Trump says he opposes mail-in voting for November

President Trump on Friday said he's confident the general election in November won't be delayed by the coronavirus, but he rejected the idea of having every state prepare to conduct mail-in voting.

The president, speaking at the daily White House briefing on the pandemic, made clear he does not support using vote-by-mail as a backstop in the event the outbreak keeps people from going to the polls.

“No, because I think a lot of people cheat with mail-in voting," said Trump, who has levied baseless accusations about voter fraud that he claims kept him from winning the popular vote in 2016. "I think people should vote with ID, voter ID. I think voter ID is very important, and the reason they don’t want voter ID is because they intend to cheat."

“It shouldn’t be mail-in voting," he added. "It should be you go to a booth and you proudly display yourself. You don’t send it in the mail where people can pick up — all sorts of bad things can happen … by the time it gets in and is tabulated."

Democrats have pushed for additional funding to bolster mail-in and absentee voting availability. Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) and others argue that voting by mail could be necessary in the event the virus is still prevalent and keeps poll workers and voters from casting their ballots in November.

The coronavirus relief package signed into law last week by Trump included $400 million for states to beef up preparations for primaries and the general election during the coronavirus crisis. Democrats had initially pushed for $4 billion.

Trump and other Republicans have largely rejected the idea of widespread vote-by-mail, with some arguing it would harm the electoral prospects of GOP candidates.

The president on Friday said the general election will go forward as scheduled Nov. 3, even though numerous states have postponed their primaries or moved them to all-mail ballots amid the pandemic.

In Wisconsin, the state is expected to go forward with its primary on Tuesday. Gov. Tony Evers (D) on Friday urged the state legislature to allow all-mail voting and accept ballots cast in the coming weeks.

Trump criticized Evers while highlighting his support for a judicial candidate in Wisconsin.

"Why didn’t he do this two weeks ago?" Trump said at the briefing. "All of a sudden an election, which is taking place very soon, gets delayed. Now, I just endorsed him today, and it was a very strong endorsement... and all of a sudden the governor comes out, the Democrat governor, by the way, comes out and says, 'Oh, we're going to move this election.'"

https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/491126-trump-says-he-opposes-mail-in-voting-for-november

He'd rather his supporters risk there lives? Maybe Covid-19 will be gone by then...

Well you know he said that if mail in voting happens Republicans will never win another election, so......

Love my mail in voting in Oregon. So easy.

Like I said, if we can't have a normal election come November, we need to put it off a couple of years till things simmer down.

Even if it takes a Decade.

I would imagine things would be baking o normal unless there was a second wave.... if that's the case then we'd need to mail in... or online vote...

Five States Face Federal Lawsuit Over Inaccurate Voter Registrations
.
By Mark Hemingway

January 07, 2020

Five States Face Federal Lawsuit Over Inaccurate Voter Registrations


In 378 U.S. counties, voter registration rates exceed 100% of the adult population, meaning there are more voter registrations on file than the total voting-age population, according to a new analysis by the conservative watchdog group Judicial Watch.

Based on data the federal Electoral Assistance Commission released last year, the new analysis indicates that a minimum of 2.5 million voter registrations are wrongly listed as valid. It suggests widespread lack of compliance with the National Voter Registration Act (NVRA), which requires states to remove people who have died, moved, or are otherwise ineligible to vote from the rolls. While having excess registrations isn’t proof of voter fraud, voter integrity advocates note that it does create opportunities for deception, such as allowing people to vote twice in different precincts or submit invalid absentee ballots.

Last week, Judicial Watch sent letters to election officials in 19 counties in five states – California, Colorado, North Carolina, Pennsylvania, and Virginia – warning that they could face a federal lawsuit for their failure to update voter rolls.

Eleven of the 19 counties are located in California, which has had habitual problems updating its voter rolls. Last year, Los Angeles County settled a lawsuit and agreed to clean up its voter rolls after Judicial Watch revealed that it had 1.6 million more voter registrations on file than the eligible voting population in the county. As of last year, the entire state of California had a voter registration rate of 101%.

It doesn’t appear that California counties have fixed the problem. San Diego County removed 500,000 voter registrations from its rolls last year following Los Angeles’ settlement, but according to Judicial Watch’s analysis of federal data, San Diego still has a registration rate of 117% – one of the highest in the country.

While the majority of the 19 counties singled out by Judicial Watch have voter registration rates exceeding 100%, some have voter registration rates exceeding 90%, which is improbably high if not impossible. But in every county, Judicial Watch asserts that there’s a demonstrable failure to keep voter rolls accurate.

The four counties singled out by Judicial Watch in Pennsylvania – Allegheny, Chester, Bucks, and Delaware – have voter registration rates ranging between 96% and 98%. Judicial Watch notes that the number of voter registrations removed from the rolls in each county the previous two-year period is 72, eight, five, and four, respectively.

“If few or no voters were removed . . . the jurisdiction is obviously failing to comply. . . . States must report the number of such removals to the [Electoral Assistance Commission],” said Robert Popper, former deputy chief of the Voting Section in the Civil Rights Division of the Department of Justice, who now works on voting issues for Judicial Watch, in a press release.

With more than 1.2 million residents, Allegheny County is the second most populous in Pennsylvania. Invalidating only 72 voter registrations is “an absurdly low figure for a county of this size,” notes Judicial Watch’s letter to the Allegheny County Council and the Pennsylvania secretary of state. “If this figure is accurate, it establishes beyond any dispute that the County is not complying with the NVRA.” Census data confirms that more than one in 10 Americans move every year, and there were obviously more than 72 deaths in the Pittsburgh area over the last two-years.

Another issue raised by Judicial Watch is the number of inactive registrations, such as when a voter hasn’t voted in successive elections or has failed to respond to state inquiries asking them to confirm their address and otherwise validate their registration.

In its letter to Orange County, California Judicial Watch notes that the county has a voter registration rate of 96%. However, Judicial Watch’s letter notes that there are about 380,000 inactive voter registrations on the county’s rolls, or about one in every five registrations – another strong indication that the voting rolls aren’t being systemically updated. (Additionally, Orange County, with a population of 3.2 million, has the distinction of reporting that it did not remove a single voter registration from its rolls over the previous two years.)

The issue of cleaning up voter rolls has become acute over the last year in part due to a 2018 Supreme Court decision, Husted v. A. Philip Randolph Institute. While the decision upheld the state of Ohio’s specific provisions for determining which voter registrations are inactive or invalid, the high court’s decision also clarified the intent of the NVRA’s provisions to keep voter rolls accurate.

Previously some states had relied on questionable interpretations of the law to avoid cleaning up voter rolls. In 1998, California got authority from Clinton administration Attorney General Janet Reno to reinterpret the NVRA enforcement provisions, an interpretation that the Supreme Court determined was a misreading of the law in Husted.

Partisan considerations aside, one factor in the sorry state of America’s voter rolls is the cost. Last year after Judicial Watch also threatened a federal lawsuit over Kentucky’s inability to keep accurate voter rolls, the office of Kentucky Secretary of State Alison Lundergan Grimes blamed a lack of “proper funding” and “budget shortfalls” for why the state had fallen behind.

The upshot is that after decades of neglect, hundreds of counties in this country have millions upon millions of inaccurate voter registrations – and the problem is widespread in Republican “red” and Democratic “blue” counties alike. Some critics see legal action by the judiciary as the best way to force the legislative and executive branches of government to do their duty to ensure the integrity of the nation’s elections process. Judicial Watch says its decision to send letters to five states representing a small fraction of the 378 counties in apparent violation of federal law may only be a first step in its efforts to clean up voter rolls in the coming year.

“The litigation is complex so filing five lawsuits would be significant,” Judicial Watch President Tom Fitton told RealClearPolitics. “The other counties are also on our radar and will not escape scrutiny.”


https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articl...ns__142089.html

Exactly as the dems want it.

Hey, If I die from covid, or something else before the election, can someone make sure I didn't vote for Biden?

Too late bro, you already voted for him... twice.

It's obvious some on this thread are for crooked elections.

We agree on this... Republicans and Trump supporters.

You do know that funeral homes are required to report deaths to the govt right? Pfft GOPers.

Of course he’s against it, anything to squelch us from voting is trumps and his sheep ultimate plan. They all project their flaws on others by calling this voter fraud suppression. Something they can’t prove. Yet red states continue to show gerrymander districts to favor Republican candidates. Pffft the trump era.

Oh dear, we can't hold a legitimate election with that going on. This could take years to fix, maybe a decade.

Trump needs to drop the Hamma on holding FAKE elections.

Oh no ... there’s no voter fraud and illegals don’t vote ... just ask you buddy Roy .. *L* ...

comments like this make me think that maybe, just maybe this whole Covid 19 thing was put together between China, Trump and Republicans to take over America.

Remember, the first country that Hitler attacked was Germany

Ya cause the republicans are the ones handing out drivers licenses to illegals and busing folks to different states and getting caught red handed running fraudulent voter registration drives ... one again your spot on ...

I don't know if they are or aren't doing that, I suspect that it isn't that simple. But for sure Republicans are Gerrymandering districts (and have been for years) and doing anything to promote Voter Suppression.

They want to stop Americans of Color from voting. They know a high voter turn out means no republican will ever occupy the Oval office again.

If you don't believe me, just listen to the orange genius in the White House.. He just said it.

Show me where .... I do know of only one case of voter fraud. It happened in my home state of NC.

Despite all the NOISE the Alt Right like to create about voter fraud .... this is what I know.

1. Trump commissioned a costly and thorough review of voter fraud ..... it found basically nothing.

https://apnews.com/f5f6a73b2af546ee97816bb35e82c18d/Report:-Trump-commission-did-not-find-widespread-voter-fraud

2. The people caught and prosecuted for voter fraud were Republicans.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/30/us/mccrae-dowless-indictment.html

But damn I forgot .... #factsdontmatter to some

Pick a state...

https://www.heritage.org/voterfraud

Bless your heart.

Are you freaking kidding me?

1277 cases of voter fraud ..... going back 16+ years? NATIONWIDE

Less than 80 cases annualized. Just looking at presidential voting - 129 million people voting and 80 fraudulent votes?

0.0000062% of the vote ?


Anyone worrying about voter fraud has clearly lost the plot. To borrow a line from Lewis Black - we need to worry about "are we eating too much garlic as a Nation" before voter fraud gets to the top of the list.

How about tackling gerrymandering and the proactive efforts to make it harder to vote - something real that is impacting tens of thousands - maybe 100's of thousands of voters? Pfffft. What a crock of horse manure.

Making it harder to vote was discussed recently - and apparently it was no big deal to close voting stations and create long lines or force people to travel longer distances to vote .... but 'maybe' 80 fraudulent votes a year in our nation of 300 million is a HUGE deal. smdh

Now the real truth comes out on what these guys really think ...Stay Strong 40

eew boy ....that’s wide spread voter fraud alright? : and I bet half of them voted for trump anyways ....pffft that’s all you got showing wide spread voter fraud? Wanna see some GOPer gerrymandering districts? Probably not. Pfft

888, OCD, Perfect and Portland all live on that same one way street ...

888

Let me guess they don’t talk about ACORN on that fine one way street u live on ... ...

Judicial Watch is the SCLC of the right wing.

Hey, pal, you said you've only known of one case! I posted many cases! We've all seen this Al Franken movie before and know where this is leading!

so gerrymandering goes ignored as usual ...pfffft

"The mission of The Heritage Foundation is to formulate and promote conservative public policies"...

Well that looks like a source full of unbiased information based or real facts. BUT you saw it on the internet so it must be true.

Is this some kind of code? The bolded 888 makes me think you are making a white nationalist accusation of some kind...

Fear mongering and tin foil hats is where it leads, you are proof.

Report: Trump commission did not find widespread voter fraud

PORTLAND, Maine (AP) — The now-disbanded voting integrity commission launched by the Trump administration uncovered no evidence to support claims of widespread voter fraud, according to an analysis of administration documents released Friday.

In a letter to Vice President Mike Pence and Kansas Secretary of State Kris Kobach, who are both Republicans and led the commission, Maine Secretary of State Matthew Dunlap said the documents show there was a “pre-ordained outcome” and that drafts of a commission report included a section on evidence of voter fraud that was “glaringly empty.”

“It’s calling into the darkness, looking for voter fraud,” Dunlap, a Democrat, told The Associated Press. “There’s no real evidence of it anywhere.”

Republican President Donald Trump convened the commission to investigate the 2016 presidential election after making unsubstantiated claims that between 3 million and 5 million ballots were illegally cast. Critics, including Dunlap, reject his claims of widespread voter fraud.

The Trump administration last month complied with a court order to turn over documents from the voting integrity commission to Dunlap. The commission met just twice and has not issued a report.

Dunlap’s findings received immediate pushback Friday from Kobach, who acted as vice chair of the commission while Pence served as chair.

“For some people, no matter how many cases of voter fraud you show them, there will never be enough for them to admit that there’s a problem,” said Kobach, who is running for Kansas governor and has a good chance of unseating the incumbent, Jeff Colyer, in the Republican primary Tuesday.

“It appears that Secretary Dunlap is willfully blind to the voter fraud in front of his nose,” Kobach said in a statement released by his spokesman.

Kobach said there have been more than 1,000 convictions for voter fraud since 2000, and that the commission presented 8,400 instances of double voting in the 2016 election in 20 states.

“Had the commission done the same analysis of all 50 states, the number would have been exponentially higher,” Kobach said.

In response, Dunlap said those figures were never brought before the commission, and that Kobach hasn’t presented any evidence for his claims of double voting. He said the commission was presented with a report claiming over 1,000 convictions for various forms of voter misconduct since 1948.

“The plural of anecdote is not data,” Dunlap said in his Friday letter to the shuttered commission’s leaders.

Pence’s office did not immediately respond to a request for comment Friday.

Dunlap said he is unsure whether the administration has released all relevant documents, and said the matter is in litigation. He said he was repeatedly rebuffed when he sought access to commission records including meeting materials, witness invitations and correspondence.

Dunlap released his findings on a website .

Emails released by Dunlap and promoted by the nonprofit American Oversight, which represented Dunlap, include examples of Republican voting integrity commissioners emailing each other as they worked on information requests without including Democrats.

“Indeed, a very few commissioners worked to buttress their pre-ordained conclusions shielded from dissent or dialogue from those commissioners not included in the discussions,” Dunlap said in his Friday letter.

In a June 2017 email, commissioner Christy McCormick unsuccessfully tried to suggest that the commission hire a statistician she knew. “When I was at DOJ, we had numerous discussions that made me pretty confident that he is conservative (and Christian, too),” said McCormick, in reference to the U.S. Department of Justice.

The emails also show some commission members had planned to ask for an interstate database used to identify duplicate voter registrations, as well as lists of individuals deemed ineligible for federal jury service due to death, relocation, convictions or lack of citizenship. It wasn’t clear in the emails whether or not such requests ended up being fulfilled, Dunlap said.

In two November 2017 emails, Republican commission member and election lawyer J. Christian Adams emailed all members and said there hadn’t been any prosecutions for double voting or any non-citizen voting in years. “Understanding the extent of un-prosecuted and known election crimes can inform the commission’s recommendations,” Adams said.

Adams also called for U.S. Customs and Immigration Services to obtain metadata from citizenship applications as well as a list of individuals removed from the U.S. due to their unlawful participation in elections.

