Economic Fallout of Covid-19 Response

Looks like we're headed for a depression and our government is doing nothing to stop it.

Stupid clueless trump ... i sure wish we had one of those sharp economic minds like Joe or Bernie or even AOC .... we’d be in so much better shape ...

...

Predictable that the people demanding we not go back to work start bitching about recession.

There are two obvious solutions to this problem.
People will have to summon the courage to crawl out of their bunkers and go back to work.
Or,the Gov't can just print up trillions of dollars and give everyone a million or so.
The US has traveled a long way.In less than 50 years we have gone from "Ask not what your country can do for you" to "Free,free,free I want everything for free."

Originally Posted By: BCbrownie

There are two obvious solutions to this problem.
People will have to summon the courage to crawl out of their bunkers and go back to work.
Or,the Gov't can just print up trillions of dollars and give everyone a million or so.
The US has traveled a long way.In less than 50 years we have gone from "Ask not what your country can do for you" to "Free,free,free I want everything for free."

Heck, AOC wants everyone to boycott work when they are told to go back to work. Simply stupid and amazing!

"Oh noes, we can't restart the economy because VIRUS. ::ignores Sweden::"

"Damn you, Trump, you made us haz depression!"

Damned if you do, damned if you don't.
I don't even like Trump, but feel like I have to defend the hypocrisy.

Well when the whining stops from the right and people realize that just trying to start it all up again still leaves them screwed what are we going to do? Y'all going to live off the markets? Y'all got a billion tucked away for your rainy day?

We are already hearing how many businesses will simply not be able to make it. 26 million lost jobs are not all coming back because we rush back to work. What's coming back is another round of infections.

So you can attack the messenger, because I had the gaul to start a thread about the economic fallout, or we can start talking about the what needs to be done to lessen the pain and mitigate disaster #2.

And Purp, you can't defend stupid. Trump is just plain stupid. Unless you think we could inject disinfectant in COVID-19 patients to clear them right up... This is not the person we want leading the economy through worst of times.

I'm not defending stupid. I'm attacking the stupid.
Blaming the government for not stopping a depression while flipping out if they attempt to get people out of their houses they can get the economy going again is absolutely ignorant.

Furthermore, blaming a single government when the entire freaking global economy is in the crapper because of this demonstrates a complete and total lack of understanding at the most basic level.

The entire world hinges on our government or the dollar. So that makes our moves even more important. Obama understood this.

As for getting 'people out of their houses', well that's one thing. But getting people to go out and get 'infected with a deadly virus' because you want them to work is another. I'm happy I work from home and pity the poor people that have to go back to their cubicles and factory lines. They deserve a government that at least attempts to keep them safe and doesn't just lose it's crap because the market dips sharply. Nothing about going back to work right now is safe for those this thing kills so easily and anyone who acts like that is some light decision is delusional. That's the epitome of callous and stupid.

You are not going to improve this situation with another round of mass casualties. PERIOD.

I wonder what othe governments across the world are doing to support their citizens? I wonder if they gave over 150 billion to corporations in tax breaks so executives could get their yearly million dollar bonus?

Let's take a look.

Quote:

Australia

The Australian government will spend 320 billion Australian dollars, or 16.4% of GDP, in response to COVID-19, including $130 billion in wage subsidies. The plan includes expanded eligibility for the JobSeeker Payment, which pays $550 per fortnight, and the JobKeeper Payment, which pays $1,500 per fortnight for up to six months for those who would otherwise have to be let go. They are also offering $20,000-$100,000 to small and medium-sized businesses and not-for-profits. More information can be found on the Treasury website.

Without any additional funding, the Australia Council for the Arts has redirected $5m from available fund to provide immediate relief to Australian artists, art workers, and art organisations. Individual states are also offering additional support. More information is available on the website of the Australia Council for the Arts.

Canada

On 28 March, Canada raised its economic stimulus spending to 202 billion Canadian dollars. This includes a Temporary Wage Subsidy for Employers, Employment Insurance for employees, and the Canada Emergency Response Benefit (CERB) for self-employed people, which could include artists and cultural workers whose income has been disrupted. The CER is a payment of $2,000 per month for up to four months.

To help arts organisations survive while their doors are closed, the Canada Council for the Arts will be making advance payments totalling $60 million—equivalent to 35% of their annual grants—to their 1,100 core-funded organisations.

More information on resources available to art and culture workers, including the Temporary Wage Subsidy, Employment Insurance and the CERB, is available on the website of the Canada Council for the Arts.

Hong Kong

In late February the Hong Kong government announced its Anti-epidemic Fund, 120 billion Hong Kong dollars worth of measures to support the economy, including a cash payout of $10,000 to residents age 18 and above, and low-interest loans with government guarantees for small businesses. A second round of measures to support businesses and residents impacted by the COVID-19 outbreak will be announced shortly, according to chief secretary for administration Matthew Cheung Kin-chung. More information on these benefits can be found on Hong Kong's coronavirus response website.

Also included in the Anti-epidemic Fund is $150 million to support the arts sector, of which $50 million was allocated to the Hong Kong Arts Development Council to strengthen its Support Scheme for Arts & Cultural Sector. The HKADC expects the scheme to benefit more than 630 organisations and projects with up to $130,000 and around 4,600 arts practitioners with up to $7,500. More information is available on the HKADC website.

New Zealand

New Zealand announced a stimulus package of $12.1 billion New Zealand dollars, or 4% of GDP on 17 March, adding an additional $4 billion to the package on 23 March. Wage subsidies will allow employers to draw $586 per week per full time staff member and $350 per week for part time workers to offset a 30% or greater drop in revenue from January to June 2020. The self-employed, sole traders and contractors are also eligible for the wage subsidy. More information is available on the Work and Income website.

Government arts agency Creative New Zealand's Emergency Response Package will provide $16 million to support the arts community, with funding available from 14 April. Funding includes: Arts Continuity Grants (up to $50,000) to support the creation of new work or the reframing of an existing project; Emergency Relief Grants (up to $10,000) for artists experiencing devastating loss of income and opportunity and an uncertain future; and unspecified sums for arts organisations. A second phase of funding providing support beyond June will be discussed in April. More information is available on the website of Creative New Zealand.

