Trump deserves credit in some areas. I've always said that - recently I've seen posters once again lavish praise on Trump while remaining wholly ignorant of how Obama was outperforming Trump in some of these same areas where Trump deserves credit.

Here's two examples: Jobs and Economy.

During Trump's first 35 months in office, the US economy has gained 6.69 million jobs. But during a comparable 35-month period at the end of Obama's tenure, employers added 7.96 million jobs, or 19%, more than what has been added since Trump took office.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/02/06/economy/trump-obama-jobs-comparison/index.html

Using the same GDP metric of consumer spending plus business investment adjusted for inventory changes, Obama’s last three years in office had growth rates of at least 2.17% and as high as 3.06%.

For Trump the high point was 2.83% in 2018 when the tax cut seems to have had the largest impact and even fell short of Obama’s 2014 and 2015 growth rates of 3.06% and 3.05%, respectively.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/chuckjones/...s/#5e57fc624fed

Yeah but how is the deficit doing?

#inconvenienttruth

Pretty much the same as it has under every president in..............how long?

Look, I hate it now, I hated it years ago......it's just how the gov't. goes. The cuts needed to even balance, let alone pay down our deficit? Ain't happening now, didn't happen in the past. Ticks me off, no doubt, just as it did 5 rears ago, or 20 years ago.

I am not a Trump fan by any means but I think that is an unfair representation. How much of that increase in debt is secondary to interest from pre-existing debt?

It is harder to add jobs when unemployment is low. Unemployment is currently at a level lower than the natural unemployment rate.

Cherry picking individual statistics isn't a very good argument. Many things are interrelated in the economy. The recent "slow down" is probably correlated to the uncertainty of the impeachment process as much as anything.

Honestly, this just feels like someone trying to distract from the DNC's latest fiasco.

I'm really not trying to defend Trump, but this is a non-story. Trump's not adding jobs because they aren't needed by the economy right now.

There are plenty of things to dislike about Trump. This particular set of facts seem specious, though. At the least, the way they were framed seems misleading.

Facts are a liberal invention!

The only information worth anything is the Bible in the Chapter of Ronnie where it’s cited in chapter 1 verse 1 “Thou wealth will trickle down and not be taxed.” The other fact from this book comes from the book of Drumpf Chapter 1 verse 1 that states “We may grab them...”

There are facts and then there are lacts, which are the liberal interpretations of facts. Conservatives have their cacts, too.

silly MGH, truth isnt truth.

This is not a post about disliking Trump. These are not spurious facts created with the aim of ignoring some things while pumping up others. . . these are time honored, traditional measuring tools for the economy, DOW, unemployment numbers.

Yes - as Unemployment goes lower - it is harder or impossible to maintain the same rate of reduction as a %. No one is denying that.

What this information demonstrates - factually - is that Trump has done well. He's basically continued to do as well as Obama on many/most of the standard ways the economy is measured. But what the Trump faithful are now preaching is that Obama didn't have any success with the economy, and that Trump has single handedly turned Obama's failure around and built success.... That is an obvious lie that is being perpetuated by folks who simply parrot Trump.

And while the deficit (not part of my OP) has been growing under every POTUS - [1] The right were frothing at the mouth over Obama's deficit increases. Despite most of his deficit increase being the effort to turn around and stimulate the economy (which worked) [2] Trump proclaimed he would reduce (eliminate) the deficit. Clearly that's not happening. This is an area where Trump does deserve heavy scrutiny and criticism. Obama inherited a chit sandwich of an economy. Trump inherited a strong & booming economy.

then you need to explain why the deficit was lowering under obama if you think you're even remotely correct.

because that is a FACT that has been shown to you over and over again, that obama lowered the deficit.

then you need to explain to the board why you havent criticized trump ONCE over the deficit. you wouldnt shut the hell up under obama, so, keep that same energy.

lets see it.

I wonder if some of the issue is that people compare Trumps first three years to Obamas first three years..

Obama inherited a mess.. We were in Free Fall financially.. Unemployment around 10%, Banks closing, car makers in trouble, losing 250,000 jobs or more every month etc.

Trump inherited a booming economy..Jobs being created were high, unemployment was 4.3% roughly.

But trump told everyone that would listen that Obama was a disaster.. he was anything but. he lied, fools bought it, and here we are. Living in an alternate universe where right is wrong, lies are truth.

