Over 60 Portland 911 calls go unheeded overnight as police respond to riot
Calls about theft, vandalism, suspicious activity, hit and runs, and burglary were put on hold
By Danielle Wallace | Fox News
More than 60 emergency calls to police went unheeded overnight in Portland as officers were preoccupied with hundreds of demonstrators downtown and were pelted by rocks.
On the 80th consecutive night of protests, the Portland Police Bureau declared a riot around midnight Sunday after a crowd of hundreds had blocked traffic for three hours by the Penumbra Kelly Building in the 4700 block of East Burnside Street, trespassed on the closed property and engaged in “violent, tumultuous conduct.”
The targeted building is owned by the city and is used by city and county employees, including the Police Bureau.
From midnight to about 2:45 a.m., protesters ignored warnings from police to disperse and began arguing amongst themselves.
Some threw objects at police cars in the parking lot of the building and spray-painted over security cameras. Others shined green lasers at officers’ eyes and pelted police with softball-sized “river rocks” and glass bottles.
COSTS FROM WEEKS OF PROTESTS TAKE FINANCIAL TOLL ON CASH-STRAPPED CITIES ACROSS US
Two officers went to the hospital. A photo shared by the police bureau showed a 9.5-pound rock that was thrown by a person posing as "press" as the officer "prepared to ride away on a truck.” Several arrests were made. Portland police are seen in riot gear during a standoff with protesters in Portland, Oregon on August 16, 2020. Protests have continued for the 80th consecutive night in Portland since the killing of George Floyd. (Photo by Paula Bronstein/Getty Images)
Portland police are seen in riot gear during a standoff with protesters in Portland, Oregon on August 16, 2020. Protests have continued for the 80th consecutive night in Portland since the killing of George Floyd. (Photo by Paula Bronstein/Getty Images)
“At the time of this release over 60 calls for police service were holding around the city," the Police Bureau said in a statement. "Some had been holding for the length of the events described here. Call types ranged from theft, vandalism, suspicious activity, hazards, hit and run, burglary, violation of restraining order, alarms, stolen cars, harassment and many others.”
Officers attempted to push the crowd back to Laurelhurst Park. Demonstrators swept through residential streets while people looked on from windows and porches at their homes, The Oregonian reported.
Meanwhile, a more than 17-hour crisis negotiation continued early Sunday in Forest Park, where an armed suspect has resisted police efforts to take him into custody for a mental health evaluation.
The man allegedly tried to break into an occupied home before 7 a.m. Saturday and made threats with knives before fleeing on foot. He barricaded himself in the park and claims to have a gun.
The Police Bureau’s Crisis Negotiation Team has unsuccessfully tried to draw the man out by offering water, food, and clothing, and sending messages from friends and family. Officers also deployed tear gas, pepper balls, and impact munitions and sent in a K-9 unit, but the suspect, wearing body armor, tried to stab the dog, the bureau said.
PORTLAND TO ALLOW COPS TO INTERACT WITH SOME FEDERAL AUTHORITIES
As unrest continues in Oregon’s largest city, a group of about 30 alt-right demonstrators held a Patriot Prayer rally in front of the Multnomah County Justice Center Saturday afternoon, which quickly devolved in chaos as they traded paintballs and pepper spray with counter-protesters, KOIN-TV reported.
Counter-protesters reportedly chased rally attendees into a parking garage and what sounded like two gunshots were heard over the KOIN live broadcast.
Police spokesman Lt. Greg Pashley told The Oregonian that they are aware of the allegation that shots were fired and will investigate. No injuries were reported. Protesters are seen during a standoff at a Portland police precinct in Portland, Oregon on August 15, 2020. (Photo by Paula Bronstein/Getty Images )
Protesters are seen during a standoff at a Portland police precinct in Portland, Oregon on August 15, 2020. (Photo by Paula Bronstein/Getty Images )
Last week, Oregon State Police announced they are leaving the city following a two-week assignment to help protect a federal courthouse that’s been a target of protesters.
While the protests for racial justice and against police brutality are generally peaceful during the day, drawing a wide swath of citizens, they have often turned violent at night.
Nights of unrest that increasingly targeted the federal courthouse prompted President Trump to dispatch U.S. agents to guard the building in July, which reinvigorated Black Lives Matter demonstrations and often ended in violent clashes.
Newly elected Multnomah County District Attorney Mike Schmidt decided not to prosecute people arrested for non-violent misdemeanors. Since the protests began, over 500 people have been arrested. So far, fewer than 50 are being prosecuted, according to The Associated Press.
Conservatives still whining about the TVs that cost 25 bucks to build in a country they despised, which is also insured anyway. Those stores are getting their money back.
People who are killed by cops unjustly are not getting their lives back.
There are local, city, county and state police departments as well as an entire criminal justice system devoted to addressing criminals in our society. Not to mention the FBI and criminal bureaus in every state. Paid for by society, which includes those "liberals" you keep harping about help pay the bill for that. Far from being "ignored" no matter how much you try and claim otherwise. Sadly, there are also laws and guidelines in place to shield the police for much of the same accountability the rest of us are held to.
When they devote even on tenth of the resources to protecting people from the police that they do in addressing crimes you keep carrying on about, get back to me. As of now you're making noise without making a point.
Conservatives still whining about the TVs that cost 25 bucks to build in a country they despised, which is also insured anyway. Those stores are getting their money back.
People who are killed by cops unjustly are not getting their lives back.
There are a lot of businesses that don't insure against everything (there are lots of types of insurance to consider) and a lot of innocent business owners are going to lose everything. Insurance gets expensive and when there is a lot of crime, the cost of some insurance just goes up.
I know that you didn't mean it like this, but you are coming close to using insurance as a rationalization for crime. Just be mindful of this. It's a slippery slope because homes and lives can be insured as well. Doesn't make it okay to burn down someones home or, as you pointed out, murder someone.
Conservatives still whining about the TVs that cost 25 bucks to build in a country they despised, which is also insured anyway. Those stores are getting their money back.
People who are killed by cops unjustly are not getting their lives back.
There are a lot of businesses that don't insure against everything (there are lots of types of insurance to consider) and a lot of innocent business owners are going to lose everything. Insurance gets expensive and when there is a lot of crime, the cost of some insurance just goes up.
I know that you didn't mean it like this, but you are coming close to using insurance as a rationalization for crime. Just be mindful of this. It's a slippery slope because homes and lives can be insured as well. Doesn't make it okay to burn down someones home or, as you pointed out, murder someone.
Seems some cops and white supremacists have been getting away with just that for a couple centuries now.
Bro I’ve been on record saying I don’t really like the riots and looting.
But I most certainly understand where the anger is coming from, because I feel that same anger right now.
And the point about my comments on business is that so many conservatives show more outrage over the response than they do the situation that led up to it. Damn near every single time.
And then the typical response is “well unarmed white people get shot more than blacks”, without realizing how dumb that sounds.
yes, white people get shot more. SOMETHING SHOULD BE DONE ABOUT THAT. THATS HORRIBLE.
It’s like damn y’all best defense is to claim you don’t care about each other that much, so no one else matters either?
Yikes.
It is constantly flying over conservatives heads that the reforms we want and the protest we engage in BENEFITS WHITE PEOPLE TOO.
But y’all constantly in favor of policies that lead to your own demise. It’s like damn, maybe y’all DO like authoritarianism. Maybe you DO like totalitarian regimes. Maybe you DO like law enforcement beating up on local population in the name of “law and order”.
Jesus Christ. The same people who LOVE talking about limited government can’t even stand up to the lowest levels of governments law enforcement.
003, I dunno your politics, but conservatives look like this to me right now:
All about law and order when it’s people who don’t look like them. Then it’s storming government buildings when they tell you to wear a mask, because ya know, that’s tyranny.
FBI shifts resources to ongoing unrest in Portland, Oregon
PORTLAND, Ore. (AP) — The FBI chief in Portland, Oregon, is dedicating more resources to crimes committed during nightly protests that often end in vandalism and clashes with police. Special Agent in Charge Renn Cannon said Wednesday he is pulling agents from fraud and organized crime teams to focus on acts of violence and federal crimes committed during nearly three months of unrest. Cannon says the FBI respects the free speech rights of non-violent protesters. Police made 23 arrests early Wednesday as protesters smashed windows at City Hall. Portland has been gripped by protests since the May 25 police killing of George Floyd in Minneapolis.
Portland Mayor Says Let Violence ‘Burn Itself Out’ as Police Detail Nightly Destruction
Penny Starr
27 Aug 2020
Portland, Oregon, Mayor Ted Wheeler responded almost nonchalantly to NPR when asked about the nightly violent riots in his city that have injured countless police officers, destroyed property, and shuttered businesses.
“[The protest] will ultimately burn itself out,” Wheeler told the local public radio station last week.
The Free Beacon reported on Wheeler’s stance, which did not condemn the violence:
Wheeler told OPR [Oregon Public Radio] reporter Rebecca Ellis last week that he expects daily protests in the city—which began in May following the death of George Floyd—to last for some time. He said he expects nightly violence that followed the protests “will ultimately burn itself out.”
The mayor, who is in charge of Portland’s police force, told OPR the department will adjust to the situation on its own.
“They’ve tried everything from not showing up to preemptively dispersing crowds, and some of those strategies, in my opinion, have worked well,” Wheeler said. “Others have not worked well.”
“Wheeler previously proposed to top aides a ‘high-risk’ policing approach in which police would be ordered to stand down and not respond to rioters,” the Beacon reported. “He never put those measures into effect, leaving local police without clear directives in dealing with crowds, whether they are rioting, looting businesses, or setting fire to government buildings.”
In a Thursday press release about the ongoing mayhem and arrests that continue to take place on a nightly basis, including attacking federal property, Portland police said:
After a couple hundred individuals blocked traffic outside of the Immigrations and Customs Enforcement (ICE) building, a couple people in the group vandalized and disabled security cameras affixed to the building. Federal Protection Officers emerged from the building and were struck by projectiles, including a rock which injured one of the officers, prompting an unlawful assembly and several arrests. Many in the crowd carried shields, wore helmets, gas masks, and body armor.
As Federal Protection Officers stood outside of the ICE building, people were seen flashing lasers at their eyes. Others in the crowd were seen throwing projectiles such as eggs, bottles, and rocks at the Federal Protection Officers. One of the Federal Protection Officers was hit with a rock, striking their leg, and injuring them. Due to the seriousness of the crowd’s criminal behavior, the incident commander determined that the event was an unlawful assembly.
After targeted arrests were made, to reduce the intensity of the situation, PPB officers disengaged. As PPB officers disengaged, people in the group continued to throw rocks at officers.
The police named the 11 people who were arrested:
Those arrested were booked into the Multnomah County Detention Center on the listed charges:
*Baxter, Robert, 26, of Reno, Nevada, Interfering with a Peace Officer
*Oram, Sara, 42, of Portland, Oregon, Interfering with a Peace Officer, Disorderly Conduct II
*Abrams, Rebecca, 28, of Portland, Oregon, Interfering with a Peace Officer, Disorderly Conduct II
*Canizal Almanza, Ivan, 21, of Portland, Oregon, Interfering with a Peace Officer, Disorderly Conduct II, Carrying a Concealed Weapon
*Atkin, Austin, 25, of Reno, Nevada, Interfering with a Peace Officer, Disorderly Conduct II
*Wilkes, Noah, 21, of Corbett, Oregon, Interfering with a Peace Officer, Disorderly Conduct II
*Wade, Greyson, 20, of Happy Valley, Oregon, Interfering with a Peace Officer, Disorderly Conduct II
*Traficano, Daniel, 33, of Portland, Oregon, Interfering with a Peace Officer, Disorderly Conduct II
*Molina, Tracy, 47, of Portland, Oregon, Interfering with a Peace Officer, Disorderly Conduct II
*Churchwell, Brenden D., 31, of Portland, Oregon, Interfering with a Peace Officer, Disorderly Conduct II
*Phomma, Kevin, 26, of Portland, Oregon, Interfering with a Peace Officer, Disorderly Conduct II, Harassment, Unlawful use of Mace/Pepper Spray
“My expectation is the police bureau will evolve, and as they see a need for change, they’ll change,” Wheeler said
Bro I’ve been on record saying I don’t really like the riots and looting.
But I most certainly understand where the anger is coming from, because I feel that same anger right now.
And the point about my comments on business is that so many conservatives show more outrage over the response than they do the situation that led up to it. Damn near every single time.
And then the typical response is “well unarmed white people get shot more than blacks”, without realizing how dumb that sounds.
yes, white people get shot more. SOMETHING SHOULD BE DONE ABOUT THAT. THATS HORRIBLE.
It’s like damn y’all best defense is to claim you don’t care about each other that much, so no one else matters either?
Yikes.
It is constantly flying over conservatives heads that the reforms we want and the protest we engage in BENEFITS WHITE PEOPLE TOO.
But y’all constantly in favor of policies that lead to your own demise. It’s like damn, maybe y’all DO like authoritarianism. Maybe you DO like totalitarian regimes. Maybe you DO like law enforcement beating up on local population in the name of “law and order”.
Jesus Christ. The same people who LOVE talking about limited government can’t even stand up to the lowest levels of governments law enforcement.
003, I dunno your politics, but conservatives look like this to me right now:
All about law and order when it’s people who don’t look like them. Then it’s storming government buildings when they tell you to wear a mask, because ya know, that’s tyranny.
I understand this will only be met w/ridicule, but here goes:
Originally Posted By: Swish
Bro I’ve been on record saying I don’t really like the riots and looting. Nothing for me to comment on w/this one.
But I most certainly understand where the anger is coming from, because I feel that same anger right now. I can understand why you are angry. I am, too.
And the point about my comments on business is that so many conservatives show more outrage over the response than they do the situation that led up to it. Damn near every single time. Hmmmm...........this is a tough one. Some folks will show outrage no matter what the other side does. Conservatives, liberals, whites, blacks, etc. Some of us think there are more intelligent ways to promote our ideologies rather than to riot and loot.
And then the typical response is “well unarmed white people get shot more than blacks”, without realizing how dumb that sounds.
yes, white people get shot more. SOMETHING SHOULD BE DONE ABOUT THAT. THATS HORRIBLE. It is what it is. I was beaten by cops after I beat the crap out of a dude in a bar. I ain't gonna cry about it. They are law enforcement. They see all kinds of bad stuff. It's gotta wear on you. I am not going to blame them for what they did. I get it. I don't like the mother blankers, but it is what it is.
It’s like damn y’all best defense is to claim you don’t care about each other that much, so no one else matters either?
Yikes. It's not even close to my best defense. My best defense is that I will treat you equally. That means you will not be treated unfairly by me and you don't get a free pass by me. If you act responsibly, I will praise you and help you. If you act like a criminal, I will condemn you. You want to be equal? Act the part. Stop w/all the criminal behavior and then expect for whites to say........."it's okay, he's black."
It is constantly flying over conservatives heads that the reforms we want and the protest we engage in BENEFITS WHITE PEOPLE TOO. I could be wrong, but the reforms by the BLM organization benefit blacks and will hurt the working class.
But y’all constantly in favor of policies that lead to your own demise. It’s like damn, maybe y’all DO like authoritarianism. Maybe you DO like totalitarian regimes. Maybe you DO like law enforcement beating up on local population in the name of “law and order”. No, we don't like that. We detest it. We also detest how many blacks commit crimes and then cry about how they are victims. Sorry bro, but there are a ton of successful blacks. The policies are already in place for blacks to succeed. Some things still need to be improved, such as hiring in the work force and promotions, but there are so many advantages for minorities in education and in some hiring practices. It needs to get better, but it's already there.
The demands of the BLM political organization will hurt both blacks and whites who actually want to work for a living. Those demands will only further alienate the two groups and while it may seem that they help blacks on a surface level, those demands would actually result in keeping blacks down. You have no idea how strongly I feel about this. You have no idea how much those demands infuriate me because they would undo all the good that we have done to help the black community. The best thing we can do for the black community is help the achieve. Educate them. Build up their self-esteem. Encourage them to succeed. Telling them they are not good enough to compete and that they need handouts is a form of oppression of the worst kind and I will fight you blankety blanks until the end of time on that one. Stop telling blacks they are not good enough or smart enough or resilient enough or industrious enough. They are!!! Stop the oppression!!!!
Jesus Christ. The same people who LOVE talking about limited government can’t even stand up to the lowest levels of governments law enforcement. I really don't know what your mean on this one. Sorry. Not an insult at all. I just don't get it.
003, I dunno your politics, but conservatives look like this to me right now:
All about law and order when it’s people who don’t look like them. Then it’s storming government buildings when they tell you to wear a mask, because ya know, that’s tyranny. I think the idiots who don't wear a mask for political reasons are just that.......idiots. I was watching videos about these punk-ass white boys w/guns talking about how the government were Nazis because of the restrictions. Freaking punks! And clueless! Then again, I feel the same way about all the rioters, looters, and folks who are destroying public property. Fact is that both sides make me freaking sick.
Final comment: I have been preaching that we should try to come together for many years. Very few people agree w/that sentiment. It is what it is. I am ready to defend my family.
99.999% of the protestors are peaceful and just want their voice heard.
I don't use purple.
Ok,, then who's doing all the damage? I mean, they've already found White Supremicists and Neo Nazis and KKK in the mix of trouble makers....Who do you think they support?
I'm convinced that there is an element of the army of the right that is causing most of this...
Just as I mentioned in a thread with Swish. These people keep getting voted in.
Honestly, I think it's because most people don't research anything, and just check off the name they recognize when voting, and/or the one with the best social media blitz/propaganda campaign.
So, the sheriff statements were in 2018, under trump’s law and order, under trump’s America. It’s these racist values that trump and his supporters hold dear and why they vote for him. Pffft with trump’s law and order....black lives don’t matter.
So, the sheriff statements were in 2018, under trump’s law and order, under trump’s America. It’s these racist values that trump and his supporters hold dear and why they vote for him. Pffft with trump’s law and order....black lives don’t matter.
Then you believe the majority of people are racist? Because either that is true and they specifically voted him in on that concept or as I said above... "Honestly, I think it's because most people don't research anything, and just check off the name they recognize when voting, and/or the one with the best social media blitz/propaganda campaign."
All the things people complain about politicians, yet we have people in congress who have been there for 30+ years and haven't done a damn thing for the average citizen, and I think it goes back to the uneducated (not in the insulting manner, but in the literal) voter.
30 years ago there wasn’t the internet for everyone to log on to. There wasn’t social media, and there wasn’t camera phones.
A lot less people get to credibly feign ignorance now. You know what the president said. You know what he said about Obama and Harris birth certificate. You know what he said in Charlottesville. You know what he said about African countries and wanting more people from Norway. You know what he said about 4 women of color in Congress.
You know he got sued by the government TWICE for racial discrimination. You know he got ticked off when he saw black people handling money in his casinos. You know what he said about the Brooklyn 5.
The people don’t have any excuses. If you know all of those things and still support the guy, guess what you’re gonna get called by people who look like me....
A lot of people vote based on catch phrases and campaign gimmicks. They often times do not actually look at the evidence of a candidates past or dive deeper into the things they say.
While I don't know it to be a fact, it would seem logical to me that the negative things he says have been pointed out by his opponents during campaigns. But as we can see on this very board, some look for excuses to claim everything is racist while others look for excuses to excuse many things that are racist.
What people hear when others talk is more about them in many cases than what it actually being said. The message is usually catered to who it is you wish to appeal to.
Your broad comment about uneducated voters and politicians for 30+ years
Thought that was pretty clear.
Makes more sense with that understanding, but I think you're confusing my position here, since we were discussing a local sheriff.
Presidential elections have much more information thrown in your face, even though most of it is BS and/or propaganda designed to belittle their opponent. But more local level politics, most people o not follow, so when presented with the choices in the box, they just pick the name they recognize. Most will never research the sheriff or his opponent, or the school board, or city council.
THAT is the uneducated part that I was referring to.
I'd go as far to say a large portion of voters are in the same boat when it comes to state reps and so forth.
Presidential and State governor races are about the only ones I think most people really put much thought into who they will vote for.
Rand Paul got protested and felt like he would be killed without police... Well Rand, that's how blacks feel about the police everyday. If somebody doesn't help them they will be killed by out of control cops randomly at any time.
