BLM and their ilk are doing EXACTLY what the Nazi's done before they over threw the Weirmar Republic in Germany. History is repeating itself.

We are having a modern day Kristallnacht

These people are using violence to get their way. Just like the Nazi's toppled all kinds of statues and historical art.

Sad how the media condones this Bs and is more worried about what Trump tweeted rather than the SOB trying to destroy our country.

We still have time to change that in November. If Trump gets two terms it may be too late.

Similarities between Hitler and Trump

We all have been raised, or at least a larger percentage of Americans were raised, to despise Adolph Hitler, although I’ve heard some mumble that his idea to terminate the Jews was a good one, and that support for such a tyrant led to the destruction of the country of Germany and brought on a world war. There are similarities with Hitler and Donald J. Trump that we cannot ignore.

Both Hitler and Trump attack the judiciary and rule of law.

Both Hitler and Trump attack the media.

Both men degrade anyone who disagrees with them. Trump’s allegedly, “disloyal” bureaucrats in the State Department, EPA, FBI, CIA who he calls the deep state are in deep trouble with him, for example.

Both denigrate the immigrants. Hitler wanted to free Germany of Slavs and Jews, and the moment he came down the escalator to announce he was running for president Trump declared that people of color were the cause of the nation’s ills. Both made border closings the centerpiece of their campaigns. I’m not one for open borders, but I do see a stark similarity with their propaganda of pitting ethnicity and race against those of the Aryan race.

Both demonize their political opponents — Hitler called his opponents parasites, criminals and leftist scum. Sound familiar?

Hitler provided the masses with transistor radios that received only one channel, thus prohibiting people from receiving any outside influence. Trump’s daily tweets online and permits only one media network to be viewed by our military, which is Fox.

Neither was elected by the majority. Let that sink in.

Under Trump, large corporations have immense political power and receive a huge financial windfall to further undermine unions. Hitler despised the German labor movement and destroyed it by imprisoning their leaders. Trump has indicated many times he would like to jail people who accuse him of wrongdoing, as they did in the olden days.

Trump uses paraphrases such as Hitler’s “lying press” and “fake news” and deride the importance of scientific data and rely on their worlds public opinion ultimately defining what is true and what is false. Sixty percent of Trump voters do not believe he asked the Ukraine president to investigate the Bidens, when, in fact, the president himself said he did and showed us the document and repeated the statement on the White House lawn.

Hitler attacked democracy itself by purging voter roles and challenging the integrity of electoral process. Before the outcome of the 2016 election was made final Trump said he would decline to accept anything other than a win. That it was rigged.

https://www.heraldstaronline.com/opinion...tler-and-trump/

Kristallnacht looked like this:




Not a single BLM T-shirt to be seen.
This op-ed is a bs waste of prp's bandwidth

Black Lives Matter looks like this:



All the while they tear down Francis Scott Key's monument



Edited

Your interpretation of history and somehow trying to draw a comparison to BLM is twisted and self defining.

Remember everyone, Knight has a history of finding ways to justify the murder of black Americans.

Go back to Pure Football and start calling other Browns staff random names from South Park. That's like the only thing you're remotely competent at.

Couldn't agree more. Personally I think there are some people who use the BLM movement and other political causes to steal, deface property, and pull down statues. If you don't think their way and conform to ALL their values than you're labeled as "bad" and your thoughts aren't taken into account. They want to silence your words. A movement based on that and violence is the start of fascism.

And these people who violently protest, that's just plan anarchy to me. Some of those people need to be dealt with using force. If talk doesn't work, force always does.

Take for example some of the mayors of these blue Democrat states such as Oregon and Washington. I think these people should be held criminally liable for any damages of personal property or incidents carried out within these sham zones.

Its the police responsibility to protect citizens in some capacity. The people are paying for that in taxes. A lot of people are suing Seattle into the ground for what happened over the past month. I also think a cop's salary should be $500,000 a year minimum so I don't agree with the defund the police utter stupidity and nonsense.

That's all you've got to bring to the conversation? Garbage.

The majority of the BLM movement should not be lumped together with those that destroy property.

To try to make a comparison to Nazi Germany is a misplaced generalization that is solely agenda driven.

Clearly both of you are blind to what this movement and cause is about.

j/c:

I think the comparison of BLM and Nazi Germany is pretty absurd.

However, I think the fact that so many blacks won't accept any accountability at all for their problems is a problem. The crusade is on to attack the police. But, knocking down law enforcement will not stop unwed marriages where women have babies from multiple fathers. It will not stop gang violence. It will not stop black men from beating their women. It will not stop the selling of drugs or the misuse of drugs. It will not stop demanding getting things for not working.

The black community has many supporters and there are a ton of blacks who are succeeding by educating themselves and working hard. However, when movements want to ignore the problems that blacks create for other blacks and place all the blame on whites, law enforcement, etc.......than they lose people like me who have supported them for a lifetime.

Fine, have it your way.

Bingo! Education (and the resultant better jobs and higher standard of living) is The Way out of this 'mess'...

I hear Trump wants re-education camps, is that what you think we need?

What's the point in education if you spend yourself into serfdom to get it?

We need to fix the education system to support all students.

The system is broken.

The fact is that more education dollars are allocated towards impoverished and minority students by our Federal government than to others.

I agree w/that line of thinking. We should provide them w/better schools and more advanced technology. What we need is for more blacks to actually embrace education and the power it can give them.

Many minorities, such as my wife, understood that. They have succeeded. It's all there for them. Her brother and sister did not. We support her sister. Her brother is an okay guy who is a mechanic and will work, but he has an alcohol and drug problem. Opportunities are there. It's up to individuals to take them or to blame others for their circumstances.

What is a re-education camp? I am not familiar w/this.

My wife makes over $300,000 per year. That's not serfdom. She works w/black doctors who make much more. That is not serfdom.

I think we should continue to try and help blacks, but once again, perhaps it is time for them to accept some accountability?

Money is only part of the equation.

Where the money is spent is where things get screwed up.

We need to return power and control to localities while also adhering to national standards. Agree to a system of education for everyone to learn, and give each locality the power to design their own system (ones that uses community, cultural, and local resources) that affirms individuals while actually teaching processes that build critical thinking minds. We don't have this system.

We currently have a system that calls for us to dump knowledge into a student's brain, wishes for them to regurgitate that nonsense in a tiny little bubble that can be filled in with a number two pencil, and this will then determine if they're ready to serve the 1%. There is no agency, a type of being where people have their own control over their learning, filled education.

You want buy in? Give localities the control to use content which affirms their identity. We don't have that as we currently operate.

The Dems are now a party of chaos. They want open borders, high taxes, redistribution of wealth, defund police departments, and now not only keeping the black community on the government plantation, they want all people on the government plantation.

The sad part is there are a lot of you who buy in to that and think that is the way out.

I agree with Vers. People need to take more accountability for their own situation and quit blaming it on everybody and everything else.

Life is a series of steps. You don't simply wake up at age 30 and are a banker, or MD, or business executive. You start taking those steps when you are 8 years old. You listen to your teachers, you study, you figure out a way to go to college or learn a vocation of some sort.

If you expect things to be handed to you, expect to be handed a lot of crap.

My biggest gripe is that I don't see discussions where they accept some accountability and talk about what they need to do better. It's always about how others are to blame and how others need to do better. It's a turn-off because it does not seem sincere or fair.

I think that each person deserves equal opportunities to succeed. I do not believe in bias against groups in any situation. On the other hand, I think people need to earn their way instead of just putting their hand out.

Comparing what is going now with the path toward Nazism is the wrong comparison.

We're witnessing a Marxist Revolution. What BLM is doing isn't aimed at reformation or even racial equality. It's aim is the destruction of our institutions.

Yep, a cop claiming black people wants to destroy our country.

Not surprising whatsoever. If you’re a person of color, don’t travel in devils state alone. You already know what to expect.