United Kingdom

The British government's total economic relief package to date is £330 billion, or 15% of GDP. It has promised to pay 80% of the wages of furloughed workers and 80% of the income of self-employed people for three months, up to £2,500 per month. It has also introduced cash grants up to £25,000 for small businesses. More information is available on gov.uk.

Arts Council England has released plans for a £160 million emergency response package that will give £20m to artists, creatives and freelancers, with grants of up to £2,500 each, and offers £50m to organisations outside its national portfolio, with a further £90m to support National Portfolio Organisations such as the Barbican Centre and the Whitechapel Gallery. More information is available on the website of Arts Council England.

A new Culture in Quarantine Fund launched by BBC Arts with Arts Council England is also offering grants of £3,000-8,000 for projects that 'could have been made at no other time'.

Link

Wow, we did quite terrible for our citizens considering what some other nations are doing.

Gotta love that corporate welfare, eh? I've been told it's the American way!

Boo-hoo
Nobody would have "attacked" the messenger,until said messenger decided to editorialize with this
"Looks like we're headed for a depression and our government is doing nothing to stop it."
The hypocrisy in that statement borders on dishonesty.

What's being done to stop it? Spell it out. OR shut up.

Does enticing neo nazis to protest count? Or screaming we have to get the economy going, does that count? Why even have the shut down if you are just going to order people to be exposed to what you shut them down to protect them from? Money over people is the hypocrisy, GOPers just don't want to accept it. They could give a damn about the lives that will be lost.

None of that stuff is preventing a recession. Businesses not doing business is causing the recession. Printing money to hand out to people is NOT a solution. It's a band-aid and not one that can be used repeatedly, nor without repercussions.

There is ONE way to prevent a recession and it is to get everyone's economies going again. That's it. Nothing else will do it. You can write all the checks you want, but that just delays things and those checks have to be able to be cashed and still be worth something.

time to invade some whack african country for its resources. war always seem to spur economic growth for whatever sick and twisted reason.

or we can make it interesting and take over Brazil. atleast we'll be entertained on quarantine.

Your Sweden idea won't help, either. It's obvious from various sources that social distancing saves lives. I'm not in favor of sacrificing anyone, period.

We will be in a recession regardless of what happens from here on out. There's no avoiding it. Governments should help keep their citizens healthy. Sending a bunch of sacrificial lambs in order to make the 1% happy is no way to go.

Why can't we do what these other nations are doing to help their citizens? Or does your argument boil down to "I don't like social democracies."

Shut up?
Wow,I must have touched a nerve.
It's your thread,you're the one being critical,of everything.
Tell us your solution,or,you know.
BTW,I've always enjoyed a good neo-nazi rally.I find watching fat old bald headed white guys trying to goose step comical.

well, then we'd own Mardi Gras *and* Carnivale, so there's that.... I'm down.

I think people need to realize that the federal government is not, never was, and never should be as omnipotent as they think it is. You can't just wave a wand and say "Recessionus Begonus".

Originally Posted By: RocketOptimist

Your Sweden idea won't help, either. It's obvious from various sources that social distancing saves lives. I'm not in favor of sacrificing anyone, period.

Just what is it you think Sweden isn't doing?

Quote:

We will be in a recession regardless of what happens from here on out. There's no avoiding it. Governments should help keep their citizens healthy. Sending a bunch of sacrificial lambs in order to make the 1% happy is no way to go.

Agreed. Recession was an almost inevitability as soon as 90%+ of the world economies shut down. That's just the way it is.

Quote:

Why can't we do what these other nations are doing to help their citizens? Or does your argument boil down to "I don't like social democracies."

I'll paraphrase DeWine: It's a tightrope act. We need to help people, but contrary to popular belief, government money doesn't come magically out of nowhere. The best way to keep us being able to help people is to start getting this economy restarted. Unlike the federal governement, most state governments are not allowed to run deficits. Hospitals need income to actually keep paying those nurses and doctors.... MONEY has to get circulating.

i agree.

however, more broadly, i can make a credible argument that if 80% of the total bailout relief went to individual americans instead of corporations, maybe it would be easier to kick start the economy.

especially seeing as 2/3rds of our GDP is consumer spending.

If I did the math right, that would be an extra $5,500+ dollars for every United States citizen.

Which is actually comparable to what the UK, New Zealand and Hong Kong did for their residents.

Too bad we care more about corporate welfare.

I won't argue that. More definitely needed to be done for individual families and a LOT less needed to be done for a lot of the international corporations that we bailed out.

The $600/week for the unemployed thing is going to help, though. It ain't much, but it will help take the edge off the worst of things, especially combined with regular state unemployment.

Still, that's money that can't and won't last forever. We have to start working toward where we want the economy to be 13, 16, 18 weeks from now when that money is gone.

First off, the corporate welfare aspect in all of this I agree with. They were given HUGE tax cuts just a year ago and now it seems that they once again get a large bailout. At some point enough is enough.

I too believe that with the trillions of dollars in relief packages that have been passed, the American people are actually receiving the smallest part of the pie. The smallest businesses who need the most help were also put last in line.

To me those things are unforgivable.

But that would have done nothing to stop a massive economic downturn in such a situation.

I would certainly feel better having a president that actually had an open mind that didn't surround himself with only corporate giants and their special interest whispering in his ear.

But to blame the current economic situation on the current government is not accurate by any stretch. Those nations doing more for their people and less for their large corporations are faring no better in terms of their economies.

well said, I think

Only change I'd make is

"I would certainly feel better having a president, senators, and representatives that actually had an open mind that didn't surround themselves with only corporate giants and their special interest whispering in their ears."

He talks and is the face, but nothing gets set in ink without those others writing it out and voting it into action. His talk and his cronies certainly didn't inject all that pork into the bill (not to detract from the points being made, but to enhance the point)

I guess that would depend on your definition of pork. I consider much of the pork to be a lot of the corporate welfare injected into the bills. I consider a lot of the pork the guidelines set out when dispersing the funds to small businesses to insure the biggest of them were first in line to get those loans.

And yes, I consider Mitch McConnell a huge Trump and special interest crony along with a lot of other Republican senators that helped get these bills written and passed.