... And the point about my comments on business is that so many conservatives show more outrage over the response than they do the situation that led up to it. Damn near every single time. ...
I think you are 100% right.
But to be fair to conservatives, there can be a discussion about that... What justifies outrage? Should people feel more anger over one than the other? why?
I think people are largely motivated to feel anger/outrage over things that effect them or are a threat to them.
Put yourself in the shoes of an average white suburban conservative that has chosen to live in a place with great schools, low crime, and a police dept with a great reputation. What threatens you?
Originally Posted By: Swish
... It’s like damn y’all best defense is to claim you don’t care about each other that much, so no one else matters either?
Yikes.
It is constantly flying over conservatives heads that the reforms we want and the protest we engage in BENEFITS WHITE PEOPLE TOO.
But y’all constantly in favor of policies that lead to your own demise. It’s like damn, maybe y’all DO like authoritarianism. Maybe you DO like totalitarian regimes. Maybe you DO like law enforcement beating up on local population in the name of “law and order”. ...
Let's just be honest about Conservative viewpoints and there lack of lack of sympathy for even minor criminal behavior...
I don't think the average Conservative views the criminal reforms you are talking about as a benefit. In my experience, conservatives have very little tolerance for people that commit crimes, regardless of race, and often perceive removing the criminals from society as the most beneficial outcome. It removes the threat posed by repeated criminal behavior. No surprise then that they are also the people most likely to support the death penalty.
They also don't forgive easily either and given that white Conservatives are typically also Christians, the mild hypocrisy is not lost on me.
Unless they happen to be white collar crimes. They seem not to mind those as bad.
Maybe. I don't know if there is a difference in liberals and conservatives on the balance between white and blue collar crimes (is blue collar the right term for the opposite of white collar crime?).
the government was all cool with alcohol...until all of a sudden, they weren't. they literally created criminals out of people overnight.
we made criminals out of people overnight for simply doing drugs, that the act by itself doesn't interfere with anyone else's rights.
conservatives talk about limited government, but then just blindly follows along with whatever government decides to make illegal.
and a lot of this crap is based on whatever biblical text they want to bring up.
for god sakes, conservatives were fine with making interracial marriage illegal.
Well, we can't just disobey laws that we disagree with. That sovereign citizen stuff won't get anyone anywhere. Obeying laws that you disagree with is just part of having a government (and most of us cheat on the little things if we know we can get away with it). But we don't live in a dictatorship, we can change the laws that we don't like, and changing big, complicated problems for the better is hard and takes a long time. Being in a minority group (of any kind; racial, idealogical, whatever) that desires change can be difficult because you have to convince the majority that your problems are worth solving and your solutions are good. I am sympathetic to this disadvantage, but the only way to overcome it is to win the majority of people over to your side. That's why I am glad that so many people like yourself are condemning the rioters, because they are like poison to your ideas. They will turn the general public against your effort to improve the system.
I get on your case sometimes, but that is only because a couple of people told me about your PMs back in the day about how you were trying to get them to gang-up on me.
However, you are the only left-leaning member to actually acknowledge what this black man said. I applaud you for being honest.
I'm gonna be real here:
--Police shooting and killing blacks is a problem.
--Black-on-black crime is a problem.
--Child trafficking is a problem.
--Too many children born out of wedlock is a problem.
--Domestic abuse is a problem.
--Child abuse is a problem.
--Brothers and sisters living together w/different fathers is a problem.
--Drug abuse is a problem.
--Violence is a problem.
--Destroying our cities is a problem.
I could go on and on and on........but, here is the thing.
The sports-world only boycotts the shooting of the first bullet point. They ignore every other injustice.
This board is a microcosm of what is occurring across the country. How in the hell can you ignore the child sex trafficking trade and focus ONLY on police brutality. How the hell can you ignore the drive-by shootings by the scum gang-bangers and only concentrate on a police shooting a few black men? I call "hypocrisy." And before anyone twists my words around...........I am 100 percent against police shooting these men. 100%!!!!
But, how the hell do folks ignore all the rest?
And I guarantee that there are a lot of working white folks and even black folks who are succeeding in life that are paying attention to the double standards. Just like they did when y'all were dancing in the streets four years ago about how Hillary was going to trounce Trump.
And to punch home the point...........I am going to say something that I have said before, but some seemingly forget when they try and poke fun w/their dumb-ass hashtags.
One of my favorite students of all-time was raped and murdered after she left my classroom and was walking home by 3 punk-ass gang-bangers. I despise the gangs. With a freaking passion. And you guys can shove that hashtag up your collective asses.
You get your trumpian brown shirts yet or are they on back order? I mean you are buying a gun because you are scared of BLM, so I expect next you will get your torch and swastika...
It must be an upscale thing to be so scared (Rand)... BUT when you get them Trumpian tools shove them up your ass.
You get your trumpian brown shirts yet or are they on back order? I mean you are buying a gun because you are scared of BLM, so I expect next you will get your torch and swastika...
It must be an upscale thing to be so scared (Rand)... BUT when you get them Trumpian tools shove them up your ass.
Rand and his wife were attacked while trying to walk back to their hotel.I saw the whole tape on my beloved Fox News. They finally got a Cop to help them .He got shoved until he lost his balance. Anybody that condones this kind of punkass action can kiss my ass.
Whiny Rand wasn't attacked, he was protested. Nobody laid a finger on him and that cop got shoved after he did some shoving of his own. ANYONE who served and swore to protect this country and still backs Trump is somebody who doesn't count. You don't count anymore.
You get your trumpian brown shirts yet or are they on back order? I mean you are buying a gun because you are scared of BLM, so I expect next you will get your torch and swastika...
It must be an upscale thing to be so scared (Rand)... BUT when you get them Trumpian tools shove them up your ass.
Today, U.S. Senator Rand Paul (R-KY) introduced the Justice for Breonna Taylor Act to prohibit no-knock warrants, which allow law enforcement officials to forcibly enter a home without announcing their authority or purpose.
The bill is named in memory and honor of Breonna Taylor, a Louisville resident and EMT who was killed during a police raid on her home in March 2020, which was conducted under the authority of a no-knock warrant.
“After talking with Breonna Taylor’s family, I’ve come to the conclusion that it’s long past time to get rid of no-knock warrants. This bill will effectively end no-knock raids in the United States,” said Sen. Paul.
Earlier this week, Senator Paul held a call with Breonna Taylor’s aunt, Bianca Austin, Game Changers Executive Director Christopher 2X, and others fighting for criminal justice reform, where he reiterated his long-standing commitment to ensuring a just and fair system that respects all Americans’ rights, including the need to end no-knock warrants.
Senator Paul’s Justice for Breonna Taylor Act would require federal law enforcement officers to provide notice of their authority and purpose before they could execute a warrant, and it would require the same of any state or local law enforcement agency that receives funds from the Department of Justice.
During his time in Congress, Senator Paul has reached across the aisle and worked with both parties to achieve needed change, sponsoring or cosponsoring over 20 pieces of legislation.
You can read Senator Paul’s Justice for Breonna Taylor Act
It's past time that we adjust/change/correct the legislation that led to Ms. Taylor's death.
I don't care who the legislator is, or what color rag (s)he wears into the arena... if (s)he brings corrective measures to the floor, my tax dollars are working the way they are supposed to work.
Every action our legislative body takes is supposed to make things better for We The People. It's specifically stated in the mandate that sent them to Washington in the first place.
In this particular instance, it really is in America's best interest that John Q. and Jane Q. Public be free from the fear that their front door will be splintered by paramilitary forces while they are watching the latest episode of Top Chef.
--Police shooting and killing blacks is a problem.
--Black-on-black crime is a problem.
--Child trafficking is a problem.
--Too many children born out of wedlock is a problem.
--Domestic abuse is a problem.
--Child abuse is a problem.
--Brothers and sisters living together w/different fathers is a problem.
--Drug abuse is a problem.
--Violence is a problem.
--Destroying our cities is a problem.
I could go on and on and on........but, here is the thing.
The sports-world only boycotts the shooting of the first bullet point. They ignore every other injustice.
This board is a microcosm of what is occurring across the country. How in the hell can you ignore the child sex trafficking trade and focus ONLY on police brutality.
NBA players have set up charities that address many of these issues. For example, the LBJ Charity Does really great work in the Akron Area, especially on poverty and education.
I think you are missing the point that different issues require different responses. There is nobody who is "pro-human trafficking" --- and so it doesn't make sense to boycott an event to highlight it. The best thing to do is donate money - so that human rights organizations can hire people to track traffickers, and rescue children.
Police Shootings are very different. There is a substantial part of the US who think that every police shooting of a minority is justified (nobody will say that as a blanket statement, but plenty of people on this board will come out and justify every individual event). Moreover, there is a broken culture in police forces that is extremely racist - and is self perpetuating.
Unlike child trafficking, black-on-black crime, domestic abuse, etc, police brutality isn't something that can be solved with money. The police have plenty of money, and have a culture that cultivates brutality. They are the authority. This is an area where you need to bring attention, and where you need to stage a boycott.
--Police shooting and killing blacks is a problem.
--Black-on-black crime is a problem.
--Child trafficking is a problem.
--Too many children born out of wedlock is a problem.
--Domestic abuse is a problem.
--Child abuse is a problem.
--Brothers and sisters living together w/different fathers is a problem.
--Drug abuse is a problem.
--Violence is a problem.
--Destroying our cities is a problem.
I could go on and on and on........but, here is the thing.
The sports-world only boycotts the shooting of the first bullet point. They ignore every other injustice.
This board is a microcosm of what is occurring across the country. How in the hell can you ignore the child sex trafficking trade and focus ONLY on police brutality.
NBA players have set up charities that address many of these issues. For example, the LBJ Charity Does really great work in the Akron Area, especially on poverty and education.
I think you are missing the point that different issues require different responses. There is nobody who is "pro-human trafficking" --- and so it doesn't make sense to boycott an event to highlight it. The best thing to do is donate money - so that human rights organizations can hire people to track traffickers, and rescue children.
Police Shootings are very different. There is a substantial part of the US who think that every police shooting of a minority is justified (nobody will say that as a blanket statement, but plenty of people on this board will come out and justify every individual event). Moreover, there is a broken culture in police forces that is extremely racist - and is self perpetuating.
Unlike child trafficking, black-on-black crime, domestic abuse, etc, police brutality isn't something that can be solved with money. The police have plenty of money, and have a culture that cultivates brutality. They are the authority. This is an area where you need to bring attention, and where you need to stage a boycott.
Well said and impossible to disagree with. Clearly.
It was very well said, but it is not impossible to disagree with. That is clearly your opinion. Lukeyoda used dramatic phrasing like 'substantial', 'extremely', 'plenty of people'...all clearly opinions. And to cite this board as evidence of anything is shortsighted to say the least.
Well on a discussion board, when one person presents a popular talking point and perspective, and then someone eloquently and articulately counters the original point, dismantling each and every point in a polite way .... and the response is to close the conversation, to me that indicates that the debate has been proven beyond the point of debate. Just how I see it. It seems to be a trend on these boards: make a claim, statement, position of perspective on a topic ... receive feedback and differing opinions (the point of a discussion board) .... and then the person who made the original statements claims they are being shouted down or their opinion is being suppressed (clearly not the case) and then shutting down the conversation rather than try to discuss, expand, inquire, counter, educate or be educated.
It was very well said, but it is not impossible to disagree with. That is clearly your opinion. Lukeyoda used dramatic phrasing like 'substantial', 'extremely', 'plenty of people'...all clearly opinions. And to cite this board as evidence of anything is shortsighted to say the least.
I disagree w/what Lukeyoda was saying, but I'm not going to call him out over it. I think it's important that all people be allowed to express their opinions w/out being ridiculed, mocked, and having their character questioned. I also don't feel the need to shout him down and have no interest in trying to change his opinions. Freedom of thought and expression are important to me. So, while I disagree w/his take on the situation, I fully believe he has the right to voice his opinions on the matter.
None of what you just said changes the fact that your response to Lukeyoda was an opinion stated as fact.
It's a shame that Vers didn't continue the discussion because I think his post highlights a point that is being overlooked. No matter how many times someone shouts "they have other initiatives for those other things!" I think it's hard for the average Joe Schmoe to reconcile the passion they see for stopping police brutality with the lack of the same amount of passion for these other things. I am not saying it's true that there is a lack of passion for these other things or that things aren't being done, but perception is reality, and it is not common knowledge about efforts to fix all of these things. It creates a disproportionate sense of weight to what is really important and what isn't. When you are trying to convince a group of people to see something your way and help you affect change and they are struggling with this concept, it's going to make it a lot harder to get them on your side.
It's a shame that Vers didn't continue the discussion because I think his post highlights a point that is being overlooked.
I would gladly have an intelligent and fair conversation on the topic. It's just almost impossible to do that on this board though. People misrepresent intentions. They lie about what is being said. They ridicule, insult, and mock others for contrary opinions. I find it best to just say what I want and move on.
Disclaimer: I am not saying that Lukeyoda. I don't know him well enough to say one way or the other. I just thought it best to let his opinions on the matter stand unchallenged.
None of what you just said changes the fact that your response to Lukeyoda was an opinion stated as fact.
It's a shame that Vers didn't continue the discussion because I think his post highlights a point that is being overlooked. No matter how many times someone shouts "they have other initiatives for those other things!" I think it's hard for the average Joe Schmoe to reconcile the passion they see for stopping police brutality with the lack of the same amount of passion for these other things. I am not saying it's true that there is a lack of passion for these other things or that things aren't being done, but perception is reality, and it is not common knowledge about efforts to fix all of these things. It creates a disproportionate sense of weight to what is really important and what isn't. When you are trying to convince a group of people to see something your way and help you affect change and they are struggling with this concept, it's going to make it a lot harder to get them on your side.
I wasn't trying to write something that couldn't be argued with.
I believe that the techniques you use to right the wrongs committed by those in power are very different than the techniques you use to right the wrongs of those that are not in power.
That doesn't mean one thing is more important than the other - per se.
I also object to the "whataboutism" where everybody has to spend all of their effort fixing whatever the author decides is the "biggest wrong" in society. We saw this in the NBA's extremely weak response to China (which I've criticized) -- and now we are seeing this with the "why aren't they talking about trafficking".
Why didn't Gandhi care about starvation? Why wasn't MLK fighting against domestic abuse? Why doesn't Greta Thunberg care about inner city violence or David Hogg about the climate? We can't advance as a society if the only person who is allowed to lead is us is flawless.
Officials Blame Sacramento Antifa For Vandalism After Jacob Blake Protest, Call In National Guard
SACRAMENTO (CBS13) — As they prepare for more planned protests on Friday, authorities are vowing to stop and prosecute the people behind the unrest that took place in Downtown Sacramento on Thursday night after demonstrations over the police shooting of Wisconsin man Jacob Blake.
Crews were boarding up windows and cleaning up broken glass outside the Sacramento County district attorney’s office overnight.
Sacramento County District Attorney Anne Marie Schubert had harsh words for the group who appeared to be behind the destruction.
“The Sacramento District Attorney’s Office was targeted last night by a domestic terrorist and anarchist organization – Sacramento Antifa. This attack was planned,” Schubert wrote in a statement on Friday.
“These anarchists have waged attacks across this country, in major urban cities, including Portland, Seattle and Denver. Their tactics are rooted in organized violence and terror,” Schubert continued.
Now, a fence is put up to keep those who are planning destruction, out.
The building was one of the hardest hit during Thursday night’s demonstrations. Sacramento police say the crowd dispersed around 11 p.m. – but not before causing significant damage throughout downtown.
What started as a peaceful protest Thursday, organized by local group J.U.I.C.E. Sacramento, turned destructive when a second group of people in riot gear started setting fire to government buildings, including the district attorney’s office.
Demonstrators broke windows, spray-painted government buildings and set fires as they walked from Cesar Chavez Plaza to the State Capitol building and back.
It appears the vandals mostly hit government buildings, including a sheriff’s building.
Sacramento County Sheriff Scott Jones said his department had reached out to the California Office of Emergency Services and has requested help from the National Guard.
“It’s been one day and I’m already over it,” Jones said at a Friday press conference where he too excoriated Antifa for the destruction.
The District Attorney’s Office released video Friday, asking the community to identify those responsible in the video.
“Expect to be treated according to your conduct,” said Sheriff Jones.
So how do city leaders feel about the vandalism and destruction in the city?
Sacramento City Councilmember Angelique Ashby said she is proud of the peaceful protests, but said what happened after takes away from the first group’s messages.
“I hope folks don’t lean towards destruction and chaos. I don’t think its necessary, and I don’t think it makes the point they want to make I think were better than that,” Ashby said.
J.U.I.C.E. held the peaceful march through downtown on Thursday. While marching towards the State Capitol, the group ran into Sacramento Mayor Darrell Steinberg, who was having dinner nearby.
“You say one thing, but your actions and then when you go behind closed doors is something totally different,” Nehemiah Johnson from J.U.I.C.E. was heard telling Steinberg.
“That’s not true,” Steinberg replied.
Earlier in the day, the mayor released a statement saying the city was expecting two protests on Thursday. He pleaded with demonstrators to not vandalize or destroy Sacramento businesses.
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“My reaction is that I have great respect for people who are willing to come out to the streets peacefully,” Steinberg said.
Those with J.U.I.C.E. said they won’t protest by breaking windows or instigating violence.
“We have our way that we feel like is going to be the most effective, but we certainly don’t judge anybody else’s way,” said Meg White, with J.U.I.C.E.
Police said no arrests were made on Thursday night, but detectives will be following up on reports of vandalism.
We can’t address race relations in tUSA on a micro level, this is a macro problem. Comparing the ills of humanity, to systemic racism does absolutely nothing for us.
The people not showing compassion to BLM, are the the same people that brought us here. Right and wrong is not debatable.
They're not going to stop. What you have to do is actually listen. Protests are peaceful. Riots are not. If people could remove their heads from where they're firmly planted, it's not that hard to figure out the difference.
People are tired of watching other people who look like them being killed by the police. When they stop protesting nothing ever gets done.
They're not going to stop. What you have to do is actually listen. Protests are peaceful. Riots are not. If people could remove their heads from where they're firmly planted, it's not that hard to figure out the difference.
People are tired of watching other people who look like them being killed by the police. When they stop protesting nothing ever gets done.
And last night again was a bad night. A group of trump supporters had a caravan that happened to have their route go right thru Portland. There was some violence from both sides and member of the caravan was shot and killed. They don't know how it happened.
Tear gas was being deployed in DC. I saw a live stream-at the time I watched, there didn't seem to be that many protesting. i was busy most of the day and didn't look at the stream until about 11pm.
and trump is supposed to go to Kenosha on Tuesday-I think that is going to add more fuel to the fire-
Adding fuel to the fire is his specialty. I wonder how many from the right will be talking about the caravan being outside agitators and spreading violence? I'm not holding my breath on that one.
Adding fuel to the fire is his specialty. I wonder how many from the right will be talking about the caravan being outside agitators and spreading violence? I'm not holding my breath on that one.
I thought only a small percentage of people are being lawless. Is that only for one side?
Maybe you can do the math on what percentage 200 is out of 2000. I'll give you a hint. It's 10%. And yet people exactly like myself have condemned the lawless acts that are being committed. We have advocated they be arrested and convicted for their crimes.
Aren't you the one who is always stating that there is a difference between peaceful protest and rioters? And that the unlawful rioters are a small percentage of the protesters? I just thought it was funny you now wanted to shine light on the unlawfulness because it was the other side.
You don't owe anyone anything. And I certainly didn't expect anything. You didn't disappoint.
Like I said and you wish to ignore because you really don't have an answer for it... I have called out those who are committing crimes from the left. Yet I certainly don't expect you to do the same.
If he shot the guy they can hang him, but NGO is putting him on front street without even knowing if he was the shooter! Very dangerous and irresponsible of NGO.
If he shot the guy they can hang him, but NGO is putting him on front street without even knowing if he was the shooter! Very dangerous and irresponsible of NGO.
If he shot the guy they can hang him, but NGO is putting him on front street without even knowing if he was the shooter! Very dangerous and irresponsible of NGO.
I'm guessing the authorities have named him.
