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Posted By: bonefish Washington's football team. - 07/02/20 10:07 PM

Race.

I am not going to get to deep in what I believe.

Obviously race relations and sensitivity to racial equality is front and center since George Floyd was suffocated.

Well Dan Snyder has never felt it necessary to change the name of his team.

Confederate statues have been torn down. Mississippi has changed it's flag.

Yet Native American's and their cultures go unheeded and ignored.

Well thankfully that may change:
https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/redsk...eral-officials/

Money talks. When faced with financial pressure things all of sudden feel different for Dan Snyder.
Posted By: Milk Man Re: Washington's football team. - 07/03/20 03:06 AM

Posted By: RocketOptimist Re: Washington's football team. - 07/03/20 03:23 AM
If Snyder was smart, he'd do what Florida State University has done for years!

He won't though. At least the Dolans finally banished Wahoo.
Posted By: Milk Man Re: Washington's football team. - 07/03/20 03:33 AM
Originally Posted By: RocketOptimist
At least the Dolans finally banished Wahoo.


The only reason the Dolan family obliged was b/c of MLB dangling the All-Star game in front of them. Money was the driving factor, not a moral revelation.

Snyder will oblige as well, b/c in the end, cash is king.
Posted By: tastybrownies Re: Washington's football team. - 07/03/20 05:12 AM
That's also because the Dolans are cowards.
Posted By: PerfectSpiral Re: Washington's football team. - 07/03/20 10:14 AM
Originally Posted By: tastybrownies
That's also because the Dolans are cowards.


rofl yeah that’s it. rofl Not that you are a bit upset about losing your racist symbols. rofl
Posted By: bonefish Re: Washington's football team. - 07/03/20 11:25 AM

So do you think it a good idea to keep the name ?

Defining a team by a skin color?

Posted By: HotBYoungTurk Re: Washington's football team. - 07/03/20 11:56 AM
Originally Posted By: RocketOptimist
If Snyder was smart, he'd do what Florida State University has done for years!

He won't though. At least the Dolans finally banished Wahoo.


Doing this still won't help bc it's the name in itself.

Seminoles (name of a tribe) vs. Redskins (slang term for native americans with derogatory connotation).

Either change the name to something thats related to native americans and not offensive, or completely revamp everything and go in a different direction.
Posted By: Versatile Dog Re: Washington's football team. - 07/03/20 12:16 PM
For decades, I have said that you can honor Native Americans w/a team name rather than resort to a derogatory name such as the Redskins or a logo like Chief Wahoo.
Posted By: PitDAWG Re: Washington's football team. - 07/03/20 02:57 PM
Originally Posted By: tastybrownies
That's also because the Dolans are cowards.


It's a shame when people aren't brave enough to stand up and be racists.
Posted By: Ballpeen Re: Washington's football team. - 07/03/20 03:03 PM
Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog
For decades, I have said that you can honor Native Americans w/a team name rather than resort to a derogatory name such as the Redskins or a logo like Chief Wahoo.




To me it is just a logo. My hope is we get past all of this.

I never viewed Uncle Ben's rice as something offensive. It's just good rice products.

Wahoo, he was a cartoon character.

Notre Dame, the Fighting Irish. My DNA tests show I am around 85% Irish. Little leprechaun with fists curled and wearing a green derby hat. That doesn't bother me. I mean who do you see walking around in a green derby? I understand that it is a logo.

I see it as honoring people, not putting them down.

Redskins, I can maybe buy in to the argument at bit, but really, who is going to name their team after a dirty redskin?

And I don't say that with malice. I am just saying it doesn't make sense. I don't know who named the team, but if they didn't like natives, I doubt they would have named the team as such.

Hey, I have a great great grandmother who was a full blooded Blackhawk. I am the last in line who can apply for tribal recognition with 1/16 blood. My cousin's Brenda and Joe have and are in the Tribe. If it makes you feel better, maybe I will as well.