One can if they wish, believe Trump, or they could do some research and find out that he's just a lying sack of excrement.

Folks just need to accept that the debt is NEVER going away. It is a PLANNED portion of the economy. You cannot reduce government spending by that much without also reducing GDP by that much because government spending is literally a 41% portion of GDP. It isn't equal to that much of GDP, it itself makes up that much of GDP.

The fastest way to show improvement in the economy is to increase spending; debt goes up, but you get to point to a higher GDP. Furthermore, there is the aspect of how much of the country is employed by the federal government; reducing spending enough to eliminate the deficit would cause so many layoffs as to financially incapacitate the country.

Lastly, we come to lending and return on spending: we borrow to spend and lend. Both are done in a manner that, over time, generates more revenue coming back in than what we borrowed... e.g. we borrow at 1.0%, the Fed lends to banks at 1.5%, banks lend to us at 2.5%. It is an oversimplification, but good enough for illustration purposes.

The problem is believing someone who is the self proclaimed "King of debt" is going to fix it.

There's also something many refuse to address. There are certain safeguards one uses when an economy begins to falter. The biggest tools at your disposal are tax cuts and cutting the interest rates.

Using those tools during a strong economy erodes those safe guards. What it does is inflate an already good economy and make it look batter than it actually is and insure you have exhausted the tools you will need if the economy takes a drastic down turn.

Our Keynesian Economic Model (Read the Economic Consequence of Peace by John Maynard Keynes) is flawed and will eventually lead to our government going completely insolvent.

The reason we are involved in so many wars and conflicts is because this deficit spending system we have pretty much requires it. Without Wars, Police Actions, Skirmishes, whatever you want to call it, we can't gain the necessary economic stimuli to make deficit spending work.

We haven't stopped Deficit spending since the FDR administration, and ALL OF US are poorer now then a family in 1913.

Your dollar today is worth LESS than 1 cent compared to the dollar of 1913. A person making 200 dollars per month in 1913 is making more money than someone making 80,000 dollars per year today. The 1913 1.00 dollar could buy close to 20.00 dollars worth of 2020 gasoline today due to buying power.

We should NEVER accept debt the way things are, its doing nothing more than impoverishing ALL of us. why do you think most families in this country have less than 1,000 bucks in savings and are paying mortgages well into their 80's

My Grandparents paid their house off and the 30 acres of property they owned in 12 years, and they were classified as poor back then lol! Today, you kidding me? Very few people unless they are old actually are not in debt to a bank for a house.

This debt has stolen the American dream and folks think its good. Its nuts...

this debt is wholly created by design, every year they print more money, and every year only the highups that loan out the money get any benefit...by the time the money gets to us its worthless and they have raised prices X% while the higher ups, your rulers, continue to profit off your misery

“By this means the government may secretly and unobserved, confiscate the wealth of the people, and not one man in a million will detect the theft.”

; John Maynard Keynes, The Economic Consequences of the Peace

You can beat the system by buying gold and silver.

Buying gasoline back in the day when it cost 20 cents per gallon, you could buy that same gallon of gasoline today with those same two dimes.

The silver value of each of those dimes is $1.18 today.

The value of an ounce of gold back in the day would buy you a suit, shoes, shirt, tie and a 2 weeks worth of groceries.

Today you can buy those same items with with an ounce of gold.

Too much to get into here, but out of respect for you, I'll try. First, remember: the gov't. keeps about 3 books, okay? Also, there is the deficit, the total debt (everything the gov'.t owes, even to itself. ) and the public debt (what the gov't. owes to others) And I won't even factor in the unfunded liabilities the fed. gov't. has. That number would astonish people. Look up David Walker, comptroller of the U.S. for some, I don't remember exactly - some 20 years.

The deficit under Obama was decreasing. Perhaps several reasons for that. But, you are correct in that.

What you omitted is the DEBT grew by some $8 trillion in his 8 years. 2nd highest increase in the debt, ever. Right behind Trump, who I believe has the highest debt increase ever, if memory serves me. Took Obama 8 years to set the record, and it's taken Trump 3 years to break that record. (third on the list is W)

That covers the last 19 years.

There's a spending problem. R, D, whoever. There's a spending problem.

How does a decreasing deficit lead to exponential increases in the debt? Look at the books. How spending is classified, ? Which books to look at?