Not officially - but anonymous sources affiliated with the police have:
I challenge any MSM reporter or Dem who has repeated the lie that these are "mostly peaceful protests" to prove it and show up to a "protest" in Portland this week for a few hours wearing a red #MAGA hat...Then come back and let us all know how "peaceful" things went for you!
Conservatives still whining about the TVs that cost 25 bucks to build in a country they despised, which is also insured anyway. Those stores are getting their money back.
People who are killed by cops unjustly are not getting their lives back.
There are a lot of businesses that don't insure against everything (there are lots of types of insurance to consider) and a lot of innocent business owners are going to lose everything. Insurance gets expensive and when there is a lot of crime, the cost of some insurance just goes up.
I know that you didn't mean it like this, but you are coming close to using insurance as a rationalization for crime. Just be mindful of this. It's a slippery slope because homes and lives can be insured as well. Doesn't make it okay to burn down someones home or, as you pointed out, murder someone.
He did mean it like that. This is one reason why BLM is a terrorist organization.
The right is a radical extremist group. The alt right is a terrorist organization. Trump is just human scum.
The left is a radical extremist group. BLM is by FBI definition a terrorist organization. Biden is a puppet with alt left socialist hands up his ass.
Let me fact check for you:
No, Black Lives Matter is not a terrorist organization
Quote:
IF YOUR TIME IS SHORT The State Department keeps a list of foreign groups that have been formally designated terrorist organizations. Black Lives Matter, a domestic organization, is not on it.
There is no legal process for designating domestic groups as terrorist organizations.
Black Lives Matter is not listed as a perpetrator group in a global database of nearly 200,000 terrorism incidents.
Well anyways .....nearly 200,000 Americans lives lost under trump’s America, trump’s virus. American streets are on fire under trumps watch.
Now trump steps off the golf course to visit Kenosha. he's trying to turn racial unrest into an election advantage and fan the flames of hate. trump’s America
“state and local leaders urged Trump not to come to Kenosha. In a letter to the president, Wisconsin Gov. Tony Evers said, "I am concerned your presence will only hinder our healing."
‘Evers wrote he is concerned the visit "will require a massive redirection" of resources to support the president's visit "when it is critical that we continue to remain focused on keeping the people of Kenosha safe and supporting the community's response."
In trump’s America minorities don’t get equal support or equal safeguards.
Nope last call in Ohio is at 10 PM. No drinks served after 10 PM and bars must be closed by 11 PM
I question the sanity of anyone hanging out and chilling at a bar during this pandemic that trump supporters call a hoax. Especially down south in those red states that can’t get the trump virus under control at all.
[img]Well anyways .....nearly 200,000 Americans lives lost under trump’s America, trump’s virus. American streets are on fire under trumps watch. [/img]
Which, if anyone needs a reminder, would go completely unchecked if Biden gets elected.
A Vote for Biden is a vote for 4 more years of Pelosi's Tyrany and Shumur's Vice Tyrany.
As Lyd just wrote and implied ... when does the person in charge take responsibility for the climate and events that took place and developed under his watch? How come the guy in charge, who sets the tone, who cultivated an environment where it's okay to say such stupid things as "The free press is the enemy of the USA" .... who retweets whacky conspiracy theories, panders to the supremacists, points fingers at everyone and claims everything bad is a plot to unseat him .... when is that guy going to be held responsible?
And on the flip side is it okay with people that he falsely takes credit for signing the Veterans Choice health care law, or for trying to take the credit for bringing the Black unemployment numbers down etc.
Or does it simply not matter how much and how often and how badly he lies and deflects and cries victim ... or if he has more affairs and pays off porn stars ... or has more audio of him bragging about being a sexual abuser/predator .... because at the end of the day he's not a Democrat and folks will simply sell their soul rather than vote for a Democrat?
Portland mayor says he’ll move after protest outside his condo building draws arrests, widespread calls for change
Portland Mayor Ted Wheeler says he’s looking for a new place to live after his Pearl District condo building has been the site of repeated demonstrations, including on Monday when crowds demanded he resign and some people set fires and broke windows.
In an email Tuesday from Wheeler to other residents of the 16-floor high-rise tower, the mayor said it would be “best for me and for everyone else’s safety and peace” that he finds a new home. He assured people that police are taking their safety concerns seriously and invited them to a Thursday evening meeting that will include himself and officers to voice their concerns.
“I want to express my sincere apologies for the damage to our home and the fear that you are experiencing due to my position,” according to a screenshot of the email sent to The Oregonian/OregonLive. “It’s unfair to all of you who have no role in politics or in my administration.”
The building has 114 units and retail space on the bottom floor. Wheeler bought his two-bedroom condo for $840,000 in 2017, according to Multnomah County property records.
Protests calling for policing and social justice reforms have taken place daily throughout the city since late May. Demonstrators have gathered outside Wheeler’s condo building sporadically since mid-June — at least twice when he was not there. On Monday, Wheeler’s 58th birthday, some in a group of more than 200 graffitied and damaged the building and sidewalk and threw a burning bundle of newspapers into retail space in the building.
Police arrested 19 people during the demonstration. Most are accused of disorderly conduct and interfering with a peace officer; the latter is the most common accusation levied against protesters arrested during demonstrations over the last three months.
A widely circulated video recorded by an Oregon Public Broadcasting reporter during the overnight demonstration shows one Portland officer tackling another person to the ground and repeatedly punching them in the head.
The mayor’s office said Tuesday that case will likely be reviewed by the city’s Independent Police Review. In a public statement, Wheeler described both the officer’s punches and damages to the area buildings as “senseless violence.”
“These acts range from stupid, to dangerous, to criminal,” Wheeler said. “The violence must stop. None of this should sit well with any thinking Portlander.”
The demonstration also drew a response from Portland Police Chief Chuck Lovell, who called on elected officials to “draw a line in the sand and to hold people accountable.” He did not address any footage of officers attacking people. Oregon House Speaker Tina Kotek called for greater acknowledgement by elected officials of Portland police’s role in violence that occurs during nightly protests. Kotek, who represents parts of North and Northeast Portland, said officers who use excessive force should be held “sufficiently accountable.”
I wonder if anyone here even knows that the vast majority of cities,, be they run by Dems or Reps, is peaceful...
I mean the way some people put it, the country is burning down.... That's just not true.
Here's the NYC data. In general the city looks pretty good compared to 10 years ago (murders down 22% for instance). Generally things are a bit worse than 2 years ago, but maybe to be expected due to unemployment, etc.
Yet McConnell controls the senate and Trump is president. Bills passed by congress are stacked up on McConnell's desk who refuses to even bring them to the senate for debate. See, that's where you work on compromise to bills. There can be no compromise on anything if they're never brought to the senate floor.
Yeah, blaming someone else for this mess is Trump and his supporters only hope at this juncture. #thepartyoffear
Portland mayor says he’ll move after protest outside his condo building draws arrests, widespread calls for change
Portland Mayor Ted Wheeler says he’s looking for a new place to live after his Pearl District condo building has been the site of repeated demonstrations, including on Monday when crowds demanded he resign and some people set fires and broke windows.
In an email Tuesday from Wheeler to other residents of the 16-floor high-rise tower, the mayor said it would be “best for me and for everyone else’s safety and peace” that he finds a new home. He assured people that police are taking their safety concerns seriously and invited them to a Thursday evening meeting that will include himself and officers to voice their concerns.
“I want to express my sincere apologies for the damage to our home and the fear that you are experiencing due to my position,” according to a screenshot of the email sent to The Oregonian/OregonLive. “It’s unfair to all of you who have no role in politics or in my administration.”
The building has 114 units and retail space on the bottom floor. Wheeler bought his two-bedroom condo for $840,000 in 2017, according to Multnomah County property records.
Protests calling for policing and social justice reforms have taken place daily throughout the city since late May. Demonstrators have gathered outside Wheeler’s condo building sporadically since mid-June — at least twice when he was not there. On Monday, Wheeler’s 58th birthday, some in a group of more than 200 graffitied and damaged the building and sidewalk and threw a burning bundle of newspapers into retail space in the building.
Police arrested 19 people during the demonstration. Most are accused of disorderly conduct and interfering with a peace officer; the latter is the most common accusation levied against protesters arrested during demonstrations over the last three months.
A widely circulated video recorded by an Oregon Public Broadcasting reporter during the overnight demonstration shows one Portland officer tackling another person to the ground and repeatedly punching them in the head.
The mayor’s office said Tuesday that case will likely be reviewed by the city’s Independent Police Review. In a public statement, Wheeler described both the officer’s punches and damages to the area buildings as “senseless violence.”
“These acts range from stupid, to dangerous, to criminal,” Wheeler said. “The violence must stop. None of this should sit well with any thinking Portlander.”
The demonstration also drew a response from Portland Police Chief Chuck Lovell, who called on elected officials to “draw a line in the sand and to hold people accountable.” He did not address any footage of officers attacking people. Oregon House Speaker Tina Kotek called for greater acknowledgement by elected officials of Portland police’s role in violence that occurs during nightly protests. Kotek, who represents parts of North and Northeast Portland, said officers who use excessive force should be held “sufficiently accountable.”
We've had a TON of posters condemning the rioting and looting and trying to paint it at the door of "The Left" in general.
Generally everyone is against rioting, violence and looting ... even though some refuse to acknowledge that.
I wonder if everyone can agree that BOTH "sides" have thugs and idiots stroking the flames of violence and hatred. We've said this before but not had any acknowledgement.
Wonder if people can realize that Trump owns the culture and tone we are witnessing in the Nation? How many tweets do we have from Trump telling Obama that the man at the top has to take responsibility for what happens under their watch? It's a joke that Trump strokes fear and division and then the blame for violence erupting is placed elsewhere. Anyone think that Branden Wolfe is part of an organized attempt to usurp Trump??? Anyone think Ngo is going to cover this in great detail??
These violent black looters dont look like part of a white extremest group. They look like BLM, because BLM leaders openly support looting and make public excuses for it. "reparations" "insurance will pay for it"
So I'll take that as you refuse to answer it. You refuse to admit that right wing fringe groups are also involved. Pretty much as expected.
Biden has been speaking out against the violence since May. The fact is trying to tie a candidate who has spoke out against the violence into the discussion holds no merit.
That's ridiculous. It's moderate right wingers disagreeing with the alt(far) right wing POTUS. How in hell does that have anything to do with leftist? Just because I/we share the tweets? GMAB.
That's ridiculous. It's moderate right wingers disagreeing with the alt(far) right wing POTUS. How in hell does that have anything to do with leftist? Just because I/we share the tweets? GMAB.
moderate right wingers are leftists to trump supporters
Constantly tweeting about Trump being unfit, crazy, not well while promoting tweets from Joe Biden is a level of intellectual dishonesty that only hardcore partisans could come up with.
I'm disregarding the articles you posted that either don't work, were from a few years ago, or blame Trump or Facebook groups for rioting and looting. These people are actively deciding on their own, right or left, to do these things. To try and blame their choices and the frequency of all of this on something other than themselves is terribly weak and is part of a poor argument.
Now, for the few Richmond articles you posted that referred people to Nazis and White Supremacists, I think the headings are rather misleading and the content incorrect as I share below. These people they are referring to are the Boogaloo Boys, yet to attract attention/clicks (and anger) they are labeled the aforementioned names. I have no doubt people in these far-right cells are participating in rioting largely organized by far-left groups like Antifa and BLM radicals, but I think people need to understand their corrupt reasoning. Their mission is alluded to in maybe one article but I think this article posted a few days later with more information while quoting a research fellow from GWU does a much better job and the evaluation of this group and the Richmond incident:
Quote:
But Richmond officials have presented no direct evidence showing white supremacists organized the protest, encouraged violence or participated in any property damage. Early Tuesday afternoon, The Virginia Mercury asked officials to clarify the basis for the mayor’s comments. As of Wednesday evening, neither the Richmond Police Department nor the mayor’s office had provided additional evidence of white supremacist influence.
The confusion in Richmond appeared to arise from an unlikely alliance between members of Black Lives Matter 757, an independent, Hampton Roads-area group that has clashed with other Black Lives Matter leaders and progressive organizers, and a boogaloo supporter named Mike Dunn, who appeared with the BLM757 group in Richmond. Dunn insists he is not a white supremacist and both he and BLM757 say Dunn’s group had left the protest before it turned raucous.....
.....“Based on police intelligence, the mayor believes the boogaloos and the alt-right played a role in influencing and inciting the events that unfolded Saturday night,” Nolan said. “This does not preclude the known involvement of antifa and other protesters from inside and outside of the city whom police and the mayor believe also played a role.”
.....In an interview, JaPharii Jones, the leader of BLM757, said he does not believe Dunn is a white supremacist and insisted Dunn’s group left “before any of the mayhem even started.”
......Other Richmond-area activists have also said the boogaloo group left the protest quickly after other protesters identified them.
Quote:
J.J. MacNab, a research fellow at George Washington University’s Program on Extremism who studies right-wing extremist groups, said it’s incorrect to assume anyone in boogaloo garb holds white supremacist beliefs. “Anybody can be a boogaloo just by wearing a Hawaiian shirt with a gun,” MacNab said, adding that she too didn’t fully understand the basis for the claim of white supremacist involvement in Richmond. MacNab said there have been examples of boogaloo boys marching with Black Lives Matter protesters in about a dozen states, largely because they see police as a “shared enemy.”
The mission of the boogaloo movement, MacNab said, is “accelerationism,” a general push toward civil war or an armed uprising against the government, though not necessarily race-based.
Another side is characterized as radical libertarian, notably men carrying weapons and wearing Hawaiian shirts. Some have recently been spotted at Black Lives Matter protests, waving anti-police signs alongside protesters, Newhouse said. They believe in defending the rights of individuals against the government and have been known to incite violence against police.
The libertarian side of the movement becomes enraged when referred to as a "white supremacist group," said JJ MacNab, research fellow at George Washington University’s Program on Extremism. She said there are some Black and Hispanic members.
"The earlier boogaloos were white supremacist," MacNab said. "The ones that came later did not inherit that side of the belief system. Most of them aren’t even aware of white supremacy in subsets of the movement until they read it in the newspapers. A vast majority on Facebook are adamantly against it."
The boogaloo bois' relationship to antifa – left-leaning, anti-racist groups that monitor and track the activities of neo-Nazis – is murkier. The libertarian side of the movement is split between members who see antifa as communists, whom they want to dissociate from, and members who see them as "brothers-in-arms," MacNab said.
These Boogalooo Boys are a problem and their activities should be condemned for their anti-democratic views, endeavor for war, and destructive intentions. To me, although lesser of a threat than Antifa, share a common mission, explained rather well by VOX of all places:
Quote:
“They have no allegiance to liberal democracy, which they believe has failed the marginalized communities they’re defending. They’re anarchists and communists who are way outside the traditional conservative-liberal spectrum.”
A good example of this is the harassment of Mayor Wheeler not only at his residence but even when he was out during the rioting/protesting. Antifa harrassed him, was physical with him, and called for his resignation. The fact he still doesn't condemn this group is mind-boggling, but I digress.
Both Antifa and The Boogaloo Boys need to called out for their actions and dismantled as quickly as possible. However, the immediacy in which people claim white supremacy in every headline should also be called out, as well as those who perpetuate it. Especially with so much racial unrest going on in this country.
But to address your point which you were attempting to make but did a rather poor job at it.... of course there are people both left and right out there rioting. I don't think anyone here disputes that. The stance is there is overwhelming evidence that groups like Antifa are the driving force behind these events. I think I've used the phrase "vast majority" and I stand by that. They are organizing, rallying support, and executing their intent. Are there parasite groups that latch on to either assist or ramp up notoriety or incite.....I have no doubt.
Look at what they do. They refuse to take the blame for anything far right wing groups do. They pretend that it's only those on the left involved.
I have no problem admitting that there are the fringe of the far left that are committing crimes on the streets of our cities. That's what accountability looks like. Yet for republicans, accountability has become a thing of the past. As we watch on our TV in our very own living rooms truck loads of armed Trump supporters at the site of the riots, engaging in inciting further violence and conflict, all they can do is say, "Nuh uh."
Boogaloo boys were actually tracked down from their social media accounts and arrested in Columbia South Carolina. One charged with breaking into a motor vehicle, looting, larceny and possession of marijuana with intent to distribute, based on videos from the riots.
The party of personal responsibility exists no more. And they wonder why sensible Republicans are leaving their side. Why groups like The Lincoln Project, who has raised almost 17 million dollars as of mid July. There are The Republican Voters Against Trump. You have veterans against Trump. Vote vets.
More and more Republicans are speaking out against Trump and all they can do is throw arrows at them in denial that a lot of normal Republicans see the man for what he is and no longer want their party associated with him.
Feds and Police May Have Figured Out a Clever Way to Circumvent the Failure to Prosecute Rioters in Portland
September 2, 2020
by Nick Arama
One of the problems in dealing with the rioters in Portland is that the Multnomah County DA Mike Schmidt is not holding or charging most of the people arrested, meaning they were free to keep rioting and there were no real consequences for their actions.
Gov. Kate Brown said that she had a “plan” for dealing with the rioters which involved calling in assistance from sheriffs’ offices from nearby counties. But apparently she hadn’t even asked them before she announced the plan and they said no, because why should they come in to help, only to have the cases dismissed? Their reply made it clear that the problem was in the failure to hold the criminals accountable.
But now the feds and the Oregon State Police may have come up with a clever way of getting around Schmidt.
The Oregon State Police confirmed that they are working with the U.S. Attorney’s office to see what arrests they’ve made could qualify for federal charges. Plus, on top of that, the U.S. Marshals have federally deputized the troopers making them essentially federal agents. So if the rioters attack them, they are attacking federal agents and can be prosecuted for it by the U.S. Attorney’s Office. Rioters attack them in virtually every riot.
From KOIN:
“OSP is not criticizing any officials and we respect the authority of the [Multnomah County] District Attorney, but to meet the Governor’s charge of bringing violence to an end we will use all lawful methods at our disposal,” an Oregon State Police spokesperson said. [….]
“The U.S. Attorney and Multnomah County D.A. work together every day deciding which cases each will prosecute.”
Part of the reason this came about was that they had the OSP helping to protect the federal courthouse so the deputizing was to give them more freedom of movement in the courthouse. But now it has the added benefit of giving more prosecutorial options.
Way to go, feds. Even with Democratic political fail, the federal government is doing what it can to help out and shut down the crazy.
All of this is being incited and or intensified by the Trump campaign and Trump himself. Trump feels that he needs to generate as much fear as he can in his base, centrist dems, and independent (mostly) white voters. He has openly said fear is the best way to govern, just like a dictator.
And I don't like the violence and destruction from those rioting regardless of who it actually is that is sparking the riots and looting in these racially charged hotspots. But I have to ask serious questions like how is the damage and cost of working class people rioting and looting any higher than the decisions made behind closed doors in corporate board meetings every day?
Corps sent jobs overseas to the detriment of the working class. Corps pay starvation wages to the detriment of the working class. Corps created the trade deficits with China and many other countries to the detriment of the working class. Corps buy and sell politicians to manipulate laws to the detriment of the working class. Corps are considered people but they don't go to jail or get shot in the back at point blank range. Corps don't vote or have citizenship. Corps commit fraud, sell products that destroy lives or kill, rig our political system, and run often criminal enterprises on a global scale with relative impunity! Corps can wipe out a person, family, community, economy, country, and even the world's markets knowing that even if they are caught it will only cost them pennies on the dollar to pay a fine! Rarely does anyone go to jail or even get called a criminal...
Yet when working class people peacefully take a stand for the INJUSTICE of blacks being targeted and killed by cops at a crazy disproportional rate compared to others, only to be incited to rioting and looting by outside influences and circumstances that keep factions of divided Americans infighting... Somehow that's all on BLM, ANTIFA and the Left?
When did the guaranteed constitutional right to protest suddenly become a radical extremist political, cultural, religious, race based class war/crime against the country when it's working class and poor people make a stand?
And why is this 'radical extremist' criminal classification held in much different regard than the same or worse type of crimes committed by corps every damn day? There is no excuse for the riots and looting or other crimes committed during the protests. But even as much of it as we have seen recently, the cost is miniscule compared to what has happened in the corporate boardrooms since the 50s.
