turkish counterpart Recep Tayyip Erdogan, in which the two reportedly discussed the conflict and agreed to a meeting in Washington in November.

More than 1,000 U.S. troops are currently deployed in northeastern Syria, where they work closely with the Kurdish YPG, which leads the Syrian Democratic Forces in the region. The Kurds have proven to be among Washington's most effective allies in the fight against the Islamic State in Iraq and Syria (ISIS).

Erdogan has repeatedly expressed frustration with Washington's close alliance with the Kurds along his country's border with Syria, linking them to the Kurdistan Workers' Party (PKK), which is designated a terrorist organization in Turkey. Washington also labels the PKK a terrorist group, but not the YPG.

The U.S., in an effort to reduce tensions in the region, has been working on establishing a safe zone along the border. But the plans have faltered, and the Turkish president in recent days has warned that Ankara will soon be launching a military operation across the border, as soon as within the next couple of days.

Grisham in her Sunday statement added the U.S. will not be holding any more ISIS fighters, and that "Turkey will now be responsible for all ISIS fighters in the area captured over the past two years in the wake of the defeat of the territorial 'Caliphate' by the United States."

U.S European Command tweeted Saturday that Washington was working "to address Turkey’s legitimate security concerns."

The official Twitter account of the Syrian Democratic Forces responded on Sunday night saying it had fulfilled its commitment to the U.S. proposal for the "security mechanism" along the border.

"But Erdogan's threats are aimed to change the security mechanism into a mechanism of death, displace our people & change the stable & secure region into a zone of conflict and permanent war," the SDF tweeted, warning that a Turkish military invasion could erase gains made against ISIS and make Syria "a permanent conflict area."

https://thehill.com/policy/defense/46459...wont-be-present

Not sure what to make of this. It looks like Trump is knuckling under to Erdogan and abandoning the Kurds who will have to fight Turkey. Before Erdogan, Turkey was a key ally in the region, but Erdogan has changed that relationship.

Somebody who understands this area better, please explain what you think about this action. It looks to me like Trump just made us weaker again in the face of a dictator. Am I wrong? And I'm not looking for Trumpian spin.

I feel really bad for the Kurds, who were our day one, ride or die, now that trump is in charge.

Bush and Obama made sure to take care of them, but now trump might let Turkey continue their dumbass onslaught against the Kurds.

I would hope the US would continue pursuing a diplomatic solution, but this is trump we’re talking about so who am I Kidding?

Trump's cut and run policy leaving our ally, the Kurds, to fend for themselves against Turkey is a direct reflection on Trump, the man making the decision to cut and run.

It is also a direct reflection upon the United States that is now aligning with the likes of Turkey and Russia...while turning our backs on an ally that sacrificed their lives supporting the USA against ISIS.

...this is how Trump operates, stabbing an ally in the back FOR WHAT?

Well, the Turkish President Erdogan did threaten to remove Trump's name from the Trump Towers in Istanbul, Turkey.

...Trump wouldn't sell out the Kurds over the naming right to buildings in Turkey, would he?

Graham: White House decision on Turkey 'unnerving to its core'
Republican senator Lindsey Graham is enraged this morning, taking the rare step of challenging Donald Trump on Twitter and in a phone call to Fox News - the two direct lines to the president.

On Twitter, Graham outlined his opposition to the president’s decision to abandon US allies in northern Syria, the Kurds, and support a Turkish offensive in the area. Graham said the abrupt foreign policy change “ensures ISIS comeback,” “forces Kurds to align with Assad and Iran,” “destroys Turkey’s relationship with US congress” and “will be a stain on America’s honor for abandoning the Kurds.”

He also said if the plan goes forward, the Senate will ask for a reversal of the decision.


Lindsey Graham
✔
@LindseyGrahamSC
· 1h
Replying to @LindseyGrahamSC
* Ensures ISIS comeback.
* Forces Kurds to align with Assad and Iran.
* Destroys Turkey’s relationship with U.S. Congress.
* Will be a stain on America’s honor for abandoning the Kurds.


Lindsey Graham
✔
@LindseyGrahamSC
Also, if this plan goes forward will introduce Senate resolution opposing and asking for reversal of this decision. Expect it will receive strong bipartisan support.

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“If I’m an Isis fighter, I’ve got a second lease on life,” Graham told Fox News. “So to those who think ISIS has been defeated, you will soon see.”

“I like president Trump, I’ve tried to help him,” Graham said. “This to me is just unnerving to its core.”

link

Nikki Haley criticizes Trump's Syria withdrawal: Leaving allies to die 'is a big mistake'

https://thehill.com/policy/defense/46463...to-die-is-a-big

Graham and Haley are two big voices in the GOP.

Trump is setting himself up with his name associated to every bloody picture showing a wounded or dead Kurd at the hands of the Turks.

...that is not going to be a good look for Trump or the Republicans supporting Trump. There will be pictures of dead Kurdish woman and children on the front pages of American newspapers and on the internet...all because of Trump's decision to turn his back on the Kurds.

They are not white european, it won't matter to his base.

Wow, looking like Trump crapped the bed with this one bad. Military types losing their minds over this, this morning. Many GOP calling him out too.

He's just nuts.

That’s insane. He’s a crazy person.

I can see how this will all work out. When the next time comes we need help from someone in a region of the world, nobody will step up to the plate now that we are about to abandon the Kurds.

They'll say it's because they hate America and want to kill us all while some of us will understand exactly why they won't step up to the plate. It's because they know that in the end we won't have their back.

this is utterly embarrassing.

McConnell warns Trump against withdrawing troops from Syria

Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) on Monday warned President Trump against pulling U.S. forces out of key positions in Syria, arguing that it “would only benefit Russia, Iran, and the Assad regime,” which is responsible for thousands of civilian deaths.

McConnell in a statement reminded Trump that the Senate voted earlier this year, with overwhelming Republican support, in favor of a resolution expressing strong opposition to a military withdrawal from Syria and Afghanistan.

“The conditions that produced that bipartisan vote still exist today. While the physical caliphate has been removed, ISIS and al Qaeda remain dangerous forces in Syria and the ongoing Syrian civil war poses significant security and humanitarian risks,” McConnell stated.

“I urge the President to exercise American leadership to keep together our multinational coalition to defeat ISIS and prevent significant conflict between our NATO ally Turkey and our local Syrian counterterrorism partners,” he added. “Major new conflict between Turkey and our partners in Syria would seriously risk damaging Turkey’s ties to the United States and causing greater isolation for Turkey on the world stage.”

“As we learned the hard way during the Obama Administration, American interests are best served by American leadership, not by retreat or withdrawal,” McConnell warned on Monday.

It’s a rare break between Trump and McConnell, who is up for reelection in 2020 and has centered his campaign strategy on portraying himself as an essential ally to the president in Washington.

But the disagreement over how to handle the U.S. military presence in Syria and Afghanistan has simmered for months.

The Senate voted 70 to 26 in February for a resolution McConnell authored warning against a precipitous withdrawal of forces from the region.

Only four Republicans voted against it: Sens. Ted Cruz (Texas), Mike Lee (Utah), Rand Paul (Ky.) and John Kennedy (La.).

The issue appeared to die down in recent months as the Senate focused instead on confirming Trump’s nominees, negotiating spending bills and responding to the impeachment push in the House.

It flared unexpectedly on Monday after the White House announced Sunday night Turkey would launch an offensive in northeastern Syria and U.S. troops would not be "in the immediate area" when it happens. The move drew immediate fire Monday from GOP lawmakers, who characterized it as a green light for Turkey to launch combat operations against U.S.-allied Kurdish forces, who have waged the brunt of the fighting against the Islamic State in Iraq and Syria.

Trump said that “Turkey, Europe, Syria, Iran, Iraq, Russia and the Kurds will now have to figure the situation out” and declared “it is time for us to get out of these ridiculous Endless Wars, many of them tribal, and bring our soldiers home.”

https://thehill.com/policy/defense/464703-mcconnell-warns-trump-on-syria-withdrawal

Plays right into Putin's hand..Trump is legit crazy. There has to be some recourse to get him removed.. He legit said "in my great and unmatched wisdom" good god I'm embarrased for our country. Worst thing is...nothing the democrats are rolling through have a chance to beat him..

In Turkey Vs. Kurds Dispute, Trump Chooses The Side Where He Has A Condo Complex


The administration is letting Turkey move into northern Syria to wipe out the Kurds, who have long fought Islamic State terrorism alongside the U.S.

link


WASHINGTON ― Donald Trump’s abandonment of one of the United States’ strongest allies in the fight against Islamic State terrorists also happens to reward the authoritarian ruler of Turkey, where the U.S. president personally profits from the Trump Towers in Istanbul.

It is not known whether the residential and commercial complex has ever come up in the various private conversations between Trump and Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan since Trump took office. Seven years ago, Erdogan, then the country’s prime minister, attended the grand opening of the twin skyscraper project, and Trump’s elder daughter Ivanka praised him for doing so.

“Thank you Prime Minister Erdogan for joining us yesterday to celebrate the launch of #TrumpTowers Istanbul!” Ivanka Trump, now a top White House aide, wrote on April 12, 2012.

The White House announced late Sunday night, without consulting U.S. allies in Europe or members of Congress, that Trump had agreed in a phone call with Erdogan to let Turkey occupy a strip of northern Syria, which is currently controlled by ethnic Kurds. The Kurds, who in recent years have proven to be the United States’ most effective allies in the fight against ISIS terrorists, have a centuries-old dispute with Turkey over their right to self-rule.

Critics of the president said the announcement was exactly the sort of problem they have been highlighting since Trump announced his candidacy.

“We’ve warned for years that Trump’s decision to hold onto his business empire, particularly the properties in places like Turkey, would one day lead to a national security decision shrouded by his conflicts of interest,” said Jordan Libowitz, communications director for the watchdog group Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington.

Trump promised during his campaign that he would separate himself from his family business, which holds licensing deals with Trump-branded hotels, golf courses and condominiums all over the world. He reneged on that pledge and continues to profit from the Trump Organization, the holding company that owns the various elements in Trump’s portfolio.

A financial disclosure that Trump filed in May claims he earned between $100,001 and $1 million from the Istanbul project in the past year, the same range he claimed for the previous year. In a June 2017 filing, Trump claimed he’d earned between $1 million and $5 million from the project in the preceding 12 months.

Exactly how much income the Istanbul project brings him, and how much of a tax write-off it generates, cannot be determined because Trump has refused to make his tax returns public, breaking with four decades of post-Watergate precedent.

White House press secretary Stephanie Grisham said Monday that Trump’s decision had nothing to do with the Trump Towers Istanbul building complex. “Of course not,” she said.

Whether the White House press office can reliably represent Trump’s statements or views, however, is unclear. On Aug. 15, for example, Grisham described as “inaccurate” a report that Trump was encouraging Israel to prohibit Democratic Reps. Ilhan Omar, of Minnesota, and Rashida Tlaib, of Michigan, from entering that country. Within an hour, Trump tweeted: “It would show great weakness if Israel allowed Rep. Omar and Rep.Tlaib to visit.”

Previously, Trump’s press office had denied that Trump knew about his former lawyer’s payment to a porn star to buy her silence about an affair she said he’d had with her. In fact, Trump had conspired with Michael Cohen to make the $130,000 payment, and then wrote checks from the White House to repay him.

The White House’s decision on Turkey this week has been criticized by the Kurds, by human rights groups and by Republicans and Democrats on Capitol Hill, including Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell.

Apart from the Istanbul project, Libowitz said Turkish officials, including the trade minister, the defense minister and the ambassador to the United States, have made 14 separate visits to Trump’s hotel a few blocks from the White House since his inauguration.

“We unfortunately have to ask how much he was influenced in this decision by his personal profits from Turkey,” Libowitz said.

Robert Weissman, president of the liberal group Public Citizen, said it’s impossible to know whether Trump was guided primarily by his personal interest in his Istanbul project ― or, alternatively, by pressure from Erdogan based on keeping secret details about the murder of U.S.-based journalist Jamal Khashoggi, who was killed by Saudi Arabian government assassins in Istanbul last year.

“But a potential slaughter is in the making, and the sad truth is that it may be due in substantial part to Trump wanting to protect his licensing fees,” Weissman said.

Well Dems are not the only party. Republicans need to stop supporting this nutjob crook. I really think he may be insane.

Turkey has already launch attacks against some Kurdish forces today after the WH announcement

He has killed people by screwing with Obama care. Now he will be killing others. He is insane. He needs to be stopped.

I disagree. And I do so with all sincerity. I mean it. I'm not playing politics or partisanship here.

His unfiltered mindset is on display with each and every tweet he drops. This isn't insanity we're seeing.
We have a host of other terms that are attached to behaviors/thought processes that present like this:

Senility.
Cognitive decline.
Early Stage Dementia.


Families all over this nation have watched their progenitors reach an age when responsibilities are taken from them. That point is usually reached within the family when the kids confiscate the car keys, and Grampy starts saying the kinds of things that we read in 45's daily tweets. The difference between private families and this family:

Private Grampy is susceptible to phone scams on his land line and emails from The Nigerian Prince.
Grampy45 has America's freakkin' nuclear codes.

Translation: His 'stream of consciousness' reveals a startling lack of consciousness- and a open book to CIA types from foreign countries that do not have America's best interests at heart.

That should scare the s# out of each and every one of us.

Trust the tweets.

They truly represent who he is, where he is, and what he's about to do next.
It's why he has never surprised me, and it's also why he's been played by every traditional American adversary since he walked into the room with no corners.

He's a 3rd rate confidence operator who conned his way into the worst case of "The Peter Principle" ever seen in American history. In over his head and drowning under a tsunami of controversy, scandal and gross ineptitude of administration, his every move forces his support system to play defense, as they are forced to expend 2/3 of their capital on daily damage control. They will never be able to competently execute substantive policy because 45 has no definitive world view he's willing to charge the wall for... which makes him a most useful tool for those who can find their way into his ear.