“Many applicants note they have been registered to vote and are voting,” Adams said.

https://apnews.com/f5f6a73b2af546ee97816bb35e82c18d/Report:-Trump-commission-did-not-find-widespread-voter-fraud

Trump tried the same BS you're peddling and failed miserably.

Bro, you have to source it from an alt-right propaganda site for Fish to believe it.

All he has to do is show that the special committee Trump launched actually found something. They didn't. He purposely composed a commission to try and prove that Democrats were committing wide spread voter fraud and found nothing.

Hey Pal ... and my response that anyone concerned with something happening .0000062% is not worth worrying about.

What I said was accurate. Yes - there is more than one case, you showed me, thanks.

What you proved is that it is not worth worrying about. That was the same conclusions Trump's hand picked team came up with.

Thanks Pal.

You want to worry about voter fraud and something that happens at a .00000062% rate ... knock yourself out. Since your so good at 0+0 math and all tell me what power of 10 that percentile is.

Oh, but it is worth worrying about. There's more where this article came from:





By Rowan Scarborough

- The Washington Times -

Monday, June 19, 2017

A research group in New Jersey has taken a fresh look at postelection polling data and concluded that the number of noncitizens voting illegally in U.S. elections is likely far greater than previous estimates.

As many as 5.7 million noncitizens may have voted in the 2008 election, which put Barack Obama in the White House.

The research organization Just Facts, a widely cited, independent think tank led by self-described conservatives and libertarians, revealed its number-crunching in a report on national immigration.



Just Facts President James D. Agresti and his team looked at data from an extensive Harvard/YouGov study that every two years questions a sample size of tens of thousands of voters. Some acknowledge they are noncitizens and are thus ineligible to vote.

Just Facts’ conclusions confront both sides in the illegal voting debate: those who say it happens a lot and those who say the problem nonexistent.


https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2017/jun/19/noncitizen-illegal-vote-number-higher-than-estimat/

Well Trump needs firing quickly then .... 5.7 million fraudulent voters (allegedly) and Trump's hand picked investigation didn't find any of 'em.

Either Trump is even more incompetent than his handling of CV-19 is indicating or the 5.7 million "may have voted" is really just a big fat enormous pile of steaming dung.... of course, makes the Trump faithful salivate. Makes me think of the scene from 'I am Legend' when all the crazies are salivating and frothing at the mouth on the other side of the glass.

And let's not forget YOUR SOURCE - the Heritage Foundation with a vested interest in making this bigger - found all of 1277 cases dating back 14+ years or whatever it was. Pffft.

https://publicinterestlegal.org/files/1-Complaint-2.24.20.pdf

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/20...harge-corrupte/

Amazing what you can find if you go below the surface.

But like I said - even the lies get the Trump faithful frothing like rabid faithful. Or should that be "especially the lies" .... after all that's what spews out of Trump's mouth most of the time.

Bridgeport State Rep. Christina Ayala arrested on 19 voting fraud charges

Friday, September 26, 2014

State Rep. Christina Ayala, D-Bridgeport.

HARTFORD >> State Rep. Christina “Tita” Ayala, D-Bridgeport, was arrested Friday on 19 voting fraud charges.

Ayala, 31, is accused of voting in local and state elections in districts she did not live, the Chief State’s Attorney’s Office said in a press release.

The arrest warrant affidavit also alleges Ayala provided fabricated evidence to state Election Enforcement Commission investigators that showed she lived at an address in a district where she voted while actually living outside the district, according to the release.

Ayala, who represents the 128th District, was elected in 2012, replacing her cousin, Andres Ayala, who was elected to the state Senate. She chose to run for reelection earlier this year, despite the voting fraud investigation, but lost a four-way primary in August.

The Elections Enforcement Commission referred the case to the Office of the Chief State’s Attorney in October 2013, recommending criminal charges.

Ayala allegedly voted in various Bridgeport Democratic Town Committee elections, a municipal primary election and a state primary election between 2009 and 2012 in districts inconsistent with the location of her residence, according to the release. She is also accused of voting in the Bridgeport state general election in 2012 in a district where she didn’t live.

According to the Connecticut Post, Ayala’s mother, Santa, was also investigated by the Elections Enforcement Commission. The commission also recommended criminal charges be filed against Santa Ayala, the Democratic registrar of voters in Bridgeport, but none have been filed as of Friday.

Christina Ayala was charged with eight counts of fraudulent voting, 10 counts of primary or enrollment violations and one count of tampering with or fabricating physical evidence.

According to the release, fraudulent voting is a felony punishable by not less than one year or more than two years in prison and a fine of $300 to $500 per count. Primary or enrollment violations and tampering with or fabricating physical evidence are class D felonies carrying a maximum prison sentence of up to five years per count.

Ayala’s arrest is not her first run-in with the law since her political career began in 2012.

She was fined $350 for a hit-and-run car accident shortly after winning the 2012 Democratic primary for the House seat. She later got into a fight with her boyfriend and faced domestic violence charges, which were dropped after she completed counseling.

In this case, Ayala was released on a promise to appear in court Oct. 7 for her arraignment.


https://www.nhregister.com/connecticut/a...on-11364225.php

OMG !!!!

So was it 81 fraudulent votes that year - 2012 - ??? That might push it up to around 0.0000006100000001% .... you need to escalate now!

^ I love this post.

Stop stalking me doooood

Now you're getting my sense of humor.

“Trump says he opposes mail-in voting for November”

trump also said he’d release his taxes. And.. If you want a test you can go get tested. And ... he’s not wearing a mask. Pffft trump and his sheep... not taking anything he screws up seriously at all.

Sorta fits don't it.

Considering they know trump created the universe and calls the shots. ...that’s what’s going to happen.

George Soros-Funded Group Pushes Nationwide Drop Boxes for Voting


Aaron Klein

6 Apr 2020


The Brennan Center for Justice, which is heavily financed by George Soros, is advocating the use of drop boxes to deposit ballots on voting day this November as part of a suggested overhaul of the U.S. voting system due to the Chinese coronavirus pandemic.

With other Soros-financed groups, the Brennan Center has been leading a campaign advocating a “vote by mail” system in the upcoming presidential election, citing fears that coronavirus makes it too dangerous to vote in person. Some of the groups are using the coronavirus crisis to push permanent changes to the way Americans vote.

Analysts have posited that such proposals help the Democratic Party. Republicans specifically fear the prospect of voter fraud, since mail-in voting would be harder to authenticate.

Now Brennan has released a preliminary $2 billion budget that breaks down the costs of a implementing the organization’s blueprint for voting reform during the pandemic. The blueprint that has been widely cited by news media as making a central argument for a universal vote-by-mail option, while Democrats have used Brennan’s plan to push voter reform legislation.

Part of Brennan’s budget calls for jurisdictions to “offer secure drop boxes in accessible locations for voters to drop off ballots directly.”

The estimate allocates $82 million to $117 million for drop box purchase and installation and some $35 million to $47 million for operation and maintenance.

“Drop boxes must be equipped with adequate security measures, such as cameras,” the budget states without providing more specifics about security for the boxes.

The plan doesn’t delineate rules for where such drop boxes could be located. Already California, Colorado, Oregon, and Washington use drop boxes statewide and have various locations set up that are not located at official in-person balloting stations.

The Brennan Center’s plan calls for a “universal vote-by-mail option for all voters.” The budget estimates $54 million to $89 million for increased ballot printing and $413 million to $593 million for extra postage costs.

To alert the public about changes to the voting method, the Brennan Center wants a $252.1 million public education campaign which “must include advertising in non-English languages.”

Brennan also wants $85.9 million to bolster online voter registration and it advocates implementing same-day registration. The Brennan blueprint allows for mail-in ballots to be processed prior to the close of polls on Election Day.

The document lobbies for polling place modification and preparation including “same-day registration, real-time address updates, and provisional balloting for certain individuals.” Brennan doesn’t define which “certain individuals” should receive same-day registration.

Brennan also advocates expanded early voting, with states offering at least two weeks of early in-person voting or a minimum of five days.

“This would be a massive undertaking but I think it’s absolutely necessary to make sure that we are prepared to run our elections in November, and I think all the problems we have been having in primaries in the last few weeks is evidence we need to start now,” said Lawrence Norden, the director of Election Reform at the Brennan Center and one of the report’s authors.

Democrat Sens. Amy Klobuchar (MN) and Chris Coons (DE) cited the Brennan Center’s coronavirus voting plan in a letter to House and Senate leaders, urging extra funding for the scheme. Klobuchar and Coons are among over a dozen Democrat senators who introduced a bill last month to allow for the widespread mail-in ballots, along with other updated voting measures for the upcoming presidential election. Democrat Reps. Suzan DelBene (WA), Earl Blumenauer (OR), and Jamie Raskin (MD) introduced a companion bill in the House.

The Brennan Center for Justice, located at NYU School of Law, is heavily financed by Soros’s Open Society Foundations and is the recipient of numerous Open Society grants.

Breitbart News previously reported the Brennan Center was listed in leaked Open Society Foundations documents as receiving funds specifically earmarked for “litigation to expand access to registration and improve ease of voting.”

Alongside the Brennan Center are a slew of progressive groups tied to Soros money that are working overtime to push mail-in voting.

The Soros-funded Brennan Center’s mail-in ballot plan was weaponized by the Stand Up America activist group, which launched a nationwide program urging Americans to nudge Congress to fund the voting changes. The group’s activities reportedly resulted in more than 19,000 calls to congressional offices in one day alone.

Stand Up America is funded by the Sixteen Thirty Fund, which is managed by the shadowy Arabella Advisors, a for-profit consultancy funded by far-left donors. The Soros-funded Democracy Alliance recommended that donors invest several million dollars into Sixteen Thirty Fund.

The massively Soros-funded American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU), which routinely partners with Brennan, has been pumping materials urging coronavirus voting legislation that pushes mail-in voting.

Soros’s Open Society Foundations donated $50 million to the ACLU. The Brennan Center has been the recipient of numerous grants from Soros’s Open Society Foundations totaling over $7,466,000 from 2000 to 2010.

Meanwhile, a coalition of progressive groups are reportedly mounting a multimillion-dollar campaign to not only change the presidential election system to mail-in voting during coronavirus, but to keep the mail-in balloting as part of the permanent way Americans will vote in the future.

The other groups in the mail-in advocacy coalition include the National Association of Non-Partisan Reformers, Public Citizen, Common Cause, National Vote at Home Institute and the Center for Secure and Modern Elections.

Common Cause is funded by Soros’s Open Society Foundations. So is Public Citizen.

The Center for Secure and Modern Elections is a project of the left-leaning New Venture Fund, which doesn’t disclose its donors.

The National Vote at Home Institute is partnered with the Soros-funded League of Women Voters, as well as the Soros-funded Common Cause.

The National Association of Non-Partisan Reformers lists its founding organization members as including FairVote. FairVote is a project of the Soros-funded Center for Voting and Democracy.

A recent Washington Post oped by election experts cited a study finding “people who vote by mail are significantly more likely to make mistakes than those who vote in person… Of course, people who vote in person may make mistakes — but they can more easily ask for help in correcting their ballots.”


https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2020/...wwis9WpZqwWE0sA

Soros!

j/c

Here's the puzzling part in all of this which I think comes from both sides.

I think it's too early to talk about mail in voting in November. We have no idea where we will be in terms of the virus.

In the mean time, why would Republicans give a damn how Democrats choose to vote in their own primaries?

because there are a bunch of local general elections on their ballot today, these people take office later this month.

I agree with Trump. Get off your butts and go vote.

Shocker.

Let me translate 40 speech for you.

"We would rather people die standing in line to vote than do the right thing."

Ok boomer. Pffft the trump era

whenever I hear the name Soros, I keep thinking of the Koch brothers..

What's the difference!

You know, it seems like a popular term these days. "Okay boomer".

Well what better way to kill off boomers than to demand in person voting during a pandemic?

d

Trump is kind of stupid.. The more people vote, the more likely it is that he loses.. Thus the reason Republicans are so big in Voter supression

Is Democracy worth dying for?
Some risk more for Our Democracy than others.

Can't make that kinda stuff up.

Again, I thought it was the Wisconsin Supreme Court that voted that it was ok to vote in person.

They were backed up by the fed SC

I wasn't aware of that... OK

And so small on mass testing of the Corona virus.

Yeah, like Trump and the Republicans.. All that gerrymandering and voter supression...

Folks, stop worrying. the election will happen as planned on November 3rd.

Its too late to do nationwide mail-in ballots. You would need 12-18 months of prep work to do additional absentee ballots, the ones they do now for those registered absentee take 10-12 months. This isn't something they can just whip up on the fly.

November 3rd is set in stone, the polls will be open. The Supreme Court will not allow them to delay the election. It would be illegal for the President to serve beyond Jan without an elected mandate, and pushing the election date back isn't doable because it would push the take office date back beyond Jan.

Both sides of the political spectrum come up with these crazy conspiracy ideas of Obama, or Trump, etc secretly planning to cancel the elections and take over. That will NEVER happen as long as the 2nd Amendment exists.



All those law abiding citizens, ex-military, and folks who own those god awful AR-15's the left so desperately wants to get rid of ensure no President current or future would ever dare to try and usurp power in this country.

As an Avid Gun owner, I say "Your welcome"

Now chill out. the election will go as planned.

Any other supreme court I'd agree with you but not this one.. I don't trust a group of supposedly smart people that think it's ok to make those in Wisconsin vote in person.

They've got to be kidding....

There's only one difference this time around.

Trump already set the stage in 2016. He claimed that if he won, the election was fair. If he lost, it was rigged. You don't think he will do it again in 2020?

And since you can be pretty sure he will use it again, what the the hell do you think will happen if he loses in a close election? How much havoc will it create.

You have to understand that with this man, if something bad happens, it's always someone elses fault, someone is being mean to him or somebody is cheating.

*You're

Trump owns a shrinking Republican party

https://www.brookings.edu/blog/fixgov/2018/06/14/trump-owns-a-shrinking-republican-party/

It's an odd dichotomy. Think about it. The Republican party is shrinking. So somehow they feel the smart thing to do is allow people back in churches and making them vote in person. Since the virus mostly kills off older people, these events will kill off mostly Republican voters. I don't want to see stupidity kill anyone so I'm against those things happening.

But then, when it does happen they won't take responsibility for it anyway.

Court Brief: 11.6K Dead People on Virginia’s Voter Rolls


John Binder


29 Apr 2020

About 11,600 dead people remain on the state of Virginia’s voter rolls, according to a court brief filed in United States District Court.

A court brief filed by the Public Legal Interest Foundation (PILF) alleges grave issues with Virginia’s voter rolls just as a lawsuit in the state seeks to strip witness requirements on mail-in ballots in the midst of the Chinese coronavirus crisis.

According to PILF, there are about 11,600 dead people on Virginia’s voter rolls — all of whom would receive mail-in ballots if an election were held by mail. These nearly 12,000 dead voters have corresponding published obituaries.

Another 1,772 registered voters have commercial addresses listed as their primary residence and nearly 600 voters have been flagged as having duplicated registrations.

On Wednesday, the court accepted PILF’s brief.

As Breitbart News wrote this month, PILF research shows that 28.4 million mail-in ballots have gone missing in the last four election cycles dating back to 2012. In the 2016 and 2018 elections, a total of about 16.4 million mail-in ballots went missing.