Posted By: PitDAWG Re: Washington's football team. - 07/03/20 03:41 PM
Well we are all starting to figure out that things only matter by the way you see it. wink
Posted By: jfanent Re: Washington's football team. - 07/03/20 03:41 PM
Quote:
Hey, I have a great great grandmother who was a full blooded Blackhawk. I am the last in line who can apply for tribal recognition with 1/16 blood. My cousin's Brenda and Joe have and are in the Tribe. If it makes you feel better, maybe I will as well.


You should. Then you can come here like Rocket and preach that no one is qualified to debate you. smile
Posted By: bonefish Re: Washington's football team. - 07/03/20 03:45 PM

The point is many native people find the name offensive.

Not much different then Black people finding the confederate flag offensive.

For you it is a logo. It means more than that to others.

They changed the name of the Washington Bullets.
In November 1995, owner Abe Pollin announced he was changing the team's nickname, because Bullets had acquired violent overtones that had made him increasingly uncomfortable over the years, particularly given the high homicide and crime rate in the early 1990s in Washington, D.C.

If a team name was changed for that reason. Then I don't see why changing a team name from anyskins is such a big deal.
Posted By: Ballpeen Re: Washington's football team. - 07/03/20 04:10 PM
Originally Posted By: jfanent
Quote:
Hey, I have a great great grandmother who was a full blooded Blackhawk. I am the last in line who can apply for tribal recognition with 1/16 blood. My cousin's Brenda and Joe have and are in the Tribe. If it makes you feel better, maybe I will as well.


You should. Then you can come here like Rocket and preach that no one is qualified to debate you. smile



That's a idea!
Posted By: MemphisBrownie Re: Washington's football team. - 07/03/20 04:16 PM
j/c:

The Cleveland Indians are probably next on the list. Then perhaps the Chiefs, Braves, etc.
Posted By: Ballpeen Re: Washington's football team. - 07/03/20 04:16 PM
Originally Posted By: bonefish

The point is many native people find the name offensive.

Not much different then Black people finding the confederate flag offensive.

For you it is a logo. It means more than that to others.

They changed the name of the Washington Bullets.
In November 1995, owner Abe Pollin announced he was changing the team's nickname, because Bullets had acquired violent overtones that had made him increasingly uncomfortable over the years, particularly given the high homicide and crime rate in the early 1990s in Washington, D.C.

If a team name was changed for that reason. Then I don't see why changing a team name from anyskins is such a big deal.





I suppose the Browns could be viewed as offensive by some. Are we willing to change that name?


It's a color some people hold.
Posted By: PitDAWG Re: Washington's football team. - 07/03/20 04:21 PM
Yeah, naming a team after a man is so offensive. Of course you'll have extreme factions that reach past the point of common sense. That exists on both sides. But sometimes it helps when we look beyond ourselves and try to understand how people who see things differently than we do feel about things.
Posted By: bonefish Re: Washington's football team. - 07/03/20 04:29 PM

Those names are not the same thing obviously.

The Braves have done a number of things to not be offensive. They ended chief-naka-homa etc.

Posted By: bonefish Re: Washington's football team. - 07/03/20 04:31 PM

Come on. You are stretching this.

They are not the Brownskins.

You know who they were named after.

this is not difficult.
Posted By: MemphisBrownie Re: Washington's football team. - 07/03/20 04:37 PM
Originally Posted By: bonefish

Those names are not the same thing obviously.

The Braves have done a number of things to not be offensive. They ended chief-naka-homa etc.



I agree w/you. They are not as offensive as Redskins. However, sometimes that doesn't matter.
Posted By: RocketOptimist Re: Washington's football team. - 07/03/20 04:45 PM
Originally Posted By: HotBYoungTurk
Originally Posted By: RocketOptimist
If Snyder was smart, he'd do what Florida State University has done for years!

He won't though. At least the Dolans finally banished Wahoo.


Doing this still won't help bc it's the name in itself.

Seminoles (name of a tribe) vs. Redskins (slang term for native americans with derogatory connotation).

Either change the name to something thats related to native americans and not offensive, or completely revamp everything and go in a different direction.


Sorry, forgot to mention I do believe the name should be changed as well.