You consider the corporate welfare (as do I to an extent), I consider the stuff added by Pelosi to be pork... regardless, pork is pork and it doesn't get in without the lawmakers having corporate giants and their special interest whispering in their ear.

it was supposed to be about helping the people, it was sold to the people as being to help the people.... it became a free-for-all. And note I don't pick a side in that statement.

"Let no crisis go to waste."

What is the pork you are speaking of? I've pretty much given you my perspective of the biggest portion of the pork in the bill. I'm very interested in seeing yours.

Originally Posted By: BCbrownie

Shut up?
Wow,I must have touched a nerve.
It's your thread,you're the one being critical,of everything.
Tell us your solution,or,you know.
BTW,I've always enjoyed a good neo-nazi rally.I find watching fat old bald headed white guys trying to goose step comical.

Your dishonesty comment earned you that deservingly.

And I know what I would do. I would institute UBI of $2000 a month like canada did and pour money into food relief programs. I would set up the groundwork for MC4A and initiate that program as well. We can use the war fund to fund it until taxes start coming in. I would send states the funds they need to keep services going without a cap. Then I would take a methodical approach to reopening the entire economy for all workers but require distancing, masks, gloves, plexiglass shielding, hand sanitizer and handwashing stations. Ask business owners to keep as many people as possible working remotely from home and to bring employees back incrementally with the most at risk being last. I would also keep the small business (for true small business) loans coming without a cap. Restaurants, bars, other businesses that might be slow to recover need a large cushion so those jobs can be saved.

I would rather spend 10 trillion to bring the economy back at full pace or as close as possible than let people suffer and tons of small businesses go under. But I give a damn about people so I know those things won't fly with the right.

money for public TV and radio, money for the Kennedy center (who took that money and then laid off everyone the very next day), $25 million to the House for salaries salaries and expenses, $75 million for National Endowment for the Arts, $75 million for National Endowment for the Humanities.

Additionally, the mere attempt to get added provisions that would mandate early voting, curb airlines’ carbon emissions, require corporate boards to report diversity levels, or require any business receiving aid to pay a $15 minimum wage were all utter BS and had absolutely NOTHING to do with COVID relief.

Recession is not my concern. Depression is my concern. Tent cities and soup lines. People going hungry and homeless. Not having medical care. Not having services in full like police, ems, fire... 30% unemployment puts you there, not at some economic bump in the road.

You can open everything tomorrow, that doesn't mean people want to be at those businesses working or spending money and risking their lives. There needs to be a serious mandated dose of common sense precautions because of the idiots. And a government figure head that doesn't incite fear everytime he opens his mouth. You want people to feel safe and re engage in the economy, then you're going to have to make them feel safe.

Originally Posted By: PrplPplEater

money for public TV and radio, money for the Kennedy center (who took that money and then laid off everyone the very next day), $25 million to the House for salaries salaries and expenses, $75 million for National Endowment for the Arts, $75 million for National Endowment for the Humanities.

Additionally, the mere attempt to get added provisions that would mandate early voting, curb airlines’ carbon emissions, require corporate boards to report diversity levels, or require any business receiving aid to pay a $15 minimum wage were all utter BS and had absolutely NOTHING to do with COVID relief.

Does bailing out wall street and billionaires have to do with COVID relief? And more tax cuts for the rich?

you can add all the common sense you want, and even mandate it, but if you don't let the businesses open in the first place you're just guaranteeing an outcome.

Let me simplify: the only way to avoid a recession/depression, or exit it quickly, is to get the economy moving again. Period.

To do that, yes, we are ABSOLUTELY going to have to enforce some common sense measures about HOW we do that. What that looks like and how it will be done is still being discussed at every level. Regardless of what it looks like though, the first part MUST happen.

You CANNOT avoid or get out of a depression by sitting idle. You can ONLY do it by getting businesses going and money circulating.

Originally Posted By: OldColdDawg

Originally Posted By: PrplPplEater

money for public TV and radio, money for the Kennedy center (who took that money and then laid off everyone the very next day), $25 million to the House for salaries salaries and expenses, $75 million for National Endowment for the Arts, $75 million for National Endowment for the Humanities.

Additionally, the mere attempt to get added provisions that would mandate early voting, curb airlines’ carbon emissions, require corporate boards to report diversity levels, or require any business receiving aid to pay a $15 minimum wage were all utter BS and had absolutely NOTHING to do with COVID relief.

Does bailing out wall street and billionaires have to do with COVID relief? And more tax cuts for the rich?

Did I say it didn't?

The only real point I must disagree with is paying the 15$ an hour. At the point you call some of these people "essential employees" rather than what they actually are, sacrificial lambs, is the time people should admit that these people deserve to make a living. And it is odd how Trump himself supported that money for The Kennedy Center.

Yep.

So that being said, which country will be volun-told to declare that they desperately need our freedom services?

Originally Posted By: PrplPplEater

you can add all the common sense you want, and even mandate it, but if you don't let the businesses open in the first place you're just guaranteeing an outcome.

Let me simplify: the only way to avoid a recession/depression, or exit it quickly, is to get the economy moving again. Period.

To do that, yes, we are ABSOLUTELY going to have to enforce some common sense measures about HOW we do that. What that looks like and how it will be done is still being discussed at every level. Regardless of what it looks like though, the first part MUST happen.

You CANNOT avoid or get out of a depression by sitting idle. You can ONLY do it by getting businesses going and money circulating.

I agree that you have to get it going. And the way we got out of the last one was by printing A LOT of money. That is how this one needs to be handled. You can't just bail out the rich and thumb your nose at the working class when then staying afloat is the difference between recession and depression.

Originally Posted By: OldColdDawg

Originally Posted By: PrplPplEater

you can add all the common sense you want, and even mandate it, but if you don't let the businesses open in the first place you're just guaranteeing an outcome.

Let me simplify: the only way to avoid a recession/depression, or exit it quickly, is to get the economy moving again. Period.

To do that, yes, we are ABSOLUTELY going to have to enforce some common sense measures about HOW we do that. What that looks like and how it will be done is still being discussed at every level. Regardless of what it looks like though, the first part MUST happen.

You CANNOT avoid or get out of a depression by sitting idle. You can ONLY do it by getting businesses going and money circulating.