Currently, elected Democrats are lobbying for nationwide mail-in voting for the November presidential election — a move that would potentially deliver ballots to an estimated 24 million ineligible voters. The plan is being bankrolled by organizations funded by billionaire George Soros.

The brief is related to an ongoing lawsuit in the U.S. District Court for the Western District of Virginia. The case number is 6:20-cv-00024.


https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2020/...as-voter-rolls/

Oddly, I bet 11,600 dead people vote dem this election.

Quit it dude ... get your head out of your butt ... there’s no such thing as voter fraud ... just ask Pit ... ...

I wish they’d see how they voted ... *L* ...

28 Million Mail-In Ballots Went Missing in Last Four Elections
.
By Mark Hemingway


April 24, 2020


28 Million Mail-In Ballots Went Missing in Last Four Elections
(Kareem Elgazzar/The Cincinnati Enquirer via AP)

Between 2012 and 2018, 28.3 million mail-in ballots remain unaccounted for, according to data from the federal Election Assistance Commission. The missing ballots amount to nearly one in five of all absentee ballots and ballots mailed to voters residing in states that do elections exclusively by mail.

States and local authorities simply have no idea what happened to these ballots since they were mailed – and the figure of 28 million missing ballots is likely even higher because some areas in the country, notably Chicago, did not respond to the federal agency’s survey questions. This figure does not include ballots that were spoiled, undeliverable, or came back for any reason.

Although there is no evidence that the millions of missing ballots were used fraudulently, the Public Interest Legal Foundation, which compiled the public data provided from the Election Assistance Commission, says that the sheer volume of them raises serious doubts about election security.

These questions are particularly relevant as the COVID-19 pandemic is forcing states across the country to rapidly expand vote-by-mail operations in an election year. Democratic Sens. Amy Klobuchar and Ron Wyden have proposed the Natural Disaster and Emergency Ballot Act of 2020, a bill that would allow every eligible voter the opportunity to vote by mail, regardless of state laws governing mail-in ballots.

A significant increase in mail-in voting this fall could greatly incentivize “ballot harvesting,” where third parties collect mail-in ballots on behalf of voters and deliver them to election officials. There’s long been a consensus that such a practice incentivizes fraud, and ballot harvesting is illegal in most of the country. Public debate over the issue has intensified in recent years after a GOP operative in North Carolina was indicted for crimes related to ballot harvesting in 2018.

That same election cycle California legalized ballot harvesting, and observers say the practice played a key role in ousting several Republican congressmen in Orange County in 2018, a longstanding GOP stronghold in a state that has become very liberal in recent decades.

The fact that millions of unused mail-in ballots are floating around in every election cycle “is not a secret type data here – it's sitting there on the Internet, and you're paying for the server cost,” notes Logan Churchwell, a spokesman for PILF. “So what do people that really focus on the election process do about that? They go into ballot harvesting. If there's so many ballots out there in the wind unaccounted for by election officials, surely some manpower could be dedicated to go bring them in. And that's another part of the system where you have weaknesses and risk.”

To illustrate the risk, Churchwell notes that in 2016 Hillary Clinton won the popular vote by garnering over 2.8 million more votes than Donald Trump. But nearly 6 million unaccounted mail-in ballots were never counted in 2016, more than twice her margin in the popular vote. The potential to affect elections by chasing down unused mail-in ballots and make sure they get counted – using methods that may or may not be legal – is great.

There’s little doubt that as the number of mail-in ballots increases, so does fraud. A 2012 report in The New York Times noted that voter fraud involving mail-in ballots “is vastly more prevalent than the in-person voting fraud that has attracted far more attention, election administrators say. In Florida, absentee-ballot scandals seem to arrive like clockwork around election time.” According to a Wall Street Journal report on voter exploitation in Hispanic communities in Texas, mail-in ballots have “spawned a mini-industry of consultants who get out the absentee vote, sometimes using questionable techniques.” Poor, elderly, and minority communities are most likely to be preyed upon by so-called ballot “brokers.”

Concerns about fraud in mail-in ballots were serious enough that a 2008 report produced by the CalTech/MIT Voting Technology Project recommended that states “restrict or abolish on-demand absentee voting in favor of in-person early voting.”

“The convenience that on-demand absentees produces is bought at a significant cost to the real and perceived integrity of the voting process,” the report added. “On the face of it, early voting can provide nearly equal convenience with significantly greater controls against fraud and coercion.” Similarly, another academic study done in 2008 from Reed College flagged various concerns related to absentee voting and conceded there is a “great deal of literature on turnout” but when it comes to mail-in ballots there is “a dearth of research on campaign effects, election costs, ballot quality, and the risk of fraud.”

Despite these concerns, five states – Oregon, Washington, Colorado, Utah, and Hawaii – now do all elections exclusively by mail. Supporters point to smooth elections in these states as proof that it works. But PILF obtained voter data from Oregon, the first state to adopt voting by mail exclusively, for the 2012 and 2018 elections and checked it against census data. Of the 7 million ballots the state sent out in those two elections, some 871,000 ballots are totally unaccounted for.

Losing only one of eight ballots, as opposed to the national average of one in five, may be the result of Oregon having a more accurate listing of voters’ addresses than many other states, but that’s still a very high percentage of missing ballots, and Oregon would not reveal its data for the 2014 and 2016 elections for reasons the state would not disclose.

Regardless, U.S. Census data confirms that 11% of Americans move every year, and voters on the lower end of the economic scale are especially transient. Without implementing some extensive, and likely problematic, government surveillance program, there’s no way for election administrators to reliably get ballots to tens of millions of Americans every election cycle without a large percentage of ballots going to the wrong address. This problem is compounded by states that mail ballots automatically. (The author of this piece is from Oregon, where ballots with his name on them were sent to his parents’ address for years after he graduated from college and moved out of state -- despite repeated contacts with the county clerk telling them he had moved.)

The inherent problems of mail-in voting are being widely ignored, however. Use of mail-in ballots more than doubled from 24.9 million in 2004 to 57.2 million in 2016, and around 40% of U.S. votes are now done by mail. Along with this dramatic increase there have been virtually no new safeguards, scrutiny, or additional research on the risks of vote by mail. If the current pandemic is going to force the issue during a presidential election, proponents of voting by mail may have to address obvious risks that come with proposing that more than 200 million ballots be mailed out this fall.

“I really think the only reason vote-by-mail problems are not getting more attention on a regular basis, is that it's kind of an embarrassing problem and people just aren’t paying attention,” says Churchwell. “These numbers of missing ballots demonstrate large voter list maintenance failures and security gaps within the broader mail voting process.”


https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articl...Hi_2jy-q3AasS7U

Yet you don't think if any of them had actually voted they would tell you about that? They would.

All they did was show that voter roles weren't updated.

And yes diam, nothing in the article said any of those dead people had a single vote registered.

There goes you and that math problem again.

Being on the voter roles and actually voting are two different things.

Of the 11,600 dead people on the voter roles, How many voted?

J\C
If the libs here are good with mail in voting its prob bad for fair
and honest elections bank on it.... SMH.

Just got my mail in ballot for the local elections. I’ll go through the voter pamphlet this afternoon and read up on the measures. Then fill out my ballot from the comfort of my livingroom. I’ll mail it out on Monday. If mail in voting is good enough for our military overseas and our members of Congress, then it’s good enough for me. Not sure what the hubbub is all about.

Mail-in voting in Oregon has worked for decades, says Republican

https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch...e-voting-record

This guy passed away 2 years ago!


Just kidding.

Only mail in votes that should be allowed are from military personnel. No one else.

Oregon says different and has for decades with no problems.

And given his propensity for lying and misleading, if trump is against mail in elections, it's probably good for America. Bank on it

So my Mom in law, 87 years young but unable to stand in long lines can't vote by mail?

Are you saying senior citizens who regularly vote by absentee ballots should have their votes not count?

If trump and republicans don't want it, you can bet they are worried. Perhaps they should be.

I've voted by mail for the last 4 years. Best thing I ever did.

Standing in a long line in the Florida heat is just not fun, not to mention the time off work.

The last time I voted in person, I spent the first 15-20 minutes driving around and around waiting for a parking spot, then stood in line, a large portion in direct sun, for just over 2 hours.

This was at 7:30 am. I sweat so much standing there, I went home and took another shower and changed before heading to work.

Screw that, mail in for the win.

You're not a real American. Only a real American would wait in the heat to exercise a right that soldiers fought for. You must be wanting people to vote multiple times to help the deepstate come back into power. That sweat coming down your brow shows the mark of a true patriot. We must sweat our glands to defeat socialism. Only through in-person voting can we defeat George Soros.

O
M
F
G

It's President Trump. I have always shown respect for the office and person even if I didn't vote for the person.


Show respect or just go away. Serious as a heat attack here.

Respect is earned. Trump has done zero as President to earn respect. The office itself deserves a certain degree of respect, but if a person isn't living up to their end of the bargain, they don't deserve respect just because.

U and yours had such open minds on Mr. President when he took office ... I’m shocked he hasn’t “earned” your respect ...

I think it's hilarious that you group me in with anybody. You say "you and yours" like I have a huge history in this forum, or that you have any clue whatsoever what my political leanings are.

But you are a little bit right. I thought Trump and Hillary were two of the dumbest people possible to ever run against each other in election. So far neither has done much to change my mind.

Nobody is going to do that. Respect is given when respect is earned. When all someone can do is disrespect anyone and everyone who disagree with them, they get no respect in return.

I guess you feel we should respect a man who mocked a disabled reporter? Who called a woman a pig? Who claimed McCain isn't a war hero?

You, if you're serious you need to think again.

Not now nor ever has he been my president. He's made it perfectly clear time after time, he's only president for republicans, mostly Trumpians and yes men.

So i was right ... *LOL* ....

The fact u think trumps stupid is a definite sign of your intelligence ... based off that statement alone i can tell your intelligence couldn’t carry Trumps jock straps intelligence ...

Have you heard anything the man talk? He speaks like a toddler. Honestly, if you think he is intelligent, then i don't know what else to say.

*L* ... ya ... u don’t belong in OCD’s and Pits group .. what was i thinking ...

I think u guys call him stupid cause you can’t believe an orange dude kicked all your collective asses ...

O was a POS in my book ... but i would never call him stupid ... cause i ain’t stupid ... just sayin ...

He didn't "kick my ass." Listen to Obama speak, then listen to Trump. I'd never call Obama stupid either.

Obama was a POS why exactly? Trump has done things that are 1000x more corrupt/unethical yet people think he's a saviour of sorts. The dude lies every time he speaks. It's baffling to me.

Trump has done plenty of unethical things ... no doubt ... O is right there with him In many many areas and even tops him in some ....

Lying through his teeth about almost every single aspect of health care wasn’t unethical? ..

Lying about not knowing killary had a rogue email she was sending secured docs through wasn’t unethical? ...

Having his irs go after conservative non profits wasn’t unethical?

Sending Iran billions of cash on pallets wasn’t unethical?

Telling Putin’s aide when he thought the camera quit rolling to tell Putin no worries I’ll be able to do more things after the election was extremely ethical ...

I’m out ... u can’t have a discussion with a closed mind who refuses to look objectively at his peeps ...

And he did whoop your butt ... its why y’all hate him so much ...

I hate him because he’s a low intellect clown. A grifter. A womanizing pathetic excuse for a man. A liar. I bully and buffoon. A massive massive narcissist. And these are his best qualities.

I'm closed minded, yet you love Trump when he has done the same things. I didn't love Obama, but I think he's the better of the two between him and Trump. I honestly can't think of a single thing that Trump HASN'T lied about.

The Wall
His Taxes
Saying he had plans to replace Obamacare
Using his own resorts and properties and then charging the Secret Service premium rate.
Saying he wouldn't Golf ($200 million+ says otherwise)
Hiring his whole extended family to work in roles they aren't close to suited for.
Cheating on every wife he's ever had.
The list goes on.....

I'm ashamed that as a country, THIS is the guy we thought was best suited to run the country. THIS is the best we could come up with. It's completely baffling to me. Are we really this dumb?

The majority of those who voted weren't.

When your 2 major options are Hillary or Trump, you do swirl your pen around above the ballot and pick one randomly.

Right? I mean, there is no law saying there are 2 political parties in this country, we have just divided ourselves and point fingers even though the parties are just different sides of the same coin.

We could have the perfect candidate and if he/she is 3rd party, then he/she literally has zero chance.

My honest opinion is that it doesn't matter who we elect as President right now. The real problem starts in congress, we need to force them to set term limits, and/or vote them all out.

It will always be gridlock until we get rid of the old guard . Their only desire is protecting their own interests.

and the two parties have engineered the system to make it exceedingly difficult for a third party to come in and shake things up. After Ross Perot nearly did it way back when, the R's and D's got together and voted to bump up the percentage of the popular vote needed by a third party to get federal campaign dollars. The system is rigging itself for the system.


For the record, I too oppose mail-in voting, but I feel that extra accommodations for absentee balloting needs to be made for people of certain ages (60+, perhaps) or comorbidities. Basically, those most at risk to COVID complications should be allowed to vote by absentee ballot. Everyone else can go to the polls just as they can go to the grocery store.

100% Mail in voting is a proven system and has been working well since 1998 in Oregon without any wide spread voter fraud issues. It’s also been proven that more citizens vote in 100% mail in voting. Something that no GOPer wants. Especially trump supporters. And it’s also proven that wide spread voter fraud is a myth made up by trump and his supporters. Pfffft trump. What a pos y’all handed us.

Have fun standing in line. I sent my local voting ballot out in the mail this morning. I’ll vote against trump in the fall the same way.

I don't understand the opposition to mail in voting.

Here in Florida, my mail in ballot comes to my house. It's a thicker than normal paper, has a barcode to ensure it only gets counted once, and it requires my signature in case my vote is contested as fraudulent.

This is the 21st century, it's almost bewildering that we can't just all do this from our homes on our phones/computers.

It’s pretty simple. One side doesn’t want all U.S citizens votes to be counted.

I don't anticipate standing in line any more than I did the last time I went. There's no reason for my polling station to have fewer balloting areas than it normally does. Either way, I'm fine with it... it's not a big deal, and my legs work just fine. I'm not lame, nor am I lazy.. there's no reason for me to not go to a polling station. I can stand around a little.

Be respectful. Wear a mask. Enjoy.

At this point we should be able to vote online. We all have SS numbers. Sign in. Vote. I don’t get why we’re even dealing with the mail at this point.

Purp... I do believe there are polling stations here in Oregon. You COULD stand in a line if that made you feel more patriotic.

Pen and paper can’t be hacked. I’d never trust the internet for voting. Never.

I would love to have the mail in option, but I can use early voting almost as safely. BUT even if I have to chisel it in stone while standing naked a crowd of covid positive coughers, I'm going to cast that vote against Trump come hell or high water.

They are working their way to November by getting their followers to feel safe again against all scientific data. It's just a political tactic to get their voters to turn out even if it kills them.

I understand that, but in the end, they take your ballot, run it through a scanner and it goes via internet to the state office.

In a direct vote method, at least when you log in, you would be notified if your vote had already been placed, which you could contest immediately, or you place your vote, and any hacking happens after, which is not different than when you did it by paper.

So that is why you have been so adamant about mail in elections and people returning to work.
The truth finally comes out.

It isn't about lives with you, its about tactics.

Shame!

They most certainly can... and have. There's uncertainty over the extent, which is an annual debate on here and elsewhere.