Half of what he's wanted to do is illegal, and the other half is operated by an executive infrastructure that was inept/insufficient/damaged/deficient from Day One.

I'm not sure what RedMAGACapz thought he was gonna be able to do, even if he was 1/2 the man he sold to them. So far, he's only been 1/10th, and they seem to be just fine with it.

He's screwed the farmers. China is sourcing from elsewhere now.
He's screwed the miners. 4 more companies have closed down since he took office, because his voters thought he could turn a battleship-sized economic system around like a speedboat.
He's screwed the Lordstown GM folks to whom he teased: "Don't sell your house."
And he screwed all those Ohio Valley employees who worked in support industries that relied upon anchors/hubs like Lordstown.

And it's not just here in Ohio. Remember that Carrier plant in Indiana? The one that was so prominently featured as one of Dolt45's early wins? He rat screwed them too.


And some still support him. Even as they or their kin lose jobs and join America's new"gig economy."

So I guess there's no reasoning with them.
What a big f'ng surprise.

I only needed to attend the county fair once, to see how The Game was run. Tons of my neighbors went to the fair every year.

They went to The Fair in November, 2016... and gave their futures to the 70+ year-old Carney Barker with the sprayed-orange fakeass tan, oversized floppy suit, mile-long tie, and the puddle-shallow line of patter.

Hire a clown/expect a circus.

He's not insane.
They are.
And now, they are a cult.
With access to the polls in 2020.

That shriveled prune of a charlatan thinks THIS is where trump loses God’s backing? Not the lies. The extra marital affairs. The more lies. The more affairs. The continued lies... NOT those things, but this? The fact that Pat thinks trump ever had God near him is laughable.

Turkey launches military assault in Syria as Kurdish fighters say warplanes are bombing region

A planned Turkish military operation in northern Syria has now begun, the country's president announced Wednesday, as Kurdish fighters say warplanes are already bombing civilian areas in the region.

President Recep Tayyip Erdogan tweeted that the maneuvers being carried out against Syrian Kurdish forces – which Ankara considers terrorists allied with a Kurdish insurgency within Turkey – are part of Operation Peace Spring.

https://www.foxnews.com/world/turkey-syria-kurdish-troops-military-assault

"Operation Peace Spring" certainly has a nice ring to it.

What a disgustingly shameful black mark on America. Abandoning allies on the field of battle may seem like fun and games to those who never served, but this is as low as you get to the military minded. Trump is scum.

Not sure I support Trump's move here but I lack the facts.

I do believe those who still are serving and their families are glad to be getting out of that crap hole and coming home.

Coming home? You mean joining my military owned nephew in Saudi Arabia defending their oil.

They are also protecting Japan's and Europe's oil As well as China's oil. Luckily we are no longer dependent on Saudi oil.

Too bad we have so many people like you denying climate change and renewable energy. Had we been working on that rather than fighting it for the last generation, we wouldn't be fighting for oil anywhere anymore.

But we have people like you and those hanging onto the old ways while our troops are dying. Great work!

And people like you who were born in a field of dreams and today live in the clouds. Wake up!

People like you have decided to pollute the clouds so badly nobody can spend any time up there.

So, let me say this first: I don't like this move by the u.s.


But, I have to ask: Some on here gripe about the u.s. keeping troops overseas in hot spots. But, only since Trump was president. The mantra was "get our troops out".

Now, u.s. troops are out, and the mantra is "How terrible."

It seems what the military does or doesn't do that SOME like or don't like, is dependent on who the president is. Is that correct?





Get our troops out of harms way. Next day "can't believe our troops aren't in harm's way. Now, innocent civilians are being bombed and it's the U.S.'s fault."

Most people consider that circumstances vary from place to place. It's not a one size fits all mantra for every situation.

In this case the Kurds have been our only real allies in the region that helped us to defeat ISIS. Leaving them to be slaughtered is not a reasonable solution in response to that.

In many cases you can question and even object to why our troops are sent to a part of the globe. We can question the rational used as to why they were sent. Colin Powell tried to warn Bush about Iraq. He made it plain and simple.... “you break it, you own it”.

I'm one who can agree with war when needed and disagree with war when it's not needed. As such, I supported going into Afghanistan but objected to the invasion of Iraq.

Not all situations are created equal.

Sticking by our allies transcends presidents. These are people are fought with us since day one. They are practically family.

Well the air strikes didn't take long to start......

Republicans condemn Turkish assault on Kurds in wake of Trump's Syria decision

Republican members of Congress on Wednesday harshly condemned Turkey's ongoing military offensive against U.S.-allied Kurdish fighters in northern Syria, which follows President Trump's decision to withdraw U.S. forces from the area.

The big picture: Some of the most intense criticism of Trump's Syria decision, which cleared the way for Turkey to attack Kurdish fighters that they consider terrorists, has come from the president's closest allies in Congress. Sens. Lindsey Graham (R-S.C.) and Chris Van Hollen (D-Md.) are drafting a bipartisan bill to sanction Turkey for attacking the primarily-Kurdish Syrian Democratic Forces, which partnered with the U.S. in 2015 in the fight against ISIS.

What they're saying:

Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-S.C.): "Pray for our Kurdish allies who have been shamelessly abandoned by the Trump Administration. This move ensures the reemergence of ISIS. Will lead effort in Congress to make Erdogan pay a heavy price. I urge President Trump to change course while there is still time by going back to the safe zone concept that was working."

House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy (R-Calif.): "A Turkish military advance into Syria threatens to halt momentum against ISIS, directly assaults our SDF partners, and could give the likes of al-Qaeda and Iran new footholds in the region. Turkey should stop immediately and continue to work with the US to secure the region."

GOP House Conference Chair Liz Cheney (R-Wyo.): "News from Syria is sickening. Turkish troops preparing to invade Syria from the north, Russian-backed forces from the south, ISIS fighters attacking Raqqa. Impossible to understand why @realDonaldTrump is leaving America’s allies to be slaughtered and enabling the return of ISIS."

https://www.axios.com/turkey-syria-kurds...c7bf741760.html

Turkey launches military offensive in Syria

https://www.cnn.com/middleeast/live-news/syria-turkey-military-offensive-dle-intl/index.html

Just more useless thoughts and prayers from the right. Time to IMPEACH the TRAITOR.

jc

dont be surprised if the GOP uses this issue to slowly start distancing themselves from Trump overall, essentially using this as a vehicle to claim that trump's behavior is divisive.

its gonna suck that they will use the deaths of our allies as a way to save face in domestic policy, such as an impeachment inquiry, and dont think for a second those in the middle east wont view it as such.

the damage has already been done. we've eroded our trust in the one true ally we had in that region. Erdogan has started the massacre, and the bloodshed is once again on american hands.

"The United States does not endorse this attack and has made it clear to Turkey that this operation is a bad idea," Trump said in a statement released by the White House. "Turkey has committed to protecting civilians, protecting religious minorities, including Christians, and ensuring no humanitarian crisis takes place—and we will hold them to this commitment."

like he held NK to not launching test missiles? lmfao nobody takes trump seriously on the world stage.

Once again you and your half truths.

NO LONG RANGE TEST MISSILES was the agreement and it still stands!

lemme know how that next love letter goes while NK does whatever they want.

Yeah, everybody knew it would happen and told him it would happen. Now all he has left is "shame on you for doing it!"

What a blow hard know nothing Trump is.

These last two posts exemplify the age-old deadbate that has roiled for centuries. Pit is right this time.

My evidence?
This very message board. Notice how we aren't doing this via telegram? How our houses are lit by Edison instead of slaughtered whales?

This is the fact that conservatives must come to grips with: Mankind is genetically hardwired to progress and evolve. As such, History is an endless succession of stories where they get dragged screaming and kicking into the future, while doing everything they can to cling to or revisit the past. ALL of History reads like this. Invariably.

Here is the ultimate, inescapable truth behind this particular fight, and it best said by one of my favorite Soul/R&B bands, Tower of Power: "There is only so much oil in the ground."

It's a finite resource. Ma Nature can't create it as fast as we are burning through it. So... having said that, I'll also tell you this: it's the smart inventors/investors who leap ahead towards renewables. Those who pin their futures to a technology that is already 100+ years old are pursuing a fool's errand.

Darwin was right: evolve, or face extinction.
There are a million reasons for resisting change. None of them actually help to do that. Change/evolution/progress is inevitable. It's why we no longer have the Pony Express. Or rotary phones with party lines. It's why coal can't be saved even with the drastic deregs that are now in place. And it's why 45's "Forward into the past" political schtick is doomed to extinction, as well.

And I say all this after having actually worked in and owned stock the oil industry.

I'll leave you with this piece of advice, imparted to me by my wise Uncle Charles: "Either get right behind this, or get left behind us all."

Feel free to default to your usual disagreeing self. You are much more comfortable in that role, however misguided and anachronistic it may be.

NOBODY!

All I have is, dictators start world wars. We all deserve trump.

Trump is a deplorable human being. It is so sad he is our president.

Even the big oil companies see the future in front of them. They know where we're headed........

These three top oil companies are investing heavily in renewables in 2019

Oil companies around the world have been investing in renewables for some time now but in 2019 Shell, BP and Chevron look to be upping the pace

Three of the world’s biggest oil companies are investing collective billions into renewables in 2019, highlighting what could be the start of a genuine shift towards clean power on the part of the industry’s most established players.

Shell, BP and Chevron have all been making headlines so far this year for their proactive investment in carbon neutral energy solutions and acquisition of renewable power firms.

It’s a trend that has been underway for some time – Shell bought e-mobility company NewMotion, Total incorporated energy efficiency firm GreenFlex and British Petroleum poured money into electric vehicle charging business Freewire.

And yet, across the board, Big Oil spent just 1% of its budget on renewable energy last year, with European firms providing most of the capital and accounting for 70% of the installed capacity.

The signs so far this year suggest the industry could be looking to improve on this – here we profile the investment trends of three oil giants leaning towards clean energy that make the case.


Top oil companies investing in renewable energy in 2019
Shell

Shell has publicly committed to reducing the carbon footprint of its energy products by 20% by 2035, and then 50% by 2050,

In May this year, the oil giant renamed its UK-based energy supplier First Utility to Shell Energy retail, and began serving its British customers with 100% renewable electricity.

The newly-named company will also be offering a range of smart home technology over the course of 2019, with the various measures intended to reduce the costs of charging electric vehicles from home.

Towards the start of the year, Shell also acquired electric vehicle charging firm Greenlots in a bid to claim a bigger stake in the emerging market.

The Anglo-Dutch firm said its new subsidiary will maintain its original brand, but will become the foundation of its electric mobility business in North America.

In an interview with Greentech Media, Maarten Wetselaar, director of Shell’s integrated gas and new energies division, said: “It’s mostly driven by the irreversible choice the world has made to decarbonise, to address climate change and to go to a net-zero energy system.

“And by far, the easiest form of energy consumption that can be carbon-free is electricity.”

“Most of our customers, private individuals and companies, will in the coming decades only be using electricity – so if we’re not in that business, we’ll become marginalised.”

“So to an extent, it’s about survival, but it’s also about, of course, playing a positive role in energy transition – we see the two as equally powerful.”

BP

Almost 20 years ago to the day, BP announced its “Beyond Petroleum” campaign, which aimed to pour billions of pounds worth of investment in to solar and wind energy, but was ultimately derided by the wider community which labelled it blatant “greenwashing”.

Today, the company looks to be gearing up towards a return to renewable energy investment on a similar scale, though it has taken strides to ensure it is more successful this time around.

It has announced an aim to generate CO2 emissions reductions equivalent to 3.5m tonnes every year through to 2025, as part of its Advancing the Energy Transition strategy.

Various actions have been taken towards that end in recent months, with BP $500m (£390m) in low-carbon projects and technologies by the end of 2019.

Earlier this year, the UK-based firm released its energy outlook report, anticipating an increase in the role of renewable energy in the world’s energy mix and outlining its plans to acclimate to this change.

CEO Bob Dudley was quick to remind observes this is only the beginning of his company’s journey, and told Axios: “If someone said here’s $10bn (£7.6bn), go invest it in these new energy technologies, for the good of our shareholders we’re not confident enough to be able to do that yet.”


Chevron

One of the few US oil giants to make substantial investment in the clean energy space, perhaps Chevron’s largest activity in that area is the Gorgon carbon capture and storage project in Australia.

Sold on the promise of limiting its own emissions by 40% by burying up to four million tonnes of CO2 each year, the gargantuan facility has yet to make good on its commitment more than three years after it began producing LNG in March 2016.

As the project’s developer, Chevron is bound by a deal with the Western Australian government to capture 80% of emissions from a submerged gas field over a five-year period and bury them in its reservoir 2km beneath Barrow Island in Western Australia.

The company has been continuing its work to get the CCS element of Gorgon up and running this year, and expects to achieve its goal by the end of 2019.

Its emerging technology venture capital arm, Chevron Technology Ventures, also recently invested in electric vehicle charging firm ChargePoint, after having launched its $100m (£76m) fund in June last year dedicated to supporting new clean energy solutions.

The president of its venture capital division Barbara Burger said: “These are strategic bets, if you will, and they’re really more about getting access and looking under the hood.

“They will inform future action from Chevron, either the use of the technology or where we might want to go big.”

https://www.nsenergybusiness.com/features/oil-companies-investing-in-renewables-2019/

But you know how big oil works. They were born in a field of dreams.

Erdogan doesn't care what's now being said.
He already rolled 45 to get what he wants.
Empty threats won't keep Kurds alive.
It's already started. These people are walking future grease spots.

opps

Dawg, I was talking about this back in 1979.
Some bigwigs from CLE came down (this was when the plant was still owned by Std Oil) to talk concerns with 'the little guy.'