Yet our POTUS paints it as the end of all things American for his political advantage, and condemns those who are not like him and his corporate/billionaire buddies (above the law)or those who have different political views. The POTUS views people like me as un American radical extremist leftist and not as a person who is a citizen with constitutionally guaranteed rights. The POTUS is trying to declare war on people like me, citizens like you, and somehow half the country thinks this is acceptable... half think it's okay to kill a person based on the color of their skin... half think it's ok to devalue the life of others based on political views, religion, country of origin, size of your bank account, and or color of your skin...
But BLM and ANTIFA is a problem... not the Corps that created so much inequality, not the POTUS who divides and runs a wannabe fascist admin, not the violent gun toting, bible thumping, racist white supremacy militia types instigating violence and killing people... NOPE, not those bad actors... It's all BLM and ANTIFA.
So most people championing how dangerous and violent BLM is and Antifa .... COMPLETELY IGNORE THE ALT RIGHT SUPREMACIST WHO ACTED AS IF HE WAS BLM TO MAKE THEM LOOK BAD !!!
While I certainly do not dismiss the points you made, I actually agree with them. However I do believe it's a false equivalency. The deck has certainly been stacked in favor of large corporations. That point is certainly clear. As much as I dislike the way the laws have been set up however, for the most part the things you have brought up are within the confines of the law.
That is most certainly a shame yet it's true. Let's take how the blame falls on the unions by many people. I think people certainly make a valid point that unions went too far in many cases. I mean it has gotten to the point it's almost impossible to fire anyone in some major unions. Yet it's the only actual protection that your average worker has to protect themselves.
Rather than place the blame on the corporations, they blame the unions for job losses. The reality of the situation is that with or without unions, some of the nations these corporations move jobs to have wages that an American couldn't possibly live on with or without a union.
But let's look at another factor. We lose jobs to nations like Canada. It's not due to the wage discrepancy. Regulations are not all that much different. Those are the two major factors many blame the loss of American jobs on. But let's be honest here, the difference between us and Canada have to do with health care. Can you just imagine the savings a corporations rakes in by not having to provide an employee with healthcare benefits over the course of 30 years? Multiply by the number of employees in a big automotive factory and the answer as to why we are losing jobs to a place like Canada becomes painfully obvious.
But back to the main topic. We and almost everyone who is not a Republican certainly do not condone criminal acts that we see on our streets. I'm sure you would agree that they should be arrested and prosecuted for their crimes.
But what we see is the usual bait and switch con game. Take the focus away from the message trying to end police brutality and focus on the violence. Ignore the actual message of the average protestor on the street and attack the organization BLM rather than why these protestors are there. Most of the very same people we see doing this are actually aware of the difference between the movement and the organization. Yet that doesn't stop them from twisting the message they are trying to push.
If they can take the focus away from why the vast majority of the people are protesting and instead bring the focus on the small percentage of those wreaking havoc, their message becomes easy to sell. As per usual, Trump paves the way and his followers spread the disinformation.
Feds and Police May Have Figured Out a Clever Way to Circumvent the Failure to Prosecute Rioters in Portland
September 2, 2020
by Nick Arama
One of the problems in dealing with the rioters in Portland is that the Multnomah County DA Mike Schmidt is not holding or charging most of the people arrested, meaning they were free to keep rioting and there were no real consequences for their actions.
Gov. Kate Brown said that she had a “plan” for dealing with the rioters which involved calling in assistance from sheriffs’ offices from nearby counties. But apparently she hadn’t even asked them before she announced the plan and they said no, because why should they come in to help, only to have the cases dismissed? Their reply made it clear that the problem was in the failure to hold the criminals accountable.
But now the feds and the Oregon State Police may have come up with a clever way of getting around Schmidt.
The Oregon State Police confirmed that they are working with the U.S. Attorney’s office to see what arrests they’ve made could qualify for federal charges. Plus, on top of that, the U.S. Marshals have federally deputized the troopers making them essentially federal agents. So if the rioters attack them, they are attacking federal agents and can be prosecuted for it by the U.S. Attorney’s Office. Rioters attack them in virtually every riot.
From KOIN:
“OSP is not criticizing any officials and we respect the authority of the [Multnomah County] District Attorney, but to meet the Governor’s charge of bringing violence to an end we will use all lawful methods at our disposal,” an Oregon State Police spokesperson said. [….]
“The U.S. Attorney and Multnomah County D.A. work together every day deciding which cases each will prosecute.”
Part of the reason this came about was that they had the OSP helping to protect the federal courthouse so the deputizing was to give them more freedom of movement in the courthouse. But now it has the added benefit of giving more prosecutorial options.
Way to go, feds. Even with Democratic political fail, the federal government is doing what it can to help out and shut down the crazy.
Fascist overreach! Trump shredding the constitution again. That DA was elected by the people he serves. He is not a rubber stamp prosecutor for Trump or Barr and it his sole responsibility to make the decisions he is making rather your political views align or not. There is NOTHING right about circumventing the law... smh
Fascism isn't knocking on the door, it's here and has been for the last 4 years. I simply can't like or defend anyone who supports or wants fascism in America. And why are GOPers so concerned with what is happening in urban "Democrat Cities"? How does that remotely affect rural Trump supporters other than give them a reason to play with their guns and spread hate/fear amongst their klans.
If the GOP would call off the militant right's involvement, most of the rioting and looting would end AND even the protest would lose steam. But the right is fanning the flames just to try and lay the responsibility for the riots and looting at dems feet. SHAMEFUL!!!
EDIT: BTW - Show me where BLM or ANTIFA have killed anyone? So far all the people I've read about doing the killing have been right wingers and cops. But gunning down citizens in the streets is all cool with the right? And somehow BLM and ANTIFAs fault? GMAB
April identified her brother to police after the deadly Portland shooting, saying he was verbally abusive to their dementia-stricken mother and in a “downward spiral” of debt after a failed career as a professional snowboarder.
The violence is now white on white violence. Whites killing whites. Antifa fighting White supremacy trump supporters spraying everyone with tear gas. BLM the only peaceful protesters now.
The violence is now white on white violence. Whites killing whites. Antifa fighting White supremacy trump supporters spraying everyone with tear gas. BLM the only peaceful protesters now.
I yi yi yi. And not one person challenged that post. It's not about right vs wrong on this board. It's about which agenda you favor.
The violence is now white on white violence. Whites killing whites. Antifa fighting White supremacy trump supporters spraying everyone with tear gas. BLM the only peaceful protesters now.
I yi yi yi. And not one person challenged that post. It's not about right vs wrong on this board. It's about which agenda you favor.
The dude has stated on several occasions that everyone who voted for Trump is a racist and a Nazi. There were other labels, but I don't feel like looking them up.
I don't know........but, I probably don't belong in this forum. I don't like all the name-calling and one-sided rhetoric by either side. And yes, I realize the "I probably don't belong in this forum" quote will only lead to more insults.
I just find it very depressing how hateful so many people are.
I don't claim all Trump supporters are Nazi's and or racist. What I do say is they certainly have no problem with voting for and supporting we have a president who is one.
93% of Black Lives Matter Protests Have Been Peaceful, New Report Finds
BY SANYA MANSOOR SEPTEMBER 5, 2020 11:47 AM EDT
The vast majority of Black Lives Matter protests—more than 93%—have been peaceful, according to a new report published Thursday by a nonprofit that researches political violence and protests across the world.
The Armed Conflict Location & Event Data Project (ACLED) analyzed more than 7,750 Black Lives Matter demonstrations in all 50 states and Washington D.C. that took place in the wake of George Floyd’s death between May 26 and August 22.
Their report states that more than 2,400 locations reported peaceful protests, while fewer than 220 reported “violent demonstrations.” The authors define violent demonstrations as including “acts targeting other individuals, property, businesses, other rioting groups or armed actors.” Their definition includes anything from “fighting back against police” to vandalism, property destruction looting, road-blocking using barricades, burning tires or other materials. In cities where protests did turn violent—these demonstrations are “largely confined to specific blocks,” the report says.
The ACLED report includes protests toppling statues of “colonial figures, slave owners and Confederate leaders” as violent incidents. “Since Floyd’s killing, there have been at least 38 incidents in which demonstrators have significantly damaged or torn down memorials around the country,” the report states.
Still, many people continue to believe that Black Lives Matter protests are largely violent—contrary to the report’s findings. ACLED highlights a recent Morning Consult poll in which 42% of respondents believe “most protesters (associated with the BLM movement) are trying to incite violence or destroy property.” ACLED suggests this “disparity stems from political orientation and biased media framing… such as disproportionate coverage of violent demonstrations.”
U.S.-based ACLED is funded by the State Department’s Bureau of Conflict and Stabilization Operations as well as foreign governments and other organizations, including the Dutch Ministry of Foreign Affairs, the German Federal Foreign Office, the Tableau Foundation, the International Organization for Migration, and The University of Texas at Austin. It relied on data collection from the U.S. Crisis Monitor—a joint project led by ACLED and Princeton University’s Bridging Divides Initiative—that tracks and publishes real-time data on political violence and demonstrations in the U.S in order to “establish an evidence base from which to identify risks, hotspots and available resources to empower local communities in times of crisis.”
ACLED also highlights a “violent government response,” in which authorities “use force more often than not” when they are present at protests and that they “disproportionately used force while intervening in demonstrations associated with the BLM movement, relative to other types of demonstrations.” The report also references “dozens of car-ramming attacks” on protesters by various individuals, some of whom have ties to hate groups like the Ku Klux Klan.
ACLED warns in the report that the U.S. “is at heightened risk of political violence and instability going into the 2020 general election,” citing trends in mass shootings, violent hate crimes and police killings. The authors of the report say the Trump administration has exacerbated tensions caused by racial inequality and police brutality. President Donald Trump and high-ranking members of his administration have frequently generalized protesters as violent anarchists.
...and the vast majority of the rioting and looting is carried out by leftist/antifa types, but that doesn't stop liberals from focusing on the outliers.
Do you know if those people even vote or affiliate themselves with either party?
The outliers? Since when are 93% of protests being peaceful equal "outliers"? Wouldn't that be the 7% of protests? Wouldn't outliers be the low percentage of protestors who actually conduct criminal activity rather than the vast majority of those who don't?
Do you know if those people even vote or affiliate themselves with either party?
The outliers? Since when are 93% of protests being peaceful equal "outliers"? Wouldn't that be the 7% of protests? Wouldn't outliers be the low percentage of protestors who actually conduct criminal activity rather than the vast majority of those who don't?
Yes, outliers is the low % ... And of the 7% we already know a high percentage of that number is made up of Alt Right groups trying to use the violence as a means to generate bad media coverage and stuck it to BLM etc .... But we know that isn't recognized by many who want to use that 7% to bring fear and loathing to the fire.
Hey Pit, Having lived in Troy I'm sure you probably are familiar with the Civil War statue in Pleasant Hill. Guess it was on the local news the other day that Antifa was going to show up and tear it down. Don't know why as it's a monument to the Union soldiers who died in defense of the Union.
Ninety-three percent of these demonstrations were peaceful, but that indicated that approximately 543 events were violent, according to ACLED’s statistics.
...And of the 7% we already know a high percentage of that number is made up of Alt Right groups trying to use the violence as a means to generate bad media coverage and stuck it to BLM etc
What do you mean by "high percentage"? A huge majority of those rioting and looting are alt left/antifa types. You'd have to be ignorant not to see that. Sure there are right wing wack jobs causing trouble to make the left look bad, but don't try and say it's a "high percentage" of those causing the trouble.
...And of the 7% we already know a high percentage of that number is made up of Alt Right groups trying to use the violence as a means to generate bad media coverage and stuck it to BLM etc
What do you mean by "high percentage"? A huge majority of those rioting and looting are alt left/antifa types. You'd have to be ignorant not to see that. Sure there are right wing wack jobs causing trouble to make the left look bad, but don't try and say it's a "high percentage" of those causing the trouble.
High percentage ? Maybe that's a bad choice of words. "significant percentage" would be better.
As for you saying the rest is left wing antifa types...I don't agree at all. Most of them are simply lawless thugs without any political persuasion. I'd be happy for all of them to be caught and prosecuted appropriately.
Hey Pit, Having lived in Troy I'm sure you probably are familiar with the Civil War statue in Pleasant Hill. Guess it was on the local news the other day that Antifa was going to show up and tear it down. Don't know why as it's a monument to the Union soldiers who died in defense of the Union.
I see it as the far extreme and how the right uses that to try and label that as depicting Democrats as a whole. Just like they do when they rant about the 7% of the protests being violent while staying silent about the fact that 93% of them are peaceful.
Just like when the left does the same thing with White Supremacists and the KKK. They portray that as representing what the right stands for. It's just what people do and neither side is any less guilty of it than the other.
What the right doesn't want to do is admit that the average Democrat nominated the most moderate candidate that ran for the nomination. That Biden is and always has been a moderate. That's he's not some left wing socialist. It's in their best interest to avoid that and look at the extremists and scream about that. Then ignore and make excuses for all of the chaos Trump sows.
As for you saying the rest is left wing antifa types...I don't agree at all. Most of them are simply lawless thugs without any political persuasion. I'd be happy for all of them to be caught and prosecuted appropriately.
It's odd how most everyone I see on the left, including Biden, stand up for law and order. How we all hope they are caught and prosecuted. Then despite all of that, they claim we are the one's who stand for lawlessness.
Alleged Boogaloo members face terrorism charges in Minnesota
MINNEAPOLIS (AP) — Two men who prosecutors say are members of an anti-government extremist group, who toted guns on Minneapolis streets during unrest following the death of George Floyd and spoke about shooting police, blowing up a courthouse and killing politicians, have been charged with federal terrorism counts.
Michael Robert Solomon, 30, of New Brighton, Minnesota, and Benjamin Ryan Teeter, 22, of Hampstead, North Carolina, are members of the “Boogaloo Bois,” authorities say.
They are charged with conspiring to provide and attempting to provide material support to a foreign terrorist organization, for allegedly building firearms suppressors that they believed they sold to Hamas, and for allegedly offering to fight as “mercenaries” for the group.
Assistant Attorney General John Demers said in a statement that people who seek to engage in terrorist activity will be held accountable, “no matter what witch’s brew of ideological motivations inspire” them.
Solomon and Teeter made their first court appearances via videoconference Friday in U.S. District Court. They were both appointed federal defenders, but attorneys were not immediately assigned to comment on their behalf.
1 of 3 This undated photo provided by the Sherburne County Sheriff's Office shows Michael Robert Solomon. Solomon and Benjamin Ryan Teeter who prosecutors say are members of an anti-government extremist group, who toted guns on Minneapolis streets during unrest following the death of George Floyd and spoke about shooting police, blowing up a courthouse and killing politicians, have been charged with federal terrorism counts. (Sherburne County Sheriff's Office via AP)
MINNEAPOLIS (AP) — Two men who prosecutors say are members of an anti-government extremist group, who toted guns on Minneapolis streets during unrest following the death of George Floyd and spoke about shooting police, blowing up a courthouse and killing politicians, have been charged with federal terrorism counts.
Michael Robert Solomon, 30, of New Brighton, Minnesota, and Benjamin Ryan Teeter, 22, of Hampstead, North Carolina, are members of the “Boogaloo Bois,” authorities say.
They are charged with conspiring to provide and attempting to provide material support to a foreign terrorist organization, for allegedly building firearms suppressors that they believed they sold to Hamas, and for allegedly offering to fight as “mercenaries” for the group.
Assistant Attorney General John Demers said in a statement that people who seek to engage in terrorist activity will be held accountable, “no matter what witch’s brew of ideological motivations inspire” them.
Solomon and Teeter made their first court appearances via videoconference Friday in U.S. District Court. They were both appointed federal defenders, but attorneys were not immediately assigned to comment on their behalf. ADVERTISEMENT
Floyd, a Black man, died May 25 after a white Minneapolis police officer pressed his knee against Floyd’s neck for nearly eight minutes, as Floyd repeatedly said he couldn’t breathe. His death, captured on bystander video, sparked protests in Minneapolis and beyond.
Authorities began investigating the Boogaloo Bois after learning that some members were discussing violence and were armed during the unrest in Minneapolis. Boogaloo supporters, who use the movement’s name as a slang term for a second civil war or collapse of civilization, frequently show up at protests armed with rifles and wearing Hawaiian shirts.
According to an FBI affidavit, Solomon posted a message on Facebook on May 26 asking people to contact him on an encrypted platform. That same day, Teeter publicly posted: “Lock and load boys. Boog flags are in the air, and the national network is going off.” His public posts show he then traveled from North Carolina to Minnesota.
A witness told the FBI that Solomon was seen openly carrying a firearm and said he was part of a Boogaloo Bois subgroup called the “Boojahideen,” and was willing to protect the witness from police, white supremacists and looters. Solomon allegedly said his mission was to get police out of the city. Later, the witness invited Solomon, Teeter and another person to stay at the witness’s house, where they spoke about committing acts of violence against police and other targets, the affidavit says.
The witness said Solomon and Teeter talked about attacking a National Guard Armory to steal weapons and bombs. A paid informant, whom Teeter and Solomon believed to belong to Hamas, later recorded a conversation in which Solomon, Teeter and another person talked about shooting police.
During many conversations, Solomon and Teeter told the informant that the views of Hamas — a Palestinian Islamic political party — aligned with their own anti-government views and that they wanted to work as “mercenaries” on behalf of Hamas’ armed wing so they could earn cash for the Boogaloo movement. They said they needed money to recruit members and buy land for a Boogaloo training compound.
According to the affidavit, they came up with a plot to blow up a historical county courthouse in northern Minnesota so they could “make a statement,” but then delayed that plan. Solomon later said: “I want to murder a bunch of U.S. politicians. That’s the statement I want to make.”
Solomon and Teeter met an undercover FBI employee, whom they believed to be a more senior member of Hamas, and offered to build firearms suppressors and other weapons for the group. They believed the suppressors they sold went to Hamas to be used overseas to attack Israeli and U.S. forces, the affidavit said.
When the undercover FBI employee asked to explain killing politicians, Solomon said he would “build a gallows ... in front of the Congress building in D.C. and just start hanging politicians left and right.” When discussing possible security, Teeter said he can shoot from a distance and, “you can’t stop threats that you can’t see,″ the affidavit said.
"....Benjamin Ryan Teeter, 22, of Hampstead, North Carolina, are members of the “Boogaloo Bois,” authorities say."
Quote:
Teeter, in an interview with CNN, said he identifies as an anarchist. His mission in Minneapolis, he said, was to protect protesters from police abuse and white supremacists, whom he deplores.
"If people are going to initiate deadly force against us, we need to be willing and able to initiate deadly force in return," Teeter, 22, said.
To talk to Teeter -- who also recently attended protests decrying the Covid-19 lockdown -- is to get a sense of just how profoundly scrambled the Boogaloo ideology can be.
"I'm a member of the LGBT community," said Teeter, who describes himself as a non-voting "left anarchist...People think I'm part of a Nazi group; I'm not."
That is not meaningless. i think he point is that Trump et al is blowing the violence out of proportion. ALso, what portion of that 7% is instigatated by BLM protesters vs non-affiliated bad people just trying to take advantage of the situation vs right wing wackos looking to stir up trouble?
That is not meaningless. i think he point is that Trump et al is blowing the violence out of proportion. ALso, what portion of that 7% is instigatated by BLM protesters vs non-affiliated bad people just trying to take advantage of the situation vs right wing wackos looking to stir up trouble?
That. From one segment of the media - it is portrayed as if every peaceful protest ends in violence and our cities are aflame all over the country. The reality is different. As you say - where there is violence, what % is actors from the political left and right versus opportunistic hoodlums. It should matter - but of course ...
So. The lowbrow GOPer broad brush would have you believe it is ALL as in 100%, 7% is relatively low by comparison. I would venture to say the percentages of actual bigots, actual white supremacists, actual Nazis, and actual uneducated voters of the GOP under Trump is much higher than 7% EACH. And of the protesters rioting, looting, doing violent acts... I would be super surprised to find a percentage of under 20 percent of those being instigators from the right.
You can be both Pro-Police, and Anti-Police Brutality. No sane person is advocating a rogue police force who takes unilateral action against innocent people. None. We all agree on this and have common ground. Certainly not the people in Pittsburgh who's only offense was having a quiet dinner with a loved one at a street-side cafe. Those people aren't racists. Yet, they are attacked for being white and that's the very definition of being racist. Truly, it's unfortunate the message is being lost because of the messenger. I can never legitimately listen to your argument if you're going to attack innocent people. Innocent people who may feel the same way you do. Looting and rioting are wrong. If we can't agree on that, then maybe we don't have so much in common after all.