Or it's about not needlessly exposing voters and election workers to a virus we can't sufficiently test for, don't have a vaccine for, and can't track. It's amazing that mail in voting has been fine for years until there is a pandemic and NOW people think it's a problem.

When tactics create dead people, yes, those tactics matter.

Yes, everything the right does is a tactical attempt to gain power and control... not like the left who is altruistic and compassionate in their motives.

Everything Trump is doing is about tactics and has nothing to do with safety. The numbers prove it.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/top-hou...-election-trump

The Communist part of Democrats again trying to find ways to steal elections when other tactics don't seem to be working. Shameful! Our founding fathers would be rolling in their graves if they knew what was happening to this Great Country.

Imagine being against Americans participating in democracy.

All of you against mail-in ballots are a disgrace.

Yes they would. They could have never of dreamed of a scenario where the people of this great nation would put a man like Trump in charge.

That is Balony. Everyone has the RIGHT to vote and that RIGHT remains.

You get anxiety whenever it's proposed that all Americans are mailed a ballot. It's why you keep replying to me about this subject

You don't want freedom and justice for all Americans. You only care about WASPs and the almighty dollar which your worship. If you cared about every American having a voice, you would support every American receiving a ballot in the mail.

Get your weak takes out of here and go kick rocks.

When you leave, you might want to dust off your photo of Ronnie Reagan and the orange haired adulterer who sit on top of your altar. I'd hate for you to lose sight of what your worship.

1- I don't get anxiety over anything.

2- I stand for the Constitution and Bill of Rights.
I EXPECT freedom and justice for all Americans.

3- I do not care about WASP's, especially Chinese Murder Hornets!

4- My posts are not weak as I stand for truth. My truth however comes from the real world and you do not.

5- When I leave, you may want to dust off Biden's brain.

Awesome. So I expect you'll stand with me in trying to outlaw conversion therapy?

Can you get the Senate to release the Tara Reade records?

How about allowing transgender individuals to serve in the military?

What are your thoughts on allowing a stone statue of the Qur'an in-front of a public courthouse?

Or is this going to be another "I don't do interviews" type moments. If you dodge all of this, I'll know your answer that's quoted in here is a sham.



We come from the same world of privilege. Instead, I check mine and you just don't care to.



Only if you tell mitch to unseal the records he asked for. That should be easy as you stand for justice. Make it happen.

I never said I was a brain dead Lib.

By the way, I have been meaning to ask you, when is your beloved Science going to show up to the scene?

When will their bus arrive as we bury 10's of thousands of our dead while they tell us to stay in the house, wear a mask and wash our hands?

Trump could have told us that!

Science did show up on the scene. Trump force fed them disinfectant and is ignoring them all.

So Science provided 2 treatments that sometimes work and you are satisfied?

Pfft.

If Trump had not fired the response team, had taken early action, and had stepped up preparations early on we may have never needed to shut things down at all, because science could have been guiding us...

Do you have any idea how long it takes in most cases to develop a vaccine for a virus?

Let's put it this way, they are doing a far better job of finding things that help mitigate the symptoms than Mr. I'm Not A Doctor did. Hydroxychloroquine and disinfectant aren't the answer but they are looking into other things that seem to have a lot more potential.

Reading up on things may help you but that wouldn't be very Trump like.

Yes I have full knowledge of how long it takes science to get things done, if ever.

Just need to survive long enough for them to get done.

Gonna stay in your basement for years or decades?

In the meantime, we will take their sometimes it works sometimes it doesn't, meds.

OR

We will live our lives to their fullest while practicing social distancing, washing our hands and wearing masks.

Being less self-centered and selfish will help you greatly.

Back to work time! We have a Nation to save for future generations!

That simply isn't true. Underage people can't vote. Felons can't vote. Dead people can't vote.

People have to prove their age and ID all the time.

I do understand why you don't want people to show documentation they are legal voters. You aren't fooling anybody.

You can't provide one sound reason why people shouldn't show legal ID when going to vote.

You can't cash checks at the bank without a ID.
You can't buy liquor without ID.
You can't buy a gun without ID.
You can't buy a car or drive without ID.

Face it man, you're nothing but bogus blabber. Everybody has ID, and if not, they are slackers who should have no more right to vote than a felon.

JMO.

I bought sudafed from a pharmicist a few months ago. A friend. I know her, and her husband, well. She called me by name when I walked in. She then told me I had to show her my i.d. For a pack of 12 sudafed pills.

I have to show my i.d. when I go to vote, even though the poll workers call me by name when I walk in.

Hell, at well over 50, I get carded at some local gas stations when buying beer.

I can't go to the doctor without showing my i.d.

Just filled out the fafsa yesterday with my daughter - had to enter her state i.d., as well as mine.

You can't function in this country without an i.d., unless it comes to voting - then, some think anyone and everyone can vote.

And those people that can't afford a state i.d. because they are too poor? Somehow, without an i.d., they qualify for medicare.






But I get told by some on here that it isn't fair to require i.d. to vote because some people can't afford the $5 to $15 it takes to get a simple state i.d., valid for 4-6 years.

Hey, I'm responding to you in good faith here. You bring up some good points and I'd like your take on this.



What's the reason for this? Is it an added punishment for committing a felony?

While I understand, education research shows that zero tolerance really goes nowhere. Research shows that interventions actually help, and people can become rehabilitated. I know Florida is letting felons vote, and I hope the rest of the country takes the same initiatives.



We've talked a bit since 2011 about how voter ID can disenfranchise people. I'm all for voting with ID, yet I want to see us make it happen so all of our voters can easily obtain ID.

Wouldn't it be wonderful to see a 60-80% of eligible voters participate in democracy.



You actually didn't ask what my position was. I beliee people should establish who they are. I want it done in a method to where all American can establish their eligibility. The current system, not getting into the whole by design/they're too lazy discussion, has it so that's it's hard for a considerable amount of minorities to not participate in democracy. Some of that involves identification.

I'd actually like for election day to be on a Saturday or to be considered a national holiday. It'd be great to see full participation with as many barriers lowered as possible.

You're the one assuming. All you have to do is ask to clarify my positions.

You can't provide one sound reason why people shouldn't show legal ID when going to vote.



Who are we to judge why someone is doing something?

It'd be easy for me as a teacher to say "huh, this kid is failing and didn't turn in work. His fault" and wash my hands of it. However, it's my job to make sure I do everything I can to put a child in a position to succeed. I throw away any potential negative thought and do everything I can to try and get the student to a positive frame of motivation. We can do this with society as a whole, too!

We may be of different ideologies, but I know you're a thinker on this. Let's keep this discussion going.

The DMV's are closed right now. I got a letter from the state I have to carry extending my license in to November as I need to renew it.

I need to get the new license so I can fly when I choose to do so. Not sure I will do that anytime soon.

To do so I have to have a birth certificate, which I have. A social security card, which I have, and proof of residence. I have to bring a couple of recent mailings with my name and address.

No, it isn't easy. If I want to fly I have to do the things necessary to participate.

As to voting, I want everybody eligible to be able to vote. I am more concerned with people voting who aren't eligible.

Well this is actually a non issue for mail in voting because in order to receive that mail in ballot you still have to be registered to vote. States have requirements for registration and if need be can make tweaks to their registration processes. If it's important that somebody show proof of citizenship or an ID of some sort, they could just do it then. And ID numbers can be transmitted verbally, electronically, or even scanned into picture form and mailed. There is no need to show up at a physical place to present this ID. Even the IRS does not require that and they send refunds out in vast sums all based on mail in and electronic submissions.

There are also many other ways to verify people who are they claim. Credit bureaus ask questions about your credit report items. Tax
return information is personally identifiable. Bank accounts, debit cards, and credit cards are personally identifiable. Bills in your name, SSNs, service records, health records, birth certs, titles, deeds, leases, loans, state/fed benefits/assistance, etc. are all personally identifiable documentation that states could use in any combination to prove you are eligible to vote.

The excuses and tired argument that you need to show a physical ID in a physical location to a temporary party employee with zero fraud training is just a ruse to suppress voter rights. I can literally buy or sell anything online, by mail, or with electronically transmitted documentation with nothing more than a notary witnessing OR electronic verification processes IF I even need that much verification. So I'm sure we can figure out mail in ballots if we put our big boy pants on and get to work on the issue.

I understand why you see it that way.. others see it as a way to ensure voters rights.

I agree with much of what you said regarding the variety of ways to ensure fraud doesn't happen.. so to help me reconcile this, if we are able to ensure 150 million Americans can vote remotely and still be safe and fraud free, even though many of them lack access to the technology to "scan things" or have a secure wifi connection, etc... then why couldn't congress vote remotely? A much smaller group of people with access to the very best technology and security...

J\C
I love how the flim flam lefties always use the suppression issue when it comes to having to be a legally registered voter . The real suppression is when I can get my LEGAL vote negated by an illegal voter ,come lefties at least try to be honest.

1. Felons
I'm actually a little on the fence regarding letting felons vote. I'm also of the opinion that we imprison more people than we should. I agree with your stance on rehabilitation. I would be ok w/ keeping the 'felons can't vote' rule so long as the pool of people affected by this rule is boiled down to the worst of the worst.

2. People have to prove their age/ID all the time
I agree with you on your last point. I would love to see that high of a turnout. Unfortunately, I don't think figuring out this whole ID thing would be even a drop in the bucket to getting us there. Way bigger reasons why people don't vote.

3. You aren't fooling anybody (These titles are just so I can respond to each of your sections, line by line, and clearly show which is which)
Making voting day a national holiday is a fantastic idea. That, or implement the practice of getting paid excused time in order to go and vote, and providing proof.
You mentioned lowering barriers. I'm all for lowering barriers... as long as the barriers are well-defined and enforced. Establish your rules, and follow them. If they suck, then fix them.

4. Slackers
I did want to mention one thing about your teacher comment. The big difference between you and your students... and local/state/fed govt and the citizens is that it's not the governments job to teach/hold their hands. I think voters should be treated as adults, where them voting is their responsibility. I think there's a fine line between giving sufficient guidance/help and absolving the voter from responsiblity.

I believe once you pay your debt to society, you should be allowed to vote. Several states have already began to allow it. You either paid you debt to society or you haven't. Holding it over their heads for their entire life isn't justice.

https://legalbeagle.com/6500867-states-allow-convicted-felons-vote.html

I think it's ridiculous that congress can't work and vote remotely. I also understand your concern with a lack of access to technology for making copies and such. Most of these are more publically available than quick transportation to a polling station though, for those lacking that. The benefit of verification at registration electronically or via mail would allow people many options and more time to qualify as well.

Another thing I would point out is that in Ohio if you do not have proper ID or you can not be found on the voter rolls, you still have the option to vote on a supplemental ballot. This flies in the face of needing an ID to vote, although these ballots are rarely counted unless the race is very close... sometimes not even then.

I thought most Republicans are for State's Rights? You know the mail in voting is a State's choice, right? So which is it?

Like I said in a previous post, mail in voting has been happening for years, and Trump admits he did it, yet opposes others doing it. Hypocrisy at it's finest.

J\C
Hypocrisy to the lying left maybe but VOTER FRAUD to Republicans for sure, The left hypocrisy at its finest, right.

What the heck does that even mean?

Give it a minute. The line about the Germans bombing Pearl Harbor is most likely coming next. He hasn't figured out that Trump has lied more than any other elected official in history. I had no idea Trump was on the left.

ok Pit, i need you to stop being fake. you know damn well we had to defend our Servers from hillary and the germans back in 1865, at the same time Fredrick douglas was drafting our constitution. Trump wouldnt lie to us!

This is fake news. Our planes during the revolutionary war evolved in time to stop the hacking then!

If it's about "state's rights", then why is pelosi pushing it on her coronovirus stimulus for the entire country? Why would anyone want anonymous voters in an election?

There's ways you can make sure people aren't doing this the wrong way.

Yet, I'm quite certain you're against expanding democracy to all Americans. Your "nope, can't do this!" attitude speaks volumes.

What are these ways you speak of? They'd have to stick poll workers in everyone's house to make sure the voter on the ballot is that person. What happens when the usps loses a bag of ballots? What happens if someone steals your ballot from your mailbox? How long before people are selling their ballots?

I'd rather the lazy stay home like they always do. I'd also prefer those citizens show their ID at the polls.

Let the experts figure it out.

Neither you or me are experts in figuring out how to do this. It's worth a look.

Brenda Snipes or Susan Bucher might be available for advice.

Flashback:
The corruption of Brenda Snipes

"Brenda Snipes, the woman in charge of the ballot counting in Broward, is refusing to answer questions regarding why the ballots have yet to be counted".

To commit voter FRAUD as usual... What else is new for the libs.

So much for, "We, the people". Is pelosi one of your experts?

I am not against that at all.


I am against illegals and dead people voting. Grandma died last year but was never removed from the voter rolls. She gets a ballot. Now daughter or grandson vote for her.

The only way to a fair election is to show up and show proper ID.

Tell you what my friend, if you can figure a way to provide a secure system that prevents illegals or dead people from voting, I will go with the plan. I can't figure out a way.


I am trying to have a honest conversation here and people are talking about Germans bombing Pearl Harbor.


That is why this country has gone to crap, and it ticks me off.

I voted by mail-in-vote in the Ohio primary. This was my first time through this process. Here was the experience.

To request a ballot, I had to print out the proper request forms for my county's board of elections.

On the request form you had to provide your SSN#, state ID# or driver's license # and then sign the form.

The Board of Elections then verified that information and your signature had to match the signature on file when you completed your voter registration.

Once I received the actual ballot, you cast your votes by coloring in the bubbles next to your choice of candidate with black or blue ink.

Once completed, you signed your ballot and again had to write either your SSN#, driver's license # or state ID #. I then had to put the ballot in the Board of Elections envelope, seal it and then seal that envelop in another Board of Elections envelop and return either by mail or drop-off in person at the county Board of Elections.

Again, if the signature on the ballot does not match the signature on the voter registration on file with county Board of Elections, the ballot gets tossed.

So, if someone was to steal your ballot from your mailbox, they either need to have your SSN#, Driver's License# or State ID# and also be able to accurately duplicate your signature.

But that is a legal request for an absentee ballot. The democrat idea is to mail ballots out to everyone, with no proof of person. Big difference.

Facts dictate that your statement is totally devoid of reality.

But you keep repeating the same lies and propaganda despite it being proven - factually - to be incorrect. smh

Then you aren't for democratic process. I have developed some tremors in my hands. My signature looks way different from what it might have been when I first registered. You can't hardly read it.

So I am willing to go down and prove who I am to vote but you want my vote tossed because my signature looks different?


I don't want people forging signatures.

Pennsylvania Supreme Court Rejects Suit Delaying Mail-in-Ballot Deadline


Katherine Rodriguez

16 May 2020


The Pennsylvania state Supreme Court on Friday rejected a lawsuit that would force election officials to accept mail-in-ballots as long as they are received within a week after the primary or general elections while the coronavirus pandemic is in place.

The Senior Law Center, Disability Rights Pennsylvania, and other organizations filed the suit in late April, arguing that postal delays caused by the coronavirus pandemic could cause ballots not to be received at their destinations in time to count, the Associated Press reported.

However, Democrat Gov. Tom Wolf’s administration argued against it, saying the plan would be unconstitutional because it would give voters different deadlines.