When they asked what they could do to ensure a more secure future (remember- this was during the OPEC oil crisis), I said: "Start investing r&d bucks into alternative energy resources: solar, wind, geothermal. Get out ahead of the curve, because Standard Energy will last longer than Standard Oil."

40 years ago.
Only now are the Big Three doing what I suggested almost a half-century ago.

I never get tired of being right, but I do get tired of saying "I told you so-"

You've heard me say it on this board and I've been saying it for a very long time. Depending on others for your energy source is a weakness. The oil embargoes should have taught people that long ago. Paying $4.00 a gallon for gas should have taught us this not so long ago.

Yet people keep acting like we should avoid leaving that path.

I do believe we are close to energy independent. Not there, but close. Fracking has helped. And in the mean time, solar and wind is helping.

However, solar and wind will NOT supply this country, or any country, with enough power. Period.

It will supply much of it. And when you consider our own oil production combined with the wind and solar we can produce, it would not only make us independent of fossil fuels, it would provide us with a surplus of them. Something that should have happened long ago.

What? Fracking is getting a fossil fuel, isn't it?



Yet people gripe and complain about fracking.

I don't complain about it so I have no idea why you addressed that to me.

I'm not a big fan of fracking. But at this time it's a much cleaner energy source than coal or oil and with all of the production of natural gas it's become even cheaper than coal and is putting coal out of business.

That's an improvement. I'll take an improvement even when it's not perfect.

I'm so sorry I forgot to mention natural gas in my response. Thanks for reminding me it's a fossil fuel. I would have never known otherwise.

So, in all your expertise in any subject discussed, you haven't heard of the environmentalists griping about fracking? Typical.

I have heard of it. That's not in any way what I said. You're having a comprehension issue today aren't you?

You asked me a question and I gave you my answer. I didn't speak on the behalf of anyone else. See, that's part of the problem here. You wish to speak in general terms when you are asking someone else of their opinion.

I'm not one who believes our whole system will change overnight. I'm content to take things one step at a time.

Now if you wish to argue fracking with someone, you may wish to choose someone who shares the opinion you are speaking of.

fracking certainly helped us become more energy dependent, but the issue with it is that we're starting to have some minor man man earthquakes.

also, even you have to acknowledge that there's a certain evolution when it comes to energy.

remember, we use to do things based on sheer man power and nothing else.

coal usage in this country has been going down for decades. while some may try to claim its due to government regulations, the vast majority of the decline revolves around consumer demand and cheaper alternatives. also, its becoming more expensive to even extract the coal to the point where it cost more to extract than its worth on the market.

as such, thats why we have nuclear. its why we have natural gas. its why we have solar and wind.

and the thing with solar and wind is that its very much still raw tech. we havent even scratched the surface on the potential of those two energies.

fracking is fine for now, but sooner rather than later, we're gonna stop and move on to something else. but delaying the inevitable by trying to save dying energy industries like coal and such is pointless. we're making it more painful for those workers when it finally does go belly up. you should check out the situation in Wyoming right now when it comes to coal mining. its bleak.

Turkey begins offensive against Kurdish fighters in Syria


By LEFTERIS PITARAKIS and SARAH EL DEEB
an hour ago
link

AKCAKALE, Turkey (AP) — Turkey launched airstrikes, fired artillery and began a ground offensive against Kurdish fighters in northern Syria on Wednesday after U.S. troops pulled back from the area, paving the way for an assault on forces that have long been allied with the United States.

Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan announced the start of the campaign, which followed an abrupt decision Sunday by U.S. President Donald Trump that American troops would step aside to allow for the operation.

Trump’s move drew bipartisan opposition at home and represented a shift in U.S. policy that essentially abandoned the Syrian Kurdish fighters who have been America’s only allies in Syria fighting the Islamic State group. After Erdogan announced the offensive, Trump called the operation “a bad idea.”

There were signs of panic in the streets of residential areas close to the borders as civilians fled on foot, in cars and with rickshaws piled with mattresses and a few belongings. They included people who’d fled from the Islamic State group only few years ago.


At least seven civilians and one member of the Kurdish-led force known as the Syrian Democratic Forces were killed in the Turkish bombardment, Kurdish activists and a Syria war monitor said.

Near the town of Qamishli, plumes of smoke rose from an area close to the border after activists reported an explosion nearby. By nighttime, there were fires in one of the town’s neighborhoods, apparently ignited by the shelling.

Turkey’s Defense Ministry said Turkish ground forces, joined by allied Syrian opposition forces, had moved across the border into Syria. Shortly after, SDF spokesman Mustafa Bali said its fighters had repelled the Turkish ground attack in Tal Abyad.

Earlier, a U.S. defense official and a Kurdish official in Syria said the SDF has suspended operations against IS militants because of the Turkish operation. The officials who confirmed the suspension spoke on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to provide details on the situation.

Turkey’s campaign — in which a NATO member is raining down bombs on an area where hundreds of U.S. troops are stationed — drew immediate criticism and calls for restraint from Europe. In his statement, Trump emphasized that there are no American soldiers in the area under attack.

“Our mission is to prevent the creation of a terror corridor across our southern border, and to bring peace to the area,” Erdogan said in a tweet announcing what he called “Operation Peace Spring.”

He said that Turkish forces, with Ankara-backed Syrian fighters known as the Syrian National Army, had begun to eradicate what he called “the threat of terror” against Turkey.

Minutes before Erdogan’s announcement, Turkish jets began pounding suspected positions of Syrian Kurdish forces in the town of Ras al Ayn, according to Turkish media and Syrian activists. The sound of explosions could be heard in Turkey.

It was difficult to know what was hit in the first hours of the operation.

Mustafa Bali, a spokesman for the U.S.-backed Syrian Democratic Forces, said Turkish warplanes were targeting “civilian areas” in northern Syria, causing “a huge panic” in the region.

The Britain-based Syrian Observatory for Human Rights said those killed in the Turkish bombardments included two Christian Assyrians in Qamishli, a married couple and their child, a man in a village outside of the town of Tal Abyad, and a child in a village west of Qamishli.

Before Turkey’s attack, Syrian Kurdish forces that are allied with the United States warned of a “humanitarian catastrophe.”

The Turkish operation meant to create a “safe zone” carries potential gains and risk for Turkey by getting even more deeply involved in the Syria war. It also would ignite new fighting in Syria’s 8-year-old war, potentially displacing hundreds of thousands.

A resident of Tal Abyad said one of the bombs hit an SDF office, and he fled with his wife and mother by car to Raqqa, nearly 100 kilometers (60 miles) to the south, to flee the bombing. The resident, who gave his name as Maher, said the road to Raqqa was packed with vehicles and families, some fleeing on foot “to get away from the bombing.”

“People fled and left everything behind,” he said in a text message after he reached safety.

Turkey has long threatened to attack the Kurdish fighters that Ankara considers terrorists allied with a Kurdish insurgency in Turkey. Expectations of an invasion increased after Trump’s announcement Sunday, although he also threatened to “totally destroy and obliterate” Turkey’s economy if the Turkish push went too far.

U.S. critics said he was sacrificing an ally, the Syrian Kurdish forces, and undermining Washington’s credibility. Republican Sen. Lindsey Graham, a Trump ally, told “Fox & Friends” that if Trump “follows through with this, it would be the biggest mistake of his presidency.”

Trump later said the U.S. “does not endorse this attack and has made it clear to Turkey that this operation is a bad idea.”

Trump said he made clear from the start of his political career that “I did not want to fight these endless, senseless wars — especially those that don’t benefit the United States. Turkey has committed to protecting civilians, protecting religious minorities, including Christians, and ensuring no humanitarian crisis takes place — and we will hold them to this commitment.”

NATO Secretary-General Jens Stoltenberg, while noting that Turkey “has legitimate security concerns” after suffering “horrendous terrorist attacks” and hosting thousands of refugees, said the country should not “further destabilize the region” with its military action in Syria.

German Foreign Minister Heiko Maas condemned the offensive, saying it will “further destabilize the region and strengthen IS.” The operation also was criticized by European Commission President Jean-Claude Juncker.

The EU is paying Turkey 6 billion euros ($6.6 billion) to help the country cope with almost 4 million Syrian refugees on its territory in exchange for stopping migrants leaving for Europe.

Fahrettin Altun, the Turkish presidency’s communications director, urged the international community to rally behind Ankara, which he said would take over the fight against the Islamic State group.

Turkey aimed to “neutralize” Syrian Kurdish militants in northeastern Syria and to “liberate the local population from the yoke of the armed thugs,” Altun wrote in a Washington Post column published Wednesday.


Erdogan discussed the incursion by phone with Russian President Vladimir Putin. Erdogan’s office said he told Putin the military action “will contribute to the peace and stability” and allow for a political process in Syria.

In its call for a general mobilization, the local civilian Kurdish authority known as the Autonomous Administration of North and East Syria asked the global community to live up to its responsibilities as “a humanitarian catastrophe might befall our people.”

The Kurds also said they want the U.S.-led coalition to set up a no-fly zone in northeastern Syria to protect the civilian population from Turkish airstrikes.

The U.S.-backed Syrian Kurdish group urged Moscow to broker talks with the Syrian government in Damascus in light of the Turkish operation. The Syrian Kurdish-led administration said it is responding positively to calls from Moscow encouraging the Kurds and the Syrian government to settle their difference through talks.

Syria’s Foreign Ministry condemned Turkey’s plans, calling it a “blatant violation” of international law and vowing to repel an incursion.

Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov accused Washington of playing “very dangerous games” with the Syrian Kurds, saying the U.S. first propped up the Syrian Kurdish “quasi state” in Syria and now is withdrawing support.

“Such reckless attitude to this highly sensitive subject can set fire to the entire region, and we have to avoid it at any cost,” he said in Kazakhstan.

Earlier Wednesday, three IS militants targeted the Kurdish-led Syrian Democratic Forces in Raqqa, once the de facto IS capital at the height of the militants’ power. An activist collective in Raqqa reported an exchange of fire and an explosion; the Observatory said two IS fighters engaged in a shootout before blowing themselves up.

IS claimed responsibility, saying one of its members killed or wounded 13 SDF members.

The SDF, which holds thousands of IS fighters in detention facilities in northeastern Syria, has warned that a Turkish incursion might lead to the resurgence of the extremists. The U.S.-allied Kurdish-led force captured the last IS area controlled by the militants in eastern Syria in March.

___

El Deeb reported from Beirut. Associated Press writers Suzan Fraser in Ankara, Turkey; Mehmet Guzel in Akcakale, Turkey; Nasser Karimi in Tehran, Iran; Nataliya Vasilyeva in Moscow; and Bassem Mroue in Beirut contributed.

Erdogan has been buying Russian equipment, helping Russian interest in the Middle East, specifically Syria, and allowing Muslim extremist to rampage the country.

Then, didn’t even hesitate to start striking our Kurdish allies the moment trump announced we were leaving. And now all we get from trump is tough talk on Twitter.

No honor whatsoever. We might never be forgiven for this. Our already low credibility in the region has no all but vanished.

The blood of every Kurd, the Kurdish children, women and those Kurdish fighters who fought side by side with Americans...their blood is on the hands of every Republican who enable Trump to rule the United States as a dictator.

Trump equates the value of a dollar to the life of a Kurd...that is sad.

Trump dismisses concerns about leaving Kurds at the mercy of Turkey

https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-withdrawal-explanation-syria-kurds-isis-europe-215740775.html

Read the article and his own words. I hate this president so freaking much. I feel so ashamed that 60 million people thought this dishonorable moron was good enough to represent us to the world. What kind of stupid ass response was this?

I hope he gets removed from office. As much as my progressives dislike Pence, he would NEVER say such a thing, nor would he abandon our allies like this trash ass human did.

Screw trump.

No words...

What does this even mean?

““Well, they’re going to be escaping to Europe, that’s where they want to go. They want to go back to their homes, but Europe didn’t want them from us, we could have given it to them, they could have had trials, they could have done whatever they wanted. But as usual, it’s not reciprocal. You know, my favorite word, ‘reciprocal.’ That’s all I want. I don’t want an edge, I just want reciprocal, it’s not a fair deal for the United States.””

Apparently that’s what the Trump supporters consider “being a straight shooter”.

Traitorous Trump drivel.

US soldier in Syria: 'I am ashamed for the first time in my career'

A U.S. special forces member serving with the Kurdish-led Syrian Democratic Forces (SDF) in Syria said Turkey is inflicting atrocities as it invades northeastern Syria.

“I am ashamed for the first time in my career,” the unidentified soldier, who has been involved in the training of indigenous forces on multiple continents, told Fox News Wednesday.

“Turkey is not doing what it agreed to. It’s horrible,” the soldier added. “We met every single security agreement. The Kurds met every single agreement [with the Turks]. There was no threat to the Turks — none — from this side of the border.”

Turkey launched an offensive against Kurdish groups Wednesday in northern Syria after President Trump announced that U.S. troops would withdraw from the area in anticipation of the operation, removing the chief deterrent to Ankara's offensive.

Trump sparked a firestorm in Washington over the decision, saying he does not want to fight “endless wars.”

“The Kurds fought with us, but were paid massive amounts of money and equipment to do so. They have been fighting Turkey for decades. I held off this fight for almost 3 years, but it is time for us to get out of these ridiculous Endless Wars, many of them tribal, and bring our soldiers home,” Trump tweeted on Monday. “WE WILL FIGHT WHERE IT IS TO OUR BENEFIT, AND ONLY FIGHT TO WIN.”

Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-S.C.), a staunch Trump ally and defense hawk, fired back, saying the decision was a “disaster in the making” that “ensures [an] ISIS comeback” and “will be a stain on America’s honor for abandoning the Kurds.”

Turkey has long viewed Kurdish groups in northern Syria, which have worked with the U.S. in the fight against ISIS, as linked with the Kurdistan Workers' Party (PKK), which is labeled a terrorist organization by both Washington and Ankara.