I agree that you have to get it going. And the way we got out of the last one was by printing A LOT of money. That is how this one needs to be handled. You can't just bail out the rich and thumb your nose at the working class when then staying afloat is the difference between recession and depression.

Yeah! Then we can all eat ice cream and wait it out!

You're one liners are rather comical. The White House unveiled the steps to open the economy. They laid out the steps for the guideline of what should be required to open it up and the requirements to move ahead in those steps. Some states are ignoring that and going ahead without meeting those requirements.

Here they are as laid out by the White House.

https://www.whitehouse.gov/openingamerica/

Very few have spoken out about this being a bad thing. It's called a responsible way of doing it. But go ahead with your one liners that say nothing.

Originally Posted By: OldColdDawg

Originally Posted By: PrplPplEater

money for public TV and radio, money for the Kennedy center (who took that money and then laid off everyone the very next day), $25 million to the House for salaries salaries and expenses, $75 million for National Endowment for the Arts, $75 million for National Endowment for the Humanities.

Additionally, the mere attempt to get added provisions that would mandate early voting, curb airlines’ carbon emissions, require corporate boards to report diversity levels, or require any business receiving aid to pay a $15 minimum wage were all utter BS and had absolutely NOTHING to do with COVID relief.

Does bailing out wall street and billionaires have to do with COVID relief? And more tax cuts for the rich?

Bailing out wall street and billionaires? If you man some of our larger businses like the Airlines. Do you really want to let these big business go under. Last I heard they hire quite a few people too. Cuts for the rich? Sam old liberal BS.

Didn't they just get huge tax cuts last year? Where did all of that money go?

I'm just curious because ya'll used to be the party of personal responsibility. Now you seem to be the party of annual corporate bailouts.

I'll never forget how all of you reacted when Obama bailed out the auto industry and the banks during our last financial crisis. What happened over the past decade?

Originally Posted By: PitDAWG

Didn't they just get huge tax cuts last year? Where did all of that money go?

I'm just curious because ya'll used to be the party of personal responsibility. Now you seem to be the party of annual corporate bailouts.

I'll never forget how all of you reacted when Obama bailed out the auto industry and the banks during our last financial crisis. What happened over the past decade?

Yeah Pit, let em all go under. They don't hire anybody. Give that money to Illegal Immigrants.

So how many years in a row should we keep handing them bailouts?

That isn't what all of you were saying when Obama bailed out the auto industry and they all had to pay it back. What happened?

Originally Posted By: Day of the Dawg

Originally Posted By: OldColdDawg

Originally Posted By: PrplPplEater

you can add all the common sense you want, and even mandate it, but if you don't let the businesses open in the first place you're just guaranteeing an outcome.

Let me simplify: the only way to avoid a recession/depression, or exit it quickly, is to get the economy moving again. Period.

To do that, yes, we are ABSOLUTELY going to have to enforce some common sense measures about HOW we do that. What that looks like and how it will be done is still being discussed at every level. Regardless of what it looks like though, the first part MUST happen.

You CANNOT avoid or get out of a depression by sitting idle. You can ONLY do it by getting businesses going and money circulating.

I agree that you have to get it going. And the way we got out of the last one was by printing A LOT of money. That is how this one needs to be handled. You can't just bail out the rich and thumb your nose at the working class when then staying afloat is the difference between recession and depression.

Yeah! Then we can all eat ice cream and wait it out!

You got a problem bailing out the working class? Or just a snide remark for me? Ice cream licker.

Originally Posted By: PitDAWG

So how many years in a row should we keep handing them bailouts?

That isn't what all of you were saying when Obama bailed out the auto industry and they all had to pay it back. What happened?

Obama was a idiot. ( still is ) Would you agree this Pandemic is un presented?

Originally Posted By: Dawg Duty

Originally Posted By: OldColdDawg

Originally Posted By: PrplPplEater

money for public TV and radio, money for the Kennedy center (who took that money and then laid off everyone the very next day), $25 million to the House for salaries salaries and expenses, $75 million for National Endowment for the Arts, $75 million for National Endowment for the Humanities.

Additionally, the mere attempt to get added provisions that would mandate early voting, curb airlines’ carbon emissions, require corporate boards to report diversity levels, or require any business receiving aid to pay a $15 minimum wage were all utter BS and had absolutely NOTHING to do with COVID relief.

Does bailing out wall street and billionaires have to do with COVID relief? And more tax cuts for the rich?

Bailing out wall street and billionaires? If you man some of our larger businses like the Airlines. Do you really want to let these big business go under. Last I heard they hire quite a few people too. Cuts for the rich? Sam old liberal BS.

Tax cuts:

Senate Republicans slipped a tax break for wealthy real estate investors into the $2 trillion coronavirus stimulus package

https://www.businessinsider.com/wealthy-...stimulus-2020-3

And yes the majority of all this stimulus money went to prop up the investment class. Wall Street and the 1%ers. Just facts they don't disclose over on Fox News.

Originally Posted By: Dawg Duty

Originally Posted By: PitDAWG

So how many years in a row should we keep handing them bailouts?

That isn't what all of you were saying when Obama bailed out the auto industry and they all had to pay it back. What happened?

Obama was a idiot. ( still is ) Would you agree this Pandemic is un presented?

I think it has presented. But it is unprecedented in our lifetimes. (phonics much?) And Obama's fingernails were smarter than Trump. I might not have agreed with everything Obama did but he damn sure wasn't an idiot like Trump. After you go get your disinfectant shot we can debate that.

Originally Posted By: Dawg Duty

Obama was a idiot. ( still is ) Would you agree this Pandemic is un presented?

In economic terms at this time it's really not much different than the economy Bush left for Obama.

So let me get this straight.

Obama bailouts = Bad

Trump bailouts = Good.

Because Obama = Idiot.

Do you know just how dumb that sounds?

Originally Posted By: PitDAWG

Originally Posted By: Dawg Duty

Obama was a idiot. ( still is ) Would you agree this Pandemic is un presented?

In economic terms at this time it's really not much different than the economy Bush left for Obama.

So let me get this straight.

Obama bailouts = Bad

Trump bailouts = Good.

Because Obama = Idiot.

Do you know just how dumb that sounds?

I don't remember saying O's bailouts were bad. I think we need all these big boys.