And, I just stated in my original post that I hate it now, and I hated it years ago. What percentage of gov't. revenue (taxes) goes to just paying the interest on the debt?



You asked, I replied. Now, go ahead and rip my post apart as you are wont to do.

It's been mentioned - but Obama spent Trillions on the Stimulus to get the economy moving after the worst recession since 1929. Trump inherited a booming economy. Comparing the two is exceedingly misleading.

Exactly. Trump got handed a rolling economy but managed to increase both the debt and deficit.

And arch, you were specifically targeting Obama back then. Dont pull this both sides BS now. Directly trash trump just like you did Obama.

Lets go. Don’t be fake.

I’ve been doing this for years. We agree on rare ore. Problem being, terra firma is being attacked. But screw the facts they don’t matter.

Unfortunately, most businesses don't accept gold and silver. If you tried to spend it, I'm guessing most people at a register would look at you funny.

Plus, gold and silver are finite resources. It's really just another indicator of how much less valuable the US dollar is becoming.

Tough to have a discussion with someone that only wants to argue.

There are a million places to buy and sell gold and silver.
You buy, you let it appreciate while you live your life on checking, savings and investments like everyone else, and if you get into a jam, or you want to take profits, you sell and use the cash at the store.

Gotta hold you to a standard first before any actual discussions can go on.

Criticize trump for the deficit AND debt rising under his watch, without mentioning Obama, Hillary, or another what about.

Come on, we’re waiting.

First, Hillary never raised or lowered the deficit or the debt.

Secondly, for the third time now, I stated I hate it now, and I hated it then.

Set your hatred for me aside and read what I wrote originally.

I did read it.

I find it hilarious your criticisms of trump only come when you make your “all sides” BS post.

Under Obama, you blasted him directly. Under trump, it’s “well it’s always been this way”.

It’s hilarious and pathetic.

I have done it since I first started working as a kid. Gold was $39 bucks an ounce.
Buying a little at a time, over the years, selling to buy something I want or need, buying some more.

Beating the system is a good feeling when its legal.

A booming economy ... ..

And u actually believe that .... WOW ...

Thanks for yet again proving my point.

I use coin dealers. They buy and sell melt down values. I deal in coins and bulk.

Go back and read the OP.

See you are exactly the sort of Trump supporter that wants to think the economy wasn't as good under Obama as it is under Trump.... yet all the factual data that is how the economy has been measured FOR DECADES shows the truth that you can't your way out of. Making posts like this one just indicates ignorance and a lack of willing to be open to facts.

No surprise. This is exactly the same as how the GOP ripped Obama's employment numbers month on month saying they were fake .... and now they are measuring Trump's employment numbers the same way - they claim they are glorious.

HILARIOUS !

It’s simple math.
black man + tan suit = bad
orange man + red Chinese manufactured tie = good

Here is my problem...

Republicans have always said they stand for responsible debt and deficit.

Now that the far right wing of the party has the leader they have always wanted, they are abandoning that aspect of the party mantra.

True republicans are sick of this.

There are now officially three parties

Democrat
Republicans
Trumpians

We need more parties

Bloomberg should get Romney for a running mate and campaign on working toward bipartisan results. Is this idea crazy enough to work?

How Trump's three years of job gains compares to Obama's


New York (CNN Business)President Donald Trump says he is particularly pleased with the jobs created during his three years in office.

"We're producing jobs like you have never seen before in this country," he said during a recent speech in Michigan.
But you don't have to go back far to find three years of better job growth. Just to back to the previous three years under Barack Obama.
During Trump's first 36 months in office, the US economy has gained 6.6 million jobs. But during a comparable 36-month period at the end of Obama's tenure, employers added 8.1 million jobs, or 23% more than what has been added since Trump took office.