Here is an example of what I am talking about. This comment is from the mayors of 11 US cities and who want to establish a guaranteed income for their residents.



Getting more for doing less. Have more babies out of wedlock and get more money. And where will the money come from to provide them w/a guaranteed income? We all know where.

Here is the link for the full article:

https://www.yahoo.com/news/mlk-had-dream-guaranteed-income-090016204.html

Sacha Baron Cohen pranks right-wing event in Washington State

https://thehill.com/blogs/in-the-know/in...ashington-state

Are you kidding me with this?

Why don't you do some homework on Hitler and how he gained control of Germany.

if you look at it objectively you will know quickly the similarities between Trump and Hitler.

Yes, if Trump has his way we will indeed go down that path towards Nazi Germany.. And remember how Nazis were treated after the war,, well, if you support Trump, that's the direction you are heading in

What an appalling statement.

What gets covered by the media? Extremes.

Catholic priests who are proven as pedophiles.
BLM vandalism, theft, violence.
Police brutality and racial profiling.

The reality is what is covered by the media represents a minority.

Millions of people have taken to the streets across the world in a response to the murder of George Floyd. The vast majority of those people are people with good intentions. Their aim is to highlight what black people have lived with for generations.

The majority of police officers are people with good intentions. However, once a bad cop is in Blue. They are currently protected and are hard to be removed. That is a problem. Because they are repeat offenders. They are worst than criminals because they hide behind a badge of honor.

Pedophile priests are like bad cops. They hide behind a cross. They can hide inside the institution of the church. They are difficult to remove.


For you to generalize that BLM is aimed at the destruction of our institutions and equate the movement to a Marxist Revolution. Shows complete ignorance and understanding of history and current events.

Sounds exactly like some distorted far right programming.

No. PP can have him.

Daman,

Its not just Trump. Trump is just a symptom of a much larger problem. BOTH SIDES of the politcal spectrum both Democrats and Republicans have lost their way and gave in to extremism.

Folks need to understand, The Republican Party of today should not even be called the Republican Party, they should be called the Neo-Con party. The Republican Party I grew up with was:

Anti-War
Non-Interventionist Foreign Policy
States Rights
Small Government
Fiscally Conservative
Pro-Bill of Rights
Pro-Small Government
Pro-2nd Amendment
Pro-Balanced Budget

The Republican Party today is:

Pro War
Pro Deficit Spending
Anti-State Rights
Anti-Small Government
Anti-Bill of Rights
Interventionist Foreign Policy.

These are all extremist positions we have as a society normalized.

The Democratic Party today should not be called the Democratic Party, they should be called the Democratic-Socialist Party.

If we look at the old Democratic Party we had:

Pro-Unions
Pro-Working American
Pro-Middle Class America
Pro-Prevailing Wage
Pro-Border Control
Pro-American Manufacturing Jobs
Pro-Protecting American Jobs
Pro-2nd Amendment
Pro-Balanced Budget

The Democratic Party of today is:

Anti-Border Control
Anti-Protecting American Jobs
Anti-2nd Amendment
Anti-Private Property Rights
Pro-Excessive Taxation
Pro-Open Borders
Pro-Socialist Policy

Literally ever part of the modern Democratic Party Platform, just like the modern Republican Party Platform, is completely at odds with what these parties were founded on.


This could all end bad simply because how we have normalized extreme positions in national politics in both parties.

I think maybe it's you who needs to look at the history. This isn't about right or left leaning, it's about the movement

Also, I don't like your veiled threat about supporting President Trump.


You forget something, we own the guns and we aren't simply going to hand them over because you don't like us having them.

Come on over to my house and try to take them, Daman with the big talk.

His security detail had to rush him off the stage once people realized he was trying to lead a sing-a-long with racist lyrics. I don't think it went as he planned.

Complete ignorance... are you sure about that? What happens when the 'distorted far right programming' matches the words of a co-founding member of BLM? Hmm... what if... oh wait...

Its about a 10 min video, but to help you out the question and the answer start around the 1 minute mark...



And what history am I not understanding? BLM still holds up Treyvon Martin and Michael Brown as examples of police murder. You're right, I don't understand. I don't understand why an organization that uses a case that didn't involve the cops as evidence of police brutality and a second incident where they've lied through their teeth about would be considered credible by any semi-rationally thinking person.

Oh wait, I'm sorry. Did you guys think that virtue signalling and patting yourself on the back for it would be sufficient? Congratulations on being more 'woke' than 2 cups of extra-caffeinated coffee LOL

What's funny is you guys will latch on to some ancillary comment I make and get all up in arms over it but not a single one of you (aside from Oober) has a thing to say when I point out that black people through their positions within the institutions and by extension their strong support for the Democratic Party..

..have had the political positioning and political power to have already made these called for changes for over a decade.

In case you missed that last part I'll repeat it:

..have had the political positioning and political power to have already made these called for changes for over a decade.

Oh, and once more for the people in the back...

..have had the political positioning and political power to have already made these called for changes for over a decade.

I don’t disagree with you on the three women who started the BLM movement. Two of which are self described Marxist. However, according to their website they use Martin as an anti vigilante, not police brutality. The following is a quote from their website.

Black Lives Matter began as a call to action in response to state-sanctioned violence and anti-Black racism. Our intention from the very beginning was to connect Black people from all over the world who have a shared desire for justice to act together in their communities. The impetus for that commitment was, and still is, the rampant and deliberate violence inflicted on us by the state.

Enraged by the death of Trayvon Martin and the subsequent acquittal of his killer, George Zimmerman, and inspired by the 31-day takeover of the Florida State Capitol by POWER U and the Dream Defenders, we took to the streets. A year later, we set out together on the Black Lives Matter Freedom Ride to Ferguson, in search of justice for Mike Brown and all of those who have been torn apart by state-sanctioned violence and anti-Black racism. Forever changed, we returned home and began building the infrastructure for the Black Lives Matter Global Network, which, even in its infancy, has become a political home for many.

I skipped the vigilantes part.

Four years ago, what is now known as the Black Lives Matter Global Network began to organize. It started out as a chapter-based, member-led organization whose mission was to build local power and to intervene when violence was inflicted on Black communities by the state and vigilantes.

Your side, yes now that it's becoming clear who your side actually is, need to make up their minds.

On one hand they cry that abortion has killed millions of black babies. You know, the exact same out of wedlock ones that will get all that "free stuff" you're whining about?

So you need to huddle up with 40, tasty and the others from your tribe to figure out of you want millions more black babies or if you don't. Whether you're going to cry about them being born and draining the system or whether you're going to hang on to your anti abortion stance and welcome them with open arms and give of your tax money freely.

No matter how much you wish you could, you can't have it both ways. Or can you? Maybe starving them and having them living on the streets would be step forward towards the "final solution".

You haven't listened to a Trump speech lately have you? Yeah, trying to prevent cops from killing black people and getting monuments that honor slavery out of our town squares is total chaos!



George Wallace used to say similar BS.

You have a low opinion of blacks. Do you think them incapable of getting jobs and providing for their families? Do you think them incapable of getting an education? Why would they, or should they be nothing more than recipients of handouts in your eyes? And you call others racist?

?

What? So you believe that some girl who is calling herself the founder of BLM "organization" is representative of BLM movement?

That the millions of people that took to the streets all over the world to protest are all about Marxism? That is what you get from this?

Talk about select listening.

I never heard of that girl. My guess is not many others have as well.

Pay attention. The movement is about racial profiling and inequality under the law from policemen who have gotten into the ranks of police departments and don't get removed even after they have numerous incidents of brutality.

Police Reform is what the movement is about to most of those who are protesting.

That does not mean that there are those who infiltrate the movement with some kind of distorted agenda. Which could include a Marxist agenda.

It also includes the criminals that vandalize and loot as opportunists.

But the vast majority which includes many white people is about reform.

Stop killing black people for being black. Stop brutality towards black people just because they are black.

I am 72. It has been a practice my entire life.