Chicago Tribune blasts Illinois Senate's 'rotten' request for $41.6B federal bailout as 'shameless'

The editorial board of the Chicago Tribune has repeatedly slammed the Illinois Senate's request for a whopping $41.6 billion federal bailout as the state's financial troubles continue to grow amid the coronavirus outbreak.

"Let’s stipulate that Don Harmon, rookie president of the Illinois Senate, laid a rotten egg with his recent letter asking members of Congress to give Illinois a $40.6 billion bequest. Assorted politicians and pundits have scorned Harmon’s inclusion of a $10 billion pension bailout, as if a sudden pandemic created a pension crisis that, in fact, Harmon and his fellow Springfield lawmakers spent decades creating," the editorial board began a piece on Friday. "We called Harmon’s request shameless and dishonest. His 'ask' was roundly criticized and, we would bet, part of the reason Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell rejected the idea of state bailouts in a recent radio interview."

The Tribune editorial board agreed with McConnell that states should solve the problems they created and added that "taxpayers across the country should not be responsible for Illinois’ financial mismanagement and particularly its unfunded pension liabilities."

"It also helped expose Illinois Democrats’ agenda for 2020. While asking for a federal bailout, they have shown no movement toward cutting spending or removing from the November ballot a constitutional amendment that eventually will mean higher income taxes for millions of Illinois taxpayers," the board elaborated.

"What is beyond galling is using the coronavirus as an excuse," the board wrote on Sunday. "Even by this state’s low standards, asking federal taxpayers from California to North Carolina, from North Dakota to Texas -- farmers, small business owners, teachers, nurses, bus drivers, bartenders- to help dig Illinois out of its pre-coronavirus, self-inflicted, financial hellhole is astonishingly brazen. Every member of Congress should carefully scrutinize pleas from states whose unbalanced budgets, embarrassing credit ratings and vastly underfunded pension systems predated virus outbreak."

https://www.foxnews.com/media/chicago-tribune-blasts-illinois-senate-bailout-request

Originally Posted By: Swish

Yep.

So that being said, which country will be volun-told to declare that they desperately need our freedom services?

All of them, of course.

Check your day planner, who's next ... or closest. Whichever.

Treat this virus like a war, and invest heavily in medicine.

Vaccines are the new commodity of war, all hands on deck.

Well, another 3.8 million people filed for unemployment, leaving us with a grand total of 30.3 million people unemployed in the last 6 weeks, which completely wipes out the 22 million jobs we gained since the Great Recession.

And a lot of those people won’t be getting their jobs back. All businesses needed was a reason to accelerate their moves to more automation, and they got it thanks to COVID-19.

3.8 million, filed for unemployment, this week,
won't affect you, effects me.

1 out of 10 people in the USA filed for unemployment since January, < is that a fair statement?

How will this effect me pearsonally? Not sure.
Cleveland Browns stadium, when I was in it and really full, real real full, the highest announced attendance, (they'd always announce it) 73,000 usually, 76,000+ one time, and I'm telling ya, it was like swimming in people. everywhere.

So we will fill it up, fill it to the brim with unemployed people, people who have filed for unemployment in the USA, (Since January, or, in the last 90+ days)
We'll fill it 100 times dangit.

Where we going to put those 100 Cleveland Browns stadiums full of people, with no jobs,

I don't know, we'll put em somewhere far from me, won't effect me.
um kay, there's another 100 stadiums, just as many
a stadium
a stadium
a stadium
a stadium waiting, and they are also out of work,
Just since January
25, 35 40, just swimming in people, where we going to put this 100, is it going to effect me yet

that's 200 Cleveland Browns stadiums of unemployed filed with the government, since January,

ehh, lets just shove the first 100 stadiums full on the east coast, and the 2nd 100 stadiums full on the west coast,

It's not that there are 200 filled to the brim Cleveland Browns stadiums full of people who filed for unemployment in the USA since January.

It's not that,

It's that there are 394.7 stadiums,

Filled to the brim, 76K, Cleveland Browns stadium, Since January.

THREE HUNDRED,
NINETY,

and still 4.7 stadiums waiting in line, unemployed,
not producing,

It's not going to, it's not going to effect the economy is it?

We're not going to have crowds somewhere, of people with like minds, to deal with are we?
2008 didn't change things either?

ehh sure, chicken little, chicken little, sky is falling,
no worries, this will all be done in 2 weeks

what?

The 3.8 million filing for unemployment this week brings the total unemployment filings in the USA since COVID to 30,000,000 plus. Divide that by the seats in Cleveland Browns stadium; and 300 million the approx: population of the USA, 326m.

Whats coming will NOT be a Recession, it will be a Depression, and one of epic proportions.

What many don't understand and what I have been trying to tell poeple is the economy will NOT be the same after this. We have had things shut down since around March 10th, and are not going to probably be fully re-opened again till end of May or early June. Thats almost 3 months of shutdown.

What folks ar enot understand is that the same number of "Economic Inputs and outputs" have changed DRASTICALLY sincew we shut things down.

For example, Company B always bought 100,000 widgets from Company A every week, but after the lockdown Company B no longer exists to buy widgets from Company A. This is going to be a :common theme" when we come out of this.

I fully expect between 12-17 million layoffs after the country is re-opened. The Federal Reserve warned out government to expect a 22% contraction to the economy...22% is a lot...like a TON...your talking millions of jobs.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/202...ays/5091156002/

https://nypost.com/2020/03/31/federal-reserve-predicts-32-unemployment-rate-thanks-to-coronavirus/

32% unemployment is unheard of...the Great Depression was only 24%....the protections put in place after the Great Depression were NOT desinged to handle a situation like this. The Federal Reserve has pretty much said it "can't" just print money our way out of this one, it can't just proper everything up.

The Stock Market lost 12 trillion early on in a matter of days, the market has continued to lose, and 1st quarter earning reports hurt it even more. We are now looking at probably an awful 2nd quarter too.

The Federal Reserve and the Govt now have no choice when they re-open except to sit back and let the market correct. They do not have the 40 trillion dollars necessary to "Quantitative Ease" our way out of this one. Every day our economy was closed cost us a lot of money. Money that was used to fund businesses, fund government, fund education, public works projects, etc.