Reports have emerged of several civilians already being killed since Turkey’s military operation began, with the U.S. soldier telling Fox News that Trump “doesn’t understand the problem. He doesn’t understand the repercussions of this” and that U.S. troops are just "sitting by and watching it unfold.”

“This is insanity,” the U.S. service member said. "I don’t know what they call atrocities, but they are happening.”

Defense officials have reportedly expressed concerns that the offensive against the SDF could lead to the inadvertent release of several ISIS members it is detaining. Trump confirmed Thursday morning that the U.S. took custody of two militants believed to be part of an execution unit in case the Kurds or Turkey "lose control.”



“This is not helping the ISIS fight,” the soldier said, adding that many of the ISIS prisoners “will be free in the coming days and weeks.”

https://thehill.com/policy/defense/46514...me-in-my-career

wait, so we'll defend ISIS fighters but NOT OUR FREAKING ALLIES!!!!!!

all you maga hatters need to do the WORLD a favor and dont show up to vote next year, yall have done quite enough.

Putin is loving this.

Mission accomplished.

This is disgusting. Trump handed them over. He has said "Allies are easy to come by." If they take bribes like him, perhaps. But it will harder now. Get a ribbon for his next gift to Putin or whoever calls. Shameful IMO.

There is no excuse to turn allies over to genocide. None.

Single worst thing Trump has done.

Criminal. And when ISIS is back in 6-7 years time and is killing innocents including US citizens, the blood will be on Trump's hands. His unilateral decision without any plan or forethought or GOP support is for his own political agenda and nothing else.

This and his environmental/national park travesties, along with his overall nasty buffoonery, have me wanting his, hopefully, lone term to end as soon as possible. This crap has to end.

Jc

I just want to remind the board that part of the reason why mike Flynn got busted was because he was acting as a foreign agent to Turkey.

And obviously Rudy has been doing the exact same thing.

jc/

Turkey and the Kurds have been fighting for 2 centuries now.
They are back at it after a pause to defeat ISIS.

I for one am glad our 2000 troops are no longer surrounded by tens of millions of people we have never been able to trust in the quicksand known as the Middle East.

Turkey considers the Kurds to be terrorists and wants to push them back, 30 miles from the Turkish border.

Like most of you said about Iran, this is none of our business and not worth one more American life.

I don't remember you calling for their removal before Trump removed them.... and had Trump not removed them, you would credit Trump for his brilliant plan to defend our allies and keep us safe.

We abandoned the only allies we had to fight ISIS. Even most logical Republicans agree on that.

Any one notice what Connolly said in the prank call and what he is saying in the press is two different things? In the call he pretty much agreed the Kurds are a problem for Turkey and they need to deal with them. In the press he is saying that he doesnt like the fact that Kurds will be killed. What did he think the Turkey would do about their problem?

How do you feel about the 25,000 troops we have standing between a million North Korean soldiers and South Korea?

Pentagon announces new troop deployments to Saudi Arabia

https://www.cnn.com/2019/10/11/politics/us-additional-troops-middle-east-iran/index.html

40 doesn’t want to protect our Kurdish allies, but like it when trump bends over backwards for Saudi interest.

Shame.

Everyone with a brain knew what would happen and they were warned by many. The Kurds lack the weaponry to actually put up a legitimate war with Turkey and everyone knew that as well.

They lost over 11,000 troops helping us defeat the ISIS caliphate and abandoning them is how Trump thanked them. Let that be a lesson to anyone who believes Trump can be trusted. The world is watching....

When it comes to Allies, you forget that Turkey is a member of NATO. Yes, Allies.

You and the others will cry about anything Trump does so at least I know our troops are out of that quagmire while you rant.

Here are the facts without our Biased Media and unhinged Left's input...

The Kurds lost over 11,000 men fighting ISIS and we removed troops allowing them to be slaughtered.

Saudi Arabia lost how many troops fighting ISIS? And he is now deplying troops there.

Even the staunchest of your own party disagree with you and your boy.

The US will be hitting Turkey with severer sanctions if they go too far as we work to contain the humanitarian concerns while this plays out.

At least our troops are safe in the meantime.

Last I looked, we are still at war with North Korea.

On 27 April 2018 the Panmunjom Declaration for Peace, Prosperity and Unification on the Korean Peninsula was signed by South Korean President Moon Jae-in and the North Korean leader Kim Jong-un which commits the two countries to denuclearization and talks to bring a formal end to conflict.

Yeah, now the same amount of troop, 2000, are being deployed to Saudi Arabia.
And those sanctions won't bring back dead Kurds.

j/c

Senate Republicans Recoil From Trump’s Decision to Abandon Kurds

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/...o-abandon-kurds

You posted this as if somehow it vindicated Trump's decision ???

Not sure what your point was but the video highlights that the Kurds were allies in helping to fight ISIS and they have been betrayed by Trump.

Also as far as your insinuation that NATO is somehow on board with what Turkey is doing .... nothing could be further from the truth. Europe is totally against what Turkey has been allowed to do because of Trump's move.

If you want to know who this move actually pleases? . . . yeah - Putin. That's not a left thing or a right thing ... that's simply a fact.

This is pathetic. Nobody was hurting Turkey there and that Kurdish region was one of the only safe zones for our troops in the area. I watched soldiers talk about not having to wear flak jackets there because they were well treated and well thought of by the kurds. Kurdish families even have US flags in their windows saying thanks to the US.

Your sack of crap blotus is deplorable.

Newsweek among others are reporting that Turkey just bombed US Special Forces-the artillery shelling of our special forces in Kobani at this point was apparently a mistake

Oops! We attacked your troops!

Thanks Trump.

Turkish artillery rounds land near US forces in Syria, no injuries

https://www.foxnews.com/world/turkish-ar...n-base-in-syria

Good that no US soldiers died for yet another Trump blunder. Kurds aren't so lucky.

Isis militants break out of prison in Syria after bombing by Turkey

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world...VvAjpDSig_jGO5o

I'll take America first policy over Kurd first policy any day of the week. Sorry if this sounds insensitive but I'll stand by that statement.

Personally I think we need to stop being the world's policeman. I do like it though that the people who get upset when we withdrawal from certain places are also the ones who complain about military spending.

Thanks, Obama.
Those ISIS fighters would have never been there to escape, if it wasn't for the troops following orders on your watch.

#trump2020

j/c:

As a person who does not have much knowledge of this particular situation, it's wonderful to come on this board and read all the unbiased takes from both sides that are designed to educate rather than dictate.

Only you would come in here expecting vanilla coverage of the news... come on Vers. And this particular disgrace is a pick-your-side topic for sure.

I like how Trumpians are cool with allies being left to be slaughtered. You cool with all those ISIS fighters escaping too? smh. Dem bash all you want, this is traitorous.

Either choose endless wars, or letting our troops die in them. You can't have it both ways. And here I thought you were all against our troops dying for oil.

Cept they’re not bringing our troops home like trump said. They are moving them to Saudi Arabia to protect their oil fields. You know? The same country that we just sold billions of dollars of weapons to so they can protect themselves. The same country that kills reporters and who treat women like second class citizens.

And the same damn country that most of the 9/1/1 terrorist came from!

Your right, I don't want our soldiers dying for oil. But I also don't want our military disgraced like this, our allies thinking they can't count on us or that we will stab them in the back. In this situation between the Kurds who allied with us against ISIS and our NATO ally Turkey, we needed to be the buffer that kept the two from fighting.

The underhanded cowardice of this spineless Trump action is mind boggling to anyone with even a shred of honor. Spin it any way you want to try and justify it, it's traitorous. And you can bet your ass that this is exactly what Putin wanted too. Trump would sell you out for a cheaper bag of potato chips and never bat an eye.

‘Some of the Most Noble People I’d Ever Met’

U.S. military officers who fought in Syria say they are devastated and ashamed by Trump’s decision to abandon Kurdish-led forces.

On Dec. 20, 2018, the day after U.S. President Donald Trump abruptly announced via Twitter that the United States would withdraw all U.S. forces from Syria, a group of U.S. soldiers set out on a routine patrol through Manbij, a Kurdish-held town in northern Syria.

A member of the Kurdish-led Syrian Democratic Forces (SDF) approached the American troops, according to a U.S. Army officer on patrol that day, who spoke to Foreign Policy on the condition of anonymity. The man broke down in tears, thanking the U.S. service members for their support.

“He took off his unit patch and gave it to me. It was the most emotional moment I’ve ever experienced,” said the officer, who fought alongside the SDF in the yearslong battle to defeat the Islamic State and is one of many retired and current service members who say they are devastated by Trump’s latest decision to withdraw troops from the border, paving the way for Turkey to launch a major attack on northeastern Syria.

Seeing the group’s reaction to Trump’s tweet on the front lines in Manbij “was when I truly found out that the SDF were probably some of the most noble people I’d ever met.”

In the end, Trump partially reversed his pledge, drawing down U.S. presence in Syria by roughly half in the months since the tweet. But nearly one year later, the United States has once again disappointed its Syrian allies. The SDF, the militia largely responsible for liberating Syria from the Islamic State, is now under a brutal assault by Turkish forces, after Trump appeared to give the green light for Ankara to move into northeastern Syria. The total number of fighters and civilians killed in the operation so far was not clear as of Wednesday night, but a conflict monitoring group said more than 60,000 civilians had been displaced.

Current and retired U.S. military officers interviewed by Foreign Policy about their direct experience with the SDF, who spoke on the condition of anonymity in order to discuss sensitive operations, described a group of passionate, fearless fighters, both male and female, who share American values and remain loyal partners even after repeated disappointments. The people interviewed held up the Kurdish fighters as a model of a successful partnership in a tumultuous region, with one retired military officer saying the group was one of the few indigenous units the United States has worked with since 9/11 that have earned its trust.

“Both their competence in battle and their commitment to the mission have been proven over and over,” the retired officer said.

All the people interviewed unanimously said they were devastated by the news that the United States is standing aside to let the Turks massacre the Kurdish troops, and more than one expressed a deep sense of shame.

“I feel physically ill with worry and concern and deeply ashamed that my own country would permit this fate to befall our close allies who did all our fighting for us, when we had the power to prevent it,” said a U.S. Marine who served in Syria in 2017-2018.

Ankara considers the SDF an offshoot of the Kurdistan Workers’ Party (PKK), which has waged a three-decade insurgency in Turkey. Both the United States and Turkey have labeled the PKK a terrorist group. But the retired and current U.S. military officers who spoke with Foreign Policy pushed back on Turkey’s characterization of the SDF as a terrorist threat.

“It is unacceptable to turn our back on them to a tyrant like [Turkish President Recep Tayyip] Erdogan, who views all Kurds as terrorists,” the retired officer said. “There will be a whole generation of U.S. military that will never forget this betrayal nor stop apologizing for it.”

The Army officer who patrolled Manbij described growing close to SDF forces during their time together in Syria, sharing living space and conducting joint patrols. After Trump’s December 2018 tweet, SDF forces were “obviously frustrated” but “insanely understanding” of the U.S. military’s position, the officer said.

During the turbulent weeks after the tweet, American and SDF soldiers stood side by side in Manbij. U.S. troops kept hearing that an order to fully withdraw from Syria was imminent, but week after week commanders said the order had not yet come down, the officer said. Twice during that time period, Turkish proxy forces—which the officer described as a ragtag group of “Islamic gangs”—threatened to cross the border, the officer said.

U.S. and SDF forces experienced a devastating loss on Jan. 16, when a suicide bomber targeted a busy market street in Manbij known to be frequented by U.S. soldiers. The attack killed 19 people, including 15 SDF fighters and four Americans.

“Immediately, the SDF was there. They were helping us in the street even though all this [tension] had happened,” the officer said.

A second Army officer who has worked with many partners since 2001 and spent time on the ground in Syria said the SDF stood out. In the four years since the group was created out of People’s Protection Units (YPG) militia and other regional groups, including Arabs, the SDF has built up an inclusive force of more than 100,000 members, the officer said. It has also established a network of local councils to govern the regions liberated from the Islamic State, building governments that “reflect the populace around them.”

The Kurds provide an “organizational skill that I have never seen before in the Middle East,” the officer said.

The SDF and its political arm, the Syrian Democratic Council, believe in equal rights for women, freedom of speech and religion, and local governance, the officer noted. The group also values education and has a judicial system that is “fair and transparent.”

“This was the first opportunity I have seen to actually achieve our end-state objectives because we had a partner that very closely shares our American values,” the officer said, noting that with the Oct. 6 announcement: “We snatched defeat from the jaws of victory.”

The officer noted the challenges the U.S. military has had in building the Afghan security forces, particularly the high number of “green on blue” attacks that have killed many U.S. service members. By contrast, “I can count on less than two hands” the number of coalition forces who have been killed in Syria over a five-year campaign.

The fighters themselves are “absolutely fearless,” the officer added, describing a force equipped with light machine guns and AK-47 assault rifles—and no body armor. They are “incredibly fair in their heart. … They would rather take casualties themselves than harm a civilian.”

After leaving Syria this year, the first Army officer described holding out hope that the United States would not fully abandon the SDF. But now that hope has been dashed. Hearing the Oct. 6 news that Trump had announced U.S. troops would withdraw from the border, allowing Turkey to move in, the officer said: “I was absolutely crushed.”

The second Army officer reacted with “disbelief” to the White House’s Oct. 6 statement.

“As Turkey attacked, I couldn’t help but feel ashamed, number one, to have been part of it and, number two, that we, America, I believe are violating our values,” the officer said. “America in my mind is still the shining beacon on the hill, but we are not living up to that right now.”

As for the SDF forces the first Army officer got to know in Manbij: “I haven’t been able to get a hold of any of them.”

https://foreignpolicy.com/2019/10/10/kurds-syrian-democratic-forces-us-donald-trump/

I heard about that and my first response was "Why the hell are they going to Saudia Arabia?"

Sick of our troops going to dumb places not worth saving.