Problem is some lefties are so fixated that they take anti police brutality too far and become anti police while many righties take those ridiculous few and attribute it to all the vocal anti police brutality people.
And I'm quite sure many here laugh when it is said.
But, what I find funnier has been the constant argument stance shifting that has transpired over these months of rioting and looting. Or has the cool kids say...."moving the goalposts."
First, when it happened, it was like: Yes fight back....who cares if it's businesses. They have insurance! It's time to fight fire with fire!
Then when it continued to get out of hand and many were tying Antifa-related groups to the constant looting and rioting: HA!..Antifa? That not even a real group and no one can prove these types of groups are behind it!
Then, once it became rather obvious Antifa were leading many of these events, particularly in the NW, the stance became: Well, we still know the majority of these riots are being led/organized by white supremacists!
When that claim ended up going nowhere, it shifted again to: This only happened when the Feds showed up! It's all their fault!
We know that, too, is clearly not true so the 93/7 argument is the next take in an attempt to downplay what we have all seen daily. It is rather funny yet disgusting. Hell, maybe I'm missing another goal post move before this one. There have been so many!!
Bro you constantly ignore the fact that there’s tons of right wing/white supremacist losers involved in these riots.
You literally blow past it every time, yet got the nerve to act like you have the moral high ground.
I’m glad you put me on ignore. You’re one of those ‘smile in your face then start posting on brietbart’ kinda dudes. All you do is react to the reaction and NEVER give your thoughts on the issues that actually sparked the protest/riots to begin with.
That is not meaningless. i think he point is that Trump et al is blowing the violence out of proportion. ALso, what portion of that 7% is instigatated by BLM protesters vs non-affiliated bad people just trying to take advantage of the situation vs right wing wackos looking to stir up trouble?
Thinking out loud.... I wonder how many folks heads would explode if somebody started saying *Oh gee 93 percent of all cops are good cops, only 7 percent beat and kill people for no reason.
I believe that the 93 percent number is misleading. For example, I have a feeling that widespread incidents such as the following are not even being considered.
Thinking out loud.... I wonder how many folks heads would explode if somebody started saying *Oh gee 93 percent of all cops are good cops, only 7 percent beat and kill people for no reason.
The 93% need to do something about the 7% who give the entire police departments a bad name.
Also, good management should be able to identify their bad cops and retrain them or fire them...before they do something that tarnishes the entire department.
That is not meaningless. i think he point is that Trump et al is blowing the violence out of proportion. ALso, what portion of that 7% is instigatated by BLM protesters vs non-affiliated bad people just trying to take advantage of the situation vs right wing wackos looking to stir up trouble?
Thinking out loud.... I wonder how many folks heads would explode if somebody started saying *Oh gee 93 percent of all cops are good cops, only 7 percent beat and kill people for no reason.
I think most would say good job 93%. Now let's figure out a good way to address that 7%
Oh, that's not it at all. It's about perspective. 93% of the protests are peaceful yet 100% of everything those on the right concentrate on is the 7%.
And let's break it down even further. Of those 7% that are not peaceful, what percentage of the people in those are violent?
When you break it all down, 100% of those on the right focus only on less than 1% of the people that actually are creating the violence. They make it the entire focus of everything while ignoring the other 99% of the people involved in the protests.
So yeah, it's about perspective. But as you can see, some people think that's funny. Those are the exact people I'm talking about. People who use 1% of anything to try and make a point while ignoring the other 99%.
pssst.... Let me give you a clue here. 7% of the protests turn violent. But it's a small percentage of those at the 7% of protests who are actually being violent. So it's far, far less than 7% of people surrounding the protests that are actually being violent. Even if it's 20% of the protestors that become violent at that 7% of protests? Well you do the math on just what a small percentage that is.
Yet Trump and his cronies will focus on that to change the actual narrative.
And as you can see from their posts, they'll laugh about it.
I support protesters taking photo's and video's of those who start rioting and looting, then hand those pics and video's over to the police. Just like I expect those good cops to speak up and blow the whistle on bad cops.
I think most would say good job 93%. Now let's figure out a good way to address that 7%
We agree on that. Do you agree with me that the same should be said about the protesters/rioters. Good job to the 93 percent, and we have to find away to throw the book at those 7 percent guilty of rioting and looting.
You can be both Pro-Police, and Anti-Police Brutality. No sane person is advocating a rogue police force who takes unilateral action against innocent people. None. We all agree on this and have common ground.
I certainly agree with this. Now if we could all band together in an effort to establish policies and punishments to stop it things could get better.
Quote:
Certainly not the people in Pittsburgh who's only offense was having a quiet dinner with a loved one at a street-side cafe. Those people aren't racists. Yet, they are attacked for being white and that's the very definition of being racist. Truly, it's unfortunate the message is being lost because of the messenger. I can never legitimately listen to your argument if you're going to attack innocent people. Innocent people who may feel the same way you do. Looting and rioting are wrong. If we can't agree on that, then maybe we don't have so much in common after all.
But we do all agree with that. Biden agrees with that. Innocent people on both sides are being unfairly treated. I mean nobody gets shot in the back seven times or strangled for eight minutes by having their dinner interrupted but it's still wrong.
In both cases, we can all use excuses to blame either side if we use the most extreme cases to base our opinion on. If we take the most extreme subset in either direction it looks horrible. Or we can look at things from a big picture point of view. We can look at what the vast majority involved are trying to accomplish and their method of going about it.
In this case, the vast, vast majority of those trying to end police brutality are doing it via peaceful protests. They are doing it the right way.
So your choice is a simple one. You cal allow yourself to be led by a small minority on the most extreme side to rule your thoughts, or you can look at the vast majority and see they are doing it the right way and support them.
You see, that's what I've chosen to do. I have and will continue to speak out against those who are engaging in criminal acts. They should be arrested and prosecuted. They aren't protesting. They are engaging in criminal activity.
At the very same time I will support well over 95% of the people doing it the right way by peacefully protesting. Those who are supporting a change for the better. Those who are supporting equal justice for all Americans.
It's exactly the same example you used with the police. Are there bad cops? Yes there are. Are the vast majority of the police good cops? I believe they are. So I support good cops while wanting the system to change which will ensure the bad cops pay the price.
You see, your example isn't the only one that applies here. You also have the choice to support those protesting the right way while speaking out against those doing it the wrong way. Exactly as you suggest we do that when it comes to the cops. Perspective should be something that works in both directions.
I think most would say good job 93%. Now let's figure out a good way to address that 7%
We agree on that. Do you agree with me that the same should be said about the protesters/rioters. Good job to the 93 percent, and we have to find away to throw the book at those 7 percent guilty of rioting and looting.
I think most would say good job 93%. Now let's figure out a good way to address that 7%
We agree on that. Do you agree with me that the same should be said about the protesters/rioters. Good job to the 93 percent, and we have to find away to throw the book at those 7 percent guilty of rioting and looting.
Absolutely. I think most people support the protestors right to protest. I think everyone agrees looting and rioting is wrong.
Bro you constantly ignore the fact that there’s tons of right wing/white supremacist losers involved in these riots.
Prove it. Do share how you know there are "tons" of these people.
There's lots of documents examples. AS many as there are documented examples of Left leaning activists being involved. Just because in you head you seem to have associated the 97% with the 7% doesn't make it so.
Jones reviewed protests in more than 140 cities and spoke with U.S. officials within the joint terrorism task force. Most of the violence, Jones said, was committed by “local hooligans, sometimes gangs, sometimes just individuals that are trying to take advantage of an opportunity.”
“There were reports of some antifa at different protests,” he concluded. “But they stood back, did not engage, certainly not in a violent way.”
Officials have arrested more than 14,000 people across 49 cities nationwide since May 27, according to a Washington Post tally of data provided by police departments and included in media reports. Thousands were arrested for low-level offenses, including curfew violations and failure to disperse.
Roughly 80 federal charges, including murder and throwing molotov cocktails at police vehicles, reveal no evidence of an antifa plot. Four people who identify with the far-right extremist “boogaloo” movement are among those facing the most serious federal charges. Asked whether anyone who identifies as antifa had been charged, Department of Justice spokesman Matt Lloyd said via email, “We do not collect statistics based on potential inspiration but on unlawful acts according to statute.”
The Richmond stuff has also been addressed in a previous post. Essentially the Government threw out White Supremacy on misinformation. BLM protesters even claimed the people they were referring to were not supremacists. Further, it was also stated, this group left before the rioting even began.
Secondly, I would do a lot more research on the Boogaloo Boys. There was an article mentioned about Boogaloo Boys being arrested for working with Hamas and names were provided. The Boogaloo member was a self- described "left anarchist". The Boogaloo Boys ARE a problem. But I think calling them white supremacist is not entirely accurate.
I heard one of the 'Boogaloo boys' was claiming he wasn't or some such ... but there have been 4 arrests of 'Boogaloo Boys' ...
My point being that in answer to what Eve posted - as many people associated with 'Alt Right' have been associated with the violence as there has been 'Alt Left' or whatever you want to call them. I will maintain - as reported - the vast majority of the violence is opportunistic hoodlums and thugs. I said that when it first happened, I've seen nothing to suggest otherwise.
pssst.... Let me give you a clue here. 7% of the protests turn violent. But it's a small percentage of those at the 7% of protests who are actually being violent. So it's far, far less than 7% of people surrounding the protests that are actually being violent. Even if it's 20% of the protestors that become violent at that 7% of protests? Well you do the math on just what a small percentage that is.
Yet Trump and his cronies will focus on that to change the actual narrative.
And as you can see from their posts, they'll laugh about it.
But would those violent protesters "spawn" if they didn't have "peaceful" protests as cover?
Many want to "defund/abolish the police" to get rid of bad police. Why is there no "defund"/"abolish" the protesters to get rid of bad protesters or how is that thinking really different?
Any idea of the percentage of police that have killed someone? I've been looking, but I've not been able to track something along those lines down. How do you think it would compare to 7%? I'm curious to see someone do the math and "see just what a small percentage that is."
I think both can and should do better. I think using arguments that could be directed the other way fairly easily is hypocritical.
I'm really getting tired of the change the narrative complaint/defense. There is no single right/true/pure narrative. It's like you're writing a book with a first person limited narrator who thinks he's omniscient. In reality, more voices/perspectives leads to a more complete picture. Sometimes (or perhaps it's really always) those perspectives are flawed, but it's on both sides. Everyone has their blind spots.
edit: I've come across 1099 civilians killed in 2019 here
If we treat it as if there were no officers that were responsible for multiple deaths and went 1099/800000 the percentage would be around .13% (assuming my brain is functioning at the moment)
I'm not trying to wipe away that wrongness of killing unarmed men by police (and those numbers were all civilian casualties...I think... does seem kinda low), but your 7% argument is pretty weak in comparison.
I heard one of the 'Boogaloo boys' was claiming he wasn't or some such ... but there have been 4 arrests of 'Boogaloo Boys' ...
My point being that in answer to what Eve posted - as many people associated with 'Alt Right' have been associated with the violence as there has been 'Alt Left' or whatever you want to call them. I will maintain - as reported - the vast majority of the violence is opportunistic hoodlums and thugs. I said that when it first happened, I've seen nothing to suggest otherwise.
The following response is not directed at you, mgh, but a general point to this simplistic, binary thinking when it comes to these groups being either right or left, politically. Namely, Antifa and the Boogaloo Boys. Although I firmly believe we've seen more "left" leaning individuals if we want to call them that for the sake of what has been discussed in this thread, which are terms I have fallen victim to at times. And I say left because a group like Antifa is calling anything "right" as fascist, which is both ironic and hypocritical. But within the current climate I would say align more left than right at this point....meaning "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" for the time being. I'll explain what I mean more about this below.
From what I've been looking at regarding the Boogaloo Boys, which has its roots as an alt-right/supremacist group, no doubt, has evolved into more of a libertarian, anti-government/police establishment. The predominant libertarian angle of this group is frustrating to me, as it aligns with my personal political beliefs as a self-described libertarian. These people are latching onto protests (good intentioned ones or nefarious ones) with the mindset of promoting anti-police rhetoric, protection against perceived systemic violence and aggression, and to encourage rioting. There is no doubt about it in my mind. I think I've said as much in these discussions. The same goes for Antifa, but I submit, have been more active in the organization, spreading, marketing, of these anti- government, anti-police, anti-capitalism actions and rhetoric. People in cities are beginning to replicate their actions and tactics they've worked on long before 2020 and what we've seen recently.
Again, the funny thing is people think Antifa is some left group promoting the liberal/progressive/democratic agenda and "protecting" us from fascism. They are not. They are extreme radicals and anarchists that want to eliminate the current status quo, of yes, even liberal democracy. That's where these two groups converge and have been, to some degree, working together to an extent during some, but not all, of these riots/protests. Sorta like....the enemy of my enemy is my friend again. These two organizations believe the solution is to burn the entire government to ashes and start all over with some utopian Marxist environment in mind. Kinda like a phoenix bird rising from the ashes metaphor.
So I suppose considering the current binary political climate, and people's trained minds today, is to say Antifa is considered far-left, but I don't necessarily see the Boogaloo Boys, also anarchists like Antifa, as a collective far-right group. Not sure if alt-center or far-center is a used term but I see them more like that at this point in time. And they are aligned for the same cause mentioned above.
Now, are there alt-right individuals joining in on some of these things? Sure, it would be silly to say these people are sitting on the sidelines doing nothing. But again, I think the vast majority fall in-line with the destructive thinking mentioned earlier of a complete government upheaval and they are the MUCH bigger issue.
Actually if you've been reading the thread, I and many others you seem to be referencing agree that it's a small percentage of police that are the biggest issue here. I do not think you should just be dismissing that. Peaceful protests are guaranteed under the constitution. So no, you will not see those who believe in the constitution calling for an end to something that the constitution plainly says is a right of all Americans.
And while if you only look at people being killed by the police, maybe you're missing the bigger picture here. There is also the disparity in sentencing. Blacks being pulled over for no reason. Blacks being three times more likely to be killed by the police. The bigger picture is equal justice for every American.
As for "defunding the police". There are those on the fringe that actually believe this in is its literal sense. But as has been covered over and over and over again, that is more poor messaging than anything else.
Let me explain what the vast majority actually mean....
A city is not the federal government. As such they simply can not just print money to spend. They have budget constraints with which they must work within. As such, those resources must be spread about to confront their issues.
As of now, the police are burdened with doing things they were never intended to, nor are well equipped to deal with. Things such as the homeless problem, addiction and the mentally ill. In many cases they have no choice because the resources simply are not there for those issues.
What that creates is a large part of the police budget going to things they are neither equipped to deal with nor do they wish to be burdened dealing with. Locally in the Nashville area where i live, the county sheriff said that about 30% of his jail was filled with mentally ill prisoners. Prisoners he wish had other places to go. He also mentioned the addiction issue and the homeless issue he is spending money on.
So "defunding the police" actually means to take the budget police are spending on such issues and diverting those funds to places that can and should be dealing with them. In Nashville about 2.4 million dollars of the police budget was diverted to a new mental health facility where the police can take the mentally ill and get them the treatment they need. That did not pay the entire bill for the new facility, but it certainly helped.
The process time when the police drop patients off to this facility they said takes about 10 minutes. Can you imagine the money the police and the jail are saving by this?
So if we take the extremists out of the debate and look at a reasonable middle ground, it all makes sense. It's what the vast majority are actually looking for. We could take extremists from both sides and paint a very ugly portrait. Or, we could look at what the vast majority are saying and have a reasonable conversation.
You stated all the violence was perpetrated by BLM ... not that you could find one moron advocating violence.
It's good - I'll wait for the proof.
That one idiot is a leader who organizes the protests/riots.
But by all means continue to be in denial.
Sure. She must be the most influencial person in the world. Amazing.
Vers pointed out that BLM has a 'Marxist' web site and has an "Official" website that is whack. And I think most realize that 99% of people who support "BLM" as an idea/ideology/protest to help protect a segment of society who are killed at the hands of cops disproportionately have absolutely nothing to do with this lady or what she thinks she represents. . . . She most certainly is not organizing all the protests. She most certainly isn't organizing all the riots.
But feel free to believe what you will. I'll wait for proof that the BLM are being arrested in larger numbers than the Alt Right in these riots & violence.
You stated all the violence was perpetrated by BLM ... not that you could find one moron advocating violence.
It's good - I'll wait for the proof.
That one idiot is a leader who organizes the protests/riots.
But by all means continue to be in denial.
Sure. She must be the most influencial person in the world. Amazing.
Vers pointed out that BLM has a 'Marxist' web site and has an "Official" website that is whack. And I think most realize that 99% of people who support "BLM" as an idea/ideology/protest to help protect a segment of society who are killed at the hands of cops disproportionately have absolutely nothing to do with this lady or what she thinks she represents. . . . She most certainly is not organizing all the protests. She most certainly isn't organizing all the riots.
But feel free to believe what you will. I'll wait for proof that the BLM are being arrested in larger numbers than the Alt Right in these riots & violence.
She is the organizer for Chicago protests/riots. But denial is your thing so have at it.
Also Vers is correct. BLM was founded by 3 self admitted marxists. That is a matter of fact. By definition they want to overthrow the country and become a communist country.
And I think most realize that 99% of people who support "BLM" as an idea/ideology/protest to help protect a segment of society who are killed at the hands of cops disproportionately have absolutely nothing to do with this lady or what she thinks she represents. . . .
So, 99% of the followers look past the stance and viewpoints of the founders, leaders and organizers to something better? Maybe the same could be said of Trump supporters.
So a small handful are white supremacists? Thats not "tons"
The majority are BLM.
There is no denial. This was the issue I was contending. I said the majority of violence was opportunistic thugs. I said of those caught and prosecuted for that violence, there have been as significant number reported as having Alt Right affiliation as Left affiliations. As was stated in the report I linked.
I also said the overwhelming majority who showed support for BLM and still do have no connection or affiliation to the whacko you showed being interviewed or the 'Official' BLM website.
I have not denied that there is a BLM website with claims of being Marxist. Or that some on there (including the woman interviewed) might want to support violence. . . . . what I think is silly is the idea that the website or that woman can organize all the protests and all the violence.
Back to your claim - where is the proof that the majority are BLM as opposed to just opportunistic criminals?
And I think most realize that 99% of people who support "BLM" as an idea/ideology/protest to help protect a segment of society who are killed at the hands of cops disproportionately have absolutely nothing to do with this lady or what she thinks she represents. . . .
So, 99% of the followers look past the stance and viewpoints of the founders, leaders and organizers to something better? Maybe the same could be said of Trump supporters.
Weird how that works, isn't it? I'm called racist because I voted for trump over hillary, and I'm also told since I did that, I support and follow everything trump does and says.
Yet a leader of blm calls for continued looting and rioting, yet "99% of blm" don't support that leader, supposedly.
So a small handful are white supremacists? Thats not "tons"
The majority are BLM.
There is no denial. This was the issue I was contending. I said the majority of violence was opportunistic thugs. I said of those caught and prosecuted for that violence, there have been as significant number reported as having Alt Right affiliation as Left affiliations. As was stated in the report I linked.
I also said the overwhelming majority who showed support for BLM and still do have no connection or affiliation to the whacko you showed being interviewed or the 'Official' BLM website.
I have not denied that there is a BLM website with claims of being Marxist. Or that some on there (including the woman interviewed) might want to support violence. . . . . what I think is silly is the idea that the website or that woman can organize all the protests and all the violence.
Back to your claim - where is the proof that the majority are BLM as opposed to just opportunistic criminals?
So a leader of blm calls for looting and rioting and youre in denial that its happening. Despite endless videos showing black people rioting and looting in the name of blm. At blm organized "protests" lead by blm leaders who support looting?
And I think most realize that 99% of people who support "BLM" as an idea/ideology/protest to help protect a segment of society who are killed at the hands of cops disproportionately have absolutely nothing to do with this lady or what she thinks she represents. . . .
So, 99% of the followers look past the stance and viewpoints of the founders, leaders and organizers to something better? Maybe the same could be said of Trump supporters.