Historical records show the Piscataway, Pamunkey, the Nentego (Nanichoke), Mattaponi, Chickahominy, Monacan, and the Powhatan all lived around the area of D.C. Snyder should reach out to one of these organizations and do what FSU did.
Posted By: Versatile Dog Re: Washington's football team. - 07/03/20 04:48 PM
You don't have the authority to tell a rich man what to name his team.

LOL............couldn't resist. Hopefully, you might realize how freaking nuts you sound when you make those comments.
Posted By: RocketOptimist Re: Washington's football team. - 07/03/20 04:50 PM
Originally Posted By: jfanent
Quote:
Hey, I have a great great grandmother who was a full blooded Blackhawk. I am the last in line who can apply for tribal recognition with 1/16 blood. My cousin's Brenda and Joe have and are in the Tribe. If it makes you feel better, maybe I will as well.


You should. Then you can come here like Rocket and preach that no one is qualified to debate you. smile


Anyone can debate. Just come with facts.

I respect Peen's opinion on this. I'm not going to try and tell him he needs to feel any different.

I have also studied under a few Indigenous scholars with their doctorates who wish the Redskins would change their name and do something similar to FSU.

The point is to step out of the way and let groups decide their own destiny. Opinions are fine and all just don't act like the sole authority on a group different than your own. If you're going to advocate, ask the group what messaging they would like you to use in order to discuss hard topics.

So yes, I may feel the Redskins should completely change everything, but I'm not going to go on a crusade and tell a minority group they're wrong while preaching about "furthering the divide" or "this isn't change because you're shaming them...do it this way instead".
Posted By: RocketOptimist Re: Washington's football team. - 07/03/20 05:06 PM
Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog
You don't have the authority to tell a rich man what to name his team.


Yeah, because rich white dude is the same as a minority group who gets told by many people to act a certain way because its offensive to peaceful protest.

Quote:
Hopefully, you might realize how freaking nuts you sound when you make those comments.


One of us says they've done more for black Americans on this very forum than the actual black Americans of this very forum.

One of us had to specifically comment on a stereotype of black Americans while one of us hasn't.

One of us constantly blows the Chicago dog whistle while the other doesn't.

One of us constantly tries to act like a white Dr. King while the other steps out of the way and listens.

If you want to talk about ridiculous, maybe think about how you view black Americans.
Posted By: MemphisBrownie Re: Washington's football team. - 07/03/20 07:03 PM
j/c:

It's funny to see Chief Wahoo trending on Twitter as if the team still uses the logo.

Idiots.
Posted By: Versatile Dog Re: Washington's football team. - 07/03/20 10:53 PM
Understand something. I'm glad you find me ridiculous. You, and your little group, disgust me. You continually spout hateful, vindictive, biased comments. I don't want to be associated w/your group in any way other than the guy who opposes you.

I am for bringing people together and bridging the gap. Your group is about dividing and conquering.

I know what I have done and what I haven't. Your BS accusations and interpretations of my history mean nothing to me. Well, they do mean something. They just reaffirm how ugly y'all are. Go tell that to your PM Chat group.
Posted By: ErikInHell Re: Washington's football team. - 07/04/20 01:44 AM
Originally Posted By: bonefish

The point is many native people find the name offensive.

Not much different then Black people finding the confederate flag offensive.

For you it is a logo. It means more than that to others.

They changed the name of the Washington Bullets.
In November 1995, owner Abe Pollin announced he was changing the team's nickname, because Bullets had acquired violent overtones that had made him increasingly uncomfortable over the years, particularly given the high homicide and crime rate in the early 1990s in Washington, D.C.

If a team name was changed for that reason. Then I don't see why changing a team name from anyskins is such a big deal.


https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/20...-common-answer/

Just last year, they said proud.
Posted By: RocketOptimist Re: Washington's football team. - 07/04/20 01:52 AM
I could probably find you 500 conservatives who love socialism, too!

They can feel that way. I still won’t tell them they’re wrong or what they should do. I don’t have that power.