I know you think this is about Trump but its really not. The US has been like this for many generations. Its part of the military industrial globalist complex and has been happening for a long time.

Eisenhower warned us about it but we didn't listen.

Leaving your allies to die at the hands of their enemy after they stood beside you isn't something to advocate.

Here is where the actual problem is even if you do think that's what America stands for.

We fought and worked hard to take back the ISIS caliphate. Destabilizing the region as we have done is a huge gamble that ISIS will come back strong to that region.

The only people to gain from this is Turkey, Russia and Iran. It plays into the hands of our strongest enemies.

"The only people to gain from this is Turkey, Russia and Iran. It plays into the hands of our strongest enemies."

No and yes.
Somebody owns a hotel complex in Istanbul.
I've been taken advantage of many times,but I'm not dense enough to not believe that that hotel did not play into this decision.
Money,money,money,and the poor Kurds have none.

I meant from a global strategic perspective. But from a financial standpoint it wouldn't be a stretch to consider that Trump Towers Istanbul played a part.

j/c

Abandoned by U.S. in Syria, Kurds Find New Ally in American Foe

Under fire by Turkish forces, the militia that battled ISIS threw in its lot with Syria’s Russian-backed government.

DOHUK, Iraq — Kurdish forces long allied with the United States in Syria announced a new deal on Sunday with the government in Damascus, a sworn enemy of Washington that is backed by Russia, as Turkish troops moved deeper into their territory and President Trump ordered the withdrawal of the American military from northern Syria.

The sudden shift marked a major turning point in Syria’s long war.

For five years, United States policy relied on collaborating with the Kurdish-led forces both to fight the Islamic State and to limit the influence of Iran and Russia, which support the Syrian government, with a goal of maintaining some leverage over any future settlement of the conflict.

On Sunday, after Mr. Trump abruptly abandoned that approach, American leverage appeared all but gone. That threatened to give President Bashar al-Assad and his Iranian and Russian backers a free hand. It also jeopardized hard-won gains against the Islamic State — and potentially opened the door for its return.

The Kurds’ deal with Damascus paved the way for government forces to return to the country’s northeast for the first time in years to try to repel a Turkish invasion launched after the Trump administration pulled American troops out of the way. The pullout has already unleashed chaos and bloodletting.

The announcement of the deal Sunday evening capped a day of whipsaw developments marked by rapid advances by Turkish-backed forces and the escape of hundreds of women and children linked to the Islamic State from a detention camp. As American troops were redeployed, two American officials said the United States had failed to transfer five dozen “high value” Islamic State detainees out of the country.

Turkish-backed forces advanced so quickly that they seized a key road, complicating the American withdrawal, officials said.

The invasion ordered by President Recep Tayyip Erdogan of Turkey, which came after a green light from President Trump, is aimed at uprooting the Syrian Democratic Forces, a Kurdish-led militia that has been a key partner in the fight against the Islamic State. Turkey sees the group as a security threat because of its links to a Kurdish separatist movement that the country has battled for decades.

The Turkish incursion has killed scores of people, and left Kurdish fighters accusing the United States of betrayal for leaving them at the Turks’ mercy. That is what led them to strike the deal with Damascus, which said on Sunday that its forces were heading north to take control of two towns and to fight the “Turkish aggression.”

Turkey’s invasion upended a fragile peace in northeastern Syria and risks enabling a resurgence of the Islamic State, which no longer controls territory in Syria but still has sleeper cells and supporters.

Since the Turkish incursion began on Wednesday, ISIS has claimed responsibility for at least two attacks in Syria: One car bomb in the northern city of Qamishli and another on an international military base outside Hasaka, a regional capital further to the south.

Mr. Trump has said repeatedly that the United States has taken the worst ISIS detainees out of Syria to ensure they would not escape. But in fact the American military took custody of only two British detainees, half of a cell dubbed the Beatles that tortured and killed Western hostages, American officials said.

As the Turkish incursion progresses and Kurdish casualties mount, members of the Syrian Democratic Forces have grown increasingly angry at the United States. Some have cast Mr. Trump’s move as a betrayal.

The Kurds refused, the American officials said, to let the American military take any more detainees from their ad hoc detention sites for captive ISIS fighters, which range from former schoolhouses to a former Syrian government prison. Together, these facilities hold about 11,000 men, about 9,000 of them Syrians or Iraqis. About 2,000 come from 50 other nations whose governments have refused to repatriate them.

The fighting has raised concerns that jihadists detained in the battle to defeat ISIS could escape, facilitating the reconstitution of the Islamic State. Five captives escaped during a Turkish bombardment on a Kurdish-run prison in Qamishli on Friday, Kurdish officials said.

The Kurdish authorities also operate camps for families displaced by the conflict that hold tens of thousands of people, many of them wives and children of Islamic State fighters.

After a Turkish airstrike, female detainees connected to the Islamic State rioted in a camp in Ain Issa, lighting their tents on fire and tearing down fences, according to a camp administrator, Jalal al-Iyaf.

In the mayhem, more than 500 of them escaped, Mr. al-Iyaf said.

Most of the camp’s other 13,000 residents are Syrian, but there are also refugees from Iraq who sought safety in Syria because of violence at home. By nightfall, some of those people had left the unguarded camp, too, fearing that it was no longer safe, Mr. al-Iyaf said.

“Everyone thought that the camp was internationally protected, but in the end there was nothing,” Mr. al-Iyaf said. “It was not protected at all.”

Determining the exact state of play on the ground proved difficult on Sunday, as the advances by Turkish-backed Arab fighters scattered Kurdish officials who had previously been able to provide information.

The likelihood of an ISIS resurgence remains hard to gauge, since the Syrian Kurdish leadership may have exaggerated some incidents to catch the West’s attention.

The camp escape came hours before the United States military said it would relocate its remaining troops in northern Syria to other areas of the country in the coming weeks.

Defense Secretary Mark T. Esper said in an interview with CBS’s “Face the Nation” that the United States found itself “likely caught between two opposing advancing armies” in northern Syria.

Syrian government troops were expected to enter the city of Kobani overnight.

The Kurdish-led militia said the Syrian government had a “duty to protect the country’s borders and preserve Syrian sovereignty,” and would deploy along the Syrian-Turkish border.

Previously, Trump administration officials argued that keeping Mr. Assad’s forces out of the territory was key to stemming Iranian and Russian influence and keeping pressure on Mr. Assad.

Mr. Trump says his decision to pull American troops out of the way of the Turkish advance was part of his effort to extricate the United States from “endless wars” in the Middle East and elsewhere.

“The Kurds and Turkey have been fighting for many years,” Mr. Trump wrote on Twitter on Sunday.

Mr. Trump also tried to assuage his critics, including Senator Lindsey Graham, the South Carolina Republican who broke with him over the Syria decision and is promising bipartisan legislation to slap economic sanctions on Turkey.

“Dealing with @LindseyGrahamSC and many members of Congress, including Democrats, about imposing powerful Sanctions on Turkey,” Mr. Trump wrote. “Treasury is ready to go, additional legislation may be sought.”

But his decision has had devastating consequences for Syria’s Kurds.

They lost thousands of fighters in battles against the Islamic State and sought to establish a form of autonomous rule in the lands captured from the jihadists. Now that project has collapsed, and it remains unclear what rights they will retain, if any, should they fall back under Mr. Assad’s government.

On Sunday, Turkish troops and their Arab proxies made major progress on the ground, seizing the strategic border town of Tel Abyad and prompting celebrations across the border in Turkey.

In Akcakale, a Turkish border town, residents raced around in cars, flying Turkish flags and honking their horns. Exiled Syrians, many of them from Tel Abyad, climbed onto rooftops to watch the end of the battle as gunfire sounded.

Three wounded Syrian Arab fighters were recuperating in a private apartment near the border in Akcakale after returning from the front line, where they had been shot in an ambush by Kurdish troops.

The men were from an area controlled by Kurdish forces who they said had prevented them from returning home.

“We will not stop,” said Abu Qasr al-Sharqiya, 34, who was shot three times in the leg. “We need our houses back, our children’s homes.”

On Sunday afternoon, Mr. Erdogan announced that his forces controlled nearly 70 square miles of territory in northern Syria.

They have also taken control of an important highway connecting the two flanks of Kurdish-held territory, the Turkish defense ministry said. This allows Turkish troops and their proxies to block supply lines between Kurdish forces — and cut an exit route to Iraq.

It also makes it harder for American troops to leave Syria by road.

Since the Syrian civil war began eight years ago, northern Syria has changed hands several times as rebels, Islamists, extremists and Kurdish factions have vied with the government for control.

After joining American troops to drive out the Islamic State, the Kurdish-led militia emerged as the dominant force across the area, taking control of former ISIS territory and guarding former ISIS fighters on behalf of the United States and other international allies.

With Turkey making increasing noise in recent months about forcing the Kurdish militia away from its border, the American military made contingency plans to get about five dozen of the highest-priority detainees out of Syria.

The planning began last December, when Mr. Trump first announced that he would withdraw troops from the country before his administration slowed down that plan, one official said.

American special forces moved first to get the two British detainees, El Shafee Elsheikh and Alexanda Kotey, on Oct. 9, in part because there was a clear plan for them already in place: The Justice Department wants to bring them to Virginia for prosecution. They are now being held in Iraq.

But as the military then sought to take custody of additional detainees, the Kurds balked, the two American officials said. The Kurds’ animosity might harden now that they have aligned themselves with Mr. Assad, an American foe.

That, combined with the Pentagon’s withdrawal American forces, makes it even less likely the United States will be able to take any more detainees out.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/13/world/middleeast/syria-turkey-invasion-isis.html

So you so want it both ways, just with a dem in charge.

Nobody is fighting for oil in Syria. We withdrew 2000 troops from Syria, defending our only allies in our fight against ISIS, only to turn around and deploy them to help Saudi Arabia protect their oil.

Things aren't always equal. Just like the war in Afghanistan was totally justified, the war in Iraq was completely stupid.

Here is something you probably won't be able to comprehend; I don't care if the President is a republican as long as they are honest, presidential, and doing their best for the American people. I can live with the differences in political views just like if a centrist dem were to be elected. What I can't abide is a crooked ass lying self serving POS in the white house doing nothing but tearing the country apart.

I was hardcore republican when Clinton was being impeached and I never thought that impeachment was the right thing to do. But I thought him doing that while in office was absolutely disgraceful. Trump is a million times more disgraceful and blatantly crooked.

It's not just protecting their oil. It's protecting just about every ally we have in Europe too. Without that oil, their economies crash. I guess you would prefer to cede that area of the world to Iran's control.

Erdogan is now holding 50 US nukes "hostage"


https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/trump-followed-his-gut-on-syria-calamity-came-fast/ar-AAILbg6

lol wth are they trying to do in that picture, shake hands?

You cant cross over and shake, side by side, your hand is always facing the wrong way.

The article from above so those who won't click through can read it:

Trump Followed His Gut on Syria. Calamity Came Fast.

All the warnings were there. But President Trump’s reliance on his instincts, and his relationships, led him to ignore the consequences of a move that has emboldened Russia, Iran and the Islamic State.

President Trump’s acquiescence to Turkey’s move to send troops deep inside Syrian territory has in only one week’s time turned into a bloody carnage, forced the abandonment of a successful five-year-long American project to keep the peace on a volatile border, and given an unanticipated victory to four American adversaries: Russia, Iran, the Syrian government and the Islamic State.

Rarely has a presidential decision resulted so immediately in what his own party leaders have described as disastrous consequences for American allies and interests. How this decision happened — springing from an “off-script moment” with President Recep Tayyip Erdogan of Turkey, in the generous description of a senior American diplomat — probably will be debated for years by historians, Middle East experts and conspiracy theorists.

But this much already is clear: Mr. Trump ignored months of warnings from his advisers about what calamities likely would ensue if he followed his instincts to pull back from Syria and abandon America’s longtime allies, the Kurds. He had no Plan B, other than to leave. The only surprise is how swiftly it all collapsed around the president and his depleted, inexperienced foreign policy team.

Day after day, they have been caught off-guard, offering up differing explanations of what Mr. Trump said to Mr. Erdogan, how the United States and its allies might respond, and even whether Turkey remains an American ally. For a while Mr. Trump said he acted because the Islamic State was already defeated, and because he was committed to terminating “endless wars” by pulling American troops out of the Middle East. By the end of the week he added 2,000 — to Saudi Arabia.

One day he was inviting Mr. Erdogan to visit the White House; the next he was threatening to “totally destroy and obliterate” Turkey’s economy if it crossed a line that he never defined.

Mr. Erdogan just kept going.

Mr. Trump’s error, some aides concede in off-the-record conversations, was entering the Oct. 6 call underprepared, and then failing to spell out for Mr. Erdogan the potential consequences — from economic sanctions to a contraction of Turkey’s alliance with the United States and its standing in NATO. He has since threatened both, retroactively, and Secretary of State Mike Pompeo said later Monday that the president had signed an executive order authorizing sanctions on individuals or associates of Turkey’s government who “endanger civilians or lead to the further deterioration of peace, security and stability in northeast Syria.” But it is not clear whether Mr. Erdogan believes that poses a real risk.

The drama is nowhere near over. Out of necessity, the Kurds switched sides on Sunday, turning their backs on Washington and signing up with President Bashar al-Assad of Syria, a man the United States has called a war criminal for gassing his own people. At the Pentagon, officials struggled with the right response if Turkish forces — NATO allies — again opened fire on any of the 1,000 or so Americans now preparing to retreat from their positions inside Syria. Those troops are trapped for now, since Turkey has cut off the roads; removing them may require an airlift.

And over the weekend, State and Energy Department officials were quietly reviewing plans for evacuating roughly 50 tactical nuclear weapons that the United States had long stored, under American control, at Incirlik Air Base in Turkey, about 250 miles from the Syrian border, according to two American officials.