We are all in for one hell of a ride...we are all going to know very soon what our grandparents went through in the 1920s. The number of house foreclosures and peoples kicked out of their homes will hit record highs like nothing ever seen in the history of this nation.

Either we start another long protracted war with someone to jump start our economy, or we are looking at 10 years of economic misery...not much in way of choices.

No.

Shoulda shut down sports and crowds,
but I'm not on board with shoulda shuda shut down restaurants, barber shops, it probably all came down to bars, bars= crowds and drunk,
and someone probably said, if we say no bars, restaurants will just try to be bars, bars will try to be restaurants, and policing it won't be possible.
Then, shutting down all the restaurants, then they shut down something like kohls, and bridal shops, that doesn't make sense, you don't have to spend time in there anymore than carry out.

They've so messed up now, May or June is a pipe-dream,

if they went full force now, with these new rules, they couldn't open 80% by August,
and since they are dragging their feet, it'll be November-Next May timeline,
by then it might not even matter, nothing left to open.

But the stock market is strong...

As bad as the economy is it makes you wonder how long they can keep propping up the stock market with every other indicator being so poor.

The only thing that will work is the one thing they are avoiding. You want to save the economy, bail out the working class. UBI. People will spend that money back into the economy almost immediately, especially within a depression. This would also allow businesses trying to stay open be able to retain critical employees on reduced schedules or promising rehire at some point in the near future.

I've read more than one article calling this a two year pandemic and asserting that two years is the minimum time we could expect to pass before returning to anything resembling the old normal. Working people can't manage two years of economic devastation regardless of Trumps cheerleading. The majority of businesses will not survive that atmosphere. BUT money from the bottom up will keep everything moving and reduce the impact by years, maybe decades.

Everyone knows that our economy is driven by consumer spending. Until of course the time comes to put the money in the hands of those doing the spending. All of a sudden they revert to the disproven theory of the top down economic rhetoric.

And cry about the national debt...

while they hoarde more sums of money than could be spent by the next 4 generations of their progeny.

GOOD NEWS! This will frost Trump's ass. Bezos now richer.

Amazon posts $75bn first-quarter revenues but expects to spend $4bn in Covid-19 costs

- Earnings in first three months equivalent to $33m an hour
- Company says it will spend on PPE, cleaning and higher wages

Amazon emerged as one of the big winners of the coronavirus pandemic on Thursday, announcing it had revenues of $75.4bn in the first three months of the year – over $33m an hour.

The boom in sales, 26% higher than the same time last year, came at a cost as profit fell 29% from a year earlier to $2.5bn. And the company said there was more spending to come.

Jeff Bezos, Amazon’s founder, said the company’s shareholders should “take a seat” because the company planned to spend $4bn or more in the next three months on coronavirus-related expenses, including getting products to customers and keeping employees safe.

Bezos said: “This includes investments in personal protective equipment, enhanced cleaning of our facilities, less efficient process paths that better allow for effective social distancing, higher wages for hourly teams, and hundreds of millions to develop our own Covid-19 testing capabilities.”

The $4bn spend will be equal to Amazon’s entire profit for the next quarter, and its shares sank on the news.

Amazon’s net sales rose to $46bn for the first quarter, up from $35.8bn for the same period last year.

The company also benefitted from a $10.3bn boost from Amazon Web Services, its web hosting service, which counts Netflix among its clients as well as the World Health Organization.

Other retailers, including Macy’s and Nieman Marcus, have laid off thousands of employees and are struggling to stay in business. Amazon, meanwhile, has been hiring at a furious pace to keep up with demand from customers stuck at home thanks to quarantine orders across the US. In the past two months it has announced plans to take on another 175,000 employees.

The boom in sales has further added to Bezos’s enormous wealth. Already the world’s richest man, Bezos has seen his fortune swell by $13bn this month to $145bn, as Amazon’s share price hit new highs. He is the biggest winner among a number of billionaires who have added $308bn to their wealth amid the crisis.

The lockdown has created a situation not unlike the one Amazon experiences on Black Friday, the annual pre-Christmas shopping bonanza, and its own annual Prime Day sale, said US investment bank Cowen. It wrote: “Amazon has seen an ‘enormous increase in demand’ as shoppers are forced to stay home, essentially creating an extended Prime Day/Black Friday type of situation.”

While Amazon’s soaring sales have boosted its fortunes, workers at Amazon warehouses and its Whole Foods supermarket chain have protested that the company has not done enough to protect them from the coronavirus. Protests are planned at some of its sites on Friday.

Derrick Palmer, an Amazon employee at the JFK8 warehouse in Staten Island, New York, who has worked at Amazon for over four years, said: “Right now, Amazon workers are very depressed. We feel like it’s either stay home and let bills pile up or go to work and possibly get sick.”

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2020/apr/30/amazon-revenues-jeff-bezos-coronavirus-pandemic

I love the text in white. lol

It looks like he's planning to finally do right by employees and be more responsible during the pandemic. Time will tell.

ALSO the only credit Trump gets for this windfall in profits is negative credit! lmao. smh. So many times he has targeted Bezos and Amazon, yet America turned to them during the emergency shut down... #Karma

Republican Says They’ll Help the Unemployed More Over His Dead Body!

Well maybe voters should put Lindsey Graham on unemployment.

May Day protester's epic rant about rich CEOs and Congress

I'm telling you right now, the pitchforks are coming.

Mark Cuban: Raise Minimum Wage So Peasants Don't Rise Up

Former PA Gov. Tom Ridge: Armed Protesters "Not Heroic, Not Courageous" | Amanpour and Company

BREAKING: Unemployment claims surpass 36 MILLION, as poorest amongst us get WIPED OUT

Trump's got this!

smfh

Well now I see why y'all call Bernie crazy. He wants to help you people, he must be crazy.

I actually don't disagree in principal.

He turns it on President Trump and says Governors don't have the right to govern their states....I disagree with that.

We do need to support those who need the support, be it citizens or business.

We do need to open things up. All governments depend on people working, paying taxes. It's where they get their money to operate and provide services.

All people need their trash collected, and in the end, the trash man needs to get paid. They have employees to pay and landfill fees to pay.

[quote=Ballpeen]I actually don't disagree in principal.

He turns it on President Trump and says Governors don't have the right to govern their states....I disagree with that.