Weird how that works, isn't it? I'm called racist because I voted for trump over hillary, and I'm also told since I did that, I support and follow everything trump does and says.
Yet a leader of blm calls for continued looting and rioting, yet "99% of blm" don't support that leader, supposedly.
Odd, isn't it?
So we can agree that not all trump voters believe everything he says. Not all trump voters are racist.
This one woman does not speak for all BLM.
The one anti-trump poster who called you racist/nazi does not speak for all/any of the rest of us. I could be wrong but I am pretty sure it has been only 1 poster. Of course that poster has done it 20+ times
Thinking out loud.... I wonder how many folks heads would explode if somebody started saying *Oh gee 93 percent of all cops are good cops, only 7 percent beat and kill people for no reason.
The 93% need to do something about the 7% who give the entire police departments a bad name.
Also, good management should be able to identify their bad cops and retrain them or fire them...before they do something that tarnishes the entire department.
There ain't no way it's 7%, say-- 99 and a half percent to half a percent, --- or my head will eplode.
Actually if you've been reading the thread, I and many others you seem to be referencing agree that it's a small percentage of police that are the biggest issue here. I do not think you should just be dismissing that. Peaceful protests are guaranteed under the constitution. So no, you will not see those who believe in the constitution calling for an end to something that the constitution plainly says is a right of all Americans.
And while if you only look at people being killed by the police, maybe you're missing the bigger picture here. There is also the disparity in sentencing. Blacks being pulled over for no reason. Blacks being three times more likely to be killed by the police. The bigger picture is equal justice for every American.
As for "defunding the police". There are those on the fringe that actually believe this in is its literal sense. But as has been covered over and over and over again, that is more poor messaging than anything else.
Let me explain what the vast majority actually mean....
A city is not the federal government. As such they simply can not just print money to spend. They have budget constraints with which they must work within. As such, those resources must be spread about to confront their issues.
As of now, the police are burdened with doing things they were never intended to, nor are well equipped to deal with. Things such as the homeless problem, addiction and the mentally ill. In many cases they have no choice because the resources simply are not there for those issues.
What that creates is a large part of the police budget going to things they are neither equipped to deal with nor do they wish to be burdened dealing with. Locally in the Nashville area where i live, the county sheriff said that about 30% of his jail was filled with mentally ill prisoners. Prisoners he wish had other places to go. He also mentioned the addiction issue and the homeless issue he is spending money on.
So "defunding the police" actually means to take the budget police are spending on such issues and diverting those funds to places that can and should be dealing with them. In Nashville about 2.4 million dollars of the police budget was diverted to a new mental health facility where the police can take the mentally ill and get them the treatment they need. That did not pay the entire bill for the new facility, but it certainly helped.
The process time when the police drop patients off to this facility they said takes about 10 minutes. Can you imagine the money the police and the jail are saving by this?
So if we take the extremists out of the debate and look at a reasonable middle ground, it all makes sense. It's what the vast majority are actually looking for. We could take extremists from both sides and paint a very ugly portrait. Or, we could look at what the vast majority are saying and have a reasonable conversation.
You either didn't read my post or are purposefully misinterpreting it, so that you can make straw man arguments to feel better about yourself. *Deep Breath* I suppose it could have possibly been a misunderstanding.
My post wasn't about downplaying "bad cops." It was pointing out how hypocritical your argument that only 20% of 7% of protestors being violent was, like it was some kind of excuse.
The small percentage of bad actors is not a good excuse for either group.
Thinking out loud.... I wonder how many folks heads would explode if somebody started saying *Oh gee 93 percent of all cops are good cops, only 7 percent beat and kill people for no reason.
The 93% need to do something about the 7% who give the entire police departments a bad name.
Also, good management should be able to identify their bad cops and retrain them or fire them...before they do something that tarnishes the entire department.
There ain't no way it's 7%, say-- 99 and a half percent to half a percent, --- or my head will eplode.
Throw short...
Question?...did I say it was 7% of the cops who beat and kill people for no reason?...as you "quote".
Don't get lost in the argument of whether this was a justified shooting or not. The key element is trump's attitude of retribution rather than justice. This should scare everyone.
Trump described the killing of an antifa-linked suspect by US Marshals as 'retribution' Tom Porter 1 hour ago
President Donald Trump in a Fox News interview Saturday described the fatal shooting of an antifa-linked murder suspect by US Marshals last week as an act of "retribution."
The fatal shooting by the law enforcement officers has come under scrutiny, with one witness claiming that they did not try and arrest the suspect before opening fire.
Trump has seized on the August 29 killing of a far-right activist during protests in Portland to hammer home his attack on anti-racism protesters.
President Donald Trump described the killing of a left-wing activist and murder suspect shot dead by US Marshals as "retribution," in an interview with Fox News.
In the interview with host Jeanine Pirro, on Saturday, Trump discussed the September 3 death of Michael Reinoehl, who was shot dead by US Marshals in Portland, Oregon.
Reinoehl had expressed support for the left-wing antifa and Black Lives Matter and was a suspect in the fatal shooting of far-right activist Aaron Danielson in an August 29 protest in the city, where rival groups of demonstrators clashed.
In the interview, Trump remarked: "This guy was a violent criminal, and the US Marshals killed him. And I'll tell you something -- that's the way it has to be. There has to be retribution."
Critics have accused the president of cheering extrajudicial violence by law enforcement.
Reinoehl's death is coming under increasing scrutiny, with one witness to his killing outside an apartment complex in Lacey, Washington, telling media outlets including The Washington Post that police did not try and arrest him. They issued no commands to Reinoehl before opening fire.
Officers from the fugitive dispatch team sent to arrest Reinoehl said that he pulled a gun on them, a claim backed by two witnesses, according to the Post.
The White House and Justice Department did not immediately respond to a request for comment on criticism of Trump's remarks.
Trump has seized on the killing of Danielson in his bid to portray most anti-racism demonstrators as radicals and violent extremists, who he has pledged to subdue with tough "law and order" policies.
The president has positioned himself as the last bulwark against the forces of violent anarchism the center of his presidential re-election campaign.
Danielson's is one of a series of violent incidents in recent clashes between BLM protesters and pro-Trump counter-protesters.
In interviews, the president has controversially refused to condemn Kyle Rittenhouse, a 17-year-old right-wing militia member who police accused of shooting dead two men in Kenosha, Wisconsin, during unrest in the city in late August.
Don't get lost in the argument of whether this was a justified shooting or not. The key element is trump's attitude of retribution rather than justice. This should scare everyone.
jest...my post to Throw was in the form of a question...
"Question?...did I say it was 7% of the cops who beat and kill people for no reason?...as you "quote", "
No, once again it's about perspective. I don't see anyone downplaying the violence. I as well as many others people claim to be liberals have called it out, said those committing such crimes should be arrested and convicted of their crimes. Biden says the exact same thing. So can you tell me how that's playing it down?
The actuality of the numbers committing this violence is simply to show how the right uses a very small percentage, and I mean a very small percentage of those committing these crimes and placing the focus squarely on them to take the focus away from what and why the vast majority of the protestors are actually taking to the streets.
And for the rest of the peanut gallery throwing their little tantrum, that's what happens when they have no actual rebuttal to those facts. Noise.
Can either of you imagine a world in which we allow those people to call all of the shots? Can you ever imagine getting in lockstep with the rights new found fascism? Can you be cool with a POTUS that wants POC to go back to where they came from (countries of historic racial origin) while his minions chant 'send them back'? Can you get used to not trusting anything about the government?
There are so many reasons to not like Trump that I struggle to see why anyone would vote for him. Hate or fear are the only reasons I can find and I would like to see just one Trump supporter change my mind on that. Seriously, he's bad even on the economy! He never really did anything to boost the economy other than cheerlead. He then incompetently put himself in a situation blowing off the severity of the pandemic, that was forced to destroy all the gains made dating back to 2008!?!?!??? smh I just can't see any reason justifying votes for him that are not based in fear or racism.
But would those violent protesters "spawn" if they didn't have "peaceful" protests as cover?
I covered why peaceful protests are a right covered by the constitution.
Quote:
Many want to "defund/abolish the police" to get rid of bad police. Why is there no "defund"/"abolish" the protesters to get rid of bad protesters or how is that thinking really different?
I explained what the vast majority meant by defunding the police and once again, how peaceful protests are protected under the constitution and is a right of all Americans.
Quote:
Any idea of the percentage of police that have killed someone? I've been looking, but I've not been able to track something along those lines down. How do you think it would compare to 7%? I'm curious to see someone do the math and "see just what a small percentage that is."
I pointed out how both are just as wrong. And it's a fact that black men are three times more likely to be killed by the police. I pointed out how those on the left on this very board as well as Biden have denounced the violence.
Quote:
I think both can and should do better. I think using arguments that could be directed the other way fairly easily is hypocritical.
While I don't really disagree with that, as long as you aren't trying to lump law abiding peaceful protesting among those committing criminal activity. However one takes on the professional responsibility to protect and serve the people. The other is the criminal element in our society. I feel trying to compare those two things is a false equivalency.
Quote:
I'm really getting tired of the change the narrative complaint/defense. There is no single right/true/pure narrative. It's like you're writing a book with a first person limited narrator who thinks he's omniscient. In reality, more voices/perspectives leads to a more complete picture. Sometimes (or perhaps it's really always) those perspectives are flawed, but it's on both sides. Everyone has their blind spots.
As I stated, one side recognizes the criminal element, admits it's there and thinks those criminals should be arrested and prosecuted. The other side focuses only on the small percentage of criminals and uses that as an excuse to ignore the issue.
Quote:
I'm not trying to wipe away that wrongness of killing unarmed men by police (and those numbers were all civilian casualties...I think... does seem kinda low), but your 7% argument is pretty weak in comparison.
But you are actually not paying attention. It's not that 7% of the protestors are violent. It's that violence only occurs at 7% of the protests. Even at those protests where violence occurs the vast majority of the protestors do not riot nor do they engage in criminal activity.
One of those two groups makes a choice to engage in a profession to protect and serve the public. The other group are criminals. Surely you can't be trying to make an actual comparison between those two things are you?
As you can see, you certainly had all of the points I brought up contained within your post. I addressed them all. Your response? "It was just noise". Just because you decided you didn't wish to engage in an actual debate in those topics does not mean I didn't address what was contained within your post.
You're usually better than that. But not this time. I have no idea as to why.
Don't get lost in the argument of whether this was a justified shooting or not. The key element is trump's attitude of retribution rather than justice. This should scare everyone.
jest...my post to Throw was in the form of a question...
"Question?...did I say it was 7% of the cops who beat and kill people for no reason?...as you "quote", "
That statement I made was not directed at you but at the trumpians. Many of them will miss the point and try to change the narrative.
It's not that 7% of the protestors are violent. It's that violence only occurs at 7% of the protests. Even at those protests where violence occurs the vast majority of the protesters do not riot nor do they engage in criminal activity.
Bull is normally happy to have a discussion - he may end up acknowledging this or debating it - idk - but for the majority that don't want to debate what's said, but instead invent their narrative ... no-one wants to acknowledge this point or that the majority of violence is simply opportunistic criminality.
Interesting spin in the one post asking if the Protesting was at fault because without the protests the opportunistic criminals wouldn't have had the opportunity... that's a teeny weenie bit like asking if the law abiding victim is to blame because if they hadn't been there then the incident wouldn't have happened.
Actually if you've been reading the thread, I and many others you seem to be referencing agree that it's a small percentage of police that are the biggest issue here. I do not think you should just be dismissing that. Peaceful protests are guaranteed under the constitution. So no, you will not see those who believe in the constitution calling for an end to something that the constitution plainly says is a right of all Americans.
And while if you only look at people being killed by the police, maybe you're missing the bigger picture here. There is also the disparity in sentencing. Blacks being pulled over for no reason. Blacks being three times more likely to be killed by the police. The bigger picture is equal justice for every American.
As for "defunding the police". There are those on the fringe that actually believe this in is its literal sense. But as has been covered over and over and over again, that is more poor messaging than anything else.
Let me explain what the vast majority actually mean....
A city is not the federal government. As such they simply can not just print money to spend. They have budget constraints with which they must work within. As such, those resources must be spread about to confront their issues.
As of now, the police are burdened with doing things they were never intended to, nor are well equipped to deal with. Things such as the homeless problem, addiction and the mentally ill. In many cases they have no choice because the resources simply are not there for those issues.
What that creates is a large part of the police budget going to things they are neither equipped to deal with nor do they wish to be burdened dealing with. Locally in the Nashville area where i live, the county sheriff said that about 30% of his jail was filled with mentally ill prisoners. Prisoners he wish had other places to go. He also mentioned the addiction issue and the homeless issue he is spending money on.
So "defunding the police" actually means to take the budget police are spending on such issues and diverting those funds to places that can and should be dealing with them. In Nashville about 2.4 million dollars of the police budget was diverted to a new mental health facility where the police can take the mentally ill and get them the treatment they need. That did not pay the entire bill for the new facility, but it certainly helped.
The process time when the police drop patients off to this facility they said takes about 10 minutes. Can you imagine the money the police and the jail are saving by this?
So if we take the extremists out of the debate and look at a reasonable middle ground, it all makes sense. It's what the vast majority are actually looking for. We could take extremists from both sides and paint a very ugly portrait. Or, we could look at what the vast majority are saying and have a reasonable conversation.
You either didn't read my post or are purposefully misinterpreting it, so that you can make straw man arguments to feel better about yourself. *Deep Breath* I suppose it could have possibly been a misunderstanding.
That's why I was surprised by this remark from him. Above I broke down the post he spoke to and gave the evidence of how I actually responded to it point by point.
Yes, in the past he has been far more genuine and willing to actually debate things. Especially points he himself brought up. In this case? I'm not sure what the hell's up.
It's not that 7% of the protestors are violent. It's that violence only occurs at 7% of the protests. Even at those protests where violence occurs the vast majority of the protesters do not riot nor do they engage in criminal activity.
Bull is normally happy to have a discussion - he may end up acknowledging this or debating it - idk - but for the majority that don't want to debate what's said, but instead invent their narrative ... no-one wants to acknowledge this point or that the majority of violence is simply opportunistic criminality.
Interesting spin in the one post asking if the Protesting was at fault because without the protests the opportunistic criminals wouldn't have had the opportunity... that's a teeny weenie bit like asking if the law abiding victim is to blame because if they hadn't been there then the incident wouldn't have happened.
I wasn't making the argument so much as trying to show how ridiculous the argument was (throwing out the small percentage on both sides like it was an excuse). It's hard to interpret tone in text, I guess.
Don't get lost in the argument of whether this was a justified shooting or not. The key element is trump's attitude of retribution rather than justice. This should scare everyone.
jest...my post to Throw was in the form of a question...
"Question?...did I say it was 7% of the cops who beat and kill people for no reason?...as you "quote", "
That statement I made was not directed at you but at the trumpians. Many of them will miss the point and try to change the narrative.
jest...ok!
When some one clicks on another individual and posts, unless identified with a 'jc' for 'just clicking' or someone is identified by name...the name of the previous poster appears at the top.
I realize I'm not saying anything folks don't already know..but simply identifying the individual you are meaning to address does cut down on the confusion.
Not sure if this is true, but if it is, it won't be considered in the 93% fake news BS reports. Just like the mass looting of businesses were not considered.
Fake numbers that the left loves to parade around as facts.
Thinking out loud.... I wonder how many folks heads would explode if somebody started saying *Oh gee 93 percent of all cops are good cops, only 7 percent beat and kill people for no reason.
The 93% need to do something about the 7% who give the entire police departments a bad name.
Also, good management should be able to identify their bad cops and retrain them or fire them...before they do something that tarnishes the entire department.
There ain't no way it's 7%, say-- 99 and a half percent to half a percent, --- or my head will eplode.
Throw short...
Question?...[color:#CCCCCC][did I say it was 7% of the cops who beat and kill people for no reason?...as you "quote". [/color]
1st of all, sorry, you're right, 2nd. ^it's clear above the person who did say was another quote box of someone else, not you, but their name is left out of your quote of their quote, which I quoted. 3rd of all, It's them whose post contained the words "heads would explode" which was needed for the point I was trying to state.
4th of all. If you can allow that it was the number I was calling out, not the poster, not you, or GM as it turns out, yet the notion itself, the number and here is why, It is because I'm aware of a certain level of requirement that won't allow just any level of person (and by level of person I mean how they conduct themselves: gee everything has to be so pc these days) to reach the point to get in that 100% number being broken down. 5th of all, I'm saying that if 7% to 93% were the number of bad cops that more of them would be weeded out in the process to instill professionalism before they become cops to the point that that's an absurd number enough to say, "how many peoples heads would explode" yeah my head would explode, it's probably, (I have no idea how many bad cops, but, discussing it, I can say, less than 1%, it's less than 1% if you have to discuss it as a number)
6th of all, that's the part I was calling out, the number, not you or any individual or even the group of posters saying it, it's the number itself
7th of all it's at the top of page 7, and the next 5-7 posts continue it until Eve's post changed the subject, if it must be clear, Gm originally posted it, and nobody objected among mac, gm, Vers, Jester, and Mg888, so if 7 posts are going to continue a narrative that 7% of cops are ... and look ^^^ "beat and kill people for no reason" I still don't even think, when talking about bad cops that that's the subset we're talking about here, when I even say the discussion should say, (I'm saying if you have to say it, have to say any number say .5 % less than 1%, because I feel that's a number that needs to be called out. 8th of all, any of those posts could have challenged the narrative, but no big deal, but if it continues then the narrative starts to become accepted, ... and or, I like to point out, sneezing, puking, are "technically" head explosions. 9th of all, I could have, ... stopped, backed up, looked around for who originally said that statemet, and quoted Gm as it turns out now that I check back, but as it's clear to all regular dawgtalkers that I'm referring to a box quoted by someone else, which is inside the box of your post I was quoting, I didn't feel the need to, and as it turns out upon looking back to the top of page 7,it was an ongoing narrative for 5-7 posts. and Near last of all, sorry I didn't check the topic, probably because of the Game yesterday I didn't look, and Hope, all of you all I've mentioned in this post can forgive me, for I was only trying to call out the number and not any single or even group of y'all.
Can either of you imagine a world in which we allow those people to call all of the shots? Can you ever imagine getting in lockstep with the rights new found fascism? Can you be cool with a POTUS that wants POC to go back to where they came from (countries of historic racial origin) while his minions chant 'send them back'? Can you get used to not trusting anything about the government?
There are so many reasons to not like Trump that I struggle to see why anyone would vote for him. Hate or fear are the only reasons I can find and I would like to see just one Trump supporter change my mind on that. Seriously, he's bad even on the economy! He never really did anything to boost the economy other than cheerlead. He then incompetently put himself in a situation blowing off the severity of the pandemic, that was forced to destroy all the gains made dating back to 2008!?!?!??? smh I just can't see any reason justifying votes for him that are not based in fear or racism.
I'm just one Trump supporter that's going to change your mind on that. It's going to take a little time. This hit me, because, reading your post, I feel like 90% of that, if you feel that coming from your side, the same way I feel coming from this side, just change right to left, Potus to democrat party.
The following video is just one of many reports of how these so-called peaceful protests are not all that peaceful. That 93 percent stat is BS, because I guarantee events like this are not included in their numbers.
Furthermore, here is the bottom line..........if you come up on me and my family, be prepared to get your ass kicked in the worst way. You wanna dance, let's dance.
Mark Taylor: Trump better start arresting Democrats or ‘patriots will take matters into their own hands’
During an appearance on the McFiles program this Monday, career conspiracy theorist and Christian MAGA “prophet” Mark Taylor warned that if President Trump doesn’t start arresting some high-profile Democrats soon, “patriots” will step in and do the job for him.
“[Trump] can’t wait too long because we don’t want a civil war starting because the patriots are fed up with this,” Taylor said in a video clip flagged by Right Wing Watch. “[There] was a very well-known and reputable military-type of Twitter account that put out a statement from an ex-veteran that was basically putting the warning out that you guys better get your stuff together because if we take matters into our own hands to take back this country, it ain’t going to be good. And that’s what I’ve been warning about.”