It is a minority of police. But it is there. Bad cops exist. Some use their badge to steal. Some use it to exorcise their prejudice. They are difficult to root out. There is little in place to catch them. Or, if caught not to show up in another state inside another police force.

It has been going on for generations.

We've been hearing this same BS for decades now.

"Bill Clinton is gonna take your guns!"

"Obama is gonna take your guns!"

"Come and try to take my guns!"

Yet none of it ever happens. I wonder how many decades people will keep buying the same BS?

And remember, there are a lot of people who think differently than you do that have a lot of guns too.

Ah, once again you missed it. I was expounding on someone elses post, not my own thoughts. Just extrapolating on his message.

I think having them killed by the police and then protecting those who killed them is wrong. And you?

They don't wish to hear the message. Pdawg posted their message. They find it much more convenient to twist their message into what they want to hear or what they are trying to convince others to think.

Why are you talking to me? You and your cronies don't want me in your group or on your side. That's fine. I will never try to be part of something where I am not accepted for being who I am.

I will just say that since you don't want me on your "side," there is nothing left for us to discuss. I guess you can continue to make crap up about what my stances are and the like. That's fine, too. I frankly don't care anymore. You are dead to me.

To be clear I didn’t post their whole message. I was just clarifying the point about Traveon Martin. I would suggest that all of you read their website.

What We Believe

Four years ago, what is now known as the Black Lives Matter Global Network began to organize. It started out as a chapter-based, member-led organization whose mission was to build local power and to intervene when violence was inflicted on Black communities by the state and vigilantes.

In the years since, we’ve committed to struggling together and to imagining and creating a world free of anti-Blackness, where every Black person has the social, economic, and political power to thrive.

Black Lives Matter began as a call to action in response to state-sanctioned violence and anti-Black racism. Our intention from the very beginning was to connect Black people from all over the world who have a shared desire for justice to act together in their communities. The impetus for that commitment was, and still is, the rampant and deliberate violence inflicted on us by the state.

Enraged by the death of Trayvon Martin and the subsequent acquittal of his killer, George Zimmerman, and inspired by the 31-day takeover of the Florida State Capitol by POWER U and the Dream Defenders, we took to the streets. A year later, we set out together on the Black Lives Matter Freedom Ride to Ferguson, in search of justice for Mike Brown and all of those who have been torn apart by state-sanctioned violence and anti-Black racism. Forever changed, we returned home and began building the infrastructure for the Black Lives Matter Global Network, which, even in its infancy, has become a political home for many.

Ferguson helped to catalyze a movement to which we’ve all helped give life. Organizers who call this network home have ousted anti-Black politicians, won critical legislation to benefit Black lives, and changed the terms of the debate on Blackness around the world. Through movement and relationship building, we have also helped catalyze other movements and shifted culture with an eye toward the dangerous impacts of anti-Blackness.

These are the results of our collective efforts.

The Black Lives Matter Global Network is as powerful as it is because of our membership, our partners, our supporters, our staff, and you. Our continued commitment to liberation for all Black people means we are continuing the work of our ancestors and fighting for our collective freedom because it is our duty.

Every day, we recommit to healing ourselves and each other, and to co-creating alongside comrades, allies, and family a culture where each person feels seen, heard, and supported.

We acknowledge, respect, and celebrate differences and commonalities.

We work vigorously for freedom and justice for Black people and, by extension, all people.

We intentionally build and nurture a beloved community that is bonded together through a beautiful struggle that is restorative, not depleting.

We are unapologetically Black in our positioning. In affirming that Black Lives Matter, we need not qualify our position. To love and desire freedom and justice for ourselves is a prerequisite for wanting the same for others.

We see ourselves as part of the global Black family, and we are aware of the different ways we are impacted or privileged as Black people who exist in different parts of the world.

We are guided by the fact that all Black lives matter, regardless of actual or perceived sexual identity, gender identity, gender expression, economic status, ability, disability, religious beliefs or disbeliefs, immigration status, or location.

We make space for transgender brothers and sisters to participate and lead.

We are self-reflexive and do the work required to dismantle cisgender privilege and uplift Black trans folk, especially Black trans women who continue to be disproportionately impacted by trans-antagonistic violence.

We build a space that affirms Black women and is free from sexism, misogyny, and environments in which men are centered.

We practice empathy. We engage comrades with the intent to learn about and connect with their contexts.

We make our spaces family-friendly and enable parents to fully participate with their children. We dismantle the patriarchal practice that requires mothers to work “double shifts” so that they can mother in private even as they participate in public justice work.

We disrupt the Western-prescribed nuclear family structure requirement by supporting each other as extended families and “villages” that collectively care for one another, especially our children, to the degree that mothers, parents, and children are comfortable.

We foster a queer‐affirming network. When we gather, we do so with the intention of freeing ourselves from the tight grip of heteronormative thinking, or rather, the belief that all in the world are heterosexual (unless s/he or they disclose otherwise).

We cultivate an intergenerational and communal network free from ageism. We believe that all people, regardless of age, show up with the capacity to lead and learn.

We embody and practice justice, liberation, and peace in our engagements with one another.

About

#BlackLivesMatter was founded in 2013 in response to the acquittal of Trayvon Martin’s murderer. Black Lives Matter Foundation, Inc is a global organization in the US, UK, and Canada, whose mission is to eradicate white supremacy and build local power to intervene in violence inflicted on Black communities by the state and vigilantes. By combating and countering acts of violence, creating space for Black imagination and innovation, and centering Black joy, we are winning immediate improvements in our lives.

We are expansive. We are a collective of liberators who believe in an inclusive and spacious movement. We also believe that in order to win and bring as many people with us along the way, we must move beyond the narrow nationalism that is all too prevalent in Black communities. We must ensure we are building a movement that brings all of us to the front.

We affirm the lives of Black queer and trans folks, disabled folks, undocumented folks, folks with records, women, and all Black lives along the gender spectrum. Our network centers those who have been marginalized within Black liberation movements.

We are working for a world where Black lives are no longer systematically targeted for demise.

We affirm our humanity, our contributions to this society, and our resilience in the face of deadly oppression.

The call for Black lives to matter is a rallying cry for ALL Black lives striving for liberation.

bonefish, I think you should do some research on where this is all heading. Dig deep. Your feeling may change. They may not. But, this is much bigger than stopping police brutality. It's about economics and I have a problem w/how they want to make things "equitable."

DefundThePolice
May 30, 2020
Enough is enough.

Our pain, our cries, and our need to be seen and heard resonate throughout this entire country.

We demand acknowledgment and accountability for the devaluation and dehumanization of Black life at the hands of the police.

We call for radical, sustainable solutions that affirm the prosperity of Black lives.

George Floyd’s violent death was a breaking point — an all too familiar reminder that, for Black people, law enforcement doesn’t protect or save our lives. They often threaten and take them.

Right now, Minneapolis and cities across our country are on fire, and our people are hurting — the violence against Black bodies felt in the ongoing mass disobedience, all while we grapple with a pandemic that is disproportionately affecting, infecting, and killing us.

We call for an end to the systemic racism that allows this culture of corruption to go unchecked and our lives to be taken.

We call for a national defunding of police. We demand investment in our communities and the resources to ensure Black people not only survive, but thrive. If you’re with us, add your name to the petition right now and help us spread the word.

Herstory

In 2013, three radical Black organizers — Alicia Garza, Patrisse Cullors, and Opal Tometi — created a Black-centered political will and movement building project called #BlackLivesMatter. It was in response to the acquittal of Trayvon Martin’s murderer, George Zimmerman.

Photo of Alicia Garza, Patrisse Cullors, and Opal Tometi

The project is now a member-led global network of more than 40 chapters. Our members organize and build local power to intervene in violence inflicted on Black communities by the state and vigilantes.

Black Lives Matter is an ideological and political intervention in a world where Black lives are systematically and intentionally targeted for demise. It is an affirmation of Black folks’ humanity, our contributions to this society, and our resilience in the face of deadly oppression.