The average monthly gain so far under Trump is 182,000 jobs. During the last 36 months under Obama, employers were adding an average of 224,000 jobs a month.
On Friday, the Labor Department reported that employers added a fairly robust 225,000 jobs in January. But it also made some revisions to past data, which lowered many previous job growth estimates. While some of the revisions go all the way back to the last century, most of the changes to data took place during 2018 and 2019. So the revisions reduced the gains during Obama's final three years by 47,000 jobs, but it reduced the gains during Trump's tenure by a total of 354,000 jobs.
The job record under Trump is far better than the job record during Obama's first 35 months in office, when the economy lost 805,000 jobs. But Obama took office in the midst of the worst financial crisis since the Great Depression. In the final job reading before Obama took office, the economy lost 784,000 jobs in that month alone. And it continued to lose jobs throughout the rest of 2009 as Obama's economic policies went into effect.
By comparison, Trump took office with the labor market in relatively good shape, with unemployment at 4.7%, and a string of 76 straight months of job gains. The labor market has clearly continued to improve. Unemployment of 3.6% in January is nearly at a 50-year low now. But it is a continuation of an improving job market, not the turnaround that occurred in the early years of the Obama administration.
Trump rebrands the economic recovery as his alone. It's not
Trump rebrands the economic recovery as his alone. It's not
And Trump's job record is not unique. A gain of more than 6.6 million jobs during a 35-month period has been common during the 80 years that the Labor Department has counted jobs. There are hundreds of overlapping 36-month periods of better growth on record.
At this point in his first and only term, Jimmy Carter had enjoyed a gain of about 10.1 million jobs. Employers added 8.5 million jobs during the first 36 months of Bill Clinton's term and 7.8 million jobs during the first 36 months of Lyndon Johnson's tenure, even though the labor force at that time was less than half the size of what it is today.

I sent this to a trump honk acquaintance of mine. He dismissed it ‘cuz CNN is Fake News’. So I sent him the similar article from Forbes magazine. He’s no longer responding to my desire to continue the conversation. Facts hurt trumpian brains.

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2020/03/the-2020-disinformation-war/605530/

Very interesting article-

Interesting, but pretty one-sided in what I've read so far. That could change, but it's a pretty long article. I think I'm about halfway through, but I thought it could have mercifully ended about 3 times already.

Probably not the best choice of words, but it kind of feels like it's doing what it's complaining about.

That's what bothers me. Both sides in politics do bad things all the time, but instead of not doing bad things, they just make a bunch of noise about the other side doing it. Hypocrisy seems to be the name name of the game in our partisan government. The cynical part of me wonders if it is intentional and the fluctuating flow from "left" to "right" is really just a grand scam to maintain the overarching status quo.

Have not read the article yet - heading out in moments. However - the Atlantic is traditionally a conservative paper I believe. Though definitely not a fan of Trump - it is a very credible source from my experience. I'd be shocked if what you suggest is true and that they are spreading disinformation (lies and propaganda).... will see.

I have read most of the article and heard the interview yesterday on NPR. Very insightful on how the Trump campaign has like 3000 data points to narrow almost any ad to any segment of the population.

But there are other parts of the article that are darker and basically comes off to me it is a win at any cost-and yes, that includes straight up bs and disinformation.

They've "officially" endorsed 3 Presidential candidates. Hillary was the most recent.

I think they're more known for their literary work/side.

I'm not claiming lies so much as carefully selected information which supports an agenda. Read the article. *Shrug*

You didn't make one. Just playing the victim card again.

“Mayor De Blasio, the members of the NYPD are declaring war on you!” the Sergeants Benevolent Association wrote in a tweet. “We do not respect you, DO NOT visit us in hospitals. You sold the NYPD to the vile creatures, the 1% who hate cops but vote for you.

“NYPD cops have been assassinated because of you,” the tweet added. “This isn’t over, Game on!”


Another lib success story.
Thems the Facts Jack!

Do you have a link for this tweet? At least who tweeted it and when?

https://www.foxnews.com/us/nyc-union-declares-war-on-mayor

A link to the article ... i looked for a link on msnbc and cnn but for some reason this story didn’t make there absolutely loaded front page ... not that this is newsworthy or anything ...

The worst part bro ,,,, there telling cops in NY to not wear there uni’s or anything that references the NYPD on it during there off time cause they will be making themselves targets ...

How sad is that .... talk about upside down ...

Thanks for the link. I knew that de Blasio ticked off the cops when he was first elected but I didn’t realize he was still hated.

That isn't good.

Neither does it have ANYTHING to do with the subject of the thread.

Nice deflection though 👍

This gonna get real real ugly soon ... and that’s a good thing ... the left has vilified every cop in America cause of a few POS ... sweet ..