According to a 2019 law, the deadline for county elections offices to receive mail-in-ballots is 8:00 p.m. when the polls close on election day.

Pennsylvania’s primary was postponed from April 28 until June 2 because of the coronavirus, and officials say many votes will be cast by mail.

Meanwhile, counties are planning on limiting the number of polling locations due to the coronavirus.

The state legalized mail-in-ballots last fall, and they will be implemented for the first time this year. If voters wish to request a mail-in-ballot, they must do so by May 26, NBC 10 Philadelphia reported.

Recent data has not shown a compelling public health justification for mail-in-ballots.

Wisconsin is one of the only U.S. states that held its primary election with in-person voting after the nation’s coronavirus lockdowns began.

The election drew 413,000 participants, and only a few dozen out of that group were confirmed to have contracted the virus by either voting or serving as a poll worker. None of those cases was fatal, and the data on the current infection rate equals a rate below two-hundredths of one percent.

https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2020/...ftcyOpaOA7zyRKU

I didn't set the requirements. I explained my experience that was in place for the mail in voting for Ohio this past primary election.

So no, I don't want your vote tossed. It's not up to me.

Don't be a goof.

Yes, mailing a ballot to everyone, whether requested or not, likely will present challenges. I'd like to read a detailed plan on the verification process before committing to a strong opinion. I do not see a lot of data to support widespread voter fraud. It's more of a boogeyman than anything else at this time.

Voters, republican, democrat, independent or otherwise, however, need to fulfill their end of the bargain as well in the verification process, whether it be in-person or mail-in.

For me, it was more of a process to vote by mail vs. voting in person, due to the double and triple checking to make sure every 'I' was dotted and 'T' was crossed to ensure my ballot would be counted. I can see where mistakes would be made in the process and votes not counted.

As an example, data from an article in the FiveThirtyEight...



https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the...y-an-advantage/

Because they are asking for the money to help state and local governments use mail in voting. It doesn't force them to.

I'm going to leave my perpetual vote in my will to the OCD screw the GOPers foundation... lol

Pretty funny, but in a way, that is my fear. LOL In the year 2120 your vote is still being counted.


That was good my friend. Somebody looks at the records..."This guy is 165 years old!" LOL

Might as well let me vote, Some Nigerian is probably going to be collecting my social security.

It is 100% worth a look. I would be lying if I said I had full confidence in our federal OR state governments to get this set up and executed in orderly fashion in under 6 months, considering the scale that it has to be set up on...

I am not opposed to the concept of mail in voting. Heck I'm not opposed to the concept of on-line voting... but my faith in the government to do it well?...

I'm always weary of this, "let the experts" line of thought.

The experts once thought we were entering a new ice age in the 70s. Then they tried to convince us that we would all burn to death in 20-30 years in the 90s. They all thought it was good to trade mortgages on the stock market in the 00s. Lately, they told us millions would die in the US due to the virus.

The experts have not been doing so well in the last 50 to 60 years.

Sort of falls into the 'death of expertise' discussion which is very close to the anti-intellectualism discussion on a different thread.

"Experts have not been doing well for 50-60 years" ?

And you sight a single topic - climate change - a new science with limited data and an evolving amount of data/science/expertise to make or back up your claim?

I am assuming that was a flippant comment - but still.

As for them telling us millions "would" die .... that's not what they said but I guess it fits with your motive. I believe what they said was millions 'could' / 'might' die.... and action was needed. . . . and with a death toll getting close to 100K - and with no vaccine in sight and with all sorts of other unknowns - I don't know that I would be so quick to assume the numbers are in a nose dive. 1,000 deaths a day is nothing to be dismissed.

Actually, I was using some of the far sweeping predictions that the experts have been using for years to change our way of life. Here's your millions prediction from a source that also repeats "experts" predictions on climate change.
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/19/the-coro...visor-says.html
It looks like they did say that.

I do appreciate your claim of climate change being a "new science" that changes constantly with new data. People call me a denier when I say things like that.

Whooosh.

Point missed. Totally.

And as for Climate change. It is a newer science. Unquestionably.
I guess if things are new you want to dismiss them? That's your opinion which is all fine and dandy - but again, not the point.

I'd say you missed the point. I cited 4 different expert predictions. Global cooling, global warming, trading mortgages, predictions on covid. All of them have been wrong, while all were pronounced true when they were made.

Our voting in this country has evolved slowly over time, and has been proven rather stable. Now a group of people want to suddenly make wholesale changes due to a temporary situation that can be easily mitigated with a little personal responsibility.

And if social responsibility was a strong American trait, I'd agree you have a point. But we have a blend of responsible people in a sea of idiots during normal times. Now that scoffing at science and making death threats for those that oppose your personal views are in vogue, I don't want to stand in line with Karen and Billy Bob on election day.

Seriously? Have you been to the grocery store in the past two months?

So we are up to "four" areas of "expertise" and even though two of them are essentially the same field - you think that nullifies Experts everywhere in all fields which is your original comment which is what I responded too. Sure.

So now you are up to "four" examples and you think it justifies your claim that Experts have not been doing well for 50-60 years. Pfffft.

Nothing about the "millions" comment? I found you proof on that one in about 3 seconds.

If you're too scared to go to the polls, get an absentee ballot. I prefer to vote the old fashioned way. In person.

I should challenge you to find me something the experts have been right about in the past 50-60 years.

Michigan sends mail-in vote applications to all registered voters

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-michigan-idUSKBN22V2VQ

Elections are handled on a state to state basis. Which is why some states have far more restrictions and have taken measures to make voting harder. Each state has their own rules and laws concerning elections. But Trump doesn't like that. So King Trump is now threatening states......

Trump threatens to hold up funding to Michigan and Nevada for expanding vote-by-mail access

President Donald Trump threatened on Wednesday to withhold funding from Michigan and Nevada for expanding their mail-in voting services in an effort to avoid crowded polling centers during the coronavirus pandemic.
Trump’s tweet incorrectly said voters in Michigan, a crucial swing state, will receive an absentee ballot in the mail.

“Breaking: Michigan sends absentee ballots to 7.7 million people ahead of Primaries and the General Election. This was done illegally and without authorization by a rogue Secretary of State,” Trump tweeted. “I will ask to hold up funding to Michigan if they want to go down this Voter Fraud path!”

Michigan Secretary of State Jocelyn Benson, a Democrat, quickly corrected the president with her own tartly worded tweet.
“We sent applications, not ballots. Just like my GOP colleagues in Iowa, Georgia, Nebraska and West Virginia,” Benson said.

Benson’s office did not immediately return a request for comment.
It’s unclear what “funding” Trump is referring to. The White House declined to comment.
A senior administrative official at the Office of Management and Budget, which develops and executes the budget across the Executive Branch, told CNBC in a statement that “no decisions have been made at this time” regarding Trump’s threat to withhold funding and that “discussions are on-going.”
And it is unclear whether Republicans in the state will challenge the move.
Shortly after that tweet, Trump unloaded on Nevada for expanding mail-in voting to carry out the state’s congressional primaries on June 9.

“State of Nevada ‘thinks’ that they can send out illegal vote by mail ballots, creating a great Voter Fraud scenario for the State and the U.S. They can’t! If they do, ‘I think’ I can hold up funds to the State. Sorry, but you must not cheat in elections,” he tweeted.

Republicans vying in the primary for Nevada’s 4th Congressional District are itching to win that seat held by Democratic Rep. Steven Horsford.
Nevada Secretary of State Barbara Cegavske, a Republican, introduced the vote-by-mail initiative in March in response to the coronavirus outbreak, Nevada TV station KSNV reported.

Trump has been a staunch critic of vote-by-mail expansion. In April, he said mail-in voting “doesn’t work out well for Republicans,” suggesting that easier access to absentee ballots could determine whether the Republicans retain control over the Senate or win the House. It may also affect Trump’s own fortunes in his reelection bid this year, especially in swing states where margins could be razor thin.

He has claimed that voting by mail leads to voter fraud, but there is no evidence that this is true. Earlier this year, Trump submitted an absentee ballot to vote for himself in Florida’s presidential primary.

Michigan is among several states to take action to limit in-person voting due to the fear of spreading the coronavirus.

The pandemic has upended 2020 elections, forcing officials to seek safer or alternatives for Americans to cast their votes.

In the last two months, multiple states and territories either delayed or adjusted their presidential primaries due to a fear of spreading the virus among large groups.

Already, more than a dozen states have begun to prepare for the November election, with the anticipation that more voters will choose mail-in ballots over in-person voting. California Gov. Gavin Newsom signed an executive order on May 8 allowing all registered voters in the state to receive a mail-in ballot for the November election.

The issue has attracted the attention of several heavyweight Democrats, including House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and Sens. Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren.

On Tuesday, Warren urged the Senate to include $4 billion in the next coronavirus relief package to allow states to expand their vote-by-mail services for the general election.

The outbreak has spread to dozens of countries, with more than 4.9 million confirmed cases worldwide and over 323,653 deaths, according to data from Johns Hopkins University. There are at least 1.5 million cases in the United States and at least 91,938 deaths, according to the latest tallies.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/05/20/coronavi...-expansion.html

I guess he hasn't been able to figure out that some states already vote by mail in some, or all of their elections already and have been for some time in certain cases.....

State Statutes on All-Mail Elections

States that conduct all elections by mail:

Colorado (CRS §1-5-401)

Hawaii (Hawaii Stat. §11-101)

Oregon (ORS §254.465)

Utah (Utah Code Ann. §20A-3a-302)

Washington (Rev. Code of Wash. 29A.40.010)

States that permit counties to opt into conducting all elections by mail:

California: Any county may conduct any election as an all-mail election following statutory guidelines. (Cal. Elec. Cde §§4005-4008).

Nebraska: Any county of less than 10,000 inhabitants may apply to the secretary of state to mail ballots for all elections in lieu of establishing polling places (Neb. Rev. Stat. §32-960).

North Dakota: Counties may conduct any election by mail. Applications for mailed ballots are sent to each individual listed on the central voter file (note that North Dakota does not require voter registration ahead of the election) and there must be one or more polling places in the county for voting in the usual manner (ND Cent. Code §16.1-11.1-01 et seq.)

States that permit some elections to be conducted by mail:

Alaska: Elections that are not held on the same day as a general, party primary or municipal election (Alaska Stat.§15.20.800)

Arizona: A city, town, school district or special district may conduct elections by mail (Ariz. Rev. Stat. Ann. §16-409, §16-558)

Florida: Referendum elections at the county, city, school district or special district level (Fla. Stat. §101.6102)

Kansas: Nonpartisan elections at which no candidate is elected, retained or recalled and which is not held on the same date as another election (Kan. Stat. Ann. §25-432)

Maryland: Special elections not held concurrently with a regularly scheduled primary or general election (Md. Election Code §9-501)

Missouri: Nonpartisan issue elections at which no candidate is elected, retained or recalled and in which all qualified voters of one political subdivision are the only voters eligible to vote (Mo. Rev. Stat. §115.652 et seq.)

Montana: Any election other than a regularly scheduled federal, state, or county election; a special federal or state election, unless authorized by the legislature; or a regularly scheduled or special election when another election in the political subdivision is taking place at the polls on the same day (MCA 13-19-101 et seq.)

Wyoming: Counties may decide to conduct special elections not held in conjunction with a primary, general or statewide special election entirely by mail (Wyo. Stat. 22-29-115)

States that permit certain jurisdictions or portions of a jurisdiction to be designated as all-mail based on population:

Idaho: A precinct which contains no more than 140 registered electors at the last general election may be designated by the board of county commissioners a mail ballot precinct no later than April 1 in an even-numbered year (Idaho Code §34-308)

Minnesota: Elections conducted by a municipality having fewer than 400 registered voters on June 1 of an election year and not located in a metropolitan county (Minn. Stat. §204B.45)

Nevada: Whenever there were not more than 20 voters registered in a precinct for the last preceding general election (Nev. Rev. Stat. §293.213)

New Jersey: A municipality with a population of 500 or fewer persons, according to the latest federal decennial census, may conduct all elections by mail (NJRS §19.62-1)

New Mexico: A county may designate a precinct as a mail ballot election precinct if it has fewer than 100 voters and the nearest polling place for an adjoining precinct is more than 20 miles driving distance from the precinct boundary in question (N. M. Stat. Ann. § 1-6-22.1)

https://www.ncsl.org/research/elections-and-campaigns/all-mail-elections.aspx

I'm predicting right now, write it down... if Trump wins the election in November, there will be a whole slew of articles blaming the victory on improprieties with mail in voting and demanding recounts and investigations...

It's likely to happen if he loses as well... both will be fun to watch..

And it will all boil down to who has control of the state. In most cases that would be Democratic run states that will allow mail in voting. Most of them already know Democrats will win the state regardless if they allow mail in voting or not. So while I won't rule out what you say, it would be much less likely that most states who allow mail in voting will go Republican.

But hey, we already know what Trump will do. I mean remember 2016? If he won he would accept the election results. If he lost, it was fixed.

So we can be 100% sure you will at lest be half right.

Here were the tweets...

I sure do remember that. I remember what Hillary and the democrats did too.. I remember them all having a cow when Trump said he would respect the outcome of the election... if he won. Then Obama had to persuade Hillary to make the concession call after learning that she lost, then months (years) of whining about the electoral college and throwing the popular vote results into every conversation (as if it mattered)... I sure do remember it like it was yesterday.. because I saw it just yesterday.

So one sid did accept it even though it took some persuading and the other side took refusing to accept it as a preemptive strike to anger and work up their supporters and sow the seed of contempt. that would be correct.

And this isn't the first time Democrats lost the presidency because every Americans vote isn't counted the same.

Hey, don't blame me because Donald Trump had the courage to say out loud what Hillary was also thinking.


The electoral college works, get over it.

j/c

https://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/politics/more-than-80-ballots-sent-to-san-pedro-apartment/106443/

Does the election get invalidated if 150% of the population votes?

Depends on who wins.

Must be a big apartment!! :-p

I am honestly curious as how you think the electoral college works? I'm not saying we should even get rid of it, but when we are taught our entire lives that "every vote counts" and then you learn that essentially certain votes count "more" than others, then it's not really even anymore.

How we use something that isn't simply popular vote is beyond me, regardless of which party would win.

I can see clearly the Constitution and history of this country is no longer taught in school.

To make this quick, the US is supposed to be a union of 50 separate countries, with an overseeing federal government. The federal government was originally supposed to settle disputes between states, and set an overall policy for the states to act as a whole.

In this light, the House was to be directly elected by the people, and be direct representatives of those people. The Senate was to be appointed by state representatives that were elected directly by the citizens of each particular state. That was changed to a direct election by the 17th amendment. The House was to represent the people, and the Senate was to represent the states.

The president is to be elected by electors of each state, with the number of those electors determined by the state's population. The electors are to vote for a president based on the votes of the citizens of each state. This was to prevent large population centers from completely controlling the presidency. The electoral college was to assure each state's populace had a say in the presidency, and maintain a ballance between the cities and rural areas.

A popular vote now would have the populations of NY, CA, and IL electing the president, with no other state's populace having much say.

Romney counters Trump: 90 percent of 'very Republican' Utah votes by mail

https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/4989...h-votes-by-mail

Yeah, nothing has changed since 1781 when it was approved.

And there in lies the rub. Utah isn't the only Republican state that mainly votes by mail. The difference is Trump says nothing about those states. He picks and chooses. He targets Democratic states and his legend of followers blindly applaud.