As organizers who work with everyday people, BLM members see and understand significant gaps in movement spaces and leadership. Black liberation movements in this country have created room, space, and leadership mostly for Black heterosexual, cisgender men — leaving women, queer and transgender people, and others either out of the movement or in the background to move the work forward with little or no recognition. As a network, we have always recognized the need to center the leadership of women and queer and trans people. To maximize our movement muscle, and to be intentional about not replicating harmful practices that excluded so many in past movements for liberation, we made a commitment to placing those at the margins closer to the center.

As #BlackLivesMatter developed throughout 2013 and 2014, we utilized it as a platform and organizing tool. Other groups, organizations, and individuals used it to amplify anti-Black racism across the country, in all the ways it showed up. Tamir Rice, Tanisha Anderson, Mya Hall, Walter Scott, Sandra Bland — these names are inherently important. The space that #BlackLivesMatter held and continues to hold helped propel the conversation around the state-sanctioned violence they experienced. We particularly highlighted the egregious ways in which Black women, specifically Black trans women, are violated. #BlackLivesMatter was developed in support of all Black lives.

In 2014, Mike Brown was murdered by Ferguson police officer Darren Wilson. It was a guttural response to be with our people, our family — in support of the brave and courageous community of Ferguson and St. Louis as they were being brutalized by law enforcement, criticized by media, tear gassed, and pepper sprayed night after night. Darnell Moore and Patrisse Cullors organized a national ride during Labor Day weekend that year. We called it the Black Life Matters Ride. In 15 days, we developed a plan of action to head to the occupied territory to support our brothers and sisters. Over 600 people gathered. We made two commitments: to support the team on the ground in St. Louis, and to go back home and do the work there. We understood Ferguson was not an aberration, but in fact, a clear point of reference for what was happening to Black communities everywhere.

When it was time for us to leave, inspired by our friends in Ferguson, organizers from 18 different cities went back home and developed Black Lives Matter chapters in their communities and towns — broadening the political will and movement building reach catalyzed by the #BlackLivesMatter project and the work on the ground in Ferguson.

It became clear that we needed to continue organizing and building Black power across the country. People were hungry to galvanize their communities to end state-sanctioned violence against Black people, the way Ferguson organizers and allies were doing. Soon we created the Black Lives Matter Global Network infrastructure. It is adaptive and decentralized, with a set of guiding principles. Our goal is to support the development of new Black leaders, as well as create a network where Black people feel empowered to determine our destinies in our communities.

The Black Lives Matter Global Network would not be recognized worldwide if it weren’t for the folks in St. Louis and Ferguson who put their bodies on the line day in and day out, and who continue to show up for Black lives.

Awe...

I don't think I misunderstood anything. Vers talked about the money demand want to give away for just living in a democracy run city. You brought up blacks being a continual tax burden unless we continue wiping them out with abortion.

I believe we're all equally capable, if we take advantage of the opportunities that are placed before us. Get educated, get job experience, and keep improving one's self is the best we to get ahead in life. If a person keeps taking the buyout, they will never get ahead.

Murder is wrong no matter who does it. If a shooting is justifiable, then it's not murder. All should be equal under the law.

Btw I agree with you fully about Brown. Even the Obama administration’s Justice Department agreed.

What I think the issue is about TM and MB is that it was determined that Martin was on top of Zimmerman and beating the snot out of him prior to Zimmerman pulling the trigger. I don't want to re-hash that whole discussion (except if someone shows me my info is wrong). Why they even got to that point is pretty much all on Zimmerman (and then the whole Stand Your Ground debate)... but portrayal of the crime in the media (down to using an old picture of TM to make it look like he was far younger and innocent than he was) created a furor based on a bunch of misleading-at-best information. I'm not defending Zimmerman, I'm accusing the talking heads of juicing the story to whip up emotions. Even worse was MB, who (again, IIRC), was confronted by police and initiated a physical altercation with the cop. I believe Brown reaching into the police car to grab the cop set the whole situation off.

IMO, continuing to reference these instances does a VERY poor job of explaining what your movement is about. To be clear (because I'm sure more than a few posters are seeing red already), I'm not arguing the goal or the message, I'm attacking the messenger. There are plenty of examples of despicable actions of cops done on minorities (specifically black males) with racism being the primary motivation. Why not use those? Why continue to use examples that have been more or less debunked? It makes BLM look like what white supremacist extremists are trying to make them look like.

I do stand corrected on the Martin part. I do recall however that he originally was included on the great Triumverate of Victims of police murder with Brown and Garner. It also took several posts of correcting posters here as they were very quick to repeat that mantra.

It's easier for them to listen to each other than to hear guys like Swish and me. BLM was formed by 3 black women for the sole express purpose of sending the message: "Stop killing our brothers, fathers and sons. "

Since then, that message has been misinterpreted, misheard, hijacked and distorted into any message but the original.

Same thing happened with Kaep's knee. His was bastardized into disrespecting the flag and our troops. Anything - anything but actually listen to the original point.

It's why I rarely contribute here like I used to. I visit other addresses for such talk; there is precious little to be gained/accomplished here.

So over it.

I think that BLM use those two instances because that is how the were started.

So much wrong with this statement I don't even know where to begin

Yep, you missed it. Here's the quote from vers I focused on in my post.



Try again.

Like I said. People need to make up their minds. Either quit whining about freebies or quit forcing young black women into having babies.

You see, most of those people know they can't afford those children. Now you can make the argument, "Well they shouldn't have gotten pregnant then." I agree with that.

The problem is what do you do after they become pregnant? You can't force them to have children and then whine about welfare.

Hopefully you get it now. But somehow I doubt it.

So they were started based on lies?

I know the answer (it's no), but that's what it seems like. If the goal is to affect change, then making it seem like your movement was founded and driven by fake outrage is a really bad way to go about it.

You just don't get it Clem. Only white Republicans understand. I mean they've lived it, right?

What do you do when you already have 6 kids and find yourself suddenly unemployed? I was in that situation once, and the job market where I was turned horrible. You can't very well kill one then. The only real difference is the law says you can kill them before they're born. Maybe you'll get it now.

My wife and I made sure we didn't have anymore, why can't anyone else?

For the record, I have never once expressed my views on abortion. Pit made that up to attack my character. He has been making things up about what I am saying rather frequently in the past few weeks.

It's an incredibly low blow to resort to making things up about what people are saying.

And now you have become the morality police.

So now that you were shown to be wrong you have changed the subject to abortion and not the correlation between welfare and abortion. About what I expected.

Well, which is it? You can't have it both or any way that suits you in any given moment.

On one hand you are saying that the founders of BLM shouldn't be believed or at the very least taken as representative of the movement as a whole, even though BLM IS an actual organization because it means different things to different people.

Then on the other hand you want to criticize people who don't buy in to or support their message.

Until very recently meaning like two months or so ago I never would even open this forum. Instinctively knowing what to expect.

And I am going back to practicing that.

Fruitless. And then it becomes upsetting. I saw a recent stat that stated if a Covid 19 vaccine were available today 33% of the population would not get the vaccine.

Kind of like masks. Although we would like to believe that people are capable of knowing better. Many are not.
Like Forrest Gump said "my Mom says stupid is as stupid does."

So my two cents is out of here. I will go back to football and topics like music.

I have fought the fight for good before. Experience can be hard teacher.

I always enjoy your posts on a variety of topics.

You brought it up, not me. Go reread your posts. I'd also like to know how you "proved" me wrong.

I think it's more starting down the path of North Korea. Sad.

I think they are not going to take peoples guns, they won't have to, they have other ways,

Look at this past February.

96% of Americans were placed on stay at home orders, All Churches were closed for Easter, The 4th of July independence day has been cancelled, largely,
Every restaurant in the USA has been closed, largely, and the same with all bars, plus all the employees related to those have been out of work,

And they didn't confiscate thousands, hundreds, or even dozens of guns, to my knowledge, more than they had been

oh, not to mention, voting has been changed, fair and free elections in the USA are now a thing in question at the least, a thing of the past, maybe.