Senate Homeland Security Committee authorizes subpoenas for testimony from Obama officials as part of Russia probe Includes John Brennan, James Clapper and James Comey
The Senate Homeland Security Committee on Wednesday voted to authorize subpoenas for former CIA Director John Brennan, former Director of National Intelligence James Clapper, former FBI Director James Comey, and other Obama administration officials as part of its broad review into the origins of the Russia investigation.
The committee on Wednesday held a business meeting to authorize committee Chairman Ron Johnson, R-Wis., to issue notices for taking depositions, subpoenas, for records, and subpoenas for testimony to individuals relating to the panel’s “Crossfire Hurricane” investigation, the Justice Department inspector general’s review of that investigation, and the “unmasking” of U.S. persons affiliated with the 2016 Trump campaign, transition team and the Trump administration.
The committee voted 8-6 to authorize the subpoenas.
The committee also authorized subpoenas for Sidney Blumenthal, former Obama chief of staff Denis McDonough, former FBI counsel Lisa Page, former FBI agent Joe Pientka, former ambassador to the United Nations Samantha Power, former FBI director of counterintelligence Bill Priestap, former White House national security adviser Susan Rice, former FBI agent Peter Strzok, former FBI lawyer Kevin Clinesmith – who pleaded guilty to making a false statement in the first criminal case arising from U.S. Attorney John Durham's review of the investigation into links between Russia and the 2016 Trump campaign – among others.
The committee further authorized subpoenas for “the production of all records” related to the FBI’s original Russia investigation and the Department of Justice Inspector General’s probe, as well as the process of “unmasking” for James Baker, former FBI Deputy Director Andrew McCabe, DOJ official Bruce Ohr, FBI case agent Steven Somma, former U.S. Ambassador to Russia John Teftt, former deputy assistant attorney general Tashina Gauhar; and Stefan Halper.
The committee, earlier this summer, authorized subpoenas for the majority of the individuals that were named. But on Wednesday, after a back-and-forth between Johnson and the top Democrat on the panel, the committee gave the final go ahead, leaving authority on timing and scheduling of depositions and issuance of subpoenas up to the chairman.
Republicans demand answers on Mueller team wiping phones, suggest 'anticipatory obstruction of justice' Congressional Republicans call the purported accidental 'wiping' an 'amazing coincidence'
Not my monkey, not my circus. I've never said that there weren't people committing criminal activity who "identify with the movement". Which in no way actually says they are members of that group.
What I've said is that there are also outside groups from the right included in those protests you refuse to recognize.
You also don't seem to recognize that Wray is also speaking out about just how hard Russia is working to get trump re-elected.
FBI director says antifa is an ideology, not an organization
WASHINGTON (AP) — FBI Director Chris Wray told lawmakers Thursday that antifa is an ideology, not an organization, delivering testimony that puts him at odds with President Donald Trump, who has said he would designate it a terror group.
Hours after the hearing, Trump took to Twitter to chastise his FBI director for his statements on antifa and on Russian election interference, two themes that dominated a congressional hearing on threats to the American homeland.
Referring to antifa, the president wrote: “And I look at them as a bunch of well funded ANARCHISTS & THUGS who are protected because the Comey/Mueller inspired FBI is simply unable, or unwilling, to find their funding source, and allows them to get away with “murder”. LAW & ORDER!”
The Twitter barbs thrust Wray again into a spotlight that he has spent three years trying to avoid after his predecessor, James Comey, became entangled in politics before being ultimately fired. Though Wray said as recently as Thursday that the FBI made unacceptable mistakes during its investigation into ties between the Trump campaign and Russia, Trump nonetheless has intermittently lashed out at Wray over the pace of fixing those problems and continues to regard his intelligence community with suspicion because of the Russia probe.
Wray did not dispute in his testimony Thursday that antifa activists were a serious concern, saying that antifa was a “real thing” and that the FBI had undertaken “any number of properly predicated investigations into what we would describe as violent anarchist extremists,” including into individuals who identify with antifa.
But, he said, “It’s not a group or an organization. It’s a movement or an ideology.”
That characterization contradicts the depiction from Trump, who in June singled out antifa — short for “anti-fascists” and an umbrella term for far-left-leaning militant groups — as responsible for the violence that followed George Floyd’s death. Trump tweeted that the U.S. would be designating antifa as a terrorist organization, even though such designations are historically reserved for foreign groups and antifa lacks the hierarchical structure of formal organizations.
The hearing before the House Homeland Security Committee — established after the Sept. 11 attacks to confront the threat of international terrorism — focused almost entirely on domestic matters, including violence by white supremacists as well as anti-government extremists. The topics underscored the shift of attention by law enforcement at a time of intense divisions and polarization inside the country.
But one area where foreign threats were addressed was in the presidential election and Russia’s attempts to interfere in the campaign.
Wray sought to make clear the scope of the threats the country faces while resisting lawmakers’ attempts to steer him into politically charged statements. When asked whether extremists on the left or the right posed the bigger threat, he pivoted instead to an answer about how solo actors, or so-called “lone wolves,” with easy access to weapons were a primary concern.
“We don’t really think of threats in terms of left, right, at the FBI. We’re focused on the violence, not the ideology,” he said later.
The FBI director said racially motivated violent extremists, such as white supremacists, have been responsible for the most lethal attacks in the U.S. in recent years. But this year the most lethal violence has come from anti-government activists, such as anarchists and militia-types, Wray said.
Wray also affirmed the intelligence community’s assessment of Russian interference in the November election, which he said was taking the form of foreign influence campaigns aimed at sowing discord and swaying public opinion as well as efforts to denigrate Democratic presidential nominee Joe Biden.
He said that the U.S. had not yet seen targeting of election infrastructure like in 2016, but efforts to sow doubt about the election’s integrity are a serious concern, he said.
“What concerns me the most is the steady drumbeat of misinformation and sort of amplification of smaller cyber intrusions,” Wray said. “I worry that they will contribute over time to a lack of confidence of American voters and citizens in the validity of their vote.”
“I think that would be a perception,” Wray added, “not a reality. I think Americans can and should have confidence in our election system and certainly in our democracy. But I worry that people will take on a feeling of futility because of all of the noise and confusion that’s generated.”
Trump has resisted the idea of Russian interference aimed at benefiting his campaign and has been eager, along with other administration officials, to talk about intelligence officials’ assessment that China prefers that Trump lose to Biden.
He responded on that front Thursday evening, tweeting: “But Chris, you don’t see any activity from China, even though it is a FAR greater threat than Russia, Russia, Russia. They will both, plus others, be able to interfere in our 2020 Election with our totally vulnerable Unsolicited (Counterfeit?) Ballot Scam. Check it out!”
Though intelligence officials said in a statement last month that China prefers that Trump lose, they appeared to stop short of accusing Beijing of directly interfering in the election in hopes of swaying the outcome.
7 Myths About Black Lives Matter That People Need To Stop Believing
HuffPost Casey Bond HuffPostSeptember 18, 2020
In the wake of police violence against George Floyd, Breonna Taylor, Jacob Blake and countless other Black men and women, the Black Lives Matter movement once again has the national spotlight. But with so much confusion and disinformation plaguing the conversation, not everyone understands what BLM is or how it works.
At best, myths about Black Lives Matter prevent people from giving their support. At worst, these myths actively detract from the movement and the anti-racism work its members have been doing.
“What some people might call myths, I don’t see them as myths ― I see them as tools by other groups used to do harm, stop change and maintain the status quo,” said Richard M. Cooper, a clinical assistant professor at Widener University whose work centers on race and social justice issues.
In other words, myths don’t just fall from the sky. They’re created. “They are a tool to provide misinformation, to incite fear, to get people to misunderstand an issue so that ...we don’t have to promote structural change,” Cooper said.
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With that said, here’s a look at the most harmful untruths surrounding the Black Lives Matter movement that need to end.
1. It’s new.
The phrase “Black lives matter” wasn’t really part of the modern conversation until the killing of Trayvon Martin, when writer and activist Alicia Garza included the phrase in a Facebook post and it was amplified by others. But the idea has been fought for over the past several hundred years.
“It’s really a continuation of the legacy of fighting for civil rights and social justice by people of color, particularly Black people.... It just happens to be called ‘Black Lives Matter’ now,” Cooper said.
He added that the only thing that’s really changed is the access activists have to platforms, particularly online, and the speed with which people can get that information. “But we are still talking about an ethnic group of people who have had to constantly and consistently fight for social agency and human rights in a society that continues to find ways to deny them of such,” Cooper said.
2. It’s disorganized.
There are three well-known founders of the Black Lives Matter organization, including Garza, but the general movement by that same name is a decentralized, grassroots effort that spans regions, demographics and mediums. For that reason, some critics say that it lacks leadership or a clear agenda. However, Cooper said this is largely a generational misunderstanding.
When it comes to the fight for civil rights, older generations were accustomed to seeing it unfold a certain way: A national or regional leader would serve as the spokesperson, organizing protests, sit-ins and other methods of demonstration, and lead the charge for change.
Black Lives Matter, on the other hand, exists in pockets across the country (and the globe). There’s no “right way” to get the message across, and members from hyperlocal chapters and other organizations rely on a variety of methods, including sustained protesting, social media campaigns, art and poetry.
The "Black lives matter" cry rises fully at protests now across the nation, including this one in Detroit on May 29, just days after the police killing of George Floyd in Minneapolis. (Photo: SETH HERALD via Getty Images) The "Black lives matter" cry rises fully at protests now across the nation, including this one in Detroit on May 29, just days after the police killing of George Floyd in Minneapolis. (Photo: SETH HERALD via Getty Images) According to Cooper, the criticism shows a lack of understanding about the particular features of the organizers and their strategies. “They have been very smart and organic,” Cooper said.
For an outsider, it might seem disorganized. But like demonstrations of the past, such as the Montgomery, Alabama, bus boycott in the 1950s, many strategic choices have been made that people of color don’t get enough credit for, Cooper said. “It shows a level of sophistication, actually, and an understanding of nuances and regional differences that this group has organized far better than past movements.”
3. It’s pro-violence.
About 93% of the 10,600-plus racial justice protests in the U.S. this summer have been peaceful. Those that did become violent involved aggression by police or by counterprotesters from extremist groups, researchers noted. But one-off instances of violence, looting and aggressive demonstrators have been conflated to suggest the Black Lives Matter movement employs and condones violence.
“It’s absurd because it’s the thing we’re protesting against,” said Michelle Saahene, co-founder of the activist group From Privilege to Progress. “People need to be able to differentiate between protesters and rioters, or protesters and opportunists.”
The unfortunate truth is that there will always be outliers who look for opportunities to cause chaos or harm during tense times. Looting and riots also occur because of hurricanes, sporting events and for many other terrible reasons. That doesn’t excuse the violence surrounding Black Lives Matter protests, by any means. But it is important to understand that the actions of these individuals are not aligned with the mission of the movement.
And sometimes the violence is strategic. The riots that took place in Minneapolis following the police killing of George Floyd, for example, were stoked by a white supremacist. Two people were killed and a medic was wounded by a white teenager with a semiautomatic rifle at a Black Lives Matter protest in Kenosha, Wisconsin, last month.
“Because there’s so much anti-Blackness, and white supremacy wants to be protected at all costs, people go out of their way to make it look like this movement is a violent movement,” Saahene said. “People really need to just think a little bit deeper... about what Black Lives Matter actually stands for and what they’re fighting against. Violence just doesn’t make any sense.”
4. It’s anti-police.
Law enforcement’s track record with Black Americans is troubling, to say the least. Not only are Black men and women disproportionately stopped, arrested and killed by police, many of these instances of violence occur following 911 calls for fairly routine issues.
But the Black Lives Matter movement is not about retaliation or eliminating police. Rather, it’s about examining the structure of law enforcement and how it can better serve communities, especially Black and brown ones.
Defunding the police is a big part of that goal. And that idea is scary to a lot of people, often because they don’t understand what it means. Defunding isn’t about abolishing law enforcement. “It’s to look at how police departments have been funded to do things that they shouldn’t necessarily have to do anyway and don’t necessarily do well, that would be better met by other groups who’ve been trained differently and provided better resources,” Cooper said.
For example, domestic disturbances or mental health crises could be responded to by social workers or medical professionals rather than armed police officers. “If you come to a situation with a weapon, there is a possibility, even with a particular police officer who may be well-intentioned, for something to escalate if for no other reason than you’re coming with a gun,” Cooper said. The goal would be to deescalate these types of situations without the need for force ― and hopefully save lives in the process.
5. It’s racist.
The phrase “Black lives matter” is not meant to be divisive. And yet it ruffles some (white) people’s feathers. Some even go so far as to claim that prioritizing Black lives is a form of reverse racism (which, by the way, is not a thing).
“Because our lives are treated as if they don’t matter, we have to specifically say that they do,” Saahene said. “It’s just a phrase to get people to understand that because you have black skin does not mean that you should be treated any differently and certainly doesn’t mean that your life should be cut short.”
“We’re not saying Black lives matter more, we’re saying they matter too,” added Melissa DePino, who co-founded From Privilege to Progress alongside Saahene. “It’s not about giving someone more and someone else less. It’s about creating a situation in which everybody has the same privileges.”
6. It’s a front for Democratic funding.
Saahene said that there is a misconception that the Black Lives Matter movement arose for the purpose of gaining political control.
One of the biggest contributors to this idea is likely a now-deleted Facebook post that claimed donations to Black Lives Matter were being funneled to a “Democrat Super PAC.”
The claims were based on a video circulated on social media that showed that attempts to make donations on the Black Lives Matter website redirected users to a website called ActBlue. The video then showed a page on OpenSecrets.org that tracked how ActBlue spends its money, highlighting several multimillion-dollar contributions to campaigns for Democratic presidential candidates such as Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) and former Vice President Joe Biden.
What is misunderstood in this video and the subsequent Facebook post is that ActBlue is simply a donation processing platform. Though it is popular among Democratic politicians and progressive nonprofits, it acts similarly to PayPal or other online payment systems. ActBlue doesn’t actually pocket any of the donations or decide how they’re allocated. A donation to Black Lives Matter goes to Black Lives Matter.
Though members of the movement do seek to change many of the laws and policies that harm Black people, Saahene said, it’s not a political group. “They’re activists like me.”
7. It’s on Black BLM supporters to fix racism.
Though it can be tempting for white people to lean on Black friends and colleagues to educate them about racism and point out where it’s happening, the truth is that it’s not their job to fix racism. There’s enough emotional labor to dealing with racism in everyday life; the last thing white allies need to do is add to that burden.
“When you’re doing anti-racism work, you can’t always have the victims doing the work,” Cooper said. “It’s those who have the advantages, structurally and historically, who need to be rolling up their sleeves.”
DePino agreed that racism is not a “Black problem” and it’s up to white people to learn history, acknowledge and understand their biases, and figure out how to stop causing harm, even if it’s unintentional. “That’s the work that we have to do. And we can’t just pay attention when someone gets murdered. We have to pay attention all the time and integrate it into our everyday life.”
The following is a facebook post by Simone Michelle If it matters, she is a Civil Rights attorney
Note: I added spacing to make it easier to read
Lessons learned from my NFL anti-racism post being shared over 500 times in the past 48 hours....
1) The most common argument is "don't bring politics into [insert: work, football, NFL, entertainment]" - to which I ask, when did racism become political? That implies Republicans are pro-racism and Democrats are anti-racism. And if that's the case, it's incredibly sad that in 2020 America we have a major political party that is openly the "pro-racism party." But the reality is, being opposed to racism, inequality, and oppression is not "political"... it's human, it's decent, it's American.
2) Another common argument is "they are disrespecting [insert: the flag, the country, the military]" and "I was in the military and kneeling/standing/silently protesting disrespects ME" - to which I say, thank you for your service, but many fought and died for our right to live in a country that allows freedom of speech and freedom of expression, and what is more American than standing against the evils of oppression, inequality and racism? This nation was founded upon the principles of freedom, equality, and opportunity, so every time we stand up and speak out against tyranny, oppression, and systemic racism, we are honoring this country, we are honoring our flag, we are bringing our nation one step closer to fulfilling its promise of liberty & justice for all.
3) One of my favorites is "if black people would stop committing crimes, resisting arrest, and simply follow the law like the rest of us, then police wouldn't kill them" - to which I say, Breonna Taylor was asleep in her own apartment when police shot her 8 times, Botham Jean was sitting on the couch in his own living room eating ice cream when he was shot and killed, Stephon Clark was standing in his grandmothers back yard holding a cell phone when the police shot him 20 times, Philando Castile was pulled over for a traffic stop and told the office upfront he had a concealed carry license before he was murdered in front of his 4 year old daughter, Atatiana Jefferson was shot through the window of her home in front of her 8 year old nephew. What were they doing wrong? Furthermore, if your knee jerk reaction to another black person being murdered by police is to immediately look for justification, search for a criminal history, seek out different footage from a different angle that provides some excuse for the cop's actions...you need to ask yourself "why do I feel compelled to justify the actions of a stranger just because we share the same skin color or the same profession or the same political affiliation?" Do some soul searching.
4) Unfortunately, after engaging in discussion/argument on dozens of threads with folks who shared my post, my takeaway is that there is no manner in which to protest racism that will ever be acceptable to racists.
"Don't riot and loot! Protest peacefully and quietly." "No, Kaepernick, don't kneel." "Well, no, Chiefs/Texans, don't stand either..." "Don't do it during the national anthem." "Well, no, don't do it after the anthem either..." "Don't be so loud about it." "But also, don't take a moment of silence..." "NBA, don't go on strike." "But when you do play, don't wear 'I can't breathe' shirts..." "Celebrities, don't discuss racism in award ceremony speeches." "Why can't you people be more like Martin Luther King!"...you mean the guy who was assassinated for leading the peaceful movement to end racism, whose peaceful protests were met with tear gas, fire hoses, police dogs, and unspeakable violence and bloodshed at the hands of the police?
When it comes to protesting racism, what you mean is: we don't want to hear about it, we don't want to see it, and we will not acknowledge its existence. "The loveliest trick of the Devil is to persuade you that he does not exist."
Once again, I encourage people to research the organization that is Black Lives Matter rather than just rely on what the media tells us about them. Please take the time to look at their demands and consider the consequences.
It is my belief that there is a huge difference between the phrase "Black Lives Matter" and the organization Black Lives Matter. I am not asking anyone to take my word for it. I'm just saying that it might be important to educate yourselves on the demands and practices of the Black Lives Matter organization.
The following is a facebook post by Simone Michelle If it matters, she is a Civil Rights attorney
Note: I added spacing to make it easier to read
Lessons learned from my NFL anti-racism post being shared over 500 times in the past 48 hours....
1) The most common argument is "don't bring politics into [insert: work, football, NFL, entertainment]" - to which I ask, when did racism become political? That implies Republicans are pro-racism and Democrats are anti-racism. And if that's the case, it's incredibly sad that in 2020 America we have a major political party that is openly the "pro-racism party." But the reality is, being opposed to racism, inequality, and oppression is not "political"... it's human, it's decent, it's American.
The problem is that's not how many people see it framed. Many on the right see the left as anti-white, not anti-racist. Some even only pro-black, but still not really anti-racist. Yet others see the left as anti-police or anti-law and order.
Sadly, most people see things in terms of themselves. By insisting on the rallying cry of "Black Lives Matter," many people are getting the message that it's not about them (as over 80% of the US population isn't African American.)
It sucks, but intended messages really don't matter (politically speaking). To many on the right, "Black Lives Matter" is a dog whistle.
(Jester) 7. It’s on Black BLM supporters to fix racism.
Though it can be tempting for white people to lean on Black friends and colleagues to educate them about racism and point out where it’s happening, the truth is that it’s not their job to fix racism. Uhh that's Bull, it' on everybody's job to fix racism, we have a situation where Black people think they can continue to be racist and this, the institutions, the schools, are trying to encourage it saying their racist behavior doesn't have consequences.
And the start of the 2nd paragraph is trying to define white people and tell them how to think, and behave, blame white people, that's Bull also.
There’s enough emotional labor to dealing with racism in everyday life; the last thing white allies need to do is add to that burden. Here we have another case of trying to tell white people what to do, and pretend it's not being racist!