On the flip side, I can personally attest to many Indigenous individuals who don’t care for caricatures or terrible names developed by people not from that Indigenous group.
Posted By: Versatile Dog Re: Washington's football team. - 07/04/20 02:15 AM
Bottom line: The "Redskins" name is offensive. They aren't red. It's a demeaning term. Get rid of it.
Posted By: BADdog Re: Washington's football team. - 07/04/20 02:34 AM
Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog
Bottom line: The "Redskins" name is offensive. They aren't red. It's a demeaning term. Get rid of it.


They can change the logo to a potato and keep the name.
Posted By: Jester Re: Washington's football team. - 07/04/20 02:45 AM
Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog
Bottom line: The "Redskins" name is offensive. They aren't red. It's a demeaning term. Get rid of it.


Here is my one issue with Native Americans wanting this name changed.

Last I heard (and this was a couple years ago) there were a significant number (can't remember exactly, I think 15?) of high schools on reservations that use Redskins as their nickname/mascot.

Native Americans have all the power to decide what the nickname for those high schools are and picked Redskins. If the term is so highly offensive why is that the case?

If I owned the Washington football team and didn't want to change my trademark, I would point those schools out and say that if each and every one of them changed their mascot then I would change mine.

Then, if they did, I would.
Posted By: Versatile Dog Re: Washington's football team. - 07/04/20 02:47 AM
The logo is maybe the coolest logo in the NFL. The name is the worst in the NFL. It would be great if they could keep the logo and re-name the team to something that fits the logo.

Honoring Native Americans is a good thing! I am not Native American, but I wish I was because I would be on the warpath right now. Very few people give a f... about them. It's not "trending" right now.

When I was a child, I became infatuated with "Indians" [that is what we called them back then.] I read every book in our local library about Indians. I loved their philosophy that they did not own the land, but they honored the land. Of course, that philosophy cost them big time and the whites claimed their land.

My favorite dudes were Cochise and Chief Joseph. Two intellectual dudes. They tried to reason w/the whites, but the whites would not be reasonable. Cochise had a saying. It was something like: "For every one of us that dies, ten whiteeyes will die."

Some might mock that statement and/or find fault w/it, but I get it.
Posted By: Clemdawg Re: Washington's football team. - 07/04/20 02:49 AM
thinking outside the box, i see....
Posted By: Versatile Dog Re: Washington's football team. - 07/04/20 02:51 AM
Jester, I think you are an intelligent person. Do some research and don't rely on headline articles on what Native American life is really like.

What we have done to the Native Americans if far, far worse than what we have done to blacks. The Native Americans just lack spokespeople. Their living conditions are horrific.
Posted By: Jester Re: Washington's football team. - 07/04/20 02:55 AM
Washington owner Dan Snyder can't build new stadium at RFK site unless team changes its name

Chris CwikYahoo SportsJul 2, 2020, 1:01 PM

The pressure is on Washington football team owner Dan Snyder to change the team’s name. While calls to change the team’s name have existed for years, the situation escalated Wednesday, as officials told Snyder he couldn’t build a new stadium on the RFK site unless the team changes its name, according to the Washington Post.

That ultimatum comes courtesy of U.S. Rep. Raúl M. Grijalva, according to The Post.

Grijalva, whose committee oversees the Department of the Interior and the National Park Service, which owns the land, called the prospect of a Redskins stadium on the site a “non-starter,” both for him and the Democratic caucus, given the objections to what he called a “racist nickname” as well as strong views about how to honor the legacy of Robert F. Kennedy, who championed social justice and inclusion, in any development of the site.

“The time [for the name] has ended,” Grijalva said. “There is no way to justify it. You either step into this century or you don’t. It’s up to the owner of the team to do that.”
Other officials backed Grijalva’s statement, including Congresswoman Elenor Holmes Norton and Deputy Mayor John Falcicchio. Mayor Muriel Bowser has also indicated she’s in favor of the team changing its name.

Snyder is looking to move the team to another location once its lease with FedEx Field expires in 2027. It’s assumed Snyder is looking to build the new stadium at the RFK site. The franchise used to play at RFK Stadium, leaving in 1996 to move to FedEx Field.

In March 2019, a bill was introduced that would sell the land around RFK to Washington, D.C. Residents and officials would then be allowed to determine how that land would be used. Snyder wants to build a new stadium, and has tried to pass legislation making it easier for him to get his wish.