Those weapons, one senior official said, were now essentially Erdogan’s hostages. To fly them out of Incirlik would be to mark the de facto end of the Turkish-American alliance. To keep them there, though, is to perpetuate a nuclear vulnerability that should have been eliminated years ago.

“I think this is a first — a country with U.S. nuclear weapons stationed in it literally firing artillery at US forces,” Jeffrey Lewis of the James Martin Center for Nonproliferation Studies wrote last week.

For his part, Mr. Erdogan claims nuclear ambitions of his own: Only a month ago, speaking to supporters, he said he “cannot accept” rules that keep Turkey from possessing nuclear weapons of its own.

“There is no developed nation in the world that doesn’t have them,” he said. (In fact, most do not.)

“This president keeps blindsiding our military and diplomatic leaders and partners with impulsive moves like this that benefit Russia and authoritarian regimes,” said Senator Jack Reed, the Rhode Island Democrat and longtime member of the Armed Services Committee.

“If this president were serious about ending wars and winning peace, he’d actually articulate a strategy that would protect against a re-emergence of ISIS and provide for the safety of our Syrian partners,” Mr. Reed added. “But he has repeatedly failed to do that. Instead, this is another example of Donald Trump creating chaos, undermining U.S. interests, and benefiting Russia and the Assad regime.”

The other major beneficiary is Iran, perhaps Mr. Trump’s most talked-about geopolitical foe, which has long supported the Syrian regime and sought freer rein across the country.

Mr. Trump tried another defense on Monday, via Twitter. Clearly sensitive about the critique that he was abandoning a longtime ally, he wrote that “anyone who wants to assist Syria in protecting the Kurds is good with me, whether it is Russia, China, or Napoleon Bonaparte. I hope they all do great, we are 7,000 miles away!”

It was another example of Mr. Trump’s taking a 1930s view of how to defend the nation, ignoring the power vacuums filled by adversaries and making the case that distance is the ultimate protection. The lessons of economic interdependency, the Sept. 11 attacks and the era of cyberconflict suggest otherwise.

As the situation continued to devolve, senior administration officials stepped forward to try to reverse the damage.

In an unscheduled appearance in the White House driveway, Vice President Mike Pence told reporters that Mr. Trump had asked Mr. Erdogan for an immediate cease-fire — part of the executive order that Mr. Pompeo announced — adding that the president had not given a “green light” for Turkish forces to invade Syria.

“The United States of America wants Turkey to stop the invasion,” Mr. Pence said, “to implement an immediate cease-fire and to begin to negotiate with Kurdish forces in Syria to bring an end to the violence.”

He said the president had directed him to lead a delegation to Turkey alongside Robert O’Brien, the president’s new national security adviser, to negotiate directly with Mr. Erdogan.

The horrors that have played out with lightning speed were clearly not anticipated by Mr. Trump, who has no fondness for briefing books and meetings in the Situation Room intended to game out events two or three moves ahead. Instead, he often talks about trusting his instincts.

“My gut tells me more sometimes than anybody else’s brain can ever tell me," he said late last year. He was discussing the Federal Reserve, but could just as easily have been talking foreign policy; in 2017 he told a reporter, right after his first meeting with President Vladimir V. Putin of Russia, that it was his “gut feel” for how to deal with foreign leaders, honed over years in the real estate world, that guided him. “Foreign policy is what I’ll be remembered for,” he said.

But in this case the failure to look around corners has blown up on him at a speed that is rare in foreign policy and national security. The closest analogue may date to 1950, during Harry Truman’s administration, when Secretary of State Dean Acheson described America’s new “defense perimeter” in a speech, saying it ran from southern Japan through the Philippines. That left out the Korean Peninsula, and two weeks later Joseph Stalin, the Soviet leader, appeared to have given Kim Il-sung, grandfather of the current North Korean leader, permission to launch his invasion of the South. The bloody stalemate that followed lives with the United States today.

At the time, the United States kept a token force in South Korea, akin to the one parked along the Turkish-Syrian border. And it is impossible to know whether the North Korean attack would have been launched even without Mr. Acheson’s failure to warn about American action if a vulnerable ally was attacked — just as it is impossible to know if Mr. Erdogan would have sent his troops over the border if that phone call, and Mr. Trump’s failure to object, had never happened.

It was Mr. Trump himself who, during a presidential debate with Hillary Clinton in 2016, blamed President Barack Obama for a similar error. “President Obama and Secretary Clinton created a vacuum the way they got out of Iraq,” he said, referring to the 2011 withdrawal. “They shouldn’t have been in, but once they got in, the way they got out was a disaster. And ISIS was formed.”

Even his allies see the parallel. “If I didn’t see Donald Trump’s name on the tweet I thought it would be Obama’s rationale for getting out of Iraq,” Senator Lindsey Graham, one of Mr. Trump’s most vociferous defenders in recent years, but among his harshest Republican critics for the Syria decision, said last week.

As James F. Jeffrey, who worked for Mr. Obama as ambassador to Turkey, then to Iraq, and now serves as Mr. Trump’s special envoy for Syria, noted several years ago, it is debatable whether events would have played out differently if the United States had stayed in Iraq.

“Could a residual force have prevented ISIS’s victories?” he asked in a Wall Street Journal essay five years ago. “With troops we would have had better intelligence on Al Qaeda in Iraq and later ISIS, a more attentive Washington, and no doubt a better-trained Iraqi army. But the common argument that U.S. troops could have produced different Iraqi political outcomes is hogwash. The Iraqi sectarian divides, which ISIS exploited, run deep and were not susceptible to permanent remedy by our troops at their height, let alone by 5,000 trainers under Iraqi restraints.”

Mr. Trump may now be left to make the same argument about Syria: That nothing could have stopped Mr. Erdogan, that the Russians would benefit in any case, that there are other ways to push back at Iran. Perhaps history will side with him.

For now, however, he has given up most of what little leverage he had.

ORIGINAL SOURCE

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/14/world/middleeast/trump-turkey-syria.html

So pretty much everyone not named Trump has openly said this is a disastrous debacle of epic proportions. I can't imagine how anyone is comfortably with this fool having control of our military and nukes. This is easily the most shameful and dumbfounding military/foreign policy move I can remember in my lifetime.

trump couldn’t figure it out either... even though everyone else obviously had.
#hesamoron

First we have stupid watergate, then we get the most stupid stupid watergate, and now we have stupid ending friendship while losing 50 nukes to a tyrant.

Good game, Trump.

Turkish lira rises as markets don’t take Trump’s tariff threats seriously

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/10/15/turkish-...n-expected.html

It’s ok, the majority of the US doesn’t take him seriously, either. We get it.

Trump, seemingly out of nowhere, decides to tell Turkey that we are pulling out of Syria and will no longer support the Kurds.

Turkey, within days of that announcement, Attacks the Kurds which Trump said they'd do and that ISIS fighters in custody would get free and go back to Europe?

Then the Kurds turn to Assad (commie backed) for help and now feel that the Americans are Cowards.

Europe was thrown under the Bus by Trump with his statement about where the ISIS fighters might go.

Now Trump is saying he'll apply sanctions to Turkey if the attacks to cease, then says he's got it worked out and this morning on Live TV, we see nothing has changed. Turkey is still attacking Syria.

Will someone explain to me, who's the winner in this deal?

After thought, Did the Kurds, as we know them today even exist when the fight at Normandy took place?

Germany existed and they didn't help us at Normandy, should we cut off all contact with them also?

Who are out Allies now?

jc...

Bottom line, Trumps decision to abandon the Kurds and to withdraw without conditions is a huge give away and victory for Putin/Russia.

Trump caved to Putin's desires by leaving the Northern Syria area occupied by the Kurds, knowing that once we abandoned the Kurds, Russia would take over that area.

We must realize that Syria/Russia are now "one", with both military forces working together.

With the Trump administration abandoning the Kurds, they were forced to make a deal with Syria/Russia to protect them against Turkey.

The image of the United States has been damaged, maybe beyond repair. Trump's actions have created an image of "distrust" as the U.S. can no longer be trusted to support it's allies when needed the most. Trump "abandoned" the Kurds but the United States and future Presidents will suffer too, trying to persuade future allies that the United States can be trusted.

The sad part, this entire move by Trump, on his own and without input from the military or anyone in the government, made the phone call to the Turkish leader, Erdogan...as part of a larger deal.

My guess, Putin is smart enough to know what would happen once Trump pulled our forces out...that Putin would have a green light to move in and plant the Russian flag in the area where the United States flag once flew.

That Russian flag will be in the Middle East forever and the oil and minerals under the ground will belong to Russia.

Trump is owned by Putin, willing to use our foreign policy to enrich Putin and Russia...the question is "WHY?".

Either Trump is indebted to Putin and trying to pay back his debt...

Or maybe the Trump is making deals with Putin to enrich himself and the family for future considerations.

Now that Trump has given Putin/Russia a foothold in the middle-east...

UP NEXT, THE UKRAINE !!!

jmho

He’s playing trump like a rented cello.

with 3 busted strings...

Maybe he couldn't figure out the cross hand thing, but he is the only one with a proper handshake format in the chaos.

His improvisational skills don't lend themselves well to the Jazz bandstand.

It requires discipline, total mastery of technique, and the ability to think on one's feet. Operative word is "think," hence the break down.


#sackofhammers

Who have you been listening to? Saudi Arabia lost half it's oil production and gas went up what, about 20 cents a gallon? Saudi Arabia produces about 18% of the world oil. All of Europe isn't going to dry up on oil.

Now allowing ISIS to run free and run loose in Europe on the other hand. You may wish to refer to a map.

The USA look like absolute clowns in this... Hard for this to look worse with how everything has shaken out and how Russia has inserted themselves.

Fools on here would prefer we were at war with Turkey and losing thousands of American lives.

Dontcha know? War is ok, but ONLY when its the war YOU want.

The same crying snowflakes were crying that Trump was mean to NATO for not paying its bills.

Now they Cry Trump pulled our troops and we are not at war with a NATO country.

you do make up some crap.

Your proposition is that the two choices would that America goes to war with turkey or we pulled out Of the region? Complete and utter tosh

Did we get the nukes out of there, yet?

Who knows. I'm surprised this president didn't just detonate them.

Once again it doesn’t take a stable genius to understand that he didn’t send these troops home as he said he was going to do. He pulled them out to Saudi Arabia to help protect his murderous oil king buddy who is killing off and starving his own people in his little ethnic cleansing operation.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world...s-a9157621.html
Erdogan tells Trump that Turkey will ‘never declare ceasefire’ in northern Syria despite sanctions


...but trump told them to? I mean aren’t they afraid he’ll wreck their economy? Oh wait, he can’t become their president to do it like he’s doing it to ours.

https://www.axios.com/treasury-borrowing...329a744797.html
Treasury will again borrow $1 trillion to pay for tax cuts, spending


Well, I know it’s a long shot... but maybe he lied? Is there precedent for such a thing?

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/nyc-audi...&cid=gma_fb
Despite 2001 Vow, Trump Made No 9/11 Donations in Year After Attack, Audit Finds


Who’d have guessed?!?!?

Heard Trump say "it's not our problem" in regards to Turkey invading Syria this morning... Then he justified this statement talking about the trillions spent on wars in the middle east... So his solution is to make us MERCs and sell our military services to the highest bidder. He pulled the troops out of Syria and sent them to Saudi Arabia because "they are paying us"...

I double dawg dare any of the boards Trump supporting posters to justify these actions/statements and still say they support the constitution and traditional values of America.

As I said in my first post on the thread. This is Trump's single biggest failure and screw up as POTUS. Hard to fathom just how catastrophic this is. Latest is Pence and company flying to meet with Erdogan ... and Erdogan is going to stick his middle finget up at the USA and the VP in front of the whole world. Laughable and all preventable accept for the small brain and impulses of our Pres.

Erdogan will not speak to Pence or Pompeo.

Trump this morning called his move strategically brilliant.




Dotard

j/c...

Turkey and the Kurds will either negotiate to work out their differences or they will fight it out like they have for 200 years.

Their choice.

Meanwhile, our troops are safe.

Not a good look on you bro. Trump fled the field like a coward, abandoning allies, allowing a war between allies, allowing Russia, Syria, and Iran to take the lead and control of the territory. Then sent the 'safe' troops to fight for money.

But I see you are cool with all that, so no use in arguing with you.

So you would rather our troops stayed and fought Turkey?
Maybe got killed to make a point we are brave and support our allies?


Easy to say while sitting on you couch.

I'd rather Trump left it alone and things would not have spiraled like this. There was no danger from Turkey and they would NEVER have attacked US troops or Syrian Kurds until Trump gave the green light. You know that but you feel the need to cover for the Dumbass-in-Chief.

Again with the made up fairy tale bull crap that has zero to do with anything happening in reality.

It's like saying "Would you rather Trump left Syria or have the USA nuked by Turkey?" .... yeah well if they were the only two options, I'd surely avoid being nuked. but the only reason turkey is ATTACKING IS BECAUSE DUMB P.O.S. TRUMP PULLED FORCES OUT - a decision that the GOP and DEMS universally condemned. Gosh - it's almost like Trump is trying to do things for Putin. smh

Didnt Trump run on a campaign promise the he doesnt want to police the world?

Why is anybody surprised?

Listening to Trump now with the Italian PM.

Got to hand it to Trump - he is a master at deflection and disinformation and giving his Trump Base fodder. Talking about how the last election was corrupt because of Clapper and Comey etc ! Again - Trump Supporters don't cara about facts and it's Trump above truth or country.

Because with one simple idiotic move, Trump made the world less safe for decades.

Wrong.
Turkey was committed to pushing the Kurds 30 miles from their border and wanted American troops out of the way so they wouldn't get killed in the process.

Trump could stop Turkey with a war, leave our troops in that quagmire for the next two centuries, or get our troops to safety.

I think he made the wise choice.

Now we will punish Turkey with sanctions.

Right, the middle east was safer before Trump came along.