We do need to support those who need the support, be it citizens or business.

We do need to open things up. All governments depend on people working, paying taxes. It's where they get their money to operate and provide services.

All people need their trash collected, and in the end, the trash man needs to get paid. They

Well, don't you think that Trump deserves to have it landed on him.. I mean, threatening to stop Federal Funding to Michigan is they push for mail in voting? Isn't that Blackmail? He does stuff like that all the time. That's just one recent example.

Originally Posted By: Ballpeen

I actually don't disagree in principal.

He turns it on President Trump and says Governors don't have the right to govern their states....I disagree with that.

We do need to support those who need the support, be it citizens or business.

We do need to open things up. All governments depend on people working, paying taxes. It's where they get their money to operate and provide services.

All people need their trash collected, and in the end, the trash man needs to get paid. They have employees to pay and landfill fees to pay.

Well, don't you think that Trump deserves to have it landed on him.. I mean, threatening to stop Federal Funding to Michigan is they push for mail in voting? Isn't that Blackmail? He does stuff like that all the time. That's just one recent example.

Trump already said he takes no responsibility. He's only responsible for threatening and firing people who refuse to do everything he wants and agree with everything he says.

Originally Posted By: Damanshot

Originally Posted By: Ballpeen

I actually don't disagree in principal.

He turns it on President Trump and says Governors don't have the right to govern their states....I disagree with that.

We do need to support those who need the support, be it citizens or business.

We do need to open things up. All governments depend on people working, paying taxes. It's where they get their money to operate and provide services.

All people need their trash collected, and in the end, the trash man needs to get paid. They have employees to pay and landfill fees to pay.

Well, don't you think that Trump deserves to have it landed on him.. I mean, threatening to stop Federal Funding to Michigan is they push for mail in voting? Isn't that Blackmail? He does stuff like that all the time. That's just one recent example.

No Daman, that is just politics.

Originally Posted By: Ballpeen

Originally Posted By: Damanshot

Originally Posted By: Ballpeen

I actually don't disagree in principal.

He turns it on President Trump and says Governors don't have the right to govern their states....I disagree with that.

We do need to support those who need the support, be it citizens or business.

We do need to open things up. All governments depend on people working, paying taxes. It's where they get their money to operate and provide services.

All people need their trash collected, and in the end, the trash man needs to get paid. They have employees to pay and landfill fees to pay.

Well, don't you think that Trump deserves to have it landed on him.. I mean, threatening to stop Federal Funding to Michigan is they push for mail in voting? Isn't that Blackmail? He does stuff like that all the time. That's just one recent example.

No Daman, that is just politics.

No peen it isn’t politics. 100,000 dead American’s and millions unemployed On his watch while trump Ignores US citizens and goes golfing with his deplorable supporters. Pffft trump.

This type of politics goes beyond anything this nation has ever seen. There's a growing list of IG's, the only thing that keeps politicians accountable, you can look at to see this.

Originally Posted By: PerfectSpiral

Originally Posted By: Ballpeen

Originally Posted By: Damanshot

Originally Posted By: Ballpeen

I actually don't disagree in principal.

He turns it on President Trump and says Governors don't have the right to govern their states....I disagree with that.

We do need to support those who need the support, be it citizens or business.

We do need to open things up. All governments depend on people working, paying taxes. It's where they get their money to operate and provide services.

All people need their trash collected, and in the end, the trash man needs to get paid. They have employees to pay and landfill fees to pay.

Well, don't you think that Trump deserves to have it landed on him.. I mean, threatening to stop Federal Funding to Michigan is they push for mail in voting? Isn't that Blackmail? He does stuff like that all the time. That's just one recent example.

No Daman, that is just politics.

No peen it isn’t politics. 100,000 dead American’s and millions unemployed On his watch while trump Ignores US citizens and goes golfing with his deplorable supporters. Pffft trump.

I really take offence you are somehow blaming President Trump and conservatives for this. Stop.

I get it, you don't like President Trump. I can deal with that. I get it, you don't agree with conservatives, just like I don't agree with your thinking, but to try to pin 100,000 deaths on the President or me is unjust, and uncalled for.

There are lines we don't need to cross. Stop crossing the line.

Think before you type.

Originally Posted By: Ballpeen

Originally Posted By: PerfectSpiral

Originally Posted By: Ballpeen

Originally Posted By: Damanshot

Originally Posted By: Ballpeen

I actually don't disagree in principal.

He turns it on President Trump and says Governors don't have the right to govern their states....I disagree with that.

We do need to support those who need the support, be it citizens or business.

We do need to open things up. All governments depend on people working, paying taxes. It's where they get their money to operate and provide services.

All people need their trash collected, and in the end, the trash man needs to get paid. They have employees to pay and landfill fees to pay.

Well, don't you think that Trump deserves to have it landed on him.. I mean, threatening to stop Federal Funding to Michigan is they push for mail in voting? Isn't that Blackmail? He does stuff like that all the time. That's just one recent example.

No Daman, that is just politics.

No peen it isn’t politics. 100,000 dead American’s and millions unemployed On his watch while trump Ignores US citizens and goes golfing with his deplorable supporters. Pffft trump.

I really take offence you are somehow blaming President Trump and conservatives for this. Stop.

I get it, you don't like President Trump. I can deal with that. I get it, you don't agree with conservatives, just like I don't agree with your thinking, but to try to pin 100,000 deaths on the President or me is unjust

Too bad.......You can’t deal with the fact that I don’t like trump. You can’t except the fact I don’t like his supporters either. Because you don’t understand why I don’t like them.

And yes trump, his cronies, and his supporters are responsible for everything that has happened in the USA since this Virus showed up on our shores. They ignored the situation for two months, And then they fought this war by sending troops to the front lines unprotected and now refuse to pay them combat pay.

Deplorable people do the most deplorable things. Enjoy the second and third wave bro, because it’s on the way with what trump and his supporters are doing.

J/C

The UK is providing furloughed workers with 80% of their salaries, Canada is paying their citizens a large amount of money for the next few months, and 45 is over here having his Dubya “MISSION ACCOMPLISHED!” moment so the stock market can increase while we’re about to have a summer covid surge.

How far we have fallen. Hope all of you who support “no masks and reopen everything without restrictions” sleep well knowing your views will cause sickness and death.