Snyder has faced increased pressure to change the team’s name following George Floyd’s death. On Wednesday, investors worth $620 billion signed letters asking FedEx, PepsiCo and Nike to end their relationships with the franchise. Those investors argue those companies are going against their stated commitments to diversity by supporting a team named the “Redskins,” which some consider a racial slur.

Other teams and sports leagues have removed racist iconography in the wake of protests stemming from Floyd’s death. The Minnesota Twins removed a statue of former team owner Calvin Griffith, who made racist comments. NASCAR banned the Confederate flag from its races.

The Washington football team made at least one similar change, removing former team owner George Preston Marshall’s name from the team website and wall of honor. Under Marshall, Washington was the last team in the NFL to integrate. It did so only after Marshall was told the team would not be able to play at RFK Stadium unless it integrated. Marshall is responsible for giving the team its name.

New head coach Ron Rivera was asked about the team’s name Monday. Rivera ducked the question, saying it wasn’t the time to talk about the issue.

Snyder has been vehemently opposed to changing the team’s name in the past. In 2013, Snyder said he would “never change the name of the team.”

https://sports.yahoo.com/washington-owne...-170106907.html
Posted By: Jester Re: Washington's football team. - 07/04/20 02:59 AM
Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog
Jester, I think you are an intelligent person. Do some research and don't rely on headline articles on what Native American life is really like.

What we have done to the Native Americans if far, far worse than what we have done to blacks. The Native Americans just lack spokespeople. Their living conditions are horrific.


I know we have. I just hate when people get upset over use of a word but then turn around and use it to refer to themselves.

Just like I hate when blacks call each other the N word.
Posted By: Versatile Dog Re: Washington's football team. - 07/04/20 03:12 AM
Me too, bro.

Just like they get outraged by police brutality, but are okay w]gang-bangers killing children. False protest.

I will continue to do what I do. I spend 3 days a week in the city helping minorities. I also frequent their local businesses. I will continue to treat each as individual. I will not allow radicals to dictate my beliefs.
Posted By: ErikInHell Re: Washington's football team. - 07/04/20 03:23 AM
Originally Posted By: RocketOptimist
I could probably find you 500 conservatives who love socialism, too!

They can feel that way. I still won’t tell them they’re wrong or what they should do. I don’t have that power.

On the flip side, I can personally attest to many Indigenous individuals who don’t care for caricatures or terrible names developed by people not from that Indigenous group.


So, the guy that constantly says, "come with the facts" wants to pick and choose which facts are acceptable. Typical.

I've been to the Nansmond powwow several time, and I always see a lot of redskin hats and jerseys being worn by the Nansmond. I still believe this is nothing more than projected white guilt. It always reminds me of the Gary Lawson/Jane Goodall flap back in the 80s, when the Goodall institute decided to get offended on Jane's behalf.
Posted By: fishtheice Re: Washington's football team. - 07/04/20 04:30 AM
You see NFL Redskin jackets and Cleveland Indians jackets worn by many native American's on the Blackfeet Indian Reservation.

The Redskins primary logo used today was first designed in 1971 in close consultation with Native American leaders. Among those who unanimously approved and voiced praise for the logo was Walter “Blackie” Wetzel, a former President of the National Congress of American Indians and Chairman of the Blackfeet Nation. Years earlier, Mr. Wetzel had been deeply involved with U.S. President John F. Kennedy in the movement for civil liberties, civil rights, and economic freedom for all. In 2014, Mr. Wetzel’s son Don commented, “It needs to be said that an Indian from the State of Montana created the Redskins logo, and did it the right way. It represents the Red Nation, and it’s something to be proud of.”

https://sportslogohistory.com/washington-redskins-primary-logo
Posted By: BADdog Re: Washington's football team. - 07/04/20 04:40 AM
How about red nation for the name
Posted By: Tulsa Re: Washington's football team. - 07/04/20 04:59 AM
How about the Washington Oklahomans? Since okla humma literally means "red people" in the Choctaw language, and it was a Choctaw Chief, Allen Wright, who named the territory in 1866. Equivalent to the English word Indian, okla humma was a phrase in the Choctaw language that described Native American people as a whole.