At least this is something we can agree on.

I don't think that means what you think it means. How many people are using muskets now?

So as technology changes our constitutional principles become less valid?

And just what has changed so much to invalidate the electoral college? It still serves the same purpose it was originally intended. It makes sure that lesser populated states have a say in the presidential election.

And for those of you that still think election cheating is a myth:

https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2020/...uff-ballot-box/

DELETED....wrong forum

I understand the premise of it, but what I don't understand is that because it gives smaller states a higher electoral vote per capita, it essentially makes the larger populace states have their citizens' votes count "less".

Compare California and West Virginia. CA has 55 electoral college votes and a population of 39,937,489, so essentially 726,136 per vote. West Virginia has 5 electoral college votes and a population of 1,778,070, so 355,614 per vote.

Obviously people would rather win California, but the "power" of the voters is diminished comparatively speaking.

If it's pure popular vote, every vote counts the same.

But:

According to Article II, Section 1, Clause 2 of the Constitution, each state legislature determines the manner by which its state's electors are chosen. Each state's number of electors is equal to the combined total of the state's membership in the Senate and House of Representatives; currently there are 100 senators and 435 representatives.[1][2][3] Additionally, the Twenty-third Amendment, ratified in 1961, provides that the District of Columbia (D.C.) is entitled to the number of electors it would have if it were a state, but no more than the least populated state (presently 3).[4] U.S. territories are not entitled to any electors as they are not states.[5][6]

To me, the issue more so is that if you are a republican in California or NY, or a Democrat in Oklahoma of Louisiana then essentially your vote doesn't count

Do you think it's safe to say that, generally, urban voters and rural voters frequently have different voting priorities? And different approaches to how best to achieve their priorities? To the point that they don't even know what each other's real priorities are? The things which may work well in the cities don't work as well in the country and vice versa?

Because if we went with pure popular vote, there would be zero need to address the people who live in the country. Not near zero, absolutely zero.

The 3 most populated metropolitan areas, NY/NJ, LA, and Chicago.. have more popular votes than the combined popular votes of:

Alabama, Louisiana, Kentucky, Oklahoma, Utah, Iowa, Arkansas, Mississippi, Kansas, Nebraska, West Virginia, Idaho, Montana, South Dakota, North Dakota, Alaska, and Wyoming...

So why on earth would ANY presidential candidate EVER feel the need to champion a cause that might be good for rural voters but not good for urban voters? There would be ZERO REASON TO DO THAT.

This isn't some big breaking news. It's democratic primaries and everybody knows the dem establishment cheats. EVERYBODY.

I guess that makes breaking the law ok, then?

With popular vote, if you are in the smaller states your vote wouldn't count.

Hilarious... we went from fear of "voter fraud" as the grounds to make it harder for people to vote, to "election cheating". Lol

Trump proved voter fraud is a media lie, so now we're rolling with a new phrase so you can include a bent judge ... lol

How is not changing how people vote making it harder? Stuffing ballot boxes is cheating. Voting more than once is fraud.

How? If I live in NYC, you live in rural Ohio. We each have 1 vote. How does 1 count and 1 doesn't? They carry exactly the same weight in a popular vote.

What DC said earlier makes a shred of sense, but I still think popular vote is more fair than smaller states' votes carrying more weight as they do now.

You are right - Popular vote means all votes count as 1. And everyone's vote is equal. What DC said is correct in that if the interests of big urban populations dominate the elections and then the policies - potentially folks in rural areas may suffer, but there is enough population in rural areas to always be a big enough "swing" vote that they would always influence the election. Even in big urban populations that are solid blue - there is a significant enough % of voters for independents or GOP that it would not be as lop-sided as suggested.

However - the current system is never going to change. To change it would require the consent of many of the small states that currently overwhelmingly benefit from the current set up.

There are two different issues - the vote by mail issue is a safety factor with CV-19 going on. There is no good reason for people to expose themselves to ANY risk in order to vote when there are easy, safe ways to vote differently. Voting by mail has been going on for a long time and is not "new"

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020/05/...mp-opposes.html

Aside from that - there is a campaign by the Alt Right and fear mongers that is based on flat out lies, hysteria and propaganda. Efforts to change voting laws and regulations and close polling stations to make it harder for one particular voter type that is traditionally Democratic. . . . The movement is all based on alleged voter fraud - whether it's by illegals or otherwise - The claim has been lead by Trump and Trump supporter. We even saw Trump lie and create lots of noise about this a couple years ago in FL.

The truth is there is no mass, wide-spread voter fraud. Trump commissioned a panel to look into it. Handpicked by his best and most loyal .... they found NOTHING. Then there is this today:

https://www.tampabay.com/florida-politic...te-fraud-probe/

https://www.politico.com/newsletters/flo...employee-489288

Meanwhile at the time Trump was saying endlessly there was fraud and claiming the election was being stolen from the Right. Pfft.

Have you been to the grocery store in the past two months? If you have, how is that different from going to vote?

The thing for me, is this...

You're telling me... that in the year 2020 we don't have the capability of allowing people to exercise their constitutional right w/o exposing themselves to a pandemic?

I'm setting up my house so that my son's ceiling fan turns itself on when his room gets too hot.... I'm installing an accessory that allows me to check if the garage door is open w/o me being there... and I can close it remotely.... my thermostat is learning my household's schedule and is adjusting the HVAC schedule to continually minimize heating/cooling costs w/o affecting comfort.

... but if I want to vote I HAVE to go and stand in line?

Nope. Don't buy it.

You should apply for an absentee ballot. Happens all the time.

That's funny right there. How is voting different than buying food to keep myself alive?

I'll play along. When I shop I go to my PC - I enter my order. I go park, call a number and someone loads my car. I drive home, the wife wipes all surfaces, puts groceries away and then I shower. None of which has ANYTHING to do with voting or how safe it may or may not be. I supplied you information that Mail in voting is not new. That mass voter fraud is essentially a giant Alt Right myth that has been dis-proven ... and your change of topic is to talk about the risks I may or may not assume when I go grocery shopping.

The last time I went into a store was Saturday night before Mothers Day - store was packed. 1/2 wore masks and were always 6 ft apart. 1/2 didn't wear masks. Of the non mask wearers - maybe half were careful with distance ... the other half could give a rats patootie about others.

Again - groceries aside - why should ANYONE expose themselves to ANY risk in order to vote when they do not NEED to.

Let me guess, you're 102 with copd.

This virus is not the black plague, and it's barely worse than the flu. Your risk of voting in person is no more than going grocery shopping, and you're going to touch a lot less things voting. I didn't expect you to catch the comparison.

BTW, voter fraud has been rampant since voting was invented. In this country, it been everything from giving away liquor at the polls, to the grandfather clause for blacks, to ballot stuffing in Philadelphia for judges (recent), to South Carolina mail in ballots being sent to Maryland (it must be hard to achieve that level of incompetence without conscience effort), to bags of ballots being found on a road (Al Franken). Rushing an all mail ballot will lead to extreme fraud. All states wanting all mail ballots should redo its voter rolls to ensure ballots are only sent to registered voters. There should also be a way to determine a ballot has been received and counted properly.

This is so stupid it's hardly worth a reply. When is the last time the flu has killed 100,000 people in less than three months?

I can renew my drivers license online and have it delivered through the mail. I can have prescription drugs delivered through the mail. But the entire country will go to hell if I vote through the mail. Haven't you heard?

Unless we implement 100% delivery service, people NEED to go to the store to survive. People do not NEED to vote in person when there is a better, safer way to do so.

1967. We didn't shut down the country.

And Covid 19 is still killing more than 1000 people a day.
Hey, let's just kill everyone! Sounds as if you approve.

You meant 1968 and that was the entire death toll for the entire year. Not in less than three months.

Apply for an absentee ballot.

I can't get my DL renewed online. I have to take an eye test. At your age, you should too

Tennessee feels differently. I actually got them renewed for 8 years just last year. I'll be voting in person right down the street from my house.

Sometimes the things I stand up for aren't "just about me".

I'm not saying it'll be easy to implement, nor am I saying it'll be foolproof. There would be a lot of work to be done to get a robust process up and running. I just feel that saying a process that has been largely unchanged for so long can't be improved at all is silly.

I think it would be less difficult than many are trying to make it sound. As I have mentioned, people can get prescription drugs sent through the mail. Court subpoenas are sent via mail. My drivers license was renewed through the mail.

States like Oregon have done mail in voting for many years now so a template for how to execute this exists. As for taking a matter of time, most certainly. The difficulty factor not so much.

We should reach a compromise. Vote in person with early voting for at least a month in every state. Automatic registration at 18 and at the polls for anyone who needs to register. If we are going to restrict voting in anyway, let's do it based on IQ.

You are simply making up pure lies - or you are unthinkingly repeating Trump lies. There is no other option after you made such an outrageous false claim.

https://www.washington.edu/news/2020/05/...-show-symptoms/

Seasonal Flu has a mortality rate of 0.1%.

CV-19 mortality rates vary around the globe - but even at a somewhat conservative 2% rate - that's TWENTY times more deadly than the flu. If you think that's 'about the same as' - I'd love to play poker with you or any gambling game that requires math and probability.

Voter fraud has been SO RAMPANT since the country was born that when Trump tried to look into it - he found NOTHING.

I know, I know, I know..... You are a Trump supporter and quite simply and amply demonstrated: #factsdontmatter.

While I would agree on the iq test, I'd like to know what you'd consider a minimum. We all know that would never happen anyway.

States like Oregon voted in a vote by mail initiative. They didn't send absentee ballots to everyone by fiat like Michigan.

For giggles, at least a 95 but would prefer maybe 110 or above. Would be good with 130 or above too, but there would be so few of us then that we would just become another minority ruling class like the elite rich.

And of course since 'Trump', we would have to have triple verification and certification on the testing and results. Else any idiot might claim to be a very stable genius.

Michigan didn't send out "absentee ballots to everyone".


Fact check: Trump falsely claims Michigan sent out absentee ballots and broke the law

https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/20/politics/fact-check-trump-michigan-nevada-ballots-voting/index.html

What they sent were applications for absentee ballots. You do know that absentee ballots are legal and it's legal to apply for them, right?

Reading and spreading Trump Tweets usually doesn't age well.

Correct.

Trump incorrectly claimed Michigan's Sec. of State mailed out 7.7 ballots and she called him out on it here.



Trump later deleted the original tweet and wrote 'absentee ballot applications'. She still proved his claim incorrect and kindly noted several other GOP states taking the same initiative.

No, I'm not making up lies. You are going on incomplete information. We do not know how many were infected and are asymptomatic. Many of the elderly that have died have underlying conditions. They didn't nessesarily die of the virus itself, but of other complications. A good case of the flu, bronchitis, or pneumonia would have done the same. There is no herd immunity. A second wave will be far less fatal, and a third would be an annoyance.

BTW, I used to play high stakes poker. I'd eat you for lunch.

I hadn't read that story yet. As a person has to ask for absentee ballots in most states, I'm sure there's still an illegality sending them by fiat.

So once again actual scientific evidence means nothing because it doesn't say what you want it to.

It's a great way to never lose an argument I guess. Make claims that are easily disproven and then dispute all the evidence because it doesn't fit in your story.

Nobody else actually believe that kind of BS but as long as it makes you feel better.....

98 is the average in the US. I'm not sure I'd want to deal with a country of ticked off people. It would remind me too much of school when I kept screwing up the bell curve.

So the virus is over, and everyone's been tested? The evidence is not complete. You should cheer up though. After the final tally, the mortality rate could 3%.

According to you, the reason it is done in Oregon is because people voted for it. You claim that's what makes it legal. Well here's what they did in Michigan



So Michigan voters did approve that any voter can use an absentee ballot with no excuse to stop them.

Then let's look at your assertion that sending out the application is illegal.



Yet Trump has never said a word about it. If you would actually read the article you will find that even the RNC chair has no problem with this.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/michigan-vote-by-mail-registered-voters-absentee-ballot-applications/

Erik, maybe you missed this, but nothing illegal was done. These were absentee ballot applications, not absentee ballots.

Nobody is happy about the mortality rate. Some of us are just sick of people trying to downplay the virus for their own self interest.

#factsdontmatter

Oh - and it doesn't matter how old I am and what conditions I have. It matters who I am around and my 'network' and my wife's and my kids ... and while we are all 'socially distancing' there is still risk especially with Kids.

Some people think individual freedoms include risking everyone you come in contact with. Go figure.

Funny. I never saw any facts about how many in how many months from pitt. And I meant 1967.

It's not the right comparison anyway. The correct comparison would be the Spanish flu. This was the start of global travel. It was also the start of quarenteen restrictions disappearing. That virus was new to most of the world, so there was no herd immunity. It killed around 5% of the global population.

So if the government decided we should all be locked in our homes, you'd be OK with that?

Sorry, but I'm smart enough to avoid crowds, wear a mask, and wash my hands often without being told to do it. If you need that type of help in your daily life, that's on you.

I don't need it but obviously you haven't been paying attention to how many people do. You act like everyone in our society is responsible. It doesn't work like that and since our society isn't even smart enough to reopen the country based on the CDC guidelines your argument has failed. There is no common sense nor patience involved. And all people do is make excuses for it.

No, my argument is the same it's always been. Protect yourself. The CDC guidelines are a joke. Most restaurants will go out of business with 25 to 50% occupancy. Most businesses too. Just like every other business, they've already figured out where their profit margin is, which is why they have the staff they have in the space they have. When the government sets those margins, the business will lose.

For example, the NFL has already estimated they will lose $5bil with no one in the stands. The question for them is if the can afford that or not. The question for you is if you go to a game or not. The question should not be for government to shut them down or not.

So, if I understand this correctly, you want OTHERS (grocery store workers) to put themselves at risk, so you aren't?

Honest question: How does that work? In Ohio, they need to take your photo. You have to pass a vision test in the bmv also. How does TN do that, or DO they?


Side note: I have a nephew that turned 16 just a few days after all bmv's were closed. Poor guy still can't get his license.

May 26th they open back up. Tell him to get in line early!

Grocery store workers, warehouse workers, delivery workers, customer service workers that can't work from home, mechanics that service delivery trucks, long haul truckers, etc.

In Colorado if you renew online they just reuse the current license picture. 65 and older can't renew online as a vision test is required.

Thanks. In Ohio, you have to pass a vision test every 4 years. License is only valid for 4 years, unless you are a minor. Get your license at 16, it's valid for 5 years - when you turn 21. Reason for that is to make it easier to card people. A minor's picture/license looks completely different.

No you CANT renew your drivers license online in OHIO look it up.

I'm fairly certain, in fact SURE, I never said you could.

I was asking how other states did it, what with a vision test, etc.

I never said that and I never implied that.

I was talking about not needing to vote in person - and Erik decided a good analogy or comparison was me and my grocery shopping habits. No ... you don't get to turn this around as if I am asking and expecting others to do something. I merely related my shopping experience.

I didn't turn it around. You explained your shopping. You expect others to be there to serve you, at their possible expense/peril.

Not at all.

I explained that... I never said I expected others to put themselves at risk. I never implied that I expect others to do that.

But thanks for trying.

In addition to which - this is a discussion about elections and what people do or do not need to expose themselves to in order to vote.

Trying to flip this onto what me or others do for shopping is .... not relevant.

Me telling you how I currently get groceries .... also not relveant.