It's easier to take over without taking your guns, so they won't,

Medicine,
Food distribution,
Toilet paper,
Online only transactions

identity, through online control by constant, controlled verifications

Thought control, through online censorship

and if you complain, theft through cyber attack, or worse, identity theft, other, who knows,

all with no gun confiscation necessary.

in 1970 you'd buy a gas guzzling car with a loud motor that spewed black smoke and could do a burnout, made of steel,
you could buy as much soda as you want with as much sugar as you asked,

chain smoke 4 packs a day, it was common, 70% of adults smoked in 1960 or something,
no dui laws, or less anyways, seat belts optional,

Cap guns, lawn darts,

today?? You can't even hear a car and a push button starts it if it's electric, in the future, the only way they will let you drive is with GPS entered destinations, With no varying off the prescribed route, Sunday drive? NO Sir! Cruising back and forth on the strip? NO Sir!

And they won't take any guns away to do it.

They made Gay marriage legal, and they didn't ask voters, well, they did and voters overwhelmingly rejected the idea A bunch of times in a bunch of locations,
so against the voters, and didn't confiscate guns to do it.

Tore down the 10 Commandments, 2004, all kinds of places.

Tearing down mentions of the Founding Fathers, today,


My point is, if you're waiting on them to come take your guns, I don't think they are coming for them.

They won't have to.

Due to a highly contagious pathogen that can kill, causes lasting lung damage in most people regardless of age, and suddenly puts some people on dialysis.




See above.

I was once told by a pastor of the Lutheran Church Missouri Synod that church isn't necessary to practice and follow your faith. This was told to me as I attended an extremely conservative Christian church and school.



Wrong.

Cities continue to search for safe and reasonable ways to celebrate our independence that is backed by sound medical advice.



Bars and indoor restaurants are turning out to be super spreading events as evidenced in new contact tracing reports.



Canada and the UK have been finding ways to provide for their workers who are out of work.

It's a shame we can't figure out something here in the Greatest Country In The World, isn't it?



Gerrymandering, laws that look like modern day poll taxes, and a sudden shift to "no vote by mail even though I've done it plenty!!!!!!" are all valid concerns.

I would love to know your thoughts on these subjects.



Huh?

Please source these statements.
----------

Forget it. I'm tired of debating people who willfully ignore facts. I'm tired of people who want to keep life worse off for minorities.

THROW and anyone else who subscribes to these ideas, please join us in the 20th century. Get out of the way of progress that can help every single American.

He showed up, that's about all it takes.

Just like most lib lies. Declare a win, then believe your own lie.

They think they win in their own mind and then run. Jesse Lee Peterson talks to one of the founders of BLM.

I'm tired of you, too. It was yourself you were referring to, no? You seem to be primarily debating with yourself and not actually processing anything from anyone else.

We're in the 21st century, Sherlock. Might want to check your "facts" some more.

I don't want to keep life worse off for minorities. I want minorities to stop thinking of themselves as victims. Control the things they can control, first. The best way to stop being victims is to stop acting like you are all the time. Quit indoctrinating people that they're victims and that they are going to be treated unfairly from birth. Stop trying to make everything that goes wrong with a minority as solely being because they are a minority.

Link

Take some damn responsibilty.

Stop telling people they can't possibly understand while acting like you understand other people better than they understand themselves.

Don't want to be treated different because "you're" Black, while insisting that being black makes "you" different. White Pride, bad. Black Pride, good. What the hell is there in the skin color you were born with to be proud about? Lives matter. Only racists care what color they are.

Am I trying to say that there aren't racists and bad things don't happen? Of course not. There are things that need to be fixed.

Unfortunately, minorities don't seem to realize how racist they are and that they contribute to the problems.

I wonder how many of this country's problems stem from pride....

Here's the thing, Bull. I'm a white dude and in order for me to learn about the experience of someone else, I listen to the source.

You don't do this. You go off on minorities by telling them to "act better because you're furthering the divide". I've been in multiple positions in my own life where I learned from people of a very different background than myself, and each time successful learning happened because I let another group educate me. Instead you're taking a paternal attitude while trying to be some hack-job Dr. King.



Ah, you turned on your tiki torch tonight!

Just an FYI bro, it's the 21st Century.

As I have said, I agree with the actual BLM original message. Yes, police brutality is a problem. Blacks seem to be on the receiving end more often than others, but other races are brutalized or killed by bad cops too. Something needs to be done about that.

However, the BLM movement has been hijacked by radical left wing extremists, the very same extremists Barrack Obama warned the Democratic Party about they need not listen to:



If you won't listen to me, will you listen to Obama?

The same "radical left elements" of the Democratic Party Obama is talking about are the ones who have hijacked BLM and their movement, and are using it as a means to wrought chaos and destruction on this great nation. BLM and their message is being suppressed by these people.

When is the good people in BLM going to stand up and stop these people from destroying monuments, destroying federal property, destroying small business and homes, defacing veteran memorials? I agree the Confederate Monuments belong in a museum but they shouldn't be destroyed.

The tragedy of all this is BLM's message is being lost and its being replaced with one of violence.

Remember what Martin Luther King Jr. told us:



I support BLM and their message on police brutality, but they have to self police the violent actors out of their ranks...they are killing the movements original mission.

The radical left will lead us right down the road of socialism if we allow it, and all socialist countries eventually resort to some form of communism its inevitable, the its only way a socialist society can evolve.

BLM needs to get the radical left out of their movement so they can actually get their message to resonate in every home in America, right now...folks watching from home all they are seeing is violence, destruction, etc...and their message is being lost...

You don't listen to hardly anyone. You didn't let another group educate you, you let them indoctrinate you. Now you see minorities as the eternal victims that need your super special help.

I'm not going off on minorities, I do go off on uppity white dudes who think they should be the voice for minorities.

Part of equality is calling people on their BS. Not patting them on the head and saying everything is okay while treating them like they are lesser and you're their great white champion.

I want them to do better because I know they are capable. And I think it would actually help them be treated as the equals they are.

I'm sorry that I try to treat everyone as equals instead of helpless victims.

I'm not going to give them gold stars like they are children no matter what they do. No accountability is not how you treat an equal.

I'm not trying to be Dr. King. You're the one who seems to be trying to take up a similar mantle. You come off as more of an arrogant white knight on a high horse.

I've been pointing out that people aren't the MLK-like civil rights leaders they seem to think they are. I've said the movement could use one. I've never claimed or tried to be one.

If by tiki torch you mean shining a light on hypocrisy and double standards, I guess you've used worse imagery. If you're trying to say that I'm a racist, your personal mixture of pride and self-loathing might be showing.

He was culturally appropriating Polynesians.

That didn't go unnoticed.

400 years ago white people brought black people over here and enslaved them. And sold them. And treated them as less than human. For 250 years. While white men built the country and created its laws and its systems of government. While 10, 15 generations of white families got to grow and flourish and make choices that could make their lives better.

And then 150 years ago white people "freed" black people from slavery. But then angry white people created laws that made it impossible for them to vote. Or to own land. Or to have the same rights as white people. And even erected monuments glorifying people who actively had fought to keep them enslaved. All while another 5, 10 generations of white families got to grow and accumulate wealth and gain land and get an education.

And then 60 years ago we made it "legal" for black people to vote, and to be "free" from discrimination. But angry white people still fought to keep schools segregated. And closed off neighborhoods to white people only. And made it harder for black people to get bank loans, or get quality education or health care, or to (gasp) marry a white person. All while another 2-3 generations of white families got to grow and pass their wealth down to their children and their children's children.

And then we entered an age where we had the technology to make PUBLIC the things that were already happening in private-- the beatings, the stop and frisk laws, the unequal distribution of justice, the police brutality (police began in America as slave patrols designed to catch runaway slaves). And only now, after 400+ years and 20+ generations of a white head start, are we STARTING to truly have a dialog about what it means to be black.