NYC PBA
✔
@NYCPBA

To the 100 plus cops who turned out for the arraignment of the attempted cop-killer who ambushed our fellow NYPD officers this weekend, & every cop on the job, keep your head on a swivel and watch each other’s backs. Our politicians don’t support us, so we must support each other


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Dermot Shea Getty Images
NYPD Commissioner Dermot Shea ripped the department’s sergeants’ union on Monday for tweets declaring “war” on Mayor Bill de Blasio following the shootings of two on-duty cops.

“One hundred percent that’s inappropriate,” said the top cop, addressing reporters as one of the wounded lawmen left Lincoln Hospital in The Bronx. “This is a time that we need to come together first and foremost.”

SEE ALSO

Sergeants' union 'declares war' on de Blasio after cop shootings
After two Bronx cops were shot in less than 12 hours late Saturday into early Sunday — allegedly by the same career criminal, Robert Williams — the Sergeants’ Benevolent Association took to Twitter to make its ire against Hizzoner clear.

“Mayor de Blasio, the members of the NYPD are declaring war on you!” the union wrote in one tweet. “We do not respect you, DO NOT visit us in hospitals.”

Shea on Monday blasted the rhetoric as divisive.

“When you see a tweet like that, I think it’s wrong,” he said. “I think [SBA President] Ed Mullins should think before he tweets something like that because it’s not helpful.

“It’s not helpful to where we’re going and when you look at what the mayor does for this city, he’s been extremely supportive of the NYPD.”

He also said the tweets do not reflect the view of the department as a whole.

“That’s not the voice of the NYPD,” he said. “One hundred percent.

Meanwhile, City Hall pushed back Monday morning against the SBA’s tweets.

“Ed Mullins’ comments are absolutely reprehensible,” said mayoral spokeswoman Freddi Goldstein in a statement. “He clearly has forgotten his oath to protect and serve.

“While he threatens violence, the mayor remains focused on the safety of our officers and communities.”

what a mess.
and in so many different ways.

The commissioner that serves at the pleasure of the mayor backs the mayor publicly, go figure.

I think I have seen this episode of Blue Bloods before.

j/c:

These are just my personal opinions.

--I admire the perception of being a law enforcement officer much like I admire those in the military.

--I would like to be a cop because I would like to carry out justice and protect others.

--I could never be a police officer because of all the violence, hate, and bias that is directed their way.

--I have had run-ins w/the law. Mostly because of fist fights I have had w/others. Some cops were cool. Some cops were jerks. Kinda like the rest of society. Good and bad. My point is that is unwise to judge a the entire lot by the actions of a few.

--I think the media and many citizens present the police in a negative manner that is largely unfair. I do think there are idiot cops, just as there are ugly citizens, but to put a label on an entire group is hateful, biased, and ignorant.

--I get that the media and social media is all about trashing cops, but damn man.............do any of you understand just how dangerous it is to present an agenda that is anti-cop? Do any of you realize they are also real people w/families and other loved ones? Do any of you realize how they are far more often targets of senseless shootings than the other way around?

--Get ... off the political agenda for a moment and realize this is a "human" story. Get the bad cops off the street and get the bad folks off the street. Be human.

I can't imagine the thoughts that go through a cops head at this moment. Worried about being killed because of the uniform you wear for your job.

Here is the other thing that folks don't consider.

Let's say you are a cop and are called to an expensive hotel to investigate a crime or you are called to a high-priced neighborhood. Compare that to being called to the ghetto for a domestic dispute or some other crime.

Dudes..............put yourselves in those positions. LOl.....let's get real here.

I personally love poor people over rich people. I actually get along better w/blacks and other minorities than I do whites. But dawgs............safety wise...........I would feel safer in the rich neighborhood than the hood.

I'm not alone in that thinking. Hell, it's smart to keep your guard up. So now. put yourself in the cop's shoes. How you feeling when you go into the hood? Safe? Or not?

I wouldn't trust myself in some of the situations they get into not to shoot somebody that didn't need to be shot. That and I would have to be in my 20s-30s again.

While the right tries to make it sound like the left should keep silent about bad cops. I haven't seen the left to try "vilify good cops". That's more perception than fact.

I see at least one good thing about that ticket, we'd have two guys at the top that can't be bought.... LOL

I just realized just how over your head 0 + 0 = 0 actually is ...

WOW ...

It speaks volumes that you only attempt math with single digits. Therein lies the problem.

Tell me bro when is the last time the left ever, ever talked about good cops?

The right will change it's tune when the bad cops turn on them. When cops start busting heads on the 2Aers, REDHATers, and Racists... the right will wail.