Posted By: fishtheice Re: Washington's football team. - 07/04/20 07:09 AM


Washington Redskins logo has deep connection to Blackfeet reservation, Wetzel family

JASON BLASCO

406mtsports.com 19 hrs ago







Editor's note: 406mtsports.com first published this story on Jan. 28, 2019.

HELENA — Lance Wetzel looks at the Washington Redskins logo and is bombarded with a flurry of positive emotions because the logo itself is symbolic of his family, his culture and his Blackfeet tribal ancestry.

The image depicted on the Redskins helmet is of John "Two Guns" Whitecalf, a Blackfeet Chief whose likeness also appeared on the Buffalo nickel, minted from 1913-38.

The man responsible for the image is the father of Helena High assistant basketball coach Lance Wetzel, Walter "Blackie" Wetzel.

"When I look at the logo, I mostly think of my dad because he was a person who found pride in the Redskins logo, of having our people in the spotlight, and being represented by a big-time professional team," Lance Wetzel said. "Back in that time frame, there wasn't a whole lot of positives about Native Americans. To look at that helmet and see the representation there, I see a whole lot of pride."

Lance and cousin Ryan Wetzel were even honored by the Washington Redskins on behalf of Walter "Blackie" Wetzel (in 2018) at a Washington Redskins home game. They waved the Blackfeet flag honoring the origin of the logo.

Walter Wetzel, a former Blackfeet tribal chairman and National Congress American Indian President, urged the Redskins in 1971 to change their logo from the burgundy and gold "R'" to the image it still has today.

The name, logo and likeness have been mired in controversy because of the racial connotations associated with it. There's historical context to how the Redskins logo and name showcase a different intention than some interpreted, according to Lance Wetzel.

"I took my dad's word that this was a big-time logo representing our people," he said. "You look at the logo and Blackfeet history, and they are considered powerful people. I identify and connect with the logo that way."

Walter Wetzel passed away in 2003. He was described by his family as fearless, charismatic and selfless, all characteristics that allowed him to excel and be on the forefront for rights of Native Americans during the era of the civil rights movement.
What's in a logo?

With the help of Mike Mansfield, who was Walter Wetzel's history teacher at the University of Montana, Wetzel established a distinguished career in politics.

He rubbed elbows with politicians in the 1950s and 1960s, including the Kennedy family and Lyndon B. Johnson, hoping to advance rights for Native people as the elected president of the National Congress of American Indians.

"In my opinion, my dad was kind of like Martin Luther King," Lance Wetzel said. "He never gave up and kept trying to make things better for the Native people."

Dr. Ken Ryan can attest to Lance Wetzel’s assessment of his father. Ryan, the economic development officer for the Fort Peck Indian Reservation for both the Sioux and Assiniboine tribes, expressed admiration for Walter Wetzel’s accomplishments.

Ryan credited Wetzel for furthering the advancement of Native people because getting the Redskins to change the “R” on the helmet to a standard image was symbolic of his accomplishments.

“He brought Native people together, and when he did, all of the tribes in national tribal programs advanced,” said Ryan, who is in his 51st year dealing with Native American Affairs. “We came from a very remote Indian reservation. Reservations were not given to our people to live here, they restricted our land size so they could become the state of Montana. Walter’s influences on all of the tribes of America and his influences are far-reaching and profound because he was a profound leader.”

Ryan said he believes former Redskins owner Jack Kent Cooke approached Walter Wetzel about changing the “R” on the shield of the logo to the tribal symbol.

“When they were Super Bowl champions (twice in the 1980s), every time people looked at the Washington Redskins football helmet, they saw a person with a Native American profile on the shield on the side of the helmet, and that subliminally had an effect on those that were Native,” Ryan said. “Some of the people in other tribes are anti that image and consider it demeaning. I’ve never heard any elected tribal leader object to the use and image of the Washington Redskins.”

Ryan expressed satisfaction of having the Native symbols on professional teams.