White privilege doesn't mean you haven't suffered or fought or worked hard. It doesn't mean white people are responsible for the sins of our ancestors. It doesn’t mean you can’t be proud of who you are. But it DOES mean that we need to acknowledge that the system our ancestors created is built FOR white people. It DOES mean that we aren't disadvantaged because of the color of our skin and it DOES mean that we owe it to our neighbors-- of all colors-- to acknowledge that and work to make our world more equitable.

My family was still in Prussia during all that except for the last 13 years. The settled in Dayton oh, and fought for the north. They didnt live in the reconstructed south, and didnt like jim crow laws. I'll consider myself absolved.

no one personally accused you of anything.

your self-absolution is superfluous, and unrelated to the message behind Pit's post.

I totally support Black Lives matter, This 15 minutes.

I don't support the overthrow or hatred of the United States of America as founded, in any way though.

After reading that long winded explanation after "what we believe" posted by Pdawg, I totally see the good,

If we can replace the word black, with the word white, everywhere in the post then we can have equality, however if we can't, then by definition it is putting one... in front of another, one group.... ahead of another group, and to do so puts the 2nd group behind,
which is not equality.

As long as we can replace the word, black, or white, with Hispanic, everywhere in the post, then we can have equality too, however if we can't, then by definition it is putting one... in front of another, one group.... ahead of another group, and to do so puts the 2nd group behind,
which is not equality.

In my heart, and thoughts right now, We need black lives matter, (but not the socialist, facist, stuff it's become)
because we need Justice, equality, and opportunity for my beloved friends, my black children,

Oh, and we dang sure need nuclear families, there is nothing, no better environment for a child than their own, natural birth parented, married between one man and one woman, father and mother, environment for a child to grow up in.

And we need to understand, the police, have helped thousands of millions of people throughout time, and are in place, ordained as an instution, as an instrument for righteousness.

Love righteousness and walk humbly before God.

At this time right now, I feel so much support for Black Lives Matter, the righteous part of it, not the part, not the portion that wants to overthrow America, but for the love of black people and opportunity and lifting.

I'm for lifting people up, not for holding people down and that goes for all people.

Oh, and criminal behavior, no excuse for it, I'm not for excusing it.

Black lives matter! I love my friends!

... But you know what really matters? The Lord God Almighty! If people would just shut up, and listen to what God says,
well these perilous end times may be a burden we have to go through but we would all get through them a little better.
ermm

So that means it's fine to pretend none of this happened? Nobody said you owed anyone anything with the exception of admitting the history of this country. When and if you ever do, it's easy to see the oppression inflicted on the black race and how it certainly didn't stop with the abolishment of slavery.

It's not always that easy, Sometimes, but not always,

I've been successful and unsuccessful, and maybe God placed me there to gain an understanding,

and all I want to say is sometimes, doing the right thing isn't enough, sometimes, successful people don't understand, (not all the time, some of em do), that everyone I know who was successful took advantage of some opportunity, and sometimes for unsuccessful people the opportunity just isn't there,

and it's not a matter of responsibility always, not always, sometimes, but sometimes it's just not possible, and that is disheartening.

We could be putting all of this energy to something good, not negative. Hmmm.

Not personally, but I always get included into a certain group due to the color of my skin. It's damn near racist.

Hmm.
Is it in any way possible to see the opportunity for growth and advancement provided by this country, onto the black race and how it certainly didn't stop with the abolishment of slavery.

Most certainly.

I have said many times that the history of this country should be thoroughly taught, good and bad. This is one of the reasons we shouldn't be tearing down monuments and statues. It should be taught without spin or bias, so if nothing else, we can always see how far we've come as a people.

I have also said for some time now that the democrats are pushing people to destroy their history, so they can whitewash it (pun intended) from history.

Yeah, the fact Germany doesn't have any statues of Hitler standing in their nation has made them forget all about WW2. Weak.

Not to nitpick, but WW2 is currently still recent enough that it is taught in schools. I notice we seem to start to drop off what is taught is it gets older, and some of it is important.

I can tell you even 30+ years ago when I was in school, the whole slavery era was just a couple days or week at most of coverage, yet it's a huge part of our history.

And, while my memory from that long ago is quite faded, I seem to recall it was more about the perspective of Lincoln's Presidency, more so than about slavery.

Actually, I recall more coverage of the Revolutionary war than the Civil War for some reason.

Come on now Florida. There are documentaries on the Civil war being made today. They are everywhere for anyone willing to look. I just watched a three part documentary on the History Channel breaking down the Civil war a few weeks ago. Yes, a new one.

Now can you tell me what a statue of a Civil War general who killed thousands of America troops in the middle of a town square "teaches people" about the Civil War?

Are you just playing devil's advocate right now?

You say that like I disagree with it.

The problem is it wasn't really built for all white people. It was built for rich people who happened to be white.

Before slavery there was indentured servitude of Europeans and persons of color. Unfortunately, as the need of labor increased, those rich people came to the conclusion that slavery would be more profitable. Not for all white people, but for those in power who had large tracts of land and familial wealth.

Only ~25% of whites in the South were slave owners link . That means greater than 75% of whites in the US weren't. Yet, whites constantly get lumped all together by skin color ignoring the multitude of cultural and economic differences.

It's not really so much of a white head start as a rich head start. Most white people have more in common with minorities economically/systematically than they do with rich, white people.

The system isn't designed to keep minorities down. It's designed to keep rich people rich.

It screws over poor white people, too. They don't even get the benefits of affirmative action.

Yes, many African American's families didn't start out with any wealth. It's hard to grow it if you don't have any to start. It works that way for poor white families, too.

Still wealth can't just pop out from nowhere. You have to keep growing and tending it. Just giving wealth to people doesn't work as it bleeds away if they don't know how to manage it.

How do we change the focus from take from the white and give to the black, to "take from" the rich exploiters and give to the exploited? How do we stop the exploitation?

Dividing on racial lines disguises the problems. The rich get richer. Normal people end up fighting amongst themselves for the wrong reasons. They're all being exploited by rich politicians/power brokers on both sides.

Still trying to equate that one, huh?

The statues you guys now have problems with were erected by democrats. They are the ones that stole the citizenship of an entire group of people, after a bloody war was fought to end the practice of slavery. They've kept coming back to the same ways they've always displayed. I think that's very important to history. It shows they never changed, and still haven't.

Germany is their own country and can do as they like with their history.

So let me get this straight. First you bring up who erected the statues not what they actually represent. Slavery. So then does that mean you agree with the Democrats who erected them? See how that works?

See, I understand that it doesn't matter who erected them to see that they're wrong.

And you're right. Germany is their own country. Yet they are 100% proof that you don't need to glorify military criminals to remember history.

and while I know that Auschwitz isn't in Germany, the Jews aren't taking a wrecking ball to all the old concentration camps precisely because they understand that if you remove those examples of atrocity people will forget.

So no statues of Hitler, right? How about Hitlers generals?

Oh that's right. Instead of erecting statues of them they excecuted them.

Using your example, maybe we should take a vote among black people if these statues should remain? I mean since it was you who brought up the wishes of the victims.

...so we're lumping Teddy Roosevelt with Hitler and Nazis now?

I'm actually on board with removing monuments. Divisive symbols in public spaces are frequently problematic. 'How do we alternatively remember the associated history?' is my question. Objectively preferably. Not the "romanticized" versions that all too often seem to end up in the "history" books or fall from the lips of amateur historians.

I think you misunderstood me or my intent.

Yes, the information is out there. But as far as teaching, it seems our school system sticks more with recent history, and is slowly removing some of the most important parts of our history.

There can be 1,000 Civil war documentaries, but if someone has no interest in that type of thing, they aren't going to watch them. But I feel it is very important for all generations to be taught at least the basics of Civil War, so even if they never seek more information, they at least have a nugget inside that may one day light up when the need arises.