This christmas I hope we all chip in and help you buy a clue! Your "Wrong." couldn't be any more pathetic. This is one of the worst foreign policy decisions ever made by a US President, if not the worst.

He should never be allowed to have one-on-one contact with a world leader without strict adult supervision. And anyone, and I do mean anyone, who thinks that Trump makes sound decisions after this debacle should have their own adult supervision upgraded.

And while you and others lash out with more "Hate Trump At All Costs" emotional garbage...

Our Troops are safe.

“If Turkey goes into Syria, it is between Turkey and Syria. It’s not our problem,"
"The Kurds know how to fight. As I said, they are not angels.”
“We are not a policing agent...It is time for us to go home.”

-President of the United States of America
Donald Trump

Did you ever answer my question as to whether you would apply this same logic to the 25,000 troops we have standing between South Korea and a million NK troops? If you did, I didn't see it. Sorry.

Yes. But you ignored it.

Turkey didn't attack when we were there. they attacked when we pulled out. Trying to change those facts doesn't change the truth. Turkey didn't and wouldn't attack U.S. soldiers. That's why they never did.

Because he turned around and deployed the same amount of troops in Saudi Arabia. So actually he's just policing a different part of the world. Why do people keep buying his BS?

No kidding Captain Obvious.

I guess basic math isn't your strong suit. We were there and Turkey didn't attack the Kurds. The moment Trump pulled out (Stormy Daniels reference), Turkey attacked. Is that math too complicated for you?

Wrong.

Not Policing.

We have lots of troops in Saudi Arabia as we prepare to invade Iran if necessary.

Please stop making up your own facts.

So we now need a war in Iran putting our Troop's lives at risk? Trump ~ All they have is sand, a lot of sand, let them play in it...

I didn't ignore it. I just admitted that if you posted it, I missed it. I even apologized if I missed it.

What a load of absolute junk ....

The troops in Syria weren't policing anything either then - by your warped sense of reality. I guess I shouldn't be surprised by what you type. It's pure Trump propaganda.

Wrong.

We need to be prepared for war with Iran because they have mined shipping, launched attacks on Saudi Oil, threatened to shut down the Strait, etc etc...

Trump has attacked them with sanctions, crippling Iran's economy and now I am hearing about a Cyber Attack against Iran that did major damage, details to come.

No shooting war yet, but it is wise to be prepared in case we have to.

I have documentation to show I posted it and proof you never replied to it.

Unnamed Sources have stated you outright ignored it.

I will be calling for your impeachment from DawgTalkers!

Yes. After this week... 100 times yes.

And FYI - what Trump signed off on by agreeing to move the troops at Turkeys behest was Genocide by Turkey of the Kurds. That's all on Trump. If Trump doesn't move the troops Turkey doesn't attack the Kurds - hell, Trump could have said they plan to withdraw in a month and another nation would probably have stepped in to ensure Turkey didn't commit the genocide they are now carrying out.

Hey but why am I spending time talking to the guy who invents a scenario where the only two options was Trump withdrawing troops or going to war with a NATO "ally"

Bro he's using troops in SA as a US human shield to protect their oil production for money. He abandoned allies in the field in Syria to send those troops. The pitiful excuses don't pass the smell test as demonstrated by the outrage on both sides of the aisle.

You are just Wrong. Needs no further reply.

Here's the difference between you and a Republican.

Republicans have called Trump out on this. Top Republicans, the pentagon and top military officials all stand against pulling out from protecting the Kurds. But Trump stands behind it. You ignore everyone within your own party who actually know what's going on in the world for someone who opened the door for genocide.

Rather than be honest, work within the facts and act responsible, you abandon the experts in the Republican party to blindly spew propaganda supporting Trump.

You are not a Republican at all. You are a Trumpian.

He deserted our allies and now has even resorted to talking smack about them. That's what you're upholding. He opened the door for them to be slaughtered and you support that.

All those voices are taken under advisement but there is only one person who makes the final call.

The Commander in Chief of the United States!

The president's most important duty as commander in chief is to defend the United States, its territories and possessions and its armed forces, from attack.

They weren't under attack and had virtually zero odds of being under attack.

As I said, you went against every Republican that knows anything about it to support Trump. You aren't really a Republican. You don't care that the experts know better. You're a blind follower of foolishness and genocide. You're a blind follower of stabbing those in the back who gave 11,000 lives to stand beside us to destroy ISIS.

Great job.

Even McConnell just came out against it.

anybody who ever disagrees with Donald Trump isn't a real Republican.

I would say it's more like anyone who "never disagrees" with Trump is not a real Republican.

When almost every top Republican and Republican military expert comes out in opposition to Trump pulling out of Syria, how can one ignore all of that and make up the kind of tripe 40 is trying to sell?

Not sure you understood.. in the eyes of a loyal supporter, Trump is the embodiment of what it means to be a republican and to disagree with him is heresy.... it's almost treasonous..

Look at how they have treated fine people who have been republicans for decades.. in favor of a guy who was a democrat and supported other democrats just a few short years ago...

j/c

House overwhelmingly votes bipartisan condemnation of Trump withdrawal of U.S. troops from Syria

The debate in Congress on the issue is extraordinary for the intensity of lawmakers' opinions.

WASHINGTON — The House on Wednesday overwhelmingly to condemn President Donald Trump's withdrawal of American forces from northern Syria.

Despite stark divisions over Democrats' Trump impeachment inquiry, Democrats and Republicans banded together and approved a nonbinding resolution by 354-60 vote.

The resolution states Congress' opposition to the troop pullback and says Turkey should cease its military action in Syria. And the measure says the White House should present a plan for an "enduring defeat" of the Islamic State group.

The House debate was extraordinary for the intensity of lawmakers' opinions.

Republicans called the troop withdrawal "disastrous" and a "catastrophe." Democrats criticized Trump directly, with Rep. Seth Moulton saying Trump "has taken the side of dictators and butchers."

Among senators, Lindsey Graham, one of Trump's closest allies, said Trump's decision will allow IS to reemerge and added that the president will "be held accountable."

Graham said Trump's decision "is against all sound military advice" and that he hopes Trump "will reconsider, stop the bloodshed and reset the table before it's too late."

Graham says that if Trump continues along those lines, "then our foreign policy is in a very bad spot in the Middle East and to those who think the Mideast doesn't matter to America, remember 9/11 we had that same attitude on 9/10 2001."

Another Republican senator, Florida's Marco Rubio, told reporters that he doesn't know what can be done to undo the harm that's resulted from the withdrawal.

Rubio said "there are some mistakes that are not easy to reverse. And there are some that are irreversible."

Many worry that IS may revive itself as Turkish forces attack Syrian Kurds holding the extremists.

For his part, Trump said U.S. troops are "largely out" of a region of Syria where Turkish forces are attacking Kurdish fighters.

Turkey launched a military operation against Kurdish fighters allied with the U.S. after Trump pulled troops from the region this month.

As he met Wednesday with Italy's president, Trump said: "If Syria wants to fight to take back their land, that's up to them and Turkey."

Trump adds: "There's a lot of sand that they can play with."

But as Trump defended removing troops from northeastern Syria, he's also talking up his recent decision to send more troops to Saudi Arabia to help the kingdom defend against Iran.

Trump said the U.S. is sending missiles and "great power" to the Saudis, and added: "They're paying for that."

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congres...HuyKMZ-PyMsvPVM

Wrong.

In the eyes of the loyal supporter, Trump is the embodiment of the outsider come to Washington.

He was both Republican and Democrat.

He is beholden to no one.

He shakes the Tree of Liberty each day and nuts come falling to the ground. The swamp drains.

He has rebuilt our economy and there are now more jobs than jobless.

He has fought off the fake Republicans, yes the RINO establishment, and we voted them into obscurity.

Next we will be cleaning house of Socialist Democrats.

The ONLY thing Trump does and does consistently is pee all over the constitution and institutions of this country. George Will laid out how Trump has no resemblance to what the Republican Party is supposed to stand for the other day.

That's because Trompf knows more than the Generals.
You must have missed the memo.
Trust the stable genius.

#TROMPFtwennytwenny!!!

https://www.breitbart.com/national-secur...sion-continues/

Who knew?!?... I guess Trump is cool with IS now.

Are they saying ISIS is still around?...attacking positions in Syria?

I know that can't be true...Trump said "HE".."HE ALONE" had already defeated ISIS!

GeronimOOOoooooo.

Putin...

Trump might believe it's not obvious to the American people...

Trump knows that his supporters have not figured it out yet...
40..your own quote above is evidence of that fact..you have not figured it out yet.

I tried to lay it out on the previous page when I posted that there is a "common denominator" to Trump's foreign policy.

A wise woman once told Trump that his foreign policy, is not a secret when she told Trump "all roads with you lead to Putin".

Hopefully Trump supporters can now figure it out...Trump is running America's foreign policy to benefit America's enemy, Russia, Syria..not to benefit the United States.

Pulling our troops out of Northern Syria gave Putin the green lite to move in and fill the void. Putin, who is an ally of the Syrian President Bashar al-Assad, who is known best for gassing his own people...Russia will now have a foothold in the mid-east...THANKS TO DONALD!

40=Putin. It’s as easy as 123 abc.

Trump supporters = Putin supporters ?

Trump supporters = Russian supporters ?

I guess those on "right"..aka Republicans...do not understand..PUTIN/RUSSIA ARE NOT AMERICA'S FRIEND OR ALLY...THEY ARE OUR "ENEMY"!!!

Nancy Pelosi To President Donald Trump: 'All Roads With You Lead To Putin'

Trump; "I love the poorly educated."

Pence and Co. in Turkey saying they have negotiated a cease fire and that Turkey will withdrawn and stand down.

They want a safe zone for the Kurds and it will be discussed but as I understand it..it is not a done deal yet.

While it looks like Pence has successfully cleaned up the mess Trump made with his go it alone diplomacy it looks like Putin and Russia still get to take the land in Syria giving Putin a gift wrapped present...a Russian foothold in the mid-east, without firing a shot.

J/c.

So, is this article correct? https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/o...ntion-uncertain

It states

Or, since it states "special forces" were/are there more that withdrew?

It was true and is a "part" of the story. Actually we are using an air strip to move out all equipment and personnel from Syria near the town of Kobani. The things we don't feel we can airlift out are being destroyed.

US conducts airstrike on weapons storage site as troops pull out of Syria

https://www.cnn.com/2019/10/16/politics/us-airstrike-storage-site-syria/index.html

I will say I think destroying munitions we aren't airlifting out is a smart move. No reason to leave anything behind for them only to be used against us or our allies later.

Cease fire for 5 days. 5 days? How will they resolve this in 5 days?

I'm watching Trump claim victory with "AN AMAZING OUTCOME"... I deeply hope this is an actual win for team Trump. I won't be holding my breath and fully expect it to continue to spiral after this 5 day reprieve.

Thought I read an early article talking about drawing down 2500 troops or that many being redeployed to SA.

We are taking 2000 out of Syria and sending 2000 to Saudi arabia. People like Trump and 40 call that, "bringing our troops home."

So now Trump is doing a 180* turn with American soldiers going back in to do what they were doing before someone decided to pull them out. Our soldiers will once again be in the region to control the ISIS threat and insure the Kurds do not get slaughtered.


But, the ultimate prize, the give away of Northern Syrian land to Putin and the Russians will be gifted to them by Trump. As a wise woman once said to Trump, all your roads lead to Russia.

Trump loves Russia and obviously, so do the Trump supporters.

So, no one has given a definitive answer. Was it 50-100 troops withdrawn? Was it the 2000? Or does no one know?

I gave you the answer and a source that explains it.

Do you have a link to the 2000? I didn't see that.

There have been estimates that range from 1000 to 2000. So no, I can not give you an exact number.

Pence announces Turkey has agreed to temporary ceasefire in Syria

Vice President Mike Pence announced from Ankara on Thursday that Turkey has agreed to cease its military operation in northern Syria for 120 hours so that Kurdish forces can withdraw from the area.

The big picture: Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan previously said that he would "never" agree to a ceasefire, after the U.S. withdrawal from northern Syria paved the way for Turkey to begin a military assault on U.S-allied Kurdish forces that they view as terrorists.

The breakthrough came after five hours of negotiations between Pence and Erdogan and followed the authorization of sanctions against Turkish officials earlier this week by President Trump.

• As part of the deal, Pence said that the U.S. would not implement any more sanctions on Turkey and that it would revoke all economic punishments once a permanent ceasefire takes effect.
• Pence also said Turkey agreed to re-commit to countering ISIS and to cooperate with the U.S. on securing ISIS detainees and guarding prison camps in Syria.
• After Pence's announcement, Turkey's Foreign Minister Mevlut Cavusoglu said: "This is not a ceasefire. We will pause the operation for 120 hours in order for the terrorists to leave. We will only stop the operation if our conditions are met."

What to watch: The Kurds must now leave their territory in 120 hours. Asked by a reporter whether there is a future for Syrian Kurds, Pence said that the agreement today ends immediate violence, which is what Trump sent the U.S. delegation to Ankara do.

Between the lines: The agreement gives Turkey what it wants — the removal of sanctions and support for a "safe zone" free of YPG forces that they view as an extension of the Kurdish Workers' Party, which has carried out an insurgency inside Turkey for decades.

• Significant harm, however, has already been done. Hundreds of Kurds have been killed, thousands have been displaced, and at least 1,000 ISIS prisoners and supporters have escaped prison camps since Trump's decision to move U.S. troops out of northern Syria.

What they're saying: Trump told reporters Thursday, "It's a great day for the United States, it's a great day for Turkey ... it's a great day for the Kurds. It's really a great day for civilization. ... I just want to thank and congratulate President Erdogan. He's a friend of mine and I'm glad we didn't have a problem because frankly he is a hell of a leader and a tough man, a strong man."

https://www.axios.com/pence-announces-turkey-ceasefire-c0af5cc3-b8b2-4531-bced-12b6aa881faa.html

Does this sound like a win to anyone? Kurds are now displaced refugees or they will have to fight Turkey to the death. US has egg on its face. Erdogan gets what he wants and Putin no doubt played a part. I'm happy that the remaining Kurds have a chance to avoid slaughter, but this all still sucks and was a dumbfoundingly stupid thing for Trump to do.