“It is very satisfying to see a Native American on a professional football helmet,” he said. “Before that, our people had the privilege of Jim Thorpe, who was a giant in Carlisle, Pennsylvania. We were also happy to have the Indian head nickel. The thing is, the tribes were satisfied, and I never heard anyone (in the tribe) object to being an Indian, and never heard any objections to the use of logos like the Chicago Blackhawks. I've never heard any complaints from the tribe.”

Ryan also referred to Walter “Blackie” Wetzel as one of his heroes.

“I had such great respect for him,” he said. “He was a kind and decent, humble and honorable ... I never heard him cuss, or ever heard any criticism from him at all.”

Lance Wetzel understands the perspective of many who have been opposed to the logo over the years.

"I can see both sides of the story," he said. "The way I see it, this opens the door to a great education for people to learn about the history of tribal people. I know my dad said the logo wasn't chosen in a derogatory kind of way."

The nickname "Redskins" also is surrounded by controversy. The name, allegedly the brainchild of William Henry “Lone Star” Dietz, is a lightning rod.

Deitz, who was a coach of the Boston Redskins from 1933-34, was accused of being an "impostor," trying to cash in on the fame of Native American athletes such as Thorpe, who was also a good friend, according to a Washington Post article written about Dietz in 2013.

"From what I read on Dietz, he wasn't using the Redskins name in a derogatory way," Lance Weitzel said. "I always look at that logo and that image and think about the pride I have in it."

Donnie Wetzel Jr., who lives in Helena and works in Native American Education, said he felt the logo controversy creates a divide in the Native American communities.

"My grandfather was more focused on the logo being a strong representation of the tribes," Donnie said. "For him to be able to do that, especially during the civil rights movement, was a big deal."

Ryan Wetzel, Walter's grandson, said he understood the historical context of the name Redskins and said he understands why some people get upset.

Ryan, like Lance and Donnie, is sympathetic to both viewpoints but still hopes the story of Lance's father gets out there.

"Whether it is offensive or not, the important thing is for everyone to understand the Wetzel side of things," Ryan said. "Grandpa saw that the "R" was not the right representation of this team and organization. He stepped up to the plate when no one else would, which was an enormous deal to give that logo a sense of respect. There was no harm, he didn't want to offend anyone. (He just wanted) to have an actual Native American on the helmet, a man who wanted to do something like this with heart and determination."
The man behind the effort

The symbol itself is an embodiment of not only the Blackfeet Nation, but also of Walter "Blackie" Wetzel's struggle. He overcame adversity in a time of great political and economic turmoil in the United States.

Raised in Browning on the Blackfeet reservation near Glacier National Park, Wetzel overcame a humble start to get an opportunity to go to the University of Montana in a time when most Native people didn't have a chance to attend college.

When Wetzel was 5, he was sent on a train to boarding school in Lawrence, Kansas, with his two brothers and two other friends, to attend the Haskell Institute.

At the time, the U.S. government took Indian children from their families and sent them to boarding schools to be educated so they could assimilate into U.S. culture.

"He spent five years there, and that was plenty for him," Lance said. "Back in those days, returning to the reservation was a difficult transition because they would take Natives from different tribes, and board them halfway across the country."

"They would take them completely away from home, where everything was foreign to them. They didn't know the language, the way of life, and it was pretty hard back in those times. That was considered the 'lost generation' because some were too Indian to succeed in society and outside the reservation. However, my dad was pretty accepted by all of those people. It never changed who he was, which was the charisma, his leadership and everything he demonstrated in sports."

In 1934, Walter Wetzel met Max Worthington, the basketball coach at Shelby High, and moved from Browning to Shelby to play basketball. Worthington was an all-American player at Montana State and the main arena at Brick Breeden Fieldhouse in Bozeman is named after him.

"He helped Worthington win a district championship," Lance Wetzel said of his grandfather.

Blackie's athletic aptitude created opportunities for him at Montana, where he competed in boxing, track and football. This was similar to the athletic path Thorpe took.

Walter Wetzel's prowess in boxing was even known to the movie star George Montgomery Letz.