Me telling you how I currently get groceries .... not telling you or anyone else what I expect of them to do on my behalf.

Any other deflections you and Erik want to throw out there? Any more claims how CV-19 is nearly the same thing as regular flu? Any more false propaganda about how wide spread voter fraud is?

From a purely theoretical and statistical perspective ... if "only" 50% of the voters were mandated to vote in person or not vote at all, and assuming they do actually vote. That's about 65 million people.

Even with everyone using PPE and taking great care, and assuming even the dim witted morons that still think this is a hoax also follow suit .... how many people are likely to contract CV-19 that otherwise wouldn't have?

3% - 2% - 1% ? 0.5%

The reality is that it will be IMPOSSIBLE not to create more spread. You can't force people into such concentrated numbers into such confined areas without there being some spread somewhere.

Being conservative - let's say the number is 0.25% .... 1/4 of 1% .... And we were already conservative by using/counting 50% of the voters. That's an additional 162,500 people with CV-19. Using another conservative mortality rate of 2% .... that'd be 3250 US citizens died - needlessly. To put that in perspective ... that would be more than the number of deaths than 911.

I'm sure someone can say far fewer will get infected as a result. Some could argue more will get infected ... and then we could talk about the multiplier effect of those that do get infected - how many are subsequently infected from those cases .... Bottom line is that it'll mean deaths.

Not a deflection at all, but I'm not surprised you still don't get it. I would say you're probably to be less exposed voting than grocery shopping. You will definitely touch less items. You libs are pushing it as one of those most dangerous things you can do.

You could use the recent Wisconsin primaries as an example. Over 400000 people, with 67 contracting the virus later. Of those 67, none of them could confirm that they didn't get the virus elsewhere. That adds up .0167%.

Sorry ARCH I was answering the pit guy

You just provide your current information online and they use your old picture. I'm not even sure if you can renew it online if your address has changed. You may have to go in and confirm your new address if that is the case.

All of my information was the same and they used my current drivers license picture and sent me a new drivers license good for eight years.

https://apps.tn.gov/tndlr/kiosk/

Damn - I thought we were in short supply of testing. Apparently WI tested 400,000 ?

I'd stake a small fortune that more than 67 people contracted the virus through those primaries. But we can't prove it because ... there is not enough testing. smh.

A self fulfilling prophecy: Don't test and then show how few people have CV-19 .... sounds like Trump in February/March.

Another reading deficiency, huh? Out of the 416000 people that voted in person, only 67 of those wound up with the virus. Do yourself a favor and go read. If you'd stake a small fortune against that, I really want to play you poker. You seem like an easy mark.

Man I have met obtuse people but you really do take the crown.

My reading is fine.

Your standard response to ignore my put down to your "debate" is to say I don't understand. Clearly it is YOU that can't debate or can't understand. Enough already.

"Out of the 416000 people that voted in person, only 67 of those wound up with the virus."

And as I pointed out .... there is not enough testing to know who has or does not have the virus from those votes. THERE IS NOT ENOUGH TESTING.

Try to come up with a better "you don't understand" response which is what you keep using when I crush you argument.

And - just be really stupid and pretend that only 67 people got CV-19 out of the 400,000 that voted.

Based on 2% mortality - that means someone died who didn't need to. Just so they could vote. And it doesn't matter if CV-19 is more or less dangerous than crossing the road, juggling knives or driving a car .... it's somebody whose death (and likely more than 1) that is/was needless .... because mass voter fraud is a Alt Right MYTH. Thanks

Some one who died didn't need to? I'd like to see you prove that one. Just a quick question for you. If someone has a heart condition, finds out they have the virus, and has a sudden heart attack on hearing the news, did the virus kill them? You act like you can predict death.

BTW, the numbers I used were from a reuters article. The last I checked, they weren't a republican news organization.

Are you ever going to drive again? We know that's not 100% safe.

Wow. Grocery shopping, heart conditions, driving, fortune telling?

Anything and everything but the subject.

Pffft. Weak. I guess you know you lost the 'debate' and the deflections are just going to keep coming. Next you'll be asking if a tree falls in the wood questions!

I forgot ... Reuters wrote the article huh? Magic. Are they now testing people too? Did they test all 400,000 voters? I guess that must be your point right? Because I made no reference to who wrote the article, I mentioned a lack of testing and a lack of accurate data.

Testing, testing, testing. I don't know whether I should mock you, laugh at you, or just feel sorry for you. I figure that you're one of those people that scream "science" at others, without understanding the science yourself.

These tests are basically useless for everyone except the researchers who will write reports when the pandemic is over. This mostly has to do with the 3 week average incubation of the virus.

There are two types of tests that are used. The nucleid acid amplification test (swab), and the antibody test (blood).

If a person is infected, but is asymptomatic, the swab test is more likely to return a false negative. The best time to collect this sample is right before the onset of symptoms. It is also a difficult sample to collect, as it's best to get it from the soft palete at the back of the nose. If the sample is collected incorrectly, or too early before the onset of symptoms, or too long after symptoms are waning, you'll get a false negative.

The blood test also tends to throw false negatives. Once again, if a person is asymptomatic or has a mild infection, they will not have enough detectable antibodies. The antibodies also fade over time. As the antibodies fade over time, it's also possible to be reinfected. This also renders the testing useless to the general public.

I would once again suggest more reading and research on your part. You appear to have the simple newsmans view of testing on this virus.

Oh look, can't debate the point so he comes up with a straw man argument about nothing previously on the discussion. You forgot to throw in something about reading skills ... as well as didn't address another of my points. The list of alternative discussions and deflections is getting wayyyyyy long.

You have yet to make a point. Just for you:

If a tree fell in the forest and landed on mgh, would anyone care?

I live in sc part of the year ... this primary season they found sc ballots in virginia ... the last 3 elections there;s been 3 recounts due to ‘misplaced” ballots and there’s also been lost ballots ...

Also ask the menZa how broward county is doing with there ballots ... they can’t even keep track of there machine ballots, how the hell they gonna handle all the mail in ones now ... *L* ... then add to it that women is one corrupt government official ...

I mean what could go wrong ... the us postal service known for there great service ... u can count on the us post office to deliver your letter or package more times than not ... what could possibly go wrong ..

Yep a GOP governor In SC ..no doubt he’s behind all the voter fraud you have in SC. Mail in votes will bypass your GOP gerrymandering. We understand why GOPers don’t want that. Pfft the trump era.

You've done the same thing throughout the thread - but lets just look at the most recent topic:


1. You stated that only 67 people contracted the virus from 400,000 voters .... after I said that number was faulty because there was not enough testing, you told me I couldn't read... without addressing a single point.

2. I explained patiently that the claim that only 67 people contracted CV-19 was faulty because there is a lack of testing. Your response was a ramble/deflection about people dying of a heart attack after learning they had caught CV-19. You then told me the source of the article you posted as if that somehow meant that the 400,000 had all been tested or something.... didn't address a single point.

3. You then explained to me about how the testing is done. In great detail. Insulted me some more and repeated that I needed to or can't read...... didn't address my point.

4. Claimed it was me that didn't make a point and insulted me again! ...... didn't address a single point.

It's all there in black and white and is fact, everyone and anyone can see it and read it.

Thanks

One thing he certainly can't address. First, we know that many who get the virus are asymptomatic. So they were never tested to begin with. So there's no way the total cases of 67 is correct. 67 are only the cases they knew about.

Here's the real question, of even the known 67 cases, how many people were infected from those 67 people? I guess according to Eric they wouldn't count in the number of cases caused from the election. And anyone with a brain knows that number would be very high.

That's what cracks me up about all these "Freedom. Liberty!", yelling people. If they wish to risk their health alone, more power to them. But they're not just risking their own personal health. They're choosing to risk the health of everyone they come in contact with and pretend those people shouldn't have any say in it.

This is just becoming more humorous as it keeps going. Appearantly you think I just pull numbers out of the thin air.

The primaries in Wisconsin was watched and monitored by the cdc, nih, and other health agencies in the state. Of those voters, only 67 reported contracting the virus. Of those reporting, none of them can confirm that they contacted it from the polls. In other words, the polls weren't their only trip into public.

You seem to think that if these people were not tested before and daily afterwards, then these numbers cannot be correct. I relayed findings from the cdc, nih, and other health agencies that testing is no where near accurate or effective, mostly due to the 3 week average incubation period of thus virus. As the testing is not accurate, then it's useless for the premise in which you want it applied.

The majority of people that have died from the virus are elderly or have underlying medical problems. An 80 year old black man with heart problems, copd, and high blood pressure is more likely to die than a 20 year old white woman who's healthy. This is more due to one more stressor on this person's health than the virus itself. The virus also seems to be more troublesome to men and blacks. All these factors make testing useless to anyone other than researchers and those with an active case. Just the fact that NYC was putting seniors with active cases into nursing homes has skewed the numbers.

Testing to see who had the virus is useless. The antibodies fade over time. By the time the government tested everyone, most are going to give off false negatives.

The only point I see that you've made so far is that you're scared to go vote in person, so the rest of us shouldn't be able to vote in person either. You then try to point out that the rest of the populace is too stupid to vote without contaminating everyone else. This is when I asked you if you've been to the grocery store. Voting in public won't be much different then that. People will stand in line, wear masks and gloves or not, social distance or not, and will touch less things than a grocery store. If you can't see the comparison, that's on you being unable to envsision it.

A suddenly enacted vote by mail system will be rife with inaccuracies, fraud, and incompetence. It also should not be done by fiat. You already have a mechanism where you can apply for an absentee ballot. I don't need one, as I already know how to take care of myself.

Actually, anyone with a brain already knows those numbers were accurate. If the infection rate was higher, the Democrats would be using it as exhibit #1 to push their vote by mail initiative to the entire nation. As the numbers weren't higher, it didn't even get an honerable mention in the Democrat news oganization. Also, asymptomatic people test negative.

Isn't it amazing how people that want to accuse the rest of us of ignoring science will completely ignore science when it doesn't match their preconceived opinions?

So you are giving the number of how many people reported infections from voting day but wish to ignore any cases that resulted from those 67 spreading it further and claim others are ignoring something?

You do realize what the numbers are reporting and what they aren't reporting, right? It states plainly that they report cases that were reported from voting. NOWHERE does it state that any trace testing was done to see how many infections were spread by those 67 people.

You're just throwing BS now to see if it will stick to the wall.

No, I'm reporting the fact that out of 416000 people, only 67 reported contracting the virus. Of those 67, none of them could accurately state that they got it from the polls. In other words, they weren't only at the polls.

You, on the other hand, have stated conjecture that they infected others, and implied it could be a great deal more.

I have reported facts. You have reported your imagination.

\

Except of course your "fact" is most definitely not a fact. We don't have enough data to know. Period. We can't POSSIBLY verify how many people contracted CV-19 out of the 400,000 people who voted unless we test all of them before and after - and we have an accurate test. One more case of #factsdontmatter

As for your other deflective bullcrap post in response to my last post. More deflection, more bullcrap, not addressing any point I made.

You do comprehend how viruses spread, right? People get around other people which causes them to get the virus. Those people who go around other people who get the virus. And so on, and so on and so on.

If it didn't spread that way, how could anyone have gotten the virus while voting?

That's not conjecture.

Would you like some links to read up about it? Maybe that would help you.

I guarantee you I am much more versed in virus morphology than you. I just happen to be married to a former biologist and virologist who worked for the feds. She invented the protocols to mitigate hoof and mouth that was ravaging the UK and other parts of Europe in the 90s. She's worked on mad cow, traced lead in Mexican children, traced the effects of pcbs in whale blubber, etc, etc.

I never said those 67 people got the virus from voting. I said quite clearly, that 67 out of 416000 contracted the virus after voting, and none of them were able to directly attribute their infection to being at the polls. Therefore, going to vote is no more dangerous than going to the grocery, work for a couple hours, or the hardware store. It's the same amount of possible exposure.

According to my wife, the virologist, going to a drive in testing facility is more dangerous than going to the local store or voting in person.

Did she explain why?
Because I find that statement very intriguing.

Because you're coming into contact with a person who is more likely to have had contact with an infected person. All it would take for you to get infected is a simple lapse in protocol, or even a breeze blowing the virus from their uniform on to you. Well people, with the exception of mgh and probably pitt, aren't going to go get tested. Sick people will.

Dream on. Pfft trump syndrome.

Portland had a post in the Sicario thread. It confirms what I've been saying. Don't forget to be afraid to vote or buy bread.

https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2020/05/coronavirus-covid19-exposure-risk-catching-virus-germs

No need for me to be afraid. I vote by mail. Like we all should have the option of doing.

In all states there's absentee ballots. I don't want my state forcing a rushed mail in fiasco.

Forced and Rushed? LOL. Majority rules snoozers loose.

J\C
Just remember this.. If the libs here and everywhere are pushing for something its to their sickening agenda of hate for our America ,Religion the President and their love for illegal criminals, open borders etc. Maybe the people who find a way for FREE stuff should find a way to vote legally, after all its free to vote.

Your peeps couldn’t build a website in two years ... TWO YEARS ...

Yet u think we can somehow pull off a mail in voting system and have it fully functional in less than 1/2 a year ... BRILLIANT!!

This would be fraught with fraud and a joke regardless of who won ...

I guess to you and yours the bouncing ball just don’t matter ...

WTF dude ... u guys couldn’t even do a caucus this year ... how u think pulling off a national mail in election is in the realm of possibility is beyond realistic ...

And to top it off we have to rely on the POST OFFICE ... ...

And when they can't cheat their way to a win, they'll start screaming "russia" again.

Serious question ... I thought there was already systems designed and in place. This wouldn't be starting from nothing and creating something ... this would simply be adopting what's worked before elsewhere.

As for who wins and what the cry will be ... Well Trump is already positioning himself to cry foul about absentee voting etc ... claiming states have already done things illegally (which they have not) ... so we know what Trump will say.

If Trump wins - it will be because Biden is more of an inept fool than Trump is an inept incompetent Bully .... it could easily happen. I'd say it's literally 50/50 right now.

How does a russian bot register an account at DT?

I guess compiling a mailing list from voter registrations and sending out mail is to complicated for you to grasp. Yet Trump can figure it out to send out his post stimulus letters claiming the money came from him.

thanks

Most states still have 1000s of dead people on their voter rolls. Maybe that should be cleaned up first, seeing as dead people tend to vote democat.

Prove that.

He can't - it's a giant Alt Right myth that has the Trump base frothing at the mouth like a frenzied mob. It's why they stop thinking... all that emotion and hate and vitriol coursing through the veins, and all about a made up lie that's been proven to by false by Trump himself. #factsdontmatter

Do you really think I spend all day here? While it's hard to find who they vote for, it's easy to find dems registering dead voters.

https://www.wtvr.com/2017/06/26/andrew-spieles-guilty-plea?_amp=true
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.thecalifornian.com/amp/3672406002
https://www.ire.org/resource-center/stories/?q=dead%20voters
https://www.richmond.com/news/virginia/j...58c186cd57.html
https://930amtheanswer.com/content/all/t...-people-to-vote

I would have to assume dems register dead people to have them vote democrat.

Democratic clerk charged with altering nearly 200 midterm elections ballots


By Victor Morton - The Washington Times
Tuesday, September 24, 2019

A Democratic city clerk in Michigan who had been honored by the state party for her work was charged this week with multiple felonies related to charges of altering absentee ballots.