“When you’re doing anti-racism work, you can’t always have the victims doing the work,”
It's Bull to say the victims are one side, that's so Racist! Cooper said. “It’s those who have the advantages, structurally and historically, who need to be rolling up their sleeves.” Yes exactly, Black people have the advantages, structurally and historically, BLM, Black Caucauss, NAACP, Afirmative Action, on and on and on, and they need rollup their sleeves and realize until they stop hating white people for the color of their skin they will continue to be racist, and think they are fighting racism,? How can they think that.
DePino agreed that racism is not a “Black problem” and it’s up to white people to learn history, acknowledge and understand their biases, and figure out how to stop causing harm, even if it’s unintentional.
Gimme me a Break, even people on the side of the writer, whoever wrote this comment have to agree that that is ALL society has done for 50 years+ and "causing harm", look what side is doing it, Look Around. Racism is not a black problem? Racism is a Black Problem, and a white problem, it's on everybody, and in my opinion, there is nothing more white people can do, So until Black People stop being racist, we won't have a return to what all of life could be. I agree we have to acknowledge the harm, from both sides. “That’s the work that we have to do. And we can’t just pay attention when someone gets murdered. We have to pay attention all the time and integrate it into our everyday life.” What! There's finaly a sentence I can agree with? The Huffington Post is Bull.
And people who have a problem with my view, have a problem with the word "All"in All Lives Matter.
Yet still some think they are fighting racism and not being racist, This is the major problem, the problem is people don't see.
That can apply to me too, that's why I'm looking so HARD at it from the other sides opinion.
---- Understand their biases and figure out how to stop causing harm? There is not a dang thing any white person can do along those lines that has not already been done.
Look at it, MLK day, People getting fired for saying the wrong word, No white people haven't, (All White People Have), spent 50 years already doing these things, but the industry, it's an industry, of making white people feel bad, is the bias and the causing of the harm, So if Black People, making a living in the industry of making white people feel bad because black people feel they are victims of racism, want to actually end the racism, then , they need to, Understand their biases and figure out how to stop causing harm.
And the biggest problem is, these (bulldoziers), like who wrote this article, are in charge of the education system in the United States.
Revealed: pro-Trump activists plotted violence ahead of Portland rallies Patriots Coalition members suggested political assassinations and said ‘laws will be broken, people will get hurt’, leaked chats show
Leaked chat logs show Portland-area pro-Trump activists planning and training for violence, sourcing arms and ammunition and even suggesting political assassinations ahead of a series of contentious rallies in the Oregon city, including one scheduled for this weekend.
The chats on the GroupMe app, shared with the Guardian by the antifascist group Eugene Antifa, show conversations between Oregon members of the Patriots Coalition growing more extreme as they discuss armed confrontations with leftwing Portland activists, and consume a steady diet of online disinformation about protests and wildfires.
At times, rightwing activists discuss acts of violence at recent, contentious protests, which in some cases they were recorded carrying out. At one point, David Willis, a felon currently being sued for his alleged role in an earlier episode of political violence, joins a discussion about the use of paintballs.
Where other members had previously suggested freezing the paintballs for maximum damage, Willis wrote: “They make glass breaker balls that are rubber coated metal. They also have pepper balls but they are about 3 dollars a ball. Don’t freeze paintballs it makes them wildly inaccurate” [sic.]
Willis did not immediately respond to voice and text messages sent to his listed cellphone number.
Another prolific poster is Mark Melchi, a 41-year-old Dallas, Oregon-based car restorer who claims to have served as a captain in the US army.
Melchi has been recorded leading an armed pro-Trump militia, “1776 2.0” into downtown confrontations in Portland, including on 22 August. At several points in the chat he proposes violence in advance of those confrontations, and appears to confess to prior acts committed in the company of his paramilitary group.
In advance of the 22 August protest, Melchi wrote: “It’s going to be bloody and most likely shooting, they’re definitely armed… so let’s make sure we have an organized direction of movement and direction of clearing or other Patriots will be caught in the possible cross fire. When [censored] hits the fan.”
He advised other members to ignore weapons statutes, writing, “I saw someone say bats, mace, and stun guns are illegal downtown. If you’re going to play by the books tomorrow night, we already lost. We are here to make a change, laws will be broken, people will get hurt… It’s lawlessness downtown, and people need to be prepared for bad things.”
Following these comments, several rightwing demonstrators were recorded using gas and bats on 22 August, where Melchi and his militia were also present.
In other remarks ahead of the day, Melchi draws on what he claims is his group’s history of traveling to multiple states to engage in violence at protests.
“My Group 1776 2.0. Has been fighting Antifa in Seattle, Portland, for months”, Melchi writes, adding “this won’t be a simple fist fight. People will get shot, stabbed and beat.”
He also claims police cooperation in interstate violence, writing “Yes, going after them at night is the solution… Like we do in other states, tactical ambushes at night while backing up the police are key. You get the leaders and the violent ones and the police are happy to shut their mouths and cameras.”
Melchi nevertheless recommends that members disguise themselves to avoid the consequences of homicide.
“We must be ready to defend with lethal response… Suggest wearing mask and nothing to identify you on Camera…to prevent any future prosecution.”
We are here to make a change, laws will be broken, people will get hurt Mark Melchi In response to detailed questions about these contributions, Melchi responded with an email that falsely suggested his comments might have been photoshopped, and concluded with direct threats.
Melchi wrote: “I suggest you don’t threaten combat veterans sweetheart, might get a little uncomfortable for ya big guy!”
Melchi’s sentiments in the chat logs were in keeping with fantasies of, and plans for, violence, which are constantly discussed by group members.
Although some members are connected with extremist groups or militias, on the whole they describe themselves as “patriots”, and they express no clear ideology beyond a hatred of the left, and a preparedness to use violence. The shared allegiances expressed in the group are mostly to the police, the United States and Donald Trump, a person whom some say they are prepared to kill for.
Ahead of 22 August, a user “Paige” says “I’m waiting for the presidential go to start open firing”.
Melchi, the militia leader, responds, “Well Saturday may be that go lol”.
Alex Newhouse, the digital research lead at the Center for Terrorism, Extremism, and Counterterrorism at the Middlebury Institute, said of the group that “the main mechanism that makes these communities so dangerous is the incessant desensitization to the idea of political violence”.
Newhouse said that the ideas expressed in the group were entrenched in “extreme nationalism – that a few strong men with guns can together take out an evil that is at once imagined as an existential threat, and pathetically weak”. Newhouse added that the group’s discussions “fit within a broader trend of rightwing extremists becoming more accelerationist over time”.
The chatlogs became fractious at the peak of Oregon’s recent wildfire emergency. While some members said they had gone to rural areas to “hunt” imagined antifa arsonists, others became concerned about the dangers.
As early as 9 September, the baseless idea that the fires were a coordinated arson attack was treated as settled fact, with Melchi writing: “People have officially died from these Antifa Fires. I’d shoot them on site” [sic], and another user, Dub, responding: “Yes sir if I see them they are getting dropped where they stand.”
When adverse consequences of vigilantism became evident, leadership attempted to bring the group back under control. After a member of the group reported that an associate had been arrested in Lane county for “holding [someone] at gunpoint”, the group’s administrator, who used the user name Patriot Coalition, wrote “STOP HOLDING PEOPLE AT GUN POINT- STOP PULLING YOUR WEAPONS… VIDEO- TAKE PICTURES AND CALL 911.”
Mary McCord is the legal director of the Institute for Constitutional Advocacy and Protection at Georgetown Law School, which on Wednesday released a series of fact sheets on anti-paramilitary laws in all 50 states.
Given details of the content of the chats, McCord said that “this is the kind of thing that might allow authorities to take action”, and that members of the group may “already be in violation of Oregon’s anti-paramilitary laws”.
The group also talked about coordinating at the rally with the Proud Boys, an extreme rightwing group. One user, identified as Bravo91 and a part of the group’s leadership, spoke of phone calls with the Proud Boys.
Along with antifascist demonstrators, Democratic politicians are also the target of violent fantasies in the chats. In particular, Portland’s mayor, Ted Wheeler, is demonized and nominated as a possible target for assassination by the group.
On 24 August, a user identified as “Trent-Medford” writes, “F*** wheeler… guess what soon as we are done with these punks. He’s next freakin coward !!!!!!”
User T Durden went further. In response to news that an alleged arsonist had been released on bail, and without encountering disagreement, they wrote: “Maybe we need to start taking care of the justice ourselves!”, adding, “Start with justice on our DA and then move on to the governor. Maybe by the time we get to the first judge, they will have changed their tunes.”
Oregon is filled with rural meth heads, trump hicks, and mega wealthy libertarian land owners/ranchers. You get out of the Willamete Valley, Portland to Eugene, and it’s a red state. They don’t like us. Lol
Oregon is filled with rural meth heads, trump hicks, and mega wealthy libertarian land owners/ranchers. You get out of the Willamete Valley, Portland to Eugene, and it’s a red state. They don’t like us. Lol
But one part I noticed....I love how it said that because Wheeler is getting harrassed, it must be right focused. Antifa HATE Wheeler and call him to resign almost daily. All established government, really/ Plus, you should see all the people that are getting arrested from the riots and come to your own conclusion of who is doing the vast majority of activity.
But it's 93% peaceful, so.......no big deal for either side.
'Her boyfriend shot a cop': Charles Barkley and Shaquille O'Neal are attacked on social media for defending police officers who killed Breonna Taylor and blaming her boyfriend who opened fire first
Cities like Portland and Seattle have become crap holes. The Dems have ruined those once-great cities for many citizens. Both have huge homeless populations due to the political decisions made by the Dems. Many citizens and the police are devastated. In one of videos I posted in the Homeless thread, there was a Town Hall Meeting where the city council members were laughing at the concerned citizens. Drug dealers go unpunished. The drug use among the homeless is off the charts. Feces in the streets. Robbery. Muggings. Tent camps. And the police are unable to do their job. Now, one of the candidates for Portland's mayor race has come out and said she supports Antifa. No wonder the rest of the state hates Portland.
Proud Boys Rally Has Portland in State of Emergency
(Reuters) - Thousands of supporters of the right-wing Proud Boys group were expected in Portland, Oregon on Saturday as police prepared for clashes in a city that has become the epicenter of sometimes deadly political violence in the run up to the Nov. 3 election.
Governor Kate Brown on Friday declared a weekend state of emergency for Oregon's biggest city, saying "white supremacist groups" were traveling from out of state to attend an event the Proud Boys say was organized to "end domestic terrorism."
Local and state leaders said in a letter to the community that many participants have openly discussed tactical operations and military-style formations and planned to cause chaos and violence while claiming to be acting in support of police.
"The event poses a physical danger to Portland residents, as clearly shown by the organizers' long track record of assaults, confrontations, and threats against elected officials and the citizenry of Portland," the letter said.
"We clearly state, once again, that law enforcement do not want or need any help from paramilitaries or vigilante groups."
President Donald Trump, who has made law and order a principal theme of his re-election bid, has singled out Portland as one of several Democratic-led cities he denounces as "anarchist jurisdictions" that should have federal funding cut.
His Democratic challenger, former Vice President Joe Biden, said Trump's rhetoric was stoking violence.
The self-declared "Western chauvinist" Proud Boys group has publicized the protest on Facebook for weeks, despite the social network's pledge to block such pages, according to images provided by the Tech Transparency Project seen by Reuters. Facebook said on Friday that it had removed the pages.
The pro-Trump, pro-gun rights Proud Boys publicly denounce violence, but members wearing trademark black and yellow polo shirts often brawl with left-wing opponents at rallies.
Portland has become a magnet for right-wing counter protesters following four months of anti-fascist and Black Lives Matter demonstrations against police violence and racism.
Left-right clashes have escalated across the United States since mid-August, a self-declared anti-fascist shooting dead a right-wing Patriot Prayer member in Portland on Aug. 29 after a teenage vigilante killed two protesters and wounded another in Kenosha, Wisconsin on Aug. 25.
Facebook and other online platforms such as Parler have buzzed with calls for protesters to arm themselves and wild talk of civil war, according to pages monitored by Reuters.
In their letter to the community, local and state leaders said that for three years Portland has had to endure rallies like the one planned for Saturday, with participants threatening "takeovers" of the city and touting their "combat unit" capacity.
The letter said paramilitary and alt-right activity was a challenge to Portland's inclusive and democratic values, but that city and state leaders would not be intimidated.
"Portland has a long and proud history of opposing far-right organizing and standing up for Black lives in the Rose City, and Saturday will be no different," the letter said.
Under Brown's emergency declaration, a state and local law enforcement task force is authorized to use "proportional force," including tear gas, to keep the peace.
The Proud Boys will gather at noon at Delta Park, about 6 miles north of downtown. Left-wing groups will hold a counter protest about 2 miles away. Police aim to keep them apart.
The men-only Proud Boys group describes itself as a fraternal organization that is "anti-racism" and "anti-political correctness."
Civil rights group The Southern Poverty Law Center (SPLC) classifies the Proud Boys as a hate group, citing its members' anti-Muslim and misogynist rhetoric.
Anyone believe A&E destroyed the footage? We have footage of commercials, news, shows from the 1950's, and they want us to believe that in the digital age of near limitless storage, they deleted it?
Glad they caught this scum. Too bad professional athletes don't protest the shootings of police officers. Btw...this is the same case where protestors tried blocking the ambulance from the hospital entrance.
Quote:
Convicted Felon Deonte Murray Charged In Compton Ambush Shooting Of 2 LA Deputies By CBSLA Staff September 30, 2020 at 1:55 pm
LOS ANGELES (CBSLA) – An ex-convict pleaded not guilty Wednesday to attempted murder and other charges in connection with the ambush shooting of two Los Angeles County Sheriff’s deputies earlier this month in Compton.
Surveillance video shows a gunman open fire on two L.A. County Sheriff’s deputies parked in a patrol vehicle in Compton, Calif. Sept. 12, 2020. (LASD)
Deonte Lee Murray, 36, pleaded not guilty to two counts each of attempted murder of a peace officer and possession of a firearm by a felon in connection with the Sept. 12 attack on the deputies, according to the Los Angeles County District Attorney’s Office.
He was previously charged Sept. 17 with one felony count each of carjacking, second-degree robbery and assault with a semi-automatic firearm involving a Sept. 1 carjacking in Compton, in which he allegedly shot a man in the leg with a high-powered rifle and stole his black Mercedes-Benz. He pleaded not guilty to those charges and has remained behind bars since his Sept. 15 arrest.
Two additional charges stemming from the earlier crime — attempted murder and possession of a firearm by a felon — have since been added, prosecutors said.
Murray’s bail was increased from just over $1 million to $6.15 million as a result of the new charges.
He is due back in court Nov. 17.
Sheriff Alex Villanueva and L.A. County District Attorney Jackie Lacey announced the arrest of Murray at a news conference Wednesday morning at LASD headquarters in downtown L.A.
Murray was arrested on Sept. 15, three days after the deputies were shot, but in connection with an unrelated carjacking and shooting which had occurred in Compton on Sept. 1, Lacey said. Forensic evidence later linked him to the shooting of the two deputies.
A ghost gun used in the shooting of the deputies was recovered by investigators, sheriff’s Capt. Kent Wegener told reporters.
Furthermore, Murray fled the scene of the deputies’ shooting in a black Mercedes Benz sedan, the same vehicle which Murray had carjacked on Sept. 1, Wegener revealed.
On the evening of Sept. 12, the two sheriff’s deputies who were shot in an unprovoked ambush while sitting in their patrol car in Compton.
The deputies were in their patrol vehicle parked outside the Metro Compton Blue Line station at Willowbrook Avenue and Elm Street when a lone suspect approached the front passenger side of the car and opened fire, wounding them both.
A standoff with a carjacking suspect in Lynwood, Calif., on Sept. 15, 2020. Authorities later identified the suspect as Deonte Murray, wanted in the ambush shooting of two Los Angeles County Sheriff’s deputies. (CBSLA)
The deputies, a 31-year-old mother and her 24-year-old male partner, were rushed to St. Francis Medical Center in critical condition. Both survived and have since been released from the hospital.
In the Sept. 1 carjacking, which occurred on Bradfield Avenue in Compton, Murray shot a man in the leg with a high powered rifle and stole his Mercedes, Wegener disclosed.
Prior to his capture, investigators suspected that Murray may have been responsible for both the carjacking and the deputies’ shooting.
“The carjacking suspect’s photograph, when compared to the suspect’s image in the surveillance video of the attempted murder, strengthened the possibility that he was involved,” Wagener said.
Murray was arrested Sept. 15 following a 10-hour standoff. At around 11:30 a.m. on Sept. 15, detectives located Murray, but he fled in a 2006 Toyota Solara. During the pursuit, he threw a pistol from the car.
He then ditched the car in the 3100 block of Carlin Avenue in Lynwood and ran. Law enforcement officers swarmed the area. Several hours later, just before 10 p.m., Murray was found hiding in some bushes and was apprehended, Wagener said.
Meanwhile, the stolen Mercedes Benz was also found nearby.
Wegener said that ballistic and forensic evidence from the scene of the deputy ambush linked it to the ghost gun which Murray had thrown from the car during the chase.
“It was determined through ballistic comparison, that the pistol recovered was the pistol used to shoot the deputies, additionally that pistol was conclusively linked through forensic testing to suspect Deonte Murray,” Wagener said Wednesday.
Murray’s ghost gun was loaded with eight rounds when it was recovered, Wagener said, and the gun is capable of holding 13. There were five shots fired at the two deputies on the night of the ambush.
Wagener defended the department’s decision not to immediately bring charges against Murray following his capture, even though detectives suspected he may have been responsible for the ambush shooting.
“At the time of the arrest of Deonte Murray on Sept. 15 following the vehicle pursuit…we had no evidence that he was responsible for the assault on our deputies,” Wagener said.
Wagener also added that publicly identifying him as a suspect may have compromised the investigation.
“There was insufficient evidence to support an arrest, much less a criminal filing for the charge of attempted murder on a peace officer and to label him in the media as the person responsible,” Wagener added. “Additionally, bringing the public focus on him at that point in the investigation may have influenced the pending witness interviews.”
Along with the charges in the ambush, Murray has also been charged with one count of attempted murder in connection with the Sept. 1 carjacking, along with second-degree robbery and assault with a semiautomatic firearm. He also faces allegations of association with a criminal street gang, discharging a rifle inflicting great bodily injury and personal use of a rifle.
Murray has an extensive criminal history that includes convictions for sales of narcotics, firearm possession by a felon, burglary and terrorist threats. He faces a maximum sentence of life in prison if convicted as charged.
Thanks to private donations, the reward for information leading to an arrest and conviction in the ambush was estimated at over $700,000.
It's weird how much I live in your head. You and 888 spend an inordinate amount of time replying to my posts even though I almost always ignore you both. I'm going back to ignoring you both, but your obsession is weird.
Btw----------it's telling that you completely ignored the shootings and the protestors blocking the ambulance and chose to call me out. Typical left hypocrisy.
Unlike you, I actually address you. You know, they way a man acts. You go around saying my name over and over to others while avoiding manning up to me or addressing me. I don't know what you call that.
And of course you missed the fact I liked your post. Just to clear that up for you, that means I'm glad they caught the guy.
And Jester..........I always thought highly of you, but damn man, you defend guys like Pit, 888, Perfect, Rocket, OCD, etc and trash posters on the right who are not nearly as biased as those guys.
Not defending anybody. They are big boys and can take care of themselves.
Just poking a little fun at the argument repeated bu multiple people that:
93% of protests are non violent - quoted from a study done by an independent and no. Partisan group that does this regularly.
Then the response of showing part of the 7% and claiming that of course they missed this one, without any evidence, then implying the protests therefore must be 100%
Then the mention that the right dies violent things
Then the response, no not really. But if they do it is an isolated incident so we can't count that so it. So in effect it is zero.
I have personal issue (actually i am sure I have many personal issues ) with taking an isolated event and using that to define an entire group. Whether that incident is good or bad, regardless of the group.
Kinda like saying, our new safety harrison helped that stranded motorist, he must be a good guy, he is an nfl football player, all nfl football players are good guys.
And before you say it, yes this applies to both the left and the right.
We've been on the board together long enough that you should know I take most thing light heartedly and jokingly. With the exception of medical stuff, especially medical misinformation.
Sure. She must be the most influencial person in the world. Amazing. 
) with taking an isolated event and using that to define an entire group. Whether that incident is good or bad, regardless of the group.