"They had to fight each other, and he had a scar from his nose to his lips," Lance said. "When I would see him on a movie, I would say 'there is my old buddy,' and he still has that old scar. They were good friends at the same time."

After Walter's athletic career, he dove into a career in politics that spanned 40-plus years. He eventually moved to Washington, D.C.
Passing of the torch

The Wetzel family's success in athletics has been well-documented.

Ryan Wetzel, a motivational speaker who started his own company, was featured in a film titled "It's Never Too Late," is about a 36-year-old plumber from Stevensville who was discovered by Ryan playing basketball at a recreational gym and eventually fulfilled his dream to become a professional player.

The Wetzels have multiple college athletes in the family in basketball, football, soccer, baseball, volleyball, track, cross country, and fast-pitch, and Lance Wetzel is a long-time coach. He manages and coaches with his wife, the Helena Bearcats, a youth travel basketball organization, and also at Helena High. He has been a coach in the Helena School District since 2001, having also coached at Capital. Lance's uncle and Donnie's father, Don Wetzel, who also lives in Helena, was a star basketball player at Montana.

Other Wetzels are currently playing college basketball.

"Every member of our family is either playing basketball, track or baseball," Lance said.

Donnie Wetzel recalls some of the strong sports stories passed down in the family. That includes being on a team that reputedly defeated the Harlem Globetrotters.

"When I look at the logo, I see a Native American and a Blackfeet Indian on the helmet, and it represents who we are as people because we are strong people," Lance Wetzel said. "I look on there and see my dad, too. As I said, that was the first positive image of Native Americans in the '70s."

https://406mtsports.com/football/washing...c713ee3997.html
Posted By: PerfectSpiral Re: Washington's football team. - 07/04/20 10:45 AM
The logo isn’t the issue bro. Geez... trump supporters. Pffft.
Posted By: PerfectSpiral Re: Washington's football team. - 07/04/20 10:51 AM
Originally Posted By: Tulsa
How about the Washington Oklahomans? Since okla humma literally means "red people" in the Choctaw language, and it was a Choctaw Chief, Allen Wright, who named the territory in 1866. Equivalent to the English word Indian, okla humma was a phrase in the Choctaw language that described Native American people as a whole.




Yeah Oklahoma, probably the most racist state per capita in the country. As you said translates to Red people....... not ‘Redskins‘
Posted By: Tulsa Re: Washington's football team. - 07/04/20 11:42 AM
Originally Posted By: PerfectSpiral
Originally Posted By: Tulsa
How about the Washington Oklahomans? Since okla humma literally means "red people" in the Choctaw language, and it was a Choctaw Chief, Allen Wright, who named the territory in 1866. Equivalent to the English word Indian, okla humma was a phrase in the Choctaw language that described Native American people as a whole.




Yeah Oklahoma, probably the most racist state per capita in the country. As you said translates to Red people....... not ‘Redskins‘



So you think the reference to red is because of the color of their hair. Then you call Okie's the most racist. Morons. Pffft.
Posted By: PitDAWG Re: Washington's football team. - 07/04/20 03:13 PM
Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog
Understand something. I'm glad you find me ridiculous. You, and your little group, disgust me. You continually spout hateful, vindictive, biased comments. I don't want to be associated w/your group in any way other than the guy who opposes you.


Do you mean like that? Do you mean what you just did?

Quote:
I am for bringing people together and bridging the gap. Your group is about dividing and conquering.


I suppose you mean other than your opening salvo?

I'll tell you what's ridiculous here. Claiming to be above it all in the exact same post you are doing what you claim to despise. There are words that define that but I won't get into that right now.

I will stay above the fray. wink
Posted By: fishtheice Re: Washington's football team. - 07/04/20 06:23 PM
Originally Posted By: PerfectSpiral
The logo isn’t the issue bro. Geez... trump supporters. Pffft.


"The name, logo and likeness have been mired in controversy because of the racial connotations associated with it. There's historical context to how the Redskins logo and name showcase a different intention than some interpreted, according to Lance Wetzel."

I'm just showing an 'actual' Indians perspective on the issue. Geez..white, know-it-all liberals...Pffft.
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