Sherikia Hawkins was arraigned Monday in Southfield, Michigan, on six counts related to the 2018 election including forging public documents and misconduct in office and was released on $15,000 bond, according to National Review Online.

“The alleged misconduct was discovered after the Oakland County Clerk’s Office noticed that 193 voter files had been changed to reflect that the voters failed to include a valid signature or return date, when all of the implicated voters had in fact included both items. The county clerk’s office later discovered the original voter files in the trash at the election-division office,” National Review wrote.

https://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2019/...qxMGClZ577Yj7E4

You posted 5 links. 1 didn't work, 2 were the same story, and 1 was about a Republican registering his dead dad and his dogs because he was trying to prove his own conspiracy theory, and was caught, as was the JMU student in the story posted twice.

Where in the article does it say, Richard Davis is a Republican? All the links work for me.

Yup, I posted 5 links I found on the first page of my Google search, Democrats register dead to vote. I replaced "democrats" with "republicans" and gave up after 5 pages, as there were no entries. Did you expect me to post 100s or 1000s to prove a point? I expect to get paid for that type of research, and I know most of you can't afford me.

LOL....good stuff Eric.

Forget it, just more loud mouth blabber from the loud mouth left.


Just hand them a hankie to wipe off the slobber.

NONE of that proved anything you said. You are just deflecting. You have time to make the statements of BS as if they are fact, yet you don't have the time or should be paid to prove your allegations... We call that trolling on the internet.

Here's an idea, keep the 8chan talk for your visits breitbart and the chans... When you come here, at least try to come with actual facts to back up your bogus arguments.

I'm not saying there has never been a dead voter on the roles or some BS going on with registrations. I'm saying this is a non issue. Voter fraud has been looked at and found to be insignificant EVEN by the right. Spreading fiction and the delusions of Trump does not change that no matter how hard you try.

Don't bother replying, you have zero credibility here with me.

Peen, there weren't enough tissues, toilet paper, or paper towels to mop up those tears before the pandemic. As for the drool, that's just what they do.

Oh no! I have zero credibility with a lib. Whatever will I do?

Btw, what the hell is 8chan?

It's a lot like a discussion that gets switched to grocery shopping .... or the source of a news story .... or how a test is administered instead of whether people were tested ....

It's the same old. Save your typing.

"We don't like what you have to say, and won't believe you no matter what.", typical lib.

I also find it interesting that I get accused of going to a conspiracy site. Does anyone else find it interesting that Republicans have a conspiracy site, but dems have cnn, msnbc, abc, nbc, cbs, etc?

When you start responding to a discussion without trying to change the subject - or when you stop with the strawman arguments - when you stop posting Bullcrap and then trying to back it up with essentially nothing. . . . then you can join the adults in the room in a conversation. Till then you can stick to name calling, deflection and the Alt Right propaganda that you are so good at spreading

And if you are wondering - the two best examples of flat out "#factsdontmatter" .... 1. claiming as factual and absolute that only 67 people contracted CV-19 after WI primaries. (then trying to change the subject into how testing is done) 2. Claiming "most dead people vote democrat" ... which is just part of that whole "mass voter fraud by the commies" which is a Alt Right lie which has been PROVEN to be a false narrative by Trump's own administration.

This is why I question your reading comprehension. I said, 67 people of the 416000 that voted in person at the wisconsin primaries contracted the virus, but are unable to confirm where they might have contracted the virus. This was reported by many reputable news sources, and even several disreputable ones, like cnn. I know you and the other libs here want to read between those lines, conjecture who else might have contracted the virus during that time, or just not believe it because it doesn't fit your preconceived notions, or the lies your beloved politicians tell you. It's still a reported fact.

You do realize that the libs here get a woody every time that there are infected or dying from covid every time the economy gets hit every time job losses mount up so the can use the lib lies against Trump but all of a sudden there worried about the voters safety when it comes to their advantage on rigging elections in which mail in voting would give them the advantage cause it aint beyond them to cheat.

You are twisting in the wind again. I said that the report is faulty because we don't have enough data. That the report - regardless of origin or how often repeated - is faulty because we don't have enough testing. . . . . You then responded about how testing is done. So you deflected and didn't answer my point.

Now you are spinning once again. What is fact is that the number has been reported .... what is not fact is that the number is correct. Thanks for playing.

Go join Riley there - his level of conversation fits you to a tee.

You are quick to declare yourself victorious. I didn't tell you how testing was done. I told you why testing is ineffective. I guess we're back to that reading problem again.

From what you are saying, I get the feeling that you want everyone tested every day. This is impractical, if not impossible. That would mean 327 mil tests per day, 2.289 bil tests per week, and 9.810 bil tests per month.

Well people aren't going to get tested unless they're sick or had significant exposure to someone who is sick. Even then, if that test is not perfectly in the incubation period, you get a negative.

Isn't this your opinion?

Can you show a single example of those people who died, but had not yet been removed from the voter roles ever casting a vote?

Because that's what actually happened. Democrats didn't "register dead people to vote". They had simply not yet cleared them from the voter roles.

It seems to me a real possibility. No, dead people don't vote. However, if they were registered prior to voting, and hadn't been cleared off the roll, a ballot would be mailed. It could easily be filled out by a family member, or new tenant, and sent in, not?

No, it's not opinion.

1. Statistically it is virtually impossible the number is correct.

2. Statistically for it to be a *FACT* then it would need to be proven to be so ... not assumed that the number might be right.

So in answer to me spelling out that there is a lack of testing to know how accurate the '67' is .... you wrote this:

These tests are basically useless for everyone except the researchers who will write reports when the pandemic is over. This mostly has to do with the 3 week average incubation of the virus.

There are two types of tests that are used. The nucleid acid amplification test (swab), and the antibody test (blood).

If a person is infected, but is asymptomatic, the swab test is more likely to return a false negative. The best time to collect this sample is right before the onset of symptoms. It is also a difficult sample to collect, as it's best to get it from the soft palete at the back of the nose. If the sample is collected incorrectly, or too early before the onset of symptoms, or too long after symptoms are waning, you'll get a false negative.

The blood test also tends to throw false negatives. Once again, if a person is asymptomatic or has a mild infection, they will not have enough detectable antibodies. The antibodies also fade over time. As the antibodies fade over time, it's also possible to be reinfected. This also renders the testing useless to the general public.

And while I wrote a quick reply I referenced this as testing procedure -- and yes, you could more accurately surmise this as being about why testing data is not 100% accurate .... but either way it DOES NOT address my point. Thanks for playing. It's a STRAW MAN ARGUMENT THAT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH MY POINT.

And no - I don't think every US citizen should go get tested. Something I never said or implied. Neither did I suggest the testing is 100% accurate. Neither did I suggest that the timing of the testing is unimportant.

Yes ... in theory it could. That would be voter fraud.

Based on historical evidence and Trump's own investigative work ... widespread Voter Fraud is NOT a thing. So while in theory something might be possible - doesn't make it a thing. It'd be like me suggesting that it's possible for a mass murderer to go buy guns and ammo right before he goes on a killing spree.... it's possible, yes. Does that mean we need to stop guns and ammo sales?

I certainly won't deny it is possible. Yet I've never seen a case reported where it has happened. You do know that Trump was so concentrated with proving voter fraud that he formed a commission on it after he was elected right?

They disbanded after having found nothing. Like I said, it's certainly a possibility. Yet one would think if it were going to happen we would see some evidence that it has happened.

Some seem to think mimicking Trump is a positive things. No facts, all rhetoric means they think they win some kind of prize. Most Americans realize Trump is an idiot. And they try their best to sound just like him.

No a ballot wouldn’t be mailed, Coroners and funeral homes are required to report deaths to the IRS and county registrars within 24 hrs. Your opinions don’t count as fact.

At least two of those stories I posted were democrats registering dead people to vote. As for the voter rolls not being cleared:

A new report by the Pew Center on the States finds that more than 1.8 million dead people are currently registered to vote. And 24 million registrations are either invalid or inaccurate.
https://www.npr.org/2012/02/14/146827471/study-1-8-million-dead-people-still-registered-to-vote

Looks to me that someone isn't doing their job.

Sounds sinister ... something to fear-monger with and whip up the base with for sure. "New" is a bit misleading for a 2012 article from NPR ... but still.

Virtually no evidence that any of the 1.8 million dead who are registered to vote -- or the 24 million invalid registrations have lead to ANY widespread voter fraud over the last 8 years ... but it makes a snappy headline!

You're talking to a guy who still believes, after being given ample evidence to the contrary, that muslims have "no-go" zones in the UK.

Don't waste your time.

Man do u have a lot to learn about how this place works ....

OCD/888/Pit all live on one way streets where the left can do no wrong and everything they say is true ... understanding the rules will save u a lot of head scratching and HUH ...

Oh please -- let me know how my explanation and response is incorrect.

Dude ... your wife’s an expert but her truth don’t matter cause it don’t fit there agenda ... bonefish’s sister on the other hand is also an expert but she is 100% believable cause it fits with there beliefs ...

U have no excuse for your naivety like rush does ... u been around here long enough ... *L* ..

You live on a street where you support a man who supports sexual assault, brags about walking in to see underage beauty pageant models naked, and gave hush money payments to a porn star.

You have no room to talk.

Bro... smh

Troglodytes live in caves.

And don't you support a guy that has credibly been accused of sexual assault, refered to black kids as cockroaches, has made many public pervert actions, and helped segregationist senators in the past. Before that, you supported a woman who helped her husband cover up rape, and sexual assault, while helping destroy those women publicly.

Please provide a sourced example from this very website where I say I support Biden or Hillary.

If you find such a post where I say Biden or Hillary were my people, I’ll leave Dawgtalkers forever.

If you fail, you leave Dawgtalkers forever.

Do we have a deal?

If you're going to try and come at me, make sure you don't miss the next time.

You proclaiming something you don’t know as true is a belief dude. How do you know his wife is an expert? Have you seen her credentials? What makes her an expert?

How do you know you even exist? You might just be a figment of my imagination.

My wife is a virologist that worked for the government. I have no reason to lie about her credentials. Believe what I tell you or not. Are you an expert in anything other than liberal theology?

No. I'll just take the lazy way out and tell you I'm not going to search through 100s of posts.

With that being said, who do you plan on voting for? I'm pretty sure it isn't Trump.

Another statement made as fact and then not backed up Sweet !

Actually, I asked him a question. I even posed, "and dont you support". I'll give you a break on this one due to your reading comprehension problem.

Can’t speak for others but I’d never vote for Joe in the primaries. Never. But he’ll get my ‘anything but trump’ vote come November. Joe is not my guy. This doesn’t matter to me at this point. The thought of another 4 years with trump at the helm is sickening.

And isn't that the sad truth, that we as voters don't get to vote for qualified candidates, but are are reduced to voting AGAINST the candidate we dislike the most.

Yeah So sad. But It’s always been that way. If you vote for trump you ain’t human.

3rd party... 3rd party votes have been trending up in recent years, though I expect this election to not follow that trend. I think quite a few Americans are simply going to vote against the incumbent.

That's one hell of a way to ask a question

But then when you invent your own questions to answer and continually come up with a strawman to argue against ... it surprises me not. Carry on.

The best part ... IF Trump came out tomorrow and said he was for voting by mail everyone of them would all of a sudden think it was the dumbest idea ever ... how sad is that cause even they know its true ...

Wrong. Again.

Trump is wrong and even now Twitter is showing his Tweets as having false information.

Basically, every reason he gives for now wanting Mail In voting is a lie.. The man is out of his freaking mind.

SO, why does he really oppose mail voting?

Just another lie from your side. But of course we have no fear he would do the right thing to actually protect the health of Americans.

I disagree.
I'd be one of the first to welcome him aboard the common sense train.

I'm seriously looking at absentee for the very first time.
I seriously suggest that you consider the same.
Ain't tryna lose no fellow Browns fans.

Lol wrong. trump may get away with murder on Broadway. But no way would his supporters be as happy as the dems if he flipped on this issue.

Tell these people to get off their behinds and go stand in line!

My only regret is I have but one life to risk to vote for my Trump.

He’s got y’all sticking up for China And thinking they handled this virus in an acceptable manner .... he also turned one of the most ruthless terrorists in the world in al bagdaddy into a “revered spiritual leader” in your eyes ... he also had u mourning the death of the general from Iran that had taken way to many American lives and was plotting to take more when we got him ...

Based off that small sample list I feel I’m on extremely solid footing ...

Thank the good lord u don’t want me dead ... *L* ... Thanks for that ..

I agree with the concept ... i just see no way how we can pull it off w/o a ton of fraud ... there’s simply not enough time to do it securely ....

Voting fraud connected mail in voting is rampant and it has been for years ... and it runs both ways ... i claim no moral superior ground on this or many other subjects ... most actually ...

Your a smart man Clem ... I don’t understand why u have faith that the government can pull this off securely in such a short amount of time .... there’s not a snowballs chance in heck Mr. Clem ...

Thats why i don’t like it ...

November's a long way off ... lets hope we have made some good progress on understanding this thing and this way one side won’t be screaming #fakeelection when its over ..

You mean like when Trump shut down travel from china, and all the libs called him racist. I think it was two months after that Biden claimed he would have shut off travel to China earlier.

Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel

Three tubs of ballots discovered in mail processing center after polls closed in Wisconsin


Patrick Marley, Milwaukee Journal Sentinel


4/8/2020



MADISON - Three tubs of ballots for Oshkosh and Appleton have been discovered at a mail processing center in Milwaukee, according to the Wisconsin Elections Commission and a state senator.

Jeff Lahodik takes care of absentee ballots in Burlington. © Zhihan Huang / Milwaukee Journal Sentinel Jeff Lahodik takes care of absentee ballots in Burlington.

The discovery emerges as would-be voters across the state express a host of frustrations about absentee ballots they tried to avoid going to the polls amid the coronavirus pandemic. Many have said ballots they requested long ago did not arrive by Tuesday, the deadline for getting their ballots postmarked.

"I learned today that the (state Elections Commission) received a call from a postal service worker informing them 3 large tubs of absentee ballots from Oshkosh and Appleton, were just located," Republican Sen. Dan Feyen of Fond du Lac said on Twitter.


Meagan Wolfe, the administrator of the Elections Commission, said she is looking into the situation. She said she has not determined whether the ballots had been on their way to voters or already filled out and on their way back to clerks.

"We don’t have answers on that at this point," Wolfe said during an online media briefing.

Feyen wants the commission to go to court to give the voters a chance to have the ballots counted, according to his office.

Getting such a ruling will be exceedingly difficult because the U.S. Supreme Court in a 5-4 decision Monday ruled absentee ballots must be in the hands of clerks by election day or postmarked by then to be counted.

Republicans sought that decision by the Supreme Court and Feyen this week called it correct. But he also said he believed the situation in his area was unique and those voters should be given accommodations that others aren't getting.

At issue is voters who didn't receive absentee ballots through no fault of their own. Many have registered such complaints, not just those in Appleton and Oshkosh.

Voters who did not receive their absentee ballots had the option of voting in person Tuesday — an act some voters were reluctant to take because of the global pandemic.

No details have been made available about how many voters who didn't get absentee ballots ended up voting in person instead.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/...Cyrhr_e9F3lZkNQ

Good thing fraud doesn't happen.

It’s ok for trump and his press secretary to vote by mail, but it’s not for all of us. The elite right strikes again!