I do all the time.
I grew up in a blue household. Local cops were my extended fam.

I will also call out bad cops, racial profiling and bad policy when I see it.

Those two coexist quite comfortably in me.
Generalizations don't serve you very well, bro.

Ok GM, there's one.

All the time. Every news organization accept the most liberal of sources speaks about the good works of the police all the time.

That's the problem. according to many, if it isn't FOX News, it's liberal.



So I guess my question to you would be, who is it you consider liberal?

The liberal controlled media sure has a lot of good cop vs bad guy shows airing and streaming 24-7 these days. What are you talking about?

Don't be silly man. Your ambidextrous not a lefty.

The guy who responded to me right after you did.

Did you see the episode I was on

Generally speaking, you’re on them all right?

If you are on Twitter, look for @NYC PBA. It's the verified Police Benevolent Association twitter account. They roast DeBlasio on the daily. Just scroll through their stuff.

I'm not going to scroll all the way back and find the one you are asking for but here is a more recent example.

. Naa I do what the cops tell me. I can disagree in court.

Thanks DC. Diam got me to the tweet. This is a sad situation all around.

It is. I know that a lot of towns and cities have a bit of animosity between law enforcement and politicians..... but this seems to have reached a very dangerous extreme.

Facts matter true and so does context.

A virtually nonexistent portion of America complained about Obama.

Virtually every major news organization and the entirety of the Democratic partisans have spewed vitriol at an unprecedented rate on Trump. That's just talk, not even talking about Mueller and impeachment, all of which was political theater.

Obama deserves credit where it's due, but the establishment media would have crowned him king if they could. While the same media wouldhave Trump drawn and quartered.


"Wholly ignorant" is just more of the same type of partisan nonsense.

The only difference here is that the GOP actually thinks they can crown Trump as king. And so far they're pretty close to being right.

O definetly deserved the Nobel peace prize .... 100% legite ...

What nonsense is this? Virtually non existent portion of the USA complained about Obama. Funny how many of you crow about Fox viewership numbers when it's one argument then claim that 'all the media' is liberal in the next argument.

There's plenty of discussions and posts showing the media bias in the USA and how it's split left and right and center.... Maybe a lot of what you call left is really just factual centrist news reporting that you don't like? Or maybe you just make up a comment like that to try and make an argument/debate. idk.... but I do know that there was non stop press bashing Obama from the color of his suit to every aspect of everything he ever did.

lol k bud, good chat

I think you are confusing social media and Fox News with "the Press"...

Maybe - I think of Fox as 'the Media' ... like I do Breitbart and all the other right leaning outlets from Rush on down. They were in full court press undermining everything he did. And we had Mitch and his intention of preventing Obama from passing anything mindset. Obama was far from perfect - and yes the MSNBC's of the world are doing the exact thing Fox did to Obama back to Trump.... But Trump has earned a large portion of the media coverage he gets from more centerist outlets.

You seem to be missing the point entirely. There is a segment of our nation who does not believe there is such a thing as a centrist. You either adhere and worship everything Trump does or you are a socialist liberal. You either toe the Bernie line or you are not worthy of consideration. Just look at the comments on social media from both extremes.

When it comes to Trump, the press or anyone who points out his lies, even as truthful as that is, becomes the enemy. Truth is no longer important. Moderates no longer exist. This is Trumplandia.

Stop being ridiculous. I'm a Bernie supporter and I tolerate you more than you do me. Have you watched the lib news coverage of Bernie lately? They think progressives are out of touch with mainstream America... It doesn't look like it at the Bernie rallies. But Bernie gets piled onto all the time, just look:



So you need to quit crying about extremes because the middle is pretty damn extreme if you ask me.

They're even out of touch with the main stream democrat. It's not the medias fault that the moderate candidates running are getting the vast majority of the primary votes. Some of us would actually like to win the election.

Vast majority? You can't say that with any degree of certainty. haven't you been watching the polling coverage where people list off their top three or four favorites in order? They are all over the place. Pete first, Bernie Second Bloomberg third... Warren and Klobuchar on top followed by Biden... Until the centrist side dwindles NOBODY knows where those split votes will fall. Most people don't care about center/far left it seems this year, only the diehard corporate neocons are beating that drum. But I can't honestly say you are wrong either, so I will give you that. Only time will tell and we should know for sure by July.