It's a start. We will have to wait to see where it goes from here.

Of course Trump's comments about it are exaggerated, speculative and non factual for a great extent, who expects anything else?

But let's be honest here, if Trump can actually clean up one of his own messes for a change, that would be an improvement.

.

Day one, Trump pulls our troops out to safety.

Day two, a fire starts as Turkey moves to secure its border.

Day three, Trump threatens to crush Turkey's economy.

Day five, our troops are out and safe, the Kurds are safe, the fire is out and everyone will celebrate with Turkey. Maybe mashed and Cranberry sauce too.

Negotiations have begun and 200 years of war are possibly solved.

Not bad there Mr.President.

Thanks.

I posted a link that said 50-100. I asked a question as to weather that was accurate. And no one has been able to supply an answer with a link.

I was just asking.........

2000 troops deployed to Saudi Arabia.

Temporary cease fire hoping hoping he can find a permanent way out of the mess he created.

Thanks. How many were taken away from where Turkey started aggression's?

According to Richard Engel, Turkey played us and got everything they wanted.
We gave the Kurds home land to their sworn enemy.

Another day, another screw up

What's troublesome is you even believe some of that.

Thanks. Yet another non answer to my question.

who is Richard Engel?

Per Wiki...

Richard Engel (born September 16, 1973) is an American journalist and author who is NBC News' chief foreign correspondent. He was assigned to that position on April 18, 2008, after being the network's Middle East correspondent and Beirut Bureau chief. Engel was the first broadcast journalist recipient of the Medill Medal for Courage in Journalism for his report "War Zone Diary".

Prior to joining NBC News in May 2003, he covered the start of the 2003 war in Iraq from Baghdad for ABC News as a freelance journalist. He speaks and reads Arabic fluently and is also fluent in Italian and Spanish. Engel wrote the book A Fist in the Hornet's Nest, published in 2004, about his experience covering the Iraq War from Baghdad. His newest book, And Then All Hell Broke Loose, published in 2016, is about his two decade career in the Middle East as a freelance reporter.

Engel is known for having covered the Iraq War, the Arab Spring and the Syrian Civil War.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Engel

Our Republic Is Under Attack From the President
If President Trump doesn’t demonstrate the leadership that America needs, then it is time for a new person in the Oval Office.

By William H. McRaven
Admiral McRaven is a former commander of the United States Special Operations Command.
Oct. 17, 2019

608

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CreditCreditDamon Winter/The New York Times
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Last week I attended two memorable events that reminded me why we care so very much about this nation and also why our future may be in peril.

The first was a change of command ceremony for a storied Army unit in which one general officer passed authority to another. The second event was an annual gala for the Office of Strategic Services (O.S.S.) Society that recognizes past and present members of the intelligence and Special Operations community for their heroism and sacrifice to the nation. What struck me was the stark contrast between the words and deeds heralded at those events — and the words and deeds emanating from the White House.

On the parade field at Fort Bragg, N.C., where tens of thousands of soldiers have marched either preparing to go to war or returning from it, the two generals, highly decorated, impeccably dressed, cleareyed and strong of character, were humbled by the moment.

They understood the awesome responsibility that the nation had placed on their shoulders. They understood that they had an obligation to serve their soldiers and their soldiers’ families. They believed in the American values for which they had been fighting for the past three decades. They had faith that these values were worth sacrificing everything for — including, if necessary, their lives.
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Having served with both officers for the past 20 years, I know that they personified all that is good and decent and honorable about the American military with genuineness of their humility, their uncompromising integrity, their willingness to sacrifice all for a worthy cause, and the pride they had in their soldiers.

Later that week, at the O.S.S. Society dinner, there were films and testimonials to the valor of the men and women who had fought in Europe and the Pacific during World War II. We also celebrated the 75th anniversary of D-Day, recognizing those brave Americans and allies who sacrificed so much to fight Nazism and fascism. We were reminded that the Greatest Generation went to war because it believed that we were the good guys — that wherever there was oppression, tyranny or despotism, America would be there. We would be there because freedom mattered. We would be there because the world needed us and if not us, then who?

Also that evening we recognized the incredible sacrifice of a new generation of Americans: an Army Special Forces warrant officer who had been wounded three times, the most recent injury costing him his left leg above the knee. He was still in uniform and still serving. There was an intelligence officer, who embodied the remarkable traits of those men and women who had served in the O.S.S. And a retired Marine general, whose 40 years of service demonstrated all that was honorable about the Corps and public service.

But the most poignant recognition that evening was for a young female sailor who had been killed in Syria serving alongside our allies in the fight against ISIS. Her husband, a former Army Green Beret, accepted the award on her behalf. Like so many that came before her, she had answered the nation’s call and willingly put her life in harm’s way.

For everyone who ever served in uniform, or in the intelligence community, for those diplomats who voice the nation’s principles, for the first responders, for the tellers of truth and the millions of American citizens who were raised believing in American values — you would have seen your reflection in the faces of those we honored last week.
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But, beneath the outward sense of hope and duty that I witnessed at these two events, there was an underlying current of frustration, humiliation, anger and fear that echoed across the sidelines. The America that they believed in was under attack, not from without, but from within.

These men and women, of all political persuasions, have seen the assaults on our institutions: on the intelligence and law enforcement community, the State Department and the press. They have seen our leaders stand beside despots and strongmen, preferring their government narrative to our own. They have seen us abandon our allies and have heard the shouts of betrayal from the battlefield. As I stood on the parade field at Fort Bragg, one retired four-star general, grabbed my arm, shook me and shouted, “I don’t like the Democrats, but Trump is destroying the Republic!”

Those words echoed with me throughout the week. It is easy to destroy an organization if you have no appreciation for what makes that organization great. We are not the most powerful nation in the world because of our aircraft carriers, our economy, or our seat at the United Nations Security Council. We are the most powerful nation in the world because we try to be the good guys. We are the most powerful nation in the world because our ideals of universal freedom and equality have been backed up by our belief that we were champions of justice, the protectors of the less fortunate.

But, if we don’t care about our values, if we don’t care about duty and honor, if we don’t help the weak and stand up against oppression and injustice — what will happen to the Kurds, the Iraqis, the Afghans, the Syrians, the Rohingyas, the South Sudanese and the millions of people under the boot of tyranny or left abandoned by their failing states?

If our promises are meaningless, how will our allies ever trust us? If we can’t have faith in our nation’s principles, why would the men and women of this nation join the military? And if they don’t join, who will protect us? If we are not the champions of the good and the right, then who will follow us? And if no one follows us — where will the world end up?

President Trump seems to believe that these qualities are unimportant or show weakness. He is wrong. These are the virtues that have sustained this nation for the past 243 years. If we hope to continue to lead the world and inspire a new generation of young men and women to our cause, then we must embrace these values now more than ever.

And if this president doesn’t understand their importance, if this president doesn’t demonstrate the leadership that America needs, both domestically and abroad, then it is time for a new person in the Oval Office — Republican, Democrat or independent — the sooner, the better. The fate of our Republic depends upon it.

William H. McRaven, a retired Navy admiral, is a former commander of the United States Special Operations Command and former chancellor of the University of Texas system.

I am glad to hear the Kurds are happy. Tell me more oh great one.

Kurds have lost their land and are being slaughtered by Turkey. The only ones happy are Putin and Turkey ... Were you being sarcastic?

The great one said they were happy they must be happy!
40 you agree dont you?

Look arch, why do you keep asking questions you can find the answers to? Why do you expect me to do your homework for you?

Sources are everywhere. If your so interested in the answers, go find them. I'm tired of playing tutor to a grown man.

It's not how many were taken away. It's where they were taken away from. That's a hint for a key you should look for in your hunt for truth.

I think Arch is just trying to get you to speak out of the top end of your body for a change.

just sayin'

40 ... Care to comment on the Kurds being happy like trump says?

That's a great response to say nothing at all. We're used to it.

Army National Guard captain: US withdrawal from Syria 'immoral' and 'un-American'

Alan Kennedy, a captain in the Colorado Army National Guard who spent the summer serving in northern Syria, said in a recent video that President Trump’s removal of U.S. troops from the region is “immoral” and “un-American.”

“Weeks ago, our commander in chief announced he was pulling our last troops out of the region,” Kennedy told The New York Times in a video published Friday. “Ever since, I haven’t been able to sleep at night."

"Our complete withdrawal from Syria is unstrategic, immoral and ultimately un-American,” he said, adding, “I can’t believe President Trump let this happen … I strongly believe the president’s decision may prolong a war, rather than end it.”

While echoing Trump’s sentiment that the U.S. should “end endless wars,” Kennedy said “building alliances, maintaining stability in the region and supporting our allies” is how to be successful. He referenced his meetings with Kurdish allies who joined American troops in fighting against ISIS forces in the region.

“I met a Kurdish fighter who asked me if we would ever leave Syria. I reassured him, ‘Of course the U.S. would never leave Syria and abandon the Kurds.’ They’re our partners,” Kennedy said. “I was wrong.”



Trump has faced backlash from lawmakers and service members after the White House abruptly announced earlier this month that U.S. troops would be pulled from northern Syria — a move that GOP and Democratic critics say paved the way for Turkey to launch a military offensive against the Kurds in the area, abandoning forces who were a key ally in fighting against the Islamic State.

Trump administration officials touted what they called a victory after Vice President Pence announced Thursday that the U.S. and Turkey had reached a ceasefire to suspend Ankara’s incursion into northern Syria, but Turkey's foreign minister later said the agreement was “not a ceasefire.”

https://thehill.com/policy/defense/46656...and-un-american

jc

just so everyone is on the same page.

those troops Trump pulled out of syria? well, surprise!! they aren't actually coming home. instead they are being relocated to western Iraq to help fight ISIS.

ya know, the same ISIS trump declared victory over. he claimed they were defeated.

so that means we simply ADDED more troops into the middle east with the recent deployment of 2k, we didn't reduce any military personnel there.

we abandoned our allies to get slaughtered by Turkey, only to move those troops BACK into iraq to fight the same enemy we claimed was defeated.

i hope you trump supporters are proud of yourselves.

because from my end, you all are an embarrassment.

TRUMP: “It's time to bring our soldiers back home."

Fake news – ABC falsely portrays Kentucky shooting range as Syria battle scene

https://nypost.com/2019/10/15/abc-news-airs-purported-syrian-war-video-but-its-really-from-kentucky/

But there is NO media bias.

At least the Kurds are happy .. right?

Well, for a people without a country of their own, they still have the lands they occupy in Syria.

Really? wow. and they are happy right? Thats what trump said. Thats not fake news is it?

Well, if they back away from the Turkish border 30 miles to create the buffer zone Turkey wants, Turkey will be finished and allow them to keep the rest of their lands. (says Turkey)

Assad of Syria is who they really must fear because the lands they occupy were once his.

They probably have a better chance of holding off Syria than they do Turkey.

They may end up with a homeland yet.

I sure am glad our boys are not surrounded in this mess but are safe.

And Trump never lies so they must be happy right?

No more than anyone else in Washington.

The Press reports it when he does it. Or twists it to look that way.
The others, not so much.

Trumps letter to Erdogan...

In his Oct. 9 letter to Erdogan, first obtained by the Fox Business Network's Trish Regan, Trump adopted a similarly familiar tone.

"Let's work out a good deal!" Trump began. "You don't want to be responsible for slaughtering thousands of people, and I don't want to be responsible for destroying the Turkish economy - and I will. I've already given you a little sample with respect to Pastor Brunson." Brunson was held as a prisoner in Turkey for two years before the Trump administration secured his release.

Trump continued: "Don't let the world down. ... History will look upon you favorably if you get this done the right and humane way. It will look upon you forever as the devil if good things don't happen. Don't be a tough guy. Don't be a fool. I will call you later."

CNN's Brian Stelter calls out ABC News' gun-range video error: Network 'has not explained what happened'

https://www.foxnews.com/media/abc-news-syria-video-gun-range-cnn


Pot meet Kettle!

I thought you were a Trump supporter?

Why you post something that proves what a freaking moron he is.

Vernacular Manslaughter.

Try "Why do you post..."

It's great that a reputable news source like CNN called out ABC.

You are good for a belly laugh from time to time lil buddy. That's Funny.

Richard Engel From NBC news Said today that he talked to the head of the Kurds military and was told that he believed the Turks were going to start ethnic cleansing of the Kurds.

It seemed from their actions that the Kurds were not real happy. They on a couple occasions tried to block the road to stop us from leaving and were holding up signs asking us to stay and when we drove by, they threw rotten veggies at our vehicles

anybody see the new Russia and Turkey deal that just dropped?

Turkey allies up with Russia, slap in the face to NATO and the US, and Putin gets a massive win.

meanwhile, our allies got screwed, and the US just took a big, fat, massive L.

Those pee tapes are powerful motivators.

#leningradleverage

Meanwhile we have nukes there in Turkey that will now have to be moved.

already saw this, but just posting it from fox news instead of other reliable sources that way the MAGA hatters cant claim fake news:

More than 100 ISIS prisoners in Syria are on the loose following Turkey’s invasion, US envoy says

https://www.foxnews.com/world/isis-prisoners-escape-syria-turkey-invasion

lets be clear here, conservatives and republicans would've DESTROYED obama for making the decisions that trump has made with regards to the Kurds and Turkey.

so, ISIS fighters released and on the run

our allies are getting slaughtered

Turkey furthers their alliance with Russia

Putin pops champagne as he has now gained more power

and the trump supporters go "but her emails"

Not to mention that the Saudis and Israel now have to work with Putin to protect their borders. They can't count on the US.

j/c