Hiding all our history away, and removing it from our teaching and history books will not serve us well in the future.

Now don't take that last statement as meaning I think all the statues should be left alone, it has nothing to do with events that are happening now, or the statues. I am talking about the information itself.

On an off tangent of the above, for as great a resource as the internet is, it has also created a lack of need to remember things, as well as created a lot of mis-information.

Sorry if I misunderstood you or BD. You just see it used as an excuse so often that somehow removing civil war memorials will erase history.

And BD, there will always be fringes on both sides that advocate crazy things that the mainstream of their movement or party would never endorse. They tend to be the exception, not the rule in both directions.

I listen to people who present ideas in good faith, are willing to consider they're wrong, and drops the dog whistle from their mouth. That existed here from 2011-2016. These days? It's hard to find voices willingly to publicly voice their displeasure.



Because you know my life, right?

Have you spent 14 weeks on a remote shore of the Bering Sea immersing yourself in the culture of an Alaska Native group?

Have you spent time serving in the inner-city through tutoring?

Have you worked around a super diverse workforce where you coworkers come from thousand of miles all over the world from various religious and cultural background?

When was the last time you actually listened to someone who doesn't share your "you're too divisive! Protest like Dr. King even though he embraced the same stuff at BLM!" attitude? I haven't witnessed it here in the past month and a half.

There have been many attempts asking you to listen. You don't. You explain minority posters away essentially telling them "no, you're wrong. They are too divisive. Listen to me, a white man, tell minorities how they can act to receive rights in a way that will make everyone happy."



If you bothered to listen to me the last month and a half, you would notice that I make constant mention that the majority should step back and follow the lead of those who wish to have liberation.

I get out of the way. My mission is to raise critical points to people similar to me. This involves raising critical points that lack sanitation to the majority.

Obviously it works. The amount of effort you've been trying to explain me away for the last month shows me that you're at least thinking about what I'm saying. Do I expect to change your mind, nope.

Maybe one day all of this will convalesce and you'll realize the hill your standing on is the wrong one. You wouldn't be the first to admit you were wrong, either.



I learn from those who face the very challenges you're trying to solve from an outsiders perspective. All I share is what I learn from them. I'm not the poster on this board who claimed he's done more for black Americans than the very black Americans on this very forum.



Projection is a fun thing. I suggest you change the movie you're showing, though.



Again, another paternal argument. Who taught you that it's okay to tell minorities how to act?



You're okay trying to parent black Americans by telling them "change your methods! These methods sow too much division!"

.

One of us has continually invoked speeches from MLK the past month and a half. Hint: It's not me.



Were you in this crowd in Charlottesville?

Why is it so many think that, "Well I'm not a racist" is enough? We've been hearing that for decades now and we still see inequality. When are they going to learn that until and unless the white race takes an active role in helping change things, nothing will change?

The lack of that basic understanding leads to dumb things like this being said.

It does erase history. Just not the history you think. It's an erasure of the history of the democrat party, who stayed fully in control of the south, from just after reconstruction, until 1984.

Also, I have seen several times that people have called confederate soldiers "traitors" on this board. They were all given pardons for their rebellion, in an attempt to heal the country after the war, with the exception of jefferson davis, and a few tried for war crimes. I've seen davis' cell in ft monroe, va, and got to see history. It was a nice dark cell, just at the waterline in the Chesapeake bay. They kept him on a man made island for the rest of his life.

I’ve been here for those years. They weren’t that good. I was called a racist just for my support of Bush. Now we have you doing that same crap. Bull is speaking up for his point of view. You know nothing about him yet you feel the need to ask him If he was at Charlottesville. You pulled something similar to Dave. You’re no better than anybody else. Btw I see you are still going after 40 about his comments on leaving. I find that rich since you made such a big deal about leaving this board not all that long ago. I even remember you starting a thread about it.

Don't pay any attention to Rocket, he's a self described socialist. You can't help people like that. Just look at his signature, I mean come on.

I don't know your whole life, but you pat yourself on the back about it enough that I've picked up the broad strokes.

Why, yes, yes, I have worked with a super diverse work force. I was stationed in Japan and worked with the Japanese, had Nigerian, Filipino, Hispanic, African American, and a plethora of other background friends and "co-workers." I "explored" much of the western Pacific and was exposed to many different cultures.

No, I haven't worked with the very specific group of Alaskan Natives. I did have family that lived up near Anchorage. I imagine many of their problems are economically related, though. "Rich" companies and corporate interests encroaching on "their" lands.

No, my service didn't take the path of tutoring in inner cities. In my naivete, I decided to join the military shortly post-9/11 with the misguided/simplistic belief I could help prevent another such terrorist act and was sent half away around the world, far away from family and friends to spend months at a time stuck in metal boxes in the middle of the ocean, sleeping in what they literally call a coffin rack. Back then I still bought into the "fact" that "we" were "promoting freedom and democracy" around the world.

Since getting back I've gotten my degree (Summa [censored] Laude, BBA in Business Management, Kent State) with the idea in mind that everything is business and I could still figure out the best way to be of service later. Unfortunately, the gist of business seems to be about helping the rich get richer. How can we spend less and make more profits?

I've looked into the Peace Corps and was close to applying to go to Senegal working in sustainable local agriculture when the Covid craziness kicked off.








I listen, the problem is what they keep saying doesn't add up. Other people keep making it about black and white and only black and white. Us and them/you. Minorities and white. It's counterproductive. Treat us the same, but you have to treat us special. You have to say black lives, you can't say all lives as if all doesn't include black and they have to be specially singled out. Get rid of your divisive symbols, but we're going to keep using our divisive symbol. They're peaceful protests, but fight is the verb we use to describe them.



That's just it. You constantly talk for them, yet somehow consider that getting out of the way. I've asked minorities for feedback and input, but they seem mostly content to let their "white knight" carry their torch for them.

For something to coalesce, the pieces have to fit together. I wish it would convalesce and the broken, mismatched, counterproductive pieces would "heal" into a functioning whole.



There you go again implying that only minorities face challenges. There you go implying white people have to be outsiders. Police brutality isn't just a racial issue no matter how many times people try to make it one. Justice and equality aren't just black issues, they're "all issues" despite how offensive minorities perversely find the idea.



You're right. I shouldn't suggest anything to anyone that has a different skin color than I do. Clearly trying to talk with minorities is something a white person should never do. Clearly, I'm the one reinforcing racial divisions. (This is sarcasm for those needing an explicit written indication) You can't tell me what to do, you're white and I'm black. You can't understand.

Sorry fellow human being, you must be right, humans couldn't possibly have anything in common if they have different color skin. Empathy only can be applied to people that look like you. (More sarcasm)

Actions can either support goals or not. Some of the actions that are being taken seem to be counterproductive to the alleged goals. Should I stay quiet while sticking my thumb up giving the message that it's not entirely working, but keep doing it anyway?

I quoted MLK once. It was a good speech. He reached people in his day. I hoped the words could do it again.

I'm not trying to be him. I know my limitations. I'm lousy at changing hearts and minds. He was amongst the best.




Are you just trying to be offensive here? I'm not sure what your reasoning was. I can think of plenty of stupid, offensive questions to ask in return, but I'll refrain despite the temptation.

It's because many on their side like to play the professional victim card and use excuses as to why they're not getting ahead. Race being one of them.

I’ll pray for you in your decent.

I know what's right and what's wrong can't possibly overcome your hate and political leanings. I don't really care who or what party is responsible for them. Monuments to the protectors of slavery is wrong. Memorializing those responsible for forming a military force that killed so many U.S. troops is wrong.



I understand you can't possibly comprehend that have been giving a pardon for being a traitor doesn't actually make you any less of a traitor. The fact you won't be punished for your crimes doesn't mean you didn't commit them.