Originally Posted By: RocketOptimist

J/C

The UK is providing furloughed workers with 80% of their salaries, Canada is paying their citizens a large amount of money for the next few months, and 45 is over here having his Dubya “MISSION ACCOMPLISHED!” moment so the stock market can increase while we’re about to have a summer covid surge.

How far we have fallen. Hope all of you who support “no masks and reopen everything without restrictions” sleep well knowing your views will cause sickness and death.

Summer surge? Are Democrat Governors in Blue states putting Covid patients in nursing homes again?

Originally Posted By: Day of the Dawg

Originally Posted By: RocketOptimist

J/C

The UK is providing furloughed workers with 80% of their salaries, Canada is paying their citizens a large amount of money for the next few months, and 45 is over here having his Dubya “MISSION ACCOMPLISHED!” moment so the stock market can increase while we’re about to have a summer covid surge.

How far we have fallen. Hope all of you who support “no masks and reopen everything without restrictions” sleep well knowing your views will cause sickness and death.

Summer surge? Are Democrat Governors in Blue states putting Covid patients in nursing homes again?

No idiots in the south are flocking in mass at the beaches, and participating in large social gatherings with no regard for their own safety. As the summer warms up it’ll get worse elsewhere. The average American attention span is of that of a gnat. Even when it comes to their own health.

Not just the South. Miami of Ohio was partying like crazy the weekend before last.

Peen, nobody is blaming Trump for the virus. But I think you already know that.

They are blaming him for his slow response to it. For saying, doing and promoting dumb things. For adding to the consequences of the virus.

These things have been plainly shown over and over again.

You do realize he just threatened N. Carolina if they wouldn't promise to allow full occupancy at the RNC convention, right? You think that won't add to the problem rather than help solve it? Come on man.

Originally Posted By: oobernoober

Not just the South. Miami of Ohio was partying like crazy the weekend before last.

There are certainly idiots in all 50 states.

Originally Posted By: PitDAWG

Peen, nobody is blaming Trump for the virus. But I think you already know that.

They are blaming him for his slow response to it. For saying, doing and promoting dumb things. For adding to the consequences of the virus.

These things have been plainly shown over and over again.

You do realize he just threatened N. Carolina if they wouldn't promise to allow full occupancy at the RNC convention, right? You think that won't add to the problem rather than help solve it? Come on man.

I wear my mask nearly everywhere I go when indoors. I don't wear it when walking the Riverwalk. You can maintain some space when walking past someone.

I also understand we can't just shut down for the years it might take to find a vaccine. If we find one at all. Very possibly the average life expectancy drops significantly. Maybe the late 30's, mid 40's like it was many years ago. Things change.

Take your precautions, and hope for the best. We can't just sit in the rabbit hole forever.

No doubt since some restrictions have been lifted, some peoples behavior is nothing short of reckless.

OK....you are 24, you probably aren't going to die from this, but that 45 year old you just spread it to very well could.

Maintain space.
Wear a mask.
If you are coughing, don't go out.

Use sanitizer.
Don't touch your face until you get back in the car and sanitize. Use plenty so you can wipe down the steering wheel and door handle.

Some people don't seem to care, until they kill their parents. Then they will care. Care if it is someone else's parents or grandparents.

I know I sure as hell don't want to kill someone else's child.

How bad would that suck!? Pretty bad where I come from.

Yet your boy trump is roasting Biden online for wearing a mask while trump’s supporters rejoice and scream ban mail in voting..Pfft... mass murder in plain site.

See, we are very much in agreement as to how someone should handle themselves. I am very much like you in that respect.

But according to what you just outlined, forcing a situation at a national convention where a large auditorium is packed to full capacity is reckless, harmful and dangerous.

Our beliefs are very close actually on how people should conduct themselves but I do believe that the minimum guidelines should have been followed. It would have slightly altered the timing of the openings but been a much safer way to have moved forward.

14 days with a decline in cases before entering stage 1. If you can continue 14 more days without increased cases, you move onto stage 2 and so on. Alabama is already seeing a problem with hospital capacities.

With Some ICUs At Capacity, Alabama Accelerates Its Reopening

https://www.forbes.com/sites/nicholasrei...g/#3df64cfb2009

I think where the message gets lost is some think people such as myself simply wanted things shut down forever or until a vaccine was found. I don't believe that is true at all. We just wanted to see the entire thing handled in a more responsible manner from day 1 until now. It just hasn't been.

I stopped trying to be reasonable with trump supporters. Waste of breath and bandwidth. Their line always begins...”I don’t like trump, but”. Then support his every move no matter how deplorable it is.

jc..

Here's what I have seen and heard from friends in the service industries here.

That while we have opened up restaurant capacity to 50%, the majority of restaurants are still seeing less than 25% capacity at any given time.

I stopped in at a local restaurant/bar to see a buddy and find out how things were going yesterday. I was there maybe 90 mins, and even though they have normal capacity of about 250ppl (125 at 50%), I saw 9 people there. He said Sunday has been their busiest since reopening, and that had 84 people the entire day.

This is what I hear from others in the industry, that even though the places are open, people aren't coming out in droves.

I think it's going to take a while before most people are comfortable in cramped spaces.

I will say I know of one exception. As I left, I passed by one of the outdoor bars in the same plaza, that is best known as a college hangout, and it was not packed, but definitely very busy with college kids, no social distancing.

Peen and I have known each other for a very long time. There are some posters you just can't have a conversation with. There are some I still try to. To each their own I suppose.

Originally Posted By: PerfectSpiral

I stopped trying to be reasonable with trump supporters. Waste of breath and bandwidth. Their line always begins...”I don’t like trump, but”. Then support his every move no matter how deplorable it is.

Please correct me where I'm wrong.

If someone tries to think rationally about individual decisions Trump makes, then they're automatically a Trump supporter?

From the tone of your posts, you might have to sit down for this next part....

It's possible to support decisions someone makes even if you don't like the person, or even their decision-making in general.
Flip it around... everyone is supposed to vehemently protest each of his decisions simply because he's the one making them? Sounds silly.

Thank you.

And perfect didn't "stop trying to be reasonable with Trump supporters", as he claims. He never TRIED being reasonable in the first place.