Imagine the most caustic ,hate filled. vicious anti Trump and repub guy is telling you to get over your hate.. man that is some large nads. Just think about if it goes their way they will be governed by WARLORDS wielding AR15,s instead of Mayors. smh

No, we should have imprisoned about 35% of the population of the country for life. Maybe just executed them to get it over with. How about abolishing the democrat party? We could have done like the British and sent them all to their own prison colony, but unfortunately, Australia was already British. I love how you never present solutions.

Daman,

Its not just Trump. Trump is just a symptom of a much larger problem. BOTH SIDES of the politcal spectrum both Democrats and Republicans have lost their way and gave in to extremism.

Folks need to understand, The Republican Party of today should not even be called the Republican Party, they should be called the Neo-Con party. The Republican Party I grew up with was:

Anti-War
Non-Interventionist Foreign Policy
States Rights
Small Government
Fiscally Conservative
Pro-Bill of Rights
Pro-Small Government
Pro-2nd Amendment
Pro-Balanced Budget

The Republican Party today is:

Pro War
Pro Deficit Spending
Anti-State Rights
Anti-Small Government
Anti-Bill of Rights
Interventionist Foreign Policy.

These are all extremist positions we have as a society normalized.

The Democratic Party today should not be called the Democratic Party, they should be called the Democratic-Socialist Party.

If we look at the old Democratic Party we had:

Pro-Unions
Pro-Working American
Pro-Middle Class America
Pro-Prevailing Wage
Pro-Border Control
Pro-American Manufacturing Jobs
Pro-Protecting American Jobs
Pro-2nd Amendment
Pro-Balanced Budget

The Democratic Party of today is:

Anti-Border Control
Anti-Protecting American Jobs
Anti-2nd Amendment
Anti-Private Property Rights
Pro-Excessive Taxation
Pro-Open Borders
Pro-Socialist Policy

Literally ever part of the modern Democratic Party Platform, just like the modern Republican Party Platform, is completely at odds with what these parties were founded on.


This could all end bad simply because how we have normalized extreme positions in national politics in both parties. [/quote

Say what you want, but the larger problem is Trump.. Who wants to shut down the free press.. Trump,,,,, Hitler did the same thing..

Who sews distrust in Intellegence Agencies? Trump.. Hitler did that.

Who sees boogy men at every turn? Trump,,,Hitler did that.

Start with these. Keep looking for more things Hitler and Trump had in common.

And you perpetuate keeping the current problems.

I see. You actually think removing statues will cure racism. At least you find yourself a deep thinker.

I think it's one of many steps needed to address racial issues. There isn't some magic bullet miracle fix. But perpetuating racist symbols sure doesn't help. And all of your excuses not to address those issues won't solve anything either.

Here is the deal, Mr. Expert of all racial and gun rights. If it isn't called out, it's going to happen.

If you steal a whole salami from the butcher, they are going to notice that and do something about it. If the shop help steals it 4 slices at a time, it's never missed.

That's worth about as much as the whole "They're gonna take my guns" BS I've heard ever since Bill Clinton ran for president back in 1992.

After almost three decades of telling the same lie I would have thought ya'll would have come up with a new one by now.

Daman,

Trump isn't the larger problem.

BOTH SIDES and BOTH PARTIES have accepted and normalized extremist positions in politics and folks wonder why the news media and the country is what it is now?

Its only a matter of time before the Democrats (if they get their way) put in to office a modern day Joseph Stalin/Mao Zedong who will butcher millions of Americans during their reign.

Its also only a matter of time before the Republicans(if they get their way) elect a Hiter/Mussolini type into power that will cost us just as many lives in useless crusades and wars.

Trump hasn't even done anything really.

Im telling you though, there is NO WAY out of this until both party bases admit to themselves that these radical left and right positions we have normalized are NOT the way forward. If we continue down this road its only a matter of time until we end up with some far left or far right wacko that is going to systematically opress all of us.

The first step to fixing it is acknowledging it exists, but the majority of both sides refuse and instead blame Trump or Biden, or Bernie or Warren or whomever else when in reality none of those idiots would hold an office or even have a vote if the population didn't agree to normalize such radical left and right postions.

No need to come up with a new one. I would have thought you would have smartened up by now. You aren't getting any younger.

I'm not getting any younger. That's why I'm smart enough to stop believing the same lie people have been telling for almost 20 years.

Yet you believe the lies dems tell minorities. The same issues minorities have today go back how many decades?

Exactly. It's the fabled war on poverty. Since he's older he should know it doesn't work.

He thinks big government and throwing more money at the issues will fix them. It's the Democrat way. Pitts way.

You realize the democratic party does almost all of those things too when somebody doesn't agree with their ideology?

Except attack the media.. I mean why would you attack something that is 95% supportive of your propaganda.

If you expect me to try and say both parties don't lie, that's not going to happen. But let me ask you something. Which party is currently fighting for change to help minorities and which party is fighting against it?

Who is Trump trying to cater to in order to give a stiffer sentences for destroying confederate monuments than the average sentence for rape in our country? Why is Trump claiming he will refuse to sign a defense strictly on the basis that bill that contains changing the name of confederate officers from military bases?



The bill has bipartisan support.

Now you can say that the Democrats also lie. Yet what you can't say is it's not a lack of effort to help minorities. It's the stonewalling by Republicans that stop a lot of it.

And how does anything you said change the truth about my comments? It doesn't. What I'm really surprised by is you didn't catch me error. You're usually always willing and able to do that. It's been almost 30 years the GOP has been telling the lie, "They gonna take my guns!", not almost 20 years. But keep making excuses for it by saying "But the Democrats!"

It's hilarious that you are joining in on attacking the media like Trump does. But you know what you're doing. If you attack the free press enough to get people to no longer believe anything they say, the truth no longer matters. And look at what it allows people like Trump to get away with.

Great job!

Seems to me that 4.8 million jobs last month will help a lot more than throwing more money at civil service projects.

As for the lies in the media, maybe if the media started reporting truth over spin, they'd help themselves.

Maybe you should just subtract that from the 40 million we lost in the past few months before you start crowing. You do understand the concept of net loss, right?

And you talk about spin?

Did you expect them all back at once? They weren't all lost at once. Can't stand the sight of a recovery starting, huh?

Oh, you mean the recovery of how states are now closing a lot of those businesses back down because they rushed reopening? That recovery?

Once again you refused to admit we are not in good shape. Once again you refuse to look big picture and only wish to see things through your own microscope.

I thought you said you stopped believing the same lies. Neither party is fighting for change to help minorities. They're "fighting" for votes, and thus personal wealth and power for themselves.

If the appearance of putting up a fight for something will win your vote, a politician will put on a heck of a show. They play to there bases, while making minimal actual changes, and certainly none that threaten their personal bottom lines.

If you wish to ignore the actual changes being implemented in the cities across our nations and the fight that the GOP senate is putting up to prevent these changes on a nationwide level, that's on you. The evidence is there for all to see.

Republicans are just playing to different people. People scared that angry mobs are trying to destroy things they've spent their lives trying to build.

Democrats play to fears of minorities that Republicans/the "Government"/White men are trying to keep them down.

It's just fear mongering to get votes on both sides. Keep the people "fearing"/hating each other and they don't notice the organizers/politicians setting them at each other's necks.

It's like a couple of pit bulls in a dogfighting ring with a Republican holding one leash and a Democrat the other. These handlers don't care about the people in the ring just the winning and the prizes that go with it.

They'll treat the "pets" nice and feed them scraps (your crowed about changes) at times to keep them ready, but it's really just so they can release them for the "fight" at the polls.

I tend to agree with the overall assessment. And to see people fully invested to parties and politicians on both sides of the aisle as if they are in their corner is funny to see.

A puppeteer analogy comes to mind.

Thanks for proving the point that you are actually ignoring the changes that are taking place. Words are what you are speaking about. Yet actions are taking place. Those aren't the same thing.

To the point that each side plays to their voting base, we agree. What we seem to disagree on is how talking up your base and making changes that impact your base are two different things.